5 Steps To Create A Beautiful Partnership & Find Love TODAY [MASTERCLASS] EP 1433

In today’s Masterclass we explore what makes or breaks a successful relationship. Whether you’re looking for love, friendship or repairing a broken bond, there are fundamental truths that parallel each relationship in your life. Now, let’s dive in and examine how we can become better partners, friends, brothers, sisters and create abundant love throughout our lives. DeVon Franklin is an award-winning producer, New York Times bestselling author and renowned motivational speaker he has made a commitment to inspire people around the world. Esther Perel is a Psychotherapist and New York Times bestselling author. She is recognized as one of today’s most insightful and original voices on modern relationships. Fluent in nine languages, she helms a therapy practice in New York City and serves as an organizational consultant for Fortune 500 companies around the world. Jillian Turecki is a certified relationship coach, teacher and writer who for 20 years has taught others how to transform their relationships with themselves. Marisa Peer is a world renowned speaker, Rapid Transformational Therapy trainer and best-selling author. She has nearly three decades of experience as a therapist and has been named Best British Therapist by Men's Health magazine and featured in Tatler's Guide to Britain's 250 Best Doctors. Marisa uses her experience of treating clients including rock stars, CEOs, elite Olympic athletes, royalty and Oscar-winning actors to inform her life-changing speeches and lectures.https://lewishowes.com/mindset - Order a copy of my new book The Greatness Mindset today! In this episode you will learn,How to determine if there is alignment and compatibility in your relationship. The importance of loving yourself before loving others. How to assess who we really are. How to develop a healthy relationship with your own expectations. What keeps a relationship alive. How play is essential in relationships and in life. How to become aware of your own unconscious patterns in relationships. The importance of connection. For more information go to www.lewishowes.com/1433 Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  My friend, I am such a big believer that your mindset is everything. It can really dictate if your life has meaning, has value, and you feel fulfilled, or if you feel exhausted, drained, and like you're never going to be enough. Your mindset is everything. And our brand new book, The Greatness Mindset, just hit the New York Times Bestseller back-to-back weeks. And I'm so excited to hear from so many of you who've bought the book, who've read it, and finished it already, and are getting incredible results from the lessons in the book. If you haven't got a copy yet, you'll learn how to build a plan for greatness through powerful exercises and toolkits designed to propel your life forward. This is the book I wish I had when I was 20, struggling, trying to figure out life

• 0:44Lewis Howes?

  10 years ago, at 30, trying to figure out transitions in my life, and a book I'm glad I have today for myself. Make sure to get a copy at lewishouse.com/2023mindset to get your copy today. Again, lewishouse.com/2023mindset to get a copy today. Also, the book is on Audible now, so you can get it on audiobook as well over there also.

• 1:10DeVon Franklin?

  Because so often, we're so ready to point the finger, "Oh, this person's not giving as much as me." Oh, it's like, no, no, no. If life is a mirror, what is the mirror reflecting? What is a relationship reflecting? And oftentimes, in my experience, relationship.

• 1:22Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 1:46Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to this special masterclass. We've brought some of the top experts in the world to help you unlock the power of your life through this specific theme today. It's going to be powerful, so let's go ahead and dive in.

• 2:04Lewis Howes?

  How do we learn to love ourselves so much that it doesn't matter what our partner does or doesn't do?

• 2:10DeVon Franklin?

  Oh man, Lord have mercy.

• 2:11Lewis Howes?

  Like, is there a way where you can fall in love with yourself without a sense of ego?

• 2:15DeVon Franklin?

  Yes.

• 2:16Lewis Howes?

  And like, I'm God, but?

• 2:18DeVon Franklin?

  Yes.

• 2:18Lewis Howes?

  Love yourself so much that it doesn't matter if your partner meets your expectations, communicated or uncommunicated, whether they're supporting you in the way that you want or not, whether they're proud of you or not, is there a way that we could do that? Or should we be expecting something out of our relationship in return? You know, either way?

• 2:39DeVon Franklin?

  Bro, listen, listen, man, you know, listen, my views on this may be a little contrarian, so I'm just gonna speak my truth.

• 2:48Lewis Howes?

  Let's hear it, yeah, yeah.

• 2:52DeVon Franklin?

  So I'll answer the love question in a minute of self, but I want to hit the piece that you just hit, which is the expectation, right?

• 2:58Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 3:00DeVon Franklin?

  I personally believe that if you give to get in a relationship, you are on thin ice and the sun is coming out. Because...

• 3:17DeVon Franklin?

  Right, right, right, because again, what happens is, you're not free. You're not free, you're not actually giving from your heart because that's what you want to do. You're giving from manipulation.

• 3:33Lewis Howes?

  To get something in return.

• 3:34DeVon Franklin?

  Because to get something in return. So you're treating that relationship like the stock market, right? Well, yeah, if I give a certain amount of money to a certain stock or portfolio, I can expect a certain return.

• 3:44Lewis Howes?

  Hopefully it goes up.

• 3:45DeVon Franklin?

  Right, hopefully it goes up, right? But that's the dynamic, you know? But relationship is not stocks, man. That's somebody's heart, that's somebody's life. And so, when you're investing in someone with the hope that they'll do something for you, you're messed up.

• 4:02Lewis Howes?

  What if that person never contributes in the way you contribute, let's say? After years, is it the right relationship still?

• 4:10DeVon Franklin?

  This is great.

• 4:11Lewis Howes?

  Should you let go of the expectation, well, I don't need that in return?

• 4:14DeVon Franklin?

  Great, so here's how I think you answered it, and I want to hit the love part too. So...

• 4:19DeVon Franklin?

  I believe everyone should give freely from how they feel and want to feel. And they give to that person because that's what's in their heart to do. Over time, it's not an indictment on that person if that person isn't giving as much. It just may be revelatory about compatibility. Right? It's like, oh, okay, got it. You know, the person that's giving, right? I'm in a relationship, you're in a relationship because you have needs. You want those needs to be met. Oh, okay, I'm seeing there's an imbalance, right? Like, I feel great about everything I'm giving, but I also recognize that there's some needs that are not being met. And maybe there's some compatibility issues we need to talk about.

• 5:02Lewis Howes?

  Or you can communicate about it and see.

• 5:04DeVon Franklin?

  That's right. That's exactly right. Like, hey, you know, look, I have needs. I'm in a relationship because I want people to contribute to these needs. Like, I'm gonna be fine no matter what, but I'm in this relationship because I actually love the idea of someone else, you know, contributing to my well-being. So you have to assess it and see if there's compatibility and alignment, not pointing the finger. Because so often, we're so ready to point the finger. Oh, this person's not giving as much as me. Oh, it's like, no, no, no. If life is a mirror, what is the mirror reflecting? What is a relationship reflecting? And oftentimes, in my experience, relationships are the greatest teachers

• 5:46Lewis Howes?

  Greatest.

• 5:47DeVon Franklin?

  of who we are.

• 5:48Lewis Howes?

  Greatest.

• 5:49DeVon Franklin?

  Right? Who we are and who we aren't, okay? Like, like, and too often, people run from difficult relationships. I believe that you should, whatever the lesson is you gotta get about you, before you break up.

• 6:02Lewis Howes?

  Heal it within the relationship first.

• 6:04DeVon Franklin?

  There you go. Because then you take that healing to the next relationship. If your relationship is revealing your own brokenness and your issues that you gotta deal with, and then you're saying to the other person, oh, it's your fault, that brokenness and that healing that you didn't do, you're taking it wherever you go. That's gonna be the constant. It's gonna repeat.

• 6:23Lewis Howes?

  So what should we do?

• 6:24DeVon Franklin?

  Yes.

• 6:25Lewis Howes?

  If we're in an environment of a relationship that is not working, that people are being triggered, and there's arguments, and fights, and frustration, and you're just not able to see eye to eye, you're not facing the same direction. We shouldn't say, "It's your fault. I don't deserve this. Peace out."

• 6:42DeVon Franklin?

  No, no.

• 6:44Lewis Howes?

  What should we do internally, whether we're with that person long-term, or after three, six, 12 months, we realize this isn't the right fit, but I'm going out in a different way?

• 6:53DeVon Franklin?

  Yeah, so it goes back to the original question in this section, which was, "How do you love yourself?" So there's a scripture that says that the whole Bible can be summed up in, "You know, love the Lord God, your God, with all your heart, and love your neighbor as yourself."

• 7:16Lewis Howes?

  What does that mean?

• 7:17DeVon Franklin?

  This is so interesting.

• 7:18Lewis Howes?

  If you don't love yourself, you're gonna love your neighbor with a lot of anger and frustration.

• 7:23DeVon Franklin?

  But this is why we see a lot of what we're seeing in our world. And because we so focus on the neighbor part, but we don't focus on the self part. Love your neighbor as yourself, right? So how can I love anybody well if I don't love me well? So when we talk about loving somebody, and so often in relationships or dating, we're looking to love someone. We're looking for someone to love us. But do you love you? Loving you, me loving me, comes, it starts with appreciating who I am, flaws and all, going easy on myself. Too often, we are the people that talk to ourselves the worst.

• 8:07Lewis Howes?

  Worst, over and over.

• 8:08DeVon Franklin?

  Over and over. We would never let somebody talk to us as badly as we talk to ourselves. That's not love. Love is like, "It's okay. Yep, you know you felt. Come on, get up. You're good. You're gonna be all right. All right, what did you learn? What do you gotta do differently? It's a lesson. It's not an indictment. Loving ourself, we come to find out, "Well, what do we like? What do I like to do? What are the things that contribute to my happiness? And let me prioritize those things." When we love ourselves, we really start to appreciate. We start to say, "Oh, man, you know what? I'm gonna be all right. I'm gonna be okay." And so often, we don't do that. We're looking for other people to do the work for us that we're not doing ourselves. That's why there's always this imbalance.

• 8:53DeVon Franklin?

  That's why we can never really find contentment. Why? Because it starts here. Prayer, meditation, working out, eating right, whatever the things that contribute to your happiness, you and I have to make a committee of one to do those things.

• 9:07Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 9:08DeVon Franklin?

  Period. Whatever those things are that bring you peace, don't wait until your partner does it. Don't wait until you get in a relationship to focus on it. Do it now.

• 9:18Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 9:19DeVon Franklin?

  And one of the biggest challenges is that if you are already in a relationship or you're in a marriage, and it has become so codependent that you don't do anything unless they give you permission. You know, "Oh, you don't want to go work out? Okay, I want to go work out today." "Oh, you want to cook? Oh, let's go..." Right? There's nothing wrong with wanting to do things together, but what are the things that you like to do? Who are you? What's in your heart? So before you point the finger, "Hey, this is not working and you're the problem", everyone has to do a self-assessment and say, "Well, okay, well, have I done my work? Am I doing my work? Do I love myself?"

• 9:53Lewis Howes?

  What should we assess in that process? What are the things we should be asking ourselves?

• 9:58DeVon Franklin?

  The thing you should be asking yourself when you are assessing who you are, one.

• 10:02Lewis Howes?

  When you're frustrated in the relationship, when you're fighting, you're arguing, you're not seeing out of eye.

• 10:06DeVon Franklin?

  Yeah, oh, great, great.

• 10:07Lewis Howes?

  You think they're the problem.

• 10:08DeVon Franklin?

  Oh.

• 10:09Lewis Howes?

  They're not understanding you. What should we ask ourselves?

• 10:12DeVon Franklin?

  Well, first of all, what am I actually frustrated about?

• 10:16Lewis Howes?

  Mm.

• 10:16DeVon Franklin?

  Right. Let's start there. What am I frustrated about? What are the problems that I am having? Because so often, we don't even communicate with our, like, we're not even clear, right, what the problems are. What are the areas of frustration? What are the problems? And then, before you go and try to solve it, you then have to ask, what is my contribution?

• 10:44Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 10:46DeVon Franklin?

  Because everyone is making a contribution to the very problems that they can't stand in their relationship.

• 10:53Lewis Howes?

  What is my contribution to this problem?

• 10:55DeVon Franklin?

  Correct.

• 10:55Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 10:56DeVon Franklin?

  What is my contribution to the problem? Because once we, because it's so easy. It's easy to point the finger.

• 11:05Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 11:05DeVon Franklin?

  But it's really hard to point the finger back at ourselves. It's really hard. And so before you start doing, hey, before you start doing this and you're not doing right and you're wrong and you're pointing the finger, whoever you're in the relationship with, you start to do this assessment and say, okay. What's really the problem? What's really, what, what, have I not been communicative enough? Have I not set my expectations? You know, have I been too harsh? Like, you gotta really start doing the assessment of yourself. And then bring that conversation.

• 11:41Lewis Howes?

  And I think also to go even deeper is like, why is this triggering me?

• 11:45DeVon Franklin?

  Exactly.

• 11:45Lewis Howes?

  Like, why is this a problem for me?

• 11:48DeVon Franklin?

  Yes.

• 11:48Lewis Howes?

  Like.

• 11:49DeVon Franklin?

  Yes.

• 11:50Lewis Howes?

  Maybe it's not the other person's doing something to me, but the trigger of it is something I haven't healed or addressed from the past.

• 11:56DeVon Franklin?

  Yes.

• 11:57Lewis Howes?

  And that's why I'm triggered.

• 11:58DeVon Franklin?

  Yes.

• 11:58Lewis Howes?

  But they're just being them. And, you know, depending on the situation, but it's like, what's the root of this frustration for me?

• 12:06DeVon Franklin?

  Dude, this is so true, and this is why I talk about this in the book. Um, I talk about how expectations are the secret software that run our life.

• 12:14Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 12:15DeVon Franklin?

  And, and what I mean by that is that we don't actually sometimes react to life events. We react to our expectations of events.

• 12:23Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 12:23DeVon Franklin?

  So if situations or people exceed our expectation, we're happy. If situations or people don't, we're devastated.

• 12:31Lewis Howes?

  So what should we do? Have no expectations?

• 12:33DeVon Franklin?

  No, you can't do that. Because expectations are like blood pressure. You know, too high, it's not good, too low, it's not good. Because expectation, we need motivation. Expectations are, are hope, right? So we do have to have hope, but we've got to set it properly.

• 12:47Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 12:47DeVon Franklin?

  Because so often, when our expectation is not set, to your point that you made, we end up reacting based upon an unset expectation. And so it's not that what the person's doing is wrong. It's that we have not set expectations for ourselves. We haven't identified what those triggers are. We haven't identified, oh, wait a minute. Wait a second. They're not the problem. It's how I'm looking at it is the problem. So in order to set expectations, I, I, I have every person that reads the book, ask these two questions. One, is it realistic or unrealistic?

• 13:22DeVon Franklin?

  How do you know? Comes down to one word. If you, this is how you determine if your expectation is realistic or unrealistic. Control.

• 13:31Lewis Howes?

  What do you mean? Are you trying to be in control or?

• 13:33DeVon Franklin?

  If it's within your control to do it, you can expect it. It's a realistic expectation. If it's out of your control, you cannot expect it. So I'll give two examples. Uh, you know, your podcast is amazing. It's incredible, one of the most dynamic podcasts in the world.

• 13:47Lewis Howes?

  Thank you.

• 13:48DeVon Franklin?

  No matter how hard you try, you cannot force somebody to go listen to it.

• 13:53Lewis Howes?

  No.

• 13:53DeVon Franklin?

  Can't.

• 13:55Lewis Howes?

  I can hope.

• 13:56DeVon Franklin?

  Hope.

• 13:56Lewis Howes?

  I can have a range of what I think people listen to.

• 13:59DeVon Franklin?

  Yes, I can have a target, I can have a goal. But if I put, if you put a, a, an expectation of like, hey, it's gotta be a million by next month.

• 14:10Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 14:11DeVon Franklin?

  I would argue that's unrealistic.

• 14:12Lewis Howes?

  Uh huh.

• 14:13DeVon Franklin?

  Because it's out of your control.

• 14:14Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 14:15DeVon Franklin?

  What's in your control? I want to produce the best podcasts.

• 14:18Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 14:18DeVon Franklin?

  With the best conversations and the best guests with the best marketing and the best publicity. All in your control, realistic to expect.

• 14:26Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 14:27DeVon Franklin?

  Now, let's apply that to people. You're in a relationship.

• 14:33Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 14:33DeVon Franklin?

  You know, I want this person to love me in a certain way. I want this person to, you know, have, have this amount of sex. I want this person to, to go work out. I want this person to go eat. I want this person.

• 14:46Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, can't control that.

• 14:48DeVon Franklin?

  You can't control it.

• 14:49Lewis Howes?

  You can communicate it. You can set up the structure for it.

• 14:54DeVon Franklin?

  But you can't control it.

• 14:55Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 14:55DeVon Franklin?

  And so often, our expectations with others are unset. Why? Because we're trying to control what we don't.

• 15:01Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 15:02DeVon Franklin?

  You and I only control ourselves and the remote, wherever the remote, that's it.

• 15:06Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 15:07DeVon Franklin?

  I can't control anybody else, ever. And, and too often, we spend so much energy trying to get someone.

• 15:17DeVon Franklin?

  To behave and live in the way that we want.

• 15:21Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 15:21DeVon Franklin?

  Instead of behaving in the way that we want, right? Living the way that we want. And if we live the way that we want, then whoever we're in the relationship with, either that is going to compel them to say, hey, hey, you know what, I like what you're doing, and then you say, hey, I like what you're doing, so let's do that together.

• 15:40Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 15:41DeVon Franklin?

  Or it won't. But when we try to get somebody to be what we want them to be and do what we want them to do, that's called manipulation.

• 15:48Lewis Howes?

  What happens when we are in a relation, when we are trying to control or manipulate someone else in an intimate relationship, or they're doing that to us, what happens?

• 15:56DeVon Franklin?

  Um, what happens is, uh, love goes down.

• 16:00Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 16:01DeVon Franklin?

  Fear rises. Here's what I mean by that.

• 16:06DeVon Franklin?

  You, you, you, you, the fear of if I don't do this, they're gonna leave.

• 16:14DeVon Franklin?

  So, that person, you know, everyone has different degrees of self-determination. And so, in a relationship, when you've fallen in love and you really care about somebody and they're asking you to do something or be something, that can be a very compelling thing to do even when it's not who you are. And so, the fear of if I don't, will they leave? Okay, so then it becomes a performance-based relationship.

• 16:37Lewis Howes?

  It's not good.

• 16:37DeVon Franklin?

  It's not good. I'm doing this because I don't want them to go, but I know it doesn't bring me joy. So, it no longer is love leading the way.

• 16:47Lewis Howes?

  It's fear.

• 16:48DeVon Franklin?

  It's fear, it's fear, and, and, and, okay, you know what, I'm gonna do this because this is what they want, and I'm gonna become this, but every moment that I do it, and it's not in my heart, is a moment that my soul gets crushed.

• 17:00Lewis Howes?

  Oh.

• 17:00DeVon Franklin?

  Every single moment.

• 17:02Lewis Howes?

  This is my life. This is my life up until now, where, you know, not all the time, but

• 17:09DeVon Franklin?

  Yeah.

• 17:09Lewis Howes?

  I could see a pattern in my past relationships where I would just do things to make the other person happy, even though I didn't want to do them.

• 17:17DeVon Franklin?

  Mm-hmm.

• 17:19Lewis Howes?

  Because they were angry or upset or frustrated or whatever, they had some expectation. And I would sense like, man, the love is going down a little bit, a little bit, but I When I took responsibility and accountability, I was like, but it's not their fault. I'm the one choosing to do these things because I'm afraid that they're gonna be angry at me or that they're gonna leave or they're not gonna love me. So it's my responsibility to stand in my truth.

• 17:42DeVon Franklin?

  Yeah.

• 17:42Lewis Howes?

  In those tough, challenging moments when someone's like, you don't support me, you're not doing whatever they're saying.

• 17:48DeVon Franklin?

  Yeah.

• 17:48Lewis Howes?

  It's tough to do that.

• 17:50DeVon Franklin?

  Oh.

• 17:51Lewis Howes?

  We're triggered, it's challenging, but I think if someone's gonna leave you by you standing in your truth and being frustrated by you constantly, then that's maybe not the right fit for you.

• 18:00DeVon Franklin?

  Well, not only is it potentially not the right fit, you gotta think about something. You gotta put yourself at the end of your life. And you gotta say.

• 18:09Lewis Howes?

  You posted a quote on Instagram recently about this.

• 18:11DeVon Franklin?

  Yes.

• 18:12Lewis Howes?

  I saw it.

• 18:13DeVon Franklin?

  That's a good quote.

• 18:13Lewis Howes?

  One of the regrets, one of the regrets of dying.

• 18:16DeVon Franklin?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, oh yeah, that quote, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, and I really, I use that as a prompt.

• 18:20Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 18:21DeVon Franklin?

  To get people to think about.

• 18:22Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 18:23DeVon Franklin?

  End of your life. But if you do that, so I, so let's say in that, in that dynamic,

• 18:28DeVon Franklin?

  you become what they want you to be, even though it's not who you really are. You get to the end of your life and can you live with doing what was expected but never what was destined?

• 18:41DeVon Franklin?

  Can you live?

• 18:42Lewis Howes?

  Ooh, man.

• 18:44DeVon Franklin?

  With doing what was expected but never what was destined? And if the answer to that question is no, then you gotta make some changes.

• 18:55Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, so tough.

• 18:56DeVon Franklin?

  It is.

• 18:57Lewis Howes?

  Why does love trap us?

• 18:59DeVon Franklin?

  Because.

• 19:00Lewis Howes?

  I'm speaking for myself.

• 19:02DeVon Franklin?

  Yeah.

• 19:02Lewis Howes?

  Cause I don't wanna say the world does this, but I, I sense a lot of other people do this. When we feel the sense of chemistry and connection and intimacy.

• 19:10DeVon Franklin?

  Yeah.

• 19:11Lewis Howes?

  And vulnerability and love, whether it's real or not, we sense that feeling of intimacy with someone else. Why does that trap us? And we stay in these things, in general, I'm not speaking for everyone, but we tend to stay in these things much longer than we should. Like you'll hear people say, I knew I should have got a divorce seven years ago.

• 19:33DeVon Franklin?

  Yeah.

• 19:34Lewis Howes?

  It's like they get, they break up or they divorce. I always ask them, when did you know? That you weren't supposed to be with this person?

• 19:39DeVon Franklin?

  Hmm.

• 19:40Lewis Howes?

  Five years ago, 10 years ago, the day I got married. Right? You hear these things and you're like, well, why do we stay?

• 19:47DeVon Franklin?

  Right.

• 19:48Lewis Howes?

  Why is this so hard for us, this trap of love?

• 19:51DeVon Franklin?

  Right.

• 19:52Lewis Howes?

  Why don't we get out of it sooner?

• 19:53DeVon Franklin?

  Right. I mean, there's so many, there's so many reasons. The reason that comes to mind is worth, self-worth.

• 20:00Lewis Howes?

  Ew, we don't believe we're worth, or we're afraid we won't find something as good, or what do you mean?

• 20:05DeVon Franklin?

  What I mean is that it can take a while for you to come into a revelation of what you're worth. And that you are worthy to be happy and pursue happiness on your terms. And come to the revelation that, you know, this dynamic is no longer, you know, making that contribution to my life.

• 20:25Lewis Howes?

  Not that they're bad and wrong.

• 20:27DeVon Franklin?

  There you go. Right, right.

• 20:28Lewis Howes?

  Not that it's all their fault.

• 20:29DeVon Franklin?

  There you go.

• 20:30Lewis Howes?

  It just wasn't the right fit.

• 20:31DeVon Franklin?

  And for me, you know, when you're in that situation, it can take a long time for you to get to the place where you feel enough worth. Where you're ready to say, you know what, I'm going to endure the fear, I'm going to endure the challenges to make that kind of move. So when you talk about love, love cuts to the core of our worth. Because we all need it.

• 20:50Lewis Howes?

  Man.

• 20:51DeVon Franklin?

  And when I say love, we all need love. I don't mean just romantic love. I'm just saying, we all need to love and be loved. I think it's just part of our humanity. It's just part of how we were created. It's part of our divinity, right? God is love. We are, God is in us. We love, right? And we serve. And so part of that love is, oh man, I want, so much of it is focused on giving. Because think about, again, think about how we're socialized. Right? Oh, you do the right thing. Oh, mommy, daddy loves you. Oh, you know, oh, I wanna, but it's not like, you know, do you love you?

• 21:23DeVon Franklin?

  Do you know you're worthy? Do you know that you are worth it? Do you love who looks back at you in the mirror? Do you love who looks back at you when you take the selfie? Because at the end of the day, love becomes complicated because we never actually get there with our worth and who we really are. And so we go into the relationship and we haven't really done the work. We kind of feel worthy. We don't quite feel loved and we bring all of that. That's a recipe for this, you know? And here's the thing, it's okay, right? We're on, love is like a rocky sea, right? You know what I mean? You're on, hey, we're on the boat, man, it's gonna be rocky. It's okay. Because we all have our stuff. So it's not about finding somebody who don't have stuff.

• 22:06DeVon Franklin?

  You want to find somebody who can help you with your stuff. Who's willing to help you with your stuff. So that as you bring things that are difficult, they're like, hey, it's cool, let's work this through. But you both find a healthy way to do it. But one of the reasons why I think people stay in things is because of worth. And you need time to get to a place, and some people never get there. Where you realize what you're worth. Because at the end of the day, I go back to happiness, it's like and peace and joy. You know, this, we only live this life once. You know, I'm a Christian, I believe in heaven, I believe in that. But I've also believed that this is, this earth, this life, this particular existence, we only get it once. So when you really put that in the broad scheme of things,

• 22:50DeVon Franklin?

  you think, okay, am I living right now according to my choice? Am I doing the things that bring me joy, bring me peace? Or am I allowing things in my life that are working against it, no matter what they are? It could be a relationship, it could be a job, it could be a living environment, whatever it is, I have to take control and do this assessment and then make the decision, okay, from a relationship standpoint, if my relationship isn't everything I want, okay, what do I need to do to fix it? But first, I gotta fix me. Yeah. And I gotta work on me. And I gotta love me. And as I love me, it will then help me learn how to love others and make the assessment. Okay, you know what?

• 23:32DeVon Franklin?

  Maybe this person is gonna be able to walk with me and I walk with them. Great. Maybe not. But let me not just point the finger and do the, do the work. The other thing I wanna hit is, um, when you're talking about setting expectations, that second part of setting expectations is communication, right? Is it spoken or unspoken? And we talked about this earlier. You've got to actually ask the question. So even in this situation, when you talk about difficult relationship, this scenario, instead of making the assumption, whatever your area of frustration is, sit down and frame it as a question. You know what? I was expecting that, you know, in this relationship, that, you know, we would sit down and eat every night at seven o'clock.

• 24:16DeVon Franklin?

  Right, cuz this is what we did with my family. So I just assumed. So I just assumed. You would do the same thing. Is that your expectation? Is that, is that something I can expect from you? Is, and let them say yes or no. Oh, okay, so for you, like, you don't ever expect to be home at seven. You're going out to dinners. You're going out to dinners, right. Oh, okay, got it. Okay, okay. All right, okay, great. Wow, now we're actually having a real adult conversation, right? We're having a adult conversation because we're taking accountability. And we're communicating. And so when it comes to setting expectations in, in any area of life, you gotta know, is it realistic or unrealistic vis a vis control? And you gotta ask, is it spoken or unspoken vis a vis communication? And when we start to do these tools, you know, it does free us up.

• 24:58DeVon Franklin?

  Cuz the reason why I wanted to write Live Free is because so often we're not. And when I say live free, what I mean is that when you and I live free, when anyone lives free, it means they are not under the mental, physical, or emotional control of anyone or anything. That's what living free is. Living free means, and so when we get into a situation and we start to feel like, "Ooh, this, this person is starting to feel like this person is making me mad or contributing to my discontent." Then I would say to that person, "Okay, pause for a minute, pause for a second." It's super easy just to turn all your attention to what they're not doing, right? "No, no, no, no. How do you want to feel in this situation? What would give you more power in this situation?

• 25:43DeVon Franklin?

  What would give you more peace?" Okay. You know what? I'm identifying that there are some things in my relationship that are incompatible.

• 25:50Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 25:51DeVon Franklin?

  I am going to spend some time observing what those things are and identifying if there are certain things I can live with

• 25:59Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 25:59DeVon Franklin?

  and what I can't.

• 26:03Esther Perel?

  If their entire story about a relationship that just ended is about what the other person did wrong to them, something is missing in the story.

• 26:15Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 26:16Esther Perel?

  That doesn't mean that the other person may not have done things that were hurtful to them. But add to it, who were you in this relationship?

• 26:24Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely.

• 26:25Esther Perel?

  What role did you play? What did you see that you didn't want to pay attention to? What things do you wish you had done differently? What pieces do you wish that your partner had seen and accepted from you differently? Where did you wish you would have said less? And where did you wish you would have said more? What do you learn from this relationship? And if when you say what you learned, it's just that I want to make sure that the next person is...

• 26:57Lewis Howes?

  Right, gives me what I need.

• 26:59Esther Perel?

  You know, or is less of this or more of that, you know? Who do you want to be in the next relationship?

• 27:06Lewis Howes?

  How are you going to add value?

• 27:08Esther Perel?

  A relationship is a story of many people. It's not even a story just of two. Who was too involved in your relationship? Who was not involved enough? So, it's, there's a cast of characters in a relationship. And, and it's all those questions that you want to ask when you are in transition. What, what...

• 27:30Esther Perel?

  I think that's it. I mean, you can, but there are both directions. If you find yourself with a spotlight only on the other person and you in a passive receptive stance, you're missing a whole pan of the story.

• 27:46Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, and you're probably more of the problem than, of the relationship than them. If you're just focusing on them, probably.

• 27:53Esther Perel?

  A relationship is not about this person and that person. The relationship is what happens in between. This is my view on relationships. It's, it's not an essentialist view. This is this personality and that personality. It's the dynamic.

• 28:07Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 28:08Esther Perel?

  You can have a dynamic with a certain partner. You've had dynamics with certain partners. And of course, it was just the right fit between the match and the ignition. And so you had enough inside of you to react with a certain kind of, let's put, your jealousy. But you may meet another person who acts differently. And you may still have a little bit of that jealousy inside of you, but it doesn't get activated because this person is responding very differently to you. And when you say, where were you? They don't say, why do you always have to ask me that question? They just say, I just went to do this. It's all good, darling. I'm right here. I've got you back. And then you don't go into your chest pains, you know, pain.

• 28:53Esther Perel?

  So this is very important to understand. We are not the same person with, with different partners. We may have certain things that come out depending on what is being sent over to us. So the relationship is a figure eight. It's what I do that makes you do something, that then makes you react to me a certain way, that then draws that out of me, that draws that out of you. And each one actually creates the other. And when you get that view of relationships, when you come out, you, and you're in transition, you say to yourself, let's say, I was with someone who completely disconnected. Okay, they're disconnected. I, did I push them away?

• 29:40Esther Perel?

  Are there ways in which I contributed sometimes to the disconnection? And that is not self-blame. That is understanding the dynamic. You can take responsibility about things without blaming yourself. And you can hold the other person accountable without blaming them. It's not a blame dance. But it is an understanding of what did I do that made you do what you then did to me? Then made me? That's the relationship.

• 30:05Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. And if someone's like, you know what? They're listening to you, they're there, they really want to have an amazing relationship. They want to have a rich life. Knowing it's not going to be perfect, but they want to create beauty and adventure and play and go through life through the sadness and the adversities and all the things that happen in life.

• 30:24Lewis Howes?

  And they're thinking to themselves, how much should I pour into myself for my dreams, my health, my friends and family? How much should I pour into the other person? Into their life that I'm creating a partnership with? And how much should I pour into the relationship itself? What would you say to that?

• 30:45Esther Perel?

  But you asked me, it's different questions, right? What keeps a relationship alive is one question. How much do you invest in a relationship is a different question.

• 30:59Esther Perel?

  So I'm going to go to the one about what keeps it alive.

• 31:03Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 31:03Esther Perel?

  Because it's part of, and I'm suddenly watching the box and thinking, this, it is what I'm most interested in. Because I work on eroticism. What keeps us alive? What keeps us hopeful? What keeps us engaged with possibility?

• 31:22Lewis Howes?

  Not physically alive, but connected alive.

• 31:25Esther Perel?

  Connected to life. Life force, life energy. Why? Because, because I think everybody understands relationships that are not dead versus relationships that are alive. Teams that are not dead, companies versus companies that are alive. What is flourishing versus surviving? And because it is part of my personal history. And I come from a background of survivors, of parents who were in concentration camps. And I wanted to understand, how do people stay alive when they spend five years in a concentration camp? So that's why I got interested in eroticism. Sexuality is a piece of this, but sexuality is not eroticism. You can have sex every day and feel nothing.

• 32:11Esther Perel?

  Eroticism is the poetry that accompanies it. It's the meaning we give to it.

• 32:15Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 32:15Esther Perel?

  Right? It's the story that's attached. So eroticism in a relationship is the quality of imagination, curiosity, playfulness, mystery, risk-taking, novelty, that people bring to their relationship. Those are the things that I think bring life to a relationship. So in the research of Eli Finkel, it means doing new things together, taking risks beyond your threshold, out of your comfort zone. Because if you do pleasant things that are familiar, it's cozy, it's friendship, it's love, but it's not exciting, it's not erotic, it's not necessarily desire.

• 32:59Esther Perel?

  It's calibrating your expectations. So that you have, and that means diversifying your intimate connections or your deep connections, doesn't it? You know, for me intimacy doesn't mean sexual either. It just means people that are important to you, that accompany you through the life stages and through the big events in life. These three things, expectations, calibrating expectations, diversifying your social connections and taking risks and doing new things, is the research of Eli Finkel for thriving relationships. But then in that piece, I think play is essential.

• 33:36Lewis Howes?

  It's huge, right?

• 33:37Esther Perel?

  Playfulness, it's huge. And it is actually the quality of emotions that is the least talked about.

• 33:44Lewis Howes?

  How often are you playing in your relationship?

• 33:47Esther Perel?

  All the time, all the time. We have, humor is essential. It's an essential salve and balm in my relationship. I can be in the middle of an argument and then I start to laugh and then I just get perspective and we just kind of ground ourselves back again. It's flirting, it's teasing, it's making fun of, it's, it's that whole realm of we're not really serious and we don't take ourselves that serious.

• 34:16Lewis Howes?

  And what happens when relationships are taking themselves very serious and they're not playing?

• 34:21Esther Perel?

  Look, I had a teacher who once said to me, if a couple comes to you for therapy and there is absolutely zero humor left.

• 34:31Esther Perel?

  It is diagnostic.

• 34:33Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 34:34Esther Perel?

  Now, is it true, you know, nobody has proven that scientifically. But what you know is that humor. And if you listen to my podcast, if you listen to the sessions on where should we begin or on how is work, you'll see in the middle of talking about trauma, painful event, major fight, strife, I laugh with them. I manage to see if they can see themselves, if they have a bit of distance, of perspective, if they understand sometimes the absurdity of the things that we get into, the things over which we fight, the way we do it. And even if it's just a glimmer, a smile on the side, on the corner, I know they know that I know that we know.

• 35:16Esther Perel?

  And it creates that complicity and it invites a new possibility.

• 35:23Lewis Howes?

  Some people may be resisting the humor, they may like, they want to hold on to the seriousness.

• 35:27Esther Perel?

  Yes, if you want to hold on to righteousness, to I am right, to victimization, to I have the view that is the right, only view that matters and only my perception and my experience is the truth, then you are in a polarized system that is rigid and unyielding. Humor and play is possibility. Possibility invites change. Change invites healing.

• 35:55Lewis Howes?

  Yes. I want to ask you a few more questions, then I want us to play your game for a little bit.

• 36:02Lewis Howes?

  Over the last two years, was there anything that came up for you personally in your own inner world that you noticed, oh, there's something, like we talked about it, it created a lot of pressure for people if there were things that came out. Was there anything for you that you were like, huh, there's something I still need to work on myself or need to continue the healing journey of that came out in the last couple of years? With being at home and, you know, not doing things the way they used to be?

• 36:30Esther Perel?

  I will answer this in two ways. The way that I experienced the pandemic. So in the first, in the beginning, right after I left you. I went back to New York and I went in lockdown. And basically, it was in the, you know, suddenly kind of, I got gripped with a bit of a panic. And primarily because I thought I can't catch this thing. Because if I catch it, I am now suddenly considered elderly. I'm past sixty.

• 37:02Lewis Howes?

  But you're thirty five.

• 37:03Esther Perel?

  Yeah, yeah. For the pandemic changed, it suddenly shifted overnight. I became elderly. And that meant I wasn't sure if we entered the hospital, me or Jack, that we will pass the triage.

• 37:15Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 37:15Esther Perel?

  And he's older than me. And I got really, really scared. I had a lot of post-traumatic stress symptoms that are very much connected to the Holocaust and to my family experience. That sense that overnight, this whole life I have built could just disappear like this. And it was irrational. I was terrified that Jack would die. To the point, you wanted to know about humor in my relationship? So we are in the middle of construction at the time. And the workers, and at the point he comes to me and he says, I asked the workers to create, to dig a hole in the garden. I said, oh yeah, why? He said, so that when I die, you can just roll me right in.

• 37:58Lewis Howes?

  Oh my God. Wow, talk about humor.

• 38:01Esther Perel?

  And I, but I cracked up because it, he showed me, girl, you're gripped in fear. And I just started to laugh and I just realized, no, no, no, he's not dead. Because I was ready to stop construction. I said, we're not making this.

• 38:15Lewis Howes?

  No one can come here within a thousand yards of.

• 38:17Esther Perel?

  No, no, it's more like we will not survive.

• 38:19Lewis Howes?

  No way.

• 38:20Esther Perel?

  I was, I really, when it's post-traumatic, it's trauma is the word, right? So I really was very, very, very scared. And his humor diffused it for me and just brought me back and said, we're continuing to build. We're gonna live, we're gonna survive. Don't worry, girl. It's like. So this was one and it slowly, you know, I entered into the, into the, the, the long term of the pandemic and it dissolved. And that's when I understood this came out of that. I missed my friends, I missed my dinner parties, I missed intimacy. And I created a host of different group experiences, pods.

• 39:02Esther Perel?

  I had a movie club on Zoom on three continents.

• 39:06Lewis Howes?

  Oh, that's cool.

• 39:07Esther Perel?

  I had a book club. I had a yoga group that met four times a week still till now, that is over two continents.

• 39:14Lewis Howes?

  Wow, that's cool.

• 39:15Esther Perel?

  And I had a hiking group, I had a swimming group in the summer. And then one day I said, I need to play and I need to continue to have conversations where I learned something new. I was so freaking tired of talking about the pandemic all the time.

• 39:28Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure.

• 39:29Esther Perel?

  And I said, I'm gonna create a game, not having any idea of what this thing was going to become and, and what it represented. I just thought, oh, I wanna do something creative and I'm gonna, I want people to be able to talk about something that isn't just like, you know, when you live six months like this in lockdown, you begin to have the same conversations.

• 39:48Lewis Howes?

  Of course, yeah, yeah, of course.

• 39:49Esther Perel?

  So I just thought, how am I going to make couples have fun? Get, get, get energized, you know, be curious about each other, talk about something else. And I thought, we need to play because play is a container. Play gives you the possibility to take risks, to talk about things that you would otherwise not talk about because it's under the guise of play. Play allows you to ask questions that you would otherwise not ask, certainly not to your partner, because we get more shy with the people that we live with than with strangers sometimes.

• 40:20Lewis Howes?

  Really? Interesting, yeah.

• 40:21Esther Perel?

  You know, you're more daring to ask sometimes questions to strangers.

• 40:24Lewis Howes?

  Strangers that you're never gonna see again.

• 40:25Esther Perel?

  Or people you've just met.

• 40:27Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 40:27Esther Perel?

  Than the person you live with for decades on end.

• 40:30Lewis Howes?

  That's interesting.

• 40:31Esther Perel?

  And I just, so play became very, very central. When, when you play, you still, you still are able to lift yourself from the ground and it means you can enter the world of imagination and where the rules are different. And every child at this moment, you know, around the Ukrainian crisis, you can see when kids are still able to play, it is the moments when they are not in hyper vigilance. It is an essential survival skill.

• 41:01Lewis Howes?

  Yes, yes.

• 41:03Esther Perel?

  Underrated.

• 41:05Esther Perel?

  And from that place, Kim.

• 41:07Lewis Howes?

  That's great.

• 41:08Esther Perel?

  Where should we begin?

• 41:08Lewis Howes?

  It's one of the key things in a relationship and in life, is what I'm hearing you say.

• 41:12Esther Perel?

  It's essential.

• 41:13Lewis Howes?

  It's essential.

• 41:13Esther Perel?

  It's essential.

• 41:17Lewis Howes?

  Do you think one, a relationship can truly thrive if one person is developing and working on themselves and processing and learning new skills and the other person is not?

• 41:29Jillian Turecki?

  It's very hard, you know, because people, I think growth is very important.

• 41:37Jillian Turecki?

  I also think that everyone grows at different speeds and they grow differently. So whereas therapy has been very impactful for you, for someone else, it might be something, something different, right? There's many paths.

• 41:54Lewis Howes?

  As long as they're doing something.

• 41:55Jillian Turecki?

  Doing something, right? And I think that people grow at different speeds and I do think that you have to love someone as though they would never change, though the funny thing is, it's like, we want everyone to sort of grow, to evolve, but what it, but we have to.

• 42:12Lewis Howes?

  We shouldn't be on their terms, right? That's what I told her, I said, "Listen, I'm committed to my own growth. I'm going to continue to grow and evolve."

• 42:19Jillian Turecki?

  Yes.

• 42:20Lewis Howes?

  But you've got to accept me where I'm at.

• 42:21Jillian Turecki?

  Yes.

• 42:22Lewis Howes?

  And if you don't accept me where I'm at now, and you want me to change right now into something that's going to make you happy, this is not going to work.

• 42:28Jillian Turecki?

  Or fall in love with potential, which is a trap.

• 42:30Lewis Howes?

  You cannot do that.

• 42:30Jillian Turecki?

  No, you cannot do that. And also, what defines growth? How do you know that you're growing? You know, because some people will say, they'll go on like, you know, a retreat or do ayahuasca or do something and be like, "Oh my God, like all of this," you know? And the other person's like, "Whoa." And then, that doesn't mean that the other person's not growing. So it's like, what really, I think growing as a couple is really important.

• 42:53Lewis Howes?

  That's why I said we've got to do, whether you call it coaching or therapy.

• 42:56Jillian Turecki?

  I love that.

• 42:57Lewis Howes?

  Committing to it together.

• 42:59Jillian Turecki?

  I love that.

• 43:00Lewis Howes?

  Individual, on our own, and then together.

• 43:02Jillian Turecki?

  I love that.

• 43:03Lewis Howes?

  And she was like, "Yeah, I'm down." So she has her own coach that she works with every two weeks for an hour, an hour and a half to work on her own stuff individually. I do that as well individually and then we do it together.

• 43:14Jillian Turecki?

  I love that.

• 43:15Lewis Howes?

  From the beginning.

• 43:16Jillian Turecki?

  From the beginning.

• 43:17Lewis Howes?

  Been huge for us.

• 43:18Jillian Turecki?

  Oh, I think it should be non-negotiable.

• 43:21Lewis Howes?

  That's why I said, I was like, this is non-negotiable for me.

• 43:23Jillian Turecki?

  Yeah.

• 43:24Lewis Howes?

  If it's not something you want, then then find someone else and I'll find someone else or whatever, yeah.

• 43:28Jillian Turecki?

  Because guess what? No matter how much work we do on ourselves, we're gonna be triggered. And that inner child is gonna come out screaming and we're gonna be like, you know, total ass sometimes. And you know, we're gonna have to apologize. I mean, being in a relationship means that you have to know how to forgive and forgive often. Because oftentimes we will make mistakes with the person we love and we don't, we didn't even realize that we were doing that. I mean, how many times have you hurt someone's feelings and that was not your intention?

• 43:56Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, so many.

• 43:57Jillian Turecki?

  So many.

• 43:58Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 43:59Jillian Turecki?

  So many times. So I love, you know, if more people, because the problem is that most people enter couples therapy when it's too late.

• 44:08Lewis Howes?

  When it's probably not gonna work out.

• 44:10Jillian Turecki?

  Yeah, when there's just too many problems and too many things to unpack. I mean, yes, it can work, you know, it can help, but if you can do this stuff preemptively, it's huge. Anything to prevent resentment.

• 44:25Lewis Howes?

  And pain and suffering and frustration.

• 44:28Jillian Turecki?

  Anything, you know, to foster honest conversations, you're gonna, you're gonna win. Even if you end up breaking up, you're gonna still win because at least it won't be the kind of breakup that destroys you.

• 44:41Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, this like six months, like exhausting, painful.

• 44:46Jillian Turecki?

  Exactly.

• 44:46Lewis Howes?

  Hurtful, back and forth.

• 44:48Jillian Turecki?

  Yeah, and that's, you know what? That's trauma.

• 44:50Lewis Howes?

  Oh, yeah, huge.

• 44:51Jillian Turecki?

  Yeah.

• 44:52Lewis Howes?

  And that'll hold people back from opening their heart in the next relationship.

• 44:57Jillian Turecki?

  See it all the time. People are walking around so wounded and so closed.

• 45:01Lewis Howes?

  What is the most unpopular thing or truth about relationships that most people don't wanna know?

• 45:08Jillian Turecki?

  I'll tell you straight up, that every relationship you've ever had had one thing in common and that was you. Just like every relationship I've ever had has one thing in common, that's me. It's not that all, all of them cheat, is that you keep cheating, you keep choosing cheaters. It's not that, you know, all of them are narcissists. It's that you're choosing the narcissist.

• 45:30Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 45:31Jillian Turecki?

  It's not that, um, you know, all of them are this or that. You're choosing them. You're part of that. And.

• 45:40Jillian Turecki?

  It's such an uncomfortable truth because, you know, people don't wanna see that in themselves, but it is the path to your freedom, 100%. Every, every relationship we have ever had has been a mirror. And it shows us where, sometimes it reflects back to us where we've done a lot of work, and it's lovely, sometimes it reflects back to us how wonderful we are. And oftentimes, in their past, if it hasn't worked out, it's gonna reflect where our self-worth is, where our immaturity is, where our trauma is. Every relationship we've ever had will reflect back to us the relationship we have with ourselves,

• 46:24Jillian Turecki?

  period, end of story. And if you can't, if one cannot actually accept that, they're just gonna keep repeating patterns, guaranteed.

• 46:33Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 46:34Jillian Turecki?

  Guaranteed. If your picker is off and busted because...

• 46:38Lewis Howes?

  Man, mine was off for years.

• 46:40Jillian Turecki?

  Yeah, because, you know, like, whatever, you're addicted to the chaos, or daddy did this, or mommy did this.

• 46:46Lewis Howes?

  Which is familiar.

• 46:47Jillian Turecki?

  It's, of course, it's familiar, and this is, this is very real. I don't mean to say it cavalierly, I mean, it's real. But then you better, you have to recondition yourself to understand what a healthy person is, and go for that, and become healthy yourself. Because most toxic relationships, of course, there are abusive relationships, where there is actually a very clear victim and a very clear perpetrator. But most of the time, what people refer to as toxic, which is just an overused term, and, you know, the current zeitgeist, but when people refer to toxic, it's two people with consistent, because we get unregulated once in a while,

• 47:28Jillian Turecki?

  that's called being human, with consistent, unregulated emotional states, blaming each other for each other's pain. And not taking responsibility.

• 47:38Lewis Howes?

  You did this to me. You made me feel this way. What you did hurt me.

• 47:41Jillian Turecki?

  And they're constantly unregulated. That's toxicity. Now, I was, when in my twenties, in a horrendous relationship. Talk about chemistry, because once you have chemistry with someone,

• 47:54Lewis Howes?

  You're screwed.

• 47:54Jillian Turecki?

  You're screwed.

• 47:55Lewis Howes?

  Screwed. You feel this chemical connection. You're like, this feeling, you're intoxicated.

• 48:00Jillian Turecki?

  It's a rap. And the thing is, if you haven't done work on yourself, you're gonna have that chemical explosion with the one person who's bad for you. And oftentimes, the person who's the best in bed is the person who's the worst for you. And usually, they're just, you find, the sex is amazing with them because there's a danger and then there's also a familiarity. I mean, we can-

• 48:21Lewis Howes?

  It's like a trauma bonding or something.

• 48:22Jillian Turecki?

  Yeah, exactly. So I remember in my twenties, I was in a relationship with someone for about a year who, without question, is toxic. Like, there's just-

• 48:32Lewis Howes?

  Right. You could feel it. You knew it.

• 48:33Jillian Turecki?

  Everyone knows it.

• 48:35Lewis Howes?

  They're like, what are you doing with this guy?

• 48:36Jillian Turecki?

  Yeah.

• 48:36Lewis Howes?

  He's treating you this way and-

• 48:38Jillian Turecki?

  Everyone knows it. It's just, it's a fact, right?

• 48:40Lewis Howes?

  But why did you stay then?

• 48:42Jillian Turecki?

  Exactly. Where's the toxicity in me? The low self-worth and all of that? Because the thing about being in a very unhealthy relationship is two people really bringing out the worst in each other.

• 48:53Lewis Howes?

  Not the best, yeah.

• 48:54Jillian Turecki?

  Definitely not even close to the best. To the point where that, when that relationship ends, part of getting over that relationship is trying to overcome the shame that you feel for like, even going there.

• 49:08Lewis Howes?

  I was there. How long of a life did I have with this person? The time and the energy and why would I, how could I do this? And what was, I think, the shame, the guilt, right?

• 49:16Jillian Turecki?

  Yeah. And also, just some of the things that you did. That's, like, how did I do that?

• 49:20Lewis Howes?

  How did I react this way?

• 49:21Jillian Turecki?

  Yeah. Like, that boundary that I do and like, that thing that I said, like, yeah.

• 49:26Lewis Howes?

  This is interesting. I ask people this sometimes. And I ask my younger self this now. I'm like, if sex was off the table, would I have stayed in certain relationships? And there's no way.

• 49:38Jillian Turecki?

  Yeah.

• 49:38Lewis Howes?

  Zero chance I would have stayed after a year, two years of feeling like I'm abandoning myself or getting screamed at every week or whatever. I've been like, what am I doing this for? Like-

• 49:47Jillian Turecki?

  Yes.

• 49:48Lewis Howes?

  Why would I stay in this thing?

• 49:49Jillian Turecki?

  Yes.

• 49:49Lewis Howes?

  Whatever reason, that chemical bonds you for a moment, and it's so strong, and then you're like- Okay, well, let's have a few good days and then it goes back into chaos. And you're like, yeah, yeah, let's get back to that feeling, right?

• 50:02Jillian Turecki?

  A hundred percent.

• 50:03Lewis Howes?

  But if you took that off the table, or if you just waited as long as you could.

• 50:08Jillian Turecki?

  Absolutely.

• 50:09Lewis Howes?

  I'm not saying to wait till marriage, but if you wait until you get to experience someone over and over and over again in lots of scenarios, and you felt safe and peaceful.

• 50:20Lewis Howes?

  Then maybe, okay, you can start into that sexual interaction, but.

• 50:24Jillian Turecki?

  And you can make out.

• 50:25Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, of course. I'm just talking about intercourse, right?

• 50:27Jillian Turecki?

  Yeah.

• 50:28Lewis Howes?

  But if you took it off the table and you asked yourself, would I be in this if we didn't have sex for a year? Probably you wouldn't.

• 50:33Jillian Turecki?

  Yes, exactly.

• 50:35Lewis Howes?

  If I'm not gonna have sex for a year with this person, would I put up with this behavior?

• 50:37Jillian Turecki?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 50:38Lewis Howes?

  Would I get screamed at? Would I be yelled at? Like, no.

• 50:40Jillian Turecki?

  Exactly.

• 50:41Lewis Howes?

  I don't need this.

• 50:42Jillian Turecki?

  Yeah, I don't need this. Exactly. And people, they don't wanna wait. And I always say, build that emotional intimacy first. Well, what if the sex is bad? You know what? You can work on it. And when you're making out with them, you know, anyway. You can have some idea if there's.

• 50:56Lewis Howes?

  It feels like connection by making out.

• 50:57Jillian Turecki?

  If there's, you know, there's chemistry from a kiss, period.

• 51:00Lewis Howes?

  Exactly.

• 51:01Jillian Turecki?

  So you don't have to go there.

• 51:03Lewis Howes?

  And some, I've heard this a lot lately. They're like, if someone is boring, you should run towards them, not away from them. You know what I mean?

• 51:12Jillian Turecki?

  If all you know is chaos.

• 51:14Lewis Howes?

  Is chemical chaos, right? You should run to, that's a safer environment. It doesn't mean he's the one or she's the one.

• 51:20Jillian Turecki?

  Right.

• 51:20Lewis Howes?

  To be with for you, but start looking at people that make you feel comfortable and safe.

• 51:26Jillian Turecki?

  Yes, where you can, I tell people all the time who have that pattern of always just

• 51:33Jillian Turecki?

  dating emotionally unavailable people or people that have been wrong for them. And usually what that person doesn't have the self-esteem necessary to be in a relationship with someone who is gonna respect them and love them. But I tell them, just practice, go towards boring. Exactly. Go towards that person so that you can have an experience of being in the presence of someone who you could potentially date, and you can just be totally yourself.

• 52:01Lewis Howes?

  One hundred percent yourself.

• 52:03Jillian Turecki?

  Yeah.

• 52:03Lewis Howes?

  Authentically you.

• 52:05Jillian Turecki?

  No errors, no strategizing to get someone to be more interested. Yeah, you can flirt and do all that fun stuff, but no strategizing to get someone to be more interested in you. Just you. And that is, I mean, that's like revolutionary for some people.

• 52:23Lewis Howes?

  What happens when we don't show our 100% authentic self to someone in the beginning? And we reveal that 6, 12 months later?

• 52:31Marisa Peer?

  Yeah.

• 52:32Lewis Howes?

  What happens?

• 52:32Marisa Peer?

  Well, they're really shocked. I didn't know you were like that. I had no idea because they've fallen in love with a version that you showed them that isn't even you. And we forget the truth, vulnerability is the basis of friendships and indeed relationships. When you're vulnerable, you know, people love you for you. When you're sick, when you have a bad day, they will say, then you know who your friends are. But if you pretend you're okay, I see that a lot with people who run a business, always pretend everything's fine. They never tell anyone they're lonely. And then we realize, like that great DJ who killed himself, was it Avicii?

• 53:11Lewis Howes?

  Avicii, yeah.

• 53:12Marisa Peer?

  Who, who never told anyone, "I'm falling apart here." Was it Bon Jovi? Who was it? Van Halen, Eddie Van Halen? There's so many people in the media who think, "I've got to pretend I'm great. I can't say I'm lonely. I'm sad. I'm lost." They often let you know through their songs. Look at Prince. I mean, that's so sad that he was so lonely.

• 53:37Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 53:37Marisa Peer?

  But they feel that if they tell us, we'll see them as weak and needy, when in fact, the basis of friendship is if you're vulnerable and I am, I like you because you're showing me who you really are. And I can love your very soul because I know you. But if I'm in love with an illusion, then it can't work because I don't even know who you are.

• 53:59Lewis Howes?

  Wow. How old were you when you started to realize that, that you were lovable?

• 54:03Marisa Peer?

  Hmm, I think in my 12, a long time, maybe. I remember when I was 18, I had this really lovely boyfriend. He'd always say, you know, "I love the way you look." And I would say to my mom, "I haven't got a personality. I really believed I had no personality." Because he'd say, "I love your hair. I love your body." But I heard that I didn't have any character whatsoever. And that really bothered me. So I think, um, You know, it's so weird because when you change so much, you can hardly recognize the person. Looking back, I'd say really my twenties, maybe even later than my mid twenties. It was only working with my clients over and over again and seeing what was wrong with them that I began to realize, oh, that's what's wrong with everyone.

• 54:48Marisa Peer?

  Yeah, and I began to see all of my clients, they could only ever have one of three things wrong with them.

• 54:54Lewis Howes?

  What's that?

• 54:55Marisa Peer?

  Well, the first one was, I'm not enough. That was the biggie. Every client I saw, whether they were a nursery school teacher, or they worked in a store, or they were a billionaire CEO, or a movie star, they all had the same thing. I'm not enough. And so I've got to earn love, or buy love, or keep being a bigger, better deal to get love. And that's so easy to fix. You just go, you just take the I'm, the not out. I am enough. I always have been, always will be, and you have, you see, the lie is, every day you tell yourself, I'm not enough. You don't know you're doing it. You get up and go, look at me, I don't look right, I messed that up, I didn't leave enough time to get here.

• 55:38Marisa Peer?

  My kids aren't perfect, my client is annoyed. So every day, over and over again, you're telling yourself you're not enough.

• 55:46Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 55:46Marisa Peer?

  And you just have to take out the not and go, I am enough. If I'm prepared to lie to myself every single day, over and over again, why not have a better lie? I'm enough. It doesn't have to be true. People say, you know, my legs are the size of tree trunks. Well, clearly that can't be true. This is killing me. This is making me crazy. This is driving me insane. None of these things are true. But if you're prepared to lie, at least have a better lie. I have great coping skills. This is a challenge, but I've got it. I can rest at the weekend. I've got this.

• 56:22Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 56:22Marisa Peer?

  I've got great, great, I have great coping skills is a great lie, because if you say enough, it actually becomes true really fast. Something I say a lot, you're never given anything that you can't cope with. Or if I've got a lot on, well, I'll rest at the weekend. I can deal with this. I've got this. This is fine. This is okay. So the first thing wrong with people is always I'm not enough. And if you feel like that, remember, you weren't born with it. You're in great company. And just let it go because it's not true. The second thing wrong is this belief that I'm different, so I can't connect. And that's kind of a modern day illness, you know. If you, if you're in a tribe, you would connect because you'd know that you're all interrelated. You look the same.

• 57:08Marisa Peer?

  But this belief, I'm different, so I can't connect is um.

• 57:12Lewis Howes?

  Is it I can't connect or, or people don't understand me?

• 57:15Marisa Peer?

  No, it's when you, you connect by being the same, you know, we're primitive people. We connect by being the same. So if you're different, it's very hard to connect because you feel different. And when you feel different, you can't connect. But then you have to remember the truth, if that's your greatest fear. It's most people's greatest fear. So if you look at E T, he couldn't, he connected to Elliot. But he couldn't connect and he had to go home because he had to be with his people. So.

• 57:44Lewis Howes?

  Why is that such a big fear for people?

• 57:46Marisa Peer?

  Of connecting.

• 57:47Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I'm different, so I can't connect. Isn't, isn't different good in a lot of ways? Like being unique and being different?

• 57:54Marisa Peer?

  Unique, well, the answer is yes and no. When you're a little kid, you go, I like SpongeBob SquarePants. I, I like Green Pass, I, I like Dr. Seuss. And we connect by being, I got a friend and they like what I like.

• 58:08Lewis Howes?

  Gotcha.

• 58:09Marisa Peer?

  So when we're little, we connect by being the same. And our, our DNA understands that we are hardwired to find connection and avoid rejection. Because that's how you make it as a child, you find connection. Whether it's your little kitten clinging on to your leg, your dog wanting you not to leave the house. A baby holding on so tightly to mum. You understand the truth, if I'm connected, I will survive. And if I'm disconnected, I will die. Because, you know, imagine a hundred years ago, you couldn't produce milk for your baby or five hundred years ago. We understood that connection is what made us live.

• 58:48Marisa Peer?

  And disconnection killed us. Why every culture practiced banishment or isolation or marooning or casting out. So connection makes us survive.

• 58:58Lewis Howes?

  Especially as adults?

• 58:59Marisa Peer?

  Yeah.

• 58:59Lewis Howes?

  Okay, so we need to feel connected.

• 59:01Marisa Peer?

  Yeah, and if you listen to all those songs, I'll die if you leave me. My world is empty without you. I can't live with, I can't breathe without you.

• 59:10Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 59:11Marisa Peer?

  And to this day, you know, schools understand that someone trolls you, someone ostracizes you. Kids, you know, cut you out of the group. They don't speak to you. So our greatest fear is if I'm different, I can't connect. But if you go back to that, everyone's fear is being different. If you have that fear, it actually means you're the same. And connection is a choice. You can connect to anyone all over the world, whatever their race, religion, creed is. The problem is that we, we don't see that. We still disconnect people. You know, we saw that a lot with the Boston bombers. They were so disconnected from society that that turned into hatred. And it's really important at schools to look at these disconnected kids

• 59:56Marisa Peer?

  and to bring them back. You know, if you look at the whole jail system in Finland, it's all about reconnect. We don't put them in isolation and then send them back out to the world crazy and full of anger. We reconnect. And so our greatest fear as humans is to be disconnected.

• 1:00:13Lewis Howes?

  So how do we reconnect if we feel like our friend group has pushed us away? Our family has sent us away? And how do we feel connected if we are?

• 1:00:22Marisa Peer?

  Well, sometimes you've got to find a new group. I mean, you know, your family are just what, what I call your original family. You can have an, you know, first of all, you have your nuclear family, mom, dad, brother, sister, auntie, uncle, grandma. But then when you get married, they become your extended family. And so you can always create a family. So don't go back to the old tribe that hurt you and expect them to get better. I think a lot of our problems is I expect my mom suddenly to become wonderful. She was always mean and hostile, but I expect her to be kind and lovely. She's got old now. Aren't old ladies sweet? No, sometimes they're still cranky. A bitter cranky person doesn't become sweet when they're eighty.

• 1:01:04Marisa Peer?

  And often the belief is I gotta go back to my family and make them love me when there's a whole world out there to love you.

• 1:01:10Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:01:11Marisa Peer?

  And if people hurt you. Not always intending to. And you keep going back to them, but they can't always make it better. It's like, you know. If you, if your family had that capacity to love you, a cup. But my capacity is Olympic swimming pool. I can't expect that to fill me up. I can fill them up, they can't fill up me. If I have a little, if my parents have a shot glass capacity to give me love. And I've got the ocean capacity, how can a shot glass fill up the ocean? Stop going back to people that hurt you and find, there are people all over the world that will love you and fill you up. But we keep going back to the hurters expecting them to make it better. They're often so hurt, they can't.

• 1:01:54Marisa Peer?

  And they often do things like, well, you know, people like us, we don't have that. And look at those people, we're not like that. So it's, I feel different. You know, if your dad was the town drunk. If you didn't have a dad and everyone else did, if you had money and everyone else didn't, or vice versa. We buy in very early to this, I'm different, I'm different. And you're not different, you're the same. So you have to stop looking for what makes you different, because that's the confirmation bias. Whatever you look for, you're going to find it. I mean, I was a principal's daughter. I felt different the day I went to school, my whole childhood, because my dad was the headmaster. And that was actually horrible. I realize now that was not a good thing.

• 1:02:38Marisa Peer?

  But I was always looking for what made me different. And then it became a self fulfilling prophecy. I kept looking for it. Plus, you know, I could hypnotize people and that made me feel even more different. I had this kind of ability to work out what's wrong with someone really quickly. And that's both good and bad. It's actually good. But whatever you look for, you will find, whatever you are moving towards, you'll get more of. If you look for why your head is killing you, or say, I'm a bit dehydrated, I'm going to drink some water. Rub some lavender on my head, I'll be fine in twenty minutes. You've got to decide where you're going. And if you look for what makes you different, you will find it over and over again. But if you say, well, why don't I look for what makes me the same?

• 1:03:22Marisa Peer?

  We're all the same somewhere. Then you'll find that too. And it can be very hard if you're dealing with someone who's violent or aggressive or acting out. But if you can look for what makes you the same and not different. It really changes your life because then you can't be disconnected.

• 1:03:41Jillian Turecki?

  Right.

• 1:03:41Marisa Peer?

  And you can go all over the world. You can hang out with tribes, you know, and my friend was in Rwanda with the gorillas. And actually, if you think you're like them, I did this thing of walking with wolves. And the first thing you must do is you have to crouch down. You mustn't bare your teeth. You can't wear wool. And the wolf comes up and it decides that you're a wolf. And then you go for a walk and it keeps rounding you back up. If you walk away, it takes you back into the wolf pack. Because it thinks you're one of them. And if you can make a wolf think you're one of them, or a gorilla.

• 1:04:09Jillian Turecki?

  Right.

• 1:04:09Marisa Peer?

  Then of course you can do it with people, but you have to start from, I'm like you, you're like me. I'm the same as you and I can connect with you somewhere, somehow.

• 1:04:21Jillian Turecki?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:22Marisa Peer?

  Stop looking for what makes you different and look for what makes you the same. Because it really is life changing.

• 1:04:28Lewis Howes?

  I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you, if no one has told you lately, that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter.

• 1:05:12Lewis Howes?

  And now it's time to go out there and do something great.