KHC 175 - Rachel Entrekin

Rachel Entrekin - American elite ultramarathon runner and physical therapist known for her remarkable performances in some of the world’s toughest long-distance trail races. Rachel joins the Keep Hammering Collective to talk about her path from a full-time job to life as a full-time athlete, balancing sponsorships, science, and the grit of mountain running. She opens up about overcoming an eating disorder, finding strength through lifting, embracing imperfections, and building a “bulletproof” life - on and off the trails. From Hardrock dreams and Courtney Dauwalter inspiration to pain caves, haters, and why speedwork is still the worst, this episode is honest, motivating, and unapologetically real. Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/ Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com Follow Rachel: https://www.instagram.com/rachel__entrekin/ Timestamps: 00:00:00 – Full Time Job to Full Time Athlete 00:07:14 – Rachel’s Sponsorships 00:15:10 – Dirtbag Runner with a Doctorate Degree 00:22:48 – Eating Disorder, Rehab, and Finding a Love for Mountain Running 00:36:29 – Learning How to Shoot a Bow & the Appreciation of Helping Others 00:48:17 – Spike Camp & Encouragement from Rachel 00:55:23 – Elevation & Gain in Running and Making an Impact 01:00:27 – A Mental Block with Lifting & Creating a Bullet Proof Life with Strength 01:04:18 – Who Inspires Rachel: Courtney Dauwalter 01:11:27 – People That Don’t Believe in You - Haters 01:17:51 – Goals for 2026 01:26:52 – Upcoming Opportunities 01:30:24 – Personalities in Running and the Inspiration of Imperfections 01:38:19 – Podcast Experiences and Learning from Others 01:43:08 – F**k, Marry, Kill: Hardrock, Western States, UTMB 01:44:19 – Is a 50k an Ultra Race? 01:46:50 – Rachel’s “Pain Cave” or “Filing” Cabinet” When Things Get Hard 01:50:01 – Who Rachel Would Switch Minds with During a Race 01:51:40 – Always Excited to Run … Unless it’s Speedwork 01:53:29 – The Power of Everything Going Wrong 01:57:54 – Final Thoughts and New Bow Thank you to our sponsors: https://cameronhanes.com/pages/sponsors

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:15Cameron Hanes?

  This is the Keep Hammering Collective with Rachel Entrekin.

• 0:18Speaker 01

  Hello.

• 0:19Cameron Hanes?

  How are you?

• 0:19Speaker 01

  I'm great. Every part of my body hurts.

• 0:23Cameron Hanes?

  Dude, this is day four of our immersion experience. What do you think?

• 0:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're, I mean, I don't know why I thought that you weren't fast, or I guess that's incorrect. I was not aware of how fast you were. I think, well, I mean, I, I'm gonna be perfectly honest. Like, I look at what I did at Coko Dona and then what you did at Coko Dona, and I made some assumptions about stuff.

• 0:48Cameron Hanes?

  You crushed me.

• 0:48Speaker 01

  And assumptions are dumb.

• 0:50Cameron Hanes?

  It's like 20 hour, or what was your time?

• 0:53Speaker 01

  Uh, 60, almost 64. So 63, 50, something.

• 0:56Cameron Hanes?

  Here's the difference. I just looked at your ultra sign up. You've won 21 straight races and before, then you got fifth before that, but then won like a million before that fifth. So we aren't the same. So just like a heads up.

• 1:09Speaker 01

  One of us knows how to race and one of us knows how to run.

• 1:12Cameron Hanes?

  Maybe, I don't know. But yeah, so you got, Coko Dona is, is for me is like 256 or 57 miles. I got off course a little bit sometimes.

• 1:21Speaker 01

  We all do.

• 1:22Cameron Hanes?

  But you did it in 64 hours. So under three days, you didn't sleep, you crushed it. You won for the second year in a row. You're badass. You're a legend. And then 20 hours later, like a whole, yeah, like a whole day later, here I come struggling in. So yeah, we, you definitely got the ultra running down.

• 1:43Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, I mean, I, I really do stand by, I think, I mean, you're a super good runner. I just, I just made a lot of assumptions based off racing, which I think is foolish. Cause yeah, you're really quick. Um, I don't tend to train. I've, I've recently started doing more speed workouts, but um, that's a very new thing for me and you're quite fast.

• 2:03Cameron Hanes?

  Well, you like, um, you're fast. So this is gonna be us like talking about each other, how awesome we are.

• 2:09Speaker 01

  I know.

• 2:10Cameron Hanes?

  But uh, no.

• 2:12Speaker 01

  No, you're fast.

• 2:13Cameron Hanes?

  We won't be talking about how awesome Gideon is.

• 2:15Speaker 01

  No, he was fast too. That was so impressive.

• 2:19Speaker 01

  Sorry. Are we on shit talkers right now? He sucks.

• 2:22Cameron Hanes?

  We're always sort of on shit talkers. Um, let's see. Uh, no, but like your top end speed and I kept saying it like your stride is great. You know, no, most time people think ultra runners and they think just kind of slog it out, right?

• 2:36Speaker 01

  I'm really good at that. Well, if you want to be impressed.

• 2:39Cameron Hanes?

  That's part of it. That's part of it. Like a 10 minute mile. You know, a lot of times it's like, if we can sustain a 10 minute mile for 200 miles, you're probably going to win, you know?

• 2:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, you'll definitely win. I mean, you'd blow Dan Green's pace out of the water because I think he was a 13.

• 2:55Cameron Hanes?

  Right. So, so yeah, it's not like the speed in ultras. I don't know. I don't really know how to, uh, yeah, I don't know what the correlation is, but it's not like on the track, of course, or even a marathon or a 10K or 5K. So we've got some, I don't know, room to improve, I think there. But the point is, we got on the track, we did some fast miles and you could, your strut stride is strong.

• 3:19Speaker 01

  Well, thank you. Yeah.

• 3:21Cameron Hanes?

  So I mean, like, obviously your mental is, is great just from, that's what ultra running is. It's just a mental test. But yeah, I'm excited because I think your ceiling is even higher than we've seen because of what I've seen on the speed part.

• 3:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:34Cameron Hanes?

  We know the endurance part.

• 3:35Speaker 01

  Well, I get an opportunity to explore my ceiling now that I'm not having to cram training into like 20 hour, well, I guess I, whatever. But yeah, I mean, not, because you know, I recently got a full-time sponsorship opportunity and like, yeah, I think, I think I'm excited to explore what the ceiling is because I've just been too tired. Like honestly, I'm too tired to do it. I have been too tired to do it beforehand. So now I actually have the like, uh, resources to explore a little bit more.

• 4:05Cameron Hanes?

  And time. Yeah. I mean, because it's, uh, it's hard when you train 20 hours a week running. And then if you had a full-time job and then recovery for an elite athlete.

• 4:16Speaker 01

  Recovery did not exist for me.

• 4:18Cameron Hanes?

  Right. And as for an elite athlete, that has to be just as important as the training, essentially.

• 4:24Cameron Hanes?

  So you've done all that, had all these amazing results while working full-time and now you're sponsored, as you said, which is, I loved, that's, I mean, I'd love to hear it. Because if the people at the top of the sport aren't sponsored, and you know, then you see like these, um, the industry is making billions, I'm like, hey, ultra running is, it takes so much work to be good at it, and talent, and pain, and suffering, and all that, you guys need to be rewarded, or compensated fairly. So I'm, I'm pumped to hear of, you know, your journey now and being sponsored, and you have time, so now we can actually see where, where your ceiling is, as I said.

• 5:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, I have basically two rules. It's don't lose my job and don't get injured. Because that would be such a bummer to like, I've, I've been extraordinarily lucky, and I think too genetically, I'm a little bit more durable, I think. But I've been extraordinarily lucky to not have any considerable injuries, I guess. So I'm hoping that that continues.

• 5:25Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, we've had a lot of time to talk, and yeah, you haven't had injuries to deal with.

• 5:29Speaker 01

  I've been able to run through any, I mean, I've had injuries, because I, I mean, I broke my ankle, and then I, I had some IT issues last year because of steroid from pneumonia.

• 5:39Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 5:39Speaker 01

  Usage, um, but yeah, I mean, I've always been able to run through anything.

• 5:44Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 5:44Speaker 01

  So, yeah.

• 5:45Cameron Hanes?

  Well, you love running.

• 5:47Speaker 01

  I love running.

• 5:48Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, even just that big smile right now, talking about running. And I think that's, that is the thing. It's like, do you love what you do, then who knows what? But some people, like you wonder, like, the question, why are they getting into it? Do they need attention, this or that, or whatever? But for you, there's no doubt, you just love to run and be in the mountains and be free.

• 6:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:08Cameron Hanes?

  And that, that part there does remind me of Courtney, because it's like, she does, I feel the same thing from her. So it was like, I think that's the way, the path to greatness is, you have to live for this stuff.

• 6:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, it's funny, because I've been

• 6:26Speaker 01

  Considering pursuing sponsorship opportunities, obviously before this year. And it's much harder than I thought for a lot of reasons, but I was always a little bit like reticent to pursue anything because I didn't want running to become a job.

• 6:41Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 6:42Speaker 01

  And I'm really happy that so far it does not feel that way. Like, there's a lot of parts to sponsorships that does feel like work. Like, there's a lot of travel opportunity, or yeah, opportunity is a good word, but there's a lot of travel involved and there's a lot of like video and content creation and like brand placements, ads and stuff. And that feels like work, but the running part just feels exactly the same. Like, it's still something that I just am so stoked to do every single day and I want to do it as long as possible.

• 7:13Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah. Well, tell me about your sponsors. I mean, how'd that how'd that come up?

• 7:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I guess the first group was Precision Fueling and Hydration. They're a company out of England. I met them at States, I guess in 2024. So I just won Coca-Cola. I didn't know shit about nutrition and I still admittedly, that's my weakest subject. But I had won Coca-Cola and they had been paying attention to that race. And so I was working at Forest Hill Aid Station and they were like doing their content or at the race. And they interviewed me and they didn't, I don't know if they necessarily put together who I was. And then I guess somebody at the aid station was like, oh yeah,

• 8:02Speaker 01

  she's the chick who won Coca-Cola. And then they're like, oh, wait. And so we kind of got on each other's radar there. And then after I decided to do Coca-Cola again in 2025, they, I emailed them because I knew Courtney was running and I knew that I didn't want to make a fool out of myself in front of my like idol. Like, I didn't.

• 8:23Cameron Hanes?

  Like what? Like get, you wanted to be competitive?

• 8:26Speaker 01

  I wanted to be competitive and I, I wanted to improve on my, because I bonked pretty hard in 2024 and that, I mean, honestly, that ate up at least four hours of my time. And if I could, if I could understand what happened and if I could fix that, and it was all nutrition based, then there's four free hours. And so, so I reached out to them in January and I was like, hey, I'd love to. Figure out what I'm doing wrong here. Um, and so they set me up with a food scientist and then I obviously did pretty well this past year. And, um, so in June at States again this year, we were both there and they like sat me down and did this whole interview and it was

• 9:10Speaker 01

  super fun and they gave me a button up shirt.

• 9:12Cameron Hanes?

  Nice.

• 9:12Speaker 01

  Which is they're sick.

• 9:14Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 9:15Speaker 01

  And, uh, yeah, they were like, well, we'd love to formally have a partnership. Um, and they, so they were the first ones to

• 9:21Cameron Hanes?

  That's great.

• 9:22Speaker 01

  formally be like, all right, here's money, which is, and they're so fun. They're such fun guys. Um,

• 9:27Cameron Hanes?

  There's, there's one clip I've seen you running like with a white button up.

• 9:30Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 9:31Cameron Hanes?

  Is that the one?

• 9:31Speaker 01

  That's theirs. Yeah.

• 9:32Cameron Hanes?

  Okay, yeah. Super cute.

• 9:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're super cool. Um, we actually have designed a custom button up shirt together and I did the little doodles. There's like a dog on there. Um,

• 9:42Cameron Hanes?

  Well, I, I remember that image and that's, that's cool.

• 9:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're cool. They're a fun, they're a really fun company to work with. Um, and that's what I feel is I don't feel like I work for them. I feel like I work with them and that feels nice. And so, um, so they were kind of the first and then, um, Coros was kind of, Coros and Tantrums both, um, so Tantrums is a pack company and then Coros is the timeware. Um, but they kind of both approached me around Mammoth. They kind of capitalized on like, hey, you're about to do this thing and we think you're awesome. And I, I like both of those companies.

• 10:14Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 10:15Speaker 01

  And so, um, they hopped on the train. There's a eyewear brand called Bulle.

• 10:19Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm, yeah.

• 10:20Speaker 01

  We've been working, they're, that, the freaking

• 10:23Cameron Hanes?

  Those white glasses?

• 10:24Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, they're sick. They're discontinued, which is such a bummer. So I told the athlete rep, I was like, I don't care. Like those are mine. And so he went to the warehouse and he got all of them.

• 10:35Cameron Hanes?

  Sweet.

• 10:35Speaker 01

  And now they're mine. Um, but they're red, white and blue.

• 10:38Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 10:39Speaker 01

  Cause they're a French company and those are their colors too. But I was like, not today.

• 10:42Cameron Hanes?

  I just, I just remember that James got some good photos yesterday of you or we put them up yesterday, but, uh, those white ones look

• 10:49Speaker 01

  Are sick.

• 10:50Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, they look good.

• 10:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're pretty slick. Um,

• 10:52Cameron Hanes?

  Who else?

• 10:53Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, um, and then Norda, Norda was, Norda was my shoe sponsor. And so they've, you know, all of those smaller, kind of like secondary brands. Um, I obviously still needed a full-time job and then Norda, cause typically I guess like the shoe wear brands are the ones that usually provide you with enough uh financial stability to run full-time. And so that was kind of the one that like I and everybody else was waiting on is like, who's gonna sign this woman? Um, so yeah, Norda, um, it's funny because I was actually sent a pair of shoes by my buddy David, who is one of their reps. Um, he was like, he didn't ask me, he just said, I'm sending you a pair of shoes. Um, and I tried them and immediately they were so comfortable.

• 11:38Speaker 01

  Um, so and they're really durable. Um, I've had a pair for over 700 miles and I still wear them and I can't even tell. Wow. Yeah, they're, they're awesome.

• 11:48Cameron Hanes?

  How many races have you run in them?

• 11:53Speaker 01

  In my, I mean, every single one since I did Pax Mountain in November. Um, and that was the first race that I don't know if I was sponsored by them or not yet, but I wore my oh oh fives um, for that race and it was like, all right, well, those rules. Um, the shoes I'm wearing today.

• 12:13Cameron Hanes?

  You've won every time.

• 12:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:15Cameron Hanes?

  Wearing them.

• 12:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:16Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, that's a good streak.

• 12:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's pretty. Yeah. So far, so good.

• 12:19Cameron Hanes?

  It is, is the shoes, the shoe companies that do carry basically the professionalism of the sport for the most part. I mean, you see like I, I maybe it's free trail, but anyway, they have this like industry news.

• 12:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:33Cameron Hanes?

  And where the, it's always like where the athletes are moving, but it's just shoe companies.

• 12:37Speaker 01

  I know.

• 12:37Cameron Hanes?

  It's Hoka signed whoever all, all to or ultra, let them, this person go, they sign here. I don't know what it is. But anyway, it's always shoe. That's where the money is.

• 12:46Speaker 01

  Well, it's funny because mine says, uh, Aravipa team. Cause I had no sponsors really prior to last, or I guess this past year, 2025. And so mine was Aravipa team to Norda. And I just got a cackle.

• 13:00Cameron Hanes?

  Was that, were you on like, was there?

• 13:02Speaker 01

  I was on the Colorado.

• 13:04Cameron Hanes?

  Okay. I didn't know they had like, so they have different state teams, I guess?

• 13:09Speaker 01

  Uh, selected states. Yeah.

• 13:11Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, okay.

• 13:12Speaker 01

  I think there's like 12 states now.

• 13:14Cameron Hanes?

  So for people that don't know, Aravipa, um, Jamil owns it, right? That's his company. So they put on many races throughout the West.

• 13:23Speaker 01

  Including Cogadona.

• 13:25Cameron Hanes?

  Including Cogadona. But Jamil is definitely like a big name in the sport right now and creating a lot of opportunities. So tell me about like, is that how you got on? You know, Jamil or how did that work?

• 13:38Speaker 01

  Uh, I had wanted some sort of team structure because I think ultra running can be very isolating. Um, and I'd heard about the Arab Vip team and you get some like perks and you know, as a, as a full-time working individual, like I needed all the perks I could get. And one of those things, if you're on the Arab Vip team was free race entries to, I think everything other than Cogadona.

• 14:02Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 14:02Speaker 01

  Um, which is helpful.

• 14:04Cameron Hanes?

  It's expensive.

• 14:05Speaker 01

  It's expensive. Oh, my gosh.

• 14:07Cameron Hanes?

  The races are a lot.

• 14:07Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I mean, Cogadona is expensive too, but if you can at least get some training races in there for free. And like, if you're, you know, there's team members and so like, we're all pretty friendly. And so, you know, I could sleep on someone's couch if I need to. And so that saves money. Um, and you know, if I'm sleeping on your couch, then you can get me right to the start and that saves money on a rental car. So it's all dirtbag stuff, but, um, but yeah. And so being on a team and two, you know, it's a good resume builder.

• 14:35Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 14:35Speaker 01

  Um, cause I hadn't, I mean, I'd had no opportunities to put anything on my resume other than just like stacking wins.

• 14:42Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 14:43Speaker 01

  Um, and so I wanted to show that like, look, I'm a team player. I can do teams. Um, so yeah, I applied and then got in. So that was nice.

• 14:52Cameron Hanes?

  It adds like, you shouldn't have to add credibility, but sponsors and marketing, they're always looking for validation for their decision. So this, you're on something that looks like you're sponsored by somebody at least. It's like, okay, it's a start. So it's sometimes that's what it takes. And, um, yeah, it's, you know, you said something about based on results. Cause based on results, you should be, everybody should know who you are, right? So tell me about, then also another, another part there I want to get to, but so you talked about being a dirtbag runner, sleeping on somebody's couch, but you're also, you have a PhD, right?

• 15:30Speaker 01

  I have a doctorate, yeah.

• 15:31Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. So it's like, it is crazy that you've had so much success in education and, and achieved so much there. And then now you're like, still having to think about like sponsorships and money and where am I sleeping? And how expensive races are, but just tell me about like, Do you love, do you love the dirtbag style? Or are you excited for the professionalism of the sport?

• 15:53Speaker 01

  I'm gonna be honest with you, I prefer the dirtbag style. Um, it, I mean,

• 16:00Speaker 01

  so I did a hundred miler, I did cold water recently and um, my full plan was like, to drive down and sleep out of my car. And like, run the race and not have a crew and not have any pacers and all this stuff. And I, I was provided an opportunity to have, I guess, a more professional experience, but I almost like mourned like, oh, well, I can't, I didn't do that.

• 16:28Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 16:28Speaker 01

  Because I really, I mean, that's how I got started and that's what I think, more people are doing that than are doing the opposite thing, which is like, getting a hotel room and having a crew and pacers, because all of that is a luxury. And that's not how I have ever really viewed running. Like, running to me is something that I do myself.

• 16:50Speaker 01

  So yeah, I don't know, I, but I, I, I really like the, um, I wish that more races almost disallowed crew and pacers. Because then it's really like, well, what can the runner do?

• 17:03Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 17:03Speaker 01

  Um, because if you are in charge of thinking about your future at that race, and like, you're in charge of your own nutrition and you're in charge of your pace and you're not just following somebody, you have to pay attention to the course markings and you need to know what to do if you get lost and you have to take care of yourself. Then that's a completely different game that I prefer playing.

• 17:23Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, for sure.

• 17:25Speaker 01

  So.

• 17:25Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I get that, it's a, I think what I want, I want the dirtbag existence with the money of the professionalism.

• 17:34Speaker 01

  Agreed.

• 17:34Cameron Hanes?

  You know, it's like, yeah, just, just, yeah, I, because you are getting eyes on the sport. As we've said a million times, attention is currency. So these companies are making money by putting product on you when you win. Um, but I want them. Okay, good. Stay out of it. Cut that check and then we'll sleep on couches. I've always said like, I like Coca Dona. I don't know who I said this to at one time, but like if you just started off and be like, okay, see you at the finish. Good luck.

• 18:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:00Cameron Hanes?

  You know, that'd be so fun.

• 18:02Speaker 01

  I, so my, cause I, I obviously love that race, but it's also, I mean, you know, it's quite a bit to both execute, train for and recover from.

• 18:13Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 18:13Speaker 01

  Um, so I want to take a break from it. I wanted to take a break in 2026, but that didn't happen. So I want to take a break in 27. Um, but when I come back to it, I want to try to do it. I haven't decided if I want to go full, no crew, no Pacers, but I don't want Pacers.

• 18:30Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 18:30Speaker 01

  When I do it again, because I feel like Pacers for me, I don't, I don't really ever use them in hundred milers. Um, and like, I don't, I don't know. I, I really only use them if it's like a safety issue or if like, I don't know what to expect. But Coca Dona now, it'll be my fourth time doing it.

• 18:48Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 18:48Speaker 01

  Eventually. And like, I should know what to expect by four times in. So I think, I think it's time to try to see like, okay, well, what can I do by myself?

• 18:56Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm. Yeah.

• 18:58Speaker 01

  I think that would be, that would be, that would make it a little bit more different, I guess.

• 19:03Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I, you know, I think that's cool. I mean, I'm not, I don't want to throw any shade on any race director or races because it's so organized. Cause that race is amazing as far as the support and the live stream. Everybody always talks about the live stream. Cause Jamel has kind of, that's, I think that's his biggest, um, feather in his cap as far as opening up what we do to more people. Because they can view that live stream. So he deserves a lot of credit, but I, yeah, I love, I love how cool it is. I love all the aid stations, all the excitement of Whiskey Row and, and Fane Ranch, all that stuff. So, but. It would be fun just to be like, okay, you're on your own.

• 19:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:45Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I know it's not for safety because people do get into bad situations over that much time in in those conditions. It could be dangerous, too.

• 19:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:55Cameron Hanes?

  So I understand.

• 19:57Speaker 01

  I I have now, and if the stakes, because I I think that the stakes are probably high this year for me personally, like, you know, three Pete, I get it. So the stakes for me feel a little bit higher. So I do feel like I want that extra support. But yeah, when I come back for, I mean, I really want to get that thousand mile buckle at some point.

• 20:18Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 20:18Speaker 01

  Um, and when that happens, I think for me, what would feel meaningful is if I did it myself.

• 20:23Cameron Hanes?

  That'd be sick.

• 20:24Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I'll have to talk to Andy Glaze because I think he usually does it without anything.

• 20:29Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 20:29Speaker 01

  And it's like, I don't even, I mean, I've I've written quite extensively about like how to run a multi-day race. And in there, I even say like, I don't know how you do this without crew and pacers. So we're just going to assume that you have them.

• 20:41Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 20:41Speaker 01

  And now it's like, well, crap, if I do that, then I'm gonna have to learn. But that to me is the fun part of the sport is that if you're not learning something, then like, you're not getting better.

• 20:53Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 20:53Speaker 01

  Um, and so, yeah, that feels like the logical, at least with that race, that feels like the logical next step is like, all right, we'll take away support and see what you do.

• 21:00Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, because I did, I've heard you on other podcasts talk about you, like, you take a lot of water, a lot of stuff usually in your pack. Like, you're usually, you're used to having weight.

• 21:10Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 21:10Cameron Hanes?

  Anyway.

• 21:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:11Cameron Hanes?

  Some people aren't.

• 21:12Speaker 01

  I know. It's wild to me.

• 21:13Cameron Hanes?

  Right. But you're, for whatever reason, you're durable on that and tough on that because you're light. So that all that extra weight is a greater percentage of your body weight.

• 21:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:25Cameron Hanes?

  But you're still, you know, no factor, I guess.

• 21:28Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, again, when I started running, I We did not ever have a support crew, I guess. And so I, I would prefer to just, I remember I did drop bags for the first time this year at High Lonesome. And it was only at the behest of everybody telling me, oh, like you need these, you need these. And I, I think I used the first two. And I just kind of like shuffled through them. And I was like, I don't think I need any of this stuff, actually. And so I wound up just like grabbing stuff from the aid stations and like shoving it in my pack. And like, I just did basically what I thought I was gonna do the whole time, which is carry all my stuff on me. I'd rather have my stuff on me. Um, there's

• 22:10Speaker 01

  required gear for, I think it's like a 30 mile section of that course. And I forgot to take it out of my pack and put it in my drop bag. Um, so I just carried an extra like couple pounds just the, but I don't know. I mean, like, whatever. Yeah, you know, I, well, I don't even know if it's, I think I'm mostly just dumb, but, because I just like forget to, I forget to make it easy on myself. Um, which I think is fine. Like, I don't know. I think that's fine. I haven't had any issues yet. So, yeah.

• 22:38Cameron Hanes?

  You're doing great. It's a, but yeah, so that, that just reminds me also, like, tell me about how this running journey started. I think, I don't know if I've, maybe I've heard it, but I can't remember. But where did this gift of running develop?

• 22:51Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I, I mean, growing up, I always did sports, but it was kind of one of those things where I had to have a ball in front of me in order to enjoy running. Cause girl, I mean, I grew up in the southeast and I was overweight and I had a lot of confidence issues surrounding that. Um, and then when I was a senior in high school, I developed an eating disorder. And part of the way that I controlled what I looked like was I used exercise and particularly cardio. Um, and despite the fact that I was not properly fueling, I realized that I could just, and I enjoyed, actually, for like more reasons than just like as a method of control, I enjoyed going for a really long time doing cardiovascular exercise. Like I could do three hours and like

• 23:35Speaker 01

  not even sweat or feel tired. Um, and so obviously I got myself better with the help, yeah, with the help of rehab. Um, a couple of times. And, but when I, I remember when I got back to like real life, the thing that I mourned the loss of, because in rehab, they, they very much like structure your day in ways that are I guess like ge- generically healthy, um, but the thing that I'm more in the loss of the most was like getting out there and running.

• 24:08Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 24:08Speaker 01

  Um, and so I slowly kind of started to add those things back in, um, and then I very rapidly added those things back in because I, I, I don't know, I just, I really loved, running has always made me feel powerful.

• 24:22Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 24:23Speaker 01

  And I think when you develop an eating disorder, the thing that you usually are trying to gain back is power. Um, because for whatever reason, you're, you don't feel like your life is in control and running for me makes me feel controlled.

• 24:36Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 24:36Speaker 01

  Um, so I, and then it's funny because like over time, you know, obviously there was some like re- relapse, relapse is a heavy word, but I'm going to use it. So I had some like, I had some relapses and like had to kind of fix my stuff and my, but my attitude towards running was always like, I love this and I'm going to figure out how I can do this safely.

• 24:58Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 24:58Speaker 01

  Um, and so, I mean, for me, running saved my life a billion times because you have to be healthy in order to do what I'm doing.

• 25:06Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 25:07Speaker 01

  And that's my parents, obviously I gave them probably some PTSD.

• 25:10Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 25:11Speaker 01

  Over the years, um, but I remember one time telling my mom, like, Mom, I can't win hundred milers if I'm not feeling properly and I can't, I can't do the things that I'm doing if I'm starving myself and I'm not taking care of myself.

• 25:23Cameron Hanes?

  Were they worried about you still from?

• 25:26Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 25:26Cameron Hanes?

  So.

• 25:27Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 25:28Cameron Hanes?

  Cause they would think that, I guess a parent might think that, well, this is just another form.

• 25:32Speaker 01

  It's extreme.

• 25:33Cameron Hanes?

  Of addiction.

• 25:34Speaker 01

  Right.

• 25:34Cameron Hanes?

  You know?

• 25:34Speaker 01

  I mean, perhaps, but this.

• 25:36Cameron Hanes?

  It probably is, but it's healthier, it's more healthy for sure.

• 25:38Speaker 01

  Exactly. Like if you're going to choose something to be addicted to, like, at least this one encourages me to take care of myself. Like I have to be healthy.

• 25:47Cameron Hanes?

  Just like you said with your diet.

• 25:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:49Cameron Hanes?

  You can't be malnourished and perform.

• 25:52Speaker 01

  No.

• 25:52Cameron Hanes?

  So, yeah, your mom.

• 25:53Speaker 01

  You can't do it for as long as I have.

• 25:55Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, right.

• 25:55Speaker 01

  Certainly.

• 25:56Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 25:56Speaker 01

  Cause I mean, I've been doing, I've now been running since 2009, um. And I'm only thirty four. So that's, I mean, I think I'm, I think I'm at that threshold of like over half my life now has been doing this. And if I were, if I were doing it the same way I was in two thousand nine, then I, I would not be here. That's for sure.

• 26:16Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 26:16Speaker 01

  Um, so yeah, I mean, for me, running is the, the purest form of self-care that I can give myself.

• 26:23Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 26:23Speaker 01

  Um, so I, I mean, I love it. I mean, it's, it's.

• 26:26Cameron Hanes?

  I can tell.

• 26:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's dope.

• 26:29Cameron Hanes?

  It's so fun. You definitely have a, like a zest for life. I mean, always in a good mood, um, always ready to work and, and do whatever. It's so fun.

• 26:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:39Cameron Hanes?

  It's.

• 26:39Speaker 01

  Well, thanks.

• 26:40Cameron Hanes?

  You're a fun person.

• 26:40Speaker 01

  I like to try. I mean, I might not be successful at everything, but I'm gonna try it.

• 26:44Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, you're down for anything. Um, including shooting a bow, but we'll get to that.

• 26:49Speaker 01

  Oh, that was so much fun. That was so much fun.

• 26:52Cameron Hanes?

  I have it sitting right here. Um, yeah. So were you, like, were you always good at running? I mean, when did the, when did the talent show itself?

• 27:00Speaker 01

  I, well, I started with marathon. Well, I started with half marathons and I was actually pretty, and again, this is the southeast, so the pool of people actually doing those things is not large.

• 27:10Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 27:11Speaker 01

  Um, but in the southeast, so I started with half marathons and I was pretty good at those. My first marathon I ran at age eighteen, I think, and it was about a three forty-five, which like, that's not bad, considering I didn't know what I was doing.

• 27:26Cameron Hanes?

  No, that's, that's good.

• 27:27Speaker 01

  I mean, that's a Boston qualifier. In fact, I didn't Boston qualify again until twenty twenty or twenty fifteen, I think. Um, but yeah, and so to me, I wasn't, I didn't even know what being good was, but I realized that I could do multiple marathons in a month. Like, I would probably do three marathons in a month, on top of running almost every day.

• 27:51Cameron Hanes?

  Was it like local back there, kind of?

• 27:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, or like, you know, the Publix Georgia Marathon, or, you know, the Mercedes Birmingham Marathon, that kind of stuff. And I, I was never gonna win those and I wasn't even gonna come close to those, but I could finish those and not feel dead.

• 28:04Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 28:05Speaker 01

  Um, and that to me felt like a victory.

• 28:08Cameron Hanes?

  And you enjoyed probably the race environment, the excitement.

• 28:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I enjoyed doing it with others. Um, and in those types of, like, especially big city marathons, I mean, there's ten thousand people. And so I'm just like, yeah. Kind of like high fiving everybody all the time and like you meet people um at my first marathon I did meet a trail runner who encouraged me to like try the trail marathons um so that was a little harder yeah cause it just didn't for me it was all about efficiency like trail running isn't efficient because I was an hour slower at my first trail marathon than I was at my marathons yeah um and so I hated it for a while but um but yeah and so I I was I guess I was good I was good enough at marathons to keep me coming back um

• 28:57Speaker 01

  but I'm I'm trying to think

• 29:00Speaker 01

  I mean I really wasn't even good at 50 milers when I first did them I guess when I when I got into the fixed time racing which is like a 12 hour or 24 hour usually around like a closed course so like a mile ish um I was really good at those

• 29:15Cameron Hanes?

  really

• 29:15Speaker 01

  I was really good

• 29:16Cameron Hanes?

  When did you first start with for an ultra was that a 50k or was it a timed okay

• 29:21Speaker 01

  Yeah I did I did 50 Ks and then I jumped into I think six hour racing um I only did a couple of those and then I did 50 milers and then 12 hour racing

• 29:30Cameron Hanes?

  And then you started to do good at the 12 hour like

• 29:33Speaker 01

  And then I did a 24

• 29:34Cameron Hanes?

  Okay

• 29:35Speaker 01

  And that was kind of when I was like well I want to do 100 miler but I have no idea how to do this because the like I don't even think there was Strava back then um and so that felt like something in which I could control as many variables as possible um so I had all my nutrition I would see it once a mile you know that's pretty good yeah and if I needed to stop I could do that at any time

• 29:57Cameron Hanes?

  Right

• 29:57Speaker 01

  safely not in the middle of the woods

• 30:00Cameron Hanes?

  That's right

• 30:00Speaker 01

  Um and yeah I was able to do I think my first I mean again and this is around a track so use that for what you want but um I think my first 100 I did well under 24 hours

• 30:11Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm that's good yeah that that would be a good sign or a good indicator hey we got something here

• 30:17Speaker 01

  Yeah and I mean I was trashed but

• 30:20Cameron Hanes?

  Did you get celebrated there I mean were people saying like how amazed they were

• 30:23Speaker 01

  I mean the race director is really pumped

• 30:25Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah

• 30:25Speaker 01

  Yeah cause I think she was and she was trying to get me to try to go for the course record which I think at the time was like 115 and 24 hours um And I was like, I'm good. I don't need to do that. I was just happy. I think I, I maybe wound up like tying it or something.

• 30:40Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 30:41Speaker 01

  But yeah, I was, I, my only goal was just like a hundred miles and anything else I did was going to be bonus.

• 30:46Cameron Hanes?

  Right. Yeah.

• 30:47Speaker 01

  But then I remember, you know, over time I got into the trail scene and moved out west to Seattle and um, in twenty, I think it was eighteen or nineteen, I did the I am tough one hundred over in Idaho and I won that pretty, and I, that still is one of my favorite performances that I've ever done. And that was when I was like, huh. I might be good at this.

• 31:12Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 31:12Speaker 01

  And like, I had a lot of positive feedback.

• 31:14Cameron Hanes?

  Is that a really, is that a hard one?

• 31:16Speaker 01

  It's pretty remote.

• 31:18Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 31:18Speaker 01

  I, I mean,

• 31:19Cameron Hanes?

  You've never done it, but I've heard about it.

• 31:21Speaker 01

  Hard is pretty subjective. I, I didn't think it was like, very hard, but then again, I'm broken fundamentally. So.

• 31:32Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 31:33Speaker 01

  Um, I mean, it's,

• 31:34Cameron Hanes?

  Don't put too much into that.

• 31:35Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's, I mean, it's a hundred and eight miles. Parts of it were really challenging because it was, I think it was the first trail hundred that I'd ever done. Um, I'd done a, I think it was a twelve and a half looped trail hundred um, in Washington, but that was a, I mean, it was like essentially a point to point. Um, and it was really remote and it was long. I knew it was over a hundred miles, but I didn't know how long. And so I remember I was like, I was tracking it on my phone, like the distance and I was at a hundred and four miles and I was like, when are we done? Like, how long is this?

• 32:08Cameron Hanes?

  We're four miles past where I'm supposed to be done. Yeah.

• 32:11Speaker 01

  Yeah. Um, and I, yeah, I would, I would actually love to go back and do that race again, because I was twenty four oh four.

• 32:18Cameron Hanes?

  Ooh.

• 32:19Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I didn't, I mean, I had no idea, but like twenty four oh four, are you kidding me?

• 32:23Cameron Hanes?

  Now you know, you gotta finish in before the day.

• 32:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:27Cameron Hanes?

  We gotta get twenty three something.

• 32:28Speaker 01

  And even, I mean, it's a hundred and eight miles. So that's,

• 32:30Cameron Hanes?

  I know.

• 32:31Speaker 01

  And I think it's got, I mean, sixteen to eighteen thousand feet of climbing. Like, it's not flat.

• 32:36Cameron Hanes?

  No.

• 32:36Speaker 01

  And it's really, it's really remote.

• 32:38Cameron Hanes?

  You're freaking good. And that was in twenty eighteen or nineteen, you said?

• 32:41Speaker 01

  Something like that. Yeah. And then I, So that was when I guess that was my first mountain race and that that is what I love. I love mountain racing. Now I'll do anything because running is running.

• 32:54Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 32:54Speaker 01

  Um, and I love all of it. I love fixed time. I love roads. I love this burrito league. Like it's all awesome. Um, but mountains are where I feel like I enjoy that the most.

• 33:08Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. And is it the racing or just being in the mountains?

• 33:14Cameron Hanes?

  Probably both for different reasons that different, because there's something about just being with somebody cool that you like spending time with, being in the mountains and seeing just amazing things. But then there's also something about pushing yourself in the test.

• 33:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:27Cameron Hanes?

  So it's like, that's a stupid question to ask what you like most. Cause I, you like, you like them both for different, completely different reasons.

• 33:34Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I mean, I love, I love running by myself because again, there's that like, I feel powerful out here. Because it feels like I'm not supposed to be here. Um, and also the mountains don't care about you. Um, and so it really is like, well, how well did you prepare for this moment? Um, I'd imagine, I, I've never been hunting, but obviously you have, and I'd imagine it feels very similar is like the environment doesn't care what you want.

• 34:00Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 34:01Speaker 01

  And the environment really doesn't care to keep you safe.

• 34:03Cameron Hanes?

  No.

• 34:03Speaker 01

  Um, you are in charge of your own safety and any mistake that you make, you own and you have consequences for. Um, and I, I like that because I think especially into, I mean, I'm very privileged, obviously. I'm a white, middle-class person. Like I get it.

• 34:21Cameron Hanes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 34:21Speaker 01

  Um, so my life by and large is quite easy. Um, and I don't have a lot of opportunity for like things to be hard.

• 34:30Cameron Hanes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 34:30Speaker 01

  Um, so I, I'm fortunate enough that I get to choose my hard and that makes. Things in my life that are challenging, I now have practice for.

• 34:40Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 34:40Speaker 01

  Because if my life was constantly easy and then suddenly like something happens.

• 34:44Cameron Hanes?

  It's devastating.

• 34:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, like that's lame. Like I don't want, I don't want to be somebody who falls apart when life gets hard.

• 34:50Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 34:51Speaker 01

  Um, so this allows me an opportunity to like, alright, life's not fair. And like, you have to deal with that.

• 34:58Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 34:58Speaker 01

  Um, so yeah, I, I appreciate what mountains are able to do for me in that regard.

• 35:04Cameron Hanes?

  I get that too. It's like, uh, I don't know. I mean, I get exactly what you're saying because like, I was thinking, I can't remember what day it was now, but I guess Saturday. We were running, it's like I said, I like this one stretch because I go fast or whatever. But there's something like, it's not a race, it wasn't, but it was running with you and it's like running fast. There's something like pushing hard and running. It's just like that feeling. I don't know what it is, but if you could bottle it, it would be very valuable.

• 35:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:33Cameron Hanes?

  Just like that feeling, I think I mentioned this to you later. It wasn't during that second, but, um, I, I don't feel more capable than when I can run fast to the mountains.

• 35:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:43Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, I feel like I'm whatever.

• 35:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, it just, to me, it feels like, I mean, the like sapiens are bipedal and we are supposed to be good in endurance. And so for me, running has always felt like breathing. Like it just feels very natural for me to do this. And it, it kinda, it grounds me to the, my surroundings and my environment. And it makes me a part of those things in ways that like, going to work and being on a computer for 24 hours a day, like that's not natural. And it doesn't feel natural to me either. But like, running in the mountains and trying not to die, that feels pretty natural to me. So.

• 36:22Cameron Hanes?

  People have been doing that a long time.

• 36:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, since the dawn of time, man has been trying not to die in nature.

• 36:28Cameron Hanes?

  That's right. Well, and, and that, that too, uh, reminds me of like when you're shooting a bow. Um, I, I mentioned this on the caption, I think I put up, but it's like, it looked like you've been doing it forever. And you know, yours, your. I mean, your accuracy, the results were like you were, you know, very comfortable doing it. But we have been hunting forever. So when that feels familiar to somebody who's never done it, it's because it's in our DNA. We, we wouldn't be here without archers, hunters, hunting, gatherers, whatever. And so there's a reason why that feels like, oh, I'm supposed to do this. So tell me about, yeah, learning to shoot a bow.

• 37:07Speaker 01

  Oh, my gosh, that was so cool. Yeah, I don't, I don't, because obviously, like, I got quite emotional while we were there, for a lot of reasons, for a lot of reasons.

• 37:16Cameron Hanes?

  That is beautiful.

• 37:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, but um, I'm probably, I'm gonna try not to cry now, but um, I don't know, it's just, it, that was, it was so nice because running also has this unique property for me that I, especially when you're out on the mountains, you can only focus on what you're doing right now. Like, you can't really think about your work, or like, what you have to do later, or, I don't know, you, you really, the second you're not focused on the task at hand is when you trip.

• 37:46Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 37:47Speaker 01

  And like, or you've, I don't know, like, you be in your head on a branch or something, like, if you're not, if you're not paying attention, then there's an immediate, yeah, an immediate consequence. And, I don't know, it's, archery, I guess, feels very comparable in that way, like, you, you're doing a process, and you get a result, and you have to focus, or you're not gonna get a good result.

• 38:13Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 38:14Speaker 01

  Um, so yeah, I'm actually really excited to practice that, because I, I, I think it scratches the same itch for me that maybe running does, is like, alright, I have like a outlet for focus, like, I get to practice focus, because running often is like practicing focus.

• 38:30Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, right. Especially coming down a mountain, every step.

• 38:34Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 38:34Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, you, you, one wrong step, you might break, you broke your ankle, you might break your foot, you might break your... Shoulder if you fall. I mean, it's like you have to be very intentionally focused on every step. Um, and as you said, archery is like that, but what, what did you enjoy most about it other than so that part? Yes. But did you ever see yourself pulling a bow back and firing arrows at a target? Did you ever think that was gonna happen?

• 38:59Speaker 01

  No, I didn't even, I, yeah, it's no, never. I have a buddy who is really into archery and he has, I think he's been doing it now for about like four years, maybe. And I remember when he got into it, just being like, wow, what a weird thing to get into. But like, no, I get it. I totally get it. It's, it's just, it kind of makes everything else. And running is the same. Like it makes everything else, you have to make everything else quiet in order for it to work.

• 39:25Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 39:25Speaker 01

  Um, and that's a, that's a tough, it's a tough skill, especially today with so much social media and so many things that demand our attention all at the same time. Like it's a, it's a tough skill to focus. And so anything that I can do to practice being present, like is a worthwhile thing to do. So.

• 39:45Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, no, it's, and that's what I said about it. It's like, it's almost therapeutic in that way is you have to be so, you know, focused on what we're doing. But tell me about like, even just walking in the bow rack. It's a whole different world for people who don't understand hunting or haven't been around or immersed in it. You know, basically we've, we grew up doing this for, for our whole lives, but for somebody new walking into a bow shop, what was that like? What was that like?

• 40:08Speaker 01

  I was like, oh, the animals are staring at me. I don't know. It felt a little intimidating, but I think anytime you try something new, it's a little intimidating because I want to be good at the things that I try. Um, I think everybody does. Um, and I felt very much like fish out of water. Cause I also know that my upper body strength, as you know, is not impressive. Um, so I was really worried that like, I wasn't even going to be able to like, hold the thing. Yeah. Um, but honestly, I mean, I think a lot of that too is like props to Wayne.

• 40:37Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 40:38Speaker 01

  Um, cause he's a, he's a really, yeah, he's like a very patient teacher and he does not mind telling you over and over like, nope, four fingers. Like you gotta put all of them up there. Um, so yeah, that was, I don't know. I, I think the thing that just got me. Okay, um, so the thing that got me the most while I was there was just like the like gratitude for the opportunity, I think. Um, because I remember I was like, I was talking to you and I was, cause I immediately was like, oh no, I love this. Like, and I remember I was talking to you about like, well, how much does this cost? Like, how much does a bow cost? Cause like in my mind, I'm like, oh, I gotta do this. I gotta buy one of these.

• 41:22Speaker 01

  Cause like I had no idea that I just got a bow and then you're like, well, this is yours. Um, and that's, I don't know. I mean, I just, I think that that's very kind. Um, and I was, I

• 41:38Speaker 01

  for whatever reason, I've been taught to not expect kindness from people. And yeah, so it just, I was extremely grateful for,

• 41:51Speaker 01

  yeah, just the whole thing. I mean, it was, it was very, it was very cool to like, enjoy doing something and then be like, oh no, but like this is yours to enjoy. Um, that's a really rare thing to have today, I think.

• 42:04Cameron Hanes?

  Have you not, that hasn't happened in life much?

• 42:07Speaker 01

  I mean, God, I've been trying to get sponsored for five years. So no, I mean, I, I don't think

• 42:12Cameron Hanes?

  Had to grind for everything.

• 42:13Speaker 01

  Right. And so just to be given something. Um, and that's something that I really like doing because I think like to whom much is given, like much is expected. And to me, it's

• 42:25Speaker 01

  what I have, I like to share. Um, but I don't think that that's a quality that a lot of people have. And you don't have to share what you get.

• 42:36Speaker 01

  So yeah, to like find a person who's just like, oh yeah, no, this is yours. Like, of course this is yours. Um, is just, it, it's always, it's always startling. Because it's so much the antithesis of what today's society is all about with like capitalism and consumerism and like this is mine and deserving stuff like, I don't know.

• 42:56Cameron Hanes?

  Right. No, I, I get what you're saying. It's a

• 43:00Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I mean, but in my, in my opinion, you deserve all of it.

• 43:06Speaker 01

  Well, thank you.

• 43:07Cameron Hanes?

  You deserve all of it and more because you have been sacrificed. You do, you have the talent, you have the ability, you've put in the time. So I understand that the sponsorships are frustrating because you're like, what else do I need to do? I wanted, I love doing this so much and I know I can impact people, but to get the opportunity is hard. So like your, your perspective is so refreshing because it is different, you know, and then to see that, I mean, so genuine, the genuine emotion on, you know, and people say all the time, it's kind of cliche, it's better to give than receive. And I don't even know if, but you are the perfect example of why that cliche exists because anybody

• 43:50Cameron Hanes?

  who's ever received whatever, but to see you accept or get a bow and be impacted like this, this is like, that's, that's pure human interaction.

• 44:00Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, um, Janina, that was the chick, right?

• 44:04Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 44:05Speaker 01

  Okay. So yeah, I mean, she said something, she said a lot of things that I think are just so profound. But one of the things that she said is the people above you will never punch down.

• 44:16Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 44:17Speaker 01

  And yeah, I just think, I mean, I don't know, I am not on the top of many things, but it does feel a lot of the time like life punches downwards.

• 44:28Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 44:29Speaker 01

  And so anytime somebody is like, no, like, come on up. It's just, I mean, that's such a refreshing.

• 44:35Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 44:35Speaker 01

  Yeah. I, I'm always like impacted by moments where it's like, you're helping me right now?

• 44:40Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 44:41Speaker 01

  Like even getting a sponsorship, like talking to Precision, talking to Nortah, Belay, anybody, like I'm always just profoundly affected when someone's like, no, I'm here to help you.

• 44:51Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 44:51Speaker 01

  Because that's what I love doing. I love like I rise, we rise kind of stuff.

• 44:57Cameron Hanes?

  Well, you're in healthcare. I mean,

• 44:59Speaker 01

  True.

• 44:59Cameron Hanes?

  It's, it's the, that's, it must be important to you.

• 45:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:03Cameron Hanes?

  If you wanted to help people get healthy.

• 45:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:06Cameron Hanes?

  And help them. So yeah, it's, I don't know. I just, I just love, I mean, it just.

• 45:13Cameron Hanes?

  I don't know.

• 45:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was, that was a, I, I don't, I had no idea that I was, cause I remember like, he was going through and he was tweaking all the things and I was like, why are you tweaking all these things?

• 45:23Cameron Hanes?

  Doing all this just for, just for me to practice?

• 45:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, I didn't know.

• 45:28Cameron Hanes?

  I, I should have explained that better. I thought.

• 45:30Speaker 01

  No, I, I would change nothing, moving forward, change nothing. I'm spoiling the, uh, story for those people who don't know that you get a bow, but, um.

• 45:38Cameron Hanes?

  But it, it was like, I was just so impressed also, but aside from that, which was a beautiful moment, just seeing you just be so genuinely impacted. But, um, aside from that, your shooting was incredible.

• 45:50Speaker 01

  Well, teaching is.

• 45:51Cameron Hanes?

  You are, you are so good. And it, there is like a process of learning. Everybody's kind of intimidated by the bow and firing arrows down range. And you kind of keep your head away from the string and all this, but you were like so good at it. I always, man.

• 46:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:06Cameron Hanes?

  It's, it's, you know, we have all sorts of different people in here, athletes, especially women athletes take instruction very well. Guys, a lot of times are like, oh yeah, yeah, I got it. I got it. I got it. I got it figured out. Where you like listened and like listened to Wayne so perfectly and did everything perfect. And then the results were the results, which was incredible.

• 46:25Speaker 01

  Shocking.

• 46:25Cameron Hanes?

  But yeah.

• 46:26Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, I'm, I think one thing that I like about myself is I'm very confident in things that I don't know. Like, oh, I have no idea how to shoot a bow. Like, please tell me how to do this and I'm gonna try my best.

• 46:39Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 46:39Speaker 01

  Um, I think, oh, I can't, I just read about this. It's like a philosophical and like psychological thing, but it's called amount of stupidity. It's where like you learn just enough to think that you know stuff, um, but actually you don't know anything. And then there's like the valley of despair where you're like, I don't know anything. Oh my gosh. And I feel like I perpetually almost live in the valley of despair where it's just like, oh my God, I don't know anything. So if I meet somebody who is obviously an expert at something, like I have no issues listening to that person.

• 47:13Cameron Hanes?

  Well, you did a great job.

• 47:14Speaker 01

  Yeah. No, he was, I mean, he was a really. Wonderful teacher and like never, I learned a lot from him because like never made me feel bad for making the same mistake over and over. It's just like, no, I'm just gonna tell you to do this again. And like, of course you don't know how to do this. You've never done this before. There was just like no judgment. It was, it was an awesome experience. I was really nervous about it because I thought, like, I don't know, what if I suck?

• 47:37Cameron Hanes?

  Well, I think you, you are kind of self-conscious a little bit about your upper body strength, you know, because you just run so much. So it's like that you brought that up a couple of times. And I'm like, oh no, we'll, we'll get it figured out. We get justice bow. But you were strong. I mean, and also even lifting. I mean, you are not weak.

• 47:55Speaker 01

  That is very.

• 47:56Cameron Hanes?

  You are not weak. So it's like, you might be slight because that's what the sport requires is you have to be, you know, lean and things like that to perform at the highest level. But you are strong. So don't, don't ever believe otherwise.

• 48:11Speaker 01

  I'm excited that I got to stand on that Swiss ball. That I'm shocked I could do that.

• 48:16Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. So I was like, if we talk about just the, the totality of our four days here. So you came in Friday, that was fun. We went to dinner, kind of got, made a plan for Saturday. Saturday was Spike Camp. And there's a bunch of people over there, amazing people.

• 48:31Speaker 01

  That was awesome.

• 48:32Cameron Hanes?

  It's, it's just, you know, last year was the first year of it, but I wanted to make sure we got over there and enjoyed that too, but also get in a bunch of miles. So we had a great run on Saturdays, 31 miles, but saw Janina, talk to her, which is

• 48:48Speaker 01

  Gangster woman.

• 48:49Cameron Hanes?

  I'm gonna have her on here too. But I, I like, I'm so, you know, I'm addicted to winners and outliers and learning from people like that have ascended. And so talked to her over there. She's, you know, the first female to make it through Ranger School. She's battling cancer. She's just an amazing person. And I'm like, hey, do you want to come over for dinner tonight?

• 49:10Speaker 01

  I love that you offered that, by the way, because that's exactly the kind of stuff that I'm like, oh yeah, come over.

• 49:16Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. I don't think about, oh, it's a hassle or we don't have this or that, or are we already? I don't care. I just like, no, you're a badass. I love badasses. So yeah, she came over, but we, that day, because, you know, Taylor had this vision of Spike Camp of what he wanted. And then also a big part of it, um, yet, or on Saturday was to give back to addiction. You know, he struggled with addiction and one of his sponsors is Recovery Strong.

• 49:43Cameron Hanes?

  And um, so they were able to give like over $3,000 to Serenity Lane, which is an addiction treatment center here. My stepdad went through it. I think my dad probably went through it, you know, a few times. And it's like, um, they've helped a lot of people in the community. And so to be able to give, I know that was a huge win for Taylor over there to give, but also mostly it's just the community of that, that group of humanity out there. You don't, you couldn't find a better, better circumstance or situation or environment.

• 50:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:17Cameron Hanes?

  It was awesome.

• 50:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, everybody there was, I was like shocked at how cohesive the community was there, I think. I don't, and to me, community is the best part of trail running.

• 50:31Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 50:31Speaker 01

  Um, and you know, obviously I know there's so many ways today to be divided. Um, so when we can all get together and do a hard thing, I, I don't know. I think that's really cool.

• 50:45Cameron Hanes?

  Well, one thing I think that I, I'm, um, I love about you specifically is like when people would say, hi Rachel, or would recognize you, that still is to like the words you say, but also like how you, you know, interpret that. It feels like you're shocked every time.

• 51:08Speaker 01

  I'm shocked every time. Yeah, I'm shocked every time.

• 51:10Cameron Hanes?

  But a lot of people know you and a lot of people are inspired by you, inspired by you. And then we'd see people up and down Piscatah doing their repeats because that's what the 12-hour spike camp is. But they're seeing you and you're, you're lifting them up. You're giving them, um, more power than they had because you just impact people. And it's your smile, it's your look, it's your, um, your attitude. And so. I know, I know it seems shocking to you that you have this type of impact, but I mean, you're special.

• 51:42Speaker 01

  Ah.

• 51:43Cameron Hanes?

  And, uh, and, and you make a difference and you're impacting communities and people when you're not around them, they're thinking about like, oh, that, that, that girl, man, she's, you know, she's badass. I've met her. I met her. You met her? Yeah. And they got stories back home. And so don't, don't forget that. You, you are a special athlete.

• 52:02Speaker 01

  Well, thanks.

• 52:03Cameron Hanes?

  And it's not just an athlete because we, we celebrate athleticism with wins and podiums and things like that. But, but more than that, you're a special human and you're impacting people. You're making a positive difference on this world. And I just want you, you know, I saw it firsthand all for four days we spent together. And, uh, it's, it's rare, but it's, you know, it's what you deserve. And so that's why I like seeing you have the success.

• 52:27Speaker 01

  Well, thank you. Yeah. It was, it was definitely the, my favorite interaction of the entire day was the woman who was like, oh, my dog wants to like say hi to you. Like, let, let your dog, come pet my dog. Yeah, that was, yeah, I am always, I think it's, I've, I've spent so long going under the radar that that to me is just like, oh, sick.

• 52:46Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 52:46Speaker 01

  Like I don't, I don't even expect anything else. And so, yeah, when people do, um, come up to me and they're like, oh, do you mind if I take a picture? I'm just like, what is this? Like, how did my life get here? Like when I started running, I didn't even know professional ultra running was a thing. I don't, I don't know if it was. I mean, I guess it must've been because Scott Jerick exists, but, um, but I certainly didn't, I didn't even know about it, let alone think that this was something I could do.

• 53:11Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 53:11Speaker 01

  Um, so yeah, I, I feel like over the last probably four months, I would say, I just, I constantly have to pinch myself because it doesn't feel like this is real.

• 53:22Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 53:22Speaker 01

  Um, like I'm sitting here with Cam Haynes. Like this is insane to me.

• 53:26Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Well, you deserve it. Um, so that day we did, we did, I think 31 miles, your, your, well.

• 53:36Cameron Hanes?

  We're not gonna throw any shade, but your watch did go dead.

• 53:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's fine. Well, I have another one.

• 53:42Cameron Hanes?

  That's your fault, I guess.

• 53:43Speaker 01

  That's a user error.

• 53:45Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, right.

• 53:45Speaker 01

  Well, I didn't charge it, but I think it, I don't know, whatever. I don't know what happened. It's fine.

• 53:49Cameron Hanes?

  We did thirty-one miles. We saw a bunch of cool people. We, uh, what was it, like five thousand feet of gain? Pretty good day.

• 53:57Speaker 01

  Five and a half. The half matters.

• 53:59Cameron Hanes?

  Okay, okay.

• 54:00Speaker 01

  I've been doing flat sidewalks, so the half matters.

• 54:02Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, for sure. The Brita League, yeah, doesn't get your, your vert training, does it? But, uh, so to me, that felt like, for me, that's a big day, like, right, especially this time of year. You know, that's a good effort, five thousand feet of gain, thirty-one miles. We ran, you know, some decent paces in there, but to me, that felt like a great training day.

• 54:22Speaker 01

  Agreed, yeah. I mean, I.

• 54:24Cameron Hanes?

  You were a week off of a hundred miler, though.

• 54:26Speaker 01

  I know. That was hard. I was, I was pretty pleased with how much I was able to not get dropped.

• 54:33Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, you did great.

• 54:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:34Cameron Hanes?

  You're fast, dude.

• 54:35Speaker 01

  I mean, look who's talking. But, yeah, I was, that was, that was fun. That's exactly the kind of days that I would like to have every day.

• 54:43Cameron Hanes?

  Really?

• 54:43Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, maybe not going at like a five-twenty pace, but, uh, but out in the mountains and like high-fiving people and stuff. Yeah, that's, I mean, I could do that every day.

• 54:51Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, I just loved, and everybody was so, you know, immersed in the moment. You know, they just, we're on top of the mountain, they're getting their little ducks, we're taking photos.

• 55:01Speaker 01

  I know, I liked the ducks.

• 55:02Cameron Hanes?

  Then back and, back and forth, up and down, up and down. Some of them went, I think the, the winners this year was, was it nineteen?

• 55:09Speaker 01

  Nineteen.

• 55:09Cameron Hanes?

  Nineteen.

• 55:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, nineteen men and eighteen women.

• 55:12Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, Ashley got eighteen, uh, yeah, I mean, that's impressive because that is nineteen thousand feet of gain.

• 55:20Speaker 01

  I know. I really want to do it next year.

• 55:22Cameron Hanes?

  Dude, nineteen, how, what's the most gain you've got in a day, do you think? Cause races, I guess, would have thirty.

• 55:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, I mean, I've, I don't know if I've, well, okay, outside of the two hundred space, I don't know if I've done a hundred mileer that has thirty. The most.

• 55:37Cameron Hanes?

  No, not thirty. Crazy, Crazy Mountain has quite a bit.

• 55:40Speaker 01

  I think it's twenty-four.

• 55:41Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 55:42Speaker 01

  I'm I'm pretty well versed in the twenty four to the twenty one to twenty four. I'm really well versed in twenty four or yeah, twenty four to twenty eight is.

• 55:52Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 55:53Speaker 01

  That's, I mean, that's a lot of.

• 55:54Cameron Hanes?

  Right, that's more like hard rock. I don't know.

• 55:57Speaker 01

  Well, hard rock's, I think, thirty three.

• 55:58Cameron Hanes?

  Thirty, yeah, I know.

• 55:59Speaker 01

  Which, I mean, that sounds sick. I would love to try thirty three. But I mean, UTMB is also in the thirties.

• 56:06Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, and you're good at climbing. That's what I want to.

• 56:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:09Cameron Hanes?

  I want to see that.

• 56:10Speaker 01

  Agreed.

• 56:12Cameron Hanes?

  We we took some, you know, we did some pretty good steep trails and yeah, you you can climb.

• 56:17Speaker 01

  I like climbing, yeah, which is a huge. I initially, I was really, really good at descending, um, and I hated climbing, but I think just the more you, I I do a lot of gaslighting myself into enjoying the things I actually originally hated.

• 56:34Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 56:34Speaker 01

  So like, running at night was one thing that I I was really fearful of, um, and I just, I told myself like, no, you like this. Um, and this is fine.

• 56:44Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 56:44Speaker 01

  And I did that enough times where it's like, well, now running at night is my favorite. Not, well, I hesitate to say favorite, but I really appreciate it for what it is.

• 56:52Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 56:53Speaker 01

  Um, and I think climbing is the same, like, I hated it. I felt slow and I felt stupid. But then, I mean, I surrounded myself with people who are so much better at it than I was.

• 57:03Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 57:04Speaker 01

  Um, and you learn a lot from people who are, if you're always the best in the group, then what are you learning? Like, you're the teacher, which is great, um, but you're not learning anything. And so, um, yeah, I mean, that's another thing I've been appreciative about. Like, this week is how fast you are is like, you know, you, I, sometimes I think that I'm like a big fish in a small pond kind of thing.

• 57:25Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 57:25Speaker 01

  Um, and then you get in, like, the space of somebody who's so much better than you at something that you think you're good at, and you're like. Huh.

• 57:33Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 57:34Speaker 01

  Actually, I have a lot to learn here and like my, my ceiling is higher than I thought it was because I'm able to.

• 57:40Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 57:41Speaker 01

  Usually keep up with this person, um, most of the time. Um, but it's, I mean, it's hard.

• 57:46Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 57:46Speaker 01

  So, so yeah.

• 57:47Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, it's just, it's more like unlocking more potential now.

• 57:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:50Cameron Hanes?

  It's, that's all it is. It's like, oh, I didn't realize that. Now I do now, just like you're. Before you did it, you didn't realize you didn't like running at night. Then you did it and then you like, okay, I need to address this.

• 58:02Speaker 01

  Right.

• 58:02Cameron Hanes?

  So it's just another thing to like, I, if I address this, whatever it is, I'm going to be better at the, at the other end.

• 58:09Speaker 01

  Yeah. Doing things outside of your comfort zone.

• 58:11Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Cause we're, I mean, humans, we do go back to what we're good at.

• 58:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:15Cameron Hanes?

  That's just how life, this is how we are. So yeah, I think that realization on like, oh, maybe I could get better at this and improve at this. And that would make, you know, what I love even more enjoyable. So that's what I'm excited about because you have talent for, you have speed and uh, just combining that speed with that endurance in your heart and the willpower. We, I didn't talk about willpower here, but we did earlier this morning. But like your willpower level is very high. So it's like, if you, you know, with all that stuff, that's just like, I'm so pumped to see you race.

• 58:46Speaker 01

  I'm also pretty pumped. Yeah. I mean, it has not been lost on me, the rarity of this opportunity. Um, when I first got all of these sponsorships and I realized that, oh my God, I don't have to work. Um, I felt really guilty.

• 58:59Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 59:00Speaker 01

  Um, and I wasn't sure where that guilt was coming from or like, why, I guess.

• 59:05Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 59:05Speaker 01

  And I've done a little bit of work on trying to like, I isolate where that's coming from. But at the end of the day, it's like, okay, well, actually I'm just going to like, this is my life now. I don't need to fight this. I just need to embrace this.

• 59:18Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 59:19Speaker 01

  Because I don't know how long this opportunity is going to last. Um, and it would be a shame if I was so fearful of losing it that I didn't actually use it.

• 59:27Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 59:28Speaker 01

  Um, so yeah, I'm like fully embracing the. Bed till nine o'clock in the morning and like going to I'm just like if I'm not running, I'm just like chilling and it's great.

• 59:39Cameron Hanes?

  I get I you know, Truitt and I have talked about this first. He's mentioned this because he now he just that's what he does too. He just trains all day. So he realizes that he's not curing cancer. He's not changing. But he's like, in in his opinion, too, is like, he goes, what did Michael Jordan do? And still impacted millions?

• 59:57Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 59:57Cameron Hanes?

  And still so it's like, yeah, we're we can still make an impact, even though it's not like, so you say, oh, it's just running or whatever, or for him, just basketball. But yeah, we're we need as humans. Um, yeah, I mean, we grow from different things.

• 1:00:14Speaker 01

  Yeah. And the thing I keep telling myself is it's not my job to tell people how to be inspired.

• 1:00:20Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:20Speaker 01

  So if somebody wants to be inspired by what I'm doing, sick.

• 1:00:23Cameron Hanes?

  That's awesome.

• 1:00:23Speaker 01

  I'm gonna do it the best I can.

• 1:00:24Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I love it.

• 1:00:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:26Cameron Hanes?

  I love it. Well, we did the 31 miles there. Then we came and we had pizza.

• 1:00:31Speaker 01

  Heck, yeah.

• 1:00:32Cameron Hanes?

  And you talked to Janina a lot.

• 1:00:35Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:00:35Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, she's the best.

• 1:00:36Speaker 01

  I might be in love with her. I think she's great.

• 1:00:38Cameron Hanes?

  She's so cool. She's got a book coming out, but I'm gonna have her come on the show. Because I was I was, as I said, very impressed by her. But that was fun. So we hung out. Um, let's see what else did we shot bows? Oh, we lifted weights. Yes. Tell me about lifting weights.

• 1:00:51Speaker 01

  Humbling.

• 1:00:51Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:52Speaker 01

  A lot of this week was humbling.

• 1:00:53Cameron Hanes?

  No, you do great.

• 1:00:54Speaker 01

  It was humbling. Yeah. Uh, yeah, I think my favorite part was realizing that the chest press weight that you were repping was heavier than I weighed and being like, oh, let's see if we could do this. So thanks for being down. That was super funny.

• 1:01:09Cameron Hanes?

  That was a hit. Everybody liked that.

• 1:01:10Speaker 01

  That was pretty funny. Yeah, that was pretty funny. But I mean, yeah, I I think, you know, despite the fact that I'm a physical therapist, um, lifting weights has always been my weak point. Um, and I there probably like a decade ago, I was really involved with this. Um, it's a group class called Body Pump, where you like collectively lift weights together. Um, and I really, I mean, I enjoy it. I just can't do it by myself.

• 1:01:39Speaker 01

  So yeah, I don't, I always enjoy it when I do it, but uh, it's hard to motivate because I can go run by myself and that's always fun. Um, there's a lot of in like yoga and Pilates and stuff. I can do those things by myself and not have an issue, but for whatever reason, there's this like mental block with lifting weights.

• 1:01:54Cameron Hanes?

  The weights, yeah. Well, you did, a lot of my stuff too isn't like heavy. It's just more like just trying to be an athlete, you know, trying to make that destabilizer stuff and.

• 1:02:05Speaker 01

  Well, I, I mean, and I appreciate, especially again, as a PT background, like I appreciate the bulletproof life kind of thing where you're not just doing like single plane motions because our life does not exist in one plane. And if you want to truly be, uh, I just like injury preventative, then you have to train everything and ideally you train everything simultaneously. So, um, yeah, I, I like the balance stuff more because it, I don't know, even though there's less control, I guess, involved, I always feel like I can do those things better.

• 1:02:37Cameron Hanes?

  But when like, weren't your legs just like on fire?

• 1:02:40Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. No, it's hard.

• 1:02:42Cameron Hanes?

  The stimulation is just everywhere. You're about trying to balance and then you're trying to catch a ball. So I wanted to be like multiple things. Cause well, I was in my head. I'm always like, when I'm running, I need to think about, yes, you're sort of thinking about every foot placement, but you're also like thinking about other stuff. So I want to be able to like catch a ball, balance, do all that. I just feel like it makes me more well-rounded essentially.

• 1:03:06Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, it was funny because I, I finally was, you know, we were doing, I call it the Jeff Browning, but it was the thing that, whatever, but where one leg is on the bands and then the other is, and you're catching a ball. And then you were like asking me questions and I was like, hold on, I've only just gotten this part. Like, hold on a second. I can't answer this right now.

• 1:03:26Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:03:27Speaker 01

  But, but yeah.

• 1:03:27Cameron Hanes?

  So fun.

• 1:03:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was fun. So yeah, that was, but that, the chest press was particularly humbling. I've, I mean, but I've never even been able to do a push up. Like it's a thing.

• 1:03:37Cameron Hanes?

  You did like the, remember we did the.

• 1:03:39Speaker 01

  The thing where I almost died and you thought I'd like paralyzed myself. Yeah. You're being very kind.

• 1:03:45Cameron Hanes?

  It was so fun. It was so fun. You did amazing. We'll have a lift run shoot if Gideon ever gets off his ass and does anything.

• 1:03:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, Gideon.

• 1:03:53Cameron Hanes?

  Come on, Gideon.

• 1:03:54Speaker 01

  But.

• 1:03:54Cameron Hanes?

  But yeah, what a, yeah. So that was the proper lift run shoot. I think we covered all that, but we've had four days. We did speed workout today. We did, uh, yeah, of course, shooting the bow, watching UFC, eating pizzas. Like,

• 1:04:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:09Cameron Hanes?

  could this get any better?

• 1:04:10Speaker 01

  I don't know. I don't think so. My life is a dream. I already talked about how much I think my life is a dream. So.

• 1:04:16Cameron Hanes?

  Who, um, like, so coming into the sport, like who, who was your inspiration coming in?

• 1:04:23Speaker 01

  Uh, when I first got started, I don't think I had anybody. Um, I didn't know. I mean, obviously I knew that other people were doing it, but I didn't know who those people were.

• 1:04:32Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:32Speaker 01

  Um, I just enjoyed doing it for what it was. Um, and then obviously as I, I started going to races and, you know, I started actually being like plugged into the community a little bit more. I mean, like it's hard to say that Courtney was not the

• 1:04:47Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:04:47Speaker 01

  biggest inspiration to everybody, you know? And so, I mean, I was, I'm a huge, I mean, I remember, I guess it was 2017 when she like just went on one.

• 1:04:57Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:58Speaker 01

  Um, and just suddenly like, I, it was, it was insane because anytime her name was on a start list, I was like, I gotta watch what this woman does. And that to me, I mean, despite the fact that she is so next level incredible, um, she doesn't do anything that somehow you don't feel like you can also.

• 1:05:21Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:05:22Speaker 01

  Like I, I feel like I can do the things that she does, you know? Like she's, she doesn't make it seem out of reach.

• 1:05:28Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:05:29Speaker 01

  Um, and that's something that I really appreciate about her. And that's something that I've also tried to emulate myself is like, well, I never felt. Like, yeah, she just, she just makes it look so easy. You know that it's, you know that it's not, and you know that you probably can't do those things. But like, what if you can?

• 1:05:46Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:47Speaker 01

  Um, and she always invites that question to you. It's like, well, what if you can do this too?

• 1:05:52Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:52Speaker 01

  Um, and so that's something that I've, I've really appreciated having her as a role model for is because there's never a, I'm, I'm amazing at this and it's only my thing to be amazing at.

• 1:06:05Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:06Speaker 01

  She's very inviting and like, offers you the opportunity to like, be inspired by her.

• 1:06:11Cameron Hanes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:06:11Speaker 01

  Um.

• 1:06:12Cameron Hanes?

  That's true.

• 1:06:13Speaker 01

  So.

• 1:06:14Cameron Hanes?

  She kind of down, downplays her accomplishments or her ability. And like it, you know, leaning into the candy and pizza and beer and all this shit. And like, just has fun, doesn't have a coach, so.

• 1:06:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:29Cameron Hanes?

  Sort of.

• 1:06:30Speaker 01

  All relatable things for me.

• 1:06:31Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, all, all things like, okay, that, where she could, she could say, hey, I work everybody. You could, you can't do what I do. I get in more miles than you could ever dream of. Some people take that approach. And then that does build a little wall.

• 1:06:45Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:06:46Cameron Hanes?

  And, or not even a wall, but makes it seem like, okay.

• 1:06:48Speaker 01

  It makes it unapproachable.

• 1:06:49Cameron Hanes?

  That's not attainable for me.

• 1:06:51Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:06:51Cameron Hanes?

  I'm not like that. There's no way I could do it. Or she's taking this other, this like, community growing approach, like, ah, yeah, you could do it too. You'd love it. Let's, be so fun.

• 1:07:00Speaker 01

  I much prefer, why not you?

• 1:07:02Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, and that's her whole thing. It's like, even having her mom out there do, think it was trying to do Havelina.

• 1:07:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:08Cameron Hanes?

  But, uh, you know, just showing that anybody can do this.

• 1:07:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:13Cameron Hanes?

  And, uh, so I think that's, that's pretty cool. Cause she could easily go the other way.

• 1:07:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:17Cameron Hanes?

  Cause she's.

• 1:07:17Speaker 01

  And there's a lot of people who do. I mean, I remember like, early on, when I moved to Washington, there was a goal that I wanted to accomplish and the person who had the record made it seem unattainable to get. And I did not think that it was unattainable, but publicly it was very like, oh, this was very hard and like, it was so scary and I'm so brave and I have all these intrinsic qualities that make me the only person who can do this.

• 1:07:43Cameron Hanes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:07:43Speaker 01

  And I was like, well, I don't think you're the only person who can do this though. Like, I think that anybody could do this and I think that I could do this.

• 1:07:50Cameron Hanes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:07:51Speaker 01

  And yeah, and then like I did it.

• 1:07:53Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 1:07:54Speaker 01

  And then it's like, well, of course I did this.

• 1:07:56Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:07:57Speaker 01

  Like it, I, it's seldom to be so unique. I mean, there's eight billion people on the planet. Like, what do you mean? You're the only one.

• 1:08:06Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:08:06Speaker 01

  You're not.

• 1:08:07Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:07Speaker 01

  So like, I don't know. I mean, of course, you know, there's talent and there's whatever, but like still, I mean, if you work hard at things, then why can't you be just as successful as the people that you look up to?

• 1:08:21Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:22Speaker 01

  Um.

• 1:08:22Cameron Hanes?

  That's true.

• 1:08:23Speaker 01

  So yeah, I mean, I remember like talking.

• 1:08:24Cameron Hanes?

  And you did it.

• 1:08:25Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I, a lot of the times.

• 1:08:27Cameron Hanes?

  This isn't just like, just, just what if? No, you did it.

• 1:08:30Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I mean, a lot of the times like, and I also, you know, meet your heroes because I met Courtney at Cogadona and I heavily credit her with the performance that I was able to put out because she pushed the pace in the beginning. And while she did not have the day that I know that she wanted, um, she allowed me to have a day I didn't even know I could get.

• 1:08:52Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:52Speaker 01

  You know, um, and now I, I move, I've moved forward in my running career with that knowledge of like, well, you have no idea what you're capable of. And like, why not try a little harder and like, see if it sticks? It's, I'm, I've had a really good string of luck and I'm not going to deny that. And I mean, part of it has been my training and my skill and I get all of the talent, whatever, but, um, but also part of it is luck.

• 1:09:19Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 1:09:19Speaker 01

  Um, but yeah, it's like, you know, moving forward, like, why not? Try to be the best you can.

• 1:09:30Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:30Speaker 01

  Like there's no more, I'm not interested in coasting it in to the finish. Like I want to push that envelope.

• 1:09:38Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:38Speaker 01

  Like I got, I mean, again, at Cogadona, like I got a really good opportunity of like, I had no idea I could do that first 50K and seven or whatever, six 30. Like that's a nuts first 50 or getting to mile 37, crowking or whatever.

• 1:09:51Cameron Hanes?

  No.

• 1:09:51Speaker 01

  Like I was. Flabbergasted. And to me, the biggest, um, the biggest change was getting to Whiskey Row, so seventy-eight, before nightfall. Like, I got there at midnight last year, and I got there at like seven-thirty.

• 1:10:06Cameron Hanes?

  That's amazing.

• 1:10:07Speaker 01

  This year, and I was like, holy crap. Like, I, this, and I didn't even feel that bad. So like, what, what, how much was I selling myself short before?

• 1:10:17Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:10:18Speaker 01

  Like, you'll never know if you don't try.

• 1:10:19Cameron Hanes?

  Exactly, yeah.

• 1:10:21Speaker 01

  And sometimes, I mean, and sometimes we need somebody to show us the way.

• 1:10:25Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:26Speaker 01

  And so, shout out Courtney.

• 1:10:28Cameron Hanes?

  I know, yeah. That's, that's so cool. I mean, I do want to see, I want to see you guys race, you know, the whole thing. It's like, you know.

• 1:10:36Speaker 01

  I do too.

• 1:10:37Cameron Hanes?

  But it's.

• 1:10:37Speaker 01

  Probably get my butt handed to me, but maybe not.

• 1:10:40Cameron Hanes?

  Well, so that, like, my question to you is, can you be the GOAT?

• 1:10:47Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 1:10:49Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:49Speaker 01

  There's a lot of GOATs out there. I don't, I don't.

• 1:10:51Cameron Hanes?

  What I didn't hear was, no.

• 1:10:53Speaker 01

  Yeah. I don't know. I mean, I don't know is the only answer I can give you. I don't want to say no.

• 1:10:59Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:59Speaker 01

  Because if you say that, then you're right.

• 1:11:01Cameron Hanes?

  Yep, exactly right. So, yeah. No, it's, uh, that's, that's what's gonna be fun to find out, because you're so invested in it, and you love it so much. So now, now it's just like, hey, see what happens?

• 1:11:13Speaker 01

  I owe it to everyone to be invested in it, because this is what I'm doing now. Um, so it would be foolish not to try.

• 1:11:21Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:22Speaker 01

  You know?

• 1:11:22Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. No, I love it. It's, uh, yeah, it's a great time. Um, what about haters? You got any haters?

• 1:11:30Speaker 01

  I mean, I guess everybody has. I've had to redefine my definition of hater. Um, I think that there will be people out there who don't believe in you and don't think that your accomplishments, uh.

• 1:11:41Cameron Hanes?

  How could they not believe in Rachel Endrick?

• 1:11:43Speaker 01

  I, well, I don't know. I'm trying to prove them. I'm trying to, whatever.

• 1:11:47Cameron Hanes?

  They'll, they'll look at your races and be like, oh, Ashtris hasn't done UTMB, or hasn't done whatever, so.

• 1:11:53Speaker 01

  There's been a lot of asterisks in the past year, where like, oh, well, you did this race, but this person dropped out, and that's why you won. Or like, oh, you did this race, but like.

• 1:12:01Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:02Speaker 01

  No, no one cares. There's a lot of no one cares, which is fine. I mean, that's fine that no one cares, but I care.

• 1:12:07Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:08Speaker 01

  And it's hard. If you think that it's easy, then you go do it.

• 1:12:12Cameron Hanes?

  In that race cared, I guarantee you.

• 1:12:13Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, exactly. Exactly. Um, so yeah, I mean, I, I think.

• 1:12:20Speaker 01

  My, anytime that somebody tries to downplay um something that I've accomplished, um, I just have to remind myself that, well, my story's not over yet.

• 1:12:31Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:31Speaker 01

  So like it's, and how much better is it going to be if I'm able to accomplish the things that I think that I'm capable of? Like, you don't, you don't, I mean, we don't want this to be easy. We don't want our paths to be perfect. Um, so to have people that are like, well, I don't know, like she's only done these, like, okay, then like when I go off and I do those things and if I do well at them, then like, how much better is that gonna feel?

• 1:12:54Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, great.

• 1:12:55Speaker 01

  I mean, that's gonna be great. I'm gonna be stoked. And then I'm gonna be like, I told you so.

• 1:13:01Cameron Hanes?

  I think people with, with a different mindset than you have could buy into that and say, they're right. They're right. Maybe I, I just need to accept whatever, but you are like, no. We, and it just reminds me, cause Truitt is also like this too. He loves the doubters because he's like, let's find out.

• 1:13:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:22Cameron Hanes?

  You're gonna find out. And uh, that's part of this whole thing. So you can't expect everybody to believe in you. And it's okay to have a chip on your shoulder, I think about like,

• 1:13:32Speaker 01

  As long as it propels you forward. Yeah.

• 1:13:34Cameron Hanes?

  If it's positive in that way and you're not like taking it on others or whatever, but kind of using it for your own fuel. I think it's, it's awesome.

• 1:13:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:42Cameron Hanes?

  I love it. But yeah, I'm pumped to, man, I'm so pumped to see how you're progressing.

• 1:13:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I think a big, a big reason why I've not been able to, I don't know, me personally, I haven't been able to put myself into the situations that people want me to put myself into is because I haven't had time, I haven't had resources. And now I have both.

• 1:14:00Cameron Hanes?

  It's expensive dude. I mean, those races, like go to UTMB.

• 1:14:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. Are you kidding me?

• 1:14:05Cameron Hanes?

  Holy shit.

• 1:14:05Speaker 01

  That's gotta be like 10 grand. I don't have 10 grand lying around.

• 1:14:09Cameron Hanes?

  You're talking about sleeping on somebody's couch. So yeah, people gotta understand that there, there is a barrier to entry on these big races. And it's not your fault. You haven't been able to take advantage of, you know, where you're at right now. That's just life.

• 1:14:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:22Cameron Hanes?

  But so you can't, I can't be discredited for that because Courtney didn't come in racing UTMB.

• 1:14:28Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:14:28Cameron Hanes?

  She came in, she dropped at Rocky Raccoon.

• 1:14:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:31Cameron Hanes?

  You know, and so that was part of her journey, but at that time, nobody was saying like, well, she hasn't beat anybody. You know what I mean? So it's, it's a little bit different.

• 1:14:40Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I, I think that the sport is, has changed so much even over the last year. Like we just have these. Expectations from people to like, put up these like, oh, course record every time. And like, it's, it's hard to like,

• 1:15:00Speaker 01

  it's, yeah, it's hard to feel like you want to break into a sport where every single time you toe the start line, somebody expects you to just like do something that's never been done before.

• 1:15:08Cameron Hanes?

  Make history.

• 1:15:09Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:15:09Cameron Hanes?

  Make history. Make me laugh clown.

• 1:15:11Speaker 01

  I know, exactly.

• 1:15:12Cameron Hanes?

  This is like.

• 1:15:12Speaker 01

  Dance.

• 1:15:13Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. You know, because this is like one of the hardest things there is to do. I mean, you've nailed it so many times, which that's also fascinating because most people, they might do 10 ultras.

• 1:15:28Cameron Hanes?

  Two of them might go good.

• 1:15:31Cameron Hanes?

  Three, five of them, they might have DNF'd, you know, because this shit's hard.

• 1:15:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:35Cameron Hanes?

  So that I bring that up to say that like you've had, your run is insane. You haven't, because we all know there's roller coasters I just explained. You've won every 21 in a row. So. That.

• 1:15:47Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 1:15:48Cameron Hanes?

  Can't ignore that.

• 1:15:48Speaker 01

  No, yeah. And I mean, again, we can have the people that put the asterisk by it and be like, oh, but there was nobody there. Okay. Well, I like, tell me that nobody was at High Lonesome. And like, e- even if there's nobody there, like you still have to, you can't, in order to win, you can't slip. Like you still have to care the whole time.

• 1:16:09Cameron Hanes?

  I've, I've seen local people show up at these local little things that are machines that you've never even heard of.

• 1:16:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:15Cameron Hanes?

  They just train all the time and you're like, you're in the race and you're like, who the is this guy?

• 1:16:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:22Cameron Hanes?

  Nobody knows it, but he's just a machine. So yeah, I don't care what race it is.

• 1:16:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:27Cameron Hanes?

  There's going to be good runners there.

• 1:16:28Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I mean, for me, I don't, I mean, I haven't intentionally, I haven't cherry picked races. Like I do races that I want to do.

• 1:16:35Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:35Speaker 01

  Um, and so, and my goal never not is necessarily to win those things. Like I, it's been funny over the last year because people have suddenly gotten wind of like the win streak, you know?

• 1:16:45Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:47Speaker 01

  And that is never something that I kept count of or cared about even. It's just like when I go to a race, like my only intention is I, I know what the course is. I don't know what I can do on it, but like, let's find out.

• 1:16:59Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:00Speaker 01

  Um, so the win thing has just been, like I finished high lonesome and I didn't even know what my time was. I just knew that like I, I tried to push to the capacity that I could the whole race.

• 1:17:12Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:17:13Speaker 01

  And like, okay, that resulted in a win, but if it didn't.

• 1:17:16Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:16Speaker 01

  Like I can only do what I can do and I have to be proud of that.

• 1:17:20Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:17:20Speaker 01

  Um.

• 1:17:21Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I think, I think that like, I mean, I brought up the win streak. I think it's just an easy measurable.

• 1:17:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:17:26Cameron Hanes?

  You know, it's just like money.

• 1:17:27Speaker 01

  It's objective. It's, it's a flashy thing.

• 1:17:29Cameron Hanes?

  It's whatever. It's just easy for us to throw that out there. Then that's a reference point to talk about. But yeah, you're right. It's like, uh, it, yeah, it kind of has a life of its own now, but.

• 1:17:39Speaker 01

  Now, yeah, for sure.

• 1:17:40Cameron Hanes?

  But generally, yeah, I mean, just your ability to withstand whatever comes up in those races and still win. That is, that's, that's special. That's like, so when I think about like your, your goal is to be, to find out how good you are. But do you have like a goal this year for like any race or, or like if you, what's your vision for this season?

• 1:18:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I think I've only really ever raced, uh, within the North America, I would say. I've done a couple of races in Canada, but, um, but I think I have not had a lot of success with international racing.

• 1:18:18Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:18:18Speaker 01

  Um, I made the Spartathlon team and that, and again, this is why Ultra Sign Up does not have the full picture.

• 1:18:24Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:18:25Speaker 01

  Cause I went to Spartathlon and I DNF'd it at mile 80 out of 150. Like that's not great, but it's not an Ultra Sign Up. So nobody cares. But there we go. I'm admitting it.

• 1:18:34Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:34Speaker 01

  But yeah, I mean, I, for a lot of reasons, I didn't have the day that I wanted. I had the day that I needed, but I didn't have the day that I wanted. Um, and so, and that's made me hesitant, not hesitant, but like I'm signed up for Chianti and that's in Italy and like I'm. Not scared, but like this is gonna be hard and it's gonna be hard in a way that I don't necessarily get with like, you know, in America, aid stations are pretty similar.

• 1:19:03Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:03Speaker 01

  They have the same stuff.

• 1:19:04Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:19:04Speaker 01

  They're approximately the same distances apart and like, I know what to expect from, I've traveled a lot in the country, like I know what to expect from the terrain, but like I've, I've never run in Italy.

• 1:19:14Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:19:15Speaker 01

  Like, I don't know what Tuscany is like, you know, and I don't know what, I don't, I can find out, but like, I don't know what the aid station situation is going to look like or be, and I don't know what the competitor, competitors are gonna be capable of either, because I don't know these people and UTMB doesn't publish start lists.

• 1:19:31Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:19:31Speaker 01

  And so it's just, I mean, I'm, again, we wouldn't want this to be easy. So like taking myself out of that comfort zone and putting myself, you know, I feel like I've not mastered, but like I.

• 1:19:41Cameron Hanes?

  You're comfortable.

• 1:19:41Speaker 01

  I'm comfortable here. I'm comfortable here and that's not gonna help me grow.

• 1:19:45Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:46Speaker 01

  So what's gonna help me grow is finding something that I'm not comfortable with and being like, all right. Like, you don't even speak Italian, Rachel, like.

• 1:19:52Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:53Speaker 01

  Go to Italy and like do this race.

• 1:19:55Cameron Hanes?

  Figure this out.

• 1:19:55Speaker 01

  Figure it out. Like how, what, what can you accomplish in a situation that's completely, well, it's not completely new to me, but I've never found success in this situation. So like, let's see. You know, I'm lucky I have support now and all that stuff, but like, let's see what happens if you're in a situation that is new.

• 1:20:13Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:14Speaker 01

  Um, yeah. And I mean, again, if I, if I do well at Qianti, then that opens doors to do these big competitive races that everybody's saying I haven't done yet.

• 1:20:22Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:23Speaker 01

  So fine. Okay. If I, if I can do them, then I will.

• 1:20:27Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:27Speaker 01

  Because I, you know, I wanna know too. Like I wanna know what I'll do at these things.

• 1:20:31Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, it's so fun. Yeah. I mean, yeah, the unknown is fun to try to figure out. I love that.

• 1:20:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:37Cameron Hanes?

  Um, but yeah, you're right that that travel, because you are accustomed, we know to expect here over there. And I always think about like,

• 1:20:46Cameron Hanes?

  Your nervous system, like being in an unfamiliar environment, this is why like with hunting, you're always trying to be like calm because you make better decisions, you burn less calories, you're more efficient. So it's like you said something like you don't know the language or the or Tuscany or whatever, the food. It's like, so those are all little taxes on your nervous system. And it's just like, so the calmer you can be or more accepting to that, oh, I don't understand this, but it's gonna be fine, is gonna parlay itself to a better result in the race, I bet. But it is something else to consider.

• 1:21:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:21:22Cameron Hanes?

  It is something else. Like, I've never done this.

• 1:21:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:21:24Cameron Hanes?

  This is gonna take some of my energy away, but not enough. I gotta make sure it's not detrimental.

• 1:21:31Speaker 01

  Right. Because the reason I DNFed Spartathlon had nothing to do with running. It had everything.

• 1:21:36Cameron Hanes?

  Your body was.

• 1:21:37Speaker 01

  I was, I was fine.

• 1:21:39Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:39Speaker 01

  The reason I DNFed was all because I was, I had the incorrect headspace going into the race. I, you know, people were telling me like, oh, we think you could win this. And when you, when you go into a race with that heavy of an expectation from other people who readily tell you that that's what they want from you. And it's like, well, I've never even done this before. I've never raced internationally before. And like, it's a road race and I don't know anything about this. Like, I just am here for the party.

• 1:22:11Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:11Speaker 01

  And now you're telling me that you have these really heavy expectations.

• 1:22:15Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:15Speaker 01

  From me.

• 1:22:16Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:17Speaker 01

  And so, yeah, I just, I got so worked up and I just, I started out way too fast. And that's never something that I do. I never start out way too fast. But I, I mean, I knew immediately, you and I have chatted a lot about like the barely manageable pace. And my pace was not barely manageable. It was like, it was stupid. And like, I wasn't fueling well because the aid stations I was perplexed by. Like, what I thought had calories in it, didn't. And it was just like, everything was stupid. And I mean, part of it's on me. I did not, I didn't have time to prepare. I was, I was a director of oncology rehabilitation, like going, you know, into the race. And I, it was just, I mean, I, Yeah, I was, I needed that experience.

• 1:23:01Cameron Hanes?

  But you learned.

• 1:23:01Speaker 01

  I learned a lot. Yeah, we don't learn from, or at least I don't learn from things as well. Um, being six, because if you're successful every time, then like, okay, well then change nothing.

• 1:23:12Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:23:12Speaker 01

  But when you're not successful is when you have this really incredible opportunity to be like, okay, well, what did I? What happened there?

• 1:23:18Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:23:18Speaker 01

  And like, how can I, how can I fix this? Like, what things can I try next time to? Make it so that this doesn't happen again. And I mean, Spartathlon has been. I mean, I, I look back on that race and I'm very appreciative now. Of everything that it's given me because it prompted me to move to a place that I want to live now.

• 1:23:34Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:35Speaker 01

  Um, it, it got me out of the city and it got me into the mountains and it, it helped me become the person that I am today. Even though DNFing that race was.

• 1:23:44Cameron Hanes?

  Terrible.

• 1:23:45Speaker 01

  Terrible. I mean, my family came and they watched me.

• 1:23:48Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 1:23:49Speaker 01

  And that was not the experience that I wanted. Cause I've, I've been trying so hard with my history. I've been trying so hard to show my parents like, no, no, no, I like doing this. I promise. I'm good at it. And then I DNF this race and I cry and I barf and it's awful. Um, and so, yeah, I mean. That was every bit of that experience was really, really hard.

• 1:24:09Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 1:24:09Speaker 01

  Um, but. On the flip side, that made Coca Dona when my parents came. And they saw.

• 1:24:16Cameron Hanes?

  I saw them on that.

• 1:24:16Speaker 01

  Enjoy that.

• 1:24:17Cameron Hanes?

  I saw a clip of that.

• 1:24:18Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. I mean, the. Yeah. I mean, seeing my parents at Fort Tuttle, um, they were originally, I think, going to meet me way earlier in the race. But because I was going so much faster, they were like, well, like they were texting my crew. It was like, where is she? Like, where should we go right now?

• 1:24:33Cameron Hanes?

  Two fourteen or something?

• 1:24:34Speaker 01

  Something. Yeah. It's like quite, yeah. Um, but I was expecting to be at. You know, mile one, I was expecting to be in Sedona and I was not in Sedona.

• 1:24:43Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:24:44Speaker 01

  But yeah, and I mean, I remember I was, I was running with my pacer and I just like. Was boo hooing and I had to stop running. I was crying so much thinking about the fact that my parents were about to see this.

• 1:24:57Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, man.

• 1:24:57Speaker 01

  Like, everything that I've wanted them to see with regards to running that they'd. Like did not get it sportathlon. They're about to get it here.

• 1:25:05Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:06Speaker 01

  Um, and this is the environment that I am much more comfortable in is like the trail environment with the, you know, whatever. Um, and yeah, I mean, I had to stop running and just like hug my pacer and just like weep for probably like a couple of minutes. And then I was like, okay, like we should probably get moving. I'm getting dehydrated.

• 1:25:24Cameron Hanes?

  You've got such a pure heart.

• 1:25:25Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then, yeah, I mean, seeing my parents at that age station and you know, they had cowbells and some lines and my dad's just like filming and it's just like, oh my God, like yes.

• 1:25:34Cameron Hanes?

  That's so cool.

• 1:25:35Speaker 01

  We made them proud. We made them see and like them getting to watch the community like lift me up.

• 1:25:42Cameron Hanes?

  Celebrate you.

• 1:25:42Speaker 01

  Oh, it was amazing. It was amazing. I mean, this year I was, I was asked recently like, oh, what was the low point of your 2025? And I was like, there was not a low point.

• 1:25:51Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 1:25:52Speaker 01

  Um, and I'm very fortunate and I'm very grateful that there wasn't a low point, but um, I don't know. I'm hoping that I would love for this year to be similar. If I can have a year like last year, this year, I mean, I don't even know what I would do.

• 1:26:08Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:08Speaker 01

  It would be nuts.

• 1:26:09Cameron Hanes?

  Well, I can't wait to find out.

• 1:26:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:26:11Cameron Hanes?

  It's gonna be sick. But yeah, I, I, I think my favorite part of watching your, your content is at the end of the races, you always look so fine.

• 1:26:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:26:20Cameron Hanes?

  But you're always kind of funny. And I think on that one, you're, you're like, I think I, or I don't know, is that one? But I think I, I want to sit down or something like that.

• 1:26:27Speaker 01

  Oh, at Mammoth, I was like, I'm gonna sit in that chair.

• 1:26:30Cameron Hanes?

  That's what it was. But yeah.

• 1:26:31Speaker 01

  Cool. We made it.

• 1:26:32Cameron Hanes?

  Your finish line videos are always the best.

• 1:26:34Speaker 01

  That's what I've heard. Yeah. That's what I've heard. But I mean, I don't know. Whatever. It takes no extra energy to like be funny or like say what you are feeling. Like just be honest with everybody. Um, just be honest and be nice. Like, don't be a dick at the finish line.

• 1:26:49Cameron Hanes?

  No, it's, it's so cool to, yeah, it's good. Um, what about, so what's your plans for now being sponsored like for content and for, are you changing anything or like, do you have film projects coming up or?

• 1:27:00Speaker 01

  Uh, there are a couple of film projects, uh, in the works. Um, I don't know if I can talk about them. I don't know if I can, so I'm gonna not.

• 1:27:10Cameron Hanes?

  But.

• 1:27:11Speaker 01

  But there are some.

• 1:27:12Cameron Hanes?

  Theoretically.

• 1:27:12Speaker 01

  There are some.

• 1:27:13Cameron Hanes?

  There might be some films coming out.

• 1:27:14Speaker 01

  You know, there's some, there's some pretty cool like opportunities now that I'm like a person of interest.

• 1:27:19Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:20Speaker 01

  I'll.

• 1:27:20Cameron Hanes?

  So what, like, what are those?

• 1:27:21Speaker 01

  So.

• 1:27:22Cameron Hanes?

  Podcasts?

• 1:27:23Speaker 01

  So Vagabond Trails is a, it's like a touring group, I guess, I guess. Courtney has done work with them before. Um, but they approached me and asked me to do a TMB, so the Trail du Mont Blanc. In early August. And so people can sign up for that and like, I'll be there and we'll just like do the thing over the course of a week. Yeah, I'm stoked.

• 1:27:43Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:44Speaker 01

  Um, so yeah, so I've been, I've been promoting that. I need to probably promote that more, but, um, but yeah, I've been promoting that. Um, and that's a sick opportunity because I'm hopeful to get into the UTMB.

• 1:27:53Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:27:54Speaker 01

  The race and that would be like four weeks. There'd be like a four week break. And so I was like, cool. I get to see the whole thing. I get to do it with people and like, I get to do it slower.

• 1:28:03Cameron Hanes?

  How do you get in UTMB? Do they have?

• 1:28:05Speaker 01

  I would have to do, so that's why I'm doing Quanti.

• 1:28:08Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 1:28:08Speaker 01

  Because they have this whole complicated pyramid scheme system.

• 1:28:11Cameron Hanes?

  It's like stones or something?

• 1:28:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:28:13Cameron Hanes?

  But they don't have media exemptions, like to just add people?

• 1:28:16Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 1:28:17Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:17Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 1:28:18Cameron Hanes?

  Okay. I, I don't either.

• 1:28:20Speaker 01

  But I've never, I mean, I've never even done a UT, a buy UTMB race before, so I have.

• 1:28:24Cameron Hanes?

  What's that one? Uh, Courtney did La Varedo. Is that a UTMB race?

• 1:28:29Speaker 01

  B race, I think. I don't know. I think it is.

• 1:28:32Cameron Hanes?

  She did that last year.

• 1:28:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it might be, but, um, but yeah, I mean, I just, I've done races that are interesting to me and that I can afford. And usually those, they offer a lot of things, so they're typically more expensive and they involve travel. So I'm just like, whatever.

• 1:28:48Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that'd be a good one though.

• 1:28:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, so Quanti would hypothetically, if I, um, and I don't, again, I don't really know. I have an index that has somehow been generated.

• 1:28:58Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. It's based on results and it gives you a score, right?

• 1:29:02Speaker 01

  Index plus results equals what race you can do.

• 1:29:07Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 1:29:07Speaker 01

  Um, and so if I do a certain number at Quanti, then my index plus that equals I can do UTMB.

• 1:29:15Cameron Hanes?

  Okay. Well.

• 1:29:17Speaker 01

  So, yeah, we'll see.

• 1:29:18Cameron Hanes?

  We'll figure it out.

• 1:29:19Speaker 01

  But yeah, so, but regardless, I mean, I'm, I would like to do that race. I think that race, that race or Hard Rock, but Hard Rock is so challenging to get into. Um, but that race or Hard Rock speaks a little bit more to my strengths than something like States does. So if I'm trying to bet on myself, well, then like, all right, I'm gonna lean into my strengths here and like mountains are a little bit easier for me than just like a speed trial.

• 1:29:41Cameron Hanes?

  Bucked out trail.

• 1:29:42Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, um, so yeah, so I'll, uh, regardless, you know, if I'm able to do the vagabond trails thing, it's like, well, I get to be out there. And then if I'm not in it this year, the next year, now I have more time to apply and qualify and get in. So regardless, I mean, I'm, yeah, that's it. I got approached by with that opportunity and I was like, let's go. Like this is awesome.

• 1:30:06Cameron Hanes?

  That's true. It's like, I think, yeah, I think these opportunities and your personality and your just demeanor, I think is gonna, I think you can be a rocket ship.

• 1:30:16Speaker 01

  Yeah. So yeah, if you want to come run with me in France.

• 1:30:18Cameron Hanes?

  That'd be so sick.

• 1:30:19Speaker 01

  You can sign up now.

• 1:30:20Cameron Hanes?

  I'd love to.

• 1:30:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:30:23Cameron Hanes?

  But yeah, it's a, I don't know. It's like, it's weird because sometimes, um, these ultra athletes are so used to training by themselves or pretty like, uh, kind of quiet, you know, so.

• 1:30:37Speaker 01

  Not, not me.

• 1:30:38Cameron Hanes?

  Well, that, and that's what I say, that's special. It's like, I can't remember who we were talking, I was talking to somebody about this, but, um, generally, like, if you go with a shorter distance, the longer distance you get, the less personality you get normally. Like, if you go to the hundred, you got.

• 1:30:55Speaker 01

  All your energy is on the run.

• 1:30:56Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, you got Shaqiri Richardson, you got, uh, who's the, who's, oh, what's his name? Noah Lyles. You know, all the personality, putting up their showman, right? They're on the track. It's for nine seconds or whatever sec, however many seconds. And then, so they have to like get themselves fired up to take advantage of those nine seconds, right? And that's like putting on a show. Then the longer you get, the, the less personalities, because then it's just about hard work.

• 1:31:22Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:31:23Cameron Hanes?

  And like, hey, how long can you put your head down and work and not, you don't need to be celebrated all the time because you're not gonna be, you're gonna be out by yourself. So it's like, you have the personality of like, the shorter.

• 1:31:35Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, I think it's.

• 1:31:36Cameron Hanes?

  Let's put on a show.

• 1:31:37Speaker 01

  Yeah. For me, it'd be harder to rein that stuff in. Like, that's gonna be the thing that takes energy.

• 1:31:42Cameron Hanes?

  You put on a show. Everybody wants a show.

• 1:31:43Speaker 01

  Exactly. Exactly. And I mean, people love, like, I loved Mammoth. I thought that race was really fun. I'm glad, I mean, that was probably like my season ender.

• 1:31:53Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:54Speaker 01

  Quote unquote. Cause I did, I did other races afterwards, but like that one was, when I got done with Mammoth, I was like. We did it. Like, we did it. We're done.

• 1:32:01Cameron Hanes?

  You trained intentionally. You achieved your goal. You won. You had a good, good race.

• 1:32:05Speaker 01

  The thing that I thought was so fun and like Jimmy Elam is the guy who won the race in the end. But like, he and I just had this hilarious banter going into the race about like, oh, I'mma kick your ass kind of stuff. And that was so fun to me, like, in, in doing that during the race too, where like, I was behind him like, most of the time. And just like, getting to the eight stations and being like, I'll get you, Jimmy, to like, the camera guy.

• 1:32:31Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that's great.

• 1:32:32Speaker 01

  I mean, like, people, I mean, that's, that's

• 1:32:33Cameron Hanes?

  That's a story.

• 1:32:34Speaker 01

  It's fun.

• 1:32:35Cameron Hanes?

  It's a story.

• 1:32:35Speaker 01

  It's fun for me. And like, running is not inherently that interesting.

• 1:32:39Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:39Speaker 01

  So if you can create a like, fun little goofy rivalry between somebody, and if you can be like, if you can crack jokes and be crass at mile 150, when like, oh, it's, people love, and I love that. Like, I love watching athletes who are able to be themselves and be authentic and like, talk about it when it sucks. Like, don't just tell me that it's all fun and smileys and like, whatever. I remember Katie Asmit, I think it was 160, she was like, taping my feet. And I was just like, I mean, my facial expressions were quite authentic. Cause like, that sucked. And like, I was like, white knuckling the chair and just like, cussing and apologizing to the dad with toddlers, like, but that's, I mean, that's

• 1:33:24Cameron Hanes?

  That's real.

• 1:33:25Speaker 01

  That's real. And I'm not gonna like, there's professionalism, and then there's like, being a boring person.

• 1:33:31Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:33:31Speaker 01

  One of the best parts, as a, as a fan of the sport, one of the, my favorite things about this past year was watching Jim Wamsley just like, become somebody with opinions.

• 1:33:41Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I know.

• 1:33:42Speaker 01

  And like, that was in watching him after he won OCC, dancing around in the sombrero. Like, that's hilarious. Like, give me, I care so much more about you because you seem like a real person. And you're not like a cardboard figurine. And I never want to be a cardboard figurine.

• 1:33:58Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, and it's, I think that part of that, so, when I talk about the shorter, like, the Olympic style, and they put on the show or whatever, but, it is, if they don't do that, it is hard for a regular fan to connect with somebody who's just so elite. And like, they don't even look, I mean, like, some of those sprinters are just jacked and frickin', whatever. You're like, okay, I could never do that.

• 1:34:18Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:34:18Cameron Hanes?

  But, so they lose that connection with the audience, which is why you see Or followers or whatever, or just the general public, but you see like these Olympic athletes and they got super small followings, right? Cause it's hard to connect. But somebody like you who is so authentic and honest and out there, or like even seeing Jim, you know, show some humanity. That's what, that's what it takes.

• 1:34:42Speaker 01

  Jim became somebody that, and I mean, this says more about me than it does about Jim, but like Jim became my favorite runner this year. Like I always knew Jim was great, but now I know Jim is human.

• 1:34:53Cameron Hanes?

  I guarantee other people are impacted the same way.

• 1:34:55Speaker 01

  Yeah. And like, he's funny and he's smart. And like, I, yeah, I'm, I'm so much less inspired by somebody who is perfect all the time. Like I'm inspired by imperfection. And I mean, Jim had an incredible pivot this year. He got injured at Kianti. Please don't let that be an omen. Um, but he got injured at Kianti and had to figure out, well, like crap, how am I going to make the most out of this year? And not only did he do that, but he did it and then demonstrated so much of his personality.

• 1:35:25Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:25Speaker 01

  Um, and yeah, I mean, that was, I, he had a fantastic, he had the best, in my opinion, which is not, does not account for much, but like, in my opinion, he had the most enjoyable season of his career this past year. And I'm sure that he doesn't agree, but, uh, but I mean, God, it was amazing. Like you're watching somebody go from like being the long, the hundred mile champion to like, you just won a 50K.

• 1:35:47Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:48Speaker 01

  What?

• 1:35:49Cameron Hanes?

  I know.

• 1:35:49Speaker 01

  Like the most competitive 50K ever. You just.

• 1:35:51Cameron Hanes?

  Which one was that?

• 1:35:52Speaker 01

  OCC, at UTB. It's like the 50, whatever. But yeah, it was amazing. It was amazing.

• 1:35:57Cameron Hanes?

  I listened to track podcasts and even, or sort of track, but more track, but they were even inspired by, you know.

• 1:36:04Speaker 01

  He's amazing. I mean, God, what a dog.

• 1:36:06Cameron Hanes?

  That performance. Yeah.

• 1:36:07Speaker 01

  Sick.

• 1:36:07Cameron Hanes?

  It's, um, yeah. And I think, tell me if this was him, I was listening to a podcast and he was talking about, I think the Western States record. I mean, he's got it, but who, who won it this year? What was it?

• 1:36:19Speaker 01

  Caleb.

• 1:36:19Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Wasn't he pretty close?

• 1:36:21Speaker 01

  He was very close.

• 1:36:22Cameron Hanes?

  But I think I heard, or I was listening to Jim talking about time at aid stations.

• 1:36:27Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:36:28Cameron Hanes?

  He's like saying, where's Caleb going to make up that time? Because if you look at. The downtime at the aid station, you know, he was way faster than Jim. So Jim had a lot, he can easily clean up that time.

• 1:36:41Speaker 01

  If he picks up a minute parade station, then he's even better.

• 1:36:44Cameron Hanes?

  Was like super.

• 1:36:45Speaker 01

  Marginal.

• 1:36:46Cameron Hanes?

  Efficient. So he was just like looking at it just matter of fact, just like, where's he gonna make up this time?

• 1:36:51Speaker 01

  Yeah. No, Jim is, Jim is a fascinating podcast listener and I've never listened to him before this year, but like he was on Finn, he was on Dylan's and I was like, anytime I'd see his name connected to anything this year, I was like, oh, I gotta listen to this.

• 1:37:04Cameron Hanes?

  Is that because of, he's got so much experience and knowledge and you want to try to learn or just because you're a fan?

• 1:37:11Speaker 01

  Both.

• 1:37:11Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, both. Yeah. I mean, I, I, I did not see him as, he was, he was very unlike Courtney in that I did not see him as a real person that I just assumed, and again, assumptions, but I assumed like, oh, this must be easy for you. Like this has never been easy for me necessarily. Like it feels good and it feels like the thing I should be doing, but that does not mean it's always been easy to do.

• 1:37:35Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:37:36Speaker 01

  I'm not, I'm not a natural runner. But for me, it's like, oh, well, he just must be a natural runner.

• 1:37:42Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:37:43Speaker 01

  And not a real person. But this year showed me like, oh no, this guy's a real person and like, he's just, he's just put in the work.

• 1:37:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, I always hate it when people say like, oh, you must be like naturally gifted. It's like.

• 1:37:59Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:59Speaker 01

  No, I've been doing this for 15 years.

• 1:38:02Cameron Hanes?

  And that doesn't help me get in these 120 mile weeks.

• 1:38:05Speaker 01

  Right. Like it's all work.

• 1:38:07Cameron Hanes?

  It's, it's hours, hours on in the mountains, you know, 20 hours a week. There's no gift that makes that easy.

• 1:38:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:38:15Cameron Hanes?

  That's a lot of effort.

• 1:38:16Speaker 01

  It's a lot of effort.

• 1:38:17Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:18Speaker 01

  And a lot of time.

• 1:38:20Cameron Hanes?

  What's been your favorite, like so right now podcasts are good. Like what's, what podcasts do you enjoy listening to and what's been? Now you're part of them too, a little bit. I mean, you're kind of, you're a fun guest.

• 1:38:31Speaker 01

  Thank you. I'm like a professional podcast.

• 1:38:33Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, people want to have you on. So tell me about your podcast experience.

• 1:38:36Speaker 01

  Yeah. Um, I remember the, I think the first podcast I ever did was with Joe Corsione on the Everyday Ultra and I was so nervous. Yeah, I like was really nervous and I talked a lot and I said, like a ton, which is something I'm very self-conscious about. I listen to myself and I think that I sound so valley girl, but.

• 1:38:56Speaker 01

  But yeah, I mean, from that was in 2022, I think. And from then to now, um, yeah, I don't know. I, I think you learn a lot about what you believe in when you have an opportunity to talk about it out loud with people.

• 1:39:09Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:39:10Speaker 01

  So yeah, it's mostly just practicing, putting into words, the feelings that I have, and that's hard. And it's especially hard to do that in real time when it's being filmed.

• 1:39:18Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:20Speaker 01

  But yeah, I, uh, I mean, this is a insane one to be on.

• 1:39:26Cameron Hanes?

  Just, oh, no.

• 1:39:27Speaker 01

  I still, I, what are you talking about? This is nuts.

• 1:39:29Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, this is awesome.

• 1:39:30Speaker 01

  This is nuts, dude. But yeah, I mean, I've, I've gotten an op, you know, now I've gotten an opportunity to be, you said before, like be a part of Between Two Pines, which is like the exact type of podcast that I want to be a part of.

• 1:39:43Cameron Hanes?

  Cause it's fun.

• 1:39:44Speaker 01

  Because we just make fun of our guests. And like, sign me up.

• 1:39:48Cameron Hanes?

  James, what are you doing over there? You idiot.

• 1:39:51Speaker 01

  Um, no, you're good. We can call him an idiot. Um, but yeah, I mean, I, I, cause to me, there's so much content out there. I don't want to just fill the space with another

• 1:40:00Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:40:00Speaker 01

  person who's doing the same stuff as everybody else.

• 1:40:03Cameron Hanes?

  I get mad at boring podcasts.

• 1:40:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:40:05Cameron Hanes?

  Like, I want to be like, I want to listen and be kind of entertained. You're like, okay, I got an hour. Then it starts off and you're like, what the?

• 1:40:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:40:12Cameron Hanes?

  You get pissed and you're like, now you gotta find something else to listen to.

• 1:40:15Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:40:15Cameron Hanes?

  I want to be entertained.

• 1:40:16Speaker 01

  Yeah. Or like, I want it to be something unique. Like, I don't just want to, it, um, I don't know. And of course I love, I love having inspiring guests on and that kind of stuff. But please, for the love of God, do not ask them the same questions. We already know the answers to. Like, they've been on the podcast already. Like, I already know how they got started. I know how they did this. And like, have a real conversation. And that's, I love Single Track. I think Finn, I was recently on the Single Track podcast and he, he, it's so funny because he had a list of questions and I was like, have we answered any of them? And he was like, no. It's like, all right, sick. Um, but he asked me, I mean, we just had a conversation and he asked me questions that I had never been asked before. And that

• 1:40:58Speaker 01

  is hard to do from where I stand now because I've been on so many.

• 1:41:02Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:04Speaker 01

  And yeah, I mean, he was asking me like, oh, if you had to change the, you know, the big three Western states, Hard Rock and UTMB, like if you changed those races and now suddenly three other races get to be, have the spotlight, like which races would you choose? I just thought that was like such a good question. Yeah, such a good question.

• 1:41:23Cameron Hanes?

  He wanted you to say Antelope Island.

• 1:41:25Speaker 01

  He did. That's a great, I saw you've done that one. That's a great, I like that race. I like the Buffaloes.

• 1:41:30Cameron Hanes?

  Now, I think, right?

• 1:41:31Speaker 01

  Yeah. But yeah, I mean, I, I like it when the podcast is thoughtful and when the, the person assumes the audience has done enough research to know why they're listening to this person.

• 1:41:47Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:41:48Speaker 01

  Cause we don't need, I mean, not every, of course, there's time and place for the, you know, story to come out and for, you know, whatever, but you need to progress past that. You can't just be like, all right, here's our guest, here's their story and we're done.

• 1:42:01Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:01Speaker 01

  Yay.

• 1:42:02Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:02Speaker 01

  Like you have to have a real conversation.

• 1:42:04Cameron Hanes?

  I hate that, I hate the contrived questions because it's like, that's not how life works.

• 1:42:10Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:42:10Cameron Hanes?

  You don't meet somebody and say, I got a list of questions for you.

• 1:42:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:42:14Cameron Hanes?

  There's one of my favorite or favorite ones to hate from James is his question is, who is Rachel Intrichin?

• 1:42:22Speaker 01

  Oh, God. I don't know.

• 1:42:25Cameron Hanes?

  Good job, James.

• 1:42:26Speaker 01

  I don't know who.

• 1:42:27Speaker 02

  If you ever decide to get past surface level, not the physical things, it's a good question for a documentary.

• 1:42:34Speaker 01

  Gosh.

• 1:42:35Cameron Hanes?

  So what do you mean? Like what she's supposed to say?

• 1:42:38Speaker 01

  Who is James?

• 1:42:39Speaker 02

  Who is Rachel Intrichin without ultra running, without these accomplishments, without your physical person?

• 1:42:45Cameron Hanes?

  Shut up.

• 1:42:47Speaker 01

  I mean, I'm probably pretty boring. I mean, I like cats and the piano. Oh, wait, okay.

• 1:42:54Speaker 02

  That's, think about it.

• 1:42:57Cameron Hanes?

  God.

• 1:42:59Cameron Hanes?

  You get off your soapbox over there.

• 1:43:00Speaker 01

  Well, whatever.

• 1:43:01Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:02Speaker 01

  We hate that guy.

• 1:43:03Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, we hate that guy. We hate Gideon.

• 1:43:06Cameron Hanes?

  Gideon, do you have any questions?

• 1:43:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:43:08Cameron Hanes?

  Like, real questions? What?

• 1:43:10Speaker 01

  Don't ask me who is Rachel Lynch, and I will be upset.

• 1:43:12Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, exactly. That's what he's gonna do right now.

• 1:43:14Speaker 02

  Okay. Well, we gotta do a couple. We gotta get a couple out of the way.

• 1:43:18Cameron Hanes?

  Well, just, okay, just to get warmed up?

• 1:43:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:43:21Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 1:43:21Speaker 02

  So, we ask every guest, marry, kill.

• 1:43:25Speaker 01

  Oh, great. Okay.

• 1:43:27Speaker 02

  And I think this will be good when you guys talked about this a little bit, but marry, kill, Hard Rock, Western States, UTMB.

• 1:43:35Speaker 01

  All right, uh, we're killing states, cuz, huh, um.

• 1:43:41Cameron Hanes?

  No offense, Craig.

• 1:43:42Speaker 01

  No offense. I mean, I just, God, okay, anyway, um.

• 1:43:45Cameron Hanes?

  It's a, it's a, it's a track meet these days.

• 1:43:47Speaker 01

  It's a track meet.

• 1:43:48Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:48Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I've only just started doing track workouts, but, um, so yeah, I would kill that one. I would, I would probably UTMB. She seems like a good time.

• 1:43:57Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:58Speaker 01

  But I don't know if I need to do a bunch.

• 1:43:59Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. One time.

• 1:44:01Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then I would marry Hard Rock. It's so pretty out there.

• 1:44:04Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:04Speaker 01

  And like.

• 1:44:05Cameron Hanes?

  And you're familiar with it?

• 1:44:06Speaker 01

  Exactly. And the community is great, and I don't know.

• 1:44:08Cameron Hanes?

  History.

• 1:44:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:44:10Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, it'd be fun. Kiss the Rock.

• 1:44:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:44:12Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, it's got just all the cool stuff.

• 1:44:14Speaker 01

  Exactly. Yeah, so, final answer.

• 1:44:16Cameron Hanes?

  I think those are, those are good choices.

• 1:44:18Speaker 02

  Okay. Now, this one, we talked about already, but we gotta ask you on the podcast, is

• 1:44:25Speaker 01

  Oh, no.

• 1:44:26Speaker 02

  A 50K

• 1:44:27Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:44:28Speaker 02

  An ultra?

• 1:44:28Speaker 01

  Well, yes. Yes.

• 1:44:31Cameron Hanes?

  Gideon says it's not.

• 1:44:32Speaker 01

  Well, that's cuz he's stupid.

• 1:44:33Cameron Hanes?

  Okay, thank you.

• 1:44:34Speaker 01

  All right, no offense.

• 1:44:35Cameron Hanes?

  Clip that, Macy.

• 1:44:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:44:38Speaker 01

  No, but, I mean, it, it is some, like, by definition, an ultra is anything, I mean, I'm, I'm with Jeff on this one, like, an ultra is anything longer than a marathon, and so, 27 miles is an ultra.

• 1:44:50Cameron Hanes?

  But isn't it?

• 1:44:51Speaker 01

  Technically.

• 1:44:52Cameron Hanes?

  As I brought up with him, isn't it weird that 30 miles is an ultra and 300 miles?

• 1:44:57Speaker 01

  I know. Yeah. No, I said Mac Daddy ultras should be.

• 1:45:00Cameron Hanes?

  So, yo, we

• 1:45:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, it is strange.

• 1:45:03Cameron Hanes?

  Address it somehow.

• 1:45:04Speaker 01

  Well, I was, I was, um, the recipient of an award this year called the best ultra-ultra performance.

• 1:45:13Cameron Hanes?

  What does that mean?

• 1:45:14Speaker 01

  I don't know. It was my, my, uh, award was for Coca dona.

• 1:45:18Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 1:45:18Speaker 01

  So, yeah, ultra, ultra.

• 1:45:20Cameron Hanes?

  Is that like, must be long?

• 1:45:22Speaker 01

  I suppose. It must be multi-day.

• 1:45:24Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, maybe. Okay. So that's a start.

• 1:45:26Speaker 01

  Yeah. I think I just, I just call them multi-days.

• 1:45:29Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:30Speaker 01

  Though.

• 1:45:30Cameron Hanes?

  I just know that multi, multi-day is a lot different than even a hundred for one day.

• 1:45:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:45:36Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, it's so much different.

• 1:45:38Speaker 01

  I mean, bad water, I don't think is a multi-day.

• 1:45:40Cameron Hanes?

  Bad.

• 1:45:41Speaker 01

  I guess it can be.

• 1:45:42Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:43Speaker 01

  But for me, a multi-day is the winners are doing it, the winners are going through an entire twenty-four hour period.

• 1:45:51Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:51Speaker 01

  Then some.

• 1:45:52Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 1:45:53Speaker 01

  Like, that is a multi-day.

• 1:45:54Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. To me, I always think that multi-day is two nights.

• 1:45:58Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, I mean, but Dan Green, no, he did do two nights. Yeah.

• 1:46:02Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:03Speaker 01

  I'm like, not, I don't do public math.

• 1:46:04Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, it was.

• 1:46:05Speaker 01

  I don't know how math works.

• 1:46:06Cameron Hanes?

  Cause you're, like, if it's under forty-eight hours.

• 1:46:08Speaker 01

  Yeah. Cause I mean, mammoth is a multi-day.

• 1:46:11Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:12Speaker 01

  So I think, yeah, you need, you need twenty-four hours plus at least like twelve.

• 1:46:17Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:17Speaker 01

  For it to be a multi-day, in my opinion.

• 1:46:20Cameron Hanes?

  So day and a half is multi-day.

• 1:46:22Speaker 01

  I, yeah.

• 1:46:22Cameron Hanes?

  Thirty-six hours. Yeah, we're, we're good. We'll go with that. I like that.

• 1:46:25Speaker 01

  But anyway, whatever. So, yeah, so fifty K is an ultra. Final answer.

• 1:46:27Speaker 02

  So my fifty Ks are, uh, ultra ultras, cause they're multi-day.

• 1:46:31Speaker 01

  Are they?

• 1:46:33Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. He makes the shortest ultra multi-day somehow.

• 1:46:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:46:37Speaker 01

  That's impressive. A five K ultra marathon.

• 1:46:39Speaker 02

  I'd like to run through the night so I can try and catch the leader.

• 1:46:42Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:46:42Speaker 02

  You know?

• 1:46:43Cameron Hanes?

  What?

• 1:46:43Speaker 01

  Got it. At that fifty K, running through the night.

• 1:46:46Speaker 02

  Yeah. Okay.

• 1:46:49Speaker 02

  Um, okay. So when we had Courtney on, she talked about like her literal pain cave. And then we discovered that it was like, she's actually chipping away in a cave. And it's not just this like saying. So what is your pain cave? What do you, where do you go when, when things get really hard?

• 1:47:10Speaker 01

  I think I just uh go to the moment like I don't I don't think I go anywhere.

• 1:47:16Cameron Hanes?

  No.

• 1:47:16Speaker 01

  But I I remember, I think it was actually Courtney that was talking about this, but she um is a very visual. Like she's very descriptive with like the tools that she uses and she mentioned a filing cabinet one time.

• 1:47:28Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 1:47:29Speaker 01

  Where she'll put similar situations and what she did.

• 1:47:33Cameron Hanes?

  Oh.

• 1:47:33Speaker 01

  Into the filing cabinet.

• 1:47:34Cameron Hanes?

  I never heard this one.

• 1:47:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, I heard it.

• 1:47:37Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:37Speaker 01

  And I use the filing cabinet. I I guess, yeah, I go to the filing cabinet and I'm like, well, where have we been? Where this is similar and what do we do and did that work? And if it did work, can I implement that now? Um, so I guess it's like a process. So yeah, I guess I go to the filing cabinet.

• 1:47:53Cameron Hanes?

  What would be in your filing cabinet? You shit your pants again, James?

• 1:47:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, running through the night and I hope you pack your headlamp for that 5K.

• 1:48:01Speaker 02

  Shitting my pants again. Hold on, you gotta get through the first 40 folders of shitting my pants.

• 1:48:07Speaker 01

  Pain blood next.

• 1:48:10Cameron Hanes?

  I like that. Uh, yeah, the filing cabinet. That's I haven't heard.

• 1:48:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I I for a while, I actually, it was it was natural for me to be to picture the filing cabinet and to thumb through the files. And be like, all right, where am I?

• 1:48:25Cameron Hanes?

  Well, you're buying time doing that in like in the moment.

• 1:48:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:48:28Cameron Hanes?

  Like, it's something to distract you from. And that's her whole premise is like, she's just thinking about work, like hitting the chisel and and debris falling. Not thinking about running per se. So just focus on something other than running, which focus on the file cabinet, looking for that damn file.

• 1:48:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:48:45Cameron Hanes?

  Is something different.

• 1:48:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. And now I think I I wait for the moment that it gets hard because that's when, and I guess this is more of that like pain cave analogy perhaps, but like when it gets hard is what you came here for.

• 1:48:57Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:58Speaker 01

  Like you didn't come here so that you could breeze through the race and it would be easy the whole time.

• 1:49:02Cameron Hanes?

  That'd be nice.

• 1:49:03Speaker 01

  You came here to get to the hard part and then prove to yourself that you're stronger than it. Um, so now I think I just, I I have like a little, I don't use a lot of mantras, I guess, but the mantra that I use the most often is like, this is what you came for.

• 1:49:18Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 1:49:19Speaker 01

  Um, and or like, we wouldn't want this to be easy.

• 1:49:21Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:22Speaker 01

  Um, cause that's not, I mean, I can sit at home and that's easy. But like, if I'm signing up for a 200 mile race, like I'm not in it to. Like this is what you came for. Like you came for it to be hard and it's a bummer if that happens at mile thirty.

• 1:49:34Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:35Speaker 01

  But like, alright, well now you have one hundred and seventy miles to like turn it around or figure it out. Yeah.

• 1:49:41Cameron Hanes?

  So that's, that's good. I, I think, I remember when Courtney was explaining that, she says, I'm gonna quit talking because the longer I talk, the more crazy I sound.

• 1:49:50Speaker 01

  We all, nobody hears. It's not a sport for sane people.

• 1:49:53Cameron Hanes?

  Normal is how boring is normal?

• 1:49:55Speaker 01

  I don't.

• 1:49:56Cameron Hanes?

  I don't want to talk to normal people. I guarantee that.

• 1:49:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:49:59Cameron Hanes?

  But you remember, you had, or James, that other question about the brain? I think you should ask that one. Oh. Do you remember that one? Yep. That I, I, I like that question.

• 1:50:08Speaker 01

  He's gotta look through his filing cabinet.

• 1:50:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, let me go through, hold on, getting through this shit.

• 1:50:11Speaker 01

  Shit, pee and blood.

• 1:50:12Speaker 02

  Get shit.

• 1:50:13Cameron Hanes?

  Butt plug, butt plug.

• 1:50:14Speaker 02

  Getting shit on. And here it is.

• 1:50:17Speaker 01

  Yikes.

• 1:50:19Speaker 02

  Okay, so on course, during a race, if you could trade brains with anybody, any athlete out there, who would it be?

• 1:50:27Speaker 01

  Any athlete? Uh.

• 1:50:29Speaker 02

  Like that's also in the race?

• 1:50:32Speaker 01

  Hmm. I mean.

• 1:50:37Speaker 01

  Uh, that's a tough question. Probably, I mean, maybe Jim Wamsley.

• 1:50:41Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:42Speaker 01

  Maybe. That must be interesting.

• 1:50:44Cameron Hanes?

  I know.

• 1:50:45Speaker 01

  That must be, yeah.

• 1:50:46Cameron Hanes?

  I thought that was a good question because it's like, I know what my [bleep] up brain is thinking. It's usually not good.

• 1:50:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:50:52Cameron Hanes?

  So I wonder if it'd be like just wholesome from some of these other people and I'd be like, wow, this is weird.

• 1:50:57Speaker 01

  We should trade brains. I'd probably run off a cliff if I traded brains with you.

• 1:51:02Cameron Hanes?

  You would. You would. It would be like, uh.

• 1:51:05Speaker 01

  It's a good day to die, everybody.

• 1:51:07Cameron Hanes?

  It'd be like, you know how when sunlight hits Dracula?

• 1:51:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:51:10Cameron Hanes?

  Be like that.

• 1:51:12Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. You on the other hand, you on the other hand, be like, ah, let's go pet a dog.

• 1:51:18Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:18Speaker 01

  We're having a great time.

• 1:51:20Cameron Hanes?

  Right. I've never been happy before. What is this feeling?

• 1:51:23Speaker 01

  Crazy. Yeah, you gotta practice.

• 1:51:25Cameron Hanes?

  I don't hate everyone. Weird.

• 1:51:26Speaker 01

  I know. I, yeah, that would be, a brain swap would be odd.

• 1:51:30Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that'd be fun though.

• 1:51:31Speaker 01

  Maybe I'd trade brains, I'd trade brains with you and just see if I could take it.

• 1:51:36Cameron Hanes?

  Be a good test.

• 1:51:37Speaker 01

  We wouldn't want it to be easy.

• 1:51:40Cameron Hanes?

  What else you got?

• 1:51:41Speaker 02

  Okay, you talked about how you kind of like when people are made human.

• 1:51:47Speaker 02

  And we watched Truitt's last video the other night and he was talking about how Goggins says he stares at his shoes for 30 minutes and doesn't want to go running. But I feel like with you, you're always, it seems like you're always psyched to just go running.

• 1:51:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:51:59Speaker 02

  Is that true?

• 1:52:00Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:52:01Speaker 02

  So you never have those moments where you're like, ah, I don't.

• 1:52:04Speaker 01

  I mean, sometimes I will.

• 1:52:06Cameron Hanes?

  This morning.

• 1:52:08Speaker 01

  I wanted to go running. I just didn't want to do speed work. If you, what did I say? I said, let's go run up a mountain.

• 1:52:15Cameron Hanes?

  She did her first, I said, what do you want to do? She's like, yeah.

• 1:52:18Speaker 01

  Run up a mountain?

• 1:52:19Cameron Hanes?

  I said, well, we're not going to.

• 1:52:20Speaker 01

  Well, too bad. I mean, I have, I don't, yeah, there are some, I don't run every day. I do purposefully take days off.

• 1:52:31Cameron Hanes?

  But you have, you have really big days.

• 1:52:33Speaker 01

  But I.

• 1:52:33Cameron Hanes?

  And then, yeah, recovery days.

• 1:52:35Speaker 01

  Right. So if there's a day when I don't want to go running, I just don't go running and it's fine. I just can't have, I can't have too many of those, but I won't.

• 1:52:46Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Cause you love it.

• 1:52:47Speaker 01

  Because I like it. Yeah.

• 1:52:49Cameron Hanes?

  Basically, you're listening to your body?

• 1:52:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:52:51Cameron Hanes?

  Or?

• 1:52:52Speaker 01

  It's a novel thought.

• 1:52:54Cameron Hanes?

  Weird.

• 1:52:54Speaker 01

  I know. Yeah.

• 1:52:56Cameron Hanes?

  Well, you're going to be happy we did the speed workout. When you see it, pictures, you just shred it.

• 1:53:00Speaker 01

  I'm sure. Yeah. With my like pain face on and just like, ah.

• 1:53:04Cameron Hanes?

  No.

• 1:53:04Speaker 01

  Looking like an ogre.

• 1:53:05Cameron Hanes?

  No, you're gonna look great.

• 1:53:06Speaker 01

  You gotta Photoshop like Gisele Bundchen on my face.

• 1:53:10Cameron Hanes?

  I told her last night, like all the feedback we're getting off her photos, I said, I didn't know you were a supermodel too. So.

• 1:53:15Speaker 01

  Stop it.

• 1:53:16Cameron Hanes?

  She's gonna look like a supermodel sprinting.

• 1:53:18Speaker 01

  If like 16 year old Rachel could hear somebody call me a supermodel.

• 1:53:22Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:23Speaker 01

  That it would make it all worth it in the end.

• 1:53:25Cameron Hanes?

  That's why I'm here.

• 1:53:27Speaker 01

  Cheers.

• 1:53:29Speaker 02

  Okay, last one. This is kind of a two parter.

• 1:53:31Speaker 01

  Oh, gosh. Okay.

• 1:53:32Speaker 02

  But as somebody who kind of went through those hardships or struggles with body image, self-confidence, and then you started, you know, winning these races.

• 1:53:43Speaker 02

  I guess I can fit this into one. Um, you know, it made me think about Gary Cantrell and he was talking about how like the losses, losing is coming like and it's, it's going to be good. If, if a team has a complete winning streak, their first loss, there's a lot that can be learned from that. Is there kind of this built up pressure for when that streak ends? And have you attached some self-worth to all of these first place finishes?

• 1:54:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, I've thought about this a lot. Um, because I do, I don't, I mean, and again, Spartathlon happened. So like streak. Um, but again, Spartathlon taught me a lot about the, and I agree with Gary, the power of everything going wrong. And like what you do with the lessons, you have to, you have to, if you apply them, then you actually win.

• 1:54:35Speaker 01

  Of course, I think that there's going to be pressure and I know that podcasters are going to be like, and Rachel takes ninth. Yeah. In like a shocking turn of events and like, ha, ha, ha, you know, but that is not, I hope that when that happens, and I will say when that happens because it will, at some point I will not win everything forever. Um, and when that happens, I hope to be strong enough to learn instead of just allowing that opinion to bury me.

• 1:55:06Cameron Hanes?

  To sit and yeah.

• 1:55:07Speaker 01

  Fester. Yeah. Make some kombucha.

• 1:55:09Cameron Hanes?

  I think, yeah, I think you're going to be, you're, um, so smart and deep thinking. I think you're just going to like, it's, I don't know. It's one of those things where, hey, we get better from it. You know, it's just like you, you explained that with Spartathlon. It's just like, everybody's going to fail. I don't care. I don't care who it is. It's just how you bounce back. And that's like, that's what a true winner is. So in some ways, I don't want you to lose, but in some ways. If that happens, I want to see how much better you come back because that's usually the catalyst to greatness.

• 1:55:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:55:44Cameron Hanes?

  Is being disappointed.

• 1:55:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, all winning teaches you is how to not, what things not to change.

• 1:55:50Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:51Speaker 01

  Losing, or not losing, that's a hard word, but like.

• 1:55:54Cameron Hanes?

  Just reevaluate, yeah.

• 1:55:55Speaker 01

  Exactly, like that, that forces growth where winning does not do that. If anything, winning forces like stagnation.

• 1:56:03Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, like, hey, I need to keep doing what I've been doing.

• 1:56:06Speaker 01

  Exactly, and it gets you so rigid and like, well, if I don't get these things, then like, I won't win. Um, so yeah, I don't know. I'm, I, I'm not going to say that I look forward to the day when I don't win a race, but part of me, it's, it's almost like gaslighting myself into thinking that running at night is fun. Part of me is like, all right, like, let's see what happens on the day that I don't win.

• 1:56:28Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:28Speaker 01

  And let's see the person that emerges after that event happens and who that person is, and I hope I like that person.

• 1:56:35Cameron Hanes?

  I think, you know, it, it just reminds me of, you know, Jelly Roll has talked to Truitt about this too. We were hunting on his birthday and so just talking to Truitt and Jelly Roll said, hey, could I just tell him something, but Truitt puts out big goals, right? And when you put yourself out there in the public, you're going to be criticized if something happens. And he hasn't, you know, hit the time on a few things and he got heavily criticized. But as Jelly Roll said, like, they asked him at some point when he was kind of coming up, like, what venue size does he want to go for? Because the two to 4,000, he could sell out.

• 1:57:10Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, I listened to this.

• 1:57:12Cameron Hanes?

  Right, the 10 to 12, who knows? But going for those big goals, so it's like, you are going to go for, and there's a chance maybe you don't win if you're going, if you're in UTMB, that's, that's okay, because hey, that's how it works. It's like you stepped up, here's where you're at, what do I need to do to, just like Jelly Roll, sell this, sell out stadiums, it's like, that's part of it. So, yeah, I know you're just gonna, I don't know, I don't know what's gonna happen, but that's gonna be fine.

• 1:57:41Speaker 01

  I don't know what's gonna happen either.

• 1:57:42Cameron Hanes?

  Fun to find out, but I'm not worried about it at all. I think it's gonna be, I think it's gonna be the next thing that takes you, helps you ascend.

• 1:57:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, I hope so.

• 1:57:50Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:57:51Cameron Hanes?

  I'm pumped.

• 1:57:52Speaker 01

  Thanks.

• 1:57:52Cameron Hanes?

  I'm pumped for it.

• 1:57:53Speaker 01

  I'm also pumped.

• 1:57:53Cameron Hanes?

  Did you have any more, James? That was it. Okay. So look at this. Remember this thing?

• 1:58:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, I remember.

• 1:58:01Cameron Hanes?

  It's what you shot so well.

• 1:58:03Speaker 01

  So cool. I know.

• 1:58:04Cameron Hanes?

  So this is.

• 1:58:04Speaker 01

  Love this thing.

• 1:58:05Cameron Hanes?

  This is your bow.

• 1:58:06Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:58:07Cameron Hanes?

  You're like a bow master with it already, but hopefully you and Killian can get together and do some shooting.

• 1:58:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, I already texted him.

• 1:58:13Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. And yeah, it's been, man, I am so thankful for you and for the four days we spent together and for all I've learned from you and just to be able to see the impact you have on, you know, this community that I, you know, this is where I, this is my home. So to see the impact you had, you know, last year it was Courtney, this year it's you. And it's just like, we're so lucky that you, I don't know, dedicated so much time to just, just being here. And I'm, I'm just very grateful.

• 1:58:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I mean, yeah, thank you for sharing your life with me. It's been incredible. So, and yeah, I think the two things that I learned about Cameron Hanes is, well, three things. A, your name is Cameron. Of course I knew this.

• 1:59:00Cameron Hanes?

  There's one.

• 1:59:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's one. But like, fast and like, just really kind. I think you're a very kind person. And I, I, yeah, I appreciate that you use your success to help uplift other people and like, give to those people. And I mean, it, I, I forever will just be flabbergasted by like, this gift that you've given me. So yeah, so thank you for being a kind person.

• 1:59:29Cameron Hanes?

  Well, I care about you. I want you to win.

• 1:59:32Speaker 01

  Thanks.

• 1:59:34Cameron Hanes?

  But more, I want you to be happy and keep kicking ass. So.

• 1:59:36Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:59:37Cameron Hanes?

  Thank you, Rachel.

• 1:59:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, thank you.

• 1:59:39Cameron Hanes?

  All right, guys. Keep hammering.