How To Declutter Your Home: 5 Tips That Actually Work

If you find that the clutter keeps piling up, this episode will blow your mind. You’re going to learn a foolproof decluttering method that has transformed Mel’s home. The incredible Dana K. White, founder of the hit blog, A Slob Comes Clean, and author of How to Manage Your Home Without Losing Your Mind, is here to help you tackle your clutter and the overwhelm that comes with it. Today she shares a five-step process that’s revolutionized the way countless people manage their lives—and it’s not about buying more containers or wasting time making everything look perfect. This is decluttering like you’ve never heard it before, designed to make your life easier, your mind clearer, and your home more peaceful. This episode will give you the first step to finally feeling less underwater (no matter what your shelves, desk, or bathroom counter looks like right now!). This is an encore episode with new and exciting insights from Mel at the top. For more resources, including links to the studies mentioned in the episode, click here for the podcast episode page. If you liked this episode, which was packed with personal stories and open dialogue from Mel, you’ll love this one: How To Create Better Relationships: 6 Surprising Lessons From 28 Years Of Marriage Connect with Mel: Watch the episodes on YouTube Get Mel’s new book, The Let Them Theory Follow Mel on Instagram The Mel Robbins Podcast Instagram Mel's TikTok Sign up for Mel’s personal letter Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ on Apple Podcasts to listen to ad-free new episodes Disclaimer

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Mel Robbins?

  Hey, it's your friend Mel and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast.

• 0:08Mel Robbins?

  I have to tell you something you may not know about me. I am a slob. I mean, it's almost embarrassing and something I would rather not talk about, but the time has come for me and you to face this issue head on. If you have people coming over anytime soon and you would rather they not get past the welcome mat, or if you just have parts of your house, for me, it's like the bathroom drawers, or the laundry room that are hidden disasters, shut the door, Chris, you know, when the company's going, sit right next to me right now because you're not alone and you are in the right place. You and I have got to talk about clutter because clutter weighs you down mentally and physically. I mean, just think about it. When you walk into a room that's packed with stuff, or you open up a drawer and you can't find what you're looking for, your brain feels

• 0:51Mel Robbins?

  it. You may be in your car looking at old soda cups or tissues that are left from the day before this was me this morning. I had to find some in my car. I'm like, how long have those coffee cups been in the backseat? Or you may be in the house or office looking at a cluttered counter or kitchen, just take a second to notice. Isn't that clutter weighing you down?

• 1:11Mel Robbins?

  I'm here to tell you, it's not only weighing you down, it's holding you back. No, you do not need to buy more storage bins to hide the mess. You don't need to take a trip to the big store to get organized, or color code anything, start cleaning up your act. You can take back your home and your life with a few simple decluttering steps that actually work in real life for real people like you and me.

• 1:36Mel Robbins?

  This episode is brought to you by SoFi, the everything app for smarter money. Let me ask you something. Is your money working for you? Or is it just sitting there? A lot of us work hard, get paid, and then leave our paycheck in checking. That's an easy habit to change. With SoFi Checking and Savings, you can earn up to 3.8% savings APY for up to six months with no account fees and a cash bonus of up to $400 when you sign up with eligible direct deposit. Terms apply. It takes just minutes to open an account. From your phone and you can organize your savings into vaults for the goals you're working toward. Go to sofi.com/mal to get started. SoFi, get your money right. SoFi

• 2:20Mel Robbins?

  checking and savings is offered through SoFi Bank, N A, Member FDIC. To me, self-expression is all about showing the world what's on the inside. That's why I want you to discover Pandora Talsman, a new collection designed to help you express every side of who you are. Featuring meaningful Zodiac symbols and personalized jewelry pieces, each design tells a story that's uniquely yours. Pandora Talsman, a new language of self-expression, because every version of you deserves to be seen. Shop new styles in store or online at pandora.net. This podcast is brought to you by Expedia. If you haven't booked your next trip yet, now is the time. Whether you're going to fly across the country, or maybe you just

• 3:05Mel Robbins?

  want to explore a cool beach town this summer, Expedia makes it easy. Flights, hotels, vacation rentals, cars, activities, everything you need in one place. That means no jumping between sites, no hassle, and when you bundle, you can save up to 30% with everything you need in one app. Sign in to save savings vary. Expedia, the one place you go to go places. Hey, it's your friend Mel and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast. I am so excited that you're here. I just love this topic. I especially love this topic for right now, based on the fact that the holidays are coming up like a driver that is riding your rear end right now on the on your on your the back of the car, whatever the heck that's called.

• 3:49Mel Robbins?

  Well, first of all, I should probably start and say it's an honor to spend some time with you and to be together. And if you're brand new, welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast family. The fact that you hit play on this episode, it tells me something. It tells me you value your time and you hate the clutter, right? It tells me that you want simple ways to clean up your act. You'd like to be proud of your house. You'd like to be proud of your counters. I mean, wouldn't you like counters that are squeaky clean? I know I would. And I also know that you're interested in learning about ways that you can improve your life. And one of the simplest ways to improve your life, and this is actually really important, is to improve the space around you. Your environment matters. It like sends these cues to your eyes, to your nervous system.

• 4:34Mel Robbins?

  And the space around me in my home, in my studio and in my car. I mean, it could be described as, as I'm looking around, there are balloons in the corner in the office. There are stacks of let them books and manuscripts that are almost a year old lying around. There is a box sitting next to the printer that has some beige sweatshirt on top of it. I don't even, who the heck, the sweatshirt? There is a hairspray, but I, I'm embarrassed. Thank God I'm not on video right now. But here's the thing, you didn't tune in to hear about my clutter. You tuned in to hear how you can change your life by getting control of your clutter.

• 5:16Mel Robbins?

  Because mess isn't just physical. The mess around you creates a mess in your mind. Clutter in your physical space, whether it's clothes laying on the floor of your closet or piled on top of the laundry room, or it's, do you have one of those drawers? They're always in your bathroom where you go to pull it open and there's some tube of something in the back that you probably haven't seen in seven years that is poking up and jamming the door open. Like this stuff clutters your mind. And it makes it harder to focus and harder to feel more in control. Well, what if I told you there is a simple way to not only clean up your house before

• 5:58Mel Robbins?

  all your relatives come for the holidays, but to break free from this unnecessary overwhelm? Well, in today's conversation, you and I are going to flip the script on what decluttering really means. Because decluttering isn't really about tidying up your space. It's about unlocking a new way to feel clearer and peaceful and more in control of your life. And it doesn't require you to reorganize your closet.

• 6:30Mel Robbins?

  Or to get more storage bins, or to color code your bookcases, or to make your pantry look like it's an Instagram post. Our expert today is a woman named Dana K. White, and she is a hero to millions of people. Because she is going to show you how the act of getting rid of stuff is the key to decluttering your thoughts, reducing your stress, and making space for what truly matters. And what she said made me realize. She said, Mel, you have decluttering and organizing all wrong. See, for me personally, every time I would try to get organized, you know what I would do? Like, just think about times in your life where you're like,

• 7:15Mel Robbins?

  I gotta organize my closet. I gotta organize my desk space at home. Oh, I gotta organize my bedroom. I gotta organize the pantry. What do you do when you feel like I gotta organize things? You literally get in the car, or you get on the subway, and you go to a store, and you buy more things. Does that make sense? That in order to organize your things, you buy more things? And the reason why you're trying to organize your things is because you have too many things. In fact, I was on the road, because I've been on the road a lot promoting the Let Them Theory book. And do you ever have this feeling, like where you go on a trip, and you spend all this time packing, only to open up your suitcase, and you go, I hate everything that I packed. I literally packed for a week. And I packed exercise clothes, two pairs of jeans,

• 8:00Mel Robbins?

  three pairs of underwear. I'm gone for seven days. I don't know how the math works on that, Mel. Even if I turn them inside out, I'm not going to last seven days with three pairs of underwear. I didn't pack a bra. I packed two t-shirts. Like, that's what I took on a trip, you guys. And so I not only have too much stuff, I got the wrong stuff. Let me tell you what I used to do when I would come home after a trip, having packed all the wrong things. I still do that. That's the ADHD. But I'm going to tell you what I don't do anymore. So the old me, I would roll in from a trip. Does this ever happen to you? I don't know if I'm the only one that used to do this, but holy cow, this was like clockwork, what would happen. I would roll on in, and I would roll my suitcase into my bedroom,

• 8:45Mel Robbins?

  and would I put my clothes away? No, why would I want to do that? When I can crack my suitcase open, lay it on the floor, not even unpack it, and then walk into my closet and go... You know, I think I should organize this. I think right now, what I should do is I should organize my entire closet. What Dana White is gonna say is, "Get rid of things." And look, this is not gonna be an episode about hoarding. You don't have to pull up a dumpster into your front yard. You don't have to make 55 trips to the town dump. This is not what her philosophy is. You are going to love what Dana White is going to teach you. See, once I saw the difference between organizing,

• 9:29Mel Robbins?

  which is just making your crap look pretty, and actually, truly decluttering, it transformed how I manage my stuff.

• 9:41Mel Robbins?

  And it helped me let go of the overwhelm that I felt every time I walked into the mudroom, which was always a disaster, always. So was my bathroom, by the way. So were the kitchen counters. And I started to realize, wait a minute, decluttering, it's not about being perfect. It's not about the right storage solutions. It's about clearing space to create a calm, focused mind. I mean, this is a mind-blowing conversation. I remember when I first met Dana K. White, I could barely talk because my mouth was on the floor. I'm like, "I've never thought about my life this way. I've never thought about the things that I have this way."

• 10:27Mel Robbins?

  She made me realize how much time and energy I waste moving things that I don't even use from one place to another.

• 10:35Mel Robbins?

  It's like insane what you're about to learn. And I really want you to take a good, hard look in the mirror and truly be honest with yourself about your relationship with your stuff.

• 10:49Mel Robbins?

  Because you are about to meet a four-time bestselling author, including the bestselling book, Decluttering at the Speed of Life, by Dana K. White. Dana is a speaker. She is crazy viral on YouTube. She's the creator of the No Mess Decluttering Process. So she is going to walk you through her powerful decluttering approach that will help you finally get stuck. And I realize as I'm telling you these stories, you're like, well, clearly it didn't work, Mel. And I would say, after learning everything that you're about to learn, I went from a house where every room had clutter to a house where I would say 30% of the spaces have clutter,

• 11:33Mel Robbins?

  which is unbelievable. And more importantly, when I walk into the kitchen, which is kind of my safe space, that's where I like to see the clean counters. It's like, does anybody else feel like that's your domain? Don't screw with the kitchen. You can put your crap in another place, but don't walk in Christopher Robbins and put your cheese, your cheese, I meant your keys, your keys, and your water bottle in front of my beautiful black pots that I bought at an antique place, like one of those big, it's called, what is that thing called? It's in Brimfield, Brimfield. If all my antique and junk shoppers, you're going to know that Round Top is another one, big, kind of, you know, I'm so ADHD today.

• 12:17Mel Robbins?

  It's, I have clutter of the mind, everybody. But it drives me bananas because I have set up this counter where you walk into the kitchen and you see these beautiful three antique pots, and they're gorgeous, and they're under this nice painting, and it's beautiful part of the counter. He walks right in and puts his fricking keys and his fricking water bottle, and the mail, and the dog treats, and God knows what else right there. And I'm like, well, I don't do that anymore. I see it. I then clearly use the let them, let them, let them put their stuff there, even though I've asked 100 times for them not to do that. And then let me use Dana White's strategies. And let me...

• 13:03Mel Robbins?

  Use decluttering at the speed of life to create calmness and a sense of peace and to remove things in a very simple way without creating additional stress or additional piles. When she shares with you the tool, you're gonna be like, "Come on now." And I'm gonna tell you, it will change your life. It'll change your relationship with the people you live with. It'll, it'll open your eyes to the magnificent distinction between organization and decluttering. And so if you're feeling buried alive by the clutter,

• 13:45Mel Robbins?

  this conversation is exactly what you need right now. If you are bracing for the holidays because you have no idea how to pull the place together, or heck, maybe you haven't had friends over in years because you're embarrassed at the state of your apartment or your house, this is gonna change your life. And since I first released this conversation, it went crazy viral on YouTube. And so I thought, this is the perfect thing for me to give to you as a gift. And by the way, if you heard this like a year and a half ago, I'm gonna tell you something. You need to hear it again. You cannot hear this conversation enough. When I listened to it again recently, I'm like, "Oh, oh my gosh, this is incredible.

• 14:30Mel Robbins?

  This is absolutely incredible. Wow." And now I'm looking around at that beige sweatshirt, I know what to do with it. And that cardboard box, I know where to take it. Oh, and those balloons, I know exactly what to do with those too. And guess what? Bada bing bada boom. But I'm gonna clear out the space, which is gonna clear out my mind, and it's gonna take absolutely no time at all. I will not allow you to keep people from coming to your house or not crossing the threshold over your welcome mat because you're afraid of what they're gonna think about your mess. And I refuse to allow you to continue to beat yourself up over the state of things, or to continue to walk into your closet,

• 15:12Mel Robbins?

  or your kitchen, or your bedroom, or where your desk is at work, and throw your hands in the airs and just be like, "I'm never gonna get together." Yes, you are gonna get together. Yes, you can have a clutter free, I can't even say the word, it's so exciting. Yes, you can have a clutter free life. You can, and you will. Because Dana K. White is here to help you do that.

• 15:38Mel Robbins?

  Dana White, I'm so excited you're here.

• 15:41Speaker 01

  Thanks for having me on.

• 15:42Mel Robbins?

  Dana, when you've got a person like me, who's literally a disaster in certain places in our home, just overwhelmed by everything, where do we even start?

• 15:51Speaker 01

  I mean, it's, you're where you are. You have the makeup products all over the counter, and you think, "That, that's what I want. Those images on Instagram, and it looks like a magazine."

• 16:04Mel Robbins?

  Yes.

• 16:05Speaker 01

  Are we ready for me to tell you what the difference is?

• 16:08Mel Robbins?

  Yes. What is the difference between that perfection that I want and where I am right now?

• 16:15Speaker 01

  Here's the reality. Organizing and decluttering are separate things. They are not the same thing. But I always thought they were the same thing. I would look around at my mess, and I would think, "I have got to get organized."

• 16:25Mel Robbins?

  Yes.

• 16:26Speaker 01

  Because that logically makes sense, right?

• 16:27Mel Robbins?

  Yes.

• 16:28Speaker 01

  But the problem was, I would buy a bunch of products, bring them into my house, the organizing energy was gone by the time I got home, and I just dropped them by the back door, and they turned into more clutter, you know? So it never made a real impact on my house. I was at such a rock bottom point, that I, I honestly thought I was giving up by saying, "I don't even have it in me to get organized. I am just gonna declutter." Wow. Like, like, in my mind, I thought, "That's how bad I am. I've just got to declutter. I can't even think about organizing yet." Decluttering changed everything in my home. So, the beauty of realizing that organizing

• 17:11Speaker 01

  and decluttering are not the same thing, and that you can just declutter, and that just decluttering will change everything, it's just starting to get stuff out of your house.

• 17:21Mel Robbins?

  So are you saying, Dana, that as an organization expert, that in order to have a home, or a workspace, or any area of your life, feel manageable?

• 17:33Mel Robbins?

  Which would be the opposite of how I feel right now when I look at my bathroom sink or my closet, that you just got to forget about organizing because you're not ready to organize, that you need to first declutter. Is that what you're saying?

• 17:47Speaker 01

  Yes, you need to declutter. Decluttering is everything. When I decluttered, then I knew what I had. I knew where it was. I could get to it easily. I could access it easily because I'd gotten rid of all that extra stuff so that when I opened the cabinet, I just saw what I needed and I could get to it without moving 15 things. Decluttering made my house look better, function better, feel better. It was the thing I had been needing that I didn't know I needed. I thought I needed to get organized.

• 18:21Mel Robbins?

  So what is the difference between decluttering and organizing?

• 18:27Speaker 01

  In my mind, organizing was bins and boxes.

• 18:31Mel Robbins?

  Yes.

• 18:32Speaker 01

  And, uh, systems and all these things that I would look at those images on Instagram of the color-coded things and all that. You'd look at that and you think, that's it. I need the colors. And so you bring the colors in and then you're trying to fit all the stuff in there.

• 18:49Mel Robbins?

  I'm laughing because I thought the solution to my bathroom sink problem was to go to Walmart or Target and buy a bunch of bins to put all the stuff that's on my counter in. Why doesn't it work for me to go buy a bunch of containers for this stuff?

• 19:03Speaker 01

  Everyone has a clutter threshold. It's the amount of stuff that you personally can keep under control. It's the reason why you and your friend can go shopping together, buy the exact same things. She puts it in her house. It looks like a magazine. You put it in your house. It looks like a thrift store, right? Like that, that difference between like she can handle this stuff. I brought all this stuff into my house because I wanted it. I saw potential in it. I'm a lovely person who sees value in things that no one else sees value in, right? Like, that's a great quality, except that I was bringing it into my house and I couldn't handle it.

• 19:41Mel Robbins?

  Hmm.

• 19:42Speaker 01

  It was not possible for me to keep my house under control with the amount of stuff that I had in my house. So it's not, it's not aesthetics. Some people hear clutter threshold and like, oh yeah, this drives me. No, I'm talking about what can you handle? What's easy for you to keep under control? So if a space is continually getting out of control. Get rid of more stuff. Oh, it's still getting out of control? Get rid of more stuff. Get rid of... until you realize at some point, this is what happened to me as I was like, wait a minute, I can do this. Like, I can keep this under control. And that's where I realized there's this point, this level of stuff that I can handle.

• 20:18Mel Robbins?

  You are a genius. When I hear the word "organization," I think it looks pretty. I just have to get the bins that line up and the labeler that has the nice font and the little tags in my laundry room. And then I take all the shit that I have and I stack it all in there and then I make it look nice. I spend six hours in one space and I bought all the crap. The baskets match and it looks like a photo shoot and everything's in its place. You're right, I'm managing shit that I can't manage. Because the second that our son walks in the laundry room and pulls out the thing and puts it in a different place, then everything's out of whack again and I feel unorganized again and it all spills out from there.

• 21:02Mel Robbins?

  And then I go buy a different basket because it needs to be a bigger basket. I am driving myself and my husband crazy. How do you know what your clutter threshold is?

• 21:16Speaker 01

  I hate to tell you this.

• 21:18Mel Robbins?

  Uh-oh.

• 21:18Speaker 01

  But there is literally no way to know other than to declutter. You can just know if my house feels overwhelming, I'm over my clutter threshold. If my house is consistently getting out of control and I feel bewildered by that, then I'm over my clutter threshold. So the only way to find your clutter threshold is to declutter.

• 21:43Mel Robbins?

  I think I'm starting to get what you're saying. You're saying there is a critical difference between organizing your stuff versus decluttering. Organizing is just moving everything that you already have around to different places. And the problem is that you are organizing because you feel overwhelmed by your stuff. So no amount of baskets or containers will take that overwhelm away because you have too much stuff.

• 22:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:11Mel Robbins?

  The root problem is you have too many things, too many things on your desk, too many things in your closet, too many things in your mudroom. So you have to start with decluttering, which is a nice way to say, "It's time to get rid of a bunch of your stuff because it's all overwhelming you."

• 22:27Speaker 01

  Let me just say... The less stuff you have, the less stuff that can pile.

• 22:33Speaker 01

  Right?

• 22:33Mel Robbins?

  You are a genius. The less stuff you have, the less stuff that you compile. And the less piles that you have, the less overwhelmed you're going to feel. Here's what I also am starting to find really fascinating about your approach. Is that it makes sense when you look at the research about how our brains work. See, when there's too much input, too much going on in your family, or too many things on your desk or in your mudroom, your brain gets overloaded. It can't process all that stuff. And so what I'm realizing is the reason why we have this instinct to just organize it all and put it in baskets and make it look good and put colors and labels on it is because we're trying to make it

• 23:16Mel Robbins?

  less overwhelming to our brain. When actually, what we need to do is hit delete and remove a lot of the stuff that is overwhelming to us. But I'm still hung up on the containers. Maybe I've been brainwashed. Maybe I've watched too much HGTV. But I feel like this process is missing containers. So how do you handle the desire to either put things in piles or put things in containers?

• 23:46Speaker 01

  I used to think that containers were for putting things in. Right? Organized people love containers. They buy containers. Their house looks great. I must need more containers. And so I would bring containers into my house. So here's my little, my little scenario that I give. Let's say my friend, whose kids were the same age as mine, you know, her little craft area looked amazing. Mine was this huge pile disaster spilling out of the cabinet. Okay. And I would look and say, oh, she has her crayons in a red bucket.

• 24:17Mel Robbins?

  Yes.

• 24:18Speaker 01

  That's the difference between her and me.

• 24:20Mel Robbins?

  Yes.

• 24:20Speaker 01

  Right? Like she has a red bucket. I don't have a red bucket. That's why my space is a disaster. So I would go and buy a red bucket. And I would dump crayons in there. And I would realize, oh, I've still got 700 crayons left over. Why does this not work for me the way it works for her? So I would go out and buy two more red buckets and then I would put the rest of my crayons in those red buckets. I go to put the red buckets on the shelf and my shelf wouldn't fit three red buckets. And I would think, are you kidding me? Why is this so hard for me? Like, why does this not work for me? And then eventually I would be like, well, obviously I need more shelves. So I'd buy more shelves. And then at some point, I would think, well, I don't have any room for more shelves. Obviously, I need a new house.

• 25:05Speaker 01

  And we can't afford a new house right now. So I am doomed to be disorganized. That is just how my brain worked. I just thought that if I, you know, ran out of space in a container, I bought another container. And in reality, her house was smaller than mine. But in my mind, my issue was that my house was too small. Okay, right? Like, which doesn't make sense, but it made total sense to my brain before. So when I was working, I was talking to myself, and I was saying, container, and I went, container, contain, like, the word contain is in there. Serve as a limit, set a boundary, you know, like firefighters contain a fire, they create

• 25:46Speaker 01

  a boundary. And as long as the fire stays inside the boundary, they can keep it under control. Their whole goal is to keep it within this boundary. And I realized, oh, a container is not for putting things in. A container is meant to serve as a limit, to serve as a boundary.

• 26:05Mel Robbins?

  Wow.

• 26:05Speaker 01

  And that changed everything for me, because I was able to say, okay, here's the red bucket. It's not going to fit everything, but it's the boundary. So I'm going to put my favorite crayons in first. And when it's full, something happens in my brain and I realize, oh, maybe I don't need a thousand crayons. Oh, okay. Before, I would pick up every single crayon and be like, wow, I mean, I know it's broken.

• 26:37Speaker 01

  But broken crayons still color, right?

• 26:38Mel Robbins?

  Oh, yes, that's right.

• 26:40Speaker 01

  So I would make all these, and it took forever for me to analyze every single one. And instead, it's just, I'm going to put my favorite ones in first, and I'm going to let the container make the hard decision for me.

• 26:51Mel Robbins?

  Wow.

• 26:52Speaker 01

  And then when I go to put the, uh, the red bucket on the shelf, I have to acknowledge that the shelf is also a container. The shelf is a limit, and it determines how many red buckets I can have.

• 27:06Mel Robbins?

  Oh, my God.

• 27:06Speaker 01

  And the size of the room determines how many shelves I can have. And the size of my house is the size of my house. So I'm like, the size of my house is the size of my house. And if I'm going to put my favorite things in first, and I'm going to realize my house is a container, my house is a limit, what's my favorite thing in my house? It's the people who live in it, right? So like, we deserve space first. And so that just shifted everything. It actually doesn't matter how valuable something is, how much sentimental, you know, feelings I have toward it. It's, does it have space? I can keep anything, but I can't keep everything and my house ever have a chance of being under control. Okay?

• 27:50Mel Robbins?

  Wow.

• 27:52Speaker 01

  So that's the container concept, which changes how you look at your house and how you look at your stuff, and lets me let go of things, because I'm like, it's not me. It's the container. I don't have the space for it, and that is very freeing.

• 28:08Mel Robbins?

  Wow. That's obvious, but it makes so much sense. And more importantly, I feel like I can do it. Don't you feel like you can do it? Huh. Okay. Now, what I would love for you to do is, can you walk us through your five-step process that we go through when we declutter? And I want to get really granular. So let's take a quick break, hear a word from our sponsors, and when we come back, let's go step by step through the actual process you created. We'll be right back.

• 28:49Mel Robbins?

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• 29:29Mel Robbins?

  Shop now at ultrarunning.com and use code MEL10 for 10% off at checkout. And if you want even more savings and you've got an HSA or FSA account, you can use those pre-tax dollars on Ultra Shoes through TruMed. Just head to trumed.com/ultra to check your eligibility, and it may save you an average of 30%. TruMed is for qualified customers. HSA/FSA tax savings vary. Experience Ultra and stay out there at ultrarunning.com. That's A-L-T-R-A running.com. Here's the thing, when it comes to investing, who doesn't love having options? Some days, you might want a little more control. Hey, it's only human.

• 30:13Mel Robbins?

  And other times, you may want a teammate in your corner. Well, with Schwab, you get all the things, all in one place. Like self-directed investing when you're thinking, hey, I got this. Or full-service wealth management when you're like, you know what, maybe I need some help handling things. You also have investing, trading, college planning, and more. Whether you're mapping out long-term goals, building a diversified portfolio, or just getting started and learning the ropes, there's support when you need it and independence when you want it. Whatever the approach, Schwab can help you invest your way. Because if you're gonna do this whole money thing, you might as well choose a firm that lets you do it your way, right? Visit schwab.com to learn more. That's S-C-H-W-A-B dot

• 30:58Mel Robbins?

  Have you noticed that these days there's a holiday for everything? So Ollie went ahead and declared August National Dog Poop Month. Have you ever gone through a phase where you analyze your dog's poops? You know, that one looks healthy. Ooh, that one, not so much. If anyone gets being this invested in the quality of their dog's poop, it's Ollie. They deliver fresh, human-grade food that is gently cooked to maximize your dog's nutrition. In other words, they make sure your dog's poops are 10 out of 10 every time. Ollie's fresh recipes are developed by real chefs with gut-friendly ingredients that support better digestion, energy, skin health, and better poops. This summer, treat your pup to better food and perfect poops.

• 31:42Mel Robbins?

  Head to Ollie.com/Mell, tell them all about your dog, and use code MEL to get 70% off your welcome kit when you subscribe today. It's super easy and risk-free with their obsession guarantee. That's O-L-L-I-E.com/Mell and enter code MEL to get 70% off your first box. Ollie, feed the obsession. This podcast is brought to you by Expedia. If you haven't booked your next trip yet, now is the time. Whether you're going to fly across the country, or maybe you just want to explore a cool beach town this summer, Expedia makes it easy. Flights, hotels, vacation rentals, cars, activities, everything you need in one place. That means no jumping between sites, no hassle, and when you bundle, you can save

• 32:26Mel Robbins?

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• 32:40Mel Robbins?

  Welcome back. I'm Mel Robbins, and I'm here with Dana White, who wrote the life-changing book, How to Manage Your House Without Losing Your Mind: The Supplies to Home, Work, Everywhere That You Feel Overwhelmed. And she's about to walk us through her five-step process that she created for decluttering. All right, Dana, where do you start?

• 33:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, I recommend what I call the visibility roll. I recommend that you go to the place that visitors to your home will see when they either come inside or are standing at the door, and you're trying to keep them from coming inside, right? Because it's a mess, whatever. That is the place to start and we're going to go through the decluttering process there. I'll, I'll explain that. But the reason why you want to start in a visible space is that you will see the progress that you're making. You will see your house getting better. The people who live with you will start to see your house getting better. You'll experience that it is easier to live in a space with less stuff.

• 33:43Mel Robbins?

  Okay.

• 33:44Speaker 01

  Cause here's the thing, so many times when we get that desire to declutter, we go to the pantry. We go to the linen closet. We go to the top shelf of the master bedroom closet.

• 33:52Mel Robbins?

  Yes.

• 33:53Speaker 01

  We do those spaces because we think, okay, if I will work really hard on this, we really don't use this space that much. And so maybe it'll actually stay that way. Right?

• 34:03Mel Robbins?

  Yes.

• 34:03Speaker 01

  When in reality, you can work really hard on that. You talked about like, you know, all the color coding and blah, blah, blah, in this random closet. And then at the end of the day, your husband, you know, is like, so what'd you do today? And you're like, oh, I have been organizing all day and I don't know about you. I'm not going to project this on you, but in my experience, I've had that exact scenario happen. And my husband would be like, really? Okay. Well, what is more defeating than that? Right?

• 34:32Mel Robbins?

  Yes.

• 34:32Speaker 01

  Like is to feel like I have been organizing all day and I'm still embarrassed to open my front door.

• 34:39Mel Robbins?

  Yes.

• 34:39Speaker 01

  But if you work on visible spaces first, then you see the progress that you're making and you inspire yourself to keep going because you're like, oh, wow, that looks good. I may not have noticed when it was messy, but I notice now when it looks great. And then that inspires me to keep going. Okay. Do you want me to talk about the actual process?

• 35:01Mel Robbins?

  Yes.

• 35:02Speaker 01

  Okay. I know. See, I have to have like real steps because I have to remind myself still. I still look at a space and go, and I'm like, nope, I have steps. Okay. All right. So the first step is trash. Grab a black trash bag or whatever you have available. Ideally, it's black just because then you can't see what you just put inside of it. Your family can't see what you're putting inside of it.

• 35:25Mel Robbins?

  Can I just confess something?

• 35:27Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 35:30Mel Robbins?

  I'm almost embarrassed to tell you this. So Oakley, he's our 18 year old son, cleaned his room Sunday. Okay. And he put all kinds of clothes in a bag that no longer fit him so we could donate them. I spotted a flannel shirt that I paid a lot of money for. And I tore open the bag and I pulled it out of the bag just this morning.

• 35:57Speaker 01

  It happens, right?

• 35:58Mel Robbins?

  Yes. You know what I'm going to do with that? I'm going to hang it in my closet because I can wear it, but I don't even want it. What is wrong with me, Dana?

• 36:05Speaker 01

  Nothing's wrong with you. This is normal.

• 36:08Mel Robbins?

  So is that why you have a black bag? So you can't see the stuff that you're throwing out?

• 36:14Speaker 01

  Yes, that's exactly why. Now with that, if you're like, I don't have black trash bags, start with whatever. Start with a paper sack. It doesn't matter.

• 36:23Mel Robbins?

  Okay.

• 36:23Speaker 01

  But if you have a black trash bag, use that for exactly the reason that you're talking about. But I'm talking about trash, not necessarily donations at this point. The reason I start with trash is it is literally the easiest of the easy stuff. I am not talking about deciding whether this item is trash. I'm talking about just saying, that's trash, put it in the bag. That's trash, put it in the bag. It starts the movement.

• 36:47Mel Robbins?

  Okay.

• 36:47Speaker 01

  Like there are literally no decisions to be made, no emotions to be felt. It is just the action. And that immediately makes the space less overwhelming because there's less stuff in it than there was before.

• 37:01Mel Robbins?

  Okay.

• 37:01Speaker 01

  But it also helps my brain start to adjust to what's actually there. Because when I look at it as a big pile, the pile is overwhelming. There's important stuff in there, I'm sure. And so it feels like the whole pile is full of important decisions, difficult decisions to make. But as I'm looking for trash, I'm seeing what's actually there, which then helps me be ready to move into the next steps of the process.

• 37:28Mel Robbins?

  Okay, so we start with trash and a black bag and anything that is trash? Are we just talking papers and crap people have not thrown out and that kind of thing?

• 37:39Speaker 01

  If you have to think about it,

• 37:40Mel Robbins?

  Yes.

• 37:41Speaker 01

  skip it and we'll get to it in the next step.

• 37:43Mel Robbins?

  I love that you're breaking it down because this is like a real thing that we struggle with. Like I see a pile and you're right, I can become paralyzed because I think there might be something expensive or important in there. And so I don't know if I'm ready to sort through all that stuff. I just don't want to see the pile because I want it to be pretty.

• 38:02Speaker 01

  You're saying is I just want it to be pretty. Change your mindset to I'm going to make this space better.

• 38:09Speaker 01

  That means I can literally throw away two pieces of trash, get distracted, step away, step away because I'm just don't want to do this right now. And I've still made it better, which means I have been successful. Like if I do anything, I have achieved better. Okay. So, all right. Sorry. That was a little preachy break.

• 38:30Mel Robbins?

  No, I think it's, I think it's perfect because I don't feel successful in this area.

• 38:35Speaker 01

  But you are successful with every piece of trash. It is better because my goal is to have less in the space. If you have less in the space than you did when you started, you have successfully decluttered. You're not done, but you have successfully decluttered, right?

• 38:48Mel Robbins?

  Yep.

• 38:49Speaker 01

  Okay. So let's move to step two. Step two is the easy stuff. So trash was the easiest of the easy stuff because it's just going straight into the trash bag.

• 38:57Mel Robbins?

  Yep.

• 38:57Speaker 01

  But the second step is the easy step. Easy stuff I define as anything that already has an established home.

• 39:07Speaker 01

  It's just not there for whatever reason, like I'm not going to agonize over, why is this in the mudroom? It's just, oh, this goes in the kitchen or whatever. I'm going to take those things to their already established homes immediately. I can take as many as my hands will hold, but I can't take any more than that. Like I'm not going to put them in a box. I'm not going to set them aside and do it later. I'm going to go, everything that comes into my hands that I pick up, that I identified as easy, having an established home, no decision to make, no emotions to be felt. I am just going to go ahead and I'm going to take it there now. Okay. So again, I am making this space better.

• 39:49Speaker 01

  I can step away at any time because I'm making progress and only progress. Right?

• 39:53Mel Robbins?

  Got it.

• 39:54Speaker 01

  Then the third step is duh donations. Okay. When you are someone who hasn't felt successful at decluttering before, it feels like all decluttering decisions are going to be difficult. So we want to narrow down the ones that you really have to make decisions about.

• 40:09Mel Robbins?

  Okay.

• 40:09Speaker 01

  And go ahead and just stick stuff in the donate box. The key with the donate box, like the black trash bag, is that the box itself needs to be donateable. So don't stencil the word donate on the outside of a cute wooden box. Like, that's not what we're doing, right?

• 40:25Mel Robbins?

  Because that's organization.

• 40:27Speaker 01

  Right? And two, it just sets myself up to have to go back through that box again. Right?

• 40:35Mel Robbins?

  So you're basically just saying, no, have a box that's already going to get donated to.

• 40:40Speaker 01

  Right. The word donate so that you remember that was a donate box. But don't decorate it. Don't make it something you're going to want to reuse.

• 40:47Mel Robbins?

  Got it. Now, when you do this, do you recommend that you just take that box and just put it in the back of your car? Or do we leave it somewhere?

• 40:57Speaker 01

  I always have a donate box or two or three in a spot in our garage.

• 41:02Mel Robbins?

  Yep.

• 41:02Speaker 01

  That is ready to be taken wherever it needs to go. The, the decision making, though, is where the real power is.

• 41:11Mel Robbins?

  You just keep dropping grenades in my head. This is so good. I don't want to stop, but let's take a quick pause, listen to the sponsors, and we'll be right back with more amazing advice from Dana White.

• 41:29Mel Robbins?

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• 42:14Mel Robbins?

  And if you want even more savings and you've got an HSA or FSA account, you can use those pre-tax dollars on Ultra Shoes through TruMed. Just head to trumed.com/ultra to check your eligibility, and it may save you an average of 30%. TruMed is for qualified customers. HSA/FSA tax savings vary. Experience Ultra and stay out there at ultrarunning.com. That's A-L-T-R-A running.com. Here's the thing, when it comes to investing, who doesn't love having options? Some days, you might want a little more control. Hey, it's only human. And other times, you may want a teammate in your corner.

• 42:56Mel Robbins?

  Well, with Schwab, you get all the things, all in one place. Like self-directed investing when you're thinking, "Hey, I got this." Or full-service wealth management when you're like, "You know what? Maybe I need some help handling things." You also have investing, trading, college planning, and more. Whether you're mapping out long-term goals, building a diversified portfolio, or just getting started and learning the ropes, there's support when you need it and independence when you want it. Whatever the approach, Schwab can help you invest your way. Because if you're gonna do this whole money thing, you might as well choose a firm that lets you do it your way, right? Visit schwab.com to learn more. That's S-C-H-W-A-B dot com. This podcast is brought to you by Expedia.

• 43:40Mel Robbins?

  If you haven't booked your next trip yet, now is the time. Whether you're gonna fly across the country or maybe you just want to explore a cool beach town this summer, Expedia makes it easy. Flights, hotels, vacation rentals, cars, activities, everything you need in one place. That means no jumping between sites, no hassle, and when you bundle, you can save up to 30% with everything you need in one app. Sign in to save. Savings vary. Expedia, the one place you go to go places.

• 44:15Mel Robbins?

  Welcome back. I'm Mel Robbins and I am here with author Dana White, "How to Manage Your Home Without Losing Your Mind." And let's jump right back into it, Dana. What comes after donate?

• 44:26Speaker 01

  Okay, so at this point, we have removed trash, easy stuff, and obvious donations, right? So we are down to things that at first glance, you're like, either yes, they go here, or I have no idea on this item, what to do. Okay, so this is where my two decluttering questions come in. When I started this, I had seen lists, beautifully written lists, of all kinds of questions to ask yourself about items and whether you want to donate it or keep it. I had too much stuff in my house to ask myself 10 questions about everything.

• 45:03Mel Robbins?

  Yes.

• 45:04Speaker 01

  Besides, those questions generally let my brain spin out, right? Like, do I love it? Well, yeah, I love all this stuff. You know, like, why would I have it in my house if I didn't love it?

• 45:13Mel Robbins?

  Right.

• 45:13Speaker 01

  You know, so I couldn't ask myself those kinds of questions. So I came up with two questions, and if I can answer the first one, I don't even have to ask the second one. So the first question is, if I needed this item, where would I look for it first?

• 45:30Mel Robbins?

  Hmm.

• 45:31Speaker 01

  Okay. It's really important that you ask exactly that question. Where would I look for it first? It is an instinct question. Okay, the word would is the key word. That means if I needed my headphones, where would I look for them first? It is literally the first drawer or cabinet that I would open?

• 46:03Speaker 01

  Even if I had no confidence, they would be there.

• 46:06Mel Robbins?

  Got it.

• 46:06Speaker 01

  Because something, it needs a home, right? Like the whole, a place for everything and everything in its place that organized people say and think is so obvious. I was always like, what are y'all talking about? Like, I don't have places for things. Like, what? Like, it just didn't make any sense in my brain. And so I had to come up with, where would I look for it first? Because here's the thing. The beauty of putting something in the place where you would look for it first is that when you look for it, you find it in the first place where you look for it. Isn't that the goal that you've had all along, wanting to be organized?

• 46:40Mel Robbins?

  What I'm realizing my goal is, that I just want to look pretty. I've never even thought about organization as a way to make my life easier. And it's a genius question because I've put things in cabinets and drawers because I didn't know where else to put it.

• 46:57Speaker 01

  Yes. What I used to do was think about where my grandma kept hers.

• 47:02Mel Robbins?

  Yeah.

• 47:03Speaker 01

  And think, okay, well, she, her house was always great. So I should put mine in the place.

• 47:09Mel Robbins?

  Yeah.

• 47:09Speaker 01

  But how many people say, as a joke, or there's a Facebook meme or something that says, I got organized and now I can't find anything.

• 47:17Mel Robbins?

  Yes.

• 47:18Speaker 01

  Right? It's hard in the beginning because you don't trust yourself, right?

• 47:24Speaker 01

  And this also is part of that accepting how I actually function, as opposed to how organized people function and I wish I was like them. Fingernail clippers were the thing when I came up with this question. As I was like,

• 47:42Speaker 01

  everybody else in the whole wide world surely would put their fingernail clippers in the bathroom drawer. Because that's where they're supposed to go, right? But in my family, whenever somebody is looking for fingernail clippers, they look in this junk drawer that's like on the edge of the kitchen. That is just our reality. And I said, you know what? I would rather have things be in the first place where we look than

• 48:12Speaker 01

  try to be like other people and never be able to find anything in my house.

• 48:16Mel Robbins?

  That's amazing. See, I don't know where to put nail clippers, so I just look in Chris's top drawer of the bathroom, because that's right.

• 48:25Speaker 01

  That's great. If that's where you look first, that's where they should be. But then there's the second part of the question, which is not actually a question, but is actually the key to my no mess progress and only progress decluttering process.

• 48:38Mel Robbins?

  Okay.

• 48:39Speaker 01

  And that is, when you answer that question, where would I look for this first? Take it there now. No piles, because before I would step away for an hour or three weeks or whatever, and those neat little piles where I had totally made all these decisions, those neat little piles now morph into one big pile outside the space that I was initially decluttering. So my house looks worse than it did before.

• 49:07Mel Robbins?

  Yes.

• 49:08Speaker 01

  People get all worked up over this. Like, they are like, no, but that's can't be the most efficient way. And yet, in the end, it is. So here's the deal. I used to make all these piles. I would be like, okay, this is the stuff that goes to the kids' room. This goes to the garage.

• 49:28Mel Robbins?

  Yes.

• 49:29Speaker 01

  This goes to the bathroom.

• 49:30Mel Robbins?

  Yes.

• 49:31Speaker 01

  And when I'm done.

• 49:33Mel Robbins?

  Yes.

• 49:34Speaker 01

  I will go deliver all these things through the house, and that makes so much more sense than taking it there right now.

• 49:39Mel Robbins?

  Yes.

• 49:41Speaker 01

  But that's how things work in an ideal world where I don't get distracted in the midst of a project. I don't stop halfway through. Nobody starts bleeding, right? Like, I just, that's the ideal world. I don't live in an ideal world. Okay? So I decided I'm going to go ahead and take it there right now. No piles. When I do that...

• 50:08Speaker 01

  I can stop. I'm accepting the fact that I will get distracted or life will happen. I can stop at some point and the space is only better. It is never worse. I have never created a bigger mess. I'm taking one item at a time, making a final decision on it and I'm acting on that final decision. So it's either gone in the trash bag, it's gone to its already established home, it has gone in the donate box, or I have established a home by asking myself, where would I look for this first? And then I take it there now. Okay, so that's the key to all of this and people will resist it.

• 50:42Mel Robbins?

  Wow.

• 50:42Speaker 01

  And then I'll say, just try it. And then they will try it and then they will email me and say, I cannot believe the difference. I cannot believe I have actually made real progress decluttering for the first time in my life. It's working, like it's changing my house because of that. Go ahead and take it there right now. But people don't like it, but it's still.

• 51:03Mel Robbins?

  I think it's genius because I completely related to moving and sorting and organizing things into piles and then running out of energy or time or getting distracted and not actually taking those piles anywhere. And then you're right, and it makes it worse.

• 51:21Speaker 01

  Yes, you come back to the space and you have to make all those decisions again.

• 51:26Mel Robbins?

  Oh, my God. I feel like I do this every weekend.

• 51:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:30Mel Robbins?

  That every weekend, it is me on that hamster wheel of making piles and running things around and pulling apart stuff and holy smokes, this is revolutionary. I get very paralyzed when I have an item and I've spent a lot of money for it or somebody's given it to me or what, or I might need it some point 10 years from now. What's the difference between I'm throwing this out versus I'm donating?

• 51:59Speaker 01

  So all of those questions that you have in your mind.

• 52:02Mel Robbins?

  Yeah.

• 52:03Speaker 01

  Uh, those are the natural questions that people think they need to ask when they're decluttering. I don't ask those questions. I stick to the facts. Okay. And so my process leads me through and helps me make those decisions, but without all of the emotions. Because I brought all this stuff into my house because I saw the value in it. Right. And so before, when I would declutter, I would make value decision after value decision, which is exhausting, right? It's so emotionally exhausting, and I know it is, that then I would put off decluttering because I was like, I don't have it in me to make those kinds of decisions today. Right? Like, so instead, I say, okay, if I needed this item, where would I look for it first? And then I take it there now.

• 52:47Speaker 01

  And then I look at that space. And sometimes, this is a common question people have is like, what do I do when that space is its own big decluttered mess? All I'm gonna do is I'm gonna not leave that space any worse. And I'm gonna say, what am I willing to get rid of from this messy space where I would look for this item first?

• 53:08Mel Robbins?

  Mm hmm.

• 53:08Speaker 01

  What am I willing to get rid of from here that will create the space that I need for this item? And so it helps me, instead of saying, does this thing have value? I say, is there a space for it?

• 53:20Mel Robbins?

  Can I just give you an example? I'm starting to realize how nuts I am about this stuff.

• 53:28Speaker 01

  You are not nuts.

• 53:29Mel Robbins?

  I'm realizing how much noise and just how much drama I add to the process of organizing. And so I'll give you an example. I see this jacket and because I bought it for him when he was 15, Oakley literally wore it for about a minute before he grew out of it. And it was expensive. And so I see this jacket, I grab it, I'm like, okay.

• 53:58Mel Robbins?

  We live in Vermont, people visit. Should I hold on to this? In case somebody visits and they didn't pack a jacket? Maybe this would fit me and it would fit this? And then I attach all this meaning. And I create these stories about why I need to keep the thing and the value of the thing. And if I ask myself, if I needed this item, where would I look for it? I'm even stalled because I go, well, I don't really need it in the mudroom. Maybe I should create a place in the basement for extra clothes for guests who forgot. Clothes that you need when you visit Vermont. What is going on?

• 54:33Speaker 01

  Well, okay.

• 54:35Mel Robbins?

  Is this normal?

• 54:36Speaker 01

  What you just described, yes. What you just described is your brain spinning out.

• 54:39Mel Robbins?

  Yes.

• 54:40Speaker 01

  That is exactly how my brain worked. Everything you said made sense to me. I get it. Right? And yet, when I thought that way, my house was a disaster. And I was frustrated with it. And I had all those feelings of what is wrong with me?

• 54:57Mel Robbins?

  Yeah.

• 54:58Speaker 01

  Okay? So, I mean, I hate to just be like, let's go back to the process, except that...

• 55:03Mel Robbins?

  No, let's go back to the process.

• 55:05Speaker 01

  The process is what talks you through all of this.

• 55:08Mel Robbins?

  Okay.

• 55:09Speaker 01

  Okay? So, the second decluttering question that I only ask myself is my first response to, where would I look for this first? Whether it's about the jacket, whether it's about a stapler, whatever. If I look at the item and I'm like, where would I look for this first? And my answer is, uh, you know, like, okay? Then I ask myself the question, if I needed this item, would it ever occur to me that I already had one? Okay? We're not going to bring the scenario into it. We're just going to ask the fact-based question. If I needed this jacket?

• 55:54Speaker 01

  Would it occur to me that we already had one? And it's tough because you're holding it in your hand, right? Like it's there. It's in front of you. I had to make progress in my home. I had to get stuff out of my house. Right? So I had to make these hard calls and say, I'm going to be honest. If I needed this, would it occur to me that I already had one? Because I didn't have a place where I would look for it first, which means I would not have even gone looking for it. Instead, I would have done without. You know, we would have said, hey, here's six sweatshirts. Kid who forgot your coat, right?

• 56:31Mel Robbins?

  Yeah.

• 56:31Speaker 01

  Or, hey, let's run by the store and grab one. You know, or whatever. Those are both valid options. That right there is, is me saying, this is my reality check. I'm going to stick it in the donate box.

• 56:44Mel Robbins?

  Wow. You know, this is fascinating because it is a whole new way to think about this. The reality of the decluttering process, if I'm tracking, is not that you go, okay, this Sunday, I'm doing this in the mudroom. It's that you walk out of your bedroom, you're like, it's 7:15 in the morning. There's now a giant mess in front of me at the base of the stairs. And you're saying you can do this process right now. I see the jacket. It doesn't belong there. I have a choice in that moment to say, if I needed this item, where would I look for this first? And if the answer is the mudroom, I walk to the mudroom and hang it up.

• 57:26Mel Robbins?

  If the answer is, ooh, doesn't fit him anymore. Do we even need to keep it? And I go to the second question. What was the second question?

• 57:37Speaker 01

  If I needed this item, would it ever occur to me that I already had one?

• 57:41Mel Robbins?

  If I needed this item, would it occur to me that I already had one? And the answer is yes, because I have the exact same size and a jacket for me. So yes, I have one. So let's just say, let's indulge my psychoness, okay?

• 57:55Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 57:55Mel Robbins?

  Because I think we all have that. If you're a creative mind, you're also thinking, huh, someday, 15 years from now, there might be a scenario where I wish I had this. Right? So let's just say, I go, okay. I, um, where am I going to look for this first? And I make a snap decision. This goes in my guest closet. Right? And I have a little rack in the basement.

• 58:19Speaker 01

  No, no, you, you didn't make a decision.

• 58:22Mel Robbins?

  Uh oh.

• 58:22Speaker 01

  You asked yourself a question that revealed your instinct of where you would look for it first. Sorry.

• 58:29Mel Robbins?

  If I, no, no, no. Great, great, great. If I needed this item, where would I look for it first? And my instinct would be, it would be in the basement, in a little area I've created for extra stuff in case somebody needs to borrow something.

• 58:44Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 58:45Mel Robbins?

  I don't know why I need this, but I had it. So I would then go downstairs to the basement to this place that has not been created yet. And I would put the jacket there.

• 58:56Speaker 01

  Yeah. If that's the place where you would look for it first, then you put it there. But if there is no thing there, like there's no place for it, but there's a pile of other stuff. Okay, I'm not going to leave that any worse. So what am I willing to get rid of in order to make room for this jacket?

• 59:12Mel Robbins?

  Oh.

• 59:12Speaker 01

  Which often, which means something is leaving your house, right? So you are decluttering, but often it will help you realize, oh, wait, there's not actually a good place for this here. Or wait, I'm not willing to get rid of any of this stuff in order for this jacket to stay. And it will help you realize, oh, I could just donate this item.

• 59:36Mel Robbins?

  Yeah, that's what I'm getting through all of this. Like, I'm realizing this process helps you deal with yourself.

• 59:41Speaker 01

  Yes. But if you don't take it there now, you're living in this land of hypotheses.

• 59:47Mel Robbins?

  I'm still thinking about the damn jacket. Right now.

• 59:51Speaker 01

  You're like, oh, oh, I'm gonna put it down there. Yeah, I'll make a space down there.

• 59:54Mel Robbins?

  Yes.

• 59:55Speaker 01

  But you're not dealing with the reality of the actual space. You're not dealing with the reality of if I take it down to this spot and then I realized this spot is full of spiders and all this stuff. And I don't want to leave a jacket down here. You know what I mean? But when I go there, it forces me into that reality. So much of what I do, probably 100% honestly, of what I do is just a process that helps me accept reality.

• 1:00:22Mel Robbins?

  I love this.

• 1:00:23Speaker 01

  Reality about myself, reality about my stuff, reality about my space, all that.

• 1:00:27Mel Robbins?

  I love this. Before we get into the final step, I just want to point something out to you listening. If you're starting to kind of roll your eyes at me about like this stupid jacket and the details that I'm going through and all this stuff I'm confessing, I want you to know I'm doing it on purpose because I want to make a very important point. Everything that I'm telling you, I am thinking. This is going on in my brain, but it's happening in nanoseconds and in my subconscious. But it weighs on me emotionally. That's what she's talking about when she talks about these like value decisions. And you do the same thing, whether it's the report that you keep shoving to the pile on the left because you don't want to deal with it and you're overwhelmed with everything

• 1:01:12Mel Robbins?

  else and all this stuff is sitting on your desk, or it's a spare change that is piling up in the cup holder of your car and now there's like dirty gum wrappers and stuff in there too. And you keep thinking, oh, I should clean it out, but then this, or the receipts. How about those receipts that are choking your wallet? But you're not dealing with it because you're afraid you might lose something if you pull it out. We all do this. And I'm trying to make a point that not dealing with something doesn't mean it goes away. In fact, there is this subconscious cognitive load that you're carrying as you are subconsciously processing all the emotions related to.

• 1:01:52Mel Robbins?

  Just starting the process. And this is important to talk about because we're not really talking about organization here. And we're not really even talking about decluttering. We're talking about how you can take proactive steps to feel calmer, to feel more in control, to feel more at peace, and to help your brain not be so overwhelmed. It doesn't need to be processing all your concerns about the coat, or the change, or the report. And so, when Dana talks about clutter, don't stay on the surface, because this goes way beyond stuff. I'm not crazy, and neither are you. But when your brain is overwhelmed,

• 1:02:37Mel Robbins?

  what I'm learning is you and I need to start the decluttering process in order to help it, full stop. Mm-hmm, yeah. In fact, now that I'm becoming very clear about your process and the connection to the cognitive load, I'm starting to see things in the space right now, here in our office, that are pure clutter, that have emotional weight to them, and they need to leave. And I'm gonna explain one of them right now, and it's gonna sound ridiculous, but as I explain this example, I want you to look around where you are. And I want you to let your mind spot something that you know needs to go. It's like stupid. You put it in something, you made it look nice,

• 1:03:22Mel Robbins?

  but you haven't touched it in a decade. I'll tell you what mine is. "Hey, Jesse, could you grab me that mason jar over there on our caddy? The one with the colored pencils in it? Great, thank you." So, I'm holding a mason jar right here. And in this mason jar are watercolor pencils that Chris's mother gave to one of our kids 10 years ago for Christmas. I've never used them. Once. But here they are, sitting in a beautiful mason jar, because I've freaking organized them. I've put them in a container to make them look pretty. I don't know why. Figured might as well keep them in the office in case we have spare time and the team would like to do a little arts and crafts project. I actually moved these from our house outside of Boston and brought them here.

• 1:04:06Mel Robbins?

  This is crazy. But you know what my brain is saying? But when JJ gave them to the kids, she said, "Now, kids, these are real art supplies. They're expensive. Make sure you take care of them." Did they take care of them? No. But now here I am organizing them in a jar. We need to get rid of them. There is something in your space right now that I want you to do the threshold test. Look around. Something that maybe you've organized, or a pile that you keep ignoring. And you're going to notice your brain is now going to start to spin. That's that cognitive load I'm talking about. And what Dana's teaching all of us is that every single day throughout the day, when you notice this kind of stuff, you can empower yourself to make the space better.

• 1:04:51Mel Robbins?

  To remove things that you don't need. To declutter so that you create space for peace. For focus. So that you also create space so that the things you actually love and use have space. This is honestly so simple, but it's really life-changing, the way that you've explained this today, Dana.

• 1:05:12Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:05:13Mel Robbins?

  Wow. How do you stop bringing new stuff into your home?

• 1:05:19Speaker 01

  So, you know how when you get sick from some kind of a food, and then you never want to eat that food again?

• 1:05:27Mel Robbins?

  Uh-huh.

• 1:05:29Speaker 01

  It's because you had a negative experience with it. That's the beauty of decluttering. There's a big difference in what you see at the store or the garage sale. You'll start to see it as future clutter. And it will naturally keep you from bringing things into your house because of the pain and just the physical effort that you've put out decluttering.

• 1:05:51Mel Robbins?

  I'd love to just go to a question from a listener, and we got this question from a ton of people.

• 1:05:57Speaker 02

  Hi Mel, it's Therese. What do you do if your spouse is a sloppy person, but you're not? I feel like I am constantly trying to organize our house and keep it clean, but my husband has such a difficult time keeping it that way. I am constantly picking up after him. Anyone that comes over knows my side of the room versus his side. We are childless by choice, but sometimes I feel like I have a house full of them. Help, thank you.

• 1:06:28Mel Robbins?

  Dana?

• 1:06:29Speaker 01

  Yes?

• 1:06:30Mel Robbins?

  Please help us, because I am her husband. Chris's clutter threshold is higher than mine. He is always picking up after me. And it's frustrating for him, because he has often said, "It makes me feel like you think I'm your maid." How do you handle this conflict between an organized person and somebody who has a lower threshold?

• 1:06:55Speaker 01

  The first thing I would do is tell a little story about my husband. He was very nice and sweet about it, but he just said, "I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but I've realized that there... It's like there actually is something wrong with you." And I was so happy that he said that to me, because what he was saying was, because he went on to say, "I've realized you don't do this on purpose. This is not... You are not refusing to close the cabinet doors. You just literally don't notice whether they're open or closed.

• 1:07:38Speaker 01

  You are not putting something down, thinking, 'Oh, he will get rid of that later.' You don't realize it. I've realized this is how your brain works." And I was like, "Thank you." Exactly. It comes down to that clutter threshold. And remember, you're probably not going to help the other person do better in these types of things by organizing. You're going to help them by... Decluttering, even some of your own like stuff in that common area.

• 1:08:08Mel Robbins?

  So do you recommend that a couple do that together to start in the common space? So that you both learn the process?

• 1:08:15Speaker 01

  Not to start. I recommend that whoever is listening to me, you're the one who cares enough to be, you know, listening to this podcast right now. And so you go ahead and deal with your own stuff, like don't start with the other person's stuff. That is a recipe for disaster. And yet their stuff is more obviously clutter, right? But start with your own stuff first and neutral stuff, invisible spaces. As you do that and your family starts to see, it's so much easier to live in our house with less stuff. Then other people start to get on board. Their view of stuff and clutter starts to change.

• 1:08:56Mel Robbins?

  For anybody listening, can you just let them know a little bit about the emotional aspect of trying to let go of stuff and going through the process of decluttering?

• 1:09:11Speaker 01

  Yeah. So my five step process specifically, purposefully does not use emotions to declutter. Because I was so emotionally attached to my stuff, either because it represented who I thought I was going to be someday, or who I had been in the past, or, you know, just sentimental things that people had given me. As you start with these things and you make visible progress before you've ever even dealt with anything that has emotion attached to it, is you see the progress that you're making. And you realize, oh, wow, open space.

• 1:09:57Speaker 01

  Less stuff changes my house. By the time you get to more emotional stuff, it looks different to you, right?

• 1:10:05Mel Robbins?

  Oh, that's great. Well, you've changed my life. Dana, we have loved having you on the podcast. Thank you so much.

• 1:10:14Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:10:14Mel Robbins?

  I can't wait to hear how you put everything you just learned into use to create a better life. And in case nobody else tells you, I'm going to tell you, I love you, especially you slobs out there, you people who can't get your shit together like me, you bathroom counter clutterers. I see you. You're my people. And for you, if you're the OCD neat Nick, I love you too. Please use today's episode to be kinder to yourself, to declutter, and to go create a better life. Alrighty, I'll see you in a few days. You ready? Okay, can you hear me? Oh, now I can hear you. Okay, great. Okay, here we go. We're rolling.

• 1:10:59Mel Robbins?

  Oh, I'm going to air my dirty laundry. We're going to get dirty. No, is it dirty cluttered? No, I'm coming clean. Oh, nice. Okay, okay, here we go. Got it.

• 1:11:08Speaker 02

  Do you mind hiding your camera?

• 1:11:10Mel Robbins?

  That way I won't look at you. Jesse keeps standing back there going like this to me because I'm looking at you, Donna. Oh, my God.

• 1:11:16Speaker 02

  Where's she looking?

• 1:11:17Mel Robbins?

  I don't know. Okay.

• 1:11:19Speaker 02

  Right here.

• 1:11:20Mel Robbins?

  All right. Okay. Fabulous. Perfect. You're awesome. Thank you very much for doing that. Thank you, thank you all. Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist, and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good.

• 1:12:05Mel Robbins?

  I'll see you in the next episode. Stitcher.

• 1:12:13Mel Robbins?

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• 1:12:57Mel Robbins?

  SoFi Checking and Savings is offered through SoFi Bank, N.A., member FDIC. Nearly 50 years after Stephen King's Carrie became a cultural phenomenon, Mike Flanagan is reimagining the iconic story for a new generation. Now, the new series honors the legacy of the original Carrie, but it's asking the question, are we watching the origin of a hero, a villain, or something far more complicated? And in this modern social media age, Carrie's new story resonates more than ever. You don't want to miss it. Carrie is streaming October 7th only on Prime Video.