317: Cheerleader Throws Away Newborn, TikTok Cartel Quadruple Murder & BYU Player SA on Child

This week on Headline Highlights… catch the latest developments on Travis Decker, Emmanuel Haro, Donna Adelson and Tom Phillips. A former BYU baseball player is sentenced to probation in a shocking child sexual assault case. A TikTok influencer, her husband and their two children are discovered murdered in what many describe as a cartel-style execution. At the University of Kentucky, cheerleader Laken Snelling is arrested after police uncover the body of a baby hidden in her closet.🔎Join Our True Crime Club & Get Exclusive Content & Perks 🔎 Join The Club: https://www.patreon.com/annieelise🎧 Need More to Binge? Listen to EXTRA deep dive episodes every week on Apple!https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/serialously-with-annie-elise/id1519456164🚩Announcements🚩Want to Catch Annie LIVE on Tour? 🎤 🎟Grab your tickets now for a city near you: https://annieelise.com/pages/tour🌸MERCH IS OFFICIALLY HERE! 🌸Shop now at https://annieelise.com/collections/shop-allDon't miss out before your faves sell out! 🛒🌷Follow Annie on Socials 📸 🩷Instagram: @ _annieelise, https://www.instagram.com/_annieelise/?hl=en💜TikTok: @_annieelise, https://www.tiktok.com/@_annieelise?lang=en🗞️ Substack: @annieelise, https://substack.com/@annieelise💙Facebook: @10tolife, https://www.facebook.com/10toLIFE⭐️Sponsors ⭐️Beam: Get up to 40% off at http://shopbeam.com/ANNIE and use code ANNIEELISE. Hero Bread: Go to http://www.hero.co and use code AE at check out to receive 10$ on your order. Shop Annie’s Closet & Must-Haves! 👗Poshmark: https://posh.mk/Tdbki6Ae0RbShopMY: https://shopmy.us/annieeliseAmazon: https://www.amazon.com/shop/10tolife?ref_=cm_sw_r_apin_aipsfshop_BKN1ZMCMEZHACVFQ2R75&language=en_USDisclaimer ‣ Some links may be affiliate links, they do not cost you anything, but I make a small percentage from the sale. Thank you so much for watching and supporting me.🎙️ Follow the podcast for FREE on all podcast platforms! Apple:https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/serialously-with-annie-elise/id1519456164Spotify:https://open.spotify.com/show/6HdheEH8WeMTHoe5da34qUAll Other Platforms: https://audioboom.com/channels/5100770-serialously-with-annie-eliseGet Involved or Recommend the Case 💬 About Annie: https://annieelise.com/For Business Inquiries: [email protected] Sources 🔗People.comLaw & CrimeUSA TodayKUTVKSL NewsNews NationLexington Herald LeaderCourt TVEast Idaho News*Sources used to collect this information include various public news sites, interviews, court documents, FB groups dedicated to the case, and various news channel segments. When quoting statements made by others, they are strictly alleged until confirmed otherwise. Please remember my videos are my independent opinion and to always do your own research. ••••••••••••••••••Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this video are personal and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any other agency, organization, employer, or company. Assumptions made in the analysis are not reflective of the position of any entity other than the creator(s). These views are subject to change, revision, and rethinking at any time and are not to be held in perpetuity. We make no representations as to the accuracy, completeness, correctness, suitability, or validity of any information on this video and will not be liable for any errors, omissions, or delays in this information or any losses, injuries, or damages arising from its display or use. All information is provided on an as-is basis. It is the reader’s responsibility to verify their own facts.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  One sweet, melty bite of a Hershey's bar and suddenly I'm right back sitting on the front porch with my grandmother on a slow, summer afternoon. She doesn't say much, just breaks the bar in half and hands me a piece. I open my mouth to say whatever a nine-year-old wants to say, and she replies with a low, "Listen." So, we sat there, listening. That was the first time I learned that quiet can feel full. Hershey's, it's your happy place.

• 0:30Speaker 01

  My brother had his identity stolen. My neighbor did too. Identity theft is the number one crime in America.

• 0:37Speaker 02

  My gosh, my manager.

• 0:39Speaker 01

  My cousin. LifeLock detects, alerts you to, and fixes identity theft, guaranteed or your money back.

• 0:45Speaker 02

  Wow, that's a lot of people. Kinda makes you think.

• 0:48Speaker 01

  Don't wait to become the one identity theft happens to. Get LifeLock. Save up to 30% your first year at lifelock.com/specialoffer. Terms apply.

• 1:02Speaker 03

  At Lowe's, this Veterans Day and every day, military members, veterans, and their spouses get automatic MyLowe's Rewards Silver Status Benefits. Plus, 10% off eligible purchases with no annual limit. It's one way we honor and give back to those who have served and still do. Learn more and verify now at lowe's.com/military. 10% discount can't be combined with another offer. Exclusions, terms, and conditions apply. Loyalty programs subject to terms and conditions. Details at lowe's.com/terms. Subject to change.

• 1:32Annie Elise?

  Hey, true crime besties. Welcome back to an all-new episode of Serial Sleek.

• 1:54Annie Elise?

  Hello, hello, hello, and welcome back to an all-new episode of Serial Sleek with me, your host, Annie Elise, and I've got a special surprise for you.

• 2:06Speaker 00

  Wow, I wasn't expecting that.

• 2:08Annie Elise?

  I know, I wasn't either. We've got a co-host on the mic today. Amy's with us again.

• 2:13Speaker 00

  Shocking.

• 2:15Annie Elise?

  Can you sing, like, that you're happy to be here too? It's coronation day.

• 2:20Speaker 05

  Have anyone suffer through singing on my side? Sorry.

• 2:23Annie Elise?

  Well, whatevs. So Amy's joining me again today for headline highlights and we are fresh off the heels of Crime Con.

• 2:32Annie Elise?

  Why are you looking at me like?

• 2:32Speaker 05

  Just cuz I'm like, you're right. We, it's been two days, but it feels like it was just yesterday.

• 2:38Annie Elise?

  I know. How are you feeling?

• 2:40Speaker 05

  Honestly, it was such a great weekend. I feel like coming off of tour and we've been back to back with things. I was a little bit overwhelmed at the thought of like the weekend and just knowing how many people were gonna be there.

• 2:52Annie Elise?

  Oh, interesting. Okay.

• 2:54Speaker 05

  But I felt like as the weekend went on, it just got better and better. And there were just so many rewarding moments. Like, I don't know, I just kept feeling like moments where I just thought that was, it was just such a great weekend.

• 3:06Annie Elise?

  I know. It was, it was a really great weekend. It's always so nice to like, not only meet so many of you guys in person and like, connect with you and share drinks with you. Cause you know, spoiler alert, I was at the hotel lobby bar.

• 3:18Speaker 05

  Saturday night.

• 3:20Annie Elise?

  But like, meet with you guys and talk with you and then have the privilege of meeting with victims' families and hearing, you know, how appreciative they are of our coverage and then meeting other creators and, you know, people who are in the space that I feel like I only either like Zoom with or, you know, tap in, you know, even for example, like Vinnie from Court TV. I've been on Court TV, I feel like a million times over the last 30 days and like being able to connect in person.

• 3:44Speaker 05

  Bumping into him so many times over the weekend was fun.

• 3:46Annie Elise?

  Yeah, it was a great weekend. So for those who unfortunately did not get the opportunity to join, good news is it's coming back in May and this time in Vegas, which it's at Caesars. And I gotta say, as a Vegas girly, because I grew up in California and like we would do Vegas turnaround trips, Amy knows. Whatever, like a few more weekends than I care to count. And when I heard it was gonna be in Vegas, I was kinda like, ooh, I don't know.

• 4:13Speaker 05

  That was immediately my reaction too. I'm like, no.

• 4:15Annie Elise?

  I'm like, I feel a little old for Vegas, you know, like, can I survive it? It's almost like, what's the show, uh, Mom Talk? Will they survive this? It's like, will Annie and Amy survive this? Uh, but we will most likely be there. Spoiler alert to you, Amy. We most likely will be

• 4:32Speaker 05

  Perfect. All prepared now.

• 4:33Annie Elise?

  Put it, cancel it in your calendar. Okay?

• 4:36Speaker 05

  And then what about your panel? Are you gonna be putting that anywhere for people to watch?

• 4:39Annie Elise?

  I actually need to figure out how to get that. So yeah, Steph Harlow and I did a live podcast episode from Crime Con and where we just talked about a lot of things in the news. And I believe she recorded it. I feel like they recorded it as well. So maybe we can follow up with that.

• 4:53Speaker 05

  It was really good. That'd be awesome if you could post that.

• 4:55Annie Elise?

  Thanks. Yeah, it was nice. Um, so yeah, so Crime Con was really great. And now we are back to reality. And boy, oh, boy, do I have a lot to discuss with you guys today. All my true crime besties out there because we've got case updates and then we've got cases. And when I talk cases, I'm talking like, we've all kind of been talking a little bit, I feel like about Laken Snelling, the cheerleader who gave birth and disposed of her baby. And I actually went last night on Court TV and talked with Vinnie about it as well. But want to talk with you guys about everything that we've learned because there also have now been new allegations surfacing from people who talked with Laken directly after all of this happened. And I

• 5:40Annie Elise?

  actually haven't even filled you in on this. Yeah.

• 5:42Speaker 05

  I was gonna say, I didn't know that.

• 5:43Annie Elise?

  So we ought to talk through all that. There's also a case that's giving like Brock Turner 2.0, which if you know, you know, I know there's a TikTok case that's like all over your radar.

• 5:52Speaker 05

  Super scary.

• 5:53Annie Elise?

  Yeah, that you want to bring up. So first, I want to just go through some of these updates from some cases that we've either covered in the past or that we actually talked about last week on Headline Highlights. But you look like you might sneeze.

• 6:05Speaker 05

  No, I'm just getting settled in because I'm ready for the updates.

• 6:09Annie Elise?

  Okay, I thought, I thought a sneeze was coming. Feel free to sneeze.

• 6:13Speaker 05

  I'll let you know.

• 6:13Annie Elise?

  Okay, okay. So let's start with Travis Decker. We talked about this last week. He's the one where there's been this like three month long manhunt happening for him after he, actually maybe longer than three months, after he killed his daughters. They found bones in one of their searches, but it has come back. They were not human bones. They were animal bones. So wanted to just give that little update here. Now, in Emmanuel Haro news, last we spoke, I talked about how Their new defense attorneys are the same attorneys who represented the Turpin family. And now in the newest update, still not a lot of news, still not really any traction of what happened to Emmanuel and where his remains are, but both Rebecca and Jake have pleaded not guilty.

• 6:56Speaker 05

  We knew that was coming.

• 6:57Annie Elise?

  Shocker. Yeah, exactly. So their next scheduled court appearance is for Wednesday, the 17th. So TBD on that.

• 7:04Speaker 05

  Actually, on that one, though, did you halfway expect one to plead guilty in order for some plea deal?

• 7:10Annie Elise?

  No, I think they would still flip and like they could, because it's almost kind of like a formality. Everybody pretty much always pleads not guilty.

• 7:18Speaker 05

  Right.

• 7:18Annie Elise?

  Yeah. So I wasn't really expecting anything different, especially from like two dirtbag human beings. Uh, speaking of a dirtbag human being, though, let's talk about Donald Adelson. So I talked about this while we were at Crime Con, actually with Brian Enton. After the jury deliberated for about three hours, she was found guilty and her reaction was kind of epic in a way because when they read guilty for the first charge being the most serious one, the murder charge, she was like, is the word right word, aghast?

• 7:48Speaker 05

  I hate that word, but I do believe that's correct.

• 7:51Annie Elise?

  Thank you. Okay. At least it's correct. But she was like, what? No. And like fell into her attorney and I think it was really performative. Like there weren't.

• 8:00Speaker 05

  Oh, absolutely.

• 8:01Annie Elise?

  You saw it?

• 8:02Speaker 05

  Well, yeah, I, and I've heard about it from everybody at Crime Con who couldn't stop talking about it.

• 8:07Annie Elise?

  No, I know. And like she couldn't squeeze a tear out. It was like in disbelief and shock. And it's funny because Brian and I were talking after the News Nation segment and I had said to him, like, you know, she used to dress super glamorous. She was like the matriarch of this, like really great family. And then she dumped herself down for the trial to look like, you know, grandma from next door in like sweats, the little headphones, the gray hair. And so for me, when she reacted to these verdicts, I kind of felt like, I think it was performative, but I also think that there was a little bit of surprise, like

• 8:44Speaker 05

  You do?

• 8:44Annie Elise?

  Yeah, like I think that she truly believed she might get away with this.

• 8:49Speaker 05

  Just because she's used to always getting away with stuff?

• 8:50Annie Elise?

  Kind of, and like

• 8:51Speaker 05

  Like entitled?

• 8:52Annie Elise?

  That she like played the role of like little granny who's innocent in all of this, like that, you know, she didn't know anything that was going on. She didn't have a hand in this. So I think that there was a level of shock, not to the degree of her reaction, but I think she probably expected to get out of this a little bit. But yeah, I do think the reaction was like totally performative, over the top, almost just to kind of like further prove she had nothing to do with this, like whether that's because she's gonna appeal or do whatever, but to be like, you saw how shocked I was.

• 9:20Speaker 05

  Well, that's what I was gonna say. I was gonna say, if you're planning on appealing, which I'm sure most people do, they have to have some sort of a reaction that makes them feel or think they look innocent. So maybe she just went over the top on that.

• 9:33Annie Elise?

  Well, it got so bad that I believe the judge even had to like excuse the jury and say like, collect yourself, Donna, Ms. Adelson, get your shit together. And then brought the jury back in, so.

• 9:44Speaker 05

  What do you think? You think Wendy's next?

• 9:46Annie Elise?

  Fuck yeah. I mean, not to cuss, but frick yeah.

• 9:50Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 9:50Annie Elise?

  And I think, I think maybe-

• 9:52Speaker 05

  She's probably shitting-

• 9:53Annie Elise?

  Oh, she is shitting bricks right now.

• 9:57Speaker 05

  Oh, my gosh.

• 9:57Annie Elise?

  And she had limited immunity because she's testified now in all, what, five of the trials? And she's had limited immunity, but they've been very clear with like what can and can't be used against her in the future. And I think it's only a matter of time before she catches some, you know, some stray charges over there. And I would not be surprised if Donna's husband Harvey also catches some charges, even if it's just conspiracy because he, remember, was with her on the way to the airport, at the airport, on the way to Vietnam, the one-way ticket to a coincidentally, you know, a country that doesn't have extradition. And he sold his super big fancy Lexus to Charlie's ex-girlfriend, who was also involved in this, Wendy's brother,

• 10:40Annie Elise?

  for seventeen hundred dollars, which could be argued, argued as like a payoff for it, you know? So we'll see what goes- Down with that. Uh, now another update, which I'm only gonna go over this very, very briefly. Because we are gonna do a deep dive. A lot of you guys were not only in my DMs after last week's headline highlights being like, we want the deep dive on this case. But when this update came out, I don't think I've ever had anyone send me so many DMs about a case that is not in the United States as I did with this one, um, just recently. So we talked last week, in case you missed it on headline highlights about this father in New Zealand, who there's been, you know, this huge manhunt for

• 11:23Annie Elise?

  years looking for him. He had fled with his children. He was in this like nasty custody dispute, all of these things. They had then started like robbing stores. It was getting very dangerous. And sure enough, that father, who is a fugitive, has now died in a shootout with the police.

• 11:39Speaker 05

  Oh, wow.

• 11:40Annie Elise?

  But luckily, all three kids have been located and they're safe. So let me kind of break down what happened. As I mentioned on last week's episode, they started breaking into like these little convenience stores for money, for food. And I think I had even said to you, Amy, I think I was like, maybe he is running out of resources or whoever. Yeah, we had said like whoever maybe was helping him is turned on him.

• 11:59Speaker 05

  And you're in plain sight, like, how are you not being caught?

• 12:02Annie Elise?

  Yeah. So basically, back on Monday, September 8th, the officers were alerted to a possible break in at this farm goods store around 2:30 a.m. And the acting deputy commissioner had told the reporters that when the officers learned of this break in, there were two people who were riding these four wheeled bikes, which I know we talked last week, I'm all ATV or whatever it was that I was trying to explain. I'm like, anybody with a brain knows what it is. But, um, they were spotted near the scene of the burglary and the officers thought that they could be Tom and one of the children because remember they were seen on CCTV from a prior break in. So I've actually never really heard of this, but it totally makes sense. They set up spikes on a nearby

• 12:43Annie Elise?

  street to like get, give them a flat tire. Well, no, I've heard of spikes, but like, not when you like, think you see, like, I've heard of it when like, it's a high speed chase or it's something like that, but not like, oh, we think maybe they're around. Let's, because what if it's somebody else Over the spikes like that sucks, you know? Are you judging me?

• 13:00Speaker 05

  No, no.

• 13:01Annie Elise?

  Okay, so anyways, this ATV ran over the spikes and the two people stopped. And shortly after that, a huge, you know, storm of gunfire ensued and an officer was struck in the head. Then another officer arrived at the scene and shot at Tom and it was like this full on shootout. And shortly after, Tom was declared as deceased and the child wasn't injured luckily in the shooting and was taken away to safety. And into custody as well as the other two children who, by the way, the other two children were located about a mile and a half away from this. And unharmed, but fully at like this bushy campsite. So they were totally like living off the grid for sure.

• 13:42Annie Elise?

  Now, again, deep dive is going to be coming on this case because I have heard a lot of conflicting information. And I don't know what's true. So let me just throw that out there before you guys all like come for me. Apparently with the custody dispute, there have been certain rumblings out there. That Tom was saving the children from the mother. And that there was some bad stuff going on with her. Again, we know custody disputes get super nasty. Parental alienation, like just from cases that I've covered. It's like a really big thing. So before I like actually.

• 14:22Annie Elise?

  Speak on that in a more, in a meaningful way, like I just want to be clear. That is just speculation out there and rumor. I haven't been able to verify or vet it yet. But that he was trying to like, yeah, act as a hero to his children. It could also be that he's just a dirtbag and was basically, if I can't have them, you can't either. So deep dive is a coming. Now, this next case, this is an update. Now we're going to get into like the meat of this.

• 14:46Speaker 05

  Okay, I don't think I know this one.

• 14:48Annie Elise?

  You're going to be freaking pissed.

• 14:50Speaker 05

  Oh, great.

• 14:51Annie Elise?

  All of you at home.

• 14:52Speaker 05

  That's just what I need.

• 14:52Annie Elise?

  No, I know. Just what you need. Another reason to be enraged.

• 14:58Annie Elise?

  No, you and all of like my true crime besties listening, whether you are on the road. Working out, whatever you're doing, scrubbing the toilets, you're about to. Scrub extra hard. This is going to honestly make you see red. And it gives Brock Turner vibes. I don't know if you're familiar with that name. He's like that like douche canoe, torpy ass face with the like bleach blonde hair from years ago. Yeah, yeah. So I'm not going to say this very lightly. You know, I don't say things lightly. This case out of Utah, it is beyond disturbing and I still cannot believe how it ended. And that is why I am so mad about this. So we're talking about this creep named Camden Doll. He's a college athlete who seemingly had everything going for him.

• 15:42Annie Elise?

  That is until, of course, it all came crashing down. And you already know, I'm obviously fuming over this. So let me just shut up about that and break down what's going on. So Camden was this like rising baseball star. He was from Blackfoot, Idaho, and he played at the College of Southern Idaho. Then he transferred to BYU and he was the starting pitcher for their baseball team. So he was like this full on student athlete, had jersey, people wearing his name. He had stats, like the whole deal. People loved him and people were actually hyping him up as like, he's the player to watch. He's got a whole crazy future ahead of him. However, on February 7th, Camden was arrested in Utah. And wasn't DUI, not that that's light or anything like that. Wasn't shoplifting or a bar fight.

• 16:26Annie Elise?

  The charges were horrific because he was hit with felony lewd conduct with a minor under 16 years old.

• 16:34Speaker 05

  Oh my gosh.

• 16:35Annie Elise?

  Then there was another case with the same charge from juvenile court in Bigam County. So two separate cases, two different counties, two different sets of allegations. So here's where it gets a little complicated, not complicated, but I really want to break out the charges within the two counties because it does get important later on. So in the Fremont County case, Camden was accused of sexually assaulting a girl when she was just 11 years old. And during her impact statement, the now 15 year old girl explained that he would cover her mouth so that the nearby family members would not hear what was happening.

• 17:12Speaker 05

  Oh my gosh.

• 17:13Annie Elise?

  I know. And this apparently happened for years, starting when she was just seven. Seven years old.

• 17:18Speaker 05

  What?

• 17:18Annie Elise?

  Yeah, like a sick freak. So for years, he was doing this and

• 17:24Speaker 05

  Disgusting.

• 17:25Annie Elise?

  I'm uncertain if she's a family member and that's why she was saying he covered her mouth so other families members wouldn't know. There's kind of some mixed reports out there. I've heard but it's a minor, so it's like everything's very protected. But yeah, she said that it stretched back even further, saying it began when she was as young as seven.

• 17:47Speaker 05

  I mean, likely a family or family friend if you have access and you're in the same household at that age with somebody.

• 17:54Annie Elise?

  It's just, yeah, it's like a predator's, you know, best case scenario, which I want all of you guys listening to hear this victim impact statement for a second.

• 18:02Speaker 06

  Your Honor, I want to know that one of the things I've always wanted to do is to confront my views with Candace and tell the truth. Today, I'm able to do that. I'm a survivor of sexual abuse. Candace needs to tell her any ways I don't like before he get from. I want Candace to know I'm not your victim anymore. I'm not for anything. My earliest memory of abuse is seven years old, but I know he was touching me before that. Almost every time I'm together, Candace was touching me on my clothes. Abuse caused damaging memories for me, so the memories are so painful. The games he played where he would pick and choose when I hurt me were awful. Some memories are so damaging because it was me holding him cries of pain. While Candace was being pleasure.

• 18:44Speaker 06

  Or it was me fighting, fighting her, but he'd force it. I was just 11 years old and he covered my mouth. He did not want the family close by and all he was doing. He was in college then. I didn't know what was happening to me, just that it hurt badly. I felt small, dirty and confused because someone I cared about.

• 19:02Annie Elise?

  Now, the stepfather of the victim also gave a statement in the courtroom and this really, as just a parent, absolutely breaks my heart. Because he said, quote, "I cannot even hug my daughter. Touch repulses her. She cringes and pulls away every time I make an attempt to hug her. Please let that sentence marinate with you for a minute." Which that is, so I can't imagine wanting to go hug. Theo or Emmy and then not even like allow me to hug them because like they're so scared of touch. It's so awful. And all during this, Camden just kind of had this like blank stare throughout this hour-long court proceeding. And then finally, when the stepfather was giving

• 19:45Annie Elise?

  that very emotional, very impactful statement, he did shed one single tear, not multiple, one tiny little droplet that he was able to squeeze out. But take a listen.

• 19:57Speaker 07

  I feel like all this is my fault. That I should have protected her from the happening I could. And now I will live with this guilt for the rest of my life.

• 20:09Speaker 07

  From a young age, Camden would always push the boundaries of everything, even physical touch, oftentimes making people feel uncomfortable. There were a few instances that my wife expressed concern in dealing with situations, which I chose to ignore to her full comfort. I'm still trying to understand how old Camden was. My heart was very broken. He is my nephew, who I watched grow up his whole life. We had shared lots of memories together, from being neighbors, to bowling trips, and family dinners. I also coached him and had him in class at school. We all loved him and supported him, although he was actually losing my daughter. He sat in my advisory class.

• 20:54Speaker 07

  Every day through high school, sitting across from me, knowing what he was doing just to her. This is the biggest betrayal to me. When I thought we had a bond that could never be broken, he did these things right in front of me, in front of all of us. Unfortunately, that bond, that trust in my family have been broken by Camden's actually losing my daughter. I love all the people Camden and her and my husband in their heart.

• 21:23Annie Elise?

  So here's the thing, I mean, these weren't rumors. These were real charges that were backed by law enforcement, court documents, testimony, and with all of that strong evidence and, you know, a strong case, it looked like this case was going to go to trial and that there would finally then be some justice with all of this. However, in May, just in 2025, just a few months ago, Camden took a plea deal. And here's where I start to see red, okay? Because this plea deal is absolutely ridiculous. Instead of facing a trial for those original felony sexual assault charges, he pleaded guilty to two counts of felony injury to a child in Fremont County, the other county. So it is still a felony technically, but it is a significantly reduced charge.

• 22:07Annie Elise?

  And in exchange, the prosecutors agreed to completely drop the charges in Bingham County if he pleaded guilty to the two lesser charges in Fremont County. That's why I wanted to like divide them out.

• 22:19Speaker 05

  But it's like, what's, what's the point? And what's the benefit for them? What's coming out of it?

• 22:23Annie Elise?

  So I'll get there. It's, I mean, I know. So with that, even though it's felony charges, it's kind of like, okay, great. Well, even though it sucks and this is not at all justice, what kind of prison time do the prosecutors push for in this kind of plea deal? None.

• 22:39Speaker 05

  What?

• 22:39Annie Elise?

  None. They recommended probation. Probation, as though like you stole a Snickers bar.

• 22:47Speaker 05

  In the court system?

• 22:48Annie Elise?

  It's like, no prison time, no registry. This is a minor. Going back from when she was seven years old, no registry, no prison time. I mean, I don't know what is happening here and how ass backwards this is, but the reasoning from what I've read was all to avoid re-traumatizing the victims and to just wrap up the case faster.

• 23:08Speaker 05

  I can't imagine that was at the request of the family.

• 23:11Annie Elise?

  I don't know. I, look.

• 23:12Speaker 05

  I guess maybe.

• 23:13Annie Elise?

  I mean, I get that the last thing that a survivor needs is to be dragged back in through court, re-traumatized, go through all the, you know, horrific details and have that put on display. I get that. But wiping away the original charges completely in exchange for that? I mean, that's not justice. It kind of feels like damage control or just trying to like make things go away, hush, hush. And it kind of is giving me vibes of Idaho first and foremost, because we know a lot of the family did not agree with the plea deal that was offered to Brian Koberger. And Um, you know, the lack of accountability that was then had also Emmanuel Haro with the first case from 2018 with Jay Caro and the 10 week old, how then he was sentenced to prison time,

• 23:56Annie Elise?

  threw himself at the mercy of the judge. And he's like, oh yeah, sure. 180 days like, and then you serve one day and then it's community service. And it's like, when are these judges first and foremost, going to be held accountable for these decisions?

• 24:07Speaker 05

  To know what, why that happened. And it, I mean, hey, if it was the family that requested that and just wanted it to be done, then of course, respectfully, that's their decision. But I would imagine coming forward and who knows how this all came about, took a lot of bravery and courage. So you'd probably want to press as hard as you can for justice, I would imagine.

• 24:27Annie Elise?

  A hundred percent. And look, I don't know the details if it was the family who wanted this, but after listening to those victim impact statements and considering the prosecution's recommendation, the judge did end up sentencing him to five to 10 years in prison.

• 24:42Speaker 05

  Oh, good.

• 24:43Annie Elise?

  I don't know. No, no, because then he suspended it. And instead, he gave him 180 days in the local jail, eight years of probation, 200 hours of community service, and $2,600 in fines. So, and that's where it gets muddy, right? Because let's just say, and we need to get a lawyer on here, we need to either call Peter or Emily or somebody. But if the family said, we want this to just go away. But the judge was so repulsed by this that he's like, okay, I'm still going to formally sentence him to five to 10 years for his actions, but then we'll suspend it. I could see that. But I also could see them not wanting it to go away. The judge sentencing him to that,

• 25:23Annie Elise?

  like we saw in Jay Caro, like we've seen so many times, and then suspending it and just choosing to do this reduced sentence, which this guy is a clear offender of a minor. Like, you're not even putting him on the registry? And get, fine, give him, you know, six months in jail, which I think is bullshit, anyway. But like, at least put him on the registry, at least like, do something that would potentially protect future victims. It's so disgusting. I mean, how do you go from five to 10 years of prison time?

• 25:54Speaker 05

  Well, how often does that happen? I feel like this is kind of new for me to be like, hearing these cases where there's Like a conviction, a sentence, and then it gets changed.

• 26:03Annie Elise?

  All the time, all the time.

• 26:05Speaker 05

  I know, I know reductions and like time served and there is good behavior and different things come up with hearings, but I didn't realize right out of the gate that they just changed their mind and reduced the sentence.

• 26:14Annie Elise?

  It all comes, it's all comes down to a judge depending on the case and the court and all of that, but like the sentencing piece of it, but like with Brock Turner, I don't even remember. I feel like he just walked, if I remember correctly. Maybe he spent 30 days.

• 26:26Speaker 05

  I don't remember.

• 26:27Annie Elise?

  I don't remember. All I remember is that mugshot and his creepy ass face. Um, and let's talk about BYU for a second, the school, because once this all went down, they just scrubbed him from everything like, but what gave me bad vibes about that. They scrubbed him from the roster, the website, all that, but they gave no statement, took no accountability, no support for the victims, even a statement saying like, we're so sorry, our hearts are with you. Like, you know, we don't stand with this. It was more like, who? We don't know him. We're just getting rid of him. Yeah, my hands are clean. We're going to pretend like we don't even know who this person is. And I don't know, it's just, it's really sad. And his family also hasn't spoken out. They haven't said a word, nothing, no public

• 27:09Annie Elise?

  apology, no statement, just silence. And it's like that, all of that even coupled with the lackluster sentence. It's like, where is the justice?

• 27:20Speaker 05

  So what's he doing now? Just walking around? Cause it's a

• 27:22Annie Elise?

  Well, he was sentenced to six months and then he's going to have probation and then he's not on the registry and can live his life as usual. It'll probably be a Brock Turner situation where it's like, everybody will know his face and his name. Hopefully. I mean, that's why I'm here, guys. That's my goal here. Spread his face far and wide. So everybody knows what a creep this guy is, but um,

• 27:41Speaker 05

  It's like he had it all, everything going for him. Well, I guess if he had started this a long time ago, he really was always on a bad track.

• 27:48Annie Elise?

  Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I get that maybe his family's wanting to just like not speak out because they want to like deal with this internally and privately within their family. But I mean, when the crimes are that serious and when your son was like publicly out there wearing your family name on his jersey, his name and that name on other people in support and like, there's allegations of sexual assault. Against a child, like, people are gonna ask questions and you should probably speak up and like, do the right thing. It's not like you're gonna do any harm now. Sentence is done. Conviction is, everything's done. Like, at least speak out in support of the victims. And again, we don't know if this was a family member or what.

• 28:27Speaker 05

  Well, and maybe that's why everyone's quiet, because if it is a family situation, maybe out of respect for the other family members, that's a sticky situation.

• 28:35Annie Elise?

  I know. So I'm gonna keep, you know, nosing my way into this case.

• 28:39Speaker 05

  I know, you'll keep us updated.

• 28:41Annie Elise?

  I will, I will. I mean, because at the end of the day, here's what we have. We have like this former athlete, multiple abuse allegations, different counties where some were actually dropped, and a plea deal that just pushed everything aside. And, I don't know. And for the girls who finally did speak up about what Camden did to them, what are they supposed to feel in this moment right now? What, how are they supposed to feel justice? What message does it really send to them, right? I mean, or to anybody who's in this position. This is why survivors don't come forward.

• 29:10Speaker 05

  Well, and that's why, before, I was gonna say that earlier, but then I was sensitive to that, thinking if it was a request of the family, then, at the end of the day, I respect that too, but I can't even imagine being a victim.

• 29:22Annie Elise?

  No, what kind of message does this send? Like, oh, a talented college kid gets a pass?

• 29:29Speaker 05

  Gets off again.

• 29:29Annie Elise?

  Yeah, once again. So like, they're not gonna even take me seriously. Why would I even report it? It's awful. So, my hope is that even though he might only be serving six months in the county jail, I hope this follows him forever. And I'm gonna make it my fucking mission to put his face everywhere I possibly can. Because I'm vindictive like that. So, that's what I'm gonna do it. Because, you know, even if the courts fall short, people don't forget, and I don't forget.

• 29:55Speaker 05

  You won't let them.

• 29:56Annie Elise?

  I won't let them.

• 30:03Speaker 00

  One sweet, melty bite of a Hershey's bar, and suddenly, I'm right back sitting on the front porch with my grandmother on a slow, summer afternoon. She doesn't say much, just breaks the bar in half and hands me a piece. I open my mouth to say whatever a nine-year-old wants to say, and she replies with a low, "Shh, listen." So, we sat there, listening. That was the first time I learned that quiet can feel full. Hershey's, it's your happy place.

• 30:39Speaker 05

  Okay, so let's talk about the case that I found about TikTok.

• 30:43Annie Elise?

  Okay, hit me. You know I love a good TikTok.

• 30:45Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 30:46Annie Elise?

  How'd you even find this? You're not on TikTok.

• 30:48Speaker 05

  I know. Well, I'm

• 30:49Annie Elise?

  Well, I guess it didn't happen on TikTok.

• 30:50Speaker 05

  Yeah, I'm still in the news world.

• 30:54Annie Elise?

  I know, but you see it like 20 years after I do, but once it hits Instagram reels.

• 30:58Speaker 05

  Okay, actually, no, I see it in the moment because you usually send me TikToks.

• 31:02Annie Elise?

  You're right, you're right. Okay, sorry, sorry. I hate to interrupt. Continue.

• 31:06Speaker 05

  Do you?

• 31:07Annie Elise?

  I mean, continue.

• 31:08Speaker 05

  Okay, we're gonna talk about Esmeralda Ferrer Garibay.

• 31:11Annie Elise?

  Okay.

• 31:12Speaker 05

  So she was a 32-year-old TikTok influencer known online as Esmeralda FG. And she wasn't an influencer with multi-millions of followers, but she did have a solid following of just over about 46,000. Mainly known for her lifestyle content, she would like post things, her designer bags, luxury outfits, and some family content.

• 31:32Annie Elise?

  Oh, is this a robbery?

• 31:34Speaker 05

  Well, but she also would post those trending lip sync videos, which I've never heard of these. They're to Mexican ballads called narco corridos. I've never heard of them.

• 31:45Annie Elise?

  I've never, I've heard of the lip syncing videos.

• 31:47Speaker 05

  But they romanticize and glorify drug trafficking culture, which sounds

• 31:51Annie Elise?

  What?

• 31:51Speaker 05

  I know, that sounds dangerous already.

• 31:54Annie Elise?

  And people are like lip syncing songs to this?

• 31:57Speaker 05

  Yeah, and she had quite a few of them that went viral. Here's one of them.

• 32:17Speaker 05

  So if you're listening on the podcast and that was difficult to hear, you can always watch on YouTube. They're always posted there, too. But she was living in Guadalajara with her husband Roberto, who was 36, and their two kids, Gail, who was 13, and Regina, who was seven. A young, seemingly happy family. But on August 22nd, that's when their bodies were found, wrapped in plastic and stuffed in a Ford Ranger pickup truck. Yes, and it was abandoned in the usually quiet neighborhood of San Andreas in Guadalajara.

• 32:48Annie Elise?

  The kids as well?

• 32:49Speaker 05

  Four bodies. It was Esmeralda, Roberto, Gail, and Regina.

• 32:55Annie Elise?

  That's insane.

• 32:56Speaker 05

  I know. So the case screams cartel-style execution, plastic wrapped,

• 33:01Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 33:02Speaker 05

  dumped. But forensic used CCTV footage to trace the Ford Ranger back to a mechanic shop nearby, where, get this, they found blood and ballistics evidence. So it looks like they were killed there and then transported in the truck, but not taken far away.

• 33:17Speaker 02

  Investigators had to work backwards, though, starting from the truck she and her family were found in. According to The Latin Times, authorities used CCTV video and data from the Ministry of Security and National Guard. And that's where they traced the truck's path to a mechanic's workshop. When police raided it, they reportedly found bloodstains, spent bullet casings, and other ballistic evidence. With those clues, they believed the family was executed at the workshop and their bodies were transported in the pickup. The prosecutor said in a statement, "While the forensic results are not in yet, ballistic and blood evidence almost certainly confirm that they were murdered at that location."

• 33:51Annie Elise?

  So wait, so she used to post TikToks glamorizing cartel stuff? Or like lip syncing to like these cartel songs? Posting luxury handbags, designer handbags? Then she gets killed in like a cartel-style hit?

• 34:08Speaker 05

  Yeah, but it's not so straightforward.

• 34:10Annie Elise?

  Okay.

• 34:11Speaker 05

  So it looks like they were killed, not taken far away. How could somebody even do that, like, in broad daylight? And no one even knows, it's scary. But people started speculating, was Esmeralda, like you said, involved with the cartels? Was she flaunting something she shouldn't have?

• 34:26Annie Elise?

  Really? And, oh, like, not just

• 34:28Speaker 05

  Maybe.

• 34:28Annie Elise?

  cosplaying with her lip syncing, but like possibly in the cartel?

• 34:30Speaker 05

  Could she be involved because, and who knows if these videos, she somehow has crossed paths with them? Was she flaunting something that she had, which we know she liked to post as luxury goods? And yes, she did post a now-viral video that said, "Advantages of having a narco boyfriend", quote-unquote.

• 34:48Annie Elise?

  Uh-oh.

• 34:49Speaker 05

  Which, okay, maybe that was just like tongue-in-cheek. But in places like Mexico, where cartel violence is not a joke, I feel like that's, you know, like playing with fire.

• 34:59Annie Elise?

  Well, okay, so let me just think, and sorry if I'm jumping ahead, but maybe she wasn't involved directly with them, but maybe her boyfriend or her husband or whatever was.

• 35:07Speaker 05

  I feel like you've been doing this a long time.

• 35:10Annie Elise?

  Am I solving the case?

• 35:11Speaker 05

  You're getting warm.

• 35:12Annie Elise?

  And the cartel's pissed that they're like flaunting it and publicizing his involvement because it's gonna get more heat onto them and they're gonna get caught. So he's like, "Get the hell out of here, why are you talking about this?"

• 35:23Speaker 05

  Well, okay, so... Here's the thing.

• 35:25Annie Elise?

  Did I solve the case?

• 35:26Speaker 05

  Well, not quite, but here's what's so, okay, there's a lot of weird things, so hang back.

• 35:32Annie Elise?

  Okay, okay.

• 35:32Speaker 05

  Let me finish telling you.

• 35:34Annie Elise?

  Okay, I'm gonna drink my water, so I will shut up.

• 35:36Speaker 05

  So the authorities now believe the real target may have been her husband, Roberto. He traded cars and he farmed tomatoes in Machoakon, which is like aka cartel central. He had recently moved the family to Guadalajara, possibly trying to get away from something. And honestly, that may have been one of the biggest red flags in the case so far, even outside of those viral videos. So because you don't just like leave your home, your businesses and establish life for the fun of it, you usually leave to escape something or flee. So after, but here's what's weird, after authorities searched the mechanic shop, the two men who worked there were detained and questioned, but released because of insufficient evidence.

• 36:18Annie Elise?

  Mm-hmm.

• 36:20Speaker 05

  And within hours of being released, they were kidnapped in broad daylight, right outside of the prosecutor's office. Armed men in vans, one of them escaped and the other one gone, along with two of their relatives.

• 36:34Annie Elise?

  Wow.

• 36:35Speaker 05

  I know. So when I was reading that, I'm like, wait a second, so there might be more to the story.

• 36:40Annie Elise?

  Are we sure we want to talk about this case? I'm freaked out.

• 36:43Speaker 05

  Well, that's what I, like, it feels like.

• 36:44Annie Elise?

  I have the chills.

• 36:45Speaker 05

  I know. And I was surprised that you allowed me to talk about this.

• 36:48Annie Elise?

  I didn't know.

• 36:49Speaker 05

  Maybe you didn't know all the details.

• 36:50Annie Elise?

  I didn't know all the details.

• 36:51Speaker 05

  Avoid the C-word, but it seems organized and very suspicious. So as of right now, the case is still open and no official cartel has claimed responsibility, obviously.

• 37:02Annie Elise?

  We don't think you did it.

• 37:03Speaker 05

  Yeah. We don't suspect it at all. And no one's been charged and we're left with this like eerie silence, a whole bunch of questions.

• 37:11Annie Elise?

  So sad.

• 37:12Speaker 05

  So just wondering, like, was it a warning?

• 37:15Annie Elise?

  And what was the cause of death? Execution style?

• 37:18Speaker 05

  Their bodies were just wrapped in plastic.

• 37:21Annie Elise?

  Those poor kids. Not, I mean, poor everyone, but like, oh my God, those poor young kids.

• 37:26Speaker 05

  Well, and that's kind of a little bit, I was thinking, doing those viral videos, and again, I'm not familiar with what those videos were until I read this, but I feel like when you have children, that might be a bit of a scary thing to do unless she had ties or her boyfriend, or there was an award to that story.

• 37:43Annie Elise?

  Glamorous.

• 37:44Speaker 05

  And a way to get viral, and you're in with them, who knows?

• 37:47Annie Elise?

  Oh, man.

• 37:49Speaker 05

  But, so yeah, just trying to figure out, was it a warning from them? Was it some personal vendetta? Was it Esmeralda's public presence and like, all of these luxury goods made her a target? Or were her videos seen as disrespectful by the cartel or by the wrong people and led them to who they were really trying to find, maybe her husband? Um, so yeah, I don't know, but what we do know is if you're in a place where cartels are holding the power, and even the illusion of wealth or any of that makes you a target, like, why are you doing that, number one? And then, you know, that's the tragedy is you have this woman who's trying to live this good life online, you have her husband who's trading cars, and then her poor two children

• 38:31Speaker 05

  who were just innocent bystanders and like, caught in this world that they didn't choose and had no control over. So it's so sad, and hopefully we'll have more details and find out really what the cause of this whole thing was.

• 38:45Annie Elise?

  Yeah. Oh, man. Oh, man. Um, ugh, I feel like I need to like, scrub my brain now after that, but we have another case that I need to talk about.

• 38:55Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 38:55Annie Elise?

  And it's the one that I talked about a little bit at the beginning, and it's Laken Snelling. Now, I know that you have heard a little bit of bits and pieces, I believe.

• 39:04Speaker 05

  Mainly from this weekend. I feel like it was like, the buzz.

• 39:07Annie Elise?

  A lot of people were talking about it, and I, like, on the last day, Vinnie and I were talking about it, yeah. And then, of course, obviously, I went on Court TV last night and talked to them. So let me, let me just kind of give you some backstory for anyone who's listening that hasn't been super caught up in this case. So, Laken Snelling is a 21-year-old senior at the University of Kentucky, and she's a competitive cheerleader, but not like your typical cheerleader. She's on the university's stunt team. And what that means is it's basically cheer, but it's like, more focused on like, the technical components of the sport. Uh, you know, the lifts, the whatever. I don't, I'm not a cheerleader, but you like

• 39:43Speaker 05

  Gymnastics.

• 39:45Annie Elise?

  Yeah. Did you, did you say that weird?

• 39:47Speaker 05

  I don't know. I just, I was starting to say it, but then I thought like that sounded stupid because obviously cheerleading incorporates gymnastics.

• 39:54Annie Elise?

  Clearly I wasn't a cheerleader. Honestly. So anyway, sorry, we're just getting caught up in it. So she had moved to Kentucky from White Pine, Tennessee. And honestly, she was someone who just until a few days ago, looked like she was living this very normal, very typical college life. She was very active on social media, very active on TikTok, had this long blonde hair, was always very well put together, kind of had that, you know, southern look about her where she wore dresses, had her full face of makeup, things like that. But on August 27th, everything changed because police responded to a call at a home in Lexington, Kentucky around 10:30 a.m. and the call was for an unresponsive infant. And inside the home, they found something that not only shocked all the officers, but everyone and everyone in the public and the

• 40:39Annie Elise?

  community is now reeling because in a closet wrapped inside a towel, then stuffed into a black trash bag, was the body of a newborn baby boy. And it gives Alexi, Alexi Traviso vibes all over again. She's the one, I don't know if you're super familiar, she threw away her baby in the hospital trash can. Yeah. So just a baby deliberately hidden inside a closet, just not just unresponsive either, but no longer alive. And as I'm sure you have all gathered, that baby was Laken's. Now, according to reports, Laken had given birth inside her home, this home that was off campus. She was alone. She hadn't told anyone, not her friends, her family, her cheer squad, squad, not even her boyfriend,

• 41:22Annie Elise?

  as far as we all know. Then, once the police discovered this baby in her closet and confronted Laken, she admitted that after giving birth, she cleaned everything up. That's how she described it. She cleaned it all up. All of the evidence of her having a baby was put into a black trash bag. The baby was put into that black trash bag and she threw it away, which It's just gut wrenching when you hear about it, but here's where it starts to get interesting too, and I have more I need to share, but let me just pause really quick. It's unclear who made that 911 call.

• 41:55Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 41:56Annie Elise?

  And I did talk with Vinnie Polatin from Court TV at CrimeCon about this. And it's unconfirmed, but he said he had heard, or they had been told that the reason the 911 call happened is because whoever called was alerted about the baby due to the odor that was coming.

• 42:16Speaker 05

  Oh, my gosh.

• 42:17Annie Elise?

  So it's tough too, because we don't know exactly. Now Laken is obviously like scared.

• 42:23Speaker 05

  Was the baby born alive?

• 42:24Annie Elise?

  I'll get there. So, but we, so we don't know the exact day that she gave birth. We only know the day that the baby was found. So if there was an odor, what was the level of decomp? What, how long has that been like? And let me get into all of that. So basically after finding the baby, it took four days for the authorities to do a thorough investigation of the scene. They conducted interviews and they, you know, looked at all of the evidence and they did determine for certain that this baby was Laken's. Then, once they felt like they had enough evidence, on Sunday, August 31st, Laken was arrested. She's now facing three felony charges, abuse of a corpse, tampering with physical evidence, and concealing the birth of an infant. But here's where it gets complicated.

• 43:08Annie Elise?

  She is not facing any murder charges.

• 43:10Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 43:11Annie Elise?

  I know. And it's because as of right now, there's no official cause of death or manner of death for the baby. They did an autopsy, but it came back as inconclusive. So the investigators still don't know if the baby was born alive, stillborn, or maybe something else happened. And in the coroner's report, the coroner said, quote, "I understand the community's concern and sensitivity surrounding the death of a child. We are conducting a thorough and methodical death investigation so that we can ensure that all facts are carefully considered." But right now, there's just a lot of information that's unknown. And I want you guys to take a quick listen to this doctor and what they had to say on the autopsy results. Dr. Priya Banerjee, tell us a little bit about what you expect the forensic pathology

• 43:56Speaker 06

  To be looking for at autopsy. So these are incredibly complex cases. I've handled quite, not quite a few, but a few in my career. And I'm glad they're limited to that. What's going on is that you have to prove, which is incredibly difficult, whether the baby was born alive or not to then, if it was alive, to then bring murder charges. So that's a big if. It is very difficult just from,

• 44:31Speaker 06

  you know, there can be so many variables as to why even a full born or full term baby can be born,

• 44:41Speaker 06

  is stillborn, and even an autopsy doesn't always find the cause. And so if it's nebulous like that, they may not be able to prove the murder charges. I also don't know the condition of the body of the baby, and plastic is not breathable. And so that can promote decomposition very quickly, sort of, you know, help the tissue disintegrate more, get what's called macerated. And so that can also limit how accurate any autopsy findings are. And I just want to highlight that there have been a lot of,

• 45:19Speaker 06

  you know, convictions overturned or, and sort of

• 45:26Speaker 06

  disparities, if you will, with the float test. There was a test that's shown to be erroneous, where lungs float in water at autopsy. And that's been used to quote unquote, prove homicides in the past. But that can be false positive with decomposition. There's a lot of, it's a test fraught with problems. So that's not thought to be reliable anymore. So you really have a lot of investigation and studies to do to even try to prove whether the baby was born alive.

• 45:56Annie Elise?

  Now, what's especially strange in all of this is that before any of this came to light, Laken had been posting on social media, as I said, posting regular, typical college girl stuff. But also posting things that were about motherhood. She reportedly would write things like, um, you know, goals under photos and memes of images with moms and babies. And in her last TikTok, which was posted back in June on the 25th, she had even included an emoji of a mother holding a baby under her own list of goals. Then she had like other emojis of a wedding ring, a house, cash. She even was sharing posts that people now are interpreting as like maternity style photos, where you can certainly see what looks to be a baby bump in them. There's some photos where her boyfriend's touching her belly as well,

• 46:41Annie Elise?

  but no official pregnancy announcement. So it kind of begs the question, was this something that she wanted? Or was it something that she was hiding? And if she was hiding it, why? And of course, people are going to speculate and everybody right now is digging through her posts, talking about her boyfriend, her cheerleading team status, her family. Some people are saying that the boyfriend was not the father and that he found out that he wasn't the father. And that's why she then wanted to get rid of her baby because she wanted to save the relationship, which again, that's not confirmed, it's just a rumor. But the rumor mill is like running on overtime right now. And a lot of people are also coming through the woodwork, giving information about the case that they say they have firsthand. And I want to get into that because it is unverified.

• 47:26Annie Elise?

  Let me be very clear, it's unverified, but it is very detailed and pretty chilling. So, once more, want to be super clear. This next bit of information has not been confirmed in a police report or in any sort of official statement. It's all alleged, but here we go. So, a person who has not been named, but allegedly works at the hospital where Laken was then treated after the police found her baby in the closet, said that, quote, "The baby was estimated to be a 38-week baby boy." They also said that Laken, quote, "required a blood transfusion and had a second-degree laceration or tear where the delivery had taken place." This person goes on to say that Laken allegedly told hospital workers

• 48:10Annie Elise?

  that the baby was blue after he was delivered, that he didn't cry, but that he did. Quote whimper. So Laken then allegedly wrapped the baby in a towel and delivered the placenta 20 minutes after delivering him. She allegedly also told this worker that she covered the baby's head with a towel, fell asleep for what she described as quote sometime. And then once she woke up, she decided to finish cleaning up the mess and dispose of all the, all of the evidence, which we do know that she did admit to the cleanup and all of that. And going back to the whimper, I want to be, I'm not a nurse, I'm not a doctor. And so I only know what I know firsthand from when I've delivered my kids. A whimper doesn't necessarily mean that a breath was or wasn't taken,

• 48:54Annie Elise?

  but oftentimes, especially if there is stress or trauma during delivery, usually babies will be delivered and start crying, or that's the hope, because you want to make sure their lungs are working and all that. Sometimes if they're not, and if they do, just a whimper like this. You'll see sometimes even movies where the nurses have to like slap the babies and hit them to like get the reaction to like, not like, like, like hit their butt and stuff like that to like get them like, not awake, but you know what I mean, like to stimulate um, a reaction. So some people, after this news has been out there, and again, it's not confirmed. Some people say perhaps Laken thought that the baby was dead

• 49:33Annie Elise?

  and that her son was born, stillborn or wasn't breathing because there was no crying, it was just a whimper. And that that's why she panicked and disposed of him, which arguably, look, I've never, thank God, been in a situation like that. If it were me, and if I heard a whimper, I would call an ambulance and be, and you would do lifesaving measures.

• 49:55Speaker 05

  Where was she when she delivered?

• 49:56Annie Elise?

  In a house, in her house, off campus. And she had been hiding it. She hadn't told her family apparently that she was pregnant. So there's a lot of weird stuff going on here. But the hospital worker also adds that Laken was accompanied by police the entire time that she was at the hospital. And again, that she allegedly knew that she was pregnant, but that she didn't want her parents to know. So because of that, she was going to plan on going to the university's student health center to get prenatal care. But it's unclear if she actually ever did go, if that was just a lie. And she was trying to say that because the police were there. I don't really know. Meanwhile, another person who has also come forward, who is allegedly a family member of either Laken's father or of her boyfriend, a little unclear.

• 50:39Annie Elise?

  But they said that the baby was full term, that he weighed under six pounds, had a head full of black hair and also had, quote, "baby sideburns." Allegedly, there was a funeral service that was held and Laken did attend, but the baby, his physical body, was not buried because, and I don't even know if he was actually at the funeral either, or if it was more like just a service, but because there's additional testing that the state has to do and it hasn't been completed yet, they can't, of course, bury him.

• 51:10Speaker 05

  Well, so my question is, if she concealed this pregnancy, delivered in secret, no one was around, where are all these details coming from?

• 51:20Annie Elise?

  So these are details from her going to the hospital after the fact because, and I'll get to that, that she was worried about getting sepsis. And then the police were there after they discovered the baby and she's talking to hospital workers. So now that information is coming out.

• 51:34Speaker 05

  But about the baby having black hair and being of term and all of those things, number one, I mean, that has to be a confidential.

• 51:41Annie Elise?

  I would imagine it's what Laken told them because this person allegedly is a family member of either Laken's father or her boyfriend. So somebody close.

• 51:49Speaker 05

  Violating her privacy and disclosing.

• 51:51Annie Elise?

  Maybe because they don't agree with how she handled it. I don't know. This person also said that Laken's father is devastated, but her mother is being very cold about it and that her mom would not call the baby anything but it when talking about what happened, which like, hello, you're a grown adult. Like, I don't care what the situation is. That's disgusting. They also, as I had just mentioned, said Laken allegedly went to the hospital to make sure that she had delivered all of the afterbirth and wouldn't get sepsis. Further, this person is saying that people are harassing the baby's father's family, which we'll talk about in a second, but we also don't officially know who the father is. So again, I don't know what's going on with that funeral service, what it was truly like.

• 52:34Annie Elise?

  We do know that the autopsy was inconclusive. More testing is happening. So I would imagine that the baby boy is in the custody of the state right now, but I'm not sure. So Laken's boyfriend Connor, he's deleted all of his social media accounts.

• 52:49Annie Elise?

  But it still hasn't been confirmed that he was in fact the father of this baby. In fact, reports are now coming out that the ex-boyfriend of Laken's has submitted a DNA sample to determine if he is the father's baby rather than Connor, apparently. And it really isn't clear how long she's been with Connor or when she and this ex broke up. But it does seem like things could have, you know, been going on or brewing around the time she got pregnant. Yeah. And that also goes back to the conversation, or I should say the theory out there of like, did Connor find out he wasn't the father because she admitted it? Not through DNA testing, but maybe she admitted it, or he just like realized, or like maybe this ex came forward. So that's why she wanted to get rid of her baby to be like, I don't even want it. It's not ours.

• 53:32Speaker 05

  And that's why I'm thinking the blanket over the head, thinking that it was a whimper and that there was something wrong with the baby doesn't sound right. Cause if you were trying to have a healthy pregnancy and wanted a healthy baby, you would go to the hospital when you're about to deliver versus trying to conceal it by yourself. If, even if you were stuck at home, for whatever reason, you'd call somebody over. So she was trying to keep it a secret. That's I think no question. And so whatever caused her to do whatever she did after that, whether that was a postpartum situation or because somebody, she wasn't sure who the father was, or the boyfriend said, I'm not going to be a part of this. She didn't know how to tell her family. Like, who knows?

• 54:10Annie Elise?

  Yeah. It's all still breaking now. So we definitely are going to be learning more details. There may even be more details the time this recording comes out. So I don't know, TBD. But Laken has withdrawn from the University of Kentucky and she has pleaded not guilty to all charges. Now, something that I talked about with Brian Enton on News Nation a few days back is that a lot of people are having issue with how she showed up in court because she showed up in full makeup, wearing a red dress, which some people said, she's southern, that's how they dress. They're always well put together. Um, but other people are like, why are you, are you trying to like,

• 54:47Speaker 05

  Read the room.

• 54:48Annie Elise?

  Yeah, exactly. She also posted a hundred thousand dollar bond and was released, but has since been placed on house arrest and is ordered to stay at her parents' home in Jefferson City, Tennessee. So there's another preliminary hearing that is scheduled for September 26th. And during this time, while we wait, the state is just waiting for more forensic results, specifically microscopic testing from the coroner's office to, you know, hopefully find out what truly happened to this baby. But yeah, she's getting obviously a lot of blowback for not only the situation, but her court appearance, things like that, because people are just kind of like, what are your priorities? Like you said, read the room. And I think in cases like this, we know she pleaded not guilty and we still don't know the situation and what truly happened.

• 55:31Annie Elise?

  We can, I'm sure all agree though, it was mishandled regardless what took place during the delivery. The aftermath was mishandled, but you're now facing charges. Maybe not murder charges, or maybe that will come. Wouldn't you want to be in like the good graces of the public? And we were talking in the top of this episode about Donald, Donna Adelson, for example. She wanted to get the public on her side. She dressed like the little old granny, all this Jodi Arias with the glasses, people playing up the roles, Anna Delvey.

• 56:03Speaker 05

  I was just gonna say.

• 56:04Annie Elise?

  Yeah. And but, so people are like, read the room, like, what are you doing? I don't know. I think it's also easy to kind of become the most hated person in the world when something like this happens, no matter how you dress, what you wear, what you do. So.

• 56:17Speaker 05

  Well, and like a bigger conversation, which maybe you have more information on this is now as people are coming forward, outside of the speculation of go doing a deep dive on her social media and seeing these maternity like photos or the hand on the stomach or these little Easter eggs, if you will, that people are seeing, like, did anyone on the cheer team, any teachers, anyone on campus, any family member suspect? And I understand that's a very sensitive subject. And as women, we know, you don't ever question somebody unless you're very sure. But also, a young girl is in this extremely.

• 56:53Speaker 05

  Emotional situation and you know, obviously carrying a child is stressful and at that age, you have a lot of emotions running through, you know, so I just feel like opening that door of communication so that people can talk to you or that you can confide in somebody.

• 57:08Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 57:08Speaker 05

  Maybe people, you know, should have spoken out if they saw something.

• 57:12Annie Elise?

  I do think that we'll get a lot of information from the boyfriend because think about it too.

• 57:17Speaker 05

  I mean, yeah, how would you not know?

• 57:19Annie Elise?

  He would, I'm sure he'd have to know if they're like having sex and like, and if he had posted photos with her with like hand on the stomach. So like, what did she tell him? What was the sort of like, I'm sure, I think we're going to be like hit over the head with a lot of information in the next coming weeks. So for those of you listening, if you want the deep dive, you know what I say?

• 57:38Speaker 05

  It's coming.

• 57:38Annie Elise?

  Podcast or other people, let me know. I got you covered. I will do the deep dive. So you don't have to. So that's what we've got for headline highlights today, guys. If you are in the Texas area, we are going back out on the road next week. We Houston is sold out, but we do have a couple of tickets left for Austin and for Dallas and a couple of meet and greets left. Phoenix is also sold out, but I guess you could check and see if anything comes up. But if you're in the Houston area, just drive to Dallas or Austin. I think it's far, but do it. Um, so yeah, we're going on the road next week. You can get all of the tour tickets at Annie Elise dot com. And then after Texas, we are going to Tacoma.

• 58:22Speaker 05

  No, we're going to Orlando and Tampa.

• 58:25Annie Elise?

  Orlando and Tampa Disney World. Um, so grab your tickets at Annie Elise dot com before they are gone. Anything else?

• 58:36Speaker 05

  No.

• 58:36Annie Elise?

  Any final thoughts?

• 58:38Speaker 05

  You're welcome. I feel like it's been a crazy week, but a good one.

• 58:41Annie Elise?

  It has been.

• 58:42Speaker 05

  Hopefully nothing crazy happens over the weekend.

• 58:44Annie Elise?

  I know. I hope not. And spoiler alert, I have some really exciting news coming up. We're not going to tell them right now.

• 58:51Speaker 05

  Do I know it?

• 58:51Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 58:52Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah, super exciting.

• 58:54Annie Elise?

  We're not gonna announce it for a couple of weeks, but make sure you're subscribed to the podcast.

• 58:59Speaker 05

  Unless you catch Annie randomly on tour where she tends to word vomit and disclose all kinds of announcements she's not supposed to.

• 59:06Annie Elise?

  I know. I have a really big problem doing that. When I, when it's like, like the time for me to just talk on tour, I, yeah, I word vomit and I say all the things that I'm not supposed to say because I feel safe.

• 59:18Speaker 05

  Exactly.

• 59:18Annie Elise?

  I feel like I'm in the circle of trust.

• 59:19Speaker 05

  Until I get in front of her.

• 59:21Annie Elise?

  I know. And then Amy, I could just see her like shooting daggers at me through her eyes being like, what are you doing? What are you doing? So if you're on, if you go to one of the shows, you'll probably find out. But, um, and I'm sure now we'll get a question on tour, like, what's the big secret? But otherwise, the announcement will be coming in the next couple of weeks. So make sure you're following the podcast if you're not already. Subscribe on YouTube if you are not already so that you don't miss it. All right, guys, until the next one, be nice, don't kill people, just get a divorce and be a good human. All right. Bye.

• 59:54Speaker 05

  Bye.

• 1:00:06Speaker 01

  Time for a quick break to talk about McDonald's. It's the tangiest time of the year. For a limited time, head to McDonald's and get a McRib sandwich. Make it a meal by adding a medium fries and a soft drink like an ice cold Diet Dr. Pepper. So grab a McRib sandwich and embrace the tang. Save time by ordering ahead on the app. Participate at McDonald's for a limited time. Dr. Pepper is a registered trademark of Dr. Pepper, 7-Up, Inc.

• 1:00:31Speaker 03

  Real talent is defined by what people can do, not where they learn to do it. So by stopping at the education section of a resume, you might throw away the perfect hire. Skills First Hiring helps you see talent others miss, like more than 70 million stars skilled through alternative routes. Let their story unfold and gain a competitive advantage because hiring managers who start with skills are 60% more likely to find a successful hire. Hire skills first. Learn why at tearthepaperciling.org. Brought to you by Opportunity at Work and the Ad Council.