Pod Insights Aspire with Emma Grede Aspire with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: The Power of Knowing Your "Why" About this episode Emma sits down for an intimate, inspiring conversation with former First Lady Michelle Obama and her big brother, Craig Robinson. In this special episode, Michelle and Craig open up about family, leadership, and the values that shaped them, from their early years sharing on Chicago’s South Side to the White House. Michelle reflects candidly on balancing motherhood, public life, and personal ambition, while Craig shares heartfelt stories that highlight the emotional intelligence and unwavering support they learned from their parents. Together, they discuss how everyone can create meaningful change—starting exactly where they are.
Transcript 16,936 words · 8 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:09 Emma Grede? On today's very special episode of the Aspire Podcast, straight from Washington DC, we're getting ready to learn some life lessons from two of the best. Former First Lady Michelle Obama and her big brother Craig Robinson have inspired millions. And now they're sitting down with me to open up about the biggest takeaways they've learned along the way. If you're thinking about how to give your life more meaning or what really matters, this is the episode for you.
0:47 Emma Grede? Craig, Mrs. Obama.
0:48 Speaker 01 I am Michelle. I can't say Craig.
0:51 Speaker 02 That sounded odd.
0:53 Emma Grede? First of all, thank you for that because I have a lot of Mrs. Obama, Mr. Obama, Mrs. Obama all through my thing. I was not going to take the liberty. So thank you for that. I was ready to Mrs. Obama my way through this whole thing.
1:05 Speaker 02 I wouldn't have let you do that. I would not have let you. She might have kept it.
1:09 Emma Grede? No, I mean, listen, she stopped me straight away, which I'm very, very grateful for. But I want to start by saying I'm so happy to have you. I'm extremely grateful for the time and extremely excited to have this conversation. So we're here.
1:22 Speaker 01 This is family here. So we are happy to be here. You've been such a support to us, the foundation. You are amazing. So, and we're so proud of all that you're doing here. So we are thrilled. I will speak for my brother.
1:36 Speaker 02 She is, as she wants to do.
1:40 Emma Grede? Well, that means the most coming from you and we can just finish now because that's all I need. I am, honestly, it's just been so wonderful, even doing the research about the two of you. Because I have to say, I always wanted a big brother. I'm one of four girls. I don't, sadly don't have a big brother, but just hearing more about your relationship and the way you describe your relationship is just so beautiful. Like this idea of you having a protector, I think you said somewhere, you know, you feel. Like he's always got your arm, like he's always carrying you, has always got your back, which I thought was so lovely and so wonderful. And that's so nice. But his siblings, you know, we spent so much time together in our childhood. And I know that at some point you guys shared a bedroom, which I did with my sisters.
2:25 Emma Grede? And it gives like a different type of intensity to your relationships. And then, of course, we grow up, life happens, you go off and you do different things. And so my first question was really to ask both of you, how do you think your parents would feel about the two of you working together now and doing this podcast?
2:43 Speaker 02 That you hit us right in the heart, right with the first one.
2:46 Speaker 01 Well, you know, we, our mom, it's a year since her death in, in May.
2:51 Emma Grede? I'm so sorry.
2:52 Speaker 01 Um, and I think one of the reasons that, um, inspired us to, to start IMO was it was a great way, once Craig and I realized that we, we are the elders now in our family, losing our mom, and we've lost a lot of the seniors in our life, um, that our generation is now the, the generation with the wisdom. And, you know, when you lose your mom, you have to start embracing the truth of who you are. Um, no longer are you somebody's daughter or son, but you are the person that people are looking up to in your family, even though maybe that was the case long before because of our positions, but you don't feel it. So this podcast is kind of a
3:35 Speaker 01 tribute to our parents, um, a way for us to spend time together, to make it a point that we're spending time together, but also to share a lot of the wisdom that Marion and Fraser Robinson passed down to us around a kitchen table that got us both where we are today. So I, I know they would be proud.
3:57 Speaker 02 And they both would be cracking up too. They would, I, I think they would find it humorous that the two of us are sort of back in each other's lives like this. So, um, so closely. And I would just love to hear mom's reaction to some of the things, some of the topics we talked about.
4:18 Emma Grede? Do you think you'd get every episode feedback? Is that the type of family you come from?
4:22 Speaker 02 Oh, yeah, yeah, I think I especially our mom, my mom would be like, well, I don't remember that. Actually, she would she would claim not to remember anything negative and remember all of the things positive.
4:35 Emma Grede? I love that. Well, you know, I started this podcast because I really wanted to speak to the people that I aspire to the most. And Michelle, I mean, it goes without saying, and for probably for half the people on this planet, you are one of the most inspiring individuals ever. And I wonder who the two of you aspire to?
4:55 Speaker 02 Oh, I'll go first on that one, seeing how we we were just talking about this. You know, when I was little, I looked up to my dad. He was the guy I looked up to. Now, there were, like most boys, I had sports figures and entertainers that you were like, oh, I wouldn't mind doing that. And I wouldn't mind being Ernie Banks from the Chicago Cubs. But, you know, our dad was such a positive force in not just our lives, but anybody's life that he touched. And I really admired that about him. And Emma, you probably know
5:34 Speaker 02 he had a disability, he had MS. And I just, to me, it just made him even stronger because he got up every day and went to work. And when he came home, you know, Misha and I talked, we're just talking about this, he would sometimes come home and just get in front of the TV. But if we were outside playing, he'd come out and play with us, even after he was working. So, you know, I really aspired to be the type of dad that I that I had. So, that's who I looked up to.
6:08 Speaker 01 Yeah. And I think similarly, instead of aspiring to people that I don't know, or didn't meet, or haven't met, and I've met a lot of people over my life now, I think it was the people in our orbit. I mean, we came from a working class, lower middle class background, big family, but we had a lot of people to aspire to. You know, my great aunt Robbie. That I talk about in Becoming, who taught me how to play the piano, even though we were combatants at it. But she was someone in the community who was a real force. She taught piano lessons to the kids in the neighborhood. She ran what was called an operetta workshop where inner-city kids came to the basement of a church and learned opera and singing.
6:53 Speaker 01 And using the recorder, we learned how to enunciate, how to perform in the basement of a church. She was the musical director. She was a elementary school teacher. You know, we had people in our lives like that, real live role models, other teachers in in our lives that I think really left an impact and made me want to probably set the stage for me mentoring and understanding that I had an obligation in my life to do more than just make money or to work at a corporate firm. I think that that's those were the people who led me to feel like I owed more to life
7:35 Speaker 01 than sitting on the forty-seventh floor of a corporate firm and making money working for corporate clients.
7:41 Emma Grede? It's interesting that that's what you both took from your childhood, because I think when you grow up in somewhere like the South Side of Chicago, I mean, I grew up in a very similar area in England. There was so much negativity around me. I had a great family, but a lot of people complained a lot and they blamed a lot. And the sense that I get from the two of you is that while there was a lot of stuff happening around you, you were able and your family kind of created this amazing nucleus for you to, you know, feel like you should be mentors. How did like what was going on around you not seep through into what was happening in your childhood?
8:19 Speaker 02 Well, I would I would say, see, we're older than you are and it was a different time. And people weren't complaining. I don't remember people complaining around us. I I actually remember it being more of a village where
8:35 Emma Grede? Like a proper community.
8:36 Speaker 02 A proper community, yes. And I love that term, proper. A proper community, but. Where you had your neighbors and your friends' parents and teacher. Everybody was holding everybody accountable. And I think we just are missing that these days. For for whatever reason, people are fearful of parenting somebody else's kids when their parents aren't around. But I remember our mom saying that we were not anything special in the neighborhood. I mean, they loved us and nurtured us, but she also felt that our friends could do whatever we could do.
9:16 Speaker 01 Mm hmm.
9:17 Speaker 02 And the kids who were around the block who were single parent kids could do exactly what we could do with the right environment.
9:26 Speaker 01 So. There was always the question my mom got when we were in the White House. How did you raise two successful, highly, you know, aspirational figures? And as Craig said, mom would say, there are a million of Michelle and Craig Robinsons all over the the world. You know, my mom understood that excellence wasn't because of your birthright or money or status. Because she and my father, my my mother didn't work until I went to high school. She was a stay at home mom. Our dad was a stationary fireman, worked for the city. Um, he was a blue collar worker, but we came from a community of really smart people.
10:09 Speaker 01 They didn't have opportunity because of racism, but there was still a high rate of intelligence. Um, and they produce kids just like us.
10:18 Emma Grede? Yeah.
10:18 Speaker 01 And so there was a pride, you know, not not sort of anger or complaining.
10:25 Emma Grede? Mm hmm.
10:25 Speaker 01 There was a pride and a belief that what we had was more than enough. And I think that's probably why our role models are the people that were right before us. Because, no, they they weren't doctors and lawyers and successful politicians, but they were good people who cared about their kids, who cared about their community, who invested a lot in in the in the world. And I think there's still communities out there like it.
10:51 Emma Grede? I was gonna ask you that.
10:52 Speaker 01 Yeah.
10:52 Emma Grede? You do think there's because it's changed. So much now, right? You mentioned like, you know, that was a, it was a different time. And I think people really crave community.
10:59 Speaker 01 We also focus on the negative. And I think social media plays a role in that.
11:05 Emma Grede? Huge.
11:05 Speaker 01 Because, you know, showing shots of kids getting shot down in neighborhoods is a lot more eye catching than showing a bunch of kids going to school and doing their homework. And so I think a lot of communities get a bad rap because all you see is what's wrong. And we don't focus a lot on all that's right. I think Craig and I are living proof that there is not, not yesterday, but today, there are a lot of bright things happening in communities. We just have to continue to invest in them. We have to show kids that we believe in who they are, that we believe they have the skills. We saw it when we were in Malawi together, right?
11:50 Emma Grede? Unbelievable.
11:51 Speaker 01 We went to one of the poorest communities in a poor country. And we saw dozens of girls showing up, ready to learn. And they, they had less than any of us ever did growing up, but they had everything inside of them to achieve.
12:09 Emma Grede? Everything.
12:09 Speaker 01 You know, and we live in a world that stops believing in all kids. We grew up in a place where everyone believed in all kids. And, you know, that's a message. This is what can be, this is what you reap when you invest and you believe in all kids, regardless of where they come from or how much money they come from.
12:30 Emma Grede? I was actually going to talk about it much later in this conversation, but because you talk about how you're investing your time. I'd love you to talk to me a little bit more about the foundation and the work that you're doing at the foundation, because you've chose very purposefully with all of the things that you could do to invest specifically in and around leadership, believing in kids, believing in the good of people and what they're capable of. So why specifically leadership?
13:00 Speaker 01 It's leadership and it's more specifically young people. It's young leadership. So at the Obama Presidential Center, which is scheduled to open um in the late spring and summer of next year, and we are thrilled. It is not just a presidential center.
13:16 Emma Grede? Oh, no, it's not.
13:17 Speaker 01 It is an economic development engine on the South Side, down the street from where we grew up, across the street from a public high school.
13:24 Emma Grede? How proud are you to have it there?
13:25 Speaker 01 So proud, so proud. I mean, we are, you know, our blood, sweat and tears, who we are, our foundation, our roots, everything that we are was grounded in that community. And to be able to invest in that way, we are proud. But both Barack and I understand that change comes from the next generation. And we see it now, you know? If you overstay your welcome as a leader in any form, you don't make room for the next generation. And so Barack and I, in addition to both of us investing our lives in mentoring, we thought, well, we need to make room. You know, we, we need to use this part in our lives, not to continue to build who we are,
14:10 Speaker 01 but to make space for those that are coming. And leadership comes from all parts of the world, all parts of the country. And we're trying to bring together not just young leaders from the South Side of Chicago, but from Asia and Africa and all parts of the world. And one of the things that young people need in leadership is they need to know one another. They need to be able to network. They need to know that they're out there. And these aren't just leaders working in community development or in policy. I mean, the young people coming out of the Obama Presidential Center Leadership Programs could be sitting in C suites. They could be sitting in your seat.
14:47 Emma Grede? Yes.
14:48 Speaker 01 But the goal is to train them in a whole foundation of democracy and empathy and a whole different definition of what leadership can be, not what it looks like today.
15:01 Emma Grede? Exactly. And I think that that's so clear. I mean, I spent time in South Africa with the foundation as well. And I'm a very, very proud member of the board. But what was so interesting to me is looking at the Obama leaders is to see how varied they were. There were people working in reproductive health. There were people working in education. There were those working in climate change. And it was so interesting. I wonder what You know, has made you and of course, your husband and the and the team that you work with so uniquely positioned to tackle this issue. Like, what makes you able to take this on? Because it's no small feat.
15:40 Speaker 01 No, no. You know, look, Barack's presidency was the result of young people. You know, maybe it felt like it happened a long ago, but when Barack first announced, no one thought he would ever, the kid by the name of Barack Hussein Obama would ever be the first black president of the United States of America. And who believed in him first? Young people. People in their teens and twenties, you know, they were using the early versions of social media, which was Meetup, to develop their own.
16:13 Emma Grede? That really was a long time ago.
16:14 Speaker 01 Yeah, that was a very long time ago. When we entered the White House, we came with BlackBerrys. There were no iPhones. Social media didn't exist.
16:22 Emma Grede? Wow, that's crazy to think about.
16:24 Speaker 01 It came into being.
16:25 Emma Grede? We were all on BlackBerrys.
16:26 Speaker 01 First term, we were learning about Snapchat and Instagram, and it was all brand new. So the world was a world of young people. And so our field organizers, our, you know, our, our development folks, you know, the folks on the ground in that campaign that led to his win in Iowa and beyond, these were all mostly thirty and below, you know, young people. And so we saw firsthand the energy and the tenacity and the passion and the belief that young people bring to a movement. And so all those young people followed us into the White House. And so the eight years in the White House of learning about this country, learning
17:07 Speaker 01 how to lead, young men and women at the helms in all departments throughout the country. And in my opinion, we had some of the best progress with a level of optimism and hope and inclusion, because that's what you get when you work with young people.
17:26 Emma Grede? Oh, yeah. Well, and it had global ramifications. I didn't even live in this country at that point. And that was something that was felt globally. I mean, we would wake ourselves up in the middle of the night to watch those speeches that had no bearings on what was happening in England, but it did. You know, the ripple effects were felt so far and wide.
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18:53 Speaker 03 Do you ever wish you could ask nosey questions about people's money?
18:55 Speaker 04 I have $729.71 in my bank account.
18:59 Speaker 05 We bought a $1.3 million house on a $350,000 income.
19:04 Speaker 03 On the podcast What We Spend, we ask those questions. It's a show about money and all the feelings that come with spending it.
19:11 Speaker 06 I want to be the kind of person who can just take care of the people in my life.
19:16 Speaker 03 Listen to What We Spend, an Odyssey original, available now wherever you get your podcasts.
19:27 Emma Grede? Craig, I wanted to ask you, I mean, you've got lots of great memories, I'm sure, of Michelle in the early years, but is there something that you can share, like a memory that captures the essence and the core of who your sister is?
19:44 Speaker 02 Wow.
19:45 Emma Grede? I'm going to ask you the same question, since you can get ready.
19:49 Speaker 02 So, um, this is the essence of my sister.
19:56 Speaker 02 Imagine for my birthday, it was probably my fourth or fifth birthday, and I get a brand new bicycle, two wheeler with the training wheels. So I hadn't figured out how to ride a two wheeler yet. And it was a really, a real surprise. And I got my bike. I'm right, I ride it up in the basement. And who comes tooling around the corner on her tricycle, happier than I am that I got a new bike,
20:33 Speaker 02 was my little sister, who couldn't have been more than four years old. And she, she was so happy for me. And that embodies what kind of sister she is. She's just caring and selfless and happy for other people's success. And I use that one as an example, but I could probably come up with five or six more of those, where she was as happy as I was for my success.
21:02 Emma Grede? Just a generous person.
21:03 Speaker 02 Yes.
21:04 Emma Grede? That's so sweet.
21:06 Speaker 02 You remember that?
21:06 Speaker 01 I do, I do. It's one of my favorite pictures of us, me in my little favorite red velvet dress on my tricycle. And I'm looking up at him like, look at my big brother. He's amazing.
21:18 Emma Grede? That is just a sweet image. Do you have a memory of Craig that will tell me?
21:23 Speaker 01 I mean, that's, that's one of the, I mean, that's what I thought of my brother. He was amazing. He was an amazing person to follow after because everyone loved Craig, I mean, deeply. And I would tease my mom. I was like, I, First Lady of the United States, and you still, you know, light up like a Christmas tree when Craig walks in, right? It's like, what more do I have to do?
21:46 Emma Grede? Mums and sons.
21:48 Speaker 01 It's, it's, it's true for me. I was like, hey, lady, you're living in the White House. You know, what else, what, I can't, I can't top that.
21:56 Emma Grede? My son is here.
21:57 Speaker 01 That's right.
21:57 Speaker 02 It's hard being the favorite.
21:58 Emma Grede? So what are you gonna do?
21:59 Speaker 02 It's hard.
22:00 Speaker 01 But the thing is, is like, I agree. He's my favorite. He's a lot of people's favorites. And, you know, one of the memories is just our time in Princeton. Cause we were at Princeton together.
22:12 Emma Grede? You were?
22:13 Speaker 01 For two years. Yeah, we overlapped for two years.
22:16 Emma Grede? How proud was your family?
22:18 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah.
22:21 Speaker 01 But my brother was big man on campus, right? Because he was division one starter on the basketball team, all Ivy. So he was big man on campus. And we weren't raised to be close, close, like, like up under each other. I mean, our mother was like, you have your life, he has yours. Because he was the kind of person that would stop what he was doing to make sure I was okay. So my mother was like, you cannot worry about your little sister. You need to get on with your life. So we were together but apart. But the times that we were together, he would take me to alumni booster dinners, which were these free dinners at rich people's houses. And he would just bring along his little sister.
23:01 Emma Grede? That is really big. I never wanted to take my little sisters anywhere. My mom would be like, take your sister. I'd be like, oh, come on.
23:08 Speaker 02 And my mom was the complete opposite. I was like, I gotta bring her with.
23:12 Emma Grede? She's like, no, leave her.
23:13 Speaker 01 But then he would bring me. And, you know, I could just bask in his glow. But my brother is a deeply kind, honest person who I can count on for anything at the drop of the hat. And in those White House years, just knowing that they would show up when we just needed some grounding in family, just regular, where the girls needed regular old family. You know, not special people looking at them differently. Just they needed to be reminded of who they were, where they came from. And having my brother and his family come around during those times was meant the world to me and Barack.
23:55 Emma Grede? No doubt. It seems to me that your family are such a huge influence in your lives and the people that you've grown into being. And I just wonder if you've been able to, like, over the years and in hindsight, pinpoint like, what is the framework that you were given? The tools that you were given have made you both so incredibly successful, but also just like have such an incredible family, don't you?
24:21 Speaker 02 I would start with the fact that our parents loved us unconditionally. That was.
24:26 Emma Grede? You always felt that as a kid.
24:28 Speaker 02 Always.
24:29 Emma Grede? Even if you do something really bad, you like knew it.
24:32 Speaker 02 Well, I never did anything bad.
24:33 Emma Grede? You didn't?
24:34 Speaker 01 No, he stole gum off the teacher's desk.
24:36 Speaker 02 I stole gum off the teacher's desk once and that was, that was the worst thing I've done. But I can tell you. My, my parents made us, well, I did stuff to Misha every now and then. But our parents would.
24:51 Emma Grede? Just evil.
24:52 Speaker 02 Even through all of that, our parents just absolutely loved us. And not only did they love us, but we felt the love, but they always showed it. And that was number one. And then when you think about our dad, who was disabled with MS. From the time we could remember, he had, he walked with a limp that got progressively worse. He got up and went to work every day. He was such a hard worker. And I think that drove us to be hard workers. So you, you're loved and you have this great example of hard work. And then to use a term that wasn't around back then.
25:35 Speaker 02 Our parents were really emotionally intelligent.
25:39 Emma Grede? Wow.
25:39 Speaker 02 And I think they imprinted that on us. And at least certainly I can see it in Misha all the time when she's dealing with people, dealing with the public.
25:53 Emma Grede? Yes.
25:54 Speaker 02 And I feel it, you know, in coaching and I feel it, I felt it in leadership positions. And those three things are the things that I think about when you, when you ask, what is it about our family?
26:06 Speaker 01 You know, it's interesting because we didn't talk about that. And I'm listening to you and I actually jotted down sort of, well, what are my principles? And just listening to him, I wrote down, um, do what you're passionate about. Do the best that you can, be as prepared as you can. And operate with empathy.
26:27 Emma Grede? I'm so happy that you mentioned that because I have been thinking, you know, I'm like in this sort interesting third chapter of my life and career. And I've been thinking a lot about, well, what do you want to do? And what do you put out there? And for me, everything starts from like these foundational principles. And my team, because I talk about the principles all the time, my head, they were like, what are your principles? And I told them like, you have to do an episode on that. So I did like my first solo episode. Very scared of like channeling my inner like, no, Bob.
26:55 Speaker 02 And you're just talking with no one to talk to?
26:58 Emma Grede? Just with no, with no one to talk to.
27:00 Speaker 01 No, because my studio was better. I, I, I would do that.
27:03 Emma Grede? It's really, it's really scary. You really test yourself. But then I realized I can talk for a long time. And they were like, all right, you're done. Cut and get her out of here. But it was interesting because it really made me bake down like what makes me me and what do I care about? And that's why I wanted to ask you those things because I think we all find you and your family so unbelievably fascinating. And when you see the dynamic between you two, it's so clear that there's just some like foundational stuff there. There's just stuff that you have that must have come from your parents, that must have come from your upbringing. And I love the fact that you talk about emotional intelligence because that, that wasn't a bedrock of my upbringing. I had to learn that and learn it the hard way.
27:44 Emma Grede? But I imagine as parents, that's something that you were both acutely aware of. And you've tried to give to your kids as, as a foundational principle.
27:52 Speaker 01 Absolutely. I mean, we spend more time talking about how you treat other people. I mean, I tried to make it a point, um, just as a parenting principle, not to talk about school and grades with the kids at the table. Because when you have an older one and one coming up, you don't know who the younger one is gonna be.
28:15 Emma Grede? You're like creating a dynamic almost, right?
28:17 Speaker 01 Right. You're, you're creating the dynamic and first daughter, brilliant, precocious. And so is the second one. But I was very careful to not sort of overdo, oh, you got an A. Oh, this happened. Oh, you achieved these things because I'm thinking emotionally, this one isn't even coming up yet. And what if that's not who she is or who she wants to be? And if she sees us falling all over the first one for. You know, things, what is that? Tell her.
28:51 Emma Grede? Yeah. And how does it change the way she behaves without you even knowing because she wants to please you?
28:56 Speaker 01 So we spent more time talking about what happened at school, friendships, how did you feel? Because I felt like that was more neutral territory, you know? Let's talk through problems, you know? Okay, great, you're doing well at school, that's for you, good for you. But it's not, you know, it's, it's not the basis of our dynamic here, so.
29:18 Emma Grede? And what did you care about? Like, when you think about, like, what are the things that you were like, but, but this is a must do in this house?
29:24 Speaker 01 Kindness, self-possession. I wanted my kids to.
29:30 Emma Grede? Say more, Michelle, I love that.
29:32 Speaker 01 I wanted my kids to be okay with speaking up for themselves, but not by putting somebody else down. I, I wanted my girls to know how to fight for themselves. Uh, I wanted them to know how to advocate for themselves, how to communicate.
29:53 Emma Grede? How did you even teach that?
29:55 Speaker 01 Oh, my gosh, it, you know, I think, I, I think for us, it, it's a lot of talking to your kids. I mean, it's, when we talk about the kitchen table, part of IMO, and we sit around a table, is that we spend our time, our house was so small, everything happened in the kitchen table.
30:13 Emma Grede? Condensed.
30:14 Speaker 01 That was, that was the place, and everybody in our family, extended family, they came and we sat around the table and we talked about everything. We heard about our uncle's exploits at work. He was a detective and he would tell long stories about cases he was on. And everybody was a storyteller and everybody was sort of putting their lives and their issues on the table. And the kids were allowed to be there.
30:39 Emma Grede? Exactly, you had a lot of exposure.
30:41 Speaker 01 To witness, and no one was shushed. Like, if you had, if you had a question and if you, you had to be polite about it.
30:48 Emma Grede? Yes.
30:49 Speaker 01 But you were a part of the conversation and our parents, more so than anyone in our family, encouraged kids to do that. And so I wanted, I think we both in our households wanted to create that same dynamic of voice.
31:04 Speaker 01 Right? Because that's where you practice empathy. You test out theories. You come home, something happened at school and we're gonna talk about it.
31:12 Emma Grede? Because we're talkers, that's what we do.
31:14 Speaker 01 We're not gonna solve it for you. Um, but we're gonna talk it through and we wanna hear, well, what would you have done? And why did you do that? What did you think about that? I mean, practicing almost scenarios in a way, real life and imaginary scenarios. And it's the conversation and the patience. And something that we lose when everybody these days separates into their own rooms and their own phones.
31:40 Emma Grede? Yes, and their own devices.
31:41 Speaker 01 And their own devices.
31:42 Emma Grede? Or when parents don't share things with their kids. You know, I often hear, especially because I've moved to LA, it's like, that's not a conversation for a kid. You know, and I was brought up, again, much like you, just hearing everything, the good, the bad, the slightly inappropriate.
31:55 Speaker 01 It was never not a, if something happened at a family dinner, somebody had an argument or somebody said something crazy. Maybe we wouldn't talk about it then, but in the car ride home, we'd be like, well.
32:06 Emma Grede? You were talking about it.
32:07 Speaker 01 Tell us about what Aunt Such and Such said. Can you help us understand what's going on? So I, I think helping, giving kids credit for understanding context. You know, not dumbing things down, you know, not having conversations that are too above kids.
32:24 Emma Grede? Inappropriate, yes, of course.
32:26 Speaker 01 But taking children's curiosity, not as disrespect, but as an opportunity to teach.
32:33 Emma Grede? Yes.
32:34 Speaker 01 You know, my mother, for example, she used to tell the story about Craig, you know, um, when he was a baby. That when he was learning how to do some things, he would get on the couch and he wanted to get off on his own. And instead of stopping him from doing it, she said, I took the time to show him at, as early as two, that you could turn around, scoot yourself down and get off the couch by yourself. So instead of telling him, don't get off the couch, you're too young, or be careful. She was like, let me teach him.
33:06 Emma Grede? Yes.
33:06 Speaker 01 And she always talked about how smart kids were, how smart babies were. She was aware, she was an early. Early childhood development protege before it was a thing. She was very into how kids, children, babies thought. And she understood that they were smart and that they had ideas very early on. That's all emotional intelligence.
33:32 Emma Grede? Yes, yes.
33:33 Speaker 01 And I, I think like that. I think like that about my kids. I think about that, about my staff and my people. My, my whole question in life is, why are you doing what you're doing? What made you say that? Before I react, I think, what's your context?
33:50 Emma Grede? Do you think that that is a good conversation that people should have with themselves? Cause I feel like it's one that I'm having constantly with myself right now. Like, why am I doing what I'm doing? And what is the point of all of this? And so going back to your principles, it feels like you guys were raised to question yourselves. To have the emotional intelligence to go inside yourselves and figure it out.
34:14 Speaker 01 Yes.
34:15 Speaker 02 Our mom was really good about saying, you tell me why you want to do something. It, it was so, so it was, you had some agency in anything you wanted to do. So if I wanted to, if I wanted to go over to a girl's house and we, we, we've talked about this before. She wouldn't say no. She would say, well, what do you think? And you imagine how much pressure that puts on you.
34:45 Speaker 01 Especially when you go to your parent and you say, what do you think is the best? And it's like, I just want you to tell me.
34:51 Emma Grede? Yeah, please.
34:52 Speaker 02 Just tell me the right answer, cause I don't want to mess this up. And I, I, that kind of agency gives you confidence.
35:01 Emma Grede? Yes.
35:01 Speaker 02 To make good decisions, no matter what the situation. And another point that Mish mentioned, she mentioned empathy. My mom was the type, um, when I would, she would come to our school and help out early, before people really did that. She was part of the team.
35:19 Speaker 01 Before they were room parents.
35:20 Speaker 02 Before they were room parents. She would just come. She knew how hard a teacher's job was. And she'd come and offer some help. And she came to my class once and I got my work done and, and I, I was walking around, talking to other kids. And my mom said, well, what are you doing? And I said, I'm done with my work. She said, well, why don't you help somebody else who needs help? And it never had crossed my mind to do that.
35:45 Emma Grede? Well, you're a kid. I mean.
35:46 Speaker 02 Cause I'm a kid.
35:47 Emma Grede? You're a kid.
35:48 Speaker 02 And I think being a good leader, you have to have empathy for the people you lead. Because their upbringings aren't the same as yours and their experiences aren't the same as yours. But if you can contextualize why they're doing something to Michelle's point, you'll be a better leader.
36:08 Emma Grede? No doubt. It's such a, it's, it's absolutely true. I mean, I feel like I'm in constant conversation, thinking about that all the time. Like what, what is happening for this person that that's the reaction? How can I see it from their point of view? And it's, and again, it comes from a place of empathy. You have to be able to see it from their point of view.
36:29 Speaker 01 And the questioning that you were mentioning, the constant questioning. Yes, that's what we were raised to do, to always ask our own why. So when I was, my first job out of law school, I, of course, after graduating Harvard, as I wrote about, I did what all Harvard grads did. I started working at a big corporate firm, making as much money as I could.
36:53 Emma Grede? You were just on a trajectory.
36:54 Speaker 01 I was on a trajectory. I was checking a box, not questioning, because I was on my path.
36:59 Emma Grede? Well, and also because it's like, you just come out of Harvard. You're like, I earned that too. So I'm gonna do that. I'm gonna take the check.
37:04 Speaker 01 I also had a ton of debt.
37:05 Emma Grede? Oh, yes. You needed the money.
37:07 Speaker 01 I needed the money. But I, I talked about one of the turning points, early turning points in my life, was when I lost my father and then I, the same year I lost one of my best friends to lymphoma. First time I had lost people close to me in.
37:23 Emma Grede? And you're 27 at this point?
37:25 Speaker 01 26, 20, yeah, young.
37:29 Speaker 01 And I had to look at myself and say, is this, is, is this who I am? I mean, did I do all of this to just work in this firm? And there's nothing wrong with working in a firm, but I hadn't questioned myself. I realized that I needed to figure out my why. Am I here for the right reason? And if I'm not. What else can I be doing? And have I, have I tried anything else on before choosing this? And I think it's, it's that, tha- that helped get me into a career of service.
38:03 Emma Grede? Yes.
38:04 Speaker 01 You know, and I don't, I, I probably wouldn't have done it. My, my parents weren't questioning me. They, they supported every-
38:10 Emma Grede? No, no one's questioned you going to the top law firm.
38:12 Speaker 01 Exactly.
38:13 Emma Grede? Everyone's like, you've done it. You've, you made it.
38:15 Speaker 01 And, and they didn't know what else you could be. I mean, we had already kind of surpassed them in terms of education and experience, right? So they, but they were still mentoring us through this act of showing us how to continue to dig inside and figure out our why. And I, I am doing that every day.
38:34 Emma Grede? That was my next question. Do you, do you still do that? Do you feel like it happens with like frequency in your life?
38:39 Speaker 01 I, I'm at another why point now. I mean, you know, it's why I tell people, you never stop becoming. You know, here I am, I am sixty one, am I sixty one now?
38:50 Speaker 02 You're sixty one.
38:50 Speaker 01 Thank you. And, you know, and sort of like, how old am I? Sixty one years old, have I done enough? Is, is, is it time to stop?
39:00 Emma Grede? You ask yourself that? Have I done enough?
39:02 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah, I'm, I'm in therapy, you know, trying to figure out why do I keep asking myself that? But I'm, I'm sixty one, but I'm only-
39:10 Emma Grede? What's the answer? What are they telling, why do you keep asking yourself that?
39:13 Speaker 01 Ah, I, I haven't-
39:16 Speaker 02 She's driven.
39:17 Speaker 01 I, there's a, there's a drive and there's a sense of responsibility. There's probably a bit of survivor's remorse, you know? There's also just a truth that there's so much to be done, you know? That it's hard for me to look at problems and not figure out what can I do to solve it.
39:36 Emma Grede? Is that a burden for you?
39:38 Speaker 01 Yeah, it is.
39:39 Emma Grede? Do you have the same, do you have the same feeling?
39:41 Speaker 02 So I don't, and the only reason I don't have it is because I'm still raised, where my Kel-, my wife Kelly and I are still raising a fifteen year old, a thirteen year old.
39:50 Emma Grede? Because you have four kids, correct?
39:51 Speaker 02 I have four kids.
39:51 Emma Grede? Two that are grownups and then two that are in high-
39:53 Speaker 02 Thirty-three and twenty-nine, and then fifteen and thirteen. So going into sophomore year and going into the eighth grade.
39:59 Emma Grede? Because you know I have four too.
40:01 Speaker 02 I know you have four kids.
40:01 Emma Grede? Four's a lot of kids, isn't it?
40:03 Speaker 01 It's a lot.
40:03 Emma Grede? Let's have a sympathy thing right now.
40:05 Speaker 02 We went two and two, so what you're doing is actually harder.
40:09 Emma Grede? Then you schmush them all together.
40:10 Speaker 02 You schmush them all together.
40:12 Emma Grede? I think it might be easier. You still have some of the stuff, you're still, your head's still like scrambled.
40:17 Speaker 01 Emma, you haven't thought about your why, you know? After, after two, I was like, hmm, what's my why?
40:23 Speaker 02 And running two companies out, but?
40:24 Emma Grede? I'm like, why?
40:26 Speaker 02 On the board of the foundation? You got, wait, why, why?
40:29 Emma Grede? I'm like, ma, ma, why?
40:31 Speaker 02 Why am I doing this is the question?
40:33 Speaker 01 Emma, are you driven?
40:36 Emma Grede? You know, I had good role models. Let me tell you what you did, like you fired up every woman on the planet. And I think that that's the truth because again, living in England, you know, there, there were just women. And I've spoken about this so many times. It's not just because you're here and I want to kiss some ass, but it's the truth. You know, like Oprah for me was like the one. You'd come home and I would run home from school because Oprah came on at three forty five. And so I would get my fix and I would like, you know, I learned about gratitude and I learned about like the, you know, the, the good stuff that I wasn't seeing around me, like
41:08 Speaker 01 Yeah.
41:08 Emma Grede? community, empathy, how do you take care of people? What does mindfulness mean? So I learned all this stuff and throughout my life, I feel like people have appeared, right? To kind of show me the way.
41:19 Speaker 01 Yeah.
41:19 Emma Grede? And, you know, for so many of us, we saw you and we were like, wow, she is a lawyer. And she's so accomplished. And now she's going to take on this whole like situation around what everybody's eating. And then she's going to be out here speaking and look at her arms and look at her outfit and she's so good. And it was like all the things. And so in my head, I was like, well, of course I can. And I think that that's so important because I truly believe you can't be what you don't see.
41:46 Speaker 01 That's for sure.
41:46 Emma Grede? And one of my biggest reasons for wanting to so bad be on the board of the Obama Foundation. I made no secret of it. I told everybody else, like, what about me? I can pull myself up for that. But you know, for me, again, it's about this idea of What are you putting out there and how many people can it impact? And I feel like in both of your careers, you haven't just settled with making something great for yourselves and making something great for your families. But you've got had these kind of like huge tentacles and that is really admirable. And I think that, you know, the ripe age of forty two right now, you start to think about a lot of things beyond yourself and beyond your own family. And that's why for me, it's so fascinating that at this point in your life, you two
42:31 Emma Grede? have chosen to come together and share all of this golden stuff because it's what the world needs, like we need to hear that. I need to understand your principles. I wanna know like how I should raise my kids. I wanna know like what you did wrong, quite honestly. I want, I want all of it, like all the information. So we are like eating it up right now, like taking notes literally all the time. And I feel like your whole family and the way that you guys are is just a big, beautiful lesson for all of us. So we should be so lucky. I really feel like that.
43:03 Speaker 01 And it still goes back to what our mom said, cause he quotes it a lot. We are not special. There are millions of Michelle and Craigs out there. You know this too. We are not rare. It's just opportunity, luck. We happen to have two good parents, you know? Our souls are the same. Our intellect is the same. But when you luck up on two good parents.
43:31 Emma Grede? Lock up.
43:32 Speaker 01 You know?
43:33 Emma Grede? It's a big deal.
43:34 Speaker 01 So, yeah, I feel like I have a responsibility to the millions of other Craigs and Michelles that are coming up that may not get that lucky piece. And for kids like us, you know, you don't get it all, you miss a piece and it's, the trajectory is intense.
43:55 Emma Grede? Yes.
43:56 Speaker 01 There's no room for error for kids like us. And I, it really makes me emotional, you know? Cause I think of one step away and, you know, this guy could be seen as a criminal, as somebody who's dangerous. One step away, I could have been. You know, somebody who could have never gotten into college with the same mind, the same possibility, the same heart, the same soul. So I do feel a responsibility to cast a broad net and to be the light for somebody. You know, some kid like me, you know, who didn't have the right mom, didn't have the right mix.
44:40 Speaker 01 Things just didn't work out perfectly for us. You know, and this is what I want this country to understand. It's like, life is unfair for a lot of kids. There are no safety nets for many of us. We provide that safety net for each other through our taxes, through our giving, through our empathy, through our openness, especially when you have enough, when you've been blessed with plenty. Our responsibility, our principle should be, how do we spread that? Because guess what I've learned? There's enough for me to have a lot, because I've had many careers. I've made money. I don't believe in not making money.
45:22 Emma Grede? Thank you.
45:23 Speaker 01 But I also-
45:24 Emma Grede? It's nice of you to say that part too, right? Because I don't think it's either or.
45:26 Speaker 01 It's not either or. You can do both. You know, you can make a lot of money, you can pay your fair share of taxes. There can be a good social safety net. You can have good insurance and everybody can have good insurance. You know, we can all, there's plenty on this planet to go around and it's not a zero sum game. And so that's what keeps driving me is like, to whom much is given, much is expected, you know? And we're a great country. Many of us have been given a lot and there are a lot of people within our own midst who don't have enough. And it's not because I'm special and they're not. It's not because I worked harder and deserved it more and they didn't,
46:10 Speaker 01 because I know who those people are and they are not all the same color as me.
46:14 Emma Grede? They are not.
46:14 Speaker 01 They come from all walks of life. We can't make assumptions about who people are and what they can do based on the color of their skin. There are well-deserving, poor people in- Appalachia and they're well deserving poor people on the South Side of Chicago. And all of them are not getting a fair shake. They don't have good enough schools. They don't get health care. And I feel it is our responsibility not just to have principles for our own individual selves, but have principles that are going to impact a broader swath of people because it makes us all better. Oh, yes. And that's It really does. That's the thing that keeps me pushing forward and feeling like, have I done enough?
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48:30 Speaker 01 Hi, everyone. This is Kara Swisher. And I'm Scott Galloway. And we want to tell you about Pivot, our twice weekly podcast. That's right, Kara. What a thrill. It's a chance for us to break down all the big things happening in tech, business, and politics. Yes, and I keep you in check so people can make it through each episode, whether it's digging into constant changes in the world of AI. Guy on social media or trying to keep up with whatever the fuck Elon is doing. We're here to give you our take on all of that. Every Tuesday and Friday morning, we drop a new episode about some of the major stories of the moment. And Scott is a prediction machine gazing into his crystal ball to tell you about where it's all heading. That's right. So if that sounds like a good time for you, especially Mr. That's right. You can follow us on your favorite podcast app to get new episodes every week. Boom.
49:23 Emma Grede? So Michelle, what do you say to somebody listening today who thinks she's absolutely right? I really believe that to my core, but I don't know where to start. I work my regular job. I'm pretty okay. Like, how do you start to extend yourself and have a broader impact if you want one?
49:42 Speaker 01 Well, one of the principles that I talk about in the light is start small. You know, um, the power in small change is really real, you know? And sometimes we get ahead of ourselves because we think it has to be big. And look, not all of us will ever have the platform to have big impact. And that's okay because big impact is limited. Look, I lived with the president of the United States of America and there were so many things he couldn't get done because there are limits on that power. And as we are learning, it's good to have some limits on power.
50:22 Speaker 01 You know, it's good to have a democracy with checks and balances. There's a reason for that. But I also think that like a teacher, oh, being a good teacher, that's some power. Being a good parent to the children you bring into this planet. Small, right there in your lap.
50:43 Emma Grede? Right there in your house.
50:44 Speaker 01 It's like, don't, you don't have to do, you don't have to do anything else, but raise the kids you brought into the world. That doesn't mean you have to be rich. That means you have to be present.
50:55 Emma Grede? And proper.
50:55 Speaker 01 That means you have to have some theories of your why.
50:59 Emma Grede? Yeah.
50:59 Speaker 01 You know, it's not just, why do I want to be important? It's like, why do I want to be a mother? Why did I bring this kid here? And now that they're here, what's my responsibility? I would just say to people, focus. Right in your lap first. Take care of the thing that you have control and power over. And sometimes it's as small as yourself. Like that's like if you can rethink your why.
51:24 Emma Grede? It might just be yourself.
51:25 Speaker 01 It may be yourself. Wonder, well, why are you angry? Why don't you want to give? Why are you mad? What are you mad about? Where's that coming from? So I just encourage people, start with what you can control. Don't try to change your community. Do you have a little cousin who's looking up to you? Do you have a neighborhood kid down the street from you who looks up to you? We all have someone looking up to us. And living a life where we're a role model to those people in small ways. Being good, going to work, being responsible. Doesn't mean you have to be an NBA star. Doesn't mean you have to be a Steph Curry. You don't have to be Michelle Obama to make change. You know, it starts right here.
52:10 Speaker 01 And I would encourage people, start small. Start where you are.
52:14 Emma Grede? Start right where you are.
52:15 Speaker 01 But just be really committed to it and passionate about it. Right? Don't half ass it, right?
52:21 Emma Grede? That's a really important thing. Like don't half ass it. Do something small and do it for real, for real.
52:25 Speaker 01 Then do it for real, for real. If you're gonna be in somebody's, a kid's life, then be there. You know, you don't have to be perfect in it. You don't have to be there every day. But when you say you're gonna do something for a kid, then do it.
52:36 Emma Grede? Yeah.
52:37 Speaker 01 And if you can't do it, then don't say you can. That's another thing we learned from our parents. They didn't, they couldn't give us much. But if they told us they were gonna do something or be somewhere, they did it. You know, they didn't lie.
52:50 Emma Grede? That's the same where I come from. If you're from East London, like your word is key.
52:54 Speaker 01 Is your, your word is your bond.
52:56 Emma Grede? Yes.
52:56 Speaker 01 You know, and if you can't do it, then say you can. Honesty and your word. Our father couldn't give us much. But he showed up whenever he said he was, he was consistent. So I picked a man like my father. Barack Obama is a consistent man in my life and my daughter's life. And when he says he's gonna do something for us, he does it. My brother, consistent man in my life. You know, small things.
53:22 Emma Grede? Small things. Craig, did you have the same type of like important people in your life outside the family? I mean, like mentors or somebody that helped you out in that way?
53:34 Speaker 02 I did, I did. It was my extended family. My dad's younger brothers.
53:41 Speaker 02 Who were closer to us in age than he was to my father.
53:46 Speaker 01 There's a gap in there.
53:47 Speaker 02 There was a little gap in there when they.
53:49 Emma Grede? I love the young uncles. They were the most fun.
53:51 Speaker 01 Oh, God.
53:51 Emma Grede? They could do so much good stuff for you.
53:55 Speaker 02 And so this was during the time of of high black activism.
54:00 Emma Grede? Right.
54:00 Speaker 02 Black Panthers, that kind of thing. And they allowed me in that world at an early age, you know, ten, eleven years old.
54:08 Emma Grede? Did you have a natural interest anyway?
54:10 Speaker 02 I had a natural interest in anything they were doing.
54:13 Emma Grede? Ah, OK, so it was more about them than the cause at that point.
54:16 Speaker 02 That's how I looked up to them. Because one was an athlete, the other was a bookworm.
54:21 Emma Grede? Mm hmm.
54:22 Speaker 02 And I wanted to be like both of them. They taught me how to stand. Even though my sister doesn't agree, they taught me how to talk to girls. Even though I didn't put it into practice until later.
54:35 Speaker 01 He was too busy playing basketball. He was on the court.
54:38 Emma Grede? Taking your time.
54:39 Speaker 02 So it started with them. And then it moved on to basketball coaches. I had a couple of really good young basketball coaches. Johnny Gage, who I thought was older than I was, ended up being closer to me in age. We we were like twelve and eleven and twelve, and he was nineteen. But he was, he held us accountable. He was fair and he cared about us.
55:06 Emma Grede? Do you remember any of the advice that they gave you?
55:09 Speaker 02 My uncles said, whenever you're standing on the street, never stand with your feet together. Always stand with one foot pointing forward and the other
55:23 Speaker 02 other foot pointing at ten o'clock.
55:25 Emma Grede? Why is this? Explain this to me immediately.
55:28 Speaker 02 No, they didn't. No, listen.
55:30 Emma Grede? Is this someone coming to push you? Like, is this an attack situation?
55:34 Speaker 02 This wasn't. This this turns out to be really true because you do public speaking, right?
55:39 Emma Grede? Yes.
55:39 Speaker 02 When you have to stand somewhere for a long time, if you stand with both of your legs under you, you can't stand as long as you can if you stand at twelve o'clock and ten o'clock.
55:52 Speaker 02 They were right.
55:53 Emma Grede? Is he, is he?
55:54 Speaker 02 They were right.
55:55 Speaker 01 He's true about the advice.
55:57 Emma Grede? Is that an elegance that, yes, that's a man thing.
55:59 Speaker 02 It's a man thing.
56:00 Emma Grede? That is not a god. We cannot take that on.
56:02 Speaker 02 It could be a man thing.
56:03 Speaker 01 They didn't let me in the room for that lesson.
56:06 Speaker 02 That, that was something that stuck out in my mind for a long time. Um, and then of course, coaches giving you advice about how to play. Um, and then other people outside of my dad. So I, I just, it's, it's mostly uncles.
56:23 Speaker 01 It's a lot of man advice stuff.
56:25 Emma Grede? Yeah, but this is, I mean, the men need different advice. Ain't it the truth?
56:30 Speaker 02 It's, and we were just in a discussion about how we don't, we didn't get any inner advice as men back then. Cause you know.
56:36 Emma Grede? It wasn't the thing.
56:38 Speaker 02 It wasn't a thing.
56:38 Emma Grede? They were teaching you how to stand.
56:40 Speaker 02 You know what they were doing? They were teaching you how, they were teaching you how to be a leader. That's what, I mean.
56:47 Speaker 01 Under a male, in under a male paradigm.
56:50 Speaker 02 Of course.
56:51 Emma Grede? Well, and it is so different, isn't it? I mean, you have to do things very differently as a woman.
56:57 Speaker 02 There weren't women leaders back then.
56:58 Emma Grede? That's true.
56:59 Speaker 02 She's 61, I'm 63. Back then, the only female leaders you saw were in the classroom.
57:06 Emma Grede? Is that true?
57:07 Speaker 02 Just think about it. It was very few female police officers, firefighters, very few women in leadership positions. And they, they had to be in the church at the choir. You saw people in those categories in, in the education field, but you never saw them in, you know.
57:27 Speaker 01 This is why we're in the mess we're in.
57:29 Speaker 02 Well, my dad would take me to his job and there were no women there. Um, but it, you know, it, it, there were a lot of people outside of my parents who sort of showed me the way.
57:44 Emma Grede? Show you the way. Michelle, I wanted to switch gears a bit because I was looking back at your career and all of the chapters that you've had, and I wondered if you ever thought about where you might be now had public life not intervened?
57:59 Speaker 01 Yeah. I mean, I probably, and public life and Barack Obama hadn't intervened, right? Because I was on my checkbox checking path, just like, because when you grow up in a working class family.
58:14 Speaker 01 We didn't have, I didn't have parents who could show me what was possible, you know. My mom used to joke after I was 10, she was like, well, you're on your own kid. So, meeting Barack was someone outside of the box checking paradigm, right? He was, had been a community organizer before he went to law school. He had taken a gap year. He had worked in, he had done so much and he wasn't interested in the typical trajectory. So, when I was also starting to ask this why in my career, it was around the time that I met him.
58:49 Speaker 01 And he opened up a whole world of possibility of how to think about life. So, yeah, if I had met him.
58:59 Emma Grede? Do you think he changed the way you thought about what you were gonna do?
59:02 Speaker 01 He gave me courage to take this step away. I, I think.
59:08 Emma Grede? How did he do that?
59:10 Speaker 01 You know, because we had started dating and there was also the question of how do I afford to take the step away? Right?
59:17 Emma Grede? Because you're making good money.
59:19 Speaker 01 And I still had debt. I mean, our combined, our student loan debt was more than our first mortgage after we got married. And because we didn't stay on the monetary path, we both went into public service. We didn't pay off our debt until Barack wrote Dreams For My Father and became a bestseller. Right? We would, you know, this is the massive amount of student loan debt that we had. We were in our late 30s, 40s, right? Because we got off the money making path and I worked in the city and every job I took, I made less money. But I was more and more fulfilled. So, I think had I not met him and his view was, we'll figure this out together.
1:00:03 Speaker 01 We got each other's backs. I think that was the first step into let me give this a try. And it was.
1:00:12 Emma Grede? You disagree?
1:00:12 Speaker 01 What do you mean?
1:00:13 Emma Grede? Please tell us.
1:00:15 Speaker 02 I love my brother-in-law. She would have made that move eventually herself.
1:00:20 Speaker 01 You think so?
1:00:20 Speaker 02 Because we all have that thought process. She would have developed the courage to make it on her own.
1:00:27 Speaker 01 Perhaps, but the question was, where would I be? I don't, I don't know. I mean, I, maybe I would have taken the leap. And, but if I couldn't afford to, right? If I found myself still struggling to pay my bills, I might have gone back. I might have gone back because I might have been like, you know what? I'm, I'm struggling with this lower salary. But I wouldn't have been as happy. Yes, no doubt. I wouldn't have been as fulfilled. I, I wouldn't have felt this level of purpose. I mean, with every job I took, I, I was going deeper into my own community, my own city, learning it in ways that I never knew existed.
1:01:10 Speaker 01 I mean, I feel like I know Chicago inside and out because through working for the city and Department of Planning and Development, working with the mayor, running a nonprofit organization, I have literally set foot in every community in the Chicagoland area. And most people don't do that. Most people live in their communities. They're born and raised. If you're born and raised on the South Side, you don't know what the North Side is. You never go to the West Side. The world of the city opened up to me. And so it made it easy then to try new things. It prepared me to be the First Lady of the United States because after doing all this stuff outside of law, being the First Lady of the United States was easy in comparison. Really?
1:01:55 Speaker 01 You know, I had started nonprofit organizations. I had worked in city government before, where I had to start stuff from scratch and work in, on projects that I knew nothing about and had to learn on the spot. You know, learning how to build teams and work with teams. So by the time I got to become the First Lady, it was like another startup, nonprofit, you know? Where I knew how to define a mission and a vision. Yeah. And how to develop a strategy and build a team. And to execute against a set of goals. I mean, that's how I approached my eight years. It was like
1:02:30 Emma Grede? It's a proper business.
1:02:31 Speaker 01 It's a business and we are gonna get things done. We're gonna understand our mission. We're like a small subsidiary within this big, you know, administration that is run by my husband. So I had to think in terms of strategies and initiatives that would complement what he was doing and not compete with what he was doing. And I had to do it with basically no staff because the first lady doesn't have a budget. Well, I was used to that. I worked in nonprofits, you know, where you had to raise everything. Yeah, to figure out how to, you know, cross over into other agencies and use their resources to get things done in um healthy eating. I mean, it was an entrepreneurial and very familiar
1:03:12 Emma Grede? No doubt.
1:03:13 Speaker 01 Endeavor.
1:03:14 Emma Grede? Were you able to do forward planning? Like, could you look beyond the eight years and say, okay, here's what's gonna happen the minute I'm out of office?
1:03:21 Speaker 01 Well, that's where the initiatives came in, right? So with Let's Move, for example, we established a separate nonprofit organization, the Partnership for a Healthier America, knowing that there had to be a place for this work to go once we were out of the White House.
1:03:39 Emma Grede? Because it's that important.
1:03:41 Speaker 01 It's that important and it wasn't going to, it wasn't gonna be solved in eight years. And as we saw, once I got out of office and there wasn't a push, you know, food companies started reneging on what they were doing and things start to roll back.
1:03:57 Emma Grede? Start to unravel.
1:03:57 Speaker 01 Exactly. Um, the Partnership for a Healthier America is a separate nonprofit that exists today. I'm an honorary chair, but I don't run it um for our Girls Education Initiative. That's where the Girls Opportunity Alliance was developed because I knew that was gonna be work that was gonna, that would continue to happen in a nonprofit way. So my point being is that everything had to have a future.
1:04:23 Emma Grede? Yes.
1:04:23 Speaker 01 When we started it, right? Because it didn't feel to me Like it made sense to start an initiative on issues that couldn't be solved in one or two terms, which is no issue. There's nothing that you can work on.
1:04:37 Emma Grede? Absolutely not.
1:04:38 Speaker 01 On the planet, that's gonna be, which a lot of people don't understand, that's gonna be resolved in a presidential term.
1:04:43 Emma Grede? No.
1:04:44 Speaker 01 Or two.
1:04:44 Emma Grede? No.
1:04:45 Speaker 01 Change happens over generations, right? And that's also something, whether we like it or not.
1:04:51 Emma Grede? Whether we like it or not.
1:04:52 Speaker 01 You make a forward movement and then a step backward and then three steps forward and then 10 steps backwards and you're still moving forward, right? But it doesn't happen all under one, one president or one first lady, you know? So all my initiatives were like, yeah, we're gonna get this started, you know? But it's gotta be finished on the outside. You've gotta pass the baton where leadership comes in, right? Why do we have leadership? We need people we can pass the baton to. We can't keep doing this. We, you know, we get to an age where our voices aren't even connected with what's going on. I'm 61.
1:05:27 Emma Grede? Yeah.
1:05:28 Speaker 01 I'm not 40 something and it's okay that I don't know everything or don't understand. Pass the baton.
1:05:33 Emma Grede? Pass it, pass it over.
1:05:34 Speaker 01 To Emma.
1:05:35 Emma Grede? Let's go.
1:05:36 Speaker 01 It's your turn. You run, girl.
1:05:38 Emma Grede? I'm like, let me go, let me at him.
1:05:40 Speaker 01 You know, and so we, we don't wanna compete with young leaders.
1:05:45 Emma Grede? No.
1:05:45 Speaker 01 We wanna move out of the way.
1:05:47 Emma Grede? Enable them, absolutely.
1:05:47 Speaker 01 I wanna get out of the way.
1:05:48 Emma Grede? No, but you built this incredible foundation for so many people to be able to do this important work. Craig, I wanted to ask you, I wonder if there was ever a time, given Michelle's public prominence and, and what happened, because she's still your sister as all this is going on, was there ever a time that it impacted you personally or professionally? And just, you know, because I'm somebody who works with her husband and I've worked with my other family members in the past. Um, did you ever stir feelings of envy or jealousy? Did you ever have any of that?
1:06:22 Speaker 02 No, I thought you were going somewhere else with this question.
1:06:24 Emma Grede? Go on, answer that one then.
1:06:26 Speaker 02 No.
1:06:27 Emma Grede? Wherever the tea is, I'll take you.
1:06:30 Speaker 02 I never have a feeling of envy.
1:06:33 Emma Grede? Okay.
1:06:33 Speaker 02 Um, where I thought you were going with that was, was there ever a time where her success or their success bled into what I was doing in a negative way? And it was, it was all the time because half the people didn't like them.
1:06:54 Speaker 02 Right, which made them not like me, you know? And, and I will tell you an example how I knew this. I didn't really pay attention to this until I was on the plane with the athletic director at Colorado, which was another team in our league. I coached at Oregon State. And she said to me, she said, Craig, I don't know how you do it. She said, you were at, in our arena and I watched your every move. And every time you stood up to say something to the referees, our whole crowd focused on you. And I was like, yeah, I get it. I get it. It's, it's because of them.
1:07:39 Speaker 02 But most of the feedback because of them was positive. So I was never envious. Are you kidding? I was riding the wave. I was, I was proud.
1:07:52 Emma Grede? Yeah.
1:07:52 Speaker 02 Um, and they're such likable people, right? Um, I felt like you felt, like I felt like-
1:08:01 Emma Grede? Inspired.
1:08:02 Speaker 02 I was inspired and I knew firsthand that what they were doing was they were trying to do the best for the most people.
1:08:13 Emma Grede? Yes.
1:08:13 Speaker 02 Not the best for them.
1:08:15 Emma Grede? No, for the most people.
1:08:17 Speaker 02 Not just the best for our side, but the best for everybody. And that's just admirable. So no, I never, I never felt envious or jealous or, that's, that's an interesting question. I don't, I don't know if anybody's ever asked me that. I don't think anybody's-
1:08:33 Speaker 01 Well, because a lot of families, you know, with success-
1:08:35 Emma Grede? I mean, they do. They get envious, they get jealous, you know? One makes it, they have to feed everyone else. It starts to get difficult.
1:08:41 Speaker 02 Listen, I, and, and-
1:08:43 Emma Grede? Just saying that maybe that happens in some families.
1:08:45 Speaker 02 But you know, you know, we, we, we joke all the time. She grew up as Craig Robinson's little sister. And now I'm Michelle Obama's big brother.
1:08:54 Speaker 01 Payback. It's time.
1:08:55 Emma Grede? It's so true. It's time.
1:08:56 Speaker 02 It is complete payback, but I got the better of the deal.
1:09:01 Emma Grede? Facts. I'm just gonna say. You may have. Michelle, what I, I wanted to ask you, because I think this is so critical for this specific audience. So many women feel such unbelievable pressure at, at the time in your life when you were in the White House, in those years, when you are having to balance raising a young family. You know, being a wife to the leader of the free world, to, you know, your own, that, you know, your own career ambitions and all your own aspirations as well. And I, I wonder if there is like a critical and honest piece of advice that you can give or that you can share based on your own journey and what you would say to women that are trying
1:09:44 Emma Grede? to seemingly have it all, do it all, live to the fullest.
1:09:49 Speaker 01 All right. Well, I've said this a lot. It's impossible to have it all. So stop with that. First of all, you, you can have it all over a period of time. But this impatience and this feeling of like, I've got to be, I've got to have the exact job at the top of the game and I want to be the best mom to all, to the, you know, I want to be there, be at all the stuff and I want to look my best and be in my best shape and be emotionally in tune, la la la la la, and my marriage has got to be on point. Like it's, it doesn't, you can't do all of that. There are trade offs and it's okay.
1:10:32 Speaker 01 You know, if we're blessed and we can take care of ourselves emotionally and physically, life is long and you can have chapters and you, you don't lose out because you, you didn't read the whole book in one sitting. Each chapter can be really special. When my kids were little and I was sort of ready to drive in my career, but Barack was a state senator and then he ran for Congress and lost and then he was a US senator. He was away more than he was home. I got to a point where I said, I can't be in the highest driving point in my career life.
1:11:14 Speaker 01 I I just can't. So I left running a nonprofit that I enjoyed running. But running a nonprofit is an all consuming and it's the nonprofit didn't have a lot of money. And I needed flexibility.
1:11:26 Emma Grede? Did you do it happily? Or was there resentment there?
1:11:28 Speaker 01 There was a little resentment, but I was happy because I I love my girls and I love the time that I spent with them. And I felt more at at peace with that decision because it was the right thing for them and ultimately for me, because it gave me balance that I needed at that time. And I use myself as an example. I did that and it didn't stop my growth.
1:11:57 Emma Grede? No.
1:11:57 Speaker 01 It didn't, you know, I went on after that. I became an associate dean. I was the vice president and head of community outreach for the University of Chicago hospitals. As the girls grew and I felt more secure, I started re aligning myself.
1:12:14 Emma Grede? People don't realize they can take a little pause.
1:12:16 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:12:17 Emma Grede? Like, life doesn't really give you the feeling right now that you can just be like,
1:12:20 Speaker 01 That you can.
1:12:21 Emma Grede? Hold, please.
1:12:22 Speaker 01 That's right.
1:12:22 Emma Grede? For whatever reason.
1:12:23 Speaker 01 And you can, and you don't have to stop. Like, I didn't stop. I I thought about quitting completely.
1:12:29 Emma Grede? Mm hmm.
1:12:30 Speaker 01 And then I got an opportunity to get a a good job that I enjoyed in a flex situation. I negotiated flexibility for myself. I negotiated flexibility first that wasn't flexibility. It just was less pay. And I was irritated at that because I I I got half the salary and was still doing a full time job.
1:12:50 Emma Grede? The full job, yeah.
1:12:50 Speaker 01 So I learned from that. I was like, mm, never again.
1:12:52 Emma Grede? Yeah.
1:12:52 Speaker 01 I'm too much of a driver to ever get paid less, right? So the next job I was like, pay the full salary, but give me carte blanche over my schedule. I will get the job done, but I'm picking up my kids from school. I'm going to the Halloween parade and I might not be here on Friday,
1:13:10 Emma Grede? Mm hmm.
1:13:10 Speaker 01 but I'll be here when I need to be here. So pay me, right? I learned that, right? Um, so I would just say out there to women, it can come. And if you are choosing to drive, which that's that's a choice, um, then don't parent from guilt.
1:13:28 Emma Grede? Yeah, that's really important parenting advice.
1:13:31 Speaker 01 You know.
1:13:31 Emma Grede? I'm so interested in your parenting advice because between the two of you, there are six children. And, you know, I think so much about resilience and independence and, and, and what we want for our kids. What are those parenting principles that, again, looking back, that you go, this was so important that I did this?
1:13:51 Speaker 01 Yeah. I, I will start with not parenting from guilt.
1:13:56 Emma Grede? Cause they feel it. Your kids feel that.
1:13:58 Speaker 01 They feel, if they feel you weak.
1:14:00 Emma Grede? Yeah, they do.
1:14:01 Speaker 01 You know, I always say, kids have nothing to do but watch us.
1:14:05 Emma Grede? Yes, it's really, really, really true.
1:14:06 Speaker 01 They don't have jobs, they don't have responsibility. They figure, they are figuring. It's like, ooh, she, she breaks down when I do that.
1:14:13 Emma Grede? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:14:13 Speaker 01 And, ooh, they play, ooh, they don't work together on that issue. Let me manipulate that, right?
1:14:19 Speaker 02 I always say, don't let your kids outlast you. They're just kids. So you can, if they have questions, answer them until they have no more questions. Our parents were really good at that. And you don't have to give them sort of the college essay, but give them answers and, and keep them asking questions and just outlast them.
1:14:43 Speaker 01 And outlast them emotionally, too. Don't let your kid tantrum you into captivity. You know, I mean, you gotta, you know, if you're gonna be a busy parent, then you gotta have some backbone. You can't, you can't parent out of guilt. You can't give up on the, the foundation and the structure they need because you're not providing it every day. But that means you have to be more clear about it. You know, even with the girls in the White House, I mean, I could have felt so bad for them. I mean, they had Secret Service that they didn't, you know, they had to, they spent their childhood surrounded by men with guns. They were always out there in, in the wild, on their own, taking on incoming
1:15:25 Speaker 01 as little girls. But I couldn't, I was thinking about who I needed them to be when this was over. And it couldn't be some bratty kids who didn't know how to hear no. They lived in a house with a florist. And maids and cooks and chefs.
1:15:40 Emma Grede? Yeah.
1:15:42 Speaker 01 They could have, you know, they lived in a mu- a museum. You know, so I had to be, be like, who do I want them to be when this is over?
1:15:50 Emma Grede? But that is great advice, like thinking about who do you want your kids to be and not like parenting in the moment? Cause I feel like there is so much guilt and there's so much immediacy to how we make decisions now that sometimes you're like, how do I just make this thing better now as opposed to being like?
1:16:04 Speaker 01 Well, and then we give up. How do I, how do I appease them now so that they stop yelling, right? And the thing I've always thought about is how do I make them empathetic people? Who understand boundaries and have a work ethic? Which means that I had to create no's there. You know, the girls would tell me sometimes mom would just say no because. And I would because it's like there are no real no's when you live in the White House, right? So sometimes no would just no, just cause you need to know how to sit and no. Cause most of life is gonna be no. So you're gonna practice it. Can you do that? No. Why? They're doing it. Cause you need to know what no is. Now go sit in your room and think about why do you have to have it?
1:16:50 Speaker 01 Right? What is your why? Why can't you hear no? Um, and that hurts us, you know, punishments, you know?
1:16:59 Emma Grede? I feel like you're so.
1:17:00 Speaker 01 Sticking with punishments.
1:17:01 Emma Grede? You don't shy away from difficult conversations. Like are you like that everywhere in your life? Cause I think it's so important.
1:17:08 Speaker 01 Friend of mine would say, hell yeah. And sometimes it's exhausting.
1:17:14 Emma Grede? As the brother. Having difficult conversations, saying no, not people pleasing. How have you trained yourself to be like that? I mean, it's very clear that that's just who you are.
1:17:27 Speaker 01 Yeah, I, maybe you can, I just think it's.
1:17:30 Speaker 02 I think it's the way she was raised. My mom raised her to be tough. And my mom.
1:17:37 Emma Grede? So how do we make women tougher? Like how do we, how do we make ourselves more resilient?
1:17:41 Speaker 02 I don't know how to make them tougher because I think they're tough already, but.
1:17:45 Emma Grede? Well, you're in their family, that's why. But you know what I mean, right? You know, like, some people don't, they don't find it so easy to tell their kids no. They don't find it so easy to say, no, I don't want to do that. That's not gonna, I won't find enjoyment in that. You seem to have a very, like, you're at ease with saying, no, I don't want this. This isn't right to me.
1:18:08 Speaker 01 Well, it was practice. It's a muscle that you, you build over time. And I think part of it was, like, when you are raised as a poor black kid from a working class community, people will set their bar low for you. You know, they will just assume that you can or you don't. And I think there was a part of me that grew up as a fighter. Every time someone assumed, based on nothing that I demonstrated, that I shouldn't have this or couldn't do that. So, as I say, I have a I'll show you attitude, maybe because I'm the youngest sister. I was never treated like that in my household. My brother was always a, you're coming. My father was here, put on these boxing gloves.
1:18:50 Speaker 01 I think so in my home, I was a can-doer. But then when you get out in life and the first people you meet are like, I don't think you can read. It's like, why, why would you assume that I can't read? You know? What, what? So, that would make me angry, actually. And for some kids, that would make them feel defeated. So I think some of it is temperament. Some of it is that I had this really strong foundation of love, not just from my mother, but my father. And so I came back to a home that said, of course you can. Those people are crazy. Not everybody, not every girl has that. Not every young girl, as we see through our work at the Obama Presidential Center, there
1:19:33 Speaker 01 are millions of girls all over the world who are being told for no good reason that you can't, and you're not, and you'll never, but they're, they're still like me and like you, because you knew in your head, MO, when you were four, or five, or seven, what you were completely capable of.
1:19:50 Emma Grede? Oh, I know.
1:19:51 Speaker 01 And every girl knows that. And it's the world that. Turns us into mush. It's the world that makes us doubt ourselves. It's our societies that oppress us and make us feel anxious and small, right? And if you don't have a place that's lifting you up like I did, then you could just become smaller and smaller and smaller. And you doubt yourself and your voice gets miniscule and you're afraid of your own kids. Societally, we are in a position as women where that is the, that can be the norm unless there's something that breaks you out of that.
1:20:30 Emma Grede? Yes.
1:20:30 Speaker 01 And I think my something was this amazing foundation of yes, you can in my household and a temperament that went along with it. So I think I am inherently a fighter for myself and therefore a fighter for other people. So when I'm talking to my friends or, you know, any women, I'm like, hey,
1:20:53 Emma Grede? Come on.
1:20:54 Speaker 01 We can, why? Why can't, why are you, what is it? Why are you crying? What is this about? Let's get it together.
1:21:01 Emma Grede? Let's get it together.
1:21:02 Speaker 01 And with my girls, it's like, no, you can't have it. It's okay. You don't need to whine. You'll be okay. And I love you. It's like, I can say no to my girls because guess what?
1:21:13 Emma Grede? I really love you.
1:21:15 Speaker 01 Always here.
1:21:16 Emma Grede? Yes.
1:21:16 Speaker 01 And I know that. So I don't owe you anything. I am here for you. I love you. You know it. We're friends. You know, so I can, you can get some bad news from your mom.
1:21:27 Emma Grede? The bad news. You'll be fine.
1:21:28 Speaker 01 You'll be fine.
1:21:29 Emma Grede? What is the, what is the advice that you would wish that more young people had right now?
1:21:39 Speaker 01 That they have everything it takes. The advice for kids is like, if you have a voice in your head that says that there's something special in you, believe it.
1:21:52 Speaker 01 Believe that voice before it gets taken away from you. You know, believe the, the, the, the truth of who you were brought into this world as. Cause we, we all have that little voice. When we're very young, it starts early and you just wanna tell kids it's the other stuff that's wrong.
1:22:15 Emma Grede? Yes.
1:22:16 Speaker 01 The thing in you that is telling you, you know, better, you can do better, you deserve better. Believe that voice over everything else and go to the light. Find the voice that's telling you differently, you know, wherever it's coming from. If you're not getting it at home, go find it at school, go find it in the coach, find it in the gym. Go to church, seek the light, you know, don't let that darkness drown you out.
1:22:46 Emma Grede? That is fabulous advice. I've been thinking about it so much because we come from very different, but very similar places. And when, when you're from humble beginnings and you do a journey, you have a successful journey. There's an inevitability of having to leave something behind.
1:23:05 Speaker 01 Oh, God, yeah.
1:23:06 Emma Grede? Or some people behind, and it can be really, really heavy. And so I wonder if you've, how you guys have navigated, because you're both so incredibly successful. How have you navigated leaving people behind on the way or leaving where you're from behind?
1:23:22 Speaker 02 That's a good one.
1:23:24 Speaker 02 I would hope that we haven't left people behind, but um.
1:23:32 Speaker 02 I think the folks we've left behind are the folks we needed to leave behind. And we've kept the people who
1:23:41 Speaker 02 we want around us and who mean a lot to us, we've kept them around.
1:23:47 Speaker 02 And I think about, I think about Nish and Barack, every Thanksgiving, they invited our whole family to the White House for Thanksgiving. And so you only got left behind if you were supposed to be left behind.
1:24:05 Speaker 01 And there were some instances.
1:24:07 Emma Grede? There always are. I mean, there always are.
1:24:09 Speaker 01 But I have this conversation a lot with minority kids going to college in particular. Because that can be, not understanding the need to leave behind the people who need to be left behind gets a lot of young people in trouble. Not in trouble in, you know, legal ways. It's just, you know, we have kids who go to college and they take their student loan money and they're trying to pay their, the light bill at home, you know? They're grappling with survivor's remorse. And the thing that I remind them is that, you know, you got to put your oxygen mask on first.
1:24:48 Speaker 01 And it, and it's a long climb to get to a place where you can really, really help others. And if you stop too soon and try to help too early, you'll all fall, you know? And that's not leaving people behind. That's just being real about when you are really capable of helping anyone at all. And I tell folks, we were blessed, at least in our family. We didn't have people, my mother wouldn't accept stuff from us, you know? I mean, it wasn't until after we got out of the White House that we were in a position to buy my mom a safe place to live with a doorman
1:25:32 Speaker 01 and, you know, which she didn't understand she needed. You know, you're the former first grandmother. You can't just live on, in the hood, you know? But I say that to, to young people to say, that's how long it took. Before we really could afford to bring others along financially.
1:25:52 Emma Grede? Oh, yeah.
1:25:53 Speaker 01 Right? So it's just, I remind young people, you know, who don't come from a lot, that you probably can't afford to help everybody. Your real answer is probably, I can't help you yet. Because I don't have two feet on the ground. And when you don't come from a lot, a little bit looks like a lot. But it's still a little bit. So I just, you know, I try to remind young people, don't rush to be the savior until you're really, really solid. And that could take much longer than you think. And then, when you really get to a place where you're rock solid and you're taking care of your own business, your own debt,
1:26:35 Speaker 01 and you've got, and you have some leftover help then. But you can help with your-
1:26:42 Emma Grede? In other ways.
1:26:43 Speaker 01 With your time in other ways. There are other ways other than financial help and support. Mentoring, being there now for cousins. You know, we've set up scholarship funds for cousins and friends' kids and so on and so forth.
1:26:57 Emma Grede? Best thing in the world.
1:26:57 Speaker 01 But I'm 60. I couldn't have done it at your age. I couldn't have done it in my 30s. When some people, when I was a corporate lawyer and people would have started counting my, thinking, oh-
1:27:10 Emma Grede? Future checks.
1:27:11 Speaker 01 And it's like, no, I got lots of debt that I gotta pay off before I can help you with your mortgage, right? And that's, you know, learning how to say no, too. And no being a real no.
1:27:22 Emma Grede? And no being a real no. It's a lesson. Michelle, do you still believe when they go low, we go high?
1:27:30 Speaker 01 Yes, yes, I have to.
1:27:37 Emma Grede? Do you still believe it with the same conviction?
1:27:39 Speaker 01 Yes.
1:27:40 Emma Grede? Yes, yeah.
1:27:41 Speaker 01 Emma, yes.
1:27:42 Emma Grede? Okay, good, fine, because, you know, we're trying. Trying out here.
1:27:44 Speaker 01 We're trying, because guess what? Going high is a long term strategy. And it's the better way to show up in the world. Because when you don't, when you lead with fear and bitterness and exclusion, no one wins, you know? No one feels like they're winning right now, truly, you know?
1:28:09 Emma Grede? Amen.
1:28:10 Speaker 01 So, yeah, I still believe, you know? And it is a strategy. It's not, doesn't mean you don't emotionally feel low at times.
1:28:18 Emma Grede? No, we can feel low.
1:28:19 Speaker 01 You can feel it.
1:28:20 Emma Grede? But we're just gonna go.
1:28:20 Speaker 01 But when you show up in the world, show up high.
1:28:26 Speaker 01 That's, I still believe that.
1:28:27 Emma Grede? We shall continue. Okay, I'm gonna take you to rapid fire.
1:28:30 Speaker 02 Alrighty.
1:28:31 Emma Grede? What is the first thing you do when you wake up in the morning?
1:28:36 Speaker 01 I sadly check my phone.
1:28:39 Emma Grede? No, you do not.
1:28:40 Speaker 01 I have kids.
1:28:41 Emma Grede? Like, straight away?
1:28:42 Speaker 01 I do, I do. Because over the night, it's like, did somebody need something? Is everybody alive? So I do check my phone.
1:28:52 Emma Grede? Greg, what do you do?
1:28:53 Speaker 02 I play a variation of games because I'm on two text chains with people. I do Wordle, Connections, Strands, and Spelling Bee. And I also do four picks and one word.
1:29:09 Emma Grede? You are keeping that brain fired out here.
1:29:12 Speaker 02 Trying to keep my, my little pea brain fired up.
1:29:15 Emma Grede? Is it, is it the same before you go to bed? What's the last thing you do?
1:29:18 Speaker 02 No, no, no. Oh, the last thing I do before I go to bed is brush my teeth.
1:29:26 Speaker 01 He's so specific.
1:29:27 Emma Grede? No, I love the specificity.
1:29:28 Speaker 02 That's this rapid fire. What do you want to?
1:29:30 Emma Grede? Michelle's gonna say something more than Mantis.
1:29:32 Speaker 02 She can't do rapid fire. This is gonna be tortoise fire.
1:29:36 Emma Grede? I am, I am Michelle in a rapid fire, let me tell you.
1:29:40 Speaker 01 I kiss my husband goodnight.
1:29:41 Emma Grede? Oh.
1:29:45 Emma Grede? I love that so much. What are you currently both aspiring for in your business life?
1:29:52 Speaker 01 Oh.
1:29:56 Speaker 01 I'm aspiring that the initiatives that are business initiatives are successful and add value in a meaningful way. So, you know, we've started Plezi Nutrition and we want the drinks to be profitable, but we want them to deliver in terms of good quality, lower sugar.
1:30:20 Emma Grede? That's your initiative with them. That's your business with Steph Curry, right?
1:30:23 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah, we have our new hydration drink out and it's, you know, providing quality without the sugar because that's the point. Like, we can do both. We can do
1:30:34 Emma Grede? Yes, we can.
1:30:34 Speaker 01 well and we can do good.
1:30:36 Emma Grede? I am very into that for you.
1:30:38 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:30:38 Emma Grede? Do you care about money when it's those type of things? Sorry, I'm bad at rapid fire.
1:30:42 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah, see, see.
1:30:44 Emma Grede? Sorry, sorry, Greg. I'm bad at rapid fire.
1:30:46 Speaker 01 I still want to be, I'm internally competitive. I want the things I do to be successful. I think Barack is the same way. Steph and Ayesha are the same way.
1:30:55 Emma Grede? No doubt.
1:30:56 Speaker 01 We do it. We want to do it well. We want it to be successful and successful in a business setting is market share, right?
1:31:04 Emma Grede? Yes, it is.
1:31:05 Speaker 01 So, that's, yeah, it matters.
1:31:08 Emma Grede? It does. It matters.
1:31:09 Speaker 02 I'll, I'll team up with that one and say, to use one of your words, impactful. I want to be impactful. At this age, this stage of the game, want to be impactful and I want to make sure I'm developing the bench, the younger crew who's coming along. I want to leave some folks around who could take care of this place.
1:31:28 Emma Grede? And what are you aspiring for in your personal life?
1:31:33 Emma Grede? Rapid, rapid, rapid.
1:31:34 Speaker 02 Good health. Good health and to get these last two boys.
1:31:41 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah.
1:31:42 Speaker 02 Raised as well as we did the first two and they can be on their own.
1:31:48 Emma Grede? That's a big aspiration.
1:31:50 Speaker 02 I think my wife Kelly and I would agree on that one. Yeah, yeah.
1:31:54 Speaker 01 Personal for me, it's, uh, I am grasping for deeper, uh, mental and physical health, taking care of this vessel that I have.
1:32:10 Emma Grede? That's a great aspiration. It really is. What is a book that changed your life?
1:32:17 Speaker 02 Oh, I know this one. Firestarter by Stephen King. And the reason is, I had gotten through elementary school, high school and college without being a real reader. I read to pass tests. And that book turned me into an actual reader.
1:32:37 Emma Grede? Wow.
1:32:38 Speaker 02 And it happened in Stockport, England. Manchester, England. Because
1:32:44 Emma Grede? Of all the nice things you've read.
1:32:46 Speaker 02 The four channels that you had went off at 11 o'clock. So I had to do something and I and and my family bought me a bunch of books and they bought me one of them was Stephen King's Firestarter.
1:32:59 Emma Grede? That was that.
1:32:59 Speaker 02 I was hooked.
1:33:00 Emma Grede? I mean, good habit to get hooked on.
1:33:02 Speaker 02 Yes.
1:33:02 Emma Grede? Right?
1:33:03 Speaker 02 And it's it's one of the it's never too late to become a real reader.
1:33:09 Emma Grede? Yeah, I mean, I'm a lifelong reader. I'm extremely dyslexic, but for whatever reason, I could read big books from a very young age and always did.
1:33:18 Speaker 02 Yeah.
1:33:18 Emma Grede? Michelle, for you, books that changed your life?
1:33:21 Speaker 01 Song of Solomon by Toni Morrison. I read it every couple of years and, you know, she's one of my favorite authors and that book is deep and complex and the characters stay with you, so.
1:33:37 Emma Grede? What is something that you valued when you were starting out your career that you don't now?
1:33:45 Speaker 01 Pleasing others, I would say.
1:33:49 Speaker 02 Not letting money drive my decisions.
1:33:53 Emma Grede? That's a great one. That is a great one. All right, final question for both of you. What is something that you value now that you didn't back then?
1:34:03 Speaker 01 Hmm.
1:34:06 Speaker 01 Uh, freedom to do whatever I want. I mean, I guess because I didn't have that freedom. So now I have the true, true freedom now that my kids are raised and you're not, you're not there yet. And my big work is done, right?
1:34:28 Speaker 01 I feel like I, I've earned the right to do what I want. And now I have to figure out what that is completely, right?
1:34:36 Emma Grede? Yeah.
1:34:38 Speaker 02 I, on the other hand,
1:34:41 Speaker 02 was able to figure out what I wanted to do early and got a chance to do it.
1:34:50 Speaker 02 So I value now my free time.
1:34:57 Speaker 02 I didn't value, I didn't value it before.
1:35:01 Speaker 02 But I do now.
1:35:03 Emma Grede? Spoken like a true father of four.
1:35:05 Speaker 01 Yeah, really.
1:35:07 Emma Grede? You and me both.
1:35:08 Speaker 01 With two still, one still in middle school. Like, whoo, good luck.
1:35:13 Emma Grede? Good luck too, yeah.
1:35:14 Speaker 01 It's fun on this side.
1:35:15 Speaker 02 I could be like mom.
1:35:16 Speaker 01 It's good on this side.
1:35:17 Emma Grede? We're all waiting. Thank you both. You are amazing.
1:35:20 Speaker 01 Thank you.
1:35:20 Speaker 02 Oh, thank you.
1:35:21 Speaker 01 This was a lot of fun.
1:35:22 Speaker 02 This was great.
1:35:26 Emma Grede? If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click follow on your favorite listening platform. While you're there, give us a review and a five star rating and share an episode you loved with a friend. We'll be so grateful. Aspire with Emma Grede is presented by Odyssey. I'm your host, Emma Grede. Our executive producers are Corinne, Gilliard Fisher, Derek Brown, and me. Our executive producers from Odyssey are Maddie Sprung Kaiser, Leah Reese Dennis, Asha Saluja, and Jenna Weiss-Berman. Justine Dom is our senior producer. Our producer is Kristin Torres. Sound design and engineering by Bill Schultz. Angela Peluso is our booker. Original music by Charles Black. Video production by Evan Cox, Kirk Courtney, Andrew Steele, Carlos Delgado, and Arnie Agassi.
1:36:11 Emma Grede? Social media by Olivia Homan. Special thanks go to Brittany Smith, Sydney Ford, my teams at Jones Works and WNE, Maura Curran, Joseph
1:36:21 Emma Grede? Tina Francis, Hillary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson Rose, Tim McCall, Sean Cherry, and Lauren Vieira. If you have questions for me, you can DM me at aspirewithemagreed. Greed is spelled G-R-E-D-E. That's aspire, A-S-P-I-R-E, with emagreed. Or you can submit a question to me on my website, emagreed.me.
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