#325 - 5 Performance Drugs Big Pharma Doesn't Want You Using | Chris Bell

Watch every episode ad-free & uncensored on Patreon: https://patreon.com/dannyjones Chris Bell is a writer, director, and filmmaker known for the documentaries "Bigger, Stronger, Faster", "Prescription Thugs", "Trophy Kids", "Prescription Thugs" & "A Leaf of Faith". SPONSORS https://shopify.com/dannyjones - Start your $1 per month trial TODAY! https://whiterabbitenergy.com/?ref=DJP - Use code DJP for 20% off EPISODE LINKS https://www.instagram.com/bigstrongfast FOLLOW DANNY JONES https://www.instagram.com/dannyjones https://twitter.com/jonesdanny OUTLINE 00:00 - How Chris discovered John Cena 09:11 - The magic of WWE 21:16 - The steroids crisis 28:24 - The top buyer of testosterone in US 32:04 - Did Bruce Jenner use steroids? 40:04 - Stem cell & peptides 47:27 - How Joe Rogan helped keep kratom legal 53:19 - Is ibogaine a miracle drug? 01:06:19 - Metallica in 2025 01:14:41 - Most dangerous concerts in history 01:19:59 - The one source of all addictions 01:30:08 - Are drugs good or bad? 01:43:12 - The Ozempic epidemic 01:48:34 - Why the MAHA movement is failing 01:54:14 - The carnivore diet 02:09:18 - The liver king 02:15:45 - The enhanced games 02:26:58 - Testosterone in women 02:35:22 - Bryan Johnson 02:46:54 - Trophy kids Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

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• 0:37Speaker 01

  Were you a ringsider?

• 0:38Danny Jones?

  I wasn't ringsider.

• 0:39Speaker 01

  It's amazing.

• 0:40Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I have a good buddy of mine, my friend Mark, who is a huge wrestling fan. He actually used to be a wrestler when he was younger and was trying out for the WWE. And he brought me to WrestleMania in New Orleans a few years ago. And then whenever he gets dope ringside tickets to anything in Tampa, sometimes he'll invite me and that's where I got that chair.

• 1:01Speaker 01

  He was down here in Tampa?

• 1:02Danny Jones?

  Yeah, he's in, actually, St. Pete.

• 1:04Speaker 01

  What was he, did he have a gimmick or anything?

• 1:08Danny Jones?

  Oh my God, what the? Yeah, he did. He had a, he had his, like, his whole name and he had like a whole gimmick. I forget the name of his wrestler now. He was from, he's actually, he was from Ohio, I think. So he was based up there and then he came down here. And then he actually started a company called Hostamania, which was a web hosting company. And they got Hulk to be the face of it. And then they asked me to make like a, like a marketing campaign for Hostamania. So me and my buddy were trying to come up with an idea for this commercial to sell this web hosting company that was Hulk Hogan themed.

• 1:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:48Danny Jones?

  So we came up with the idea to put, this was right when Miley Cyrus came out with her Wrecking Ball video. She's like, I came in like a rip.

• 1:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, she's riding that thing.

• 1:57Danny Jones?

  So we're like, we're gonna have Hulk coming in like a wrecking ball and smashing Jean-Claude Van Damme. Because he was the face of, I think, Go Daddy at the time.

• 2:06Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:07Danny Jones?

  So, and Hulk's like, yeah, brother, that's, that's cool, but... I think I gotta do it in my birthday suit. I'm like, really? I'm like, okay. So he ca- so he ended up doing it in just his, in his little, uh, Speedo right there. And we put him on a wrecking ball. We built a wrecking ball, went into a production studio and we put it on top of a crane. And we had him like swing across the stage on a wrecking ball and smash this dude and it went on, uh, I think like TMZ picked it up and it got like millions of views overnight. It was wild.

• 2:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, we have a long history with wrestling. My brothers and I, so I don't know if you know, but, uh, you know, my older brother Mad Dog in Bigger, Stronger, Faster, he was a wrestler. And, um, I don't know if you talked about it with Mark, but he was a wrestler also. Uh, it was really interesting.

• 2:47Danny Jones?

  Mark was a wrestler?

• 2:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:49Danny Jones?

  No, he didn't mention that.

• 2:50Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, and his nemesis was John Cena. So what happened was, um, Mark wanted to be, Mark moved out to California. He sort of followed me. I went to USC film school. I was trying to make it as a, you know, filmmaker. And, um, but we always loved wrestling. So Mark wanted to get into wrestling and I said, hey, you know, we know all these people from Gold's Gym and stuff. And I said, I know this guy. He was actually, uh, Latimer in the program, the movie, The Program. It was the big jack guy that was like putting his head through the, through the car.

• 3:19Danny Jones?

  Remember?

• 3:19Speaker 01

  He's through the girl around.

• 3:21Danny Jones?

  I've seen the program, but it's not ringing a bell.

• 3:23Speaker 01

  It was the big giant jack guy putting 315 up over his head.

• 3:26Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 3:26Speaker 01

  And that shit was all legit. He really was putting that weight over his head. So his name's Andrew Bernarski and he invited us to go down to this wrestling school and check it out. So we go down, we check it out. It's awesome. You know, Mark's like, hey, I want to sign up. I want to do this. So Mark starts wrestling and then a couple of months later, we were working at this company where we moved fitness equipment and it's just the oddest coincidence. We had a friend that worked there, a girl that worked in the office. Her name was Casey and she said, hey, you know, you guys got to meet my friend, John. He's like really buff and he's awesome. He's just like you guys. You'd get along great. We're like, whatever. Cause we always hear, oh, this guy's jacked like you. And then the guy comes in, he's not jacked at all or something. You know, that's what you think we are usually, right?

• 4:08Speaker 01

  But this guy comes in and his arms are just gigantic. He's like, looks like a cartoon character. And it's John Cena before he was John Cena. He's 22 years old. And Mark and I were like, Like what the hell is this guy all about? You know, we started talking to him. We become really good friends with him and we're like, hey, well, Mark's in this wrestling school. And you would be awesome at it. Like you're just your personality, like the way you look like. You'd be awesome at wrestling. And he's like, yeah, I'd love to try it, but I just. I don't really know how to get into it. I'm like, no, that's what I'm telling you. We, we know how to get you into it. And so, uh, we brought John into his first ever wrestling class. He basically, my older brother Mad Dog was like one of his first trainers along with this other guy, Tom Howard.

• 4:54Speaker 01

  Mark was like his nemesis and I would write all the storylines. You know, for the, for the wrestlers for this company called UPW. Yeah. So there's, there's, I think probably you can probably find matches online and Mark Wrestling Cena. And stuff like that. It was just kind of fun. Like we. Pointed him in the right direction and then he just took the ball and ran with it because he was. Within four months, he was signed to the WWE. You know, like they came in, they saw him. They're like, we want that guy. I mean, like we, you know, you could just tell. He's like one of those people. There's certain people in your life where you meet and you could just tell. Yeah. And then a couple of years later, John actually brought me into WWE. I didn't last very long. I was a writer. And, um, at the time they were going through writers like crazy and I was.

• 5:35Speaker 01

  I was just one of them. So, uh, I got to see how it all works backstage and got to hang out with. Everybody, but the cool thing was that, um, I got fired. I didn't get fired. It's just like. They give you like a six month contract and then it ends and like, hey. You know what? Didn't really work out, whatever. The reason it really didn't work out was more just, uh, the fact that they had. Kind of head writers. And they just listened to the head writers and they wouldn't listen to you at all. If you weren't a head writer. So it's like, you, you just didn't stand a chance, you know? So that's why I look at, I, I didn't take it, you know, hard, harsh or anything that I got fired. Or whatever my contract ended. But what was really cool is that I went off and I made bigger, stronger, faster.

• 6:19Speaker 01

  And after I made bigger, stronger, faster, I got invited to WrestleMania. I got invited to be backstage at WrestleMania, like in Houston. I think the Undertaker wrestled Shawn Michaels on that. Hard. It's just cool. It's like after like afterwards, everybody was like, hey, man, you you made it, you know, like. And then um, the the real kicker was that I was in the bar the night of uh, before WrestleMania. And the guy who was the executive producer, Kevin Dunn, he came up to me and said, hey, I guess they fired the wrong guy, huh? And that was just like really cool to hear. And then like also Vince McMahon had called me on the phone. Like after I made the movie, uh Vince McMahon called me, The Rock called me.

• 6:56Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 6:57Speaker 01

  Yeah. So it was really cool because I was like, these are guys that I idolize, I look up to. Um, so Vince called me and said, you know what? I I actually, I honestly thought that he was calling me to tell me he was gonna file a lawsuit because we used a bunch of footage in the movie. But instead, what he told me is you said everything I've always wanted to say about steroids. And you said it so wonderfully and and such a a unique and fun way. And I just wanted to tell you, you just did a, you made a great movie. And I thought that was, you know, great. And then, you know, The Rock also called me and said, "Hey, brother, I know you told me you were gonna make this movie, but um, I know I had no idea it was gonna turn out like this." And, you know, you did a great job. And then also, uh, Cena,

• 7:40Speaker 01

  he had told me, because we were buddies, he told me like, "Hey, man, if you ever make a movie, I'll be there the first night it comes out." And he was there the first night it came out in Los. Yeah, in Los Angeles. He flew to Los Angeles on purpose just to come see the movie, which was cool.

• 7:54Danny Jones?

  That's fucking incredible, bro. That was a, it was a really good movie, too.

• 7:58Speaker 01

  Oh, thank you.

• 7:59Danny Jones?

  I mean, just like everything about it, it's like my favorite style of documentary. It almost reminded me of like a uh, one of the early like Vice style documentaries. Because it's kind of like you're walking around, kind of like trolling people a little bit, like the way it was edited, like.

• 8:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:12Danny Jones?

  There was some fucking hilarious moments. I think you were making fun of your brother. You were saying something like, uh, you know, he started out wrestling in front of in front of 200,000 people. Now, tonight, he's wrestling in front of 50 people.

• 8:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:25Danny Jones?

  Behind a fucking.

• 8:26Speaker 01

  And he was wrestling a midget.

• 8:28Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 8:28Speaker 01

  Yeah. He was throwing the midget into the crowd. I don't, are we allowed to say that anymore?

• 8:32Danny Jones?

  Yeah, we're allowed to say it.

• 8:34Speaker 01

  So he, it was, uh, you know, a midget wrestler and he picked him up and threw him, you know, in in the crowd and.

• 8:39Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 8:40Speaker 01

  And you get paid like 50 bucks and that's the truth of wrestling is like uh there are very few John Cena's even my brother Mark who looks fantastic he's jacked and shredded and he was in pretty good shape back then as well.

• 8:52Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 8:52Speaker 01

  Um even when he was.

• 8:54Danny Jones?

  Thicker. He was like, he was like puffy.

• 8:56Speaker 01

  And even when he was uh before he got on the juice when he was natural, he looked really good too.

• 9:01Danny Jones?

  Uh huh.

• 9:01Speaker 01

  And um the thing is that at the time, a guy that was like barely six feet tall, you know, 210 pounds wasn't what they were looking for. They were looking for, they wanted to see John Cena. They wanted to see like, you know, somebody who's like super jacked and um Mark just didn't have that that look, I guess. And he was really good at wrestling, really good at cutting the promos and doing all that stuff. But um he um he gave it up for powerlifting, which I, as soon as he gave it up for powerlifting, I'm like, what are you doing, man? Power, there's no money in powerlifting. You'll never make it in powerlifting. And he's made, you know, probably more money in in powerlifting than he would have ever made if he'd gone into wrestling, you know?

• 9:38Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 9:39Speaker 01

  Cause he turned it into a business.

• 9:41Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it's really crazy, the lifestyle that some of these pro wrestlers had in the eighties and like the early nineties, you know, it was such a different world. And wrestling was like on a completely different level, like WWE, WWF than it is now, you know, like and like just from the the stories I've heard from some of these guys, because I've spent a lot of time around Hulk, um not like a lot of time around Hulk and Jimmy Hart and like this, there's this another dude, Bushwhacker Luke, who lives down the street.

• 10:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know the Bushwhackers.

• 10:09Danny Jones?

  He had a gym right down the street in Clearwater. I used to go to that gym every single day.

• 10:12Speaker 01

  Uncles used to call us the Bushwhackers. So we would come to uh, you know, we'd come to Thanksgiving and like, you know, my uncle would be like, ah, the Bushwhackers are here. And we're like, the Bushwhackers are the, we're like the worst. Yeah, why are we the Bushwhackers?

• 10:23Danny Jones?

  Whoa, my day.

• 10:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:25Danny Jones?

  Yeah, those guys are hilarious. And I've spent, I've spent, you know, I kind of like spent a lot of time working with those guys and like spent, you know, filming like commercials and little ads and stuff with them and like around all Hulk's little companies that he was doing over the last, you know, probably like 15 recently, probably like, probably 15 years, 10 years ago, maybe six years ago. And he also had like a little restaurant bar down the street. But like, I was never a fan of it. I just like heard the stories and spent a lot of time around these guys and all this stuff until my friend Marcos Honeybou brought me to WrestleMania in uh New Orleans. And that experience made me a wrestling fan. Like it was like the opposite for me.

• 11:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:04Danny Jones?

  You know what I mean?

• 11:04Speaker 01

  Who was the main event at that one?

• 11:06Danny Jones?

  Oh, God. It was um.

• 11:10Danny Jones?

  I want to say it was John Cena and somebody else. It was definitely John Cena and somebody else. But I remember like, I remember walking down the steps of the stadium to like the floor where we were sitting. And because I went to the bathroom and he was coming down and then all of a sudden, all the lights cut out in the whole arena. I'm like, what the happened? And then all of a sudden it was like gong.

• 11:29Speaker 01

  Oh, The Undertaker.

• 11:30Danny Jones?

  I was like, whoa, dude, that was insane, dude. It was just like fucking rattles every fiber of your being and everyone in there, like all the energies and it's, it's like, it's palpable, the energy in there and, and like, it's such an incredible show with the pyro and everything.

• 11:46Speaker 01

  They say that wrestling's fake, you know, and um, I don't know, like I've seen like Dana White talk about it in interviews. I love Dana White. I think he's incredible. And Mark and I have had the chance to like, sit down with him and he's, he's just a great guy, but um, he, he's not for the theatrics of like the guys coming out and stuff. And I always said like, man, one of these days, the, they sort of should go that way because it's so, it's so interesting. It makes it so much more fun when these guys have these big entrances and you know, it's, it just, it feels gigantic. And they used to do it uh, back in Pride. So I always hope like, maybe one day they'll, they'll start sneaking that stuff in there now that they're sort of all one company, you know, like WWE.

• 12:26Speaker 01

  Cause WWE even right now, um, I don't think that necessarily the product is better than it's been, but I, but the way it looks is incredible right now. Like the things that they're doing, you know, visually are really cool.

• 12:38Danny Jones?

  It's unbelievable. I was just watching a clip on Instagram yesterday of uh, The Undertaker coming out on a fucking Harley with ape hangers, with Limp Bizkit playing in the middle of the stage and like pyro going off everywhere. Like that's just like, that's such a high level of production and entertainment and money they put into that.

• 13:00Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then the um, the entrances, like the other day on wrestling, they did a promo where it was like Cody Rhodes and Seth Rollins and um, I forget, it was uh, whoever the, all the top guys are right now was Cena was involved, right? And everybody got their own entrance. And so like, this promo is like 20 minutes because it's like, oh. So now Cody Rhodes has to come out like his music comes on. He does the whole pyro, gets up on the ropes and then I think it was Randy Orton. He comes out. He does his whole thing. So the whole promo took forever just because everybody got their own,

• 13:31Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 13:32Speaker 01

  you know, full entrance, but it's kind of, I mean, I think that's what the fans come to see.

• 13:36Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it is. And they all, they all know, they all know it's not real. They're there for the entertain, it's theater.

• 13:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's fun.

• 13:43Danny Jones?

  You know what I mean? Yeah, it's super fun. Those people are, are there for the thrill of it, the entertainment, the camaraderie of everyone getting together, picking their team, picking their wrestler. It's, uh, I like going to, going to that event in New Orleans was

• 13:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, we had a completely different experience. So we grew up in Poughkeepsie, New York, and Poughkeepsie, New York was the sort of satellite, like it was the home base of the WWE for television. So every month they would tape four hours of wrestling in the Mid Hudson Civic Center in Poughkeepsie. And the, the, those four hours would be split up for the next four weeks, every Saturday morning, the Saturday morning, you know, wrestling used to be on Saturday morning at like 10 o'clock in the morning.

• 14:26Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 14:26Speaker 01

  And, you know, every show, like we, we saw it get taped, like we were there. So like when Hillbilly Jim came out of the crowd to save the Hulkster, like we were little kids and we were there. You know, and Mark's like four years younger than me, so he's like a little rascal. And, um, my older brother and I are like, we're like a year and a half apart. And it was just so much fun for us to sort of grow up, kind of as a part of the WWE even, you know?

• 14:52Danny Jones?

  Hmm. Yeah. If you've ever shopped online, chances are you've been to a website powered by Shopify. It's easy to spot by the purple shop pay button. That's what we use for our merch store. That purple button has all your payments and shipping info, so you don't have to track down your card or hope your browser remembered your payment info. There's a reason why so many businesses use Shopify. That's because they make it incredibly easy to run and start your own business. It's the business behind the business that really matters. And that's where Shopify excels with convenient tools and workflows. Shop Pay has the best converting checkout on the planet, meaning fewer abandoned carts and way more sales. It's a game changer. You can spread your brand's word. With the built in marketing and email tools. Don't want to build your own page?

• 15:33Danny Jones?

  Shopify has hundreds of beautiful, ready to go templates to express your brand and forget the code. Like daylight computer's website, which is gorgeous. So if you've got a product, a dream and a drive to make it happen, Shopify is the platform that helps you do it with ease. Because businesses that sell, sell more with Shopify. So if you want less abandoned carts, it's time to head on over to Shopify. Sign up for your $1 per month trial period at Shopify.com slash Danny Jones, all lowercase. Again, that's Shopify.com slash D A N N Y J O N E S to upgrade your selling today. Shopify.com slash Danny Jones. It's linked below. Now back to the show. Totally. And you know, the amount of stuff those guys were taking in the eighties.

• 16:18Danny Jones?

  It was probably like on a whole nother level. Yeah, yeah. You know, not, not just the performance enhancing drugs, but like the drugs you gotta take to can get rid of that dislocated hip or your knee or all the crazy injuries those guys would have.

• 16:30Speaker 01

  Speaking of that, I worked at WWE as a writer in like 2003, 2004. And I'm not going to mention any names, but I was backstage several times watching people chew up handfuls of Vicodin. It was like, it was no big deal. It was just like.

• 16:47Danny Jones?

  What were the other ones? And what was the one in Wolf of Wall Street that he was eating?

• 16:50Speaker 01

  It's like Vicodins, Percocets.

• 16:51Danny Jones?

  No, what were they called? Quaaludes?

• 16:54Speaker 01

  They didn't have Quaaludes then. I think Quaaludes have been illegal for a certain amount of time. Since like the eighties or something. But yeah, everybody always talks about, man, do you ever, you, everybody says you missed out if you haven't tried lewds.

• 17:06Danny Jones?

  Right. Yeah, I heard a lot of stories.

• 17:08Speaker 01

  No idea what they, what that would feel like. But yeah, I mean, I, I just used to see it all the time, you know, our older brother Mad Dog who passed away unfortunately. He would be a, he was a WWE like jobber where he'd come in, he was an enhancement talent. He'd come in and get beat up on TV and whatever. And he used to tell me like, well, the main reason they hire me all the time is like, A, I usually make people look really good and B, I always have pills. And I'm like, what's that mean? He's like, I just bring the pills, you know, backstage. And back then it was a free for all. They don't, they don't. Play any of those games now, you know, that that's all sort of like gone, but it used to be crazy. It used to just be a free for all and not like it was encouraged, but it just wasn't.

• 17:52Speaker 01

  It wasn't stopped and it was some of the top guys, you know, that were involved in it.

• 17:57Danny Jones?

  Hmm. Yeah, it's kind of crazy. Even today, there's such a stigma around it, you know? Like, look at Logan Paul, since he joined the WWE.

• 18:04Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 18:04Danny Jones?

  The transformation with that guy is unbelievable.

• 18:07Speaker 01

  You know, Logan Paul, I think a lot of people will come down on him. I I don't care about his crypto scams or anything like that. He is the best wrestler in the history of wrestling.

• 18:18Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 18:19Speaker 01

  He's the.

• 18:20Danny Jones?

  Oh, oh, like real wrestling?

• 18:21Speaker 01

  The the best, like, you go back and watch his first match against like Rey Mysterio, I think it was. It's incredible. Like, it's incredible. Like, I have no, I've I've worked with a lot of wrestlers because we used to run a wrestling school. And I've seen people come and go and seen people come in and see people do some amazing things. What Logan Paul can do in the ring athletically is it's insane. It's like, no, there's nobody like him. So people can talk shit about him all they want, but he's gonna end up being the face of the WWE in the future, I think.

• 18:51Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 18:52Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 18:52Danny Jones?

  I haven't watched any of his matches. I saw some like the flying flips and stuff that he's doing like I saw a video of him practicing, like jumping off something and like practicing doing these flips onto a mat.

• 19:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think you'll see Logan Paul, you know, basically shoot through the roof as far as WWE goes.

• 19:07Danny Jones?

  Interesting.

• 19:08Speaker 01

  As long as he keeps everything else clean. I know he's got a lot of other scandals and things going on all the time.

• 19:12Danny Jones?

  Yeah, there's, yeah, he seems like he can't escape all the scandals, man.

• 19:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:16Danny Jones?

  The crypto stuff and all the, all the other things that he's doing.

• 19:19Speaker 01

  I think when you get that big, it's probably hard to.

• 19:22Danny Jones?

  It's hard to say no to people.

• 19:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's probably got too many bad people around him, you know?

• 19:26Danny Jones?

  Yeah, that's the problem. You get too many, uh, leeches, leeches and too many, uh, you know, motivated people, people that are motivated just to make money and they don't give a about the longevity of your career, your legacy. But I mean, that's like, that's kind of like one of like the first things you gotta figure out if you had that level of fame, right?

• 19:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:43Danny Jones?

  Cause that's the one thing that could kneecap your career.

• 19:46Speaker 01

  There's not a whole lot of people that figure it out. You know, most of the people end up like, most stories end tragically, you know, it's.

• 19:52Danny Jones?

  Yeah, well, that's the thing, like, you know, people get greedy. It's like you achieve, you can get somewhere, you know, achieve a goal or get to like a certain level where you're like, you're comfortable, you're happy, you don't have to worry about how much money you have to pay to go off. If you're going out to dinner with a bunch of people, you could pay the bill and not have to worry about how much it costs. And then like, you know, people think about, oh, now, now I gotta start 16 businesses so I can monetize this from every possible angle, you know, and me, cause eventually it's not gonna be here anymore. So I gotta make sure I, you know, create a good retirement and all this stuff. And then that's when you start letting in people who are just in it for themselves or just in it for the short term gain, which it never ends up well.

• 20:33Speaker 01

  Yeah. And it's crazy now because you can get famous off of almost anything, you know, if you look at, um, back when Mark and I were growing up, uh, we, we didn't have social media. We, I never filmed, I must've worked out 10,000 times without ever filming one thing, you know? And so we used to go into the gym, put heavy weights on, work really hard, outwork everybody around us. And it wasn't for the gram, it was like for us, you know, it was like for me, like I wanna do this.

• 21:00Danny Jones?

  You guys weren't in there with a tripod, like filming yourselves?

• 21:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, even now, it's kind of surprising because Mark does do a lot of social media stuff. But for the most part, he's not filming all the time, you know, he's, uh, he's got a guy that will come and film with him now. Um, but even during the times when he was getting all his stuff like online, it wasn't like he was constantly filming, you know, or, you know, and he also, he, he always had his own gym, so it was never in the way of anybody or anything. Um, but I just think now that people go to the gym literally just for the workout, you know, for the, for the, to get the workout on tape so that they can do, you know, a social media post. And, um, that's not gonna help you get jacked and tanned, you know, you gotta, you gotta put in the work to do that, you know?

• 21:45Speaker 01

  And that's the thing is like, steroids are at an all time high, in my opinion, you go on the internet and just everybody's juiced up, you know, from 20 years old on up, you know, 18 years old on up. And it's, uh, it's just sad to see that, that it's gone that way and that people aren't really putting in that kind of work anymore.

• 22:04Danny Jones?

  Yeah, well, not only that, but it's sad to see when kids that young are doing it and they're trying to, they're trying to do it the cheap way and they're trying to do it, you know, because when you're when you're 20 years old, no one's going to prescribe you steroids. So they're buying it behind the gym from some guy who works out at the gym, right? They're buying it. Probably for somebody who just cooked it up in a bathtub or something. They don't know what it is. They've never gotten their blood work done. They don't know anything about their metabol- or their, you know, any of their levels, their hormone levels, or their lipid levels, or any of this stuff. They're just haphazardly doing this and then, you know, eventually it's like, for some reason, they might have to stop or they run out or they move and then your body's doing all kinds of crazy shit trying to like rebalance itself and, you know, who knows what could happen.

• 22:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, they have no idea what's going on and, you know, that's the thing is, um, I encourage everybody who's over the age of 18, men or women, you know? Uh, I think everybody should go get their blood work done. I think that there's a lot of people out there that are struggling with low testosterone. Uh, we drink out of a lot of like plastic bottles, you know, like I'm guilty of it too. It's like, uh, I think we all are. There's so many things that will lower our testosterone and both men and women are walking around with low testosterone with all these symptoms of depression. One of the best ways to beat depression is have a good testosterone level, you know? So I always argue that, like, I always say the world needs a shot of testosterone.

• 23:26Speaker 01

  You know, it seems like we've gotten a little weak and wimpy and a lot of the, the things we do and I think that relates back to, um, our testosterone levels have dropped 50% in the last 50 years. So I think, um, people, they don't need it. If, if they go and get checked and they don't need it, that's great. But I also say like, if you're, even if your levels are like 600, 700, why not have it be like a thousand, which is optimal? You know, why not have it be in that 900 to a thousand, which is optimal. And so there's, you know, there's a, a debate to where like, I, I just think it can help so many people. I've seen it personally, help hundreds of thousands of people like in, you know, just through what I do, you know, and when,

• 24:10Speaker 01

  you know, when I made my film, I had no idea the impact it would have. On the world, I think you don't know, you know, what impact you'll ever have on the world. Uh, but I've talked to so many people that are, um, you know, pretty like high up in what they do. For example, like, uh, I work now, I work with a compounding pharmacy now in Houston called Empower Pharmacy. My boss saw bigger, stronger, faster and said like, I need to, like, I need to work with you. Like, we need to do stuff together because like, you, like, your film changed my life. The reason I have this compounding pharmacy is because I watched your movie. And, um, and when I watched your movie, I was like, that's what I need. And this guy's message is right.

• 24:53Speaker 01

  Like steroids aren't the bad guy. The bad guy is like using these things, you know, without any sort of, uh, indication that you need them, you know?

• 25:02Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 25:02Speaker 01

  And I think that's like, sort of my message is like, don't make testosterone the bad guy. Use it if you need it. If you don't use it, if you don't need it, then don't use it.

• 25:11Danny Jones?

  That's the problem with any drug. The biggest thing is education. You know, you gotta have the education around it. People need to be able to understand it. And you can't just blackball it. So people are forced to buy it on the black or gray market.

• 25:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a huge problem when, when people are buying it behind the gym.

• 25:25Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 25:25Speaker 01

  I have a guy that came to me and said, uh, he, he said to me, he's like, if you're not home brewing, you're doing it wrong. And I'm like, what do you mean? I, I saw, I was like, what do you mean home brewing? And this guy, like, no offense, but he looked like he came straight out of like a trailer park. And I said, what do you mean like home brewing? He's like, oh, I, I just make my own.

• 25:46Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 25:46Speaker 01

  I'm like, you make your own. And he starts telling me like how he makes his own testosterone, like, you know, in his sink. And it's like, that's not the way to do it, dude.

• 25:54Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 25:55Speaker 01

  You know, but I guess it is a lot cheaper. And then I told my brother about it. My brother's like, oh, that's, that's great. I used to get stuff like that all the time. When I was powerlifting, I had a bunch of guys that would make their own. And I'm like, yeah, I don't, I don't know about that, you know?

• 26:08Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I got some friends who buy their shit from guys at the gym and they, you know, they never got their blood work done and they, they're, they seem to be doing fine. I mean, they're huge.

• 26:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, steroids work, you know, that thing is they, they work, but um, at some point, you're gonna hit a, you're gonna sort of hit a limit, you know, and then like, how big do you want to get, you know, I, I think I used to think it was really cool, even the name of the movie is Bigger, Stronger, Faster. I used to think it was like really cool to be really big. Now I'm like, how do I get smaller? How do I get leaner? I want to get skinnier.

• 26:38Danny Jones?

  Right, right. Be functional, right? Be able to do shit. Like, I, I'm like, I've, I've worked out my whole life. I've been going to the gym, at least since I've been in high school, I've been, I've gone to the gym. Like, I've never been one to want to get really bulky or jacked, but like, I grew up skateboarding and surfing and doing stuff like that. So I always wanted to be like, be able to swim fast and be agile. I never wanted to be so fricking jacked that I couldn't move, you know?

• 27:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:04Danny Jones?

  So, um.

• 27:07Speaker 01

  I think genetics has a huge hand to play in that as well, you know?

• 27:11Danny Jones?

  Yeah, definitely. Um, but like, I think it's, uh, you know, it's changed, like, the culture has changed. Like, I think the, you guys talked about this in the Bigger, Stronger, Faster documentary, but you, you were talking to somebody, I think it was like a lawyer or a doctor or something like that, and he was showing you the G.I. Joes. Like, here's the original G.I. Joe. Then look at the next one, he's got serratus muscles, he's got a six pack, and here's the new G.I. Joe. And it just talks about, you know, how like Arnold was big in the nineties or whatever, and that, and then there were Stallone, and then that kind of like, the evolution of culture and movies in Hollywood kind of like played a role in, in pushing that mainstream. And, you know, now, it's kind of like, we're on the backside of that now, we're on more of a dip, I feel like, and it's not a super

• 27:56Danny Jones?

  popular thing to be jacked out of your gills anymore, you know what I mean?

• 28:00Speaker 01

  I think people realize it's not attractive.

• 28:02Danny Jones?

  Yeah, like the other guy, the documentary with the fricking biceps like this, he's like, you think any girls walk up to me saying, damn, that guy's hot?

• 28:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:09Danny Jones?

  No, their fricking boyfriends are facepalming them and coming up to me saying, bro, how did you do that?

• 28:14Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 28:15Danny Jones?

  You attract dudes.

• 28:17Speaker 01

  You attract guys, you know, and that's the thing. It's like even with, um, even with the movie after I made bigger, stronger, faster. That's all that would come up to me. Like, I don't think I've ever, I maybe had like one girl come up and say like, hey, good job on that movie. It's all dudes. And it's like, they come up and they're like, hey, man, and they're like, you know, you'll be out somewhere and they'll just corner you forever and want to talk to you about your, you know, your movie and you're like, ah, I don't really care that much. Like, get away, you know? But it's just, it's just funny how it is like such a guy thing, you know?

• 28:49Danny Jones?

  Hey, guys, if you're not already subscribed, please hammer the subscribe button below and hit the like button on the video. Back to the show. And also like, testosterone is such a weird thing. It's such like a weird hormone.

• 29:02Speaker 01

  Well, you know,

• 29:03Danny Jones?

  You know, like, like, it's like,

• 29:04Speaker 01

  The biggest provider of testosterone and the entire, the, the biggest customer for testosterone in the entire United States is Planned Parenthood and it's for gender transformation.

• 29:16Danny Jones?

  Is it really?

• 29:17Speaker 01

  Absolutely. Yep.

• 29:19Danny Jones?

  Like, that's the number one?

• 29:20Speaker 01

  They're the number one, like, user of testosterone.

• 29:23Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 29:24Speaker 01

  Yeah. Shows you how out of control.

• 29:26Danny Jones?

  And it goes, it goes to Planned Parenthood?

• 29:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's Planned Parenthood. I don't know why. I guess that's where, I, I guess they give it out or they, or they dispense it in some, some way. But I remember like, one of the really interesting things is, uh, Joe Biden was a guy who said, there's something simply un-American about this. And he pounded his fist on the table. But back before that, even in nineteen ninety, he's the one that was a senator that pushed so hard against the advice of the DEA and the Center for Human Health, what is it? Health and Human Services.

• 29:59Danny Jones?

  CHS, yeah.

• 30:00Speaker 01

  Yeah. He went against their recommendations and the American Medical Association. All three of those recommended that they don't make steroids a schedule three drug. They don't make them illegal. They don't put testosterone in this, you know, class where nobody can get it. And he came out and said, no, you, you know, um, we're, we're gonna go against that. And then

• 30:21Danny Jones?

  Biden wanted it to be scheduled.

• 30:22Speaker 01

  And, and Biden got it scheduled. Yeah. And he got it scheduled and that's Sort of like was his claim to fame, but then um just recently, you know, before he went out of office, his administration was pushing hard to now legalize testosterone for these gender-affirming care.

• 30:38Danny Jones?

  Oh my god. So guys playing baseball can't use it, but kids, minors who want to change their sex.

• 30:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I'm not sure like the the ages or anything like that, you know, you you hear a lot of crazy things like, oh, fifteen-year-olds are getting it. I don't know if that's true or not, but I've I've heard the stories and like, who knows what's true.

• 30:57Danny Jones?

  I'm sure it gets blown out of proportion, you know, on on in the media, like the mainstream media. People like to use that as like a uh like a rallying cry to their team, you know, like, oh, we gotta fix all the all the trans, all the trans, but you know, sometimes the truth is in the middle. You never really know where what's.

• 31:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, and to be honest, if that's making people happy, I don't care what it's being used for. I just don't want it to be illegal for me. I don't want it to be hard for me.

• 31:21Danny Jones?

  It shouldn't be fucking legal for kids, though, for people.

• 31:23Speaker 01

  No, not for, no, not for, not for kids.

• 31:25Danny Jones?

  Yeah, that's that's.

• 31:27Speaker 01

  You definitely need a uh age limit and a parental consent and probably like some sort of psychological evaluation, I think, as well, you know? I think a lot of people get into that and they don't know what they're getting into and yeah, so yeah, definitely not for kids.

• 31:39Danny Jones?

  A lot of people, a lot of smart people think that like when these people are going through this, these psychological issues of where they think they're a different gender, or they're like a man in woman's body, woman in a man's body, um people have said that they're just mentally ill gays. Or just like gay people who are, you know, going through depression or going through any kind of thing, and they're just confused, they're young. I mean, that's being being like that when you're when you're young is normal, right? You just need the proper guidance.

• 32:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think a lot of times time would be the the the key factor. You need time, you know, like you feel like that. Are you gonna feel like that in five years from now? Probably not, you know?

• 32:15Danny Jones?

  Right. Right. It's the same thing with getting, you know, your face tattooed. Like, you're not gonna let fucking five-year-old Johnny get his face tat- get a Spider-Man tattoo on his face just because he thinks Spider-Man's cool. He's gonna regret that when he's 12.

• 32:27Speaker 01

  Kids would ask for that, you know?

• 32:28Danny Jones?

  Right, exactly. Exactly.

• 32:32Danny Jones?

  But, so, also, Bruce Jenner is an interesting one because Bruce was taking steroids, right? When he was in the Olympics?

• 32:41Speaker 01

  So, I heard, I have a friend, his name's Tom File, he's amazing, he's hilarious, he's this jacked powerlifter. And, he's like 60 years old now, he's still squatting like 600 pounds, he's a, he's just one of the most maniacal people I've ever met. He used to work the front desk at Gold's Gym, and he used to train Bruce, when it was Bruce.

• 33:00Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 33:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I think that Bruce was on The Juice, that rhymes, that sounds cool. He used to train Bruce, cause nobody else would train Bruce. He has not confirmed to me whether or not he was on steroids, but basically, like, when you hang out at Gold's Gym in Venice, you're on steroids. I don't care who you are. I worked out at Gold's Gym Venice for probably about 22 years straight. And I've met everybody that's come through those doors, and most of the people that come through those doors are gonna end up taking something. No matter who they are, you know, it's just, that's, that's the environment that that place gives off. You know, really, kinda, in a weird way, when I shot bigger, stronger, faster, they let me shoot in there.

• 33:45Speaker 01

  And then, I was so excited that I made the movie and it got in the Sundance Film Festival, and like, hey, this is gonna be, you know, a bit, you know, on Netflix and all those things. And so, I got all excited, and I went in with a poster, and I was like, can we put this poster up in here? Cause I have all these posters of like, all the famous people that have been through Gold's, and I'm like, I'm finally gonna get my poster on the wall of Gold's Gym. And they were like, hell no. You said in your movie that, you know, people come to Gold's Gym and take steroids. I'm like, where did I say that in the movie? I've never, I never actually, like, I never said it, I never even equated it, I just said, you know, like, the movie was about steroids and Gold's Gym is in it. Cause I work out at Gold's Gym, but I never said anything derogatory about Gold's Gym and people going there, using steroids.

• 34:28Speaker 01

  But now I will, because people go there and use steroids. But, you know, it's, it's, no, it's just interesting that, like, they wouldn't hang my poster on the wall. So, they have the posters on the wall of all the guys that have used steroids. Worked out at Gold's Gym and their posters on the wall.

• 34:46Danny Jones?

  What's so funny?

• 34:47Speaker 01

  But my poster's not supposed to be there.

• 34:48Danny Jones?

  Yeah, that's so, that's so silly. I can't believe they would do something like that.

• 34:53Danny Jones?

  But like, as far as like Bruce, so do you, what, what do you make of, of, is there any connection between people who would, if allegedly if Bruce was using steroids or doing something to him, like, all of a sudden going trans? Is there any sort of like?

• 35:05Speaker 01

  I don't.

• 35:06Danny Jones?

  Pattern there with people?

• 35:07Speaker 01

  I don't think so. I don't know. I know I've heard people say like, oh, he shot up so much steroids that it turned to estrogen and it turned him into a woman. I just think.

• 35:15Danny Jones?

  He would have to be doing a ton, though.

• 35:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I don't think he would be taking that much testosterone, especially for like what, you know, what he was doing. But if you look at his comeback story, there's a great documentary about Bruce Jenner on Netflix. And it's amazing to see like what he did, like where he came from. He was like, uh, and so I don't think somebody can come from like, I think he was 10th, you know, maybe 10th place the year before. And then he just shot up to like first place. So I don't think you do that naturally. You know, I, I don't know. I mean, maybe you do, maybe you don't. You know, I know that like, um, certain people, like when I grew up, I was a huge Yankees fan. And Reggie Jackson, we would go see Reggie Jackson play. And he'd always be cranking home runs and he owned a Gold's Gym.

• 36:00Speaker 01

  And I'm always like, where there's smoke, there's fire. Like, we don't know that he used steroids. But you gotta think like, well, Reggie Jackson owned a Gold's Gym, you know, Ric Flair owned a bunch of Gold's Gyms and like.

• 36:11Danny Jones?

  Did he really?

• 36:11Speaker 01

  Yeah. Who are these guys that, you know, they're, they're, I just think that like where there's smoke, there's fire. There, there's no reason to think that they wouldn't, you know, wouldn't do it. You look at a lot of people, like, uh, for example, I've, I've done an interview with Lance Armstrong. He was awesome to talk to. But Lance Armstrong's not a very big guy.

• 36:32Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 36:32Speaker 01

  You know, like, he doesn't look like, and I've done an interview with Floyd Landis, who was, you know, the subsequent winner of the Tour de France after.

• 36:41Speaker 01

  After Armstrong and and he doesn't look, you know, he's a hundred and forty five pounds. So it's like not always like the person that looks like they take steroids.

• 36:49Danny Jones?

  Right. It's not. Yeah. The goal is not always just to get super jacked. Right. Like, like NBA players, right? Like, I'm sure LeBron James is on a whole bunch of shit.

• 36:57Speaker 01

  Well, he has to be. I mean, they.

• 36:58Danny Jones?

  But he's not super jacked. I mean, he's muscular.

• 37:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's muscular.

• 37:01Danny Jones?

  He's muscular, but he need the more than anything he needs in dark. He needs to be able to fucking play full court basketball for two and a half hours.

• 37:07Speaker 01

  I I would say that anybody at that level, if they're not on it, they're kind of stupid because the NBA actually has like a therapeutic use exemption where you can use testosterone up to a certain amount. Think your levels can't be.

• 37:20Danny Jones?

  Do they really?

• 37:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it's like a low key thing. I know they don't. They don't really, um.

• 37:26Danny Jones?

  I thought EPO was the big thing with basketball players.

• 37:30Speaker 01

  I don't know if they're using EPO, but why wouldn't they?

• 37:32Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 37:32Speaker 01

  You know, if they're not testing for it, you know, who cares? I mean, I I don't think um anyone's looking at the NBA's drug testing close enough to monitor. I could be wrong. Um, but I know people that have played in the NFL. You know, I know people that went to Balco. Uh, when Balco was in session and they never got tested, you know, so they they've told me, you know, oh, yeah. Like I I used to go to Balco and I'm like, well, how many times you get tested during the year? Like none. You know, like I never got tested. And so I I've just heard so many stories. I don't think. I also went to USC and when I went to USC, we had a great football team and these, a lot of these guys that are like offensive lineman, defensive lineman, they're just huge guys. And I would talk to them about steroids and they'd have no clue.

• 38:17Speaker 01

  I talked to the second stringers, third stringers, they'd know everything about steroids. So I think it's like there's these in the NFL, NBA, wherever you're gonna have like all these freaks, right, that aren't taking anything, which is surprising and shocking.

• 38:34Speaker 01

  And then you're gonna have some people that take stuff that it makes them better. It makes them good enough to be on that starting team, you know? And so, I don't know, it's just so hard to tell because I used to be one of those people where I used to think everybody was on something, but I've met so many people. That when I talk to them, I get a sense that they don't know enough about it. Like, I mean, if they're taking it, they're taking it maybe through some sort of coach. Cause they they just don't know anything about it and maybe they're playing stupid. But I don't think.

• 39:04Danny Jones?

  A lot of people don't care. I know how people do it all the time and don't know shit about it. Like, I don't know. If they fucking send it to me, I'd jam it in my ass.

• 39:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I mean, it could be, you know.

• 39:11Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 39:11Speaker 01

  But I also just think there's a. I think there is a good amount of natural people out there, but it's dwindling. You know, I think it's getting smaller and smaller as we, you know, as we move through time. But it's like, you know, my brother had a gym in Sacramento and we'd have all sorts of people come through there and train with us and the I I couldn't tell you how many guys would say they're natural. And it's like, what are you gonna do? Can confront them to their face and be like, no, you're not. Show me your blood work, you know?

• 39:37Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 39:37Speaker 01

  And it's just, uh, it's not even at a point, it's like, not even worth it.

• 39:41Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 39:41Speaker 01

  To um, to worry about. It's like, I always tell people, just worry about yourself.

• 39:45Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 39:45Speaker 01

  You know?

• 39:46Danny Jones?

  Totally. And there's um, you know, uh, for things like the NFL. I don't like, I don't know what the optimal steroids or um, human growth hormone, what the optimal like stack would be for an NFL player or an NBA NBA player. But I would imagine, at least for NFL players, dudes who are getting the shit beat out of them every single week, that they would at least need testosterone and like some sort of growth hormone, just to be able to, just to be able to heal their body every week, right?

• 40:20Speaker 01

  Maybe some peptides.

• 40:21Danny Jones?

  To turn around in seven days is is a lot to ask when you're really crushing your body like that.

• 40:26Speaker 01

  There's some peptides that can help, like BPC 157, TV 500.

• 40:30Danny Jones?

  Is that considered a steroid or is that just a peptide?

• 40:32Speaker 01

  They're peptides.

• 40:33Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 40:33Speaker 01

  Um, I have tried, honestly, like I have a really bad shoulder. Um, I tore my rotator cuff, I tore my tricep and it just never healed right. And so I've tried gallons of BPC 157 in my shoulder. I've tried. Literally hundreds of thousands of dollars of stem cells. Luckily, I make documentaries and I've gotten them comped from some different people. And so I've made it, I've had probably a hundred thousand dollars worth of stem cells in my shoulder. And with no, not one positive effect.

• 41:07Danny Jones?

  Really? I've had, I have a good friend who also paid tons of money for stem cells and he said in his back and he said he never felt any sort of effect.

• 41:14Speaker 01

  I felt zero benefit. I felt zero benefit from um, BPC one five seven, maybe the injury is too uh, intense. But I have other people that say they've injected it in their knee or something and all the pain went away.

• 41:28Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I've injected a BPC in my, in my hand before when I like fucked up a tendon in my thumb and it helped a lot.

• 41:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:34Danny Jones?

  But that's the only place.

• 41:34Speaker 01

  So I don't, I don't doubt it. It just like, it's, it's not something that worked for me. So.

• 41:40Danny Jones?

  Well, there's a different, the stem cells though, the, the interesting thing about the stem cells is there's like the, the general, like general population stem cells. And then there's the ones that you can get that are actually like, you can get from like a, your own wife's placenta.

• 41:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:53Danny Jones?

  That are like, or I guess that would, would that work for the dude though? If it was from, oh, no, no, I'm sorry. It's the cord blood from, if you have a baby, you can, you can get the, bank the cord blood, the umbilical cord. And if you use those stem cells, those match your DNA and those apparently are like a hundred percent effective. But like the general mill stem cells, like the general population of stem cells aren't necessarily.

• 42:16Speaker 01

  I use two different kinds. One time I went to Mexico um, and went to a place called Eternia Health. And like I said, they had all these other treatments that I got. It was, it was great, but they, stem cells did not work in my knee and in my shoulder. Then I went to another place in Austin where they're not allowed to use the same kind of stem cells they use in Mexico. But I was told that the ones that in Austin are actually from, like, I think, like you said, like a placenta or something. Whereas like the ones in uh, Mexico were like, they drew them from me and then they spun them up and they injected them back into me.

• 42:53Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 42:53Speaker 01

  And then the one in Austin, they just went, you know, boom, right into me. And the ones that went right into me. In Austin, those seem to work for my knee, but they didn't, they didn't do anything for my shoulder. So it's weird, right? Cause like, I feel like they helped, but I don't feel like they helped. I, they don't help enough for me to, I couldn't recommend it to you.

• 43:12Danny Jones?

  Right. There's probably a little bit of placebo effect.

• 43:14Speaker 01

  Yeah. I wouldn't tell you like, oh man, go get stem cells. It's gonna be great. Yeah. You'd probably kill me if you spent the money and went down there.

• 43:20Danny Jones?

  Right, right. Yeah. Um, there's gotta be some level of placebo effect to it. But that's interesting. It worked on your knee and not your shoulder. Maybe your shoulder is just completely wrecked.

• 43:28Speaker 01

  That could be it, you know?

• 43:29Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Um, I had a dude in here, I was telling your brother about this, but I, I had a dude in here who was a coach for, I think it was University of Florida, Gators. He was a, or not like the head coach, but he's like one of the coaches. You know, they have a whole team of coaches. And he was telling me all of the, uh, like the receivers and the running backs are jacked on Adderall.

• 43:51Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 43:52Danny Jones?

  And I was like blown away. I'm like, what?

• 43:54Speaker 03

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• 44:24Speaker 01

  Adderall is a huge drug everywhere. I mean, I think that's, you know, it's everywhere.

• 44:29Danny Jones?

  Yeah. And like, if you watch the videos, like some of the slow mo videos, even the guys in the NFL running, like, like Antonio Brown or who's the other guy? Derek Henry, you see the videos through his helmet, their freaking eyes are like saucers.

• 44:41Speaker 01

  When I said, um, in bigger, stronger, faster, we show like, okay, well, if this is cheating, why isn't this cheating? And we show all these other industries where they use beta blockers in like, for musicians. Well, you're in an audition. That's a competition, you know, like, um,

• 44:56Danny Jones?

  What is a beta blocker?

• 44:57Speaker 01

  A beta blocker calms you down. So people will use them in, in like, even in like golf, I think they're banned. Cause they calm you down so much that you're, you don't like have like jitters, you know? And so, um, people use. Beta blockers for stuff like that, but they'll use it for like to like if they have an audition for the cello, you know, they'll go in and they'll use beta blockers. So they're not all shaky.

• 45:18Danny Jones?

  Just to quell the anxiety at the moment.

• 45:20Speaker 01

  Yeah. And so it's like a performance enhancing drug, you know, we showed that the all the fighter pilots have to have Adderall with them. They have to have it with them.

• 45:28Danny Jones?

  What's it called? There, there's one specific we learned about recently called Provigil or something like that. Medafinil, Provigil, same thing.

• 45:35Speaker 01

  Medafinil is a pretty safe drug from what I know. I know Dave Asprey recommends it highly. Um, he talks about it a lot and he says it's a fairly safe compared to all the other ones. I don't know. I'm not, I'm not promoting it in any way. I'm just saying, I know that he uses it and he's a high functioning guy and.

• 45:52Danny Jones?

  It's basically a watered down Adderall.

• 45:54Speaker 01

  Is it?

• 45:54Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 45:55Speaker 01

  Yeah. Uh, I, I, I've had, I've taken Adderall. Adderall is crazy. Like I've gotten.

• 46:01Danny Jones?

  I hate Adderall.

• 46:02Speaker 01

  I can't stand it. Yeah. I, I got pretty spun up on it for a while. Like, um, I don't know. I, you know, I used to live in LA and I went through this whole period of time where I had a double hip replacement surgery. And for a while I was just searching for anything that could help me feel better. And so I would go to these doctors that would prescribe you anything and I would get anything. They'd be like, oh, how about this? Okay. Great. How about this? How about this? And so I was taking like Xanax and Adderall. And it's like, you take one pill to go up, one pill to go down. And it gave me a great education on drugs and what they can do and how they can help people. Um, but I am so far from that guy, you know? Because I was a mess when I was doing that, you know? And I think that, um,

• 46:48Speaker 01

  yeah, I think that people that mess with stuff like Adderall, I, I sort of feel bad because it'll suck you in pretty quick.

• 46:54Danny Jones?

  Yep. You gotta be careful.

• 46:56Speaker 01

  And I think people really need to be careful with that one especially.

• 46:58Danny Jones?

  I, I keep a couple. I, I got some from a friend and I keep a couple like, like with me because every once in a while I'll need one. Like the other day I needed one because I didn't sleep at all. Because we went out to, I went out to a Metallica concert and we were up all fricking night and then.

• 47:12Speaker 01

  It's my favorite band.

• 47:13Danny Jones?

  Is it really?

• 47:14Speaker 01

  Oh yeah. It's awesome.

• 47:15Danny Jones?

  Oh my God. I just had the craziest weekend hanging out at Metallica and.

• 47:19Speaker 01

  To hang out with them.

• 47:19Danny Jones?

  I was hanging out with Kirk all weekend.

• 47:21Speaker 01

  It's amazing.

• 47:21Danny Jones?

  Yeah. And anyways, I so I didn't sleep that night. And then um my kid woke up at like fricking five o'clock in the morning. And the next day I had to work. So I was like, fuck it. I took a a quarter of a twenty milligram Adderall, five milligrams. And it's just like, I mean, I take it in the past. When I was younger, I used to take it a couple of times a week just to get work done. And uh it just, it it it sucks the soul out of me. It just turns me into a robotic machine that can just complete tasks.

• 47:47Speaker 01

  But it helps you get through the day.

• 47:48Danny Jones?

  It helps you get through the day. Yeah. But then the next day, I feel like shit again. Cause it's like you're you're robbing from you're robbing the dopamine from tomorrow for today.

• 47:55Speaker 01

  I think there there is no drug on the planet that doesn't like. It gives and it sucks. You know what I mean? Like gives a little and then it like sucks a little. And that's what I look a little bit differently towards like uh something like testosterone, because testosterone is a hormone. And it's a hormone that we need. And it's a hormone that helps us like, you know, perform better. And I don't see that many drawbacks to it. Whereas like with a lot of these other pharmaceuticals, I see like they have a great upside, but they also have a a great downside. Even things like we were talking about kratom before.

• 48:26Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 48:26Speaker 01

  Um, I think I was kind of the catalyst for why kratom exploded in this country. When I made the movie A Leaf of Faith, I was on Joe Rogan's podcast uh talking about kratom.

• 48:38Danny Jones?

  Yeah, you were on Rogan's podcast, what, like three times?

• 48:40Speaker 01

  Think four.

• 48:41Danny Jones?

  Four times.

• 48:41Speaker 01

  And I was a huge proponent of kratom.

• 48:43Danny Jones?

  I told, I was, by the way, uh, quick side note, I was telling your brother, I was laughing my ass off when he was talking about his kale salads. You're like, what the fuck?

• 48:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 48:51Danny Jones?

  I have a T-bone pussy. That was so funny. He's like, what? I feel great with my kale shakes.

• 48:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. So um.

• 48:58Danny Jones?

  Funny, the evolution.

• 48:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, and so Rogan was instrumental in actually keeping kratom legal. This is pretty insane, but um.

• 49:05Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 49:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, so when I was making the movie, I I had become friendly with Joe from the UFC, from from being on his podcast. And then he invited us to go to like a UFC. And so I like went to this UFC and I saw him there and like chatted with him and whatever. And um. And I told him like, hey, man, they're gonna like ban kratom like like literally in a couple days. Can you mention this on your podcast? And he's like, oh, yeah, sure. Why don't you come in like come in on this date? I'm like, come in, you want me to be on your podcast again? He goes, yeah, just he's like, we'll just do like an emergency podcast and we'll talk about the kratom problem. If I can help, that's great. And so I went in there and I talked about it and I I basically told everything I know. I mean, this is a natural plant and

• 49:50Speaker 01

  this is before they've made all these kratom extracts and all these really high potency kratom products. This was just like, simple like leaf kratom, you know, a ground up leaf. If anybody doesn't know what kratom is, it's an it's basically a plant from Southeast Asia that's in the same family as the coffee family. And it is a mild opioid that will make you feel really good. But if you take a lot of it over a long period of time, it will become addictive, just like anything else, habit forming. It's hard to get off of if you're taking a lot of it. But we've always saw that like, hey, if you keep it under like 10 grams a day, you'll never have a problem like it's it's not going to be, I mean, I

• 50:33Speaker 01

  shouldn't say never. But for the most part, if you keep it under a certain amount a day, you're not going to have a problem. And what the problem is, people start making, you know, all these concoctions where they're taking 50 milligrams of kratom, 100 milligrams of kratom, becomes very addictive, right? But back to what I was saying with with Joe is that I went on the podcast. And I said, listen, the DEA is going to schedule this as a drug unless we can get like 25,000 I think it was 10 no 10,000 if we can get 10,000 signatures. You know, not even signatures, like you had to like write like a short email to the to the DEA. Right? If you write a short email to the DEA saying they should

• 51:15Speaker 01

  keep kratom legal, you know, say something like, hey, kratom helped my brother's back problem. Kratom helped me, you know, get through school. Kratom helped me with it. Tell them, tell them why, in an honest way, it helped you. Yeah, or even tell them why you don't think it should be legal. I don't care what you tell them, just tell them something If they get more than 10,000 comments, they have to read them all. And if they have to read them all, most likely they'll just back down because they're not going to want to read them all. And so, uh, the next day, um, we went and checked the website and it was like 28,000 people that sent emails. No way. Yeah, into the, um, into the DEA to say, hey, we, you know, we should keep kratom legal. We should keep looking at it.

• 52:00Speaker 01

  The problem with kratom is the same problem we have with weed in this country is like, you know, kratom used to be this wholesome plant that was, you know, did so, so much good for so many people. But then they start making extracts, they start making concentrates. Um, they are now making, taking alkaloids of kratom and separating them out and making really super concentrated forms of kratom, which I'm not against. What I'm against is that they sell them in smoke shops and they don't tell people how addictive they can be. Right. They don't, they're not educating people on them. Um, there might be a reason for me to do another documentary that would follow up a leaf of faith, which is my documentary on kratom.

• 52:40Speaker 01

  To sort of really just educate people about it so that we don't get ourselves into another opioid epidemic. Because I do believe that this new product, it's called 7OH or 7-hydroxymetrogenine, it's an alkaloid of kratom. I believe. 7-hydroxymetrogenine? Yes. You can buy it at any smoke shop. You walk into a smoke shop or even gas stations now, you'll see tons of it everywhere. And the problem is people are spending, you know, it's expensive. It's like for, on average, for five tablets, it's like 35 bucks. So it's like seven bucks a tablet. People are taking five tablets at once, you know, they're taking it all at once and they're. What's the effect? It'll get you high like an oxycontin. Okay. But.

• 53:25Speaker 01

  But if you take it in like a lower dose, just a normal dose, it'll kill pain like crazy. So that's where I'm coming in saying like, we're not supposed to take the whole damn package. Right. But like, I can't control that. And so in order to control, and, and the companies that are coming out, they're coming out and they're called opia, or they're called pressed, or they're called, you know, blues. They have these names that sound like drugs. Right. And when I have names that sound like drugs, it can turn people off. You know, it, it, it's sort of telling you like, hey, man, you're buying a drug. Yeah. And if we want to make this a potent painkiller that can really help people, uh, there needs to be some sort of process or some sort of, you know, way to do that.

• 54:08Speaker 01

  So I'm actually talking to some people about possibly doing another documentary about kratom because I do think it can really help the, a lot of people, but it needs to be, there needs to be education on it. Right. Um, the same thing also, like on the flip side of kratom is ibogaine. Yeah. And, um, I'm also talking to some people about doing a documentary about ibogaine. Cause if people don't know what ibogaine is, it'll flip an opioid addiction in like 48 hours. It's one of the most insane drugs I've ever dealt with. It will reset all your neurotransmitters in your body. It'll kill pain in your body. For me, uh, I did a ibogaine trip. You can actually watch it on YouTube. It's called Ibo Gains.

• 54:52Speaker 01

  So I, it's I B O G A I N Z. I love it. And it's just a little short film I put together about my experience. It's gotten ripped off of YouTube like several times. So it's been on there and off there and on. And it's back, it's back on there anyway, but, um, so I just made this short film about my experience with ibogaine. And the reason I did ibogaine was simply because I have such bad chronic pain. Like I said, I was going through a period of time where I was doing whatever I could to try to get out of chronic pain. After I did ibogaine, the day after, this is stupid, right? I went from not being able to walk, like barely able to walk every day, I'd wake up and I'd literally be in tears, walking around and I'd be just walking around doing my daily

• 55:34Speaker 01

  stuff and this is gonna sound like a pussy, but I'd be crying going like, I need help. Like, I need fucking help. I can't do this anymore. You know, like, I'm done. And if this doesn't help, I don't know what I'm gonna do. Like, I'm done, you know? And, um, I was, like, don't wanna even say, but I was, like, suicidal, you know, to a point where I was like, this pain is so bad, there's nothing I can do to heal this or fix this. So I called a friend, he lives in, uh, Boston, his name is Jim, and Jim is like, uh, he, he's amazing. He's got this thick Boston accent, he's like an old school bodybuilder from Boston, and ibogaine saved his life. So he came out to visit me, it was the day

• 56:17Speaker 01

  before the world shut down for the pandemic, so it was March 16th of 2020, he flew out, like, last minute, um, administered ibogaine to me, I went on a trip that lasted, I wanna say, like, three or four days, where I was, like, in the clouds. Like, I don't know where I went. It lasted that long? Yeah. My soul, like, left my body. How do you take it? It's just a pill. Just a pill? It's just a- And it lasts that long? Yeah. It, it was a series of pills. So what it was, was, I took, like, 250 milligrams, I think, every, like, every hour, maybe, for five or six hours. So, and what

• 56:56Speaker 01

  happened was, um, I dosed it at a really, really high level, because my pain was so bad, and I kept, like, asking for more. I don't know why, because I was in the, in the middle of the trip, um, and I ended up taking about two grams of it, which is a lot. Like, if you go to a clinic in Mexico, they'll probably give you one gram, but I think because I got two grams, I blasted off to the moon. It was, so, in the beginning of it, it was the most horrific, like, horrible, you see every tragedy in your life, every bad thing that's happened. In your life and you just keep turning the page and then something's worse comes up and then something worse comes up and it's like you're reliving all these past memories.

• 57:41Speaker 01

  But then all of a sudden, like I got through all these like bad memories of like being picked on in school. Yeah. You know, like, like you remember the, the most unique, like weird things. And then all of a sudden, like I saw like a flashbulb go off and I'm like, oh, there goes all my depression. And another flashbulb goes off and goes, there goes all the anxiety and another flashbulb goes off and goes, there goes all the pain. Hey, you're free. You're free to go. And then I saw my older brother who passed away and I was telling your producer Steve before. It's not like I felt like I saw and talked to my brother. I talked to my brother. Like it was real. It was so real. I can't describe how.

• 58:22Speaker 01

  It's hard to describe how close it was to like a real interaction. Like I, I feel it was real. You know, like I feel like my brother came to me and said, hey, I know I fucked up and I did a lot of drugs and I did a lot of crazy things in my life, but I'm here where I am because this is where I'm supposed to be. Hmm. And none of this is your fault. And like, that was so profound and crazy. It was like literally the most profound thing that ever happened to me. It was like, wait, what just happened? Like all this stuff that I was holding on to for years just left my body.

• 59:00Speaker 01

  You know, and then, um, the day after I did Ibo gain, I walked into the gym and I put four, like, you know, I was always a power lifter. Mm hmm. So I put 405 on the bar and go, let me just like, I, I just started working out. I was like, okay, let me do one plate. Okay. Two plates, three plates, four plates. I go, I go up to four plates. The day after I did Ibo gain and I do, you know, a set of 10 with 405, going from like, I can't walk. To like, let me lift four oh five for ten reps. To me, it was just like the most insane thing that I've ever, like, ever happened to me. And I'm like, this drug needs to be explored. This needs to be looked at. This needs to be something that people can have access to.

• 59:44Speaker 01

  Because I don't know what the fuck happened. You know, like, I still don't know. That's so wild, bro. You know, Mark always says, be careful, because like, for six months afterwards, I was telling everybody. I was like, IboGAIN preacher, like, everybody needs this, you know, and then you're sort of mature and you learn, like, hey, just chill, because like, what is it gonna be like in six months? And that's where my brother comes in, he's really wise with all that stuff, and he said, give it some time before you tell everybody. Right. And so I just started, like, you know, I calmed down a little bit, like, telling people about it. And then, of course, the pain came back. You know, it came back again. How, how long did it take? About six months. Wow.

• 1:00:29Speaker 01

  But if we could find something, there's something in there. If you could find something that can kill pain for six months and you only had to do it once, why can't you figure out a way to make that molecule into something where you don't have to have that, you don't have to maybe go through that trip again? Like, maybe there's something, there's something there, put it that way. And Big Pharma's not looking into it. You know, nobody's looking into it. They're looking into it, they're looking how to subvert it. Yeah, how, how to- Shut it down. How to keep it shut down. And there's a guy I'm helping, uh, I've been helping and working with a little bit, his name's Brian Hubbard. He's amazing. He's like, he was on Rogan before. Okay. I think he might be the longest speaker on Joe Rogan with Rogan not talking. Really?

• 1:01:13Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, he talked for like twenty-five minutes straight about IboGAIN. And how amazing it is. I remember that one. Yeah, that, that guy is gonna, I, so right now in Texas, where I live, IboGAIN is up to be legalized for, uh, you know, clinical trials. So we might get some clinical trials soon. If we get clinical trials, it'll be, you know, available for people to use. But I think we need to expand it. Right now, it's like, they're really focusing on veterans with PTSD, and they're focusing on addicts. More, more on veterans. Yeah. I think people- With addicts, unfortunately, I think people throw them away.

• 1:01:52Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:01:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, who cares about the addicts? Like, let's help the the veterans, you know?

• 1:01:56Danny Jones?

  There's this dude Dana Beal, I think that's his name Dana Beal, who is this, uh, he's this hardcore psychedelic guy from the psychedelic Renaissance, old school guy who is allegedly piloting. He's flying ibogaine from Africa to the Ukraine to give ibogaine to the Ukraine soldiers.

• 1:02:16Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:02:16Danny Jones?

  To help them, like, to treat their not only like battle fatigue and the PTSD, to like, help them process that and like, get back out in the battlefield.

• 1:02:25Speaker 01

  It's crazy.

• 1:02:26Danny Jones?

  Which is wild. So he's giving them ibogaine and then I think the Russian soldiers are giving, um, some form of like meth.

• 1:02:34Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:02:34Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it's insane. But like, that's super, that's super helpful. And I know the government is definitely spending a lot of money studying this shit, especially, um, there is this lab, chemistry lab, I think it is, up in North Carolina, that DARPA gave a $20 million grant to, to figure out how to take the trip out of psychedelics, specific, certain psychedelics. So they could basically give soldiers this psychedelics and have the benefit of the psychedelic for, for, you know, PTSD recovery, things like this, but without having the like hallucination.

• 1:03:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, they actually did it and, um, it's really interesting. So I talked to this guy, uh, I want to say his name's Dr. Olson. David, I think his name's Dr. David Olson. He's in, um.

• 1:03:26Danny Jones?

  Yeah, Nick Nichols, David Nichols?

• 1:03:28Speaker 01

  I think it's Olson.

• 1:03:29Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:03:30Speaker 01

  And he's in, um, so there's Nolan Williams, he's at Stanford. He's doing a lot of the ibogaine studies. But this other guy at, um, UC Davis, because I used to live in Davis. Um, that's kind of where Mark lives in that area. And so, um, when I was there, I talked to this guy who basically was able to synthesize ibogaine. Um, it's called like tabernathalog. And tabernathalog is available.

• 1:03:57Speaker 01

  On um, you know, like the research chemical sites where you can buy, you know, all the peptides? Yeah. You can get this stuff called tabernathalog. And it's like Tabernathalog. It's like $700 a gram. But it's ibogaine without um, without the high. They've, they've basically said that they can take what happens with an ibogaine trip? And put it into a pill. Um, but you can buy it as a research chemical. It's just that like Not for human consumption. Yeah. Well, I, here's the thing, like, uh, my girlfriend doesn't like me doing any of this stuff and experimenting and messing around. So I try to stay, you know, true to that. I would love to order it and try it.

• 1:04:39Speaker 01

  But if I order it and try it, I'm gonna get in trouble. So I need somebody else to try it for me to see like, hey, man, what happens? You know, because uh, I, I understand, I understand like not, you know, hey, don't try this, don't try that. Cause I, in the past, to be honest, I had been very reckless with, you know, different substances. And I think that um, being reckless though has brought me back around to like now being a lot more responsible with stuff. Sure. You know, cause I'm like, whoa, man, that was wild. You know, like I've, when I experimented with psilocybin mushrooms, I really experimented. I've gone up to, I've talked to my friend Kyle Kingsbury. He told me like, oh yeah, I've taken up to like 20 grams of mushrooms. So my stupid ass is like, I'm gonna try that, you know? For the first time?

• 1:05:24Speaker 01

  No, not the first time, but for like, maybe the fifth time. It wasn't, I wasn't that far in enough to do it. And I didn't have anybody like tripsitting me, you know, and like, you know, it's just, this dumb. Right. But I had one of the most amazing experiences ever. I felt like we, I thought, I thought we were being invaded. First of all, I thought we were in a simulation. I would like look at the wall and I'd see a crack in the wall and go, and I, and for some reason I thought I had to like go talk to like Joe Rogan and Elon Musk about it. Like they must know, they know about this. I gotta get to them. They have to, you know? And then I, I, like, everything around me would just crack and fall and like, it was wild. And then um, I eventually went

• 1:06:07Speaker 01

  I got my blanket and my pillow and I walked outside to my car and I started packing things in my car because I thought that the Russians were dropping a bomb on us. I don't know why. It was like cloudy out that day and it was dark out and I thought like, you know, and Joe Rogan said, oh, before you even know it, before the sky even becomes dark, you're gonna be dead. And I'm like, oh shit, like they're, you know, and this is all on a mushroom trip. You know, this is just like, that's what happens when you're a little bit reckless.

• 1:06:34Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:35Speaker 01

  It was fun, but like, you know, it, what did I get out of it? Probably nothing.

• 1:06:39Danny Jones?

  Yeah, that's why it's good to, you know, have somebody, if you're gonna go that hard, like to, you know, be in a safe environment and have somebody like who knows what they're fucking doing because I mean, like, no one's ever died from psychedelics. The only thing that kills people when they're doing these kinds of drugs is like, being around a large body of water and not knowing how to swim when you're fucking zonked on.

• 1:06:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, and, and like I said, like I went and got stuff and walked out. It's like, you don't know, like you, you know, you're not paying attention. So it's like,

• 1:07:03Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:03Speaker 01

  you should be paying attention, you know, I, so I definitely don't recommend that, but I've, I've walked that path and I think it's good to be honest about that, you know?

• 1:07:11Danny Jones?

  Hmm. Yeah, totally. Um, I gotta take a leak real quick. I made the mistake of breaking the seal before we started and I'm fucked. We'll be right back. Metallica is your favorite band?

• 1:07:19Speaker 01

  Oh dude, I love Metallica. I can't believe we got to hang out with them. You know, I worked, so we, we've had just a fucking crazy storied life. And I, I worked at, uh, Woodstock. I think it was like Woodstock, like they redid it in like 94. I think they did it again in 99. And so we worked as like security guards for Woodstock.

• 1:07:39Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 1:07:40Speaker 01

  And Metallica played at Woodstock. And like my brother's Mad Dog, his claim to fame was like, he was like, he fell asleep because he was like, we were doing security. He fell asleep and he got blasted with like super soakers. And he fucking woke up. I was like, who the fuck did that? He's all, you know, Mad Dog was huge. He was all pissed. And he's like looking around and he looks and it's the tour bus and it's Metallica out the windows of their, of their bus shooting my brother with fucking.

• 1:08:06Danny Jones?

  Oh my god. At Woodstock 1999?

• 1:08:10Speaker 01

  1994, I think.

• 1:08:11Danny Jones?

  Oh, 1994?

• 1:08:12Speaker 01

  Yeah. And they were like, look, this guy fell asleep, fucking blasting him.

• 1:08:16Danny Jones?

  Holy, bro.

• 1:08:16Speaker 01

  So that was, that was the closest we've ever got to Metallica.

• 1:08:19Danny Jones?

  Find a video of Woodstock 94. I gotta say, I was watching a video of the 1999 one the other day and it was totally insane. The amount of people that were there.

• 1:08:30Speaker 01

  I always used to work security for all these concerts. So you see where like the people are sliding in the mud?

• 1:08:37Danny Jones?

  Find a photo of like the crowd, like a big wide.

• 1:08:38Speaker 01

  See that guy in the mud?

• 1:08:40Danny Jones?

  Uh, yeah.

• 1:08:41Speaker 01

  The funny thing about the mud that people didn't know is a lot of the mud came from people knocking over outhouses.

• 1:08:47Danny Jones?

  No.

• 1:08:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. So people were like sliding down the hill in the mud and it was like poop, but they didn't know it.

• 1:08:55Danny Jones?

  Fucked, bro. Oh my God. Is that Limp Bizkit on the top left? Is that Fred Durst?

• 1:09:01Speaker 01

  I think I might even still have my shirt from it. Like I had a shirt that said Peace Patrol on the back.

• 1:09:06Danny Jones?

  Look at that, bro.

• 1:09:09Speaker 01

  Yeah. So we grew up in like Poughkeepsie, New York, and this was in upstate New York. Woodstock's not very far.

• 1:09:15Danny Jones?

  That's it. How many people are there?

• 1:09:19Speaker 01

  Uh, we're ninety-four.

• 1:09:20Danny Jones?

  Ninety-nine. Yeah.

• 1:09:21Speaker 01

  The Woodstock ninety-four Metallica. I think it was, um, I think, I want to say it was like, uh, Nine Inch Nails, Metallica and Aerosmith, like all in a row. It was pretty dope.

• 1:09:31Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I, I got to, I met Kirk not too long ago because I guess he was bizarrely a fan of this podcast, which is.

• 1:09:39Speaker 01

  I don't find that to be bizarre at all.

• 1:09:40Danny Jones?

  It blows my fucking mind that that guy of all people.

• 1:09:43Speaker 01

  I find, I think he would be a huge fan of this.

• 1:09:45Danny Jones?

  He's really into, you know, a lot of like the esoteric stuff and a lot of stuff like, you know, some of like the, you know, more of the fringe podcasts that I've done. And he was like, dude, he is, uh.

• 1:09:54Speaker 01

  I think he's the best guitarist in the world. I think he's fucking beyond so many other people. I think he never gets like the credit really.

• 1:10:02Danny Jones?

  I'll tell you what, dude, I've never met anybody who is that emotionally connected to their craft, especially after doing it at the highest level possible for over forty years.

• 1:10:14Speaker 01

  And he's so like low key. Like he's never causing a problem. He's never, you know, the asshole.

• 1:10:20Danny Jones?

  Right. No, not at all.

• 1:10:21Speaker 01

  There's that one scene in the movie where they, um, it's amazing. There's a scene in, um, I want to say it's in the making of the Black Album. Yeah, it's in the making of The Black Album, but I forget what the documentary is called, but maybe A Day in the Life of Metallica or something, Day and a Half in the Life of Metallica. So anyway, they, he, um, he gets all flustered and he gets all pissed. And he's like, I can't, I can't do this, man. It's not like coming through. And they're like trying to record The Unforgiven. They're trying to record a solo and he does it a couple more times and he like throws his guitar down and he's like, I'm, I'm coming back tomorrow. And then he comes back in the next day and he just goes, I'm fucking, I'm so ready. Let's just go. And he just jams that like first take of that like solo for The Unforgiven.

• 1:11:06Speaker 01

  He just jams it in one take. And then sort of goes, okay, cool. We're good. And he couldn't get it like the day before. He just couldn't, it couldn't crack it. You know, and I never thought they made music that way. I thought like they had it maybe written out. I don't know what I thought. But just seeing that process was really cool.

• 1:11:22Danny Jones?

  Yeah. What really shocked me the most about him was just like after all these years, like touring and creating all these albums for touring across the country, being in front of, you know, stadiums full of, you know, hundreds of thousands of people, millions of people. The fact that even today, like I think he's in his 60s now.

• 1:11:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:40Danny Jones?

  He still has that insane creative spark. Where he's like connected to the muse or whatever it is, where he's like super motivated to create new shit, come up with new music.

• 1:11:52Speaker 01

  How do you even care?

• 1:11:53Danny Jones?

  He's still trying to push the envelope as far as he possibly can. He's trying to, he's thinking about, you know, doing all these other kinds of projects and he's so interested in all kinds of stuff when typically people at that level. You know, who have reached that insane level of success. They, they kind of lose that spark. You know what I mean? They get comfortable. And they just kind of like settle into success and the comfort.

• 1:12:15Speaker 01

  I think Metallica, I think a lot of people have like written them off too. If you like listen to their last album, it's amazing.

• 1:12:20Danny Jones?

  Oh my God, it's incredible. It really is.

• 1:12:23Speaker 01

  I think that people have gotten, that people have written them off and like, ah, I listen to the old stuff. I'm like, no, the new stuff is really good.

• 1:12:30Danny Jones?

  Yeah. And this, that concert I was telling you about, there were two shows they did. They did a show on Friday and a show on Saturday. And um, I've never been to a Metallica show before that.

• 1:12:38Speaker 01

  Oh, really?

• 1:12:39Danny Jones?

  No, never. I mean, I remember getting the Black Album when it first came out. It was like one of my first, the first CDs I ever, like one of the first three CDs I ever owned. And uh, like going to that concert at Raymond James Stadium, there was 90,000 people there. And it was kinda like how I was explaining to the WWE WrestleMania. It was similar, but it was just like on another level because there was 90,000 people all shoulder to shoulder. And the music is fucking, like the heavy metal is blasting, the pyrotechnics is going off. There was the, there's the light show that's happening at the same time. And everybody, it's like, it's like every atom of every human being in that entire stadium is resonating at this frequency.

• 1:13:20Danny Jones?

  And you can fucking feel it. And like, bro, if, if I was from 2,000 years ago, and I took a time machine to that concert, that Metallica concert, those dudes are gods.

• 1:13:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:32Danny Jones?

  I, I, those dudes are fucking gods.

• 1:13:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's wild, right? How they just command. And James Hetfield's so cool. Like we went to, um, I went to the, um, the most recent San Francisco Orchestra thing that they did in San Francisco. And um, where they played with the orchestra and it was just so well done. You ever seen that?

• 1:13:52Danny Jones?

  I haven't seen that.

• 1:13:53Speaker 01

  Oh, you gotta see it. Yeah, they play with-

• 1:13:55Danny Jones?

  Pull it up.

• 1:13:55Speaker 01

  They play with the orchestra and it's just so, it's just so well constructed. The way that they flow with this, you know, they're playing with-

• 1:14:03Danny Jones?

  How long ago was this?

• 1:14:04Speaker 01

  A whole nerdy San Francisco orchestra. That uh, this is a couple of years ago, like maybe five years ago. A friend of mine like just got tickets to it.

• 1:14:13Danny Jones?

  It's also amazing they've been to stay together for, they've stayed, you know, as a, like a solid crew for so long.

• 1:14:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, like if you look at uh, No Leaf Clover, that, that's what like, see that San Francisco Symphony, S and M two, full concert, that's- It says, "When it comes to being the soothing light at the end of your tunnel is just a freight train coming your way." That's so deep.

• 1:14:32Danny Jones?

  Ooh.

• 1:14:33Speaker 01

  You know, like you think you're going, hey, go to the light, go to the light. It's just a freight train coming to run you over. So like you feel like I'm going towards the light and then-

• 1:14:41Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:14:42Speaker 01

  So that's like one of my favorite lines, you know?

• 1:14:45Danny Jones?

  Yeah, man.

• 1:14:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, Metallica is dope.

• 1:14:48Danny Jones?

  Yeah, Metallica is the fucking shit.

• 1:14:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, I I've been a fan of Metallica since I was a kid and so I remember going to the And Justice For All concert where they had like the giant Lady Justice and it like blows up on this, you know, it's a it's a giant statue like Lady Justice and it like falls apart and like the whole stage starts coming apart and you think it's real.

• 1:15:08Danny Jones?

  Oh, really?

• 1:15:08Speaker 01

  The stage blows up like the um.

• 1:15:10Danny Jones?

  What year are we talking that you're going to these shows?

• 1:15:12Speaker 01

  Nineteen ninety. Ninety, yeah, like I I want to say even maybe.

• 1:15:16Danny Jones?

  Yeah, that was like late eighties, I thought Justice For All.

• 1:15:18Speaker 01

  And Justice For All might have been eighty-eight.

• 1:15:19Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:15:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I was I was a kid, you know, going to that shit.

• 1:15:23Danny Jones?

  God, also.

• 1:15:24Speaker 01

  My brother went to all that stuff, so he was like the one that led us into all that stuff.

• 1:15:29Danny Jones?

  You want to talk about like wrestling being a different thing in the eighties? This Metallica and like metal in concerts was like a whole different fucking beast in the eighties, I bet.

• 1:15:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, and like I said, we worked all the concerts, so like we were.

• 1:15:42Speaker 01

  My brothers and I were always like, you know, we were always big dudes like compared to most other people. And so, uh, I I'm short, but I was jacked, you know?

• 1:15:50Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:50Speaker 01

  And I was strong, so we always got hired to work concerts. And so we'd work all these concerts and they'd be like Iron Maiden concerts, Beastie Boys. You know, I've worked like, name it, Lip Biscuit, like Kid Rock, like work all these concerts and usually we were put in the spot where you're in between the audience and the band.

• 1:16:10Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:16:10Speaker 01

  So like, there's like usually like a little gap there, so you know, um, in case, you know, people get crushed up against the wall and you gotta pull them over the wall. Other times people are fighting, you gotta pull them over the wall. Other times people are trying to get on stage, you gotta, you know, get off stage. Um, but you know what's crazy? The craziest concert I ever worked by far was in Vermont and it was a Grateful Dead concert. And, yeah, and it was supposed to be like twenty-five thousand people outside, peaceful, you know, a little Grateful Dead concert. Two hundred and fifty thousand people showed up and just rushed the gates. And we just basically took our jackets off and went in and hung out. Like, I don't, I didn't.

• 1:16:47Danny Jones?

  There was nothing you could have done?

• 1:16:49Speaker 01

  No, I mean, what are you gonna do? You're getting, you're making like, you know, ten bucks an hour. So you're like, I'm not fighting this. This whole crowd.

• 1:16:55Danny Jones?

  That's insane.

• 1:16:56Speaker 01

  At first, we were running and grabbing these guys off the, you know, they're trying to climb a fence.

• 1:17:02Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:02Speaker 01

  And so you run and you're like, okay, cool. I got one and then cool. I got one.

• 1:17:06Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:06Speaker 01

  And then one of my friends climbed the fence after a guy went to grab him and ripped his like arms up like, like just blood and we're, that's when I'm like, hey, man, it's not worth it.

• 1:17:16Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:17:17Speaker 01

  And what am I gonna do? These people want to get in, let them in.

• 1:17:20Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:20Speaker 01

  I don't care.

• 1:17:21Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Jesus, man.

• 1:17:23Speaker 01

  So it's like when crowd control becomes impossible, you know?

• 1:17:26Danny Jones?

  Right. Yeah. I mean, imagine that the, have you seen the, um, the video of the crowd that was in Moscow? When they played in Moscow?

• 1:17:35Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:17:36Danny Jones?

  Metallica. Type in Metallica Moscow is the most out of control. Like insane crowd I've ever seen at a rock show. Look at that. Look at some of those photos, bro. Look at that one in the bottom right. Metallica's biggest concert, 9091, uh, Moscow. Look at that.

• 1:17:57Speaker 01

  Yeah. So weirdest thing too, because like, I think it's a very American thing. Like we don't really listen to other people's music. You know, there's nobody that comes over here.

• 1:18:06Danny Jones?

  There's a lot of, um, there's a lot of, of European death metal bands and heavy metal bands.

• 1:18:11Speaker 01

  Yeah. What I'm saying though is like, we don't really listen to it like they do, like that, that's, you know?

• 1:18:16Danny Jones?

  That is another level. I don't think I've ever seen anything. I've never seen a crowd like that.

• 1:18:22Speaker 01

  I wonder how many people that is, did they say?

• 1:18:25Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Is there an estimate on how many people were there in Moscow?

• 1:18:29Speaker 01

  You can ask Trump. It'll be two million.

• 1:18:33Danny Jones?

  The Moscow Metallica show didn't even.

• 1:18:36Speaker 01

  Three million people there.

• 1:18:37Danny Jones?

  Metallica Moscow paled in comparison to the inauguration.

• 1:18:42Danny Jones?

  1.6 million people, the Monsters of Rock Festival.

• 1:18:48Speaker 01

  Oh yeah. I remember they did Monsters of Rock in, um, I think it was.

• 1:18:52Danny Jones?

  Soviet, oh yeah. Wait, wait. No, no, no. What year? 91? That was after the fall of the Soviet Union, right? It was after the wall came down. When did the wall come down? 90 or 91?

• 1:19:00Speaker 01

  Well, they also did a concert with, um, Guns N' Roses where there was a riot.

• 1:19:06Speaker 01

  Remember that?

• 1:19:06Danny Jones?

  Uh-uh.

• 1:19:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, there was a Monsters of Rock. It was in New Jersey, I believe.

• 1:19:09Danny Jones?

  Oh, really?

• 1:19:10Speaker 01

  And, um, Axl Rose came out and the microphones didn't sound right or something and he-

• 1:19:16Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah, I remember that.

• 1:19:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, he was just like, he just left and, uh, when he left, it caused like a riot.

• 1:19:22Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:19:22Speaker 01

  And then Metallica, I guess, like, made up for it, kind of. But, um, yeah, they hated Guns N' Roses after that. There was a big, uh, big battle of the bands, you know?

• 1:19:33Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:19:34Speaker 01

  And those were like my two favorite bands, you know?

• 1:19:37Danny Jones?

  Guns N' Roses.

• 1:19:38Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, back in the day.

• 1:19:39Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, Guns N' Roses.

• 1:19:40Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Yeah, that's, uh, it's crazy, man. It's crazy how, um, how those dudes have managed to keep it going for so long. And, uh, and still put on these crazy shows, selling out arenas all across the frickin' world.

• 1:19:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, everybody else falls apart, you know?

• 1:19:57Danny Jones?

  Yeah, they do. And then there's, you know, like the, like the amount of fucking, like, discipline it takes to keep the, your core group of guys together and like manage those relationships for so long, for decades, you know?

• 1:20:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:09Danny Jones?

  I mean, rock stars aren't like the most stable people in, in history, you know what I mean?

• 1:20:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:17Danny Jones?

  To be able to do that and manage that is, is pretty insane.

• 1:20:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's interesting to see that, like I said, like you said, the growth, like how-

• 1:20:24Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:25Speaker 01

  You know, how far they've come. They've been through like addiction. You know, I, when I went to that concert in, um,

• 1:20:32Speaker 01

  in San Francisco, it was the last day before James Hetfield went to rehab. And I felt so bad, man. I was like, man, he, I didn't know he, like, he played his heart out. I'm like, I didn't know he was struggling like that. Like, there's something about addiction with me that like, if somebody's an addict, it's like, I have such a empathy for that because I've been through it. You know, I've been to, um, and I've been through like every way of getting, getting over it too, you know? I've been to, um, I've been to one of the, when I, so I'll tell you my quick story of like when I was, um, addicted, I was an alcoholic and I was a drug addict because I had a double hip replacement surgery. It got botched where they messed up one side and it never really took.

• 1:21:13Speaker 01

  But they didn't know why I was in pain for two years. They didn't know that. For two years, they didn't know that they messed up. For two years, they just kept feeding me pills, the doctors. And so- I was addicted to opioids, but along with the opioids, I was also drinking, you know? And that causes like big problems, you know, where you just wake up and you don't even know where you are. And you know, just all sorts of huge problems like that. So I had to go to rehab. Um, I went to rehab in Malibu. So I was made, I made a documentary about how to get sober from pills and booze. And I relapsed on pills and booze and I ended up, you know, I, it was in the middle of making a movie. You know what? So I had like people invested money into this movie.

• 1:21:59Speaker 01

  I was making it. Everybody was happy with the progress and then I relapsed. And when I relapsed, I was so scared to tell the producers what happened and like, hey, man, like, listen, I kind of messed up. And if you go back and watch my movie, Prescription Thugs, it's all in there. I basically just said, let's just put it in the movie because it's, it shows how hard addiction is. It shows how like, even though I know I'm doing wrong, like I, I can't stop it. Like it's a monster. And, um, you know, I was able to basically get better. But the way that I got better was really interesting because I went to a rehab in Malibu because I, because I was making a movie. I had interviewed this guy, Richard Tate, and Richard Tate's still to this day, one of my good buddies.

• 1:22:44Speaker 01

  He owned Cliffside Malibu. It's like one of these hoity-toity, like high end, you know, uh, celebrity places where all these celebrities go, Lindsay Lohan and stuff like that.

• 1:22:55Danny Jones?

  Celebrity rehab place?

• 1:22:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, kind of like that, right? And so it's really expensive usually, but he let me go for free because I was making a movie and I, he knew I was still filming it. And he's like, let's see what happens. You come to my rehab, I'll fix you up. So I go to his rehab and I'm there for 11 days. And after 11 days, he's like, hey, we have a problem. We need more space and since you're not paying, I need to move you somewhere else. And I freaked out because my brother had died in a sober living facility and they wanted to move me to a sober living facility. So he said, well, instead of moving you to a sober living facility, I'm going to move you into a different place. That is like a, um, what do you call it? Sober living, right? So it's like a sober living where you, um,

• 1:23:39Speaker 01

  No, not a sober living. It's a, sorry, I didn't want to move into the sober living. So I ended up moving into a rehab that was like state run, like a state run rehab where people like go to jail. You know what I mean? Like if, if it's either go to rehab or go to jail. It's like one of those rehabs. And so I went to that rehab for 22 days. And when I was in that rehab, it was like being in like some sort of boot camp. You had to like make your bed every morning. You had to, you know, all these, all the, the Malibu one was fluff. And so for 11 days, I had like a fluff rehab. And then I had 22 days that felt like hell because I was just, you know, It's probably better.

• 1:24:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, it was amazing. It kind of like all worked out for the best because like I saw the best rehab in the country. The worst rehab in the country. I wouldn't say the worst because they did a good job of setting me straight. You know, I didn't want any drugs after that. I didn't want any alcohol after that. I just wanted to go home. And then the last 30 days I spent in a sober living facility. That's owned by Cliffside Malibu. That was like right on the beach in Malibu and it's beautiful. And it was like, you know, you couldn't really get any, any better than that. And so when I, when I walked out of rehab, like I just knew I wasn't going to go back to that again. Like I knew that that wasn't, you know, wasn't for me. Um, but I got to see all the ways in which it worked. And I also got to see all sorts of different addicts.

• 1:25:03Speaker 01

  And like what their addiction is from. And every single one of those addictions, they spring from some sort of pain. You know, if somebody's in pain, whether it's mental pain, physical pain. It doesn't matter. They're in some sort of pain. And it's, it launches this addiction. And all they're looking for is to get love, you know, to get compassion, to get empathy. And um, for some reason they're not getting that in their life. And they have these bad habits. And so it's like, I don't know, I've just always been so empathetic towards those people. I'd always felt like I, you know, I can help. I can help those people and I want to help those people. Right. And I've had so many people uh, hit me up after my films and say like, hey, man, you,

• 1:25:47Speaker 01

  you know, you saved my life or they'll hit me up on Instagram and say like, how do I get sober? And I'll tell people like, There's a lot of different ways to get sober. But the one thing I think people need to remember is like, don't discount the fact that AA is out there. AA has been around forever and AA is free. So if you're at the depths of depression and addiction, you can walk into an AA room and they will accept you. They will help you. It's not the best way. You know, it's definitely like it's there's a lot of stuff that you gotta believe in to

• 1:26:20Danny Jones?

  Yeah, isn't there some crazy story behind AA?

• 1:26:23Speaker 01

  Well, the AA started with LSD.

• 1:26:26Danny Jones?

  Oh, really?

• 1:26:27Speaker 01

  They start, yeah, it started with like a group of people getting together and using a little bit of LSD. And LSD seems to really be a way out for addiction, but since it's so

• 1:26:39Danny Jones?

  When was this?

• 1:26:40Speaker 01

  demonized. In the sixties, I wanna say.

• 1:26:43Danny Jones?

  Okay, that's when AA started?

• 1:26:44Speaker 01

  So I think it started in like 1934.

• 1:26:47Danny Jones?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:26:48Speaker 01

  But if you go back and read the AA, I just tell people this, the best place to start is pick up the AA Big Blue, it's a, it's called the big book on AA. It's just this big blue book. And you read through that book and it was written in the 30s. And when you read through that book, it'll tell you everything about why you're an addict. And you're going, how do they know this is like 1934? It's literally like prophesizing things.

• 1:27:11Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:11Speaker 01

  Because addicts have not changed since then. And that's the one thing that remains constant is like the addict is always the same, the behavior is always the same.

• 1:27:20Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:20Speaker 01

  You can tell the behavior. People become very manipulative. People will get their own way. People learn how to lie for what they need to get. And when you're helping those people, you gotta like learn how to shut those things down. You know, and sometimes you gotta be a little bit, a little bit mean, you know?

• 1:27:42Speaker 01

  But I'm telling you, like, it's, it's so rewarding to help people. You know, and that's why I make the documentaries I make and do what I do and I'm working on some future projects that I wanna really do. And I really think that I have a lot more in the tank to tell, you know?

• 1:27:58Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it also makes a lot of sense, the way you were explaining your I begain experience. You know how it kinda like? It exposes all of the deepest, darkest shit in your life, right? It like pulls the Band-Aids off all the scabs and then like exposes. It it's like a mirror where you have to really confront your deepest issues from a different perspective, right? From like outside your typical perspective, it gets you off like the normal vibration of your just your daily humdrum life that you get used to. And, you know, that is a super beneficial way I can understand. I can see why that would be a super beneficial way to kicking some addictions. You know what I mean? Like, um, you know, there's a lot, I know there's lots of different types of therapies. There's like Ibogaine, I know MDMA is one of them, but.

• 1:28:43Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:28:44Danny Jones?

  You know, just from my personal experience with just like edible marijuana. I eat a fucking marijuana gummy and I get blasted. I I start, I end up in like the fetal position in the corner, seeing all like the worst parts of my life. And I see like the worst case scenario in every part of my life. And I can find the direct path to the worst case scenario. I'm like, oh, my God, this is crazy. Like, everything's caving in on me. And, you know, at the end of it, I always come out with like some sort of revelatory aha moment. Or I've I've taken something useful out of that experience that can like help me in my everyday life. You know what I mean?

• 1:29:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:26Danny Jones?

  So, you know, the I can see why something like that would be a a super effective tool for kicking things like some of these addictions.

• 1:29:34Speaker 01

  Marijuana.

• 1:29:34Danny Jones?

  Opioid addictions and stuff like that.

• 1:29:36Speaker 01

  Marijuana gummies are interesting because, um, it's kind of the same thing with like kratom. Like I said, they they in Texas where I live, it's illegal, like THC is illegal. For whatever reason, it's illegal. So I bought these like Delta nine, you know, uh, gummies. They just seem like any normal everyday gummy.

• 1:29:55Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:55Speaker 01

  And I ate one and I was like out of it for three days straight. I mean, I don't, yeah, I mean, and then I looked at it and it has like, I wanna, I don't know how to compare Delta nine to like whatever. But I think Delta nine is so cheap that it says it has like 20,000 milligrams of Delta nine in it. And I'm like, this is insane. How is this legal? How do they, you, you can't sell THC, but you can sell this and it's it's so powerful. So like, I can't even take them anymore because I'm like, that's just way, you know.

• 1:30:23Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:23Speaker 01

  Way too potent. And, um, yeah, I mean, they they don't give you the greatest feeling. They give you like, you know, they'll. Make you happy for a little bit, but then you kinda same thing. You see your darkest.

• 1:30:37Danny Jones?

  Yeah, but I think that I think that shit's beneficial. I think, uh, you know, I don't think it's designed to just make you feel good and happy. It's a, it's not supposed to be an escape. Like I think I get, I get the most out of like the darkest trips. So the darkest experiences, you know what I mean? Like, you know, like one of the recent ones was just, I was, I fucking took one and it was like showing me, it was telling me that I need to spend more times with my kids and less time on bullshit. Yeah. And it's like, wow, that's great. That's not the devil.

• 1:31:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:31:05Danny Jones?

  That's, that's something that's good.

• 1:31:07Speaker 01

  No, I think so. Yeah. Like I think, um, I think that like there's with all drugs and all things like, uh, there's good and bad to them. You know, the bad for me of that gummy is more like, it just made me a zombie for three days and I don't.

• 1:31:20Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:31:20Speaker 01

  I, you know, it's like, and so then I've, I've taken like half of it and it's made me a zombie for a day. And I'm like, maybe I need to take like an eighth of it. You know what I mean? But it's crazy cause you get this whole big bag of like 20 gummies and it's like, I'm gonna take an eighth of it every.

• 1:31:34Danny Jones?

  Yeah. I love that. There's this company called Via. That's actually sponsored the show before, but they send you, they send me this, um, giant kit of all these different types of gummies that are beneficial for everything. There's like, they have, and there's THC or CBD ones. They have ones for sleep. They have ones for like creativity. They have ones for like, uh, called the love gummies that like get you, get you all horned up. Yeah. They get you a little bit high and horny at the same time. Fucking phenomenal. Highly recommend them. Oh my God. They fucking work. They're amazing. And they're not, they're not overly potent to where you're gonna like blast off to the moon, you know? So, um, I really like those ones. But like, yeah, you can get some of these gummies, like the fucking Death Star, or like some of these crazy gummies you can find from, you know,

• 1:32:18Danny Jones?

  underground people that will just be like, Jesus Christ, you'll be fucked.

• 1:32:22Speaker 01

  I used to be into the like, you know, like I said, I used to be into that kinda stuff for a while. And then I got to a point where, um, you know, like. I I've been sober from alcohol and pills like prescription painkillers for like 11 years.

• 1:32:39Danny Jones?

  So since that movie, that movie last time?

• 1:32:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, um, for for pain, yeah, and but but I've done every psychedelic since then. So I but I.

• 1:32:47Danny Jones?

  Well, psychedelics are different, though.

• 1:32:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, I look at it as different as well, you know, it's like I I definitely look at it as as being a different thing there and, you know, non addictive and they're not, you know. Um, and I've taken kratom. Some people will say, uh, actually, even when I was in rehab, after I got out of rehab, I was supposed to go speak at an AA meeting. And they didn't want me to speak because at the time I was taking kratom. And I had been talking about it. I had talked about it on Joe Rogan. And they're like, oh, you know, we don't. I'm like, you don't think I'm sober? I'm like, I take kratom for pain.

• 1:33:16Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:16Speaker 01

  And I think people have such a hard time deciphering the fact that like you're in physical pain. And and they don't care, though. They just they just go kratom bad, you know?

• 1:33:26Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:33:27Speaker 01

  And I think we need to stop putting substances in these bad, good or bad categories.

• 1:33:32Danny Jones?

  It's crazy because kratom kratom is no more dangerous than caffeine. Like, when's the last? I don't know if you're a coffee drinker, but I don't remember the last time I went a day without drinking a cup of coffee.

• 1:33:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:42Danny Jones?

  It's been it's been maybe two days in the last five years I haven't drank a cup of coffee. It's as like, I had Hamilton Morrison here recently. He was like a chemist.

• 1:33:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, I love him, yeah.

• 1:33:50Danny Jones?

  Yeah, he was he was explaining that to me. He's like. He was like, I don't think kratom is any different than caffeine. He's like, if you enjoy kratom and you want to have a couple of cups of kratom or pills of kratom every day, it's like. There's no, you know, there's no studies or scientific papers that show it's any more dangerous than caffeine. It doesn't kill anymore. Doesn't kill people. It's just like, you know, if it's useful to you, then take it. The the difference is the stigma that's attached to it. Or, you know, the different types of pharmaceutical companies that have been known to demonize certain drugs because it's not good for business.

• 1:34:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, I would say that the only thing with kratom that I just warn people about, because I've been through it, is, uh, it can be addictive and getting off of it.

• 1:34:26Danny Jones?

  So can caffeine.

• 1:34:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, and get and getting off of it just like is not fun. So I had to, you know, when I was told you I was taking, uh. At at one point, I got to taking these extracts and I would take several extracts a day. And when I was coming off of them, I was just using capsules. To come off. And so I would take like, one day I would take five capsules twice a day. Then I'd take three capsules twice a day, you know, then I take, and I would, I would taper down. And my girlfriend helped me taper down off of it. I told her like, hey, this is what's going on. I'm trying to get off of this. I was, cause I just wanted to like reset my body and be off everything. And I, I must've went through a good five or six days that were really, really rough days. And so I just want to tell people like, you might go through some tough days.

• 1:35:12Speaker 01

  Get yourself some magnesium, get yourself a bunch of vitamin C. You know, and then the bigger problem with um, coming off of daily kratom use. I, I think if you're not using it daily, I don't think you're going to develop a problem.

• 1:35:25Danny Jones?

  I drink these every day.

• 1:35:27Speaker 01

  I don't think you're going to develop a problem with those being such a low dose.

• 1:35:31Danny Jones?

  And this is an extract.

• 1:35:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know White Rabbit, they're great.

• 1:35:34Danny Jones?

  Yeah, they're fucking delicious.

• 1:35:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, they taste really good.

• 1:35:37Danny Jones?

  Mitragina speciosa extract.

• 1:35:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, I've actually talked to that company um, a couple of times. I should probably do something.

• 1:35:44Danny Jones?

  I drink, I drink one of those every day, except for the weekends.

• 1:35:48Speaker 01

  Did Mark send you some of those new brews? Those are good too.

• 1:35:51Danny Jones?

  And he sent me the Mind Bullet gummies too.

• 1:35:53Speaker 01

  New brews are a little bit weird at first. They're like, um, at first I was like, I don't like this. And then after a while, I just got, I really liked the taste of them and I like what they do, you know, I feel good.

• 1:36:02Danny Jones?

  I notice, um, I know you can drink like more than one of these White Rabbits and it's supposed to be like, it even says on here. It says, drink one of them and it's like a lightning bolt of energy. Drink two of them, you're on the couch.

• 1:36:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:36:12Danny Jones?

  I never drink two in a day. I only drink one because it's like a, it's like a mild stimulant, but it's also like calming, right? So it's not like I'm like super jittery, like if I drink a Red Bull. But I noticed, sometimes I notice myself, like if it's a Saturday and I haven't drank one in a day, I'll be like, man, I could go for a White Rabbit right now.

• 1:36:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:36:31Danny Jones?

  Then I'm like, just because I knew that popped into my head, I should go maybe two extra days without drinking one.

• 1:36:35Speaker 01

  And, and that's what I'm saying is like, if you do that, you're, you're going to be fine. The, the problem is when people, they'll take kratom capsules, they'll drink two of those. You know, and then, and then it's like piling up. And then it's like, I just want to be sure that we're not telling people to take something that can hurt them because like, if you're not taking kratom right now, don't. Don't get in, if you don't need it, don't get into it. But if you're in pain or you need like, even if you just want a little bit of bounce of, of energy, it is great. Take it once in a while, use it once in a while, but use it like responsibly. People, people tend to take that and say, well, he said I could use it every day.

• 1:37:13Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:37:14Speaker 01

  And we didn't, you know?

• 1:37:15Danny Jones?

  Yeah. What, what did, um, what did the Mayo Clinic say about kratom? Did they say something about them being dangerous? Are you aware of that?

• 1:37:21Speaker 01

  No, like recently?

• 1:37:23Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I don't know. I heard the Mayo Clinic was saying that kratom was dangerous.

• 1:37:26Speaker 01

  There's all sorts of, uh, things saying it's dangerous. Like there's all sorts of people trying to ban it. You know, it happens all the time, but I think the reason that they are trying to ban it is because

• 1:37:36Danny Jones?

  What is this?

• 1:37:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, unsafe and ineffective.

• 1:37:38Danny Jones?

  Who's this from? Oh, this is a Mayo Clinic website.

• 1:37:41Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. You just can't believe that. When you say, when it says it's ineffective.

• 1:37:46Danny Jones?

  Users swear by kratom for lifting mood and boosting energy, but there are many safety issues to question about whether kratom works.

• 1:37:54Speaker 01

  See where at the top it says unsafe and ineffective?

• 1:37:56Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:37:56Speaker 01

  It's the same thing they did with steroids. They would say, oh, they don't work.

• 1:37:59Danny Jones?

  Right. Oh, look, my, uh, what does that say? Kratom is an herbal extract that comes from the leaves, an evergreen tree called the, okay, Mitragynaspeciosa. That's what it says on the can. So that's just the, that's just like the scientific name for kratom.

• 1:38:13Danny Jones?

  So why are they saying it's unsafe?

• 1:38:15Speaker 01

  Side effects.

• 1:38:16Danny Jones?

  Weight loss. Kratom is known for side effects, including weight loss, dry mouth, nausea, and vomiting, constipation, liver damage, muscle pain, high blood pressure. Okay. So one tenth of the pharmaceutical products they, they advertise on every single football game on TV.

• 1:38:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, basically. Yeah. It's, if you look at this list.

• 1:38:32Danny Jones?

  Occasional pregnancy.

• 1:38:35Speaker 01

  See at the bottom, it says kratom products have been linked to a small number of deaths. Well, when I did my movie, I went and I scoped out every single death. There was like 44 at the time. There was one guy.

• 1:38:46Danny Jones?

  Forty-four kratom deaths? Oh, no, steroid deaths.

• 1:38:49Speaker 01

  No, this is, this is the kratom movie. So my movie, A Leaf of Faith, which is about kratom.

• 1:38:53Danny Jones?

  Got it.

• 1:38:54Speaker 01

  Which is actually available on YouTube. If anybody wants to see it, I think you can probably find it easiest on YouTube. Um, but in A Leaf of Faith, I went through and I, and I looked and I actually had a medical researcher that I was working with. We went through all the deaths and we sort of vetted them all and said like, okay, let's see. This guy had 10 drugs in his system, this guy, you know? And we vetted them all and there was one guy who was a 28 year old police officer from New York State who died officially from ingesting kratom. But you know why? He was dry scooping it and he choked on it and died. That's what he died from. And so it's like, when you look at that and you go, well, okay, that that's a kratom death, it counts.

• 1:39:38Speaker 01

  But that's like somebody falling down the stairs and dying and saying that your house killed him.

• 1:39:41Danny Jones?

  Right, yeah. Holy shit, I had one guy on this podcast once, remember? I forget the dude's name, he was dry scooping kratom right before we started the show. He was, not only that, he had, I think he had capsules. He had a kratom drink, like a, like his own custom kratom drink that he mixed together himself. And right before we hit record, he's like, hold on. Dry scoop, two giant scoops of kratom, I'm like, holy shit. Don't, we don't need to cut that out.

• 1:40:06Speaker 01

  That was nobody.

• 1:40:07Danny Jones?

  We don't want to sell them out, but let's, uh, he was-

• 1:40:09Speaker 01

  I just want to see it.

• 1:40:10Danny Jones?

  No, he did it right before we started.

• 1:40:12Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:40:14Danny Jones?

  But yeah, like, that's a lot, bro. I would be, I don't know what would happen to me if I took that much.

• 1:40:21Speaker 01

  Because the kratom is what they call hydrophobic. So you, you know, you can't mix it in water, it's like cinnamon. When you try to mix cinnamon into your Starbucks, you ever notice like it won't mix? Things are either fat soluble or they're water soluble.

• 1:40:33Danny Jones?

  It was tea he was drinking or something, but he had some sort of kratom drink.

• 1:40:36Speaker 01

  He, you can mix it up enough to make it kind of mix in, but it's always sludgy. It's always, it's always gross.

• 1:40:42Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:40:43Speaker 01

  There are a couple of companies, like I have a friend that has a company called Happy Hippo. And I know Happy Hippo is like, I don't know how well it works, but they've made some micronized kratom that you can dissolve. They're, they also make kratom, uh, what do you call it, like pouches? Yeah, they make kratom pouches that are pretty good, but I think they, if they were a little stronger, they'd be better. But, um- It's just another cool idea, you know, it's like put a little kratom in a pouch and you know. But yeah, I think that um the delivery methods definitely for kratom need to be improved because kratom itself is just like it's hard to take. That's why, you know, people take it in capsules because it's it doesn't mix in water.

• 1:41:23Danny Jones?

  Right. Yeah, I just love the fucking energy drinks, man. Just taste delicious.

• 1:41:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, you gotta do a lot to get to there, you know, to get to that point to make it taste delicious. Yeah, they did a really good job though.

• 1:41:33Danny Jones?

  They did a fucking phenomenal job, dude, because before I had a white rabbit, I had never had kratom. Like that was my first kratom ever was that thing. And I was just like, I remember I was doing, I literally had it right before a podcast. And I was like, what is happening to me? Why, why do I feel so fucking like calm but like focused right now? This is crazy.

• 1:41:53Speaker 01

  So I I made an energy drink. Actually, I made a kratom energy drink that I was selling for like a little while. And it just kind of kind of it's a there's a lot to that business. It's really difficult.

• 1:42:03Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:42:04Speaker 01

  To like get in that business and then, you know, scale it up. So we made a drink called Full Bore. That's a great, it's a great drink. They actually sell it here in Florida still, I think. Um, but my friend of mine owns the company and he saw, you know, I was basically like just a small part of it. But yeah, there's a lot to to to make that happen. It's there's a lot that goes into it.

• 1:42:24Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 1:42:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:42:25Danny Jones?

  Yeah, there's so many different kratom products, man. It's crazy. Especially when you're getting into like all like the different types of pills and stuff they sell at the gas stations. It's like, you know, it's a it's a minefield if you want to navigate it and like, you know, figure it out.

• 1:42:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, and that's the one thing like when I made the film A Leaf of Faith. I would, I said like, hey, I'm I'm not going to sell kratom. I don't care about it, you know? And looking back at it, I probably should have because I could have made a fortune off of doing it. Um, but I think things work out for a reason. I think like the I don't. I don't think it's good to be a proponent or advocate of something and be so heavily involved in it.

• 1:43:03Danny Jones?

  I agree.

• 1:43:03Speaker 01

  You know, so it's like I'm trying to and I'm also trying to like be honest is like when I made that movie. We didn't have any research on addiction for kratom. Like I went on Reddit and I was. Look up all these people that say they were addicted to kratom and I'd contact each one of them. And I couldn't get one person to talk to me about addiction. Now I think it's a different story. So I think it warrants like doing some sort of update because like nowadays. There's so many people saying that they're addictive. There's gotta be people that'll talk. And I want to get their stories. I want to know like what, you know, what the deal is, what's going on? Is it addictive? Is it not addictive? Is it good? Is it bad? Like, let's, let's talk it out, you know?

• 1:43:41Danny Jones?

  Yeah, well, I mean, it's like, I think this was stated on your, on the bigger, stronger, faster documentary, but like drugs aren't good or bad, right?

• 1:43:51Speaker 01

  They just are.

• 1:43:51Danny Jones?

  There's a, there's a risk and a reward. All drugs are is a risk reward measurement. Some have more risk, others, other, other, others have a higher reward with less risk. It's just, it's all about, you know, what's best for you and your body and like what helps you get through the day better without risking too much or falling down the fucking, the slippery slope of addiction.

• 1:44:13Speaker 01

  Like in our country, it's, uh, you know, praised to be skinny. So like Ozempic is this gigantic drug, Monjaro.

• 1:44:20Danny Jones?

  God, that's so crazy.

• 1:44:21Speaker 01

  Is a monster drug and.

• 1:44:24Danny Jones?

  Isn't it funny how you can fucking tell who's on Ozempic?

• 1:44:27Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:44:27Danny Jones?

  You can just like see them. You're like, oh, that's Ozempic.

• 1:44:29Speaker 01

  The trade off is, because they look like a melted candle.

• 1:44:31Danny Jones?

  They look like a melted candle. Yeah.

• 1:44:33Speaker 01

  The trade off is that you don't enjoy anything anymore, you know? So while like, uh, so micro, so I actually think the GLP one drugs are great. But I think they're great and so does Mark too. We've talked about this a lot. We think they're great in micro doses. I think the, the doses that people use to go from being fat to being skinny. It's just, it's like, it's too much and it's too much of a change and there's not enough of a, um, there's not enough of yourself in it, but if you use it in smaller doses, like one milligram a week, say.

• 1:45:05Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:45:06Speaker 01

  And you, and you, instead of 2.4, right? You use like half the dose, even less, even like a quarter of the dose. Uh, when you use it in smaller doses, I feel like you have to put in some work also. And I feel like it's just a, you don't get any of the side effects. You know what I mean? There's, there's better, I think there's, I think when, as we learn more about these GLP one drugs, we'll see people, uh, microdosing them more often than using them in the full. Sense and they're way cheaper that way, too.

• 1:45:34Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it's just crazy to see drugs like this like come on the scene and just explode and change everything.

• 1:45:39Speaker 01

  And if you look at it, they, you know, big pharma charges like sixteen hundred dollars a month to for, you know, something like Ozempic or Monjaro.

• 1:45:48Danny Jones?

  Is that really what it costs?

• 1:45:49Speaker 01

  It's it's anywhere between like nine hundred and sixteen hundred dollars a month. And the compounding pharmacy, like Empower Pharmacy, for example, you can get that for like a hundred bucks a month. So it's like, you gotta go to a doctor and tell your doctor, like, instead of ask your doctor if this drug's right for you, ask your doctor if they can use a compounding pharmacy, because almost any drug that's approved by the FDA can be compounded. Like, they can make anything. So if you want your drugs cheaper and you're more knowledgeable, I like, I used to be so against pharmaceuticals, like I made a movie called Prescription Thugs.

• 1:46:23Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:24Speaker 01

  But as I understand pharmaceuticals more and understand like how they can be used for good when they're used moderately and for the right things, like, I don't think anybody, like, when I just came here in the Uber, I had a guy told me his mother was on thirty seven medications before she died. I don't think that's cool. I don't think that's the way to use medicine. But when you use medicine in the right way, like if somebody microdosed a GLP one drug to lose fifty or sixty pounds, and that's gonna really improve their health, I think it's worth it, right? So like you said, what's the risk and the reward?

• 1:46:58Danny Jones?

  Yeah. You know, I also learned that recently that UV light kills cholesterol or lowers your cholesterol.

• 1:47:06Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:47:07Danny Jones?

  Yeah, like the more the more exposure your skin has to UV light, like during the day, like UV B light, I think specifically, it actually legitimately lowers cholesterol. I mean, I haven't seen.

• 1:47:16Speaker 01

  Did you learn that from Jack Cruz?

• 1:47:18Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I did.

• 1:47:19Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, he's incredible, huh?

• 1:47:21Danny Jones?

  Yeah, he's something.

• 1:47:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:47:23Danny Jones?

  He's definitely a super, super sharp dude.

• 1:47:26Speaker 01

  He's a little abrasive, seems.

• 1:47:28Danny Jones?

  A little bit. Well, he's from New York, so I think it comes with the territory. And I think also there's something to do with being a, I think something comes with people who are high level surgeons that are like doing crazy brain surgery or heart surgery on people, where your whole entire career, you are. At you are like the boss in the operating room and all these people are answering to you, taking orders from you and this is life or death situation. I think there's a psychological thing that happens to people where it's just like you have to be abrasive and there's like no room for bullshit or like trying to be nice, you know?

• 1:48:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, when he was pushing um Callie Means on like the vaccine stuff.

• 1:48:07Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:07Speaker 01

  It was just like hard to watch. It was like, oh, man.

• 1:48:09Danny Jones?

  It was hard to watch. He wasn't like, he was like.

• 1:48:12Speaker 01

  You were here.

• 1:48:13Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I was here. It was, it was rough. It was rough, you know, I think, and I think also.

• 1:48:18Speaker 01

  You know what, though? You changed my mind a lot on what it means to be in charge of something that big for this country. And when I thought about it, like, I think Callie Means, I think he means well, no pun intended. Um, I think his, you know, his sister has a lot of great, I think they both have a lot of great things to say, but when you think about like, they're the highest, like now his sister is like the highest person in the land.

• 1:48:41Danny Jones?

  Yeah, what is she at the head of now?

• 1:48:43Speaker 01

  She's never treated a patient, really.

• 1:48:45Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:48:45Speaker 01

  I mean, I guess she has in her, like, in the residency, but like, she never even made it through that. And it's like, maybe we should have somebody that's a little bit more.

• 1:48:53Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:54Speaker 01

  Invested.

• 1:48:55Danny Jones?

  Yeah, politics is a fucking dirty game, man. That's the problem with it. And, you know, I understand Jack's perspective.

• 1:49:02Speaker 01

  But then do you want Jack Cruz in charge of that?

• 1:49:04Danny Jones?

  I understand, like, I under, he doesn't want to be a part of it.

• 1:49:06Speaker 01

  No, I'm saying.

• 1:49:06Danny Jones?

  That's why I moved to El Salvador.

• 1:49:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:49:08Danny Jones?

  You know, I mean, that's, that's, that's the, like, the dichotomy there is you have, like, I understand Jack's perspective is he cares about patients, right? Like, his number one priority is his patients and people. But like, that's not how, that's not how fucking Hollywood, same thing. That's not how fucking Washington works, right?

• 1:49:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:49:26Danny Jones?

  Politics, like, you kind of, to get shit done, you gotta play the politics game. Unfortunately, that's how it is, you know, and I think.

• 1:49:34Speaker 01

  Well, all these people going crazy about seed oils. I'll tell you right now, seed oils are not the problem with America.

• 1:49:39Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:49:40Speaker 01

  They're not even a problem.

• 1:49:41Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:49:41Speaker 01

  Like, to, to make it a problem is stupid. And so all these people like, seed oils, ah, seed oils. It's like, that's not what's killing America.

• 1:49:48Danny Jones?

  Right. Food dies.

• 1:49:49Speaker 01

  Okay, let's get rid of all the seed oils. People are still gonna be fat.

• 1:49:52Danny Jones?

  I just saw, I just saw this fucking thing on Instagram the other day, how like RFK. They met with the CEO of Starbucks to like get rid of dyes in the drinks and get rid of like the high fructose stuff. And it's like, come on, man. Is Starbucks really the fucking bane of all the health problems in the United States?

• 1:50:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think there are ways to make things healthier and there are ways to make things better. And like, again, it goes to like education, you know, educating people on certain things like educating people that red meat isn't so bad for you and educating people on, you know, different diets and different ways of eating. You know, it's just, I think that we need more education in those areas rather than, you know, just trying to ban things like banning things doesn't make anything better usually.

• 1:50:36Danny Jones?

  Right. And then like, then there's like, how, what's the right way to educate somebody on this stuff, you know, like there was a Stanford surgeon, I forget what kind of surgeon, I think he was a maybe a heart surgeon. And this came from, this guy's like really good friends with Andrew Huberman. And I think this was on the, the podcast with Andrew Huberman, or no, I'm sorry, this was on a podcast with Jack RFK Junior and Rick Rubin, where he was saying, this dude said that this high level heart surgeon from Stanford, I believe, I might be getting that wrong, he might not be from Stanford. But anyways, he said that out of all of the medical literature and medical textbooks

• 1:51:17Danny Jones?

  that are available today in all the universities, he said that more than 50% of it is wrong or outdated from new research that's come out and proved that's like, it's not correct.

• 1:51:32Speaker 01

  I've heard John Ionitis, who is from Stanford, he's a professor from Stanford, and he basically says, if it was up to me, I would take all of the nutritional research that has been done in this country and I would throw it in the garbage. Because he's like, that's how much value it has, you know, I think that might be a little bit overboard. I think we, we do know certain things.

• 1:51:59Speaker 01

  But like at the same time, like even if you look at what my brother Mark is doing, he's telling people like, hey, man, maybe it's okay to eat sugar.

• 1:52:08Danny Jones?

  Oh, the sugar diet.

• 1:52:09Speaker 01

  In the form of fruit. Did you guys discuss that?

• 1:52:11Danny Jones?

  We didn't. Yeah, I don't think we talked about that when he was in here, but I just saw that, uh, I saw my friend Nick Norwitz.

• 1:52:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know Nick. Nick's great. Yeah.

• 1:52:19Danny Jones?

  Yeah, he's awesome. He, uh, he made a video about it. And he was like, it's not as bad as people think it is. It's like,

• 1:52:24Speaker 01

  Well, I recently, I like, recently I just went through some, you know, just some health issues with pain again. And because I was going through all this pain, I wasn't lifting. Um, I wasn't really eating great. I wasn't eating bad. I was doing like a, still doing like a carnivore diet, but I would, I would just eat way too many calories. And so I, my weight got up to about 234 pounds. And normally I weigh about 190. Today, I think I weighed 204, 203, something like that. But the way I lost all that weight was fruit and fruit smoothies every day, like just, yeah. Yeah, just with sugar. And so,

• 1:53:00Danny Jones?

  So what is the idea behind that?

• 1:53:01Speaker 01

  Podcast and talked about it and everybody hates you for it. Like, you're like, listen, don't hate me. I'm just delivering a message. Eventually I'm going to start losing muscle. But I'm also on testosterone. I'm also lifting, you know, so it's like, I just wanted to drop a bunch of weight fast. So I basically did that every day. And then, three or four times a week at night, I would have a meal of maybe like rice and chicken. And that was it. And so it was like, and I would, I would actually drink three or four fruit smoothies in a day. I'd make them myself at home. I'd just buy a bunch of different juices and a bunch of frozen fruit and I blend them up, cool, drink a smoothie down, go about my day.

• 1:53:43Speaker 01

  I don't know enough about it like Mark does. Mark's like the sort of expert on it.

• 1:53:46Danny Jones?

  The idea behind the, the sugar diet is it's supposed to be, supposed to be dropping weight when you're doing it, right?

• 1:53:51Speaker 01

  So you're doing, you're basically like fasting, but you're getting glucose in. So you're not really fasting. And, um, I don't know. I, I don't even really could, could tell you like, uh, exactly like how and why it, it works. But what you're doing is like, Your body can't store, your body, it's really hard for your body to store carbohydrates as fat. So although, and Mark and I have been guilty of this, we even launched a war on carbs a long time ago. We would always tell people, don't eat carbs, you know, you don't need carbs. And, um, and I, I still don't think that you need them, but this way works also is what I'm saying.

• 1:54:33Speaker 01

  You know, so, um, the way basically I, I, I think the way that it works is you're still just lowering your calories. Like if you're just eating fruit and fruit smoothies, it's like, doesn't have that many, doesn't have that much calories in it.

• 1:54:46Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:54:46Speaker 01

  I'm not dumping sugar in there or anything else.

• 1:54:48Danny Jones?

  Yeah. I mean, I, I just started, uh, last week, I just decided that I'm gonna go back to like hardcore, low carb diet. Like, like almost keto and it is just, the thing about it is it's so hard. It's so difficult, especially when you have three fucking kids and your wife doesn't give a shit about any diet you're doing. She just like, there's stuff everywhere. There's pasta here. There's chips over here. There's like.

• 1:55:10Speaker 01

  I did.

• 1:55:11Danny Jones?

  Heat butter and jellies laying around my house. It's like.

• 1:55:13Speaker 01

  Uh, you know, I helped like, I helped like Sean Baker sort of spearhead the carnivore movement in the beginning, you know, like I, what happened was like, um, so I saw Sean Baker on Joe Rogan's podcast. And I had also done these diets where you just eat meat like back in 1992. I did it like when I, when I was at USC film school, I was also powerlifting and competing in powerlifting. And I met some other powerlifters that told me I was too fat and I needed to lose weight. And I said, well, I don't know how. And the guy just said, eat red meat, drink water. Okay. For how long? He's like, till you're not fat. So I did it.

• 1:55:52Speaker 01

  And I, you know, I went from maybe two forty-two down to like one ninety-eight and I would lift at one ninety-eight. So I'd lost like forty something pounds doing this. So I knew that it was effective, but I didn't really know it had any health benefits. Until I saw Dr. Sean Baker on Joe Rogan's podcast. I said, like, this guy's really on to something. I used to do that a long time ago, but I stopped doing it, blah, blah, blah. So I did the carnivore diet for the past like seven years and I've gone off of it here and there. I'd go like off and on and try different things, but I think a carnivore diet is a great base. But what I've, what I learned shortly after being on the carnivore diet for, I think I was on the carnivore diet for

• 1:56:34Speaker 01

  two or three months and then Mark and I went on Joe Rogan's podcast and we talked about eating a diet of meat and fruit. And I don't know if it went over everybody's head or whatever, but like basically,

• 1:56:46Speaker 01

  you know, we've had people like Dr. Paul Saladino come to our gym and he was having some problems with his hormones. And so Mark and I told him to eat fruit, like, hey, try to eat fruit. He was totally against it. But now he's all for it because he's went and researched it. And I think that kind of is the best diet, a diet of like meat, fruit and vegetables. You really can't go wrong. I don't think you need to cut out all your carbohydrates. But you need to find better carbohydrates.

• 1:57:13Danny Jones?

  Better carbohydrates. Get them from your fruits and vegetables.

• 1:57:15Speaker 01

  I think they're in your fruits and vegetables. Yeah.

• 1:57:17Danny Jones?

  Yeah. I mean, that's the problem.

• 1:57:19Speaker 01

  You might have to cut some starches, starches tend to hold weight on people.

• 1:57:23Danny Jones?

  Is Paul Saladino, is he the dude who made the video about how he goes on when he travels? He brings a backpack full of coconuts with him?

• 1:57:30Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Yeah. He's made all sorts of crazy, you know?

• 1:57:33Danny Jones?

  Like, how are you cracking the coconut on the plane? Do you have a knife? Are you allowed to bring a fucking giant machete with you on the plane and chop those coconuts in half? Like, what are you doing?

• 1:57:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm not really sure.

• 1:57:43Danny Jones?

  Seems a little unreasonable.

• 1:57:44Speaker 01

  Paul's a good dude. He like, he's a guy that was, you know, sort of at that, the head of the carnivore movement. He even wrote a book called The Carnivore Code and then completely changed his mind and added a bunch of fruit to the diet. But see, I understand that. I think that's the way people should evolve.

• 1:58:00Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:00Speaker 01

  But I also really credit Dr. Sean Baker for sticking to his guns.

• 1:58:04Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:05Speaker 01

  So like the carnivore diet is, it's fucking awesome. It works. It's effective.

• 1:58:09Danny Jones?

  You can tell the difference. The way you feel, your energy, your

• 1:58:13Speaker 01

  It's just hard.

• 1:58:13Danny Jones?

  Met mental clarity. Yeah, that's the thing. It's just, it requires so much fucking discipline. It's crazy.

• 1:58:18Speaker 01

  You gotta, if you have a family, like I've, I live with my girlfriend and like, she doesn't want to eat meat every and she doesn't have to. She's in great shape.

• 1:58:27Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:27Speaker 01

  Like, what am I going to tell her to eat meat? Like, hey?

• 1:58:30Danny Jones?

  It takes a lot, man.

• 1:58:31Speaker 01

  She doesn't need to get in better shape. So it's like, what am I going to tell her? So it's like, I don't know. I think. If it works for you and you're single and you can just do it, I think I think it's great. But I also don't think you need to do it.

• 1:58:43Danny Jones?

  Even um Dom D'Agostino, when he was in here, he was like, yeah, he's like, me and my wife will be driving and she'll, we'll go to McDonald's for lunch and she'll eat McDonald's and I'll just, you know, I'll bring my can of sardines and I'll throw my sardines on some lettuce on the salad and I'll have my sardines while she eats her Big Mac.

• 1:58:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, Dom's insane.

• 1:58:58Danny Jones?

  Oh, my God.

• 1:58:58Speaker 01

  That's what you realize in this world is there's a couple of people that are just insane. And they'll do whatever it takes.

• 1:59:04Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:05Speaker 01

  You know?

• 1:59:06Danny Jones?

  He's a, he's a beast, man.

• 1:59:08Speaker 01

  He's awesome. He's a great, great human being.

• 1:59:10Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:11Speaker 01

  The, the research that, and again, like, dude, I've gone into like deep ketosis where I've been in ketosis for like three months straight and I felt phenomenal doing that, but it's just hard. It's hard to stay there, you know?

• 1:59:22Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Did you, did you measure it with like the uh, with the thing you blow into?

• 1:59:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, I used to do the prick my finger all the time. So Dom D'Agostino was, when I, okay, so in 2016,

• 1:59:35Speaker 01

  I was pretty fat and out of shape, basically through, like, because of coming out of rehab and all the addiction and everything. And I was coming out of uh, I, I basically, it was the day that Trump got elected the first time, 2016. I was actually walking to go vote and when I was walking to go vote, I had to stop and like, I couldn't, I couldn't breathe. I felt like I was like maybe having a heart attack or something. Like, man, I'm really out of shape. Like something, something's wrong here. And so I don't know what happened. I basically, I sat down for 10 minutes. I got up, I felt fine, you know, after that. And I went home and I'm like, I really need to make a change. And the first thing I could think of is like, I need to go back to like keto. Like back when I used to do this meat diet, you know?

• 2:00:19Speaker 01

  And um, I need to go back to keto. So I went back and I started reading some keto information. I found uh, Dom D'Agostino's information and I called him because like, you know, I make films. So it's like kind of easy to pick up the phone.

• 2:00:31Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:31Speaker 01

  Call somebody and he's like, of course I've seen your movie. I love it. You know, like, let's talk, you know, whatever. So me and Dom started talking and I was like, can you be in ketosis for more than a week? And he like laughs at me and says, I've been in ketosis for seven years, you know? And he basically tells me that and I'm like, oh, this is interesting. So then I took off on like, you know, the keto thing. So people think that I jump from thing to thing to thing, but I kind of do because like,

• 2:00:55Danny Jones?

  Experiment with stuff.

• 2:00:56Speaker 01

  I'm kind of learning each time.

• 2:00:57Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:00:58Speaker 01

  You know, so like I, I don't know, people in the comments, but this guy jumps to this, to this, this is like, well, you're trying to like, learn how to utilize things. And I think, to be honest, even going back to like the sugar diet, what the sugar diet has taught me is like, hey, don't eat, you don't need so much fat. Like I've been eating literally zero fat every day, zero. And,

• 2:01:20Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 2:01:21Speaker 01

  And I'm plowing through it and it's, and I feel fine. So when I go back to a regular diet, which will probably be in another couple of weeks, my diet will be much lower fat, which will allow me to burn more fat. You like basically use more body fat instead of burning the fat that I eat.

• 2:01:38Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:01:39Speaker 01

  You know, so I'm, I don't know, I, I think like each, each stop you make along the way, you learn something. Like I learned something with keto.

• 2:01:46Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:01:46Speaker 01

  I learned, when I, when I did keto, I did that to a point where like I did it to the max. I was testing my blood every day.

• 2:01:54Danny Jones?

  Yep.

• 2:01:55Speaker 01

  And I got skinny fat. So I did keto and then I went carnivore. And when I went carnivore, I started like lifting a little bit harder. I felt a little bit better. And then I started getting like really muscular and jacked and like the best shape I was ever in, in my life was probably 2018, 2020 doing, you know, just eating red meat.

• 2:02:15Danny Jones?

  Right. My problem with the keto was, uh, the last time I went super keto, uh, I got my blood work done after and my cholesterol was like through the, it was off the charts. It was like in like two, it was like 250 or something crazy. And my primary care doctor was like, you need to stop what you're doing. You need to go on statins. You need to fricking get your, uh, The the X-ray on your coronary arteries, make sure you don't have any plaque and all this stuff. And like, I called Dom, I texted Dom, I sent Dom my blood work. I'm like, dude, am I gonna die? He's like, no, my cholesterol is the same.

• 2:02:48Speaker 01

  And that's the thing is like, I have read, because I always just try to find the truth. I try to drill down into the truth.

• 2:02:53Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:54Speaker 01

  And I have tried everything to find, like, what is it with cholesterol? Do we need to worry about it? Or do we not need to worry about it? And I still can't figure out whether or not we need to worry about it. You know, I I look at guys like Lane Norton's a good friend of mine. He lives right here in Tampa. And I he, do you know him?

• 2:03:11Danny Jones?

  I know who he is.

• 2:03:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, Lane, a lot of people hate Lane Norton because he's kind of a dick to people. But I like that. You know, because he's so, he's so blunt and he's so honest.

• 2:03:20Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:20Speaker 01

  And but Mark and I have known Lane for years, and he's been a great source of information to me. He'll tell you, hey, man, your cholesterol matters. There's a a linear line between like, people dying and their cholesterol being high.

• 2:03:33Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:33Speaker 01

  And then you'll talk to other people to say, don't worry about it. Doesn't matter. You're a carnivore. You're a what they call lean mass hyper responder.

• 2:03:40Danny Jones?

  That's what I am.

• 2:03:41Speaker 01

  That's all here like Nick Norwitz talk about, right? But I also never heard Nick Norwood say, don't worry at all about your cholesterol.

• 2:03:48Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:03:49Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? So I'm like, there's somewhere in between.

• 2:03:51Danny Jones?

  It's always, the truth's always in the middle.

• 2:03:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's in the middle somewhere. You should kind of worry about it.

• 2:03:55Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm. The the problem is that especially the problem with the internet is that you'll just find people that like to cling on to certain ideas and they treat it as like it's their religion.

• 2:04:04Speaker 01

  And it's easy to say, go over here, eat just fruit and fruit juice and do that, or go eat just meat, do that. The nuance is hard and the nuance doesn't sell. The fact of the matter is the sugar diet's not the best, the carnivore diet's not the best, the keto diet's not the best. To utilize each one of these things as tools in your toolbox. And when you can understand each diet and how to utilize it, I think that's what's really important. And if you, I mean, look, you could do sugar fasting one day, which they they call it sugar fasting, if you just, you could do that one day just to get your calories down for the week.

• 2:04:39Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:04:40Speaker 01

  You know, where instead of like, Look at it this way, you're doing a fast, but instead of a fast, you're drinking three smoothies a day. I can do that, that's easy. But what's fasting? Fasting sucks. But sugar fasting doesn't suck. So let's do something that doesn't suck and can get, you know, pretty much the same result.

• 2:04:58Danny Jones?

  Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and it's, it's good to experiment with shit too, like even just like straight up water fasts. Have you done like a long-term fast with no food?

• 2:05:07Speaker 01

  I've, I've done those and then in talking to Mark, he's like, I don't think I'll ever do those again. It doesn't seem to make sense. He's like, I think you get the same, you know, you might not get the same health benefits. You know, people always want to talk about autophagy. Well, you get autophagy when you lift weights. You know, you get autophagy when you exercise.

• 2:05:25Danny Jones?

  What does autophagy mean?

• 2:05:26Speaker 01

  It means that your old cells dies, your old cells die.

• 2:05:29Danny Jones?

  Regenerating new cells, yeah.

• 2:05:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, and so that's all it really means. And like, that happens when you lift, it happens when you exercise, you know, do cardio. So why worry so much about this autophagy that's, you know, comes about through not eating because like not eating sucks? So, but I do believe also in, if you want to lose weight, you gotta be hungry a little bit. You can't be, you can't have a full belly all the time and still lose weight or get ripped.

• 2:05:56Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:05:57Speaker 01

  It's not gonna happen.

• 2:05:58Danny Jones?

  Yeah, you gotta live to, you can't live to eat, you gotta eat to live. And I did a, I did a seven day fast once and I think it was a, I forget what I was, I was, I was drinking this like water concoction that was like, it was like, it was like lemonade mixed with syrup in there, maple syrup.

• 2:06:15Speaker 01

  And cayenne pepper?

• 2:06:16Danny Jones?

  And cayenne pepper, yeah. I guess it's like the Beyonce, I don't know what it was. It wasn't labeled the Beyonce thing, but I guess Beyonce has like a diet where she does that same thing.

• 2:06:23Speaker 01

  I forget what that's called, but it's some sort of fast.

• 2:06:25Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I learned, I learned about it from Kelly Slater on Rogan's podcast. Kelly Slater was telling him all about how he did this and it like, got rid of this stuff called mucoid plaque that builds up in your intestines. And he's like, after seven days, you'll start shitting out this like black stuff. Well, I guess after.

• 2:06:40Speaker 01

  And you're like, I really want to do that?

• 2:06:41Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I was like, yeah, I was like, cause the way he was explaining it was that like over your lifespan, when you eat, you know, you're constantly eating shit all the time or whatever, whatever you're eating, you. Your intestines build up this layer or this liner of like plaque to where now you can't absorb all the nutrients from all of your food as much anymore.

• 2:07:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:07:01Danny Jones?

  So he's like, when you do this, this seven day fast with this lemonade syrup stuff, eventually that plaque will like strip its way out of your intestines, like resetting your digestive system. And that's the reason I did it. That's the reason I tried it. And on day five, I remember I stopped, I started the fast on Monday and on Friday, I was able to go to the gym and do like three times as many pull ups as I can normally do with like no fucking fatigue. I was, I was, I did like 50 pull ups and I felt great. And I also was able to play full court basketball, a full game of full court basketball with like no cramps, no, I mean typically, you know, I'll start like getting the side cramp.

• 2:07:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:07:38Danny Jones?

  When I'm doing that and I'll start to get really fatigued to have to like stop and take a breather that none of that was happening to me. I felt like superhuman on day five of that fast. I felt like phenomenal.

• 2:07:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, I've had experiences like that on carnivore where like the strongest I've ever been in my entire life was like recently in my 50s at on a carnivore diet, which is insane. And like people like, well, how do you deadlift? You know, I was doing, um, I was doing like trap bar deadlifts. Like I'm, I'm just good at them for whatever reason. I'm not good at regular deadlifts.

• 2:08:07Danny Jones?

  The hex bar?

• 2:08:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, I go up to, I'm going up to like 700 pounds.

• 2:08:11Danny Jones?

  I like the hex bar the best.

• 2:08:13Speaker 01

  And I was, I go up to like 700 pounds on that.

• 2:08:15Danny Jones?

  Jesus Christ.

• 2:08:16Speaker 01

  But here's the thing is I would do it with no carbs and people would be like, how are you doing that with no carbs? I'm like, I just don't think it takes carbs to do like a one rep, you know, max. Or I do like sets of three or something like that. And, um, and so that it's like, you know, I don't know. It's, it's, I think Mark and I, I think genetics, I was talking about that before. Genetics plays the biggest role in anything. I watched my, my younger brother, Mark bench press 315 pounds in ninth grade. You know, he wasn't on steroids. Like he's 14, 15 years old when he's doing this, you know, so when.

• 2:08:53Speaker 01

  When I tell people like, hey, man, you have to have genetics, I wouldn't be good at squat. I have two fake hips. And when I, with two fake hips, I, you know, I, I don't do it anymore just because like the pain got so bad. And it's probably not a great idea to be putting 500, 600 pounds on my back. But I was, I would be squatting with like, working out with like 500 pounds with fake hips, right? So like, that's fucking insane. That shouldn't happen. But that's genetics. That's something genetic in my code. Where I'm short and squatty and I can get under the bar and I can do that. And other people will never do that, but I'll never ride a surfboard, you know?

• 2:09:33Speaker 01

  And seriously, like, I'm not built for that. And I think that, uh, that's another thing people need to realize in like, building their physique or doing whatever they want to do is like, go to your strength, go to like what you're, what you're good at and utilize that like, nobody cares how much you deadlift or squat really. It's again, it's only, only a dude will care. No girl ever cares. It's like, don't worry about that stuff. Worry about like, what, what are your strengths and play to your strengths, you know?

• 2:10:01Danny Jones?

  Yeah, totally. And, you know, being able to be, have that movement too, like the most jacked dudes, they walk around like, you know, like that, uh, that kangaroo, have you seen the jacked kangaroo videos?

• 2:10:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:10:13Danny Jones?

  Like the, like you look like the fucking kangaroo where you have like no movement. You see these dudes that can't turn their neck.

• 2:10:18Speaker 01

  Yeah. My brother and I went to visit Liver King. And, um, we, we went down to his ranch and hung out with him. He's, he's great. He's cool.

• 2:10:28Speaker 01

  I don't agree with what, you know, what he did, but basically like,

• 2:10:30Danny Jones?

  Was lying about not doing steroids?

• 2:10:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. We, we thought it was stupid even at the time. Um, for some reason, I think Joe Rogan thought we believed him, but we were just kind of like, I wasn't even involved in the interview. Um, we were just kind of going, you know, it's like when somebody tells you like, yeah, I don't take steroids. What are you gonna do? Tell them like, yeah, you do, and prove it. So,

• 2:10:50Speaker 01

  Mark asked them all the questions. You never took SARMs, you never took, you know, HGH.

• 2:10:55Danny Jones?

  Was this before he came out?

• 2:10:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. And he was, Mark was one of the first people to interview him. I think Logan Paul might have interviewed him first. And then like Mark and I did. Um, oh, the, the point of it was when we went to see the Liver King, um, Mark realized right away, like this guy didn't have good movement. Like he's all like, he looks great, but he can't, he can't move, you know?

• 2:11:17Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:11:17Speaker 01

  And, um, I don't know. I think like, that's important to look at, you know, like Liver King looks amazing. He's all jacked. It's like, but if you can't move, what's the purpose of it, you know?

• 2:11:28Danny Jones?

  And he was on a whole laundry list of stuff like windstroll, HGH. He was, I think he was spending like $25,000 a month on all the shit he was taking.

• 2:11:37Speaker 01

  Well, a lot of it was stupid because I think HGH, human growth hormone, I don't think is very effective for muscle building at all. You know, I don't think it's really effective for, uh, maybe it's going to help your joints and things like that. But it seems like to me, I'll give you an example, like I work at this, uh, compounding pharmacy and I talked to some of the, the higher ups there and they basically just say like, yeah, it's kind of a waste of money, you know, like, and they have plenty of money to be able to do it, but they, they don't, they're not doing it because it's like, ah, it's not even, not really worth it. And when you see people that have access to it, can get it real cheap, you know, still not using it.

• 2:12:15Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:12:15Speaker 01

  You're like, it's probably not worth it. So I, that's, that's where.

• 2:12:19Danny Jones?

  Don't a lot of like NFL players and, and NBA players use HGH or, or growth, human growth hormone?

• 2:12:24Speaker 01

  Like my brother, I don't know where he got it from, but he gave me a ton of growth hormone. And like, I haven't used it either and I have, it's free, but I haven't, I haven't used it because I, I don't think it's going to do anything.

• 2:12:34Danny Jones?

  Have you ever used it?

• 2:12:36Speaker 01

  I've, I've tried it. Yeah. I've, I did it for like a couple of weeks. And, um, I think it can mess up your insulin resistance, like your insulin sensitivity. So I don't, I don't know. I don't, I, maybe in a giant stack with insulin and everything else, it would be worth it. Maybe you might talk to a bodybuilding coach or something, but like a bodybuilding coach, you gotta remember is not a health coach.

• 2:12:57Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:12:58Speaker 01

  So I'm trying to be healthy. I'm not trying to be like as jacked as I can.

• 2:13:01Danny Jones?

  Right. Yeah. You want to live long, right? You gotta, you gotta balance like. Living optimally and feeling your best and performing your best, but like also you don't want to die early. That's never good.

• 2:13:12Speaker 01

  No, and like people need to realize like, so if you look at my brother Mark, he's probably about 5% body fat right now. He's in crazy shape. That looks great, you know? Um, it's great to be ripped on Instagram, but the, a healthy human being is about 12% body fat. And I think that's what men need to realize is like 12% is the goal. It's not 5%, it's 12%. And if you can get to 12%, most people are, are gonna be above that. But if you can get to 12%, you're, that's right where you want to be.

• 2:13:44Danny Jones?

  And?

• 2:13:45Speaker 01

  And that's the preferred, if you're a single guy out there, that's the, what women prefer. They prefer 12%.

• 2:13:51Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:13:52Speaker 01

  Over any other body fat, they say, you know?

• 2:13:55Danny Jones?

  What, what specifically does EPO do?

• 2:13:58Speaker 01

  It gives your bo-, it basically gives your blood more oxygen. So you can go, so like if you can go-

• 2:14:05Danny Jones?

  So it's endurance?

• 2:14:06Speaker 01

  Yeah. There's a SARM out there. It's not necessarily a SARM, but it's in the group of SARMs. It's a GW501, something like that, eh? It's called cardarine. If you look up cardarine, um, C-A-R-D-A-R-I-N-E. Cardarine is a, um, I don't want to call it a SARM because it's not officially a SARM, but it's sort of in that group. It's something you could take that will really, really enhance your output on cardio. So like if you're having a hard time with your cardio, you were doing jujitsu or you were surfing or whatever, you have a hard time with cardio. Um, cardarine can really, really help. Uh, the diff, the problem I guess is if you look at, um, videos from like Derek from More Plates More Dates.

• 2:14:50Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:14:50Speaker 01

  He sort of shows how in these, um, you know, in these studies where it caused cancer in rats. But then you look at the studies and the studies are like, well, they did feed a lot of this to the rat. It's like no human would ever take that amount.

• 2:15:06Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:15:06Speaker 01

  That kind of thing. So it's something that's like- Like again, I'm not recommending anything. I'm just saying like that shit works. It works really, really well. Um, I, I would imagine it's banned from competition because uh, it is very effective, you know? Um, the one thing I think maybe Mark talked about this on your podcast as well is like, it's hard for me to believe that kratom is not banned from the Olympics. It's not banned from any major sports entity at all. It is so performance enhancing.

• 2:15:40Danny Jones?

  Like really kratom is?

• 2:15:41Speaker 01

  Oh my God. Yeah. Yeah. I take like, I would load up on kratom before I go work out. And my lifts would be through the roof because it just gives me energy. It gave me, um, it took away all the pain. So like when you're, you know, if you're, um, if you're playing football and every play, you gotta get down in the three point stance. And it hurts to get in a three point stance. Well, imagine if I take that pain away. It's gonna be easy. You're gonna feel so, it might have consequences later. You might lift too heavy, you know, you might, whatever. But like to me, it's, it is the performance enhancing drug that is just so underrated and underutilized.

• 2:16:20Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it's cra- it is, it is insane how like we want to come up with these rules to ban these, the performance enhancing drugs for things like these entertaining sports, like for a guy to hit a ball with a stick. Or, you know, to play football, like what, like, like what are you doing? Like, why are you trying to do that? If it's gonna make these people healthy and it's gonna make your fucking, it's gonna make this sport and this business that at the end of the day, all that matters to them is their advertising dollars. Like what are you trying to do here?

• 2:16:46Speaker 01

  Pretty soon we'll have the enhanced games and yeah.

• 2:16:48Danny Jones?

  Oh, I heard about this.

• 2:16:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's uh, it's interesting. So I've actually been helping the enhanced games. Cause I always have the inside scoop on, you know, different performance enhancing drugs and like who knows what and, who does what? And so I got a couple of phone calls from people that work for the enhanced game saying, hey, we, we'd like, you know, can we pick your brain? Um, who's this guy in your movie? Who's that guy in your movie? So I told them all that, but I'm like, you know what? You want an expert? You need to talk to vigorous Steve. If you're people online or anybody watching. Wants to know about steroids. You have to look up vigorous Steve. He knows. Vigorous Steve. Oh, yeah. He'd be great on your podcast too. He knows so much about performance enhancement. It's incre- it's it's incredible.

• 2:17:31Speaker 01

  And um, he's from Canada. He's a very fast talker. Yeah, he's jacked. He's just, he's just awesome. He just knows everything. So like. How old is he? Uh, he's probably forty. Oh, wow. You know, so I I basically, you know, said to the enhanced games, like, you don't want to talk to me. You want to talk to him. Right. And then there's a couple other people I've sent over to them too, like Patrick Arnold is a friend of mine. Oh, really? Patrick Arnold's the guy that designed. I'm like, he designed drugs. Arnold's son? No, no, Patrick Arnold. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, yes, yes. Arnold's son is Patrick. Arnold's son is Patrick Schwarzenegger. Yeah, sorry, my brain. So Patrick Arnold is um, the guy who created the cream in the clear for Balco. I remember I talked to him on the phone once.

• 2:18:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, he made the drugs. Dom, he helped Dom, I think. Oh, yeah. Yeah, you helped Dom with the ketones. Yes, yes. Yeah, Patrick Arnold's great. So it's like, I sent him, I'm like, hey, enhance games, like, if you really want to do this right, you need to talk to these top people in the performance enhancing uh, drug field. There's another guy named Alex Keike, K I K E L. Um, he's just a bodybuilding coach. He knows everything about every peptide, like any substance you could possibly put in your body. He knows what it does and why, you know, why people would use it. And so when you get into these enhanced games, my, my gripe with the enhanced games is like, oh, you can take anything a doctor can give you? And I'm like, well, it needs to be different than that because like, what about trenbolone?

• 2:19:00Speaker 01

  You know, what about, what about these drugs that people are going to use to enhance their performance? That aren't, you know, aren't doctor certified, you know, like, um, I don't know. In my opinion, if you're gonna have, if you're gonna do the enhanced games and you're gonna half ass it by having everybody be safe, then it's like, it's not, is it really the enhanced games? You know, like, we want to see like the all drug Olympics and Saturday Night Live where the guy rips his arms off. That's in. Yeah, I remember that. Yeah, yeah. I mean, we don't want to see that necessarily, but. If you're gonna have the enhanced games, it should be. We should know, like, hey, man, these guys were pretty much allowed to do whatever they want. As long as they maybe.

• 2:19:44Speaker 01

  Got a physical beforehand and came in healthy.

• 2:19:46Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:19:47Speaker 01

  You know? Because why can't a guy, like, look, if you can snort a line and run faster.

• 2:19:52Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:19:54Speaker 01

  And your vitals are in check.

• 2:19:56Danny Jones?

  Should be able to do that.

• 2:19:57Speaker 01

  Why not?

• 2:19:57Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:19:58Speaker 01

  Maybe your vitals won't be in check when you do that. I don't know.

• 2:20:00Danny Jones?

  Where are you gonna draw the line?

• 2:20:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, there's gotta be a line somewhere, obviously. And obviously, like, advertisers are not gonna go for. And this guy just snorted a line before he came up for the. To the line to run, but they're like, like I said, I'm probably being like a little exaggerating, but like.

• 2:20:17Danny Jones?

  Funny, though.

• 2:20:18Speaker 01

  There's. Something to, like, if you're gonna have the enhanced games. Make it enhanced.

• 2:20:23Danny Jones?

  Yeah, and it doesn't, it doesn't just enhance athletics, you know, I think they also enhance creativity.

• 2:20:29Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:20:30Danny Jones?

  Like, some of the best music is done on people with, you know, people on drugs. To make, make the best music, you know, there's a lot of bands and there's a lot of musicians who, once they get sober, they, they're not creating the same kind of art.

• 2:20:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, even testosterone, though, has such a tie in to the brain and depression. That people that take testosterone. Um, usually are less depressed, you know, um, have a better, better outlook on life. Uh, are more motivated. Um, are actually nicer. So people think, like, people take testosterone and turn into assholes. It's kind of the opposite. They usually turn. They usually become nicer and more generous. And there's a lot of things that are, you know. That testosterone can do that can really help. Society, you know? Um, where people aren't such bad guys, you know, and.

• 2:21:17Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:21:18Speaker 01

  When your testosterone is low, that's. That's the people that are, uh. That are, you know.

• 2:21:25Speaker 01

  It's not that, that if your testosterone is low, you're gonna be a troublemaker or an asshole. But you, your chances of being depressed are a lot higher. And if you're depressed, you're not gonna be very nice all the time, you know?

• 2:21:35Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Yeah, I've always been interested in trying it again. I tried it once.

• 2:21:39Speaker 01

  Testosterone?

• 2:21:40Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I tried it.

• 2:21:41Speaker 01

  How old are you?

• 2:21:41Danny Jones?

  I'm thirty seven.

• 2:21:43Speaker 01

  Thirty seven, yeah, so. You're right about the age where, like, you should go get it checked, and if it's not.

• 2:21:47Danny Jones?

  I get it checked all the time. I get, I get my blood work done at least twice a year.

• 2:21:50Speaker 01

  And what's your testosterone at?

• 2:21:51Danny Jones?

  Uh, it was submitted, goes, it bounces between, the highest it's ever been is like eight fifty, and the lowest it's ever been is like. Six hundred, I think.

• 2:22:00Speaker 01

  Yeah. So yours is pretty good. And I'm like, I'm saying like, I'm not a doctor. I'm not going to tell you to go on it or not.

• 2:22:05Danny Jones?

  Well, I did it for three months.

• 2:22:06Speaker 01

  My, my recommendation is I think it's great.

• 2:22:09Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:22:09Speaker 01

  You know what I mean?

• 2:22:10Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:22:10Speaker 01

  And I, I feel great when I'm on it. So it's like, that's just my recommendation. It's like, you're gonna, you're gonna have to pull that card at some point.

• 2:22:19Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:22:20Speaker 01

  So I'm like, why not just pull it now?

• 2:22:22Danny Jones?

  Totally.

• 2:22:22Speaker 01

  That's my thought, but I'm not telling you to do it.

• 2:22:24Danny Jones?

  No, I, I did it for three months and I, I tried it. I, I was like, you know, I want to see, I hear all these people talking about it. And I'm like, I, you know, despite the, I think what really got me interested in it was listening to Derek, More Plates More Dates. And I was like, God, I gotta fucking try this. This sounds amazing.

• 2:22:37Speaker 01

  At the same time, it's not the panacea of like,

• 2:22:40Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:22:40Speaker 01

  all of a sudden, the whole world opens up to you and things are great.

• 2:22:43Danny Jones?

  That's what I thought it was gonna be.

• 2:22:44Speaker 01

  Things just are a little bit easier.

• 2:22:46Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I didn't feel that. I didn't feel any difference. If anything, I felt, I felt more tired.

• 2:22:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:22:51Danny Jones?

  I felt more tired, um.

• 2:22:53Speaker 01

  But that's the beauty of it, right? Cause it's your choice and just come off of it again.

• 2:22:57Danny Jones?

  Yeah. And I did, I just can't, I just, I just stopped it. And I know I never noticed any kind of difference. Like, you know, I felt probably better once I got off.

• 2:23:04Speaker 01

  There's some new drugs that are gonna be a little bit better because even though, you know, I, I still hate needles, no matter how much,

• 2:23:11Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:23:11Speaker 01

  you know, whatever. So like, there's some, uh, new, uh, oral testosterone coming down the pipeline. That's supposed to be pretty good.

• 2:23:18Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 2:23:18Speaker 01

  Yeah. So like, I just think it'll help compliance, you know, because it's hard to, testosterone's like, it's a pain in the ass. You gotta keep, you gotta keep injecting it.

• 2:23:27Danny Jones?

  But that's the safest way to do it though, right?

• 2:23:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:23:30Danny Jones?

  The injecting, cause you're injecting the exact same thing. Cause people mess around with like the SARMs and stuff and like antagonizing the, the, uh.

• 2:23:35Speaker 01

  You know what's crazy? When I was in the best shape of my life, I was on a bunch of SARMs that I got from my friend, Dr. Tony Huge, who's not a doctor.

• 2:23:43Danny Jones?

  I know who that guy is.

• 2:23:44Speaker 01

  Yeah. So Dr. Tony Huge gave me like, here, here's a box of SARMs. And like, and I'm like, what am I doing? And he's like, ah, take, you know, take one of these, take one of these, take one of these. And I, I did it. And like, I was fucking jacked and shredded. And I don't know, man. Like, everybody's like, ah, SARMs are, they're garbage. And. Given my, I wasn't doing my blood work. I don't, it might have been in the gutter. I'm not really sure. Um, because then I, after that I had done SARMs. I did a SARM called RAD140 and it plummeted my testosterone down to 51.

• 2:24:17Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 2:24:18Speaker 01

  And then I got back on TRT and I've stayed on TRT since and not messed with SARMs. But I have to say the best shape I ever was in was on SARMs and not on anabolic steroids.

• 2:24:30Danny Jones?

  Interesting.

• 2:24:31Speaker 01

  And that's just my own anecdotal.

• 2:24:33Danny Jones?

  I have a really good friend who, uh, I was trying to educate him about testosterone. And I was like, cause he was like, um, he went through this like couple year phase where he just was like, not interested in going out, not interested in doing any, any kind of like activities with anyone. He didn't, wasn't interested in chicks anymore. Didn't seem like he hadn't had a girlfriend in a couple of years. And I'm like, bro, you should, uh, you should get your blood work done. Figure out what your testosterone level is. He's also, he's fucking a huge stoner. He smokes weed all day, every day. And, uh, he got his blood work done and his testosterone was 50.

• 2:25:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:25:06Danny Jones?

  He's my age.

• 2:25:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, that can happen.

• 2:25:08Danny Jones?

  And he got a testosterone. Now he's like back to normal. Now he's like got a girlfriend. He's like motivated again and his life changed.

• 2:25:14Speaker 01

  Like when I, when my testosterone was that low, I felt just terrible. Like I couldn't do anything.

• 2:25:19Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:25:19Speaker 01

  Couldn't function, you know?

• 2:25:20Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I can't imagine what that must feel like for some people. But like, you know, I mean, and it's prescribed in Europe, I think for ADHD or ADD. It's prescribed for like a, like normal things in, uh.

• 2:25:32Speaker 01

  You know, what's interesting too is that they make it, they make it's kind of like you had to jump through hoops to get testosterone.

• 2:25:38Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:25:38Speaker 01

  So like I go to a telehealth clinic because it's easy.

• 2:25:41Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:25:42Speaker 01

  So I have to go to a doctor at like, for some reason, I've been on testosterone forever. Because I just moved to Texas, I have to go to a doctor and get a physical and send that physical to my telehealth person so that they can prescribe me testosterone.

• 2:25:59Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:26:00Speaker 01

  Which I've been on forever.

• 2:26:01Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:26:01Speaker 01

  It's like, why are you making it hard? You know? I think that's one of the problems with, uh, With the healthcare industry is they make it hard to do anything.

• 2:26:08Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:26:09Speaker 01

  Everything's impossible.

• 2:26:10Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:26:10Speaker 01

  You know, and it's like, um, if I want to get on a GLP one drug to drop a ton of weight.

• 2:26:15Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:26:15Speaker 01

  I don't have to get any blood work done. I don't get, but for testosterone, I need blood work. I need, it's like, I don't know why.

• 2:26:20Danny Jones?

  You want to be safe, but it's like they make it so difficult to do it the proper way, which sucks.

• 2:26:25Speaker 01

  They make it difficult because there is too much of a barrier to entry to most people because they just give up and they go, well, I don't.

• 2:26:32Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Yeah. And one of like the biggest fears with it is like, you know, is there any, is there any, um, truth to some of these facts that like it can increase your, your arterial plaque, or it can increase heart disease, or it can shorten your lifespan.

• 2:26:48Speaker 01

  There's really no evidence that it, at the levels of TRT.

• 2:26:52Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:26:52Speaker 01

  That it'll do anything negative.

• 2:26:54Danny Jones?

  Well, look at fucking, how old is Arnold? He was doing like.

• 2:26:58Speaker 01

  Eighty.

• 2:26:58Danny Jones?

  How, how much testosterone was he fucking doing in his teens and his early twenties? He was probably doing an insane amount. He's probably doing grams.

• 2:27:06Speaker 01

  Yeah. The drugs were different back then. They would take D ball.

• 2:27:09Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:27:10Speaker 01

  They would take a little bit. Again, though, go back to genetics. Arnold would still look awesome if he never took anything.

• 2:27:17Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:27:18Speaker 01

  Like he'd still look.

• 2:27:19Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:27:19Speaker 01

  He, I mean, he is a genetic freak.

• 2:27:22Danny Jones?

  Do you think he still takes it though now?

• 2:27:23Speaker 01

  I'm sure he's taking testosterone now still. Yeah.

• 2:27:27Danny Jones?

  Even at this age?

• 2:27:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:27:29Danny Jones?

  In his eighties, you think he still takes it? Just to play, just play a lower amount, just to like.

• 2:27:33Speaker 01

  I think he takes it. I know Stallone takes it.

• 2:27:34Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 2:27:35Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, I don't, I don't know for a fact, but I mean.

• 2:27:38Danny Jones?

  That's, you know, the fact that those guys are, have made it to their eighties.

• 2:27:42Speaker 01

  Yeah. I don't know for a fact that Stallone takes it, but I know he is, he has been on it. And so they're like, again, what reason is there to go off if you're, you know, at that age? I know Vince McMahon, he, he's gotta be still on it.

• 2:27:55Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:27:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:27:56Danny Jones?

  Yeah, for sure.

• 2:27:59Danny Jones?

  It's just, uh, you know, it's a funny chemical, man. It's, it's so, it's such a funny thing that like, what the fuck happened? Like, like, why do human beings, why do we have this fucking weird chemical in our body that just makes us horny?

• 2:28:12Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, you know, and the other, it's, it's sort of the male.

• 2:28:15Danny Jones?

  What is the purpose of it?

• 2:28:17Speaker 01

  Like, why? The male hormone.

• 2:28:18Danny Jones?

  Why do we have that? Like, why, what, what part of nature is it just because, is it, is it, is it an evolutionary process that just helps? Like, makes us want to reproduce and propagate our species? Like, it seems like that's the benefit of it.

• 2:28:29Speaker 01

  It's like a sliding scale, right? Because like, men and women both have testosterone and estrogen. And so our.

• 2:28:36Danny Jones?

  And the higher is the testosterone in the woman, the more horny she is.

• 2:28:38Speaker 01

  Yeah. Our testosterone is high. And, you know, it's, it's funny because like, we actually make products for that. Like, when you're talking about like, how horny a woman is. Um, stenozinol, which is Winstrol. They actually make a formula of stenozinol that is a, like a rub, like a cream, that a woman will rub on their clit, basically.

• 2:29:00Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 2:29:00Speaker 01

  And it makes them really horny. And it's supposed to like, supposed to like, heal relationships from what I hear.

• 2:29:06Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 2:29:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, cause like, it'll just make the woman like, really like aggressively horny. And you can get that at a compounding pharmacy, you know? Um, but yeah, it's like, there's levels of like, you know, a woman will have high estrogen, low testosterone, and a man is the opposite.

• 2:29:23Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:29:24Speaker 01

  Um, but if you give a woman just a little pinch of testosterone, a lot of times that gives them a lot of energy, makes them feel a lot better. So it's like, the, the problem with women usually, and this is another reason for compounding pharmacies, the other reason is dosing. So if you go to a, if you ask your doctor, can you use a compounding pharmacy? And you're a woman and they give you testosterone, they can give you a more precise dose, because they can make it for you. So they can, like, instead of you trying to draw out like, one tiny little milliliter out of a bottle and, and taking too much and starting to grow hair places you don't want to, you, they make it, they make it more watered down, basically, or oiled down.

• 2:30:05Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:30:05Speaker 01

  So that you can take a bigger. Chunk of it and inject it so it's more so it's more normal. You know, so it's more like like the same way a man would take it. It's just that it's watered down so that you can you can measure it. Sometimes things are just immeasurable. You know, like, did that even work? Did I even put it in myself? I don't even know.

• 2:30:25Danny Jones?

  Yeah, and the compounding pharmacies, I don't think they can get it as accurate as like pharmaceutical grade, right?

• 2:30:31Speaker 01

  Like, so, uh, the place where I work in Power Pharmacy, it's the it's probably the largest compounding pharmacy in in the world. I know at least probably in the country, um, but everything we make is to GMP standards. So GMP is General Manufacturing Practices. We can't make anything FDA. It's not FDA approved. The ingredients are FDA approved, but the actual final product that we make is not FDA approved because the FDA would have to come and check it and they don't check on compounding pharmacies. So like it's a weird, it's a weird thing. It's like, um,

• 2:31:09Danny Jones?

  But it's made so the stuff that you buy from a compounding pharmacy versus

• 2:31:13Speaker 01

  Highest quality you can possibly get, in my opinion.

• 2:31:15Danny Jones?

  So it's produced the same way as stuff you buy from like Walgreens or CVS?

• 2:31:21Danny Jones?

  They make it from from how do they make it? Isn't it yams or something?

• 2:31:25Speaker 01

  It used to be. It's really weird because I've had this question for years, right? And no one can ever like really answer it because they're like, well, it's synthetic. I'm like, but what's it from? Like, it's gotta come from something and like it comes from chemicals. I'm like, I don't know. So it used to be, it used to come from. They used to take extracts of Mexican yams and use those molecules to make synthetic testosterone, which they turn in like, you know, a keg of, uh, powder. You know, fifty five gallon drum of powder and ship it across the country. So, or, you know, from from China or wherever they make it.

• 2:32:01Speaker 01

  So I don't know exactly that's it's still a mystery to me because everybody I talk to, that's a good thing that, uh, for me to investigate now because is like, oh, it's just from a, it's just from a factory. It's a synthetic. And I'm like,

• 2:32:15Danny Jones?

  It's a weird thing to wrap your mind around that, though. Like, like, do I want to inject my body with shit that was made in a fucking lab? And like, what am I doing to my body? Am I turning myself into a into like some sort of a? Genetic cyborg by doing this.

• 2:32:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:32:29Danny Jones?

  But like, the crazy thing is though, when you measure it, they, it's literally bio-identical.

• 2:32:35Speaker 01

  That's what I'm saying, it's bio-identical. So it's like, um, they basically found a way to trick the body.

• 2:32:40Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:32:40Speaker 01

  You know, into.

• 2:32:41Danny Jones?

  Well, it's the same, I mean, it's the same thing. Like, yeah, it's, it's, it's amazing that we're, that they can do that.

• 2:32:47Speaker 01

  And, you know, so the other thing is that, uh, at Empower, we have these testosterone versions that are so great because you can take an insulin pen, which is like really tiny, a little tiny insulin pen.

• 2:32:59Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:33:00Speaker 01

  You know, prick the bottle, draw a little bit out and inject it with no problem because it's, ours is so thin. It's made to inject, it's, it's made to be easy. It's made so it doesn't.

• 2:33:10Danny Jones?

  With a different kind of carrier oil or something?

• 2:33:12Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's ma- it's made with specific, we have a specific formula that only we have. That's, makes it easier to draw out so you can use a smaller needle.

• 2:33:21Danny Jones?

  Right. I wonder how far away we are from just being able to, uh, create our own genetically modified babies. You know, that are just like those jacked cows.

• 2:33:34Speaker 01

  That's coming. Yeah.

• 2:33:36Danny Jones?

  With like CRISPR and.

• 2:33:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, the jacked cow, the Belgian blue cows.

• 2:33:39Danny Jones?

  Belgian blue cows with the myostatin, the myo.

• 2:33:41Speaker 01

  It's a myostatin inhibitor.

• 2:33:43Danny Jones?

  Yeah, right.

• 2:33:43Speaker 01

  So myostatin limits how big something can get, how muscular.

• 2:33:48Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:33:48Speaker 01

  Something, and if you inhibit that, it'll just keep growing and getting bigger. And, um, the myostatin blockers and things that are on the market right now are all garbage. They don't, none of them really work. Um, I remember like Rich Piana was a friend of mine. I love Rich Piana. He was a giant jacked. You know, huge bodybuilder. You should maybe pull him up because he looks amazing. But Rich Piana, um, before he passed away, he was messing with this stuff called folistatin. Because he thought folistatin.

• 2:34:15Danny Jones?

  Heard of that.

• 2:34:16Speaker 01

  It could be like the next big thing for, you know, really growing, you know? Yeah, unfortunately.

• 2:34:21Danny Jones?

  Oh, I remember this guy.

• 2:34:22Speaker 01

  Fortunately, he passed away.

• 2:34:24Danny Jones?

  What did he die of?

• 2:34:26Speaker 01

  So I don't know exactly what he died of. I think it was an opioid overdose, to be honest, from everything I've deduced from the case. Um, he basically took something, started foaming at the mouth and fell on the table. And he was with his girlfriend. She was cutting his hair. And then he went into a coma or they maybe they did an induced coma with him and then like 10 days later he passed away. He was just a really cool guy, but he had told me in Gold's Gym that he was messing around with this folistatin stuff which Folostatin? It's F O L F O L L I S like statin.

• 2:35:03Speaker 01

  Folistatin. Anyway, folistatin is basically a, it's gonna inhibit myostatin. But here's the deal. I went to Mexico, when I went to Mexico to get those stem cells, I also did a folistatin shot that has a technology called mini circles. And what mini circles do is replicate the drug inside your body. This is like another technology that's nuts. But basically like, so instead of the folistatin shot, having only a 90, usually has a 90 minute half-life, which means like it's active in your body for 90 minutes and then it goes away. So instead of being like this active, instead of only being active for 90 minutes and you

• 2:35:47Speaker 01

  have to shoot it again, these mini circles keep replicating the substance in your body for like a year and a half. So it's like you take a folistatin shot and it keeps replicating for a year and a half. Now that shot is $25,000 to get one, one shot and it's supposed to last a year and a half. I have not seen or felt any benefit from it. You know, like I didn't get super jacked. So I don't think it did anything. So I don't know, the jury's still out on folistatin of whether or not it works in humans or, you know, I'm just saying like, I'm just one case study. Brian Johnson, the guy who is trying to live to be 200 years old or whatever, he's also done it. I don't think it did anything for him either yet. I

• 2:36:31Speaker 01

  mean, I don't know. I mean, I've not seen a follow-up video from him about it. What do you think about that guy? I think it's great what he's doing. I watched a documentary on him and I think he's just like a lot of people. He's

• 2:36:48Danny Jones?

  Isn't he taking his kid's blood and

• 2:36:49Speaker 01

  He's a very, like a very emotionally hurt person. Who is made a lot of money and is like taking that and turning it into something that he can believe in. And something that, you know, makes him happy. And like, I'm all for it. I'm like, you know what? Go for it. But like, you could tell.

• 2:37:10Speaker 01

  He's broken. He's like a broken person.

• 2:37:12Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:37:13Speaker 01

  Didn't get a lot of love from his dad. Like, I don't know if you saw the documentary they did on him. It was, it was really good because it sort of showed, you know, both sides of it. He didn't get a lot of love from his dad. He was never the cool kid. And now he gets, you know, he's gotten hundreds of millions of dollars and he gets to play the cool kid, you know, and people want to know what he's up to and what he's doing. And I think it makes him feel good. Uh, will he live to be any longer than anybody else? I don't think so. I think he's making a big mistake by being on just a vegan diet. You know, I think there's a lot of, yeah, there's a lot of, um,

• 2:37:47Danny Jones?

  And he doesn't do any testosterone or anything like that?

• 2:37:49Speaker 01

  He does testosterone.

• 2:37:50Danny Jones?

  Oh, does he really?

• 2:37:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I think there's a lot, a big advantage to eating animal protein, um, even if it's just minimal, you know?

• 2:37:58Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:37:59Speaker 01

  Um,

• 2:38:00Danny Jones?

  And he also, um,

• 2:38:02Speaker 01

  He, he always defers. You ever watched the, watched the video of him and Derek from War Plates?

• 2:38:07Danny Jones?

  I, I watched part of that.

• 2:38:08Speaker 01

  Derek destroys him so many times. And I, I'm not out to destroy anybody. I think, I think what he's doing is great. I think it's great to experiment and learn different things. But Derek just asked him, it's like, well, who's your team? He goes, well, you know, my team, they have it, you know? And it's like, okay, this is another charlatan con artist trying to make money off of people, right? And so you go, is it that? Or is he just another hurt guy who's trying to get some attention? I don't know. It's one of the two.

• 2:38:35Danny Jones?

  Well, is he selling a bunch of shit?

• 2:38:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's selling a bunch of shit.

• 2:38:37Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:38:38Speaker 01

  But like, I'm not going to follow, you know, it's like, I'm not going to be gullible and buy the shit that he's selling because I know that doesn't work, you know?

• 2:38:45Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:38:45Speaker 01

  Um, I don't know. A lot of these people don't bother me as much as they bother other people because like, I'm never going to buy the thing that they're selling ever in a million years.

• 2:38:54Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:38:54Speaker 01

  So it doesn't bother me that they're making money off people.

• 2:38:57Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:38:58Speaker 01

  You know? I've

• 2:39:00Danny Jones?

  There's just a lot of people who just like come onto the scene out of nowhere. Well, that did come up and they and they happen to be bringing a amazing online store with tons of shit you can buy from them.

• 2:39:10Speaker 01

  And one of the things that is just mind blowing to me is that there's people out there that are carnivore coaches. And it's like, what do you do if you're a carnivore coach? Be like, eat more meat.

• 2:39:22Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:39:23Speaker 01

  You know, oh, you're not eating enough meat. Eat more meat. You know, and it's like, I get it. Like, people need support on their diet or whatever, but I just think it's, there's just so many grifters.

• 2:39:32Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:39:33Speaker 01

  Fitness.

• 2:39:33Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:39:34Speaker 01

  That the last thing you need to do is have somebody tell you you're eating meat and water wrong. You know, like, that's not like, it's not a thing. It's like, the diet is meat and water. That's all you can have. That's it. That's all you need to know. You know, and you might have, you might need a little coaching through.

• 2:39:49Danny Jones?

  Well, yeah, I mean.

• 2:39:49Speaker 01

  The beginning of it and the and the transition.

• 2:39:52Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:39:52Speaker 01

  But there's enough, there's a million videos online too. So the fact that people are making money off of it always just makes me shake my head, you know?

• 2:39:59Danny Jones?

  I guess if you have the money to pay somebody to like, you know, walk you step by step into like how to like meal prep and like how to buy the right kind of food and how to like, what time of day to eat it.

• 2:40:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:40:10Danny Jones?

  Cause there's so much more that goes into it other than what you're eating, right? Like, there's like, again, something else I learned from Jack and this girl Alexis, who Alexis Cowan, who came in here, which they were, she was explaining to me how like, you're supposed to eat during the time when the sun comes up before the UVA light kicks in. So like, there's this short window of time, typically like an hour and a half, depending on what part of the world you're in, where the UV and infrared light is coming out of, you know, coming from the sun. And when that sun is low in the sky, apparently is when your metabolism is working at the highest possible speed. So that's when you're supposed to eat, when your metabolism is really kicking in.

• 2:40:55Danny Jones?

  And then once the UVA light kicks in, like around here, I think it's like 10 o'clock, that's when you're supposed to eat less or not eat as much, because that's when you're, like, high noon is basically the slowest point of your metabolism during the day. So that's the point. Time if you're optimizing for energy, that's not when you want to eat. So like a lot of people like to skip breakfast and you know, eat lunch and dinner. But like, when I learned that, I started eating a huge breakfast, you know, after I wake up. And then skipping lunch and personally for me, I felt a hundred times.

• 2:41:25Speaker 01

  Seems like it works.

• 2:41:26Danny Jones?

  Way more fucking energy.

• 2:41:27Speaker 01

  You know, Rob Wolf eats like that. Rob Wolf's really smart. He's one of the top guy, you know, he was on the first person. I followed when I did like paleo and stuff like that. And then we became friends with him. And Rob Wolf told me something that stuck with me forever. First of all, he said, just what you said, maybe you're better off like eating breakfast and eating dinner.

• 2:41:47Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:41:47Speaker 01

  And like sort of intermittent fasting in between, you know, where you don't eat anything.

• 2:41:51Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:41:52Speaker 01

  And then he also said, I think if our country just simply ate from like, from when the sun comes up until the sun comes down and not a minute before, not a minute after.

• 2:42:02Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:42:03Speaker 01

  We would solve like 80% of our health problems.

• 2:42:05Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:42:06Speaker 01

  And I'm like, that's, that's a pretty bold statement. And he goes, yeah, but I think it's true. I was like, I think the fact is, most people eat, you know, when they're not supposed to eat. They eat too late at night. Like you gotta, when the sun goes down, shut it down.

• 2:42:18Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:42:19Speaker 01

  And that's like our circadian rhythm.

• 2:42:20Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:42:21Speaker 01

  I don't know if he said 80%, I don't want to misquote him, but he said a majority of our health problems.

• 2:42:25Danny Jones?

  Totally.

• 2:42:26Speaker 01

  The other thing is that I think people need to understand because we've talked about all these different diets and different plans. And like I said, I think they're all great tools. But the thing that I think people really need to understand is that like literally losing weight is the number one way to cure your health problems. So like, if you have any, any kind of health problem, no matter what it seems to be, it seems that like losing weight will almost always help it. You know, and that comes from our friend Stan Efforting, who's a gigantic bodybuilder, but he's um, just very intelligent. That's like another thing that's always stuck with me is like.

• 2:43:03Speaker 01

  If your body's failing you, lose weight.

• 2:43:05Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:43:05Speaker 01

  Because it resolves so many problems. Like for most people, it's because they're overweight.

• 2:43:10Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:43:10Speaker 01

  You know, some things are not going to be because you're overweight, like you might have a gut issue.

• 2:43:14Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:43:14Speaker 01

  Things like that, but like a lot of our health problems resolve when we simply lose weight. Some people get some sort of issue and they go, I don't know how to fix it. It's kind of like, well, just lose weight.

• 2:43:23Danny Jones?

  Right. Well, the saying just lose weight, though, with like, how? Like, what's the best way to lose weight? Like, what part of your lifestyle do you have to change to lose weight? That's another thing, like, just taking Ozempic is, I don't think, going to be the right answer. Like, you got, there's got to be like a decent balance of, of lifestyle changes that you incorporate to losing weight.

• 2:43:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 2:43:41Danny Jones?

  You know, fixing your circadian rhythm, being outside more, eating the right times of the day, not eating processed junk food, not eating out every single day. And then, you know, as well, another thing that I learned is like eating native shit, like eating native meats. Like, eating like around here, the fish that is caught around here and not salmon that's imported from the other side of the, you know, from a fish farm in fucking Michigan or something like that. That's, you know, another huge thing that I learned.

• 2:44:09Speaker 01

  Well, it's like, where did your food come from, right?

• 2:44:11Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:44:11Speaker 01

  It's like, that's a huge thing for me is like, I really only eat food, you know, food from certain, like, like I said, I eat like meat, fruit and vegetables, so it's all pretty much.

• 2:44:21Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:44:21Speaker 01

  You know, things that are fresh, things that are local, things that, you know. Um, with the, with the fruits, I'd say that's probably not local because that's coming from like all over the place.

• 2:44:30Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:44:31Speaker 01

  Um, but you really can't help it in today's day and age. I mean, like, what do you do?

• 2:44:35Danny Jones?

  You can't, bro.

• 2:44:36Speaker 01

  You can't really go.

• 2:44:37Danny Jones?

  The way the world's built.

• 2:44:38Speaker 01

  It's hard. It's like you go to the store and you're like, well, I'm only going to buy strawberries because that's what grows around here.

• 2:44:43Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:44:44Speaker 01

  And it's like, I, you know, limit all the rest of the stuff that you, you know, doesn't grow, you know.

• 2:44:48Danny Jones?

  That's why I like, that's why I like living near the ocean. There's so much good seafood around here, so much good shit.

• 2:44:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, that's one thing I miss about California and California, I'm right by the ocean. So all the seafood was good. I don't eat a lot of seafood, but now that I live in Houston, it's like, there's no, that's like landlocked kind of.

• 2:45:05Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:45:06Speaker 01

  You know, it's like not.

• 2:45:07Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:45:07Speaker 01

  I don't trust it.

• 2:45:08Danny Jones?

  This is the, actually, right down the street here is the, is the biggest grouper port in the world. There's more grouper caught out in the Gulf of Mexico right here than anywhere in the world.

• 2:45:16Speaker 01

  You eat a lot of fish?

• 2:45:16Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I eat a ton of fish, a ton of grouper and snappers mostly.

• 2:45:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:45:20Danny Jones?

  Because that's from around here and then, you know, like the tuna is good, but like this, all the salmon, all the salmon is dog shit around here. There's very, I mean, there's some of it that's imported from Alaska that's like, you know, king salmon. But most, you know, 99% of the salmon that you go to any sushi restaurant, all of that comes from these salmon farms.

• 2:45:38Speaker 01

  And that's so hard, right? Because salmon is so good for you, but also so bad. If you're like, if you're getting the salmon from salmon farms, it's not eating what it's supposed to eat. So what happens is in the stomach of that fish, it's monogastric. It has one, you know, one intestine, like a cow can take almost any food you give. You can give a cow corn, you can give a cow old Skittles or old M and M's and it is going to turn it into high quality beef, no matter what you do. It's got, it's got four stomachs. And so

• 2:46:10Danny Jones?

  A cow has four stomachs?

• 2:46:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:46:12Danny Jones?

  How did I not know that?

• 2:46:13Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 2:46:13Danny Jones?

  That's crazy.

• 2:46:14Speaker 01

  But what it does is it can take anything, anything it eats and turn it into high quality protein for humans. Whereas a pig can't do that and a, you know, a pig can't do it and a, um, you know, a sheep can do it, but you're not going to, people don't really feed sheep crappy stuff. But a lot of times like you'll see cows like on these, um, you know, in these feed lots and they, the, the feed they give them sometimes is crap. You know, like they give them, like I said, like old Skittles, old like broken M and M's and they, they throw it in a bunch of feed and they'll throw it in for the cows to eat. And like, to be honest, it doesn't really make a difference in the health outcomes that we, we've seen, you know? I don't know if they've ever done a study specifically on that, but it doesn't seem

• 2:46:57Speaker 01

  to matter when you stack up like the benefits of grass finished beef to, to, you know, that it, it might, there might be some differences in it. Like, okay, you got healthier fat from the grass finished beef. But first of all, they just did a study that found out like 80% of the grass finished beef in America, like, isn't really grass finished beef anyway. So first of all, you're dealing with that. And then second of all, you're dealing with like, well, how much of a difference does it make? Cause it's like $2 a pound more for the grass finished stuff. So you gotta like weigh out those, those issues. And then like with the salmon, since it doesn't have anywhere to go, it will digest the corn that they're feeding it and it'll turn into the wrong kinds of fat that you don't need.

• 2:47:39Speaker 01

  And so now you're having like salmon that instead of being high in omega three fat, which is good for you, is high in omega six fat or omega nine fat, which we already have too much of.

• 2:47:50Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:47:51Speaker 01

  So it's kind of messes up everything.

• 2:47:53Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Um, so I think we we covered.

• 2:47:56Speaker 01

  Everything.

• 2:47:57Danny Jones?

  We covered a bunch of your documentaries, but I don't think we covered the Trophy Kids documentary.

• 2:48:01Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, Trophy Kids was fun.

• 2:48:02Danny Jones?

  At what point did you do the Trophy Kids documentary?

• 2:48:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, so what happened was I did Trophy Kids actually second.

• 2:48:08Danny Jones?

  That was a second, that was after Bigger, Stronger, Faster?

• 2:48:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, so what happened was, um, I made Bigger, Stronger, Faster. And, um, it went to Sundance, it did, you know, it did great.

• 2:48:19Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:48:19Speaker 01

  And, um, basically like I, uh, was trying to figure out like what to do next. And couldn't really figure it out, didn't really get anything going. Like I was represented by William Morris. I was actually trying to, they were trying to sign me on to like direct some big, pretty big movies. But it seemed like one after the other, they just kept like falling apart. So in the meantime, I was hanging out with, uh, my best friend who was a six foot eight, you know, basketball player from Michigan, big dude, and he was coaching, uh, kids basketball. And I go to go like hang out with him, maybe coaching like AAU practice. And I watched the parents arguing, yelling at him, telling him like, hey, what are you doing? My kid's really good, he needs to play.

• 2:49:03Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:49:03Speaker 01

  All this stuff, like dude, we should film this, this is crazy. Cause like it's nuts, you know, and one mom coming to him saying, you know, I don't know if I should hold them back this year because I need to put some weight on them and you know, like.

• 2:49:14Danny Jones?

  Oh, my God.

• 2:49:15Speaker 01

  They're basically like fattening their kids up for the slaughter, you know? And, um, I just thought it was an insane world. And so I just started bringing a camera and started filming it. And then, um, because I worked out at Gold's Gym, I would see Pete Berg all the time. And I go, hey, Pete, I got something for you to see. And he's like, oh, okay, like email it to me. So I emailed him like a little trailer. Cause I just like took some of it and cut it together. I said, you think this would be a good movie? I was like, oh, this would be a fucking great movie. Like we gotta do this like, and so he basically just said, uh, Go ahead, go out and just like shoot a bunch of stuff and then bring it back to me and we'll see where you're at and whatever. And so I went out and shot a bunch of stuff, um, basically for

• 2:49:57Speaker 01

  free, you know, like went out and shot it with like the hopes of like, hey, hopefully this, you know, gets picked up or something.

• 2:50:03Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:50:03Speaker 01

  And then, um, what ended up happening is, uh, he saw it. He saw like a, a longer trailer, like a three minute trailer. Once I had everything cut together and he just loved it. So he basically brought it into his company and turned it into like, um, it was, it was a two-fold thing. It was a, it's a documentary called Trophy Kids. And then you, people can still see it right now on HBO Max. It's part of a program that Pete Borg did called State of Play. You can look up Trophy Kids on HBO Max and I'm sure you'll find it. And that's a shorter version of it. Um, unfortunately, the, this happens a lot with documentaries and movies. The, the company we were working with on

• 2:50:44Speaker 01

  Trophy Kids basically imploded and no longer exists. So I don't even know.

• 2:50:50Danny Jones?

  Production company?

• 2:50:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, the production company. And, um, it was on Netflix for a little while. It did pretty well on Netflix, but then, you know, Netflix has terms. I think it was on there for two years.

• 2:51:01Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:51:02Speaker 01

  And it got pulled off. To me, it was an amazing movie because the, um, following these kids and their, and their parents was crazy. And then the HBO version's only like a 40 minute version of it. So it was like an hour and 15 minute hour, hour and like 45 minute movie cut down to like 40 minutes.

• 2:51:19Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:51:20Speaker 01

  Which is just kind of the highlights of the parents yelling at the kids, which is still a lot of fun.

• 2:51:23Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:51:24Speaker 01

  But that's the version I think that lives on HBO. And like the full version, I don't even know whatever happened to it, but that was just a crazy project to make because, um, it was, you know, to me it was cool because it got on, it got onto HBO.

• 2:51:38Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:51:39Speaker 01

  And like, you know, I, but you know, the problem is I, I never got any credit, zero credit.

• 2:51:44Danny Jones?

  Oh, really?

• 2:51:44Speaker 01

  So like when you go on HBO and watch it, my name's not even on it.

• 2:51:47Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow.

• 2:51:47Speaker 01

  Cause I got, so here's what happened. So to be honest with it, here's what happened. When we finished that movie was when I was, when we finished Trophy Kids, that's when I needed to go to rehab. And so actually, in a weird way, I think Pete Berg helped like save my life, to be honest. So like he was the one that, he was the one that told me, hey, man, you're pretty fucked up. Like you, you need to fix yourself. And he's somebody who like I resp- like I was so excited that Pete Berg wanted to like work on my movie. Like he wanted to help me with this movie. I was so pumped about it. And then he tells me like, hey, man, you're pretty fucked up. Like you smell like booze a lot. You look pretty disheveled. Like what's going on with you?

• 2:52:29Speaker 01

  And like, I was just like, man, like I just got kind of yelled at by Peter Berg, you know? Like he's a big time director. Like, yeah, and I just like took it to heart and like, two weeks after that, I was in rehab. So the reason, there's a reason why my name wasn't on that part of the movie. But I still think it's fucked up and my name should still be on it. I directed the entire thing. I shot the entire movie. Like I shot, physically shot it with, you know, with my own camera. So I think my name should be on it.

• 2:52:58Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I would say so.

• 2:52:59Speaker 01

  So the full version it is, but not that, not on that.

• 2:53:02Danny Jones?

  So what, what was it about these parents that made them such psychos?

• 2:53:07Speaker 01

  They just, uh, they think that they love their kids.

• 2:53:10Danny Jones?

  They think that they love their kids.

• 2:53:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, they don't know how to love their kids, you know? And so they think like, well, if my kid's good at basketball and I can get him a scholarship. You know, it was like, instead of putting him on, like it was kind of funny because it was a follow up to Bigger, Stronger, Faster, where I said, well, if you can't put them on steroids, just start them younger. And it was like, I was just watching all these kids starting younger and younger and younger in different sports. And, um, you know, it got to a point where it's like ridiculous. You have like five and six year olds who can't even throw a ball and their parents are like yelling at them to do better, you know? And I watched it from all different angles. Like we have, um, a parent in the movie who's a tennis mom. And she's like a born again Christian and she's got all these wacky thoughts about like,

• 2:53:55Speaker 01

  my will for my boys is that they're going to be number one in the world in tennis. And I've asked- God about this and I've prayed to God and said they're gonna be number one in tennis and it's like lady what are you thinking? You don't pray to God for your you pray for God your kids to be happy and healthy. You don't pray to God for your kid to be good at tennis and then you're you know to be honest your kids kind of suck at tennis. They're not that good. They'll never they'll never you like we knew that these kids would never make it in the big time like you know it like you know when you play sports when you're a kid. You know when you have that kid on your team like that kid's gonna go somewhere.

• 2:54:30Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:54:31Speaker 01

  You know, and like when we were it's kind of funny because like when we were younger, we saw it with my older brother. My older brother played football and he was really good and we're like mad dog like he's gonna probably go somewhere and do something, but then we had this kid that came in from another school who was like six foot two this jacked black kid named Dwayne Gordon comes in. He's six foot two, two hundred and forty pounds in high school and we're like that guy's gonna like he's gonna go to the pros and

• 2:55:05Speaker 01

  we knew you just you knew you know like those are the guy those two guys on that team were gonna go somewhere and so my older brother ended up going to the University of Cincinnati. He's the first person in the history of our high school to ever go play division one football, but he dropped out in a year because he hurt his knee and he wanted to come home because he missed his girlfriend and then he went and wrestled for WWE. Dwayne Gordon, on the other hand, went to New Hampshire, which is division one double A, played linebacker there. He was awesome and then he went on and played for the Jets for a couple of years. But you just knew like when Dwayne Gordon stepped on the field, you knew like that guy's gonna be a pro, man. Like there's there's no doubt about it.

• 2:55:43Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:55:43Speaker 01

  I think like even when I went to USC, um, I knew the kids that were in my classes are like, okay, that guy's gonna be a pro. There's no doubt like

• 2:55:50Danny Jones?

  Yep.

• 2:55:51Speaker 01

  He just holds himself in that

• 2:55:52Danny Jones?

  Yep.

• 2:55:52Speaker 01

  way and you know.

• 2:55:54Danny Jones?

  Yeah, there was a kid I went to school with uh in like fourth, fifth and sixth grade and he was clearly did not belong in that class with us like he towered above all of us. He was just like super athletic, super freak, fast. And even the teacher was like this guy's gonna be in the fucking NFL like even we were playing we were playing like uh like flag football.

• 2:56:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:56:16Danny Jones?

  And it was just like completely unbelievable how this kid, he wasn't even in the same universe as us athletically. And he ended up going to the NFL. He went and played for the Gators and then played for uh an NFL team.

• 2:56:27Speaker 01

  And the thing is, you see it with their with their parents are usually cool. Like they're not.

• 2:56:31Danny Jones?

  Well, this kid's parents.

• 2:56:32Speaker 01

  They're not usually nutty.

• 2:56:33Danny Jones?

  This kid's parents were both athletes. Like the dad, I think he was like super tall, athletic dude and the mom was like a former WNBA player, I think.

• 2:56:42Speaker 01

  Really?

• 2:56:43Danny Jones?

  So it's almost like, you know, these two super athletes got together to create a super athlete child.

• 2:56:49Speaker 01

  Well, there's gonna be a lot of more, a lot more of that coming up. I mean, that's gonna be like the next thing is like, you're gonna be able to design whatever kind of kid you want. So. There's an old HBO Real Sports thing that when I was making, so when I was making trophy kids, I originally was gonna make it more like bigger, stronger, faster. So I had all these clips that I found and I found this clip of a sperm bank and it's a ESPN clip of, I whatever HBO Real Sports maybe or ESPN, one of those. And it's a basically a story about a sperm bank where you can go and you can say, I want my kid to have big calves. I want him to have, literally, I want him to have blue eyes, blonde hair, B six, three with big calves.

• 2:57:32Speaker 01

  And they'll like, what they do is they match up donors, different like women and men donors.

• 2:57:38Danny Jones?

  Uh huh.

• 2:57:38Speaker 01

  And they try to give you the best shot at what you want. And it's like.

• 2:57:42Danny Jones?

  Oh my god.

• 2:57:43Speaker 01

  And that's, that was like, maybe, that clip's like 10 years old. So like, I'm sure that that's going on already.

• 2:57:49Danny Jones?

  And does it work?

• 2:57:50Speaker 01

  Well, it's not gonna guarantee that the kid's good at anything. You know, like we had a bunch of kids at our school that were like really big and they should have played football or should have, you know, they never, just never did because they were lazy.

• 2:58:03Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:58:05Danny Jones?

  That's crazy.

• 2:58:05Speaker 01

  So you can't predict that. You can't predict if somebody's gonna be lazy or not.

• 2:58:08Danny Jones?

  Yeah, right. Yeah, you definitely can't pick that. But like, I mean, when we get to the point where people can just go to a clinic and just like choose from a menu, all the traits that they want their kids to be.

• 2:58:19Speaker 01

  It's gonna be like ordering a smoothie. Like, do you want bananas, strawberries? You know, what do you want, what do you want in it? And it's like, yeah, okay, I'll take the big calves, you know, like.

• 2:58:28Danny Jones?

  The big calves.

• 2:58:28Speaker 01

  Well, that's what's funny.

• 2:58:29Danny Jones?

  Why would you want big calves?

• 2:58:30Speaker 01

  I don't know that.

• 2:58:30Danny Jones?

  It's the benefit of that.

• 2:58:31Speaker 01

  I don't know that, because I have big calves and they don't do anything for me.

• 2:58:33Danny Jones?

  Right, the most athletic people have small calves.

• 2:58:35Speaker 01

  No one ever, uh, no one's ever stopped me and like, wanted to take a picture of my big calves. You know, no one's ever, yeah, there's never really been any advantage to it.

• 2:58:45Danny Jones?

  Right, right.

• 2:58:46Speaker 01

  It is there. And it's just genetic. Like, I've never done a calf, yeah, I shouldn't say I've never done a calf raise in my life, but I haven't done calf raises in like 20 years.

• 2:58:53Danny Jones?

  Well, like, the most super athletic athletes, right, in America at least, the most jacked super athletes, like LeBron James for a-

• 2:59:02Speaker 01

  The best example is Bones Jones.

• 2:59:04Danny Jones?

  They have no calves.

• 2:59:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, nothing.

• 2:59:06Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:59:07Speaker 01

  But you're not gonna tell them, go tell them you have no calves, they'll get kicked right in the head.

• 2:59:11Danny Jones?

  Exactly.

• 2:59:12Speaker 01

  You know what I mean?

• 2:59:12Danny Jones?

  Or like Usain Bolt, you know, like, like these guys, like, interesting. What would be the benefit of having big calves, I wonder?

• 2:59:19Speaker 01

  They don't really, it doesn't really make them stronger, I don't think. I don't think I can like, out-calf anybody, you know? You know what I mean?

• 2:59:27Danny Jones?

  Oh my god, that's so funny, bro. Well, Chris, dude, thanks for doing this, man. This has been some fucking amazing, uh, conversation. I appreciate you coming and doing this.

• 2:59:36Speaker 01

  It's a fun podcast, man. I really appreciate being on here and the opportunity to talk to you.

• 2:59:40Danny Jones?

  Hell, yeah, man. Um, you, your documentaries are fucking fantastic and, uh, everything else you're doing. If there, is there a way people can like, get in contact with you or, um, watch any of your stuff?

• 2:59:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm, um, I'm on Instagram at BigStrongFast. That's pretty much the only place I am at right now. Um, I am gonna be making a couple more movies. I'm just trying to decide on like, what to make and what to do, you know? Like, in the, in the meantime here, so I'm, I'm definitely looking into that. You know, I've been wanting to make a sequel to Bigger, Stronger, Faster for quite some time, because I think there's such a divide between, um, between steroids then, like, when I made the movie, and where it's at now.

• 3:00:22Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:00:23Speaker 01

  And what, you know, and what can be done through modern medicine, like, with all the stuff I'm talking about, like, what's the difference between- Replacing your testosterone and showing people what that story is and and like people juicing. Like, no, you, I don't want people to juice. I want people to use testosterone and sort of telling that story, you know, um, and, you know, I want to do something about ibogaine. I want to do, uh, maybe something again in this, you know, kratom space. So it's just like figuring out what to do next is sort of, uh, what I'm trying to, that's, that's where I'm at right now.

• 3:00:56Danny Jones?

  Should do a podcast.

• 3:00:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm working on it, man.

• 3:01:00Danny Jones?

  That'd be fucking phenomenal. We could hear everything, you know, everything you're doing every fucking day of the, every day of the week. We don't have to wait, you know, a year for a documentary.

• 3:01:08Speaker 01

  I might need your help.

• 3:01:09Danny Jones?

  I used to make documentaries and that's how I created this podcast.

• 3:01:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:01:12Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:01:13Speaker 01

  Well, help me out.

• 3:01:14Danny Jones?

  Yeah, dude, say the word. Let me know. I'm down.

• 3:01:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, thank you, buddy.

• 3:01:18Danny Jones?

  Thanks again, brother.

• 3:01:18Speaker 01

  I love it.

• 3:01:19Danny Jones?

  All right. Good night, everybody.

• 3:01:21Speaker 03

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