Calling the Shots w/ Katie Nolan

This week, sports expert Katie Nolan (Casuals Podcast) joins Laci as they break down the Michigan State football sign-stealing scam fronted by Conner Stallion. Stallion was a noted Michigan super fan who was caught stealing signs to help his favorite team win the season. Stay Stallions, y'all. Check out Katie Nolan's podcast, Casuals, wherever you get your podcasts https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/casuals-with-katie-nolan/id1788997372 CON-gregation, catch Laci's new TV Show, Scam Goddess, now on Freeform and Hulu! Follow on Instagram: Scam Goddess Pod: @scamgoddesspod Laci Mosley: @divalaci Katie Nolan: @natiekolan Research by Kathryn Doyle SOURCES https://apnews.com/article/michigan-sign-stealing-95693e26541f6181320bd31472cf9529 https://www.cbsnews.com/detroit/news/new-documentary-connor-stalions-michigan-sign-stealing-scandal/ https://abcnews.go.com/Sports/sources-michigan-staffer-tickets-11-big-ten-schools/story?id=104231259 https://theconversation.com/college-athletes-still-are-not-allowed-to-be-paid-by-universities-heres-why-220996 Netflix: ‘Untold: Sign Stealer’

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:03Speaker 00

  That sound, that's pro squash. Some of the fastest rallies in sport played inches from the crowd. The National Squash League is back in full swing for season four. The sport is heading to the 2028 Olympics for the first time, and you can see it up close right now in a city near you. Watch every match for free on YouTube. Search National Squash League and hit subscribe or follow live updates on Instagram at NSL.Sport.

• 0:30Speaker 01

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• 1:20Laci Mosley?

  What's poppin', congregation? It's your girl, Lacey Mosley, AKA Scam Goddess, and we're back for another installment of the podcast all about robbery, fraud, and those who practice it. Sometimes we love them, sometimes we hate them. Also, I will remind you, this is a comedy show, because some of y'all forget. My guest today is known for her sharp commentary on sports and culture. She formerly hosted weekly podcasts for ESPN and won a Sports Emmy Award, okay? For her show, Garbage Time, and has been nominated for more. I know that's right. I know that's right. This genius girl is a sports journalist and television personality, and today she's the host of Casuals, a sports podcast for everyone.

• 2:04Laci Mosley?

  I couldn't be more thrilled to welcome the sports queen Katie Nolan into the congregation today. Katie, thank you so much for being here.

• 2:12Speaker 03

  Lacey, thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here, so honored to meet you.

• 2:16Laci Mosley?

  Same. And also, this is such a perfect episode for you because you are a sports queen, an Emmy sports queen.

• 2:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:24Laci Mosley?

  Yeah.

• 2:25Speaker 03

  You know, important to note about the sports Emmy, I point this out all the time, it is the same size as like a regular Emmy. It's not like smaller or anything, so it's basically the same.

• 2:32Laci Mosley?

  I know, that's right.

• 2:35Laci Mosley?

  She said, "No, it's an Emmy. It's an Emmy."

• 2:38Speaker 03

  No doubt about it. It is, it is regulation size.

• 2:41Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, because people be trying to play. They be like, "Oh, well, it's a daytime Emmy," or "It's a this Emmy." No, it's a-

• 2:46Speaker 03

  It was a local Emmy.

• 2:47Laci Mosley?

  Emmy?

• 2:48Speaker 03

  It's Emmy, yeah.

• 2:49Laci Mosley?

  Period. Do you have an Emmy?

• 2:50Speaker 03

  Period. Yep.

• 2:51Laci Mosley?

  Exactly. Yes, I love it. So I do have to ask you, Katie, what is your relationship with scams? Do you love them? Do you hate them?

• 3:01Speaker 03

  I love them. I love hating them. I, I feel very passionately about scams and scammers. I think they're, you know, especially depending on who they're scamming, I think they're like the lowest of the low a lot of the times. It's like preying on vulnerable people who, um, you know, I'm thinking of like, uh, Belle Gibson is the first one who comes to mind, like scamming people by telling them that you're dying and actually you're not, and you're turning that into a, uh, but I'm fascinated by them. And I think, I like to think it's because I am not capable of doing that myself. So I'm just kind of fascinated by looking at how like a scam, how anybody like comes up with the idea

• 3:42Speaker 03

  and decides I'm gonna, I'm just gonna scam now, and the fact that they think that just like repercussions will never come, I envy that part the most. I wish I had the ability to just like-

• 3:54Laci Mosley?

  I don't want no repercussions.

• 3:55Speaker 03

  I just, I wish I had the ability to just do and never go like, "Well, what would happen if I did this?" Like, I wish I had that. And I feel like scammers have that in an abundance. And so I'm always fascinated by them just going, "Yeah, I'm gonna do it." And, um, and no one's ever gonna catch me. It's always, you know, fascinating to watch that downfall.

• 4:13Laci Mosley?

  I mean, that's generally how I feel as well. There are some scammers that I do fuck with just because they were scamming up, like they were scamming greedy corporations, people who are already thieving from us. Like, I'm like, "Okay, I fuck with it," but-

• 4:27Speaker 03

  That, yes, exactly. That is important.

• 4:29Laci Mosley?

  If it's a scam that, like you said, is punching down, I'm absolutely on the same wave. But they are interesting, and I do want to know what they do and like, if I could get away with it, oh. But as I said on Good Morning America, I am not a criminal. Which was very weird to start a conversation with Michael Strahan, telling him I'm not a criminal.

• 4:50Speaker 03

  He does need to know, though. You have to tell him. You just gotta say, "Listen, Michael, don't get the wrong impression. I'm interested in them. I am not one of them."

• 4:57Laci Mosley?

  I'm not one of them. And I do have to bring up y'all's scam goddess. The television show is still airing, Wednesday's on Freeform and Thursday on Hulu. So get into it. I love the show. I've been watching it. Spread the gospel. Let the girls know. We've been trending on Hulu, so you know, like, let's keep it up. But yeah, that's me shamelessly plugging in the middle of the show, but...

• 5:21Speaker 03

  It's your podcast. That's what it's for. Absolutely.

• 5:25Laci Mosley?

  But then they get the visuals. Like, people were mad at Beyonce for not getting no visuals. I'm like, "I'm giving you the visuals. I didn't say you are the visuals, okay?" But, so your relationship with scams is more like, you like to on-look and see what's going on? It's like a voyeur.

• 5:43Speaker 03

  I like to hear like a picked apart story about a scam. Like how it came to be, how they pulled it off, and then what happened when they got found out. Like, that is my perfect type of content. I like to hear about it and try to like, put myself in their shoes. And be like, "Well, how did you even..." And then I just like to watch the mess that it creates.

• 6:02Laci Mosley?

  Yeah. I feel like that's like, it always reminds me of Cinemax. And I've said this before, like, you know they used to have like, Skinamax After Dark? And they would have like, TV shows like Sex Court. And it would be like, "Oh, the judge is calling the lawyer into the chambers." And then they start doing the fake sex. But then the stenographer comes up to the window and she's watching like, "Ooh." And I'm like, "I'm the stenographer."

• 6:31Laci Mosley?

  Watching like, "Ooh."

• 6:35Laci Mosley?

  That's how I watch scams. I'm like, ooh.

• 6:38Speaker 03

  Like, I'm interested and they're doing it and I don't, but I'm not, and I just-

• 6:42Laci Mosley?

  I'm not gonna join, but-

• 6:44Speaker 03

  Right, right, right, right. And I was just doing my job. I was just here to do my job, but if this is happening, I'll come take a peek at it, see what's up.

• 6:50Laci Mosley?

  I went to how finished. I gotta drop off the, you know, these-

• 6:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 6:53Laci Mosley?

  These reports, but... So, let's get into the historic hoodwink because you are a sports expert.

• 7:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, you know, I like sports. I like sports and I hate when people call me an expert only because this isn't your fault. Sports is so like, who won the World Series then in 1952? And you're like, I don't know. I don't know and I don't care. Um, I like sports a normal amount. So like, I'm, I'm into it. I like the culture of it. I, um, I'm not, I'm not like a-

• 7:25Laci Mosley?

  I would still say expert. I don't feel like being an almanac makes you like an expert.

• 7:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, fair.

• 7:31Laci Mosley?

  Like, okay, you remembered a bunch of facts. Ooh, look at you.

• 7:35Speaker 03

  Girl, in the sports world, it is like, uh, it's very important to them for whatever effing reason. Um, but you're right, to a non-sports audience, uh, fine, sports expert, makes sense. Sure. I wear that with pride and the shoulders back.

• 7:48Laci Mosley?

  Yes, come on. That's, that's your scam.

• 7:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly.

• 7:53Laci Mosley?

  Oh, wait, wait, wait. Before we get into the historic hoodwink, I have to ask you, what is your opinion on LeBron dropping out of the All-Star game like, like two hours before?

• 8:10Speaker 03

  Dude.

• 8:11Laci Mosley?

  Was that a scam?

• 8:12Speaker 03

  I mean, kind of. The NBA All-Star game needs to figure it out. It's so boring. And especially this year, we saw LeBron drop out, but also like a couple of like big players in the skills competition, figured out that if you read the rules like to the letter of the law, you could just like not shoot the ball and win. And so they were just like not even participating in the thing they're literally there to do. So, I mean, the LeBron thing- Look, we're seeing more and more like players don't want to participate in these events. And like, on one hand, I get it. On one hand, I'm like, you know, pay me if I'm gonna be play, like, give me a, make it worth my time.

• 8:49Laci Mosley?

  Right. Um, because also you're risking injury, and if you're in the season, it's like...

• 8:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. And I get it, but it's also like, well, then we need to, uh, use the, um, like, the players' union that we have and the collective bargaining that they do with the league to like, okay, let's talk about changing the All-Star game then. Because if like, you, and also, maybe you could have told us like two days before. Maybe you could have let people, um, just like, adjust to the fact you weren't gonna be doing it.

• 9:17Laci Mosley?

  See, I have a theory.

• 9:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, what's that?

• 9:19Laci Mosley?

  I have a theory that he told Adam Silver, like, "I'm not gonna play. Like, I'm not gonna do it." And then Adam was like, "Okay, but don't tell nobody because we gotta get these ticket sales and we need the girls to come. We need the girls to pull up."

• 9:33Speaker 03

  It's a very, very good theory.

• 9:34Laci Mosley?

  Okay, so then, it's like, two hours before, whatever, you'd be like, "Oh, my leg!", like SpongeBob, like, "My leg!", like...

• 9:45Speaker 03

  "I think I'm sick."

• 9:46Laci Mosley?

  Right, and then everybody's already there, so it's, you know...

• 9:49Speaker 03

  Right.

• 9:50Laci Mosley?

  What's the difference?

• 9:51Speaker 03

  We're not gonna cancel it. Nobody can be mad. We must go on with the show.

• 9:53Laci Mosley?

  Right.

• 9:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's a good, um, it's a pretty good theory.

• 9:56Laci Mosley?

  And then, wasn't it changed, like, the format this year, and it was like, young versus old, or something?

• 10:01Speaker 03

  I think they did, I think they do a, um, a Rising Stars game that's like that, but maybe not. I don't, I didn't watch it. I didn't care.

• 10:09Laci Mosley?

  I didn't watch it either.

• 10:10Speaker 03

  It's an NBA All-Star game. I'm like, who cares? It's not another interesting thing to happen.

• 10:14Laci Mosley?

  And I used to love it!

• 10:15Speaker 03

  I know, I know.

• 10:16Laci Mosley?

  Because, girl, after the, after the All-Star game, when I was younger, like, we would go to the club, the club, and all the NBA players would be there, all the celebrities would be there, and then we'd be sneaking in. We were not nobody, but um, I remember like we were in black dresses and we pretended we were bottle service and that's how we got in the VIP at the 4040 Club. And I was with Beyonce and Jay-Z and all, and all the sports players. And I was like, yes. Yeah, it was a good scam.

• 10:45Speaker 03

  And now it's-

• 10:45Laci Mosley?

  But now it's like, nobody cares and I didn't even know what was happening.

• 10:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, the dunk contest, I think, was where it all started to go wrong. When they stopped, like, people stopped wanting to participate in the dunk contest because they didn't want to be embarrassed. They didn't want to like-

• 10:58Laci Mosley?

  Yeah.

• 10:58Speaker 03

  -put themselves out there and not be able to perform. So then it now, basically, the dunk contest is a bunch of guys you've never heard of who barely play in the league, but they love to dunk. They're like dunk specialists. And so you're just like, okay.

• 11:11Laci Mosley?

  Dunk specialists. We had to bring in the specialists to do the dunk.

• 11:15Speaker 03

  It's weird. It's weird. They need to fix it and sports media will spend the next four days arguing about how to fix it. It's a very exciting week for sports television.

• 11:22Laci Mosley?

  It is. Also, they need to bring it back because it was a hoochie holiday.

• 11:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 11:28Laci Mosley?

  Like, the hoochies would be out trying to get a baller. Like, it was, it was a big spectacle. People were everywhere. Yeah, it used to be like fun. So I hope they get that fixed because it was enjoyable.

• 11:42Speaker 03

  Bring it back. Make All-Star Weekend great again while we're supposedly doing that to things.

• 11:47Laci Mosley?

  Right. Do it for the hoochies.

• 11:49Speaker 03

  Yes. If no, if for nothing else. Because I know Fashion Nova was probably hit really hard by this. Yeah, they're really suffering.

• 11:57Laci Mosley?

  Nobody was buying dresses.

• 11:59Speaker 03

  This is a Fashion Nova recession. They really planned for a lot more purchasing around this time of year.

• 12:04Laci Mosley?

  Right. You know they sent out their All-Star Game texts and the girls were not responding. So, you know, do it, do it for the hoochies. Do it for Fashion Nova. Do it for the economy.

• 12:16Speaker 03

  Yes, please.

• 12:16Laci Mosley?

  The bottle service economy, down, down bad, okay? Oh, I had to get that off my chest.

• 12:24Speaker 03

  I'm so glad. No, I'm actually really glad we got that out there.

• 12:27Laci Mosley?

  Yes.

• 12:34Speaker 00

  That sound? That's pro squash. Some of the fastest rallies in sport played inches from the crowd. The National Squash League is back in full swing for season four. The sport is heading to the 2028 Olympics for the first time, and you can see it up close right now in a city near you. Watch every match for free on YouTube. Search National Squash League and hit subscribe or follow live updates on Instagram at NSL.Sport.

• 13:02Speaker 01

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• 13:33Laci Mosley?

  So let's get into historic hoodwinkings. This is where I'll regale Katie with a famous Connor Caper group of criminals. We don't know yet. Maybe we love them, maybe we hate them. We'll see along the way. Um, but this was in 2023. The University of Michigan's football team was undefeated, having one of their best seasons of all time until a low-level staffer named Connor Stallions. I like that last name Stallion. Maybe I'm saying it the wrong Stallons, Stallions?

• 14:02Speaker 03

  No, I think it was Stallions.

• 14:03Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, Stallions. Oh, yeah, I have a pronunciation here. Okay, we right. Uh, remember that different, y'all. I got it right the first time. So until this low-level staffer Connor Stallions, bootleg video cheating scandal almost brought all of college football to a standstill. Let's see, because I'm curious, like, bootleg video? Um, what were you doing?

• 14:27Speaker 03

  Could be anything, right? It's gonna be the least interesting version of what you're picturing, I promise.

• 14:33Laci Mosley?

  So no one's ever been more obsessed with college football than 29-year-old Connor Stallions. Yes, that's his real name. Connor was born obsessed with college football, specifically the University of Michigan Wolverines. His parents had both gone to Michigan and taught him to worship their football players and to hate their rivals, Ohio State, with a burning passion. This was his religion. They were like, "We worship Michigan, amen, and Ohio State is the devil and we rebuke them."

• 15:04Speaker 03

  I mean, yeah, much more common than you would think. This is the religion of many families, I believe, across the United States, college football.

• 15:12Laci Mosley?

  Yes, I was watching, um, this show on Netflix that was like about old people love. And like, they had like people in their like 70s, like going on dates and stuff. I can't remember the name of it. Jess, if you could Google this, it's like Netflix.

• 15:29Speaker 03

  I hope it's just called Old People Love.

• 15:33Laci Mosley?

  But they were like going out on dates and shit and, um, there was a woman on there who was obsessed with, um, god damn it, what university was it? I want to say Auburn, but she was obsessed with this university, right? And the men that she was dating, she was like, "They have to like this university, like, cause like this is my religion." And like, she was not kidding.

• 15:58Speaker 03

  I respect it, especially in an old woman where you're like, "Oh, this hasn't been a, probably a very kind landscape to you for a long time, sports." So I'm glad you have like a devotion religiously to a team.

• 16:10Laci Mosley?

  But when you're older, I'm like, you gotta, what are your, I'm already giving up on deal breakers that I had, you know? Like, I used to be like, "I don't like club guys." Now I'm like, "Okay, if you go to the club like two times a month, that's..."

• 16:22Speaker 03

  Two times a week is fine, yeah, yeah.

• 16:26Laci Mosley?

  I used to be like, "I don't like women with tiny tattoos, cause they always crazy." And now I'm like, "Hmm, maybe a little crazy would be fine in my life." Like, I'm already making, you know, um, downgrades. And she was like, "No, I'm not gonna accept it." Like, she stopped dating one guy.

• 16:42Speaker 03

  It was a non-negotiable. She's like, "Absolutely not." She has, she's like, "You can be short, you can be ugly, but you have to love Auburn," or whatever. And I, you know.

• 16:51Laci Mosley?

  She was like, "I will die alone. Like, don't, don't play with me, okay? Cause I will be at the football game, dead, honey, okay?"

• 17:00Laci Mosley?

  That's where I wanna die.

• 17:03Laci Mosley?

  It's called the later daters. Thank you, Jess.

• 17:05Speaker 03

  Later daters.

• 17:06Laci Mosley?

  The later daters. Okay.

• 17:08Speaker 03

  I think old people love was better, if I'm honest, but, you know, whatever.

• 17:11Laci Mosley?

  I feel like old people love is rude. Later daters is like cute.

• 17:15Speaker 03

  Sure, but yeah, but it's like cute in a condescending way. We're like, later daters, I'm out of time. I'm running out of time and I wanna be loved. Maybe we could call this, please love me before I go.

• 17:28Laci Mosley?

  Like, one foot in the grave, one foot on a date, okay?

• 17:35Speaker 03

  Perfect.

• 17:35Laci Mosley?

  Love that for them. Back to Connor. Connor didn't dream of playing for Michigan. He dreamt of coaching the team. So at age seven, he dressed as a Michigan head coach, Bo Schimbecker. Schimbeckler? There we go. Bo Schimbecker. Y'all got some names for Halloween. So he dressed as like a coach for Halloween. And let's look at this guy. He's giving coach energy. Like, he looks like a football coach. He's got the...

• 18:03Speaker 03

  He certainly doesn't look like a football player. I'll tell you that.

• 18:06Laci Mosley?

  And he's got the beard that's, you know, doing, trying his best. That's a 2025 beard if I've ever seen one. Like, we're just all trying our best.

• 18:16Speaker 03

  It's just, it's like half here and it lets you know that it had the idea to show up, but it doesn't show up fully in a way that he can even really do anything with it. So...

• 18:26Laci Mosley?

  It's like a side boob.

• 18:27Speaker 03

  It's like a, in bikinis with like the underboob now. Like, that's all I'm getting of the, oh my God, look at him as a coach for Halloween. I kinda respect anybody and like, respect has a little asterisk next to it. But if you're a kid and instead of dreaming for the obvious thing to do with football, which is, I'm gonna play it, to just like kinda know yourself so well that early and go like, well, I'm not gonna play it, but I could coach it probably.

• 18:52Laci Mosley?

  Right.

• 18:53Speaker 03

  Uh, that probably saved him a lot of time in his life to just kind of cut that step out and go straight to the doorier side of sports.

• 19:00Laci Mosley?

  And this is a cute Halloween costume with the Michigan hat and the, and the big headphones. I... I'm into it. I like it.

• 19:09Speaker 03

  And easy. If you're a parent, that's easy to pull off. Put the kid in a sweatshirt and pants and just put a headset on his head. Boom, there's your costume.

• 19:17Laci Mosley?

  Take him out to the neighborhood, let him trick or treat, it's over.

• 19:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, put a little name tag on him so people stop asking.

• 19:23Laci Mosley?

  Right. And they probably gonna love it because they love the hat. But I feel like, I feel like he was in one Little League game and he got hit and he was like, you know what, I am a coach.

• 19:35Speaker 03

  You know what, that bench does seem more my speed.

• 19:38Laci Mosley?

  Yeah.

• 19:39Speaker 03

  Perhaps I'll spend my time there.

• 19:41Laci Mosley?

  I can't wait for somebody to pour Gatorade on me when we win, like, yeah. I love that.

• 19:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, like the way a player dreams of lifting up a trophy. He dreams of being drenched in Gatorade.

• 19:50Laci Mosley?

  He dreams of being drenched in Gatorade.

• 19:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 19:53Laci Mosley?

  He is at home like pouring Gatorade on himself.

• 19:57Speaker 03

  In the shower and they're like, what are you doing?

• 20:00Laci Mosley?

  I'm getting ready for my future, mom.

• 20:01Speaker 03

  I'm practicing.

• 20:02Laci Mosley?

  Okay, I gotta make sure I don't get it in my eyes.

• 20:05Speaker 03

  That's true.

• 20:07Laci Mosley?

  So Connor enrolled in the Naval Academy at age 18. Not because he wanted to serve in the Navy, but because he noticed that most great college football coaches had served in the military.

• 20:19Speaker 03

  I mean, that's wild.

• 20:21Laci Mosley?

  Wow.

• 20:22Speaker 03

  That is an insane level of dedication to wanting to be a coach, to find out that they mostly all served and then be like, well, I'll just go to Navy and I won't actually... I mean, I'd be nervous that I'd end up like in the Navy.

• 20:39Laci Mosley?

  Right, having to do, like, having to do water war. I don't, I don't want...

• 20:42Speaker 03

  Tough to be a coach if you die in a water war.

• 20:44Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, I don't want to be, I don't want to be doing that. But shout out to the all who served, but I'm, I'm a coward.

• 20:53Speaker 03

  Yes, you exist so that we can live and we appreciate that so much. I just think it's kind of like borderline stolen valor to join the Navy just in service of becoming a football coach. It's like, well, no, you should have to join the Navy.

• 21:06Laci Mosley?

  I mean, he did join, so.

• 21:09Speaker 03

  He does? Yeah, okay.

• 21:10Laci Mosley?

  The intentions, everybody has different intentions, right? When they join, some people wanna get their school paid for. Some people, you know, wanna get out of poverty, you know? Everybody's got a different reason for joining. So, he joined the military, right? He walked into the Navy football coach's office and asked what he could do to help the team as an unpaid volunteer. So Katie, you were right.

• 21:36Speaker 03

  Oh, my god.

• 21:36Laci Mosley?

  Like, he's supposed to be in his whites. He's supposed to be at Fleet Week and he already walking into the coach's office like, "Hey, y'all, I'll be an unpaid intern."

• 21:46Speaker 03

  "Let me do extra credit for the football team for free."

• 21:50Laci Mosley?

  Right. According to Connor, the staff suggested he try deciphering opposing team signals since they didn't have anyone doing that already. Connor said in a nutshell, "Hell, yeah."

• 22:02Speaker 03

  Now, here is the birth of the scam. We're seeing now that we're laying the foundation.

• 22:09Laci Mosley?

  We are.

• 22:10Speaker 03

  Beautifully.

• 22:10Laci Mosley?

  Cause he was supposed to be doing Water War and he, and he didn't somehow figure it out to be an intern in the football.

• 22:16Speaker 03

  They said, "Listen, kid, listen, kid, do this thing that nobody wants to do. You can go do this." And he was like, "I'm gonna do this the best anyone has ever done this before." Uh, and that's gonna explain a lot. Spoiler alert.

• 22:29Laci Mosley?

  Right. So, signs from the sidelines. In college football, coaches decide what the offense is going to do for the next play and have to let players know what they've decided. We have to break down sports, cause, you know.

• 22:43Speaker 03

  No, of course. This is important to anybody.

• 22:45Laci Mosley?

  No.

• 22:46Speaker 03

  Listen, I'm not judging you. This is actually important to know in general.

• 22:51Laci Mosley?

  So, are they gonna run the ball? Are they gonna throw it? And if so, to whom? Things of that nature, right? So, for a long time, they did this by messenger service. Sending substitute players in from the sidelines who would announce the play to the offense huddle on the field. So, that feels like a good scam in itself. Like, I don't have to play in the game, but I, I get paid to just run in and be like... Twenty-two, uh, forty-one X.

• 23:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, we'd be good at that. Put us on, put us in, Coach. Let us run in and go, okay, gals, here's what we're running. Here's the plan.

• 23:26Laci Mosley?

  We're doing X's, we're doing O's.

• 23:29Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 23:29Laci Mosley?

  All right, y'all got it. All right, bye.

• 23:32Speaker 03

  It's like, I'm gonna go get the orange slices when you guys come off the field. Come see me, I have the orange slices.

• 23:36Laci Mosley?

  But around 1990, most teams stopped using a huddle. There's no secret meeting on the field anymore, so coaches have to signal blue forty-two from the sidelines using signals that look like sign language, but are all made up. So everybody's making up their own code on the side and, you know, doing, doing the dance. Like, if I do the Cupid Shuffle, we gonna run it. Okay? If y'all see me doing the ducky, that mean we gonna throw it to Brian.

• 24:07Speaker 03

  They have these, they have these big signs that have like four quarters to them and then they have these big pictures. And it looks ridiculous when you're watching a college football game. You're like, what is that? What is any of, what's that chart trying to show me? But they know what it means. Because in the NFL, when you watch a game, like the, they can talk directly into the

• 24:27Laci Mosley?

  Headset.

• 24:27Speaker 03

  Helmet of the quarterback. Yeah. So through those headsets, they'll be like, they'll do this exact thing, but they don't have that in college. So they have to like, use like cue cards. They have to like draw it out and hold them up.

• 24:38Laci Mosley?

  It's like SNL.

• 24:40Speaker 03

  Yes, exactly. Exactly. And then when all the colleges stopped running, like they started doing no huddle offenses because the game was moving so fast, that it was like almost detrimental to them to even have a huddle because they, it was, teams were using that to their advantage and running no huddle. Then everybody got rid of the huddle, which then made that person who used to run out there useless. And now it's all basically visual on the sideline.

• 25:02Laci Mosley?

  Destroyed his job. I hate that for him. He showed up one day.

• 25:05Speaker 03

  Stealing jobs from people, from hardworking people.

• 25:08Laci Mosley?

  He showed up one day ready to run and they were like, we don't need you anymore, John, I'm sorry.

• 25:12Speaker 03

  Can you imagine the look on his face when his shoulders droop and he's like?

• 25:15Laci Mosley?

  Right.

• 25:16Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 25:16Laci Mosley?

  Cause he could say that he was on the team. Technically, he was on the team.

• 25:20Speaker 03

  Right. If Connor was in the Navy, this kid was on the team.

• 25:24Laci Mosley?

  Exactly. They're one, one in the same. So there could be up to eight people on the sideline sending these signals at the same time. Some of them are doing fake ones. One called the Live Signaller doing the real ones. Here's for- Confused looking guys doing it. We have an example video because I'm. I guess it's like they're holding up the play signs, but then some of them are holding up fake signs. So then people can't catch on to what the play is. Okay, which makes sense if you're running like. But if you're watching other people's footage and then you're like, oh, we're starting to figure out what the play is with the sign. So, okay, so we're going to watch this video because I need help.

• 26:08Speaker 04

  And then they'll have a formation guy, maybe a play guy, maybe one person's doing everything. It all depends on what their synchronicity is and how they're signaling those plays in. Now, these short play calls.

• 26:17Laci Mosley?

  So stupid. So it's like they have one real guy for the game and then they have three other fake guys.

• 26:25Speaker 03

  It's basically like smoke and mirrors to try to get you to think. It's basically a deterrent to reading signs. It's like, look, if you don't, you might do it wrong. You might be actually listening to one of our fake signalers. So I think the entire purpose is to basically be like, look, it could be any one of these guys. Don't even bother. Let's just play football.

• 26:44Laci Mosley?

  Okay, and their signal was like, they were like rubbing their hand across their chest like they were scratching their chest. I'm like, okay, I think doing the Cupid shuffle would be better.

• 26:55Speaker 03

  I agree. I do agree. I think that like if we're going to make them more complicated, we might as well use some, you know, like dance vocabulary we're familiar with.

• 27:03Laci Mosley?

  If I crank that Soulja Boy.

• 27:07Laci Mosley?

  We're going for the field goal.

• 27:08Speaker 03

  I don't know. Look at, look back at that, look back at that video and look at what those guys look like. And do you think any of these Alvin and the Chipmunks are going to crank that Soulja Boy? I don't know. I'm not saying anything. I'm just saying.

• 27:20Laci Mosley?

  Also, I don't understand how this is going to be confusing to people because three people are doing the same sign. And then the one in the blue is doing something different.

• 27:29Speaker 03

  Well, it's possible that the one in the blue is doing something different and it's to distract from the fact that they're all doing that. I don't know. I just feel like the, it's such a silly part of college football. Where it's like, we have to go through to these great lengths to make sure that nobody will know.

• 27:46Laci Mosley?

  The play.

• 27:46Speaker 03

  What we're, I mean, look at these guys. They look like cheerleaders.

• 27:49Laci Mosley?

  They really do look like cheerleaders. They have them in like, they do look like Alvin and the Chipmunks. And they have them in these sweatshirts and matching hats and they're all in different colors. It's very funny.

• 28:01Speaker 03

  Very, very funny.

• 28:02Laci Mosley?

  Very unserious. Love that for them.

• 28:04Speaker 03

  They look like an M and M's commercial.

• 28:05Laci Mosley?

  They really do. They even have the sexy green one.

• 28:12Speaker 03

  The green one whose pants are a little tighter than maybe you want them to be.

• 28:14Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, he giving a little hoochie moment. So, players on the field can look over and see these signs and so can fans, passersby, and the staff of the opposing team if they try to. Deciphering your opponent's signal is called sign stealing.

• 28:32Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 28:33Laci Mosley?

  And it's not illegal to do it with the naked eye. That's what Connor started out doing for the Navy team.

• 28:41Speaker 03

  Right, so he would be on the sidelines, uh, looking at the signs and signals being sent by the other team and in real time trying to decide like, okay, when they hold up a picture of Tweety Bird, that's them saying that they're gonna, it's a designed run for the quarterback or something. They're basically, he's like in real time with no assistance from video, uh, or like old footage. He's just going like, oh, it looks like every time that sign is up, they're running this play. That's, that was his, basically his free job that he did.

• 29:16Laci Mosley?

  And when he started at the Navy and immediately decided not to do the water war, that was his internship, right? He was like deciphering signs because nobody wanted to do that.

• 29:26Speaker 03

  Right, because it's not really necessary. Like, i- i- it's an edge if you can do it right, but like we said, they have all these guys that are basically red herrings giving their signals. And if you do it wrong, and then you're playing based off of, well, you said he was gonna run the ball and they threw it, it could actually really hurt you. So you have to do it perfectly in order to do it well. And so it would make sense to me that they're like, yeah, if we got an extra body, have him try to do it, but if he doesn't do it, we'll just fire him from a non-position we weren't paying him for anyway.

• 29:59Laci Mosley?

  We'll let him go from working for free.

• 30:01Speaker 03

  Go try this, go play with this and see what you figure out.

• 30:04Laci Mosley?

  So as a side note, this only even happened in college football because they're not allowed to use headsets in their helmets, like you mentioned before, like the NFL. And they're not allowed to coach to player audio technology. I don't know what that means.

• 30:21Speaker 03

  I think it just means they're not allowed to have the coach directly communicate to the player via.

• 30:26Laci Mosley?

  Audio technology, okay.

• 30:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, I should probably know why that is, but I don't.

• 30:30Laci Mosley?

  Well, we're gonna know now.

• 30:32Speaker 03

  Let's, oh, good, perfect. Oh, great.

• 30:36Laci Mosley?

  The NCAA, which famously cares deeply about equability and fairness.

• 30:43Speaker 03

  Yes, of course.

• 30:43Laci Mosley?

  As they don't pay their players, wants to protect the college programs that might not be able to afford a fancy Bluetooth headset, so they had outlawed them.

• 30:55Speaker 03

  Sure, which makes sense like 10 years ago, but probably doesn't make sense now, when it's very, very easy technology to procure.

• 31:03Laci Mosley?

  And it's also, most schools are raking it in from their athletic programs.

• 31:09Speaker 03

  Right, and like, oh, would it kill you, NCAA, to provide for the schools, the few schools that can't?

• 31:15Laci Mosley?

  No, we gotta keep all the money. They're the Mr. Burns of college football. They not giving you nothing. So traveling to games other than your own games in order to steal an opponent's signs is also illegal, according to the NCSS. Again, protecting those little football programs that wouldn't be able to afford sign-stealing scouts traveling all over the conference. So you couldn't pull up to another game that you're not involved in, and they just watch the signs.

• 31:46Speaker 03

  Yes, yeah, so you can't like do homework and go watch the team you're gonna play next week and go, well, if I can't record them, maybe I can do it live with my eyes a week early against somebody else. And of course, you're running the risk that they might change their signs between then and, but these are college kids who have a lot of stuff to do, so I bet they're not changing them that much. So they basically made it so that you can't forward scout. You can't like go look at your opponent before your opponent comes to play you and steal their signs that way, which must have been devastating for a college.

• 32:18Laci Mosley?

  Right, cuz he was like, that's what I do. I'm a spy for the Navy.

• 32:22Speaker 03

  Let me go look.

• 32:24Laci Mosley?

  Come on.

• 32:25Speaker 03

  In the, in the least cool, least, uh, like relevant to actual Navy affairs way possible. He's like a, a govern- he's like a, a military spy that's not at all involved in the military.

• 32:37Laci Mosley?

  And doesn't get paid.

• 32:38Speaker 03

  He's just doing it for their football team. Exactly.

• 32:40Laci Mosley?

  I love, and I, I, I hope there was a moment where they were like, hey Connor, we, we got a battleship. And, and we gotta, we gotta sink the battleship. And he was like, I can't go. I gotta scout for these games. This is what I'm doing for my country.

• 32:53Speaker 03

  Yes, but the picture of Sylvester the cat, I cannot crack what that means. And I've really got to get to the bottom of that. So I can't come on this excursion to take out pirates in the ocean or whatever, you know, whatever the Navy does.

• 33:06Laci Mosley?

  So it's also illegal in college football to use electronic equipment to record opposing teams' signs at your own game. Like you said, you gotta do it with the eyeball. The NCAA hates electronic equipment almost as much as it hates paying college athletes for the work they do on the field.

• 33:24Speaker 03

  Burn. Absolutely burned. Roasted.

• 33:28Speaker 05

  Robbery.

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• 34:34Laci Mosley?

  The Volunteer. In 2018, Connor was serving in the Marines stationed in California.

• 34:40Speaker 03

  Oh, okay.

• 34:40Laci Mosley?

  Okay. But, but his Michigan football obsession was as strong as ever. He volunteered to sign steel for Michigan football using his Navy discipline and experience. So he flew from California to Detroit on the weekends on his own dime.

• 34:58Speaker 03

  Oh, my God.

• 35:00Laci Mosley?

  He was like a weirdly obsessed volunteer, but I mean, he's been loving this since he was seven. And he would go to games and watch opposing team signs, putting his house on the Airbnb. Like, so maybe that's how he could afford it. Because he was like, oh, Airbnb my house, and then I'll go to Detroit. So around the same time, Michigan football was on the rocks. Their beloved coach, Jim Harbaugh, couldn't figure out how to beat their nemesis, Ohio State. They kept losing, losing, and losing that most important game every year. So in 2021, Connor transitioned out of the Marines and was promoted from intern to permanent staffer with an actual salary.

• 35:43Laci Mosley?

  Just, it was a low salary, but they, they started paying him because he was good. He was getting paid now to be a signal decipher for Michigan football. His dream was starting to come true. Not that you wanted to be a coach, but I guess sign, like, signal stealing is, is that the pathway?

• 36:01Speaker 03

  Like, coach, I guess you could, you know, in, in, like, pro football, a lot of times you'll see a kid who was a ball boy when he was younger with a team because he, like, only got that through a connection, then when he gets older, becomes a coach. So there are like, um, like, non-traditional pathways to get, like, once you're in the door, it's kind of like, you know, you, you can make it happen if you move the right way and align with the right people. I guess you could see a world where you go from being the signal stealing guy to being the head coach or a coordinator, which is basically a coach. So like, I, I, I guess.

• 36:41Speaker 03

  Could be a pathway. I don't, um, off the top of my head, know if anyone's ever taken that specific pathway. But I feel like when you're obsessed with a football team, the way that Connor is, and you have no interest in actually playing it, um, you're basically just like, well, then let me get in the door and then prove myself to be so useful that they just can't be without me. And so far, in this journey that you're telling us about, it sounds like he's gone from being like a guy who did it for free for the Navy, to a guy who did it for free for his favorite team, and then to the point where they were like, okay, we'll pay you. It's not gonna be a lot, but he's already moving up. So he's like, this is my key, this is my ticket in, this is my meal ticket. I'll just get, I'll be the best guy at stealing signs that there ever was.

• 37:29Laci Mosley?

  I'll be in the Hall of Fame for stealing signs.

• 37:33Speaker 03

  That separate Hall of Fame for not the athletes, not the coaches, but the guys under the coaches who helped them do the thing they need to do.

• 37:40Laci Mosley?

  Who did stuff well.

• 37:42Speaker 03

  Right.

• 37:43Laci Mosley?

  So he created a database of more than 2,000 possible sideline signals in what he called the game day sheet.

• 37:50Speaker 03

  Okay, could have had a better name for that, I feel like.

• 37:53Laci Mosley?

  Yeah.

• 37:53Speaker 03

  It's like your big, it's like a bible, and you're just gonna name it the game day sheet?

• 37:58Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, the signal bible. But you know, he was just like the game day sheet, like.

• 38:03Speaker 03

  He's like, look, it's paper and it's got words on it for game day.

• 38:06Laci Mosley?

  That same season, Michigan started playing well suddenly. In 2021, they beat Ohio State, and in 2022, they won the Big Ten Conference and beat Ohio State again. Connor got the game ball for their victory against Iowa that season. So.

• 38:24Speaker 03

  Look at that. What an honor.

• 38:26Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, and it's got his name on it and everything.

• 38:29Speaker 03

  I mean, listen, picture Connor the way that you've been picturing him.

• 38:34Laci Mosley?

  Right.

• 38:35Speaker 03

  Imagine getting from the team, the game ball. An indication that you were the guy who like. Did this for us. You're the reason we won 27 to 14 against Iowa. You deserve this one ball that we have to give to anybody. We're giving it to you. This kid must be

• 38:56Laci Mosley?

  Over the moon.

• 38:56Speaker 03

  I don't know what I can say on this podcast, but he is going in his pants.

• 38:59Laci Mosley?

  That's what I thought. I was like, he probably just immediately.

• 39:02Speaker 03

  Absolutely went home and took care of some tensions.

• 39:05Laci Mosley?

  I think it happened when they handed it to him. He was like, oh.

• 39:09Speaker 03

  Yes. He's like, oh my God, it's everything I've ever wanted.

• 39:13Laci Mosley?

  Like, also, the NCAA being cheap again. This man helped y'all get the teams back together, make all this money, and then y'all were like, okay, we gotta do something for him. Y'all called a, um, monogram people and had him put his name on a ball. That's all we're gonna do. Not a raise.

• 39:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, no, no, no, no, no. Not pay. No. Just something that he'll like and will mean a lot to him and will cost us nothing.

• 39:41Laci Mosley?

  Yes. So in 2023, this is a new season. It looked like Michigan could go all the way to win the national championship for the first time in more than 20 years. In mid-October, they were rocking an undefeated season when suddenly the NCAA raided Connor's office and seized his work computer, triggering a scandal that would taint Michigan's legacy for the foreseeable future. So the NCAA was like, hmm, y'all win it too much and y'all gave this random man the game ball. What's going on?

• 40:15Speaker 03

  It is funny, though, when you hear of like, his office got raided and they took his hard drive. You're like, hmm.

• 40:21Laci Mosley?

  And why is the NCAA trying to act like the F to be in the eye? Like?

• 40:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't know. I do not know.

• 40:26Laci Mosley?

  A raid?

• 40:27Speaker 03

  I do not know. Pretty crazy.

• 40:29Laci Mosley?

  Like they kicked down his door?

• 40:31Speaker 03

  And my first thought when I heard that report in 2023 was not like, oh, I bet he's on a part of a sign stealing scandal. I was like, oh, what does that man have on that man's hard drive?

• 40:42Laci Mosley?

  Right.

• 40:42Speaker 03

  What are we about to? And it wasn't the bad, the really bad thing that I thought it was. It was this funnier bad thing.

• 40:48Laci Mosley?

  What was the really bad thing you thought it was?

• 40:50Speaker 03

  Uh, child porn. Whenever I hear that somebody take it and raids somebody's house and takes their hard drive, I'm like, oh geez Louise.

• 40:57Laci Mosley?

  That's typically what it is.

• 40:58Speaker 03

  Right, cuz you're like Jared from Subway? What do you mean they took his hard drive? And then you find out that, you know.

• 41:03Laci Mosley?

  It's something else.

• 41:04Speaker 03

  It was creepy, really bad, really bad guy.

• 41:06Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, usually, usually. So, according to the NCAA, Connor had purchased tickets in his own name for more than thirty games over three years at eleven different Big Ten schools. He sent operatives to the games to record the sideline signalers to send him footage, at which he would like decode it, right? So, some of the operatives were friends or associates and some were other military veterans. It was an organized espionage operation. Now, this sounds like somebody snitched.

• 41:39Speaker 03

  It had to be, right? Because where would they have even gotten the idea that that was what was happening? I mean, honestly, I don't mean to keep harping on how, um, like, almost, I don't wanna say pathetic, cuz that feels really mean, but like, this guy bought his own tickets. Like, he knew they weren't, they couldn't send him to these games because it wasn't allowed, so out of his own pocket, in a job that's already not really paying him that much, he's, he went and did it on his own.

• 42:08Laci Mosley?

  He couldn't use a pseudonym, like, for the names? Like, you buy too many tickets for all the Big Ten games.

• 42:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:16Laci Mosley?

  Somebody snitched, though. I just feel like somebody had to.

• 42:19Speaker 03

  They had to, they had to.

• 42:20Laci Mosley?

  So, Connor says this wasn't illegal because he wasn't going himself in person to scout the games, and he claims he bought the tickets for friends out of friendliness. And, they sent him the sideline footage out of friendliness, as friends do.

• 42:38Speaker 03

  Oh, oh, of co, oh, oh, my bad. I, I forgot that you were gonna invoke your, the friend defense. What, what is that? Oh, we went cuz I bought, I mean, I bought them tickets.

• 42:52Speaker 03

  If it's like, I bought the tickets because they're my friends. Okay, I could see that being like, no, I just wanted to send conveniently one friend to every single game. Uh, it just, I just happened to work out that way. Fine, but if you're gonna say that they sent it to you out of friendliness, that's, um...

• 43:11Laci Mosley?

  They just happened to send me stuff that was illegal out of friendliness.

• 43:17Speaker 03

  I mean, at least, at least tell these friends of yours to make it look like they're filming something else. Like, make it look like your creepy friends were filming, like, the cheerleading team. And in the background, they just happened to capture...

• 43:30Laci Mosley?

  The sidelines.

• 43:31Speaker 03

  But don't be like, they sent you straight up videos of the sideline and then you're like, well, they're my friends. What the hell is that?

• 43:38Laci Mosley?

  And then like zoomed in on the signals. Like, bro.

• 43:42Speaker 03

  There's like arrows. They're like, Connor, look right here. Right here is what you asked me to get footage of as a friend.

• 43:48Laci Mosley?

  As a friend.

• 43:49Speaker 03

  As a friend, though, just as a friend.

• 43:51Laci Mosley?

  So Connor was first suspended with pay, then resigned from his job at Michigan with three games left in the season. He was trying to throw himself on a sword and save Coach Jim Harbaugh from blame, preserving Michigan's untainted season. So he was like, I love Michigan so much that I'm not even gonna stay on my paid leave. I'm just gonna be like, it was me, it was all me.

• 44:15Speaker 03

  I mean, this kid is built to sacrifice himself for what he perceives to be the greater good. I mean, I can't picture a more loyal soldier.

• 44:22Laci Mosley?

  It's very Christ-like for Michigan State. You know, that's his religion. He was like, I'll get on the cross for Michigan State.

• 44:29Speaker 03

  By the way, Lacey, I don't think you were looking at the screen when your producer showed us Jim Harbaugh, so I just do think...

• 44:34Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, can we bring him back up?

• 44:36Speaker 03

  There you go.

• 44:37Laci Mosley?

  Oh.

• 44:37Speaker 03

  That's the coach he fell on his sword for.

• 44:39Laci Mosley?

  And look at him, okay, look, this, this sweater is fire. I would wear that. And he's got the...

• 44:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, that is nice.

• 44:45Laci Mosley?

  He's got the whistle in his mouth all like aggressive, like, I don't know, it's, it's giving like, this is very important and I, I don't think sports are that important, but... A lot of people do.

• 44:58Speaker 03

  Shirt tucked into his khakis, too. He's a, he's quite a character.

• 45:03Laci Mosley?

  That's wild.

• 45:04Speaker 03

  I think his brother, his brother John's also a coach, uh, the Ravens. He coaches the Ravens in the NFL. But they, I think it was Jim who once said he doesn't eat chicken because it's a nervous bird.

• 45:16Laci Mosley?

  Hmm, and he, and he's not nervous. Look at him.

• 45:19Speaker 03

  I mean, what a weird, what a weird guy, just in general. Felt important to note for your listeners who might not know.

• 45:25Laci Mosley?

  Tucking a sweatshirt into your khakis is wild, though.

• 45:29Speaker 03

  It's something else. It's certainly a statement. What it says, I'll leave that up to a listener, but it says something.

• 45:37Laci Mosley?

  But even though Connor threw himself on the sword, on the cross, it was too late. It was tainted. At their next game, the opponents were so scared of the scandalous sign stealing school, they didn't use signals at all. They used old timey messenger services, running plays out to the field. So there was no way the signs could be stolen. They lost forty-nine to zero anyway.

• 46:04Speaker 03

  Dang.

• 46:04Laci Mosley?

  So Michigan was still whooping ass.

• 46:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:06Laci Mosley?

  But everybody's scared now. They're like, we can't use signs.

• 46:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, you could say that's proof that they didn't need the sign stealing, which people did say. Um, I just like the job creation, bringing that job back, getting those messengers back out there, sending the messages to your huddle. I love that. We missed those guys, they lost their job, and now they're back.

• 46:23Laci Mosley?

  I love, like, a messenger getting a call that was, like, laid off and they're like, hey, hey, Tom, actually, we need you back. And Tom's like, I'll be there. Oh, my God, I'm back, baby, I'm back.

• 46:39Laci Mosley?

  Like, your industry completely went out of business and they were like, actually, we're back. I love that. So evidence emerged that Connor may have gone in disguise to a Central Michigan game months earlier, pretending to be a coach on another team, which would definitely be illegal and also comically overboard. His genius disguise of wearing sunglasses at night didn't exactly work.

• 47:05Speaker 03

  Oh, my God.

• 47:05Laci Mosley?

  Yeah.

• 47:06Speaker 03

  There's your picture. There's a photo for you.

• 47:08Laci Mosley?

  Okay, first of all, how did he get on the sidelines?

• 47:12Speaker 03

  I think he had a friend, again, I don't know, a lot of friends for this guy. But I think he had a friend, maybe, at that school that he called in a favor with. I don't know.

• 47:22Laci Mosley?

  Connor, I feel like you should have added, like, a fake beard or, like... Some type of prosthetic.

• 47:28Speaker 03

  Just draw on the rest of your beard and make it that way we'll know it's not you because that person can fully grow facial hair.

• 47:35Laci Mosley?

  Go as Mrs. Doubtfire for the NCAA, you know? Like, really commit.

• 47:41Speaker 03

  The sunglasses are giant. Like, they are not really incognito sunglasses. Those things are huge.

• 47:49Laci Mosley?

  He was like, I gotta have sunglasses that cover my whole face.

• 47:52Speaker 03

  Whole face.

• 47:54Laci Mosley?

  He really thought he was low-key and he's kinda keeping his head tucked down. Yeah, that's wild.

• 47:59Speaker 03

  Almost a bad look for our military, that a man trained to be in our military thought this was sufficient undercover to protect him.

• 48:08Laci Mosley?

  Well, you know, he wasn't ever really doing military stuff. He was just doing football stuff for the military.

• 48:13Speaker 03

  Did he graduate? Did he go to Navy and graduate? I feel like, don't you have to do militaries? I don't know. I'm introducing more difficulty to the story. I just feel like technically, he did it, right? In service of football for the wrong reasons, as you'd say on a reality show, but he still did it.

• 48:27Laci Mosley?

  And look, his beard kinda came in a little bit.

• 48:28Speaker 03

  Mmm. It looks like he dipped his chin in it.

• 48:31Laci Mosley?

  It looks like Beijing or something like he put.

• 48:34Speaker 03

  He's got like a chin strap.

• 48:37Laci Mosley?

  He was like, I have a weak-ass beard, so if I do like a better beard and sunglasses that cover my whole face and a hat, nobody will know.

• 48:44Speaker 03

  They'll never know it's me.

• 48:46Laci Mosley?

  So then the NCAA ups the ante, suspending Coach Jim Harbaugh himself for the last two games of the season, even though Harbaugh maintained he didn't know about Connor's crazy schemes. Everybody in college football was consumed with this story. Now, Jim, I don't see a way you didn't know about the game sheet, cuz who's calling the plays?

• 49:10Speaker 03

  Right. It's like you're either saying that you don't call the plays and therefore you don't, what are you doing? What are you making all of this money to do? Or you're, I mean, I guess, I think what he's saying is that there's enough

• 49:26Laci Mosley?

  Separation.

• 49:27Speaker 03

  Stops in between that information getting to the people who it informs, who then inform Harbaugh of what he provided them, but without, I don't know, they would have to be like masking the information to give to the coach, which I guess, you could argue, could happen. It's, I guess, possible, but it just felt like, this happens a lot in college football. Well, something will happen.

• 49:51Laci Mosley?

  Harbaugh was like, I keep my hands clean. I never touch dope. Like, I was not.

• 49:55Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 49:56Laci Mosley?

  He was like, if this is a Rico, like.

• 49:58Speaker 03

  I, I didn't touch it. You can check under my fingernails. No dirt.

• 50:02Laci Mosley?

  Let me go.

• 50:04Speaker 03

  Yeah. But it is like, it's your job to be in charge of the whole program. So if it was happening under your watch, you have to say that it was you. You have to fall on that. You have to take that.

• 50:13Laci Mosley?

  Michigan won their games without their head coach, too. They beat Ohio State, got to the playoffs and won the national championship. They were unstoppable. But the championship will always have an asterisk in the shape of Connor Stions in the unofficial record. So, mm, I.

• 50:31Speaker 03

  Like, they won, but they, they're like, uh, everybody kind of, especially people who hate Michigan, are like, yeah, they won, but it was the year they cheated. And now if you're a Michigan fan, you're like, yeah, but they, when they didn't have their coach and when the other team didn't use their signs, we still won. Like, we were a good team that this happened to be happening at the same time as. And so, you know, it's, people are still, that's why they say the unofficial record has an asterisk, because it's like, a lot of people are still like, I don't count that, because they were clearly cheating.

• 51:02Laci Mosley?

  And I feel bad for the players because they won, but everyone is gonna be like, yeah, you won, but y'all were cheating, like.

• 51:10Speaker 03

  Right.

• 51:10Laci Mosley?

  And they weren't, they didn't know.

• 51:13Speaker 03

  They didn't know. I mean, maybe they could have, but the, it's a, it's a much easier thing for me to believe that they didn't know than it is that Harbaugh didn't know. Like, it's, I, I, the players were just doing what they were told and they did do it and they executed the plays. So it's like, uh, yeah, I agree with you. I feel bad for the players, but not so much for the coaching staff.

• 51:32Laci Mosley?

  But also, I kind of wonder, I can't, I can't help but wonder. You know, Connor was smart. They seized his computer, but did he have game sheets? What if there was like physical printed bibles that the NCAA didn't find?

• 51:49Laci Mosley?

  Because they only raided Connor, right?

• 51:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, I guess so.

• 51:52Laci Mosley?

  So the coordinators could have still had them sheets or anybody.

• 51:56Speaker 03

  See, now that's a woman familiar with scams and scandals that you're immediately like, well, now, hold on. I see the loophole. They could still be winning off of the cheating. Uh, yeah, I, I don't know.

• 52:07Laci Mosley?

  So let's, like you were saying, they won against all odds, didn't have their head coach, you know, didn't have Connor allegedly. So like, did it even matter? Some big questions remain unanswered, like who was paying for all these college football tickets for Connor's operatives? Was he paying out of his own small pocket or was the school paying? Football fans on message boards have suggested a bankroller named Uncle T. Partially funded the scheme. They fingered Tim Smith and he was Uncle T. Like they were saying he was the person who did it. And Uncle T was like, no, it wasn't me. Tim Smith was like, I had nothing to do with it.

• 52:49Laci Mosley?

  But in college football, people do bankroll stuff, like the people who are obsessed, like.

• 52:55Speaker 03

  Yes, the boosters. Like specifically, it's rich people who love a school.

• 52:59Laci Mosley?

  We saw The Blind Side.

• 53:01Speaker 03

  God, that turned out to be a whole thing.

• 53:02Laci Mosley?

  Right. They, they literally stole that child.

• 53:06Speaker 03

  I know.

• 53:07Laci Mosley?

  So that he will play for their school and then wrote a book and took all the money and.

• 53:13Speaker 03

  As the hero, they wrote themselves as the heroes. They were like, oh, didn't we save this young boy? And he was like, well, now wait one second.

• 53:19Laci Mosley?

  No, listen here. Sandra Bullock said,

• 53:25Laci Mosley?

  we saved you and you couldn't read good. You needed us. So did Coach Jim Harbaugh know? He left Michigan to coach the Los Angeles Chargers after the championship, taking most of his coaching staff with him. So.

• 53:43Speaker 03

  Isn't that interesting?

• 53:43Laci Mosley?

  He failed up.

• 53:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, they, they, they often do. Uh, but yeah, he was like, no, we didn't do this and I didn't know anything about it. And we just won the championship, but I'm gonna, I'm, I'm gonna go. I'm gonna head out.

• 53:56Laci Mosley?

  I mean, he was coaching real well at Michigan. He turned that shit around, so it's like,

• 53:59Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 54:00Laci Mosley?

  If you're that good, I like that they were like, if you, okay, you scammed a little bit, but you are really good at your job. So like, come on over here.

• 54:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 54:08Laci Mosley?

  So who is the anonymous source that tipped off the NCAA to Connor's sign stealing operation? See, I said earlier, there had to be a snitch. Because how would the NCAA know? So hmm. Was it a shadowy Ohio State operative like head coach Ryan Day's brother? Who happens to be a private investigator?

• 54:34Speaker 03

  No way. That makes so much sense. Ryan Day is so funny. He looks like he, his beard is painted on. He looks like he's undercover.

• 54:41Laci Mosley?

  He does.

• 54:42Speaker 03

  Pretending to be somebody else.

• 54:43Laci Mosley?

  Like he's pretending to be a coach.

• 54:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly. That looks like Connor Stallions undercover to me. Connor the Stallion.

• 54:50Laci Mosley?

  And it looks like he painted that on with a brush, like,

• 54:53Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 54:53Laci Mosley?

  Or like he used a lot of mascara in it every day. I don't know. And then he, does he have on blush?

• 54:59Speaker 03

  Um, he could, he, he often does look like he's got some sort of contouring on the cheeks.

• 55:04Laci Mosley?

  He was like, I'm a baddie. I'm, I'm a Coach Tanner baddie. Now, the way that they were whooping Ohio State's ass over and over and over again, when Ohio State had the upper hand before,

• 55:14Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 55:15Laci Mosley?

  I wouldn't be shocked if he was like, something is afoot.

• 55:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's one of the biggest rivalries in college football too. So they are, they do not like each other at all. So I could absolutely see a fan somehow digging this out. I could, I did not know he had a private investigator brother, but that sounds interesting.

• 55:34Laci Mosley?

  Or did they illegally hack Connor's computer to gain access to his master's spreadsheet? Does any of this even matter? Did Connor's sign stealing enterprise like have any effect on the outcomes of the game whatsoever? Many sports analysts think not. Connor still denies all wrongdoing. He got a defensive coordinator job at Mumford High School in Detroit, a mere 40 minute drive away from the University of Michigan. So he's still gotta be close to his school.

• 56:04Speaker 03

  I know, and I'm sure he totally just stopped being obsessed with everything Michigan. I'm sure he went back to just being a normal guy about it.

• 56:11Laci Mosley?

  I doubt that. We're that obsessed. I doubt that.

• 56:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's in his heart. It's in his blood.

• 56:17Laci Mosley?

  The private investigator brother at Ohio State is tingling for me. I'm like.

• 56:22Speaker 03

  It's interesting. It's an interesting angle. And you knew, you sniffed out the snitch. You were like, somebody said something.

• 56:28Laci Mosley?

  Right. And these people seem to love to do espionage, like for football.

• 56:33Speaker 03

  Yes. But also, if you like, if you're gonna send a spy to see the signs, why would you say you wouldn't send a spy to see if anybody's sending a spy to see the signs? So you send your personal investigator just to see if anybody's around and then you.

• 56:48Laci Mosley?

  Spy versus spy.

• 56:50Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 56:51Laci Mosley?

  And somebody is probably like, why does that man have binoculars at this football game?

• 56:58Laci Mosley?

  Why is he in all black and he has binoculars? And he's like, like on the field. That don't make no sense. Oh, so, starting in 2024, the NCAA began allowing helmet headsets for play calling, effectively eliminating sign stealing. It was known by many as the Stallion's Rule. So now he's got a whole law name after him.

• 57:20Speaker 03

  I mean, he probably loves that. I do love that the NCAA was finally, in 2024, like, okay, we'll adopt the widely used technology that's been used for years in this sport at different levels. We'll finally, I guess this will be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

• 57:38Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, we'll pay for y'all's headsets. God damn.

• 57:42Speaker 03

  Fine. Fine. The funniest thing about this scandal to me is that ultimately, like depending on what light you look at it in, it's either like absolutely nothing and, and they got caught for doing it. Sure, they did it, but it didn't actually help their operation. Or it was like a big deal and it helped them and they won their, like it was either a crazy coincidence that they had such a great season, because they were building up any, like it's, it's either a coincidence or it's like it completely invalidates everything that they did that was successful. So it's like a, we don't.

• 58:17Laci Mosley?

  We don't know.

• 58:17Speaker 03

  Really know, even though we know the details, we still don't really know.

• 58:22Laci Mosley?

  I mean, there is a coincidence that Connor, you know, started working at the time that they started winning.

• 58:30Speaker 03

  Right, but it could be a coincidence.

• 58:34Laci Mosley?

  Like, we're taking out completely the talent of the football players.

• 58:38Speaker 03

  Right. Like, they do still have to, this was what the Astros said back when they got caught in baseball stealing signs. Is that they were like, well, you do still have to execute the thing based off of, you have a little more information. Like, the Astros knew what pitch was gonna be thrown, but you still do have to hit the pitch. So I think in football, it would be like, you do still have to, like, tackle the guy.

• 58:58Laci Mosley?

  Right.

• 58:58Speaker 03

  You do still have to catch the pass. Like, the football still has to be played. But you do have, uh, an advantage that your opponent does not have, nor do they know that you have. So, again, it could be absolutely nothing, um, or it could be a huge deal. But at least we got to find out who Connor Stallions is.

• 59:17Laci Mosley?

  Right. You know, I'm kind of of the mind of let people cheat. Let everybody cheat unless, unless he wins.

• 59:27Speaker 03

  Who cheats best?

• 59:28Laci Mosley?

  Right. Deflategate, that didn't work very well. They got caught.

• 59:32Speaker 03

  Right.

• 59:32Laci Mosley?

  But.

• 59:33Speaker 03

  Sure did.

• 59:33Laci Mosley?

  But like, yeah, who?

• 59:34Speaker 03

  Though you could argue that there was no reason for that to be a scandal at all. I'm a Patriots fan, so I have to stand up for it. It's just, I'm, I'm required by law to say that everybody used to inflate and deflate the balls, and this just happened to be a... But I'll drop it, you know?

• 59:49Laci Mosley?

  No, but see, that's what I'm talking about. Everybody should be inflating and deflating. Everybody should be having espionage and spies at other people's games.

• 59:58Speaker 03

  Another thing the Patriots did, uh, you could argue that, like, it's sports, so like, of all the places, who cares? Like, it doesn't really ma- it's just a, it's ultimately just a game. I know it's like a huge business with a lot of money, moving around, but it's like, it's just a game. So, go ahead. Who wants it more? Who wants to fly their guy out to 30 games? Who wants to bankroll that? If you want it, go get it.

• 1:00:22Laci Mosley?

  The cheating makes it more exciting.

• 1:00:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, I could see that.

• 1:00:27Laci Mosley?

  Oh, man, well, that brings us to the end of a very fun episode. Katie, I'm so glad you were here to share your expertise, because I don't know if I would have been able to get through this episode without you. I was like, very confu- I was confusion so many times.

• 1:00:42Speaker 03

  No, you did, Lacey, this was so, I, I didn't dive into this scandal when it happened, so I was happy to hear about it from you, and I learned things. So don't count yourself out. You did that.

• 1:00:52Laci Mosley?

  Okay, I won't count myself out. Just like you're an expert, I'm not gonna count myself out of

• 1:00:56Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:00:57Laci Mosley?

  Deciphering this scam. But Connor, I'm glad that you're working and employed and you're so close to the school that you love. I'm sure you're at all the games, all the time.

• 1:01:07Speaker 03

  Probably like a folk hero. They probably come up to him and they're like, "Oh, my God, are you the Connor the Stallion?"

• 1:01:13Laci Mosley?

  Right.

• 1:01:13Speaker 03

  "I'm so excited to meet you."

• 1:01:14Laci Mosley?

  Your Stallion Law? Like, you created Stallion's Law? Wow. Iconic.

• 1:01:21Speaker 03

  Iconic.

• 1:01:22Laci Mosley?

  Look, he left an impact on the whole NCAA.

• 1:01:24Speaker 03

  They won't be the same without him.

• 1:01:25Laci Mosley?

  And when he was seven and he was dressed up as Michigan State, like, he really did that.

• 1:01:30Speaker 03

  Ironically, with a headset on.

• 1:01:31Laci Mosley?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:01:32Speaker 03

  Which now ended up being his legacy.

• 1:01:34Laci Mosley?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:35Speaker 03

  He let them use the headset.

• 1:01:37Laci Mosley?

  A hero?

• 1:01:38Speaker 03

  Kind of. You could say. In certain, you could.

• 1:01:40Laci Mosley?

  We always ask at the end of this podcast, "Where would you like to be found? Anything you want to plug? Share?"

• 1:01:47Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. So I have a new podcast. It's called Casuals. It's, um, you can get it anywhere you get your podcasts. Audio only right now. We'll get video eventually, but uh, audio only right now. And basically, it's like, um, for people who want to know what's going on in sports, but don't feel like entertained by other sports media, because it tends to kind of like, they talk like they're talking to people who already know.

• 1:02:07Laci Mosley?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:02:08Speaker 03

  Um, on Casuals, we're more like, it's, we're here because it's fun, or funny, or entertaining. You don't have to know anything. You're not going to get judged. So if you want to like, keep up a little bit in an entertaining way with sports, uh, it's Casuals. Comes out Tuesdays and Thursdays, um, anywhere you get your podcasts.

• 1:02:23Laci Mosley?

  Yes. And I kind of feel like this episode is like you doing Casuals to me, because I didn't know any of this before. And so I got to learn a lot of things and not feel like someone was talking to me like, "Yeah, but when you run into the 50 and this and I'm like, I don't, y'all yelling at me."

• 1:02:43Speaker 03

  You're losing me. None of this is interesting and you're screaming and I don't, uh, care. So, yeah, no, we're-

• 1:02:48Laci Mosley?

  Stephen A. Smith is yelling at me. I don't know what he's talking about.

• 1:02:53Speaker 03

  Yes. I mean, it's not really ever anything important. So you don't have to worry about it.

• 1:02:58Laci Mosley?

  Oh, well, y'all, my book is still out, Scam Goddess. I mean, it'll be out forever, but you can get that wherever retailers are. Obviously, Scam Goddess, the television show, is dropping on Wednesdays at Free Forum and next day on Hulu, so get into that. The next two episodes are gonna be very wild, so get into it. But thank you so much for being here, Katie. This was such a good time and, you know, congregation, y'all get out there, it's the stallions.

• 1:03:33Laci Mosley?

  This has been an Earwolf production in association with Team Coco. Scam Goddess stars and is hosted by me, Lacey Mosley, AKA Scam Goddess. Our producer is Jessica Cisneros and our audio engineer is Rich Garcia. Research for the show is conducted by Kate Doyle. Stay scheming.

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