#2337 - Oliver Anthony

Oliver Anthony is a singer-songwriter of country and folk music. His debut album, “Hymnal of a Troubled Man’s Mind,” is available everywhere music is sold.https://www.oliveranthonymusic.com Go to https://ExpressVPN.com/ROGAN to get 4 months free! Get 25% off your first order at https://MASAChips.com/JRE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:13Joe Rogan?

  And we're up, my friend. How are you? Good to see you.

• 0:15Speaker 01

  Long time no talk.

• 0:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, brother. Yeah. How you doing? You good?

• 0:19Speaker 01

  Good. I, um, man, I remember like towards the last, the end of the last time I was here, you said, "Oh, yeah, we'll probably see you again in a couple of years." And I was just looking around like, "Yeah, I'll never see any of this again."

• 0:31Joe Rogan?

  You're back quicker than you thought.

• 0:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:33Joe Rogan?

  Bro, that new song is fire.

• 0:36Speaker 01

  Thanks.

• 0:37Joe Rogan?

  Woo! I played that song about 20 times in the green room. And the first time I played it, everybody just sat around and went, "Oh, shit."

• 0:46Speaker 01

  It was so funny that, um, yeah, I didn't expect the song, well, you know, I didn't, I wasn't the one, I guess it was Adam that sent it. I don't even know how you got ahold of the song originally.

• 0:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, Adam sent it to me originally.

• 0:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, I sent it, I'd sent it to him like, um, yeah, just kind of, just to get his opinion of it or whatever. And he's like, "I got it." He's like, "Do you mind if I share this around?" And I was like, "Yeah, go ahead."

• 1:08Joe Rogan?

  Brother, first time I heard it was in the green room. And the green room has a killer sound system, so we put it on the Bluetooth and cranked it and all of us, there was like 10 dudes in that room going, "Oh, shit." "Oh, shit." Some of those lines like, "Oh, shit."

• 1:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25Joe Rogan?

  Woo!

• 1:26Speaker 01

  What, what makes that song different, I guess, than anything I've done or than a lot of music now is that we're, um, we tried to like, do it the way Lynyrd Skynyrd or somebody would back in this, where we're all just in the house and there's no like, man, there's so much editing that goes into music now on the backend and stuff. And with this, we're just like in there doing it and, you know, try to keep it as real as, as possible. Like, um, you know, there's no, there's no click tracks, there's no real editing. It's just kind of like, we're all just in this house. I mean, it's, it was, is the worst timing to record, but, um, that was, that January 5th, 6th, 7th window was the only time that everybody could meet up, you know, Billy Contreras on the fiddle and everybody. And, because he, he tours with Ricky Skaggs and he's kind of

• 2:09Speaker 01

  all over the place. So that was like our time to meet. So, a couple of days before we all went to West Virginia to record in my house up there, the, um, this like terrible storm they were calling for, it's like the worst one since the 90s supposedly, or that's what Draven says. But, so we got all this snow, all this ice. So, um, So yeah, we used a side by side in a Jeep to haul everything up and down. It was like just all we could do to get up and down to the house. And then it's right as soon as we get everything plugged in, ready to go, the power knocks out.

• 2:41Speaker 01

  I was like, we were all just so discouraged and luckily there, you know, there's a Lowe's not terribly far away and they had one, they had like a Honda inverter generator that was like safe to plug everything into, you know, like a, where the waves aren't gonna mess everything up. And so yeah, we, you know, we recorded the song while on a generator.

• 2:59Joe Rogan?

  So you have to worry about the waves of the generator, like the sound of the generator? Is that what it is?

• 3:03Speaker 01

  No, like the

• 3:05Joe Rogan?

  Electrical pulses?

• 3:06Speaker 01

  Like plugging all of that expensive equipment into just like a, yeah, a generator that's on an inverter. Like the voltage like goes up and down, I guess, or I don't know. That's all above my pay grade, but we had to find one that was like safe to plug all that equipment into, you know?

• 3:21Joe Rogan?

  Maybe that's something in the song too, you know, like maybe that you're trapped in a storm. But that's a scary ass song, dude. It's a scary.

• 3:32Speaker 01

  I can't wait for the, yeah. See, I hadn't put a lot of new music out because, well, I think back to even when I was here last time and before we did the episode and all, walking around on the sidewalk out in front of the hotel with Draven and a couple of other people arguing that I needed to just cash out from Richmond and roll and not make this into a long-term thing. Cause I just, well dude, I just don't, some people thrive in this environment, like everybody looking at them, but I, to me, it's just like, so it just, it kinda takes, it kinda takes a little bit out of me putting new music out. And so, you know, after Richmond, I only had those two new songs. I really just wanted to let everything kinda slow down and I could still maybe do five or 10 shows a year and make a little bit, but I wasn't trying to be like a superstar.

• 4:17Speaker 01

  I didn't want everybody just to be, I didn't want to be stuck in that spot I was when I was at Richmond where everybody's just like obsessing over stuff. And so I kinda just tried to let it die. And then it, you know, it wouldn't. It was like the streams kept continuing and people were still messaging me and emailing and the shows were still selling out. And I just realized like,

• 4:37Speaker 01

  I don't know, you know, I believed everybody that said, this kid's got 15 minutes of fame and whatever. And I would have been during, when Richmond blew up, I would have been one of those guys who would have been like, oh, that stupid guy. You know, like, I would have been a hater too. So I'm, I was almost like rooting for them, like, yeah. You know, cause you gotta think, man, the first check from Richmond was $800,000. Like, I can, I could have lived a long time off of that money, you know? Like, I don't need a whole lot of, like, that was cra- you know, that was a decade or more of work for me easily. And so I was like, I was like, heck, yeah, I'm good. I'll just take it, you know? And, um, anyway, I say all that to say that now it's like, I'm gonna at least just, I'm gonna at least just hit it good one more time.

• 5:17Speaker 01

  And I've got, we've got six songs recorded now to come after scornful that are all like, I'm pretty proud of them. They're good. And so, um, I'm gonna put those out and then who knows after that, but.

• 5:27Joe Rogan?

  Let me tell you what's gonna happen. You got a relationship with those people now, man. They love you.

• 5:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:35Joe Rogan?

  It's just your mission in life. You know, you just got handed a wild hand of cards. And this is your, your deck of cards. You know, your deck of cards is, or your hand of cards is, you put this song out, this authentic song that's very simple. In this time where nothing's simple, in this time where everything's confusing and you don't know who's telling the truth. The news is lying to you. Everything is being funded. Nothing's organic. It's half the fucking traffic on social media is bots at least. Politicians are lying. Everybody's confused. People are simpin' for politicians.

• 6:16Joe Rogan?

  They're, they're getting paid to repeat talking points on television and on podcasts and all over social media. So when someone comes out with something like, that is just that dude telling you how he feels.

• 6:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:27Joe Rogan?

  Real raw, you know? I remember we had that conversation on the phone and I was like, if you can do that, you could do that again. You don't, they don't need anybody else. You don't need these motherfuckers who want you to cash out all these mon- they, they just, they, they're doing that because they think that you're gullible. They think that you're naive in the ways of the entertainment and music business. The first fucking live show you ever performed was a giant sold out show at a state fair. Do you know how crazy that is? This is your first live show?

• 6:57Speaker 01

  Well, that, that very first show was actually, um, it was even more amateur than that. It was at a farm market. It was, um... It wasn't even, there weren't even any tickets. It was just like, so it's crazy how it all, it just, it goes back to when I still believe just as much now as I did the last time I was here about, and I definitely won't bug everybody too much with all my hokey pokey religious stuff either. Like, I definitely want to read a little bit out before we go, but I do believe it was just, it was all too perfectly timed. But I had actually picked that date out at the, at the farm market before Richmond blew up. That was gonna be my, that was gonna be my first time playing live either way. Oh, wow. That date. It was like August the 12th, I think. I had booked it back in July with that Morris Farm Market.

• 7:38Speaker 01

  I was gonna get 200 bucks and go play for like, it was like two and a half hours. Like, seriously, and in that time, that's what hap- so like, I already had that date picked and yeah, it was just at a farm market and um, like kinda near the beach in Outer Banks, and they say like 12,000 people showed up. And that was the very first one. Yeah, and I just, I remember even then, like, I just, I just expected everybody to sing Richmond and that was gonna be it, and it'd be cool, and I'd go back to work the next week, but it was like, even in that crowd at that very first show, all the other songs they knew the words to, too. And I was like, this is like something, you know, but Wow. Um, the important thing, too, is that, the important thing to take away from this, and I said this during Richmond, but people, you know, it was like,

• 8:21Speaker 01

  take me out of it. The fact that people can now choose what they want and push it to the top, even in a system that's rigged, where there is bots, and there's mass marketing money going into songs, and like, labels spend a million dollars on their own song to get it up the label. Yeah. The fact that people can just decide they like something and just shoot it up to the top, like, people need to realize how much power and influence they have. At least for a short period in time in society. It's like the stars are aligned, where we can kinda, it's funny, technology like, can only develop on the backs of people using it. And so like, AI and, and all of this over the years, social media, like, all the backend of that. It's been, it's all that information's being sort of extracted from us.

• 9:05Speaker 01

  Like you think about like the, like the way a Tesla car rides on the road and it's watching you drive and you're like, it's like reading your analytics so it can learn how to drive better. We know AI, that's the only reason why they let everybody use AI. It's so it can make the AI, it's the user input that's, that's what makes it, you know? And so for a very short period in time, it's like the stars are aligned where they're having to like, while they're sucking all the humanity out of us to put into this AI, we also have full access to it. And like, so we can do, like even in the, even in the music business, you know, everything that the label used to held exclusive control over like the publicity and the marketing and the digital streaming service relationships, like all that stuff is now just à la carte to anybody. Like you don't need the, you

• 9:48Speaker 01

  don't need those big companies, all that stuff. You can just go and hire a really good social media person and you can work with a good music distributor without having to sign anything or give any of your rights up. And yeah, right now the people have the power is what I mean for like a very short period of time. But this should be a, this should just be a reminder of that. This song being able to go up into the iTunes charts, even with stuff with way bigger audiences, with all kinds of marketing reach, you know, the fact that this can just organically go into the iTunes charts like that and people, you know, it's just, that's the thing, that's the thing I always take away from it is just like, damn dude, if we could just get organized even for like two or three years, we could just fix everything. Like we had, like the people really do have the power, at least right now for, for a short window of time, but we really do. I mean.

• 10:32Joe Rogan?

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• 11:16Joe Rogan?

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• 13:19Joe Rogan?

  Are all in this together and that there's organizations that want to drive us apart. And the way to work out our differences is having conversations and negotiations and figuring out how to work it out. It's not lighting cop cars on fire. Like this is, you know?

• 13:36Speaker 01

  But the spirit of those, like, not to defend any of that crap, but I just, that rebellious nature in us is important too, though. It just has to be, it has to be directed correctly.

• 13:46Joe Rogan?

  You shouldn't be burning Waymos while holding a Mexican flag, trying not to get sent back to Mexico. I mean, you're confusing the fuck out of me, dog. Like, who is your oppressor? Is it the electric car? Is it the country which, you know, you want to stay, but you're holding a flag of another country? Like, what, why are you wearing a mask? Are you proud of this? Do you not want to get arrested? What are we doing? Are you scared of COVID? Like, I want to know.

• 14:16Speaker 01

  Well, it goes back to what you said about mass manipulation and also like, we don't, we've all sort of lost our identity. That's why politics has become so prevalent and like, the way people represent themselves to other people and like, you know, that's like, as, as our, as our culture and our tradition and like, sort of the, the knowledge of where our families and all of that stuff comes from. Like, we're just sort of all, we're just little boats out in a big ocean and we're looking for somewhere to, we're looking for some kind of identity to reach out and grab. And politics, they make politics so easy to reach out and grab. And just like in the same way that people just absorb themselves into sports.

• 14:53Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 14:54Speaker 01

  You know, they're way out of shape, but they, like, they refer to their sports team as we. Like, our, our defense did really-

• 14:59Joe Rogan?

  Jamie does that all the time. We won. Talking about a college.

• 15:03Speaker 02

  Where I'm from.

• 15:04Joe Rogan?

  Some college where he's from.

• 15:05Speaker 01

  Well, that's, maybe-

• 15:07Speaker 02

  Get out of here.

• 15:08Speaker 01

  Maybe if he's from there, though, then it doesn't count, but-

• 15:10Joe Rogan?

  I'm just fucking around.

• 15:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:12Joe Rogan?

  I'm a, I'm not a team sports guy, you know? I'm a combat sports guy and I would never say, "We won." Like, if Kamara Usman beat somebody, I'd never say, "We won." You know, Kamara would call me up, "What the fuck are you saying, man? We..." You know what I did in camp? You know, I mean, rounds I sparred, you know?

• 15:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, all the punches he took.

• 15:31Joe Rogan?

  It's so crazy, but if there's a group of guys, you could say we.

• 15:34Speaker 01

  But that's, I see that, like, I just see that becoming more and more prevalent, where there's not, like, I don't know. It's sort of just like, it's kind of even, even to expand on the thought of it, it's even like the way that now we've all just sort of, we're all in these subcategories of the way we would be if we were in prison. We're all like,

• 15:54Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 15:55Speaker 01

  You know, like in the same way that when we use the word black and white to describe, like, how many different types of white and black are there that all just get merged? It's like, it's, it like creates this maybe like group identity that's a lot easier to control, like.

• 16:08Joe Rogan?

  Sure. Well, and then it shifts over time. Like, my family wasn't white. My family was Italian. They were, they were disparaged when they first came to America from Europe. My grandfather used to tell me terrible stories of what happened to him when he was a boy, living in America as an Italian. They treated them the same way terribly racist people were treating people from Guatemala that sneak in here. It's the same kind of thing. Then after a while, they sort of integrated and now I'm white.

• 16:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, now, now you're just a white person.

• 16:36Joe Rogan?

  Now I'm just a regular white.

• 16:38Speaker 01

  But it's easy now and they're, like in big public narrative and stuff to, it's ea-, it's a lot easier to accuse you and thirty other different nationalities of people who are all very culturally different and unique and just call all of you white people and then pick the worst thing that one of those nationalities did and just cast it among the whole group. But it happens with that with every ethnicity, every identity. The go-, the goal is to like put everyone in the world in one of three or four buckets and then hopefully figure out how to just put all of them into one bucket eventually. It's like, it's just ma-, it's just, it's so much easier to control two or three different types of people than it is thirty or forty or a hundred or a thousand, you know?

• 17:14Joe Rogan?

  Which is also, I think, why they never fix the problems that ail our inner cities. They, they want to keep that conflict. I really believe that. Cause if somebody wanted to have a better, stronger economy, the first thing you would do is you want more people in the workforce. So you'd want less people that are disenfranchised, completely out of society, felons, all that stuff. That doesn't do anything but cost the country money, right? Unless you have private prisons. Now, in private prisons, those people become a business. And then that business contributes to the escalation of laws. And they wanna make sure the law stays in place, because that way, their business is always full. They have plenty of customers.

• 17:56Joe Rogan?

  Their customers are human beings that they turn into batteries to generate money. That's what it is. It's like, those people, every person they have in there, they get more money. Which is wild. It's wild that we allow that. But then it's also like, keeping a certain amount of crime in certain areas ensures that you're always gonna have debates over law enforcement. You're always gonna have conversations over disenfranchised, we need DEI, we need this, we need quotas, we need to hire more people of this or of that. Ignoring the fact that these, a lot of these things, especially with universities, are the most racist. Especially towards Asians. The racist is fucked towards Asians. There's lawsuits about it.

• 18:40Joe Rogan?

  Harvard, is that still going on, the Harvard lawsuit? Where they specifically made their application process, like the whole acceptance process, more difficult for Asians, cuz they were kicking too much ass. They had too many, like, Asian people that were willing to fucking work their ass off, study 12 hours a day, get straight A's. Like, man, there's too many of these folks. We gotta make it tougher.

• 19:04Speaker 01

  What did they do to make it more difficult specifically?

• 19:06Joe Rogan?

  They attached a bunch of things, I believe the argument is they attached a bunch of things, like, social stuff. Like, how much do you engage in, you know, activism? How often are you involved in, you know, social activities on campus? You know, what other things are you doing, other than just pure academic work? They're like, trying to slow them down. They're literally trying to slow them down.

• 19:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:35Speaker 01

  That's another great example too, like, uh, like even just to, even just to, that they can blanket Asian like that as such a, like, like-

• 19:44Joe Rogan?

  It's Indian, it's Chinese, there's a lot of, but-

• 19:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:48Joe Rogan?

  People that come from a hard place are willing to work hard. That's the difference. And the, the problem with meritocracy is that some motherfuckers will go for it. And if you get a whole country of people going for it, that gets scary for the people that just want to take naps.

• 20:00Speaker 01

  It's the same psychology that goes in, like, in a lot of the smaller Appalachian towns, like, um, like where we, where we recorded was really close to Bramwell, West Virginia. But if you look at like, even if you look at Bramwell, West Virginia and their recent political history, like, the last mayor they had, she, she embezzled money from the town and there was like- You know, and this is in a very small town, like, so, so government corruption exists, like-

• 20:25Joe Rogan?

  Everywhere.

• 20:26Speaker 01

  And it almost is like maybe in those big cities, I, I, I understand definitely that I think things are intentionally neglected, like to create chaos and to create this, like you said, this need for more resources and more. But it's also just that maybe a lot of those people that are in positions are just very spineless and self-centered and like, they don't even care that people are dying in their streets. They're worried about the, the, the money that can be made and the ego and the power of it. It goes back to kind of what I said in that ARCC speech about lack of leadership. I just see that like, if we had people in big cities or in small Appalachian towns that had like a real backbone to them and like, and, and had, they were in a real position of like leadership where they wanted to fix things, that a lot of that stuff would get addressed and covered, but we just don't have the right people in power, maybe even is what it is. Even in, even in local and state government.

• 21:11Joe Rogan?

  The right people don't run. They don't want that job, man. They don't want that smoke. They don't want people attacking them. They don't want any of it. The right people are the people that don't want to be president.

• 21:20Speaker 01

  It's almost, it's almost like they've made these positions only appealing to people who are like-

• 21:24Joe Rogan?

  Sociopaths.

• 21:24Speaker 01

  Sort of criminals. Sociopaths are criminals, yeah.

• 21:26Joe Rogan?

  Real, for real. Like, who the fuck wants to run everything? You gotta be crazy. I don't even like running my whole house. I don't like having employees. It's too much, it's too much responsibility.

• 21:36Speaker 01

  What do you think would happen if just some normal people ran the country though? Like, just some average, just like, what if me and you just went and ran the, what if me if you ran for president? What would happen?

• 21:44Joe Rogan?

  We'd get killed. We'd get put in a fucking convertible, rolled through Dallas.

• 21:48Speaker 01

  They would definitely be able to hit my big head, that's for sure. They wouldn't-

• 21:51Joe Rogan?

  My head's not that little either. You want a cigar?

• 21:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, let's do it.

• 21:54Joe Rogan?

  Get on that big dog.

• 21:55Speaker 01

  Well, I, I smoked a cigar with a guy one time that-

• 22:00Joe Rogan?

  What happened? This is the second cigar you've ever smoked?

• 22:02Speaker 01

  It ended up all on the internet, yeah.

• 22:05Joe Rogan?

  This is your second cigar ever?

• 22:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'll just keep it, keep it running for a minute.

• 22:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and just pull on it. The, the real cigar guys, they want you to do that first. You kind of bake the outside.

• 22:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, like it's a, like it's, I'm in high school and it's like a fat joint.

• 22:19Joe Rogan?

  Oh, imagine a joint like this. I guarantee you there's some people out there, some rappers, rolling blunts, blunts this thick.

• 22:28Joe Rogan?

  You gotta do it this way or they get mad at you.

• 22:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, this is really good.

• 22:32Joe Rogan?

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• 23:53Speaker 01

  Well, hey, I did, I did smoke, I smoked half a Black and Mild with Chris Davison from the Davison Brothers while we were on tour one time, so I guess that counts as, as a cigar.

• 24:02Joe Rogan?

  Kind of a cigar.

• 24:05Joe Rogan?

  Swisher sweets, they kinda count as cigars.

• 24:07Speaker 01

  I have a, talking about Swisher sweets, I have a friend of mine that I ride side by sides with a lot. Named Jeremy, and that's all he smokes are Swisher sweets. And that's like his, anytime I see him, I'm like, yo, what's up Swisher sweet? So I ended up hitting him up on Instagram, Swisher sweet. And I said, hey, I got a friend of mine. I was like, will you just send him some merch? And they totally did. Like, he got this whole like, he got like all these shirts and hats and stuff. He's the only guy I know that smokes them, but he's like, all day smoking them. He's a, um, he was in the Marines and stuff, and he's, he's out now and just like rides a boat around all day and hangs, he's like, lives his dream life now and smokes Swisher sweets, so.

• 24:42Joe Rogan?

  I wonder what percentage of Swisher sweets get sliced open for blunts? It's gotta be 50, right? Jamie, higher? 60%? 75 or something. 75%?

• 24:54Speaker 01

  Jeremy's the only guy I know who really smokes them without putting weed in them or anything. He's like, he loves them. Yeah.

• 25:00Joe Rogan?

  Does he inhale them?

• 25:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:02Joe Rogan?

  Bro. Ron White does that with them little tiny.

• 25:05Speaker 01

  Ron White.

• 25:06Joe Rogan?

  Those little tiny cigars. What are those things called again, Jamie? We have a bunch of them. Little cigarettos or something. Yeah, he brought me a case of them.

• 25:13Speaker 01

  Did I ever tell you the, my Ron White story?

• 25:15Joe Rogan?

  Nah, I don't think so. Did you?

• 25:17Speaker 01

  I'm gonna mess it all up, but that's okay, cause that's what the, that's what this is for, is to mess stuff up. So. It was the night we recorded, gosh, my head is like spinning now from this thing. This is crazy. Um, the night that we.

• 25:29Joe Rogan?

  A lot of tobacco.

• 25:30Speaker 01

  The day that we recorded the podcast that night. Is when we went to the mothership, mothership for the first time, cause Tom Segura invited me and.

• 25:37Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 25:38Speaker 01

  So we're sitting in there in the green room, Ron White's there and Tom and, um. A bunch of people, William Montgomery, and I got to meet all these really cool people that night. And so Tom was like, man, you ought to get up at the end of our set and do a couple songs. And we only had one guitar, and I really wanted my guitar Joey, you know, the guy from, he's in the scornful video, Joey Davis. I wanted him to get up there and get to do it with me. And Ron's like, well, I got a guitar in my house, but, and dude, he's gonna, he's supposed to be getting on. Stage to do a set in like, less than an hour, you know, 45 minutes? So him and Joey get in his car and they run every red light from his house to back. And go and get Ron White's guitar, and that's what we used for our second.

• 26:18Joe Rogan?

  15 minutes away, that was such a risky move.

• 26:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, like he said, they flew there and back.

• 26:22Joe Rogan?

  So you guys performed on stage at the mothership? That was the first time a musical act had ever performed there?

• 26:28Speaker 01

  Supposedly, yeah.

• 26:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, a hundred percent, and except for back when it was a musical venue.

• 26:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:33Joe Rogan?

  I mean, Stevie Ray Vaughan perform, you saw the photos that we have in the tunnel.

• 26:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:37Joe Rogan?

  Stevie Ray Vaughan performing there, I think it was eighty-three he was there.

• 26:40Speaker 01

  I think if, um, I think, I think even by the end of this weekend, we will be able to really have a good blueprint for sound in there again, like, it's, it's a small room, but I think it would just sound, you could really have an immersive listening space for people to like, just such a cool spot to maybe do music now and then.

• 26:58Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, no, I think it would be a great spot to do music. It's just, we're always packed with comedians, you know, we'd only do it for someone like you for fun.

• 27:06Speaker 01

  It could be a lot, yeah, it could be like every once in a while, like, I love the idea of it being like a live recorded thing that, cause I, my favorite music to listen to is the live version of almost anything anyway.

• 27:16Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 27:17Speaker 01

  Of people, and it would be cool to go back and, I mean, our plan with this, we're gonna record, we'll record Friday and Saturday night, and my plan is to put out some kind of mothership, live at the mothership and like have some of the money go back to the Humane Society.

• 27:31Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's awesome.

• 27:32Speaker 01

  Um.

• 27:32Joe Rogan?

  That's beautiful.

• 27:33Speaker 01

  We're gonna record it and just see what, see what happens, but even if we just get a couple songs out of it or something and put them out and.

• 27:39Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's badass.

• 27:40Speaker 01

  But, yeah, I like that, I really like the Austin Humane Society, they, um, I was looking at all their, they got like some really funny dogs and stuff on there too, but I, uh, I think it'd be, I think it's cool getting to do something with them.

• 27:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I can't go to those places. I would have a hundred dogs.

• 27:54Speaker 01

  They got this one dog on their website, I should have, I should have sent it to you, but I don't know, maybe Jamie can find it, but it's like, there's this one like older dog, I think he's a chihuahua or something, but he's got this real funny name like Buddy or Poppy or something, but he's like the most like, he doesn't have any teeth, his tongue's hanging out, I was like, that's my, I could just take him home with me, Buddy or something.

• 28:12Joe Rogan?

  I've had a bunch of rescue dogs in my life. Um, it is a thing, there's like a relationship you have with them that's different than any other dog. Like, they fucking, they're so, they love you so much. They're so happy you rescued them, like, they know that you rescued them. Whereas my dog, Marshall, he has no idea. He's like living the best life, he's just like, everyone's my friend.

• 28:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:34Joe Rogan?

  He has, uh, he's never fucking growled at a person in his life, he's nothing but sweet.

• 28:39Speaker 01

  Think about how lucky you gotta be to be Joe Rogan's dog, that's pretty cool, like, what's the odds of that out of all the dogs?

• 28:44Joe Rogan?

  Lucky in mine to have a dog like him.

• 28:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:46Joe Rogan?

  He's the best dog ever.

• 28:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know.

• 28:48Joe Rogan?

  He's like a little human. He's like a human. Like, we have conversations. Like, he knows like not just words. He knows like when I'm saying something, like what to do. Like, he, me and that dog are like locked in. It's wild. He's the best. He's just all love, like for everybody that comes over. Like, when people come over the studio and he's here, he just does a circle. He's like, I'm your friend! And then it looks you, I'm your friend! And he just goes around and he sees you, the first thing he does is flop on his back. Like, I know you wanna rub my belly. Come on! Yeah. He's just so used to being just loved dogs.

• 29:26Speaker 01

  Yeah. I just got a, um, well, I had, you know, I had the three, I had three dogs and then I lost my white shepherd like right after we got off a tour. He got bone cancer and he was gone within like a month or month and a half.

• 29:37Joe Rogan?

  You know, it's a really important thing that we should probably tell people about right now when we're talking about cancer. Stop feeding your dog processed food. I know it's expensive, but if you can get it, get yourself, your dog, real food. There's companies like, uh, Farmer's Dog, that's what you use, right? Farmer's Dog, and they'll send you like real food and you feed your dog real food. It's like real, human-grade meat and vegetables. Your dog will be way better off, just like you would be way better off. Anything that can sit on a shelf for six months and not rot is not good for you.

• 30:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:12Joe Rogan?

  It just sustains them, you know? And then, you know, obviously, dogs are running around drinking out of puddles and he knows what fucking toxins they're exposed to.

• 30:22Speaker 01

  Mine eat a lot of like horse shit and stuff too. They're obsessed with it, but they, um...

• 30:26Joe Rogan?

  You get, but you're gonna get a healthier dog if you feed him real food. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying it's a cure to all ills, but man, it fixed my dog quick. Marshall was starting to get a little chubby and we were trying to lessen his food, but he was always hungry and I was like, this sucks. And then we found out, the company that I was using is Maeve, M-A-E-V. And they sell you frozen food and he eats it frozen. And it's just meat and vegetables and he fucking loves it. And he gobbles it up and he lost the body weight, his coat looked better, he had way more energy. I'm like, of course, he's eating real food instead of eating some processed bullshit that's filled with preservatives. You could sit on a fucking shelf for it. Like, if you only ate protein bars all day long and nothing but protein bars,

• 31:11Joe Rogan?

  you'd probably get sick. How is that thing just sitting there? Like, how, how can you just live off of that?

• 31:17Speaker 01

  Plus, you gotta, you gotta get tired of eating the same thing every day.

• 31:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that too. Yeah.

• 31:22Speaker 01

  Like, at this point, I mean, I feel like for your dog, he might as well live a pretty cool life. He's got, you know, he's Joe Rogan's dog. He can't just be eating regular dog food anyway.

• 31:31Joe Rogan?

  I, uh, people don't know, though. They think dog food is what you give dogs. That's the problem. Like, they, they need to understand, like, dogs are just like any other animal, like, human beings. What they eat has a giant effect on their overall physical health.

• 31:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, I, I've been feeding mine eggs. We've got a bunch of land birds now and meat birds and stuff.

• 31:51Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's nice.

• 31:52Speaker 01

  But they'll, they just eat raw eggs.

• 31:54Joe Rogan?

  How long do your meat birds live before you whack them?

• 31:58Speaker 01

  Um, so we ju- I just, I've got some now that are about two weeks old and they'll be gone, like, they'll be gone before it starts to cool off. It's quick. It's, um,

• 32:10Speaker 01

  I wanna say like two and a half months with them. They get, they get to the point where they get so fat, they actually can't hold themselves up anymore.

• 32:16Joe Rogan?

  That is so crazy.

• 32:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:18Joe Rogan?

  Cause I don't have meat birds. I have egg-laying hens and these little ladies just run around all day long.

• 32:23Speaker 01

  You just let you run loose?

• 32:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 32:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 32:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, I do, I do the chicken tractors, but then I will let them out during the day some too, just so they can run around, but.

• 32:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's good for them. Makes the eggs healthier.

• 32:35Speaker 01

  They're hilarious to watch, too. They're just great.

• 32:37Joe Rogan?

  My friend who runs, uh, he, he has, uh, meat ones, and he said, he waits until their legs break. And I go, what? He goes, they get so big that their legs break and that's when you kill them. I'm like, Jesus Christ, what did we do to these fucking chickens?

• 32:52Speaker 01

  It's kinda, it's kinda sick, yeah.

• 32:54Joe Rogan?

  It is totally sick, cause I'm seeing my chickens that are years old, just running around.

• 33:00Joe Rogan?

  And these fucking chickens get to be two months old and their legs break from the weight of their bodies.

• 33:05Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, it's kind of depressing, but that's why, at least in their short life, I tried to let them have, I let them get us some sunshine and run around and read stories to them at night and all that, and that way it's not been so bad. That way it doesn't feel like I'm just a, like a horrible dictate, like a chicken dictator or something.

• 33:19Joe Rogan?

  The amount of chickens that get whacked in this country every year is crazy.

• 33:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, and honestly, raising birds in your yard is so much better than buying them from Tyson or something like that.

• 33:29Joe Rogan?

  Oh, so that's a regular chicken on the left from 1957, and then by the time 1978 rolled around, we got them pretty fat.

• 33:38Speaker 01

  It kind of looks like, it just looks kind of like what happened with all of us, from then, from back then till now.

• 33:43Joe Rogan?

  And, you know, probably no coincidence. We're all eating terrible food too, but I think there's something going on with their genetics too. I think they, look at that thing, that's crazy. Look at the size of that butterball. That looks like a fucking soccer ball. Isn't that nuts? That's nuts. That's a chicken? That is fucking insane. Look at that one sitting there in a ball. Look at that one that's in a ball. Look at that. That is bananas. Wow.

• 34:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're still my favorite. I've tried, so far I've tried, um, I do guinea birds, turkeys, and we've tried to, tried a few different types of chickens and stuff, but, um.

• 34:19Joe Rogan?

  Turkey's overrated. Turkey's good.

• 34:21Speaker 01

  They're funny. Oh, yeah, to eat, they're probably overrated, but they're really funny in person.

• 34:25Joe Rogan?

  They're, they're good to eat if you eat them right after you get them out of the oven, or if it's gonna be on a sandwich with a bunch of other shit on it. Otherwise, they're dry and boring. It's a weird bird. It's a bird that like somehow or another, we, it became our holiday bird. You know what I mean? It's very strange.

• 34:41Speaker 01

  They make this real guttural noise. It's like, um, it's like a vibration more than a noise, but the males, they have this like crazy like, I, I can't, I don't even know how to describe it, but it's like, it's, it's a noise they make internally that you can hear. It sounds like, um, it sounds like a UFO. It sounds like when you're getting sucked up in a UFO, or it's this crazy noise like that, yeah.

• 35:01Joe Rogan?

  Oh, really?

• 35:02Speaker 01

  But I liked, they're like dogs to me. I've got a couple, Timmy and Tommy, and they, they run around the yard. Yeah, well, I did. Timmy's now, Timmy's in the freezer, but we still got. We still got Tommy, so.

• 35:14Joe Rogan?

  Tommy's still your friend?

• 35:17Joe Rogan?

  Breakthrough on the birds domesticated in a gene, ah, there it is, that played a key role came in 2010 with a study of the genomes of eight different populations of present day chickens from around the world. Researchers found they all carry two copies of one version of a gene called the thyroid stimulating hormone receptor, which apparently set in motion changes that plumped up the birds. This dominant version of the gene, or allele, had swept through all the domesticated chickens regardless of whether they were boilers, broilers, rather, bred for size or strains, bred for laying many eggs, although the precise function of the gene is not known, it regulates metabolism, reproduction. So probably stimulated chickens to lay more eggs year round. So big ass chickens that lay more eggs.

• 36:01Speaker 02

  It started off as from a decree from a pope a thousand years ago.

• 36:05Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 36:06Speaker 02

  Ban on four-legged animals.

• 36:09Joe Rogan?

  What?

• 36:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:10Joe Rogan?

  They got tough and banned meat from four-legged animals on fasts. Oh, on fasts, which numbered 130 days out of the year. Damn, 130 fasts? What were they doing back then?

• 36:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, you couldn't eat, like, you had to fast all of Lent, which is 40 days. That's like the Christmas, Easter fast. You probably had to do it again around Christmas.

• 36:29Joe Rogan?

  But when they say fast, but you could eat chicken?

• 36:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:33Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's not a fast.

• 36:34Speaker 02

  Or fish.

• 36:35Joe Rogan?

  That's bullshit. Yeah, the Lent thing when I was a kid, I remember that. I remember.

• 36:39Speaker 01

  I don't know, I can't, I can't.

• 36:40Joe Rogan?

  Fish on Friday.

• 36:41Speaker 01

  I don't think that the Catholic Church, I just can't imagine the Catholic Church ever coming out with some kind of decree that just doesn't make total sense, though, you know, for everybody to follow. I don't know.

• 36:50Joe Rogan?

  Forever.

• 36:51Speaker 01

  I'm sure it's some, I'm sure there's some, yeah, forever. I'm sure there's some reasonable explanation.

• 36:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they definitely have it dialed in.

• 36:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's not like churches a thousand years ago would, would ever do anything that didn't make a lot of sense, so.

• 37:01Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think back then, when did they stop being allowed to have wives and shit? When did that happen? Like, when did the Catholic Church put a ban, like, when did they make it so that everybody had to be celibate? Boy, what a stupid idea that was. You want to get people completely disconnected from society and sexually insanely repressed? Just, you give them Salt Peter and tell them they can't beat off.

• 37:27Speaker 02

  It became canon law in the 11th century, later reinforced at the Council of Trent 1545. So I bet there was, it sounds like there's 300, 400 years of a little slippery times.

• 37:38Joe Rogan?

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• 38:22Joe Rogan?

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• 38:33Speaker 01

  Ultimately, what is the motive? It's all control, obviously, but just, it's crazy to think about all the things that, you know, the church, at one point in time, the church was almost like the power structure. They were like the government for a long time, you know?

• 38:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, for Rome.

• 38:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I mean, they had immense power. The, like, the Pope would decide whether or not armies were gonna be sent places.

• 38:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:56Joe Rogan?

  It's nuts. Yeah. And if you look at the Vatican, you go, oh, this is what you guys did. You fucking stole everybody's art. They have so much art. Like, how'd you get this?

• 39:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:05Joe Rogan?

  How did you get billions of dollars in art? I mean, it's kind of cool. I love the fact that it's there and you can visit it. And you should visit it if you've never been to the Vatican, it's fucking bananas.

• 39:16Speaker 01

  In a way, it's like, there's always been somebody trying to use a moral high ground to control other people. Like, now it's the opposite, right? It's like, now it's people, now it's like the people opposite of church that are sort of like trying to control people through this moral authority of like, this is what's right. And ju- like, this sort of new society that we have to live in where everything has to be comfortable and nobody's allowed to be offended and we're not, and it's like all this. That's like the same authoritarian psychology that was in the old church. It's like, this is the moral, you have to follow this because it's the moral high ground of, you know, and you're not allowed to speak. It's like, it's always somebody trying to control somebody else with this virtuous bunch of propaganda that. And it, yeah, it's fun, like I was talking, you know, my, a couple, most of the people on my team, I say most, there's only really four of us now, like in my music business.

• 40:01Speaker 01

  But two of them are from Ireland and they were, and my tour manager was telling me about like, growing up in, you know, growing up in Dublin when he was younger. Um, I guess like back in the seventies or eighties and the, um, like just, just the stigma within the church and all the, like, so much stuff that the church was doing wrong that would get kind of covered up and brushed to the side. And it's just cra- it's really crazy when you read into all that, like how, like how much corruption existed back then. You know, we, it's like, now it's, now it's easy to point to corruption in government and in society and everything else. But it's not like, the church is more dead now than it is corrupt, I'd say. But back then, it was just like this power hungry thing, you know, and that, to me, that's not real church.

• 40:42Speaker 01

  That's just, like I said, that's just government or a regime using church as a, you know, using God as a way to control people. But it's a lot different than, than what church should be or could be.

• 40:51Joe Rogan?

  For sure. I mean, that's, it's, that's just a function of human beings when they get in power. Human beings, when they get in power, they want more power. Like, if you're in the automobile business, automobile business, and you're making cars, you want to make more cars. Want to make more cars, want to sell more cars, got to sell more cars. If I'm in the power business, I want more power. I don't want this amount of power, I want more power. These people are trying to take my power away, I want extra power. The best way to keep them from taking my power away is to get more power and get it so that they can never take my power away. You know, lock it down, make the elections bullshit, you know, make it like Russia. Hey, Putin won again, everybody clap.

• 41:26Speaker 01

  Did you, have you seen that video that went around recently of, I think it was in Romania, but there was like a overthrow that happened in a day. It was like the, it was a, it was from back in the eighties, it was a, I think it was like a, it was a dictator that, it was over Romania, I believe. I don't know, I'm, I'm not on the internet a whole lot anymore, thankfully.

• 41:45Joe Rogan?

  Thankfully.

• 41:45Speaker 01

  But, um, I remember watching a bit of this video where this is like a Romanian dictator who had, he had been in power for like twenty years and had done a lot of oppressive stuff, but overall was like maintaining power and then, at some point, a police officer or a military official or something shot, I think like a, like a preacher or a pope or something and the, the dictator dude took the side of the police and it sort of was like a cultural shift and basically like, he went to give this big speech and all these people showed up and they had applause playing over loudspeakers, but really the crowd was there to like mob. And within like a day, they had like taken the whole government over, the whole military turned against them. It was a big video that just got uploaded about it, like maybe a month ago. I think it was Romania, I believe.

• 42:28Speaker 01

  But, um, it was so quick, it was like he went from being in this position of power and like ruling over everything and having just, just extreme wealth and the whole military at his disposal to, to everyone turning on him and he was publicly executed, I think the day after that speech. But that was just something I watched. Here we go, yeah.

• 42:45Joe Rogan?

  Executing a dictator, open wounds of Romania's Christmas revolution. Whoa, they did it on Christmas. Damn. Damn. Wow. And there's a video on this?

• 42:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's a video on YouTube that, that somebody sent me that I was watching through. It was just, it just showed out, it just showed though, going back to like if enough people have their minds made the same way, they can just pretty much do anything.

• 43:09Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 43:10Speaker 01

  But, um, I believe it was, it was within like a two day period that all this happened. He went from being in power to being publicly executed and they held up elections afterwards and like, and I don't know all the history of it, I know very little, but it's just something that seemed really interesting to me that I've never, I was never taught this in school or anything, I know that. But of course, I didn't pay a whole lot of attention while I was there either, so maybe I, maybe I did get taught, I don't know.

• 43:32Joe Rogan?

  There's been so much war in that part of the world, man, for so long. For so long, it's like baked into the ground. The crazy shit that's going on in Ukraine right now, have you seen that they uh they're flying these drones that you can't jam? And the way they are, they have like miles of fiber optic cable attached to them.

• 43:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:52Joe Rogan?

  This is so crazy. They're like fishing. They're like fishing with a drone. And now birds are making like nests of this fiber optic stuff. They're picking it up like, oh, this is perfect. Make a little nest with this shit.

• 44:04Speaker 02

  Did you see how they got those drones in for the attack on the planes recently?

• 44:08Joe Rogan?

  What did they do? They drove them in in trucks, right?

• 44:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, they were like, I don't know if buried is the right word, but they were like secretly in the trucks and then like they all came out at once or something like?

• 44:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 44:18Speaker 02

  Opened up of these like log cabins or something?

• 44:21Joe Rogan?

  They all came out and they all went out and attacked all the planes.

• 44:23Speaker 02

  Sheds, there were sheds loaded on the trucks.

• 44:26Joe Rogan?

  Well, pretty fucking ingenious, man. And they said it took like a year and a half to come up with this plan?

• 44:32Speaker 01

  This will change war forever though, I guess. I mean, artificial intelligence will too.

• 44:37Joe Rogan?

  I'm reading a book about it right now. Um, a fiction book, one of the Gray Man books.

• 44:44Joe Rogan?

  That is specifically about uh using autonomous weapons. It's um The Chaos Agent by uh Mark Graney. It's uh, it's about a guy who's this billionaire who develops this autonomous weapons weapons program. But they're doing that. They're doing that right now. And we don't know like how advanced China stuff is. Like, but we know their drones are insanely advanced. Like their drone shows that they put on? They they just put on another one recently, like the largest ever drone show. And you watch these coordinated things in the sky that are creating images and you're like, that 100% could be a weapon.

• 45:25Joe Rogan?

  Like that thing can, you can get that thing to be so precise. They coordinate together. All you have to do is like, put a suicide drone. Put like, look at this thing. Look at these things, bro. These are drones.

• 45:38Joe Rogan?

  How nuts is this? I mean, that is fucking bananas. Look at that.

• 45:46Joe Rogan?

  I mean, it's crazy.

• 45:46Speaker 01

  I've heard, you know, this is all just generalization stuff, but I've definitely, I've heard people make pretty compelling arguments about like, you know, all these sort of like prophetic visions of the end of times, all the stuff in the sky and all the imagery and all that, that a lot of that could be. I don't know, I just, I, I see a time coming very soon where the, where warfare is conducted with these drones and also with like probably ground machinery too. Like you see, they've got Tesla bots and other variants of that that are able to catch tennis balls and organize groceries and these things are all fed off of artificial intelligence, which knows everything about all of us collectively. It sees where we go and what we do and what we say and what we shop for and what we look for and how we drive. And it's like this, almost like this very godlike thing.

• 46:29Speaker 01

  And I don't think that it even matters whose AI it is, if it's China or ours or some private company. I think it's like at some point it will just be the thing. We won't, it, it won't even be China's AI anymore. It will just be.

• 46:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it'll say fuck you, China. We're taking over. We don't believe in countries. We believe in the hive mind.

• 46:46Speaker 01

  How do you stop that? Like, how do you, like, it goes into, it goes into industry and creativity and almost everything, almost everything that a human can provide out, outside of very select few things can be emulated and replicated and done by it. It makes us practically irrelevant in the eyes of.

• 47:04Joe Rogan?

  In, in a lot of ways, it doesn't make us irrelevant in art because you're always going to want art from a person. You're always going to want art. You're always going to want paintings from a real person. You're always going to want music from a real person. You're always going to want.

• 47:17Speaker 01

  I don't know though, like I, I think with, I, I think AI is already like deeply ingrained in music. I don't think, I can't, I don't know, I would bet, I'd bet a lot that most of the new big song, the big hot songs that get written and just the big, I think AI drives all that. I know for a short period of time, I used a social media company in Nashville. There was also a period of time that I used a management company in Nashville. And both of those girls I worked with, that both of those companies who were helping me with social media stuff, they even had AI like trying to write my captions and stuff. And I would always just like, it was always the most dumb sounding stuff, but it was like. If they would take pictures from after a show or something and they would want to make a post on Instagram the next day that says, "Oh, had so much fun in this town. It was,

• 48:02Speaker 01

  I'll never forget it. Can't wait to see you next time." And it was just like this little, they had like a little thing, but it, it pre-wrote all these based off of like how I wrote in the past and stuff. And it's weird how, um, I, it goes back to what you said about most of what's on the internet isn't real anyway. But I think in music, AI is much more prevalent than we realize. I just think it's like kept in the, I don't, people aren't going to say that they're using it, but I think like in the big, these big songwriter circles and things where they have to generate, you have to generate 20 or 30 songs a week and like, there's all this pressure. I mean, like, and that's your job and you're like, "Oh my God, what am I gonna do?" Like, you know, like, "I can't go back and live with my parent. I gotta do," I don't know. I just, I don't see how people aren't, it's in almost, people use AI in almost every job now. I know like people who are in sales

• 48:45Speaker 01

  who use it to like help them manage their customer bases and who they're gonna call on and what they're gonna, I just, I don't know. I think it will become, I think it's already becoming ingrained in us. We're already so addicted that we're so reliant to technology. It's pitiful, you know, just like how hard it is to walk around without a phone, you know?

• 49:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, we're integrated.

• 49:02Speaker 01

  Even, even with, when I had periods of time where I knew I had months off and that I would always at least, I got to the point where I, I weaned myself down to like this, I bought a flip phone from Walmart that still runs on a Verizon SIM. But that's, that's what I'd carry and two or three people knew my, but even then I always felt like I at least had to have a flip phone on me in case like, what happens if you're out in the woods and break your leg or, I don't know where, like, but they are now a part, like those phones are a part of us. We don't go anywhere without them.

• 49:29Joe Rogan?

  You never have no phone.

• 49:30Speaker 01

  We feel vulnerable without them, so.

• 49:32Joe Rogan?

  I know. You really do. Like if you go for a quick walk without a phone, you're like, "Oh my God."

• 49:36Speaker 01

  So when the time comes, when it's like, will there, if there even is a definitive time, but it's like when we have to choose between integrating with AI or not, most people are gonna do it. Most people will just immediately submit and be a part of it and be maybe even excited to be a part of it.

• 49:50Joe Rogan?

  It probably won't be a decision that you're allowed to make. It's probably something that's gonna be, if you wanna function in society, you have to integrate.

• 49:58Speaker 01

  Like, we talked about in that text about how it feels like we're in an alternate dimension and it seems like there's these like things coming. You know, it's like, it does, it does, and also it is just because things happen so fast and chaotic that we can't really keep up with anything. One day the submarine collapses and the next day this other crazy thing happens and then, you know, I don't know, it's just like, it's so hard to keep up with what, anything of what's really going on. I think the problem is that we have to start having people gather together again and hang out and not just make all of our hangouts digital because the systems, like you said, there's bots and algorithms and marketing approaches and psychology that's just deeply rooted that goes into like just the way we fundamentally communicate now as societies and just globally like

• 50:38Speaker 01

  we all just talk on, I mean, gosh, like I've used this example before somewhere talking, but it's like, I think about back when I was in high school, like my high school girlfriend, you know, we would have some trivial argument about something. There was no way that me and her were gonna text and figure out how to fix that. And now, you know, like, and that was a high school relationship, like, that was over something stupid. It's like real world problems, you can't fix just texting and I don't think we can fix all this shit on X and Facebook and all that. I think it's like, it's, I think people just have, people are, we're almost to the point now where we prefer socializing on the internet because it's, it's almost like our minds have become more adapted to think that way, but it's,

• 51:16Speaker 01

  but it's, we're, we're in this digital world chasing and emulating all of the things that we're, that are, that we have this void from, from not having in real life, like, I don't know, it's, it makes it very complicated to fix anything when we're, the only way that we can, we have this amazing intricate English language where all these words can mean all these different things and it's so easy to put everybody together in a digital space with AI and bots and manipulation and, and algorithms and big companies and how do you fix all that in that space? It's just like, it's, you'll never, it's like, in a house, we're just in a house of mirrors, you know?

• 51:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you, you're just supposed to not engage. That's what people need to stop doing, but the problem is... The consequences of the actions of the rest of the world do affect you if they're big. And so you worry about the big ones. So you pay attention. So you gotta pay attention to the bad news of eight billion people. Which is just unsustainable. And it's also this ability to interact or not interact as you choose all throughout the day. Like you don't have to be invested in a conversation. If you and I are to have a conversation and you ask me about something and I start to answer and I just wander off. You're like, well, how fucking rude. But on the internet, that's normal. Like so many post something, somebody have a response an hour later and nobody cares. It's like, I guess he was busy.

• 52:29Joe Rogan?

  You know, it's normal because you're engaging and not engaging. It's very unhuman. All of it is unhuman and it's all like constant. Even if you think you're immune to it, there's this constant input of other people's thoughts into your own that makes you foggy. It gives you like, I was talking to Sugar Sean O'Malley about it once and he said, I get a low level anxiety just scrolling. I'm like, yeah, right? Like, what is that?

• 52:53Speaker 01

  I think it's on purpose, though. That that's captive. That keeps you, it keeps you engaged, though.

• 52:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but I don't even know if it's on purpose. I mean, I think it's just they figured it out along the way. That people get engaged like that. Like, that's why when you open up TikTok, it immediately starts playing you things. Like, you're you're on the hook right away. The Instagram, you gotta choose. Like, sometimes you might get a picture of someone's dog, aww. And then you scroll up and it's a music video. And then you scroll up and it's a guy getting assassinated. And you you get to choose. You know, with TikTok, they just start hammering you.

• 53:24Speaker 01

  Even with Instagram, it seems very flashy. Like, there's always stuff, you know, and there's always, sex always ends up somewhere in it. Like, something gets popped up or whatever and you just.

• 53:32Joe Rogan?

  It's all for engagement and that's your attention is what's worth so much money, which is so strange. It's so strange. Your data and your attention. Nobody thought about the data part. Boy, if we thought about the data part and they set up different regulations back in the 1990s when AOL first burst onto the scene. If they realized, like, oh, data is going to be one of the most valuable things and tech companies that do nothing but offer you free email and a free search engine are gonna be the biggest fucking companies in the world. And it's because of your data. And they're gonna be like siphoning off your data without.

• 54:05Speaker 01

  Telling you about it and you're even gonna be lying about it. They're gonna be running like little secret things where they're snatching up your contact lists and snatching up your email and all your friends and trying to get them to buy shit. It's like.

• 54:17Joe Rogan?

  This episode is brought to you by Squarespace. If you're thinking about building a website, you should try Squarespace. I know because I use it. That's right. JoeRogan.com is powered by Squarespace. It has all the features that you need to create a standout website like an AI-enhanced website builder, SEO optimization tools, and seamless checkouts with mobile pay links. Head to Squarespace.com/Rogan for a free trial. And when you are ready to launch, use the offer code ROGEN to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. This episode is brought to you by NOCO. You're miles from home. You turn the key, nothing. Dead battery.

• 55:00Joe Rogan?

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• 55:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, it's, it, yeah, I mean, even just, that's what I mean, even just the little bit of access I have to my fanbase and like the reports that can be ran on like what they do and what and who they are and like it's seeing, seeing it from that side is just, it just really, um, it goes back, like I said, just saying that I, I think we're, for right now in society, our job is to feed this machine. And so, and it know, like, it just knows entirely too much about all of us. And that's very important in every aspect and whether it's in like comedy, music, um,

• 56:12Speaker 01

  Any kind of pop culture, like everything, all of our reactions and behaviors to what is presented to us on these platforms only makes it refined down even further and they're able to see like your lookalike audiences and what they look at and where they shop and what they like and what their retention is on certain videos that have this certain type of thing and it's like this whole just it's just a lot of psychology that goes into it that people don't realize it's very easy to download the app and get on there and look and

• 56:38Joe Rogan?

  But you don't have to pay attention to it. You could just be yourself. That's also possible.

• 56:43Speaker 01

  That's, I just couldn't find a way to be on there and still

• 56:48Speaker 01

  the only time I'm ever on my profiles is if I'm with Draven or somebody and we're like looking through comments together and replying to stuff or doing things but I don't have any of it I haven't had anything logged in on any of my devices since last November.

• 56:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, just keep doing what you're doing. Like, um that's, the thing that I was saying about what AI can't recreate in music yeah, I'm sure there's AI songs and there was a great AI song by Drake that they made that they had to get removed, right? Don't they remove those?

• 57:16Joe Rogan?

  I think so. Um, but people still want to hear the real shit. Like, the reason why your song became so popular was because you could really see it's just a guy with a guitar, like, standing

• 57:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:27Joe Rogan?

  You know, grass behind him and shit, and a dog in the background.

• 57:30Speaker 01

  There's a, there's a thousand more people that are way better than me that are in that same space and I think, I think my dream of this long-term is to figure out how to like, like, how do you get all those people into the limelight? Like,

• 57:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 57:43Speaker 01

  Like, what I've been working on since, I guess, you know, the one important thing to to drill home to people too, as a follow-up since the last time we were here, it goes back to that first conversation we had, but you know, you remember I was arguing that I really wanted to put all the money from Richmond into a nonprofit and not ever even touch it because I was just, I didn't want all that. I felt like it wasn't my money. I felt like all those people went out of the way and supported me and like blew all these other huge songs off the chart and I just I wanted to, so, and then you said, "Well, no, don't do that because nonprofits are sketchy and people are corrupt and like, just keep the money yourself and then figure out how to do good with it." And that was the biggest thing I walked away from that first conversation we had and so

• 58:22Speaker 01

  you know, now it's like, that's the one thing I do want people to know too though is like that Richmond money and everything, it's, um It's went to good, it's went to do a lot of, and what I think will be in the long run, a lot of important things. I've been buying, most of it's went towards buying land and stuff, but I've got this whole kind of crazy thing. I'm like a, just a way for people to unscrew their minds, um, to get reconnected into nature and, um.

• 58:48Joe Rogan?

  You gonna be a cult leader?

• 58:50Speaker 01

  I was thinking about it, yeah. Yeah, I was thinking about, I might, I might try to get with Vermin Supreme. He's got this cool idea about everybody having a free pony and stuff, and I think that would work out.

• 59:01Speaker 01

  You ever seen him, Vermin?

• 59:03Joe Rogan?

  No, who's that guy?

• 59:04Speaker 01

  Vermin Supreme?

• 59:05Joe Rogan?

  Do you know who he is?

• 59:05Speaker 01

  He runs for president, I think he's from, uh, Connecticut, maybe? He runs for president every time. He wears, he has a big boot on his head.

• 59:13Joe Rogan?

  What?

• 59:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:14Joe Rogan?

  How do I not know this guy?

• 59:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, he's hilarious. There's a, if you go in. There's a video of him from that New Hampshire, there's a video of him from that New Hampshire primary.

• 59:24Joe Rogan?

  How do I not know about this guy? Who has a boot on his head?

• 59:29Speaker 01

  He, his, yeah, he says he'll take, he's gonna, he's gonna take everyone's guns away, but he'll give you ones that are better.

• 59:35Joe Rogan?

  Says he runs on gingivitis and zombie power.

• 59:37Speaker 01

  He, uh, yeah, he has a mandatory tooth brushing policy and he'll, he'll say things like, "Well, no, you know, it doesn't have anything to do with the tooth brushing control camps and the, the dental hygiene authoritarian center," or I don't know, he just.

• 59:52Joe Rogan?

  Give me some video of this cat. Oh my God, I gotta hear him talking.

• 59:56Speaker 01

  The best one of him is from that New, is from that Connecticut, um, that one, like where he's wearing the yellow jacket, wherever that video is, that's a, there you go.

• 1:00:08Speaker 03

  Thank you. Gingivitis has been eroding the gum line of this great nation long enough and must be stopped. For too long, this country has been suffering a great moral and oral decay.

• 1:00:20Joe Rogan?

  This guy's got a duck boot on his head.

• 1:00:23Speaker 03

  A country's future depends on its ability to bite back. We can no longer be a nation indentured. Our very salivation is at stake. Together, we must brace ourselves. As we cross over to the bridge work, into the 23rd century, let us bite the bullet and together, make America a sea of shining smiles from sea to shiny sea. Now friends, some people will tell you that this mandatory tooth brushing law is about the secret dental police kicking down your door at 3 a.m. to make sure you've brushed. Friends, it is not. Some will mention the dental reeducation centers, or the preventive detention facilities.

• 1:01:08Speaker 03

  It's about none of these things. It's not about the government-issued toothpaste containing an addictive yet harmless substance. No, friends, it is not even about DNA gene splicing to create a race of winged monkeys to act as tooth fairies. Friends, what this mandatory tooth brushing law is really about is strong teeth for strong America. My name is Vermin.

• 1:01:31Joe Rogan?

  What does this guy do for a living? He looks like an open mic'er that you would find at the Comedy Store.

• 1:01:36Speaker 01

  He looks like somebody that would be on like a Kill Tony, but he's, he runs every time and just, he just tries to make, like at the, at the very end of this, he, whoever the guy is beside him running, he's like, sprinkles dust all over him and says he's gonna make him gay and so, I don't know, he just, he just makes, he's just in there making a mockery of it, I guess, you know, but...

• 1:01:55Joe Rogan?

  That's funny.

• 1:01:56Speaker 01

  But yeah, that's who, I have to team up with him for my, for my cult or whatever, my tooth brushing cult.

• 1:02:01Joe Rogan?

  A hundred percent, you need him on board. He needs to be the toothbrush guy. If you're gonna have a cult, you can't have stinky breath.

• 1:02:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:09Joe Rogan?

  Gotta keep it together.

• 1:02:10Speaker 01

  But yeah, that's my, yeah, maybe it's like a cult or something, I don't know.

• 1:02:12Joe Rogan?

  Helping other musicians that have talent, like giving them a vehicle, that's huge, man. Like, cause a lot, there's a lot of people that just don't know how to get started. And sometimes, the thing that makes you a brilliant musician, or even a brilliant comic... Makes you bad at promoting because you're not thinking about yourself. You're like really locked into the work. You're really locked into your thing. And it takes someone who's really thinking about themselves a lot and promoting themselves. It's a totally different mindset to be like the social media guy. Like to be like really into like social media videos and really into like promoting your gigs.

• 1:02:54Joe Rogan?

  You know, so like a lot of guys fall by the wayside because they just never put their stuff out there. Like there's some brilliant comics like, I don't want to, I don't want to make a special. Like you should put this out, man. This is great stuff and but they're, they just want to kill. They just want to go up. Their, their thing every night is get on that stage and do the thing right and then rewrite it. I don't know, I mean, go back and.

• 1:03:13Speaker 01

  It's also the attention and stuff of it.

• 1:03:15Joe Rogan?

  Uh huh.

• 1:03:15Speaker 01

  It's the, it's the not, yeah, I mean, it's kind of what I, I kind of laughed when all this happening. It was scorned with the scornful song. I was, I remember I called Draven like right after everything went up and everything was starting to move. And I was like, oh, what have like, what have we done? You know, like, here we go. Here comes the, the New York Post is going to come showing up again at my grand, you know, my grandparents' house next week again or whatever. And it's just like, but I think it's also just, yeah, people just maybe don't want the attention. There's a lot of really funny, genuine people that do comedy, but, and, and they can do, they can get up there and have enough attention on them to do the comedy. But they don't want to be like, hey, look at me. I mean, I fight that constantly, even like that little video where we were going in the plane yesterday and I said, plane by day, Joe Rogan.

• 1:03:59Speaker 01

  You know, like, I don't, even just making little videos like that, I feel way out of place. Like, I don't want, I don't need, I don't want people to think like I'm saying, hey, look at me, you know? I mean, that's why I try to go through these periods where I just don't post or upload.

• 1:04:11Joe Rogan?

  At least you were in a regular airport.

• 1:04:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, Southwest.

• 1:04:15Joe Rogan?

  The worst is when people are doing those things in front of a private jet. I'm like, okay, we get it. You're rich. You know, if people try to take photos of me in front of a jet, I'm like, uh uh. I'm not, I'm so not into this. I'm not. I don't like the attention. I don't want it. I don't need it. It's, which is weird because I got a lot of it. And I think it's probably why I have a lot of it. It's because I'm not looking for it.

• 1:04:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, but you're also able to, you're channeling it out through all these other, I mean, think about all the things that you've influenced and been a part of and done, even just through this podcast and all the conversations had and the information shared. Like, it's not like you're just posting a bunch of pictures with your shirt off, like, hey, look at me. Like, you're using it. I mean, I, I don't know. I, I almost would say it's, I don't know that it's a coincidence that you got put in this spot for a lot of reasons. I mean, there's a lot, you probably don't even look at it that way, but there's a lot of important things that come out of this. And all the other podcasts you've inspired that have done, I mean, gosh, dude, it's a, there's no way to even calculate what you've, if you, if you had never been born, there's no way to calculate how different things would be now.

• 1:05:12Joe Rogan?

  Well.

• 1:05:12Speaker 01

  That's important to think about, though, you know, like, it's.

• 1:05:15Joe Rogan?

  Sort of, but sort of, but from my perspective, I was just one piece in this thing that happened.

• 1:05:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:21Joe Rogan?

  And, you know, that's why I always have my friend Adam Curry on, who's the original. He's the pod father. Without him, there would be none of this. He figured out a way to do this. And, you know, and then also Anthony Kumia from Opie and Anthony and Tom Green. Those are, those are my number one influences. And then Adam Corolla already had a podcast when I started. I was like, oh, Adam went from radio to the internet. Maybe I could do that. I remember going to his place and, oh, that's pretty cool. It's back when we were doing it on a little laptop. I'm like, wow, Adam has like a real studio. He's got employees and shit. And then, you know, we just kept doing it. Just kept doing it, you know, and then eventually it was webcams. Okay, now it's not just the laptop cameras, it's actual webcams. Okay, now maybe we should get like real cameras.

• 1:06:07Joe Rogan?

  Okay, let's get real cameras. And then like, maybe we should get a fucking studio. So we tried it at the Ice House for a little bit. Like, maybe I should get another place. Then we got another place. I'm like, I think I need a warehouse. And then like, I think I need armed security.

• 1:06:19Joe Rogan?

  I think any fucking special ops guys surround me all the time. And then it just kept going, man. I remember the moment, and I've talked about this before, but I didn't understand what was happening until one day I was on stage in Chicago. And I, I think this is 2012. So, I think, I think it was around then. So the podcast was only three years old. And I didn't realize how many people watched it or listened. A lot of it was listening at the time. Because I wasn't, I don't look at the numbers. I just kinda, I feel like, well, that's bad for you. You know, reading the comments, looking at the numbers. I just like, do what you do. That's why I do it exactly the same way. I have a bunch of people on there no one's ever heard of. You know, and then a few Bono's and stuff, you know, every now and then I'll have Russell Crowe on, something crazy.

• 1:07:04Joe Rogan?

  Whoa, that guy's here. Dennis Quaid's here. This is nuts.

• 1:07:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, your Mel Gibson one was good.

• 1:07:08Joe Rogan?

  He's the best. But, but I was on stage in Chicago and I was telling the story about the podcast. I go, how many guys listen to the podcast? And he went, yeah. It was like 3,700 people in this place. And they were all screaming. I went, whoa.

• 1:07:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:23Joe Rogan?

  That's when I realized, like, at that moment, I was like, holy shit, how big is this thing gonna get? And this is another funny thing. When I went over to Spotify, I was trying to get 10% less famous. That was my goal. My goal was to fade away. My goal was like, if somebody has to pay me and you have to go to this app to get it, all the people that are getting it, the other apps will probably stop listening.

• 1:07:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:45Joe Rogan?

  Like, this would be great. I'll get all the money and I'll just fucking drift into this place where it's only like the hardcore fans that make the trek over to Spotify. And then this fucking COVID thing happened. Remember in the beginning of the podcast, we lost 50% of our views and Jamie was in a hot panic.

• 1:08:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's exactly what I meant earlier about not putting a lot of songs out. There's like a, there's some cool place where you can be where you're, where you have your real fans and you're having fun, but you're not into all the sensationalism, all the crap, you know, like.

• 1:08:17Joe Rogan?

  You can avoid all that. You're a real guy. You're a real dude. And I think one of the ways that the world has prepared you for this is that you've lived a normal life for a long time, you know. Normal life with no live performances, no notoriety, no fame, no nothing. You developed like a re- like when people wanna hear working man songs. You fucking know Bruce Springsteen isn't a working man. Do you know what I'm saying?

• 1:08:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:43Joe Rogan?

  Like he probably was never really a working man. He was never working on the docks. You know what I mean? He was never really a guy grinding it out. He, he became famous pretty fucking young, you know? They, Bruce Springsteen and the East Street Band, they got hot early. Like, they're great. Don't get me wrong. I mean, especially this early, born to run, fuck. He's got some jams, dude. He's got some great songs. You know, Brilliant Disguise, oh, fucking love that song. But you're a real working man. Like, you were a real working man when you made Richmond, North of Richmond. Like, that is real. And you can't fake that. And people want that. They want a fucking trucker hat, they want ripped jeans.

• 1:09:26Joe Rogan?

  They don't want like ripped jeans that are ripped from work, you know what I mean? They don't like real oil stains on your knees because you're fixing your own car. You know, like, that's what people want in this world. They want authenticity. And it's possible to maintain authenticity regardless of how big you get. It is possible. And I think you can do it. I think you can do it because you got here later in life. You got here and lived a real life. And then you, you made it into magical fantasy land where we all live.

• 1:09:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, the thing that I've gotten the most from you, like I say, I don't look at my streaming numbers or anything either. That's what I mean, like, when I finally did go back and look at Spotify, like I, after a year, a year and a half later, it was just like, oh my god, like, I'm, this is still the thing, you know? But, um, so I agree with you there. I don't look at the numbers. I do, I do catch myself reading a lot of the comments, but only because a lot of them are important. And they, I think some of the stories in them are important for me to, I don't, I don't wanna completely isolate myself from that. And like I said, I also really like some of the negative ones too, I think. And the negative ones are a lot less now than they used to be. It was just really early on, people didn't understand how everything happened. And I really didn't understand it either. That's why it's like, whatever, you know, but.

• 1:10:34Speaker 01

  Moving forward now, yeah, I've got a good like core team of people. I've got Draven from Radio WV. I've got two or three people on staff. I don't have a management company or a publicist.

• 1:10:44Joe Rogan?

  Perfect. That's the key.

• 1:10:46Speaker 01

  I'm keeping it real, real low. Well, I mean, it amazed me when I came here for the first time and saw the staff you have. And then like meeting Lex, you know, Lex does all of it. He even turns his own cameras on and stuff. There's only Lex in the whole place. It's like, gosh, I don't need all these. It's like a lot of those positions and jobs and services that musicians use. I think they don't realize that they don't even need. They just are like, oh, that's how it is in music. That's what I want to change. I want to. Yeah, I don't know exactly.

• 1:11:13Joe Rogan?

  It eliminates the executive influence. It eliminates the corporate mindset. It eliminates that. Because there's always going to be a person that wants you to make a decision that's better for you financially. Whereas like your instincts are guiding you towards this artistic decision.

• 1:11:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:26Joe Rogan?

  And anytime those people get in the mix, they fuck everything up.

• 1:11:29Speaker 01

  I'll give you a great example. It's like the only, it's the only like call out on here that's negative that I'll say at all is that, um. Just to show like how stuck in the mud the industry is and how, how much I think it's going to change in the near future is. Leading up to this scornful release, me and Draven had went back and found about 30 or 40 people who just. Without us even knowing who they were, made the Richmond reaction videos and they were a big part of, of the push of it, especially long term, you know, like. People on TikTok and stuff that had made these videos. And so I, I don't have, I own a hundred percent of my publishing, you know, all the music's mine. Thankfully I have my own label technically that collects the money, but you have to use a publishing administration deal in order to collect money like overseas.

• 1:12:14Speaker 01

  I don't know if you're familiar.

• 1:12:15Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 1:12:16Speaker 01

  If it's the same in comedy, but like, yeah, most any musician, whether you're independent or you're with somebody, you have to have some kind of pub admin. And it's basically somebody that goes and helps you collect publishing money from overseas, basically mostly from overseas is the way I understand. Like all these obscure places that money exists. So Warner Chappell does it for me for 9%, right? So they go collect all the stuff, they keep 9% of it. They're the same to me as if I had a commercial landscaping company managing a property for me. So all I asked them to do was, "Hey Warner Chappell, this six-foot square of grass where all these reaction videos exist, just please whitelist these people so they don't get copyrighted. I want them to actually make the money they make on the scornful reaction videos, you know? Like, I don't, I don't feel right if they're gonna go and make a scornful woman reaction video

• 1:13:01Speaker 01

  or play drums over it or whatever. I don't want to take 50% of what, you know what I mean? Just don't copy, just whitelist them. And it should have been, "Okay, great, good idea," you know? Instead, they just said, "We can't do that, but it's for your protection." So...

• 1:13:16Joe Rogan?

  Because they wanted the money.

• 1:13:17Speaker 01

  So...

• 1:13:17Joe Rogan?

  Did they get a percentage? Or are they on a, how do they, how do they get paid?

• 1:13:20Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, they get, they, they take 9% off of what I get.

• 1:13:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they don't want...

• 1:13:24Speaker 01

  But I tried to explain to them, "Well, no, like, in the business sense," I, I even counter-argued them and I was like, "Well, let's think about it in the business sense. This little bit of money, right, that you're not gonna collect off these reaction videos will generate who knows how much traffic to the music, which is worth the money you really want. And it shouldn't matter anyway, it's not their, it's not their shit to decide on, it's mine. They're just, it's, it's the same thing as if I hired a guy to cut the grass at my commercial property and said, "Don't cut the six-foot square." And they're like, "No, we're cutting it, we're cutting all the grass and it's for your..." So I had to get my attorney involved and spend like four grand. And they whitelisted them for 30 days. And so I'm like, "Okay, like, that's why, that's why all of you industry people are like so..." You know, it's like, that's why this is happening, that's why it's like,

• 1:14:08Speaker 01

  I don't know, just, they don't care at all about the little guy or the, the people who are like doing all the work, they just, I just picture all these like stinky librarian-type old people sitting around a table like, "Brrr, brrr, brrr." And you know, they can make all this money and make all these horrible decisions and pour all these millions of dollars into songs that don't work and it doesn't matter, because it's just like, it, it's not, they, they don't care, they're getting their big salary and...

• 1:14:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:31Speaker 01

  So, uh, so yeah, it's just even, even in the, even in the most miniscule relationships I've had in Nashville, I get resistance and pushback and like, it's on, I don't know, like, why wouldn't they want me to whitelist those thirty people? It's just a little stupid stuff like that, that I've constantly dealt with. So I've just decided now, like, I don't need, I just don't want to do anything in the music, like, I don't even need to be in the music business, like, in that sense, you know? I'm just, I write my songs, I record them, I go do my shows and have fun, but I don't even need to follow any of the model of what, of what like a traditional musician, artist, person would have done.

• 1:15:03Joe Rogan?

  You definitely don't need to find actually, you don't need to do it that way. It's not necessary. And you, you have the right mindset, is that all those reaction videos would just get more people to listen to your music. It's, that's fact.

• 1:15:14Speaker 01

  But those are real, those people were like real fans who went and did it not because they were trying to get traffic or money or whatever. They just like liked it and wanted to push it. And so the least I can do is not take fifty percent of their stuff and like it just, but isn't that crazy that it's like there's, nobody's ever done that, I guess, like before. They were just acting like that was just the craziest thing in the world. So I ended up releasing this scornful song through a company called SoundOn, which is like the music distribution side of TikTok, which seems like something I would never want to do, but they give me the flexibility to go and like, and do all the, they don't care because they're not music industry people. They're just social media people.

• 1:15:56Speaker 01

  So I uploaded it through them, basically. So I'm still, I own all a hundred percent of the rights. It's all my stuff. I don't have any deals or records or labels or anything, but they push it to the streaming services for me and they do all the stuff. So that way I'm not even having to use a music company to push my music. I can kind of just like not even be there at all, you know? Like not even be in Nashville at all. That's the goal is just to get, and so now that I've got data from, you know, since Richmond, basically, and have learned a lot, I, my goal long-term is, I want, I'm gonna always put new music out and write stuff and, you know, but it's gonna come in spurts and there'll be times where people won't see a lot of me, but I'm gonna be in the background with other people, like, I want to help, I want to find these people on TikTok that have like a hundred followers, but I know that they've got what it takes

• 1:16:40Speaker 01

  and get with like Draven and some of these other people I've met and like help them write some really good songs and record them and put them out and push them and just like, I would love to plant like ten or fifteen people into music, like, give them everything I can give them to, to push them forward and make like, that way it doesn't feel like I'm, I'm the guy in the spotlight trying to like, I feel like I'm just in a, I feel like I'm like the most. I don't know, these companies have got like all these employees and all this money and all this backing and it's literally like four or five of us taking them, it just, I don't know. To me, I just think I, I think there's strength in numbers if I could help more artists push forward and like help them break that cycle too, that it would just, it would be like a multiplication factor on this whole thing.

• 1:17:19Speaker 01

  That's kind of what, that's gonna be kind of my next thing I get into is, is helping produce music and doing festivals and like, starting a label basically, kind of, sort of.

• 1:17:30Joe Rogan?

  That's fucking awesome.

• 1:17:31Speaker 01

  But a non predatory one, like even, even when Draven puts somebody on Radio WV, if they get 30,000 views, there's already people trying to sign them. Like they just want control of every new thing that's, you know.

• 1:17:42Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's what they were trying to do to you, right off the bat.

• 1:17:45Speaker 01

  Oh, and it felt terrifying too to not do it. It just felt like I was just, it felt like I was just, everything, it was, everything in me felt wrong doing it, you know? But I just decided that I didn't care about it and that it, I just, you know, I, I remember being very adamant at the beginning that every decision moving forward was based off the fact that I wasn't scared to go back to my old job if I had to. Cause I'd rather go back to my old job and be me than go to Republic, but just be Republic's little bitch, you know? And have to do everything they want and say everything, like.

• 1:18:13Joe Rogan?

  Also seeing where all your profits go and realizing that you got hoodwinked into these deals. Cause these deals, when they give you a big chunk of money, you gotta pay that money back. That's all just in advance.

• 1:18:23Speaker 01

  If I had went with a label, I would have been a lot bigger though, cause they would have made me push 30 songs out a year and they would have put all this marketing money into, and they would have kind of inflated me into this big fake, like every other country superstar. And so it feels a lot better just kind of being a little, little scaled back, a little smaller, but yeah, collecting a hundred percent of my money. And then also just knowing that I don't have a boss anymore, other than, you know, other than the man upstairs, like I don't. Gosh dude, I mean like, imagine how, you know, I've heard stories from bands and stuff now that have told me that they've went and had to record music like under a label contract and really didn't like the way the album turned out, but still had to release it anyway. Like, oh my gosh, that would just make me, to have to put music out that I didn't think was good.

• 1:19:06Joe Rogan?

  And then they're gonna promote it, and then they're gonna get behind it, yeah. You don't want other people, especially financial people, to ever be involved in your art. Ever. Even if they're good people, like, "No, we can work out a beneficial deal for both people." No. No, it's not gonna be beneficial for you. It's gonna influence you. And it's gonna turn you in one way or another that's not the way you would've originally gone on your own.

• 1:19:29Speaker 01

  And the reason there's so much money in music is because music's such a big part of us as human beings. And it's like, it's so funny, the first thing they do when they sign somebody is like try to rip their identity away. And it's like, they, it's like the labels don't understand that it's the identity of the person that put them in the position they're in in the first place. It's like you said, the relatability of it, you know?

• 1:19:47Joe Rogan?

  Well, there's also, people have this instinct to try to influence people. So it's one of the things that executives do in the beginning when someone's just starting, they go, "You know what you should do? You should get a crew cut. I think you'd look great with a crew cut." And then like, "The crew cut was my idea." You know, something about Oliver's crew cut, everybody loves that crew cut. Yeah, it's just like, he doesn't give a fuck about his hair. That was my idea. You know, there's a little of that, cuz like, people are easily influenced, cuz like, in the beginning, you're not sure, like, "I can't even believe I got signed. Like, am I gonna be a star? These people all here for me?" You know, and they'll fucking get in there.

• 1:20:20Speaker 01

  That's happened to me. I mean, I brought, um, around February or so, I hired this management company that stayed, they were my management company for three weeks, so that kinda tells you how well things worked. But he was super nice, like, loved everything I was doing, and then as soon as I got, as soon as I started with him, he was telling other people that I know, like, "Yeah, we gotta figure out how to make him cool." And he needs to put like forty or fifty songs out this year, and they were wanting me to make this social media post, like, complimenting Beyonce's country album because he thought it was gonna get me in a position, like, it's exactly what you're saying. It's just like, and I just told him, I was like, "Dude, I, if I wanted to just be, if I just wanted to be somebody's little like, somebody's little puppet, I would, there's a, I would've taken a lot more money for it. Like, you know, I'm independent, so I don't have to do that. It's like...

• 1:21:04Speaker 01

  But that's like, and it's like, the thing is, is I don't need to be cool. It's okay that I'm kinda lame and I just, but I'm just me and you know, it is what it is. It's like, I don't have to, I don't have to try to get on the internet and pretend to be cool.

• 1:21:15Joe Rogan?

  Dude, you're cool, man. Stop this. You're cool. You're not lame. You're not lame at all. What the fuck are you talking about? You're a cool guy. You make great music and you're fun to hang out with. How are you, how are you lame? Cause you're normal. Guess what? Everybody's normal. It's a ruse. Beyonce's normal too. She takes horrible shits, I'm sure. We all do. We all do. It's, they're humans, human beings, man. This illusion of celebrity. It's complete total nonsense.

• 1:21:41Speaker 01

  Dude, that's the best thing.

• 1:21:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, everybody takes horrible shit. You want a brain gummy? Want some brain gummies?

• 1:21:47Speaker 01

  I was hoping you had some of the Alex Jones ones.

• 1:21:49Joe Rogan?

  Well, these are the Onnit ones. They're new. They're Alpha Brain Gummies. We just got them.

• 1:21:54Speaker 01

  How is Alex doing these?

• 1:21:55Joe Rogan?

  He's great. He lost a lot of weight, man.

• 1:21:56Speaker 01

  I saw he's getting like, yeah, he's ready for the next big-

• 1:21:59Joe Rogan?

  My friend Sean Johnson's training him.

• 1:22:01Speaker 01

  Oh, really?

• 1:22:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he gets up every morning, he works out for fucking hours. He's lost, I think he's lost 70 pounds at this point. He looks fantastic, man. He looks fantastic. He looks like he's 20 years younger. People think, this is really funny, cause you know, his whole business is conspiracy theorists. It's a conspiracy that Alex has been replaced.

• 1:22:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:22:20Joe Rogan?

  Listen, folks, that's real Alex. I've watched every step of the way and my friend trains him. So I can tell you for a fact, that is the real Alex Jones. Quit drinking, quit fucking around, quit eating bad food. He's eating healthy food now. He works out every day. It's like no Ozempic, no bullshit, no shortcuts. He did it the right way. He looks great.

• 1:22:39Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, he's um, he's definitely, he's definitely one of my bucket list people to meet at some point.

• 1:22:45Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I can introduce you to Alex?

• 1:22:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:47Joe Rogan?

  We can make that happen for sure. 100%.

• 1:22:49Speaker 01

  Maybe just, I thought that'd just be hilarious.

• 1:22:51Joe Rogan?

  That's done. Done, done.

• 1:22:53Speaker 01

  Nice.

• 1:22:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, we'll, we'll hook that up.

• 1:22:56Joe Rogan?

  Be prepared.

• 1:22:57Speaker 01

  That'd be an interesting conversation, yeah.

• 1:22:59Joe Rogan?

  Cause off air, he's just like he is on air. That's Alex Jones. He's ready to go.

• 1:23:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:03Joe Rogan?

  Billion fucking, what Bill Gates doing right now? And then you're like, corny, you're like, what? How does he get in the way with that? Well, basically, they paid off all the mass media. If you see, there's a $350 million donation that he gave to all the media companies. Like, what? 350? Is that real? And then Jamie will look it up, like, holy fuck, it's real.

• 1:23:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know. He's, he's right a lot of the time.

• 1:23:21Joe Rogan?

  He's right most of the time, except that one big one. But other than that.

• 1:23:25Speaker 01

  But you'll get that with, like, they say, like, the kids say, you get that with those big jobs, you know?

• 1:23:29Joe Rogan?

  You know what also I think happens, and this is, I think this is 100% real, is that there are a bunch of fake stories that get propagated to people that are really invested in conspiracy theories, hoping that those people promote those fake conspiracy theories and then get outed as being wrong.

• 1:23:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:46Joe Rogan?

  You know, I think you can get caught up in that. And then I also think if you're real quick to not check, and I'm guilty of that all the time, to see if something's legit, you know, that's one of the vital roles that Jamie plays. Like, Jamie's like, maybe that's not real. Like, what? Why are you fucking this up, Jamie? Like, we want it to be real, right? You want a nice juicy conspiracy to be real. Um, and then also, you know, at the time of the Sandy Hook stuff, he was drinking, like, a lot. And I think he was genuinely overwhelmed by all the real stuff that he was finding. You know, when he's getting into the Iraq war and all these different things, it's like, he was just overwhelmed, man. I think he had a psychotic break, you know, and he'll, he'll be the first to say that, too.

• 1:24:30Joe Rogan?

  It's like, when you're, your whole business is uncovering, uncovering insane conspiracies, that everybody thinks you're out of your fucking mind. And then 20 years later, like, holy shit, he was right about every step of the way. He was telling me about central bank, digital currency, connected to a social credit score system, that it's game over, because they'll lock you in, just like they've done with China. And he was just, like, saying this, like, a decade plus ago. And I was like, what? Huh?

• 1:24:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's cra- like, um, the guy before him, that I think, I think the two of them actually didn't get along. But I always, if I ever, when, if I ever do meet Alex, I was gonna ask him about that, is Bill Cooper. But he was a guy who kinda came before Alex. That was in the-

• 1:25:10Joe Rogan?

  He's behold a pair of horses, right?

• 1:25:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:13Speaker 01

  But yeah, even back then, it just, most of it seemed like total madness back then, and now it's like- But it's just sort of like, I laugh about when I was a kid, everyone thought that Michael Jackson was the big, like sexually perverted guy, and who knows with Mike, but you know, now I look at Michael as like this just kid that was put in this terrible position from a child up, and now all these other musicians that you wouldn't even think are the sex predators are. It's just kinda like, you just don't really know much of anything anyway, but yeah, like with that.

• 1:25:40Joe Rogan?

  With the Michael Jackson thing too, is his doctor said that he was chemically castrated when he was young to maintain his voice. And I believe him. Cause that totally makes sense. You look at his frame, his really thin frame, where it doesn't look like he has any testosterone. Look at all his brothers, his brothers are like thick, like manly looking men.

• 1:26:02Speaker 01

  What does chemically castrated mean exactly?

• 1:26:05Joe Rogan?

  Well, the crazy thing, it's hormone blockers. It's exactly what they're doing to trans kids now.

• 1:26:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:26:10Joe Rogan?

  It's the same thing.

• 1:26:11Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:26:12Joe Rogan?

  And that's why Michael Jackson had that voice. It's very similar to a castrata's voice. Do you know what a castrata is? So these kids in opera were castrated when they were young, and there's only one available recording, I think. It's just, it's like one guy, right? Have you ever heard it? You should hear this.

• 1:26:30Speaker 01

  A long time ago, yeah, I'd like to hear it.

• 1:26:32Joe Rogan?

  Let's listen to some of it, cause it's fucking creepy.

• 1:26:35Speaker 01

  I just have heard stories about like, about that being the thing, that they would keep their voice up high.

• 1:26:39Joe Rogan?

  They would castrate children so that they never had testosterone, so that their body never really developed, and then they would have them maintain that young voice, that high pitch that's only possible if you don't develop the deepness that comes with. That's why when trans men, when women start taking testosterone, their voice starts getting deeper. Things start getting weird. They started getting very Dwayne Johnson. You know, it's like, that's testosterone. That's the effect that it has on your voice. And um, these um, poor fucks.

• 1:27:15Joe Rogan?

  Alessandro Mareschi.

• 1:27:21Speaker 01

  I don't wanna, I'm not gonna.

• 1:27:23Joe Rogan?

  Don't make fun of him. It's a beautiful woman.

• 1:27:42Speaker 01

  This is a grown man, right?

• 1:27:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's a grown man.

• 1:27:55Speaker 01

  That'll be like sampled in the next Kanye song or something now?

• 1:27:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, we can leave it there. We don't have to play anymore of it. It's so haunting. It's so haunting. First of all, what fucking psycho figured out that if you cut off little boys' balls, you could make them sing like that forever? Like, what fucking psycho was the first person to do that?

• 1:28:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:28:13Joe Rogan?

  Because these are little kids they're doing it to. They're only like six-year-olds.

• 1:28:16Speaker 01

  Was this in the church? Was this like a church thing or a...?

• 1:28:19Joe Rogan?

  I do not know. It was an opera thing. But I know that-

• 1:28:21Speaker 01

  Opera thing.

• 1:28:22Joe Rogan?

  Castrating men, you know, eunuchs was a common thing when people were working in the homes of royals. They'd castrate them. There's one of the most horrific stories was Nero. Nero, um, beat his wife to death. And then took a slave boy who looked like his wife and castrated him. And changed his name to his wife and presented him as his wife.

• 1:28:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. People in power have always been horrible.

• 1:28:52Speaker 01

  Hmm, yeah.

• 1:28:53Joe Rogan?

  People, when they get unchecked power, have always been horrible. That's why, directionally, like this whole no kings protest that's supposed to go down on Saturday, directionally, it's correct. Like, you don't want kings, you don't want oligarchs, but who's funding it? Well, it turns out it's funded by an oligarch. It's funded by a lady worth twenty billion dollars, who is the heiress to Walmart, who-

• 1:29:15Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:29:16Joe Rogan?

  Walmart, a company that employs cheap labor and sells a lot of stuff from China that would be affected by tariffs.

• 1:29:23Joe Rogan?

  You know?

• 1:29:23Speaker 01

  It's like that with all of them, though. It's like-

• 1:29:25Joe Rogan?

  It's like that with everything, man. Everything is like it presents as being this moral situation. Like, they're really looking out for you. They're really looking out for people. There's, they're never really looking out for people. There's always some primary profit motive that's causing any organized thing. All, it's never for the human race. It's nev- Unless the people are all on mushrooms. It's never for the human race. And until mushrooms get legalized, that's probably never gonna happen. And that's the real battle. The real battle is what gets legal first, AI or mushrooms? You know?

• 1:30:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's uh-

• 1:30:01Joe Rogan?

  Both of us will lead towards God. Both of them will lead towards God, but one with a completely different outcome.

• 1:30:07Speaker 01

  I've, it's gonna take me like four or five times listening to it to be able to talk about it. But the, I went back and listened to the, to the Maps of Meaning on Audible and it's one of Jordan's earlier works, you know? And he's talking about society and how it's structured and basically talks about like the motivations and the origins of why people always resort to evil, you know, like in this, I mean, we talk so much about the Holocaust, but not at all about all the other horrible tragedies that happened at the same time. But even like talking about with Russia, like just think about the Soviet Union and what happened there and how easily people were turned against. It's just, we, I, this little moment in time we're in is just so, we should just be so thankful for it. Even though it is mass chaos right now, like the fact that we can, the fact that people are allowed to speak freely and do things and have,

• 1:30:49Speaker 01

  have the influence and power they do is just nuts when you think about, you're right, I mean, is this, the, the same crazy people that we're arguing about today have always existed in different forms and with different names and faces.

• 1:31:00Joe Rogan?

  But we're better off today than anybody else in human history. And this is a struggle and it is a battle, but I think we can come out of this on the other side. We all realize that we're being played against each other and that's where it's important. You know, when you're paying people to protest, you're leaving pallets of bricks around and you're organizing the whole thing and you're shipping people in on buses and you're making sure that all the people show up at a certain amount of time and they're all compensated and you give them water and snacks like, we gotta realize what's going on here. This is not for you. When you light your city on fire and you burn cop cars, it's never good. It's not good for you, it's not good for the cause, they're not gonna change the laws. One thing that I heard, I heard from Trump today that I thought was very promising

• 1:31:40Joe Rogan?

  is that he wants to make an executive order where people that are here for a long time, that have been like working on farms, that are undocumented. That they won't be targeted and that they'll be exempt from all this stuff. This is my feeling. Like if you got here and you're you've integrated into our society. Yeah, maybe you shouldn't have snuck in, but you did it and you're not breaking any laws. You're a hardworking person. Those those people need a path to citizenship, man. Because if you don't, then they're just preyed they're just preyed upon by people that will take advantage of the fact that they're undocumented and not pay them what they're legally supposed to pay them and not give them benefits if they're legally supposed to have benefits and they can't say anything because they're worried that immigration is going to get called on them. So these people are

• 1:32:23Joe Rogan?

  in this constant state of anxiety and then they hear about the ICE raids like at Home Depot. Like what the fuck?

• 1:32:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, there was a there was a big ICE raid um at the at the Facebook data center job not far from my place where I used to have to go.

• 1:32:35Joe Rogan?

  What? Facebook data center ICE raid?

• 1:32:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, at the Facebook project. It's in um it's not far from me in Virginia. I think it's technically would be in it would be South Boston. I think it's technically in.

• 1:32:47Joe Rogan?

  ICE didn't bribe or Facebook didn't bribe ICE? If I was Facebook, I would have fucking bought ICE some new cars.

• 1:32:53Speaker 01

  There's a big job that um a big job site that I used to have to go on some that's in um the southern part of Virginia, like not far from North Carolina and I somebody was sending me pictures there from the other day, but they had a big ICE raid and there was dudes like running through the like people were just escaping the job, like running away from the job and stuff. It was nuts, but.

• 1:33:10Joe Rogan?

  Why? Why? Like gang members, yes. Criminals, yes. This, why? Why? Like, I think as crazy as it sounds, the only way to do this and look like you have a heart is evaluate people on a case by case basis. Like there's good people. There's good people.

• 1:33:29Speaker 01

  It's also so complicated because it goes back for so long and the idea the thing now is that there's two very polarizing opinions of what America even is or represents or what job it's supposed to serve to the world. So like you know, in some, yeah, sure, there like any for any country to exist, it has to have there has to be something there that identifies what it is as a country and you have and like there's like, yeah, like it just seems like without citizenship or without some definitive thing of who's a citizen or not. It's like then it's not even a country. It's like and and most every country has some like the idea of there being no immigration laws for a country means that it's no longer a country. But I also think it's like the the the opposite side of that, too, is like America's always.

• 1:34:10Speaker 01

  In theory, even though it's always been ran by these, there's always been these corrupt people involved in it. In theory, you know, America was suppo- was started as sort of this thing that was like, that can maybe be like,

• 1:34:23Speaker 01

  like a sanctuary that like, that like doesn't allow the, doesn't allow monarchies and dictators and horrible things, you know, like, as bad as America maybe has been in certain cases, like the fact that when, when Japan lost, they didn't just go and take it over and call it another part of America, like they went and tried to rebuild, like, in theory, America's supposed to be this vein that exists of, you know, it's, it's, it's originate, its origination is from people who wanted to get away from monarchies and dictators. And of course, like, it's so easy to pick on the founding fathers and all their faults and the crazy things they did, but it was centuries ago in a different culture and they probably were all maniacs. You'd have to be a maniac to, to go up against the world's biggest empire and take it on, you know, like-

• 1:35:07Joe Rogan?

  With a musket.

• 1:35:07Speaker 01

  With a fucking, yeah, like, you'd have to, you have to be crazy. And of course, they had personality flaws, but they were, the reality is, is that, here's the thing that sucks is like, and it goes both ways. There's a lot of things about people on the left that people on the right don't realize that they have in common. And it's the same way with this, like, I, I, it breaks my heart when people just totally trash the founding fathers, not because they were these morally, they took horrendous shits too, I'm sure. Probably not as bad as Beyonce, but pretty close. And you know, the fact like, of course, they were bad people. They were all bad. We're humans. We're flawed inherently. Even the best of us, even the ones who act like we're the best and the most, like, we're all screwed up. We all have our problems and our faults and stuff, but the fact that they were willing to like, go somewhere to another land with all these, with all this crazy stuff and then take on the, you know, the world's biggest empire at that time,

• 1:35:52Speaker 01

  just so they could be able to do what they, you know, religious freedom, it's like the, they didn't want religious, religious freedom because they were, not even necessarily because they wanted to go to church. I always thought it was like, it's so weird that they, they were fighting for religion, but it wasn't they were fighting for religion. They were fighting for the mandate of religion, for the, they were, they were tired of the church. And like, I know it's not considered the church anymore, but there is still a church that dominates us and tries to, to control us now. And that now, unfortunately, now the church is just sort of this weird thing, but it's the, it's a zebra mentality, you know, among politicians. It's like, it goes back to that, I think it's Jordan Peterson that talks about the zebras and how they'll do a study on zebras and they'll, it's in the Maps of Meaning book, I believe, and they'll mark one red to study it.

• 1:36:34Speaker 01

  And then the predators take that zebra down because the zebras stripes aren't camouflage to their surroundings, they're camouflage to each other, so they're not easily identifiable. And so four or five lions can't take one zebra down if they all look the same. And in politics, I believe that's what's happened, especially on the left, you know. I, uh, I had people in Nashville quit working with me because I'm, I talked about this when I was at the Ryman, but I, uh, we had this, this, uh, this dancing, um, this chick that plays the fiddle and she does like flat dancing and stuff named Hillary Klug, uh, who lives in Nashville and we had her come to the Ryman to do this show with us and, uh, it was on a last minute thing and I'm about to introduce her and I tell the crowd, I'm like, hey, you know, I said, I got Hillary about to come out and I was like, but it's not, don't worry,

• 1:37:18Speaker 01

  it's not that Hillary and just made a, just made a joke about it. Well, I just, somebody said something in the crowd that was, and I don't know, I just interact and I just say what comes to mind and I don't care, you know, I don't worry about all that stuff and what people might think. I just try to say what I feel, but I was like, you know, isn't it crazy that somebody like Hillary who not that long ago, I can remember vividly as a child or in a teenage years, like being completely against the idea of even having two people of the same gender be married. Like she was as against gay marriage as like any, any person on the far right is now, you know, and that was, that was in my childhood or early teen. And I said, and now the fact that now that it's okay for kids to become transgender and go through like what Michael did, that's to me is just, it just shows

• 1:38:00Speaker 01

  that it's all theatrics and that none of those people really have any real like opinions about any of this stuff. It's all about what'll sell, you know, like again.

• 1:38:06Joe Rogan?

  Did you say this at the Ryman?

• 1:38:07Speaker 01

  I said this at the Ryman and so I had my, um, I had my management company that I was using then drop me and a bunch of other people without even telling me. They just emailed my attorney and said they couldn't work with me anymore. They were that mad about that, um, which tells you how far off the deep end. But anyway, it's just.

• 1:38:24Joe Rogan?

  Well, everything you're saying is just a fact.

• 1:38:26Speaker 01

  But you're exactly, you're exactly right with all that. It's just, um, it's difficult to convey that to people because there's so many emotions involved, but at the end of the day, it's like. I don't see a whole lot of difference in people on the left and the right anymore. I think we're all just like, like you said, we all, we all are trying to just effectively accomplish the same thing, just in, in different ways. And it's really easy to get angry at somebody that's on the same level as you than somebody that you don't even know exists, which is like with these private equity companies and these people in the background that do all the, like, the enemy that, so, so what's happened is, is going back to the zebra thing, what I think has happened is like, especially in politics, the reason why Hillary Clinton can be against gay marriage and then for transgender

• 1:39:09Speaker 01

  kids in my, in a very short period of my lifetime, and, and a whole bunch of other politicians with her, is that they're all just constantly rearranging their stripes, so all the zebras look just alike, because as soon as one of them looks a little bit different, you know, like, um, like Tulsi Gabbard, or whatever, I don't know, name, there's plenty, there's plenty of people besides, that's just the first one that comes to mind, that's like, you know, trying to be a Democrat, and, and upholding most of what the Democratic Party would have wanted her to uphold up until very recently, but because she didn't rearrange her stripes, it's like, you're dead, but there's a whole bunch of more like her too, that, that aren't even in politics anymore, but, that's, that's the way I see it now, is it's like, all these people, and so like, even with Big Donny, you know, I wonder, like,

• 1:39:52Speaker 01

  yeah, I see, I just wonder even, I just don't trust, it's kind of my Alex Jones syndrome, but it's like, no matter how cool somebody seems like that, I think like, man, does, does him and Hillary really still chill, like, they're probably smoking a fat joint right now, this laugh, I don't know, like, you just don't really know, you don't really know, you're just, you have to see what you see, and you have to take it in, and just hope that you have, that somehow you have the discernment to know what's true or not, but you really just don't, I mean, even with me, man, so much crazy stuff that gets said and done, and, um, I just don't even, when things come out about me that aren't true, I just don't even reply or acknowledge them anymore, I just let them exist in their own little space and be part of it, and I've just decided that, again, we're just all on the, we're just in this crazy thing where all this stuff happens, and it's just, I

• 1:40:36Speaker 01

  don't know, you can't, you can't.

• 1:40:38Joe Rogan?

  The problem is so many people that don't do that, and they're, they're not aware of how much influence is being peddled on to them, how much, how much their mind and their opinion is being affected by this nonsense on social media, by bots and by all these different things. What you said about the zebras and the stripes is so fucking perfect. One of my favorite clips is Hillary Clinton, when she was running, um, I think it was 2012. It might have been, when did she fir- he first become president? 2008, right? Uh, Obama? Yeah. It might have been 2008. But she was running and she was more MAGA than MAGA. She was talking about the border and about people coming over here. If you want to stay, you get a stiff fine.

• 1:41:21Joe Rogan?

  And if you've done anything illegal, you get exported, no questions asked. And, listen to this. Give me this full volume from the beginning. Wait till you hear this, this is wild.

• 1:41:33Speaker 04

  So, I think we gotta have tough conditions. Tell people to come out of the shadows. If they've committed a crime, deport them. No questions asked, they're gone. If they...

• 1:41:46Speaker 04

  If they've been working and are law-abiding, we should say, here are the conditions for you staying. You have to pay a stiff fine because you came here illegally. You have to pay back taxes. And you have to try to learn English. And you have to wait in line.

• 1:42:00Speaker 01

  You have Trump, like...

• 1:42:02Joe Rogan?

  You have to wait in line, that's so MAGA. I mean, that's-

• 1:42:07Speaker 01

  But it just proves the point that none of that really means... They're sitting in the green room in the back before that speech and there's like some stuff written out and they're just like, oh, I gotta try to remember all this crap. Like, none of that meant anything. You know, like, none of that. I don't think she even believed when she said it back then, in other words.

• 1:42:21Joe Rogan?

  Well, she thought it was what the country wanted to hear. That's all it is. It's all focus group shit. It's all what the country wants to hear. And what the party agrees upon. What the zebras all agree on. When you just said that, that's it perfectly. And as it morphs, as it gets into trans kids, you gotta support trans people in the military. Whatever it is, they just all fucking hop in line. What flag am I putting in my Twitter bar today?

• 1:42:42Speaker 01

  And to go back, to go back to what you said at the beginning about those kids that are riding with the... And they don't really even know what they're riding. They got the mask on, but they're doing this and it's like- I guess what I mean is, is there's a bunch of human beings on earth, especially now, like in our, in this sort of like American culture and all the other sub-series of it, like in, you know, Europe and everywhere is so Americanized now, but there's all these people who are really angry. It's kind of like, it's the reason why, you know, there's so many of these videos where they interview like the Antifa dudes, and they don't really even know why they're, they're not able to talk, they're not really able to articulate why they're there, what they believe. They're just there because they want to, they're just there to riot, you know? Right. There's this like, general anger that I think has,

• 1:43:26Speaker 01

  that dwells in a lot of us towards the system that we realize is inefficient and ineffective and rigged. But it's just too complex, at least individually, and through the means of the internet for us to identify who our enemies really are. And so instead, it's like, let's just go do, like, let's just go, let's go catch, catch some shit on fire, because at least it feels like we're doing something, even though, but I think like, I think there's a lot more in common between the patriotic cosplaying type people who, who wanna, who talk all the time about like, you know, that, and the people who are like Antifa. I actually think that they're two of the same cloth. They just both, they both just don't really realize it. But I think, I think like,

• 1:44:07Speaker 01

  that there is this really amazing sort of rebellious spirit of the left that just needs to be reintegrated in a society with the right. And then it's like, then it becomes unstoppable. And it no longer becomes a left and a right thing. But I just don't think, like, I'll give you another great example, like, like, when I was younger, I'd go to these, some of these protests in DC and stuff, and I would always stay at George Washington University with these kids. And, we were all in our early twenties probably, and we're all very like, at that point, there wasn't any like real political identity to it. I don't think those people would have called themselves left back then.

• 1:44:44Speaker 01

  But you better believe most of them ended up going to all the Black Bloc and the Antifa and the Black Lives Matter and every other protest there was, just because they wanted to go protest. They just are like, you know, like, it's like, it's like, yeah, it's like, it's a thing of, of- Of like rebelling against the system.

• 1:45:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you're part of the machine.

• 1:45:02Speaker 01

  It doesn't really matter what part of the system it is, or if it really even makes any sense. You just know that that's, yeah, it's like, I think, I think, and that's what I mean, is through the means of the internet. I don't think we'll ever be able to organize all those people together in a way that's productive. But I do think in real life, we can. I do think, I do think through, I think music is, I think that's why I want to focus mostly on music. And like trying to influence in a way to where the rich don't control it and the rich don't choose what songs we listen to and what songs make it on the charts like we do. I think that's the first step. I think, actually think music is some, like, I guarantee you that if you looked, if there was some way to, I'm sure there's some report to be ran where you could see how people voted versus what kind of music people listen to. And I guarantee you, a lot of people who voted differently, listen to the same exact lyrics and resonate with them.

• 1:45:46Speaker 01

  Like, what is that, like, they're, that's all I mean, is this, we're just been, we, we've just been mass distracted and misled, is all.

• 1:45:53Joe Rogan?

  Well, also, when you get these kind of organized protests, they're all organized with this one thought in mind. Like, there, there, there's unlawful, you know, changes in policies that's shipping our community back to Mexico. And we gotta stop this. These are all, you know, oligarchs are involved and this is a dictatorship. And they feel like they're fighting against something bad. And if they're uninformed, and who the fuck who's 21 is informed? You know, most people who are young, especially if you're going to college, you're around a bunch of other like-minded people in an echo chamber. And you're all trying to like, get social credit by being the most woke and the most activist-y.

• 1:46:35Joe Rogan?

  And you're the person who's the most involved, and you're helping organize, and you feel like you get a sense of purpose. And then there's also the thing of being on the ground with a bunch of other people that are moving in a certain direction. That to me, it, I think it ignites a thing, I think there's things inside of us that get ignited. One of them is like, here's, the best way to describe is like fishing. You know, when you go fishing? I've seen people catch their first fish. When that fish gets on the line, they're You get excited. Everybody gets excited because it's this ancient thing inside of you that lets you know you're now successful, your family's going to eat. You caught a fish.

• 1:47:12Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:47:13Joe Rogan?

  And it just like sparks it inside of you. It does it with bow hunting, but very few people are gonna go bow hunting. But the other thing that does it with is war. And protests are like war. You're marching, you're all together. Who's opposing us? Fuck them! And everyone's all aggressive and they're all chanting

• 1:47:31Joe Rogan?

  Fuck ICE, fuck ICE, fuck ICE. And you think you're doing the right thing. You think you're doing the right thing. You know, and then you see shit like cops shooting rubber bullets at reporters. And you're like, what the fuck? These people are garbage. Like, how are you shooting a reporter?

• 1:47:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:47:45Joe Rogan?

  That's not what you're supposed to shoot with a rubber bullet.

• 1:47:47Speaker 01

  But I think the problem now is that it's so it's too complicated to be able to dissect it and correct it that like like with these ICE protests though. In other words, there's been such a heavily disputed and mismanaged protocol over immigration my entire life. So now, it's like, you can't now just go in and just try to like, that's what's gonna hap- people are gonna protest though and you just all of a sudden go in and try to just like clean house all at once. It's like, we've never even really established as a country what it what it is or because like, because most of the people we've listened to the last 20 years will say stuff like that and whatever year that was, 2008, and now say gosh, can you imagine if somebody said that now? That, they would be like a

• 1:48:29Speaker 01

  they would be a racist and taken off the internet for saying what Hillary said on there about having to speak English and stuff, so it's

• 1:48:35Joe Rogan?

  For sure. But there's a big difference between protests and organized protests where you're paying people and then you're leaving bricks around. This is a, it's like it's a bastardization. It's a, they've, they've taken over the thing. This, the virtue of this thing, like this part of the First Amendment, your right to express yourself. The right for the people to get together and say, hey, this is not cool. And they've distorted it with money, like everything else.

• 1:48:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:49:00Joe Rogan?

  And they've used it as a political tool.

• 1:49:01Speaker 01

  I would think maybe that that's happened a lot though, even in in the past with like civil rights and everything else. A lot of that was much more organized than it was made. Like, I didn't know until just a couple of years ago, like, I've, I've learned the story all through school and heard it a million times about Rosa Parks, but I didn't realize until a couple of years ago that she was part of some I don't know, I don't even know what she was part of, but she was part of some organization and it was like a planned thing. I just, I, I was always taught it like she just spontaneously did it. But I think, I think there's just, there's every, every like thing in history has this whole backstory to it that we don't really know much about.

• 1:49:38Joe Rogan?

  Most things have been manipulated if they can be manipulated. Once they realized they can manipulate people, they started and they probably started that a long time ago. I mean, we've talked about it a million times, so that's why Smedley Butler wrote War is a Racket in 1933. You know, Major General Smedley Butler, who was, they, they tried to get him to overthrow the fucking government with a coup and he wouldn't do it. And then he writes this book about how every single operation he was involved with. He thought they were doing this, but really they were just making it safe for bankers. They're really just overthrowing a government and installing a friendly one. It's like, it's been going on since they could. And back then it was way easier to pull off because there was no internet. We could pull up a Hillary Clinton video from more than a decade ago and go, look at her.

• 1:50:23Joe Rogan?

  She's a pretty MAGA. You can put a fucking red hat on that lady and she'd be standing on that stage right next to RFK Junior, you know?

• 1:50:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, and it's just, it's because there's such an information overload. Stuff like that will always be forgotten about too soon too for it to make a difference like.

• 1:50:40Joe Rogan?

  She could have been Trump's vice president back then.

• 1:50:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:50:44Joe Rogan?

  Like no bullshit. She would have been right, she would have been like Queen Mom of Trump land. There would be people with Hillary Clinton flags flying behind their pickup trucks with her with like two fists in the air with a MAGA hat on. They're not bullshitting.

• 1:50:58Speaker 01

  But I remember even back then like, well, you know, the one, that's what made me fall in love with comedy was Norm MacDonald and like his whole bit about the Clintons and stuff. And getting on The View and riling all them up and stuff, but even, you know, back then I remember they were trying to like, I guess he got kicked off of Saturday Night Live because of that, right? And all was it because of the Clinton specific, or it might have been because of.

• 1:51:18Joe Rogan?

  It was probably because he's too funny.

• 1:51:20Speaker 01

  There was something else.

• 1:51:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, but there's, I don't know.

• 1:51:26Joe Rogan?

  Norm was one of the funniest people of all time. And his Weekend Update, that thing that he would do was fucking fantastic. It was fantastic. He was the best ever at it. He was so good. And the jokes were so, he would go so out there. Back when you could, you know? And if that's what got him kicked off of Saturday Night Live, great. Makes him even more of a legend. Even more.

• 1:51:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think that's, I think that's what's important about, I don't, I'm not a fan of all the real crazy vulgar humor sometimes and stuff like I, I'm more of a norm type of comedy guy. Like, I like the more goofy stuff that's not like constantly talking about penises and stuff, but like, you know, or whatever, like whatever it is, sex and everything else, but I, it's really important that all that stuff does exist just because of the idea of, I think it's important that there's this place that exists here in Austin that freedom of speech will always be in. Even if, you know, it's like, it's such a critical thing, especially now more than ever. I think-

• 1:52:20Joe Rogan?

  It's critical for everybody, even if you don't agree with it. And that's what's so hard for people to recognize. When people don't have a voice and someone has a voice and that voice is different than their opinion, they want to shut, they want to shut it down. They want to silence it.

• 1:52:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:52:32Joe Rogan?

  And they want to elevate their voice. Nature. Just pure, natural, it's natural instincts that human beings have. And you gotta, you gotta resist that because you gotta realize you don't want that used on you, right? Well, then don't use it on other people.

• 1:52:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, everyone's guilty. Like, I went, when I was at the ARC where I get, where we spoke at that thing in London, there was a, a talk we went to, I think the next night, that was about freedom of speech. And I can't remember the, I can't remember who all was speaking there. It was some people that I should probably remember, but I, um, yeah, but they, uh, they were talking about, it was, it was, it was a group that was defending people in Europe that were like being, being arrested and stuff for things they had reposted online and all, which is really important, you know, like they're, they're arresting people for political things that they put online in Europe and like, not even giving them very obscure reasoning as to why, whatever, in some cases, they won't even tell them what they're arresting them for. And so like the cause of what these people are doing is very important, but the whole time they're just,

• 1:53:30Speaker 01

  they're referring to it as the woke mind virus, which is, yeah, sure, funny, put in a bit or whatever, but God, like, no, what it is, is it's like the government using- This one specific thing out of a list of things that they could as part of this moral high ground to arrest people for speaking out against, not because it has nothing to do with anything on the left or the right, it's the fact that the state would love for people to not be allowed to criticize anything because then that means they can't criticize them.

• 1:53:55Joe Rogan?

  100%.

• 1:53:56Speaker 01

  But by them saying woke mind virus every five minutes while they're talking about it, it just immediately polarizes half the people who they need to get on board in order to stop it, which is the left who, it's like, I don't know, there's just, um, I don't know, I think I might try to, one of these days I might just try to give the old thing a run and see, but I really think I could, it would be, it would probably end-

• 1:54:16Joe Rogan?

  Are you gonna run for president all over Anthony?

• 1:54:19Speaker 01

  It would probably end in like a nuclear war, but I think we could do, I think it'd be pretty interesting, I think.

• 1:54:24Joe Rogan?

  You gonna run for office?

• 1:54:25Speaker 01

  If you will.

• 1:54:26Joe Rogan?

  Fuck that, no, I've, no, I'm not on the same page, no.

• 1:54:31Speaker 01

  Vermont Supreme, call me up, no, I'm just kidding. I don't think I would, I, I might do like a governor run somewhere or something, or a mayor, maybe I'll start with mayor, maybe that's a good way.

• 1:54:40Joe Rogan?

  That seems like a terrible job, dude, don't do it, I would say don't do it, but if you have to do it, do it, I mean, someone should do it that's like you.

• 1:54:47Speaker 01

  I just remember my whole life, like since I was a kid, people were like, man, what would happen if just we got some regular dude in there and like all this, it's just like, I don't know.

• 1:54:56Joe Rogan?

  You'd probably get immediately disillusioned, you'd realize the entanglements that exist and I think it's impossible to navigate, I think once you get in there, you're like, holy shit, and when I talk to people that are in this administration now, that weren't before, that realize like all the paperwork and red tape and bureaucracy and all the different departments, all the people that are controlling these departments, and all the fucking resistance you have to any change, and all the people that don't want to give you the information that you're asking for, and it gets wild and exhausting, and you're dealing with a machine that's been operating pretty much unchecked for decades.

• 1:55:34Speaker 01

  Let's check him out.

• 1:55:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:36Speaker 01

  Give him the old check.

• 1:55:37Joe Rogan?

  Look what they did to Elon, he tried to check him out, they turned him into a Nazi.

• 1:55:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:55:41Joe Rogan?

  I mean, it's like.

• 1:55:42Speaker 01

  Well, do you think was there, I'm not well read on any of this. This is like, this is actually something I wanted to ask you about at one point or another anyway, was your take on like the Elon Trump situation, but you know, I um.

• 1:55:53Joe Rogan?

  Apparently they're making up.

• 1:55:55Speaker 01

  You think things are cool now?

• 1:55:56Joe Rogan?

  Supposedly they had a long conversation on the phone.

• 1:55:58Speaker 01

  The argument, but the argument behind it was that they felt like Trump wasn't letting Elon. See, I don't, I don't know what to think of. I really don't know what to think of any of that situation or Elon in general. And I just say, I just, it really fascinated me that it seemed like they were both using Doge for different reasons, maybe, or they had different motivations behind it. But what if, what if it was like a genuine, what if there was genuine audits done on everything? And like, what if all that stuff did get uncovered? And what if somebody wasn't scared to just release all that stuff and the consequences of it? Like, people do deserve the truth, like.

• 1:56:32Joe Rogan?

  Well, they've released some of it, right? So we know a lot about USAID now. We know what that was. We know what crazy programs are in place. We know through Mike Benz's work, where the way he describes USAID as doing things that are too dirty for the CIA. You know, like he describes it being used as for regime change. And but under the name aid, it seems like it's just aid. Oh, we're helping people. It's Agency for International Development is what it really stands for. So there's that. That's been dismantled. The thing is they're, they're not spending less money. They're spending more money. They're spending like a trillion dollars on the, on the Pentagon. It's, the whole thing is kind of nuts because nobody wants to stop spending money. Nobody wants to lose their job. And they're all in a position where they have influence and there's thousands of different points of influence.

• 1:57:18Joe Rogan?

  And if you're the president or the vice president or, you know, any of these fucking people, it's a very difficult road. The, one of the things that I felt like was the most important was Bobby Kennedy. Because Bobby Kennedy getting in there, he was determined to find out what is the root cause of America's massive health crisis that we're all facing. Like, why are we having this? Why do we have different toxins that are in our foods that are banned in Europe? Why are we allowing the use of these different things that we know are terrible for the body? You know, why is there not greater scrutiny on these pharmaceutical drug corporations? Why are they not, you know, why are they able to lie and get away with it and prescribe things for people that don't need them and, and not be responsible for the health consequences of these things? And that this needs to be cleaned up.

• 1:58:04Joe Rogan?

  And so that's what he's doing right now. I'm very happy and I hope that he can really make meaningful changes. Cause it seems like he is. He followed, he fired the seventeen people that were the head of the vaccine schedule. And he's hired a bunch of new people. They're all very qualified. And one of them being Robert Malone. Robert Malone, the guy that everybody said was a kook that I got in trouble for initially for having on my podcast when they were trying to, you know, like when fucking Neil Young was trying to get me removed from Spotify. This is over Robert Malone. Robert Malone, who owns nine patents on the creation of mRNA vaccine technology. Certifiable genius, like unquestionably. They were calling him a kook.

• 1:58:47Joe Rogan?

  This guy's a kook. A guy who took the vaccine and had a horrible reaction. They were calling him a kook. So that guy being a part of this administration, being a part of the, you know, make America healthy again movement, very important. All that stuff is very important for everybody, not Republicans, not Democrats. If there's any area where we should be bipartisan on, it's that. And realizing that corporations have taken advantage of loopholes and of a bunch of different creepy laws that allowed them to poison you. And you're getting poisoned and you're addicted to this poison. And there's a way out of this.

• 1:59:23Speaker 01

  Well, he's, he's kind of where I got the inspiration for the call idea from, um, you know, he, he, uh, no, well, he, he and I actually met, he came out to my, he came out to the property where we filmed Richmond and all, and I met him. This was before he got linked up with Trump. He was still running. This is during all that and he was, he was still running for himself, but we had a long conversation about this concept for a healing center, which is like this thing that he's been kind of like as a part of all this, which is like, which is kind of the, the idea of people going out into nature and like learning how to grow food and learning how to like, cause in, in this, in this never-ending abyss of chaos where everything's changing so fast and nothing, you know, nature is,

• 2:00:03Speaker 01

  in nature has been affected by that through like some, you know, through chemicals and technology and other things, but for the most part it's. All the systems in nature, all the organization there and the, all that stuff is so sort of like the last thing that's untouched by man. You know, when you go out on two or 300 acres and you just sit there and you're watching the water go by, it's like, it, you just sort of, you take everything that we've talked about, like all this, these are all very complex, like just crazy century, thousands of year long things that mankind have done. But meanwhile, nature just sort of exists and does its thing. And it's like, it's, it's sort of a way to compartmentalize all this monstrosity into one little thing and realize that there is other, there is a reality outside

• 2:00:46Speaker 01

  of the reality that like modern society has constructed us to exist in 24/7.

• 2:00:51Joe Rogan?

  100%, 100%.

• 2:00:53Speaker 01

  Like, gosh, dude, that's the only thing that saves me is like, especially being a little bit, probably a little bit too introverted for this job position. Um, you know, going out on tour even for a weekend or two, or like, dude, by the time Sunday comes and we get through this and these two mothership shows, we have a, we got West Virginia next weekend, but I'll spend this whole week, I probably won't talk to anybody except for like immediate family, you know, I'll just have my, I'll just go sit out in the woods with the dogs and just watch the birds chirp and all that. But it's, there's something really important about that, that I wanna, I wanna, I wanna understand, like, you take, if you can take two or 300 acres, like, what can you plant on it that brings in the types of nature that benefit human beings the most? Like, I wanna

• 2:01:35Speaker 01

  conduct studies on like, everything from birds to plants to wildlife to different types, like, how do you put a human being who is so screwed up in the most optimal condition to heal and to fix? Like, cause it's obviously not the case, like, you're not gonna go to a mental institution or, and I'm not even suggesting for people who should be in a mental institution. I just mean, like, you know, people who, like, a guy I know who, you mentioned mushrooms and stuff, but there's a guy I know, like, that's in the Marines who's dealing with PTSD, like, how do you get him into a spot where he can just go out and roll, you know, like, you can't, it's hard to, it's hard to fix that part of your brain living in a city or living in a suburb and not having that, like, so that's, you know, um, so yeah, it's just like this crazy dream I have where like, it's sort of a, it's a way to rebel against all of this without rebelling. It's just creating a better way to do

• 2:02:20Speaker 01

  it. But imagine if he's like, this is like the pilot program for this thing where it's this sort of outdoor amphitheater and it's like, very immersive and in nature and you can, and you can like, Re-unlock these parts of your brain you talked about that are sort of very primitive and to us and then and then just emulate it over a period of time like so I'm doing these shows where they're they're they're nonprofit and the idea is just to go into an area that hasn't had music that's in an A or B ticketing market, do a show there, build them a blueprint, whether it's on a main street or in a farm field or whatever, but just somewhere where Live Nation and Ticketmaster can't touch it, build them a blueprint with like ingress, egress, promotions, how to sell the show, where to put the stage, how to set everything up, here's all the vendors you use, and then give them this blueprint where they can do it over and over and over again and just build like these sort of sanctuaries

• 2:03:03Speaker 01

  that exist all over the country that can't be like molested and preyed upon by all those big companies and all their crap. And I think inherently by doing that through like music and public speaking and other things, those spaces will almost serve as like like the way that communities thrive again and the way people reconnect. And I joke and say that like I everyone, every human being likes music and food and socializing at least a little bit. And if you don't, you're probably a robot and we don't, I don't want you there anyway, kind of a thing, you know, but like, so that's, that's it in a nutshell. But that all was inspired by Bobby's sort of idea for this healing center that he talked about. I think it's a place over in Italy that he used as a reference of, um, he had a relative go to and like, they were able to work with like leather and do all the stuff on a vineyard,

• 2:03:47Speaker 01

  I think. And it like, it had a, there's a lot of, you know, we know very little about the human mind. That's why psychedelics are still illegal. And so, and there's so much misunderstanding and misconception and just confusion even there. Cause think about, I mean, like our brains are just so infinitely complex even, you know? Uh, yeah, so.

• 2:04:04Joe Rogan?

  Nature's definitely a part of your health. Without nature, I don't think you really get totally healthy.

• 2:04:08Speaker 01

  We're a part of nature, you know, like we're a, we're a natural thing existing in a world that we've created that isn't natural. And so like, this is all, you know, like this is all, everything that we've talked about is just sort of man-made constructed bullshit that is now, that is now reality to us, but there, but it's just part of a bigger thing too. That is, we sort of get isolated inside of it, especially when we're on our phone all the time. It's like.

• 2:04:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, especially. I've laid off social media and it's, it's amazing. It's like it lifts this weight off your brain.

• 2:04:37Speaker 01

  How do you, how do you manage social, this is one thing I really have a hard time with and it makes, I feel bad because I end up upsetting people or whatever, but like. How do you? A lot of people want your time and they want to send you text messages and they want to bother you with stuff and they want to. And it's not even they want to bother you, they really gen- but like, how do you manage that? Do you just have a small social circle or are you just really social or like, how do you find? There's people where I just won't text them back for like months and then they, then they think I hate them and it's not that I hate them. It's just like, I can't just sit and text. I just can't send hundreds of texts every day to it. Like, I have to. Like, how do you balance all that?

• 2:05:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you gotta keep changing your phone number.

• 2:05:16Joe Rogan?

  But you also gotta get comfortable with not texting people back because you can't text everybody back. Like, look at my phone, wanna see something? I'll show you this. Look and see how many unread text messages I have. Upper left hand corner, what does it say?

• 2:05:33Speaker 01

  Six hundred and twenty-three.

• 2:05:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, good luck. How? How am I gonna read those?

• 2:05:39Speaker 01

  I know.

• 2:05:41Joe Rogan?

  It's not possible.

• 2:05:42Speaker 01

  I think it goes back to my, when I was at work before and I had to keep up with the phone for work and I had, you know, it was like. It's just instilled to me that, like, it just drives me, so I don't know, that's why, yeah, I've, I've bought that flip phone that I carry and there's just times.

• 2:05:56Joe Rogan?

  It's a good move. You, you get your brain back.

• 2:05:58Speaker 01

  It's also tough though because there's people I do want to stay in contact with, like, you know.

• 2:06:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but you can always reach out to them.

• 2:06:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:06:05Joe Rogan?

  It's like, you know, we have this idea of immediate interaction with people that it's necessary. It's important and sometimes it is important, like, maybe there's something going on, maybe your wife is pregnant, like, who knows? Right? You need immediate contact, but most of the time you don't. The vast majority of the time you don't.

• 2:06:21Speaker 01

  We lived a long time without it.

• 2:06:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I mean, you don't want to not be there for somebody who needs you in an emergency, but other than that.

• 2:06:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:06:29Joe Rogan?

  It's good to be free. You just, it's better for your brain. I don't, I, like I was saying, I don't think we're supposed to be getting the bad news from eight billion people. It's just too nuts. It's a little, we're just too.

• 2:06:40Speaker 01

  I don't think we're even supposed to socialize with that many, I mean, we, we thrive in smaller. I mean, that's why all these, yeah, we we definitely thrive in smaller.

• 2:06:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, keep a tight tribe.

• 2:06:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:06:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, keep a tight tribe, keep a tight tribe of people that are cool and make it so it's beneficial to everybody. So there's no resentment, you know, that's one of the things that happens in when a guy gets really famous like you're getting. Is that some you can have the wrong people around you, you know, maybe you like look past some of the resentful behavior that they showed when you weren't successful and then it manifests itself when you're successful. They look, you could tell like someone around you actually wants you to fuck up. And that's a ter- I've seen that happen with friends. It's a terrible place to be.

• 2:07:25Speaker 01

  There just has to be some kind of way that I don't have to be famous, though.

• 2:07:28Joe Rogan?

  Ah.

• 2:07:28Speaker 01

  There's a way where this is, yeah, but there's a way where this is like, I'm just like, I don't know. It's gotten a lot better, but um.

• 2:07:36Joe Rogan?

  You're just gonna have to deal with it. Like I said, this is the the path that you've been given in this world.

• 2:07:41Speaker 01

  I just mean that, I just mean that like I should, like I just don't want fan, I just don't want people to perceive like I'm just some dude that's written a song and we're, but this is like a collect, like I said, this is a collective thing, like the fact just if you look at the, if you look at the rate of people who buy my songs on iTunes versus most label artists, it's like comically disproportionate, like people, people buy my songs out of support and stuff. And so what I'm saying is that this is like a thing, like this isn't just, I'm sitting up here and y'all are all down there. Like this, in my mind, this is just a thing where we're all equal and it just happens to be, this is the music cat, this is the music catalog that we're giving people a middle finger with, but I don't, I wouldn't for a second want to ever think that like, that I'm above somebody else on some social hierarchy because of it or something, I guess.

• 2:08:26Speaker 01

  I don't want to feel like I.

• 2:08:28Joe Rogan?

  That's not necessary.

• 2:08:29Speaker 01

  This is just something where like, I just, I'm just so excited to see where this can go in the sense of like, like, like I said, it's just exciting that like, like some just full blown idiot like me with a couple of his buddies can figure out how to do this and rally enough support up behind it. I'm just like, what could really happen if we, like, what could really happen if things were like? If I actually knew what I was doing, or if like enough of us got together, like we could really just flip. We could just flip everything upside down pretty quick and it'd be hilarious.

• 2:08:55Joe Rogan?

  You don't have to become a different thing just because you're famous. That's a myth. You know, you don't have to become better than people. You don't have to think you're better than people just because you're famous. You can maintain who you are. It's totally doable.

• 2:09:08Speaker 01

  Totally, yeah.

• 2:09:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I do it. I'm just me. I'm the same person.

• 2:09:11Speaker 01

  You are, yeah.

• 2:09:12Joe Rogan?

  I've been doing it the same, and that's one of the reasons why I do the podcast, the exact same way. I do it the same way. I don't think, oh, this is gonna be a big one.

• 2:09:19Speaker 01

  Everybody asks, that's the first thing a lot of people ask is, how was Joe Rogan? And I was like, he's Joe Rogan, like, there is no...

• 2:09:26Joe Rogan?

  So much easier that way. Just be you all day.

• 2:09:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, like if you've watched him on the podcast, you've seen him in real life. He's, you know, it's like...

• 2:09:34Joe Rogan?

  You see me at my worst and you see me at my best. That's it.

• 2:09:37Speaker 01

  But...

• 2:09:37Joe Rogan?

  You know, I'm a human being, just like anybody else. This is why, why I encourage everybody who wants to do something like this to go do it. Anybody could do this.

• 2:09:45Speaker 01

  Exactly, yeah.

• 2:09:46Joe Rogan?

  You might not do it this well immediately, because you're gonna learn how to do it, but it's like everything. You can learn how to do it. Like, you, you can learn how to sing, you can learn how to do stand-up, you can learn how to play guitar, you can learn how to draw, you can learn, oh, I could never do that. You can. Some people can do it better than you. Some people are naturally talented in different areas. You know, especially when it comes to athletics, but you can do it. You can do it. You can get better. Every, and getting better at something and doing something is beneficial to the whole of your life. Because if you can apply that same, those same principles to everything, you can get better at everything. And you get better at being a person.

• 2:10:24Speaker 01

  And inspire other people, like, yeah, like the more, the more good that you can do and the more you can put out, the more it inspires others to do too.

• 2:10:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, the more work you put out too. The more songs you put out, like Scoring for a Woman, the more stuff that like really resonates with people. It affects people, man. It's like you, it's that wings of the butterfly, man. You know, you're like, you're really, you're like spreading it out and, you know, and it'll inspire more people to write songs. It'll inspire more people to do things. It'll inspire, it'll inspire people to write books. It's just, that's what we do. We inspire people. People inspire people. And people, by doing something that we know is difficult and they get through it and they create something like, wow, and you go to see, you know, fucking U2 at the Sphere, like, wow.

• 2:11:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:11:07Joe Rogan?

  You know, that's what it's all about, man. You know, that's, that's the beautiful thing that... Is this kind of artistic connection that you have with the community, with the people that that enjoy your work. As long as you respect that and as long as you understand what it is, you'll be great. You're just gonna have to deal with being famous, bitch.

• 2:11:27Speaker 01

  You know, I I have to, I have to, you know, like, I do. I do think you're actually right. I probably was a little misspoken. Now that you say what you said about AI being able to replace music and stuff, I do agree that like, there is a part of it that AI will never, they'll never understand the human experience enough to be able to write music about it. That's that captivates people in a way that music can that's been written by people. I do agree with that.

• 2:11:52Joe Rogan?

  Yes, your songs.

• 2:11:53Speaker 01

  They can make it sound better and cooler and catchier. But I do think like, I do think the people that are really writing it are the ones that, um, and the ones that really write. I mean, like, just to talk about the the songwriting process was scornful. You know, we were, I had been, um, we had just gotten done with the touring over the summer for the most part in 2024. And, um, well, obviously, things are what they are. But there's just been, there was just a, like, multiple different negative things happening at once. And I kind of got in this, I got in a spot where I I did my thing, where I sort of spiraled and just was isolating myself. And so I spent a month and a half or two months in that house, pretty much. I didn't do, I didn't do Thanksgiving or Christmas last year.

• 2:12:35Speaker 01

  I just, just really didn't hardly talk to anybody or anything. And so I was like at a, you know, I was in a, I was in a posi, it was in a position where it was like probably time to write a song like that. And, um, and there's a few things I do want to clarify too, talking about this. But so anyway, so me, Draven from Radio WV and Joey are all sitting in the kitchen of this house where we recorded the song. And it's probably in the fall sometime. And Joey, it's three in the morning, right? And, um, we like, we were all just like wired and, um, I can think about Joey talking about really wanting to write a song. And so him and Draven were asking me about my songwriting process and what I do. And so like, I just went and got the guitar. And I said, we were sitting there around the table. And I can remember it was me and Joey sitting here and Draven leaning up against the counter.

• 2:13:20Speaker 01

  And we were just talking about it. And I said, well, I said, if you're gonna write a song, I was like, the first thing you gotta do is figure out what you're gonna write about. And it's gotta be something that you feel, not something that you can just articulate about. It's gotta be something that's like in there that needs to come out, you know? And so we sat there for like 10 seconds and. scornful woman was the word that was used, you know, and it was like, it was, it was specific relationships, but also it was a collection of all, like the experiences that we had all had, like I think in horrible, we'd all had horrible relationships too in the past, of course, we all have, you know, like every dude on earth has been, has been through what that song talks about in one way or another.

• 2:13:54Speaker 05

  Can we play it? Let's, let's cue it up.

• 2:13:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:13:56Speaker 05

  Let's cue it up. Jamie, cue it up.

• 2:13:57Speaker 01

  But within two or three minutes, the whole song was written. It was just like, it just, it just came out, you know, and that's.

• 2:14:03Speaker 05

  AI is not gonna do that.

• 2:14:06Speaker 01

  There's something.

• 2:14:06Speaker 05

  There's, there's, there's, there's things that resonate in that song that AI is never gonna be able to understand.

• 2:14:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:14:12Speaker 05

  Yeah, and that's the thing. That's the thing that's gonna separate people from the machine and live performance. That, this kinda stuff, this kinda stuff right here.

• 2:14:23Speaker 05

  Mercer County, West Virginia.

• 2:14:38Speaker 05

  Well, she got a side to her. I wanna run from. She'll turn a warm afternoon into a cold, cold one. Well, he grabbed the apple and Adam took a bite. And now all these years later, and the math still ain't right with a scornful woman.

• 2:15:16Speaker 05

  I used to sleep so good, didn't have a night. There, I was busy dreaming, believing he's always gonna be right there. And now the middle of the day is like the middle of the night. And the court says fifty-fifty, but the math don't seem right with a scornful woman.

• 2:15:48Speaker 05

  A scornful woman.

• 2:16:16Speaker 05

  She can have all the money.

• 2:16:22Speaker 05

  They can keep all the fame.

• 2:16:28Speaker 05

  I'd go back to being broke as a joke if I could just get a break from the pain.

• 2:17:20Speaker 01

  It's in the description of the video, but there's a, the biggest shout out of all this is to the, there's a firefighter that we, he let us use this footage too. I think it's out of Brazil. But the name of the firefighter is in the description, but for the, the GoPro footage, it was really cool. He let us use that.

• 2:17:34Joe Rogan?

  Oh, so that's a real fire?

• 2:17:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's a real firefighting GoPro video that we found and we reached out to the guy and asked him if we could use it.

• 2:17:41Joe Rogan?

  That's cool.

• 2:17:42Speaker 01

  But I just wanted to give him a shout out on here.

• 2:17:45Joe Rogan?

  Joseph, volunteer firefighter for third company, Bomb Los Guitos in Chile.

• 2:17:52Speaker 01

  Chile, sorry, yeah.

• 2:17:53Joe Rogan?

  That's awesome.

• 2:17:54Speaker 01

  I've been, my mind's been in kind of a blur lately, so I should have remembered that, right?

• 2:17:58Joe Rogan?

  That's alright, we got it. That's awesome. Fucking song dude. Woo! That song, that song's a firecracker.

• 2:18:06Speaker 01

  I can't wait for you to hear some of the, like, um,

• 2:18:10Speaker 01

  I'll, I'll turn this on. I'll play like, just like, I'll leak like 20 seconds on one of the other ones.

• 2:18:14Joe Rogan?

  When is it gonna come out?

• 2:18:16Speaker 01

  I don't know when the next ones will, um... I don't even wanna say a day, cuz I don't know. I'm such a procrast- I wanna say like within a month or so, like-

• 2:18:25Joe Rogan?

  What are you doing with it? You changing anything on it, or are you just not releasing it yet?

• 2:18:29Speaker 01

  Just not re- I've just got- I just need to get my life together a little bit.

• 2:18:33Joe Rogan?

  Well, just release it right now. Put it on the show. Put it out on the show. Send it to Jamie.

• 2:18:39Speaker 01

  I'll play like thirty seconds of s- I don't even have like a- I don't even have like a full file of anything on here. I've just got stuff that I've recorded off my phone, but just- to give you an idea of like some of the other stuff I'm working on, like this one, um-

• 2:18:52Speaker 01

  let me see... which one of these? They're all just say like "New Recording 432", so I gotta remember which, like probably this one's probably one. I don't know if this'll be right or not, but this'll give you an idea of something.

• 2:19:40Speaker 01

  I just got a bunch of little clips like that of where we were practicing the guitar parts, but anyway, I got a few more that are like- pretty heavy. I don't know what they are. I don't know. People will figure it out. There's something. I don't- I don't even- I don't like to even try to describe many of that stuff cuz I don't know what it is, but-

• 2:19:55Joe Rogan?

  So are you gonna release it all as a full album, or are you gonna just do it like, um, song at a time?

• 2:20:00Speaker 01

  Probably just song at a time right now, just cuz it's simpler that way. Um... Yeah, and then I'll just- I don't know what I'm gonna- I don't know what the long-term- plan is. I wanna get- I'll get to the end of this tour this year in October and, um-

• 2:20:13Joe Rogan?

  You don't need a long-term plan. Just keep doing what you like doing.

• 2:20:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, I will.

• 2:20:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, this all long-term plan shit, that's people with vision boards. You don't need-

• 2:20:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're right. Yeah, no, you're right. I have been take- I've just tried to take it. I do have to think long-term though, cuz I wanna make the most of this, just for- I don't know, man. The only thing I want, like, I just wanna look back when I'm old and just think like, just think like, fuck yeah, we did it. Like, we did this thing.

• 2:20:39Joe Rogan?

  Well, if you just keep doing what you're doing, you will do that. 100%.

• 2:20:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I mean bigger. I just wanna see, like, I just wanna see the, I just wanna, I don't know. I just wanna watch the machine crumble, you know? Like, I just, I have this, like, thing inside me that...

• 2:20:53Joe Rogan?

  It's gonna probably crumble on its own. It'll still exist in some form, but, you know, as long as you can thrive without it, it doesn't matter. It really doesn't matter. And more people realize that there's a way to do it that's authentic. There's always gonna be people that are drawn to that, and it'll be more and more people as things get more and more disconnected and feel less and less human.

• 2:21:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:21:16Joe Rogan?

  There's been more and more driven to it.

• 2:21:17Speaker 01

  There's been so many big people go up against it and not be able to quite figure it out, like even Pearl Jam back in the 90s, you know, trying to go up against, I think Live Nation it was, or Ticketmaster, and... I don't know, man, I just wanna see. That's like, that would be my biggest, that would be the biggest thing that I would feel some sense of accomplishment about a long time. It's like, just how do you get all these people together who have been disenfranchised by the music industry and just rally them together in a way that, like, it's not to take anyone down or to do anything bad at all towards anybody, but it's just to, like, imagine what society would be with real music again, without a bunch of label-propped-up shit and every, stuck in everybody's head. Like, what if people really listened to what they loved and, like, and like, it was real?

• 2:22:00Speaker 01

  It was like the organic side of things is what drove music through the roof. Like, imagine what that would, imagine what, 'cause think about what music can do to you, like, not even in the moment, but just what it means to you over time. Like, going back and, I go back all the time, like, uh, and I listen to, like, a 1999 live, uh, like, a live Stain session or something from back then and just, or like, old Hank Williams III songs, or, like, I don't know, stuff I listened to a lot as a kid and, like, man, it'll just unlock all these memories. You think about, like, all of a sudden, you're, like, back in a place that you never even remembered you ever were. It's just, it's such a powerful thing on us, you know?

• 2:22:37Joe Rogan?

  So I'm sorry I just sneezed.

• 2:22:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, but that's.

• 2:22:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it is powerful, man. It's powerful to do what you're doing. What you're doing is that. You're doing that. Yeah.

• 2:22:46Speaker 01

  Well, I'm not doing nothing here.

• 2:22:47Joe Rogan?

  Shut the fuck up. You are. You are. You're in that groove. You know, just keep doing what you're doing. It's awesome. And it's inspiring and more people are gonna do it. And I love that you wanna help more people do it. That's great. Cause I guarantee you, there are these Charlie Crockett's out there. There's these guys out there that people haven't heard of before. And then you see him playing on a street corner one day, you're like, where are you from? Like, how are you doing this? This is crazy.

• 2:23:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:23:10Joe Rogan?

  You know, there's people like that out there in the world. I remember we went, what was that place that we went to saw Ellis Bullard? The white, what is it called? White Horse? White Horse? Yeah.

• 2:23:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:23:19Joe Rogan?

  And we were like, look at this fucking guy.

• 2:23:20Speaker 01

  Here in town, right?

• 2:23:21Joe Rogan?

  Nobody there.

• 2:23:22Speaker 01

  We went there last time we were here. We were planning on going back. We was actually thinking about trying to swing by there this evening.

• 2:23:27Joe Rogan?

  Great little spot.

• 2:23:28Speaker 01

  That was so much fun last time.

• 2:23:29Joe Rogan?

  Great little spot. So there's people like that out there, you know? They just have to get an audience.

• 2:23:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:23:35Joe Rogan?

  Someone has to, you know, give them a little boost. Reach back, grab their hand, help them up.

• 2:23:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:23:41Joe Rogan?

  That's one of the best things about the comedy community right now, is that we all do that for each other. So it's like, there's a real pathway. So there's a lot of people that are moving to Austin from all across the country, you know, that like, hey, I think if I get there, that's a place where you could really launch from.

• 2:23:55Speaker 01

  What's powerful about your platforms here, like you and just, and all the other people, like you said, that are in that network, is that you, this is all stuff that you've built, that you have control over. Like, these are, that's what's cool about it, is it's like this sort of new, it's a whole new business that you've kinda got here. Like, in the comedy world, it's not, it's not owned by anybody or anything. It's like, it's wild and free and chaotic and it could go anywhere. And that's what's, that's what's exciting to me. It's like, um, dude, like I said, I just don't know. I just don't know what, who knows what'll even come of what you got going on here in, um, in Austin. But this has.

• 2:24:33Speaker 01

  Has shaped a lot, like in a, in a world where everything is so, is so predicted, like there's less and less people able to sit around in a boardroom and a skyscraper somewhere and decide what the next big thing's gonna be. It's like, it's more, it's, I don't know, it's just, it's exciting to be a part of that. Despite all the, there's so many ways that you can, you can look negatively about everything going on, but there is this sort of transfer of power that I just hope can happen in a, we only have a very short window of time for it to happen in though, you know, pretty soon, pretty soon we'll all have a Neuralink and we'll be, we'll be talking to each other in, beep boop beep boop boop boop, you know, but we've got a little bit of time maybe before that.

• 2:25:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, maybe. I think we're the last real people.

• 2:25:13Speaker 01

  We're the last people that knows what it was like before to understand what's, what like, what real life really is. Um, and it's so hard to even say what that, what that even means, but I just mean that like, even already, there's people on YouTube that, that comment on a video that's AI, everyone in it's AI, the whole narrative is, and it'll have like a million, and like probably half the people commenting on it are bots too, but I just mean that it's not even like we're gonna be deceived that way. I think at some point it'll almost, somehow, somehow it'll come to a point where we won't really understand what is real life or what is digitally artificially created. And it won't even, it's not that we won't even be able to tell the difference, but we won't even care to tell the difference.

• 2:25:54Speaker 01

  The fake world will feel more real than the real world in a short period of time somehow, like it'll, it will, it'll influence our, our sensory, like it'll, it'll, it'll influence that more than real life will. Like it'll become just like, everything will just feel, I mean, it already feels that way. That's why we're so drawn and all, but as it all becomes more realistic and more creative and more tailored to, to draw us in, it will be, um, just mass deception.

• 2:26:21Joe Rogan?

  It might have already happened. This is what's really terrifying is the simulation theory. The idea that, oh, I would be able to know if it was a simulation. Would you? I don't know. You know, Elon thinks it's a simulation. He thinks the chances of it not being a simulation are in the billions. He thinks that this whole thing is probably our consciousness interacting with a program.

• 2:26:46Joe Rogan?

  Which is very bizarre to think, but if you keep going with what we're doing right now, that is inevitable. If you look at the way technology is recreating things with AI and making things look completely realistic, and then you extrapolate, you look into the future 20, 30, 40, 50 years. Yeah, they're gonna be able to give you an experience that's, you're not gonna know. So how do you know if that's already happened? And maybe that's how the world actually works. Maybe this idea of the material world is an illusion. And that everything is your consciousness interacting.

• 2:27:20Speaker 01

  Well, we're only able to perceive reality through a limited, through limited means. I mean, sight, sound, smell, et cetera, like, there's, there could be components of reality here that we're not able to see. I mean, and that's where like, I definitely lean into recognizing that there is this whole, like, I do believe there is this whole spiritual element at play too, and I see. Yeah, it's just, it's hard to, it's just no, there's no way to tell, but this, it's kinda like, it's funny though, because the same mentality that you could use to think about the world being a simulation, you could also think about it being, I mean, it's so organized and so perfect that, yeah, I agree that it's operating on some program. I just think that that program is being mandated and created by, by what is represented

• 2:28:02Speaker 01

  in my mind as God, or, you know, Jesus Christ, other people may just be considered like a, like a software or a program, but it is all the same thing. Obviously, there is some, like, life is a thing that we don't quite understand that, that finds itself in the, in the midst of so many different parts of reality, like life, like, just in the soil, there's so many different millions of bacteria that just make it possible for stuff to even be able to grow, and all those things are arguably intelligent and have these organized systems, and then you see the way birds fly in the sky, and just the way that, like, the way that even we have these sort of inherent parts programmed into us. It's just, it's- There's really no way to tell, but what's so funny is that in just a short period of time, we'll all be forgotten about anyway and we'll never really know.

• 2:28:43Speaker 01

  And maybe even this, even this technology that has existed, has existed before and will go away again. It's just no way to really tell. I think at the end of the day, like to your point, I think humanity and the truth within it is what is all that really exists. And everything else just sort of swirls about and, and we're always wanting to expand upon what already exists. You know, we're not creatures that like repetition or we like to just always figure out what the next big thing is, even if it is our demise, you know? It's weird, we're sort of, we're sort of chasing to build these, to build our replacement somehow, I don't know.

• 2:29:15Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's a fact. Yeah, we're definitely doing that. No question at all. We've already replaced our memory with your contact list. I mean, how many numbers? I know like three people's phone numbers. I used to know everyone's phone number. I used to be able to rattle off all my friends' phone numbers. I used to be able to call them from a payphone. That was how I got a hold of people back in the day. Now I don't remember anything. I remember my high school phone number that I had when I was a kid. I don't remember my best friend's phone number.

• 2:29:42Speaker 01

  I can remember my best friend's phone number from high school. He still has it and I'll still text him now and then. Yeah, but I can, it's crazy that you.

• 2:29:49Joe Rogan?

  Your contact list has replaced your memory.

• 2:29:52Speaker 01

  It has, yeah.

• 2:29:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And then, you know, anytime you have a question, you just press that button on your phone. Hey, you know, what year was this? You know, what year was Gettysburg? What year, you know? And you can find anything instantaneously. And that's good, but it's also weird because now you're dependent upon that thing. And you're connected to that thing. That thing is just going to get more and more a part of your life. Whereas you said before, you can't even leave your house without your phone and you feel weird.

• 2:30:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, but that, all those resources right now are used because there is no like real protocol or way for us to be necessarily productive with it. Like. Like in a broader spectrum that a lot of people just use all those tools and resources as just endless entertainment and mind numbing distraction, but really all that stuff is makes us super powerful if we're able to harness it correctly. Like I said, like, like just imagine the, imagine the information and the data and the resources that we have access to that people like kings and dictators and emperors and the most powerful people in the world could have never dreamed. Like we have it just right here for free on our phone like.

• 2:30:53Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think we don't realize how informed we are in comparison to people in the past. People in the past were extremely naive about the way things work. Just that has just been something that we have just accepted as being normal in the last 20 years. But it's not normal. It's not normal to know this much about congressional insider trading. You know, like, how do we all know about that now? And how, how do we all know that it's been going on forever? Nobody did anything about it. You know, there's a lot of things that we know now that make the people, the powers that be very creeped out, you know, including things like podcasts. They don't like it at all. That there's no one, that no corporate entity pulling the strings behind the scenes. It's just people. And that some

• 2:31:37Joe Rogan?

  person like a Theo Von or whoever can have whoever they want on anytime they want.

• 2:31:42Speaker 01

  And say whatever they want.

• 2:31:43Joe Rogan?

  And that person might say some wild shit that has the internet scrambling, is this true? And then they have to Google it. They don't like that at all. They don't like that this affects elections. That people realize like, hey, you're being lied to. Hey, the, the FBI contacted Facebook. It was telling them to remove factual information because it might affect the election. Like, this is crazy. Like the stuff that we know now that a lot of people know now was the stuff of conspiracy fantasy when I was 20 years old.

• 2:32:15Speaker 01

  But what does it really, what does it mean to us though? Because yeah, we know all that about Facebook, but we all still use Facebook. Like, like it's um. I think that now our our ability to communicate has become so contingent upon these platforms that we know they're no good for us. We know they harvest our data and they all the terrible things that are associated with them, but we still it's like where else where else but Facebook Marketplace can you find all these sweet, you know, I mean, that's like.

• 2:32:44Joe Rogan?

  You don't have to get totally influenced by it, though. The more you're aware they're influencing you, the less effect it has on you. You know, the more you're aware of the magic trick, you're like, oh, that rabbit's up his sleeve.

• 2:32:53Speaker 01

  There's just a connectivity that we can't find elsewhere. So there's this void that we have to like, we have to use it to fill the void, I guess is what I mean.

• 2:32:59Joe Rogan?

  You don't, you don't have to.

• 2:33:00Speaker 01

  Maybe through like, that's why I really want to try doing. I've had two or three people really pushing me heavy to try to do jujitsu, but that's something where like, it's the it's like the community and the relationships you get out of it. That's just important. Maybe then the practice of it itself, like the, I don't know, that's the way it's been like, maybe in those sort of circles, you do get that, but you just don't get it in a broad, you know, there's not a lot of broad ways to get it now, but.

• 2:33:22Joe Rogan?

  Jujitsu is definitely a way to do it. It's also a way where you get out all of your aggression in a very healthy way, in a cooperative way. You're doing it with other people that are your friends. And the beautiful thing about jujitsu sparring as opposed to like when I was kickboxing, like you kind of resented your sparring partners. They're fucking you up, you know, they're they're rocking you. Whereas in jujitsu, even if someone taps you a lot, you you're still their friend. You know, you realize like, oh, you got and they'll tell you, you can't, you can't do that with the right arm. The right arm has to stay tied to your chest because otherwise it once it's exposed, what I'm trying to do is get you to do that. So I can go to the other side and like, oh, okay, let's try it again. I'll show I'll show a guy. And when you do that with people, you're you're helping your friend beat you next time. But that's the way to get better. Like, you know,

• 2:34:07Joe Rogan?

  Eddie Bravo taught me that a long time ago. He goes, the more you teach people to catch you and the stuff that you do, the more people you'll be able to get it in people that even know it's coming. You'll be able it'll sharpen that technique up even more. If you can get people that know what you're doing, and you tell them what you're doing, you can still do it. Like Hicks and Grace used to tell people, I'm gonna get you in an arm bar on your right arm. You're like, the fuck you are. And he would still get it.

• 2:34:31Joe Rogan?

  But he was so much better than everybody that he would do that on purpose. And there's a beautiful thing about learning something that's very difficult that prepares you for life. Also, the other beautiful thing about jujitsu in terms of your mental health is that it's so difficult to do that it makes regular life easy. And regular conflict seems to be silly. Like, sometimes people get, like, super nervous if two people are just yelling at each other and you think a fight might break up. If you're, like, so used to strangling people, that's, like, totally normal. Like, "Oh, you guys got a fight?"

• 2:35:02Speaker 01

  Like, you see that in this, you see that in some of the videos that go around where somebody will get, like, broken into, like, they're and it's like the security footage. Like, I'm trying to think there was one that went around recently. Like, some guy was trying to break into a UFC fighter's truck and he went out there and just, like, kicked his ass.

• 2:35:16Joe Rogan?

  Justin Gagey.

• 2:35:17Speaker 01

  I think that was a, yeah.

• 2:35:19Joe Rogan?

  He tried to carjack Justin Gagey and he beat the fuck out of him. Yeah, the guy did that with Jon Jones. Jon Jones ran out with a shotgun and a fucking Belgian Malinois. Like, that's the wrong dude to break into his house. He's ready. And Shawn Strickland, that was another one. Shawn ran outside his house with a pistol.

• 2:35:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was thinking of that one, I think.

• 2:35:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, there's, there's a lot of the, you could fuck with the wrong dude. And that happens. There's, there's a lot of those wrong dudes out there now. There's so many people that are training in martial arts now. You never know. Like, if you're picking a fight with someone and you don't want to fight, you are rolling the dice.

• 2:35:50Speaker 01

  Those dudes are a lot scarier in real life than on TV, too. Like, I, um...

• 2:35:53Joe Rogan?

  Oh, hell, yeah.

• 2:35:53Speaker 01

  I finally got to meet, I met, I've met Brock Lesnar a couple of times now. I've just ran into him randomly. And just like the size of his hands, you're just like, "God, like, what, like, where did this guy come?" He's just like a machine, you know?

• 2:36:04Joe Rogan?

  He's a Viking. That's 100% Viking DNA. 100%.

• 2:36:08Speaker 01

  But I don't know the, there's no exercise I'm aware of that, like, makes your fists twice the size of a normal man. But he's just like, yeah, he's just like...

• 2:36:15Joe Rogan?

  Have you seen his daughter?

• 2:36:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:36:17Joe Rogan?

  His daughter's a shot put champion. Like, jeez Louise, she's a tank. Yeah, that's just pure Viking genetics, man. Those are the people at the front of the boat with the big battle axe. When you saw that boat pull up to your village, you knew you better start running to those mountains, son.

• 2:36:32Speaker 01

  I just can't imagine having to get in the ring with a guy like that and, like, "No, you gotta..." You're just like, "God, like, good luck."

• 2:36:37Joe Rogan?

  I know.

• 2:36:38Speaker 01

  You know?

• 2:36:38Joe Rogan?

  Imagine the guys beat him, too. That's even crazier. Guys beat his ass. You know? Alistair Overeem beat his ass. Kane Velazquez beat his ass. There's guys better than him, which is really crazy.

• 2:36:49Speaker 01

  There's always the bigger fish, yeah.

• 2:36:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and Kane wasn't even bigger. Kane was a bad motherfucker. He was, like, 240. He was, like, 25 pounds lighter than Brock. And he still beat his ass.

• 2:36:58Speaker 01

  Who in, who in fighting right now is exciting you like coming up into it?

• 2:37:03Joe Rogan?

  There's so many guys. There's so many men. Did you watch Marab's last fight last weekend? Marab, Dwyer, Willie and Sean O'Malley? That guy is insane. He's insane. His cardio is like something to, that everyone who has been involved in the sport for as long as I have is blown away by it. The guy's a freak. Daniel Cormier went to visit him after he won the title. He, he won the title Saturday night in the Sphere in Vegas. Beat Sean O'Malley. Dominant five round decision that just steamrolled him. The next day, Daniel Cormier goes to visit him. He's outrunning. Yeah, I mean, it doesn't stop.

• 2:37:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:37:42Joe Rogan?

  Doesn't stop. Just this guy from Georgia, from this, you know, war torn country who is just embraces that fucking grind at a level that nobody else can compete with. And when he gets in the ring, like no one can match his cardio. No one can match his pace. He melts the greatest of the greats. You see guys like Umar Nurmagomedov who's elite. He's world class. Like in any other time, he would be a world champion. And Marab's just overwhelming him. You see him just getting overwhelmed by the pace and Marab doesn't even get tired. He's a freak.

• 2:38:15Speaker 01

  So he's trained, he's probably trained in Georgia most of his life then? Do you think that gives him an advantage? Like he's been, he's trained in like sort of, maybe his fighting style? Or is it just like, is he doing the same type of fighting, but just better, you think?

• 2:38:27Joe Rogan?

  Well, you could see the evolution of his, his technique. So a lot of it is in America. So it's just his mindset and his, his drive. And I think some of it, you know, Farah Sahabi did a whole video about him saying he needs to be studied in a lab. Farah Sahabi, who runs TriStar in Montreal, is like one of the greatest gyms of all time. And he's one of the best minds ever in the history of MMA and he's blown away by this guy. He's like, there's guys that are on EPO, which is like, uh, you know, that's the cyclist take that makes you have more blood cells and it makes you have more cardio, but it's, you could have a fucking stroke. It's like super dangerous to take, but that's like a lot of the, like Tour de France guys get busted for that kind of. Some fighters get busted. He's like, guys that I know that have been on EPO don't have that kind of cardio.

• 2:39:12Joe Rogan?

  This is crazy cardio. This is like something freakish. And he's like, he thinks some of it's genetic, but Murab says it's not. Murab says, no, I used to get tired, I used to get tired. But he's just, I mean, he's a freak. He's a freak. And he just keeps getting better with his technique. He gets better with everything. His, that drive is not just for his cardio. That drive is for his whole skill set. So he's a fucking monster. And then Ilya Topurio, who's fighting Charles Olivera at the end of the month, like that guy is insane. That guy's knocked out two of the greatest featherweights of all time, Volkanovsky and Max Holloway. Nobody could knock those guys out in featherweight before. And he did it. And he did it and he made it look easy. You know, he made it look like they, like he's just on another level from everybody.

• 2:39:53Joe Rogan?

  You know, and then now he's moving up to 155 pounds. He's like, decided he cleared out that division. He's moving up.

• 2:39:58Speaker 01

  It's insane, yeah.

• 2:40:00Joe Rogan?

  There's guys like that that are just so, they're just, their, their level is above everybody else's level. And with Ilya, it's everything. It's his submissions, his kicks, his punches, everything. He does, he can do anything. I mean, he does everything perfect. All his technique is perfect. And he's fucking driven and ultra confident. You know, this is an amazing time for the sport, man. It's a, it's a crazy time because these guys that are coming in with like one fight in the UFC, they look like world-class contenders, like right away.

• 2:40:28Speaker 01

  Well, it's cool because it seems like it's, it's like a really, it's a really good way to get like obscure people into the spotlight. Like, it doesn't seem, it seems like if you can just go in there and fight good that you, it's like you can really work your way up to the top pretty quick, I guess. Like, I guess it does take some fights, but like if you're, even if you're, like, the guys that are in the top at the UFC now, how many fights do you think it takes them before they wreck it? Like, how many big wins? Is it really just a win or two, I guess, if they're big enough and they're like?

• 2:40:57Joe Rogan?

  It really depends entirely on their skill set and who they're fighting and how good they are when they get into the organization. Like, the best example of a quick rise to the top is Alex Pereira. But Alex Pereira is one of the greatest kickboxers of all time. And Alex Pereira, when he entered into the UFC, like, a lot of people were completely unaware of him. And me, as a- A giant kickboxing fan, he was the guy. That I was like, when this motherfucker comes over here, bodies are gonna drop, man. I'm telling you, you ain't never seen nothing like. And I remember Daniel Cormier saying to me like, really? I'm like, dude, I'm telling you. I was pointing to him on his, in his debut, I go, that's the motherfucker. That's the boogeyman of boogeymen. I go, he knocks people into orbit. And I was showing him some videos of kickboxing fights and he was like, holy shit.

• 2:41:42Joe Rogan?

  I go, dude, everybody he touches, he's got the touch of death. And then we start steamrolling people in the UFC and he knocked out Strickland in one round and the, the, the opening fight that he had, when he hit that dude with a flying knee and just sent him into orbit. And everyone was like, whoa. I'm like, yeah, dude, this guy is scary. So that guy was, within three years, was a two-division world champion. Which is just nuts, like, nobody's done that before. And, you know, defended the light heavyweight title multiple times in just a few years. And he's only really been fighting MMA for like five or six years.

• 2:42:18Speaker 01

  That's the excitement, I think, of MMA over other athletics, maybe. It's just the unpredictability of it, that like, anybody can just come in and catch everybody off guard and you just don't ever know. It's just.

• 2:42:28Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's specialists. So the thing about specialists is, if you're a specialist kickboxer, what you really need is someone to teach you how to fight on the ground. Like, and he had Glover Teixeira, who was also a former UFC light heavyweight champion, one of the greatest. And an amazing technician. And Glover helped him, along with all his other training partners, avoid the takedowns, learn how to fight off, learn how to fight on the ground, learn how to get back up to your feet. When you got a guy who's the best of the best kickboxers, every fight starts standing up. So while you're standing there with him, it's just, you gotta get that guy to the ground. You gotta get that guy to the ground, this is terrifying. And he, he'll fight with broken toes. He fought, he's fought so fucked up before.

• 2:43:10Joe Rogan?

  He fought, uh, when, when he fought Yuri Prochaska the first time, he had a completely blown out knee. Like, his knee wouldn't support him. He knocked Yuri Prochaska out with a left hook. And then he got his knee fixed, came back, fought him again and iced him in the second round. And he's just different, man. This last fight with a broken hand and he had a norovirus.

• 2:43:31Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 2:43:32Joe Rogan?

  And still lost a close decision in the fifth round.

• 2:43:35Speaker 01

  Maybe it almost, yeah, it almost helped, like almost helps him like that.

• 2:43:37Joe Rogan?

  Nah, it doesn't. It definitely doesn't. You could tell his energy was lower in that last fight than it has been in the past. Like the Khalil Roundtree fight was a fucking masterclass. And Khalil is like one of the best strikers in the light heavyweight division and Alex just pieced him apart.

• 2:43:51Speaker 01

  I think about what happens to, what happens after their careers are finished. Like what do they, where do they direct all of that energy to? Or does it, or does it, is it difficult when you're, is it, is it difficult when you're a high level fighter and then you get out of it like?

• 2:44:05Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it's so difficult. Your whole identity is wrapped up in it, you know? I just messaged Shawn Strickland the other day because I saw that he was talking about his investments and that he's, he's got, he's got four million in investments. And he's doing really well. And then, you know, he's got a plan. Like Shawn is very intelligent. He's wild and crazy. He says crazy shit, but very intelligent. And I was very happy. I imagine, I mean, that makes me feel so good that you've like, you're really thinking about like having money in the bank, retirement, investment. So you're good. You're good forever. And he'll always be able to do seminars and, and things along those lines. People, it's very valuable to be like a former champion. You could visit gyms and people will line up and pay 50 bucks. And you can teach them things that'll genuinely help their careers.

• 2:44:49Joe Rogan?

  So that, a lot of guys have a thing, like Misha Tate, she was just in Austin recently. And she, uh, she went to Ways Too Well to get, uh, some work done on her knee and she was out here doing seminars. So she's traveling with her family around the country and they'll go and she'll teach a seminar at a gym and then they'll go, you know, on an RV trip. You know, fight, nice family time.

• 2:45:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:45:08Joe Rogan?

  Have a good time in between, but they can make a lucrative living doing that, which is really nice, you know?

• 2:45:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:45:14Joe Rogan?

  It's hard for them, the identity thing's very hard.

• 2:45:16Speaker 01

  Well, I just wondered too, like the, it seems like some of those people are, um, well, you know, this is totally different than MMA fighters, but I look at like, like a great example is like, like that David Goggins type of thing where they're like just at it, like you said, dude, man, like you fight and the next day you're able to go run. It's just like, what happens when all that slows down? Do you redirect that somewhere? Or do you think it's difficult? Like if you don't have somewhere? You know, you found this really effective way to displace all of this because obviously those people have got something in them that like drives their spirit to be able to do that.

• 2:45:45Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think George St Pierre has the healthiest model because George still trains almost every day. And George still comes to Austin to train with the Donahers and Gordon Ryan, all these elite jujitsu guys. And he'll still go to Thailand and train Muay Thai. He's a genuine martial artist.

• 2:46:03Speaker 01

  And maybe, maybe he stopped before he destroyed himself too much.

• 2:46:07Joe Rogan?

  He definitely did. He definitely did.

• 2:46:08Speaker 01

  He's in good.

• 2:46:09Joe Rogan?

  He definitely did.

• 2:46:10Speaker 01

  Do you think those guys will ever come back? Like, like, uh, I know there was rumors about, do you think they would ever? Do you think for them that it would be beneficial for them to come back and fight once they've been out of it for so long?

• 2:46:20Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 2:46:20Speaker 01

  Like the Tyson fight and stuff was that? That seemed like, and I don't even know, that's a whole nother can of worms and I don't, I'm not articulate enough in this space to like, give my opinions on things, but I just, I would have liked to see Mike Tyson just. I don't know, just seemed like that just wasn't, it didn't seem like he enjoyed that coming back.

• 2:46:36Joe Rogan?

  I bet he enjoyed the 20 million bucks.

• 2:46:38Speaker 01

  He did, I bet.

• 2:46:38Joe Rogan?

  I think that's why he did it. He did it for money and I'm happy that he could do it for money. I'm happy that he can make a, a large amount of money doing something like that. That's all I'll say about that.

• 2:46:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:46:47Joe Rogan?

  But you're not supposed to be getting hit really hard in the head when you're 57 or 58 years old. It's probably not the best thing for your, your health. And at a certain point in time, like I kinda stopped kickboxing for the most part when I was like 30. I was like, this is just not good for you, you know, I was still sparring and I was, I was acting at the time. So I was doing news radio and I was still going to the gym and kickboxing. And you know, sometimes I'd have like a little black eye that I'd have to get touched up with makeup and shit before I go out to like. And I kept doing jujitsu, but jujitsu, I would get black eyes in jujitsu sometimes too, but jujitsu didn't, I didn't get my head rattled the same way.

• 2:47:28Joe Rogan?

  Like you, you still accidentally catch a knee sometimes and, or you headbutt each other sometimes, something elbow, stuff happens. But it's not like the constant jabs to the face and kicks to the body and you just get, you're, you're beating your brain up, you know, and it's just. Not good for you. At a certain point in time, like if you're an athlete and you're competing professionally, you manage it, you do your best to recover and take care of your health, but there's a price you pay. And I don't think you should pay that price if you don't have to, you know, and that's what, that's the thing about sparring. That's like, especially if you're sparring with someone who's like a hard hitter and they, they're not that good at pulling punches. And then it gets competitive and next thing you know, you're, you're basically fighting.

• 2:48:09Speaker 01

  Full on fighting somebody.

• 2:48:10Joe Rogan?

  Happens all the time. Happens all the time. It happens in a lot of gyms, it happens more often than not. You're actually fighting rather than sparring and just lucky you're not knocking each other unconscious every day. You know, because it's like your skill, but there's, there's something to be said for that if you're fighting because like you gotta be aware that there's real consequences to these shots. And if someone's pity patting you in sparring, maybe you'll develop a false sense of security, you know, and someone will crack you. You gotta be on the edge all the time. Like Farah Sahabi, who I was talking about earlier, would pay sparring partners to try to knock George St. Pierre out. He would pay them. I want you to try to knock him out like for real. Cause he wanted George to be like really prepared. You know, you're going in there and you, you know, you're gonna fight some fucking killer. You know, you, you can't be kinda half, you're, you know,

• 2:48:53Joe Rogan?

  you're, you're fighting Carlos Conde, he's gonna try to take your head off. You gotta be training with guys that are trying to take your head off.

• 2:48:59Speaker 01

  When they're in the middle of those fights, is it a lot of muscle memory or are they consciously thinking? Like, I feel like a lot of it, it's, they've trained so much that it's more automatic, right? When they get in that fight, like, like, like, like the way you see these slow, these slow motion replays of fights and they're able to like almost predict their opponent's move and like, react in real time with it and like just use it to their advantage. That's all sort of almost, it's not involuntary, but they've like trained their muscle memory to react that way, I guess. More so than them.

• 2:49:28Joe Rogan?

  At the elite level.

• 2:49:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, more so than them having to like think like, oh, here it comes. I'm gonna, you know? It's just so incredible to watch it, like the way it's, sometimes those fights are so good, they almost like, it's almost like choreographed. It's so good, the way they're able to like use their opponent's movements and to their own advantage and stuff. That's what's so, so crazy to me watching them. Just watching how like a human being can get to that level to where they're so good, you know?

• 2:49:53Joe Rogan?

  When someone's at the elite level, like the highest of high levels, it's an amazing thing to watch. Like there's a guy who's defending his flyweight title um at the end of June, Alexandre Pantoja. He's one of the best fighters of all time. I mean, he's so fucking good. But he's 125 pounds, so people, you know, they don't appreciate him as much as if that guy was 170, he'd be a fucking superstar. He's so good. He's so good everywhere. Elite black belt on the ground, nasty striking, hyper aggressive. Just dominant, just comes in, he has this look in his eyes like, I am here to fuck you up. And it's awesome to watch. I mean, he's like, when a guy reaches the pinnacle of his career, like when he's at the height of his powers.

• 2:50:38Joe Rogan?

  When he's at the peak of his, his performance and career and as a elite MMA fighter, it's something to behold, man. It really is. When you watch a guy just piece a guy up and take him apart, you're like, god damn. You know, I'd, I'd never get bored with it. Never. Never get bored calling the fights, never get bored. Like when, when I know it's a UFC night, I'm like, oh baby. Here we go.

• 2:50:59Speaker 01

  It still, it still gets you excited, just like it did at the beginning, yeah.

• 2:51:02Joe Rogan?

  And Daniel Cormier, who was a two division world champion, who's sitting next to me, he gets fired up. I mean, he's like grabbing my shoulders, oh man, here we go, here we go. We get so fired up. And it's, you know, as far as excitement generated, I think it's the most exciting thing in the world. I don't think there's anything like two people trying to figure each other out.

• 2:51:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:51:22Joe Rogan?

  You know, I mean, and then when someone's in that flow state, it's amazing thing to watch. It's beautiful. When they really hit that flow state, they just, everything is just perfect. It's like, oh man, that's so hard to get there. It's like an art form that you really can only truly appreciate if you understand the amount of effort that it took to get to that. If you could do a little bit of it, you can do it somewhat. You know, you have to be able to do some martial arts to really appreciate what they're doing. You know, you could see somebody kick somebody in the head, like, wow, that's crazy. But to really know how hard it is to pull off what he did, it's just like, god. Yeah.

• 2:51:57Speaker 01

  It's easy, it's easy to watch World Star Hip Hop where they're just like sucker punching each other, but to watch a guy exhibit that kind of skill on somebody else, knowing that like, and not even knowing, like I said, just meeting like the, the few UFC fighters that I've met and stuff, just looking at him and being like, gosh dude, like these dudes are just animals, you know, like to start, and then to watch somebody else be able to exhibit that kind of, just to kind of like unleash that kind of skill on them is just, you're right, it's such a raw, it unlocks such a, it unlocks that sort of monkey part of our brain that's just like, yeah.

• 2:52:27Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it's in your DNA, man.

• 2:52:28Speaker 01

  It's hard to, yeah, it's just such a, such a human thing, I guess.

• 2:52:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, like when people are really into cricket and someone scores in cricket, they get excited. I don't give a fuck, but if somebody kicks somebody in the head, everybody knows what happened. Everybody understands it.

• 2:52:42Speaker 01

  That's the, I think that, that's the same psychology behind chicken fighting, which is surprisingly prevalent. Um, like where we've recorded this song and all that still, but like with the, it's kind of the same like that. That's just, that's what they do up there. They don't hit each other. They just get chickens and do it.

• 2:52:57Joe Rogan?

  And they gamble. That's the big thing is gambling on chicken fights.

• 2:53:01Speaker 01

  It's a big, it's a big deal.

• 2:53:02Joe Rogan?

  Champion roosters. Oh, yeah, man.

• 2:53:03Speaker 01

  It's a big deal up there, yeah.

• 2:53:04Joe Rogan?

  I was just telling a story the other day about, uh, this guy that was my landscaper, that, that took me to this Mexican neighborhood that he lived in. And his buddy had all these chickens, like in cages, like all over the place. They had these roosters and they had a big pit where they would roast goats. And they would just get the chickens out, put them in the box and gamble. And it was like, I, I was explaining like, you want to talk about like integrated societies. This was a completely Mexican neighborhood in LA. Like, none of the signs are in English. Everything is in Spanish. Everybody spoke Spanish.

• 2:53:32Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 2:53:32Joe Rogan?

  You go down the street, you hear, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah. There's fucking roosters everywhere, man. But it's like, that, that's part of their culture. It's cruel and awful, but so is chicken farming, you know? They make soup out of the chickens after they have them fight each other. It's kind of fucked up.

• 2:53:50Speaker 01

  But it's, it's that same sort of like, um, it's the same, it goes back to like the Colosseum. It's that same kind of thing. Like it's that part of our brain that like, everybody's got some chase to get there. But yeah, I've always wondered that with the fighters. I've, I'm.

• 2:54:03Joe Rogan?

  The worst is dog fighting.

• 2:54:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:54:05Joe Rogan?

  That's the one I, you know, that one makes my stomach turn.

• 2:54:08Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:54:08Joe Rogan?

  That one bothers me because they like fighting. They really do. Pit bulls love it. They're, they're fighting, they're biting each other in the face and wagging their tails. They really enjoy it, but it's like, God, don't do that. Don't do that. He's just like, we don't want that.

• 2:54:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:54:22Joe Rogan?

  You know.

• 2:54:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, maybe it's when it's something you eat, you don't feel so bad about it, but when it's a dog, it's like.

• 2:54:27Joe Rogan?

  I just love dogs way too much, man, that that to me. You know, and I know the dog wants to do it, which is even more fucked up. You know, they want to fight, but they're bred for it. That's what's so crazy. People are so psycho. They bred a dog that wants to fight all the time and will fight anything. They'll fight bulls. They used to use them to grab bulls.

• 2:54:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:54:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. They're nutty dogs, man.

• 2:54:48Speaker 01

  Well, you know, where I was at in Virginia, we had, um. I, yeah, I was. I don't know if I'd say we were officially dating or not. I kind of was hoping we were, but I was. There was this girl I used to talk to a lot in middle school and they, um, you know, they weren't, they didn't live too far away from Michael Vick's place when all that went down.

• 2:55:04Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 2:55:05Speaker 01

  She actually had some puppies that were originally, they never fought. They were still puppies when he got busted, but they were some of Vick's dogs that she had. I remember as a kid and that was like, yeah, that I remember when all that went down, I didn't live, you know, we weren't relatively that far away from where all that happened, but.

• 2:55:20Joe Rogan?

  That was a real eye opening experience for a lot of people. They're like, wait, what? That guy's doing that? That's crazy.

• 2:55:28Speaker 01

  But I'm the same way. I've, I have, I have, dogs and humans are like at the same level of importance to me almost, you know, like, um. I finally repla-, I didn't, it's not a, not in any way to say replace, but just like for me, I've always, I'm used to having three or four dogs around. Cause once you train, if you train a couple of dogs real good and you get a couple more, nine times out of 10, they'll just learn everything from, you kind of get this pack mentality. And so I've had four for forever and then I'd gotten down to two when I lost Hooch, the white shepherd. So I finally just got this black German shepherd off this lady who was real, really nice lady and it wasn't. She didn't necessarily neglect the dog, but the dog was just a breeder's dog. So all she did was just have puppies with it and so like. Here I am, I'm taking this five year old black German shepherd down like to go swimming in the creek with us and stuff and like.

• 2:56:13Speaker 01

  It was like her first time stepping on a stick, you know, she stepped on a stick and like jumped completely in the air like she didn't know what it wa- You know, now, within two weeks, now she's like swimming in the creek with them and running all around and she acts like she's a farm dog, but like, this dog had just kinda been in this lady's front yard for years, I guess, and just didn't, hadn't even gotten to- But to me, it's like, here I am, I'm like ra- It's like, you know, they're like, they're my children, you know, they just- I don't, I can't, I can't separate a dog and a human in level of imp- You know, it's like that, like you're ju- Like, it's like that, that theoretical scenario where the train's coming and you gotta figure out which way to switch the tracks and it's like, elderly people or dogs and you're like, "Grr, I don't know what I'm-"

• 2:56:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:56:49Speaker 01

  But I'm with you, I love, I'm a, yeah, I just love, I love dogs.

• 2:56:53Joe Rogan?

  I like people more than dogs, but I love dogs.

• 2:56:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:56:56Joe Rogan?

  But, yeah, people are more important to me. But it's close. It's close. There's some people that I would kill for my dog.

• 2:57:03Speaker 01

  Hey, while I'm here, I'm gonna go pick up Poppy or whatever, I gotta, I wish I would've, um, I wish I would've saved him on there, I think his name was Poppy or Buddy or something, but that little Chihuahua at the- Society, Humane Society.

• 2:57:13Joe Rogan?

  Oh, you're gonna take him in?

• 2:57:14Speaker 01

  I might, I don't know, he's really goofy.

• 2:57:16Joe Rogan?

  Why not, man, take him in?

• 2:57:18Speaker 01

  He's like 12 years old or something, so he just needs somewhere to go, you know?

• 2:57:20Joe Rogan?

  Well, you'll give him the last few years of his life, it'd be awesome. Oh, and then, you'll be telling all the other people, "Oliver Anthony came and got me." "Hey, that rich man from Richmond guy, what a sweetheart."

• 2:57:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:57:30Joe Rogan?

  "Hey, he likes me more than people."

• 2:57:34Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, this is exciting, I, um, the mothership and just being able to go in there and do music and stuff is gonna be nuts. I've got a few, like, I brought, um, I got a friend of mine named Craig, who's like, one of my buddies growing up, who does just like amateur sta- He's a really funny guy, so I got him doing a little bit and, um, I've got Hickok 45's son, John, who, he does, uh, comedy in Chicago right now, he's gonna do a little stand-up thing there and, just, it'll just be fun, I'm just-

• 2:57:59Joe Rogan?

  Nice.

• 2:57:59Speaker 01

  It'll be real cool. I got, the guys that opened for me, the Davidson Brothers, they're gonna do a couple songs, they're real, they're really good and just, um, I don't know, I've been, this has been like, through all the stress and chaos of the last however many months of things going on and stuff being rearranged and all, this has been like my beacon that I've held on to of like, we just gotta get to the mothership and then-

• 2:58:18Joe Rogan?

  That's awesome, man.

• 2:58:19Speaker 01

  Everything will work out, you know, and-

• 2:58:20Joe Rogan?

  Well, we've been really looking forward to having you. Everyone and the staff, all the comics are real pumped, everybody's excited.

• 2:58:26Speaker 01

  I just couldn't believe the reception I got, like, even when I came with Tom that first time, just how everybody sort of took me in, like, like, I don't know, I'm just sort of the, well, also, a lot of people don't even know who I am, cause all they've seen of me is like just the internet stuff and all the political stuff and- So it was really surprising the first time even when we went to that mothership how, I don't know, just everybody there just was like very respectful and like and it just kind of like welcomed me with open arms. I kind of, I thought I was going in there like really like kind of an outsider and it was way more receptive than I've ever been in Nashville, you know, like with music people.

• 2:59:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's awesome.

• 2:59:04Speaker 01

  I don't know, like William Montgomery and all those guys are just so, so nice and so, um, just like, you know, you know, they're funny and they can make you laugh up on stage, but even in person, they're all just like really good people, like they're all just really genuinely good people, you know?

• 2:59:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, we've got a great tribe.

• 2:59:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:59:19Joe Rogan?

  It's a great tribe and the, the whole mentality of the club is like that, like everybody that's there is cool. You know, we've really.

• 2:59:26Speaker 01

  I think in comedy, comedy still, there's a lot of struggle in comedy for people to make it. I think even more so than in music, like that some of those people were telling me stories about like how tough it is to go out, you know, trying to make a, make, trying to make a career out of comedy. Like I guess unless you get a big Netflix special or you get a big break, like it's paycheck to paycheck for a long time, maybe for some of those guys, like until they get, or until they get to where they're like a, a regular at a big club like that, you're just, you're just off, you know, you're out, you're out putting yourself into a very vulnerable position a lot where people can just say, ah, screw that guy, you know, it's just.

• 2:59:58Joe Rogan?

  But you have to do that to get good at it.

• 3:00:00Speaker 01

  But I think, I think they have some appreciation for it that maybe other people don't, like they're like, it, like, I think that's, I, I pick up on that, like they get this, they get that everybody in there is struggling, trying to make it and had put a lot of their heart and effort into it and it just seems like it's, there's a lot of respect in there for each, for everybody and stuff, yeah.

• 3:00:19Joe Rogan?

  A hundred percent. Everybody realizes that there's only one way to do it. You gotta work hard for a long time. It's the only way. It's one of the few things in life that there's no shortcut to. Developing material and getting good at standup, it's a 10-year process. It's a 10-year degree. You want to actually become a real standup, it's probably about 10 years. Ten years of grinding. And for a lot of people like, oh, that's too long. It is too long. Yeah, that's why most people don't do it.

• 3:00:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:00:43Joe Rogan?

  But if you could do it, the people that are doing it and have been doing it for like ten plus years, like all those people hanging out in the green room, they're all so cool. It's a lot like jujitsu in that regard. It's like people that appreciate the difficulty of something and are really obsessed with getting better at it. You know, and obsessed with helping other people get better at it, too. Cause also like jujitsu, the more people that you have around you that are really funny, the funnier you'll get. Everybody has to be sharp, cause the whole show, like sometimes I'll do these Joe Rogan and Friends show. And it's fucking Asana mod, Brian Simpson, Tony Hinchcliffe, Shane Gillis, Mark Norman, and then I go up. Like, it's like the show's an hour and a half old before I even get on stage.

• 3:01:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:01:21Joe Rogan?

  So it's like you have to stay sharp. You have to, and if you're not, you gotta pick up the slack, you gotta figure it out, get back to the laptop, let's go. You gotta rewrite, do this, do that. But that's what we're all doing, you know, we're all, it's a, it's a vibrant place. That it, there's the, there's a mindset attached to that place that's very positive.

• 3:01:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:01:40Joe Rogan?

  That makes me real happy. And I'm real happy that you're gonna be there this weekend.

• 3:01:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think, yeah, I think this mothership thing's got a long future ahead of it in that sense of like, just reshaping. I don't know. I just, it's like a, it is kind of a beacon right now and a, like, I don't know, it's like, there's a big light shining up in the sky and every, that's kind of where everybody's looking. It seems like in that, you know, it's a, and even with Kill Tony, it's just cool that they, that's the coolest part about that is that it's like, you can just go right in there. Anybody can go right in there and give it their all, you know, for better, for worse.

• 3:02:11Joe Rogan?

  But you might make it. Look, you might be William Montgomery, you know, you might be Cam Patterson, you might be Hans Kim or any of these people that have like legitimate careers now because of that show. It's, it's pretty awesome. Oliver Anthony, this weekend, sorry, everybody, it's all sold out, you're not gonna be able to get in, but I'm fucking pumped, I can't wait.

• 3:02:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's gonna be sick.

• 3:02:30Joe Rogan?

  Thank you for being here, man, and thanks for the podcast, it was a lot of fun.

• 3:02:32Speaker 01

  Thank you, yeah.

• 3:02:32Joe Rogan?

  I really enjoyed it very much and it's great to see you find your place, man. You're getting it, you got it, you know, like you're, you're here now, you're established. The beginning, you're like, what the fuck is happening? But now you're like, you got a plan, you're moving.

• 3:02:44Speaker 01

  It was so many pitfalls and so many things, but it's a, it's a, it's a contribution of, I'd say, you know, like at the very beginning, you, Jamie Johnson, David Kushner, and just a couple of people who were like, had been in it for a while and were able to, well, with David, you know, he was fairly recent, but we were both. But just those people just being able to guide me along. The first six months was when I could have really slipped up hard and like could have just, I just was so thankful that I got through all that without being married to anybody or any company. Like, at least everything's still.

• 3:03:15Joe Rogan?

  No, you did it the right way.

• 3:03:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:03:16Joe Rogan?

  You did it the right way.

• 3:03:17Speaker 01

  So I appreciate the confidence there because it's terrifying. Man, you've been going to, you've been going to work every day for some guy that you hate and some job you hate. For so long, for like 50 grand a year. And then some, some dude is like showing you like, you know, like, and they have a really convincing way of doing it. It's just like, think about how easy you can get preyed into buying some shit used car on a lot. These people are like that, but like, they're like, they're like the professional UFC fighters of psychological warfare. Like, they're gonna make you feel like you're so stupid and that like, you've just tricked everybody for five minutes and you better, you better do it while it lasts, but.

• 3:03:51Joe Rogan?

  And if you don't come with us, it's never gonna make it. You're never gonna make it, but you were right, they were wrong, ha ha.

• 3:03:57Speaker 01

  And I don't care if nothing, like I said, if nothing else ever comes of this, this has been just such a blessing to be able to just meet all the people I have and experienced it and like, it's just cool, man. I don't care, I don't care where else, where it goes from here, I'm, I'm just totally, I'm just enamored by it all. It's just been, um, just another dimension I'm living in, dude, I don't know. It's like, not real life, but.

• 3:04:16Joe Rogan?

  It's beautiful.

• 3:04:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:04:17Joe Rogan?

  All right. Thanks for being here.

• 3:04:19Speaker 01

  Yes, sir, thank you. Maybe in a couple more years.

• 3:04:21Joe Rogan?

  Fuck yeah, a couple months, fuck it. All right, bye, everybody.