Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: How Vaccines Got Politicized and the Medical Industry Lost All Credibility

Five years after the greatest crime in American history, the only people who’ve been punished are the ones who told the truth about Covid. Dr. Mary Talley Bowden is one of them. (00:00) Dr. Mary Talley Bowden Was Right All Along (06:19) The Origin of the Government’s Propaganda Campaign (17:57) How the Medical Establishment Tried to Destroy Dr. Bowden (27:17) How Effective Is Ivermectin? (42:26) The Health of Dr. Bowden’s Patients Compared to Others Paid partnerships with: PureTalk: Switch your cell phone service to a company you can be PROUD to do business with. https://PureTalk.com/Tucker Silencer Central: Promo code Tucker10 for 10% off your purchase of banish suppressors at https://www.silencercentral.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the HouseMajorityPac.com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 0:29Tucker Carlson?

  So, thank you for coming. So, I want to... Okay, here's my question to you. You were one of the people who was right about COVID, and certainly more right than the US Public Health Authorities and the global public health authorities. And I'm just going to summarize in two sentences what I think your position was. So, you're a physician in private practice in Texas,

• 0:54Tucker Carlson?

  and you're vaccinated, by the way. No. You were not... Oh, you're not vaccinated? I almost did. God bless you. But at first, you have no real reason to think that this is all completely backward. But then you treat COVID patients, thousands, I think, and you start to realize that the therapies that the US government is recommending are not working, that the vaccines are not working as advertised at all, and you start saying something about it and offering alternatives to it, which are badly needed in the middle of this moment, and you're attacked, really attacked. Your livelihood, your professional credentials are attacked. And then, time passes, now four years,

• 1:38Tucker Carlson?

  and it becomes really clear that, once again, you were more right than the US Public Health Authorities. I think that's just demonstrable. I think the science proves that. So, here's my question, after a long preamble. Have you been rewarded for it? Has the AMA given you the Physician of the Year Award? No, I'm serious. Has anybody said, "We were wrong in attacking you, and you deserve credit for your foresight and bravery"?

• 2:24Speaker 02

  No, and I mean, I'm still fighting to keep my license. I mean, I still have the Texas Medical Board coming after me for something that happened.

• 2:33Tucker Carlson?

  Right now you're fighting?

• 2:35Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I have a hearing coming up, um, end of April. And I was trying to save somebody's life. Uh, it was a sheriff's deputy. This is a man that had served for 29 years, trying to protect and save the public, father of six. And he contracted COVID, and this was in the fall of 2021. And that was the third and the largest surge of the pandemic. That's when, you know, this was following the rollout of the COVID shots. So this was eight months following the rollout of COVID shots, and they clearly weren't working. And this man, he got sick. He tried to get ivermectin. He couldn't find a doctor willing to prescribe it. He ended up in the hospital. Um, and he was, you know, went downhill like so many

• 3:20Speaker 02

  people did. And his wife, you know, the, the hospital was talking hospice. They were giving up. They said, we tried everything.

• 3:28Tucker Carlson?

  Come on. How old was this man?

• 3:29Speaker 02

  He was late 50s, early 60s.

• 3:33Tucker Carlson?

  Not elderly?

• 3:35Speaker 02

  No. And, you know, he was a big guy, but he had no comorbidities. He had no other medical problems. And so, you know, this is, we saw this, though, with so many people, you know, day, if you didn't get early treatment, the second week of illness, people would start really getting bad. That this massive inflammatory response would kick in.

• 3:57Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 3:58Speaker 02

  It, it almost always happened on day eight. It was very weird. It was very predictable. And, you know, the primary care doctors. Just shut their doors to these people. They said, oh, this is just a virus. We'll let it run its course and then go to the emergency room if you can't breathe. So that that happened to

• 4:16Tucker Carlson?

  Can I ask you a question? Why would primary care physicians, whose duty it is to treat patients, and they must have known by this point that day eight is the critical day, why would they not treat these people?

• 4:26Speaker 02

  Because there's a dogma that we are taught in medical school and in our training that you don't treat a virus, that you let a virus run its course, because there's this big fear about antibiotic resistance. So they don't want people over prescribing antibiotics. And so the assumption, if somebody comes to you with an upper respiratory tract of infection, and the first three, four days, five days, and they don't test positive for strep, you basically say, oh, you've got a virus, and we'll just wait and see what happens. Well, I mean, that was just catastrophic. I mean, that was really, and I learned so much. I mean, I had that mindset prior to the pandemic. But I just, it just didn't sit well with me when people were coming in and, you know, really struggling to just

• 5:10Speaker 02

  do nothing. And so initially, I tried hydroxychloroquine. But as soon as President Trump came out and said how great it was, the Texas State Board of Pharmacy, they literally shut it down. Like, they prohibited doctors from prescribing hydroxychloroquine. So I put it on the back burner, and I just did my best. I did breathing treatments, steroids, I did antibiotics for secondary infection. But initially, I didn't really have a lot of demand for people coming in needing treatment. I was doing a lot of testing, and that, that sort of got me recognized in town, because I had a saliva test that didn't require a swab up the nose, and I was able to get the results back very quickly. You might remember,

• 5:55Speaker 02

  initially, LabCorp was the only lab in the country that had the test, and they became inundated, and it was taking two weeks to get the test results back. So we had a saliva test, and we, people could just, we could just give a cup, and they could sit in their car and spit in it.

• 6:11Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 6:11Speaker 02

  And then we'd have the results back the next day. So that sort of, that's where it all started. And then monoclonal antibodies came about and those, those worked great. I mean, I, I could get as many doses I wanted. I'd get them the next day. I'd just contact the manufacturer, say, I need 200 doses to be at my bed doorstep. Great. They worked wonderfully. People turned around very quickly. And, but what happened is, and this is during that big surge, when Jason Jones, the sheriff's deputy, got sick, couldn't get monoclonal antibodies, couldn't get ivermectin.

• 6:47Tucker Carlson?

  When in 2001 was that? Do you remember?

• 6:49Speaker 02

  So the summer of 2021. Well, so, well, we'll start in the spring of 2021. So this is following the rule out of the COVID shots. The government is upset because people are not buying it. People are not getting, there's very low uptake, very low interest, there's suspicion of these shots. So in March, they started their PR campaign, the government. They went after ivermectin. The FDA put something on their website about, you can't use ivermectin for COVID. That Biden doled out $11.5 billion to groups around the country. Initially, it

• 7:30Speaker 02

  started with 275, it went up to 17,000. Influencers, church groups, sports leagues, all sorts of people, just funneling out taxpayer money to go after doctors like myself that were spreading misinformation and to, you know, this is, you push people to get these COVID shots. So that, that happened in the spring and that's how, so Houston Methodist Hospital, and that's where I had privileges. They were the first hospital in the country to mandate the shots. And this was April 1st, 2021. And this was the exact day that Biden announced COVID-19 community core, that, that billion, multi-billion dollar propaganda effort. I

• 8:14Speaker 02

  think it was very purposeful. I think the mandate started in Houston for a reason. I knew, I think that they knew if they could get away with the mandates in Texas, they could get away with them anywhere.

• 8:23Tucker Carlson?

  Where was your governor in this?

• 8:26Speaker 02

  He was, you know, he, he

• 8:28Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, a Republican, a Republican governor.

• 8:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, he was, he was a little slow to, to act. I mean, he, he was on board with Methodist. In fact, I have the CEO of Methodist, Dr. Mark Boom, on camera saying that Governor Abbott wanted them to get a shot in every arm. That's, that's according to the CEO of Methodist. But, you know, he did, he did come through eventually, but this is early on. So then that summer, started having all these breakthrough cases. And I was seeing it because I was testing people. So I started to track people that by their vaccination status. And I saw that the vaccinated outnumbered the unvaccinated, and they were just as sick, if not sicker. So I brought this to the attention of Houston Methodist.

• 9:14Tucker Carlson?

  Were these your patients you're talking about?

• 9:16Speaker 02

  People that were coming to my office to get tested. And

• 9:20Tucker Carlson?

  Why wasn't every doctor doing this?

• 9:21Speaker 02

  Well, we can get to that because I mean, I'm independent. So it allowed me to do things that other doctors can't do. But I was actually collaborating with Methodist. I was sharing my data with them because I had so many, I mean, basically, I was just, all I saw was COVID for a few years. And we were trying to get the data published. So we had a good relationship. So I reached out, I said, hey, are you seeing what I'm seeing? Like these, all these breakthrough cases. At the same time, I had all these people coming to me very distraught about the mandates. And, you know, because we were ahead of the time, right? This was before the rest of the country was mandating the shots. But in Houston, if you, a lot of people at Houston Methodist, they employ about 30,000

• 10:05Speaker 02

  people, very distraught over these mandates. And then I, and then I see that they're not working. At that time, I wasn't seeing the injuries. And at that time, I was just very vocal against the mandates. So

• 10:20Speaker 02

  I, um, you know, then we'll, in August, late August of 2021, FDA put out the infamous horse tweet, and that's the, the attractive healthcare worker nuzzling the horse and says, "Seriously, y'all, you're not a horse, you're not a cow, stop it." Tweet went viral, that's right, that's when Joe Rogan got smeared for taking ivermectin. And then, right after that, Biden mandated the shots, and they took away monoclonal antibodies. So it was all very orchestrated.

• 10:52Tucker Carlson?

  But monoclonal antibodies, I mean, I've never heard anybody say that they weren't helpful.

• 10:58Speaker 02

  Right. But if you have monoclonal antibodies available as an option, people are gonna do that rather than get the shot. So that's why, in my opinion, that's why they took away the monoclonal antibodies.

• 11:09Tucker Carlson?

  Which were working.

• 11:09Speaker 02

  They worked great. I mean, it was...

• 11:11Tucker Carlson?

  This is like the most evil thing that's ever happened in the United States.

• 11:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, in my opinion, definitely.

• 11:17Tucker Carlson?

  I'm sorry to keep interjecting, it's just, even though I live this, it's just so stunning to hear it recounted as crisply as you are recounting it. So, okay, so they take away monoclonal antibodies, they mandate the shot, you're sharing your data with the hospital at which you have privileges, what are they saying?

• 11:39Speaker 02

  So their response was one sentence, and it said, "Well, we think the shots are there to lessen the severity." Well, interestingly enough, they've never shared their data, their hospital data, and being the first in the country to mandate the shots, you would, you know they're sitting on an enormous amount of data. And if, if the shots had been effective in preventing transmission or lowering the severity, then they should have shared that, they would have shared that, they would have been, you know, screaming that from the rooftops, if it fits their agenda, but they've been very quiet about that.

• 12:18Speaker 02

  So, you know, I had, you know, all these things, all these patients coming to me very distraught. I had one patient come to me and tell me that her urologist at Houston Methodist called her and said, "You're going to need to find a new urologist if you don't get the COVID shots." And she had a history of bladder cancer, so she was very upset and she was calling me to try to find a new doctor.

• 12:40Tucker Carlson?

  The urologist said, "I won't treat you?"

• 12:42Speaker 02

  Well, he said that the department was talking, having discussions about not treating patients that were unvaccinated.

• 12:52Speaker 02

  He didn't say definitely.

• 12:53Tucker Carlson?

  The Texas Health Department?

• 12:54Speaker 02

  No, this is at Houston Methodist.

• 12:55Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, the Department of Urology?

• 12:57Speaker 02

  Yes. That's what he told this patient. Then...

• 13:02Tucker Carlson?

  Doesn't he have a moral obligation to treat his patients?

• 13:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, we saw all sorts of moral issues during the pandemic.

• 13:10Tucker Carlson?

  Crimes?

• 13:10Speaker 02

  I mean, yeah, crimes. So, yeah, that happened. And then, on the exact same day, I got a notice from a surgery center where I operate that I'd have to get the COVID shot to continue operating. And then, on the same day, I got a notice from this hospital where I was trying to help the sheriff's deputy. They had a court order to give me emergency temporary privileges so that I could give him ivermectin. The wife sued and she was, you know, last ditch effort, let a dying man try ivermectin before...

• 13:45Tucker Carlson?

  The sheriff's deputy, father of six.

• 13:47Speaker 02

  Yes. I testified. She asked me to testify. I testified. Senator Bob Hall testified. We won and the court was ordered to give me emergency temporary privileges. And then, I was to get, either myself personally give the ivermectin to him or have a nurse do it because they thought it was too dangerous for one of their own members to do it.

• 14:12Tucker Carlson?

  To treat a patient?

• 14:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, with ivermectin, which is insane.

• 14:17Speaker 02

  Anyway, I got a notice that they weren't going to deny my privileges. Even though, I mean, I had never, I've never been sued for malpractice. Spotless record. You know, they made me get letters of recommendation. They, they made me submit my surgical case logs. They just fought tooth and nail to make the whole process as difficult as, as they could. And the lawyers ended up having to go back to the judge and fight with, you know, fight with them over just giving me privileges. Whereas, you know, at that time, there was a shortage. You know, they needed doctors to work in the hospitals. And if I, under other circumstances, if I had just shown up and said, hey, I want to help out in the ICU, they would have granted me privileges the same day.

• 14:59Speaker 02

  There wouldn't have been any kind of letters of recommendation or, you know, surgery anyway. They, so they-

• 15:05Tucker Carlson?

  Can I just ask, were you pretty confident this man was going to die without treatment?

• 15:09Speaker 02

  No. So, this is interesting. So, the, the lawyers that were doing this case, Ralph Lorigo and Beth Parlato, they did 189 cases around the country. Similar situation, the spouse is suing the hospital to try to get their loved one ivermectin in this last ditch effort to save their lives. Half of those people, they won the case. And in the cases where they won, all but three patients died. In the cases where they lost, all the patients died. I mean, it's really amazing. And apparently, the judges, their political party matched the outcome of the trial. So, the Republican judges were the ones that ruled in favor of the plaintiff.

• 15:54Speaker 02

  And then the Democrat judges were the ones that ruled against the plaintiff.

• 15:58Tucker Carlson?

  You're making my heart beat fast, hearing this. It's, so what happened in this specific case?

• 16:05Speaker 02

  So, you know, we, there was a lot of back and forth. It was very confusing. It was very, happening very quickly. And, you know, his life is on the line. And-

• 16:17Speaker 02

  They basically, the lawyers told me, "You have the green light. We're gonna go ahead. We can go. It's all good. Everything's cleared." So I send the nurse to the hospital, and she's greeted by the police and the hospital administrator, and turned away. And he never is allowed to get the ivermectin. They appealed and were managed to get a stay on the order, and then on appeal, they lost. So, the wife, luckily, she was able to go into the hospital every day, which was unusual. Most spouses didn't get to do that, but that was one good thing. And this was at Texas Hughley Hospital in Fort Worth.

• 17:01Speaker 02

  So she applied ivermectin to him topically every day, without the hospital knowing. The hospital tied up his feeding tube, because they didn't want her sneaking anything in. They put towels and rubber bands around it, so that nothing could be snuck in.

• 17:15Tucker Carlson?

  These people are evil.

• 17:16Speaker 02

  Yeah. And, I mean, they fought tooth and nail to keep him from just trying a very safe medication, which I believe should be over the counter. And then, and then they turned me into medical board over it, and I'm still fighting those charges. The patient, he did survive, but he spent six months in the hospital. He lost half of his body weight. He never was able to make a full recovery, and then unfortunately, he did pass away.

• 17:46Tucker Carlson?

  That's like, that's a, that's very upsetting, to hear that. That's very upsetting. And so the charges against you, boy, I thought I was done being upset by COVID. You just brought me back. It's such a, it's such a stain on this country.

• 18:04Speaker 02

  It's a stain on the medical profession.

• 18:07Tucker Carlson?

  And just that people didn't storm the hospitals. You, your, your father, your husband, your children dying alone?

• 18:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:16Tucker Carlson?

  You should have showed up with guns and said, get out of my way. It's my loved one and I'm going to be with him when he dies.

• 18:21Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 18:22Tucker Carlson?

  And so I, you know, people should have done that. And I hope they will next time. Excuse me, so, um, your crime is recommending a therapy for COVID. That's your crime or is there, I mean, missing?

• 18:34Speaker 02

  Well, there, the technicality is that I didn't have hospital privileges when I sent the nurse to the hospital. But because this was a, a legal dispute.

• 18:44Tucker Carlson?

  But she never got in?

• 18:44Speaker 02

  She never got in and I was following the guidance of the lawyers.

• 18:48Tucker Carlson?

  So your nursemaid's the threshold of a hospital, therefore you should lose your medical license? Is that, am I?

• 18:53Speaker 02

  Well, I don't think they're trying to, I think they just want to find me and.

• 18:56Tucker Carlson?

  Find you?

• 18:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, mark my record and, um, I could have settled a long time ago. So you have something called an informal settlement conference. It's behind closed doors. There's no witnesses or you, you don't really get to interact much.

• 19:13Speaker 02

  And they offered to make it go away if I paid them $5,000 and took eight hours of CME and retook.

• 19:19Tucker Carlson?

  What does CME mean?

• 19:20Speaker 02

  Uh, continuing medical education. And then, uh, and then retook the jurisprudence exam. So all doctors in Texas have to take a medical legal exam. So I, which I've already taken and passed, but they wanted me to take it again. And I just said, no, I'm not, I'm not caving to this. And unfortunately, the latest, so it's been three and a half years. There have been multiple continuances. They haven't been able to find an expert witness to testify against me. The first one got sick with cancer. Uh, the second one just, I think just chickened out. I don't know. And the third one, the third, um, witness, it turns out that the entire time, and he's, was the former medical director of the Texas Medical Board.

• 20:05Speaker 02

  The entire time, the last 12 years, he's been working for Planned Parenthood. So we found that out.

• 20:11Tucker Carlson?

  Wait, what?

• 20:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:13Tucker Carlson?

  Wait, what, I'm, I'm so sorry. Now I'm tuning in with greater intensity. What is his job, his day job when he's not?

• 20:19Speaker 02

  He's a lab director for Planned Parenthood.

• 20:23Tucker Carlson?

  What does a lab director at Planned Parenthood do?

• 20:25Speaker 02

  I, I don't know.

• 20:26Tucker Carlson?

  Sell fetal, fetal tissue to vaccine companies?

• 20:28Speaker 02

  Probably.

• 20:29Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 20:31Tucker Carlson?

  And he's on the medical board?

• 20:34Speaker 02

  He was the medical director of the medical board.

• 20:39Tucker Carlson?

  And he works at Planned Parenthood?

• 20:40Speaker 02

  Exactly, yeah.

• 20:42Tucker Carlson?

  And this is not Vermont, this is Texas.

• 20:44Speaker 02

  Exactly. No, I mean, Texas is not what people think.

• 20:47Tucker Carlson?

  No, I've figured that out.

• 20:53Tucker Carlson?

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• 23:57Tucker Carlson?

  So do you think like take yourself out of this? This is just like a med school classmate is going through what you're going through. Do you see any other side to the argument? Any potentially legitimate justification for hounding you for four years?

• 24:13Speaker 02

  You know, the medical board's job is to protect the public from dangerous doctors. I mean, it's, it's true though. I mean, there are, you read, you get a monthly bulletin and there are, you know, sex.

• 24:24Tucker Carlson?

  Like the ones who give your kids amphetamines for ADHD?

• 24:27Speaker 02

  Well, yeah.

• 24:28Tucker Carlson?

  Are the ones who hook your wife on benzodiazepines because she has panic attacks? Those doctors?

• 24:32Speaker 02

  Right, right. Well, no, I mean.

• 24:33Tucker Carlson?

  No, not those doctors. Oh, different doctors.

• 24:38Speaker 02

  I mean, we get a monthly email just blasting all the crimes that doctors have done. And it's pretty bad. I mean, it's, you know, sex offenders.

• 24:45Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, I'm not surprised even a little bit.

• 24:47Speaker 02

  A lot of, you know, so that's their role. I, yeah, I don't think I'm dangerous. I was trying to save a life. I stepped on the toes of a hospital. That's, that was my crime. A multi-billion dollar hospital, Advent Hospital. And, you know, that's what happened with Methodist. I stepped on their toes and they just weren't going to have that.

• 25:08Tucker Carlson?

  So at any point during this, can you go to the, I mean, these are obviously huge corporations, but there are institutions whose, whose goal is to save lives, improve lives, bring health to the population. Could, could you ever just like call the CEO of the hospital and the medical director of the hospital and say, this is really crazy. Like, I'm not profiting from this. Ivermectin, there's no profit margin in it, right? I just think this therapy works. I've seen it and I'm gonna try and help and why don't you back off?

• 25:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:36Tucker Carlson?

  Can you do that?

• 25:37Speaker 02

  I mean, at the time that this was going down, we were, it was a legal battle. I felt like, well, I really can't, I just have to, yeah, I can't step outside what the lawyers are telling me to do.

• 25:49Tucker Carlson?

  How much money do these hospitals take from the Biden administration? Do you know?

• 25:52Speaker 02

  I don't, I don't know for sure, but I know that Houston Methodist Hospital has $13 billion in assets. That was actually a couple of years ago. It's probably more now.

• 26:03Tucker Carlson?

  In assets?

• 26:04Speaker 02

  In assets. So 13 billion in assets. And they have, you know, locations all over Houston. They don't pay property taxes. They're nonprofit.

• 26:16Tucker Carlson?

  They don't pay property taxes?

• 26:17Speaker 02

  They don't pay any property taxes.

• 26:19Tucker Carlson?

  Do you think we should get rid of nonprofit status, period?

• 26:21Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 26:21Tucker Carlson?

  I don't understand. I've met almost no nonprofit that I think is good. And that needs to be reformed. We could, we could probably close the deficit just by getting, having these people pay the taxes that the rest of us pay.

• 26:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:39Tucker Carlson?

  Wow, that's just so shocking. Was there any hospital in Houston where you live, I think, that was willing to be reasonable or was not taking orders?

• 26:48Speaker 02

  Yes, there was.

• 26:49Tucker Carlson?

  Good.

• 26:50Speaker 02

  Yes. So there was a Dr. Joe Verone, who is a pulmonologist, critical care doctor. He's now the head of Independent Medical Alliance. He and I, I would have, it was crazy. We'd have patients calling us all over the country saying, "Help, get me out of this hospital." And he would accept transfers from all over the country. So people would be, you know, lifelighted from ICU in Maine and taken down to Houston, and he would care for them. And this hospital, UMMC, allowed him to use ivermectin. And we were, there was a whole protocol that was, it's called

• 27:29Speaker 02

  the Math Plus Protocol, and started by FLCC, which now is Independent Medical Alliance. But it was high-dose steroids, it was high-dose ivermectin, it was high-dose vitamin C, it was breathing treatments. It was all these very basic, you know, not dangerous things that weren't being done. He saved a lot of lives. He worked crazy. I mean, I think he worked over two and a half years straight without even a break. But I was fortunate to have him as an ally and somebody that-

• 28:01Tucker Carlson?

  What a man. Good for him. So you're clearly a data person. Do we have, like, the final outcome? Like, how did those patients do versus patients who were, like, intubated in some Biden-controlled hospital?

• 28:13Speaker 02

  Well, if you look at, there's a great website that compiles all the ivermectin data just by itself. And there, we have 105 studies showing the efficacy of ivermectin. And it, you know, it varied depending on the actual patient, as it should. And you wouldn't always just use ivermectin. So, you know, in my more severe patients, I would use a combination of ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin. During that second week, I would do higher-dose steroids if necessary. I would do breathing treatments. So it's hard to isolate saying, "Okay, well, it's just ivermectin." But when you look on this

• 28:55Speaker 02

  compilation of studies, I mean, even in the late stages, and you were asking me about this earlier, even in the late stages, they showed that ivermectin could decrease mortality by 40%. It's most effective if you actually take it as prevention. So people taking it twice a week do the best. And then the people that start day one, or two, or three, they're the next best. But-

• 29:20Tucker Carlson?

  So we, I mean, that's established. We know that?

• 29:22Speaker 02

  Well, it depends on who you ask. But yes, there is plenty of data supporting that.

• 29:28Tucker Carlson?

  So why isn't that like the official CDC protocol for COVID?

• 29:33Speaker 02

  Well, you know, it would help myself and other doctors who I mean, I'm not the only doctor going through this with the medical board, but if they could make it a countermeasure, then it's protected under the PREP Act and then it makes all these issues that we're having with medical boards essentially go away.

• 29:50Tucker Carlson?

  Is there anybody who has counter data, numbers showing the opposite, that people taking ivermectin like die more?

• 29:59Speaker 02

  Well, I wouldn't say that. They'd say it doesn't work or it's not, but the studies that are all establishment, you know, in the, in the big journals, they're either, either they didn't give the ivermectin soon enough, or they gave too low of a dose, or the study was sponsored by somebody that has financial interest in seeing it not work. So there are studies countering that. But if you, if you look at, there's just an abundance of data showing it works and it's super safe. So I was a little bit nervous before I started using it because of all the, you know, media, you know, that's only for horses and that sort of thing. So I dug into it and I did what-

• 30:44Tucker Carlson?

  Does it help horses? I know we kept hearing it was a horse dewarmer. Is it effective?

• 30:48Speaker 02

  Yes. I mean, for, for their parasite issues. But so I looked at the study where Merck submitted to the FDA, it's on their website, anybody can find it, and you get toxicity data. And there's something called the LD50, which stands for lethal dose 50. It's a benchmark number that is used to gauge how toxic a medication is. So the higher the number, the, the lower the toxicity. And in COVID, we were using higher doses of ivermectin than what you use to treat a parasite. So I wanted to make sure these higher doses were okay. Well, if you look at the LD50 of ivermectin, it's anywhere from 11 to 82

• 31:27Speaker 02

  times what we're giving for COVID. So we are far under that threshold. And then I did a literature search and I tried to find accidental and- Potential overdoses from ivermectin and I couldn't find anything and I checked recently and there was one study showing some issues and then it was a little bit muddy like was this really ivermectin but if you look at Tylenol I mean there's thousands of papers showing toxicity from Tylenol so it is

• 31:53Tucker Carlson?

  I know someone who has you know advanced liver disease from it

• 31:56Speaker 02

  Really wow

• 31:57Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah well that's the thing as you know thousands of people die every year

• 32:01Speaker 02

  Right

• 32:01Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah so propofol used every day in hospitals when you screw that up by a tiny bit you're dead

• 32:07Speaker 02

  Yeah

• 32:08Tucker Carlson?

  Correct

• 32:08Speaker 02

  Right well yeah yeah I haven't seen it but sure

• 32:11Tucker Carlson?

  Killed Michael Jackson

• 32:13Speaker 02

  Yep well that was

• 32:14Tucker Carlson?

  Right but I'm just saying like hospitals work with incredibly dangerous drugs every day

• 32:18Speaker 02

  Right right

• 32:19Tucker Carlson?

  I'm sure you do

• 32:19Speaker 02

  Yeah yeah

• 32:20Tucker Carlson?

  So what are the side effects of it?

• 32:22Speaker 02

  It's I tell people I have a harder time with antibiotics in terms of side effects like if I'm gonna get a call back in my office it's usually about an antibiotic problem not ivermectin but you can get some GI issues diarrhea and then you can get blurry vision but the blurry vision goes away when you stop taking it and it's not like oh I can't read it's more like oh something's a little off not you know

• 32:46Tucker Carlson?

  That's it?

• 32:46Speaker 02

  That's it

• 32:49Tucker Carlson?

  So I guess what you're saying without saying it is that there's really no compelling medical reason to call the cops if your nurse shows up with ivermectin

• 32:56Speaker 02

  Exactly

• 32:58Tucker Carlson?

  So that's like purely political

• 33:00Speaker 02

  Right

• 33:00Tucker Carlson?

  How did your business get your profession get so politicized?

• 33:04Speaker 02

  Yeah it's awful I mean

• 33:06Tucker Carlson?

  Did you know that before all of this?

• 33:07Speaker 02

  No and I remember yeah Methodist came after me very vocally and I had a press conference outside my office as a yeah I'm not I'm not standing I'm not putting up with this and I said you know politics has no business in healthcare and at the time I really believed it I was not political at all prior to this I shied away from pile I really didn't like it and I thought it was too divisive and here and here I am but

• 33:39Tucker Carlson?

  No I think that's such a wonderful and very American You have children.

• 33:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:45Tucker Carlson?

  And that's like a sweet kind of, that's, that's how you should feel.

• 33:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:49Tucker Carlson?

  That's how you should feel. I'm married to someone who feels that way. Ah, I don't like people arguing. Like, that's great. You know, we have important things to do, like.

• 33:55Speaker 02

  Right.

• 33:55Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, no, I'm sorry. I'm not making fun of you at all. I love that.

• 33:58Speaker 02

  But now I feel like there's no other choice, right? You just have to. You have to get involved, so.

• 34:05Tucker Carlson?

  So you were not politically aware at all before this started? And were you aware that your business, that medicine was so politicized? Had you noticed it at all?

• 34:13Speaker 02

  No, it's interesting though. I went and looked at the data for Texas. Cause Texas has been infiltrated by people from all over the country.

• 34:21Tucker Carlson?

  I'm aware.

• 34:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, 33% population.

• 34:24Tucker Carlson?

  It's gonna be California.

• 34:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, it is. And you look at healthcare professionals, what they donated like to political parties. And 10 years ago, they primarily donated to Republicans. And now they primarily donate to Democrats. The whole profession has shifted.

• 34:44Tucker Carlson?

  I have a theory for why, but you, you're the doctor. So you tell me what you think the cause of that is.

• 34:50Speaker 02

  Well, I think medicine in general, I mean, the corporate practice, it's become the corporate practice of medicine. It's become centralized. It's, you know, only 1% of doctors are not employed. I'm one of those, but.

• 35:02Tucker Carlson?

  Not employed.

• 35:03Speaker 02

  Like, so 77% of doctors are employed by a hospital. 20% are employed by private equity or an insurance company. And 2% are employed by the government. And only 1% are like myself, where.

• 35:21Tucker Carlson?

  So your choice is like your corporate douche overlords, private equity or insurance companies, if it's like, it's like a joke, or the government.

• 35:32Speaker 02

  Right.

• 35:33Tucker Carlson?

  Right. And you're in the 1% that has your own business.

• 35:37Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 35:40Tucker Carlson?

  Maybe that's the answer right there.

• 35:42Speaker 02

  Well, I think it is. I mean, we have to, doctors need to regain their power. They've lost all their power and

• 35:49Tucker Carlson?

  They have no power.

• 35:50Speaker 02

  They have no power.

• 35:51Tucker Carlson?

  They're just like little worker bees getting ordered around.

• 35:53Speaker 02

  I designed, so I, when I got out of residency, I worked in a traditional practice.

• 35:59Tucker Carlson?

  What, doing, can you tell us doing what?

• 36:01Speaker 02

  Just ear, nose and throat and sleep medicine. And it was small, but it was, it was easy. And, but I was always bothered by the stranglehold that the insurance companies had over my ability to treat my patients. So like one easy example is, you're a nose and throat doctor, we do an endoscopic exam of the nose. It takes about an extra 10 minutes. Not really a big deal.

• 36:22Tucker Carlson?

  Doesn't sound that fun though for the patient.

• 36:24Speaker 02

  It's, it's really not bad. You numb it up first with spray. There's no shots. But if I did that and I, and I marked the code on the sheet on the receipt, the patient might get some gigantic bill, $400 for doing this little simple procedure, which as an ENT, it's pretty essential. It's part of our, you know, makes us different from the primary care doctor. We're able to look in there. So it always stressed me out in the back of my mind, like, I'm going to do this and is the patient going to get some big bill, right? I hated it. So when I, you know, I took time off because I had, I had four boys in five years and

• 37:02Tucker Carlson?

  Four boys?

• 37:03Speaker 02

  Yes. And, and, and, yes.

• 37:07Tucker Carlson?

  Was that like?

• 37:08Speaker 02

  It was, it was chaotic. Yes. And I wasn't sure I was going to go back. I, I started off, I'm just going to take a year off and that led to seven years off. Wasn't sure I was even going to go back to medicine, but as I got older, yeah, it just kept nagging at me. So I decided to go back, but I decided I was going to do it on my own terms. So I call myself third party free. I don't contract with insurance companies. I don't contract with hospitals and I don't contract with the government. And the only people I work for are my patients. And it was

• 37:37Tucker Carlson?

  So they just like give you a credit card when they come in, that's it?

• 37:40Speaker 02

  Yes. But they, and they can file a receipt, they can file a claim to their insurance company. And yeah, it's very transparent. Everybody knows how much everything costs. And it's actually, yeah, there's so many people that have very high deductible insurance now that they're basically cash patients unless something catastrophic happens. And if you go to a traditional doctor's practice, half the time, they don't even know what to charge you for a cash patient because they're just so entrenched with the insurance industry.

• 38:09Speaker 02

  But there is a growing movement of doctors like myself, and I'm a specialist. So it's a little unusual, but there's something called direct primary care. And direct primary care is like affordable concierge care. It's your paying cash, but it's the cost is typical like a gym membership. So it's not super high. You get a lot more access to your doctor. You got a lot more time, probably more quality. They're not always like minded in terms of COVID. And to me, that's a litmus test for your doctor. But it's a it's a better way of doing it. You get much more access, higher quality care, more time. And you save your insurance for the catastrophic care. That's what that's what we do for our cars.

• 38:53Speaker 02

  And you use your in HSA, so health savings account. If you can get one of those and the government could expand those and make those more available for people because right now it's sort of limited based on your employer. But if you can pay out of pocket for your basics, then you are likely to have a better experience.

• 39:15Tucker Carlson?

  I think it's in, but it also frees the doctor to think independently.

• 39:19Speaker 02

  Right.

• 39:19Tucker Carlson?

  And to think on behalf of patients.

• 39:24Tucker Carlson?

  Why didn't you get the COVID shot?

• 39:26Speaker 02

  Almost got it. I, in my mind, I thought, okay, this thing, I don't think is going to work, but I didn't think it was going to hurt people. I just thought, I just don't think it's going to work.

• 39:37Tucker Carlson?

  Why? Why did you think that?

• 39:38Speaker 02

  Because I trusted, I trusted, yeah, I really had never given the FDA, CDC, HHS a thought. I really hadn't, they weren't on my radar. I just sort of assumed that everything was fine.

• 39:50Tucker Carlson?

  Well, but because you assumed that it's it's interesting that you didn't think the shot would work.

• 39:56Speaker 02

  Right. Well, I mean, it's just because of the speed. I thought, well, how are they going to get this together so quickly that it's going to work? I also, I looked at the study and I looked at how they conducted the study and I didn't like how they did that. So the people, the test subjects were not routinely tested. They were just tested if the doctor felt like they needed to be tested, which seemed a little too muddy to me. So that I had a hesitation on that regard, too. And then I showed up, but you know, I had this looming deadline because I had privileges at Houston Methodist and you had to sign an attestation. And the attestation said that you either got the shot or you intended to get the shot. So I just woke up on a Saturday morning. I'm like, I'll just do it. Let's just get it

• 40:41Speaker 02

  over with. I went to the grocery store and I stood in line.

• 40:46Speaker 02

  Where everybody should get their medical care, right?

• 40:51Tucker Carlson?

  Go to the grocery store.

• 40:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, right. Stood in line and line was long and I got impatient and I was like, I'm gonna leave. I'll come back another time and I never came back.

• 41:02Tucker Carlson?

  Why?

• 41:03Speaker 02

  Why didn't I go back?

• 41:04Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, I mean, that's just, it's a big deal. You've got privileges at this hospital. You know, you treat patients, but it's a part of your business. You're getting paid. And you're a doctor, so you kind of have to get the shot. Like, we're all on board. Everyone's doing this. And they really were mad at doctors who didn't take it because that's, and nurses, because that's such a statement.

• 41:26Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, here's how I justified it in my mind. I never stepped foot in a hospital. I had privileges there just as an emergency situation. So it wasn't like, okay, let's say I got COVID because I didn't get the shot and then I'm going around the hospital infecting everybody. I wasn't in the hospital. I also knew that early treatment worked, so I knew that, you know, this shot was not necessary because I was seen in first.

• 41:51Tucker Carlson?

  I know, but there's so much pressure on everybody, particularly on physicians at that point, to do it. If you don't do it, it's a big hassle. You knew that. It was gonna be a hassle.

• 42:00Tucker Carlson?

  And so, just like, I don't know, the tide is moving really briskly in one direction and you decide to swim against it. That's more than just like a casual decision. That's a serious decision and I'm just trying to get to the heart of why you made it. Because you're clearly a thoughtful person, doesn't like do random, you're a doctor. You like, you don't just do random things one day. It's like, what was it? Was it instinct?

• 42:22Speaker 02

  I think it was more, yeah, instinct and everything was so busy during that time. I mean, I couldn't think straight. I mean, we were, it was just slammed. And I just remember thinking, I'm just gonna go get this over with and just knock this off my list. And then when it didn't happen, I thought, well, this is, this is a sign. You know, I'm not going back.

• 42:46Speaker 02

  So it may just be instinct.

• 42:48Tucker Carlson?

  Or providence.

• 42:49Speaker 02

  Providence.

• 42:51Tucker Carlson?

  Okay, so I mean, that decision changed your life, of course, because it puts you on the other side.

• 42:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:58Tucker Carlson?

  From everyone else.

• 42:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:01Tucker Carlson?

  How did your patients do with COVID?

• 43:04Speaker 02

  Everybody, so I used to give out my cellphone to everybody, especially, you know, the sick ones. Everybody that got early treatment survived. I even had some really, really sick people come in, in the, in the second, third week. So second, third week is when inflammatory cascade set in and people get really sick. I had a man come in with oxygen saturation in the 60s. And he was not a healthy guy, had a history of a heart attack, he had a history of throat cancer. He was a veteran and he's, he basically said, I'm not going to the hospital because normally, if somebody walked in my office like that, I'd call the ambulance and say, hey.

• 43:42Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 43:43Speaker 02

  But I had to allow him to potentially die in my office, which was very scary. But, and I had a handful of people like this. He wasn't the only.

• 43:51Tucker Carlson?

  So he sounds like he's on the brink.

• 43:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, he was bad. But, you know, I had nurses that could do IVs. So we gave him high dose steroids in the IV, we gave him antibiotics, breathing treatments, high dose IV vitamin C, we gave him high dose ivermectin, and we brought him in every day as an outpatient, because I didn't have a hospital bed in my office. And, and he survived. And I had a lot like that. So it was very gratifying. I learned a lot. I mean, it was, I learned that just because somebody's oxygen saturation is low, they don't need to be immediately put on a ventilator, which is the dogma that we came into the pandemic with.

• 44:30Tucker Carlson?

  But I think that dogma has changed, or at least I'm not in medicine, of course, but for normal people, there is this sense that like, stay away from ventilators.

• 44:38Speaker 02

  Right.

• 44:38Tucker Carlson?

  Do you think that's a fair feeling?

• 44:41Speaker 02

  I, yeah, I mean, I can see why doctors did it initially.

• 44:44Tucker Carlson?

  Of course, I get it, yeah.

• 44:45Speaker 02

  Because, you know, if somebody's struggling to breathe, that's a really scary, distressful feeling for a patient.

• 44:50Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 44:51Speaker 02

  When you can't get enough oxygen, it's horrible. So I can understand, but I guess what I don't understand is why they didn't do more to keep them off the ventilator. It's bizarre to me. I mean, they gave them steroids, but they gave them very small doses of steroids. I mean, why didn't they just throw the kitchen sink at these people? And they just got stuck in these protocols and just basically allowed people to die.

• 45:17Tucker Carlson?

  I was in a restaurant the other night, in fact, this weekend, and I had a little trouble hearing what people were saying. And I thought to myself, I'm a little young to go deaf. Why? Well, because I grew up shooting, bird hunting, target shooting. And I remember my father saying, just stick a Marlboro filter in your opposite ear and you'll be fine. I wish we'd had suppressors, but we didn't. You can now. Check out Silencer Central. Silencers play a crucial role in improving accuracy, maximizing your experience, and protecting your hearing. They're not dangerous or scary. It's just the opposite. Not using them can be dangerous. Have dinner with me in a restaurant and you'll know what

• 45:57Tucker Carlson?

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• 46:36Speaker 00

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• 47:06Speaker 05

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• 47:35Tucker Carlson?

  So you said you didn't want to go to the hospital? I live in a, obviously, tiny world like we all do, but I don't know anybody who, in my world, who wants to go to the hospital. I know a lot of people who have resolved, "I'm never going to the hospital." And they really, you know, I've seen it. Very sick people, "I'm not going." What do you think of that attitude?

• 47:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was, I realized, I've been in the hospital seven times, and, I know, well, childbirth.

• 48:00Tucker Carlson?

  As a physician? Oh, well, childbirth, yeah.

• 48:02Speaker 02

  As a patient, as a patient, yeah. And one of them, I was really sick. I mean, I had pneumonia and sepsis, and I'm very grateful to the people who helped me. And this is from the flu, and I had gotten a flu shot, by the way. But now, like you said, I mean, everybody is terrified to go to the hospital. I mean, the hospital used to be the place you'd go.

• 48:24Tucker Carlson?

  Of course.

• 48:25Speaker 02

  Safe place, that's where you go.

• 48:26Tucker Carlson?

  Exactly, a safe place.

• 48:27Speaker 02

  And now people are terrified to go to the hospital. And so, you know, our current administration needs, if they don't do anything, that's a big problem, because the trust has just been destroyed.

• 48:40Tucker Carlson?

  Do you see that with your patients?

• 48:41Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, that's the most common question I get, is where should I go if I need to go to the hospital? And I don't have a great answer for them. You know, your best bet is just keep yourself healthy. I mean, the biggest thing people can do is, is keep themselves healthy. Manage your diet, manage your stress, get enough sleep, exercise, get enough sun, and just stay out of the hospital. But, but keeping your weight under control is probably number one.

• 49:08Tucker Carlson?

  Is it really?

• 49:11Tucker Carlson?

  Why?

• 49:12Speaker 02

  Because you gain weight, you're more susceptible to infection, you're more susceptible to heart disease, you're more susceptible to cancer, and those are the big three.

• 49:22Tucker Carlson?

  And you have to buy new clothes, which is unacceptable.

• 49:25Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 49:26Tucker Carlson?

  You don't want to buy new clothes.

• 49:27Speaker 02

  Right, well, but, you know, if you lose weight, you have to, I've, so I did carnivore for six months, and I had to buy a whole new wardrobe.

• 49:37Tucker Carlson?

  I'm speaking as a man, you can't buy new clothes.

• 49:39Speaker 02

  You can't?

• 49:40Tucker Carlson?

  No.

• 49:40Speaker 02

  Why?

• 49:41Tucker Carlson?

  It's against the rules.

• 49:42Speaker 02

  Oh, oh.

• 49:42Tucker Carlson?

  Can't buy new clothes. That's what keeps me in line.

• 49:47Tucker Carlson?

  Just, sorry.

• 49:50Tucker Carlson?

  Really, it worked that well?

• 49:52Speaker 02

  I weigh now what I weighed in high school, I never thought I'd get to that point, I did it for six months, and, you know, it's not for everybody, but I will say it's a lot safer than Ozempic and Monjorno, and it's very simple, I mean, you, you basically eliminate all carbohydrates from your diet.

• 50:09Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 50:10Speaker 02

  You just eat meat and fat.

• 50:13Tucker Carlson?

  Cheese.

• 50:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, and you snack on bacon, I mean, it's crazy, and you're like shedding pounds. It's boring, but it's simple, you don't count calories, you don't get hungry, I mean, you do go through the sugar withdrawal, sugar's very addictive.

• 50:26Tucker Carlson?

  You think?

• 50:27Speaker 02

  So, but...

• 50:29Tucker Carlson?

  What do you think of fasting?

• 50:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, I tried the intermittent fasting, did not work for me, I've heard that for women, it's not as effective, I worry that it slows down metabolism, but, you know, I have never tried it, and I know people swear by it.

• 50:46Tucker Carlson?

  So, you don't have a good answer on the hospital question, I noticed.

• 50:50Speaker 02

  Oh, oh, how to, how to fix that?

• 50:52Tucker Carlson?

  No, like, what do you do if you get sick? Like, your, your answer was, don't get sick.

• 50:57Speaker 02

  Well, if you have to go to the hospital, be prepared, have somebody with you, have your, there is a patient bill of rights, you have rights in the hospital, make sure you know those rights.

• 51:07Tucker Carlson?

  I haven't noticed them.

• 51:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, they don't, they don't advertise them.

• 51:10Tucker Carlson?

  Why do doctors patronize patients?

• 51:12Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, so that, that's a bit, and it's...

• 51:14Tucker Carlson?

  What is that, treating them like children?

• 51:16Speaker 02

  Well, when I started, 20, 23 years ago, patients didn't have a lot of access to information, not like they have now. So we were in charge. We were definitely in charge because we had the information and patients really unless they had textbooks, they didn't have it because it wasn't, we didn't have online information. And now, I mean, patients are well informed. And so every conversation I have with a patient, I'm, I know that they have been researching and they have a lot of information at their disposal. And I think a lot of doctors don't like that. I embrace it because, I mean, I learn from my patients. And if a patient

• 51:57Speaker 02

  finds something, I will dig into it. Because I don't have time to dig into all of everything, right? And you see weird things and I like it. But I think the doctors don't like that. It's a power thing. And, I mean, it can be frustrating. On the flip side, if you feel like you really know what's going on and you're challenged by something, somebody's read on the internet, that can be frustrating. But it's, the doctors just don't, it's, it's a power thing and an ego thing, mostly.

• 52:31Tucker Carlson?

  That was my suspicion. So what did you end up thinking of the shot? The COVID shot?

• 52:39Speaker 02

  It's horrible. It needs to be pulled off the market. Should have been pulled off the market a long time ago. I looked at my patients in the two years following the rollout of the COVID shots, and 7% of my new patients were coming to see me for severe injuries. I've never seen anything like it with any other product on the market. If this were an antibiotic and you were seeing all these side effects, it would have been yanked off a long time ago. Normally, the FDA will put a black box warning on a medication if there have been five deaths. They will pull it off the market if there have been 50. Well, according to VAERS, which VAERS is Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System.

• 53:19Speaker 02

  And it's vastly under reported, which I have seen firsthand.

• 53:24Tucker Carlson?

  But it's been in place for 50 years or something. I mean, it's longitudinal. So we can see the response to all these different medications, right?

• 53:31Speaker 02

  According to VAERS, there have been 38,000 deaths from these COVID shots. So, under normal circumstances, FDA would have pulled it. Instead, they've doubled down. They've put the shots on the childhood vaccine schedule. All babies are expected to get three COVID shots by the time they're nine months old. The shots are still under EUA status for this age group. So, under 12, they're not even fully approved by the FDA. And yet, they're on the vaccine schedule. And according to CDC, nine million American children have gotten the latest version of these COVID shots.

• 54:06Tucker Carlson?

  Actually?

• 54:06Speaker 02

  Yes, yes.

• 54:07Tucker Carlson?

  Still?

• 54:08Speaker 02

  Yes, yes. Nine million. 12%.

• 54:13Speaker 02

  The concern I have with these kids, so we know Myer.

• 54:17Tucker Carlson?

  Wait, this is going on right now?

• 54:19Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 54:23Tucker Carlson?

  I think we voted against this, correct?

• 54:26Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 54:29Tucker Carlson?

  You're very diplomatic. But I'm just stunned to learn that that's happening right now.

• 54:36Tucker Carlson?

  Could this be shut down?

• 54:37Speaker 02

  It should have been shut down a long time ago. And, you know, what's the...

• 54:42Tucker Carlson?

  Nine million babies have had COVID shots?

• 54:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, children, minors.

• 54:52Tucker Carlson?

  Is it compulsory?

• 54:54Speaker 02

  It's still compulsory in some states, yes, and some businesses, not in Texas. So, Texas actually passed a law outlawing mandates for COVID shots. But I actually reached out to people on Twitter yesterday. And they said, all these people say, yeah, it's still requiring the shots for jobs, or a nursing program, or even transplants.

• 55:20Tucker Carlson?

  So, we're gonna let you die unless you get the shot?

• 55:25Tucker Carlson?

  How could we fix that?

• 55:29Speaker 02

  Well, the shots need to be pulled off the market immediately.

• 55:33Tucker Carlson?

  Who could do that?

• 55:35Speaker 02

  Who could do that? The FDA.

• 55:37Tucker Carlson?

  Okay.

• 55:37Speaker 02

  So Marty Makary, he could do that.

• 55:43Speaker 02

  And then we need accountability. I mean, we need, we can't sweep this under the rug because we will never restore that trust. And that's, that's the key thing is if nothing happens, it's just a festering wound and the trust will never come back.

• 56:01Tucker Carlson?

  Are there any indications that this is coming soon?

• 56:05Speaker 02

  I mean, I'm not privy to conversations in the government.

• 56:08Tucker Carlson?

  I think you probably follow this as closely as anybody. There's so much going on, so I'm going to just plead ignorance on that basis. There's like a lot.

• 56:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:16Tucker Carlson?

  Multiple wars and the economy and, you know, there's just a lot to distract you from this question, but I think it's a really important question, but you are focused on it. Have you seen any sign at all that these products, which according to the self-reporting system VAERS have killed 38,000 people, that they're going to be pulled off the market?

• 56:34Speaker 02

  I have not. I mean, I, it seems to me that HHS, their focus now has shifted, or I don't know, their focus is on food and food quality and improving that. And I haven't heard a word about COVID or the COVID shots.

• 56:53Tucker Carlson?

  Really?

• 56:55Speaker 02

  Not, I mean, and maybe I've missed something, but that's, I mean, I'm just reading what you're reading. I mean, I don't.

• 57:03Tucker Carlson?

  Food is like smoking and, and I love bad food and I love smoking. I don't smoke anymore, but I, I loved it. And I'll just say that and I won't hate me for it, but it's just true. That's why people do it, because they love it. And I love pizza. I don't think I ever smoked a cigarette. I don't think I've ever eaten a slice of pizza without knowing it was bad for me.

• 57:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. It's common sense.

• 57:23Tucker Carlson?

  It's, it is common sense. I mean, I do think like, we shouldn't allow food stamps or SNAP to be used for Coca-Cola. Okay, obviously, there are changes you can make for sure, but like, you know, when you're eating garbage, that's what we call it garbage. I'm 55. They called it that in 1975. They'd be like, oh, you're junk food. You know what junk food is?

• 57:43Speaker 02

  Right.

• 57:43Tucker Carlson?

  It's the delicious stuff. So like, I'm not, I mean, I think it's important. I do think eating right is important. And I try. Not gonna eat any freaking vegetables, though, but whatever. But like, the COVID stuff seem, the, the shot seems like an imminent threat.

• 58:05Speaker 02

  Yes. And my concern, giving it to babies, because myocarditis-

• 58:10Tucker Carlson?

  You're positive that's actually happening? Babies are getting this?

• 58:13Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, definitely. You can find it on the CDC.

• 58:17Tucker Carlson?

  I trust you. It's freaking me out. I didn't know that.

• 58:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's why we can't let this just go away. Babies, so myocarditis, we know there's an increased risk of myocarditis in teenage boys who take these shots. We don't know what that risk is for non-verbal babies, because the symptom is chest pain. So a baby, the baby could be getting myocarditis, and we have no idea. Myocarditis can leave a scar on the heart. And then, years later, the heart is permanently-

• 58:52Tucker Carlson?

  Right, you're playing lacrosse and you drop.

• 58:53Speaker 02

  Right. And, and that's my big concern. These babies could be getting myocarditis, and we have no idea.

• 59:00Tucker Carlson?

  Do you believe that those shots are responsible for permanent immune system damage?

• 59:07Speaker 02

  I think, well, what I have been looking at is spike protein antibody levels. So when you get a vaccine, you can, traditionally, we call them titers. So like, people who get hepatitis B vaccine, you can look at the titers, the antibody levels, and see if you have protection. We do that in the hospital a lot. So they want to make sure, if you work in the hospital, if you get stuck by a needle, you're not gonna get hepatitis B. So I've started looking at these spike protein antibody levels. And it's alarming, because the people, I can tell immediately if somebody had the shot. And, and the vaccinated, these antibody levels are, I did an average last night, 13,000.

• 59:49Speaker 02

  And the unvaccinated averages a thousand. So there's huge discrepancy.

• 59:53Tucker Carlson?

  And this is years after the shot?

• 59:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, years after. And these people, most of these people have gotten two, maybe three. Nobody's gotten more than that, and none of these people have been sick recently with COVID. So it's very alarming to me. It suggests, I mean, we don't know, but it suggests that spike protein is still active and still replicating possibly in the body. And the mRNA in these shots is not mRNA. It's a synthetic mRNA, and it was made to avoid degradation. So it's made to stay in the body. That was the purpose of it, of modifying it.

• 1:00:34Speaker 02

  So when I see these levels like this, it really concerns me that we have an issue with this ongoing spike protein in the body.

• 1:00:42Tucker Carlson?

  What are the consequences of that, do you think?

• 1:00:46Speaker 02

  Well, I think cancer is a big concern. I think immune dysfunction.

• 1:00:51Tucker Carlson?

  How would that affect cancer?

• 1:00:52Speaker 02

  Well, the spike protein is oncogenic. You're Shun Sheen talked about that. So viruses can be oncogenic. It appears that the spike protein, the mRNA shots have SV40 in it, which is an oncogenic virus. There's something called frame shifting. So when the mRNA is in production, is integrating, that it can produce new proteins just by little mistakes that happen. So these new proteins, we don't know what they are, but they could cause autoimmune disease and possibly cancer as well. There's just a lot unknowns.

• 1:01:36Speaker 02

  I mean, we don't even, we need a test to detect spike protein. All we have now is antibody test. We really need a lot more, we need an antidote. We need, I mean, I am struggling because I have all these injured people, and I usually start with ivermectin, and ivermectin helps. It binds the spike protein and is anti-inflammatory. But we're really limited, and we need a solution. So we need the NIH to really dig into this and help these injured patients because they, they're very challenging, and, you know, we're sort of just, you know, experimenting because we don't know.

• 1:02:13Tucker Carlson?

  And they're not helping?

• 1:02:15Speaker 02

  I would say, I mean, I get, you know, I've tried a lot of things and my, the thing that works the best is ivermectin. But it's slow going. It's, you know, I usually put people on for a long period of time before saying, okay, this is not going to work. And it's just hard because we, you know, there's just not, we need the NIH to step up and help us.

• 1:02:41Tucker Carlson?

  Time for another true life ALP story. I got a call from a friend of mine yesterday, honestly, true story, who said his girlfriend had just broken up with him over ALP. He wouldn't stop. And I thought to myself, that's kind of sad. And he said, no, it's not sad. Imagine if I'd married her. Now I know, I was saved. Then the next day, this same friend is driving at twice the speed limit through a major American city, pulled over by a cop in a speed trap. Cop takes his license and registration, goes back to patrol car, runs him, comes back, looks in the window and sees a tin of ALP on the dashboard, pauses, stunned, says to my friend, you use ALP? Yeah, I do, says my friend. So do I, says the cop. We all do. He looks at my friend thoughtfully and goes, drive safely, sir, and hands back his license and registration. No ticket.

• 1:03:25Tucker Carlson?

  So in two days, he's saved from a tragic marriage to a girl who doesn't like ALP and a speeding ticket. All true. It's more than a nickel. In an age where 350 million people are guessing there are about 350 million ALP stories, email us yours. We want to know and read it on the air. Email [email protected]. [email protected]. Give us your ALP story.

• 1:03:50Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 1:04:26Tucker Carlson?

  So one of the primary platforms we use for distribution is YouTube, which in general has been great, actually, if I'm being honest. Lot less censorship than I got in any television job I ever had. So we're really grateful to YouTube. I never thought I'd say that. But the one area where we get censored by YouTube is when we talk about the COVID shot. And, which I think is really interesting. Um, so this will probably be censored on YouTube, but I just want to, I just want to ask you, but you're a physician, clinical physician, you're treating people, thousands of people. Um, and so I feel like I have to ask you this. Tell us about the injuries you are seeing.

• 1:05:07Speaker 02

  So I don't get the, the sudden, you know, collapse, myocarditis, strokes, or situations, because I'm outpatient.

• 1:05:15Tucker Carlson?

  Soccer players.

• 1:05:16Speaker 02

  Right. I see, I see the, um, yeah, it varies, but I've seen some very strange rashes that don't go away with steroids and antihistamines and have actually-

• 1:05:27Tucker Carlson?

  Like rashes?

• 1:05:29Speaker 02

  Like bumpy, red, splotchy. I mean, I had this poor kid, 15 years old. It was all over his face, all over his body. And he responded so well to ivermectin. That was a great case.

• 1:05:41Tucker Carlson?

  So are you sure that was vax related?

• 1:05:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, it came on right. I mean, he had no prior history. It came on-

• 1:05:47Tucker Carlson?

  He's 15.

• 1:05:48Speaker 02

  He's 15. It came on right after the COVID shots. Um, the, I see POTS. So POTS is when the blood pressure drops suddenly, or goes up real high suddenly for no clear trigger, and your pulse may be erratic as well. That's been a big thing with the COVID patients. That's very difficult to, to fix. I've seen a lot of neurological-

• 1:06:14Tucker Carlson?

  Can I ask you about, what does POTS stand for?

• 1:06:16Speaker 02

  Postural orthostatic, uh, hyper, or temporal hypert- ah, postural orthostatic syncope.

• 1:06:25Tucker Carlson?

  I don't understand a single word of that. I probably shouldn't have asked you, but like, what are its effects?

• 1:06:30Speaker 02

  But so, so you feel faint. So you, you maybe just be standing there and your blood pressure drops, or, or your, or your pulse goes up way high and you feel like you're having a panic attack, that sort of thing. Um, so it's symptomatic changes in your blood pressure that occur without any kind of trigger.

• 1:06:47Tucker Carlson?

  What? I mean, that sounds like it could be dangerous.

• 1:06:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. It's very, and it's very hard to treat. So I see a lot of that. I've seen neurological tremors.

• 1:06:58Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, come on.

• 1:06:59Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, yeah, no, no.

• 1:07:00Tucker Carlson?

  Tremors?

• 1:07:01Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm. I saw a patient, a little bit older than me, CEO of a company. He came in and he gave me his business card and he said, hi, I'm this so-and-so. And he gave me his other card and he go, and this is the biggest mistake I've ever made in my life. He gave me his vaccine card.

• 1:07:17Speaker 02

  Very difficult to, I mean, we've gotten a little bit of improvement, but just, you know, and a lot of fatigue.

• 1:07:24Tucker Carlson?

  Hand tremors?

• 1:07:25Speaker 02

  Whole body, his whole body.

• 1:07:27Tucker Carlson?

  No way.

• 1:07:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:30Tucker Carlson?

  Even when he sleeps? That's gotta affect every part of your life.

• 1:07:34Speaker 02

  A lot of these patients say they feel a lot of burning, like pins and needles when they sleep,

• 1:07:41Speaker 02

  which is typical with neuropathy.

• 1:07:45Speaker 02

  So.

• 1:07:45Tucker Carlson?

  That sounds like a life destroyer.

• 1:07:46Speaker 02

  No, yeah, it's, it's bad and they don't just, it's not like giving them an antibiotic and a week later they're better. These are chronic conditions.

• 1:07:57Speaker 02

  And the government's not helping. So, you know, Breon Dressen of React 19, I don't know if she, so React 19 is a organization started to help the injured from, you know, with the COVID shots. The head of that organization was involved in the AstraZeneca trial. So she was a, she volunteered to be a guinea pig and she got injured. Government just came out and said they're not going to help her. They're not going to give her any kind of financial reimbursement.

• 1:08:24Tucker Carlson?

  When?

• 1:08:26Speaker 02

  Maybe a week or two ago.

• 1:08:30Tucker Carlson?

  I don't understand, like, we didn't vote for this at all.

• 1:08:32Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:08:37Tucker Carlson?

  I mean, the government, well, in her case, she was part of the clinical trials, you said.

• 1:08:41Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:08:42Tucker Carlson?

  But everybody else, not including me and you, took it because we were, you know, subject of like the biggest propaganda campaign in American history. So we were forced by the government to take it.

• 1:08:54Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:08:57Tucker Carlson?

  By the way, why aren't the companies paying these people?

• 1:09:00Speaker 02

  Companies have no liability risk with these products. And the PREP Act even further protects them. So it's very hard.

• 1:09:09Tucker Carlson?

  When was the PREP Act passed?

• 1:09:11Speaker 02

  It is not, it does not expire until 2029.

• 1:09:16Tucker Carlson?

  And so, under the PREP Act, they're even more shielded?

• 1:09:19Speaker 02

  Anything that happened, anything that's designated as a countermeasure is protected. So anything that happens in the hospitals, anything that happens from these shots, it's all protected from liability.

• 1:09:35Speaker 02

  There is one really monumental lawsuit going on that could change that. Brooke Jackson is a whistleblower for Pfizer, and she was involved in the research. So she was at the clinical trial sites. She was the manager, and she was seeing all sorts of issues with the way they were conducting the trial. And she brought that to the company's attention. She brought that to the FDA's attention, and she was fired. So she has been in this gigantic legal battle against Pfizer for a long time now. I think we're going on four years. And unfortunately, and this was during Biden, the DOJ stepped in and, and basically said,

• 1:10:19Speaker 02

  no, you can't sue Pfizer. It's crazy.

• 1:10:22Tucker Carlson?

  You can't sue Pfizer? Oh, of course, you can't sue Pfizer.

• 1:10:25Speaker 02

  The DOJ stuck up for Pfizer, which is not usually how that works.

• 1:10:31Tucker Carlson?

  I'm surprised they didn't arrest her for complaining.

• 1:10:32Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 1:10:35Tucker Carlson?

  This has got to be making you pretty radical.

• 1:10:39Speaker 02

  It doesn't seem very radical to me. It seems like common sense.

• 1:10:42Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, you don't seem like a radical person, but this is, makes me feel radical. So neurological symptoms, and you're pretty convinced those are also from the shot?

• 1:10:52Speaker 02

  Well, you look at, okay, what was their past history? Do they have any issues? Were they otherwise healthy? And then, when did these things start happening? And the timeline? And then, the other thing is, they typically go to other doctors, and they get the million dollar work up, and they can't find anything to explain it. And the doctors are baffled. They put them on psychiatric medications.

• 1:11:15Tucker Carlson?

  Not really.

• 1:11:16Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. I saw one patient on a sleeping pill, a benzodiazepine.

• 1:11:21Tucker Carlson?

  No.

• 1:11:21Speaker 02

  And an antidepressant.

• 1:11:23Tucker Carlson?

  That's right.

• 1:11:29Tucker Carlson?

  Why do we have so many mass shooters in this country? I don't know. It's baffling.

• 1:11:34Tucker Carlson?

  That's shocking. So they used to, I mean, in just American culture, they used to make fun of 19th century medical cures for hysteria.

• 1:11:44Tucker Carlson?

  You know, it was always like, you know, the Victorian medical cures and one would have a problem, they'd be like, here's a giant vibrator or, you know what I mean? Like, literally, they made that. Like, it's all in your head, honey, calm down.

• 1:11:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:11:57Tucker Carlson?

  And that was like a trope.

• 1:11:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:11:59Tucker Carlson?

  And, and I was hardly a feminist, but I was kind of sympathetic to that. Like, don't, don't just like dismiss people. You know what I mean? Tell them they're hysterical.

• 1:12:08Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:12:09Tucker Carlson?

  But that's, that's what you're describing.

• 1:12:11Speaker 02

  That's what's happening, yes. They don't get reported to VAERS. I've had to report every single patient that came to my, to see me for an injury. I was the one, even though they'd seen multiple other doctors, it was me that had to report it to VAERS. So I know it's underreported.

• 1:12:25Tucker Carlson?

  VAERS is one of those things, I love the idea of VAERS. And it, I remember reading the VAERS report in 2021, when I worked in television and just going on one night and reading it, like, here's what's been reported from this compound that people are being forced to take. And man, I got so attacked by, you know, the Atlantic magazine and everybody. It's like, no, this is a federal reporting system.

• 1:12:54Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:12:55Tucker Carlson?

  And that was kind of the last I ever heard of VAERS. Like, no one ever mentions it. Like, what's the, what's the point of having it if it's like irrelevant?

• 1:13:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's not subtle. If you look on there, you don't, you don't have to have a degree in statistics to understand what's going on. I mean, it's like, nothing's happening and then whoosh, you know, just, it's, it's not subtle.

• 1:13:14Tucker Carlson?

  Especially since it was in place during the rollout of a bunch of other vaccines.

• 1:13:17Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:13:18Tucker Carlson?

  Like, going a long way back. So it's like, you know, measles, rubella, you know, COVID.

• 1:13:25Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 1:13:26Tucker Carlson?

  Right? I don't have any degree and I could, I could understand that. So does that, do you ever hear federal officials make reference to VAERS?

• 1:13:34Speaker 02

  I don't, I had, not to my knowledge. I mean, I could have missed that, but no.

• 1:13:39Tucker Carlson?

  So the idea of VAERS seems to be the people are complaining again, they need to shut up?

• 1:13:43Speaker 02

  Apparently. It's one more thing being swept under the rug.

• 1:13:48Tucker Carlson?

  Um, okay. So you've told a much sadder story than I expected to hear.

• 1:13:57Tucker Carlson?

  Are you concerned that because the technology in these shots was, you know, brand new, never deployed before at scale anyway? Is that correct?

• 1:14:06Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:14:08Tucker Carlson?

  And the, you know, the trials for these drugs were like, I think we can say it's fair to say a joke.

• 1:14:14Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:14:16Tucker Carlson?

  That there are consequences that like haven't manifest yet.

• 1:14:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's, it's hard to get up to date cancer numbers, but I'm hearing all sorts

• 1:14:26Tucker Carlson?

  of things. Why is it hard to get up to date cancer numbers?

• 1:14:28Speaker 02

  That's a good question.

• 1:14:29Tucker Carlson?

  We're in the middle of a cancer moonshot, doctor.

• 1:14:32Speaker 02

  Right. There, there's probably people that have access to that data, but publicly it's hard. And, you know, so I have to rely, I don't see a ton of cancer in my practice, but I do have friends at MD Anderson, and they said they've never seen anything like it. The young people coming in with very advanced tumors. I think that's what we have to be worried about now.

• 1:14:57Tucker Carlson?

  Can I ask, you've made reference like five times to, to numbers and the difficulty in getting numbers. I don't understand why, I mean, I understand why the identity of patients is shielded by federal law. That seems reasonable to me for privacy reasons. But, you know, the, just the fact that someone has this or that disease with no identifying markers connected, like that seems like it should be public information. How is that not? Why is there so much secrecy around medical data?

• 1:15:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:15:26Tucker Carlson?

  The data itself.

• 1:15:27Speaker 02

  It could be, there could be an agenda behind it. It could just be a total inefficiency of the bureaucracy. It's hard to say, but, uh, yeah, it'd be nice if we could have more data.

• 1:15:40Tucker Carlson?

  Well, isn't that essential to science?

• 1:15:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, it is. But, you know, it's also, I guess, it's complicated in some degrees to get it all out there. But, yeah, transparency would be, even aside from the cancer numbers, I mean, like I said with COVID, there are all these hospitals that had so much data at their disposal and didn't share it. It'd be nice to see, you know, Houston Methodist come out and share their data with us, since they were the first, they led the way with the mandates. It'd be nice to see how successful that effort was for their employees and for their patients.

• 1:16:25Tucker Carlson?

  Can a lawsuit force that?

• 1:16:26Speaker 02

  I actually sued them to get that data.

• 1:16:30Tucker Carlson?

  Man, you are ferocious.

• 1:16:31Speaker 02

  I lost. I, uh...

• 1:16:33Tucker Carlson?

  On what grounds?

• 1:16:34Speaker 02

  I don't know. It was just political grounds, I think. I sued to get their financial data, because as a nonprofit, they are supposed to give it to you if somebody from the public wants to know. But...

• 1:16:47Tucker Carlson?

  This is what they get in exchange for not paying property taxes.

• 1:16:50Speaker 02

  Right, right, right, right. But there was some technicality. I don't understand really why we lost, but we did. We even appealed and we lost on appeal.

• 1:17:03Tucker Carlson?

  Do you think that COVID, clearly there's been no reckoning, you've not been recognized for your bravery and prescience, you called it, and you should be rewarded for that. You haven't been, likely never will be. So there's so much about it, the shots are still being given to babies, that's my takeaway from this conversation. There's no effort to pull this stuff from the market, 38,000 deaths later. There's no recourse the average person has. You can't afford to hire lawyers, and you can't sue the companies that make these products, and you can't sue the government officials that forced you to take these products. Like, everything about it is just pure Orwell. So that's the

• 1:17:46Tucker Carlson?

  downside, and it's like crushing, actually, to hear all of this from you. Didn't expect to hear this.

• 1:17:54Tucker Carlson?

  What are the upsides? Like, people are more aware. Do you see medicine in the United States getting better now that people who are paying attention know what's up?

• 1:18:04Speaker 02

  I think, I think people are feeling more empowered, which is how they should be. I mean, they should, they're not listening to the government for their healthcare decisions anymore. I think people have learned from that mistake. And, you know, I have, I haven't lost all hope. I'm grateful, you know, there was a time where I couldn't even, I was banned from Twitter. I don't know if you were, but, you know, we are, free speech is coming back.

• 1:18:30Tucker Carlson?

  I wouldn't, I mean, they, I'm not, like, they couldn't ban me from Twitter, so they didn't.

• 1:18:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:18:35Tucker Carlson?

  But, but they could ban much more informed, plus, I'm, how am I a threat? I'm just some, like, random talk show host with an opinion. The people they want to ban are the people who are telling the informed truth, the physicians who are treating thousands of COVID patients. Like, you're the threat, not me. You're like, I'm a doctor, I'm a reasonable person, I'm not political, here's what I'm learning. They have to ban you.

• 1:19:01Speaker 02

  Right, right. Well, and, you know, we're making, hey, I, I'm grateful to you for having me on here, because this is old news to most people, right? And, you know, we just need to keep speaking out, we just need to keep, I mean, my foot is on the pedal, you know, even though there is no pandemic anymore, but we must just keep pounding away at this.

• 1:19:24Tucker Carlson?

  Well, it sounds like, indications suggest, I mean, I don't, you don't want to overstate anything, but it, it feels like they're, the consequences are still rippling, and I don't know why there's not an organized effort to find out, you know, are cancer rates spiking? We eliminated cigarette smoking, which was supposedly the main driver of cancer. I was there for all that. They brought, beat me into quitting, which is fine, you know, smoking's bad, I got it. But, like, cancer went up.

• 1:19:50Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:19:51Tucker Carlson?

  So, like, at some point, I have to say, stop? You told me this, the opposite happened, let's talk about why.

• 1:19:57Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:19:58Tucker Carlson?

  I'm not attacking you, but, like, I demand an answer.

• 1:20:01Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:20:02Tucker Carlson?

  And I don't know why, how hard is that, to get some statistician at NIH or wherever, HHS?

• 1:20:09Tucker Carlson?

  To tell me what's happening with cancer rates and pediatric cancer rates especially because that's like crazy town.

• 1:20:15Speaker 02

  I think, yeah, the money is there for the treatment, not for the cause, right? So it is, you know, there's lots of money, it's just going towards.

• 1:20:24Tucker Carlson?

  Well, that doesn't make any sense. Like, how, how can you recommend treatment without knowing its effect? How can you, you can't make any wise decision without all the facts, as we say, right?

• 1:20:36Speaker 02

  Right, but this is not, I mean, this is financially driven. So if you're, if you're in it to, to make money, you're going to go after the treatment, not the cause.

• 1:20:49Tucker Carlson?

  Very cynical about medical care.

• 1:20:53Speaker 02

  Investing a lot.

• 1:20:54Tucker Carlson?

  Would you have gone into this if you had known?

• 1:20:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean.

• 1:20:59Tucker Carlson?

  I'm sorry, not to get you to reevaluate your life.

• 1:21:02Speaker 02

  It's been very difficult, but it's been impactful. And, um, I, I'm, you know, in some ways I'm glad it happened. It's, it's been very educational. And, you know, I have hope that it will change. It may, it's, it may take another generation, but COVID should be the wake up call. And the seeds were there before COVID, but COVID, COVID brought it all out there. And we, and hopefully, you know, we could actually learn from it and change course.

• 1:21:37Tucker Carlson?

  You said you got a flu shot and then you went up, you went up in the hospital with pneumonia and sepsis. I'm certain, not to laugh at your illness, but, um, so, but you got a flu shot. I've never had a flu shot, uh, because I'm lazy, but you clearly believe, you know, you wouldn't have got it, you're a doctor, you wouldn't have gotten it unless you thought it was efficacious.

• 1:21:56Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:21:56Tucker Carlson?

  So you got one. Has what you've seen over the past five years changed your view of other vaccine courses?

• 1:22:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, I. What I've realized is I made a lot of assumptions about vaccines. It was, you know, the gospel according to vaccines. When I was in training, there was no questioning it. It was just accepted fact. They were safe and effective. And COVID made me realize that, well, hold on. Maybe let's see how they were tested. And they have not been tested like other products on the market. So they don't have placebo controlled trials.

• 1:22:30Tucker Carlson?

  Any of them?

• 1:22:30Speaker 02

  No, not like the other products on the market. And they don't have liability protection. So there, the companies are not motivated.

• 1:22:38Tucker Carlson?

  They don't have liability exposure.

• 1:22:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, sorry. Yes. So the companies are not motivated. There's no repercussion if something goes wrong. And there's no reason for it to spend a lot of money to ensure that it's safe. So now, you know, I have questions about all of them. Now, I will say, I'm not seeing the carnage from, you know, flu shot that I, that I've seen with the COVID shot. I, I think there's a different degree of danger there. But it does make me question it all. And if you look at the, the flu shot, in fact, has never been shown to decrease hospitalization or death in people that get the flu shot. And it actually makes you more susceptible to other viruses. And you can treat it. So.

• 1:23:22Tucker Carlson?

  I had a child who was badly injured by the flu vaccine.

• 1:23:25Speaker 02

  Oh, wow.

• 1:23:28Tucker Carlson?

  And for me, that was one of the drivers in not, I mean, I had, when it happened, it was almost 20 years ago, I had no idea that vax, I never thought that vaccines could hurt anybody.

• 1:23:40Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:23:41Tucker Carlson?

  Never even in my mind. I thought they were like one of the great miracles of science. I was so proud that we developed the polio vaccine, which I'm not against. But I didn't know that they had potential downsides. And that's one of the reasons I was like a little slow to want it. But anyway.

• 1:24:01Tucker Carlson?

  What would you do? So it sounds like you're not like against vaccines, but you've, from what you just said, the system around vaccines does not put patient safety at the forefront of concern.

• 1:24:15Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:24:15Tucker Carlson?

  So how would you change that?

• 1:24:18Speaker 02

  Well, remove their liability protection, require them go through.

• 1:24:21Tucker Carlson?

  Do you have liability protection?

• 1:24:23Speaker 02

  Do I?

• 1:24:23Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:24Speaker 02

  No, no, I don't actually.

• 1:24:27Tucker Carlson?

  I don't either.

• 1:24:30Tucker Carlson?

  You know, we need that.

• 1:24:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, it'd be nice.

• 1:24:34Tucker Carlson?

  You just can't sue me. I'm such a good person. What I do is so important to the common will that you literally can't sue me.

• 1:24:41Speaker 02

  Exactly. That would be great.

• 1:24:44Tucker Carlson?

  Sorry, excuse me.

• 1:24:45Speaker 02

  Yeah. So I mean, just make them go through the process any other product has to go through. It's not very complicated.

• 1:24:53Tucker Carlson?

  So that that's the first thing you'd do?

• 1:24:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:24:56Tucker Carlson?

  Why isn't that happening?

• 1:24:59Speaker 02

  Apparently, when when this, it was in 1986 when Reagan put the act in place. I guess there were two companies that almost got just decimated financially because of all the the kickback, the lawsuits. That should have been a warning sign.

• 1:25:17Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, I mean, I obviously hate lawyers. I've never sued anybody. I don't think I ever will. I really hate lawyers quite as much as doctors, but in that range. Okay, so I'm against lawsuits too. I get it. I totally get it. Some of the tort awards are insane and all of that stuff, but I also think it's fair if someone keeps getting sued for the same thing. Like, if I get a sexual harassment suit for political reasons, if I get eight of them.

• 1:25:47Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:25:48Tucker Carlson?

  Like, maybe I'm groping people, right?

• 1:25:52Speaker 02

  Right. Yeah.

• 1:25:54Tucker Carlson?

  Is that's fair?

• 1:25:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's fair.

• 1:25:56Tucker Carlson?

  As an empiricist, you agree with that?

• 1:25:57Speaker 02

  Yes, I am on board with that. Yes.

• 1:26:00Tucker Carlson?

  So last question, what are you gonna do now that this is all over? Like, how are you, other than treating patients, how are you as a formerly politically disengaged person spending your time?

• 1:26:11Speaker 02

  I try to get away from it all as much as I can. And that's what I would advise anybody is just find something, a hobby that gets you away from things and get outside as much as you can. I probably, yeah, my, I'm probably going to slow down my practice a little bit just to give myself some breathing room and I still have four boys in high school, so.

• 1:26:35Speaker 02

  But I will continue to speak out and I may, I may do a podcast, I may, I don't know. I don't know what I'm going to do, but the fight's not over.

• 1:26:46Tucker Carlson?

  Thank you, doctor. I really appreciate it. That was great.

• 1:26:53Tucker Carlson?

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