SERIAL KILLER: The Doodler

In the 1970s, few places on earth were more queer-friendly than San Francisco. But it wasn’t all drag queens and rainbows in the City by the Bay, and when the bodies of gay men started turning up one after another, fear spread like wildfire, and it got harder and harder to distinguish rumor from fact.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Ashley Flowers?

  When you're out in nature, you learn to trust your instincts. You pay attention to the trail, your surroundings, and you stay alert to protect yourself from harm. But what if the biggest threat isn't the environment at all? On Park Predators, host Delia Diambra explores true crime cases that happen in national parks and remote wildernesses, the places we usually think of as safe and peaceful. Each episode reveals what happened and how much more there is beneath the surface. Listen to Park Predators now, wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, crime junkies. I'm your host, Ashley Flowers. And I'm Britt. And the story I have for you today is one that has truly consumed me. In the 1970s, there was a serial killer lurking in San Francisco,

• 0:44Ashley Flowers?

  one who some believe would sketch his victims as a way to lure them in and then attack them in the most brutal ways. And the wild part is that, pretty early on, tons of people were pointing the finger at one man. Even survivors who escaped his clutches picked him out of a lineup. But to date, everyone has been too scared of what would happen to their lives if they cooperated with police. So this man is free, living among us. And though some believe he hasn't been a threat since 1976, when the murders stopped, the current detective thinks that we just might not know the true scope of his crimes.

• 1:29Ashley Flowers?

  This is the story of the Doodler.

• 2:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, I believe there might be a dead person on the beach, right across from your lower seat. Your lower seat. Uh, if you follow the street right down to the water. I was like, oh man, I thought somebody lied in there. But I didn't want to get too close, because you know, anything could happen.

• 2:31Speaker 01

  Okay? Does he want to give a gun to you? No, I don't think that's necessary. I just wanted to let somebody know, maybe he needs help or something. But, um, help is my duty to report. Oh, okay, fine, let's work it out. Okay.

• 2:50Ashley Flowers?

  That call came into San Francisco Dispatch in the early morning hours of January 27th, 1974. And I know that might have been a little hard to make out, but the gist is that the caller found a body on the beach, he didn't want to get too close to it, and the caller would not leave his name. He just thought that maybe the guy on the beach might need some help. Now, within minutes, they had officers descending on the scene, and what they found when they got there was odd. I mean, they quickly spot the body that the caller told them about, but he's not just lying there on the beach, like the caller said. He is fully in the water, about to be pulled out with the tide, so much so that officers have to wade in and drag him back to dry land.

• 3:34Ashley Flowers?

  And by the way, no one is thinking that this guy could have drowned or anything. He has got wounds everywhere. He was a victim of a homicide, no doubt. But here is the even stranger part. At nearly 2:00 a.m., when this call came in, it is very dark out, and there isn't any lighting down by the water. So when they get this body to the shore and have a minute to like, take it all in, they're like, wait, what was this caller even doing out here on the beach in the middle of the night? And how exactly did he spot this body in the pitch dark? Now, it is worth noting that this beach is a common hookup spot. Now, there's no one else around when they get there, but maybe that's why the caller was out there?

• 4:18Ashley Flowers?

  Like TBD who he is, who he was with. But it might be all the reason in the world not to give his name when he called this in. Who knows, right? Like, is he married? Who was he with? Blah, blah, blah. But the caller's name isn't the only thing that they're missing. They don't find a wallet or anything in the victim's clothes that would tell them his name either. I mean, really, they don't find much of anything at all. We asked retired homicide inspector Sergeant Dan Cunningham to describe the scene for us. He still works cold cases for the department, including this one, so it was still pretty fresh in his mind. And he was basically like, uh, what scene? Because duh, the guy was like on the verge of being swallowed up by the Pacific, which doesn't leave investigators with a whole lot to work with.

• 5:03Ashley Flowers?

  In the following days, they put out a couple of media requests for the caller to come forward. Maybe he could shed some more light on the circumstances around all of this. Like, were there other people on the beach? Was he with anyone? When he found the body, did he see anything? But whoever that guy is that called in, he either never gets the message that police are looking for him, which I find hard to believe this was going far and wide at the time, or he is intentionally laying low because he never comes forward.

• 5:30Speaker 02

  So when they get out there, did the guy in the water look like he had just gone in? Or had he been dead for like a while?

• 5:39Ashley Flowers?

  So I kind of think those are two separate questions because I don't think he had been in the water long because he wound up there on account of the tide coming in, not because of like he was killed and put there. As for how long he'd been dead, what I know is that the coroner finds that he was in the early stages of rigor mortis, which like, quick reminder for crime junkies, that tends to begin around two hours post-death, but can take up to six hours.

• 6:03Speaker 02

  Okay, so the TLDR is at least two hours, but possibly more.

• 6:07Ashley Flowers?

  Right. The coroner also determines that their victim, who is a middle-aged white man, died from multiple stab wounds, 17 to be exact, in his chest, torso, front and back. And he went out with a fight based on the defensive wounds he has on his hand. Now, the water washed away a lot in terms of evidence. Not that they even could have done much of anything with it back in 1974. But what it didn't wash away or degrade were his prints. Or at least, that's how I'm assuming they ended up IDing him. It never actually says that specifically, but I know he did have a prior encounter with police. So I'm thinking that maybe they had some kind of record of him.

• 6:50Ashley Flowers?

  And in 74, like, those records were likely just prints. However they do it, within a couple of days, they have determined that he is 50-year-old Gerald Kavanaugh. He's a World War II vet, originally from Canada, who at some point made his way to the US.

• 7:05Speaker 02

  And do we know what he had gotten in trouble with police for? Like, why they had his records?

• 7:09Ashley Flowers?

  I don't know how long this was before his death, but he'd actually been stopped in the same area where he was found before on suspicion of public sex in some nearby restrooms. And if you aren't picking up on it by now, this area where people would come to hook up, like, have sex in restrooms, like, this wasn't like a teenage lover's lane. This was a spot mostly frequented by gay men. We weren't able to speak with any of Gerald's family or loved ones. So I have no idea why he was there, or who he might have been with the night that he died. But I do know that the restrooms where he was suspected to have been having sex before, those were actually locked at night. So if he did go there on his own the night he died, he was likely on the beach when he was killed.

• 7:50Speaker 02

  Which, to me, makes me wonder if maybe Gerald was out there, like, with the caller? Like, they were out on the beach together?

• 7:57Ashley Flowers?

  I don't know, maybe. I mean, the caller could have been out there with someone else as well. But maybe the who doesn't even matter, and he just didn't want anyone to know that he was out there with another man, or to meet a man. Like, again, all just speculation. We may never know, again, because his caller has never come forward. And in 1974, to be truthful, I don't think anyone really wanted to know. To put it bluntly, even in a city like San Francisco that was seen as progressive, 1974 policing didn't treat everyone as equal. And it doesn't seem like they put much effort into solving Gerald's case. Like, sure, a plea or two went out to the public, but if they made any real effort to get to the bottom of things, it's never reported on. And I know from our own reporting

• 8:42Ashley Flowers?

  that the gay community was very much under the impression that not much was being done. So, when a call comes in five months later about a body in Golden Gate Park, Gerald's death, which happened just a mile and a half away, isn't really on anyone's radar. It comes in early the morning of June 25th, and from the looks of things, it's another stabbing. The victim is fully clothed, and he had been stabbed a total of five times, three times in the heart. But, much like with Gerald, no wallet, no ID can be located. So investigators initially suspect a mugging gone wrong, especially because there is a scene here that tells a bit of a story. CNN reports that there is a pool of blood about 10 feet from the body

• 9:26Ashley Flowers?

  with visible drag marks between the two spots, leading them to believe that the man was attacked where the blood is concentrated. Some kind of struggle ensued, and then the killer dragged him to the slightly more hidden spot where his body was found. And it's wild that the body wasn't found sooner, because when they canvassed the area, a resident tells them that she heard a man screaming for help a little before midnight the night before. Sergeant Cunningham told us that she did call this in, although it's hard to tell if there was actually any follow-up, because like I said, the body isn't discovered until close to 7. Now thankfully, investigators ID their victim quickly this time. He's 27-year-old Joseph Stevens, who goes by Jay.

• 10:11Ashley Flowers?

  And it turns out, he's one of the most beloved performers in the city's drag scene. One of his regular gigs is at a club called Finocchio's, as the "master of ceremonies", no less, which has been referred to as like the birthplace of American drag.

• 10:28Speaker 02

  So Jay is like drag royalty?

• 10:31Ashley Flowers?

  Yes, yes. And, okay, here's the thing. By the way, based on the available info, it is possible that Jay would identify as a trans woman today. His younger sister Melissa told the San Francisco Chronicle that there isn't a doubt in her mind that he would have. But, whether it was a sign of the times or Jay was just a cis gay man who loved dressing in drag, the pronouns that he used were he/him, so like that's what I'm still gonna use as well. So investigators quickly find that Jay was last seen leaving a place called The Cabaret Club in North Beach sometime before midnight on the 24th. Now, nothing suggests that he left the club with another person, but where he's found in Golden Gate Park is a hike from North Beach.

• 11:14Ashley Flowers?

  Investigators know that he's got a car, and clearly you would have needed one to get up there as quickly as they assume he did if those screams heard around midnight were him. But his car is nowhere to be found in or near the park. And that's because unbeknownst to these officers at the crime scene, Jay's car was some 45 minutes away, being hauled away after it was involved in a crime at a separate crime scene. Let's face it, if student loans are slowing down your financial goals, it might be time for a smarter strategy. That's where today's sponsor SoFi comes in. SoFi is helping you tackle student debt by refinancing your loans with flexible monthly payments that fit your budget.

• 11:58Ashley Flowers?

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• 12:48Speaker 02

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• 13:48Ashley Flowers?

  So, about two hours before Jay's body was discovered, an officer patrolling a neighborhood about 45 minutes away in a city called Hayward noticed a blue Toyota acting kind of sus. There had been a string of sexual assault in the area recently, so the cop figured he should like, check this out. But when he initiated a traffic stop, the Toyota peeled off and it turned into a whole high-speed chase situation. But God bless dumb criminals, right? Because the driver raced over a set of railroad tracks and not at a railroad crossing? And crashed right into a house on the other side? Now, the driver, a blonde 20-something, jumped out of the car, fled on foot, and got away. But when police ran the car's place and found that it was registered to Jay,

• 14:33Ashley Flowers?

  they eventually touched base with SFPD, who immediately think that they've got their killer, or at least a description of their killer. Now, I don't have the exact, like, play-by-play, but one way or another, the blonde guy ends up getting ID'd and located. And dude is shocked to learn that the car he'd crashed belonged to a homicide victim. He denies any involvement in Jay's death, swearing up and down that he just lifted the car from where it was parked at Golden Gate Park. And as unbelievable as I know that sounds, his story actually checks out.

• 15:06Speaker 02

  Seriously?

• 15:07Ashley Flowers?

  He's literally just like the world's unluckiest car thief. Which is a bummer for investigators, because it means that their promising early lead turns into a dead end real fast. And with nothing else to go on, and knowing they weren't making any connections to a larger pattern of crimes yet, it kind of feels like everyone just shrugged their shoulders and said like, "Oh well, we tried." Now, our team talked to Ron Huberman, who was the first openly gay investigator with the San Francisco DA's office in the 70s. And as you can imagine, he had unique insight into the tense dynamic between the gay community and law enforcement at the time. And he said, "The simplest way to put it was that there was a ton of hate crimes happening at the time.

• 15:52Ashley Flowers?

  The murders, he said, were like, next level. But what he saw from the inside is that police just did not care." He also emphasized the level of tension, animosity even, that existed between SFPD and the queer community at the time. Because you've got to keep in mind that in 1970 San Francisco, morality laws were enforced. Cops posed as gay men at the time to entrap actual gay men, and queer crime victims are liable to find themselves in cuffs if they go to law enforcement for help. I mean, that same year, 1974, a gay man settled a lawsuit against SFPD for nearly a quarter of a million dollars, which would be like 1.5 million today,

• 16:34Ashley Flowers?

  after police pulled him from a car and beat him to the point of having permanent brain damage.

• 16:38Speaker 02

  And how was Ron even out at this time?

• 16:41Ashley Flowers?

  I had the same question. So, apparently, and this is super interesting, it had to do with the election of a DA, who both sincerely wanted to integrate the gay community into mainstream, and maybe saw the political benefit of doing so. And Ron told us that things at the police academy were kind of tense at first, but he was able to win some trainees over with a little humor, which I think came easy to Ron. I mean, okay, so literally his nickname in the gay community was Daddy Cop, which obviously was like tongue in chief because like, obviously the guy didn't take himself too seriously. But anyways, that was my long-winded way of emphasizing that these cases were kind of thrown to the side and thought to be

• 17:23Ashley Flowers?

  one-offs. No one was thinking serial killer. I don't even know that serial killer was a thing that, you know, we had a word for at the time. But that changes 12 days after Jay's murder. That's when another man is found deceased on the beach really close to where Gerald had been found. This murder is especially brutal. The victim is another white man on the younger side like Jay, and he was nearly decapitated. Sergeant Cunningham told us one of the original investigators said it was probably the worst crime scene he'd ever worked. And that dude worked the Zodiac Investigation.

• 18:00Speaker 02

  Whoa.

• 18:01Ashley Flowers?

  This young man was found fully clothed, but yet again, no wallet, no ID. So it takes two weeks to ID him as a 31-year-old German national named Klaus Christman. Klaus, investigators learn, has a family back home in Germany, like a wife and two kids. But he'd come to the US a few months back and has been staying with friends, this American couple who lived in the Castro, which I think is like, like a suburb of San Francisco.

• 18:27Speaker 02

  It's like an area of San Francisco that in the 70s had a really vibrant progressive culture.

• 18:31Ashley Flowers?

  Okay, got it. So he's become something of a regular at the city's gay bars. Now, investigators determined that one of those bars is actually the last place he was seen. Witnesses say he left alone at around 2:00 AM. And even though Sergeant Cunningham told us that investigators found some of the men Klaus was known to have been involved with, all of them quickly get ruled out. So when the culprit doesn't fall into their laps quickly, police move on to other cases. Though, there is finally chatter amongst them that these were maybe more than just one-offs. I mean, there's clearly a pattern between Gerald and Jay and Klaus.

• 19:12Ashley Flowers?

  But aside from each of them being part of the queer community, like, there were no other connections. And no task force or anything was being put together to try and find one. And they weren't even really alerting the public to the threat of a serial killer. But even though they weren't announcing it, I mean, this is a community that already has a target on their backs. They are quick to pay attention and spread the word amongst themselves. And soon, rumors start running rampant about a possible serial killer in their midst. And everyone's waiting for the next shoe to drop. But it doesn't. Weeks go by without another murder, and then months.

• 19:53Ashley Flowers?

  And as they inch up on the one-year mark from the last murder, I imagine people's guards are down. And maybe that is what allowed for the next murder to happen. On May 12th, 1975, SFPD is alerted to the discovery of another body on the beach. That morning, a hiker finds a set of bloody drag marks that leads to the body of a young man. Now, this time, it doesn't take police long to catch on. He has all the same hallmarks of all the previous murders. And they know in that moment that their killer is still out there, and he has no intention of stopping. So maybe now's the time to put a little more effort into finding him before he can kill again.

• 20:35Speaker 02

  Which means it's task force time.

• 20:38Ashley Flowers?

  Their version, maybe. So here's something wild I just learned. The San Francisco Chronicle reports that in the 1970s, homicide cases were worked by shift? So instead of, listen, instead of being assigned to a specific, like, one homicide is assigned to a specific investigator. What they did was like, whoever was on shift would work it, and then like, pass it off to the next guy when it was his turn.

• 21:05Speaker 02

  What?

• 21:06Ashley Flowers?

  Dude, I know. Like, no wonder this was a serial killer's heyday. My god.

• 21:11Speaker 02

  That's so inefficient. Like, everyone knows, like, a tiny little piece of one case that just keeps getting, like, hot potatoed around to investigators.

• 21:19Ashley Flowers?

  I know. Like, it makes no sense. So, literally, no one has any idea what's going on, who has what case, what he's done, what still needs to be worked on.

• 21:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:28Ashley Flowers?

  It is a hot mess. That is especially messy when you have multiple cases that are connected. So, the higher-ups decide, maybe we should assign this newest case and the stalled investigations to a dedicated team of homicide inspectors. Like, right.

• 21:46Speaker 02

  Great idea, actually.

• 21:48Ashley Flowers?

  So, this isn't like a task force like you're thinking, where it's like multi-agency or whatever.

• 21:53Speaker 02

  But for this system, it's kind of a task force.

• 21:55Ashley Flowers?

  And they do get two of SFPD's finest. These guys have a track record, second to none, and, like, listen, if this was a movie, like, cue, slow-mo, 70s title track, where they, like, walk, like, head-on into frame, because the way that these guys are talked about, they are kind of legends in their own time. And they're fondly known as the Soul Brothers.

• 22:17Speaker 02

  So iconic.

• 22:17Ashley Flowers?

  I know. Their names are Rotaya Guilford and Earl Sanders. And Inspectors Guilford and Sanders are SFPD's first and second black homicide investigators. And it's hard to overstate just how radically they changed the course of the investigation. But first things first, they have to ID the most recent victim.

• 22:38Speaker 02

  I assume no ID on the body.

• 22:39Ashley Flowers?

  Right. Same as the others. But the victim, they find out, is a registered nurse, so his prints are on file with the State Board of Nursing. So somehow they get connected to those. And they find out he's 32-year-old Frederick Capin. Like the others, Frederick was stabbed to death 16 times in total, the fatal wounds piercing his heart. Judging by the drag marks and the dried blood the coroner notes on the soles of his shoes, he went down fighting. Now what they find out is Frederick was last seen alive at a gay bar the night before his body was discovered. Actually, the same one Klaus was last seen at, this place called Bojangles.

• 23:17Speaker 02

  Did they ever find out where Gerald was last seen? Because I feel like that's the pattern here. The rest of them were all seen at like a bar or nightclub.

• 23:25Ashley Flowers?

  So they're not sure where he last was. I think everyone's guess is that he was probably out on the town before his death too, maybe? So if this is the pattern, Guilford and Sanders decide to meet the gay community where they're at.

• 23:40Speaker 02

  At the gay bars.

• 23:41Ashley Flowers?

  Right. Now, these guys don't necessarily have the community's trust from day one, as you can imagine, but they're willing to work for it. And what do you know? A little respect and kindness goes a long way. And before long, they are hearing whispers of a rumor that has been making its way through the scene. Supposedly, there is a guy who likes to camp out at gay bars with a sketchbook in hand. And while everyone else makes merry around him, he quietly sketches the faces of other bar patrons. And word has it that this guy is like, pretty good at what he does. Now, it doesn't seem like anyone is saying, "He did it," or "They saw him with the men," or "Drawing the men," or anything like that, but this guy has just been standing out for

• 24:24Ashley Flowers?

  about as long as the murders have been happening. But before they can even begin to track down a name for this artist, it happens again. Let's face it, if student loans are slowing down your financial goals, it might be time for a smarter strategy. That's where today's sponsor, SoFi, comes in. SoFi is helping you tackle student debt by refinancing your loans with flexible monthly payments that fit your budget. We're talking about the potential to lower your interest rate, reduce your monthly payment, or even pay off your loan sooner, depending on the term you choose. You can also consolidate your student loans into one simple monthly payment, so you could save more each month and work towards achieving your long-term financial ambitions. SoFi offers competitive, fixed and variable rates and no origination fees, prepayment

• 25:08Ashley Flowers?

  fees, or late fees required. It takes just two minutes to check your rate with SoFi, and they have already helped over 500,000 members refinance more than $50 billion in student loans. Visit sofi.com/crimejunkie to see how much you can save. That's sofi.com/crimejunkie and start making smarter money moves with SoFi. SoFi's student loans are originated by SoFi Bank, N.A., member FDIC. Additional terms and conditions apply. NMLS 696891.

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• 26:23Ashley Flowers?

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• 26:52Ashley Flowers?

  On June 4, 1975, a man's badly decomposed body is discovered hidden in some bushes near the Lincoln Park Golf Course. Like the others, he's clothed, though his pants are unzipped. And again, seemingly no ID. So all the signs are there, and the case goes right to Guilford and Sanders. But this one's gonna be different than all the rest. I mean, normally, they're on a scene within hours of a murder. Like, things are fresh. But not this time. The coroner says that this man had been out there anywhere from 10 days to a month. And "badly decomposed" might have been an understatement because Sergeant Cunningham told us that the remains are actually "mummified", which basically throws their normal form of IDing the victim out the window.

• 27:37Ashley Flowers?

  No usable prints. Somehow, they do eventually ID him, though. He's Harold Goldberg, a 66-year-old sailor and naturalized US citizen originally from Sweden. And then in July, another man is attacked. But he is alive when he stumbles into a local ER pleading for help. Now dude is drenched in blood and he's saying that he's been stabbed. And though he does want immediate medical help, make no mistake, he does not want the police involved. Like does not want to file a report. He is adamant that he does not want a report filed, like he will not cooperate if one is filed.

• 28:18Speaker 02

  Is he afraid of being outed?

• 28:20Ashley Flowers?

  Mm-hmm. He's a European diplomat and San Francisco is where he was stationed for his job. I actually don't know his name because that's never been released, so I'm just gonna refer to him as the diplomat. But they get his story nonetheless. I mean, again, he, I don't know how they convince him, but they do. And his story is a doozy. He says that he was by himself in a diner called The Truck Stop. It's like 2:00 a.m. A nearby gay bar called The Rear End had just closed its doors. And he noticed a guy sitting alone sketching animals on a napkin. And these sketches were pretty impressive. By total coincidence, the diplomat has some art training, so they like strike up a little conversation about their shared hobby.

• 29:04Ashley Flowers?

  And the guy doing the sketches was a young black guy, good-looking, total like artist vibes, according to Ron Huberman. And the diplomat was intrigued when he mentioned that he was studying to be a cartoonist. So they're chatting, they hit it off. And when the diplomat asks if he wanted to head back to his apartment, maybe for a nightcap, whatever, the artist accepted the invite. So like, so far, so good, right? But when they got there, things got real weird, real fast. It started when the artist asked to use the bathroom. The diplomat was like, sure, no problem. So the artist goes in, but then the guy like wouldn't come out. Sergeant Cunningham told us that after so long, the diplomat was knocking on the door,

• 29:49Ashley Flowers?

  I mean, more than once, asking if he was okay. About 30 minutes later, as the diplomat was standing with his back to the bathroom door, all of a sudden it swings open, the artist growled something along the lines of, "You guys are all alike," and then he plunged a steak knife into the diplomat's back. Now, the diplomat started fighting back, but the artist managed to stab him six times before the knife broke off in his body, and thank God it did because only then did the artist run out the front door, allowing the diplomat to barely escape with his life. And his injuries are no joke. I mean, the poor guy is hospitalized for weeks.

• 30:31Ashley Flowers?

  And this, by the way, is when their killer earns the nickname "The Doodler." Supposedly Guilford and Sanders come up with it, although it's possible they heard it from the people in the community. So the diplomat is recovering, and then, fast forward two weeks later, Guilford and Sanders learned that another man has just survived an attack by someone he'd taken home. And take a wild guess where that guy lives. Same apartment building, on the same floor as the diplomat.

• 31:03Speaker 02

  What?

• 31:03Ashley Flowers?

  Yet they don't know each other, but I mean, like, they're so close they could borrow a cup of sugar.

• 31:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:09Ashley Flowers?

  This second attack isn't exactly the same as the diplomat, so this guy had been tied up, possibly voluntarily, when the guy that he brought home started beating the crap out of him. Thankfully, the attacker got spooked when neighbors heard screaming and started pounding on the walls.

• 31:25Speaker 02

  And how do we know it was the same guy?

• 31:27Ashley Flowers?

  Well, because the victim told police what he said as he started attacking him.

• 31:32Speaker 02

  "All you guys are alike."

• 31:33Ashley Flowers?

  Yep. But, like the diplomat, this victim wants nothing to do with an investigation or an eventual prosecution, like, he does not want to be outed. And though he also says his attacker was a black man in his early twenties, Guilford and Sanders realize that he'd been pretty intoxicated and probably wouldn't be of much use with a sketch artist. But they think the diplomat would be. Partly, Sergeant Cunningham told us, because he thinks he and his attacker were together for a while, partly because he was way less intoxicated, and partly because of his artistic training. So they go to him and they promise to protect his identity, asking him to please just spend a few hours with their sketch artist.

• 32:18Ashley Flowers?

  He is their only real shot at getting this guy before he strikes again. But every time they ask, his answer is no, no, no, no, no, no. And then suddenly he says, fine, but that's all. Once they have their composite, stopping the guy is on them and they're going to have to do it without his help. Which like, can you imagine like living in a world where like your own safety could be at risk, but like coming out and like just saying who you are is like scarier?

• 32:46Speaker 02

  Is more risky.

• 32:47Ashley Flowers?

  Like freaking terrifying. Guilford and Sanders jump at this proposal. And once the composite sketch is released in October, the tips start pouring in. The first big one is called in by an anonymous woman who recognizes the guy in the sketch. She says, he lives in the East Bay and his name is such and such. And I'm only being vague because I couldn't let the name slip if I wanted to. It has never been released on or off the record. I mean, the one thing I will say about this investigation is like they truly have like kept identities under wraps for decades. It's almost like very impressive if I didn't want to know so bad. Now, what I do know is that it is apparently a common name. So initially the tip isn't super useful.

• 33:30Ashley Flowers?

  Although to be perfectly honest, I don't even think it reaches Guilford and Sanders.

• 33:35Speaker 02

  Like it just gets lost in the shuffle?

• 33:36Ashley Flowers?

  I think so because the woman comes back. Like it pisses her off because like by 10 days go by, she hasn't gotten contacted. She feels like nothing is happening. So she's like, my tip must not have been taken seriously. So she calls again mad. And this time she not only gives his name, but she gives his address, his age, his freaking license plate number.

• 33:57Speaker 02

  Not all heroes wear capes.

• 33:59Ashley Flowers?

  Truly. So this second message does reach Guilford and Sanders, who put the guy under immediate surveillance. They don't approach him just yet. Instead, they start putting together a profile, which seems like the right move, I think. And here's where things get wild.

• 34:19Ashley Flowers?

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• 35:02Ashley Flowers?

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• 35:22Ashley Flowers?

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• 36:07Ashley Flowers?

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• 36:36Ashley Flowers?

  Soon, another tip comes in about this same guy. But your brain is gonna explode when I tell you who calls this one in. I mean, I don't know the lady's name. I can't tell you who she is exactly, but I can tell you her profession. She is a secretary at Highland Hospital in the East Bay. Not for like, a surgeon or whatever, for a psychiatrist. If she's to be believed, her boss treats the guy that Guilford and Sanders have under surveillance. And her boss treats him for issues relating to his inability to cope with his same-sex attractions. Oh, and spoiler alert, he straight up confessed to the murders in his sessions with the doc. Which like, what? I know.

• 37:21Ashley Flowers?

  Three days later, that doctor calls in and he's like, yeah, so you know that thing my secretary said? It's completely true. My patient, so-and-so, whoever he is, is the killer everyone is calling the doodler.

• 37:33Speaker 02

  So, he's not just saying that his patient confessed? He's saying that he believes that confession?

• 37:39Ashley Flowers?

  Beyond a shadow of a doubt. Like, this is your guy, I know this is your guy for a fact.

• 37:43Speaker 02

  I assume with him being called the doodler, the public knows about the sketches too, right?

• 37:49Ashley Flowers?

  Yeah, they do by this point.

• 37:50Speaker 02

  And this guy is like, a good artist too, that they're calling in about?

• 37:55Ashley Flowers?

  Yes, question mark? So here's the thing, outside of the reporting on the diplomats' interaction with him, where he said like, yes, he was, answers on that are kinda hard to come by. Like, I can't find a solid answer on like, was this guy really a cartoonist? Was it like, I don't know. Now, before long, Guilford and Sanders decide it's time to confront this guy that they've been watching. And so in January of 1976, they bring him in for questioning. He comes in voluntarily, doesn't even bring a lawyer. And while he denies being the doodler, he doesn't deny everything. Guilford tells the San Francisco Chronicle, quote, "He said he's reformed. He said he'd had problems with his sexual identity since he was 13,

• 38:40Ashley Flowers?

  and had homosexual experiences, had experimented with it. But he said his sessions with the psychiatrist had cured him," end quote. Which sounds conversion therapy to me, but like, I could be wrong. Either way, this guy's description of himself couldn't fit the Pert profile more closely, which is of someone who is quiet, intelligent, middle-class, and absolutely drowning in self-loathing over his attraction to men, which he probably acts on before lashing out violently with a kind of misdirected self-hatred. And here's where things get really frustrating. Even though we have survivors, and even though they have a suspect,

• 39:25Ashley Flowers?

  the survivors that they have won't cooperate to ID him as their attacker. They even have found a third survivor by this point, but he's a super-famous actor who, surprise, surprise, wants nothing to do with the case. And this guy wasn't actually physically attacked. Rather, he ended the encounter, which was like a potential hookup, when a knife fell out of the guy's pocket.

• 39:49Speaker 02

  And are you saying that they won't even like come in and ID the guy? Or they just won't cooperate if slash when it comes to testifying?

• 39:58Ashley Flowers?

  The latter, well, maybe a little of the former. I know the diplomat at one point at least looks at a lineup. I don't know about the other guys. And when they finally convince him to do that, he does pick their guy out as the doodler. But he still won't be caught dead in a courtroom saying that that's the man he brought back to his apartment. And that's why this case, solved in everything but name, as far as Guilford and Sanders are concerned, goes cold. Ice cold for the next four decades. And it seems that their suspect, if their suspect is their guy, gets like cold feet or whatever, once he knows that the cops are on to him. Because the doodler killings in San Francisco just stop,

• 40:42Ashley Flowers?

  and they never resume again in all that time. It wasn't until 2018 that Sergeant Cunningham picks the investigation back up and started working it with another recently-retired investigator working cold cases. This guy's name is Dan Dedet. So they have to go back and start from scratch because in the four decades that the case sat untouched, the file, you know, got moved around, it got misplaced, things got separated and whatnot. So the records they have are fragmented, they're incomplete. And I think Sergeant Cunningham almost views this as a blessing and a curse like kind of thing because like they're almost forced to start from square one. And I said blessing

• 41:22Ashley Flowers?

  because starting from square one leads them to some surprising conclusions. Take this. The number of Doodler victims is pretty well settled by this point, right? There are five deceased victims and three survivors, eight people total. But they decide, you know what? We should look at all of the cold case homicides of gay men from 74 and 75, eventually concluding that there was actually a ninth Doodler victim. His name was Warren Andrews. And at first glance, his case doesn't have much in common with the others. Warren was found barely clinging to life on April 27th of 1975 at this cliff overlooking the ocean called Land's End.

• 42:04Ashley Flowers?

  But he wasn't stabbed like the others. He was beaten brutally with a rock and a tree branch. And even though he was found quickly, he was in terrible shape. He was in a coma for a couple of months and then eventually passed away.

• 42:16Speaker 02

  So then what's the connection?

• 42:19Ashley Flowers?

  I think mostly like who he was and the location where he was found. See, Warren is thought to have been gay and Land's End is another remote hookup spot. It's also just a mile from where Harold Goldberg was found in a similar setting. And it's the cliffs that really gets Sergeant Cunningham's wheels spinning. It seems obvious to him that whatever happened there, it didn't go down the way the killer wanted it to. It was especially messy. The victim was still alive when he was found and the weapons the killer used seemed improvised.

• 42:51Speaker 02

  Okay, can you just put this a little bit in context for me? When Warren is attacked in April of 75-

• 42:58Ashley Flowers?

  Oh, so you have Gerald, who was the first victim, found on the beach in the water. Then you have Jay, the second victim. Then Klaus is the third. Then there was that like almost 10-month break where nothing happened. This attack on Warren was April of 75 and then May 75 was Frederick and June 75 was Harold.

• 43:18Speaker 02

  Got it. I wonder if it was after Harold because that's when he got the string of other victims that start surviving.

• 43:27Ashley Flowers?

  So the diplomat and the other guy who lived in his building, yes. But best I can tell, the super famous actor guy was maybe in May, although no one seems to like really know that for sure. So yeah, I don't know if his like MO is changing or if you like, because he seems like right, like it was like, usually you see the opposite.

• 43:44Speaker 02

  It's like de-escalating almost.

• 43:46Ashley Flowers?

  Yeah, or he's just like, I don't know if he's just like losing control and he, whatever it is. Anyways, they're thinking that looking at the scene where Warren was found, it wouldn't be hard to imagine things going awry. Like what if the killer had intended to stab him like the others, but he somehow lost his knife in a struggle? Or who knows? And Sergeant Cunningham told us, it's easy to imagine the knife getting like knocked over the cliff's edge, forcing him to like think on his feet. So Cunningham's getting his ducks in a row, right? Like setting the record straight. And as he's getting things organized, him and his partner also find that there are some items that can be sent out for testing, so they do that. Then they have the diplomats composite from all those years ago, age progressed.

• 44:31Ashley Flowers?

  They release that to the public, along with that weird 911 call that we played at the beginning of the episode. All that comes out in February of 2019. They're hoping that someone is going to recognize that voice, because up until that point, they had not released the call.

• 44:46Speaker 02

  So why are they even doing all this? Like what exactly are they looking for?

• 44:49Ashley Flowers?

  Well, I think with the caller, like there are a couple of possibilities. Like it could be, I mean, at minimum, a really important witness. But as Detective Cunningham told us, I mean, he also very well could be the killer, which would actually make a whole lot of sense in terms of how the caller even came across that body in the dark, on a deserted beach at 2:00 AM. And Detective Cunningham wants to know the freaking answer. I mean, I haven't mentioned this yet, but he has already interviewed our unnamed suspect person of interest. He did that back in 2018. Because dude's still alive, obviously, and living in the East Bay now as an out gay man.

• 45:31Ashley Flowers?

  But he told Sergeant Cunningham the same thing he told Guilford and Sanders all those years ago. He's not the Doodler. The end. Even though the guy is a dead ringer for the age-progresst composite. Now, DNA might end up doing the trick and tie him to the crimes. That would be great. But they don't want to put all their eggs in one basket. I mean, who knows if they will even get a usable profile from the evidence they sent off. So they decide to think outside the box a little bit. Like, if they can't use any of the survivors, they decide, maybe they can go back to that psychiatrist and start there.

• 46:07Speaker 02

  Okay, yeah, I was kind of wondering about that. Like, he's saying this guy confessed to him, he believes the confession, like, dude, I don't know. Let's run with that.

• 46:16Ashley Flowers?

  I don't know why they couldn't use him in '74. I don't know if it was like, I don't even think HIPAA was like a thing. And obviously, they're like coming to police and telling him. I don't know. But now, they want to start with the psychiatrist. Again, I don't know that they're gonna like use him in court necessarily, but they're like-

• 46:29Speaker 02

  It's a good jumping off point.

• 46:30Ashley Flowers?

  Let's go to him. Except, there is a huge problem.

• 46:33Speaker 02

  Of course there is.

• 46:34Ashley Flowers?

  From their files, the only name they can find for the psychiatrist is a note like scratched by Guilford that says, "Dr. Priest Psych = C Highland Hospital."

• 46:45Speaker 02

  Cool.

• 46:46Ashley Flowers?

  And for the life of them, they cannot find any record of there being a Dr. Priest who practiced psychiatry at Highland Hospital in the 70s. So it's like this doctor never even existed.

• 46:59Speaker 02

  I mean, TBD records in the 70s, plus like maybe he's already passed away? I mean, how old was he back then?

• 47:07Ashley Flowers?

  Here's the thing, it's not like they can't just find someone currently working there in 2019 when they go looking. Like, the hospital has no record of this guy at all, which is like wild to me.

• 47:19Speaker 02

  Was there a chance the name was wrong? Like, was it like a visiting doctor, like a temp, a sub?

• 47:23Ashley Flowers?

  They have a lower lift idea first that also wouldn't require a warrant, right?

• 47:28Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 47:29Ashley Flowers?

  So they're gonna ask the public for help.

• 47:30Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 47:31Ashley Flowers?

  At the beginning of 2019, SFPD announces a $100,000 reward for information leading to the Doodler's arrest. And they also ask the public for their help in locating this elusive Dr. Priest. Spoiler alert, though, no dice. But it's not a dead end altogether. See, over the years Cunningham and Dedet worked hand in hand with a reporter from the San Francisco Chronicle. And in 2021, this reporter and his P I. think that they might have solved the puzzle of Dr. Priest. They come across the name of a Dr. Howard Priest, P R E E C E, who practiced psychiatry at Highland Hospital in the 70s. And though Dr.

• 48:14Ashley Flowers?

  Priest passed away in 2005, his daughter tells them, yeah, this dudler guy is exactly the sort of patient her dad would have treated. Sadly, she doesn't have any of his old records anymore, nor does she know where they could be if they even still exist. Now Cunningham eventually asks a court to order Highland Hospital to release Dr. Priest's records from way back when, but the judge denies the request citing the fact that there is no evidence that the patient still poses a threat to the public. Says there's no indication that he's posed a threat since 1976, which like, again, I don't know the rules around this, but to me it is like wild.

• 48:58Speaker 02

  Like, I get maybe not a threat to the public, but do we not care about justice for his victims?

• 49:05Ashley Flowers?

  That's what I'm saying, like, I don't know what rule we're following here.

• 49:06Speaker 02

  Those are like two different things I understand, but let's address at least one of them?

• 49:10Ashley Flowers?

  Okay, but also, what if everyone's wrong? What if he has posed a threat since 1976? See, one of the things Cunningham learns about his guy is that he actually skipped town way back in 76 and spent some time on the road, moving from place to place. So, according to the San Francisco Chronicle, Cunningham researches whether there were any other similar crimes in the years after 76 anywhere else. And wouldn't you know it, there were. Now, it's not totally clear, but Cunningham said that he is in touch with various other law enforcement entities about it. And he's also submitted more items for forensic testing, though so far, no one has been able

• 49:54Ashley Flowers?

  to isolate a profile other than the victims, or whatever victim was related to that item. And it's mostly because their deaths were just, like, so bloody. But he emphasized to our reporter that he is still got high hopes on the DNA front. And there's one more conclusion that Cunningham has come to about this case that I think is wild. He's not convinced that the Doodler actually did so much doodling.

• 50:21Speaker 02

  Ashley, we're calling him the Doodler.

• 50:23Ashley Flowers?

  I know. As far as he's concerned, that trope is more lore than fact, springing from the diplomat story about his attacker sketching animals. And then it just kind of, like, took on a life of its own. And listen, I don't know where I kind of fall on this, because Guilford and Sanders certainly thought the doodling angle was accurate. And Ron Hooperman, like Daddy Cop, working the case for the DA's office, with his own deep ties to the gay community, he remains convinced of it to this day. Ron told us that he talked to multiple people with firsthand accounts of this guy sketching men in bars and using the sketches to hit on them. And he also told us that in the seven or eight years since the case has been reopened, he hasn't been contacted, which I thought was kind of surprising.

• 51:07Ashley Flowers?

  Like, he was someone who was boots on the ground at the time and was part of the community being targeted, so I don't know quite what to make of that. But whether the Doodler actually did all that much doodling, the fact remains that six men were brutally slain in 1974 and 75. And that's six that we know of. There is a strong person of interest in this case, and the families of the victims still haven't received justice. These murders had ripple effects of a magnitude that is hard to comprehend. I mean, take Jay's family, for instance. His murder caused one of his sisters to have a full-blown psychotic break. She was convinced that his death had unleashed evil spirits somehow, and just three months

• 51:50Ashley Flowers?

  later, she attacked their mother and their other sister, Melissa. And their mother was killed and dismembered.

• 51:56Speaker 02

  Oh, my God.

• 51:57Ashley Flowers?

  And Melissa just barely survived.

• 51:59Speaker 02

  I mean, one could even say that they're like the second wave of victims of the Doodler, you know?

• 52:05Ashley Flowers?

  I mean, I think so. That's what I said when you say he's not like a threat to anyone, like.

• 52:08Speaker 02

  It's like he's not a threat to the community that he was a threat to at the time.

• 52:12Ashley Flowers?

  But what he did, like, it still continues.

• 52:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:15Ashley Flowers?

  And I think I want to close out with a quote from Frederick Capen's niece. Frederick was a talented artist and a dedicated nurse, providing care to his community day in and day out. He was also a war hero, having saved the lives of four Marines in Vietnam. And his niece said in a podcast series by the San Francisco Chronicle, quote, "I just want my uncle to be remembered for the good he did and not to be remembered for the circumstances under which he was killed. I think all of the victims deserve that." It has been 50 years since the Doodler murders, and time for justice is running out. San Francisco Police Department is still offering that reward, which has been raised

• 52:58Ashley Flowers?

  to $250,000, and that's for anyone who can help them solve these cases once and for all. So if that is you, you can call their 24-hour tip line at 415-575-4444, or text them at tip411, and you can remain anonymous.

• 53:33Ashley Flowers?

  You can find all the source material for this episode on our website, crimejunkiepodcast.com.

• 53:38Speaker 02

  And you can follow us on Instagram at @crimejunkiepodcast.

• 53:41Ashley Flowers?

  We will be back next week with a brand new episode, but don't leave us. Stick around, we have got another segment of the good.

• 54:09Ashley Flowers?

  All right, Britt, so in light of Mother's Day being this month, I heard you got a special good that has to do with Mother's Day. I haven't seen it yet.

• 54:15Speaker 02

  Yes, I think you're gonna love this one. This is from Joy. "Hi ladies, story time. I live in central Arkansas. Last year, we had a 14-year-old girl who ran away from home in our community. A very long and interesting story, but anyway, here's what I want people to know."

• 54:31Ashley Flowers?

  She doesn't know us. We need the long and interesting story. But anyway.

• 54:35Speaker 02

  Details, but anyway, moving right along. "Community involvement lesson number one. The community became aware that she was missing, but the local police were not doing much and didn't consider her missing because it was clear she left on her own. The mama bears in our community called BS. They organized, hung banners, created social media feeds, contacted organizations, contacted media outlets, hit the streets with flyers, and pressured the police. Through community pressure, the police finally stepped up and started really looking for her and participating in finding her. Community involvement lesson two. Because the mama bears were able to get her photo spread countrywide, and the crime junkies of the world are awesome, a librarian hundreds of miles away in another state

• 55:20Speaker 02

  was able to recognize her from the missing child post and called police. We got her back safe and sound. She'd been gone for weeks, had hopped a train, and was so far away.

• 55:32Ashley Flowers?

  Oh my god.

• 55:32Speaker 02

  But people paid attention, cared, and got involved. Community involvement lesson three. Because of the community's vocal unwillingness to accept that a child that runs away shouldn't be looked for, the local police have been much more active in the search for missing quote-unquote runaway teens. And the even better news is that it has spread through the entire central Arkansas area. I now see all of our regional police stations posting about and investigating runaway cases and treating these kids as missing. They don't want to face the wrath of the mama bears."

• 56:07Ashley Flowers?

  I knew. Are they starting a club? Can I join?

• 56:10Speaker 02

  I know. Anyway. Be weird, be rude, save lives, which I think-

• 56:16Ashley Flowers?

  That was beautiful.

• 56:17Speaker 02

  Is amazing. Isn't that so, like-

• 56:20Ashley Flowers?

  Full body chills.

• 56:20Speaker 02

  I love that one.

• 56:21Ashley Flowers?

  I kinda wanna twerk, and I don't know why. That's my response.

• 56:29Ashley Flowers?

  Crime Junkie is an AudioChuck production. So, what do you think Chuck? Do you approve?

• 56:40Speaker 02

  Growing up in a small town, I know how deeply a crime can shake a local community. And I know that what makes the headlines is rarely the full story. That's what Kylie Lowe explores on her show Dark Down East. She digs into cases from Maine and New England using original reporting, archival records, and conversations with the people who knew them best. Each episode takes you inside the communities these stories shaped, and the families who never stop searching for answers. Listen to Dark Down East wherever you get your podcasts.

• 57:07Speaker 03

  When the nights grow longer, the shadows start to stir. And that can only mean one thing. Full Body Chills is back. This season, step inside original tales where every doorway leads somewhere darker, every stranger carries a secret, and nothing is ever quite what it seems. Each story takes you somewhere new, but be careful. You never know what might follow you home. So gather around, listen close, and stream Full Body Chills wherever you get your podcasts.