Aspire with Jay Shetty: How to Succeed in Business Without Losing Your Soul

Emma sits down with Jay Shetty—a global media force, a spiritual leader, bestselling author, entrepreneur, and someone who's building a career with no blueprint — all while staying rooted in purpose and inner peace. In this episode, Jay opens up about what it really takes to create a life no one else has modeled — and how he's maintained his well-being in the face of massive ambition. Emma and Jay go deep on everything from meditation and mindfulness to business and betrayal, asking questions we rarely hear answered honestly: How do you protect your peace when the world keeps pulling at you? Can you chase success without burning out? Can you be ruthless in business without losing your center? This isn’t just a conversation — it’s a masterclass in building a purpose-driven personal and professional life. Whether you’re launching a new venture, redefining success, or simply trying to keep it together while aiming higher, this episode will leave you ready to tackle your goals, all while staying grounded.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:10Emma Grede?

  Welcome to the Aspire Podcast. My guest today is someone I knew I wanted to have on the minute I decided to start a podcast. He's a number one New York Times bestselling author, the chief purpose officer at Calm, a purpose driven entrepreneur and the award winning host of the On Purpose Podcast, which currently tops the charts with over 35 million monthly downloads. Welcome to Aspire, Jay Shetty.

• 0:46Speaker 01

  Hi darling. It's so good to see you.

• 0:48Emma Grede?

  I am so happy to see you. I cannot tell you.

• 0:50Speaker 01

  Congratulations first of all.

• 0:52Emma Grede?

  Oh, thank you.

• 0:53Speaker 01

  I can't believe we're in this beautiful studio. It's amazing. And when you came on the show, honestly, I want you to know, my community and audience loved you.

• 1:01Emma Grede?

  I love you for saying that.

• 1:02Speaker 01

  Everything you shared, like, everyone is so addicted to everything you have to say.

• 1:05Emma Grede?

  Oh, well, do you know what? Honestly, when we did that show, it was a real moment for me, because I said to you before, like, I don't really think I've ever spoken like that in public. I always speak about the businesses. And so it was definitely a moment.

• 1:19Speaker 01

  I'm glad. Everyone got to fall in love with you. And you're as lovable in person, too. So it was great.

• 1:23Emma Grede?

  Well, here's hoping. We're gonna get to find out if I'm that lovable. Honestly, I say it in all seriousness, when I decided to do this podcast, you were one of the first people to come into my mind, not only because we had that lovely experience, we've since become friends. I see you kind of all over the world. Do you know what I mean? It's like a random conference, then we'll be in an event together. And every time I see you, everything about you is so you. You're just one of the people that like fills me up with like warmth and happiness every single time I see you. And honestly, the whole point and the purpose of me doing this podcast was really to talk to people that I aspire to, that I think the world aspires to. And I'm really

• 2:03Emma Grede?

  obsessed with this idea that in life, you can't be what you don't see. And when I look at you as As a podcast host, as a businessman, as a coach, you've kind of crafted this career for yourself, which is literally a one of one. And you've done it all while remaining so true to your purpose and your vision. And I just wonder how you've done that. Like, how did you do or create that kind of career when there's clearly like no model for it? That's what I think.

• 2:33Speaker 01

  Life's about two things. I think you're told when you're growing up that life is about checking all these boxes, ticking all these boxes. Go to school, get good grades, get a good job, get married, have kids, and then you made it. And I actually think life's about two things. It's about collecting and connecting. What I mean by that is you spend your whole life collecting experiences. So I remember when you came on, we talked about first jobs. My first job was I delivered newspapers and I used to go around pulling my little trolley around the streets of my area and putting newspapers through. It wasn't as glamorous as it is in America where they're like riding on a bike and throwing it. It's raining in London. You gotta go put it through and you're fighting with the dog on the other side.

• 3:15Speaker 01

  But I learned a lot from that job. All the other kids in my area, they used to go chuck the newspapers on the train track. And so they lost their streets and they got given to me. So I learned, oh, if you work hard, you get a bonus. So I got more streets. I then worked at Morrison's Walmart. Like I worked at a grocery store. I was stacking shelves, pulling in inventory, putting pallets around in the warehouse. What did I learn there? I learned how merchandise was sold, how it was stacked, how it was put together. Then I was lucky enough to work in retail. I sold denim at River Island and I learned all about.

• 3:47Emma Grede?

  Really like seeing this parallel path for us right now.

• 3:51Speaker 01

  And so it's like, all you're doing your whole life, I think you think you've got to find this one job that solves everything. It isn't. My job today is a collection and a connection of so many different jobs and roles I've played. And that way, even if you hate your job right now, all you have to say is, what am I collecting here? What's the experience? What's the skill? What's the gap that I'm going to hold on to? And then in a few years' time, I'm going to connect all of them. And I think that's what I get to live today is I'm as much a media person as I am. A former monk as I am a management consultant, which I lived at at one point.

• 4:24Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 4:24Speaker 01

  As much as I'm a guy who worked in a market.

• 4:26Emma Grede?

  Hundred percent.

• 4:27Speaker 01

  All of those things.

• 4:27Emma Grede?

  You're all of those things. I talk a lot about like leveraging my own career, right? Doing one thing, learning that, mastering that, becoming excellent. And then being able to move that on to the next thing. But did you have a grand plan? Did you sit there and be like, I wanna be Jay Shetty, the Jay Shetty that can do this, this, this, this and this? Or did that happen to you? Like, at what point was there a decision where you were like, I see an opportunity here and I'm gonna put that all together?

• 4:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'd say it's lots of many steps. And I think I like saying that because I think it also gives people confidence.

• 4:55Emma Grede?

  Mm hmm.

• 4:55Speaker 01

  That they can do it. Cause I think sometimes we're told, dream big, do big, think big. And I'm like, well, where I grew up, I didn't have anyone thinking big around me.

• 5:03Emma Grede?

  Totally.

• 5:03Speaker 01

  I wasn't surrounded by people who were achieving incredible things. Everyone was just trying to do their best.

• 5:08Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 5:09Speaker 01

  To get by, including my parents. My parents' annual income together was like fifty thousand pounds.

• 5:13Emma Grede?

  Totally.

• 5:13Speaker 01

  And I'm not saying that's not a lot or a little, it's just that's what it was. And so for me, what it was, was seeing things progress. So at eleven years old, my parents forced me to go to public speaking school because they were so scared I was gonna be a shy kid.

• 5:27Emma Grede?

  Was there such a thing? What is public speaking school?

• 5:29Speaker 01

  The London Academy of Music, Drama and Arts Lambda. It's brilliant. And I got forced, I would go three hours a day, three days a week for seven years of my life. And so I learnt this skill, but I didn't have any use for it.

• 5:42Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 5:42Speaker 01

  But it was interesting. Then obviously I went and lived as a monk for three years. I learned so much eastern wisdom, I learned meditation, I learned all these skills and habits. Now I actually had a use of those public speaking skills.

• 5:54Emma Grede?

  Hundred percent.

• 5:55Speaker 01

  So I started to share what I'd learned. Then as I started to share what I'd learned, I was doing talks in rooms probably quarter of the size of this. Zero people turned up, five people turned up. And I started to think, well, maybe I need to do something online because maybe fifty people will show up.

• 6:11Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 6:12Speaker 01

  So for me, it was this incremental process of following my heart, following my passion and skill in that tiny moment. And then more becomes unfolded. And I think that's what life's like. Like, when you look up a mountain, if you've ever gone on a long hike. I was in Bhutan last year and we're hiking up to this place called the Tiger's Nest. It feels like something out of Black Panther.

• 6:32Emma Grede?

  Totally.

• 6:33Speaker 01

  There's a monastery on the edge of a cliff. And when you look up and they tell you it's three hours to get up there. Did I know every twist and turn? Did I know every peak and trough and valley? No, all I knew is I was trying to get there. This time I'd say I didn't even know three steps in front of me.

• 6:47Emma Grede?

  Really?

• 6:48Speaker 01

  And it just unfolded, yeah. That's my reality, that's real for me.

• 6:51Emma Grede?

  And do you think that that's true so much now? Like, if that is the way that your career has unfolded, there must be an element of you going, you know what, I've always been led in the right path and therefore it's just gonna happen? Or do you think nowadays you have more like of a formula? And you're like, do you know what? I know exactly where I'm going.

• 7:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, it changed.

• 7:09Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 7:09Speaker 01

  So it switched as soon as my life gained momentum. And momentum is something I think you can't manufacture.

• 7:15Emma Grede?

  A thousand percent.

• 7:15Speaker 01

  And when you get momentum, ever since I got that, which was nine years ago now, I promised myself I would never take my foot off the gas. I was like, I have.

• 7:23Emma Grede?

  You gotta lean in, you leaned in like a motherfucker. I'm like, whoa.

• 7:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was like, I never thought this was possible.

• 7:29Emma Grede?

  Yes.

• 7:29Speaker 01

  I never believed this would happen to someone like me. I never thought this was real. From this day forth, I'm gonna be really focused, I'm gonna be really strategic, and I'm gonna be really organised. And I think that's the path it took. So now I dream bigger than I ever have. I'm very clear on what our goals are, I'm very clear and focused on everything. But that comes from the confidence you get from seeing your life unfold.

• 7:50Emma Grede?

  Hundred percent. And it's interesting to me because with everything that you do, and I don't wanna make you sad, you know, you're so strategic and there's such a clear red thread through everything you do. But it seems to me that at the heart of that, you're still, you're still you, you're still, you have this purpose, you're still putting wellness at the forefront of everything. In fact, I mean, I read that you do, what, ninety minutes meditation a day? We're gonna talk about that, Jay Shetty, let me tell you. But, you know, when I think about it, we often think about ambition and wellness, or this idea of self-care and putting, you know, yourself first as at complete odds with one another, right? And yet somehow, it feels to me like you've been able to couple the ambition and the purpose

• 8:34Emma Grede?

  and this idea of looking after yourself, all, it's all triangulated. Like, is that? True, is that?

• 8:40Speaker 01

  That's so sweet and that, no, that really means so much to me because I feel so seen right now by you. And I realised I had to give myself permission for that.

• 8:48Emma Grede?

  Absolutely.

• 8:49Speaker 01

  Because in the beginning, I thought I had to just be this and just be that. So to your point, uh, I had a really amazing conversation where for me, what switched and what changed for me in allowing myself to be all of that was me saying, I cannot believe that I'm going to limit myself. There was this amazing quote from Martin Luther King.

• 9:11Emma Grede?

  Mm hmm.

• 9:12Speaker 01

  He said, people who love peace need to learn to organise themselves as well as those who love war. And if you think about that for a second, everyone who wants to tear the world down is organised, strategic and focused. That means all of us who want to do good and wellness in the world, if we're all woo woo and like peace signs up, we're not getting anywhere.

• 9:35Emma Grede?

  A hundred percent.

• 9:36Speaker 01

  Because you're basically losing the battle just from the get go.

• 9:38Emma Grede?

  Wow.

• 9:39Speaker 01

  So for me, if I really want to spread wellness at the pace people want entertainment, if I really want to make wisdom go viral, I have to be sincere and strategic. I have to be purposeful and passionate. I have to be affectionate and affirmative. I've got to be both. I, I can't choose and say, I'm just going to be this soft, you know, I'm going to sit on the mountain top and hope that this reaches the rest of the world. It's not going to happen. And so that quote means a lot to me because the fact that Martin Luther King had to organise around love, had to organise around community, it wasn't good enough to say, oh, we all love each other. We should just be kind. It doesn't work that way.

• 10:14Emma Grede?

  It doesn't work that way. But I think it's really important that you say that because I think about that all the time, that you can be two things. You can be super ambitious and you can go at it throughout the entire week and then get to the weekend and completely decompress and walk away from that. And I think people or humans have a really hard time with that idea of like, I can do this, but I can also do that. And, and you just don't seem to have that problem. Like it's just, it just comes natural to you.

• 10:43Speaker 01

  I think a big, I think a big part of that was the monk training because the point of monk training is you are where your feet are. So you're actually present. So if I'm actually where my feet are right now, that means I'm right here. That means I'm listening. It means I'm present. It means I'm conscious, which allows me to be effective in the moment. You can't be attentive when you want and then not be attentive on the other side. So if people say, I wanna be present on my vacation, but I wanna be absent at work. It doesn't work because it bleeds. Inattention bleeds into everything. So you can't choose when to be present and absent. So I've got to be present. So if I'm present with you, I'll be present on the weekend, I'll be present on holiday, and I'll be present in my workplace. If I'm absent with you, that's what leaks and that's what bleeds.

• 11:29Speaker 01

  And so you have to practice presence or absence.

• 11:31Emma Grede?

  And you practice that through meditation, right? You really do meditate ninety minutes a day.

• 11:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:36Emma Grede?

  When? When do you get the time? You know, I can't listen, don't listen. I knew you were gonna say this to me today. I took a class. I went and did like a transcendental meditation class. I did it with my husband, who somehow magically, as a man, I didn't say that, manages to get his forty minutes in a day. If I do twenty minutes a day, it is, it is a miracle. I'm like so happy with myself. But not like, tell me, tell me how. How do you get to ninety? Like, I want to be able to do that.

• 12:05Speaker 01

  First of all, being a mom is harder than being a meditator. So I'm just gonna put that out there.

• 12:08Emma Grede?

  Thank you.

• 12:09Speaker 01

  Let's just be really realistic about that first of all, right? So I don't have that. But first of all, I think it's a practice that starts at ten minutes. And I've been meditating now for nearly two decades.

• 12:20Emma Grede?

  Wow.

• 12:20Speaker 01

  For ninety minutes. But I've started very, very early in my life at ten minutes. It's not something you get to. The second thing I'll say is ninety minutes is a commitment in my path, where if I want to teach, I have to meditate that much because I wanna be a teacher. So I always say, you want your personal trainer to have six pack abs, right? So you want your trainer to work out more than you do.

• 12:40Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 12:40Speaker 01

  I'm a trainer. I've got to work out more than the person. So I don't think ninety minutes is something we should start saying everyone needs to do, just as not everyone needs to do three thousand crunches like Cristiano Ronaldo or whatever it is. So I think doing ten or twenty minutes is beautiful. I think doing five minutes is beautiful. And the way you get to it is you start to see the value and the benefit.

• 13:00Emma Grede?

  That's it.

• 13:00Speaker 01

  And I wanna make it really, really simple for people. If someone struggles with meditation and they don't even know where to find five minutes in their day, this is what you do whenever you walk into a room, whether you wake up, when you're moving in meetings. It's called the five, four, three, two, one technique. I love it. All you have to do. As you look at five things around you. So when I walked in here, I noticed the beautiful chic backdrop that you have. I noticed the beautiful gloss that you have on the name of the podcast. I noticed the table. I'm noticing shapes, shades, colours. Five things I can see. Then four things I can touch. I sat down and I touched the chair. It's different from the touch of the chair that we're sitting on, the arms in the chair. Touching my clothes, touching my hands, we gave each other a hug.

• 13:45Speaker 01

  I'm now present through touch. Three things I can hear. There's some white noise, sound of your wonderful voice. There's your team members that greeted me so wonderfully. I can hear three things. Two things I can smell. Probably been wearing too much cologne, your beautiful perfume. Maybe nothing at all, maybe I can't. And then one thing I can taste, maybe it's the mint I just had before I walked in. As soon as you focus on the five things you can see, the four things you can touch, the three things you can hear, the two things you can smell, and the one thing you can taste, you are where your feet are. You're really present. And that process becomes quicker, but we just did it in literally thirty seconds.

• 14:25Emma Grede?

  But that is, do you know what's so magic to me? Because I feel for so long, we've been talking about, in culture, about presence, about mindfulness, about meditation. And it's only in the last couple of years that I understood the power of meditation, what it gives to me. And I think in order to get down what I need to do every day, the only thing I need is energy, right? That is, that is it. And at some point, there's a finite amount of energy. And meditation for me has become, it's almost like a recharge. And so I try to think of it in not so much as, okay, Emma, like this is taking twenty minutes away from your day. It's actually so giving to me. But the benefits of meditation, I think, are really still so misunderstood, right? It's like, oh, I'm taking a minute to be calm.

• 15:09Emma Grede?

  I'm like, I'm taking a minute to be clear and energized. And I come out actually with so much clarity and so many ideas. It's crazy to me.

• 15:18Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 15:23Emma Grede?

  We spend a lot of time thinking about how to get more value out of the things we buy. But one of the biggest payments most people make every month is for housing. And historically, that's been left out of the rewards conversation. That's why Bilt is such an interesting concept. As a Bilt member, you can earn points on your housing payments, whether you rent or own. And those points can be redeemed towards things like flights, hotels, Lyft rides, Amazon.com purchases, and even future housing payments. And the membership goes beyond your housing payments. You can link any credit card or debit card to the Bilt app and earn points on eligible purchases at participating restaurants and other businesses in your neighbourhood. The app also has a neighbourhood concierge that can help you book a fitness class, make

• 16:08Emma Grede?

  a dinner reservation, or schedule a lift while automatically applying your member benefits. Download the Bilt app and join the membership for where you live at joinbilt.com/emma. That's J-O-I-N-B-I-L-T dot com slash emma. Use our link so they know we sent you.

• 16:28Speaker 02

  Hi, everyone. This is Kara Swisher.

• 16:29Speaker 03

  And I'm Scott Galloway.

• 16:30Speaker 02

  And we want to tell you about Pivot, our twice-weekly podcast.

• 16:33Speaker 03

  That's right, Kara. What a thrill. It's a chance for us to break down all the big things happening in tech, business, and politics.

• 16:40Speaker 02

  Yes, and I keep you in check so people can make it through each episode, whether it's digging into constant changes in the world of AI and social media, or trying to keep up with whatever the fuck Elon is doing. We're here to give you our take on all of that.

• 16:51Speaker 03

  Every Tuesday and Friday morning, we drop a new episode about some of the major stories of the moment.

• 16:57Speaker 02

  And Scott is a prediction machine, gazing into his crystal ball to tell you about where it's all heading.

• 17:02Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 17:03Speaker 02

  So if that sounds like a good time for you, especially Mr. That's Right, you can follow us on your favourite podcast app to get new episodes every week.

• 17:20Emma Grede?

  When you teach, because you've had so much experience at this point through coaching and through, you know, meeting so many incredible people on the podcast, when you think about wellness and practices, what are the things that you would say to my listeners that you absolutely have to adopt? If you are living a fast-paced, busy life, big career, trying to start a company, what do you need to do? What are the non-negotiables?

• 17:42Speaker 01

  Oh, that's a great question. And I'd say that some of this stuff is stuff I've implemented in corporations. When I work with my corporate clients, I've instilled this idea of if everyone took a breath for three minutes at the beginning of a meeting.

• 17:54Emma Grede?

  Just a breath.

• 17:54Speaker 01

  Just a breath, just three breaths, you won't be carrying the baggage from your last meeting into the next one. Most of us walk into a new meeting and we're still thinking about what happened in the last meeting.

• 18:04Emma Grede?

  Facts, especially if they annoy you.

• 18:06Speaker 01

  Sorry?

• 18:06Emma Grede?

  Especially if they annoy you.

• 18:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. And you haven't had a second to decompress, you haven't had a second to think about it. All of a sudden, your manager in this meeting is going, what about this, this, this, this, this? And you haven't even decompressed. If you just took three breaths at the start of that meeting, all of a sudden, you've paused, you've calmed the energy, and now you can actually be present. But going back to the non-negotiables, there's five habits that I believe are non-negotiable for high performers when it comes to high wellness. And if you look at the top athletes in the world, the top musicians, the top business performers, 80 to 90% of them practice these five habits. So these are also scientifically proven, but they're practically there. And Emma, I'd say every exec, every leader, every aspiring leader is an athlete. We have to start treating our body and minds like athlete

• 18:51Speaker 01

  because you're demanding things from your body and mind.

• 18:53Emma Grede?

  I couldn't agree more.

• 18:54Speaker 01

  Yeah. The first is thankfulness. And the reason why I say that one is the first one is because if you're not thankful for where you're at, it doesn't matter how much you'll achieve, you'll never be thankful.

• 19:04Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 19:04Speaker 01

  If you're insecure about where you're at, if you're envious about where you're at, if you're jealous, judgmental of where you're at, that's what you're going to be like when you're at the top of the mountain or when you're at the bottom of the mountain. So the way I'd say to be grateful is not a journal, don't write about it, you have to share it. If you want gratitude to work, it has to be three things: expressed, specific, and personal. So if I'm going to be grateful... Grateful to you, Emma, like you were kindly to me at the start of this. You expressed it. You said, Jay, I love coming on your show. You were specific. You were like, Jay, when I came on your show, I got to talk about things that I don't really talk about. And you were personal. You said, you made me feel really comfortable. You did all of those three things. If you think about most gratitude, it's generic. I'm grateful for life.

• 19:46Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 19:46Speaker 01

  I'm grateful for the air. I'm grateful for the cloud. And you'll be grateful in your journal. You never share it.

• 19:52Emma Grede?

  Yes.

• 19:52Speaker 01

  It's just writing it down. That doesn't work. Studies show that if you share gratitude, if you express it, it's specific and it's personal. You can't be worried or anxious at the same time. It's not possible.

• 20:04Emma Grede?

  This is like a lightbulb moment for me. Because one of the things, I mean, I have been keeping a gratitude journal since like the Oprah days, right? As a kid, I learned that that was something, and I don't think I understood it so much, like, you know, back then. But I really knew this makes me feel good. And for me, it was about redirecting what was going on in my head at the time and having something else to think about. But what I do do all the time is write to people. I constantly send emails saying, this thing that you did was really seen, was really appreciated and made me feel like this. And thank you for doing that. In the hope that they continue that behavior and maybe somebody else gets the same treatment. But I didn't actually understand like the scientific piece of it, because I'm just like here writing in my gratitude journal.

• 20:48Emma Grede?

  I didn't actually put those, you know, I always think about it as like you do someone a favor, they do something nice to you. You know, it's like just being grateful, being English, being like, you know, polite, like a nice girl. I never thought about it in the sense of connecting it to the gratitude practice.

• 21:01Speaker 01

  Absolutely. And it changes everything because you just said, and I'd say that to people. For the next seven days, do what Emma does. Send one person personally and one person professionally, a text, an email, a voice message, a video message. Doesn't have to be long, thirty seconds, and share gratitude that's specific and personal. It will change your relationships, it will change how you feel. It will make you feel like you're connected to people, you're not lonely at the top. You actually have, you're paving the way for others to follow as well. There's so many benefits, so that has to be.

• 21:30Emma Grede?

  I love that one. And you can do that in work too. Like, why wouldn't you do that with your colleague?

• 21:34Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 21:34Emma Grede?

  Because we're in such a rush all the time and the winds happen. And you could literally turn around and be like, you did this amazing job. I love the way you did X. Da, da, da, da. It's like so simple. All right, what's the second habit?

• 21:43Speaker 01

  So the second habit is something I called insight. I think about humans really interestingly. If you're hungry, you go to your refrigerator or Uber Eats or whatever it is and you find food. If you're out of milk, you buy milk. But when we're out of inspiration, we panic. If we're out of motivation, we panic. If we're out of energy, we panic. Like, it's like, oh, my God, there must be something wrong with me. There's something like that's not working for me. I think it's really important that we learn something every day. The problem is we stop studying the moment we leave school. And we need to learn one insight per day. It could be the tiniest thing someone says to you. It could be listening to your podcast right now and you'll take away one insight. Could be learning a new word.

• 22:24Speaker 01

  It could be anything, just learning one tiny thing a day changes the brain. It makes you feel like you're moving. You don't feel stuck anymore because you have a new piece of insight. You have a new experience that you can share with someone else. And your podcast is going to do that for so many people.

• 22:38Emma Grede?

  Honestly, I love, well, I love that you say that, first of all. But this is one of my biggest single things. And, you know, I feel like I didn't take very much away from school at all. But there's this great quote that I love and I think about it every day. It's that the more you learn, the more you earn. She's a very Emma quote. It wasn't me, it was Warren Buffett. But it's one that, you know, I'm a lifelong learner and I have been like that since I was a kid. But I think I've connected it to this idea of like just growth, right? Personal growth in my life. If I can learn something every day, learn something about someone, that is me expanding my horizons, expanding what I know. I love the way you contextualize it. It's like insights, right? And that is so important for people. Like, if you can make that a habit every single day, I'm just gonna learn the smallest little thing.

• 23:23Emma Grede?

  How do you practice that? Like, what do you do? What do you learn?

• 23:25Speaker 01

  I think you can literally go, okay, I'm gonna learn a new word every day. I'm just gonna get ChatGPT to give me a new word every day. Like something unique, something I've never heard before, a word in another language. It can be that simple. For me, I like to just, I mean, I'm lucky, I get to sit down and interview people. So I'm learning stuff all the time. And, and I think anyone who's listening is learning all the time. But it's like, at one point in my life, I listened to Steve Jobs's Stanford commencement speech every day for nine months. And not only did- What a speech.

• 23:53Emma Grede?

  What a speech.

• 23:54Speaker 01

  One of the best speeches of all time.

• 23:55Emma Grede?

  What a speech. One where he talks about dogma.

• 23:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:59Emma Grede?

  It's it's so. First of all, I've taken so many parts of that speech. I keep like post-its on the inside of my bathroom mirror. So many parts of that. I've posted that speech in parts in so many ways. It's it really is. Cause what does he say? There's a part in there where he talks about.

• 24:14Speaker 01

  Don't be trapped by dogma.

• 24:17Emma Grede?

  And the best invention of life is death, that it's finite. And I'm like, oh, it's so crazy, that speech, no? So you listen to that every day as like a way of learning, like feeding yourself.

• 24:29Speaker 01

  At one point in my life, I listened to it every day for nine months. And I promise you, not only did I know the words off by heart, the words started to change my heart and my life, because you start to live them. Repetition, we also living at a time where we always want new and fresh.

• 24:43Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 24:43Speaker 01

  I think there's a power in repetitive insights. Sometimes learning the same thing again and again every day, lets it drop into your consciousness and all of a sudden you're acting differently.

• 24:52Emma Grede?

  Yeah, it changes you.

• 24:54Speaker 01

  It changes you.

• 24:54Emma Grede?

  Oh my goodness, these habits are changing me. All right, number three.

• 24:58Speaker 01

  We talked about number three, so I won't talk about it too much, but mindfulness or meditation.

• 25:02Emma Grede?

  Yes.

• 25:02Speaker 01

  Having a check-in with yourself. I always say to people, you schedule meetings with your family, your friends. You never cancel things for your kids. You never ever cancel a meeting with someone else, but you'll never schedule one with yourself. You just don't do it. It's not there. And so what I say to people is just, at the beginning, at the end of your day, have a meeting with yourself. It could be three minutes. Put it in the calendar. Three minutes at the start of the day, three minutes at the end. And just check in with yourself at the start and say, what do I need today to make it a great day? Is it a cup of coffee? Is it a great meeting? Is it me making sure that I'm prepared for Emma's podcast? Like, what's the thing that's gonna make today great? And at the end of the day, let me just reflect on how my day was and how did it go for me? That's the beginning of meditation.

• 25:45Emma Grede?

  Why is it so difficult for women, for example, to actually create that space and time? Because like I said to you, my husband will have no problem meditating. Finding the time to meditate forty minutes a day. This is a very busy businessman. He also has four kids and a lot going on. Why would so many women find it hard to make that appointment with themselves and to make the time and the space?

• 26:08Speaker 01

  If I'm honest, I mean, women are more caring, they're more nurturing.

• 26:12Emma Grede?

  But just not about themselves?

• 26:13Speaker 01

  They've been programmed to believe that they should be taking care of everyone else. They have the capacity to. So that's their role in society. I think women have been programmed to believe that their worth comes from helping everyone else and not themselves. Their value comes from being there for the village and not themselves. And so a lot of it's programming, conditioning for decades.

• 26:35Emma Grede?

  Yes.

• 26:35Speaker 01

  Where women have had to put themselves. Centuries. Century, sorry, centuries.

• 26:38Emma Grede?

  No, but absolutely true.

• 26:39Speaker 01

  Where women have had to put themselves second, third, tenth, even if they're on the list at all. And it's really sad because if you think about it, women have the greatest impact on society. I mean, when I think about my mum, my mum made me and my sister breakfast, lunch and dinner fresh every day. She dropped me and her to school until I was old enough to take the bus myself. She picked us up from school. When we got home, she did our homework with us. She went out to work in the evenings and then came back. My mum has had more impact on me than any other human on planet earth.

• 27:13Emma Grede?

  Without a doubt.

• 27:14Speaker 01

  And because of her sacrifice for me, I feel so in love. But the only thing I would have wanted as a child is for her to do something for her.

• 27:22Emma Grede?

  Right.

• 27:23Speaker 01

  Now, when I think about it, and even at this age, like if I told my mum, mum fly to LA, I miss you. She'd jump on a plane.

• 27:28Emma Grede?

  One thousand percent, as any mum would.

• 27:30Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 27:30Emma Grede?

  But that's why I always talk about this idea, and I've mentioned it on your podcast, of putting yourself first. And I do think that at the end of the day, we've just got to get comfortable with putting ourselves first. And if you can think about meditation in that sense, that actually you're doing something for the good of everyone around you because it betters you, it adds to you, it feeds you, it just. Is that again, that reframing of how we think about something as being, is this taking away from everyone around me? Or is this giving to everyone around me? And I find the meditation piece, this is giving.

• 28:01Speaker 01

  You hit the nail on the head. It it's all about the reframe.

• 28:04Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 28:05Speaker 01

  It's all about the reframe of, am I giving people the best of me or giving them my leftovers? And most of us are just giving our leftovers. And by the way, that's not your fault. It's how things have been structured, how society's been conditioned. But if you start investing in yourself, your parents get a better version of you, your partner gets a better version of you, your kids get a better version of you, your colleagues get a better version of you, you will give the best version of yourself to everyone. If you've done the one thing in your day for three minutes for yourself, whether that's a coffee, watching a video, whatever it be for you.

• 28:36Emma Grede?

  Oh, I'm just glad we're down to three minutes and not ninety. This I can cope with. All right, number four.

• 28:42Speaker 01

  Number four is the one we all know, which we've heard a million times, but we don't do it is exercise. And I've heard.

• 28:47Emma Grede?

  And I know, and I know you say that, like you've heard all of these things a million times. But it is the most obvious things that have the biggest impact, right? So, so when you talk about these habits, because they feel simple, making it a habit, now how do you make your exercise a habit?

• 29:02Speaker 01

  There's two things about human psychology that make exercise easier. One is it has to be collaborative and two, it has to be competitive.

• 29:11Emma Grede?

  Collaborative, I work out at five thirty in the morning. Now, who am I doing that with?

• 29:13Speaker 01

  So you don't need a real person there, even if it's an accountability part, if there's someone else who's waking up in another climate, in another environment. It could be someone online, like whenever you're, even if you're posting your scores with your friends, and you might not be working out at the same time, but it's collaborating and knowing that other people you love and trust are working out as well. It's having that community around you.

• 29:32Emma Grede?

  I don't like this one. Am I not, am I not allowed to like some of the, some of the habits? Five thirty AM, I look like shit, I don't want to talk to anyone, that's my quiet time in the day. Like the collaboration, could I, could I like? Text someone?

• 29:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a different definition. When I say collaborative, I don't mean it has to be with someone.

• 29:50Emma Grede?

  Okay.

• 29:50Speaker 01

  Because that's not possible for a lot of people. When I say collaborative, it means you know other people who have the same goals. You're talking about it, you're texting about it, you're messaging about it, you're connecting about it.

• 29:59Emma Grede?

  And that's important for what reason?

• 30:01Speaker 01

  Well, because you feel like, well, we're both on this journey together. We've both got that goal together. It's the community. We all work better when we feel accountable, even if it's to a friend. That doesn't mean that they're there in the room. It doesn't mean that you've got to be dressed up for your workout at five thirty. What it means is me and my friends set a goal and there's a community of us and we're all inspiring each other. Humans work better that way. The second is make it competitive. Humans love winning.

• 30:25Emma Grede?

  Now, there's one I can get with. Funny that.

• 30:27Speaker 01

  Humans love winning. You do the ten thousand step contest in your family. Everyone's gonna be walking at nine P M trying to get to ten thousand and two. So make it competitive. That's what we've not done with exercise. We've tried to make it routine.

• 30:39Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 30:40Speaker 01

  We've tried to make it a habit. This stuff gets boring.

• 30:43Emma Grede?

  Yep.

• 30:43Speaker 01

  Competition doesn't get boring.

• 30:45Emma Grede?

  We all loved it when we were kids and you had to go and beat the other school. Now it's like, what are we doing?

• 30:49Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 30:50Emma Grede?

  Okay.

• 30:50Speaker 01

  So that's how you made it more interesting.

• 30:51Emma Grede?

  I can get with that one.

• 30:52Speaker 01

  And then the final one is sleep and this one is the underestimated one.

• 30:57Emma Grede?

  Yes.

• 30:58Speaker 01

  Because people just don't realise how much sleep is boosting their life. So those five habits go thankfulness, insight, meditation, exercise, sleep, it spells times, T I M E S. So you can remember that as always being the five non-negotiables.

• 31:13Emma Grede?

  That's a really good five non-negotiables. And when we talk about purpose, because I feel like this is such a signature for you in every single thing that you do. When you write a bestselling book and when you do this podcast and when you go out on tour and when you're doing your coaching, every single thing that you do is fully on purpose, right? There feels like there's no accidents. It feels like everything that you do is for the greater good. Have you been able, like, did you really understand that? That was a winning formula? Or was it something that you just were like, this is just who I am?

• 31:53Emma Grede?

  And how do you think about broadening your business empire and still keeping purpose at the heart of it? Like, I wonder sometimes, does it stop you from doing things? Do you get offers and be like, yeah, I wish I could do that. If it had more, if it had more purpose to it, I would take that check. Like, but does that happen?

• 32:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, I've, I've left far more, mu- mu- far much more money on the table than for sure. But I don't feel bad about it and I don't feel like I missed out.

• 32:15Emma Grede?

  Mm hmm.

• 32:16Speaker 01

  Because the purpose is what makes it meaningful. And actually, I would argue that nothing can sustain without purpose. Everything that has lasted in the world has had purpose behind it. It's one of the reasons why the world religions have lasted for so long. It's why Stoicism has been 2,000 years old. It's why, why the Vedas are 5,000 years old. Like, what else in the world has lasted 1,000, 2,000, 3,000 years? It's only things with really deep purpose. So to me, purpose actually is what clarifies your brand. It's what creates who you are and why you're different. If you didn't have a purpose and you did just take every deal that came your way and said yes to everything, you actually wouldn't be a well-known brand or entity because then you'd just be what everyone else is.

• 33:00Emma Grede?

  Totally.

• 33:01Speaker 01

  There's a thing that defines you as being different. That is your purpose. It's your reason for being. So I actually think purpose strengthens business and brand versus weakens it. Because otherwise you're just some homogenous product that could be anything.

• 33:14Emma Grede?

  But you must work with a lot of people that come to you and say, I don't know what my purpose is.

• 33:18Speaker 01

  Hundred percent, yeah. That's the biggest question.

• 33:20Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 33:21Speaker 01

  And I think the problem with that question is, is we think purpose is this one thing that solves everything for us and figures it all out. And to me, purpose is a lot simpler. It's finding what you're passionate about and using what you're passionate about in the service of others to improve other people's lives.

• 33:40Emma Grede?

  And does it always have to be in the service of others? Do you believe that? Like, you wouldn't do a business, for example, if like, if it's not helping someone, if it's not helping.

• 33:47Speaker 01

  I don't think it would work.

• 33:48Emma Grede?

  Right.

• 33:49Speaker 01

  I don't, I think that is the core value of business. I can't think of a business that exists successfully that hasn't helped people in some way. Whether you like the way it helps people or not is is subjective.

• 34:00Emma Grede?

  Totally.

• 34:01Speaker 01

  You could argue and say, well, this business shouldn't exist. But there are people that buy that product, which means it is useful for those people.

• 34:08Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 34:08Speaker 01

  Whether you think it's useful or not, like this microphone, whoever invented it.

• 34:11Emma Grede?

  Totally.

• 34:11Speaker 01

  It's like, to us, it's really important as podcasters. To the average person, they don't need a microphone in their life. So this product has a use. And so I think every business that exists must have and does have a purpose. Because that is what makes it relevant, accessible and and practical for people to use.

• 34:33Speaker 04

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• 35:09Emma Grede?

  What happens if your purpose is not linked with your profession? Because I think for so many people, if you work like just some regular job that doesn't, you know, you don't find particularly inspiring, what like, you know, can your purpose be something that is just totally unrelated to your profession?

• 35:25Speaker 01

  Yes, and this is one of the biggest mistakes we've made in the world of personal growth is we've put pressure on people to say, your job should satisfy every part of you. It should make you happy, you should love it, it should be meaningful. Now, that's well intentioned, because you spend like nine hours a day at work. You're going to spend a third of your lifetime at work. So the truth is, you should make it as good as it can be. Because otherwise, you're basically saying, I'm okay for a third of my life to not be great.

• 35:54Emma Grede?

  Totally.

• 35:54Speaker 01

  That's a lot of time. So I would encourage people to do this. There's a beautiful study that Amy Wrazniewski and her team at Yale did. And in 2019, they went out to find what they believed was the most difficult job in the world.

• 36:08Emma Grede?

  Mm hmm.

• 36:08Speaker 01

  And mainly in America. So they went out and they were like, what's the most difficult job? So it wasn't what you do, it's not what I do.

• 36:14Emma Grede?

  Funny that.

• 36:15Speaker 01

  And the most difficult job in the world was to be a hospital cleaner. Because these people have to clean, routine. By the way, you just cleaned up and now the toilet's a mess again.

• 36:24Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 36:24Speaker 01

  You just cleaned up and someone's bed's changed again. You clean bed sheets, toilets, plates, et cetera, et cetera. And you have to even clean up after people pass away. So it's a really heavy job.

• 36:33Emma Grede?

  It's a heavy job.

• 36:34Speaker 01

  So they went and interviewed these hospital cleaners. And they asked them, what do you do?

• 36:38Emma Grede?

  Mm hmm.

• 36:38Speaker 01

  Half the hospital cleaners said, we're low skilled labour. We clean plates, toilets, et cetera, in their own words. Then they went and interviewed some other ones. And they didn't call themselves cleaners. They called themselves healers and carers and servers. These cleaners or healers work the exact same hours.

• 36:57Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 36:58Speaker 01

  They work the same job. They work the same shift. They worked in the same hospitals with the same people at the same pay. But they were happier and more purposeful. They asked them why they called themselves healers. They said, we believe that a clean hospital is integral to the healing journey of the patient. If the hospital's clean, people feel a sense of dignity when they use the toilet. If the hospital's clean, people's family spends more time with them by their bedside when they need it. If the hospital's clean, it's just a nicer atmosphere for someone to be sick in. And I was thinking, wow, like, it blows my mind when I share it. It gives me goosebumps.

• 37:34Emma Grede?

  No goosebumps.

• 37:34Speaker 01

  It's the hardest job in the world, but you've made it make sense for you.

• 37:38Emma Grede?

  Yes.

• 37:39Speaker 01

  And so what I realised through that is it's not what we do for work. It's how we feel about it.

• 37:44Emma Grede?

  Yes.

• 37:44Speaker 01

  And that's what Amy Rosenewski and her team, they came up with this term called job crafting. It's not what you do, it's how you feel about the work you do. So what I'd encourage people to do, if you hate what you do, you don't like it. By the way, I've been there, you've been there.

• 37:56Emma Grede?

  We've all been there.

• 37:57Speaker 01

  The best thing to do is ask yourself, what am I going to learn from my next job?

• 38:00Emma Grede?

  Yes.

• 38:01Speaker 01

  What can I get passionate and excited about? What passion? Before I was doing this, I was teaching meditation on top of my day job at Accenture.

• 38:09Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 38:09Speaker 01

  I was in a big corporate company and I was teaching meditation in my evenings, lunchtimes, whatever breaks I had. I didn't get paid for it. It wasn't my job, but I loved it. Bring your passion to work. And you know what that does? It gives you the confidence to build a side hustle. It gives you the confidence to make it your main hustle.

• 38:25Emma Grede?

  Yes.

• 38:25Speaker 01

  It gives you the confidence to go and do it.

• 38:27Emma Grede?

  All the things.

• 38:28Speaker 01

  All of the things. So, so yes, your purpose doesn't have to be your job. But if you can make your job more meaningful, you'll have a better life.

• 38:35Emma Grede?

  Yeah, I believe that a thousand percent. And I also think there are people that will just find purpose outside of work entirely, right? There has to be that part. And I think that right now we're so obsessed with, you know, success and we're so obsessed with, you know, what that means professionally. But I think there are a lot of places in my life where I take a lot of pride and, you know, it's like, I love cooking and I aspire to be a better chef every single day. But it's something that I practice at, right? It's like, I take a lot of pride. I'm gonna try like a really complicated recipe over the weekend. Like, it's a challenge to me, but it's something that to me, outside of what I do here every day in this building, it feels like I am learning and I'm growing and I'm leaning into like a different part of me.

• 39:20Emma Grede?

  And I'm not saying that that is necessarily something I can get really ambitious about, but for me, it gives me purpose.

• 39:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:25Emma Grede?

  And, you know, it's like now it feels like we've kind of lost this idea of hobbies. And I feel like hobbies can be so purposeful. You can have this other side of you that gets nurtured. And I don't know, I just like enjoy the idea of like having different parts of me and that can sometimes feel very lost. Do you have another side of you, like a thing that you do that has nothing to do with like the J that we know?

• 39:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I, and I love what you're saying because your purpose doesn't have to be big.

• 39:50Emma Grede?

  No.

• 39:50Speaker 01

  Your purpose doesn't have to get you followers. Your purpose doesn't have to make you money. Your purpose can be something that you love doing and you do it and share it with the people you love. For me, it's, so I love football. I'm a huge Manchester United fan.

• 40:03Emma Grede?

  Manchester United?

• 40:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's not a good time.

• 40:04Emma Grede?

  I'm an Arsenal girl, babe.

• 40:05Speaker 01

  Oh, you're an Arsenal, yeah. Yeah, I grew up right in between Arsenal and Tottenham, but my dad,

• 40:10Emma Grede?

  Oh, you did?

• 40:10Speaker 01

  As every immigrant Indian who moved to England in the eighties, you either support United or Liverpool. So my dad supported United.

• 40:17Emma Grede?

  So you gotta go with your dad.

• 40:18Speaker 01

  I had to go with my dad.

• 40:19Emma Grede?

  I'm that much of a rebel. This says a lot about us. I went against my family, who are all West Ham supporters. And I went to Arsenal.

• 40:25Speaker 01

  Good choice.

• 40:26Emma Grede?

  Yeah, it was just, it was a good choice, wasn't it? A glory hunter, they call me in England, I think.

• 40:30Speaker 01

  Better choice. I love football. I love playing football. I love talking about football. I can get so into it. For me, it's pickleball is my challenge right now.

• 40:36Emma Grede?

  Oh, wow.

• 40:38Speaker 01

  Pickleball, I'm playing this weekend, I get hyped about it, can analyze it all day, my whole TikTok feed is just pickleball clips. And it's something to get excited about, that is so disconnected. And me and my friends talk about it all the time. You're not on your phone when you're doing these things.

• 40:50Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 40:50Speaker 01

  You're not watching something else, you're not distracted, you can only do that thing. When I'm playing pickleball, there's nothing else on my mind and it's a beautiful thing to get lost in as well.

• 40:58Emma Grede?

  No, it's amazing. I think it's really important to have these things. I want to get back because you spoke to us so beautifully about these habits for wellness, for your own kind of, you know, idea of personal growth. One of the things I think about so much is actually this idea of like constantly getting better at what I do. And you're a coach, you're a coach for, I think, a lot of really fabulous people, people that are very, very incredible at what they do and very accomplished at what they do. But do you have a coach?

• 41:26Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 41:26Emma Grede?

  You do?

• 41:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, you have to.

• 41:27Emma Grede?

  Do you?

• 41:28Speaker 01

  You have to. I mean, my, my coaches.

• 41:29Emma Grede?

  Get out of it.

• 41:30Speaker 01

  My coaches are definitely my monk teachers.

• 41:32Emma Grede?

  Okay.

• 41:32Speaker 01

  Like who I still see. So every January I'll go back to the monastery that I used to live at in India.

• 41:37Emma Grede?

  No way, you do that every January?

• 41:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, and Robbie comes with me too.

• 41:40Emma Grede?

  No.

• 41:40Speaker 01

  It's, the time has definitely got less. When I first left, it used to be like a month every January, three weeks. Now it's like 10 days.

• 41:46Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 41:46Speaker 01

  But for 10 days, I go back into monk mode and I lock in and I'm just learning from my teachers. I see them as coaches and they're guiding me to deepen my spiritual practice and my meditation. And I find that I make so much progress because of that. Because if you have a coach who doesn't have a coach, then they're not growing either.

• 42:04Emma Grede?

  Right.

• 42:04Speaker 01

  And that's just the reality of it. It's like, you want to have a teacher who has a teacher, you want to have a entrepreneur mentor who has an entrepreneur mentor and that's how it gets passed down.

• 42:11Emma Grede?

  Yeah, I'm sensing a theme here, Jay. This is really like something that you believe in. But this constant learning, this constant growing, does that get exhausting? Do you get to the point, now I just wonder, does, does Jay Shetty ever get to the point where you're like, I'm so annoyed and angry? Like, do you ever just lose it? Like, do you ever just like go nuts and, and not be like centered and meditative about it? And do you know what, like, please, please?

• 42:36Speaker 01

  I'm gonna give you the honest answer. I grew up in a house that was very angry and very, uh, like chaotic.

• 42:44Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 42:45Speaker 01

  And so I promised myself I would never feel. And I I don't anger is not an emotion that I struggle or experience. Do I get frustrated? Do I get annoyed? Do I get struck? Of course I do. I'm human like, of course I do. The anger thing is just a very separate, you know, a very separate thing. But of course I get annoyed. Do I snap at my wife who I adore? Yes, of course I do. Is she really forgiving and tolerant? Yes, she is like, you know, have I have I been in a mood and a strop? And, you know, been irritable and agitated? Of course, like, yes.

• 43:15Emma Grede?

  But you don't lose your shit, Jay.

• 43:18Speaker 01

  I've I I just I grew up in a house where I saw that every day. And it was just a promise I made to myself that I couldn't do it because I didn't see value in it. I just didn't see benefit in it. What I'm trying to say is there's a difference between aggression.

• 43:30Emma Grede?

  Yes, of course.

• 43:31Speaker 01

  Frustration and stress.

• 43:33Emma Grede?

  Yes.

• 43:33Speaker 01

  I feel lots of frustration and stress. I don't feel aggressive.

• 43:36Emma Grede?

  And I know you say like, you don't lose it and you don't like get angry and and and have that feeling. But it's something that happens, right? And in business, when you're doing as many things as you do, not everything goes right. Now, everything plays out the way that you want it to be. So how do you handle discourse? And how would you like handle conflict or something just like not going your way? Something that is really like, do you know what? This thing happened and it was really unfair. I don't feel good about it. What are your tips for that?

• 44:04Speaker 01

  And by the way, of course, and and I don't wanna I don't wanna de like, I don't wanna make it out like I don't get upset. That's not the point. It was the aggression.

• 44:11Emma Grede?

  It's the aggression part, yeah.

• 44:13Speaker 01

  For me, I need, if I'm going through something that feels unfair, if I'm going through something that I don't understand, if I'm going through something tough, I need to switch off all outside noise and be alone. Because my take is if I can't figure out how I feel about it, hearing everyone else's opinions is not gonna make me feel better. So even if my friend goes, oh, but you're fine, like you're doing great, not gonna make me feel better. If my mom says to me, remember how strong you are, not gonna not gonna make me feel better. I need to go into complete silence, complete isolation and complete seclusion and figure out how I feel about it. That means going to the darkest place in my mind and heart. It means feeling the anger and the stress and the pain and the frustration and everything else it is. And then figuring out what I'm gonna do about it.

• 44:58Speaker 01

  And it all has to be on me because that's how I know how to move through tough moments. Then I can go out and say, all right, let's check in with this person, figure it out. But I need that complete seclusion of step one. Because I think so often we're angry and we talk to someone and you kind of use that as a crutch to get over it. But you haven't processed it. And for me, processing my emotions and my feelings is my number one priority.

• 45:19Emma Grede?

  Does that give you clarity if you go into that place, that very dark place? You come out and you have absolutely clarity and you know what you need to do next?

• 45:27Speaker 01

  Well, step one is I just feel the pain. I allow myself to feel sad, I allow myself to feel upset, I allow myself to feel stressed. I then ask myself the question, is what I'm feeling a fact or a feeling?

• 45:39Emma Grede?

  Mm hmm.

• 45:40Speaker 01

  What is the fact and what's the feeling? I have to get to that point. So after feeling the pain, is it fact or is it feeling? Then I realize if I actually focus on the facts, it's probably not as bad as I think it is. There's something to be able to, that I can solve here. If it's a feeling, okay, there's something, there's, there's healing required. The second question I ask is, do I need an affirmation or is an action gonna solve it? An affirmation could be just, I'm here for a reason. I belong here, I deserve to be here, I'm doing the right thing. Sometimes I need to repeat that thought. Sometimes I need to take an action to solve the problem.

• 46:12Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 46:12Speaker 01

  Or I need to go call that person, I need to go figure that thing out over there. So those two questions save me the stress after I let myself feel the pain.

• 46:19Emma Grede?

  Got it.

• 46:20Speaker 01

  Is it fact or feeling?

• 46:21Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 46:21Speaker 01

  Let's deal with the facts, let's not get carried away with the story, right? Let's not build a whole story here.

• 46:26Emma Grede?

  No, it's not build a narrative that didn't happen.

• 46:28Speaker 01

  That didn't happen in my head.

• 46:29Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 46:29Speaker 01

  And second of all, if it's a story, then I need an affirmation. I've got to keep changing the script in my head. I'm here for a reason, I belong here, I deserve this, this is the right thing for me. That's gonna solve that. And if it's a fact, then only an action can solve a fact, right? You've got to go figure out what the fact is and solve it. And I think too many of us, we don't get into action because we don't focus on what I'm actually feeling. We don't get to the root of it. If you get to the root of it, you know what you need to do.

• 46:54Emma Grede?

  Well, because people spin in conflict, right? What happens is you get the thing, the, the feeling that drives you crazy and you stay there and you ruminate on that feeling instead of processing, as you're saying, and then being able to move past something and figure out what the Action is that that takes a lot of it's training. It's a muscle for you to be like, okay, I'm going to get past this and actually do what I need to do to to move through it. And I actually think that that's a really useful tip in business because at the end of the day, we've got to move forward. You're trying to get to a place and you're ultimately trying to win. And if you stay in that place of conflict of something like really getting to you, you don't ever get to the place where you move past it.

• 47:32Speaker 01

  Totally. And that's where you have to focus on facts because your feelings will always lie to you.

• 47:36Emma Grede?

  Your feelings will lie to you. Don't believe what your brain will tell you.

• 47:41Speaker 01

  Believe everything your mind thinks and don't sign up and think it's the truth. It's going to keep tricking you.

• 47:45Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 47:46Speaker 01

  Because your brain is wired to spot the negative and to spot the worst and to spot everything that's going to go that way. So, yeah, it's it's a muscle that you have to train for sure.

• 47:54Emma Grede?

  I just wonder, do you think that you can be really successful in business, really like an absolute animal and be at the top of your game and have the purpose element and the kind of gift that you've got of like everything coming together so beautifully. Do you think that those two things are simpatico or not really?

• 48:16Speaker 01

  I didn't used to believe it was, but now I believe it's necessary. I don't even know if it's possible, but it's needed. I want the most successful people in the world to be the most purposeful people in the world. That would build a better world because otherwise we're seeing unhealthy, unwell people be leaders of the world. And I don't want to live in that world. So I don't think it's a choice anymore. I think every one of us who has a purposeful bone in our body has to go and build something and make both work.

• 48:44Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 48:44Speaker 01

  Because that's what the world needs. The world needs organized people who are heart centered. The world needs people who are strategic and really sincere and genuine. The world needs people who are high performers and highly compassionate and graceful. By the way, you're all those things too. So it's not just about me. I feel that when I'm with you. I feel that with the people you work with. I feel that with friends we have in common. I know plenty of people that I think are wonderful people and operating at a really high level. I also know people who are not doing that. And so you get best of both, but you get that everywhere. I just think it's what we need and I think it's what we need to encourage. I think it's what. To be taught at business school. I think it's what it needs to be taught online.

• 49:21Emma Grede?

  Why do you think it's not taught in business school in that same way? Like, do you feel like we're missing a module of, you know, people having like being able to like, you know, flex that muscle of here's how you're going to look after yourself. Here's how you're going to find purpose. Here's how you're going to like thread this, uh, you know, element of in self growth or, you know, or maybe even it's, it's, it's more like self love. But is that like a balance that somehow we're missing?

• 49:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:49Emma Grede?

  In our education, in our bit, like in our business education, or even when we just talk about business. Because if you ask me, I don't know many people that are truly like when I talk like the mega successful people that don't sit at this like the, or, or haven't discovered the intersection of their success and some kind of either spiritual practice or, you know, something that has a deeper meaning within them. And yet it's not something that we talk about in business school at all. So like, do you reckon somebody's just missing?

• 50:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think that, I mean, if you look at some of the greatest music artists in the world, their art comes from a really spiritual place.

• 50:25Emma Grede?

  That's.

• 50:25Speaker 01

  Like the artists I know, like the stuff that moves us, it didn't come from some strategic formulaic algorithm. It moved you because it came from someone's heart. There's a reason why that song made you cry. There's a reason why you wanted a song played at your wedding. There's a reason for that because it, it brought out real emotion. That didn't come from an algorithm or a formula. And so I think we all know that real art, when you see it, when you feel it. Like if you think about it, like all of our most special moments happen when we close our eyes. When we pray, when we kiss, when we meditate, when we take something in, like all of that happens in that.

• 50:56Emma Grede?

  Am I just hearing that for the first time? I, am I, am I crazy?

• 51:00Speaker 01

  No, you feel it, right?

• 51:01Emma Grede?

  Say it again, all of the most special moments happen when you close your eyes?

• 51:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, like all the most like intimate, like deep felt moments. And, and there's something powerful about that. And I think that that makes us realise that you can't get an algorithm to do that.

• 51:14Emma Grede?

  Right.

• 51:15Speaker 01

  Right? It has to be.

• 51:15Emma Grede?

  Meaning that you've got to close your eyes and go inside you yourself.

• 51:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:19Emma Grede?

  To get to a place of like real truth, real authenticity and to be able to be and to do and be the most successful. Version of yourself, like you believe that that is a part of it.

• 51:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, and we have to teach people to do that more. I think the reason we haven't taught people is because we do live in a society that only cares about results. But by the way, everyone who's got the results isn't happy.

• 51:41Emma Grede?

  Yeah, we do it the wrong way around. That's what happens because it's like you get successful. And then you're like, oh, my goodness, I need to like work on this other side of me because I'm out of balance. I'm out of whack. Where it would be kind of interesting to think like, what would happen if you started that at the beginning? What would happen if you like, you know, did your, you know, your business plan and thought about your launch? And at the same time, we're like, I'm going to balance this with this other stuff that has equal weight and equal importance to make me successful and to look after me while I'm doing it.

• 52:07Speaker 01

  And I think it would slow people down. I mean, there were years in my life where I worked eighteen hour days and weekends and, you know, and work, I work harder today than I did ten years ago. So it's not about hard work and not, I think that has to be there. I think it's the work needs to be infused with a spirit and an energy. That is about wanting to do something good or do something great to help people. I think that's the goal. It's not complicated. I always say to people, if you're building something that you wouldn't let your kid use, don't build it.

• 52:35Emma Grede?

  Don't build it.

• 52:36Speaker 01

  Don't build it. That's the point. It's just, that's the simple test.

• 52:38Emma Grede?

  Wouldn't that just be the, that wouldn't that be the test? Which is crazy because I feel like every single person that I speak to in Silicon Valley ever is like, yeah, but my kids are banned from duh, duh, duh, duh. Like whatever it is that I do and I'm working on, like for a hundred percent.

• 52:51Speaker 01

  And that's the worrying part, right? Because then you're saying, I'm happy to exploit other people's children, but not mine.

• 52:57Emma Grede?

  But not my own.

• 52:58Speaker 01

  And that is.

• 52:59Emma Grede?

  And I have the information upfront and I have the, you know, the education and I can see down the road what's going to happen with this and yet I'm happy to do it.

• 53:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:08Emma Grede?

  Well, that's it. But that's where purpose driven businesses come into play, right? Because at the end of the day, when you're doing something that is inherently good, inherently positive, when you're thinking about, you know, underrepresented communities, underserved communities, when you're actually thinking about the good as the primary force, right? And balancing that with this is a business and we need to be profitable. That changes everything. Like that is, and again, it would be so great if all businesses were like that, but I think it again. And it's just something that we need to speak about more and think about more and infuse as the norm. Because you can be really successful, as you've shown, and yet still have all of these pieces.

• 53:49Speaker 01

  And by the way, and it's really important, no one's doing it perfectly, neither am I. It's a constant balancing act. You're constantly trying to figure it out and figure out, oh, well, where did my intention get messy there? And, oh, maybe I shouldn't have said yes to that.

• 54:03Emma Grede?

  Yeah, totally. I'm glad you still feel like that.

• 54:06Speaker 01

  Oh, no, of course. No, so I was actually gonna say, that is the work.

• 54:09Emma Grede?

  That is it.

• 54:10Speaker 01

  That is the work. The moment you stop questioning, that's when you lost yourself. Like, the moment you stop thinking about ego and envy and greed and pride, that's the day it's taken over your life. So for me, that is the daily work. The daily work is actually checking in with your intentions. And I always talk about it as every day I check in and think, am I planting seeds or weeds? If I'm planting seeds, they're gonna grow beautiful trees, they have beautiful flowers and fruits. If I'm planting weeds, that's gonna tear down everything I create. And that's something I have to do every day. You've got to un-weed your garden weekly, monthly, constantly. You can't just say, I'm gonna do it in three years' time.

• 54:50Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 54:50Speaker 01

  And so I think that's a process, and that's why I have to do it.

• 54:52Emma Grede?

  What's the practice of that for you, though? Because I love that idea of, like, you know, weeding. Because I feel like if you're doing a lot of stuff, if you're trying things, you are going to make mistakes. Like, I make mistakes all the time. And I find it, you know, I'm a pretty easy person in going like, oh, that was me. Like, I made that decision and that was the wrong decision. But it is difficult for some people. So how do you unpick and what's the practice to be so, you know, self-deprecating? And to have that muscle that every week you could go back and be like, that wasn't, that wasn't what I intended?

• 55:26Speaker 01

  I think, I think it is, actually what ends up happening is you make the mistake, you plant a weed, it destroys all the other garden, you go, oh crap. And that's the reality of moving fast. I'm the same as you. I've made so many mistakes in the last 10 years. Because we're moving so fast. It wasn't intentional, it wasn't conscious. You make them because you're moving and you're moving at the speed of light and the momentum's there and all the rest of it. And I think what we don't realise That is the only way to grow.

• 55:49Emma Grede?

  That's the work.

• 55:50Speaker 01

  If you take that out.

• 55:51Emma Grede?

  Yes.

• 55:51Speaker 01

  So you will make mistakes.

• 55:52Emma Grede?

  Yes.

• 55:53Speaker 01

  It's actually looking at those and going, okay, I'm not going to make that twice. Okay, I'm not going to make that three times. I'm going to figure that out.

• 55:58Emma Grede?

  Mm hmm.

• 55:58Speaker 01

  And I think that's what I'd focus on. I think this idea, and that's why I keep saying it. I haven't perfected this balance. I just believe it's needed.

• 56:06Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 56:06Speaker 01

  In the world. And I'm almost, the way we'd call it in our philosophy is you're relishing the battle. It's a battle.

• 56:12Emma Grede?

  Every day.

• 56:13Speaker 01

  It's not.

• 56:14Emma Grede?

  Every day.

• 56:14Speaker 01

  It's not something I fought three years ago and I solved. I battle every day with my ego, with my insecurity, with my envy, with my greed. That's a daily battle.

• 56:23Emma Grede?

  But I love you for saying that because I feel like we look to somebody like you and think you got it all figured out.

• 56:29Speaker 01

  I don't.

• 56:30Emma Grede?

  And the idea that actually you're standing and going, I don't have it all figured out. I'm trying a lot of things and I'm making mistakes because that's what people don't show, right? You're not posting those mistakes, but it's like you are admitting them. You are saying they happen. And in a journey, like again, you say in the last 10 years, you've made a ton of mistakes. I think about that for myself all the time. And in a way, I wish I could sit down and one of the things that I intend to do on this podcast is to be really honest about the things that didn't go well for me. Because it's in those things, and it sounds again, super trite. I made, you know, I had a lot of learnings when I made this mistake. But it's more than learning. It's like, well, I won't do that twice.

• 57:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:09Emma Grede?

  Right? And what was the behaviour in me that led to me doing that thing? And I think once you kind of dig a little bit deeper, I find it's the same things in me that over and over and over again happen, right? Once you spot that behaviour, you're able to, you know, figure it out a little bit more easy. And so for me, it's like, I do want to talk about that stuff because it happens to the best of us.

• 57:31Speaker 01

  Well, I think it happens to anyone who does something for the first time.

• 57:34Emma Grede?

  Yes.

• 57:34Speaker 01

  If you do anything for the first time, start a business, play tennis, raise a child, whatever it is, you're going to make mistakes.

• 57:41Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 57:42Speaker 01

  Because it's the first time you did it. How are you going to get it perfect the first time?

• 57:45Emma Grede?

  There is no way.

• 57:46Speaker 01

  We're living in a world right now where everyone wants everyone to get everything perfect the first time they do it.

• 57:52Emma Grede?

  And it's just not possible.

• 57:54Speaker 01

  It's just not possible.

• 57:54Emma Grede?

  It's just not possible.

• 57:55Speaker 01

  Even when you walked with a baby, you fell over a million times. And that was just life. And so this want for perfection internally or externally, it just doesn't work. And so, no, I'm definitely not. Perfect or haven't got the perfect balance. It is me constantly questioning the balance that allows me to try and hold on to it.

• 58:15Emma Grede?

  Hundred percent.

• 58:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:16Emma Grede?

  And what do you want now? Like, I know that you're about to go on tour.

• 58:19Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 58:19Emma Grede?

  Which I think is so insane and so amazing because you've got this like incredible podcast where seemingly, you know, you're in your comfort zone, you come to your home even. It's so beautiful. It's such a setup. And now you're gonna, and I know it's not the first time you've done it, but that idea of getting on stage in front of thousands and thousands of people completely freaks me out. Like, what makes you wanna do that?

• 58:42Speaker 01

  Do you know what it is? I just miss seeing people.

• 58:45Emma Grede?

  You do?

• 58:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, because I started my, like I said, I started my career in rooms.

• 58:48Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 58:48Speaker 01

  Tiniere than this. And I'd sit with people for hours and hours and hours. And when I'm on the road, I get to look in people's eyes, you get to see people smile, cry, you get to hug. Like, we're going to fifteen cities, fifteen surprise guests. We're gonna do Q and A with the audience. Like, these are people who listen on purpose every day, every week, every month of every year.

• 59:07Emma Grede?

  I love it.

• 59:07Speaker 01

  And people are doing it when they walk their dog or in the kitchen or commuting from work. Imagine we're all gonna be in the same space. I think people are gonna walk out with new boyfriends, girlfriends, marriages.

• 59:17Emma Grede?

  That's what's gonna happen. That is what's going to happen. People are gonna meet each other and they're gonna be like, oh, my goodness, did you listen to this episode? This was my favorite. I love him. It's just magical. I love that you're doing that.

• 59:27Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 59:28Emma Grede?

  When you think about these new types of business ventures for you, like, how do you think about it in the grand sort of sweeter things that you do in the brand, like, world of Jay Shetty? How does it fit into the mix?

• 59:41Speaker 01

  I think of good connection and even good business as what? I heard years ago, this term on a TED Talk, and it was called mass intimacy. It's this idea of how do you reach people at scale?

• 59:53Emma Grede?

  Yep.

• 59:54Speaker 01

  But then have a really deep intimate conversation with one person. And I think any business, product, service, individual, guide, wisdom, teacher, whatever it may be, we benefit when we can reach a lot of people, but then we reach people really deeply. And I think that's why brands do pop-ups, right? It's like, why is a brand doing a pop-up? Like, what's the point of it?

• 1:00:11Emma Grede?

  Quite right.

• 1:00:11Speaker 01

  It's because you wanna meet people in person, the people who actually care about what you do. You wanna give them a hug and you wanna. Look them in the eye and say thank you. And so to me, it's that anything that's successful, powerful in the world has the ability to scale and the ability to go deep. You wanna be mass and you wanna be intimate. And if you can't, and this is what it comes back to, everything we've been talking about, everything has to be opposites.

• 1:00:33Emma Grede?

  Yes.

• 1:00:34Speaker 01

  There has to be strategy and sincerity. There has to be art and there has to be action. It's all about embracing polarities. And if you don't embrace these opposites and you think you have to choose, you actually miss out on an experience. I went on tour two years ago. I did forty cities across the world. I got so much out of that.

• 1:00:53Emma Grede?

  I bet you did.

• 1:00:54Speaker 01

  From the tour that I would never get from staring into a camera.

• 1:00:57Emma Grede?

  Yeah, I can imagine. You must get so much back for it. I feel like you've got so many fans. And when I think about someone whose success is so unbelievably well deserved, I really think about you. I think that everything you're doing is, honestly, I think you're like a one of one. You know, when I think about people who I truly aspire to, creating a lane for themselves, I think about you. And I'm so grateful for the conversation. I think you're amazing. And I wish you even like, if it's possible, even more success than you're already having, because I really, I believe in the good of what you're doing.

• 1:01:34Speaker 01

  Oh, thank you.

• 1:01:35Emma Grede?

  And before I let you go, I have a couple of rapid fire questions that I wanna ask you.

• 1:01:40Speaker 01

  Let's do it.

• 1:01:40Emma Grede?

  Here are the rapid fire questions. All right. What's the first thing you do when you wake up?

• 1:01:45Speaker 01

  The first thing I do is wonder if, what time my wife woke up. Cause she always wakes up earlier than me to meditate. And I was walking to our meditation room going, what time did you wake up? She's like, an hour ago. I'm like.

• 1:01:56Emma Grede?

  How long does she meditate for?

• 1:01:57Speaker 01

  Same. Yeah.

• 1:01:59Emma Grede?

  I'm feeling very competitive over here.

• 1:02:01Speaker 01

  Yeah. That's the first thing I do is think about what time my wife woke up.

• 1:02:04Emma Grede?

  I'm gonna come and hang out at your house. What's the last thing you do before you go to bed?

• 1:02:08Speaker 01

  Tell my wife I love her. Yeah, I love telling her. She's, she's always just like.

• 1:02:12Emma Grede?

  You are literally the cutest couple in the world.

• 1:02:14Speaker 01

  I don't know about that.

• 1:02:15Emma Grede?

  I have, no, I have a theory about you too. I feel like you saw each other and you both looked into each other's eyes and you're like, they're so beautiful. They're so beautiful. He's so beautiful. She's so beautiful. I feel like that's what happened. No, I, I'm.

• 1:02:25Speaker 01

  No, no, no, no.

• 1:02:26Emma Grede?

  She didn't tell you. No.

• 1:02:27Speaker 01

  No, no, that's true story. Yeah, the first time she met me, she was like, oh, whatever.

• 1:02:30Emma Grede?

  Really?

• 1:02:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:02:31Emma Grede?

  Oh, well, she knew to love you.

• 1:02:32Speaker 01

  The moment I saw her, I was, yeah, exactly.

• 1:02:35Emma Grede?

  What are you currently aspiring to in your business life?

• 1:02:38Speaker 01

  Oh, I love that. I'm currently aspiring to study new models of business that haven't even been invented yet. I'm so fascinated by how the models that were successful in the last 25 years, where Facebook, the biggest content company, didn't make content, Uber, the biggest taxi company, didn't own any taxis. Like, that idea was so of the business of last 25 years. I want to know what that next is.

• 1:03:03Emma Grede?

  What is something that you're aspiring for in your personal life?

• 1:03:06Speaker 01

  Oh, I'm aspiring for, hmm, that's a great question. What am I aspiring for right now in my personal life? Tells you how much I think about work, too.

• 1:03:21Speaker 01

  I think it's making sure that the people who are getting older in my life really know how much they're loved. Because that's the reality of love and connection is that at some point, you're gonna have to say goodbye to the people you love.

• 1:03:37Speaker 01

  And as someone who doesn't want to die with any regrets, I'm constantly thinking about how do I make sure that all the people that are aging in my life know how valuable they are, what an impact they had, that I make time for them. It's so easy to not make time for people as they age, or they may be not as fun, or mobile, or active, or whatever it may be. And making time for that and giving energy to that person who gave you so much, that's a big thing I'm aspiring for because, yeah, when you're on a rocket ship, it's hard to be present in that way, especially with someone you don't live with.

• 1:04:12Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:12Speaker 01

  And so I think, yeah, that's probably the thing I'm aspiring for.

• 1:04:15Emma Grede?

  I'm so glad I asked. What's a book that changed your life?

• 1:04:18Speaker 01

  Oh, okay, there's so many.

• 1:04:20Emma Grede?

  I know, I know.

• 1:04:22Speaker 01

  I'm gonna give one that I don't think any guest will ever give, that's why I'll give it. It's the Bhagavad Gita, which is the wisdom book of the East. It's 5,000 years old, 700 verses. But the most important part of it is it's a conversation between God and the most talented archer in the world. So the most talented archer in the world is about to go to battle, but he's doubting himself, he's feeling anxious, he's feeling insecure. His bow slipping from his hand. He doesn't know if he can shoot an arrow in this battle. Because he's confused about whether it should take place. And whether he should be the one fighting. And it's a conversation between God and this archer. And it literally depicts all of the anxiety, the stress, this self doubt that we feel. And the divinity or God is talking directly to the archer in how to rebuild his confidence.

• 1:05:07Speaker 01

  How to find real worth, what it really means to live a life of value and purpose. And it's spectacular and it's on the edge of a battle. Which I think so many people feel like we're at now constantly.

• 1:05:18Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:19Speaker 01

  And God speaking directly to someone who's really talented, really gifted, but has forgotten that they are. And I think that's true for so many of us. So it's my favorite book.

• 1:05:27Emma Grede?

  That's a fantastic answer. And what is something that you valued when you were starting out your career? But that you don't value now?

• 1:05:36Speaker 01

  Wow, that's such a great question. Did I ask you this as well?

• 1:05:40Emma Grede?

  No, don't know.

• 1:05:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's a good question. What did I used to value at the start of my?

• 1:05:44Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:45Speaker 01

  Okay. I used to value people around me that were close to me, really understanding what I was trying to do. And now I'm okay being misunderstood. I'm okay accepting that sometimes I have to do things that people around me don't understand. Because it's really hard for people to understand themselves, let alone understand someone else. And usually when you're doing something new and fresh and different, people won't understand you. And if you do what they want you to do, they'll misunderstand you. If you do what you want to do, they'll misunderstand you. If you do nothing, they'll misunderstand you. If you do something, they'll misunderstand you. So people are going to misunderstand you no matter what you do. So you might as well do something you love.

• 1:06:30Speaker 01

  And I think for me, I used to really value at the beginning of my career that people really understood me and understood my purpose and saw it. And now I'm just like. I've got to see it because no one else can. And I can't for anyone else, even if I love someone really deeply. It's really hard to see and fully understand them because you're the only one who's lived through the struggle, the stress, the pain, the trauma, the moments you were crying. And you can explain that to your best friend and your best friend can empathize.

• 1:06:58Emma Grede?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:06:58Speaker 01

  But they can't really understand it, just as you can't for them.

• 1:07:01Emma Grede?

  True.

• 1:07:01Speaker 01

  So it's too much pressure to put on to people.

• 1:07:03Emma Grede?

  Yeah. And you know, it's that that is such an amazing answer. And I think it's so relevant when, you know, it's like for both of us, right? We moved away from where we're from. We sit in a very different context now to how we grew up. And it is difficult for you to explain that to anyone else. And how could you? How dare you almost in fact, like even think that they would understand and that they could be, you know, beside you and get it and be super, you know, thoughtful about the decisions that you're making and feel the same way that you do. It's just not possible. So I love that advice because I think for anyone who's doing something, you are looking for people to sympathize. You do want the people around you to be like, I'm fully with you. And so often they're like, I'm just not.

• 1:07:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't get it.

• 1:07:49Emma Grede?

  Like, I don't get it. Like, I don't get it. I don't agree with it. And it's, it is too much pressure. So learning to just like, let it go and not be looking for it is very freeing.

• 1:07:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, just don't put pressure on that person and you'll have a better relationship with them and move on with your thing. Yeah, stop, stop trying to be miss, stop trying to be understood.

• 1:08:06Emma Grede?

  I wish that was my last question because that was a really good answer, but we've got one more.

• 1:08:10Speaker 01

  You sorted out in the edit.

• 1:08:11Emma Grede?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:08:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, tweak it in the edit.

• 1:08:13Emma Grede?

  Um, okay, the last question for you is, so what is something that you value now that you didn't back then?

• 1:08:21Speaker 01

  Oh, God.

• 1:08:24Speaker 01

  I don't think I valued how people have such different values. And what I mean by that is when I married my wife, we literally moved to New York three months after we got married because I got a job offer, the job offer of my dreams. And to me, I was like, we're moving to New York. We're in our late twenties, like this is like the coolest thing ever. And for my wife, it was, New York was hell. You know, she wanted to be with her family. And in the beginning, I didn't get that. I was just kind of like, that's cool, but look at this life we're building. And we weren't successful or we didn't have a lot, but it was cool to be in New York in our late twenties. And I think over time, it made me realize just how.

• 1:09:07Speaker 01

  You can't make someone value what you value. You can only respect their values and they can respect yours. And I think over time, I learned to respect that what made my wife special was her relationship with her parents. And that I didn't have to build something to compete with that. I didn't have to win the value war. I had to just let her be that person because that's what makes her beautiful and bubbly and wonderful. Is this amazing relationship we had, she has with her family. And what makes me, who I am, is my purpose and my mission and everything that I'm building. That's what makes me lovable. And so if she also tries to change me, it wouldn't work. And so I think I didn't realize the value of people's values back then.

• 1:09:50Speaker 01

  And now I deeply, deeply understand that you can't change someone's values. You can't make their values your values. You can't even change yours. And it's better to help someone chase their goals and protect their values than it is to try and get them to change over to yours. And so that, that is something that I, I deeply value now. I see the, I see why it's so important to follow their truth and their calling and their value. Because that's what makes them lovable and who they are. If you take that away from them, you wouldn't love them anymore.

• 1:10:20Emma Grede?

  That is like, there's so much truth there. We could just do a whole number of podcasts just on these two questions.

• 1:10:26Speaker 01

  They're really good questions.

• 1:10:28Emma Grede?

  Like, I'm blown away. That's so thoughtful and so, there's so much truth in that. Yeah, I'm, that's, thank you so much for sharing that answer. I'm beside myself with that.

• 1:10:42Speaker 01

  We'll talk about it offline, yeah.

• 1:10:44Emma Grede?

  Oh my God, darling.

• 1:10:45Speaker 01

  You're the best.

• 1:10:45Emma Grede?

  Jay, thank you so much. I love that you came and you did this for me. And I just have to tell you, when, when I texted you, I was like, oh Jay, I'm starting a podcast. And I wondered if you could, you were like, what? Yes, I adore you, like, I'm in, like, tell me where. And I was like.

• 1:11:03Speaker 01

  You're one of the most infectious energy people I've ever met. And we hit it off immediately since day one. So whether I see you at a conference or an event or whatever it is, it's just you, you have the best energy. I, I couldn't not.

• 1:11:16Emma Grede?

  Well, that's, that means a lot. It means, it means so much coming from you, but, um, you know, words, people say a lot of stuff. And I think just the fact that you would, A, you come here, you are just an absolute dream to interview. But it really honestly means the world to me that you would just show up and that you would do it with such ease and such enthusiasm and such thoughtfulness. Like, no one's going to answer that question better than you do.

• 1:11:43Speaker 01

  Anytime, anytime. I love you. You're the best.

• 1:11:45Emma Grede?

  I love seeing you. You too. Thank you, darling.

• 1:11:47Speaker 01

  This is amazing.

• 1:11:47Emma Grede?

  Thank you.

• 1:11:52Emma Grede?

  If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click follow on your favorite listening platform. While you're there, give us a review and a five star rating and share an episode you loved with a friend. We'll be so grateful. Aspire with Emma Grede is presented by Odyssey. I'm your host, Emma Grede. Our executive producers are Corinne, Gillian Fisher, Derek Brown, and me. Our executive producers from Odyssey are Maddie Sprung Kaiser, Leah Reese Dennis, Asha Saluja, and Jenna Weiss-Berman. Justine Dom is our senior producer. Our producer is Kristin Torres. Sound design and engineering by Bill Schultz. Angela Peluso is our booker. Original music by Charles Black. Video production by Evan Cox, Kurt Courtney, Andrew Steele,

• 1:12:34Emma Grede?

  Carlos Delgado, and Arnie Agassi. Social media by Olivia Holman. Special thanks go to Brittany Smith, Sidney Ford, my teams at Jonesworks and WNE, Maura Curran, Josephina Francis, Hillary Schaff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson Rose, Tim Mikell, Sean Cherry, and Lauren Vieira. If you have questions for me, you can DM me at aspirewithemmagreed. Grede is spelt G R E D E. That's aspire, A S P I R E, with Emma Grede. Or you can submit a question to me on my website, emmagreed.me.

• 1:13:12Speaker 04

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