Cara Delevingne: Sobriety, Sexuality & Self-Love

Join Alex in the studio for an interview with Cara Delevingne. Cara sits down with Alex to talk about her new album and reflect on the experiences that helped her find herself. She opens up about mental health, sobriety, identity, and why her music era feels like a fresh start. Enjoy! Content Warning: This episode includes discussion of suicidal ideation. Please take care while listening. If you or someone you love needs support, please reach out to any of the below resources: 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline Call or text 988, or chat via https://988lifeline.org, to get free, confidential, 24/7 support if you are having suicidal thoughts, feel in crisis, or are worried about someone else. Crisis Text Line Text HOME to 741741 to connect with a trained crisis counselor for free, confidential, 24/7 support by text.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Alex Cooper?

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• 0:45Alex Cooper?

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• 1:30Alex Cooper?

  or the Scrub and Wipe for a scrubbing side and a sud-sing side. All three look good, scrub great, and they come with handy drain and dry stands that are super compact and cute. Hook yourself up. Boost it with Bright. Shop now. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Uber. Uber just introduced a new feature called Women Preferences, which lets women riders request a woman driver directly in the app. It's honestly an amazing feature that gives women more control over their rides. Sometimes we all just want a ride that feels a little more comfortable and chill. So if you haven't used it yet, Uber's new Women Preferences feature is available now in the Uber app. Learn more on the Uber app.

• 2:13Alex Cooper?

  What is up, daddy gang? It is your founding Father Alex Cooper with Call Her Daddy.

• 2:22Alex Cooper?

  Cardalevin, welcome to Cardaddy.

• 2:23Speaker 01

  Hi.

• 2:24Alex Cooper?

  I couldn't be more excited to have you here.

• 2:26Speaker 01

  I'm very excited. I'm nervous. I'm nervous.

• 2:29Alex Cooper?

  Don't be nervous. I was just thinking about-

• 2:30Speaker 01

  I've been nervous all day though, don't worry. I have my first show tonight, so I'm just-

• 2:33Alex Cooper?

  So there's a lot going on today.

• 2:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:35Alex Cooper?

  Well, I've got you.

• 2:37Speaker 01

  Okay, cool.

• 2:38Alex Cooper?

  It's gonna be fine. And I also can't believe we've never met.

• 2:40Speaker 01

  I know. It's, I feel like I've just,

• 2:45Speaker 01

  I feel like I've just been a fan of yours for so long and watched the show and watched your documentary. I just think you're incredible and I love how comfortable you make people feel and how, like, the different interview styles you get from people. Yeah, you just have a really incredible way, I think, with people, making them feel comfortable, which is something I also like to do.

• 3:04Alex Cooper?

  Well, you are so sweet. Thank you for saying that.

• 3:07Speaker 01

  But not that I need to make you feel comfortable.

• 3:08Alex Cooper?

  No, no, no. I feel-

• 3:09Speaker 01

  This is your house.

• 3:10Alex Cooper?

  I feel the same way about you. I, thinking about coming here, I was like, there's so many different things we have to talk about. Obviously, you came into this industry as literally one of the world's most famous models. Then you just so casually also pivoted and you're in some incredible movies. And now you have an album coming out this summer. Congratulations.

• 3:31Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 3:31Alex Cooper?

  How are you feeling?

• 3:32Speaker 01

  Ah, it's a lot. I, um, yeah, I'm not sleeping a lot right now. I feel so crazy, but in like a very, like, this is only gonna happen once in my life that I'm gonna feel like this. So I'm also quite enjoying the mania. I'm getting quite a lot done, but also, I'm ready to, to, to have a little nap after the, after tonight's show. But no, I, I'm really, it doesn't feel real. This is like all my dreams come true with this album, really.

• 4:03Alex Cooper?

  Well, I'm like, you're gonna do your first show tonight. You also just got back from the Cannes Film Festival.

• 4:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:08Alex Cooper?

  Where your movie, Club Kid, got a seven-minute standing ovation.

• 4:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:14Alex Cooper?

  No big deal.

• 4:15Speaker 01

  I know. I've never been in the room when that happens and it was, it's definitely one of those things where like, oh, it's really,

• 4:19Alex Cooper?

  It's working.

• 4:20Speaker 01

  It feels like a long time.

• 4:21Alex Cooper?

  What did that moment feel like to you, though?

• 4:24Speaker 01

  Oh, I was just so happy for Jordan and like Little Reggie, who is the kid in the movie and- Uh, yeah, Jordan is an incredible person and I think people are really gonna get to see just how enigmatic he is and how multifaceted and talented he is to create a movie like that where it really shows queer culture in such a realistic way for people who don't experience that or have never experienced that, those kind of clubs and drugs and all of it, but then also, you know, it's a real tearjerker.

• 4:56Alex Cooper?

  I know, I was gonna just say like, congratulations, my husband who's in that industry was like, oh, well, she's been the talk of Cannes, so you're getting her a great time. And I was like, oh, and she's got an album, Matt. So he was like, oh, my God, this is perfect timing. So congratulations on that entire trip, seriously.

• 5:11Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 5:12Alex Cooper?

  I'm sure you noticed, but the Call Her Daddy studio outside in the offices is under construction.

• 5:17Speaker 01

  Oh, I'm obsessed.

• 5:18Alex Cooper?

  And we are building like a little tunnel for people to walk through when they come to the studio. And I know that in your old house.

• 5:27Speaker 01

  I was gonna say, is it?

• 5:28Alex Cooper?

  You, uh huh, you converted a hallway into a vagina tunnel.

• 5:33Speaker 01

  Glorified hallway. It wasn't a hallway. It was for sure. It was the, the tunnel. Small, petite, cute.

• 5:40Alex Cooper?

  Gorgeous.

• 5:40Speaker 01

  Gorgeous, fluffy, soft, warm, vibrates, all of it.

• 5:45Alex Cooper?

  Did it have a name or was it just vagina tunnel?

• 5:47Speaker 01

  It was my vagina tunnel. And really the best part of it is that uh, people would ask about it and I'd be like, yes, I've had so many people come through my vagina tunnel. It's so great. Can't wait for you to see it. It just was such a good gag. Even that the fact that it existed was weirder, but um, yeah, I think it was just me during COVID. I think I'd done some mushrooms and I was like, I need to make a vagina tunnel that you crawl through and you can sit in and you can meditate and it can feel warm and there's like visuals and lights and yeah, vibrates and is warm. Am I forgetting anything? No, and there's like, there was like a little hammock in there too. And then you crawl out of a washing machine and you feel cleansed. It's like baptism.

• 6:29Alex Cooper?

  It's genius and it's amazing and I'm sad I never got to experience it.

• 6:33Speaker 01

  I'm so sad.

• 6:34Alex Cooper?

  It would have been really up my alley.

• 6:36Speaker 01

  And no house will ever be like that house. You can't really replicate it. And also I'm in a different time in my life where I don't think that's also something I want, but I do want a vagina tunnel again. I'll always have one, so I might as well. Invite people in, you know?

• 6:51Alex Cooper?

  Okay, so no matter what, you're gonna get, when you get a new house, you'll find an area for a vagina.

• 6:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, and even if it's more like a vagina cave, maybe it doesn't go anywhere. Maybe it's more just like a cozy cotch space. Yeah, I don't know, a reading corner. It's a different kind of vagina tunnel.

• 7:09Alex Cooper?

  I love.

• 7:09Speaker 01

  The vagina tunnel's matured.

• 7:11Alex Cooper?

  I love it so much. I literally, I was like, I know it hasn't been a while since you've had it, but I was like, I just.

• 7:17Speaker 01

  Oh, it's one of my favorite things that I had. Yeah.

• 7:19Alex Cooper?

  And I had to bring it up.

• 7:20Speaker 01

  No, you had to.

• 7:21Alex Cooper?

  Um, I'm so excited to get to know you today, truly. I feel like I want to learn so much more about all of your life experiences, especially that inspired this album.

• 7:31Speaker 01

  Girl.

• 7:32Alex Cooper?

  Girl, I wore my cozy pants today. I'm relaxed. I'm ready to get into it because

• 7:38Speaker 01

  Perfect.

• 7:38Alex Cooper?

  this album is very personal.

• 7:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:41Alex Cooper?

  And there's a lot that you talk about that I think does require us to kind of go back to the childhood a little bit.

• 7:49Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 7:49Alex Cooper?

  So you're down to go back with me, Cara?

• 7:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm still there.

• 7:51Alex Cooper?

  Okay, let's go. Oh, perfect. Okay, let's go.

• 7:53Speaker 01

  Still regretting.

• 7:54Alex Cooper?

  Um, so you grew up in London.

• 7:55Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 7:56Alex Cooper?

  What is the most like British thing about you?

• 8:00Speaker 01

  I mean, I've made an England tattoo down the bottom of my foot. I don't think that's the most British thing about my personality, but it is. I'm a, I'm a pretty proud Brit. I love the sense of humor. Um, I'm really self-deprecating though. Like, I'm really on borderline, like, I hate myself. Not anymore. I've done a lot of work on it, but I think that's, that's part of something about being British. Yeah, the dry humor, which I think a lot of the time in the beginning of my career, people really didn't understand that I was being sarcastic quite a lot. Or maybe I was also just in a bad mood and trying to play it off as sarcasm. Either way.

• 8:36Alex Cooper?

  Isn't that weird? In the beginning of your career, you hope, you're like, wait, no, that's not what I meant. And now it's kind of like, great to be misunderstood.

• 8:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:43Alex Cooper?

  Like, I don't care.

• 8:44Speaker 01

  I just, I think I was so desperate for love and for people to like me so much so that.

• 8:52Speaker 01

  I just, I don't, I don't really know what I was doing at some, so many points.

• 8:56Alex Cooper?

  You, I know that your parents kind of ran in circles of like, that were considered high society.

• 9:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:02Alex Cooper?

  What was that like for you growing up?

• 9:05Speaker 01

  It's so interesting because I don't think, it's so, I mean, people can see things like, stuff on TV, right? Of like, obviously the crown is not how I grew up, but like, in that certain way of like, there was nothing quite like British high society. It's, to me, something I really didn't enjoy. I was very confused by the whole thing of

• 9:29Speaker 01

  people growing up, having kind of a lot of money and not really doing anything and kind of feeling very entitled and having a lot and expecting a lot for really nothing. Whereas I grew up and I just really wanted, I mean, when I was a kid, I really wanted to change the world. I felt like I wanted to be a superhero. I think that came from like, a hero complex of like, trying to fix people and make people better. But for me, I don't know, I really wanted to earn people's respect. And I think there's that thing of society where if you're born into it, you don't really have to do much and people can be pretty horrible and pretty rude and spoiled. Not everyone. I mean, it doesn't always work like that, but I think

• 10:15Speaker 01

  the circles that my parents ran in, I don't know, I was like, I don't like these people's kids. Like, they're not nice to other kids or they're not nice to people who work here or for them. And it's just like, it felt very, I don't know, I preferred going to raves and breaking into festivals and doing drugs in a park. Like, that was my vibe. I really wanted to like, do the opposite, I think.

• 10:38Alex Cooper?

  Is there anything though, that you felt like there were, I know you're saying like, oh, you kind of didn't have to do anything. You kind of just like, had money and that was the expectation of like, just kind of go and then you become the next generation that goes into the wealth. But like, were there expectations in terms of the way you were supposed to act and the way you were supposed to present when you're?

• 10:57Speaker 01

  Think so. I, if anyone knows me, they know that I'm not.

• 11:05Speaker 01

  I'm not a super put together person like I think my I think especially for my parents and for my family like man is a super important and I believe that it's very important to be kind to people. Um, but when it comes to like in terms of like eating in a pretty way or whatever like I'm not like to be a model for instance and to like walk. Well, oh my God, it took me so long to like pretend to be graceful because I'm just not I'm a feral. Human like I'm way more like of a Neanderthal than I am. A human being that's not the right word.

• 11:37Alex Cooper?

  Proper and grace for me were just not something.

• 11:40Speaker 01

  No, and also I I also think because. My parents ran in these circles. I assumed when I was younger, you know, I went to I was very lucky. I went to incredible schools, you know, I would go on amazing holidays. Um.

• 11:58Speaker 01

  But for me, there was something that was missing underneath it all, which was, I think, a lot of about. High society is that people try and really pretend to be perfect and act like in a certain way and everything has to be wrapped in a very neat box and. When I knew there was so much stuff going on underneath it, it really confused me and I was like, I don't understand. But there was a certain element where I was like, oh, you know, all my friends. That and their kids, they get trust funds like when when does that happen? My dad was like, are you kidding? You don't have a trust fund. And I was like, oh, so you run in these circles, but it's not to the same degree. If that makes sense, it's a perception of, you know, go to the parties and do all the things and look nice, but it's not the same level of like.

• 12:43Alex Cooper?

  It's not the same reality.

• 12:44Speaker 01

  No, but also I think for my. You know, I love my parents and there's been a lot of like. There was a lot of resentment I had towards my upbringing and growing up, but I also think because I pushed myself too hard and it took me a long time. To get over it, but I think their perception of. How it was, especially for men and women, you know, my dad had three girls and his. His ideal was for us to, you know, marry someone who would look after us. And I was like, I that's never, I never want to be looked after by anyone.

• 13:14Alex Cooper?

  It's so interesting, obviously, generationally, when they have like an idea for you and you're like trying to break away from it, but it also feels like then you are. Abandoning what your parents want, which means feeling like you're letting them down and it's.

• 13:26Speaker 01

  I also don't think he thought it was possible for a woman to, I don't know, in the same sense that I'm sure he did, but.

• 13:34Speaker 01

  I also just knew I was different too. Like I knew, I knew I was a little queer kid running around. Like I didn't feel like I belonged in my body, in my fa- in any of it. So I was like, yeah, anything you guys tell me, I'm not gonna listen to, which also is part of how I am in just terms of like rules. I can't really handle them.

• 13:55Alex Cooper?

  I also think something you said was so interesting and relatable for probably a lot of people growing up is like the feeling of, we, why are we all not talking about this? Why are we all pretending everything's fine? And I remember you said, from the outside, my family's life looked extremely privileged, but behind closed doors, there was a lot more to the story. Like, yes, we're talking about the parties, but can you kind of paint the picture of what your life did look like in the home with your parents and your siblings?

• 14:22Speaker 01

  Unfortunately, my, my memory of a lot of it, my memory is my memory. It's not fact. I can remember what I can remember. And unfortunately, the way that I'm wired, my brain will tend to hold on to darker things and trauma than it does the nice parts, which I know they were there.

• 14:46Speaker 01

  Because there's videos of it and there are memories I have of it that I worked really hard to, to remember, but I do.

• 14:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I think I, I don't know. I don't feel like I had a voice as a kid in terms of, I mean, who does, I guess, at that age, but I don't feel like I was going through a lot and I don't know what I was going through. But there was a lot going on with my mom, who especially was very sick when I was growing up. And I didn't know how I felt about it, but I also wasn't asked or wasn't allowed to feel. And also she was so sick, so I couldn't. Make it about me. I just had to look after her and that I was actually really good at it. Like I loved doing it.

• 15:36Speaker 01

  But she it overtook everything to the point where like I just I still am really trying to learn how to look after myself at thirty fucking three. Sorry, excuse me. Can I swear?

• 15:48Alex Cooper?

  Of course.

• 15:48Speaker 01

  I forget every time. People always ask us on the show.

• 15:50Alex Cooper?

  We were talking about vagina tunnel.

• 15:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're right.

• 15:52Alex Cooper?

  Please swear. Um, that's also a very, I think, interesting theme in a lot of people's life is like feeling like if there's someone in your family that's really going through it, then you kind of have to, then your problems aren't as big as theirs.

• 16:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:05Alex Cooper?

  And I know you have talked about kind of like the struggles that your mom went through mental health wise and with substance use. Is there a moment as a kid that you like acutely remember being like, oh, something is off with her? Or was it just always a constant?

• 16:21Speaker 01

  It it felt normal. It felt normal until, you know, being at a certain age where you're told your mom's gonna die and being in hospital being like, huh? Like, I don't understand what that means. And also, the very, very physical visceral memory of her being away a lot and, you know, either being in hospital or in rehab of some sort. And that feeling of not knowing where she was, no one told me. So I just thought she was dead and I didn't understand. So and that's when that kind of thing of like trying to control the uncontrollable would come in where like, I just would stop eating at seven and like just be on a hunger strike because I didn't know where my mother was. I was not gonna

• 17:06Speaker 01

  eat because that to me was the only thing I had control over.

• 17:09Alex Cooper?

  And what would you like? Would you ask your father and he wouldn't share?

• 17:12Speaker 01

  No, I didn't understand. I just, I don't know. Again, I don't remember. And I think my dad, we we all have very different memories of this. My sisters are, you know, six and eight years older than me. They were teenagers. They were out the house. My dad, bless him, you know, he my drive and my ambition and my, he works really hard. And to him, security and money is the most important thing and to look after people. But in the same sense, he wasn't around a lot as much as I think I.

• 17:45Speaker 01

  I was around, I guess, my mom.

• 17:47Alex Cooper?

  Well, and I think something, Cara, that is so weird as adults that you have to, we have to start to realize, which I have a lot of conversations with people about is like, we love our parents and we also were like, that was a weird fucked up thing that happened in my childhood. And I think it's hard to grapple with like, you can still say that things did not feel right in your childhood and both things can kind of exist. And I think it's a odd feeling because it seems like you've kind of made amends with your family and you guys are like on great terms. But also, a child's perception is everything. It doesn't matter if you were seeing it slightly different than maybe your father was seeing it.

• 18:31Alex Cooper?

  That was your reality. And so the fact that you were saying, I literally thought my mom was dead. I had no idea where she was. That's like, you're, you're in shock and you're going through grief and all those things at a really young age and you're just alone. And like, it seems like you didn't really have anyone to talk to.

• 18:46Speaker 01

  I, I just didn't have the tools to talk. And I also think, I remember, you know, I remember when I started dealing with my own struggles and my dad was like, what? What do, what do, what do you have to struggle about? You've had everything you've ever wanted, you know, presents and holidays and a good school. And I was like, that's, that's not your fault for not knowing that. But that's also my, it's, it's not, it's, it's not based on anyone's fault, but the, the conversation just was not there. And I didn't know how to have it. So I just held everything in to the point where, you know, I had a mental breakdown at 15, but I was way too young and had to drop out of school.

• 19:30Speaker 01

  And, but it also happened at the same time, starting to do drugs. But to me, that was like, it all happened at once. And then, yeah, it's still. I still don't think I found that proper way of talking about anything until, I don't know, this past four, five years.

• 19:49Alex Cooper?

  Well, I think also because like you just said, like, then you just kind of go on the run and you're like, I've got to figure myself out. I've got to get through this and you don't, no one has time to fucking like, think about their childhood until you finally can breathe a little bit, be like, what happened back then?

• 20:02Speaker 01

  Huh?

• 20:03Alex Cooper?

  And it's also like to your father's credit and I have had um, people in my life like this where clearly whatever happened in his life, he was able to kind of plug those wounds with being like, if I can be so successful, if I can get money and status, that will help me. And you're like, wait, the material things don't mean anything to me.

• 20:21Speaker 01

  And like to his credit, like he kept our family together. He could have left my mother, like to stay with someone who had struggled and had been through,

• 20:34Speaker 01

  you know, and not to her, not, not that she ever wanted to hurt people, but she hurt everyone a lot. And he stayed and he kept us together and that to me is pretty incredible. I, I really, I loved,

• 20:50Speaker 01

  I've loved getting older in the sense of that resentment and that anger that you hold on to is just so poisoning. It's just, it's honestly the worst. Like you can do anything to yourself, but when you hold on to stuff like that, you just make, you get so sick.

• 21:04Alex Cooper?

  It is.

• 21:05Speaker 01

  You really do.

• 21:05Alex Cooper?

  And I remember in one of your past um, interviews, you said, I didn't feel like I had the right to feel. I didn't want to cause any more pain. I'm like, whoa, that's a really heavy burden to carry as a child to basically force yourself not to feel. If you look back at that time in your life, what traits or habits do you think you kind of developed in response to being like, don't feel, don't feel, don't cause anyone pain?

• 21:35Speaker 01

  Uh, danger seeking behavior for sure. I, because I also think at some point around the time of the not eating, I also just started like throwing myself off stuff and like, I broke like, I don't know how many bones in like a year because I just started. I I was in pain inside, but I didn't know how to express it. So I just wanted to feel pain. And I I it didn't it didn't consciously happen in that way in my head. But I remember breaking my elbow straight through for the first time and going to the hospital. And finding out it was broken and being like, oh, yay, like. I can finally have a cast and say like, ow, I I I I'm hurting, you know, it was like the first time I could like.

• 22:23Speaker 01

  Like feel like I deserve to say, ow.

• 22:27Alex Cooper?

  Right, like have someone validate you and be like, oh, you must be in so much pain, right?

• 22:31Speaker 01

  Broken pain now.

• 22:33Alex Cooper?

  Oh, my god, that, yeah. That's so, that's sad, right? As a kid.

• 22:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, it is. It is sad. I definitely.

• 22:44Speaker 01

  Oh, I definitely now, I like, I wish. I had. Given myself. I'd been more gentle with myself and I didn't have the tools to do that, but I wish I, you know, now. When I look back at like photos of myself as a kid, I was like, oh, I didn't deserve. Not that I didn't deserve to be treated like that. I didn't deserve to then do what I did to myself. Cause things can happen. It's how you deal with them. It's how you hold on to them. No one deserves to, you know, be hurt or to be neglected in any way, shape or form, but. I didn't make it easier. I made it a hell of a lot worse.

• 23:24Alex Cooper?

  I know, but I also think. That is something that humans and it is frustrating. And I think especially as women, there's a lot of this of like. When the pain is not something that someone can tangibly and like physically see. You are dismissed and you're discarded and it's like, oh, you're being dramatic. And so really it's it's they're all the repression of the quote I read of you being like, I literally. Tried not to feel. Eventually your body was like, we have to expel this. We have to do something.

• 23:53Speaker 01

  It's like an exorcism, right? Yeah, it has to come out. And also my my trait was. I just wanted to fix other people, but had no concept of receiving love. So in any like relationship or anything, I'd be like, oh, that person's not doing well. Oh, I can look after them and hopefully, you know, I wasn't able to save my mom, but I could save this person. And that will hopefully wrong that right. And but then at some point, someone would actually try and show me love. And I would be like, oh no, that's not what we do here. I look after you. I'm still not even equipped to do that at the point, but like, no, that's, and I would just run for the hills.

• 24:35Alex Cooper?

  Well, cause it's all you knew. It's like, give love to my mother, be there for her, everybody wait for her to come home.

• 24:40Speaker 01

  And like, yeah, and I lo- I I loved doing it. I don't know why. It I because it gave me a purpose and it helped me not think about myself, which I didn't like doing at that point.

• 24:51Alex Cooper?

  So what happened at fifteen?

• 24:53Speaker 01

  Uh, I was experimenting a lot, I think with like hallucinogens at that point. You know, which, pretty young, fourteen, thirteen, fourteen, um.

• 25:06Speaker 01

  And yeah, you know, growing up in England and London at that time, it was a lot of drugs and ketamine was very big at that point. And I think I love what drugs made me feel. I loved not having to think about my mom. I loved not having to feel the pressure of not being good at school because I couldn't focus or concentrate. The pressure of not feeling like I was good at anything or good enough or love myself, all of that, it went away. And what drugs really gave me at that point, which is what I was desperately looking for was connection, wasn't real. I mean, it is to some extent, but it's not, it's there, it's tangible, but it's not deep enough, right?

• 25:46Speaker 01

  For what you really need, maybe what you want. But I loved that part and I loved the friends I had and the music and the, you know, breaking into, it was just like such an amazing period, but then, especially with things like hallucinogens and when your brain is not formed yet. I just remember having a really bad trip, a really bad trip where I just, I thought that, um. That my dad was God and my mom was the devil and I had to kill her to save the end of the world like like I lost my mind. And uh. At the end of that trip, though, I thought that Bill Murray, Tim Curry and Jim Carrey were the same person and I'm still convinced that they might be.

• 26:27Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 26:27Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 26:29Alex Cooper?

  Acid is a crazy thing. To be determined.

• 26:31Speaker 01

  But I really, I I also was taking it like every day, like I was doing it a lot and. My brain was just not. Stable enough to be able to do that and I just kept having bad trips and. I ju- I was just became suicidal, just because at that point then when I was in school.

• 26:51Speaker 01

  Whether it was the drugs or the fact that like whenever I was anywhere else away from my mom, I could feel her. I could feel her all the time. I could feel when she was in pain. She would call me, you know, we were so close. So whenever I was away from her, I I couldn't think about anything else.

• 27:07Alex Cooper?

  It's like almost codependency.

• 27:09Speaker 01

  Beyond enmeshment, they would say, um. So, yeah, I just.

• 27:18Speaker 01

  I was so confused because I also didn't have a great relationship with my dad at that point. But suddenly something started to switch where I was like, maybe my mom's actually. Not. In the right here and my dad's actually not in the wrong and why do I hate him and. Protect her so fiercely in life like what I think my whole world exploded and I was like, I think everything I've thought. For the last fifteen years is wrong. And then at that point, especially at school, I wasn't great at school. I loved what I loved, which was music and theatre and. But exams and sitting there, I my brain just would go so fast and. I also think I'm left handed. I was forced to write with my right hand, not forced, I just did to fit in. I don't know.

• 28:03Speaker 01

  Uh, but I couldn't keep up with my head and. Yeah, I would just try and knock myself out physically, because. And that that is why I think that same feeling was why I started. Having a bad relationship with drugs was because I just wanted to. Knock myself out.

• 28:21Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, and escape. Did your family at this point in high school when you were using know that this was happening?

• 28:30Speaker 01

  No, I mean, I'm the youngest by a pretty long way. Uh, so you just get away with more. I was also at boarding school, so like, and I wasn't using at boarding school. It was kind of more like weekends and da, da, da. Um, but it was when I would probably go to London on the weekends, do drugs and then go back to school where all of it would just come and I'd be sitting there going, I can't, my brain is just absolutely in turmoil.

• 28:55Alex Cooper?

  And I think also something that's interesting, what you're referring to is I feel like everyone in high school starts to, you have a little bit of independence, you're at boarding school specifically. So your brain does start to be like, what was happening in my childhood a little bit, right? So you're starting to lightly gain this consciousness that you didn't have in those like elementary, middle school days. And then you're around more people at boarding school, you're seeing other people's dynamics. And the fact that you were like, is my dad the villain or is it my mom and your whole reality?

• 29:26Speaker 01

  I'm so angry. That was honestly the hardest thing is the anger.

• 29:32Speaker 01

  Because I, that was also the part that I, I didn't know who to be angry. I was so angry at the world and I was so angry, I couldn't make my mom better. And every time I would go home, something would be different. It was out of my control and that I'd have to go back to school and still I was felt like I was split. I was never in one place. I was like, my head's here, my heart's there. I don't know where I am.

• 29:52Alex Cooper?

  And so drugs.

• 29:53Speaker 01

  No.

• 29:53Alex Cooper?

  And that helps it kind of all the question marks and all the curiosity, it alleviates that from you.

• 29:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, wipes it. But it doesn't wipe it. It puts it under a rug and then the rug, you're a hoarder.

• 30:04Alex Cooper?

  You're a hoarder.

• 30:05Speaker 01

  Hoarder of drugs.

• 30:06Alex Cooper?

  You drop out of high school and you pursue modeling full time. How did everyone in your life feel about that decision?

• 30:15Speaker 01

  Not great. I, I didn't also, that was not something I was like, oh, I'm going to drop out and do modeling. It was more that I have to drop out. Because I will either do something stupid at school. I'm so depressed. I'm gonna do so badly. I'm either gonna get expelled. Like, I have to get out of here. There's no, this is not helping the situation. And I think I needed a shock into like, cause I was like, oh, school, this is such a nightmare. My life's so hard. This is so difficult. No, the real life, the real world is way harder. But I needed that. I kinda needed that reality check. And my parents were like, you know, you had to take a year out of school.

• 30:59Speaker 01

  You know, you managed to get your shit together. You put on antidepressants and go back and, but now you wanna drop out. Like, you have to have a plan. You can't just, you know, my parents were also like, you know, you need to go to university. It's like that stuff. And I was like, well, I'll have to figure out how to find a job. I was scouted at a rave. Also, my sister had been a model, well, is a model. And, yeah, I mean, I was like, I did it because I was like, sure, you want me to be a model? Like, good luck. I'll do my best. Like, as long as it means I can leave school and get out of here. But I definitely didn't, I wasn't like, this is gonna work.

• 31:37Alex Cooper?

  And then, and then,

• 31:40Speaker 01

  And then.

• 31:40Alex Cooper?

  You become one of the most recognizable faces in the world.

• 31:45Speaker 01

  Just the eyebrows.

• 31:47Alex Cooper?

  You're so right. Just right above those eyes, girl.

• 31:50Speaker 01

  Just the eyes.

• 31:51Alex Cooper?

  It, it looks like you literally took over the world. And so the fact that you're like, oh, I gotta get out of this fucking school. Like, maybe I'll give this a try. And then it's Cara Delevingne is fucking everywhere. Do you remember what that early, early success felt like?

• 32:17Alex Cooper?

  Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Airbnb. As you guys know, I have basically been working double time throughout this pregnancy to bank episodes for the month that I will be on maternity leave. And a few weeks ago, it all just kind of hit me. I was like, wait, wait, wait. Where did summer go? And I was talking about this with Matt and he ended up surprising me with a little staycation. He booked this beautiful home on Airbnb in Malibu so that we could pretend like it was summer while it's still warm here in LA. The weather was perfect. The house was right on the beach, which was so relaxing and amazing. It also had just such a gorgeous kitchen. We stayed in, we cooked dinner together.

• 32:58Alex Cooper?

  And you know, daddy gaining my cooking skills, they have, they have gotten better. They've gotten a little bit better through pregnancy, but it was really just so nice to unplug and spend that time together before the baby comes and we move into this completely new chapter of our life. So whether you're planning a cozy weekend away, or you're just looking for an excuse to unplug for a few days, October is the perfect time to get out of town. Booking a home on Airbnb makes the trip feel even more special because everyone has room to actually spend time together. Whether you're coming back after a long day out, or you're also just cooking dinner. Airbnb makes settling in even easier because you can order groceries for your trip and have all the snacks and essentials delivered

• 33:42Alex Cooper?

  after you arrive. My favorite fall trips always have one thing in common, an amazing place to say. That's why I always look at Airbnb first. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by My Mochi. Everyone is talking about Dubai chocolate, chocolate with pistachio flavored cream. Well, now Mochi Ice Cream has its own version of Dubai chocolate. Spoiler alert, guys, it's delicious. My Mochi Dubai Chocolate Ice Cream is premium pistachio flavored ice cream with Khadijah and chocolatey flavored bits wrapped in sweet chewy chocolate flavored dough.

• 34:22Alex Cooper?

  It's only 80 calories per piece, nut free and easy to share because it comes in a box with six individual snacks. I am obsessed with My Mochi. And when you give me that plus a good chocolate, I'm gonna have that in my freezer. Every single night, I'm gonna pop one in. I am obsessed. I love it so much. The joy with every bite of Maimochi ice cream. Look for the green and brown box of Maimochi Dubai chocolate ice cream in the freezer aisle of your local grocery store. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Shopify. Daddy gang, you know, I'm a little skeptical of the internet at times, aren't we all?

• 35:04Alex Cooper?

  But one thing I absolutely love is how much easier it has made starting a business. No matter what stage you're at, Shopify is the best place to start and grow a business. With Shopify, you get to own your storefront while still being discovered everywhere from Google to YouTube to the shop app. They also let you sell across TikTok, Instagram, Pinterest, even directly inside AI chats. So your customers can shop wherever they already are and your products can appear directly alongside content. So as someone is scrolling, they just become part of their feed. Shopify truly makes it so much easier for customers to discover and buy products wherever they're browsing. And this has been such a game changer for Unwell.

• 35:49Alex Cooper?

  I love being able to sell merch directly on all the Call Her Daddy channels. So everything is in one place for the daddy gang. So, ready to add entrepreneur to your list of accomplishments? Head to Shopify.com/daddy. That's Shopify.com/daddy. Do you remember what that early, early success felt like and recognition?

• 36:13Speaker 01

  No, I don't remember. It's weird. I don't. I do. I remember before and I remember, you know, logging my book around with the model friends that I made and being a stupidity on the tube and going to all the castings and being told I was too short or not pretty enough. And I was like, oh, fuck, this sucks. This is really way hard. Like this is not easy. Also, if you do a show, you don't get paid. I'm like, I don't understand where this like goes.

• 36:40Speaker 01

  I got a job at ASOS. It was five days a week. I had a paycheck. I was like, this is it. This is my life. I'm so happy. I can move around the corner from the ASOS building. I became the like, you know, number one internet model clicked on for ASOS. Like it was a massive deal. I really was like, I, I got my free like sandwich every lunch. There was also like a sample sale for like five pounds. You get back those. I really, that was like a very highlight point and I really thought that that was going to be it. And then.

• 37:11Speaker 01

  And then, yeah, I I I remember I'd been into Burberry before and I'd done the show castings. And I remember even walking out in the jacket and the woman just being like, no. Like before I'd even walked or even said anything and you're like, oh, God. So I remember going in there again and being like, oh, okay, I'm being back again. And meeting Christopher Bailey, who was like, you know, what do you like to do? And I was like, huh?

• 37:35Speaker 01

  What do I like to do? Oh, uh, well, I I mean, I'd love to act. That's always been my dream and I I play the drums and guitar and I, you know, would love to do music. I just, I don't think I'm good enough. And I'd just never been asked that before, especially during modeling. I was like, this is the weirdest thing is he just, I don't know. And the next day I was doing the campaign uh with Jordan Dunn and Mary Tass, you know, she's doing it on a beach in Brighton, freezing cold. And I was like, oh, this is different. This is really different. These clothes are different. This environment is different. Like, you know, you're in the cold, like the PVC plastic jacket that it is so cold that you're getting blood blisters down your arms. But it's fashion and you've got to make it look good.

• 38:19Speaker 01

  And you're in high heels on a like pebbled beach and you're like, whatever I'm gonna do, I'm going to make this look easy. But that's what I'd done my whole life is go, I'm gonna make whatever pain this is, but I'm gonna make it. Yeah, I'm gonna serve the cunt.

• 38:36Alex Cooper?

  No matter how much pain I'm in.

• 38:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm gonna make it look hot and I'm gonna make people want it, want it.

• 38:41Alex Cooper?

  Was any of that sudden like attention or validation healing immediately for you?

• 38:50Speaker 01

  I think the the thing that I found wonderful and I'll never I'll never not appreciate and love Christopher for that for this is that showing me that people, there was people that cared more about some other stuff and like.

• 39:06Speaker 01

  To be able to be, I I wouldn't have had a career without that and without him. Because especially when one brand wants you, then everyone wants you and the whole thing happens. And I was just like, but it also gave me a pretty fickle view and a bit of a chip on my shoulder of like, you all told me I was not good enough and you all made me feel like dog shit. And now you all want me and that sucks. But also, fuck you. Look where I am now, bitch. And I did fucking, like, I I loved it. I enjoyed it. I loved going to shows and everyone at that point being very like modeling is important. You know, I don't know what accent it is, but like just it being so serious. And I was like, what are we all doing here? Let's get crazy. Let's put on my favorite shoes. Let's put on Biggie Smalls and fucking go.

• 39:50Speaker 01

  Like, I loved shaking everything up because I was like, people taking my picture. I'm going to do weird faces because I don't take this seriously and I don't feel pretty. Like, what am I doing? Everyone thought I was either very annoying, which I can see how I was. Like, I can look back at myself and go, wow, that would have really, this little thing just bubbling around. But also like, it's a lot. Um, or people were like, wow, that's different.

• 40:15Alex Cooper?

  I was gonna say, I remember, obviously, we think of models and we just expect them to be seen and not really heard.

• 40:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:22Alex Cooper?

  And you brought this personality that was, even if we didn't hear you actually speaking, was just like popping off the page. And it was so loud and it was so exciting to see. But I agree, I do remember some backlash of people being like,

• 40:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 40:38Alex Cooper?

  What the fuck is this girl doing? What is she doing?

• 40:41Speaker 01

  You're not taking it seriously. You're not working hard. You're not, which, but to me, I was like,

• 40:47Speaker 01

  it didn't, I was like, we're taking photos here and we're like, isn't the vibe of like, if we're all sitting here being really super serious, like, no one's having fun. I don't really understand. Isn't it lucky that we get to do this? But then enjoy it, play music, have fun and sing and dance. And anyone that, especially at that time, who knew me as a model, all I would do is sing and dance and be, that's what made me feel comfortable on set.

• 41:11Alex Cooper?

  But did you ever have people be like, you need to stop?

• 41:15Speaker 01

  They just wouldn't hire me. They just don't hire you or or you know, they do it once and then you never work with them again. But that but you know, I had people it was I was pretty polarizing. I was quite vocal about how I didn't think modeling was like the fashion industry was healthy for girls and for so many people. I was in a really a fortunate position and was in a top percentage where I was making money, but so many of these girls were taken from countries and parents and the agencies. I was very like. That was why I started really feeling quite empty because I didn't like what I was representing. And when little girls would come up to me and their moms and they'd be like, my daughter wants to be a model because of you. And I was like, don't.

• 41:58Speaker 01

  Don't do it.

• 41:59Alex Cooper?

  That's a weird feeling, Cara, because you're like, the thing that I'm doing for a living.

• 42:02Speaker 01

  I don't believe in it. I don't believe what I'm selling and what I'm selling is a lie. Sorry. That's what it felt like, though, because it also wasn't me. Like, it was me, but I was so like, when I'd see a billboard of myself, it wasn't me.

• 42:16Alex Cooper?

  Oh, God, that's a mindfuck.

• 42:18Speaker 01

  Because it's not. I'm a girl who wears a hoodie, smoking a joint, like fucking walking around bare feet and like like a little rosser. Like, I'm not this like, what? The billboard, like, it didn't make sense. My friends found it very bizarre. Like, I came back from doing Victoria's Secret and my friends were like, I remember I had so many guy friends at the time and they were like, we didn't know you were like hot. I was like, what? And then they were all trying to like, they were like, which one of us is going to fuck up us? I was like, this is horrible. Like, I'm no different. It's just a bad bra and latex.

• 42:52Alex Cooper?

  I do think, though, something, and that is why you've had such success, is because you have never dimmed that side of yourself and you have stayed persistent and consistent in the day you got into this industry and the fun, kooky faces that you brought and the personality. I think that as alienating as it probably was in the beginning, because you're all like, we guys, we all are in on this, right? This is fucking crazy that they're doing this to these women and we're, some of us are really privileged.

• 43:18Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 43:19Alex Cooper?

  From where we come from. So we don't have to maybe do certain things, but you're like.

• 43:23Speaker 01

  And it's also to do with the, you know, the body, the body stuff, the body shaming, how skinny everyone was, the racism, the everything surrounding it, the like, it was really. It was a pretty rough time. In fact, I mean, listen, the nineties and everything were different because I think everyone was on drugs, but it turned into a thing where like, everyone just became really mean. It was just mean and people would do things and really degrade you because even if you were a really big model, you know, someone be like, why don't you stand on her head in a high heel? Or why don't you get on your like all fours and bark like a dog? That's kind of like, because it made people who had been in the industry, who were assistants, who'd been treated badly, feel big and feel important.

• 44:06Speaker 01

  And it was just like, oh, I'll do anything you say because I just.

• 44:10Alex Cooper?

  Right. And they're perpetuating what actually was so painful to them coming into the industry and then it just keeps going and going and going. And then it does take people like you, though. That's what I'm saying. It's like, at first it probably was alienating, but then I do think you refusing to conform in some capacity, allowed room for other women coming up to look and be like, oh, well, look at what Cara Delevingne's doing. Like, if she can do it, I can do my own version of that.

• 44:34Speaker 01

  It makes me so happy when I see models and I'm, I'm never gonna be like, it's, it was me. It's not, but it definitely, I think with social media and people having more of a voice, I also think that was something that allowed me to feel like, oh, I am a person actually, and I can, oh, this is fun. And if I don't talk, then what else am I here for? Like, I don't know. And to see people like Alex Constanti and stuff who I like, it's just so, the personalities now and like, it makes me so happy because it does make me feel more that, more, there's still a lot of work that needs to be done in the world in general, but that at least people are being celebrated for being individual in their personalities, which it was back in the day.

• 45:17Alex Cooper?

  And I think we have to recognize as women that like, when you felt like, oh God, I'm kind of this outlier doing this, it feels that way, but then now like you're referencing Alex and all these other people, you clearly were able to do something that then allowed some room for the next generation to do something and it will just continue, but like, it feels small, but in the collective, if you look at history of what women who pushed the boundaries do, like what is that quote? It's like, well behaved women rarely make history. And it's like, here we fucking go.

• 45:47Speaker 01

  Well, I remember seeing something, I think it was Jane Fonda who talked about when she was younger, making funny faces. And I don't know why I did it. I never really understood why. I never tried. I wasn't trying to do it. It's because I felt so not pretty and I felt so stupid. Posing all the time that I I had to do something with my face. I never do that anymore. Maybe it's because I don't want to get wrinkles, but also because like I feel way more comfortable. But I remember her talking about it and I was like, oh my God, it's this thing I can't control. Like maybe felt like a bit of a tick, like I do have ticks. So I think it could have also been that. But it was interesting, especially when you learn more about women who come before you and

• 46:26Speaker 01

  women who pave the way, they're very, they're always, you know, they're more more likely to rewrite history. Exactly what you're saying by not conforming.

• 46:35Alex Cooper?

  It is. And it's almost like Freudian for us. Like you had that thing of Jane Fonda and it seeped into you. And then someone is thinking unknowingly about Cara Delevingne as they are going into their field. So it's like, it all is a trickle down effect.

• 46:47Speaker 01

  I mean, I definitely stick my tongue out still, but that's.

• 46:49Alex Cooper?

  We love that version of you, Cara. Um, I have a couple of pictures. I was thinking about it.

• 46:54Speaker 01

  Oh, no.

• 46:55Alex Cooper?

  Social media.

• 46:56Speaker 01

  Oh, God, yeah.

• 46:58Alex Cooper?

  A reason you also, you just said it yourself, like you were able, I think for us to see your personality and you were able to shine is because Tumblr, social media, like that was such a huge part of you when you kind of came on the scene. So I have a couple of pictures. I just want your reaction to them.

• 47:15Speaker 01

  Okay, like facially?

• 47:17Alex Cooper?

  Anything, whatever you want.

• 47:18Speaker 01

  An interpretive dance.

• 47:19Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 47:20Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 47:21Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 47:21Speaker 01

  Still have that T-shirt.

• 47:22Alex Cooper?

  You do?

• 47:23Speaker 01

  Yeah. And that hat. Oh, my God, I'm honored. I told you this.

• 47:25Alex Cooper?

  This photo, it like broke Tumblr back in the day, obviously.

• 47:31Speaker 01

  I wasn't so, I wasn't super aware of Tumblr. When people talk about it now, I was like, oh, yeah, I never.

• 47:37Alex Cooper?

  You were like the face of Tumblr.

• 47:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't know. I wasn't aware. No, I wasn't aware. I really wasn't.

• 47:43Alex Cooper?

  People still comment this photo in your comment section on TikTok? Like this photo, Cara.

• 47:50Speaker 01

  I love.

• 47:51Alex Cooper?

  Do you remember anything about where this was taken, what this photo is?

• 47:55Speaker 01

  No.

• 47:55Alex Cooper?

  Nothing.

• 47:56Speaker 01

  No idea. No, babe, there are so many photos of myself that I see and I'm like, couldn't tell you when, where, who took it. No idea.

• 48:02Alex Cooper?

  Okay, every girl wanted the eyebrows. They kind of were like a staple. Do you remember the commentary on the eyebrows? And did it make you more self-conscious or more confident?

• 48:14Speaker 01

  Really good question. I hated my eyebrows. My mother was always like, you gotta, you gotta keep him. But I don't, I don't know. I just remember as I got older, I, when I say I don't remember any of it, I think because fame is even more powerful of a

• 48:33Speaker 01

  whatever's happened to my central nervous system, I was so completely burnt out and shocked. I was like, I'm just gonna black this all out. Like, I really, that wasn't even when I was do, I think I was doing more drugs when I was a teenager. And that period of time, I was just working so much. Obviously, I was probably partying a bit. But

• 48:51Speaker 01

  yeah, I don't know. It's, it's when I got older and people would ask me about my eyebrows all the time. It made, it annoyed me. I was like, please.

• 48:56Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, I have other things.

• 48:58Speaker 01

  I was like, I can't talk for them. I wish they could speak, but I don't know how to explain them. I don't know what they would say, like what? I, I, it's like trying to represent a part of your body that I wish had a voice. It doesn't, I'm so sorry.

• 49:10Alex Cooper?

  Okay, here we go.

• 49:11Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, I love that photo. I love that.

• 49:13Alex Cooper?

  So good. What do you remember about this iconic photo?

• 49:16Speaker 01

  I do remember that because it was around the time where it was like me, Jordaan and Carly, and we were all Leos and we were bopping around New York and they were like the height that models were meant to be at that point, which was like six foot and I was five foot seven and a half. I say five eight, but whatever. And that, again, I'd love, I loved a statement tee. I loved a cap. I don't even know if I thought I was gay at that point, but I was eating a sticker saying, eat, treat your girl right. Eat your girl right. Yeah. I, I, I remember that photo. I don't remember it being taken, but I remember seeing it.

• 49:49Alex Cooper?

  Okay. I love this for you. Um, okay, next photo.

• 49:53Speaker 01

  Yeah. This is fun. Oh, God.

• 49:55Alex Cooper?

  This is you at the Victoria's Secret Fashion Show in 2012.

• 49:59Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 50:00Alex Cooper?

  Is it true you were originally supposed to come out on roller blades?

• 50:03Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 50:04Alex Cooper?

  And why are you like shying away and looking and blushing? What is this bringing up for you?

• 50:10Speaker 01

  Because I, anyone that asked me if I could.

• 50:15Speaker 01

  Rollerblade, juggle, drive a car, anything that I couldn't do, I'd be like a hundred percent I could do that. I couldn't, wasn't good, uh, because I always, I had a confidence that I, if I learnt, if I really tried to do something that I could. I mean, they asked me to do that maybe a day before and uh, in the rehearsals. And whatever rollerblading, is it skating? It was the four wheels. Skating down the thing and the, the cowog is slippery. I was closing that section, I think at that point. And I fell and Justin caught me and they were like, oh, you have to do that again, right? You have to close the show like that. I was like, sorry. Basically because I didn't know how to stop at the end. So I fell and he caught me and that was very sweet.

• 51:01Speaker 01

  But I was like, I don't know, on like live TV, like, no, I can't do that. And that's probably one of the first times I said, no. But also those shows, like I was not sober, uh, in the sense that like.

• 51:15Speaker 01

  I don't want to speak for the rest of the girls, but like, that is not a nice, it wasn't a nice environment personally.

• 51:23Speaker 01

  I think something about.

• 51:26Speaker 01

  I don't know what my gender express, I know what my gender expression would be. I'm very happy and proud of being a woman. But it definitely changed.

• 51:37Speaker 01

  How feminine I. What is the word? How feminine I seem or come off because of modeling. Cause it felt like that was a part, like I, growing up, I was like, I had short hair. I didn't like having long hair. I didn't like wearing girls clothes. Like I really. Didn't like being a girl because I just thought that girls didn't get the same opportunities. They didn't get to play with the toys that I wanted to play with and I didn't wanna. You know, that kind of stuff. So I think for modeling, I really had to become this. Girl that I wasn't and this like sexy, like that's just not.

• 52:13Alex Cooper?

  And this was peak, like.

• 52:15Speaker 01

  That.

• 52:16Alex Cooper?

  Presenting so presenting.

• 52:18Speaker 01

  Presenting.

• 52:19Alex Cooper?

  Presenting.

• 52:20Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 52:20Alex Cooper?

  You were presenting so ultra feminine.

• 52:23Speaker 01

  And I'm not that.

• 52:24Alex Cooper?

  And that's not who you are.

• 52:25Speaker 01

  At all.

• 52:26Alex Cooper?

  And so before.

• 52:26Speaker 01

  But that, that was fun. It felt like dress up, but then there was something darker about it that I. Because also that show like I was in the closet. I was gay. I was also like, am I the only like lesbians ever done fucking Victoria's Secret? Like this is a big deal. Yeah, shake your ass. It's got, you want me to do up your bra like a hundred percent? Hmm? Like I was having a great time, but also like very confused. I felt like I was an undercover lesbian.

• 52:53Alex Cooper?

  No, you're backstage being like, no one knows, but.

• 52:58Speaker 01

  Okay, I remember seeing Candace Swanepoel and being like, I faint. I like, this is such a weird story. Oh my God. We were in a, we were in a hotel room eating pizza and I can't remember. I hope she doesn't get angry. Time telling this story was really funny. She came in the bathroom. I think maybe we were smoking a joint. I already know. She came in the bathroom and she took, like she took off her clothes, not in a sexual way, but that's what models do. And I passed out.

• 53:23Alex Cooper?

  Cora.

• 53:25Speaker 01

  I fully passed out or like I, I was like standing up and I had to fall back on the toilet. And she was like, are you okay? I was like, mm-hmm, a hundred percent. I'm fucked. Are you okay? I'm gonna, I have something in my eye, you know?

• 53:35Alex Cooper?

  You're like, I gotta get out of here. I.

• 53:37Speaker 01

  It was a lot, like the gay panic. People talk about gay panic now, like I was constantly.

• 53:42Alex Cooper?

  You were panicking. And I think, I think that really makes sense though. Now looking back, like first of all, this baby Cara having so many, I can't.

• 53:52Speaker 01

  I can't, I can't.

• 53:53Alex Cooper?

  With, with the butt up.

• 53:55Speaker 01

  Again, I woke up, probably had a couple of shots of whiskey and a Xanax.

• 53:59Alex Cooper?

  And you wouldn't get, you wouldn't get nervous to walk a runway on.

• 54:02Speaker 01

  Not after that. I was having a time in my life after that. Horrible.

• 54:07Alex Cooper?

  I think, um, I do think that is so though, just illuminating to that entire time period because I do think that seeing you up there, so many women would look at you and just be like, I want to look like her. I want to be her. And that's real life though. This is like the same shit as Instagram where you're like, babe.

• 54:26Speaker 01

  No.

• 54:27Alex Cooper?

  Not sober.

• 54:28Speaker 01

  The amount of cutlets in that, like especially because like everyone else was very like womanly bodies and like, you know, skinny and musky and whatever else. But I was, I am still up and down like a little rig. Like I have no ass. Like at that point I was like, I'm not a Victoria's Secret angel. I'm a devil. Like I'm not. Part of this. I remember when they asked me to be when I was like, I don't think I belong here. Like, I don't think this is.

• 54:53Alex Cooper?

  And then you do it and it kind of goes back to the beginning of what you were saying about modeling where you're like, I don't fully know if I believe in this, so this feels weird. So I'm gonna numb myself essentially to get through it.

• 55:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:05Alex Cooper?

  Okay, this is so cute. Are you ready?

• 55:10Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Hi.

• 55:14Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 55:14Speaker 01

  Kate, Kate.

• 55:15Alex Cooper?

  The internet is obviously obsessed with you and Kendall Jenner's relationship and all the iconic photos we have of the two of you. Do you remember who came up with this friendship name? Was it you guys or was it the internet?

• 55:28Speaker 01

  No, it was us. Oh, God, I don't remember. I don't know, but I had necklaces made, bro. We were. I think it was us. I'm pretty Clara Kendall, Kate. I don't know, actually. That is a super good question.

• 55:43Alex Cooper?

  Okay, but you leaned in.

• 55:44Speaker 01

  No, but maybe it was that love cover that we did for the first time, which is where we basically really became friends and met that. Maybe it was on that cover.

• 55:50Alex Cooper?

  Hmm.

• 55:50Speaker 01

  Where I'm holding her or she's holding. I don't remember, but that was.

• 55:54Alex Cooper?

  When you have such like iconic friendships that the internet is obsessed with, like, do you enjoy leaning in and doing stuff like this?

• 56:03Speaker 01

  I think at that point it was so, because it felt like at that point we were like,

• 56:08Speaker 01

  especially when you have friendships, when you're modeling like that, it makes, I wouldn't have been able to do it with any of those girls that supported me through it, like, especially like, again, Jordan Dunn and like women who even before Kendall, when I was really young, that they were fucking worried about me, you know, and they were ones being like, what are you doing? Like, this is so bad. You're working too much, like, you know, whether it's agents are giving you drugs to walk on catwalks or whatever else, like it was, I had really, really solid friendships of people who were really honest with me. So when you have that camaraderie, yeah, you want to lean in. People are gonna take a picture of your model. At that point, you're like,

• 56:47Alex Cooper?

  Let's go.

• 56:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, we're on a world tour. That was our, you know, we went to, I took Kendall to Glastonbury and Gigi was hysterical.

• 56:52Alex Cooper?

  Oh my, that's amazing.

• 56:53Speaker 01

  It's hysterical.

• 57:03Alex Cooper?

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• 57:45Alex Cooper?

  They let you learn what you want with over 200 career-focused programs, where you want with 100% online courses, and how you want with no set class times. Basically, you get to call the shots from day one. Visit snhu.edu/callherdaddy to learn more. This is a paid ad by BetterHelp. So anytime that I am finding myself having a habit that I just cannot kick, I'm like, okay, I need to talk about this in therapy. Listen, guys, everyone has habits, mindsets, or patterns that don't serve them, but recognizing what they are and learning how to let them go can be so important. It's literally the first step towards creating meaningful change. And therapy with BetterHelp, one of the leading online therapy platforms, can be a space

• 58:30Alex Cooper?

  to explore where those patterns come from and develop healthier habits and mindsets for a more fulfilling life. With over 30,000 therapists worldwide, BetterHelp has served millions of people globally. BetterHelp makes it easier to fit therapy into your routine with flexible ways to connect that work for different schedules and lifestyles. Plus, BetterHelp therapists have at least three years and 1,000 hours on-hand experience and hold all required education, training, and certifications. You can meet with a range of professionals from marriage and family therapists to social workers and counselors. So daddy gang, if you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try.

• 59:10Alex Cooper?

  Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com/daddy. That's betterh-e-l-p.com/daddy.

• 59:20Alex Cooper?

  I think that, you know, you're talking about having like externally, all these crazy levels of success, right? And you have said before, and I think this quote is really profound. You said, if you have problems going into this industry, they will only get magnified and exacerbated. How did your career heighten all of these wounds from childhood for you?

• 59:45Speaker 01

  Access to excess of money, you know, and my dad was pretty smart with me when I left school because he was like, I'm not gonna give you money, you know, you can't, I'm not gonna fund whatever they thought or maybe didn't think. I remember when I had a mental breakdown, I told them I'd been smoking weed. Like, they didn't know I was doing drugs, but either way, they, they didn't cut me off. I still lived at home, but they weren't like,

• 1:00:12Speaker 01

  you know, they were smart about that. But then I had my own fucking money. I could do whatever I wanted and I knew where to get all the drugs and all the things. And I also was in a friendship group that they, none of my friends have money. So I was just like, let's go, let's fucking go. Like, this is gonna be so fun. And at that point, you know, we were like, it's gonna be entourage, we're all gonna live, you know, love that.

• 1:00:37Alex Cooper?

  I also can't help but think like, you're in the middle of trying to figure yourself out because we talked about like, high school, you're repressing, you're kind of using so you can just be like, I can't handle this. I don't know what's going on. You get thrown into fame and like you've talked about, and I've talked about with a lot of people, like, there is no way to describe it, but it's hard to not just blackout and you can look back on it. But when you're in it, you just have to survive and go, go, go. And so you're trying to figure yourself out. You have all this attention on you. How was this impacting your dating life? And like you said, that Victoria's Secret moment, you hadn't come out yet. You hadn't, you know, explored your sexuality fully.

• 1:01:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:11Alex Cooper?

  Tell me about that.

• 1:01:12Speaker 01

  Well, also, back to what you just said before as well, I, it's also an identity thing. And I think when you come from being like, what feels like a kind of traumatized child, not to be dramatic about it, to then a suicidal, druggie teenager, to then being a model that you're not, but you're pretending to be so many things for people.

• 1:01:39Speaker 01

  You actually, I'm like, who the hell, I haven't processed any of this yet. This is all a mess. And I'm, none of these things or all of them, I really felt like such a shell at that point. And a real like, I remember writing a lot about how I just was a mirror of everyone I'd ever met. And there was nothing underneath it. I was just an empty vessel, not to be depressing about it, but especially with dating. Oh my God, I.

• 1:02:10Speaker 01

  I.

• 1:02:12Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, it's rough because again, I didn't wanna be gay. I really wanted to fit in.

• 1:02:20Speaker 01

  With people in like, I didn't know many gay, I didn't know any gay people. I. Definitely wasn't straight, but I really like, and especially in something you've been so incredible in talking about like, I never knew how to ask for what I wanted. And it was very much a performative thing that I would be like, whatever this guy. And to the point where it's like, you know, whether it's sexual assault or it's like to the point where you're just like, oh, I'm just abusing myself to, to, to basically make someone happy. If you wanna have sex with me, I should feel lucky for that, like that kind of thing. Horrible, but then.

• 1:03:03Speaker 01

  You know, I discovered more about my sexuality through sleeping with my friends because there was a safety in that. That also didn't mean we were gay, you know, we all had boyfriends, but. Whatever, you know, whatever happens when the lights go off, that doesn't really mean anything. Um, but then I started to look back on when I was a kid and I was like, I always had this thing where with like friends of mine, I just think I cared about them more than they cared about me. But then I also realized that any man I'd ever been with, and I feel very bad for these men because they'd always.

• 1:03:41Speaker 01

  I think I'd play such a role of this cool girl who loved to play video games and would let them flirt with people, but was just like so cool and chill that they would fall in love with me. But I was so pretending to be something I wasn't. And I just felt, I felt, I feel any man that I hurt, I feel really bad because I did take these actually very nice guys for a ride because I didn't know. And I also, I was quite hurt by one guy specifically who took my virginity and I was like, after this, I'm going to hurt all of you. It's so rude and mean.

• 1:04:16Alex Cooper?

  But I do think it's like you, yes, you can be like, okay, I'm sorry, boys. But I also think in the grand scheme of what you were trying to do.

• 1:04:23Speaker 01

  They didn't also want me. Even when I tried to speak about maybe my sexuality being exactly different, they were like, no, that's not, I'll show you that kind of stuff. It was very much like, but that was so back in the day.

• 1:04:34Alex Cooper?

  It's also so men where you're like, no, you can't show me shit. You don't have a vagina. Okay. So fuck off. And they're like, oh, I'll show you.

• 1:04:44Speaker 01

  And my clit is here. It's not here.

• 1:04:48Alex Cooper?

  Oh, wow, Cara. Okay, that makes, I think the um, so many women, regardless of, you know, what they're dealing with, I do think that's a really relatable thing of just going through that period as a young woman of being like, is this validation? Should I just feel good in this and should I not ask for more? And if he's treating me like this, like I can look past it because at least someone wants me and someone is, you know, giving me attention. And so then you.

• 1:05:15Speaker 01

  But when you said something about validation and it helping me, in my head, it really did because it helped my ego. It helped my ego in the sense that I was like, maybe I am pretty, but it didn't come from inside. I think something that I really had to learn is that I really believe that we all have everything we need inside of us. And I was so externally reaching for anything that like, I just was empty. And so you really have to like grow that garden in yourself, I guess.

• 1:05:44Alex Cooper?

  You do. And from, you know, like then experimenting with your friends, like, do you remember when you finally realized like, okay, I think it's women for me here.

• 1:05:54Speaker 01

  Immediately, deep down, immediately. But I couldn't, my brain was not computing that. It was not happening, like absolutely not. But my body was like, oh, this is where I feel safe. Oh, and then my heart, I couldn't control, like, I always felt like I was in control with men, like, I could go around the room with women, I was, and it was a nightmare. But also, I think I hadn't.

• 1:06:21Speaker 01

  There was still a lot of trauma with the thing of trying to fix people and the abandonment, which I think I put into a lot of my relationships. For a long time.

• 1:06:29Alex Cooper?

  When do you think your mind and your body connected and you were like, I have to accept this and?

• 1:06:36Speaker 01

  Um.

• 1:06:40Speaker 01

  I think. I think when I was in my first real relationship with a woman and I think.

• 1:06:49Speaker 01

  I'd never been with someone who was gay either. And. You know, we. She was ten years older than me. Uh. And I really admired her, but I, I, yeah, I'd never been with someone who was actually. Gay and not with kind of in secrecy and stuff like that. And I was like, oh, this is, this is everything.

• 1:07:11Alex Cooper?

  How did you feel with regard to your upbringing? And I know you had said, like, I didn't really have anyone around me who was gay and. And I didn't know with my parents or people around me, like, how, how did everyone? Handle it when you did come out and just say, like, this is who I am?

• 1:07:27Speaker 01

  Oof, uh, I didn't come out because. That's again, a conversation that.

• 1:07:35Speaker 01

  I didn't know how to have and I. I didn't feel like I owed that to anyone either. And I think it would be unfortunately different. And I think I would have found it a lot harder if I hadn't have been famous or successful because I think. You can't really. Have an opinion too much.

• 1:07:55Speaker 01

  When that person doesn't need you or is not vying for your. I mean, of course, I always want to make my parents proud, but I wasn't like. They couldn't stop me. And I felt like they would have been able to, uh, uh, they would have been able to have an opinion more if.

• 1:08:12Speaker 01

  I don't know. I think that was also just part of the drive of wanting to

• 1:08:17Speaker 01

  look after myself and survive on my own and be like I can do and be with whoever I want and

• 1:08:21Alex Cooper?

  I think that's very relatable. I think when you are financially or emotionally dependent on people, and I think that's why a lot of young kids are so scared to come out because they're like, I still live under their roof.

• 1:08:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:33Alex Cooper?

  I know what their reaction is probably going to be. And so it's so fear based because it's not just, you know, coming out and and being open about your sexuality, which would should be such a beautiful and celebrated thing. There's so many repercussions that can come that actually safety wise for a lot of people. It's just a, it is a privilege, unfortunately, which is so crazy to even have to say to this day.

• 1:08:54Speaker 01

  No, it is.

• 1:08:54Alex Cooper?

  So I see what you're saying where you're like, I had kind of cut those ties in that way of I made my own money. I was this public person. So if you don't like me, you can go fuck yourself, kind of.

• 1:09:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:04Alex Cooper?

  And what a freeing feeling that must have been.

• 1:09:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, but also at that point, the industry didn't want me to be gay either. You know, there was why, but like that point, that point, and when I just started acting, where like Harvey Weinstein called me and was like, you can't be gay. It's just stuff like that where I, again, there were also no real gay models, but it's weird because now you're now, as I've grown up, there are so many people I went to school with or people I was close with, who now are all gay, but we didn't know it at the time, but we were all friends. And you're like, that's just interesting. We all had this thing that we knew. And now everyone, you know, they have wives or got, and you're like, that's just, it's just crazy at that time.

• 1:09:51Alex Cooper?

  When you were trying to search for relationships, what do you think at, in those like mid twenties was holding you back the most from happiness?

• 1:10:04Speaker 01

  Because I couldn't love, I couldn't receive love and I don't think.

• 1:10:09Speaker 01

  I didn't love myself enough to have healthy sexual experimentation in the sense that

• 1:10:19Speaker 01

  I think I had my healthy fair share of sexual experimentation, but it was usually fueled by uh drugs, danger-seeking behaviour, situations where I thought, oh, that's a fantasy I have. But I didn't really actually want that, you know, and I think that came into that thing of just wanting to feel something, even if it's bad and even if it's empty and

• 1:10:47Speaker 01

  yeah, and I also think it took it took until all the Harvey stuff too, to really realise that I had been sexually abused and I hate to use the word rape, it just always makes me so sad, but that, that, that kind of thing and I'd put myself in those positions but never admitted it or wanted to deal with it or made excuses for it, felt bad. But that made so much sense with how I would

• 1:11:16Speaker 01

  just let people use me a lot, whether that be sexually or in any other way, because I felt like that's all I was good for sometimes.

• 1:11:25Alex Cooper?

  So can I ask, so he called you and, and told you you cannot be gay and is this before or after this experience with this man?

• 1:11:35Speaker 01

  So, no, it was wait, it was before. It was still when everyone was doing these movies, bopping around. You know, he had his wife who was, you know, in that industry, you know, I've been to dinner with both of them with a bunch of people. You know, he had a wife and kids to seem safe, right?

• 1:11:56Speaker 01

  And he got my number, I was doing a movie called Face of an Angel in Italy and he called me up and said, there are images of you. And he named some famous women I'd been seen with and he was like, I don't need to know, he said, are you sleeping with him, whatever, I was like, I don't really know if that's any of your business. And he was like, well, you can't, you can't be with women, you'll never be an actress, you'll never be hired, people don't want.

• 1:12:27Speaker 01

  You know, we'll have to find you a boyfriend. At least if you're gonna do that, just do it behind coast doors. And I was like, what the fuck is this? I was and also, but at that point, that wasn't my reaction. I was like, oh, fuck. I've always wanted to act like this is such a big deal for me. I can't.

• 1:12:42Alex Cooper?

  You're terrified.

• 1:12:43Speaker 01

  This is, yeah, like he's a big deal in this shit.

• 1:12:47Alex Cooper?

  And how did you respond in that moment?

• 1:12:49Speaker 01

  I don't know. I just said, I'm not gay. I promise you, I'm not. I I just, I'm not seeing a boy right now. I really love my female friends. And of course I didn't. I think even the people he brought up, I I don't know, I can't even remember, but.

• 1:13:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was I was pretty terrified.

• 1:13:06Alex Cooper?

  Of course, because it's a person in a position of power who's literally talking about how you won't work in this industry. If you essentially are authentic and true to who you are. And so you are just getting re confirmation of like, hide, keep suppressing.

• 1:13:23Speaker 01

  But also at that point, like, you know, and still, I I

• 1:13:28Speaker 01

  I regret not. It's not a regret. I don't have regrets. But every role I played at that point was straight. I was the lead and I had a boyfriend and, you know, I was playing that woman. So, I mean, was he right at that time? No, but at at that point, what was I gonna do?

• 1:13:47Alex Cooper?

  Right. And again, I think for you, Cara, it was like, there's so much pressure of like, the Victoria's Secret moment and this, you're like, I know what I want, but it's like, how do I get there? Like, how do I roll this out for myself in a way that won't make other people upset and won't have people trying to hurt me because of me just trying to be honest to myself. And that is so complicated. And then, like you said, like, you then are in these situations where you're, you know, you're using and you're trying to suppress and then you're also repressed. And it's like, whoa, I need all this to kind of stop so I can try to get my head on straight. I know you have like lightly spoken about your sobriety.

• 1:14:26Speaker 01

  Not a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:14:27Alex Cooper?

  A lot. And you talked about this earlier too, where you've said you tried to match the emotional pain inside with physical pain on the outside since a very young age. Can you talk more about what that just like looked like for you as you kind of started to get to peak where you were like, maybe this is getting a little out of control? Yeah.

• 1:14:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think.

• 1:14:52Speaker 01

  You know, as I said, when I first started doing drugs, it was that seeking connection. And I felt like I found myself, you know, I was fun and I loved music and I loved dancing and I was like, oh, this is someone I really like. This is really cool. It was at a pretty young age I started. Because I didn't have money at that point, I started buying drugs to sell them and to do them. And I remember.

• 1:15:23Speaker 01

  Ketamine was really the first thing that I think. Which, which is a really crazy thing for me now, because I remember. When I got sober from that, and that was in my early twenties. Then it blew up in America and it was like this thing to treat depression everywhere, Instagram adverts. Billboards, people talking about it. I was like, what?

• 1:15:47Speaker 01

  I mean, I knew it numbed me out like a hundred percent. But like a lot of things. People don't realize the danger behind that because. How badly are the things you're running away from and how badly when you numb them, they all come flooding back. They don't go away. They don't.

• 1:16:07Speaker 01

  So that's when I think, when I, when I bought the drugs to sell, I just did them all by myself. Not all of them. I sold half of them, did the rest. So I basically did the drugs for free. Wasn't a great drug dealer, but um, I definitely. I knew it was bad when I started doing them alone and how much I liked that and how much I knew that people weren't judging me and I didn't judge myself for it.

• 1:16:32Speaker 01

  And I could disappear and that, I knew it was a problem. And that was young, but with work.

• 1:16:42Speaker 01

  It's not a problem because I'm working, I'm making money. You know, it's.

• 1:16:48Speaker 01

  You know, I would be in a state or I'd definitely be more fucked up than people, but I am going to work. When you're twenties, you can kind of do that a little more.

• 1:16:58Speaker 01

  But then my body just couldn't take it, you know, I think.

• 1:17:03Speaker 01

  I also, again, I think the kind of suicidal ideation came back around when I was at my height of fame. When I should have been the most happy and I felt the most guilty and I felt the most like I didn't deserve any of it. And I was so close to ending my life, not, I mean, yeah, I was, music at that moment really saved me.

• 1:17:29Speaker 01

  Because a song came on on shuffle. When I was alone in this hotel room and it was a song that played at a friend's funeral who died of an overdose. And it was a really. It was like, that's the thing when you're in that position where you can choose to try and end your life or not, that it is such a quick flip. And in that one moment, I was like, what am I doing? Why am I doing this? I, I can't believe that I am in this place. And I threw all the drugs down the toilet and I, um. So, yeah, it, it, it had been a problem, but when you're successful and when you seem you're doing great, you have your hair and makeup done.

• 1:18:15Speaker 01

  It's kind of fine. People make excuses. People are making money. You're paying for people's lives and jobs and kids, you know, you don't. You don't want to stop. You don't want to say no.

• 1:18:26Alex Cooper?

  Did you have friends close to you that ever were like, Cara?

• 1:18:32Speaker 01

  Yes, but also I was good.

• 1:18:36Speaker 01

  If I say I was good at hiding it, people will be like, no, you weren't. But if people thought it was bad what they saw, they didn't see half of it. The damage was really being done alone.

• 1:18:48Speaker 01

  Because that's where no one could stop me. And also, I was so good at flitting around different countries and different groups of friends. If I haven't slept for three days, but then I see these group of friends and I still, whatever, no one knows how long I haven't slept. No one knows that I've been partying for this long. It's, you can kind of.

• 1:19:07Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, you can get away with it in a way that, but unfortunately for you, it's like then you also have, you're like, oh, I'm, I'm lying and I'm avoiding.

• 1:19:17Speaker 01

  The lying is the worst. It's horrible. It's a secret. It's like, and that just wears away at you so much. And that was also, I didn't realize how many friends I lost, not even lost, but had pushed away. Because there was nothing no one could do and I didn't want help. I didn't want people close to me. I didn't want people, you know, I could talk about it when I was high. I'd be like, I know I have a problem. Like, I know it's really bad, la la. But also there's a power in having that because then you seem really self-aware.

• 1:19:50Alex Cooper?

  Right. You're like, I'm owning it.

• 1:19:52Speaker 01

  I know. It's bad. Like, I know how bad it is and da, da, da, da. And I had all the answers. I'd also been to therapy since I was a kid from stuff that had gone on with my mom. So I knew all the chat and like.

• 1:20:02Alex Cooper?

  Uh huh. You knew how to get around it. So people were like, oh, well, if she's this open about it then. But really it had also come, it seems like you earlier had said, like, it was so, I connected with people. And it's like, it went from connecting to then isolating and hiding. And that is when, yeah, then no one's really seeing at its worst. I know there were paparazzi photos of you.

• 1:20:26Speaker 01

  There were many, by the way, throughout my, throughout my tenure. I don't know why I just said tenure. But no, obviously the, the worst ones.

• 1:20:34Alex Cooper?

  The Burning Man. Yes. The Burning Man photos. Ultimately, I know they kind of became a wake up call. Um, can you talk to me about like, just where you were at mentally, leading up to that moment?

• 1:20:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I had sworn myself off love. I had been in too many relationships.

• 1:21:01Speaker 01

  I don't wanna say

• 1:21:05Speaker 01

  that I think, you know, when you abuse yourself, you allow abuse to happen, right? That's as probably far as I'll go with that. But I think. Yeah, I was done with love and

• 1:21:16Speaker 01

  I was in a pretty hardcore time. Again, I'd stopped doing ketamine, but I was. It's really interesting, the drugs that people choose to do and what that means that they're covering up. Alcohol was never really my thing. I would drink, but it wasn't, I didn't like it. I liked like disassociate, knock yourself out things. So I was doing a lot of like GBL, GBH, which is like a date rape drug. Which is, you're just effectively knocking yourself out and then uh, taking like cocaine or whatever to keep me awake. So it was that kind of like mixture. But I'd met my girlfriend, my current girlfriend, my life partner, who we went to school together. And from the moment that we had re-met after school,

• 1:22:01Speaker 01

  I was like, fuck, you make me feel safe. And that is something I haven't felt. And I am way more terrified of that than I've ever been of love. Because in that even immediate moment, I was like, hmm, oh no. I'm starting to realise how bad this is. You don't know how bad it is when you're alone and single, I guess. And

• 1:22:27Speaker 01

  I was honest with her. From the first get-go, I was like, I have a problem. I take G every day. I'm gonna get better. I'm gonna, my thirtieth birthday was that year. I was like, I've fucking gained it for however long and had a great time and it's just not great anymore. But I'm gonna have a blowout thirtieth birthday and then I'm gonna get sober and it tied up in a neat little bow that I just thought was gonna be really easy. Um, I didn't know how addictive that stuff was. I just thought I took it every day. I didn't know you really had to like medically detox from it. And I started having seizures.

• 1:23:09Speaker 01

  And that's literally, those photos were taken right after I'd had a seizure at Burning Man.

• 1:23:16Speaker 01

  And I was meant to go to work. I mean, it was just. Absolute storm and also it was just, it was so rough and it was right after my birthday. So I'd had the thirtieth, which was just me in, it was so stupid, but I'd rented this amazing house and I'd had all my friends there. But they were kind of all there to watch me hurt myself. I was so skinny and covered in bruises and I just locked myself in this little tower. And would barely come out. And that is like, but that was what I, I just, I don't know. There's something quite traditional in the sense that when I'm like, when I make this decision, it's gonna happen. I also just couldn't give up that easily.

• 1:23:57Speaker 01

  Um, cause then obviously I went straight to Burning Man, then that happened. And I was like, I can get sober. I'd been to rehab before. But I'd focus more on trauma. And then I'd kind of dip back into things. I was like, if I don't, you know, the one thing I always told myself was. Cause my mom did very heavy drugs. I was like, if I don't do meth or crack or opiates, I'll be fine. If you do enough of anything, it's just as bad. Um. Which is really interesting, which is why also I found it. I found it important not to talk about what drugs I did. But then it's interesting, the comments that people make when they're like.

• 1:24:36Speaker 01

  You know, go back and do meth and die and stuff like that. When I'm like, maybe I should have spoken about it. Why am I hiding? Because also I want people.

• 1:24:45Speaker 01

  I think especially getting sober. I didn't see anyone else who did the same drugs I did. And I was always like, oh, they do Adderall and alcohol and opiates and I don't. When you find someone who has a similar thing to you, it's like finding like a long lost sibling in a way. Cause you're like, you're running from a similar thing. There's a similar torsion there. There's a similar. The battle of it feels the same. So I felt it was necessary to, to talk about it today, I think, which I'd never done before.

• 1:25:17Alex Cooper?

  Well, I really respect that too.

• 1:25:18Speaker 01

  But the fact that I was, but people always thought that I was on such crazy drugs. I was like, a lot of those times though, I was so manic. And also I'm a super hyperactive person. I don't drink coffee and I am just.

• 1:25:31Speaker 01

  It's a lot.

• 1:25:33Alex Cooper?

  How, how does it feel to say it out loud?

• 1:25:37Speaker 01

  Nice.

• 1:25:39Speaker 01

  Nice and I'm sweating though for sure. But it's nice. I don't.

• 1:25:45Alex Cooper?

  Is it like a relief?

• 1:25:46Speaker 01

  My, my whole thing is, is again with this stuff. People are gonna take clips of what they want and that's always gonna be what it is, but I don't.

• 1:25:56Speaker 01

  I've made peace with it and if I can help people. Anyone can say whatever they want. I know what I've done. I'm happy with who I am. I don't have any regrets. I love myself. I've stopped hurting myself. I do sometimes still in ways that I like. Again, like dangerous behavior will push myself too hard to work out. It comes out in other ways. But also to me, sobriety is not so linear like.

• 1:26:22Speaker 01

  Twelve step really helped me, but that's not. What's been my saving grace and I think.

• 1:26:30Speaker 01

  Yeah. I think the whole thing of sobriety and the, the shame and the guilt surrounding it, I found really difficult.

• 1:26:40Alex Cooper?

  I can imagine that. I wanna, cause I wanna ask you about that, but also validating you in like. So much of what you were going through for so long, you were saying you were hiding and there was a secrecy element. And there was this rationalizing you're talking about in your head of like, well, I'm not doing what my mom was doing. So I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm fine. Right. And then it's almost like naming it allows you to. Own it in a sense and be like, there, that is, that is what it was. And I'm not hiding from it at all. I'm not hiding anymore. And I'm not going to hide from it because there is also no shame. And like you're sitting here today and you're right. It really could help someone who's sitting there being like, oh my God, I. Never thought that that could be addictive and I've been doing it too. And maybe I need to look at myself.

• 1:27:24Alex Cooper?

  Whatever it is, or it's just for yourself, that you're able to fucking say it. And move forward with your life in a way that's not shame and holding it back. Um, I think that's really beautiful.

• 1:27:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:34Alex Cooper?

  But getting sober.

• 1:27:38Alex Cooper?

  Also the element of being so public, like I can't help but think these videos and these photos come out in one of your worst moments.

• 1:27:44Speaker 01

  I always laugh and I don't know why I do that and I apologize. It's cause.

• 1:27:49Speaker 01

  It's so outrageous. I was wearing a Britney Spears t-shirt. Not that that means anything, but like it's, it's so, but also like I'd seen that person. I know that girl so well. I had to look at her every day in the mirror. So when everyone else saw her, I was like, oh, oh, that's scary to people. Oh, shit.

• 1:28:11Alex Cooper?

  I see. So you, it wasn't even, you're like, oh, those are pictures of me and then did.

• 1:28:15Speaker 01

  I mean, I realize it was bad, but oh, it was horrible. The shame. Oh, the shame was really bad. Again, that was that part of myself that I hated and I was hiding from everyone. So for everyone to see it, it was like,

• 1:28:36Speaker 01

  fuck, the jig's up.

• 1:28:40Speaker 01

  That still, that person is still a part of me though. Once you get sober, that, that girl isn't gone. She's here. She's pretty mean to me sometimes, but I made friends with her and she makes me wanna be better and God, she's a stubborn bitch sometimes, but my God. Yeah. I mean, you have to make friends with that part of yourself.

• 1:29:02Alex Cooper?

  So much of your, the songs and the album is like, is talking about this part of your life.

• 1:29:08Speaker 01

  Yes. Never ending inspiration.

• 1:29:11Alex Cooper?

  Can you talk though, cause you just said like, you know, it wasn't this 12 step program for you. Like what was that process for you like of getting sober and what really helped you?

• 1:29:24Speaker 01

  There's a narrative, right? About addiction, addiction. That is a, you know, abstinence is the most important thing and

• 1:29:34Speaker 01

  it's very rigid. I don't do well with that. But they also will tell you, you know, addicts always think they're different. You're always gonna think you are the one that's gonna cheat the system and da, da, da, da. For sure. I feel that way. I know it's not healthy. I know I have to combat that sometimes, but I also know that that system for me hadn't worked in the past.

• 1:30:00Speaker 01

  It didn't, there's a part of it where like, you know, whether it's, oh, I've decided to, I'm gonna try a microdose of mushroom, right? In previous iterations of sobriety, that would take me down. That, my, my count has gone back to zero again. I'm not sober. I can't call myself a sober person. Then that cycle of guilt and shame, oh, I'm done now. I'm not sober. So now I'm fucked up and now I'm gonna do drugs. Was so strong and such a pull that I also like in my head, when I'm told I can't do something. When I have the option to go, I could go have a beer, but I choose not to. The power I have in that

• 1:30:44Speaker 01

  is something I would never have realized I could get. And like, I love people doing drugs. Not, that sounds like a crazy thing, but I love the culture. I love music. I love festivals. I loved that part of going into a bathroom with loads of people and talking. So I still love doing that. I just don't do the drugs because they don't work for me. But I,

• 1:31:08Speaker 01

  the whole thing of like, you cannot do anything because this will happen and it was too.

• 1:31:14Speaker 01

  I would prefer to, I don't feel like they're mistakes, but I would prefer to toe a line of, I'm not trying to walk an edge. I'm never trying to go back to what I was doing. My priority is clarity, sobriety to the utmost. And loving myself. And so I never want to go back to that place. But I also think just pretending it doesn't exist and never seeing it and never doing it isn't how I get there.

• 1:31:40Alex Cooper?

  Giving yourself some grace.

• 1:31:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:31:51Alex Cooper?

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• 1:32:31Alex Cooper?

  Southern New Hampshire University gets it. They let you learn what you want with over 200 career-focused programs, where you want with 100% online courses, and how you want with no set class times. Basically, you get to call the shots from day one. Visit SNHU.edu/callherdaddy to learn more. In your new single, I Forgot, you describe-

• 1:32:57Speaker 01

  Do you know how much I say I forgot without knowing it now? And I say it every day. I'm like, I've got to stop. I forget a lot, apparently.

• 1:33:03Alex Cooper?

  Well, it's good because you named your song that.

• 1:33:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's ideal.

• 1:33:06Alex Cooper?

  Um, and now you'll never forget.

• 1:33:07Speaker 01

  Never. Never, never.

• 1:33:09Alex Cooper?

  You describe how jarring it can be to experience daily life while now sober. What were some of the first things you noticed and had to kind of confront as you really started to wean off what you had been using?

• 1:33:24Speaker 01

  Oh, I was just so fragile. I was so fragile. And I,

• 1:33:31Speaker 01

  you know, another, another point was that I, I first started talking about me getting sober for American Vogue when I was in rehab. And having that conversation and being like, I'm going to be sober now. This is what I'm doing. And I'm going to do a Vogue cover and now I'm going to talk about it. I was still, what I felt like was that I was a baby. I feel like a newborn child, but who can technically talk and walk and feed themselves, I guess, and hopefully change your underwear, but you don't, you are not fully formed. Your brain is like-

• 1:34:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, a lot. Again, I don't. When I was, I wrote a lot of that stuff and poetry. A lot more of it was so intense when I was using. So it wasn't as extreme. But you're just a raw nerve and that's what that song is about. I don't feel that way anymore. Thank God. But I still relate to it and I love that song because for me, it's that thing of

• 1:34:36Speaker 01

  like that softness of a phrase and then the whiplash of absolute distortion, like being slapped around the face with a sonic boom. And that's what it felt like being in my head and in my body. And when you talked about like your head and your, your body syncing up again, it's like my, my body and my head started to talk again. But that's what the different sounds were happening. It was just like.

• 1:35:02Alex Cooper?

  That's what you said in that Vogue piece. You said, I hadn't uncovered the fucking hole inside the real whirlpool within. Now, as you are that, because that was in 2023 and you're like, I was basically a baby deer walking around being like, guys, I know I'm saying I'm sober, but like this is.

• 1:35:19Speaker 01

  Bambi, all nice with the feet fucking spread over.

• 1:35:22Alex Cooper?

  We're trying here. Now it's like, what have you found inside of you that had been repressed and waiting to be uncovered of all of these wounds of childhood and repression and then you just get famous. So you don't have time to think about it. Like, has anything come up recently that you're like, I've now been able to kind of tackle this?

• 1:35:46Speaker 01

  That is the first question. I'm like, I, it's a really interesting question in the sense that you mean like tackling things that happened or that happened now or that things I've learned about myself?

• 1:36:00Alex Cooper?

  Anything, anything that you're like, oh my God, I realized from childhood because I was never able to feel the way that I da da da da da. Or when I was using, I felt this.

• 1:36:11Speaker 01

  Oh, anger. Straight back to anger.

• 1:36:14Alex Cooper?

  And where does the anger come from?

• 1:36:16Speaker 01

  I have a pit of anger in me. Because I never expressed it and I, I think, yeah, when you grow up loving someone who is sick and you can't help them and you would die to save them. And there's no reason for it. You have no one to blame. You can't really blame them. You try, doesn't work. You just hate yourself because they're sick. There is this fucking anger that you have, that you're just angry against the world and but then also angry at yourself for feeling angry because you're like, there are so many people with so much worse shit in this world. How do I feel? It's just, it's that, that cyclical thing.

• 1:37:00Alex Cooper?

  But anger is a secondary emotion.

• 1:37:03Speaker 01

  But I also, well.

• 1:37:04Alex Cooper?

  So what's underneath the anger, Cara?

• 1:37:07Speaker 01

  Oh, I don't know. I really love anger and my relationship with it now. It is a secondary emotion, but I also think

• 1:37:16Speaker 01

  for me, it's like a fire. I need it to come out. It doesn't have to be anyone, but it has to come out in a healthy way. Otherwise I hurt myself. That's it. So there isn't, and look, I cry, I would feel as much as I can, but there is something.

• 1:37:36Speaker 01

  I can't describe it and it feels like whatever stuff I had to deal with after I was coming off of drugs, I would blackout with, with, uh, with like a physical trauma thing and it came from this, I can't describe it. You just see red or black and sludge and I would wake up on another side of a room and it just comes from this like this repressed thing. And I think that's what the anger is. It's just the repression of so long of, it's just that. But with that comes so much creativity and fire and for this album too, like

• 1:38:19Speaker 01

  I feel like I can be angry and funny and sexy in a way that I like, not in like a way for anyone else and every emotion that I was scared of.

• 1:38:33Speaker 01

  I now see as like an amazing gift and I never had that. I was so scared of feeling.

• 1:38:41Alex Cooper?

  Well, I think that's well, yeah. And it's like you're making space for all of these different emotions that like you also weren't able to feel while you were using. And I I wrote that down. The other single, obviously, Out of My Head, which is great. I love it. It talks about these intrusive thoughts and dissociation. And now, having, you know, been living in your sobriety,

• 1:39:12Alex Cooper?

  how are you managing these emotions on a daily basis? Like, what what have you been able to process after coming out of that kind of dissociating?

• 1:39:20Speaker 01

  That song's really interesting because it was based on the idea of being at dinner with a family. Not mine specifically, but maybe. But being at a dinner with people and everyone's talking, but no one's saying the truth of what's really going on underneath. And originally, the song was called Talking Heads because everyone's just chatting and no one's really fucking saying it. And

• 1:39:45Speaker 01

  and that song, for me, it was funny because changing it to Out of My Head is something I constantly am trying to do is get out of my head and into my body. But people can take it as I want to get fucked, which I just like the dichotomy of that because I also don't want this album to be like, this is a sober album and people who have to listen to, I really have to understand. Like, I really, it's really interesting when I played it to people because people think it's about something completely different, which I love that part about music. How do I deal with it every day? It's really hard sometimes. This period of time, the last couple of weeks have been a lot harder than I've realized.

• 1:40:25Speaker 01

  Uh, like, I guess with rehearsals starting, but then going to the Met and Cannes and everything else and feeling like,

• 1:40:34Speaker 01

  This music coming out and this live shows is the most important thing that's ever happened in my life. And I am someone, and I used to be someone that used to go, well, this thing is my next goal, but then that needs to happen. And and then there's never enough. I I don't, I don't wanna say I'm dumb, I could die happy, but it is.

• 1:40:55Speaker 01

  Everything has led me to this point. And when I've done other things like movies or cabaret on the West End or something.

• 1:41:05Speaker 01

  There's other pressure on other people to make it good. So there's less pressure on you because you're like, everyone needs a show to be good, so it's gonna be good. It felt like it was way more on me, or I was putting it on me, because no one else is gonna be like, it needs, I mean, they are, but in the sense that I'm like.

• 1:41:24Alex Cooper?

  No, it's you, it's you.

• 1:41:25Speaker 01

  I'm doing this and I'm choosing to do this to myself and I'm driving myself crazy. Because the pressure I can put on myself is sometimes unmanageable. So, yeah, I mean, it takes a strain on on my relationship, on like, you know, my incredible girlfriend has been so supportive through this. I wouldn't have been able to do this without her, this whole process. She's a musician. I was so scared about what her reaction was gonna be.

• 1:41:51Alex Cooper?

  What was it?

• 1:41:52Speaker 01

  She was so incredible about it. I cried. It was so soon after I got out of rehab. And I remember every day I prayed, I prayed to create something with this pain and to have

• 1:42:06Speaker 01

  the clarity and the confidence and the awareness and all of it to be able to make something from it. And I didn't wanna name what it was, but I was like, what else would it be? Like, what else would it be? I write all this stuff. I've done music my whole life. This is not new for me. This is always something I believed I was gonna do when I was older. I just knew I couldn't do it until I had gotten to this place of belief and self-love. Um, but I remember crying to her in the shower and being like, I don't, I don't know what to do. But I have to do music and I don't know what you're gonna say. And I think in previous relationships, I'd had a thing of, whether it be competitiveness or, you know, some people may not take that well if that's their job or whatever.

• 1:42:51Speaker 01

  And.

• 1:42:54Speaker 01

  Especially because in in so much of the sense like, and I'm sure many people will say this, I've had a leg up. This is, I'm not starting from scratch here in terms of music. People are gonna listen to this. They might listen to it because they wanna hate it. Fair enough, but people are gonna have eyes on it more. That may be a gift, but it also might be a curse. But in that sense, I'm starting with a head start. And I never wanted to do this unless I thought it was incredible. And I hate saying that because I'm really not someone that believes in like, or feels proud of myself, but I really needed it to so that if anyone brought this out, it didn't matter that it would still be good and people would love it.

• 1:43:35Alex Cooper?

  Well, that's what it was so interesting. I was reading all these different quotes. You had once said, this is your biggest fear and your greatest love. You also said you were scared to explore music for a long time because you cared too much what other people would think.

• 1:43:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:43:47Alex Cooper?

  And now, obviously, we're hearing that progression of you now have gotten to a place where like, well, it is fucking perfect and I'm happy with it. So you better like it.

• 1:43:55Speaker 01

  It's not perfect. It's no way. Oh, trust me, there are notes. I still, there are so many things I would change, but.

• 1:43:59Alex Cooper?

  How long did you work on this?

• 1:44:02Speaker 01

  Directly, as soon as I got sober, I said to my team at the time, I have to get in the studio. And they were like,

• 1:44:10Speaker 01

  sure, but like, how, so many people are like, you really have to wanna do this. And I'm like, I get it. I really need to. I don't know what it's gonna be yet. You know, I've had many iterations of doing music and being in the studio. But again, I would mold myself into whoever the producer wanted me to be. And I was like, oh, my God, I can do that or this. And it just never felt right. So I just started from the get go. And in that first week of sessions, every single one of those songs is on this album. That first week was so, like, the first song is The Mask, which will come out. And then, I don't know, it it it every day was one of these songs and they were really heavy. Those first group of songs were really heavy. And over that period of time, I was like,

• 1:44:52Speaker 01

  I was finding the joy in it. I was finding my voice in it. I was trusting my creative instinct more.

• 1:44:59Speaker 01

  I don't know. It's definitely not perfect, but I I couldn't. I don't know. I didn't. I won't want to change it now. I I know how my head is and I could have worked on it forever.

• 1:45:10Alex Cooper?

  Of course.

• 1:45:10Speaker 01

  But yeah, it's been basically since then. And I think doing cabaret really helped. You know, I never.

• 1:45:19Speaker 01

  I performed live before, but really singing, no help with a mic every night moving around and really like. There's no hiding in that play. There's no soft like pop star like like tombré to your voice. You are fucking belting and screaming and crying and hitting yourself. And I was like. Oh, I can I can I can be that nuts, but I can do this for myself. Like, that's rad.

• 1:45:47Alex Cooper?

  I also am thinking about you sharing this first yes with your girlfriend. And then did you do like a listening party for friends?

• 1:45:55Speaker 01

  No, no, no, no.

• 1:45:57Alex Cooper?

  No, Cara. So like, has Margot Robbie heard it yet?

• 1:46:00Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:46:01Alex Cooper?

  Yes.

• 1:46:01Speaker 01

  What? No, Margot's had some.

• 1:46:05Speaker 01

  People have. Listen, I'm not, uh. Until things are done as well.

• 1:46:10Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 1:46:11Speaker 01

  I also like my girlfriend's incredible because she's fucking honest with me. And so I had to come back and be like, look how good this is. And she was like.

• 1:46:19Speaker 01

  So I was scared. I was scared, but I needed that from her because also when she would say something, I would go. No, no, actually, I like how it goes into like a weird time signature and bends and sounds like you're being slapped slapped around the head with a distortion. But yeah, it it helped in that sense. I've played songs to people. I've sent people a video.

• 1:46:38Alex Cooper?

  Oh, my God.

• 1:46:39Speaker 01

  But everyone says something so similar, which is it's just so you, but I didn't expect what that would be.

• 1:46:46Alex Cooper?

  That's exactly what I said to you.

• 1:46:48Speaker 01

  I know. I remember what you've said, but also, but that is literally what everyone says. And it's really, that is. As as an artist, as I still find it hard to say sometimes, as a musician. Um, it is one of the nicest things you can hear.

• 1:47:02Alex Cooper?

  Because I don't, I said that to you. I was like, I don't know, like, what should Cara Delevingne sound like? Because we know your personality.

• 1:47:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:47:11Alex Cooper?

  But I had no concept of how that would translate into music. And I remember pressing play and being like, huh, this is incredible. And you like, take us on a ride that it was so unpredictable, and yet so now in hindsight predictable to who you are, that it all makes sense. Um, but it was so unexpected in the best way, because again, we had nothing to pull from. We had no

• 1:47:35Speaker 01

  No, no.

• 1:47:36Alex Cooper?

  Okay, so we have two singles. I've forgotten out of my head. They'll be coming out. Then I heard that maybe you're down to give us a little sneak peek

• 1:47:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:47:49Alex Cooper?

  of another song.

• 1:47:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:47:51Alex Cooper?

  Just play us a little something.

• 1:47:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:47:54Alex Cooper?

  Can you give us any?

• 1:47:56Speaker 01

  Context?

• 1:47:56Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, context.

• 1:47:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's about my girlfriend. It's a, she is one of the most, she hates grand gestures. She couldn't, I'm definitely one of those people like, write a song about me. Oh, my God, I would love, like, we're very different in that sense. So I wanted to piss her off in a cute way by writing her a love song. And, but it's also like, sorry, but this is a love song. You know, it's like apologizing for the fact that like, I can't help it. I love you so much.

• 1:48:29Alex Cooper?

  When did you first show it to her? What was her reaction?

• 1:48:32Speaker 01

  Oh, God, that's such a good point. I don't remember because it was so, the original iteration was not good enough yet. And I knew if I had to play that to her, that like, that would be the first thing, especially if that song wasn't good enough that she'd be like, you can't, I'm so sorry, you can't put that out. So I really, it took me a while.

• 1:48:48Alex Cooper?

  She's like, babe, this is like a disgrace to our relationship.

• 1:48:50Speaker 01

  Like, don't do it. Like, please. I'm like, oh, damn it. And especially because she, the worst part is she's like an incredible guitarist. Like, I could listen to her play guitar and sing forever. But in this, I play guitar forever. I'm not.

• 1:49:05Speaker 01

  I'm I'm fine. I'm fine at best. Listen, I'm still getting better. But like, I've decided in the show that I'm gonna like shred a guitar solo, which, again, the pressure, when we went to school together, she's like, just, the pressure of playing her any of this music or playing in front of her.

• 1:49:22Alex Cooper?

  Oh, my god.

• 1:49:23Speaker 01

  When she is like a phenom of a guitarist makes me wanna die a little bit.

• 1:49:28Alex Cooper?

  Cry, cry. But she supports this song.

• 1:49:30Speaker 01

  She really does. She loves it.

• 1:49:32Alex Cooper?

  And that's all that matters. Okay, play us a snippet. Come on.

• 1:49:35Speaker 01

  No, but also I can't help it. I love her and she's gonna have to deal with it.

• 1:49:39Alex Cooper?

  No, it's all been so sweet.

• 1:49:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know.

• 1:49:41Alex Cooper?

  We're not asking about techniques today, you know.

• 1:49:44Speaker 01

  Why not?

• 1:49:45Alex Cooper?

  I thought that's what I was in for. Sex education, girl. Let's go.

• 1:50:04Alex Cooper?

  I love you saying, I'm sorry, this is a love song. You're like, hi, babe, sorry.

• 1:50:07Speaker 01

  I'm sorry.

• 1:50:09Alex Cooper?

  Cara.

• 1:50:10Speaker 01

  It's definitely the more poppy one, but that's the thing about that is like all the other songs are quite heavy and about abusive relationships or whatever. And that song, I was like, oh, let's just go.

• 1:50:19Alex Cooper?

  Have fun.

• 1:50:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:50:21Alex Cooper?

  Joy.

• 1:50:21Speaker 01

  Rad.

• 1:50:22Alex Cooper?

  Love.

• 1:50:23Speaker 01

  Love.

• 1:50:23Alex Cooper?

  It's so fun and I love that you did that for her where you're like, you have no choice.

• 1:50:28Speaker 01

  I'm sorry.

• 1:50:29Alex Cooper?

  I'm I'm writing you a love song. Take it or leave it, but it's gonna be in the album.

• 1:50:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:50:33Alex Cooper?

  It's so incredible and I'm so excited for you. I can feel your like genuine passion. I feel like you're right. Like, we've seen you do so many different things, obviously, throughout your career, but this, to see how you talked about, obviously, modeling and you're so grateful for everything it gave you, but the amount that you are passionate about music, I think, hearing your whole life story, it's like you've been kind of waiting to find you and your thing. And it feels like that is this, which is really beautiful.

• 1:51:07Speaker 01

  It's like a perfect little crossroads, because also, the music industry is not easy. You have to really wanna do it. And I really, I, again, kind of like writing that song, I didn't have, I don't have a choice. Like, it is where my heart is. It is where my head is. I can't. There is nothing else I can do right now. I don't know how to describe that.

• 1:51:29Alex Cooper?

  And you're about to go on stage tonight?

• 1:51:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:51:31Alex Cooper?

  Are you?

• 1:51:32Speaker 01

  No, don't.

• 1:51:33Alex Cooper?

  No.

• 1:51:34Speaker 01

  I have to transition into like,

• 1:51:35Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:51:36Speaker 01

  It's freaking me out. But yeah, no, it's gonna be fine.

• 1:51:38Alex Cooper?

  You're gonna be fine. You're gonna be completely fine.

• 1:51:40Speaker 01

  Funny because the show's called Getting My Shit Together and so,

• 1:51:42Alex Cooper?

  You're just getting your shit together.

• 1:51:43Speaker 01

  I was like, I'm not gonna invite anyone I know. And I've invited people I know.

• 1:51:47Alex Cooper?

  Everyone that you know. Because it's harder to do things in front of people you know.

• 1:51:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:51:51Alex Cooper?

  Like, if you were playing that song in front of like, a bunch of, I'm a random, right?

• 1:51:54Speaker 01

  I'm already nervous, so playing that song just now.

• 1:51:56Alex Cooper?

  No.

• 1:51:56Speaker 01

  And I'm not even saying I'm saying it.

• 1:51:57Alex Cooper?

  No, but because now we know each other more. But like, if you're playing it for random, you're like, take it or leave it.

• 1:52:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:52:02Alex Cooper?

  The people you're friends with, you're like, don't look at me in the eyes.

• 1:52:05Speaker 01

  No, don't. I got, I played it to two of my friends, two of my like, oldest friends, well, my oldest friend and her girlfriend. A fiance, I should say. But it was just two of them in the studio and the lights are pitch black and all like, I couldn't even look at them. I couldn't open my eyes. And I look over and my friend's just sobbing and my friend doesn't cry. And I was like, Oh my God, that makes it even worse. What am I meant to do?

• 1:52:27Alex Cooper?

  Cara.

• 1:52:27Speaker 01

  Oh God.

• 1:52:28Alex Cooper?

  It's, you're gonna be amazing. You're gonna be so amazing. This album is gonna be amazing. I can't wait for you. I'm so excited for you. I think so much of what you've gone through in your life, it's really inspiring to see how you are sitting here today and what you have done with every aspect of your life and your career and how you've kind of like molded all together to make it be your purpose, essentially. It's really, really inspiring. And I think so many people are going to love your story. They're gonna love the music and they're gonna love the music video. We got budget, baby.

• 1:53:01Speaker 01

  Girl, we got budget.

• 1:53:02Alex Cooper?

  Girl, we got budget.

• 1:53:04Speaker 01

  Persuasion I had to do on that one.

• 1:53:05Alex Cooper?

  Um, no, seriously. Thank you so much.

• 1:53:08Speaker 01

  And I also just wanted to say thank you. I really love what you do and what you stand for. I think it's incredible. So to be on here and talking about this was a very big deal. I was honestly more nervous about this than I was about doing the show tonight. But I also love the fact that finally coming and talking to you now feels like the right time. And also for anyone who feels stuck in their life, like, I'm not saying sobriety is for everyone, but what it did for me, obviously I had definitely had more of a problem than most people do, but what it can do just because the society we live in, we are so.

• 1:53:47Speaker 01

  Filled with so much information and pain and so aware of what's going on in the world that escaping and numbing is so easy. And so whether people have a problem or not, escaping is always a problem. So to be able to get sober with your friends, even if it is for a period of time or whatever, is never a bad thing, but it also doesn't have to be perfect. And also, any sort of creative endeavor or any endeavor that makes you uncomfortable will always allow you to grow. And if you are ever stagnant, just keep moving in that sense. So.

• 1:54:16Alex Cooper?

  Oh, gull, wide mouth, open. Done, done. Um, thank you so much for coming on Call Her Daddy.

• 1:54:38Alex Cooper?

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