AMA - Felix Feng, CEO of Set Protocol ($INDEX Cooperative, DeFi Pulse partnership)

📣 Join us at Invest Ethereum Conference Oct 14th - http://bankless.cc/investeth $25 off w/ “BANKLESS” code ----- 🚀 SUBSCRIBE TO NEWSLETTER: http://bankless.substack.com/ ✊ STARTING GUIDE BANKLESS: https://bit.ly/37Q17uI ❤️ JOIN PRIVATE DISCORD: https://bit.ly/2UVI10O 🎙️ SUBSCRIBE TO PODCAST: http://podcast.banklesshq.com/ 👕 BUY BANKLESS TEE: https://merch.banklesshq.com/ ----- GO BANKLESS WITH THESE SPONSOR TOOLS: 🌐 UNSTOPPABLE DOMAINS - HUMAN READABLE ETHEREUM & CRYPTO ADDRESSES https://bankless.cc/unstoppable 🌈 ZAPPER - ULTIMATE HUB FOR DEFI - ZAP INTO DEFI http://bankless.cc/zapper 💳 MONOLITH - GET THE HOLY GRAIL OF BANKLESS VISA CARDS https://bankless.cc/monolith 🤖YEARN - YIELD-SEEKING MONEY ROBOT THAT FARMS DEFI FOR YOU http://bankless.cc/yearn ------ AMA with Felix Feng Set Protocol has rolled out a TON of new products lately! We bring CEO Felix Feng on the Bankless YouTube to get our questions directly to the source. Some recent Announcements that we'll be talking about: https://medium.com/indexcoop/introducing-the-index-cooperative-a4eaaf0bcfe2 https://medium.com/set-protocol/introducing-the-defi-pulse-index-on-tokensets-79f87c6b295b ------ Don't stop at the video! Subscribe to the Bankless newsletter program http://bankless.substack.com/ Visit the official Bankless website for resources http://banklesshq.com/ Follow Bankless on Twitter https://twitter.com/BanklessHQ Follow Ryan on Twitter https://twitter.com/ryansadams Follow David on Twitter https://twitter.com/TrustlessState Follow DeFi Dad on Twitter https://twitter.com/DeFi_Dad ----- Not financial or tax advice. This channel is strictly educational and is not investment advice or a solicitation to buy or sell any assets or to make any financial decisions. This video is not tax advice. Talk to your accountant. Do your own research. Disclosure. From time-to-time we may add links in this channel to products we use. We may receive commission if you make a purchase through one of these links. We'll always disclose when this is the case.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Ryan Sean Adams?

  The.

• 2:10Ryan Sean Adams?

  The.

• 4:37Ryan Sean Adams?

  Bankless Nation, welcome to this special AMA with Felix Feng, the CEO and founder of SET Protocol. We have never actually had someone from SET on Bankless, so we're really excited about this today. Felix, thanks for spending the time. How are you doing, sir?

• 4:55Speaker 01

  Oh, thanks for having me. I'm actually surprised you never had... Well, was Anthony ever on this?

• 5:01Ryan Sean Adams?

  Well, Anthony's been on, but you know, Anthony talks about a lot of different things. So he's talked SET a little bit, but yeah, like, you know, not an officially dedicated SET episode. So this is going to be exciting for the community, I think.

• 5:15Speaker 01

  Okay, perfect. Yeah, I believe so as well. And yeah, I think it's going to be a lot of fun and I'm doing great and ready to answer questions, maybe add some humor to it if I can. And it'll be fun.

• 5:29David Hoffman?

  Well, this is fantastic timing because SET has rolled out a ton of brand-new products in the last few weeks. And I think, starting with the partnership with DeFi Pulse and the Index Token, the DPI Index Token, I feel like that's where we should start. Can you kind of explain some of the background with that?

• 5:47Ryan Sean Adams?

  And David, do you mind if, before we get into that, do you mind if we just tell everyone who's watching on YouTube that, of course, you can send your questions. This is an Ask Me Anything for Felix and SET, so you can add your questions to YouTube. We will pick them up and we will ask them of Felix. Also, if you are a Bankless member, you can ask those questions in the Bankless Discord to get a little bit of prioritization, and we will ask Felix those questions. Yeah, sorry for interrupting, David. You want to start with that again?

• 6:16David Hoffman?

  Yeah. Yeah, so Felix, you guys have produced the first Index in DeFi. So kind of tell us about your thought process. Before, that was an actual, like, real project. Your thought process around, like, indexes. Did you guys know that? When did you guys know that you guys were going to turn to making indexes?

• 6:33Speaker 01

  Good question. Set, I mean, most people might not know, but Set has actually been all about indexes since the very beginning. When Set was created, we conceived the idea of a basket of tokens, a token that represented many tokens, essentially an ETF. And we were building these products in 2018, but the bear market hit. And nobody wanted to trade the long-tailed coins anymore, and everything consolidated back into Bitcoin, Ether, and stablecoins. And as a result, the company's strategy and the products that we created shifted to reflect what the market wanted,

• 7:15Speaker 01

  which was more trend trading strategy or very simple rebalancing products that help protect against downside. And since we are now seeing a DeFi resurgence and a resurgence of activity in Ethereum, we realized that the index products are now appealing again. So that's when we were also doing a re-architecture of our entire protocol. So we built an entire new version of our protocol. It's called V2. We haven't talked about it at all. But it supports so much new stuff, including indices, including yield farming products, including a lot of other things that you can imagine, such as trend trading strategies and all the stuff we can do before with a ton more power.

• 7:58Speaker 01

  And we had to pick a beachhead first. There were so many things that we can build, but we had to pick one place to start. And when we saw that there were so many DeFi tokens out there that it was really difficult for people to even pick which ones to buy. And there were so many retail users that wanted general exposure but couldn't do so. Like, we saw that the index opportunity for DeFi tokens to be a huge opportunity. And a few months back, we were chatting with DeFi Pulse, and they had a really great idea for doing specifically a DeFi index branded under the DeFi Pulse kind of methodology. And that was when we realized, hey, we can do something together. We can take the two best brands, one in asset management and one in

• 8:43Speaker 01

  And in tracking DeFi and providing data around DeFi and we can build a really, really amazing and great product. And that's really what what DeFi Pulse Index was. And that was launched about three, three weeks ago, and it's been getting a ton of traction since the first day that we launched, it got to a million dollars in AUM. And, you know, since then, it's no, we, we recently launched the index co-op cooperative, which is essentially kind of a community around managing and creating indices. And we launched a yield farming component to, and that helped boost that to about 6.5 million dollars right now. And there's almost 10 million dollars of liquidity

• 9:26Speaker 01

  on Uniswap. So this is one of the most, in the traditional ETF world, ETFs and indexes are some of the most widely liquid and traded products. And we're starting to see some of that emerge in, in, in DeFi too. So that's a little bit of backstory.

• 9:42Ryan Sean Adams?

  That's cool, Felix. So before we get into some of the community questions, I just want to, like, for some listeners, they, they are, if they've been reading Bankless, they've definitely been exposed to, to Set. But for someone's, someone that's new, I think this DeFi index kind of illustrates the sorts of things that Set can do. Like, I think of Set as kind of a DeFi native, a crypto native ETF of sorts. Maybe Felix, you can, like, check me on that. Is that kind of what it is? And then what are the differences? Maybe even for folks that aren't familiar with an ETF, maybe you could explain that and talk about how the similarities

• 10:25Ryan Sean Adams?

  or differences with Set. And then we can get into the, the, the DeFi index itself and what's comprised inside of that index.

• 10:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, it makes sense. So I think at the highest level, SET is an asset management protocol. So it enables people to own essentially a SET token, which is an ERC20 token that represents some sort of portfolio in which it can implement some sort of asset management strategy. Indexing is one type of strategy that can be implemented on SET. Another type of strategy that we launched recently was a field yield farming products, which will automatically harvest uni and crops. We can implement some sort of automated trading strategies. In the future, you can do leveraged trading as well. So there's

• 11:17Speaker 01

  and users can simply buy one of these tokens, whether on Uniswap or minting it on a primary market themselves, and own it and automatically automate some sort of strategy without needing to do any work on their end. So that's kind of what SET is about. And the relationship between kind of the one of these like a product and SET is that the product itself, the SET token, can be generated and run by a third party. So historically, we've created some products called robo-sets, which are totally managed via smart contracts and Oracle inputs. Then earlier this year, we launched something called social trading,

• 11:59Speaker 01

  which is enabling third-party traders to essentially run strategies on SET. And then I think the final iteration, which we recently launched, was essentially enabling the community to aggregate the wisdom of the crowds, if you will, to manage a collection of products. And the first one that was launched was at Index Co-op, which is focused around index-related products. And to give you a little bit of context, ETFs are exchange traded products. In a traditional like financial world, they're one of the most widely adopted products in the whole world. And you probably own some without even knowing it.

• 12:40Speaker 01

  Most people who have a 401k or retirement account are automatically allocated into some sort of index fund or ETF. So you're you might be already investing in these and not know it. And and this is a massive industry. 23% of equity assets are tied into ETFs. And they're some of the most liquid and widely traded products in the world. And the biggest companies around this are are named you've probably heard of before, like BlackRock or Vanguard. These are you're managing upwards of $10 trillion of assets. And the ETF industry has been booming in the past 20 years or so.

• 13:21Speaker 01

  So we think it's a pretty big deal to to this ETF stuff. And that does a ginormous market in the traditional financial world. And that hasn't fully translated into crypto yet. And that's kind of what what what Index Co-op is about, is building the community around evangelizing, growing, and creating the best crypto index products in the world.

• 13:45Ryan Sean Adams?

  Very cool. All right. Okay. So now we have the baseline of what a a set token is. It's kind of like the like it's kind of like an ETF, only it is basically crypto native and it's a collection of some assets. Sometimes those are managed a bit more actively by an individual in the community. And sometimes those are just kind of indexed related. Sometimes those are algorithmically traded. So there can be all sorts of different strategies for each of these sets, right? So can you tell us going back to like V2? So actually, I think SET was maybe our fourth tactic that we ever published on Bankless. And I recall it was something called like, you know,

• 14:27Ryan Sean Adams?

  use a money robot to manage your money because basically you're probably going to screw it up yourself. It's sort of the ETF, the Vanguard argument, right? Like You should be buying index funds because you know, your, your own investor psychology will kind of short circuit your, your, your investment process, right? So that, that was like the fourth tactic we ever put out on bankless. And even then, that was about a year ago, uh, set was, was humming. You guys were fairly mature, you had some products, but you've added so much since then. Can you tell us what's like everything and we'll go through all of kind of the elements that are in this new V2 Felix?

• 15:06Speaker 01

  Absolutely. Um, man, it has been a long time since the initial tactics and uh, yeah, I mean, when we, I think a year ago, one of the really awesome things that we launched was the, the trend trading strategies.

• 15:21Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yes, I remember.

• 15:22Speaker 01

  That was essentially a strategy that use a technical indicator such as a 20 day moving average, the 26 uh exponential moving average or, or the RSI to automatically make trades uh based on kind of momentum. And these things were backtested to be uh, to work extremely well in the long, in the long run. So if you're holding for kind of the three year timeframe, this would be something that would help you accumulate uh ether or crypto over time. And it would, and essentially it would, like you said, automate kind of this process, what, which would normally take a ton of time, take a ton of technical know-how and a ton of stress, if you will,

• 16:04Speaker 01

  because it doesn't let you sleep at night because you're paying attention to all the charts and the numbers every day.

• 16:08Ryan Sean Adams?

  And most people screw it up anyway, don't they?

• 16:10Speaker 01

  You're gonna screw it up anyways. So this allows you to just buy a prop to essentially like own a, own, own a set. And then you essentially can set it and forget it. So you can own one of these products, you can put it away and they'll just automatically implement the strategy for you. Uh, and it's done extremely well in the bear market. It's, there's some of the RSI sets have helped people double their ether uh at, at some points. And it's uh, you know, it's, it's a very viable long-term strategy as long as the crypto markets are pretty uh, I guess nonsensical, if you will, or like they're still immature. So uh, there aren't people who are Running these trades sophisticated actors who are doing these these things. So that's where these strategies still are very viable.

• 16:53Speaker 01

  So that's where we began and we we got a lot of momentum uh kind of through launching these strategies and we launched a whole family of these trend trading strategies and and with social trading, we really opened up the strategy creation side things to a whole bunch of more people. And and the architecture and the technology behind set ended up being very geared towards these strategies. And when we started seeing a bull market happen and people wanted to trade other assets, people wanted to use margin, people wanted to do X, Y, and Z. We realized that the V one of our protocol wasn't extensible to be able to handle all that. So we started to rearchitect our protocols so that it can do anything.

• 17:34Speaker 01

  It can incorporate any type of integration. It can handle any type of strategy that we can imagine at the time. So we made it, we created a new protocol. It's called set protocol V two, which is super extensible. It's very modular. Uh it, you know, can add any type of functionality. And as a result, like it can handle a lot of this new kind of integrations that we're seeing. And we had, we just had to decide like what we want to start with. So it was the the ETFs that we started with, with the deep impulse index. Then a week later, it shows how rapidly we can move. We launched a few yield farming products. We launched like essentially a few days after Uniswap announced their uh their their their their token or their uni token.

• 18:17Speaker 01

  And their yield farming associated with it. A few days later, we launched a yield farming product. So at this point, we're ready to

• 18:25Speaker 01

  this protocol is ready to launch a whole bunch of different strategies and uh right now uh the focus is really on indices. Uh as we think that there's a big market for that and there's a big big appetite for for users to exposure to these to these products.

• 18:40Ryan Sean Adams?

  Very cool. So all of those things are built on set. And so I guess diving into them a bit more modular. So like the the DeFi index, if I buy the DeFi index, what am I buying exactly? And how often does it rebalance?

• 18:58Speaker 01

  Good question. So what the DeFi index is, is a, is a set token that tracks an index that has been generated by DeFi Pulse. They have a methodology for index. You can find it on their website. It's called Pulse.in and it has a pretty sophisticated criteria of one asset inclusion, like which tokens can get up, get included into the index. There's a whole bunch of criteria such as it has to be listed on DeFi Pulse, there has to be a minimum of 5% of circulating supply, there, it has to be a team that is pretty much pre-reputable and the contracts need to be audited. And you know, there's a number

• 19:42Speaker 01

  of different criteria as well. And it has the, the methodology for how you would weight the composition of the tokens. So it's something that's pretty sophisticated and well thought through. And currently the index is comprised of 11 tokens, weighted by, by market, by circulating supply of the market cap. So includes tokens like Wi-Fi, includes tokens like Lend and Compound, Maker, Unii, a lot of the big names that you know are included in this index. And this index's aim is to be the most representative index for DeFi tokens. And what you're buying essentially is, or you're, you're investing in is essentially a token that tracks this index. And it's not a synthetic product, it's not derivative.

• 20:27Speaker 01

  So you can, if you own this index, you actually have, can get access to the underlying through an issuance and creation mechanism. So to be able to mint one of these indexes, what you do is you act, like a, a party actually has to take all 11 of the tokens and like deposit them to a smart contract. And in return, you get the set token. And if you own the set token, you can always redeem, which is burning that token and retrieving all the underlying. So you have the peace of mind that Everything that the index represents is actually held in a smart contract and you can audit this all yourself.

• 21:03Ryan Sean Adams?

  And I just want to point out real quick, the problem that this solves basically is because uh go try to keep up with DeFi, right? Like David and I do it. It's a full-time job to understand these assets and what what's going to be big next and that sort of thing. Uh just, just like it's a full-time job to invest and trade in the stock market. So what an index does like this is it gives you exposure to a rotating range of assets that that pop into this top, it's top 10, right Felix? And you can kind of just set it and forget it. If you want exposure to DeFi, you don't have to research every single asset. That's kind of the value proposition that I see. I think David's got a question here.

• 21:44David Hoffman?

  Yeah, and the, the timing of your guys' release of this, I thought was pretty, pretty cool because you guys released it right before the uni token came out. And so therefore the uni token wasn't included in the in i- initial index. But since uh uni then moved itself into the top 10, uh the index uh then therefore included it. Uh which is pretty cool because that's exactly what Ryan said. It just automatically updates with the tokens that uh should be included. But uh Felix, can you kind of talk to us about the behind, what, what happened behind the scenes there? With the uni swap before it was included to becoming included? Like how, how did that process go?

• 22:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, so what you're descri- like, so what you're describing is a process of rebalancing. Uh so in a traditional ETF world, a rebalancing is, is simply the act of either be adjusting weights. So uh you know, some's in a centralized world, some sort of party would be, you know, selling some of the, the overweight assets. Uh maybe into reserve assets such as US dollar or directly into an underweight asset. So for example, uh you know, and, and how this would work for at least the DeFi Puls index set in theory is like, okay, so right now. Uh you're gonna essentially have an addition of uni that currently is 0% of the, the weighting. And there's a number of other assets that are overweight, uh if uh post, uh if you were to model out like.

• 23:06Speaker 01

  How much uni is required. So it would try to sell a proportionate amount of MKR, of comp, of all the tokens, and then buy uni as a result, right? So the idea is that, like, that's kind of how the reweighting actually works. And the rebalancing itself initially was handled kind of through like a few, a number of transactions. And the idea is that like in the future, anybody can call a smart contract to help perform and reweight the rebalances as well in a trustless way and a trustless manner.

• 23:38David Hoffman?

  Very cool, very cool. We have a question from Jake Shervinsky in the Bankless Discord. Can DeFi Pulse change its methodology and therefore thereby change the composition of the index in real time? And in other words, to what extent are token holders relying on DeFi Pulse to manage the index?

• 23:57Speaker 01

  That's a good question. So, so one of the questions that I didn't answer was how often does it rebalance? It is once per month. So how the index co-op works is that DeFi Pulse is the index methodologists. They're the ones that create the methodology and then translate that methodology into weights of like what the rebalance would be each month. So they only submit the weights each month. And then the, and then the co-op or the organization, or sorry, the community can look at the weights that have been submitted and validate and verify that the weights are correct and reasonably mapped to the index. So if ever there's a large addition or deletion,

• 24:39Speaker 01

  like the community can, can, can review that to make sure nothing is wrong and that it actually does reasonably map to index. The main thing that this is trying to protect against is what if a methodologist created a rebalance that was 100% made of, for example, pickle? And they wanted to pump the price of pickle and sell everything else? That's something that would be a big problem, something very malicious. So that's the, the role of the community around kind of the index co-op is to ensure that some of these things, for example, don't happen. So there, there is a check and balances that like. DeFi Pulse, even though they they are submitting the weights, they cannot unilaterally

• 25:19Speaker 01

  update the weights, uh, no, and and and perform a trade and and and harm everyone as a result.

• 25:25David Hoffman?

  So so DeFi Pulse is acting as the oracle to a like a a privileged oracle, perhaps, to the governing token holders of of the um of the co-op. Is that right?

• 25:37Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 25:38David Hoffman?

  Okay, so it's the it's the the responsibility of reweighting the actual index belongs to the co-op, not to DeFi Pulse. Okay, cool.

• 25:48Speaker 01

  Right, so that's one of the main things that the co the co-op is responsible is for is the actual rebalancing. So none of the parties involved, like, you know, DeFi Pulse or any of the methodologies have custody. They simply serve as an oracle of like what the next methodology would be, and thus they are, you know, not as privy to act the actual risks of, you know, quote unquote, management.

• 26:11Ryan Sean Adams?

  So, okay, so the like, the answer to Jake's question is, is basically if DeFi Pulse got evil, really wanted to pump pickle tokens, right? There there's a check in the system, which is the the co-op, basically, that would kind of rein them in. So that that appears to be a primary function of the indoc indexed cooperative. Um, so like, how does that manage? And and what other functions does the index cooperative have? Because that's new in V2, right, Felix? This this notion of an index cooperative? Is there some kind of like token governance that manages it? And who who are the members of this cooperative?

• 26:47Speaker 01

  Uh, good question. So just to make it really clear, there's a clear, there's a distinction between set protocol and then the cooperative. The cooperative is a is a separate entity, like separate from the protocol. And this is an entity that is essentially a a community that governs, uh, the the creation and maintenance of index products. And the set protocol is simply a technology provider. It's essentially a prime brokerage, if you will, that serves a a number of these different entities. So the set protocol provides the infrastructure for the set. It provides the technology to be able to perform rebalances. It performs some of the other, you know, kind of administrative functions for helping

• 27:30Speaker 01

  to create coordination between, uh, you know, between the strategists, uh, or the methodologies and the actual users and and any other third parties involved. And the cooperatives role is a few things. One is to add and remove and maintain like new indices. So the DeFi Pulse Index is the first kind of index in the Index Cooperative, but it's not the only one. Members can add other ones over time. So if the community was interested in maintaining, for example, NFT index, that is something they can do. They believe that the market opportunity was large enough. They believe that they can benefit enough that that's something that might be interesting.

• 28:15Speaker 01

  Or if they believe that that was a product that should exist, that's something they can do. If they wanted L2 index, that's something they could add. If they wanted a different type of DeFi index, that's also possible as well.

• 28:26Ryan Sean Adams?

  And how do they add it, Felix?

• 28:28Speaker 01

  So it happens through decentralized governance. So initially, some of these ideas, they're already being proposed in a Discord channel for the Index Co-op. And if there's enough steam for any of these ideas, they get moved into a proposal that they can be generated on Discord. And if there's enough steam and traction and social consensus around there, it can be moved into some sort of off-chain voting like on Snapshot. And if that goes through, then community members can do on-chain voting eventually and vote these type of products. And so I think that's kind of the idea of like how the co-op works.

• 29:08Speaker 01

  And they collectively make these decisions together to, no, for the benefit of trying to grow the index.

• 29:16Ryan Sean Adams?

  I got it. So in the end vote, like the actual on-chain process, right? So there's this, all this off-chain governance as we might think of it. But is there some kind of a token vote at the end of this? Where the Index Co-op members just kind of vote and make, or is there no token at this point for that?

• 29:35Speaker 01

  So there is a native token called Index, like all capitals I N D E X. It's a governance token with intention of allowing community members to actually vote on these decisions and to bind it based on the ownership. So yes, there's a token kind of involved and a lot of the smart contracts that are utilized are the same ones used by Compound Governance and Uniswap Governance. So a lot of the mechanics are the same in terms of how proposals are generated. Eventually, some sort of quorum is required, some minimum number of tokens required to create a proposal. So a lot of those dynamics also apply here.

• 30:13Ryan Sean Adams?

  So who owns that token at this point? What's like the distribution like?

• 30:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, good question. So initially, this is a, this is a token where the distribution is very community heavy and community weighted. So initially, there was an airdrop that was given to all existing DeFi Pulse Index holders. That was a, that was basically a airdrop to anybody who believed in the product early. It was not announced or anything like that. So these are users that probably are much more heavily aligned with actually governing the, the protocol and being, being involved. The second part is that there is a liquidity mining program that was, that went live, yes, about 21 hours ago. Essentially, it's a program that incentivizes people to, to, to take their DeFi Pulse Index and Ether and add liquidity to Uniswap.

• 31:03Speaker 01

  There was a lack of liquidity before, so now we're, there's incentive for, you know, people to essentially earn these index tokens for providing useful work to, to the system. A third allocation is for index methodologies. So index methodologies are one of the, the keys to the success of this, of this co-op. And being able to attract the best methodologies, you know, if, for example, like, you know, like some names that we, that, that the co-op would be excited to really have might be. Might be like no Bitwise or no any or CoinMarketCap or or Messari or any of these,

• 31:44Speaker 01

  any of these players might be a interesting service provider as a methodologist. And there is essentially, based on the amount of contribution that is provided, they, these service providers and methodologists can earn some of these index tokens by providing useful work. So I think that's kind of the, the, the notion and the principles is that those who provide useful work and, and actually contribute will can get, can earn some of these index governance tokens over time.

• 32:14Ryan Sean Adams?

  Very cool, very cool. Didn't know that.

• 32:16David Hoffman?

  Yeah, this is pretty, like, like we said at the beginning, great timing for this AMA. So Felix, when the Uniswap airdrop happened to everyone, people started like looking around because so many protocols had a token at that, at that point. Like if Uniswap had a token, like people were gonna scope the field and see like, alright, who else is gonna do a token? And there were very few protocols left that hadn't done token. And one was Set and the other one was DYDX. And then maybe people thought about Instadap too, as well as a tokenless protocol that still had opportunities for a token. Is it fair to consider this index token as Set's token? Or is it something, you know, more parallel to it?

• 32:59Speaker 01

  It is probably the latter. So this is, this index governance token is not the, the Set token, just to be very clear. It's actually a token governing a, a community that has built a product on top of the Set protocol infrastructure. So this is a token that is, a- as the name of the token describes, index, it's only concerned with index-related products and index-related matters. Set protocol is something much broader in terms of the infrastructure that it provide, i- i- i- it serves and, and, and what types of matters it's responsible for. So this is, yeah, this is something different.

• 33:39David Hoffman?

  Right, okay, so that's why it's getting airdropped to the index holder or the DPI token holders and not any other holders of the set tokens, right? The money robots or the social traders. So that's pretty cool. And so, and I also thought it's pretty cool that the Uniswap retroactive airdrop model also got copied so quickly right off the bat. Makes a perfect use case for this one as well. And so you said, you mentioned something like liquidity mining is also the way the rest of the token gets distributed out into the hands of people. And so I'm assuming the value proposition of this token is just kind of like all the other value propositions of all the other tokens where there's might maybe some management

• 34:21David Hoffman?

  fee for managing the rebalances or producing new indexes. And so these token holders are incentivized to put out as many indexes as they deem the market would want and then charge a small fee on like maybe the rebase or not the rebase, the rebalance. Got rebasing stuck in my head. The rebalancing and then also the management. Is there any fee included for the managing of the DPI token? Or is that something that is left to the governing token holders?

• 34:53Speaker 01

  At the end of the day, like the power of the governance is for the community. So the community is to decide. That said, in the traditional financial world, ETF companies like BlackRock or like Vanguard, they typically monetize via some sort of expense ratio, which is essentially a management fee. That might be charged on an annual basis or they do securities lending. So they can take some of those stocks that are in the ETF and lend them to hedge funds for interest. So those are some of the ideas that traditional ETF companies would do and some of those might be translatable over into the crypto kind of context.

• 35:35David Hoffman?

  Wait, let's go into that a little bit more. So if we wanted to copy that same business model where there are assets on a balance sheet inside an ETF, but then somebody like BlackRock takes those assets and then lends them out behind the scenes and pockets that interest rate? Is that how it works?

• 35:53Speaker 01

  It depends on the actual company itself. Some of the providers will share a significant portion of that interest back to the holders. Sometimes they'll take a percentage of that and pocket it themselves. Some of them will take the entire interest kind of rate earned and take it themselves. I think there is a challenge because it is a lot more operational overhead and work to actually do that. Even the best providers, for example Vanguard, can only lend out forty percent of the total amount. So it's not like they can lend out everything. There's definitely a supply and demand dynamic that comes with it.

• 36:33Speaker 01

  But it is like pretty interesting in DeFi because there's lending markets for so many different assets. And there's not only lending opportunities, but there's farming opportunities as well. There's staking opportunities. For example, S and X potentially could be staked and you can earn more S and X over time. So there's, you know, there's a whole world out there that the community can decide to embark on if it made sense. And they can just help decide some of the economics if it made sense.

• 37:03David Hoffman?

  So I'm starting to see a lot of overlap with this product and both a little bit of Urn and Balancer in the mix as well, right? So Balancer is a pool of eight possible tokens that people can trade and use as liquidity like Uniswap. And then Yarn or Urn is like this thing that goes out and seeks yield in DeFi, right? And I see a little bit of both of that in this product as well, where there are assets that are inside of a pool. And then also those same assets can go and be leveraged in DeFi for additional returns. So there seems to be some overlap here. Maybe let's go into some compare and contrast. So with Balancer, you have eight tokens in a pool. And one of the unique things about Balancer is that you can trade against these tokens.

• 37:48David Hoffman?

  And then the fees for people that are looking for liquidity go into the pool. And when the assets are inside of an index, are they able to be leveraged for liquidity by people outside of the index looking to trade those assets?

• 38:03Speaker 01

  Good question. I think that's one of the main distinctions and differences between Set and Balancer. Set sets essentially index products and vehicles, map and primitives map a lot more closely to traditional kind of index products. So they don't rebalance constantly or all the time, or reweight all the time, or suffer from potential impermanent loss as well. So I think that, and the rebalancing only happens at specific times in this case, in cases that are determined by the index methodologies. In the DeFi Pulse index scenario,

• 38:40Speaker 01

  it is just monthly, but others might be less frequent, like quarterly or biannually. And essentially, there's no liquidity that's provided through this scheme. That said, it is possible for liquidity to be provided, but that's not something that currently exists, but it's something can be added by a community over time.

• 39:06David Hoffman?

  Okay, yeah, that makes a ton of sense. And that's just not really what the use case of these indexies of tokens are really meant for. Balancer is unique in the sense that it's supposed to be tracking the market at that one specific point in time, but that is also allowing other people to trade against the balancer pool, which Set doesn't allow. So that's kind of the advantage of holding a Set. But in theory, I think you could make an index where maybe you have the lend token, you have a lot of DeFi tokens in there, and then you can put them into balancer pools in the backend, where we, kind of like what we were just saying, where you, as BlackRock or some index management company can lend

• 39:50David Hoffman?

  out assets that are contained inside of the ETF, which is kind of like in Yirn's camp or Urn's camp, where maybe it's really advantageous to have an index with, maybe there's a bunch of more synthetic asset platforms. So there's a synthetic asset set, and one of those assets is synthetics, maybe another one is UMA, maybe there's others coming down the line. And in this particular set, there could, or in this particular, excuse me, this index, there could be a strategy baked into the index to also be staking synthetics at the same time. Is that correct?

• 40:26Speaker 01

  That is correct and potentially definitely possible.

• 40:30David Hoffman?

  Right, yeah, so that sounds really something similar to to Wyarn's camp. So it sounds like you guys are not you guys, but the the index co-op is starting to get into, you know, the the yield maximizing game where it seems to be like each each index is its own index, but it also could have a strategy baked into it as well, which could make it more or less, you know, lucrative for the people investing.

• 40:55Speaker 01

  Correct. I think one of the cool things is the composability of the D fine Ethereum. I think that any products that any constituents that support my index that there's a Y vault for, like you can like you can actually put that into a Y vault and maximize the yield on it. So if there was, for example, an oracle index and it had link in it, you can put the link into a link Y vault and then it can and and urine can do the work of actually, you know, generating a yield for it. So I mean, it's definitely composable in that sense. And I think that would be to the benefit of the index holders to to potentially utilize and get the additional yield, given that the risk is is is manageable

• 41:40Speaker 01

  and that they understand what they're getting souls into in those situations.

• 41:45David Hoffman?

  I think it's I think it's gonna be interesting to see the index co-op and Wyarn play off of each other because, you know, Wyarn could leverage the index co-op and the index co-op could leverage Wyarn at the same time. And so I think there's gonna be a very strong like stitching of these protocols. That's gonna be pretty cool to watch.

• 42:02Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 42:03Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, I want to get some community questions, but I have one last one on this because it's so fascinating, Felix. So can there be multiple index cooperatives, right? So could somebody like fork the index cooperative or come up with their own and start using that instead? How would that even work?

• 42:22Speaker 01

  Absolutely. I mean, I think that's something that we've seen in crypto and DeFi a lot is essentially forking. So people can take the smart contracts and the concepts and make their own. And that's completely possible because everything is open source. No, set protocol is available to everybody. The contracts under the index DAO can be copied as well. So that's something that can be done similar to how Sushi Swap, for example, for Uniswap. So that's, yeah, not out of question. There can be multiple ones that have different philosophies or goals or whatnot. And I think, you know, that's something we might see some more of in the future.

• 43:03Speaker 01

  And maybe we have consolidation as well. I think one thing that we haven't seen is like forks kind of merge together. Like in the traditional like world, like you have a lot of M and A, like protocols buying other protocols. The only example we've seen so far is like Tron buying BitTorrent. But we haven't seen in DeFi like other things buying other things, but just a lot of divestitures, if you will, are splitting up. So I think that one of the predictions I have is probably that in the next year, we'll see a lot more like consolidation. So like protocols actually like absorbing other communities or other protocols. So.

• 43:38Ryan Sean Adams?

  Very cool. Like so multiple index cooperatives spinning up, pursuing their own strategies. Maybe at some point in time, bigger ones acquire the smaller ones or they merge together as kind of like super DAOs. Very interesting future. Want to get to a question that's coming in from Discord from QAZ. QAZ asks, any plans to rapidly onboard more retail users? Any plans for a mobile app? I see you guys as the next e-Toro. Would that assumption be correct or are you targeting institutions?

• 44:12Speaker 01

  With the index co-op, no, indexes are one of the most widely traded and owned products in the world. And this is something that really is meant for wider spread consumption by retail. So it is to the interests of the index co-op to be able to. Spread the indices as far and as wide as as possible. So that means centralized exchanges. That means other wallets. It means potentially even, yeah, uh, and as many, uh, it means as collateral and as many use cases as possible. So being collateral for Maker Dow, collateral on AVE or on Compound. Those are the things that uh would be advantageous.

• 44:53Speaker 01

  Uh, no, for not only retail users, but also other personas such as funds. Funds may be interested in like hedging. So if they own a bunch of illi- relatively illiquid, let's say DeFi tokens. And they believe that the market was going down. Uh, they don't want to sell their tokens for tax purposes, also liquidity. They can hedge uh using the DeFi index. So there is use cases, not only for institutions, but also for retail. So this, that's why indexes are so widely adopted is because there's something for everybody.

• 45:24Ryan Sean Adams?

  It's interesting here because Q A Z is is asking if you guys, he he says he sees you as the next Etoro. And is that assumption correct? What what's interesting though, Felix is um, you you know, what SET becomes is almost like this, this asset production factory, this asset production protocol, right? And your assets can be anywhere in DeFi. They could be on Uniswap, they could be on Balancer, they could be in a, in a wire and strategy. They could be listed on Coinbase or Binance, all over the place, right? Which is a bit more, which is a bit different than an Etoro, which like an Etoro also has kind of like a, a user interface and um, all of these other things. What do you think about the comparison between a a SET and a Etoro?

• 46:09Ryan Sean Adams?

  Are you guys DeFi's Etoro or do you see it a little differently?

• 46:13Speaker 01

  Um, we say it a little bit differently. Uh, we can see how people may think that SET is, you know, the DeFi Etoro because some of the social trading products that were launched earlier this year. Uh, and it seemed like SET was building a platform for a bunch of social traders and people can follow others. So that made a ton of sense. Uh, though, you know, I think with SET protocol, it really is meant to be uh infrastructure and a primitive. Uh, you know, SET token sets just happens to be the First UI that supports it, but anybody can build a user interface. And when it comes to some of these indices, people are actually acquiring them by many on different interfaces. People are using Argent or Xerion or Zapper, a whole bunch of different like D-Bank or other types of wallets.

• 46:57Speaker 01

  People are actually acquiring these products in. So especially when they're listed on Balancer or Uniswap per se, there's automatically integrated. So I think we, I think kind of the way that you described it makes a lot more, is kind of how we think about it as well as that. Set is really kind of a, an asset, kind of production factory, if you will. Like they're creating these tokenized strategy or it's a framework and a primitive for creating tokenized strategies. And they're represented that can be traded anywhere. And we're less of, you know, building an app or, you know, a user interface that people can, that can, can use. That's something that, that anybody else can do, given that this is, you know, supposedly kind of indestructible kind of infrastructure.

• 47:41Ryan Sean Adams?

  So are sets traded on centralized exchanges today? Have any exchanges adopted them?

• 47:47Speaker 01

  Um, there for the DeFi Pulse Index, I think is on one or two of the, the smaller ones at the moment. And it is to the advantage of the, of the index cooperative to try to get this, get these things listed more broadly.

• 48:02Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah. And how long until we see that, do you think? Just your, you know, gut prediction, I guess. Is this gonna take, like, is this gonna happen soon? Weeks? Are we talking months or years?

• 48:12Speaker 01

  I have no idea. I mean, business development, like, you know, by other people, you know, you never really know. So, I mean, but part of it is the volume and the, and, and the popularity and kind of this wide and how widespread it is. So the, the greater that is, the more exchanges may, may, may, may favor and prioritize, you know, listing something like this.

• 48:35Ryan Sean Adams?

  It would be interesting if exchanges start to get into their own index cooperatives as well. Interesting dynamic there.

• 48:42Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 48:42Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 48:44Speaker 01

  Definitely.

• 48:44Ryan Sean Adams?

  You look like you're gonna add something.

• 48:46Speaker 01

  Future of exchanges were creating their own indices and, and interacting with the index cooperative to, to, to, to try to grow it and, and, and, and, and make it happen.

• 48:57David Hoffman?

  So Felix, a second ago, you were talking about how you want to get these indices into collateral in MakerDAO, collateral in all DPI applications, right? And I know MakerDAO is very particular and risk averse to adding collateral, right? Because each collateral needs its own kind of risk assessment, right? And there needs to be some due diligence with what that risk is. And I think you can make the argument that with an index, it's a lot less risky because it's an index, right? It's diversified, it's spread out across many different assets, and so the chances of it blowing up are reduced because it has less dependency on one particular asset. However, there's also composable risk, right?

• 49:38David Hoffman?

  Because with many different assets, a lot of these protocols are stitched together in the background. And then there's also the straight-up contracts that produce these things in the first place. So what's your take here? How do we balance the fact that it's diversified, but there's also composable risk? How do you balance that out when we want to get these things as collateral into something like Maker?

• 50:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's a really good question. I think that Maker already, I mean, if you think about Maker and its set of collateral, it's kind of already a basket, if you really think about it, right? Anything that's added in its entirety is a basket. And it wants to minimize the risk as much as possible. And if it were to add every single asset in the index itself, it would expose itself to just as amount, just the same amount of risk, right? So I think with the DPI index, like you said, diversifies that risk. Like, it would be taking the same risk, except we can do it in a much smaller way. So I think overall, like even though there is composable risk, like the risk of the entire

• 50:43Speaker 01

  asset blowing up is much lower in aggregate. So I think that it would make really great collateral on Maker. Obviously, the risks and the volatility and it needs to be analyzed a lot more closely. There probably needs to be a lot more data around how the index has traded and how rebalances happen. But other than that, like, we think that it could be really great collateral.

• 51:09David Hoffman?

  So Felix, this is a follow-up on what we were talking about before from a member of the community who asks, "Does the introduction of index, the token, box out a possible SET token in the future?"

• 51:24Speaker 01

  I mean, the index token is just for to index kind of community and for indices, and there could be other types of, you know, community tokens for other kind of verticals. That said, I think SET does need to be some sort of kind of decentralized infrastructure, since it's serving all these communities. So it definitely, it's not out of possibility.

• 51:49David Hoffman?

  Hmm. It's good to know. Within the realm of possibilities. Okay, so there's another question coming in from the YouTube. Let's see. Maybe this is just a good follow-up. "Why did SET have to partner with the co-op index at all? Why couldn't SET just launch SET and have governed indices on SET?" Is your answer going to be more or less the same, or is there another aspect to talk about there?

• 52:18Speaker 01

  I think that there, I think that's something I mentioned earlier, but want to drive in as a point again, is really the delineation between the SET protocol and the folks that are, and the communities are running the actual strategies. Like, SET is meant to be more like a prime brokerage. In the traditional world, the prime brokerage is like Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, JP Morgan. They serve the funds of the world, right? They serve the Black Rocks, they serve the hedge funds, etc., as a service provider and a technology provider. So that's kind of what SET is, is really, SET protocol is, is really kind of the biggest prime brokerage, if you will, in DeFi. And then, the index

• 53:01Speaker 01

  co-op is separated, like, and as a prime brokerage, you're not really running a fund, like, or strategies itself. That's not the job of that. It's more to help provide services and intermediate. And, you know, the index co-op is really responsible for the strategy generation, the methodology generation, and for the spreading of the actual kind of the strategy itself.

• 53:26Ryan Sean Adams?

  So here is a question Felix from a YouTube listener. I would like to create a set, but I've been told by a few lawyers that the set tokens representing the trader strategies are indeed a security, common enterprise investment dependent on a third party. Is that the case? Any, have you, do you have any regulatory clarification on what these sets actually are?

• 53:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I think there's a few things here. I mean, the first is like, well, is, I mean, I'm not a lawyer, by the way, so this is not legal advice or anything like that. So I can only provide my own opinions or what I understand. And, you know, definitely you all should consult your own lawyers before, before doing anything. But I guess in the, in terms of social trading, I think maybe that's what the, the, the, the, the questioner was, was asking about. I think there's a few things like one is, is underlying assets kind of a security. And I think that most of the assets on, on token sets are just

• 54:32Speaker 01

  like Bitcoin, Ether, USD, which I think most people can make an argument it's not a security and sufficiently decentralized. And then essentially the trader isn't really, doesn't ever have custody. They can't like take the money and run. They don't control the money. All their execution is done via Dutch auctions, which is a very fair and open way to do a trade and provide a price. And simply the trader is just providing a signal. It's just data. Like everyone is just an oracle, right? It just happens that oracle is a trader that decides when to trade and, and that's it. And that's what, that's how kind of etoro and social trading works is that the people, like people just expose like what they traded

• 55:15Speaker 01

  and then people just follow other people. It's kind of like, you know, if David Hoffman, you're like, oh, I'm gonna buy wifi. And then you just told Ryan and Ryan's like, oh, I want to do that too. So you just follow him. Like that's kind of what it is.

• 55:27Ryan Sean Adams?

  I take David, I take all of David's investment advice.

• 55:31David Hoffman?

  That was a real conversation.

• 55:34Speaker 01

  Well, that's what social trading is. And that's what we're just enabling more in a scalable manner.

• 55:41Ryan Sean Adams?

  Okay, here's another question coming in from a YouTube watcher. Hey, guys, is it possible to create, quote, NFT index, unquote, of the top 10 NFT projects?

• 55:53Speaker 01

  Absolutely. Anything that's an ERC 20 token can be included into a set or an index.

• 56:00David Hoffman?

  What about actual NFTs themselves? Maybe, maybe there's like a set of NFTs that have 10 tokens each, but they're ERC 721s. Is there, is there room for innovation here?

• 56:13Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, I think one of the cool ideas that people have is to wrap, you know, 721s into ERC 20s. So you can have fungible or partial ownership of a 721, and that could be put into a set. I think the main thing is just liquidity. If you, a lot of people wanted this NFT index, like, can you get more of it?

• 56:36David Hoffman?

  Right.

• 56:36Speaker 01

  You can't really get more of it, because it's, it's, you know, NFTs are fixed in numbers. So I think that's kind of the main thing is like, does it scale? Can it be something that's really big? That becomes a more challenging question. I think the cardinality of the constituents needs to grow a lot. Like, you can grow the number of NFTs in the, in the set, but you can't grow like each NFT. You can't like clone each NFT, like then it wouldn't be an NFT anymore.

• 57:05David Hoffman?

  Sure.

• 57:06Ryan Sean Adams?

  So there is a question from a Bankless member Discord, asking, any plans to host the site with IPFS? And I want to like dovetail that question with a broader, recent Twitter conversation.

• 57:17David Hoffman?

  I know where this is going.

• 57:19Ryan Sean Adams?

  Where there was some debate, you may have caught it, Felix, other, others may have as well, of whether DeFi projects are decentralized or not. And like, so of course, we've talked about often that, look, decentralization is a, is a spectrum, but there are indeed some projects on Ethereum that are, don't have an off button. They are decentralized. Their founders could not stop them, even if they tried, right? Uniswap is an example of that.

• 57:52Ryan Sean Adams?

  How about Set? Are there still central, are there centralization vectors here? Like, what aspects are not decentralized at this point? What can be turned off?

• 58:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, good question. I think that like in general, there's like this concept of progressive decentralization, which is you're kind of moving towards like full decentralization over time. And I think that in general, projects should minimize amount of governance and central points as much as possible. And I think the first kind of thing that's being done is really the index co-op, where it's the first thing that will be fully kind of decentralized and where everything will be essentially owned by the community. So, you know, people can build other sites and UIs that host and places that acquire the set tokens themselves.

• 58:46Speaker 01

  They're the ones that are going to govern the actual parameters of like how of decisions that end up being made. So it will be totally out of our control, like, kind of like what happens there, and it'll be totally dictated by the community.

• 59:02Ryan Sean Adams?

  Got it. All right. So another, another question, I'm going to reformat a little bit, but what are the most popular sets today? And have any of them surprised you, Felix?

• 59:15Speaker 01

  Um, the most popular one right now is the DeFi Pulse Index.

• 59:21Speaker 01

  You know, that's the one people have loved a lot and, you know, people are very excited about it. And adoption is growing significantly and quickly.

• 59:30Speaker 01

  Other products, for example, were in the past have been some of the trend trading strategies. So the ETH or SI has been quite popular as something, as a tool that people have used to weather the, the, the long, long bear market. One of the social traders, ByteTree, has a pretty popular set. It's called the Bitcoin Demand Set, which will trade based on fundamentals, kind of underlying Bitcoin. And then one that has been growing a lot more is, there's anonymous trader called Crypto Cat. He or she created a set called the Greed and Fear Index. So basically, if the market is very fearful, it would buy.

• 1:00:13Speaker 01

  And if it's, if it's no greed, it would sell. And that's actually one of the better performing ones right now. So that's been getting some inflows.

• 1:00:22Ryan Sean Adams?

  Are we fearful right now?

• 1:00:24Speaker 01

  I'll have to look at the territory. I'm not sure right now.

• 1:00:27Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, it feels a little fearful here lately, at least in the in DeFi world.

• 1:00:33Ryan Sean Adams?

  Felix, do you have any advice for people who are buying sets? And this isn't investment advice, but I'll give you like a scenario. So sometimes I see people in crypto.

• 1:00:46Ryan Sean Adams?

  Buying indexes of some sort or buying RSI strategies, this sort of thing, and then getting upset a couple of weeks later when they don't immediately perform and then going and trading and selling them. Do you have any general advice? Is it important when you're looking at a set to like have a longer term orientation? Because my understanding is the purpose of a money robot to trade for you is so that you don't make dumb human mistakes. But if you then take a whole bunch of these set protocols and then start trading them.

• 1:01:21Ryan Sean Adams?

  Like it doesn't seem like you're doing the same thing, right? And maybe it's even worse. So I don't know if you have any thoughts on that, but I think just people need some practical advice there, I guess.

• 1:01:36Speaker 01

  I mean, at the end of the day, sets are just a tool. They, you know, don't completely solve the problem, but they just it just automates behavior that you would already do yourself. So I mean, that's just clearly a way to think about it like and human behavior can, you know, that's at the end of the day, what it takes for you. So if you. Yeah. So I mean, I think that's the easiest way to think about it. It's just, it's not going to change like who you are or your decisions. And so it's really up to you to decide how you want to operate. It's just, yeah. The automated trading is just things that you would already do yourself, but it makes it a lot easier and it does it automatically for you. Indices just making it a lot easier to get a basket than needing to buy all 10, 11 tokens and pay all the gas and do all the work and all the hassle. So.

• 1:02:21Speaker 01

  And sometimes you're delegating to a third party to provide oracles or signals about how to make adjustments. But at the end of the day, it's kind of your decision to do whatever. And kind of, I guess, the the user is what owns the the the outcome as a result of those decisions.

• 1:02:37David Hoffman?

  A very wise trader once told me that you can copy somebody's strategy, but you can never copy their conviction. And I think when we're talking about money robots, you can definitely not copy a robot's conviction because that's what the the product is, right? That's what the product is. Product is offering. It's offering pure strategy, but you know, you can't get the conviction from it unless you are actually that convicted. Felix, thanks for coming on. And we have two last questions. One, one about sets and one just about a general DeFi prediction. When we close out this year in three months, oh gosh, three months, how much value will be locked in DeFi?

• 1:03:18Speaker 01

  Oh, in DeFi?

• 1:03:22Speaker 01

  And no, no one ever knows these answers, but I'm just gonna say, what is it? Right now it's 11. So let's just say 20 billion.

• 1:03:30David Hoffman?

  20 billion. All right. Nine more billion in three months. I like it. I like it a lot. And one more question with Seth. Are you guys hiring? Any jobs?

• 1:03:39Speaker 01

  We we are. We're hiring. Yeah, we have an open rec for a smart contract engineer, and we're always looking for really talented and smart people. Now, even if we don't have a job description, so get in touch via Twitter or Telegram or Discord. And yeah, we'd love to talk to you.

• 1:03:55David Hoffman?

  Cool. If you guys think that you can provide set value, hit Felix up.

• 1:04:02Ryan Sean Adams?

  Absolutely. Felix, thank you so much for coming on the AMA. It's been great to have you in front of the bankless community. I guess maybe just last thing, anything, anything else special coming up? You guys have been releasing like mad over the past, you know, three weeks or so. Anything special you want to drop that we should be on the lookout for in the next weeks to months?

• 1:04:23Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, I don't. We frankly are just trying to catch up on our right now. So no, we do not have. We don't know what's, yeah, can't say anything there.

• 1:04:36Ryan Sean Adams?

  Very good. Well, thanks for joining us for this AMA. It's been exceptional to have you, Felix. Appreciate it.

• 1:04:42Speaker 01

  Thanks.

• 1:04:44Ryan Sean Adams?

  All right, one last note for the Bankless community. David, you have an event coming up and we want the Bankless community represented to make sure that we get an audience for you. What is that event and what are you going to be talking about?

• 1:04:58David Hoffman?

  Yeah, CoinDesk is throwing an Ethereum event, which is pretty interesting. Usually they've been kind of only a little bit into Ethereum, but now they're going all in. And so CoinDesk Invest Ethereum Economy, October 14th, there's going to be a ton of DeFi people there. And I am speaking about why Ether is such a uniquely compelling asset. So something I feel very equipped to talk about, so that's going to be a fun talk. Vitalik is also speaking there and a bunch of your favorite DeFi protocols are also going to be speaking there as well. DeFi Dad as well, we all love him. So check him out. There is a link in the YouTube show notes and you can also use the code BANKLIST to get $25 off of your ticket if you want to get first row seats for me to shill ETH to CoinDesk.

• 1:05:42Ryan Sean Adams?

  Well, very good. Well, thanks, everyone. This has been another episode of Bankless. Of course, risks and disclaimers. Everything we talked about is risky. This is DeFi. This is not financial advice, of course, but we are glad you are on the Bankless journey with us. It's not for everyone, but thanks for hanging with us. This has been an AMA episode with Bankless.