John Gregory Smith

We have chef & Instagram sensation John Gregory-Smith on the podcast this week! John brought round the most delicious monkfish curry and beef coconut rice from his brand new traybake cookbook, and mum made a gorgeous pear and chocolate tart for pud. We laughed non-stop with John - he told us about training to cook with Gordon Ramsey, his absolute love of Christmas, how to make the perfect festive gravy, eating his way round the Middle East, the ultimate kitchen gadgets, when Delia Smith introduced him to pesto, and why East 17 play a very important part in his family’s Christmas traditions! Thank you for the most delicious lunch John, that recipe is absolutely going straight on the regular meal list! John’s brand new cook book ‘The Greatest Traybake Cookbook ever’ is released on the 29th January, and available to pre-order now! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:13Speaker 01

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• 1:06Jessie Ware?

  Hello and welcome to Table Manners. I'm Jessie Ware and I'm sitting opposite Mum, who has managed to find something that's very kind of on the theme with Wicked being out. You've got green and pink and then you've added the Lenny flair with a little dash of leopard.

• 1:21Speaker 04

  And your shoes.

• 1:22Jessie Ware?

  It's quite genius.

• 1:23Speaker 04

  And your shoes.

• 1:24Jessie Ware?

  See? Oh my god, the leopard print shoes. Where did you get them from, Mum?

• 1:27Speaker 04

  Clarks.

• 1:28Jessie Ware?

  Oh, Fabi, are they comfortable?

• 1:29Speaker 04

  So comfortable.

• 1:30Jessie Ware?

  Oh, I'm thrilled for you. Also, should we talk about the fact that we were at Euston Station on Friday afternoon and our train to North Wales had been cancelled?

• 1:39Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:40Jessie Ware?

  And Lenny was in the most...

• 1:43Speaker 04

  It was a vintage leopard.

• 1:45Jessie Ware?

  Yeah. And so when you were complaining about the trains being cancelled, we also had fans coming up to you.

• 1:52Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:52Jessie Ware?

  And revealing their leopard print in honour of you.

• 1:56Speaker 04

  Yeah, total leopard, total leopard.

• 2:01Jessie Ware?

  How are you?

• 2:03Speaker 04

  Well, I've got a sty.

• 2:04Jessie Ware?

  Oh, working too hard.

• 2:05Speaker 04

  Yeah, um, but besides that, I'm fine.

• 2:08Jessie Ware?

  Why do you think you've got sty?

• 2:09Speaker 04

  I think I'm run down, Jessie.

• 2:11Jessie Ware?

  Oh, snap.

• 2:12Speaker 04

  Lot of work going on.

• 2:13Jessie Ware?

  So we have been a bit lucky today.

• 2:17Speaker 04

  Well, you have?

• 2:18Jessie Ware?

  Well, yeah, actually, I have.

• 2:19Speaker 04

  I've done my bit.

• 2:20Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, thank you. Okay, I have been very lucky. And we have a chef coming over. We have the king of the tray bake, John Gregory Smith, coming over. And he's offered up, actually, let's be honest, we asked him to, the greatest tray bake cookbook ever. So he's making something.

• 2:40Speaker 04

  Great.

• 2:40Jessie Ware?

  At Lenny's request.

• 2:41Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 2:42Jessie Ware?

  So what is he making today?

• 2:43Speaker 04

  Well, he's doing a monkfish carillon curry, I think.

• 2:47Jessie Ware?

  Lovely.

• 2:48Speaker 04

  I'm desperate to see how you make it because I'm not good at making curries. I'm not a confident curry maker.

• 2:55Jessie Ware?

  Well, I think.

• 2:56Speaker 04

  He's good with spice.

• 2:57Jessie Ware?

  Well, we'll be chatting to him about this, but I think he's kind of prepped the sauce.

• 3:02Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 3:03Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, he's not going to make it here, Mum.

• 3:04Speaker 04

  Oh, I thought he might show me how to do it.

• 3:06Jessie Ware?

  That's not a show and tell.

• 3:07Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 3:08Jessie Ware?

  But he's going to do the fish here.

• 3:10Speaker 04

  Great.

• 3:10Jessie Ware?

  Um, so we're very excited to have him.

• 3:12Speaker 04

  Great.

• 3:13Jessie Ware?

  And then you've made pudding.

• 3:14Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 3:14Jessie Ware?

  What have you made?

• 3:15Speaker 04

  I've made a chocolate pear hazelnut and cardamom torte.

• 3:21Jessie Ware?

  Oh, nice. Whose recipe is that?

• 3:24Speaker 04

  From The Guardian, Helen Go, G O H. It looks quite nice.

• 3:29Jessie Ware?

  Amazing.

• 3:30Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 3:30Jessie Ware?

  John Gregory Smith, coming up on Table Minds.

• 3:41Jessie Ware?

  John Gregory Smith, thank you for being here.

• 3:43Speaker 05

  Oh, my God, thank you for having me. I'm very, very excited to be here.

• 3:45Jessie Ware?

  I think, as I just explained to you, I'm in like three different universes of mixing a record and doing album artwork. And then you've just brought beautiful, gorgeous energy and gifts. So first, we're gonna pop the champagne.

• 3:57Speaker 05

  Yeah, let's do it. I think it's a nice way to break the ice, doesn't it? Have a little glass, glass of fizz.

• 4:01Jessie Ware?

  And also, tell us what else you brought.

• 4:03Speaker 05

  Okay, so I bought some tray bake recipes from my book, Delish.

• 4:08Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 4:08Speaker 05

  I bought a cheese advent calendar.

• 4:11Jessie Ware?

  Who told you about this?

• 4:13Speaker 05

  Well, I just.

• 4:14Jessie Ware?

  Is it from a food PR?

• 4:15Speaker 05

  No, I just saw it and thought that it should be in all of our lives. And the dreams do come true, so that's why I bought it. It's delicious.

• 4:24Speaker 04

  A little tiny, little cube of cheese.

• 4:26Speaker 05

  Well, I haven't opened it yet, so I'm hoping that's what it is.

• 4:27Jessie Ware?

  Should we? Is it bad luck that we should open it?

• 4:30Speaker 04

  No, you can't open it.

• 4:31Jessie Ware?

  Why not?

• 4:31Speaker 05

  Why not? What will happen?

• 4:32Jessie Ware?

  Because I want to know, yeah, nothing's gonna happen.

• 4:34Speaker 04

  Father Christmas won't come.

• 4:35Jessie Ware?

  It won't exist, will it?

• 4:36Speaker 04

  You won't come.

• 4:37Jessie Ware?

  Okay. But I think maybe we should just see what December the first is.

• 4:42Speaker 05

  I think we should.

• 4:42Jessie Ware?

  I think we'll do that after dins.

• 4:44Speaker 05

  Are you worried?

• 4:45Speaker 04

  No.

• 4:46Speaker 05

  No, okay, fine.

• 4:46Jessie Ware?

  Have you been a distill, ma?

• 4:48Speaker 05

  Don't care.

• 4:50Jessie Ware?

  La Chaim, good things. Cheers, cheers.

• 4:53Speaker 04

  This should be to your new cookbook, the greatest tray bake cookbook ever.

• 4:59Speaker 05

  Just what it says on the tin, like Ron's hill. Yeah, thank you.

• 5:01Jessie Ware?

  So, so everything in there is a tray bake?

• 5:04Speaker 05

  Yes. So, basically, I've sort of morphed my cooking style.

• 5:09Speaker 04

  That is really delicious.

• 5:10Speaker 05

  So nice. And it was on offer as well, just saying.

• 5:13Jessie Ware?

  I love that for you.

• 5:14Speaker 05

  Love a bargain.

• 5:14Jessie Ware?

  No, absolutely.

• 5:16Speaker 05

  My cooking style has changed so much because I sort of cut my cloth, really, as a, as a food writer, because I didn't want to become a chef.

• 5:23Jessie Ware?

  Why didn't you want to become a chef?

• 5:24Speaker 05

  So, it's quite a weird but cool story. My sister, who I just adore, she's so cool. I'm very close to my family, very close. She was out on the raz in a bar in like the early noughties, and she met a little known chef called Gordon Ramsey. And I don't know what happened, but she basically said, "Give my brother a job." And he went, "Yeah, all right. Here's a fax number," right? This is how long ago it was. "Give him this fax number." And I was like, "Rosie, it won't be a real number. Like, this is just fake." So I faxed it and off it went.

• 5:58Jessie Ware?

  What do you write to Gordon Ramsey?

• 6:00Speaker 05

  I wrote sort of, "Hi, you met my sister in a bar, which sounds weird, and she said you'd give me a job." I mean, the whole thing sounds really bizarre, right? A fax comes back going, yeah, that's fine. He warned us about this. Call the, call this number and we'll set you up with a stash. It was Royal Hospital Road.

• 6:18Jessie Ware?

  Wow.

• 6:18Speaker 05

  I went for two weeks and worked in the kitchen at Royal Hospital Road. And my main job was.

• 6:24Jessie Ware?

  Was he there?

• 6:25Speaker 05

  He was there a little bit, but it was, um. I can't remember when it was, you know, when you reach a certain age, just everything kind of morphs into one. He, something horrific had happened to one of his chefs and he was very like on another planet. So he wasn't really there much. And he did breeze in and out and I was either like picking crabs. So you have to put, you have a huge box of crab.

• 6:44Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 6:44Speaker 05

  And you put a small spoon here and you go like this to pick out shells.

• 6:47Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 6:48Speaker 05

  Or you get the smallest brush known to man and brush, um, mushrooms, like the dirt off the mushrooms. And I'm very, very, very impatient to have like no attention span and talk too much. So it, it was just a strange place for me to be.

• 7:02Jessie Ware?

  So for you, it was like being in a silent retreat.

• 7:05Speaker 05

  It was very weird.

• 7:06Jessie Ware?

  It was like very, was it testing?

• 7:08Speaker 05

  It was just, it was both fascinating and boring all at once, if that makes sense.

• 7:13Jessie Ware?

  Did he shout at you?

• 7:14Speaker 05

  No, he, he was, he was so nice. And actually I met him a few years later and at a restaurant launch of his in, um. New York and he just beelined my table. He, I probably met him twice for about five minutes. And he was like, we might need some help picking mushrooms. And I was like, how the hell do you remember that?

• 7:31Jessie Ware?

  That's quite presidential.

• 7:33Speaker 05

  It was so cool.

• 7:34Jessie Ware?

  Do you feel like he'd been informed by somebody that you were there?

• 7:37Speaker 05

  I don't think so. Cause I was literally like.

• 7:38Jessie Ware?

  Wow, that's quite amazing.

• 7:41Speaker 05

  What he did say to me, cause I was like, how the hell do you remember that? And he said, I never forget a face, but I've got no idea of your name. And I was like, that's, you know, good skills. But it was, it was a very strange experience. Cause I was like, I'd always wanted to get into food my whole life. And I didn't know that there was such a thing as culinary school even existed. And then I had this opportunity and, and it was like. I probably didn't even understand at the time how amazing that opportunity was. And then I was, I was a bit deflated. So I was like, I don't really know what to do with it. We did go back actually as, um, it was quite hard to get a booking there. And we went as a family after I had worked there and I sort of said, oh, look, can we have, you know, my family, quite a big family. There'll be like eight of us.

• 8:23Speaker 05

  And I don't know whether you've ever been, but it's quite a small room. It's little tables and there's one sort of table in the middle and they gave us this table. And we all turned up and it was, you know, back in the day. Hammered. We'd been at some like, we'd been for pre-drinks with my mum, dad, and we'd got quite.

• 8:39Jessie Ware?

  Your fam- that family sounds quite fun.

• 8:41Speaker 05

  They're really, really good fun. And we were sort of very rowdy and we got in there and we sort of had, they were so sweet with me and they were like, we're gonna do the set menu, it's gonna be amazing. And it was just one, it was, we had one of the best nights ever. I think for the rest of the clientele there, they were like less enthused by us because we, you know, we drank, we only drank the house wine, but we sort of drank all of it. At one point, this gorgeous French man, he was like one of the maitre d's, came out and was explaining explaining what we were eating. My sister was like, I just don't understand, why are you serving chocolate mousse? I don't get it. He was like, it's a pork tureen.

• 9:14Jessie Ware?

  Oh my god.

• 9:16Speaker 05

  And then eventually they, I, I at one point, my mum was making friends with someone in the loos at one point. I was in the kitchen, like wielding a knife, trying to like, oh, I'll help you all prep. And then they just came up to him and went, you'll be thrilled to know we've ordered you a car. You can go anywhere you like. So that was, you know, that was that. But it was, um, it was a fun experience, but it made me kind of then figure out what, what on earth do I want to do in food?

• 9:41Speaker 04

  Yeah, but not have a restaurant.

• 9:42Speaker 05

  Not, definitely not have a restaurant.

• 9:44Jessie Ware?

  Do you ever get a reservation there again?

• 9:45Speaker 05

  No, we did, we did drunk book one when we were there though, and we cancelled it pretty quickly.

• 9:50Jessie Ware?

  I'm obsessed with your family.

• 9:52Speaker 05

  I suspect they were thrilled when we cancelled it as well. But it made me, it was weird because it was like before internet was really a thing. It was before social media. So I was like, I just don't know what to do. So I actually set up a food brand. So I, it was back in the day when you like yahoed something or asked jeez. Do you remember that?

• 10:09Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 10:09Speaker 05

  Like so long ago, so retro. And I was like, how do you set up a food brand? Like one thing came up because there was no information on the internet.

• 10:16Jessie Ware?

  There's no AI then.

• 10:17Speaker 05

  There was nothing. And, um, so I, I launched a food brand into Sainsbury's and it, it was all about, for me, I, I didn't like classic cooking because it was like French, Italian and English. And I like to eat it, but I don't want to cook it. So I was like, how do you kind of do more exciting cuisines? And that sort of started a very long. Food journey of doing lots of very random jobs within that industry to sort of where I am now, which is like sat in your kitchen a million miles away from that.

• 10:46Jessie Ware?

  What would you call yourself, like your job now?

• 10:49Speaker 05

  It's so weird, my job. So how would I just, so it's really weird. So I I kind of define it by it depends who I'm talking to.

• 10:56Jessie Ware?

  Okay.

• 10:57Speaker 05

  So if like I was at my parents' house for dinner on Tuesday with a lot of their mates, my mum is seventy nine, my dad's eighty and their friends are really cool. I just say I'm a chef.

• 11:05Jessie Ware?

  Okay.

• 11:06Speaker 05

  And I said, don't work in a restaurant, but I'm a chef. And then they kind of get you work within food.

• 11:10Jessie Ware?

  Okay.

• 11:11Speaker 05

  If I say content creator, they'll just go.

• 11:14Jessie Ware?

  Got it.

• 11:14Speaker 05

  But I think that is my job.

• 11:16Jessie Ware?

  Okay.

• 11:16Speaker 05

  I think it is. I mean, I do it every day. So and I get paid for it. That makes it a job, doesn't it? Yeah, I think I think by definition.

• 11:23Speaker 04

  Create your own recipes.

• 11:25Speaker 05

  Yes, that is true. And and very good recipes, you were probably about to say.

• 11:29Speaker 04

  Fabulous recipes.

• 11:30Jessie Ware?

  You you're and your content is so good because it's from what I from following you on Instagram, like you make very delicious things that are enticing, but also really doable.

• 11:42Speaker 05

  Yes. So I think when I consume food content myself, I either want to watch like very weird and wonderful. Did you know you can watch village life on YouTube? So you can watch like, so people in villages all around the world will sort of film their daily lives. And and a lot, everyone's going to get confused, but a lot of it is like cooking based. So I, for example, I love travelling and there's certain places that I can't get to, like Iran being one of them. So I got really fascinated by watching Iranian village people cooking.

• 12:12Jessie Ware?

  Right.

• 12:12Speaker 05

  And.

• 12:12Speaker 04

  Oh, so you watch cooking.

• 12:14Speaker 05

  Like, I love it. I love sort of like weird niche obscure stuff, but I'm not going to make that in the week. So for me, like when I make content, I want to do stuff that is like you on a Wednesday night, you can throw it together for the family, for a load of mates. And just be like, you know what? This is wicked and delicious. And I've made it. And that to me is a great recipe.

• 12:32Jessie Ware?

  Is there anyone that you modeled yourself on? Or do you feel like it's just been quite?

• 12:39Speaker 05

  I mean, who did I love when I was younger? I think, because I've been sort of doing so many different things for so long. You know, you sort of roll with the punches and morph with it, but like when I got into food, I loved Jamie Oliver when he came out with floppy hair down the spiral staircase. Well, he taught us you could chuck it in.

• 12:59Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 12:59Speaker 05

  Unlike Delia, who weighed a glug was wild, wasn't it? But then actually Delia was fascinating. So I remember watching a Delia show with my mum where she'd stand like that. And we went to M and S in Richmond to buy this paste that she told us all to buy. That was apparently huge in Italy called Pesto. And we were just like, this is wild. And we took this tub home and we literally like stared like, what do you do? And I was like, she stirs it into pasta. And, you know, back then, even my mum was like, we've got like, I don't know what pasta we've got. And it was just nuts. But I used to love her. And then, do you remember Ken Hom when he had a moustache? Loved that.

• 13:35Speaker 04

  But didn't you adore Nigella?

• 13:37Speaker 05

  She was just like, she purrs like a kitten and I love her.

• 13:41Speaker 04

  Famous all over the world. All my friends in Greece sit and watch Nigella's Christmas special.

• 13:46Speaker 05

  But she's just gorgeous.

• 13:48Speaker 04

  She's just so gorgeous.

• 13:49Speaker 05

  She's sort of aspirational, but same time she doesn't feel otherworldly. You know, she'll sort of do something utterly fabulous, but whilst with a bit of cream on the side of her face or something and just be wicked.

• 13:59Jessie Ware?

  And also she always has a fabulous kitchen.

• 14:02Speaker 05

  Fabulous. And I'm really into fairy lights and that woman is into fairy lights.

• 14:07Speaker 04

  She loves fairy lights.

• 14:08Jessie Ware?

  How, what does your kitchen look like? What have you got? Have you got an island?

• 14:12Speaker 05

  So I'm in a rental and I don't know how much I can actually say about this because I've completely changed my kitchen because I felt I'll just zhuzh it up within the confines of what I can do. So yeah, I've given it a nice zhuzh up, but it's a very nice kitchen. It's like. Bright and breezy, we put in lovely, because of filming, like.

• 14:33Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 14:34Speaker 05

  Light cabinets, light marble.

• 14:36Speaker 04

  Is that where you do all your filming?

• 14:37Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 14:38Jessie Ware?

  Let's take it back to your family.

• 14:39Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 14:39Jessie Ware?

  Your very fun, loving family.

• 14:42Speaker 05

  They are fun.

• 14:43Jessie Ware?

  Tell us, who was around the dinner table and what was a very kind of memorable dish from your childhood?

• 14:49Speaker 05

  So, where I grew up in Richmond, I had our family and then my two aunties with, so all my cousins, we all grew up within a few minutes' walk of each other. And we're still really, really close now, which is so nice. So there's not, no, six grandparents, my mum, dad are two. Nine cousins of which I'm one, and there's like twenty one grandchildren. So there's a lot of us. And we've always just hung out together. So like when we were little, you know, if it was a birthday on like a Tuesday night or whatever. Everyone would come for like a glass of wine and a Colin the Caterpillar. We were always sort of all together. And it's always been about food. Sunday roast were massive, curry, curry night was a big thing.

• 15:30Speaker 05

  Chris, I mean, Christmas dinner, I think, is one of my favourite events of the year with my family. I just, I literally love it.

• 15:38Speaker 04

  Who's cooking this year, darling?

• 15:39Speaker 05

  So I do majority of it.

• 15:41Speaker 04

  Yeah. Have you got a double oven?

• 15:43Speaker 05

  So my mum, so we cook at my mum, dad's. They've got double oven, but much to my father's disdain, he hates this. I cook the turkey the day before and I, because it's for thirty two people, that's a lot. And the main thing when you cook for thirty two people is carving takes hours. And if I'm wearing a lovely smart shirt or, you know, some fun cardy, I don't want it covered in turkey juice. And that's like forty minutes of cutting it. So I cut it and then set it in like a very thin turkey jus. So it stays very.

• 16:16Speaker 04

  Moist.

• 16:16Speaker 05

  Yeah, there's, you said it, not me.

• 16:18Speaker 04

  The word.

• 16:18Speaker 05

  It's very moist. And then you just bang it in the oven, reheat it for twenty minutes. And we always have late dinner. So we, we have dinner like at nine.

• 16:26Jessie Ware?

  At nine o'clock at night?

• 16:28Speaker 05

  We've always done, so do you know why we started doing it?

• 16:30Speaker 04

  Oh my god.

• 16:31Speaker 05

  It started when we were young because we had.

• 16:35Speaker 04

  You went out for a big walk?

• 16:36Speaker 05

  No, we went out for really big Christmas Eves. We, we really like to celebrate Jesus and it went until very late at night.

• 16:43Speaker 04

  Oh, so you went to church?

• 16:45Speaker 05

  No, to the pub.

• 16:45Jessie Ware?

  Okay.

• 16:49Speaker 05

  Oh yes, we were at church, celebrating, yeah, yeah. No, we were just in the pub. And then, um.

• 16:54Speaker 04

  So everyone was hungover.

• 16:55Speaker 05

  Everyone was deeply hungover and just like vile.

• 16:57Speaker 04

  And then you had a big brunch.

• 16:58Speaker 05

  And my mum used to get really cross because she'd be like, I've put so much effort in today and you're just all moping around with like rugs on, awful. And then, when everyone started having kids, they were like, actually, if we can do dinner, we can put the babies to bed and they won't bother us.

• 17:13Jessie Ware?

  Okay.

• 17:13Speaker 05

  So that's what, and we've just always done that.

• 17:15Jessie Ware?

  What about the, what about the 21 grandchildren?

• 17:18Speaker 05

  So now they're all there and they're all grown up and they're all like, they, so it used to be we'd have like the adult table and the kids table.

• 17:24Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 17:25Speaker 05

  And you know, it literally all just sweeps in.

• 17:26Speaker 04

  Nine is quite late though, even for posh people.

• 17:29Jessie Ware?

  That's so European of you.

• 17:30Speaker 05

  Oh, it's very European, darling.

• 17:32Speaker 04

  No, Europeans eat the night before.

• 17:34Jessie Ware?

  Okay, it's very Greek of you.

• 17:35Speaker 05

  Well, I mean, it's funny because we're, we're a very like, just, we're, I mean, my surname is about as British as you can get, do you know what I mean? It's two standard words. But no, we're, we're more like a Mediterranean family when we're all together. Everyone's just very loud, very yelly and loves the food.

• 17:49Speaker 04

  Nine o'clock is quite late.

• 17:50Speaker 05

  You'd love it, Lenny.

• 17:51Speaker 04

  Will you have pudding later as well?

• 17:53Speaker 05

  So we'd normally do, it's a bit like a buffet situation, if I'm honest as well, because there's so many people. You sort of lay everything out, everyone gets a plate. We've also done the table, you know where you're sitting, you know where you stand, you know what's going on. And then pudding again, so I will clear everything up and then I'll put out cheese pudding and then an alternative. Because I don't like Christmas pudding or mince pies, which is slightly weird.

• 18:14Jessie Ware?

  Do you just not like currants?

• 18:16Speaker 05

  I find cooked fruit bizarre.

• 18:20Jessie Ware?

  Oh.

• 18:21Speaker 05

  Oh my God, you haven't made cooked fruits there?

• 18:22Speaker 04

  I have.

• 18:23Jessie Ware?

  Oh my God, fuck, you have. No.

• 18:26Speaker 05

  It'll be delicious. I bet you'll win me over.

• 18:28Jessie Ware?

  No, it's a tort though. It's fine, you can take the pear out.

• 18:31Speaker 05

  Is it a ginormous mince pie?

• 18:33Speaker 04

  No, it's pear.

• 18:35Speaker 05

  It'll be delicious. Best thing ever.

• 18:36Jessie Ware?

  You can take.

• 18:37Speaker 05

  Oh, don't get worried. I'll love it. I'll literally love it.

• 18:39Jessie Ware?

  Well, you can just take the pear out.

• 18:41Speaker 04

  Yeah, you can. It's a pear and chocolate.

• 18:43Jessie Ware?

  No, it's a tort, a chocolate.

• 18:44Speaker 04

  Chocolate and hazelnut tort.

• 18:46Speaker 05

  So chocolate is one of my favourite things ever.

• 18:48Jessie Ware?

  Oh, well, you're really clawing this back.

• 18:50Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love everything, Lenny. No, I love chocolate. So yeah, so there'll be something else and then lots and lots of cheese. Like a lot of cheese, I think, you know.

• 18:59Jessie Ware?

  I I'm interested, your partner is.

• 19:02Speaker 05

  He's Croatian.

• 19:03Jessie Ware?

  Croatian. So how does he enter into this or is he very much like you're all.

• 19:08Speaker 04

  He's gone back to Croatia, I think.

• 19:10Speaker 05

  Well, no, he.

• 19:10Jessie Ware?

  He wanted his dinner at five.

• 19:13Speaker 05

  He would, he loves it. He he's sort of funny, you know, he's from a Mediterranean family, but their family's very little. And he just loves the big, loud vibes.

• 19:22Speaker 04

  What are you doing about Christmas presents this year?

• 19:24Speaker 05

  So I, um, okay, so I love Christmas, but I'm a massive Scrooge with presents. I just don't really bother. Cause there's so many people.

• 19:31Speaker 04

  Yeah, you can't do that.

• 19:32Speaker 05

  And what am I gonna buy? Like thirty kids, like their parents won't get them anyway.

• 19:37Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 19:37Speaker 05

  I can give them hugs, that's fun.

• 19:38Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 19:39Speaker 05

  Um, I'll get something for my mum and dad, cause they're amazing and they're worth spoiling, but everyone, there's just too many.

• 19:45Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 19:45Speaker 05

  And I give the gift of Christmas dinner, which I think, you know what, done, I'm out.

• 19:49Jessie Ware?

  Do you do your stuffing separately then?

• 19:53Speaker 05

  We would probably just buy stuffing.

• 19:55Jessie Ware?

  Interesting.

• 19:56Speaker 04

  Very nor Ephron of you.

• 19:57Speaker 05

  A bit of shortcuts, you know, stuffing, the little sausage rolls with the bacon, just pre-buy.

• 20:02Jessie Ware?

  Do you do, like Jamie Oliver, and do like a get ahead gravy?

• 20:06Speaker 05

  I do do a get ahead gravy, yeah.

• 20:08Jessie Ware?

  Is yours very different to Jamie's?

• 20:10Speaker 04

  Thick or thin? I've been watching Instagram this week.

• 20:13Speaker 05

  Thick. My dad would disapprove of a thin gravy, yeah. There's a northern man somewhere in my father. He likes a very thick, rich gravy. And he's so sweet. We're about the same size, you know, quite little. And he'll get his plate and load it up with all his stuff and then he'll put his gravy on and he has to do sort of a, almost like sort of, um. You know, finishing school etiquette to keep it absolutely balanced, perfectly straight. There's so much gravy on, you know, one little wobble, a little tidal wave gravy. But, um, we do it ahead and my mum taught me to, you you brown the flour?

• 20:46Jessie Ware?

  This is your content this week on on Instagram. You brown the flour for like twenty minutes?

• 20:51Speaker 05

  Yes, you have to, you, cause otherwise it will just burn and it will taste of like death. But if you just do it like very gently.

• 20:56Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 20:56Speaker 05

  You know, and you don't have to be over it like a risotto the whole time. You just every now and then give it a quick shake. And it's, it gives you a sort of, sm- smokiness is the wrong word, like a nuttiness. But then it gives you. The colour, so you get that beautiful dark colour. Do you remember Browning?

• 21:10Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 21:11Speaker 05

  Like in the bottle, yeah.

• 21:12Speaker 04

  Jessie's too young.

• 21:13Speaker 05

  Oh damn, damn you. Forty-four.

• 21:16Jessie Ware?

  You're kidding. Three years younger than you.

• 21:19Speaker 05

  How do you not remember Browning?

• 21:20Jessie Ware?

  I don't know.

• 21:21Speaker 04

  Because I didn't use gravy.

• 21:22Speaker 05

  That's it, you've obviously had a great gravy maker.

• 21:24Jessie Ware?

  Well, no, you used to put a few bistos.

• 21:26Speaker 04

  I always put marm- I used to put marmite in, only in lamb gravy.

• 21:30Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 21:31Speaker 04

  But I would use granules or.

• 21:34Speaker 05

  It was very.

• 21:34Speaker 04

  Do you put in your Christmas gravy?

• 21:37Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 21:38Speaker 04

  I like red currant jelly in my gravy.

• 21:40Speaker 05

  Wild.

• 21:41Speaker 04

  And some wine.

• 21:42Speaker 05

  Wild, it's a bit, that's a bit sweet, meat free.

• 21:45Speaker 04

  Kind of.

• 21:46Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 21:46Speaker 04

  Oh, you don't like sweet with meat?

• 21:48Speaker 05

  No, weird.

• 21:48Speaker 04

  Do you not have cranberry sauce with your turkey?

• 21:50Speaker 05

  Personally, I don't know.

• 21:52Jessie Ware?

  So would you not have mango chutney with what you've made us today? Okay.

• 21:57Speaker 05

  Tumbleweed.

• 21:57Jessie Ware?

  Do you want to tell everyone what you've made for us today?

• 21:59Speaker 05

  Okay, so I've made two delicious recipes from the cookbook. One is a.

• 22:04Jessie Ware?

  Two?

• 22:04Speaker 05

  Yeah, well, I'll tell you why. So one is a monkfish curry.

• 22:07Jessie Ware?

  Yum.

• 22:07Speaker 05

  It's just so nice. You just make a sauce, heat the sauce in the oven, bang in the fish, done, it's so delicious, bang in the fish.

• 22:13Jessie Ware?

  Wow.

• 22:13Speaker 05

  And then the second recipe, because I felt like you need something delicious to go with it, r- rice.

• 22:18Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 22:18Speaker 05

  But I've made coconut beef rice and it's so young, yeah. It's really, really nice.

• 22:24Jessie Ware?

  So what is it, like beef stock?

• 22:25Speaker 05

  So, no, you fry the mince, but you fry it in the oven with onion, fry the mince in the oven.

• 22:30Speaker 04

  If you were to choose any cuisine.

• 22:32Speaker 05

  Ever.

• 22:33Speaker 04

  Ever.

• 22:34Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 22:34Speaker 04

  So we were coming to your last supper, but if you were to, which one do you love? And you, it shall go to and you couldn't not have it.

• 22:42Speaker 05

  Can I lump a sort of territory? I would say Middle Eastern. I, I just love everything about Middle Eastern food.

• 22:47Jessie Ware?

  You've done lots of cookbooks on the Middle Eastern.

• 22:50Speaker 05

  I think, because I find it, all that area, that region is so different from us. The food is old and it's got lovely stories and lovely flavours.

• 22:59Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 22:59Speaker 05

  And they use really evocative things like rose petals and pomegranate molasses and pomegranate, all these lovely fresh mint and stuff. And when I was sort of learning about food, that's why I never wanted to train to be a chef, because I was like, why would I want to learn how to make like? Some French sauce, when you could be eating that, that is the best for me. And I feel very, very strongly about hummus. I love.

• 23:22Jessie Ware?

  How do you make your hummus?

• 23:23Speaker 05

  I actually was gonna make some and then didn't have the right chickpeas. So I just use really good organic chickpeas from a can or bowl bean.

• 23:30Jessie Ware?

  Bowl bean are the best.

• 23:31Speaker 05

  Whatever you want, and you have to have very, very good tahini.

• 23:35Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 23:35Speaker 05

  Tahini. And there's a brand called Al Nikal, and it's the best.

• 23:39Jessie Ware?

  I've got three tahinis in here.

• 23:41Speaker 05

  In the like brown jar, green lid, but there's actually two of them. There's two different brands. Both of them are really good. And it's, it's.

• 23:49Speaker 06

  No, I've got Bellazoo or I've got.

• 23:50Speaker 05

  That's really good. It's good. The Bellazoo one's lovely.

• 23:54Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 23:55Speaker 05

  But they should be pourable and try and avoid anything in a jar.

• 23:58Speaker 04

  Do you put garlic in your hummus?

• 24:00Speaker 05

  So you want chickpeas, lemon juice, chickpea water. No, it doesn't do anything.

• 24:04Jessie Ware?

  I thought it did. Made it smooth.

• 24:07Speaker 05

  No, because if you think about it, if you've got like a blender that's not strong enough to blend a chickpea, how the hell is it gonna blend an ice cube? It'll just stay in there until it doesn't.

• 24:17Jessie Ware?

  So you're basically just adding water?

• 24:18Speaker 05

  It is complete lie, Matt. It's a, that's a social media ruse.

• 24:21Speaker 04

  I don't know why you ever thought of an ice cube.

• 24:23Speaker 05

  I got obsessed with that and was like, oh my God, this is the future. My hummus is gonna be smoother than anything. Doesn't make any difference. Just get a really good blender. And if, if your blender's not amazing, just drain your chickpeas, boil them. Bowl beans you don't need because they're so soft. Boil them till they're squidgy, but keep that chickpea water from the tin.

• 24:41Speaker 04

  Oh, I never boil a chickpea.

• 24:43Jessie Ware?

  Right, should we put the food on?

• 24:44Speaker 05

  Yeah, let's.

• 24:45Jessie Ware?

  I say we, I'm doing nothing. I'm watching you and your sexy Tupperware.

• 24:49Speaker 05

  Okay, let's get that Tupperware out.

• 24:50Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, you can take your drink over if you want, babe.

• 24:52Speaker 05

  Hmm.

• 24:53Jessie Ware?

  I feel like I'm kind of at the be- I'm at the pre-drinks of Christmas dinner with John.

• 25:03Speaker 06

  So you've got prawns going in there that you've defrosted.

• 25:06Speaker 05

  Flapping these prawns. So these like are really nice, massive, more like, you know, American style prawns. Some monkfish.

• 25:13Speaker 06

  Monkfish, gorgeous.

• 25:15Speaker 05

  I love monkfish. It gets so nice.

• 25:16Speaker 04

  Do you use up a scale, John?

• 25:18Speaker 05

  A scale?

• 25:19Speaker 04

  Up a scale. It's a fish delivery service.

• 25:22Speaker 05

  So this is from a little, so where I live, I live between Chiswick and Acton, right? There's a fish shop in Chiswick, it's called The Avenue.

• 25:32Speaker 04

  Yeah, I know The Avenue.

• 25:33Speaker 05

  Come anytime, we're opposite the Plum Duff Bakery. And there's a little fish shop in Chiswick and you go and you buy one prawn for seven hundred pounds because it's Chiswick. Or you can go to Acton and buy, you know, lovely monkfish for just like normal prices and they, and fun enough, they serve all the restaurants around there.

• 25:50Speaker 04

  Oh, interesting.

• 25:52Speaker 05

  So you just put that in and then how long will the monkfish need and the prawn? I'd say like three or four minutes. So this is a really easy kind of. Tray bake.

• 26:05Speaker 05

  So this would usually be.

• 26:07Speaker 04

  In the oven.

• 26:07Speaker 05

  So if you were tray baking this, you basically bang it, oh god, I can't quite remember. Okay, so you start with your onion. Yeah. Onion goes in the oven for like ten minutes, get a bit of colour on it. I think it's just onion. Then you add the sauce, which you just whisk in a jug. Pour that in, couple of minutes heat up, add the fish, couple of minutes cook through. So it's slightly layered. Yeah. But if you did it all at once, the, it would just wouldn't work. It'd be a bit gross. So what are you doing now? Going to make like, is it called a tut tut tut? I don't know. Tucker, tucka, tucker. So you know like dal, tucka dal? A tucka dal, yeah. Yeah, so the tucka, tucka is, so you make your dal and then you heat oil, flavour it and you pour that over at the end. That is a tucka. So because it's a tray bake, you can't do the spices and the oil, so you do it at the end.

• 26:52Speaker 04

  Oh wow, what's going on?

• 26:54Speaker 05

  So it's just the curry leaves, they get a bit crackly.

• 26:57Speaker 04

  Are those curry leaves?

• 26:58Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 27:00Speaker 04

  Fantastic.

• 27:02Speaker 05

  Get that in. Do you two like, how spicy do you like food in life? I don't mind spice, mum's a bit of a less.

• 27:09Speaker 04

  Yeah, I'm a bit of a wuss.

• 27:11Speaker 05

  This looks delicious. There you go, bit of that, bit of that. So that's minced meat? Yeah. And rice and any spices. So there's, there's coconut milk, stock, soy sauce, fish sauce and oyster sauce.

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• 28:07Jessie Ware?

  So, John, this looks absolutely exquisite. Take us through each dish on the table.

• 28:13Speaker 05

  This is a South Indian-inspired curry based on a dish called mean moli, which literally just means fish in sauce that you find in Kerala. And it's just a very simple monkfish, prawn curry with chile leaves, mustard seeds, coconut, ginger, garlic, delish. This is a, literally an oven-baked beef coconut rice. You sort of slap the rice, beef and onions with like lots of soy, ginger, garlic, all in the oven with coconut milk and cook it. And there's a trick where you cook it on high for like 20 minutes. So the rice will absorb all the liquid and then oven off and just leave it.

• 28:48Jessie Ware?

  So it's in the cookbook?

• 28:49Speaker 05

  Yeah, and then you get this fluffy yummy rice.

• 28:51Jessie Ware?

  So is it cooked with any water and stock?

• 28:54Speaker 05

  So there's stock in there as well.

• 28:55Jessie Ware?

  Okay, fine.

• 28:56Speaker 05

  And then that's just what I had in the fridge salad.

• 28:58Jessie Ware?

  I love that. I mean, it looks perfect. Thank you.

• 29:02Speaker 05

  Pleasure. Right, curry.

• 29:04Jessie Ware?

  I think this may have to be our New Year's resolution that basically everyone cooks for us. Because this is heaven.

• 29:09Speaker 05

  Makes life way easier for you two.

• 29:11Jessie Ware?

  Has your partner got some of this back at home?

• 29:15Speaker 05

  No.

• 29:16Jessie Ware?

  Okay, no, fair enough. Thank you.

• 29:18Speaker 05

  Absolutely not. He did, he's very funny. He's like a cat. He can smell fish. So he came last night and went, "Ooh, you can fish for me." It's like, "Sorry, love. No, there's no fish for you."

• 29:26Jessie Ware?

  Mum, we're doing it. Shall I do you then?

• 29:29Speaker 05

  Yeah, go on. That sounds weird. You can do me, yeah.

• 29:30Jessie Ware?

  Okay.

• 29:34Jessie Ware?

  Right, we're in.

• 29:35Speaker 05

  Yeah, we're in.

• 29:36Jessie Ware?

  Okay, thank you. I'm going in.

• 29:42Speaker 04

  Mmm.

• 29:43Jessie Ware?

  Oh god.

• 29:45Speaker 05

  So nice.

• 29:46Jessie Ware?

  And I would never think to do like minced beef with monkfish.

• 29:52Speaker 05

  It's a slightly weird combo.

• 29:53Jessie Ware?

  But I, it works. Oh, it's delicious.

• 29:56Speaker 05

  Coconut rice with coconut, so nice. Have you been to like Malaysia and stuff?

• 30:00Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 30:01Speaker 05

  And they, they'll serve that coconut rice with all the coconut curries and in your head you think, oh, is that gonna be too much? But no, it's not. More is more.

• 30:09Speaker 04

  Delicious.

• 30:10Speaker 05

  So nice.

• 30:10Jessie Ware?

  This is amazing.

• 30:11Speaker 04

  Honestly, it's so wonderful.

• 30:13Jessie Ware?

  And you promised me this is actually easy and you could serve this up for a dinner party.

• 30:18Speaker 05

  You could, you could make, I can look you in the eye and tell you, no word of a lie, you two. Monday night, you could make this after work like that, either of them. They're that, it honestly, they're so easy.

• 30:29Speaker 04

  Darling, I think you should have a restaurant.

• 30:31Speaker 05

  Oh, I'd be awful.

• 30:33Speaker 04

  No, you wouldn't.

• 30:33Speaker 05

  I'd spend the whole time like gallivanting round the front, sort of trying to talk to people, like inherently I love people.

• 30:39Jessie Ware?

  You could be like Russell Norman from Bruto, wasn't it Russell Norman?

• 30:43Speaker 05

  Polpo, Polpo.

• 30:44Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 30:44Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 30:45Jessie Ware?

  He was, Russell was like the best front man.

• 30:48Speaker 05

  He was very tall, I remember, wasn't he?

• 30:50Jessie Ware?

  He was fab and like would come over and it was the anniversary of Prince's death or his birthday and he just like cranked up Purple Rain. And like, oh, he was amazing. I feel like you'd give that energy.

• 31:02Speaker 04

  This is so delicious. I can't get over the rice.

• 31:06Speaker 05

  It's so nice rice, isn't it? I think I'd just be too over familiar with people and actually in a restaurant experience, especially if like, imagine if you were like trying to sort of seduce someone on a date and then I just come over like, oh my god, tell me everything about you, bah! It just wouldn't work at all. Also, it's bloody full on running a restaurant. It is really full on.

• 31:25Jessie Ware?

  Do you wanna shout out any local restaurants that you love in your area?

• 31:28Speaker 05

  So my favourite is a little dumpling place called Mr Dumpling.

• 31:33Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 31:33Speaker 05

  Just off Shepherd's Bush Roundabout and it looks like it should be in Chinatown, so they've got sort of. Ducks and people in the window. And it's the best northern Chinese dumplings that I've ever had in the UK.

• 31:45Jessie Ware?

  Really?

• 31:45Speaker 05

  They're so good. You get like pork and chive or prawn, pork and egg. And they are so juicy and delicious and the pastry gives you that lovely bite. And then they do this sort of garlicky dipping sauce. That is, I mean, you, you literally stink the next day, but it's just so worth it. It's so yummy. And they, it's really nice going to eat there, but they deliver. And they've got this handy delivery system where when they send you the dumplings, you get a neat box. And each dumpling comes in its own handy slot. So that it doesn't slosh around on the bike. So good.

• 32:21Jessie Ware?

  Oh, man. That's amazing.

• 32:24Speaker 05

  Come, house next door, up for sale, come.

• 32:27Jessie Ware?

  Okay, so last supper. Starter, main, dessert, drink of choice.

• 32:32Speaker 05

  Okay, so I think starter would be those dumplings because

• 32:37Jessie Ware?

  Okay.

• 32:38Speaker 05

  I've always loved a dumpling. My brother used to live in Hong Kong. And one of the highlights was I used to go over there and I spent, I used to do Thursday night, Friday, get there Friday. Go out Friday night, eat dumplings all day Saturday and then leave on Sunday. It was so fun because he lived there, you just pop over.

• 32:56Jessie Ware?

  You went for a weekend? You pop over to Hong Kong?

• 32:58Speaker 05

  Yeah, we used to literally go all the time for the weekend. But this was like years ago when flights are now are so expensive. Back then they were sort of, you know, two a penny, just grab a flight, off you went. And we, we're quite greedy, so we, you know, my brother's funnily enough, much taller than me. But we, dumplings, I've always loved. So I think that would be my starter with all, I love all the sort of soy and chili and all the bits. And it gets all a bit sloshy and messy and I love all of that. Main, oh, what would my main be?

• 33:24Jessie Ware?

  We're gonna go Middle East here?

• 33:26Speaker 05

  Am I allowed a snack before the main?

• 33:27Jessie Ware?

  Love that.

• 33:28Speaker 05

  So my snack would be if you were, if you happened to find yourself, you may find yourself in Armenia town in Beirut.

• 33:38Speaker 05

  There is a restaurant called McDeuce and it's like a tiny little hole in the wall kebab shop. They have the best chicken shawarma ever and they do like this amazing, it's not the shaved shawarma. It's like a chopped shawarma and they.

• 33:50Jessie Ware?

  A tray baked shawarma.

• 33:52Speaker 05

  Exactly, they wish, Lenny. And they, they basically have crispy, deep fried chips that they toss all together in the meat juices of the shawarma.

• 34:01Jessie Ware?

  Oh my god.

• 34:01Speaker 05

  And then put like garlic sauce, it's called tu- tuam, the sauce. It's so nice. It looks like a cloud in a, in a jar. It's so nice. And then wrap it in this beautiful bread with salad and it, and it's just amazing. And actually, I remember taking my parents there years ago. And my mum was like awfully like.

• 34:18Jessie Ware?

  Was that another weekend just popped up?

• 34:20Speaker 05

  No, we were there for quite a while, actually.

• 34:22Jessie Ware?

  Were you doing work there? Were you living there?

• 34:24Speaker 05

  So I was there for three months to write a book, which is like the greatest job ever, you know. And I'm quite stubborn and I decided when I got there that I was like, I don't need a translator. I don't need to pay because Lebanon's not on any tariff that we have. So I was like, I don't need to pay for my phone. I'm just going to use old fashioned maps and I'm going to, that's me done. So the fucking map I had was from like nineteen fifty and had nothing on it. So I got completely lost. At one point, my actual car got wedged in a road in Tripoli. And I had to get all these people outside a cafe to help me push it because I'd gone down, you know, down like a little wrong lane.

• 35:10Speaker 05

  I, I love, that was one of the funnest things I've ever done. It was totally bonkers, but I was there with my mum, dad, took them to the kebab shop. My mum was awfully sniffy about it, but then once we saw it, she was, you know, eating it. She was like, this is so good. So that would be my little snack. My main would be.

• 35:26Speaker 05

  I think Christmas dinner. I think it would be the full, am I allowed the full shebang with everyone? So that I can get, I can ship them all in. So if I, is this my death row dinner? Am I dying the next day?

• 35:36Jessie Ware?

  Well, no.

• 35:38Speaker 05

  Not dying.

• 35:39Jessie Ware?

  What do you think?

• 35:40Speaker 04

  You're going to a desert island, six months at least.

• 35:42Speaker 05

  Jesus, and no talking.

• 35:43Jessie Ware?

  Maybe sixty years. I don't know.

• 35:45Speaker 05

  Sixty years?

• 35:46Jessie Ware?

  I don't know. Well, like, do you want to die or do you want to go?

• 35:48Speaker 05

  Fucked.

• 35:52Speaker 05

  Cheeks will be hanging to the floor. Okay. Want some more? Let's go with that rather than death. So they're not going to see me for quite a long time. I would want our Christmas dinner. With all your family. All the fam there. And there's a very funny point with our Christmas dinner. Once all the, I think I said, once I lay out all the desserts and the cheese. My mum, you'll hear the chords of dun, when the thunder calls you. From the mountain high. She loves East Seventeen. It's so weird.

• 36:24Jessie Ware?

  I need to go to your parents' house. This is mental.

• 36:27Speaker 05

  Will literally be like, everyone up. And we have to all start dancing. All the grandkids look slightly confused. To East Seventeen, thunder when the thunder calls you. Yeah. And she loves a bit of that. Time to spread your wings and. Wasn't it a Christmas hit?

• 36:42Jessie Ware?

  No, that's stay. She went for like the B side.

• 36:45Speaker 05

  So she loves that song. And then, then it all just descends into like a disco, which is great fun. So that would be my main.

• 36:51Jessie Ware?

  God, this is amazing.

• 36:53Speaker 05

  You've got to come. Jessie, maybe we should have disco this year.

• 36:55Jessie Ware?

  Well, we could fit in nine o'clock because we eat at about three. So we'll maybe see you there for the East Seventeen moment.

• 37:01Speaker 05

  Yeah, love it.

• 37:02Jessie Ware?

  Maybe I'll start getting my daughter to do a traditional song.

• 37:05Speaker 05

  A traditional boy band nineties song.

• 37:09Jessie Ware?

  Get her to learn something on the piano.

• 37:11Speaker 05

  Yes, stain it. No, that's exactly the same song, isn't it? Uh, want you back for good, surely.

• 37:16Jessie Ware?

  Want you back for good. That would be good. That would be really good.

• 37:18Speaker 05

  But then they've got that drawn out, whatever I said.

• 37:22Jessie Ware?

  Maybe you should add that to your.

• 37:24Speaker 05

  The worst pitch ever.

• 37:25Jessie Ware?

  Maybe you should add that to your mum's playlist.

• 37:27Speaker 05

  That is on her playlist. So she's very committed to it. Can she play the piano? No, she just caterwalls and has the best time ever. Loved it.

• 37:33Jessie Ware?

  Oh my gosh, she sounds fantastic.

• 37:35Speaker 05

  This high and so cool. What's her name? Sal, Sally. She's very cool. I love my mum.

• 37:41Jessie Ware?

  So we've got Christmas dinner with your amazing family, with all the trimmings.

• 37:46Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 37:46Jessie Ware?

  How many different stuffings do you have?

• 37:49Speaker 05

  Always have a really basic pork stuffing.

• 37:51Jessie Ware?

  Okay.

• 37:51Speaker 05

  Which is essentially just a giant sausage, isn't it? Yeah, delicious. And you cut it into cubes. And then someone will bring nice balls.

• 38:00Jessie Ware?

  Well, like the Paxo ones.

• 38:02Speaker 05

  Like a sage and onion stuffing.

• 38:04Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 38:04Speaker 05

  I just don't see the point when you could be having extra pork on your plate.

• 38:08Jessie Ware?

  Okay.

• 38:08Speaker 05

  Do you know what I mean?

• 38:10Jessie Ware?

  I like it. We do two really nice ones. They'd be too fussy for you.

• 38:13Speaker 04

  Apricot and walnut or.

• 38:15Speaker 05

  And do you hand make them?

• 38:16Jessie Ware?

  But he wouldn't eat it because it's cooked fruit.

• 38:18Speaker 05

  No, that, that I would try.

• 38:19Speaker 04

  That's one thing that is super easy to make.

• 38:21Speaker 05

  So that I would be all over. I think, because, because we cook for so many people, we'll pick our battles. So you want really good turkey, really good gravy, really good roast potatoes. And then.

• 38:30Speaker 04

  Red cabbage?

• 38:31Speaker 05

  Peas are peas, aren't they? No, we're quite basic with veg. I'll do like a quick tray of roasted things.

• 38:36Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 38:37Speaker 05

  Uh, and then that's, and then it's just all the, all the gubbins, you know, like, do you like bread sauce?

• 38:43Speaker 04

  Love, love it.

• 38:43Speaker 05

  Do you? I find it the weirdest thing ever. It's so strange.

• 38:47Speaker 04

  Her brother will have it on a sandwich.

• 38:50Speaker 05

  Really?

• 38:50Speaker 04

  Bread sauce on a sandwich, which is weird.

• 38:53Jessie Ware?

  Bread on bread.

• 38:54Speaker 05

  I find that's the strangest thing to eat.

• 38:56Speaker 04

  You do this thing when you finish cooking something on Instagram and you go like this and you go, just do it.

• 39:02Speaker 05

  Like an orgasm thing?

• 39:03Speaker 04

  Yeah, you do that face. Just do the face. Go on. You do it every time.

• 39:08Speaker 05

  Get into character.

• 39:09Speaker 04

  You've got to watch him. He goes like this.

• 39:12Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 39:15Jessie Ware?

  Ah, he always does it and I love it.

• 39:20Speaker 05

  I think what I more normally do, if I, like, if I'm not aware of that.

• 39:24Speaker 04

  And you say something like.

• 39:24Speaker 05

  I do a slightly weird jig when I'm really happy or like, or like, or I'll, I'll sort of involuntarily clap.

• 39:32Jessie Ware?

  This is so delicious. Are you a sweet person?

• 39:35Speaker 05

  So I'm obsessed with chocolate and I'm not just saying that to suck up. I love chocolate. Well, it could be anything from like, literally like a dairy milk. Or if I'm feeling really fancy, I love like a bar of green and blacks with salt, the salted chocolate.

• 39:48Jessie Ware?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, we have dessert. It looks beautiful. You said you were going to be a big boy and try, try the pear. But would you add anything to your chocolate desserts? And what would be the dream dessert?

• 40:03Speaker 05

  My favourite, because I wouldn't make them, is a chocolate fondant. I love it. Do you, would you really?

• 40:10Jessie Ware?

  Like a melt in the middle.

• 40:12Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 40:12Jessie Ware?

  Do you never make them?

• 40:13Speaker 05

  I just think it's really fussy. That's what I want to eat in a restaurant. I can't be bothered.

• 40:16Jessie Ware?

  Why don't you find a way to make it not fussy? Just do one some. Could have been in the greatest tray bake. Just do one some. Little sliver please. Yeah, that's perfect.

• 40:26Speaker 05

  No, I'm not. Desserts, I kind of like chocolate brownies, something easy. But if I'm out, a chocolate fondant. I just, I think, I find it so thrilling when you cut into them and they just go.

• 40:37Jessie Ware?

  Do you make that many sweet things? You don't really on your, it's more savoury, your channel.

• 40:41Speaker 05

  Yeah, I love savoury. But sweet is like, yeah, chocolate, chocolate brownies, I pride myself on making a very good brownie.

• 40:47Jessie Ware?

  See, I'm just like, I find the whole fuss around chocolate brownies.

• 40:51Speaker 05

  If I made them for you.

• 40:52Jessie Ware?

  Okay. Can I have the ice cream?

• 40:53Speaker 05

  You would do that face that I just did.

• 40:54Jessie Ware?

  What the?

• 40:56Speaker 05

  The slightly odd face, yeah.

• 40:57Jessie Ware?

  I just, I don't really get the fuss.

• 41:02Speaker 05

  So I think. Unlike a cake, a brownie has to be sort of almost. Beyond moist into a world of like ooze almost. Yeah, gooey. Ooze is too much, isn't it?

• 41:12Jessie Ware?

  Mmm, this is really good.

• 41:14Speaker 05

  Really gooey, I'm gonna just go for it.

• 41:16Jessie Ware?

  Well done. Can you taste cardamom? Cardamom? No.

• 41:18Speaker 05

  Weirdly, I just feel, why have I been so strange about them for so long?

• 41:23Jessie Ware?

  Mum?

• 41:23Speaker 05

  It tastes quite nice. I just went full on, ate the pear.

• 41:26Jessie Ware?

  Well done.

• 41:27Speaker 05

  Mmm, delicious. And it's almost like, um.

• 41:29Jessie Ware?

  Now I'll try it with the chocolate.

• 41:30Speaker 05

  It's almost a bit fragrant, isn't it? A pear.

• 41:34Jessie Ware?

  Yes. It's quite delicate, isn't it?

• 41:36Speaker 05

  Yes, it is.

• 41:39Jessie Ware?

  They're also quite al dente, so it's not mushy.

• 41:42Speaker 05

  I really like that, delicious.

• 41:44Jessie Ware?

  This is lovely. Who's recipe is it?

• 41:45Speaker 05

  I paid for that in the restaurant, yum.

• 41:47Jessie Ware?

  It's Guardian Feast.

• 41:48Speaker 05

  Is it?

• 41:49Jessie Ware?

  Oh, yes, who's it? Helen Go. Helen Go.

• 41:51Speaker 05

  Yeah, she's amazing.

• 41:52Jessie Ware?

  What is on your Christmas list? What do you want?

• 41:55Speaker 05

  From Santa? Um, world peace, obviously. Well, okay, so I think I mentioned earlier, I don't buy presents for people, so therefore I don't think you can expect much back. Do you know what I mean?

• 42:05Jessie Ware?

  And does that happen?

• 42:07Speaker 05

  So I will still get a lovely stocking from Father Christmas and there's always a sort of sateen or some deodorant going.

• 42:14Speaker 05

  And that could be it, but I'm happy with that, you know? And it's funny because I'm not, I love a present, who doesn't? But I just. Yeah, it just doesn't bother me. I think, you know, if, again, it sounds so cheesy, but as long as we're all together and we're all having a nice time and everyone's on good form, that's enough for me.

• 42:30Jessie Ware?

  What would be your gift if you were going to give one culinary, like, equipment, piece of gear, like food gear? Cooking gear, what would you gift somebody?

• 42:41Speaker 05

  And I have all the money in the land.

• 42:42Jessie Ware?

  Okay, let's go for all the money and then let's go for stocking filler.

• 42:45Speaker 05

  Okay, so if I had all the money in the land and I was buying, say, for you two, I'd give you the KitchenAid artisan blender. Because it's, it's like a kitchen grade, like a restaurant kitchen grade blender. So you can do soups, smoothies, everything. But you can put your chickpeas in and that's why you don't need ice. They will come out smoother than smooth, delicious.

• 43:09Jessie Ware?

  We just need the most amount of money in the world to get.

• 43:12Speaker 05

  It's expensive. I think it's about six hundred quid.

• 43:13Jessie Ware?

  Wow.

• 43:14Speaker 05

  It's a really expensive piece of kit. Yeah. But when you sort of see it, it's like, almost like heroic, Lenny.

• 43:20Speaker 04

  But does it need to be on your tabletop, on your work surface, your cock?

• 43:24Jessie Ware?

  Hide it away.

• 43:25Speaker 05

  Put it away, but it's, it's heavy.

• 43:27Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's a problem.

• 43:27Speaker 05

  But it's amazing.

• 43:28Jessie Ware?

  Okay, so that's the big, big.

• 43:31Speaker 04

  Would you have a ninja crema?

• 43:33Jessie Ware?

  What's a crema, ninja crema?

• 43:34Speaker 04

  The ice cream maker that's a thousand pounds.

• 43:36Speaker 05

  I would.

• 43:37Speaker 04

  Even on Black Friday?

• 43:38Speaker 05

  If I was getting it, I would. Because, do you know what I thought when I saw them? Imagine if you made frozen margaritas in them.

• 43:44Jessie Ware?

  Oh.

• 43:45Speaker 05

  That would be a, imagine having like a really fun party, perhaps some of your disco music on, and a frozen margarita stand. That would be so funny. You could like trick the top of your glass out, like that.

• 43:55Jessie Ware?

  Are you a good party kind of poster?

• 43:58Speaker 05

  I love partying.

• 43:59Jessie Ware?

  Do you?

• 43:59Speaker 05

  The only things I've ever liked are music and cooking. That's it.

• 44:03Jessie Ware?

  Oh, fab.

• 44:04Speaker 05

  Yeah, it'd be my, from a very young age, when my parents used to take me out anywhere, you know, like, do you remember that when you were younger? You'd go with mum to like a dinner party and you would just be put in a room and they'd be having like an amazing time. Did you used to do that?

• 44:17Speaker 04

  No.

• 44:18Speaker 05

  My parents would do it.

• 44:18Jessie Ware?

  You had dinner parties all the time though, and we would always want, I'd always want to come down.

• 44:22Speaker 05

  And you'd sit on the stairs when they were at home and stare and every now and then run down. If we were at someone else's house, all I'd ever do is get all the saucepans out and play with saucepans or music. That was it. They're my two favourite things in the whole world.

• 44:32Jessie Ware?

  That sounds annoying, John.

• 44:34Speaker 05

  I think it really was. I think it really was, yeah.

• 44:36Jessie Ware?

  Oh my gosh, John, I wouldn't have invited your parents over again. Fucking child.

• 44:41Speaker 04

  You love music and you love cooking.

• 44:43Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 44:43Speaker 04

  What do you listen to when you're cooking?

• 44:46Speaker 05

  So I've just started listening to a guy called S- Samba.

• 44:49Jessie Ware?

  Are you listening to him because he's cute?

• 44:51Speaker 05

  No, that's not my style at all. Also.

• 44:53Jessie Ware?

  He's very good.

• 44:53Speaker 05

  I could be his dad. No way.

• 44:55Jessie Ware?

  He's very good.

• 44:56Speaker 05

  Amazing. And he's all like wiggly like Mick Jagger. He's wicked.

• 44:59Jessie Ware?

  He's really good. He had Sophie and I expect to come on stage with him the other day.

• 45:02Speaker 05

  Amazing. Where? Why wasn't I there?

• 45:04Jessie Ware?

  Coco, I think he did. Yeah.

• 45:06Speaker 05

  He's really cool.

• 45:07Jessie Ware?

  He's a star.

• 45:08Speaker 04

  What's your ki- kind of music?

• 45:10Speaker 05

  So I love.

• 45:11Speaker 04

  E seventeen, obviously.

• 45:13Speaker 05

  We're like Natch. Um, any kind of like nineties grunge music. I just love it all still. Same, you know. It's because it was so nostalgic. And then I love like old rave music, Lenny.

• 45:24Speaker 04

  Oh, right.

• 45:24Speaker 05

  Nineties rave music was so good. Like people like Carl Cox. Amazing. He's an amazing DJ. He still works now. Or the kind of more like cheesy stuff like.

• 45:34Speaker 04

  So you don't listen to Right Said Fred?

• 45:37Speaker 05

  Did we ever listen to Right Said?

• 45:39Speaker 04

  What's his name? What's his name?

• 45:41Jessie Ware?

  I'm too sexy.

• 45:42Speaker 04

  No, the, the.

• 45:43Jessie Ware?

  Fred again. Very different to Right Said.

• 45:45Speaker 05

  Fred again, I love him. And I, I've still not seen him live and I really want to see him live.

• 45:50Speaker 04

  Why would you want to see him live putting records on?

• 45:54Speaker 05

  Because it's more like the vibe. And I think he doesn't just put records on. I think he does play it like while he's doing it.

• 45:59Speaker 04

  If you have to sing karaoke, do you do karaoke at the, um, Gregory Smith party?

• 46:04Speaker 05

  I think it's more, karaoke would be really up selling it. It's more just people yelling.

• 46:08Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 46:09Speaker 05

  Love.

• 46:10Speaker 04

  So what's the song that everyone wants to sing?

• 46:12Speaker 05

  Champagne Supernova.

• 46:13Jessie Ware?

  Oh, wow. Yeah. Did you go and see Oasis?

• 46:15Speaker 05

  Oh, my God, it was one of the greatest ones.

• 46:16Jessie Ware?

  Wasn't it?

• 46:17Speaker 05

  I literally, I've always loved them. And I, I never had, actually Blur, Oasis, I always liked both. It was so amazingly nostalgic to see them all together. And I was with my brother and my sister and my sister's husband. And I've never seen that many overweight bald men crying.

• 46:34Jessie Ware?

  I know.

• 46:34Speaker 05

  It was so weird, wasn't it?

• 46:36Jessie Ware?

  It was beautiful.

• 46:37Speaker 05

  It was so.

• 46:37Speaker 04

  Did you wear a bucket hat?

• 46:38Speaker 05

  No, never back in the day either.

• 46:40Jessie Ware?

  Did you nearly buy one there? And then I, I nearly did. And then I was like, I'm never gonna wear this again.

• 46:45Speaker 05

  Stay in your lane, G S. No way.

• 46:49Speaker 05

  No, but I, I like was yelling every word to every song and just like doing this weird hopping because I was so happy.

• 46:57Jessie Ware?

  Wasn't, did you watch Richard Ashcroft as well? He was so good.

• 47:01Speaker 05

  He was really good. And they're also, they're from like a bygone era, those guys, aren't they? That's like the swagger and the, like, imagine, can you imagine you going on stage and like telling your audience like, fuck off. You just wouldn't. Whereas they do it and we all kind of go like, yay.

• 47:16Jessie Ware?

  I know, I know.

• 47:17Speaker 05

  Let's buy your merch.

• 47:18Jessie Ware?

  I know.

• 47:18Speaker 05

  It was so good.

• 47:19Jessie Ware?

  Before we let you go, John, can you give us a nostalgic taste that can transport you back somewhere?

• 47:25Speaker 05

  What would it be? It would be a chicken tikka masala takeaway. And it would be, it would be at my aunt's house because we used to get them around there and she had this like gorgeous old dining room. And we'd get a takeaway curry. And do you remember when you used to get takeaway curry, they'd give you like little sad like bag of salad?

• 47:46Jessie Ware?

  Oh, they still do.

• 47:47Speaker 05

  Do they?

• 47:47Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 47:48Speaker 05

  Okay. So you get a bag of salad. No one really wants it. No one touches it. And you get your chicken tikka masala and rice, lots of beer. Love that. That would be, I, I think there's something so nostalgic about chicken tikka masala. I love it.

• 47:59Jessie Ware?

  When was the last time you had a chicken tikka masala?

• 48:02Speaker 05

  So I would more make one now. I'm that kind of guy.

• 48:04Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 48:04Speaker 05

  Um, but yeah, quite often. I quite like a chicken tikka masala or a butter chicken.

• 48:09Speaker 04

  Do you have lots of dinner parties?

• 48:11Speaker 05

  I try to, yeah. I love it. I love entertaining. A thousand percent, a thousand percent. But I don't cook at a dinner party. I'll cook and then it's done. I won't cook when anyone's there because I, I get extreme FOMO. I can't bear the thought of anyone chatting if I'm not right in there.

• 48:26Jessie Ware?

  Oh my God. I like, okay. So can you give me a tip? I'm having like local neighbourhood Christmas drinks and the last mum is pissed off because she's not invited because she's not in the right postcode. Can we have one, yeah, one night away from each other?

• 48:40Speaker 05

  We'll chat after.

• 48:41Jessie Ware?

  So the, when I did it two years ago, all I was doing was getting bloody canapes from Ernest out of the bloody oven.

• 48:49Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 48:50Jessie Ware?

  Nightmare.

• 48:51Speaker 05

  Boring, yeah.

• 48:51Jessie Ware?

  I was sweating.

• 48:52Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 48:53Jessie Ware?

  I was hot.

• 48:54Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 48:54Jessie Ware?

  The whole room was hot.

• 48:55Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 48:55Jessie Ware?

  The oven had been, what would you suggest?

• 48:57Speaker 05

  Did you get hot hair? You know, when it goes a bit wrinkly and sweaty?

• 49:00Jessie Ware?

  And then you try and down a dirty martini and it was just like, it was slightly unpleasant. I'm sure everyone had a nice time.

• 49:06Speaker 04

  Cold things.

• 49:07Jessie Ware?

  But do people want cold? What would you do?

• 49:09Speaker 05

  So how many people, roughly?

• 49:11Jessie Ware?

  Well, I'm hoping not that many because I hope they've all gone back to wherever they're going to.

• 49:14Speaker 05

  Like more than 10?

• 49:15Jessie Ware?

  Yes.

• 49:15Speaker 05

  Okay, more than 20?

• 49:16Jessie Ware?

  Probably about 20.

• 49:18Speaker 05

  I would definitely do everything pre-done. So like, an array of delicious dips, labneh, babganoush, hummus.

• 49:25Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 49:26Speaker 05

  And some thrilling things to dip in.

• 49:27Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 49:28Speaker 05

  And then something warm that you don't need to do anything to. What could that be? Mini sausages.

• 49:34Jessie Ware?

  I love them. Cocktail sausages.

• 49:35Speaker 05

  Everyone loves them, yeah.

• 49:36Jessie Ware?

  I've got a card order already.

• 49:37Speaker 05

  And then just loads of crisps.

• 49:38Jessie Ware?

  I've got 72 ordered.

• 49:40Speaker 05

  Done.

• 49:40Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 49:41Speaker 05

  Slam them in the oven, job done.

• 49:42Jessie Ware?

  Honey and mustard.

• 49:43Speaker 05

  Bit of honey and mustard, and then just do little ramekins of ketchup and mayonnaise. And then that, you don't, what more do you need? Just ply it on with booze.

• 49:50Jessie Ware?

  Would you do a big cheese board?

• 49:53Speaker 05

  I love a cheese board. I think that's so nice. And if you're really fancy, you could put like olives and cured meats on.

• 49:58Jessie Ware?

  Dates.

• 49:58Speaker 04

  Yeah, like a grazing table.

• 50:00Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 50:01Jessie Ware?

  Grazing table, very housewives.

• 50:02Speaker 04

  I think they look fabulous.

• 50:03Jessie Ware?

  Now, how do you feel on paper plates?

• 50:06Speaker 05

  I think it's fine.

• 50:07Jessie Ware?

  Me too.

• 50:07Speaker 05

  Because then you don't need to do any washing up, bin it all, and then the next morning you wake up and you're like, oh my God, my house is fine, rather than my house is trashed and I'm never doing it again.

• 50:15Jessie Ware?

  You've been a great help.

• 50:16Speaker 05

  Thanks.

• 50:16Jessie Ware?

  Um, thank you for coming over.

• 50:18Speaker 05

  Thank you for having me.

• 50:19Jessie Ware?

  I think maybe we need to do this again where you just come and cook for us and we talk about, you know, how you're getting on with stewed fruit.

• 50:26Speaker 05

  My pear journey.

• 50:27Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, your pear journey. Um, when is the cookbook out?

• 50:31Speaker 05

  So the cookbook is out on the 29th of January, available in all good bookstores.

• 50:35Jessie Ware?

  And we can vouch that it's delicious.

• 50:38Speaker 04

  That sauce, that cover.

• 50:40Jessie Ware?

  Oh.

• 50:40Speaker 05

  Winner.

• 50:57Jessie Ware?

  John Groco Smith, what a guest. Gorgeous man. Loved him, cackled with him. He was kind of filthy and fab and brilliant and generous and had the best stories. And the food was delicious. Delicious, great fun. I mean, I'm rather stressed. Got a lot going on at the moment, so it's helped so much that he cooked today. And he was so fab. And gorgeous. And just lifted spirits. Just such good fun. Yeah, I loved him. But his family parties are great. Oh, God. Do you think we can get an invite? The idea of his mum, Sal, going on to the piano, not being able to play and then going, "When the thunder calls you", it's just bonkers and fantastic.

• 51:40Jessie Ware?

  And maybe I'm going to have to adopt that Christmas tradition. That was a brilliant episode. I loved having him on. Your tort was delish. You changed his life eating pears. Now maybe he'll enter into eating a cooked apple. So the guy never will eat a tart to tart. He's missing out. It's very narrow minded for a chef. Very narrow minded, yeah. Thank you, John, for coming on the podcast, for being such a fabulous host. I guess he kind of did host me and my own. Yeah, he was good fun. Also, shout out to Joe, who sorted my larder out today and is just the best. Joe can do, Joe bloody can do it all. And we'll see you next week for another episode of Table Manners.

• 52:34Speaker 00

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• 52:47Speaker 01

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