Jay Kelly

In Netflix’s Jay Kelly, George Clooney plays the aging movie star Jay Kelly. His longtime manager (Adam Sander) and publicist (Laura Dern) struggle to manage Jay on a trip through Europe as he deals with the difficult relationship he has with his two grown daughters. From director and co-writer Noah Baumbach, the film is an exploration of regret and missed opportunities. Follow Pop Culture Happy Hour on Letterboxd at https://letterboxd.com/nprpopculture/letterboxd.com/nprpopculture http://letterboxd.com/nprpopculture See pcm.adswizz.com https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences. NPR Privacy Policy https://www.npr.org/about-npr/179878450/privacy-policy

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

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• 0:16Linda Holmes?

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• 1:58Linda Holmes?

  To Hollywood's long history of movies about Hollywood, we now add Netflix's J. Kelly, starring George Clooney as an aging movie star with a status very much like, well, George Clooney's. The film is an exploration of regret and missed opportunities. Director and co-writer Noah Baumbach works with a big cast, including Adam Sandler as Jay's longtime manager and

• 2:20Aisha Harris?

  ...Dern as his publicist. And they all struggle to manage Jay on a trip through Europe as he deals with the difficult relationship he has with his two grown daughters. I'm Ayesha Harris.

• 2:30Linda Holmes?

  And I'm Linda Holmes. And today, we're talking about Jay Kelly on Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR.

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• 3:59Linda Holmes?

  Joining us today is Andrew Lepin. He's a senior reporter for the Jewish Telegraphic Agency and the host of the podcast, Radioactive: The Father Coughlin Story. Welcome back, Andrew.

• 4:10Speaker 04

  Thank you. It's great to be here.

• 4:12Linda Holmes?

  Absolutely. Great to see you. So Jay Kelly, played by George Clooney, is a famous actor who's still in demand and who's the biggest client of his longtime manager and good friend Ron, played by Adam Sander.

• 4:25Speaker 05

  Look at you. You're the American dream. You're the last of the old movie stars. I'm down here. You're up there, you're down here, you're in here. It's amazing. We've accomplished so much together. Everything you say makes

• 4:36Aisha Harris?

  It works.

• 4:37Linda Holmes?

  Early in the movie, Jay impulsively decides to catch up with his daughter, who's on a European vacation with some friends. It's as good a time as any to get out of town because he's just had a hostile run in with an old friend, Timothy, played by Billy Crudup, who knows some unpleasant things about Jay that he's threatening to reveal. As Jay travels, pursued by a shrinking entourage, Ron tries to hold everything together alongside Jay's publicist, Liz, played by Laura Dern, who is just about at her breaking point, putting up with Jay's bad decisions. As for Jay himself, he's drifting through old memories that remind him how many times he's made decisions that have brought him to where he is, for good and for ill.

• 5:20Linda Holmes?

  And he has limited time to preserve the relationships he has left. "Jay Kelly" is streaming on Netflix. Ayesha, I'm gonna go to you first. You like this movie, right?

• 5:30Aisha Harris?

  I was shocked by how much I liked this movie. Historically speaking, I have been pretty neutral and different when it comes to Noah Baumbach films. I don't actively dislike them, but I also see them and, for the most part, don't really think about them afterwards. And this is a movie, "Jay Kelly," that I was very much drawn to this film from the very beginning. And there are two scenes that kind of got their hooks in me and still have their hooks in me, and I'm still thinking about, you know, weeks after I've already seen it. And that is, first, the early scene with Crudup in the bar. It's just sort of like a really great scene where we learn so much about who both of these characters are, just through dialogue and conversation and like this very noticeable

• 6:14Aisha Harris?

  tonal shift that happens. And it just unfolds in this very, it just feels so real. It feels like a real conversation you would have.

• 6:22Linda Holmes?

  They're old acting buddies. They studied acting together.

• 6:25Aisha Harris?

  Exactly.

• 6:26Linda Holmes?

  Jay went on to become a gigantic star, and Timothy did not.

• 6:29Aisha Harris?

  Yes. And so the genial tone quickly sours, and it's just kind of perfectly calibrated. I think it's just such a well-written scene. I made two bad decisions.

• 6:39Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 6:40Speaker 07

  Yeah, you know, I passed on the original nine oh two one oh.

• 6:42Speaker 06

  Oh.

• 6:43Speaker 07

  I was doing Hamlet in Louisville.

• 6:44Speaker 06

  Ah, that's cool. I haven't done a play in, ah, since high school. Who was the other one?

• 6:51Speaker 07

  Why let you come to that audition?

• 6:53Aisha Harris?

  And then the final scene was really kind of what put me over the top because there are ways in which it plays with expectations, I think, especially my expectations of how these movies can tend to go. And I think it plays into that, but then it kind of rips the rug out of you at the very last moment in a way that I found very satisfying. I really loved this and enjoyed it. And wow, I guess I like a Noah Baumbach film. So here I am.

• 7:18Linda Holmes?

  I'm glad to hear it. I'm glad to hear it. Andrew, what did you think?

• 7:21Speaker 04

  I liked it too. And I guess I do like Baumbach in general. It's notably more sentimental than he tends to be. And I think the things I like about Baumbach, when he's like firing on all cylinders is he makes a lot of these kinds of movies about arrogant, self-centered artistic types. And he usually has a way of showing you the pricklier and kind of uglier side of human insecurity kind of through these characters. And you get a little bit of that here, but it feels a little bit more engineered, maybe. But it wasn't a bad thing. I really enjoyed watching it. There's a lot of pleasure to be found here. There's a lot of comedy because you have George Clooney at the center doing the sort

• 8:01Speaker 04

  of aging actor thing. It becomes like a rumination on like how far charisma and charm can get a person in life and sort of what the limits of those are. And the fact that, you know, he praves the attention of these adoring strangers, but he has next to no meaningful relationship with his own family or with his closest staff. The movie plays with those dynamics in a smart way. And I liked what it was saying.

• 8:28Linda Holmes?

  Yeah, I think they do some really interesting work around his relationship with Ron, with his manager. And I think Adam Sander is outstanding in this movie. And I know it is not news anymore that Adam Sander is a really good actor. I mean, we've seen Adam Sandler be a really good actor. But I think this is maybe my favorite dramatic performance of his in the sense that it is so. Vulnerable. And I think sometimes he's fought the sort of the assumption that he's all comedy by doing roles where the guys are really kind of prickly, to use a word that Andrew already referenced in another context, but you know, guys that are kind of aggressively unlikable to try to play with that, I'm not being funny.

• 9:09Linda Holmes?

  But I think here, he is incredibly, I think, a sympathetic character, even though at times he's also ridiculous. And this guy has essentially put all of his chips behind Jay for his whole life. And although he has tried certainly to maintain his family relationships more successfully and has thus far maintained them more successfully, he has also sort of decided to be in the Jay Kelly business. And you see some of the ways in which that has professional ramifications for him with other clients, because you can't serve everybody equally well necessarily. So you see what that's doing to him. You see the publicist,

• 9:53Linda Holmes?

  played by Laura Dern, who ultimately just kind of has to get out of the madness of this trip and all of this stuff that Jay is doing.

• 10:03Speaker 06

  Why should we be chasing around an infant where we have actual living kids at home who are aging by the minute?

• 10:09Speaker 05

  Because we are supporting a great artist who shares with other human beings what it is to be a human being.

• 10:15Speaker 06

  We're human too, Ron.

• 10:17Linda Holmes?

  But I agree with Andrew that Jay's desire to be adored by strangers becomes a really interesting, there's a great little sequence where Jay doesn't want to get a glass of water for himself. And Ron is kind of like, can you not get your own glass of water? But like 30 seconds later, he wants to do a big heroic, jump into the middle of a chaotic situation and play the hero. Yeah. You realize that if he perceives it to be something that he'll be adored for, he'll go way, way, way out of his way. If he doesn't perceive it that way, he literally wants his manager, who is a professional and probably someone who's well paid, to spend his time going and fetching a drink of water. Yeah. I thought that that juxtaposition was really, really interesting.

• 11:02Speaker 04

  I think one thing the movie does really well to that point, Lynda, is showing the effects of fame and wealth on the people around this guy, the people who are in his orbit. Sandler is great, as you talked about, you know, that scene with Billy Crudup, you get a totally different lens on that. You get someone who feels like he was cheated out of something, feels entitled to it. And the framing of how all these people try to project what they want, or what they think they want on this like actor who like made a name for himself being kind of a blank slate affable guy. I got a lot out of that dynamic. And I think the movie is smart with how it plays with

• 11:46Speaker 04

  that. And what was it worth, right? Like, that's what the whole movie is sort of asking. I saw this movie partially as an elegy of like a certain kind of movie star, that George Clooney is kind of the last of his breed, you know, someone who could build this whole empire off of charm and likability that didn't have to do IPs and franchises. And, you know, to that sense, I thought it was pretty ironic that Netflix drops this movie on the same day that we learn they might be buying Warner Brothers.

• 12:14Linda Holmes?

  Yeah.

• 12:14Speaker 04

  And this sort of further consolidation of what show business used to mean.

• 12:19Linda Holmes?

  Yeah.

• 12:19Aisha Harris?

  Well, let's not forget Batman.

• 12:22Speaker 04

  That's right.

• 12:23Aisha Harris?

  He did play Batman. As we all know, George Clooney would rather we all forget that he did that. And of course, the Ocean's Eleven franchise. But I think your point still stands. And another thing that I found really interesting about this is that it just feels like the type of movie that George Clooney himself, to that point, has been working his whole life towards. Like, this feels like the culmination of his public persona as a movie star, you know. This isn't a one for one comparison, because his children are much younger than Jay Kelly's are in this movie. And so, like, we don't know what his relationship is with the children, but like, by the time he had them, he was in his older stage. So it's not like he was-

• 12:58Linda Holmes?

  And he's talked about that, that he got famous later in his life than it seems like Jay did, and that he thinks that was to his benefit.

• 13:05Aisha Harris?

  Yeah. So this movie makes those very direct comparisons to someone like Carrie Cary Grant, his name is said. Gary Cooper's name is said. Paul Newman's face is behind him at one point in one scene. It was funny because there was a moment on that really great train sequence that you were kind of referencing earlier. All the people on the train are like, oh, my God, it's Jay Kelly. And so he's turning into, I'm with the people. I'm going to talk to the people on this train.

• 13:29Speaker 05

  You're sexy. Yes. You can't get old. If you're getting old, that means I am. I'll stop if you will.

• 13:36Aisha Harris?

  And one of them is kind of, she's a younger person and she's just like nonplussed by him.

• 13:41Speaker 06

  What do you say to people who say you only play yourself? You know how difficult it is to be yourself? You try it.

• 13:48Aisha Harris?

  There's this famous quote that Cary Grant gave, and I'm paraphrasing here, but he says something about like, the critics have accused me of being myself on the screen, but being oneself is more difficult than you'd suppose. And Jay says like basically the same exact thing. It's like, there's just something very interesting about someone like George Clooney doing this sort of meta version of himself. And I think it works in part because George Clooney is just so charismatic, but he's also unafraid in this role to sort of play someone who also like, I can understand why his daughters don't really want to have that much to do with him. You know, and he walks that fine line so, so well. And I think this is just one of the great George Clooney performances because he has

• 14:29Aisha Harris?

  age and he is willing to accept that age comes with these sacrifices and looking back on those sacrifices in many ways.

• 14:37Speaker 04

  I love that he has this generic charm response that he gives to any stranger who encounters him on the street. And then if he recognizes the person, he does this extra beat of like, oh, wait, actually, I want to be genuine with you for a second. He like can't remember how to do that.

• 14:50Linda Holmes?

  I think there's a lot to be said for the film's willingness to recognize both that his status as essentially a business that a lot of other people are supported by is very hard on those other people, as we've talked about. But also it is hard on him. And I think the film recognizes his limitations and what a frustrating person he can be, while also being sympathetic to how he ended up like this, both because

• 15:21Linda Holmes?

  He really loves being in movies. He really loves being on movie sets. He loves doing this work. He always wants to like get the best possible take. There's kind of a running sort of a motif about how he always wants to keep going and try it again. You know, you also eventually meet his father, who's played by Stacy Keach, and you get a sense from that of, you know, that his relationship with his dad is part of how he got this way. I really liked Marriage Story, and one of the reasons I really liked Marriage Story was that I didn't feel like it took anybody's side. I felt like it understood that the situation was terrible for everybody for different reasons, and that everybody had done things that were unkind, and everybody had done things that were frustrating. And

• 16:04Linda Holmes?

  I think what I like about this film, and maybe it's something that I like about the way that Bound Back writes films, is that there's no villain, right? It is a movie about feelings. It's a movie about, largely about this emotional bond between Jay and Ron, and whether or not it is real. And I think that is one of the things that just kind of keeps coming back in the film. To what degree are these men close? And to what degree are they just business associates who are very reliant on each other?

• 16:41Speaker 05

  I loved you.

• 16:42Speaker 06

  I love you too, Ronnie.

• 16:43Speaker 05

  But are we friends?

• 16:44Speaker 06

  Course we are.

• 16:45Speaker 05

  Then be a friend to me, and let's go back to work. I mean, you're Jay Kelly, but I'm Jay Kelly too. We did this together. You actually said that to me one time.

• 16:56Linda Holmes?

  Ron, the Adam Sander manager, calls everybody puppy over and over and over again. And sometimes, when I was watching him do that, I thought, he does this partly because he's consciously keeping himself in that mode of, it's my responsibility to baby these people. Because you meet another of his clients, who's played by Patrick Wilson, who I think is very good and often funny in this. And he also calls him puppy. So it's not a pet name for Jay. The basic emotional question of this film is,

• 17:31Linda Holmes?

  What is the closeness of these two men? And does Jay want to preserve it? And if he does, is it for personal reasons? Or is it for, I have no chance of surviving in my life without this guy who takes care of everything for me?

• 17:49Aisha Harris?

  Yeah, well, I mean, it's clearly both, right? And there's a scene where he flat out says it. He's like, you're my friend, my friend who takes 15% of my income. And that's another thing I think this movie does so well is it really understands the way these ecosystems run. And there is a movie where, you know, Jay could have been some sort of villain or he could have been someone who like is insecure about his acting abilities. That's not what this movie is about. This is about him sort of trying to reconcile with the fact that he loves to be loved, but is not very good at showing that love towards the people who really need it, i.e. his children. And also, Ron, there's the big elephant in the room, I think,

• 18:34Aisha Harris?

  which is Sentimental Value, the movie that we have talked about. Joakim Trier's movie, which is pretty similar in certain ways in the fact that it's about an artist, a filmmaker, played by Stellan Skarsgård, who is trying to reconnect with his also adult daughters, children. It's funny because that movie, in so many different ways, is less sentimental than this. But I think at the end of this film, it's less sentimental than Sentimental Value.

• 19:02Linda Holmes?

  I think that's right.

• 19:03Aisha Harris?

  There is, yes, the sense of like, there's strings, there's pianos. There's a lot of like, oh, what have I done with my life? But I don't think it gives us all the answers in the way that some movies might. And I think that's another reason why, I don't know, I liked it. It just really worked for me.

• 19:20Speaker 04

  I think that ending probably works better for me than the little snippets of Jay Kelly's earlier life that we get throughout the film.

• 19:29Aisha Harris?

  The flashbacks.

• 19:29Speaker 04

  Yeah, they're fine. He's sort of watching them from a distance. It's a thing we've seen in like Fellini or Wild Strawberries. Like, I think Baumbach is very conscious of the influences in those kinds of moments. I didn't really know if we were seeing the snippets of the character's interiority there that maybe I would have liked to. Of course, he doesn't have much of it, so that's also part of what's being established in those scenes. I want to quickly give a shout out to the opening sequence, which is exactly my jam. It's a movie set, there's all these moving parts, it's an extended take, there's people running around, everything's very busy, dynamic lighting. The dog, can we do it with the dog? He wants the dog, can we bring the dog, Cricky? That dog makes more money than any of us.

• 20:13Speaker 04

  Can we see a light drizzle? That's a drizzle, that's what I can tell you. It closes in on Pooni as Kelly at the very end and doing a death scene, which is also very thematically appropriate. Stuff like that, like it really helps elevate this film one notch above a lot of the kind of love letters to movies that we that we tend to get out of Hollywood these days. I liked the the presentation of this.

• 20:36Aisha Harris?

  I completely understand your reaction to some of those flashbacks. I also think it it teetered a little hammy sometimes, I think, maybe, but it just pays off for me.

• 20:49Linda Holmes?

  I think it's a bound back thing that you don't get a solution to the emotional problem of the film in the same way that you do in sentimental value. Kind of get a little bit of a solution to that, right? You have a catharsis. I think in this movie, you have more a person who is learning to live with the consequences of what he has done and what his decisions have been. Because I don't know how you guys read this, but when I watched the movie, I was like, OK, they're being pretty straightforward about the fact that, to a degree, and his daughters don't hate him. His daughters don't hate him, they don't refuse to speak to him. But in terms of the closeness that he finds that

• 21:31Linda Holmes?

  he wishes he had had with them, it's too late. And I think the movie is honest about the fact that it's too late to redo everything and end up with the version of your life that you now think maybe would have been better. And you have to find a way to be at peace with that and to try to be honest with yourself about your regrets and about your choices. I think there's a really interesting ambiguity.

• 22:01Speaker 04

  Absolutely, yeah. There seems to be a lot going on this movie season with like discussions of like sacrifices that you are or are not willing to make to achieve greatness. Just saw Blue Moon as well, and there's a little bit of conversation with that here.

• 22:16Linda Holmes?

  Yeah.

• 22:17Speaker 04

  Everybody seems to be coming to different conclusions about what is worthwhile here and what is the goal. He doesn't know how to how to turn off that drive or what the drive is for.

• 22:27Linda Holmes?

  You get it, and then you have to keep it.

• 22:29Aisha Harris?

  Yeah.

• 22:29Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 22:29Aisha Harris?

  Yeah. It makes me a little bit happy or pleased that we're finally asking the question, can men have it all? And clearly,

• 22:40Aisha Harris?

  clearly, it's an eternal question for everyone.

• 22:44Linda Holmes?

  Well, I think this is a movie that we all sort of liked. I certainly recommend seeing it for the performances, particularly, great job, Adam Sandler.

• 22:51Aisha Harris?

  Yeah.

• 22:51Linda Holmes?

  Just great job. Well, tell us what you think about Jake Kelly. Find us on Facebook at facebook.com/PCHH and on Letterboxd at letterboxd.com/NPRPopCulture. We'll have a link in our episode description. That brings us to the end of our show. Andrew Lepin, Aisha Harris, thank you so much for being here. I would go to Tuscany with either of you anytime.

• 23:11Speaker 04

  Pack my bags. Let's go.

• 23:12Aisha Harris?

  Same. Thank you, Linda.

• 23:14Linda Holmes?

  This episode was produced by Liz Metzger, Carly Rubin, Kayla Latimore, and Mike Katzif, and it was edited by our showrunner, Jessica Reedy. Hello Coming provides our theme music. Thank you for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR. I'm Linda Holmes, and we'll see you all next time.

• 23:33Speaker 03

  Stay tuned for the following announcements and messages from our sponsors.