213: Battle is The Most Magnificent Competition in which a Human Can Indulge. Patton's General Orders.

0:00:00 - Opening: Patton's Speech to his troops. June 5th, 1944. 2:02:30 - Final thoughts and take-aways. 2:06:34 - How to Stay on THE PATH. 2:30:30 - Closing Gratitude. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jocko Willink?

  This is Jocko Podcast number 213 with Echo Charles and me Jocko Willink. Good evening, Echo. Good evening.

• 0:11Jocko Willink?

  Men.

• 0:14Jocko Willink?

  This stuff that some sources sling around about America wanting out of this war, not wanting to fight, is a crock of bullshit.

• 0:23Jocko Willink?

  Americans love to fight, traditionally. All Americans love the sting and clash of battle.

• 0:33Jocko Willink?

  You are here today for three reasons.

• 0:38Jocko Willink?

  First, because you are here to defend your homes and your loved ones. Second, you are here for your own self-respect, because you would not want to be anywhere else. Third, you are here because you are real men, and all real men like to fight.

• 0:59Jocko Willink?

  When you here, every one of you, were kids, you all admired the champion marble player, the fastest runner, the toughest boxer, the big league ball players, and the all-American football players.

• 1:14Jocko Willink?

  Americans love a winner. Americans will not tolerate a loser. Americans despise cowards.

• 1:25Jocko Willink?

  Americans play to win all of the time.

• 1:30Jocko Willink?

  I wouldn't give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed.

• 1:35Jocko Willink?

  That's why Americans have never lost, nor will ever lose a war, for the very idea of losing is hateful to an American.

• 1:46Jocko Willink?

  You are not all going to die. Only 2% of you right here today would die in major battle.

• 1:56Jocko Willink?

  Death must not be feared. Death in time comes to all men.

• 2:02Jocko Willink?

  Yes, every man is scared in his first battle. If he says he's not, he's a liar. Some men are cowards, but they fight the same as brave men, or they get the hell slammed out of them watching men fight who are just as scared as they are.

• 2:19Jocko Willink?

  The real hero is the man who fights even though he is scared. Some men get over their fright in a minute under fire. For some it takes an hour, for some it takes days. But a real man will never let his fear of death overpower his honor, his sense of duty to his country, and his innate manhood.

• 2:39Jocko Willink?

  Battle is the most magnificent competition in which a human being can indulge.

• 2:46Jocko Willink?

  It brings out all that is the best, and it removes all that is base. Americans pride themselves on being he-men, and they are he-men. Remember that the enemy is just as frightened as you are, and probably more so. They are not supermen.

• 3:07Jocko Willink?

  All through your army careers, you men have bitched about what you call "chicken shit drilling." That, like everything else in the army, has a definite purpose. That purpose is alertness. Alertness must be bred into every soldier. I don't give a fuck for a man who's not always on his toes. You men are veterans, or you wouldn't be here. You are ready for what's to come. A man must be alert at all times if he expects to stay alive. If you're not alert, sometime, a German son of an asshole bitch is gonna sneak up behind you and beat you to death with a sock full of shit.

• 3:49Jocko Willink?

  There are 400 neatly marked graves somewhere in Sicily, all because one man went to sleep on the job. But they're German graves because we caught the bastard asleep before they did.

• 4:02Jocko Willink?

  An army is a team.

• 4:06Jocko Willink?

  It lives, sleeps, eats, and fights as a team.

• 4:11Jocko Willink?

  This individual heroic stuff is pure horse shit.

• 4:16Jocko Willink?

  The bileous bastards who write that kind of stuff for the Saturday Evening Post don't know anything more about real fighting under fire than they do about fucking.

• 4:26Jocko Willink?

  We have the finest food, the finest equipment, the best spirit, and the best men in the world.

• 4:33Jocko Willink?

  Why, by God, I actually pity those poor sons of bitches we're going up against. By God, I do.

• 4:41Jocko Willink?

  My men don't surrender. I don't want to hear of any soldier under my command being captured unless he's been hit. Even if you are hit, you can still fight back. That's not just bullshit either. The kind of man that I want in my command is just like the lieutenant in Libya, who with a luger against his chest jerked off his helmet, swept the gun aside with one hand and busted the hell out of the kraut with his helmet. Then he jumped on the gun and went out and killed another German before they knew what the hell was coming off. And all that time, this man had a bullet through a lung. There was a real man.

• 5:21Jocko Willink?

  All of the heroes are not storybook combat fighters either. Every single man in this army plays a vital role. Don't ever let up. Don't ever think that your job is unimportant. Every man has a job to do and he must do it. Every man is a vital link in the great chain. What if every truck driver suddenly decided that he didn't like the wine of those shells overhead, turned yellow and jumped headlong into a ditch? The cowardly bastard would say, "Hell, they won't miss me, just one man in thousands." But what if every man thought that way? Where the hell would we be now? What would our country, our loved ones, our homes, even the world be like? No, goddammit, Americans don't think like that.

• 6:07Jocko Willink?

  Every man does his job. Every man serves the whole. Every department, every unit is important in the vast scheme of this war. The ordinance men are needed to supply the guns and machinery of war to keep us rolling. The quartermaster is needed to bring up food and clothes because where we are going, there isn't a hell of a lot to steal. Every last man on KP has a job to do. Even the one who heats our water to keep us from getting the GI shits.

• 6:35Jocko Willink?

  Each man must not think only of himself, but also of his buddy fighting beside him.

• 6:42Jocko Willink?

  We don't want yellow cowards in this army. They should be killed off like rats. If not, they will go home after this war and breed more cowards. The brave men will breed more brave men. Kill off the goddamn cowards and we will have a nation of brave men.

• 7:00Jocko Willink?

  One of the bravest men I ever saw was a fellow on top of a telegraph pole in the midst of a furious firefight in Tunisia. I stopped and asked what the hell he was doing up there at a time like that. He answered fixing the wire, sir. I asked, isn't it a little unhealthy right about now? He answered, yes, sir, but the goddamn wire has to be fixed. I asked, don't those planes straight from the road bother you? And he answered, no, sir, but you sure as hell do. Now, there was a real man, a real soldier. There was a man who devoted all he had to his duty, no matter how seemingly insignificant his duty might appear at the time, no matter how great the odds. And you should have seen those trucks on the road to Tunisia.

• 7:45Jocko Willink?

  Those drivers were magnificent. All day and all night, they rolled over those son of a bitchin' roads, never stopping, never faltering from their course with shells bursting all around them all the time.

• 7:59Jocko Willink?

  We got through on good old American guts. Many of those men drove for over 40 consecutive hours. These men weren't combat men, but they were soldiers with a job to do. They did it. And in one hell of a way, they did it.

• 8:16Jocko Willink?

  They were part of a team. Without team effort, without them, the fight would have been lost. All of the links in the chain pulled together and the chain became unbreakable.

• 8:31Jocko Willink?

  Don't forget, you men don't know that I'm here. No mention of that fact is to be made in any letters. The world is not supposed to know what the hell happened to me. I'm not supposed to be commanding this army. I'm not even supposed to be here in England.

• 8:46Jocko Willink?

  Let the first bastards to find out be the goddamn Germans. Someday I want to see them raise up on their piss soaked hind legs and howl, "Jesus Christ, it's the goddamn 3rd Army again and that son of a fucking bitch Patton."

• 9:01Jocko Willink?

  We want to get the hell over there. The quicker we clean up this goddamn mess, the quicker we can take a little jaunt against the purple pissing Japs and clean out their nests too. Before the goddamn Marines get all the credit. Sure, we want to go home. We want this war over with. The quickest way to get it over with is to get the bastards who started it. The quicker they are whipped, the quicker we can go home. The shortest way home is through Berlin and Tokyo. And when we get to Berlin, I am personally going to shoot that paper hanging son of a bitch Hitler. Just like I'd shoot a snake.

• 9:41Jocko Willink?

  When a man is lying in a shell hole, if he just stays there all day, a German will get to him eventually. The hell with that idea. The hell with taking it. My men don't dig foxholes, I don't want them to. Foxholes only slow up an offensive, keep moving. And don't give the enemy time to dig one either.

• 10:02Jocko Willink?

  We'll win this war, but we'll win it only by fighting and by showing the Germans that we got more guts than they have, or will ever have. We're not just going to shoot the sons of bitches, we're going to rip out their living goddamn guts and use them to grease the treads of our tanks. We're going to murder those lousy hun cocksuckers by the bushel fucking basket. War is a bloody killing business. You've got to spill their blood, or they will spill yours. Rip them up the belly, shoot them in the guts. When shells are hitting all around you and you wipe the dirt off your face and realize that instead of dirt, it's the blood and guts of what was once your best friend beside you, you'll know what to do.

• 10:47Jocko Willink?

  I don't want to get any messages saying I am holding my position. We are not holding a goddamn thing. Let the Germans do that. We are advancing constantly and we are not interested in holding on to anything except the enemy's balls. We are gonna twist his balls and kick the living shit out of him all the time. Our basic plan of operation is to advance and keep advancing regardless of whether we have to go over, under, or through the enemy. We're gonna go through him like crap through a goose, like shit through a tin horn.

• 11:19Jocko Willink?

  From time to time, there will be some complaints that we are pushing our people too hard.

• 11:25Jocko Willink?

  I don't give a good goddamn about such complaints. I believe in the old sound rule that an ounce of sweat will save a gallon of blood. The harder we push, the more Germans we will kill. The more Germans we kill, the fewer of our men will be killed. Pushing means fewer casualties. I want you all to remember that.

• 11:48Jocko Willink?

  There is one great thing that you men will all be able to say after this war is over and you are home once again. You will be thankful that 20 years from now, when you are sitting by the fireplace with your grandson on your knee, and he asks you what you did in the Great World War II, you won't have to cough, shift him to the other knee, and say, "Well, your granddaddy shoveled shit in Louisiana."

• 12:17Jocko Willink?

  No, sir. You can look him straight in the eye and say, "Son, your granddaddy rode with the Great Third Army and a son of a goddamn bitch named Georgie Patton."

• 12:32Jocko Willink?

  Alright, you sons of bitches. You all know how I feel.

• 12:38Jocko Willink?

  I'll be proud to lead you wonderful guys in battle anytime, anywhere.

• 12:46Jocko Willink?

  That is all.

• 12:55Jocko Willink?

  And that speech was delivered in June of 1944, clearly, by General George S. Patton in England, and he actually delivered that speech multiple times, and this is one version of it.

• 13:18Jocko Willink?

  George Patton, if you don't know who it is, Podcast 9, we covered his book, War as I Knew It. And you probably heard the shortened version of that speech

• 13:31Jocko Willink?

  in the movie Patton with George C. Scott, which is, which is good, not as good as the original, though. They actually, they actually sanitized the, the speech

• 13:43Jocko Willink?

  in the movie for Hollywood and for the American public, which is interesting.

• 13:50Jocko Willink?

  It's interesting that they, they sanitize what someone says in a war movie, even though the war movie is literally about killing, killing people, lots of people.

• 14:03Jocko Willink?

  But General Patton, he, he, he knew and understood the power of language,

• 14:10Jocko Willink?

  especially bad language.

• 14:13Jocko Willink?

  He, his nephew

• 14:16Jocko Willink?

  asked his son, this is another thing I read, that his nephew asked him about his use of profanity. And Patton said, "When I want my men to remember something important, to really make it stick, I give it to them double dirty. It may not sound nice to some bunch of little old ladies in the afternoon tea party, but it helps my soldiers to remember.

• 14:41Jocko Willink?

  You can't run an army without profanity. And it has to be eloquent profanity. An army without profanity couldn't fight its way out of a piss-soaked paper bag.

• 14:53Jocko Willink?

  As for the comments I make, sometimes I just, by God, get carried away with my own eloquence."

• 15:05Jocko Willink?

  So yeah, there's a time and place for profanity, uh, you know, I...

• 15:12Jocko Willink?

  When I was in the SEAL teams, I used to swear a lot when making a point. And when making a point, obviously, you want to make it stick. This is something, I think I've, I think I've talked about this before, but

• 15:27Jocko Willink?

  I would bring my son out to training events and I never swear in front of my family. Like even right now, I don't swear in front of my family. So when my son was probably, you know, like six years old, seven years old, and I'd bring him out to a training site to observe some training, you know, so he could start getting some, well, getting kind of inoculated to the loud noises, machine gun fire, teaching him this, the fundamentals of tactics and stuff. So when he'd come out and watch training and then I would be debriefing.

• 16:01Jocko Willink?

  And you know, it would just be F-bomb, F-bomb, sentence, half-sentence, F-bomb, F-bomb. I remember the first time he saw me debrief like that and it's also the first time he probably saw me, you know, uh, I don't want to use the word emotional, but he's the first time he saw real intensity from me. Cause you're trying to make a point to the guys and

• 16:22Jocko Willink?

  I will freely say that at the time I was, I would get really in the zone because I'm thinking that the guys that I'm training, I want them to absorb the message. Cause I don't want them to go overseas and get killed. So, uh, you know, there's some levels of intensity that would, uh, that would happen. So, yeah, sometimes the, the language comes out and should have an impact. If you use it too much, obviously loses its impact. So,

• 16:56Jocko Willink?

  like I said, we covered Patton's book, Wars, I Knew It, a long time ago, but.

• 17:03Jocko Willink?

  Patton didn't just write that book. He actually was a fairly prolific writer.

• 17:10Jocko Willink?

  And some of what he wrote wasn't meant to be literature. It was things like general instructions to his troops. So I got some of those for us to look at. Just because they're, you know, they're good stuff. So

• 17:29Jocko Willink?

  this is one. There's two that we're going to go over today. This is from headquarters, third United States Army. 6th March 1944, subject, letter of instruction, letter of instruction, number one, to corps, division, and separate unit commanders. So this is one that's written to the commanders of the subordinate units underneath Patton. Starts off with general.

• 17:54Jocko Willink?

  "This letter will orient you, officers of higher echelons in the principles of command, combat procedure, and administration which obtain in this army, and will guide you in the conduct of your several commands." Part number two, command. "Leadership, full duty. Each, in his appropriate sphere, will lead in person. Any commander who fails to obtain his objective and who is not dead or severely wounded has not done his full duty." That's, by the way, just how he's kicking this thing off.

• 18:29Jocko Willink?

  And we've definitely talked about that one before, but there you go. Welcome to working for George Patton. If you fail to obtain your objective and you're not dead or severely wounded, then you haven't done your duty. So that's where, that's the, that's the basis on which we're building this stuff. Continues, "Visits to the front." "The commanding general or his chief of staff, never both at once, and one member of each of the general staff sections should visit the front daily. To save duplication, the chief of staff will designate the sector each is to visit. The function of these staff officers is to observe, not to meddle."

• 19:12Jocko Willink?

  Very important. Don't go up there and start trying to make little changes. No, you're up there to observe. Continuing, in addition to their own specialty, they must observe and report anything of military importance. Remember too, that your primary mission as a leader is to see with your own eyes. And to be seen by the troops while engaged in personal reconnaissance. So, think about that. Not just see what's going on, you want them to see you too. That you're out there with the troops.

• 19:47Jocko Willink?

  Next section is execution. In carrying out a mission. The promulgation of the order represents not over 10% of your responsibility.

• 19:58Jocko Willink?

  The remaining 90% consists of assuring by means of personal supervision on the ground. By yourself and your staff, proper and vigorous execution. How important is that? The, the, the passing of the order is 10% of your duties. The other 90% is making sure it gets done. You don't hear that very often. Hey, I already told them what to do. That's all, that's, you know, I passed the word, man. I passed the word. Not my fault, not my problem. Wrong answer.

• 20:31Speaker 01

  I can only say it.

• 20:32Jocko Willink?

  That's actually 90% of your problem. Go ahead.

• 20:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, one that I've maybe used, I don't know, maybe heard, I don't know. It's like, hey, I can only say it so many times, you know.

• 20:43Jocko Willink?

  Oh yeah, that's a good one. That's a good one. You know, I've told them a bunch of times. I sent the email.

• 20:51Jocko Willink?

  I sent the email. No, 10% is of your responsibility is passing the information. 90% is assuring by means of personal supervision on the ground. Vigorous, proper and vigorous execution. Think about that next time you, you, you put out the word and then you kick back into your chair. A wrong answer. Uh, next here. Staff conferences. I'm gonna abbreviate this thing. Daily at the earliest possible moment that the G2 and G3 can get their maps posted. So G2 and G3, those are the, that's intel and operations.

• 21:29Jocko Willink?

  As soon as they can get their maps posted, a staff conference will be held, attended by the commanding general, chief of staff, and the heads of all general staff sections, and he goes through who those are. Then the reason I highlighted this part, because I'm not reading this whole thing, but

• 21:46Jocko Willink?

  he says, "Any person present with a statement to make will do so briefly." Check. You're not in there to talk. You're not in there to hear yourself talk. You're not in there so that the commanding general, the boss, the CEO, gets to see that you're in there. You said something smart. Actually, just be quiet. And if you have to say something, make it brief. It's supposed to be a brief. That's why it's called a brief.

• 22:11Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, and just to mention that again, I'm not reading this entire thing, but we're reading some big chunks of it.

• 22:18Jocko Willink?

  It talks about rest periods. Okay, rest periods. And we know there's big controversy from my world when it comes to rest. Because once a day, no, that's probably inaccurate, probably between one and three times a day, someone via various social media, messaging, whatever, you know, says to me, you know, "Get more rest," and "You don't sleep enough," and all these things. Otherwise, you know, my world is going to turn into a disaster, which, you know, waiting on that one.

• 23:03Jocko Willink?

  So here's what, but, and you know what I always say, of course, it's it's in the book Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual. I wrote a book and said, "You need to get sleep. Sleep is important. Without sleep, all these bad things happen." I know this, and I propagate it all the time. Sleep. You know, someone says, "You're telling people not to sleep." No, actually, I tell people to sleep all the time. You need to sleep to perform optimally. You need to sleep. Different people need different amounts of sleep. However much sleep you need, get it. It's fine. It's great. I support it. So does Patton. Here we go. Rest periods. Staff, personnel, commissioned and enlisted who do not rest do not last. All sections must run a duty roster and enforce compliance. The intensity of staff operations during battle is periodic.

• 23:45Jocko Willink?

  At the Army and Corps levels, the busiest times are the period from one to three hours after daylight and from three to five hours after dark. In the lower echelons and in the administrative and supply staffs, the time period is different, but just as definite. When the need arises, everyone, when the need arises, everyone must work all the time. But these emergencies are not frequent. Unfatigued men last longer and work better at high pressure. So, like I say, like I tell people all the time, get sleep. Not bad for you.

• 24:22Jocko Willink?

  Do you need to sleep until nine? No, you don't.

• 24:26Jocko Willink?

  Well, some people do.

• 24:27Speaker 01

  Depends when you go to sleep.

• 24:28Jocko Willink?

  I didn't receive a return text from you today until, I'm thinking it was around 10.

• 24:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:34Jocko Willink?

  Am I right or wrong?

• 24:35Speaker 01

  Uh, well, you know, you're probably right. I don't have those records.

• 24:38Jocko Willink?

  Uh, we can check. So, is that what time you woke up, just out of curiosity?

• 24:43Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 24:43Jocko Willink?

  Do you feel well rested right now, ready to perform?

• 24:45Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 24:46Jocko Willink?

  Ready to bring your A-game?

• 24:47Speaker 01

  Yes, sir, I do. See, it's a long story.

• 24:49Jocko Willink?

  And it's worth it.

• 24:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, okay.

• 24:50Jocko Willink?

  It's worth it. Were you up late la- last night watching the fights?

• 24:53Speaker 01

  No. I went to sleep super early.

• 24:55Jocko Willink?

  Connor's fight was only 40 seconds long.

• 24:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:58Jocko Willink?

  You could have been in bed at, we're talking nine.

• 25:02Speaker 01

  I was. I was going to bed and I ju- like literally going to bed when I seen the results come through.

• 25:10Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 25:10Speaker 01

  But, I'm not used to going to sleep that early, so I ended up waking up in the middle of the night, not being able to go back to sleep, and then you, then you hit the, the rest of it, you know? Woke up at 10.

• 25:21Jocko Willink?

  Okay, so, rest is important. There you go. It's an order from Patton that you need to get rest.

• 25:28Jocko Willink?

  Next section is location of command posts.

• 25:34Jocko Willink?

  The farther forward, the farther forward the command posts are located, the less time is wasted in driving to and from the front. The ideal situation would be for the army command post to be within one half hour's drive in a command post in reconnaissance car of the division command post. The driving time to the front and from the command post, the driving time to the front from the command post of the lower units should be correspondingly shorter. Much time and wire saved if command posts of higher units are at or near one of the command posts of the next lower echelon. So, and why, why am I talking about that? Cause the reason is, think about how important communication is between the senior leadership and the frontline troops.

• 26:17Jocko Willink?

  And when you have big separation, now what's nice these days, and he goes into a bunch of stuff talking about, when he's talking about wire versus radio. Do you know what, do you know what that means? They used to actually string out wire. So if you had a forward post two miles from me, we would string wire between the two of us so we could talk.

• 26:34Speaker 01

  Like phone wire.

• 26:35Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, like phone wire, like little phone wire. And in that opening speech, when he's talking about a guy in Tunisia putting wire up on a telephone, that's what he's talking about. Because radios at that time were way less, way less reliable than they are now. So now we can overcome a lot of this with technology, but just showing the importance of, and by the way, he's not even talking about wire. He's talking about being able to go there and see what's happening. So there's ways to overcome this. I guess my point in, in calling this out is showing how important visible leadership is, right? How important face to face is from a leadership perspective.

• 27:19Jocko Willink?

  Combat procedure, next section, maps. We are too prone to believe that we acquire merit solely through the study of maps in the safe seclusion of a command post. Maps are necessary in order to see the whole panorama of battle and to permit intelligent planning. Further, and this is very important, a study of the map will indicate where critical situations exist or, or are apt to develop. And so indicate where the commander should be. In the higher echelons, a layered map of the whole theater is reasonable to scale, showing roads, railways, streams, talents, more useful than a large scale map cluttered up with the ground force. So the reason that I, I put this in here is.

• 28:04Jocko Willink?

  Looking visibly visually at something real. This is a little bit of a, a little bit of a, a, a, a, just, just an eye opener, right? You have, everything's virtual now, right? We can look at virtual charts, we can see virtual diagrams, we can see virtual spreadsheets, we can see market data. And, and I get it. And there's, there's many, much of the time, virtual data is, has superior, some superior qualities of it. Cause you can manipulate it, you can watch it move, you can dig into it, you can click on the link, right?

• 28:46Jocko Willink?

  And see where the source of the data is, and all that stuff is good. All I'm saying, and the only reason I bring this up is because sometimes the, the, the physical map, the physical chart, the physical spreadsheet that you can look at, that you can put up on a wall and say, "Let's talk through this." Sometimes, and, and part of this, I think is just my personality, my, the way that I, you know how people have different types of learning, right?

• 29:18Jocko Willink?

  My, uh, the way my brain works sometimes to look at something that's actually physically there, sometimes works better for me than the virtual thing that I'm looking at on a screen. Just throwing that out there.

• 29:34Speaker 01

  Makes sense.

• 29:35Jocko Willink?

  I don't know if you feel that way.

• 29:38Speaker 01

  Well, I feel like if, you know, when you're talking about a map or even like a diagram, if I have it physically in front of me and, and then, and you, and then you're obviously physically in front of me. So we're both physically there, we can kind of interact with it in the physical world. So I can point here and maybe even mark it here with a pencil.

• 29:56Jocko Willink?

  Which you can do, that's what I'm saying, like nowadays, you can have a, an iPad, right? And we could be marking that things up. So there's, there's some closure, the gap is getting closed on this.

• 30:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, the iPads, it's close, but not really, because iPad's only this big.

• 30:12Jocko Willink?

  True.

• 30:12Speaker 01

  And it's like when you write on it, it's, it, it, there's that, what do you call it, like a barrier? Like at the very least, psychological barrier between the actual document, you know? And, and us, it feels like it.

• 30:27Speaker 01

  Even though you're marking on, you know, it's a touchscreen, it feels like.

• 30:31Jocko Willink?

  Here's one that this is a real simple, straightforward one. The difference between a physical checklist on a piece of paper or on a whiteboard compared to, there's about five million apps, including native apps to your phone that do checklist. I personally think that I find physical lists in a notebook or on a whiteboard better. What do you think?

• 31:02Speaker 01

  I think it's funny how you use the expression native apps.

• 31:06Jocko Willink?

  Was that correct?

• 31:06Speaker 01

  It's advanced.

• 31:07Jocko Willink?

  Was that correct?

• 31:08Speaker 01

  That's correct.

• 31:08Jocko Willink?

  That's what they are, right? Like, Apple has.

• 31:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, it comes with it.

• 31:10Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, it comes with it.

• 31:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, that's good, man, that's good.

• 31:13Jocko Willink?

  See, I've been paying attention over here.

• 31:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, uh, yeah, I could dig it.

• 31:18Jocko Willink?

  They should contact me, actually.

• 31:20Speaker 01

  Sure, of course, they probably should.

• 31:22Jocko Willink?

  They should, and I could, I could dial that app in where it would be squared away.

• 31:27Speaker 01

  Very tactile, right? That's what's going right when you can touch it.

• 31:30Jocko Willink?

  But also, the, one of the problems is, one of the, one of the disadvantages of those kind of lists is because things are hidden, right? Like, you, you have to open that list, right? So, you can't see it. So, you, you look at a project and you don't really even see the depth of the project. Whereas if you have like a physical list that you're looking at, you say, oh, that project is gonna, is gonna take some labor.

• 31:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, I feel it for sure. I think I'm kind of used to the apps, though, as far as like notes and whatever. I'm used to it. So, I think, like anything, the more you get used to it, the more you're like, oh, I like this or whatever.

• 32:03Jocko Willink?

  I use the notes one.

• 32:07Jocko Willink?

  So easy, like, when, when in the SEAL teams, PowerPoint just started to just run everything. Everything was briefed on PowerPoint. And that is one time when you would look, when you'd bring the guys around to look at a map, or bring the guys around to look at an image that's on, that you can draw on, so much clearer than just everyone sitting there, there's the separation, I guess you called it, what'd you call it? A virtual separation? There's some separation.

• 32:36Speaker 01

  Barrier.

• 32:36Jocko Willink?

  Barrier. When you'd actually pull out a, a map and say, here's the route, you'd be like drawing it on there. And you'd say, okay, there's a hill over here. And people, I don't know, people seem to get it better. Same thing with, uh, something called the force list.

• 32:53Jocko Willink?

  Which sounds really cool, but all it means is this is who's going on this mission.

• 32:56Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 32:56Jocko Willink?

  And also where they're sitting in the vehicles. The virtual force list almost always sucked. It was almost always like slightly wrong and that people wouldn't know where they but we would do on a magnet board. And everybody had their own magnet. I still have my magnet for my first deployment. It says it's my magnet says just says Jaco, it's yellow. Well, it's the magnets brown and then it says Jaco and it's off center. And like it looks like somebody did it in like five minutes, not like this big, uh, high speed thing, right? No, it's this really kind of rudimentary magnet says Jaco.

• 33:31Speaker 01

  So when you get your magnet, that's just that's your magnet for the whole trip.

• 33:35Jocko Willink?

  I'm making it into a bigger deal than it is, but but on that first deployment to Iraq, that was my magnet. When I left, I took the magnet with me.

• 33:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:45Jocko Willink?

  Cause there's some good memories with the magnet, right? You see that thing in the, cause you have on the, on the dry erase board, the magnetic dry erase board, you have outlines of the vehicles and then you just put your, you know, you put your magnet gets put in a position. You look at the board, you know where you're at, right?

• 34:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:01Jocko Willink?

  And most of the time, you know, I was in vehicle two in the vehicle commander seat. That's where I was most of the time, depending on what we were doing. Sometimes I would be, if I was like the assault force commander, I might be in vehicle three, but whatever. But that little magnet, you know where it is right now?

• 34:17Speaker 01

  On your refrigerator.

• 34:18Jocko Willink?

  Yes, it is. So when I look, go to the refrigerator, I remember.

• 34:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:22Jocko Willink?

  That magnet and one of my buddies named Johnny. Like one day he sent me a picture of his magnet.

• 34:28Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 34:29Jocko Willink?

  And I sent him a picture of mine back.

• 34:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, wait, what could so, okay, so you're it's a mag, it's just a circle.

• 34:34Jocko Willink?

  No, it's not a circle, it's a square, it's a rectangle.

• 34:37Speaker 01

  But it's a, but is it like just a raw magnet though?

• 34:40Jocko Willink?

  It's a raw magnet, a raw magnet with, with, with what's it called? You ever seen those little machines where you make a label? A label making machine, label maker. So there's a little yellow label and the, the magnet just says Jaco. Boom, there it is. And it's off center, that's what makes me, that's what's kind of funny. It's not like this special thing. I was like, hey, here. Boom, done.

• 35:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, but it's like one of the, for lack of better terms, or for lack of better term, one of the trinkets of the missions, you know? It's like one of the memorabilia or whatever.

• 35:13Jocko Willink?

  It might be. I don't know, I'd have to think of this. I'm sure there's other trinkets, but that is the one thing that I go, oh yeah, yeah, those are some good times right there.

• 35:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, every once in a while you get those kind, right? Something that's of use, not major massive use, but it's like an essential part of the whole.

• 35:29Jocko Willink?

  When we made Task Unit Bruiser, the first thing I was, okay, guys, we need magnets and you know, everyone's like thinking, uh, whatever. We'll just use the computer and all that stuff and it's so much harder. Imagine this, you've got forty people, forty little names. And you're dragging them around on PowerPoint and so what you deleted one by accident, where'd that one go? It's from a different. The magnets, like you have a space on the magnet board. Oh, these guys aren't going on the mission. They're they're over here. But you can see them and then you say, wait, we need another machine gunner. Oh, cool. Who's the machine gunner? Smith's machine gunner. Put them in in the turret. Boom, we're good.

• 36:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:04Jocko Willink?

  It the physical representation is important.

• 36:07Speaker 01

  Yep. Yeah, I know what it is. I know what it is. So, okay, so I.

• 36:13Speaker 01

  Can you know Photoshop is?

• 36:15Jocko Willink?

  I do know what it is. It's not a native app, though.

• 36:17Speaker 01

  No, sir, it is not. So that's the aftermarket one for sure. So the, okay, so Photoshop is like. Really, when you when you get used to it, it's like, oh, it's simple, you know, but here's the here's the difference. And I just distilled it down. It's the interface. The interface, that's what makes it like, that's the barrier. Even if it's a simple interface like PowerPoint, you know, there's still an interface. You gotta learn how to use PowerPoint, right? So even after you learn how to use PowerPoint, you still have to interface with the the system.

• 36:46Jocko Willink?

  You do.

• 36:46Speaker 01

  You know, so but with a physical thing, there is no interface. There's just boom, boom, we're doing it. Look, if I want this little. Jaco magnet to physically move to the front seat, watch me physically move them to the front seat.

• 36:56Jocko Willink?

  There's no interface that happens.

• 36:58Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 36:58Jocko Willink?

  It's just reality.

• 36:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, so the feedback is instant.

• 37:01Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Big, it was kind of a big deal. I remember, uh, I have to reconfirm this with Leif.

• 37:09Jocko Willink?

  But there was, I wouldn't say resistance, but questions, you know? Cause I think I went out and just bought magnets for tasking a bruiser. Like, okay, here's the magnet, here's the magnet. The more, the magnet boards were expensive too. I wanna say they were, I wanna say a big magnet board costs over a hundred dollars.

• 37:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:27Jocko Willink?

  Which is a lot of money when you're in the Navy and you got three kids, like, like a hundred bucks is no joke.

• 37:33Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, for just a board.

• 37:35Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, but well worth every penny.

• 37:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:38Jocko Willink?

  Every penny.

• 37:39Speaker 01

  So do you, cause you like to read physical books too.

• 37:43Jocko Willink?

  I do.

• 37:44Speaker 01

  Right, and I'm not saying necessarily compared to Audible, but like I use the Kindle, right? There's a little interface going on right there too. But technically, it's quicker, there's less physical work to use a Kindle than a book.

• 37:58Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I, I think what would have to happen for me is I would have to use a Kindle or whatever uh, digital reader thing until I learn the interface. Cause right now, I, I can't stand those things.

• 38:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, well I do on the phone, the Kindle app or whatever, but the, yeah, yeah, it's the same thing. Kindle, actually I think the actual Kindle is bigger, so it's better.

• 38:19Jocko Willink?

  You know what's interesting, what my kids do, uh, for books for, for school and whatnot? They read the book as they listen to the audiobook.

• 38:26Speaker 01

  Huh.

• 38:26Jocko Willink?

  Which is kind of interesting.

• 38:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:28Jocko Willink?

  You know what? I did that one time. You know what book I did it for? Fields of Fire by James Webb.

• 38:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:35Jocko Willink?

  I was listening to it and reading it.

• 38:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:39Jocko Willink?

  And I don't know why, I don't know why I decided to do that.

• 38:43Jocko Willink?

  Maybe because it was a fiction book? I don't know, but for some reason, that's what I did.

• 38:48Speaker 01

  Well, there's all kinds of like different reading methods, you know, there's all these methods like to read, whether it be faster, improve comprehension, you know, all this way. And one of them is to skim, like rudimentary skim, the kind of like, literally like three seconds per page, maybe even one second per page.

• 39:05Jocko Willink?

  Okay, what does that do?

• 39:06Speaker 01

  Skim the whole thing first and it, and it creates this idea of what everything's about.

• 39:11Jocko Willink?

  So you skim it first, then you're gonna go back.

• 39:12Speaker 01

  Then you read, yeah. And you read it's kinda.

• 39:14Jocko Willink?

  I was gonna really throw that idea out the window.

• 39:17Speaker 01

  Just skim it and then walk out the door?

• 39:19Jocko Willink?

  Actually, so when I get a book, a potential book for the podcast, I will say I do some of that.

• 39:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:25Jocko Willink?

  I'll be looking through it, cause, cause you know, the book for the podcast is gonna have to be a good book.

• 39:30Speaker 01

  Right.

• 39:30Jocko Willink?

  And I gotta make sure that fits in with the podcasts.

• 39:34Speaker 01

  Right.

• 39:35Jocko Willink?

  So I'll skim it and look for scenes.

• 39:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:38Jocko Willink?

  That I go, oh, that's a good one. And then you know what I do is I read the end. As jacked up as that is spoiler.

• 39:43Speaker 01

  Spoiler.

• 39:44Jocko Willink?

  I spoiler the book for myself, even though most of the time you kind of know what's gonna happen. I mean, it's a war book. It's like, oh, it's World War Two. Cool. We know what's gonna happen.

• 39:51Speaker 01

  Right.

• 39:52Jocko Willink?

  If the first person person that's writing it, they live to write the book. So you know they're alive.

• 39:56Speaker 01

  Right. Yeah.

• 39:57Jocko Willink?

  Most of the time, there's been a few where the person, you know, this is recovered from them or whatever. But yeah, so I skim through them and then I find the information, but I can't. I haven't been able to prep for a podcast virtually yet. All of them have been, even though there was one where I was traveling and I decided I was gonna do something that I had it on PDF. And I went through the whole thing and like I outlined it and stuff while virtually. And then when I got home, I printed it out and brought it in. Yeah.

• 40:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, there must be something with the like the relationship between, you know, the the material, the physical material in your eyeballs or something.

• 40:37Jocko Willink?

  So let's just say this, from a leadership perspective, here's the takeaway.

• 40:42Jocko Willink?

  If the virtual methodology is not working, perhaps try a physical version. That's gonna be my suggestion after all this, after all this assessment of General Patton's words. Check. All right.

• 41:01Jocko Willink?

  Now we get to plans. And what's cool about this, his plans, his sections, so like the last sections, a couple paragraphs long, the section before that, a couple paragraphs long. The section about planning, arguably the most important section to be given by the commander of how we're gonna plan. This is the one of the shortest sections here. Plans. Plans must be simple and flexible.

• 41:24Jocko Willink?

  I, I got that, I utilized that right there so much, it was ridiculous. And it was so powerful to be able to say, hey, look, because, because in the SEAL teams, they would lean towards wanting, and not just in SEAL teams, they, people do this in business all the time, they want to make, they want to make plans ultra detailed, because they think the more detail they put in the plan, the better the plan will be executed. That's actually wrong. The more detail you put in the plan, look, you need to have some level of deal, but if you go overboard with the detail, now you're working on things that don't matter. You're trying to do things in a way that don't matter. You can't do that. So, that's how he starts out, plans must be simple and flexible.

• 42:06Jocko Willink?

  Cause nothing's going to go the way you expect it to go. And then he says this, actually, they only form a datum plane from which you build as necessity directs or opportunity offers.

• 42:19Jocko Willink?

  So, the plan is actually, is barely anything. It's like, hey, this is the general idea, and then we'll make adjustments as necessity directs or as we have opportunities.

• 42:30Jocko Willink?

  They should be made by the people who are going to execute them. Right? Incredible. Once again, these are things that I did, and I, when I read that, I go, man, I'm so lucky that I did that. Because to force a plan down someone's throat, or to make, or even worse, take the problem and multiply it exponentially, force the plan down on the people below you, that is very detailed and doesn't have any flexibility. That's just failure. I'd get to see that, man, I'd get to see some, some task unit commander coming through training and, and look, the guy's not a bad human, guy actually wants to good, in fact,

• 43:12Jocko Willink?

  wanting to do a good job can drive you to try and make a more detailed plan and force it down onto your people. That, that's not necessarily a person that's a bad leader, they just haven't learned the lesson yet. That might be a person that's super engaged, wants to do a great job, overachiever, hey, look, I know how to do this, puts together this highly detailed plan, that's not a good call, man. There's nothing against the person, but what you have to do with that person is, show them the light, right? You gotta bring them to the light. Okay, so then he goes through, he goes through a section on reconnaissance. You can never have too much reconnaissance. Use every means available before, during, and after battle. Reports must be facts, not opinions.

• 43:57Jocko Willink?

  Negative as well as positive. Do not believe intercepts blindly. Cross check. Sometimes messages are sent out to be intercepted. So a bunch of good little things to think about there. Reports must not, must be facts, not opinions. There's a, a term that you use in the military. It's appears to be. A T B. So you'd see a person holding something. You, you're pretty sure it's a weapon, but you don't know. And you say appears to be a weapon. It appears to be a weapon. Or you say, you know, people moving into a, in a, appears to be a tactical position. Right? So it's just one of those little things. Because there's a huge difference between me saying

• 44:42Jocko Willink?

  they were moving weapons into the building, or they were moving what appeared to be weapons in the building.

• 44:47Speaker 01

  Right? Yeah, it's like, it's not an established fact.

• 44:50Jocko Willink?

  Not an established fact. And if you remember when we talked about, uh, the Me'li massacre, that's one of those things where the difference between appears to be and this is, could be, can kind of cause those kind of problems. Same thing with, with police shootings, right? Someone saying, hey, this guy has a weapon. Or this guy appears to have a weapon. There's a big difference between those two things.

• 45:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, the like legal. When they're speaking like legal terms, they're always like super careful about that. Like, oh, they'll say allegedly, or you know, like even though the guy just did it on camera. They're like, the, uh, suspect. Even that, that's like a suspect. I'm watching it right here on the video. No, no, it's not proven in the court a lot yet. So you know, it's like, it's like that.

• 45:39Jocko Willink?

  That legal one.

• 45:44Jocko Willink?

  Next section is about orders. Formal orders. Formal orders will be preceded by letters of instruction and by personal conferences. In this way, the whole purpose of the operation will be made clear, together with the mission to be accomplished by each major unit. In this way, if communication breaks down during combat, each commander can and must so act as to attain the general objective. This is a little something we called decentralized command. Right? Everyone has to know what the main objective is, so when communication breaks down, which it will, we can still move forward.

• 46:22Jocko Willink?

  The order itself will be short, accompanied by a sketch. It tells what to do, not how.

• 46:34Jocko Willink?

  It is really a memorandum and assumption of responsibility by the issuing commander. So, a bunch of key things there. The order is supposed to be short. The order is accompanied by a sketch.

• 46:47Jocko Willink?

  Once again, we get this visual representation thing seems to be important. And this is an important one. Tells what to do, not how. I have to brief people on that one all the time.

• 47:00Jocko Willink?

  So, and you'll also notice this. Formal orders will be preceded by letters of instruction and by personal conferences. So, you know, a trick question that I ask companies when I'm working with them. What's better form of communication? Email or voice or face to face?

• 47:24Jocko Willink?

  And of course, everyone says voice, voice, voice. Or they say face to face. I'll say, what's more, what's a better form of communication? Email or phone call? And everyone goes, oh, phone call is so much better. Right? That's, that's everyone's gut instinct. Oh, yeah. Talking to someone is so much more clear. And then I say, okay, here's the problem with just talking. If we just talk. I say one thing, you hear something else.

• 47:46Speaker 01

  Oh, right.

• 47:46Jocko Willink?

  This happens all the time. So that's why I follow up. When you and I have a conversation, I follow it up with an email and say, hey, just want to make sure we're good on this. Make sure that we're gonna do A, B, and C.

• 47:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:57Jocko Willink?

  And then you say, uh, hey, I thought we were doing A, B, and D. And I say, oh, no, sorry. My fault. I didn't explain it clearly. So that's one way. The other thing is, the opposite is also true. If I just send you an email, I want you to do this, this. There's no tone.

• 48:10Speaker 01

  Right.

• 48:12Jocko Willink?

  There's no expression. You might not see the importance. I might have written it clearly. So after, if it's important, I send you an email and I say, hey, Echo, just following up to make sure that we're on the same page, because I'm not always the best at writing stuff. But when the email I just sent you, I wanted to make sure that you know, that you understood it was A, B, and C. Did that come through? And you're like, oh, yeah, definitely. Or you're like, wait a second. So you want to use both, and that's exactly what he's saying here. You, you write it, you speak it, you speak it, you write it.

• 48:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. You ever see those guys or talk to those guys where you talk to them, they're all excited. You can totally tell. And then when they text you, it's like two, three, sometimes one word answers. You know, and so you're kind of like, oh, man, he must be kind of mad because his tone now is way different than when I was talking to him or whatever, you know? You sort of make your own interpretation of the, of the thing, depending on like, maybe, I don't know, maybe how you do it or something like that. But some people, that's just how they write, you know? So they'll be like, hey, get back to me, period. And it's like, dang, this guy's mad. He wants me to get back to him.

• 49:21Jocko Willink?

  My son in text is like, just

• 49:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:25Jocko Willink?

  the most horrible.

• 49:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, like you.

• 49:29Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 49:29Speaker 01

  Check. Then again, but you do express certain tones, more comedic, I think, for comedic effect. Well, in my experience, anyway, I'm sure, you know, you have a whole thing. But yeah, when I was texting him, your boy, he, same deal. Like he was like the younger version of you.

• 49:44Jocko Willink?

  He just has no. What'd he say? He was in a surf contest the other day and you know, so he's, I was somewhere else. And you know, I'm texting him, hey, did you make it through the first heat? Cause the way surf contests work, you surf in heats and you have to get in the top three in each heat to advance and then eventually you get to the finals. So I'm texting him and this is a teenage boy, right? So it's not like he's not on his phone. Right. I'm texting him, hey, how'd you do? Hey, how'd the first heat go? Did you make it through? Nothing heard, nothing heard, nothing heard all day. Finally, the end of the day.

• 50:18Jocko Willink?

  I say, hey, did you finish the contest? How did you do? He writes back, got two.

• 50:27Jocko Willink?

  Which meant he got second place in the contest. Like that's all it said. All, all small letters. Yeah. How does it even do small letters? Cause it automatically caps somehow on his phone, no automatic capitalization. It says got two. Which is the seventeen year old boy's way of saying, hey dad, I got second place today. Thanks for showing some concern and I appreciate your support as a father. I had a great time. That's his all in there, right? No. Got two. So anyways, yeah.

• 50:58Jocko Willink?

  Follow up.

• 51:00Jocko Willink?

  With, and you know, then when I, I called him later or whatever, he's like, oh yeah, first, you know, he's giving me all the details. Right. Got to.

• 51:11Jocko Willink?

  And he talks about something called fragmentary orders, frag orders. After the initial order, you will seldom get another formal order, but you may get fragmentary orders in writing or orally by phone or personally. Take down all oral orders and repeat them back. Have your juniors do the same to you. Again, can you imagine how many times and how important this is? That this guy, General Patton, by the way, is saying, listen, when you get told to do something, write it down and read it back.

• 51:43Jocko Willink?

  That's just the standard operating procedure of life when you get told to do something. Write it down, read it back. There's nothing that instills more confidence in me than when I'm telling somebody what to do and they're taking notes on it. That's just, you go, okay, cool. I can barely even trust, look, I'm not saying this in a bad way, but I barely even trust waitresses or waiters. When I'm telling them what I want and they're just looking at me like I got this.

• 52:12Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 52:13Jocko Willink?

  I'm always nervous.

• 52:14Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 52:14Jocko Willink?

  I guess maybe really not, you know, sometimes I can't help myself, but I'll say, you must be pretty good. You know, they'll be like, yeah, I got you. Right. And they're looking at me like they do this all the time.

• 52:23Speaker 01

  Right. Is it, do you think that that's like a move, like a flex, right? For, you know, service industry one that's like, oh yeah, like I'm so good.

• 52:30Jocko Willink?

  A little bit of a flex and also just a skill, right?

• 52:34Speaker 01

  Right, right. Yeah, that's what I mean, like showing off the skill.

• 52:36Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, and sometimes I don't even think they're showing off, sometimes I just think they're, that's what they do. That's what they're, they're just trying to, you know, they're just saying like, yeah, I got this.

• 52:43Speaker 01

  That's what they do on an individual level or as a company?

• 52:46Jocko Willink?

  Cause that individual, that individual's like, hey, I, you know, go ahead, tell, cause you know, I always, I always want to order right now. You know, when they come over to offer you water, I want to order them. I don't, I don't, I don't, yeah, I don't want to go through the sequence. When you come to me, I want to order, cause I already know what I'm getting. I'm getting a Caesar salad and a ribeye. That's already happening. So we already know that walking into the place, I don't need to look at the menu. I don't want to look at the menu. So when they come over and, and I say, they say, uh, you know, they start pouring my water. I say, I'm actually ready to order. And sometimes they just look at me and say, okay, go.

• 53:19Speaker 01

  Hit me.

• 53:20Jocko Willink?

  Kind of a pro move, right?

• 53:21Speaker 01

  I think so.

• 53:22Jocko Willink?

  Over time, I think over time I've become more comfortable with it. And now when someone does that, I know they're a pro. So I guess now I'm good with it. I didn't used to be, you know? When I transitioned from eating at, let's say, the restaurants where there's no pros, right? Like a normal restaurant, people are just in there, they're taking notes, right? They're, this is like, they're, this is their secondary job, whatever, they're a teenager, whatever. Like they're, this is, they're just doing this to make whatever, some extra money. When you go to a real restaurant where there's pros, I have confidence in those people.

• 53:55Speaker 01

  Yep, until.

• 53:57Jocko Willink?

  There's a mistake.

• 53:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, oh, yes, yes. But and I think and I know this because I was with my wife literally then, not yesterday. It was the day before, when it whenever, very recently, either yesterday, day before. We were at a sushi restaurant. It was our first time there. It was nice inside, but it was like it was kind of new casual trendy nice.

• 54:15Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 54:15Speaker 01

  You know, that kind.

• 54:16Jocko Willink?

  Little nervous, little nervous.

• 54:17Speaker 01

  Kind of minimalist, but it's like you don't know if it's like, is this a high end restaurant? Or just super trendy? So the jury was still out on that whole situation. So whatever. And then, you know, he pulled one of those. I respected him for it. I like when they do that on that level. But there is a question mark in the back. Man, because I'm one of the annoying type order.

• 54:35Jocko Willink?

  You've got special things.

• 54:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, you got the this and can have extra this and I don't want to. I don't want a coke, but until the food comes.

• 54:41Jocko Willink?

  It's also kind of like chess. You know, a good chess player is looking at the chessboard in chunks. So they don't have to remember every piece. They're remembering whole, whole schemes of maneuver that are going to happen.

• 54:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:53Jocko Willink?

  When you're ordering in the restaurant, when you say, I want steak and see like they already. And so they all they actually are remembering is when you say, oh, I'd like the peppercorn sauce medium. Right? That's the only thing they really need to remember because they remembered everything else.

• 55:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:08Jocko Willink?

  So.

• 55:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's really, yeah, man, yeah. Yeah, they and I I'm with you though. Like when I when if someone's like boom, boom, they're on it and they bring everything, especially at the annoying sides. Okay, so me and my wife's like this too, where she'll be like, can I? She want different sauces that you don't normally get with it. You know, like that kind, me too. And then, um.

• 55:26Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I know. It's a it's a it's a pain to have those specialty requests, right?

• 55:32Speaker 01

  But it's so it makes it so much better. But nonetheless, if if they come through with that boom, without being quote unquote reminded. And how even me saying reminded like it sounds condescending, but the thing is I understand.

• 55:43Jocko Willink?

  Don't give you what you asked for, which do you just suck it up and just deal with it? Or do you say something?

• 55:51Jocko Willink?

  Which one?

• 55:51Speaker 01

  What? What do you mean say something?

• 55:53Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 55:53Speaker 01

  I remind them, yeah, can I get the sriracha or whatever, or the wasabi, whatever. But I don't.

• 55:57Jocko Willink?

  Do they act super guilty? Or do they act just super annoyed?

• 56:00Speaker 01

  Oh, I don't, I, I don't remember any time anyone acting annoyed, but.

• 56:07Jocko Willink?

  Have you ever, I've done that where I've asked for some little specific thing and then they don't deliver. And then I say, hey, you know, I, I actually asked for this and they're like, and they're acting annoyed at me.

• 56:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, uh, I can see how that could happen.

• 56:20Jocko Willink?

  See why I deserve it, right? Cause I'm asking for some like specific thing. So that's why when somebody messes something up, I'm kind of like, okay, well, that's just, this is how it is all.

• 56:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, I feel like I'm jamming up the whole system because I used to work service industry a long time. So the, you know, you have a system and it works so good, especially when you're dealing with like people after people, you know, group and group it like all day. And the system works so good and it's probably formulated out off of like something, something that everyone's cooperating with, I'll tell you that.

• 56:48Jocko Willink?

  It's working.

• 56:48Speaker 01

  And I'm not cooperating, I feel, cause I'm the customer who's not technically cooperating. You know how, cause it starts with what drinks? Hi, everybody, sit down, you know, one minute, should be like one minute.

• 56:57Jocko Willink?

  Water's coming.

• 56:58Speaker 01

  Drinks, water, you want anything to drink besides water, blah, blah, blah. Me, I'm like.

• 57:02Jocko Willink?

  Appetizers.

• 57:03Speaker 01

  But yeah, so bro, I'm the kind of like, yeah, I do want to drink, but how's this? The drink, I want the drink to come with the food already jamming up the whole system. So they should be annoyed with me. In fact, I wouldn't say they should be, but if they're annoyed with me, I understand. Oh, I'm annoying already and it doesn't stop there. Bro, they'll bring out the sushi or whatever, be like, hey, can I have two sides, uh, extra wasabi, side of eel sauce and teriyaki sauce? Sometimes I have teriyaki sauce and it's like, wow, this guy, Brad just ordered like, everybody in here is playing the game. You're over here doing all this stuff. I'm over here trying to memorize your order without writing it down and you're over there throwing this at me, you know? So I understand.

• 57:35Jocko Willink?

  But I think what my, to my point earlier, they don't have to memorize your whole order. They're just like, oh, this guy's got these two things that are outside the normal box. There's only really two things they have to remember. I think.

• 57:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, but.

• 57:46Jocko Willink?

  That's what happens.

• 57:47Speaker 01

  I think you're right.

• 57:48Jocko Willink?

  This, all this means, look, you're a leader. You're a junior leader. Your boss is going to tell you, do something, do yourself a favor, do your boss a favor. Don't make him wonder if you're a waiter or waitress that can handle the scenario. Don't make him wonder that. You whip out your notebook and you go, hey, boss, let me just read this back to you, what you told me, cause I want to get this a hundred percent right. And you say, okay, awesome. Up the confidence level.

• 58:11Speaker 01

  Good idea.

• 58:11Jocko Willink?

  That's my recommendation. Uh, next section, warning orders, warning orders are vital and must be issued in time. This requirement applies not only to combat units, but also the surgeon signal officer, quartermaster, and ordinance officer, engineering officer, who must get warning orders promptly. They too have plans to make. Warning orders is the initial thing that you tell the troops. Hey, we might be attacking. Get ready for this. That's a warning order. I sent somebody a warning order the other day. Oh, yeah, I remember what it was.

• 58:42Jocko Willink?

  You know, I literally, because he's another team guy. And I said, hey, here's a warning order. Oh, yeah. You call it a warning order, like you classify. Here's the warning order. Because I was just giving them a heads up. We got a, we got a possible scenario. I'll do that too. I'll say new mission though. Like, you know, I'll, I'll indicate what this is, is coming, you know. So here's the thing with that. New mission means you're going to tell them exactly what's going on. Warning order, you give them just, because

• 59:09Jocko Willink?

  warning order is just a heads up. Right, like this might. This might be happening. Here's kind of the general thing we think is going to be happening. You can give it to them a little bit earlier. New mission means now you got all this prep to do because you didn't get a warning order. All right. Step up your game.

• 59:26Jocko Willink?

  Next, keep troops informed. Use every means before and after combat to tell troops what they're going to do and what they have done. Boom. There you go. I believe there's a whole section in that, uh, in the book called Leadership Strategy and Tactics. And I think it's literally called to keep the troops informed.

• 59:47Jocko Willink?

  Next, administration, supply. I was thinking, oh, you know, I'll skip this because whatever. No, here's what it says. The onus of supply rests equally on the giver and the taker.

• 1:00:01Jocko Willink?

  That is so important. Instead of, hey, we, we, hey, where's our dang supplies? It's their fault? It's like, no, actually it's my fault. And then he says this, forward units must anticipate needs and ask for supplies in time. They must stand ready to use all their means to help move supplies. The supply service must get the things asked for to the right place at the right time. They, they must do more. By reconnaissance, they will anticipate demands and start the supplies up before they're called for.

• 1:00:32Jocko Willink?

  So this is what's interesting. You see both sides have to take extreme ownership of the delivery of the supplies. And what you get is you get interlocking fields of fire overlapping, oh, interlocking and overlapping fields of fire, which is exactly what you want.

• 1:00:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:00:50Jocko Willink?

  Meaning overlapping fields of fire, meaning you're, I'm shooting to the northwest, and you're shooting also part of your coverage is to the northwest, but then you're getting a little bit more to the east too. So we're both looking and we're overlapping, overlapping fields of fire. That's what we want. And that's what, that's what, when you have extreme ownership on both sides, you get overlapping fields of fire, which means the chances of something being missed are less because the fields of fire are overlapping.

• 1:01:23Speaker 01

  It's both got it covered.

• 1:01:24Jocko Willink?

  I've never said that before.

• 1:01:25Speaker 01

  It's good. Yeah, cuz even fields of fire overlap, almost like.

• 1:01:30Jocko Willink?

  I'm gonna clean up that analogy, and that's gonna end up being a very powerful analogy.

• 1:01:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like you both got it covered, you know?

• 1:01:37Jocko Willink?

  You both got it covered. I say something close to it a lot, me, which, which is, you know, I say, look, when every person, when everyone in the chain of command is taking ownership of the problems, the problems get solved. There's more to it than that. Because when you take ownership of the problem, and I take ownership of the same problem, there's overlapping fields of fire, and we will kill that problem. Because you're gonna see it from your angle, and maybe you get 80% of it solved, I got that other 20%.

• 1:02:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:02Jocko Willink?

  Doubly insured. Yes. And then it says this, "The desperate determination to succeed is just as vital to supply as it is to the firing line." The desperate determination, meaning the guys on the front line, we know their, their lives are in danger. Supply has to have the same attitude. Logistics wins wars. They got a chunk in here on replacements. They got a chunk in here on hospitals. They got a chunk in here on decorations. Decorations are for the purpose of raising the fighting value of troops. Therefore, they must be awarded promptly. Have a definite officer on your staff, educated in writing citations, and

• 1:02:44Jocko Willink?

  see that they get through. Boy, we don't do a good job of this anymore. The awards process is, is painful.

• 1:02:54Jocko Willink?

  Next section is on discipline. Anyways, going back to decorations real quick. That means when you're running a business, when you're running a team and someone does something well, recognize them for it quickly, promptly.

• 1:03:09Jocko Willink?

  It means something. The next section is called discipline.

• 1:03:14Jocko Willink?

  Which we're definitely fond of. There's only one kind of discipline, perfect discipline. If you do not enforce and maintain discipline, you are potential murderers.

• 1:03:27Jocko Willink?

  You must set the example. Check.

• 1:03:31Jocko Willink?

  Believe me, Patton is into discipline. He's, we're gonna read another section he goes into, that's all he's got in here. Next section, rumors. Reports based on information secured through reconnaissance conducted after dark should be viewed with skepticism. The same thing applies to reports from walking wounded and stragglers. These latter seem, seek to justify themselves by painting alarming pictures. Boy, that's a,

• 1:03:59Jocko Willink?

  that's a, that's a, that's a very astute observation, right? Gay guys that are coming back, that are wounded, or walking wounded, or was it stragglers? They're telling, like, it's so bad. Cause they don't wanna look bad.

• 1:04:17Jocko Willink?

  Uh, he says, "It is risky and usually impossible to move reserves during darkness on every call for help. Units cannot be wholly destroyed in a night attack, they must stick. Launch your counterattack after daylight and subsequent to adequate reconnaissance and see that it's coordinated." That's a good one. But what that basically means is, to me,

• 1:04:40Jocko Willink?

  when you defeat someone, you need to go in there and like, finish it off a hundred percent.

• 1:04:49Jocko Willink?

  Condition, and by that he means conditioning, and by that he means physical conditioning. High physical condition is vital to victory. There are more tired corps and division commanders than there are tired corps and divisions. Fatigue makes cowards of us all. Men in condition do not tire.

• 1:05:11Jocko Willink?

  And the last one is courage, do not take counsel of your fears, which he seems to write that all the time. And it's, there's a good reason for it. You're going to be afraid, don't listen to it. Don't negotiate with it. Signed Lieutenant General, US Army Commanding. Okay, so that, that was letter of instruction number one. And this, now we're going to jump into, this one came out a little bit later.

• 1:05:33Jocko Willink?

  Letter of instruction number two.

• 1:05:37Jocko Willink?

  This letter stresses those tactical and administrative usages which combat experience has taught myself and the officers who have served under me to consider vital.

• 1:05:49Jocko Willink?

  And then it says, you will not simply mimeograph this and call it a day. You are responsible that these usages become habitual in your command.

• 1:06:01Jocko Willink?

  Even in war, 1944, we're getting ready to invade France and fight the Nazis. We're going to embark on the most, on the largest attack assault ever in the history of the world. That's what we're doing. And guess what? He's still saying, look, you can't just mimeograph this and call it a day. Even then, even with all that, you got officers that are like, okay, boss, put out some word here. You can read it.

• 1:06:34Jocko Willink?

  No.

• 1:06:36Jocko Willink?

  This idea of, hey, just putting out the word being enough. This reflects what he said last time about 10%, 90%. 10% is given the order, 90% is personally ensuring it gets done. Taking ownership of it. That's what he's talking about. That is exactly what he's talking about.

• 1:06:56Jocko Willink?

  Okay, so he starts it off with that, then he goes right into discipline.

• 1:07:01Jocko Willink?

  Which as I said, he's a believer in the power of discipline. So he says, there's only one sort of discipline, perfect discipline. I'm reading it kind of without much vigor. Because I've read it before. He says it all the time. I'm gonna read it again with vigor, because it deserves some. There is only one sort of discipline, perfect discipline. Men cannot have good battle discipline and poor administrative discipline. Oh, imagine that. You can't just be all lackadaisical back behind in garrison, doing the administrative stuff and then expect you're gonna have discipline. When it's for combat related subjects. You gotta have it across the board. Good.

• 1:07:46Jocko Willink?

  Discipline is based on pride and the profession of arms, on meticulous attention to details and on mutual respect and confidence. Discipline must be a habit so ingrained that it is stronger than the excitement of battle or the fear of death.

• 1:08:05Jocko Willink?

  Check. Have you ever seen the movie?

• 1:08:12Jocko Willink?

  Soldier.

• 1:08:14Speaker 01

  Soldier, soldier, soldier.

• 1:08:16Jocko Willink?

  Oh, this could be a good one. You're gonna have to go watch this one tonight.

• 1:08:19Speaker 01

  Who's in now, or what, which one is that?

• 1:08:21Jocko Willink?

  The movie is called Soldier. It stars a guy named, it stars a famous guy.

• 1:08:31Jocko Willink?

  And I can't think of his name right now. But he was in Tombstone.

• 1:08:38Jocko Willink?

  And it's not, he looks like, kinda like Patrick Swayze.

• 1:08:42Speaker 01

  Val Kilmer?

• 1:08:42Jocko Willink?

  No. No, he's real famous. He's a really famous actor.

• 1:08:48Speaker 01

  Well, so Tombstone, that was Kurt Russell?

• 1:08:49Jocko Willink?

  Yes, Kurt Russell. Okay, so Kurt Russell's in this movie Soldier. You gotta watch this movie. This movie is a really good movie. Think about what I'm saying right now. This movie's a really good, and it's not only surprising that I'm saying that. Because it's like a sci-fi movie.

• 1:09:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think I did.

• 1:09:06Jocko Willink?

  It's a sci-fi movie. It's.

• 1:09:10Jocko Willink?

  It's pretty, on the surface, you go, okay, you can barely, you, it's the kind of movie you'd flip through in the video store and be like, whatever, another, it looks just like any other cheesy movie. It's a good movie. Soldier. At one point in the movie, so he's this guy that's been fighting wars his whole life, and they're being replaced by cybernetic soldiers.

• 1:09:35Jocko Willink?

  And so he gets like sent to a, a space junkyard. And on the space junkyard, there's people that kind of live there. That have their own little society. And he shows up there and he starts trying to long story, but at one point, this woman asks, asks him, cause he just, he just, he just is, he's just like a perfect soldier, right? That at one point, this woman, she says something along the lines of, do you ever, do you ever feel anything? And he says, I don't even think, I think he says, yes, sir. He calls everyone sir, even the, even females. I think he says something along the lines of, yes, sir.

• 1:10:20Jocko Willink?

  Fear

• 1:10:23Jocko Willink?

  and discipline.

• 1:10:26Jocko Willink?

  Yes! Yes!

• 1:10:29Speaker 01

  Sounds like your kind of movie.

• 1:10:30Jocko Willink?

  Yes. And the other cool thing about this movie, the movie has, like I, I want to say the first half an hour, there's no speaking, there's no, there's no dialogue. They're showing the kids being selected and trained. So, the kid that can't keep up with the run, they kill him.

• 1:10:48Jocko Willink?

  This is like my dream society.

• 1:10:53Jocko Willink?

  So, I'm gonna go watch this tonight if I can.

• 1:10:56Speaker 01

  I guess I will too, and shoot.

• 1:10:58Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, you're gonna love this movie.

• 1:10:59Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, I am familiar with it actually. So when you said the sci-fi, I was like, okay, I, I think I know which one you're talking about.

• 1:11:06Jocko Willink?

  The bat kind of, kind of marginal special effects and stuff?

• 1:11:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:11:11Jocko Willink?

  They need to remake that movie with me in it.

• 1:11:15Jocko Willink?

  Hey, they have tattoos. I think they have tattoos either on their arm or on their face. Oh, they have their rank on their face, but then they have tattoos of the Like the bar coders. The, yeah, they have a barcode, but then they have the tattoos of the campaigns in which they've served. Oh, no. So legit.

• 1:11:34Jocko Willink?

  So, fear and discipline, that's what life is as a soldier. Okay, you're afraid, but guess what? You have discipline, you overcome it. And according to Patton, "Discipline must be a habit so ingrained that is stronger than the excitement of battle or the fear of death." And if you think about, just think about that word excitement, right? But this doesn't only apply to battle. Think if you can have enough discipline that when there's stressful situations occurring around you, you have the discipline to be able to take a step back and detach instead of getting wrapped up in it. That's discipline.

• 1:12:12Jocko Willink?

  Everyday life.

• 1:12:15Jocko Willink?

  He continues on talking about discipline. "The history of our, of our invariably victorious armies demonstrates that we are the best soldiers in the world. This should make your men proud. This should make you proud. This should imbue your units with unconquerable self-confidence and pride in demonstrated ability.

• 1:12:39Jocko Willink?

  Discipline can only be obtained when all officers are so imbued with the sense of their awful obligation to their men and to their country that they cannot tolerate negligence. Officers who fail to correct errors or to praise excellence are valueless in peace and dangerous misfits in war."

• 1:13:08Jocko Willink?

  Boom.

• 1:13:10Speaker 01

  Yep, it's good.

• 1:13:11Jocko Willink?

  Think about that. Have you ever heard leadership described as an awful obligation? That is the most exquisite

• 1:13:22Jocko Willink?

  choice of words that I've heard in a long time. That's what it is. An awful obligation to the men and their country.

• 1:13:35Jocko Willink?

  Continues on, officers must assert themselves by example and by voice. They must be preeminent, encourage deportment and dress.

• 1:13:46Jocko Willink?

  One of the primary purposes of discipline is to produce alertness. A man who is so lethargic that he fails to salute will fall easy victim to an enemy.

• 1:14:00Jocko Willink?

  Combat experience has proven that ceremonies such as formal guard bounce, formal retreat formations, and regular and supervised revelry formations are a great help and in some cases essential to prepare men and officers for battle to give them that perfect discipline, the smartness of appearance, that alertness without which battles cannot be won. So he's all into that, all, all.

• 1:14:24Speaker 01

  What is revelry formation?

• 1:14:25Jocko Willink?

  Revelies wake up, uh, when we had Joel on from the French Foreign Legion. What they call appelle, that's revelry and wake up and get in line. And, and retreat, formal retreat formation, a retreat formation is, is putting down the flag. Like is the end of the day, hey, we're done for the day. So even when you're in garrison, you do that formally.

• 1:14:43Speaker 01

  Right, right. Okay. So there was, so we.

• 1:14:45Jocko Willink?

  By the way, none of this stuff, you never do any of this stuff in the SEAL teams.

• 1:14:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:49Jocko Willink?

  Like barely ever. When, the only time we'll do it is like if something's gone on, we, a bunch of guys get in trouble. All of a sudden they'll start saying, all right, we're gonna be there every morning. And everyone goes, oh, come on. You know?

• 1:15:01Speaker 01

  Bunch of misfits.

• 1:15:01Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, a bunch of misfits.

• 1:15:03Speaker 01

  So the revelry formations, that's like an official, uh, like a formal wake up sequence.

• 1:15:08Jocko Willink?

  We're waking up at six, we're meeting at 6:30, that's happening every day. And then at the end of the day, here's what we're doing. You know, we're assembling again, we're putting out final word, and then you can go and, you know, have dinner or whatever.

• 1:15:20Speaker 01

  Huh, okay.

• 1:15:21Jocko Willink?

  So just really highly disciplined formalities.

• 1:15:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:27Jocko Willink?

  Even when.

• 1:15:27Speaker 01

  Even just waking up.

• 1:15:28Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, just waking.

• 1:15:29Speaker 01

  That's a, that's a procedure.

• 1:15:30Jocko Willink?

  We're keeping it real across the board.

• 1:15:34Jocko Willink?

  Continuing on, in the 3rd Army, when troops are not in the actual combat zone nor engaged in tactical exercises or range firing, corps and separate divisions, separate division commanders will see, A, that regular revelry formations be held in attendance at which there will be a minimum of one officer per company or similar unit, and in addition, when practicable, a minimum of one field officer per regiment or separate battalion. B, that it shall be customary for all organizations to hold formal retreat under arms. Attendance in addition to the prescribed enlisted men shall be all officers of company grade. In the case of regiments and separate battalions, a minimum of one field officer.

• 1:16:17Jocko Willink?

  B, that in the case where music is available and it is practicable, from a billeting standpoint, frequent regimental and battalion retreat parades and similar ceremonies will be held. Again, this is stuff that in the SEAL teams, this never happens. I mean, it happens like when someone retires, or when there's a funeral. Like, it does not happen where you could go, you could go, you could go years without ever putting on a dress uniform. You could go years, so just kinda saying. That unit and organizational guards shall be performed strictly within accordance to FM 26 Tac 5.

• 1:17:00Jocko Willink?

  When music is available, formal guard mounts will be held frequently. E, that officers in formation wear a uniform analogous to that worn by the enlisted men, and that all officers participate in all drills and marches at all times with their organizations or units. This includes marching to and from training areas and ranges. So that's what he, that's the end of that list. So, you can see, he ain't playing around. Like, you're gonna be highly disciplined part of this situation here. So, in life...

• 1:17:39Speaker 01

  You know, cuz there's like format, you know, like dinner time, for example, that's like another.

• 1:17:42Jocko Willink?

  Yep.

• 1:17:43Speaker 01

  I mean, that's not another, but like a one, an example of life.

• 1:17:46Jocko Willink?

  It is.

• 1:17:46Speaker 01

  Formality.

• 1:17:48Jocko Willink?

  Hey, hey fam.

• 1:17:50Speaker 01

  Dinner time, wash hands.

• 1:17:51Jocko Willink?

  Every day, six o'clock, five fifty-five, wash hands, six o'clock at the table.

• 1:17:56Speaker 01

  Yep, be home before dinner.

• 1:17:58Jocko Willink?

  Be home before dinner, all those things. Those are like things that you could put in your life, or, you know, wake up when the alarm clock goes off. Get your workout, like there's things you do every day, right? Brush your teeth, floss your teeth, stupid, right? Until you got your teeth falling out.

• 1:18:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:11Jocko Willink?

  Until you got dental problems.

• 1:18:13Speaker 01

  Dental scenarios. Bedtime too, well, the dinner time is a big one because it's like everyone does it. There's a procedure that's in place, hey, wash hands. Sometimes they have one kid set the table or whatever, maybe two kids, whatever. Then you can't just roll out, you gotta what?

• 1:18:28Jocko Willink?

  May I be excused?

• 1:18:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, and then it's like, okay, then, you know, then cleanup time or whatever, however you handle that, there's different ways or whatever, and then you're sort of done. You know, and it's everybody's a part of that, yeah.

• 1:18:38Jocko Willink?

  That's what, that's a, a little minor example of this.

• 1:18:42Speaker 01

  Yeah. Bedtime too, I guess, thanks.

• 1:18:46Jocko Willink?

  Continues on here, officers are always on duty. And their duty extends to every individual junior to themselves in the US Army. Not only to members of their organization, that's awesome. You know, and this, you wanna talk about like, this is a good way to think about life as a human being, right? Like your duty extends to every human, like I'm here to help other people.

• 1:19:10Jocko Willink?

  Not just people that I know, but everybody. Next, Americans with arms in their hands are fools as well as cowards to surrender. If they fight on, they will conquer.

• 1:19:24Jocko Willink?

  He says this, cases of misbehavior before the enemy will be brought to, before general court martial and tried under the seventy-fifth article of war. It has been my experience that many court marshals are prone to view this most heinous offense for which the punishment of death may be inflicted in too lenient a manner. They should realize that the lives of troops are saved by punishment of initial offenders. Cowardice is a disease and it must be checked before it becomes an epidemic.

• 1:19:56Jocko Willink?

  That sounds super hardcore. I'm gonna tell you a quick story. I was, I don't even, were you? No, it was Andy and I were training the other day. And we were training on the, like the Jaco mat, right? So we're training on the Jaco mat. And actually, as we showed up, someone else was showing up to train too. And it was two adult males. And they had a fourteen year old kid with them, estimated age.

• 1:20:23Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:20:24Jocko Willink?

  And you know, I know the dads a little bit, you know, it's, hey, what's going on? Oh, I bring my friend. Oh, they have their son, or he's got his son here. He trained a little bit here and there. I'm like, okay, but he's, he's not sure about getting back into it. I guess he probably trained when he was, let's say, eight, right? So it's been a few years. And the kid, so the, so, and he, I look over the balcony thing and I see the kid, I goes, is that him? And he's like, he's like, yeah, is he allowed in? I go, yeah. I go, hey, send that kid up here. So the kid comes up and I'm just like hanging out, having fun, whatever. So then the kid shows up and I'm like getting warmed up with Andy and we take, you know, five minute warm up round and I say to the kid, I'm like, oh, hey, you know, you trained before? And he says, yeah, I trained a little bit. And I was like, okay, cool. You know, that's awesome.

• 1:21:07Jocko Willink?

  And then I do a couple of rounds with Andy and then I say, and meanwhile, the two dads are training. With gi, by the way.

• 1:21:16Jocko Willink?

  This is a long story. I'm sorry. I'll make it as short as possible. Eventually, I say to the kid, hey, are you gonna train? And he goes, well, I'm not sure I'm allowed to.

• 1:21:27Jocko Willink?

  And I said, no, no, actually, I own the gym. So that means you can go, yeah, I'm telling you right now, you can go train. So come out on the mat. Cause I'm thinking there's a kid here that could change his life and have a better life. And his whole world will improve if he trains jujitsu, right? He's in the gym, bro. I mean, this is like a low hanging fruit. Let's get this kid in the game.

• 1:21:43Speaker 01

  Sure, yeah.

• 1:21:44Jocko Willink?

  So then,

• 1:21:47Jocko Willink?

  he says, I don't have a gi. What the other, the dad, not his dad, the other guy, the friend of his dad was like, I have one for you. And I go, go get it. So then he runs out, goes to get the gi from the car. The kid kind of puts the gi on, comes out on the mat. You can see the kid's not. Not really a hundred percent down with this whole thing, right? For whatever reason, right? Maybe it's because, you know, it's weird to be with your dad and his old man friend, right? Sure. Like, I'm a fifty, fourteen year old kid, we hang out with these old guys doing whatever this weird, you know, thing is. Here's the apex of the story that I've been trying to get to. Eventually, the kid's on the mat, he's in his gi. I'm training with Andy, we're on a break during rounds.

• 1:22:31Jocko Willink?

  And I hear the kid, so they're on a break too, because they're doing five minute rounds, but it's just the two dads. And I hear them trying to convince the kid to, you know, get around with. His dad was, was the beginner. The other guy is like, maybe high level white belt, maybe like blue belt type level. So he's kind of showing him what to do. And, and they're kind of trying to convince the kid, but the kid's kind of like, well, you know. And so I look over there and I go, hey, you get on him right now, you're doing the next round. And the kid just like goes and starts the round. Get on. Get on, I go, hey, you're in. I go, you go against him now. And the kid like just obeyed. Right. Right?

• 1:23:18Jocko Willink?

  My point in saying this whole thing is like,

• 1:23:23Jocko Willink?

  sometimes that kind of leadership is required. Because all you're trying to do is push the kid in the right direction. Push the soldier in the right direction, push the employee in the right direction. Hey, get up there on that thing. Hey, just make that phone call. Hey, just go confront that guy. You know, like, sometimes people need a little push. That's all this kid needed was just a little push. And they weren't, he wasn't looking at me like gonna say, no, I don't want to. And if he would, you know, who knows? I, I would have dealt with the scenario appropriately, at least I would have tried to. But sometimes people just need a little push. So this idea, and, and that's that whole opening speech from Patton.

• 1:24:01Jocko Willink?

  Say what you want about it. Here's the standard. Americans love winners. Americans hate cowards. Like, that's a, that's a gang mentality that you can start. You can start it in a company, you can start a business. We don't, you know, we don't settle down, we don't settle for that, you know, like, whatever it's gonna be. You call that out. And that becomes a part of your culture. Right? So, sometimes, when he's talking about this cowardice thing, I mean, you hear it all the time, right? You hear it, well, you hear it with, in, in an organization. You know, you let a little bit of slack.

• 1:24:39Jocko Willink?

  A little bit of slack here, a little bit. That's why, when Hackworth makes the call of, you know, you say to the, the enlisted guys, say to the officer, hardcore Ricondo, the officer say back, no fucking slack.

• 1:24:54Jocko Willink?

  That starts to become the mentality, even though, and Hackworth even says it in the beginning, people are like, oh, who's this? Gung ho, Mr. Gung ho. It's like, no, that starts to become the standard. You have to start somewhere. So, these are methods of leadership. The problem, can people go overboard with this stuff? Of course they can, totally. That's why there's an economy of leadership that has to be balanced. And there's so many times where Patton, again, kinda like we'd see with Chesty Puller. Like Chesty Puller, this big, you know, uh, bombastic figure of courage and, and, and, and bravery, and, and being super hardcore, hard-nosed.

• 1:25:38Jocko Willink?

  You know, when you read that book about him, man, he loved the, he loved his guys. Hey, old man, you might not wanna do that. Remember that? Like, was this the way he would talk to his guys?

• 1:25:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:48Jocko Willink?

  And yet, he was super hardcore. Patton, same thing.

• 1:25:55Jocko Willink?

  So he's saying, look, when you get cowardice, yes, you, you, you nip it in the bud. Get someone acting up, you go, hey, we don't act like that. And someone goes, oh, gosh.

• 1:26:08Jocko Willink?

  Next section is tactical usages. These are good. Combat principles. There is no approved solution to any tactical situation. Boom. There is no approved solution to any tactical situation.

• 1:26:26Jocko Willink?

  There is only one tactical principle, which is not subject to change. It is to so use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wounds, death and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time. That's what doesn't change.

• 1:26:43Jocko Willink?

  To so use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wounds, death and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time.

• 1:26:52Jocko Willink?

  That's not going to change. We're holding, we're holding fast to that one. Next, in battle casualties vary directly with the time you were exposed to effective fire. Your own fire reduces the effectiveness and volume of the enemy fire. While rapidity of attack shortens the time of exposure. A pint of sweat will save a gallon of blood. That's cover and move, by the way, obviously. We're going to put down fire while we move. That's cover and move. Battles are won by fighting the enemy. Fear is induced by inflicting death and wounds on him. Death and wounds are produced by fire. Fire from the rear is more deadly. And three times more effective from fire than fire from the front. But to get fire behind the enemy, you must hold him by frontal fire and move rapidly around his flank.

• 1:27:35Jocko Willink?

  Frontal, frontal attacks against prepared positions should be avoided as possible, if possible. Cover, move and don't attack the, you know, directly, using direct attacks. Thank you. Thank you, General Patton.

• 1:27:51Jocko Willink?

  Catch the enemy by the nose with fire and kick him in the pants with fire in place through movement.

• 1:27:58Jocko Willink?

  Cover and move. Hit hard soon. That is with two batt- two battalions up in a regiment, or two divisions up in a corps, or two corps up in an army.

• 1:28:10Jocko Willink?

  The idea being to develop your maximum force at once before the enemy can develop his. That's prioritize and execute, by the way. Focus your attacks. You can never be too strong. Get every man and every gun you can secure, provided it does not unduly delay your attack. The German is a champion digger.

• 1:28:29Jocko Willink?

  The larger the force and the more violence you use in your attack, whether it be men, tanks, ammunition, the smaller your proportional losses. This is a tough one. This is one that you, you can get caught thinking that, "Oh, we're gonna do this big attack," that there's gonna be casualties. It's like, there's gonna be less casualties if you do it with the biggest force you can and the most violence you can possibly do your attack with.

• 1:28:57Jocko Willink?

  Never yield ground. It is cheaper to hold what you have than retake what you have lost. Never move troops to the rear for a rest or to reform at night, and in the daytime only where absolutely necessary. Such moves may produce a panic.

• 1:29:18Jocko Willink?

  Here's tactical rules in particular subjects. Use roads to march on fields to fight, and troops should not deploy into line until they're forced by enemy fire. When you are advancing in broken country against possible tank attacks and using leap- and using leapfrog method, be sure to keep the anti-guns up as well. Leapfrog, what, you know what that is?

• 1:29:42Speaker 01

  As far as the ma- I know what the game leapfrog is, but-

• 1:29:44Jocko Willink?

  It's also cover and move.

• 1:29:47Jocko Willink?

  What, because I hold position, you leap forward. Once you get there, you hold position, meaning you either fire or you're prepared to fire if you have to, and then I move. So it's called a leapfrog.

• 1:29:59Jocko Willink?

  In mountain country, secure the heights.

• 1:30:03Jocko Willink?

  In forcing a pass, secure the heights first.

• 1:30:07Jocko Willink?

  This is an interesting one. The effects of mines is largely mental. Not over 10% of our casualties come from them. Then this is what I, what's interesting about that is that, yeah, it's like it's largely mental. Because you have fear of this thing that you can't see, but. He's saying not 10% of our casualties come from, come from them, but for, for my generation. It's like 70% of casualties are from IEDs, right?

• 1:30:37Jocko Willink?

  So a little different than just mental. Never permit a unit to dig in until the final objective is reached. Then dig in, wire and mine. Take plenty of time to set up an attack. Takes at least, this is, here's why I put it, it takes at least two hours to prepare an infantry battalion to execute a properly coordinated attack. Shoving them in too soon produces useless loss. What's funny about this is nowadays, we will take.

• 1:31:06Jocko Willink?

  Two weeks to prepare for an attack. So he's saying, look, hey, you need two hours.

• 1:31:13Jocko Willink?

  And the thing is, he's right. If everybody knows their jobs, you put together a simple, clear plan that's flexible, you don't need all this time.

• 1:31:25Jocko Willink?

  In battle, small forces, platoons, companies and even battalions can do one of three things. Go forward, halt or run. Think about life. Think about what you can do in life. You can go forward, halt or run.

• 1:31:41Jocko Willink?

  What else is there? Go forward, halt or run. He continues. If they halt or run, they will be an even easier target. Therefore, they must go forward. When caught under fire, particularly of artillery, advance out of it, never retreat from it.

• 1:31:57Jocko Willink?

  Artillery very seldom shortens its range.

• 1:32:01Jocko Willink?

  So think about that. How often are we in a position? Where we can go forward, we can hold or we can run. And what he's saying is you're getting attacked. Instead of going backwards, go forwards.

• 1:32:16Jocko Willink?

  General training. Again skipping a bunch of sections, but general training. More emphasis will be placed on the hardening of men and officers.

• 1:32:28Jocko Willink?

  All soldiers and officers should be able to run a mile with combat pack in 10 minutes and march 8 miles in 2 hours.

• 1:32:35Jocko Willink?

  When soldiers are in actual contact with the enemy, it is almost impossible to maintain physical condition. But if the physical condition is right before they gain contact, it will not fall off sufficiently during contact to be detrimental.

• 1:32:51Jocko Willink?

  Hardening of men and officers. That's just, that's what we're doing. Just hardening.

• 1:32:57Speaker 01

  Doesn't sound very comfortable, by the way.

• 1:32:59Jocko Willink?

  It is not. Not meant to be.

• 1:33:03Jocko Willink?

  Our ability to fight at night as opposed to move into position at night for a dawn attack is pittably bad. We must learn to execute the attack in the dark.

• 1:33:13Jocko Willink?

  This might be one of my favorites. Sharpen axes, pickaxes and shovels now and keep them sharp.

• 1:33:24Jocko Willink?

  Just think about that. Sharpen your shovels.

• 1:33:31Jocko Willink?

  I've never sharpened a shovel in my life. I'm gonna go home today and sharpen my shovels.

• 1:33:36Jocko Willink?

  You know what I'm saying? Sharpen your shovels. That's a mindset.

• 1:33:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:41Jocko Willink?

  Never mind sharpen your sword. Look, your sword better be sharp. I'm gonna sharpen my damn shovel.

• 1:33:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:47Jocko Willink?

  In the event of.

• 1:33:49Speaker 01

  That just get ready, be ready.

• 1:33:51Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:51Speaker 01

  Stay ready.

• 1:33:52Jocko Willink?

  Stay ready. I might have to hit you in the head with a pickaxe and I want it to go clean through.

• 1:33:57Speaker 01

  Or dig a hole real quick.

• 1:33:58Jocko Willink?

  Or dig a hole. Either way, I'm gonna be ready.

• 1:34:00Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:34:02Jocko Willink?

  Battles are fought by platoons and squads. Place emphasis on small unit combat instructions so that it's conducted with the same precision as close order drill. A good solution applied with vigor now is better than a perfect solution 10 minutes later.

• 1:34:16Jocko Willink?

  Instruction from the squad to the regiment, sand tables should be used and the officer or non-com being instructed should give the actual orders he will give in combat. Sand tables need not be complicated. A piece of ground in the lee of a building is just as good and much simpler. I used to have this little kit. I learned this from one of the Australian SAS guys that was stationed with us over at SEAL Team One. And it was, you know what a Socrates box is? Socrates? Socrates, I think it's called. The breath mint? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like a little tin box, right?

• 1:34:53Jocko Willink?

  So in this little tin box, you could open it up and I had little, little, like little wood,

• 1:35:05Jocko Willink?

  little wood things, little wood placards. And they had each little wood placard was shaped kind of like a teardrop. Okay, so picture a teardrop? Yeah. And then on the teardrop, it said PT was the first one. And the next one said PL, the next one said RTO. So this point man, platoon leader, radio man. And so I had one of these little teardrops for each guy in the platoon. And then they, I had like a few pieces of ribbon in there. And the ribbon is used to go, oh, here's a road, here's a stream. Okay. Here's a fence. Okay. So what you could do is you could sit down in a perimeter and you could make a little sand table. That's what a sand table is. That's what he's talking about. It's like a little diagram

• 1:35:50Jocko Willink?

  of what's happening. And so I had these little, and I had like a couple, like a little tiny house, like a monopoly, like two monopoly houses. So you'd be like, hey, there's a building here and there's a building here. We're going to be moving here. That's what I had. And so you'd be able to break this thing out. You'd seem like a real pro.

• 1:36:10Speaker 01

  So the little, uh, well, it's weird. I don't think I even know what a placard technically is, but you described it pretty good. It's just a small teardrop representative of the personnel.

• 1:36:21Jocko Willink?

  The reason you have a teardrop, the reason I had a teardrop is because then whatever point the tier, the thing was pointing at was the way your weapons was facing.

• 1:36:29Speaker 01

  Oh, okay. Good. Dang. And the monopoly house. Wait, was it a house or condo? Because they're different. The house is a little green one. The condo is a big red one.

• 1:36:36Jocko Willink?

  I think it was a green one because it's a little bit more tactical. And those were only because you couldn't actually show, but you could show how you're going to set up. That would be like the target. So now we see how we're going to set up like targets here. Boom. You guys are going here. Here's where we're going to maneuver. And then, because it's way bad, it's just nice. Imagine you're in the field and you got a draw in the dirt.

• 1:36:54Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:36:55Jocko Willink?

  But you're finding rocks and you're like, no, this is you, RTO. And he's like, which one is me?

• 1:37:00Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:37:00Jocko Willink?

  All those problems are solved. Break out the secret box. Show them what's up.

• 1:37:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, man. It's good. Yeah, they do that on a lot of movies for sure.

• 1:37:08Jocko Willink?

  What? The secret box?

• 1:37:09Speaker 01

  No, not the particular one, but just create a diagram of the plan, you know? And it's like a rock, sometimes a rock, depending on the movie, obviously. Like on Back to the Future, what's his name? Doc Brown, whatever. He made the, this, he's like, please excuse the crude mock-up, you know, I didn't have the time to do it to scale.

• 1:37:27Jocko Willink?

  In Ramadi, we would go to like these briefings, battalion briefings or brigade briefings. They would have, they had massive sand tables. You'd walk around on them.

• 1:37:35Speaker 01

  Oh, okay.

• 1:37:36Jocko Willink?

  Like all the roads were laid out. You know, a road would be four inches wide, six inches wide. And all the buildings built out of blocks, out of just two by four. Somebody said, some private, some private was sitting there sawing up two by fours and gluing them together.

• 1:37:52Speaker 01

  Having a good old time.

• 1:37:53Jocko Willink?

  But you get, the thing is, once again, in comparison to the thing that you just look at on a PowerPoint, when you start walking around that visual, actual model, you get a better understanding of it.

• 1:38:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, seems like you would fully.

• 1:38:09Jocko Willink?

  So get yourself a little script box.

• 1:38:12Speaker 01

  All toys? Like all toys?

• 1:38:14Jocko Willink?

  Probably. Probably. Maybe I can make one and like show it to people. I don't think I could find, I used to have, I can't find it anymore.

• 1:38:22Speaker 01

  What? The secret?

• 1:38:23Jocko Willink?

  No, the whole little kit that I used to have. I might be able to find that.

• 1:38:26Speaker 01

  You made that kit though.

• 1:38:27Jocko Willink?

  You made it.

• 1:38:28Speaker 01

  It's not like, yeah.

• 1:38:29Jocko Willink?

  Made it. Maybe I need to make one that I could offer to people.

• 1:38:34Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:38:34Jocko Willink?

  Right? I'm sure there's people everywhere that are waiting. They need.

• 1:38:38Speaker 01

  Sure, just for just to randomly have or what like?

• 1:38:43Jocko Willink?

  Alright, yeah, I think that's a DIY situation. You can make yourself, I'm not gonna make them. Decision's been made.

• 1:38:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:38:50Jocko Willink?

  Kinda want to though.

• 1:38:52Speaker 01

  It is cool, cuz that's the kind of stuff you do when you're a little kid. Let's face it.

• 1:38:55Jocko Willink?

  That's what's awesome about being in the SEAL teams or in the military is like all the things that you did when you were a little kid, you're actually doing for real and it's the best.

• 1:39:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, and it's like real, yeah.

• 1:39:05Jocko Willink?

  I'm like, oh, I'm really doing this.

• 1:39:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:39:07Jocko Willink?

  I really did that.

• 1:39:07Speaker 01

  A real mission.

• 1:39:08Jocko Willink?

  You know, I really, like, I really sat and briefed my guys on like killing people. You know, it's, you, you, you sit there and you think back like, well, that's what I was doing. Yeah, oh yeah, I did that. I gave that brief. You know, it's like, it's so lucky to be in, to be in the situation where you get to grow up and do what you wanted to do. I didn't even grow up.

• 1:39:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:39:34Jocko Willink?

  Alright. Guides, oh, officers and men must know their equipment, they must train with the equipment they intend to use in battle. Equipment must be the best operational condition when taken to the theater of operations. Yeah, you, you have to use what you're gonna use. You have to.

• 1:39:51Jocko Willink?

  Guides for officers, officers must possess self-confidence and confidence of their men. And the confidence of their men. Two of the best ways of producing this is meticulously conducted close order drill conducted by officers and platoon marches of forty-eight to sixty hours during which the platoon is wholly on its own.

• 1:40:10Jocko Willink?

  Check.

• 1:40:14Jocko Willink?

  In the first actions, new troops must receive aggressive leadership by all grades, including general officers who must be seen in the front, in the, in the front line during action. Check.

• 1:40:30Jocko Willink?

  There is a universal failure to repeat back oral orders. This failure is certain to result in grave errors. Messages and orders must use concise military verbiage. So, this is the second time he's hitting on this. Makes you start to think, doesn't it? Maybe he's on to something. When you tell somebody to do something, have them tell it back to you. Make it simple, clear and concise.

• 1:41:01Jocko Willink?

  Prisoners, German prisoners over forty, talk more easily than the younger ones. They must be examined separately and not returned to cages where the young ones are. Prisoners and other Germans usually talk, well prisoners other than Germans usually talk freely and inaccurately. They too should be examined out of hearing and later separated from the young Nazis. Yeah, you can ima- I mean, just like we read in, in...

• 1:41:27Jocko Willink?

  Unit, it's not Unit 731, oh, Ordinary Men. Uh, in a police battalion, but the older Nazis, like, they, they weren't convinced. You can imagine, you, when you capture them, they're like, ah, let me tell you what's going on. You, you capture a young militant, you know, fifteen-year-old Nazi Hitler Youth. He's not gonna say anything to you. He's gonna say blood and honor, and that's it.

• 1:41:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:41:51Jocko Willink?

  There is a tendency for the chain of command to overload junior, uh, there is a tendency for the chain of command to overload junior officers with excessive requirements in the way of training and reports. You will alleviate, you will alleviate this burden by eliminating non-essential demands. Boom, there you go. Everybody should listen to that. Part of it, you know how, uh, you get in situations where you, your basic attitude, well, is it, well, it sucked for me. I had to go through it, now I'm gonna make you go through it too?

• 1:42:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:42:24Jocko Willink?

  That's what, I think some of this is because that, some of this is because people lose memory of what it was like.

• 1:42:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:42:32Jocko Willink?

  And so they, they start, they just carry on a tradition. Some of it's like, oh, I had to do those reports when I was a new guy. Now you're gonna do them too.

• 1:42:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, I wonder, what do you think about that, where, okay, I'm not, okay, there's kind of two parts. This, there's the part where it's like, okay, there's some valuable things that a new guy has to go through that seem like a hazing or a blah, blah, blah. But it actually serves the actual purpose, right? And then there's that additional, like, oh, that's the tradition, as a new guy, you gotta, I don't know, pay your dues, for lack of a better term. Do you think there's value in that for like?

• 1:43:07Jocko Willink?

  There's, there is some value. There is definitely some value. And, and also, you know, when, and Leif and I talk about this all the time, when we got told to do paperwork and Leif and Seth didn't wanna do paperwork, and they're like, Jaco, can you put a stop to this? And I'm like, no, actually, we're gonna do the paperwork.

• 1:43:24Jocko Willink?

  That doesn't mean that I said, oh, I like doing the paperwork and I think it's beneficial. No, I was trying to build a relationship with my boss. As often as I could, especially overseas, I tried to eliminate as much paperwork as possible. Wasn't always successful, but I tried.

• 1:43:40Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, and there is, and you know, when I went to officer candidate school, there was all kinds of things that seem really dumb when you're there. Especially, I went there and I'd have been in the Navy for eight years, so I kinda understood what was happening. But those people that had just been in the Navy for 10 weeks, when the drill instructor finally said, hey, this is, this is why we do this to you. And everything kinda makes sense. So, there's definitely something, you know, I, not looking at your meal while you're eating it, right? What does that do? Develops your peripheral vision. Yelling everything that you say, what does that do? It allows you to speak with more confidence.

• 1:44:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:44:14Jocko Willink?

  It makes you learn how to think before you speak. Think about every time you talk, you have to yell at the top of your lungs. That's what you have to do at officer candidate school. Every single time you talk, the entire time you're there, you have to yell at the top of your lungs. So, anyone that's shy is gonna get over it. Anyone that's like, like uncomfortable, I had a professor when I went to college, and when she spoke, she covered her mouth.

• 1:44:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:44:37Jocko Willink?

  Every time she spoke, she covered her mouth. Because she just didn't wanna talk, and she was a professor. You know, so she needs to go to OCS and yell at the top of her lungs for 13 weeks. She'd have walked out of there going, hand away from mouth, talking confidently, teaching the class.

• 1:44:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:44:52Jocko Willink?

  Let's do it.

• 1:44:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's, I would assume that's pretty common. I don't like to yell, you know, when they're like, hey, like actually yell and whatever. Yeah, I don't really like to do it.

• 1:45:02Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, okay, I'll get you a bill at OCS, 13 weeks of yelling.

• 1:45:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:45:07Jocko Willink?

  Maybe get that voice adjusted a little bit.

• 1:45:12Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:45:13Jocko Willink?

  Check. Uh, section here on infantry. Infantry must move in order to close with the enemy. It must shoot in order to move. Coward move. I need to make this stuff up, man. It's so interesting when people, you know, uh, say, oh, I don't know about that. It's like, no, cover and move is a real thing. It's undeniable.

• 1:45:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:45:38Jocko Willink?

  Undeniable.

• 1:45:42Jocko Willink?

  When physical targets are not visible, the fire of all infantry weapons must search the area probably occupied by the enemy. I remember when I learned that for the first time. I remember, oh, I think it was actually, I think it might've been Roger Hayden. That was like, no, shoot where you think the enemy would be. I was like, oh. Cause if you think where they could be, I mean, when you're getting fired at from a certain area, you look to that area, you can't tell exactly where the enemy is. So you shoot in the five most likely places that you see. There, and everyone else in your platoon or task unit is doing the same thing. You're going to be shooting at the bad guys, like somewhere.

• 1:46:30Jocko Willink?

  It reduces, and when you're doing that, it reduces the accuracy of his fire and increases our confidence. Shoot short. This is another thing we learned all the time. Ricochets make nastier sounds and wounds. Do you understand that? So when you're shooting at a bad guy, shoot low.

• 1:46:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. Who said, someone was saying that. I think it was Roger Hayden.

• 1:46:49Jocko Willink?

  We all, yeah, it's probably Roger Hayden. Walking it in with a machine gun. It's just kicking, the ricochets are flying on, what ricochets, that means the bullets tumbling when it hits you. It's a nightmare.

• 1:47:00Speaker 01

  Yeah. And if you don't, and if, or if you shoot high, it doesn't hit anything at all.

• 1:47:03Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that's right. That's right. So shoot short. Ricochets make nastier sounds and wounds. To halt under fire is folly. To halt under fire and not fire back is suicide. Move forward out of fire. Officers must set the example.

• 1:47:22Jocko Willink?

  Next, well, skip a few sections here. Few men are killed by the bayonet. Many are scared of it. Bayonets should be fixed when the firefight starts. Bayonets must be sharpened by the individual soldier.

• 1:47:38Jocko Willink?

  The German hates the bayonet and is inferior to our men with it. Our men should know this. That is psychological warfare. Like what he's actually doing, sure, bayonets are psychological, but what he's actually saying there? He's saying that, you know, you have to sharpen your own bayonet. Think about the psychological beauty of that scenario.

• 1:48:00Speaker 01

  Yep, yeah.

• 1:48:01Jocko Willink?

  And then you think the German hates. Does Patton know the German individual soldier? He doesn't know that. But you know what? I'm gonna tell my freaking entire third army that the German hates the bayonet. They're scared of it.

• 1:48:14Speaker 01

  It makes sense.

• 1:48:15Jocko Willink?

  And we're better at it than they are. And even starts this whole thing. A few people are even killed with a bayonet, but it doesn't matter. They're scared of it, sharpen it. We're better than them with the bayonet.

• 1:48:27Speaker 01

  It makes sense. Like if you see, uh, um, I don't know, even a picture of a guy, but let's say like a guy, some crazy guy, your enemy. He's mad, he wants to kill you and he has a gun. You're like, okay, he has a gun. We all have guns, all good. But if the guy has a psychotic blade on the front of his gun and he's like sharpening it himself. You're like, bro, I'm not going near that guy, bro. He's like, that knife makes him seem crazy.

• 1:48:50Jocko Willink?

  There is something very zen and beautiful about sharpening your knife, too.

• 1:48:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:48:54Jocko Willink?

  Like it's a, it's a soul cleansing.

• 1:48:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:48:58Jocko Willink?

  Task.

• 1:48:59Speaker 01

  Yes, sir.

• 1:48:59Jocko Willink?

  Sharpening your knives. And you know, now I'm adding to that, sharpening your shovel.

• 1:49:06Speaker 01

  Good idea.

• 1:49:08Jocko Willink?

  Uh, next, the M1 rifle is the most deadly rifle in the world. If you cannot see the enemy, you can at least shoot at the place where he's apt to be. Same message there. You've got something in here. I might not have outlined it, but just, he, he basically, you know, these things that he's saying, he knows that he's saying them for the psychological boost for his troops.

• 1:49:33Jocko Willink?

  He says here, "The defense will consist of mutually supporting small groups arranged in depth and completely wired in." He didn't say overlapping fields of fire, but he should have. Mines will be placed. Talks about artillery, talks about armor, talks about recon, talks about anti-aircraft and anti-tanks. And, and look, all those things are brilliant and I'm not breezing through them because I don't love artillery and I don't love armor. Anybody that knows anything about me knows that I love armor and artillery. Um, but he, these, the sections in this are very, very tactical.

• 1:50:09Jocko Willink?

  He talks about maintenance. Weapons will be kept in perfect order.

• 1:50:15Jocko Willink?

  Preventative maintenance will be enforced. Particular attention should be given to tire pressure, lubrication, battery voltage and water in radiators. Vehicles will be serviced and made operational before their crews rest.

• 1:50:28Jocko Willink?

  Vehicles will be marked in accordance with paragraph six tac 14 AR eight fifty tac five.

• 1:50:36Jocko Willink?

  We were, we did a long, long mission, like a whole cycle of darkness, my first deployment. And we got back to base and everyone was beat and my leading petty officer was in the, he was the lead nav and the lead nav guy is the kind of guy that directs the convoy.

• 1:50:57Jocko Willink?

  And we drove, we got back to the gate in Baghdad at our base at Baghdad.

• 1:51:02Jocko Willink?

  And he's like, he comes up on the radio and he's like,

• 1:51:06Jocko Willink?

  "Hey boss, can we just, uh, take the vehicles back and refuel, you know, later?"

• 1:51:14Jocko Willink?

  And I let it sit right there like that. I didn't say anything. And then I finally go, "Negative, take it to the fuel depot." And he's like, "Roger."

• 1:51:26Speaker 01

  He already knew that.

• 1:51:26Jocko Willink?

  He already knew the answer, dude.

• 1:51:28Speaker 01

  Right when you jammed up the rhythm.

• 1:51:29Jocko Willink?

  Right when I jammed up the rhythm, he already knew the answer and he was like, "Roger." And I let everybody, I let everybody, because we're exhausted, man. It's been, and it was freezing cold. It was freezing cold. It was raining. So it was raining, like, so the, and this is before we, we had doors. We didn't have doors on our Humvees. So it's probably uh, 35 or 40 degrees because there was a little bit of sleet happening. So it was right around the freezing mark and we did, uh, probably a

• 1:52:01Jocko Willink?

  Four hour drive to get to the target area. The target was outside. It took us a few hours to get this whole thing settled. We ended up with a giant, we ended up having to move around a giant cache of weapons that we captured. Outside in the rain, blah, blah, blah. And then we get in the vehicles. And so you're, you're in the vehicles. It's 35 to 40 degrees. It's raining and you got a 50 mile an hour wind the entire time because the doors, the doors are open. So everyone's freezing. When we get back, the sun's coming up. So it's been an entire cycle of darkness. So I don't know how many hours, but something like, no, there's no sleep.

• 1:52:37Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. And LPO comes over the radio. He's like, hey, boss, can we just take it back to camp and fuel up vehicles later? And I'm like,

• 1:52:49Jocko Willink?

  Negative. Let's take it to the fuel depot.

• 1:52:51Speaker 01

  Wait, where was this?

• 1:52:53Jocko Willink?

  Baghdad.

• 1:52:54Speaker 01

  Damn, it gets that cold, huh?

• 1:52:55Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Yep. Middle of winter. Cold, especially with that 60 mile an hour wind.

• 1:53:04Jocko Willink?

  So there you go. That's the deal. That's the deal. You take care, you take care of that team gear. Because I guarantee you that one time you decide you're gonna not fuel up the vehicles, that's the time you're gonna get called out on a QRF. And we would get called out on QRFs pretty regularly. Not, not all the time, but I mean, it was no, it was a high, it was a decent percentage, not a high percentage, but there was a decent percentage that we'd get a call that said, hey, we need QRF out here. We need QRF over there. We'd be like, cool, let's, cool. You need quick reaction for us, meaning troops are in trouble. Hold on while we refuel our vehicles. No, no, we're never gonna do that.

• 1:53:41Speaker 01

  And that's not to mention the precedent, right? Where, you know, and this goes for anything, whatever. I know it's very prevalent with kids where, you know, they, they want to push up against the rule, not in some, you know, hostile way or whatever, just sort of like, let me see. Yeah. Like, you know, like, I don't know, no dessert during the week or something like this. And then it's like a weeknight, hey, can we have, come on, we've, you know, we've been.

• 1:54:02Jocko Willink?

  No.

• 1:54:04Jocko Willink?

  Not happening. We're not doing it.

• 1:54:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, you give them dessert that one day. It's kind of like, ooh, they know, like, ooh, sure, that's the rule, but under certain emotional circumstances, maybe we can get away with that one.

• 1:54:16Jocko Willink?

  The cool thing, I mean, and you know, hey, you know what? LPO is looking out for the boys.

• 1:54:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:54:21Jocko Willink?

  Which is part of the job, right? There's part, there's a push-pull, right? There's always that push-pull. He's looking out for the boys. He knows they're tired. Hey, look, even if we got called for QRF, we're not super effective because we've been up for 20, 30 hours, right?

• 1:54:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, huh.

• 1:54:37Jocko Willink?

  So we're not super effective. And he's probably thinking about that, too.

• 1:54:39Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, that's actually a good point. He, he would technically have like a little argument.

• 1:54:44Jocko Willink?

  He has an argument.

• 1:54:45Speaker 01

  You know, it's like, hey, we're like less effective and rest is important, as Patton said. So, hey, man. So, yeah, it makes sense.

• 1:54:52Jocko Willink?

  But.

• 1:54:52Speaker 01

  But.

• 1:54:53Jocko Willink?

  We had to hold the line on that one.

• 1:54:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, that makes sense. The QRF situation makes more sense.

• 1:54:57Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, QRF situation is important and...

• 1:54:59Speaker 01

  Well, you'd rather the guys be a little bit more tired than the, the vehicles be unempty.

• 1:55:05Jocko Willink?

  There was a good moment of silence on that one. The other good moment of silence, we, we got, this is again, my first deployment to Iraq. And we got, we got ambushed in a convoy and

• 1:55:20Jocko Willink?

  pretty typical, I was in the number two vehicle, pretty typical that the enemy wouldn't realize where we were because we would drive really fast, blacked out. They wouldn't realize until towards the end of the convoy. And so in this particular one, we got ambushed and it was mostly centered on the back vehicles, right? But I was looking, you know, as I'm looking at my field of fire, you know, I can see all kinds of tracers going by. I can see, and then they fired a couple RPGs that went over our convoy and exploded on my side of the road because they, they ambushed us from the other side. So this big ambush happens and, you know, the call comes out, which actually the call is made by the same guy that was asking the question earlier, is the LPO who's lead nav.

• 1:56:04Jocko Willink?

  And, you know, he's, he's a push-through, push-through, which is totally normal. So we did it. And then we just keep going, right? And I don't say anything.

• 1:56:13Jocko Willink?

  And, uh, and then my platoon chief, again, both my LPL and platoon chief, awesome guys, you know, we always had a good time, but he comes up on the radio and you can hear in his voice, he's a little bit, a little bit spun up, you know? Mm-hmm. And he's like, he's like, uh, he's like, "Hey Jaco, y-you, you heard who got ambushed back here?" And I'm just like, long moment of silence, and I said, "Roger."

• 1:56:41Jocko Willink?

  And that was it. We, we did what we had to do, but those are funny moments of silence that happened from time to time. Cause everyone's kind of, cause because in my platoons, in my task unit, no, talking on the radio was so limited, like no, basically no one talked on the radio, you know, unless you had something really important to say. Mm-hmm. And so when there was something on the radio, everyone was 100% listening to it. Yeah. And when someone was asking me a question, everyone was 1,000% listening to what my response is gonna be, especially when it's like, "Hey, we might get some more sleep," or, "Hey, we just got ambushed, does Jaco know?" It's like, both those people are going, "What are we gonna do?" Cause there's a possibility, it's like, "Hey, I'll stop, we're gonna turn around and go and hu-hunt

• 1:57:24Jocko Willink?

  down these people that ambushed us," which is not a good idea, and we didn't do it, but, you know, everyone's thinking, "Maybe I'm gonna say that," or, "Maybe I'm gonna say whatever." But everyone's listening to what my response is gonna be. Yep. Little moment of silence, dramatic effect, possibly. Possibly, yeah, possibly. Uh, or, I'm just actually, here's what's actually happening, I'm sitting here considering the situation, you know? Okay, is everyone okay? They must be, or we're getting a casualty report, or, "Hey, maybe we should go and to sleep before we..." I'm thinking through the actual situation, I'm not just, you know, trying to be a jerk. Right, trying to be cool. Trying to be cool, I'm actually thinking, "Okay, I know we got ambushed, I'm waiting

• 1:58:06Jocko Willink?

  for, is there's casualty?" I, I think, you know, I might as well say something like, "Are we up?" Or no, the push-through call comes, everyone calls, calls vehicles up, up from there, six is up, five is up, four is up, three's up, so I already know everyone's good, we're already good. There you go. Check.

• 1:58:23Jocko Willink?

  All right.

• 1:58:26Jocko Willink?

  This last section is called Care of Men.

• 1:58:32Jocko Willink?

  Which, once again, you know, you look at the, you look at the, uh, Leadership Strategy and Tactics Manual, and some of the most important things I try and make as clear as possible is that you gotta, you gotta care about your men, gotta care about your people. That's what you gotta do. That's what Mukuyama taught me. I mean, I wouldn't say Mukuyama taught me that, but when he said it, I was like, that's the underpinning of everything, you know? This thing that's been a, a tenet of my leadership principles. A, let's call it a, let's call it a,

• 1:59:13Jocko Willink?

  a, sort of a, a, a, flying below the radar tenet. You know, like, oh yeah, you gotta take care of your people, yeah. Totally get that, but when I heard Mukuyama, General Mukuyama talk about it, and we talked about Hackworth and just,

• 1:59:30Jocko Willink?

  I was like, oh yeah. It's not just, it's not just under the radar. It's the real thing. So, hence, General Patton, he's got an entire section called Care of Men. Officers are responsible not only for the conduct of their men in battle, but also for their health and contentment when not fighting. An officer must be the last man to take shelter from fire and first to move forward. Similarly, he must be the last man to look after his own comfort at the close of a march. He must see that his men are cared for. The officer must constantly interest himself in the rations of men. He should know his men so well that any sign of sickness or nervous strain

• 2:00:13Jocko Willink?

  will be apparent to him and he can take such, such action as may be necessary. Again, why is he talking about this? This is Patton, this is, you know, they show in the movie, the big scene where he slaps around the guy, he's a coward and all that stuff, get, I get this guy out of this, uh, ward. He had this reputation that he's like abusive. Freaking care about your men. And think about what he's saying here. Like the last, the, the last guy to move for cover. The last guy to take care of himself after a march.

• 2:00:43Jocko Willink?

  The rations go to the men first. Everything is about the troops. That's what a leader is.

• 2:00:51Jocko Willink?

  Uh, continue. He must look after his men's feet. See that they have properly fitting shoes in good condition. That their socks fit. Loose or tight socks make sore feet. He must anticipate change of weather and see that proper clothing and foot gear is asked for and obtained.

• 2:01:08Jocko Willink?

  So that's, that's what, that's the last thing that he talks about is caring for your men. The successful soldier wins battles cheaply so far as his own casualties are concerned. But he must remember that violent attacks, although costly at the time, save lives in the end.

• 2:01:29Jocko Willink?

  So, yes, that once again, it's the same message he's been giving.

• 2:01:35Jocko Willink?

  Violence, although it seems like it's going to increase casualties, if you attack violently, it will save lives in the end. And that, and that right there is the best way that you can care for your people. Have them ready, have them trained, have them disciplined, and then go on the attack.

• 2:02:00Jocko Willink?

  And this thing is signed GS Patton Jr., Lieutenant General, US Army, commanding.

• 2:02:08Jocko Willink?

  So, awesome information from Patton.

• 2:02:14Jocko Willink?

  Once again, and I got, I've got some more, we may even roll right into, I've got some more Patton stuff to talk about, you know, because there's some things that people freak out about, he's very flamboyant, right? Sure.

• 2:02:26Jocko Willink?

  Let's face it, that's not really my style, right? Flamboyance is not really my thing, right? Sure. So, he's got some things that we're gonna need to talk about, that we will. Perhaps we'll do it next time, but eventually we'll get to it. So Patton, don't throw the baby out with the bath water if you don't like that, those parts of him, because believe me, as flamboyant as this guy was, he was about discipline, he was about taking care of his people, and we can all learn a lot.

• 2:02:57Jocko Willink?

  We can also talk about the fact that, you know, he sometimes didn't play the game. And he didn't get the positions he wanted to, probably oftentimes because he didn't play the game. So we can talk about all that stuff. For now, we're gonna hold what we got.

• 2:03:13Jocko Willink?

  Just did some live gigs and I've done DC, New York, Austin, LA. Everything's sold out. Seattle and San Francisco still will come, but they're both already sold out. But anyways, it's been awesome. It's been an incredible experience. And meeting everyone and I can't, this isn't to ask you to come because they're already done. But I just wanted to say to everyone that came out to them, um, thank you for coming to them. They were incredible to be a part of. So, and I will

• 2:03:49Jocko Willink?

  schedule some more of them. And maybe Echo will come. I don't know.

• 2:03:54Speaker 01

  Maybe.

• 2:03:56Jocko Willink?

  Are you gonna come to Seattle?

• 2:03:58Speaker 01

  Um, San Francisco.

• 2:04:00Jocko Willink?

  San Francisco. Okay, cool. Sold out. So if someone was just kinda waiting to hear if you were gonna be there, too late.

• 2:04:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:04:09Jocko Willink?

  Uh, awesome. You know, with that, Echo Charles, we are trying to be, you know, we're taking advice from General Patton. We're trying to be more disciplined. We're trying to be more courageous in, we're trying to be physically hardened.

• 2:04:30Speaker 01

  Hardened.

• 2:04:30Jocko Willink?

  We're trying to be better. What do you know of that can perhaps help us in all those arenas?

• 2:04:38Speaker 01

  Echo. Aside from sharpening our shovels, we can, alright, we're gonna do jujitsu train today. You didn't, I did. You didn't. You, you were, uh, preoccupied doing various things.

• 2:04:53Jocko Willink?

  I was actually preparing for this podcast, which, which is what I have to do.

• 2:04:57Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, I prepared for this.

• 2:04:59Jocko Willink?

  No, no, no. You press record, which is great.

• 2:05:02Speaker 01

  It's more of a mental preparation, but, you know, nonetheless, I feel good about that. How'd you feel? Did you, okay, be honest, were you like?

• 2:05:11Jocko Willink?

  My goal was, I did not make my goal. My goal was to be prepped by noon. Come in here, train, shower, record. That's, that was the plan. I did not accomplish my mission. So I had to prioritize and execute. We owe this podcast to our people. We will not prioritize my personal agenda of training above taking care of the troops. The troops expect a podcast. On Wednesday, Tuesday night even. We must deliver. That means I have work to do. I know it doesn't mean anything to you. I know it doesn't interfere with any part of your personal life, any part of your personal time,

• 2:05:56Jocko Willink?

  but I have work to do.

• 2:05:57Speaker 01

  It does, it's just more psychological.

• 2:05:59Jocko Willink?

  Okay, well, you keep telling yourself that. I'll be over here grinding.

• 2:06:07Speaker 01

  You're the man, of course. And, you know, I only say that because when you came in at the tail end of training, you know, you're ready to, you know, to record and you're prepped and you're good.

• 2:06:18Jocko Willink?

  Even the way you made me look, you looked at me in a way that I was like, okay, cool. I can get changed right now.

• 2:06:23Speaker 01

  What's what is that what you just said was written all over your face? Like you came in, there were some, you know, there were some people here, you know, boom, Jaco's, you know, here taking some pictures or whatever. And meanwhile, I'm looking at you and you see me and I see in your face like, oh, man, you're, you're training, like you're lucky, you know? And here's the actual funny part, I'm just remembering that part. The funny part is when you walked out on the mat, you took off your shoes, you walk out of the mat. And when you walk up on the mat, I think this is just kind of in all of us anyway. It's where you sort of like, you feel like, for lack of a better term, the energy of the mat, you know? So that's why it feels weird if you, if you have your regular clothes on and you walk out on the mat. You're like, bro, you feel weird. It's not, it's not jamming or it's not vibing together, you know?

• 2:07:07Speaker 01

  So you walked out on the mat. Like the look in your eye, kinda like you were kinda warming up or something like you're

• 2:07:14Jocko Willink?

  Cause think of how many thousands and thousands and thousands of times when I take off my flip flops, my slippers, what we used to call them in Hawaii. I take off my slippers and go on the mat. It's like, that means something. That's like, it's like when I used to put down my nods on my, you know, on my helmet. You flip down your nods, all of a sudden it's like, okay, it's on. You lock and load your weapon, you're like, okay, it's on. You lock and load your weapon all the time, you get, do it in your, you're like, okay, cool. This is it. So I walk out on the mat, take off my, take off my slippers and walk out on the mat.

• 2:07:46Speaker 01

  You felt a little something.

• 2:07:48Jocko Willink?

  And, you know, it's like, yeah, and I see you kinda giving off a vibe, right?

• 2:07:56Speaker 01

  Cause you were, you were literally pacing. And here's the thing, we weren't being hostile, making jokes like that kinda, it wasn't like, hey, why aren't you, it wasn't that. We were talking about something like, for like legitimately normal, but you were pacing out there. I was like, oh.

• 2:08:09Jocko Willink?

  I wanted to freaky train really bad today and that pissed me off, so.

• 2:08:12Speaker 01

  Hey man, that's life. Actually, that's a good, okay, so jujitsu, that's one of the many good things about jujitsu, and I mentioned this before, where it's like so good exercise, so good mentally, physically, like all this stuff.

• 2:08:23Jocko Willink?

  It's literally fun.

• 2:08:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's literally fun. Yeah, like if you come in, and this goes for me, even if I'm like there just to record or whatever, and not to train for, like I'm here for a specific reason, not to train or whatever, and I come and I see people training or whatever, I literally feel like I'm missing out. Like I'm missing, you know how like when your friends go hang out and go do something and you gotta stay home and like do homework or whatever?

• 2:08:44Jocko Willink?

  For sure.

• 2:08:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, it felt like you felt, you kinda missed out a little.

• 2:08:48Jocko Willink?

  I did, I did.

• 2:08:48Speaker 01

  Sorry, bro. It's all good. But this, to me, this podcast is very good, so I'm kinda glad you did. And the good news about it is jujitsu is gonna be here. It's gonna be here tomorrow, it's gonna be here next week.

• 2:08:57Jocko Willink?

  But I can't ever get this day back of training. That might have been a little something that I could have learned.

• 2:09:02Speaker 01

  Or maybe next time it's gonna be a little something. It's all part of the game. Ups, downs, you don't go every single day.

• 2:09:07Jocko Willink?

  Almost sounded like a threat.

• 2:09:10Jocko Willink?

  And it is not too late to train right now, because we will do it.

• 2:09:14Speaker 01

  Uh, not a threat, you know, I'm just saying that's, that's how it goes sometimes.

• 2:09:17Jocko Willink?

  You said a little something.

• 2:09:20Speaker 01

  I meant learning wise.

• 2:09:22Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 2:09:22Speaker 01

  You know, nonetheless, hey, it will be here and actually which kinda lends support to the point that, hey, not everyone is doing jujitsu right now, but guess what?

• 2:09:33Jocko Willink?

  It should be.

• 2:09:34Speaker 01

  If you go tomorrow, it'll be, it'll be there. If you walk in tomorrow.

• 2:09:37Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. And also if you walk in and it's your first day and you don't know anything about it, there's other people, everyone on that mat has been there. There's nothing to be embarrassed about. Go get on the mat.

• 2:09:46Speaker 01

  And in fact, chances are, that's a good point right there, because chances are more people are gonna be like new people than advanced people. They could probably, what would you say would be the average if you go on any random, and granted, a lot of times they have a beginner's class, which is even bigger percentage of new people.

• 2:10:03Jocko Willink?

  I think it's a bell curve.

• 2:10:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like half, right?

• 2:10:06Jocko Willink?

  Well, a bell curve, a bell curve, bottom 10%, like they don't know anything. Or they, bottom 10%, three months or less of training. The middle is whatever, anywhere between three months and five years. And then there's like the top 10% have been training for, actually at our school is a lot more than, yeah, we're a little heavy on the top end. We're heavy on the bottom end too.

• 2:10:30Speaker 01

  No, I, well, maybe, you know what, no, no, you're, our school is so big and like, you know, there's the gi part, there's no gi, then it's like where, um, you know, like the advanced guys.

• 2:10:41Jocko Willink?

  I'm just saying like, when I get on the mat, there's most, there's so many people that have five years, eight years, 10 years, it's a lot of people.

• 2:10:49Speaker 01

  That's true.

• 2:10:50Jocko Willink?

  But there's a bunch of people too that just started.

• 2:10:51Speaker 01

  Right. You know what, what it could be, and then again, I'm over here just researching it right now in my head where it could.

• 2:10:59Jocko Willink?

  That's not research, by the way.

• 2:11:00Speaker 01

  No, no, no, not at all, actually.

• 2:11:01Jocko Willink?

  That's just thinking.

• 2:11:04Speaker 01

  Anyway, when you go down the mat and you see all our advanced guys, or should I say all the guys that are here that are advanced, chances are you know them. So they're like, oh man, we have a lot of them, you know, whatever. But meanwhile-

• 2:11:16Jocko Willink?

  I could say the same thing about people that I don't know.

• 2:11:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, I guess. Yeah, that's true too.

• 2:11:21Jocko Willink?

  Cause I don't, oh, I don't know that guy. He must not ever trained before. He could be training for a year.

• 2:11:25Speaker 01

  Right. Yeah, that's true too.

• 2:11:27Jocko Willink?

  I mean, most, if someone's training here for a year, I know him.

• 2:11:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:11:30Jocko Willink?

  But anyways-

• 2:11:31Speaker 01

  Unless he's like a, yeah, different scheduled guy. But yeah, yeah, I think so. But and, but then you have to think about the belt distribution curve too. It's like super bottom heavy. Cause as you progress up the belt ranks, you either progress, yes, exactly right. Cause you progress out of the belt or out of jujitsu.

• 2:11:49Jocko Willink?

  Okay. So you mentioned gi, no gi. What does all that mean?

• 2:11:53Speaker 01

  Anyway, all right. Get a gi, get an origin gi. Everybody knows that's the best gi in the world, straight up factually. You mentioned facts versus opinions. This is a fact, not an opinion. Happens to be made in America, along with other stuff.

• 2:12:08Jocko Willink?

  Originmain.com?

• 2:12:10Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:12:10Jocko Willink?

  Is where we get these things that are made in America?

• 2:12:12Speaker 01

  All this stuff, including-

• 2:12:13Jocko Willink?

  Are they a hundred percent made in America?

• 2:12:14Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:12:15Jocko Willink?

  What about where the substances that they're made of? Where are those things from?

• 2:12:19Speaker 01

  What, like the cotton that's grown?

• 2:12:21Jocko Willink?

  Yes.

• 2:12:21Speaker 01

  So they can put it through the loom, to a million different moving parts in the loom, by the way. And made into the fabric that is woven and then constructed into various items.

• 2:12:33Jocko Willink?

  Okay. Including gees and including jeans.

• 2:12:37Speaker 01

  Oh yeah. Jeans.

• 2:12:39Jocko Willink?

  Uh, boots.

• 2:12:40Speaker 01

  Boots.

• 2:12:43Jocko Willink?

  T-shirts.

• 2:12:44Speaker 01

  Shirts.

• 2:12:44Jocko Willink?

  Rash guards.

• 2:12:45Speaker 01

  Rash guards.

• 2:12:46Jocko Willink?

  So-

• 2:12:46Speaker 01

  Goodies.

• 2:12:47Jocko Willink?

  Clothing is what we're talking, beanies. Okay. So you can get a lot of clothing, made in America, best clothing ever.

• 2:12:53Speaker 01

  In the world factually.

• 2:12:54Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. How many jeans have I owned in my life? Probably, okay, my adult life, I've probably owned, let's call it, not a lot, just not a lot of jeans. Cause I, I would have jeans for like eight years, right?

• 2:13:10Jocko Willink?

  Maybe eight years is long. But anyways, I'd have jeans for a while.

• 2:13:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:13:15Jocko Willink?

  Uh, I probably had 20 pairs of jeans in my adult life.

• 2:13:21Jocko Willink?

  Now, my jeans, Origin jeans, are the best jeans that I've ever worn. Now, I can't say I've ever worn a pair of $640, uh, what are those called?

• 2:13:34Speaker 01

  Skinny jeans?

• 2:13:35Jocko Willink?

  No, I haven't owned any of those. I haven't had any of the, uh...

• 2:13:39Speaker 01

  Low-rise bootcut.

• 2:13:41Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, like, oh, well, no, I mean, what's the word? Designer jeans. Even, even at the height, even at the height of designer jeans, which, by the way, at the height of all that stuff, MMA was totally wrapped around that stuff.

• 2:13:59Speaker 01

  Oh, right.

• 2:14:00Jocko Willink?

  Like, if you were to develop, if you were to, like, find a picture in, in 2006, 2008, of a bunch of MMA guys, of which you and I both were, there is a high percentage, that 50% of the individuals in that picture, would be wearing jeans that had non-functional aspects to them.

• 2:14:28Speaker 01

  I think you're right about that.

• 2:14:29Jocko Willink?

  And therefore, they would be determined as designer jeans, and they cost, you know, several hundred dollars.

• 2:14:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:14:36Jocko Willink?

  So, even at the height of that, you cannot find pictures of me in jeans that have non-functional aspects. You can only find me in jeans that have functional aspects.

• 2:14:47Speaker 01

  I believe, I believe that, yes.

• 2:14:49Jocko Willink?

  So, check. You can get jeans from Origin that are functional.

• 2:14:53Speaker 01

  Functional, slightly designer.

• 2:14:57Jocko Willink?

  There's no designer to Origin. Zero.

• 2:15:00Speaker 01

  No, no, no fashion, no fashion.

• 2:15:03Jocko Willink?

  No, no fashion. Form follows function. So, do they look appropriate? Absolutely.

• 2:15:11Speaker 01

  There you go.

• 2:15:11Jocko Willink?

  Do they have spirit? Yes. Do they have soul? Affirmative.

• 2:15:17Speaker 01

  I agree. Well, they're the only jeans that I wear. So, you know, obviously I'm not, I'm, I'm trying to tease out the

• 2:15:23Jocko Willink?

  Oh, you got yourself a pair? You milked the pair?

• 2:15:26Speaker 01

  Not, not the Delta 68 ones. You know, just the regular, you know, functional ones that I got. Oh, yeah. Very good though. Nonetheless, yes. Originmain.com. You can wear, get all this stuff. Also, supplements. Joint Warfare, Krill Oil. These are for your joints. Maintain, stay in the game. For real. You can be super strong. You can squat 600 pounds, literally. If you can squat 600 pounds, but your joints are jamming you up, but you're not squatting nothing.

• 2:15:52Jocko Willink?

  Nope.

• 2:15:53Speaker 01

  Maybe you'll do your warm-up set and then just sort of not squat or whatever, deadlift, whatever you're doing. Nonetheless, Joint Warfare, Krill Oil, these are very good for your joints and they will keep you in the game.

• 2:16:04Jocko Willink?

  Discipline and Discipline Go. I'm not going to say that I lived off of it on my last week and a half, where I was getting zero sleep and just having to do interviews with people.

• 2:16:17Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, those things end at what? Nine technically, but you just go, right? Cause you don't like leave.

• 2:16:23Jocko Willink?

  Oh, no, no, no, that's cool. No, the, the live gigs for sure, but getting interviewed by whatever, different news channels. I had to wake up at one o'clock in the morning to go on Coast to Coast AM. Have you ever listened to that?

• 2:16:37Speaker 01

  Uh, not that I know of.

• 2:16:38Jocko Willink?

  Anyways, I, I was up at one o'clock, I went one to three and then at whatever, 6:45, I was sitting in a studio on national TV, getting interviewed, you know, like, so no sleep, no food, no factor. Guess what? Discipline Go, get some. You can feel it, but the can, you can feel it. Mix up some Jaco Palmer, totally good to go. Get, get your A-game on and it, and take yourself one of the Discipline Go pills. Get that hitter. Molk, by the way.

• 2:17:18Speaker 01

  Yeah. Molk. Is there?

• 2:17:24Speaker 01

  Molk, I was like, because I've been, you know, have the big containers.

• 2:17:28Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:17:28Speaker 01

  But I have the packages left over from mustard, whatever.

• 2:17:30Jocko Willink?

  That must be nice.

• 2:17:31Speaker 01

  Do? Does Origin?

• 2:17:33Jocko Willink?

  Yes.

• 2:17:33Speaker 01

  Sell the packs?

• 2:17:34Jocko Willink?

  Yes, we do.

• 2:17:35Speaker 01

  Okay, so yeah, if you just real for real, just want to hit her. That's hit her by the. Anyway, yeah, so yeah, Molk, extra protein in the form of a dessert. Hitter or otherwise. Hitter or full dessert.

• 2:17:47Jocko Willink?

  And don't forget about the Warrior Kid Molk as well for the kid. So that way you don't have to kid your, feed your kid poison unbeknownst to them. They think you're giving them a treat.

• 2:17:57Speaker 01

  Which you are.

• 2:17:57Jocko Willink?

  Which you are. An evil treat. If it's filled with sugar or you can give them something that's good for you.

• 2:18:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, the front and.

• 2:18:04Jocko Willink?

  Something that's good for them.

• 2:18:06Speaker 01

  So remember, you know, the, the deal with the devil, right? You know, the deal with the devil, that whole expression.

• 2:18:10Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 2:18:11Speaker 01

  So I'm like, well, what does that even mean? That's, you know what it is? And it's really kind of simple and you actually essentially talk about it. It's like basically you do something for a short term versus the expenses at the long term.

• 2:18:21Jocko Willink?

  The devil wants you to take the short term scenario.

• 2:18:24Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, so that's what the, the treats a lot of the time for the kids are. It's the deal with the devil. It's like, oh my gosh, they're so happy with you. Oh my gosh, they're so, you know, they're behaving so well right now. Because of the treat and they're so happy. Look at their little smiles on their face.

• 2:18:39Jocko Willink?

  Look at their little diabetic souls being saved by sugar. No!

• 2:18:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's the devil collecting, collecting on his deal.

• 2:18:47Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:18:48Speaker 01

  So don't do that.

• 2:18:49Jocko Willink?

  Jaco White Tea.

• 2:18:50Speaker 01

  Yes, also Jaco White Tea. I'm into the cans more than the brew.

• 2:18:55Jocko Willink?

  I'm into both.

• 2:18:57Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, I could see that.

• 2:18:59Jocko Willink?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:19:00Speaker 01

  But yeah, I'm more into the cans. I like to, by the way.

• 2:19:02Jocko Willink?

  Right on.

• 2:19:04Speaker 01

  Also, Jaco's store, it's called Jaco Store. And this is where you can get more shirts, more hoodies, beanies.

• 2:19:13Jocko Willink?

  Rash guards.

• 2:19:13Speaker 01

  Rash guards. Oh yeah, more representative of the path directly.

• 2:19:21Jocko Willink?

  Indeed. You're looking at me like you want me to say something else.

• 2:19:24Speaker 01

  No, no, no.

• 2:19:24Jocko Willink?

  Say, yes, you're right.

• 2:19:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, all right. Yeah. Well, there you go.

• 2:19:27Jocko Willink?

  Your statement is approved.

• 2:19:28Speaker 01

  There you go. Even Jaco said.

• 2:19:29Jocko Willink?

  You know what's funny? Actually, what's funny about you saying this is when I see someone and like at the live events, of course, saw a lot of people that were that were representing on the path. And I would say to them, you're representing

• 2:19:43Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 2:19:43Jocko Willink?

  on the path.

• 2:19:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:19:46Jocko Willink?

  So it's your little statement that you make about representing on the path has now become part of the lexicon of the troopers.

• 2:19:56Speaker 01

  Good.

• 2:19:57Jocko Willink?

  There you go, Echo Charles.

• 2:19:58Speaker 01

  Well, good. Yeah, I feel like that's sort of, sort of what.

• 2:20:01Jocko Willink?

  There's your contribution. Pressing record and saying that.

• 2:20:06Speaker 01

  The lexicon.

• 2:20:07Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:20:07Speaker 01

  What does lexicon mean?

• 2:20:08Jocko Willink?

  Like the verbiage, the words that we use.

• 2:20:11Speaker 01

  All right. Boom. There you go. And yes, it is always coming. Let's face it, man. Like you see it anywhere. Even at an event, you see somebody representing, you're like, you know, you feel a little something.

• 2:20:21Jocko Willink?

  There's a connection.

• 2:20:22Speaker 01

  There's a connection. Yep. Big time. And the last JacoStore.com. If you like something, get something. Represent, man. Represent. I'll see you in the wild. I'll recognize.

• 2:20:32Jocko Willink?

  And if you like listening to this podcast, which if you don't, you're not hearing this right now. So I guess we're just talking to the people, everyone that's listening to this right now. Cause if you don't like the podcast, you're not listening. So if you do, subscribe to it.

• 2:20:44Speaker 01

  Yes. Is it important to subscribe? It's not not important. It's not a throwaway thing. So it must be. But yeah.

• 2:20:54Jocko Willink?

  Do you think when you subscribe to the podcast, it's sort of like when you were a little kid and you got some new sneakers and it makes you feel a little bit faster? When you actually click subscribe, are you like, yeah, you know, it's a level of commitment that you're making to the, you know, to the path.

• 2:21:10Speaker 01

  Yeah. Kind of. It's more of a symbol.

• 2:21:13Jocko Willink?

  Not hitting you, huh?

• 2:21:14Speaker 01

  I feel like it's more of a symbolic commitment because let's face it, you can just, you click unsubscribe just as easy, easily as subscribe, you know, in case like if you don't like it or whatever. But you know what? Functionally, no, functionally, look, if you live, depends on where you listen to it. I get it. But functionally, you click subscribe, it goes into your little, that little part where you don't have to do a search now or nothing like this. And boom, you know, it's in your, it's in your whole thing.

• 2:21:38Jocko Willink?

  It's part of your day.

• 2:21:38Speaker 01

  Part of your day.

• 2:21:39Jocko Willink?

  Part of your life. So I think I'm actually correct.

• 2:21:42Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:21:43Jocko Willink?

  And your initial assessment of my statement is wrong. When you subscribe, you take one step further down the path.

• 2:21:52Speaker 01

  That is true.

• 2:21:55Jocko Willink?

  You are correct. Cool. And don't forget about the grounded podcast, which I'm sure we'll do another one. And don't forget about the warrior kid podcast, which I will get some of those done. And don't forget about warrior kid soap, IrishOaksRanch.com. It's a warrior kid who's actually got a business going. Young Aiden, making soap so that what week his contribution to society, making soap so that we all can.

• 2:22:24Jocko Willink?

  Stay clean.

• 2:22:26Speaker 01

  Also YouTube for the video version of this podcast. A lot of people watch it. Makes sense. In fact, you know, sometimes, not all the time, but sometimes the video version will come out, you know, a half day, sometimes even a day later than the than the audio.

• 2:22:41Jocko Willink?

  Some people freak out about that.

• 2:22:42Speaker 01

  Well.

• 2:22:42Jocko Willink?

  Where's the YouTube?

• 2:22:44Speaker 01

  Where is the when's when's it coming out? And it's kind of like, hey, the, no, they say, when's the podcast coming out? Or say, brother, the podcast been out. But, and I'm like, no, you know what? They like, they watch it. And it makes sense too. Smart TVs and whatnot. And last, we do have a YouTube channel for this method of consumption.

• 2:23:02Jocko Willink?

  You know, Ty, young Ty from Origin?

• 2:23:03Speaker 01

  Yes, I do.

• 2:23:04Jocko Willink?

  He, him and his friends, they like, on a Friday night, they'll like, uh, put, put YouTube on and just watch the podcast, watch Rogan's podcast, whatever. Like that's, that's what they're doing.

• 2:23:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:23:17Jocko Willink?

  As if they're watching UFC, but no, they're watching us talk about, you know, patent or whatever.

• 2:23:23Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, and it kind of makes sense where you, when you think about it. Okay. So the content wise, okay, good. The content is the content. It's good content, but to sit around and watch like, remember like old school back in the day? I don't know. 60 minutes. I'm sure it's still on, but whatever. It's like, oh yeah. 60 minutes special with, I don't know, Michael Jordan or what, I don't know, whoever they have on there. And it's just one person talking to the other person, asking questions, a Q and A, essentially.

• 2:23:46Jocko Willink?

  I guess people watched it. This is the same thing.

• 2:23:48Speaker 01

  Same thing. Except the content's a little bit different, of course. So that's.

• 2:23:53Jocko Willink?

  Content's better.

• 2:23:54Speaker 01

  I think it's better, yes.

• 2:23:56Jocko Willink?

  You know what's, I mean, yeah, because sixty minutes isn't even sixty minutes.

• 2:23:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:24:00Jocko Willink?

  Because there's commercials in there and then there's three stories. So you're actually getting twelve minutes or seven minutes. What, what do you, what can you learn about Patton's theories of combat in seven minutes?

• 2:24:10Speaker 01

  Just learn like maybe partially one of them, maybe.

• 2:24:13Jocko Willink?

  Maybe.

• 2:24:14Speaker 01

  Maybe.

• 2:24:15Jocko Willink?

  Don't do that.

• 2:24:16Speaker 01

  Nonetheless, Ty, keep that up, um, and all his friends hanging with him. Yeah, man, keep that up. That's good.

• 2:24:20Jocko Willink?

  Psychological warfare. Oh, yeah, YouTube channel.

• 2:24:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, we have YouTube. That's, that was the point of my whole, uh, thing.

• 2:24:26Jocko Willink?

  Oh, and people should subscribe to it?

• 2:24:29Speaker 01

  I say they should, yeah. It's beneficial.

• 2:24:32Jocko Willink?

  It is. The thing that's cool is you're, it influences what you see on your YouTube home, homepage.

• 2:24:38Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:24:39Jocko Willink?

  Which I'm, look, I have YouTube Red.

• 2:24:42Speaker 01

  Me too.

• 2:24:42Jocko Willink?

  Or whatever, YouTube Premium.

• 2:24:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:24:44Jocko Willink?

  They called it now. It used to be Red. I'm old school. And look, I'm not trying to, I'm not trying to make Google more money by telling you to get YouTube Red. Or YouTube Premium, but it's nine bucks a month and you don't have to watch a single advertisement on YouTube ever again.

• 2:24:59Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, because they'll sneak them in the middle of the podcast. They'll sneak them in.

• 2:25:03Jocko Willink?

  I know I saw on YouTube comments on one of our podcasts, someone said, uh, can't believe you're advertising and I can't believe the advertisement that popped up at whatever. And I said, can't believe you won't pay nine dollars a month and never have or have to watch the advertisement again. Premium YouTube.

• 2:25:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:25:22Jocko Willink?

  Worth every penny. I don't throw that out there either, man. You know me. I don't like to spend that extra money.

• 2:25:28Speaker 01

  Right. And, and, but it does make sense because like, okay, so I have like a, a handful of YouTube channels. And they're not all premium. So when I go to the other channels to do whatever, and then I like whatever, forget to sign back in or whatever. And then the commercial will pop up. I'm like, bro, like.

• 2:25:44Jocko Willink?

  You're like traumatized.

• 2:25:45Speaker 01

  Right. It's an event. It's an event. Yeah.

• 2:25:48Jocko Willink?

  That'll happen to me like, uh, I'll be, my, I'll be, one of my kids will show me something. Oh, hey, watch this YouTube video. And so they're like, I'll go, oh, cool. Let me see. And they pass me their phone or whatever. I'll click play and I'll, uh, pops an advertisement and I'll throw the phone at the wall.

• 2:26:04Jocko Willink?

  Get a job and get YouTube Premium anyways. Don't forget about psychological warfare on iTunes, Google Play, MP3 platforms. A little something to help you maintain your discipline when it counts. And also to help you maintain your discipline, we got flip side canvas, which is owned by Dakota Meyer. Help you visually maintain your discipline. Also got Warrior Kid stuff on there. We got Mikey and the Dragon stuff on there. All kinds of good stuff on flipsidecanvas.com. As far as books go, got some books. We got the Leadership Strategy and Tactics Field Manual. Thank you everyone for getting that book. Appreciate it. It's live now in stores everywhere.

• 2:26:48Jocko Willink?

  If you need to get some for every single human being that you know, you can get them. They're available. Got Way of the Warrior Kid 3 and Way of the Warrior Kid 2 and Way of the Warrior Kid 1. So check those out as well. If you have a kid, if you know a kid, if you want to help a kid, if you want to help a kid become a better human being and to literally have a better life, get them those books. Mikey and the Dragons, same thing. Kids are scared. The world is a horrible place. Let them learn how to overcome their fear. Mikey and the Dragons. Discipline is Freedom Field Manual. How to Get After It. Extreme Ownership, Dichotomy of Leadership. Myself and my brother Leif Babin,

• 2:27:31Jocko Willink?

  talking about the principles that we learned in combat and how you can apply them into your business and into your life too. You can also have one of us come and talk to your company. One of us on the Echelon Front team. You know who they are. And what we do is solve problems through leadership. So go to echelonfront.com for details on that EF Online. Leadership training is not an inoculation. You need to follow up. You need to drill. And the way you do that is with EFOnline.com. Interactive leadership training. We have the muster. Muster coming up.

• 2:28:13Jocko Willink?

  Go to extremeownership.com if you want to come to a two day seminar, conference, engagement about leadership.

• 2:28:25Jocko Willink?

  There's three of them this year. Everyone that we've ever done has sold out. These are going to sell out too. And once they sell out, you can't come. And there's nothing we can do about it. We can't, like, we have the space, and then it sells out. There's no more space. So if you want to come, go to extremeownership.com, and then EF Overwatch and EF Legion. If you need people at your business that know how to win, and know how to lead, and understand extreme ownership and the principles therein, then go to EF Legion or EF Overwatch. And if you are a military veteran, transitioning out of the military, and transitioning into your next mission, go to EF Overwatch or EF Legion. And we will connect you with the

• 2:29:09Jocko Willink?

  company that is waiting for you to come and lead. And if you want to hear more from Echo Charles, if you want to hear more from me, if you have a question, a comment, an answer, then you can get in touch with us through the interwebs, on Twitter, on Instagram, and on the Face. Echo is at EchoCharles, and I am at Jocko Willink. And thanks to everyone for listening to this podcast. A podcast that would not be possible without your

• 2:29:47Jocko Willink?

  So thanks for listening, and thanks for spreading the word, and thanks for telling your friends, and thanks for getting some DEF core gear, or some Origin gear, all of which supports the podcast. And of course, the true reason for this podcast's existence is because of the safety and security we receive from the soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines who defend us with their very lives. So thanks to all of you, and to our police and law enforcement, our firefighters and paramedics, our EMTs and dispatchers, our correctional officers, and Border Patrol, and Secret Service, and all of you first responders, you also.

• 2:30:30Jocko Willink?

  Provide us with safety and security and we thank you for that and to everyone else out there, remember, remember that like what Patton said, all heroes are not storybook combat fighters.

• 2:30:49Jocko Willink?

  No, every single man plays a vital role. Everybody has a job to do. Every man is a vital link in a great chain. Every man does his job. So don't every think that the job that you're doing is unimportant. You're playing a role. And Patton makes it clear that when you're doing your job, the key is don't ever let up. Don't ever let up. Instead, every minute of every day, go out there and get after it. And until next time, this is Echo and Jaco. Out.