KHC 198 - Erin Ton

Erin Ton holds over 200 FKTs (Fastest Known Times). In 2023, she returned to the mountains where she first hiked with her family as a child, and summited 57 of Colorado’s Fourteeners in 14 days, smashing the previous record. She stands out on the trails not only for her speed, but also for her attire, often hiking in high heels! Erin and Cam cover highlights from Erin’s unique experiences like hiking mountains in heels, her transition from law school to trail life, and her drive to inspire other women athletes. It also touches on reflections of fulfillment and future plans. Follow Erin: https://www.instagram.com/erin_ton7/ Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/ Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com Timestamps: 00:00:00 – For the Love of the Mountains & FKTs (Fastest Known Time) 00:11:25 – Erin’s First FKT 00:16:48 – FKT for MT. Pisgah 00:19:24 – 209 Recorded FKTs & What Her Goal is 00:23:19 – Michelino Sunseri Grand Teton Federal Misdemeanor 00:28:44 – Grand Teton FKT Goal & FKTs in Oregon 00:33:30 – Hiking the Mountains in Heels 00:38:57 – Erin’s Biggest Goal: 7 Summits Project 00:44:38 – Law School to Trailheads: A Love of Traveling for Work 00:53:18 – Inspiring Others Through Running 00:55:20 – Strength of Women Athletes and Trash Talk in the Sport 00:57:49 – Animal Welfare & Hesitations About Cam 01:03:54 – Learning to Shoot a Bow & Climbing South Sister 01:07:31 – Goals for MT Hood 01:10:43 – Colorado Culebra Peak Speed Record 01:15:27 – Erin’s Sponsors (Teva, Now Foods, Nomadix, COROS) 01:18:00 – F**k, Marry, Kill: FKTs, Hiking in Heels, and Traveling 01:20:43 – Thoughts While Pursuing FKTs 01:22:03 – Pursuing a Lifestyle of Fulfillment 01:26:34 – Is a 50K an Ultra? 01:28:10 – Why FKTs or Races? Any Future Plans for Racing? 01:32:42 – Final Thoughts Thank you to our sponsors: Montana Knife Company: https://www.montanaknifecompany.com/ Use code CAM for 10% off Ketone IQ: https://www.ketone.com/Cam use code CAM for 30% off your first subscription Grizzly Coolers: https://www.grizzlycoolers.com/ use code KEEPHAMMERING for 15% off LMNT: Visit https://drinklmnt.com/cam for a free sample pack with any purchase Sig Sauer: https://www.sigsauer.com/ use code CAM10 for 10% off optics MTN OPS Supplements: https://mtnops.com/ Use code CAM for 20% off & Free Shipping

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:15Cameron Hanes?

  All right. Welcome to Shit Talkers. No, not Shit Talkers Weekly. I'd like to see if you could talk some shit. That'd be fun.

• 0:22Speaker 01

  Bummer. I came here hoping to talk some shit.

• 0:25Cameron Hanes?

  We can still do it. We can still do it. There's no holds barred. But this is a Keep Hammer Collective with Aaron Ton. Great to have you here.

• 0:33Speaker 01

  Thanks for having me, Cam. It's been an incredible couple of days here in Eugene.

• 0:37Cameron Hanes?

  We've had fun, haven't we?

• 0:39Speaker 01

  Yes, I will say I am not used to the 90 plus degree temperatures, though.

• 0:45Cameron Hanes?

  It's, I mean, it's, we're not used to it because generally it's not this hot here even. I mean, or, I mean, we'll get a couple of days like over 100. And I guess it's been warmer lately, but this is warm for us, too. So yeah, you're not alone.

• 0:58Speaker 01

  Good heat training for me.

• 1:00Cameron Hanes?

  It is. So, man, we've done a lot. We've done a lot. But what the, I've had fun doing everything. And we'll get to everything, including shooting the bow. But so people that don't know, and I didn't really know that much about you. I guess Chris is the one who sent me a message. But once I found out and like, hey, what's this girl about? You're a freaking beast. And now I saw it firsthand, just how good you are in the mountains. Tell me, where did that start? Where did you develop this talent or learn about it?

• 1:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I don't come from a traditional athletic background. For the majority of my life, I didn't identify as an athlete at all. And if you had told me that I would be a professional athlete, full time, making a living off of this even six years ago, I would not have believed you.

• 1:55Cameron Hanes?

  What did you think you were going to be doing?

• 1:57Speaker 01

  I thought I would be sitting in an office.

• 1:59Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, I graduated undergrad in 2020 during COVID. And my plan was to take one gap year and then go to law school. And in the meantime, I moved home to Colorado, which is where I'm originally from, and downloaded Strava at the time.

• 2:19Speaker 01

  Was hiking all the fourteeners. I'd see people running up and down them. I'm like, what are they doing? And that's when it clicked. Like, this is an actual sport. There's a whole world to this that I knew nothing about. And so at the, at the time, it was more of just a personal challenge, you know, how many minutes or seconds can I shave off of each of these Strava segments? And that's when I learned what FKTs or fastest known times were.

• 2:44Cameron Hanes?

  And that was in 2020, do you think?

• 2:45Speaker 01

  Uh, I believe I set my first FKT in 2021.

• 2:49Cameron Hanes?

  Okay. Well, so I think we skipped a few things because, so you went from, you're just hiking fourteeners. So tell me, what was the allure there? Like, is that because you grew up there? Everybody just kind of knew of the fourteeners in Colorado? And what is there 58 of them, I think? Or?

• 3:04Speaker 01

  Fifty, anywhere between 53 to 58, depending on who you ask. There's some weird arbitrary rules that there has to be at least 300 feet of prominence from the saddle that connects it to the nearest peak.

• 3:18Cameron Hanes?

  I see. Yeah. Yeah. I see. I know that some, like, one day, me and Courtney did three. So I think that's probably why, where if you don't drop far enough down, this doesn't count as a fourteener, right? Is what they're saying from the saddle? But, yeah, so I get that some of them are close. Yeah, yeah.

• 3:36Speaker 01

  Yeah. But the ironic part, growing up in Colorado, was that I had all of that in my backyard, right? Like, I grew up just east of Boulder, and the flatiron's are right there, um, access to some awesome hikes, but I never took advantage of that growing up because it was just normalized.

• 3:54Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 3:55Speaker 01

  It took me moving out of Colorado to go to college in upstate New York to realize all I had taken for granted, right there.

• 4:04Cameron Hanes?

  That's how it usually works, right?

• 4:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:06Cameron Hanes?

  You don't know what you got till it's gone. And, uh, so, but, but that's interesting. So you got, went back home, had this, you were drawn to the mountains, finally in your, in life, even though you were there the whole time. Um, so you started hiking them. And then when did the speed part start coming in? Because I, I would assume at first, most people, they don't care how long it takes to get up. You just want to bag the fourteener, right? Or were you always pushing? Tell me about your first, first couple. When you're deep in the backcountry and everything depends on your gear, your knife can't be the weak link. That's why I teamed up with Montana Knife Company to build the Keep Hammering Pack Out. What matters to me in all things is performance. The Pack Out is built to do one thing really well,

• 4:51Cameron Hanes?

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• 5:35Cameron Hanes?

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• 6:19Cameron Hanes?

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• 6:54Speaker 01

  I think I was naturally gifted at power hiking and just moving efficiently. So for me, like the steeper and the more vert, the better. And I think the draw was how much space, how much distance can I cover in a condensed period of time? Because it got to the point where I was wanting to check off a couple peaks in a day and I realized the only way to do that was to move quickly through the mountain environments.

• 7:23Cameron Hanes?

  Gotcha. So you've always been like, hey, let's get this done. Because some people go out there, they're there for the day. You know what I mean? Or like speed is, they just want to enjoy it, have a picnic. It's all good. And that's, that's great, too. I mean, because they're in the mountains and nature's amazing. So I have no issue with it. But that's where most people start. And then, but you started with like, hey, let's, let's get these done.

• 7:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I did do some hiking and long distance backpacking while I was in college, too. I co-founded like a backpacking club at Cornell with a friend of mine. And so we'd make weekend trips up to the Adirondack Mountains or the Catskills in upstate New York. And we tried to cover pretty big distances over the course of two days. So I think something in my brain clicked like, oh, it's fun. Like it could be a personal challenge to see how far you can go in a short period of time.

• 8:17Cameron Hanes?

  And like, how far would you get back then? Do you remember?

• 8:21Speaker 01

  I mean, over the course of two days, we'd probably do some hikes that were 30, 40 miles, which seemed like a lot at the time. But now I'm like, I can run that.

• 8:29Cameron Hanes?

  I know. Yeah.

• 8:30Speaker 01

  A few hours.

• 8:31Cameron Hanes?

  You're at the next level now. But yet for most people, that's a long way in the mountains, 30 or 40 miles is, that's an effort.

• 8:40Speaker 01

  Absolutely. Especially upstate New York. I don't think it gets enough credit. It may not have the high altitude of Colorado or peaks out west, but the terrain out there is very rocky, very ruddy, very muddy, like very rugged.

• 8:56Cameron Hanes?

  So do you think these trails like that we've been doing here are better than or is a country more rugged back there or what is it not as high but just is it more the roots I know are hard. We don't have a ton of those. We get up above Timberline. It's just rock basically. So what's how what's the difference between the two?

• 9:16Speaker 01

  Um, out west, we tend to have a lot more switchbacks in our trails. Out east, you pretty much just go straight up the mountain, which personally I prefer, which I think is why I'm drawn to um, mountains that require off-trail navigation.

• 9:33Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 9:33Speaker 01

  Like one of my longer term goals is finishing all the 13ers in Colorado. You know, everybody talks about the 14ers and 14,000 foot peaks, but there's over 613ers in Colorado, which not a lot of people know. And they're not nearly as popular or trafficked. And so they actually test your, you know, route finding and orienteering abilities a lot more.

• 9:57Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that's a lot of 13.

• 9:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:00Cameron Hanes?

  13,000 footers, man.

• 10:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think Chris and I, we've chipped our, our, our way to about somewhere between 250 and 300.

• 10:10Cameron Hanes?

  Really? You got those done. That is, that's a lot of work right there. But or not a lot of work, a lot of living because we love it. It's just like some people would say that's a big effort and it is, but when you love it, it's just what you do.

• 10:24Speaker 01

  Absolutely. And those are my favorite days in the mountains where it's centered around the adventure and we love looking at maps and studying maps and, you know, drawing lines and figuring out, can we connect, you know, five, six 13ers in a day? Like, will this ridgeline go? Will it cliff out? And we just go out there and explore and find out.

• 10:44Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 10:45Speaker 01

  So you're not necessarily focused on the speed or the athletic elements necessarily, but you get that in the process.

• 10:52Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm. It's a, yeah, I mean, I didn't know. I'll just be honest. I didn't know. I think I knew FKT is probably talking about mostly like the AT. I've seen Jeff Garmar did that. I think Tara Dowar did that. So it gets, that gets quite a bit of coverage. Not, it seems like the PCT doesn't get as much for whatever reason, but the AT does. But that's where I was kind of exposed to the FKT world is just following and seeing what people were doing. When did you said your first one was in 2021? So did you just you found one and you're like you saw the time? And you said, I think I can beat that or how did that happen?

• 11:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, um, so my first F K T was on a local peak called Mount Morrison, which sits up just above Golden, Colorado, and it's short, steep, punchy little climb. I think you gain about 2,000 feet and like a mile and a half, two miles.

• 11:53Cameron Hanes?

  Pretty steep.

• 11:53Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, um, yeah, I my the thing about like when you don't have a lot of background, you progress really fast and you can see those incremental changes really fast. Um, and so I think just kind of analyzing my pattern, I realized that, you know, if I just kept putting in the work, I could get there eventually.

• 12:17Cameron Hanes?

  And that first one you got, how much did you get it by?

• 12:21Speaker 01

  Probably not very much. I don't remember off the top of my head. I've actually gone back since then, like one or two years ago, and it makes my initial time look incredibly soft, which is cool to see how far I've I've come.

• 12:35Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, it's crazy. It's a is. So I don't know if we even said it, but F K T stands for fastest known time. And so give me the definition of that, like it's pretty straightforward, but I know there are there are rules or guidelines.

• 12:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, so there's a whole organization, a website

• 12:55Speaker 01

  surrounding F K Ts, and it's meant to be an online database of iconic routes all over the world and they can look very differently, very different, everything ranging from the A T like you mentioned to the Manitou Incline, for example, in Colorado, which is very different than the Appalachian Trail. Um, so what inspires me most are big, high altitude mountains all over the world. How fast can I run up them? How fast can I run up and down them? Um, there's just something that appeals to me about the aesthetic of that. Um, so when I'm out there, I record it on my watch GPS and then you upload those files to the website.

• 13:40Speaker 01

  They have regional editors who specialize in certain regions all over the world and they sift through the data to make sure it's legit. Write a little trip report and that way people can access that website as a tool and a resource.

• 13:53Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 13:54Speaker 01

  Um, if they want to challenge themselves and go fast.

• 13:56Cameron Hanes?

  And it's history, you know, cause it's like, you know, we're humans out here. We're sharing this existence, you know, and there's these places. And I think it is kind of cool to know, like, oh, somebody, cause I know, I know I've been on stuff and then you look at like how, well, I was thinking like, uh, um, the Grand Canyon, like if you look at the FKT for that rim to rim to rim, you're like, I think, does Jim Walmsley have it?

• 14:19Speaker 01

  I believe so, yeah.

• 14:20Cameron Hanes?

  So fast.

• 14:21Speaker 01

  Have you seen the YouTube video of him running it?

• 14:23Cameron Hanes?

  No, is it nuts?

• 14:25Speaker 01

  I, I don't know who was chasing him with the camera, but kudos to him as well. It's, it's, you should look it up.

• 14:31Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 14:32Speaker 01

  Entertaining to watch.

• 14:33Cameron Hanes?

  Right. I, I mean, his strides, he's just like tall.

• 14:36Speaker 01

  He's like a gazelle.

• 14:37Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, gazelle. And you're like, you see, but you see his time, cause I looked up the FKT time for that, cause me and Courtney did that. And I was just like, it's like six hours or something crazy.

• 14:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:48Cameron Hanes?

  Insane.

• 14:48Speaker 01

  Unfathomable.

• 14:49Cameron Hanes?

  So that, that's just fun. So it's like the FKT, it is a great resource and it's just fun to look up.

• 14:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. And they're meant to, um, be primarily like very competitive, historic, iconic routes.

• 15:05Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 15:05Speaker 01

  Um, and routes that anybody would want to repeat, even if they're not necessarily going for speed.

• 15:11Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 15:11Speaker 01

  I do, this is probably where it gets into shit talkers, but I do think. It's getting to the point where it is starting to be a little oversaturated with routes that are probably more conducive for just being like Strava segments.

• 15:25Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 15:25Speaker 01

  And they're more so just like only known times versus like these really competitive aesthetic routes.

• 15:32Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, because it's like they're all lumped in together. So you could have the AT or the or the PCT, which is over 2,000 miles, and that's the same as Piska, which you you tried to get today at 1.4 miles. That's kind of weird, right? Or is Piska fastest on time or is that a Strava segment?

• 15:50Speaker 01

  That's the Strava segment.

• 15:51Cameron Hanes?

  Okay, so that's the difference.

• 15:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:53Cameron Hanes?

  Okay, so that's so that's what you're saying. That makes sense. Like that little hike here that I always do, that doesn't seem like it should be an FKT, right? Is that what you're saying?

• 16:02Speaker 01

  I mean, it just depends on almost the community surrounding it, too. Like, I don't think

• 16:10Speaker 01

  distance necessarily dictates whether it should or shouldn't be an FKT. Um, like the man to incline, that's really short, but it's so, so competitive. And you've had some of the best athletes, Olympians, like, go after it for.

• 16:24Cameron Hanes?

  That's fun, I guess. Yeah, it's fun. Because even like, we've talked about the Strava segments on the track you ran on today, and that's Olympians. So it's like, it's just fun, I think, just to look at where where you fall in comparison. Not you, but all of us. It's just having, you know, some people are into data and it's fun just to pour over it and it's it's cool. Um, so yeah, I was gonna, I wanted to ask about Piska this morning. So I did not know. I mean, the fastest women's time is fricking fast. What was it, 1430?

• 16:56Speaker 01

  1431.

• 16:57Cameron Hanes?

  31. And you got 1444 today?

• 17:00Speaker 01

  That's correct, yeah.

• 17:02Cameron Hanes?

  How did that feel?

• 17:03Speaker 01

  Oh, it's it's a tough climb when you're actually trying hard.

• 17:08Cameron Hanes?

  That's what I said. If it doesn't hurt bad enough, just run a little faster.

• 17:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think I matched her exact splits to the halfway mark, the bench, and then apparently I lost 13 seconds in the upper half.

• 17:22Cameron Hanes?

  Damn. Did you, what would you do different now? What do you think?

• 17:27Speaker 01

  Um, I brought poles with me because in the first half, that's where there are a little bit more of those steep, punchy climbs. And I was surprised I didn't use them all that much, actually. So I think if I were to go back for a second time, I would experiment and see if that makes a difference.

• 17:45Cameron Hanes?

  You should have thrown them in the brush. Yeah, that's, but dude, so my fastest ever is 1448. So you beat that.

• 17:54Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 17:55Cameron Hanes?

  I'm not, not, I'm not acting like I'm anything, but I know how bad that hurt me. And you beat it today. So, I mean, I always like, when, when I saw your screen or the, whatever that was that you, on your story, I was like, I was, I don't know, I don't want to say I was, I wasn't, I was impressed, I wasn't surprised. How about that? Cause I saw you run South Sister, so I knew you're a beast. But, uh, I was still like, pretty impressed. That's a fast time.

• 18:22Speaker 01

  Thank you. Yeah, I have nothing else. I, I beat camp by four seconds.

• 18:26Cameron Hanes?

  You did, you did.

• 18:27Speaker 01

  It's definitely a trail runner's mountain versus like a mountain runner's mountain.

• 18:33Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, for sure.

• 18:34Speaker 01

  And I consider myself in the ladder, ladder category. I'm definitely a mountain runner.

• 18:39Cameron Hanes?

  I know, but with your training today on the track.

• 18:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:43Cameron Hanes?

  So even just that, that training there, I think that would pay off on Piska. Because that is more just pure running, essentially.

• 18:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, we saw how fast Marco was able to cruise up there in 100 degree heat. And he hasn't done much trail before.

• 19:00Cameron Hanes?

  That's another thing is like, I want to run like him. I mean, looks just fluid and looks easy, doesn't it?

• 19:08Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 19:08Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. So that's our goal. I mean, you're closer to him than me, but that's still my goal. But I just can't, everything we've done is just like, it's a whole podcaster story in itself. It's like, we could talk about the South Sister forever. But, um, yeah, so tell me, uh, oh, just before we get too far down the road. How? Okay. I know you told me you had over 200 FKTs and you said you mentioned something like you have 20 more. Is that, did I hear that? Or like, what is that? What does that mean?

• 19:38Speaker 01

  There's, I think, if you were to go to the website today, I have like 203. There's like five or so that I just haven't uploaded yet and gone in and uploaded my files and written a trip report yet. So I think once all is said and done, I'll be closer to 209.

• 19:55Cameron Hanes?

  209. But what did you mean when you said you had 20 more? Is that like, did you say that or did I make that up?

• 20:01Speaker 01

  No. Yeah. Yeah. Good memory. Um, so the highest ranked person on the site is a man and he has 227, I believe, by quantity.

• 20:13Cameron Hanes?

  Gotcha. So to be number one. That's the goal. Okay.

• 20:17Speaker 01

  Yeah. Which isn't really like a competition in and of itself, but it's just cool.

• 20:22Cameron Hanes?

  No, no. Hey, life's competition. Hey, come on. Um, is that guy still getting them?

• 20:28Speaker 01

  Uh, I think so. I believe he's European. So I don't, I don't know too much about him or the routes that he does.

• 20:33Cameron Hanes?

  You just know what he got. Yeah. Well, I know you're so young. I don't even know what you're going to end up with. I, I mean, yeah. Do you have a goal?

• 20:45Speaker 01

  You know, people ask me, Aaron, when are you going to stop? When are you going to be satisfied? And for me, like, I'm not assigning a specific number to it. I'm, it's more so I'm just drawn to doing certain routes and like I got into running for the love of exploration and that's exploring both natural environments and also exploring what my mind and my body can do in those environments.

• 21:09Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 21:10Speaker 01

  And so if I'm inspired by a particular route, then yeah, I don't, I'm going to go after it.

• 21:16Cameron Hanes?

  Go get it. Yeah. Well, it's a, it's, it's strange too, because I've always said that I like to adventure more than I like to race. Like, um, you know, I always just say like, I'm always just training just to be able to keep up with Courtney on an adventure. Racing is like not even on the table, but it's what I like about the adventure is that it's, it's different than a race. Um, and it's kind of like a, uh, I don't know, you're just appreciating nature, but that's what F K Ts are. It's kind of like the in-between between racing and adventuring is both. It's like you're still, you said, if you're inspired by a route, which, you know, in a race, you, they don't care if you're inspired by the route.

• 21:59Cameron Hanes?

  You just run the route, but like when we do these adventures, yeah, we want to care about the country, want to learn more about it. But then also you're tying in this time aspect to it, which is, which is fun. I, I love it.

• 22:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. And there's a lot of places across the states where they can't necessarily hold sanctioned races, like the Grand Canyon, for example. But you still want to know, like, how fast can somebody get across that thing?

• 22:22Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 22:24Speaker 01

  Uh, but there's like different categories too. There's open course and closed course. Um, so closed course is there's a trail and you have to stay on that trail the entire time. Um, to keep it consistent. Um, but for a lot of the mountains that I climb, um, like true mountaineering mountains. Um, you're not on a trail a lot of the time where you're climbing up glaciers. Um, so it, it changes over time and it's just how fast can you get from point A to the summit and back down?

• 22:55Cameron Hanes?

  And which ones, is that open or closed?

• 22:57Speaker 01

  Uh, that would be closed.

• 22:58Cameron Hanes?

  Closed.

• 22:59Speaker 01

  So, yeah, that's where like the, the creativity, um, becomes a factor because you go up there on multiple scouting missions and you're thinking about, okay, if I cut this switchback, would that make it faster and more efficient? And how can I cater this route to play to my strengths? Um, and then, yeah, that brings up like the whole Michelino situation on the Grand Teton too.

• 23:21Cameron Hanes?

  That's what I was gonna ask you about. So it's kind of a tactic, open versus closed, but then there is just shortest distance, point A to point B. What, what was the issue with him? Why was that a problem? Is that because he was going after the one where we're supposed to stay on the trail or what?

• 23:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it's, that was a nuanced case and my bone to pick is more so with F K T. I think that if they were going to go in and retroactively flag his record, they should have, um, made it very explicit on the, the F K T page. Hey, like if you're an athlete who wants to go after this, you, how you have to abide by national park rules, you can't cut the switchbacks, you have to stay on the trail. Which he was kind of. Stuck between a rock and a hard place because historically, a lot of the records did chop that same switchback. It was like an old climbers trail and Killian has like chopped

• 24:17Speaker 01

  it and Anton and so yeah, it puts you in the place of do I violate the National Park rules to run on the same route that everybody else has run on?

• 24:30Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 24:31Speaker 01

  Or do I give myself a disadvantage and take a route that's slightly longer just to keep things copacetic with National Park Service?

• 24:38Cameron Hanes?

  Well, so who turned him in or whatever and why? What was that about?

• 24:42Speaker 01

  I think he kind of turned himself in with his Strava segment. I mean, I like the park rangers looked at it.

• 24:49Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, I see.

• 24:50Speaker 01

  It was very visible where he chopped it.

• 24:52Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, but but the other runners had done that too, but they must not have paid attention at that time or what?

• 24:59Speaker 01

  Or just.

• 24:59Cameron Hanes?

  The rangers?

• 25:00Speaker 01

  It wasn't enforced as much. I think, yeah, for some reason, they really latched on to Michelino and wanted to blow that up and make an example out of him.

• 25:10Cameron Hanes?

  I know all about that. So, yeah.

• 25:14Speaker 01

  You don't say.

• 25:15Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, so I want to have Michelino on here too, because how sick is that to be president or I mean pardoned by the president over something like trail running? That's nuts. That's nuts. I want to hear, I don't really know how that all went down, but uh, yeah, a lot of drama in the trail running scene these days.

• 25:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, I do think FKT is experiencing growing pains and ironing out some of these finer details going forward because they're, you know, routes change over time.

• 25:48Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 25:49Speaker 01

  Even Mount Elbert, for example, in Colorado, I have the women's round trip FKT on that one, but they've recently been doing some trail work on it. And so the old route that I took up and down it is different than the new route. So in theory, a woman could come in and run it slower than I did and claim the FKT.

• 26:09Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, right. Yeah, because it's a different route.

• 26:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:14Speaker 01

  But like just purely speaking, who's the fastest, you know, up and down the Grand Teton, it's McLean. Who's the fastest woman to run up and down Elbert? It's me. So

• 26:22Cameron Hanes?

  Nice.

• 26:23Speaker 01

  I think especially since FKT is owned by Outside Magazine, like a corporation, they're just trying to save face, which I get, but.

• 26:30Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. I mean, I think Ultra is going through growing pains right now, too. So it's like, we, we have these grassroots things that we love just because it's our passion. And then all of a sudden it gets muddied up with, I don't know, opinions and different things. And, and then once, it's always, people always point to this, I don't know if this is an issue, but once money gets involved, like sponsorship athletes, or like in Ultra, you know, it's, these companies are paying a lot to, to sponsor a race and races are charging quite a bit for these big, big, um, multi-day things. So yeah, it's like, anything that gets popular, there's going to be some, some growing pains. But

• 27:12Cameron Hanes?

  I did, okay, that reminded me, um, could you get the Grand Teton one, do you think? Out in the mountains, there's no room for weak gear. When I'm packing out meat in the heat, or loading up for a long range training trip, I need a cooler that holds the line every time. That's why I use Grizzly coolers. These things are bear proof, rugged as hell, and keep ice locked in for days, literally. I've had coolers on the trail, baking in the sun, still holding ice after hauling out elk quarters. That's performance you can count on. Whether you're running deep in the backcountry or just stacking meat for the weekend, Grizzly is built for that grind. Element was created by former research biochemist

• 27:56Cameron Hanes?

  Rob Wolf and has enough sodium, potassium, and magnesium to move the needle and get you feeling and performing your best. Plus, it has zero sugar, artificial colors, or other dodgy ingredients to derail your low carb lifestyle. That's why Element is my go-to electrolyte drink and trusted by many of the world's leading health experts and athletes, including Team USA Weightlifting, coaches, health practitioners, and Team

• 28:23Cameron Hanes?

  Across professional collegiate and high school sports leagues. Element is offering listeners of the podcast a free element sample pack with any purchase at www.drinklmnt.com backslash cam. Also try new element sparkling, a bold 16 ounce can of sparkling electrolyte water.

• 28:44Speaker 01

  It's on my to do list.

• 28:45Cameron Hanes?

  Is it?

• 28:46Speaker 01

  I don't think it's gonna happen this summer, just because I have some other objectives. On on the schedule, but yeah, I climbed it once before and it's such an.

• 28:59Cameron Hanes?

  Is it hard?

• 29:00Speaker 01

  Um, it's low fifth class scrambling.

• 29:03Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 29:03Speaker 01

  On the the standard route up it. It's nothing crazy technical, but certainly a place where if you fuck up and make one one wrong step like you're gonna, you're gonna die and you're gonna think about your death for a few seconds before.

• 29:19Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, so it's real. It's a real mountain. Yeah, yeah, that's good. It's what is the FKT? Do you know?

• 29:25Speaker 01

  Um, for women, it actually had a lot of action last summer. Um, I believe it's three 45 round trip.

• 29:34Cameron Hanes?

  And how many miles?

• 29:36Speaker 01

  Uh, I want to say like 13, 14, 7,000 feet of climbing.

• 29:40Cameron Hanes?

  Woo.

• 29:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:41Cameron Hanes?

  That's legit, dude. And 13 miles? Wow. What do we do in the South Sister? We did five in, that's like six miles, right? 5,000.

• 29:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, it sounds right. Yeah.

• 29:54Cameron Hanes?

  That's fun.

• 29:56Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. What'd you think of the of the South Sister? But you've, I mean, you've done, how many have you done here in Oregon now on this trip?

• 30:03Speaker 01

  Uh, I've actually got my first FKTs in Oregon on this trip.

• 30:09Speaker 01

  Couple down in Southern Oregon. Wilson, McLaughlin.

• 30:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're slowly chipping away at some of the volcanoes, Broken Tops, South Sister.

• 30:20Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 30:21Speaker 01

  Now with you.

• 30:21Cameron Hanes?

  And now, uh, yeah, just keep hitting the Cascades, huh?

• 30:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:25Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, it's, uh, it's awesome.

• 30:28Speaker 01

  Hoping to target Mount Hood and Rainier next.

• 30:31Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, man. Yeah, those are legit. I can't wait to follow along on that. That's gonna be sick. But yeah, it's fun. Like, I had never done it and I was just looking at that time that, that we had to go for. I'm like, oh, we got that. But then, I mean, it's, it's, it got, I mean, I wasn't hurting too bad, but you definitely gotta push. Have to push for sure.

• 30:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:53Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, it's, uh, it was, it was fun though.

• 30:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, and that's why I think you made the comment that like, oh, she goes pretty hot out of the game.

• 31:00Cameron Hanes?

  I know.

• 31:00Speaker 01

  I like to build up that cushion.

• 31:03Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 31:03Speaker 01

  Which has bit me in the ass before, because then if it's a longer effort and I go out way too hard, then I just can't sustain that and I blow up.

• 31:12Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 31:12Speaker 01

  Um, but for shorter stuff like that, mentally, it's nice knowing you have a little bit of time in the bank.

• 31:18Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, no, we got to the top and we had like 300 more feet to gain and we had, I can't remember, it was 20 minutes or something like that. And but then we had to run across the top because the true summit is on the other side of the, of the mountain. So you, feels like you're there, but you're not there yet. So we got a little more work, but we still, still got it by like nine minutes. It was just fun just being, I told James, I said, I just wanted to do it with you, just like to see what it takes to get an FKT. Cause I'd never been with anybody going for one, or like how fast you have to go, or how hard it was, or how much you cared about, or like watching splits or seeing. So I just was like, cool, this is gonna be fun just to see how you do it.

• 31:59Cameron Hanes?

  And I was surprised because you started Devil's Lake there at the bottom on the highway and, uh, I didn't know how how fast you're gonna take off like I'm old, so it takes me a little bit to get going. I don't know if I can even get going to your speed, but.

• 32:12Speaker 01

  Well, you run a way faster marathon than I could even imagine. So I was actually nervous deep down inside. I'm like, man, I hope I don't disappoint.

• 32:21Cameron Hanes?

  I know you were you were so tough, but uh, yeah, you went off pretty, I thought, pretty fast. And I was just like, God, just trying to hang on. And then we got up to the bench. And then it's kind of a sort of flat, kind of rolly over to the base of the hill of the mountain. And then it's just kind of a slog up.

• 32:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:40Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. She got pushed.

• 32:41Speaker 01

  That plateau area got pretty windy, too.

• 32:43Cameron Hanes?

  It did. It did. It got windy. We, it was weird because the plateau is windy, but the summit wasn't. I mean, summit was beautiful and I think we're the only ones out there for a little while.

• 32:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:56Cameron Hanes?

  Which on a Sunday, it's South Sister. That's rare.

• 32:59Speaker 01

  Yeah. And initially I had in the back of my mind that we might go for the round trip, which I'm really glad we didn't because just up there and soaking in the the summit views and the blue skies with everybody all around. It was.

• 33:13Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 33:13Speaker 01

  It was awesome.

• 33:14Cameron Hanes?

  Just chilling out.

• 33:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:16Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, not in a big hurry to, because yeah, if you go for the round trip, you can't really appreciate how pretty it is.

• 33:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, just touch the summit and flip around.

• 33:24Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Um, all right. So we got that one, but that's cool. So tell me about this. Like this is you are, this reminds me of uh, Tru wearing his jeans, like a little bit, uh, just people say, oh, it's a gimmick or this or that. It's just like, what are you talking about it? You're talking about it and so whatever. Um, but so Tru ran marathon in jeans and then you did all the Nolan's 14 in high heels, right?

• 33:50Speaker 01

  So I didn't do, not the Nolan's line. I've done it multiple times before and I have a long history with Nolan's.

• 33:56Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 33:56Speaker 01

  Um, but I, so my long-term goal is to climb every 14er in Colorado in high heels.

• 34:03Cameron Hanes?

  Really?

• 34:03Speaker 01

  I've done 29 14ers in them thus far.

• 34:08Cameron Hanes?

  What's the hardest part of it?

• 34:10Speaker 01

  Uh, you know, people always ask about rolling my ankles and I never do that. I think they've actually helped build up ankle stability and strength in a weird way. It's more so um just loose scree and boulder hopping, stubbing my toes and blisters. So I will have to bandage or tape up my, my heels.

• 34:33Cameron Hanes?

  Have you, I thought you'd have closed toed. Like you, you don't like that, like over open toed?

• 34:41Speaker 01

  Uh, I've never tried that before. I feel like most of the closed toed heels tend to be pretty pointy and so they just shove your toes.

• 34:51Cameron Hanes?

  For sure. Yeah, that's true.

• 34:52Speaker 01

  More bunions than I already have.

• 34:54Cameron Hanes?

  That's true. Yeah. I don't, yeah, the guys who like the feet pictures, I don't know if they wanna, you might not be their clientele.

• 35:02Speaker 01

  Well, I've jumped, there's probably a market for that.

• 35:04Cameron Hanes?

  Probably is, there's so many weird fuckers out there.

• 35:08Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, um, so tell me about, tell me about these though. I'm like, tell me about the details of that. Who made those and why?

• 35:15Speaker 01

  I have actually never taken this specific pair out yet. This was made by one of my sponsors, Teva, and you may have heard of them as like the sandal company. And um, when they first reached out to me a couple of years ago about becoming an athlete, I was like, you want me to run in the mountains on really technical terrain and sandals? But they're trying to grow their um, trail running and mountain running line of shoes. So that's part of my job as an athlete for them is they send me prototypes. I take them out into the field, test them out, tell them what works and what doesn't work. Um, so yeah, they really latched on to this, this project and they were excited about it, so.

• 36:01Cameron Hanes?

  It's got the mounds on there?

• 36:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, cause currently the, the pair of heels I've been wearing are just cheap heels from like Target. There's nothing on the bottom.

• 36:11Cameron Hanes?

  No Vibram sole like these?

• 36:12Speaker 01

  But I've, I've climbed some of the more technical fourteeners in heels, including Capitol Peak, which has like this infamous knife's edge feature where there's a few thousand feet of exposure on either side and.

• 36:25Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I'd want a little grip if I was you on that one.

• 36:28Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 36:28Cameron Hanes?

  But yeah, these, these will be good. So you've, have you had any like? Have you had any instances where you're like, why am I doing this? I'm gonna like roll your ankle. You said your ankles are tough, but or close calls like slipping? And you've been like, this is stupid. Have you had any like that? Or has it been like successes?

• 36:48Speaker 01

  Not yet, thankfully. Knock on wood. Um, yeah, I think if I felt like it was interfering with my running and my like actual athletic career, I wouldn't do it.

• 37:00Cameron Hanes?

  It has to interfere. You can't be just as fast in these as you are in shoes. Are you?

• 37:04Speaker 01

  It's not running up in these. It's more so just my, my rest days where I want to hike at the pace of an average person.

• 37:12Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, so you're not getting FKTs in these?

• 37:14Speaker 01

  No.

• 37:14Cameron Hanes?

  Right. Gotcha. Okay. Yeah.

• 37:16Speaker 01

  Unless there's a separate FKT category for, for just the heels.

• 37:20Cameron Hanes?

  We got, we got Gideon's FKT category. You could wear these in your non-binary thing. Couldn't you?

• 37:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, that would give me the certification.

• 37:32Speaker 01

  Maybe Truett needs to try the heels and the jeans.

• 37:36Cameron Hanes?

  That's, or maybe just really short cutoffs in these. Then James, that'd be James style right there.

• 37:43Speaker 01

  I like where your mind is going.

• 37:46Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, no, I don't know. But yeah, it's cool because obviously like I looked at your page. And so by design, but I look at your page. What I noticed is a high heel post. You know what I mean? So it works. It draws people in. Then we're like, what's this girl up to? What she's doing in the mountains with high heels? And then they can find out more about you. What, you know, what you're interested in, what you stand for, what you believe in. And the high heels got them there. So I think that's cool, you know?

• 38:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. It's always interesting, uh, hearing like people I meet on the trail who recognize me, like where they found me from, if it was the heels or the FKTs and.

• 38:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:30Cameron Hanes?

  What's the breakdown? How is it more heels or FKTs?

• 38:34Speaker 01

  In the beginning, it was definitely the heels. As time was progressing, it's more so.

• 38:40Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 38:41Speaker 01

  The actual athletic.

• 38:42Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, no, you're, you're good. You're, I, I love it. But, uh, yeah. So whatever it takes to get them, to get them there, get them on your page. Sweet. Then they can find out, hey, you're doing cool stuff and you're badass. And, um, so the, the goal here in Oregon, you got a couple of big ones, uh, hood, rainier. What's like the, what's like the biggest ticket item? Like, what's your biggest goal? Would you say? Is it Everest?

• 39:11Speaker 01

  Uh, so, speaking of Everest, um.

• 39:14Cameron Hanes?

  Or is that a secret? We can take that out, too, if we have to.

• 39:17Speaker 01

  No, I, I've, open book. Um, so in January, I went down to South America, to kick off my seven summits project.

• 39:30Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 39:30Speaker 01

  So over the next two to three years, I'm hoping to set the women's records on each of the seven summits. Uh, for those who don't know, it's the highest peak on each of the seven continents. So.

• 39:41Cameron Hanes?

  And you, you've done a couple already?

• 39:42Speaker 01

  I did Atacagüa in January, so it's almost 23,000 feet tall or 7,000 meters.

• 39:50Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 39:50Speaker 01

  Uh, it's in Argentina.

• 39:52Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, nice.

• 39:52Speaker 01

  And then in August, I'll go to Africa and go after the Kilimanjaro speed record.

• 39:57Cameron Hanes?

  How, how aggressive is that one?

• 40:01Speaker 01

  Um, not as aggressive as it should be, in my opinion.

• 40:06Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, okay.

• 40:07Speaker 01

  There's still a lot of meat on the bone.

• 40:09Cameron Hanes?

  Gotcha.

• 40:10Speaker 01

  You start looking at some of these records on these higher altitude peaks and there's a pretty wide margin between the men's and the women's times, uh, just because I don't think as many women are competing in this space.

• 40:22Cameron Hanes?

  Right, yeah.

• 40:23Speaker 01

  Um, so in some cases, it's almost double. I think, so Kilimanjaro is about a marathon round trip with 14,000 feet of climbing. You go all the way up to almost 20,000 feet. Um, the men's current record, my friend Tyler Andrews, he just got the Everest oxygen record. I think he did it in like six thirty round trip, whereas the woman's record is closer like ten thirty.

• 40:46Cameron Hanes?

  Okay, yeah.

• 40:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:48Cameron Hanes?

  So you you're at least eight hours, probably. I mean, maybe faster, but

• 40:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:54Cameron Hanes?

  Quite a bit faster than the existing then. So that that's a good one. Yeah, I mean, you said you're doing that. Was that July or August?

• 41:01Speaker 01

  That'll be August.

• 41:02Cameron Hanes?

  August, yeah. Cause I and you said I should go and that would be super fun, but uh, yeah. Um, that so that's on and what is that continent? That's Africa, right? And then our what's Argentina? What continent is that? South America?

• 41:18Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 41:18Cameron Hanes?

  And then so tell me the other peaks and so it's Denali here, right?

• 41:22Speaker 01

  Yep, that's the highest peak in North America. It's twenty thousand feet and it's a hard one. Um, not necessarily because of the elevation, like twenty thousand feet is pretty reasonable compared to climbing Everest, twenty nine thousand feet without oxygen. Um, but just the elements on Denali are real. Um, you know, you have to haul your own sled up to to base camp at like fourteen thousand feet from where you get dropped off at seven thousand feet, I believe. And so I'll probably do that, scout the mountain and then you have to come all the way back down to seven thousand feet. And that's where the record starts.

• 41:56Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, really?

• 41:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:57Cameron Hanes?

  Okay. Um, okay, then so that's then what else? Tell me the other ones.

• 42:03Speaker 01

  Um, so we got Denali, Akankawa in Antarctica. It's Mount Vinson. Um, and the crux of that one is definitely the financials.

• 42:13Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, yeah.

• 42:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, just the logistics of getting down there. Um, it's it'll be like fifty thousand dollars minimum for me. And then we're talking, you know, I want to have a camera person or a film crew out there. It's at least double.

• 42:26Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 42:27Speaker 01

  Um, and then so we got Kilimanjaro. Um, Asia is obviously Everest. Um, for Australia and the Indonesian continent, it's one called Karstens Pyramid. Um, and it's like sixteen thousand feet. Um, I think the hardest part of that one is navigating the local geopolitical

• 42:49Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 42:49Speaker 01

  situation and just getting

• 42:51Cameron Hanes?

  A little unstable or what?

• 42:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, there's like a lot of local tribes down there and um they want, you know, the money to go to them directly. Understandably so. Um, so I think they're a bit hesitant with foreign companies, you know, coming in, bringing clients.

• 43:07Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 43:07Speaker 01

  Peak.

• 43:08Cameron Hanes?

  I got you.

• 43:08Speaker 01

  So it's more so just getting access and being allowed to

• 43:11Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, I see. Got to convince them that's a good idea.

• 43:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:14Cameron Hanes?

  To let you do it. Yeah. Uh, was that seven? Was that all of them?

• 43:18Speaker 01

  Uh, the only one I didn't mention was Elbrus. And again, like Russia.

• 43:22Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, I didn't even know where the hell that was.

• 43:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:24Cameron Hanes?

  Russia. How high is it?

• 43:26Speaker 01

  Oh, gosh, I forget. I think it's sixteen thousand feet.

• 43:31Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 43:32Speaker 01

  The top of my head. Yeah.

• 43:33Cameron Hanes?

  Is that a hard one to get to also because of the, yeah, situation? Hmm.

• 43:38Speaker 01

  Yeah. So with a lot of these, it's not even necessarily like the physical abilities that are the biggest challenge.

• 43:45Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. I think on some of these too, it's, it's like for the women, they just can't go by themselves and do it. You know, like a guy conceivably could, but like you wouldn't, you wouldn't want to put a woman in that situation. So it's like that ma- that's a barrier of entry because some of those places are a little wild. I mean, a little, you know, whatever. Um.

• 44:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, for Akankagua, I was able to go down there entirely solo and do that one. But I was working with an expedition company um who had also worked with previous record holders on that one. So they kind of understood, you know, what my intentions were, what I wanted to do, how to structure it.

• 44:23Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that, that's handy. Do you start to say something?

• 44:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, Elbrus is eighteen five.

• 44:28Speaker 01

  Eighteen.

• 44:29Cameron Hanes?

  Eighteen five. Thanks. Fact check.

• 44:34Cameron Hanes?

  Um, yeah, that's, oh, how, but, okay, so then think about this. How sick is it that you get to travel the world and do cool shot, cool shit?

• 44:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, there, um, and there's not one day where I take it for granted. Like, I always knew that I wanted to travel in my future, but I never knew how that would come to fruition. Yeah. Like, growing up, like, we go on a family vacation, you know, once or twice a year, typically to the beach. And like, that was something you looked forward to. But now it's like, this is a part of my job. Like, how fucking cool is that? I get to like-

• 45:07Cameron Hanes?

  Turned it into a job.

• 45:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:09Cameron Hanes?

  That's, and, and this is like a job, probably like you created this job, right? I mean, how many other paid female F K T runners are there? Or climbers or mountaineers are there besides you? There's probably not many.

• 45:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, there's a number of climbers and mountaineers, but I like to, you know, occupy the space kind of in between running.

• 45:30Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 45:31Speaker 01

  Mountaineering.

• 45:32Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 45:32Speaker 01

  I think as we progress, the world of like speed mountaineering is only gonna grow. But, I mean, off the top of my head, there aren't a lot of other people, especially women, who are making, you know, full-time living off of what I'm doing. You know, most of them also do racing and ultra marathons and-

• 45:51Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, for sure. And how did, how did this come to, come to be? I mean, you said you wanted to travel. When did you, when did you figure out you could make money doing it? And it could be a job?

• 46:02Speaker 01

  I didn't know that it was gonna work out initially. And that was, that was the gamble, uh, where I had to roll the dice. You know, I went, for the majority of my life, I was very studious, focused on academics, like, get into an Ivy League school. I did that, and then I was there, it was like little fish, big pond. So I had to find some other way to differentiate myself. Um, but yeah, I mean, the first couple of years, you know, where I was intending on going to law school, it was a grind and a hustle. And I was like, living in the back of my car, you know, I did the whole car camping thing. And I just drive and camp at the trailhead and run mountains every single day, like a true dirtbag, you know, only scraping by and, you know, a few thousand dollars a year.

• 46:47Speaker 01

  I picked up a part-time job at a local running shop, shout out BP Run Co.

• 46:52Cameron Hanes?

  Or Golden?

• 46:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:53Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 46:54Speaker 01

  Local run shop, very community oriented. Um, that's where I learned a lot about trail running.

• 47:01Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 47:01Speaker 01

  Um, but yeah, it was only after I did, um, I did a rim to rim to rim to rim to rim of the Grand Canyon in Arizona.

• 47:13Speaker 01

  It was just shy of a hundred miles and I tagged, um, the brand of the shoes that I was wearing in a post and they later reached out and was like, how would you consider joining our athlete team? And I think that was, um, solidification, like, okay, I do have what it takes to make a future in this sport.

• 47:33Cameron Hanes?

  One of the hardest parts of hunting is glassing big country to find animals you know are there. That's why I run Sig Sauer Zulu Imaging Stabilizing Binoculars when I'm covering a lot of ground and need to see everything. These binos are a complete game changer. After long climbs, when your heart rate's up and your hands aren't steady, shaky glass makes it hard to stay locked in. With image stabilization, everything settles down. You can slow the process, really pick apart the country and catch movement you'd normally miss. I've found more animals and saved a ton of time because of these binos. I actually just talked about how impressive this technology is on the most recent episode of the Joe Rogan Experience.

• 48:18Cameron Hanes?

  Once you use stabilized glass, it's hard to go back. It gives you a real advantage when you're hunting big, open terrain. And here's the rare part, optics companies almost never offer discounts, but Sig is giving listeners of this podcast 10% Just use code CAM at checkout. So if you're serious about glassing and want the same edge I've had the past couple of seasons, head to sigsauer.com, grab a pair of Zulu binos and use code CAM for 10% off. If you haven't already noticed, I'm pretty into routine. I lift, run and shoot every day and I usually stick to three meals. Big portions, elk meat and potatoes kind of guy. I'm not someone who's constantly fueling throughout the day unless it's coffee

• 49:02Cameron Hanes?

  or an energy drink, and that's just how I've always operated. But since Mountain Ops sent me their new big sticks, I found myself reaching for something between meals a lot more. I started throwing a couple in my truck to have after a long run at Piska or Spencer's, and I'll be honest, they actually taste pretty good, which isn't something I usually say about meat sticks. They're made with whole muscle beef and pork, so the texture and flavor feel like real food, not something overly processed. Each stick has 20 grams of protein and it's a big one at 2.2 ounces. So when you've been putting in miles, climbing and grinding all day, it actually gives you something back. It's not just a quick bite. It's real fuel that holds you over and helps you recover.

• 49:47Cameron Hanes?

  I still eat the same way I always have and nothing is replacing that. But when I need something quick that still lines up with how I live and train, this is what I reach for. Mountain Ops Big Stick. Get 20% off today using code CAM at mountainops.com. I could imagine like, cause I think about my kids, I don't know what your parents are like, but when the goal was to be a lawyer and that then instead you're living in your car.

• 50:16Cameron Hanes?

  As a dirt, as we call it dirtbag, and just running mountains, how was that, was that accepted? Was everybody like, yeah, that sounds like a great idea? Or what was it?

• 50:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, I'm fortunate to have very supportive parents. That being said, I do think there was some hesitation initially, you know, just always being asked like, hey, Aaron, are you thinking about law school? Like how's studying for the LSATs going? But yeah.

• 50:46Cameron Hanes?

  Would you just lie for a while and just say, good, yeah, I'm excited?

• 50:52Speaker 01

  But no, my, my parents are super proud of me and what I do now. And yeah, it's, it's truly a dream.

• 50:59Cameron Hanes?

  So you said you wanted to be a lawyer or law school. Was, what was your major to like your bachelor's?

• 51:06Speaker 01

  Uh, I studied government and got a minor in anthropology.

• 51:11Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, nice anthropology. I liked that class too. That was like, it seemed like I liked it. I don't know. I was never that smart, but.

• 51:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was taking a bunch of anthropology classes for some of my, um, like elective credits and found that I actually loved those classes and enjoyed them way more than my government classes.

• 51:30Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 51:31Speaker 01

  It was kind of a happy accident.

• 51:33Cameron Hanes?

  So the government, how come government? What was the interest there?

• 51:36Speaker 01

  Uh, just going to law school. It was a very, you know, linear path. It made sense to study government, political science before going in that direction.

• 51:44Cameron Hanes?

  And then did you want to be like a lawyer in DC or something? What was your, what was the, like, if you had a vision, what was that?

• 51:52Speaker 01

  Uh, I don't, I didn't have a particular location picked out. Um, but I was, I wasn't opposed to the city life, which like reflecting back on now is just crazy. I would go nuts in a big city.

• 52:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I was interested in like environmental law, animal welfare, that kind of stuff. And, um, I always wanted to make a difference in the world and give back and, you know, and that can get very crippling over the time, over time with, you know, you just feel like you have the weight of the world on your shoulders. And so.

• 52:29Cameron Hanes?

  So many people need help.

• 52:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:30Cameron Hanes?

  You know, it's like, so if you're like, I want to help people. It's overwhelming. There's just like, there's, there's not enough of you to help everyone. So I get that. Yeah.

• 52:40Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I think. You know, I was younger, I was bright eyed and bushy tailed, but eventually you get to the point where you realize you have to help yourself first and you have to be in a good mental headspace first before you can help others. And so for me, you know, hiking, running, being alone in the mountains, that was my own time to recharge. And so initially, I think it came from more just like internal kind of selfish reasons. But I don't think that way anymore. And I've now realized by being immersed in this world that you can make a difference through running.

• 53:19Cameron Hanes?

  So how are you impacting others through running now?

• 53:22Speaker 01

  I hope I'm inspiring others to rethink what life has to look like.

• 53:29Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 53:30Speaker 01

  I think we're prescribed this very linear path, you know, go to college, get a good job, climb the ladder, you know, white picket fence, kids, all that. And we're blessed to have free will and might as well take advantage of that. Like it's a big, wide world out there. There's so much to see and do, like push that comfort zone.

• 53:54Cameron Hanes?

  And inspire others to do the same is kind of what you're saying?

• 53:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, give back.

• 53:59Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, it's a, I can understand that because if my goal was to be a bow hunter, sponsored bow hunter, people would be like, and it was, people was like, what? That's not a thing. So wasn't a thing. Now it's a thing, you know? So and I get to your point to where now I hope other young guys watch my trajectory and like, okay, well, maybe I could do something similar. So for young women, seeing you out there and it's just like your attitude, your smile, having fun out there. It, to me, it feels like it gives permission to young women to be like, I don't have to like just follow the, you know, stay in the path everybody takes and

• 54:44Cameron Hanes?

  or path of least resistance, or just like the whatever's the expect, live up to expectations.

• 54:49Speaker 01

  The status quo.

• 54:50Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, you can just be like, you know what, maybe I'm just gonna do something that strikes me and moves me and see if it maybe moves others. That's what it feels like to me. And you're, you're like made for it because it's like your face and your smile and your big, bright eyes. It's like people like see you and they're like, I want, I want to find out more about her. You know what I mean? You got this inviting thing. So I think you can definitely impact young women out there and it's, it's incredible. I love seeing it. And then also I love seeing what a beast you are because yeah, it's like you could, that's what I always say about I have these, these older girls on

• 55:28Cameron Hanes?

  here and they will trick you and you will trick people because not like maliciously, but guys are always about this ego. I'm gonna beat you. No, you're not. I'm gonna kick your ass. No. But girls are always like so sweet and cool. And then you get them in the mountains and they crush you. But they're acting nice. Guys, guys will like, they want to, they want you to know that they're better than you. But it's like, like I talk about with Courtney or Kat or Sally or you. And it's just like, it's, it's like so deceiving because you're so nice, but then so tough. You know, it's just like, it's, I just love it. It's my favorite part of it. So you're doing great.

• 56:11Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, I can, I'm like, don't get me wrong. I'm very competitive, like with FKTs. If there's a time that I want to be like, I'm going into it like wanting

• 56:22Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 56:23Speaker 01

  to like kick the, the prior record holder's ass.

• 56:26Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, well.

• 56:27Speaker 01

  Um, and I, yeah, I do think there is like this expectation within endurance sport that, you know, women have to be, you know, very, very kind and put on a pretty face.

• 56:37Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 56:38Speaker 01

  I don't know if that's, like if the, you mentioned a list of women, like if that just comes from like societal and cultural norms that are imposed.

• 56:47Cameron Hanes?

  Expectations, kind of.

• 56:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, we've just learned that behavior over time.

• 56:51Cameron Hanes?

  Killed a spider, sorry.

• 56:53Speaker 01

  But yeah, it's.

• 56:54Cameron Hanes?

  Murder spider.

• 56:56Speaker 01

  Let's bring some more trash talking into

• 56:58Cameron Hanes?

  I know. Well, I remember there were, God, I think that Sabrina Stanley, I think somebody like maybe it's like last year, year before, but I thought they were saying she how maybe it was the OnlyFans thing. Now I can't remember what it was, but it's not very often that that women are outside of like that expectation thing. You know what I mean? Like, I would love if I love confidence, you know, and normally is the guys barely have permission to be cocky, you know, it's like you, you, they, guys still get judged for talking shit, but women never do it. I would love, I would love to see it. So let's hear it. Who are you going to talk? Like, let's talk shit on somebody. Who do we hate? No.

• 57:45Cameron Hanes?

  Let me think. Oh, while we think of that, so you talked about animal welfare, talking about all this stuff, helping animals. And then you're here.

• 57:58Speaker 01

  I know.

• 58:00Cameron Hanes?

  Dun, dun, dun.

• 58:01Speaker 01

  Campaigns himself.

• 58:02Cameron Hanes?

  That is, that, I can't believe you're sitting here across from me. It's, that's disgusting. No, so what, did you have reservations about coming? I'm a big bow hunter. You, you love animals. Now you know I love animals too, probably. It's just, we come from different directions, but we love the same thing. Animals, mountains, right? So tell me about how this, if you had reservations or how this came to be.

• 58:25Speaker 01

  Yeah. In all honesty, I definitely had my hesitations, uh, coming here and meeting you. Like, if you had told me, you know, a few years ago, that I'd be sitting here, I would have not believed you. I mean, I was literally like a card carrying member of like the animal rights and the vegan clubs at my college. Um, but you know, like I was mentioning to you, it's just this world and the society that we live in are way too polarized. And it doesn't leave a lot of room for productive conversation. Like, would it have been much easier for me to go on a podcast like Ritual, for example? Where I know who's playing, but absolutely.

• 59:09Speaker 01

  But like, coming here, I'm hoping to like, challenge other people's way of thinking and vice versa. Like, you've also given me a brief glimpse into your life and it's, you know, opened my minded.

• 59:25Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 59:25Speaker 01

  Opened my mind way more than it was.

• 59:27Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, it's, it's, I don't know what it is, but I don't feel, and I'm not, I don't want to be the more tribalism stuff. But I don't see a lot of hunters, or maybe just hunters I'm around, but like, talk shit to, about vegans. I don't, I'm sure there are some, I'm sure I have before, but uh, um, it's just, I think it's just great that, cause I think what you said, like initially, I think Chris kinda got the connection going. But then you said something like, you're a vegan and you know, whatever, and is that, it's a lot different lifestyle than what, what I lead. Is what, I think what the message was, and I think I just said like, you're a badass and I don't give a fuck what you eat.

• 1:00:10Cameron Hanes?

  It's like, I just want to talk and find out more about you because I don't care. I just wanna, I just wanna learn about different types of people and, and that's it. I mean, I just wanna learn what motivates you and what makes you special. And I don't care where people come from, or what their upbringing was, or even what they believe in at this time. I do care about what you believe in at this time, but it doesn't affect anything. I just wanna, I think we can learn and grow from anybody.

• 1:00:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:40Cameron Hanes?

  And I learn and grow, to be honest, from people. Unlike me, if everybody I hung around was just like me, that would suck. That'd be boring. I want to be around different people. It's what it it it keeps me hungry to learn and hungry is like energized. And it's like, I I love being around the complete opposite of me. And so I'm thankful you're here. I'm not saying you're complete opposite of me, but I just I just love different people.

• 1:01:10Speaker 01

  No, I'm I'm thankful to be here and I I really admire that characteristic of you. You know, like, you're just curious. You can tell you're a curious person and you want to push yourself, challenge yourself and and grow.

• 1:01:24Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, because I've even seen like on some of your posts of us, there are people. You know, it's just kind of the way it goes. It's a, yeah. But your writing, and I think Chris wrote some really good stuff, too. It's like, we have to get, I don't know if we need to give people permission to not be dickheads. But to be like, hey, no, we're, yes, we are different and it's okay. We don't have to make this li- line in the sa- stand or sand and plant this flag and say, yeah, you're not welcome here. And so your writings, Chris's comments and writings, and hopefully my my approach, gives people per- permission to be like, yeah, it's okay.

• 1:02:09Speaker 01

  Well, and if you actually meet a person and dig a little deeper, you find that there's a lot more in common than there is different. And that's something I try and keep in mind and remind myself is that like, everybody thinks that they're making the right decisions. Like, I like to believe, you know, most people are good hearted and but we all come from different backgrounds and experiences and those guide our paths and the decisions that we make.

• 1:02:36Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:36Speaker 01

  You know, everybody just, you know, cares for their family and wants to do good for their neighbors and. Um, yeah, we all have different worldviews.

• 1:02:45Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:45Speaker 01

  And sometimes they clash.

• 1:02:47Cameron Hanes?

  For sure.

• 1:02:47Speaker 01

  But if we don't have these conversations, nothing's ever gonna be done about it.

• 1:02:51Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, you you remind me a little bit of Harvey Lewis. He's like a backyard ultra runner. He's just a stud, but he's vegan also. And he just, people were, he wanted me to come. He's invited me to come do the Mid States Mile, which is in Tennessee. It's like you do a mile every 20 minutes. It's The Last Man Standing, just a different format. And he's just like, want, sent me a few messages and we're completely opposite of of each other, you know, he's Ohio vegan. I'm out here in the West. I hunt. And he's just like, you know, people made a comment like uh, negative about me to him. He just said, I think we'd have a lot to talk about. I think this world needs to do more talking. And so that's the attitude. It seems so obvious and

• 1:03:35Cameron Hanes?

  people should know that that's what it would take to make this world work at at its best. But sometimes you gotta say it too. And like he was challenged with that from somebody and he said, no, conversation is the key to everything, to working all this stuff out. So I appreciate that you are so willing and open to do it and and uh, I mean, shooting a bow, you're you're good. I mean, you are good at shooting a bow.

• 1:03:58Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:03:59Cameron Hanes?

  So is Chris also. But uh, I just love like, what I always say is I want people to leave here with a story. And so I hope we've done a lot of stuff you hadn't done before. And uh, you know, you just have good stories to to share with everybody once you leave here.

• 1:04:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, Chris was asking me last night if I had a good day and I'm like, I had a great day. I feel like I've lived multiple lives and one day I think I was challenged with the archery, you know, I was challenged on uh, peace, Piska with you.

• 1:04:27Cameron Hanes?

  Piska, yeah.

• 1:04:28Speaker 01

  Piska, uh, when you uh, sandbag us all. And told us you were gonna take it easy on a hundred degree day and then. Thanked us all.

• 1:04:38Cameron Hanes?

  That, uh, what'd you think of the finisher? Well, I always call that where you run down and run up that other hill on the other side. That always hurts.

• 1:04:44Speaker 01

  That's brutal.

• 1:04:45Cameron Hanes?

  But, but it's, uh, I just love stuff like that. And I love, what I love, so I always take off. And I don't know if, what, if this is just me, I always take off and there's a thought that you're gonna drop everybody. But I love when I hear people, cause we're like, okay, I guess they're sending it to you. And it's, this is fun. It's just cool. It's cool to send it on mountains, but if you're the only one doing it, it's not that fun. But everybody was, was into it yesterday. Hot as hell. We pushed to get up to the summit. Marco crushed, what did he get? Thirteen something?

• 1:05:22Speaker 01

  Thirteen and change.

• 1:05:23Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:24Cameron Hanes?

  And then still, everybody wanted to sprint up and do my finisher to the swing hill. So I, I was like, dude, I'm in heaven. I'm in heaven watching new people shoot bows, hang out, do my sauna in my cold tub, uh, eat some bear pepperoni. You didn't, but we'll, we'll, we're still working on that. Um, I just love sharing my life with people and, and I love seeing people appreciate it. Like really like, you know, even though it's not something you've never done, you're so into it. And it's just, man, it's, that energizes me. So I, I can, this is like, I always say, you know, you say, well, thanks for this. Thanks for doing this. Thanks for sharing this. As I said before, this is all for me.

• 1:06:05Cameron Hanes?

  So this is all me and I'm selfishly doing this. And if you enjoyed it, then I don't even care, but that's great.

• 1:06:13Speaker 01

  Yeah. No, uh, I appreciate being here and it's very evident how, how much you care about giving back. And you know, it's like, it's so easy to get caught up on social media with all the comments and everything.

• 1:06:27Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, yeah. No, it's a, yeah, the giving part, it's like, I think that's what we're supposed to do. I just think that's how the world, I think that's how communities are supposed to work. There's always going to be people that have more than others. There's going to be people that struggle more than others. I think if we, like I always say, I have more than I deserve. I think that it's my obligation to share. And I, and it feels good. It's not even an obligation. I want to. Just like I want to have you here just so, but it's for me. Giving to others is for me also. I just, I'd love sharing, you know, I've had some lucky breaks. Some people don't have lucky breaks in life.

• 1:07:11Cameron Hanes?

  And um, I want to share my lucky breaks with others. And I just think that's how we're, that's how humans, that's a human condition, I think. That's how we're designed to, to live, but maybe not.

• 1:07:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, we're pretty lucky to be where we're at now, so we might as well make the most of it.

• 1:07:28Cameron Hanes?

  I think so. I think so. Um, so is Mount Hood next on the list then? If we get the, did the winds lay down?

• 1:07:37Speaker 01

  Uh, so we work with a, a high altitude meteorologist on a lot of our projects and he's awesome. Um, and he's saying that end of the week, so like Thursday, Friday, Saturday. The winds are supposed to die down. So likely do one summit in advance as a scouting mission, so what the conditions are like and then.

• 1:07:56Cameron Hanes?

  Is that usually the, the play is one to scout, make a plan and then hit it?

• 1:08:02Speaker 01

  For bigger objectives, um, especially like Hood, depending on the conditions that it, it's in. It can have like some rockfall and icefall, more consequential terrain. I'd like to scout that in advance. Um, there are a handful that I've just, um, on sided and just run out the gate first time. Yeah.

• 1:08:20Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. And I asked you yesterday, have you ever not got, or like, how often do you not get them? But it sounds like you almost always get them.

• 1:08:31Speaker 01

  It's a seldom occurrence, but it has happened, um, which is, you know, forced me to put my ego in check. You know, you mentioned Nolan's earlier. Um, and that's such an iconic line. Uh, for those who don't know, it's about a hundred miles. It traverses 14 14ers across the Sawatch Range in Colorado. So you start near Salida, um, on Mount Siavano, and then you end near Leadville on Mount Massive.

• 1:08:57Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, man.

• 1:08:58Speaker 01

  Um, and it's not a traditional trail or race course. A lot of it is off-trail, like backcountry navigation, very steep climbs. Um, and that one I've attempted a few times, uh, to get the women's record on it. And when you have an objective of that scale, it's, it's like a puzzle. And there's so many pieces that have to fit together perfectly in order for it to happen.

• 1:09:21Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:22Speaker 01

  On that day or over the course of two days, in the case of Nolan's. Um, and so, yeah, I haven't been able to dial down nutrition and just body, mind, weather. Like, everything has to come together. So.

• 1:09:34Cameron Hanes?

  That makes sense. Is, how, how close have you got to it?

• 1:09:37Speaker 01

  Uh, I've gotten almost to the halfway mark. And at that point, it was a really tough decision to drop because I was well ahead of the women's record at that point, but I just wasn't feeling properly, starting to bonk, and I knew it wasn't going to be sustainable.

• 1:09:54Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 1:09:54Speaker 01

  Till the finish.

• 1:09:55Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:56Cameron Hanes?

  So you're on pace, but still got some work to do.

• 1:09:59Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. Well, that's the thing. Like, I have such high expectations for myself, too. Like, I know what time I'm capable of on a course like that. The current women's record is between 45 and 46 hours, and I'd like to get it closer to the 40, 41, 42 hour mark.

• 1:10:15Cameron Hanes?

  Mm-hmm. And you were on pace that time, that last time?

• 1:10:18Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:10:18Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. It'll happen. Just takes a perfect, yeah, perfect storm, basically. But yeah, that's a good one. I didn't know it was almost 100 miles. So how much climb?

• 1:10:30Speaker 01

  Uh, 40,000 feet of climbing.

• 1:10:33Cameron Hanes?

  Dude, that's legit. That'd be a sick one to get, though. Somebody said something, like I saw a comment, it's probably just some retarded comment, but ask her about the Coloberra or something like that. What's that about?

• 1:10:48Speaker 01

  So there's a peak in Colorado. It's called Culebra.

• 1:10:52Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, that's what it was, yeah.

• 1:10:53Speaker 01

  It's a 14er and it's the southernmost 14er in Colorado.

• 1:10:59Speaker 01

  And so a couple of years ago, I was going after the women's self-supported speed record for all the Colorado 14ers. So how fast can I climb them in one consecutive push? No outside assistance, I'm entirely by myself. And I made the decision to intentionally omit Culebra from the record. So there's a handful, like of peaks. At the time, it was four peaks that were on private property in Colorado. And most of them, like Mount Lindsay, the Ticalbron Loop, if you're familiar with that one. The landowners want people to be able to access, recreate fish on their lands,

• 1:11:44Speaker 01

  but they don't want the liability if somebody gets hurt.

• 1:11:47Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:11:47Speaker 01

  Because there's been like a case before in Colorado Springs where a mountain biker was injured on, I think it was like the Air Force property. He broke his leg, sued the landowners and won like $7 million. So that's how the precedent, and all the landowners, you know, were understandably scared. Like if somebody gets hurt hiking our peak, we don't want to be sued for $7 million.

• 1:12:12Cameron Hanes?

  I get that.

• 1:12:13Speaker 01

  Culebra is kind of an exception in that it's owned by an oil billionaire from Texas, who probably spent very little time on the actual land. Um, and they charge people to hike it.

• 1:12:27Cameron Hanes?

  Oh.

• 1:12:27Speaker 01

  That peak or any of the surrounding thirteen ers.

• 1:12:29Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm, I see.

• 1:12:31Speaker 01

  They don't really need the money. Um, they make a lot of their money from hunting and this land has had a lot of history. It was originally given to like Spanish and Mexican uh, homesteaders who had access to all the hunting and the resources on the land. And this landowner, he's tried to build a fence around it. So in recent years, there's been lots of articles and uproars surrounding it. Um, cause you know, it's, they were the ones who were originally given access to those resources and he's trying to inhibit that so he can make a profit off of.

• 1:13:01Cameron Hanes?

  Make money off of.

• 1:13:01Speaker 01

  Guided hunting operations.

• 1:13:03Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:04Speaker 01

  Um, so yeah, I wanted, cause I think when it comes to F K Ts, the crux should be, you know, the mind and the body. What can they do? It shouldn't be the, the gatekeeping. Can you get access to this peak?

• 1:13:16Cameron Hanes?

  And. No.

• 1:13:17Speaker 01

  A lot of like.

• 1:13:17Cameron Hanes?

  I agree.

• 1:13:18Speaker 01

  Other record holders who have pursued this record, they have a personal relationship with like the, the guy who manages the property. And so whereas normally if you do pay, you have to show up at the gate, six AM sharp, no exceptions. They've been able to like bend the rules for the, which I don't think is right. If you're trying to have that even playing field for sport.

• 1:13:38Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah. No, that makes sense to me. Yeah. Is that in the uh, Santa Cristos?

• 1:13:44Speaker 01

  It is. Yeah.

• 1:13:44Cameron Hanes?

  Okay, yeah.

• 1:13:46Speaker 01

  So pretty close to the New Mexico border. Yeah.

• 1:13:49Cameron Hanes?

  I hate to say it.

• 1:13:52Cameron Hanes?

  That might be where I hunt.

• 1:13:55Speaker 01

  Do you know Carlos?

• 1:13:56Cameron Hanes?

  No. Okay. So maybe good. I'm glad. Is that the landowner?

• 1:14:00Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, no, uh, um, I believe the, the landowner is William Harrison. Carlos is just the guy who manages.

• 1:14:06Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, good. Well, I'm glad I don't know either of them. So I'm not, I'm not contributing to that mess, but I do, uh, I hunt, I've hunted in Santa Cristos and, but there's, there's a few landowners that own like big sections of that range. So, um, I hunt on Bobby Hill's property, which that's not who you're talking about. But, uh, I know like, yeah, that's, that's a coveted area. It's like for sheep hunting for sure. I mean, cause I think there's sheep up there on that peak and, uh, people get serious about sheep. So I, I, and also Texas oil guys, you know what they're serious about? Money.

• 1:14:45Speaker 01

  There you go.

• 1:14:47Cameron Hanes?

  So it's just, yeah, I get that. So that well, that makes sense because I do agree with the FKT where you want it accessible to whoever go do it. It shouldn't have to be the the money.

• 1:15:00Cameron Hanes?

  You know, hindrance for money that like, oh, this guy could have got it. And he's, you know, in amazing shape, but just didn't have the money. So yeah, I like that.

• 1:15:09Speaker 01

  Yeah. And it took a lot of back and forth with FKT, but eventually they did go in and create a separate category of anybody who wants to go after this record in the future. It only includes the public lands.

• 1:15:20Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that's good. Well, good job. So you that was because of you?

• 1:15:24Speaker 01

  That was because of me.

• 1:15:25Cameron Hanes?

  Awesome. I love it. Well, I'm glad I asked now. Oh, I was gonna ask you before we forget. I mean, I don't know how long we've been talking, but tell me about your sponsors, because I think that that's it's sick to to you basically created a category. You're a female FKT athlete crushing it out there. Very marketable. Put out a great product like inspire people as we talked about. So who helps this happen? Like, how was sponsors saw something in you, believed in you, and now they're helping facilitate this?

• 1:15:59Speaker 01

  Yeah. So as I mentioned, Teva with the heels, they've been incredible. And they've created what's called the Bureau of Adventure. So they're kind of they're kind of trying to maneuver away from our athletes only race and compete like they're really also have kayakers and, you know, athletes from all different backgrounds and part of their team and really trying to emphasize the adventure element, which I think it makes it a lot more relatable to widespread audiences as well.

• 1:16:37Cameron Hanes?

  Adventure sells.

• 1:16:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. And it's like if the prototypes work for me and really rugged backcountry terrain, that also speaks for how it's going to work to the average consumer. And like, for example, I brought a pair of their prototypes. It's kind of a trail runner, a hybrid with a more traditional mountaineering boot up to the summit of Atkongawa. And that's what it set the record in. So I brought a pair of their prototypes all the way up to 23,000 feet. How cool is that?

• 1:17:07Cameron Hanes?

  That is. Yeah, they probably love that. That's the that's the type of testing they need. Yeah. Because you know, it's gonna hold up there or hold up anywhere. Um, is that your only sponsor or do you have others?

• 1:17:17Speaker 01

  Um, I also work with a brand called Now Foods.

• 1:17:21Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 1:17:21Speaker 01

  They make supplements and then uh nomadics, they make like ultralight travel towels. And then Coros, um, so I've recorded all my FKTs thus far on the Coros watch and so it was a natural fit.

• 1:17:35Cameron Hanes?

  Gotcha. Yeah, that's a, that's a key piece to what you, what you do.

• 1:17:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:17:40Cameron Hanes?

  But yeah, I, I see a lot more sponsorship categories available for you out there. So I think you're gonna get more and more. Um, yeah, it's awesome. I'm glad that they're helping. I'm glad you're able to create this. A career for yourself and just like out there crushing it. And I'm glad Chris sent me a message about you. Gideon has some retarded questions.

• 1:18:02Speaker 01

  I can't wait.

• 1:18:04Cameron Hanes?

  We'll, we'll cut all these out.

• 1:18:05Speaker 01

  I've heard the lore.

• 1:18:06Cameron Hanes?

  We, we don't even, we don't even, I mean, we're not even recording. He, we're just making him, it feel like he's actually playing part of this.

• 1:18:13Speaker 02

  If you've heard the lore, then you know what's coming for this first question.

• 1:18:16Cameron Hanes?

  Oh no.

• 1:18:18Speaker 02

  Which is a fuck, marry, kill, if you've ever played that.

• 1:18:22Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:22Speaker 02

  So the rules are one is a one night stand, like you only get to do it one more time. One is you get to do it for the rest of your life. That's marry. And then one you have to get rid of. And your three categories are FKTs, hiking with heels and traveling.

• 1:18:39Cameron Hanes?

  Ooh, that's a, that's a tough one, dude.

• 1:18:44Cameron Hanes?

  One forever, one once, one never.

• 1:18:51Speaker 01

  I'm gonna say traveling forever. I hope to be doing that even when I'm old and can't run as fast. Probably kill the heels and fuck FKTs.

• 1:19:05Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, there we go.

• 1:19:09Cameron Hanes?

  Marion, Marion Adventure. Yeah. Okay. I like it. Yeah. You can give up the heels. That's fine. Except that was your ticket to stardom. This is what launched you.

• 1:19:19Speaker 01

  I knew how to get in there, but they're fun. Like it takes, it removes some of the seriousness of professional athletics. And it's like, normally I, you've been around me, I'm wearing like running clothes. Yeah. Most of the time. So it is fun to be able to get dressed up and embrace that more feminine side of me. Like,

• 1:19:37Cameron Hanes?

  I know. You've had dresses on up there, right?

• 1:19:40Speaker 01

  Yeah. Oh, I do. I do the whole thing. The whole shebang.

• 1:19:43Cameron Hanes?

  That's sick. I just, that's just being creative and being unique.

• 1:19:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:47Cameron Hanes?

  That's what we need. I love it.

• 1:19:48Speaker 01

  It, it gets a lot of pushback from mostly a, a older male audience, you know, saying, I'm just seeking attention or it's reckless. And I, I think that's actually what has transformed it into more of a long-term project versus just kind of started out as a, a joke.

• 1:20:06Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:07Speaker 01

  Hey, I'm going to show it is possible to do them all in high heels. And I'm also going to be like a badass athlete and chase records on the same mountains too.

• 1:20:15Cameron Hanes?

  So what, what do you want to tell those like cranky old white dipshits?

• 1:20:19Speaker 01

  Get off your couch. Get off your keyboard.

• 1:20:22Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Yeah. Get your, yeah, thumb out of your ass and go do something.

• 1:20:26Speaker 01

  Touch some grass.

• 1:20:26Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Don't worry about me.

• 1:20:28Speaker 01

  It's a big world out there.

• 1:20:29Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Yeah. Everybody's got an opinion, right? Yeah. I love it.

• 1:20:33Speaker 01

  You know.

• 1:20:34Cameron Hanes?

  Yes, of course. That, and we, we love them all. We appreciate all opinions.

• 1:20:38Speaker 02

  Yeah. It's all, it's all love.

• 1:20:39Cameron Hanes?

  It's all love. This is Shit Talkers Weekly vibe too.

• 1:20:43Speaker 02

  I'm just curious about like, when you're pushing hard and you're in the pain cave, for lack of better words, where do you go in your mind?

• 1:20:51Speaker 01

  Um, I think for me, it almost becomes a state of meditation. Like I'm asked, Aaron, what do you think about when you're out there on trail or pursuing FKTs? And most of the time it's not these very profound thoughts. It's just in the zone, focusing on my breathing, one step in front of the other.

• 1:21:11Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that's a good one. I liked the other day, I like seeing passing people and like everybody's out there doing the same stuff, saying hi, you know, oh, good to see you. It's just like, everybody's in a good mood up there. It's just like, that's, I don't know, it's so appealing, so fun. Nobody's ever been a dick on the mountain, usually.

• 1:21:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, unless you're hiking the 14ers in heels in Colorado.

• 1:21:37Cameron Hanes?

  Really? Were they, were they judging you on that, some people?

• 1:21:41Speaker 01

  In person, most of the time, people are like, that's badass, that's awesome. But I've had, had some like cranky old men saying I shouldn't be up there. Or like, a lot of time, people just see me at the trailhead and they don't think I'm actually climbing the peak. They think I'm there to take some pretty photos. And like, no, I'm going to the summit.

• 1:21:57Cameron Hanes?

  See up there, you try to keep up. That's what you need to tell them. You got any more?

• 1:22:02Speaker 02

  Yeah. Um, you said earlier, you know, you hope to inspire people to look at different options, different lifestyles. What do you think that lifestyle is? What would be your ideal lifestyle for people to go and chase instead of this white picket fence thing we're kind of fed?

• 1:22:23Speaker 01

  You know, I think everybody's different. I don't think there's one universal answer. Like, for some people, it is the white picket fence and the children, and that's what brings them fulfillment. I just wish that we were presented with more opportunities earlier. It's like, you know, doctor, lawyer, nobody ever says bow hunter. Nobody ever says, you know, going out and running on trails and getting dirty in the mountains. Like, you're not taught that that is a viable career path.

• 1:22:52Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm. Yeah, that's true. It's, this, you know, for all the ills social media has, it is pretty powerful that you can, like, make your own career. You know, I mean, I don't want to say influencer, but we sort of are. But there's influencers, you know, the gamut that it ranges is, you know, whatever. It's like, I don't know, there's unlimited opportunity, but turning something you love, a passion, into a money-making endeavor, that's, that's real. That can happen. And that, all that is, is, as I said, make people care about what you're doing.

• 1:23:31Cameron Hanes?

  Attention is currency. So that is like those two things. I don't care what you are. And that's the whole premise to Rogan's podcast is he just would find people that interested him that he thought, that is weird, that's or that's cool, or that's unique, or that's never thought of that. I want to talk to them. I want to learn more about it. That's why I was on there. Some weird bow hunter out here carrying rocks up the mountains. And he's like, you know, I want. So that was, and to give people permission to be like, I think your point is, we're not taught that, but your example is showing that you can do this. I'm giving you permission because I did it. Here's how I did it. Here's what I do. Find what moves you and make it a job.

• 1:24:16Speaker 01

  Absolutely. Yeah. And that being said, I do recognize it comes from a place of privilege. Like, you know, when I was just starting out, you know, barely grinding by, like my parents helped me out. My family helped me out and not everybody has the, the freedom to do that. But I hope that people get the message that, you know, if you're working a job you hate or just like not happy in life, it doesn't have to be that way. Like you can make those micro changes and get closer to where you want to be. Like, don't feel like you're ever stuck in that situation.

• 1:24:55Cameron Hanes?

  Right. Yeah, it's a, there's so many, it's a big world out there, so much potential. And the, the world is more accessible than it's ever been because of social media. So we can build these brands or build a following, which then in turn leads to a brand. I mean, you could have a whole merchandise line. I know that. I could just see, I see a picture, maybe you do have a merchandise line, but I see a picture of you on top of a mountain with a high heels, like an image. And, you know, that's a T-shirt for people that are into you and want to support you. And there'd be a lot of people that, that would like that.

• 1:25:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:29Cameron Hanes?

  And, and there'd be a lot of women that, that would be like, man, she's my whatever, like my inspiration to chase my own dreams. And so I think that, you know, your story is powerful one, powerful, definitely for women, but for anybody. Because instead of taking the path as a lawyer, the, the, the whatever, the very predictable life. You'd mentioned a few things along there. You did something completely different. And so. That can give other people like that had the Ivy League dreams and the lawyer dreams to be like, maybe that's not, maybe, maybe it's okay to have another dream, a different dream. And uh, cause people are always like, well, how much do lawyers make? And you're always like, kinda

• 1:26:14Cameron Hanes?

  tricked into this thing about it's money, it's status, it's materialism, it's accumulation of shit we don't even need. And um, you're giving them permission to be like, hey, make money being a dirtbag mountain climber.

• 1:26:28Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:26:29Cameron Hanes?

  Crush FKTs. So I think it's amazing. What else you got, bro?

• 1:26:34Speaker 02

  I got the opportunity for you to talk a little shit while I try to build my army. Is a 50K a real ultra?

• 1:26:44Speaker 01

  I see what you're doing.

• 1:26:47Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:26:50Speaker 01

  Okay. 50Ks have gotten really fucking fast and the elites competing at those are so talented beyond like what I could even imagine right now. Um, but if you are getting into ultra for the experience, you know, to experience all the emotions, the happiness, the pain, the suffering, um, I don't know if you can squeeze that out of a 50K.

• 1:27:15Cameron Hanes?

  He can, cause he takes, he takes, he DNFs all the time.

• 1:27:21Speaker 02

  DNF king.

• 1:27:22Cameron Hanes?

  It depends on how long you take. So you said the fast people that are done in three hours, yeah, they're not getting that whole pain cave stuff probably. But James takes seven hours. It's the hardest thing he ever did.

• 1:27:33Speaker 02

  You know, like how you're kind of the queen of FKTs, I'm the, what's the?

• 1:27:38Cameron Hanes?

  The cuck of DNFs.

• 1:27:45Cameron Hanes?

  That's your new, hey, we got a merch line for you too.

• 1:27:51Cameron Hanes?

  And it'll be a silhouette of you with your butt plug in.

• 1:27:54Speaker 01

  My parents are gonna listen to this podcast and be like, why did she get roped in?

• 1:27:59Cameron Hanes?

  Are they gonna listen? We better cut that out there.

• 1:28:02Speaker 01

  Please keep it in.

• 1:28:02Cameron Hanes?

  Really? Sorry, Erin's mom and dad. It's, that was, I was, we were out of line. We apologize.

• 1:28:10Speaker 02

  Last question is um, kind of a two parter, but why FKTs over races? And is there any future prospects for racing?

• 1:28:24Speaker 01

  Uh, for the second question, definitely. Um, yeah, I never say never to anything and I do have a list of like bucket list races, Hard Rock, for example.

• 1:28:34Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:35Speaker 01

  Like the San Juans are hands down my favorite mountains in Colorado.

• 1:28:39Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 1:28:39Speaker 01

  Um, just unbelievably gorgeous and that, that race is very, um, in line with like where my strengths are as a runner, altitude, lots of climbing. Um, but yeah, for the time being, I mentioned the Seven Summits project that is my focus. Um, and I, I just love like the self sustainability, um, element of it. Uh, so like with FKTs, you can be supported, unsupported, self-supported, and I like that feeling of being totally reliant on myself. You know, if I get myself into the Grand Canyon, I'm in charge of getting myself out. I have to bring all my food and water. I can't rely on aid stations.

• 1:29:24Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:25Speaker 01

  Races are too soft.

• 1:29:28Cameron Hanes?

  Was that, did she, what was the first question? I can't remember.

• 1:29:32Speaker 02

  She answered it. It was just why FKTs.

• 1:29:34Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, why FKTs? Yeah. Yeah.

• 1:29:38Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, Barkley? Yeah, I know. Yeah, Chris, Chris, Chris attempted Barkley.

• 1:29:44Speaker 01

  Barkley is a whole other animal.

• 1:29:45Cameron Hanes?

  That's legit. Well, would I, would I, I mean, if you do that seven, the peaks and seven continents, all that, and you get the FKTs, I'm like, I want to see you on fucking Time Magazine or something. I mean, that is incredible. That's, that's an accomplishment that needs to be celebrated. And if Time Magazine doesn't put you on, we'll put you on Keep Hammering Collective after you do that.

• 1:30:10Speaker 01

  There you go. Keep hammering Time Magazine.

• 1:30:14Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, it's about the same.

• 1:30:15Speaker 02

  Are you guys making a documentary about that?

• 1:30:18Speaker 01

  Um, but you know, it really just depends on how much funding for media we can get. Like at Kankagwa, I did that entirely by myself. I could get some, you know, iPhone photos and footage. But when I'm there, my, my focus, my one goal is getting the record on the mountain and doing the best I can. But it would, I think it would make for a great film or documentary.

• 1:30:41Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, man. Dude, that's like a Netflix thing. I mean, you have what it takes. I mean, you gotta be marketable. You are. You gotta be a beast. You are. It's a, it's a once in a lifetime adventure, makes awesome cinema, fucking easy to sell, dude. I mean, that should be an easy sell.

• 1:31:01Speaker 01

  Gonna go to some pretty incredible places, experience the cultures.

• 1:31:06Speaker 02

  I mean, I asked for a reason.

• 1:31:07Cameron Hanes?

  I know, I know. Cause I've had this whole, like, I'm supposed to have this call with Netflix and it's like, I want to do a series on outliers. You know what I mean? Cause it's like, that's my, all I care about is hanging out with fucking cool people that do amazing shit. So it's like, let's just have a show on it. And so we just, I don't know if this experience here was like to the level for Netflix, but similar to this and just filming, that's an episode. And I, I know it would work, but uh, yeah.

• 1:31:40Speaker 01

  I can see it.

• 1:31:41Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, it'd be sick. But anyway, point is, your, your, this goal is, that's an easy sell. I mean, especially nowadays, it's, you know, documentaries are so popular and then it's, there's not a ton of them. They're women focused. So I just think it's, it's so easy, so easy to.

• 1:32:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32:01Cameron Hanes?

  To.

• 1:32:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, and it connects to what we were talking about earlier about inspiring the other.

• 1:32:07Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:07Speaker 01

  Like when, before I identified as an athlete, you know, I'd watch like Free Solo with Alex Honnold and it gets you to start thinking differently about the way you see the world and what our abilities are in the world.

• 1:32:22Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. And, and I think that even part of the story is that you, that Pat, I talked about it already, but the path of you were gonna be a lawyer and then, you know, that you veered off that. So we talked about giving people permission. I mean, it's just, that story has to be told. If you can't fucking sell that thing, we'll do it.

• 1:32:42Cameron Hanes?

  God dang.

• 1:32:43Speaker 01

  And I have to shoot a bow.

• 1:32:45Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:46Speaker 01

  At the top of.

• 1:32:47Cameron Hanes?

  Of each peak.

• 1:32:47Speaker 01

  That would be sick.

• 1:32:49Cameron Hanes?

  Uh, could you imagine? I mean, that's like your pose on each, on each, uh, mountain.

• 1:32:53Speaker 01

  On top of Everest. Sorry, China.

• 1:32:56Cameron Hanes?

  This is like, I, I am more, I love thinking about, I love thinking about stuff like this.

• 1:33:04Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Cause it's just like, this is what people need to see. There's so much shit on TV. This is real. And this is, you know, can change people's lives. So, um, was that all you had? That was it. All right. Well, man, I've had the, the best time. It's been so fun. Uh, yeah, we've been, we've made it a week. We've had Marco here too, and you guys here, and we're just like, I don't even, I don't even know what day it is, but I'm like, we'll make a whole week of this shit.

• 1:33:30Speaker 01

  Yeah. We've crammed a lot into not a lot of time.

• 1:33:33Cameron Hanes?

  I know. I've had so much fun with you guys and super thankful. And I'm very, um, I'm very grateful that, to be able to share South Sister with you. And, uh, you know, we were kind of deciding what we're gonna do. It's like, we don't do big mountains with everybody. Sometimes we just do Pisgah. I've done Diamond with a few people, but I'm so glad that it ended up, cause we were considering Diamond or something else. And then I saw you were doing these other peaks. And then somehow, I think Taylor told me that the permit was still open till the 15th, where you didn't need a permit to do South Sister. And I was just like, well, fuck, let's do that.

• 1:34:08Speaker 01

  It was perfect.

• 1:34:08Cameron Hanes?

  Let's send that. And it was, I'm just, and then to see you at the Bow Rack and doing so well and share, even sharing that experience with Marco and, and Chris too. Everybody shot good. Wayne just loves teaching people. Um, and it's just, yeah, I mean, I just love sharing my life. So I'm very, very thankful for you. Thanks for coming. Thanks for being so willing to do everything. And, uh, yeah.

• 1:34:32Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, it's, it's amazing what you've built here and yeah, giving back to athletes and yeah, I can't thank you enough for having us here. You're the best.

• 1:34:42Cameron Hanes?

  Well, I appreciate you. All right, guys. Keep hammering. That's it.