Bonus Episode: CASSM, Nikki Sixx, and the Gospel According to Jimmy Buffett

This week, Jake dives deeper into Nikki Sixx (Mötley Crüe, Part 2), calls out the Corporate Algorithmic Studio Storytelling Machine (CASSM), and explains why he’s suddenly obsessed with Jimmy Buffett. Plus: Jeff Buckley, Oasis, and your voicemails and DMs. On Tuesday, we're bringing you our episode on Waylon Jennings, and Jake wants to know: Who was the most punk rock country singer? Share your thoughts at 617-906-6638, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, or on socials @disgracelandpod. For more great Disgraceland episodes, dive into our extensive archive, including such episodes as: Episode 76 - ⁠New York Dolls https://www.disgracelandpod.com/076/new-york-dolls Episode 178 - Bob Dylan https://www.disgracelandpod.com/178/bob-dylan Episode 227 - Bob Dylan pt 2 https://www.disgracelandpod.com/228/bob-dylan-pt-2 Episode 72 - Ramones To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  This is exactly right.

• 0:13Speaker 01

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 0:44Speaker 00

  Sponsored by GSK, the makers of Extenture. Depamocumab ULAA. If your asthma keeps interrupting, it may be time to try something else. Extenture is an ultra-long-acting prescription maintenance treatment for severe asthma, eosinophilic type, ages 12 and older. It isn't for sudden breathing problems. Extenture is the first and only add-on treatment that can help deliver protection from asthma attacks with two doses a year. Just one dose every six months. That's a lot of time for everything in between. Serious allergic reactions can occur. Get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. Don't change or stop medicines, including steroids, unless told by your doctor. Report if you have a parasitic infection, common cold, sinus infection, inflammation

• 1:29Speaker 00

  in the nose, flu or fluke-like symptoms, joint pain or sore throat may occur. Carry on with fewer attacks and ask your doctor about Extenture. Learn more at extenture.com or call 1-833-393-3678.

• 1:46Jake Brennan?

  Hey, Discos. Need a little more DisgraceLand in your life? Just a touch to get you through? Yeah, me too. This is the podcast that comes after the podcast. Welcome to DisgraceLand: The After Party.

• 2:13Jake Brennan?

  Welcome to the Disgrace Land bonus episode, a little thing we like to call the after-party. This is the show after the show, the party after the party, the bridge to get you from one full episode of Disgrace Land to the other, the backyard to dig into the dirt. Our mission, to uncover the truth, to confront the myth, to reclaim the story. On this bonus episode, we are talking about this week's full episode subject, Nicky Six, part two of our Motley Crue saga. We're rewinding back to our Pink Floyd episode, previewing our upcoming episode on Waylon Jennings, and we get into your voicemails, texts, DMs, and as always, a whole lot of Rosie. This is the podcast for the musically obsessed, the outsiders, the independent thinkers who know that the best history is the history that gets buried.

• 2:54Jake Brennan?

  Disgrace Land is where I tell the stories they didn't want told, the kind you end up telling to someone else. All right, discos, let's get into it.

• 3:14Jake Brennan?

  Oftentimes, when I'm writing a Disgrace Land episode, I'm not only thinking of you guys, I have an image of what you guys look like. Now, I don't know a lot of you personally, but some of you I do, some of you I've, I've met in person, at events, some of you I'm more familiar with from the Patreon connection that we have in the chat, and of course, I get a sense of who you are and what you look like from our interactions on social. Now, some of you are horn-rimmed, glasses-wearing librarians, and some of you are tattooed truck drivers, and some of you are everything in between. What connects you isn't how you look, of course, whether that's similar or dissimilar. What connects you is your curiosity. You, like me, are obsessed.

• 4:01Jake Brennan?

  I've been thinking about this a lot lately. Obsessed with music, obsessed with great storytelling, obsessed with the truth, because the truth is far more interesting than the basic PR approved, or AI-generated, or basic AF creator drivel that we're getting in our feeds these days, being on social, or even from the new documentaries and biopics that we're getting from the streamers. As somebody who deals pretty much exclusively in music history, this is very discouraging for me, okay? There's so much more to these music history stories. You saw Gimme Shelter, you've seen 24 Hour Party People, you know what great music storytelling is.

• 4:43Jake Brennan?

  You are cooler than your average, basic music listener. You know that most of the stories about the musicians you love, the ones the algorithm is feeding us, are sanitized, spun, quote-unquote "safe narratives", cleaned up by some unholy union of sentimental dramatists and tightly-rounded entertainment lawyers, made for modern TV, not for mythology. But the truth is that the myth is way more entertaining than what they're giving us. These motherfuckers are everywhere too, okay? The corporate algorithmic studio storytelling machine. My YouTube feed is an abomination of shitty, rote, creator-in-AI storytelling. Yes, Mr. YouTube, I like music, sure,

• 5:25Jake Brennan?

  but I don't need 17 different avatars trying to explain to me who the fucking Beatles are. I get it, okay? "Oh, you see me, you say? You want to offer me something perhaps a bit more niche? The reason the Beatles stopped touring." I'm good, dude. I don't need a millionth explanation on how the screaming girls were too loud. If you're not talking about Japanese assassins at Budokan trying to take out George and Ringo, I'm clicking "next", and I'm guessing that you are too. The streamers are even worse, because they have the money and the means to make great content. And what do we get? It ain't good. The documentaries are boring. I know the stories. I know them as they're unfolding on the screen in front of me. The biopics, they often leave out the nasty little bits. And even when the story is bonkers, they blow it these days. Chaos on Netflix was a massive disappointment.

• 6:09Jake Brennan?

  Now, I don't blame Arrowhead. Morris or Tom O'Neill, I can tell that the doc was noted to death by executives. It missed on all the magical storytelling in the book and definitely could have been made to be great if the executives got out of the way and let the storytellers do their thing. I don't know about you guys, but the corporate algorithmic studio storytelling machine, this, this blob that I'm, I'm referring to here that I'm, I'm going to call CASM. All right. C A S S M. Again, corporate algorithmic studio storytelling machine. C A S S M CASM, AKA the divide between us and great stories. See what I did here? This thing, this blob, it's taking over. Okay. And it makes me feel it's freaking alienating, man, because, because of you guys, I know

• 6:54Jake Brennan?

  there are hundreds of thousands of people out there who are clamoring for the true stories from music history. I don't need to be made to feel by Mr. CASM here that I'm alone, or that I'm a freak for caring about the fact that John Lennon was into Barbara Walters and hung up on Bruce Springsteen. These are the details I want in my storytelling. Because like you, I'm curious. Because like you, I want more interesting stories. Because like you, I'm smart enough to know that the truth is more interesting than the sanitized. Because like you, I'm cool enough to know that CASM, the corporate algorithmic studio storytelling machine is the problem, not me. And that the solution is, well, better stories for music

• 7:37Jake Brennan?

  history anyways, in this case. The stories we tell to each other every week. The stories you not only want to hear, but that you want to tell. The stories they don't want told. Now, all that said, the trailer for the new Jeff Buckley documentary dropped today, and I am nothing if not hopelessly hopeful because the trailer for It's Never Over, Jeff Buckley, directed by Amy Berg, it looks incredible. I have high hopes, hopes that this film gets to the core of this incredible artist and delivers storytelling that's worthy of such a legend. Again, I'm hopeful despite my opening rant here. I'm not cynical. Okay. I watched the trailer for this documentary and I literally got emotional. I felt something akin to actual loss. I'm not joking. I didn't know.

• 8:21Jake Brennan?

  Jeff, but I feel connected to him for a lot of different reasons. Some of you do too, I'm sure. We discussed these reasons already when we released our Jeff Buckley episode a couple of years ago, or whatever it was. And, you know, some we'll discuss in the future. Once this movie drops, we'll get into all of it. But the loss of Jeff Buckley was as tremendous as his explosion was onto the scene. And I can't wait to get a deeper dive into that whole thing, into the whole myth of Jeff Buckley with this documentary. Now, on the subject of emotion, okay? If you were alive in the 1990s and watched any of the footage from last weekend's Oasis Manchester gig and didn't get emotional,

• 9:04Jake Brennan?

  then you are dead inside. Somebody call up the fucking mortician and get him over to your place. These guys, legends, all. I know if you saw these videos like me, you were just, I mean, the FOMO, if any of you were there, by all means, call me up, 617-906-6638. I want to hear about it. But the FOMO I had was unreal. The fucking audience screaming every word to every song for two hours straight. It's sealed this thinking for me that I've been noodling on the last couple of weeks. We want connection more than ever. Modern music, now, this isn't grandpa coming at you here. This isn't like old head hardcore guy coming at you here. This isn't, this isn't my generation. That's not what this

• 9:47Jake Brennan?

  is. Don't take it that way. Modern music doesn't connect us the way that artists that we love from the past connected us. It has nothing to do with taste, or style, or who's good, or who sucks. We simply just don't rally around bands and artists now like we did then, when there was a monoculture. When we get a peek back into what it was like then, when these songs, when these artists bring us back to that place, like what Oasis is doing right now, it's hyper intense, hyper emotional.

• 10:25Jake Brennan?

  It's not nostalgia we crave. It's the type of connection that was once everywhere, but has been obliterated by the algorithms. Okay. That siphon us off into these tidy little niche feeds, where we only connect with those who are exactly the same as us. I mean, this is why I cover artists from every genre. This is why I cover artists that I'm not particularly interested in. Because I'm curious. Because I feel like I'll get into something that will be interesting. And that will in turn help us tap into something together. And we'll have this other type of connection. I don't want to be siphoned off into my own tiny little niche feed.

• 11:10Jake Brennan?

  Okay. This connection that we're seeing at these Oasis gigs. This is also why young people are showing up in droves to these concerts with these guys who were making music before they were born, in some cases. And it's why Oasis is charting again. This type of connection is like mainlining a type of visceral excitement that, you know, non millennials, non Gen X, whatever, never experienced. It is, as Liam Gallagher once sang, electric. All right. If you've been listening to me the last few weeks, then you know I haven't been able to shut up about Chris Whitaker's We Begin at the End, the book that I was reading. I finished it last week. And before the end, I had two audible gasps.

• 11:55Jake Brennan?

  Okay. It shocked me as a reader. It made me feel like a character in a Smith song, like an outlaw from Springsteen's Nebraska. It nearly made me cry, and I don't cry easily. It's not only one of the best murder mystery slash thriller slash crime novels slash whatever the fuck I've read. It's one of the best books I've read, period. Um, I didn't want it to end. It took me probably three weeks to read, maybe four. I was reading, I was slow rolling it, man, because I didn't want it to end. That doesn't happen often. Anyways, I'm done with it. It's fantastic. You should all read it and you should tell me what you think about it. I just started reading Chuck Hogan's Gangland, by the way. Chuck Hogan wrote The Town that the Ben Affleck movie is based on. I'll be done with this book before the end of the week. I can tell it's going down hard.

• 12:40Jake Brennan?

  It's going down fast. It's like a shot of good bourbon after a big emotional night of trauma, which was, you know, the Chris Whitaker book. Hogan's book, on the other hand, straight 70s mafia perfection. It was an incredible character, one that gave me one of those audible gasps I was just talking about, but just gave it to me two chapters in, just fucking great. Love it. That's Gangland by Chuck Hogan, if you're interested. Now, what I'm listening to, you'll never believe it, but I'm listening to Jimmy Buffett. What the hell happened to your slightly edgy, smart ass, Gen X disgracin host? You ask, well, like you guys, I got curious. Now, someone, one of you, man, I wish I could remember who, so I could thank you. One of you sent me an email or a text or a DM. I don't know if we read it here on the show or whatever, or if I just responded, you know, wherever you hit me up.

• 13:26Jake Brennan?

  But one of you got in touch and you told me that the Jimmy Buffett backstory was completely contrary to the sort of smiley, blissful, escapist, parrot head, Margaritaville image that I have in my head. And boy, oh, boy, were you right. And bonus, the music, okay? Up, up and until just after the record that Margaritaville is on, the music, Jimmy Buffett's early record is pretty damn good. I mean, I'm into it. I hesitate to say that I'm having a Jimmy Buffett summer, because I'm not. I'm having a Turnstile and Keith Jarrett summer. But these, these records shocked me with how, how much I liked them. Okay. I'll be done writing this episode.

• 14:09Jake Brennan?

  I should say I'm researching all this for an episode and I'll be done. I'm writing it this week. I'll be done. Be done with it this week and it'll be out in a couple of months. And I gotta say, I love it when you guys dig up the dirt for me and point me in the right direction. So thank you. Dig, keep digging. Dig, baby, dig. I wanted to start a band once called Dream Baby Dream after the suicide song. Dig, baby, dig is good, though. All right. Maybe we can come up with shirts that say dig, baby, dig. I don't know. We'll see. All right. If you want more music recs. If you want to know how Marlon Brando influenced the music that I'm listening to this week and what specific songs I'm recommending for your July playlist, you gotta listen to the Hollywood Land Rap Party, alright? So Roseth and I get down on our movie-inspired musical recommendations. Trust me, that makes sense.

• 14:51Jake Brennan?

  Subscribe and listen to Hollywood Land wherever podcasts are available for free. Speaking of, I don't know, stuff, podcasts, podcast episodes, Marlon Brando, legend that he is, other legends, another legend, Nikki Sixx. The myths surrounding Nikki Sixx are full episode subject this week. The myth is that he died and came back to life, but we reckon with the fact that yes, that's true, man, that's true. But the real truth is that he actually died twice and came back to life, if you can believe that. Nikki's story of rock and roll animalism is so wild that we couldn't even come close to telling all the dirty details that he gets into in his autobiography.

• 15:33Jake Brennan?

  We couldn't even come close to fitting it into the full episode this week. But hey, that's what we have these bonus episodes for. And in the all-access section of this after-party, I'm going to be giving you three quick stories of Nikki Sixx, rock and roll, criminality, and debauchery that were just too damn hot for the wide feed. You gotta be a member, though, to access that content, but don't sweat it. Becoming a member only costs $5 a month, less than a cup of coffee these days. What's that all about? Go to disgracelandpod.com/membership to sign up via Patreon or Apple. You can sign up directly on Patreon or Apple, too. And that membership, it not only gets you the extra content in these bonus episodes, but it gets you ad-free listening in an extra full episode per month and access to me and your fellow discos chopping it up in the Disgraceland community chat on Patreon.

• 16:16Jake Brennan?

  Plus, like I said, this week, get to hear three extra tales of Nikki Sixx madness. Too wild for the full episode. Sign up, become a member today, disgracelandpod.com/membership. Alright, coming up after this episode, we are rewinding to our Pink Floyd story. If you want to know the true depths and cause of Sid Barrett's madness and hear a pretty funny story about the Who's Pete Townsend tripping his balls off, then listen to the Pink Floyd episode coming up after this after-party. After Floyd, on Tuesday, we have our new episode on Waylon Jennings. Now, if you thought Waylon was messed up, you're gonna want to hear the story about the lengths Waylon Jennings had to go to to hide his drugs from his roommate, who was even more messed up than he was. Now, that roommate-

• 17:02Jake Brennan?

  Was of course Johnny Cash. And this begs the question that I want you to be thinking about when you listen to the Waylon Jennings episode next. This question is, who was the most punk rock of the country music singers? All right. I want to know 617-906-6638. Voicemail and text. Leave me a voicemail. Send me a text. You might hear your answer played on next week's after party. Hit me up at disgracelandpod.com. Surefire way to get me to respond to you is to respond in the Patreon chat to this question. Who was the most punk rock of the country singers? But of course, the old telephone works as well, as do the, the apps. At disgracelandpod on social, [email protected]. If you

• 17:47Jake Brennan?

  want to email me, I got to take a quick break. Coming up next, the music, the musicians, the crimes, the stories you want to talk about with your voicemails, texts, DMs, and more.

• 18:08Speaker 01

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 18:38Speaker 00

  Sponsored by GSK, the makers of Extenture, Depamocumab ULAA. If your asthma keeps interrupting, it may be time to try something else. Extenture is an ultra-long-acting prescription maintenance treatment for severe asthma, eosinophilic type, ages 12 and older. It isn't for sudden breathing problems. Extenture is the first and only add-on treatment that can help deliver protection from asthma attacks with two doses a year. Just one dose every six months. That's a lot of time for everything in between. Serious allergic reactions can occur. Get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. Don't change or stop medicines, including steroids, unless told by your doctor. Report if you have a parasitic infection, common cold, sinus infection, inflammation in the

• 19:23Speaker 00

  nose, flu or flulike symptoms, joint pain, or sore throat may occur. Carry on with fewer attacks and ask your doctor about Extensor. Learn more at extensor.com or call 1-833-393-3678.

• 19:50Jake Brennan?

  All right, Discos, we're back. Listen, Apple Podcast users, you know the drill. Make sure you get auto downloads turned on so you don't miss any of our episodes. 617-906-6638. You know where I'm at. Same place I'm at every week, in the phone booth, the one across the hall, hanging on the telephone, waiting for you to send me a voicemail, waiting for you to send me a text, because you guys know better than anyone that music history does not have to be boring, okay? You got a line on these insane stories, just like I got a line on these insane stories, and you dig, and you call, and you dig, and you text, and you dig, and you DM, all right? Pete Milan, one of our Patreon chat members, hit us up, hit me up over in the Patreon chat publicly with this incredible story last week about David Bowie getting banned

• 20:30Jake Brennan?

  from SNL, similar to The Replacements, last week's full episode subject, getting banned from SNL, which I didn't know. I didn't know that about David Bowie. And this was in the, in the 80s, I believe, might have been early 90s. He sent me a link to the article. Fascinating to me. What's up with Lorne Michaels, just like, "You're banned," you know what I mean? Like, it just strikes me as, ah, it's like the dude, you know, the fucking kid in your neighborhood who you let play in the, in the football game because he had the better football, but he's really a pain in the ass, and then something didn't go his way, and he took the fucking ball home. That's what Lorne Michaels reminds me of here, which is, "You're banned."

• 21:11Jake Brennan?

  I mean, Elvis Costello, okay? The Replacements, David Bowie. What are you doing, man? Who else? We need a running list of people banned from Saturday Night Live. Anyways, my point, Pete Milan, one of you guys gave me that story, and I appreciate it. Let's, let's get into some calls here. 617-906-6638. You guys want to call me with any incredible stories from music history? You can do that. You can call me. You can answer the question of the week from last week, which was, what was the question? Oh, yeah. Which hair metal bands are you, are you most into? You know, if, which, which is the one, the one that, especially if you're not a hair metal person. Lot of, lot of incoming from you guys on wanting to hear some hair metal episodes.

• 21:56Jake Brennan?

  I kind of use this Motley Crue part two, Nikki's six episode to get a bead on, on who exactly from the hair metal scene you guys are into with the question of the week. Let's check out Jim from the 318.

• 22:06Speaker 03

  Hey Jake, this is Jim from the 318. Absolutely love the show, man. Regarding the hair metal question, I was primarily an eighties and nineties college rock, alternative rock, whatever you want to call it guy. Going to high school in the mid to late eighties, I couldn't avoid hearing a lot of hair metal. And I liked a lot of it. Particularly loved the band Rats. They just had a really catchy sound, wrote really memorable songs. They had an amazing guitar duo with late, great Robin Crosby and Warren DiMartini. Vocalist Steven Piercy had a kind of snotty semi punk tone to his voice. And Bobby Blockson was my kind of drummer, just a straight ahead bachelor who still knew how to make the songs stand out.

• 22:50Speaker 03

  So yeah, there are a lot of other hair metal bands I will admit to have loved. The Rats kind of rose to the top. And I'm responding late to the previous week's question. Two other bands I thought should have been huge were the Northeast, Mission of Burma, and the Northwest, Posies. Mission of Burma was so far ahead of the curve in their sound. It's just amazing when you go back and listen to their early stuff. And the Posies with that, those incredible harmonies mixed with the fuzzy guitar, they should also have been at the top of the heap. Anyway, man, love the show. Can't wait to hear it every week. Rock and roll.

• 23:27Jake Brennan?

  Jim, it's interesting you bring up Rat. I saw Nikki's six post the other day on Instagram and he, he just, it was kind of sad. He had, there's a picture of him and Robin Crosby and he just said, I miss my friend, Robin. And I don't know, it was just, there were all these great pictures of him and Robin Crosby together. Getting up to no good, I'm sure. I wasn't a big Rat guy, but I get it. I totally get it. And I think there's actually a Rat episode there. I think Robin's death was a very sad, very sad chapter for music history and it'd be cool to get into that story. All right, let's check out the 251 on Jimmy Buffett.

• 24:01Speaker 04

  Hey Jake, been rocking with you from day one. Uh, just heard yesterday, the day before, you're gonna have a Jimmy Buffett episode. Just wanted to give you my two cents. I'm in LA, lower Alabama. Uh, never, like you, not a big fan. Didn't hate him, but just kind of the music or Metalhead. Anyway, went to work for his sister, has a restaurant, now or had a restaurant, now I was four or five. I got to meet Jimmy a couple of times. Um, I was an English teacher for years, so I was very impressed with his writing ability, wrote a couple of books. Uh, some of his songs, the only ones that, uh, what's it, a Dead Poet, Life of the Dead Poet, or whatever's great. Love in the Library is great. Come

• 24:42Speaker 04

  Monday's great. I didn't care for all the Margaritaville stuff. Anyway, met the dude a couple of times, had dinner with him once. Super chill guy. Asked him, uh, if he hadn't done music, what would he do? He was gonna be a history teacher. He, uh, I think he even has a degree in history from, uh, University of Southern Mississippi. Anyway, uh, well, you did mention you read a book by Tom McGwain. I'm sure you know this through your research, but he is Jimmy's brother-in-law, married to his sister Lori, who I met, and Tom, uh, his sister Lori was a, uh, world-class equest- equestrian, equestrian, and McGwain's first wife was Margot Kidder from The Supermanons. Anyway, love your show, brother. Uh, can't wait to hear the Buffett stuff. Take care. Rock and roll.

• 25:25Jake Brennan?

  Gotta love the Metalhead showing up for Jimmy Buffett. And you know, in the research, I knew nothing about Jimmy Buffett before researching this episode. One thing is abundantly clear in this research, and that is that Jimmy Buffett was a great fucking guy. Uh, hands down. Like, I, I kept having this feeling in, in researching Jimmy Buffett, this, this feeling of, oh, man, I wish this guy was still alive. And he's just so, so effortlessly charming in an authentic way. He's always smiling, or was always smiling, I should say. And just seems like a really great dude. I don't know that he would have been a history teacher.

• 26:04Jake Brennan?

  I think he had, it was tough trying to get this into the episode. I'm still writing it. I'm trying to make this point. He had this real entrepreneurial spirit that I totally related to because of how he grew up in Alabama with his, sorry, in Mississippi, I should say. He was born in Alabama, grew up in Mississippi and just who his parents were, very hardworking, very, very kind of blue collar people. And obviously we see that come through with his career. So I don't know if he would have been a history teacher. That seems like a stretch. Maybe that's just something he said, but I don't, what do I know? You met him. I didn't meet him. As for Tom McWayne, I'm kind of, I'm kind of more impressed that you met Tom McWayne than I am you met Jimmy Buffett. That's, that's incredible. And yes, I did know

• 26:46Jake Brennan?

  about him being Jimmy's brother-in-law and I did, I even knew about Margot Kidder, but I did not know that until I researched Jimmy Buffett. So thanks for the call. Appreciate it. Hope you dig Buffett episode coming up soon. Will not be what you expect. Won't be what any of you guys suspect. All right, let's check out the 512.

• 27:02Speaker 05

  Okay, it's Drew in the 512, Austin, Texas. Hey first, a shout out to all my neighbors who are digging out. It's been a rough couple of weeks. So some love to them. But just got done listening to your Guns N' Roses episodes. Fantastic as always. Wondering if you've read Duff McKagan's memoir. It's so easy. If not, definitely recommend it. I read a lot of memoirs, rock and roll musicians and his is heads and shoulders above the rest. It's not your typical, typical read. Smart, inspiring, well-written. Highly recommend.

• 27:43Speaker 05

  Duff McKagan. It's so easy. Keep, keep up the good work. Love your pod.

• 27:49Jake Brennan?

  512, yes. Been praying for all you folks in Texas. Hoping that you get some relief. Those of you who were affected from the storm, your neighbors down there, 512. As for Duff McKagan's memoir, I have not read it. I believe it came out after I, I researched the Guns N' Roses episode.

• 28:11Jake Brennan?

  But I've always known Duff McKagan to be a smart, smart dude, one of the smarter rock and rollers. So it doesn't surprise me that his memoir is great, as you say. Last time I went to South by Southwest, not the last time I went to Austin, but the last time I went to South by Southwest, it's with Bodega Girls, my band at the time, and we were eating in a nice restaurant, not something we did often. And Duff was in there at a table with a bunch of people. It was a really nice place. And he was just so fucking cool looking. You know, you know, those guys who are just older and cool looking, and you're just like, damn, man, how do you do it? How do you maintain that that glow, dude, that rock and roll glow? And you don't get that rock and roll stink? You know what I'm saying? It's tough for old guys, old rock and rollers, but he's pulling it off.

• 28:55Jake Brennan?

  617-906-6638. You guys want to hit me up on anything under the Music History Son, you can do so. Let's see, let's do this text from the 412. Hey Jake, my name is Tom. I'm not the best disco. Sometimes takes me a few weeks to listen, but I'm all caught up. Greatest hair metal band? Well, you can't deny Motley Crew. Got into them early and eventually led me to harder thrash metal and punk. But I did have a hairband era and one of my favorites was slash is Dio. Rest in peace, Ronnie. I always appreciate your listener's suggestions. Someone recommended Fanny after the Go-Go's episode, and they were really good. Yeah, that's right. Fanny. Forgot about them. Matt Bowden, his head almost exploded when he found out that I'd never heard them before. And that came from you guys, the

• 29:39Jake Brennan?

  disco. So thank you. Like I said, you guys know where the good shit is. Motley Crue is a gateway drug to other thrash metal. I never thought of it that way. But yeah, I can see how that would happen for you. Dio, what a voice. Honestly. I work out to Rainbow in the Dark at least once a week. So good. Also, Dio, New Hampshire boy. Thanks for the text, 412. Let's go to the 304.

• 30:04Jake Brennan?

  Text in, "Simply put, Nebraska better than Blonde on Blonde." Whoa, whoa, easy there, Cochise. Both masterpieces, but come on. You know, did I say that Nebraska was better than Blonde on Blonde? I think I did, and I think I stand by that. And I read this text just because he called me Cochise, and I really think that's cool, and I wanted to get it out on record. Okay, let's go to the 972 texting in. "I beg you," three exclamation points. "Please, please do an episode or two on the SoCal band Pennywise." "You could do several just on the lead guitarist Fletcher alone,

• 30:44Jake Brennan?

  and their original bassist, Jason Matthew Thurst, died by accidental gunshot. Fletcher took Adam Carolla hostage live on the air in Los Angeles." What? Seriously? How do I not know that story? All right, you got it. Pennywise episode coming up. I love it. Great text. 617-906-6638. You want to hit me up with this week's question of the week, which let me see if I can remember. It's going to be about Waylon Jennings. Yes, yes, yes. And the question of the week is, "Who among the country singers was the most punk?" Okay, was it Waylon? I don't know. 617-906-6638. You tell me. Voicemail and text. Uh, also email [email protected].

• 31:29Jake Brennan?

  Peter Archaki, I'm most certainly pronouncing that incorrectly, and I apologize, Peter. Subject, David Johansson. Thanks for the episode eulogizing the great David Johansson. "The Dolls are tremendously underrated. They were the first American glam band, the first punk band, the first hairband that paved the way for the Ramones, Kiss, Poison, Motley Crue, and on and on. Influential and important in many ways. How they are not in the Hall of Fame is a travesty. I especially liked your description of Johansson as being symbolic of New York City. He was the epitome of New York in the 70s. He will be missed. I know this comment is a little late, but I wanted you to know that your episode on him was greatly appreciated. Keep up the good work, as I enjoy both Disgraceland and Hollywoodland." Peter, thanks so much.

• 32:13Jake Brennan?

  Happy we hit you with that one. Yeah, I mean, you kind of said it all. They, I, you're absolutely right. Ramones, Kiss, Poison, Motley Crue. None of them would exist without the New York Dolls. How many of them are in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? Ramones are. Pretty sure Kiss is. Is Motley Crue? I don't think Motley Crue is. Is Motley Crue? They probably are. Poison's not. So, New York Dolls influences, let's just say, three out of four of these bands in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, yet they're not in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. And it's not like they just like, kind of influenced these bands. I mean, Gene Simmons basically stole his, the whole fucking thing from New York Dolls.

• 32:54Jake Brennan?

  Motley Crue as well. I mean, listen to the part one episode we just released. Direct influence on Nicky Six. And the Ramones, forget about it. All right. So, great, great email. Appreciate you, Peter. Thank you. I'll have more on the New York Dolls later when we get into the vault. If you guys got something to say, don't sit on it, okay? Hit me up. Hit me up like Peter. Hit me up like the rest of the callers, the rest of the texts, your voices. They prompt me to dig. They, they prompt me to try and uncover these stories that we've been talking about. Get buried. The real stories, okay? Sometimes they're stories I'm not even aware of. I'm not even aware that they're out there, okay? And sometimes these are stories with narratives that are just too convenient, too, too sanitized, too, too biopic-ish.

• 33:38Jake Brennan?

  You know, not nearly as interesting and entertaining as the truth. And I love it when you guys call and you point me in the right direction. So, thank you very much and keep them coming. Listen, guys, uh, I want to do something different here. I want to switch gears. I want to dive into our 60 second sports rant in under 30 seconds. But wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, Matt. Don't start the buzzer beater countdown just yet. I have news. News. Big news. We have a new sponsor for our 60 second sports rant in under 30 seconds. And that is the good folks at Five Hour Energy. The 60 second sports rant in under 30 seconds is now sponsored by Five Hour Energy's new transfusion flavor. Inspired by golf's unofficial cocktail, it has hints of grape, lime, and ginger. No alcohol needed. Head to your local retailer or www.fivehourenergy.com to order yours.

• 34:25Jake Brennan?

  Today, all right. Now, listen, I live in golf central. Okay, I live in the golf capital of the world. Actually, I'm surrounded by golfers. Like, literally, I go to the coffee shop and some of the biggest pro golfers in the world are there. Okay. Everyone in my family golfs. I sadly, until recently, did not golf, but I've started. Now, you can't keep me down, man. I'm in it mainly for the old school fashion. Sure, if I'm being honest, the big hats and the knickers and all that. No. But I gotta say, I get why people spend 25% of their lives on beautifully manicured golf courses because it's fun and obsessive, which, you know, here in disgracing, we know a thing or two about being obsessive. And yeah, my brother in law, the former D1 golfer, is just gonna have to hang tight

• 35:07Jake Brennan?

  and let me, his Jay mask is look and feel the pain partner for the day, get a stroke on. Five Hour Energy's new transfusion flavor helps me do that. It tastes incredible. It's not too sweet. It's bright. It goes well with the sun and the sweat and the sweet smell of maybe just maybe getting under par. Okay, the under par part is a stretch, but you get my point. 18 holes and Five Hour Energy's new transfusion flavor go great together. Five Hour Energy in general never lets me down, even if my putt does. All right, Matt, I'm ready for my rant. Give me the countdown. All right, Red Sox. Listen, Boston Red Sox must have been listening to the after party last week because they took my advice and they did what I said. They went and they became more interesting. What did they do?

• 35:50Jake Brennan?

  They went on a tear. Okay, it's up to 10 games out, 10 wins before the All-Star break, 10 straight, I should say, before the All-Star break. Now, now, listen, why do we think that is? What changed since their mediocre, underperforming play for the basement of the AL East? They got rid of Raffi Devers, just like I said they should. And now, they need to keep it up after the All-Star break. They gotta nab another starter before the deadline and put the Yanks in the rearview where they belong. Let's go, Boston. Don't sleep on this advice, Bresl. You know I'm right, just like I was right about Devers. Shitty clubhouse guys aren't worth it. Good pitching beats good hitting all day long. Go get us a stud before the deadline. All right, Matt, how'd I do? That beat it?

• 36:26Speaker 06

  Jake, I gotta give you credit for consistency. Just like the Red Sox, you're on a streak here. It's two weeks in a row, 47 seconds. So, you know, you gotta keep training, keep working at it. You're gonna get it down to 30. Keep it up.

• 36:41Jake Brennan?

  All right, that was a 60 second sports rant in under 30 seconds sponsored by Five Hour Energy's new transfusion flavor with as much caffeine as a premium cup of coffee and with zero sugar and a compact bottle. Five Hour Energy is ready when and where you are, even if you're not a golfer like me. So grab your crew, get your energy and tea off with Five Hour Energy's new transfusion flavor, available in stores or online at www.fivehourenergy.com. All right, despite the energy I brought to that rant, I do need a little pick me up. So I'm gonna take a break. I'm gonna hit that fivehourenergy.com transfusion flavor. It is mid afternoon. The sun is shining. I might not be on a golf course, guys, but I'm here and I

• 37:24Jake Brennan?

  am definitely hitting under par in this episode. All right. And so are you guys. Take a quick break. I'll be back in a flash.

• 37:43Jake Brennan?

  All right, guys, we are back here in the after party. It is hot as blazes in my studio today. It's because I got these lights on. I gotta shut them off. It gets hot in here. In the studio, I record in two different spots. I record at my desk, like I'm doing right now for the after party. For the full episodes, I record in a booth, in a whisper room booth, which is a pretty tight quarters and it's completely soundproof and it gets really, really hot in there. And, you know, I'm gonna share a little bit here for you. So I, this was about, I don't know, two weeks ago, I was recording. It's a really, really, really, really hot day. And the more I went into the booth and the more I came out to sort of like get a water in between takes and go

• 38:28Jake Brennan?

  back in the, I dropped some clothing is what I'm saying. Okay. And I got down to near, near nothing by the end of it. Okay. It took me like, you know, it takes me like 30 minutes, 40 minutes to record these things. Really hot. Again, really hot. And my son walks in the room and he's, he's, he's like, why, what's happening? This is my seven year old son. And I explained to him what's going on, you know, not a big deal, whatever. And fast forward to A week later, we're at a dinner party, a family dinner party, catered by a chef. And we're at these people's house, this house of this, of this couple that we did not know. And it's not just me and my wife and my kids.

• 39:11Jake Brennan?

  It's me, my wife, my kids and my in-laws. And it's this family and their, their children who are a college and high school age and one adult. So there's about 12 of us all sitting at this one table. And it's a great meal, a course meal and very much, you know, assigned seating, like the whole thing, you know? And we've never met any of these folks before. They're friends of my father-in-law's. And I gotta say, my sons are killing it, you know? They're making conversation and this is the type of thing where like, it's one of those dinner parties where we're sitting at a big round table. And for the most part, you know, one person was speaking at a time. There wasn't a lot of sort of side conversations going on.

• 39:56Jake Brennan?

  There, there was, it wasn't so uptight that it was just like I mentioned, but for the most, for, for a good portion of it, it was just like, you know, one, one person would talk. It was very, it was very conversational, but it was also very formal is my point. And I was so proud of my sons, both of them, you know, so proud, like, like they're eating, you know, turtle soup and they're eating stuff that like, they never would, would, would eat, you know, crab cakes. They'd never eat if I tried to get them either. They're just, they're really trying their best and they're trying to make conversation. Again, 11 and seven years old. And, uh, you know, my, my oldest, you know, he, he brings up the fact that, uh, you know, they, they cloned a dire wolf. It was a very interesting point and a really great conversational point for this dinner.

• 40:39Jake Brennan?

  And I, I couldn't have been more proud of them. And then my youngest, my seven-year-old, he takes the cue and he's like, uh, I gotta say something interesting. And this is after, you know, this is after we did the whole, you know, what do you do for a living? Blah, blah, blah, blah. And, uh, Willum goes dead quiet, dead quiet point in the conversation. He goes, My dad records his podcast naked and like total fucking church fart. No, everybody stops talking except our family who just bursts out laughing. The other family is not laughing at all. They've never met us before. They think like I'm some psychopath, just, um, yeah. One of those moments anyways, I wanted to share that with you.

• 41:24Jake Brennan?

  I don't know why I just did, I feel, you know, I can anyhow. That's a thing and that happened. Here we go. Okay, what are we doing? The Hollywood land minute this week on the Hollywood land show over in the Hollywood land feed. We get into the iconic Marlon Brando. And if you want to hear a Marlon Brando story that you likely have never heard before, then you must go to the Hollywood land feed and subscribe and follow and listen. And if you want more conversation like this one than I'm giving you right here, but with a little more back and forth, a little, little more conversational. Me and my guys, Zeth are over in the Hollywood land feed every week in the rap party, doing our thing. And we get into some great music recommendations, which is one of the highlights of my week. If I'm being honest, Matt, why don't you go ahead, play these guys a clip?

• 42:11Jake Brennan?

  Okay, Marlon Brando made me think of Marlon Jackson, brother of Tito, Jackie Jermaine and Michael, the five in the Jackson five. Now, Marlon Jackson has a long, I don't want to say illustrious, but he does have a career in music and I am recommending none of that. However, at one point, at one point, I believe in 1983, Marlon Jackson produced an album by soul singer Betty Wright. Betty Wright is incredible. The album that Marlon Jackson produced, I don't know if it's incredible. I've never heard it, but I have heard, I love the way you love from 1972 by Betty Wright.

• 42:56Jake Brennan?

  And it features the excellent song, Cleanup Woman. Okay, so Marlon Brando got me Marlon Jackson, got me Betty Wright, gets the listeners Cleanup Woman as the song for my recommendation this week. Have you heard Cleanup Woman, by the way?

• 43:13Speaker 07

  Yes, I have, I have heard Cleanup Woman. There was a, and there was a great compilation, I think Rhino put out. Ryan or somebody back in like the early 2000s, there were like three lesser known soul R and B female singers, Candy Satan, Betty Wright, and there was a third. And they put out these incredible compilation albums. And that's where I first heard about Betty Wright. Anyways.

• 43:35Jake Brennan?

  All right, that is Hollywood land. That's a Hollywood and true crime podcast that we got going on. You want to check that out? You want to subscribe? Get over there and do so today before we run out. I don't know what I'm talking about. All right. Um, listen, five bucks. I went through this earlier. Five bucks is going to get you access to not just ad free listening here in disgraceland and Hollywood land. Five bucks isn't just going to get you that. It's not going to just get you that plus an extra episode of disgraceland. It's also going to get you more of this here bonus episode. And this week in particular, you're not going to want to miss out because I'm going to give you three stories about Nikki six that were just too off the fucking charts for the full episode for the wide feed. Okay. So that's coming up. Go to disgracelandpod.com/membership. Become a disgraceland member today.

• 44:26Speaker 01

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A plus by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 44:55Speaker 00

  Sponsored by GSK, the makers of Extenture, Depamocumab ULAA. If your asthma keeps interrupting, it may be time to try something else. Extenture is an ultra-long-acting prescription maintenance treatment for severe asthma, eosinophilic type, ages 12 and older. It isn't for sudden breathing problems. Extenture is the first and only add-on treatment that can help deliver protection from asthma attacks with two doses a year. Just one dose every six months. That's a lot of time for everything in between. Serious allergic reactions can occur. Get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. Don't change or stop medicines, including steroids, unless told by your doctor. Report

• 45:37Speaker 00

  if you have a parasitic infection, common cold, sinus infection, inflammation in the nose, flu or flulike symptoms, joint pain, or sore throat may occur. Carry on with fewer attacks and ask your doctor about Extensure. Learn more at extensure.com or call 1-833-393-3678.

• 46:03Jake Brennan?

  All right, we are back. Let's dip in quickly to some of the subjects that we mentioned on this show that have been featured in Disgrace Land before. Jeff Buckley, we talked about Jeff Buckley earlier in the B block and we have an episode on Jeff Buckley. And if you want to hear about Jeff Buckley's incredible diverse group of influences and you want to hear more about how he died sadly, then you got to check this episode out. It's a heartbreaker and I'm sure it'll be a good primer to the doc that is coming out. I believe in August is when the documentary is released. We mentioned the New York Dolls and in that New York Dolls episode, we get into how it's kind of the opposite of the Jeff Buckley one. We get into if you want to hear about how they influenced Kiss, how they influenced the Ramones. If you want to hear how the caller said David Johansson was sort

• 46:48Jake Brennan?

  of the embodiment of New York City and you want to hear about the arrest and some all around, you know, rock and roll violence, then you know, that New York Dolls episode is waiting for you. We mentioned Bob Dylan and if you just got a hankering for some Dylan, you want to know why or why not, he may or may not have been involved with the whole Watergate scandal back in the early seventies with Nixon and all, then hey, Bob Dylan, part two, it awaits. We also got Bob Dylan, part one, and that one's going to disrupt the myth of the motorcycle accident and give you the lowdown on what we think actually happened. Matt will have the information as he does every week on these episodes in the show notes of this bonus episode. He'll make it easier for you to find Jeff Buckley, New York Dolls, Bob Dylan. All right, let's recap, shall we? Number one, this

• 47:31Jake Brennan?

  week's full episode on Nikki six is available for you right now. Go check that out. Number two, we are rewinding this week with Pink Floyd. Number three, up next week, Waylon Jennings. That's right. Number four, over in the Hollywoodland feed, go check out that Marlon Brando episode. Check out the rap party with me and Zeth. Number five, 617-906-6638. Voicemail and text. DM me at disgracelandpod on Instagram, Tik Tok, Facebook, X, disgracelandpod, at. Gmail.com to email me. Your voices help me uncover what gets buried. Your takes, they propel me into the dark corners of music history. So keep them coming. Dig, baby, dig. All right. Dig, baby, dig. Now that the night is over. Yes, Michael Hutchins. Thank you. Number six, do not forget this goes, this isn't just content. It's a community,

• 48:14Jake Brennan?

  a community of the obsessed. No one cares about music, books, records, and the crime and grime that ties it all together like you do. And well, that's a disgrace. All right. December 23, 1987, the date of Nikki Sixx's first death. Does that make sense? Sort of. Kinda. Not really. I don't care. Here's what we were listening to in America on December 23, 1987, from the billboard charts. Number one, Faith, George Michael. Last week, one. Peak position, one. Weeks on chart, 10. Number two, So Emotional, last week, three. Peak position, two. Weeks on chart, nine. Number three, Is This Love,

• 48:59Jake Brennan?

  Whitesnake. Last week, two. Peak position, two. Weeks on chart, 10. Number four, Got My Mind Set On You, George Harrison. Last week, five. Peak position, four. Weeks on chart, 10. Number five, Shake Your Love, Debbie Gibson. Last week, four. Peak position, five. Weeks on chart, 10. Number six.

• 49:36Speaker 06

  Quit talking and start mixing.

• 49:41Speaker 01

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 50:10Jake Brennan?

  Hey guys, time to dust off your detective skills while unwinding in the Caribbean on Virgin Voyages' second true crime voyages. Back by popular demand, this five-night, adults-only escape set sail March 20th, 2027, to Grand Turk in the Beach Club at Bimini. The difference between this year and last will be that I will be on the cruise this year, along with Zeth, and he and I will be taping a live version of Disgrace Land, along with podcast hosts from Exactly Right's Buried Bones, Podcast of the Year Award winners, Wisecrack, and other fan favorites. Get on this cruise with us, guys, and enjoy live podcast recordings, behind-the-scenes storytelling, exclusive meet-and-greets, and immersive

• 50:52Jake Brennan?

  true crime programming throughout this one-of-a-kind voyage. Head over to www.virginvoyages.com/truecrime to secure your spot.

• 51:01Speaker 00

  Sponsored by GSK, the makers of Extentur, Depamocumab ULAa. If your asthma keeps interrupting, it may be time to try something else. Extentur is an ultra-long-acting prescription-maintenance treatment for severe asthma, eosinophilic type, ages 12 and older. It isn't for sudden breathing problems. Extentur is the first and only add-on treatment that can help deliver protection from asthma attacks with two doses a year. Just one dose every six months. That's a lot of time for everything in between. Serious allergic reactions can occur. Get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. Don't change or stop medicines, including steroids, unless told by your doctor. Report if you have a parasitic infection. Common cold, sinus infection, inflammation in the

• 51:46Speaker 00

  nose, flu or flulike symptoms, joint pain or sore throat may occur. Carry on with fewer attacks and ask your doctor about Extentur. Learn more at extentur.com or call 1-833-393-3678.