KHC 192 - Nico Carrillo

Nico Carrillo - ONE championship world champ, Scottish Muay Thai fighter. He is a WMO Welterweight World Champion and ISKA Muay Thai World 65kg Champion. Join us for a conversation about Nico’s journey from growing up without a father figure to discovering his passion for combat sports. He discusses his early fights, training experiences in Thailand versus more intentional modern methods, and his relentless drive to chase a lasting legacy in fighting while motivating others. Follow Nico: https://www.instagram.com/nicocarrillo_kotn/ Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/ Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com Timestamps: 00:00:00 – Scotland, Football, and How Nico Got into Fighting 00:05:08 – No Male Role Models: Growing up Without a Father 00:10:40 – First Fights & Nico’s Trainer 00:14:54 – How Thailand Trains vs Training with Intention 00:18:46 – Nico’s Belt, Carrying the Rock, and Shooting at the Bow Rack 00:22:35 – Never Finished: Nico’s MMA Goals 00:30:05 – “Fighter Face”, Avoiding the Damage, and UFC Fights 00:34:10 – Talking Smack and Marketing in Fighting 00:38:20 – Muay Thai: Fighting for the Love of Fighting 00:45:25 – Contracts, New Fights, and Endorsements 00:49:30 – Dream Opponents & Training with UFC Fighters 00:53:06 – Ilia Topuria 00:55:16 – Chasing a Legacy and the Inner Drive to Motivate Others 00:59:44 – Training, Nutrition, and Why Nico is so Shredded 01:03:40 – For the Love of Running 01:06:35 – Most Painful Strike, Thai Clinch, and Broken Bones 01:13:57 – F**l, Marry, Kill: Running, Shooting a Bow, Wrestling 01:16:23 – How Ultra Running Prepares Nico for Fighting Mentally 01:20:46 – Balancing Fighting History & Artform with New Knowledge in Training and Recovery 01:27:31 – Be Intentional: Fuel, Water, and Electrolytes for Fights 01:36:46 – Your Body Adapts the Harder You Push it 01:40:24 – No Part Time Savages 01:43:59 – Training to be the Best Version of Yourself Thank you to our sponsors: Sig Sauer: https://www.sigsauer.com/ use code CAM10 for 10% off optics Grizzly Coolers: https://www.grizzlycoolers.com/ use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% off MTN OPS Supplements: https://mtnops.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% off Hoyt: http://bit.ly/3Zdamyv use code CAM for 10% off Black Rifle Coffee: https://www.blackriflecoffee.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 10% your order Montana Knife Company: https://www.montanaknifecompany.com/ Use code CAM for 10% off

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:15Cameron Hanes?

  This is the Keep Hammering Collective. I'm with, now this is gonna be kind of adventure, Nico Carrillo. No?

• 0:23Speaker 01

  Without the yo.

• 0:24Cameron Hanes?

  Nico Carrillo.

• 0:27Speaker 01

  Without the yo, just o, Carrillo.

• 0:30Cameron Hanes?

  Nico Carrillo.

• 0:34Cameron Hanes?

  I don't know. I'm just gonna say Nico.

• 0:37Speaker 01

  Well, you know what? For today, we're Carrillo.

• 0:39Cameron Hanes?

  Okay. All I know is you are badass at Muay Thai. Did I say it right?

• 0:45Speaker 01

  Muay Thai.

• 0:46Cameron Hanes?

  Muay Thai. Yeah, yeah. So that's how I know you. Just from like clips on Instagram. You, all I remember is like, oh, this guy Nico, he's shredded and he's really good at fighting. What else did I miss?

• 1:01Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, I think, I think that's about that. There's not much more going for me apart from that.

• 1:09Cameron Hanes?

  Well, yeah, no, you have, you have a lot going. We're gonna talk about it, but um, what a great day. You are Scottish.

• 1:18Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:18Cameron Hanes?

  Probably maybe the first Scottish person I've ever met.

• 1:21Speaker 01

  Well, I'm happy for that.

• 1:23Cameron Hanes?

  Scotland. Yeah. So it's like, I've never been there. I don't know anything about anything.

• 1:29Speaker 01

  Apart from the movie Braveheart.

• 1:30Cameron Hanes?

  Braveheart and also you guys had kings. We've never had kings.

• 1:35Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:35Cameron Hanes?

  So kings are kind of cool. Like for movies, you gotta have a, it's always good to have a king.

• 1:39Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 1:40Cameron Hanes?

  We don't have kings over here.

• 1:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, we, we fought for our freedom in the 1300s. Um, like Scotland fought for their freedom to, you know, be a separate country from England. And then one day we just gave it all back and now, and now we still have English in.

• 1:58Cameron Hanes?

  Why'd we give it back?

• 1:59Speaker 01

  Oh, no idea.

• 2:01Cameron Hanes?

  After, after Mel Gibson fought for your freedom in Braveheart.

• 2:05Speaker 01

  That's it. And then we just gave it back.

• 2:07Cameron Hanes?

  Sad.

• 2:08Speaker 01

  I know.

• 2:09Cameron Hanes?

  His sacrifice was for nothing.

• 2:11Speaker 01

  Literally.

• 2:13Cameron Hanes?

  So tell me about it. How is it over there? Like, is there rivalries? Like, do you like Conor McGregor? Do you like people from Ireland? Or do you have rivalries?

• 2:23Speaker 01

  No, not really.

• 2:25Cameron Hanes?

  No?

• 2:26Speaker 01

  Um, where I'm from in Glasgow, because of football, soccer, those rivalries. But it's not, it's not to do with like the actual countries. It's to do with football.

• 2:40Cameron Hanes?

  Just a club?

• 2:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:41Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:42Speaker 01

  Um, and it's like, kind of like an Irish and Scottish separation.

• 2:46Cameron Hanes?

  I see.

• 2:46Speaker 01

  Uh, but out with football, not at all.

• 2:50Cameron Hanes?

  Okay, gotcha. Yeah.

• 2:52Speaker 01

  Football's a massive part of life back home.

• 2:55Cameron Hanes?

  For sure. That's the biggest thing, probably.

• 2:57Speaker 01

  Like where I'm from, it's either like, you're either Celtic or Rangers.

• 3:01Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 3:02Speaker 01

  And there's a massive divide between the two.

• 3:05Cameron Hanes?

  I see. Gotcha. Well, how'd you get involved in fighting?

• 3:09Speaker 01

  Uh, just by chance, honestly. Uh, I always played football when I was young.

• 3:14Cameron Hanes?

  Were you good?

• 3:16Speaker 01

  Um, I think so. I think, I think I was good. Um, I can't kick a ball anymore, so that doesn't say too much.

• 3:23Cameron Hanes?

  You can kick somebody's head, though.

• 3:24Speaker 01

  There's a good, uh, a good change. Exactly. I was always good at kicking something.

• 3:30Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 3:31Speaker 01

  And then, as you, as you walked into a gym, my friend actually, my friend Jazz, uh, went to a Muay Thai class.

• 3:39Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 3:40Speaker 01

  And I always played football with him.

• 3:41Cameron Hanes?

  How old was, how old were you at this time?

• 3:43Speaker 01

  Fifteen.

• 3:43Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 3:44Speaker 01

  And it just kind of came at a perfect time. And I walked into this gym and I fell in love with it.

• 3:51Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 3:51Speaker 01

  That day, that I knew that I wanted to do it for the rest of my life.

• 3:56Cameron Hanes?

  Really?

• 3:57Speaker 01

  That, that day, I remember that day like it was yesterday. Um, I remember the smell in the gym. I remember all the people. There was a certain guy who just had a fight and he was icing his shins. And to me, he was famous. And I was like, I want to be like that guy. And that was it. And from there, it, it came at a good time because I was kind of getting bored of football. And so I think just the timing was good.

• 4:19Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 4:19Speaker 01

  And I walked into a Muay Thai gym and that was it. I absolutely fell in love with it.

• 4:24Cameron Hanes?

  What did you do that first day? What did they have you do?

• 4:26Speaker 01

  I don't remember what I'd done. I remember everything else.

• 4:29Cameron Hanes?

  You remember the feeling?

• 4:31Speaker 01

  I remember the feeling and I just, I remember this, this fight. Oh, everybody was like around them because they just fought at the weekend. And I just remember thinking, oh, this guy's famous.

• 4:39Cameron Hanes?

  And he's like, he was banged up, he's hurt a little bit, so he's getting attention. It's like, oh, tell us about your fight probably.

• 4:45Speaker 01

  Exactly. That was exactly it. Um, and that was it.

• 4:49Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 4:50Speaker 01

  And from there, I was in the gym every day and I was just obsessed immediately.

• 4:54Cameron Hanes?

  I wonder if it's like, as a young boy, that's like what you think men are supposed to be like, like supposed to fight, they're supposed to like be badasses.

• 5:03Speaker 01

  Hundred percent. That's always been my thought process, but I still thought like that. I grew up without a father.

• 5:10Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 5:11Speaker 01

  But you know, I still had, I still thought like that at a young age. You know what I mean? So.

• 5:17Cameron Hanes?

  Where was your dad?

• 5:18Speaker 01

  Um, my dad split up from my mum when I was like five.

• 5:24Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 5:25Speaker 01

  Or six, something like that. So I knew him up until that point. And then my dad moved back to Spain.

• 5:32Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 5:33Speaker 01

  And I, I don't know the ins and outs. I was too young to, to know anything. Um, you just hear one side of the story.

• 5:40Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 5:41Speaker 01

  And that was, I, I went with my mum. So that was always the story that I heard.

• 5:45Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 5:46Speaker 01

  And then that, that was it. And I've, I never had a dad after that.

• 5:49Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm. And so did you have like a male role model in your life at all?

• 5:54Speaker 01

  I actually didn't.

• 5:55Cameron Hanes?

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• 6:40Cameron Hanes?

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• 7:24Cameron Hanes?

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• 8:09Cameron Hanes?

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• 8:12Cameron Hanes?

  You were kind of on your own.

• 8:13Speaker 01

  I was on my own and I grew up in a household full of females. I had my mum and two sisters, two older sisters. I had a big cousin who played a kind of role model, but you know what, I wouldn't really say like the perfect role model.

• 8:30Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 8:31Speaker 01

  He's my best friend now, but at the time probably wasn't a perfect role model for me. So it's probably something that I am proud of that I got into all, because you know, when we played football when we were younger, you know, we'd had all the, all my teammates all had their dads.

• 8:49Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 8:49Speaker 01

  At the sidelines.

• 8:50Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 8:50Speaker 01

  And I was the only kid that never had parents there.

• 8:56Speaker 01

  And so one thing that I'm proud about is that I done all this, not because of a male influence. I just done it off my own back.

• 9:05Cameron Hanes?

  On your own.

• 9:06Speaker 01

  I decided to do it. So it's something that I'm proud that I done.

• 9:10Cameron Hanes?

  That is, because normally it takes, like all those kids with their dads there, their dads are kind of pushing them.

• 9:15Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 9:16Cameron Hanes?

  You can do it, you can be, got to work harder or whatever. You're, you're, they're kind of setting the standard, but you had to set the standard yourself. What, what, what, I mean, how'd you do that? What was in you that as a young, young boy that had this, this mindset to be like, no, this is what I need to dedicate myself to?

• 9:37Speaker 01

  I think it was, number one, it was, I was very competitive. I loved sports, all sports. I loved football, I loved boxing, I done a little bit of boxing when I was younger. I just loved being competitive. Whenever it was like sports days in school, I was like the tryhard. I just loved sports.

• 9:53Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 9:54Speaker 01

  That was probably one part of it that was just ingrained in my DNA. I was competitive. The other part was probably.

• 10:02Speaker 01

  The, the culture of where I was brought up was very rough and very like if it's like a one-way road and it's not a good road to go down. And I seen the effect it had on the older generation and at a young age I could see this. And so I kinda thought that if I remain here and do the same things that they've always done, this is going to be the path for me also.

• 10:28Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 10:29Speaker 01

  So at a young age, I was wise enough to just kinda know that I had to go another way.

• 10:36Cameron Hanes?

  Mm-hmm. Yeah, that was, that's insightful. Um, so you started training every, was every day you started training or?

• 10:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:43Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. And then what happened there? How was that progression? When did you have a fight?

• 10:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I actually had my first fight two months after I walked in the gym.

• 10:55Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 10:56Speaker 01

  And it was like amateur, or we call it junior. So it's like under sixteen. So you're wearing the full pads, et cetera. And I got put into the Scottish Open, which was a Scottish Muay Thai tournament. And it was kinda like last man standing. So you go into like a weight category and if you win the fight, you get put through to the next and you just have a bunch of fights that day. I had a bunch of fights that day and I won all the fights.

• 11:20Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 11:21Speaker 01

  And, and I became the, a Scottish junior champion.

• 11:23Cameron Hanes?

  Whoa.

• 11:24Speaker 01

  On my first ever fights.

• 11:25Cameron Hanes?

  After two months?

• 11:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:26Cameron Hanes?

  Why, why were you so good, do you think?

• 11:28Speaker 01

  You know, honestly, you wouldn't class me as good if you seen the fights.

• 11:32Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 11:32Speaker 01

  I maybe just had a little bit of dog in me back then, but oh my God, it definitely wasn't Muay Thai I was fighting.

• 11:38Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 11:39Speaker 01

  I don't know what it was. But I still managed to win. So that's, that's all that matters.

• 11:43Cameron Hanes?

  It was based on Muay Thai?

• 11:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, based on Muay Thai, the philosophy of Muay Thai. And then from there, I had an amateur fight. No, from there, my next fight after that, I think I had just a fight that I won pretty easy. Then I had one more amateur fight and I ended up getting put against a UK number one at amateur. And this is my third, fourth fight.

• 12:05Cameron Hanes?

  Whoa.

• 12:05Speaker 01

  And I drew with him.

• 12:06Cameron Hanes?

  Really?

• 12:07Speaker 01

  Yeah. And this was like in the space of six months, seven months.

• 12:10Cameron Hanes?

  So you're still only fifteen?

• 12:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:13Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, man.

• 12:13Speaker 01

  And then one year after.

• 12:18Speaker 01

  Training Muay Thai, one full year, the day that I started in the summer, one year later, I went to Thailand. And so one year later, I started fighting professional Muay Thai.

• 12:28Cameron Hanes?

  And you were 16?

• 12:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:30Cameron Hanes?

  And you went to Thailand?

• 12:31Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 12:31Cameron Hanes?

  Whoa.

• 12:32Speaker 01

  Just me and my trainer.

• 12:34Cameron Hanes?

  Really?

• 12:34Speaker 01

  My trainer, just me and him, yeah.

• 12:36Cameron Hanes?

  Is it the same trainer in the videos that I see?

• 12:38Speaker 01

  Yep, same guy.

• 12:38Cameron Hanes?

  That skinny guy? He seems tough though.

• 12:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:42Cameron Hanes?

  Is he, is, he's skinny, right?

• 12:43Speaker 01

  He is skinny. He's very skinny. We, we all got on him for that. And he needs to, he needs to have a few more protein shakes.

• 12:50Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I know. What's up?

• 12:51Speaker 01

  He's, he's a deceivingly strong.

• 12:54Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 12:54Speaker 01

  I'll give him props for that.

• 12:55Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 12:56Speaker 01

  J P, get on the protein shakes.

• 12:58Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, come on. Yeah, protein shakes. Yeah, no, he's a, he seems like a great coach though. I mean, you must be very comfortable with him too.

• 13:08Speaker 01

  Absolutely. So.

• 13:10Cameron Hanes?

  Is he older?

• 13:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, only two years.

• 13:13Cameron Hanes?

  So he was 18 and you were 16 and you guys go to Thailand?

• 13:16Speaker 01

  We went across the world ourselves.

• 13:18Cameron Hanes?

  Wow.

• 13:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was amazing.

• 13:20Cameron Hanes?

  Where'd the money come from to do that?

• 13:21Speaker 01

  Um, so my granny and my mum put, sent me over.

• 13:26Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, okay.

• 13:27Speaker 01

  And then I think with him, it was his dad or, or something like that.

• 13:30Cameron Hanes?

  And then how'd that trip go?

• 13:32Speaker 01

  Amazing. So good. I, I feel like, yeah, you're, you're 15, 16 year olds, you're at the other side of the world, no parents, no rules, no, it's just like a,

• 13:43Speaker 01

  a law free country. It's just, Thailand's crazy, especially at that age. So everything's just like, oh my God, this is, this is insane.

• 13:49Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 13:50Speaker 01

  But a week after I got there, I had my first fight.

• 13:53Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 13:54Speaker 01

  And I won. And you know, it was going to Thailand at that age that really progressed me as a fighter. So I came back from Thailand two months later and all these adults in the gym, I just started like, I was able to ragdoll them. I was just, I, I just became far superior at such a young age.

• 14:12Cameron Hanes?

  And what was it? How, why do you think that was? It was like more reps over there? Cause all you're doing is training or just different training?

• 14:19Speaker 01

  It's definitely.

• 14:22Speaker 01

  Both, it's definitely a bit of both. You're training Muay Thai twice a day. But it's just the level and the intensity and who you're surrounded with. So the gym that we went to at the time, it was like all Thai champions.

• 14:37Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 14:37Speaker 01

  And these are the guys that I'm in training with. So it's sink or swim.

• 14:40Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 14:40Speaker 01

  And obviously, the sinking isn't an option.

• 14:44Cameron Hanes?

  And if you don't sink, you're gonna get better.

• 14:45Speaker 01

  Exactly. And that was it. And so I was getting ragdolled off these guys and through that, I got better.

• 14:52Cameron Hanes?

  Did, did you, I'm just curious, do they train a lot harder there than back home?

• 14:59Speaker 01

  At the time, probably. Now, I don't believe so. I believe that the Western world, so Thailand are very stuck in their ways. They have a set way they do things and that's it. They run in the morning, they hit the bag, they come in and they'll run again in the afternoon. Then they come in and they clinch and they hit pads and they do boxing, sparring and but, and they overtrain. They completely overtrain and you know, the Thais don't, they don't love training. Whereas like the Westerners, they do it because they have to. The Westerners, we do it because we choose to do it.

• 15:37Cameron Hanes?

  We want to, yeah.

• 15:38Speaker 01

  We want to do it and that's the difference.

• 15:40Cameron Hanes?

  They have to to make money to provide for their family.

• 15:43Speaker 01

  Exactly. And like the Westerners, like we choose to do this. So like, we do it the right way now, I believe. Like, we don't, like, me personally, I'm all for like sport science and like nutrition, recovery, not overtraining, listening to your body when it's time to listen to your body. Thais just like, every day, they don't get days off, they just, they just, and you know what happens then is that you just go through the motions.

• 16:13Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 16:13Speaker 01

  You're just.

• 16:14Cameron Hanes?

  They're not intentional.

• 16:15Speaker 01

  You're not intentional, you're just like a robot. Whereas like the Westerners, like we choose to do this. So it's like, everything we do is with intention. And that's why now, like, I feel like the Westerners are, I won't say far superior, but I'd say we're getting there.

• 16:30Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah. Just, it's a more well thought out approach to training.

• 16:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:35Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, instead of just volume and reps. I was watching, I think, I think it was Khalil Roundtree.

• 16:44Cameron Hanes?

  I think he was going over there and I think when he first went over there, I don't know where he was training. You probably do, but he said he couldn't keep up with the level of training they were doing.

• 16:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:55Cameron Hanes?

  Like it was just so intense.

• 16:56Speaker 01

  It's insane.

• 16:57Cameron Hanes?

  It's like just every day and he said he just like, I can't do this.

• 17:01Speaker 01

  It's insane. And the thing is with like ties is they're not super explosive. And like with myself or maybe other Westerners is like, we put so much into one session. And then it's like hard to do that every single day, twice a day on repeat. Whereas the ties kind of aren't that intentional.

• 17:20Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 17:20Speaker 01

  Just because they go through the motions, they kind of just get by. But you know, like, like there isn't a.

• 17:27Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, it'd be like, you know, to get the stimulus for a fast marathon, the new, you get on the track. You have to intensity, you have to train harder than you run the marathon, right? So you have to, if you're just going through the motions, you're stagnant. So it reminds me of that. It's just like, you have to push harder than, as sometimes to get that growth. You can't just show up.

• 17:47Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 17:48Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 17:48Speaker 01

  And that's to answer the question is that's why I feel like the Westerners are definitely.

• 17:53Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm. Yeah.

• 17:54Speaker 01

  It's just like evolving, evolving with the sport. Like we've got like 10 years ago, we didn't have all the sports science and nutrition and just all the things that are fingertips now that we have.

• 18:03Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 18:04Speaker 01

  Why wouldn't we use it?

• 18:05Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 18:05Speaker 01

  Know what I mean? So that's.

• 18:07Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 18:07Speaker 01

  You just need to evolve with times.

• 18:09Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I feel like there's so much knowledge out there now. If you, of course, we're going to train hard. We're going to train smart, but then if you also like take advantage of all the science and the, the new, new information out there. Wow.

• 18:25Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 18:25Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, is.

• 18:27Speaker 01

  It's a privilege to have it now.

• 18:28Cameron Hanes?

  It is. Yeah.

• 18:29Speaker 01

  Because like the people that I looked up to when I was a young guy, they didn't have this. So it's like, you, you can't not level up.

• 18:37Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, it's a.

• 18:39Speaker 01

  But you must put in the hard work also.

• 18:40Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, for sure. It takes everything. It takes all you've got and more. So it probably, it doesn't seem like it's a surprise then, if you had all the success at 15, coming in in two months, going to Thailand after, you know, a year. It's not a surprise that you're champion now, right? I mean, so are you, to me, it feels like you're almost a, uh, what is that when somebody's born to do it? What's it called?

• 19:09Cameron Hanes?

  A what?

• 19:10Speaker 01

  No, it's a name.

• 19:11Cameron Hanes?

  It's like a.

• 19:14Cameron Hanes?

  You know, like, if they're just gifted, they're.

• 19:18Speaker 01

  I wouldn't say so.

• 19:19Cameron Hanes?

  No.

• 19:20Speaker 01

  For me, anyway.

• 19:21Cameron Hanes?

  It seems like, uh, God, like a savant, kinda. Do you know what that is?

• 19:26Speaker 01

  No.

• 19:26Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, but it's just like, you're born to fight. This is what you were born to do. It seems like with that success, you were just like, this is.

• 19:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was, I maybe believe I was born to fight.

• 19:37Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 19:38Speaker 01

  Was I born to be a champion? Champions are forged.

• 19:42Cameron Hanes?

  Okay, gotcha.

• 19:42Speaker 01

  I don't believe champions are born.

• 19:44Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 19:44Speaker 01

  You know what I mean, champions are forged.

• 19:45Cameron Hanes?

  You could have had all the talent in the world, but if you don't put the work in.

• 19:49Speaker 01

  Well, when hard, hard work works.

• 19:53Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 19:53Speaker 01

  When talent sleeps.

• 19:54Cameron Hanes?

  Right, that's right, yeah.

• 19:56Speaker 01

  So hard work always wins.

• 19:57Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 19:57Speaker 01

  It doesn't matter how technically good you are, doesn't matter, the valiant one always wins, the person who's willing to endure.

• 20:04Cameron Hanes?

  What, uh, is true. I mean, it's a hundred percent true. So, but you're still so young and you are champion now. It's just like, where does this path go? What's, what's the goal?

• 20:15Speaker 01

  You know.

• 20:17Cameron Hanes?

  Where's the belt too? I don't, how come, did you bring that belt with you?

• 20:20Speaker 01

  I didn't, I didn't. I wish you did ask. I'd have brought it if you asked. Well, can I tell you something about the belt?

• 20:26Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 20:26Speaker 01

  It's heavy.

• 20:27Cameron Hanes?

  Is it?

• 20:28Speaker 01

  Extremely heavy.

• 20:29Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 20:29Speaker 01

  So after the, after the, I won the belt, I went to Australia and done a little tour and I carried it with me.

• 20:35Cameron Hanes?

  Ah.

• 20:36Speaker 01

  And I decided there that I'll never take it anywhere else again.

• 20:39Cameron Hanes?

  So do you wish you weren't champion?

• 20:40Speaker 01

  That was like The Rock.

• 20:41Cameron Hanes?

  You wish you weren't, if you weren't champion.

• 20:43Speaker 01

  I'm not saying that, I'm not saying that.

• 20:44Cameron Hanes?

  Then you wouldn't have to mess with it. You wouldn't have to carry it anywhere.

• 20:47Speaker 01

  I swear to God, The Rock is easier to carry than that belt around an airport, I'm telling you.

• 20:53Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, so tell, tell me about The Rock. How was that?

• 20:56Speaker 01

  Oh, fun, humbling, humbling experience.

• 20:59Cameron Hanes?

  You did great.

• 21:00Speaker 01

  But I didn't come in with any expectations, I didn't come in to break any records. I just wanted to come out and have, and it was a beautiful day.

• 21:07Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, it was. Your, your attitude is so, so good. Cause I asked you, I said, was it harder or easier? And you're just like, wasn't, just is what it is.

• 21:15Speaker 01

  It just is.

• 21:16Cameron Hanes?

  Take it as it comes. Yeah, no, I love that. Um, and then also you shot your bow. How was that?

• 21:22Speaker 01

  That was amazing. That was super fun. I've got a nice little, I don't know if the camera can see this.

• 21:26Cameron Hanes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 21:27Speaker 01

  Like a hematoma coming out my arm.

• 21:29Cameron Hanes?

  I think we call that a string kiss.

• 21:31Speaker 01

  Oh, a string kiss. Not a hematoma then.

• 21:35Cameron Hanes?

  No, but you ended up, that happens. Sometimes people get too deep in with that, on that grip, and then that forearm's in the way of the string, but.

• 21:42Speaker 01

  But it was amazing and.

• 21:43Cameron Hanes?

  You shot great.

• 21:44Speaker 01

  I shot the ones that mattered.

• 21:45Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 21:46Speaker 01

  Oh, no, that was the first time I held the bow.

• 21:47Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, no, from your first time, you shot great.

• 21:50Speaker 01

  So.

• 21:50Cameron Hanes?

  So I don't even know when you hit that, since you, you.

• 21:53Speaker 01

  I think I was after that.

• 21:54Cameron Hanes?

  You shot perfect.

• 21:55Speaker 01

  I think I hit into something.

• 21:57Cameron Hanes?

  I think it was from the rock.

• 21:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, the rock.

• 22:00Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, so shooting, shooting a bow was fun, and now you're gonna have your own bow back there. You can't hunt.

• 22:05Speaker 01

  I can't hunt, no.

• 22:07Cameron Hanes?

  But maybe we'll, maybe we'll get the law changed. We can work on that back there.

• 22:13Cameron Hanes?

  Do you have a, also, check this out. Get this. I got trading cards. This is sick. And does it have your stats on the back?

• 22:23Speaker 01

  No, I think they just have like a little blurb about that.

• 22:25Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. But so these are going in the studio here. Now I got some special gifts with my other special gifts. So that's cool. So what's the, from Champion Right Now, what's your goal? What, where are we headed with this?

• 22:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, I just love, you know, Goggins' book, Never Finished.

• 22:45Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 22:45Speaker 01

  That's my answer to that.

• 22:47Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 22:48Speaker 01

  Never finished. I believe that too many people fall off once they reach a, a huge like milestone, like a huge goal.

• 22:58Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 22:58Speaker 01

  They get there.

• 22:59Cameron Hanes?

  Take their foot off the gas.

• 23:00Speaker 01

  Yes, and they get comfortable and they fall off and disaster starts from there. For me, I knew I was gonna get this belt. I didn't know when, but I knew I was gonna get it. But I also knew, once I got it, that there's gonna be so much more. Defend the belt for a start. And then from there, I'm sure a lot of people know now is, I want to go down an MMA route. I want to find a new discipline. I want to, I want to be the best at something else now. And, and that's it. And you know, when I retire from fighting, I'll, I'll, I'll try win some races. Maybe come out here and do a Coca Dona.

• 23:37Cameron Hanes?

  Let's do it.

• 23:37Speaker 01

  But that, that is my mindset, though.

• 23:39Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 23:39Speaker 01

  It is never finished.

• 23:40Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 23:40Speaker 01

  You just, once you take something off, amazing, brilliant, it's in the past, though. Let's, let's do something.

• 23:45Cameron Hanes?

  Yes, 100%. New challenges. Have you, have you announced you're doing the MMA thing?

• 23:51Speaker 01

  I mean, not really announced it.

• 23:55Speaker 01

  People have seen my social media, they've seen that I've been doing wrestling and grappling and stuff.

• 23:59Cameron Hanes?

  They're probably ask questions, yeah.

• 24:01Speaker 01

  And yes, I will fight MMA.

• 24:04Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm. When do you think?

• 24:07Speaker 01

  That's the, that's, that's the one, isn't it? That's the question. If I had the choice, I would fight MMA the end of this year.

• 24:15Cameron Hanes?

  Really?

• 24:16Speaker 01

  But Rome wasn't built in a day.

• 24:18Cameron Hanes?

  No, for sure.

• 24:21Speaker 01

  Obviously, if I go into MMA, I've already got a massive price on my head. You know what I mean? I came in as a champion, so people already want to kill me.

• 24:30Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 24:30Speaker 01

  So we'll make sure that we're ready and we won't rush anything.

• 24:34Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I like that. But I do think that, I mean, you are a star. You're a star in, in your discipline now. UFC needs stars. You're marketable. You got the look. You're shredded. You're a champion. So easy to sell, dude. You are so easy to sell. I mean, that's, UFC needs that. That's, that's why people watch.

• 24:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, maybe, maybe I need to move to the US.

• 25:02Cameron Hanes?

  I don't know. I mean, I think there's, I think you got a lot of potential. I don't know how marketing and business work when you're not in the US. I know the US is good. We love sports, you know?

• 25:12Speaker 01

  I feel like it's definitely, definitely easier for sponsorships and things like that if you're, you're, you're based over here. I would say that the, obviously, I'm with one in the Asian market. I would say it's definitely more difficult over there. Cause they want their own, you know what I mean? They want the ties and the Japanese. That's who they want to.

• 25:35Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, succeed.

• 25:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, on their brand. So it's definitely more difficult, but.

• 25:39Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, cause I see, you know, UFC, they tried, they, I mean, they tried to branch out into those markets, but anytime they go into the market, it's, it's always those fighters. Like if they go to Dubai, it's always.

• 25:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, they'll have lots of Arabs on the show.

• 25:55Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, Middle Eastern guys. And so it's like, I, that makes sense that you're saying that they only care about, like the Asians only care about their fighters, you know? So it is harder to build a brand over there, I bet. But like UFC, they establish it here. It's giant here. And then they want to get a little bit bigger in these other markets. But yeah, I think that US. It feels like is the key to like a lot of marketing.

• 26:20Speaker 01

  At 100, excuse me, at 100% is I feel like once you're mainstream in the US, you're mainstream.

• 26:27Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 26:28Speaker 01

  Like you're known.

• 26:28Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Or I mean, that that seems like it's about right. If you haven't already noticed, I'm pretty into routine. I lift, run and shoot every day and I usually stick to three meals. Big portions, elk meat and potatoes kind of guy. I'm not someone who's constantly fueling throughout the day unless it's coffee or an energy drink. And that's just how I've always operated. But since Mountain Ops sent me their new big sticks, I found myself reaching for something between meals a lot more. I started throwing a couple in my truck to have after a long run at Piska or Spencer's. And I'll be honest, they actually taste pretty good, which isn't something I usually say about meat sticks.

• 27:07Cameron Hanes?

  They're made with whole muscle beef and pork, so the texture and flavor feel like real food, not something overly processed. Each stick has 20 grams of protein and it's a big one at 2.2 ounces. So when you've been putting in miles, climbing and grinding all day, it actually gives you something back. It's not just a quick bite. It's real fuel that holds you over and helps you recover. I still eat the same way I always have and nothing is replacing that. But when I need something quick that still lines up with how I live and train, this is what I reach for. Mountain Ops Big Stick. Get 20% off today using code CAM at mountainops.com.

• 27:49Cameron Hanes?

  I've been shooting Hoyt for over 20 years now and they're a lifetime partner of mine. That's not something I take lightly. I stay with partners that prove themselves and Hoyt continues to do that year after year. They shattered the industry standards and built the AX90, the first 90 pound bow to exist and be offered to consumers. Why? Because they have pioneered more advancements in archery than any other company of their time. That's why I work with them because they are the best. For me, I want the most energy I can shoot in a bow. I want a heavy arrow hitting hard. To do that, I like to shoot 90 pounds.

• 28:30Cameron Hanes?

  I shoot a 90 pound bow because I want a hard hitting arrow delivered with enough force to push through, say a rib or the edge of a shoulder blade, because it's bow hunting. Not every shot is going to be perfect. But when the animal reacts, or maybe I don't make the most perfect shot, I still want to deliver a lethal arrow and a 90 pound bow gives me more room for error. If you shoot 60 and I shoot 90, I will kill every animal you will kill at 60 pounds, but you won't kill every animal I will at 90. That's just the way it goes. That's why I shoot the most poundage I can, and for me, that's a 90 pound bow. You can't pull 90? Don't worry. Most people can't.

• 29:15Cameron Hanes?

  Hoyt makes bows for hunters at all levels and they're all the best on the market. Hoyt will never rest on their laurels and bring subpar products to the market. And that's why I love working with them. The 90 pound bow to multiple iterations. And while I was impatient, they were not. They wanted it perfected. That's who they are, and that tells you a lot about the people working there. Unfortunately, they don't offer discounts on bows, but if you want to grab some Hoyt merch or selected accessories, you can use my code CAM for 20% off. If you're serious about archery and you want something you can rely on, shoot a Hoyt. Go find one at your local dealer, just like the bow rack here down the street from me,

• 29:58Cameron Hanes?

  and try it for yourself. Get serious, get Hoyt, and keep hammering. I was just thinking about something else too. So I've watched some of your fights, not all of them, but I've never seen you, like, and I said this morning when we went to breakfast, your face is like perfect. Like, you're not, don't look like a fighter face. And it reminds me of, uh, I, I was always blown away by Khabib. 29 and 0, I never saw him bleed. Did you ever see him bleed?

• 30:30Speaker 01

  Now that you say it, I don't think so, but it's because he was always shooting.

• 30:35Cameron Hanes?

  How do you fight 29 professional guys and never get caught?

• 30:40Speaker 01

  Just an outlier.

• 30:42Cameron Hanes?

  But you remind me of that because you're, somehow you avoid that damage.

• 30:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. Unfortunately, I have been cut. I've got a little cut above the heel.

• 30:51Cameron Hanes?

  I see a little baby little thing.

• 30:53Speaker 01

  It's small. I'm grateful.

• 30:55Cameron Hanes?

  Probably, probably bled a lot.

• 30:56Speaker 01

  It did. I've had bigger cuts in my arm.

• 31:01Cameron Hanes?

  From elbows? Like throwing elbows?

• 31:03Speaker 01

  No, just in general.

• 31:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, so the cuts I've had have been not too bad. I've not broke my nose or broke any bo- I broke my hand in fights, but the thing people look at my face, I've not took a lot of damage to the face, touch wood. Long may that continue.

• 31:23Cameron Hanes?

  I understand, yeah. But yeah, wasn't it amazing how Khabib could do that for so long and how, I mean, it just blows me away.

• 31:30Speaker 01

  That's where you get all, obviously, the goat conversations and he just fits right in there. But it's like, what we're talking about earlier on, on the hill, what he's amazing at, he just goes straight to that grappling. He isn't trying to mess about, standing up, fight people. He's just like, I know where I'm the king, that's where I'm going to take you. And that's what he does in all his fights. He just grapples people to death.

• 31:51Cameron Hanes?

  He dictates where the fight's gonna happen. Yeah, it's always up to him.

• 31:56Speaker 01

  You know, actually, one fighter that gave him a really hard time up until that was McGregor.

• 32:01Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 32:02Speaker 01

  I would say McGregor was probably winning that fight.

• 32:04Cameron Hanes?

  He, I know he won a round or?

• 32:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think he won two rounds.

• 32:08Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I mean, he, he did, Khabib did land that one pu- I mean, I was kind of shocked, he landed that one, knocked McGregor back.

• 32:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, the overhand right, overhand left, wasn't it, or something? But McGregor actually fought a really great fight.

• 32:21Cameron Hanes?

  He did.

• 32:22Speaker 01

  But then, obviously, once you're on the ground, we could be, but the guy wrestles bears.

• 32:26Cameron Hanes?

  I know. What are you gonna do? What are you gonna do?

• 32:28Speaker 01

  You shoot them, this guy wrestles them.

• 32:30Cameron Hanes?

  I know. Crazy. Yeah, it's a, I was at that fight and that was just nuts.

• 32:36Speaker 01

  Oh, you were there? So you seen the big breakout after it?

• 32:38Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, it was like, it was crazy.

• 32:40Speaker 01

  Insane.

• 32:41Cameron Hanes?

  It was, it was crazy. But the, just the environment, dude, it was, there's not, have you been to a live UFC?

• 32:50Speaker 01

  I've not been to a UFC. I've not been to a UFC.

• 32:53Cameron Hanes?

  It's, yeah, I mean, I, I mean, your fights are amazing, electric.

• 32:59Cameron Hanes?

  It's like when Connor was fighting, or even when Rhonda was fighting, their, or Spiderman, Spider, Anderson Spider Silva, like those entrances.

• 33:09Speaker 01

  Goosebumps, insane.

• 33:11Cameron Hanes?

  Crazy, everybody's so hyped.

• 33:14Speaker 01

  You know what entrance was amazing? Alexander Volkanovski just fought his title fight in his home hometown in Sydney.

• 33:23Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, yeah.

• 33:23Speaker 01

  And that was amazing. I've watched the video so many times of him just walking out.

• 33:27Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 33:28Speaker 01

  I watched that more than I watched the fight.

• 33:29Cameron Hanes?

  I love.

• 33:30Speaker 01

  You get like goosebumps.

• 33:31Cameron Hanes?

  I love that stuff.

• 33:32Speaker 01

  McGregor's was iconic.

• 33:33Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 33:34Speaker 01

  That was so good.

• 33:35Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, I, and you know, I miss that magic, like when he was at his pinnacle and winning and like on the mics, it was so good. It's, you don't, I mean, you appreciate when it's there, but when it's gone, you're just like, wow.

• 33:50Speaker 01

  The UFC is definitely where it is today, single-handedly because of him, I would say. Like, he, he brought UFC proper mainstream.

• 34:03Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 34:04Speaker 01

  Like him alone.

• 34:05Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 34:06Speaker 01

  He's just, a star like that comes once in a lifetime.

• 34:11Cameron Hanes?

  How are you at talking smack?

• 34:12Speaker 01

  I can, I can talk smack.

• 34:13Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah?

• 34:14Speaker 01

  I can talk smack if I have to. See, I, I done that a lot in my younger career.

• 34:18Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 34:19Speaker 01

  Once I signed with One Championship, it, it's not like I changed or anything. The market over there, they don't really like it.

• 34:28Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 34:29Speaker 01

  It's just, which, which for me is, I, I, I don't love that because, you know, for me, however you are, just that's the way you are. Be authentic the full time. With One over there in that market, it was like, because Muay Thai is such a respected sport.

• 34:46Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 34:47Speaker 01

  So we don't have to talk smack. At the end of the day, Saturday night, we're both going to go and punch each other's brains out. So there doesn't have to be all this animosity before it. A lot of fights, like my last fight, my championship fight with Shadow.

• 35:04Speaker 01

  I was walking by him, we sit and talk to each other, we shake hands. There was a part where I was walking into a shop and he was out eating and he was like, Nico, come eat, come eat with me. You know what I mean? It's just like, at the end of the day, all the stuff before it doesn't matter. Cause on fight night, we're both gonna do the same thing.

• 35:21Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 35:22Speaker 01

  So over there, they don't really like, and it's because of how much of a a standard for respect there is in Muay Thai, is a very respected sport. Like, it's always been like that.

• 35:34Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 35:34Speaker 01

  And so that's kind of a buy. I don't, I don't really.

• 35:39Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, martial arts is supposed to be similar.

• 35:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 35:42Cameron Hanes?

  But it's, I think what changed it is.

• 35:45Speaker 01

  Conor McGregor.

• 35:47Cameron Hanes?

  Well, Conor, but UFC loved it because they had to sell pay-per-views.

• 35:51Speaker 01

  Oh, that and that did.

• 35:53Cameron Hanes?

  You know, and now since they're on Paramount, they don't need to sell pay-per-views. So you don't have to quote, sell a fight anymore.

• 35:59Speaker 01

  Ah, exactly.

• 35:59Cameron Hanes?

  You know what I mean? I think you could sell a fight and it's gonna, you might get a better payday, you know, like the show and the win is probably gonna be better.

• 36:07Speaker 01

  And like even just like the, like your socials.

• 36:10Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 36:11Speaker 01

  Kind of things like that.

• 36:12Cameron Hanes?

  So it's, they're still, it's still useful, but not like when, you know, they used to wanna sell, you know, how, two million pay-per-views. That takes somebody good on the mic and it takes a villain and a good guy.

• 36:24Speaker 01

  It was like when McGregor fought Mayweather, like they'd done a full tour.

• 36:28Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, like four different cities or something like that.

• 36:31Speaker 01

  More than that.

• 36:31Cameron Hanes?

  Six, 10, I don't know why.

• 36:33Speaker 01

  It was crazy. I mean, like they were in a different city doing the same thing, just smack talking each other on the.

• 36:37Cameron Hanes?

  Everyone watched that fight.

• 36:39Speaker 01

  Oh, crazy.

• 36:40Cameron Hanes?

  Everyone.

• 36:40Speaker 01

  What was it? I think Floyd Mayweather got paid 300 mil for that.

• 36:44Cameron Hanes?

  Something.

• 36:45Speaker 01

  And Conor got 100 mil.

• 36:46Cameron Hanes?

  Like a hundred, yeah.

• 36:47Speaker 01

  Crazy.

• 36:47Cameron Hanes?

  I mean.

• 36:48Speaker 01

  Insane.

• 36:49Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, so it's, but it's, it's just weird how, you know, see in America, it feels like we like the, the confident smack talker, right? But in martial arts, which we still do in UFC here, but I understand like where, you know, like where you're from, it is the respect is. Is bigger than talking shit.

• 37:11Speaker 01

  You get up like you can do it. I just the ties don't. So for example, like last week or two weeks ago, I put up a picture of me and my last fight. And you know how like we just have like sayings like, which one of these fools want it next?

• 37:26Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 37:27Speaker 01

  I don't actually mean that he's a fool or something, right? I just, I just put the caption is what one of these fools want it next?

• 37:34Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 37:34Speaker 01

  And the amount of hate I got from the

• 37:36Cameron Hanes?

  Just from that?

• 37:37Speaker 01

  From the ties. Like there was obviously mistranslations and stuff and they're like, are you saying Shadow is a fool? Why are you disrespecting it? And it was like hundreds of comments. I just deleted the picture. I was like,

• 37:48Cameron Hanes?

  Not worth it.

• 37:49Speaker 01

  Oh my God, not even worth it. That wasn't, that isn't what I meant.

• 37:51Cameron Hanes?

  They're missing the whole point. Yeah.

• 37:53Speaker 01

  So it's like, it's just crazy.

• 37:55Cameron Hanes?

  I understand that. Yeah. It's a, and no, you're just, yeah, it's just a funny caption.

• 38:00Speaker 01

  It literally does nothing, does nothing to it. Does nothing to it.

• 38:03Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. It's a, I, I get that. So different cultures for sure have different way of going about business. I get it. Um, yeah. I mean, I, I think that, yeah, I want to see what you can do in MMA for sure. That'll be fun.

• 38:16Speaker 01

  For sure. I'm looking forward to it.

• 38:18Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Um, so tell me like, I, I, we missed part of it. What, after you went to, to Thailand, you came back. So then how long has this journey been from then until like, did you have the belt before this, this time? Or is this the first time you've had it?

• 38:34Speaker 01

  No, this is, this is so, so one championship is like the mainstream of Muay Thai now in kickboxing, right? Before one championship, fighting was only for the love of fighting. There was no money in it.

• 38:51Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 38:51Speaker 01

  Zero.

• 38:52Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 38:52Speaker 01

  Like nothing at all. So when like my passion was Muay Thai, but when we were fighting, it was just to get a name in Muay Thai. It wasn't, you're, you're not looking at the future thinking, I'm going to be a millionaire. I'm going to be financially secure. And that wasn't the thought back then. Back then it was just, I want to get better and I want to do better and things like that. And then when championship came about and then they started giving out 50K bonuses and it's like, like, okay, now they're changing people's lives.

• 39:23Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 39:23Speaker 01

  So when that came about, that became the new all in on that. That's, that's where I have to go.

• 39:30Cameron Hanes?

  And when was this?

• 39:31Speaker 01

  That was probably when I was.

• 39:35Speaker 01

  Twenty years old.

• 39:36Cameron Hanes?

  Okay. Like it could be a job then you thought.

• 39:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I was, I was, I was a electrician. And I quit when I was twenty because I hated being an electrician and then one championship was about and I was like, um, this is where I'm going to go and I put all my eggs in that basket.

• 39:54Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 39:54Speaker 01

  Quit my apprenticeship and went full time on Muay Thai. So back then, like, we, we, there wasn't any, there wasn't any financial gain. So after, after I came back from Thailand, I started fighting just like Scottish scene was beating everybody up. Then from there I went into kind of the UK domestic scene was beating everybody up. Then I started capturing European titles and then from there I won.

• 40:23Cameron Hanes?

  What's the organisation that puts us on?

• 40:26Speaker 01

  Oh, in Muay Thai, there's so many different ones. The ones that I got are actually really high, like probably one of the best. So it was called ISK. Um, and WMO, World Muay Thai Organisation. So and WBC is another one. I, I got the European for that. But I got the world for the ISK in two time WMO.

• 40:46Cameron Hanes?

  So you won those championships?

• 40:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was a three time world champion before I, before I signed to one championship.

• 40:51Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 40:52Speaker 01

  But even then, like the wages, like you're, you're just doing it to be a world champion and you're not doing it to.

• 40:57Cameron Hanes?

  When did you start making any money?

• 40:59Speaker 01

  Uh, only when I went to one.

• 41:01Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 41:01Speaker 01

  So, um, yeah, before that, like you're, you're just fighting for the love, the love of the sport.

• 41:08Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 41:09Speaker 01

  So, yeah, so got into the world, got into the, won the world titles and then like, that was that. I got, I got a phone call to go to one championship and then that's it from there just.

• 41:23Cameron Hanes?

  It's a pretty, I mean, those, uh, those fighters, I mean, what's the, they always have the stuff tied here. You don't tie the stuff there.

• 41:31Speaker 01

  I don't, absolutely.

• 41:32Cameron Hanes?

  What's that for?

• 41:33Speaker 01

  Absolutely hate it. I think it's really uncomfortable.

• 41:35Cameron Hanes?

  Really? It looks kind of cool though.

• 41:37Speaker 01

  It's very cool and the, the reason behind it's even cooler.

• 41:40Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 41:41Speaker 01

  So back. I'm not gonna go into and try and do a history lesson here because I'll end up getting it wrong. I'll end up getting hate for it. But back in the day when the Thais went to war, they would cut a piece of ribbon off of their mother's wedding gown or their wife's and they would give that to their sons who are the soldiers and wrap it around their arms to take into battle for good luck. And that tradition carries over into Muay Thai.

• 42:13Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 42:13Speaker 01

  So this is like an emblem of good luck.

• 42:16Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, I see. That's kind of cool.

• 42:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:19Cameron Hanes?

  But you don't do that.

• 42:19Speaker 01

  I don't do it.

• 42:20Cameron Hanes?

  Because you don't like it on there?

• 42:21Speaker 01

  It's so annoying.

• 42:22Cameron Hanes?

  You don't like good luck?

• 42:23Speaker 01

  I will. I do. I do like good luck, but let's be honest, we create our own luck.

• 42:29Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that's true. Yeah, I just, I just think it's, I mean, just watching the fights is just, I don't know, it's that striking, is there something so badass about it?

• 42:43Speaker 01

  Muay Thai striking is the best in the world.

• 42:45Cameron Hanes?

  It feels, seems like it to watch.

• 42:47Speaker 01

  There's no, there's no argument about it. And I'm not saying this as a Muay Thai purist because I am now going down the MMA route. If you come up against a Muay Thai guy on striking, you lose. That's why like in MMA, you see so many leg breaks and so many horrible injuries because the technique isn't great. Whereas Muay Thai technique and striking is perfected. To every punch, every elbow strike, kneeing, kicking, every single limb, we've perfected how to throw it the best for maximum.

• 43:24Cameron Hanes?

  Damage.

• 43:25Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 43:25Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, it looks like it.

• 43:27Speaker 01

  And the quickest way to get there with the less damage on hurting you, everything you name it, that's what Muay Thai is.

• 43:33Cameron Hanes?

  Has to be best for a bar fight.

• 43:35Speaker 01

  Definitely.

• 43:37Cameron Hanes?

  You think?

• 43:37Speaker 01

  A shot elbow.

• 43:39Cameron Hanes?

  I know, an elbow. Nobody's expecting an elbow.

• 43:41Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 43:42Cameron Hanes?

  You take an elbow to your nose?

• 43:44Speaker 01

  Oh, no bueno.

• 43:45Cameron Hanes?

  In a bar?

• 43:45Speaker 01

  No bueno.

• 43:48Cameron Hanes?

  I want to go home.

• 43:49Speaker 01

  I seen a video the other day and it was like a guy gets into a bar fight and he gets into a really heavy stance.

• 43:55Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 43:55Speaker 01

  And the other guy just chops inside of his leg and just snaps it.

• 44:00Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 44:01Speaker 01

  So you come against a guy who knows how to leg kick and calf kick and shit.

• 44:05Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, somebody walks in a bar and they got these things tied on their arms.

• 44:08Speaker 01

  And they walk in with the, you know, you seen the one in the head, the Mongkong.

• 44:11Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 44:12Speaker 01

  Game over. What you should really look for is a guy who liked the cauliflower of yours.

• 44:16Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that's here over here. That's what we always say.

• 44:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, you see that.

• 44:20Cameron Hanes?

  The wrestlers.

• 44:20Speaker 01

  Have a good night.

• 44:21Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that's that for here. That's wrestlers. So you see a wrestler, you're like, no, that's not. But God, watching you guys strike, I don't know. That looks devastating.

• 44:31Speaker 01

  And that's, for me, it's sad that it's not more mainstream in the US. Because anybody who talks about it, has watched one championship, has watched the fights, they say it's the by far most entertaining stuff ever.

• 44:45Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 44:46Speaker 01

  It's because it's just madness. It's crazy, but it's a beautiful art form.

• 44:49Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, it's not on the ground. It's standing, striking.

• 44:51Speaker 01

  And that's what everybody wants to see. Everybody wants to see a fight because obviously if you don't know, you don't know wrestling.

• 44:58Cameron Hanes?

  You don't know what's going on.

• 44:59Speaker 01

  You don't appreciate it and you don't know what's going on.

• 45:01Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, you have to have like Joe or DC or those guys, you know, calling and saying what they're trying to do.

• 45:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, the commentary helps.

• 45:07Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 45:08Speaker 01

  If there was no commentary, people would just be like, what the, what's going on here?

• 45:12Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah, no, I'm, I love watching, you know, you fight for sure, but I'm super pumped to see the MMA stuff. I don't see how the UFC couldn't just jump all over you. Like, so you have a manager that's like trying to book fights for you or sell fights or what?

• 45:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, I've got a manager right now who's just, obviously I've just became the champion and won championship. So now he's dealing with negotiating with new contracts and

• 45:39Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 45:40Speaker 01

  fights and then also endorsements.

• 45:43Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 45:43Speaker 01

  As well.

• 45:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, work in progress.

• 45:47Cameron Hanes?

  That's, that's, I mean, does the paydays go up when you get to be champion like quite a bit?

• 45:56Speaker 01

  A fair, a fair amount.

• 45:57Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 45:57Speaker 01

  Um, obviously I've not been paid as a champion yet.

• 46:00Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm. So your next fight, you should get a good contract.

• 46:03Speaker 01

  I should, I should definitely be on way more than what I've made so far.

• 46:07Cameron Hanes?

  Do they do show and win or what do they do?

• 46:09Speaker 01

  So the contract I was on before unfortunately wasn't, but it's because I didn't, we didn't negotiate it at the time and stuff. We were younger, we didn't have a manager. So now we've done everything for the right way.

• 46:19Cameron Hanes?

  You got some leverage.

• 46:20Speaker 01

  So now, yeah, and as a champion, so now I would, yeah, definitely. I think with Muay Thai, it's not so much. I think in MMA, and one I definitely know they do that, like show and then if you win, you get the, the same.

• 46:35Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah. It's a, it's just interesting. Yeah. I mostly, it's about if people care about you, you can make money.

• 46:42Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 46:43Cameron Hanes?

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• 47:24Cameron Hanes?

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• 48:09Cameron Hanes?

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• 48:52Cameron Hanes?

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• 49:33Speaker 01

  Well.

• 49:34Cameron Hanes?

  If you had to choose?

• 49:34Speaker 01

  If I had to choose, it would be Taowen Chai, who is, who is the champ before he broke his leg. But he's broke his leg right now, and he's not gonna.

• 49:44Cameron Hanes?

  That's the belt you got now?

• 49:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:46Cameron Hanes?

  He had that?

• 49:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, so he's not, he's, but he's broke his leg, and I don't know when he's gonna recover. So I'm not really looking at that right now. I'm not hung up on it. I'm just, I just want to fight.

• 49:58Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 49:58Speaker 01

  I've never really cared about who I fight or anything. For me, it's never been, oh, that's my dream opponent and things. Every fight ends up being a dream opponent. Like the last few opponents I've fought, I've watched them since I was a young guy.

• 50:08Cameron Hanes?

  They've been in the game for a long time.

• 50:09Speaker 01

  Oh, exactly. And now I beat them, I've knocked them out and it's like on to the next. For me, it's more, I always wanted to get the belt and I didn't care about the journey to it. I just wanted the belt. Now I've got the belt and I was like, the same thing. I just want to fight and defend it. I don't really care who it is.

• 50:25Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 50:25Speaker 01

  So.

• 50:26Cameron Hanes?

  And you're fighting at fifty five now?

• 50:29Speaker 01

  One fifty five.

• 50:30Cameron Hanes?

  Is that, do you think, is that what you'd take into like MMA, fifty five?

• 50:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:35Cameron Hanes?

  That's what you want to fight at?

• 50:36Speaker 01

  Definitely. I couldn't, I couldn't make one forty five.

• 50:39Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 50:39Speaker 01

  No way.

• 50:40Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, you're pretty big for that.

• 50:41Speaker 01

  I couldn't, I couldn't do that.

• 50:42Cameron Hanes?

  And have you trained with like UFC guys?

• 50:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:46Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 50:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, so at Bangtow right now, um, UFC right now in Bangtow. Well, not, not UFC, but Craig Jones is there, you know, the Jitjitsu. He's at Bangtow right now. And before that, I was training with Chandlers, um, Marissio Ruffe.

• 51:07Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 51:07Speaker 01

  Alexander Volkanovski, Israel Adesanya, who we're all at, all at, all at the gym I train at.

• 51:12Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 51:13Speaker 01

  Oh, and just recently I was training with, um, Colby Thickesey. He's fighting on the Perth card. What day is it today?

• 51:22Speaker 01

  Tuesday, this Saturday. He's fighting in UFC Perth. I spent a lot of time with him the last four weeks.

• 51:26Cameron Hanes?

  Who, who is that?

• 51:28Speaker 01

  Colby Thickesey. He's a, he's like Volkanovski's prodigy.

• 51:30Cameron Hanes?

  Okay, yeah.

• 51:31Speaker 01

  He's like, he's a, he's a younger guy in the gym, but he's, he's in the UFC, uh, this, this weekend.

• 51:36Cameron Hanes?

  Can you, can you hang with those guys?

• 51:39Speaker 01

  Grappling, he's, his grappling's insane. I must admit.

• 51:43Cameron Hanes?

  Pretty good.

• 51:44Speaker 01

  A striker and obviously it's, that's, that's my shit.

• 51:46Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. So you, your striking, is it better than most of UFC guys, do you think?

• 51:52Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 51:53Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. So if you can level.

• 51:55Speaker 01

  That's like no arrogance. That's just like, yes, it is.

• 51:59Cameron Hanes?

  Yes, it is. We're not arguing about it. Just it is. Yeah. So, but if you could get to where you could defend the takedowns and then we're good.

• 52:08Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 52:09Cameron Hanes?

  And get up.

• 52:09Speaker 01

  And that's the plan.

• 52:10Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 52:10Speaker 01

  That's the plan. Defend the takedowns.

• 52:13Cameron Hanes?

  That's so sick. Like if you had a dream fight in the UFC, what would it be?

• 52:18Speaker 01

  In the UFC?

• 52:21Speaker 01

  A dream fight.

• 52:22Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 52:26Speaker 01

  I don't, I don't know, I don't.

• 52:27Cameron Hanes?

  No, no, no, no, no. You've been fighting your whole life. I know you've been watching UFC. I know you've got somebody.

• 52:34Speaker 01

  But do you know something? See, see, I've been watching these guys as fans.

• 52:40Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 52:40Speaker 01

  So my mindset has never been to fight them.

• 52:43Cameron Hanes?

  That's true.

• 52:43Speaker 01

  It's just always been to like, I want to be like him. I want to do what he's done.

• 52:47Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 52:48Speaker 01

  Cause in order to be like, I want to fight him one day, it would be more like, he's a dick.

• 52:52Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 52:52Speaker 01

  I don't like that guy.

• 52:53Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 52:54Speaker 01

  So it would be more of that mindset.

• 52:55Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 52:55Speaker 01

  Whereas the people I've looked up to, it's like, I want to be like him.

• 52:58Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 53:00Speaker 01

  Never, I want to fight him, which is a boring answer, but it's the truth. It's a boring answer, but that is the truth.

• 53:06Cameron Hanes?

  See, fifty five, who's the champion?

• 53:09Speaker 01

  Iliya Toporia, unfortunately.

• 53:12Cameron Hanes?

  How would you match up with him?

• 53:14Speaker 01

  Oh, I don't, I don't, right now, not, not good probably. His, his wrestling's amazing.

• 53:20Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 53:20Speaker 01

  Could I beat him striking, standing up? I think I could beat everybody in the world, striking and standing up.

• 53:26Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, he punches hard, but you punch hard.

• 53:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, he does punch very hard.

• 53:29Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 53:29Speaker 01

  Um, but right now, obviously.

• 53:33Cameron Hanes?

  You're bigger though. I mean, I think.

• 53:35Speaker 01

  I think I'm probably.

• 53:35Cameron Hanes?

  You're definitely taller.

• 53:36Speaker 01

  You know, he looks really stocky though.

• 53:38Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 53:38Speaker 01

  He looks really stocky.

• 53:39Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, he's explosive, but, but I think you.

• 53:42Speaker 01

  His rest, his ground game's insane as well though. He knocks everybody out.

• 53:46Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 53:46Speaker 01

  But his grappling is, is, is next level as well.

• 53:50Cameron Hanes?

  I think I watched him, was that against, um, God, well, I know he beat the hell out of Bryce Mitchell once, but then I think also like Max, didn't he? Didn't he beat up Max?

• 54:01Speaker 01

  That was not the, that was his, that was last year.

• 54:05Cameron Hanes?

  God, and Max is good.

• 54:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, very.

• 54:07Cameron Hanes?

  Anybody.

• 54:08Speaker 01

  Max has never been knocked out.

• 54:09Cameron Hanes?

  Anybody who can do that makes me a little nervous.

• 54:12Speaker 01

  But do you know who, what Iliya Toporia reminds me of?

• 54:14Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 54:15Speaker 01

  Just like a better version of Conor McGregor.

• 54:17Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 54:18Speaker 01

  Just, he keeps predicting things and saying that he's going to do things and he just does them.

• 54:23Cameron Hanes?

  He does it.

• 54:23Speaker 01

  And he makes it look easy, which is terrifying.

• 54:25Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah, that's true. And let's see, who else is in fifty five?

• 54:30Speaker 01

  Fifty five, obviously Justin Gagey, obviously Michael Chandler, Mauricio Ruffi.

• 54:35Cameron Hanes?

  What about Gagey?

• 54:37Speaker 01

  Gagey, me.

• 54:38Cameron Hanes?

  Cause he likes to stand and bang.

• 54:39Speaker 01

  For, for me, I'd, I'd, I, I don't have any doubt. If it was just a striking match, I don't have any doubt with any of these guys. I, I, I win.

• 54:47Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 54:49Speaker 01

  But it's MMA and it's not just striking and right now I'm a hundred percent not there.

• 54:54Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 54:55Speaker 01

  Absolutely. I've only just started wrestling and stuff.

• 54:57Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 54:57Speaker 01

  In time, in time, give it time, I'll get there, but.

• 55:00Cameron Hanes?

  Who would be a first opening fight for 155 then?

• 55:04Speaker 01

  That would be, it would be obviously not top 10.

• 55:07Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 55:08Speaker 01

  Wouldn't it?

• 55:08Cameron Hanes?

  But we could find somebody in there.

• 55:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm sure I'll, I'm, I'm sure I'll hang, I'm sure I'll.

• 55:13Cameron Hanes?

  Well, I can't wait to see it. That's why I'm, that's why I'm talking about it. One thing that I do want to talk about, I was watching, as I said, I was watching your videos. You're young, you're, what are you, 27?

• 55:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:25Cameron Hanes?

  But you're at.

• 55:26Speaker 01

  I'm not that young.

• 55:26Cameron Hanes?

  You're at, but your attitude is like so, I don't know if it's from, you grew up very young, you know, I mean, you, you had to grow up. You said, you know, your dad was gone, but then just traveling to other countries as a young man. I feel like your perspective is, is unique and like the videos I was talking about. You were, or I was watching, you were talking about how you just want to inspire people.

• 55:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:52Cameron Hanes?

  And that's, most people your age, they want the money, the fame. Inspiring people wouldn't even come up.

• 56:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:01Cameron Hanes?

  So I thought that was, I was like, man, I loved what you were saying about that. Tell me, where, where does that come from?

• 56:08Speaker 01

  Well, it comes from people like you and David Goggins. That, that, that is the truth. And I've watched yours for a long time now. I've been massively inspired by yours. And you know, the message that you's put out there goes to someone like me. I'm brave enough to follow that hard message and do the hard things and I see the light in the things that you's talking about. And then it's up to me to share that on to others. And that, it's that simple. That's it.

• 56:40Cameron Hanes?

  Well, you do a great job. I mean, that that means a lot. It's like, I'm so thankful that you're here, that we got to do this pod, do spend the day. Cause uh, yeah, you you're a special young man, but it it feels good to hear that. That's it's it's.

• 56:55Speaker 01

  And to just so you know, you you have, as you we spoke about earlier on, you have a massive following. Um, on my side of the world over in the UK, huge, huge following.

• 57:04Cameron Hanes?

  All my friends in Scotland. What's up, guys? I did. I did not know you were out there, but I appreciate you.

• 57:10Speaker 01

  Oh, they're out there for sure.

• 57:12Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that's, that's great. I just like, I was just so like, it's so refreshing to hear you talk like that and talk about like your legacy or or how you wanted to, you know, just make an impact on society. It's just rare.

• 57:26Speaker 01

  Everybody's chasing the same things. They're chasing the girls and the money and the fame or or whatever. But for me, when you have this, when you have this inner drive, when you have this like this purpose in life, that is life. That is life. That's living life to the fullest. When you have this purpose and you go all in on it. And you know, the journey to get there is just, it's amazing. The journey to get there for me. Getting the belt doesn't make me who I am. It was the journey getting to the belt. That is the reason I'm sitting here is the reason that I've done all the things that I've done.

• 58:02Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 58:02Speaker 01

  And I I think that that's important to to share to other people how how beautiful, if if if you put so much time and effort and go all in on something. That to me is living a fulfilled life. And so because I'm I'm I'm happy, man, I'm I'm I I love the life I'm living. And because of that, I just feel like the only right thing to do is to share that knowledge with other people. A lot of these external things won't make people happy. The shit that we've done today, that's happiness.

• 58:38Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 58:38Speaker 01

  That's that's what makes me happy. That's, do you know what I mean? And and and people get too caught up on materialistic things. But it's all external bullshit. The thing that matters is your purpose.

• 58:50Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 58:50Speaker 01

  Go on, go all in on something, find find your, find what you're passionate about and spend a lot of time.

• 58:58Speaker 01

  If not a lot, all your time doing it.

• 58:59Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 59:00Speaker 01

  And that's it. That's all that matters. And then for me, it's just share that to other people. Let other people know the feeling that I get, yous can all get this as well.

• 59:07Cameron Hanes?

  Right. Yeah, that's, I mean, it's, it's so powerful, but it's so, it's true, you know? And so I'm just glad that a young man like yourself is out there sharing that and like telling people it's okay to have that attitude. Because we get, it gets reinforced out there that, oh, you're supposed to be like, how much can you accumulate for yourself? How, you know, the nicer, the bigger house, a nicer car, the more jewelry and all this. But then, and then you come in and you say stuff like, no, it's about inspiring people. And it's just, we need that. So I'm like, super grateful for you.

• 59:43Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that made me think of one other thing. How are you so shredded? Have you always been shredded? What's your training like? Cause anybody who's seen you fight would be like, I don't really know that much about that guy, but he's shredded.

• 59:58Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, does genetics come into it? Possibly.

• 1:00:03Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:03Speaker 01

  A bit. I've always had like, I'll show you pictures of me when I was really young and I was, I've always had like a little mini six pack. I was like skinny, skin and bones, but I had a little six pack.

• 1:00:12Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:13Speaker 01

  Now it's just the training.

• 1:00:14Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:14Speaker 01

  That's it. Those.

• 1:00:15Cameron Hanes?

  That was training or without training?

• 1:00:17Speaker 01

  Eh, back then, I was, I was always athletic and I was always out doing shit, but like not at a high level.

• 1:00:24Cameron Hanes?

  Have you ever been fat?

• 1:00:26Speaker 01

  Um.

• 1:00:29Speaker 01

  I, I don't think I've ever been fat. I've been, I've been to the point where I can't see my abs.

• 1:00:36Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, so like James?

• 1:00:42Speaker 01

  James has got abs.

• 1:00:44Cameron Hanes?

  What?

• 1:00:44Speaker 01

  James has got abs.

• 1:00:45Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, technically everyone does.

• 1:00:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's true.

• 1:00:48Cameron Hanes?

  Under there somewhere. He also supposedly has a dick, but nobody's ever seen it.

• 1:00:55Cameron Hanes?

  Well, his mom.

• 1:00:58Cameron Hanes?

  And your uncle, but and then that guy down the street, but other than, well, and then also that other guy. But yeah, anyway.

• 1:01:10Speaker 01

  But that's, that's, that's, yeah, genetics and training.

• 1:01:14Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. And so like, I was asking you, you don't track food necessarily, do you? Or calories?

• 1:01:20Speaker 01

  Now, now I don't at all.

• 1:01:22Cameron Hanes?

  No.

• 1:01:22Speaker 01

  No. So when I was making the lower weight and I was killing myself, that was torture. That was.

• 1:01:30Cameron Hanes?

  Did you have to track then? Or you just starved yourself?

• 1:01:32Speaker 01

  Um, I had, well, about both. I, I had to, it was, when I done my fight camps, the full fight camp would be on a calorie deficit. So I was training twice a day.

• 1:01:44Cameron Hanes?

  Do you know how many?

• 1:01:45Speaker 01

  Eighteen hundred calories.

• 1:01:46Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, and burning, do you know how many?

• 1:01:48Speaker 01

  Three thousand.

• 1:01:50Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that's tough.

• 1:01:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's bad. And you know what happens then is that every day you're fatigued, every day you're tired, every day. And I fell out with Muay Thai at that weight for a couple of years. Because I linked fighting, the fun thing that I love doing, I linked it with cutting weight. And cutting weight, it wasn't, it wasn't like a thing where, you know, we're doing this cause on the other side of it is like this beautiful, this was just fucking miserable. There was nothing, there was nothing great. There was nothing great that came out of it, apart from making the weight and getting to fight. That's right. But it, it, like, it was, it was bad. And it made me fall out with Muay Thai. Like I hated, cause I linked, I linked fighting with, now I need to do a weight cut.

• 1:02:30Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:02:31Speaker 01

  And then obviously I decided to move up a weight. And now I'm just.

• 1:02:35Cameron Hanes?

  Now you're good.

• 1:02:35Speaker 01

  Now I'm good.

• 1:02:37Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that's, that weight cutting, man, seems brutal. But yeah, cause in training at a deficit, training is hard anyway.

• 1:02:44Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:02:45Cameron Hanes?

  When you don't have enough fuel.

• 1:02:47Speaker 01

  Awful. And especially in Muay Thai is like, you have to, like, it's, it's, it's not something that you can just like, put one foot in front of the other and just slog. You have to be really sharp. You're sparring. You're, you're doing all these really intricate things. Like if you're not mentally sharp.

• 1:03:06Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:06Speaker 01

  You're not there. You're, you know what I mean? So.

• 1:03:09Cameron Hanes?

  And the guy you're sparring, you're can't say, hey, I'm in a calorie deficit. So just like kind of chill out.

• 1:03:13Speaker 01

  No, well, they get, they're getting brought in to fight you the way that this guy's going to fight you.

• 1:03:18Cameron Hanes?

  Ready, yeah.

• 1:03:18Speaker 01

  Exactly. So it's like. Everything just becomes difficult on a calorie deficit.

• 1:03:23Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 1:03:24Speaker 01

  Your fatigue easy, it's harder to recover. And then, yeah, it's just, it's just shit.

• 1:03:30Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:30Speaker 01

  I'm happy I don't need to do it anymore now though, so.

• 1:03:32Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that's good. Well, I don't know. Like I said, you're shredded. So whatever you're doing works. Um, yeah. And so tell me about your, uh, your running, cause you run quite a bit for a fighter. I mean.

• 1:03:47Speaker 01

  I'm glad you put in for a fighter there because I definitely don't run.

• 1:03:51Cameron Hanes?

  Compared to Courtney, you don't run.

• 1:03:52Speaker 01

  Compared to you, I don't run. But for a fighter, I would say that I run for a fighter. Yeah.

• 1:03:58Cameron Hanes?

  Where did the run, love of running come in?

• 1:04:01Speaker 01

  Um, the love of running. So I've, I've always run in fight camps, but it was just like five K before training. You know, just like hard, fast, sharp cardio before you train, just things like that. I've always done that in my fight camps. The love of running came in when I met my friend, Davy Gou, who's an ultra marathon runner back home. Um, he's supported by Hawker.

• 1:04:22Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 1:04:23Speaker 01

  Uh, in, in Scotland, he's not been competing lately. Uh, but I, I just kinda met him by chance. I, I, me and my friend were doing a marathon and my friend wanted to make it for charity and my friend knew Davy. And so he just came along with us.

• 1:04:42Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 1:04:42Speaker 01

  And on that marathon, we chatted and we spoke a lot. And from there, I ended up out running with him every day.

• 1:04:50Cameron Hanes?

  Oh.

• 1:04:51Speaker 01

  And through running with him, I ended up running longer distances, started learning about running shoes to wear, this, that, all the trails, all different routes in Scotland. And from there, I fell, absolutely fell in love with trail running and

• 1:05:05Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 1:05:05Speaker 01

  That, that day kind of distances.

• 1:05:07Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's, I mean, you can do that for a long time after your fighting days.

• 1:05:12Speaker 01

  And that's what they'll tell me.

• 1:05:13Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, look how old I am.

• 1:05:15Speaker 01

  So right now, right now, I'm like in Thailand and I'm chasing this pursuit, you know, for the

• 1:05:20Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:20Speaker 01

  And, and the, I am missing running back home.

• 1:05:23Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:24Speaker 01

  Because it's race season now. So it's like all the little, the Scottish races, the ultras are coming up and it's like, I'm not there.

• 1:05:31Cameron Hanes?

  It's fun.

• 1:05:31Speaker 01

  It's, it is. It's an amazing time, the, the race season.

• 1:05:34Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, it's a good test.

• 1:05:35Speaker 01

  And that's the only thing I'm missing, but they're all saying like, these trails will all still be there.

• 1:05:40Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:40Speaker 01

  When you retire and when you come back.

• 1:05:42Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, they will. Are you, are you pretty good?

• 1:05:46Speaker 01

  They, I mean, next to you, probably not, but the group that are running, yeah.

• 1:05:52Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, you can run pretty good.

• 1:05:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm probably the best.

• 1:05:55Cameron Hanes?

  Really?

• 1:05:56Speaker 01

  Part one guy.

• 1:05:57Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 1:05:58Speaker 01

  Craig Look, his name is. And the funny thing about him is he's been running for one, two years now. He just, all of a sudden, just started running and then he came into our kind of group and, and, and last year, he won, he came second in Scotland's most competitive ultra.

• 1:06:14Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 1:06:14Speaker 01

  It was a fifty two miler.

• 1:06:16Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:06:17Speaker 01

  And he came second.

• 1:06:18Cameron Hanes?

  Wow.

• 1:06:18Speaker 01

  And it's a stacked field, like it's.

• 1:06:20Cameron Hanes?

  Man, so he is good.

• 1:06:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's good.

• 1:06:22Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:23Speaker 01

  So, yeah, apart, apart from him, yeah, I'd say I'm, I'm okay.

• 1:06:27Cameron Hanes?

  Well, I, I'm excited to see how that goes after you get done fighting, but, so you're fighting. Um, right now you're fighting and I was, we talked about this a little bit, the most painful strike.

• 1:06:40Speaker 01

  Yeah. Honestly, the calf kick's pretty bad now. The calf kick's pretty bad.

• 1:06:45Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:46Speaker 01

  But, like, all these shots, as long as your lights don't go out, you have a choice to fight on. How strong will you? How much pain can you endure? And that's with any shot that you take. The only one shot that you don't have that choice is the liver shot.

• 1:07:04Cameron Hanes?

  That shuts you down.

• 1:07:05Speaker 01

  It will shut your body down and it doesn't matter if your lights don't go out, you're still conscious. But if you can't breathe, you can't do anything.

• 1:07:13Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:07:15Speaker 01

  And, and that's it. So the liver shot's definitely the worst. If you get hit to the head and your lights go out, you wake up and you don't, you don't, you don't know what, you don't know what happened.

• 1:07:25Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, there's no choice to be made.

• 1:07:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. There's no choice to be made, but also, like, it doesn't hurt.

• 1:07:30Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:31Speaker 01

  You just wake up and you're like, shit, what happened? This hurts.

• 1:07:35Cameron Hanes?

  Oh.

• 1:07:35Speaker 01

  So much and it shuts you down.

• 1:07:38Cameron Hanes?

  And it, do they, does it always delay?

• 1:07:42Speaker 01

  It can, so.

• 1:07:43Cameron Hanes?

  Cause you, you mentioned one where the glancing, you said the glancing is worse?

• 1:07:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I don't have a explanation for it. My coach will probably say the same. I just find that the. I don't know if it just hits more of the liver because it hits and then slides off.

• 1:07:59Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm. So it hits like a longer, like more surface area of the liver?

• 1:08:03Speaker 01

  Maybe. Again, I don't know. I just think when, when the shot, you hit it and it slides off. They ones hurt rather than ones that are just dug it in. I don't know why.

• 1:08:13Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:14Speaker 01

  Um, but yeah, a liver shot, not, you don't want to be taking them.

• 1:08:19Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I think we watched a clip where you were fighting somebody, I think you went for a couple to the head, like just whatever, just get his hands up.

• 1:08:27Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:08:28Cameron Hanes?

  And then right under the elbow.

• 1:08:29Speaker 01

  Sneak under, sneak under the elbow.

• 1:08:31Cameron Hanes?

  Got him, shut him down.

• 1:08:33Speaker 01

  Horrible shot. And he looked, he looked in a lot of pain as well, so he did.

• 1:08:36Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:37Speaker 01

  Which is, oh, but you were saying about the delay.

• 1:08:40Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:40Speaker 01

  So I think it's to do with how you're breathing at the time.

• 1:08:45Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 1:08:45Speaker 01

  So I think if you're breathing out, when the shot comes, the delays when you take your breath in. You can't breathe in.

• 1:08:55Cameron Hanes?

  Oh.

• 1:08:55Speaker 01

  So it'll be like.

• 1:08:57Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:59Speaker 01

  That, that's pretty much what happens.

• 1:09:01Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, so it's just like where your breath is?

• 1:09:02Speaker 01

  I think so. Sometimes, normally with the delay, that's what it is.

• 1:09:06Cameron Hanes?

  I see.

• 1:09:06Speaker 01

  They'll take the shot and it's when they try suck air in, they can't. And that's, that's where that is.

• 1:09:12Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that's brutal. What about, you always hear about the Thai clinch, right? So that's holding behind their head. And then how did that start? And because that's just knees to the, to your body, right?

• 1:09:25Speaker 01

  Well, the clinching is part of Muay Thai.

• 1:09:28Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 1:09:29Speaker 01

  I mean, now in One Championship, I wouldn't say it's 50% of the sport because, you know, there's a lot, definitely a a lot less clinching happening now in One Championship. But before, and before One Championship and the stadiums in Thailand, it would be like full, a full five rounds and it's just a clinch fight.

• 1:09:48Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 1:09:48Speaker 01

  And it's like, clinching itself is an art form. It is very, very difficult.

• 1:09:54Cameron Hanes?

  Really?

• 1:09:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, very difficult. It's like wrestling as well, like that in itself is a discipline. And so it's just like.

• 1:10:04Speaker 01

  Having your hands in the more dominant position, positions where you can elbow, positions where you're.

• 1:10:09Cameron Hanes?

  Is that inside the other, other arms?

• 1:10:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:11Cameron Hanes?

  So you want them in.

• 1:10:12Speaker 01

  Always want your hands on inside.

• 1:10:14Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 1:10:14Speaker 01

  So then you can control the biceps.

• 1:10:15Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:10:16Speaker 01

  If you can control the biceps, it's easy to elbow, it's also easy to off balance your opponent, you're allowed to trip.

• 1:10:21Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:21Speaker 01

  Also, you can send your hips back to, to strike the knees on. Yeah, it's, clinching itself is a beautiful art as well.

• 1:10:28Cameron Hanes?

  Cause it, I know when I'm watching it, when you see somebody get their hands, it just, I'm like, I would not want to be.

• 1:10:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, so a lot, a lot of MMA guys, because they've done so much wrestling stuff and like, this, in wrestling, you're, the hands are always like, like this, like they're pummeling.

• 1:10:44Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:45Speaker 01

  So when someone goes to the top of the head, a lot of MMA guys don't like, that, that's not something they practise.

• 1:10:51Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:10:52Speaker 01

  So when you go straight up here and the head gets pulled, you, you can't really fight that.

• 1:10:57Cameron Hanes?

  No.

• 1:10:57Speaker 01

  It's very difficult to fight that. The only way to fight that would be by Muay Thai clinching.

• 1:11:01Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:01Speaker 01

  Rather than wrestling.

• 1:11:03Cameron Hanes?

  I see.

• 1:11:03Speaker 01

  Does that make sense?

• 1:11:04Cameron Hanes?

  But they usually go to the wrestling or they go to.

• 1:11:07Speaker 01

  Well, you see Anderson Silva was so good at doing it.

• 1:11:09Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:09Speaker 01

  Whenever he was like, had somebody up against the cage, he would just grab the back of the head.

• 1:11:12Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:13Speaker 01

  And he would, cause like, if, if you grab the neck, the neck is strong.

• 1:11:18Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:11:18Speaker 01

  But if you grab this little bone.

• 1:11:20Cameron Hanes?

  Little higher up, the leverage.

• 1:11:22Speaker 01

  It just snaps down.

• 1:11:23Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:23Speaker 01

  You don't have strength there.

• 1:11:24Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:11:25Speaker 01

  And that's where you always aim for, that bit. And then the head snaps down and then you can start driving the knees straight up.

• 1:11:31Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. And how does that feel to land a perfect knee, like?

• 1:11:34Speaker 01

  Beautiful. So, so good. But it's just any strike, see any strike that lands flush and it like, and it's, it's very sickening.

• 1:11:43Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:11:43Speaker 01

  Like to say, but it's a, it is an amazing feeling, like cracking someone over the skull.

• 1:11:50Cameron Hanes?

  Like, do you ever hear anything, like, like a cheek break?

• 1:11:57Speaker 01

  My, I broke my opponent's last jaw in two places.

• 1:12:00Cameron Hanes?

  Did, did you hear it?

• 1:12:01Speaker 01

  I didn't hear it. Um.

• 1:12:03Cameron Hanes?

  But you, you knew it's solid.

• 1:12:07Speaker 01

  So during the fight, I didn't know. During the fight, I didn't know he broke his, it was immediately after it. He got rushed to hospital and then he was in the hospital for one week after the fight. He's actually still got, what are we now, two, two months after the fight? He's still got a full retainer in to keep his jaw wired shut. Yeah, he'll be out the rest of the year.

• 1:12:26Cameron Hanes?

  A punch?

• 1:12:27Speaker 01

  So I don't actually know what shot it was that broke his jaw. They're saying it was in the second round. And so for me, hats off to him because all the shots that I threw after that, round three, four and five, and he stayed in the fight.

• 1:12:41Cameron Hanes?

  That's impressive.

• 1:12:42Speaker 01

  But what I did notice was after round two, every round, his head was getting more swollen. Yeah. And then, and then he spat out blood and it was like a lot of blood. Like, you know, like when you break your nose, it's just like profusely bleeding. It was like that.

• 1:12:59Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. So you knew something was up. Yeah. Yeah. I remember when Colby got his fight against, or his jaw broke against Kamara, I think. And I remember that his jaw just wasn't working, it was bloody in there, but reminds me of that.

• 1:13:13Speaker 01

  That's the, that's the second guy's jaw broke.

• 1:13:16Cameron Hanes?

  Really? God. Yeah. What a, what a tough sport.

• 1:13:20Speaker 01

  Very. It is, it is, it's, and you know what? Like, I've been on the receiving end. I've been hurt. I've been, do you know what I mean? So it's like, at the end of the day, you're both going in to do the same thing and it's just first man to do it. And it's just, it is what it is.

• 1:13:34Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. You're, I mean, you got a chin. I don't know. You're, you're, you've, I've seen you take some shots and it's like, can't even tell.

• 1:13:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm, I'm pretty durable.

• 1:13:44Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, very durable. Um, yeah, I, I just, I don't know. I'm a fan. Love watching it.

• 1:13:51Speaker 01

  My face wouldn't tell that I'm durable, but it doesn't look like it gets hurt.

• 1:13:54Cameron Hanes?

  It doesn't. Yeah. Uh, did you have a questions, James?

• 1:13:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, I got a couple.

• 1:13:59Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 1:14:01Speaker 02

  And I know Nico listens to shit talkers, so.

• 1:14:03Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, he does?

• 1:14:04Speaker 02

  Well, he mentioned, I don't know if he listens, but he knows what it is. So I feel like he knows what's coming.

• 1:14:08Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, no.

• 1:14:10Speaker 01

  Maybe.

• 1:14:11Speaker 02

  So we do a, we do a question, depends on the guest, but have you ever played Mary Kill?

• 1:14:18Speaker 01

  Um, my wife is here.

• 1:14:20Speaker 02

  Okay, but this is, this is, these are random, uh.

• 1:14:24Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, it's not like.

• 1:14:25Speaker 02

  It's not like that.

• 1:14:26Speaker 01

  No, of course, yeah, I have, yeah.

• 1:14:28Speaker 02

  Okay, so, so it's, your three categories are running, shooting a bow and wrestling.

• 1:14:34Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, what?

• 1:14:35Speaker 01

  All right, okay, and you're going to say a bear or some shit, and right, okay.

• 1:14:38Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, so you gotta, you gotta, marry, kill those three.

• 1:14:42Speaker 01

  Right, okay, ru- running, wrestling and a bow, right, okay.

• 1:14:47Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, so go ahead, which one are you gonna marry?

• 1:14:51Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:14:51Cameron Hanes?

  So the mar-

• 1:14:52Speaker 01

  Are you not, are you not giving me like things that I need to say?

• 1:14:55Cameron Hanes?

  No, cause see, you, you marry the one of those three that you want to do the rest of your life. It's like you married your wife, you're gonna be with her the rest of your life. So you gotta marry one of them, you gotta kill one, which means you're never doing it again.

• 1:15:09Cameron Hanes?

  And then you fu- and that's just a one night, was just for fun. You can do it one more time.

• 1:15:14Speaker 01

  And this, and this is for running, wrestling and?

• 1:15:17Speaker 02

  Shooting a bow.

• 1:15:18Cameron Hanes?

  Shooting bow.

• 1:15:19Speaker 01

  Eh, marry, marry fu- which other one?

• 1:15:24Cameron Hanes?

  Kill, so the kill, you're never doing it again.

• 1:15:27Speaker 01

  Never doing it again.

• 1:15:27Cameron Hanes?

  It might be the bow, since it's your first day.

• 1:15:29Speaker 01

  You know what, I'm fu- gonna break your heart here.

• 1:15:32Cameron Hanes?

  Oh.

• 1:15:32Speaker 01

  I'm gonna break your heart, you're, you're making me answer.

• 1:15:35Cameron Hanes?

  No, hard, yeah, good job, James.

• 1:15:37Speaker 01

  I know, yeah, I know, but that's the relationship done, James.

• 1:15:40Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:41Speaker 01

  Well done.

• 1:15:42Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm gonna kill the bow.

• 1:15:44Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 1:15:44Speaker 01

  I'm so sorry, and you know why, because I already love running and wrestling is a new.

• 1:15:50Cameron Hanes?

  You gotta, you gotta love wrestling if you're gonna go to the UFC, so you gotta develop that love.

• 1:15:55Speaker 01

  Eh, and then I have to, which other two?

• 1:15:58Cameron Hanes?

  Gotta marry, marry and, and.

• 1:16:03Speaker 01

  Well, I'll, I'll, what if, I'll marry, I'll marry running.

• 1:16:09Cameron Hanes?

  So you're gonna do that?

• 1:16:10Speaker 01

  That's for the long, that's the long run.

• 1:16:11Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, so then, wrestling, you got one more shot.

• 1:16:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:15Cameron Hanes?

  You better make the most.

• 1:16:18Speaker 01

  Am I difficult?

• 1:16:20Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, see, that's kinda hard, isn't it? All right, what else you got?

• 1:16:23Speaker 02

  Uh, earlier, you and I kinda talked about how ultras aren't necessarily great for physical, the physical aspect of your training.

• 1:16:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:31Speaker 02

  But it can be great for the mental part. So how much of, you know, the fight game is kind of past just technique and training and comes down to mentality when you're in the ring?

• 1:16:44Speaker 01

  You know, a lot of it is, you're not going to fight at the highest level if you don't have technique. You're not going to fight champions and be the best if you're not good at, you know, the art. You still need to have some fucking savvy of doing that.

• 1:17:03Speaker 01

  However, it's when you go through adversity, the psyche comes into it, the mental side of it. Like for example, the fight I showed you when I was getting my leg blown to pieces.

• 1:17:17Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:18Speaker 01

  All technique went out the window. I didn't have any technique because my leg was shut down. I couldn't put any pressure on my leg to throw punches. So technique's out the window. The only thing I had there.

• 1:17:28Cameron Hanes?

  Heart.

• 1:17:28Speaker 01

  Heart and control of what I do next.

• 1:17:31Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:32Speaker 01

  And that is quit or stay in the fight one second more, stay in the fight one second more, one second more, one second more. And that's it. And that comes down to, I have that kind of mindset through running. When you're running for long times yourself, that is a lot of the time what you think about. I would fucking love to quit right now.

• 1:17:50Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:50Speaker 01

  How good would it be to just fucking walk the rest of this?

• 1:17:52Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:53Speaker 01

  But all you say to yourself is, you just set little check markers and go, I'm going to run to that pole.

• 1:17:57Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:17:57Speaker 01

  Now I'm going to run to the next pole. Now I'm going to run, and you just put one foot in front of the other. And, you know, with running, I take a lot of the mental stuff into the dark side of fighting.

• 1:18:07Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:08Speaker 01

  But of course, you still need to have technique, you still need to have all that first. The other part of it is, it's a backup plan.

• 1:18:16Cameron Hanes?

  And you don't know when that's going to come up.

• 1:18:18Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:18:19Cameron Hanes?

  You didn't know your leg was going to get destroyed.

• 1:18:20Speaker 01

  Of course not.

• 1:18:21Cameron Hanes?

  It would be nice to be like, oh, I'm more technically sound, I'm better at the art than you are, I'm going to win. But shit happens.

• 1:18:29Speaker 01

  If that was the case, I wouldn't be the champion.

• 1:18:32Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:32Speaker 01

  Because I ain't technically better than anybody. But I just, I'm just willing to go to the dark places and stay there for longer.

• 1:18:39Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that's true. It's like, sometimes that's what it comes down. I know, like, I was, I don't know. Oh, my son's wife ran the marathon too, right? She was struggling at the end. It was her first marathon, which a marathon's a long way, right? And he said that at that time, it's like four or five hours out there, four hours out there, but it was like a battlefield. People were laying on the side of the road. Everybody's limping, you know, they'd been out there.

• 1:19:07Speaker 01

  P R or E R.

• 1:19:08Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, and that, I was thinking about that and I was like, that sucks because I've been in situations like that where you're just so exhausted. But also, what also is hard and sucks in its own way is like, I ran the race too. And when you're pushing, I was pushing at my limit, I felt. You know how like, you're running and your calf gets tight and you stop and you push on a light pole or something, kind of stretch it out? And that feels good. It's a little break. When you're running at your absolute max, there's no stopping and stretching out your calf.

• 1:19:43Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:19:43Cameron Hanes?

  Or taking a piss. Like, I'd stop and take pisses all the time and you get a little break. And like, but when you're like pushing in a race and every stride and every, it's an effort every single time and you, there's not one second to spare. That is hard.

• 1:20:01Speaker 01

  I, because it's just like, everything's hurting.

• 1:20:04Cameron Hanes?

  Everything.

• 1:20:04Speaker 01

  And it's just.

• 1:20:05Cameron Hanes?

  Six minute mile and you're just like, just, all you want to do is like, slow down.

• 1:20:11Speaker 01

  And, and you know what the worst part is? If, when you're running at that kind of pace, see when you do stop. Try, start again is even worse.

• 1:20:20Cameron Hanes?

  Takes forever to get, like. I've went running with people and said, hey, I gotta take a piss, just go ahead and go. Thirty seconds, it looks like they're five miles away. How, how did you get that far in this time? So yeah, when you're not moving and you had been moving quick, yeah, you lose a lot of ground. Yeah, but anyway, it's a, I don't know. I love that mental strength. Did you have anything else?

• 1:20:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:46Speaker 02

  Obviously, you've talked a lot about how Muay Thai and other forms of fighting are like an art form. So, but you guys also mentioned how like Thailand is kind of stuck in their ways. So how do you balance the history and the art form of fighting with kind of the new knowledge of nutrition and training and recovery?

• 1:21:12Speaker 01

  For a long time, I carried all the culture and stuff like in Muay Thai over, but I wouldn't say I definitely not fell out of love with Muay Thai. I still love Muay Thai. I just love the new version of Muay Thai because of One Championship. So in One Championship, like they don't do like, but in Muay Thai, they do this. It's called a Wai Kru. It's the big dance that they do before they fight. But you know, for a spectator that doesn't understand the culture of Muay Thai is very boring. People don't want to see people like dancing before they fight. People are there to watch people fight. And in One Championship

• 1:21:52Speaker 01

  now, they've westernized it so that it's, it's good for spectators. So I've kind of evolved into that where that is the kind of thing that I love now. And then the thing about how I've took like the training and all that stuff is honestly, just always willing to learn. You know what I mean? Like just doing what all the greats are doing and you know, listening to like the Huberman podcast and like just, there's always just trying to learn and always try to take in information and try and always just try things. Try it. If it works, it works. If it doesn't, well, at least you tried it. It's better than than

• 1:22:35Speaker 01

  regretting it. And so that I would say, I don't know if I've explained that that well, but that's, that's it really just.

• 1:22:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, the game's evolving and you just need to choose to either evolve with it.

• 1:22:51Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:52Speaker 01

  Or be stuck.

• 1:22:53Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that makes sense. I was curious, you said that they do like the run in the morning, come back and run again. How far are they running over there?

• 1:23:02Speaker 01

  This is, this is the thing. The trainers are telling them to go out and run 10 kilometres. But the, the truth is they go out and they go by 7-11 and they go, they all go buy snacks in 7-11 and then they'll go walk for like a kilometre or something and they'll just wait an hour and then they'll pour water over themselves and then come back into the gym like they're sweating. And I've seen this, I've been in many gyms in Thailand, this happens first hand. Because of the thing we spoke about at the start, there's no intention.

• 1:23:31Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:31Speaker 01

  You've got me, the Westerner, who I, I choose to come over and learn and I want to get better at Muay Thai. I'm going out, I'm running the 10K.

• 1:23:38Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:39Speaker 01

  While they're just, and then I come back into the gym and I'm, I'm really tired, 35 degrees over there.

• 1:23:43Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:44Speaker 01

  And then these guys are just throwing me about in the clinch because they haven't done the 10K.

• 1:23:47Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:23:48Speaker 01

  They've just kiddied on that they've done it.

• 1:23:49Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:50Speaker 01

  And then, and, and then that's, yeah, it's, but what they're meant to do, they're meant to do 10K and then in the mornings. So all gyms are different, but they'll always run in the morning, then they'll maybe come back and hit the pads or they'll, or they'll clinch. And not, not hit the pads, just hit a bag.

• 1:24:04Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:05Speaker 01

  Or maybe just do like push-ups and abs and pull-ups.

• 1:24:08Cameron Hanes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:24:08Speaker 01

  And then in the afternoon, sometimes they'll run again, then that's where they're serious.

• 1:24:12Cameron Hanes?

  Back to 7-11.

• 1:24:14Speaker 01

  And, and in the afternoon, it's normally a shorter run. It's not as, as long, but probably.

• 1:24:19Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:21Speaker 01

  And then they come back and that's when they do their hard pads and their sparring and their clinching and stuff as well.

• 1:24:26Cameron Hanes?

  So is it pretty much all day of training?

• 1:24:28Speaker 01

  It's not all day, so they'll train, they'll do their running in the morning and train for like 40 minutes an hour.

• 1:24:33Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 1:24:34Speaker 01

  In the morning. And then in the afternoon, it can be between. Two hours to three, three and a half.

• 1:24:41Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 1:24:42Speaker 01

  It depends, all gyms I've been to are different. Um, the gym I'm at now is very, um, kind of like, they're evolving. Cause it's a very westernized gym for being in Thailand. Like a lot of MMA guys and everybody comes over there now. And they just like, you can do all your good work in an hour and a half.

• 1:25:02Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 1:25:03Speaker 01

  Like everything you need to do, you can get your pads.

• 1:25:05Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:06Speaker 01

  You clinch if you have to, you spar if you have to, you just, there's no need to like prolong.

• 1:25:11Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:12Speaker 01

  If you're training really hard, you don't have to, like this, I hear a lot of people say that, oh, like, and when they're in fight camp, oh, I train like three or four times a day. And I'm like, how?

• 1:25:21Cameron Hanes?

  How hard are you going?

• 1:25:22Speaker 01

  How hard are you, cause, cause for me, it's not about the number, it's about what you put into each one.

• 1:25:29Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:25:30Speaker 01

  So it's like, I could train once a day and I bet you I'm putting in more than you're putting in four or five sessions.

• 1:25:37Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:37Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? Like, so like, I can, I can never train that amount of times during a, a day. Cause like, when I train, like, I'm redlining.

• 1:25:46Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:25:47Speaker 01

  Like, cause I'm training for explosivity and speed and power and like, I'm, in a fight, you're training to be a cannon for three minutes.

• 1:25:55Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:56Speaker 01

  You're never trying to cruise, you are redlining, you're trying to hit this guy as hard as you can, as much times as it takes until he goes down. And hitting somebody as hard as you can is like four hundred meter repeats or two hundred meters.

• 1:26:09Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, it takes a lot.

• 1:26:10Speaker 01

  Fast. And, and that, and that, so for me doing that every single day is, it is very difficult.

• 1:26:17Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:18Speaker 01

  Cause I'm not cruising anything.

• 1:26:19Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:26:20Speaker 01

  And so when people say they train four or five times, I'm like, ah, how, how hard can you be training with if you can do that?

• 1:26:25Cameron Hanes?

  I get that, yeah. They're running and going to seven eleven reminds me of when I was a little kid, I'd have to go, supposed to go brush my teeth and I'd just go in and get my toothbrush wet.

• 1:26:37Cameron Hanes?

  So my mom would, okay, good job. I got the toothbrush.

• 1:26:42Speaker 01

  You didn't smell your breath though?

• 1:26:45Cameron Hanes?

  And that's why I have rotten teeth.

• 1:26:48Cameron Hanes?

  And they're gold. Um, yeah, that's, uh, yeah, that's interesting. I was just curious about the running part, but oh, I saw what I was gonna say too.

• 1:26:56Speaker 01

  And they run mega slow.

• 1:26:58Cameron Hanes?

  Do they?

• 1:26:59Speaker 01

  It's like, again, there's no intention. There's, there's nothing like it's specific to a fight.

• 1:27:03Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:27:03Speaker 01

  Like you're doing three minute repeats, short recovery time, three minute repeat. Like there's, there's no intention of, or like science for it to help in a fight. They just get told to go out and run, run 10 kilometers and they're like doing it in like an hour and five minutes. Like they're running slow and they're just,

• 1:27:20Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:20Speaker 01

  They're just plodding. Those like, it's pointless.

• 1:27:22Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:27:22Speaker 01

  It is genuine. It's just pointless.

• 1:27:24Cameron Hanes?

  If anything, it would be developing discipline if they're actually doing the whole thing.

• 1:27:29Speaker 01

  Yeah. That's another story.

• 1:27:31Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. So like with the science part too, that you mentioned, you know, like an ultra right now, it's carbs per hour, calories per hour, getting your salt in. Um, even like I did a ketone before I ran my marathon yesterday, right before. So it's like, you know, when you talk about these big fights and you're going to need 25 minutes of fuel out there, right? For a championship fight.

• 1:27:56Speaker 01

  For me, 15 minutes.

• 1:27:57Cameron Hanes?

  Or 15 minutes. Yes. Five, three minutes run. Yeah. How are you taking in carbs right before that for energy? Or have you eaten a lot of carbs all day? What are you thinking about for fuel?

• 1:28:07Speaker 01

  For a fight day?

• 1:28:08Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:08Speaker 01

  For a fight day. So obviously I weigh in the day before. And then after I weigh in, obviously whatever the amount of water that I've cut is the first thing that has to go back in. We have to get all the fluids back in.

• 1:28:21Cameron Hanes?

  Like, how do you know how much water? Just from your, your body weight cut?

• 1:28:24Speaker 01

  No. So from whatever I cut, they see the morning that I start my weight cut.

• 1:28:28Cameron Hanes?

  And you just know that that's like five pounds or what?

• 1:28:31Speaker 01

  Well, I weigh myself in the morning. So I need to be 155, which is 70 kilograms. I wake up in the morning and I'm 74 kilograms. Well, I need to go in the sauna until I lose four kilo.

• 1:28:41Cameron Hanes?

  And then you gotta drink that four kilos back.

• 1:28:43Speaker 01

  The first thing I do is replace the fluids that I've lost.

• 1:28:46Cameron Hanes?

  What, what, what do you replace it with? Just water?

• 1:28:48Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:28:49Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 1:28:49Speaker 01

  No, no.

• 1:28:49Cameron Hanes?

  Electrolytes?

• 1:28:50Speaker 01

  Yeah. Cause if you just drink water, it, you, so as a fighter, we stop eating salts and carbs five days before the weigh in. Because water, uh, salt holds water. And in order for us to cut weight. Um, we have to have.

• 1:29:07Cameron Hanes?

  Get rid of the water, yeah.

• 1:29:08Speaker 01

  We need to have to get rid of, eh, rid of water. So they can't be salt in our body.

• 1:29:12Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:12Speaker 01

  So we need to stop ourselves of salt.

• 1:29:14Cameron Hanes?

  And doesn't carbs hold water too?

• 1:29:16Speaker 01

  We don't have carbs either.

• 1:29:17Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 1:29:17Speaker 01

  So we're gonna ke- ketone diet for five days, which is high protein, high fat, which is awful.

• 1:29:25Cameron Hanes?

  For fuel is terrible.

• 1:29:27Speaker 01

  Awful.

• 1:29:27Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:28Speaker 01

  So we do that and then it comes to weight cut, the water comes out is easier.

• 1:29:31Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:29:31Speaker 01

  Because we've already done this process.

• 1:29:33Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:34Speaker 01

  And then so putting it back on, um, carbonated drinks, electrolyte, sodium, honey, fa- fast acting sugars. Eh, before I've actually put like half a caffeine tablet in, in it as well. So anyway, I'll get, I'll get the, whatever I've lost, put that back in. And I'll start eating snacks, like you never go into straight onto, um, solid foods.

• 1:29:57Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, your stomach's kind of.

• 1:29:58Speaker 01

  Exactly, exactly. So we'll start by, we'll just be eating like a banana or like sugary wine gums and sweets. And then from there, once our belly feels good, we'll move on to like kinda fast acting carbs, like I always have like, eh, just bread with honey.

• 1:30:13Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:30:14Speaker 01

  And then if your belly's feeling good, you just keep doing that for a while. And then eventually you start moving on to actual foods.

• 1:30:20Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:30:21Speaker 01

  And you're just going like same as like a carb load for racing, you're just eating any carb that you can see, that's what you're eating. Rice, pastas, just, you're just trying to carb load. And then the next day, the same, you're just getting as much carbs in.

• 1:30:34Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:30:35Speaker 01

  As you can. And then obviously for like when you fight, it's just a matter of eating as much as you can. To the point that you're not so full, going into the changing room and getting ready to get warmed up and. And one championship, we're not allowed to have any outside food in the changing room anymore, which is in my opinion, quite silly.

• 1:31:00Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:00Speaker 01

  But before, like I would just be eating like little sugary sweets.

• 1:31:04Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 1:31:05Speaker 01

  Right up until I walk out.

• 1:31:06Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 1:31:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:31:08Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. I was just curious because you know, our, our food, like the decision making has to be so quick. And it reminded me of, I was listening to, uh, Rogan had on this F1 trainer, you know, F1 race cars.

• 1:31:22Speaker 01

  Of course I.

• 1:31:23Cameron Hanes?

  They are so, I did not know, I mean, I should have known, I just don't know that sport. But they are so particular on food, coffee, caffeine for the drivers. I mean, cause their decision has to be perfect.

• 1:31:40Speaker 01

  That will be like for like cognitive function of the absolute highest level.

• 1:31:46Cameron Hanes?

  But isn't fighting like your reaction, isn't it, wouldn't it be similar?

• 1:31:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely is, but you, what you have to remember is that we've been drilling this, these things for six weeks, eight weeks, every single day. So that's installed in us.

• 1:32:02Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:02Speaker 01

  So then when it comes to fighting, it's not so much thinking, it's reacting.

• 1:32:08Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 1:32:08Speaker 01

  And that's kinda, so that's how the training camp and the drilling has to go perfect. And then when it comes to fighting, it's just all the things that you've been like, okay, when he throws a low kick, this is my reaction. If this, when this happens, this is my reaction, it's all just reaction time.

• 1:32:22Cameron Hanes?

  I was just thinking, like, we know, we talked about that one where, I can't remember what it was, but you did something, I said,

• 1:32:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32:31Cameron Hanes?

  Your hand should have been up here.

• 1:32:32Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:32:33Cameron Hanes?

  I was wondering if like, more dialed in, would, would you have done that?

• 1:32:39Speaker 01

  Um, I, I, I can't lie to you, I was pretty dialed in that fight. I was a, as good as it gets, no excuses for me, like, I felt really good, I was so, as most confident, I was, I was so certain I was winning the championship that day. Like, training camp went perfect, the weight cut was amazing, the, like, like, the, the warm up before the fight, everything felt really good.

• 1:33:01Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:33:02Speaker 01

  That is just, you know, fighting is crazy because you have this window that if you don't have full concentration for one second.

• 1:33:12Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:13Speaker 01

  And how little is one second? Lights go out and you lose and that's the crazy thing about fighting. It doesn't matter how per, it's, it's, you know how difficult it is to be that locked in for that period? And then I knew it was even, even longer, 25 minutes. It's a very, very difficult thing to stay dialed in for that long and losing concentration for one second can. But for me, it wasn't losing concentration. It was just being overconfident in my strike. I just thought I'm going to eat you up with this body shot and I ended up taking one myself. And the rest of the fight, I learned from my mistake.

• 1:33:47Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:47Speaker 01

  Because anytime I went in for the body shot, like I could see the left hand, like I knew what he was doing and I was like a bit more cautious.

• 1:33:54Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, okay.

• 1:33:55Speaker 01

  We live and we learn.

• 1:33:56Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:56Speaker 01

  Unfortunately, sometimes you need to get punched in the mouth.

• 1:33:59Cameron Hanes?

  For sure.

• 1:33:59Speaker 01

  To learn the hard lessons.

• 1:34:00Cameron Hanes?

  I understand. Yeah. That's the best way to learn usually. Yeah, that was just interesting. I was like, cause I, you know, I'm fascinated about the science and improvements, like when it comes to running and you know, with bow hunting. I'm always trying to be like, how can I get to a higher level than I've been? And this fueling and the diet and the supplements, like the BBC and the Wolverine stack and like all this stuff that's kind of getting. I'm always just like, okay, what is this going to do? I mean, can I get better? Is this going to help me?

• 1:34:31Speaker 01

  Put like a few questions before, like I was saying, like I'm the exact same. All you can do is try it. You know what I mean? Like be your own little guinea pig, like trial and error. If it doesn't work, you try that.

• 1:34:43Cameron Hanes?

  Like for this marathon I just did, I wanted to carb load and then I'm like, well, I gotta take a shit before this race, right? So I'm going to stop eating 12 hours before I leave for the marathon. So I'm like, can I leave for the marathon at six? I gotta stop eating at six at night.

• 1:35:04Speaker 01

  What, what was your thought process for that?

• 1:35:06Cameron Hanes?

  So I could get the food down so I could go to the bathroom. So there'd be no food, like the food would go through my body and then I could get rid of it. I'd still do my morning carb load, but that'd be in my stomach, kind of getting broke down to use for the race. The stuff from the day before, yes, I pulled the carbs out for the fuel, but I don't need the waste.

• 1:35:26Speaker 01

  Right, okay, that makes sense.

• 1:35:28Cameron Hanes?

  I'm gonna do that 12 hours before, then I'm gonna eat in the morning, I'm gonna get up.

• 1:35:32Speaker 01

  I thought you didn't eat in the morning?

• 1:35:33Cameron Hanes?

  No, I did eat in the morning too, yeah. So I had carbs in the morning, but I just was worried about, because we do this huge carb load. And you know, like when you go on a run and your stomach's full, it's the worst.

• 1:35:44Speaker 01

  The worst feeling ever.

• 1:35:45Cameron Hanes?

  I can't run a six minute mile doing that. So I'm like, okay.

• 1:35:48Speaker 01

  You're just, you're just, you're just trying to keep it down the full time?

• 1:35:51Cameron Hanes?

  Right. So it's like, I wanted, I didn't want to have to deal with that. And then I'm like, okay, also, I have this routine I do every day, my cold plunge, my sauna, my whatever. So I'm like, okay, the race starts at seven, I'm getting up at four. And I got up at four and started this whole process.

• 1:36:07Speaker 01

  Do you do sauna and everything before the race?

• 1:36:09Cameron Hanes?

  Everything. And ran the best race I've ever run.

• 1:36:12Speaker 01

  There you go.

• 1:36:13Cameron Hanes?

  So it's like, the point is, and I tell my kids this too, is like, everything matters. Everything.

• 1:36:21Speaker 01

  Be intentional.

• 1:36:22Cameron Hanes?

  Everything matters.

• 1:36:23Speaker 01

  Everything you do, you need to have.

• 1:36:24Cameron Hanes?

  Some stuff matters this much, some stuff matters this much. It all matters. So I did everything and it paid off.

• 1:36:32Speaker 01

  There you go.

• 1:36:32Cameron Hanes?

  But anyway, so I just get, I get kind of just obsessed about like this knowledge and like, how can I get better and what could I tweak?

• 1:36:40Speaker 01

  I'm the exact same.

• 1:36:41Cameron Hanes?

  You know.

• 1:36:42Speaker 01

  That's exactly my mindset.

• 1:36:43Cameron Hanes?

  Is it? I love it.

• 1:36:44Speaker 01

  It's always been, and that's like getting into running and things like that is like, people like before, because I was running, I was always going on to like, people like talking about me, he's like, he's gonna crush his knees, he's not gonna have a long Muay Thai career.

• 1:36:58Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:59Speaker 01

  And I'm like, yeah, it looks like that from the outside, but all I'm gaining is all this knowledge and so.

• 1:37:07Cameron Hanes?

  And it's be people like I had that job for twenty seven years. People, when I was in my thirties, I'd be over running Pisc every day and they'd say, keep that up. You won't be able to run after you're forty. And I'm like, and now I'm almost sixty. I run every day. It's like, no, my bodies, I always, I told them, I'm like, your body gets used to what you ask of it.

• 1:37:27Speaker 01

  Always.

• 1:37:27Cameron Hanes?

  If you don't ask much, it's not going to give you much. If you ask a lot, it's going to give you a lot.

• 1:37:32Speaker 01

  It adapts.

• 1:37:33Cameron Hanes?

  I asked my body for a lot for decades and it's given me everything I wanted.

• 1:37:38Speaker 01

  It's funny that you say that. I've always said this as well. I always say our body, our body's like a, a machine and whatever we want to put it through, at the start, it might be difficult. At the start, it might have little like oil leaks or like little tweaks with the, with the bolts or whatever.

• 1:37:58Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:58Speaker 01

  But eventually it will adapt and it will do whatever we want it, like want it to do, no matter how difficult it is.

• 1:38:05Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, for sure. It's, a body's amazing. It's our minds. Our minds need to be convinced sometimes, just, hey, do, do this, put in the work. Everything matters. Do it. Trust me. And we have a hard time doing that. But if you do, sky's the limit.

• 1:38:21Speaker 01

  But that, it's the mind first, isn't it? Because the body, the mind will quit before the body does.

• 1:38:27Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:28Speaker 01

  So we need, we need to have control of that.

• 1:38:31Cameron Hanes?

  Need it all. Yeah. I love it. But I love your mindset. I mean, because it sounds like we have a similar mindset about just self-improvement, just trying to get that, how do we get that next little edge over everyone else?

• 1:38:44Speaker 01

  And I would say like every fight camp, so many fighters that I know, and they're just like,

• 1:38:51Speaker 01

  they reach this peak of a fight camp and then after the fight, they just go and live not like athletes.

• 1:38:58Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:58Speaker 01

  They'll go out and they'll eat bad food and they'll drink and they won't train as hard as they were training in fight camp.

• 1:39:04Cameron Hanes?

  Patty gets fricking fat as hell.

• 1:39:06Speaker 01

  He gets big. He gets big. I think he still grapples every day. I think he just loves food a little bit too much.

• 1:39:11Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:39:12Speaker 01

  I mean, like, he, he looks like he's still in the gym a lot. I mean, other, other, other boys like aren't even in the gym.

• 1:39:17Cameron Hanes?

  Not at the club.

• 1:39:18Speaker 01

  Aye. They're just doing other things that doesn't put them, so then when they go into the new fight camp. The barrier is always the same. They just go, they'll just try to get to there again.

• 1:39:30Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:30Speaker 01

  Whereas every time I go into a fight camp, I set a, I set a bar for myself.

• 1:39:35Cameron Hanes?

  Go past it.

• 1:39:36Speaker 01

  I want to go way past it each fight camp because then I'm carrying all the stuff that I've done in the last. If you're injured and stuff, then it's difficult.

• 1:39:43Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:39:43Speaker 01

  But if you come out of a fight reasonably fresh, you go straight back into training. Yeah, it doesn't have to be fight training because fight training is hard. It's miserable. But you know, you, you, you keep the fitness that you've got and you, you, you build on it a little bit and you build on the strength that you've done. And then when you go back into fight camp, you're, instead of being here, you're maybe just here. And now you've got all this space to push that bar again.

• 1:40:05Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:40:05Speaker 01

  And every fight camp, I'm looking to push the bar, push the bar. How can I be better than the last fight? How can I be better than the last fight?

• 1:40:11Cameron Hanes?

  I love that. Yeah. Do you do, uh, you know, the lights? Do you do those?

• 1:40:16Speaker 01

  Um, I don't. I haven't done them too much. I, I don't know what you're talking about. I think they're great. Um, but I haven't done them too much.

• 1:40:24Cameron Hanes?

  I was just curious when we were talking about like different foods and supplements or even this ketone. Like, cause you could measure how quick you relax, your reactions were based on what you ate the day before or with this food. And then do it again and be like, I'm a little quicker, I'm a little quicker with, with, and just like, you do that enough times and you're like, okay, this is what I need to do to have the best reactions possible.

• 1:40:50Speaker 01

  That, that.

• 1:40:51Cameron Hanes?

  And just like, and I, I was talking to this, uh, another professional runner. Uh, he won the gold in the 1500 at the last Olympics, but there's this whole thing about double threshold training, which means.

• 1:41:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, the, the Norwegian guy.

• 1:41:04Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah. Uh, Jacob.

• 1:41:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:41:07Cameron Hanes?

  And so he was training twice a day hard and I was just like, cause I was thinking out of the box and I asked Cole, I said, what if you, what if you could train three days or three times a day hard? If you didn't care what time of day it was, like you would be like, I need to train. Then I'm going to be off for six hours, take a nap, train again, off for six hours, take a nap, training. Like maybe one of the trainings was at two in the morning, but you're still getting the rest. So you got, you've got three training sessions in when the most anybody else is getting is two. Over time, you're going to be so much better.

• 1:41:42Speaker 01

  Oh, a hundred percent.

• 1:41:43Cameron Hanes?

  Cause anyway, I'm always just thinking about what could we think outside the box to get an edge over everyone?

• 1:41:49Speaker 01

  I love that.

• 1:41:49Cameron Hanes?

  Anyway.

• 1:41:50Speaker 01

  That I'm the same, but like that's, I think that's how I got so good at Muay Thai so quick. Because the day that I started it, I was straight on YouTube and I was just obsessed with watching fights and watching, I wasn't just watching fights, I would watch like training, camps and like behind the scenes. I was just totally obsessed with it and I would just try and copy everything.

• 1:42:10Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:42:11Speaker 01

  And I think that's how I got so good, but just being totally obsessed on how do I get better?

• 1:42:15Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, just immersed in the life.

• 1:42:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:42:17Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, that's what it takes. You can't just dabble in it and be great. You can't dabble and think you're gonna be a champion.

• 1:42:23Speaker 01

  That's what we spoke about earlier on. It's like,

• 1:42:24Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:25Speaker 01

  People would love for us to sit here and say, right, how do you become what you've became and how are you one of the best runners in the world, the best bow hunter in the world? How am I the champion? You just train a few times a week and-

• 1:42:38Cameron Hanes?

  Just have fun.

• 1:42:39Speaker 01

  Yeah. It ain't, it's not the answer. People want us to say that.

• 1:42:43Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:43Speaker 01

  But it's not the answer.

• 1:42:44Cameron Hanes?

  No.

• 1:42:45Speaker 01

  And the answer that they want, deep down, they know what the answer is.

• 1:42:49Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:50Speaker 01

  They just want us to say something else.

• 1:42:51Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm. And then when you tell them the real answer, they're like, I don't have time for that.

• 1:42:56Speaker 01

  You know what I love? I seen a video, I seen a video of a fan, Goggins is out running and it's like, it's a hot day and he's out himself and the guy stops him and he's like, oh, Goggins, I'm down right now. I'd really love you to give me some inspiration, some motivation. And Goggins is like, do you see anybody out here right now? He's like, do I have to say anything?

• 1:43:18Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:19Speaker 01

  What you see, this is your fucking motivation.

• 1:43:21Cameron Hanes?

  That's right.

• 1:43:22Speaker 01

  People, people want you to say the thing, but the thing is, is he sees him out here himself. Nobody's there. It's far too hot to be running. What more do you need them to say?

• 1:43:32Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:33Speaker 01

  Action speaks louder than words.

• 1:43:34Cameron Hanes?

  That's it. Goggins has another one that I'd love and it's so true, but he just says, hey, there's no part-time savages.

• 1:43:42Speaker 01

  Love that.

• 1:43:43Cameron Hanes?

  Either you're savage or you're not. And most people aren't.

• 1:43:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:43:48Cameron Hanes?

  But you can't just half-ass, there's no part-time. You're not a badass half the time and then soft. It's just like, no, this is full-time, baby. Did you have anything else? I've got one more. Okay.

• 1:43:59Speaker 02

  So there's this backyard ultra runner that we're fans of, but I really like his mindset. And I kind of wanted to get your opinion if the fighting mindset's kind of similar. But his first two backyard races, he was really focused on winning and he lost both of them. And then he had a mindset shift where he was, his goal instead of winning was to meet a new version of himself, to push himself further than he ever had before. And for whatever reason, the result of that has been he's won his last, you know, five or six backyard ultras. Do you think that's a good mindset to have with fighting or should you always go in with the purpose of winning?

• 1:44:39Speaker 01

  So I think that's an amazing mindset for fighting, not so much. It's not that it's not a good mindset for fighting, but you know, fighting isn't about taking part. It's never about taking part. It's about winning at all costs.

• 1:44:55Speaker 02

  Winning only.

• 1:44:55Speaker 01

  Because if you don't win, you can get hurt. And I don't mean hurt like your legs are messed up. I mean like life threatening damage.

• 1:45:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:45:04Speaker 01

  Brain, you know, you know, you can get really hurt. This mindset, however, maybe not so much for fighting, but me personally, I love it. Because yeah, it's just, instead of, because you're saying you want to win. So it's like, it's like to impress other people. But then it sounds like the mindset shift is like he's went within and now he's only looking for self-improvement. It's like he's got the blinkers on like a horse. He now doesn't care about other people.

• 1:45:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:45:36Speaker 01

  He only cares about pushing himself to his limits.

• 1:45:39Speaker 02

  Focus on what matters.

• 1:45:41Speaker 01

  But in doing this little mindset change, it's better though. I mean, he is still battling, but he's not set such as big expectation. And with this big expectation comes with all this pressure and, and yeah, I think, I don't know if I explained that very well, but.

• 1:45:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, that makes sense to me.

• 1:45:58Speaker 01

  For me, fighting like. Yeah, and so training camp is you can try and be the best version of yourself every time, or you can have this mindset singularly in training sessions. So I like, I like this for like, not, not, not the fight itself, but for like, maybe every session on the lead up to the fight is, okay, I'm going to try and be better than I was yesterday. I'm going to try and be better than I was yesterday. I'm going to try and this. I'm going to see if my recovery is getting, what, just everything. When it comes to fighting, there's only one thing on your mind.

• 1:46:32Cameron Hanes?

  Just win, baby.

• 1:46:33Speaker 01

  First or last. If you ain't first, you're last.

• 1:46:35Cameron Hanes?

  I love it.

• 1:46:36Speaker 01

  That's it.

• 1:46:37Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that, that makes sense to me. That's a good, good answer for sure. But, uh, man, what a fun discussion.

• 1:46:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. I've loved it.

• 1:46:45Cameron Hanes?

  I mean.

• 1:46:45Speaker 01

  Absolutely loved it.

• 1:46:46Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Super thankful, Nico.

• 1:46:48Speaker 01

  Thank you so much for having me here.

• 1:46:49Cameron Hanes?

  Thank you so much for coming.

• 1:46:51Speaker 01

  Absolute pleasure.

• 1:46:51Cameron Hanes?

  First person ever from Scotland here. You got the Scotland title here. Thank you very much. All right, guys. I hope you guys enjoyed this discussion. This is Nico. Give him a follow. He's a badass. Keep hammering.

• 1:47:03Speaker 01

  Peace out, guys.