Pod Insights Aspire with Emma Grede Aspire with Jessica Alba: Why It’s Time to Break Up with Perfection About this episode If you've ever felt underestimated, struggled with mom-guilt, or wondered if it's possible to truly balance ambition and personal peace, this is your episode. We dive into the emotional costs of overachievement, building a business as a mother of three, the moments of doubt when everyone underestimated her, and the heartbreaks that shaped her perspective on success and leadership. This isn't just a story of entrepreneurship and resilience; it's also about vulnerability, intuition, and learning to let go of perfection. Jessica Alba gets real about the success, the global fame, and her journey building the mega-successful brand, The Honest Company. In this deeply personal and honest conversation, Jessica opens up about her transition away from the company she poured her heart into, revealing what it felt like to hand over her "baby" to others. Jessica shares the inside story of what really drove her to start The Honest Company—her health struggles as a child, an allergic reaction that terrified her as a new mom, and her fierce determination to protect families everywhere from hidden toxins. Jessica Alba is proof that the strength to evolve comes from being true to who you really are, even in the toughest moments.
Transcript 16,688 words · 9 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:09 Emma Grede? Today's guest on the Aspire Podcast is Jessica Alba. Jessica is a globally recognised actress, yes, but she's also the founder of The Honest Company, a business she built from the ground up into a mission-driven, publicly-traded powerhouse that redefined what conscious consumer goods could look like. But over a decade, Honest wasn't just her company, it was her baby, her battleground and her calling. Now she's in a season of transition, personally and professionally. She's stepped away from the company she created, she's exploring new ways of working, and she's rethinking what success, leadership and balance mean to her. In our conversation, Jessica opens up about the emotional cost of overachievement, the fragility behind the facade of strength, and what it means to lead with both conviction
0:54 Emma Grede? and vulnerability. We talk about what drove her to start The Honest Company, how she handled being underestimated in boardrooms, the heartbreaks that shaped her and the ongoing challenge of navigating public scrutiny while staying true to her values. This is a conversation about ambition, identity, reinvention and what happens when you finally give yourself permission to let go.
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1:56 Emma Grede? Jessica, I'm so happy to have you here.
1:58 Speaker 02 Thank you.
1:59 Emma Grede? It's very, very exciting.
2:01 Speaker 02 I'm happy to be here too. I feel like we never talk like in a professional manner.
2:06 Emma Grede? Do you know what we never do?
2:07 Speaker 02 No, we never do. It's usually in passing.
2:10 Emma Grede? It's always in passing. It's at an event or at something for our mutual friends, Kelly and Jamie, where it's not a professional situation, I would say. But you are in a bit of a professional and personal transition moment right now. So I'm glad that I got you when I did. And I wanted to ask you, I mean, you announced your departure from the company that you built from scratch, The Honest Company. And I really wanted to ask you, what made you even decide to leave?
2:36 Speaker 02 Well, I feel like I launched it now, it's probably around 13 years ago. And it really was kind of like another kid.
2:45 Emma Grede? Yeah.
2:46 Speaker 02 Except this one grew quickly. And I just feel like it was at the stage where it was ready to kind of evolve and go off to college. You know, I felt like I nurtured and I raised it and I put all I could into it. But ultimately, I didn't call it the Jessica Alba Company.
3:03 Emma Grede? No, for a reason.
3:04 Speaker 02 For a reason. And I wanted it to really transcend anything that frankly, I, any ideas I had, I knew there's a, there's a limitation to me and my vision for it. And so I was like, a company, or this company in particular, really, my biggest vision was that if it's in someone else's hands, like imagine what they could do with it.
3:27 Emma Grede? And you made it.
3:27 Speaker 02 Yeah, and so I really built something that was meant to really be handed off to someone else and really more of a consciousness of like-minded people that believe in building businesses with purpose that can do good while also being profitable and making impact on business. I really didn't want to build a nonprofit. I wanted it to be a very productive for-profit business.
3:54 Emma Grede? And, and that's exactly what you did. Because I think if you go back 13 years ago, we weren't using those terms in the same way that we throw them about now.
4:02 Speaker 02 Social entrepreneurship really was more of a nonprofit terminology.
4:07 Emma Grede? Yeah.
4:07 Speaker 02 And then there was just entrepreneurship. And a lot of the entrepreneurs. Especially when I was coming up, there was a lot of tech-based, digital-first, D to C businesses, venture-backed. And so I actually built the business as a venture-backed D to C business. And over the last 12 years, it really evolved into being more of in the pocket of an innovative CPG company.
4:34 Emma Grede? Yeah.
4:34 Speaker 02 You know?
4:35 Emma Grede? And that wasn't your original intention, or was that always the idea?
4:38 Speaker 02 It was always the idea, but how to get there, I think my path was more progressive, more of the times. I mean, I was probably one of the first people to build a brand leveraging social media.
4:49 Emma Grede? Oh, a hundred percent. I mean, you were, no one was doing it. And I feel like a lot of the practices and the ways that we bring product to market now, you really pioneered, you were very, very early. And even when we talk about-
5:00 Speaker 02 Influencer marketing.
5:02 Emma Grede? Yeah, it was, you were early, early on in that. And even when you talk about like a purpose-driven business, again, that wasn't something that we spoke about 13 years ago.
5:11 Speaker 02 I was one of the OGs for sure.
5:13 Emma Grede? Yeah.
5:14 Speaker 02 And I looked at brands like Whole Foods and I looked at brands like Seventh Generation. And those were really around, you know, protecting the environment and leveraging or scaling a co-op, which is what Whole Foods did. And I was, I looked at them as like, okay, these are very innovative concepts that disrupted these spaces of grocery and disrupted the spaces of like home detergents. And so I was like, what is that next thing that can be done? And it's really like having a business that's really built around human health and putting human health first and thinking of, you know, the impact that it could have also on the planet.
5:53 Emma Grede? Yeah. No, and I feel like you did that. I mean, honestly, I, I think about you. I mean, of course, we've done a lot of research and I've been thinking about you for the last few weeks, but- I feel like I've watched you from afar for so many years.
6:07 Speaker 02 Oh, really?
6:07 Emma Grede? Have to take my hat off to you. Yeah, of course, because it's like I knew you from the movies and you've been so unbelievably successful, hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars at the box office. You built a company out of an idea that you had, you took it public, you have the most beautiful family. And so I feel like I have to take my hat off to you as a female entrepreneur, because you really have done the most. And I feel like you did it in a time when we weren't all talking about it. You were a very early kind of trailblazer and you kind of had to forge that path. And I wonder now, as you step I mean, you're not totally outside the business because you're on the board, right?
6:43 Speaker 02 I'm on the board, yeah.
6:44 Emma Grede? Yeah, but it's a different, you're in a very, very different place. You're not like day in, day out in that business. How do you feel about the whole thing?
6:52 Speaker 02 You know, it's, it's like a bittersweet. It's hard because I really love it. And you know, you have all these ideas of how you thought it was gonna go. And even when I what people probably don't know is first three and a half years, I just hit a lot of dead ends. No one wanted to, no one thought this business could even exist.
7:13 Emma Grede? Please can we talk about those? I feel like no one talks, no one talks about failure, no one talks about dead ends, no one talks about how flipping hard it is.
7:22 Speaker 02 It was, it was, I mean, I'd never built a business plan. I didn't go to business school. I just knew conceptually that this this needed to exist. People needed to know that they could make better choices. And I believe that people didn't need to be exposed to unnecessary chemicals that could affect their health in a, in a bad way.
7:44 Emma Grede? And, and so ta- talk to me about that, that journey. So you're an actress. I'm assuming you were a very nice point in your career at that time.
7:51 Speaker 02 Probably the peak.
7:52 Emma Grede? The peak. So you decided at the peak of your career, I'm going to try something else and I'm going to become an entrepreneur. Or you were like, I just want to start some, something new.
8:01 Speaker 02 At the peak of my career, I had a baby. My baby, yes, the perspective or my priorities, like my whole life revolved around. There's, there's an innate, I think narcissism to existence prior to having to take care of something. Yeah. For some people, it's animals, you know, it's a loved one. And for me, it was when I became a mom. Yeah. And so that's when my whole perspective and priorities shifted. And so my career was everything to me. And then I was pregnant with my first daughter and I had an allergic reaction to a detergent. That was really marketed for um babies.
8:44 Speaker 02 And when I had this allergic reaction, I freaked out and I was like. I, I recalled my childhood, which also people might not know, I was very sick as a kid. You were? I spent a lot of time in hospitals. I had chronic asthma and allergies to the point where like every cold turned into one to two week hospital stay. What a nightmare. And I had many surgeries, like my appendix, I had a weird kidney surgery or, or issues with my kidneys. I had my tonsils taken out. I had cysts on, on my throat. So I had like many issues, all, and this is all up until age 11. Right. And so it was like chronic health issues. And I had this allergic reaction and I, and I was like, oh my God, what if my baby?
9:30 Speaker 02 Had an allergic reaction and she couldn't tell me, what if her throat closes before my eyes? Like, how could I help her? Because she can't talk. And I was like, we have, I, I can't believe that there's something that I could have been allergic to. And I'm an adult. So I learned about all of these untested and potentially harmful chemicals that are in everything. Everything. Everything from our personal care, so think of your deodorants, your perfumes, air fresheners, or the worst candles, scented candles, like. All of these things, all the way through to the off gassing of furniture and items inside the house is often much more toxic. Than even the pollution that's outside.
10:14 Speaker 02 And people just don't even know. And then when you think of the detergents and all this stuff, and so I was like, what do I even buy? Freaking out. And I was freaking out. And so I would buy stuff from Europe because they have higher standards and. Yes, we do. Yeah, and I would buy stuff from Australia because they also have higher standards. And I looked at all this data around. You know, even just how many chemicals are banned in personal care alone. And in Europe, it was eleven hundred. Yeah. And here it was like ten or eleven. Wild, isn't it? Even though they know all of these things could affect human health in a bad way. Enough people have to be proven to die from it or get so fatally ill before they'll even test a chemical.
10:56 Speaker 02 And what did you think? Like, were you of the mindset like, I'm gonna go out and change? I was like, we can't be poisoned. Like, how can people be poisoned? So I went and I lobbied on Capitol Hill for chemical reform. And then I was like, they were like, are you a Democrat or a Republican? I was like, I'm a human being. Yeah, what does it matter? I was like, this has nothing to do with politics. I don't want my babies to die, okay? I don't want anybody's. I don't want anyone to be sick. Mm hmm. And then when you hear about, and when I did research on the effect these chemicals can have on your health. They're endocrine disruptors. So what does that mean? It means that they mutate your genes over time and could lead to a lot of cancers that have to do with your hormones. Yeah.
11:36 Speaker 02 And so if you look at the rise of all these cancers that are, it's unprecedented. And if you look at kind of like the industrialization of these chemicals, so they used to be used in warfare. Then they put them in consumer products. And then you look at what's happened to human health and you just look at some of these. You just see some of these graphs and it's really enlightening. And so I was like. Doesn't take a genius to figure it out. It does not take a genius. And, and so I was like, where is all of this research? And it's all in these kind of academic studies in universities and in these research hospitals. And it's so hard to, to get this information. So there was this website called Healthy Child, Healthy World dot org.
12:19 Speaker 02 I hunted down this guy who authored this book and led this organization. And he was the first person, my first employee official, that I had advised me to figure out a solution. How old are you at this point? I was twenty eight. So still pretty young. I was twenty eight. And no experience in business. Twenty seven. Right. So I was probably twenty seven or twenty eight. Twenty seven or twenty eight. And did you have any experience of business at all then? I basically put together like. It was kind of like a Pinterest board, but I R L. It was like, like.
12:53 Emma Grede? A collage.
12:54 Speaker 02 A scrapbook of here's literally every room in the home that needs to be touched that could have these products that could potentially be harmful. And it was like every room. And so that was probably, now that I think about it, it was probably a blueprint or like the first step of of my book. I I wrote a book called The Honest Life.
13:12 Emma Grede? Yeah.
13:13 Speaker 02 That was a way to kind of make make it also not scary for people to make better decisions. And if you didn't have money, you could use vinegar and baking soda, frankly, and you could be good. And so there's ways where you don't doesn't have to break the bank. And because I was also raised with no money and my parents really living paycheck to paycheck. I felt like health shouldn't only be and and peace of mind and safety shouldn't just be for the zero point one percent. You know, like, I know that I got to my this place in my life where I had been successful. I always lived below my means. I saved my money and I was fortunate enough to be in the situation I was in, but most people aren't.
13:58 Speaker 02 And so I was like, there needs it needs to be easier for people. So I gave a very lo fi way to try and put together a home.
14:08 Emma Grede? But the book didn't precede the brand, right?
14:10 Speaker 02 The book was a year after, but I wrote it during the the formation of the brand.
14:15 Emma Grede? So what was like the first thing that you did? Like when you so you start doing all this research, you put this book together, you hire the guy, the consultant, and then what?
14:23 Speaker 02 And then I hired a woman to put my business plan together and.
14:28 Emma Grede? Were you paying for these people out of your own pocket?
14:30 Speaker 02 Yeah. So I also wasn't acting any really.
14:33 Emma Grede? Because you just had a baby.
14:35 Speaker 02 I just had a baby, but then also I just was focused on, I mean, I when you're twenty seven and you just have a baby, you drop the weight pretty fast and you're fine. You know, like, it's it's different. You're good. You're good to go. And I was very.
14:47 Emma Grede? Number one is not number three.
14:48 Speaker 02 No. Also, I felt like it gave me this fuel to even I I became more ambitious.
14:54 Emma Grede? Yeah.
14:55 Speaker 02 In a weird way, after I had my kids, I was like, now I have a reason. Before it was like, did the check clear? Like, I was happy that like I was on that set and I got that job. Now it's about the quality and it's about the quality of the work. And is this something I can be proud of?
15:12 Emma Grede? Well, and also like, is this time away from my child worth it?
15:16 Speaker 02 Worth it.
15:16 Emma Grede? Because you're like, if it ain't, then what am I doing?
15:18 Speaker 02 Yeah, I'm out. And so my focus was really for about three and a half years, really not on the thing that would frankly make me more successful. And I turned down a lot of endorsements and things that also would have been much easier for me to do. To do the thing that I felt like, I mean, I've always been pretty spiritual, but I really felt like it was my purpose.
15:41 Emma Grede? Did you feel like it was a calling?
15:43 Speaker 02 I did.
15:43 Emma Grede? Yeah.
15:43 Speaker 02 Yeah. When I was a kid and I was so desperate to figure out a way to have a different life than the one that I was raised in, I remember like a lot of prayers of like, God, if you give me an opportunity to be successful, I will do good for you. I will do good on the, on the planet for people. And I've always wanted to help mothers. I always wanted to help children. That was always, since I was little, what I wanted to do. And so building a brand that really is to safeguard human health, that was launched and focused, I mean, the strategy, it made sense to focus on moms and children. Cause moms really were running seventy percent, over seventy percent of the household income
16:29 Speaker 02 and making those choices and safeguarding their kids.
16:32 Emma Grede? So when did you realize that this problem that you had could actually be a solution to a much bigger business issue?
16:39 Speaker 02 I just was, I knew how hard it was for me to even shop around this issue. And to try and find better solutions. And there really wasn't a brand you can lean on. I mean, all these brands that even say, oh, they're, they're more natural, they still used synthetic fragrance. And so you're like, you just ruined it with a synthetic fragrance. Why? Or perfume or whatever, fragrance. And so it was really hard to find things that didn't have that in it. I mean, it's nearly impossible. Or you would find a totally traditionally formulated product that didn't have fragrance. But there was no like plant-based formula and no synthetic fragrance. That combination didn't exist. And
17:23 Speaker 02 At a good price point and beautifully designed because why does it need to look like a billboard for a weird CPG brand?
17:32 Emma Grede? And these were really the ten or ultimately became the tenants of your brand, right? Beautiful packaging, absolutely affordable, no sacrifices on what we're trying to.
17:41 Speaker 02 On the effect, yeah, efficacious products. That was the biggest thing. I was like, I wanted to be as efficacious as a traditional product or more. Because we're using new and leveraging different technologies that hadn't been leveraged yet. And I really looked at a lot of the food categories as inspiration because it's quite innovative.
18:00 Emma Grede? Yeah.
18:00 Speaker 02 When it comes to CPG.
18:02 Emma Grede? So what do you, Jessica, the actress do, once you've got somebody to write your business plan? And you've brought on a consultant, do you remember?
18:09 Speaker 02 She didn't write the business plan that I asked her to write.
18:12 Emma Grede? So you started learning straight away about staffing then?
18:16 Speaker 02 And then I, and then I went to an investor that wanted to take like sixty percent of the business and infuse basically no capital.
18:26 Emma Grede? Oh, great investor, love.
18:28 Speaker 02 And then I was like, yeah, no. And I went down like a two year journey with him and with her. And so then, and I spent so.
18:39 Emma Grede? So much of your own money.
18:40 Speaker 02 So much of my own money, which, you know, what people don't realize is between like agents and managers and taxes, we only take home like around thirty percent of what we make. So I had to think about how much I had to make just to blow it on this idea.
18:58 Emma Grede? Yeah, and how much you had to work to get there. I mean, that's like crazy.
19:02 Speaker 02 Three and a half years of that. And I had now had like a baby.
19:05 Emma Grede? And also I imagine because at the time you were who you were, there was no shortage of people that were like, hey, like I see this opportunity maybe more clearly, let me come and help you. All of a sudden, everybody's an expert.
19:16 Speaker 02 Oh, no, no. People were like, you're nuts. This will never happen.
19:20 Emma Grede? Did they really?
19:20 Speaker 02 Especially in Hollywood.
19:22 Emma Grede? Really?
19:23 Speaker 02 Yeah.
19:23 Emma Grede? How did that make you feel?
19:24 Speaker 02 Terrible. And it confirmed, I already felt like I wasn't shit. And I had imposter syndrome as an actress because no one looked like me. And every time I was like, do I even deserve to be here? And a lot of my choices, even though I know I'm an artist, were financially driven. And so I just felt. You mean your choices in like the projects that you took? A lot of them. I need the money. I need the money. Cause I was like being. Good for you. Struggling was just not an option. Yeah. I don't, I don't, I don't have a safety net. I am my own safety net. And so early in my career,
20:05 Speaker 02 it was like Hollywood already, I didn't feel like had opened arms for me. It was sort of, it was really the fans. It was like, they saw me, they're like, oh yeah, this is like a homegirl that I know. Like I see her, I like her. And so I had more of that relationship with the fans and like that consumer more than, than I would say the who was in charge. And then when I was, had this idea and I was like, and it's gonna be a modern this and it's gonna be like that. And here are the pillars and it's gonna be transparent and we're gonna call it honest and all of, and, and it took a while to even get to the word honest. It's a fantastic name, by the way. Thank you. So good. Thank you. Yeah. No, none of my, none of my reps really believed it could happen.
20:48 Speaker 02 And some of them were actually quite patronizing and awful to me. Really? And so. Thinking it was like a bad use of your time. And also just like how, like, please. Come on, girl. I was like, bitch, please. Yeah. Kind of attitude. Go back. Yeah. Like you're gonna create a company? Okay. You know, really, really patronizing. Did it fuel you, do you think? Was any of it, or did it just push you further into? Oh yeah. So then I was like, oh, I'm gonna show them. I'm gonna show these MFs. I'm gonna show them. They have no idea who they're messing with. So then it was like a fuel to the fire. And mind you, like, it's sort of like you walk the walk or like you act like you are the thing before you're the thing. So I was like, I, I manifested it by just like, I knew I was gonna be successful.
21:32 Speaker 02 Even though I, I was like inside, I was like, it's really gonna work. It just felt like it just needed to exist. There was like this energy, like when you talk about like purpose, like it just needed to exist. Like people, humanity needs this company, this consciousness, that companies like this needed to exist.
21:50 Emma Grede? But I think that-
21:50 Speaker 02 And I'm a capitalist. Like, I believe in business and I believe in people being able to build things from scratch. And I love that I live in this country where I can be that. Like, you can come from anywhere, have an idea, you can create a business, and you can launch it. You know, that's amazing. It's not like that in other countries.
22:10 Emma Grede? No.
22:10 Speaker 02 It is like that here. And so I was like, I am the American dream. Like, why not? Just because I don't see a lot of people like me, like, who cares? And I'll show them, because maybe if I'm this, then maybe other little boys and girls will be like, yeah, that can be me one day, you know? So I did it in Hollywood. And then I was like, okay, well, I already did it once, so why not do it again? I already noticed, like, when people are betting against me. Took three and a half years. I pitched this idea to this other guy that I, that I brought on as a co-founder. He turned me down. He created LegalZoom. He created Shoe Dazzle. So he was like, trying to pitch me on Shoe Dazzle. And I was-
22:47 Emma Grede? And you're like, I've got a better idea.
22:49 Speaker 02 And I was pitching him on, on The Honest Company. And then he went and got Kim to be the face of Shoe Dazzle and launched that. It was very successful. And then I went back to him, maybe a year, almost eighteen months later, I pitched him again. But at that point, he had a kid. And he was like, my wife just threw out everything in our house. And he was like, maybe you're on to something.
23:08 Emma Grede? And he got it.
23:09 Speaker 02 And I was like, I'm on to something.
23:10 Emma Grede? Talk to me about that, though, knowing that you needed a partner. Because I feel like so many founders, in the beginning, you don't know what you don't know. And I feel like it's so smart to be willing to say, you know what, I'm gonna give up a piece of this thing, because it's better to have, I don't know, fifty percent of something than zero percent of nothing.
23:28 Speaker 02 Yeah.
23:28 Emma Grede? What was that thought process like to you? And how did you go and find this partner?
23:33 Speaker 02 Well, he was, I think Cash met him at like a poker game at his friend's house.
23:38 Emma Grede? And you were actively looking for a business partner at that point?
23:41 Speaker 02 Actively looking for a business partner.
23:42 Emma Grede? Because, because in the three years, what had happened?
23:44 Speaker 02 Well, I know that I'm also like, I'm not putting together a spreadsheet. Like, I'm not-
23:49 Emma Grede? You knew your limitations.
23:50 Speaker 02 I know my limitations. Like, I didn't go to business school. Like, that's not, I have, I'm a visionary. I have an idea. I have a concept. I'm the creative, which, by the way, that's very difficult to find someone with a good idea. And so.
24:06 Emma Grede? And also someone with the drive to make it happen, right? Because there's a lot of people with a lot of good ideas, but they don't all make it happen and take it off of a piece of paper.
24:14 Speaker 02 And then also having the humility to know what you're good at and what you're not.
24:17 Emma Grede? Mm hmm.
24:18 Speaker 02 And then also being able to surround yourself with people that can highlight and and lift up your best parts. And then also be able to fill in what you're not good at, you know, and that you can become a whole.
24:33 Emma Grede? And you felt like you got this with that guy.
24:35 Speaker 02 I did because I knew I wanted to direct a consumer business. Because if I would have gone with a retailer in order to get scale, it's hard to, so, you know, we were doing seventeen products across three different product categories. And so even just those SKUs, you have to make a, there's a limited amount of SKUs that you even make that they'll even do a run of. So say it's two thousand or ten thousand, right? So then where are you warehousing it? Who's going to distribute it? What shelf is it gonna be on? And if you go with a retailer, they're gonna say, we only want this scent, this one thing, we'll see if it works.
25:15 Speaker 02 And then maybe we'll open up to the other stuff. And I'm like, no, no, this concept is a lifestyle. This concept is bigger. If I'm just doing a laundry detergent or if I'm just doing one shampoo, that's not gonna solve for the issue here. Because it's multiple assaults to your immune system from these chemicals that are in several different products.
25:37 Emma Grede? So you were trying to sell from the outset, like a lifestyle, like this is an alternative?
25:41 Speaker 02 All these different touchpoints of your life where you can be exposed to these chemicals
25:46 Emma Grede? Mm hmm.
25:46 Speaker 02 that you don't need to be exposed to. And so help, here's your sort of baseline needs met.
25:52 Emma Grede? And did this partner, was he a good partner for you? Was this someone that you were like, this is what I need at this time?
25:58 Speaker 02 He was great. I think I was a little disillusioned because then he brought in someone else to be more of the operations president person. And so in total, it was the four of us. And I thought all of us were in it for the long game. I thought all of us were building some, a legacy brand that our kids could be proud of. I didn't realize that two of them were much more short term thinkers and much more, let's raise as much capital with the least amount of dilution as humanly possible and take money off the table as you go. And that was more of the business model than actually building the business.
26:42 Emma Grede? And do you think that that was just something that you didn't understand or it wasn't transparent?
26:47 Speaker 02 It wasn't transparent and I didn't understand it. I didn't understand that people could have different
26:54 Emma Grede? Ideas.
26:54 Speaker 02 Ideas about or strategies on how they're going to launch a company. Like some people are just two and a half years in and out, three max, and then on to the next and on to the next. And that's kind of what they do. And that wasn't very clear to me.
27:10 Emma Grede? I think it's a great lesson though. And one of the things that whenever I invest in a new project or I start a new thing, I'm always very transparent about what it is that I'm trying to do. And I'm also trying to understand because again, not every founder has the same idea. Everybody wants to build something and take it public. Some people are like, I just want to like pay my mom's mortgage and have like a really nice, comfortable life. And I'm like, that's fine too. But aligning those things is easier said than done. And you don't know what you don't know. And I think especially when you get into a business like Honest, where it's very purpose driven, you imagine that you're all in it for the same good, right? It's all like, we're trying to solve something here. We're trying to do something better for our kids and for humanity and other different people have different agendas.
27:53 Speaker 02 Yeah. And that wasn't
27:54 Emma Grede? It's hard to get there.
27:55 Speaker 02 And it wasn't clear until sort of the end of that journey and really knowing that I needed to get a new management team in place for the next phase of the company, which was really to go from a straight up direct to consumer business to a more CPG with traditional
28:16 Emma Grede? Traditional wholesale.
28:17 Speaker 02 Yeah. And traditional capabilities as far as like sourcing, operational capabilities. So we really needed our like raw material sourcing. We needed our chemists, having a lab in house and being able to have the supply chain and the operations on lock. Is, I would say, step one, two and three of importance. Then it allows you to scale and deliver on a consistent basis, the promise of the brand.
28:45 Emma Grede? Yeah.
28:46 Speaker 02 Without that, it's very difficult.
28:47 Emma Grede? It must be impossible.
28:48 Speaker 02 Yeah.
28:48 Emma Grede? When you, so when you're in this situation where they're going out, they're raising a lot of money, like, how were you able to keep a grip with what you were doing or were you even able to?
28:59 Speaker 02 Hmm, there was a lot of sleepless nights. A lot of gripping and I think I didn't sleep for, or seven days a week. I didn't sleep for a long time, maybe ten years.
29:14 Emma Grede? Because I guess coming from where you came from, that hits in a different place.
29:18 Speaker 02 Hits in a different place.
29:20 Emma Grede? You have a different relationship with money.
29:21 Speaker 02 I have a different relationship with money and I have a different relationship with success. I don't have safety nets and I had the vision of what this could be and it's so pure. And so excellence is my like bottom of, I start at excellence and then it just goes from there. And so I have.
29:42 Emma Grede? Feel like corners were being cut?
29:43 Speaker 02 I believe that not everyone operates with excellence.
29:47 Emma Grede? Yeah.
29:47 Speaker 02 I have the same level of attention to detail that I do. Everything matters to me. Every detail is important and it's just not that way with a lot of people. And I would look at it as like, oh, you want to fight today. Like I, every day I was like, oh, we're fighting, okay.
30:07 Emma Grede? I'm ready for this.
30:08 Speaker 02 And then I had to learn over the years that it didn't mean that they wanted to fight me or they were necessarily trying to challenge me. They just aren't even there.
30:18 Emma Grede? Yeah, they operate from a different base level.
30:21 Speaker 02 Totally different base level.
30:22 Emma Grede? Yeah.
30:22 Speaker 02 And I felt like, oh, I'm not smart because I didn't go to business school. I realized how smart I am.
30:28 Emma Grede? Yeah, nothing to do with it.
30:34 Speaker 03 Do you ever wish you could ask nosey questions about people's money?
30:37 Speaker 02 I have $729.71 in my bank account. We bought a $1.3 million house on a $350,000 income.
30:46 Speaker 03 On the podcast What We Spend, we ask those questions. It's a show about money and all the feelings that come with spending it.
30:53 Speaker 04 I want to be the kind of person who can just take care of the people in my life.
30:58 Speaker 03 Listen to What We Spend, an Odyssey original, available now wherever you get your podcasts.
31:10 Emma Grede? So as you start on this, I guess, the journey of having these partners and changing the shape of the business, where did your role go? Like, how did you fit into that new dynamic of where the management was at?
31:25 Speaker 02 I think I allowed the world to believe that my business partner came to me and hired me to be the face of the brand, similar to how he did with Kim, or similar to how he did with Robert Shapiro, because he did Legal Zoom with Robert Shapiro. And I was like, no, I was the one that came up with the idea, and I tapped him to join me. It took me like three years to get there, though, because he had a fancy education. He had a law degree. Like, I just felt, again, that imposter syndrome. And it wasn't until a few circumstances where shit hit the fan and no one was looking at anybody but me.
32:05 Emma Grede? Yeah, because your name's on the door.
32:07 Speaker 02 My name's on the door. I'm the face. And if these people don't have their ish together, no one's going to suffer but me. Because no one knows them.
32:17 Emma Grede? No one knows them.
32:18 Speaker 02 No one cares. So I was like, okay. So then I stepped into my power in a different way. And I was like, okay, now that I realize I'm the only one who's... Me and this business, right? It's it was like we're one.
32:30 Emma Grede? Yes.
32:31 Speaker 02 And I saw the wholeness of of and the purity of that relationship. Then it was just like, who are the players that are gonna help take this to the next stage that it needs to be? And we're just putting the business first. And I don't care about ego and I don't care about any of this other foolishness, including my own, because my own ego was telling me I wasn't good enough.
32:49 Emma Grede? Yeah.
32:50 Speaker 02 And so I had to throw that aside.
32:52 Emma Grede? This is an amazing lesson, I think specifically for female founders, because there is this idea that somebody always knows better than you, that maybe you don't have, you know, like you said, I'm not so good at Excel, you're like, yeah, but it's like, you know what you do know.
33:05 Speaker 02 But also, if you put any like logic or common sense of anything in front of me, like I can rip through it.
33:13 Emma Grede? You'll figure it out.
33:14 Speaker 02 Yeah, I figured it out. I process quickly. So it's it's not brain surgery.
33:17 Emma Grede? Well, it's a but it's also a special founder mentality. This was your baby. This was your idea. Nobody can see it and have the vision like you would. But I think it's very interesting that in your position, you would imagine that there is like this man or someone that that would have and could have known better than you.
33:33 Speaker 02 I also really appreciate and love the science. I love these different business models and I loved thinking about these concepts of like, what type of management team can take this vision to this next stage? Do you need a COO? Do you need a CFO, CEO, president? Maybe, maybe not. Do you need a CIO? Do you or a CTO? Is it more important to have a technology person?
34:00 Emma Grede? How did you navigate those decisions?
34:01 Speaker 02 Innovations person, you know, who do you have? And you can only have so many people in the C suite. Then you have your general counsel, which is very important, you know?
34:11 Emma Grede? We all need them.
34:11 Speaker 02 And you need your head of HR who's gonna keep everyone happy. And so I learned as I went and I learned about all these different business models and I asked a lot of questions. So I would like meet Sheryl Sandberg at a business conference and I would just say, talk to me about. Infrastructure, like you know in your mind that something needs to change. Like, how do you go about it? And how do you deal with the board versus the management team? And what if the management team, the business has outgrown the management team? Then what?
34:41 Emma Grede? Which always happens.
34:41 Speaker 02 And so it always happens. And that's like a good problem to have.
34:45 Emma Grede? Yeah, it's a great problem to have.
34:45 Speaker 02 Then who's gonna? Hard to solve because there's a lot of like relationships. There's ego. People are not always in for the best of the business. They are in for the best of themselves. And so to navigate so delicate. And then I'd sit down Diane von Furstenberg and be like, how do you deal with, you know, certain people that aren't necessarily aligned with you? When you're like, no, no, I need this to be like that.
35:08 Emma Grede? Oh, Diane will tell you.
35:09 Speaker 02 No, she did. And she did.
35:10 Emma Grede? She'll tell you.
35:12 Speaker 02 And then I asked Tori Burch. And then I asked Arianna Huffington.
35:15 Emma Grede? But you went around, you found these women and you were like, I'm gonna ask any question.
35:19 Speaker 02 I asked, I would, I would get three questions. I would never take up more than 15 minutes of their time. I would write down the questions that I had for them. And I forced them to mentor me. They didn't want to. Melody Hobson as well. Like, I just was like, I don't have mentors, no one to really, that really looks like me out here in these streets. And so I just have to force them. And then I would also ask guys, you know, because I'm like, what's the difference in how they operate?
35:47 Emma Grede? And there's a difference.
35:48 Speaker 02 Oh, there's a huge difference. They're like, I just told them. And I'm like, oh, yeah, no. Tell them to go to hell, or tell them to do this, or tell them to whatever. If they don't agree with you, if they behave this way, it's unacceptable. And I'm like, yeah, no, it's so different for women. We have to be really strong and capable, but then also really nice and friendly.
36:09 Emma Grede? Well, the expectation is very different for women.
36:10 Speaker 02 And then also, yeah.
36:10 Emma Grede? My question is really, as you start to meet all of those very accomplished women and speak to men, how did you thrash out your own unique leadership style? And did you feel the pressure to be a kind, empathetic female leader?
36:26 Speaker 02 I learned my softness much later in my journey. Because like I said in the beginning, I'm like, you want to fight me? That's why you're not listening to me. Like, we're, this is, this is, let's go. And I always thought it was a very combative. Relationship with people when they wouldn't just when they second guess me all the time and they needed to always have five points of data to back up everything that I said yet if other people said something they would just do it. Hmm. If they were a dude and I was just like, oh my God, that's so annoying. Like, oh my God, I'm so irritated. And so then I would just get I'd spiral and then I would just then I would just fire off like and then that overwhelms people. Yeah.
37:11 Speaker 02 So then I had and then they would only give me 20 minutes in meetings and to make eighty five million decisions. Yes. And then if I had any feedback, they were like, oh, no, it's at stage three. There's no time for you to. Then we won't then we won't make the launch. Well, then why are you bringing me in now? Yes. You should have brought me in six months ago. That was happening. When it was still in like the first phase one. So.
37:35 Speaker 02 Taking you back.
37:37 Speaker 02 So what I learned about MPD, new product development processes, I learned about processes, who gets handed what at what stage I learned of I learned about, I mean, I went to business school by creating and building a business and. Which I think is the only way. I think so. It's really interesting. Because I don't know the other way. So. I think I think you can have a concept of how to build a business and you can learn about them and blah, blah. It's so different when you deal with people. Yes. Because people have emotions and emotions are not logical and business conceptually is logic and and math, but real business in real life is emotion and relationships.
38:23 Speaker 02 And it's all people. And it's all about. It's all people. It's all about people and it's very different and how to navigate that is an art form. And so I don't know if I'm if I've been the most nurturing, warm hug. I think I've been more of like a good time, inspiring, probably because I have big ideas and I can come up with alternative, solid solutions quickly. Like I I love a challenge. Give it to me. I love a debate. Bring it. And I think people aren't used to someone like me being able to be that way. But then on the same side, I also just really like.
39:04 Speaker 02 Getting mushy with people and going deep on emotions and uh learning about their journey and like what makes them tick and like, why are you here? I know you're working in said department, but like, what's your home life like?
39:19 Emma Grede? Yeah.
39:19 Speaker 02 And I wanna talk about it.
39:20 Emma Grede? No, and it's important because you need to be able to get the best out of your people. And having some understanding, but it's just difficult to draw those lines.
39:27 Speaker 02 I also play people for a living and so I have this anthropologist.
39:31 Emma Grede? Right, okay, cuz it's.
39:32 Speaker 02 Sensibility, so I wanna go, I wanna go in, I'm like, so are you a cat person? Oh, you have to, okay. Oh, and you have a roommate and your roommate's allergic to cats? Tell me more, you know, and.
39:44 Emma Grede? I love that.
39:45 Speaker 02 Your parents didn't let you have cats here growing up.
39:47 Emma Grede? I've got you down, I know exactly who this lady in H R is.
39:50 Speaker 02 Yeah, it's great, exactly.
39:52 Emma Grede? That's amazing.
39:53 Speaker 02 And so I think I can, I'm, I'm not, and so I think I never fit the corporate bill. I'm not, I'm not a corporate person. And so it was interesting to kind of be in that corporate, more traditional environment for such a long time.
40:07 Emma Grede? Because you really did build a big corporate company.
40:10 Speaker 02 It's very middle of the road, very corporate, very traditional in many, many ways.
40:17 Emma Grede? How many people were you at the, at the height?
40:19 Speaker 02 Oy, I think it was six hundred.
40:21 Emma Grede? Wow, it's a lot of people.
40:22 Speaker 02 And this is like warehousing and three P Ls and all of, all those things.
40:26 Emma Grede? All of the things.
40:27 Speaker 02 Yeah.
40:28 Emma Grede? But it was a big corporate company and you were really at the helm of that.
40:31 Speaker 02 I think around two hundred is like a, two fifty is like a good amount, but still a lot.
40:37 Emma Grede? Well, everyone always has their comfort levels, you know, I always, I always say I love it at five, yeah, I'm like llama.
40:42 Speaker 02 I like twenty max.
40:44 Emma Grede? Twenty, you know everyone's name.
40:45 Speaker 02 Yep.
40:46 Emma Grede? You know when everybody, you know everyone's cat's name, yeah.
40:49 Speaker 02 Holiday parties are fun.
40:50 Emma Grede? Yeah, yeah, it gets a lot less fun after twenty, I can say that.
40:53 Speaker 02 I agree.
40:54 Emma Grede? Mm hmm.
40:54 Speaker 02 Twenty is my, like, if I could build something tomorrow, I would never have. More than twenty, twenty people really uh at the, at the helm.
41:02 Emma Grede? So what were your, what do you think your biggest learnings were from those early days?
41:06 Speaker 02 No more than twenty people.
41:07 Emma Grede? You're like, okay, no more than twenty people.
41:09 Speaker 02 People, HR, um, a CFO right away.
41:14 Emma Grede? Right away.
41:14 Speaker 02 Right away, yeah.
41:15 Emma Grede? That is my thing.
41:16 Speaker 02 I think HR CFO would be my first two hires. And then an ops person, cause I don't know what kind of business I'm creating next, but those, those feel really important.
41:27 Emma Grede? Because for me, it seems like you're the type of person, you know exactly what you want, but you need the right people around you just to shape it up.
41:33 Speaker 02 Shape, exactly, yeah. And make sure the numbers make sense and they continue to make sense and tell me before they stop making sense. Don't tell me after the fact, cause that gets on my dang nerves.
41:45 Emma Grede? Totally.
41:45 Speaker 02 Yeah, like let's get in front of it, like let's hold hands, like we're not being precious about this concept.
41:50 Emma Grede? Do you think that you had a good understanding when you were out raising all of this money of where that was gonna take you?
41:56 Speaker 02 Well, I think the way the business was built was in the digital first kind of business model is a different business model. It's a growth model, so those.
42:07 Emma Grede? It's not about profitability.
42:08 Speaker 02 No, it's not about profitability. So having to take a company from a totally growth mindset and move it into a profitable mindset with a started with strong tech capabilities to a strong CPG capabilities. I mean, it literally transformed into a completely different company. And I would say this third phase with my, and I would, I think every CEO are the phases that I would, that I would think of that.
42:35 Emma Grede? How many CEOs have you had?
42:37 Speaker 02 I'm on my third.
42:38 Emma Grede? That's pretty good going after twelve, thirteen years.
42:40 Speaker 02 Yeah, she's, she's the one where I can safely say like, I can sleep at night, it's in good hands. She's golden, like she gets, she, she gets the mission of the company, she knows how to grow the business. She's very honest and transparent. Her ego isn't getting in the way of putting the business first and what's right for the business.
43:03 Emma Grede? And how much of her suitability is actually about you as a founder, knowing what you need and what suits you versus the other ones that maybe won't so well suit it? Because I feel like I get better, hopefully, every year at choosing the right people to operate around me.
43:19 Speaker 02 Definitely got better.
43:20 Emma Grede? It's not ea- I mean, it's not easy.
43:23 Speaker 02 You don't know until it doesn't work.
43:25 Emma Grede? You don't know until it doesn't work.
43:26 Speaker 02 Yeah.
43:26 Emma Grede? Yeah.
43:27 Speaker 02 And that's the, that's the real.
43:28 Emma Grede? And someone can have been very successful on paper in another place and yet not be right for you, right?
43:33 Speaker 02 Often.
43:34 Emma Grede? And it's a very difficult balance to strike, especially when you get to something, you were building this company, you took it public.
43:41 Speaker 02 It's a different sense of accountability.
43:42 Emma Grede? Yeah, yeah.
43:43 Speaker 02 Yeah, accountability. That's one thing that I feel like with Carla, that I so appreciate is her, her conviction around accountability and her pride in accountability. It's really uncanny. And I think being a Afro Latina in a very traditional CPG world and going up through the, the ranks, she's just had to put up with a lot of foolishness.
44:11 Emma Grede? No doubt.
44:11 Speaker 02 And so there weren't probably as many safety nets in place for her as there may have been.
44:19 Emma Grede? That's interesting psychology as someone who's come in.
44:22 Speaker 02 I was, I maybe, maybe her lived experience as her moving through the world.
44:27 Emma Grede? It would make sense.
44:28 Speaker 02 And her having to navigate it.
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45:28 Emma Grede? There was somewhere I've read you've described yourself as having an unnatural level of discipline. How has that helped you be successful as a founder?
45:37 Speaker 02 I would say, maybe I was, maybe I worded it wrong. Perseverance, I have an unnatural amount of perseverance.
45:46 Emma Grede? How so? Say more.
45:48 Speaker 02 I push myself to the point where I'm like, if it literally, if it doesn't kill me, it will make me stronger. And I put myself physically and emotionally to the brink of every edge. And I don't know how to not do that. I'm like the little rattlesnake, the baby, that just releases all the venom and doesn't know that you only need to do a little bit.
46:16 Emma Grede? Just a little bit?
46:16 Speaker 02 No.
46:16 Emma Grede? You need to do your whole lifetime of venom.
46:18 Speaker 02 The whole lifetime of venom. So I just go hard on the paint all the time. So I'm...
46:22 Emma Grede? Does that show up in all areas of your life or specifically related to business?
46:26 Speaker 02 No, I think it's in all areas, but I'm learning how to regulate a little bit more. And I think meditating has helped a lot. I do a lot of inner work and healing. And I think that helps because it's not sustainable.
46:42 Emma Grede? No, it's not. Do you think it's cost you personally, creatively?
46:46 Speaker 02 Yes. Yep. I think it also, when you have that level of that work ethic, of course, you expect everyone else around you to operate that way. And it could be very depleting for your team. Because even though I work that way, and I'll work to the bone, and I can think of 98 tiny minute details, that's not how everybody's brain works or processes, and it just overwhelms them. And so I've had to learn about reading the room, I've had to learn about reading a situation, I've had to learn how to just feed bits and pieces, although I was on the phone with my contractor this morning, and I really gave it to him.
47:29 Speaker 02 I really, I was just supposed to talk about one thing.
47:33 Emma Grede? And you went. Baby rattlesnake.
47:37 Speaker 02 Baby rattlesnake.
47:38 Emma Grede? There she goes.
47:39 Speaker 02 All of it.
47:40 Emma Grede? That's amazing. I mean, I asked you, has it costed you anything? Because again, I think we don't talk enough, A, about failure, but B, about the costs. And you can look at you and go like, wow, she did this thing and she built this giant company, but it's never enough. It's never for nothing. There's never no trade off. There's never something that you didn't give up in, in return.
48:02 Speaker 02 Yeah, for sure. And I think even as a friend, I think it's, I could be probably not the easiest friend. I'm generous. I believe I put all my friends on these pedestals and believe, I only see like their ultimate potential and I see that and I push that in them and, and I hold space for them also to be soft because there's not a lot of circumstances where we can be and having another woman hold space for another woman to be soft and to be fragile, especially when she's had to be a badass her whole life to be successful. Like, we have to out, what, what men don't realize is just how hard it is for us to not just be women,
48:42 Speaker 02 but to have to be men times 10. Like, we have to really embody so much in being successful. It's really quite wild.
48:54 Emma Grede? It is wild.
48:55 Speaker 02 And so my friends who have been successful and, and have built things in their lives, I now feel like it's almost my job to say, to like, create almost like a womb environment where it's like, let's just cry together. Let's just not be fucking perfect today. Let's just be.
49:11 Emma Grede? Oh, I love that. Let's just not be fucking perfect today. I'd like someone to say that to me at least once a week. Can you call me every Monday morning, please?
49:22 Speaker 02 Let's not be perfect today.
49:23 Emma Grede? Right. But how do you practice that? Like, how does that come up in your life? Like, how do you not be fucking perfect? Because honestly, like, the idea, looking at you, like, if I'm just, like, passing judgment, I didn't know you at all. And I do a little bit, so I know that that isn't everything. It's not everything of your personality. But how, how have you found the ways to not show up as perfect? And how have you allowed yourself that vulnerability?
49:50 Speaker 02 Well, I think kids, for me, kids have been very grounding as far as like showing you when you're not it. Right? And then for me, instead of getting upset and trying to keep up the facade, I'm like, you're right. I really didn't, I didn't say that right. I didn't show up for you. I could have worded that differently. I could have done this differently. I'm sorry. I'll do better next time. Please continue to tell me how I can be a better mom to you. I literally started taking my kids to therapy when they were like around ten.
50:24 Emma Grede? You did?
50:25 Speaker 02 Yeah, and I did it with them.
50:26 Emma Grede? Together, I was gonna say as a family.
50:28 Speaker 02 And, and I, and I would take the girls one on one. And I would say to the therapist, like, this is meant for them to be able to tell me how I can be a better mom to them. Cause I know they're upset about some things that I do. And I know I want them to know that they won't get in trouble when they talk about it here. And I just want them to feel like they can express themselves in a real way. And, and I, you know, I just know that. I think as you're finding your voice as a young woman, to be able to have your mom say, like, validate you and validate your feelings. I just felt like maybe that could be something that can be kind of life changing for them.
51:07 Emma Grede? Life change, like, si- like seriously life changing.
51:11 Speaker 02 So, so I started that early. I didn't realize how hard it would be.
51:16 Emma Grede? I was gonna say, do you regret it?
51:18 Speaker 02 I'd be like, oh dang, okay, I did.
51:21 Emma Grede? Oh shit, I did that, didn't I?
51:23 Speaker 02 They are mirrors. I'd be like, oh god, yes, I did say that that one time. I really did do that. Or. I remember Honor would say, like, stop treating me like Haven. I'm like, I don't treat you like Haven. And then she was like, and this, and this, and this. And I was like, oh dang, I really do just boop you. Cause it's just easy.
51:41 Emma Grede? It's easier, it's just like this smush of kids that I've got.
51:43 Speaker 02 I'm three years older. She shouldn't be able to get the same privileges as me. It was like about like bedtime.
51:48 Emma Grede? No, I was literally just about to say that. Like, I've had my kids going to bed at the same time forever because that was what's convenient for me. And I'm like, oh my goodness, it took my son to be like, mum, there's like a. Two year difference and two years is big when you're, you know, eight and ten. I'm like, shit.
52:08 Emma Grede? Three drop offs, three bedtimes. I'm like, give me a break, guys.
52:11 Speaker 02 That's the same. I would do the three, the three bedtime stories. Or the cuddle time, or they want to debrief their day. And then all of a sudden it would be midnight. And you're like, I'm so, I'm like a shell of myself.
52:24 Emma Grede? I just wanted to watch something on the TV. Or I've got work to do. I've got work to do. Was the, was the counselling with your kids in reaction to how much you worked? Or was it just more about what is right for the family? Like, I'm asking you if you had, like, big mum guilt.
52:41 Speaker 02 Yeah, I had big mum guilt and I'm always trying to do the most. And I was like, what do I wish I had when I was little? Cause I, I saw some patterns in myself that I just didn't want to pass down to my kids. And I feel like a lot of it started when I was going through puberty and I was starting to like, you know, it's kind of when your kids are individuating and so everything you say is wrong, even when you're right. But it's not about being right. It's just about them individuating from you. Oh, that's the worst.
53:21 Speaker 02 And then when they like, listen to their damn friends and you're like, what does this eleven year old know about anything?
53:29 Emma Grede? It's eleven year olds that have such an easy life.
53:31 Speaker 02 I'm like, it's fine, it's fine, it's fine. But it's actually really healthy for them to individuate. And for them to feel safe enough to be able to push back on you and to know that you're not going anywhere. So I, you know, I had to learn that. It's a lot of humility.
53:46 Emma Grede? It's a gift for your kids, I think, especially, like you said, as young women having that, not even just with their own mother, but having the ability to like, give feedback in a safe space and in a safe way. But you're setting them up for their life.
54:01 Speaker 02 I would say, let go of perfection. And that really helped peel that onion back where they saw their mom. Not perfect. And I show them it's okay to have flaws and you can still be loved.
54:16 Emma Grede? Yeah.
54:16 Speaker 02 And you can still, you know, stand in your power and you can still take up space. And and you can be as flawed of a human being as it takes to learn and grow and be and exist and be truthful.
54:28 Emma Grede? And you're teaching them very early that you are just human, because I think for so long we look at our parents as these like magical mythical beings that they should make no mistakes. And it takes quite a long time to get to a point in your life where you're like, they're just humans. They're just like us. Whereas your kids are learning that really quite young. I love that. Your mom's just like, you're doing it like earlier. No, but it's so healthy for them because they don't like like hold you to an unrealistic standard. And I think for my mom, I was like nineteen years old raging at her and just like, I had you when I was twenty one. I was just figuring it out, kiddo. You know, it's like, had I had, had she been able to educate me in a different way for me to see her as more of a human being who wasn't,
55:11 Emma Grede? you know, always basking in this like light of being a perfectionist, I might have understood that earlier.
55:16 Speaker 02 Right.
55:17 Emma Grede? It's really healthy. It's really helpful.
55:19 Speaker 02 It it's helped both of us. I would say it's also helped me let go of this idea of perfection. And then for them, it's modeling that for themselves.
55:28 Emma Grede? Have you let go of perfection?
55:30 Speaker 02 Yeah. I still have standards that are at the highest level, but I'm not so relentless with the pursuit of them.
55:44 Emma Grede? That feels very evolved.
55:49 Emma Grede? It feels like a real grown up thing to say.
55:52 Speaker 02 I still have to breathe through it. I still have to breathe through it. Yeah.
55:58 Emma Grede? How do you think about success now? Because I know in the early days when you're a founder, you have like a usually as an entrepreneur, you have an idea of like this, when I get here, this is when I'll be successful. How has that evolved for you?
56:09 Speaker 02 For me, I just was like, if people trust.
56:14 Speaker 02 Us to bring us into their home.
56:15 Emma Grede? Hmm.
56:16 Speaker 02 That was success. And I would say that was, that's still success when it comes to honest.
56:22 Emma Grede? I mean, it's a pretty big one, isn't it?
56:24 Speaker 02 You trust us to bring us into your home and be part of your day to day life. And because we are interfaced with people in the most sort of like intimate and um all those like in between moments.
56:36 Emma Grede? Yeah, the time in your life when you have a new baby, right?
56:39 Speaker 02 Or when you're washing your face, when you're looking at, you know, it's like your alone time. Or they're all of these like really kind of precious daily moments.
56:50 Emma Grede? Yeah.
56:50 Speaker 02 And so if you trust us, that's success to me and that hasn't changed. But success to me as a human now is how much I can get into my parasympathetic nervous system instead of my fight or flight. It's like the adrenaline or the cortisol. I don't wanna be in. I don't wanna be there. I wanna be in this neutral space because there's something really liberating about that. And I didn't even realize that I could live in this, in this in between space. Where I'm, I'm not either just totally drained or having to do the most.
57:30 Emma Grede? I, I think that that is so symptomatic of being a founder because you're on this like journey. And it does feel like high lows, high lows, high lows constantly. When do you think?
57:40 Speaker 02 But I think I've been like that my whole life.
57:42 Emma Grede? Really?
57:43 Speaker 02 Yeah.
57:43 Emma Grede? That's just who you are.
57:44 Speaker 02 I think so.
57:45 Emma Grede? That's how you're, you're hardwired that way. So how did you find this kind of golden middle?
57:51 Speaker 02 I, I don't find it often, but this is my.
57:55 Emma Grede? Thank you for being honest.
57:56 Speaker 02 This is my pursuit. This is my pursuit on the daily, at least if I can get a little bit of it.
58:01 Emma Grede? Hmm.
58:02 Speaker 02 I started meditating maybe seven years ago and really doing a lot of inner work. Around that time, my friend got sick with cancer. And so.
58:12 Emma Grede? Thank you.
58:13 Speaker 02 And so I think her journey, her health journey became my health journey.
58:20 Emma Grede? It was like a mirror almost.
58:21 Speaker 02 Yeah.
58:22 Emma Grede? Yeah.
58:22 Speaker 02 Yeah. And so I was like, gosh, it just felt so close to home.
58:27 Emma Grede? Hmm.
58:28 Speaker 02 You know? Yeah, I also just did, I, I thought about just time differently and being present.
58:36 Speaker 02 For my kids. And there's something when you're in a constant state of either like heightened cortisol or heightened adrenaline. You're just not, it's hard to be present.
58:47 Emma Grede? Hmm.
58:47 Speaker 02 And the kids grow so fast. And these moments are so fleeting with them. I just wanna like soak them up.
58:55 Emma Grede? Yes.
58:56 Speaker 02 You know, because it's it's like this. My I my daughter's almost seventeen.
59:02 Emma Grede? How?
59:02 Speaker 02 How did that happen?
59:03 Emma Grede? I don't know.
59:04 Speaker 02 It's so bad.
59:05 Emma Grede? It's crazy.
59:07 Speaker 02 You're gonna go be a senior in high school, like what's going on? It's so hard.
59:12 Emma Grede? Also, because I'm just thirty four.
59:14 Speaker 02 I'm basically twenty eight.
59:16 Emma Grede? What is happening?
59:17 Speaker 02 Saying. No, but she's like, my baby, I'm so proud of her, but it's but it's like. I still see this little like.
59:26 Emma Grede? Yeah.
59:26 Speaker 02 This little kid, she looked like a little Fraggle Rock. She was just this little sweet little face and just little teeth and her little. Voice and her wild hair.
59:36 Emma Grede? But it was a decision that you made. You said like, I've got to draw the line somewhere. I'm gonna take my health seriously. I'm gonna start meditating and I'm gonna live my life in a different.
59:45 Speaker 02 Different way.
59:46 Emma Grede? Different way.
59:47 Speaker 02 Yeah, you can't continue to do the same thing and expect different results. So I started to really prioritize. My mental wellness in a different way.
59:56 Emma Grede? Was there like a moment where you were ever close to quitting or just giving up?
1:00:01 Speaker 02 In the beginning.
1:00:02 Emma Grede? Yeah.
1:00:03 Speaker 02 Beginning for sure, before it became something. But once you get a product in hand and once that product goes into someone's home and once you get the feedback, like. The outpouring of people from people who have. I mean, the amount of people that have sensitive skin. That are like, thank you so much. I have sensitive skin, everything, my skin reacts to everything. Your products are perfect for my skin or my child's skin.
1:00:29 Emma Grede? Beyond.
1:00:30 Speaker 02 You know, it's just like giving people that. That's quality of life, man.
1:00:34 Emma Grede? Yes.
1:00:35 Speaker 02 Then after that, then I'm like, it's worth it.
1:00:37 Emma Grede? It's all worth it. You're like, I can do it, I can go through it.
1:00:40 Speaker 02 Yeah.
1:00:40 Emma Grede? I mean, I always think about it when we do those like volunteer days at Baby to Baby and there are quite literally. Mountains, like huge thousands and thousands and tens of thousands of boxes of products, of Honest products that you're giving away. And when you're in that situation where you can give away that much product for a good cause, I'm like.
1:01:00 Speaker 02 We embedded nonprofit and charity into our business model from day one with baby to baby. But it was never like, I didn't want that to be the reason why people bought Honest. I just wanted it to be part of our culture and it's just part of who we are as a brand.
1:01:16 Emma Grede? And it's amazing that all these years later, that key tenant of the company has remained, right? Cause still to this day, it's like when I'm packing up those bags, well, obviously we're both on the board of baby to baby. But it's like you do so much still and I feel like that's something you can take great pride in.
1:01:31 Speaker 02 Yeah, it's cool.
1:01:32 Emma Grede? It's really nice to give away, but it's also really nice to stack money. And I want to talk to you about money for a second because obviously you didn't come from much. How has your relationship to money changed over the years?
1:01:45 Speaker 02 It really has changed from the scarcity mindset to abundance mindset.
1:01:50 Emma Grede? What does that mean for you?
1:01:52 Speaker 02 Thinking that every day was my last day of making money and I was never going to make another dime again. And so I had this like hustler thing of like, oh no, where's my next meal? Or, oh no, am I going to have a roof over my head or oh no, am I going to be okay? This like scarcity, like there was never going to be enough and it was going to slip through my hands and just not having a safety net really, or feeling like the my, the floor was going to be pulled out from underneath me to like, I'm on solid ground.
1:02:21 Emma Grede? Hmm.
1:02:22 Speaker 02 I'm okay. I can breathe. I can look around and I can think about like, actually what brings me joy.
1:02:29 Emma Grede? Is the money a part of that?
1:02:30 Speaker 02 Yeah. Don't you think?
1:02:33 Emma Grede? Yeah, I do think. I just think most people lie.
1:02:35 Speaker 02 Yeah, no, money, money allows you to be exactly who you really are at your core. And when you are in survival mode, it's very difficult to be your truest self.
1:02:46 Emma Grede? Facts, actual factual facts.
1:02:49 Speaker 02 Yeah.
1:02:49 Emma Grede? Yes, because you're in survival mode. You have to make decisions that were otherwise outside of who you are and who you truly want to be. And money is greatly freeing in that sense.
1:02:59 Speaker 02 It's very liberating and it's just, it's just what it is.
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1:05:16 Emma Grede? What's your behaviour around money now? Do you, do you invest? Like, do you invest in other businesses? Like, what are you, what are you doing?
1:05:23 Speaker 02 Not as much as you. I wish I had as much as you to invest. No, I, um, I, no, I invest, I advise. I love helping out and advising other women, especially in business, purpose-driven businesses, just because I've been through the trenches. Also, like, the VC to PE investors, those are very different types of investors. And then you have the institutional investors, and then you have Wall Street. They're all very different.
1:05:56 Emma Grede? Do you feel a sense, and I, I say this because I feel it myself, I feel a sense of obligation, like, I have to let people know, because I had so much ignorance to all of that stuff, and I learned the hard way. So I feel like I have to, it's like I'm running around, like, telling people.
1:06:11 Speaker 02 I wanted to, I tried to be the person I never had in my corner. Yeah.
1:06:18 Emma Grede? I imagine that you were very underestimated in some of those rooms.
1:06:21 Speaker 02 All of them, and continue to.
1:06:24 Emma Grede? You think still now?
1:06:25 Speaker 02 Oh, yeah.
1:06:26 Emma Grede? Even after everything that you feel and go in public and ringing the bell and all the things?
1:06:30 Speaker 02 I think unless someone, like, actually sits down with me and has a conversation with me, I think there's bias, there's a bias around who I am and how I fit into the puzzle. Don't you think? Even with you?
1:06:44 Emma Grede? Yeah, I mean, I know there is.
1:06:46 Speaker 02 I think we glitch people. They just, they're just like, there's no way you can be smart and capable and marketing and great ideas and visionary and you understand supply chain and operations and how the business model works in order for you to have a strong EBIT or whatever. They, like, can't, like, their minds are like, wait, what?
1:07:11 Emma Grede? It's like in tech era, a hundred percent.
1:07:12 Speaker 02 It's just, it's just like, yeah. And so you have to allow for that to happen.
1:07:17 Emma Grede? I, you know, it's so interesting because I feel like I've so. That has happened to me so frequently in my life that at this point I just blank it out. I'm like, you must be a fool to underestimate me. Like, do you know what I'm like, how dumb are you? Like, it just, you know, it doesn't even, I don't know, like, it doesn't even touch the sides. I used to get so irritated.
1:07:37 Speaker 02 I used to get so irritated too.
1:07:38 Emma Grede? You know, it used to really, and more than irritated, it used to upset me.
1:07:41 Speaker 02 It used to upset me. That's why I'd be like, we're fighting. In my meetings, I'd be like, we're here to fight.
1:07:46 Emma Grede? Um, my question for you was that I wonder what you learned about asserting yourself in spaces where perhaps you weren't immediately taken at face value. Like, what do you tell other female founders and what did you learn about yourself?
1:08:03 Speaker 02 I learned that you have to know the fine print. You've got to know your numbers. You've got to understand your business model. You've got to understand the two or three other business models that they're going to throw at you as examples of what you could be or what you could do. And you have to give them three reasons why all of those won't work for your particular business. So you just have to know your business inside and out, and you have to understand the marketplace and how you differentiate inside of it. You have to know that. If you don't, there's no reason for you to be in those rooms.
1:08:37 Emma Grede? Yeah, you've got to be ready.
1:08:38 Speaker 02 You've got to be ready. Yeah. So preparation is, is most important. And then, once you're prepared, then there's nothing to fear. Then it's just nonsense. Then, then, then you can just ask them questions.
1:08:52 Emma Grede? Yeah. No, and that's it, right? Oftentimes, I think, I used to have this thing, I think it was Jens's, I know it was Jens who said it to me. He said, you know, you have an employee's mentality. And it drove me crazy because I was always going into these meetings almost seeking somebody else giving me the answer. I was like constantly in sales mode. And when you learn to flip the table a little bit, and it's like, actually, we're all in this room because we all need something from this, it changes everything. And that took me a really long time to learn. And arguably, I think, like, way longer than it should have. You know, I still went in as like a service provider into every room. And I was like, what am I doing? Like, I don't need to be here. But that's my default mode. Yeah, they
1:09:36 Emma Grede? got it. And if they don't got it, they ain't my people. Like, so I'm not here. I don't have to sell everything all the time.
1:09:41 Speaker 02 I'm a bit that way, too.
1:09:43 Emma Grede? What's your biggest entrepreneurial lesson? Like, given everything that you have been through and learned, what do you think is like? The one thing that you maybe wish you knew earlier.
1:09:54 Speaker 02 To trust my gut. Cause even in the beginning, when I didn't have as much of a business acumen, I had instincts that told me if something was off, my like spidey sense. Or this, this person is maybe not aligned or that felt that meeting was a little bit huh? That was weird. And instead of like spiraling or going through a back door, clocking it, but not doing something about it. I would act on all of my gut instincts quicker. And I would say when someone's not a fit, there doesn't actually need to be any kind of bad feelings about it.
1:10:34 Emma Grede? No animosity.
1:10:35 Speaker 02 You're gonna have a much better time anywhere else but here.
1:10:38 Emma Grede? Mm hmm.
1:10:39 Speaker 02 Cause you're just not fit.
1:10:40 Emma Grede? You're just not, exactly. Yeah.
1:10:42 Speaker 02 No big deal.
1:10:42 Emma Grede? And it's not personal.
1:10:43 Speaker 02 No, it's not personal.
1:10:44 Emma Grede? It's never personal. So we gotta move on and you've got to do those things like really quickly. I think because of who you are and obviously how quickly that business grew, you were often under a lot of scrutiny. And I think that now, especially when you run businesses in this sort of age of.
1:11:00 Speaker 02 Cancel culture.
1:11:01 Emma Grede? Cancel culture and like social media and like all of the things. Like what did you learn and how did you create? Again, because you kind of go into that panic mode, but when your brand is being challenged or questioned.
1:11:13 Speaker 02 It's also a strategy.
1:11:15 Emma Grede? Absolutely. They're coming to get you.
1:11:18 Speaker 02 They come in because that's, that's how they can devalue you.
1:11:22 Emma Grede? Yes.
1:11:22 Speaker 02 And then they can swoop in and buy you at a discount.
1:11:25 Emma Grede? And that was happening to you?
1:11:26 Speaker 02 Sure.
1:11:28 Emma Grede? Shit. Did you know at the time or did you find that stuff out later?
1:11:31 Speaker 02 Later.
1:11:32 Emma Grede? Yeah. Shit.
1:11:33 Speaker 02 Yeah.
1:11:34 Emma Grede? Oh.
1:11:36 Speaker 02 But it, it's, it was so nefarious in the way it goes down.
1:11:40 Emma Grede? Yes.
1:11:40 Speaker 02 When stuff like that goes down. And when you like unpack how it all goes down.
1:11:45 Emma Grede? Yeah, like look at the timing.
1:11:46 Speaker 02 Uh huh, uh huh. It's very strategic. It's fine or you're a threat to their market share. And so they're like, how can I?
1:11:56 Emma Grede? Which was a real threat for a, for.
1:11:58 Speaker 02 Which is.
1:11:59 Emma Grede? Still a threat.
1:12:00 Speaker 02 Yeah. Cause I mean, there was, I created this category. And I would say it's probably around consciousness, transparency, honesty. Like what does that really mean? It doesn't mean anything or it can mean everything.
1:12:14 Emma Grede? Do you sit there and can you say to yourself, I created this category? Like, can you, like, is that how you, because I rea- I mean, I def- I definitely think so all that time ago, but do you feel like you get credited for that?
1:12:27 Speaker 02 I don't care.
1:12:28 Emma Grede? Really?
1:12:28 Speaker 02 Because I think people are better off whether I get credit for it or not. Ultimately, I really care about human beings and whether they are gonna have their best chance at life. And if they're being exposed to things that can make them sick, they, it's gonna be really hard to live a good life.
1:12:48 Emma Grede? Yeah.
1:12:48 Speaker 02 No matter who you are, it, because illness doesn't discriminate. And so for me, I was like, I just want people to have the best chance at life.
1:12:57 Emma Grede? Yeah.
1:12:57 Speaker 02 And whether people wanna credit me for that, I don't care.
1:13:00 Emma Grede? Fair enough. You're a mission-driven company that actually made its mission.
1:13:03 Speaker 02 Yeah.
1:13:04 Emma Grede? No, congratulations.
1:13:05 Speaker 02 And if, if the market, if like all the big companies now have to think twice.
1:13:10 Emma Grede? Oh, and they do.
1:13:11 Speaker 02 Amazing.
1:13:12 Emma Grede? Right?
1:13:12 Speaker 02 That's, that's success.
1:13:14 Emma Grede? No, you almost like forced a revolution in how those companies get to operate and the level of transparency that we all have as an expectation. Yes. That it's, it's like a baseline expectation now. We talk about success stories so freely, but if, if I were to ask you the story that you tell least, like, what would that have been for you through this business journey?
1:13:35 Speaker 02 Maybe what I just said.
1:13:36 Emma Grede? Really? That? I already got it. I'll take it.
1:13:39 Speaker 02 Yeah, I think I've never said that.
1:13:41 Emma Grede? Really?
1:13:41 Speaker 02 Out loud.
1:13:42 Emma Grede? Okay, fine. I'll definitely take that one.
1:13:44 Speaker 02 It just like rolled out and I was like, wait, is that too much?
1:13:46 Emma Grede? No!
1:13:48 Speaker 02 I don't know, I, but it.
1:13:49 Emma Grede? Not on a spire with Emma Grede. We are here for the business tea. Like, we need this. No, because listen, I think that what happens, especially, I don't know, I hear very different conversations between my friends that are female entrepreneurs than what I hear my husband have. Because I think that for women, it's a lot more personal and that we believe when it fails, we're a failure.
1:14:10 Speaker 02 Yeah.
1:14:10 Emma Grede? And.
1:14:10 Speaker 02 This is true.
1:14:11 Emma Grede? And, and I don't believe any of that, by the way. I have failed multiple times and you don't put them on Instagram in the same way. So maybe they don't get the same light. But I don't think it helps anyone walking around being like, everything in my life is so amazing and my kids are perfect and they love the amount that they see me and my business is thriving, when in fact, that's just not, it's never been the reality of my business journey.
1:14:33 Speaker 02 When Anna was in preschool, she was like, mommy, why can't you be here like the other moms? I'm like, what do you mean? And she's like. All the other moms are here for Halloween and you weren't. And I'm like, oh, it's not that I didn't want to be, you know, like, kind of like, but I wanted, but I'm here now.
1:14:51 Emma Grede? Yeah.
1:14:51 Speaker 02 She's just like, but you weren't here yesterday, or like, you weren't here the other day. And she like, would name all these things like,
1:14:59 Speaker 02 it's true, you know?
1:15:00 Emma Grede? How did you reconcile that?
1:15:02 Speaker 02 I cried.
1:15:04 Emma Grede? Yeah.
1:15:04 Speaker 02 How do you reconcile that? I cried and I like, lay with them and I stay up till midnight, giving them all their individual cuddles and going through their day and waiting until they are drooling on me until I leave a room and then go to the next room and, you know?
1:15:22 Emma Grede? Yeah. Yeah, I know. I know exactly. It's really fucking hard.
1:15:27 Speaker 02 It's really fucking hard.
1:15:27 Emma Grede? It's really hard.
1:15:28 Speaker 02 Yeah, and, and you know that this time is so finite, so you want to give them these, these memories and these moments.
1:15:35 Emma Grede? Are there things that you look back on and you go, I just got this so wrong?
1:15:41 Speaker 02 Yeah, even just how I fit inside of the puzzle of my life. And believing so many times that I was the provocateur, I was the villain in the story. When in fact, I was the one who just inspired change.
1:15:58 Emma Grede? Hmm.
1:15:59 Speaker 02 Or I was the momentum.
1:16:01 Emma Grede? Mm hmm.
1:16:01 Speaker 02 And if people aren't comfortable with momentum, they can view you however they want because you're now lighting a fire under their ass that they, they're happy just meandering in a pond. But you're moving forward. And it could be a threat, it could feel like an assault, it could feel like a challenge.
1:16:24 Emma Grede? Yes.
1:16:25 Speaker 02 But you're just doing you. And, and I think for us, where we're on this mo- momentum is, is, is our personality, it's our soul, it's our spirit, it's what we're here to do. We're not here to accept the way the world is operating around us. We're here to challenge, to push boundaries and pioneer. And so if we're not doing it, we're not being true to our purpose and why we were put on this planet. And I think for a long time, because it makes, there's so few of us, and it makes a lot of people uncomfortable.
1:16:56 Emma Grede? A lot of people.
1:16:57 Speaker 02 And, and I think. We have to understand that we're not wrong, we're not bad. And we're actually fulfilling. It would be wrong if we didn't do what we're doing.
1:17:07 Emma Grede? I'm so glad you said that. That would be the wrong part. That's the only bit of it that would be truly wrong. I was thinking about maybe what you would say to other female founders, specifically now, given everything, you know?
1:17:20 Speaker 02 We have so many good ideas. I think we just have to believe in ourselves more. I think we're so untapped. Even even if you just think of like the women of color who get funding for their startups, it's what, less than three percent? I think it's like less than three percent.
1:17:37 Emma Grede? Less than naught point three percent.
1:17:39 Speaker 02 One point three. It went down since the pandemic.
1:17:42 Emma Grede? It's really, really frightening and devastating at the same time.
1:17:47 Speaker 02 The businesses that are created or created by women, they're all these small businesses, right?
1:17:52 Emma Grede? If you look at the number of new businesses started in the last ten years, it disproportionately is uh it's women, female founders. And yet the funding gap is, I mean, we know what it is. It's, I mean, it's a joke, except it's not funny.
1:18:06 Speaker 02 No, it's actually.
1:18:06 Emma Grede? A really unfunny joke.
1:18:07 Speaker 02 But it's also like the systemic oppression. That we can't ignore or deny.
1:18:14 Emma Grede? No, we cannot. And I think that one of the main reasons that I wanted to start this podcast is again, because so much of the information is shrouded in mystery, right? As women, we get these like glory stories and we see these amazing women and they're sitting at these offices and they look incredible, but we're not free to fail. And when we do fail, there's this horrible kind of like female founder pile that you put on and you're hung out to dry and.
1:18:39 Speaker 02 Cause there's so few of us that get a shot.
1:18:41 Emma Grede? Well, there's so.
1:18:41 Speaker 02 And so they want to use this as an example.
1:18:43 Emma Grede? And and that's what drives me crazy because I know so many women and I myself who have failed multiple times. And you can come back, but you have to know that you've got permission to come back, right?
1:18:53 Speaker 02 And also, it's the only way to learn and grow.
1:18:56 Emma Grede? Yes.
1:18:57 Speaker 02 You don't learn by being successful.
1:18:58 Emma Grede? No, you do not. No.
1:19:00 Speaker 02 By screwing up and falling on your face.
1:19:02 Emma Grede? It's the opposite. It's like all my best learnings are in the failures. Success covers a lot of shit, actually. You can have a really shitty company that's successful.
1:19:11 Emma Grede? It's no, but it's true, right? If you, if you're failing, you, you tweak more, you learn more, you tinker with the model and you like, until you figure it out. It's when things are too successful, you look back three years in and you're like, oh shit, like we've been ignoring a lot of problems.
1:19:26 Speaker 02 What have we been doing the whole time?
1:19:28 Emma Grede? I want to ask you because you talk a lot about therapy and your spiritual side. And I wonder how that impacts who you are, not just as a founder and an entrepreneur, but as a person and how you make choices as you go forward in your life. Like, what does that, what does that look like for you these days?
1:19:45 Speaker 02 It's allowed me to connect quicker and I have more of a direct line to my intuition. And I think before it was like, is it in there? Is it real? Is that, am I just making it up? But it's like, it's very clear to me now and it's very direct. And it's, you know, I baked into my intuition, like, because of the way I think and process, there's always going to be logic. I'm always going to be pragmatic. I couldn't have come from where I came from and become who I've become without logic and being pragmatic and being a straight shooter and seeing things in black and white and facts, facts, facts, facts. Love facts. But on top of that, the magic is the intuition.
1:20:30 Emma Grede? Yes. Yeah. And that's what you said earlier, like you would have listened to your guts. So now you're really tapping into that.
1:20:36 Speaker 02 Really tapped in.
1:20:37 Emma Grede? Yeah.
1:20:37 Speaker 02 Yeah. And allowing myself to not have this illusion of perfection. I'm really kind of now in my soft era, just being soft and being vulnerable, which feels really unsafe. But I talked to this woman yesterday and she was like, Having emotions doesn't make you, you're not dysregulated by having emotions. But having a safe space to express those emotions, that's when you know you're in a good place. And so I do feel like I've created a safe space to express emotions.
1:21:18 Speaker 02 Cause I'm gonna be angry, you're gonna be happy, you're gonna be sad. That's normal, you're a human being.
1:21:23 Emma Grede? So normal.
1:21:23 Speaker 02 But having the safe space to express them freely without it completely dysregulating everyone else.
1:21:30 Emma Grede? Yeah.
1:21:31 Speaker 02 You know, where it's like you can get it out, bah, and then you go back, you know, to your regularly scheduled program, whatever that is. But bottling it in, pretending like it doesn't exist.
1:21:43 Emma Grede? Not helpful.
1:21:43 Speaker 02 Trying to be so together all the time and ultra control, that'll make you sick.
1:21:48 Emma Grede? Yeah, that'll really make you sick.
1:21:50 Speaker 02 Yeah.
1:21:50 Emma Grede? Does soft life Jessica have another startup in her?
1:21:53 Speaker 02 I hope so.
1:21:55 Emma Grede? You do?
1:21:55 Speaker 02 Yeah, right now I'm really leaning hard on entertainment and producing and I'm gonna be acting soon again.
1:22:03 Emma Grede? I'm saying, I mean, you are, you are back out and, you know.
1:22:07 Speaker 02 And so I'm excited about that stuff. I love telling stories and entertainment. I can't help but be a marketing and branding person, cause I just, that's just how I, I operate, always have. It would be fun to, to create or to build on business again. It's so fun.
1:22:26 Emma Grede? It's so fun.
1:22:27 Speaker 02 It's so fun.
1:22:27 Emma Grede? It's so fun. And it's like all those learnings and everything you've got.
1:22:30 Speaker 02 The incubation and the, getting it off the ground and all the unknowns.
1:22:34 Emma Grede? That year one. So nice.
1:22:36 Speaker 02 Yeah.
1:22:37 Emma Grede? As a mother of three, what are you teaching your kids about entrepreneurship and also about money?
1:22:43 Speaker 02 They do, I think, understand that money is freedom for them to be able to live how they want.
1:22:51 Emma Grede? Yeah.
1:22:52 Speaker 02 And so in, think about being a responsible person and being a reliable person. When you commit to said job, whatever that looks like for you. But I really want them to feel fulfilled and feel like they matter. And if, whatever that looks like. And so maybe for one of them or all three of them, it's, they don't need to have.
1:23:19 Speaker 02 The same amount as another and maybe it's more about experiential and maybe it's something else that brings them joy. I just want them to experience joy and feel good and not to be in survival mode and but I did I talked to them a lot about how I grew up and about survival mode and so they know that that is something that people experience and they have been fortunate to not have to grow up in that environment. So they're very, I would say they have humility and I think that's good for them. Entrepreneurship, I think they've seen their father and me both create businesses out of ideas. Growing up with that,
1:23:59 Speaker 02 they see that modeled and and we both have have created pretty successful businesses. So they they see that it's possible.
1:24:06 Emma Grede? Yes.
1:24:06 Speaker 02 So once you see it's possible and we look like them. And then they're like, oh, yeah, that that can be us too. Yeah.
1:24:13 Emma Grede? I wonder if you stepping down has given you what you intended it to. Like, are you in that place now where you're like, I got what I needed?
1:24:22 Speaker 02 Yeah, you know, I have enough distance from it now. I think in the beginning it was really hard, right? Because I felt still so like the the chords. It's almost like the umbilical cord, like with your kids, you know, but I still felt that attachment. But I really feel like it's on its own doing its thing.
1:24:40 Emma Grede? I mean, honestly, I think it's just I've always been impressed with you every time we've ever met, but I think that you know, what you've done with that business and where you've come to personally, it really is something to be so proud of. And I think if your kids just take one little one percent of that, like you could just be, you know, so happy with everything. It would all be entirely worth it.
1:25:03 Speaker 02 I just want them to feel loved by me.
1:25:06 Emma Grede? Well, I'm sure they do.
1:25:07 Speaker 02 Yeah.
1:25:07 Emma Grede? I'm sure they do.
1:25:08 Speaker 02 That's most important.
1:25:09 Emma Grede? No doubt. Thank you, my dear. I only have a very quick speed round of questions for you. Then we're done. What is your morning ritual and your nighttime routine?
1:25:19 Speaker 02 Morning ritual is I wake up, I pound water, I meditate in bed. I usually have like two or three ready to go. Mm hmm. And then I get my morning coffee and I work out. And then at night, I do my skincare. I love chamomile tea at night. Me too. And so that like nighttime tea time, my my skincare routine. And then it depends if I have the kids with me. I usually have two of them in my room with me at any given time. Yeah. They sleep in your bed or they're just in your room? My son, sometimes I can convince him to sleep on the bed, but he loves sleeping on the ground and we have like a little bed on the ground.
1:26:04 Speaker 02 I don't know why. He just was like, no, mom, I'm I'm gonna be on the ground here. He's so cute. Just needs to be close to you. Havy sleeps with me usually, but once in a while, well, yeah, usually Haven. That's so sweet. Yeah. Okay, what is your current aspiration in business and what is it personally? My current aspiration in business, I don't know, I have, I don't have a focus yet on where to put that energy. But I feel like it'll be, not not yet, not yet. But I I have to say I love wellness and I love beauty. And so whatever that is, I'm not sure what that is yet. And what about personally? Personally, what do I aspire?
1:26:47 Speaker 02 I really aspire to stretch out my in-between moments as much as possible. That is a really wonderful thing to aspire to. I might steal that one. Um, what is a book that's changed your life? I would say as for this podcast, Start With Why is a good one. Adam's book, Think Again. Oh, that's a that's a really good one. Adam Grant, he's very good. And Leadership, The Eleanor Roosevelt Way is a really great one.
1:27:17 Speaker 02 I know that one too. Because you see this woman who grew up and was raised in a time where women were such second-class citizens in so many ways. And she was the rock, the anchor in this relationship. And what she did for veterans, what she did for civil rights, what she did for women, what she just did in that time. And it wasn't a lot of time. And what she she just did so much and she would not take no for an answer. Someone to really look up to. What did you once prioritize that you no longer value? Control.
1:27:58 Emma Grede? What is something that you deeply value today that you overlooked in the past?
1:28:02 Speaker 02 Snuggles. It's being cosy.
1:28:05 Emma Grede? Just being cosy. One of the best things. Thank you, my darling. This was heaven. It was so great. Thank you.
1:28:11 Speaker 02 Thank you.
1:28:17 Emma Grede? If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click follow on your favourite listening platform. While you're there, give us a review and a five star rating and share an episode you loved with a friend. We'll be so grateful. Aspire with Emma Grede is presented by Odyssey. I'm your host, Emma Grede. Our executive producers are Corinne Gilliard Fisher, Derek Brown and me. Our executive producers from Odyssey are Maddie Sprung Kaiser, Leah Reese Dennis, Asha Saluja and Jenna Weiss-Berman. Our producer is Kristin Torres. Sound design and engineering by Bill Schultz. Angela Peluso is our booker. Original music by Charles Black. Video production by Evan Cox, Kurt Courtney, Andrew Steele, Carlos Delgado and Arnie Agassi. Social media by Olivia Holman.
1:29:02 Emma Grede? Special thanks go to Brittany Smith, Sidney Ford, my teams at Jonesworks and WNE, Maura Curran, Josephina Francis, Hilary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson Rose, Tim Meekle, Sean Cherry and Lauren Vieira. If you have questions for me, you can DM me at aspirewithemmagreed. Grede is spelt G R E D E. That's aspire, A S P I R E with Emma Grede. Or you can submit a question to me on my website, emmagreed.me.
1:29:36 Speaker 08 Our presenting sponsor today is Anthropic, the team behind Claude. Anthropic is a research company first, built to make sure the transition to powerful AI goes well. When they launched Claude in 2023, its first users were businesses. Since then, it's been tested inside leading startups and enterprises. At DoorDash, a code migration that would have taken four engineers months to complete took one person three weeks. At Carvana, one team used to hunt through old tickets and code to answer. or a question. With Claude, they get answers 65% faster. And at Rakuten, engineers have achieved 99.9% accuracy on tough coding jobs using Claude.
1:30:17 Speaker 08 Today, nine Fortune 10 companies run on Claude for the work they want to get right. And these businesses are helping Anthropic shape what comes next. Build your business with support from Claude at claude.ai/odyssey.
Previous The Aspire Playbook: How Lucy Guo, a Rebel Girl in a Man’s World, Became the World’s Youngest Self-Made Female Billionaire Next Why Your Biggest Gambles Must Always Be On Yourself (with Kandi Burruss) Page updated November 1, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated