The Aspire Playbook: Mark Cuban’s Day-1 Blueprint for Startup Success and How AI is Changing Entrepreneurship Forever

Why do most startups fail, and how can you avoid it? In this episode of the Aspire podcast, Mark Cuban breaks down exactly what new founders get wrong, how to take an idea from nothing to something, and the critical Day 1 steps every entrepreneur must get right. He also explains why mastering AI isn’t optional anymore and how it’s completely changing how businesses are built. Whether you’re just starting out or scaling up, Mark offers raw, tactical advice on sales, mindset, money, and how to build a business that works.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:09Emma Grede?

  Today's guest is a true icon of modern entrepreneurship, but not just for the reasons you think. You know Mark Cuban as the billionaire tech founder, bold investor and owner of the Dallas Mavericks and a beloved voice on Shark Tank for over 15 seasons. But he's also someone who's always been laser focused on how things work, how to fix what's broken and how to create better from the ground up. Mark's hustle began selling garbage bags at just 12 years old and he worked his way to a $5.7 billion exit. He spent decades building businesses, investing in founders, disrupting everything from media to medicine, most recently founding Cost Plus Drugs to challenge Big Pharma and bring real transparency to healthcare. But now he stepped off the Shark Tank stage

• 0:54Emma Grede?

  and he sold his controlling stakes in the Mavs, rethinking what success, legacy and time actually mean. In this conversation, we go all the way back to his childhood, his first big business win and the mindset that shaped him. We talk about what it really takes to start a business from day one, the myths about entrepreneurship and what he's teaching his three kids about ambition, money and meaning.

• 1:26Emma Grede?

  All right, Mark, I'm so happy to have you here.

• 1:28Speaker 01

  Thanks for having me. I'm excited.

• 1:30Emma Grede?

  No, I'm excited too. I couldn't be more excited. Obviously, you and I met on Shark Tank, which was, I don't know, a couple of years back now. I had the distinct pleasure of sitting next to you for three seasons.

• 1:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, they always put the rookies next to me.

• 1:42Emma Grede?

  Yes, they do. Well, I asked as well.

• 1:44Speaker 01

  Oh, did you? Oh, good.

• 1:45Emma Grede?

  Well, it was just a very good use of my time if during the pitches or between the pitches, I could just like sit and quiz you on things, which I did. But obviously, you've stepped away after so many years. What was it, 14 seasons?

• 1:58Speaker 01

  15.

• 1:58Emma Grede?

  15 seasons. I mean, that's kind of unbelievable. How did you even know that it was time to step away?

• 2:05Speaker 01

  I mean, I've been missing my son's birthdays every year because we shot a pod right in his birthday. I miss them going back to school, you know, finishing school. And, you know, it was always, okay, we can't do this till dad's done with Shark Tank. And it was just time, you know, my kids are fifteen, eighteen and twenty one. And, you know, my oldest is going to graduate from college next year. I just don't want to be in a position where like, okay, I'm going to Shark Tank and they're gone and I missed a lot of it. And so that was one big piece, just spending more time with family and just, it was just time. You know, you can only do the same thing so.

• 2:38Emma Grede?

  For so long. But it's interesting because you hear so many stories about women that give up certain things in work for the family. But not so many men talk about that and the trade offs that come along with like, working in that way. So it's kind of interesting to hear you admit it in a way.

• 2:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, I guess. I guess. I never really looked at it that way. It was just like, you know, when I look at all the things in my life that are important to me, that's at the top. You know, and that wasn't always the case, you know, I wasn't one of these people who balanced work and home. You know, I was still a grinder, you know, and when I was trying to climb, it was just like, let's go, go, go, go, go. And, you know, let's get into the next chapter, let's get to the next level, whatever it was. And, and you know, you know what it's like, you have young kids, right? And they're, they're real people, but they're not real people.

• 3:23Emma Grede?

  Yes.

• 3:24Speaker 01

  Right? They miss you, but they don't know that you're gone really, and they're happy when you're home.

• 3:28Emma Grede?

  It's harder as they get older.

• 3:29Speaker 01

  As they get older, you know, they have their own lives and they want to do their own thing. And it's harder to insert yourself. It's like, I don't want you there, Dad, you know, and then when that hits, that hits home.

• 3:39Emma Grede?

  Why did you stay for so long?

• 3:41Speaker 01

  It kind of habit because, but more importantly, it sent a message, particularly to kids, that the American dream was alive and well. That, you know, you saw all the people, you know, that came in, Erica from Limbits, you know. It's like, how do you get from there to here? And the example that it sets, all these things we're talking about, when you get to see somebody who's doing it, that went from just idea.

• 4:06Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 4:07Speaker 01

  Didn't have anything.

• 4:08Emma Grede?

  Totally.

• 4:08Speaker 01

  Boom, and just got.

• 4:09Emma Grede?

  I say this all the time. It's like, you cannot be what you don't see. And for me, that.

• 4:13Speaker 01

  It's a great line.

• 4:14Emma Grede?

  To me, it's so true because you have to be able to have, you know, a representation of people that feel similar to you. That you can see yourself in. And every time I did that show to me.

• 4:26Speaker 01

  Don't see.

• 4:27Emma Grede?

  But it's true. Isn't it so true?

• 4:28Speaker 01

  Be the tagline for Shark Tank. It really should be. It really should be.

• 4:32Emma Grede?

  Do you feel like you made a lot of sacrifices? Have you been able to kind of, I guess, level with yourself on the sacrifices that you have made?

• 4:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I don't look at them as sacrifices along the way because I love what I do. I love what I did. I love the path that I took. Um, but at some point I had to be honest with myself that my kids are smart. You know, they're going to do their own thing, you know, we raised them to be independent. Um, and they're going to leave the house and they're not going to give a shit. You know, they'll go home for holidays and that'll like kill me, you know? And so I want to catch as many of those moments as I can. Maybe when they're all gone, living their own lives, have their own kids and all that. Things will change, but for now that was the path.

• 5:12Emma Grede?

  That's a really, it's a really good decision. It feels like a sound one. I want to go back to the beginning. I think it's a good decision. I'm, I'm at ease with it. I mean, I will miss you from my TV screen. That's, I mean, I feel like you were the reason that people watch that show. Like in so, I mean, you're one of the big reasons. You must know that about yourself. You were a huge draw on the show. I don't feel like anyone gives as good a honest advice as you do. And so I feel like you're, you're a massive draw on that.

• 5:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, I appreciate that. But I always thought it was the entrepreneurs, right? Everybody played the game, whether the, you know, would I buy that company? Would I invest? You know, what do I think about the company? Will I buy the product? And then, you know, I would talk my talk and do my thing, which, which I had fun doing, right? But yeah, I still think, you know, the show will go on because it's about the entrepreneurs.

• 5:57Emma Grede?

  No doubt, no doubt. I, I just feel like the advice that you gave was the stuff that people was writing down.

• 6:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, and I always try to give good advice, right? Because I wanted, you know, their whole life, you know what it's like, right? You start with nothing and it's just like, it's constant fear. You know, you might be fired up about your business and you might love it. And you might, you know, in your mind, you have that path you're taking. But you're scared shitless half the time.

• 6:21Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 6:22Speaker 01

  You know, one mistake and it's over. And so when they get to that carpet and they're one of, you know, the thousands of people who applied and they get there. You know, if I have experience that could help them, I'm going to give it to them.

• 6:33Emma Grede?

  Hundred percent. I always felt the same like that. If, if somebody has made it here, the very least I could do was be honest.

• 6:40Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 6:40Emma Grede?

  And, and tell them what my actual opinion is. Yeah. And they, and they can at least leave with something, even if they don't leave with an investment.

• 6:46Speaker 01

  Because that's the goal, right? Even if it's not a check, right? Because that's the thing about a shark investing in you is not just the check. You know, there's other value and other value add that you can bring. And you were always really good about that. When they brought somebody that was in your wheelhouse, I was like, I'm out. Just let Emma do her thing, right?

• 7:03Emma Grede?

  You were always like, do this fun.

• 7:06Emma Grede?

  Mark said I should do it.

• 7:08Speaker 01

  I know, because you're good, right? It's just like, I can see the look on the face and they're staring right at you.

• 7:12Emma Grede?

  Right, like, no, they do. They, when they want you, they're like right in your eyes and you're like, oh, it's me, I'm the chosen one. And then sometimes you're like, I ain't doing this. I don't care how much you eyeball me. I'm like, it's like, Mark, you doing this?

• 7:25Speaker 01

  Anything, because that's the hardest part of Shark Tank is going out.

• 7:27Emma Grede?

  I know, it's the hardest part. It really is. And also, you feel, you know, I'm such an emotional girl, but I really felt you can see how nervous they are, how much they're prepared. And to walk out with seemingly nothing, like, it's a lot.

• 7:41Speaker 01

  Well, you know, the visibility is always good. And some of the companies end up better, right? Because someone else comes in and makes them a better deal or buys them whatever. But, um, yeah, you always had this vibe, which was like, I know your business, you know, I could help you.

• 7:56Emma Grede?

  Yes.

• 7:56Speaker 01

  Question is, will I?

• 7:57Emma Grede?

  Will I? Will I? I mean, you helped a lot of people. We're going to get into that. But before we talk anymore about Shark Tank, I have to go back to the beginning because you are such a fascinating person. And while I was doing the research for this particular episode, I mean, I learned a lot about, I thought I was a fan and I knew everything. No apologies needed. I was like, wow, he has done a lot, the most. But I really want to understand a little bit more about your upbringing and where you were from. And also just to understand, like, what, what gave you the entrepreneurial bug? Like, who did you learn that from?

• 8:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I don't, I didn't learn it from anybody. It was more my dad, in particular, and my mom, just saying, look, if you want something, you gotta earn it. You know, you gotta go do it. From the time I was a kid, I was, I grew up in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Um, my dad did upholstery on cars. So if you had a rip in your car seat, that's where you'd take it. My mom did odd jobs, never had the same job for very long. Um, you know, good middle class family. And, but it was always like, you want a new pair of basketball shoes? You go get a job. So I would like, buy and sell trading cards. I was Michael Rubin before Michael Rubin was Michael Rubin.

• 9:03Emma Grede?

  You know, I had Michael Rubin on the show. He was like an attack. But it's interesting that you say you were Michael Rubin before Michael Rubin, because you have a very similar path in so many ways, right?

• 9:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, he hustled and he did his own thing, right? That's why I respect Michael. And so, um, but anyway, so I would buy and sell trading cards to all my neighbors and everything. And then one day, my dad and his buddies were playing poker, probably drunk out of their mind, right? And I came in and I was like, Dad, I want to get a new pair of basketball shoes. He looks at me and he says, those shoes on your feet work. When you have a job, you can get whatever you want. I'm like, I'm 12 years old, how am I going to get a job? And one of his buddies pops up and goes, hey, I've got all these garbage bags and you can sell them. There are boxes of garbage bags. I got hundreds of them. Why don't you go sell them? I'm like, can I, Dad? And he's like, cool. And so I just went door to door selling garbage bags. And it was like, hi, my name is Mark. Do you use garbage bags?

• 9:54Emma Grede?

  And everybody does, by the way.

• 9:56Speaker 01

  Everybody needs garbage bags. So I'll never forget, they cost me $3 a box. I sold them for six, you know, and I would drag them down to my neighbors. The world's first garbage bag route for, you know, a year or whatever. And I got my tennis shoes and I was happy.

• 10:08Emma Grede?

  That is amazing.

• 10:09Speaker 01

  But once you learn that, you know, that you can sell and once you learn you have confidence in talking to people, you know, you always have the ability to make money.

• 10:17Emma Grede?

  Yes, you do. I mean, and obviously, understanding that from your parents for a young age must have been pretty formative. What else did they teach you?

• 10:23Speaker 01

  Um, you know, my dad was gone at 7:00 AM and home at 6:00. And, you know, he didn't want me to follow his path, basically. You know, he would take me where he worked and, you know, I'd get $5 for sweeping the floor and cleaning things, not because he wanted me to make some money or whatever, but it was more, he wanted me to see how backbreaking it was. You know, he lost his eye in an accident.

• 10:43Emma Grede?

  He did.

• 10:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, and, and just, it was backbreaking work. And, and he wanted me to go to college. I mean, neither of my parents had gone to, even though my mom, when she was 50, went back, but neither of my parents had gone to college. My mom was 20 when I was born. I mean, it was just the prototypical, you know.

• 10:59Emma Grede?

  Different time.

• 11:00Speaker 01

  Pittsburgh, yeah, it was different times and, and, um. From that moment on, I was a hustler, you know? You know, I was the whole prototypical grinding all my life where there was selling baseball cars, garbage bags, magazines, door to door.

• 11:14Emma Grede?

  Coins, stamps, I read, all the things, all the things.

• 11:17Speaker 01

  I would go to a stamp show, right? Start with fifty cents and leave with fifty dollars, right?

• 11:21Emma Grede?

  Amazing, amazing.

• 11:22Speaker 01

  You know, and once you figure all, you know, this is how markets work and you can sell.

• 11:26Emma Grede?

  But you had it, right? It's like, when did the hustle turn into a thirst for entrepreneurialism?

• 11:31Speaker 01

  Um, after I realized I was a lousy employee and I was getting fired or couldn't stand it. You know, then I had no choice.

• 11:37Emma Grede?

  It's always a signal, isn't it? You're like, okay.

• 11:39Speaker 01

  They're like, see ya, right? You know, you know, when it really hit was, um, I started, I moved down to Dallas. I was living six guys in a three bedroom apartment, sleeping on the floor. And I got in the job first as a bartender, then I got a day job working at a company called Your Business Software, selling technology. And, you know, I had, didn't really know technology at the time, but I was like, I'll read the manuals, I'll do whatever. And it was going around, going along great, you know, I was making money, relatively speaking. And then I had a chance to get a big commission, right? So I had a chance to pick up.

• 12:12Emma Grede?

  What was a big commission back then?

• 12:13Speaker 01

  Fifteen hundred bucks. Cause that was enough for me to move out of this shithole I lived in, cause I was sleeping on the floor.

• 12:18Emma Grede?

  Get away from the six other guys.

• 12:19Speaker 01

  Six guys in a three bedroom apartment, right? And so I was like, okay, this will get me out. And so I called my boss and I'm like, okay, I'm going to go pick up this check. Um, cause I'm supposed to, you know, sweep the floor, open up the retail store. He's like, no, I need you at the store. I'm like, Michael, Michael, you make it was the same. I got you covered, right? And, um, he goes, no, I need you to be in the store. So I'm like, okay, I need this commission check. If I go pick up a check for fifteen grand, the store needed it, he needed it. I show up, he fires me.

• 12:46Emma Grede?

  Ah.

• 12:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. So I'm done there, almost, I'm like, okay, I gotta control my own destiny. I know I can sell, I know I can do this stuff. So I had a prospect, a company called Architectural Lighting. And I went to them and I said, look, I'm broke, right? I don't have the money for this software.

• 13:01Emma Grede?

  How old are you at this point?

• 13:01Speaker 01

  I'm twenty four.

• 13:02Emma Grede?

  Okay.

• 13:03Speaker 01

  So, so I'd been through jobs and bounce and so, um, It's twenty four, almost twenty four. And so I went to this company, Architectural Lighting, and I said, this software that you want is cost two hundred fifty dollars. If you give me five hundred dollars, so I have something to live off for a couple of weeks. If it doesn't work, I'll walk your dog, I'll sweep your floor, I'll wash your car.

• 13:23Emma Grede?

  Whatever it takes.

• 13:24Speaker 01

  Whatever it takes. And it worked. And then I went, same, did something similar for the next one and the next one and the next one. And that was the company Micro Solutions. And I went seven years without a vacation, but eight, you know, eighth year in, we sold it to H and R Block. And, you know, that was my first exit, yeah.

• 13:40Emma Grede?

  That's so crazy. Was that your first big yes? Like, was that the moment where you're like, I understand that I am good at something and I have a path here?

• 13:48Speaker 01

  Yes, yeah, because then, once I got into tech, that was it. It was over because I loved learning it, you know, because the way I looked at it, because I didn't take computer science. So I was like, okay, I get this because I like to learn this stuff. And even to this minute, like putting in time to learn technology, it's fun to me. Like, to me, like, my, my brain just clicks with it and I get excited about it. Okay, I'm learning this new. And when you're learning stuff like that and you have, you know, a sales background and a process background, you can start applying everything that you know to, like Shark Tank Company, right? Shark Tank Company walks in, in a minute, I know exactly how they make money and what they do and what technology works and doesn't. And, you know, that allowed me to be successful at Micro Solutions.

• 14:31Speaker 01

  After that, I bought and sold stocks, started a hedge fund and sold it within nine months. We were just killing it, you know? And so that's when I knew that I was on a path.

• 14:40Emma Grede?

  And what did you learn from Micro Solutions? Because that was like a different time from a technology perspective, right? It was brand new and almost kind of like a wild, wild west in a way, right? Like, what did you actually figure out that no one else had figured out at that point?

• 14:53Speaker 01

  What separated us, I figured out really early on that it was one thing to sell a computer. It was another thing even to write software. And I taught myself how to code to put on there.

• 15:01Emma Grede?

  You taught yourself how to code? How did you do that at that time?

• 15:04Speaker 01

  I would spend hours, like, I remember I would have to write, I would walk into a company and say, okay, you know, this will help you become more profitable, more productive, more profitable, better competitive advantage, right? The whole skill. And I'll write the software for you, it'll cost you X amount of dollars. No matter how long it takes me, it'll be X amount of dollars. And so, you know, the pressure was on me and I would find myself, you know, I'd look up. I literally would have a bucket of ribs. It was gross.

• 15:30Emma Grede?

  Bucket of ribs.

• 15:31Speaker 01

  And like towels and I was just like, I gained like 20 pounds. Chomping on these ribs. But I looked up and it'd be 20 hours later, 25 hours later, because I was concentrating so hard. I lost track of time and, you know, and so I was able to take all that I learned. And then what I realized that really separated us was connecting PCs together with brand new. You know, and back then people would have a floppy disk and they'd walk around, right? You know, or they couldn't even connect their printers. Um, now that seems insane, but I would go into these companies. I'm gonna, I'm gonna show you how I can connect all these printers and all these computers together. You can share data, become more profitable, more, and I'll write software to make it easier. And then I knew I won.

• 16:12Emma Grede?

  Have you always had that ability to like, take, you know, to really concentrate and focus and double down? And take in and absorb information? Were you that type of student?

• 16:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, um, yes and no, depends on the topic, you know? If it was sports, yeah.

• 16:28Emma Grede?

  If it's something you enjoyed, you could do it.

• 16:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, and once I realized I liked tech, because I had no idea. I had literally no idea.

• 16:35Emma Grede?

  But it's interesting that you say it was fun, like, you know, it's like, it's something just like sports that you enjoyed. You were just gobbling up with the ribs, all the information, right? But that's it, you were like, it was fun for you, you were like, I'm doing it.

• 16:47Speaker 01

  Day, like to this minute, like if I have an extra minute, like now I'm learning all I can about AI. Because there's some 15 year old kid that's just glomming onto this like it's second nature. And if I don't know it, he's gonna kick my ass or she's gonna kick my ass. And if I do know it, I'm gonna kick their ass, right?

• 17:04Emma Grede?

  I have no doubt.

• 17:08Emma Grede?

  We spend a lot of time thinking about how to get more value out of the things we buy. But one of the biggest payments most people make every month is for housing. And historically, that's been left out of the rewards conversation. That's why Bilt is such an interesting concept. As a Bilt member, you can earn points on your housing payments, whether you rent or own. And those points can be redeemed towards things like flights, hotels, Lyft rides, Amazon.com purchases, and even future housing payments. And the membership goes beyond your housing payments. You can link any credit card or debit card to the Bilt app and earn points on eligible purchases at participating restaurants and other businesses in your neighbourhood. The app also has a neighbourhood concierge that can help you book a fitness class, make

• 17:53Emma Grede?

  a dinner reservation, or schedule a lift while automatically applying your member benefits. Download the Bilt app and join the membership for where you live at joinbilt.com/emma. That's J-O-I-N-B-I-L-T dot com slash Emma. Use our link so they know we sent you.

• 18:12Speaker 02

  Hi, everyone. This is Kara Swisher.

• 18:14Speaker 03

  And I'm Scott Galloway.

• 18:15Speaker 02

  And we want to tell you about Pivot, our twice-weekly podcast.

• 18:18Speaker 03

  That's right, Kara. What a thrill. It's a chance for us to break down all the big things happening in tech, business, and politics.

• 18:25Speaker 02

  Yes, and I keep you in check so people can make it through each episode, whether it's digging into constant changes in the world of AI and social media, or trying to keep up with whatever the fuck Elon is doing. We're here to give you our take on all of that.

• 18:36Speaker 03

  Every Tuesday and Friday morning, we drop a new episode about some of the major stories of the moment.

• 18:42Speaker 02

  And Scott is a prediction machine, gazing into his crystal ball to tell you about where it's all heading.

• 18:47Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 18:48Speaker 02

  So if that sounds like a good time for you, especially Mr. "That's right", you can follow us on your favourite podcast app to get new episodes every week.

• 19:06Emma Grede?

  I want to talk about Broadcast.com.

• 19:08Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 19:08Emma Grede?

  Obviously, it was an early internet radio startup, which feels like a total oxymoron now.

• 19:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:13Emma Grede?

  Early internet radio startup.

• 19:15Speaker 01

  It was the first streaming company, period.

• 19:17Emma Grede?

  But that was a massive turning point for you in your business life career.

• 19:21Speaker 01

  Like, you know, my buddy Todd Wagner from Indiana, we were having lunch at California Pizza Kitchen. And he was like, there's got to be a way we can listen to Indiana basketball down here in Dallas. Because at the time-

• 19:32Emma Grede?

  Always solving for sports, Mark.

• 19:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, right, yeah. Because at the time, somebody in Bloomington, Indiana, had to put a radio next to a speakerphone in their office. And then we would have a speakerphone down in Dallas. And that's how we listened to games.

• 19:44Emma Grede?

  No way it was not.

• 19:45Speaker 01

  Yes, you know, and now the internet was happening. And Mr. Geek here was like, okay, I know what networking is all about because that's what Microsolutions did. Let me figure something out. Because if it works, you know, there's no distance, there's no time. You can watch anything or listen to anything anywhere. So we started as a company called AudioNet in 1995. And nobody, back then, we called it internet broadcasting. And nobody was streaming, nobody. And we're like, oh, shit, okay. Let's see what we can do. So I went to a local radio station, KLIF. And literally, we connected an eight-hour VCR to their board, right? And took the output of their radio and recorded it on eight-hour VCR tapes,

• 20:30Speaker 01

  took it back to my house, encoded it, put it, then put it on our website, audionet.com. And I would go on all these forums and Prodigy and CompuServe and the internet. And I would say, hey, if you live in Dallas and you're, if you're from Dallas and you want to know about Dallas sports and Dallas news, you have to do all these five steps, but then you can do it. And then, first day, you know, 10 people. Next day, 100 people. Next, you know, month, 1,000 people. And then we started adding more and more radio stations. And then, you know, probably six months later, we were able to do live.

• 21:04Emma Grede?

  Did you know that that was going to change your life? Were you like, this is the beginning?

• 21:08Speaker 01

  Yes, because I remember having a meeting with everybody and saying, if this works the way I think it'll work, this company's worth $5 billion.

• 21:16Emma Grede?

  You knew that.

• 21:17Speaker 01

  Without any doubt in my mind, because it changed everything. Everybody thought I was a moron, right? Dude, we'll turn on the television.

• 21:23Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 21:24Speaker 01

  Dude, I just have to turn on the radio. But I'm like, in an office, you can't just do that. Like, there's no televisions here, there's no radios. Well, it's different now, but, but back then there weren't. And so it was the only media device on your desktop. And they had more bandwidth. So like, people would listen to Cubs games, people would listen to soccer, football from overseas, right? It was the only way they can get it. And back then, the laws were different. So I could just walk into, um, Best Buy and buy 200 CDs and encode them and just put it on our jukebox and people could listen to everything. We had, you know, 400 plus radio stations. We played Christmas music on loop all year long. I mean, just all the stuff that you see on Spotify.

• 22:04Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 22:05Speaker 01

  And then we got to video, all the stuff you see on YouTube. We were doing in 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, until we sold Yahoo in 2000.

• 22:14Emma Grede?

  Which is insane. I mean, the, the idea that you sold that company to Yahoo for how much?

• 22:19Speaker 01

  5.7 billion dollars.

• 22:20Emma Grede?

  So you were right, this is worth 5 billion dollars.

• 22:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:23Emma Grede?

  It really was.

• 22:24Speaker 01

  It turned out, yeah.

• 22:25Emma Grede?

  You're like, ching.

• 22:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:27Emma Grede?

  Amazing. Did you have a bunch of partners at that point?

• 22:29Speaker 01

  Um, well, we had gone public.

• 22:31Emma Grede?

  Right.

• 22:31Speaker 01

  And so we went public in July of 1998. And at the time, the broadcast.com IPO was the biggest first day leap in the history of the stock market.

• 22:39Emma Grede?

  Wow.

• 22:39Speaker 01

  Which was so cool.

• 22:41Emma Grede?

  That's so cool.

• 22:43Speaker 01

  Cause like, the minute, we went public and then the stock market closed and it went from 18 dollars up to 72 and then finished at 6275. And all of a sudden, like, I was worth 300 million dollars. So we went straight to a bar and we turned on, oh yeah. And so we had them turn on, um, like CNN and all the, the networks. And every time they mentioned broadcast.com and the IPO, we took a shot. And we couldn't see, yeah, oh my god.

• 23:08Emma Grede?

  Completely smashed.

• 23:09Speaker 01

  And then we had to get back to work the next day because, like I told everybody.

• 23:12Emma Grede?

  Yeah, well, you're gonna keep that stock price rising, for sure.

• 23:14Speaker 01

  Right, and all these people trusted us.

• 23:16Emma Grede?

  Amazing.

• 23:16Speaker 01

  You know, they, they put their hard, their hard earned money and they, it worked out, yeah.

• 23:20Emma Grede?

  So take me inside that Yahoo deal. Like, what did you learn? What did it teach you?

• 23:25Speaker 01

  Um, well, there's a bunch of pieces there, right? Um, we brought them in as an investor for only a million dollars, like, right after the IPO.

• 23:32Emma Grede?

  A million dollars.

• 23:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, but that was a tiny, yeah, it was a tiny smidgen for the company. Um, but we wanted. Access to the Yahoo website and we just wanted the connection.

• 23:43Emma Grede?

  So that was like a valuable part and wasn't necessarily about the finance.

• 23:46Speaker 01

  No, no, it wasn't a financial investor, it was just strategic. Yeah, and so they were strategic investor and then all of a sudden, you know, as our, you know, people that all they just did internet radio. No, like we invented all these things that were different and I wish I'd gotten patents. Um, yeah, it just kills me because I, it's so funny because I, I posted it on social. Um, I found an old letter that, um, our patent attorney had written said, here's all the patents you could apply for. And back then I'm like, we're too busy. We're getting ready to sell the company and like everything that happens.

• 24:18Emma Grede?

  Which is so crazy because whenever I hear this story about you, like you only think about the success. You only think about, well, he built this company, put, tied these.

• 24:27Speaker 01

  It would have been worth.

• 24:28Emma Grede?

  Things nobody else saw.

• 24:29Speaker 01

  It probably is worth 10 trillion dollars. Like the whole.

• 24:33Emma Grede?

  Does that haunt you? Does that bother you at all?

• 24:36Speaker 01

  Because I'm really well off, so I'm.

• 24:37Emma Grede?

  You know, I'm good.

• 24:38Speaker 01

  Uh, there's a lot of shit I've missed along the way that I have more money and I'm good.

• 24:42Emma Grede?

  You're good.

• 24:43Speaker 01

  In some respects, it pisses me out because people just think it was internet radio.

• 24:46Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 24:47Speaker 01

  Right? And if I'd gotten.

• 24:47Emma Grede?

  Well, yeah, you don't get, you don't get the credit that you should have for everything that came out of that company.

• 24:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, we started the whole thing. I mean, like literally, if Yahoo hadn't screwed it up, there'd be no prod, there'd be no, um, Spotify, there'd be no YouTube.

• 24:59Emma Grede?

  But Mark, was it really about the time that you not being able to actually like go out and get those patents? Or did, did you actually understand what you were creating at that point?

• 25:08Speaker 01

  I knew exactly what we were creating and the value for sure.

• 25:11Emma Grede?

  But you just couldn't go out and do it.

• 25:12Speaker 01

  Because we were different than everybody else. We were kicking everybody's ass. I mean, we were a top 10 website, literally. Yeah. I mean, we had millions of users, millions of people were streaming, like, you know, we were, you know, doing video online that nobody else could do or had done. It was, it was fun.

• 25:30Emma Grede?

  And how big was the company? How many people at that point?

• 25:32Speaker 01

  330.

• 25:33Emma Grede?

  Yeah, but you have to focus, right? Even with 300 people, it's like you've got your things that you're trying to achieve.

• 25:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:38Emma Grede?

  And you have to focus and double down on those things. You didn't have time to go out and think about.

• 25:41Speaker 01

  No, it wasn't about all the esoteric stuff. Yeah, right? It was like, we have to win. It's a competitive business and we have to stay focused on being the best streamer, you know, whatever the type of content. But things like, you know, inserted ads, things like, you know, pop up video ads in front of content. All these things that people do today, we were doing, and it's been thirty fucking years. It's insane.

• 26:03Emma Grede?

  It actually is insane to even think about. So you actually, like, there's so much of what we take for granted now that you guys just invented at that point. I can't even believe that. And I wonder, so when you get this Yahoo deal, did it turn out as you had expected?

• 26:19Speaker 01

  No, I mean, so two pieces. One, we sold in stock, right? Which is not cash, as you know, and so I had.

• 26:25Emma Grede?

  No, it's not.

• 26:26Speaker 01

  No, it's not, because back then in the internet stock market, stocks were going up, stocks were going down, so it went up. And I'm like, I'm a billionaire, you know? I like it and I don't want to risk it. I don't need more money, I need to protect what I got. And so I did this thing called a collar, where I sold out of the money calls on the stock that we got from Yahoo, on Yahoo stock. And I bought puts to protect the downside from the money I got from selling.

• 26:53Emma Grede?

  Okay, explain that for, explain that really slowly for us that might not understand it.

• 26:57Speaker 01

  So a share of stock.

• 26:58Emma Grede?

  Yeah, okay.

• 26:59Speaker 01

  Share of stock, um, we got Yahoo stock. And we sold what is known as calls. Call on a share of stock gives somebody that you sell it to the right to buy that share of stock at whatever the price.

• 27:12Emma Grede?

  At like a predetermined price down the road?

• 27:14Speaker 01

  So if Yahoo stock was a hundred and I sold it, you can buy this at a hundred twenty and um, you pay me some amount of money for that. That's selling a call. And I took that money and I bought a put, which is the opposite side. It protects the downside. It says if Yahoo stock falls.

• 27:29Emma Grede?

  Smart ass over there.

• 27:29Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. So if Yahoo stock falls below the level I bought the hundred, you have to buy it from me at that price, you know? And I was like, yeah.

• 27:38Emma Grede?

  You're such a clever dick.

• 27:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, it crashed.

• 27:41Emma Grede?

  Of course it crashed, this is it.

• 27:43Speaker 01

  The whole, you know, internet stock, you know, bubbled, um, burst. And so I actually ended up making some more money of that. So that was part one, that worked out fine. But then Yahoo, you know, when that internet stock bubble burst, Yahoo's board of directors just freaked out because their stock had gone from hundreds to. Tens, you know, or less. And they're like, okay, we got to cut expenses. And so the streaming side was, you know, huge mistake, but that's part of what they cut.

• 28:08Emma Grede?

  Wow. And talk to me about your relationship to money as a founder, because I just feel like a founder's journey is so uneven. It's like you've got nothing, you've got nothing, you've got nothing. And hopefully you get something. And maybe it's too much and you don't know what to do with it.

• 28:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, that's a great question. Like, my attitude is, if you're happy when you're broke, you'll be happy when you're rich. If you were miserable when you were broke, there's no amount of money that's going to change you from being miserable. And so, you know, when I was sleeping on the floor, I still was having fun, you know.

• 28:38Emma Grede?

  You struck me as the type of guy that was broke and happy.

• 28:41Speaker 01

  Yes, I was.

• 28:42Emma Grede?

  You're just happier now.

• 28:43Speaker 01

  I wasn't happy to be broke, right? But I was, I was gonna have fun no matter what. And so, you know, when I sold MicroSolutions, I ended up with like $2 million. And I was 29 years old, give or take. And so I bought a lifetime pass on American Airlines for $125,000.

• 29:01Emma Grede?

  That's a great deal.

• 29:02Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 29:02Emma Grede?

  It's a great deal.

• 29:04Speaker 01

  Only mission, because in my mind, I was retired. And my only mission.

• 29:08Emma Grede?

  At 29?

• 29:09Speaker 01

  At 29, yeah. My only mission in life was to party like a rock star. Because all I had to do, I had this card that I could walk up to American Airlines and just show it. And I was actually living in LA, not far from here. And I was like, okay, I'd go out to the clubs and find a new friend. Let's go to Vegas, let's go to London, let's go wherever.

• 29:30Emma Grede?

  And you used it?

• 29:31Speaker 01

  Oh, fuck, I did.

• 29:32Emma Grede?

  Did you get your money's worth out of that $125?

• 29:34Speaker 01

  Oh, yes, I did. And it was lifetime pass.

• 29:36Emma Grede?

  At least you can't just, you can't just still use that now.

• 29:38Speaker 01

  I could, but I gave it, I gave it to my dad. And when my dad passed, I gave it to a friend.

• 29:42Emma Grede?

  Oh, that is so lovely. That's so you, Mark, to do that. But I'm sure you got your use out of it in the, in the interim. So back, so back to the money. So you get $2 million when you're about 29. The next big chunk of money doesn't come until you've sold.

• 29:56Speaker 01

  Well, no, not, not right. So because, so I took that $2 million. And initially, I told my stockbroker, who was a buddy of mine, I want, I want you to invest like a 60 year old. I want you to put it in bonds, because I want to live off of this. Interest rates were higher. I want to live off of this for a while.

• 30:09Emma Grede?

  You had a sense, though, that $2 million bucks, you'd kind of made it at that point?

• 30:13Speaker 01

  Well, yes.

• 30:14Emma Grede?

  Or you knew you were gonna make loads more money in your mind?

• 30:16Speaker 01

  I didn't, I didn't. I was willing to live like a student for a long time. But what came along was I talked to my broker and he would ask me all these questions about stuff I knew because of Microsolutions. And then I'd see these people who worked, it was Goldman Sachs, worked for Goldman Sachs, go on CNBC or whatever it was back then and say exactly what I said and the stock would go up or down. And my buddy was like, you know this stuff better than our guys do. You should be buying and selling these stocks. So I'm like, okay, I will. And I just crushed it. I mean, crushed it. I turned that two million, I don't even know what it ended up being, fifteen, twenty million, right? And it was just like, okay. And then we started broadcast and that allowed me to keep going.

• 31:00Emma Grede?

  How do you think that your relationship with money shaped your early decisions as an entrepreneur?

• 31:06Speaker 01

  Oh, a hundred percent, right? I mean, I was that kid that drove around and looked at the big houses and listened to motivational tapes in the car. Yeah.

• 31:14Emma Grede?

  I used to drive around looking at all the big houses. That was such a thing for me.

• 31:18Speaker 01

  Yes, a hundred percent. I'm like, what do these people do? How did they get there? What is it that they have that I don't? What is their motivation? And that was my motivation. And so I always wanted to make more money, but I always wanted to use my time first, right? Time was the most valuable asset. That's, that's kind of what my dad and my parents taught me. Because, you know, if you're grinding the same job and, you know, not really making money, you know, my dad never made more than forty thousand dollars and you're stuck. You know, you can live a great life. It's not like you can't really enjoy your life and have a great family like we did. But, you know, there were things we couldn't do, you know, things, you know, that, hey, dad, can we do this or can I? No.

• 31:58Emma Grede?

  No, sorry.

• 31:59Speaker 01

  No, it doesn't work that way. And you get a job and you can do it. And so, you know, I, I wanted to really value my time first. And then as I started earning more money and then it was like, okay.

• 32:16Speaker 01

  What is it that I can use this for? And it was have fun, you know? And then, you know, but I still, it was still like, okay, I need to save this forevermore. And then when we hit it with the billions, then, then everything changed. Because it was like, okay, what will change my life immediately? So it was like, I bought a house, you know, sight unseen. It was a twenty five million dollar house.

• 32:41Emma Grede?

  No, you didn't.

• 32:42Speaker 01

  Honestly.

• 32:42Emma Grede?

  Who spends twenty five million dollars?

• 32:44Speaker 01

  Twenty five, so what the deal was, was.

• 32:46Emma Grede?

  Of course you didn't, you did a deal.

• 32:47Speaker 01

  I did a deal, right? So this guy, damn, um, how I remember this news now, I don't know, right? But he owned this company, never sold a share of stock. It was a public company, never sold a share of stock. And then the company cratered. And so he spent three years and twenty five million dollars building this house, more than three years, lived there eight months. And my friend said, look, it's going to go to bankruptcy and you can get it for twelve million dollars. And he showed me a picture, I'm like, fuck it.

• 33:11Emma Grede?

  Done.

• 33:12Speaker 01

  You know, done.

• 33:12Emma Grede?

  Done.

• 33:12Speaker 01

  And I still live in that house.

• 33:14Emma Grede?

  No, you don't live in that house.

• 33:16Speaker 01

  I live in that same house twenty five years later. Twenty seven years later.

• 33:19Emma Grede?

  What a fantastic investment. That was your house, that was yours meant to be.

• 33:23Speaker 01

  That was, because that's what, it was just a like amazing house, right? Like literally until I got married and had kids, there were rooms I'd never been in. There are still rooms.

• 33:35Emma Grede?

  You couldn't even make your way around it.

• 33:36Speaker 01

  There are still rooms.

• 33:37Emma Grede?

  That says a lot about you and who you are though, because I feel like you are just so comfortable in who you are, that once you've got your thing, that's it. You're just gonna stay and stick with it.

• 33:46Speaker 01

  It was just like, it's like, do I got married? I had no furniture, I had like one couch and a big screen TV. And it was so big, like, we would play football and wiffle ball, like, in the ballroom. And I literally had a basketball hoop in the ballroom of the house. And so I could just get some shots up.

• 34:03Emma Grede?

  It was amazing.

• 34:04Speaker 01

  It was so much fun.

• 34:09Speaker 04

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• 35:42Emma Grede?

  I think the audience that I have really wants to understand, how do you get started? Right? Like, if you have an idea or if you've got something that you believe in strongly, like, how do you just get out of the gate? And I think that really what I want to ask you is almost what matters more. Is it the idea? Or is it how you execute something?

• 36:02Speaker 01

  So if you would have asked me this question six months ago, I would have given you a completely different answer.

• 36:07Emma Grede?

  Well, I'm so glad I've got you now.

• 36:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, right? Because of AI. Like, literally this morning, I got a question from a kid in high school. And I, you know, I get so many emails. And every now and then...

• 36:17Emma Grede?

  You are unbelievable at answering emails.

• 36:19Speaker 01

  Well, but somebody I like, right? I'm going to respond immediately. But like, every now and then, I'll be, okay, it's from a kid. Let's see what the question is, right? And he said, well, same question. How do you get started? And I was like, okay, first thing you have to do is learn AI. You have whether it's Chat G P T, Gemini, Perplexity, Claude. You've got to spend tons and tons and tons of time just learning how it works and how to ask it.

• 36:44Emma Grede?

  Is that what you're doing at the moment? You're spending time. So talk me through that. What does that look like? If we, if you're a founder right now and you wanna just learn A I, what are you doing?

• 36:54Speaker 01

  Um, just asking it questions.

• 36:56Emma Grede?

  Just asking it questions.

• 36:57Speaker 01

  Trying everything that comes out that's new. There's so, it's, it's like the early days when I first got started. Every day there was a new technology. Every day there was new software. Every day the PCs and the networks were getting faster and bandwidth was getting faster. So it was just a constant, oh, my God, oh, my God. And A I is the same way now.

• 37:13Emma Grede?

  What do you say to someone who says, yeah, but I, I don't like A I. I don't want any more technology in my life. Like, what, what is the answer?

• 37:20Speaker 01

  You're fucked.

• 37:21Emma Grede?

  Basically, that's it. It's like do or die.

• 37:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's like saying, I don't, you know, back in the day, people, I don't need to use a P C. I don't need to use the internet. I don't need a, a cell phone, you know, Wi Fi.

• 37:32Emma Grede?

  And those businesses died.

• 37:33Speaker 01

  Done.

• 37:34Emma Grede?

  Yeah. And there's so many examples of that, right? Brands that just didn't transition, didn't update, didn't do what they needed to do and they died.

• 37:42Speaker 01

  Didn't gob on to the internet, didn't figure out, you know, it's just like all the stuff you have to learn, right? For great American scams, right? It's never ending. It's a never ending competition. And now your business is harder than it's ever been.

• 37:57Emma Grede?

  The hardest, the hardest and changes every day.

• 38:00Speaker 01

  Every millisecond. You know, if you saw the stuff that came from Google, right? Where people are just typing in things and creating like great content.

• 38:08Emma Grede?

  Unreal.

• 38:09Speaker 01

  No.

• 38:09Emma Grede?

  I mean, I was at the Google Summit last week where they were launching.

• 38:12Speaker 01

  They showed you all this, right?

• 38:13Emma Grede?

  I mean.

• 38:13Speaker 01

  They wanted you to see all this.

• 38:15Emma Grede?

  You're, you're, you can't even fathom that what you're looking at isn't real. I'm like, wait a minute, what, what is so good about this? And they're like, well, none of this exists.

• 38:22Speaker 01

  Six years anymore. It is like.

• 38:24Emma Grede?

  Crazy.

• 38:24Speaker 01

  The realest stuff ever. Now, the good news, so there's multiple parts to all this, right? If you're an entrepreneur or want to be an entrepreneur, and you start playing with it to get a sense of how it works, how to prompt, um, it becomes like a mentor. It becomes like having, you know, an entire staff of a thousand business professors.

• 38:45Emma Grede?

  That's how you're thinking about it.

• 38:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, because you still have to be smart to do it. Like, I, like, if you would say to me, Mark, I need a commercial for Skims. Like, I can, I know how to use all the technology. I can type in prompts, but I don't have the creative side of it. I don't know, like, okay, you know, if you're using a thirty five millimeter camera in this type of light, you need this type of aperture and you need this type of angle and you need to, you know, you want these.

• 39:12Emma Grede?

  So like nuance of expertise is still really important.

• 39:15Speaker 01

  More important.

• 39:15Emma Grede?

  And the more you're giving AI, the more you're getting out of it, right? Like, that's my limited understanding. It's as good as what you give it.

• 39:21Speaker 01

  Correct. Now, it's going to come up with stuff that you couldn't even fathom. It's that good and it's the ultimate time hack. Because now, okay, edit that together, let's see what it looks like. And then you look at the dailies and you're like, okay, that looks good. Okay, let's, you know, shoot a little bit more and see what we get. Now you don't got to shoot shit.

• 39:41Emma Grede?

  You ain't got to do anything.

• 39:42Speaker 01

  Right, but you still got to be able to know how to edit it.

• 39:44Emma Grede?

  Yes.

• 39:45Speaker 01

  You still got to know how to tell a story. And your ability to tell a story now changes dramatically. So before it'd be like, okay, it's, here's my fifteen second, here's my thirties, here's my sixties, right? Maybe we'll do something long form, we'll see, because, you know, on TikTok, people, you know, like this or don't like that. And, you know, let's see where the fit is and what the algorithm supports. Now you just crank out fifty different things in six minutes. And then you get to A, B, C, test it and C or run it through. But you still need to have quality, quality qualified people to say, that's good, that's not.

• 40:20Emma Grede?

  So there's no substitute for actual humans, but you're just like, it's much less. So you're thinking about AI as in that, that this is a replacement for some level of creative output, for some level of the number of staff that you might need. So it's almost like shrinking everything that's needed in the beginning.

• 40:38Speaker 01

  It's no different than like CGI has changed over the last thirty years, you know? Using digital, you went from analog cameras to digital cameras. So you can use your phone and it's four K and then it'll be eight K, right? So there's things that you didn't, you don't do now that you did five years ago to create content. And so it's just one more move forward. But for starting a business, like you can say, okay, here's what I want to do. I have this idea where I want to sell these cups that say aspire by Emma Grede. I want to do a business around this. Write me a business plan and then you get it in a minute. And you say, this is wrong, this is wrong, this is wrong. Update this, this, this, this, this. Okay. All right. Now that you've read my business plan, chat G P T or Gemini, put together a website.

• 41:23Speaker 01

  Design boom. Minute later, you're looking at the first proof of your website. I mean, to me right now, there's no better time to be a startup entrepreneur because you have an expert in your pocket. You go to chat G P T or whatever Gemini and just ask it.

• 41:40Emma Grede?

  But I love that this stage of your journey, Mark, you are using that. Like as accomplished as you are, as successful as you are, even you are starting.

• 41:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, it's like. And it gets weird sometimes too, like.

• 41:52Emma Grede?

  I'm going to take a picture of your phone. Like what apps do you have that I don't?

• 41:56Speaker 01

  Oh, I've got everything.

• 41:57Emma Grede?

  It's all on there. Who's teaching you about it? Like, are you, is it all self discovery? Or are you like engaging with?

• 42:04Speaker 01

  I need, I need a.

• 42:05Emma Grede?

  Is Sam Altman on speed dial?

• 42:07Speaker 01

  No, no, no, just myself.

• 42:08Emma Grede?

  Okay.

• 42:09Speaker 01

  I don't, you know, it's fun, more fun to learn. Okay, I need a business plan for a mug that says aspire on it that I want to sell. Through Skims. Write me a business plan and the best approach to take it to them. Okay.

• 42:25Speaker 06

  All right, let's map this out. First off, the main idea is a sleek, stylish mug branded with the word aspire. Sold in collaboration with Skims, leveraging their brand power and audience. One, executive summary. You're launching a premium mug line that complements Skims lifestyle brand. The mug embodies motivation and minimalism, aligning with Skims aesthetic and.

• 42:47Speaker 01

  Okay, that's enough for right now. Just write it up for me and I'll read it later. Okay.

• 42:50Emma Grede?

  Unbelievable. All of these things that used to take weeks and weeks and weeks and copywriters and editors and graphic designers and specialists.

• 42:59Speaker 01

  And you're meeting with your team to go through, what do you think? What do you think? And some, everybody's always got to give their opinion because otherwise they don't feel valued, right?

• 43:05Emma Grede?

  And that takes time, that takes energy and that's, yeah.

• 43:08Speaker 01

  And so if you can consolidate now, do you still need people who can copyright? But yes, but those people.

• 43:13Emma Grede?

  Yes, you just need far less.

• 43:14Speaker 01

  Right, well, it's just you need fewer, but maybe not, right? Maybe you just those, but those copywriters have to learn how to use prompts in A I. And they have to know which AI will take those prompts and give you better output that's suitable for your businesses. And then the editors would be able to take that video that it creates or the script for the video first and know how to use it within an AI structure like V O, which is the video creation. Right. And so, because if you don't know how to translate the script into what V O uses and it's changing every day now, whatever comes next, next, next, next, next, then you won't have a job. But if you have those skills as an editor and a copywriter and you know how to translate them into AI

• 43:56Speaker 01

  so that your prompts are really, really good and quick and efficient, you'll have a job for life.

• 44:02Emma Grede?

  Of course. So someone starting a business now needs to learn AI.

• 44:06Speaker 01

  All of it.

• 44:06Emma Grede?

  All of it. Gobble all the information up.

• 44:08Speaker 01

  Day one, learn everything about AI. And like I told this kid this morning, read books about entrepreneurs because they're still the heart. The AI isn't going to deal with your heart and mind because knowing what the grind is and the work and the fear. Because I can get AI to write a business plan for this or anything for that matter. But if I'm not willing to do the work, if I don't understand that I might be broke for a long time. If I don't understand that now it's easier for anybody to start a business. So now there's more competition, not less. If I don't understand that, then it doesn't matter what the AI tells me.

• 44:40Emma Grede?

  Cause you read a lot, right?

• 44:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, I try to, but now it's all reading about AI.

• 44:43Emma Grede?

  Yeah. But so, all right, so you want people to read books about entrepreneurs? And what's probably the last thing they need to do?

• 44:48Speaker 01

  The last thing is just to experiment, you know? You've got to try stuff that feels uncomfortable. You can ask the AI, how do I, you know, how do I build a mold? Where, where's the best way to build a mold? And even like, one of the beauties of AI, it'll, it'll help you create molds that'll be more efficient wherever you send it to build your first, you know, prototypes.

• 45:10Emma Grede?

  We're in a whole new world.

• 45:11Speaker 01

  Whole.

• 45:12Emma Grede?

  It's a whole new world.

• 45:14Speaker 01

  Literally, Emma. Twenty twenty four was might as well say black and white nineteen twenty.

• 45:20Emma Grede?

  What which which to me signals so much opportunity.

• 45:23Speaker 01

  Oh, where there's change, there's opportunity.

• 45:25Emma Grede?

  But when we start to think about, okay, traditionally, the barriers that have stopped people from starting a business. You know, where they live, where they come from, education level, it's it's gone. You're saying that's out the window now.

• 45:37Speaker 01

  As long as you have that smartphone that can download chat G P T and all these things, um, not even paying up, right? You can ask your questions like you have access to me, you, the best professors ever now, it doesn't mean.

• 45:52Emma Grede?

  There's no excuse.

• 45:53Speaker 01

  No, you know, you may say I need money to do this, but then you just ask this chat G P T. How can I do this with no money? What's the best way to start? Like, how can I create a prototype the least expensive way? I know what needs to happen in most businesses, right? Anybody can now ask those questions.

• 46:11Emma Grede?

  So given everything that you know, the experience of building multiple companies, the experience of, you know, investing in all of these very kind of early stage founders. I guess my question to you is, can everyone be a founder? Can anyone be an entrepreneur?

• 46:26Speaker 01

  Can they? Yes. Should they? No.

• 46:29Emma Grede?

  Thank you.

• 46:31Emma Grede?

  That's the end of that.

• 46:34Emma Grede?

  Tell me why. Go on, give me the give me the reasons.

• 46:37Speaker 01

  Everybody's got ideas. And this country, that's what makes this country different than every country in the world.

• 46:42Emma Grede?

  I say that all the time.

• 46:43Speaker 01

  Right? Because in the U K, not everybody thinks I can start a business.

• 46:46Emma Grede?

  No.

• 46:46Speaker 01

  Doesn't cross their mind.

• 46:47Emma Grede?

  No, absolutely. It's not this. It's woven into the fabric of society in America.

• 46:51Speaker 01

  Doesn't matter who the president is, doesn't matter what party is in charge.

• 46:55Emma Grede?

  It's doable.

• 46:56Speaker 01

  It's doable.

• 46:56Emma Grede?

  It's doable.

• 46:57Speaker 01

  Right? And this country, we think I have an idea. And if I have an idea, it could become a business. And then you go on Google or now you go to chat G P T or Gemini and you say, has this ever been done before? You know, show me anybody who's done it and how it's turned out. Oh, nobody's done it before. Write me a business plan for this idea. Okay, and two seconds later, let me go through it. I can do this, right? But then.

• 47:23Emma Grede?

  But not everybody should do this, Mark.

• 47:24Speaker 01

  There's this line right here.

• 47:26Emma Grede?

  What is the line?

• 47:27Speaker 01

  The line, when you step over that line, you're in. And it means you gotta do everything you gotta do to be successful.

• 47:33Emma Grede?

  You gotta do it.

• 47:33Speaker 01

  You gotta do it.

• 47:34Emma Grede?

  You gotta do it.

• 47:35Speaker 01

  It's not like, I'll go raise money and I'll hire people.

• 47:37Emma Grede?

  No, you gotta do it, yes.

• 47:39Speaker 01

  You've gotta be the one to do it, and most people aren't willing to make that commitment.

• 47:42Emma Grede?

  So who shouldn't be a founder?

• 47:44Speaker 01

  Like, if you want structure, you should not be a founder. Now, you can be anal and deal with details. But if you think, okay, you know, I want my life to have structure. You know, I wanna work nine to five. I wanna be a founder because I'll have more time to myself.

• 47:58Emma Grede?

  Funny, all of those things, Mark, that you say that.

• 48:02Speaker 01

  Am I wrong?

• 48:02Emma Grede?

  No, you are, you are right. It's just that certain people have the liberty to be able to say those things and other people maybe not so much. But you honestly believe that. It's like, if you're looking for structure, if you're looking for familiarity, if you're looking for your days to be.

• 48:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, like, I have more control.

• 48:17Emma Grede?

  Pretty much the same every day.

• 48:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, you don't, like, you own the business.

• 48:20Emma Grede?

  If you're looking for balance.

• 48:21Speaker 01

  Just forget it.

• 48:22Emma Grede?

  Maybe don't be a founder.

• 48:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, maybe you can make it work if you have, you know, enough money to work your way through it. You own the finances of your company, but your customers and your employees really run your life. You know, and that doesn't even take into account competition. Who is working 24 hours a day to kick your ass.

• 48:41Emma Grede?

  To kill ya.

• 48:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, and so, it's, I mean, you know, and in your industry better than anybody, right? Because it is non-stop, somebody comes in. Somebody comes in, they have an idea, oh no, you know, Emma's wrong, you know, she, she doesn't get the feel anymore. That's not, that's not the way people buy.

• 48:57Emma Grede?

  And you have a window in time as well, right? You're not good forever. Most founders are not great. You have like a, like musicians, you know, I feel like there are these like golden years.

• 49:05Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 49:05Emma Grede?

  Where you're like in it, you're on it, everything's coming your way.

• 49:08Speaker 01

  And you match, right?

• 49:09Emma Grede?

  Stars align, yeah, exactly.

• 49:11Speaker 01

  Right, your feel is the match to what people want.

• 49:14Emma Grede?

  Yes.

• 49:15Speaker 01

  And music's a great analogy, right? Because what was the hit yesterday?

• 49:20Emma Grede?

  Same today.

• 49:21Speaker 01

  Same with clothes.

• 49:21Emma Grede?

  Mm hmm.

• 49:22Speaker 01

  Things that, oh man, everybody wants that.

• 49:24Emma Grede?

  So what are your red flags? Like when you're in a pitch situation, what are the things that to you, you're just like, that's a no no?

• 49:30Speaker 01

  They think there's a magic bullet, that if they raise money, they can go hire somebody to do A, B and C. And that's where I think most businesses fail because the founder will realize they don't have a specific skill set. And or that something's not working that they expected to work. I thought for sure this would sell. I thought, you know, we're losing twenty thousand dollars a month. If only I had more money for a bigger marketing budget. If only I could hire a marketing person. If only I can hire a salesperson.

• 49:59Emma Grede?

  It's always kicking the can down the road.

• 50:00Speaker 01

  Right, to somebody else that's going to be some super person that's, you know, a magic bullet. No, you've got to do it.

• 50:06Emma Grede?

  You've got to be the bullet.

• 50:07Speaker 01

  You've got to be the bullet, right? If you aren't the magic bullet, it's not going to work unless you get lucky.

• 50:12Emma Grede?

  Have you ever seen anything contrary to that? Like, has there ever been a time where you've met somebody and actually they've defied?

• 50:19Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Yeah, I mean, there's people, you know.

• 50:21Emma Grede?

  But it's rare.

• 50:22Speaker 01

  It's rare.

• 50:23Emma Grede?

  It's just very, very rare.

• 50:24Speaker 01

  Right.

• 50:24Emma Grede?

  I've heard you say a million times that you don't need money to start. So what do people do when they don't have money to start?

• 50:31Speaker 01

  Sweat equity. You know, you've got to, first you've got to find the right product or service. More if you don't have any money, most likely it's going to be a service. You know, like right now, if I was sixteen years old or twenty five years old and broke sleeping on the floor again, I'd be all about AI, just like I taught myself programming before.

• 50:48Emma Grede?

  So if you had nothing right now, you just had a thousand bucks and a laptop, you'd be on the AI trail.

• 50:53Speaker 01

  If I had access to a library.

• 50:55Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 50:55Speaker 01

  And zero dollars, I would be all about AI. I'd be in there till they kicked me out, eating my ribs, you know?

• 51:02Emma Grede?

  Yeah, with the ribs.

• 51:03Speaker 01

  Yep, um, till they kicked me out.

• 51:05Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 51:05Speaker 01

  And then I knew that I'd know that I can walk into any small business and say, I know you don't know AI. And I know you're hearing about it and you've messed with chat GPT some and you're not really sure how to use it. Just like back then, I said, here, let me show you how to use a computer and connect them together to be more profitable, etc. That's exactly what I would do.

• 51:24Emma Grede?

  What do you think that the best founders do that separates them from everyone else?

• 51:29Speaker 01

  They love their product or service so much, they just love to sell it. They realize they're not convincing somebody, they realize they're helping somebody. You're gonna look good in those clothes. Let me show you how and why. You're gonna look good using this software. You're gonna look good, you know, using this A will be make you more productive or profitable. You're gonna be smarter when you're done reading this book, whatever it is, you know. They are so convinced that their product is going to make people's lives better. Why wouldn't they want to sell it and talk to as many people as they could?

• 52:01Emma Grede?

  I love that. What do you think, Mark, separates, I guess, somebody that has a real viable business idea from somebody that has like a hobby? Like, how do you, how do you know when something is like, this is a thing that I can turn into like an actual viable business?

• 52:18Speaker 01

  There's two pieces there. If you're so committed, you're dreaming about it. You dreamt about your business, right?

• 52:24Emma Grede?

  Over and over and over.

• 52:25Speaker 01

  You would wake up and you'd write yourself notes because you didn't want to forget what you dreamed.

• 52:28Emma Grede?

  All the time.

• 52:28Speaker 01

  All the time.

• 52:29Emma Grede?

  All the time.

• 52:30Speaker 01

  Same, right to this.

• 52:31Emma Grede?

  I cannot tell you, all the time.

• 52:33Speaker 01

  Exactly. That's how you know. And then you've got to see if it's a real business because you might be so, you know, caught up in it, um, but who knows if anybody.

• 52:41Emma Grede?

  How do you know if something is viable?

• 52:43Speaker 01

  People are buying it.

• 52:45Emma Grede?

  That's it. People are buying it. That's simple.

• 52:48Speaker 01

  You know, Venmo you, they'll send you money.

• 52:50Emma Grede?

  That's it.

• 52:51Speaker 01

  That's it. How else do you know?

• 52:53Emma Grede?

  That's simple.

• 52:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, like you, you know, you started, you sold a few, right? Then you went to, I started with one customer. Once I got my one customer, then I can have enough money to go get software for the second company. Damon John talks about selling T-shirts on the corner. And then once he sold, you know, his lot that he had, you use that money. I think people think it's gonna happen.

• 53:12Emma Grede?

  Oh, yeah. Everyone feels like it's some overnight.

• 53:15Speaker 01

  Grind, it's a slow grind.

• 53:17Emma Grede?

  I talk about this all the time in my own business, but certainly on Shark Tank. What is the difference between someone that should just continue to climb the corporate ladder and someone that should go out on their own? Like, do you see that very clearly?

• 53:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, what are you good at? You know, people tend not to quit things they're good at. People tend to get rewarded for things they're good at. And whatever it is that makes you good or got you to be good, just do more of it. Now, you may reach, you know, a level where you can't go higher for any number of different reasons. And then, you know, you can look at going to a competitor, going somewhere else, or starting something on your own. But when you're good at something and you're moving up the ladder and, you know, you're getting results, there's a really good chance that you, or at least you should be rewarded. And, you know, that's a good reason to stick with it.

• 54:04Emma Grede?

  I feel like there's just for so many people, they'll be in a corporate job, feeling that they're not getting properly rewarded. But that's not the reason to necessarily go and start up on your own.

• 54:13Speaker 01

  I mean, you could, that's what weekends are for. That's what nights are for. Should I quit my job? When do I know I should quit my job? You don't until you know you have a company.

• 54:22Emma Grede?

  Don't.

• 54:23Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 54:23Emma Grede?

  And when do you know you've got a company?

• 54:25Speaker 01

  When the money starts.

• 54:26Emma Grede?

  When the money starts going in. But it's as simple as that. So what, so what do you say to people then? They're like, okay, I've got my day job. I've got my side hustle. I'm working on the weekends. I'm seeing some customers. Where is the, when and where is the time to go, okay, now I've got to apply myself fully?

• 54:43Speaker 01

  I mean, when you see your bank account.

• 54:45Emma Grede?

  Are you making it that simple for everyone?

• 54:47Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 54:47Emma Grede?

  You're like, when you can afford to live.

• 54:48Speaker 01

  Do you think differently?

• 54:50Emma Grede?

  No, I think it's really difficult for people because, you know, sometimes you can get stuck between a rock and a hard place, right? And I think the hardest thing is actually when you've got a business that doesn't take off. When something takes off.

• 55:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, then it's easy.

• 55:01Emma Grede?

  You've got total clarity. When you've got something where you're like, well, you know, I only work on this for like 10 hours a week. And if I could apply myself a little bit more, you end up in that, you know.

• 55:10Speaker 01

  Usually you know, right? Because, you know, at that point in time, it's typically, all right, I need more inventory, right? Or there's something, whatever it is.

• 55:18Emma Grede?

  There's like a barrier.

• 55:18Speaker 01

  Right, there's a barrier. And then you deal with that barrier and you may need your job to pay for more inventory. You may need to say, okay, I gotta save my money so I have more inventory for my company. Whatever that barrier is, that's what you deal with.

• 55:32Emma Grede?

  Yeah, that's, that's what you've got to deal with. I mean, I think there's a lot of headlines right now about people, you know, like graduates that are unemployed. And I just wonder what you would say or what your advice would be for new people that are entering the world of business.

• 55:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, you know. A, go find a job because you just spent four years paying to learn, right? Have a job. It doesn't have to be a perfect job, but you're getting paid to learn. I mean, yeah, you're getting paid to learn after paying to learn, right? You spent all that tuition money. So whatever business you go into, wherever you work, you're gonna learn stuff. If you go in with the attitude that, okay, it's just a job, I just, you know, go home. But if you go in thinking, okay, this is a company. This is somebody's operating this company. I may be ten layers down, but at least I can see what they do and learn some things on how they approach it. And I might think to myself nine months later, ten months later, okay, I've learned what I think I can learn here. I don't, I don't like it, you know, go get another job.

• 56:28Emma Grede?

  I love, I think that's really valuable advice. And if I think, if I think back to my twenties where I worked a corporate job for years, that's what it taught me. It taught me like, how do you run a business actually quite badly?

• 56:39Speaker 01

  And sometimes you learn what not to do, yeah.

• 56:40Emma Grede?

  And I really did. It's like, well, that doesn't make sense. And they're giving it away over there and this, you know. But it was a great kind of training ground for me because I really understood.

• 56:47Speaker 01

  I learned more what not to do than what to do when I worked in corporate America. And but that's what I think people get caught up in. You know, I'm not fully fulfilled. Well, you're getting paid to learn. You spent your four years in college, if that's what you did.

• 57:01Emma Grede?

  But that's the mindset shift, right? It's like, you're getting paid to learn. Not like, I'm not fulfilled. This is not like, you know, my purpose in life. It's not supposed to be your purpose. It's a check. And if you can appreciate it, it's like, I'm learning every day here. It's a different thing.

• 57:12Speaker 01

  Yes, because whatever you start, whatever you start, right, you're gonna have to go through a learning process.

• 57:16Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 57:16Speaker 01

  Using chat GPT or not, you're gonna have to go through a learning process. And if you can do it on somebody else's dime, and if in your back of your mind, you know, I want to be an entrepreneur like I did, I was always looking at that stuff because I knew I wanted to have my own company at some point. So every day was a chance for me to learn. You know, even if it got me fired. And, you know, I think now it's not any different. And when I graduated from college, the unimportant.

• 57:42Emma Grede?

  Do you think it isn't any different?

• 57:43Speaker 01

  No.

• 57:44Emma Grede?

  Really?

• 57:45Speaker 01

  No, like when I graduated from college.

• 57:46Emma Grede?

  You don't think there was just like so much more opportunity years ago?

• 57:49Speaker 01

  No, hell no.

• 57:50Emma Grede?

  Really?

• 57:51Speaker 01

  Hell no.

• 57:52Emma Grede?

  Oh, I'll challenge you on that one.

• 57:54Speaker 01

  Okay, fire away.

• 57:54Emma Grede?

  I mean, so, okay, so I think that, for example, if you went back thirty years, for me, it seemed like there was just so much less competition, no?

• 58:05Speaker 01

  Well, just because it wasn't all online where you can see it, you know?

• 58:09Emma Grede?

  That's true. That's, that's fair.

• 58:10Speaker 01

  And but now.

• 58:12Emma Grede?

  Isn't that so much part of it, Mark? Because like the fear for so many people is what they know. And sometimes what you don't know, like I feel like my naivety in the beginning of starting a business was my biggest superpower because you don't know what you don't know. So I was like, oh, yeah.

• 58:25Speaker 01

  You didn't know to be afraid of this or that. Yes, for sure. But think about, you know, going to your question, right? Back then, you needed a whole lot more money to get started.

• 58:32Emma Grede?

  True.

• 58:32Speaker 01

  Right now, if you have a phone and ChatGPT.

• 58:38Emma Grede?

  Cost of entry is low, yeah.

• 58:39Speaker 01

  Nothing. It is nothing. Shopify, right? Amazon, whatever, right? Moles were more expensive. You couldn't just send it to China. Everything was more expensive. To make shit was a lot harder, more expensive. You couldn't just go online like with, you know, and just learn all this shit.

• 58:57Emma Grede?

  You were reading manuals.

• 58:58Speaker 01

  I would literally, I would read the fucking manual.

• 59:01Emma Grede?

  Catalogue and the bucket of ribs. Yes, yes, yes.

• 59:04Speaker 01

  And I was sitting in bookstores. I would literally go into bookstores, grab this magazine, grab this magazine, grab that book, go grab that book, hide in the corner and read all day because I couldn't afford to buy that shit.

• 59:15Emma Grede?

  Yeah, there was no blinkist summary on something, that's for sure.

• 59:17Speaker 01

  And there was no shortcuts. There were no life hacks that like get you there. So now it may be harder because there's more competition, but to get started,

• 59:28Speaker 01

  there's, there was no businesses back then. You could start with no money down unless you were just selling your time. You know, I'm shoveling driveways, going door to door, whatever, right? Now, get your, your Shopify, and if you sell something, then you go to the manufacturer or you go to the distributor and you drop ship it.

• 59:46Emma Grede?

  There's ways.

• 59:47Speaker 01

  There's ways.

• 59:47Emma Grede?

  There's ways. What's something that you wish every first time founder knew?

• 59:52Speaker 01

  Sales cures all.

• 59:54Emma Grede?

  Sales cures all.

• 59:56Speaker 01

  No sales, no company.

• 59:57Emma Grede?

  That's it.

• 59:58Speaker 01

  No exceptions to that rule.

• 59:59Emma Grede?

  People get a moored with all the other stuff, a moored with their model, the marketing, and it's like, you need sales. I talk about this all the time. It's like, focus on distribution, focus on your sales, focus on like, owning that story and just being the best salesperson possible, because that's all you need at the end of the day.

• 1:00:16Speaker 01

  If you can sell.

• 1:00:17Emma Grede?

  Yeah, you'll figure the rest out.

• 1:00:18Speaker 01

  Yes, because everything else is not a problem. Follows through to that sale. If you can't sell, it doesn't matter what you're good at. It doesn't matter anything else for that matter. You're stuck.

• 1:00:28Emma Grede?

  Why do you think people avoid that?

• 1:00:31Speaker 01

  Because people don't like to be told no.

• 1:00:33Emma Grede?

  Oh.

• 1:00:34Speaker 01

  You know, I I tell people all the time, every no gets you closer to a yes. Every no, and I would tell that to myself. I was selling magazines door to door, right? And I'd walk up, are you telling me that for five dollars a week, this wasn't going to improve the education enjoyment of your family? No.

• 1:00:50Emma Grede?

  Bye, on to the next one.

• 1:00:52Speaker 01

  And it's the same, selling math tickets, you know, when I first liked the maths. Hey, it's less than McDonald's. No, you guys suck. Boom, on to the next. Right? You you've just got to be relentless and most people are afraid of the word no.

• 1:01:05Emma Grede?

  Are you afraid to give the word no? Because I feel like getting the feedback is really hard. You just give the feedback, right?

• 1:01:11Speaker 01

  No, I don't like to say no to people. That's my problem. That's why I don't do hiring in my companies.

• 1:01:15Emma Grede?

  Oh, is that true?

• 1:01:17Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, because I'm awful at hiring people.

• 1:01:20Emma Grede?

  You're just like, come on board. You're amazing.

• 1:01:22Speaker 01

  I'm a sales guy, right? So like, I think I can make this work.

• 1:01:26Emma Grede?

  What is the truth then in entrepreneurship that no one actually tells you?

• 1:01:30Speaker 01

  The truth that no one.

• 1:01:31Emma Grede?

  What's the truth?

• 1:01:33Speaker 01

  It's hard.

• 1:01:35Speaker 01

  You know, it's it's there's, I think, you're not automatically going to make money. Most people don't make it. Most people fail. It's hard.

• 1:01:43Emma Grede?

  Yeah, that's, I think, what I've seen, and it's interesting, actually, as you go into the tank, because even if you think an idea is a great one and you think it has a market, like, not everything works out. And you can give the funding and it just for, I don't know, a myriad of reasons might not work.

• 1:01:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, most companies.

• 1:01:59Emma Grede?

  Have you failed?

• 1:02:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, of course I've failed. You you never heard about my powdered milk company?

• 1:02:03Emma Grede?

  No.

• 1:02:04Speaker 01

  Started out of college.

• 1:02:06Emma Grede?

  Not a good one?

• 1:02:07Speaker 01

  Not a good one. It was cheaper. It didn't matter if it didn't taste like milk. It was powdered milk.

• 1:02:11Emma Grede?

  All right. Tell me about the powdered milk company. Well, I want to know about the failure. I want to know what it, what does it mean to fail and get back up and do it again? Like, what is it in you that allows you to take the failure and it not be about you?

• 1:02:25Speaker 01

  Damon John says it best. It's the power of broke. If you're broke, what else are you going to do? I mean, I was eating mustard and ketchup sandwiches. I was going to a bar with five dollars, buying one beer and eating all the fried mushrooms and the peanuts and whatever shit they offer.

• 1:02:42Emma Grede?

  Broke is great for a period of your life.

• 1:02:44Speaker 01

  Yes, right? Cause you've learned. Yeah.

• 1:02:47Emma Grede?

  Yeah, it's really true. But what have you learned? Do you feel like the failures that you've had, have they amounted to something that you've been able to see? Like as a pattern in your life? Or is it more just about the individual circumstance? Cause I feel like I could look at every failure I've had and I'm like, basically the same thing.

• 1:03:05Speaker 01

  I don't know if it was basically the same thing, other than maybe the shit didn't sell, right?

• 1:03:10Emma Grede?

  It's that.

• 1:03:11Speaker 01

  Powdered milk?

• 1:03:12Emma Grede?

  Yeah, it didn't sell.

• 1:03:13Speaker 01

  It did not sell. I remember taking samples to people, mixing it up, like, look, milk's expensive. We're broke, right? To save you money.

• 1:03:21Emma Grede?

  Here's some gravy shit.

• 1:03:23Speaker 01

  And just seeing the look on their face.

• 1:03:25Emma Grede?

  No, you can do about that.

• 1:03:29Speaker 01

  Point taken.

• 1:03:30Emma Grede?

  You're like, I got it.

• 1:03:32Speaker 01

  But it's just you. Your taste in milk is different, right?

• 1:03:35Emma Grede?

  All right. So how long? Because this, this out of luck.

• 1:03:37Speaker 01

  About a month.

• 1:03:37Emma Grede?

  How? A month?

• 1:03:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, about a month.

• 1:03:39Emma Grede?

  Yeah, but isn't that the thing? At least you didn't try to do that for a year. Cause some people just don't know how to step away.

• 1:03:44Speaker 01

  There were no sales. It was going nowhere, you know?

• 1:03:47Emma Grede?

  I know, but people don't always hear that. Don't you think? Like, you must deal with a lot of early stage founders that just don't read the signs. They don't see it. And I think it's really important to talk a bit about failure and to talk about when it's time to pack it in.

• 1:04:02Speaker 01

  That, you know, I never really thought of it that way, but you're right. You have to have a lot of self-awareness to be an entrepreneur. You have to know what you don't know, unless, you know, it's early, but.

• 1:04:13Speaker 01

  Once you get going in particular, you have to know what you suck at. And you need to know how to get people to complement your skills. I think a lot of times entrepreneurs think, you know, I can do it all, which at the beginning you pretty much have to. But as you grow and you're trying to scale your business, if you have any success at all, you need to know what you're not good at and you need to find people who complement your skills. And I think one of the mistakes entrepreneurs make sometimes is they won't bring in people with expertise that they don't have to be their startup partners. You know, I'm not gonna give up some of my company. You know, the thing that cracks me up, I can't tell you my idea, you might steal it.

• 1:04:52Emma Grede?

  I'm like, trust me, I won't.

• 1:04:55Emma Grede?

  I promise you.

• 1:04:56Speaker 01

  I'm like, fine, then don't tell me. Next.

• 1:04:59Emma Grede?

  Yeah, on to the next one. But it's a great question, actually, like just to understand the mistake that so many first time founders make. And I feel like if I look back at my history, I'm an overly optimistic person and I feel like I can wheel anything.

• 1:05:16Speaker 01

  Anything is on the same way. I can make a work.

• 1:05:17Emma Grede?

  And sometimes I'm like, Emma, you can't wheel that powdered milk. Like that's just not gonna happen.

• 1:05:22Speaker 01

  Anything, right?

• 1:05:23Emma Grede?

  Honestly, and sometimes that'll get in your way, but I've learned that about myself.

• 1:05:27Speaker 01

  And you learn, right? But it's okay to bang your head against the wall like that and learn.

• 1:05:31Emma Grede?

  Yes, so long as you learn.

• 1:05:33Speaker 01

  As long, look, I say this all the time on Shark Tank, doesn't matter how many times you fail, you only have to be right one time. Just one time.

• 1:05:41Emma Grede?

  What are you spending most of your time on now? When you, you know, because it's like you're in a whole new stage of your life where you've made decisions that are all about what you wanna do and how you wanna spend your time. And I'm curious as to your routine, what you do in a day, what you need to get out of a day.

• 1:05:57Speaker 01

  Beg my children to spend time with me, basically.

• 1:05:59Emma Grede?

  Please, you wanna hang out? Please, I'll fly you to the game.

• 1:06:02Speaker 01

  Whatever, right? Seriously, it's like, can we go to lunch?

• 1:06:08Speaker 01

  You know, let's go to the.

• 1:06:10Emma Grede?

  It's so if your kids only knew how many people wanted to go to lunch with you.

• 1:06:13Speaker 01

  Oh, of course, right?

• 1:06:14Emma Grede?

  We should tell them, kids, figure it out.

• 1:06:16Speaker 01

  Well, and part of the downside is they know if we go out, then I gotta deal with people, right?

• 1:06:19Emma Grede?

  That's true.

• 1:06:20Speaker 01

  You know, and so I feel bad for them on that end of it. It's like I always have to have the conversation, you know, if your friends get drunk and screw up, nobody cares. You're my kid, it's gonna be on the front page.

• 1:06:31Emma Grede?

  Sorry, kids.

• 1:06:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's the responsibility you bear. And sometimes they don't wanna go out and they'll go, I'll go with mom, but I don't wanna deal with the dad and you know, that's kinda heartbreaking.

• 1:06:41Emma Grede?

  Yes, I can imagine that that really is heartbreaking, actually. It's really difficult for them, but that's really what you're optimizing for, to spend time with your kids.

• 1:06:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, and like I said, and the AI stuff, I mean, I really get into it, obviously, and it's like, you know, knowledge truly is power. And knowing how to use these tools is everything.

• 1:07:01Emma Grede?

  It is gonna be everything. When someone asks you what you do now, what do you even say?

• 1:07:05Speaker 01

  Um, I do a lot of emails from all the different companies. I've got, and we haven't talked about costplusdrugs.com yet, right? That's a big.

• 1:07:13Emma Grede?

  Oh, well, I really wanted to ask you about costplusdrugs.com. I mean, are you, okay, so this is, this was my thing, Mark, because I, um, I know you're a very political person and I saw, I mean, I've cut Mark, you know. Like, I saw you out there, I thought, first of all, I do not understand why you're not the president of this country. And I, I know everybody asks you, but are you a hundred percent sure?

• 1:07:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:35Emma Grede?

  You're not gonna run?

• 1:07:35Speaker 01

  I wouldn't put my kids through it.

• 1:07:37Emma Grede?

  Really, you're not gonna run for president just for us?

• 1:07:40Speaker 01

  Just for you?

• 1:07:41Emma Grede?

  Just for, just for me?

• 1:07:42Speaker 01

  Maybe if you ask me really nicely, no.

• 1:07:43Emma Grede?

  Just for my whole family that are like, you know, don't you want?

• 1:07:46Speaker 01

  I get asked every day.

• 1:07:48Emma Grede?

  Is it every day, that much?

• 1:07:50Speaker 01

  Lots of times a day.

• 1:07:51Emma Grede?

  Okay, fine, then I won't bug you back, but you've really considered it hard.

• 1:07:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, for a while I did, yeah, it's just.

• 1:07:56Emma Grede?

  Not for you?

• 1:07:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, my whole life, I never got into politics.

• 1:07:59Emma Grede?

  Do you have the feeling that if you run, you would win?

• 1:08:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:03Emma Grede?

  Yeah, hundred percent, me too.

• 1:08:04Speaker 01

  I know, that may sound arrogant.

• 1:08:05Emma Grede?

  It's not arrogant, I think it's a fact. It's like, I could guarantee, I would bet on you and Michelle Obama, boom, as the president.

• 1:08:11Speaker 01

  Michelle better suited than I am, but.

• 1:08:13Emma Grede?

  I mean, I don't think she necessarily wants to do that. We won't speak on her behalf.

• 1:08:16Speaker 01

  Right, right, right.

• 1:08:16Emma Grede?

  I, I think if, even if you wanted it, you'd have it.

• 1:08:19Speaker 01

  I mean, the running part would be fun, you know, but just. Every but just the shit my family would go through.

• 1:08:25Emma Grede?

  Fair.

• 1:08:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, if I was single, yeah, I would do it, you know. If my kids were forty years old.

• 1:08:30Emma Grede?

  Yeah, different. Well, there's still time. Your kids will be forty one of these days.

• 1:08:33Speaker 01

  One of these days.

• 1:08:34Emma Grede?

  Just saying, just saying. All right, back to Costco's drugs because I saw that President Trump had made this announcement about leveling the the cost of, you know, prescription drugs, right? And so it immediately made me think of you.

• 1:08:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:47Emma Grede?

  Is that problematic for your business?

• 1:08:48Speaker 01

  No, it's great.

• 1:08:49Emma Grede?

  It is?

• 1:08:49Speaker 01

  It is great. Yeah. So let's say what Costco's drugs does.

• 1:08:51Emma Grede?

  Please, tell me.

• 1:08:52Speaker 01

  Everybody likes their doctors and all that stuff, but nobody likes the financial side of healthcare. It's a mess, right? You have to deal with benefits and all that stuff and there's no upside.

• 1:09:01Emma Grede?

  Well, as an English person, we still don't understand it. You know that. We we get eye drops for four pounds, four dollars, you know, no.

• 1:09:07Speaker 01

  Gives you everything.

• 1:09:08Emma Grede?

  I could I will never understand what it costs in America to get like something that for my entire life I've taken totally for granted.

• 1:09:16Speaker 01

  Well, it may be cheaper over here now.

• 1:09:18Emma Grede?

  He is hoping.

• 1:09:18Speaker 01

  Through Costco's drugs. Um, so anyways, nobody likes the financial side because you don't know what anything costs. There's no transparency. So we created Costco's drugs dot com. And so you go to Costco, you put in the name of the medication. We don't carry Amal yet. Um, we've got like twenty five hundred different SKUs. And if we carry it up, it pops up, right? Like your eye drops. And then we'll show you our actual cost. And then we'll show you our markup, which is fifteen percent. And you have your choice of mail order. If it's mail order, it's five dollars for the pharmacist, five dollars for shipping and handling. Shows up in a couple of days, or you can go to a local pharmacy if if we're that's it, right? But by being transparent, we changed the game. By only having a fifteen percent markup, people trust us.

• 1:10:00Speaker 01

  Like I read this thing one time and I firmly I'd hold a hold firmly stick by it now. Trust equals transparency divided by self-interest, right?

• 1:10:11Emma Grede?

  Wow, that's a really powerful statement.

• 1:10:13Speaker 01

  Or how much you doing for your customers, basically, right? So our markup's only fifteen.

• 1:10:17Emma Grede?

  Say that one more time for me, Mark. That's so good.

• 1:10:19Speaker 01

  Trust equals, it's a formula. Trust equals transparency. How transparent are you on a scale of one to ten?

• 1:10:26Emma Grede?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:10:26Speaker 01

  Costco's drugs is a ten, right? And then self-interest. How much do you put yourself ahead of your customers or how much you put your customers first?

• 1:10:34Emma Grede?

  That's really powerful.

• 1:10:35Speaker 01

  Right, our markup is only fifteen percent. People are like, that's fair. Right, so you get to see the total cost right there. And we publish our full price list. And so by doing that, we've just exploded. And we've changed people's lives and you know, on the my professional side, I mean, there's nothing more rewarding. I get emails all the time.

• 1:10:55Emma Grede?

  I can't imagine.

• 1:10:56Speaker 01

  You know, I was going to spend nine hundred dollars on this medication for my cancer. And I couldn't afford it. I go to Costco drugs and it's twenty one dollars. I mean, or you save me fifteen thousand dollars a month, right? It's insane. And so, you know, Costco drugs comes along and we've just been around for three years. So now let's tie it back to what the administration's doing. They want the cost of medications to be the same as they are overseas. Well, on generics, which is most of our SKUs, we're already cheaper. Like, most of the generics that you would have to buy in the UK were cheaper. Go to Canada, we're cheaper, just because the way generics are structured. But for brand name drugs, it's a mess.

• 1:11:38Emma Grede?

  Right.

• 1:11:39Speaker 01

  And so the, there's these things called pharmacy benefit managers that are the middlemen, who are keeping the big pharma manufacturers from working with us. Because they know if we introduce transparency, it'll screw up the game for them.

• 1:11:52Emma Grede?

  It's over.

• 1:11:52Speaker 01

  So now with this stuff from the administration and wanting to match those prices, now the manufacturers of those brands, they're, they think they can get out from under the thumb of these middlemen, the pharmacy benefit managers, and work directly with us. And I think it'll happen, it looks like it'll happen. So if that happens, a lot of these brand medication prices.

• 1:12:13Emma Grede?

  They're gonna tumble.

• 1:12:14Speaker 01

  They're gonna.

• 1:12:14Emma Grede?

  I mean, it's a win-win for consumers, basically.

• 1:12:16Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 1:12:17Emma Grede?

  And why did you choose this category for a new business? Because it's kind of outside of everything that you've done in technology and.

• 1:12:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, because, I mean, I saw an opportunity to disrupt something that's really fucked up.

• 1:12:29Emma Grede?

  It's really fucked up.

• 1:12:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:30Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:31Speaker 01

  Yeah. So we're trying to simplify it through transparency. Like for my employees, there's no co-pays. For my employees, if you do your stuff through our network, right? If you do your stuff, if you buy your drugs through Cost Plus Drugs, there's no co-pay. We pay for all of it. And now we're setting up this direct contracting with hospitals and doctors and everything. And I can get all that stuff to you guys. So that there's no out of pocket for our employees for anything that we cover. There's no pre-authorizations at all. Because we're willing to work directly with the hospitals and cut out the middlemen. We pay them a lot less. We just pay them upfront.

• 1:13:03Emma Grede?

  It's seriously, seriously impressive. And it's pretty noble, actually, to be doing this at this stage of your career.

• 1:13:08Speaker 01

  I'm not doing it to make money, right? I don't need the money. But the whole idea of fucking up healthcare?

• 1:13:12Emma Grede?

  I mean, that's exciting.

• 1:13:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's fun, right?

• 1:13:14Emma Grede?

  I love that you always come back to fun. That's gonna be my big takeout from you, actually. Because it's all about you having fun in whatever you're doing.

• 1:13:21Speaker 01

  Right? Like when you see somebody wearing your stuff.

• 1:13:23Emma Grede?

  Oh, it, nothing makes me happier. Also, nothing makes my husband happy. Because what happens to us in restaurants is that people come up and they flash us. You know, they go, "Skims!" And you know, he kind of puts his head down and pretends he's looking at his dinner. I'm like, "This is working out really well for you."

• 1:13:37Speaker 01

  Right?

• 1:13:38Emma Grede?

  That's basically my life right now. People just flashing me their bras.

• 1:13:42Speaker 01

  Perfect.

• 1:13:43Emma Grede?

  And I wonder if you have any regrets at all? Because you've done so many things, so many impressive things. Is there something that you missed or something that?

• 1:13:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's lots of stuff that I missed, right?

• 1:13:53Emma Grede?

  You don't dwell?

• 1:13:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I don't really dwell on it. I try to learn from it, just not repeat it. I wasn't nice enough when I was first getting started, you know? I literally had one of my partners say, "People are afraid of you." You know, I didn't listen all the time, you know, because I was focused on doing what I was focused on. You know, and so I missed things. And, you know, that negatively impacted people who worked for me. So there was a lot of mistakes that I've made. And you just, that's just inevitable. You know, and I wish I could have done it differently. And if I had to do it all over again, I would do it differently. But it's it's done and I try to learn from it.

• 1:14:28Emma Grede?

  But you really have learned from it because if, and I mean this in all seriousness, you are one of the nicest people I know.

• 1:14:35Speaker 01

  You just don't, you know me well, but you just don't see me when I'm like, fuck you, don't do that.

• 1:14:40Emma Grede?

  I hope I never see you like that.

• 1:14:41Speaker 01

  No, I don't do that. Those days are gone, but I used to.

• 1:14:43Emma Grede?

  But it's, but it must, it must be something that you've really decided like, I'm gonna be a nice guy. Cause that really is who you are now.

• 1:14:50Speaker 01

  People would rather work with you if you're nice.

• 1:14:51Emma Grede?

  Of course. I mean, I've always taken the opposite point of view because I feel like, you know, you get, you get more of honey, like you're just gonna be nice and like people are gonna do more for you. They're gonna be nicer to you.

• 1:15:02Speaker 01

  No one likes to deal with people that piss them off or they hate.

• 1:15:05Emma Grede?

  No, he acts an asshole. And I'm really interested because you talk about your kids so much. And I wonder what you're teaching them.

• 1:15:12Speaker 01

  That's a good question.

• 1:15:16Speaker 01

  Sometimes it feels like nothing.

• 1:15:19Speaker 01

  They're good kids. I've got to say, my kids are really good. My oldest is a junior in college, my middle's just graduated from high school last week. And my son, my youngest, is going to be a sophomore in high school. And so they know everything, obviously.

• 1:15:34Emma Grede?

  Yes, they do.

• 1:15:35Speaker 01

  And I'm trying to like, just be there as much as I can and participate as much as I can, as much as they'll let me, you know? So I don't mind sofreing my son wherever he needs to go or driving. You know, if any of my kids wants to do something, you know, unless I just humanly can't, the answer is yes. And so, um, yeah, that, that to me, other than cost plus, you know, learning and doing what I do professionally. But family wise, just trying to, you know, spend as much time with my kids and family.

• 1:16:11Emma Grede?

  And I am, because I spent such a long time sitting next to you and trying to extrapolate bits of information. I feel to be remiss not for me to try something today. And so I feel like I'm in a bit of a chapter change. I've always looked at my life, it's like I have my consultant life, I have my like, you know, business, uh, starting businesses life, but now I'm in a bit of a different chapter. And I wonder what you would say to somebody like me, given everything that you've learned.

• 1:16:35Speaker 01

  What chapter are you in?

• 1:16:36Emma Grede?

  Well, you know, it's an interesting one because I feel like, you know, I love what I do. I really, really do. I love these businesses. But I'm definitely at the stage where. Working kind of sixteen hour days and filling every forty minute, you know, section of my day.

• 1:16:56Speaker 01

  And make sure it's all right, yeah.

• 1:16:56Emma Grede?

  It's it's really, it's really difficult. And I'm in the time of my life, you know, I have a eleven year old and an eight year old and twin three year olds. And so I'm looking for very purposefully for a different type of rhythm to my day. Certainly not to say I'm going into a time.

• 1:17:11Speaker 01

  No, no, I get that, right? No, I know exactly what you're saying.

• 1:17:13Emma Grede?

  Business into me, but a different rhythm, like more opportunity to indulge in the things that I love and also share the things that I have learned.

• 1:17:21Speaker 01

  The answer, you've got to learn how to trust. You've heard this before, probably a lot, right? Because when you're really, really, really good at something and you know it takes more time to convey it to somebody and wait for their answer and then explain what you want.

• 1:17:37Emma Grede?

  And you just want to do it yourself.

• 1:17:38Speaker 01

  Let's just get it done, right? Because we've got other shit to do.

• 1:17:41Emma Grede?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:17:42Speaker 01

  And so, like I said, I suck at hiring. And so I had to get help with having somebody that I trusted to hire the people that I know we needed. Even if it meant, you know, turning over that person multiple times. Because you've got to find you, you've got to find your mini me's and be able to trust them.

• 1:18:01Emma Grede?

  So hard.

• 1:18:02Speaker 01

  It is really hard.

• 1:18:03Emma Grede?

  It's so hard.

• 1:18:04Speaker 01

  Especially when it's a go, go, go, go, go business. Um, but that's what you got to do. Because otherwise you're doomed to sixteen hours a day forever.

• 1:18:12Emma Grede?

  Forever. Yeah. And it doesn't stop.

• 1:18:15Speaker 01

  And it doesn't need to be a magical. And what I've always tried to do, and like I said, I don't really hire, but I I'm good at promoting people, right? And starting with somebody, getting to know them and trying to, you know, get them into new skills that they can grow with and I can grow with them. So that, you know, who is the one person that caught your attention in one of those hours in that sixteen hour day that can deal with that issue that you can train or support? Or they can just tag along with you till they get there and you trust them. And but and then you've got to be honest with them. Here's why I'm doing it. It may or may not work. And if it doesn't work, doesn't mean I'm gonna fire you. But you may be disappointed that you're not that person, the way I need that person to be.

• 1:18:57Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:58Speaker 01

  No knock on you. You know, this is just a very specific role that I need. That's what you've got to do, because it's hard. Hard in your situation where you've gotten like this. And now you gotta fight.

• 1:19:11Emma Grede?

  You gotta fight. Every day's a fight.

• 1:19:12Speaker 01

  Because whenever you see this for even a day or a week or a month.

• 1:19:15Emma Grede?

  You're like, then you have to go fully back in.

• 1:19:17Speaker 01

  Right. And it's just like, what the fuck's going on?

• 1:19:18Emma Grede?

  Yeah, and it's exhausting.

• 1:19:19Speaker 01

  And it is exhausting, because you have people that gave you money, and now you're responsible to them. And they're trying to get their ROI, and they wanna know why this isn't happening. And you've got your budgets, and it's driving you crazy that you've got a budget that somebody else is also wants to know, instead of just you knowing it.

• 1:19:33Emma Grede?

  Feel like you've been here before, Mark.

• 1:19:34Speaker 01

  Right. And it's just like, but you took that money, right?

• 1:19:37Emma Grede?

  You took that money. You gotta make a few days, you gotta have a result. That's just it. But it's a great lesson for an entrepreneur and for founders, because if you don't trust people, you can't grow. Like, there's no one that does it alone.

• 1:19:49Speaker 01

  Right?

• 1:19:50Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:51Speaker 01

  Everybody's got.

• 1:19:51Emma Grede?

  It's all about where you are.

• 1:19:52Speaker 01

  Right. Because individually, you have a life cycle. Literally, like what you can tolerate, and what you've done, and what you've accomplished, and the risk reward for your time. Because your time value goes like this as you get older. And the money, if you made enough money, it starts to, you know, unless you're a person that just needs more and more and more, and I don't get that sense, right? So now it's about your time. But it's also about the obligation. Because I always say raising money isn't an accomplishment, it's an obligation.

• 1:20:17Emma Grede?

  It's an obligation.

• 1:20:19Speaker 01

  And so.

• 1:20:19Emma Grede?

  Ain't that the truth?

• 1:20:20Speaker 01

  Right. And so now you have this obligation. And so the good news about it, in having it, is that, like you said, industries go in phases. And you still have to find those people who help you adapt to the next phase. You know, so what's hot and what's next, and, you know, for Gen Z, and the 15-year-olds are gonna be different than the 25-year-olds. And so trying to find those people, that's, that's the challenge. And that become, that, you know, here I am trying to give you a vibe, right? But that's the part you gotta figure out how to conquer. How do you hire those people to put you in that position? And what's the learning process to get there?

• 1:20:55Emma Grede?

  Yes.

• 1:20:56Speaker 01

  To be able to do it? Because if you don't do it, you already know what happens.

• 1:21:01Emma Grede?

  You're doomed, you're stuck.

• 1:21:01Speaker 01

  You implode.

• 1:21:02Emma Grede?

  You're stuck.

• 1:21:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:21:03Emma Grede?

  Yeah, and it's really interesting because I feel like one of the things that I spend the most time on is hiring. Because it is when you get a person that comes into your business and you can truly trust them. It's like an unlock, right? You're like, and hopefully they're teaching you when you get people that are really seasoned and real specialists.

• 1:21:21Speaker 01

  Then it's the worst thing ever.

• 1:21:23Emma Grede?

  It's the worst.

• 1:21:23Speaker 01

  Because it's a reflection on you that you did it wrong. And then everybody else knows it's wrong.

• 1:21:28Emma Grede?

  And you make mistakes all the time and it doesn't matter. I make mistakes all the time. Every year, there's a handful of people that I'm like, this is just not gonna work. And they were good somewhere else and they had the experience and on paper they were amazing and they were fully vetted and da, da, da, da, da, da, da. But it doesn't work out. For whatever reason, it doesn't work out. That's when I talk about you've got to kill your darlings. Like just get it done.

• 1:21:48Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, you always hire slow, fire fast.

• 1:21:50Emma Grede?

  That's the one. Ain't it just?

• 1:21:52Speaker 01

  And you adjust.

• 1:21:53Emma Grede?

  Um, I wonder what is left in your life for you to accomplish?

• 1:21:57Speaker 01

  Well, I'm just getting started.

• 1:21:58Emma Grede?

  Do you feel like that?

• 1:21:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, of course. Yeah, don't let the wrinkles fool you, right?

• 1:22:04Emma Grede?

  I love that. You feel like you're just getting started.

• 1:22:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, like I get these, you know, these requests. We want to give you a lifetime achievement award in tech. We want to give you an honor for the.

• 1:22:13Emma Grede?

  You're like.

• 1:22:14Speaker 01

  Fuck, no. I don't, yeah, I'm like, no, I'm not taking awards. Like I take two awards. Um, and I always say no to the rest. I just don't do awards because I'm just getting started.

• 1:22:26Emma Grede?

  What is it that tells you you're just getting started? When you're so accomplished, what can be left for you to, what's the ambition?

• 1:22:32Speaker 01

  Disrupting industries is fun.

• 1:22:34Emma Grede?

  Things that are fun.

• 1:22:34Speaker 01

  Fixing healthcare is going, could be amazing. And I got a lot of work to do there because we have a path on pharmacy. And I think I have a path on fixing the healthcare side of it too.

• 1:22:44Emma Grede?

  Right. Amen to that. I mean, sign me up.

• 1:22:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, and you connect me with your HR.

• 1:22:50Emma Grede?

  I'll be, I'll be your guinea pig. I mean, I am ready for it. Let's, let's absolutely go.

• 1:22:55Speaker 01

  Eat your own dog food stuff. Yeah, I'll turn you on to all of it.

• 1:22:58Emma Grede?

  Yeah, we need, we really, really need this.

• 1:22:59Speaker 01

  Doing that though, right?

• 1:23:01Emma Grede?

  But that's where your ambition lies in like really changing, disrupting inventories, industries.

• 1:23:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:05Emma Grede?

  But having fun is important to you at this point.

• 1:23:08Speaker 01

  I mean. Yeah, because it's rewarding, you know, I'm competitive in everything, you know, but I stick to things I can be good at.

• 1:23:16Emma Grede?

  Yeah, well, that's that's the pattern in everything that you've done, right? You've found what you've been really good at and you've just gone deeper and deeper into it and had more and more focus. I read last week, or maybe it was the week before, that you'd started a big sports fund now.

• 1:23:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:30Emma Grede?

  What is your plan there?

• 1:23:30Speaker 01

  So Harbinger is with the guy, Rashawn Williams, who's a guest star.

• 1:23:34Emma Grede?

  Amazing, so good.

• 1:23:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, and so he was like, hey, we want to do this fund, would you help? I'm like, sure.

• 1:23:40Emma Grede?

  Sure, that's right up your alley, right? But you sold the maps now.

• 1:23:43Speaker 01

  What's that?

• 1:23:43Emma Grede?

  You sold the maps now.

• 1:23:44Speaker 01

  I still have twenty seven percent, but I don't have controlling interest.

• 1:23:48Emma Grede?

  Oh, is that hard for you, Mark?

• 1:23:50Speaker 01

  Because that's not the way it was supposed to be, but that's a whole nother conversation.

• 1:23:52Emma Grede?

  I mean, we've had this conversation, I was like, did you know?

• 1:23:56Speaker 01

  Especially like, yeah, there was the first Luca game.

• 1:23:58Emma Grede?

  It was the first Luca game. And I was like, I don't know about that. I was giving you shit because I was like, I think this was not good. I think this was not a good move. You're like, what do you know?

• 1:24:07Speaker 01

  And all of L A is just like, thanks, Mark.

• 1:24:09Emma Grede?

  I was like, I'm going to ask the question that everybody wants to know. It's like, did you know and why did you do that?

• 1:24:15Speaker 01

  I didn't know and I didn't, and I was supposed to be in charge of it, but yeah, you know, he gave me a lot of money and changed his mind, so I kept the money.

• 1:24:21Emma Grede?

  What are you going to do? Well, thank you, we're happy to have you. That's all I can say, but go back to the sports fund for me, so it's not too, yeah, it's not too hurtful.

• 1:24:31Speaker 01

  Um, but no, so what we want to do is minority interest in sports franchises are hard to sell sometimes. And so we just want to create a vibrant marketplace with some transparency for anybody in a major sports franchise who maybe their, you know, their families have owned it for thirty years and they own one percent or five percent. So it's more for minority ownerships not to try to do control.

• 1:24:53Emma Grede?

  Interesting. Are you spending a lot of time on that?

• 1:24:56Speaker 01

  No, not a lot, I just.

• 1:24:57Emma Grede?

  It's more fun for you.

• 1:24:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, I just answer questions and connect people, yeah.

• 1:25:01Emma Grede?

  I love that. It's just, I mean, it feels like you're never, you're never going to stop. Do you ever think that there'll be a day when you're like, I'm just going to pack it up and I'm just not working?

• 1:25:10Speaker 01

  It's not work.

• 1:25:12Speaker 01

  It's not work. Will you ever stop thinking about all this stuff? Will you ever stop seeing something and?

• 1:25:17Emma Grede?

  Never, because I really do genuinely love it. And I imagine I'm just going to like keel over one day like mid.

• 1:25:24Speaker 01

  Well, you know, and it's just about allocating your time, right? So um, I don't have to go into an office and spend fourteen hour days worrying about the furniture or whatever, right? It's just like, I do almost everything via email and some Zooms, right? So I'm meeting with pharmacy companies over Zoom and whoever. And I mean, literally, there's not a minute of it that I don't love. Like, it's, it sounds great. It is fun for me to like to learn all this pharmacy shit. And people are like, wait, you're the Shark Tank guy. You're not supposed to know all this. I'm like, it's important. I put in the time and I learned it. And then how do you apply AI to all this and learn all this stuff for our manufacturing? So that we can be the lowest cost provider versus everyone else in the world. Stuff is fun.

• 1:26:08Speaker 01

  You know, once, like you were saying, once you find something that you love to do and it's fun, just keep on doing it or finding new application. So, you know, I don't see a reason to stop any of the stuff that I like to do.

• 1:26:20Emma Grede?

  Why would you? Well, honestly, I am so happy to speak to you because I just think that you are one of the most inspiring, honest people. And I honestly, from the day that I first met you, I was like, this Mark guy is like all that he cracks up to be. You're the, you're the least disappointing person in the world. I say that.

• 1:26:40Speaker 01

  Okay, that's a hell of a scale to be on, but I'll take it.

• 1:26:43Emma Grede?

  Compliment because everybody you ever meet, you know, you build them up in your head and then you're like, that's disappointing.

• 1:26:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, trust me. If you knew everything.

• 1:26:50Emma Grede?

  Well, don't tell me. I've got, I've had enough.

• 1:26:52Speaker 01

  No, but like we all do, right? We all do dumb shit.

• 1:26:55Emma Grede?

  We all do dumb shit. No, but it, you know, it's really interesting, Mark, because I think that success does funny things to people and it's amazing when you can be as open and as giving and still have these like really big aspirations to make things, you know, to have your fun, but to make things better. I think it's really impressive.

• 1:27:14Speaker 01

  Do this and what could be.

• 1:27:16Emma Grede?

  It's the best, it's the best in the world. It's the best ever.

• 1:27:18Speaker 01

  Least disappointing podcast I've ever done.

• 1:27:22Emma Grede?

  I'll take it. I'll definitely take it. I've only got rapid fire for you now. All right. The first thing you do when you wake up and the last thing you do before you go to bed, please?

• 1:27:30Speaker 01

  Take a shit.

• 1:27:34Emma Grede?

  I didn't know we were gonna get that honesty.

• 1:27:38Emma Grede?

  That is so true.

• 1:27:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was gonna give you the normal answer.

• 1:27:43Emma Grede?

  You're the only person who's ever gonna say that. I'm gonna run a compilation of these. And be like, take a shit.

• 1:27:50Speaker 01

  I was like, I can tell her what I normally say, but that would be no fun.

• 1:27:55Emma Grede?

  Manifesting, meditating, love.

• 1:27:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, like check my emails.

• 1:27:59Emma Grede?

  Whatever. No, take a shit. Damn right.

• 1:28:04Emma Grede?

  Literally the best.

• 1:28:05Speaker 01

  You want me to change it?

• 1:28:06Emma Grede?

  I should have asked that question last, because now we can't recover.

• 1:28:13Emma Grede?

  This is what I mean. Like, you're the best. Who would say that? And this is what we need, a president that just like does that.

• 1:28:19Speaker 01

  Mr. President.

• 1:28:20Emma Grede?

  Mr. President. What did you do?

• 1:28:23Speaker 01

  Lactose intolerant, gotta go.

• 1:28:26Emma Grede?

  Amazing. Okay. That is amazing. Um, what are you currently aspiring for in your business life and in your personal life?

• 1:28:35Speaker 01

  Um, personal life, just more time with my kids, you know? Just with them wanting me, instead of me dragging it and professional. Um, just fucking up the healthcare industry and really changing it in this country.

• 1:28:49Emma Grede?

  What's a book that changed your life?

• 1:28:51Speaker 01

  Uh, probably several of the Iron Rand books. Like Fountainhead was big. Um, a couple of her books, yeah.

• 1:29:02Emma Grede?

  No, not any of them.

• 1:29:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, like Howard Rourke was like my role model. He was like a guy in her books that just didn't care what other people thought. Just focused on learning and trying to be the best he could be in his mind. And so that that kind of was model. Like, a lot of people think, well, that's, you know, too laissez faire and too libertarian. But that part didn't matter. It was just like, this is a guy who was just like all about not caring and just going for it.

• 1:29:30Emma Grede?

  Love that. Clearly role model. Um, what is something you valued when you were starting out that you don't anymore?

• 1:29:37Speaker 01

  Probably status, you know? I remember after I sold my first company, going into bars, thinking to myself, I'm richer than you, I'm richer than you, I'm richer than you. You know, just dumb shit that guys do.

• 1:29:49Emma Grede?

  You mean you don't walk into bars thinking that anymore?

• 1:29:52Speaker 01

  I already know.

• 1:29:55Emma Grede?

  All right, something that you value now that you didn't back in the days?

• 1:30:00Speaker 01

  Kindness, empathy, probably the most. Yeah, I wasn't real empathetic at all when I was first getting started. It was just like, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go. If you're in my way, get the fuck out of my way. That was it. And now, you know, then I went literally kicking, but you know, but now it was just like, okay, I'm sorry. Let me see if I can help you. It's, this isn't a fit, that isn't a fit. But, you know, if I can answer any questions or do anything for you, I'm happy to.

• 1:30:32Emma Grede?

  Thank you, Mark. You're the best.

• 1:30:38Emma Grede?

  If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click follow on your favorite listening platform. While you're there, give us a review and a five star rating and share an episode you loved with a friend. We'll be so grateful. Aspire with Emma Grede is presented by Odyssey. I'm your host, Emma Grede. Our executive producers are Corinne, Gillian Fisher, Derek Brown, and me. Our executive producers from Odyssey are Maddie Sprung Kaiser, Leah Reese Dennis, Asha Saluja, and Jenna Weiss-Berman. Justine Dom is our senior producer. Our producer is Kristin Torres. Sound design and engineering by Bill Schultz. Angela Peluso is our booker. Original music by Charles Black. Video production by Evan Cox, Kirk Courtney, Andrew Steele,

• 1:31:20Emma Grede?

  Carlos Delgado, and Arnie Agassi. Social media by Olivia Homan. Special thanks go to Brittany Smith, Sydney Ford, my teams at Jonesworks and WNE, Maura Curran, Josephina Francis, Hillary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson Rose, Tim Meekle, Sean Cherry, and Lauren Viera. If you have questions for me, you can DM me at aspirewithemmagreed. Grede is spelled G-R-E-D-E. That's aspire, A-S-P-I-R-E with Emma Grede. Or you can submit a question to me on my website, emmagreed.me.

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