#355 - Epstein, Atlantis & What's Really Hiding Under Antarctica | Jason Jorjani

Watch every episode ad-free & uncensored on Patreon: https://patreon.com/dannyjones Jason Jorjani is a philosopher & author who received his BA , MA & PhD at State University of New York at Stony Brook. Dr. Jorjani has taught courses on Comparative Religion, Ethics, Political Theory, and the History of Philosophy at the State University of New York. On this podcast, he explains Jeffrey Epstein's intelligence connections, eugenics interests, & his shared fascination with Maxwell regarding the lost city of Atlantis & UFO anti-gravity physics research. SPONSORS https://butcherbox.com/danny - Get free steak in every box for a year + $20 off your first box. https://vandycrisps.com - Use code DANNY for 25% off your first order. https://rag-bone.com - Get 20% off site-wide with code DANNY. https://whiterabbitenergy.com/?ref=DJP - Use code DJP for 20% off EPISODE LINKS @incendiaryideas https://x.com/Jason_Jorjani https://substack.com/@jasonrezajorjani https://jasonrezajorjani.com FOLLOW DANNY JONES https://www.instagram.com/dannyjones https://twitter.com/jonesdanny OUTLINE 00:00 - New Epstein files release 07:26 - What 2 Mossad operatives said about Epstein 15:35 - The Epstein angle that everyone ignores 25:38 - Mossad tried to recruit Jorjani 31:08 - Islam's Quran vs. the Christian Bible 37:52 - Global Muslim majority projected by 2050 46:04 - The #1 reason Jorjani supports Israel 01:02:04 - Iran 01:07:48 - What happened on 10/7 in Israel 01:14:14 - Who Epstein worked for 01:19:12 - American Nazis created the "deep state" 01:26:08 - Secret Nazi nuclear weapons 01:35:28 - Nazis had nuclear & UFO technology 01:48:46 - Suspicious details about Ghislaine Maxwell's father 01:53:07 - Hypatia of Alexandria was skinned alive by Christians 01:58:26 - Ghislaine Maxwell's obsession with Atlantis 02:19:05 - What secretly motivated Epstein 02:25:00 - Hard evidence of Atlantis & lost civilization 02:39:40 - Moon rocks & the Apollo psyop 02:44:18 - Ghislaine Maxwell's ex-husband & NSA of the seas 03:00:58 - What Ghislaine said about Trump 03:04:14 - The death of Robert Maxwell 03:14:58 - Belial: the rebels of Atlantis 03:25:27 - Death, rebirth & the afterlife Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 1:07Danny Jones?

  All right, Jason Giorgiani, welcome back.

• 1:09Speaker 02

  Thank you. It's always a pleasure to be with you, Danny.

• 1:11Danny Jones?

  I was completely blown away by your new Substack article on Ghislaine Maxwell and her Janet Atlantis pseudonym and her whole backstory tying to Atlantis and all this stuff.

• 1:26Danny Jones?

  And it's a super relevant topic because I believe that they just signed some sort of bill yesterday, right? To release 33,000 more Epstein documents?

• 1:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, they're supposed to be released by December 20th, but if I recall correctly, I think that's a Saturday. So probably, I think, Monday, December 22nd, we should see this drop.

• 1:53Speaker 02

  And I'm sure it's going to be, you know, judging by the emails that have already been leaked, this is probably going to be one of the largest political scandals of our time. One thing, though, about the Substack piece, it's actually not a recent Substack piece. I think I came out with that in July.

• 2:11Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:11Speaker 02

  And it's called, for people who want to find it, it's called Ocean Outlaw.

• 2:18Danny Jones?

  I'll link it below.

• 2:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, the subtitle has Ghislaine Maxwell's name. I think it's A Portrait of Ghislaine Maxwell. Ocean Outlaw: A Portrait of Ghislaine Maxwell. So she's the focus, but I mean, obviously, it gets extensively into Epstein as well.

• 2:35Speaker 02

  And let me just say at the outset, if that's where we want to start our conversation, that I drew from a plethora of sources to basically to compose this piece. I started researching her and Epstein's activities shortly after his second arrest in 2019. And the reason that I did that had to do with his involvement with the Dalton School, which was my alma mater, and I'll get into that in a second. Okay. But when I researched this, there are a number of sources that I drew from.

• 3:19Speaker 02

  And let me acknowledge those at the outset, and then I might, you know, go back and refer to, you know, any one of them if it occurs to me in the course of our conversation. One is Whitney Webb's book.

• 3:29Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah.

• 3:30Speaker 02

  One Nation Under Blackmail.

• 3:33Danny Jones?

  She's deep into this stuff.

• 3:36Speaker 02

  Yes, although I, I think that she is a little off in her interpretation of what was really going on here, and we can get into that in detail. But yeah, she was definitely a source. Ari Ben Menasha, a disgraced former Mossad agent who fell out with the Mossad and used to be an Israeli arms dealer. He's another source. Then Betty Maxwell, Elizabeth Maxwell, Robert Maxwell's wife and Ghislaine's mother, wrote a book titled "A Mind of My Own." And there's a lot of biographical material in there about Robert Maxwell. So that's a third source.

• 4:19Speaker 02

  There's this guy, Mike Benz, who has a YouTube channel. Yeah, he's been on here. Yeah, has he been? I missed that episode. So, yeah, he's done some good commentary on that as well. And he was very shrewd in analyzing the kinds of business deals, high finance deals, and like, energy sector deals that Epstein was involved with, and his connections to people like Adnan Khashoggi. And then a very important source is also Dark Journalist and his research on the connections between Maxwell and Atlantis, and, you know, how that basically helps us to decipher Jeffrey

• 5:02Speaker 02

  Epstein's fundamental motivations on a more esoteric and occult level. So those are all sources that I drew from to compose this piece. Oh, and then, of course, the title of the piece, "Ocean Outlaw," comes from a book called "Outlaw Ocean," which is written by Ian Urbina of the New York Times. And this guy, this New York Times reporter, basically spent months on a pirate ship, learning about international piracy, and how the extraterritorial waters, how the,

• 5:47Speaker 02

  you know, international waters that are outside the jurisdiction of any one nation-state are used as a territory for various, you know, extrajudicial activities. Okay? And Ghislaine Maxwell was fascinated by this guy's initially series of articles in the New York Times, which were then subsequently adapted into this book, "Outlaw Ocean." And during her days running the Terramar Foundation that she set up, she actually interviewed Ian Urbina herself. And, you know, if you can manage to dig through the piles of sex trafficking garbage that there are on the internet... You might find the needle in the haystack of Ghislaine Maxwell's interviews with

• 6:31Speaker 02

  Ian Urbina, which are very revealing, I think, of her motivations and her outlook.

• 6:36Danny Jones?

  Do you think the sex trafficking stuff isn't real?

• 6:40Speaker 02

  No, but I think the salaciousness of the, you know, madam sex trafficker, you know, underage prostitution ring narrative has been used to cover up what's really going on and that it is fundamentally a diversionary tactic.

• 7:01Danny Jones?

  But do you think it's not real?

• 7:05Speaker 02

  Clearly Epstein was using his modeling agency to hook up powerful, influential men with whom he had business dealings with underage women.

• 7:22Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 7:23Speaker 02

  Like, this is clearly the case.

• 7:24Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 7:26Speaker 02

  In fact, to tell you the truth, at one point when I was lobbying for regime change in Iran, this was 2019, I believe, that this meeting took place.

• 7:40Danny Jones?

  As a good Iranian does.

• 7:41Speaker 02

  Well, you know, I'm an American, but I'm of paternal Iranian descent.

• 7:47Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 7:48Speaker 02

  And I've spent decades at this point trying to facilitate a change of regime in that country, which, by the way, would be a great thing for the United States. I mean, the population of Iran is undoubtedly the single most pro-American population on the face of the earth, much more so than unfortunately any European country these days. America is wildly popular among Iranians, and so if the regime flipped there, United States would gain an incredible new ally with, you know, tremendous geostrategic significance. So, anyway, I was lobbying for this regime change, and, you know, we did a lot of that in Washington, but I also engaged the Israelis.

• 8:26Speaker 02

  And I believe it was 2019, because it was after Epstein had been arrested, but not long after, I had lunch in Midtown Manhattan at some very fancy Italian restaurant in Midtown Manhattan with two very high-level Mossad operatives, who were close, personal friends of Benjamin Netanyahu.

• 8:51Danny Jones?

  How did you arrange that?

• 8:57Speaker 02

  It was arranged by a construction magnate who was business partners with Donald Trump.

• 9:06Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 9:07Speaker 02

  Anyway, and he was at the table, this gentleman.

• 9:12Speaker 02

  So anyway, I'm sitting with these two guys and they're older guys, they're very successful businessmen. And so, as I said, Mossad operatives at a high level, they're not salaried agents. And I also think that-

• 9:23Danny Jones?

  You mean they're not officers, they're agents?

• 9:26Speaker 02

  They're not officers.

• 9:27Danny Jones?

  They're not officers.

• 9:28Speaker 02

  They're not assets either, which is another intelligence classification.

• 9:31Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 9:32Speaker 02

  Where you have somebody who's a, in one form or another, paid asset. They're not necessarily getting a salary, but they're being compensated for being an asset.

• 9:40Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 9:41Speaker 02

  You have files on them as an asset in the agency, right? So these guys were neither of those. And Jeffrey Epstein was neither of those.

• 9:48Danny Jones?

  So what the hell were they? What else can you be?

• 9:52Speaker 02

  When you're a very successful, well-connected businessman.

• 9:56Danny Jones?

  Uh huh.

• 9:58Speaker 02

  And your interests align with the interests of an intelligence service, or with the interests of a country that has a powerful intelligence service, you can be a witting collaborator and sort of facilitator for that agency. And I think in fact, that's what Jeffrey Epstein was, that, and we can get into that, we'll go back and, you know, get into this in detail. But as I understand it now, even more so than when I wrote that piece, Ocean Outlaw, I think that Epstein was a sort of witting collaborator and a high-level facilitator, both for the CIA and for the Mossad. I don't think he was an agent or an asset of either of those agencies.

• 10:41Speaker 02

  Anyway, I was sitting with these two guys, this is all to go to the sex trafficking. I was sitting with those guys and

• 10:50Speaker 02

  I said to the, I guess they asked me about my background and I said, you know, I went to the Dalton School. Pardon my French, I want to quote them directly, right? I said, I went to the Dalton School. One of them goes,

• 11:04Speaker 02

  "That's where that cocksucker Jeffrey taught."

• 11:08Speaker 02

  And the other one looks at him, he looks at the other guy and goes, "I told that motherfucker to be more careful. I told him to be more careful."

• 11:16Danny Jones?

  This is what year again?

• 11:17Speaker 02

  I think 2019.

• 11:19Danny Jones?

  Oh my god.

• 11:20Speaker 02

  And so the two of them are now going at it about Jeffrey Epstein, back and forth across. And I actually did not realize at that moment who they're talking about.

• 11:28Speaker 02

  But it became very clear because later in the conversation, they started talking about their own involvement with underage women. They were bragging to each other about like how young the women were that they, you know, were involved with and like, it was, it was, it was, it really turned my stomach. It was like, because they were talking about, you know, the expiration dates on the women that they were involved with and like how they passed them on to somebody else like when they're done with them and, you know. I had to deal with a lot of very unpleasant stuff like that in the course of political lobbying. And in fact, it's why I left that whole scene. Uh, because later on, when we were lobbying in Washington, you know, for regime change in Iran,

• 12:13Speaker 02

  got to the point where I was witness to conversations where basically people in the Iranian opposition were sitting with, you know, American businessmen and in advance, like selling off various national resources of Iran to various corporations. At which point I was like, fuck this. I, I, I want nothing to do with this kind of path to regime change in Iran. Anyway, point being, I know the thing about the underage women was real, simply from my conversation with these two guys. Uh, because clearly they were involved with him and they were partaking of that.

• 12:49Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I was not aware that you went to the Dalton School.

• 12:52Speaker 02

  Not only did I go to the Dalton School, Danny, but you know, I, let me say this upfront. It's certainly relevant to the conversation. I met Jeffrey Epstein on one occasion.

• 13:04Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 13:05Speaker 02

  Yes, for less than five minutes.

• 13:08Speaker 02

  And, you know, by the way, okay.

• 13:12Speaker 02

  You first invited me to come have this conversation like six months ago, something like that. After the piece came out, you read the piece and...

• 13:19Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 13:20Speaker 02

  And you might have noticed I was a little bit hesitant and, you know, last time we correspond, you're like, "What are you, don't, don't big time me after whatever you've been on."

• 13:28Danny Jones?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. After you go on my boy Jesse Michael's show, you can't, you can't go on the little Danny Jones show anymore.

• 13:33Speaker 02

  It had nothing to do with that. It had to do with the fact that, quite frankly, I'm uncomfortable having this conversation. It's interesting. We've discussed, you know, how the moon is hollow and there are like overlords, you know, managing the sociopolitical systems of Earth from the moon and, you know, Atlanteans hiding out under Antarctica and, you know, the Nazi angle in, in terms of the whole UFO phenomenon and so forth. But there's something about the Epstein scandal which connects those very high level, or, or you could say very deep level operations to a much more mundane, scummy stratum of

• 14:16Speaker 02

  human life, right? In a way that's particularly disturbing and also dangerous. Dangerous from a legal standpoint and dangerous in terms of how much of it involves organized crime. I mean, we know what mafias do.

• 14:32Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 14:32Speaker 02

  Okay. So, it's a, there has yet to be an interview that I've gone into where I felt uncomfortable about the subject matter. This is the first one. So if people notice, you know, a slight, you know, Cheney-esque parsimoniousness and, and restraint, that's why. It's, it's not a subject matter I really wanted to talk to, talk about. But here we are. Okay. So, yes, I met Jeffrey Epstein on one of his...

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• 16:27Danny Jones?

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• 16:36Speaker 02

  Okay, see, one of the angles that people don't look at in terms of this scandal is that they assume all the time that Jeffrey Epstein's high-level Jewish connections involve some kind of official work on behalf of Mossad. Folks, we have a Jewish mafia in this country, okay? Like, have you seen Godfather? The character that was called Hyman Roth in Godfather, remember that? The Jewish mobster who's very close to the Corleone family and did business with them? That guy who's portrayed as, you know, Hyman Roth in Godfather is actually Meyer Lansky. Meyer Lansky, he was from Eastern Europe originally, but...

• 17:21Speaker 02

  He was a New York mobster who was in the casino business and had a lot of developments in Las Vegas and then also in Miami.

• 17:30Danny Jones?

  Cuba, right?

• 17:31Speaker 02

  They, he was involved with, you know, the Corleones and elements of the CIA in trying to bring about regime change in Cuba because he had lost casino assets in Cuba.

• 17:43Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 17:44Speaker 02

  And wanted to like, you know, change the regime so that he could open up Cuba economically again, right? Anyway, Meyer Lansky is a New York Jewish mobster with an extensive crime syndicate, okay, with many tendrils. And he used to like to recruit smart Jews from Brooklyn. Jeffrey Epstein's a Coney Island kid. He's a smart Jew from Brooklyn, all right? And when he got involved in the late 1970s, Meyer Lansky was still alive and still recruiting. He died in 83, I believe. So Jeffrey Epstein, I'll go back to Dalton.

• 18:26Speaker 02

  Jeffrey Epstein got his teaching job at Dalton in the late 1970s. And he wasn't qualified for it.

• 18:36Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 18:37Speaker 02

  Okay. And now, you know, a lot of people might not know this, but Dalton was a very elite prep school in New York, arguably was the top one. We used to compete with Horace Mann about which, which school was the top prep school in New York City. And so our faculty consisted of college professor grade teachers. I mean, most of them had PhDs. So Epstein was very unqualified for the job that he had at Dalton, based on his CV to date. And he was hired by this OSS operative who, you know, transitioned into the CIA as part

• 19:21Speaker 02

  of the transformation of that agency, a man by the name Donald Barr. And this high level, you know, OSS turned CIA operative was very peculiar insofar as he was also the author of some rather lurid science fiction. He wrote this book called Space Relations.

• 19:43Speaker 02

  Which is about a group of aristocratic pirates who are running illegal operations in space between various interplanetary colonies.

• 19:57Danny Jones?

  Cosmic pirates.

• 19:58Speaker 02

  Cosmic pirates, and this is going to become relevant. And one very important figure, what was her name, Morgan, Lady Morgan, Sidney, I believe. The Morgan name there is important because it's a reference to the Morgana and Morgan le Fay in the Arthurian mythos and so forth. And this Lady Morgan character is like, so she's the only woman in a group of very powerful men that are part of this like piratical, you know, organization, interplanetary piratical organization. And this lone woman among them is a total sadist. She's like a, you know, sort of uber dominatrix type.

• 20:40Speaker 02

  And she is responsible for the trafficking of miners to be sex slaves for powerful men on these interplanetary colonies. And, and these ships are running this cargo of like, you know, abused young people who are being basically sold into sexual slavery, you know, between various star systems. And so here, this guy writes this book. And when I was a Dalton, this book was behind a glass display case in the library. So I became aware of it when I was like, yeah, that, that book.

• 21:23Speaker 02

  And as a matter of fact, that was the edition that was behind the, and there was a hardcover edition too, that had a blue cover.

• 21:29Danny Jones?

  It's got seven reviews. Let's see what the reviews say.

• 21:31Speaker 02

  Four hundred and eighteen dollars. I have a copy.

• 21:34Danny Jones?

  That's fucking nuts, dude.

• 21:39Speaker 02

  So this shit was behind a glass display case.

• 21:42Danny Jones?

  A slightly Gothic interplanetary tale.

• 21:46Speaker 02

  You imagine you have, okay, so the Dalton Library was accessible to middle schoolers and high schoolers, middle schoolers too. So you're in like 4th grade, 5th grade. I saw that when I was in 5th grade for the first time. You go into the library and they're behind the glass display case are these sci-fi books and I was into sci-fi, okay? I read the whole Foundation trilogy back in those days. Tell you something else interesting about that in a moment.

• 22:13Speaker 02

  So you're into sci-fi, you see these sci-fi books, you know, "Oh, they were written by the headmaster of the Dalton School, a guy who in the late 70s was the headmaster of Dalton School." So imagine you're like a 5th grader and you're reading this shit, right? At the Dalton School, okay. So I mentioned the Foundation trilogy. The woman who ran the library at the Dalton School was married to a professor of mine that I got very close to. And in very short order, like, okay, with, I was his student and then within a year after having been his student, as I was going into high school, I was his student in middle school.

• 22:58Speaker 02

  It became clear he was trying to recruit me into the CIA. I was 14 years old. And I was warned by another faculty member, matter of fact, my homeroom teacher, like pulled me aside and said like, because she saw me having conversations with him in the hall.

• 23:12Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 23:15Speaker 02

  And I had written, I was, I was always crazy. In the 8th grade, I wrote a 60-page report. We're supposed to write like a 12-page paper or something. I wrote this 60-page report about Iran's nuclear intentions and capabilities.

• 23:31Danny Jones?

  At what age?

• 23:35Speaker 02

  Thirteen, fourteen.

• 23:37Danny Jones?

  Oh my god.

• 23:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, my history teacher, this woman, the same one who warned me about this guy. She took the thing and she said, she goes, "I asked for a term paper, not a dissertation." She goes, "Which half of this do you want me to read?" Anyway, she read the whole thing and then later I met her husband and he, man, was he pissed off at me. He's like, "She spends all her time reading your papers. What is this? You're in middle school, kid." Like, anyway, so she had seen me in the hallway with this other teacher of mine, and he had handed me at one point a classified assessment of Iran's nuclear capabilities as part of an attempt to recruit me. And he said to me, "You don't

• 24:23Speaker 02

  cite this in your paper, but you can read it and it will give you leads and you'll get ideas of what to look for in other places." Okay?

• 24:32Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 24:32Speaker 02

  And so she saw me with this guy and like him giving me this stuff that I used in the paper that I submitted to her, and she confronted me and was like, "Listen, we all know here, he works for the CIA." And I subsequently found out that in fact, the CIA, the name of it is escaping me right now, but I think I put it in the article. Yes, I put it in the article about Maxwell. They had a program to do this where they sent recruiters even to high schools. And what they would do is they would offer to pay for your college if you agreed to work for the agency when you were already in high school. They were trying to recruit a certain type.

• 25:16Danny Jones?

  Of young, very young person.

• 25:18Speaker 02

  High IQ people. Yeah. And who think a certain way. And so this guy tried to recruit me and his wife is running the library. So his wife is making lists of, so how did they recruit? His wife would make lists of all the books being taken out by various students and identify, based on their interests, the young people who could be promising candidates. So, so convenient, the wife was the librarian, the library where space relations was on display, and this teacher was a recruiter. And both of them were hired by Donald Barr, the same guy who hired Jeffrey Epstein in the late 1970s.

• 26:03Danny Jones?

  I think there's a picture of them, it was like a class photo of Bill Barr and Epstein. And like

• 26:11Speaker 02

  It's in the yearbook.

• 26:12Danny Jones?

  In the yearbook.

• 26:13Speaker 02

  I put it in my article.

• 26:13Danny Jones?

  And they're together.

• 26:14Speaker 02

  It's in the same, they're from the same yearbook.

• 26:16Danny Jones?

  Yeah. It's insane. They look, they look like almost identical to the way they look now, just a little bit older. So it's a dead ringer that it's them.

• 26:27Speaker 02

  Yep. So Jeffrey Epstein's work with the CIA began then, because Donald Barr was CIA and Donald Barr hired the CIA guy who tried to recruit me into the CIA when I was 14 years old. So by the way, obviously I said no. Okay. For the same reason that I turned down the Mossad years ago. You know, I had lunch with these two individuals who I mentioned. They were not the ones who made that offer. Later on, I, very long story short, because this is sort of off our subject matter, but just because, you know, people are gonna, people talk all kinds of crap and they're gonna be like, oh, Giorgio Chiellini doesn't want to talk about Epstein because, you know, maybe he also works for the Mossad, whatever.

• 27:11Danny Jones?

  We're talking about Epstein, trust me.

• 27:12Speaker 02

  Yeah. So later, in the course of that same lobbying effort, I, I wrote to Benjamin Netanyahu directly. And matter of fact, what happened was, I wrote to Defense Minister Lieberman and Bibi kicked him out of the cabinet and took over his position, which is very unusual, because he was serving as Prime Minister, and then he took over the Defense Minister's position and served them both at the same time. And when he took over Lieberman's position, they found my letter on Lieberman's desk. And I was told from Jerusalem, rewrite this letter and address it to Prime Minister Netanyahu directly. So I did that.

• 27:55Speaker 02

  And then somebody else from the Mossad offered to hire me and they basically literally like hire me like salaried etcetera, at which point I cut off all communication with the Israelis. I was deeply offended because we were doing very high level work, like I was trying to set up a meeting where important figures in the Iranian opposition would come to Israel and we would meet with the prime minister and other figures and so forth, right? Which eventually did happen, by the way, that happened within the last year and a half, where Crown Prince Reza Pahlavi went to Israel and even met with Netanyahu and other officials. So this eventually took place and basically I was trying to set this up back then and I was like, you want to buy me?

• 28:38Speaker 02

  I'm like a diplomatic liaison and you want to turn me into an asset or agent of yours? So I had no communication with the Israelis ever again after that.

• 28:46Danny Jones?

  So you think, do you think the reason that they might have tried to recruit you is because that you were advocating for regime change in Iran and they thought that you, your values would have lined up because obviously they knew you weren't Jewish, right?

• 28:58Speaker 02

  No, they wanted to control me. Look, I mean, obviously I was advocating for something that's to the benefit of Israel. But it's one thing for me to be a free agent doing that and to have high level meetings with them where then I have all kinds of information that potentially they don't want in the public sphere. So it's better for them if I'm doing that work as someone who's controlled by them because he's being paid by them, right? So I mean, it makes perfect sense, but it really pissed me off.

• 29:24Danny Jones?

  Right, but it's a risk to try to recruit you, right? Like it's obviously a risk. So I'm wondering, I'm wondering, you know, maybe they were just, you know, averse to those kinds of risks at that time.

• 29:35Speaker 02

  It's a risk, but look if I've become a problem, they can just off me.

• 29:37Danny Jones?

  Sure, that's true. Yeah, I've had multiple people tell me.

• 29:41Speaker 02

  I mean, they might still do that. I don't think they're going to be very happy with my saying this here right now, but.

• 29:45Danny Jones?

  Yeah, well, I mean, I don't think they're happy with a lot of the stuff that's on podcasts talking about Israel lately.

• 29:49Speaker 02

  There you go.

• 29:50Danny Jones?

  So I think that it's beyond their scope.

• 29:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, so people, so people like who look at what I post and, and statements I've made in various interviews about Israel, you know, you're completely deluded if you think I'm some kind of a paid agent or asset of Israel. As a matter of fact, I have no communication with them whatsoever and haven't had since they offered to hire me, I don't know, what was it, 2020, 2020, late 2019, early 2020, something like that. I support Israel for.

• 30:19Speaker 02

  Certain very strategic reasons that you know I could lay out that have to do with my own aims and goals and my strategic vision of the world. It has absolutely nothing to do with any connection to their government, none whatsoever.

• 30:32Danny Jones?

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• 31:16Danny Jones?

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• 32:01Danny Jones?

  And what is that?

• 32:02Speaker 02

  What, those strategic aims? Yeah. Okay, I mean, I can tell you.

• 32:05Danny Jones?

  High level.

• 32:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, high level. Demographic projections show that by the year 2075, we will have a Muslim majority on this planet.

• 32:19Speaker 02

  I spent a great deal of time studying Islam in depth and detail. My master's thesis was on Islam and universal human rights. And I went into the Quran, you know, like into the weeds of it, into the whole Islamic legal tradition. In other words, the construction of Sharia law from out of the Quran, okay? And if people want to see, you know, my analysis of that, they should read my book, World State of Emergency, which came out in 2017. And in that book, World State of Emergency, I argue very clearly for why Islam is not reformable, number one, Islam is not reformable. You know, I'm no fan of Christianity. You've heard me criticize it on your show.

• 33:02Speaker 02

  But there are fundamental structural and historical differences between Christianity and Islam. Christianity is a religion that came into being 300 years after the time of Jesus. There were a plethora of divergent and conflicting Christian sects at the time, and many rival interpretations of the scriptures. And these four gospels that wound up being canonized in Nicene also conflict with one another, not to mention the tens of gospels that were rejected at Nicene and could retrospectively be considered equally Christian, okay? So Christianity is a historical process that took several centuries to evolve. And then after Nicene, the church, over time, over another subsequent millennium, broke up into many different pieces.

• 33:47Speaker 02

  The Orthodox broke from the Catholics, then you had the Protestant Reformation, you got hundreds of different Protestant sects. So Christianity is this very polymorphic phenomenon. And even if you want to reject the whole of it, which I do, from a sociological and political standpoint, it's fundamentally different from Islam. The Quran was authored by Muhammad. It was written down in the lifetime of Muhammad by his scribes on the shoulder blade bones of camels, and then subsequently transcribed onto paper. We have not found any divergent copies of the Quran. In other words, there are no alternate versions of the Quran that have survived. So we have to assume that it's been consistently preserved since the time of Muhammad.

• 34:32Speaker 02

  And... What people call Sharia law, in other words Islamic jurisprudence, is entirely grounded in the Quran. Yes, complex legal systems were built up from out of it later, but injunctions about cutting off a thief's arm if he steals, or that a woman only inherits half the property of a man, or that you should beat your wife if she gets out of line, or how you should treat your slaves, meaning slavery is completely justified by Allah. All of this stuff is in the Quran itself. And most importantly, as I lay out in that part of World State of Emergency, by the way, I have an article on my Substack

• 35:15Speaker 02

  that reiterates some of these core points about Islam that I came out with recently. So people could look at that, too. It's called Muhammad's Despicable Religion. So the most important point is that in the Quran...

• 35:28Danny Jones?

  What year was the Quran written again?

• 35:30Speaker 02

  In the 630s, 620s. Yeah. It was written over a period of 20 some odd years.

• 35:39Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 35:42Speaker 02

  22 years. And so the most important thing is in the Quran, multiple times, Allah says, remember, the Quran is not written by Muhammad. He's a channeler. Allah is speaking through him. And Allah refers to Muhammad in the third person. Whenever Muhammad is referred to, he's referred to out of Muhammad's own mouth in the third person. And there's some very weird passages in there that have convinced me that he didn't make it up. It's a genuine work of channeling. Okay? So whatever channelers do, look, channelers are a dime a dozen. We've got plenty of them. You go to any New Age section of a bookstore, you can find books by five different channelers who claim that God is talking through them. All right, Muhammad was one of these people.

• 36:24Danny Jones?

  And you think he wasn't grifting? You think he was really...

• 36:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, and in fact, to be fair to Muhammad, and I hate to be fair to Muhammad, but to be fair to Muhammad, his initial reaction was that either I'm losing my marbles or I'm being possessed by demons. He ran out of that cave where he encountered... So he's in this cave by himself. And somebody comes up and grabs him from behind. And he tries to get free and the the person or entity behind him says, "Recite, recite." And he's like, "I'm illiterate, I'm illiterate, recite what?" And all of a sudden, this stream of narrative like comes through his mind and he starts reciting it.

• 37:07Speaker 02

  And he runs out of that cave like, you know, like with the bejesus scared out of him. And by the way, on the way out of that scampering down the hillside out of that cave, he sees a UFO. And he hears the same voice that told him to recite, he hears it coming from out of the UFO. And he turns his head, he's like, you know, like, "What, what, am I, am I really seeing this?" And the thing follows him.

• 37:31Danny Jones?

  This is in the Quran?

• 37:33Speaker 02

  And then later in the hadith, the hadith are the, it's in the Quran, but later in the hadith, you have a much richer version of this. The hadith are the traditions of what Muhammad said and did, passed down through the people who knew him. And so, anyway, he gets home to his wife and he says, "Listen, I'm, I'm either losing my fucking marbles or demons are trying to possess me." And his wife had a few Christian friends. And these stupid Christian women convinced Muhammad that God was really talking to him. Okay, so he started to take himself seriously. And then it became a power trip after that.

• 38:16Speaker 02

  Anyway, the important point I was trying to make is that in the Quran itself, Allah repeatedly claims, "This is a complete and perfect book. You are not at liberty to follow some parts of it and reject other parts of it. You cannot change any part of it. It's a word, once and for all, it will remain valid for eternity until the day of judgment." Okay, meaning that all the legal verses in the Quran.

• 38:46Speaker 02

  Are unchangeable and they have to be followed, you know, to the dot of an I and cross of a T. And that's the basis of Sharia law. Okay. So now to go back to the demographics, by 2075,

• 38:57Speaker 02

  the trends show we're going to have a Muslim majority on this planet.

• 39:01Danny Jones?

  And who projected this?

• 39:02Speaker 02

  You can look it up. There's various different, you know, demographics projections.

• 39:06Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 39:07Speaker 02

  Maybe the even more disturbing projection is that much sooner than 2075, maybe by 2050, some of the largest metropolitan areas in Europe are going to be Muslim majority. And we see what's already happening in Britain.

• 39:22Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah.

• 39:23Speaker 02

  Okay. And next is going to be either France or Germany. The, and look, it's the metropolitan, for better or for worse, it's the metropolitan areas of a country that define its constitution. And they are becoming, you know, majority Muslim.

• 39:40Danny Jones?

  Google AI says, yes, the global Muslim population is projected to become the majority by 2075. According to this, a study by the Pew Research Center. And this is due to the higher Muslim birth rate, which is projected to cause the number of Muslim babies born to outnumber Christian babies within the next two decades. By the end of the century, Muslims are expected to be about 34.9% the world's population, compared to 33.8% for Christians.

• 40:06Speaker 02

  Whoa. Now, what's worse.

• 40:07Danny Jones?

  That's nuts.

• 40:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, what's worse, as I just said, what's worse is that they're going to be a majority in Europe well before that. And by majority, I mean decisive political majority. So if you look at the history of Lebanon, modern Lebanon, Lebanon was a diverse country that included many Lebanese Christians, people with strong cultural ties to France, you know, very secular, Western mindset. And then the Shiite Muslim population started to grow. And at a certain point, when it became around 30 something percent. The Muslims basically tried to take over the whole country. And we had the Lebanese civil war and the creation of Hezbollah.

• 40:51Speaker 02

  And Lebanon turned into this horrific, violence-ridden, failed state that it is to this day. Okay? So, and this is a pattern you see all throughout history, is that when Muslims get to a certain sizable minority, not even a majority,

• 41:11Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 41:11Speaker 02

  They basically bully everybody else around them into submission.

• 41:15Danny Jones?

  Okay, but let me ask you a question.

• 41:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, remember, you're asking me about why do I support Israel? So we'll come back.

• 41:20Danny Jones?

  Yeah, we're getting deep down a rabbit hole. So.

• 41:24Speaker 02

  It's important to set it up.

• 41:25Danny Jones?

  It is important, I think so too. When you talk about Muslims, right? You're obviously broad brushing a large group of people. Like, when you refer to Christians, right? I know a ton of Christians who are great people. Loving, kind, compassionate people.

• 41:40Speaker 02

  Because you're allowed to be as a Christian.

• 41:41Danny Jones?

  And I also know that there is the children of God cult, where they literally like children.

• 41:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:48Danny Jones?

  So like, are we talking about jihadists? Or are we talking, you know?

• 41:53Speaker 02

  Jihad is the responsibility and duty of every single Muslim. The Quran says so. The Quran is absolute. It is a set-in-stone prescription for all time, as I just said. It repeats this claim over and over again. So it's completely different from the Bible. The Bible is massively internally contradictory and has been composed over hundreds of years by many different authors.

• 42:19Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 42:20Speaker 02

  And it's been fought over from the beginning fiercely. I mean, the Gnostic sects didn't even agree with each other, let alone the Gnostic sects and the Orthodox sects.

• 42:29Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 42:29Speaker 02

  And it's a shitshow, the formation of Christianity. Islam is monolithic. In its core belief structure, the only thing they fought about, which caused the Shiite versus Sunni schism, was a leadership question. There was a fight over who the legitimate successors to Muhammad were. Was it the Sunni khalif's? Or was it blood descendants of Muhammad through Ali? That's the only thing they fought. They did not fight over what Quran says and what an Islamic society should look like. So my point is this. Yeah, of course, there are many decent Muslims, Muslims, people born into Islam.

• 43:04Danny Jones?

  That don't believe all this shit in the Quran.

• 43:05Speaker 02

  Because they don't know it and they haven't read it. And what happens is... Once you have a sizable enough Muslim minority, not even majority, it's always the fundamentalist, meaning the basic core message of the Quran that monopolizes discourse. And then the Muslims who are devout, meaning they're truly adherent to the Quran, wind up intimidating all the other Muslims into compliance. And this, of course, happened in Iran. I mean, this is like, this is the story of, you know, post 1979 Iran, where the vast majority of people couldn't have cared really less about Islam.

• 43:49Speaker 02

  But there was an increasingly large minority of people who took the Quran seriously and took their duties as Muslims seriously. And these people eventually took the entire society hostage. And now we've had 46 years of a fundamentalist Islamic theocracy there. Okay, and you see this pattern all across the Islamic world. Now, to go back to, why is it that I support Israel?

• 44:12Danny Jones?

  Well, I want to clear it, like what you said does make a lot of sense. When you're looking at Islam and you explain it as being a monolith versus Christianity, as it being just fractured into many different sects. Like if there was gonna be some collision course of

• 44:30Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 44:30Danny Jones?

  right and left or Muslim, Islam and Christianity, you would see how Islam would win.

• 44:35Speaker 02

  Also, Danny, render unto Caesar what is Caesar's. Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and unto God what is God's.

• 44:42Danny Jones?

  What does that mean?

• 44:43Speaker 02

  Okay, so all throughout the Gospels, you see these very contradictory Gospels written by many different authors, unreliable witnesses, et cetera, versus the Quran coming out of Muhammad's mouth. In these Gospels, you see Jesus repeatedly say that it's not our business to take political power.

• 44:59Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 44:59Speaker 02

  So actually, the evangelicals who want to create a biblical republic in the United States are not very good Christians because Jesus repeatedly disavows the use of force to take political power.

• 45:11Danny Jones?

  Like Peter Thiel. And some of these other people in the White House, like Peter Thiel is trying to like paint Christianity onto everything in Silicon Valley and do these press conferences on the Antichrist and then...

• 45:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, and all of the evangelical mega churches that have had a hold on political power in this country since George W. Bush, right, at least.

• 45:31Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 45:32Speaker 02

  So they're not very good Christians because Jesus, I mean, look, he says many contradictory things, but one fairly consistent message, I can't believe I'm finding myself like advocating anything, you know, on behalf of Jesus of other people. But, look, he basically is a pacifist and he disavows the use of force and political coercion, you know, as a means of furthering righteousness. I mean, this is really pretty much at the core of the Christian message. And so, for example, like, you know, as much as the Catholic Church was in bed with various potentates throughout the European history, they were still distinct entities.

• 46:16Speaker 02

  You have various European royal families and kingdoms and, you know, now and then one or another one would be more closely aligned with the Vatican, you see, but it was never one monolithic institution. The caliphate, the Khalifa, from the beginning, was the complete unity of what we would call in the West church and state. There's, it's a non-distinction. It is a radical theocracy. Islam calls for radical theocracy. You cannot separate the church from the state at all.

• 46:45Danny Jones?

  Is it baked into their education system, too?

• 46:47Speaker 02

  Hundred percent. They memorize the Quran from childhood.

• 46:49Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 46:50Speaker 02

  Okay, so in matter of fact, the reason they do that, it's called becoming a Hafiz. The reason they do that is so that in case the written copies of the Quran are ever lost, or it's ever in doubt what it said, the Quran will be in the memories of thousands of people so they can recompose the book.

• 47:04Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 47:05Speaker 02

  Now, Israel, okay. So if the world is going to be majority Muslim by 2075, and if the metropolitan areas of Europe are going to be taken over by Islam by 2050, which means constitutionally, we're going to lose the secular West, you know, in another quarter century at the very latest, I actually don't think it's going to take that long.

• 47:29Speaker 02

  Who's gonna stop a global Islamic caliphate from coming into being?

• 47:34Danny Jones?

  Well, we have much better weapons than they do.

• 47:37Speaker 02

  You know what? We don't have the political will. We don't have the political will.

• 47:41Danny Jones?

  And we have a higher IQ.

• 47:42Speaker 02

  If we had the political will, Dearborn, Michigan wouldn't look like what it does.

• 47:47Danny Jones?

  It doesn't matter what the people want, though. It's what the people in power want.

• 47:50Speaker 02

  The people in power have been completely inept and impotent in terms of confronting the Islamic threat, including our current president, Donald Trump, who's in bed with the Saudis, okay? And with the Qataris. The Qataris, you know, Qatar is the worst financier of radical Islamic terrorism in the world. And Trump is in bed with the Qataris and now also the Saudis. He extended Article 5 NATO-grade protection to both Qatar and Saudi Arabia. This is not a political leadership that has the will to confront Islam. It's a political

• 48:31Speaker 02

  leadership that will continue to make money and do deals with anybody who has money.

• 48:36Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 48:36Speaker 02

  Okay? So I don't trust the United States government to protect us from the demographic and sociological inevitability of a global Islamic caliphate. You know what I trust? This little country, smaller than New Jersey, that's stuck in the middle of the fucking Islamic world, okay? Between Morocco and, you know, Afghanistan and Pakistan. And this little country's arsenal of 300 nuclear weapons. Because the last thing the Israelis are going to allow is for them to be subsumed and dominated and integrated into a global Islamic caliphate. They know the history of what happens to Jews in Islamic societies, going all the

• 49:19Speaker 02

  way back to Muhammad. You know, Muhammad's first preaching target, his first group of people he wanted to evangelize to and have convert to Islam, have accept Islam, accept submission. Were the Jews in Medina. When Mohammed became governor of the city of Medina, which used to be called Yathrib, they changed it to Medina al-Nabi, meaning the city of the prophet of Mohammed. It became the Caesar, the local Caesar. He was after the Jews there. And he was like, listen, I'm just preaching the same thing Moses preached. You know, this is the updated versions, version 3.0, right? So I accept Jesus, he was a prophet too. And you know, and I got, I got this new version of the kosher laws and all this. And they wouldn't accept it.

• 50:03Speaker 02

  So he massacred them. And from the time of Mohammed onward, Jews have been treated as third-class citizens in Islamic societies. So there is no way that the state of Israel, with its significant nuclear arsenal, is going to allow the rise and consolidation of power of a global Islamic caliphate. And so, long story short, that's a major reason why I support Israel. And then there are other less significant ones.

• 50:33Danny Jones?

  Israel is, first of all, I just had this, or I was just listening to my friend John Karyak, who went on my friend Julian's Dory's podcast. And he was, John is a former CIA officer who blew the whistle on the torture program and went to jail, went to prison for two years for it. And he has a source really close to Trump, who told him, before Trump did the bunker buster bombs in Iran, Netanyahu went to Trump and said, we're gonna nuke Iran if you guys don't intervene with, with American military power. And that's when Trump decided to bomb Iran, according to John's source.

• 51:15Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 51:15Danny Jones?

  And so, so Israel, Netanyahu, went to Donald Trump and said, we are going to nuke Iran if you don't intervene with military power. And this is a country that does not, is not in the IAEA treaty, officially is not allowed to have a nuclear program unless you, you know, believe the whistleblowers that have come out over the years.

• 51:39Speaker 02

  Two things. First, I doubt that that's true. And I doubt it's true because, as you can imagine, with my history of involvement, I followed the 12-day war very closely. And I was in constant communication with people. And from my understanding of what happened...

• 51:58Speaker 02

  The Israelis did not want any significant American military support beyond aerial refueling and beyond air defense support. They wanted to carry out this operation to its conclusion themselves. And the objective of the operation was regime change in Iran. The objective was not taking out Iran's nuclear facilities. Because, by the way, you cannot take out Iran's nuclear facilities successfully with that kind of an operation. The objective was regime change. And they had a, at least one month-long plan. Remember, the war lasted 12 days. The Israelis had at least one month-long plan. And they had anticipated, I forget what the exact number was, but it was some horrendously

• 52:42Speaker 02

  large number of casualties that they were going to sustain from Iranian missile attacks. It was thousands and thousands. I don't remember the exact number. But, you know, they went into it thinking, okay, well, you know, with the missile capability they have, we're going to lose like 4,000 or 5,000 people. They didn't lose anywhere near that number. Okay? So they overestimated Iran's missile capabilities. Anyway, point being, they were willing to ride it out to the conclusion, which was regime change. And one of the reasons why I don't buy this story, and I'm going to come back and tell you my response, assuming this is true, but let's go with why I don't buy it first, is that I was following the whole thing very closely, and what was supposed to happen

• 53:26Speaker 02

  at Fordo, the site that Trump hit with the B2, the main one that Trump hit with the deep bunker busting B2. What was supposed to happen at Fordo was that the Israelis, like I said, I followed this very closely. The Israelis came in and they bombed everything around the Fordo site. I watched that happen. They came in, they bombed everything around the Fordo site. So they isolated it from, they cut off all the roads, they isolated it from all the towns around it. And if anyone was left in Fordo, which probably they had already evacuated, if anyone was left, they were trapped. Okay? And then the Israelis were going to send commandos.

• 54:07Speaker 02

  They had found the access points of the tunnels leading down into that subterranean facility. And they're going to send a commando team in there.

• 54:16Speaker 02

  To onsite make sure that everything is blown up from the inside using dynamite. Where there's not going to be any question whether they succeeded or not and you know the commando team was expandable. And they had blown up everything around Fordo in part because they wanted to bring helicopters down, both to deploy the commando team and then also to retrieve the commando team and create an area where extraction was possible.

• 54:45Speaker 02

  Now if they were going to drop a nuclear bomb on Fordo, they were, I mean like it doesn't make any sense to develop a commando operation if you're planning to nuke the site, your own people are going to be irradiated, they're not going to be able to go in there. Plus like if you've already taken it out with a nuke, what's the point of sending a an explosives team in there to do the job? And I'm, I'm pretty confident, having followed it along, that this was the plan they had.

• 55:08Speaker 02

  And it was only one small step in a very long operation, which like I said, was supposed to take a month and end with the decapitation of the regime and its replacement with a secular western style alternative. After Trump bombed Fordo, immediately he came out and imposed a ceasefire on Israel. In other words, Donald Trump aborted Operation Rising Lion. And Donald Trump, and it's because this is how Trump is, okay? Khamenei, the supreme leader of Iran, comes out and acts like Iran won the 12 day war. We won, we won because we're still here, look at how resilient we are. And Trump gets pissed off by this.

• 55:51Speaker 02

  So Trump, being the kind of person he is, goes on a tweet storm, which any one of his advisors should have stopped him from saying this, but he goes on a tweet storm which exposes for us exactly what happened. He puts out there, right there on X, "I saved your life, you should be grateful. The Israelis knew where you were and they wanted to kill you, they were going to kill you and I saved your life." To the supreme leader of Iran.

• 56:17Speaker 02

  So you can imagine, by the way, the reaction in the Iranian opposition when, you know, it was realized that Donald Trump aborted a regime change operation and personally saved the life of the supreme leader of Iran's brutal Islamic theocracy. Yeah. That's what happened there. None of that is consistent with this idea that Trump was, you know, and this we can see in his actual X messages. It's not consistent with the idea that he was threatened by Netanyahu, that Bibi was going to drop a nuke on Ford. Now, let's suppose for a moment that that story is true, right? I've been involved with the Iranian opposition for 25 years, something like that.

• 57:00Speaker 02

  And I've seen it morph in terms of the attitudes that people have, especially inside the country, what the psychological state is inside the country. There were four failed uprisings against the Islamic Republic. And the most serious of them were 2009, 2017 into 2018, and then 2023, the Woman, Life, Freedom uprising of 2023. And there was incredibly brutal suppression in each of these cases. I mean, just recently, they, you know, they're having a water crisis in Iran. Okay, they're having a massive water crisis in Iran. And so this dam, the Karaj Dam, ran dry, and they found tens of bodies of killed political

• 57:44Speaker 02

  dissidents at the bottom of the Karaj Dam. Once it ran dry, they found their remains. Right. People had always said for years, like, where did they take these people? They were rounding them up and they weren't even taking them to prisons. Yeah, I don't think, I don't think anyone would argue with you that the Iranian regime is good. So Trump saved them. Trump saved the Iranian regime. Israel wanted to change the regime, Trump saved the regime, and he gave the reason why. He said, "It would be too much chaos in the region, it would disrupt business in the region too much to have the regime in Iran change." But Trump said this? Yes, he said it publicly. He tweeted it. Wow. Nobody stops this guy from tweeting all this anyway. So, but let's assume that this story is true, just for argument's sake.

• 58:22Speaker 02

  I've seen the attitudes in Iran devolve, rather than, let's say, evolve, over the years, as the regime has become increasingly repressive and as uprising after uprising has failed, okay, been crushed. And let me tell you Danny, during the 12 day war, not only were Iranians coming out and saying, "Israel hit them, we're behind you," they would graffiti this on the walls in Tehran. Okay, so they were calling for the Israeli strikes, the Iranian people, and cheering them on.

• 58:51Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 58:51Speaker 02

  There were parties that were filmed, the people were celebrating, okay? But there were even people who tweeted things like, "You know, even if you have to drop a nuclear bomb on our heads, "it would be better than continuing to live under this regime. "If we have to become Japan, where you know, you take out Hiroshima and Nagasaki, "and then we don't live under these people anymore, by all means." So that's how desperate these people are in Iran. If a nuke had been used at Fardol, it would have been used in a, uh, what do you call it? They said bioban in Persian, a wasteland, a deserted area, "to take out a deep underground facility." It's not to kill civilians.

• 59:34Danny Jones?

  An underground nuke?

• 59:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly, a bunker busting nuke, exactly. That's what, if, if this story is true, that's what Bibi was threatening to use. Not to use a nuclear weapon against Iranian people. It would be the stupidest thing in the world for the Israelis to do, "to use a nuclear weapon, or any kind of, any kind of weapon against Iranian civilians." One of the things that was very clear in the 12 day war is that the Israelis went out of their way "to issue evacuation orders to Iranians." They had Persian language spokespeople who were telling Iranians, "neighborhood to neighborhood move."

• 1:00:08Danny Jones?

  Iran did the same exact thing when they did all their responses to Israel. They would give them warnings, they would warn them what were they, what exactly what they were gonna do, "like even like days notice before they sent the drones in and stuff like that." Like, they, they, they didn't, they did, to Israel, yes.

• 1:00:21Speaker 02

  I, I have no verifiable information that that's the case.

• 1:00:24Danny Jones?

  There, I mean, there was, there was reports about this, about the, the strike in, "I think there was one in Syria, and then there was another one where they were retaliating to Israel's strikes."

• 1:00:33Speaker 02

  Not in this 12 day war. In the past, they've done that.

• 1:00:36Danny Jones?

  And the ones, I don't know, months before, or this past one, this year, for sure.

• 1:00:41Speaker 02

  In the exchange that took place between Israel and Iran, that small exchange that took place, "like a year before the 12 day war, nine months before it, that did happen." Because the Iranians were very afraid of, you know, what the response would be. And, uh, what I think you're probably confusing it with is that when the Iranians attacked... Supposedly, our base in Qatar. They gave clear warning. They even asked Trump, like, "What time would you like us to send the missiles?"

• 1:01:06Danny Jones?

  Right, exactly, yes.

• 1:01:08Speaker 02

  So that did hap- But, look, the point is this, that Iranian people are extremely desperate. Even if they had to go through Hiroshima and Nagasaki, they'd rather be rid of this regime. But Israel has no intent to put them through Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

• 1:01:21Danny Jones?

  Okay, so here's my question.

• 1:01:22Speaker 02

  Because, hold on, hold on.

• 1:01:23Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:01:23Speaker 02

  Because they know the Iranians are the most pro-Israel population on the planet.

• 1:01:28Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:01:28Speaker 02

  Israel has lost even the American population at this point.

• 1:01:31Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:01:31Speaker 02

  Let alone any other country in the world. They're hated, completely isolated. Iran is the only potential future ally that Israel can have as a major nation. So the last thing they're gonna do is alienate the Iranian population by dropping any kind of heavy munition on a civilian area.

• 1:01:45Danny Jones?

  Hmm, I get what you're saying. Winter is the time I finally get to break out my Rag & Bone pants. I've worn their clothes for a while, but their infused denim is in a whole nother stratosphere. I'm almost 40. My style's changed, my body's changed, and I'm not trying to squeeze into some stiff cardboard-feeling jeans anymore. When I put on the infused jeans for the first time, it honestly ruined all the other jeans for me. The fit was perfect, structured without feeling tight, and the comfort was ridiculous. They felt broken in from day one. They move with you, and they keep their shape and develop character with the longer you wear. No matter what your style is, slim, straight, relaxed, or athletic, there's a cut that fits you perfectly. But the real magic is with the wash.

• 1:02:26Danny Jones?

  Each pair goes through this eight-step over-dye process, so the color has depth and texture you only usually see in super-premium denim. Over time, it gets better like a fine wine. This is Rag & Bone doing what it does best. Two decades of denim obsession packed into a pair you'll reach for every single day. It's time to upgrade your denim with Rag & Bone. And for a limited time, our listeners get 20% off their entire order with the code DANNY at rag-bone.com. That's 20% off at rag-bone.com using the promo code DANNY, spelled D-A-N-N-Y. When they ask where you heard about them, please support the show and let them know we sent you. So my question is, why, why do we care? Why do we care about Iran and the United States?

• 1:03:10Danny Jones?

  Why, why do we have to go over there and spend billions of taxpayer dollars to drop bombs on Iran? What the fuck are they doing to, to... What is Iran doing that's diminishing the quality of my or your life?

• 1:03:24Speaker 02

  In the great power game geopolitically between the United States, China, and Russia, not to mention the threat of a global Islamic caliphate that we just spent 20 minutes talking about, Iran is the most key piece on the chessboard. If you look at Iran throughout the course of history, it has been the nexus between the eastern and the western world, between the north and the south of the world, okay? It sits between India, China, Russia, Europe, and the Islamic world, and it sits in the middle of massive oil and gas resources,

• 1:04:05Speaker 02

  okay? And it's the only country in history that has had five successive world empires, okay? First Persian Empire, the Akkermanids, Parthian Empire, Sassanid Empire, Safavid Empire. The last empire of Iran was, it ended roughly about the time the United States was born. So the American Revolution happened right about at the end of the last empire of Iran, which stretched from northern India, from where the Taj Mahal is, all the way into like halfway into Turkey, okay? So this is a country that's demonstrated that it's more effective at building world empires than the Romans, and it's rebuilt those empires

• 1:04:50Speaker 02

  five times in history. It survived a Greek invasion, an Arab invasion, a Turkic invasion, Mongols, Genghis Khan's people. And it was the world's leader in science and technology between 900 and 1100. Most of the scientific research and technological innovation in the world was taking place in Iran, which is misnamed the Islamic Golden Age. It was happening despite Islam and in opposition to Islam, and the leading lights of it were all like secular rationalists who hated Islam. So like Omar Khayyam, so, or Razi. So this

• 1:05:29Speaker 02

  country's a battery. It's a key. It's a battery. You control this country, and you may have a chance at rivaling China and Russia. If China and Russia control this country, we're fucked. Okay, it's geostrategically vital. And remember, the Iranians used to be allies of the United States. You know, under the Pahlavi regime, Iran was a very close strategic ally of the United States. So it would be a resumption of a relationship that existed on a much higher, or you could say, on a much deeper and more organic level. Because now it's coming not from the leadership in Iran, but from the people who are overwhelmingly pro-American.

• 1:06:06Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:06:07Speaker 02

  So, point being, it's a travesty that we went into Iraq. It's a travesty that because of, you know, Halliburton and, you know, to enrich Dick Cheney, we went into Iraq. Or that we spent, what was it, how, 20 years in Afghanistan, something like that? Even though, you know, good intelligence shows that actually Osama bin Laden died early on. And there was no reason for us to be in Afghanistan for that long. And then we left it in such a humiliating manner. These are travesties. We shouldn't have been in these places to begin with. And now the American population, as a result, doesn't want an entanglement, an engagement

• 1:06:52Speaker 02

  in an area that actually is geostrategically vital for the long-term rivalry between the United States and other world powers.

• 1:07:01Danny Jones?

  When it comes to all of the, all of those wars that we've been dragged into, into the Middle East since the Iraq War. And, you know, not to mention Netanyahu trying to convince every single one of our presidents since, what, Bush, that Iran has a nuke. They're, what, he, the quote was, "They are months away from having a nuclear weapon." And that's been the same thing for how many years now? How many decades now?

• 1:07:28Speaker 02

  You know what's interesting about that? Which, this can be a nice segue back to the Dalton School and then the Epstein conversation, which we got derailed.

• 1:07:34Danny Jones?

  Yes, exactly.

• 1:07:36Speaker 02

  An interesting thing about that.

• 1:07:39Speaker 02

  Is, as you may recall, you know, I was telling you about this paper I wrote on Iran's nuclear ambitions back when I was 14. And the intelligence that this guy, this teacher of mine, shared with me, the CIA recruiter. So I followed Bibi's remarks on Iran through all these decades. And, you know, I kind of don't want to say this, but fuck it, I'll say it anyway. The idea that Iran doesn't have nuclear weapons already doesn't make any sense. If you've really followed the Iranian nuclear program for decades as I have, it's not believable.

• 1:08:21Speaker 02

  In other words, Bibi was right when he started saying back in the day, "Oh, Iran is two years away from having a nuke, or Iran is six months away from having a nuke." I think Iran has a clandestine nuclear arsenal. Now, I don't really want to be saying that because I want regime change to take place in Iran. And, you know, one major dissuasion to anyone trying to force regime change in Iran is if, you know, there's a nuclear arsenal already existent there. But I think it's likely.

• 1:08:48Danny Jones?

  And what do you make of the whole October 7 thing? You know, there's that video of Charlie Kirk when he was on PBD's podcast, who, you know, Charlie Kirk's been like super supportive of Israel through his whole entire career from when he was young, visited there, you know, dozens of times. And he was like, I think he quoted, he said, "From Jerusalem to the Gaza border is like a 30-minute helicopter ride." He's like, "Why was there no response for six hours?" And he was like, he's like, "I have to be careful how I say this." But was there a legitimate stand-down order on October 7?

• 1:09:25Speaker 02

  I'll tell you what I think happened. And if you want to see that I have no official ties to the Israelis, here you go. Anyone who did, anyone who did wouldn't say the following.

• 1:09:40Speaker 02

  One of the things that became very clear to me in the course of my... First of all, I grew up with these people, okay? Dalton was 70% Jewish, 60, at least 60%, 70% Jewish, in terms of the demographic of the students and parents. I mean, these are Jeffrey Epstein's business connections. He developed a lot of his business connections through his involvement with Dalton parents, who then got him the jobs at Bear Stearns. That's how he got those jobs. He got them networking with Dalton parents. Anyway, so I grew up with these people, and I know this from having grown up in that milieu, but then, you know, also in the years I was lobbying for regime change in Iran and had some engagement with the Israelis, it became much more clear to

• 1:10:21Speaker 02

  me that there's a whole subset of people in the political and military intelligence establishment of Israel who are basically Russian dual citizens and double agents who work both for the Kremlin and for Israel. And for a long time, that wasn't a problem, because Benjamin Netanyahu, in particular, walked a very fine line in terms of maintaining his alliance with the United States and also maintaining what was a somewhat personal friendship with Vladimir Putin. Putin and Bibi were close. When the Ukraine war started, the United States began pressuring Israel

• 1:11:05Speaker 02

  to send munitions to Ukraine. Because we didn't want to have to send Ukraine more weapons, we were asking the Israelis to send munitions to Ukraine. And Netanyahu kept refusing to do this, because he had a relationship with Putin. Finally, Netanyahu, I think it was something like, I don't want to, you know, make up a number, but it was like roughly six months before October 7th, within like six months of October 7th, Netanyahu agreed to ship a ton of munitions to Ukraine. I mean, Israel sent so many munitions to Ukraine, that when their own war started in Gaza, they were low on artillery.

• 1:11:50Speaker 02

  So you can imagine what Putin's response to this would be. I mean, first of all, you know, Israel and Russia maintained a very close strategic relationship, but also he had a personal rapport with Netanyahu. And here's Netanyahu arming the Ukrainians to kill Russians en masse. You follow?

• 1:12:09Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:12:09Speaker 02

  Okay, well, I think what happened on October 7th was that a group of military intelligence operatives in Israel, who also answered to the Kremlin and who are double agents, stood down. And that the Russians probably, through Iran, offered certain tactical support to that operation. And Netanyahu and the Israeli establishment can never say that. Because if they ever, first of all, if you admit, I mean, it would be like the United States telling you the truth about 9/11.

• 1:12:48Speaker 02

  If you admit that your military and intelligence infrastructure, your, you know, network is so deeply compromised that an operation like that could be pulled off, well, number one, I mean, the taxpayers are gonna hang you.

• 1:13:03Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 1:13:03Speaker 02

  Okay? Number two, actually, this is really, that's number two. Number one is you can't admit it because it's nuclear war.

• 1:13:11Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:12Speaker 02

  Are you kidding me? Like, if Israel came out and said, "Oh yeah, actually, Russia played a role in October 7th," well, it's a nuclear war at that point between Israel and Russia. And you know what that's gonna become is a nuclear war between the United States and Russia very quickly because of all the evangelicals in this country who, you know, believe that the security of Israel is the security of the United States. And so, no one can tell that truth, but I think that's what happened that day.

• 1:13:39Danny Jones?

  That's wild. You don't think it was a, had anything to do with like a pretext to fucking carpet bomb Gaza and murder all those people?

• 1:13:47Speaker 02

  No, because...

• 1:13:49Speaker 02

  You know, this is diseased brain thinking.

• 1:13:53Speaker 02

  Qui bono? Who benefits? Who benefits? What's the end result? The end result of this is Israel is infamous in the world, has no allies left, and everybody who had any doubt now hates Israel and the Jews. You think they're stupid?

• 1:14:08Danny Jones?

  Well, Netanyahu doesn't seem to be as on the ball as he used to be.

• 1:14:14Speaker 02

  Nah.

• 1:14:14Danny Jones?

  He seems to be a little ignorant. I mean, there's videos of him saying shit that's just like, what are you thinking?

• 1:14:20Speaker 02

  That's like blaming the geostrategic failures of the United States on the vegetable who we had as president for four years.

• 1:14:30Danny Jones?

  Hmm, okay.

• 1:14:31Speaker 02

  You know, right? The auto pen, right? Israel has an incredibly sophisticated, multi-layered, you know, redundancy, you know, set political system. It's not up to Benjamin Netanyahu and whether he's becoming senile or whatever.

• 1:14:45Danny Jones?

  Did you see that video of him talking to those reporters? He's like, what do we have to control next? Class? Sitting up there like a fucking mobster. Class? What's the answer?

• 1:14:54Speaker 02

  Well, I know.

• 1:14:55Danny Jones?

  TikTok? We have to control TikTok.

• 1:14:58Speaker 02

  No, I wouldn't deny that he's a mobster. But, you know, Donald Trump is a mobster by the same, by the same token.

• 1:15:03Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:15:04Speaker 02

  Okay? Uh, which brings us back to Epstein via Meyer Lansky, via Meyer Lansky. So, one thing that these people who rant against Israel don't understand is that the Jewish influence in the United States and the criminal activities that are, um,

• 1:15:26Speaker 02

  that are connected to, you know, what Epstein was doing are not an extension of the state power of Israel. They're in many cases, results of operations being fielded by the Jewish mafia, uh, in the United States of, of American Jews like Meyer Lansky, who was connected to the Italian mob on the one hand, who was working with the CIA. Okay? So. This does not translate into, oh, Mossad was running whatever operation.

• 1:15:53Danny Jones?

  Sure, but like, what do you make of all, I mean, you have multiple intelligence people in the intelligence community here in the United States who will attest to the fact that Mossad has more undeclared agents in the United States than any other foreign intelligence agency, number one. Number two, you have, you have politicians being paid for by Israel, and they're instituting laws in states, like you had fucking DeSantis.

• 1:16:15Speaker 02

  By the way, I don't think that could possibly be true.

• 1:16:17Danny Jones?

  DeSantis came here and put in a blasphemy law.

• 1:16:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, the thing about the most unregistered whatever agents, that can't possibly be true. The answer has to be China. It has to be China. I mean, if you look at the size of the, and scale of the Chinatowns in every major American city, and how much American farmland has been bought up by the Chinese, and how much of it is next to our sensitive military facilities, and what kind of brokering would have, would have had to take place for that to happen, clearly, if we're, you know, the, the country that's most penetrated us on an intelligence level is China.

• 1:16:45Danny Jones?

  I wouldn't argue with you there. Um, I wouldn't argue with you there. But, um, China's also not our friend. It's not our ally, right?

• 1:16:52Speaker 02

  You want to know an interesting story that has to do with China and Israel? Get this, because this also sheds a spotlight on, on how the world works.

• 1:17:02Speaker 02

  A high-level CIA officer told me that

• 1:17:10Speaker 02

  he was responsible for

• 1:17:15Speaker 02

  going to a warehouse in China. This individual spoke Chinese and could deal very fluidly with the Chinese, I'll leave it at that. And he was responsible in the 1990s for going to a warehouse in China to confirm delivery of state-of-the-art American military hardware that was being sent from Israel to China.

• 1:17:40Speaker 02

  And the situation was that we were sending state of the art military hardware to Israel and telling the Israelis, now, listen, you can keep like 70% of this shipment and we want the other 30% to go to China, you understand? And the Israelis were like, what the fuck are you people doing? They're your rival. Why are you... Listen, either you ship it to China or we're not going to ship it to you. And they had this pipeline basically set up where we would send this stuff to the Chinese, to the Israelis, and they would take a certain percentage of all that and they would repackage it and ship it to China. And this CIA officer was stationed in the warehouse in China to confirm delivery of the fighter jets and the missile systems and so on and so forth. Okay?

• 1:18:24Speaker 02

  So, look, the world works in a much more complicated way than people imagine. Like, what is the objective there? Who ordered that?

• 1:18:33Danny Jones?

  Maybe it's more complicated. Yeah, so what was that about? Do you know?

• 1:18:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's a good question. I mean, I don't have a definitive interpretation, but one thing I can tell you is this. Imagine if that were to ever get out, but not the whole truth of it. Imagine if someday we see a story in, you know, the newspaper and a story on Fox News that Israel took American military hardware and armed China with it. See how that could be used to further compromise Israel's position?

• 1:19:05Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 1:19:06Speaker 02

  I wonder how many things like that have taken place where, you know, the Israelis have been put in a position where they have to do things that later can be used as collateral to compromise them.

• 1:19:19Danny Jones?

  The Israelis are doing things that could be used as collateral to compromise them?

• 1:19:27Speaker 02

  Yeah. And this has been going on for a very long time.

• 1:19:33Speaker 02

  Like, for example,

• 1:19:34Danny Jones?

  How, in what world is, does it make sense that one of our quote unquote biggest allies is infiltrating us with their intelligence service undeclared? And implementing laws, buying off our politicians. Meanwhile, we're sending them billions of dollars in tax money every single year. And yeah, I mean, the list goes on. Then you have the whole Epstein thing, which we'll get into. We know blackmailing people in the United States.

• 1:20:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, okay, let's go here. This is another good angle from which to understand what Epstein was up to and why.

• 1:20:13Speaker 02

  You know who set up the deep state in this country? People throw around this term, deep state, right? They used to call it the military industrial complex. That's what Eisenhower called it. Although, obviously, it involves intelligence and corporations as much as military industrial.

• 1:20:30Danny Jones?

  Right. I imagine it wasn't one person who did it.

• 1:20:34Speaker 02

  No, but who set up the military industrial intelligence corporate complex in the United States, which we now call the deep state? Were a bunch of Nazis and a bunch of Americans who helped set up the Nazis in Germany. Okay, so throughout the 1930s, the Dulles Brothers and Rockefeller and JP Morgan had a company in New York that financed the rise of both the Reich in Germany and Mussolini in Italy.

• 1:21:11Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:21:12Speaker 02

  And this same Alan Dulles, who was working with his brother John Foster Dulles, the same Alan Dulles, who eventually becomes the director of the CIA, was seen in Prague in 1944 at the height of the war with Germany, at the Skoda Works, the most sensitive German military industrial facility in the entire Reich, where the Germans were working on

• 1:21:46Speaker 02

  Nuclear fusion plasma and electroggravitics. And the story comes from John Warner IV, who is from the same family as Chris Mellon, the famous Mellon family, okay? And John Warner says that, I believe it was his father, a member of the Mellon family, was friends with Alan Dulles, that Alan Dulles would talk about how he went to this place, this facility in Prague, and he saw a Nazi flying saucer.

• 1:22:28Speaker 02

  And this is in 1944 while the war is still going on. So how was he able to get past enemy lines? Was he there at the invitation of the Nazis? Yes, he was there at the invitation of the Nazis. If you look at the ending of World War II, a number of very bizarre things take place that are integral to the formation of the American deep state. The first of them is that, so, okay, let's, again, let's keep it in mind, that financiers in New York funneled money to create Nazi Germany in the first place.

• 1:23:03Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:23:04Speaker 02

  And there was a huge Nazi contingent here in America. A lot of people don't know that there were so many American Nazis, even in New York, that on Long Island, there was a place called Camp Siegfried, which was a Nazi youth training camp, Nazi youth militia training camp.

• 1:23:23Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:23:24Speaker 02

  And there were daily trains from like Penn Station, they called it the Siegfried Express. You'd go to, these people lived in Manhattan, and they sent their kids to this place, you'd go on this hour ride out to Long Island and train at Camp Siegfried. This went on all through the 1930s.

• 1:23:37Danny Jones?

  Didn't they have Nazi rallies in Madison Square Garden?

• 1:23:41Speaker 02

  The Camp Siegfried people-

• 1:23:43Danny Jones?

  You can find photos of it, right?

• 1:23:44Speaker 02

  Yes, the Camp Siegfried people went to Madison Square Garden and held a huge Nazi rally there.

• 1:23:49Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:51Speaker 02

  And the movement was called America First. That was the name of the movement.

• 1:23:55Danny Jones?

  Shut up.

• 1:23:55Speaker 02

  America First.

• 1:23:57Danny Jones?

  Okay. Steve, find an image, type in like Nazis at Madison Square Garden.

• 1:24:01Speaker 02

  Everybody knows America First. They wanted Charles Lindbergh to become president of the United States.

• 1:24:06Danny Jones?

  How dare you try to smear Nick Fuentes like that?

• 1:24:08Speaker 02

  They wanted, I'm showing you what's actually going on today.

• 1:24:11Danny Jones?

  I'm just kidding.

• 1:24:12Speaker 02

  They want, no, it's not a joke. It's actually, yeah, it's a very serious matter where we're headed sociopolitically in this country.

• 1:24:18Danny Jones?

  Look at this shit, dude.

• 1:24:20Speaker 02

  America First.

• 1:24:20Danny Jones?

  Top left, look at that. Americas hold a Nazi rally in Madison Square Garden. Where does it say America First?

• 1:24:27Speaker 02

  You can look it up. America First.

• 1:24:30Danny Jones?

  Find that.

• 1:24:30Speaker 02

  Charles Lindbergh, America First. American Nazis. Anyway.

• 1:24:35Danny Jones?

  See if you can find it.

• 1:24:37Speaker 02

  So there was a huge social support. You gotta remember that. At the time, World War II broke out, one-fourth of Americans were German by ancestry. One-fourth of America was German by ancestry. And there were a lot of other non-German sympathizers. So there was a huge social support base for this in America. And then you also had these very wealthy financiers, literally funneling money to Germany to help build up the Reich. One of them, by the way, was Prescott Bush. George H.W. Bush's father. Okay?

• 1:25:06Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:07Speaker 02

  The Bush family is deep in this. The Bush family is deep in it. And we'll come back to that. So.

• 1:25:16Danny Jones?

  Oh, look at this. In 1940, a group of Yale University students founded the America First Committee to oppose US intervention in the European War. They quickly mobilized hundreds of other anti-war students to join the organization and persuade one of the nation's most outspoken isolationist, Charles Lindbergh, to support its cause. Lindbergh, uh, Lindberg, enormous celebrity, dating to the 1927 solo, non-stop flight across the Atlantic Ocean, helped the America First Committee become the national organization with as many as 800. But what does it say they were Nazis?

• 1:25:47Speaker 03

  I was still looking for it.

• 1:25:48Danny Jones?

  Okay. Oh, wait, wait, wait, what's this?

• 1:25:52Danny Jones?

  After Lindbergh accused Jews of being war agitators in a speech at Des Moines, Iowa on September 11th, 1941, the America First Committee's reputation changed significantly. Newspapers and magazines across the country denounced Lindbergh and the committee for promoting antisemitism and intolerance. Political cartoons, including PM newspaper artist Theodora Geisel-

• 1:26:14Speaker 02

  They literally wore swastikas and had swastika flags next to the American flag. They were literal Nazis, okay?

• 1:26:19Danny Jones?

  Who did?

• 1:26:20Speaker 02

  The people who held the rally at Madison Square Garden on behalf of America First and were trying to camp Seckried.

• 1:26:26Danny Jones?

  This is saying that he was just accusing Jews of being war agitators.

• 1:26:28Speaker 02

  No, no, no. Go look into the history of this. This is very clearly established. And then the FBI started investigating them. They shut them down during World War II because they said these people are an arm of the German government, okay? But here's my point.

• 1:26:41Speaker 02

  The civilian government of the United States shut them down from 1941 to 1945. But the financiers, the corporatists, and people in the OSS continued to have a vision that was essentially fascist in nature and aligned with the Nazis. And when you look at the last year of the war, a number of very strange things take place that are key to the question of what the American deep state is. So, I have a Substack piece about this that I just came out with a week ago. It's called "Secret Nazi Nuclear Weapons."

• 1:27:26Speaker 02

  "Secret Nazi Nuclear Weapons," 1939 to 1951. We have a document in the National Archives called the Zinsser Affidavit. It's an affidavit from a German pilot called Hans Zinsser, who reports on having flown in the direction of Rugen Island in the Baltic Sea in October of 1944. Okay, he's a German pilot flying up in northern Germany toward the Baltic Sea where there's the largest island of Germany called Rugen Island. And all of a sudden, there's this blinding flash of light. His radio goes out, crackles and goes out, EMP.

• 1:28:09Speaker 02

  And he sees a mushroom cloud rise. And inside the mushroom, there are these multi-colored sparkles, which is something you only witness if you see a nuclear explosion with your naked eye. It's the rest of the fissile material continuing to react inside the mushroom cloud.

• 1:28:27Danny Jones?

  What year again?

• 1:28:29Speaker 02

  October 1944, eight months before the Trinity Test.

• 1:28:34Danny Jones?

  Whoa.

• 1:28:38Speaker 02

  Now, if it was just the Zinser affidavit, that would be one thing. But we have an account by an Italian journalist called Luigi Romersa, who was sent by Mussolini to Rugen Island. And he said, "When I got there, there were a few other Italian dignitaries who had also been sent by Il Duce, and there were some Japanese dignitaries. And they took us into a bunker, and they made us put on something that looked like diving suits. And from this bunker, they witnessed an explosion with a huge pressure wave that leveled trees and some structures that they had built for like structural stress testing. And they were told to stay in the bunker for a while. They came out and they witnessed the devastation.

• 1:29:22Speaker 02

  And then Romersa was flown back first to Berlin and then back to Italy. Berlin to be debriefed, and then back to Italy to report to Mussolini. And at the same time, there are also Japanese communiques that were intercepted by the Allies, where the Japanese are talking about how the Germans have successfully tested some awesome new weapon."

• 1:29:43Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:29:44Speaker 02

  Okay. Now, there's a guy called Carter Hydrick, Plimpton Carter Hydrick, who's written a book by the name Critical Mass, where he makes a meticulous argument, looking at, you know, memos that were going back and forth between Oak Ridge National Laboratory and Los Alamos National Laboratory in the months leading up to the Trinity Test. And he makes a meticulous case there that "there was nowhere near enough uranium for that test. We didn't have enough enriched uranium. And there were serious technical difficulties with the plutonium bomb. So we dropped one uranium bomb on Japan and one plutonium bomb."

• 1:30:25Speaker 02

  And so, these memos show this huge deficit of uranium until May 1945. What happens in May 1945? The United States captures a German submarine, which is full of weapons-grade enriched uranium. And it just happens to have this guy Hans Schlick on board, who's an expert in plutonium bomb detonation.

• 1:30:51Danny Jones?

  Hans Schlick?

• 1:30:54Speaker 02

  Yeah. He is an expert in how to deliver a shaped charge simultaneously around a plutonium fissile core, okay? Which is the problem they were having at Los Alamos. And lo and behold, within a few months, the Trinity Test takes place and we built Fat Man and Little Boy. And the uranium bomb we dropped on Japan, on Hiroshima, was never tested. It was never tested. We tested the plutonium design, we never tested the uranium.

• 1:31:22Danny Jones?

  Hiroshima was Little Boy?

• 1:31:24Speaker 02

  Yes. And we never tested that bomb design. We never tested. Why? Because it was tested. We knew it would work, because it was a German design. And it was completed with German uranium. And you know what's worse? Is that the uranium that was on board that submarine came from Auschwitz. The Germans' most industrious uranium enrichment facility was at the Auschwitz concentration camp, where they were using the Jewish prisoners to handle radioactive material that they didn't want to be exposed to. Nobody knew what the fuck nuclear enrichment was in those days. So we killed those Japanese people in Hiroshima using uranium that was produced through Jewish

• 1:32:08Speaker 02

  slave labor at Auschwitz. Who made this deal? And why? Okay? Why didn't the Germans, if they got nukes in October? Remersa says the date he was taken to Rugen Island was October 11th, and it took place between October 11th and October 12th, 1944, eight months before Trinity.

• 1:32:32Speaker 02

  If the Nazis got the bomb, why didn't they use it against the United States? Right. There's evidence they were planning to use it at one point, because that's where the term Manhattan Project comes from. So people think Manhattan Project comes from the fact that there was a small team of scientists at Columbia University who were associated with the team at Los Alamos working on Trinity. No. Manhattan Project comes from the fact that the Allies found German schematics, maps, of the detonation of a superweapon in Lower Manhattan.

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• 1:34:07Speaker 02

  You can look it up, and there's Manhattan Island, and in Lower Manhattan, there's the rings of devastation that would be caused by this bomb the Germans were developing. By the way, you know nuclear fission was invented by Nazi Germany. They discovered it, not us. In 1938.

• 1:34:22Speaker 02

  So we were playing catch-up in terms of nuclear weapons with the Germans. And they even flew these Junkers 390 bombers over here, I mean, over here, well, not here, but to Manhattan. They would come right up to the coast of Manhattan and they would take pictures of Manhattan Island, just to like do a dry run of a potential drop of an atomic bomb on Manhattan. And that's where the term Manhattan Project comes from, is their, at one point, their intent to use this as a weapon against us.

• 1:34:49Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:34:50Speaker 02

  But it didn't happen. Why didn't it happen?

• 1:34:52Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:34:53Speaker 02

  Well, a number of things.

• 1:34:54Danny Jones?

  Meanwhile, Alan Dulles was staying in Switzerland the whole time.

• 1:34:58Speaker 02

  My ass, exactly, because he's been seen in Prague. So it obviously got out of Switzerland, and not only did he get out, he had access in 1944 to the most sensitive military industrial facility of Nazi Germany, where they're working on nuclear plasma fusion and electroggravitics. So Dulles cut a deal with some high-level Germans, and we know this happened because the way the CIA was formed was through the integration of General Reinhard Gallen's Eastern European spy network into the OSS. We realized that as soon as we're done with the war in Germany, the Soviet Union is going to be our next rival.

• 1:35:40Speaker 02

  And the Soviets had conquered all of Eastern Europe, up to Berlin, right? So for our intelligence, foreign intelligence, to be successful, we would have had to develop, under those abysmal conditions of the end of World War II, a massive spy network in Eastern Europe that could give us intelligence about the Soviets. Well, guess what? General Gallen already had that. The Germans had been fighting them for years, and they had an extensive SS spy network in Eastern Europe. So Dulles makes a deal with Gallen to absorb Gallen's organization into the OSS to create the Central Intelligence Agency.

• 1:36:21Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:36:22Speaker 02

  Okay? And this is all codified in the National Security Act of 1947, which establishes the structure of the deep state in America.

• 1:36:30Speaker 02

  Now, what's the first thing the CIA does? Operation Paperclip. So, no one ever thinks about the fact that-

• 1:36:36Danny Jones?

  And then Roswell happened.

• 1:36:37Speaker 02

  Uh huh. So, no one ever thinks, I'm gonna come to that in a minute. No one ever thinks about the fact that the CIA folks, who brought thousands of top Nazi talent into the United States, not just rocket scientists, psychologists, MKUltra's foundations were laid by these people too.

• 1:36:55Danny Jones?

  Yep.

• 1:36:56Speaker 02

  These thousands of Nazi scientists were brought into the United States by an organization which was co-constituted by SS spies, namely the CIA. How the OSS turned into the CIA was its integration with a bunch of Nazi spies. Mazel tov. Great move. Great move. So, you've, you know, you've infested our intelligence apparatus with these SS spies, and then you bring thousands of brilliant Nazi scientists over here, all between 1945 and 1947.

• 1:37:28Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:37:29Speaker 02

  And then Roswell happens, as you said, right? Well, guess what? Uh, in 1946, there are newspaper reports of Otto Skorzeny, the chief of special operations, psychological warfare and special operations for Nazi Germany, the guy who went and extracted Mussolini from Allied imprisonment on the island of Ponza and brought him back to Salo Republic, you know? Uh, when we had beaten the Italians, but not the Germans yet, right? So, this super commando, Skorzeny, who was in charge of psychological operations, he turns up in Spain in 1946, and there's newspaper reports of him launching

• 1:38:11Speaker 02

  nuclear-powered, saucer-shaped rockets toward the United States from Spain in 1946. That he's out there with General Franco, who, remember, is the last standing fascist leader in Europe, the only one that continued to be in power after World War II. And as Skorzeny's host, Franco is, is presiding over Skorzeny's operation to launch nuclear-powered, saucer-shaped rockets, they didn't know what to call them, flying saucers, toward the United States. And then Roswell happens within a year of that. Okay, now what's discovered at Roswell in the wreckage at Roswell? According to Colonel Corso, Velcro, Kevlar, night vision, maybe fiber optics.

• 1:38:55Speaker 02

  Not exactly space age technology. Okay, lasers, the Germans developed lasers to enrich uranium. That was the original purpose of it. Laser isotope enrichment.

• 1:39:05Danny Jones?

  What about the beings that were in the saucers?

• 1:39:08Speaker 02

  This is widely debated. Okay, so, you know, if anyone who's read my extensive writings on UFO subject, my book Closer Encounters, by no means am I saying that there are no grays and that, you know, like

• 1:39:21Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:39:21Speaker 02

  These little, you know, large eyed entities don't exist and that maybe they've been discovered in other crashes. Certainly, they've been abducting people. But there are accounts that, you know, for example, Annie Jacobson reported on in her book, that the entities discovered at Roswell were like children with progeria who had been experimented on and surgically altered.

• 1:39:46Danny Jones?

  By Mengele?

• 1:39:47Speaker 02

  Yeah. So, and by the way, how did he get free? And how did all these Nazis that set up shop in South America escape Nuremberg without knowledge of America? Of course, they didn't. Of course, they were set up there with the full knowledge of the CIA. And let me give you the most dangerous and telling example of that. In 1951, these news reports come out that Ronald Richter, a German nuclear physicist, is building fusion power for Juan Peron in Argentina. And there's photographs of Juan Peron standing there with Ronald Richter.

• 1:40:31Speaker 02

  And Peron is bragging that Richter is going to provide Argentines with liter to half-liter sized fusion reactors to power their homes. Liter to half-liter size nuclear fusion reactors. The fuck is he talking about? To this day, the official story is we've never achieved clean nuclear fusion, let alone at that scale where you could put it like in your car. Okay?

• 1:41:03Speaker 02

  So I'll tell you what he's talking about. An extension of the Bell Project. That project that Alan Dulles was there to witness in Prague in 1944 was a device, cylindrical device, that had two counter-rotating drums inside of it, where electromagnets were being used to subject mercury and thorium to torsion, to extremely high rotational stress, in order to catalyze a plasma fusion reaction, which generates more power than is put into the device. And what Ronald Richter...

• 1:41:45Speaker 02

  Okay, so, you know, he made these claims, Juan Peron did, probably foolishly. But, you know, you can't stop a fascist dictator from mouthing off, right? And so, people went to investigate. And they, you know, scientists, international atomic energy people. And they were like, "This doesn't look like any fusion that we understand." Like, "What is it? He's doing something. There's a massive amount of machinery here." And they found the machinery specifically involved electromagnetic rotation of nuclear isotopes. So it's a continuation of the Bell Project, of de Gogh.

• 1:42:20Danny Jones?

  The Nazi Bell?

• 1:42:21Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:42:22Danny Jones?

  I thought that was supposed to be a time machine or something.

• 1:42:24Speaker 02

  But here's the thing, is that nuclear plasma fusion, which doesn't need to be ignited by a fission trigger. That's how our fusion bombs work. Our fusion bombs are a nuclear bomb, and an atom bomb goes off, and it then creates a secondary fusion detonation. That produces fallout. The fallout comes from the fission trigger in a fusion bomb. If you could create a pure fusion explosion, it would be non-radioactive. There would be no fallout. Which is an incredibly useful nuclear bomb. Because if you have forces waiting to occupy an area that's just been nuked,

• 1:43:08Speaker 02

  they don't have to worry about the radiation. They can move in right away and secure the site, right? But here's the other thing about it, is that what they discovered, and this is why the technology was never released to the Argentine people, in these liter and half-liter containers that Peron was bragging about, is that this plasma fusion warps spacetime locally.

• 1:43:30Speaker 02

  Something happens with clean plasma fusion where the, it's like a vortex opens up. And the, the nuclear explosion that takes place, it's like it, it's the end of a straw that then sucks in background energy from the zero point field. So if you could find a way to control that, you could use plasma fusion to tap into the zero point field and get basically unlimited energy, what we call zero point energy. So in essence, there's a certain kind of electromagnetic plasma fusion of nuclear isotopes,

• 1:44:14Speaker 02

  which can be used to open a vortex that channels and funnels energy from the zero point field. And there's your free energy that people have been talking about. That's the power source of a flying saucer, of a UFO. Now, here's the point I want to make though, okay? It's all going back to Epstein and the deep state and so forth. It's this, that clearly what happened was a deal was made between, at that point, a losing, collapsing German Reich, an American military industrial intelligence people,

• 1:44:52Speaker 02

  to absorb the elite of Nazi Germany and move their projects either here or to other places that we control effectively, large parts of Latin America. And therefore, the American deep state at its deepest substratum is the Fourth Reich. It's an occulted Reich. And the people in it never changed their mentality. So for example, you have this account from Michael Herrera, the Marine who was in Indonesia. And he witnessed basically an American flying saucer land in the middle of the jungle where

• 1:45:35Speaker 02

  a bunch of special forces guys with no proper insignia, who spoke American English, were taking kidnapped kids and putting them onboard this flying saucer, which is probably built by Lockheed or Raytheon, or some such corporation.

• 1:45:56Speaker 02

  Now, you see, whoever, that was, what was that, like a decade ago? Something like that, recently?

• 1:46:02Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:04Speaker 02

  The mentality of whoever's running that program and manufacturing these craft and fielding them is the same mentality of the American eugenicists who created Nazi Germany to begin with. You know that eugenics comes from here. Hitler was playing catch-up. That all the Germans who created the German eugenics programs were saying, "Look, these Americans have like eugenics programs in, you know, 20 different states." In our country, it happened on a state level because of the structure of our constitution. But, you know, the Supreme Court never deemed it illegal. And so, we had this very advanced eugenics program by the 1930s. It had begun in the 1890s. And all the aristocrats in America were for it. All the top judges were for it.

• 1:46:49Speaker 02

  All the top politicians were for it. Uh, you know, the heads of all the universities were for it. They're all ardently pro-eugenics people. I document this in my book, Closer Encounters, in the chapter titled Nordic Breakaway Civilization. And I show how the idea of a Nordic master race comes from the United States of America, and it was copied by Nazi Germany. And the American elites who believed in this ideology created Nazi Germany in the first place. They're the ones who organized it, financed it, structured it. And then, in 1945 to 47, they brought home all the chickens who had roosted, you know, for all those years in that field laboratory that we set up, together with, you know, uranium that we put in the bomb dropped on Hiroshima that was, you know, enriched at Auschwitz.

• 1:47:32Speaker 02

  Okay, so, one very important thing to understand in terms of Epstein and these accusations about, you know, Jewish intelligence penetration in the United States and so forth, is that the deep state of this country is Nazi.

• 1:47:47Speaker 02

  So you're a Jew who grows up in Brooklyn, right? Epstein's from Coney Island. And maybe at some point you meet Meyer Lansky, who's recruiting exceptionally intelligent and, how can you put it?

• 1:48:06Speaker 02

  Shrewd, maybe ruthless, ruthlessly intelligent, young Jewish people. And, you know, you wind up getting introduced to somebody like Donald Barr at the Dalton School, who belongs to this deep state CIA power structure. And Donald Barr introduces you to a bunch of other people. Dalton parents get you set up with investment banking firms and so on and so forth. And you start to understand, especially as somebody who's into science fiction and frontier thinking, which Epstein, you know, absolutely was. Obviously, he read Donald Barr's sci-fi book, all right? Because he modeled certain aspects of his operation on it. But just generally Epstein was interested

• 1:48:51Speaker 02

  in the most fundamental scientific questions, like for example, conquering gravity. One person that I neglected to mention at the outset in terms of a source for my research on Epstein is Eric Weinstein. And Eric Weinstein has done a lot to expose Epstein's interest in anti-gravity. He was obsessed with it. He brought all the top physicists from all the leading institutions in the world, now Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT, the French equivalents of those academies, together at a conference that was titled, "Conquering Gravity." And we have the roster of the people who spoke at that. And he brought some of these people to his island and he took some of these scientists also out

• 1:49:35Speaker 02

  in the submarine, the Atlantis submarine, to study gravitational anomalies.

• 1:49:40Danny Jones?

  Jeffrey Duhon?

• 1:49:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, and Ghislaine Maxwell. She was the submarine pilot. Down to study gravitational anomalies in what we call basically the Bermuda Triangle. He would take physicists down there to study that. Because he's like, if gravity doesn't work the same way here, maybe there's something here that's a key to understanding how to conquer gravity. So he was interested in these things. So you have these interests from, you know, early on and you start to see how the world works.

• 1:50:06Speaker 02

  And you start to see what you can gain access to and what you can't gain access to. Okay. Now, another very important element of this story is, you know, Epstein's relationship with Robert Maxwell, which then leads to his relationship with Robert's daughter, Ghislaine Maxwell.

• 1:50:22Danny Jones?

  Let's put a pin right there.

• 1:50:23Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:50:23Danny Jones?

  This is fucking amazing. I just gotta pee so bad. My back teeth are floating. We'll be right back, folks. We're getting on to Atlantis, Epstein, Pergamon press, Satan, all of it. Okay. The American deep state started by the Nazis.

• 1:50:37Speaker 02

  Robert Maxwell.

• 1:50:38Danny Jones?

  Robert Maxwell, triple agent. Where were we with that?

• 1:50:43Speaker 02

  Okay. So. Robert Maxwell, by the way, is a fake name.

• 1:50:50Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:50:50Speaker 02

  It's entirely made up. He was born Jan Ludwig van Hoog. And he was from a town, kind of peasant town, that has crossed borders like multiple times because of the changing borders in that part of the world. At one point, it was part of Ukraine. And I think at the time when he was born there, it might have been part of Czechoslovakia, which is going to be relevant because when, you know, he comes from a dirt poor family, like, you know, peasants, basically. And, but he was exceptionally intelligent and resourceful.

• 1:51:33Speaker 02

  And apparently very, you know, courageous and dashing person. He became a special forces intelligence operative during World War II, fighting against the Nazis as a resistance fighter. And so the fact that he was in Czechoslovakia is relevant because remember, again, the Skoda works, Hans Kammler's facility, where they were building the bell, was also in Czechoslovakia. And in the first phase of the defeat of Nazi Germany, when military intelligence operatives were clearing out German sites all across the Reich.

• 1:52:22Speaker 02

  He participated in that. And at that point, he made up a fake name for himself, Ivan de Morier. I think it was based on some cigarette brand he liked to smoke. And so he's operating as a military intelligence guy in the area where the Bell was being constructed and helping the Allies to like examine German sites and clear them out and stuff. And he makes it all the way to Britain. He becomes a, actually, I think he might have gone back in Czechoslovakia and operated in that area later because at one point late in the war, he makes it to Britain through France.

• 1:53:07Speaker 02

  And he becomes a, basically, an MI6 operative. Okay, they recruit him. And I guess he learns English very quickly, very fluently. Eventually, he became a British politician. So, and adopted the name Maxwell to fit into, you know, British high society more effectively. So, he gets recruited by MI6 after having worked as a sort of freelance military intelligence guy and then having been a member of the French Resistance for a while, which is interesting because, you know, I believe Ghislaine Maxwell was born in Paris and is originally French by nationality. And then later she winds up getting a degree in French literature.

• 1:53:50Speaker 02

  That's what she studies in university. So, he was a member of the French Resistance against the Nazis. And then he winds up being recruited by MI6 and settles down in Britain. Where eventually, he develops these corporations and becomes a British politician, right? Now, for whatever reason, and I can, I could speculate as to why, his experiences, you know, during and immediately after the war compel him to take over the Springer Scientific Journal Publishing Company. There's this company, it's still called that to this day, but he took over Springer, which

• 1:54:33Speaker 02

  published most of the top scientific journals in the world. And he amalgamated it to, subsumed it under this company he called Pergamon. And why did he pick this name, Pergamon? Well, You know, everybody talks about the Library of Alexandria, but there were many cities, not many, there were a few major cities in the classical world that were known for their libraries and like as places of science and erudition and technological innovation and so forth. And one of them was Paragamon.

• 1:55:07Danny Jones?

  Throne of Satan.

• 1:55:08Speaker 02

  Well, the Christians demonized it as the throne of Satan, because you know, like the way the Christians skinned Hypatia of Alexandria alive, you know, Hypatia was the guardian of the library at Alexandria and the head of the academy. And, you know, under Bishop Kirill, the Christians skinned her alive.

• 1:55:26Danny Jones?

  What?

• 1:55:27Speaker 02

  A Christian mob attacked her, and she was the first person to be skinned alive and then burned as a witch. Okay?

• 1:55:34Danny Jones?

  What was her name?

• 1:55:35Speaker 02

  Hypatia of Alexandria.

• 1:55:37Danny Jones?

  Hypatia?

• 1:55:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's the first witch killing in Christian history was

• 1:55:41Danny Jones?

  Whoa.

• 1:55:42Speaker 02

  The woman was the equivalent of like, I mean, we don't even have like, it's like, I imagine if she were running like, I don't know, Harvard and, you know, Brookhaven National Laboratory at the same time.

• 1:55:54Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:55:55Speaker 02

  She was as a woman, the head of the scientific establishment of the world at that time. So they made an example out of her. Like, you women have no business.

• 1:56:01Danny Jones?

  What year would that have been?

• 1:56:02Speaker 02

  In the early 400s, I believe.

• 1:56:04Danny Jones?

  March 415, a fanatical mob of anti-pagan Christians led by a church reader named Peter

• 1:56:13Speaker 02

  Abalone shells. They used abalone shells to scrape her skin off while she was still alive, and then they burned her.

• 1:56:18Danny Jones?

  They dragged Hypatia from her chariot into the Caesareum, then serving as a church, then serving as a church there, according to Socrates, Scholastius, Scholasticus, they stripped her and scraped her skin with sharp shells until she died. Oh my God. Scroll down.

• 1:56:43Speaker 02

  And this guy was canonized, the guy who ordered this was canonized by the church as a saint.

• 1:56:49Speaker 02

  Saint Cyril. Saint, and he's worshiped both by the Catholics and even more important to the Orthodox Christians.

• 1:56:55Danny Jones?

  Jesus Christ.

• 1:56:56Speaker 02

  They love this guy, okay? Now, I've mentioned this on your show before, I think, but it bears repeating that when Alexandria and Pergamon and Corinth and other centers of learning in the ancient world were lost, we lost about 98% of the knowledge that the West had at that time, okay? Studies have been done to show this from classical references to texts that no longer exist.

• 1:57:21Danny Jones?

  And 99% of the texts that was in the library was Greek.

• 1:57:26Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:57:28Speaker 02

  Including Greek translations of texts from other parts of the world, but Greek translations of them. Anyway.

• 1:57:36Speaker 02

  So Pergamon was such a place, like Alexandria, and just the way the Christians skinned this woman alive, they demonized Pergamon as the throne of Satan retrospectively. So he picks, Robert Maxwell, the name Pergamon, for a publishing company that's going to consolidate control over all scientific journal publications.

• 1:58:02Speaker 02

  And set up the peer review process. Again, Eric Weinstein is great on this. He really, you know.

• 1:58:10Danny Jones?

  So Pergamon was named-

• 1:58:11Speaker 02

  Exposed this angle of the Epstein story.

• 1:58:12Danny Jones?

  Pergamon was, was sort of named the throne of Satan by the Christians. It was sort of like a, it wasn't necessarily-

• 1:58:20Speaker 02

  Because knowledge is satanic.

• 1:58:22Danny Jones?

  Because-

• 1:58:23Speaker 02

  Science is satanic. Science is satanic. Science is the forbidden fruit in Eden that was offered to Eve by the serpent. And knowledge is satanic and we have no business investigating the secrets of heaven and so on and so forth, right?

• 1:58:36Danny Jones?

  Okay, so there's no other myths that have anything to do with like a real-

• 1:58:39Speaker 02

  That's why it was called that.

• 1:58:40Danny Jones?

  That's why it was called that.

• 1:58:43Speaker 02

  So he picks this name, and that, oh, but it is an interesting thing is that there is a Greek, it might have been from the Roman period, but you know, Greek style sculpture, like a huge architectural sculpture called the, what's it, the Throne of Pergamon, the Pergamon Throne, the Throne of Pergamon, and the Nazis were obsessed with this thing, and they brought it to Berlin. It's, I think it's still in the museum in Berlin.

• 1:59:09Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 1:59:10Speaker 02

  Yes, Throne of Pergamon, Throne of Satan, whatever, and it's this, it's called the Altar of Pergamon.

• 1:59:16Danny Jones?

  The Altar of Pergamon.

• 1:59:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, I have it in my Substack piece, I have a picture of it in my Substack piece on, you know, the Outlaw Ocean piece about Ghislaine Maxwell. So it also had that connotation, and Robert Maxwell knew that when he named the press this. I mean, this was a famous architectural sculpture in Berlin.

• 1:59:34Danny Jones?

  Was he religious at all?

• 1:59:35Speaker 02

  There it is, there it is. I think we're gonna come around to understanding what religious inclination the man had, alright?

• 1:59:44Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:59:45Speaker 02

  So, he then puts himself in a position to review all cutting-edge scientific research before it's made public, because people submit these journal articles and they have to be peer-reviewed, right? So Pergamon is getting the heads-up on any potential breakthroughs in scientific research and technological development, which also puts you in a position to sequester knowledge. You could take it for yourself and hide it away, and never let it get into the public sphere. But definitely, you've got a handle on what's going on, okay?

• 2:00:26Speaker 02

  And, so Robert Maxwell also was friends with Jacques Cousteau. They were very good personal friends, and Ghislaine grew up knowing Jacques Cousteau. And I think it's pretty clear, if you look at her interests in life...

• 2:00:52Speaker 02

  The fact that she named, you know, Dark Journalist dug this up, that she named the submarine she was piloting for Epstein, the Atlantis submarine. It's pretty clear that Jeffrey Epstein's connections to the Atlantis mythos are coming from Ghislaine Maxwell. Because she says that, oh, I don't know, who got this out of...

• 2:01:15Danny Jones?

  This is where her obsession with Atlantis began?

• 2:01:19Speaker 02

  Yes, because, look, what happened is Jacques Cousteau admitted to Robert Maxwell that the whole reason he went into oceanography was to find Atlantis. So Jacques Cousteau became incredibly world famous as an oceanographer and an oceanic explorer, but it's because he was obsessed with trying to find Atlantis that he got into that in the first place. And there are rumors that Ghislaine eventually cultivated a relationship with Jacques Cousteau's granddaughter Alexandra Cousteau, and that she was on the island. Ghislaine seems to have been, seems to be bisexual.

• 2:02:01Speaker 02

  So it's rumored that, you know, from out of her idolization of Jacques Cousteau, she cultivated this relationship with Alexandra Cousteau. Alexandra Cousteau's been asked about it, I think she might, may have even been subpoenaed over it, and she asked, she said no. She denied having been on the island. But the fact that she was queried about it, you know, by itself suggests something. Anyway, so Ghislaine develops this fascination with Atlantis. Another way we know this is that, again, Daniel List put this together. When she was fleeing the authorities after Epstein's murder, as she finally left New York City, you know, she was a Manhattanite, when she finally left New York City, she

• 2:02:44Speaker 02

  gets this property in an isolated area of New Hampshire under a false name. And the name that she uses is Janet Marshall. Janet Marshall was actually called Janet Atlantis Marshall Stevenson. And sometimes she published under the name Janet Stevenson. She used all these names. But Janet Atlantis Marshall was a feminist author who wrote this book called Departure about a woman on a, an old, you know, an old sailing vessel from like the 19th century,

• 2:03:26Speaker 02

  who develops a rapport with the ship's captain and who also has to put up with these like, I think they're Polynesian islanders who are on the boat, who believe that it's bad luck for a woman to be on a sailing voyage and so on and so forth. So they're very hostile to her being there. And then, of course, you know, she's the one woman in a crew of men. And the captain gets sick and, and I think also the, the, what do you call it? Whatever, vice captain, you know, the guy under the captain.

• 2:03:54Speaker 03

  The first mate.

• 2:03:55Speaker 02

  The first mate, yes, is also incapacitated. And this very shrewd, you know, like, perceptive, compelling woman finds that she has to take control of the ship or they're all gonna sink. And somehow she manages to become the captain of the ship and to command people's allegiance and successfully, you know, sail on, right? So what does it tell you, first of all, about the personal psychology of Glenn Maxwell? That this author is important to her with a story like this, right? This woman amidst like powerful men who finds a way to captain this ship, right? And to become a, you know, captain of her own destiny and so forth.

• 2:04:40Danny Jones?

  Also, what's the story with that weird blue and white temple on Epstein Island?

• 2:04:44Speaker 02

  Yes, exactly. So my point is this, is that if she's using the name basically Janet Atlantis to get this property in, in New Hampshire, and she named Epstein submarine the Atlantis submarine, and she grew up, you know, with Jacques Cousteau having been her father's buddy, and he's searching for Atlantis his whole life, well, it stands to reason, and the reason that there's an Atlantean temple on Little St. James, it's a temple dedicated to Poseidon. Poseidon was the founding god of Atlantis. So Poseidon established Atlantis in the Greek myths, and this temple on Little St. James was a temple to Poseidon, so it's an Atlantean temple.

• 2:05:24Speaker 02

  Also, there's a labyrinth at Zorro Ranch, that was Jeffrey Epstein's property out west in New Mexico, the Zorro Ranch.

• 2:05:35Danny Jones?

  Yep.

• 2:05:36Speaker 02

  Right? There's a labyrinth there in the shape of Atlantis, the ground plan of Atlantis, as Plato describes it.

• 2:05:42Danny Jones?

  That circular maze?

• 2:05:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's a concentric circular maze that's basically a representation of Plato's description of the ground plan of Atlantis. Now, follow me here. Why is Epstein building these things? Because Ghislaine Maxwell kind of like made this myth interesting to him. She's the one who was obsessed by it, and he winds up, I think, identifying and connecting with the Atlantean mythos through his relationship with her.

• 2:06:12Danny Jones?

  Find a picture of his Zorro Ranch Atlantis maze.

• 2:06:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, or labyrinth.

• 2:06:20Danny Jones?

  Labyrinth.

• 2:06:21Speaker 02

  Now, at Zorro Ranch, according to some of the victims, women were taken there and held there.

• 2:06:33Danny Jones?

  Is that it?

• 2:06:34Speaker 02

  Yeah. In some cases, women were, that's exactly how Plato describes the structure of Atlantis.

• 2:06:40Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:41Speaker 02

  The three concentric rings and the four pathways leading in toward the center of the city, four waterways leading to the center of the city. So, some of these victims say they were taken to Zorro Ranch to be used as breeders for genetically enhanced fetuses. Jeffrey Epstein had key card access to the evolutionary dynamics division of the biology department at Harvard University. And he maintained that access to the Evolutionary Dynamics Program at Harvard for a decade after his first prosecution. So this guy's already, in, what was it, 2007, 2008, something like that, already prosecuted,

• 2:07:22Speaker 02

  gets off with a very light plea deal because the authorities are told he belongs to intelligence. It's above your pay grade, which by the way is further evidence he was working with US intelligence, not just Israel.

• 2:07:34Danny Jones?

  Right, if it was Mossad, how would they?

• 2:07:37Speaker 02

  They were not gonna swing that over a federal judge and prosecutor. That's our intelligence, they were told, that he worked with. Again, worked with, not worked for.

• 2:07:49Danny Jones?

  What about the FBI, though?

• 2:07:51Speaker 02

  The FBI and the CIA have been engaged in a power struggle since the days of J. Edgar Hoover. Their whole books have been written about it. So if the FBI wants somebody, they don't always get them. Because CIA, although it's not supposed to be operating domestically, does plenty of domestic operations. And so does NSA. And so, you know, FBI has severe limitations on what it can manage. They wanted the UFO file, too, and they couldn't get it. There's evidence of that, Hoover trying to get a hold of the UFO files. So the FBI UFO files are about how the FBI can't get a hold of the UFO files. Okay? Anyway, so Evolutionary Dynamics, Harvard. Alan Dershowitz, you know, Trump's lawyer, was also very close to Epstein.

• 2:08:36Speaker 02

  And he says that the stuff Epstein used to say about genetics freaked him out because it sounded like Nazi eugenics talk. So one Jew saying about the other Jew, like, this shit he used to talk about genetics sounded like the Nazis to me. I don't know what he was up to, but it didn't sound good. And it was about eugenics, creating, like, using genetic engineering. And by the way, Jeffrey Epstein funded the research that led to CRISPR. Our CRISPR, state-of-the-art genetic engineering, that research was funded by him, too. Okay? So he wanted to basically implant these CRISPR fetuses into these women on Zoro Ranch and breed a kind of super race. And interestingly enough, all the women who were being used for that, and the majority

• 2:09:21Speaker 02

  of the models that were being funneled through his modeling agency and brought onto the island and so forth, were of Nordic phenotype.

• 2:09:31Speaker 02

  And that fact is particularly interesting if you line it up next to what Glenn Maxwell's aides say. I have this referenced in my Substack article on Glenn Maxwell. One of her, she would have these live-in male aides. And one of them talked extensively. And he said that, he was from, he's from Sweden. I don't remember exactly his, he has a very Swedish name. And he said that she would bring young, good-looking, smart men from

• 2:10:09Speaker 02

  Sweden, every three months, on tourist visas, she would rotate them, only from Sweden. Blonde, good-looking, intelligent aides. And he said, you know, the creepy thing was when I was living there and doing all this stuff for her, I would notice that like, you know, if my hair was on my pillow, or like, you know, there was hair in the, my hair was in the bathroom or something, it would be gone. Next thing I noticed, it would be gone. And I wasn't the one who cleaned it up.

• 2:10:38Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:10:39Speaker 02

  Now, you've seen Gattaca?

• 2:10:42Danny Jones?

  I don't think so.

• 2:10:44Speaker 02

  Okay. It's a sci-fi film from the late 1990s. From a single strand of hair, you can clone somebody. And what this Swede was saying was that his hair was being collected from his room by somebody. His DNA was being collected. So it wasn't just the women. She was rotating the Swedish men, every three months, to be her male, her male aides at her house, and do all kinds of stuff for her, her personal assistants. And by the way, the other interesting thing that he said was, she kept a grenade on her desk at all times. Like, ready to grab it and pull the pin. And it was because she believed that at any moment, like, they were, they were gonna come for her. And she'd be damned

• 2:11:29Speaker 02

  if she doesn't take them out with her.

• 2:11:32Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 2:11:33Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 2:11:34Speaker 02

  So, and you gotta remember, this woman was a submarine pilot.

• 2:11:38Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:11:38Speaker 02

  She was a trained helicopter pilot. When Epstein was going all around the Bahamas, searching for Atlantis, I'll come to that next, she was the one piloting the helicopter herself. Okay? So, you know, this is like a 007 kind of woman. Trained helicopter pilot, trained submarine pilot, expert diver from the days when her father was Buddy with Jacques Cousteau. She learned to be a diver, deep sea diver. And her life's ambition from a young age was to become a marine biologist. Her father forced her to go into business. She wanted to be a marine biologist. So, anyway, we're dealing with some such person, and she keeps a grenade on her desk at all times, right?

• 2:12:23Speaker 02

  Ready to use it when they come for her. Who's the "they" who's gonna come for her? We'll get to that.

• 2:12:29Danny Jones?

  The Olympians.

• 2:12:32Speaker 02

  So, she's piloting these helicopters around the Bahamas, and her and Epstein are island hopping down there. And the most interesting thing that they did is they went to Fidel Castro.

• 2:12:44Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:12:44Speaker 02

  And asked him for permission to dive on a site off the western end of Cuba, where Paulina Zelitzky, a kind of oceanographic archaeologist, marine archaeologist, had discovered an Atlantean city. And, look, this is no fucking joke. There are sonar scans of this thing. And it was reported, for a while, in the press, to the point where I distinctly remember, and I've got some photos of this in the piece I wrote. I distinctly remember that National Geographic said they were gonna look into it, that it's interesting, we'll look into it, we'll send some people there. The story disappeared.

• 2:13:29Speaker 02

  And Paulina Zelitzky, okay, so, it's in a part of Cuba that's near Mexico, between the western end of Cuba and the Yucatan Peninsula, where we have Mayan pyramids, right?

• 2:13:38Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:13:39Speaker 02

  So, she, and the structure she found kinda looked Mayan.

• 2:13:43Danny Jones?

  How deep?

• 2:13:44Speaker 02

  Here's the thing. The last time that piece of earth was above water.

• 2:13:49Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:13:49Speaker 02

  Was fifty thousand years ago.

• 2:13:52Danny Jones?

  Fifty.

• 2:13:52Speaker 02

  Fifty thousand years ago. Now I'm gonna come back to that timeframe. So, most people agree, who've done Atlantis research, Atlantis was destroyed about twelve thousand years ago.

• 2:14:01Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:14:01Speaker 02

  So this is an early Atlant- this is like way before the destruction, this site. This site went underwater fifty thousand years ago. And the-

• 2:14:11Danny Jones?

  How was Steve find images of this underwater?

• 2:14:13Speaker 02

  Paulina Zelitsky.

• 2:14:15Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:14:16Speaker 02

  Paulina Zelitsky.

• 2:14:18Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:14:18Speaker 02

  Um, underwater city.

• 2:14:21Danny Jones?

  Off the coast of Cuba.

• 2:14:22Speaker 02

  Off the coast of Cuba.

• 2:14:23Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:14:23Speaker 02

  Yeah. And, it's crazy, man. The thing is like, it's miles. It's square miles in size. It's a city. And, uh, she noticed it had some quasi-Mayan features to the structures. So she decided to trace any possible connection to the Mayan structures in Yucatan. There it is. Now that's an Atlantean city, an actual one. Okay?

• 2:14:48Danny Jones?

  So would these are, what kinda, these are some sort of scans?

• 2:14:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, based on like sonar.

• 2:14:54Danny Jones?

  How deep does it say this is?

• 2:14:57Speaker 02

  It's-

• 2:15:01Danny Jones?

  See if you can find it, Steve.

• 2:15:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, six hundred and fifty meters. Below sea level.

• 2:15:05Speaker 03

  Two square kilometers.

• 2:15:07Speaker 02

  Depth of six hundred and fifty meters below sea level.

• 2:15:08Danny Jones?

  How many mile, how many feet is that? Six hundred- How many feet is six hundred and fifty?

• 2:15:15Speaker 03

  It's like times three, six times three is like-

• 2:15:17Danny Jones?

  Huh?

• 2:15:18Speaker 03

  Uh, something like three, three thousand feet.

• 2:15:22Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 2:15:25Speaker 02

  You can do the calculation on the side and let us know. Um, look, so she goes to Mexico, to Yucatan, to trace the connection, potential connection to the Mayans. She's arrested in Mexico, severely interrogated, held under horrible conditions. And, for, for no, no legitimate crime.

• 2:15:41Danny Jones?

  Uh-huh. Two thousand feet.

• 2:15:45Speaker 02

  So Ghislaine Maxwell wanted to dive on this, see? She went to Castro with Epstein and asked permission to dive on this site. Okay?

• 2:15:54Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:15:55Speaker 02

  Or maybe take the submarine down.

• 2:15:58Danny Jones?

  Yeah, you couldn't, you couldn't, I don't know how you would dive 2,000 feet.

• 2:16:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:16:01Danny Jones?

  But yeah, you'd have to have the submarine down.

• 2:16:03Speaker 02

  So, so anyway, they severely interrogate Paulina Zelitzky in Mexico. Put the fear of God in her and packed her up and sent her back to Canada where she came from. And she refused to ever discuss this subject again. Even people I know have approached her, like family, friends of hers, and she doesn't want to talk about it. So the whatever they did to her in Mexico in the prison they took her to, you know, under no legitimate legal charge, was so bad that she was scared out of talking about this for the rest of her life.

• 2:16:37Danny Jones?

  Why do you think that is?

• 2:16:38Speaker 02

  I'm sure it wasn't the Mexicans were really interrogating her. I'm sure it was, you know, the folks we have down in Mexico.

• 2:16:42Danny Jones?

  Well, I wouldn't.

• 2:16:43Speaker 02

  Because, you know, you know, Mengele was in Mexico too. We didn't, we thought he was too hot to bring him into the United States. So we would deal with Mengele in Mexico. We've gone to, and you know, the Nazis, another funny story, funny, it's not, it's a horrible story, but another story that shows you how the Nazis had our deep state, you know, had the balls of our deep state in their, in their grip, is that the paperclip rocket scientists used to go to border towns in Mexico and meet with their counterparts coming from Argentina and from Mexico. And they would hand all the classified rocketry data to the, their Nazi associates, all the sensitive experiments they were working on, you know, as part of the American rocket program.

• 2:17:24Danny Jones?

  And we let them do it, we knew about it.

• 2:17:25Speaker 02

  Well, they got caught, right? And then they get caught and they get interrogated, I think by the FBI. And they get interrogated and, and here's their response. They go, you know, oh, so next thing, after they're grilled about this, one of the rockets goes off course, the rockets from the, you know, the, the program that was ongoing in Texas run by these paperclip scientists. And it hits Mexico. It's an area in Mexico.

• 2:17:52Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:17:53Speaker 02

  And the paperclip scientists are like, "You know, if you keep putting us under this kind of pressure and interrogating us and questioning us all the time, rockets are bound to go off course. And one of them might cause a war with Mexico." And basically, our deep state stood down, or whatever. Our government stood down. Okay? So that's another vignette that tells you who is really in control here. It's the CIA people who brought these freaking Nazis over in the first place and set them up. And they were going down and dealing with Mangala in Mexico. Anyway, let me not go off on a tangent. So Paulina Zelensky has a shit scared out of her, and she won't talk about the subject again. But yes, they found an Atlantean city and Ghislaine Maxwell wanted to go down there, you know, probably with the Atlantis submarine and explore it.

• 2:18:38Speaker 02

  Well, what does this all tell you? I mean, they're interested in Atlantis. They're interested in eugenics. They're interested in anti-gravity.

• 2:18:54Speaker 02

  What does that look like to you?

• 2:18:58Speaker 02

  And answer me this question. If Jeffrey Epstein had access to the deepest layer of the American deep state, where we have ongoing electro-gravitics programs, where the truth about Atlantis is already known, and where eugenics research is probably already also being conducted in underground facilities, why would he be running some ghetto operation to replicate it himself?

• 2:19:29Speaker 02

  You follow? Like, if you're trying to figure out how a UFO flies, it means you don't have access to the ones being built by Lockheed.

• 2:19:36Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:19:37Speaker 02

  If you're got some ranch out there and you have to, like, create a modeling agency to funnel women out there to this ranch, and you happen to have keycard access to an evolutionary biology program at Harvard, and you're gonna figure out how to enhance some fetuses and, like, ghetto-style impregnate these women with them, it means you don't have access to the deep underground military facilities where cutting-edge eugenics research is probably taking place.

• 2:20:02Speaker 02

  So...

• 2:20:03Danny Jones?

  Think he was trying himself to achieve parity?

• 2:20:07Speaker 02

  Yes. Not even parity, like, something, some kind of foothold.

• 2:20:14Speaker 02

  That means he's on the outside. He's not working for the people who run the world. He's on the outside.

• 2:20:22Danny Jones?

  I mean, right. Do you think it's possible that he did start working for the people that run the world and then got so much power and got so much wealth that he just got bored and said, you know what? I'm gonna try to build my own breakaway civilization or something that could at least compete.

• 2:20:42Speaker 02

  I don't think so. I think that that idea was probably in his mind very early on, like when he's reading Donald Barr's science fiction at the Dalton School. And when he's getting involved with Robert Maxwell, who is looking at all of the cutting edge scientific research in various fields that's being filtered through Bergamon and reviewed. I think this was, he was obsessed with these ideas. See, this, this, you know, look, people don't like in general to see high intelligence associated with morally questionable behavior. It's something about the Nazis that really bothers a lot of people. It's like how brilliant these people were and you know, what they were doing with their intelligence.

• 2:21:22Speaker 02

  Epstein is another case of this where the mass media narrative has, you know, turned him into a cardboard, cut out sex trafficker. I mean, that's ridiculous. That is the most superficial layer of the operation that he was running. And what was really motivating him are these like occult and scientific quests involving Atlantis and anti-gravity and eugenics. And clearly, when you look at his endeavors in those areas, he's making the moves he is because he's shut out of the Nazi deep state that really does have advanced programs in these areas.

• 2:22:03Speaker 02

  We know from the newspaper reports that came out in the 19, mid 1950s, and around about 1954, that Martin Aircraft, which later became Lockheed Martin and Convair and Lear and various other firms were already building, working on building flying saucers. They were like, we're months away from rolling these off the assembly line. And the whole story went dark. Why did it go dark? Who came? To the CEO of Martin Aircraft, who is quoted in these articles, saying like, "We're this close." And we've cracked it. Scientifically, we've cracked it. We could build it.

• 2:22:38Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:22:39Speaker 02

  Who came to him and said, "Oh, no, you don't." I'll tell you who. That was 1954. In 1944 to 45, we retrieved that technology from Nazi Germany. We already had it, and by "we," I mean an amalgamation of the SS and the deepest layers of American military industrial intelligence. It already existed. So they came to the CEO of Martin Aircraft and said,

• 2:23:08Speaker 02

  "First of all, you're reinventing the wheel. We have this. Second, we'll let you work on it. You can work on it." And this is where Lockheed Martin's contract came from. "We'll let you work on it, but this is never going to be made public."

• 2:23:20Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:23:21Speaker 02

  "And we're going to use it for these breakaway activities." They continue, apparently, to this day, based on, you know, Herrera's testimony. Right?

• 2:23:31Danny Jones?

  This is when these scientists in the 50s in the United States were like on the precipice of breaking anti-gravity. One of the guys is who Eric Weinstein always raves about, who he says is one of the most brilliant minds in mathematics. He had a father who was working on it. I can't remember the name of them off the top of my head right now. And then there was these conferences that were happening in North Carolina on anti-gravity. And then, all of a sudden, this stuff just goes dark. And then there's also Townsend Brown.

• 2:23:57Speaker 02

  Yes, and then there's that guy, I really feel terrible. I can't remember his name, because he was a whistleblower, and I think something very bad happened to him on account of his testimony. But he was a guy coming, I think, from out of Lockheed.

• 2:24:11Speaker 02

  I don't know if he was coming from out of Lockheed. He was invited to a top-secret Lockheed display of cutting-edge technology that the firm had developed over the years. And he saw something, and I think he was at this event in the 1980s, if I remember correctly. And he saw some beaten-up, old flying saucers, which he called the flux liners. They're these black things. You could look them up, actually. Steve, they're very cool-looking.

• 2:24:42Speaker 02

  Flux liners. They're like...

• 2:24:46Speaker 02

  Crude flying saucers. Dark gray or black. And he said they looked like they'd been used a ton already. And he was basically told that these were developed in the 60s.

• 2:25:01Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:25:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, but, okay, yeah. I said that one down there, I've done a better image of them myself, but yeah.

• 2:25:09Danny Jones?

  Whoa.

• 2:25:10Speaker 02

  Okay, so.

• 2:25:11Danny Jones?

  Looks very, uh, it looks very man-made.

• 2:25:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, these were developed in the 60s by Lockheed Martin. And supposedly, these have gone as far as Saturn. Okay, they go through the, Americans go through the solar system with the, have been going through the solar system with these since the 1960s. So the breakthrough happened circa 1955 in these companies. They were made aware that even older Nazi technology was in the possession of the United States. And then they continued to develop it into this in the 1960s. And that's where the state of the tech was in the 60s. Imagine where it's at today. Imagine where it's at today. By the way, I was told by somebody who was working with Lockheed for a while that this person was told very clearly, the Tic Tac is ours.

• 2:25:58Speaker 02

  Tic Tac is made by Lockheed Martin.

• 2:26:00Danny Jones?

  I believe that.

• 2:26:01Speaker 02

  Yeah. So that was a red teaming exercise with the Nimitz and all that. That was us testing our own capabilities against our own technology.

• 2:26:09Danny Jones?

  That seems like the most logical explanation.

• 2:26:11Speaker 02

  And also, by the way, it sends a message to Putin and the Chinese, like, hey, folks.

• 2:26:21Danny Jones?

  That's so crazy.

• 2:26:21Speaker 02

  So, so, look, my, so my point is this, that now, I think another angle from which to understand this is to delve a little bit into the mythos of Atlantis, which we have done in, in previous conversations, but I want to come at it from a different angle, which I don't think we've discussed before. Because generally, I like to stay close to empirical evidence, you know, to the hardest facts possible, like the huge stones at Baalbek. And, you know, these, these high-precision megalithic structures that we find all around the world, that clearly were built by some civilization that's not in our recorded history. And that has a level of engineering that almost still exceeds ours. Right? So I like to approach Atlantis from that angle, in terms of the hard evidence, generally.

• 2:27:08Danny Jones?

  Atlantis, there's no, the only evidence that we have of Atlantis, right, is thousands of years of oral history.

• 2:27:15Speaker 02

  No, the evidence we have is all these structures. Okay, again, I've said this before.

• 2:27:20Danny Jones?

  Above-ground structures, you're talking about.

• 2:27:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. All these megalithic, high-precision structures were built by a civilization that's tens of thousands of years old. And, for example, the erosion on the Sphinx demonstrates. The Sphinx dates from, you know, like 12,000 years or so.

• 2:27:37Danny Jones?

  Imagine if we were able to actually explore some of those structures underwater, like the one next to Cuba, and determine that those were precise.

• 2:27:44Speaker 02

  Or under Antarctica, and it will come around to this. I think Antarctica is Atlantis.

• 2:27:49Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:27:49Speaker 02

  But we have to come around to that. And Glenn Maxwell found that out. There's evidence that she found that out.

• 2:27:54Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:27:55Speaker 02

  Very late.

• 2:27:55Danny Jones?

  Let's go.

• 2:27:56Speaker 02

  Very late she found it out. So, initially, Glenn Maxwell interests Jeffrey Epstein in exploring the Caribbean to find Atlantis, the area around the Bermuda Triangle and extending all the way to Cuba, because Edgar Cayce claimed that that's where Atlantis was. So, we haven't talked about this before, because I don't like to rest arguments on channeled material or psychically-acquired, you know, information, okay? But, remote viewing is a thing, and we now know that, you know, remote viewers, as adept

• 2:28:35Speaker 02

  as Joe McMonigal, used remote viewing to look all the way back through history. He looked at events in the distant past. And also into the future. Probable futures. So, and then there's a guy called, um, his name is escaping me, right? Stefan Schwartz. Stefan Schwartz, who I think was coming out of naval intelligence and got involved with the remote viewing program. And Stefan Schwartz wound up specializing in using remote viewing for archaeology. He would explore, like, the remnants of Alexandria off the coast of Egypt, using remote viewing

• 2:29:19Speaker 02

  to then determine sites to dive on and find underwater ruins that the remote viewing had shown had been important structures in the past. So this is a thing that's been legitimated since the age of Edgar Cayce, and it's the kind of thing that Cayce would do.

• 2:29:35Speaker 02

  And there's a certain degree of error, obviously, involved in this. I mean Edgar Cayce used his mediumistic abilities to successfully diagnose illnesses of all kinds of people who came to him for consultation. By the way, he never took any money. And also, listen, I'm not trying to promote Edgar Cayce. I mean, he was a Christian in his personal belief system, so I'm not trying to shill for Edgar Cayce, okay? But he happened to be really good at what he did. People would come to him, he would diagnose diseases they didn't know that they had, or the cures to diseases that they had. And he was very good at that, developed a reputation as a healer. And then they found out that he could read the past lives of the people who were coming to him. So he could see, like, say, origins of diseases they had now and issues they had in past lives.

• 2:30:20Speaker 02

  And he started offering, basically, past life readings to clients who would come to him. And in these past life readings, he discovered that we had this super civilization in the distant past, namely, what Plato called Atlantis.

• 2:30:39Speaker 02

  And Edgar Cayce described this civilization as being based in the Caribbean region. And he successfully predicted that evidence of it would be... So Cayce is doing these readings in the 1930s. He said, "Evidence of this would surface in the 60s off of Bimini." And it did. They found this, like, long... Bimini Road? Yeah, road. It's probably the top of a wall, actually, where the rest of the wall is under the sediment still. Definitely interesting looking. Is the top of a wall, megalithic wall. Anyway, Cayce predicted that. And he said that there's all kinds of Atlantean ruins in that area. Now, he thought Atlantis was based there. But if you look at what Plato writes about Atlantis, one of the main elements of the

• 2:31:22Speaker 02

  story is that the Atlanteans tried to conquer the world. And we're gonna get into what that exactly that means. But point being, it was a global maritime civilization. It wasn't only in one place, it had colonies all over the world.

• 2:31:37Danny Jones?

  Why do you think all the other Greeks mocked Plato for this kind of shit?

• 2:31:41Speaker 02

  That's not true. I've heard you say that with various guests. Plato was extremely highly respected in the ancient world. Extremely highly. There are, you know, some cases of, look, the Greeks all criticized each other. It was fortunately, a culture of extreme debate and, you know, you know, jokes and jests and it was a very free atmosphere of discussion. So sure, there are people who criticized Plato. But no, he was very highly respected and his source for this story is Solon. And the worst thing you could do in classical Greek society, at least in Athens, was attack Solon. It was like a Muslim attacking Muhammad. Okay? And we know, in fact, Solon was a family friend of Plato's father.

• 2:32:22Danny Jones?

  So what was Solon's position?

• 2:32:24Speaker 02

  He was the lawgiver of Athens. He set up the city.

• 2:32:26Danny Jones?

  He set up Athens?

• 2:32:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, Athens that we know.

• 2:32:28Danny Jones?

  The first democracy.

• 2:32:29Speaker 02

  Yes, he was the founder. And the story comes from Solon, who sat in a temple in Egypt and was told this by the priests there. Anyway.

• 2:32:39Danny Jones?

  But Plato didn't typically write history stuff. He typically wrote philosophical allegorical stories, right?

• 2:32:47Speaker 02

  There are at least a handful of Platonic dialogues I can think of that involve historical narratives as part of the philosophical arguments. So it's not unique by any means. And, and for example, I think in the Theotitus and the Cradalus, there are accounts of the pre-flood world that match up with the Atlantis story perfectly, where he's discussing other aspects of it. Like, actually, this is, I'll get into this because it's relevant. Plato says that before the rise of Atlantis, the whole earth was governed by the Olympian gods who carved up the planet and ruled different parts of it. Each of them, they had their own realms, like a feudal system. Right?

• 2:33:30Speaker 02

  Zeus was the head honcho, but the different gods each got to have their own territories. And humanity was basically a slave race that served these Olympians.

• 2:33:43Speaker 02

  Remember the myth of Prometheus, right? Prometheus defies the Olympian gods because actually he's the creator of humanity and he did not want his creation to wind up a slave race. And so he steals the fire of scientific knowledge and technological innovation from Olympus.

• 2:34:00Danny Jones?

  To save them.

• 2:34:01Speaker 02

  To empower humanity and give us the wherewithal and the resources to revolt against Olympus, right? Now Prometheus's brother is Atlas and the term Atlantis means realm of Atlas. The kings of Atlantis were called the Atlas. It was a title. And so this is very clearly establishing the connection to the myth of Prometheus. So is the fact that when Zeus decides to wipe out Atlantis to punish the Atlantean rebellion against Olympus, the Noah-type figure who saves as many people as possible and restarts civilization is Deucalion, the son of Prometheus. So the Bible version is completely fucked up.

• 2:34:45Speaker 02

  I mean, what God drowns humanity and then appoints Noah to go save the humanity that he wants to wipe off the face of the earth. It's clearly been altered. The original version of the story is the one that you see like in the Greek texts where Deucalion is a son of Prometheus and they're against Zeus and they don't want him to bring the flood in the first place. And then, once he does, they try to save as much of civilization as possible. And we have historical evidence of that. We have accounts from the Mayans and the ancient Egyptians that say that after the great flood, these wise men came to us. And by the way, they described them as tall, fair-skinned people with beards and, you

• 2:35:29Speaker 02

  know, I mean, native Mayans don't grow beards like that.

• 2:35:31Danny Jones?

  So Deucalion is Noah?

• 2:35:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, but Noah is a messed up version of it. Deucalion was a figure who would be against Yahweh.

• 2:35:39Danny Jones?

  Right, I got it, I got it.

• 2:35:41Speaker 02

  And so, okay. What Plato tells us is that each of these Olympians have their own domain. This is in the Cradles or Theotitus, one of the other dialogues. The Atlantis account is in Timaeus and Critias, mainly Critias. Then in other dialogues like Theotitus and Cradles, he fills out the story where the Olympians are governing the world and one of these domains is the domain of Poseidon. Remember Epstein builds a temple to Poseidon on Little St. James. And Poseidon's descendants wind up interbreeding with normal humans.

• 2:36:18Speaker 02

  Like Poseidon develops a hybrid bloodline where gods have sex with humans. And gods are goddesses and they intermix their genes with normal human genes to create a race of hybrids on this island Poseidea, which becomes Atlantis. And Plato says, what happened was these hybrids, so they're super intelligent, they have half god blood, right? And so they're super intelligent, super strong people. And it occurs to them, why are we worshiping these fucking Olympians? Like, they're not moral. In fact, they're sadistic and tyrannical.

• 2:37:02Speaker 02

  And, you know, they just entertain themselves by cruelly manipulating us, right? Why do we owe them any obedience and servitude? So these hybrids on Poseidea get it into their heads to rebel against the Olympian system. And this is when Poseidea becomes Atlantis and the kings of Poseidea become the Atlas, the Atlas kings.

• 2:37:24Danny Jones?

  This is also similar to the Sumerian text.

• 2:37:26Speaker 02

  Oh, it's the same freaking story, man. I mean, obviously, Enki is the leader of Atlantis. Anyway, the name Atlantis doesn't matter. It's a Greek word. Describes the realm of the one who holds the celestial sphere on his own shoulders. That's what Atlas is. Atlas, the brother of Prometheus, is a Titan who fought a war against the Olympians. And he holds the star globe on his shoulders. Well, that's a symbol of radical independence and sovereignty. It means you are the one holding the world up, not the gods. Okay? So that tells you what the symbol of Atlantis means. Whether the place was actually called that, who knows? Probably not.

• 2:38:11Speaker 02

  Anyway, although, although, and let me mention that this is noteworthy. In the Mayan culture, they call it Atlan.

• 2:38:20Danny Jones?

  Atlan.

• 2:38:21Speaker 02

  Atlan or Tulan. They use both. And we'll come back around to this, but the Germans call it Thul.

• 2:38:31Speaker 02

  And eventually the Nazis, so Thul, Tulan, Thul, you see the connection? You know, Tulan is used as a synonym of Atlan in the Mayan civilization. And Tulan and Thul sound similar. Thula is how it's pronounced in German. Thula, Tulan. So the Nazis in 19, by 1938, figured out that Thul is Atlantis. And in their, in their Germanic myths, Thul was a continent at the polar north of the world. So we have no continent at the North Pole of the world.

• 2:39:14Speaker 02

  But the North and South Pole of the Earth is determined by magnetism, and the magnetic poles flip every however many thousands of years. Edgar Cayce says that the Atlantean civilization went back tens and tens of thousands of years. He has psychic readings, he did, where he talks about what was going on in Atlantis 50,000 years ago. In other words, at the time that that city that Pauline Zelitzky discovered. Edgar Cayce has got psychic readings of what's going on in Atlantis 50,000 B.C. So that means that Atlantis was a thriving civilization at a time when Antarctica was the North Pole of the Earth. That's what's now the South Pole was the magnetic North Pole of the Earth.

• 2:39:59Speaker 02

  So there's your continent at the North.

• 2:40:02Danny Jones?

  50,000 years ago and Antarctica.

• 2:40:04Speaker 02

  Was the North Pole. And therefore, there was a continent at the North Pole.

• 2:40:08Danny Jones?

  This is a fact?

• 2:40:09Speaker 02

  Yes, the magnetic poles shift, I forget what the number is, you can look it up. But it's an interval such that 50,000 years ago would have been before the last reversal, and North would have been South and South would have been North magnetically.

• 2:40:24Speaker 02

  So the Nazis are obsessed with Atlantis, okay? The whole Nazi movement ideologically spins out of something called the Thule Society, where these Thule Society people, barons, aristocrats who are into the occult and who are being financed by America, are looking for Atlantis, the German version. And by 1938, they figured out it was Antarctica. So they fielded the German Antarctic expedition in 1938 and started to explore Antarctica, I think with ultimately the aim of excavating it and colonizing it. And, you know, when Admiral Byrd at the end of World War II, 1946, sent a huge expedition down to Antarctica.

• 2:41:06Danny Jones?

  Operation High Jump.

• 2:41:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, in Operation High Jump, that naval expedition had the shit beaten out of it and had to turn around, turn tail, come back way too early, having lost a lot of assets. And they claimed it on bad weather.

• 2:41:17Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 2:41:18Speaker 02

  Okay? And then on his way back to the United States, I think in Chile, at a port in Chile, Byrd gave statements to the Chilean press to the effect that we need to prepare for a third world war in which aircraft would cross from pole to pole at tremendous speeds. Okay, so.

• 2:41:38Danny Jones?

  Quick, quick little side note.

• 2:41:39Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 2:41:40Danny Jones?

  Do you know what Von Braun was doing in Antarctica in three years before they went to the moon?

• 2:41:47Speaker 02

  Von Braun? You're sure of Von Braun?

• 2:41:50Danny Jones?

  Von Braun, Warner Von Braun.

• 2:41:52Speaker 02

  I wasn't aware of that, but it makes perfect sense to me.

• 2:41:55Danny Jones?

  Three years before, and this is, so this is the argument that the moon landing deniers, one of their biggest arguments, one of the biggest arguments to support that we went to the moon is that we have all those moon rocks. And the people that are skeptics, they say that they got the, Von Braun went to Antarctica in 66.

• 2:42:16Danny Jones?

  Was to get moon rocks from Antarctica. And then there was a recent study that came or a recent article that came out where some, uh, some people on expedition in Antarctica got their hands on giant moon rocks in Antarctica, about the same size as the ones that you can find pictures of that the alleged Apollo astronauts brought back.

• 2:42:36Speaker 02

  Well, Antarctica would be littered with rocks, both from the moon and Mars.

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• 2:43:41Speaker 02

  That makes sense.

• 2:43:42Danny Jones?

  Why? Why is that?

• 2:43:43Speaker 02

  Uh, well, first of all, it's a large landmass, but secondly, the preservation conditions are very good there.

• 2:43:50Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:43:51Speaker 02

  It's the, you know, at the North Pole, we don't have a landmass. I mean, some of Canada is close to the North Pole, but it's an ideal polar preservation conditions of a large landmass, which would keep whatever fell there for a long time. So, you know, now, obviously, I do think we went to the moon. I mean, if I'm telling you that I believe that, I believe whistleblowers that, you know, Lockheed built a flux liner in the 1960s that got to Saturn. Yeah, I think we went to the moon. Do I think the footage they showed us was from the moon? No, I don't think so. I think that was probably shot by Stanley Kubrick.

• 2:44:27Danny Jones?

  Some of the, there's just so much evidence that convinces me that we didn't-

• 2:44:32Speaker 02

  The Apollo program was a huge psy-op and social engineering enterprise. But that doesn't mean Americans, I mean, careful how I say this.

• 2:44:43Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:44:43Speaker 02

  I'm not saying United States, it doesn't mean Americans haven't been to the moon.

• 2:44:49Danny Jones?

  Right, of course.

• 2:44:50Speaker 02

  With other technology.

• 2:44:51Danny Jones?

  Of course. The Apollo program though, I mean,

• 2:44:55Danny Jones?

  one of the weirdest things to me is how those astronauts, their personalities-

• 2:44:58Speaker 02

  They're traumatized.

• 2:44:59Danny Jones?

  They flipped.

• 2:45:00Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

• 2:45:01Danny Jones?

  Neil Armstrong went from like an outgoing life of the party guy to a completely introverted, not talking to anyone, never doing interviews.

• 2:45:10Speaker 02

  They were MKUltra'd.

• 2:45:11Danny Jones?

  That's-

• 2:45:12Speaker 02

  And their lives fell apart. Yeah. Anyway.

• 2:45:17Danny Jones?

  Yeah, anyways.

• 2:45:18Speaker 02

  Man, oh, man. So...

• 2:45:21Speaker 02

  But see, here's the thing. See, it's all that's relevant because these are things that Maxwell and Epstein figured out about how the world actually works.

• 2:45:31Danny Jones?

  Yeah, imagine, imagine too, imagine you're Jeffrey Epstein.

• 2:45:37Danny Jones?

  You have so much goddamn money. You're connected to so many powerful people that run the world. Intelligence agencies, arms traffickers, you know, these giant, uh, Wall Street brokers. And you also have blackmail on world leaders. You have so much goddamn power and you can do anything your, your heart desires. Anything your imagination can conjure up, it can be yours, right? So if you're that person and you have that, whatever that does to your brain, me and you can't even fathom what's going, how you're, you're wired.

• 2:46:17Speaker 02

  I can fathom.

• 2:46:18Danny Jones?

  When you have all that power and all that wealth and you can have anything you want.

• 2:46:22Speaker 02

  But here-

• 2:46:23Danny Jones?

  You would start to want things that are almost unimaginable.

• 2:46:26Speaker 02

  Yes. Now, look, see, here's where I beg to differ with you.

• 2:46:31Speaker 02

  He had so much money and power that he assumed everything should be accessible to him and that he should be able to do anything. And he came up against hard walls and realized over time, fuck, this country, and by extension the world, is run by a mafia set up by Nazis, which I don't have access to. And no matter what I do, they won't deal me in. Okay? That's what's going on here. And that's why he wound up dead and why she's still in prison.

• 2:47:13Danny Jones?

  You think he's really dead?

• 2:47:15Speaker 02

  I do. I do think he's dead. So after Jeffrey Epstein, Ghislaine Maxwell gets involved with this guy Scott Borgerson, who by the way is very tall.

• 2:47:29Danny Jones?

  CIA guy?

• 2:47:30Speaker 02

  Yes. He worked for the CIA and he set up a company, I believe they met at the Council on Foreign Relations, which is not far from Glenn Maxwell's townhouse in Manhattan, around Park Avenue. And this guy, Scott Borgerson, very tall, again Swedish ancestry guy, he set up a company called Cargo Metrics, which he himself described as the NSA of the seas. The NSA of the seas. And what they would do is track all the shipping vessels in the world simultaneously to see who's shipping what where, right?

• 2:48:12Speaker 02

  Global naval intelligence, the NSA of the seas. And this Borgerson starts talking about how when the ice in Antarctica melts, it's going to reveal Atlantis. He starts making these weird remarks about how there's a whole continent to discover and it will be like the rising of Atlantis when the ice in Antarctica melts. I quote him to this effect in the piece.

• 2:48:41Speaker 02

  And

• 2:48:42Danny Jones?

  When, when, what year was this guy?

• 2:48:44Speaker 02

  2010s.

• 2:48:45Danny Jones?

  2010s.

• 2:48:46Speaker 02

  Yeah. So Gillette, this becomes her boyfriend and she eventually marries him shortly before she's arrested. She marries Scott Borgerson, leaves him 20 million dollars or something like that.

• 2:48:55Danny Jones?

  Find a photo of this fella.

• 2:48:57Speaker 02

  He's very tall. And um

• 2:49:01Speaker 02

  there's a photo of, I think, him with his parents and her, four of them in a photograph together. And I think I put it in that, the, the Substack piece also.

• 2:49:10Speaker 02

  So, look at this. Gillette Maxwell spends decades hunting for Atlantis in the Bahamas, because that's where Edgar Cayce said it was. And then lo and behold, she's gets involved with a guy who runs the NSA of the Seas and he's obsessed with Antarctica. Interesting.

• 2:49:33Speaker 02

  Did she finally figure out?

• 2:49:35Danny Jones?

  This dark haired dude?

• 2:49:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's, that's Scott Borgerson. There he is, and before, with, before the beard.

• 2:49:41Danny Jones?

  Not very Nordic looking.

• 2:49:43Speaker 02

  He's Swedish.

• 2:49:44Danny Jones?

  Is he?

• 2:49:44Speaker 02

  By background, I believe so. Borgerson is a

• 2:49:46Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it is, it is a, yeah, it is a Swedish name.

• 2:49:50Speaker 02

  So, not all of them are blonde, you know? Anyway, so, uh, but his parents are, if I'm not mistaken. And see if you can find that photo with his parents and Gillette Maxwell on one side. Is it this one? Yeah. Yeah, so those are his, his parents.

• 2:50:05Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:50:06Speaker 02

  Together with her.

• 2:50:07Danny Jones?

  Yeah, he's a big dude.

• 2:50:08Speaker 02

  Yeah. So...

• 2:50:15Danny Jones?

  What's this guy doing now?

• 2:50:17Speaker 02

  Good question. He dumped her. While she was in prison. He got in, he got, he got into an affair with his yoga teacher and left Gillette Maxwell for the yoga teacher. After taking 20 million of Gillette Maxwell's money that she gave him for safekeeping. Yeah.

• 2:50:34Danny Jones?

  Yikes.

• 2:50:35Speaker 02

  Anyway, so do you really think that it's a coincidence that she gets involved with this guy? After, you know, she's not involved with Epstein anymore, right? And this guy is obsessed with Antarctica. And the Nazis eventually figured out that Atlantis was based in Antarctica. So I suspect that she made the same discovery late in her quest for Atlantis. That what was in the Bahamas that Edgar Cayce was describing in the Caribbean were like colonies of Atlantis. But the core was in Antarctica. And so she was going to start hunting for it in the same place the Nazis were hunting for it. Okay. Now, at the same time as she gets involved with Borgerson,

• 2:51:20Speaker 02

  she creates this organization, Terramar. And essentially, okay, so let's present what Terramar was billed as, what it was, you know, presented to the public as versus like what I think it actually was.

• 2:51:34Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:51:36Speaker 02

  The public face messaging for this organization was that,

• 2:51:43Speaker 02

  "Well, you know, there's a certain vast percentage of the world's oceans that are not under the control of any nation state. I believe it's something like 40% of the surface of the earth. So like the majority of the surface of the earth is ocean, like 70%. And of that 70, you know, and of that, like 40% of the surface of the earth is parts of the ocean that are not governed by any nation state. They're international waters.

• 2:52:09Speaker 02

  And there are certain treaties that have to do with what goes on in international waters, but they're very weak treaties and they're not well enforced at all.

• 2:52:20Danny Jones?

  This is why we can have, Russia can have nuclear submarines scooting around right off the coast of Florida.

• 2:52:25Speaker 02

  Up to 12 miles.

• 2:52:26Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:52:27Speaker 02

  Until they're in violation of our, you know. And that 12 miles is very relevant because there's also a phenomenon known as seasteading, which is based off the old American term homestead, like a homestead out west in the days of conquering the western frontier. So these guys, around the same time, 2010s, started to develop the idea of a seastead. One of them's a friend of mine, a guy called Dario Mutabia, who initially interested Peter Thiel in investing in his blue seed seasteading project. He was going to build a seastead off of Silicon Valley.

• 2:53:06Danny Jones?

  They want to basically have like their own autonomous zone where they can be tax-free or something like that?

• 2:53:11Speaker 02

  Well, certain kinds of research could take place there that would not be under national restrictions. And so it could help the economy of the United States in ways that are not under the legal jurisdiction of the United States, certainly in certain technological innovation areas. So one of the seasteds that became particularly infamous is this place, Sealand, which is around, it's off the coast of Britain. And the whole story of this Sealand seastead is detailed in a series of articles that Ian Urbina wrote and published in the New York Times, which subsequently became the basis

• 2:53:54Speaker 02

  of a book called Outlaw Ocean, The Outlaw Ocean, which is where I got the title for my piece from, Ocean Outlaw, referring to Ghislaine Maxwell. Because Ghislaine Maxwell became obsessed with this book. Well, at that point, it was still a series of articles. And she went and interviewed Ian Urbina, you know, of the New York Times, as a representative of Terramar. She would do these Terramar podcast sort of interviews. And one of them was with this author of The Outlaw Ocean. And this guy basically described to her how he embedded himself in a pirate ship crew and he basically learned how piratical activities in international waters work.

• 2:54:40Speaker 02

  But a large part of Ian Urbina's book on the outlaw ocean concerns this seastead called Sealand off the coast of Britain. At one point, Google came to Sealand and they wanted to buy space in Sealand to build servers because apparently you can use seawater to cool servers much more efficiently than air conditioning. So Google-

• 2:55:02Danny Jones?

  And your servers are in international waters.

• 2:55:04Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:55:05Danny Jones?

  Who knows what that even means?

• 2:55:06Speaker 02

  This guy Bates, like the Bates Motel from Psycho, right? This guy Bates ran Sealand, Bates family, they turned down Google. So who are these people? They get to turn down Google. And it became a huge scandal because they were harboring a German coup plotter, a German who was plotting a coup d'etat in Germany, was being protected at the Sealand seastead. And Germany had to recognize the sovereignty of Sealand just to like get this guy extradited and prosecuted.

• 2:55:42Danny Jones?

  Oh, this is it?

• 2:55:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:55:45Danny Jones?

  That's kind of small.

• 2:55:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's very rinky dink. And they were gonna like put servers in those-

• 2:55:50Danny Jones?

  It's like the size of a football field.

• 2:55:51Speaker 02

  Those drums have facilities inside them. So like it goes down-

• 2:55:54Danny Jones?

  Oh, really?

• 2:55:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, that's like a bond, you know, like, you know-

• 2:55:58Danny Jones?

  Does it go underwater?

• 2:55:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, it goes underwater. So it's moored to the seabed. That's what they are. They're moored to the seabed.

• 2:56:04Danny Jones?

  Whoa.

• 2:56:07Speaker 02

  So, so get this. Because of the coup plot in Germany that was fielded from out of Sealand, they started investigating these people and they found out that the Sealand seastead was doing tens of millions of dollars of arms trafficking to Africa. They were selling tanks, helicopters, everything you can imagine to Sudan and other countries. And they were doing it using Sealand passports. They had their own passport-

• 2:56:35Danny Jones?

  Oh, my God.

• 2:56:36Speaker 02

  And their own currency.

• 2:56:37Danny Jones?

  They had their own crypto?

• 2:56:38Speaker 02

  They had their own currency and they had their own passport. So now, why is Ghislaine Maxwell so interested in these kinds of stories and interviewing the guy who dug this stuff up, right?

• 2:56:52Speaker 02

  She sets up this organization, Terramar, and the public messaging is, "Look, international waters are so badly regulated that coral reefs are in danger, and various species of fish are being overfished, and, you know, like, you know, being mistreated. For example, to make shark fin soup, you know, they cut the fins off sharks and then just leave the mutilated sharks to die in the water. And, look, Ghislaine Maxwell wanted to be a marine biologist. So I don't doubt the sincerity that she cared about, like, species of aquatic creatures and even coral reef health, which sustains the wildlife,

• 2:57:32Speaker 02

  oceanic wildlife. I'm not saying it was insincere, entirely fabricated. But there's no way in hell that that was the primary objective of Terramar. If you look at the legal lobbying that Terramar was conducting, Ghislaine Maxwell spoke at the United Nations nine times.

• 2:57:52Danny Jones?

  That's crazy.

• 2:57:54Speaker 02

  And when she spoke at the UN, she would sit next to the representative from Palau. Let me give you the backstory there. Palau is an island chain. The total landmass of Palau, if you bunched all the islands together, would be the size of Manhattan, so very small. But because Palau's island chain is so stretched out, the amount of sovereign water that it controls is the size of the state of Texas. So if you wanted to build a bunch of seasteads within the waters of Palau, you've got as much area to work with as Texas, okay? And so she sits next to the representative from Palau, and she's lobbying for a bunch

• 2:58:34Speaker 02

  of legislation involving governance of the international waters. And you have to really analyze it, like, what is, you know, what is the end goal of this kind of legislation? And it appears to be this: Did she want it to keep as much of the international waters as free of regulation as possible?

• 2:58:58Speaker 02

  While claiming that it was about protecting wildlife and so forth. And she did this whole thing with Terramore where she said, look, you can become a citizen of Terramore. We're going to issue you a passport and you're going to own like a small part of the seabed and the ocean for the sake of protecting it. Right? So they had these Terramore passports and all this, and it was used as a fundraising mechanism. But I think what was really going on here is her continuing this piratical mode of thinking that clearly Epstein was also,

• 2:59:44Speaker 02

  you know, motivated by, and it was also his MO.

• 2:59:47Danny Jones?

  Couldn't this have a lot to do with tax? Like a tax haven for companies based there?

• 2:59:51Speaker 02

  You have to keep the wider perspective here of what these people were interested in. Of course, it would, you know, you, you, you know, you kill a lot of birds with one stone.

• 3:00:01Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:00:02Speaker 02

  Right? I mean, Jeffrey Epstein's expertise was tax evasion. That's what he would.

• 3:00:06Danny Jones?

  Allegedly.

• 3:00:06Speaker 02

  He would, yeah, go help like all these billionaires, hide their money in a way that's most effective to, you know, avoid taxes. So of course, I mean, you know, among other things, probably there was an angle there involving tax evasion. But what's really going on here is that, you know, this woman is interested in developing a stateless piratical organization. And again, it's an attempt to replicate what The Breakaway has done. They've already done it. So for example, in my book, Closer Encounters, I go into at length the facilities the United States built in the continental shelves

• 3:00:51Speaker 02

  and inside mountain ranges at the bottom of the ocean. We actually, starting in the 1970s, actually in the late 60s, began building city-sized submarine facilities inside mountain ranges underwater, putatively with the idea that if there's a nuclear war with the Soviets, we can, you know, survive down there and continue to fight.

• 3:01:16Speaker 02

  So the black-

• 3:01:18Danny Jones?

  How do you know this?

• 3:01:19Speaker 02

  Oh, I mean, there are, you know, the project papers for that have all been leaked. They're all widely available. And when you look at the scale of these engineering projects, it's fucking insane. I document this all in my book, Closer Encounters. I go on at length of it for probably too long about-

• 3:01:35Danny Jones?

  These are declassified documents?

• 3:01:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 3:01:39Speaker 02

  Look up the Richard Soder, Richard Soder, underwater and underground bases. And this guy has gone-

• 3:01:48Danny Jones?

  I've heard of this guy, yeah. This is, Catherine Fitz talks about this guy.

• 3:01:51Speaker 02

  Yeah. Oh, yeah. She, she knows, you know, very well about these things. She's researched it for a very long time.

• 3:01:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:01:58Danny Jones?

  Yeah, obviously, I've heard this, yeah.

• 3:02:00Speaker 02

  There's one called underwater bases, and there's another, this one here, underwater and underground bases.

• 3:02:04Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:02:04Speaker 02

  Anyway, it's extensively documented with the actual project papers, and it's insane.

• 3:02:08Danny Jones?

  And this is supposed to be one of the places that all that missing money went from the Pentagon?

• 3:02:15Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, trillions. So, these are the places from out of which, you know, the UFO projects are being fielded.

• 3:02:25Speaker 02

  Not just Area 51, but also these underwater facilities. Remember, most of the UFOs are seen entering and exiting bodies of water.

• 3:02:31Danny Jones?

  You think they're-

• 3:02:32Speaker 02

  They're transmedium vehicles. So not everything that's entering and exiting the water is alien or whatever.

• 3:02:38Danny Jones?

  So they have like an S4 underwater?

• 3:02:40Speaker 02

  Inside a mountain range at the bottom of the ocean.

• 3:02:42Danny Jones?

  And the ships can enter and exit like, they have like a garage that they can exit that's underwater?

• 3:02:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, and they have one under Catalina Island, too.

• 3:02:54Speaker 02

  So-

• 3:02:54Danny Jones?

  I'd buy that.

• 3:02:57Speaker 02

  If Ghislaine Maxwell, or let's say Jeffrey Epstein, had access to this kind of a facility-

• 3:03:02Danny Jones?

  Oh my God, dude, look at this.

• 3:03:04Speaker 03

  It's concept art.

• 3:03:05Speaker 02

  And now this is the, you know, version 1.0, from the late 60s, early 70s. Imagine what they have now.

• 3:03:13Danny Jones?

  My God.

• 3:03:15Speaker 02

  My point is, you see, if Epstein and Maxwell had access to this kind of stuff, they wouldn't be running the relatively ghetto makeshift operations that they are to replicate it on a small scale.

• 3:03:32Speaker 02

  They were developing their own breakaway.

• 3:03:34Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 3:03:35Speaker 02

  That's what they're trying to do. To gain some kind of a footing vis a vis an essentially Nazi fascist power structure. That's the underbelly of America.

• 3:03:50Danny Jones?

  That's a wild take, Giorgio.

• 3:03:53Speaker 02

  That's what I'm here for.

• 3:03:53Danny Jones?

  Yeah, that's right.

• 3:03:54Speaker 02

  I'll give you the take that nobody else can.

• 3:03:56Danny Jones?

  Sure are. Good Lord. Yeah. Uh, what do you make of, of Ghisl, of Ghislaine's, um, her testimony recently? When she, uh, they, they moved to that prison in Texas and, um, they interviewed her. Uh, some guy went and interviewed her and she basically said, no, Trump's clean as a whistle. Never saw Trump doing anything bad. And then these new emails came out and there's that email that says, uh, he's emailing Ghislaine. And Jeffrey says, Trump is the dog that hasn't barked. And she responds, I've been thinking about that a lot lately. What do you make of that?

• 3:04:32Speaker 02

  Obviously she wants a pardon.

• 3:04:36Speaker 02

  Obviously President Trump is in a position to give her a pardon. Because they were friends. They're in many photos together. And, uh, if you remember when Trump was confronted about Epstein back in the day, his immediate response, which let's just say we know now is not truthful, is that, oh, he was a scumbag. You know, I wasn't very close to him, threw him out of my club, whatever. Versus when they asked him about Glenn Maxwell, he said, I wish her well.

• 3:05:04Danny Jones?

  What do you think that means though? He's the dog that hasn't barked.

• 3:05:08Speaker 02

  Because he's in the Epstein files.

• 3:05:12Speaker 02

  Obviously. I mean, he was Jeffrey Epstein's best friend. They were best friends.

• 3:05:18Danny Jones?

  According to Michael Wolff for 10 years.

• 3:05:19Speaker 02

  According to Jeffrey Epstein.

• 3:05:20Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:05:21Speaker 02

  He, he, Epstein is recorded in interviews saying that I was his best friend. They did everything together. Okay, everything. So.

• 3:05:32Danny Jones?

  Where do you think the hard drives are with all the security camera footage that the FBI took out of the Manhattan house, the Manhattan penthouse? There was DVDs they collected with like names of like kinky shit on there.

• 3:05:43Speaker 02

  It's a good question. Not in Israel.

• 3:05:46Danny Jones?

  No?

• 3:05:47Speaker 02

  No. No, I don't think so.

• 3:05:49Danny Jones?

  You think Israel got that shit out before the FBI got there?

• 3:05:52Speaker 02

  I don't think Israel did, no.

• 3:05:53Danny Jones?

  No?

• 3:05:54Speaker 02

  No. I think that whoever would have been most threatened by Jeffrey Epstein did. I think that whoever killed Jeffrey Epstein in prison is who got that information out of that place.

• 3:06:04Danny Jones?

  Well, that was under the Trump administration. He died.

• 3:06:07Speaker 02

  Indeed, it was. So, look, she wants to get out of prison.

• 3:06:12Danny Jones?

  You think Trump killed him?

• 3:06:14Speaker 02

  Maxwell wants a pardon, right? She wants to get out of prison and Trump is in a position to do that. And in fact, I would be surprised if he doesn't because, see, the thing is, clearly she knows some things. Now, she can't directly contradict her testimony, which has been made under oath, right? She's offered sworn testimony. She would perjure herself if she now contradicts that and says, oh, Trump this and Trump that and I was witness to, okay. So that's not going to happen. But, you know, information's been leaked through her family. Like the thing about the birthday book.

• 3:06:56Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah.

• 3:06:57Speaker 02

  Was leaked through Maxwell's family.

• 3:06:59Danny Jones?

  Oh, really?

• 3:07:00Speaker 02

  So she's this, well, yeah. So, so I think that he's in a place where probably he's going to have to offer her a pardon and probably will never hear a mean word about him from Glenn Maxwell for the rest of her life, even if she's living in Russia. You know, she's learning Russian in prison.

• 3:07:17Danny Jones?

  Is she really?

• 3:07:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:07:19Danny Jones?

  I didn't, how did you know that?

• 3:07:21Speaker 02

  Oh, it's been news stories. The people in prison are watching her like ferociously like devour the Russian language.

• 3:07:27Danny Jones?

  Oh, my God.

• 3:07:28Speaker 02

  Right? Well, I mean, it's not entirely crazy either because you see, her father worked for the KGB. He was a triple agent. Robert Maxwell was recruited by MI6 when he finally made his way across Europe at the end of World War II, wound up in Britain, recruited by MI6 then. In the 1970s, he was recruited by Mossad. He wasn't very big on Israel, although he was Jewish by ancestry. He wanted to fit into European high society, and he wasn't Jewish religiously. And he wanted to fit into Jewish, I mean, European high society. So he actually was kind of alienated from Israel and his Jewish heritage.

• 3:08:07Speaker 02

  And they worked on him in the 1970s to get him interested in Israel and succeeded in recruiting him to do work, at least with the Mossad.

• 3:08:16Danny Jones?

  And you think it was a special ops submarine team that went on his boat and whacked him?

• 3:08:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'll tell you exactly how I think he was killed. Okay, but the KGB thing is important here, because after he was, actually, I think before he was recruited by Mossad, he was recruited by the KGB. And I think this had to do with Pergamon Press, that, you see, they were handling scientific and technical papers from both sides of the Cold War. The other great producers of scientific research were the Soviets. They were doing amazing scientific research. So there were a lot of scientific journal publications coming into Pergamon from behind the Iron Curtain. So Maxwell was in a position, running Pergamon, to be involved with high-level Soviets who are doing classified scientific research. And that's the angle through which I think they recruited him, the KGB.

• 3:09:06Speaker 02

  And so he's a double agent of MI6 and KGB, okay, during the Cold War. Why does Mossad want this guy? Because he's a double agent of MI6 and the KGB. So he can report to Israel about what's going on on both sides of the Cold War. His position as a double agent means that the Israelis are getting intelligence and also potential manipulation leverage on both sides in the Cold War. But the Cold War ended when? 1991. When did Robert Maxwell drown? 1991. What happened right before Robert Maxwell drowned? His businesses went bankrupt and it was revealed that he had committed pension fraud,

• 3:09:47Speaker 02

  where he was stealing the pensions of the employees to do whatever with.

• 3:09:52Danny Jones?

  Because the money dried up.

• 3:09:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, because the money dried up. So Mossad was funding Maxwell's control, particularly of his media empire, of the newspapers and, you know, his media assets. And so as soon, so as soon as the Cold War ended and the Israelis said to themselves, "What do we need this guy anymore for?" I mean, he was our double agent who was, you know, providing us with Cold War intelligence from both sides of the Iron Curtain. "There's no more Soviet Union anymore. There's no more KGB. What use is he to us?" So they cut his funding and the businesses were being lubricated by that funding, right?

• 3:10:30Speaker 02

  So, and then Maxwell, egomaniac that he is, starts threatening the Israelis. That "If you don't, you know, I run these newspapers and if you don't keep sending me money, I'm gonna expose this and I'm gonna expose that and like, you're gonna be fucked." Well, that's when they send the submarine team for you, you know, while you're taking a piss off the side of the boat in the middle of the night, right? So, which he was known to do. Uh, anyway, that's what I think happened with Robert. Now, you know what's really fucked up about that is that people who have really, you know, delved into, into that angle of the story believe that the person who ordered

• 3:11:13Speaker 02

  Jeffrey Epstein's assassination was Ehud Barak, former military intelligence head in Israel.

• 3:11:21Danny Jones?

  Visited Jeffrey all the time in the Manhattan.

• 3:11:23Speaker 02

  His closest person in the Israeli power structure to Jeffrey Epstein was Ehud Barak, as the emails show. And by the way, one of the other things those emails show, go through them carefully, is that people have said that Ehud Barak was Jeffrey Epstein's handler. Absolutely not. The emails show very clearly Epstein is the dominant one in the relationship. Epstein is the dominant one. And Barak is looking up to Epstein and looking for help from Epstein. Okay. A man who was head of Israeli military intelligence and who went on to become prime minister of Israel. In that correspondence is, you know, you gotta have half a brain to know how to read, you know, and see the style of people's communication with one another.

• 3:12:06Speaker 02

  You can see that Epstein is the dominant one in the relationship. He's definitely not being handled by Barak. He helped him out a lot. So, but here's the fucked up thing. Is that Ehud Barak appears to have been the person who ordered Robert Maxwell's assassination. And then Ehud Barak winds up working so closely with Jeffrey Epstein. And Ghislaine Maxwell is a significant woman, the significant woman in Epstein's life.

• 3:12:34Speaker 02

  You see? So she's having to, and she herself has said Ehud Barak was in the house all the time. She's having to deal with potentially her father's killer on a regular basis.

• 3:12:49Danny Jones?

  And she knows that he killed her, killed him.

• 3:12:53Speaker 02

  I think that if you look at, you know, her demeanor at the funeral for Robert Maxwell. He had a state funeral held in Israel. And guess who was present giving honors to Robert Maxwell saying, "He has done things for the state of Israel that no one will ever know." Ehud Barak. Okay. So they murdered him and then they gave him a state funeral, saying, "Thank you very much, Agent Maxwell, like, well done, but you know, you understand we had to take you out because you're getting arrogant and, you know, threatening us and shit and you can't do that." So, but when you look at Ghislaine Maxwell's body language at that funeral, it says to me, she's a trapped woman, trapped.

• 3:13:33Speaker 02

  Because remember, her brothers were prosecuted after the scandal over his media companies. And because they were on paper, they were the ones who were still controlling the Maxwell media empire, right?

• 3:13:47Speaker 02

  So they had to answer for the father's pension fraud after he was killed. Okay. So they lost their money. So this is a girl who grew up like in a lavish environment, you know, hobnobbing with British royalty in a mansion with a father who at least was trying to be accepted by British high society. And then basically the family is financially decimated after this scandal. Well, what I argue in the piece that I wrote is that there's evidence suggesting that, and this is mostly, I think, coming from Ari Ben Menasha, who had worked for the Mossad and worked with Epstein and company,

• 3:14:27Speaker 02

  that Robert Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein would travel to Israel together in the mid to late 80s. And you know, what did Epstein do? He would handle people's money. He would hide, he would squirrel away people's money in protected spheres. I think what happened was Robert Maxwell gave Jeffrey Epstein a certain amount of his wealth to protect somewhere. And after he was killed and the family fortune was decimated, the only person who knew this was Ghislaine Maxwell. The brothers didn't know.

• 3:15:03Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:15:03Speaker 02

  Because she was daddy's favorite girl. He named his yacht after her. The yacht where that he was killed on is called the Lady Ghislaine. And I think that Maxwell, being the super spy intelligence guy that he was, knew that the person who had the big picture view of all the projects he was involved with should not be the person who on paper is legally answerable for his corporate activities.

• 3:15:27Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:15:27Speaker 02

  So the brothers are the front men. And the initiate who really was read in on everything was Ghislaine, his daughter. And so she knew where the money was when she lost everything. It was with Jeffrey Epstein in New York. So she moves to New York and starts developing this rapport with the guy who I think hid a portion of her father's wealth.

• 3:15:49Danny Jones?

  And that's right when Jeffrey Epstein got all that money. Like he went from being moderately rich to insanely fucking rich, right? That in that dirt, that time period.

• 3:15:58Speaker 02

  Hidden money from Robert Maxwell.

• 3:16:04Danny Jones?

  Insanity, man. Complete insanity. I wanted to pivot a little bit to off of this Epstein stuff. By the way, I never got to say it. I kind of missed my window. But the funny, the great quote from your article about Antarctica, you said in there that 50 degrees, what was it? It was 40 degrees south latitude. There is no law. 50 degrees south latitude, there is no God. Which is a great quote. I love that.

• 3:16:35Speaker 02

  I would actually like to go somewhere. There's one other place we can go with that.

• 3:16:38Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 3:16:38Speaker 02

  That is the most profound angle of this whole conversation.

• 3:16:43Danny Jones?

  Uh huh.

• 3:16:44Speaker 02

  And the most deeply disturbing. And it has to do with the Atlantean mentality. Okay. So, as I said, I like to focus on the hardest empirical evidence that I can, you know, get my hands on in terms of making a case for Atlantis. But the Edgar Cayce stuff is also worth looking at. And certainly Ghislaine Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein were looking at it because otherwise they wouldn't have been looking for Atlantis in the Bahamas. And they were also into the occult. Jeffrey Epstein used to threaten journalists who were finding out too much about what he was doing.

• 3:17:20Danny Jones?

  Vanity Fair.

• 3:17:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, he was gonna put a voodoo hex on them and stuff. So he was into the occult for sure. And her favorite holiday is Halloween. And, you know, she's afraid of ghosts and stuff. And we talked about this. So they definitely believe in the paranormal. And they were reading Edgar Cayce. And Edgar Cayce says that, okay, very long story, very short, you know, read the whole of it in my, well, actually, there's a second Substack piece I came out with more recently called The Rebels of Atlantis, The Rebels of Atlantis. And I get into this specifically there. But it's connected to the Maxwell piece. Cayce says that.

• 3:18:04Speaker 02

  There was a group in Atlantis called Belial. And this group are the hybrids that started questioning why they were worshiping the gods. If the gods are like, from their perspective, like cruel and sadistic and so forth. And now here, these hybrids are like half-god themselves, right? They don't lack much in intelligence and beauty and power compared to the gods. And there's this mystery school system that's set up. Dark Journalist also talks about this. I have a diametrically opposed interpretation to him here.

• 3:18:45Speaker 02

  There's this mystery school system that's set up where only authorized channels and mediums are allowed to communicate with the gods, and they get directives from the gods and the rest of the population has to obey them. They're effectively what in the Hindu religion they call Brahmins, like a priestly caste, of so-called initiates into the mysteries. And they're effectively managing a control system where humans are subjugated to these Olympians. But this group of rebels arises, who call themselves, according to Casey, call themselves Belial. Well, that's an interesting word. People assume these days that it's the name of a demon. It's been subsequently associated with the name of a particular demon, sometimes even

• 3:19:30Speaker 02

  with the devil himself. But actually, it's a Hebrew word that has three possible meanings, and people debate over which of them it is. I think it's all three of them, and that the semantic ambiguity of this word is being used to signify something. Belial could be Belial, it could be Belial, or Belial. And these three meanings are...

• 3:20:01Speaker 02

  Lawless, unbound, and godless. So unbound in the sense of being unyoked. You know, the word yoga originally refers to being yoked, to being fastened or chained to something, to being connected to something. And so, you know, we in the West, in the wonderful way that we do, we uproot these cultural practices and use them for purely practical purposes, which I think is fantastic and a great strength of Western civilization. The irreverence with which we go and appropriate all the best things from other cultures and cut their roots if necessary and amalgamate them in a way that's more constructive and creative. So we did that with yoga, like, so that now it's an exercise practice and maybe a meditative practice.

• 3:20:46Speaker 02

  But originally yoga meant to submit your ass to the devas. It meant to yoke yourself. By practicing yoga, you're yoking yourself to the devas, being bound by them. So Belial means unyoked or unbound in that sense. Also lawless in the sense of lacking a single criterion of judgment. In other words, without a universal code of morality, without a universally applicable principle or criterion. That's one interpretation of the meaning of the word. In other words, moral relativism. There's no objective morality. Moral codes are relative between cultures.

• 3:21:30Speaker 02

  They change in different historical epochs. And then the final meaning, when it's, if it's belly ell, means without God, godless. So it's very interesting that Casey chooses this term to refer to these people, the group of Belial. He calls them the sons of Belial, but it's better to call them the Belial group because it included women. They're the rebels in Atlantis. Godless, lawless, unbound. And they are the ones who eventually decide to go around the whole planet out from the center of Atlantis.

• 3:22:14Speaker 02

  And as Plato puts it, go to war with other cultures that are worshiping the Olympians. To disrupt the control system on a global scale. At which point Zeus decides to flood the planet and destroy the civilization. Right? Now Edgar Cayce and also Rudolf Steiner, who writes about this too. Rudolf Steiner was another quasi philosophical medium, theosophist, who wrote about Atlantis. And he has a different name for this group. He calls them the Ahromonic people in Atlantis. Using the ancient Iranian term Ahriman, which is like the the evil figure in Zoroastrian cosmology.

• 3:22:58Speaker 02

  I have a big bone to pick with Steiner over that. I think he doesn't understand Zoroastrianism. And you know, you can read my piece on, you know, the rebels of Atlantis to see why I think he's misappropriating the term Ahriman to describe these people. Because you see, Steiner was basically a gnostic. He was a dualist. He believed that there are two polarities that make up our world. A material polarity, which he put the name Ahriman on, and a transcendental luminous polarity, which he called Lucifer. And he said that he thought, you know, people were mixing up Ahriman and Lucifer in the popular conception of the devil.

• 3:23:43Speaker 02

  And that they're really two opposed polarities. And the mediator between these polarities is Christ. So Steiner broke with theosophy. He broke with Helena Blavatsky because he believed in adapting Christianity into a new form. He still considered himself a Christian, albeit a gnostic Christian. So Steiner creates this duality, which I think is an artificial duality, a projected duality, between the purely materialistic and the purely transcendental. And he says, "Look, both of these are bad for humans. You shouldn't be purely materialistic and like pulled down into base, the realm of base desires

• 3:24:23Speaker 02

  and, you know, godless, cutthroat, you know, behavior and lustful, power-seeking and so on and so forth. But you also shouldn't get transcendently lost in all kinds of abstractions either. Like, if you fly too high toward Lucifer, you're also gonna get burned. It's not like something for humans to do. Like, that's what angels do. It's not our thing. We need to accept Christ as the grounding earthly mediator of these two forces." So Steiner's interpretation of Atlantis is that the rebels were Ahrimonic. And this lines up with Edgar Cayce, but you know Edgar Cayce was a Christian, like,

• 3:25:05Speaker 02

  schoolboy guy, like, he was like, even though he had all these psychic powers, he was inculcated with a traditional evangelical, southern, Christian belief system. So he's also projecting his own belief system onto his psychic readings of Atlantis, and he calls these people Belile, right? Godless, lawless, unbound, in a satanic way. Now, I think this is completely misguided, both on the part of Cayce and on the part of Steiner, that, for reasons I, you know, expand upon in my entire philosophical corpus, I mean, this goes to the heart of my project as a philosopher, I have deconstructed metaphysical dualism. This idea that, you know, there's a distinction between the purely material and the purely

• 3:25:50Speaker 02

  spiritual. I think this is a human projection and an artificial construct. And that the actual sort of quantum computational world that we're living in is spectral, that both matter and what we consider spirit are abstractions from out of that.

• 3:26:06Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:26:06Speaker 02

  From out of that primordial flux of energy and information.

• 3:26:09Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:26:10Speaker 02

  And, see, I think that the Belile group figured this out, that there were, the reason they were godless...

• 3:26:19Speaker 02

  And lawless and unbound, lawless in the sense that they didn't believe in any universal law. And they weren't bound to anything that claimed to be enforcing universal law. Is because they understood the spectral nature of the world. And for Steiner to say that the rebels in Atlantis are Ahrimanic is perverse. Because his own account of them, and Edgar Cayce's parallel account, suggests that their great crime was to use occult abilities on their own initiative and for their own purposes. They're described as black magicians, who have a science that's like magic.

• 3:27:02Speaker 02

  And, including, you know, massive use of telepathy, ESP, clairvoyance, telekinesis. So how are you describing a group of people that are master occultists as materialists? That doesn't make any sense. It shows you the problem with Steiner's schema, with his construct in the first place. It's not materialism. It's a godless understanding and application of the occult. It's to understand and apply occult power for purely human and individualistic purposes. Without recognizing any hierarchy that you should be serving and hoping to initiate

• 3:27:41Speaker 02

  you into a proper, divinely legitimated, you know, use of miraculous graces from God. Right? So, that's my interpretation of, you know, Edgar Cayce's reading of Atlantis, and Steiner's reading of Atlantis, and why I think that they filtered it through their own Christian belief system, or Gnostic perspective, to demonize a group of people who actually were rebels against the tyrannical power structure.

• 3:28:17Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:28:17Speaker 02

  Now, you can see how this is relevant to the Epstein conversation. And by the way, oh, sorry, I'm horrible at this. I always forget. Self-promotion is not my thing. This book.

• 3:28:27Danny Jones?

  The Nosis.

• 3:28:29Speaker 02

  The Nosis, my latest book. A study, comprehensive study of death, the afterlife and rebirth. Why am I finally remembering to plug the book now?

• 3:28:42Speaker 02

  You read this, by the end of this book, you're going to understand how the Belial Group thought. Because what I do is essentially go through more than a century of parapsychological research on near-death experiences, out-of-body experiences, reincarnation and possession, and the question of the distinction between reincarnation and possession, and various techniques to successfully navigate the transition between death and reincarnation. And by the end of the book, what you're presented with is a working model of how to control the destiny of your own soul in a way that gets past the control system managed by God and the angels.

• 3:29:25Speaker 02

  So effectively, what I argue in this book, and I'm expanding upon an argument that I first made in Closer Encounters, but it's like a book-length treatment of that aspect of it, is that the control system that we're inside of is not just physical in the conventional sense, it's a spiritual or psychotronic control system. So that the people, you know, not the Nazis, the people behind the UFO phenomenon who aren't Nazis, the aliens so-called, right, the various entities that pilot these craft that Tucker Carlson wants to say are either demons or angels. I mean, this is what all these people from the Trump administration are saying these days.

• 3:30:05Danny Jones?

  It's demonic.

• 3:30:06Speaker 02

  Your guest here, Anna Paulina Luna, subscribes to the same belief system, that either they're angels or they're demons. Well, you know, in a manner of speaking, yes, in the sense that in the Bible, what are described as angels or messengers from God, or demons, meaning fallen angels, are in fact these same entities. But that's because those are retarded, primitive people who could only understand these entities in the context of this regressive and simplistic belief system that was being used to control them.

• 3:30:37Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:30:37Speaker 02

  Okay, what we're actually dealing with are the managers of a control system, those are the angels, who supposedly work for this head honcho god.

• 3:30:45Danny Jones?

  I mean, these are ancient humans, basically.

• 3:30:48Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 3:30:48Danny Jones?

  That came from Mars.

• 3:30:49Speaker 02

  Yes. We went into that. People should watch our earlier show.

• 3:30:52Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 3:30:53Speaker 02

  Go into that.

• 3:30:53Danny Jones?

  Right, right, right. We talked about the ancient, the remote viewing Mars and the ancient civilization that had to escape Mars. There was a nuclear war. We had the Xenon 229, whatever it is.

• 3:31:02Speaker 02

  So the fallen angels are rebels against that system. And when you, you know, Annapolis Luna likes to bring up the Book of Enoch all the time.

• 3:31:10Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 3:31:10Speaker 02

  When you look at the Book of Enoch, which is, it's an expansion on Genesis.

• 3:31:16Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:31:16Speaker 02

  On Genesis 6 particularly. And I do believe it was excised from the Bible. And when you compare the Book of Enoch to Plato's account of Atlantis, it's the same damn thing. Exactly the same thing. It's a story of a group of people who are hybrids between rebel gods or rebel angels and mortals. They, there are people who broke away from the control system. They were part of the control system. They revolted. They had some kind of coup. They interbred with human women, sired a race of hybrids who are called heroes in Greek. That's what the word hero in Greek means originally, herios. It's also, by the way, the origin of the word

• 3:31:57Speaker 02

  Aryan. The word Aryan in its original proto Indo-European form is herios, the same word that we get hero from in Greek. And it, it has that eros in it refers to the sex between humans and gods. So the heroes, the oldest heroes were believed to be hybrids in Greek mythology. And so basically, it's the same story and it's the story of a rebellion against the control system. By the end of Thanosis, I reconstruct for you what that kind of godless approach to understanding the human soul and effectively navigating death and rebirth

• 3:32:42Speaker 02

  would look like today in terms of various techniques that have been developed by Robert Monroe, by Soviet scientists, going through over a century of parapsychological research to effectively show you how to beat the game, how to hack the system. And get around the angelic control after death and be able to guide yourself to, you know, a deliberately planned, more optimal condition for rebirth.

• 3:33:11Danny Jones?

  What do you think happens when we die?

• 3:33:14Speaker 02

  Usually, people go out of their bodies, so they see their corpse. And then, they start to get pulled in by this white light that they see somewhere around them. Okay? And they describe this as having like a magnetic power. So it's very hard to get away from this thing. Like, you try to, you know, after you die, let's say you want to see your funeral. So you go to your funeral, you see your funeral. You see people crying over your grave. Or, maybe you don't care so much about your funeral because you had very few friends, hardly anybody's gonna show up there. And really, you're worried about your aunt, who was the closest person to you in your life. And next thing you know, you're in her apartment, watching her bawl her eyes out over you. So you go to various places that your consciousness is directed, without even thinking, subconsciously. Right? Like, uh...

• 3:33:59Danny Jones?

  And you can see...

• 3:34:00Speaker 02

  An out-of-body experience, astral projection.

• 3:34:02Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:34:04Speaker 02

  And I think it's, for most people, largely driven by the subconscious. You don't have a lot of control over it. It's driven by your deep fears and concerns. But then this white light keeps showing up, and trying to pull you into it. And if you go into the white light, the next thing that you see is basically dead relatives. And here's one of the most fucked up things, is that there are cases where, let's say, someone in their 80s has a near-death experience.

• 3:34:35Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:34:36Speaker 02

  And they say, "Oh, I went into the light, and Nana was there. And Nana is like the grandmother who died when this person was in her 20s." So in her 20s, she grew up with this grandmother, the grandmother died when she was in her 20s. Now she's in her 80s, having a near-death experience, and she says, "When I went into the light, there was Nana, ready to greet me."

• 3:34:58Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 3:34:58Speaker 02

  Well, that's some manipulation. Because decades of careful study of reincarnation by Dr. Ian Stevenson at the University of Virginia, Dr. Helen Wambach, all show that the transition between death and rebirth is, on average, you know, one to five years. It's hardly ever that anyone is in what the Tibetans call the Bardo State, for more than five years.

• 3:35:23Danny Jones?

  One to five years transition period?

• 3:35:25Speaker 02

  Yeah. That's the standard, in most cases. And so...

• 3:35:30Danny Jones?

  So when you're in this transition period, you're essentially what people would think of as a ghost?

• 3:35:34Speaker 02

  Exactly. Exactly. So...

• 3:35:39Speaker 02

  The idea that you would meet your dead grandmother, who died when you were in your twenties, during an out-of-body experience you're having in your eighties is absurd. So people see these dead relatives, and what these are are simulacra, and there are some really creepy cases that I got from out of Carla Turner's research, where people would see, and also PMH Atwater did good research on this. People would see like what appeared to be a dead relative, what seemed to talk like Nana, and then all of a sudden, like she glitched, and it's some monstrous creature.

• 3:36:06Danny Jones?

  What?

• 3:36:07Speaker 02

  Yeah. There are cases like that, where the person realizes something glitches and they realize the deception. And so you see dead relatives. The other thing you see are religious authority figures. So Christians will see Jesus. Hindus will see, I don't know, Krishna.

• 3:36:24Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 3:36:25Speaker 02

  Okay? So they produce simulacra of religious authority figures to get you to go along with the plan. And the plan is, the next stage, if you get that far, you know, say you're having a near-death experience and they haven't resuscitated you yet, and you get as far as this. The next stage is that you're given a life review. These, the angels, play your life back for you, like a holographic recording. And you're made to feel guilt and shame and joy and anguish and go through this whole emotional roller coaster about the shit you've done in your life. And then they use that to try to convince you that morally and for the sake of your spiritual betterment,

• 3:37:10Speaker 02

  the best conditions for you to be born under in your next life are X, Y, and Z. Which a Hindu might call that karma. But a Christian would say like, to the extent that a Christian can even integrate reincarnation, which some of the old Christians did, before it became anathema, like in the writings of Oregon Church Father, you have references to reincarnation. A Christian might say, well, you know, God is like putting you under conditions in your next life that are going to make you more worthy of salvation eventually at the final judgment, or some such bullshit.

• 3:37:44Speaker 02

  And so they spin this yarn for you after showing you like a holographic recording of your life. Now, one of the things that's really creepy about one section I go into overlaps between close encounters and afterlife experiences. And one of the things that's really creepy there is in the case of Betty Andreas and Luca, who was abducted by grays from her household. Her family was frozen by these grays and they took her and one of her daughters. And they brought them to someplace that seemed to be underground where she met the angels. They said they were the angels. And there were these tall blond people, beautiful tall

• 3:38:24Speaker 02

  Nordic blond people. And they said, you know, these little ones, the grays, they're recorders. We use them to record people's lives. They record all the details in a person's life. So they can be played back. And that's what they claim the grays do. And they say, well, we work for God, and they work for us. And they're the aliens. They're like the Nordics. Okay. So it's extremely disturbing. I mean, you know, what it says is that the close encounter phenomenon, when you pay close attention to the details, doesn't just reveal an earthly, like nuts and bolts, physical, let's say, socio-political control system

• 3:39:09Speaker 02

  that we're inside of, that you might escape through death. After all, this is what makes suicide so compelling to a lot of anguished people, is the idea that we can get out of this fucking hellhole finally. There's a way out. And maybe if there's a beneficent God, and there's a beneficent celestial hierarchy, like if you're not a fundamentalist, God will forgive you because God understood how bad your life was. And like, you'll finally be free from this hellish realm that we live in. After all, the Gnostics thought that way, right? They believed we were in this fallen world. And you know, that there's a transcendental realm beyond this realm, and that the aeons are going to welcome you once you could free yourself from the realm governed by the Archons and so forth, right?

• 3:39:49Speaker 02

  Sorry, it ain't that way. The control system is psychotronic. It encompasses what we call the spiritual.

• 3:39:58Speaker 02

  The Belial Group figured this out in Atlantis, that the only way, now you see, new agey people, the hippy dippy flaky new agey types, hate this, because there's a general tendency among new age types to want to believe that our spiritual development is in our own hands on an individual level, and that like if you just elevate your consciousness, you're gonna eventually be reborn under optimal conditions, and then eventually you won't be reborn at all, you're just, you know, go up into the perfect idyllic utopian transcendental

• 3:40:40Speaker 02

  realm. This is a general thrust of new age thinking, and it's all up to you, and you shouldn't project negative intentions, because they'll just come back to you, and you'll wind up with bad karma. By the way, it's another subject I go into is karma. And I show in detailed case studies of reincarnation, the karma is total bullshit. People, even children, get maimed in violent attacks, and they get reborn with birth defects and deformations. Because what happens is, people who were absolutely innocent didn't do anything, they're mutilated by a violent criminal, the poor person gets born with a birth defect. Because what happens is, if you deeply internalize a physical trauma at the moment that you're

• 3:41:24Speaker 02

  dying, like somebody cuts your arm off or something, if you so deeply internalize that during that traumatic event, it will reshape the morphic field of your astral body. And that morphic field of your astral body can impact fetal development in your reincarnated body. So, and this, to understand this, you have to go into the morphic resonance research that Rupert Sheldrake has done, and you have to also look at the extension of it that Ian Stevenson, Dr. Ian Stevenson developed-

• 3:41:59Danny Jones?

  That sounds like some Etsuk Bentop type stuff.

• 3:42:02Speaker 02

  I haven't studied his work.

• 3:42:04Danny Jones?

  Yeah, he's the one who did the gateway, the CIA's gateway astral projection stuff. He was a um.

• 3:42:10Speaker 02

  The other guy besides Robert Monroe who worked on that. Oh, no, yeah.

• 3:42:14Danny Jones?

  He wrote stalking the wild pendulum.

• 3:42:16Speaker 02

  He's the one who wrote the consciousness paper for the CIA, the consciousness study. That's coming back to me now. Yes, yes. Right, no, well, they figured the fuck out of it, you know. MKUltra was all about that from the beginning, too. MKUltra wasn't just like a drugs and like torture technique based mind control program. The main goal of MKUltra was understanding consciousness and the subconscious, cracking consciousness. So, so point being that, you know, I show, among other things, in Thanosis, that karma is a load of crap. The, there's no moral order in death and rebirth. And the entities that try to con you into believing there is are actually just trying to keep you within the control system.

• 3:42:57Speaker 02

  There's no like, uh, you know, um, correlation between how moral a life somebody lived and what conditions they wind up being reborn under. Um, the only thing about karma that I think is legitimate is that if you develop really close bonds with somebody and there's a lot of like emotional baggage in your entanglement with another person, it can carry across lifetimes and you can wind up meeting that person again and having more drama with that person. But there's nothing really moral about that. That's like quantum entanglement.

• 3:43:34Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 3:43:35Speaker 02

  So there's that. And in that sense, yes, there's karmic baggage.

• 3:43:39Danny Jones?

  Weird anecdote that I had on the pod, a surgeon told me on this podcast one time where he had a patient who had a heart transplant. And this woman got a heart transplant from a child and um, or like not, not like a super young child, but like a, maybe like a teenager. And um, she came back to the surgeon and she was like, this is years later. Typically, once you do this, you only have so much contact with the surgeon, you know, afterwards. You literally have, sometimes you never even meet the surgeon until like right before you go into surgery and um. This lady kept trying to get ahold of the surgeon and contacting his nurses and stuff like this because she's, this lady has questions for you. She got this heart transplant years ago, whatever, and she really wants to meet you. So he's like, all right, fuck it. I'll take the meeting. Did it. And this woman was explaining to him, she's like, I

• 3:44:23Danny Jones?

  don't understand, like so many things have changed in my life that are really strange, but this one thing I can't, it's so strange, I need an explanation for it is I have this insatiable craving for McDonald's french fries. And he was like, whoa, that's weird. I don't know. And then it clicked after the meeting that the child who, whose heart she got, who was the organ donor, died in a McDonald's drive-through.

• 3:44:47Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 3:44:48Danny Jones?

  Got hit by, smacked, like T-boned or something in the drive-through.

• 3:44:52Speaker 02

  This is where you have to look at Rupert Sheldrake's research on morphic resonance. Memory, including behavioral memory, is distributed across other organs besides just the brain in a holographic manner. So before you decide to be an organ donor at death, like, understand that, like, you know, you're gonna give part of your behavioral memory, at least, to whoever's gonna inherit that organ.

• 3:45:17Danny Jones?

  Wild. So this is all, this is all in The Nosis, your new book?

• 3:45:24Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, so it's a comprehensive study of death, the afterlife and rebirth that basically reconstructs what I think was the perspective of the Belile group in Atlantis. The rebels of Atlantis, you could say the Promethean faction in Atlantis, that rose up against the Olympian control system.

• 3:45:46Danny Jones?

  The Nosis, ladies and gentlemen, check it out. Available now on, on where? Amazon?

• 3:45:54Speaker 02

  Amazon.

• 3:45:55Danny Jones?

  Amazon?

• 3:45:55Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 3:45:56Danny Jones?

  And everywhere else. We'll link everything below. Dude, we covered so much. We just did four fucking hours.

• 3:46:00Speaker 02

  We got to the four hour mark, huh?

• 3:46:02Danny Jones?

  That was amazing. You are one of my favorite guests on this show, man. We gotta, we gotta keep it going. I can't wait to get you back. I assume you're gonna have another book out here in the next year or so. So.

• 3:46:14Speaker 02

  You know, where I want to turn my focus, and I'll leave this as a concluding note.

• 3:46:18Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:46:19Speaker 02

  Where I want to turn my focus is America.

• 3:46:24Speaker 02

  I always wanted to write a book about America. And I think that, apropos of everything we've been discussing in this conversation, we are facing an imminent, acute constitutional crisis that could lead to the disintegration and collapse of this country. And it ultimately is going to revolve around whether and how we can possibly reintegrate this American breakaway. This super-deep state that we've been talking about, that Epstein could never get access to. To what extent are they still American? And to what extent do they care whether the United States is defeated by China or Russia

• 3:47:09Speaker 02

  or Islam? And are they willing to use the technology and weaponry that they have at their disposal for the defense of this country and the American vision of the future? That's, I think, where my focus is going to go.

• 3:47:28Danny Jones?

  That's fascinating. Well, I can't wait, man. And thank you again for your time coming down here and doing this.

• 3:47:33Speaker 02

  Thank you, Danny.

• 3:47:34Danny Jones?

  I think this is the third one we've done.

• 3:47:35Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 3:47:36Danny Jones?

  And I'm sure there'll be many more. Again, we'll link everything below. Thank you, Jason Giorgioni. Sleep tight, everybody.