Gadgets We're Loving Right Now!

While Marques is away representing Team USA in China, Andrew and David hold down the fort and discuss all the tech news of the week! Topics range from a Microsoft x Croc collab to new Instagram rules around who is allowed to go live on. They close it out with show-and-tell, discussing new gadgets that they've really been enjoying lately. It's a fun one! Links: Verge - Microsoft XP x Crocs OpenAI - GPT-OSS Google - Pixel 10 AI Ad TechCrunch - Instagram requires 1000 followers to go live A New Social Gadgets we're loving: ⁠Peak Design Pro Tripod (Kickstarter)⁠ ⁠seenda Mouse⁠ MOVAS Tripod Stand (Not Boring) Camera app Music provided by Epidemic Sound Shop the merch: https://shop.mkbhd.com Social: Waveform Threads: https://www.threads.net/@waveformpodcast Waveform Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/waveformpodcast/?hl=en Hosts: Marques: https://www.threads.net/@mkbhd Andrew: https://www.threads.net/@andrew_manganelli David: https://www.threads.net/@davidimel Adam: https://www.threads.net/@parmesanpapi17 Ellis: https://twitter.com/EllisRovin TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@waveformpodcast Join the Discord: https://discord.gg/mkbhd Music by 20syl: https://bit.ly/2S53xlC Waveform is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Andrew Manganelli?

  This episode is brought to you by On Investing, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Each week, host Lizanne Saunders, Schwab's Chief Investment Strategist, and Colin Martin, Head of Fixed Income Research and Strategy for the Schwab Center for Financial Research, bring your fresh insights on what's happening in the markets and why, and what the implications might be for your portfolio. Join Colin and Lizanne as they explore questions like, how do you evaluate corporate bonds that look interesting? And what sectors are on the move right now? Download the latest episodes and subscribe at schwab.com/oninvesting or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 0:33Speaker 01

  Support for the show comes from Jira by Atlassian. AI is only as useful as the context it has to work from. But when that context is scattered across tools, threads, and DMs, that means your team and your AI agents end up flying blind. That's the problem that Jira solves. What's the goal tied to your project? What got decided last week in Slack? Atlassian's teamwork graph pulls all these pieces together, from Jira, Confluence, Slack, GitHub, and more. So, nothing falls through the cracks. With Jira, you can actually share that context with the AI agents you already use, like Claude, Cursor, and GitHub Copilot, assign them work directly, or connect your agents through MCP. Spend less time digging through endless links and DMs, less time chasing down what got decided and by who, and more time actually shipping. Learn more at jira.com.

• 1:18Speaker 01

  That's J-I-R-A dot com.

• 1:20David Imel?

  All of the ads for the iPhone 16 were built for Apple Intelligence. And then, the only Apple Intelligence features they released were like Genmoji and Visual Intelligence. And yeah, not the best use.

• 1:33Andrew Manganelli?

  Everyone's taking their shot at Apple.

• 1:34David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:35Andrew Manganelli?

  Right now.

• 1:36David Imel?

  Yeah, and the Pixel comes out in exactly 14 days, is the announcement.

• 1:40Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, it's announced, yes.

• 1:41David Imel?

  Two weeks.

• 1:41Andrew Manganelli?

  It's already out, technically.

• 1:44David Imel?

  Yeah, that's true. I mean, Google themselves is showing it.

• 1:51David Imel?

  What is up, people of the internet? Welcome back to another episode of the Waveform Podcast. We're your hosts, and I'm David.

• 1:57Andrew Manganelli?

  And I'm Andrew.

• 1:59David Imel?

  Sorry, I couldn't not.

• 2:01Andrew Manganelli?

  Caught me off guard.

• 2:02David Imel?

  Um, in today's episode, Marquez is gone. We warned you before. We did warn you last week. He's gonna be gone for two weeks. Please don't leave. You, we still, you know.

• 2:11Andrew Manganelli?

  Press the subscribe button to bring him back.

• 2:13David Imel?

  That's true. If you, yeah, if you press subscribe, he comes back. Uh, today's episode, we got a lot of different stuff for you. We've gotten a new open weight model from OpenAI. What a concept. Uh, some exciting Fediverse news, which you know I'm excited about.

• 2:27Andrew Manganelli?

  Is that an oxymoron?

• 2:29David Imel?

  What? Exciting Fediverse news?

• 2:30Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 2:31David Imel?

  Because it's already exciting.

• 2:32Andrew Manganelli?

  Exactly.

• 2:33David Imel?

  Exactly. Uh, yeah, some Fediverse news, some Nintendo Switch, but not Nintendo Switch 2 updates. Sad, sad face. And we're also going to be ending it with showing off some cool little gadgets that we've gotten our hands on recently.

• 2:47Andrew Manganelli?

  We do.

• 2:48David Imel?

  That's quite fun. Uh, but first.

• 2:50Andrew Manganelli?

  But first, Andrew's mega awesome, best news of the week, ever possible, possibly the year gadget of the year, some may say.

• 3:01Andrew Manganelli?

  Windows or Microsoft is releasing Windows XP Crocs.

• 3:05David Imel?

  You could have stopped at Windows.

• 3:06Andrew Manganelli?

  Why? That's how awesome it is?

• 3:08David Imel?

  That's how awesome it is.

• 3:09Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay.

• 3:09David Imel?

  Well, XP specifically.

• 3:10Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, this is XP, baby. This is the good, good, the nostalgia. Um, but so to celebrate Microsoft's 50th anniversary, they're about to release Windows XP Crocs. The reason we know they're about to release it is apparently they've already opened up pre-sale for Microsoft employees.

• 3:26David Imel?

  Oh.

• 3:27Andrew Manganelli?

  They will cost 80 bucks, but come with a pack of six gibbits. Do you want to know what the gibbits are?

• 3:34David Imel?

  Can you explain this to people that don't know what Crocs are? And gibbits.

• 3:38Andrew Manganelli?

  Listen.

• 3:38David Imel?

  How much are Crocs normally? Let's start there.

• 3:40Andrew Manganelli?

  50?

• 3:41David Imel?

  Are they really that much?

• 3:42Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 3:43David Imel?

  They're quite cheaper than regular shoes to make. They're like little.

• 3:47Andrew Manganelli?

  I think I'm about right there.

• 3:49David Imel?

  And how much is a gibbit?

• 3:50Andrew Manganelli?

  That I don't know. I only have one gibbit.

• 3:53David Imel?

  I remember when this used to be a good country and we used to like meme on people that wore Crocs. And we would laugh at people and be like, wow, those are so ugly.

• 4:01Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh wait, yeah, 30 to 50 bucks.

• 4:04David Imel?

  Okay.

• 4:04Andrew Manganelli?

  For plain colors, then they can get a little more expensive, like 60 bucks for some like patterns and stuff.

• 4:09David Imel?

  So this is like a special collaboration?

• 4:11Andrew Manganelli?

  Special edition kind of one.

• 4:13David Imel?

  And then what are, what are gibbets?

• 4:14Andrew Manganelli?

  Gibbets are like the little charms that you put in the holes of the Crocs.

• 4:17David Imel?

  Okay.

• 4:18Andrew Manganelli?

  I only have like a Discoff one right now. Hold on. Keep laughing. Wait till you hear the Microsoft gibbets.

• 4:25David Imel?

  Okay.

• 4:25Andrew Manganelli?

  Or should I explain the shoe pattern first?

• 4:27David Imel?

  Well, you know, the shoe pattern, right?

• 4:29Andrew Manganelli?

  Well.

• 4:29David Imel?

  Oh, there's a pattern on the shoe?

• 4:30Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, the pattern for the shoe is the bottom sole is green and the top of the shoe is a light blue with clouds. So it represents the green hill with the cloudy sky from the Windows XP wallpaper.

• 4:42David Imel?

  I know.

• 4:43Andrew Manganelli?

  Yo. It's so good.

• 4:44David Imel?

  You're kind of, you're kind of changing a mirror.

• 4:45Andrew Manganelli?

  It's so sick. And the gibbets are a recycling bin, a mouse cursor, Clippy.

• 4:53David Imel?

  Oh, I knew it.

• 4:55Andrew Manganelli?

  The old Internet Explorer icon, a folder icon and the MSN butterfly logo.

• 5:00David Imel?

  Oh, my God.

• 5:02Andrew Manganelli?

  It's really cool.

• 5:03David Imel?

  What if I just want the gibbets?

• 5:06Andrew Manganelli?

  Then you're gonna have to pay 80 bucks and sell someone a pair of Crocs.

• 5:09David Imel?

  I don't love using the Gen Z logo, but I think they cooked with this one.

• 5:12Andrew Manganelli?

  They, they cooked. It also kind of looks like it comes with a drawstring bag that is also the wallpaper, like hill wallpaper.

• 5:20David Imel?

  I mean, if it comes with a bag, it's not a horrible deal, although that bag costs five cents to make.

• 5:25Andrew Manganelli?

  It's maybe less.

• 5:27Speaker 03

  Wait, so are these exclusively going to be for Microsoft employees or will they eventually open up for the public?

• 5:32Andrew Manganelli?

  The Verge article I read it off of seems like it is going to be available worldwide, just Microsoft's employees get first dibs at it. So if you're a Microsoft employee who doesn't want these and wants the hooker brother out.

• 5:44David Imel?

  I would, I would give you the money.

• 5:46Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm spending $80 on these if given the chance. I can 100%.

• 5:50David Imel?

  If we took a team photo in this, that would be pretty cool.

• 5:52Andrew Manganelli?

  It would be pretty awesome. I think we can all agree with the ugly sweaters. Microsoft is a better merch company than pretty much anything else.

• 6:03David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 6:03Andrew Manganelli?

  Their merch is sick.

• 6:05Speaker 03

  Their ugly sweaters in particular are always fire. Yeah.

• 6:08Andrew Manganelli?

  We always talk about Apple Store like exclusive shirts and merch and stuff, but I think Microsoft's got them.

• 6:13David Imel?

  For a $4 trillion mega corp, they're really, you know.

• 6:16Speaker 03

  Their merch game is on lock.

• 6:17David Imel?

  Who mostly does B to B sales. I gotta say.

• 6:20Andrew Manganelli?

  They got a couple of fire shirts out there.

• 6:23David Imel?

  Their merch designers are cooking.

• 6:25Andrew Manganelli?

  They are.

• 6:26David Imel?

  All right. Well, hopefully we get our hands on these soon. We can move on to the next story. There is a new YouTube feature that is not yet launched, but we have seen some examples of it, and that is YouTube collabs. So you might know that on Instagram or TikTok, when you make a post, you can effectively make the post with another person. It's like a collab post. So it will show up on both people's pages, and it will show both people's little icons right next to each other. So this is a post by this person and this person. YouTube is now apparently experimenting with bringing this feature to YouTube, which makes a lot of sense because there's a lot of history in YouTube of people doing collabs. But it's very much like, oh, we're putting on my channel,

• 7:09David Imel?

  and then maybe there's a different type of video that's on your channel where we collab.

• 7:13Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, and they also tried to do it a little bit with like tagging, sorry, tagging in the title, which I don't think worked very well. It just made titles look really weird because you had to put the at sign in it, and that always looked terrible.

• 7:24David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 7:26Andrew Manganelli?

  But I think this is a better, because it lives on both channels, and is the easy connection between them when you see it without messing up the title.

• 7:33David Imel?

  Right. Yeah, I think this makes a lot of sense. It'll just show up on both channels. I don't yet know how the monetization structure is going to work for something like this. I did reach out to Renee Ritchie, who is the YouTube liaison. He says they are not officially announcing anything about the feature until the fall.

• 7:48Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay.

• 7:49David Imel?

  So it's possible that they're just beta testing it. The only people that have access to it are like very, very big YouTubers.

• 7:54Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 7:55David Imel?

  Mr. Beast has done like two of them.

• 7:57Andrew Manganelli?

  Has he done two?

• 7:57David Imel?

  I believe so.

• 7:58Andrew Manganelli?

  I think you're right, because the one I'm looking at right now says Mr. Beast and three more. And then you click it and you see Mark Rober, Stokes Twins, Ben, as well are. The first one we saw, it said like the channel, or when you click the video, the channel just looked like it said, Mr. Beast and Mark Rober.

• 8:15David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 8:15Andrew Manganelli?

  Which then just to me felt, like Harper said this also. I take a glance at that, I'm like, is this a scam channel that's like trying to trick you into being Mr. Beast and Mark Rober?

• 8:24David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 8:25Andrew Manganelli?

  That looked a little weird, but I think people will get used to it. And as long as they provide verification checkmarks in it.

• 8:31David Imel?

  Well, they also have, they also have, instead of just the image of your channel being in the corner, it's the two images.

• 8:36Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 8:37David Imel?

  So I mean, you, I guess you could make like a fake version of that, but YouTube theoretically has, you know? If it's from a, and then if it's from a big creator, they have the verification badges, obviously.

• 8:49David Imel?

  Yeah, I think this makes a ton of sense, though. I think that people are gonna wanna see this content regardless of what channel it's on. And it also makes it easier to, you know, if, if there's a very large creator that's collabing with a smaller creator, now it's less, like, a lot of the times, people used to do that because they would try to grow with that. They would be like, oh, if I can get Marquez on my channel and do a collab with him, then maybe I can kind of ride his.

• 9:14Andrew Manganelli?

  Maybe this podcast will pop off.

• 9:16David Imel?

  Yeah. If anyone, hey, Joe Rogan, just kidding. If anyone massive wants to collab with at Waveform Podcast.

• 9:25Andrew Manganelli?

  Here's something.

• 9:25David Imel?

  That could be pretty cool.

• 9:26Andrew Manganelli?

  Interesting, looking at it right now. The, on Mr. Beast's channel, it says Mr. Beast and three more. That includes four total people. Mark Rober's channel just says Mark Rober and Mr. Beast. It's also a different title and thumbnail.

• 9:41David Imel?

  And those are not different videos?

• 9:43Andrew Manganelli?

  And they're, I believe they're the same video. It's very hard to tell because are they both 10 minutes and 53 seconds?

• 9:51David Imel?

  Well, I wonder if.

• 9:52Andrew Manganelli?

  No.

• 9:52David Imel?

  They're different videos. I think it might be different videos. I think they're different videos.

• 9:56Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, so it's not like, then I'm wrong. Before I said, lived on both channels. This is not like Instagram where, on Instagram, when you collab with someone, the same post is on both people's feeds.

• 10:07David Imel?

  Well, it might be if those are different videos. I mean, if you go to Mark Rober's.

• 10:10Andrew Manganelli?

  It would be the same video. So like on Instagram, if I make a post that's like a picture of us in waveform and I collaborate with you.

• 10:17David Imel?

  Right.

• 10:18Andrew Manganelli?

  That same exact picture is just on both of our feeds now with both of us linked. This is their collaborating, but the videos are completely different. Where like if it's the Instagram way, the Mr. Beast video would be on Mark Rober's page. This is what I'm saying.

• 10:31David Imel?

  I see. Yeah, I'm not seeing the Mr. Beast video on Mark Rober's page.

• 10:35Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, so that, I guess. It is collabed. Explains how the analytics will work then. Yeah, that explains that part then. You're not doing the same video, so you don't have to worry about different monetization. It's just. This feels like the new way of tagging someone in a title to make it more first party.

• 10:52David Imel?

  Got it.

• 10:53Andrew Manganelli?

  Can I complain about something else that should be more first party from YouTube?

• 10:58David Imel?

  Yes, but let me finish this real quick. Okay, so if you go to like the Mark Rober video that he made called Can You Safely Drink Your Own Pee? Okay, it says Mark Rober and Mr. Beast, but then there's a huge section right above it. That shows Mark Rober and describes what he's doing and then shows Mr. Beast as an organizer.

• 11:18Andrew Manganelli?

  Which would make sense why Mr. Beast is collabed with more people and I'm assuming this is gonna grow.

• 11:23David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 11:23Andrew Manganelli?

  But Mark Rober's only collabed with Mr. Beast because it's... Is this pyramid scheming of YouTube videos?

• 11:30David Imel?

  I think this is, overall, I think this is a very smart move by YouTube. They've added a lot of features that have been popular on other platforms. We won't talk about stories, but yeah, what were you gonna say that you think that they should add?

• 11:44Andrew Manganelli?

  This is something that Adam and I have wanted to complain about for a long time. But why is still the best way on YouTube of putting chapters in content? By just putting a part in the description where you write the word "chapter" and then write the timestamps out?

• 12:00David Imel?

  Yes.

• 12:01Andrew Manganelli?

  In the description?

• 12:02David Imel?

  Yes.

• 12:02Andrew Manganelli?

  First of all, it breaks for us literally every week.

• 12:05David Imel?

  Every week. We hear you. We hear your comments yelling at us. We do it. I swear, it's at time of publish, the chapters work and I've taken to screenshotting it and posting it in Slack. Like as of 10:58, chapters are working. And then they break.

• 12:19Andrew Manganelli?

  And then at like 2 o'clock, I'll walk over to Adam and be like, I just saw five comments and said, there's no chapters.

• 12:24David Imel?

  And I'm like, what the hell? We do it. So yeah, please YouTube, fix this.

• 12:27Andrew Manganelli?

  I keep like commenting if they're broken because we are on it and trying to fix it. It's very annoying. It usually just winds up, Adam deletes the colon after chapters and then puts it back in and saves it and it works again. But like, how is there not a first party system of entering in chapters? There's first party systems for entering all the mid-rolls at a literal exact time slots.

• 12:48David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 12:48Andrew Manganelli?

  50,000 times in a video if you want to.

• 12:50David Imel?

  What makes them money, Andrew?

• 12:52Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, but why can't I just do, then descriptions are way cleaner, like when I want to actually add.

• 12:56David Imel?

  They kind of hide descriptions more than they used to too.

• 12:59Andrew Manganelli?

  They, yeah, they do. It's harder and it's, yeah, I don't care about them. I don't know.

• 13:03David Imel?

  It's very annoying.

• 13:04Andrew Manganelli?

  It's so frustrating.

• 13:05David Imel?

  Thank you for reminding me about that because I said last week I wanted to rant about it and completely forgot. Yeah. That's so annoying. To all y'all that think we don't know what we're doing.

• 13:13Andrew Manganelli?

  We don't.

• 13:14David Imel?

  We don't, but we do do that right, I will say. I will say. Yeah, so I don't know. We'll see in the fall, I guess, when that officially rolls out. I think it's pretty smart for them to test it with like a bunch of big YouTubers because it kind of is doing a stress test on the system. It's pulling in like a ton of views from a ton of different areas and seeing how people react.

• 13:33Andrew Manganelli?

  In terms of analytics, I would like to see if it now source gets that's a collaboration is added as a source of traffic.

• 13:41David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 13:41Andrew Manganelli?

  So like when you come into a video, do it. Did Mark Rober get those views from clicking on Mark Rober's link?

• 13:47David Imel?

  Right.

• 13:47Andrew Manganelli?

  In the Mr. Beast video. It also kind of sucks for everyone collabing, assuming that is going to be a 50-page-long thing of like, this is Mr. Beast's whole team water. One of his big charity things where he's gonna obviously invite a ton of people. So if that 30 to 50, like, number 49 is getting no extra views off of.

• 14:07David Imel?

  Or like one of his like 100 YouTubers compete for this kind of thing and then he collab.

• 14:12Andrew Manganelli?

  Tag.

• 14:12David Imel?

  For a single one of them.

• 14:14Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, is that a collab at that point?

• 14:16David Imel?

  Yeah, I guess you get to decide whether or not you want to make it a collab. It would be crazy if there was like 100 people, though, and they might have a max, too.

• 14:23Andrew Manganelli?

  Mr. Beast is gonna launch this and then figure out it hurts his analytics and then never use it again and be the only person with the ability to do it on YouTube.

• 14:31David Imel?

  YouTube will eventually make it not hurt your analytics, just like they did with Shorts. Yeah. It is a fickle. It's a fickle beast. Um, okay.

• 14:39Andrew Manganelli?

  Really interested to see where this goes.

• 14:41David Imel?

  Yeah. We got one more story before we're gonna take our first break. Uh, OpenAI has released their first open weight models since GPT-2.

• 14:50Andrew Manganelli?

  Before you go on.

• 14:50David Imel?

  Yes.

• 14:52Andrew Manganelli?

  Do a lot of explaining in here for those of, for the people out there who don't understand.

• 14:56David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 14:57Andrew Manganelli?

  What this means.

• 14:57David Imel?

  All right, so a model, like a large language model is a lot of data that has been trained to create effectively like a neural network. So when you give it an input, it gives you an output and that output is generated by a bunch of different neurons, neurons, quote unquote, kind of like firing at each other and deciding what the most probable output is going to be. Uh, it is probabilistic. It changes every time. It's kind of like they're trying to make a brain, obviously. Now, usually when you use a model from, if you use ChatGPT or you use Gemini, these are all closed models. And that means that's effectively a black box. You, you, number one, don't know what data it was trained on to make that model.

• 15:42David Imel?

  And number two, you can't see the model weights. A model weight is effectively, uh, the people that are building the model can put more influence into certain aspects of the model to try to like, guide it towards certain behavior.

• 15:58David Imel?

  And kind of a lot of the race in AI is to like, perfect these model weights to get better outcomes. And so the reason that a lot of these models have become more closed is because these companies don't want to disclose to each other what they're, like, how they're changing their model weights. So OpenAI has released a new open weight model. It's not the same as open source. Because if it was open source, you could see the training data and, uh, OpenAI would be sued 100 million times. That's definitely the reason that they're not making it open source. Right? Um, because they're already being sued by everybody and now they would just give up all their proof.

• 16:32Speaker 03

  It was readily available on the internet.

• 16:34Andrew Manganelli?

  But David, I can just watch YouTube for free.

• 16:37David Imel?

  I'm training my brain right now. Uh, anyway, it is, it is a pretty big deal because now you can run these models locally. Uh, which is pretty crazy. If you remember correctly, we did a DeepSeek episode and DeepSeek is this Chinese open, so I think it's, I think it is open sourced. Uh, open sourced model that you can run locally on your computer and it was very competitive with the top models at the time. And it was free to download and all these things. And it freaked everybody out. And a lot of people in the AI community decided, we probably actually need to release open models because if we don't, everyone's just going to be using these free models from like, different vendors, like Chinese vendors, right? To them, it is better to get people to like, the entire reason that Meta has Llama,

• 17:22David Imel?

  which is their, their model, and that is like, that is an open model. The entire reason that Mark Zuckerberg is like, open source, open models is the way forward, and we want to give to the community, is not because he wants to give away things for free. It's because he wants to be the foundation that everyone do, like, uses to do things on top of, and then they can figure out how to monetize that later.

• 17:44Andrew Manganelli?

  And they're literally the least trustworthy company on the planet, pretty much.

• 17:47David Imel?

  Right, exactly. So now, it seems that OpenAI sort of wants to get in that game. There's also been a lot of discussion of like, well, if the US in general, those, the companies in the US don't start releasing open models, everyone's gonna start using like, Chinese, like, open models instead.

• 18:03Speaker 03

  Open weight, not open source.

• 18:04David Imel?

  Open weight, yeah, open weight models, open weight models instead. But, these models are available to use via the Apache 2.0 license, which means they can be modified pretty significantly for commercial purposes.

• 18:17Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay.

• 18:17David Imel?

  Which is cool, because it means that people can start making products that run locally on these local models, and sell them, and change the weights, right? So, it's kind of like a foundation that you can then work from, and like, build your own products from.

• 18:32Andrew Manganelli?

  So if I wanted to make like, a new browser in alpha and charge $20 a month for it, I could do it with that?

• 18:38David Imel?

  You could do it, you could. They're still a little bit heavy, right? So like, they released two new models. One of them is a 20 billion parameter model that is similar to the OpenAI 0.3 mini model. And you can actually run that on 16GB of VRAM, which most people, well, many people have on their computers, which it can run on a laptop effectively. And then there's a much bigger 120 billion parameter model that is closer to 0.4 mini. That needs a dedicated, separate Nvidia GPU.

• 19:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, that one you cannot run on a laptop.

• 19:08David Imel?

  Correct. But, even so, just owning like, a 4080 or something, and being able to run 0.4 mini, which is like, a very substantial model, locally on your computer, is pretty cool.

• 19:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 19:20David Imel?

  Right? So yeah, it's, it's a big deal. I'm wondering what we're gonna see happen from this. I think Google is probably going to have to get pressured into opening their own, like, creating their own model. Microsoft is now hosting these models too, on a bunch of their Azure servers and stuff like that, so. Yeah, it's it's a big deal, especially because, you know, it's OpenAI and their whole thing from the beginning was that all of this is gonna be out in the open. And then they realized they could make money out of it.

• 19:50Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 19:51David Imel?

  Yeah, which is why Sam Altman has was trying to make them not like not a open foundation anymore or whatever. They were they were trying to monetize it more than they are.

• 20:00Andrew Manganelli?

  They backtracked on that, right?

• 20:02David Imel?

  They had to. Effectively, they're a company that can only make a certain amount of money and then they have to not.

• 20:10Andrew Manganelli?

  Nonprofit is.

• 20:11David Imel?

  Yeah, they're they're a.

• 20:13Andrew Manganelli?

  They were originally founded as a nonprofit organization in 2015.

• 20:16David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 20:17Andrew Manganelli?

  10 years later.

• 20:18David Imel?

  10 years later, yeah.

• 20:20Andrew Manganelli?

  Who knows what they are?

• 20:21David Imel?

  Yeah, it's a pretty big deal. I think we're gonna start to see a lot of different applications that can run different things locally. You know, there's all of these companies that are relying on OpenAI making API calls to OpenAI, spending a lot of money to do so. Right now, they're burning through a lot of venture capital, but imagine you could package something and release it as an APK or, you know, on a phone or as a program on your computer and you could just run it locally on your computer. Obviously, these are still very heavy. You know, they're still, but they're realizing right now that scaling laws maybe aren't the answer necessarily where scaling laws are where you add more data and the model gets better.

• 21:02David Imel?

  They're realizing that there are definitely ways to make models more efficient without scaling them up higher, which is what DeepSeek did. When when that happens. So eventually, I think that we are going to get to mo- we are going to get models that are small enough that they can like run on your computer. You don't have to download like a giant program and it's not gonna take up all of your RAM like Chrome does.

• 21:23Andrew Manganelli?

  All tech forever has always been, right?

• 21:26David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 21:26Andrew Manganelli?

  Here's really, really cool thing that takes so much power. The size of a room. How do we simultaneously make that better and continue to take that much power but also make versions that are smaller and more accessible?

• 21:37David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 21:37Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 21:38David Imel?

  So it's it's an interesting space for OpenAI to be in because they still want people to pay them for the API calls, obviously. But if everyone starts using the free version of something, nobody's gonna pay them anyway, so they have to get in the game in some way. But yeah, it would be cool if things could run locally on your device and not burn all the water on the planet.

• 22:00Speaker 03

  I mean.

• 22:01Andrew Manganelli?

  It's still, still screwing some stuff up.

• 22:04David Imel?

  Yeah, it's still using, it's still using power, but at least it's using it locally on your device instead of in a data center.

• 22:08Speaker 03

  It is cool that just there's now like multiple options. Like if you want, you could do the API call to OpenAI and build whatever you're gonna build. But now if you need something a little more robust, you can just get one of these things.

• 22:17David Imel?

  Yeah. And this new model can do reasoning, write code and operate agents using the company's API. So people also have been speculating like, Apple's probably looking at this and going like, hmm, we can finally do something because it's commercially available. It's still, again, uses a ton of RAM. So maybe not yet, but maybe in a year or two, when these models are much smaller, they could just use that for Apple.

• 22:41Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, Apple Intelligence, we have to just like really briefly mention the really funny Pixel video. Like this is too good of a spot to like say it, but like Google released this ad that was basically just like, it's like what Marquez has always said, don't buy a product based on future promises. And then they take a shot. It's like, well, the phone you've been looking at's future promises over a year old at this point, baby. Just buy the phone that doesn't do that.

• 23:04David Imel?

  Yeah. All of the ads for the iPhone 16 were built for Apple Intelligence. And then the only Apple Intelligence features they released for like Gen Moji and visual intelligence and yeah, not, not the best use.

• 23:17Andrew Manganelli?

  Everyone's taking their shot at Apple right now and.

• 23:20David Imel?

  Yeah. And the Pixel comes out in exactly 14 days is the announcement. Two weeks. Yeah, announcements.

• 23:26Speaker 03

  It's already out technically.

• 23:28David Imel?

  Yeah, that's true. I mean, Google themselves is showing it constantly. They show it in this advertisement. So yeah, very funny. Anyway, with that, I think we're gonna hit it to trivia real quickly and then we'll take a break.

• 23:40Speaker 03

  So trivia, Marquez is out, as everyone knows. Ellis is also out because he's sick.

• 23:46David Imel?

  I'm still in the lead. Oh yeah, we didn't mention that. Sorry, Ellis. Feel better.

• 23:50Speaker 03

  Ellis is sick home, but he had a good idea. In these next two weeks that Marquez is gone, we are going to do a head to head trivia exhibition match. Just you, David and you, Andrew.

• 24:04David Imel?

  Oh gosh.

• 24:04Speaker 03

  Mono a mono, one on one.

• 24:06David Imel?

  Not necessarily.

• 24:07Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't think I've ever been winning going into a trivia extravaganza.

• 24:12David Imel?

  I'm always winning going into a trivia extravaganza and then I always lose.

• 24:16Speaker 03

  All right. So here we go.

• 24:17David Imel?

  Okay. Oh.

• 24:19Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, he made new music up so sick.

• 24:25David Imel?

  This time I actually hear Ellis's.

• 24:26Speaker 03

  He still did it. Yeah.

• 24:27David Imel?

  I can hear his voice in that.

• 24:31Speaker 03

  Amazing work from Ellis. Okay. So this is going to be how well you guys know each other.

• 24:37David Imel?

  Oh.

• 24:38Speaker 03

  That is the hot twist here.

• 24:40David Imel?

  I don't like that.

• 24:41Speaker 03

  So in the Screen Time app on both of your phones.

• 24:45David Imel?

  Oh, boy.

• 24:46Speaker 03

  What is the most used app on the other person's phone by time? What is the top used app?

• 24:52David Imel?

  Down 29% from last week.

• 24:54Speaker 03

  Oh, my God.

• 24:55Andrew Manganelli?

  Nice.

• 24:55David Imel?

  Wow.

• 24:56Speaker 03

  So, yeah, so figure that out.

• 24:58David Imel?

  Okay.

• 24:59Speaker 03

  And then we'll be back after the break.

• 25:01David Imel?

  I somehow knew this. Oh, that's day. Sorry. Oh, no. Oh, no. Okay. All right. We'll be right back.

• 25:22Speaker 01

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• 27:27David Imel?

  All right, everybody, welcome back to the Nintendo Switch 2 podcast. Except this time it's not about the Nintendo Switch 2. It is not about the Nintendo Switch 2, though, which kind of makes it about the Nintendo Switch 2. I'm your host. Okay, so, some news. Nintendo has raised the prices on the original Switch and the OLED Switch and the Switch Lite.

• 27:49Andrew Manganelli?

  But not the Switch 2.

• 27:50David Imel?

  But not the Switch 2.

• 27:50Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay, interesting.

• 27:51David Imel?

  So, yeah, this is, this is some interesting news. The OG Switch now costs $340, up from $300. Yeah, it's kind of-

• 28:01Andrew Manganelli?

  That's like a pretty solid bump.

• 28:02David Imel?

  This console is like eight years old, by the way. The Switch Lite is now $230, up from $200. And the OLED is now $400, from $350. The $400 OLED to the Switch 2's $450 price tag does not make the Switch 2 look that expensive anymore.

• 28:18Andrew Manganelli?

  No.

• 28:19David Imel?

  Which is very interesting. Nintendo said that they did this because of market conditions, which means tariffs. It happened a single day after the Trump administration announced a 20% tariff on Vietnam, which is where Nintendo does most of its manufacturing. So, obviously, there's a reason why they would have done this. Now, interestingly, the Switch 2 is also very largely manufactured in Vietnam. However, I think that Nintendo is trying to avoid getting people very angry about them rising the cost of Switch 2, number one. Number two, it has already sold 6 million units.

• 28:52Andrew Manganelli?

  Jeez.

• 28:53David Imel?

  Switch 2 is a very, very, very quickly growing console. They are selling a lot of these things. And I think that they are a little bit worried that if they jack up the price now, especially because it's on a percentage basis, they're gonna lose a lot of potential customers. So.

• 29:07Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm interested, I've already seen, like, I've already been to a Target and seen Switch 2s just sitting there. They're definitely in stock.

• 29:14David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 29:15Andrew Manganelli?

  Like, pretty easy. I'm assuming they're pretty easy to get. I don't remember that happening with the Switch for months.

• 29:20David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 29:20Andrew Manganelli?

  I mean, it took me days to find one.

• 29:22David Imel?

  Right.

• 29:22Andrew Manganelli?

  Bought my original Switch. This, Adam and I were talking about this like last week on trying to figure out why it makes sense. And my guess, and this is from someone who doesn't know anything about retail or that is like, are they gonna bump this up, which just means the cost of a retail store purchasing these to keep them on shelves will go up? Still, like, not exactly the same. Obviously, the retail store is making some sort of a margin there, but... And is this kind of attempting to cover the tariffs of Switch 2 by release, releasing stock that's out there already? That's like, this goes up, they'll probably be paid by stores to sit on a shelf and maybe not even really get bought?

• 30:04Andrew Manganelli?

  And is there some sort of like recoup here from what they're about to lose for the 20%?

• 30:10David Imel?

  Well, yeah, Andrew Webster at The Verge did some analysis on this. Uh, and his opinion effectively was that it is much less risky to raise the price of hardware that is not sold as much. And the reason is because...

• 30:21Andrew Manganelli?

  I mean, yes.

• 30:22David Imel?

  Yeah. People that buy like less of the stuff, yes, it won't, it won't make as much money, but it's not gonna scare people as much as it, as it does to, to raise the price of something that is very popular.

• 30:34Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, and this sucks the most for the people who might be interested in that, but I, if, if the Switch 2 is out and you really want the Switch OLED, yeah, you're probably not, you're upset it costs more, but you're probably still going to buy it because there is a very specific reason you want that piece of hardware.

• 30:51David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 30:51Andrew Manganelli?

  And you're going to spend the money for doing it.

• 30:54David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 30:54Andrew Manganelli?

  It's, it's obviously less risky because the thing that's not...

• 30:58David Imel?

  I feel like this also helps because people are gonna be no longer looking at the Switch 2 as, wow, that's so expensive compared to the other Switch. Like, I could just get a Switch OLED for a hundred dollars cheaper. Like, now the difference is only 50 bucks. It's like, I might as well get the Switch 2. Yeah. If I'm already spending $400.

• 31:15Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm trying to think of like, in this scenario, how many people go into that like ladder? Cause like, if you're at a Walmart, are there still old Switches on, in stock there?

• 31:26David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 31:26Andrew Manganelli?

  And then you see it next to each other, are you looking at the Switch 2 because of a specific game, which isn't even available on the old Switches? So you don't even have to make that jump. You already have to pay the 450 because you wanna play Donkey Kong or Mario Kart World.

• 31:42Speaker 03

  Also, they could just be waiting for the tariffs to change again. They're like, we already have all of our stock for the Switch 2 in the States, hopefully. So we don't have to import a crazy amount.

• 31:53David Imel?

  I think that's probably why they flooded the market.

• 31:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 31:55David Imel?

  You know, like the original Switch.

• 31:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 31:57David Imel?

  It was hard to find them for a very long time with the Switch 2. It's kind of been like every single week, there's a restock. And like you said, now you're at the point you can just walk into a lot of stores and buy them.

• 32:07Speaker 03

  We still saw like huge shipments of phones coming in to beat tariffs. So I think on top of not doing a Switch 1 and beating tariffs, there's probably so many Switch 2s.

• 32:16David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 32:16Speaker 03

  Already in stock. Are they just raising these because they? I'd love to see how many OLEDs and lights they're still selling.

• 32:24David Imel?

  I got, this is what I was just about to say. I'm on eBay right now looking at sold listings of Nintendo Switch 1. You can buy them between $80 and like $120 used.

• 32:34Speaker 03

  Used, yeah.

• 32:35David Imel?

  A Switch OLED used with everything is $160. Like, you should not be paying full retail price for any of these things anymore. So I'm really wondering how much of this cost Nintendo is actually recouping. In a way, it is just making the Switch 2 seem like a better deal.

• 32:54Speaker 03

  That's what I think it is.

• 32:55David Imel?

  So at the same time, it's like, yes, they're doing it because of tariffs, but also they're probably going to sell more Switch 2s if everything else is more expensive.

• 33:03Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 33:03David Imel?

  You know?

• 33:04Speaker 03

  Cause now it's just going to force people up the ladder to just, I might as well get a Switch 2. Or even if they don't, then they're minimizing their loss because they just raised the prices on all the cheaper models.

• 33:13David Imel?

  Right. Yeah, which, you know, in 2025, you look at inflation, it's like, things can't really be that cheap anymore. Obviously, their parts are so old that they probably are making a huge profit if they're selling any of them. But yeah, it is, it is very surprising.

• 33:28Speaker 03

  $80 for a used Switch is kind of good, though.

• 33:30David Imel?

  Yeah, I mean.

• 33:30Speaker 03

  That's not bad.

• 33:31David Imel?

  I mean, it's great. Yeah, it's great.

• 33:33Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 33:33David Imel?

  But I mean, you know, if you have an original Nintendo Switch, um. It's been a long time.

• 33:39Andrew Manganelli?

  There is one very specific one, though, that I do think goes for a lot because it's the easiest to mod. Or something about it. There's like this very specific.

• 33:48David Imel?

  If you didn't update it. It was if you didn't update it to a certain patch. Yeah, it was easy to mod. Uh, also, they have raised the price of the Switch one Joy-Cons by $10, which is something that people might buy new, obviously, because of stick drift, which is, uh, effectively where it does not monitor the direction of your stick correctly after a certain amount of time.

• 34:08Andrew Manganelli?

  A funny story Adam and I experienced the other day. We're playing, uh, rumble mode, right? And Mario Kart World. Knockout, knockout, sorry. I think we've said this already. That mode is so much fun.

• 34:21David Imel?

  It's so fun. Knockout Tour.

• 34:22Andrew Manganelli?

  Knockout Tour, yeah, is like, it's, I don't want to say it's worth buying Worlds for that, but if you love Mario Kart, I think Knockout is super fun.

• 34:29Speaker 03

  It's the one to play with a bunch of friends.

• 34:30David Imel?

  Knockout Tour is basically like you, you go through six stages in a row without stopping.

• 34:35Andrew Manganelli?

  Without stopping and there's checkpoints and yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, it's almost like Fortnite where checkpoints, people get eliminated and you have to be, and it goes from like 26 or 25 down to like four and then you win. But, yeah, World is, but Adam, Alex and I are playing on the screen over here and, um, Alex is just like, oh my God, I got stick drift already. And he's like freaking out the whole thing. This brand new Joy-Con.

• 35:02David Imel?

  But he had tilt controls.

• 35:03Andrew Manganelli?

  He had tilt controls on and didn't realize. The best is he was so into it. I was like, oh no, I, mine's messed up too. I think I have tilt controls on. You probably just have it on. He's like, no, no, no. And he's like focusing and just playing. And then the next time he switches controllers, like what the, I was like, dude, you definitely just have tilt controls on. And yeah.

• 35:19David Imel?

  Yeah, I haven't figured out how to turn tilt controls off.

• 35:22Andrew Manganelli?

  If you press start and I, it used to be like the left button, but now I think it's Y. There'll be settings and you can turn, uh, it's like auto steering, tilt control and auto accelerator.

• 35:35David Imel?

  Baby mode. I was just about to say that too. Yeah, it's the bumpers on bowling. Okay. And they also re- raised the price of the Alarma Alarm Clock by $10.

• 35:43Andrew Manganelli?

  No. See, that's what they should raise the price on though, like, that's, people are still buying that. Oh, wait.

• 35:51Speaker 03

  I kinda want one.

• 35:51Andrew Manganelli?

  Sorry, Switch 1 Joy-Cons went up by $10.

• 35:54David Imel?

  Which people do need to replace.

• 35:56Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, that's true.

• 35:57David Imel?

  Because you have a Switch 1, everyone's Joy-Cons eventually get stick drift.

• 36:00Andrew Manganelli?

  I bet they're, yeah, I bet they're making more money off of the Switch 1.

• 36:03David Imel?

  They're probably making a lot on the Joy-Cons.

• 36:04Speaker 03

  And the Joy-Cons were already so expensive.

• 36:06David Imel?

  Yeah, and you need to buy those new effectively, so yeah.

• 36:09Speaker 03

  Even if you didn't go and get the Switch 2, you're like, ah, my Switch is fine, I'm still just gonna play these games randomly. Like, you will need Joy-Cons eventually.

• 36:15David Imel?

  You will need new Joy-Cons, so, yeah, again, uh, $450 is not seeming like that big of a deal now that the OLED is, uh, $400. You know, $50 more dollars for the brand new one is, yeah. The OLED screen still looks a little bit better in my opinion, but...

• 36:31Speaker 03

  A lot better.

• 36:31David Imel?

  A lot better.

• 36:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:33Andrew Manganelli?

  I would just love to see the numbers of how many Switch, Switches, Switch OLEDs and Switch Lights are still sold in the US on like a quarterly basis.

• 36:43David Imel?

  That data will probably come out.

• 36:45Speaker 03

  I mean, the Switch Lights...

• 36:46David Imel?

  There probably is some data right now.

• 36:47Speaker 03

  I'm sure there's a lot of Switch Lights being sold. One, because it's the cheapest, two, because it's the smallest, and they have a bunch of colors. Like, if, it's like a Christmas gift, that's perfect.

• 36:56Andrew Manganelli?

  This is, this is just attacking all the parents and grandparents who don't know anything about consoles and when their kid asks for the new Switch, they just buy the thing, the old version accidentally for 20% discount.

• 37:08David Imel?

  I mean, a lot of people probably don't buy anything used, you know? There's probably a lot of people who just walk into the store and buy the thing, and that's how they purchase everything, so...

• 37:16Speaker 03

  That's what they're counting on.

• 37:17David Imel?

  Yep, alright, moving on, uh, we got Fediverse Corner to talk about, let's go! I need, I need Ellis to make custom Fediverse Corner music. Uh, Ghost has released Ghost 6.0. If you do not know what Ghost is, Ghost is a newsletter publishing platform and sort of also a website builder. You can kind of think it as a combination between Substack and, uh, Squarespace, which is pretty cool. It's, it feels weird saying Squarespace on a piece of content, because I've literally never done a Squarespace ad. But like, the entire, the entirety of YouTube is like powered, is like run by Squarespace ads. Anyway, I'm not doing an ad for Squarespace.

• 37:56Andrew Manganelli?

  No, you're not.

• 37:56David Imel?

  But I am doing an ad for Ghost. But they didn't pay me. Anyway, so if you watched our Fediverse Explained episode that we did last year, it was called Blue Sky versus Threads.

• 38:08Andrew Manganelli?

  Was that last year?

• 38:09David Imel?

  Yeah, it was last year, or two years ago. Actually, it might have been two years ago.

• 38:12Andrew Manganelli?

  That makes more sense.

• 38:13David Imel?

  It could have been two years ago. We broke down the protocols of the open social web in that, and we also interviewed Ghost CEO John Nolan. Because... John O. Nolan, sorry. Because he was very adamant about eventually integrating Ghost into the Fediverse. And the way that this would work effectively is that your website itself... So I have davidamel.com, right? davidamel.com now is an entity in the Fediverse. So on Threads, or on Blue Sky, or on Mastodon, you can follow davidamel.com. And then whenever I make a blog post on davidamel.com, because Ghost is a newsletter publishing platform, you can just see the blog post there.

• 38:57David Imel?

  You can like it, you can interact with it, you can comment on it. Those comments will show up on my website. So it's just kind of a way to own and distribute all of your content across the social web, which is very cool. I am trying to figure out how they integrated it with Blue Sky, because Blue Sky is on the AT protocol, which is different.

• 39:18Andrew Manganelli?

  Didn't they use the Bridgefed thing?

• 39:21David Imel?

  I don't think they did. Anyway, the update also includes a native analytics suite. I think the reason that they're doing this is because there has been a really big resurgence in Substack over the last year or so, which has been very interesting to see. Because back in 2020, Substack blew up because a bunch of journalists started leaving different publications and starting their own newsletters and making a lot of money. Substack was offering people, effectively like entire salaries, to write on there exclusively. But yeah, I think there's been this big resurgence of a bunch of regular people have been writing on Substack recently. And I think that that is a reaction to just the quickness and randomness and algorithm focus of social media. A lot of people want to do more long-form thoughts

• 40:06David Imel?

  instead of just dumb takes that are incentivized by the algorithm to be controversial.

• 40:12Andrew Manganelli?

  Blogs are back, baby.

• 40:13David Imel?

  Blogs are back, baby!

• 40:14Andrew Manganelli?

  It's funny, because everyone you're describing here is like, old reporter who made a Substack to do non-clickbity headlines.

• 40:22Andrew Manganelli?

  Makes me think of one of my friends who's the first Substack mentioned in this article talking about Ghost.

• 40:28David Imel?

  Oh, really? That's cool.

• 40:30Andrew Manganelli?

  Tangle News.

• 40:31David Imel?

  Oh, that's your friend?

• 40:32Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah. Mark and I played Ultimate with him.

• 40:34David Imel?

  Wow, that's super cool. Yeah.

• 40:36Speaker 03

  Also, Ryan Barrett, the guy who does Bridgie Fed, is part of a new social, which is the group that's like doing this whole thing. So I think, back to my point, I think they are using some sort of Bridgie Fed.

• 40:47David Imel?

  Are they? Okay.

• 40:49Speaker 03

  That would be my guess.

• 40:50David Imel?

  I emailed John O'Nolan this morning, but he does not live on this coast. I don't think he's on the, anyway, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna say where he lives. But I hate.

• 40:58Andrew Manganelli?

  Why don't you want to dox him?

• 41:00David Imel?

  As far as I understand, he lives in a different time zone. So I'm not surprised that he hasn't gotten back to me as of time of publishing. I would like to find out how they're doing that on Blue Sky, but either way, it's very cool. It's a very, also Ghost is open source, so you can host it yourself. If Ghost, the company, the business goes out of business, you can still run your website. You can still host it. It's not like all these other platforms where they get to make all the decisions and if they decide that they want to charge you a million dollars, you're just out of luck. You can do everything yourself, which is pretty freaking awesome. So Adam, you updated Cool Supply, your newsletter, to be on Ghost 6.0.

• 41:38Speaker 03

  And it was really easy. Like I logged in and then a little banner popped up and was like, hey, Ghost 6.0 is ready. Do you want to update? And I was like, oh, sure. Yeah. So I hit update and it was like, go grab a coffee. This may take a couple of minutes. And it literally took like 30 seconds.

• 41:51David Imel?

  Oh, wow.

• 41:52Speaker 03

  Everything was updated, but I don't have a lot on there, but still. It like completely updated, super chill.

• 41:56David Imel?

  Very fun little Fediverse current update because this is what John has been waiting for, for a very long time.

• 42:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:02David Imel?

  All right.

• 42:03Speaker 03

  It's like having your own little comment section.

• 42:04David Imel?

  Yeah, no, it's amazing.

• 42:05Speaker 03

  On everything.

• 42:06David Imel?

  And I think newsletters should, should come back. I've just been like, I've been nervous to do, you know, like a weekly newsletter because I don't want to be so reactive to everything all the time because I think people need to digest information more and not have a hot take about literally everything.

• 42:21Andrew Manganelli?

  This podcast would crumble if we weren't allowed to do that.

• 42:24David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 42:25Andrew Manganelli?

  We actually usually have a couple of days.

• 42:26David Imel?

  Yeah. We have a couple of days to think about it and think if it's a horrible.

• 42:29Speaker 03

  Think about what we've done.

• 42:30David Imel?

  Think about our horrible opinions. All right. Last story before we take it to break again.

• 42:36Speaker 03

  Take it to the break.

• 42:37David Imel?

  Take it to the bridge. Take it to the the bridged account.

• 42:41Speaker 03

  Nice.

• 42:42David Imel?

  Bridged Fedders.

• 42:42Speaker 03

  We tried.

• 42:43David Imel?

  Instagram now says that you need a thousand followers to go live. So if you know what going live is on Instagram, it's a live stream.

• 42:52Speaker 03

  This makes no sense to me.

• 42:54David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 42:54Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't get this at all.

• 42:55Speaker 03

  Like, if I really wanted to go live on Instagram and do something nefarious, right? What's to stop me from just botting a thousand followers to whatever account I wanted to go live from?

• 43:06Andrew Manganelli?

  And, yeah, I mean, yes, and also, if like, yeah, just bought it. But if you're a scam account that doesn't have a thousand followers, you're not scamming anyone because no one's watching the live stream.

• 43:18David Imel?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 43:19Andrew Manganelli?

  There's no, as far as I know, there's no live discoverability in Instagram. It's only page reels, like, posts and reels discoverability. You only ever see live if you're following the person. So, yeah, this actually just kind of seems really crappy to people with not a lot of followers that might still go live to like, I don't, there's.

• 43:39David Imel?

  By the way, a thousand followers is a lot of followers.

• 43:41Andrew Manganelli?

  It's a lot of followers.

• 43:42David Imel?

  Like, that's a lot of people. And I know that, like, you know, huge accounts that have millions of followers are like, that's not a lot. But regular people do not have a thousand followers.

• 43:50Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 43:50David Imel?

  Most people do not. And it's kind of lame that, you know, I have some friends in like the film photography community that are occasionally just want to like, go live and talk about some photos that they took, just to their friends.

• 44:02Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 44:02David Imel?

  And this, this makes it feel like Instagram is moving further and further away from being a platform where you share things with your friends. And more and more like, oh, we're only going to give features to people who have a large audience that can make us a lot of money.

• 44:15Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, if Instagram heard that, they'd say, thank you very much. That's exactly what we're going for. But do you know what this, like, nerfs? That's really funny. People who bought like Meta Ray-Bans or Oakley Ray-Bans because, or sorry, Meta Oakley. Because one of the cool things they've said about that is like, you can stream on Instagram live from your glasses.

• 44:35David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 44:36Andrew Manganelli?

  Which I think is actually a really cool feature, but now you need a thousand followers to do it.

• 44:40David Imel?

  That's a specific point.

• 44:41Andrew Manganelli?

  So they just nerf their own product with this. That's potentially thousands of people.

• 44:45David Imel?

  That is crazy. I did not think of that.

• 44:47Andrew Manganelli?

  Cause I've thought a couple of times about grabbing one of the pairs and like playing around of disc golf live. I'm lucky enough that I work for a thing that has me over a thousand followers, but like.

• 44:57David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 44:57Andrew Manganelli?

  I know plenty of people that I would be like, oh, my buddy's playing around live on his Meta Ray Bans right now. I'd love to watch that.

• 45:03David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 45:04Andrew Manganelli?

  They might not be able to.

• 45:05David Imel?

  That is so lame. I don't know. Some people were speculating as to why they might have made this change. Some people thought maybe they want to send, uh, save on server costs. Like if there's like less people doing live, they don't have to host it anymore.

• 45:18Speaker 03

  The first thing that I thought of was this is them kind of trying to cover their bases for.

• 45:23David Imel?

  Like random like terrorist attacks.

• 45:25Speaker 03

  Exactly. Like if you, cause every time a bad thing happens on Instagram live.

• 45:30David Imel?

  Randomly.

• 45:30Speaker 03

  It is live streamed and it's everywhere immediately. So like this kind of stops that to a certain extent. Like if you have. To be a real person, quote unquote.

• 45:38David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 45:39Speaker 03

  Like actively engaging in the community of Instagram, get a thousand followers and then go live.

• 45:43David Imel?

  Yeah. So you have like more to lose if you do something.

• 45:46Speaker 03

  Which I get, but it also completely screws over everyone trying to build their audience and get bigger.

• 45:52Andrew Manganelli?

  My argument with that, and which goes to what David said is not everyone's on Instagram to build an audience.

• 45:57David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 45:57Speaker 03

  That's true.

• 45:58Andrew Manganelli?

  I just have, some people just have friends. Like I think all the time how kind of bummed I am that I didn't like separate my Instagram and have two of them. One, that's more of the like MKBHD verse focused and one that's more of just my friends. I originally just split it off into back and then had to remake my own second one that then, but like, yeah, a lot of people just want Instagram to keep up with their friends. The only reason Facebook's still alive. There's like two Facebook groups and a few family members on there.

• 46:26David Imel?

  Marketplace.

• 46:27Andrew Manganelli?

  Is the reason I have it and Marketplace, but yeah, that's so funny. There's going to be so many people with Ray Bans that are probably live streamed like random things to their friends.

• 46:36David Imel?

  I can see it.

• 46:37Andrew Manganelli?

  I just lost a feature.

• 46:38David Imel?

  I could see a class action lawsuit around that, to be honest. If it's, if it's a major feature that they advertise.

• 46:44Andrew Manganelli?

  They did. Remember the thing? They brought in Charles Leclerc to go on like a go-kart drive with the Meta Ray Bans to, and then like he was reading the. Chat on his phone.

• 46:54Speaker 03

  Well, I feel like the

• 46:54Andrew Manganelli?

  He obviously has a thousand followers.

• 46:57Speaker 03

  The feature is still there, though. It's not like they're taking it away. So you bought these glasses for that feature.

• 47:01David Imel?

  Yeah, but you have to have a thousand.

• 47:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, like they added a barrier, but like, I don't know if you can like, take a class action lawsuit for it.

• 47:08David Imel?

  You can sue.

• 47:09Andrew Manganelli?

  I would argue that's a barrier for a lot of people that is one that won't ever be broken because their profiles are private and they don't want a thousand followers.

• 47:17David Imel?

  Yeah, actually, I know a lot of people with private profiles.

• 47:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's true.

• 47:20David Imel?

  Yeah, so dumb, dumb change.

• 47:23Andrew Manganelli?

  That was so much dumber than I expected it to be, like.

• 47:26David Imel?

  Once we talk about it, we realize it's really stupid. Anyway, that's gonna be it for this segment, so we will take it to another trivia question.

• 47:34Andrew Manganelli?

  But next, we're all talking about really cool things we love.

• 47:41Speaker 03

  Super head to head trivia. Thank you, Ellis. All right, the next question of how well do you guys know each other? What are the apps in the other person's phone doc?

• 47:52Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh.

• 47:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 47:53David Imel?

  Oh.

• 47:54Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 47:55David Imel?

  All right.

• 47:55Andrew Manganelli?

  That's

• 47:56David Imel?

  Interesting.

• 47:57Andrew Manganelli?

  Gotta be tricky.

• 47:58Speaker 03

  It is.

• 47:58David Imel?

  All right, well, we'll get that to that at the end of the show, but in the next segment, we are going to do a little show and tell with some stuff that we've been using recently, interested in recently.

• 48:07Speaker 03

  I have too.

• 48:08David Imel?

  It's gonna be fun.

• 48:09Andrew Manganelli?

  Nice. Things we want to show and tell about.

• 48:10David Imel?

  Yeah, show and I'm gonna tell.

• 48:12Speaker 03

  Share with the class.

• 48:13David Imel?

  I'm gonna tell everybody. I'm gonna tell on you.

• 48:16Speaker 03

  Do it.

• 48:17Andrew Manganelli?

  Don't tell me.

• 48:17David Imel?

  Be right back.

• 48:18Andrew Manganelli?

  That's a Marquez. He's in China.

• 48:19David Imel?

  Oh, I can tell him, Marquez.

• 48:33Speaker 01

  Support for the show comes from Jira by Atlassian. So AI is only as useful as the context it has to work from, but when that context is scattered across tools like threads and DMs, that means your team and your AI agents end up flying kind of blind. That's the problem Jira solves. What's the goal tied to your project? What got decided last week in Slack? Atlassian's teamwork graph pulls all of these pieces together from Jira, Confluence, Slack, GitHub, and more, so nothing falls through the cracks. With Jira, you can actually share that context with the AI agents you already use, like Claude, Cursor, and GitHub Copilot. Assign them work directly or connect your agents through MCP. Spend less time digging through endless links and DMs, less time chasing down what got decided and by who, and more time actually shipping.

• 49:17Speaker 01

  Learn more at jira.com. That's J-I-R-A dot com.

• 49:22Speaker 06

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• 49:58Speaker 04

  Support for the show comes from Google Gemini. You know that moment when curiosity strikes? You're exploring a new city with the family and a sculpture catches your daughter's eye. What is that? Who made it? With Gemini, you can snap a picture and get a fully interactive breakdown of its history, architecture, and even hidden secrets. Gemini is built for moments like that. Whether you're learning something new, solving a problem, or looking for your next favorite thing, Google Gemini is here to help. Download Gemini, Google's AI app, or visit Gemini dot Google dot com to learn more.

• 50:37David Imel?

  All right, welcome back to another episode of the Waveform Podcast. We're your hosts. Yeah, that's, that's gonna get old pretty quick. Okay, we're in the third segment of this episode now, and uh, this is our little-

• 50:49Andrew Manganelli?

  You're starting these so meta.

• 50:50David Imel?

  I'm try, I'm, I'm sorry. This is our, this is our little show and tell segment that we're doing this week, so we just figured we wanted to, yep. We very rarely get to talk about products that we're like individually using, because this is mostly a news show. And I kinda wanted to talk about a new tripod that I've been using a lot recently.

• 51:10Andrew Manganelli?

  What tripod? You this morning were like, "I really wanna talk about this. Can we do show and tell?" And I was like, "Wait, I actually do have something that I just got that I want to talk about."

• 51:18David Imel?

  That's awesome. That's very cool.

• 51:19Andrew Manganelli?

  So let's do it. Let's start tripod.

• 51:20David Imel?

  Okay, so if you are a photographer or in the photography community, you've probably heard of Peak Design. They are a very high-quality, quite expensive brand that creates what they would call peak design.

• 51:35Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh my god, I never realized that.

• 51:38David Imel?

  It's like, I think it's like a double entendre, like peak like mountain, but also like the best. I don't know. Anyway, uh, I've had their original travel tripod for a really, really, really long time. Basically since it came out. I believe it was like 2018, 2017, 2018. Something like that. Uh, I have the carbon fiber one, which is too expensive. Uh, it is $600. It's really expensive. But it's basically the best super lightweight tripod that I've used. Um, I keep it. I do a lot of hiking, so I like keep it in my backpack and it's very easy to just slap my cameras on and.

• 52:14Andrew Manganelli?

  It just like tucks into pretty much like your water bottle holder on the side pretty easy. Cause who needs water on hikes when you can have a $600 tripod instead? But like, it's one of those things that can simultaneously be too expensive and also just like.

• 52:27David Imel?

  Really, really high quality.

• 52:28Andrew Manganelli?

  The best thing ever. If that's the scenario you have it in.

• 52:31David Imel?

  Yeah. And they do have an aluminum version of this, which is not that much heavier and it's much cheaper. So, you know, that's still also a good option. Anyway, this has been around for a very long time. It does have some quirks and features. And, uh, that is why they eventually made this new one called the, it's the Peak Design Pro line of tripods. Uh, so this is the small one. For some reason, Peak Design made three of the new, of the new Pro tripods.

• 52:58Andrew Manganelli?

  Do you know what the differences are between?

• 53:00David Imel?

  Yeah. So they, it's mostly that they hold different amounts of weight and also, uh, can get taller and shorter and stuff like that. This is the small one. So this will be compared to the original tripod right here. If you want to do that. Yeah. I don't know if people.

• 53:14Andrew Manganelli?

  This is like significantly bigger than I thought it was going to be.

• 53:17David Imel?

  Yeah, it is quite a bit bigger. So for me, um, the one problem that I have always had with the original, well, not one problem. Maybe the biggest problem I have, I've had with the original travel tripod is that I shoot 4x5 film pretty often. 4x5 film is like one of those large view cameras that you would see in like the 1940s. And when I would use this, uh, it would have some shake because those cameras are very big. They're not really, these tripods are not really made for like big payloads. So I think part of the reason that Peak Design got into this, uh, market segment was that they wanted to probably tackle people that are using like way heavier duty, harder core cameras.

• 53:59David Imel?

  Uh, and then there are just some engineering things with the original tripod that they made better. So for example, it has this quick lock mechanism that allows you to just like displace the, uh, they have this little mount that is kind of like standard to them. Um, and it looks like this.

• 54:16Andrew Manganelli?

  The tripod mount that goes on the camera, like the original one's square. It's very small, but I, I liked what it was. My, my biggest complaint about it was the little area that they hold the Allen wrench for it. The Allen wrench.

• 54:29David Imel?

  Always. I have.

• 54:31Andrew Manganelli?

  Yours is missing. I noticed that. Yeah.

• 54:33David Imel?

  And you do need an Allen wrench in order to put this on your camera. So what I've ended up doing, I'm not going to show my keys on camera because people always yell at me about that. But I've put an Allen wrench on my keychain. So I constantly have an Allen wrench with me. Anyway, some of the problems that the original tripod had is that if you raise the head here, and I'm sorry if this is really boring to non-camera people, but if you raise the head here and you want to, um, like put it at an angle, you can only... Wait, what was it?

• 55:07Andrew Manganelli?

  So it's on a, it's a ball head.

• 55:09David Imel?

  Yeah, it's a ball, wait.

• 55:10Andrew Manganelli?

  And there's like these three different dividers essentially that fall down into the tripod when it's tucked all the way in.

• 55:17David Imel?

  Right.

• 55:17Andrew Manganelli?

  And sometimes that makes turning it sideways. Difficult because it kind of gets in the way.

• 55:22David Imel?

  Yeah, it can kind of get in the way.

• 55:23Andrew Manganelli?

  Assuming that's what you're talking about.

• 55:25David Imel?

  So this new one is more of a standard ball head where you can just pivot and twist in like many different directions. So that's very handy.

• 55:34Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 55:34David Imel?

  You can just go 360 instead of having to, you know, jam in there. That's very useful. Uh, the big thing about the four by five cameras though, is that this, because the four by five is so big and it's not super heavy, but it does have a lot of surface area. It would shake a lot. And when it was windy on like a mountain. And that was very frustrating because there's no optical image stabilization on four by five film, obviously. So any, even the most like micro shake would, would mess up the image. Um, these are much more stable. Even the small one is like super stable. They also re-engineered the center column, uh, to add a bunch of different features. They changed the clips a little bit. Overall, it's kind of just like a much more sturdy system.

• 56:17David Imel?

  Also, when you're clipping in the camera, it now has the spring loaded mechanism.

• 56:24Andrew Manganelli?

  This, I was just messing with this.

• 56:25David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 56:26Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, the spring loaded mechanism for the, the tripod mount on a camera attaching feels super nice.

• 56:32David Imel?

  It feels really good. So yeah, effectively you, you like unlock it by pulling this and it, it pulls up this little tab that when you put the, uh, plate in, it snaps it closed.

• 56:44Andrew Manganelli?

  They've been into the mic.

• 56:45David Imel?

  Talking to your mic a little bit. Oh, sorry.

• 56:46Andrew Manganelli?

  He's getting too excited.

• 56:47David Imel?

  Locks it in. Yeah, I'm sorry. I love tripods. And it like locks it in and then they have an extra locker right here. So I don't know, everything about these tripods is definitely about like stability and being able to shoot things without any shake and stuff like that. They made the clips a little bit easier to use because un, unclipping and clipping a tripod always takes forever. Um, yeah. So I've been really enjoying this. I don't love how big it is. Like you cannot really beat this original tripod size, uh, because this can fit in like basically any water bottle pocket of any backpack that I have. Whereas the, the new pro ones definitely are bulkier, even the small one.

• 57:29David Imel?

  For some reason they made it in a small, medium and large form. The large makes a lot of sense because it's for like giant payload. Like they're trying to get into the cinema kind of landscape. They, they sell a, a fluid head adapter that makes it so you can use it as a fluid head tripod. But I don't really understand why they made the medium one because the small and the medium are almost exactly the same size. And they go up in size in prices, uh, prices of a hundred dollars. So they call it pro light, pro and pro tall. So I'm not really, I don't really know. But overall, like this has made my photography a lot.

• 58:07David Imel?

  More reliable, I guess, specifically with my four by five camera.

• 58:09Andrew Manganelli?

  I can see like, I understand it being larger and the main problem you have with it is shake instability. So like, making it larger is probably the only way to really fix that. And if you're, I would argue if you're carrying something like your four by five camera, you probably aren't trying to be in like this level of light payload where like this could be, I took this tripod with me and just like a Sony A7R.

• 58:34David Imel?

  Right.

• 58:34Andrew Manganelli?

  With other hiking stuff. So like, to me, it was just part of the pack and then like not too bad.

• 58:41Andrew Manganelli?

  But seeing this, I think it's really cool. They obviously, I mean, Peak's quality is always.

• 58:46David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 58:46Andrew Manganelli?

  Absolutely. At the top of its game. This looks like they solved a bunch of the issues, but seeing it and seeing its side just makes me still like the original one.

• 58:56David Imel?

  The original one is great.

• 58:58Andrew Manganelli?

  It's so, it's so small. It's so like, when you are somebody, and I see this now all the time, watching like disc golf YouTube of people like, lugging tripods around all over a disc golf course, like, you want a really small one, but the problem is all the really small ones are really flimsy.

• 59:13David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 59:14Andrew Manganelli?

  This is, they nailed their target demographic with this one, despite its price. I think getting into the bigger game. The, when you talk about the larger one and huge payloads and cinema stuff is like, we have really good cinema tripods already. It feels, that feels like a crowded space.

• 59:31David Imel?

  For sure.

• 59:32Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm sure Peak Design can get into it, um, but.

• 59:34David Imel?

  I think it's probably for people that like everything that they own is in the Peak Design ecosystem.

• 59:38Andrew Manganelli?

  That's fair.

• 59:39David Imel?

  They have built out quite in like an ecosystem that uses all of their things and they interlock with each other and they've got all these features. But yeah, I think for like, most people, the original one, even the aluminum one is like more than great. This is really going to be if you have a specific use case. Like me with the four by five.

• 59:56Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, this, the, the travel tripod feels like I'm packing it with other things. The pro tripods feel like my pack is all cameras.

• 1:00:06David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:06Andrew Manganelli?

  That's all, that's all that's in my pack.

• 1:00:08David Imel?

  Been me for a while now.

• 1:00:09Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, yeah, but that's because you sacrifice the rest of survival things for your cameras.

• 1:00:14David Imel?

  I'm having lower back problems. So, yeah. Yeah, I don't know. For my book, it's been great.

• 1:00:19Andrew Manganelli?

  No, these, I mean, this is sick.

• 1:00:22David Imel?

  Yeah. And it can get a little bit tighter down too, because of that redesigned center column.

• 1:00:26Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, the center column seems way larger, which is the best part about it.

• 1:00:30David Imel?

  Also, when the original one was all the way down like this, it couldn't tilt at all. So the only way to bring it up, you had to loosen it, bring it up to here, tighten it. And then it could, and then it could rotate. But that means it can't go quite as low, whereas this one can, it can tilt even when it, even when it's all the way down.

• 1:00:49Andrew Manganelli?

  Lowest stage, yeah.

• 1:00:50David Imel?

  Yeah, which is pretty cool.

• 1:00:51Andrew Manganelli?

  Do you know what I appreciate? Even though this is the pro version, it still has the little hidden cellphone holder.

• 1:00:57David Imel?

  So this has always been a really cool feature. In the bottom, there is a hook. Generally on tripods, that hook is for stability. So you put like a backpack on the hook. And that basically just adds a bunch of weight to the tripod so that it shakes less. And I still do that. The hook on the bigger one is obviously bigger. But inside of that column, they have a secret little cellphone holder that you can put on the tripod. So if you want to do like Astro mode on your Pixel or something, you can now use the tripod with your Pixel instead of having to buy a brand new tripod just for phones.

• 1:01:30Andrew Manganelli?

  That's cool.

• 1:01:30David Imel?

  So I think that that's really cool. Um, also, obviously, we talked about the, you need an Allen key, which is very kind of frustrating because you can lose it pretty easily. And they have a clip on the, on the tripod itself to store the Allen key. In the new ones, the bags now have a slot for the Allen key. So I think that they want you to keep it in the bag more. The previous bag had like two microns of extra room.

• 1:01:55Andrew Manganelli?

  It's like putting a sleeping bag back in like a sleeping bag or like a tent back in a bag.

• 1:02:00David Imel?

  So hard to get it in and out. Um, so the new one has a slot in there and they gave it a little more. More slack. So I don't know. I just wanted to bring that up because I've been doing a lot of mountain climbing recently and I've been using this a lot. So, yeah.

• 1:02:13Andrew Manganelli?

  Nice.

• 1:02:14David Imel?

  Nice. They're still on Kickstarter right now, though, so.

• 1:02:16Andrew Manganelli?

  What's the final price? Did you say it?

• 1:02:17David Imel?

  Yeah, they're really expensive. They're like really expensive. So the Pro Lite is going to be $800. The Pro, the Pro is going to be $900 and then the Pro Tall, they call it, because I think it just gets taller, is going to be $1,000. So. Yeah, really expensive. They're also selling a lot of new accessories with these. They have a new leveling base for people who like that and they have spiked feet for $49.

• 1:02:47Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, it does have the level on it.

• 1:02:49David Imel?

  Yeah, it has a level.

• 1:02:50Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, yeah, both of them have level. Okay.

• 1:02:51David Imel?

  But a leveling base is like that weird like cage thing that you can use with cameras. It's like, it's kind of an old school, like hardcore photographer feature. Yeah, then they have spiked feet. So I guess if you're, you know, in the mountains and you want to like really, really, really rig it down, if you're do, I guess if you were doing like a really, really long exposure and you just wanted it to not, you know, overnight kind of long exposure.

• 1:03:16Andrew Manganelli?

  I mean, they co-developed this with Jimmy Chin, so they're gonna

• 1:03:19David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:19Andrew Manganelli?

  do it in a scenario where it's a

• 1:03:21David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:22Andrew Manganelli?

  It's lasting out there for sure.

• 1:03:24David Imel?

  Yeah. Anyway, just wanted to bring that up real quick.

• 1:03:27Andrew Manganelli?

  All right.

• 1:03:27David Imel?

  What did you have?

• 1:03:28Andrew Manganelli?

  I brought something that is significantly cheaper.

• 1:03:32David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:33Andrew Manganelli?

  And cheapness is actually part of the reason why I find it interesting.

• 1:03:35David Imel?

  And probably more useful to more people, I would guess.

• 1:03:37Andrew Manganelli?

  Uh, maybe. So my thing is, is like you wanted to possibly label this section like our favorite things, but I don't want to call this a favorite because

• 1:03:45David Imel?

  I was mostly kidding.

• 1:03:46Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:46David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:47Andrew Manganelli?

  This is

• 1:03:48David Imel?

  Oh, you got one of these?

• 1:03:49Andrew Manganelli?

  That I saw on The Verge.

• 1:03:51David Imel?

  You got one of these?

• 1:03:52Andrew Manganelli?

  So I think I first saw it on The Verge. It is called the Scinda Ergonomic Mouse Rechargeable USB Dual Bluetooth MOU 302 Vertical Wireless Mouth with Volume Knob.

• 1:04:01David Imel?

  Some Amazon ass title.

• 1:04:03Andrew Manganelli?

  More to that, but I don't feel like saying all of it. Essentially, it's a vertical ergonomic wireless mouse.

• 1:04:09David Imel?

  I love the colors.

• 1:04:09Andrew Manganelli?

  That comes in some wild colors. I bought arguably the coolest color, which is like purple, yellow. And like a vintagey green, like this feels very like um.

• 1:04:21David Imel?

  It's like a turquoise.

• 1:04:21Andrew Manganelli?

  Like Rocco's Modern Life.

• 1:04:23David Imel?

  Or like a seafoam.

• 1:04:24Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:24David Imel?

  Green.

• 1:04:25Andrew Manganelli?

  Um, and what, so I saw it because of the color and because of the integrated volume knob. So essentially the mouse, because it's vertical and ergonomic, it's, you know, the, the buttons are almost sideways. And you hold it like you're holding a glass of water, essentially where you're kind of pinching it in between your hand. And then on the top, now it's got extra space. There's still a front and back button on the sides of it where your thumb rests. But above it, there's a little knob that clicks in and can turn. Um, that's what intrigued me by is the colors in that knob.

• 1:04:58David Imel?

  Els is shaking in his boots. He hates knobs.

• 1:05:02Andrew Manganelli?

  Um, what really intrigued me though, is when I clicked on the link for it, it was on sale for 1959.

• 1:05:10David Imel?

  That's crazy.

• 1:05:11Andrew Manganelli?

  The list price at 27.99.

• 1:05:13David Imel?

  That's crazy.

• 1:05:14Andrew Manganelli?

  Part, I don't know how they're making money off of this.

• 1:05:18David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:18Andrew Manganelli?

  By no means saying the build quality on this is great. I wouldn't even say it's very good.

• 1:05:23David Imel?

  Yeah, I would say it feels like it's 20 bucks.

• 1:05:25Andrew Manganelli?

  It feels like it's 20 bucks, but when you look at a Logitech, I think they have the Logitech Lift and the Logitech Vertical are two of those. And they're like 80 and like over a hundred dollars.

• 1:05:36David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:36Andrew Manganelli?

  For them and they're great mice and like people like rich here love them. I don't love vertical ergonomic mice, but I'm trying.

• 1:05:44David Imel?

  Really, it's way better to get rid of your carpal tunnel.

• 1:05:47Andrew Manganelli?

  We'll see if it stresses me out more than my carpal tunnel than I, um, but I think there's some design flaws in this. I, I think the reason I want to be really cautious about talking about this is because I've used it for less than a week.

• 1:06:00David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:00Andrew Manganelli?

  And I don't know the durability of it.

• 1:06:02David Imel?

  Sure.

• 1:06:02Andrew Manganelli?

  Um, but for $20 I had to try and I'm going to keep trying it.

• 1:06:07David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:07Andrew Manganelli?

  The colors are sick.

• 1:06:08David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:08Andrew Manganelli?

  It's USB C, which took Logitech years to finally switch to.

• 1:06:13David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:13Andrew Manganelli?

  It does, it can do two Bluetooth connections and the USB dongle, which I'm always a dongle person. I think it's easier. Um, just like a little, you know, USB A.

• 1:06:22David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:24Andrew Manganelli?

  The things I have not liked about it is I don't believe there's any software. So I cannot change what the volume knob, I can't change what the volume knob does, which really sucks for me because I'm using an audio interface, which means my volume keys don't do anything when I'm plugged into my desktop.

• 1:06:40David Imel?

  Okay.

• 1:06:41Andrew Manganelli?

  So the volume knob does nothing for me.

• 1:06:42David Imel?

  Also, how sensitive, how do you deal with sensitivity?

• 1:06:45Andrew Manganelli?

  There's, there are three DPI modes and then you also can just change sensitivity inside of macOS or whatever.

• 1:06:51Speaker 03

  How's the latency when you're playing old school RuneScape?

• 1:06:54David Imel?

  I was gonna say you should play Valorant with this.

• 1:06:55Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm definitely not playing, I should try Valorant with it, that would be hilarious how bad it would be.

• 1:07:00David Imel?

  I kinda like the way it feels. I'd say that the, um, the sliders on the bottom are horrible. Like, it feels like it's kind of like there's a lot of.

• 1:07:08Andrew Manganelli?

  It felt fine on my mouse pad.

• 1:07:09David Imel?

  Yeah, maybe the mouse pad would be better than this.

• 1:07:11Andrew Manganelli?

  My biggest gripe with it, and we found this out when we were comparing to Rich, is the Logitech verticals where your mouse rests almost has like a bed for your thumb to rest on where it juts out. This is just straight down and you're kind of like always gripping this mouse. Um, I say it's kind of like if you're a climber, like pinch holds. You're always pinching this, you're not really resting your hand on the mouse at all, which is comfortable, I think.

• 1:07:37David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:38Andrew Manganelli?

  Which makes you really have to think about using it. I've been kind of enjoying it. I find myself doing way more wrist movements than like whole arm movements to move things, to go around and click on stuff. It's taken a really long time to get used to vertical mouse. It feels really strange. Um, they're silent buttons, which is a lot of what like the MX Master's been doing now. I think they actually feel kind of nice. Scroll wheel feels like [BLEEP], but I don't really care that much. It's $19 and it works. The knob doesn't feel bad. It's cheap plastic, but it's got some like nice feedback to it.

• 1:08:09David Imel?

  The tactility of the clicking is nice.

• 1:08:10Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, and it's, I mean, it was essentially plug and play. I plugged it right into my computer and it just started working. Um, I'm assuming it would on Windows as well, but.

• 1:08:19David Imel?

  Cool. Yeah, I don't know how they use for 20 bucks. Yeah, it's crazy.

• 1:08:23Andrew Manganelli?

  It seems I do not know what the battery life's yet. Yeah, I've charged it once and it's still going after a few days. So yeah.

• 1:08:30Speaker 03

  How many colors does it come in?

• 1:08:31David Imel?

  Yeah, what are the other?

• 1:08:32Andrew Manganelli?

  Four. So there's a plain black. There's a pink. What are they even calling this? They literally don't even have color. Oh, no, they're just calling it pink. Pink, but it's like two different types of pink. The buttons and the scroll wheel are, or sorry, the buttons and then volume knob are different color. This is the purple and green version. They just call it purple. There's a light blue version and there's the straight black version.

• 1:08:54Speaker 03

  That one's definitely.

• 1:08:54Andrew Manganelli?

  You can also buy two packs of these.

• 1:08:57David Imel?

  Really?

• 1:08:57Andrew Manganelli?

  For $42.

• 1:08:59David Imel?

  Wow. So it's more exp- wait.

• 1:09:02Andrew Manganelli?

  Right now, that's more expensive, but it's not more expensive if you're assuming the list price of 20. I don't know how cheap it, how long it'll be this cheap.

• 1:09:11David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:12Andrew Manganelli?

  If you decide to go out and get this, I cannot promise you how long it will work. I assume it will work as long as $20 is worth.

• 1:09:23Andrew Manganelli?

  But I was, I was very intrigued by it.

• 1:09:25David Imel?

  I want to see you game with this.

• 1:09:27Andrew Manganelli?

  There's no way I'm gaming.

• 1:09:28David Imel?

  I need to see a pro Twitch streamer just using this and.

• 1:09:31Andrew Manganelli?

  That would be, I'm sure someone's done it, but getting like pro CS players to play it with like crappy mice. I bet the latency on this is terrible.

• 1:09:40David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:41Andrew Manganelli?

  But no one buys an ergonomic mouse for like great latency.

• 1:09:45David Imel?

  Yeah, yeah. Cool.

• 1:09:47Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, that's, that's it. The Sinda ergonomic M O U 302.

• 1:09:52David Imel?

  Seen, seen.

• 1:09:54Andrew Manganelli?

  Multiple device cordless mice compatible for Windows, PC, laptop, Mac OS, purple.

• 1:09:58David Imel?

  Pink. Sinda.

• 1:10:02Andrew Manganelli?

  They make a bunch of other random stuff.

• 1:10:04David Imel?

  Really?

• 1:10:05Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, I've never heard of them. Although, okay, so here's my other thing. This is probably why it's so cheap. I'm almost positive it's just white labeled something because I saw a different, really weird ergonomic mouse that looks like an oven mitt. And it's also vertical.

• 1:10:19David Imel?

  That looks different, though.

• 1:10:21Andrew Manganelli?

  This is different, but seeing them makes one that looks exactly like this one, even though that one's from a different company. So I basically found two of the exact same mice under two different companies I'd never heard of, which makes me just assume this is white labeled from somewhere.

• 1:10:33David Imel?

  Sounds like one of those Alibaba things.

• 1:10:35Andrew Manganelli?

  Yep.

• 1:10:36David Imel?

  Got it.

• 1:10:37Andrew Manganelli?

  All right.

• 1:10:38David Imel?

  Neat.

• 1:10:38Andrew Manganelli?

  Cool.

• 1:10:38David Imel?

  Adam.

• 1:10:39Speaker 03

  Yo. All right. I've got two.

• 1:10:42David Imel?

  Ooh.

• 1:10:42Speaker 03

  One of them is hardware, one of them is software.

• 1:10:44David Imel?

  Ooh.

• 1:10:45Speaker 03

  So for the last few weeks, I have been asked a surprising amount of times, what is this teal thing on the back of my phone?

• 1:10:52David Imel?

  Oh, yeah, those are awesome.

• 1:10:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, this is a Moft tripod, basically. So it attaches MagSafe to a phone. Now I'm on iPhone, so it attaches perfectly. Last week I was on Pixel, so it attaches to the case, but...

• 1:11:05David Imel?

  But it will attach to the Pixel 10.

• 1:11:07Speaker 03

  It will attach to the Pixel 10, allegedly.

• 1:11:09David Imel?

  Allegedly.

• 1:11:09Speaker 03

  We'll see in 14 days.

• 1:11:10David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:10Speaker 03

  But it's just a little MagSafe stand that like uses resistance to kind of prop itself up. Or if you need to get it taller, you could like kind of fold it all the way out, which is really cool. It has multiple angles and stuff like that, so... It's just a really like handy thing to have attached to your phone if you're not gonna have anything on MagSafe anyway.

• 1:11:28David Imel?

  My friend Birgit has that and she does like content creation for a film company.

• 1:11:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:11:32David Imel?

  And it's amazing just watching her just like prop it up and making stuff all the time.

• 1:11:36Andrew Manganelli?

  You know, Peak Design had a really awesome magnetic tripod for a phone, but it was like the proprietary

• 1:11:42David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:43Andrew Manganelli?

  own connect magnetic connection on their cases, and I just really dislike the fabric on their cases.

• 1:11:48David Imel?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:11:49Andrew Manganelli?

  The tripod was sick. Like, it was so cool how maneuverable it was and how small it was on the back of the phone. But their tripod case got grody so...

• 1:11:59David Imel?

  The phone case.

• 1:12:00Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, yeah, sorry, the phone case got grody really fast.

• 1:12:02David Imel?

  Have they changed the material of that?

• 1:12:03Andrew Manganelli?

  I have no idea. I don't know if they're even still really doing it.

• 1:12:05David Imel?

  Yeah, they're making it. They use this really, at the beginning, they use this really thin, light material that just got kind of disgusting pretty quickly.

• 1:12:13Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, and it had a lot of like, um, it was like woven, so whenever you have woven stuff like that, it just means so much more dirt and grime.

• 1:12:20David Imel?

  Right.

• 1:12:21Andrew Manganelli?

  And I liked it because I could film climbing stuff with it, which meant my hands were chalky, which meant that thing in like two weeks was disgusting.

• 1:12:28David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:29Speaker 03

  Nice. All right.

• 1:12:30David Imel?

  What's your software?

• 1:12:30Speaker 03

  The software that I got, uh, the reason I actually switched back to the iPhone was to try this piece of software and Brandon put me onto it a couple of months ago, which is the not boring software, like sweet of things.

• 1:12:43David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:43Speaker 03

  So in one of the studio videos, he was talking about his weather app. The developer of that weather app, Andy Allen, makes a bunch of different like utility apps. And basically his whole thing is he takes a app that's pretty much a stock app on the iPhone and just makes it super pretty and cool. So like in the studio video, Brandon was talking about the weather app. He recently released one for a camera. It's like retro camera and this camera app is just so sick. It's so fun to use.

• 1:13:12David Imel?

  Not boring camera.

• 1:13:13Speaker 03

  It is not boring at all. And it, it's almost like, remember we spoke about the X half a couple of weeks ago?

• 1:13:18David Imel?

  Yeah, the Fuji X.

• 1:13:19Speaker 03

  The Fuji X half. And it's like, you use it because it kind of mimics a film camera. Like that was part of the allure of it. Like you can't relook at the photos you use or whatever. This app kind of does something similar, which is, you know, in the regular camera app, you take a picture, the little preview goes down to like the bottom left and has like a gallery that you can then click to see what, that does not exist on this camera app. So it is just the viewfinder, but you can customize the way the camera looks. It's really fun and quirky. There's a bunch of colors and stuff like that. And it does do like the best feature that I personally like about it is that it does have really nice like filters and LUTs and recipes. And you can even import your own if you want. It is a paid app.

• 1:14:02Speaker 03

  I believe it's like $14.99 for the year. So like, I don't know, a dollar or something a month, but it's like overall a really fun app. You can also save just the straight up raw if you want. So you can take a regular picture in their recipe or whatever, and then still have your raw photo saved in the background, which is cool. Uh, I prefer that, but so far I've been really liking it. I've been using it for like a week and the pictures that I'm getting are like fantastic.

• 1:14:27David Imel?

  Yeah. I love everything that these guys make.

• 1:14:29Speaker 03

  The UI looks really similar to your, uh, rendered iPad case from the Shark Tank episode.

• 1:14:37David Imel?

  Oh, yes. You're right.

• 1:14:38Andrew Manganelli?

  A little more colorful, but.

• 1:14:39Speaker 03

  It's just a really, I like seeing things that have more intentional design.

• 1:14:45David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:45Speaker 03

  And more fun.

• 1:14:46David Imel?

  Yeah, these guys also make not boring calculator and not boring weather.

• 1:14:50Speaker 03

  Not boring habits.

• 1:14:51Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, I'm, when you said a new app they did and I looked on their thing and saw habits, I was like, he's about to talk about habits.

• 1:14:57Speaker 03

  Oh, that's next. I have that downloaded as well.

• 1:15:00David Imel?

  It seems like everything that they make is sort of like the most boring, like utilitarian thing, and they just make it really fun.

• 1:15:05Speaker 03

  They just make it pretty and fun, which is one of the reasons I'm so excited about, this is not iPhone, but Material 3 Expressive.

• 1:15:12David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:12Speaker 03

  Cause it's like the whole UI of the phone is that kind of fun material expression.

• 1:15:18David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:19Speaker 03

  But apps like these on iPhone that are just like fun to use and look cool.

• 1:15:23David Imel?

  They definitely feel like material.

• 1:15:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's more like this is supposed to be fun and whimsical and different.

• 1:15:29David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:29Speaker 03

  Not like very monotone and clean, like the old aesthetic of Apple. So like having this app on an iPhone has just been like a fun, weird experience.

• 1:15:40David Imel?

  Cool.

• 1:15:40Speaker 03

  So highly recommended.

• 1:15:41David Imel?

  That's awesome.

• 1:15:42Andrew Manganelli?

  I just want to say, hey, Andy, us Android people like to have fun too. I wouldn't mind trying some of these out.

• 1:15:48Speaker 03

  I made a whole episode about why there are so many different iOS apps and no Android apps.

• 1:15:54Andrew Manganelli?

  I want to have fun.

• 1:15:56Speaker 03

  You're not allowed. You're only allowed to go on.

• 1:15:58Andrew Manganelli?

  I'll have a lot of fun with my limoncello pixel phone.

• 1:16:01David Imel?

  Piss color. All right, let's move on to trivia.

• 1:16:13Speaker 03

  Super head to head trivia. All right, so first question, how well do you guys know each other? Look at your average screen time and guess the other person's most used app.

• 1:16:26David Imel?

  Go.

• 1:16:27Andrew Manganelli?

  And we're doing of like the last week, right?

• 1:16:29Speaker 03

  Last seven days, yeah.

• 1:16:31Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:31Speaker 03

  Or like seven days in general, not like the last seven days until now, but.

• 1:16:35Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm worried this is gonna be really boring.

• 1:16:37Speaker 03

  Don't give him a hint.

• 1:16:38David Imel?

  Oh, wait, you're giving me a hint? Shoot, I think I know what it is now.

• 1:16:43Andrew Manganelli?

  Maybe at the end of these exhibition matches, the winner will win something, who knows? No pressure.

• 1:16:50Andrew Manganelli?

  You probably won't win anything, though.

• 1:16:53Speaker 03

  Alright, flip 'em and read. What do you got?

• 1:16:55Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, you went way too boring.

• 1:16:58David Imel?

  Oh dang. I said Instagram. I'm sorry, you said Instagram. I said Google Maps.

• 1:17:03Andrew Manganelli?

  No. I forgot you don't know what the answer is. I said Instagram.

• 1:17:08David Imel?

  No.

• 1:17:09Speaker 03

  Ooh.

• 1:17:09Andrew Manganelli?

  Alright, mine was Instagram.

• 1:17:11David Imel?

  Oh, really?

• 1:17:11Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:12David Imel?

  Oh dang. Mine was Reddit.

• 1:17:15Andrew Manganelli?

  Was it really?

• 1:17:16David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:16Andrew Manganelli?

  Can I, wait.

• 1:17:18David Imel?

  Cause I'm hooked on that Pokemon Trading Card Game.

• 1:17:21Andrew Manganelli?

  And you're reading all the-

• 1:17:22David Imel?

  And the subreddit's really fun.

• 1:17:23Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay.

• 1:17:24Speaker 03

  So me and Ellis thought that yours was gonna be the Pokemon Trading Card Game.

• 1:17:28David Imel?

  Oh, it was number one for today.

• 1:17:30Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:17:31David Imel?

  I already had 45 minutes.

• 1:17:32Andrew Manganelli?

  That's what I should have guessed though. So, wait, can we talk about something with Reddit that's really funny? My favorite thing about the new Reddit app is if you take a screenshot of a post-

• 1:17:41David Imel?

  Does it have a new Reddit app?

• 1:17:42Andrew Manganelli?

  The Reddit app, ever since they killed all the other, ever since they killed the good ones, yeah.

• 1:17:47David Imel?

  The bad official-

• 1:17:48Andrew Manganelli?

  If you screenshot a post-

• 1:17:50David Imel?

  It recommends-

• 1:17:50Andrew Manganelli?

  It's so quickly, bros, puts this little crappy pop-up, cause it's in, it's all in white and just like plain text, it's just like, "Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Don't you wanna share this instead?"

• 1:18:00David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:00Andrew Manganelli?

  It's so much more fun if you share this with someone, like, "Eat my screenshot for it."

• 1:18:05David Imel?

  Because then it gives you a link and then the link opens the Reddit app. Yeah.

• 1:18:10Andrew Manganelli?

  It's, it makes me happy every time I do it.

• 1:18:12David Imel?

  Yeah, it's like, "You can't stop me."

• 1:18:14Andrew Manganelli?

  I was worried mine was gonna be Reddit, cause I still do go on it pretty often and then get frustrated, but, you know, it wouldn't help my public image if it was Reddit.

• 1:18:22David Imel?

  I will say, annoying, like, cause everyone sort of has their sort of like, "My brain needs sustenance" app, right? I'm annoyed that mine has become Reddit as of recent weeks and I do not like that.

• 1:18:36Andrew Manganelli?

  I've just tried to make my following subreddits so, actually, mine are so small that the majority of the time Reddit just doesn't work for me, because it won't re-show me articles and then like, just nothing will show up in the homepage, which is another glaring, awesome development by the Reddit app, because it's just such a good app.

• 1:18:57David Imel?

  Yeah, it's really bad.

• 1:18:58Andrew Manganelli?

  It's fucking terrible.

• 1:18:59David Imel?

  Yeah, it's bad. Damn.

• 1:19:00Andrew Manganelli?

  But, alright. What was the next, I don't remember the next question.

• 1:19:03Speaker 03

  The next question is, what apps are on the other person's doc? On your phone specifically?

• 1:19:12Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm gonna answer and then ask a question.

• 1:19:14Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:19:16David Imel?

  Is it one point for each?

• 1:19:17Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:19:18David Imel?

  Okay.

• 1:19:27David Imel?

  You got this. No pressure.

• 1:19:34Speaker 03

  Alright. Flip him and read. What do you got?

• 1:19:36David Imel?

  Uh, I put messages. Is that on there?

• 1:19:40Andrew Manganelli?

  Uh, sorry. Okay, wait. So here's how I'm gonna ask Adam. How do I score this? I have two folders on my dock.

• 1:19:47David Imel?

  What?

• 1:19:47Andrew Manganelli?

  Does every app inside my folders count?

• 1:19:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:19:51Andrew Manganelli?

  Then basically David can't lose.

• 1:19:53David Imel?

  Exactly.

• 1:19:54Andrew Manganelli?

  David could have-

• 1:19:54David Imel?

  Your whole phone is on your dock?

• 1:19:55Andrew Manganelli?

  You could have gotten 70 points off of this.

• 1:19:58David Imel?

  How many apps do you have on your dock?

• 1:20:00Andrew Manganelli?

  Each folder has 12 apps.

• 1:20:02David Imel?

  You're a monster.

• 1:20:03Andrew Manganelli?

  And then I have three other apps.

• 1:20:04David Imel?

  Dude, the entire point of the dock is quick access.

• 1:20:07Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, quick access. Oh, okay.

• 1:20:09David Imel?

  To 24 apps?

• 1:20:10Andrew Manganelli?

  No, but these folders, if I accidentally, if I like get rid of one of them, I like forget how to function on this because like my thumb is so used to picking things just by second nature that like-

• 1:20:23David Imel?

  You don't search?

• 1:20:23Andrew Manganelli?

  If one of these shifts, no.

• 1:20:25David Imel?

  Oh yeah, I just pull down and search everything.

• 1:20:28Andrew Manganelli?

  That takes so much longer.

• 1:20:30Speaker 03

  I mean, yeah, but then you don't need to worry about where it is.

• 1:20:33Andrew Manganelli?

  I would argue 99% of the apps I use in a day are in one of these folders on my dock and it's just like, it's almost like a shortcut key to just press it.

• 1:20:42David Imel?

  This is insane.

• 1:20:43Andrew Manganelli?

  How is it, you guys type it out every time you wanna find something?

• 1:20:46Speaker 03

  Well, I just have a dock and then if I need to find something, then yeah, I'll just search for it.

• 1:20:50David Imel?

  Every time I-

• 1:20:51Andrew Manganelli?

  I think the comments are gonna agree with me on this one.

• 1:20:54Speaker 03

  I disagree. I think the comments are on our side.

• 1:20:56Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, you guys also though, oh, you have a homepage though. I have literally nothing else on my homepage. I only have my dock.

• 1:21:03David Imel?

  Got it. I have like my most used apps on my homepage and then when I wanna use something else, I swipe down and search.

• 1:21:11Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, I just have nothing on my homepage. My five icons on the dock, two of them are folders and they're the apps that I use every day and I never go into my app drawer pretty much.

• 1:21:20David Imel?

  So this, this question is kind of moot then.

• 1:21:22Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, no, cuz he still has to guess yours.

• 1:21:25David Imel?

  Alright. And David- Did I just show you?

• 1:21:26Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, I'm not giving you frisbee.

• 1:21:27David Imel?

  Did I just show you?

• 1:21:29Andrew Manganelli?

  I've wrote it down already.

• 1:21:30David Imel?

  Oh, true.

• 1:21:31Speaker 03

  But David, what did you say for?

• 1:21:32David Imel?

  I said messages.

• 1:21:33Speaker 03

  Andrew, is that correct?

• 1:21:34David Imel?

  Spotify.

• 1:21:36Speaker 03

  Spotify?

• 1:21:37Andrew Manganelli?

  It's a very common one in one of my folders. I would give him that.

• 1:21:41David Imel?

  Google Maps?

• 1:21:42Andrew Manganelli?

  Correct.

• 1:21:42Speaker 03

  Correct.

• 1:21:43David Imel?

  And I put some sort of frisbee app.

• 1:21:45Andrew Manganelli?

  There is a U disk is right here.

• 1:21:47Speaker 03

  Ayo. Nice, four for four.

• 1:21:50Andrew Manganelli?

  Alright.

• 1:21:51Speaker 03

  You shot yourself in the foot by having folders on that. That's your fault.

• 1:21:54Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm, it's very excited for the, I don't know if this is like an Android versus iPhone thing or like.

• 1:22:00Speaker 03

  I think just having folders.

• 1:22:01David Imel?

  I never did that when I was on Android.

• 1:22:03Andrew Manganelli?

  I think you guys telling me the better thing is to go into your app drawer and search for it every time.

• 1:22:08David Imel?

  No, you just swipe down.

• 1:22:09Speaker 03

  Especially you, because you like a clean.

• 1:22:11Andrew Manganelli?

  Swipe down and search. It's the same. I guess in Android you go into your app drawer.

• 1:22:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, you just swipe up.

• 1:22:15Andrew Manganelli?

  But it's the same thing.

• 1:22:17Speaker 03

  But you like a clean first homepage. Like you don't like anything on it. So it makes sense to me that you would just search for everything. Like why even?

• 1:22:23Andrew Manganelli?

  Why would I search when I can just, tell me an app to press right now?

• 1:22:27David Imel?

  You can do that looking.

• 1:22:28Speaker 03

  Instagram.

• 1:22:31Andrew Manganelli?

  That's depressing. It's not depressing. It's just like, these are the things that like, I'm so used to.

• 1:22:35Speaker 03

  Okay, Slack.

• 1:22:38David Imel?

  Damn.

• 1:22:38Speaker 03

  Sheesh.

• 1:22:39David Imel?

  What about something you don't use?

• 1:22:40Andrew Manganelli?

  Basically, the folders, my most common ones are usually on the bottom.

• 1:22:43David Imel?

  Oh.

• 1:22:44Andrew Manganelli?

  So I can just press them again. It almost turns into the second dock and then like, I don't know. I guess another common one is my email or like Instagram or YouTube.

• 1:22:53Speaker 03

  Going back to our conversation from last week though, that just means that you have this stored in RAM at all times.

• 1:22:59Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm telling you.

• 1:23:00Speaker 03

  Your physical motions.

• 1:23:01Andrew Manganelli?

  I have to take screenshots of what my folders are because when I get rid of one that maybe I don't use as much and then all of them shift, then I'm just like, oh no. And I try and click things and it's just wrong all the time.

• 1:23:13Speaker 03

  See, muscle memory is unreliable. You should just use the built in search function.

• 1:23:18Andrew Manganelli?

  I think that's the same.

• 1:23:19Speaker 03

  Anyway, what did you say for David?

• 1:23:21David Imel?

  Yeah, what did you say for me?

• 1:23:22Andrew Manganelli?

  I said, phone?

• 1:23:24David Imel?

  Uh, no. I sw- I, no.

• 1:23:27Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:23:27David Imel?

  I don't use my phone.

• 1:23:28Andrew Manganelli?

  Messages?

• 1:23:29David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:30Andrew Manganelli?

  I said, camera?

• 1:23:31David Imel?

  No.

• 1:23:32Andrew Manganelli?

  I said Reddit?

• 1:23:33David Imel?

  No.

• 1:23:34Andrew Manganelli?

  And Instagram?

• 1:23:35David Imel?

  No.

• 1:23:35Speaker 03

  What is on your dock?

• 1:23:36Andrew Manganelli?

  There's only four in the iPhone dock, by the way. I don't know that.

• 1:23:39David Imel?

  Yeah, so I have Pocket Casts.

• 1:23:42Speaker 03

  Nice.

• 1:23:42David Imel?

  Far left because it's my most used app. Um, Messages?

• 1:23:48Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay.

• 1:23:48David Imel?

  Okay. Then I have, uh, Arc Mobile, which is my browser. You didn't put a browser on there.

• 1:23:56Andrew Manganelli?

  I have my browser.

• 1:23:57David Imel?

  In the folder.

• 1:23:58Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, oh, yeah. I don't know.

• 1:24:02Andrew Manganelli?

  I should have put Safari.

• 1:24:03David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:04Andrew Manganelli?

  But you use Arc.

• 1:24:04David Imel?

  And then I have Spotify.

• 1:24:06Andrew Manganelli?

  And Spotify?

• 1:24:07David Imel?

  Which I've been trying to use YouTube Music more recently, actually.

• 1:24:12Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, really?

• 1:24:13David Imel?

  But the UI is horrible.

• 1:24:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's not.

• 1:24:14David Imel?

  It's like so bad.

• 1:24:16Andrew Manganelli?

  I can tell you use a lot of audio on your phone because you have two audio things.

• 1:24:19David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:20Andrew Manganelli?

  In the bottom.

• 1:24:20David Imel?

  Well, I listen to podcasts most of the day.

• 1:24:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:24:23Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:24David Imel?

  Yeah, so.

• 1:24:25Speaker 03

  Dang.

• 1:24:25David Imel?

  Cool.

• 1:24:26Speaker 03

  All right.

• 1:24:26David Imel?

  Okay.

• 1:24:27Speaker 03

  Nice.

• 1:24:27Andrew Manganelli?

  Good question. I want to see the comments.

• 1:24:30Speaker 03

  We learned something new about you, Andrew.

• 1:24:32David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:32Speaker 03

  Another thing we have to fix.

• 1:24:33Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm a machine. Don't fix it.

• 1:24:37David Imel?

  Automatic.

• 1:24:37Andrew Manganelli?

  I think searching's sexy.

• 1:24:38David Imel?

  What about Google? Where's Google Tasks? Can you instantly get to that?

• 1:24:40Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, Google Tasks is the only thing I have on a different page.

• 1:24:43David Imel?

  Oh.

• 1:24:43Andrew Manganelli?

  My next page is basically my Google Task List and my calendar.

• 1:24:47Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:24:47Andrew Manganelli?

  Which I also have calendar here, too.

• 1:24:49David Imel?

  Multiple.

• 1:24:50Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, this is like if I want to go month by month. The other one's just like, what's going on?

• 1:24:53Speaker 03

  What's happening right now?

• 1:24:55David Imel?

  Okay, cool. Well, that's been it.

• 1:24:58Speaker 03

  Let us know in the comments how wrong Andrew is.

• 1:25:00David Imel?

  Yeah, let us know in the comments how you feel about that. We're very close to the Pixel event. We have one more episode. And then the next episode, we actually record on the day of the Pixel event.

• 1:25:10Andrew Manganelli?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:25:11David Imel?

  In two weeks, when Marquez is finally back.

• 1:25:12Speaker 03

  Can't wait.

• 1:25:13David Imel?

  Make sure you subscribe because the more people that subscribe, the faster Marquez will come back. If you don't subscribe and we don't grow to a million followers, by the time he comes back, he will get stuck in China.

• 1:25:24Andrew Manganelli?

  He's gonna get very sad if we don't have a million. So that would honestly be the craziest thing.

• 1:25:28David Imel?

  Cry, bro. It's not a good sight.

• 1:25:31Andrew Manganelli?

  Could you imagine if Marquez just came back from China after only missing two episodes and we doubled in subscriber wise?

• 1:25:38David Imel?

  Make it happen.

• 1:25:39Speaker 03

  Do it.

• 1:25:40Andrew Manganelli?

  Make it happen. We'll collab with Mr. Beast or something.

• 1:25:42David Imel?

  Yeah, do a collab YouTube post with Mr. Beast. Anyway, that's been it. Catch you guys later. See you in the next one. Peace.

• 1:25:50Andrew Manganelli?

  Wait, from us produced by Adam Alena and Ellis Rovin. We're partnered with Vox Media Podcast Network and our track music is created by me and so.

• 1:25:54David Imel?

  Bingo. Let's go.

• 1:26:11David Imel?

  Oh, and you can break it down into categories, too.

• 1:26:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's a lot of data there.

• 1:26:14David Imel?

  There's a lot of data. There's a lot of smarts and also a lot of data.

• 1:26:17Speaker 01

  I mean, that's a lot of smarts, but also a lot of data.

• 1:26:19David Imel?

  Exactly, Marquez. Thanks.

• 1:26:21Speaker 01

  Wow, it's like he's here.

• 1:26:21David Imel?

  Thanks for chiming in.

• 1:26:23Speaker 04

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