When Women Fight Back, the Daring Danaides Who Refused to Submit

It's time for a very spoooooky episode... at least, it's spooky if you're a predatory man! This is the story of the 50 young women (girls, really) who protected themselves when necessary. AVAILABLE NOW! The Odyssey: a Modern Retelling. https://geni.us/TheOdysseyBook Submit your question for the next Q&A via email http://mythsbaby.com/questions or a voice note https://www.speakpipe.com/LTAMB. Get ad-free episodes and so, so much more, by subscribing to the Oracle Edition at patreon.com/mythsbaby http://patreon.com/mythsbaby. Enter ourhttps://www.mythsbaby.com/contactpodcast guest https://www.mythsbaby.com/contact form if you'd like to be on the show as a conversation guest! CW/TW: far too many Greek myths involve assault. I try to provide direct warnings when there is reference to anything with overtly traumatic themes but be aware that Greek mythology regularly features assault, death, and many other potentially triggering events. Sources: Pseudo-Apollodorus' Library of Greek Mythology https://topostext.org/work/150#2.1.4. Attributions and licensing information for music used in the podcast can be found here:http://mythsbaby.com/sources-attributionsmythsbaby.com/sources-attributions http://mythsbaby.com/sources-attributions. Learn more about Liv's next group trips https://travelbugxlivalbert.my.canva.site/ to GREECE! Application deadline is November 30 (Subject to change due to demand). Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Liv Albert?

  Hey nerds, really quick note from me. I want to tell you that we now have the applications open for the next set of listener group trips. This is us going back to the original, the trips that we have held in the past that have been so much fun, so successful, and pretty affordable in terms of wandering around Greece with a bunch of nerds. So check out the details and get your applications in at mythsbaby.com/grouptrip.

• 0:43Liv Albert?

  Hot flashes, rage crying, forgetting words mid-senten. Yeah, we know. Menopause is a lot. Midi Health gets it. That's why Midi offers virtual healthcare specially tailored to women's needs. Built for women by women. Every symptom, every stage, every question. Visit joinmidi.com to get started today. That's join M-I-D-I.com. Individual results and coverage varies. Check with your plan for coverage.

• 1:13Speaker 01

  Hi, it's Danny Pellegrino from Everything Iconic. 12 celebrities, one Don, and cold, hard cash. From the producers of The Traitors comes The Mob, a new Hulu original series. The iconic Parker Posey hosts this unique reality competition show where 12 celebrity contestants shake down in an Italian villa to win a share of up to $250,000. Watch the new Hulu original series, The Mob, premiering October 26 on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus for bundle subscribers. Terms apply.

• 2:12Liv Albert?

  Hello, this is Let's Talk About Myths, baby, and I am Liv, that host who's always yelling, but like, in a fun way, you know? Surprise, surprise, surprise, today's episode is a myth of, or another, I should say, another myth about female rage. I don't know where that's coming from. There's nothing in current events that would lead me to this. It's also a spooky story, though. A spooky story of female rage. Or spooky female rage? This is a spooky season. This is the time for it. And frankly, it's sometimes the only way that women get to have

• 2:55Liv Albert?

  stories of actually... Well, you'll see. You'll see. Spooky season is upon us, and you all just know how much I love a murderous tale of horror and rage and revenge for this, the spookiest of seasons. So today, we are talking about the women who we collectively call the Danaids. They're named for their father, naturally. Otherwise, how would anyone remember that men exist? That's why I'm named for my dad, too. He's cool, though. And I'm getting ahead of myself. So I went back and forth about whether or not to retread the story of Agamemnon sacrificing

• 3:35Liv Albert?

  his daughter Iphigenia for a bit of good wind. That would have been today's episode, but I got a little caught up in the prospect of returning to some other more on-brand spooky seasons, women murdering men. And besides, earlier this year, I did actually re-air the series that I did on Euripides's play, Iphigenia at Atlas, which is the most detailed version of that story that survives. So, in advance of starting the Iliad reading next month, if you are curious about that little sort of missing piece in the puzzle, listen back to either those re-aired episodes on the Euripides play, or way back in the day, probably 2018, I covered the story much more briefly as just part of the lead-up to the war. So

• 4:18Liv Albert?

  you can check that out, too. If I'm honest, I'm finally feeling like myself again when it comes to writing and scripting and all things myth. So I'm kind of just running with the stories that feel right. Instead of more recent months where I've just been feeling drained of creativity and completely incapable of doing much beyond what is right in front of me and so completely necessary, like, oh, it feels so good to, I feel free again. And now I'm getting, finding myself getting locked into these ADHD hyper-focus sessions, which haven't been happening in ages, also probably because medication sucks. But that's what happened to me yesterday, which was originally the day that I was going to be

• 5:03Liv Albert?

  working on this Danaid script. But instead, I started writing it at 8:00 AM on the day it was supposed to come out because I just cannot seem to escape my nymphs. I am neck-deep in this book about all things nymphs. I'm feeling a bit of nymphomania, if you will. And gods, what a refreshing reason for me to be working on a script first thing in the morning is because I actually got to write stuff yesterday. Whoa. What a time to be alive. Okay, I'm rambling too much. Fingers crossed that the nymphs book will be something in the near future, because I swear I'm working on so much, but the episodes are not necessarily showing it. But gods, those nymph brides deserve their own form of revenge, and that

• 5:48Liv Albert?

  is what I am trying to give to them. But like I said, the nymphs are my future and today, instead of Iphigenia's trauma, the Danaids are our present. Because, well, these days, I'm fueled by this beautiful, creative sort of rage, and I just actually don't feel like revisiting the story of a young girl being sacrificed by her selfish, terrible father. Instead, I would much rather share the stories of women who were able to get their revenge on the men who wronged them with the help of their father? Enter today's daring Danaids. It's revenge, but in a fun way, because sometimes myths of murder are fun, goddammit.

• 6:44Liv Albert?

  When women fight back, the daring Danaids who refuse to submit.

• 7:05Liv Albert?

  Today's story begins where another left off. Back in early June, I returned to one of my favorite myths in the episode titled Zeus, Io, and the Founding of Entire Civilizations Based on Women's Trauma. I like my episode titles. You remember that one. Io. She was the nymph goddess who Zeus turned his sights on, and in doing so, the woman was forced into transforming into a cow in a poor attempt to keep Hera off of Zeus's adulterous scent. It didn't work, naturally, because it never works. And so, poor Io was forced to wander the world as a cow being perpetually terrorized by a gadfly that drove her from the Greek

• 7:47Liv Albert?

  mainland north through the wilds of Thrace into Anatolia, down through Western Asia, and the Levant and ending in Egypt. Because recall, the most culturally relevant bit of the Io myth is that it was used by the ancient Greeks to mythologically tie them to the wondrous ancient world of the Egyptians. Because by the time the Greeks were doing anything of relevance, they could already see in Egypt, they were visiting Egypt and viewing the already very ancient pyramids, and, well, I think they were feeling a little insignificant. Naturally, they were in awe of all the Egyptians had accomplished long before the Greeks ever did. And so, the story of Io's wandering and her eventual founding

• 8:32Liv Albert?

  of a dynasty in Egypt was this means of allowing the ancient Greeks to take some credit for the incredible civilization to their south. And so, it is there, in mythologically Greek Egypt, where we find ourselves meeting the Daughters of Danaus, the 50 Danaids. Now, at this time, in the mythical Greek imagination, the king of Egypt was this man called Belis. He was a grandson of Io. That's where we're linking in this whole installation of a Greek dynasty thing. King Belis had two sons, Danaus and Egyptus, each of whom he had installed

• 9:13Liv Albert?

  as leaders in kind of neighboring regions. Danaus became king of Libya, which, remember, is just the Greek name for a large and kind of unclear portion of North Africa. And Egyptus became king of the mythical Arabia, another name with a modern connotation that probably doesn't line up all that much with what the Greeks imagined and what they named back then. Not least because, as you might have imagined, it is also said that Egyptus went on to rename his new kingdom as like, Egypt, which kind of already exists, but also clearly this man is giving him the word, because the word Egypt is based in this Greek word, Egyptus.

• 9:54Liv Albert?

  It's best not to question this all too much. What matters, anyway, is that these two kings each reigned over nearby regions, probably vaguely in the realm of the Arabian Peninsula and North Africa. And each king ended up with an equally mythical volume of children. It's always got to be symbolic some way. Egyptus had 50 sons, and naturally, Danaus has 50 daughters. The children's mothers, we're told, are a little all over the place. I'm going to list them later in a quote. Both Egyptus and Danaus were known to get around, I guess. Relevantly, though, many of the children's mothers are nymphs of the

• 10:35Liv Albert?

  region, right? Because nymphs are, among other things, a way for myths and men to associate themselves with certain regions via water sources, or trees, or what have you. But the girls, the daughters, the so-called Danaids, well, they rarely have their names spoken or written in stories of them. It ends up being so much easier to just call them by their collective patronymic name, the Daughters of Danaus, to simply refer to them as the daughters of their fathers.

• 11:10Liv Albert?

  Gosh, this has been around for a long time.

• 11:14Liv Albert?

  It's just the, the, the men, the patriarchy have found really any way to really hammer in their importance because it is not biologically inherent. And naturally, I hate that these fifty women are only ever referred to as Danaides. And I understand because while there are fifty names, there are also another fifty from a different source, and they're not always the same. It's a whole thing. But I am going to give you at least what I can of the girls' actual names and the names of their mother. This is coming from Pseudo Apollodorus. Like I said, there are a couple of different versions. I'm not going to list you like a hundred different names and tell you which one may or may not.

• 11:58Liv Albert?

  We're gonna go with Apollodorus's.

• 12:29Liv Albert?

  Of the Danaides, Hypernestra was the eldest. She and another girl, Gorgophony, were the daughters of a woman called Elefantis. Otomate, Amimini, Agawe, and Skia were the daughters of an unnamed queen. Hippodemia, Rhodia, Cleopatra, Asteria, Glauca, Hippomedusa, Gorgae, Ifmedusa, and Rhode were the daughters of two Hamadria nymphs, Atlantia and Phoebe. Pyreni, Doriemphartis, Minestra, Evippi, Anaxibia, Nelo were said to be the daughters of an unnamed Ethiopian woman.

• 13:11Liv Albert?

  Cleiti, Stenali, Crisipi were the daughters of Memphis. Otanui, Thiano, Electra, Cleopatra, Eridici, Glaukippi, Anthelia, Cleodore, Evippi, Eratos, Stigne, and Brike were the daughters of a woman called Polixo. Actaya, Podarche, Diocipe, Adite, Oxypete, Pylargae were the daughters of Pyria. Hippodike, Ariante were the daughters of Hersi. Calerike, Ime, Calaino, and Hyperippi were the daughters of Kreno.

• 13:50Liv Albert?

  And for a while, Darius and his fifty daughters lived in their African kingdom, at least mostly peacefully. That is, until, surprise, surprise, the boys start to bicker. Egyptus wanted Darius's kingdom, or maybe Darius wanted Egyptus's kingdom. Frankly, I don't care all that much about what the boys were fighting over. We must simply note for our purposes that there was drama amongst the men. You know how emotional they can be. It must have been their time of the month, you know? Regardless of how the petty infighting among brothers started, it was Darius who felt the inherent danger that could come from such a disagreement.

• 14:32Liv Albert?

  He began to fear his nephews, those fifty sons of Egyptus, both for his own sake and that of his daughters. Fearing the potential violence of these fifty-one angry men, Darius consulted with the goddess Athena and asked for her advice. How could he best protect himself and his daughters? And credit where it's due, because Darius appears to have been concerned enough to be more than willing to give up his African kingdom in his attempts to flee from Egyptus and his sons. Athena recommends Darius build a ship capable of taking him and his daughters away to safety. In the most complete source for this story, the, again, very, very late and very brief

• 15:15Liv Albert?

  Library of Mythology by Pseudo Apollodorus, it's even suggested that Darius's shipbuilding experiment was, at least at some point by some people, to be the mythological origins of shipbuilding. Another Argo, I guess? Like, literally, sometimes it's called the Argo? I don't know if it's meant to be the same boat. Who's to say? As Ap- as Apollodorus puts it, quote, "By the advice of Athena, he built a ship, being the first to do so, and having put his daughters on board, he fled."

• 15:56Liv Albert?

  As they sailed away from their home in North Africa, the fifty young women, girls, really, imagined themselves, at least for a moment, to be safe from the threat their cousins presented. Hypernestra, Gorgophony, Otomate, Amimini, Agawe, Skia, Hippodemia, Rhodia, Cleopatra, Asteria, Glauca, Hippomedusa, Gorgae, Ifmedusa, Rhode, Pyreni, Doriemphartis, Minestra, Evippi, Anaxibia, Nelo, Cleiti, Stenali, Crisipi, Otanui, Thiano, Electra, Cleopatra, Eridici, Glaukippi, Anthelia, Cleodore, Evippi, Eratos, Stigne, Brike,

• 16:35Liv Albert?

  Actaya, Podarche, Diocipe, Adite, Oxypete, Pylargae, Hippodike, Ariante, Calerike, Ime, Calaino, and Hyperippi, with their father, sailed first to the island of Rhodes, where they made thanks to Athena and installed a temple to her in Lindos. From Rhodes, the Danian ship continued on its journey, eventually landing on the Argalid peninsula of the Peloponnese.

• 17:05Liv Albert?

  This story, as I mentioned, survives in very, very fragmentary and minimalist forms. There's a play that features the daughters, Ischylus's Supplience, which naturally I now want to cover soon, but that only elaborates on this, like, very small part of their story. The overarching details, the narrative itself, exists only in what is best and most frustratingly described as point form. I preface this next bit with that because frankly, it's really disappointing to be lacking in any and all details of what comes next in the story.

• 17:37Liv Albert?

  As Apollodorus all too simply puts it, quote, "Thence he came to Argos, and the reigning king, Gelenor, surrendered the kingdom to him. And having made himself master of the country, he named the inhabitants Danai after himself."

• 17:53Liv Albert?

  So yeah, Darius apparently lands in Argos and just has the kingdom, like, handed over to him. Here you go, yours now, like, no big deal. Now, from an etiological perspective, this does make a little bit of sense. And it might be in part why this explanation is so lacking. Because remember, the Homeric names used to describe the people from Greece in the Iliad and the Odyssey? There is not yet a word to describe the culturally and linguistically linked Greek people. The words Helion and Helas will come much later through the help of another etiological myth. But for Homer, there were only two terms used to describe these kinds of collective kingdoms that we now call the Greeks. They were either the Achaeans or the Danians.

• 18:38Liv Albert?

  And so, yes, you guessed it, the term Danians comes from this story of Darius taking over the region of Argos. So for a later mythologist like Apollodorus, a text written during, like, the Roman period, but which describes hordes of earlier mythic origins, there would have been no real need to relay the story of, like, how Darius achieved this kingdom? He would simply need to point out that it happened, and as a result, Homer used the term Danians. But this is not the only etiological story linked to Darius and his daughters either. Because their story is so closely linked to all of these early founding bits of the Greek mainland, it also coincides with Argos's founding mythos.

• 19:24Liv Albert?

  Like Athens, Argos has a myth about how it was that Hera became its founding goddess. And like Athens, it involved an argument with Poseidon and that god's defeat. He was just not fated to lead a country when these goddesses were so obviously natural leaders, just ready-made, biologically ready for this job, unlike silly men. For Argos, when they chose Hera as their patron goddess, it resulted in very emotional Poseidon. Like so many men, he just couldn't seem to keep his emotions in check. And as a result, he just wasn't a very good leader. He made it everyone else's problem.

• 20:06Liv Albert?

  When Argos selected Hera as its patron goddess, Poseidon caused a drought because he was so mad, so triggered. He's so sensitive. Not just any drought, but a very, very serious drought, to the point where when Darius arrives in Argos and takes over, leading its kingdom, it's said to be completely dry, like Argos is a completely waterless place at this time. Which, I suppose, kind of lends itself to the idea that this other king would just up and hand it over to Darius? It's not great if you have absolutely zero water. It's not super conducive to life.

• 20:43Liv Albert?

  But you know, with things not going well for either of these men, like, they should have just really considered letting a woman handle it. Instead, though, as is so often the case, the women of the story are about to solve all of the men's problems, but in doing so, they will end up punished, cursed, and all primarily due to the actions of men.

• 21:01Liv Albert?

  You know, it's something new and different. Before that, though, mass murder. Go, girls, go.

• 21:19Liv Albert?

  This episode is brought to you by Quince. You know the drill. Quince makes elevated, everyday essentials using premium materials like Mongolian cashmere, organic cotton, and premium stretch denim. I have been speaking into a microphone about Quince for a while now, and I have no complaints. I have a bunch of their stuff. I've got a couple cute sweaters that, I mean, it's nearing sweater season, so those will be back in the rotation anytime now. And I have this leather bag that I absolutely love. It's like this braided leather, and I use it like basically every day. Because

• 22:01Liv Albert?

  that's the thing, they have really great basics. Like, they have really great things that you can wear with so many other things. Just the options are endless. And as the weather gets colder, like all the sweaters in my closet, Quince has everything you need to round out your wardrobe, from warm, responsibly sourced down jackets, and cozy cashmere scarves and gloves, to beautiful 14 karat gold jewelry that adds the perfect finishing touch. And of course, everything at Quince is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. They work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen. So you're paying for quality, not brand markup. And if we haven't learned anything in the last 10 years, isn't it just getting rid of the middlemen, you know, making things more affordable?

• 22:46Liv Albert?

  So find the fall pieces you'll reach for most at Quince. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers, or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK, too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was me. Let's talk about myths, baby. It's the best way to support the show.

• 23:12Speaker 02

  Hot flashes, rage crying, forgetting words mid-sent-ten. Yeah, we know. Menopause is a lot. Midi Health gets it. That's why Midi offers virtual healthcare specially tailored to women's needs. Built for women by women. Every symptom, every stage, every question. Visit joinmidi.com to get started today. That's join m-i-d-i dot com. Individual results and coverage varies. Check with your plan for coverage.

• 23:42Speaker 03

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• 24:57Liv Albert?

  Darius and his 50 daughters arrive in Argos, and immediately, the girls go in search of the city's desperately needed water. The nearest river, Inachus, has dried up completely because of Poseidon's emotional outburst. He's feeling a little hysterical. It was that river god who had testified in favor of Hera's rule. With Inachus dry, the girls go in search of any other water sources they might find. And unfortunately, at least one of them, Amimini, ended up searching for water alone. It's not an excuse for what happens next, of course. It's just hard not to wish things had gone differently. As Amimini searched the wild forests surrounding Argos, she happened upon a deer. Amimini

• 25:41Liv Albert?

  had a spear with her, and she took the opportunity and hunted the deer, imagining herself bringing home dinner to share amongst her sisters. So she threw the spear, and in a blink, her very well-aimed hit was not a deer, but a satyr. And gods, no girl wants to find herself anywhere near an angry, emotional satyr. Immediately, this satyr threatens to rape Amimini. He tries, he lunges for her. She fights him off, at least for a moment, until suddenly, this satyr isn't her biggest threat. The goat man froze. In the middle of his assault, his eyes are trained on something behind her. Amimini grows cold. The satyr

• 26:24Liv Albert?

  released her, turned, and fled. And that was when Poseidon appeared before the girl. He imagined himself her savior. "Oh, pretty girl, aren't you lucky I came across you and that lusty satyr?" Amimini knew better. Every girl had heard stories of the god of the sea, a god who was just as violent as his oceanic domain. Apollodorus says that Amimini then "lay with Poseidon," but boy, oh, boy, does that seem inventive. You're trying to tell me that this woman had literally just escaped a violent attempted rape by a satyr, and then she's like, "Oh, but you scary, violent sea god. Yeah, no, I definitely

• 27:05Liv Albert?

  consent to this one, for sure." No. Poseidon raped Amimini famously, before he gifted her, gifted her, with the water that she so badly needed. After the sexual assault, Poseidon led Amimini to the spring of Lerna, and so she was, at least after all of her trauma, able to bring water home for her family. So, Argos has water again, and Amimini's story becomes one of the more famous aspects of all of the Danyad sister lore. This new relationship that she has developed with water sources and springs through this story ends up even connecting her with the Niyad

• 27:48Liv Albert?

  nymphs. And sometimes, Amimini herself becomes described as a Niyad because of this watery experience. So as we'll see very soon, she is unlucky enough to be called a bride twice. A bride of Poseidon, and a bride of, well, we'll get there.

• 28:07Liv Albert?

  Before long, Darius and his daughters in Argos receive visitors from their old lives. The sons of Egyptus sail to Greece, and they land in Argos, presenting themselves to Darius for a kind of truce. They came with a message from their father for their uncle. "Let's lay aside our anger with one another, and as a show of our renewed relationship, let's let the fifty sons of Egyptus take the fifty daughters of Darius as their wives." "Take" being the operative word here. Darius had a bad feeling about his nephew's arrival. He still wasn't over being forced to flee his home and kingdom due to the threat of those exact same men. To the boys' faces, though, he agreed with their plan. The sons

• 28:51Liv Albert?

  of Egyptus were elated at this agreement. They would get just what they wanted. So one by one, the fifty men selected themselves a bride, their very own nymph, ripe for the taking.

• 29:07Liv Albert?

  I'm just going to read this passage from Pseudapolodorus, because for once, it actually strives to name the women whose bodies created the lives that they're otherwise talking about. Slightly repetitive, but we're naming the girls again, and I don't care. "First, they picked out Hypermnestra as the eldest to be the wife of Lincaeus, and Gorgophony to be the wife of Proteus, for Lincaeus and Proteus had been born to Egyptus by a woman of royal blood, Argaphia. But of the rest, Bucyrus and Chelidus, Lycus, and Diphron obtained by lot the daughters that had been born to Darius by Europe, Tuett, Atomati, Amimini, Agawe, and Skia. These daughters were born to Darius by a queen, but Gorgophony

• 29:52Liv Albert?

  and Hypermnestra were born to him by Elefantes. And Istrus got Hippodamia, Chalcidon got Rhodia, Agonore got Cleopatra, Cytus got Asteria, Diocorsetes got Hippodamia, Alcys got Glauke, Alcmenore got Hippomedusa, Hippothous got Gorgae, Eukynore got Iphaomedusa, Hippolitus got Rhode. These ten sons were begotten on an Arabian woman, but the maidens were begotten on Hamadria nymphs, some being daughters of Atlantia and others Phoebe. Agaptolemus got Pyrene, Cercetes got Doriem, Eurydamus got Fartis, Agias got Minestra,

• 30:31Liv Albert?

  Argias got Iwippi, Arcalaus got Anaxibia, Menemachus got Nelo. These seven sons were begotten by a Phoenician woman, and the maidens on an Ethiopian woman. The sons of Egyptus by Tyria got as their wives, without drawing lots the daughters of Darius by Memphis, in virtue of the similarity of their names. Thus, Clytus got Clytis, Stenilus got Stenili, Chrysippus got Chrysipe. The twelve sons of Egyptus by the Niyad nymph Calyadne cast lots for the daughters of Darius by the Niyad nymph Polixo. The sons were Eurylicus, Fantius, Peristhenes, Hermus, Drius, Potemon, Cassius, Lixus, Imbrus, Bromius, Polictor, Cthonius.

• 31:16Liv Albert?

  And the damsels were Atanui, Theano, Electra, Cleopatra, Eurydice, Glaukipe, Amphilia, Cleodore, Iwippi, Eratos, Stigne, and Brike. The sons of Egyptus by Gorgo cast lots for the daughters of Darius by Pyria, and Periphas got Actaia, Aeneas got Podarchi, Egyptus got Diocipe, Menalkis got Edite, Lempus got Oxypete, Irmun got Philargae. The youngest sons of Egyptus were these: Aidas got Hippodoki, Diphron got Adianti. The mother who bore these damsels was Hersi. Pandion got Caladike, Arbalus got Imae, Hyperbius got Calino, Hippocorsetes

• 31:58Liv Albert?

  got Hyperipi. The mother of these men was Hefesten, and the mother of these damsels was Crino."

• 32:07Liv Albert?

  So yeah, you heard it right. A whole slew of these girls were forced to marry their cousins based on how similar their names were. Very cool, totally normal, definitely empathetic, for sure. Also, yeah, there do appear to be at least a couple daughters who have the same name as one another. Just go with it. Still, the marriages had been decided. Each of the 50 girls were handed over to the 50 men and a joint wedding ceremony/ feast was held in their honor. Fortunately, though, their father had always had another idea in mind.

• 32:53Speaker 02

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• 33:23Speaker 01

  Hi, it's Danny Pellegrino from Everything Iconic. 12 celebrities, one Don, and cold hard cash. From the producers of The Traitors comes The Mob, a new Hulu original series. The iconic Parker Posey hosts this unique reality competition show where 12 celebrity contestants shake down in an Italian villa to win a share of up to $250,000. Watch the new Hulu original series, The Mob, premiering October 26th on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+ for bundle subscribers. Terms apply.

• 33:56Speaker 04

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• 34:43Liv Albert?

  Now, you all know I'm not one to give the men in these stories any unnecessary credit. Hell, I often withhold credit that they probably do, because in so many other cases, they're just so terrible. But here, I mean, I don't know, maybe Danias isn't so bad completely always. The king threw a lavish party and the 50 brides and 50 grooms celebrated late into the night. Presumably, there was much wine consumed and the men, they become a bit muddled. Meanwhile, Danias pulled his daughters aside before the feast ever started and shared the details of his plan. His 50 nephews were not some idle threat. He recognized that they could easily overpower him and his guards, maybe even take over

• 35:26Liv Albert?

  the palace and kingdom if they really wanted to. And gods know what would happen to the daughters in that case. Wasn't as though he could just deny them all they wanted and send them on their way. He was outnumbered, it wasn't an option. So instead, Danias proposed to give those men exactly what they'd asked for. They could marry his daughters, and it just so happened that he'd given each of those daughters her own dagger, instructed her to hide it until just the right moment, just when she felt herself in danger, or simply when the time felt right to defend herself. Then she should strike. So that night, after the feasting and the drinking, the 50 husbands went to the bedrooms of their

• 36:03Liv Albert?

  new 50 wives, with the expectation of, one presumes, a traditional wedding night. Instead, they all got stabbed to death. Well, all but one, at least. One by one, the daughters of Danias killed their would-be husbands, their would-be rapists. One by one, the daughters of Danias had the opportunity, unlike so many, nearly all other women, to make their own decisions about their own fates and their own bodies. Gorgophony stabbed Proteus to death, Automate killed Bucyrus, Emimini killed Enchelidas, Agawe killed Lycus, Skia killed

• 36:45Liv Albert?

  Diphron, Hippodemia stabbed Istrus, Rhodia killed Chalcodon, Cleopatra killed Agonore, Asteria killed Cytus, another Hippodemia killed Diocorstes, Glauke killed Alces, Hippomedusa stabbed Alcmenore to death, Gorga did the same to Hippothos, Ifimadusa killed Eucynore, Rhodei killed Hippolitus, Pyrenei killed Agaptolemaus, Doryem Cercates, Fortis killed Eurdamus, Minestra killed Igias, Ewippi killed Argias, Anaximia killed Arcalaus, Nilo killed

• 37:23Liv Albert?

  Minimachus. Next, Clytia killed Clytus and Stenelys Stenalus, Crisipe took out Crispus, Atanoe killed Eurylicus, Theano killed Fantes, Electra killed Peristhenes, another Cleopatra took out Hermes, Eurydice killed Drius, Glaukapi Potamon, Amphilia killed Cisius, Cleodore killed Lycus, another Ewippi killed Imbrus, Erato took out Bromius, Stygne killed Polychtor, and Brike killed Cthonius, Actaya killed Perifas, Podarche killed Aeneas, Diocippe

• 38:03Liv Albert?

  killed Egyptus Jr., Adite killed Menalces, Oxypete killed Lempus, Pylargae killed Idmon, then Hipporike killed Aidas, Adianti killed Diphron, Calorike killed Pandion, Imae killed Arbolas, Calaino killed Hyperbius, and last, but certainly not least, Hyperipi killed Hippocorsetes.

• 38:29Liv Albert?

  Only one of these girls chose not to kill her new husband on their wedding night, and not because she thought the plan itself flawed. The eldest daughter, Hyperminestra, decided to let her husband cousin, Lincaeus, live. She made this decision because presumably, unlike his 49 brothers, when they retired to their bedroom, he respected his bride and her body. And when she told him she was a virgin and wished to stay that way, at least for now, he said, "Okay, that's fine." And so he didn't have to die. Wild, I know. It's almost like men are capable of respecting women when they say no. It's just that an enormous amount of them don't want to do that? They'd just rather ignore the living

• 39:12Liv Albert?

  human person before them because it makes it easier to get what they want? It's a cool system we have here. But lest you think that this story is one where women are allowed to defend themselves and their bodies from the men who seek to violate and dehumanize them, it's not that.

• 39:31Liv Albert?

  When Hyperminestra allows Lincaeus to live, and worse, is determined to live happily as his wife, her father, he takes it poorly. Turns out, he's not that great a guy after all, and surprise, surprise, he was a bit more concerned with how his plan would benefit him rather than his daughters. Because Danias doesn't care that Hyperminestra didn't want to kill her husband. He doesn't care that, as she sees it, Lincaeus did not deserve to die, because, well, it's like, it's kind of fucking things up for Danias that one of his nephews is, like, allowed to still be alive. For a while, he punishes Hyperminestra

• 40:15Liv Albert?

  by locking her up deep in the palace at Argos and just not letting her out? Meanwhile, he goes about his business, trying to get himself out of this pesky murder investigation. He pays them funeral honors, or some of the honors at least, and then he goes in search of purification from the gods. Athena and Hermes just do that, and so Danias is officially forgiven, at least in the eyes of the gods. From there, he appears to have a change of heart, and eventually, he does free Hyperminestra from her imprisonment, and he does reunite her with the only living Egyptid, Lincaeus. They're married, and it seems okay. And the

• 40:58Liv Albert?

  other girls, they do each get to marry guys who win very dramatic athletic competitions. Because naturally, like, one can't live in a world where girls are allowed to remain unmarried. Like, that would be wild. Woo, huh, crazy. Have I mentioned how fun it is that I just live with my best friend and our cats? It's a real bonus if your friend is a divorcee. It adds a lot of spice to the experience. I live my life with a divorcee.

• 41:31Liv Albert?

  Anyways, I highly recommend.

• 41:36Liv Albert?

  In some ways, this is the end of the Danaiad story. We can imagine that, having escaped the forced marriage, the forced assaults, or attempted with the approval of their father, and therefore, like, essentially the only approval that they needed, these young women were allowed, able to live happy lives and have happy marriages, not based in warmongering and forced cousin-loving. So in a perfect world, I think, these 50 women just lived on and passed into the afterlife peacefully, because they were just defending themselves. Unfortunately, alternatively, there are a handful of later, primarily Latin, sources which place the 49 successful Danaides in the underworld for their eternal punishment.

• 42:21Liv Albert?

  "In the same vein as Tantalus' tantalizing and Sisyphus' perpetually rolling boulder." For Ovid and for Virgil, the actions of these women are equivalent to the man who, for no other reason than he felt like it, killed his son and fed him to the gods.

• 42:39Liv Albert?

  Hey, apropos of nothing, did you know that statistically, women serve longer prison sentences when they kill their abusers in self-defense than those abusers do for, like, actually abusing women and children?

• 42:52Liv Albert?

  It's pretty cool.

• 42:55Liv Albert?

  So according to the patriarchal power structure, I mean, Ovid, the Danaides live in eternal punishment. They dedicate that eternity to carrying water forever. While that water perpetually flows out of their amphorae, so it's always achievable and they always have to go back for more.

• 43:13Liv Albert?

  And while I haven't found concrete, concrete proof, I'm pretty damn sure that this Danaiid punishment is the origin of the term carrying water to refer to someone doing another's bidding to serve their interests rather than one's own.

• 43:29Liv Albert?

  It brings to mind how often I've heard the term carrying water for the patriarchy.

• 43:36Liv Albert?

  It's not not relevant.

• 43:53Liv Albert?

  Oh, nerds, thank you so much for listening. I'll be real, I am recording this like when it is already supposed to be fully out and that's more than enough. So just thank you all. This one was really fun and I have a plan to bring you all some more new, new spooky content. There might be a re-air or two as well because I do have, no brag, I do have a Greek group trip next week, the experimental one. But I will also say, because this is experimental one is sort of a one-off, that just FYI, over the next few days, we will be launching the application process for the next group trip.

• 44:38Liv Albert?

  This one that's still to be announced will be in the same vein and with all of the same people and planning and even tour guide as the past few group trips that I have done where listeners have, oh my God, it's been so much fun. Everyone becomes fast friends. It's such a great situation. There are so many stunning places in Greece that we're going to visit. So details to come. Stay tuned. Applications for that are coming soon and the trip will be in September of next year. So you have lots of time. Official news still to come, but all to say, now I'm just rambling because I didn't script this part out. There will be new and probably re-air'd spooky content still to come because I'm going to

• 45:23Liv Albert?

  Greece and I'm really excited and it's been a really long time and, um, oh. Also, peek behind the curtain, this next trip will be the third group trip that I have done and the first time that it won't cost me money, which is pretty chill. Anyway, ramble over, let's talk about Myth Baby is written and produced by me, Liv Albert. Select music is by Luke Chaos. The podcast is part of the Memory Collective Podcast Network where a bunch of us are just trying to do nice things with history because we care about the world and all of its people. Wild, I know. Find more at collectivemem.com. You can listen to this show ad-free and with bonus content at patreon.com/MythBaby. I am back to teaming up with my besties at Ancient History Fangirl for those Patreon episodes.

• 46:08Liv Albert?

  We have two coming this month and oh my gosh, guys, it's fun. It's fun because they're fun and we, gosh, we have a good time. So check that out if you want to contribute to the show and ensure that it keeps going. Or listen with ads. Those are great too. They still pay me, so you should still feel good about, even if you skip the ads, that's fine too, don't worry. Cause down with capitalism, but we gotta live with it while it lasts. I am Liv and I love this shit.

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