From the Archives: Maggie Gyllenhaal

Maggie Gyllenhaal's in a good place right now, at least as far as work and family go. Her latest starring role is as a troubled teacher named Lisa Spinelli in The Kindergarten Teacher. It's an unsettling portrayal of, as Gyllenhaal tells Alec, the "f***ing dire" consequences of "starving a vibrant woman's mind." In the film, Lisa's mind-starvation manifests in an unhealthy, exploitative relationship with a kindergartner. It's not an easy thing to watch, and Gyllenhaal tells Alec, "I almost didn't do the movie because I thought, 'no movie is worth disturbing a child, even for a few minutes.'" But her concerns were addressed, she said yes, and the result is a performance Gyllenhaal feels really good about. In fact, she says she feels better and better about each role she takes on these days. It's from this career high that she and Alec talk about The Deuce, her college years, her alternate career in skating, and the happy joining of lives, careers, and vowels in her marriage to Peter Sarsgaard. Originally aired October 9, 2018. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

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• 3:03Alec Baldwin?

  This is Alec Baldwin, and you're listening to Here's the Thing. I admit I looked at Maggie Gyllenhaal's Wikipedia page, and it does get some things right. She was nominated for an Academy Award for her work in Crazy Heart. She did get a Golden Globe Award for her performance in the British TV show The Honourable Woman. Maggie Gyllenhaal has worked in big-budget films like The Dark Knight and Nanny McPhee, but still finds time for off-Broadway plays. She did graduate from Columbia University, and she is married to the actor Peter Sarsgaard. But she did not appear in a production of Uncle Vanya, directed by Martin Scorsese. Her new movie is The Kindergarten Teacher,

• 3:48Alec Baldwin?

  and it comes out this Friday from Netflix. I spoke with Gyllenhaal last Friday at the Hamptons International Film Festival, live at the Bay Street Theater in Sag Harbor. You were born in New York and raised in LA. And what was your childhood like in terms of film, culture, theater? Were you like a big maven and you watched everything? Or were you home watching Gilligan's Island like the rest of us?

• 4:16Speaker 06

  Well, my parents were from New York. Well, my dad was from Pennsylvania, my mom was from New York, from Brooklyn. And they were kinda new to LA. You know, they were filmmakers and they drove across the country with me when I was, I think, ten months old.

• 4:30Alec Baldwin?

  They were not there to make movies.

• 4:31Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah, and so they were lovers of movies.

• 4:36Speaker 06

  I don't know, I wasn't really allowed to watch, like, Gilligan's Island, to be honest.

• 4:42Alec Baldwin?

  Yeah, that's good.

• 4:43Speaker 06

  Strange, but I was allowed to watch Sesame Street. My mom actually was one of the people who, she was like a P.A. on Sesame Street. She was one of the people who started the electric company, so I was allowed to watch those. And The Cosby Show.

• 4:59Speaker 06

  That was what I was allowed to watch. And a little bit of Little House on the Prairie. And after Little House on the Prairie came on Chips. And I was like, I kinda, I like snuck in a little Chips.

• 5:15Alec Baldwin?

  No, what, okay. So what was it that drew you to Chips? What did you like about Chips?

• 5:20Speaker 06

  I was really, can I be honest with you?

• 5:23Alec Baldwin?

  Yeah.

• 5:23Speaker 06

  That was like one of the first, kind of like, whoa, what is this feeling I'm feeling? Type of moment.

• 5:29Alec Baldwin?

  Wow.

• 5:30Speaker 06

  With like-

• 5:31Alec Baldwin?

  Cops, motorcycles, freeway.

• 5:32Speaker 06

  Yeah, like the John Pers.

• 5:33Alec Baldwin?

  Yeah.

• 5:34Speaker 06

  And the, yeah, just the beginning, just the credits. That was like all I-

• 5:37Alec Baldwin?

  That's why I liked Gilligan's Island. Remote island, women there, Mary Ann, Ginger. It was the first time I had some of those feelings you have.

• 5:45Speaker 06

  Yeah, but then my parents, it's funny, they were, they loved movies. And every weekend, we would go see a movie for a long time. And they took us to a lot of things that I would never have taken my kids to. Like, really not appropriate.

• 6:01Alec Baldwin?

  So your parents are like, they don't want you to watch a certain kind of TV. But they want you to see, don't look now. You know what I mean? They want you to go see like really eclectic films and interesting-

• 6:09Speaker 06

  But it was really my husband who was like, oh, you haven't seen this? You haven't seen Cassavetes? You haven't seen this? You haven't seen that? And like really clued me into-

• 6:16Alec Baldwin?

  There's a movie in that.

• 6:17Speaker 06

  And also to, you know, cool seventies movies, but also like really amazing actresses. I feel like he was-

• 6:24Alec Baldwin?

  Such as?

• 6:26Speaker 06

  Well, like, he showed me all the Jenna Rollins movies. He was, he used to tell me- I feel so embarrassing saying this because it was like a sort of a, I think he was just flirting with me, but he used to say he thought I reminded him of Diane Keaton, like only in my wildest dreams. I mean, she's amazing, but he showed me some of her like great movies and um.

• 6:46Alec Baldwin?

  I went to the dinner with Peter once with another girlfriend of his and he said the same thing to her. You remind me of Diane Keaton.

• 6:53Speaker 06

  It totally works. It totally works.

• 6:56Alec Baldwin?

  It works like a charm.

• 6:57Speaker 06

  Young guys out there, yeah, keep that in your pocket.

• 7:02Alec Baldwin?

  But he's a movie nut.

• 7:03Speaker 06

  Well, he taught me, he really taught me like here's some, here's some things that, that you should see. And then still, um, we were actually joking that um, someone was telling us we had to see the Watergate documentary. And I was like, yeah, that's like a Peter date night movie. Like he's like, we have a moment together. He actually, oh, do you know that movie Gomorrah?

• 7:24Alec Baldwin?

  Yeah.

• 7:24Speaker 06

  It's an amazing movie, but it is brutal. And he's like, oh, we're, we're just about to get married right near here. I heard this movie is great. Let's go see Gomorrah.

• 7:33Alec Baldwin?

  Yeah.

• 7:34Speaker 06

  You know, and or White Ribbon, he took me on like a date night.

• 7:37Alec Baldwin?

  I had people come over for Thanksgiving one year and I go, let's watch Straw Dogs.

• 7:41Speaker 06

  Totally. You guys should go out together.

• 7:44Alec Baldwin?

  So when you, you grew up in LA and your parents are there making films and you start acting when you're there, when you're very young.

• 7:52Speaker 06

  I mean, not really. It's funny. I um, I think it's in my Wikipedia page, like some of the other very untrue things we were talking about just now.

• 8:00Alec Baldwin?

  Your Wikipedia page is a mess.

• 8:01Speaker 06

  Yeah, totally.

• 8:02Alec Baldwin?

  We're gonna get to that.

• 8:05Speaker 06

  That, that I, that my debut was in Waterland, you know, which was a movie that my dad made. And in fact, I saw Waterland just the other day because they did a screening of it at Columbia and invited my dad. And so I went up to see it. I am in Waterland for five seconds. And um, my dad had been making the movie in London and they had maybe four weeks in Pittsburgh. And I was in school in LA and it was like a way I could go see my dad. It wasn't really my film debut.

• 8:37Alec Baldwin?

  Now, when you, when you went to Columbia, where'd you go study?

• 8:40Speaker 06

  I studied English, literature.

• 8:42Alec Baldwin?

  You didn't want to study theater or drama?

• 8:44Speaker 06

  I started doing plays there. Um, I did, I did a lot. First, I mean, I, I had one teacher there who I learned a lot from. This woman Joan Rosenfels. But I don't know, I guess I was at Columbia and I sort of felt like. I'm a Columbia, like I should study Columbia does best.

• 9:04Alec Baldwin?

  Well, not acting, yeah.

• 9:05Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 9:06Alec Baldwin?

  I tell people that now, who are students, who go to degree granting universities for drama. And I say, don't just take drama and acting. Take something where you're gonna read a lot of books, philosophy, literature, history. But you're there getting, and what's the first production you do in New York, do you remember?

• 9:24Speaker 06

  Like, my first?

• 9:25Alec Baldwin?

  When you got to Columbia, you did plays, what'd you do?

• 9:28Speaker 06

  What did I do at Columbia was the first one? Oh.

• 9:33Speaker 06

  I did a student production of No Exit. With this guy who became my boyfriend, named Dante.

• 9:42Speaker 06

  Who was actually 25 and had already graduated from college.

• 9:46Alec Baldwin?

  But he was in a student production, Dante.

• 9:48Speaker 06

  Yeah. He was sweet.

• 9:50Alec Baldwin?

  He'd be in prison now, if that happened, correct?

• 9:54Speaker 06

  So I did that. I also did The Tempest, and I played Prospera.

• 9:58Alec Baldwin?

  Was Dante in that too?

• 9:59Speaker 06

  No, no, no. He didn't make it in that one.

• 10:03Speaker 06

  Um, but yeah, that was the first one, was No Exit.

• 10:06Alec Baldwin?

  When you graduated with a degree in literature, was acting the goal, was it what you wanted to do?

• 10:11Speaker 06

  Yeah, I did. I always wanted to be an actress. And I feel, I feel like, yeah, yeah, okay, yes, in college you can read, although there's so much you're supposed to read. I feel like I never had read all of it. But I feel like I really learned to write in college. And, I don't know about you, but I feel like there's been so many times where I've had, you know, lines I wanted changed, or a cut that I wanted shifted, or something I had to sort out on a set, that I had to write an email, or even have a conversation where I had to organize my thoughts before I had it. Where I think, thank God I went to college. Because I was able to say what I meant to say, you know?

• 10:55Alec Baldwin?

  Well, it helps if you have that background, because did you feel there was a progression for you in the beginning? You were timid and shy, you know, less assertive. And I want to find out, when did that begin to change? Was there a moment you sat there and you said, "I need to defend my position, and I think I know what's best for me"?

• 11:16Speaker 06

  I think, you know, I don't know that it was, I think basically it was progressive, right? Like, basically, you're right. I was younger and newer, and it was harder for me to say what I wanted, and it's gotten easier as I've had more experience. But I also think that different sets give way to a different way of working. So first, I'm a jobbing actress, and I'm trying to get jobs, and I come in for two days, or one afternoon, or whatever, and you're like, "Oh, you, okay, you want me to do it like that? Um, I know, I don't know, that doesn't sound really very good to me," but I'm afraid to say, let's say.

• 11:57Speaker 06

  Or maybe I do try to say, and I get shut down, and I accept it, and whatever. That's like, you know, it's very hard to do when you're coming in for one second. It's like going to a new school, where everybody knows each other, and you're there for an afternoon. But then, like, when I worked on Secretary, which was really early on, I mean, I was 22, I had a real point of view about what I wanted to say, and, and Steve Schoenberg, who directed it, was really interested in that. And I also think he knew that things were happening that I didn't have any idea were happening.

• 12:37Alec Baldwin?

  Wasn't all on the page?

• 12:38Speaker 06

  And also, my 22, I think I'm being very intellectual, and I've come from college, and I studied feminist theory and everything, you know, and I think I'm saying this, and I think, even he was 20 years older than me, that he was able to see, "I know, she thinks she's saying this, but this whole other thing is also happening." And, um, and he put all that in the film. But so that was a space where I felt I was totally able to-

• 13:04Alec Baldwin?

  Collaborative.

• 13:05Speaker 06

  Yes. And then I went to work on a movie after that, which I won't name, where I was totally shut down. And, and I was shocked by it.

• 13:13Alec Baldwin?

  I always remember, like, you go to a movie, and this is just, you know, my opinion, but like you do a film, and you wanna be told what to do, basically. My whole thing is, you're making the movie, what movie are you making? What, how do I fit in? I do, one of the first movies I did, I was lucky, I did this movie Working Girl with Mike Nichols, and Nichols says, "You're gonna have sex," he goes, "You're gonna have sex with this woman, and she catches you having sex, how would you have sex that are being caught?" And I go, "Well," and I try to think of like, what's the most comical, you know, thing? And he goes, he goes, and it was very gracious, he's like, "That's not a bad idea, that's not a bad idea, but what I think of really sells it, if she's just completely naked,

• 13:56Alec Baldwin?

  and you're completely naked, and she's just sitting right on top of you, just riding you." And me and the actor, we were like, "Oh." We had a much more chaste and kind of like silly version of that. And me and the girl were like, and he was like, "Okay, come, come now, clothes off, let's go." But the idea of that clarity, time-saving, somebody who comes in and says this.

• 14:16Speaker 06

  Yeah, but the thing is, well, I always use my fantasy movie I would have made with Mike Nichols as like the example of, if Mike Nichols is directing this, yes, I wanna be told exactly what to do, please. Like, I watch his movies, and I'm like, he's directing everybody. He's like pushing everybody further and deeper and funnier and wilder than they ever would go. In fact, the one time I worked with Mike Nichols was on this reading, it's not a movie or even a play that was ever produced, it was just a few-day-long reading of a play that Alan Alda wrote.

• 14:56Speaker 06

  Bob Balaban directed the reading, but Mike was sort of producing it, I guess. He came up to me after a day of rehearsal, and he just said, "She's feral."

• 15:10Speaker 06

  The character. And I've, I've often thought that was the best direction I've ever gotten because it doesn't say like, you know, I don't know, directors ever come up to you and say like, "I'm worried that we're not gonna be able to tell that you're mad because you're acting so nice and I'm worried that it's not gonna communicate," you know, "or I'm afraid that you're going too far in this direction," or "I'm afraid that you're, you know, gonna confuse people by something that you're doing." I, I have been told that before. Um, but Mike Nichols is basically going like, "Go further, like in any direction you could possibly go." Like what he said to you, you know, "Go all the way." She's feral.

• 15:52Speaker 06

  I was playing Marie Curie and he's saying like, "She's a wild animal."

• 15:57Alec Baldwin?

  She's a wild cat.

• 16:00Speaker 06

  Because the other part's taken care of, she's Marie Curie, you know.

• 16:03Alec Baldwin?

  All the French radiologists knew that back then. She was wild, that Marie Curie.

• 16:10Speaker 06

  But so I wanna be told what to do, yes, I wish for that kind of collaboration, but I don't, I don't go in expecting that it's gonna happen. I want it.

• 16:20Alec Baldwin?

  Who is a director you worked with, cause I, I think you and I maybe share this from what you said, where we're not out to, uh, um, offend anyone, but you know, think of somebody who it was really just great, you loved working with.

• 16:31Speaker 06

  Um.

• 16:32Alec Baldwin?

  Other than your current collaboration, we're gonna get to that, but another one.

• 16:35Speaker 06

  Which I did love, my current collaboration. Um, huh, I have a few that I've really loved, um.

• 16:42Alec Baldwin?

  Martin Scorsese on Vanya?

• 16:43Speaker 06

  Right, that, uh, Martin Scorsese directed supposedly, according to Wikipedia, me and my husband in a 200-seat theater in New York.

• 16:53Alec Baldwin?

  On Wikipedia, it says, she did Uncle Vanya at, at, at, uh, uh.

• 16:55Speaker 06

  At CSC.

• 16:56Alec Baldwin?

  At CSC.

• 16:57Speaker 06

  Like a tiny black box theater in New York.

• 16:59Alec Baldwin?

  And it says Martin Scorsese directed The Chekhov, and I'm go, "My god, this is like, the seismic thing that got by me." It's like, it's like someone walking up to you going, "You know the Lindbergh baby was kidnapped, right?"

• 17:09Speaker 06

  It's totally wild.

• 17:10Alec Baldwin?

  "No, I didn't know that."

• 17:11Speaker 06

  And then in this Wikipedia entry that Alec just showed me, it then goes on to quote, "A terrible review of me in the play."

• 17:19Alec Baldwin?

  Not a good section of that Wikipedia.

• 17:22Speaker 06

  No, I gotta get that.

• 17:23Alec Baldwin?

  So Scorsese did not direct Vanya?

• 17:24Speaker 06

  No, but Austin Pendleton did, and he is one of the most incredible directors I've ever worked with in my life.

• 17:30Alec Baldwin?

  Tell me why.

• 17:31Speaker 06

  Austin, um. It's funny, Austin asked me to do Uncle Vanya and he, when they offered it to me, they sent me this interview with Austin and it basically talks about this sort of incredible way that he likes to work with actors, you know, where everyone's free to respond to each other in the moment, on stage, you know, all the fantasies that actors have of a way that you could actually really work together, which rarely happens. And I was like, Austin, I'd love to do this, I'd love to work this way, you know, where it's all just reacting to the reality of the moment with the other person on stage. And how, everybody says

• 18:12Speaker 06

  that's what they want to do. How are you actually gonna do it? And he's like, well, you gotta come and work with me to find out. And the truth is, is I don't know how he created this situation where everybody on stage had deep respect for each other, even though it was clear to me that there were actors who were stronger than others, that there were, but it made no difference. You know, I know one way he did it. I remember the first day of rehearsal, he said, however you imagined Sonia, whatever fantasy you had of who Sonia was gonna be when you read this play, Sonia is her. Sonia's this person.

• 18:54Speaker 06

  And all the feelings you have about this person, about the way that that ricochets off what you anticipated when you read the play, that's all useful, but Sonia is her. And so we did create this little black box theater situation where, and I did it with my husband, and he's a brilliant actor, so that was cool. And we got to pretend we were having an affair. Both check-offs we did, we were playing people who were having affairs, which was really hot and great, you know. But I loved working with Austin. I also loved

• 19:28Speaker 06

  I loved Hugo Blick, who directed The Honorable Woman.

• 19:33Alec Baldwin?

  You got a Golden Globe for that.

• 19:35Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 19:35Alec Baldwin?

  That was, you mentioned me, that was one of the longest times you were overseas and away from home.

• 19:40Speaker 06

  Yeah, and it's funny, I really admire what you said about how, for you,

• 19:47Speaker 06

  your trust as a director's to lose.

• 19:52Speaker 06

  I wish I could be like that, but I'm not. And I go in with my guard up. And secretly, I want the deepest, most intense artistic collaboration possible, but I don't, it's not easy for me. And with Hugo, I think we were both like that. And, you know, it was eight hours of television. I'd only ever done a two-hour movie before. I didn't know how to do that. And I mean, every minute of every scene, and it's super intense.

• 20:29Alec Baldwin?

  A lot of work with somebody, to be coupled with somebody.

• 20:31Speaker 06

  Yeah, and it could have been terrible, you know? But I remember about two-thirds of the way through, somebody, I came over to him, and I just sort of said something in his ear about the scene. "Oh, I think we need to shift this, and actually, can we move this here? And could this happen over here?" Just almost shorthand at this point. And he was like, "Yeah, absolutely." And someone sitting next to him said, "Do you just do whatever she says?" And he said, he's English also, he said, "I trust her completely." Like that. And I took it in, like, whoa, actually, he was kidding, but I kind of think he does. And then, at the very end, on the very, very last day, I had this voiceover to record, which plays at the beginning of every episode. And it's basically about trust.

• 21:17Speaker 06

  And it basically, I think it says something like,

• 21:22Speaker 06

  "You have to just," I mean, not in these words, but what it meant was, "You either trust nobody, or you just jump off the cliff, and you trust." And I was like, he put me in this little room to record it, because we'd forgotten to record it. And I was like, "Hugo, do you mind if I say it to you?" And so he came in the room with me, and I basically, the subtext, I guess, of what I was saying to him was, "I trust you."

• 21:52Alec Baldwin?

  Maggie Gyllenhaal. She said in an interview that she would probably be a different person by the end of her work on The Honorable Woman.

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• 25:11Alec Baldwin?

  This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing. Sarah Calangelo directed Maggie Gyllenhaal's new movie, The Kindergarten Teacher. Gyllenhaal told me she heard about the project at a holiday party.

• 25:24Speaker 06

  Two people at the party said, have you heard about this script? The kindergarten teacher? It's coming to you. And I don't know about you, but for me, and it's great. And for me, I think it's really, really rare to read a great script. And also to have two people in one night out of nowhere to say like, there's this great script and it's coming to you. I was like, okay, okay. I was waiting every day after that for the script to come. And it took a while and when it came, I read it and I.

• 25:55Speaker 06

  I had that feeling, like you just, I've had it like three times, you know, where I was like, and also if you have seen the movie, and I won't give anything away, the ending is pretty great. And I closed the last page of the script and I was like, I want this movie, you know, and it wasn't clear to me that it was offered to me, which actually just increased my appetite for it more, of course. They say now, it always was, but I didn't know that. And one of the producer's mothers was having an operation in the hospital and like, nobody got back to me for a few days after I like really energetically raised my hand and was like, yes, please, what do I gotta do? And again, just waiting just made me want it more. And then, then they came back and they were like, well, yes, we always meant to.

• 26:38Alec Baldwin?

  And it's based on another film.

• 26:39Speaker 06

  Yeah, it's based on an Israeli movie, um, which I haven't seen.

• 26:43Alec Baldwin?

  Deliberately.

• 26:44Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah, I mean, I probably should see it now. Um, I've heard wonderful things about it and I've heard that narratively, it's very similar and yet it tells an almost entirely different story. So our movie, I think, is really about the consequences of what happens when you starve a vibrant woman's mind. Told from the point of view of a group of women filmmakers. And our conclusion is that it's fucking dire, you know, that's. And I think the Israeli movie, which has a very similar narrative,

• 27:27Speaker 06

  is, um, is much more about masculinity in Israel and art in a country at war and very different things, even though the story itself is very similar. Um, so yeah, so I got the script and then, and I signed up and then, you know, it was not easy to get our money. In fact, at Sundance, when we first premiered, I shook the hands of 50 executive producers who had, you know, all together somehow helped us cobble together the money to make it. So we spent a while, um, doing that and then we made it in 23 days in New York.

• 28:06Alec Baldwin?

  In New York. Now, when you work with, uh, this sounds like a silly thing, but I always think about this in terms of the brevity of schedules now and the pressure to shoot efficiently now, but with children, I find this very specific. And in the movie, From My Money, the young boy, what's his name?

• 28:27Speaker 06

  Jimmy, in the movie, the character, Parker.

• 28:30Alec Baldwin?

  Parker, the boy, who's, we had the funniest moment yesterday because I said, this kid's fantastic after the movie, and somebody from the festival said, well, he loves Boss Baby. He's like, how old is he, like, five?

• 28:42Speaker 06

  He's six.

• 28:43Alec Baldwin?

  Six. So we go backstage and I'm like, this is amazing. You're doing like this really hypnotic creepy drama, which is great, and I'm in Boss Baby. I mean, you and I, we have so much in common, you and I, you know, we're both in the business, different wings of the business, maybe, Parker, but we had a lot of fun with him. But when you're working with somebody, like, a lot of times, kids are performing and the kids that climb the ladder a little bit in that division, they're very, you know, they're ready to come, you know, sing Tomorrow on Broadway, and, uh, he's not.

• 29:17Speaker 06

  No.

• 29:18Alec Baldwin?

  He's very real.

• 29:20Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 29:21Alec Baldwin?

  And was that a decision you and she talked about, you and Sally?

• 29:25Speaker 06

  Yeah, I mean, I felt a couple of things very strongly. I have a child who's six and who was five when we made it, just like Parker's five. So it's hard to remember what it's like to be five. I mean, how different the world is, unless you're five, you have a five-year-old, I know, right?

• 29:40Alec Baldwin?

  Yeah.

• 29:41Speaker 06

  Or unless you're living with a five-year-old. And then you're in that mind, kind of. So I felt two things. I felt, I almost didn't do the movie at one point because I thought, no movie, no matter how much I love it or think it's important or whatever, is worth... Disturbing a child even for a few minutes. So I was like, how are we gonna do this? And I also don't think five, six-year-olds are actors. I just don't believe that. And I don't think it's fair to ask them to be actors. So I felt like, so basically, we worked in a couple of ways. I learned this from Emma Thompson, actually, who I'm in love with and who did Nanny McPhee.

• 30:25Speaker 06

  We did Nanny McPhee together and we had tons of kids. And so often, especially with the very littlest one, we would just be like, stand on the X. Now, look at that big, black X on the wall and turn your head when I say so. When I clap, turn your head and say, "I don't wanna go." And we would clap, he'd turn his head, he'd say, "I don't wanna go." And I would say, "No, no, no, sing it like me. I don't wanna go. I don't wanna go. No." And then he would just sort of repeat. I would be like, "You have to just sing it." To Parker. To Parker. Sing it. And so then he'd kind of just imitate my inflections. That was one way we worked with him, so that it was just a song. It wasn't like he actually, you can't say to a five-year-old, "I want you to get in

• 31:08Speaker 06

  touch with," the way in which you're like... But the other thing you can do with five-year-olds is that they will forget that the camera's on them, sort of. So we ran all the kindergarten stuff as if it were kindergarten. I mean, you see them singing those songs with me or painting or, you're not gonna say, "Okay, we're gonna pretend to paint or we're gonna like pretend to write X's on a piece of paper. We're just gonna do it." And we choreographed the camera. I would sort of see where the camera was going, almost like a documentary. And then I would just like scoot over to wherever the camera was and begin the scene with whoever I needed to be talking to in that scene. And then the other funny thing about kids and the like short schedule is, there were

• 31:52Speaker 06

  quite a few times where I did scenes with our first A.D. or our gaffer, who would read off-camera for me, because the little boy had to go. And I'd be like, this is really weird. But huh, you know, like the way you can trip yourself out as an actor, kind of, and you can be like, oh, there's helicopters going over all the time. We have to keep stopping in the middle. I'm really frustrated. And then all of a sudden, the frustration just goes back into the scene. So this one, I was like, oh, this is like a hairy 50-year-old guy with like this scrubby, you know, beard.

• 32:24Alec Baldwin?

  Easy now, easy now.

• 32:26Speaker 06

  No, no, our first AD, our first AD. And he's lying on the ground, slating also. And I'd be like, oh, but I'm, okay, so I'm basically talking to this child as if he's a man. You know, you just figure out the way to throw it back in. Because what else are you gonna do?

• 32:41Alec Baldwin?

  Well, I'd love it if on my next film, you would come and do that ex-acting with me. Would you be there for me? You'll be my Mira Rustova, you know, like off the set going, okay, turn, okay, and turn to me. And say, I don't want to go to prison. I don't want to go to prison for tax evasion. I don't want to go to prison for tax evasion. You know, we could do that. You'd be my acting coach. Um, the, um...

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• 34:53Speaker 11

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• 35:30Speaker 12

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• 35:41Speaker 13

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• 35:57Speaker 12

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• 36:01Alec Baldwin?

  Now, what about Sarah? How many films did she made before she made this film?

• 36:05Speaker 06

  I loved working with Sarah and it was totally different kind of experience than I had ever had before. And in some ways I like to think it's, it was a very feminine set, right? Sarah wrote and directed it. Our financiers were women. Our producers were women. It's all about a woman. But I'd worked with a lot of other women and had very different kinds of experience.

• 36:30Alec Baldwin?

  You've worked with a few women directors.

• 36:31Speaker 06

  I have, I've worked with many. I mean, even on the Deuce last season, seven out of eight directors were women, you know?

• 36:37Alec Baldwin?

  Is there a difference?

• 36:38Speaker 06

  Well, there is a difference. Yeah, there is, but that's not necessarily what made, I think, my collaboration with Sarah and our set on the kindergarten teacher so.

• 36:49Speaker 06

  I don't know, unusual, yeah, feminine. But I don't even totally know what that means. Even when I watched the movie, I'm like, this is feminine. Like, what does that mean and why? And my husband, after he saw it last night, he was like, "I wish someone would send this to Senator Flake." But I don't really know totally why, right? It's not a political movie. But it's like, somehow, it's really kind of straight, purely feminine thing. You know, it makes me think of the piano. Not this movie, I would never compare it to that. But the experience I had when I saw the piano,

• 37:32Speaker 06

  and I was like 16 or something, and I had never seen anything like it. I was like, what? Like, I guess I think in some ways,

• 37:44Speaker 06

  girls, women, my age, we get so used to having to relate to a male character. Or even, let's just say, like a sort of masculine point of view on something. We're like, yeah, yeah, that's not exactly my experience, but I could twist it around and make it relatable to me. And that muscle is very exercised, I think, in most women. We're like, yeah, yeah, I know it's not exactly my way through the world, but I could just twist a little, and it's cool, I get it. And thank God, because otherwise, we'd have very little to relate to. But then, like, when I saw the piano, I was like, whoa. I feel so relaxed, I don't have to twist anything. And I felt that way when I read Sarah's script.

• 38:28Speaker 06

  I just, like, went straight in.

• 38:30Alec Baldwin?

  When I saw this last night, what I love is that it's not a bad, I don't want to give it away, but the dynamic of the home is not all bad.

• 38:37Speaker 06

  No.

• 38:37Alec Baldwin?

  But there's things that maybe, in my mind, you know, are missing. There's things you want that are gone.

• 38:44Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 38:45Alec Baldwin?

  And connections and feelings are gone.

• 38:46Speaker 06

  No, exactly, it's a much easier movie if her home life is, like, horrible.

• 38:50Alec Baldwin?

  Really, the husband.

• 38:51Speaker 06

  If everything's just awful. Instead, she's like...

• 38:54Alec Baldwin?

  See, I'm not going to give away the scene on the phone.

• 38:56Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 38:56Alec Baldwin?

  And your husband's like, he's ready to, you know... Do a little dance with you and then the phone rings?

• 39:01Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah.

• 39:02Alec Baldwin?

  Oh, my god.

• 39:02Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 39:03Alec Baldwin?

  Oh, my god.

• 39:04Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 39:04Alec Baldwin?

  Crazy.

• 39:05Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 39:05Alec Baldwin?

  Really upsetting scene.

• 39:07Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 39:07Alec Baldwin?

  Like, so fucked up.

• 39:08Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 39:09Alec Baldwin?

  Yeah.

• 39:09Speaker 06

  It's true.

• 39:11Alec Baldwin?

  There's a couple of really fucked up scenes in this movie. It's incredible.

• 39:14Speaker 06

  It's true.

• 39:15Alec Baldwin?

  Um, one more thing before we take some questions. Do we have the mics poised for the questions? We do? Okay, one last question I have for you, which is, so you're doing The Deuce, you're on HBO. Uh, how did that happen? Meaning, how did they reel you in? I mean, I'm not just saying this for your benefit. You're one of the most admired movie actresses in the business. Everybody says this, everybody, you're gorgeous and you're talented and you're all these things. So when you go to do the TV thing, how did they hook you?

• 39:43Speaker 06

  Well, huh, I just, it's so funny, though, because, like, in the first three episodes, which was all I read of The Deuce, Candy didn't really have all that much to do, you know?

• 39:52Alec Baldwin?

  That's why you took the job?

• 39:55Speaker 06

  Um, no, but it's weird, because I was just talking with Peter about this when we were walking on the beach here today. I was like, yeah, when I first, there wasn't, she turns so amazing. I mean, I love playing Candy, I really do. Um, but I just had, like, a feeling. I don't know. I was, it was David Simon and George Pelikanos. I mean, they made some pretty damn good TV. And I had done The Honorable Woman with Hugo, who I told you I loved so much. So it wasn't my first time in TV. I wasn't, like, snobby about TV. I wanted it. You know, I wanted a good job, you know, that I could count on, but also...

• 40:32Alec Baldwin?

  Stay home.

• 40:33Speaker 06

  Yes, and to be home. But also, I was like, I don't know, I just had a good feeling. I was like, I just want to play this woman. I want to, I want to try it. I want to see. I want to see if I can do this. It was so far outside of my experience to play a sex worker in 1971. Um...

• 40:50Speaker 06

  I just like liked her. I just had a I just had like this feeling about it.

• 40:56Alec Baldwin?

  You signed for three seasons.

• 40:58Speaker 06

  Three seasons.

• 40:58Alec Baldwin?

  Not a long contract.

• 40:59Speaker 06

  No.

• 41:00Alec Baldwin?

  That's cool.

• 41:00Speaker 06

  And I guess I, well, and, you know, there was this whole thing where I was like, guys, I I've only read three. There's gonna be 24. How do I know? I mean, I think you guys are all right, but

• 41:14Speaker 06

  what if this becomes something, I mean, I've, I never had signed on to something like that before. Well, that's true.

• 41:19Alec Baldwin?

  The T word.

• 41:20Speaker 06

  But again, like I said, I don't trust that well, so I, I asked them if I could be a producer and, and the thing is, is when, and everyone said to me, you are never gonna get that. On a big HBO show, you've never produced television before, you didn't develop it, like, good luck, Maggie. But then they were like, okay, let's be partners.

• 41:40Alec Baldwin?

  Good for you.

• 41:40Speaker 06

  And, um, and I was like, oh, wow.

• 41:43Alec Baldwin?

  Good for you. Good for you. Um, do we have, uh, who do we have over here? Yes, sir.

• 41:50Speaker 14

  How did you prepare for your role as a teacher? Did you interview teachers? Did you shadow teachers?

• 41:55Speaker 06

  Um, well, I, yeah, I felt in this movie where this woman ends up doing a lot of really problematic things, the movie only really works if you are on her side for a really, really long time. You're on her side even when she's crossing lines. You would never imagine you would be on anyone's side while they were crossing. Um, and so, you know, it was important to me that she be a great teacher, like a really extraordinary teacher. So, uh, yeah, my daughter was, um, I had one older daughter, uh, that I had a daughter who was in preschool and I asked her preschool teacher, do you know like a great kindergarten teacher who's not at this school? Cause I didn't really wanna mix it with my kid's school. And she recommended this woman on the

• 42:40Speaker 06

  Upper West Side and I went up there all the time, sat in her classroom. I got so much from her. She had dinner with Sarah and I once and gave us like some more tips, but I sat, I, I, I, yeah, shadowed her. I, I sat there for hours. I learned a ton from her. She was great.

• 42:55Alec Baldwin?

  Um, um, uh, somebody up there in the back?

• 42:59Speaker 15

  We saw your film last night and your performance was stunning and I did wanna thank you for that. I'm wondering.

• 43:06Speaker 15

  You picked such unconventional roles. I can't help but wonder if the role that you felt you executed the best, was it the same role that your critics thought you executed the best? You know, from inside out, does, you know, do those two things match up for you?

• 43:23Alec Baldwin?

  Do you and your critics think the same?

• 43:26Speaker 06

  Well, one thing I think is interesting, you say that they're unconventional roles, but um, I just, when you said that word, I thought, actually, the thing I like love about the few roles that I've done that I feel the most proud of, that I think I executed the best, as you put it, I think are actually sort of the most human people. So maybe the most conventional in terms of being like we actually are. And I know the woman in the movie does things that many of us would never, ever do, but in so many other ways, she's like, I relate to her so much. You know, she's, she totally could be a friend of mine.

• 44:11Speaker 06

  And even the ways she's confused, or the fact that she's confused, I understand, I have compassion for. I don't know, in terms of, I don't know about, about whether, I guess I would say this, recently, I would say since The Honorable Woman, I think, I've had this feeling where I'm most proud of the last thing I've done, which I'm, I feel really grateful for. Like, I feel like, okay, I'm making the choices that are right for me right now. Cause I'm, I feel like I keep, I don't know, learning about what I'm doing as time goes on.

• 44:54Speaker 06

  I'm sure I'll take a dip and take a wrong route for a while. But at the moment, it's been like, I feel, yeah, the most proud of the, of the most recent work.

• 45:07Alec Baldwin?

  I had an actor once say to me, who was this very funny guy, older guy when he was very good, he said, "Remember one thing about reviews. He said, "When they say you're bad, you're never as bad as they say you are. I mean, if it's not great, you're never as bad. And when they say you're really good, you're great, you're always even better than they said you were. You're even better than that. They never get it right. They don't know how."

• 45:27Speaker 06

  I know. That's so funny that like, I gotta like, take that little piece of that Wikipedia thing and like, put it up somewhere. This is so mean.

• 45:35Alec Baldwin?

  With the Daily News.

• 45:37Speaker 06

  The Daily News, yeah. They hated my Elena.

• 45:40Alec Baldwin?

  Uh, we, uh, right there here, sir, who's straining out of your chair. The restroom is down to the right, sir.

• 45:48Speaker 14

  How do you define feminine and masculine?

• 45:52Speaker 06

  No, see, I can't. That's what I'm saying. I don't want to be reductive about it, and I can't define feminine and masculine. I'm just trying to say there's like, something, and it doesn't, okay, oh, I mean, I don't want to get like, super, this is just things that are on my mind right now. Like, what does it mean to make a feminine movie? I don't know the answer to that. I just know that if you're living in a masculine world, fundamentally, which I'd say it's pretty clear we are, even a misogynistic world, right? It's, it doesn't, just because you're a woman who directs a movie, or just because you're a woman who writes a movie, doesn't mean it's feminine, right? You have to twist yourself and fit yourself all your life. And like, like, Virginia Woolf in A Room of One's Own

• 46:35Speaker 06

  has this whole thing about how like, even, even Charlotte Bronte, she said, she's not really making purely feminine work, because she's like, hiding her paper under her sewing or whatever. And so, that's what I mean when I say, "I saw the piano, and it had some like, like, effect on me when I was 16." There, I did this interview with, um, Trevor Noah, you know, it was about the deuce, actually. It wasn't about the kindergarten teacher, but he'd seen the preview for the kindergarten teacher, and he was like, "I saw the preview." He said, "Is it a thriller, or is it like, an intimate movie about a woman's mind, or is it like, a horror movie?" And, and I, I, I loved that, and I keep coming back to

• 47:19Speaker 06

  it, because I think, it's not any of those. It's new. And I think it might be new, because it's feminine.

• 47:30Speaker 06

  It doesn't tick the boxes we're used to. But again, I don't know, I'm a little confused about this.

• 47:36Alec Baldwin?

  We have just time for a couple more quick ones. The lady right there on the end will do two more, two more quick ones.

• 47:43Speaker 16

  I have a very quick question. If you weren't an actor, what would you do? Or what would you want to do?

• 47:49Speaker 06

  Oh, man, I'm really, I'm not good at very many other things. I mean, I'm like an okay cook. I have a friend who's a professor, which I'd love to think like maybe I could like be an English teacher or something, but I wouldn't be any good at it. I mean, are you good at other things?

• 48:08Alec Baldwin?

  So good.

• 48:11Alec Baldwin?

  Whatever I'm good at, I'm so much better at than you would ever believe. I'm so good. And I'm not really that bad at anything, but I... Were you really, did you ever have any thoughts about...

• 48:21Speaker 06

  Maybe professional ice skating?

• 48:28Alec Baldwin?

  Wow. Um, yes.

• 48:31Speaker 17

  Okay, considering what you've said about literature and being an English major, and you're probably a great reader, if you could option a book and do your movie, but not be in it, what would you do?

• 48:41Speaker 06

  Well, I did actually just option a book, and I'm not going to be in it. I'm adapting it, and I'm going to direct it. And it's called The Lost Daughter by Elena Ferrante.

• 48:56Alec Baldwin?

  All right, so my last question is a two-parter, because we're gonna be out of time. My last question is a quick two-parter. Now, I had a very fleeting role in Looming Tower with your husband, got to work with your husband for the first time, Peter Sarsgaard. And my first question, which is a silly question, is your husband really as sweet as he seems?

• 49:12Speaker 06

  Yeah, my husband is...

• 49:13Alec Baldwin?

  He's one of the loveliest men I've ever met in my life.

• 49:14Speaker 06

  He's a damn good husband.

• 49:16Alec Baldwin?

  He's a sweet guy.

• 49:17Speaker 06

  I'm thrilled with him.

• 49:18Alec Baldwin?

  And what's that like for you, being two people who are working all the time, very successful movie actors? That's, uh, is it wonderful to be with somebody who understands what you're going through? I'm married to him, and it's not in the business, and sometimes it's like...

• 49:30Speaker 06

  Yes, like sometimes I'll be like, when are you coming home? I don't understand. When are you coming home? Like, we had planned such and such, and he's like, Maggie, you know I don't know the answer to that. You know, I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 49:41Alec Baldwin?

  Yeah, my wife is like, my wife sometimes is like, Alec, why are you so dramatic?

• 49:47Alec Baldwin?

  Duh. Anyway, Maggie Gyllenhaal, everybody.

• 50:06Alec Baldwin?

  And now an update. After a newspaper story appeared about this conversation, Gyllenhaal's Wikipedia page has been revised. Maggie Gyllenhaal's new movie, The Kindergarten Teacher, comes out on Netflix October 12th. I'm Alec Baldwin. Here's the thing is brought to you by iHeart Radio.

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