Jay’s Must-Listens: The Biggest Lessons From 10 of Our Most Inspiring Conversations

Across memorable conversations with guests including Selena Gomez, Kevin Hart, Kim Kardashian, Madonna, Kobe Bryant, Tom Holland, Emma Watson, and Mel Robbins, this special collection brings together some of the most powerful lessons ever shared on the show. From love and purpose to resilience, fame, friendship, and self-discovery, each story offers a different perspective on what it means to live with intention. Together, they reveal that the most meaningful transformations rarely come from one defining moment, but from the wisdom we gather along the way. In this episode you'll learn: How to Build Lasting Love How to Communicate Without Fighting How to Let Go of External Validation How to Trust Your Partner How to Overcome Fear Faster How to Find Real Happiness How to Break Free From Ego How to Build Strong Friendships How to Live With Purpose How to Grow Through Adversity Whether you're healing, chasing a dream, strengthening a relationship, or simply trying to become a better version of yourself, remember that lasting change is built through small moments of courage, honesty, and intention. With Love and Gratitude, Jay Shetty. JAY’S DAILY WISDOM DELIVERED STRAIGHT TO YOUR INBOX Join 900,000+ readers discovering how small daily shifts create big life change with my free newsletter. Subscribe here: https://news.jayshetty.me/subscribe Check out our Apple subscription to unlock bonus content of On Purpose! https://lnk.to/JayShettyPodcast What We Discuss: 00:00 Intro 01:25 Make Your Partner's Day Better 04:06 How to Have Better Conversations 10:11 Fame Is the Biggest Drug 12:25 Appreciate Life Before It's Too Late 17:15 Nothing Lasts Forever 20:10 Grow Through Every Experience 22:09 Why We Lost Inner Peace 24:04 The Power of Third Spaces 25:50 Make Time to Study 29:08 It's Normal to Outgrow Friendships 31:22 Growing Up as Hermione Granger 33:48 The Power of Being Still 35:54 Get Over Yourself 37:29 The Power of Playing the Long Game 39:10 Choosing Gratitude Over Comparison 40:03 Knowing When to Step Away 41:17 Escaping the Version of Yourself You Created 43:11 The Wake-Up Call That Changed My Life 47:45 What Sobriety Gave Me 49:05 Three Pillars of Friendship 53:55 What Makes Someone a Great Partner 56:10 The Relationship Mistake Most People Make 57:37 What is Your Conflict Style? 01:01:34 The Conversation Every Couple Needs to Have 01:06:38 What Manifestation Really Means See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jay Shetty?

  This episode is brought to you by Amtrak. You know that feeling when you're already tired and you haven't even gotten there yet? That's where Amtrak comes in. Leave the driving behind and settle into a comfortable seat with plenty of room to stretch out. Catch up on work with wifi, grab a snack at the cafe car, or just sit back and enjoy your favorite podcast. Choose a seller or Northeast Regional and get there without the stress of getting there. Visit amtrak.com to plan your next trip. This episode is brought to you by Vinted. Value can be found anywhere, even in the clothes sitting untouched in our closets. That's where Vinted comes in. Vinted is a secondhand marketplace app where you can sell clothes you no longer want and

• 0:44Jay Shetty?

  get more value out of them. Whether you're running out of space, moving, or simply updating your wardrobe. Listing items is a quick and simple process, and once something sells, Vinted creates a prepaid shipping label for you. And the best part, there are no seller fees, so you keep what you earn. It's a simple way to clear out your closet, be less wasteful, and maybe make some extra money along the way. Give your clothes a second life with Vinted. Download the Vinted app for free to start selling with no seller fees, so you keep every dollar you earn. This episode is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve. One of the greatest gifts we can give ourselves is the chance to step outside of our routine.

• 1:27Jay Shetty?

  Travel is a way of slowing us down and shifting our perspective, and with the Chase Sapphire Reserve card, every journey becomes even more rewarding. Earn four times the points on flights and hotels booked direct, enjoy access to award-winning airport lounges, three times the points on dining, and reserve exclusive tables. Learn more at chase.com/sapphirereserve. Cards issued by JP Morgan Chase Bank, N A Member FDIC. Subject to credit approval, terms apply. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to On Purpose. Before we get into today's episode, I just want to take a moment to acknowledge this community we've built here on YouTube.

• 2:09Jay Shetty?

  When we started this journey, the intention was simple, to create a space where we could all feel less alone, where wisdom felt practical and conversations explored what it really means to live with purpose. And you turned that into something far bigger than I ever imagined. The community we built together became a place of learning, reflection, and genuine connection. Now, this isn't a goodbye to YouTube, it's a new chapter in how we share these conversations. You'll be able to watch our full video interviews on Netflix and Spotify Video, and we'll continue showing up here on YouTube in new ways as we keep building this community together. The heart of this has never changed.

• 2:53Jay Shetty?

  It's always been about helping you live a life that feels more intentional, more meaningful, and more true to who you are. I'm deeply grateful you've been a part of this, and I can't wait to continue this journey together. It's just the beginning. Today's episode felt like the perfect moment to look back. This is a collection of some of the most powerful conversations we've shared over the years, the moments that challenged us, shifted us, and stayed with us. Let's dive in.

• 3:22Speaker 01

  I think to myself, I'm like, how can I make Selena's day better? Like, how, what can I do in my day to make her day better? Because then that makes my day better. And I wanted to find a person like that. And I know when Selena wakes up, like, the first thing she's thinking is like, how can I make his day better? And we have such a give and take. Like, I could never even see a world where I would ever yell at her, she would ever yell at me, like, we don't argue like that. Like, I feel like, I feel like we just have conversations, like, there's never an argument. Sometimes she'll say, this is so funny.

• 3:53Selena Gomez?

  Oh, boy.

• 3:54Speaker 01

  No, no, no. She'll do this, and it's really cool. I'm feeling a little irritated, and I think I need, like, 25 minutes. And I'll say, okay. And then I give her her space, and then after like five minutes, she texts me, she's like, hey, will you come back? But it's, but it's knowing that, and we have the proper boundaries set with each other. Like, I don't have to be on top of her every second. She doesn't have to be on top of me every second we're together. I just want to know she's in the house, so I can say like, hey, I love you, and then go back to what I'm doing. You know what I mean? Because, look, we're both highly independent people, okay? But we're both little mushes who just need to be attached at the hip.

• 4:36Selena Gomez?

  Yeah, we are so cheesy. It's so fun.

• 4:39Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. I love the maturity. I mean, hearing you both talk about it.

• 4:42Selena Gomez?

  Yes, but let's be clear, we are not the perfect.

• 4:45Speaker 01

  No, no, no.

• 4:46Jay Shetty?

  It's not perfect, no, but you're disagreeing. No, no, no, but I think the maturity of, and I agree with you, I think, I think that's actually the difference, and I'm glad you brought that up. I think there's a big difference between maturity and perfection.

• 4:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:57Jay Shetty?

  Perfection is saying, we never have a disagreement, we never have to take space from each other, we, you know, which you're not saying, you're saying, hey, I just asked for 25 minutes space, and then I was like, wait a minute, I need you. And I think there's a maturity in that, because it requires maturity from both parts.

• 5:13Selena Gomez?

  Yeah.

• 5:13Jay Shetty?

  For you to first say, hey, I need space, for you to say, I get it, I respect you, and then for you to have the maturity to say, actually, I want you back.

• 5:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:22Jay Shetty?

  And for you to be like, not like, oh, I told you so, for you to be like, I'm here for you. Like, that, that's not perfection. To me, that's maturity, and I think that's, I really want people to get that from it, that you are gonna have disagreements, you are gonna want space. Like, me and Riley went through that. She, at the beginning of our relationship, if we had a disagreement, and we were the same, we never, we made a rule that we would never raise our voices at each other, because I came from a home where it was not great.

• 5:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:48Jay Shetty?

  She comes from a home where her parents don't raise their voices, but I was just like, I never wanted that in my home. I wanted the energy of my home to be so sacred, and I wanted the energy of the home to always have a space where everyone just walked in and felt like a warm hug. And I was like, we can't argue and then expect that to happen. But it took a long time for us to realize that when she, at the start of our disagreements, she wanted space, and I used to say to her, well, if you don't want to talk about it right now, that means you don't care about me. And that wasn't true, she just needed space to process. So it took time for us to mature, for me to realize, wait a minute, you wanting space is you caring for the relationship.

• 6:25Speaker 01

  When you start dating someone, you're not only dating them, you're dating every single person they've ever dated, every single relationship they've ever had in their past, every, because you're getting every piece of baggage that that person's carried, and that what they've learned through their own personal life, through the life with partners, with their parents, with this, that. And I had to find a way to build that trust with her, not make it feel overbearing, and make it feel real, and make her actually believe it, and vice versa. Like, I know that she fully, if I say, hey, I'm just going to do this today, there's nowhere in her mind that's thinking that. And if, for any chance that she, I always told her, I said, it's okay, if you have

• 7:08Speaker 01

  moments of doubt in something, in a feeling, always talk to me, and I'll talk you through anything that you may have. But, you know, if you say, hey, I know this is a crazy thing, I just had a dream, and I woke up from this dream, and I was upset, sometimes she'll just say like, please tell me I can trust you, or please tell me you're not doing anything stupid. And I say, you can call me anytime you want. And I'm aware of her strengths, and I'm aware of her weaknesses. And what I try to do is surround her with a lot of things to help her. So if she's away, and I have to go to a dinner, then a party, then this thing, then

• 7:49Speaker 01

  that thing, it's a simple text in between each things that says, hey, babe, I'm going to this next thing, I'm thinking about you.

• 7:56Jay Shetty?

  Wait, so the album, I said, I love you first.

• 7:59Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 8:00Jay Shetty?

  So Selena, you said, I love you first.

• 8:02Speaker 01

  Yes, she said it.

• 8:03Jay Shetty?

  What, what made you want to say that? Because that's a big step, I assume.

• 8:07Selena Gomez?

  I definitely have never been the first.

• 8:10Jay Shetty?

  So this is the first time in your life, you were the first?

• 8:12Selena Gomez?

  Yes.

• 8:13Jay Shetty?

  Wow.

• 8:13Selena Gomez?

  I wanted him to also know how committed I was, and deep down, I just felt that. And I, I was tired of protecting myself. We had spent enough time together where, you know, I felt like this was my person, and I, I had the courage enough to say it, but I was very nervous, and luckily, he said it back.

• 8:40Speaker 01

  And the thing that's crazy is, you know, before you say, I love you, it's like this thing, it's like taboo, you're scared to say, and then after, you're like, oh, my God, I can't, like, you want to say it a thousand times in a row, you never want, I can't even understand how I went so long without saying it to her. I say it 3,000 times a day to her, and I like, I make sure every day I say, I love you so much, like, I love you a million times, and then I always tell her how beautiful she is and how lucky I am to have her every day, you know what I?

• 9:10Selena Gomez?

  That's so annoying, like, yeah.

• 9:12Speaker 01

  And I always want, no, and I always want to do that, because I want her to know that every day, I don't take any of, anything for granted, and I still look at her and my breath gets taken away in so many different ways. And I said it to her last night, we were sitting, we were in like the pool or something together last night, and we were just hanging out, and I was just like. You're so beautiful and I don't mean that just physically. I'm saying like you can feel it. There's like a ring, like an aura around her that exudes just like warmth and it, and it just.

• 9:45Selena Gomez?

  You're like making me wanna cry.

• 9:48Jay Shetty?

  How do you react in the moment when that happens, Selena? Cause Benny, we're basically the same person. I do the same thing to my wife.

• 9:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:54Jay Shetty?

  I do that to Roddy all the time.

• 9:55Speaker 01

  We're so lucky.

• 9:56Jay Shetty?

  Roddy will just pull the funniest face in the world.

• 9:58Speaker 01

  She does the same thing.

• 9:59Jay Shetty?

  I was like, how do you react when, when Benny's telling you all these amazing things, Selena? What do you say?

• 10:04Selena Gomez?

  Because I, I say, no, let's be honest. I also am equally grateful and I tell him that all the time. I, I just, it makes me feel like it's not real. And I'll like, sometimes I'll be like, this seems too good to be true. Like he's so sweet to me, but now I've accepted it. I think I, I actually love it so much that it just makes me want to give him that support and that love back. So, uh, it's safe to say I feel much safer doing that now and I like it.

• 10:42Jay Shetty?

  I think so many people feel that when someone's that nice, and that's coming from someone who's like that myself with friends, family, and obviously with my, with my wife too. A lot of the time that's seen as a weakness. Like people kind of look down on it when someone's that open about their feelings, especially I get asked that a lot when I'm giving relationship or dating advice. People will be like, oh no, but if, if I come on too strong, people get turned off. What this time was different for you where it's like he's, he's being really affectionate. He's being really open, but there's a part of you that realizes that's what you want and that's what you deserve.

• 11:17Selena Gomez?

  What I felt for Benny, it was, it was everything about him was honest. It wasn't just that he was honest with me. He was honest about where he was at in life and, um, he'll tell me anything that he's feeling and it made me feel like I could do the same. But he's the one person, you know, and you're saying those nice things to me, babe. It's like so sweet, but I believe in to where I'm not gonna believe someone who is blowing smoke up my butt to just make me feel good. He's saying it cause he means it and I believe it.

• 11:53Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, that's beautiful. That honesty that someone has in every area of their life, including their bad days, their tough days, their challenging days. Then when they're saying that.

• 12:04Selena Gomez?

  Yeah.

• 12:04Jay Shetty?

  Whether their day's good or bad and they feel that way, it resonates with us. I think we all, we all sense that.

• 12:10Speaker 03

  The biggest drug, it's not cocaine, it's not heroin, it's not, uh, Molly or opioids. And the biggest drug is fame.

• 12:21Jay Shetty?

  And now it's more accessible in different doses.

• 12:23Speaker 03

  It's the, it's the biggest drug. And the reason why it's the biggest drug, because it's a drug that makes you feel like you are powerful in like everywhere you go, anything you want, everything you want. It's, it's a thing. And if you can't handle this thing, the consequences attached.

• 12:44Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 12:45Speaker 03

  To when that thing is removed are severe. Nobody prepares you for the world of fame. There is no handbook, there is no outline, there is no guide by guide, step one to step ten, there's nothing. You get it and yesterday you weren't and today you are.

• 13:08Jay Shetty?

  And tomorrow you're not.

• 13:10Speaker 03

  No, we're done. People get shell shocked. That to me has always been the point of no return.

• 13:19Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 13:19Speaker 03

  At the end of the day, this can wear off if and when, however sees or decides and if that were to happen, well, what am I, where am I? It's all gonna, it's all going to back to, are you happy with who you are and what you did? Are you at a point where you are okay? Do you know you and are you okay with you? If you are not, it'll break you.

• 13:48Jay Shetty?

  Your energy is incredible and, and just the depth, what I love about this, and this was my vision with the show and you were helping me achieve that, which I'm very grateful for is I don't think, and I love that you've been doing this more and more with the audible, with heart to heart, like we're getting to see your depth, we're getting to see the mind behind you. Again, as we said earlier, we like to limit people, we like to limit people into like, you just be a comedian or you just be a race car driver or you just be an actor. And it's like, we're starting to realize that, like you said, you're not just watching someone's life on TV. There's a human here, there's, there's a story here and we're getting that with you. Do you think it was, was this something, was this an epiphany that you had before the

• 14:29Jay Shetty?

  accident or was it that this really, because in your audible, when you talk about like how, when it's just silent.

• 14:36Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 14:36Jay Shetty?

  You figure out what really matters. Like when I heard that, I was just thinking like, our near death experiences, you were told when you came out of it, you should be dead and you're like, well, I don't remember anything. Does that feel like that was a moment that there is a massive awakening or were you already kind of working with some of this?

• 14:55Speaker 03

  No, I, I had a, I was always a transparent and authentic person, but you definitely change.

• 15:02Jay Shetty?

  That's what, yeah.

• 15:03Speaker 03

  You, you definitely change. And by the way, still changing. I'm not sitting in front of you.

• 15:08Jay Shetty?

  All of us, yeah.

• 15:08Speaker 03

  Yes, as an unflawed man. Like I, I am my dad's child and I'm, I'm my mother's child as well. There's nothing more humbling than a quiet room. There's nothing more humbling than the realization of what is really like necessary. What you take for granted and what we don't think twice about is not until that's compromised that the true appreciation for life, I feel like can sometimes be had. I don't wanna speak for everybody because I think there are some people that truly do get it and that truly do think whatever their space, um, or version of a higher power is

• 15:52Speaker 03

  daily for life and for what they do. You know, I believe in God, so I'm, I'm not as spiritual as some may be, but I'm very thankful for the life that God has allowed me to, to live and the opportunities that I've been able to embark upon. But I got a lot more appreciation after life was almost gone. Right? Like, do you really appreciate your toes? Do you really appreciate your fingers? Like, do you really think about your movement, your joints, vision, smell? Do you really think about how fortunate and, and lucky you are?

• 16:37Speaker 03

  It's the only time where I get a little, where I slow up. Right? And when, when I'm slowing up is because the reality of that was significant. I really almost died. My kids and all that, like what, as I'm moving so fast, I didn't even have everything dialed up for if said thing were to happen, what, what, oh, cause I'm, I'm out here, I'm just roaming. I'm out here aimlessly living and I'm moving so fast, I've yet to grasp the true concept and reality of responsibility immediately. Let me get my responsibilities in order because if that had have been, there would've been

• 17:19Speaker 03

  a lot of people with their hands up as to what, how, when fame is great, the lights are great, have a heart, have a heart, have a heart, number one, number one, number one. God was in that room with my goddamn wife, my brother, my kids. You look around, you got a lot of friends, you got a lot of people that love you, but then you start to, well, what really matters? That's when my mindset started to change. That's when you go, okay, my approach to just me and working on me, it needs to be different.

• 17:55Speaker 03

  I've contradicted myself a lot since, you know, you know, I wanna slow down, I'm gonna make sure I give my family more time. I have, that doesn't mean that it can't be more. The day to day battle of, am I giving enough? Am I, guys, you know how much dad loves you? I'm here, I'm like, you know, always working to make sure I do more, but is it enough?

• 18:15Speaker 03

  Am I a workaholic? Okay, but that's not a bad thing, uh, cause I'm, you love to work. Yes, you do. That's a passion. You get, you got something that you go after every day. That is a driving source for me. I'm not in the business of letting that go, but, boy, you better put your hands on these people and make sure, you better make sure that you are giving the time that you said you would when you were in that time of solace. Okay, all right. I'm constantly talking to myself. I have these conversations all the time. That's the beauty of taking my little runs, the beauty of working out, being in the gym. You talk to yourself. You better talk to yourself. You better have conversations, figure out a yin and yang of good and bad.

• 18:56Speaker 03

  For me, it was about personal involvement after that accident. And still trying, man, it's the biggest battle. It's the big, the biggest battle is just doing right all the time. That's a battle.

• 19:12Selena Gomez?

  I used to value, I mean.

• 19:17Kim Kardashian?

  Stuff. I live in an area where there would be fires a lot. And there was probably four times we had to fully pack up the house. Everything out, houses catching on fire, property caught on fire, like really close to losing everything. First time packed up my entire shoe and bag closet. And a lot of them, because they were memory stuff from my dad, stuff in high school, but all designer stuff. Also videos, photos, whatever, digitized everything, put everything important somewhere else.

• 19:50Kim Kardashian?

  Second, pack up. The designer stuff, but leave some, leave some of the clothes. You know, I don't really need all the clothes. But I packed a hotel for months, bags and every designer thing that I had had to come. Third time, leave all the bags and shoes. I don't, I don't need them. We got all the, we got all the photos, we got all the, my little blankie when I was little. You know, the kid's stuff. Fourth time, leave everything. Me and my babies, that's all I need. You know, I have all my photos digitized, I have everything digital. We got our passports, we're good.

• 20:26Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 20:27Kim Kardashian?

  And that like evolution of like, they had to go in and get all my designer stuff. Or I'm not leaving my house, you know, it's going to catch on fire.

• 20:35Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 20:36Kim Kardashian?

  And now I'm like, nothing is worth it. Nothing is important. And I think that comes from life experiences, scary experiences, things shaking you to your core to make you realize that nothing is important. You can't, I know everyone says this, but like you can't take it with you. None of it is important.

• 20:58Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, there's a beautiful Islamic proverb that says detachment doesn't mean that you own nothing. It means that nothing owns you.

• 21:08Kim Kardashian?

  Hmm.

• 21:08Jay Shetty?

  And I feel so often we become owned by

• 21:12Kim Kardashian?

  I love that.

• 21:12Jay Shetty?

  dreams, our desires, our pursuits, our things.

• 21:15Kim Kardashian?

  Yeah.

• 21:16Jay Shetty?

  It doesn't mean that we have to give them all away, or we don't have those things. It's just if and when we have to let go.

• 21:22Kim Kardashian?

  Totally.

• 21:23Jay Shetty?

  Are we willing, are we able to let go?

• 21:24Kim Kardashian?

  Totally. Even with work stuff, I mean, it doesn't just have to be the material things. Like you said, like your dreams and it's okay to be able to let go, but work so hard to, like the opposites are okay. Contradicting yourself a little bit in those ways.

• 21:43Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 21:43Kim Kardashian?

  You know, it's like in, in relationships, you can love a person, miss a person so much, but still have the wisdom to know they're not your person and you're better off not together. That like opposite connection with everything, I think is really important to have that awareness. And everything in life, relationships, material things, all of that.

• 22:08Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I, I, I officiated a wedding a few years ago and someone came up to me from the audience and, and said to me, Jay, I realized from what you were saying that they'd just gone through a breakup recently and they were saying, Jay, I realized that I loved that person, but we didn't like each other anymore.

• 22:28Kim Kardashian?

  Hmm.

• 22:29Jay Shetty?

  And it was that essence of like, there'll always be that deep love for each other.

• 22:32Kim Kardashian?

  Yeah.

• 22:33Jay Shetty?

  But we just don't.

• 22:34Kim Kardashian?

  Like family, you know, like you love people and, but it's okay to, to feel a protection of a person, but then also protecting yourself and realizing when you have to. And when it's time and it's okay to feel all of the opposite emotions, you know? I think as long as you're really well aware and go through the motions and feel things and don't hold things in. It's so important, whether it's, you know, breakups, deaths. I've always been really clear headed and like gone through the feelings, gone through the emotions, more in those relationships, more in those lifelong

• 23:20Kim Kardashian?

  relationships that you hope for. And then also be okay and calm and realizing I've always been someone like, okay, my dad died, what, why is this happening? What was his purpose here? And how are we going to grow and learn from this experience? And I always said that, like right when he passed and I was, felt it and super emotional about it and, you know, cry all the time when great things happen that I wish he was here. But also I had a wisdom at like a younger age to understand that this is like a part of our journey and a part of our like evolution. And this happens. And this is why you have to hold on to relationships even more precious.

• 24:05Kim Kardashian?

  But don't let things destroy you at the same time.

• 24:20Jay Shetty?

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• 25:05Jay Shetty?

  Visit MazdaUSA.com to learn more. Consumer Reports does not endorse products or services.

• 25:13Jay Shetty?

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• 25:59Jay Shetty?

  Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.

• 26:05Speaker 05

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• 26:44Speaker 06

  We live in a very busy, chaotic world. Lots of noise, lots of distraction. I mean, how many times have you heard people say, oh, you know, social media and like all the, you know, people can't walk down the street without listening to music. Everybody has to be visually stimulated all the time. Like there is no peace, there is no quiet. We're, we're not comfortable being quiet with ourselves and

• 27:10Speaker 06

  looking inward and asking ourselves, why am I here? Or what am I doing? Or what is my intention in this specific choice I'm making right now? Whether it's about my work or the way I'm raising my children, decisions that I make about everything, really.

• 27:26Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 27:26Speaker 06

  I have to ask myself, and if you don't have a spiritual life, you're never going to stop and ask any questions. You're just going to plow through life. And if you just, and, and, and you're going to see everything that happens to you as just a random event. And I don't believe that anything is random. I think everything that happens to us is meant to happen to us, to teach us some kind of a lesson. But, you know, the question is, are you aware enough? Are you awake enough? Are you interested enough to find out what that reason is? Like, why did this happen to me? What is my lesson? I don't want to go through life seeing everything that happens to me as random, but I also don't want to go through life as a victim.

• 28:10Speaker 06

  And I've had a pretty challenging life and it's easy to fall into the trap of feeling sorry for yourself or like being a victim or, you know, why, why isn't this happening to other people? Why is it happening to me? Why don't I have what that person has? I'm sure you know the expression comparison is the killer of joy. So, you know, it's like, you gotta, to get out of that game, you have to have a spiritual life. You just have to.

• 28:35Jay Shetty?

  You're reminding me of

• 28:38Jay Shetty?

  Something beautiful that I came across called the third space theory. Have you heard of it?

• 28:43Speaker 06

  Uh-uh.

• 28:43Jay Shetty?

  It's this idea that as humans, around fifty years ago, we had three spaces. So we had work, we had home, and then you had a temple, a synagogue, a church, a community center, or a third space. And the point of that third space, it's kind of what you're saying, was a place that you could look back at work and home, and you could reflect on your life, you could take stock, you could introspect. But as time's gone on, what's happened is we lost that third space. We stopped going to temple, church, community, whatever it may be.

• 29:17Speaker 06

  A place of self-reflection.

• 29:18Jay Shetty?

  A place of self-reflection. And we ended up with work and home, and then after the pandemic, we lost work. And so now we're in one space, and we don't have a different vantage point to where we are anymore, which is what I think you're saying.

• 29:33Speaker 06

  Go back even one more step that to me is like a prison. Get, if you get, if you remove the spiritual life, spiritual practice, you remove the workplace, then you're in the home. And then removed once more from home is you're looking at your phone, which is even takes you out of home.

• 29:54Jay Shetty?

  It's a great point, yeah.

• 29:55Speaker 06

  So, like, where are you? You're nowhere.

• 29:58Jay Shetty?

  We're all living in the virtual world. Yeah, we're living in the virtual world, not even in the material world, which is...

• 30:02Speaker 06

  Yes, but a virtual, and a virtual world is not a bad world. But if you don't have consciousness, there's really no point to living.

• 30:09Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, it's, yeah, so it's interesting to think about that because I feel like everyone can relate to the idea that if we all had, we need physical spaces to sometimes make us do internal things.

• 30:23Speaker 06

  Yes, I mean, some kind of ritualistic behavior has to happen.

• 30:27Jay Shetty?

  What have been your rituals? I'm intrigued, what, I'm curious. What are your spiritual practices and rituals that have been so supportive and emblematic of your journey that have kept you going at the times? As you said, there were so many times you could give up or things could go wrong, or you kept pushing and they kept you locked. What were they? What are they?

• 30:48Speaker 06

  Well, one really important thing is studying. Making time every week to sit down and study. I mean, you can study the Bible, you can study the poetry of Cahill Gibran, or you can study the Vedas, you know.

• 31:07Jay Shetty?

  And you did that, right? You actually studied different traditions on your...

• 31:10Speaker 06

  I mean, to be honest, before I discovered Kabbalah, I was looking for answers and...

• 31:16Jay Shetty?

  Why do you think that was? Why were you looking for answers?

• 31:19Speaker 06

  Because I had everything that people would assume would give you happiness. I had a successful career, I had fame, fortune, monetary things, physical things. But I wasn't happy. And I naturally sought out... Well, when I was a dancer, I had a roommate, she was a Buddhist, and she would get up and chant every day. And so I was very intrigued by that. Like, nothing bothered her, you know what I mean? Everything bothers me.

• 31:56Speaker 06

  Everything bothers me, I'm, you know, I'm a Leo, I'm Italian. I'm very dramatic.

• 32:04Speaker 06

  I wouldn't say she was peaceful all the time, but I was just struck by her confidence and her knowingness that everything was happening for a reason. She never got upset about things. And this is in the beginning of my career, when I was living in New York and I was broke, and a lot of crazy things happened to me. Really scary, traumatic things. And I would always ask her, her name is Marianne, I would always say, what, like, why are you, like, never upset? So I attributed that to her spiritual life, but it didn't speak to me. And then later on, I started practicing yoga, Ashtanga yoga. And my teacher, Eddie Stern, he still has a...

• 32:43Jay Shetty?

  Love Eddie, he's great.

• 32:44Speaker 06

  You know Eddie?

• 32:44Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 32:45Speaker 06

  Yeah, he's amazing. I got quite caught up in and competitive about like first series, second series, third series. But one thing I noticed is that a lot of people would come into his practice, his studio where he taught, and they wouldn't even do the poses. They would just go and sit in front of the Statue of Ghanesh or light candles or prayer. And I realized, and Eddie pointed it out to me because sometimes I would have injuries, I would, or I would be traveling and I couldn't practice yoga, and he'd say, "Look, are you breathing?" And I'd say, "Yes." And he said, "You're practicing yoga." So I realized that I was too, still too caught up in the physical poses. And he's like, "No, you don't understand, you're missing the whole point.

• 33:29Speaker 06

  The poses are just something that you do to breathe through, to calm your nervous system down and to bring you back to your center." And that really spoke to me.

• 33:42Emma Watson?

  You know, you always get asked when you're like promoting these big films, like, "So do you guys hang out on set? And like, do you guys hang out? And like, are you all friends?" And everyone sort of like nods enthusiastically, but the truth is, no one has seen each other outside of work, like, very, very, very rarely. Mostly because the schedule is insane. Everyone's so tired that when they get any time off, you're going straight back to your hotel room to try to like claw in any piece of rest that you possibly can. And like, I don't know, like, friendships require time and trust and presence. And those things like very rarely come about. They can and they like do occasionally, but it's more of a, more of a, you know,

• 34:25Emma Watson?

  solar eclipse than a, than an everyday situation. So, yeah, but you have to pretend. I think that's the part that starts to feel icky after a while is like you, you have to pretend that you're all best friends. And what's so sad, and I, I know this isn't just the case for me, but like, I think people wish they were. I think we wish we did have those real connections and we did have that real support. And so having to pretend that something exists that you actually really want but don't have is like, it's like...

• 34:58Jay Shetty?

  That's it.

• 34:59Emma Watson?

  Pretty grainy in the wound, you know? It's like, it's pretty like tough pill to swallow, to have to act out something that you wish were real but isn't real. And I think that's the part that starts to kind of, yeah. I can only speak for myself, but those are definitely the moments where I've been like, "This feels dark." "Is anyone else like, this feels dark."

• 35:23Jay Shetty?

  And, and there's such a real reminder that it's still work. And it's almost like asking anyone who works at any company and saying, "Eddie, you hang out with your team after work every night?" And the answer is probably no. Yeah, no, everyone's going home to their family. And maybe you've got a couple, of course, you've got a couple of friends at work. And it's wonderful if you have a friend at work that you work out with or see after hours, but you're not hanging out as the whole crew, it's, it's very unlikely.

• 35:48Emma Watson?

  A hundred percent.

• 35:48Jay Shetty?

  And, and it is that reality check of, no, but this is also just work.

• 35:52Emma Watson?

  Yeah.

• 35:53Jay Shetty?

  And their, their character stories are not their personal stories. And it doesn't, and that's why I wanted to go back. You mentioned that, you talked about how Harry Potter had a family feel. And I wanted to ask you, how did that come about in the first, like, what, what was, where did the auditions come from? Like, how did that become a part of your life?

• 36:11Emma Watson?

  Yes, so I did not go to a performing arts school. I'd never done anything, I never acted professionally. But they came, they, they did like a basically countrywide search to find Harry, Hermione and Ron. And so they asked my school if they wanted to submit any students who loved drama, who wanted to audition. And so I was one of, I think about twelve students that was asked if I wanted to audition. I don't know, it was weird. I had this weird, weighted, fated sense of destiny

• 36:51Emma Watson?

  pretty much from the moment that, that they said, they mentioned the audition. I remember I brought, I think, maybe like seven different Beanie Babies with me along and like all these different like lucky talismans. And I loved the world and the books so much. My dad had been reading them to me before bed when I would spend the weekends with him and on long car journeys. We'd often drive back and forwards to France, and that's how the time would be passed. And so I was just like, loved the world, loved Hermione. And for me, it wasn't so much about acting so much

• 37:31Emma Watson?

  as it was that like I just, the books meant so much to me personally.

• 37:39Jay Shetty?

  Did you feel like it was destiny for you? Or did it feel like, did you always feel like it was gonna be this?

• 37:43Emma Watson?

  I always...

• 37:44Jay Shetty?

  Because obviously the books were already, you know...

• 37:46Emma Watson?

  I always felt like Hermione was, I knew I was never auditioning for anything else. Like, I knew it was her. I don't know, I don't know how to explain it. Something felt right about it and...

• 38:02Emma Watson?

  My, yeah, my poor parents, because if I hadn't have got it, I think they knew how crushed it. I ended up doing nine auditions over a period of over a year and a half, which for a nine year old is

• 38:15Tom Holland?

  A lot of work.

• 38:15Emma Watson?

  A massive commitment. But I was, I loved her. I loved it. I really did.

• 38:24Speaker 09

  What I try to do is just try to be still and understand that things come and go, emotions come and go. The important thing is to accept them all, to embrace them all. And then you can choose to do with them what you want versus being controlled by emotion. You know, a lot of times I've seen players, even myself, you know, when I was younger, being consumed by a particular fear, um, and to the point where you're saying, okay, no, it's, it's not good to feel fear. I shouldn't be nervous in this situation like that. And it does nothing but grow versus stepping back and saying, yeah, I, I am nervous about the situation. Yeah, I am fearful about the situation. Well, what am I afraid of?

• 39:06Speaker 09

  And then you kind of unpack it and then it gives you the ability to look at it for really what it is, which is nothing more than your imagination running its course, you know?

• 39:15Tom Holland?

  Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I love that. Cause what you're saying is that when you're dealing with something, it's almost like, how can I get to the root of it?

• 39:21Speaker 09

  Yeah.

• 39:21Tom Holland?

  Because sometimes what we're dealing with, like you're saying, it's an imagination, an illusion. It's not really

• 39:25Speaker 09

  It's not, it's not really a thing, you know, like you, you, you think about game winning shots and, or game winning free throws and people go to the free throw line and they're nervous about it. Well, what are you really nervous about? If you unpack that, okay, you, you're nervous that you're gonna miss the shot. All right. So you miss the shot, then what happens? People are gonna be embarrassed. You're gonna be embarrassed because thousands of people, millions of people see you miss the shot. All right. And then what? People wanna talk bad about you. Okay. Right. And so you're looking at it and you go, are those things even important? You know what I mean? If that, that is my fear, like what, what is, you worried about letting your teammates down? Okay. Have you let them down before? Oh, I'm sure. And practice and things of that nature, right? They're still there.

• 40:02Tom Holland?

  Yeah.

• 40:02Speaker 09

  You know? And so when you're able to unpack it, you kind of look at it for what it is, which is really nothing.

• 40:07Tom Holland?

  Yeah. I love that. Breaking it down. I think that's so important. I think everyone who's listening or watching right now, next time you're facing a fear, next time you're going against something, do that. Like literally unpack it. Don't just settle for your first answer, because the first answer is rarely the right one.

• 40:20Speaker 09

  Don't hide from it. You know, you gotta be able to look at it and, you know, and, and, and deal with it head on.

• 40:27Tom Holland?

  Hmm. Yeah. I love that, man. And, and you talk about that because you talk about, you know, when you talk about missing five throws and you talk about, uh, getting over yourself.

• 40:35Speaker 09

  Yeah.

• 40:36Tom Holland?

  Right? Like getting over yourself. How did you get that mentality of just being like, I need to get over this. Like I need to get over myself.

• 40:42Speaker 09

  You know, trial and error. You know, you grow up and you make game winning shots and it's awesome. And you come back the next day and miss a game winning shot and it's misery. And then the next day comes and you're back playing again. And you understand that life has this cyclical nature where it's, you know, what you do on Monday is fantastic, but then Tuesday is a bad day. But guess what? There's Wednesday. So are we just supposed to live our lives like this the whole time? You know, versus just staying like this and understanding that it's really just a journey of evolution every day. It's just constant improvement, constant curiosity, constantly getting better. The results don't really matter. Uh, it's the figuring out that matters.

• 41:19Tom Holland?

  Yeah. And we all get obsessed about the results.

• 41:21Speaker 09

  Yeah.

• 41:22Tom Holland?

  Like we get obsessed about like the output.

• 41:24Speaker 09

  Yeah.

• 41:24Tom Holland?

  Not the input of not figuring it out and not like changing things. What you said, trial and error, like the experimenting.

• 41:30Speaker 09

  Yeah.

• 41:30Tom Holland?

  We forget to do that.

• 41:31Speaker 09

  It's unfortunate, man. Like I, I've seen a lot of players, um, especially now, you know, in, in youth basketball dealing with that. Um, you have players that are like bigger and faster and stronger and, you know, their coaches are just coaching them for results. You know, we're just gonna use your size that, cause you're bigger than every other twelve year old out there to dominate today. But they're not growing, right? So they're just based on that result, but they're not focused on growing this young child.

• 41:57Tom Holland?

  Yeah.

• 41:57Speaker 09

  And to becoming a better an athlete. And, and through that, teaching them how to become a more well-rounded person. And we're missing that.

• 42:05Tom Holland?

  Yeah. See, what you've said there, just, I wanna ask you this, and I'm not saying, cause I, you know, like you know yourself best and you know how you've got there. So I'm asking it from a place of humility of learning. When I look at you, I'm like, you know, your superpower isn't just your work ethic. Your superpower isn't just like figuring things out. Your superpower is like, you think strategically. Like that's a very strategic thought of saying, this person could be this in the future if they were developed as a whole individual.

• 42:32Speaker 09

  Right.

• 42:32Tom Holland?

  Rather than just like, let's use them for the short term.

• 42:34Speaker 09

  Right.

• 42:34Tom Holland?

  And where did you develop that from? That ability to see beyond, to think deeper, to, to reflect deeper? Where did that come from?

• 42:41Speaker 09

  Well, I had to do that because, you know, I grew up, growing up in Italy. Um, when I first moved over there, it was, you know, I didn't speak Italian. I didn't have any friends. You know, I had the game of basketball and through sport and playing soccer, I was able to make friends and build connections. But it was a lot of time spent alone. And, and when I came back to the States, I wasn't the most athletic kid. You know, I was really scrawny, like really, really skinny and had like major knee issues. Cause I was growing. So I was the dorky kid with high socks and big old knee pads.

• 43:11Tom Holland?

  It's fashionable now.

• 43:12Speaker 09

  It's fashionable now. It wasn't then. It wasn't then. And, and so, um, I had to look long-term because in the here and now, I couldn't compete with these kids. I mean, there was kids that were like twelve years old with beards. Like I can't, what am I supposed to do with that? Like they're, they're doing windmills and dunking backwards and I'm happy to like tap the backboard, you know? So I had to look at it from a long term. Cause I wasn't gonna give up on the game.

• 43:36Tom Holland?

  Right.

• 43:37Speaker 09

  So I had to say, okay, this year I'm gonna get better at that. Next year, this. And then so forth and so on. And then patiently I was able to catch them.

• 43:44Tom Holland?

  The quote is, if you have a problem with me, text me. And if you don't have my number, you don't know me well enough to have a problem with me.

• 43:51Speaker 09

  That is so good.

• 43:52Tom Holland?

  And I think that that is such a great piece of advice, because as a celebrity, you live on this stage, you live out there, you kind of give out a version of yourself that you want people to see. And that can be the version of yourself that they can have a problem with or they can love. And there is a, you know, I feel like I'm quite authentic in my public persona, but I just try to really care about what my family thinks, what my friends think, what the people in my local community think. I live in Kingston. I know everyone that lives there. I can't walk five feet without bumping into one of my mom's friends. So yeah, so it's something I've been working on. I try my best to not let that stuff affect me. It does.

• 44:32Speaker 09

  Yeah, of course.

• 44:32Tom Holland?

  I'm not cold-hearted or anything like that. It does affect me, but I just try to, to move on and focus on the positives.

• 44:38Speaker 09

  Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. What, what was a, did you ever see your dad deal with everything and you thought, wow, that was incredible? Like, was there anything specific that you remember that like seeing him like tackle something and you thought, wow, that really impressed me, even if it was something really small in hindsight?

• 44:53Tom Holland?

  I think the thing I admire most about my dad is his resilience. You know, he's someone who has had an incredibly successful career in his earlier life. And then later in life, his career sort of plateaued and he struggled. And he's never stopped. He's never given up. He's still gigging to this day. He's still writing books. He has a patron. He has a podcast. He's constantly grafting to get to where he wants to be. And I think being a young kid and seeing your dad continually working as hard as he can to kind of put his best foot forward, for me, has been a huge drive for my work ethic. I'll give it a hundred percent or I'll give it nothing. And I think a lot of that has come from my dad and seeing him deal with that. The funny thing about my dad is you talk about doing

• 45:37Tom Holland?

  a bad gig. I must've seen him 20 times. I've never seen him do a bad gig. He always seems to absolutely rip it. Um, but maybe that's just because we're in the audience. But he, um, but no, I, I, I owe a lot to my dad and a lot of the teachings, the things he's told me and things I've just witnessed him do.

• 45:52Speaker 09

  Yeah. And was there ever a piece of feedback or a rumor or something you saw that did affect you where you actually thought, or at least made you stop and go, God, I'm trying to see the positives, but this one's tough. Like, like this actually made me have to pause and figure it out.

• 46:09Tom Holland?

  Something that did really upset me, I was in New York. I was shooting the crowded room and I was having a really hard time with the job just because of how taxing it was, the emotional capacity that I was having to get to every day. And I decided to delete my Instagram because I just felt like I was so addicted to this kind of false version of my life, that it was just taking over. I would be on set, working, I'd come and sit in my chair and just scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll. And it was, it was becoming a problem. I was just obsessed with it. And I was obsessed to find out what people were saying and how people, what they thought about me. So I decided to make an announcement, which unfortunately we have to do, and say that I'm taking a break from social media.

• 46:53Tom Holland?

  And I, and I tried to position myself and say like, I'm taking a break from social media because I feel like my mental health will benefit from it. And the thing that really upset me is the press ran with that. And they tried to make out that I was having this mental breakdown. And what upset me was, if I was having a mental breakdown, that's not for you to report on. They, they, they took the story in the wrong direction and they tried, they painted again, this negative light on mental health, rather than saying, oh, he's doing it. It's okay that he's doing it. So we should all feel okay to do it too. They were saying, oh, look, he's not the perfect happy-go-lucky kid you think he is. He's having a nervous breakdown in New York. And I think that that was a really unfair

• 47:36Tom Holland?

  line of journalism, let's say, because I just think it again, kind of painted people looking for help in the wrong light, if you know what I mean.

• 47:46Speaker 09

  Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. It almost sounds like you were actually preemptively going, I'm doing this so that I don't

• 47:54Tom Holland?

  Right.

• 47:55Speaker 09

  go in that direction.

• 47:56Tom Holland?

  Totally.

• 47:57Speaker 09

  At, at least, I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, but

• 47:59Tom Holland?

  Absolutely.

• 47:59Speaker 09

  It's almost like I'm proactively seeing that I could end up in a position where

• 48:03Tom Holland?

  Sure.

• 48:03Speaker 09

  I might have a breakdown. I don't wanna be in that position. And so I'm responsibly saying, guys, I'm taking a break.

• 48:09Tom Holland?

  Right.

• 48:09Speaker 09

  In order to protect myself.

• 48:10Tom Holland?

  A hundred percent.

• 48:11Speaker 09

  Yeah. Which makes a lot of sense. And actually is quite admirable again.

• 48:14Tom Holland?

  Totally. And that's kind of what the message of the show is about. Like the, the message of our show is that asking for help should be something that we celebrate.

• 48:21Speaker 09

  Yeah.

• 48:22Tom Holland?

  If you're struggling, if you need help, if you feel bad and you wake up and, and you go to a friend, a therapist, a teacher, an employee or a colleague and say, I'm really struggling. I need some help. That should be something that we give you a pat on the back. Like, I would love to help you. That, I'm, I'm delighted that you asked me. And that, for me, that announcement was kind of my olive branch and the press ran with it how they ran with it. But to be fair, it kind of gave me a great drive to finish the crowded room in the way that we did. To like, if you're not gonna listen to my personal message, then you have to listen to the message of my show.

• 48:58Speaker 09

  Yeah.

• 48:58Tom Holland?

  So it kind of went hand in hand.

• 49:10Jay Shetty?

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• 49:55Jay Shetty?

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• 50:38Jay Shetty?

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• 51:32Tom Holland?

  I just wanted to do Dry January, and all I could think about was having a drink. It's all I could think about. I was waking up, thinking about it, I was checking the clock, when's it, 12? And it just really scared me. I just was like, wow, maybe, maybe I have a little bit of an alcohol thing. So I sort of decided to punish myself and say, I'll do February as well. I'll do two months off. If I can do two months off, then I can prove to myself that I don't have a problem. Two months go by, and I was still really struggling. I felt like I couldn't be social. I felt like I couldn't go to the pub and have a lime soda. I couldn't go out for dinner. I was really, really struggling.

• 52:12Tom Holland?

  And I started to really worry that maybe I had an alcohol problem. So I decided that I would wait until my birthday, which is June 1st. I said to myself, if I can do six months without alcohol, then I can prove to myself that I don't have a problem. And by the time I had got to June 1st, I was the happiest I had ever been in my life. I could sleep better, I could handle problems better. Things that would go wrong on set that would normally set me off, I could take in my stride. I had so much, such better mental clarity. I felt healthier, I felt fitter. And I just sort of said to myself, like, why, why am I enslaved to this drink? Why am I so obsessed by the idea of having this drink?

• 52:56Tom Holland?

  And I would look back and recognize that I would go to events for, for work, and, you know, I can't enjoy myself until I've had a few beers. And I just felt so much pressure. And this is one of the things why I've sort of distanced myself from the rugby community, because so much of it is about, how much can you drink? Let's get you as drunk as possible. And it's honestly been the best thing I've ever done. I'm a year and a half into it now. It doesn't even cross my mind. I've found amazing replacements that I think are fantastic. Ones that are also really healthy. I found this one beer that is full of electrolytes and it's, you know, the carbohydrates in it are long-lasting energy. So like, having a beer is now actually like a really healthy thing. I'm really lucky that all my friends are super supportive about it.

• 53:39Tom Holland?

  I've never run into that scenario where my friends are like, oh, go on, just have a beer. Like, you're fine. They've always sort of really supported me. And I don't want to be that person that's saying to people, you should get sober, you should get sober. If I could encourage someone to drink less, then that's great. But I, I don't want to start getting into the world of, you need to stop drinking, because I just, it's, it's not for me to say. I went on my own little journey. I'm really enjoying it. I'm delighted that my mum's also given up. She's loving it. And it's been amazing. I can't believe the difference that I feel from not drinking. I feel amazing.

• 54:11Jay Shetty?

  That's amazing, man. I love hearing that. And I love hearing that it's been great for you, right? I think that's, that's the point. Not everything has to be like, look what I did, you can do it too. It's kind of like, no, this is just what's been great for me. Do you think it was partly that attitude, for you at least, in the beginning, where it's like, well, look, I can drink, I drink a lot, it comes from my mum jeans, and it doesn't affect me? And then all of a sudden, you realize, well, wait a minute, it's more than that? Because I think there is that. Like, I was like that as a young man as well. Like, for me, it was, it was easy to drink. I, I didn't drink daily. For me, I drank a lot more socially. And I loved playing drinking games with my mates. And that was really what I enjoyed the most, probably. And for me, when I quit, I could just quickly see how it just got me into doing things I would never do if I wasn't drunk. So for me, for me, it was more that.

• 54:54Jay Shetty?

  But yeah, I wonder for you, did you find that it's, there's a really fine line between like, oh, I know I can drink a lot, and then all of a sudden, you're kind of addicted, not addicted beyond that?

• 55:02Tom Holland?

  No, addicted, mate. Like, I'm happy to say, like, I was definitely addicted to alcohol. Not shying away from that at all. I think anyone that wakes up and has, not wakes up, anyone that has a beer every day has probably got a little bit of a problem. But yeah, you're right. I would drink and drink and drink and drink, and then you would just reach that moment where you're like, wow, I shouldn't have had that last beer. And you wake up the next day, and you have a terrible headache, and you're suffering. I, I bought one of those rings that will tell you about your sleep.

• 55:26Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, Oura ring.

• 55:27Tom Holland?

  Yeah, and it was amazing, because I couldn't sleep. I was like, why can't I sleep? I'm working 14 hours a day, I'm doing two hours in the gym, I'm eating really healthily, and I can't sleep. What's wrong with me? I bought this ring, and it was booze. It just, it was completely affecting my sleep. And since I've given it up, I can sleep anywhere, you know? It's also interesting as well, going on nights out and having a great time as the sober person, and then getting to that point in the night where people start, you know, spitting in your ear, and everyone's, I love you, man, I love you so much. And you're like, yeah, brilliant, I love you too. I'll see you tomorrow, I'm going to bed. Like, I love being that person now. I love seeing my friends on the golf course at 8 a.m. in the morning, feeling fresh and ready to go, and they're sort of crawling out their car.

• 56:11Tom Holland?

  So yeah, so I, I'm over the moon to be sober. I love it.

• 56:15Mel Robbins?

  There are three pillars of adult friendship, based on research, that are also going to help you understand that when people come and go in your life, 99% of the time, it's not personal. And you actually haven't lost them as a friend. One of the three pillars is missing. So the three things that need to be required to have a friendship happen are the same three things that were around all the time when you were a kid. Number one, proximity. Proximity matters tremendously. Proximity means who are you actually physically next to? In fact, they've done research, Jay. If you and I were in a dorm and we lived across the hall, I don't, I don't remember the percentages exactly, but it's like, 90% chance we're going to be friends.

• 56:56Jay Shetty?

  Interesting.

• 56:57Mel Robbins?

  The poorer person at the end of the hallway, 10% chance that we're going to be friends with them, because of proximity. Even a matter of 50 feet makes a difference. And so, when you were little, you were in proximity to people your age all the time.

• 57:10Jay Shetty?

  All day.

• 57:11Mel Robbins?

  Exactly. The research also shows that to have, as an adult, a kind of casual friend, you need to spend approximately 70 hours with somebody. To have a close friend, 200 hours. So when you're an adult, that creates a big problem. Because who are you spending all your time with once you're 20? The American Times study shows that it's with people you work with. So why aren't we best friends with people at work? Because you have proximity, and you're spending a lot of time together. But here's the thing, timing. When you were little, you were in the same timing of life with everybody.

• 57:43Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 57:44Mel Robbins?

  When you hit your twenties, and it's now individual, everybody's on different timelines. Some of your friends are getting married, some are going to graduate school, some are now pursuing jobs, other people are moving out of the city, into the city. Everybody's timing is now different. And this also explains why you're almost never best friends with people at work. Because the timing is off. You're sitting next to people that are in very different times of their life. You may like them a lot, and you may be friends, but you never spend time outside of work because they're at home with their family, and you're going out with your buddies your age on the weekends. And then that brings me to the third thing

• 58:25Mel Robbins?

  that needs to be present for a friendship to truly click, and that's energy. And the thing about energy is it changes. And you can have fantastic energy with somebody, and then if you decide you're not drinking anymore, the energy's off.

• 58:38Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 58:39Mel Robbins?

  If you decide to get really focused on fitness, the energy's off. If you have very different political beliefs, the energy's off. It's not personal. It's one of these three pillars, and it has helped me so profoundly, Jay, to realize that people come and go, and it's a beautiful thing, and you should let them. And you should really, if you have a friendship that starts to dissipate, right? Ask yourself, before you blame them or you blame you, are any one of these three pillars missing?

• 59:12Mel Robbins?

  Are we not near each other anymore? Is the timing of our lives off? Is there just something about the energy that hasn't clicked? Because you can't force those things. But what I've found is that when you recognize that those are really important factors to your connection to someone else, that if a friendship starts to fade for me, it's so easy to say, "Let them." And I don't wish anybody bad. I literally wish people well. Because the other thing that I've learned, and you know, being 56, I've had a lot of friends come and go in different phases of my life, that you would be startled by how many people from your past that you no longer quote "consider friends"

• 59:57Mel Robbins?

  because you haven't seen them in a very long time, or things just got weird. If you actually called them, they'd pick up the phone.

• 1:00:03Jay Shetty?

  They would.

• 1:00:04Mel Robbins?

  If you texted them, the research shows that when you get a surprise text from somebody that you haven't heard from in a long time, the amount of joy that you feel. And so I want you to consider, if you're very lonely right now, that there's actually probably hundreds of people from your past that still consider you a friend. And if you take the approach that I'm talking about, which is, friendship is your responsibility. You need to go first. Let me create the friendship and the connection that I want. And you can start by literally taking a look through your past and thinking about people that you remember fondly, and just sending them a text. And you will be startled by what comes back. Because they're there. They haven't actually gone anywhere. The connection is still there.

• 1:00:49Mel Robbins?

  And oftentimes, even if you've had somebody where something's been off, again, let them.

• 1:00:55Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:55Mel Robbins?

  And wish them well. And there will be a time, I promise you, where the timing, or proximity, or energy comes back around again.

• 1:01:04Speaker 11

  It took me a while to learn that, you know, there's no way we could be everything to each other. We have different interests, different goals. There was a stage in my marriage where I thought that's what a partner was supposed to be. You know, you should call me all the time. We should talk all the time. We should be each other's best friends all the time. Our marriage got better when I got better about that. Because I think he already had that independence, this notion of, "I love you. Even if I don't talk to you today." That, to me, is like, "I don't need that." I felt like I needed more of that. But as I got older, right? I got more mature, more clear about my own goals.

• 1:01:48Speaker 11

  I realized that I, you know, he can't be responsible for my happiness. I have to be responsible for that. I have to define it for myself. I have to learn how to achieve it. My husband is definitely a part of that. But he is not the... I cannot put him in the center of my happiness. That freed me up to let him be him and let me be me. So I have friends who give me things that my husband doesn't give me. I have girlfriends... One distinction that we have is like, I'm a talker. All right, when I sit down with my girlfriends, we can talk for days. I mean, literally for days.

• 1:02:31Speaker 11

  We can take a break for lunch, but we can talk. You know? My husband's not... He can talk, but he will come by a friendship session, you know, 9 o'clock in the morning, I have a friend staying with me, and he's like, "What are y'all talking about?" I was like, "Well, we're just now getting into our kids."

• 1:02:48Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:49Speaker 11

  And we're gonna talk about each one of them separately for like an hour, right? He's like, "I couldn't do that." Right? He can't be that for me. But I have really good, mostly girlfriends, who give me that, you know? We will dissect life to the bitter. We will wring everything out of every subject. And he's like, "I think I'm done."

• 1:03:10Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:10Speaker 11

  And I was like, "Well, you can go be done." Because I've got her, and we just got started. We're gonna... We got 12 more hours to go, right?

• 1:03:19Jay Shetty?

  And that's so beautiful to hear, because I think, especially when we're young, we think that that person has to be all of that. And from the beginning, or they'll become it. There's the other fallacy of like, "Oh, well, I know who they could be and who they could become." How much of that did you feel you had to disconnect and detach from of like, what this person could be? To you, obviously, not in the world, but...

• 1:03:42Speaker 11

  I had to disconnect from all of those beliefs, right? And every couple is different, I've found. I know people who are each other's best friends. They like to travel together. They walk and hold hands. I have friends who are in relationships where they talk like every hour. I'm like, "Are you talking to him again?" Nothing changed. You know, it's up to the individuals to define that for themselves.

• 1:04:08Jay Shetty?

  That's the key word, yeah.

• 1:04:09Speaker 11

  For Barack and I. And I think you should be clear about that. Because the other thing is that when we hold on internally to an expectation of the other person, we don't even share it. So now we're mad that you haven't even felt something I never even told you I needed, you know? That takes time, and it takes work, which is why marriage is hard, right? Because you'll have the tendency to live in your head and live out the image of what you want them to be, and you haven't even communicated that to them. That's just one little fraction of the challenge of marriage.

• 1:04:40Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 1:04:40Speaker 11

  And friendship. And all of that. It's hard. It takes time. But it's worth it.

• 1:04:45Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely, yeah. I think those check-ins are the hardest. I know that there's four check-ins that I try and keep a good habit around with my wife that have really helped me. One of them is, every day I'll ask her like, "What was your highlight today?" Or, "What did you learn today?" Something positive, something like, "What's the best thing that happened to you today?" I want to know. Because it's so easy for us to get so busy in our days, not see each other all day, not speak all day. And days can go by like that too, because we're also traveling. Then every week I try and ask her like, "How can I... What can I help you with this week? Like, is there something coming up that I just need to be aware of?"

• 1:05:22Speaker 11

  Yeah.

• 1:05:23Jay Shetty?

  Sometimes it's just information.

• 1:05:24Speaker 11

  Yeah.

• 1:05:24Jay Shetty?

  And that gives me an opportunity to also tell her, "I've got a really stressful week coming up."

• 1:05:28Speaker 11

  Right.

• 1:05:28Jay Shetty?

  Just know that I may not be at my best this week. I'm just letting you know. Every month, I'm, you know, checking in with her and trying to just say to her like, "What's your big focus for this month?" Like, you know, "What's the big thing that you're working on?" Then every year is easy, like, you know, "What's your goal this year? A resolution or whatever?" And I find that those questions, and sometimes every quarter I'll ask a question, which is the hardest one, but it's like, "Is this relationship going in the direction you want it to?" And if it isn't, what are you willing to do? And what am I willing to do to get it back on track?

• 1:06:02Speaker 11

  Yeah.

• 1:06:02Jay Shetty?

  Because I find so often, like, if you just don't talk about that deep intimacy, you're just going on different tracks. And that's why five years later, you're like, "Well, I don't know you anymore."

• 1:06:11Speaker 11

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:06:12Jay Shetty?

  And so I find that, like, staying in close contact. But one of the biggest things I read, which I wanted to try with you, is the Gottman Institute talked about how the number one skill or habit in relationships, and they looked at couples who'd stayed together the longest. And they found it wasn't date nights. It wasn't vacations. It wasn't any of this stuff. It was learning how to fight.

• 1:06:33Speaker 11

  Oh, for sure.

• 1:06:34Jay Shetty?

  It was knowing how to deal with conflict. And most couples, obviously, we all go, "Well, we never fight, or we're never gonna fight." But it's inevitable. So I came up with these three fight styles. And I wanted to know

• 1:06:44Speaker 11

  Okay.

• 1:06:44Jay Shetty?

  how you see yourself, and how you see President Obama, or how he would see himself. And so here, the three fight styles are: A venter, which means I want to fix and solve it right now. You like to vent. You're really trying to fix and solve it. The second one is you're a hider. You need time and space to think about it. You just want to go spend time by yourself. And then the third one is the exploder, where it's like, "I want my emotions to be heard, felt, and seen before we take time apart or before we try and solve it." Which one are you?

• 1:07:14Speaker 11

  Okay, so I've changed over.

• 1:07:16Jay Shetty?

  Interesting.

• 1:07:16Speaker 11

  I think early on in our relationships, I was more of an exploder.

• 1:07:20Jay Shetty?

  Wow.

• 1:07:21Speaker 11

  I think he has been, always been a fixer, right?

• 1:07:24Jay Shetty?

  The venter, yeah, fixer, yeah.

• 1:07:26Speaker 11

  So then I would be explosive and then want to hide, right? It's like, "I want to explode. Let me have my emotions, and then give me a moment."

• 1:07:34Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 1:07:34Speaker 11

  Right? And he's like, "We've gotta fix this. We've gotta, you know, shut this down. We gotta... I will figure it out. Let's talk this through."

• 1:07:41Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 1:07:42Speaker 11

  And I love that about him, especially as a man. You know, he is somebody that is not afraid to put his emotions out. He's smart, and so he knows me. So he's like, he won't let me pretend like there's nothing wrong because he knows, "I know there's something. You're a little off, and..." But I've had to learn that exploding on a fixer, it doesn't feel good to them, right?

• 1:08:09Jay Shetty?

  Yes, yes.

• 1:08:10Speaker 11

  You know, it feels good for me.

• 1:08:11Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 1:08:12Speaker 11

  But it doesn't feel good for him, right? But he's learned that as a hider, that I do need a little more time, right? If I'm exploding, I can't be rational enough to talk through your fixing. And if you want to fix it, then I've got to be in a rational place. So let me hide for a minute so I can get myself down to a fixer place.

• 1:08:36Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 1:08:37Speaker 11

  I think that's been the trajectory of our sorting through, learning how to argue.

• 1:08:43Jay Shetty?

  If you can't explain something simply, you don't understand it well enough. Simple communication is not a sign of a lack of intelligence. It's a sign of deep understanding. As a speaker, a leader, a communicator, a manager, whatever you may be, if you're able to be concise, simple, it will be so much more powerful. Remember this. Confusion creates resistance. Clarity creates cooperation. If someone doesn't understand you, they can't support you. Good communicators ask if they were understood. Bad communicators assume they were.

• 1:09:27Jay Shetty?

  Good communicators aim for understanding. Bad communicators aim to be right. Notice the difference. Principle three. People don't argue with facts, they argue with threat. Here's a powerful insight. Most disagreements are not about facts. They're about identity and safety. When people feel embarrassed, judged, or blamed, their brain stops listening. Let me say that again. When people feel embarrassed, judged, or blamed, their brain stops listening. How many times have you stopped listening when you felt that way? Now think about all the times you spoke that way and thought it would affect someone.

• 1:10:11Jay Shetty?

  I know I've made that mistake. I constantly feel that if someone really understands what they got wrong or they were really made clear on the mistake they made, that that would make them listen more. But actually, we're not listening to that because it's not factual. It feels like opinion. It feels personal. It feels like an attack. Research in conflict psychology shows that once someone feels threatened, they prioritize self-protection over understanding. This is actually mind blowing. You think about all the interactions you have, home or work. When you make someone feel attacked, they're only thinking about protecting themselves. Effective communicators, lower threat first.

• 1:10:55Jay Shetty?

  At work, here's what I'm seeing. Tell me if I'm missing something. At home, this matters to me and I want to understand your side. These phrases do one thing. They create safety. Remember this. People don't need to feel corrected. They need to feel considered. Once safety is present, truth can land. Before sharing feedback, before saying something that's hard to hear, before you're about to have a difficult conversation, first, set safety. Second, make sure that anything you're saying is coming with the intention of safety.

• 1:11:37Jay Shetty?

  And choose your words that really align with that energy because you want to have an impact. A lot of people say, well, I should just be able to say what I want and people should understand. Well, if that's what you want, then that isn't a relationship based on care. It's not a relationship based on love. It's not a relationship based on connection. It's a relationship based on you wanting people to understand you but not taking the moment to understand them. I think this can all change for us. It can all change when we prioritize principle four. Questions change everything. One of the most powerful communication tools is curiosity. Research from negotiation psychology shows that asking open-ended questions

• 1:12:21Jay Shetty?

  reduces defensiveness and increases cooperation. Statements trigger resistance. Questions invite collaboration. Instead of, you're not listening. Ask, can you tell me what you heard from what I just said? Instead of, this isn't working. Ask, what do you think would make this work better? Questions shift the dynamic from opposition to partnership. Here's a phrase that instantly de-escalates tension. Help me understand. That sentence creates space where conflict used to be. There are so many challenges with the growth of AI. There are so many risks that it presents.

• 1:13:05Jay Shetty?

  But one of the things that I'm grateful it has done is that it has brought humans back to asking better questions. We grew up at a time when answers were everything. Now we know answers are everywhere and all of a sudden, questions and prompts are the key to our intelligence. The better you are at asking questions, the better results you'll actually get from AI. So that's a great way for us to test whether we know how to ask good questions, whether our questioning and curiosity ability is actually improving. That's the goal. If you can do that, you will actually lead your team, guide people, move people in a much stronger way.

• 1:13:47Jay Shetty?

  Manifestation is clarity about what you want and what it takes. Manifestation is writing it down and then building it step by step. Manifestation is persistence when motivation fades. Manifestation is aligning your choices with your values, not just your wishes. If you just make it about your wishes, if you just make it about what you're writing, if you don't ever make it about the how. Right? People say, start with why. Really important. You should know why you're doing what you're doing. You should know what you want to build. But if you don't know how you're going to get there, it's almost the hardest thing, right? If you don't know how you're going to get to the party on a Saturday night,

• 1:14:32Jay Shetty?

  if you don't know how you're going to get to your vacation destination, if you don't know how you're going to build that company, it becomes a lot harder. Spend more time figuring out the how and you'll know that you're making momentum. You'll know you're making progress. You'll know you're moving in the right direction. See, the thing is, I really want you to get there. I really want you to experience the joy of building something you love. I don't just want it to remain a dream in your mind and your heart space that never gets to see the light of day. Myth number four. The universe rewards wanting. If I want it badly enough, I'll get it. It does not work that way.

• 1:15:15Jay Shetty?

  Desire is fuel, but direction is the map. Without it, you spin in circles. Have you ever desperately wanted a job, relationship, or whatever it may be, but you had no strategy? Desire without direction is like stepping on the gas with no steering wheel. The reticular activating system, also known as RAS, filters what you notice. Define a goal and your brain literally starts spotting opportunities. For example, once you think of buying a red car, you see them everywhere. So here's the step. Each morning, write down three things you want to notice that day.

• 1:15:56Jay Shetty?

  Maybe new clients, learning opportunities, or ways to connect. Your RAS will tune in. This is so important. If you have a goal to write a book, start a podcast, build a company, ask yourself, what is it that you need? I was talking to a friend the other day and I'd said to him how important it was for him to show up to networking events. I said, if you're out at those events, you're going to meet people, people are going to see you, you're going to get to connect with them. He was avoiding it for months and months and months. He finally went to one and he was shocked at what it felt like to be front of mind. When you're present, you get to have the conversations you would never get to if you weren't there.

• 1:16:39Jay Shetty?

  So many of us avoid the actual action, even though in our mind, we're wondering, why is this business not taking off? Why is it not starting off? Because we're not positioning ourselves in the places that we need to be. Remember, you don't see things as they are. You see them through your own fears and hopes. You don't see yourself as you are. You see the story you keep repeating about who you are. You don't see the future as it is. You see the version you believe is possible. So many of us have the wish, we have the want, we have the desire. We don't have the direction. We don't have the drive. And where does that drive come from? Comes from picking something that you really value.

• 1:17:24Jay Shetty?

  I mean, everyone would want to be financially free. Everyone would want abundance. Those are things we all want. But what does that look like for you? How does that manifest for you? When I say that, what I mean is, how do you envision that? How's it unique to you? And how are you going to get there that's unique to you? If you connected with today's episode, check out my raw and honest talk with the one and only Cardi B. She opens up about overcoming depression and how she balanced rising to fame and creating a life for her children.

• 1:17:55Speaker 12

  But you can't tell me I'm a bad mom. I'm a great mom. If I'm good at something, it's being a mom.

• 1:18:02Speaker 13

  When fall comes back around, there's a sense of a reset. And new pieces from Lululemon's fall drop are an inspiration to push your goals and elevate your routines. As your calendar fills, easy-to-layer styles meet the demands of your day. And as you challenge yourself to try even more, versatile sets transition with you. The Lululemon fall lineup brings new levels of comfort and confidence, whether you're starting something fresh or starting something over. Check out the latest arrivals in store and on lululemon.com now.

• 1:18:32Speaker 14

  Mr. President? My company informed me of the explosion on our rig. On October 2nd. Causing massive water displacement and triggering a tsunami. They all heap the blame on me. Tom Cruise is.

• 1:18:42Speaker 15

  Digger got us into this mess. And Digger's gonna dig us up. From the director of Birdman and the Revenant.

• 1:18:48Speaker 14

  What would happen if I stopped drilling? You're stalled, you're freezing there, that's what.

• 1:18:53Speaker 15

  With great power comes great deniability.

• 1:18:56Speaker 14

  I'm not the first then.

• 1:18:57Speaker 15

  Digger, see the trailer online. Only in theaters October 2nd. Rated R, under 17, not limited without parent.

• 1:19:02Speaker 16

  Ugh, I hate Mondays.

• 1:19:04Speaker 14

  King's Hawaiian cinnamon swirl bite?

• 1:19:05Speaker 16

  Taylor Hansen? Sure, I'll try one. Mmm.

• 1:19:11Speaker 14

  Hey, let's get back to work, please.

• 1:19:12Speaker 16

  But Taylor Hansen's making my day way better with these new soft and swirly King's Hawaiian cinnamon bites.

• 1:19:17Speaker 14

  Taylor Hansen? Nice. Try one. Mmm.

• 1:19:24Mel Robbins?

  King's Hawaiian cinnamon bites. There's nothing like it.