The Founder Playbook: How Michael Rubin Built Fanatics by Betting on Obsession

Emma is joined by the relentless entrepreneur Michael Rubin, founder and CEO of Fanatics for a deep dive into his extraordinary journey from a self-described "god-awful athlete" to one of the most successful business minds in the sports industry. Michael pulls back the curtain on the mindset and drive that fuels his success, revealing how outworking the competition has been a cornerstone of his career. From launching his first business at age 8 to building Fanatics into a global powerhouse, Michael shares how his obsession with business—and his ability to thrive during the toughest times—has shaped his rise. Whether it's pushing through failures or seizing opportunities in the face of adversity, Michael’s relentless work ethic and ability to pivot when needed have been crucial to his journey. He talks about the sacrifices he's made, the lessons he's learned about leadership, and how his obsession with staying ahead of the competition fuels both his personal and professional life. Emma and Michael also explore the importance of being in tune with your audience, identifying untapped markets, and building a team of game-changers who share your vision.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:09Emma Grede?

  Welcome to the Aspire Podcast with me, Emma Grede. If you're serious about doing something big, today's episode is so for you. Whether you're launching a brand or scaling a company, or just dreaming about your first move, my guest today is someone who's done all of it, over and over again. He's not just a founder, but he's a builder, a visionary, and a complete master of culture, and one of the most relentless entrepreneurs that I know. We also happen to be in business together on my new sports apparel brand with Kristi Juszczyk, Offseason. I'm talking about the one and only Michael Rubin. Michael started his first business at just eight years old, and since then, he's built and sold companies worth billions of dollars. He's now the founder and CEO of Fanatics, who are a global digital

• 0:54Emma Grede?

  sports platform valued at over $25 billion. What makes Michael different is his ability to spot opportunity where others don't, to move fast and to build with precision at massive scale. Welcome to the show, Michael.

• 1:12Speaker 01

  Greetings from Breeze Airways, your hometown carrier for non-stop flights from Richmond to Sarasota, Bradenton, and more. Your getaway to Florida's west coast is closer than you think. Breeze makes it easy to snag a getaway with non-stop flights, flexible change policies, and a seriously nice onboard experience. Enjoy premium seating with Breeze Ascent, plus high-speed Wi-Fi and tasty snacks. Book today at flybreeze.com. Breeze Airways, seriously nice. In partnership with Visit Sarasota.

• 1:46Emma Grede?

  I am so happy to have you on the Aspire Podcast. I cannot tell you how happy I am when I text you the immediate, unsurprising, but immediate yes that came back, just like, made me die, like totally die.

• 1:59Speaker 02

  Well, first of all, I'm honoured to be here with you, number one. Number two, you get the fastest yes of anybody because I have so much respect for you. You're a beast, and I like to learn from you. So I'm looking forward to having fun today.

• 2:10Emma Grede?

  Honestly, what I really want to get out of today, and I think that so many of the people that will be listening, just wanna understand how you've been successful. And what I love about you is that you talk like no BS, you're extremely truthful, extremely transparent. And I think in this time where it feels like people are so careful and so deliberate about what they say, it's really refreshing to hear from someone like you.

• 2:34Speaker 02

  You know, first of all, I think authenticity is so important. I think you have to be yourself. And I think I couldn't be anything other than that because people would see through it and say, he's full of shit. So, you know, for me, it's just like always telling you what I think, how I feel, being real about it. I think people then trust you and a lot of good things happen.

• 2:51Emma Grede?

  No, that's true. And what's really interesting is how that extends to your customers as well. I think that what you do feels so authentic to you. But I wanna kind of get into a bit of your origin story and understand that, you know, because and I'm sure you've told this so many times.

• 3:06Speaker 02

  One or two times in my life.

• 3:08Emma Grede?

  I don't wanna belabor the point, but I do wanna understand a little bit. You grew up in Philadelphia. It feels like you were just a born hustler, but you have been in business for a very long time and since you were a kid, essentially.

• 3:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, look, I really believe people gravitate to what they do best at. And I think a lot of people think I'm being self-deprecating when I say like, I really was an awful student. Like, I had every learning disability you could possibly have. My mom was a psychiatrist, dad was a veterinarian. So they were like, used to like sophisticated, smart people. And I just came out of the womb different. So I really struggled in school, always, you know, couldn't speak well, couldn't read well, you know, struggled with my grades. And so for that reason, I hated school. Like, I hate, I didn't dislike it, I hated it. And by the way, as bad as students I was, I was a pretty shitty athlete too. Like, I just, you know, I didn't have good hand-eye coordination. I just wasn't what I was

• 4:04Speaker 02

  good at. So at a really young age, I loved business. Like, I loved it with every bit of my heart. And so I remember, you know, I can go back to when I was eight years old. I probably had four or five different jobs. I mean, I was, you know, buying seeds like an Catalog and selling them door to door. When it would snow in Philadelphia, I would hire five, six kids to work for me. And I would sell the snow shoveling for twenty bucks a drive. And then, you know, pay the guys to work for me. And I was, you know, buying and selling trading cards and I was making stationery on the computer. So I was good at that. So I gravitate to what I was good at. And, you know, for me, I absolutely loved it.

• 4:40Emma Grede?

  And when you were that young, like when you're eight years old, what was the thrill for you then? Because it's obviously so different when, you know, you don't, you don't have bills to pay. You don't have anything. What was the thrill of actually going out and making those like, you know, partnerships of like people in your neighborhood?

• 4:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think the biggest thrill was being good at something. It was like, you know, if you're not a good student, you know, if you're not a good athlete, you know, that might not make you feel good. But like, if you're really good in business and you see you have that superpower even at a really young age, um, it makes you feel good. And so I've worked nonstop since I've been eight years old. And I felt like it's the greatest honor in the world. Even today, people say to me, like, people, like, I've always had an incredible work ethic. It's one of my best skills. But like, I'm working the hardest I've ever worked and I love it. It doesn't feel like work. It's like, I'm honored to get to learn and grow every single day. And I'm just picking up tidbits in every conversation I have. So it's like, you know, I go back to when I was eight years old and just know it felt good to get to do what I do.

• 5:40Speaker 02

  And it doesn't feel any different today. It just feels great.

• 5:42Emma Grede?

  I love that you say you actually work harder now. So at this level of success, when you have a company that's worth twenty five billion dollars, you think you're working harder than you did in your, you know, in your twenties and your thirties and your early forties, when you were actually like building.

• 5:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, even though, you know, we're, you know, our business would be over nine billion dollars this year, over eleven billion dollars in revenue next year. We have twenty two thousand people. I feel like a startup and I, and I want to always have that mentality. One of the things I hate-

• 6:08Emma Grede?

  You feel like a startup with a twenty five billion dollar valuation.

• 6:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, I feel like a startup. I feel like we're just getting going. And, and look, here's the reality.

• 6:16Emma Grede?

  That's humble.

• 6:16Speaker 02

  Um, I have so much fear about, and fear in a good way, like fear that drives me about what are all the things we're not doing right? And by the way, when I go through our business, there's a lot of things we do well and there's a lot of things we don't do well. I, I, I don't want to talk about what we do good. I want to talk about what we don't do well so we can make it better. And so, um, you know, I think you have to have that startup mentality, that entrepreneur's mentality that's always driving. I think you lose your edge and then, quite frankly, I think somebody takes you out and it's over.

• 6:43Emma Grede?

  So I mean, I would imagine that keeping that mentality, that that startup mentality in that kind of drive, I get that you can have that as the founder, but how does that actually manifest within the company? How do you make everybody else? Because when you have a company with that, you know, that many people, what, twenty some, twenty thousand?

• 6:59Speaker 02

  Twenty two thousand people.

• 7:00Emma Grede?

  Twenty two thousand people. So I get it, but you're gonna have an executive leadership team and senior leaders. How do you create the conditions and the environment for them to all feel like that too?

• 7:12Speaker 02

  Yeah. So first, our company is not for everyone. Like, we tell people, you know, this is an intense company, you know, we're gonna keep pushing, you know, it may not be for you.

• 7:21Emma Grede?

  When do you tell them that, like, in the interview?

• 7:23Speaker 02

  Definitely. And we, but by the way, when I go to hire people at my level or level down, I try to scare people away to see what they're made of. I know you know exactly what I'm talking about. Like, you know, are they gonna think, you know, you're crazy when you call them at six o'clock in the morning, or, you know, eleven o'clock in the night, or when they get email, I don't call people in the middle of the night, but I send emails in the middle of the night. Are they gonna think that's crazy? They're gonna like that? Is that gonna drive them? Are we gonna like inspire people together? They're gonna not be made for it. And so, you know, to me, I think it starts with leadership. Leadership is really important. You've got to have a vision and get people to buy into your vision. Communication is so important. Like, it's not like we have fifty people. When you have twenty two thousand people, you have to communicate and get your message out to everybody. Make sure you've got people aligned and working together. But I think that's where a lot of

• 8:08Speaker 02

  big companies, you know, they they get off track. They're more concerned with like, the different corporate bullshit that you're supposed to have in a company of like, you know, the memos from the different departments that tell you the things you want to know. I'm like, I don't even read any of that shit from us. Like, I'm focused on how do we grow our business? How do we keep pushing? And if you really think about it, why am I working the hardest I've ever worked? You know, we were only in the business that we call Fanatics Commerce. That's the Fangear business. That's where I started. We were only in that business till two thousand and twenty. Now we have three businesses. We have the Fangear business, which is called Fanatics Commerce. We have the Collectibles business, which is primarily trading cards. And we have the betting and gaming business. We only launched the betting and gaming business. Our first dollar of revenue was last year. This year we'd be

• 8:51Speaker 02

  close to a billion dollars in revenue, year two, okay?

• 8:54Emma Grede?

  Year two.

• 8:55Speaker 02

  Our Collectibles business.

• 8:57Emma Grede?

  Is it profitable?

• 8:58Speaker 02

  Uh, gaming business is not profitable. We're investing aggressively.

• 9:01Emma Grede?

  It's alright, because I know you're profitable and then the other two.

• 9:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, we're high, you know, that, look, the collectibles and trading card business are a very good business. Commerce business is a, is a big business that, that's grown its profitability. But, you know, for us, like, take, to think about the, the trading card and collectibles business. That idea popped in my brain the day before Thanksgiving of two thousand twenty. That business next year will be a three billion dollar business.

• 9:23Emma Grede?

  That's crazy.

• 9:24Speaker 02

  So it shows you when you get something right, how quickly you can do it. But we've really gone from one business to three businesses. And then how do you bring it all together for the fan? And so that takes, you have to be on top of it. Like, one of the things that we don't probably talk enough about. I think one of the key jobs of a leader is to stop dumb shit from happening. Okay? And you know I'm right when I say this. Like, how many times you're like, what the fuck? Like, why is someone thinking this? Why is someone doing that? So as a leader, you need to be on top of your business. You need to make sure you're, you're working with your, your, your team, you're paying attention to what's going on. And sometimes you just need to stop dumb things from happening. So it's like, one, you need to lead the organization. You need to have the right vision, get everyone bought in.

• 10:05Speaker 02

  But then when you're growing very fast, when you go from one business to three businesses, you go from eight thousand people to twenty two thousand people. Like, you know, kind of crazy shit can happen. So you gotta be on your business to stop that from happening. So there's so much to do on any given day for what we do.

• 10:18Emma Grede?

  I love the way that you talk about that, actually, like, stopping dumb shit from happening. Because I feel like as a leader, and you spoke about it as well, like, this idea of being this excellent communicator, right? My job is to paint the vision, make sure everybody understands what are the three most important things that we're doing? And how we all collectively go in towards those things. And that takes you being a really amazing communicator, being an excellent, like, almost like a salesperson to your own organization.

• 10:45Speaker 02

  You are.

• 10:46Emma Grede?

  I know what, like, my strengths are, is that I can tell everybody, like, hey, guys, we're going this way. This is how we're gonna get there. All come with me. When you think about your strengths as a leader and what's got you ultimately to where you are today with really, I mean, quite unbelievable success. And I, I really want to talk about what's happened to you earlier in your career to get to where you are. But what do you think the leadership qualities are that have got you to where you are today?

• 11:10Speaker 02

  Well, I think I have some really good ones. I also think I have some bad ones as well.

• 11:13Emma Grede?

  Of course, we all do.

• 11:14Speaker 02

  Yeah. So I think the first thing is you do need to have, like, one of the things I think I'm pretty good at. Is coming up with a big idea and then sizing it up like you need something that's good for the consumer in our case, good for the fan, but also something that's a good business. So I'm pretty good at figuring out, is this a big and good idea and is it also a good business? A lot of people come up with great ideas, but they're bad businesses. Yeah, totally. Okay. And by the way, you and I've seen these things before, you know, somebody they have a great idea. It seems like it's a great thing, but actually it's not a good business. So I'm pretty good at first having the common sense to figure that out. I think we go back to like as a founder, a CEO, you do need to be a really good communicator to let people know, you know, kind of what are we doing? What are we going after? Um,

• 11:56Speaker 02

  bringing teams together is really important. That's something I've got a lot better over the last 10 years because as a decent sized company now, like you need the greatest people in the world to do what we do. And if you don't, you absolutely fail. So I'm unrelenting from that perspective. Like when I think someone can make a difference to our company, I'll fly anywhere in the world to recruit them. The amount of people have said to me like, hey, Michael, like, hey, you know, I made so much money. I'm not into doing this. I don't want to do this. I'm like, watch this. Yeah. I'll get on a plane. I'll go see them. I'll convince them why this is a great idea. And before you know it, we're building together. So, you know, unfortunately, a lot of the people that are my senior leaders, they've been really successful in their business career and financially before they joined me, they didn't need to do this. They bought

• 12:41Speaker 02

  into the vision, the idea of what they want to do together with us. And so I think being able to sell that vision, be able to get somebody on board is so important. But if you don't get the right people at the top, you have no shot. So when you look at your team, if you don't have, you know, your direct reports, your key people that are really A's, then you're dead. Dead. Because A's don't go to work for B's. Okay. Never gonna happen. An A person is never going to go to work for B. And if A person goes to work for B, they're going to move on. Okay? Pretty quickly. So you need A's, A's in the top. I think, um, When shit's not working, I know how to rip the Band-Aid off. Like, I am not scared about that.

• 13:16Emma Grede?

  Are you quick with that? You're like?

• 13:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, like, I will throw shit against the wall. But when it doesn't work, like, fuck it, move on. Like, I don't care at all. And so I think part of being, you know, having had so many failures in my life, having learned from so many of those failures, it gives me great confidence to go for things and, you know, not have any fear about if it doesn't work, we're just gonna rip the Band-Aid off. I mean, think about what we've done in the past four years. We were only in the, you know, Fangear business, which now is, you know, this year it's about a seven billion dollar business. And we started the collectibles business. We started the gaming business. Within the collectibles business, we started a live commerce platform, a marketplace. We started Fanatics Events business. We started, but by the way, I started an NFT business.

• 14:01Speaker 02

  Four months into that, I was like, this isn't a real business, it's a bullshit business. And I knew, okay, we're getting out of it. I got the investors the money back. I'm like, I'm moving on.

• 14:10Emma Grede?

  But I love that you would do that within four months, right? Because in that moment, like, what was this, just after COVID, we were in NFT madness. I wonder, like, because you've had so much success, have the failures become easier to deal with? Do you just fail less now? Because I know earlier in your career, you really, I mean, you have come really close to the line with a couple of businesses, right? It's like, it's not all been like billions and billions of dollars and you making great decisions all over the show.

• 14:38Speaker 02

  I've seen death in its eyes.

• 14:40Emma Grede?

  Death in its eyes.

• 14:41Speaker 02

  So many times.

• 14:42Emma Grede?

  I'm sorry.

• 14:43Speaker 02

  I gotta tell you something, that's fun.

• 14:44Emma Grede?

  Oh, stop it.

• 14:45Speaker 02

  It's fun.

• 14:46Emma Grede?

  Wait a minute, you are gonna seriously sit here and tell me that when, when that's happening, did you, I mean, when you say, I saw death in its eyes, did that mean like everything's on the line for you? Like, your home's on the line? Or is it like, you're just?

• 14:58Speaker 02

  Many times.

• 14:59Emma Grede?

  No. How is that fun? That can't be fun.

• 15:01Speaker 02

  It's fun. It's fun. It's like, cause I remember even recently, the last time that I really thought I was done was 2009, when the middle of the financial crisis. My stock in my company had been worth $250 million. It went down by 90%.

• 15:18Emma Grede?

  Oh. So you're sitting there with like $25 million.

• 15:22Speaker 02

  In stock, which wasn't sellable, by the way, because the market, okay?

• 15:25Emma Grede?

  It crashed.

• 15:25Speaker 02

  And then I had maybe my total net worth in 2009. Was ten million dollars outside of the twenty five million dollars stock I had. And by the way, I probably had fifteen million dollars in real estate. So I had a negative net worth, okay? I remember coming home, I was calm as a cucumber.

• 15:40Emma Grede?

  Get out of it. Are you serious?

• 15:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, cuz you know what?

• 15:43Emma Grede?

  But what is it? Where? Okay, so tell me.

• 15:45Speaker 02

  Cuz I wasn't scared of failing. Here's what I knew. If I fell apart and it was all over, I would just do it again. And it would be fun.

• 15:52Emma Grede?

  First of all, I have, I have absolutely no doubt. But where does it come from in you that you could have, you could be right on the brink like that? Right? If you trace it back and think, okay, I could build it all again. I get it because you've shown that you can do it over and over again. And you can find these pockets of billion dollar businesses seemingly everywhere. But where do you get that from? What in your life has signaled to you that you can just bounce back?

• 16:17Speaker 02

  I think ever since I was a little kid, I have not had fear in business. I've just always been fearless like that. And so it doesn't even seem often. And I think a lot of entrepreneurs think that way. I mean, it doesn't, you know, no matter what you tell me, I'm like, okay, how do we deal with it? Because you want to keep everyone calm, cool and collected all the time. Think about Tom Brady when he was down twenty eight three against the Atlanta Falcons. Do you think he was in there saying like, I'm dejected, I'm quitting? It's just like, fuck that, I'm gonna figure out.

• 16:48Emma Grede?

  Is that what you think about in those moments? Or you're just like, you go into yourself?

• 16:52Speaker 02

  It's when I work the absolute hardest is like, that's when you need to step up. And, you know, when the game's on the line, when you're losing, that's when you have to work the smartest and the hardest. And I, I always work hard, but that's when like, nothing's getting in the way. It's like you have tunnel vision.

• 17:06Emma Grede?

  So what do you do in that moment? Your stock is worth almost nothing. You owe more than you're actually worth. You're sitting there with a company that's been essentially completely devalued by the crash. Then what goes through your head? Like, what do you do next?

• 17:19Speaker 02

  So I owed JP Morgan fifty million dollars from two thousand eight. I kept paying them back and I got it down to three million dollars. I couldn't get the money like I had called friends, no one like I could.

• 17:32Emma Grede?

  No one's coming out.

• 17:33Speaker 02

  Two thousand nine, nobody's coming out.

• 17:35Emma Grede?

  Sorry, mate, I'm broke.

• 17:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I had one fund that I'd invested in. I was his first investor, which was worth like maybe five million dollars. And I kept calling the guy, asking them for the money back. I probably called the guy fifty times to get the money back. He's like, Michael, if I give you your money back, I'm gonna have to give every investor money back. And I can't do that or I'll go out of business. And literally like on the fifty first time when I called this guy, I'm like, man, like I'm gonna lose my company. I'm gonna go bankrupt. I need this fucking money. He's like, I'll give it to you if you stop calling me. I like annoyed the guy so bad. He gave me my investment back at what it was worth then. And that saved me from being marched out of the company. By the way, eighteen months later, eBay bought that company for two point four billion dollars.

• 18:19Speaker 02

  Eighteen months later, not five years later, not ten years later, eighteen months later. And I'm telling you, you can think I'm like crazy. I enjoyed the experience of thinking that I was gonna be pushed out of my company. I was gonna be fall apart because it was like an adventure to go on. I mean, why do I like roller coasters? Like I like, like I still today at fifty two years old, like going on a roller coaster, you know, with my friends, with my kid, because it's the adventure's fun.

• 18:47Emma Grede?

  You're just made of something different, but the resiliency to actually call someone fifty odd times is enough for me. I mean.

• 18:53Speaker 02

  But it doesn't bother me.

• 18:54Emma Grede?

  And there's no embarrassment there. There's nothing in you.

• 18:56Speaker 02

  I have no shame.

• 18:56Emma Grede?

  You're like zero. I just wanna go back because obviously to sell a company for two point four billion dollars, eighteen months after it was essentially worthless. This is GSI, right? GSI Commerce. So but you held on to a piece of that company that eventually then becomes Fanatics. So did you have, first of all, how did you manage to extract the most? Like, I guess the most valuable part of the, you know, company out? Because that feels like unbelievable that you could even do that. And did you have a vision for Fanatics at that? Point or are you just like, I I just wanna understand how that comes together because to have a sale like that, we're going, what, how many years ago?

• 19:35Speaker 02

  Two thousand eleven.

• 19:36Emma Grede?

  Yeah, so it's like, it's a long time ago. Two point four billion dollars is a shit ton of money. So I just wanna understand, how do you manage to get away with the bit that ends up being twenty five, worth twenty five billion dollars?

• 19:48Speaker 02

  Well, two things. It would be wrong for me to not say, when I sold the company to eBay for two point four billion dollars. I think I had screwed up a lot of pieces of the business and I'd actually been a better CEO then. I think the company could have been worth a hundred billion. Like, we, if you think about, yeah, you think about what we built. We built the, you know, one of the first e-commerce technology engines. Think about what Shopify is worth today. We built an incredible email platform. Think about what, you know, Exact Target was bought by Salesforce. So if you go through each of the pieces of what I built, you know, I didn't do a great job. So I actually think I failed up by selling it for two point four billion dollars. But I think you're actually giving way too much credit to me.

• 20:28Speaker 02

  In two thousand eleven, FedEx was nothing, okay? It was a completely undifferentiated e-commerce site of licensed sports merchandise. And eBay didn't want it because they're like, look, we don't wanna be an inventory owned business. It wasn't a good business. It was nothing business. When I bought it and it's the only thing I focused on, that allowed us to think about how to really build a strategy. So the only thing I really thought when I bought the business, I had one giant fear, which is this little company in Seattle called Amazon. Have you heard of them? You've heard of them? Yeah, Amazon. I thought if I didn't completely differentiate ourselves against Amazon, we would be dead. So it was really when I bought it was like, how do I differentiate the business?

• 21:08Speaker 02

  And then the strategies kind of evolved as we've gone. So, so yes, I know we had to be highly differentiated or we wouldn't be in business. Cause I watched what Amazon did to Toys R Us and Sports Authority. All these other retailers we worked with. So that fear was very helpful. But I think the reality is, um, no, I didn't know what I was gonna do with the business. I bought it and just like, it was just that natural compass, like I'll figure it out.

• 21:29Emma Grede?

  But it's so interesting to me that you had this thing and you were going to figure it out. And because to me, I look at Fanatics as such a differentiator in the marketplace, right? You own your space. You own the relationship with sports fans across all of the leagues and their purchases bar none. It's not like you have like so much competition. It's like Fanatics, Fanatics, Fanatics. And indeed, when I, you know, was partnering with Kristin Juszczyk and we were going to start off season, all roads led back to Fanatics. If you want to be in the, you know, team sports business, if you want to sign with a league, you have to come back to you guys. And so I'm so interested in how you've been able to ring fence this incredible company

• 22:12Emma Grede?

  and you've been able to keep everybody else out when seemingly it doesn't feel like it was this big strategic part of your plan. It was like essentially what you were left with and you had to focus on.

• 22:21Speaker 02

  Yeah. So first, I don't think what you're saying is accurate at all.

• 22:26Emma Grede?

  Oh, good. All right. Tell me.

• 22:27Speaker 02

  Like, I feel like.

• 22:28Emma Grede?

  Because you feel like you're constantly under attack.

• 22:30Speaker 02

  In our entire business, across the board, collectibles business, trading cards, sports betting, merchandise, there's tons of competition. But our job.

• 22:40Emma Grede?

  But you're number one.

• 22:40Speaker 02

  We are number one.

• 22:41Emma Grede?

  You're number one. You're the market leader.

• 22:43Speaker 02

  But I gotta tell you something. Every day, everyone's coming to kill number one.

• 22:46Emma Grede?

  Well, listen, that's just your mentality. Like, that's unbelievable.

• 22:49Speaker 02

  That's not my mentality. That's the truth. Okay. And the second I get confident is when it's over. Um, like, I really feel like the second, like, the second you're company.

• 22:57Emma Grede?

  That's why you're so successful.

• 22:59Speaker 02

  They, they kill you. And so I feel like I want to run this business like we're a startup. Like, I'm only looking and saying, what are all the things we're doing wrong? I gotta tell you something. In each business, we have things we're great at, we have things we suck at. We have so many things we need to do to be better. We think, you know, our biggest thing we need to do is keep growing the categories that we're in, keep innovating. Let's take the example of the business that you and I are partners in. Okay, talk about offseason, talk about Kristen. Kristen reached out to our company for years and she couldn't get anyone to kind of respond to her, give her the love because we acted like a big company, okay? Then one day she did something, she put, you know, she dressed Taylor Swift, I saw it all over. I started following her. Hi. No, I started following her back. I'm like, wow, like I love what she's about. I love this.

• 23:42Speaker 02

  And then small world, I find out that she's partnering with you. And by the way, at that point, I had to chase her and chase you to say, let's partner together. That didn't bother me. I didn't, I didn't mind saying, hey. Quite the opposite, right? You were like, what can I do for you guys? How do we partner together? How do we do something great for sports fans? So like, you know, a lot of people would say like, is the CEO of a 22,000 person, you know, 11 billion dollar revenue company next year gonna chase? That is literally what we said. And, and, and you know, I was like, I loved it because I had so much respect for her vision, so much respect for you. I'm like, these guys are killers. Like what could the three of us do together? And what could we do for sports fans? So the second you get comfortable and think like, look at like all the changes that are happening

• 24:24Speaker 02

  in the apparel and footwear business today, and you say like, nothing's forever. And, and you know what? We have to keep figuring out how to do what we do better. And there's so much that we can be better at. And so, you know, one of the mistakes I think I made, you know, in the first decade of the business, we were so worried about competition. We weren't focused enough on how's everything we do gonna make it better for the fan. And now, like, we actually, we had, I'll tell you, talk about turning a failure into a success. We had, obviously, it's well known at this point, we had, we had a pretty, you know, tough experience in baseball last year with the jersey. And you know, as everyone knows, we're partners with, with Nike, we're partners with MLB. We make the jerseys together and, you know, everyone in the desire to innovate, uh, want to kind of change the baseball jersey.

• 25:09Speaker 02

  And it's not what fans wanted. And during that period of time, and by the way, we got, you know, Fanatics took the brunt of most of the, and there was a lot of consumer noise, you know, hey. I remember it, yeah. These pants are C3, these jerseys suck, this, that. And what did we do? Number one, we listened and we revert, we reverted back together with Nike, baseball and ourselves. We got to revert back to what fans loved. Number two, how do I use that to make my company better? And literally, we'd been talking about brand purpose for the last year. And I was like, what is this brand purpose bullshit? Like, is this just like, you know, consultant noise? And then it hit us, it's like, we need to relentlessly enhance the fan experience in everything we do. And if you ask us, when you go to do things, and we do a lot of things, is this going to relentlessly enhance the fan experience? If the answer is no, don't do it.

• 25:55Speaker 02

  Well, I could look back to a bunch of things we did in the past where it didn't relentlessly enhance the fan experience. And now we're going back and we're saying, were we questioning everything we've ever done to say, how do we be better?

• 26:05Emma Grede?

  So you feel like everything is anchoring back into that brand purpose?

• 26:08Speaker 02

  Everything has to go into that brand purpose of relentlessly enhancing the fan experience. When we started the sports betting business, we said, hey, if we give you back money in every bet that you make, you can use anywhere in our platform. The other thing we do is players get injured in sports all the time. If a player gets injured in the first quarter of a game, we cancel that bet. We're the only person that does this. So what are people saying? Fanatics is the most rewarding sports book, and by the way, they're the fairest sports book. Why, by the way, we've picked up, as of this month, I just saw this morning, we have about seven, seven and a half percent of the market. We've been live for two years.

• 26:38Emma Grede?

  Wow.

• 26:39Speaker 02

  Okay. And we're now the distant third, but we're the third biggest online sports betting platform. From people telling me two years ago, I had no chance. Now, talk about sports betting. We made a gamble, my biggest gamble ever. I had no idea whether it would work or not, still not a hundred percent sure it's going to work or not. I said to people, hey, I'm making a billion after two billion dollar gamble. I think I'm going to be right, but I don't know. But you have to have the confidence to say, is this a big enough business I want to go after? And am I comfortable with what happens if it doesn't work? And so I know I'm a little all over the place in this answer.

• 27:07Emma Grede?

  No, but you're not.

• 27:08Speaker 02

  I'm kind of walking you through how my brain thinks.

• 27:10Emma Grede?

  But I think it's so interesting to think how your brain thinks, because there'll be so many people listening to this podcast who want to start a business or have started a business. And your mentality is what makes you so interesting. It's your approach and your, like, the idea, like, it kind of makes me laugh that you, you still feel like you're being constantly chased. And I get it for you. I get, listen, I believe you, you're being constantly chased. But I think it's really interesting that you, you've orientated all of these businesses around this mission. And when you're starting out, do you think it's really important for young people or for people that are just like getting into something? Is it important to orientate yourself around a mission? Because I feel like we hear so much about purpose, about mission, about purpose driven companies, like,

• 27:54Emma Grede?

  and, and what does that even, what does that even mean when you're beginning?

• 27:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I would say if I had the chance to start over again in two thousand and eleven with Fanatics, I wish I had that brand purpose then.

• 28:06Emma Grede?

  Right.

• 28:06Speaker 02

  Because I think we'd be a better company today.

• 28:08Emma Grede?

  Fair enough.

• 28:09Speaker 02

  I think in our online sports betting, I gaming business, we started with that mission. In the collectibles business, we started with that mission. In the fan group business, we started in two thousand and eleven, we didn't have that mission. And I think now that we have that mission of everything we do has to relentlessly enhance the fan experience. We keep going back and saying, well, what doesn't and how do we change it? And so I think that's the fun part of building a business. Like, let me ask you a question. Skims is roughly how big today?

• 28:35Emma Grede?

  It's big.

• 28:36Speaker 02

  Okay, it's big. How many people, how many people didn't care about you five years ago and now suddenly they want to kill you?

• 28:41Emma Grede?

  Oh, a lot.

• 28:42Speaker 02

  Right. Right now, when we're doing this, this podcast together, you got people out there, look at it. What's Emma doing? What Jen's doing? You know, what's Kim doing? What are you guys doing? How do we kill these guys? Because you guys are winning.

• 28:54Emma Grede?

  Hundred percent.

• 28:55Speaker 02

  That's you're lucky to be in that position. But if you don't stay on your A game, you're going to be dead.

• 28:59Emma Grede?

  And how much do you look at the competition? Because I am always looking at the competition.

• 29:03Speaker 02

  I look at everything. And let me tell you something. When I see something I like, I copy it as well. Okay, I'm, I'm proud of that.

• 29:09Emma Grede?

  I'm so happy that you are honest about that.

• 29:11Speaker 02

  When I see a great feature.

• 29:12Emma Grede?

  You're like, oh, I'm getting it.

• 29:14Speaker 02

  Fucking do that.

• 29:15Emma Grede?

  Do you think everyone should do that? Because I don't think many people are honest about that, right?

• 29:18Speaker 02

  Then they're dumb.

• 29:19Emma Grede?

  The entire fashion business works on the premise. Everybody cross shops, everybody's brand, everybody looks at everything that's happening. And yet we all pretend that we don't. So I'm so interested in you just going, you see a feature on someone's website, you're like, I'm putting that in tomorrow.

• 29:33Speaker 02

  I, I pay attention to everything. I, I look like, I look at social media for one reason. So I see what's going on. Like, I look, I follow every one of my competitors. I follow everyone who's interesting. I follow everyone I can learn from. And I'm sending stuff to people. I probably send twenty or thirty posts of different shit to, to, you know, people who I work with.

• 29:54Emma Grede?

  Yes.

• 29:54Speaker 02

  Every single day. So that, that's how we learn. That's like, if you don't do that, you're dead. Now, that doesn't mean like, if someone's got something really original and apparel in it, like they're known to own it. I may not want to.

• 30:05Emma Grede?

  Of course.

• 30:06Speaker 02

  I may not want to copy that. But let me just take like, we're in the business, like our original business. Of the Fangear that we sell, we sell more than a hundred million units of Fangear this year. Okay. If we see something great in another business, we're absolutely going to find a way to bring that to our sports fans. Okay. And one of the things that's interesting about the Fangear business, what we were really good at was servicing the average sports fan. Why did I call Kristen so many times? Why did I call you so many times? Because you were doing something different. You were saying, how do I cover that fashion-forward, higher-end sports fan that I knew we weren't doing a good enough job with? Why did we start bringing in Lululemon merchandise in hockey? Because we knew our fans wanted that merchandise. Why are we expanding with Nike and so many products that we didn't carry before that

• 30:51Speaker 02

  we're not carrying today? You know, we keep figuring out, how can we do things better for the sports fans? So I think if you don't pay attention closely to your competition, you're dead. I think when your competition does something good, in a lot of cases, don't be proud. Like, I learn from my competition all the time.

• 31:08Emma Grede?

  Yeah, just get in there and do what they're doing and try and make it better.

• 31:15Emma Grede?

  We spend a lot of time thinking about how to get more value out of the things we buy, but one of the biggest payments most people make every month is for housing. And historically, that's been left out of the rewards conversation. That's why Bilt is such an interesting concept. As a Bilt member, you can earn points on your housing payments, whether you rent or own, and those points can be redeemed towards things like flights, hotels, Lyft rides, Amazon.com purchases, and even future housing payments. And the membership goes beyond your housing payments. You can link any credit card or debit card to the Bilt app and earn points on eligible purchases at participating restaurants and other businesses in your neighborhood. The app also has a neighborhood concierge that can help you book a fitness class, make

• 31:59Emma Grede?

  a dinner reservation, or schedule a Lyft while automatically applying your member benefits. Download the Bilt app and join the membership for where you live at joinbilt.com/emma. That's J-O-I-N-B-I-L-T dot com slash Emma. Use our link so they know we sent you.

• 32:19Speaker 03

  Hi, everyone. This is Kara Swisher.

• 32:21Speaker 04

  And I'm Scott Galloway.

• 32:22Speaker 03

  And we want to tell you about Pivot, our twice-weekly podcast.

• 32:25Speaker 04

  That's right, Kara. What a thrill. It's a chance for us to break down all the big things happening in tech, business, and politics.

• 32:32Speaker 03

  Yes, and I keep you in check so people can make it through each episode, whether it's digging into constant changes in the world of AI and social media, or trying to keep up with whatever the fuck Elon is doing. We're here to give you our take on all of that.

• 32:43Speaker 04

  Every Tuesday and Friday morning, we drop a new episode about some of the major stories of the moment.

• 32:49Speaker 03

  And Scott is a prediction machine, gazing into his crystal ball, to tell you about where it's all heading.

• 32:54Speaker 04

  That's right.

• 32:55Speaker 03

  So if that sounds like a good time for you, especially Mr. "That's right," you can follow us on your favorite podcast app to get new episodes every week.

• 33:04Speaker 04

  Boom.

• 33:12Emma Grede?

  What else is it about you that makes you successful?

• 33:16Speaker 02

  Look, different people can be successful. Like, I know so many, like, I'm always studying people. You'd see somebody who's, like, wicked smart, but they don't have great people skills. I'm the opposite, right? I'm honestly not that smart. I mean, people think, again, oh, he's being self-deprecating. I got a 780 combined on my SATs.

• 33:34Emma Grede?

  I think that's really bad, isn't it? I mean, I'm English, so...

• 33:36Speaker 02

  It's really, let me tell you, it's really bad.

• 33:40Emma Grede?

  It's not the score from the movies.

• 33:41Speaker 02

  Most people who listen to this, I bet you 80, 90% of people got better than a 780 on their combined SATs.

• 33:47Emma Grede?

  Okay, it's bad.

• 33:47Speaker 02

  Okay? And you know what? I embraced it. So what do I do? I'm gonna outwork my competition all the time. I'm gonna use common sense. I'm gonna use relationship skills. I'm gonna have a will to win that nobody else can stop. And you know what? I know that will gets things done where everybody else would give up. I'm never fucking giving up.

• 34:05Emma Grede?

  Let's talk about the work ethic, because one thing that I know about you is when I text you, wherever I am in the world, you usually text back, if not in the same minute that the text is gone, but within an hour, right? Like, you're very much like, it's, there's a lot of immediacy around the way that you communicate. You know, I feel like you've got this sort of band of people around you. You have a very specific way of working. But when I think Michael Rubin, I think the work. I think the person picking up the phone, sending the email, making the communication, making the connection. You do that.

• 34:37Emma Grede?

  Feverishly, furiously, all the time. And I just wonder if you feel like the amount of work that you put in has a direct correlation to how successful you've been? Or you could have, you know, could you have done this, like, working three days a week?

• 34:53Speaker 02

  Zero chance. I, what I'm trying to figure out is how I can get an eighth day in the week that only I get. Okay, I can get a 25th hour in the day, only I get.

• 35:02Emma Grede?

  Let me know when you figure it out, will you?

• 35:03Speaker 02

  So, look, I've had a couple of changes in my life. It's interesting. I've realised that I can't be glued to my phone the way I have been because it's actually screwing my brain.

• 35:14Emma Grede?

  Smart, yes.

• 35:14Speaker 02

  So now what I'm learning to do is I put my phone down for an hour here, an hour there. My oldest daughter's nineteen, she does, it's not like where, you know, she'd call me, she'd need me right away. So I'm actually learning to put my phone down, you know, for periods of time, you know, generally like an hour at a time. Right, because I don't want, I don't want my concentration to be broken. I think I can have a much better discussion with you. I'm a hundred percent focused on you and not having my phone with me. That's a change. That's a new thing for me in my life.

• 35:41Emma Grede?

  And how often are you doing that? Are you doing that every day?

• 35:43Speaker 02

  I, I'd say each day I'm probably putting my phone down, probably twenty to thirty minutes during dinner when I'm with my kids. I try to do it because I just think I shouldn't be, like, that's the twenty, we're fast eaters. So like, I grew up like a, like a Labrador Retriever, just I eat quick. Um, so, but in that twenty minute dinner, you know, thirty minute dinner, I want to focus on, you know, my family. I don't want to focus on.

• 36:04Emma Grede?

  And the other sixteen to eighteen hours you're working.

• 36:06Speaker 02

  And then I'd say maybe a meeting or two a day, I'll just leave my phone on my desk. Now, I also have a crazy OCD habit about myself. I cannot go to bed without responding to everybody on my phone and deleting every message I've dealt with. So my phone, okay.

• 36:22Emma Grede?

  I do that. I don't delete the messages, but I have to deal with everything that's in the.

• 36:25Speaker 02

  So ever since I've been a kid, I, like, if you looked at my phone right now, I wouldn't have more than twenty or thirty total messages. None unread, okay? Because that's how I keep myself in order. So before I go to bed, I can't fall asleep, no matter how. Fucking tired I am. I can't fall asleep if I don't just respond to everybody. So I'm

• 36:44Emma Grede?

  That's a nightmare trait, isn't it?

• 36:45Speaker 02

  I don't always respond during the day, but I'll always respond before I go to bed. Because if not, it actually tortures my brain. I need my phone to be completely organized. So then I know the next morning, what are the things I have to do that are in my phone from the day before. So that's like some crazy OCD thing about my, my brain. Also, if you walk into any of my offices, there's no paper, they're perfectly organized. Like I just, like I'm very OCD like that. I've always been that way. But I do think, you know, you gotta figure out like what works for you. This works for me. Okay. And I do like, I like to be in touch with the people that are around me. I liked even, like, there's probably like, there's this guy in Philly who used to be like a complete detractor fanatic. He would tell us all the shit we were fucking up and doing wrong. And then like, our company

• 37:29Speaker 02

  was too dumb before. We didn't bring detractors. And now anyone who doesn't like us.

• 37:32Emma Grede?

  Oh, bring them in.

• 37:32Speaker 02

  We want to bring them in, learn from them.

• 37:34Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 37:34Speaker 02

  Okay. So this guy now texts me all the time, but I pick up good things from him. Like, it's this customer I just built this relationship with. And I'm like, always this, this, I, I love the guy, by the way. It's like, like, I'm learning from the guy. He's like, he's, he's, but sometimes there's things in the news he sends me before. So it's like, like, I, like, I'm glued to information like that. And I think it makes me better.

• 37:52Emma Grede?

  No, and I think it probably does make you better. But going back to the work, is your expectation that everybody else is going to work like that around you? Because it can't be 22,000 little work of rubens running around 18 hour days and taking 20 minutes.

• 38:03Speaker 02

  I don't think that's realistic for 22,000 people that I work with. I think that would be illogical, not real, like living in a fairy tale. What I would say to you is, if you want to be a fanatic, you have to have a will to win. Okay. And if you just like, if you just want to come in, you know, hit the clock, be nine to five, this ain't for you. Okay. That said, people have lives, people have families, like, you know, I'm not a big work balance life person. That's not who I am. You and I have talked about that before. I'm like, people are like, how's your work life balance? Like, I don't have any. Okay?

• 38:32Emma Grede?

  Because it's all work.

• 38:33Speaker 02

  Because I love it.

• 38:34Emma Grede?

  And not everybody could live up to the expectations of being like that quick all the time.

• 38:39Speaker 02

  Look, I would

• 38:40Emma Grede?

  It's too much.

• 38:41Speaker 02

  I would tell you, if you look at my Direct team, the people I work with day in and day out, the six or seven people that that kind of run the business with me, they have that intensity.

• 38:51Emma Grede?

  And that's your expectation, that on that level, the most senior leaders in the company have to be like.

• 38:56Speaker 02

  They've got to be glued in like I am, have that intensity, love it, be here for the action. No one that I'm with is in it for the money. Like they all want to see the report cards, they want to see they're doing well, but they're in it to win in a big way and to make it better for the fan. And so we're so obsessed with like, if you saw the emails every day, it's everything that we could do better at. It's everything we could build to be better. It's like, we're always just trying to do better. And so that takes a relentless, you know, kind of focus. If I didn't have it for my key, you know, team, then how would that go down the organization?

• 39:26Emma Grede?

  It never would.

• 39:27Speaker 02

  The person that works, you know, in a warehouse or, or, you know, you know, a lid store is going to have the same intensity of a top executive at the company? No, but by the way, some of our next leaders work in the warehouse, some of the, you know, maybe the future CEO of Fanatics when I'm dead one day is in a lid store today. They're in a warehouse today.

• 39:43Emma Grede?

  You don't know.

• 39:44Speaker 02

  Roger Goodell started in the mailroom, he's been the commissioner of the NFL for whatever, since, you know, the last 15, 20 years. So like to me, like I love that story of like you can will anything to happen, but I'm realistic as well.

• 39:55Emma Grede?

  No, I feel like it's, it's.

• 39:57Speaker 02

  Let me tell you about, I'm somewhat real.

• 39:59Emma Grede?

  I was going to say you're somewhat realistic, but the point is that your work ethic is completely unrelenting. Like that, that is what has got you to where you are now.

• 40:08Speaker 02

  100% and if I didn't, we'd be killed because there's so many, we were in three different businesses with lots of competitors. All figuring out how they can beat us. And so we have to be better.

• 40:19Emma Grede?

  No, and I understand.

• 40:20Speaker 02

  Doing things for the fan that are better. And if we're not unrelenting about that, we're done.

• 40:24Emma Grede?

  Yeah. And someone else will be. I want to talk about the money because you just mentioned money that no one in your executive leadership team is in it for the money. Were you ever in it for the money? Cause I think about so many people that, you know, they're in jobs, they're thinking about starting a business and they're like, I just want to make more money. I want things to be better for me. Is that a good reason to want to become an entrepreneur or to start your own business?

• 40:49Speaker 02

  No.

• 40:51Emma Grede?

  That's a pretty simple answer.

• 40:52Speaker 02

  I mean, like, like, look, it's easy. And so before anyone's gonna shit all over my answer, let me just preempt it. Okay. Obviously, I've had more than a financial success where I'm never thinking about money. Okay. That said.

• 41:05Emma Grede?

  Does that make you happy, by the way? Is that, is that to you some sort of like, is there a sigh of relief when you say that? Or is it just so normal now?

• 41:11Speaker 02

  I just don't.

• 41:12Emma Grede?

  You've been rich for too long. You don't care.

• 41:14Speaker 02

  I don't act any different today than I did in two thousand nine, when I didn't have enough money to pay,

• 41:20Emma Grede?

  I know that that's the truth. I know that that's the truth.

• 41:22Speaker 02

  I, I, I am the same exact person. And that's what makes me me. And so I think if you look at, the people that are the most important people in our company, they're driven by the mission. They're driven by making it better for the fan. They're driven by trying to do the unthinkable. They're driven by like, just winning at the highest level. And then generally, the report card is money does follow, but that's not what they're driven by. For me, I don't care about it at all. Now, again, I know people are gonna say, well, it's because you've been so financially successful. So do I think as an entrepreneur, you should be in it for the money? No, I think you should be in it to build, to disrupt something, to build something great, to do something awesome. And by the way, to have so much fun. Do you really, like, let me ask you a question. How much fun do you have doing what you do?

• 42:05Emma Grede?

  Oh, you have not, first of all, I think that I am the luckiest girl in the world. I feel so happy that my job is to come to work every day. And I get to work with like jeans and undies and I work with the, to me, I work with the best people in the world. I absolutely love it. Having said that, I am someone who if, I, I wouldn't, I mean, I wouldn't come here if I wasn't making any money. Like, that has been an important part of what has driven me. I've never gone after something purely for the money, but it's like, I'm happy that I've made some at this point. And I did, I definitely feel like there was a time in my life where I was like, okay, I have this job and I'm not making enough money. If I get another job,

• 42:48Emma Grede?

  I'm not gonna get paid that much more money. So taking that, taking it into my own hands and going, do you know what? I'm gonna try something for myself was why I became an entrepreneur. I was like, I reckon I can do better and pay myself more than where I'm getting paid. That was the primary reason for me going, I've got to get out of a place where I'm being paid thirty grand a year.

• 43:05Speaker 02

  For me. I was born an entrepreneur. I came out of the womb with those instincts. And by the way, it's kind of weird because like my family, there's no signs of business. No. Anywhere else. So interesting, isn't it? Yeah. You gotta do a DNA check or something. But you know, like I like I like even as a kid, you know, what I always loved was to be able to play the sport of business. That's what I've always loved. And today, what drives me more than anything is trying to do things better than we do it today or better than our competition. And to try to keep, you know, just like, I want to build the most important brand in sports. Yeah. I want to build one of the most important consumer companies in the world.

• 43:49Speaker 02

  We're not remotely there today. Like I was just telling someone this story, I think I was telling your husband this. Like I watched the Nike movie, I think it was called Air. Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes. And I watched it like when it first came out two years ago. And I remember going to Google Phil Knight. How old was he? He was eighty five. I'm like, I was fifty at the time I Googled him two years ago. And I thought to myself, wow, I have thirty five more years to do kind of what he's done. Like, what can I do over the next thirty five years? Wow. I really do think of ourselves in the startup phase today. I think we have so much opportunity to, you know, build each of the three businesses we're in to make them so great for consumers and to build something global that every sports fan needs. And then, by the way, we'll think about what other businesses do we want to be in over time?

• 44:34Speaker 02

  Not today, but over time, once we get better at all the things we're doing. So to me, that learning is so fun. So when I think about, you know, kind of what's in it from kind of, you know, a job or a career perspective, I think the learning is what turns me on. Yes. That is the thing that gets me most excited. I think if you as an entrepreneur go to build a business, if you just go to build something great, great shit follows. And by the way, sometimes it won't work. Sometimes you're going to fail. And then you learn from that. Like I could go back and chart some of my biggest failures and say, Man, I learned so much from that and that helped me for my next success. And so like each of my big failures, like, I don't know, they could have been disastrous, but they leaned to something next I did that was great.

• 45:18Emma Grede?

  No, and I mean, it's so clear to me. It's interesting that you say you were born to be an entrepreneur and it's so, it's so interesting because I feel like, I don't even think I knew what an entrepreneur was. I had no ambition to ever start my own business and it's, do you, I just wonder if you think that can be people become entrepreneurs. I, I feel like, you know, it's like I worked a corporate job until I was twenty four, twenty five. And if you are one of those people that's thinking like, I just need to do something different, what, what does it mean? What is it gonna take? Like, what do you need? Like, what are those key things? When you boil it down, and this is not necessarily just about you, but what are you looking for?

• 46:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, so first, I think it was in you, it just never came out.

• 46:04Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 46:05Speaker 02

  Before. Uh, I only wish I met you when you were twenty four, twenty five. I, I would have had you on the Finax team and we'd be that much better. Uh, now I had to partner with you to build off season to be, to be on the same team.

• 46:16Emma Grede?

  We got there eventually. Thank God.

• 46:18Speaker 02

  It took you till you were twenty six, twenty seven.

• 46:19Emma Grede?

  Thank you very much.

• 46:20Speaker 02

  Yeah. Look, I have seen lots of people that were in different jobs, find that entrepreneurialism within themselves and then go out and do absolutely amazing things. I've seen lots of people go out and fail miserably and then do amazing things afterward. So, you know, to me, I think it's about having the self-confidence to not be scared to fail. It's about having the ability to come up with the right idea and test idea and make sure it's big enough to go out and put your energy into it. And it's about doing things you love too. You have to love this. If you don't love it, like, why do it?

• 46:54Emma Grede?

  But do you ever deal with, like, pain? Like, do you, do you have that in your business? Are there times when you're really taken aback by something that it, that it actually, it, it hurts?

• 47:06Speaker 02

  No.

• 47:07Emma Grede?

  Never.

• 47:07Speaker 02

  I'm gonna tell you why. Cause I'm immune and numb to it. Like, I've had so many disasters, every, I could go through like every week of this year and there's always disasters, there's always, you're like.

• 47:17Emma Grede?

  This year, for sure.

• 47:19Speaker 02

  But I'll give you an example. Someone walks in and say, hey, this tariff thing came, it's going to cost a hundred million dollars. I'm like, what are we doing about it? How do we turn this into an opportunity? Like, you can use these things.

• 47:29Emma Grede?

  But you wouldn't, as someone who's so ambitious, right? If you're going to take a hundred million dollars of revenue out of the company this year, that means you made.

• 47:36Speaker 02

  Profits.

• 47:36Emma Grede?

  Profits?

• 47:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, profits.

• 47:37Emma Grede?

  Oh, my God. All right. I mean, first of all, even even worse, right? But then that means that you then can't do something else, or something else has to slow down. That doesn't pain you, being as ambitious as you are?

• 47:48Speaker 02

  Sometimes there's can be really good things because you're built up like right now, here's the way.

• 47:50Emma Grede?

  So you go straight to like opportunity?

• 47:52Speaker 02

  In crisis we're in right now, the tariff crisis, okay? I got together with my team, that business, seven billion dollar business, we have eight thousand employees in that team. Um, actually more than that in that team. And I said, guys, this is a great opportunity. Like, we have to reinvent our supply chain. We have to be fast. Like, and by the way, the CEO of that business is amazing, this guy.

• 48:10Emma Grede?

  Amazing. He's so good, Andrew.

• 48:12Speaker 02

  He's been talking about like this incident, like, well, now we have to do these things faster. Like, we need to own less inventory, we need to turn faster, we need to change how we actually make goods. Like, I'm almost excited by it. I will tell you, I had not one negative feeling. So someone saying, we're going to lose a hundred million dollars in profits, not revenue this year? Great. How do we help that to be better in the future? I could give you ten examples right now of different things like that. I mean, you know, probably the only thing where I feel pain, probably I came up with one thing where I feel pain.

• 48:41Emma Grede?

  So glad you got there because I was going to try and do this one.

• 48:43Speaker 02

  A site outage. That is one thing.

• 48:47Emma Grede?

  That's painful for you. The customers can't get in the shop now, we understand.

• 48:51Speaker 02

  Seriously, I remember Super Bowl, like five or six years ago, there was so much traffic. The site went down. I feel like someone stabbed me and I'm caught and like, you know, if you keep calling the guy who runs technology, he's not actually.

• 49:01Emma Grede?

  No, he's actually fixing the problem.

• 49:03Speaker 02

  Fix the problem with his team. If the sports book is down, like something like that, that actually, that that kills my inner soul. Okay, because I just want to fix it. I think I feel pain, maybe something goes wrong for my kids.

• 49:16Emma Grede?

  Yes.

• 49:16Speaker 02

  You know, but in business, no, because like, I think. One of the things of a good leader is someone who can deal with whatever comes at them in a calm and thoughtful way.

• 49:24Emma Grede?

  Mm hmm.

• 49:24Speaker 02

  I calm down during the most difficult periods. So when like shit's going crazy, that's why I think we have to be calmest, most focused, like game on.

• 49:35Emma Grede?

  No, it's a it's such a brilliant piece of entrepreneurial advice, actually. And I heard Tom Brady once say that when everything's going crazy, you've got to slow down the play. You've just got to like slow it down. And I think that it's really interesting because you can be in these moments of overwhelm where everything goes on top. And you just have to make everybody feel calm. And as a leader, that is such an important component of what we do, because I will tell you that this week in our companies, it is sheer panic. These tariffs have completely upended everything that we do. And it changes the entire face of the company. And if we were to all just descend into panic, I mean, people wouldn't know, they'd start leaving, right? Your best people will be like, oh, my goodness, like she's panicking. What's happening?

• 50:19Emma Grede?

  So you really have an opportunity to show what type of a leader you are.

• 50:23Speaker 02

  Panic, because the reality is every consumer company that makes merchandise.

• 50:27Emma Grede?

  Everyone's going for it.

• 50:28Speaker 02

  With this issue. And by the way, you're going to be able to reinvent your supply chain. Like, look, China's probably not going to be a place where a lot of American companies make merchandise because of the, you know, relationships.

• 50:38Emma Grede?

  I think so.

• 50:38Speaker 02

  Right now. And so, and by the way, China's, you know, they're a really good, you know, partner in making merchandise. But you'll figure out, how do I shift that? How do I make my company better? Like, I know in two thousand twenty six, Skims will be a better company from what you went through in two thousand.

• 50:52Emma Grede?

  Absolutely, no doubt.

• 50:53Speaker 02

  I'm sure of that.

• 50:53Emma Grede?

  Absolutely, no doubt.

• 50:54Speaker 02

  And even though many companies are taking a drop in value today, the good ones will be more valuable next year because they figure out how to take advantage of this opportunity.

• 51:01Emma Grede?

  You naturally have a very long term view. If you're, when you're building something, you're thinking about these new divisions. Are you thinking in five year increments, ten year increments? What does that look like these days?

• 51:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, I say I generally try to think about what things look like in in the period of five to ten years. Like, I don't think about what's it going to mean over the next year or two years, because I think that's too near term focus. I think it's what what can you do over five to ten years? After that, I'm like, okay, I hope I'm here. So, you know, like, I think five to ten years is kind of the periods of time that I think about. I think you can do a lot in five to ten years. You can build something that's that's really, you know, a leader. You can do something that's just so good for the fan if you take that kind of long term mentality.

• 51:39Speaker 05

  Ring Central's AI receptionist uses voice AI to answer on the first ring, so you'll never miss a call again. In just a few minutes, you can personalize your own AI receptionist to answer questions, route calls, schedule appointments, and even send texts in multiple languages. Plus, it's easy to scale. Create unlimited AI receptionists across any phone system. It's all powered by one reliable platform for effortless AI communications. See for yourself at ringcentral.com. Ring Central, voice of your business.

• 52:16Speaker 02

  You talk about pattern recognition all the time. Can you explain that to me a little bit? Yeah, I think history is a great prediction of the future. So, you know, one example that I've used is I interview more people in a given year than anybody at my level. And the reason is I realize how important people are to our company. That is the most important asset. How much of your time are you spending interviewing people? You know, I bet you in a given year, and I work, you know, probably 80 hours a week, on average, 78 hours a week, every week, probably 80 hours a week. I'd say 10 to 20% of my time, okay? And during that period of time, I've never asked somebody for a reference in my life.

• 53:01Speaker 02

  Why? Because anyone I meet, I'm going to figure out who I know that knows them. I'm going to do backdoor chat. If you ask me for a reference, I would call the people that I gave you and say, hey, make sure you tell Emma this about me. Definitely. Anyone who's listening to this, when somebody asks you for a reference, I mean, that is amazing. When somebody asks you for your references, if you don't give them the three or five references, then call each reference and tell them what you want them to say, you're not thinking very clearly. That's right. So for me... What are you doing instead? Because I know you're calling around. I'm calling around and I'm checking on how have they been? What's their history? Sometimes I'll meet someone, I'm like, this person's fucking incredible. I found the person. What questions are you asking? When you reference someone, what are you asking?

• 53:46Speaker 02

  How well do you know this person? Are they a killer or not a killer? How smart are they? How do they work with other people? And I got to tell you something. Of people that I interview that I love... Two thirds of the people I hear bad shit about, okay? And I hear stuff, they don't work well with others, okay? Someone can be so smart, but they're gonna be disruptive. That doesn't work, okay? Another thing that I would hear is they're kinda like they're political, they're big company. I don't want politics, I want, I want, you know, entrepreneurs, yeah.

• 54:15Emma Grede?

  What's a non-negotiable for you? When you, when somebody is interviewing with you or you're going through that like referencing period? What is an absolute no-go?

• 54:24Speaker 02

  Someone has to have a track record in the past of being a winner, okay? Track record is the best prediction of the future. So what are the pattern recognitions you wanna see? How has the person done? Are they a winner? Okay, are they, do they find out how to win? So you're gonna always find that by talking to people that they worked with in the past. And I think the second thing is how do they work with others? Because when you interview somebody, you can't see how they work with others. And you really can't see, like, take anything great, how many, what's the best products Kim's make?

• 54:55Emma Grede?

  Best products?

• 54:55Speaker 02

  The number one product.

• 54:56Emma Grede?

  I mean, there's just so many, but the ultimate bra.

• 54:59Speaker 02

  Okay, that ultimate bra, how many people do you think in the world say they invented that ultimate bra?

• 55:04Emma Grede?

  I'd say there's quite a few.

• 55:05Speaker 02

  Fifty people?

• 55:06Emma Grede?

  Maybe.

• 55:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, they're all gonna run around.

• 55:08Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 55:09Speaker 02

  I promise you, there are dozens of people saying, I invented the ultimate bra, okay? So if I interview the person who says, I invented the ultimate bra? I'm going to Emma or Jens or Kim and saying, who invented this?

• 55:22Emma Grede?

  Yes.

• 55:22Speaker 02

  Okay? I'm figuring that out to figure out, are they full of shit? Are they real? Okay, so one, I wanna figure out, you know, are they a real winner? And two, I wanna understand their track record and then how do they work with others?

• 55:32Emma Grede?

  It's pretty damn good, I like that. One of the things, like, you are so you, like, in every single room. I was very fortunate to be, like, no, no, you, I mean, you really are. You don't change for anyone. And I find that such an appealing, like, it's just, it's, it's a very attractive quality in someone that you just like remain the same. And I came to your Super Bowl party, right? And it was like the who's who of everyone, everyone that was important in sport plus me. And so I just.

• 56:03Speaker 02

  You're important in sport as well.

• 56:04Emma Grede?

  Apparently, I'm about to be important in sport.

• 56:06Speaker 02

  You are important in sport.

• 56:07Emma Grede?

  But you know, the thing that was interesting to me is that you are just being you. You're being you around the commissioner of the NFL, you around all the players, the celebrities, the talent, the media moguls, like, the whole thing. Like, I feel like there's such a, people feel like they need to be a chameleon. They feel like as they climb the ranks, whether it's corporate or they start something that they have to like change themselves. You have clearly not done that at all. Was that purposeful? Like, I'm, I'm just, I'm trying to understand like where that level of authenticity and you being able to always be you, like where it comes from. And why it just feels like such a big part of your brand.

• 56:46Speaker 02

  I love putting great rooms together because what happens when we put great rooms together? Great things happen. I remember seeing some of the people you went up to talk to.

• 56:52Emma Grede?

  Oh, yeah, me, I was like.

• 56:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, you, you, correct. And by the way, I said.

• 56:56Emma Grede?

  I came up a face shape.

• 56:57Speaker 02

  Right. And I said, who do you want to meet? Let's go see these people one by one. And to me, when you put great people together, great things happen. But for me, if I'm not just me, then I think people think like, he's full of shit. He wants something from me. They see through it. They know you're not authentic. So like, I can't even like, I don't ever like, I dress like this every day. I don't ever, like, I think I wear a suit like, you know, once a year for me.

• 57:19Emma Grede?

  Yeah, you didn't have a suit on then.

• 57:21Speaker 02

  A wedding, a, you know, a funeral or something like we have to wear a suit. Like, you know, I'm a casual guy. Like, I don't try to speak more properly because it's not me. I curse because I want people to know, like, you're not cursing here, but I am because that's who I am. So I think like owning who you are, something that's really important. And by the way, like, I just try to be my, like, my best self all the time. And I think, I think it does work for me. And I think, um, people know, like, that they can trust that. And, um, and I'm also like, you see in those rooms, I'm still picking things up from people like.

• 57:52Emma Grede?

  Now, you're, and, but you're, you know, you're picking things out, but you're also putting people together.

• 57:57Speaker 02

  Which I love doing.

• 57:57Emma Grede?

  Consistently, but you do it without, and, and here's the thing. People love a favor for a favor. You don't ever ask for anything back. And I find that so interesting. Like, I feel like you've hooked me up with so many people at this point. And I'm waiting for the phone to ring and you to be like, hey, girl, like, I need this thing. But that doesn't seem to be your style at all, whoever I speak to.

• 58:17Speaker 02

  Well, first off, I would call you for anything I need to know you would do it for me.

• 58:21Emma Grede?

  That's true. Well, I would now. That's true.

• 58:23Speaker 02

  But like, look, I think when you try to. Be calculated about if I do this for that person, this is what they'll do for me. I think you're dead before you start. Like, I always think if you just do great things, it comes back. And so I think I've been fortunate that I like, look, I have guys like Robert Kraft. It's one of the, you know, one of the most important owners in sports. You know, he and his son Jonathan Kraft, they took me like, they kind of took me in like two thousand eight, two thousand nine. And they helped me so much in business, both with advice and relationships. They never wanted a thing from me. And by the way, they would kill for me and I would kill for them. And like, I wouldn't be here today. This, I'm very sad, without the two of them, I wouldn't be here, I would not be here today. Okay.

• 59:06Speaker 02

  There were a number of people like that, but I want to do that for everybody that I can. And I don't ever want anything, but I also know, like, people always like, friends work for each other behind the scenes.

• 59:15Emma Grede?

  Yes, they do.

• 59:16Speaker 02

  And so like, you know, to me, I remember saying to you when you were in the corner, you know, who do you want to meet? And, you know, I remember taking you to a couple of different great people. And like, I was honored to do that, never thought about it again until right now. And

• 59:27Emma Grede?

  Oh, I thought about it.

• 59:28Speaker 02

  But what will make me happy is to see you do something great with, you know, one of those businesses. And, you know, whether it's Nike or Target or whoever it is, it's like great things to come. And that makes me like, so proud and happy that I could create a room and an environment where people could come together. And look, I love bringing great people of all different backgrounds together and watching great things happen. Okay. And that is something that I'm actually pretty good at, because I have such a diverse group of friends and people trust me. And then they come in here and I think they're open minded and know, you knew everyone in that room. Tell somebody you want to spend. So whoever came up to you, you're like, hey, that's gonna be good.

• 1:00:00Emma Grede?

  It's like, it's worth your time. It's a, it's gonna be a great contact. So I, I, and I can completely see that you authentically do that. And it's become a great part of your business, of your brand, and it, and it completely works because you really are.

• 1:00:12Speaker 02

  Karma, by the way, for sure. If you never were.

• 1:00:14Emma Grede?

  It's comically beautiful. Of course it does, right? Because I feel such a warm feeling to you because of the way that you've behaved. And again, when, when we did our deal, and I will say this because I think it's such an incredible trait. Took us six months to get through the legal, but what you told me in the first meeting, what we would do, how we would do it, the deal that you were prepared to make is exactly what we did. And I think when you can take someone on their word like that, that says everything you need to know about that person. And so if you did call me for something, I'd be like, yeah, Michael Rubin, he's the real deal, like he's a great guy. And that, that is like so seldomly the truth, like me moving from England to LA, like I have not seen that very much.

• 1:00:54Speaker 02

  Well, first of all, thank you.

• 1:00:56Emma Grede?

  It's the truth.

• 1:00:56Speaker 02

  Number two, I will eventually call you for something and I know you'll help me and I don't know what it will be, but like that's, that's just what.

• 1:01:02Emma Grede?

  I'll be waiting for the call.

• 1:01:03Speaker 02

  That's what family does for each other. I'll tell you, it's funny when we were talking about off season yesterday and your husband and I were talking about this, he's like, yeah, that, you know, that, you know, a lot, a lot of this is sourced in China, China's completely, I said, whatever it is, we'll figure it out. Like, it's all good.

• 1:01:17Emma Grede?

  Totally.

• 1:01:18Speaker 02

  And by the way, if we need to lose money, you know, on the next launch or the next two launches, who cares? Like, we're a big believer in your wife, we're a big believer in Kristen, we're a big believer, like, it's, it's just like, we'll figure it out. Like, you always think long term in these things.

• 1:01:30Emma Grede?

  And I think it's so interesting, just going back to off season and thinking about like what's happening in like really specifically around women's sports at the moment. And, you know, our business is about all sport, but I feel like there's like a time and a moment where things happen in culture and it collides and it makes the right environment for you to do business. You've been around for a long time. Are you as excited by women's sports and the business opportunities that sit adjacent to that as everyone else? Or like, are you less excited? Like, I, I really want to understand because you, you have the customers, you see what's happening, you have the sales figures, like, what's the, what's actually happening?

• 1:02:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm the most excited I've ever been and the reason is for, since 2011, I've always been saying it's coming, it's coming, it's coming, but it wasn't really here.

• 1:02:16Emma Grede?

  Right.

• 1:02:16Speaker 02

  Now we have two major, well, we have a couple of major opportunities. The one is women's sports in general has so much. Interest from the whole world and so it's it's become a real business like if I think about the WNBA's business five years ago versus today, I mean, what an incredible league it's become. I look at what's happening in each of the women's sports. I think there's never been more excitement separately. Like, think about the women's category of merchandise. We have sucked in that category. There's been so much.

• 1:02:45Emma Grede?

  I'm glad you know.

• 1:02:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, you know, as they used to call it, shrink it and pink it. Okay. And so when I.

• 1:02:50Emma Grede?

  We know the people that did that.

• 1:02:51Speaker 02

  Right. So when I look at, you know, what you and Kristen are doing, when I look at, you know, the Lululemon product that we're now carrying. When I look at, you know, the work we're doing with other people, it's because there's such a big untapped opportunity.

• 1:03:04Emma Grede?

  Totally.

• 1:03:05Speaker 02

  Again, what I think Fanatics was best at originally was taking care of the average sports fan, of which there's billions of. But the problem is, when you have billions of people that are sports fans, there's so many niches. And what we didn't do as a good job is in the niches. Now we're so focused on thinking about each customer segment separately.

• 1:03:22Emma Grede?

  Yes.

• 1:03:22Speaker 02

  And that's a big opportunity. It's something that's a big growth opportunity for us.

• 1:03:25Emma Grede?

  Yeah, it feels like it's going to be a massive unlock. When you can get women's sports apparel right, and I really believe that offseason has a huge part to play here. I mean, women love buying clothes. They love buying clothes with a a frequency that is very different from how men buy them. So I'm just very excited by the space and the opportunity. But how do you think women, because of course, look, sports is still at the kind of epicenter and where the decisions are made, and more importantly to me, where the money's made, it's still super male dominated. How do you reckon that like women can actually get involved in what's about to become like a really important business, like a really big money generating business?

• 1:04:03Speaker 02

  First of all, in our biggest business, the fan group business, our business is only about 15% women's and about 12% kids. It's 50% bought by women.

• 1:04:15Emma Grede?

  Yes.

• 1:04:15Speaker 02

  Okay, so they're controlling the money.

• 1:04:16Emma Grede?

  They're the purchase power. Absolutely.

• 1:04:17Speaker 02

  They have all the purchase power. So let's not forget, they are, I'd say, the most important person, you know, in the household.

• 1:04:23Emma Grede?

  Thanks.

• 1:04:24Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:04:24Emma Grede?

  I'm interested, actually, having worked with you a little bit now and some of the people in your company, but more importantly, that the women in your company, you've really got a lot of very incredible senior women that work around you as well. Like, has that been purposeful for you to cultivate that? Do you think about, I've got this many male leaders, maybe I need to balance it with women? Like, I just wonder, because there is such an intrinsically different way that women operate to men. And I just want to understand your opinion about that and how you see it in terms of leadership and then more thoughtfully, like, as it extends to women and women's sports.

• 1:04:57Speaker 02

  So the way I think about it is, the population represents our fanbase, right? Because we have one hundred and fifteen million customers. And so, we have every type of customer, you know, buys, bets, collects with fanatics. So we need to have a workforce that represents our fanbase.

• 1:05:15Emma Grede?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:05:16Speaker 02

  Okay?

• 1:05:16Emma Grede?

  Yes, you do.

• 1:05:17Speaker 02

  And, and, and by the way, if you think you're going to get there without working at it, NFW. Like, it takes real work. And we're not near good enough at it. Like, we have the workforce that most represents our fanbase today than we ever have. We're not near enough good at it. Like, we got to keep getting better at it. We got to keep developing people. So, yes, we work very hard at it, because I think it's in our best interest of how we build a better company that will be more successful if our workforce resembles our fanbase.

• 1:05:45Emma Grede?

  Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. When you, I'm, I'm so interested, because I do see your daughter around you so much, and I wonder what you hope that she'll learn from you by being around you so much.

• 1:05:56Speaker 02

  So I want them to learn work ethic from me. I want them to see how fun what I do is. And what my daughter said to me, and it was actually one of the proudest moments I've had with her. She said last year, at the end of the summer, we went and grabbed dinner one night. She's like, I just want, you know, like, we have so many friends that are like influencers. She goes, I want to build, she actually, she's dying to do what you do. She wants to build a fashion brand. She wants to be the entrepreneur that builds it. And she wants to be well-known for building a great business. And for me, what I want her to do is just live out her dreams. Okay?

• 1:06:25Emma Grede?

  Of course you do. That's all, that's all any father wants.

• 1:06:28Speaker 02

  Yeah. By the way, she just hit me in the way, and two collabs we have to do.

• 1:06:30Emma Grede?

  Okay.

• 1:06:31Speaker 02

  She's always telling me about collabs that we should do together. And, and, and by the way, she'll tell me, like, this person's hot, you got to check this person out, you should do stuff with them. So, yeah, like, I'm learning from all the time. And I love those conversations.

• 1:06:41Emma Grede?

  And I do want to ask you a question before we get to, like, our final, final questions. Just give me an idea of the things that you think about from a habit point of view that have become non-negotiable.

• 1:06:52Emma Grede?

  And just the things that like form the most important parts of your life. And really, I really wanna understand them as they, as they link to you being successful. Like, what are those things that you just have to do?

• 1:07:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I think the first thing that links to my life is owning who I am. Like, I'm not trying to, you know, be a fake person, hey, like, you know, you know, I, I put my kids to bed every night, or like, you know, I, I, I'm like, by the way, with Kylie when she was younger, I was in a situation where I did put it about a lot of things, but like, Camille's the most incredible mom. And you know, Camille's like, hey, I got the kids, you go do your thing. We, you know, we find the windows, but like, like, I love working, I'm like, owning how much I love to work and it's what I do and not trying to like.

• 1:07:37Emma Grede?

  Apologize for it.

• 1:07:38Speaker 02

  Apologize, but that's number one.

• 1:07:39Emma Grede?

  I see that.

• 1:07:40Speaker 02

  Number two, um, you know, non-negotiable, you gotta work with great people. And like, I will not negotiate on that. And when someone, when I think someone's a liability, see ya. And by the way, you, you, certain people can help you get to one place, they can't get you to the next level. You gotta know how to just like, I love you.

• 1:07:57Emma Grede?

  Move on.

• 1:07:58Speaker 02

  Move on. Um, one of the biggest pet peeves I have is like, someone who tries to bullshit me in any way, shape or form. And I'm, one of my biggest strengths is I have great bullshit detection strengths. So like, if you're trying to bullshit me, I will pick it up. I hear, like, I hear everything, I pay attention to everything. So I will very much, the second I don't trust somebody, gone.

• 1:08:21Emma Grede?

  Gone.

• 1:08:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:22Emma Grede?

  You're just decisive, eh?

• 1:08:25Speaker 02

  I'm very decisive, yeah.

• 1:08:26Emma Grede?

  You are, right?

• 1:08:26Speaker 02

  You can curse by that, it's okay.

• 1:08:27Emma Grede?

  I know, I keep feeling like I'm on the telly.

• 1:08:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:30Emma Grede?

  You are decisive as fuck.

• 1:08:32Speaker 02

  I am.

• 1:08:33Emma Grede?

  There you go. Thank you for enabling that. That was great.

• 1:08:35Speaker 02

  I'm here for you.

• 1:08:35Emma Grede?

  We're going straight to the rapid fire questions, Michael Rubin. You ready?

• 1:08:38Speaker 02

  There we go.

• 1:08:39Emma Grede?

  Rapid fire. Um, all right, first of all, what's the first thing you do when you wake up?

• 1:08:44Speaker 02

  That's the most obvious answer in the world.

• 1:08:46Emma Grede?

  No, come on, what do you do? You pick up your phone?

• 1:08:48Speaker 02

  For the fourth time since I've been asleep.

• 1:08:49Emma Grede?

  You are not supposed to, no, no, you don't get to see, look at it in the middle of the night.

• 1:08:52Speaker 02

  Of course I do. Who, who doesn't?

• 1:08:55Emma Grede?

  Oh my goodness, I'm exhausted. Um, what's the last thing you do before you go to bed? It's check your phone.

• 1:09:00Speaker 02

  Obviously.

• 1:09:01Emma Grede?

  I mean, this was the easiest thing ever.

• 1:09:03Speaker 02

  What, what kind of dumb question was that?

• 1:09:05Emma Grede?

  For you, it was a really dumb question.

• 1:09:08Speaker 02

  Really, I was doing meditation?

• 1:09:10Emma Grede?

  Michael Rubin doing a little hummin' out. I mean, try, have you tried it?

• 1:09:15Speaker 02

  I tried once.

• 1:09:15Emma Grede?

  Yeah, lasted twenty, twenty seconds. What are you currently aspiring for in your business life?

• 1:09:21Speaker 02

  It's a great question. I'm aspiring, I want to build the greatest brand in sport that every sports fan in the world is like, I love this company. And we are so far from that. We have so much to do, but that's what, that's my dream, right? How do I build something everyone's not like, not they, you know, it's just where you go to buy something or it's where you go to bet. It's like, we just make it so much better for the sports fan. Like, that is like so exciting to do. And so that is the thing I'm obsessed with is like, how do I build something that's like just sports fans, billions of sports fans love this?

• 1:09:53Emma Grede?

  That's a great answer. What about in your personal life? What are you aspiring for there?

• 1:09:58Speaker 02

  You know, it, it's harder as you get. So I'm fifty two now, even though I act like a kid and look like a kid, you know, I think at my age, health. Like, yeah, it, it's, you know, I travel with a trainer. Right now I'm having, like, my neck is always, I have a P T person's working on my neck every day because my neck is just pretty cranky. So I think it's, it's, it's, it's health. Like, if you can feel good, I think it's like, I've had the last couple of months, just like some, you know, like, just, you know, fighting, just like, you get older, you just, you gotta work at that harder.

• 1:10:27Emma Grede?

  It's the most important thing. What is a piece of advice that you've been given that changed your life?

• 1:10:32Speaker 02

  I remember being on a walk with Robert Kraft in like two thousand eleven and two thousand and twelve. I was on the phone with a commissioner, very unhappy about something they had done. And I was like, all I want to do is win that battle. And Rob, when I got off the phone, Robert said to me, Michael, give it to him because this is all about the long-term partnership. And you know, you're too focused on the individual win. Even though I was right, you're too focused on the individual win and not focused on just having that right long-term partnership. And that was, that was, that was, that was a good moment because I chilled out, I took a deep breath.

• 1:11:15Speaker 02

  Even though I didn't agree with what they were saying, I, I, I did it the way they wanted and it paid dividends.

• 1:11:20Emma Grede?

  Yeah, I bet it did. What's something that you valued when you were starting out that you don't anymore?

• 1:11:27Speaker 02

  I think when I was starting, maybe even until 10 years ago, I was a work hard, play hard person. I really don't like, people see my life, they see like the five fun things I do a year and they think I'm super fun. Like, I don't value, like, I just value building my company. It's, it sounds like obsessive and people are gonna be like, he's a fucking weirdo, like, all he cares about, you know, is, is building his company, but like, you know, I, I'm less concerned, like, the time I used to have to go out, you know, like, I think building a great company is fun. And so, so I don't, I, I think the things that people would say are fun, you know, maybe I care less about now.

• 1:11:58Emma Grede?

  So that's really the answer to my next question, is something that you value now that you didn't then? What do you value now, most of all?

• 1:12:05Speaker 02

  Well, for sure, it's gotta go back to health. Like, I, like, I, like, I wanna, I wanna do this for another 50 years. I wanna do it in a healthy way in 50 years. So I think I really have a huge respect for health, like, I'm, I'm spending time on that, I'm focusing on that. I value relationships, like, I really care about my relationships, I think they're really important to me. I think, you know, I wouldn't be who I am without those relationships. So I think, I feel fortunate to have so many incredible relationships, so I wanna respect them, give to those relationships. Those are probably the two things I think about.

• 1:12:34Emma Grede?

  They're great things, great things to spend your time thinking about. Thank you so much for coming on the Aspire Podcast, Michael Rubin. It's been a pleasure.

• 1:12:41Speaker 02

  Honored to be with you.

• 1:12:42Emma Grede?

  Thank you, darling.

• 1:12:46Emma Grede?

  If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click follow on your favorite listening platform. While you're there, give us a review and a five star rating and share an episode you loved with a friend. We'll be so grateful. Aspire with Emma Grede is presented by Odyssey. I'm your host, Emma Grede. Our executive producers are Corinne Gilliard Fisher, Derek Brown, and me. Our executive producers from Odyssey are Maddie Sprung Kaiser, Leah Reese Dennis, and Jenna Weiss-Berman. Justine Dom is our senior producer. Our producer is Kristin Torres. Sound design and engineering by Bill Schultz. Angela Peluso is our booker. Original music by Charles Black. Video production by Evan Cox and Kurt Courtney. Social media by Olivia Holman.

• 1:13:30Emma Grede?

  Special thanks go to Brittany Smith, Sidney Ford, my teams at Jones Works and WNE, Maura Curran, Josephina Francis, Hilary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson Rose, Tim Meeke, Sean Cherry, and Lauren Vieira. If you have questions for me, you can DM me at aspirewithemagreed. Greed is spelled G R E D E. That's aspire, A S P I R E, with me, Emma Grede. Or you can submit a question to me on my website, emagreed.me.

• 1:14:04Speaker 06

  These days, you can get an answer from the internet, an influencer, or AI in seconds. But with legal stuff, a quick answer is not the same as the right answer. That's where LegalZoom comes in. Whether you're starting or running a business, or want to protect your family with a will or trust. Registering a business yourself looks easy, but getting it wrong can mean penalties later. After 25 years and 5 million businesses, LegalZoom knows how to start you off right. Once you're running, they help you stay compliant, track deadlines, and file reports for you so you're not hunting down answers yourself. And when it comes to your will or trust, they'll help you build yours around what matters. And they're accepted in all 50 states. Explains why LegalZoom

• 1:14:48Speaker 06

  is the number one online legal services company. When you need a legal hand, visit LegalZoom. Go to LegalZoom.com to get started. LegalZoom provides access to independent attorneys and self-service tools. LegalZoom is not a law firm and does not provide legal advice.