487 Success Without Seeing: How Erik Weihenmayer Climbed Everest & Kayaked the Grand Canyon Blind

"There is a way forwards, even if it's backwards." - Erik Weihenmayer If you enjoyed this episode, check out show notes, video, and more at http://lewishowes.com/487 Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 487 with Eric Weinmeier.

• 0:07Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:33Lewis Howes?

  Welcome everyone to today's show. We've got Eric Weinmeier in the house, who is the only blind person to reach the summit of Mount Everest. And in 2008, he completed the seven summits to the highest point of every continent. Eric's triumphs over some of the world's most incredible mountains were fueled from a growing aspiration to take the lessons he learned in the mountains to help others shatter barriers in their lives. And Eric co-founded a movement called No Barriers. And the mission is to help people with challenges to turn into the storm of life, face barriers head-on, and embrace pioneering and innovative spirit, and team up with great people to live

• 1:18Lewis Howes?

  rich in meaning and purpose. And he also took on another crazy challenge in September 2014, when he kayaked the entire 277 miles of the Colorado River through the Grand Canyon. And in this interview, we talk about how Eric sees with his brain, even though he is completely blind, what happens when you turn into the storm of life, teaching your mind how to suffer and why this is so important, what's on the other side of our biggest barriers, and how to navigate the pivotal moments of our lives. Such a powerful experience connecting with Eric, and I hope you guys enjoy this one as much as I enjoyed hearing his story.

• 2:03Lewis Howes?

  So without further ado, let me introduce to you the one, the only Eric Weinmeier.

• 2:11Lewis Howes?

  Welcome guys back to the School of Greatness Podcast. We have an incredible human being on the show in the Temple of Greatness today. His name is Eric Weinmeier and I'm super grateful that he is here. So, thank you so much Eric for being here.

• 2:26Speaker 01

  Thanks for having me in.

• 2:27Lewis Howes?

  I'm very excited about this. You are 100% blind. Is that right?

• 2:32Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:32Lewis Howes?

  Does that mean, what does that mean? You can and cannot see?

• 2:35Speaker 01

  It means I can't see anything and I'm not legally blind. I'm actually totally blind.

• 2:41Lewis Howes?

  What's the difference?

• 2:42Speaker 01

  My friends say I'm blind as a bat. I know that's not very politically correct, but well, you know, I can't see light or dark or anything. In fact, I lost both my eyes to glaucoma several years ago. And, but, but the interesting thing is that you actually don't see with your eyes. You see with your brain. So even though I can't see with my eyes anymore, my brain really is listening and touching, I'm touching things, I'm experiencing thing and my brain is still processing vision.

• 3:13Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 3:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:14Lewis Howes?

  Wow. So, do you see images in your mind?

• 3:17Speaker 01

  I see it in my mind. Yeah. Like I'm listening to you and your voice right now and I'm imagining you and your face and your hair.

• 3:23Lewis Howes?

  Good looking.

• 3:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. I know you're tall. So, yeah, yeah.

• 3:28Lewis Howes?

  Amazing. So, you're kind of like imagining an image in your mind essentially?

• 3:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, because the visual cortex of the brain doesn't go dormant. You know, it's, it has to continue to do something. So, so it begins to process other senses that are coming into the brain.

• 3:43Lewis Howes?

  So, you almost have an advantage of that. You can create any image you want. You're not limited to actually what people see. You can create any vision for yourself.

• 3:52Speaker 01

  Yeah. And also, you know, I, I probably notice different things. When I'm talking to somebody, I'm noticing things because it's not so, I'm not distracted by, by the visual piece of what they look like or, or, you know, I was a teacher for six years and I used to love certain kids. I loved all the kids, but I would talk to a kid and he would... You know, he'd be so pleasant, such a great kid. And then another teacher would say, well, you know, he's like chubby and he picks his nose. And I'm like, ah, why'd you tell me that?

• 4:23Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 4:23Speaker 01

  I don't want to know that.

• 4:25Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 4:25Speaker 01

  You know, I like my image.

• 4:27Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. What's the, what are the things you notice the most when you either meet someone or you're having a conversation? What are, what are your senses telling you? Or what are you looking for through your senses?

• 4:38Speaker 01

  Well, I just try to be observant because as a blind person, when you lose your eyes, which are such a powerful sense, you get so much information through your eyes. Now you're trying to get beauty and information through your other senses. So like when I'm up in the mountains on a big ice face, I'm taking my glove off. I'm feeling the beautiful ice sweeping down through my hand, feeling it just drop away into space. I'm listening to sound vibrations. You know, spanning out through the, through the valley, over the valley, bouncing off of things. I was up on a mountain one time, way up high. And I was listening to the valley and this huge lightning storm had hit. And every time the lightning cracked, I could hear this really crisp

• 5:23Speaker 01

  sense of the way the mountains looked all around me. And it was, it's just staggers you with beauty.

• 5:29Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. Wow. What an advantage.

• 5:33Speaker 01

  It's what I have. So you find beauty and you, and you, and you find joy with what you have. And you take, I think, whatever you have. And you kind of make it into an advantage, you know, you make that, that thing you have, that storm that you collect that energy and you use it to make your life great. Yeah.

• 5:51Lewis Howes?

  What, um, so you had your sight when you were younger, correct?

• 5:55Speaker 01

  I did. I could see till I was 14.

• 5:57Lewis Howes?

  14. Wow. Do you remember certain things that you used to be able to see?

• 6:02Speaker 01

  I remember a lot of things. I remember riding through the forest with my bike and, you know, trying to mistreese. I remember, I couldn't see very well. I remember jumping, uh, uh, off of boulders with my friends into big piles of leaves. And I remember, uh, the way the, the, the leaves turned golden in the fall. And I have a lot of beautiful memories in my mind. Uh, when I, when I finally went blind, um, I'm sort of a pragmatist though. And I, and even though I knew I was going to miss those things, those visual things. What I thought I would, what I was really much more scared about was being shoved to the sidelines. You know, like not being in the thick of things.

• 6:45Speaker 01

  I remember sitting in the cafeteria, uh, at school like a week after I went blind and I was sitting at a table by myself and listening to the food fights. All these kids were in this massive food fight. And I didn't, you know, mind so much that I couldn't see it, but what I was really mad and upset about was that I wanted to be in the middle of that food fight.

• 7:04Lewis Howes?

  Wow. So when you, when you lost it, what was it like for you? When, you know, those first few days, was it, you know, heartbreaking or was it just kind of like something you accepted right away? Or how did you deal with that transition? Cause that's a huge

• 7:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:17Lewis Howes?

  Loss for people, I would think.

• 7:19Speaker 01

  So I was diagnosed with this rare disease and they said, there's no cure. I went to a round of doctors and as a small kid, I knew I was going to go totally blind.

• 7:27Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 7:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:28Lewis Howes?

  Oh, so they told you this is gonna happen?

• 7:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, but it's like somebody saying you're gonna die in, you know, eight years. Like you don't, you don't, like you try to block that out. The brain is incredibly powerful. So as I was losing my sight, I would just deny it. The brain's amazing. It can deny anything. It doesn't matter what the reality is. So my brain just completely, you know, I would be like, oh, I didn't eat enough breakfast or, you know, I, I didn't eat my banana this morning or, um, like the light must be weird today or whatever. Your brain just can make up anything. So I just completely was in a hundred percent denial until, uh, that moment when I woke up and, um, I, I could, I could, I couldn't see to take a step. And then I went, oh, okay. This is real.

• 8:15Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 8:16Speaker 01

  And I didn't really accept blindness either. Um, at, there was a little portion of time when I could see like double, like your brain just plays all these tricks trying to hang on to the little bit of vision that you have and it, and it started enabling me to see double. Like I couldn't quite see where things were. They'd pop up in different spots and I was walking down a dock and I could see two docks in front of me. I was trying to rush out there to swim with my friends. And I went, okay, it must be the dock on the left. I'm just going for it. And I took a step into space and I did a flip in there and I landed on my back on the deck of a boat.

• 8:51Lewis Howes?

  Oh, man.

• 8:51Speaker 01

  And I went, oh. That was the wrong doc.

• 8:54Lewis Howes?

  Oh my goodness.

• 8:54Speaker 01

  Yeah. And so some of these things, when you go blind, you know, or something bad happens to you. Of course, it's this balancing act of what you can influence and what you can affect, but also what are the things you kind of have to let go of? And you have to accept and blindness was like that for me because once I accepted it, uh, my life got a lot better and then I could push the parameters of, of what I could do.

• 9:17Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. Crazy, man. This is amazing. What? Who was the most influential person in your life growing up then?

• 9:26Speaker 01

  Well, obviously my parents, I was really lucky to have great parents. In fact, as I was going blind, my dad, I, he, he knew I loved to do things like I'd jump my bike over this ramp at the bottom of my driveway. It was these wooden planks that I had set up and I'd fly through the air. It's kind of like in the eighties when Evel Knievel was still big and uh, my, my dad saw that I couldn't see the ramp anymore. It blended into the pavement. So instead of saying, you can't do that, which is the natural inclination of a parent, he painted it orange, like this really bright orange. So it contrasted the pavement and I could jump my bike over this ramp for probably another six months before I went blind. So

• 10:10Speaker 01

  my, my parents really instilled this idea of, of what I call no barriers now, but it's back then it didn't really have a name and the other person who really influenced me was this guy that I never met. Uh, who I think about almost every day and his name is Terry Fox. Uh, when I was going blind and I could still see just a little bit out of my right eye, I, I would press my face up against the screen. I could watch TV. I literally had static electricity at the end of my nose. That's how close I had to get. And, uh, this guy was Canadian and, uh, he lost a leg to cancer. So they cut off his,

• 10:50Speaker 01

  his leg because it was cancerous and, uh, and then he made a decision to run across Canada. And like, you know, this is thousands of miles. It's a marathon a day. And I thought, hold on a second. That is not the decision somebody in his situation is supposed to make. Like you're, you know, what you're supposed to do is like curl up in a ball and protect the little bit you have left. And this guy said, no way. Like I don't, that's not. What I learned and I he, you know, he kind of understood that between the things that happened to you and the ways that you're supposed to react, there's this space that you can operate in and he, he chose to run and uh, he, he ran most across Canada and

• 11:35Speaker 01

  inspired a nation. I think, I think I read that in the book, uh, that, uh, he, he raised a dollar per Canadian, uh, like a dollar for every Canadian, uh, for cancer research.

• 11:46Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 11:47Speaker 01

  So he never.

• 11:48Lewis Howes?

  He was like the original Lance Armstrong.

• 11:49Speaker 01

  He's the original stud. He's the original grandfather of, of disabled sports or however you want to look at it because, uh, and so he never finished his run. Uh, cancer came back, got into his lymph nodes.

• 12:04Lewis Howes?

  Oh, man.

• 12:04Speaker 01

  Uh, and then, uh, but, but he'll.

• 12:06Lewis Howes?

  So he ran with, without losing the leg first.

• 12:09Speaker 01

  No, he ran after he lost his leg.

• 12:11Lewis Howes?

  Lost the leg.

• 12:11Speaker 01

  So he had this clunky, clunky old prosthetic leg, not these fancy flex feet, you know, or anything like today. It was this clunky, herky jerky motion. The look on his face was one of the last images I remember, just full of exhaustion and exaltation and it's all mixed together and he's just running and it was like, it, it inspired everyone and, and as including me because I didn't even know at 13 years old what to call it, but like, I was like, there's something inside that guy. And like, I wonder if I have that in me. Like I would, I would, I would love to think that that exists in me and I hope it does. And, uh, and so you kind of hope that when you turn into the storm of life, there's

• 12:54Speaker 01

  something that you can build and grow inside you and use that to, I don't know, not, not just survive because nobody wants to just survive, but really get stronger and better.

• 13:05Lewis Howes?

  Wow. Yes. And the, the concept you're talking about is called No Barriers and you've got this book out called No Barriers, which I'm showing to the camera right now. Make sure you guys pick this up. It's a blind man's journey to kayak the Grand Canyon, but you've done so much more than kayak the Grand Canyon. You've been on the top of every major peak in the world. Is that correct or?

• 13:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's a lot of mountains out there, but I climb what's called the Seven Summits.

• 13:30Lewis Howes?

  Seven Summits.

• 13:30Speaker 01

  The tallest peak in every continent. So from Mount Everest to Karstens Pyramid, which is the tallest peak in New Guinea, to Denali, which is the tallest peak in North America, to Aconcagua. So it's been this great adventure to go around the world and climb mountains. And including tons of rock and ice faces that no one's ever even heard of.

• 13:53Lewis Howes?

  And there's a lot of great photos of you climbing these mountains and ice cliffs and, you know, kayaking through the Grand Canyon. And there's a couple of images of Kyle Maynard, who's been on the show. He is born without arms and legs, and there's some great photos of him climbing the mountain. And he started climbing because of you. He came and started training with you, is that correct?

• 14:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, I have this, I think it's an organization, but it's really, I think of it more of as a movement of No Barriers. And so we held this big event called Our Summit. And he came to one of our summits, and it's really a celebration of how people with challenges break through barriers. And he wanted to know how to climb. And we're like, you know, we had this great clinic where we were taking all these different people climbing, blind people using trekking poles and bear bells. And we had paraplegics that were cranking their way up the mountain with their, with their arms on these special devices and amputees that were using special crutches and really cool devices and innovations. And then Kyle

• 14:56Speaker 01

  showed up. And I'm like, ah, I mean, we're No Barriers. I don't know how we're gonna get a guy without arms, his arms into the elbows and legs into the knees. I don't know how we're gonna do this. And so we kind of got together a group of wannabe engineers, some of Kyle's friends, some of our team.

• 15:12Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 15:13Speaker 01

  And we went to his hotel room and we got bath towels and packing tape and... Uh, some foam at the front desk and

• 15:22Lewis Howes?

  The images look very funny. They look like big clubs of like foam or something on his arms for the first images, right?

• 15:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, he could, but he could bop you in the face with one of those.

• 15:31Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 15:31Speaker 01

  And we wrapped him around his stumps and he, uh, he, for the next like eight hours, he crabbed his way to the top of this mountain. Stood at the top of this 12,000 foot peak in Colorado. I was right next to him. I was behind him as he crabbed his way through mud and snow and through boulder fields and, and I just, and believe it or not, that was the day. You know, cause you're always in these processes, like you have these great dreams and honestly, a lot of them sort of die in the recesses of the mind. And that day, uh, I got to the top with Kyle and I thought, okay, I've been talking about this idea to kayak the Grand Canyon.

• 16:11Speaker 01

  Like this, I gotta do this. This is not one of those ideas. I want to like die a slow death in the, in the, in the periphery of my brain. So I, yeah, I saw that and I thought, I'm doing this. It was cause of Kyle.

• 16:24Lewis Howes?

  Wow. Yeah. And when did you do the, how long did it take to do the Grand, the Grand Canyon?

• 16:30Speaker 01

  Well, the whole process was six years.

• 16:32Lewis Howes?

  Six years?

• 16:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:33Lewis Howes?

  To kayak it or?

• 16:34Speaker 01

  Six years of training.

• 16:35Lewis Howes?

  Training.

• 16:36Speaker 01

  And eight years really before, you know, of that moment when I spoke it out loud to the time that I did it. And, you know, I, so I'd been climbing mountains. It sounds really crazy, but mountains were my comfort zone. I'd been climbing since I was 16 and at 40 years old, I found myself on this river. And I'm learning how to kayak and I'm starting over and I'm like, you know, mountains are supposed to prepare you for, for your life, you know, you know, like climbing Everest. It was supposed to make me ready for this great adventure. And I'm listening to the roar of the rapids below me and I'm thinking, I'm not ready.

• 17:13Lewis Howes?

  That's intimidating.

• 17:14Speaker 01

  Yeah. Uh, and, and so it was six years and there were tons of things to figure out along the way, uh, how to navigate, you know, for first of all, and, and how I would assemble my team around me. First of all, I just want to make sure people know that like I don't see myself as a crazy blind guy just taking massive amounts of risk. I really am very methodical about this process that I'm always trying to implement, trying to build this amazing team of people around me. Of course, there is, in any endeavor, there's a lot of flailing and bleeding, but also trying to systematize things as best as I could, trying to kind of look, be like

• 17:59Speaker 01

  a scientist, you know, trying to pioneer these ideas forward. And so, developing how the person would be behind me, and how they would guide me, what they would be yelling at me. Hard left, small right, charge into the rapids. And then, the radio systems that we would use, because you're separated by 20 foot, 30 foot waves, and you can't hear. And so, I got this earpiece, and we finally found this tiny little company out of the UK, like a mom and pop communication system, that communicated through Bluetooth technology and in relative real time.

• 18:36Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 18:36Speaker 01

  And waterproof. That was amazingly hard to find. And finally, we found that, and that was like, kind of a game changer, because then I could hear, I had this voice in my ear as I was charging through this absolute chaos.

• 18:49Lewis Howes?

  Wow. Crazy, man. So how long was the actual time in the boat, or the journey when you, you know, got in the, in the Grand Canyon?

• 18:58Speaker 01

  It was 277 miles from, you know, all the way through the Grand Canyon.

• 19:05Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 19:06Speaker 01

  Grand Wash Bluffs is when you end this great canyon. And it took 20 days.

• 19:10Lewis Howes?

  20 days?

• 19:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:12Lewis Howes?

  How long would you go on for each day?

• 19:14Speaker 01

  You kayak about eight hours.

• 19:15Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 19:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, kind of 6 to 10 hours a day. And at first, kayaking was so mentally tiring for me. Of course, you're physically tired, but for me, there's always this training in the brain, because you're exhausted. You know, I'm listening to this advice, or not advice, I shouldn't, I shouldn't say advice.

• 19:36Lewis Howes?

  Directions.

• 19:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's not, like, it's not a choice whether you listen or not, you know, it's a, it's a command, and you gotta do it fast. And so... And if you're like a moment too late, you just get hammered. You know, you blast into a rock, you go into a hole. If your boat is faced 10 degrees angled too far to the right, you're going into this area of the river that you don't want to be in. So.

• 19:58Lewis Howes?

  Talk about having trust.

• 20:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a lot riding on me and my guide to make the commands. So my brain would get just exhausted because I would be listening so hard and so much pressure to like not make a mistake, which wound up being one of the hardest things about kayaking for me. Because I had come from this environment of climbing where you could move slowly and, and sort of very methodically bring uncontrollable things, situations into control. But it's, as I said, it's slow and methodical and you can stop and regroup. In kayaking, there was no regrouping.

• 20:41Lewis Howes?

  How did you prepare mentally for this? How did you train yourself to say, listen, I've, you know, for this or for any mountain, you know, whether it be a mountain or the Grand Canyon or whatever it may be, how do you prepare yourself mentally for any major obstacle you're about to take on?

• 20:57Speaker 01

  As, as you know, I mean, I think it's really cool. Actually, it's a great question because it's like, well, yeah, there's the physical training and you know, like when I'm training for a mountain,

• 21:07Speaker 01

  I'm running up stairs, you know, like I'd run up the tallest building in Denver with a big pack on, just trying to make myself throw up, you know, just as hard as I possibly could. Until you're just dizzy and, and so obviously there's, you know, getting in that mental or that physical state of, you know, being able to increase your VO2 max. Cause at high altitude especially, there's not really enough oxygen to survive. They call it the death zone. So you're trying to, you're trying to stay just below that anaerobic threshold. And, and then there's the mental state, you know, there's a mental training, which is.

• 21:49Speaker 01

  Trying to take, as I said, these really uncontrollable situations and bring them under control, like coming down from a peak called Amada Blom, which was a year before Everest. We were in this massive storm. We were stuck at 20,000 feet for eight days. And then my team leader tried to get up and push up higher and we couldn't. It was just like the wind was knocking us over and we're like, we gotta call this. Like, we gotta go down. Why, we still can't. So we packed up and we came down. This wind is picking you up and slamming you back against the rock. The whole mountain has changed now. It's like glazed up with ice and snow. It's really cold. Your fingers are going numb.

• 22:32Speaker 01

  Your toes are going numb. You're like, this is the time to panic. But there's no reason to panic because it doesn't help you. So you have to sort of do this mind thing where you're like, you teach your mind how to suffer and you keep it at the surface. You're like, this is hopefully temporary. I gotta stay disciplined in my brain. And that was a huge adventure getting down that mountain. It actually turned out, my friend Eric Alexander fell and landed on this little ledge. And so he came back. We got him back up and got him on oxygen, got him down, had to get a helicopter at base camp. He was really banged

• 23:14Speaker 01

  up and there was a little break in the storm and the helicopter swooped in. We had to put him in a Gamo bag, which is a hyperbaric chamber that brings you down to a lower altitude. So we pumped air into the bag for like 48 hours to keep the air, the oxygen in there so he could, you know, he could stay healthy. And anyway, we got him down and then, of course, people are like, well, you guys had this massive disaster on Amada Blom. What makes you think you can climb Everest? And no, we were, I didn't see it that way. You know, we had had this, we had had many things go wrong on that experience, but all the mental training, all the team training, you know, it was like, it's sort of, we had to

• 23:55Speaker 01

  go through that gauntlet as a team to be ready for Everest. It was the greatest experience we could have had.

• 24:05Lewis Howes?

  You know, in some ways, when I'm running or doing a hard workout, or you know, heck, I can barely climb Runyon Canyon, which is not that high. Uh, when I'm doing these small little, you know, workouts, and when I see the top, and I'm constantly looking at how far away I am, it's actually mentally, it creates more challenge for me, more discomfort. Do you feel like sometimes you have an advantage when you don't have to like, see how far you have to get to get to the top of certain elements in your life? That you can just be in the present moment, one step at a time? Or do you feel like it's a disadvantage?

• 24:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, um, I think there are pluses and minuses there. Um, I remember Kyle saying that very same thing when he was climbing Kilimanjaro. He's like, I have this tendency of looking up and going, I got so far to go.

• 24:54Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 24:55Speaker 01

  And, uh, and yeah, I can't do that. Um, the Sherpas on Everest, they have a great quote. It's part of their sort of Buddhist philosophy. And I've tried to adhere to it as much as I can. And they say that the nature of mind is like water. If you do not disturb it, it will become clear. And so when, the way I think about climbing, or even kayaking, or a lot of parts of my life, I try to understand that if you're, you're doing the things that you know why you're doing it. Like you're there, you've made that decision. You've gone through the process of, of, of second guessing yourself and all that kind of stuff. You're past that.

• 25:39Speaker 01

  Now, how do you let go of all that fear and distraction that, and chaos that really just weight, it just weighs you down? And it, and it sabotages you. And your brain sabotages you and it calls you away from this thing. And just because your brain wants to keep you safe. And, and it, and it's sort of like these monsters that are like, sort of pulling you away from everything you really want to do. And it's just to keep your, you safe. And it's like a, it's a genetic, uh, you know, dysfunction of the brain. And, uh, and so if you can keep your mind clear, like still water, you know, and not allow it to get so muddy. And so that's the way I, that's the way I look at a lot of things. That really that discipline of the mind that it's so hard to maintain.

• 26:23Lewis Howes?

  How do you keep your mind clear?

• 26:26Speaker 01

  Well, it really is like a muscle that you're training. And so I try to prepare as much as humanly possible. So like, for instance, the reason it took me six years to train for the Grand Canyon, or half my life to train for Everest, was because I didn't want to go on the fast track. You know, I don't think you learn much from, you know, squeaking by, by the skin of your teeth. Like, you're not learning in the survival, by survival. You want to flourish in these environments. So six years, I was trying to train my brain to embrace this chaos, this crazy storm of energy that you're riding. You're trying to control some of it, but some of it you can't control.

• 27:10Speaker 01

  And trying to, trying to kind of go through that mind process. And then, and it takes a while to be able to do that. But essentially, with all that preparation, your fear and all that distraction can kind of get replaced, or get pushed to the periphery, and replaced by awareness, and replaced by focus. And, you know, it doesn't happen too often. But for instance, I was in the Grand Canyon. It was like day 16. And some rapids had gone well, some hadn't gone so well. But I went into this one rapid called Upset.

• 27:55Speaker 01

  And Harland, my guide, he just said like, "Look, you gotta get your mind in this frame, in this right frame of mind, because you're still doing this thing where your brain is separate from the river. And you gotta make them the same thing. You gotta make your mind and the river one. You have to be experiencing this thing and not have this barrier of the brain. And because you're defeating the purpose of why you're here. All that fear is just killing you. And I rode that rapid. I remember there was a massive wave just crashing against the walls to my left. To my right, I could hear this huge hole, just like guttural sound of this hole churning water down into the depths of the river. And I was squeaking this line right between.

• 28:38Speaker 01

  And I got through that, and I just remember feeling so weightless. And so you're training for six years to get a minute and a half of that.

• 28:50Lewis Howes?

  It's like an Olympian, you know, it's like an Olympian that trains for six to eight, 10 years to have 10 seconds.

• 28:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:57Lewis Howes?

  Or one minute, you know, a gymnast, one minute routine or 10 seconds and the one minute dash or something like that. You know, it's like your whole life essentially is training for a moment.

• 29:07Speaker 01

  But you're lucky, you're fortunate to feel that, to get to experience that and be to, to, to, to know that the brain in certain situations is like the impediment and you know, to get past that and just be connecting. It's really hard to do, and I think you have to keep working at it time and time again, but once you feel it, it's really, it's powerful.

• 29:28Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. What do you feel about, um, potential? What's your thoughts on potential? And do you feel like most people uh, never even get close to what they're capable of doing? And if so, why?

• 29:43Speaker 01

  I do think people sometimes

• 29:47Speaker 01

  give up too soon. Because they're committed to a process, but then, you know, as they keep climbing, things keep getting harder. And then they, and all those barriers start turning into brick walls. And they get shoved to the sidelines and, and now they're, they're camping out, they're, they're starting to maybe be stagnant. Uh, you know, they, there's, they're stuck and they don't know how to, they don't know how to get back. And so I think it's really the barriers that people confront that shove them to that sidelines and, and kill their potential. And eventually that safe spot becomes habit and now you're stuck and you, you don't know how to get out.

• 30:31Speaker 01

  Uh, but I don't want to be like an elitist or a snob. I mean, it's not about climbing ever a sur kayak in the Grand Canyon, but it is about something. It is about, you know, living in the current, which is where the excitement and fulfillment of life is and not being stuck in the eddy. And so I do think, yeah, I do think people

• 30:51Speaker 01

  give up too soon, but it's not because they're quitters. It's because they just don't know how to, to break through that eddy fence into the current.

• 31:00Lewis Howes?

  And how do we break through? How would you teach someone?

• 31:04Speaker 01

  Well, what I learned through exploring the people that I did in the book, because the book was one, I mean, a narrative, an adventure, which was fun to write, but it was also about looking at people. Like, see, I hadn't, I'd seen so many people, including family members, just stuck in that dark place. And, and I, and I felt like, you know, has anyone like illuminated the path that people take? And not like in movies and fictional books, like not like in the movies where it's a nice crescendo. It's a nice arc upward and then, you know, and then there's a violin music at the top. And then, you know, you tie the bow and then everyone goes home. Like, who, what's that map look like?

• 31:47Speaker 01

  And so, look, there, there's thousands of elements to that process. But for my map, I try to look at even fundamental things that are, that seem almost incredibly obvious, but are really hard to do. Like, we have a lot of folks, like injured vets, who come into our programs and they've gone off on this journey and they've gotten broken. And, and like, what's something fundamental that they lack? They're sitting in their basement, they're just, they've served, they've led, they don't know how to get back into the thick of things. And we say, like hair, we'll build, help you build a rope team. In the mountains, you actually are tied to the people around you.

• 32:30Speaker 01

  So it's really cool because, you know, if you fall, everyone's got to stop you or everyone dies. It's a great concept. And, and so how do you, how do people build their rope team? So we'll help build the rope team. We'll bring together all these soldiers and we'll say, this is your rope team. Okay, you, maybe you weren't lucky to have a great family when you were growing up, but this is your rope team and this is the group that will elevate you through your life. And teams just don't happen, you know, they're carefully, methodically built. And we're going to facilitate that. And, and then you got to use that team. So I think building that team around you is essential. A central part of that map.

• 33:12Speaker 01

  I also think, I mean, there's several others, but I really think that another one that I've found is so important, it's bled into every part of my life is this idea, I call it alchemy. And it's this thing that when you, these pivotal moments, when these barriers pop up and they, and you're stuck, how do you, do you allow that, that barrier to become the thing that stops you, or do you kind of gather up the energy that is created through that adversity and, and, and, and collect that and harness it and, and, and ride that energy forward? You know, maybe not to the place that you would have gone to, but maybe someplace brand

• 33:55Speaker 01

  new, maybe someplace you would have never gone in any other way. And so I think that alchemy process is something I try to teach people who go through our programs.

• 34:07Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 34:09Speaker 01

  And, and there's many more pieces, I think of that map that are so counterintuitive. You know, they're not like the things that are logical, they're like Terry Fox doing the complete opposite of what he was supposed to do.

• 34:21Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah, wow. What would you say is the biggest lesson you've learned about yourself since going blind?

• 34:31Speaker 01

  Well, when I was learning to kayak, I was doing really well. I was like learning my combat roles, like working through all these barriers. And then I went to this river called the Usum Asenta. It was this giant river in Mexico and it was great training, but there was a flood. And, you know, instead of being 40,000 cubic feet per second, it was 120,000 cubic feet per second. To give you perspective, that's like 10 times bigger than the Grand Canyon.

• 35:02Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 35:03Speaker 01

  And these whirlpools, there's just like a torrent of water. And I was still kind of a novice and one of the things that happened when that much water is flowing down a canyon is that these crazy things begin to happen. You don't even get why at first, like these things called vortexes, they're whirlpools, they swirl across the river and they move in these chaotic, unexpected ways. And they're, they can be nine feet deep. They grab the bow of your boat, they suck you down and they rip you out of your kayak, they pull the, your shoes off from your feet, they're so strong and they hold you down for more than a minute under the water.

• 35:39Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 35:40Speaker 01

  And then they just disappear. And, and then another one pops up and I get in so over my head. Uh, I couldn't get back into my kayak. I mean, you know, I know like motivation is great, but I, it didn't matter how many motivational programs I listened to, I could not get back.

• 35:57Lewis Howes?

  It's terrifying.

• 35:58Speaker 01

  Kayak.

• 35:58Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 35:59Speaker 01

  It was like, you know, you know, so our program, we work with all these folks with PTSD. And after that, I got this weird taste of PTSD. Like, I'm not saying I had it, but I definitely felt like I had trauma. I started having this dream. Um, where I was blind in my dreams. I'm, usually I can see in my dreams, but in this dream I was blind and I was getting sucked down the river and I had no guide. And I was, I was convinced that the river was gonna like swallow me into nothingness.

• 36:28Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 36:29Speaker 01

  And I could, I just couldn't get back in my kayak. My friend, thank God, that rope team, my, one of my guides said, hey, like, let's start over. And so it was, that was the greatest lesson that I've learned is that I couldn't go up. So, but I did have control. I could move backwards. So I decided, okay, I gotta reprogram my brain. So I went back to the Whitewater Center, these man-made rivers that the, we're so lucky to have in, you know, in 2017, like actually man-made rivers where you can go train. And I got on these baby rapids, these little rapids and, and had to relearn the whole process again. I'd lost my role.

• 37:09Speaker 01

  I'd lost my confidence. Um, and so it took me about a year to

• 37:15Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 37:15Speaker 01

  rebuild.

• 37:16Lewis Howes?

  That's a lot to wanna, you know, go back and start basically brand new on something that you put a lot of energy into and you kind of lost confidence and you know, a lot of fear in, in this experience. And then to recommit to a vision and say, I'm gonna start from the bottom essentially and start one step at a time again. That's a hard thing to commit to.

• 37:38Speaker 01

  It was hard and maybe people don't have time for that in their modern world lives.

• 37:42Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 37:42Speaker 01

  But. It it for me was a great lesson because it was like, look, it's possible. Like you could say like, look, I don't have time or I'm on the fast track and or I'm just, it's not worth it to me. But you can't say it's not possible because there is a way forward, even if it's backwards. Right. Wow. That's powerful. And you have a family, correct? I do. I have a wife and I have two great kids. And what is that experience like?

• 38:10Speaker 01

  Cause none of them were blind, correct? No, my son uh is 14 and we were lucky to bring him home from Nepal. So it was great to climb a bunch of mountains and bring home a son. That's not a bad bargain. Um Nepal was in the midst of a civil civil war. Uh so we were going to these embassy appointments, trying to like go through this crazy, insane rigmarole of all the blue, all the red tape that we had to go through and all the appointments and all the like letters that you have to get and all the just hundreds and hundreds of things that you have to do. And trying to get to our appointments in the civil war, kind of low grade civil war, people protesting on the streets,

• 38:54Speaker 01

  flaming bricks flying over your head, tires burning in the street and you're like, excuse me, mind if I get, if I step around this and I gotta get to this appointment, this is really important, if you don't mind. Sure. And uh two years uh we brought him home, but I remember in that process thinking, God, I wish, I wish the process was as easy as climbing Everest. Uh it was harder for sure. And uh there was a long delay where um the Maoists took over Nepal and we thought we'd never bring him home. Uh and uh but but we just kept sort of driving forward in every way possible. We've we've we got to Nepal, we got positioned, like ready for action once it happened and.

• 39:40Speaker 01

  And the process took almost two years, but we got this guy home and he's a, he, he plays soccer and he, he plays basketball and he rolled, he could roll his kayak at nine years old. And he can ski way better than I can, which he likes to brag about.

• 39:58Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I used to love bragging about being better than my dad and everything. Once I got to a certain age and I could get bigger than him. What's the thing you're most proud of? Of all you've done, you've accomplished and overcome and broken barriers on so many things. What's the thing you're most proud of?

• 40:17Speaker 01

  Well, I think the Sherpas on Everest, they have this cool thing that they say, and they say that that when you reach the summit of Everest, only halfway summit, like not the real summit, and they mean you gotta get down. And I've interpreted that though, beyond that, and I think it's like, yeah, you, you know, you're not climbing these things or kayaking rivers as escapism, but hopefully ideally you're taking these gifts down from the mountain that you've earned through struggle, through that flailing, through that bleeding, through that sense of self-discovery, that path that we're all on. And we use it in some ways. And so for me, coming home

• 41:02Speaker 01

  from those mountains and starting No Barriers, and it was just started at first with a bunch of dirtbags like myself, climbing dirtbags. One of them is a friend of mine named Mark Wellman, who's a paraplegic. He can't, he, he has no movement from the waist down. He climbed El Capitan, that 3,000 foot

• 41:22Speaker 01

  granite face. He, he, he did it by doing 7,000 pull-ups in eight days.

• 41:28Lewis Howes?

  Oh my gosh.

• 41:29Speaker 01

  The third

• 41:30Lewis Howes?

  Crazy.

• 41:31Speaker 01

  Yeah. And the third guy is this guy Hugh Herr, who's a double leg amputee. And he was another dirtbag, but he was, he had an engineering mind and he He said he looked down at where his legs were supposed to be because he had lost his legs in a climbing accident and for a long time had loss. And he looked down where those legs were supposed to be and he said he saw a blank canvas. And so he, he went back to his garage. He started building legs. With these, their tiny little legs with like feet, imagine they're tiny. They look like a doorstop. And they can, he can wedge them into seams. No human foot could even stand up. He became a way better climber. Then when he had legs, he's actually now the head of biomechatronic laboratory at MIT.

• 42:16Speaker 01

  He builds like 62 million dollar prosthetic legs.

• 42:19Lewis Howes?

  That's pretty cool.

• 42:21Speaker 01

  But back then he was just a PhD student and um it was, so the three of us climbed this tower in Moab. I carried Mark down the trail. Hugh led. We got to the top of this tower. And uh, I think that was the beginning of no barriers for me. I thought like, what is it inside those guys? Like, can you, is there something you can take out of them? And export it into others so that we're like, maybe there's a way to better equip all ourselves for that. Journey that we're on so that we emerge on the other side, not broken, but change or grow, grow, growing or even transformed, although that's. That's a big word.

• 42:58Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 42:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:59Lewis Howes?

  What's, what do you say is the big barrier for you next uh? Overcome or breakthrough? You've, you know. Had overcome so many things. What's the next thing?

• 43:11Speaker 01

  For me, it's committing to change. Like, and, and sort of uh. I have a really fulfilling life. I have a busy life, but like, I'm sort of like in the same boat as everyone where there's. Dozens of things I would like to do, like I would be, like to be a better technologist. There's a lot of amazing technologies out there. That I would like to spend more time experimenting with. And uh, for instance, there's a really cool uh. Uh, new device called Ira that is a, works on Google Glass technology. And uh, I can call up an agent. He or she is around the world and they can see through the camera.

• 43:46Lewis Howes?

  No way.

• 43:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, and they can talk you through.

• 43:49Lewis Howes?

  Going on.

• 43:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, like so the other day.

• 43:51Lewis Howes?

  That's cool.

• 43:52Speaker 01

  I used it when I was on the Stairmaster in the gym and it broke down. It could, and I can't see the screen. And I, and I, and I called up this agent. I said, help me start this machine again.

• 44:02Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 44:02Speaker 01

  She's like, yeah, move your but, finger to the right and push that. There you go. The start button. And here's the, you know, the resistance. So yeah, just having more time for these important things. And we get so distracted and we, we take, you know, it's so easy to take the path of least resistance. And like what I learned from a lot of the characters, a lot of the people I studied in the book was that the path of most resistance. And this isn't like a motivational statement or anything. It's just like, it's a reality that the path of most resistance is sometimes the, the, not the direction you want to go. But it's, it's the thing that where you grow and learn the most. It's this crazy dichotomy.

• 44:46Speaker 01

  That like you, you know, like when you're kayaking, you don't want to be off the line. You don't want to be in the chaos. But that's where you learn the most. So it's a balancing act. And that's the biggest barrier for me, just trying to figure out how to have, to change my own habits so that I spend more time on the important things that I want to devote my life to and not just reacting and responding, which is what we probably do. I don't know, 80, 90% of our lives.

• 45:13Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure. Powerful. A few questions left for you, Eric, and I'm really grateful you came on.

• 45:22Lewis Howes?

  What is a, a non-negotiable for you every single day that you must do, either a routine or a habit or something that you, you need to do every day to prepare yourself?

• 45:36Speaker 01

  I, one of the things I do, and I've heard a lot of your guests say this, so it's kind of a universal thing, I think, for all of us, is to wake up sort of with gratitude. Like, you know, blind guys don't climb mountains alone. Blind guys don't kayak the Grand Canyon alone. I've ridden on the shoulders of amazing people. People have devoted their lives to me. They could be doing a lot of things. My friend, Rob Raker, for instance, in the middle of our kayaking six-year process, he gets diagnosed with stage four prostate cancer. This means your time on earth is concrete. Like, it's not 40 years. It may be a lot less.

• 46:20Speaker 01

  And he continued to guide me down the mountain despite the fact, or down the river despite the fact that he was on ADT, androgen deprivation therapy, stripped away all his testosterone. He was sick. He was in diapers, having it, you know, in his kayak because he had no bowel control, but he was guiding me down the river.

• 46:38Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 46:40Speaker 01

  So, I wake up with gratitude every day for that amazing people in my life.

• 46:45Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, it's powerful.

• 46:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:49Lewis Howes?

  If you had one minute of perfect eyesight, and you could be anywhere in the world, or see, be in front of anyone, or experience anything, and you had a minute or a few moments, let's say.

• 47:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:08Lewis Howes?

  What would you choose to see with your eyes?

• 47:12Speaker 01

  So, I don't miss seeing mountains or rivers. I've experienced those things. I've saw, I've seen them in my own way, and that's great. So, I don't have any regrets there. I will say, though, that faces. I remember when I could see just a little bit, like, looking down through the window with some binoculars and seeing people's faces, like, walking down the streets and going, "Whoa, that is crazy to look in people's faces and look into their eyes." And so I would love to see my kids. But I will say this, because that probably won't happen for me, and that's I'm okay with that. I can live with that. I won't see their faces, but there's another amazing device that I've worked with, that I write about in the book.

• 47:55Speaker 01

  That's based on neuroplasticity, and that's the brain port. It's a camera that takes a picture of an image. And then that gets sent through a microprocessor that then sends electrical stimulation to my tongue.

• 48:09Lewis Howes?

  No way.

• 48:10Speaker 01

  So essentially, my tongue is the images that the camera is seeing, the light and dark images, the contrast. It's being projected onto my tongue in this electrical stimulation. And so I've used the device to just stare into my kids' faces.

• 48:27Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 48:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, and it's crazy because you're you're looking at their you're feeling their face like, you know, their cheeks like. I remember my kid telling me jokes and he's telling me these great jokes and his and his cheeks lift up and his smile just consumes his face and. His eyes, I mean, like some of it's in your mind, but I could have sworn I felt his eyes twinkling.

• 48:49Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 48:49Speaker 01

  It was good. It was good stuff.

• 48:51Lewis Howes?

  That's cool.

• 48:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:52Lewis Howes?

  That's very cool. This is a question that I ask at the end. It's called the three truths.

• 48:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:57Lewis Howes?

  So if this was the last day for you many years from now, and you've achieved everything you wanted to, you've written all the books, you've said all the things you want to say. But you only get to share three lessons left to the world. For whatever reason, this is all that people would see of your work left are these three truths you write down in the paper. What would you say are your three truths?

• 49:20Speaker 01

  Well, first, I mean, we spent some time today talking about this map that we're all building. It's all our maps are slightly different, but there's also some universals to that map that we're building. But I think fundamentally, maybe it comes down, the truth is that it comes down to a choice that we make. You know, are we okay sitting in that semi self-induced prison? We put ourselves in that prison. Are we okay with it? Most of us aren't. So it, it, there is a fundamental sense of courage just to say, I'm not okay with that and I'm gonna find a way to break through and I'm gonna be in the current. And that's where the excitement, that's where the joy, that's where the fulfillment,

• 50:04Speaker 01

  that's where the discovery is, but it's scary as hell.

• 50:06Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 50:07Speaker 01

  Uh, so it's one a choice.

• 50:09Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 50:10Speaker 01

  And I think the second truth is this idea of courage and one of our soldiers in one of my no barriers programs told me this, I'm blatantly stealing it because I love it so much. He said that courage is not a state of being, it's a, it's a choice. You know, it's, it's a, it's a choice that we're making constantly. And so he said, what he tries to practice every day is this insignificant acts of courage. You know, like maybe it's, um, maybe it's, it's wearing that shirt that you, you know, everyone makes fun of, but you love it.

• 50:52Speaker 01

  Um, that tank top, you know, that's gone out of style. Or maybe it's a, uh, having a beer instead of a Coke, a Coke instead of a beer. Or maybe for me, when I was hard, couldn't get back in my kayak, it was just, um, sitting in my kayak, it was in my garage and I would just sit in my kayak.

• 51:12Speaker 01

  So, you know, those insignificant acts of courage lead you to those moments when great courage is required and then you're ready. So it's like a brain, it's like a muscle in your brain that you're training. And I think that's a truth for me. I think about that all the time.

• 51:25Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 51:26Speaker 01

  And maybe the last one is, um, have fun, you know?

• 51:31Speaker 01

  I call it suffer well, because in any great endeavor, there's suffering. So my friend, Chris Morris, he's this great adventurer, but he's hilarious. He's from Alaska and you'll be sitting in this terrible storm, hammering wind in your face, you're miserable, your hands are cold, you're eating like gross food with rocks in it, you know? And he'll say, uh, sure is cold out here, but at least it's windy.

• 51:57Speaker 01

  Or we've been climbing a long way, but at least we're lost.

• 51:59Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 52:00Speaker 01

  And I love that. It's like, yeah, life is suffering, but you gotta like, you gotta ride that suffering and, and, and know that it's for a good purpose. And, um, so it's, and also it's a way to say like, hey, uh, we own it. It's a hard road. But I always own that road.

• 52:18Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 52:18Speaker 01

  No matter what. And so Chris has helped me understand that through those, uh, that his philosophy. He calls them positive pessimisms.

• 52:25Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm. Yeah. I like that.

• 52:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:28Lewis Howes?

  Thank you for sharing those.

• 52:29Speaker 01

  Yeah. So throw, throw some positive pessimism out.

• 52:32Lewis Howes?

  Perfect. Um, the book is No Barriers, A Blind Man's Journey to Kayak the Grand Canyon. A lot of great meat storytelling content in here. I think you guys will love this one. Make sure to pick it up. Eric, before I ask the final question, I want to acknowledge you, my friend, for, for showing up the way you do. Because not many people who have eyesight are willing to put themselves and break through the barriers that they have. And you're willing to do so much more than most people with no sight, because you have incredible vision, my friend. So I acknowledge you for all that you do to show up passionately, with love, joy, playful, curious, and willing to commit six, eight, 10 years to make something come true.

• 53:16Lewis Howes?

  Not trying to take the fast track, uh, but really making sure you're prepared for something great. So I acknowledge you for that.

• 53:24Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 53:24Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. And the final question is, what is your definition of greatness?

• 53:29Speaker 01

  Well, I think, one, as I've said before, it's not about climbing Everest. It, it's not about, um, you know, blind people or people missing legs or whatever, like doing big things. You know, that's, you know, that, that can actually become sort of shallow. I, I just think it's greatness is people living, you know, fully living, fully experiencing that sort of storm that we're all riding and, and committing to it. Like you just mentioned, committing to that, to that life and, and, and not allowing themselves. You look, look, I don't care if people climb mountains or climb scary rock faces.

• 54:14Speaker 01

  But like I, I met somebody the other day who said, yeah, like I tried whitewater rafting and my boat flipped. And ever since then, I could never get back into the river again. And that was a physical thing. I mean, that was a concrete thing. But I thought, what a shame to be driven by your fears. And so I'd say, you know, not being. Driven or demotivated or even influenced by our fears. It's not like we're reactionary. We're trying to like just confront our fears and do things just because we're scared. Then I think that's just as shallow.

• 54:52Speaker 01

  But, but at the same time, not being controlled by those fears and, and all those crazy little things that our brain do to us.

• 55:03Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 55:04Speaker 01

  For, for me, that's, that's what greatness is. And if, and if you're truly committed and engaged in life, uh, to, to whatever your vision is, then I'd say that's great, you know? It's, it's, it's impossible to define it in terms of a something.

• 55:20Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. I love it. Well, Eric, you're a great man. Thank you so much for being on here. The book is No Barriers. If you guys go to touchthetop.com/greatness, you can get some more information about the book and some more goodies at your site, which is touchthetop.com/greatness for more about this stuff here. Eric, thank you again for coming on. I appreciate it.

• 55:40Speaker 01

  Thank you, Lewis.

• 55:43Lewis Howes?

  And there you have it. I hope you enjoyed this one and make sure to share this with your friends. LewisHowes.com/487. If you felt moved or inspired in any way, then share it out on Twitter, Facebook, or tag me as always on Instagram @lewishowes when and where you're listening to these episodes. We've got some big interviews coming up, so make sure to subscribe to the podcast if this is your first time here and stay tuned for what's to come. It's gonna be a great week on the School of Greatness Podcast and you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.