A Rollicking NBA Mailbag and March Madness Storylines With Rob Mahoney, Tate Frazier, and J. Kyle Mann

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Rob Mahoney LIVE on Netflix to answer some NBA mailbag questions (0:32). Then, Tate Frazier and J. Kyle Mann react to the March Madness bracket reveal, and much more (55:48). Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Rob Mahoney, J. Kyle Mann, and Tate Frazier Producers: Chia Hao Tat and Eduardo Ocampo Sam’s Club | Join The Club of Yes And The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit⁠⁠⁠ www.rg-help.com⁠⁠⁠ to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Bill Simmons?

  This episode is brought to you by Carhartt. We spend a lot of time talking about football, the players, the coaches, the big plays, but there's a whole other team we rarely think about, the people who make the game possible, the workers building stadiums, paving parking lots, growing the grass, welding the goalposts, even making the footballs. They're committed to their craft and they're doing the work long before kickoff. Carhartt is proud to outfit those crews. So next time you're watching a game, take a second to appreciate the people behind it. Learn more at carhartt.com/jointhetrades.

• 1:03Bill Simmons?

  It's the Bill Simmons Podcast, presented by the Ringer Podcast Network. Rob Mahoney is here, Kyle Mann and Tate Frazier will be joining later to talk a little March Madness. I have a new rewatchable tomorrow. How's CR month been for you, Mahoney? I mean, isn't every month CR month for us? Well, I just, we officially put a stamp on it. Told everyone, even though every month is CR month, this is really CR month. You're gonna be on the fourth one we do. So we have Till, Live and Die in L.A. is going up tomorrow. And then you're gonna be on The Nice Guys, which we're doing a week from Monday. So stay tuned for that. We're into a little mailbag and I have some topical questions. Rob, I only sent you like three, so some of these are surprises. You're not gonna be surprised by this first one.

• 1:46Bill Simmons?

  This is from every Lakers fan I know. Simmons, can I believe in the Lakers yet? Three question marks. That's just, that's an amalgam of all the Lakers texts that I've gotten. I know you did a little bit with Zach on his podcast on Thursday. Yeah. Their last 11, they're eight and three. They have the fourth net rating, first offensive rating. Luka?

• 2:09Bill Simmons?

  Not that he didn't look like Luca before, but this is probably the most fun it seems like he's had. And they had an awesome win last night that came down to Austin Reeves throwing the ball against the rim and catching it and putting it back in, which works. One out of 200 times. I don't know.

• 2:22Speaker 01

  But that was the one.

• 2:23Bill Simmons?

  300 times. There it was. That was the one.

• 2:25Speaker 01

  As precisely executed as that could exactly be.

• 2:28Bill Simmons?

  So what do you think? I mean, my four contenders right now, I would say the three West teams. I think the Celtics have to be in there now with Tatum.

• 2:37Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 2:38Bill Simmons?

  And then Cleveland, Knicks, Pistons. I want to see how these next 13 games go. Would you move? That four spot in the West is wide open. Would you, would you have the Lakers as the fourth best team in the West right now?

• 2:51Speaker 01

  I, I'm very tempted. And I, so here's the thing. It's tempting because the Lakers have been so good. The defense, I think, is legitimately. Worlds ahead of where it was a couple of months ago. Marcus Smart in the rotation and the starting lineup has been really good for them. Luca, as you mentioned, just been unbelievable. Like, all those things are real. They're also real because the Nuggets have been kind of like eh, like trying to get their feet under them. It's hard to know who's going to be healthy for them and when. They're still finding their way. The Rockets have fallen off a cliff. The Timberwolves are out in the wilderness. So it's like, if not the Lakers. Is it the Wolves by default? Like, I don't know who else you would pick.

• 3:28Bill Simmons?

  I mean, you could have talked me into a stealth underdog Clippers case before Niederhauser got hurt and then Kawhi sprained his ankle yesterday. It just seems like.

• 3:36Speaker 01

  They lost to the Kings. Like, at that point, you're at risk of relegation.

• 3:40Bill Simmons?

  That's, and, and Russ was talking just incredible amounts of smack. Nobody's ever talked more smack 35 games under 500 than Russell Westbrook. There, there's a couple of things with the Lakers. One is the close game stuff. Where you just feel, like even yesterday, they're down 109, 103 with two minutes left and you still feel like they're in it because they have Luca. Right? And then they have Reeves as the second option. The free throw differential is nuts. It's, I think it's, I think they're plus, they're over 300. I think it's plus 320. For the year, they're first in the league. They just get five more free throws just because of the style of play they have and because they're the Lakers. The biggest thing for me, though. The LeBron, Luca Reeves, Smart, Ayton, that five man is now plus five, which isn't terrible.

• 4:24Bill Simmons?

  You want your best lineup to be plus 10, plus 11. It's okay. And Smart has been, I think, better than I thought he was going to be. Ayton is still a roller coaster ride. I don't trust him at all. But I think in the playoffs, you saw it yesterday. The ball seems to find Marcus Smart with a minute left, with 40 seconds left, with 38 seconds left. He's just the guy they're going to leave open and these games come down to whether he can hit that shot or not. I don't trust it personally. What do you think?

• 4:52Speaker 01

  All of recent history would agree with you. And it's just like by default with the rotation, there's nowhere else to turn. Like he is, he is the guy out there and having him defensively has been so important for them. Like I'm okay. I'm okay with that trade off because he's going to miss a fair number of those shots as you're alluding to. But he's going to make enough other plays to hopefully make up for it in the ways that they need. And so if, as long as that's kind of coming out in the wash, that's great for them. But really the Marcus Smart piece of it is just, it's going to matter less than, you know, Luca being able to problem solve at a level that basically no one else in the league can, save for a couple of players. And if you're talking about these other kind of contenders in the West, I just trust an offense led by him with the ball,

• 5:34Speaker 01

  even with, you know, everything that they're still sorting out in terms of the chemistry and the on court flow with LeBron, with Austin. All of that stuff is fine because Luca can figure it out. And I think he can figure it out more consistently than even someone like Ant can at this point, to be honest with you.

• 5:49Bill Simmons?

  And they had a timely LeBron injury is where does that sound? He only left for a couple of games. It reset the calibration and he came back and it's been interesting to watch him reinvent himself. As this basically third option. Can I rebound, make some hustle plays? He made a great diving hustle play yesterday, which I've never seen him do. JJ said afterwards, he's like, I've never seen LeBron do that before. And LeBron's like, yeah, I don't think I've ever done that before.

• 6:14Speaker 01

  I mean, he was, he was full Rodman horizontal extension into a dive for a loose ball. Like for, for a dude his age, at this point in his career, to say nothing of everything he's accomplished. I mean, just a fucking awesome play to watch.

• 6:27Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. And I wonder. Yeah, I was thinking about players' older stages of their careers and he's the oldest player we've ever had in this situation, but there was a Shawn Marion Dallas 2011, where he was just a different version of himself, better defensively than LeBron, obviously. LeBron's better offensively than Shawn Marion was, but really figured out how to be an effective, awesome, kind of third, fourth banana role player, right? Karl Malone figured that out in the 2004 Lakers before he got hurt. We've seen guys kind of morph into somebody we never thought we'd see. I wonder if he can do it, because this was the first time when he came back from that streak and they were playing so well with Reeves and Luka, this is the first time I really felt

• 7:08Bill Simmons?

  like he was like, all right, it's you guys now and I'm over here and I'm here to help and I'm going to chip in and figure out with my, with my super basketball brain, how I can kind of nibble at the edges. I don't know if it's going to work or not, but I had written this team off as a contender. Now I'm like, because of what's happened in the West and because Denver is just a train wreck at the end of these games. I just wonder like, yeah, maybe they could win two rounds. I don't know.

• 7:35Speaker 01

  It's like, at this point, they feel like a somewhat convincing maybe. And for where they have been, that is a dramatic improvement. Like that is leaps and bounds ahead. And if you look at all the season-long indicators, they're not going to be all that convincing, like things like point differential and stuff like that. The Lakers are going to be way behind some of these other competitive teams in the West. But you zoom in far enough and they just look like a totally different team.

• 7:57Bill Simmons?

  All right, couple more mailbag questions. We'll see in the Lakers. Obviously, I'm horrified. It does leave the, the chance still of a Celtics Lakers Finals, which would be, which should be a basketball holy war. I really hope that happens.

• 8:10Speaker 01

  Are you horrified, though, if it does come down to it? The Lakers go on a great run and it is a Marcus Smart shot that really seals something important for them. Is there not a part of you that would swell with pride?

• 8:21Bill Simmons?

  I do like Marcus. It is funny getting the PTSD of having been in that situation so many with the no, no, yes Marcus shot. And now the Laker fans are just have basically taken that over. Okay, more mailbag stuff. So heading into, this is from Christian in New Haven. Heading into Oscar Sunday, Joel Embiid has officially missed as many games as he's played. Right now it's 485 to 45. Did you know that? It's dead even.

• 8:47Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 8:48Bill Simmons?

  45, 45, missed, played. Which side, this is Christian asking, which side will get to 500 first? Games played or games missed? What's the gambling line? So I think with his injuries now and the fact that they're in the playoffs, we're going to see him again.

• 9:05Bill Simmons?

  So I think I'm probably a little more likely to bet on the games played versus the games missed. But I, this would be unbelievable if he got to 1,000 exactly and it was 500, 500. We could not have predicted that. You seem saddened by this.

• 9:17Speaker 01

  I mean, I'm saddened by most things surrounding Joel Embiid, especially if it does end up being 500 games missed first. Like it would be a fair representation of what his career has been for the most part. But yeah, I'm going to be pretty bummed out about that.

• 9:31Bill Simmons?

  Man, this is, I mean, you could kind of see the signs even when he got hurt in the draft process. And he's a big guy, seven foot two. There's a lot of red flags. But when you look at the games played the last couple of years, I think it's like 33, 19. It's tough.

• 9:46Speaker 01

  This one Sixers season has been such a mess. Like I feel like, I like a lot of the fringe guys on their roster. And at some point I wished on a monkey's paw that like, I wish Dominic Barlow would get more minutes. And this is what happens. Paul George gets suspended. Tyrese Maxey is out with, you know, with the ankle thing or whatever he's dealing with. Joel in and out of the lineup. Like it's, they just can't ever get any positive momentum in any direction. And that's in a season where they just drafted VJ Edgecombe, who's awesome.

• 10:14Bill Simmons?

  The McCain trade, as relatively minor as that was, did not help.

• 10:17Speaker 01

  Damning.

• 10:18Bill Simmons?

  The fact that he went to OKC was immediately good. I actually thought they got a lot back for him. They got the Rockets pick, three second rounders. He wasn't really playing for the Sixers. But now it looks terrible.

• 10:28Speaker 01

  Are there, are there any other GMs or teams where if they call interested in the guy at the end of your bench? Other than the Thunder, where it's like the Thunder, like I think you should be suspicious. But is there anyone else in that category for you where if the Spurs call or if the Nuggets call or if the Knicks call?

• 10:44Bill Simmons?

  Don't you think Brad Stevens is at that level now? He's like cherry picking these, you know, weird role players. Like even somebody like Kada was just kind of released by Sacramento. I'd be nervous. Presti, Brad Stevens, San Antonio would be the three I'd be nervous.

• 10:59Speaker 01

  As much as I would like to dispel the Celtics fanaticism around this point, like I don't know what to tell you, like Baylor Shireman is an important part of this team. It's like four consecutive years of late first and like early second round picks coming home to roost. Like they just have cracked this stuff.

• 11:13Bill Simmons?

  Hugos having like one of the 10 greatest plus minuses of all time. It's a classic. This is from Harriet, didn't say where she's from. Have we reached a weird place with these scoring streaks? So this is I guess coming off the SGA thing.

• 11:27Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 11:27Bill Simmons?

  We treat them like this continuous thing, but the second the playoffs start, the streak goes into hibernation. SGA claims he's at 120 plus straight games at 20 points, but he went under that number three times in the last playoffs when the games matter most. She's confused. I'm a little confused by it too, but I think this is what we do with regular season streaks. Cause I went back and I looked, Wilt, when he had his long streak, he had, uh, I don't know, six playoff games or something, but he never went under the 20. So it actually would have rolled over, but we, there is this delineation between regular season and playoffs. So I'm okay with it. The bigger thing to me is did you know this was a streak like a year ago? Did you know what the record was? My whole thing is when we have these streaks and I never knew what the record was and

• 12:12Bill Simmons?

  you held it and then you're telling me it's a streak.

• 12:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:15Bill Simmons?

  I'm just like, okay, I guess that's a streak, but it's not, you know, like the 33 game Lakers streak. That's a streak. I know what that is. People remember it, people have been talking about it forever, but did this feel like a manufactured one to you or one that we should have recognized sooner?

• 12:29Speaker 01

  So I knew that Wilt held it, but yeah, I could not have told you the number. And to your point, like I think that does separate it from being like the pinnacle in terms of these streaks or these records that are broken. Yeah, you need to know it in specificity if it's really hitting home. At the same time, like it's an amazing record to hold.

• 12:46Bill Simmons?

  It's amazing.

• 12:47Speaker 01

  And an incredible achievement for Shay in particular, who has just turned himself into like such an undeniable force and exactly the kind of guy who you would think would hold a record like that.

• 12:57Bill Simmons?

  And today he had 10 in the fourth quarter and they're pretty easily beating Minnesota, who's just out to lunch. I don't know what's going on with them. But then somehow got to 10 points and it was organic. It wasn't like he was like gunning it against the Wizards in the fourth quarter. You know, he was still like the game was a little bit in doubt and he got a great N1 against Ant to get the record, but it's weird. I think the Kobe nine 40-point games in a row is more impressive for me.

• 13:22Speaker 01

  More impressive than Shay holding the now former Wilt's record?

• 13:27Bill Simmons?

  The night when it happened, it was the 02, 03 season. We had no scoring at all that year, right? That was like, there was like five teams that were fun to watch. And when somebody had 40 points like once, you were like, whoa, he had 41. It was, it just was a lot. And I think I vaguely remember, I think Shaq got hurt and Kobe was in that, I'm ready for this to be my team. Shaq's out. Let me carry us. Give me the car keys and was fucking awesome. And I thought nine straight 40 pointers, like somebody getting a 10 for that. I'd at least have more of an opinion on it because I remembered the Kobe streak. But yeah, 120, it'll be interesting. Like could Shay get to like 200? He's so, he's so automatic and he's such a robot. It would almost be like he would have to get hurt in

• 14:12Bill Simmons?

  the first half or get foul, crazy foul trouble. It's kind of hard to imagine a scenario where he wouldn't get 20. It's too, it's too easy for him to score.

• 14:19Speaker 01

  It's so easy for him to do it. The team is set up for him to do it. And especially in a season like this where, you know, J. Dub has been unavailable for good portions of it and also not quite himself when he has played. It's just like, this is Shay's time to do exactly this sort of thing. And he can modulate as you need him to in a playoff series. I, I do think the question of like how we count this stuff is interesting. I don't, I don't have a good alternative because if you, if you include the playoffs, guys like Shay will get disqualified for being good. Whereas a Zach Levine will just all of a sudden become a record holder because he never actually plays a playoff game. So I don't think it's like fair to penalize him for it, but I don't think there's a great solution.

• 14:59Bill Simmons?

  I agree with you. So the Warriors in 16, when they won the 25 straight, they also won the last game of the previous season. So technically it was 26 straight, but we just don't do it that way. We delineate it. Uh, this is from huge fan of the pod one. As an early birthday gift, my cousin got me tickets and I got to witness Bam's 83-point game in person. What started out as a quick grab for some cheap tickets turned into the most fever dream experience I've ever had as a Heat fan. What NBA game have you attended that felt most like a fever dream?

• 15:30Speaker 01

  I gotta say, I hadn't considered the experience of just like buying a normal Heat ticket and showing up and getting that game. We've talked so much about like people tuning in at home, you know, the players on the court, all of us and like wringing our hands about what this means for the ethics of the sport. But just like, you just thought this was gonna be a normal weeknight and Bam had a bio score to 83 points and now you have to make sense of that in your everyday life. It's just like a really unique thing.

• 15:55Bill Simmons?

  I can't imagine even in the first quarter being like, does Bam have 30? What's going on here? My fever dream game was, I was at the game and Larry Bird and Dr. J had the fight.

• 16:07Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 16:08Bill Simmons?

  And it was just the most, and it happened right in front of me and it was the most startling. And Bird was kicking his ass that game. It was kind of the passing of the torch game. But watching them actually get in a fight was the most stunning thing I've ever seen in person. Obviously, the Artest melee would have been much crazier, but just like, wow, these guys are fighting? Like, these were like the two icons of the league along with Magic, you know? And it was just like, I can't believe this is happening. The only other fever dream game I had was the game six 2012 Celtics-Heat that I went to when LeBron came out and it seemed like they were gonna end the Heat dynasty before they won a title and they were gonna blow up and then LeBron completely crushed them. And it just

• 16:51Bill Simmons?

  felt for two hours like, just helpless. Like, oh my God. Have you been to, what was your fever dream game? Do you have one? Maybe you haven't had one yet.

• 16:59Speaker 01

  I think for me, it is distinctly game six Klay versus Oklahoma City in 2016 where he had 11 threes in that game. Like, I've just never seen a human being engulfed in more flames than Klay Thompson in that game. And it was one of those, in the moment, it was like, this feels like something just shifted. Like, history just kind of changed in real time. And I thought that was gonna mean the Warriors were gonna go on to win and be crowned as one of the great teams of all time, which they still are, but. I would say it did two things fundamentally like Kevin Durant probably doesn't leave the Thunder without that game. And then we don't get the just absolutely iconic Cavs comeback in the finals in quite the same way or anything resembling the same way without that particular game. So a lot did shift, just maybe not quite what I expected.

• 17:43Bill Simmons?

  And we would have had an OKC Cleveland 2016 finals, which would have been strange. So Joe Robinson sent a two-part question based off the Bam 83. If you had just said for last decade, five guys you would have pegged to break the 81. He said for him, it would have been KD, Luka, Curry, Harden and Dame. Did that look like the right five for you?

• 18:07Speaker 01

  That checks out.

• 18:09Bill Simmons?

  KD, Luka, because I don't, I don't think LeBron, he was never a guy that was gonna do that.

• 18:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:14Bill Simmons?

  I don't even know what LeBron's highest point total was, but I don't even think he got to, it's just not how he played. I don't think he would have taken that many shots, but those five guys seem like the right guys.

• 18:24Speaker 01

  Those seem, those seem like good, honestly, like healthy MVP season Joel, I think was a decent candidate for this. Like he's had so many runs where he's doing like point a minute or better. And then maybe Russ at the height of his powers, when no one could tell him no, and he could take any shot he wanted. I could see him at least gunning for it.

• 18:42Bill Simmons?

  And Cam Thomas, that would be your eighth. Just Cam Thomas really feeling it one night. His second part was a more interesting one to me. And I talked about this with Legs a little bit, but he asked with Bam scoring 83, does somebody break Wilt's record before 2030? I don't think before 2030, but I do think it'll happen. I went back and I looked at Bam's 83, Kobe's 81, Kobe's 62 against Dallas when he only had the three quarters.

• 19:06Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 19:07Bill Simmons?

  Luka's 73, Dame's one, and Dame's 71. And I tried to figure out like what the box score would look like. So Kobe's 81, where he's 28 for 46, he had seven threes, 18 for 20 from the free throw line. So you'd have to bump some of that up. Anyway, here's, I think somebody would have to go 30 for 46 to have to make 30 field goals.

• 19:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:32Bill Simmons?

  14 for like 25 from three.

• 19:36Bill Simmons?

  So 14, 3, 16, 2s. And then 26 for 31 from the free throw line. Now, as crazy as all that sounds, it's a slightly elevated from some of the best performances in those different categories. So 30 for 46, you'd have to go 16 for 21 from two. It's like, well, that's crazy. Well, Luca, when he had his 73, Luca was 25 for 33, but he was 8 for 13 from three. He went 17 for 20 on 2s. And this leads to my point. I think if anyone can get to 90, I think it's Luca. The more I thought about this over the last few days, like combination of three-point shooting,

• 20:13Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 20:14Bill Simmons?

  physicality. If he was in shape enough to have the endurance, if he went for it, like guys were out on the team. If the game stayed relatively close, if he started fouling guys out, I think he would be my pick.

• 20:28Speaker 01

  Everything you're saying makes sense. Like, he has the role for it. He has the talent for it. He has the game for it. He also has like the fuck you spite factor for it, where like this wasn't really an issue for Bam and the Wizards, but like on the wrong night against the wrong opponent, if you get under Luca's skin, like ask the Chicago Bulls. Like, they just went through this. Like, you talk trash to that guy in the middle of the game, and all of a sudden, he goes off for 50. Like, it's just something-

• 20:51Bill Simmons?

  Because Ellis was apologizing after. I did mean to.

• 20:53Speaker 01

  Wasn't familiar with your game. Like, I think he has all of that going in his favor. The question of like someone breaking 100, though, is, I think it would require, like, a dramatic shift in the way the game is played. And so that might be an argument against Luca, just as somebody who is anchored in the here and now. If someone is gonna make, like, eventually make a run at that thing, it may have to be 10 or 15 or 20 years from now, where ultimately, the old, like, the strategy of the league has shifted so much that it would allow for it. Because so many of the recent scoring binges, Bam included, frankly, have been so three-point reliant because that's the way that the league has changed over time. Right? Like, there's just so much more allowance for guys like Steph and Luca to chase records and pursue them in that way.

• 21:37Speaker 01

  But that's just kind of what everyone does now. And so if someone was going to do it, if someone was gonna get close, I would think we might have already seen it.

• 21:44Bill Simmons?

  Bam was 7 for 22 from 3. If you tweet that to 11 for 22, now I'm at 95.

• 21:52Speaker 01

  That's fair.

• 21:53Bill Simmons?

  I think Bam, part of the recipe was what Bam did in that game where the 30 in the first quarter. I think that's a necessity. I think you need between 30 and 33 in the first quarter. And I think you need to be over 50 at halftime. And then that fourth quarter, if you're in the mid to high 60s, you can really game the fourth quarter. And you saw a little like Miami with the fouling and trying to get the ball back. I think you could game this system a little bit. Brad from Nashville writes, hi Bill. One night in 2006, Kobe scored 81 and I was high. I emailed you to tell me that, tell you that the Mambo is freaking me out and it made the mailbag. 20 years later in 2026, Bam scored 83 and I'm drunk. And I'm emailing you to tell you that it's freaking me out. So things never change. Thanks Brad. Thanks for weighing in.

• 22:39Speaker 01

  Brad, I think us and the, you know, the people who love you in your life might need to sit down and have some conversations.

• 22:44Bill Simmons?

  Brad, could you appear at this location at 3 o'clock? Some of your friends are going to be there. Derek from Charlotte says, the NFL has been doing the replay reviews during the commercial break. Coming back from the play, ready to go. And the announcers tell us the decision. Why can't the NBA do this? They spent commercials reviewing the play. We come back, they're still reviewing. Then they give us a 35 second explanation no one needs. It's a great point. I, I think this could just be done in three and a half minutes. Review, let's go to commercial, come back. The refs have 75 seconds to determine it. I mean, how, how long can you stare at the replay monitor? Like let's.

• 23:20Speaker 01

  A long time apparently.

• 23:21Bill Simmons?

  Do you know right away or not?

• 23:22Speaker 01

  They're, they're out there like watching one battle after another. They're just like fully locked in for hours, it seems like.

• 23:27Bill Simmons?

  There was one the other day, I swear it was like 10 minutes, but I just think it's like 75 second shot clock on it, basically. Just see every replay.

• 23:35Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 23:35Bill Simmons?

  Get four of them. And this should not take more than three and a half minutes total and we should be in commercial for some of it. Why, why wouldn't that be how we did it?

• 23:43Speaker 01

  I'm absolutely willing to concede the commercial time, like sell me Taco Bell or whatever it needs to happen, especially when you'll catch moments during these broadcasts where actual gameplay is going on, game goes minimized, ad goes almost fullscreen. As like, again, as the game is going on, why is that not happening during a replay review? Why aren't we just factoring that? Like, you're just gonna have time baked into all of these games where somebody challenges and there's dead time on air and you can do as many reads as you want, you can rapid fire them if you like, I will be a susceptible audience.

• 24:15Bill Simmons?

  And why haven't they figured out the league past timeouts? When they just cut to the people dancing on the, to try to get on the Jumbotron for three minutes.

• 24:22Speaker 01

  That's what I want, you don't want that?

• 24:24Bill Simmons?

  Well, I tell you, my wife loves it. And it's very illuminating on different parts of the country, how desperate and excited they are to get on the Jumbotron.

• 24:33Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 24:34Bill Simmons?

  Right? Some of the coasts, little more restrained, we get into some of the more fun cities, people are really getting into it.

• 24:41Speaker 01

  Okay, so more fun, okay. I was worried you were going coastal elite with this, but you're saying people are being too cool on the coasts.

• 24:48Bill Simmons?

  I think people are, it's like, some people are like, oh, look, come on, there's, you go to some of the NBA cities, they're trying to get on, they're doing dances, they're shaking stuff, great stuff. Next question's from Brian Greenway. He had a nickname for Khan Canipal, he wants to call him Shotgun Khan. Not only is it a cool nickname that captures, you know, his shooting, it also describes how Khan rode in Bill's car, presuming Bill didn't strap him into one of Zoe's old car seats.

• 25:18Bill Simmons?

  I'm glad people are still getting mileage out of that. By the way, I didn't drive him to his house, I drove him to his hotel.

• 25:23Speaker 01

  Sure. It's an important distinction. I appreciate you clarifying on this point.

• 25:27Bill Simmons?

  I would do it again.

• 25:28Speaker 01

  The only problem with this is you can't vote for it. Like, you can't be the one to assign Khan the Bill-oriented nickname, it has to come from, from a dear listener, it's gotta come from the world.

• 25:38Bill Simmons?

  It's gotta be organic. Parker writes in. What's the most important three-point shot of Steph Curry's career? I figured you'd know. Couple that jumped to mind for him. Double bang.

• 25:48Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 25:49Bill Simmons?

  Gold medal, the, the final three, MSG record breaker, uh, 2015 game six, seven minutes. I don't even remember that one. And then 2022 NBA finals, game four, which doesn't necessarily have the one signature shot. For me, Rob, Olympic shots, one, double bangs, two. And I think he hits three threes in a row in the third quarter, game four and 22 in the finals in Boston.

• 26:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:14Bill Simmons?

  And the second one is just from 32 feet and Tatum bumps into him and they don't call it. And it's the official moment of that game where all the Boston fans were like, oh no, I've, I've, I've seen this movie before when he gets like this. Oh no. And then he hit that third one right after that one in the corner when he gave it to Gary Payton. Payton gave him the little slip pass back and he hit it. So that sequence, but it's, it's really the collective sequence. I think it's the Olympic shot. What do you think?

• 26:43Speaker 01

  I would go double bang. I think.

• 26:45Bill Simmons?

  Really?

• 26:46Speaker 01

  I think just because it's like a statement of identity, right? It is, it's become so intertwined with the mythology of Steph, kind of how we understood him as a player and the unique threat he presents on the floor. If, if like the, what, what is the, the official name that's been given to the Olympic shot? The gold, the golden dagger, the golden slumber, the, I think it maybe it is the golden dagger, actually. If it had never happened, I don't think we would. I mean, maybe we could workshop it. Uh, if it had never happened, I don't think it would change the way we think about Steph. But if the double bang had never happened, I do think that would change the way we think about him.

• 27:20Bill Simmons?

  So you're saying double bang was basically like his Scorsese taxi driver?

• 27:25Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 27:25Bill Simmons?

  Like arrival.

• 27:27Speaker 01

  Like, yeah.

• 27:28Bill Simmons?

  The world is now different.

• 27:29Speaker 01

  But this is, this is something else.

• 27:31Bill Simmons?

  The world is now different.

• 27:32Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 27:33Bill Simmons?

  Buckle the fuck up. Yeah, I think that's good. I think you're right. So double bang, one Olympic shot, two, and I would say that third, that middle shot of the three against Boston, because that's his greatest game. And that's like, that's the exclamation point for the career that puts him in the 10 to 12 best all time. He needed that last finals.

• 27:51Speaker 01

  Oh, I mean, and those, I would say those shots in particular, especially the ones in Boston. I mean, Brad might have been in that crowd because it was among the drunkest crowds I have ever seen at any sporting event. It was like, some of these games were starting so late. You could tell people have just been drinking for six straight hours in anticipation of these games. And then Steph is just silencing, you know, all of your ship and up to Boston. So condolences.

• 28:16Bill Simmons?

  That's Boston right now during St. Patrick's Day, the St. Patrick's Day parade on Sundays. Stay safe out there, everybody. Nobody, nobody in that parade is watching this. Uh, this is from Chris Deves. This was an awesome question. I didn't even really come up with an answer for this. He lives in San Antonio. The town has always wanted an NFL team, but it won't happen because of the Cowboys. But hypothetically, would you trade Wemby for the Los Angeles Chargers?

• 28:41Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 28:43Bill Simmons?

  Is it better to have one dynastic pro team or two franchises at once? FYI, I would not do it for Wemby. So he would not trade Wemby for the Los Angeles Chargers. So I guess the way to look back at it, because they've had this already with Duncan. Would they have traded the entire Duncan era? Duncan's just somewhere else, but you get an NFL team that whole time. What would you pick? Really tough one.

• 29:10Speaker 01

  I don't think, I don't think it's that.

• 29:11Bill Simmons?

  On this.

• 29:12Speaker 01

  Bill, I don't think it's that tough. You're going to trade one of the most successful runs of any sports team in modern history for like, what if there's a chance this football team is good some point? Like, why would you do that?

• 29:22Bill Simmons?

  What if you love the NFL? You've always wanted to get a team.

• 29:25Speaker 01

  You're asking the wrong person to start. Yeah.

• 29:28Bill Simmons?

  I would keep the Wemby slash Duncan, because if you have a chance to have one of the 10 best players of all time.

• 29:34Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 29:35Bill Simmons?

  Playing in your city for 15 years, I think that trumps the NFL team.

• 29:38Speaker 01

  But where's the line? Would you trade Stephon Castle?

• 29:41Bill Simmons?

  Oh, yeah. I'd even throw in some picks. Yeah, that, I mean, that's, no, it would have to be a generational thing. I'd be interested to know what the Spurs fans would think. I bet it would be like 80, 20. I'd rather have Wemby, but I bet there's like a little, because they're not getting an NFL team otherwise.

• 29:58Speaker 01

  Barnes, like, come on. What are we talking about?

• 30:00Bill Simmons?

  Well, you're not an NFL guy.

• 30:03Bill Simmons?

  This is from Nathan in Appleton, Wisconsin. He said, "The perfect gift for Cousins to get you would be a 2025 Patriots AFC Champions T-shirt."

• 30:13Bill Simmons?

  "My question for you, what piece of championship apparel would have been the biggest good natured fuck you to a fan friend of that team?"

• 30:19Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 30:20Bill Simmons?

  "As a Pats fan, I don't think it's possible to top a '07 Pats AFC Champions T-shirt." "So this is really kind of a race for second." I had a couple other ideas, but I don't know off the top of your head if you had one.

• 30:32Speaker 01

  I'm trying to think, because it's, I just don't think there's anything you could say to like a Warriors fan about blowing 3-1 that they haven't already heard. Or, and they have so many championships to keep them warm at nights, like what?

• 30:43Bill Simmons?

  That's the thing.

• 30:44Speaker 01

  So who are really even the other contenders for the NBA?

• 30:47Bill Simmons?

  I have some, I have some options. The 2004 Yankees A L East Division Championship, when then they go to lose four in a row to the Red Sox.

• 30:55Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 30:56Bill Simmons?

  Even though the Yankees have won World Series before and since, tough loss. I don't think that's the answer. '07 Pats, whatever, the Pats won six. I had the Warriors down. The two I kind of concentrated on are both NBA. Although it's almost too mean to do to Buffalo. I feel like, like you might actually get beaten up if you had like a Bulls AFC title, whatever. The '76 Suns Western Champs, that was the year, the triple overtime game, when the Suns fans are still mad at the referee who didn't call the Paul Silas timeout.

• 31:25Speaker 01

  If you're giving the fuck you gift to somebody who was invested in the '76 Suns.

• 31:31Bill Simmons?

  78 years old, he's like, "Why, why did you give me this?"

• 31:34Speaker 01

  Are you trying to commit murder? What are you doing?

• 31:36Bill Simmons?

  The '93 Knicks Eastern, whatever division they won when they lost to the Bulls that year. With like a Charles Smith writing on it, I think would, would be really mean. But I, I think the answer is, is probably anything with the Bills or the Vikings, because they haven't won. That's just an extra level of mean. Anything from any conference championship that they won, but they don't have like with the Warriors where like, well, we did win in 2017 and 18. Like it's fine. When they, when you haven't won, I think that's probably the worst one.

• 32:10Speaker 01

  Especially if they've won, any team that's won since, like I just think wouldn't be applicable. The only other NBA thing that comes to mind is if you really wanted to dig in on the Lakers fan in your life. And this isn't like a, you have to dig up this merch that was never made or shipped off to another country, you know, and donated. If you just want to like really hammer them on the bubble title and just like keep talking it up and keep, keep reinforcing how, what an amazing accomplishment it was.

• 32:35Bill Simmons?

  Oh yeah. Like an ironic, the bubble, the best title anyone's ever won. I like that.

• 32:39Speaker 01

  I think it could work.

• 32:41Bill Simmons?

  Tom writes, I know NBA title defenses are a big thing for you. That is true. I do love the title defense. I do think that should be considered part of the championship title. How do you rate OKC's title defense this year? Where do you think it stacks up against the recent ones? He thought, he thought it was a really good one. So I think it's been a home run.

• 33:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:03Bill Simmons?

  I know they're, they're not going to get 70 plus wins. A lot of that had to do with injuries, but I wrote down some stuff. SGA definitely, I think went up a half level. And this was a guy who was the MVP and had an awesome start to finish year last year. But the end of the game stuff is really starting to feel a little MJ-ish, right? So that's like,

• 33:21Speaker 01

  He's crazy.

• 33:22Bill Simmons?

  That has to be part of the title defense.

• 33:25Bill Simmons?

  They've really gone out in these signature games and treated them like real playoff games, like the Denver game the other night or Boston. Like I do feel like they, they're defending whatever place they have in the hierarchy. And you could feel that in these games.

• 33:40Speaker 01

  Even the response game against the Spurs where it was just like, oh, you guys think you have the one up on us in this matchup? This is what happens when we take you seriously.

• 33:48Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. They intro'd a new, a few new characters, which for a TV show is important. We've been, A.J. Mitchell has joined the cast.

• 33:56Speaker 01

  Huge.

• 33:57Bill Simmons?

  Jared McCain, a slightly more offensive, Kason Wallace, he's here too now.

• 34:02Speaker 01

  Hell, yeah.

• 34:03Bill Simmons?

  So we have that. Then some other fun stuff. Dort replaced Draymond as the league's biggest villain.

• 34:08Speaker 01

  Definitely.

• 34:09Bill Simmons?

  I don't think it's, I don't think it's questionable. He's running away for that. They become the poster boys for foul baiting, which is the league's second worst crisis, other than tanking. Now, there's other people that do it, but I think people point to them the most. So that helps their like relevancy title defense thing. Their fans and media members are just, you talking about us? What? There's a lot of that coming from OKC.

• 34:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:33Bill Simmons?

  Combative, combative basketball city. Their games are always entertaining and then, you know, 20, they have 26 J-Dub games right now and half a Hartenstein season. And they're on pace for like 63 and 19. I give this, I give this title defense an A+.

• 34:47Speaker 01

  Hard to imagine things going better, considering what has not gone well, right? Considering that those injury concerns and

• 34:53Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 34:54Speaker 01

  short term and long term. How could you hope for more than this?

• 34:58Bill Simmons?

  You can't. Really fun to watch too. I think their games have been super entertaining. Josiah writes, he had a nickname, him and his buddies have started calling Keonte George the speaker.

• 35:08Speaker 01

  Oh, is this a keynote bit?

• 35:10Bill Simmons?

  You've heard this.

• 35:11Speaker 01

  This is, this is a peril of anyone who texts or types a lot about Keonte George.

• 35:17Bill Simmons?

  So that's what he said. Every time they're Jazz fans, every time they type Keonte, it gets changed to keynote. So they just call him the speaker. So Giannis is another one where this happens, where it always throws in the apostrophe. It's the Yani apostrophe S. And it's, I thought Eddie Q was like a huge, the guy that runs Apple content. I thought he was a huge NBA fan. I don't know. How are they having these typos with the Apple phone?

• 35:42Speaker 01

  Get it together.

• 35:43Bill Simmons?

  Come on, Apple.

• 35:43Speaker 01

  My only concern about Keonte George, the speaker, sounds like something deeply religious from a state where they just don't mess around with that stuff. So like, I just want to, I want to get clearance that like, we're in safe ground here, you know?

• 35:54Bill Simmons?

  Okay. Ron from Florida wants to know, he's, which current NBA teammates are most deserving of the Reggie Willis, Howie Kendrick Memorial Award, presenting the two teammates who need to switch names? He volunteers Jeremy Grant and Donovan Klingon. Klingon just looks like a Jeremy to me. Big fan of the pod.

• 36:11Speaker 01

  He does look like a Jeremy.

• 36:13Bill Simmons?

  So, just walk me through this. If Shay Gilgis Alexander and Isaiah Joe had just switched names eight years ago.

• 36:22Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 36:23Bill Simmons?

  And it was Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Isaiah Joe. Is Isaiah Joe just a cooler name? Cause we call Shay SGA, it has to be an acronym. It's, people spell the Gilgis wrong, some people call it Gilgis.

• 36:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:36Bill Simmons?

  If he was just Isaiah Joe, would that have increased his cool, cool quota by like, I don't know, 10%?

• 36:43Speaker 01

  Isaiah Joe is a pretty cool name, but.

• 36:45Bill Simmons?

  It's a pretty great name.

• 36:45Speaker 01

  Shay Gilgis Alexander also has a nice ring to it.

• 36:48Bill Simmons?

  So you think we're used to, you think that Shay works because it's so distinct?

• 36:52Speaker 01

  I think it's so distinct. My, my question is, are we switching both names or just one name?

• 36:56Bill Simmons?

  No, you have to switch both. It has to work for each guy.

• 36:58Speaker 01

  So it's not Jeremy Klingon? It's Donovan Klingon becomes Jeremy Grant?

• 37:03Bill Simmons?

  And vice versa.

• 37:04Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 37:05Bill Simmons?

  I went through all the rosters because I really enjoyed this question. I couldn't find a perfect one. I thought for sure, I'd be like, oh, there's got it. And I just couldn't. I was like, it was just way harder than I thought. Ben Nielsen wants to, he asks, are we officially done with artificially built basketball teams winning championships? LeBron era Heat, 16 Cavs, 19 Raptors.

• 37:26Speaker 01

  What does that mean?

• 37:27Bill Simmons?

  KD Warriors. Just, I guess like, instead of homegrown, homegrowing your, your guys.

• 37:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:33Bill Simmons?

  Either using free agency and slapping guys together, making big, some sort of big piece, champions that are built more organically.

• 37:44Bill Simmons?

  I'll say this, I do think it would be way, I think it would be impossible now to do the 2011 Heat. Because I think the league's too deep to just be like, we're gonna have three guys and that's it. You have no chance in 2026. Everybody, there's so much depth.

• 37:57Speaker 01

  Free agency just doesn't work the same way either at all.

• 37:59Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. So I think in a weird way, it's a weird question, but I think he's right. I think it would be way harder to just be like, like what the Nets did with KD and Kyrie. We're gonna use free agency. We're gonna build an instant contender and blow. I don't know if you could do it the same way anymore.

• 38:14Speaker 01

  I don't think you can do it that way, but also I don't want to pretend like the Knicks drafted Jalen Brunson. You know, like there, I think there are successful cases around the league right now. Like

• 38:22Bill Simmons?

  Good point. And they traded for Towns.

• 38:24Speaker 01

  And we're talking about the Lakers as a potential contender. That's not because of a guy they drafted. Like, there's still really successful teams who are building them quote unquote artificially, whatever that means.

• 38:35Bill Simmons?

  Alec D wants to know. Can life as a Kings fan get any worse? After 20 years of incompetence, we've reached a new level. Worst record in the league. Now they're, they're actually not worst record in the league, but when he got this, when he got this, they, they were the worst.

• 38:50Speaker 01

  I would argue that might make it worse that they've, they've gone like three and one in their last four.

• 38:54Bill Simmons?

  So maybe it's even worse. Yeah.

• 38:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:56Bill Simmons?

  But he also wants to point out they have a top five payroll.

• 39:01Bill Simmons?

  So the third worst record in the league at a top five payroll. He's like, how could we do worse than this? And the answer is, I don't really know. This is really the James Dolan. This was the mid 2000 Knicks where they would have, you know, the second biggest payroll in the league, but they would go 19 and 63. I think when you can combine overspending with the terrible record and really no assets. That's, that's peak. Can you do worse than that?

• 39:30Speaker 01

  I think this is about as bad as it gets. Like the guys who are on the team, nobody wants in terms of like seeing your way out through a trade. Even if you're hoping for the draft, again, they just fell from the worst record in the league to like the third or fourth worst record in the league, which with the flattened odds isn't as devastating, but wouldn't guarantee you a top five pick. So disaster could strike. I had no idea they were the fifth highest payroll. That is a fucking mess.

• 39:56Bill Simmons?

  He said they're top five. It might even be higher than five.

• 39:58Speaker 01

  Oh my God.

• 40:00Bill Simmons?

  Dan King wants to know. Cooper flag Celtics fandom in Maine ties. I don't know if you saw the Celtic game. The entire state of Maine was at the Celtics Mavs game. We're in for Cooper flag. There's a bargaining chip that has not been discussed, says Dan King. Ace flag. Ace's twin, the twin brother who's at University of Maine. Um, he's a freshman this year. The University of Maine wasn't very good, but he was, you know, he plays basketball. And if you sign. If you sign Ace now. Maybe do a second round pick. Stash him on the roster for you. Maybe you sign him to like a five year deal. So it's like, hey, Cooper. Look over here. I like this. Ace flag, by the way, Celtics.

• 40:43Bill Simmons?

  Dan King points out Celtics G League team is in Maine. Ace flag on the Maine Celtics. As the lure for Cooper fact, by the way, I, I know you, you have a lot of Dallas fans in your life with your Texas connections.

• 40:56Speaker 01

  You can't do this to them.

• 40:57Bill Simmons?

  They absolutely hate. Like it's really getting bad how much they hate when I pick up this Cooper flag.

• 41:03Speaker 01

  Understandably. They've been through some stuff, Phil.

• 41:05Bill Simmons?

  I get it. I get it. But. So, so the Thanasis Alexander Tupacupco can't speak.

• 41:12Speaker 01

  Come on, Bill.

• 41:13Bill Simmons?

  And, and Tedacupo.

• 41:15Speaker 01

  There we go. That's closer.

• 41:17Bill Simmons?

  Do you believe in this as a strategy lure the family member? It's pretty interesting.

• 41:21Speaker 01

  I feel like it could work the other way just fine. Like, couldn't you just?

• 41:25Bill Simmons?

  Then you're stuck?

• 41:26Speaker 01

  Well, like.

• 41:26Bill Simmons?

  You just wait, wait to get him and then get the family member?

• 41:29Speaker 01

  Yeah. Like, don't you need to get Cooper first and then you can just sign Ace flag to whatever contract you would like to sign him to? Because otherwise I just don't know that Ace is going to be in a hot enough demand unless I'm just like dramatically misunderstanding his potential draft stock.

• 41:43Bill Simmons?

  That's fair.

• 41:44Speaker 01

  To think that he will lure Cooper there.

• 41:47Bill Simmons?

  Steven describes himself as a mildly delusional Celtics fan. He's had a theory for eight years. He's been ridiculed. I sent this to you ahead of time. He believes that if Shane Larkin doesn't get hurt during the 2018 Eastern Conference semis against Philly, the Celtics would have beaten the Cavaliers and lost in the finals. He thought he would have given some key minutes in game seven when Terry Rozier was falling apart. Your thoughts is my Shane Larkin would have saved game seven theory insane. I will continue to believe it until my dying days. So my, obviously it's an insane theory.

• 42:18Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 42:19Bill Simmons?

  My question for you is what's your most insane basketball historical thing that you actually believe that you will die on the corner of?

• 42:26Speaker 01

  Uh, before we get to that, can we make sure Shane is okay? Can we get like a wellness check?

• 42:30Bill Simmons?

  Steven, yes, Steven.

• 42:32Speaker 01

  I mean Shane, I want to check on too, because I think he's playing overseas somewhere, but we got to check on some things. Uh, mine is that Sam Cassell definitely did break his hip doing the big balls dance in 2004 and that we would be looking at a dramatically different version of NBA history if he had just like slightly smaller balls, to be honest with you.

• 42:52Bill Simmons?

  Did he really get hurt doing that?

• 42:54Speaker 01

  It's, some people believe so, including me.

• 42:57Bill Simmons?

  Oh, that's a great, why isn't conspiracy built? My, why haven't I done a deep dive on that?

• 43:01Speaker 01

  That's a great question.

• 43:02Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, because they lined up really nicely with the Lakers.

• 43:05Speaker 01

  Lined up nicely with the Lakers, probably could have won that series if they'd been a little healthier than, you know, the 2004 Pistons title that we hold up as this like beacon for all these other teams. What if it just like literally had never happened because Sam Cassell wasn't quite so enthusiastic?

• 43:18Bill Simmons?

  It's a great one. So Sam Cassell's big balls dance swung the finals and they'll probably match up better with the Pistons. Mine is, uh, I've said this before, it won't be a complete shocker to people, but the 2002 Celtics who lost to the Nets in six, I think they could have, could have thrown some haymakers at the O2 Lakers. They really matched up with them well. I know, this is the insane theory I'll believe to your death. They beat them in LA, I think two years in a row.

• 43:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:49Bill Simmons?

  Um, the Pierce Antoine combo for some reason, like the Lakers just didn't really like playing with them. They like going at Kobe. I don't know. I just feel like we could have thrown some punches.

• 43:57Speaker 01

  You think the Antoine Walker era Celtics were gonna?

• 44:01Bill Simmons?

  Rodney Rogers, Kenny Anderson. I don't know.

• 44:03Speaker 01

  Are you okay? Is everyone okay?

• 44:06Bill Simmons?

  I think we would have done better than the Nets. Um, okay. Oh, two questions from Justin from Oregon. We'll go quick. The next weird career arc, like the Kevin Garnett, Kobe Bryant, like the late prime that gets extended. Who's your best candidate for that? Do you have one? I sent this to you.

• 44:23Speaker 01

  I mean, I think there's some guys where it's like, what if James Harden just becomes Jose Calderon for a while? You know, what if he just becomes a pure caretaker, point guard, like I'm going to commit zero turnovers and have 12 assists a game. And it's like, I'm going to, I'm going to shift into a totally different kind of player, but I think he could do that if he wanted to.

• 44:39Bill Simmons?

  So he's like fun, old guy at a pickup game.

• 44:42Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 44:42Bill Simmons?

  But that's his NBA career for like four years. Just like, just super fun to play with.

• 44:46Speaker 01

  I think we talked about like, oh, the guys who can hang around a long time, like the Stephs or the LeBrons, for example. But if you can just be like a point guard who can manage the game and not have to move that fast in bursts. I think you can play a while if you would like.

• 44:59Bill Simmons?

  Mine was Carl Anthony Towns slowly morphing into a Sam Perkins, early 90s situation.

• 45:06Speaker 01

  I like that.

• 45:07Bill Simmons?

  Stretch five with some size, rebounding, not a lot much else. He's only making like 5 million a year. Better in experience. And then his second question was five year panic trade. Which young superstar will eventually be involved in the next shocking, we never thought he'd get traded move like KD, Luca, et cetera. This is clearly Palo would be the answer for this. I don't even know if it'd be that shocking, even though he's been playing better lately.

• 45:31Speaker 01

  He's been playing better and he's been playing like super well in kind of a simplified context. So I think that's the only thing about this question is of the young guys you would consider superstars. I just really don't see any of them being moved, you know, like your, your Wemby's, your Anthony Edwards's, your Cades or Tyrese Halliburton's. Like that's not happening. So yeah, I think Palo, the conversation will continue or Franz, if you prefer, like however you suss those guys out. I also have just come to accept, I don't have a reason for this. I don't have a mechanism that will force it to happen. But I've come to accept that the Sixers are just like not operating in a normal plane of existence. And so if you told me someone panicked and traded Tyrese Maxey, I'd be like, yeah, that sounds like a normal Sixers thing to me.

• 46:15Bill Simmons?

  Very fair. I would throw Evan Mobley in there too. As the kind of like, they trade him and then he puts on 15 pounds of muscle and all of a sudden goes up a level.

• 46:25Speaker 01

  Can we go back for a second to the weird career arc? Because there was one thing I was thinking about for the first time and it is, what is a 35 year old LaMelo Ball like? Like, who is that person?

• 46:37Bill Simmons?

  Like white chocolate on the Memphis Grizzlies in the mid, late 2000s?

• 46:43Bill Simmons?

  Just really embraced?

• 46:44Speaker 01

  Not even as a basketball player. Like, who is that person? Like, what happens to someone like LaMelo Ball when he has to reckon with the reality of his 30s? I just, I'm baffled by it.

• 46:54Bill Simmons?

  I can't wait to find out. Derek from Bloomington wants to know, how do tall players sleep on the road in hotels? A king bed, dimension wise, can only comfortably fit a seven foot four person sleeping diagonally. This means Wemby is sleeping diagonally with his feet two inches off the bed. Isn't he getting less than ideal rest every road game? All right, I made some, I sent some texts on this one to find out. And, uh, teams carry extenders for the hotel beds for the tall guys. And Wemby has a custom extender. That's what I found out.

• 47:23Speaker 01

  This is honestly great intel.

• 47:25Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, they don't want these guys sleeping badly. So they, they have like little extender things. So, never thought of it. Great question.

• 47:31Speaker 01

  See, 10 years ago, that was like an ESPN The Magazine feature and you just potted it out.

• 47:37Bill Simmons?

  Tim Keown's furious. This is from Hans. I'm not going to pretend to pronounce his last name, but it's O-N-G, O-N-J-A-N-W-E-S. He said, he found, he had the exact same reaction of finding out Bam scored 83 as he did to finding out Luca got traded. My brain breaks upon realizing the realness of it. I may never be the same. What other NBA moments were like that? So this is basically the craziest, wait, what happened NBA moments this century? And I'm gonna offer you the Luca trade Bam 83 and the Artest melee. I think are, it's almost like a three person Mount Rushmore. I think that's really it.

• 48:20Bill Simmons?

  I think those are the three where the reaction was the same, like thinking it was a joke.

• 48:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:28Bill Simmons?

  Wait, what? The Pistons went, the Pacers went in the stands? What happened? I think those are the three and I don't think there's a fourth one.

• 48:35Speaker 01

  The Pistons and the Bam one make particular sense because it's like, they, they're just happening in front of you. And so there's kind of not a way you can challenge the, the reality of that situation. Part of the Luke experiences we've all talked about was that initial wave of like, this can't be right. Right? Like we couldn't wrap our heads around it to a degree that it seemed like it had to be made up. The only other trade, honestly, that I remember having anything resembling that level of reaction to was when Allen Iverson got traded to the Nuggets and it was just like, this feels so wrong on a fundamental level that they like, SportsCenter must be wrong, like they must be like misinformed about what has happened here. But that doesn't compare to the Luca trade.

• 49:15Bill Simmons?

  No, and he was in the trade rumors and like, we had no idea it was coming. The only, it's a smaller one, but I remember where it was when it happened. It was a Friday afternoon, two days before the Patriots lost to the Giants in the Super Bowl. And I was in Arizona with my dad and we're having a drink outdoors. And all of a sudden on the ticker, it flashed that the Lakers had acquired Pau Gasol from Memphis for Kwame Brown and Crittenden and a number one pick and Pau's then pretty fat brother. And, um, and we were just, it turned out to be the gem of the trade. And we were just like,

• 49:55Bill Simmons?

  what else was in the trade? And we're just watching the ticker and then the ticker would come. And this was pre being able to find out stuff on your phone, some texting people on my BlackBerry. It was like, there had to be more in the trade, right? And there just was nothing and that was the trade.

• 50:08Speaker 01

  Well, I think you've backdoored us into maybe the only other candidate, which is the Chris Paul to the Lakers trade getting canceled by David Stern.

• 50:16Bill Simmons?

  That's the fourth one. You're right. We got to, I wrote back to back columns and back to back days for Grantland about that. You're right. The canceled trade is the fourth one.

• 50:24Speaker 01

  Truly trippy stuff.

• 50:25Bill Simmons?

  See, Rob Mahoney. That's why you're the best. Uh, two more and then we're done. These are both LeBron related. We're doing great time. We got Tate and Kyle coming in one second. Ben Mout wants to know. He's a conspiracy theorist for us. LeBron is behind the let's shorten the season push because if it's successful, his records will never be broken.

• 50:44Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 50:45Bill Simmons?

  I will never, I'll forever be in the MJ camp, but if I found out LeBron was making this push, it would cement him as the greatest strategist chess player of all time and could be a new category in the GOAT debate. Um, he's definitely not pushing for this because, uh, I felt this way for a while and so have some others, but I loved it. That'd be amazing if he was like, if he was like working behind the scenes for a 70 game season. Cause that would, that'd be it. He would own every record forever.

• 51:09Speaker 01

  How did Michael Jordan not do this? Like someone with a true burn it all down mentality? Like I think LeBron actually, I think he does like care to a degree about being a caretaker of the sport.

• 51:19Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 51:20Speaker 01

  But like a real gunner, like a real ruthless, like ruthless competitor who would want to hold on to all that stuff for their whole lives. I could actually see it.

• 51:27Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. This, that's a Michael Corleone godfather to move.

• 51:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:32Bill Simmons?

  Okay. Last question from Edward Bender. You've talked recently about LeBron's destination next, next season, mentioned Golden State as a likely landing spot. I still like that one, by the way. You've also talked about this being the final year of Steve Kerr's contract with the Warriors. What if Lacob hired LeBron to be the player coach for the Warriors? I'll have Bill Russell with the Celtics in the last three years. By the way, I think player coaches are illegal, but uh,

• 51:54Speaker 01

  I think so.

• 51:54Bill Simmons?

  Hold that to the side for a second. It'd bring a ton of attention to the team. LeBron's a basketball genius. We haven't had a viable player coach really since Russell. For LeBron, it would be another legacy burnishing achievement. Um, I'm not a salary cap expert, but maybe there would be some salary cap stuff that would help. To me, Steph is the biggest hurdle. Who says no? Would Steph want to do this? I got really excited about this idea. This really would be like, if, if you're in like a lifelong eternal battle with, with basically Jordan and Russell and Kareem for who's the best player of all time. LeBron's at the point, he needs to start adding stuff to the arsenal. Russell has this amazing player coach thing that he did the last three years. He won two titles,

• 52:36Bill Simmons?

  playing 48 minutes a game and coaching, which really should be mentioned, I think, even more prominently when people talk about him. LeBron just doing that, doing a good job with the Warriors, would it would it would not flip it, but it would, I don't know, tweak it a little bit, right?

• 52:52Speaker 01

  If LeBron won one more title and one-

• 52:55Bill Simmons?

  As player coach.

• 52:56Speaker 01

  As player, and let's, let's throw coach of the year in there. Cause if obviously if they win, I think he'd win coach of the year too. Does, does, would that make him the GOAT? If he won one more with an active coach of the year, as you're saying, a really singular achievement that is technically not legal, but if anyone was gonna make it legal, if LeBron went to Adam Silver and said, I really wanna be a player coach for my final NBA season.

• 53:17Bill Simmons?

  Change your rules.

• 53:18Speaker 01

  I think they would just change it. I really do.

• 53:20Bill Simmons?

  I think they would too. He could coach Draymond, right? Draymond's the one, he's the one person Draymond seems to have real reverence for. Him and Steph together, maybe you get Jimmy Butler coming back, maybe you get one more old guy. You're basically like, you're the expendables.

• 53:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:35Bill Simmons?

  It's like the Slaught alone movie. You're like, guys, it's just, it's the old guys. We're gonna make a run here and I'm gonna coach the team.

• 53:42Speaker 01

  Al Horford suiting up for the second half of the season, ready to roll it back out. Let's do it.

• 53:46Bill Simmons?

  I got genuinely excited about this. I don't know if he'd wanna do it. And then I was trying to think, how could somebody, could we have a player coach? Not the way people coach games now, right? In the NBA, like Missoula's, like people like that, these guys are maniacs, but maybe the zag is, we're spending too much time trying to coach. Let's go back to the basics. Roll it out.

• 54:07Speaker 01

  Simplify.

• 54:08Bill Simmons?

  Let's not overthink this. Yeah, we have some great offensive players on our team. I don't know. I got excited about it.

• 54:13Speaker 01

  I think the more we talk about it, the more I really want it to happen. And it absolutely won't. And so thank you for cratering my hopes and dreams in real time on the spot.

• 54:21Bill Simmons?

  By the way, to circle back to an earlier question, this would be the fifth holy shit moment of the century.

• 54:26Speaker 01

  Wouldn't it?

• 54:27Bill Simmons?

  Like it comes out LeBron is the, gonna be the new player coach of the Golden State Warriors. But like, what?

• 54:32Speaker 01

  He's, so here's my question. If the Lakers, you know, say it didn't go well, LeBron is the player's coach. They decide to have a players only meeting. Is LeBron invited to the players only meeting?

• 54:41Bill Simmons?

  Great question. He's not. It's tough. It's tough to not be one of the guys anymore. But he'd have Draymond in there telling him everything that happened in the meeting, so it'd be fine. All right, Rob Mahoney, you can listen tomorrow on The Ringer NBA Show, which is also on Netflix, by the way. You're taping tomorrow morning and you're also on the Prestige TV podcast and I'll see you in the rewatchables in a couple of days. Sounds good, Bill. Thanks so much. Thanks, Rob. We're gonna take a break, come back with Tate and Kyle. This episode of the Bill Simmons Podcast is presented by Sam's Club. It is that time of the year when you just gotta get in your car and go somewhere. I've done that plenty of times in my life. Nowhere gets you ready to go. Quite like Sam's Club. Snacks, the gear, super low prices on gas. They got a bunch of stuff that keep you and the whole crew rolling.

• 55:22Bill Simmons?

  And here's what you gotta do. You gotta join the club of Yes End at sam'sclub.com/yesend. You must be 18 years or older to purchase a membership, but membership is subject to qualifications. Visit sam'sclub.com/yesend for details. This episode is brought to you by Venmo. Supporting your team never gets old, but here's something new. You can now pay for your game day wings and rep your team at the same time. How? By getting your college colors on your card. Score more with the college branded Venmo debit card. Get up to 5% cash back with Venmo Stash. Sign up at venmo.com/collagecard. The Venmo Mastercard is issued by the Bancorp Bank, N.A.

• 56:08Bill Simmons?

  Select schools available. Venmo/Bundled terms and exclusions apply at venmo.me/stashterms. Max $100 cash back per month. All right, Tate Frazier, Jay Kyle Mann, they are here to talk March Madness with us. They just sent me the brackets because I was doing the mailbag with Rob and I couldn't see. And my guy Acuff is in the four spot in the West with number one Arizona. I'm just furious. I'm so upset. Why can't they give us good things? Why couldn't they have paved the way for some sort of run? This is terrible.

• 56:41Speaker 02

  This is the wrong attitude, Bill. If you're gonna be on this island, this is an opportunity for Darius to just do some scorched earth and establish and plant a flag, man. We're not afraid. We don't run. Let's do this.

• 56:53Bill Simmons?

  But I have the other flag for Burris potentially being the number five pick from Arizona. These are competing corners. I don't have enough flags, Tate.

• 57:02Speaker 03

  Maybe winner gets the number five pick. Maybe that's the way that you look at it. Sweet 16, whoever wins, that's the number five pick.

• 57:08Bill Simmons?

  That's great. So before we get to some of the madness, Tate, who was the biggest winner this weekend, player or team for you?

• 57:15Speaker 03

  I think Arizona's the biggest winner because Arizona did not get the number one overall seed. But if you look at the bracket, the East is just kind of a gauntlet there for Duke. I mean, they have to basically deal with Dan Hurley potentially as their number two seed. Obviously, that's turned into a bit of a rivalry. They both try to claim Madison Square Garden. They also got Rick Pitino and the Johnnys sitting there as a five seed. That's a tough five seed. They got Tom Izzo and Michigan State staring them down as well. So they just have a lot of tough teams. It's the blue blood bracket there in the East. So that's a tough draw for Duke. And then if you look at Arizona, they got a pretty clear path. And we might have a situation where if Arizona, Gonzaga end up in the Elite Eight, we get the master versus the protege there with Tommy Lloyd versus Mark Fuse. So

• 57:57Speaker 03

  pretty good matchup there for Gonzaga and a pretty good spot for Arizona as well.

• 58:02Bill Simmons?

  What do you have, Kyle? Same winner or somebody else?

• 58:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, I agree with Tate. I mean, the most interesting thing here from the draft standpoint is we have, you know, your eyeballs go immediately to the potential Kansas-Duke thing. I mean, if Peterson comes out and if Peterson goes on, speaking of scorched earth and making tournament statements going into the draft, I mean, if Peterson comes back and, you know, plays really well in that matchup. A big thing for Duke, we should mention is, you know, they're down Caleb Foster. Tate seems to have some optimism. They're gonna have to win, Tate, to get him back. I mean, you know, they're gonna have to be in the tournament. And then, you know, Patrick Ngungba, who's a big guy for them, who's good, we'll see if he's back and ready to go. So pretty, pretty testing, challenging bracket for them, even though they, you know, they won the ACC, but it's a challenging pod for them, for sure.

• 58:47Bill Simmons?

  All right, enough Martinis talk. No, just kidding. But I do want to talk A. Cuff because can we just get A. Cuff out of the way now?

• 58:53Speaker 03

  Can we give you some credit, Bill? You've been watching a lot of college basketball. You've been texting this during Champ Week. So I just wanted to put that out for the people. If anyone's disrespected you, you are watching the game. So salute to you.

• 59:04Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I mean, one key, so I watched, I watched that week. But then yesterday I thought I was going to be missing stuff because I was supposed to hang out with my wife. Randomly not feeling well. So I'm like, how about this? Why don't we watch something on the, you know, the three TVs? Give me the two on the left and you could just watch whatever you want. And we'll just hang out all day and with the dogs and it'll be great. And I watched an insane amount of basketball. But I saw every Arkansas game, Friday, Saturday, Sunday.

• 59:31Bill Simmons?

  A. Cuff, his best game was today. Because he wasn't really that good yesterday. But I, you know, playing these three 40 minute games, back to back to back, Friday, Saturday, Sunday is pretty brutal. You know, especially you're trying to play for. So I got a little worried yesterday with him. Today, I'm willing to say it. I don't know if anyone else has pointed their flag on this. He's starting to look a little Kyrie-ish to me. And I know that's sacrilege. Kyrie is like the one of one, one of the most skilled guards we've ever had. Ambidextrous, incredible finisher, just like the guy you would create in a lab. There's stuff A. Cuff does, Tate, that just makes me think of Kyrie as I'm watching him. Is that crazy?

• 1:00:10Speaker 03

  No, I don't think it's crazy. I saw a lot of people talking about Allen Iverson, right? I mean, you got like the Baron Davis comp. I mean, obviously not as explosive. Steve Francis also, like, there's a lot of guards in the early 2000s that I feel like come to mind. Some of the smaller guards. But as far as being a chameleon, I feel like that's what A. Cuff is. In a game, he can be an engine for you. He can be a creator for you. He can be a spot up shooter for you. And offensively, he just put on a masterclass. I think the real thing and the real knock for A. Cuff, and I'm sure Kyle will talk about this as well, is defensively, there was a couple of times where he had the matador defense where Duke Miles, he's just like, yeah, you go ahead and score. So I can get the ball back. I think that's a fair point. Yeah, that's fair to bring up. But as far as, if you just watch him on the offensive end, it's incredible to watch.

• 1:00:51Speaker 03

  And for Calipari of all people, and obviously he champions his guys quite a bit, but he's been.

• 1:00:57Speaker 02

  Pretty fair in the sense that like he is in a top tier of the group of guards that he's had and that's saying a lot when you go through all those guards Jamal Murray, SGA, John Wall, Derrick Rose, the list goes on. So for him to be in that conversation says a lot about A. Cuff. And if you watch him, it's just incredible to watch. And you mentioned his fatigue. I mean, he really wasn't tired at all. He just kept going and going and he was great down the stretch.

• 1:01:17Bill Simmons?

  You know, Kyle, one of the things with him, the reason I kept thinking of the Kyrie thing is he really can run a team, but then also be the scorer, but then go back to running the team. And he's like an old school point guard where we talk a lot with the NBA guys like that. The guard position is just kind of, kind of melted away. And I look at somebody like Darius Garland. It's like, that's kind of the old, old school point guard that I grew up with. And we just don't have a lot of these anymore. And if anything, there's more like zero guards or more like the Russell Westbrook types. A. Cuff's like an old school. I can either set guys up or I can get my own thing. And I think he can finish in traffic. The defense is obviously not awesome. But, you know, it's not like Kyrie was an incredible

• 1:02:00Bill Simmons?

  defender. But I, the question for me is the size and do, are we just moving into this world with OKC and San Antonio and the Celtics where everybody just wants bigger guards? And that's why he's going to fall back?

• 1:02:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, you hit it when we were talking about him this, this weekend. It's kind of like you can love a player and then, but you have to run it through that, that test, that gauntlet, that prism of like, are they going to be able to play against San Antonio and OKC, both of these teams? I mean, even you go into like the Pistons, a lot of these, the Celtics, these teams have big, physical, switchy defenders at the, in the, in the backcourt. And it's, it's tough. It's, it's a tough time. You know, the thing for me is I hear, you hear a lot of comps. When I watch A. Cuff, when I initially watched him, my first thought was just like, you can tell this guy has old point guards in his life because he just has.

• 1:02:48Bill Simmons?

  Like Kyrie.

• 1:02:50Speaker 02

  He just has this, this sanity and this, this sense for, he sees levers within the game that other players don't see. I've noticed like he can see like the defense is doing this. If I do this, if I do this action, he'll tell us. He's pointing all the time. And Tate and I have talked about this a lot. I mean, This Arkansas team, I do not know where they would be without him. He is like the smartest player on their team, obviously, but he just kind of directs traffic. They were one of the best transition teams and most efficient and prolific in the country. And a lot of that is because of him. He hits it ahead just relentlessly. He never, ever leaves that on the table. For the comps, though, getting to that, I mean, I really don't see the Derrick Rose, Iverson, Incendiary Speed type guys for him. I see a cerebral game manager in

• 1:03:33Speaker 02

  the vein of a CP3, except for, I just don't see, yeah, he's somebody, the defense, it reminds me, when I see him do those Matador plays, it reminds me of my high school coach just burned into my brain because I was an awful defender, big shock at my build, but I could just hear him going, "Olay, Kyle, man, olay!" And that's what I think of whenever I watch Darius Ako. But man, he carried one of the biggest usage rates in the country and was just like zero waste. You know, that's just how smart he is, knew when to pick his spots. And yeah, he absolutely showed out today.

• 1:04:03Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, there's some Kyrie, some CP3. I like, like, some of the best parts of those guys.

• 1:04:09Speaker 02

  Darren Williams, maybe. I've heard Darren Williams, a little Glenn.

• 1:04:11Bill Simmons?

  I like that he gets stats, as dumb as that sounds. These are 40-minute games, and you're just like, yeah, here's, I put up 32 and 11 today. Like, that's not nothing. And, you know, and even though we have the three-point shot, little pace, stuff like that, but him versus Fleming, Fleming State, the Houston guard, who has been in the number five spot for the last two months, and I don't see it. I don't understand. If you're gonna just go those two guys against, there's another guy I could see in that spot that we were texting about today, but I don't see the Flemings versus him with the advantage going to Flemings. So where do you stand on that?

• 1:04:47Speaker 03

  I love Flemings. I love his game, but I think, you know, it's tough when you have the smaller guards. And I think there's kind of a group of four, right? Burries is in that group, Mikel Brown, Mikel Brown is in that group. Bruce Pro just called him Markel Brown on the broadcast, so maybe that's his new nickname.

• 1:05:01Speaker 02

  Bruce's accuracy was all over the place.

• 1:05:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, Bill, you missed it. Bruce was on fire today. He also did a nice stump speech for his son not being in the tournament and tried to call out the committee chair. He's becoming quickly the Bronny James of coaching Stephen Pearl. It's not his fault, but it's happening in real time.

• 1:05:17Speaker 02

  Can you imagine if Ben was coaching a college team and didn't get in the tournament? Can you imagine what Bill would be like?

• 1:05:24Bill Simmons?

  But Bruce Pearl's pretty, I mean, his approval rating's pretty low at this point, isn't it? It's dubious, yeah.

• 1:05:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, it depends on the camp you talk to, you know what I mean? Like, he can be very gregarious, but back to Flemings, I mean, I'm a fan of Flemings. He has the scoring prowess. There's the times where he has the defensive lapses as well. I think it's great that he plays for Coach Sampson. I think Kelvin Sampson's done a really good job of getting him to learn how to play team defense. That's something that will translate. His own ball pressure has gotten better as the year has kind of waned on. But when you look at him versus Acuff, I mean, there's games that you can point to, but Acuff hasn't had less than 17 points this season. If you go all the way back through his games, so like, even when he doesn't play great, he still gets the bottom line number of points. And I think there's some games where Flemings, even he said it, in the championship game against Arizona, him and Snack didn't quite show up. So there's some times he has that. He can be a little Houdini. So I understand

• 1:06:16Speaker 03

  why Acuff has kind of jumped him into general consciousness right now.

• 1:06:20Bill Simmons?

  Well, and you have the Arizona guard, and then you have Kyle Sky, who, if you just go and you watch the YouTube clip of his 45-point game against some crap team where they're up 30, but it's like, he just looks like the all-time most NBA player-ish guy out of all of these guys. I don't know. I think it's going to bounce around. Do you think, Kyle, that the March Madness, like, the next two weeks is going to affect the draft possibilities with these guys at all? Because I feel like, I don't say this every year, but I think this year, I think it could swing some stuff.

• 1:06:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, if you just look at the order, I mean, this, it's, I don't think Kingston is as solid at four or five as he's been in a while. I think it's kind of come into question lately, and I think the Burries conversation, like we were talking about, and we can get into him in more detail. I think, and then, you know, Michael actually started higher in the year, and he kind of got dinged as it went along, but...

• 1:07:12Speaker 03

  He was the five, yeah.

• 1:07:14Speaker 02

  So I think it's really in flux. Like, I don't think it's really super set at all. You know, speaking of the Kingston thing, Kingston is, I like him a lot. It's just like what you were talking about. He has, people swear that he's like 6'4". I've never got to stand next to him, but when you look, when you look at him, you're like, optically, it just doesn't. He's got narrow shoulders, and he just seems... He seems small, but Kingston is super, he's probably the fastest player in the draft. I would say he reminds me of Maxi at times and the fact that he just blitzes, blitzes, blitzes. He's a really good passer. I think it speaks to Kingston's, you know, character and credit, though, that he came into a team that had two returning back four players from a team that went to the national championship game. And he came in and just kind of took

• 1:07:56Speaker 02

  over the, over the main spot there and ran that team. But he's, he just needed to be more consistent.

• 1:08:01Speaker 04

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• 1:08:27Speaker 05

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• 1:09:26Speaker 06

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• 1:09:31Speaker 04

  I'm pro football Hall of Famer Brian Dawkins, and I lived for a long time with something I did not know the name of: major depressive disorder. I carry sadness and anger because I thought I could handle it alone, but I couldn't. Now I want to make sure others know that that support is out there. If you're experiencing similar symptoms, talk to a healthcare professional. Visit MDDAllies.com to watch my story.

• 1:09:57Speaker 05

  Paid partnership with Johnson & Johnson. Brian Dawkins has not prescribed Caplyta lumateperone.

• 1:10:09Speaker 06

  I needed more from my antidepressant. So my doctor added Caplyta, lumateperone, proven to provide greater relief from depression symptoms than an antidepressant alone, building on my progress without starting over. Caplyta is for adults with major depressive disorder when used with an antidepressant and is available by prescription only. Individual results may vary. In clinical trials, weight gain was not common.

• 1:10:29Speaker 05

  Elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. Caplyta is not approved for dementia-related psychosis. Call your doctor about new or sudden mood changes, behaviors, or suicidal thoughts right away. Antidepressants may increase these risks. Report fever, confusion, stiff muscles, which may be life-threatening, or uncontrolled muscle movements, which may be permanent. High cholesterol and weight gain may occur, as can high blood sugar, which may be fatal. Monitoring is recommended. Common side effects are sleepiness, dizziness, nausea, dry mouth, feeling tired, and diarrhea. These aren't all the side effects.

• 1:10:56Speaker 06

  Ask your doctor about Caplyta. Learn more at caplyta.com or call 888-252-4824.

• 1:11:02Bill Simmons?

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• 1:11:47Speaker 03

  College is awesome.

• 1:11:48Bill Simmons?

  We've had, no, but we've had so many years where, you know, it just seems so unfair to the NBA in so many different ways. I watched like Arizona, Duke, and Arkansas ironically, who somehow has lost eight times. But those, those were like real teams with like.

• 1:12:03Speaker 03

  Running real offense, great actions, great secondary actions. It used to be one action. Yeah, now they have like multiple actions within one possession.

• 1:12:11Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I was really impressed.

• 1:12:13Speaker 03

  High-quality play, yeah.

• 1:12:15Bill Simmons?

  And then Arizona, basically has four first-round picks. And the guy who's, if you didn't know anything, you were like, who's the best guy in this team? You would've said the point guard. Who is like gonna be a midnight second round pick and I'm sure he's gonna end up on Miami and he'll have like a 10 year career.

• 1:12:29Speaker 02

  It's always Miami. We always, it's something deep seated about Miami.

• 1:12:33Bill Simmons?

  I know, can't believe it. But it's, it just felt like a more mature product this year. And I don't know if it was a product of, it's just like, this is a fluke, awesome class or what? What do you think? What do you think, Tate?

• 1:12:44Speaker 03

  Well, I was gonna say, just kind of a mix of like the European guys who were coming in. You also have this great freshman class, which is getting compared to like the 1981 class, right? Which anytime you're talking like Mullens, Jordan, Olajuwon, I mean, that's a ridiculous group to be in, you know, conversation with. And then you also add in the fact that these guys who are veterans are coming back because they're getting paid to come back. A guy like Jaden Bradley decides to come back and have more of a role after Caleb Love goes to the NBA. So I mean, you mix those three pockets together. You got a triple threat of good basketball and also the coaches have a little bit more leeway with these guys because it is professionalized at this point. So I think you add it all together. It's been a nice mix. And I, I've seen some people even pointing out the fact that they've enjoyed the product so much more. Cause a lot of people, as you know, Bill, come in and march parachute in, but it seems like the parachuters are having fun. Yeah, finally, we need it.

• 1:13:29Bill Simmons?

  You know what part of this is Kyle? And the All-Star game is like this too. You, you really just need guards that know what they're doing. And a lot of years with college, like even Purdue, it was so much fun. By the way, that he, he is, he, their point guard is absolutely 100% ending up on like Indiana, San Antonio. I'm sure Brad Stevens is gonna like try to figure out how to steal him, but you just can tell he's gonna end up on a good team. They'll be like, ha, ha, they took them 37th. They're so stupid. And then he'll have like a 12 year career. But Kyle, so many guards that kind of just know what the fuck they're doing this year, which to me seems unusual. I don't feel like that's, that's been the case that much in college anymore.

• 1:14:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, especially if you look at the, look at it through the lens of the lottery. I mean, we have a lot more guards. Like we've said, there's not, there aren't as many wings that are kind of being pushed up into that level. Um, but yeah, the guard quality and to speak to the quality of college basketball, it's just guys are incentivized to stay. Um, and, and I think something that's really helped too is, you know, we do have the guards, but if you look at the top teams and the, it, it, there's a return to kind of a traditional vibe in college basketball where. All the best teams are big. If you look at Michigan, if you look at Florida, if you look at Duke, I mean, just down the line, these, they all have solid front courts. Some of them even, there are nights where I'm just like, God, I wonder if this team could like kill the Wizards inside or something like Michigan on some nights. I'm just saying, not that, of course Bam proved that that's, you know, anything's possible.

• 1:14:53Speaker 02

  But yeah, I mean, just the, the depth of the talent, getting guys to come back, I think is kind of the driving force in my opinion. In addition to a good class, like you mentioned Arizona, like I was mentioning, I was saying like Karchinkov for them is like their, what, fifth dude? And I think he could play 10 years in the NBA. Like he's a good player.

• 1:15:11Bill Simmons?

  So when we look at a big picture, and I want, I want to talk about Burris a little bit too in a second, but when we look at big picture, because the, the question you guys are going to get over the next four days is who should I pick? Who should I bet on? Who's your favorite? Who's your sleeper? So we'll go, who do you think is actually going to win? Who would, who would surprise you the least? If they won, who is it taking?

• 1:15:36Speaker 03

  I gotta take a deep breath before I say it. Duke is an Indy team. Duke is one in 2010. Duke is one in 2015. I do feel like this Duke team got a really tough draw, but I think it makes the story even better if they get out of Greenville. They lost in Greenville last time they were there, 2017, lost to Cendarius Thornwell. You remember that South Carolina team, really tough.

• 1:15:54Speaker 02

  That was fun.

• 1:15:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's, that's a place that they haven't had great history, but if they survive Greenville, they'll have, you know, obviously North Carolina fans pulling against them. They had that in the ACC Tournament as well. They're both in Greenville this time. But I just feel like this Duke team, especially with Gongba being back, they need the rim protection. I think he will be back and help them with the rim protection. And Cam Boozer's never lost. Like this guy has never, ever lost in his life. And I do think that matters at some level. And even in the ACC Tournament, Virginia had him on their heels. It felt like, wow, Virginia's going to win this game. And then they just found a way. And Caden Boozer, who has stepped in for Caleb Foster, has really done a good job. And Cam was the one that got him involved in the game. He got him an open three early. He knows where his spots are. They had this twin connection with each other. So I think like, if I just open up on the

• 1:16:38Speaker 03

  day of the national championship and Duke wins and they beat Arizona in the championship game, that feels like inevitable at this point.

• 1:16:44Bill Simmons?

  I was psyched for the brother.

• 1:16:45Speaker 02

  Right? Yeah.

• 1:16:46Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Yeah. It's just gonna.

• 1:16:48Speaker 03

  I'm passing out. Yeah.

• 1:16:50Bill Simmons?

  I was psyched for the brother because, you know, they, we've been, these guys have been in our lives since what? Seventh grade, sixth grade? And they've always been a tandem. And it was always like, Cam's the better one. You know, when you're like, yeah, that my brother's the better one. I'm not you always. I was kind of subconsciously root for the other one, but I thought he had some good moments. Kyle, who, who, who would be the least surprising to win the title?

• 1:17:11Speaker 02

  Uh, I mean, I'm leaning towards Arizona right now. We'll, we'll see if Jaden Bradley is like hobbled, but they just have everything. I mean, they've got rim protection. They've got shooting. They've got experience. They've got, you know, Koah Pete has been, you know, up and down. He's a guy that, you know, his flirt has been in and out of the lottery. In the beginning of the year, he was higher up. So he has a little bit to prove and he's a winner too. Yeah. You know, that's been, that was one of the big things going into the year was who's, who's more of a winner, Koah Peter, Cam Boozer. But to speak to what Tate's talking about with, with Duke, I think another, uh, you know, next factor here is, you know, yeah, Kayden is being underestimated, but defensively, man, it like the three, four spot. Duke is tough. They got Dame Sar, who's a, who's a kid who came in an international kid, uh, very, very

• 1:17:54Speaker 02

  long, could be a high pick, end up having a surge late in the process. And then Malik Brown, very, very physical, three, four guy who, who's a great passer and really physical. So, but I'm going to pick Arizona at this point because I just think they have everything.

• 1:18:07Bill Simmons?

  I have Arizona as well, just from what, what I really was watching this weekend. They just seemed like, almost like a junior NBA team to me. They had everything you want and Burries who I just feel, you know, he was, he had a great run in LA. There's a good, there's a good, uh, I think he won the title, but he had like a massive game in the title game, but just, you know, and it wasn't like, I think he was a top 10 guy on all the lists and all that stuff. It's not like he's a surprise, but he's the guy when we're talking about the draft, because there's just too many guards and not, I just don't think all of these teams are going to need guards in the NBA draft. And he's the guy that I think could have a chance to go fourth or fifth because he's got more size. He's just a prototypical like two guard,

• 1:18:50Bill Simmons?

  can swing. I could see him on all these different teams and I think there's a little extra there in the bigger games too with him. So that, that he's probably a, probably, he's like, what? Ninth, ninth on the list now, Kyle? About that eighth, ninth range?

• 1:19:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, people have had him in that like nine through or like eight through 15 range. But I, I look at him and I'm just, there, there are major Kason Wallace 2023 vibes with, with this guy. Where same age, you know, we're, we're about the same age in the process. He's a little older than the other guys. I just think, I just think that there's a possibility that teams are going to be reaching for the shiny thing. With going for these upside guards like the Mikels or the Kingston's or, you know, Keaton Wogler shooting or A Cuff. And then you've just got this, his out, high outcomes might not be as like tempting as some of those guys, but he's just steady. And he plays for a team that's, that he fit into a role and just, and he doesn't really have a big time weakness. He guards, he plays both ways. He's got good size to, to guard both positions.

• 1:19:49Speaker 02

  I just think that he's a winning, he's a winning player. He reminds me, it reminds me a lot of the Kason Wallace thing. It really does.

• 1:19:55Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I'm excited to see what happens with them next two weeks. Cause I was texting you guys about how we always do this with the draft where you just rank the guys like with the potential. But when we actually get to the draft and it gets to a team like Utah's picking fifth and it's, they're just not going to want a point guard. Like they're, they're kind of committed to Kante George at this point. What they could really need is a two guard or a wing or, you know, and sometimes these guys move around. Tate, what's your biggest sleeper?

• 1:20:21Speaker 03

  Biggest sleeper, I mean, Arkansas is definitely in the mix. Uh, I really like what A Cuff could do. I would call him a Kimba candidate, so I would throw them out there. I think Gonzaga I would watch out for just in the West. I know that we love Arizona, but Gonzaga's fallen off like the national conversation a little bit. And this team, Mark Few, I don't know how many more years he has a head coach in waiting right now. And I do feel like Gonzaga has to win one championship. They, they've just been so due. And last time we were in Indy, we remember Gonzaga undefeated. They go there to the national championship game. They're playing Baylor, Scott Drew's Baylor team with those three guards. Uh, just completely Davion Mitchell, I mean, physically just overwhelmed them. Uh, you know, Corey Kispert and those guys. So I think they might have a little bit of redemption.

• 1:21:01Speaker 03

  So I, I am concerned about Arizona in that stretch and also Arizona just has to get over the mental hurdle of getting there. So that's another team I would throw into the mix and, uh, you know, I mean, I'm going down the line. I have to bring them up because I love them so much. What if Rick Pitino just did it? What if Rick Pitino just knocked off Duke? He just went to the final four.

• 1:21:20Speaker 02

  Drinking a beer.

• 1:21:23Bill Simmons?

  Walking through the door speech. Finally, finally turns around.

• 1:21:27Speaker 03

  I just would love that storyline. I mean, he was having a great time in the Big East Tournament. They win it. He seems like he's like having the best euphoric moment of his career right now. He's kind of swooning a little bit. So, uh, I don't know. I, I, I still like the Johnnies. I do see their problems and I see their issues and obviously they can't play as physical as they, as they did against UConn, against a lot of teams with the officiating in the NCAA tournament, but that would be an incredible storyline if Vampire Rick Pitino knocked off Duke.

• 1:21:52Bill Simmons?

  I was hoping you were going to say Pennsylvania and TJ Power. After their electrical performance today. What a game. The Ivy League final. Who knew? That was so much fun. So Power went to Duke. He was Duke and like a pretty high recruit, right? Wasn't he like?

• 1:22:07Speaker 03

  Five star. Yeah. Went to Duke, went to Virginia. I think he scored 35 points in his career at Virginia and he had 44 today in the Ivy League final. So, uh, what a turn for him.

• 1:22:18Speaker 02

  Some people put it together late. I thought he was going to be really good. I was, I was shocked by him, but.

• 1:22:22Bill Simmons?

  He was a beast in that game. Kyle, who's your sleeper?

• 1:22:26Speaker 02

  Uh, in terms of, well, I was going to tack on to what Tate was saying there with, I, I, if we could get AJ DeBansa versus Gonzaga, I think that could be pretty fun. If we could get, you know, an Inachinte and tie on Grant Foster, just that would be a really interesting statement game for them. But I, you know, I'm looking at this and I'm just, I'm seeing, gosh, I mean, I don't really like anybody out of the lower left side of the bracket. UConn is sitting right there. I could see them making a run in that bracket, you know, um, and then, but Arkansas is another team that they could lose in the second round or they can make a run to the final four. That team, it could go either way. So UConn though is a team that Tate and I, they're kind of our zombie team.

• 1:23:07Speaker 02

  I feel like anytime you think UConn's dead, Danny Hurley's got that intensity. I think that they could make a run.

• 1:23:13Bill Simmons?

  Well, and they also have a guy who's going to be the lottery pick, seems like it, who's averaging like 12 points a game? I don't know what's going on there.

• 1:23:20Speaker 03

  Braylon Mullens.

• 1:23:21Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, do you like Braylon Mullens?

• 1:23:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, good shooter. I think that it would be really good for him to come back for another year. I don't know how Kyle feels about that. I just think he's kind of been projected in this lottery space. But if Braylon Mullens was given the keys of the offense, he had a full, healthy year. I think we'd see him completely unlock. Eric Ryba, who's another guy that he came in with. I think those two guys playing together, that would be a lot of fun for Hurley. And we forget, I mean, last year, UConn should have, I mean, not should have, but they could have easily beaten Florida.

• 1:23:48Bill Simmons?

  They came this close.

• 1:23:48Speaker 03

  Very close to beating Florida, and they dominated the tournament two years in a row. So Dan Hurley and his offense has been tough to stop for anybody, especially game planning for UConn. It's one thing for the first game, it's for the, the second game. And once you get into the tournament, when you have to scout this team, it's really tough. Their actions are layered. We've talked about that a lot, Kyle and I, just how, how good of stuff that they run. Luke Murray, shout out to him for putting some of that stuff together. So I just think UConn's gonna be a tough out for anybody. And Dan Hurley has a chip on his shoulder, and anytime he does, he leads the country and he's gonna get teed up or do something insane, which is also great. Um, that's why Fran McCaffrey being in the tournament is awesome. Patino, like, we have a lot of good characters.

• 1:24:26Bill Simmons?

  Don't forget the UCLA coach, she's a maniac.

• 1:24:29Speaker 03

  Are you raising your voice at me?

• 1:24:32Speaker 03

  Greatest press conference moment of the year.

• 1:24:34Bill Simmons?

  We do have, it seems like a higher concentration of crazy coaches than we've had in a while, or like, character coaches, like what, kind of what we had in the eighties. Yeah, when I, I think of like, the amount of like, good teams we have, interesting teams, guys who could just take over a game, you know, and put up like 30, 33, 35 upset potential. Uh, we didn't really talk about the Darren Peterson X-factor part of this too. What happens if he's just fucking awesome in these playoffs? What happens if he looks like young Kobe all of a sudden for two weeks? Cause there's been, Kyle, I know you've been monitoring, there's been signs, it's better than it was, right?

• 1:25:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, he's, he's, it's been up and down all year. He's been slowly kind of trying to acclimate. I really think, you know, if you circle him back here, I mean, Kansas is also another sleeper there. Their highs have been very, very high. I mean, they beat, they beat Arizona when they were humming. I mean, they kind of owned them. I mean, they, they've had some, they can beat anybody. They've also, you know, their motivation and their consistency has been up and down, but they could get hot. Tate, I mean, you could see this. I mean, also, could this be the Bill Self, there's, there are whispers of that, that this could be the, the Bill Self swan song. He could have that in the air, just, you know, go out there, do one for the Gipper, one last one. I could see them making a run. Yeah.

• 1:25:51Bill Simmons?

  So scared to be deprived of his great coaching if he decides to leave. That'll be tough.

• 1:25:56Speaker 02

  I wanted you to let this one fly. Go ahead, go ahead.

• 1:25:59Bill Simmons?

  I really miss his chess master routine. What do you think, Tate?

• 1:26:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, I like this five. I like their five. I worry about their depth. Like when they have to lean on El Marco Jackson, you saw that when they benched Bryson Tiller and they had to kind of go away from their starting five because, you know, Bill Self was trying to send a message to Tiller, I guess, in the Big 12 tournament. Maybe that was a lesson learned. But Counsel's a guy who's, who can get really hot. We saw him against NC State this year. He hit like, from what I remember, like 10 threes, maybe more. It was just a ridiculous performance. So when you have Counsel there, Darren Peterson seems to be loved by his teammates. There was a little bit of a strange period there, but he's won them back over, you know? Like, he won them back, which is good. And then Trey White's like the perfect X factor in the NCAA tournament. Does all the dirty work, can hit big shots for you. And then you got Badunga, who's one of the best rim protectors in college basketball. So, I mean, they kind of check all the boxes. I just worry

• 1:26:48Speaker 03

  about their depth. If you get Badunga in foul trouble, that's kind of the recipe to beat them.

• 1:26:52Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I asked you guys about him like a month ago because I was like, this is just a classic. He's going to be the 47th pick in the draft and end up on some team playing 25 minutes a game. We were like, what happened? Oh, he's two inches too short. So 30 teams in a row passed on him. I, I think there's so many fun subplots this year. And there's so many good ways this could go. So I'm not going to get my hopes up too much, but you know, Louisville, I think has my, not Louisville, Arkansas, I think has, has my heart this year. I think I've watched them the most. I'm the most intrigued by.

• 1:27:24Speaker 03

  You love Cal. You're just a Cal guy.

• 1:27:26Bill Simmons?

  I do, and I know, I know it's looming. And I know, I know the Cal crazy collapse when he gets too tense and that he'll probably screw the second half up or one of these games. But I honestly think talent wise, I think they can hang with any of these teams. And they have a guy who will be completely unafraid on the biggest stage to, to do his thing. So he's one, I think Peterson qualifies for that, too. AJ is going to be a fucking maniac, right? Like he'll, he'll just be, he'll be all 40.

• 1:27:56Speaker 02

  Six for 30. I don't know. Or he could go.

• 1:27:59Bill Simmons?

  He's not coming out.

• 1:28:00Speaker 02

  40, yeah.

• 1:28:01Bill Simmons?

  He's going to be like, he's going to have seven coffees.

• 1:28:05Speaker 02

  Not allowed, I don't think in the BYU honor code, but yeah.

• 1:28:08Bill Simmons?

  Is that true?

• 1:28:10Speaker 03

  He's just drinking sodas, dirty sodas.

• 1:28:12Speaker 02

  Dirty sodas, yeah.

• 1:28:13Bill Simmons?

  Well, and then, and always fun to root against Duke, too, even though I kind of like the Boozer Twins. So it's fun to, uh.

• 1:28:18Speaker 03

  They're a likable duo. You know what I mean? Like, I can't even hate these guys. And defensively, they play such great defense as a team. That's really the reason why you believe in Duke. I mean, we could talk about, you know, Cam Boozer and everything else, but defensively, they're so good. And when they have Gongba, they really have no weakness because of Malik Brown and Damae Sarr. Like the ball pressure from Sarr, the, the deflections from Malik Brown. And then if they don't get it done, they have Gongba on the back end. So it's three levels of defense, which is tough to beat.

• 1:28:43Speaker 02

  I just like that I don't have to take it personally anymore when you, when you're ragging on Calipari. I used to just have to eat that forever. I'd just be like, God, Bill hasn't discovered Mark Pope yet. So that'll be a new mystery for me.

• 1:28:55Speaker 03

  I was gonna say, Cal, we're not even like on the map anymore. North Carolina, Kentucky.

• 1:29:01Speaker 02

  Tate and I had a very low time, Bill. It's a surprise that we're even in good spirits.

• 1:29:07Bill Simmons?

  The Caleb Wilson thing was

• 1:29:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:29:09Bill Simmons?

  That was devastating. I thought he, for some reason, I thought he was gonna come back and it's just apparently.

• 1:29:14Speaker 03

  He was coming back. He got hurt ramping up to come back, which is even sadder. You know what I mean? I got a text on the Wednesday. They're like, yeah, Caleb's getting ready for Duke on Saturday. I'm getting fired up. I'm texting my parents. I'm like, Caleb's coming back for Saturday. Get fired up. Then Thursday, I got like a sad face text and I'm like, oh no. What is, what does sad face mean? He's not gonna play on Saturday? It's like, no, he broke his thumb on the other hand and he's out for the season. So.

• 1:29:38Bill Simmons?

  You had this, this completely lovable, awesome, top four lottery pick who probably would have gotten better than it mattered. And you don't even get to root for him one time when it actually matters and he's gonna go to the NBA now.

• 1:29:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:29:49Bill Simmons?

  Kinda sucks. That's the rub with college. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Excitement is in the air. That's right. It's the start of NBA season. I can't wait to get together with friends, share some Michelob Ultras and watch Tip Off. Plus, as the official beer sponsor of the NBA, Michelob Ultra is getting you closer to the action with experiences that make you feel like you're courtside to actual courtside tickets. Enter now for a chance to win at michelobultra.com/courtside. Michelob Ultra Courtside 26 to 27. No purchase necessary. Opening US residents 21 plus. Begins on October 1st, 2026. Ends on June 30th, 2027. Multiple entry periods. See official rules at michelobultra.com/courtside for free entry, entry deadlines, prizes and details.

• 1:30:32Bill Simmons?

  This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Football has a play for just about everything. And whether it's a flea flicker or a tush push, you need a plan that fits your unique situation. That's why State Farm takes the time to get to know you so they can help personalize coverage for your life and for your budget. Now that's a solid game plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. I was thinking, by the way, I had this idea for college. No, no NIL money for the first two years. That would be my NIL fix.

• 1:31:02Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:31:03Bill Simmons?

  Stay for two years. Third year, lots of NIL money.

• 1:31:08Bill Simmons?

  So we get a little more stability with the jumping around. People probably hate that idea, but I was wondering like, what if you're just a student, a real student athlete for the first two years, then year three, you can cash in.

• 1:31:19Speaker 03

  I mean, it would be fascinating. If you put it into trust too, like what if you just had the money sitting in a trust?

• 1:31:24Speaker 02

  That's, that would be a wrinkle.

• 1:31:26Speaker 03

  And you couldn't touch it until if you were on the third year, then you could touch it, do whatever you want with it. But for the two years, it's just a cruise interest and it's sitting there. You kind of know what's going on.

• 1:31:34Bill Simmons?

  Play the, you'd have to get the third year to have it?

• 1:31:36Speaker 03

  Well, you still get it, you still get it regardless. You know what I mean? I guess you can still get it regardless if you go to the NBA. But if you come back for the third year, then you just get the money and then you can do whatever you want with it.

• 1:31:46Bill Simmons?

  I like that. All right. So Aikuff is my guy for the tournament. Who's your guy, Kyle, man?

• 1:31:50Speaker 02

  Oh, Lord. Uh, let's see.

• 1:31:52Bill Simmons?

  Do you have a guy? Have you officially adopted someone yet?

• 1:31:55Speaker 02

  Oh geez. I mean, I have a lot of guys. I have a lot of guys that I love to watch.

• 1:31:58Bill Simmons?

  No, you have to pick one. You're not going to list seven. Pick one. Who has your heart? Who's your guy? Pick a guy.

• 1:32:06Speaker 02

  I love LeBaron Fylon. I mean, he's been one of my favorite players.

• 1:32:08Bill Simmons?

  You didn't even mention him.

• 1:32:09Speaker 02

  He's probably going to be a late, a late lottery pick for Alabama, but Fylon and Aikuff have kind of, you know, he's, he's really, he's got kind of Mike Conley vibes. He's, he's a really tough as shit, kind of, uh, just a wiry kind of guard, but he can shoot the ball. He's wiggly, you know, he's competitive, he's smart. He's one of my favorite players.

• 1:32:28Bill Simmons?

  I'll tell you this, cause the draft's going to be stupid this year because there's too many point guards and not enough teams that need point guards. One of these guys is going to fall to like the 17th, 18th pick and it's going to immediately be a godsend. Some team that's actually like a playoff team, you know? Like, I'm trying to think who would be like seventh, like Charlotte. All the, like they have the 17th pick and it's like, oh, we'll take him. So there's just too many people at that position. Anyway, all right, Tate, who has your heart?

• 1:32:56Speaker 03

  I'm gonna go with Keaton Wogler for Illinois and this is a team. I just keep going back to Illinois. Wogler, I got to see him in person out here at the UCLA game. I just love the way he plays. I love the way he passes. He has shown some signs when teams get physical that he doesn't play so well and I can relate to that, you know? When there was a lot of ball pressure, I'm just like, this is not how I want to play. I'm like Devin Booker when he got double teamed. I'm like, we're doing double teams? Like, what are we doing? Yeah, that's Keaton Wogler's MO and I just like the way he plays. His Illinois offense is one of the best offenses in the country and one of the best offenses all time on Ken Palm. So like when they get going, they're a lot of fun. Love Brad Underwood. I am worried about their draw because they got TJ Power in the first round and probably VCU in the second round after they upset Carolina. So that could be tough for Illinois, but I buy into this team and I buy into Wogler. So that'll be my guy.

• 1:33:41Speaker 02

  Yours is Nate Ament, right, Bill? That's your guy, right?

• 1:33:44Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I don't, I don't want to be mean with college players, but that's the only one. There's, there's 10 guys and then there's a drop off. So I've done all my work on the 10 guys and Ament's the only one I don't get. He was the fourth ranked recruit. But I've just been there with these really tall ball handler, you know, kind of not strong guys. We've, we've failed with these guys as high lottery picks for 45 years. So maybe he'll convince me otherwise.

• 1:34:10Speaker 03

  He's gotten stronger at least, like because of Tennessee and the way they play, like he's had to get stronger. So he's gotten a little bit more physical, but I'm with you. His balance is so bad. Like I kind of go back to balance. Like he feels like he falls down a lot and gets pushed around a lot, which is not good.

• 1:34:24Bill Simmons?

  It's like what I texted you guys. I'm watching all of these guys as I think about them, like projecting them and I'm watching these games. I'm having a good time, but I'm also like in the back of my head, what is this guy going to be like as a pro? And you just have to think about them going against OKC and San Antonio and Boston. And all of these 6'7", 6'8" wings and Jason Wallace and Derrick White and Hugo Gonzalez and just on and on that. And then Wemby waiting for you in the paint. And if, in my head, it seems inconceivable that you could handle that kind of level of basketball, it'd be really tough for me to take you with a top 10 pick. So, you know, we'll see with, with Ament. But there was a little Brad Sellers.

• 1:35:03Speaker 03

  Oh, wow.

• 1:35:03Bill Simmons?

  So I'm going way back.

• 1:35:05Speaker 03

  You're going Brad Sellers.

• 1:35:07Bill Simmons?

  Like we've seen these guys.

• 1:35:08Speaker 02

  John Vender, yeah.

• 1:35:10Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, there's the tall skinny guys that are face up guys and they, they make me nervous. The, the Illinois kid though, the fact that he wasn't a top 100 high school recruit.

• 1:35:21Speaker 02

  Three star recruit.

• 1:35:21Bill Simmons?

  And there's a chance to be a seven. Basically a top seven pick. I think that's like the craziest story I can remember in a while. Kyle, is that, when's the last time that's happened? Somebody's went from like off the map to top seven lottery pick in a year?

• 1:35:35Speaker 02

  I can't think of a specific name off the top of my head, but I've talked to a lot of people. Kingston had a similar thing going on where he was a Puma circuit guy, if I'm not mistaken. And there's an interesting inefficiency that comes down to is there just video access to these guys? Cause Puma's video access just wasn't very good. And Kingston suffered because of that. And Keaton came from like an independent grassroots team, if I'm not mistaken. So he just got.

• 1:35:59Speaker 03

  Played for his high school team.

• 1:36:01Speaker 02

  Another guy, Bennett Sturts, who might end up being a lottery pick for Iowa, was a kid who was just like, I don't care about being on a big grassroots team. He was like, and he's awesome. And he ended up at like D2 and he's just kicked ass every level. There's some of these guys that just don't care. And then when they get to the level, they shine. They don't play the game, but it happens more than you would think.

• 1:36:18Speaker 03

  One guy I can think of recently is Cedric Coward, you know, Cedric Coward was completely off the beaten path. And then he just kind of came out of nowhere. So he, and he just knows how to play basketball, which I feel like Wogler checks that box and Underwood had never seen him play. He just saw video of him passing. It was like, I like this kid. And that's how he ended up at Illinois, which is also insane.

• 1:36:37Bill Simmons?

  I mean, but at least Coward was in college for a couple of years, right?

• 1:36:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:36:40Bill Simmons?

  This guy's in 12, in 12 months has completely changed his thing. It's pretty cool. Tate, odds on LeBron going to one of these Arizona tournament games?

• 1:36:50Speaker 03

  Minus 250. If it's, if they make, if they make it to the regional final, he's definitely there, you know? I see Gonzaga, Arizona, LeBron's there. All the Arizona fans are like, this is our time. And then Mark Few somehow wins this game. And then Arizona fans are like, I blame LeBron, you know?

• 1:37:08Speaker 02

  Not a peep about Bryce. I mean, isn't it, isn't it crazy?

• 1:37:11Bill Simmons?

  He got redshirted, right?

• 1:37:13Speaker 02

  Is it, well, is it, yeah, well, just him being in the college experience. Yeah. We haven't heard any, no LeBron sniffing, nothing.

• 1:37:19Speaker 03

  He took his warm up ball for the picture. What do you guys think about that? Like they won the championship and then he took his warm off for the warm up off for the picture because if he looks down 10 years, they're like, he definitely played his warmups off. Kind of smart.

• 1:37:32Bill Simmons?

  You gotta keep the warm up on if you didn't play.

• 1:37:34Speaker 02

  Maybe next year will be the circus. We'll see.

• 1:37:37Bill Simmons?

  All right. So will you guys come back on a week from Tuesday? Yeah. My pod then to we could dive back into what happened that first weekend and then Tate's obviously gonna be on Ringer Gambling, the tailgate, the award winning Ringer Tailgate Show is gonna do some college trips as well.

• 1:37:53Speaker 03

  Oh, man.

• 1:37:54Bill Simmons?

  Kyle's gonna be on Ringer NBA talking about this stuff. And when does our first mock draft go up for the Ringer? When are we doing that?

• 1:38:00Speaker 02

  All right, we're finishing it up right now. We're getting all our profiles put together. So we're gonna have a lot to read and a lot to digest coming real soon.

• 1:38:06Bill Simmons?

  I can't wait. All right. Thank you, Kyle. Thank you, Tate. Thanks to Gahan Eduardo as well. Don't forget, rewatchable is coming tomorrow, putting up a little bit earlier for CR Month. I know you guys have been enthralled by CR Month, but we have Out to Live and Die in LA coming tomorrow and I will see you on this podcast on Tuesday. Thanks, everybody.

• 1:38:43Bill Simmons?

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• 1:39:27Bill Simmons?

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• 1:40:11Bill Simmons?

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