How Does Paul Hollywood Dunk His Cookies?

On The Great British Bake Off, Paul Hollywood is known for his tough but fair judgments, his piercing blue eyes, and his handshake, which he offers to a contestant only when they really impress him. But before he was ever a TV judge, he was a baker. When he first started doing TV appearances, it was nothing more than “icing on the cake” of his baking career.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dan Pashman?

  There's nothing quite like Aruba. The white sand beaches are truly unlike anything you've seen. But what really stands out is the food. Because Aruba is not like other Caribbean islands. French pastries, Spanish paella, Peruvian barbecue, papardelle that has no business being that good that far from Florence. Not to mention the local fair. Aruba's food scene pulls you in with its astonishing variety of cuisines and beyond satisfies you with its unexpected flavors. So plan your escape to culinary delight at aruba.com. Your taste buds will thank you. Start the day strong with Quaker protein products. Quaker makes it easy and delicious to get a good source of protein. No matter what the day has in store, Quaker protein products give you a variety of ways to reach your protein goals.

• 0:45Dan Pashman?

  Oatmeal, granola, bars, and rice snacks in flavors you already love, like maple and brown sugar and blueberries and cream. Quaker protein helps fuel you to start whatever's next. Get your protein with Quaker, available at a store near you.

• 1:10Speaker 01

  That's good chocolate. That's really good chocolate. You can smell it. It's the slight maltiness to it as well.

• 1:16Dan Pashman?

  Paul cracked the chocolate cookie in half and has the interior a half a millimeter from his nose.

• 1:22Speaker 01

  I have to try and dunk that. See, that's holding.

• 1:24Dan Pashman?

  It's holding well. He dunked into the tea.

• 1:25Speaker 01

  That's holding. That's like a marine.

• 1:29Speaker 01

  Oh, that worked. There's a lot of chocolate in that. Wow.

• 1:32Dan Pashman?

  Is there such a thing as too much chocolate?

• 1:35Speaker 01

  I didn't, I would have thought so, but not in this. But that's delicious.

• 1:43Dan Pashman?

  This is the Sporkful. It's not for foodies, it's for eaters. I'm Dan Pashman. Each week on our show, we obsess about food to learn more about people. And before we get to the show, I want to let you all know that registration for my 2026 pasta tour in Italy is now open. This year's tour, 2025 edition, sold out months in advance. So get on it, come eat pasta and so much more with me in Italy. All the details are at culinarybackstreets.com/sporkful. All right, let's get to the show.

• 2:16Dan Pashman?

  This week, I'm talking with Paul Hollywood, a longtime judge on The Great British Bake Off, the massively popular show that's known here in the US as The Great British Baking Show. Same show, just a different name. When Great British Bake Off premiered on the BBC 15 years ago, there were plenty of skeptics. A show featuring amateur bakers competing? Who would watch that when there were already so many competition shows out there with pros? One of the program's creators was told the concept would be as exciting as watching paint dry. But against all odds, the show has become an international phenomenon and made stars out of its judges, Prue Leith and Paul Hollywood. Paul is known for his tough but fair judging, his piercing blue eyes, and his handshake, which he offers

• 2:57Dan Pashman?

  to a contestant only when they really impress him. As you'll hear, Paul's expertise is well-earned. He's been a baker his whole life, apprenticing under his father, who was also a baker. And Paul's written a number of cookbooks, including his latest, Celebrate: Joyful Baking All Year Round. In an earlier book entitled Bake, he started a section on cookies by writing, quote, "I can assure you that all the cookies in this chapter fully stand up to the dunk test."

• 3:23Speaker 01

  Obviously, being British, I drink tea. I like to have a mug of tea. I say mug, it's more like bucket. And when I get a cookie, I should be able to put my cookie into the warm tea and hold it for at least five seconds, lift it, and it shouldn't collapse.

• 3:39Dan Pashman?

  You're saying five seconds and no crumbs?

• 3:42Speaker 01

  No, nothing. It shouldn't, because it holds together with the liquid. If it's got a lot of butter in there, then as soon as you put it in, it evaporates and the whole thing goes to the bottom of your-

• 3:51Dan Pashman?

  Because the butter turns soft.

• 3:52Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then you end up, there's a panic, which I've never felt before, where you dive for a spoon to grab the cookie that's sitting right at the bottom of your mug of tea.

• 4:02Dan Pashman?

  I love a good dunk, but I have the issue you're describing, which is I get crumbs in the tier of coffee.

• 4:08Speaker 01

  Wrong cookie.

• 4:09Dan Pashman?

  But the chocolate chip cookie I had brought him, the one he sniffed with delight, was definitely the right cookie for dunking. I got it at Brad's Bakery in New York, near our studio. We were dunking the cookies into tea in the British way, but I wanted to see what Paul thought about an American spin on the dunk test. I would love to have you also try dunking it in milk and tell me what you think of that. The chocolate chip cookie into milk is a pretty classic American thing.

• 4:30Speaker 01

  Warm milk or cold milk?

• 4:31Dan Pashman?

  Cold milk. He's dunked into the milk.

• 4:36Speaker 01

  Very similar, but you want the warmth of the tea.

• 4:39Dan Pashman?

  Oh.

• 4:40Speaker 01

  That's what gives you that. In Denmark, they call it huga. Huga is where you feel, I suppose it's akin to a hug.

• 4:48Dan Pashman?

  It's a good coziness.

• 4:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's coziness. It's when the fire's on, open fire, and it's winter and you're sitting there cuddling with a cup of tea, watching your best program.

• 4:56Dan Pashman?

  Have you ever seen Frozen the Musical, which I gather you haven't?

• 5:01Dan Pashman?

  But I have, with my daughters, and there's a whole song called huga.

• 5:05Speaker 01

  Right, okay.

• 5:06Dan Pashman?

  Okay.

• 5:06Speaker 01

  It's exactly where it comes from.

• 5:08Dan Pashman?

  Yeah, okay.

• 5:08Speaker 01

  That works.

• 5:09Dan Pashman?

  It works.

• 5:10Speaker 01

  Prefer it in the tea.

• 5:11Dan Pashman?

  Prefer it in the tea, but you're okay with it in the milk?

• 5:13Speaker 01

  But it got the milk.

• 5:14Dan Pashman?

  Okay. Do you want to try also an Oreo? Have you ever dunked an Oreo?

• 5:16Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, go on.

• 5:17Dan Pashman?

  All right.

• 5:18Speaker 01

  I add Oreos. I like Oreos.

• 5:20Dan Pashman?

  Yeah.

• 5:20Speaker 01

  They're fairly new in the UK.

• 5:22Dan Pashman?

  Yeah.

• 5:22Speaker 01

  Let's say five years, 10 years.

• 5:24Dan Pashman?

  Can I pitch you on an Oreo technique?

• 5:26Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 5:26Dan Pashman?

  Are you actually twisting it and separating it?

• 5:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, we do that with the, with our vanilla custards.

• 5:31Dan Pashman?

  Right. So I like to twist it, separate it, then take the blank chocolate cookie, the one that has no cream on it, put it under the other cookie.

• 5:38Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 5:38Dan Pashman?

  So now the cream side is facing up and you have two cookies underneath.

• 5:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:42Dan Pashman?

  Now flip it upside down, so the cream side is going to land on your tongue when you take a bite.

• 5:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, but why?

• 5:50Dan Pashman?

  Because you taste the cream better. Go on, try it. Take one bite. Tell me what you think.

• 5:55Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 5:59Dan Pashman?

  It's a whole different experience.

• 6:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, it does change it a little bit. Um, I don't get it, but I, I, I.

• 6:09Dan Pashman?

  As I said, baking has always been a part of Paul's life. When he was born, the family lived in an apartment upstairs from his dad's bakery. His father specialized in sausage rolls and savory baked goods. They moved when Paul was little, but stayed in the area around Liverpool.

• 6:23Speaker 01

  Growing up, it was my dad coming in from work normally first thing on a Saturday morning, been working all night. And I remember getting covered in flour when I ran it, ran up and gave him a hug when I was a kid. Same thing happened with my kid when I was, when I was going back from work, my son used to run up and give me a hug, and he'd get encased in flour. I suppose it's been passed down, but I think baking, I remember dad, my dad making bread rolls and rising them in front of our gas fire. And it was a slow, proven, trying to lift up these little, these tea towels to look underneath this dough, see and it grow mysteriously, grow and go, what, what's going, I didn't understand what's going on, but they tasted amazing when he baked them, the smell was incredible.

• 7:03Dan Pashman?

  But it sounds like even if you didn't understand what was going on, you were curious.

• 7:06Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, there was definitely a curiosity there.

• 7:08Dan Pashman?

  As a kid, Paul was also exposed to baking in other ways. Church events featured all the British classics, and there was TV. He used to watch a show with his dad called Generation Game.

• 7:17Speaker 01

  Basically, it's like, um, you get four teams, normally family, uh, father and daughter or mother and son or whatever, and they get set a challenge, uh, where they used to get this baker come on and they do piping or plating or braiding or whatever, and they had to produce what he, what he did.

• 7:34Dan Pashman?

  So an expert demonstrates something, could be a dance routine or a craft or some kind of baking, and then the family that are the contestants has to replicate it.

• 7:42Speaker 01

  It's family show, Saturday evening, huge figures, thirty million people used to watch it.

• 7:47Speaker 02

  Thank you very much, Dave. Good evening, ladies, gentlemen and children. Welcome to another edition and a new edition of the Generation Game. Nice to see you again, to see you again.

• 7:59Speaker 02

  Lovely. And you know, it's thirty six weeks.

• 8:00Speaker 01

  And so I grew up on that and it was just a fantastic thing to watch, very much a family program, which I think Bake Off is that now, and I think it's, it's still one of those family shows that if you're five or ninety five can still watch.

• 8:11Dan Pashman?

  When you were watching it as a kid, there was a moment that a baker came on. So you're six or seven years old, and so what are you thinking watching that on TV?

• 8:18Speaker 01

  I was, I was curious, cause I was looking at my dad going, can you do that? You know, can you do this? And he's going, I can do that. Oh. And I think maybe it's little things like that would stay with you and you reminds you of your youth.

• 8:28Dan Pashman?

  So Paul was interested in baking long before he could do it. But when he got into his teens, he started helping out at his dad's shop on Saturdays to earn a bit of money. He learned some lessons very quickly.

• 8:38Speaker 01

  The lads used to deliberately burn me. So they'd say, pass me that tray over there. I'd go over and just grab the tray, which had just come out the oven and literally be scalded, third degree burns. Uh, my dad would often lose it then and say, what are you doing, my son? But in the end, I, I learned very quickly to tap a tray before I picked it up. And then I, that stuck with me for a long time. Even today, if I'm in a bakery, I'd tap a tray before I lift it.

• 9:01Dan Pashman?

  That's literal trial, trial by fire. Working there as a teen, Paul learned a lot, not only about baking, but also about running a business. His dad set up the place so customers could watch the bakers work and see things being baked to add a personal touch. This became one of the bakery's calling cards when Paul's dad expanded, eventually opening locations across northeast England.

• 9:21Speaker 01

  And so for me, watching my dad do well and ended up with a nice big house. And I remember when I was young, my mum and dad divorced, but my dad had a Rolls Royce. And watching my dad going, my dad's a baker and he drives a Rolls Royce? How does that work?

• 9:36Dan Pashman?

  Maybe I'll get into baking.

• 9:38Speaker 01

  Exactly. Hmm, interesting. I might do that myself.

• 9:42Dan Pashman?

  But at the time, Paul put aside ideas of baking, instead enrolling in art school, following more in his mother's footsteps. She was a graphic designer.

• 9:50Speaker 01

  I looked like, I mean, I was called JC in art school because I had blue eyes and long hair.

• 9:56Dan Pashman?

  Like Jesus Christ.

• 9:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was JC. I'd stubble. I was a bit of a hippie. So my mum sort of grew up in the sixties. I used to wear kaftans, you know? So I used to go in like two pairs of jeans with Zosa and Zeppelin all over my trousers. And there was a kaftan, then a Wrangler jacket, and then a black velvet blazer over that with bands in my long hair at the time. I mean, I thought I looked cool. I mean, I looked like a Burke. But it was one of those things which, you know, at the time, it was, that's what I was into in art school.

• 10:29Dan Pashman?

  What did you like about art school?

• 10:31Speaker 01

  I think it was the time you could spend on a piece of art. I might spend months on a piece of art, certainly if I was doing sculpture. And I'd be building up the armature. I used to do a lot of horses in clay and then get them cast for my exam. Loved it though.

• 10:46Dan Pashman?

  And then you made a switch. What prompted that?

• 10:50Speaker 01

  Money. And I think I prostituted myself to my industry from that age. My dad approached me and said, get your hair cut, son. Come and join the industry and I'll pay you 500 quid. Now, 500 quid back in the early eighties was a fair whack of money.

• 11:02Dan Pashman?

  It wasn't nothing.

• 11:03Speaker 01

  No. And I thought, okay. So literally I went from long hair to shaved hair overnight, but I had 500 pound in my pocket. Maggie Thatcher was in power at the time and I remember watching the news, all these people, especially in my area in Liverpool, everyone needed a trade.

• 11:21Dan Pashman?

  That was not a good time economically in England.

• 11:24Speaker 01

  It was bad.

• 11:24Dan Pashman?

  Right.

• 11:25Speaker 01

  And if you had a trade, you had a job. You had a job, you had money. And that was critical in the eighties. So for me to go off and learn a trade from my dad, then that's great because no matter where I go in the rest of my life, I have a trade. I am a baker and I could go and earn money somewhere.

• 11:40Dan Pashman?

  By the time Paul was in his early twenties, he was managing one of his dad's bakeries. But after six years with his dad, he moved on, baking at several prestigious hotels in London. His reputation grew quickly.

• 11:51Speaker 01

  I was offered jobs in Miami. I was offered jobs in New York. I was offered jobs in Mediterranean. And then I was poached by the Foreign Minister of Cyprus, Mr. Michalides. And they approached me to say, would you like a job in Cyprus? And I thought, okay, so flew across for a three day interview, two of which I was so blind drunk, I don't remember because the Cypriots were so, they brought me in and we went out for a drink. And literally they just gave me all this zivania, which I'd no, it was like 80% proof. It was like firewater.

• 12:19Dan Pashman?

  Right.

• 12:20Speaker 01

  And this thing just wiped me out and I'd set up all this baking to show the bosses what I could do. The next day I could barely walk, let alone see. So in the end, I managed to crawl into work later on that day and set everything up. Had a meeting the next day. They offered me the job. And in the end, what originally was going to be a year contract ended up being six. And I just fell in love with Cyprus.

• 12:40Dan Pashman?

  And you traveled around the Middle East. It sounds like that was also like exposure to different cultures, different cuisines, different types of baking.

• 12:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, I fell in love. I did a lot of traveling. So I went to Jordan. I went to Syria. I went to Egypt, Israel. Jordan, I found amazing. I thought Jordan was incredible. Petra and her man.

• 12:56Dan Pashman?

  How did those travels influence your baking?

• 13:00Speaker 01

  Oh, hugely, a huge amounts. I mean, if you look at the Middle East, if you look at certainly from Jordan, Israel and going out to Iran, Iraq, you look at the flatbreads that are, that have been around for a long time. The first risen breads were in Egypt because they were the invaders, not the invadees. So they were in one place. They never got invaded. So they could build these huge ovens and grow the first sourdough. So history is bread and I found that fascinating.

• 13:25Dan Pashman?

  And it was also in Cyprus that you got your first television opportunity.

• 13:28Speaker 01

  I did, yeah.

• 13:29Dan Pashman?

  Well, how did that happen?

• 13:30Speaker 01

  I was working in the hotel and the F and B director came on, said they're doing some filming with the chef today, an English company. They'd like you to be involved. And I went, right, okay. So I did some filming with them. They said, you're really good on television. You should do something when you go back to the UK. And I went, well, I've got no intention of going back to the UK. And they said, well, maybe you should. Okay. So I thought about it. And then they gave me a business card. And in the end, I thought, I'll go back.

• 13:54Dan Pashman?

  Paul returned to the UK and launched the Paul Hollywood Artisan Bread Company, which supplied bread to high end retail stores like Harrods. In 2005, he published his first book, 100 Great Breads. It won a bunch of awards and was published in 10 countries. Around this time, he also became a regular on British TV, stopping by shows to bake something, promoting his bakeries and cookbooks.

• 14:15Speaker 01

  Someone said that I was, I would lionize a screen, whichever that, whatever that was, that I had the X factor, which was something that people were looking for. I didn't know what they're looking for. I was just trying to be myself. I was always told, be yourself on camera. And that way, when you, when you're doing your TV work, there's no mask to slip because it's you. And so the whole idea was to try and be as natural as possible, which is what I've always tried to do.

• 14:40Dan Pashman?

  That brings up a question I wanted to ask you. So like during that period, as your career is taking off, your cookbook's taking off, you're, you're opening your businesses, your career's growing. How were you thinking of TV? Were you thinking like, this is a way to promote my bakeries and my cookbooks? Or were you thinking like, this might actually be where my career is headed?

• 14:57Speaker 01

  No, it was the cream on the cake. The cake was the business. It was just a bit of cream on the top, which is fine. You think, well, this is running for pretty easy stuff, you know? I had no idea it could turn into a cake. And I think one of the hardest parts for me with the business was, I think when I was running the business, it was very difficult for me to keep in the business while I was still working. I've spoken to a lot of guys like Jamie Oliver and other people have been through a similar thing. When you have a business, which it's your bakery, but you have to spend so much time away, either writing or filming, you're never going to be able to get down to, to do your main job because you're away all the time. And when you're away. Your staff are not there with any leadership. So in the end, I gave it all up and then started doing more television.

• 15:41Speaker 01

  But that again was, it's like monkey bar and you have to let go of one to grab the other. It's a really difficult thing to do because it's about trust and and knowledge in your own ability. And I, it was a nervous time for me.

• 15:55Dan Pashman?

  And that's actually a really interesting analogy, the monkey bars, right? Because it is like I've had those situations in my own career that it's, you have something that feels stable.

• 16:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:03Dan Pashman?

  You got a good grip on one bar.

• 16:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:05Dan Pashman?

  And you see the next bar up, but you're kind of like, but I got a really good grip on this one. And it's scary, it's scary to reach for the next.

• 16:12Speaker 01

  There's benefits.

• 16:13Dan Pashman?

  Right, but there are risks.

• 16:14Speaker 01

  But there are big risks, yeah. And I think when I took the plunge, it took about, I would say about six months for it to find its feet. Before I felt comfortable with the fact that, am I in enough money here? You know, am I going to be okay? Because you're relying solely on something you have no real control of.

• 16:34Dan Pashman?

  Like opportunities from other people.

• 16:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:36Dan Pashman?

  Opportunities from publishers, opportunities from television producers.

• 16:39Speaker 01

  Essentially, I'm working for other people again.

• 16:40Dan Pashman?

  Right.

• 16:41Speaker 01

  Whereas before I was working for myself. Now I'm reliant on people going, you're commissioned for another year, you're commissioned for six months. And you're living day by day, which before it was my business, I ran it, it was up to me what happened. And that took a bit of, bit of thought to get to that process, you know?

• 17:00Dan Pashman?

  So Paul was all in on TV and it was going pretty well. Then he received a pitch for a very unusual new show in development.

• 17:07Speaker 01

  They were talking about this thing in a tent. I was working with an old lady, their words. And I said, old lady. And straight away I said, is that Mary Berry? And they went, what? How did you, what? And I said, well, I haven't met her before. And then he went, oh, please keep it quiet.

• 17:23Dan Pashman?

  That's coming up, stick around.

• 17:31Speaker 03

  Time to cook up some advertisements.

• 17:36Dan Pashman?

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• 18:18Dan Pashman?

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• 19:01Dan Pashman?

  and Beyond satisfies you with its unexpected flavors. So plan your escape to culinary delight at aruba.com. Your taste buds will thank you. Start the day strong with Quaker Protein Products. Quaker makes it easy and delicious to get a good source of protein. No matter what the day has in store, Quaker Protein Products give you a variety of ways to reach your protein goals. Oatmeal, granola, bars, and rice snacks in flavors you already love, like maple and brown sugar, and blueberries and cream. Quaker Protein helps fuel you to start whatever's next. Get your protein with Quaker, available at a store near you. Last year, right around this time, I got a new jacket from Quince, a lightweight

• 19:41Dan Pashman?

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• 20:24Dan Pashman?

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• 20:46Dan Pashman?

  Welcome back to The Sporkful. I'm Dan Pashman. And if you are a great British Bake Off fan, make sure you check out this past Friday's reheat, featuring former Bake Off champ Nadia Hussain. We had a great conversation. You're gonna love this one. And for our episode last Monday, I spoke with Rosie Grant, who just published a new cookbook called To Die For, A Cookbook of Gravestone Recipes. Yes, gravestone recipes, they're basically what they sound like. Gravestones, like in a cemetery, that have recipes written on them, instead of or in addition to a standard epitaph. Rosie's been collecting gravestone recipes from across the country for years now. She's gotten a sense of what kinds of recipes are most popular.

• 21:22Speaker 04

  I've heard before that cookies are pretty simple in instructions, and so it fits quite nicely onto a gravestone. You know, you only have so many characters, you only have so much space. It's also expensive, like per character, if you're paying that way. It adds up very quickly.

• 21:37Dan Pashman?

  Is that how you pay for headstones? It's like per character?

• 21:40Speaker 04

  It depends on your area when you're, you know, buying a headstone. So some places, you just pay for the space, but in some places, you're paying per letter.

• 21:48Dan Pashman?

  There's an actual character limit on the headstones?

• 21:50Speaker 04

  Yeah, exactly. It's like a tweet.

• 21:53Dan Pashman?

  Rosie explains why this project is so meaningful to her and we talk with someone who put her mom's cookie recipe on her headstone. Then we find a woman who put her recipe on her own headstone and we talk to her. Ooh, spooky. That episode's up now, check it out. Finally, make sure you stay tuned all the way to the end of this episode for a very special bonus segment brought to you by the National Pork Pork. All right, back to Paul Hollywood, whose new cookbook is Celebrate: Joyful Baking All Year Round. When we left off, he'd been approached about being on some yet unnamed baking show that would take place outside, under a tent. Paul was skeptical, but he auditioned for the producers.

• 22:31Speaker 01

  They turned up with two bags of baked stuff in my house, in my kitchen, tipped it onto the side and said, judge these. I said, what do you mean? He said, just tell us what you think of it. I went, that's awful, that texture is terrible, that, what is that? That's, that is, what? I wouldn't give that to my dog. And I went through everything else. And then he said, that's brilliant, we're gonna go. And I thought, another producer wasting my time.

• 22:54Dan Pashman?

  But turns out, it wasn't a waste of time. Paul went to London for a screen test and after some more waiting and winnowing down, he got the gig as a judge on Great British Bake Off. His fellow judge would be Mary Berry, an esteemed English baker and TV host. The comedy duo of Mel Giedroich and Sue Perkins would co-host.

• 23:10Speaker 01

  And I went, great. Have you actually got this commission? And they went, yes. We start filming in two months. So I went, in a tent? With people baking outside and when it's cold outside, we're gonna be in a tent with Mel and Sue and Mary and I judging? Yes. You're crazy. Okay, this is gonna be fun. And that's how it all started.

• 23:30Dan Pashman?

  What, what were you thinking the first time you saw the tent?

• 23:34Speaker 01

  Ridiculous. I was looking for a trapeze because I thought it was like some sort of weird circus. And I turned, it was a cold, cold day. I drove up there and we were staying in a hotel just down the way and caught up with Mel and Sue. And I was just having a drink, a cup of tea with Mary and I said, what do you think? She goes, oh, it's freezing. I said, I'm not sure how this is gonna work, you know?

• 23:56Dan Pashman?

  The weather did eventually warm up and after a few episodes, everything started coming together.

• 24:00Speaker 01

  We had an indication, I think, from the fourth program we were filming, from the editors to say that the program is cutting really well and it's really good. And we were going, okay, this is unusual, this, we could be on to something.

• 24:16Dan Pashman?

  As they soon learned, they were on to something. The show climbed from 2 million viewers in its first season to 11 million in year six. People tuned in for the genteel English countryside, the bakers with their charming backstories, and the quirky and unique bakes they made every week. Viewers were especially taken with how nice the bakers were to each other, offering a hand or a tip to fellow bakers they were supposed to be competing with. But is the show really all so nice? Former Bake Off contestant Ruby Tando wrote a story just a few weeks ago about her experience on the show. I do want to read this quote to you to get your take. Ruby Tando, who was a contestant who did quite well on the show back in 2013, I think she was, she made it to the final round, I believe.

• 24:57Speaker 01

  That's right, yeah, she did.

• 24:58Dan Pashman?

  She wrote a piece just recently in The New Yorker.

• 25:00Speaker 01

  I saw it.

• 25:01Dan Pashman?

  Oh, you did?

• 25:01Speaker 01

  I did.

• 25:02Dan Pashman?

  Okay. But one of the things she said that I'm curious to ask about, she wrote, "No show does so much to hide its true nature, namely that it's a competition people desperately want to win."

• 25:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's true.

• 25:13Dan Pashman?

  "This is the essential hypocrisy of Bake Off, and it remains the most British thing about it."

• 25:18Speaker 01

  Yeah. Bake Off is what it is. It's a very gentle, it's a very nice program, but it's a competition. It's a competition, and if you want to win, you have to do well. You can be nice and do well, and you can be horrible and do well. Because I don't care what personality you are. What I care about is what's on the plate. And so there lies the competition. It's not the people, it's actually the bake itself's important to me.

• 25:44Dan Pashman?

  I did think it's interesting the way she says that this is something very British. Because I lived in London for a time. I, of course, wouldn't pretend to know British culture as well as you do. But there is something sort of puritanical in the culture that I think sort of says that striving is somehow uncouth.

• 26:01Speaker 01

  I think, yeah. I think Americans celebrate success more than the Brits do.

• 26:07Dan Pashman?

  On Bake Off, the main goal each episode is to win Star Baker for the week. But there is a distinction a baker can earn that's even more prestigious. They can get a handshake from Paul for an especially good bake. Now, these handshakes are extremely rare. Bakers and viewers obsess over who gets them and when. Paul explains how it started.

• 26:26Speaker 01

  I gave someone a handshake because I thought they did an amazing job. And it was a genuine, "Well done, that is impressive." And then I did it again, maybe the following year or later that way. And then people started noticing it and that's where it started really quite innocently.

• 26:41Dan Pashman?

  But then over the years, perhaps inadvertently, the number of handshakes increased. And there were like whole think pieces, all this hand wringing of the number of Paul's handshakes. It's going up.

• 26:52Speaker 01

  He's devalued, he's devalued his own handshake. I mean, I get people, builders coming into my house who are doing work on the telephone lines or in the electric or whatever. And they open the door and they go, nice to meet you. And the hand's out.

• 27:03Dan Pashman?

  Right.

• 27:04Speaker 01

  And I go, where's my cake? I can't shake your hand unless I've got a cake.

• 27:10Dan Pashman?

  Well, I gave you a chocolate chip cookie. Maybe I'll get a handshake at the end there.

• 27:13Speaker 01

  I do think that the thing is about the handshake, it's sort of grown into this huge monster. I don't, I'm quite sparing with them now, to be honest.

• 27:22Dan Pashman?

  Did you scale back in response to people saying that it was?

• 27:25Speaker 01

  Well, no, I scaled back because the problem is every year the bakers got better and better. And therefore the handshakes are going to get more and more. So what I've done over the couple of years is reset the bar and said, right, that's the bar now. And then sure enough, one or two has jumped over the top and I've gone brilliant.

• 27:42Dan Pashman?

  It's also increasingly, I gather, a challenge that the bakers know your personal taste.

• 27:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:48Dan Pashman?

  They know what you like, so they can kind of try to gear their bakes.

• 27:52Speaker 01

  I do exactly the same thing. I like citrus. I like key lime pie. If you make me a key lime pie and it's a good one, you're probably going to do really well.

• 28:01Dan Pashman?

  But I wonder though, because those are your favorites and because you have probably had more of them in your life. It could go the opposite way, which is that you have higher standards for key lime pie.

• 28:10Speaker 01

  There's the risk.

• 28:13Speaker 01

  But to be honest, you'll probably do well. Just don't give me matcha. I'm not, I'm not that keen on matcha. So I have to, I have to disassociate myself from my taste buds briefly.

• 28:24Dan Pashman?

  How do you deal with it when you encounter less familiar ingredients?

• 28:28Speaker 01

  Less familiar I like because I'm testing myself and I want to see what it tastes like. I want to, want a bit of history, teach me, show me. I'm always open to, to learning different things.

• 28:38Dan Pashman?

  Last year Dylan made gochujang and garlic buns. And you and Prue were not familiar with gochujang.

• 28:43Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 28:43Dan Pashman?

  Which to be honest, was a little bit surprising to me because that's an ingredient, at least here in the US.

• 28:47Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 28:47Dan Pashman?

  Well beyond Korean restaurants, which is of course where it comes from.

• 28:50Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 28:51Dan Pashman?

  I live pretty far out in the suburbs. And I, probably five years ago, I was at a food truck run by like an Italian American guy named Tony. And he was serving fried chicken sandwiches with gochujang. So it's far beyond, it's not like a trendy upscale, you know, ingredient, you know.

• 29:06Speaker 01

  Well, that it would have been for would have been for us in the in the in the UK there. So I live in the middle of nowhere in Kent. So no, there's no way I was going to come across that flavor.

• 29:14Dan Pashman?

  Right.

• 29:15Speaker 01

  Um, and again, if there's a lot of Korean restaurants, which had started happening in the UK now, it's all to do with the amount of Korean restaurants you have and Korean influences in the in the in the area. If I was to go to a Korean um part of London, then I would have hit it before, but I just hadn't been there. So therefore I hadn't seen it.

• 29:32Dan Pashman?

  There was a piece in Vulture here in the US that suggested that the show should add one more judge who maybe is someone who has experience with some of the flavors and ingredients that you and Prue don't have. What are your thoughts on that?

• 29:44Speaker 01

  Uh, again, as I said before, that's got nothing to do with my idea of flavor and what I do or don't like. A bake is a bake that's good bake. Whether the flavor comes through or not is a factual thing. The whether I like it or not is completely different. It's that that's a way for me. I'm judging what's on the plate and what it looks like. And is the flavor that they're saying in there in there? If it is, then it is. Whether I identify it or not is immaterial. Um, it's how it looks and how it tastes.

• 30:09Dan Pashman?

  And for the record, Dylan got a handshake for his gochujang and garlic buns. And there have been other bakes over the years with ingredients Paul doesn't love, but that he gave high marks to anyway.

• 30:17Speaker 01

  I mean, I'm not a massive fan of tofu. However, there's only one person on this world that got a handshake because of their tofu, and that was David Schwimmer.

• 30:26Dan Pashman?

  Sometimes celebrities come on the show to raise money for a cause. David Schwimmer came out a couple of years ago to raise money for cancer research.

• 30:33Speaker 05

  I am making a vegetable and tofu curry pot pie. My daughter enjoys a plant-based diet, so this is really for her.

• 30:43Speaker 01

  He came on the show and made a tofu curry pie, which is one of the best things I've eaten for a long time. I had to give him a handshake. He burst into tears. I almost burst into tears because it was that good.

• 30:54Speaker 05

  Come on.

• 30:54Speaker 01

  I've never had tofu that I've enjoyed before. Wow. That is a fantastic pie.

• 30:59Speaker 05

  Made my year. Thank you. Thanks so much.

• 31:05Dan Pashman?

  One of the byproducts of your success and especially the success of Bake Off is that you become a big celebrity, which is a strange thing. I think it's funny that I think that people who aren't famous assume that being famous must be the greatest. And obviously it has its perks. I don't really if you ever got that Rolls Royce, but like there are some perks to it. But but it's not all sunshine.

• 31:31Speaker 01

  No, it's not. And I think I'm friends with Nick Mason, who's the drummer of Pink Floyd. And I've had many a drink with Nick and Mill of the Night and a couple of beers. He would say he had the best job in the world. He was in one of the biggest rock bands in the world, and yet nobody knew him. And so he would be at the back playing the drums, earning the money with the rest of the guys from Floyd. And yet he could walk down the street, walk down to the shops, and not many people would recognize him. And it's still the case now. And so that's the best job in the world. I think the benefits, obviously financially are there. The fame side of things, I didn't know that it would be so intrusive and your

• 32:12Speaker 01

  everything about your life is is probed. Would I have done it? No, I probably wouldn't have done. Because I think everyone's entitled to a private life. And I do think America is slightly different to the UK. The tabloids in the UK are brutal. And I think the tabloids over in the US aren't quite as brutal. I think they do appreciate that people do have some form of private life.

• 32:33Dan Pashman?

  I read that you had to give up cycling because the paparazzi were hounding you.

• 32:37Speaker 01

  I didn't want to get I didn't want to get photographed in Lycra. I mean, that's that's all it was. I didn't want to be photographed in Lycra on my bike, however quick it is. I could never get away from my car.

• 32:50Dan Pashman?

  But there is a solution to that, Paul. Just take one picture of yourself in Lycra, release it publicly, and then now the paparazzi can't make any money off a picture of Paul in Lycra.

• 32:59Speaker 01

  I used to go out on the motorbike a lot because I could wear a black black visor and disappear.

• 33:04Dan Pashman?

  Get a helmet on.

• 33:05Speaker 01

  But I fly as well. I fly helicopters. And I've been learning how to fly for a few years now. And I thoroughly enjoy that. So there are benefits to what I do. And to be able to to fly as I do now, I just love it, you know, love it.

• 33:18Dan Pashman?

  So if I could go back to Paul 20 years ago and say, like, you're gonna have all this success, you're gonna make a good bit of money, but the trade off is that you're gonna be it's gonna be hard for you to walk down the street in the UK.

• 33:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:30Dan Pashman?

  You would say, I'll pass.

• 33:31Speaker 01

  I'll pass. Yeah.

• 33:33Dan Pashman?

  Couldn't you still walk away now? Or is it too, is the cat out of the bag?

• 33:37Speaker 01

  Cat's out of the bag, innit? I mean, in 10 years' time, someone will walk past me and say, wasn't that the guy who used to bake for 10 years ago? So it's always there, you know, the, the, the image of me getting old on telly for the last 16 years, when my hair was darker and now I look like Gandalf. So I can't do anything about that.

• 33:59Dan Pashman?

  When he's not on TV or flying helicopters, Paul is still baking and writing cookbooks. His new one is Celebrate: Joyful Baking All Year Round. It's a collection of recipes for special occasions and gatherings grouped by season. Asparagus feta tart for spring, strawberry scones for summer, apple donuts and rich chocolate confections for the colder months. Now, one of, I'm not, I'm more of a savory, I'm more of a cook than a baker.

• 34:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:24Dan Pashman?

  One of the things that I struggle with when I'm going to bake something for a celebration, for some kind of gathering, is how far in advance to make it? Because I want it to be fresh, but like, you don't necessarily want to cover something if it's still warm. How do you think about timing when you're thinking about a bake that you're gonna bring somewhere?

• 34:42Speaker 01

  The day before is perfectly acceptable to make a cake and finish it. Pastry, ideally, you want to make the pastry the morning or the night. The day before, you can prepare like a puff pastry. The next morning, you can wrap and bake it so it's fresh and warm and crispy. But you can reheat these, so again, you can reheat a lot of this. Cooking, you have to do there and then, but baking, you can prepare. So there's plenty of time to scope of allowing a time and a timetable to be fulfilled. So you're not rushing at the end.

• 35:13Dan Pashman?

  While I don't bake much, there's one baked good in particular that I spend a lot of time, some might say too much time, thinking about. You obviously, over the years, have done an infinite number of tray bakes, as you would call them, uh, which we call bars, anything cooked kind of in a square rectangular pan and then cut into squares.

• 35:32Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 35:32Dan Pashman?

  You have cherry marble cake bars in this book. I love bars. I especially love ones that have kind of like a, a firmer bottom, like a graham cracker crust perhaps, and then something sort of more gooey on top.

• 35:44Speaker 01

  Yes, yeah.

• 35:45Dan Pashman?

  Is your favorite piece of bar or tray bake, one from the center, one from the edge, or one from the corner and why?

• 35:53Speaker 01

  It depends. I, I tend to go for the corner because...

• 36:00Speaker 01

  If there's chocolate in there, it's a rocky road or anything like that, it tends to lip up with the so there's more chocolate in the corner pieces than there are in the middle pieces. If it's a millionaire shortbread or something like akin to that, I'll go for the middle one. So I tend to cut myself something slightly bigger out the side rather than the corner. Corner for chocolate, everything else middle.

• 36:21Dan Pashman?

  So it depends on kind of the ratios of the ingredients.

• 36:23Speaker 01

  Yes, it depends on what I like on the top of it.

• 36:27Dan Pashman?

  That's a good answer. I, for me, I don't know that it's as much about the ingredients, but I will inspect the different options.

• 36:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, great.

• 36:34Dan Pashman?

  If the topping is going all the way to the corner.

• 36:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:37Dan Pashman?

  Then I would also want the corner because I want that crispy edge that's inside the pan.

• 36:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, for sure.

• 36:41Dan Pashman?

  But if sometimes they're made where the kind of the topping doesn't make it all the way to the corner.

• 36:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:46Dan Pashman?

  And so then your corner piece is going to just kind of be very bread-y and without so much topping. And then I would probably go for an edge because I still want some edge.

• 36:54Speaker 01

  Or piece au laitier, which I've got in the book as well, which is basically onions, it's olives, it's delicious, anchovies and it's just stunning. But again, I always go for the middle one of that because you're encouraging more anchovies and onions in there. And there's lots of flavor with the olive tappin art as well. So I tend to go for the middle one because there's more filling on it there.

• 37:12Dan Pashman?

  Another recipe in the book, Hollywood hot dogs.

• 37:14Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 37:15Dan Pashman?

  These are hot dogs wrapped in like a bun.

• 37:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:18Dan Pashman?

  It's your savory bun recipe.

• 37:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's wrapped in dough.

• 37:21Dan Pashman?

  Right.

• 37:21Speaker 01

  Which is essentially what a hot dog is because normally you have to make a hole or slice and put the frankfurter or the sausage in it and have your your mustard and everything else on top of it and you eat it. What Hollywood hot dog is, is basically something I did a while ago and I revisited for this book because I thought I really like that idea. How am I going to write this? So the best thing to do is pick your favorite sausage, cook it three quarters of the way through. Then basically what you do is you make a basic white dough. Roll it out and then place your sausage on the dough all the way along. And then cut little triangles from them and then fill that with your onion, a bit of mustard, ketchup, whatever.

• 38:01Speaker 01

  And then roll the things up like a petit pan, like a roll and then seal it.

• 38:07Dan Pashman?

  I'm sure the French must love that analogy.

• 38:09Speaker 01

  Just seal the ends and seal the base and just roll it. So it's nice and neat. Now leave that to prove for about half an hour and then bake it off. But you glaze it with a bit of egg wash. And it looks like a normal, you know, sub, looks like a, just a normal sub, but after 10 minutes of it being out, bite into it, you have a hot dog with everything it's sealed inside and it's still warm. And it tastes delicious because you have a fresh bread as well.

• 38:34Dan Pashman?

  And it's also one of the things I would imagine you get with that, that you don't get with a traditional hot dog bun, is that you get a little, you get a little bit of a crisp on the exterior of the bread. So you get that, that variation in texture, you get a crispy exterior, then you get the soft doughy interior of the bread. Then you hit the meat and you get the pop of the skin of the hot dog and then the juice. I mean, that's like a multi-level experience.

• 38:53Speaker 01

  Absolutely. You should have got you to write this script. That sounds great.

• 38:57Dan Pashman?

  I'm getting hungry just thinking about it.

• 39:01Dan Pashman?

  Paul, as we sit here, you've been baking almost your whole life. You've been around baking, you've been baking since you were very young. You're now in your late 50s. So like it's nearly a half century. So you're, you're about to turn 60. So almost a half century of baking. Do you still love it?

• 39:21Speaker 01

  I do. I think the day I stopped loving it is the day I stopped doing what I do. I love it so much because I live in a very, I mean, I, I, it's a world that is, is crazy. It's, it's very quiet in my life, actually, away from, away from the tents. I just spend time with my wife, nice and quiet. And I love it, you know, I live in the middle of nowhere. I walk, walk the cats. They're massive. And I, I just love my quiet life. And when I go to work, my work is in a tent where I eat some of the most amazing things and meet the most amazing bakers with a great team. And so I'm, I'm very lucky. Um, I, I'd never thought it'd take me to this day all my life. I mean, but again, I still love going to work.

• 40:04Speaker 01

  And when I do go to work in April, it's always a little bit chilly. And I always spend about 10 minutes with just me in the tent. So I walk from my sort of changing area and I walk towards the tent. There's normally no one around at about half six in the morning. I normally just sit there leaning against the tree, just looking at the tent and saying hello to my friend again, because I've known it for so long.

• 40:33Dan Pashman?

  That's Paul Hollywood of The Great British Bake Off, aka The Great British Baking Show. His new cookbook is Celebrate: Joyful Baking All Year Round. It's out now. Get it wherever books are sold. And get this, if you want to win a copy of Celebrate, sign up for our newsletter by November 3rd. We're giving away one copy of the book to one of our newsletter subscribers. And remember that if you are a subscriber to our newsletter, you will be entered into all of our giveaways. So get on the list. If you don't win this time, you might win next time. Sign up now at sporkful.com/newsletter. If you're already a subscriber, you're already entered. You must be in the US or Canada to win. Next week on the show, another legendary baker and cookbook author, Dory Greenspan. I got to go to her house and watch her in action as she tests a new cookie recipe. It

• 41:15Dan Pashman?

  is a fascinating window into the process of a person that everyone says is one of the best recipe writers anywhere. If you're getting ready to bake some cookies this holiday season, this episode is for you. By the way, for that one, make sure you check out last week's show where I talked with Rosie Grant, whose new cookbook is To Die For: A Cookbook of Gravestone Recipes. Plus, we'll hear from someone who put a recipe on her own gravestone. How is that possible? Listen to find out. That one's up now. And hey, did you know you can listen to The Sporkful on the SiriusXM app? Yes, the SiriusXM app, it has all your favorite podcasts, plus over 200 ad-free music channels curated by genre and era, plus live sports coverage. Does your podcasting app have that? And there's interviews with A-list stars and so much more. It's everything you want in a podcast

• 42:00Dan Pashman?

  app and music app all rolled into one. And right now, Sporkful listeners can get three months free of the SiriusXM app by going to siriusxm.com/sporkful. This episode was produced by me, along with managing producer-

• 42:14Speaker 04

  Emma Morgenstern-

• 42:15Dan Pashman?

  and senior producer- Andres O'Hara- It was edited by-

• 42:18Speaker 04

  Camille Stanley-

• 42:19Dan Pashman?

  Our engineer is-

• 42:20Speaker 05

  Jared O'Connell-

• 42:21Dan Pashman?

  And our intern is- Morgan Johnson- Music help from Black Label Music. The Sporkful is a production of SiriusXM Podcasts. Our executive producer is Camille Stanley. Until next time, I'm Dan Pashman.

• 42:31Speaker 06

  I'm Sarah from Newcastle, UK, and I'm reminding you to eat better, eat more, and eat more better.

• 42:52Dan Pashman?

  This segment is brought to you by the National Pork Board. Taste what pork can do. All right, Jimmy, what are we making?

• 42:58Speaker 05

  We are making tangy grilled baby back ribs.

• 43:00Dan Pashman?

  I'm with my friend, Chef Jimmy Chinist. He owns two restaurants I love in Green Lawn, New York. Swallow Kitchen and Cocktails and Lucello Pizza and Italian Fair. Today, I came over to his house to cook up some ribs. A lot of people think of ribs, they think of a smoker. What's the key to making good ribs on the grill?

• 43:16Speaker 05

  You want to get them to about 180 degrees, but you want to do that over a slow period of time. So we're going to cook them about low to medium heat on the grill and keep watching them flipping and moving them around. Then we'll start basting them for the last 15 minutes.

• 43:28Dan Pashman?

  And you think that's going to get them nice and sticky and...

• 43:30Speaker 05

  Nice and sticky and delicious. Yeah, they're going to be really, really good.

• 43:32Dan Pashman?

  Oh, man, I can't wait.

• 43:33Speaker 05

  I can't wait either. All right, we're about to get them on the grill for a few hours, but first we're just going to salt and pepper them to get our first layer of flavor on them.

• 43:41Dan Pashman?

  Look at that chefy salt sprinkle. This is like some Salt Bay level right here.

• 43:45Speaker 05

  Are you want me to do it?

• 43:49Dan Pashman?

  These are nice, big cracked peppercorns right here.

• 43:52Speaker 05

  Just simple, salt and fresh cracked pepper. I'm going to get them right on the grill.

• 44:00Dan Pashman?

  Oh, that's so pretty. Let's listen for a minute just to the sizzle.

• 44:06Dan Pashman?

  Oh, that's nice. While the ribs do their thing on the grill, Jimmy and I hang out in the kitchen, exchanging poignant memories. Ribs are probably the first pork that I fell in love with. I remember eating baby back ribs when we would visit my grandmother in Florida. It was a restaurant we'd always go to. What makes this cut so good?

• 44:23Speaker 05

  Anytime meat's near the bone like that, you're going to get tons of flavor. These are closer to the spine, too. These are baby back ribs, so they're smaller. So they're going to be tender. There's so much flavor packed in between those bones. That was my first introduction to pork as well, ribs. Love them.

• 44:37Dan Pashman?

  I want you to go back in time. I want to talk to little Jimmy. Tell me about that first love, that first taste of ribs. Tell me.

• 44:45Speaker 05

  They were sticky. My parents were begging me to try it and I was saying, "No, no, no, I'm not eating that." They gave me a rib. Love it first bite, baby. That pork was so luscious. It was so, it was tender and I was hooked ever since.

• 44:58Dan Pashman?

  Every so often, Jimmy heads back to the grill to check on our beloved creation. So you're flipping the ribs. How often are you going to flip them?

• 45:05Speaker 05

  Yeah, we're going to flip them every 10 minutes until they reach about 170 to 180 degrees internally.

• 45:10Dan Pashman?

  I cannot wait.

• 45:13Dan Pashman?

  While the ribs tenderize, Jimmy mixes up a sauce to brush on them when they're almost done. We got the recipe from the Pork Board website.

• 45:19Speaker 05

  Okay, so we have some low-fat French dressing. It's about a cup. And we have our onion soup mix. Add about two tablespoons of that. About two tablespoons of honey, too. And next, we're gonna add some low-sodium soy sauce.

• 45:34Dan Pashman?

  So this is gonna be sweet, it's gonna be salty.

• 45:36Speaker 05

  A little umami from that soy. And it'll caramelize nice, too, from the sugars in the soy. So we're gonna edit just the last 15 minutes of grilling. We'll lather that on the ribs. Let's go out and sauce them up.

• 45:47Dan Pashman?

  At this point, the ribs have been on the grill for nearly two hours. Oh, man, we just came out. These ribs have undergone a transformation since the last time I saw them. They are sizzling. They are juicy. They are just perfectly browned. How much time till these ribs are done, Jimmy?

• 46:04Speaker 05

  I'm gonna say another 15 minutes.

• 46:05Dan Pashman?

  So we're putting the sauce on?

• 46:07Speaker 05

  We don't wanna go too heavy at first. We're gonna just keep building layers. So one little brush per.

• 46:11Dan Pashman?

  You don't put all the sauce on right away?

• 46:12Speaker 05

  You know, you wanna build those levels of flavor. So, once this kind of bakes into it and dries out, it'll concentrate the flavor. And then we'll just keep adding on top of that. Oh, look how good those look, huh?

• 46:26Dan Pashman?

  All right, we're rocking here. Once the ribs are done, Jimmy brings them back into the kitchen to cut them up.

• 46:32Speaker 05

  Wow, they're hot.

• 46:34Speaker 05

  You wanna taste?

• 46:35Dan Pashman?

  Oh, yes. Mmm.

• 46:39Dan Pashman?

  Oh, man. It's so good. So soft and tender. A little bit sticky-sweet, just like you said. The sauce caramelize so nicely, but also just a little bit tangy.

• 46:48Speaker 05

  Perfect.

• 46:49Dan Pashman?

  Mmm. Oh, those ribs were so good. I mean, is there anything pork can't do? Of course bacon and pepperoni and sausage are great. But what about pork chops, pork shoulder, or a good old-fashioned baked ham? The same rich, savory goodness you love from bacon is actually available for a million more meal occasions in a million more ways. You want a flavorful upgrade for Taco Tuesday? Pulled pork carnitas. And as you just heard, that cookout gets a lot juicier with tangy grilled ribs. What about guanciale? You need guanciale to make carbonara. Pork can give you sweet, salty, acidic, umami. It literally does it all. Pork is here. Grill it, bake it, braise it, roast it, or sear it. But whatever you do, just make sure you taste it. Head to tastewhatporkcando.com

• 47:33Dan Pashman?

  to discover all the incredible flavors in every bite of pork.

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