Pod Insights Stuff You Should Know SYSK’s Summer Movie Playlist: Some Movies That Changed Filmmaking About this episode An estimated 50,000 films were made worldwide in 2009 alone. Many are surely clunkers, but in this episode Chuck and Josh talk about the ones that emerged throughout cinema history to change the course of all movies that followed. Get your popcorn and lean back while you enjoy this classic episode.
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Transcript 11,777 words · 7 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Speaker 00 This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.
0:04 Josh Clark? Buy smart, drive for less and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability and it starts with a great deal on an off-road ready Tacoma or half ton Tundra, two of Toyota's longest lasting trucks, combining power for work, tech for adventures and style in between. And they're built on a reputation for quality and reliability, which is why Toyota trucks are known for holding their value, which could mean big savings when it's time for your next Toyota. So get a great deal today and a great value tomorrow. Shop toyota.com for more. Toyota, let's go places. Let's be real, eating is a huge part of our lives. It fuels us, it brings us together, and yes, it's one of life's great pleasures. But once a meal's over, we don't think much about what happens next unless something starts to feel off.
0:47 Josh Clark? Introducing Eating Interrupted, a new podcast from iHeart Ruby Studio, hosted by longtime journalist and Crohn's patient Cynthia McFadden. Listen in to unpack what it means when your body doesn't always respond to food the way you expect and what science is now revealing about why. Listen to Eating Interrupted on the iHeart app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey everybody, continuing the Stuff You Should Know Summer Movie Playlist, this episode from February 2015 focuses on some movies that changed filmmaking. From the very beginning of the film industry up to Star Wars and beyond, all these movies pushed the whole thing forward that much more and got us to where we are today.
1:28 Josh Clark? And as a bonus, Mystery Science Theater 3000 makes a nice little cameo in here. Enjoy.
1:37 Speaker 02 Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeart Radio.
1:46 Josh Clark? Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, AKA Siskel and Ebert.
1:54 Speaker 03 Save a C I L C.
1:56 Josh Clark? And Jerry's over there, I guess she's Jean Shalit.
2:02 Josh Clark? That's the Stuff You Should Know triumvirate.
2:06 Speaker 03 I don't know why that tickled me so much. Because Jeanne Shallit's a funny looking, I guess.
2:10 Josh Clark? Yeah.
2:10 Speaker 03 Jerry's not. I'm just picturing her with a big Afro and a mustache. And like a tweed jacket and bad opinions about movies.
2:18 Josh Clark? Jeanne Shallit had a look, for sure.
2:20 Speaker 03 Still, he's around, right?
2:22 Josh Clark? Oh, yeah, I think so.
2:24 Speaker 03 Yeah, RIP both Siskel and Ebert. So sad.
2:27 Josh Clark? I know.
2:29 Speaker 03 Have you seen the Roger Ebert documentary?
2:31 Josh Clark? No, I've heard nothing but good things.
2:33 Speaker 03 Really, really good. Very touching.
2:34 Josh Clark? Yeah. What is it, uh, something life?
2:38 Speaker 03 Life, uh, like mine, life with me, life on top.
2:43 Josh Clark? Life itself.
2:43 Speaker 03 Life with thumbs.
2:44 Josh Clark? Life itself.
2:45 Speaker 03 Life itself.
2:46 Josh Clark? Life with thumbs.
2:48 Speaker 03 It was really great. And I watched it on, I made the mistake of watching it on a plane and I was just like, my allergies are acting up.
2:54 Josh Clark? Oh, yeah.
2:55 Speaker 03 Oh, yeah, I was, I was watering.
2:57 Josh Clark? Because of your allergies?
2:58 Speaker 03 No, because I was sad. I was crying. Do you want me to say it?
3:02 Josh Clark? Oh, yeah.
3:02 Speaker 03 I was crying on a plane.
3:04 Josh Clark? I was confused there for a second.
3:06 Speaker 03 That's better than when I watch other movies that are on my laptop that are like, uh, have like bad violence or nudity or something. I'm always just like, oh, and I kind of lower the laptop and it's like, I didn't realize this was in here. And the lady next to me is just like, ugh.
3:21 Josh Clark? You disgust me.
3:22 Speaker 03 Yeah, because I don't, I want to be sensitive to people around me, you know? I'm not one of those jerks that's like, just lives in my own bubble. It's like watching some sex scene on a plane.
3:30 Josh Clark? You're like elbowing the lady next to you.
3:32 Speaker 03 Yeah. No, I hate it. It was so embarrassing. It happened to me a couple of times. I'm like, I needed to start going PG on movies.
3:39 Josh Clark? He just looked at her like.
3:40 Speaker 03 Airplanes.
3:40 Josh Clark? Judd Apatow, huh? Am I right? He's unpredictable.
3:44 Speaker 03 Yeah. All right.
3:47 Josh Clark? So Chuck, this is your episode to shine, man.
3:49 Speaker 03 Is it?
3:50 Josh Clark? Yes.
3:51 Speaker 03 You're a movie guy too, though.
3:52 Josh Clark? I like movies, but I've, I almost consciously don't let myself watch movies on a, like a film aficionado level.
4:01 Speaker 03 Oh, right. You're just pure enjoyment.
4:02 Josh Clark? Yeah, I don't ever want to see the individual shots and just be like, oh, well, that could have been better, whatever.
4:10 Speaker 03 Yeah.
4:11 Josh Clark? And, and just miss the movie as a whole.
4:14 Speaker 03 Yeah, I fall somewhere in the middle of that. I try to let go, but, um, like our, our video producer director, Casey, is, is pretty bad about that. And our buddy Scotty, who shot our TV show. Oh, he's the worst.
4:25 Josh Clark? Yeah.
4:26 Speaker 03 He's just, ugh, camera working, that lighting in that scene.
4:30 Josh Clark? Scott's awesome. Hey, Scott. Hey, Casey.
4:33 Speaker 03 They're all in here with us in spirit. And hey, this is the last show in this studio.
4:37 Josh Clark? Yeah.
4:37 Speaker 03 Last episode in the old office.
4:40 Josh Clark? Yep.
4:40 Speaker 03 The murder room.
4:41 Josh Clark? Couldn't feel more neutral about it.
4:43 Speaker 03 I actually feel less than neutral, less than zero.
4:47 Josh Clark? It's weird. That was a good movie.
4:49 Speaker 03 Thank you.
4:50 Josh Clark? Great shots.
4:51 Speaker 03 I say thank you as if I directed it.
4:52 Josh Clark? Right. I not only directed it, I also played Andrew McCarthy.
4:59 Speaker 03 Uh, yeah, I'm ready to get the heck out of here, man. Can't wait to get in that new office.
5:04 Josh Clark? Yeah, it's gonna be good.
5:05 Speaker 03 Tiny, little, dedicated studio.
5:06 Josh Clark? Whole new world.
5:08 Speaker 03 All right. Let's do this.
5:10 Josh Clark? Okay, so Chuck, films, you've seen one or two of them in your time.
5:13 Speaker 03 Sure.
5:14 Josh Clark? Have you seen any of the ones in this list? I know you've seen a few of them, but have you seen like some of the early ones?
5:19 Speaker 03 I've seen, well, we'll just go piece by piece because I have not seen Battleship Potemkin.
5:24 Josh Clark? Okay.
5:26 Speaker 03 But I do love Mandy Potemkin.
5:28 Josh Clark? It's a little different.
5:29 Speaker 03 Yes.
5:30 Josh Clark? In spelling, pronunciation, meaning, the whole thing.
5:32 Speaker 03 Uh huh.
5:34 Josh Clark? But it's close, I guess.
5:36 Speaker 03 But, we're talking, of course, about films that changed filmmaking. In some way or another. And the first one on the list is from 1925 Battleship Potemkin. That's hard for me to say.
5:47 Josh Clark? Which is not the first movie, by the way. The first screen movie was Workers Leaving the Lumiere Factory, which is 47 seconds long and the most boring piece of celluloid anyone's ever put together. But it was the first.
5:58 Speaker 03 That's right.
5:59 Josh Clark? This was many years. That was a full 30 years before Battleship Potemkin. By the time 30 years had passed, like, we were doing like narratives and there was banning and all sorts of great stuff.
6:10 Speaker 03 Yeah.
6:10 Josh Clark? And Battleship Potemkin fell under both of those umbrellas. It was a narrative story. It was a silent movie.
6:17 Speaker 03 That's right.
6:17 Josh Clark? But it told a pretty clear story and it was a bit of Russian propaganda as well.
6:21 Speaker 03 Yeah, it tells the story of a 1905 uprising and where there were Russian sailors. Basically, there was a mutiny aboard a ship. And then the bad guys, the Cossacks, came in looking for, uh... Revenge.
6:36 Josh Clark? Yeah, nineteen oh five, that would have been rising up against tyranny, would have been rising up against the Romanoff monarchy, I guess.
6:44 Speaker 03 Nice.
6:45 Josh Clark? But it was made in nineteen twenty-five, so this is a time when, you know, Lenin and Trotsky and all those dudes were running around trying to do the Great Experiment.
6:55 Speaker 03 Yeah.
6:56 Josh Clark? And it ends up, it turns out that the Battleship Potemkin was banned in some countries. Some countries are like, we don't want this Ruskie propaganda.
7:05 Speaker 03 Right.
7:06 Josh Clark? But Russia itself later on banned it when Stalin came to power because he was a self-aware dictator.
7:12 Speaker 03 Oh, was that the deal?
7:13 Josh Clark? Yeah.
7:13 Speaker 03 Okay.
7:14 Josh Clark? He knew this could be a metaphor for rising up against my dictatorship, so I'm going to just ban this movie.
7:21 Speaker 03 Oh, yeah.
7:22 Josh Clark? Even though it's Russian propaganda.
7:25 Speaker 03 Well, filmatically, I need to bring the history, by the way, filmatically speaking, it was a landmark film because of the montage, most notably the Russian or Soviet theory of montage, which is basically that your impact is going to come from juxtaposition of shots and not necessarily a smooth sequence of shots.
7:46 Josh Clark? Right.
7:48 Speaker 03 And it should be rhythmic instead of necessarily being tied to the story. It was like a rhythmic series of shots. And this one is popular. It was the Odessa step sequence is one of the five acts. And it is huge because it has been aped and mimicked and mocked and homaged probably more than, I don't know about more, but a lot of times in film history.
8:15 Josh Clark? Well, yeah, the montage, it's like a go-to editing technique, right?
8:20 Speaker 03 Oh, yeah. Well, the montage in general, but specifically the Odessa steps.
8:23 Josh Clark? Oh, okay.
8:24 Speaker 03 There are two notable parts in that sequence. One is the, you know, it's basically a big charge on these, these grand steps leading up to a building in a big battle.
8:32 Josh Clark? In Odessa?
8:34 Speaker 03 Odessa, Texas. And there's a part of it where there's the old, the old baby carriage going down the steps, you know, what's going to happen to the baby? And it sounds tired because we've seen that in, you know, The Untouchables.
8:48 Josh Clark? Yeah.
8:49 Speaker 03 Notably.
8:49 Josh Clark? I did not find it tiresome.
8:51 Speaker 03 Naked Gun, Thirty-Three and the Third.
8:54 Josh Clark? Yeah.
8:55 Speaker 03 Everything is Illuminated, the great movie by Liev Schreiber.
9:00 Speaker 03 That was from, directly from the Odessa step sequence in Battleship Potemkin. The baby carriage.
9:06 Josh Clark? Yeah.
9:07 Speaker 03 And the old, um, shot through, shot in the eye through the glasses.
9:11 Josh Clark? Oh, cool.
9:12 Speaker 03 That comes from this movie, too. They were the first ones to do it.
9:14 Josh Clark? Yeah.
9:15 Speaker 03 Um, and you've seen that in Woody Allen's Love and Death and Bananas, and of course, The Godfather. The great sequence where Moe Green's getting the massage and he looks up and puts on his glasses.
9:25 Josh Clark? During a montage.
9:26 Speaker 03 Yeah, that's exactly, that whole sequence.
9:28 Josh Clark? Assassination montage.
9:29 Speaker 03 Yeah, because there was, uh, an assassination on the steps as well.
9:32 Josh Clark? Oh, yes, that was definitely.
9:34 Speaker 03 It was a double.
9:34 Josh Clark? Who was that? That was, uh, Francis Ford Coppola?
9:37 Speaker 03 Oh, yeah.
9:37 Josh Clark? He, he was clearly aware of Battleship Potemkin.
9:40 Speaker 03 Clearly.
9:41 Josh Clark? I was trying to think of other examples of montages, and the only thing I could come up with was the A-Team building something. But that counts as a montage, right?
9:49 Speaker 03 Yeah, oh, yeah.
9:50 Josh Clark? It's like a, some related, in some way, related shots that are kind of put together that a little bit transcend, like, time and space.
9:59 Speaker 03 Tell a story in itself.
10:00 Josh Clark? Yeah.
10:00 Speaker 03 Like Rocky training for a fight.
10:02 Josh Clark? Yeah, that's another good one.
10:03 Speaker 03 A lot of times it's set to music. Yeah, I love that that's the only one you could think of.
10:07 Josh Clark? Yeah.
10:07 Speaker 03 And, uh, in the great movie Brazil, too, has the, uh, shot through the glasses bit, as I like to call it. So that's Battleship Potemkin.
10:14 Josh Clark? Doesn't one of the Nazis in Raiders of the Lost Ark get shot through the glasses?
10:19 Speaker 03 Maybe. That wouldn't surprise me. It's been, it's been oft homage, you know?
10:25 Josh Clark? Yep. So Battleship Potemkin was a, it made a pretty big splash in 1925. In 1926, the following year, the next movie on the list, um, I, it wasn't his first, but it really solidified, I think, his stardom. Buster Keaton's stardom.
10:41 Speaker 03 Yeah, the general.
10:42 Josh Clark? Rightfully so, too.
10:43 Speaker 03 Yeah, he was, uh, one of the great, um, well, some people call him the greatest stunt man to ever live.
10:50 Josh Clark? It, he's done some stuff that I think earns him that.
10:53 Speaker 03 Yeah, because this is back in the day, too, where he was legitimately risking his life.
10:57 Josh Clark? Right.
10:58 Speaker 03 You know?
10:58 Josh Clark? Like the, the, very famously where he's standing on the street in front of a house, and then the whole front of the house falls over him, and the window just goes right around him.
11:08 Speaker 03 Yeah.
11:08 Josh Clark? I watched that again today. It is. I can't believe he did that. There's actually a half of a second where his arm jerks up because he's startled as the house finally makes its way into his peripheral vision.
11:22 Speaker 03 Yeah.
11:23 Josh Clark? And it has to be one of the most dangerous things a human being's ever done on film.
11:28 Speaker 03 Oh, yeah. I'm sure the whole time before that was like, we did the math, right? He did the math.
11:34 Josh Clark? Do the math again.
11:34 Speaker 03 Do the math again. Show me the math.
11:36 Josh Clark? Right.
11:36 Speaker 03 Show me the math.
11:37 Josh Clark? Yeah.
11:38 Speaker 03 Because that's all it was. It was math and measurements.
11:40 Josh Clark? Right.
11:40 Speaker 03 But, uh, yeah, he could have been squashed and killed very easily.
11:43 Josh Clark? And he had a lot of faith in everybody who was pulling off the stunt with him, you know? He had to just stand there. That was his whole thing. He had to just stand there. And then his bit was that he was, he played it straight constantly. He was a stone-faced actor.
11:57 Speaker 03 Yeah, deadpan.
11:57 Josh Clark? Yeah.
11:58 Speaker 03 He kind of started that whole thing because his big, um, I was about to say rival, but I guess, um, just contemporary, Charlie Chaplin, while similar in some ways, was completely different because Chaplin was constantly mugging for the camera and like asking for the audience's sympathy.
12:14 Josh Clark? Right, raising his eyebrows or...
12:16 Speaker 03 Yeah, like, "Look what's happening to me. Come on, come on," whereas Buster Keaton would just, he had that deadpan look the whole time.
12:21 Josh Clark? Yeah, he would go from like a house falling around him to jumping on a train or something like that with just the same blank facial expression.
12:30 Speaker 03 Yeah, and the reason this is a highly influential film, The Generals, because it kind of showcases the best of both. The amazing stunts that would be mimicked throughout the years and built upon, and then the deadpan style that influenced everyone from, obviously, Bill Murray is one of the great deadpan actors of all time.
12:50 Josh Clark? Yeah.
12:51 Speaker 03 Like, you can count the number of times Bill Murray even smiles in a movie on like two hands.
12:56 Josh Clark? Sure.
12:57 Speaker 03 Much less like apes or laughs or anything.
12:59 Josh Clark? Michael Cera's mentioned in here, and I'm like, I think he might have Bill Murray beat as far as a deadpan actor goes, yeah.
13:06 Speaker 03 Well, Zach Galifianakis is on the list. He's super deadpan.
13:09 Josh Clark? Yeah.
13:10 Speaker 03 Um, Leslie Nielsen, of course, Amy Poehler, I think is a, is a woman that's a very deadpan.
13:16 Josh Clark? Yeah.
13:16 Speaker 03 Uh, has a deadpan style. Jason Schwartzman.
13:19 Josh Clark? Yes.
13:20 Speaker 03 But people say this is, this all is a direct descendant of Buster Keaton's work.
13:24 Josh Clark? Yeah, and if you think we're overstating this, go watch any Buster Keaton movie.
13:29 Speaker 03 Yeah.
13:29 Josh Clark? You will be thrilled and delighted. And if your attention span has been shredded to ribbons by the internet, just go onto YouTube and type in Buster Keaton and it'll bring up all sorts of, um, clips of his awesome stunts.
13:41 Speaker 03 It's pretty great.
13:42 Josh Clark? You will be thrilled and amazed, I promise.
13:44 Speaker 03 Yeah, and I think I made a note here, by the way, that we have a Fatty Arbuckle retraction to make. Uh, remember when we, we called him out as the rapist murderer?
13:53 Josh Clark? I didn't say murderer.
13:55 Speaker 03 Well, we said rapist at least.
13:56 Josh Clark? Right.
13:57 Speaker 03 But, uh, we were taken in task by a fan. He was, he had, he was acquitted of all that stuff. And apparently didn't do, uh, uh, either act. And, um, his career and life and family name were ruined forever.
14:09 Josh Clark? Huh.
14:09 Speaker 03 So he was, um, evidently done a grave misjustice. And we sort of cavalierly just, uh, still call him that today.
14:16 Josh Clark? Yeah, I need to look into it more.
14:18 Speaker 03 Uh, all right. So next up, we have The Jazz Singer, the 1927 edition.
14:23 Josh Clark? Not the Neil Diamond one?
14:24 Speaker 03 No, and there was one in between too, uh, with Danny Thomas.
14:27 Josh Clark? Oh, yeah?
14:27 Speaker 03 I believe. Um, I like Neil Diamonds. It's good.
14:32 Josh Clark? I never saw it.
14:33 Speaker 03 Did you ever see it?
14:33 Josh Clark? No.
14:34 Speaker 03 No, it's not bad. Um, but this is the original from Alan Crossland. And it is notable because it was the first feature-length, uh, movie that was at least 25% spoken dialogue.
14:51 Josh Clark? Right.
14:53 Speaker 03 Does that make sense?
14:53 Josh Clark? Yeah, it's totally new.
14:54 Speaker 03 Yeah, it wasn't, it wasn't the first talkie, because they had short films that were talkies.
14:58 Josh Clark? Right.
14:58 Speaker 03 And there was a movie the next year, I'm sorry, yeah, in 1928 called Lights of New York, that had 100% full spoken dialogue. But The Jazz Singer had a mix of music and spoken dialogue.
15:11 Josh Clark? Right.
15:11 Speaker 03 The first big, big daddy feature-length film to do so.
15:14 Josh Clark? Right, with substantial dialogue, right?
15:16 Speaker 03 Yeah.
15:16 Josh Clark? And they, they-
15:19 Josh Clark? Did it in the most roundabout, difficult way that you could possibly do it, which is to record the audio and the soundtrack, both the dialogue and the music, onto vinyl records.
15:31 Speaker 03 Yeah.
15:32 Josh Clark? Probably wax records, really. And then the projectionist had to sync the record up with the film strip. So everything was in sync.
15:41 Speaker 03 Yeah, it was a device called a Vitaphone that Warner Brothers sunk about half a million into. This company called Western Electric who invented it. And it was actually physically connected to the projector's motor. So while they did have to sync it, it was a physical connection between the phonograph player and the projection reel, I guess.
16:04 Josh Clark? Yeah.
16:05 Speaker 03 And it went on to gross three and a half million bucks for 1927.
16:08 Josh Clark? Man.
16:09 Speaker 03 Lot of dough.
16:10 Josh Clark? That's a ton of dough. That's like five, six million dollars today, at least.
16:15 Speaker 03 Yeah, at least. But was ineligible for the best picture because they were just like, you can't compete with the rest. It's not fair.
16:23 Josh Clark? Oh, wow.
16:24 Speaker 03 Because everything else is silent and everyone's going to vote for you.
16:27 Josh Clark? Yeah.
16:28 Speaker 03 So that changed the whole game, for sure.
16:30 Josh Clark? We will continue on with our awesome and engrossing list right after this.
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17:10 Josh Clark? Or discover Toyota's off-road lineup, including the iconic 4Runner and Land Cruiser, designed to go beyond the everyday. And with Toyota's proven reputation for quality and reliability, plus hybrid power on many models, you can get more for every mile and drive for less along the way.
17:26 Speaker 03 That's right. And long after you leave the lot, your Toyota keeps delivering with great resale value. So you could trade in for more when you're ready for your next Toyota. From a great deal today to a great value tomorrow, a Toyota is right for you. Shop toyota.com for deals and details, or stop by your local Toyota dealer today. Toyota, let's go places.
17:51 Josh Clark? Hey everybody. The best pieces in your closet are the ones you can count on. Whether you're heading to work, or going out, or keeping things casual. And this time of year, Quince makes finding something great for everyone else just as easy. This holiday season, it's where you want to shop for yourself and everyone on your list.
18:08 Speaker 03 That's right. And you know what? Quince focuses on high-quality staples made with premium materials like 100% Mongolian cashmere, 14-karat gold, and Italian leather. All timeless, versatile pieces that feel special to unwrap and become everyday favorites long after the holidays.
18:24 Josh Clark? Yeah, plus, everything at Quince is priced 50% to 80% less than similar brands. They work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen, so you can give luxury-quality pieces without the luxury price tag.
18:36 Speaker 03 So give the gift of quality this holiday season. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers, or go to quince.com, where you can get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK as well. And when Quince asks you where you heard about them, let them know it was Stuff You Should Know. It's the best way to support the show.
18:58 Speaker 04 First thought is like, wow, how are we going to do all this?
19:00 Josh Clark? Hey, this is Josh and Chuck from Stuff You Should Know.
19:03 Speaker 03 That's Alan Goya, planning engineer at AT&T, and he's talking about Intuit Dome, home of the Los Angeles Clippers, where every seat, screen, phone, and transaction is connected with AT&T fiber and 5G, redefining the fan's experience. And Alan's master plan made it all possible.
19:19 Speaker 04 It was going to rival anything that was already built. And that takes quite a bit of people and different teams to all be on the same page.
19:27 Josh Clark? That includes field services manager Drexel Jones. His team made sure it all came together and held up on game day.
19:33 Speaker 05 Through Alan's whole crew design, we connected the event visitors to the world.
19:39 Speaker 03 And after years of hard work and collaboration, it was opening night.
19:42 Speaker 05 To actually see the whole stadium light up and data's flowing is a beautiful thing.
19:47 Speaker 04 With the fan's experience, it's incredible. It gave me a lot of pride.
19:50 Josh Clark? AT&T, connecting fans to what they love.
19:54 Speaker 06 Connecting changes everything. AT&T.
20:08 Josh Clark? So Chuck, if you'll notice, the first three movies in our list, the first three films that changed everything, happened in 1925, 26, and 27.
20:18 Speaker 03 Things were changing fast.
20:19 Josh Clark? They really were. I mean, like, by leaps and bounds.
20:22 Speaker 03 Sure.
20:23 Josh Clark? But you can also make the case that there was a lot of new ground to cover. So just about anybody who did anything new that was noteworthy should make it.
20:31 Speaker 03 It was an innovation.
20:32 Josh Clark? Yeah, it was a big innovation.
20:33 Speaker 03 Yeah. Harder to innovate these days.
20:36 Josh Clark? It is. And if you'll notice, on the list, so the earliest ones were like, technical, editing innovations. Now, starting with Citizen Kane from 1941, we start to get into innovations in storytelling, which is a lot more nuanced than, you know, doing your own stunts, or using a montage or something. It's figuring out how to tell a story in a much less linear narrative fashion.
21:05 Speaker 03 Yeah.
21:06 Josh Clark? And Citizen Kane was one of the early ones to pioneer a nonlinear narrative.
21:10 Speaker 03 Yeah, did you, you saw this?
21:12 Josh Clark? Yeah.
21:12 Speaker 03 Yeah, okay. I didn't see it till, I mean, it was probably like, probably about 15 years ago. But like, way later than you would think I would have seen this.
21:22 Josh Clark? Yeah.
21:22 Speaker 03 As a big film buff.
21:23 Josh Clark? I saw it in college at a, in a film class.
21:27 Speaker 03 Yeah, sure.
21:28 Josh Clark? Yep.
21:30 Speaker 03 Yeah. If you sign up for a film class, you're gonna study Citizen Kane.
21:33 Josh Clark? Exactly.
21:34 Speaker 03 Pretty much.
21:35 Josh Clark? And I finally found out what Rosebud was.
21:38 Speaker 03 Don't ruin it.
21:39 Josh Clark? I won't.
21:40 Speaker 03 But it is a landmark film in every way, and it has often been top of best films of all time lists, for great reasons. One of which, like you said, the nonlinear narrative was a really unique thing at the time. Although flashback wasn't brand new, it was the first time it had been this extensive and effective in the story.
22:02 Josh Clark? Yeah, because I mean, it's substantial enough that it really cuts up the flow.
22:06 Speaker 03 Oh, yeah.
22:06 Josh Clark? You know, it's not like a quick flashback, and they come back, and the actor's like, staring off into space to transition back. Into the present again. I mean, like, it was all over the place.
22:16 Speaker 03 Yeah.
22:16 Josh Clark? You know?
22:17 Speaker 03 Uh, some of the more, um, concrete cinematic landmarks, uh, one was using deep focus. Director of photography Greg Tolan, legend, used, uh, he had used deep focus before on a movie called Long Voyage Home, but, um, it's all over the place in Citizen Kane. And that basically means if you see a shot where something, uh, very far away is in focus in the shot.
22:44 Josh Clark? Mm-hmm.
22:44 Speaker 03 Basically where everything's in focus.
22:46 Josh Clark? With the background and the foreground are in focus. So you can press pause and look around.
22:50 Speaker 03 Exactly.
22:51 Josh Clark? Like you're sticking your head into a box.
22:53 Speaker 03 Yeah, that's called deep focus.
22:54 Josh Clark? Yeah.
22:54 Speaker 03 And it was brand new, uh, as far as Citizen Kane, uh, goes, is how extensive it used it.
23:00 Josh Clark? Yeah.
23:00 Speaker 03 Uh, one of the other things was, um, off-center framing. Um, it was a big, you know, pretty common thing to just center whatever the main action was, either the, the character or the object.
23:12 Josh Clark? Mm-hmm.
23:12 Speaker 03 And, um, Citizen Kane had a lot of things where the main focus of the scene, the character, maybe even off-screen, uh, which was really weird at the time. People didn't know what to think of it.
23:22 Josh Clark? Right.
23:23 Speaker 03 Um, expressionistic lighting. Uh, back then, everything, they, they just lit it. They were like, make sure everything's well lit.
23:30 Josh Clark? Yeah.
23:31 Speaker 03 But-
23:31 Josh Clark? Wasn't Otto Preminger also like a big pioneer with that?
23:34 Speaker 03 Yeah, I think so.
23:35 Josh Clark? With, um, Dial M for Murder. I think he directed that.
23:40 Speaker 03 Was that Hitchcock? I think that was Hitchcock.
23:41 Josh Clark? Was it? Okay, well, Otto Preminger directed stuff like that though, right? He was, he used moody lighting and shadows and stuff a lot.
23:48 Speaker 03 I probably messed that up. People are gonna be-
23:50 Josh Clark? Dial M for Murder, I think it was Preminger.
23:53 Speaker 03 Okay. Um, but, uh, Orson Welles, of course, I don't think we even mentioned that, too, wrote, directed, starred and produced, and I think even edited Citizen Kane.
24:04 Josh Clark? Yeah, I just assumed everybody knew that, you know?
24:06 Speaker 03 Yeah. Um, he came from the theater where, uh, you create a mood with lighting, uh, only certain parts of the stage. So he brought that into the movies and, uh, it was very, um, evocative and set the mood well.
24:20 Josh Clark? Mm-hmm.
24:20 Speaker 03 And people are like, man, why are we lighting everything all bright all the time? Look at Citizen Kane. It really worked.
24:26 Josh Clark? Yeah.
24:27 Speaker 03 Um, a couple of other things, one of which I know you will appreciate, sir, is that he pretty much invented the wipe.
24:35 Josh Clark? Oh, The Star Wipe?
24:36 Speaker 03 Not The Star Wipe.
24:38 Josh Clark? But it followed.
24:39 Speaker 03 Yeah, The Star Wipe followed.
24:40 Josh Clark? Okay.
24:41 Speaker 03 Which I know is your favorite transition in cinema.
24:44 Josh Clark? Oh, it's awesome.
24:44 Speaker 03 The Star Wipe.
24:45 Josh Clark? Star Wipe, because it almost makes a boop sound, you know? By the way, I want to say, you're right, Dial M for Murder, it was Hitchcock.
24:53 Speaker 03 Oh, was it?
24:54 Josh Clark? Yeah.
24:54 Speaker 03 Oh, okay. What was Premature? Did you look that up?
24:57 Josh Clark? He did one called Laura, The Man With The Golden Arm. It's not who I'm thinking of. I'm thinking of a director named Otto, who directed in like the 20s or 30s, and he directed like moody, um, like, like moody movies, like
25:12 Speaker 03 Yeah.
25:12 Josh Clark? murder movies.
25:14 Speaker 03 Yeah, yeah, like Phil Noir?
25:15 Josh Clark? Yes, Phil Noir. That's exactly what I was going for. And I don't remember who it was.
25:20 Speaker 03 Maybe his name was Otto Phil Noir. He's French. Um, and then one final thing, of course, that you could study Citizen Kane for a week in a film class. So this is an overview, but, um, the low angle shots, um, people didn't use a lot of low or high angle shots back then. It was kind of just shot from straight on and, Orson Welles even dug out, uh, cut out the floor a lot of times to get the camera lower.
25:43 Josh Clark? Wow.
25:43 Speaker 03 And for the first time, we saw ceilings in view, uh, in a movie, because quite often, things were shot on a soundstage where you don't have ceilings. And, um, he wanted those low angle shots, so they used, um, fabric, uh, most times to act as a ceiling. But very effective shots of, from below of, uh, Orson Welles as, uh, I mean, it wasn't exactly William Randolph Hearst, but it was an approximation of William Randolph Hearst.
26:09 Josh Clark? Right.
26:10 Speaker 03 So very effective low angle stuff. That now, I mean, we take for granted all these things.
26:14 Josh Clark? Right.
26:16 Speaker 03 But, you know, there would be no pulp fiction in that, uh, nonlinear storytelling if there was no, well, maybe somebody would have done it, but.
26:24 Josh Clark? Maybe eventually, but, you know.
26:25 Speaker 03 He was the first.
26:25 Josh Clark? He did the first and, and I, that's why it was innovative.
26:29 Speaker 03 Exactly.
26:29 Josh Clark? It's Fritz Lang that I was.
26:31 Speaker 03 Yeah, there you go.
26:32 Josh Clark? Yeah.
26:32 Speaker 03 Fritz Lang, Metropolis.
26:34 Josh Clark? And M, just M.
26:36 Speaker 03 That's, okay.
26:37 Josh Clark? Yeah.
26:37 Speaker 03 It's all making sense now.
26:38 Josh Clark? I get confused.
26:40 Speaker 03 Yeah, but you were right on, you were right there.
26:42 Josh Clark? Fritz and Otto are not close. I mean, they're both German, but that's about it.
26:46 Speaker 03 Yeah, but do you know the difference between M and Dial M? Just a telephone.
26:52 Josh Clark? What's up next Chuck?
26:53 Speaker 03 Breathless, one of my faves.
26:55 Josh Clark? So I am going to rely on you mostly for this one because I looked up what the French New Wave really did, what it accounted for.
27:05 Speaker 03 Yeah.
27:06 Josh Clark? And like, all of the essays I found were hard to, they were dense.
27:11 Speaker 03 Yeah.
27:12 Josh Clark? And I didn't really understand. I understood that the French New Wave like changed everything.
27:16 Speaker 03 Yeah.
27:17 Josh Clark? And that a lot of the movies that I know and love today are the offspring of the French New Wave. But I still didn't get exactly, specifically, what the French New Wave did.
27:29 Speaker 03 And you're gonna rely on me to summarize this?
27:31 Josh Clark? Yeah, no pressure.
27:32 Speaker 03 No. Well, for me, the French New Wave basically ushered in an era of what now I think most people might associate with indie filmmaking.
27:43 Josh Clark? Okay, okay.
27:44 Speaker 03 Like handheld camera work and what some people at the time considered amateurish camera work. Movies where maybe not a lot seemingly happens, you know, nothing grand happens, which was the case in Breathless. A lot of people didn't like it at the time because it was like, you know, not much happens, you know, the two leads in the movie, Jean-Paul Belmondo and Gene Seberg weren't really like, didn't show, express a whole lot of deep love and there weren't these big moments of love and affection and these huge action sequences and it was described as flat by a lot of people. And I think a lot of indie movies do that, just kind of show life as it happens.
28:26 Josh Clark? Yeah, so without Breathless, who wouldn't have like Bottle Rocket?
28:30 Speaker 03 Maybe. Wes Anderson's definitely a big French New Wave guy.
28:33 Josh Clark? Yeah.
28:34 Speaker 03 For sure. But Godard, Jean-Luc Godard who directed it, and Truffaut and some other French New Wave forefathers were film critics at first.
28:46 Josh Clark? Oh yeah?
28:47 Speaker 03 Yeah, and they decided as a group like, we want to look at cinema in a new way.
28:53 Speaker 03 And do something different, so they went and started making their own movies.
28:56 Josh Clark? That's like James Fenimore Cooper.
28:59 Speaker 03 Oh, yeah?
28:59 Josh Clark? The guy who wrote Last of the Mohicans.
29:01 Speaker 03 Oh, really?
29:01 Josh Clark? Yeah, he apparently used to complain that like, nobody wrote good books anymore. And so, I think his wife or something said, "Well, why don't you do a big shot?" And he did. And the books he wrote weren't so great, but he went and wrote them. And he wrote a bunch of them, too.
29:17 Speaker 03 One of my favorite far sides ever is the second to the last of the Mohicans. It's just a line of Native Americans, and the second to the last one, they're on line facing away. He's just sort of turning around and waving at the camera.
29:30 Josh Clark? That is a good one.
29:30 Speaker 03 Or I guess the camera at Gary Larson's hand.
29:34 Speaker 03 So Breathless is notable for those reasons. It kind of kicked off the French New Wave. But the use of jump cut editing, which we see so much now. It was the first movie, and it was very jarring at the time to see jump cuts in a movie.
29:47 Josh Clark? Yeah, I'll bet.
29:48 Speaker 03 And that's when you're showing like, I guess the best way to describe it is multiple shots of the same
29:57 Speaker 03 subject or thing from different angles.
29:59 Josh Clark? Right, it's like you indicate the progression of time or movement or something by just cutting quickly. Rather than focusing on somebody walking down the street for five minutes.
30:10 Speaker 03 Yeah.
30:11 Josh Clark? You cut a couple of times, and all of a sudden they're just closer to the camera, and then closer and closer, and then they're past the camera. It's a jump cut.
30:17 Speaker 03 Yeah, or even something as simple as like, you're going to leave the house, so you go and pick up your keys, and you put on your coat. Instead of showing all that, you come out of the bedroom, boom, you're putting on your coat, boom, you're putting the keys in the door.
30:29 Josh Clark? Right, exactly. You're just showing the highlights of this progression of stuff where that would otherwise be boring to watch the whole thing. But it also is used to create tension, too.
30:40 Speaker 03 Yeah.
30:41 Josh Clark? Because it's jarring, I guess is probably why it creates tension. And Scorsese famously used it in Goodfellas.
30:48 Speaker 03 Oh, yes.
30:48 Josh Clark? At the end, when Henry Hill is like, trying to sell some guns to Nero. Yeah, he's coke to the gills, right? And he's like, trying to sell some guns to Nero, but they don't fit the silencers, and like, the helicopter's following him. He's got the sauce going. And all this stuff is being represented and compressed in a very short amount of time by the use of jump cuts.
31:11 Speaker 03 Yeah, very effective. And for budding filmmakers, it's a great way to hide mistakes.
31:18 Speaker 03 Of things you may not have gotten that you thought you got. Jump cutting is a really easy way to just sort of, yeah, to hide your errors.
31:27 Josh Clark? Yeah.
31:28 Speaker 03 I did it a lot, in other words, when I was making those shorts.
31:31 Josh Clark? I, um, I was, I realized that in my head I was referencing the, um, shot in Soul Taker. Have you ever seen that Mystery Science 3000 with?
31:41 Speaker 03 Uh-uh.
31:42 Josh Clark? It's, um, his last name is Estevez, it's Martin Sheen's brother.
31:45 Speaker 03 Uh-huh.
31:46 Josh Clark? And he is a Soul Taker and he's next to this guy who's a Soul Taker.
31:51 Speaker 03 Uh-huh.
31:52 Josh Clark? You just have to see this, but anyway, they're, they're walking down the road and this jump cut like has this progression of them.
31:58 Speaker 03 Right.
31:59 Josh Clark? It's so unnecessary, but it's like a great use of jump cut. You could tell the director was like, I can't wait to use a jump cut. And that's what she did. She used it on. But go watch that MSC 3K, it's a good one.
32:12 Speaker 03 Man, you've, did you see every single one of those episodes?
32:15 Josh Clark? No, I still, I still run across ones that I haven't seen, yeah.
32:19 Speaker 03 Nice.
32:22 Speaker 03 Hey, and a shout out to Bill Corbett, who I know is a listener.
32:25 Josh Clark? Oh, yeah, he is, isn't he?
32:26 Speaker 03 Yeah, I don't know if he's gonna hear this one, but, um, the great Bill Corbett.
32:29 Josh Clark? Soul Taker.
32:32 Speaker 03 Uh, next, we are gonna move on to Federico Fellini's Eight and a Half. You ever seen this one?
32:40 Josh Clark? No, I haven't. Now I understand why it's called that, though.
32:43 Speaker 03 Yeah, it was one of the first, although not the first, movies about movie making. And starring the great Marcello Mastriani, Mastriani, from La Dolce Vita. Uh, a muse of Fellini's over the years, too. And this one, um, this one really kicked off the surrealist filmmaking. And sort of saying, you can play around and shoot a dream sequence where the guy's in traffic. And then he leaves his car and floats up in the air and is, you know, being pulled down to the ground on the beach from a rope tied around his ankle. Just like, go nuts.
33:18 Josh Clark? Yeah, and successive filmmakers did go nuts. Like, um, Gondry did Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind.
33:25 Speaker 03 Oh, yeah, he's hugely influenced.
33:27 Josh Clark? Darren Aronofsky.
33:28 Speaker 03 Mm-hmm.
33:29 Josh Clark? Did some weird stuff here or there.
33:31 Speaker 03 Yeah, David Lynch and Terry Gilliam, of course.
33:33 Josh Clark? Yeah, just basically surrealism is what I'm taking Fellini introduced into this.
33:39 Speaker 03 Yeah, for real, and besides the surrealism, that opening sequence of Eight and a Half where the director, he's the director in the movie, Guido is stuck in traffic. It's really claustrophobic feeling and that's why he floats away and escapes, you know, that that traffic jam, but that was directly mimicked in like R E Ms, Everybody Hurts video.
34:02 Josh Clark? Oh, yeah.
34:03 Speaker 03 And the beginning of the movie Falling Down, do you remember that?
34:06 Josh Clark? Uh-huh.
34:07 Speaker 03 That started with the traffic jam.
34:08 Josh Clark? Yeah.
34:09 Speaker 03 Michael Douglas just left.
34:10 Josh Clark? He doesn't float. He gets like an Uzi.
34:12 Speaker 03 I saw that again the other day, most of it.
34:14 Josh Clark? Does it hold up?
34:16 Speaker 03 It's weird. It alternately felt way ahead of its time.
34:19 Josh Clark? Mm-hmm.
34:20 Speaker 03 And also very dated.
34:22 Josh Clark? Yeah.
34:23 Speaker 03 Because the stuff that Michael Douglas is doing felt way ahead of its time, but then there was, I just forgot about that whole weird subplots with Robert Duvall retiring and he had this wife that was henpecking him and like this retirement party they were trying to throw him.
34:41 Josh Clark? I forgot about that, too.
34:42 Speaker 03 Yeah, it was just so unnecessary and felt really weird and out of place the other day.
34:46 Josh Clark? Yeah.
34:46 Speaker 03 When I was watching it.
34:47 Josh Clark? Was there like a jump cut montage where he's putting on his watch, his gold retirement watch?
34:53 Speaker 03 No, but then too, the Barbara Hershey, you know, is in Venice at home with the daughter and he spends a whole day coming there to grab them, basically, and the whole time she just keeps calling the cops like, I know he's coming, I know he's coming. And I was watching the other day, I was like, freaking leave.
35:09 Josh Clark? Oh, yeah.
35:10 Speaker 03 What are you doing there?
35:11 Josh Clark? Yeah, that's a movie character thing.
35:14 Speaker 03 God.
35:15 Josh Clark? You know, that's just bad writing, bad directing. When you just walk right past the ability to leave, there's, you missed a huge step.
35:24 Speaker 03 Where were we, Falling Down?
35:25 Josh Clark? Yeah.
35:26 Speaker 03 I think that pretty much sums up Eight and a Half.
35:28 Josh Clark? I think so, too. Falling Down, boom. So Chuck, we got a little more left. We got more films. Is this making you want to watch films?
35:35 Speaker 03 Yeah.
35:35 Josh Clark? Me, too. I feel like eating ice cream, watching a film, and scratching from Poison Ivy lately.
35:42 Speaker 03 Yeah, and burning this office down.
35:45 Josh Clark? You know, if that happens now, suspicion's gonna fall on you for saying that.
35:48 Speaker 03 That's all right.
35:49 Josh Clark? Uh, we'll be right back after this.
36:03 Josh Clark? Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability. And it all starts with a great deal on a truck from your local Toyota dealer.
36:12 Speaker 03 That's right. Make a smart buy on the off-road ready Tacoma or half-ton Tundra, two of Toyota's most capable and longest-lasting trucks, built with the strength for the tough jobs, the tech to power your next big adventure, and the rugged style for everything in between.
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36:41 Speaker 03 That's right. And long after you leave the lot, your Toyota keeps delivering with great resale value. So you could trade in for more when you're ready for your next Toyota. From a great deal today to a great value tomorrow, a Toyota is right for you. Shop toyota.com for deals and details, or stop by your local Toyota dealer today. Toyota, let's go places.
37:06 Speaker 03 Hey, everybody. The holidays are coming up, so let us throw this out there. Are you prepared to host friends or family? Like, really prepared? Because there's a difference between having people stay at your house and properly hosting them.
37:17 Josh Clark? Yeah, that's what we thought. So maybe it's time for a little refresh. Well, we have a tip. For all things hosting, Wayfair delivers high-quality, customer-trusted products for your home so you can host and celebrate without the stress.
37:30 Speaker 03 That's right. Whether you're just swapping out a busted appliance or going all-in on a top-to-bottom home makeover for the holidays, Wayfair has you covered. Thousands of products, every style, every budget.
37:40 Josh Clark? And it's all built for real life. Every item is hand-vetted by specialists with a 10-point quality inspection. And on top of that, with over 20 million verified five-star reviews, you can have total confidence in all the picks you make.
37:52 Speaker 03 So remember, when refreshing your home this holiday season, Wayfair delivers exactly what you need. Just head to wayfair.com to shop all things home. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R dot com.
38:08 Josh Clark? Everyone has a story to tell. What's yours? The moment you met your partner, landed that promotion? For people living with a rare disease, life can feel divided into before the diagnosis and all the after moments that follow. On Voices of VivGart, VivGart is also known as its generic name, Fgartigimod Alpha F-Cab, you'll hear powerful stories from people facing challenges and embracing a life with a rare disease.
38:32 Speaker 03 Join host Andra Stratten as she guides listeners through honest conversations about life after diagnosis. You'll hear how each guest worked with her care team on their treatment plan, as well as their personal challenges, setbacks, progress, and moments of connection.
38:44 Josh Clark? These stories reveal that life is bigger than a moment, a condition, or a tough day. Listen to Voices of VivGart on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
39:09 Josh Clark? All right, so we're back with our awesome jingles, which, by the way, we have to thank John Begin.
39:16 Speaker 03 Yeah.
39:17 Josh Clark? John Begin.
39:19 Speaker 03 Begin to begin.
39:20 Josh Clark? He even emailed with the pronunciation of his name. But he, the original guy who did our jingle, the first jingle ever, Rusty Mattias, or Matthias. Man, I'm not good with the pronunciation. Well, anyway, Rusty, who's band The Sheepdogs, are on tour right now.
39:36 Speaker 03 Yeah.
39:37 Josh Clark? Just because his work was so original, we contacted him and said, hey, we've got this other guy who's done like covers of your work. Can we use these? He's like, totally.
39:46 Speaker 03 Mash it up, brother.
39:47 Josh Clark? And John's been making awesome like versions of it ever since.
39:51 Speaker 03 Yeah, they're both great and talented.
39:53 Josh Clark? Thanks to you both.
39:54 Speaker 03 And go check out, I think, what'd you say? They're on tour, right?
39:57 Josh Clark? Yeah, Sheepdogs.
39:58 Speaker 03 Yeah, go check out The Sheepdogs.
39:59 Josh Clark? Yeah.
40:00 Speaker 03 And in town near you.
40:01 Josh Clark? Yeah.
40:02 Speaker 03 All right, let's finish with these two in reverse order.
40:05 Josh Clark? Okay, Toy Story was a big one, hugely innovative.
40:09 Speaker 03 Big landmark film.
40:09 Josh Clark? Huge.
40:10 Speaker 03 Oh, yeah.
40:10 Josh Clark? And again, it's one of those things where now, almost everything about it seems pedestrian.
40:15 Speaker 03 Sure.
40:16 Josh Clark? Or what it did.
40:17 Speaker 03 Yeah, yeah.
40:17 Josh Clark? See, it's still a great movie, I'm sure.
40:19 Speaker 03 Oh, yeah.
40:19 Josh Clark? But the innovations that it undertook are, just seem pedestrian. But at the time, it was totally groundbreaking.
40:28 Speaker 03 Yeah, game changer.
40:28 Josh Clark? It was the first, um, the first CGI movie, all CGI movie ever.
40:33 Speaker 03 Yeah.
40:33 Josh Clark? That was enormous.
40:35 Speaker 03 Well, yeah, and I remember at the time seeing it and just being like, wow. This is the future of animated films.
40:43 Josh Clark? What's the best all CGI animated film you've ever seen visually?
40:47 Speaker 03 Uh, well, I haven't seen a lot of them these days, because Emily doesn't like those. So I probably wouldn't be the best person to ask. Holly from Stuff Mom, or Stuff You Missed in History Class.
40:58 Josh Clark? Yeah.
40:58 Speaker 03 She'd probably be the one to ask.
40:59 Josh Clark? For my money, have you seen The Adventures of Tintin?
41:03 Speaker 03 Oh, yeah, that was amazing.
41:05 Josh Clark? Mind blowing.
41:08 Speaker 03 Yeah, I saw that on your recommendation and really, really liked it.
41:10 Josh Clark? Yeah, the story was great, the action was great, the characters were great, but the CGI, the computer animation is, I think possibly the best ever done.
41:21 Speaker 03 Yeah, and that's a bit of a different style than, say, like Up or The Incredibles.
41:25 Josh Clark? It's not nearly as cartoonish, it's like the, what-
41:27 Speaker 03 I think it's the motion capture.
41:29 Josh Clark? Yeah.
41:30 Speaker 03 I think that's what they did for that.
41:31 Josh Clark? Oh, yeah, with Up, it would strictly be totally just animation, right?
41:34 Speaker 03 Yeah, but I mean, they're both animation.
41:36 Josh Clark? Right.
41:36 Speaker 03 Um, but yeah, man, Tintin, that was really good.
41:38 Josh Clark? It was good.
41:39 Speaker 03 I was surprised how much I liked that.
41:40 Josh Clark? But Up was good too, and Toy Story was good too, but all of these things came as a result of the ground that Toy Story broke.
41:47 Speaker 03 Absolutely. In 1995, um, like you said, what seems like a common thing today, I mean, you don't see cell animation anymore. It's almost-
41:56 Josh Clark? I know, I kind of miss it.
41:57 Speaker 03 I totally miss it.
41:58 Josh Clark? Like, the new Mickey Mouse is all weird and CG, like, stuff from our generation should have just been discontinued.
42:05 Speaker 03 Yeah.
42:06 Josh Clark? And then you just come up with all new stuff that's CGI. Strawberry Shortcake, not supposed to be CGI. It just all looks weird now.
42:14 Speaker 03 Yeah, I wish there would have, people would have done a little bit of both still. Because I think cell animation like, I think the Iron Giant came out after Toy Story and they did cell animation.
42:25 Josh Clark? Yeah.
42:25 Speaker 03 And that was great.
42:26 Josh Clark? Yeah.
42:26 Speaker 03 Great movie.
42:27 Josh Clark? I haven't seen that.
42:28 Speaker 03 Oh, it's really good. You'd like it. Like, it was a movie for grownups and Toy Story sort of laid the way for that because it was one of the first movies, I guess, cartoony kids movies to really have a lot of dialogue that flew over kids' heads that adults got a little nod and a wink.
42:45 Josh Clark? What, Toy Story?
42:46 Speaker 03 Yeah.
42:46 Josh Clark? Yeah.
42:47 Speaker 03 Not like dirty humor, but.
42:48 Josh Clark? It's not like Fritz the Cat.
42:49 Speaker 03 No, no, no, but a little entendre here and there that adults might appreciate that kids won't understand.
42:53 Josh Clark? Right.
42:54 Speaker 03 Those are the best jokes.
42:55 Josh Clark? Right.
42:59 Speaker 03 And now we have, you know, best animated feature in the Oscars, which definitely came straight out of the original Toy Story because movies started being considered before they created its own category. Up and Toy Story 3 were actually nominated for regular best picture.
43:16 Josh Clark? Yeah.
43:16 Speaker 03 And I think everyone was like, ooh, we need to get them in their own category because you can't have an animated movie when best picture came in.
43:22 Josh Clark? Well, Up would have come after the, the best animated picture category came out.
43:29 Speaker 03 Oh, really?
43:30 Josh Clark? So that kind of goes as a testament to just how amazing that movie is.
43:34 Speaker 03 Yeah, that's right. That was.
43:35 Josh Clark? That it was still up for best picture.
43:37 Speaker 03 Oh, it was both?
43:38 Josh Clark? I don't know if it was up for, it probably was up for best animated as well, but it was definitely also up for best picture.
43:44 Speaker 03 Oh, wow.
43:44 Josh Clark? While there was an animated category.
43:46 Speaker 03 Yeah, I never considered that.
43:48 Josh Clark? Bam.
43:48 Speaker 03 That was a good movie.
43:50 Josh Clark? Yeah, it was sweet.
43:52 Speaker 03 So I got nothing else on Toy Story.
43:54 Josh Clark? Well, then what about the last one?
43:57 Speaker 03 Yeah, 2001: A Space Odyssey.
43:59 Josh Clark? Man.
44:01 Speaker 03 Quite a film.
44:01 Josh Clark? You sent this essay on Criterion, I think Criterion.com, but you know, the Criterion Collection.
44:08 Speaker 03 Yeah.
44:09 Josh Clark? It was written, I guess, in 1988, even though it says posted in 1988. It's like, there wasn't an internet to post it on in 1988.
44:17 Speaker 03 Maybe it means posted like in the mail.
44:20 Josh Clark? Maybe. But I realized like I can read film essays about Stanley Kubrick's work all day long.
44:29 Speaker 03 Yeah, me too.
44:30 Josh Clark? Like, I love that documentary, Room 227.
44:34 Speaker 03 E, was it two, two, seven?
44:35 Josh Clark? Two, three, seven.
44:36 Speaker 03 Two, four, six?
44:37 Josh Clark? Two, three, s-
44:37 Speaker 03 Two, three, seven?
44:38 Josh Clark? Two, four, seven? You know, the one about the Shining conspiracy theories.
44:41 Speaker 03 Yeah, the, the number of the room is-
44:43 Josh Clark? Amazing.
44:43 Speaker 03 I can't remember, though.
44:44 Josh Clark? Um, I, I read a bunch of articles, I think two, thirty, seven. Um, I read a bunch of articles around the release of that documentary-
44:53 Speaker 03 Yeah.
44:53 Josh Clark? Which were basically like film essays on, on The Shining. I read this one amazing one, um, from several years ago about Eyes Wide Shut.
45:02 Speaker 03 Oh, yeah, me too.
45:03 Josh Clark? About how it's like a masterpiece of sociology.
45:06 Speaker 03 I love that movie.
45:06 Josh Clark? Like studying sociology.
45:07 Speaker 03 A lot of people hate that movie.
45:08 Josh Clark? Yeah. Um, and then now this, like two thousand and one. I'm sure there's tons out there to consume, but I, I can just read that stuff all day long. Cause that guy-
45:16 Speaker 03 Yeah.
45:17 Josh Clark? Was so just amazingly detailed as a director.
45:21 Speaker 03 Yeah, I agree. I can read more about his work, critical essays on his work than any other director.
45:27 Josh Clark? Right.
45:27 Speaker 03 It's just unbelievable.
45:28 Josh Clark? It's almost like it's its own genre.
45:30 Speaker 03 It is.
45:31 Josh Clark? You know?
45:31 Speaker 03 Kubrickian.
45:32 Josh Clark? Yeah.
45:32 Speaker 03 It's got a word named after it.
45:34 Josh Clark? And well, it should.
45:35 Speaker 03 Um, so two thousand and one, A Space Odyssey, nineteen sixty-eight. Um, blew minds back then, blows minds today. Uh, one for its, uh, just the amazing look and the technical achievement. Um, it, it ages really well. I mean, if you see a movie from nineteen sixty-eight about outer space-
45:53 Josh Clark? It still looks like the future.
45:54 Speaker 03 Yeah, you don't expect it to hold up well, but it totally does. Um, so much so that a lot of the, you know, George Lucas and Ridley Scott were just like, it's done.
46:03 Josh Clark? Right.
46:04 Speaker 03 Like, we might as well give up.
46:05 Josh Clark? Yeah, George Lucas, when Star Wars came out, said, "Star Wars is technically comparable, but for my money, two thousand and one is by far the better movie."
46:13 Speaker 03 Yeah, everyone was sort of intimidated, I think, by how talented Kubrick was.
46:17 Josh Clark? Well, plus also, um, you have to take into account that he made this movie at a time when other sci-fi movies were just pure schlock.
46:26 Speaker 03 Oh, yeah.
46:27 Josh Clark? So, not only to, to make the movie in this way, this visually amazing and, uh, amazing with an audio soundtrack and just totally innovative. It also took like that mindset-
46:41 Speaker 03 Yeah.
46:41 Josh Clark? To just completely go in a different direction that everybody else has as well.
46:45 Speaker 03 Yeah, of course. I think about Ridley Scott saying that, and then he goes on to make Alien and Blade Runner after that, so. I mean, he helped up his.
46:51 Josh Clark? And Prometheus, man.
46:53 Speaker 03 Yeah.
46:54 Josh Clark? People don't like Prometheus, I don't care. It's a cool movie.
46:57 Speaker 03 No, I liked it too.
46:59 Josh Clark? I thought, okay, one flaw, the big flaw to me was,
47:05 Josh Clark? and I'm sure it's like part of the subtext or the context or one of the texts, but the engineer coming back to life or coming out of hibernation after however long, and just immediately like inflicting violence on these pea-brained humans who are showing him no threat whatsoever.
47:25 Speaker 03 Yeah.
47:26 Josh Clark? I just thought it was a little,
47:30 Josh Clark? it wasn't explained well enough, I think, for my taste.
47:33 Speaker 03 Yeah, I think I agree with you.
47:34 Josh Clark? But when I'm watching a Ridley Scott movie, I just assume if I'm missing something, he has an explanation for it, I'm just not catching it.
47:42 Speaker 03 Yeah, I know what you mean. I'd like, I think I read some stuff about how it tied into the alien canon, and realized I need to go see it again with all this knowledge that I wasn't really thinking about.
47:55 Josh Clark? Yeah.
47:55 Speaker 03 And maybe I'd like it more.
47:56 Josh Clark? Yeah.
47:56 Speaker 03 But I haven't done that yet. So, back to 2001.
47:59 Josh Clark? Oh, yeah.
48:00 Speaker 03 It was also notable for being bookended, basically, with 30 minutes of silence on both ends of the movie. The first 30 minutes are, and when I say silent, I mean no dialogue.
48:11 Josh Clark? Right.
48:11 Speaker 03 And the last 30 minutes have no dialogue.
48:13 Josh Clark? Yeah, the last line comes like a full 30 minutes before the end.
48:16 Speaker 03 Yeah, and over the 146 minutes, there are only 40 minutes of dialogue and the whole thing. And that's why I just, when people compare something like Interstellar, and then call it Kubrickian, I just want to smash.
48:30 Josh Clark? Did you not like Interstellar?
48:33 Speaker 03 Not really.
48:34 Josh Clark? Oh, I liked it.
48:34 Speaker 03 I was super let down.
48:36 Josh Clark? Despite McConaughey doing Wooderson in the future, I still liked it. I even liked him in it.
48:43 Speaker 03 I liked a lot of the parts of it, but to me, it's anti-Kubrickian because every 10 minutes, they're explaining everything that's going on all over again.
48:53 Josh Clark? That was another thing.
48:54 Speaker 03 Just like Inception.
48:56 Josh Clark? Ellen Page's entire character was written in to explain what was going on every 10 minutes.
49:01 Speaker 03 Yeah, and I felt like Interstellar was the same way. It's like Christopher Nolan needs to just trust his audience a little bit, like Kubrick did. And say, figure it out or don't.
49:08 Josh Clark? Yeah, no, that's true.
49:09 Speaker 03 But I'm not gonna stop every 10 minutes just to explain everything.
49:13 Josh Clark? Yeah.
49:13 Speaker 03 Here's what's going on, remember? If you didn't get it right, here's what's going on again.
49:18 Josh Clark? Well, I think if they are labeling something like Interstellar as Kubrickian, right? One of the ways that you can interpret that is that he was, he rooted his 2001 in science fact.
49:32 Speaker 03 Yeah.
49:33 Josh Clark? Right? So like the stuff that the astronauts are like dealing with and the things that are going on and the conditions of space, it was all factual. Whereas with Interstellar, same thing. They went to really great lengths to do what they could to make
49:48 Speaker 03 Yeah.
49:48 Josh Clark? everything scientifically factual, aside from the fact that the idea that you could go into a black hole and then come back out or something like that.
49:56 Speaker 03 Sure.
49:56 Josh Clark? Drifting in space, that's not gonna happen. But for the most part, Interstellar was scientifically accurate. So maybe that's what they meant when they called it Kubrickian. Because you're absolutely right. Like, they did explain a lot and went to great lengths to explain a lot. Whereas with 2001, you just watch it the first five times, like, what just happened?
50:17 Speaker 03 Yeah.
50:17 Josh Clark? And apparently Cary Grant had that same reaction as well.
50:20 Speaker 03 That was Rock Hudson.
50:21 Josh Clark? Rock Hudson, that's right.
50:22 Speaker 03 Yeah, the original screening that Roger Ebert was at in LA. Rock Hudson just left and said, can somebody tell me what the hell that was about?
50:29 Josh Clark? Yeah, and it wasn't even over yet.
50:31 Speaker 03 Yeah.
50:31 Josh Clark? Yeah.
50:33 Speaker 03 Well, the reason it has science fact and not science fiction is because Kubrick and Arthur C. Clarke, who
50:41 Josh Clark? Oh, yeah.
50:42 Speaker 03 it wasn't actually a book that was made into a movie. It was a movie, a book made after a movie.
50:46 Josh Clark? Yeah.
50:46 Speaker 03 And they collaborated on both. And they went to Carl Sagan, of course, of Cosmos and said
50:55 Josh Clark? He said, you're gonna make billions and billions of jollies.
50:59 Speaker 03 That was pretty good.
51:00 Josh Clark? Was it?
51:00 Speaker 03 Yeah, that sounded a lot like him. They went to Carl Sagan and said, hey, we want to portray these extraterrestrials.
51:09 Speaker 03 Are they, maybe the star child is, or they turned Dave into the star child.
51:13 Josh Clark? Right.
51:14 Speaker 03 Are they humanoids? What are they gonna look like? And Sagan was like, they were very unlikely to be humanoid. So Kubrick did the smart thing and was just like, well, we just won't show them.
51:23 Josh Clark? Right.
51:23 Speaker 03 At all. Instead of making a fool of myself, like, signs, and making some dumb-looking alien.
51:29 Josh Clark? Oh, man. Man.
51:32 Speaker 03 Let me just not show the aliens. Very smart move.
51:35 Josh Clark? Yeah.
51:38 Speaker 03 Getting back to the story of 2001.
51:42 Josh Clark? Although, I think The Village is underrated.
51:46 Speaker 03 Yeah, I can stomach that one.
51:48 Josh Clark? What about, well, you like The Sixth Sense, right? Everybody liked The Sixth Sense.
51:52 Speaker 03 Sure.
51:52 Josh Clark? Uh, I guess that was it for him.
51:54 Speaker 03 I loved Unbreakable.
51:55 Josh Clark? Unbreakable?
51:56 Speaker 03 Yeah.
51:56 Josh Clark? That was one where like, yeah, I think it was maybe even better the second time.
52:01 Speaker 03 Yeah, I still like that movie. Uh, but he also made that Lady in the Water movie and the, the one with Marky Mark, uh, the people were jumping off-
52:11 Josh Clark? Four Brothers.
52:12 Speaker 03 No, Three Kings.
52:15 Josh Clark? Uh, is it the one in the elevator?
52:17 Speaker 03 No, he, he just produced that one.
52:19 Josh Clark? Oh, I know what you're talking about.
52:20 Speaker 03 The one where people are like jumping off of buildings and stuff?
52:22 Josh Clark? Inexplicably.
52:23 Speaker 03 Yeah, that, I didn't even-
52:25 Josh Clark? I didn't see that either.
52:26 Speaker 03 I couldn't get through 10 minutes of that movie. So, um, 2001, back to good movies, was, uh, had a three acts, three-part structure, but not a conventional three-act structure that you might be used to in movies, which is why it confounded people like Rock Hudson. Uh, the first, they called them movements. The first movement was the, uh, the Dawn of Man sequence with the, the, the apes with the, with the monolith.
52:51 Josh Clark? Mm-hmm.
52:52 Speaker 03 Um, and, uh, he has that great part where he throws his little bone tool up in the air.
52:57 Josh Clark? Right.
52:57 Speaker 03 And then it morphs into, well, not morphs, but it, uh, maybe it's a dissolve into the, um, spinning, uh, in outer space.
53:05 Josh Clark? It's called a match cut.
53:06 Speaker 03 Yeah, a match cut. And, um, of the rotation of what we now know was a nuclear warhead, uh, because I read that little article, 20 Things You Didn't Know About 2001.
53:17 Josh Clark? Mm-hmm.
53:17 Speaker 03 I didn't know those were nuclear warheads necessarily in outer space. They made it a little more vague and initially it was gonna be, uh, more explicit and they were gonna explode it in outer space.
53:27 Josh Clark? Right.
53:27 Speaker 03 But he said, no, it's a little too close to, uh-
53:30 Josh Clark? The ending of, um-
53:31 Speaker 03 Strange Love. Yeah, so let's not do that. Probably a good choice.
53:35 Josh Clark? Yeah, but some, as a result, some people have taken it to mean that like it was a, that match cut was supposed to show how far humans have come.
53:44 Speaker 03 Right.
53:44 Josh Clark? From using a bone to murder somebody to satellites in space. But if you know that the satellite is actually loaded down with nuclear warheads, that match cut demonstrates how little humans have changed.
53:57 Speaker 03 Oh, yeah.
53:58 Josh Clark? From using a bone to murder somebody to using satellites to murder somebody, the motif is still the same and it's murder.
54:05 Speaker 03 Yeah. He was going for some deep things.
54:07 Josh Clark? Oh, yeah.
54:08 Speaker 03 A lot of metaphor happening.
54:09 Josh Clark? Yeah. I mean supposedly in every single shot, because he started out as a still photographer, right?
54:14 Speaker 03 Oh, yeah.
54:14 Josh Clark? Supposedly every frame of a Kubrick movie, you, there is nothing that isn't unintentional in place there. By him, he did a lot of his own set decorating.
54:24 Speaker 03 Yeah, like the pencil holder on the desk in the office of the guy at The Shining Hotel.
54:29 Josh Clark? Right.
54:29 Speaker 03 Was where it's supposed to be.
54:30 Josh Clark? Right, and if like, if it has like a, the picture of a goat head inscribed on it, that means something.
54:36 Speaker 03 Right.
54:37 Josh Clark? It's not accidental.
54:38 Speaker 03 Yeah, although we'll say Room 237, which I think may have been the point, is a little bit like, these people are crazy. Not like, oh, man, I just see what they're saying and all this, they're right. I was just thinking, these people are nuts.
54:51 Josh Clark? Right, it's, it was just kind of enjoyable to hear their interpretations of it.
54:55 Speaker 03 Well, and I think it had, it was a comment on obsession and fandom, more so than The Shining.
55:01 Josh Clark? For sure, but there, I thought there, some of their ideas were interesting.
55:05 Speaker 03 Totally.
55:06 Josh Clark? I said Room 227, didn't I? Like one of the conspiracy theorists was like, Mary.
55:13 Speaker 03 Wasn't Room 227 like a sitcom?
55:15 Josh Clark? Yeah, it was just called 227.
55:17 Speaker 03 Okay, yeah, 227, gotcha.
55:18 Josh Clark? Remember with Jackie? She'd be like, Mary.
55:20 Speaker 03 Oh, okay.
55:22 Josh Clark? That's what my impression was. What'd you think I was doing?
55:24 Speaker 03 Well, I wasn't sure what you meant.
55:25 Josh Clark? Being a weirdo?
55:26 Speaker 03 Yeah.
55:27 Josh Clark? Yeah, okay.
55:28 Speaker 03 Uh, the second movement was of course the, the Hal sequence, the computer, the Hal, was it the Hal 9000?
55:35 Josh Clark? Yeah.
55:38 Speaker 03 Really creepy and Hal ended up being a lot of people's favorite character, even though it was just a voice, the supercomputer on the Discovery ship.
55:45 Josh Clark? Remember he's like, what are you doing, Dave?
55:47 Speaker 03 It's so creepy. I had the Mad Magazine spoof of 2001 when I was a kid, it was great.
55:52 Josh Clark? Yeah.
55:53 Speaker 03 Uh, and then the third movement is when Dave, uh, moves on to. The next stage of human development with these extraterrestrials that you only hear. And basically, it's when it comes full circle. The third movement.
56:10 Josh Clark? And the third movement is the one that has almost, well, it's really just the second movement that has dialogue.
56:17 Speaker 03 Yeah.
56:18 Josh Clark? Yeah.
56:19 Speaker 03 Some of the alternate titles for 2001, Journey Beyond the Stars.
56:23 Josh Clark? Terrible.
56:24 Speaker 03 Universe, not bad.
56:25 Josh Clark? Yeah, okay.
56:26 Speaker 03 Tunnel to the Stars.
56:28 Josh Clark? Not so great.
56:30 Speaker 03 Planet Fall. That sounds bad.
56:32 Josh Clark? Sounds like a James Bond movie.
56:34 Speaker 03 And then How the Solar System Was Won, as a play on how the West was won.
56:38 Josh Clark? Yeah, which like, movie geeks would find that appealing, but everybody else would say that's dumb. You ruined everything.
56:46 Speaker 03 Yeah, and Kubrick was, this is the last thing I have, he was so obsessive with protecting his material that he allegedly, I don't think allegedly, I think he did.
56:56 Josh Clark? Yeah.
56:57 Speaker 03 Have all the sets and props and miniatures destroyed after he shot it, so they would never be reused, which is a common thing at the time.
57:03 Josh Clark? Yeah.
57:04 Speaker 03 Like, hey, we're doing a space movie, go get that, go get that space ring from Stanley set.
57:09 Josh Clark? Yeah.
57:09 Speaker 03 Let's reuse it for Planet Fall.
57:12 Josh Clark? He, he also destroyed all of the footage that didn't make it into the original theatrical release.
57:19 Speaker 03 Yeah.
57:19 Josh Clark? Destroyed, it's gone.
57:21 Speaker 03 Yeah, so they wouldn't, one day after his death, recut it, which they invariably probably would have done.
57:26 Josh Clark? Yep, he's a smart man.
57:28 Speaker 03 Yeah, I could, we should just do a podcast on Kubrick.
57:31 Josh Clark? Okay.
57:32 Speaker 03 He was.
57:33 Josh Clark? I'm down for that challenge.
57:35 Speaker 03 A B A dude.
57:37 Josh Clark? Yes.
57:38 Speaker 03 One of my heroes.
57:39 Josh Clark? Yeah.
57:40 Speaker 03 Cinematically.
57:41 Josh Clark? You got anything else?
57:42 Speaker 03 I got nothing else.
57:43 Josh Clark? If you want to know more about movies, if you like this one, you probably also love our exploitation episode.
57:48 Speaker 03 Ooh, yeah.
57:49 Josh Clark? Exploitation movie episode.
57:50 Speaker 03 That was a fun one.
57:50 Josh Clark? What else have we talked about movies in? Cannonball Run?
57:54 Speaker 03 Oh, yeah.
57:55 Josh Clark? That had a lot to do with the movie.
57:56 Speaker 03 Yeah, our James Bond episode.
57:58 Josh Clark? Yeah.
57:59 Speaker 03 Uh, yeah, we've had a few of these and people always respond to these. They're like, you guys should have a spinoff.
58:03 Josh Clark? Yeah, do an all movie podcast.
58:05 Speaker 03 Sure.
58:05 Josh Clark? Maybe one day.
58:06 Speaker 03 Maybe.
58:07 Josh Clark? Remember, if you're looking for any of these, press Ctrl F or Apple F in your web browser and search that way on our podcast archive page. You can also search for this article on how stuff works by typing movies in and seeing what comes up. And since I said how stuff works, it's time for listener mail.
58:29 Speaker 03 Uh, I'm gonna call this Mike Dupont really clear something up for us on scientific method.
58:34 Josh Clark? Okay.
58:34 Speaker 03 Uh, hey, guys, it was a great, um, well, actually, he doesn't say it was great. I think I just made that up. Hey, guys, your scientific method podcast has a consistent misuse of what a scientific law is in relation to, uh, to the working of the scientific method. Uh, it appears that you believe that a law, E.G. Newton's law of gravity, is then held, uh, in higher esteem than theory, and that eventually a theory matures into a law. Um, I think I probably did think that because of politics.
59:00 Josh Clark? Right.
59:00 Speaker 03 You know?
59:01 Josh Clark? Yeah.
59:01 Speaker 03 How a bill becomes a law.
59:02 Josh Clark? Right, exactly.
59:03 Speaker 03 He says, when in fact, theory is considerably more robust than a law. Uh, a law is a mathematical model that describes observed behavior, does not answer the why.
59:12 Josh Clark? Right.
59:13 Speaker 03 Theory does, uh, answer why something happens.
59:16 Josh Clark? Did we not say that? I thought we did. Like, I, I knew that. I remember finding that out from the research. I just can't believe it didn't come out of my mouth.
59:24 Speaker 03 He claims we did not, and I feel like I'm learning this, so I definitely did not.
59:28 Josh Clark? Okay, go ahead.
59:29 Speaker 03 But you may have. Uh, for example, Newton's law of gravitational attraction describes the action of two bodies that can be used for pretty much everything. Um, it is perfect for describing what happens, but it cannot tell you why the two items are attracted or drill down to the underlying mechanism.
59:44 Josh Clark? Yeah, a law is like much more succinct. It just is what it is.
59:48 Speaker 03 Uh, nor is the law even universal and could not be used to explain the, uh, perihelion procession of Mercury's orbit.
59:57 Josh Clark? Burn.
59:58 Speaker 03 In comparison, Einstein's theory of general relativity was eventually used to solve the Mercury issue. Oh, yeah, the Mercury issue. Uh, and the standard model, along with the recent discovery of the Higgs boson by CERN, can answer the why do these two masses, uh, attracted to each other question. I think what you mean is why are these two masses attracted to one another? Mike?
1:00:21 Josh Clark? It's pretty teleological.
1:00:23 Speaker 03 Theory is considerably more developed and richer than a scientific law, which is more of a tool that is applicable to a wide range of applications. Keep up the good work. That is Mike Dupont.
1:00:32 Josh Clark? Thanks, Mike.
1:00:33 Speaker 03 Thanks for that.
1:00:34 Josh Clark? Of the Valley Forge Duponts?
1:00:36 Speaker 03 I think so.
1:00:37 Josh Clark? Huh. Have you seen Fox Catcher?
1:00:39 Speaker 03 Oh, no. I've heard it's good. Is it good?
1:00:42 Josh Clark? No.
1:00:43 Speaker 03 Oh, really?
1:00:43 Josh Clark? I don't think so, no.
1:00:45 Speaker 03 I've heard it's kind of slow.
1:00:46 Josh Clark? It's beyond slow.
1:00:47 Speaker 03 Really?
1:00:48 Josh Clark? Oh, yeah. I can understand why the Academy loved it, or...
1:00:55 Speaker 03 Sure.
1:00:55 Josh Clark? A lot of people, I'm sure, do like it. I was not a fan of Fox Catcher.
1:01:00 Speaker 03 I think people generally seeing like a turn by an actor like Steve Kerr doing something really different, they're knocked out by that.
1:01:06 Josh Clark? No.
1:01:07 Speaker 03 I still can't believe you didn't like Birdman.
1:01:09 Josh Clark? No.
1:01:09 Speaker 03 Spoiler alert for people who have not seen Birdman, the following conversation is full of spoilers.
1:01:14 Josh Clark? Yes.
1:01:15 Speaker 03 What didn't you like about it?
1:01:17 Josh Clark? Um, so I thought, I thought Michael Keaton was good.
1:01:21 Speaker 03 Okay.
1:01:24 Josh Clark? Who plays his daughter, Emily Blunt? Is that who that is?
1:01:27 Speaker 03 Emma Stone.
1:01:28 Josh Clark? Emma Stone. Excellent.
1:01:29 Speaker 03 Okay.
1:01:30 Josh Clark? Ed Norton even, pretty good.
1:01:32 Speaker 03 Okay, so the acting was fine?
1:01:34 Josh Clark? Who is, Naomi Watts was in it?
1:01:36 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:01:36 Josh Clark? She did great. Okay, so yes, the acting, the acting was fine.
1:01:40 Speaker 03 Sure.
1:01:40 Josh Clark? I thought the acting was fine. I thought the photography was amazing.
1:01:44 Speaker 03 Yeah, the whole seemingly one-take thing kind of knocked you out, probably?
1:01:49 Josh Clark? I didn't even pick up on that, but yes, it did. It was more the, for me, the juxtaposition of the story, which was pretty boring and realistic in everyday life, even though it was about a Broadway production, it was still about the everyday life of it.
1:02:07 Speaker 03 Sure.
1:02:08 Josh Clark? Against the surrealism that's like threaded and embedded in throughout the whole movie, I didn't like that.
1:02:15 Speaker 03 Okay.
1:02:15 Josh Clark? It was like, choose one or the other, man.
1:02:17 Speaker 03 Gotcha.
1:02:18 Josh Clark? It irked me. And, and then just that one part with the critic, where Michael Keaton tells off the critic, I thought Michael Keaton did a wonderful job.
1:02:27 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:02:28 Josh Clark? But just the whole point that it was in there of like the director... You know, using Michael Keaton's character to tell off all the critics he's ever wanted to tell off in his movie.
1:02:38 Speaker 03 Oh, gotcha.
1:02:39 Josh Clark? I just thought it was pretentious.
1:02:40 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:02:41 Josh Clark? And I thought it was kinda clumsy in that sense, too.
1:02:43 Speaker 03 Alright.
1:02:44 Josh Clark? And it was enough that it...
1:02:46 Speaker 03 Tainted it.
1:02:46 Josh Clark? Yeah.
1:02:47 Speaker 03 That's...
1:02:47 Josh Clark? And then the ending. I did not like the ending at all.
1:02:51 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:02:52 Josh Clark? At all.
1:02:54 Speaker 03 That'll ruin a good movie.
1:02:55 Josh Clark? Because it was... It completely went contrary to all the other stuff that he went out of his way to point out was fake or fraudulent or not real.
1:03:04 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:03:04 Josh Clark? And then all of a sudden it is? What?
1:03:07 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:03:08 Josh Clark? No, choose one or the other. The director refused to make very important decisions, and I think that that ruined the movie.
1:03:15 Speaker 03 That is a very well, uh, thought-out criticism, I think.
1:03:18 Josh Clark? Thank you. Thank you very much.
1:03:20 Speaker 03 Sure.
1:03:21 Josh Clark? Uh, man, that was the end of listener mail even, wasn't it?
1:03:25 Speaker 03 Yeah, because now I'm not like, geez, Josh is weird, he didn't like Birdman. Now I'm like, Josh didn't like Birdman, he has good reasons.
1:03:30 Josh Clark? Thank you, thank you. I like justifying my opinions.
1:03:34 Speaker 03 Don't we all?
1:03:36 Josh Clark? Uh, so if you wanna get in touch with Chuck and I, or Jerry, who I apparently just spoiled Birdman for, you can contact us via Twitter at @SYSKPodcast. You can join us on Facebook.com/StuffYouShouldKnow. You can send us an email, [email protected] . And as always, join us at our home on the web, stuffyoushouldknow.com.
1:03:59 Speaker 02 Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts, MyHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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Previous SYSK’s Summer Movie Playlist: How Stuntmen (and -women) Work Next SYSK’s Summer Movie Playlist: Special Effects: A Short History Page updated November 3, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated