How Humphrey Yang Built His Wealth

Humphrey Yang is an amazing personal finance creator with tens of millions of followers and he joins us for a Q&A livestream! We start by learning where Humphrey's money mindset stems from...you don't want to miss his father's story. Then we answer your financial questions with Humphrey on everything from investment allocation to over-saving in your 20s to loans from a family member. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jump start your journey with our FREE financial resources⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Reach your goals faster with our products⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Take the relationship to the next level: become a client⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Subscribe on YouTube for early access and go beyond the podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Connect with us on social media for more content⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Bring confidence to your wealth building with simplified strategies from The Money Guy. Learn how to apply financial tactics that go beyond common sense and help you reach your money goals faster. Make your assets do the heavy lifting so you can quit worrying and start living a more fulfilled life. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠NordVPN.com/MONEYGUY⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 1:05Brian Preston?

  How Humphrey Yang built his wealth.

• 1:08Speaker 03

  Brent, I am so excited about this because we have a special guest into today that has literally impacted the financial lives of tens of millions of Americans. I am so excited that we have Humphrey hanging out with us today.

• 1:23Brian Preston?

  Welcome to the studio Humphrey.

• 1:25Speaker 04

  All right. You guys are really excited for a Tuesday morning at 10:00 in the morning in Central Time, but 8:00 AM Pacific, you know?

• 1:31Speaker 03

  Every single Tuesday.

• 1:32Brian Preston?

  We saw we loaded up with some caffeine. We have a special guest here. With an intro like that, this has got to be like, what are these guys doing?

• 1:40Speaker 04

  I know, right?

• 1:41Brian Preston?

  But in all seriousness, look, we talk about a lot of our content. I know I've shared many times that Bo comes from very humble, humble beginnings. I shared all my mistakes and all the things that have made me who I am in Millionaire Mission. So, you know, there is something about where you come from, what you're raised in, who your parents are, that stuff shapes you all through your childhood. And I mean, what I want to know is, so when baby Humphrey came to the world, what did, I mean, give us a little background. What was it like being baby Humphrey?

• 2:16Speaker 04

  Yeah, baby Humphrey was really addicted to video games. I loved video games and, you know, I grew up in a pretty good, I would say.

• 2:26Speaker 04

  I would say the house was pretty nice for, for where my dad was in his career. Mm-hmm. I think he spent a lot of money on his house. Got it.

• 2:34Brian Preston?

  And what did your parents do for a living?

• 2:36Speaker 04

  My dad was a fighter pilot.

• 2:38Brian Preston?

  Oh, cool!

• 2:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, he was a fighter pilot in Taiwan.

• 2:41Brian Preston?

  Okay.

• 2:41Speaker 04

  And then he came to America on a CIA contract.

• 2:45Brian Preston?

  Even cooler!

• 2:46Speaker 04

  That was to fly unmarked planes in Vietnam.

• 2:49Brian Preston?

  Wow!

• 2:50Speaker 04

  So he flew in the Vietnam War for the United States. That's how he got his citizenship. And he kinda flew an unmarked plane. He said 75% of those people that flew those planes died. So he was one of the remaining few.

• 3:03Brian Preston?

  No shadow on you.

• 3:04Speaker 04

  Yeah, and then, uh, and then, so he, after he immigrated to the United States, he started working in commercial. So he would, he would fly, you know, these cargo planes to Tahoe and Reno from San Francisco. And then he flew, you know, commercially for airlines and, and stuff like that. But he, he mostly was a successful businessman as he would do airplane leasing.

• 3:26Brian Preston?

  Okay.

• 3:27Speaker 04

  So what that means was he would be a, a broker between an airline and the people that made the parts.

• 3:35Brian Preston?

  Sure, sure.

• 3:36Speaker 04

  So an engine contract could, you know, pay him like a pretty good, a pretty good commission. Cause I think back in the day, airlines used to like lease, uh, engines from, from these manufacturers at, you know, for 30 years, whatever, and they would advertise them against their balance sheets. So that's, that's how he made his money. He would, he would sign these bigger deals, especially with the Asian airlines, because he was Chinese. He worked with a couple of American business guys and he would, he would be the Chinese contact in the 70s and 80s.

• 4:01Brian Preston?

  Okay. That's awesome. How about your mom?

• 4:03Speaker 04

  My mom did not work.

• 4:04Brian Preston?

  Okay.

• 4:05Speaker 04

  My mom has a middle school education. Uh, my dad found her in China when she was like 32 and then they got married in six months.

• 4:13Brian Preston?

  Okay.

• 4:13Speaker 04

  So it was pretty quick.

• 4:15Brian Preston?

  That's awesome.

• 4:15Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah. So, so he built his wealth that way. But when I was growing up, he, you know, money was always a big topic in our household. He grew up very poor. He had nothing to eat, you know, from ages like eight to 13, he was struggling. And both his parents went to jail, uh, one went to jail, his dad went to jail. And my grandmother passed away early.

• 4:36Brian Preston?

  Okay.

• 4:37Speaker 04

  So he grew up really poor with nothing in Shanghai. And then there was a Japanese occupation at that time. And that's why he fled to Taiwan.

• 4:45Brian Preston?

  Okay.

• 4:45Speaker 04

  Now with that in mind, that gave him a scarcity mindset around money. Right? He hoarded everything that he could. And that was kind of passed down to me. I think like, you know, growing up, he would always say like, you know, if you don't have to spend money, don't spend money.

• 5:01Brian Preston?

  Okay.

• 5:01Speaker 04

  Like if you absolutely need something, then you spend money.

• 5:04Brian Preston?

  But only if it's an absolute necessity. No wants, no, none of that kind of stuff.

• 5:08Speaker 04

  Exactly. But you know, he would kind of categorize some wants in a night, in a, in a different bucket. Like if you need like a nice desk chair because it's going to help your body.

• 5:18Brian Preston?

  You need that, obviously.

• 5:19Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so that would sometimes make me rationalize a spend like, you know, an $800 desk chair when I didn't really need it.

• 5:26Brian Preston?

  I need this new video game because I've beat the old one, right? Like that's the kind of thought process.

• 5:31Speaker 04

  But, but that was why I think, so money was always a topic for us. I think I was like four or five and I would ask my dad, are we well off? Are we doing good? And you know, he wouldn't really give me an answer. And he didn't really give me that much money as a kid. He gave me a little bit, bit of an allowance, like five bucks, you know.

• 5:46Brian Preston?

  Yeah.

• 5:46Speaker 04

  Here and there, but uh, that's, that's all I really remember about my childhood is like money was always a good topic.

• 5:53Brian Preston?

  That what shaped you though? I mean, is that the thing?

• 5:54Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 5:55Brian Preston?

  That seeing parents that modeled being tight with money. Did that create some weird uncomfortable or bad dynamics with money though? Cause it, cause there is something, it's one thing to grow up where, you know, if your parents tell you you're poor, but you know, there's money coming in, that, that might have its own after effects too. I mean, so did that, do you have some ripple effects from that?

• 6:16Speaker 04

  I don't think we were told we were poor, but it, it definitely made me scared to invest. Because he was kind of more of a risk averse person with his money.

• 6:25Brian Preston?

  So there's a lot of cash?

• 6:26Speaker 04

  A lot of cash.

• 6:27Brian Preston?

  Okay.

• 6:27Speaker 04

  A lot of, he bought his house in cash.

• 6:28Brian Preston?

  Okay.

• 6:29Speaker 04

  Right? And so he was always afraid of going into debt. He never wanted to be in debt. He saw how debt and leverage kind of ruined a lot of his friends.

• 6:36Brian Preston?

  Sure.

• 6:37Speaker 04

  And so for him, it was always like, if I had the money, he would buy, if he had the money, he would buy it. And then also, um, he kind of instilled these values in me of like, let's, let's, let's be more risk averse or like, let's save your money. Like, you know, if I had $10,000 at age 25, he'd be like, oh yeah, you should save like 60% of that. And maybe you can invest 20% of that.

• 6:56Brian Preston?

  Okay.

• 6:56Speaker 04

  And now I've kind of changed my mindset around that to, to flip it around almost.

• 7:00Speaker 03

  Well, I was gonna say, what, what changed? Cause obviously now you are a personal finance expert. You're literally sharing how to make sound financial decisions with tons of people. Like what changed?

• 7:10Speaker 04

  Data.

• 7:11Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 7:12Speaker 04

  Data changed, yeah.

• 7:13Speaker 03

  So you just learned, you just learned, I mean, what was your background getting into even the financial space?

• 7:18Speaker 04

  Yeah. So I, I studied finance in college, uh, at Loyola Marymount University. I didn't really learn that much about finances in college, but that was around 2008. So I do remember that quite well.

• 7:27Speaker 03

  It's a great time to learn some stuff.

• 7:28Speaker 04

  Great time to learn some, some stuff. And I wasn't really an investor until I became a financial advisor at the Merrill Lynch program. So the Merrill Lynch, they had a program to, to learn to become a financial advisor.

• 7:40Speaker 04

  Studied, you know, for the series seven and 66, passed those. And I really learned more about money, the data behind the S and P 500, the market, how you should be really investing your money to, to make it grow, to go against inflation and, you know, the printing of more currency. So, yeah.

• 7:57Brian Preston?

  Well, I, I have a question just cause, um, and this just came to me. It's not, is the, when you're a Merrill Lynch advisor, you do a lot of proprietary funds. At what point did you like, maybe I ought to be buying an index fund? Cause I mean, where does, how does that fit in? I'm just curiosity wise, cause you, now you have the hindsight.

• 8:15Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 8:16Brian Preston?

  I mean, looking at that, does that, I mean, is it, is that something that pops up or in?

• 8:21Speaker 04

  Of course. So I was not an advisor for very long.

• 8:24Brian Preston?

  Okay.

• 8:24Speaker 04

  I'd say about a year, year and a half.

• 8:26Brian Preston?

  Okay.

• 8:26Speaker 04

  And the reason is, is because I realized that the industry, at least the Merrill Lynch program was more about prospecting and getting people to, to bring their, their assets over to you. And then once their assets were over to your firm, Bank of America Merrill Lynch, and I, I assume Morgan Stanley would probably work this way too, or some of the other bigger firms, they kind of put you in these set products. And really the investments, they take care of themselves and really the clients are there to. Have somebody to talk to on a quarter to quarter basis, right? They're really interested in let's keep the relationship happy. Let's maintain their expectations. Let's keep, let's make sure that they're at least matching market returns, maybe less of a little bit of the management fee. But really it wasn't about taking huge risks, in my opinion.

• 9:10Speaker 04

  I think it was more about the guidance that a financial advisor could give you. So, once I really learned about how an index fund, Vanguard, S and P 500 index fund could just do as well as a financial advisor. I just, I didn't really believe in the space anymore as much. Yeah, but I'm not saying that they're not useful.

• 9:29Brian Preston?

  Oh, no.

• 9:30Speaker 04

  They're still useful.

• 9:31Brian Preston?

  Well, we actually, look, this is, they both could be like, why did you take this thing on a left turn? I would agree, that's because, you know, because I've seen you've covered Ramit and others, people. I would tell people if all your financial advisor does is the investment size, that's already been commoditized through index investing anyway. That's why I was just, me and, I had a friend who lives in Chicago. He works with one of these institutional advisory firms. It's even on the one of the lower cost sides. And he was like, I was like, but if they're not talking to you about your property and casualty insurance, Roth conversions. You know, are they reviewing your tax return every year to see if you're leaving money on the table? Or making sure everything got implemented right? I was like, this is, this is what a financial planner does.

• 10:15Brian Preston?

  It's not, if you're just doing asset allocation and telling you, hey, do this fund of America or this index fund here. That's commoditized already. So you're never going to insult me by saying you don't think a financial advisor earns their keep. Because if they're going to do is investment stuff.

• 10:32Speaker 04

  So I do think they earn their keep with all the things that you just mentioned.

• 10:35Brian Preston?

  Right.

• 10:36Speaker 04

  And I also have a friend, he makes, he's on YouTube, I'm not going to name him.

• 10:40Brian Preston?

  Okay.

• 10:40Speaker 04

  But he is also from an immigrant background, okay?

• 10:43Brian Preston?

  Okay.

• 10:43Speaker 04

  And he makes 50,000 bucks a month, 20 to 50,000 bucks a month. But he was all cash for a long time and he kept, he kept asking me, should I invest? Should I invest? Should I invest? This was like last year, 2024, before Trump took office. And he was like, should I invest? And I was like, yeah, you should invest.

• 10:59Brian Preston?

  Yes, yes.

• 11:00Speaker 04

  He never did.

• 11:01Brian Preston?

  Oh, wow.

• 11:02Speaker 04

  And so what he did this year was he actually hired a financial advisor just so that he had more.

• 11:06Speaker 03

  To force his hand, yeah.

• 11:07Speaker 04

  Just so that he had more confidence to invest, right? And so he hired, he hired this great firm out of San Francisco. And I know he's paying like a 1% management fee, but the alternative is not investing.

• 11:17Speaker 03

  But think about how much better off he is even with that 1%. I mean, obviously the value that he's receiving far exceeds the fee that he's paying. And that's the trade off that you ultimately want.

• 11:27Speaker 04

  Right. And so for him, I told him like, you could just go with an index fund. But if he's too risk averse to do it, he might need that extra help. And, and he also gets the other services now too, right? So he actually kind of likes it now.

• 11:38Speaker 03

  I love that.

• 11:39Speaker 04

  But that was something for him that he had to realize, you know, he wasn't able to do it himself. Just the investing portion. So he trusted someone like you, Abound Wealth Management.

• 11:49Speaker 03

  I love it. So if you could go, if you could go back in time and talk, cause you said, you had to like gather data to be able to like, inform yourself. If you could go back in time and talk to like 20 year old Humphrey, like or that, that just brand new starting out. Or if you could say something to folks that are just starting out, you, you just celebrated a birthday. Is there some information or something that you would tell them that would accelerate all those years of data gathering it took you for it to click? That you would say now, oh man, if I could just tell 20 year old Humphrey this, I would let him know Humphrey do this.

• 12:20Speaker 04

  I would have invested way sooner and I would have not touched it at all. What happened was when I was like 24, 25 and when I was getting into this financial advisory business, that's when I started investing. And there were these dips and, and periods of times where, you know, I, I had some Apple stock and I sold, I sold it. I sold a portion of it because I got a little nervous. Or I sold a portion of, you know, Tesla stock. It came out in 2012 and you know, it was like 10 bucks a share or less. And I, and I bought some and I sold some. And I was like, oh man, if I, you know, if I just never touched it, just kept dollar cost averaging and just buying. My portfolio would probably be like three times as big today, but I was just, you know, I got scared. So.

• 12:59Speaker 03

  I get that. So you're saying not, don't let your emotions drive your financial decision making. When it comes to being an investor, when it comes to putting money to work, go into it and try to remain as unemotional as possible. And maybe even employ strategies that allow. You to be unemotional, you know, maybe index funds instead of instead of individual stocks that you feel like could have caused you to move in that direction.

• 13:19Brian Preston?

  Well, and that's what I was going to add is that because I think this is could be an emotional freeing event for a lot of people because you're a trusted

• 13:26Speaker 04

  Sure.

• 13:27Brian Preston?

  Voice out there.

• 13:28Speaker 03

  Tens of millions of Americans.

• 13:30Brian Preston?

  Anybody, because I see people let the let yourself off the hook. If you're one of these people that you bought maybe because the hot topic right now is Nvidia. You know, and there's a lot of people doing exactly what you said. They bought Nvidia, but then after it went up fourfold, they sold a portion of. That's the problem with all these things is that if you get it right, after it doubles or triples, you're likely going to sell it because it feels like, hey, I've made all this money. I ought to sell it. And then you go kick yourself when it goes up 10, 20 fold. Well, it's the same way. And if you bought it and then it goes to complete crud.

• 14:01Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 14:02Brian Preston?

  You kick yourself that way. So it's you're in a no win situation. All of your happiness and other things are driven by this individual holding. That's one of the reasons I love index investing is because it takes out the emotional side and it lets you actually focus on your time and what's important to you versus getting so caught up in your happiness being tied to this one company or this one, one, one pick.

• 14:24Speaker 04

  Yep. It does take a lot of discipline though, and I'm sure everyone watching right now is really into money. So that's, and that's another problem is that you're probably keeping track of the market right now. As we speak.

• 14:35Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 14:36Speaker 04

  Because you're so interested in money. And so it's almost better to be almost ignorant sometime ignorance is bliss sometimes with investing. Right. So.

• 14:42Speaker 03

  I love that. That's why I do my network statement one time a year.

• 14:45Speaker 04

  Oh, really?

• 14:45Speaker 03

  One time a year because I like surprises. I like seeing what happened, right? But what you said that one of the things that transformed was being able to data, gather data and let that inform your decision. Well, one of the things that we love to do every single Tuesday at 10am is we come right here so that we can load you guys up with data. So we tell our audience, we want to be here to help them do money better. And one of the ways we do that is by answering your questions and you guys are in for a treat right now because we have Humphrey here to answer questions with us. So if you have a question that you would like for us to weigh in on, if there's something you want to get our. Or maybe just Humphrey's take on, make sure you get it in the chat right now. We have the team

• 15:27Speaker 03

  out in the wings collecting your questions. So with that, Creative Director Rebe, I'm gonna throw it over to you.

• 15:33Speaker 04

  No hard questions, please.

• 15:35Speaker 03

  Only layups.

• 15:36Brian Preston?

  I'm just curious. Do we look like the Brady Bunch right now? Because we have three of us and then you, or they, do they have us in like a Brady Bunch?

• 15:44Speaker 05

  I don't know. I just trust the production. They say yes.

• 15:47Brian Preston?

  Cannot wait to see what this looks like.

• 15:50Speaker 05

  Okay, I do have a question up first from John. It says, super excited to see this collab. So am I.

• 15:56Brian Preston?

  We are too.

• 15:57Speaker 05

  It says, what are your thoughts on ETF versus mutual funds and aggressive versus conservative investing? Would love to see what all three of you have to say about this.

• 16:09Speaker 03

  Okay, so first, how about a very quick vocabulary? And I'll, you know, when we say ETF, that just means an exchange traded fund. It's a basket of stocks, but rather than trading at one time throughout the day, it trades throughout the day similar to a stock. So it's very similar to a mutual fund, but it's more liquid and more able to be traded throughout the day. Mutual funds, same sort of thing. Basket of goods, could be stocks, could be bonds, could be other types of holdings. But rather than having to go out and buy all 500 companies in the S and P 500, you could buy a mutual fund, one holding that represents those. You could buy an ETF of the S and P 500, one holding that holds those. That's kind of the vocabulary difference between the two.

• 16:54Speaker 03

  So Humphrey, what are your thoughts on mutual funds versus ETFs? And then even he tacked on aggressive versus conservative investing?

• 17:01Speaker 04

  Yeah, I would also add that ETFs are typically passively managed, right? Versus a mutual fund usually has an active fund manager that is getting paid based on that performance. So sometimes your expense ratio or your fee that you pay per year for holding that fund is a little higher with a mutual fund, right? Typically in the range of 0.35% to 0.5% or whatever it is. Sometimes even higher, right? There's like those Kathy Wood ones, the Arc Invest ones, those are like 0.75, 0.85% expense ratio. So you really have to think about how your fees impact your overall returns and how they'll eat into your returns over a long period of time. But an ETF is usually passively managed and usually tracks, you know, a specific sector

• 17:41Speaker 04

  or index, and I typically prefer those. Aggressive versus conservative investing, I think it depends on your risk tolerance and your time horizon, right? So if I was 20, I'm probably aggressive, and because I have 45 years until retirement, you know, hopefully I retire earlier, but you know, let's say it's 45 years before a normal retirement, I can probably be more aggressive. And even if I lose some money, it's okay, because I have so much time to make it up. So I would probably err on the side of aggressive as you're younger and want to build that wealth, and then more conservative as you kind of start to need that cash flow. Sure.

• 18:17Speaker 03

  I think one of the other things that people don't realize is that oftentimes, people think, okay, mutual fund, that means it's going to be aggressive, ETF, that means it's going to be aggressive. But there are actually conservative versions of those holdings. There are bond mutual funds, there are bond ETFs. But, Brett, a lot of people, they say, okay, well, I don't, okay, I heard what Humphrey said, I want to be aggressive while I'm young, and I want to get more, but I don't know how, I don't know how to do that. Like, how do I make that adjustment? And what's great is there are some solutions that actually allow you to do that.

• 18:48Brian Preston?

  Yeah, this is, look, we think there's a time and a season for being buck wild aggressive, trying to get as much growth as you can.

• 18:58Speaker 03

  That's the actual risk tolerance.

• 19:01Brian Preston?

  Especially on those Roth accounts, we want you, you know, but it's that balance of you don't want to be so crazy that you, you know, that you risk it and it goes to zero, but you definitely want to maximize growth opportunities. And while you're young, that's a great thing. But then as you get a little gray in your hair and you get a little older, you, it's just like, I love the title of glide path. I mean, that's what, you know, a lot of the mutual fund companies will talk about.

• 19:21Speaker 04

  What's that?

• 19:22Brian Preston?

  Glide paths are, you know, if you think about, we talk about index target retirement funds, where you only have to think about You know, how much you can save each month and when you need it, and then they do the rest of it gets more and more conservative. It's auto, it's auto allocate. You can do the same thing yourself, even with index investing or so I, I think it's, and it's the same way I look at the way I handle my own money with this. People who are trying to be debt crusaders and pay off their low interest, you know, sub 4% mortgages before you're 45 years of age, that they think you're cutting risk, but I think that it's actually cutting your, your chances of making sure you build wealth. But there's a time or season is they be more aggressive while you're under 45, like even

• 20:05Brian Preston?

  on debt crusading, but then when you get over 45 and hopefully have built up your assets and your army of dollars working for you, then you can pivot to, to, to taking the risk off by paying down debt aggressively. So all this stuff is interconnected with how you look at being aggressive versus conservative. And then I'd like to say on the ETF versus mutual funds, a lot of times these things, it's almost like synonyms of each other. If you're doing index investing, like I'm in, I'm in index, my monthly investment that goes in weekly, cause I'm a nut, is an index mutual fund because it's just easy with the custodian that I have to set up an automatic builder. I know I can, I know they've gotten where you can even do this with ETFs, but it's just, it sure is easier.

• 20:46Speaker 03

  That mutual fund is the cheapest version of the S and P 500 out there.

• 20:49Brian Preston?

  It is very, very cheap to buy this, this index mutual fund. But then sometimes when I'm doing tax planning and I need to do some, you know, some loss harvesting or other things, when we're in those type of seasons, I will buy ETFs at the end of the year because it's just a very tax efficient way to, to use those tools. But there, you're not hurting yourself if you buy a index mutual fund or you're not hurting yourself if you buy an index ETF. You just need to know what they are and there aren't. And then, you know, it's okay if you have both in a lot of cases too.

• 21:21Speaker 03

  Love it.

• 21:22Speaker 05

  Yeah. Good stuff. Thank you, John, for the question and for being here in the live stream today.

• 21:26Speaker 04

  Shout out, John.

• 21:27Speaker 05

  All right. This next one's a good one. Let's see if we can help Bianca. She says, hi, Money Guy team. I make around 70K, 75K gross. I invest 25%, but I feel like I'm missing out on life. I've never been on a plane anywhere and I was thinking of taking a second job to help do this. Thoughts?

• 21:47Brian Preston?

  How old is Bianca?

• 21:49Speaker 03

  How old is Bianca? I was gonna ask that question.

• 21:51Speaker 05

  You know what Bianca, if you're out there, let us know.

• 21:52Brian Preston?

  Yeah, please let us know how old you are because I wanted to know how much you're missing out on.

• 21:56Speaker 04

  I'd say by the lower caps that she's probably Gen Z.

• 22:02Speaker 05

  This is not, not bad.

• 22:03Brian Preston?

  Look at the perspective. I love it.

• 22:05Speaker 05

  I think that's very possible. Bianca, let us know.

• 22:07Speaker 03

  You know, do you, do you see a lot, Humphrey, do you come across this a lot in your audience where people are like, man, I'm so committed to the future. I'm so focused on thinking about the future that I have to save. I heard Humphrey say that if I just start investing early, then I'm gonna set myself for success. So much so that they kind of loot, they live so much for the future, they lose track of the present?

• 22:29Speaker 04

  Yeah. Oh, Bianca's 26.

• 22:31Speaker 03

  26, man.

• 22:32Brian Preston?

  26 years of age.

• 22:33Speaker 04

  Nailed it.

• 22:33Speaker 05

  Nailed it.

• 22:34Speaker 04

  1999. That is Gen Z.

• 22:37Speaker 03

  I don't do that kind of math.

• 22:38Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 22:39Brian Preston?

  That's public math.

• 22:39Speaker 03

  Bold. You did that on the fly.

• 22:41Speaker 04

  Um, I do see that a lot and you know, my audience typically over-saves, right? Cause they're watching the channel and you know, I'm always like, hey, get your savings. Savings is 20%, 25%. And you know, in Bianca's case, I think she might be able to lower it to 20%, 15% and maybe enjoy life a little bit. Um, because that, what's the point of money, right? If you're always saving for the future, you're gonna be 65 and you, maybe you, you've missed out on some experiences. So that's what I would say to Bianca is like, if there is room to maybe invest 20%, you can still hit your retirement goals and maybe even more, but still be able to enjoy a little bit of life. I don't know.

• 23:16Brian Preston?

  We actually have a great deliverable that I would tell Bianca and if the team could pull it up. If you go to moneyguy.com/resources, what you should save or you know, cause it's funny, if you're 26 years old, if you look at the cross-reference here for a 25-year-old who's saving 15%, I mean, you pretty much have a replacement ratio close to 100%. If you're doing 20, 133%, 25%, 166.

• 23:40Brian Preston?

  Without a doubt, Bianca, if you tell me, because look, as soon as I hear you haven't even been on an airplane. This, I resemble this so much is because I, I mean, I didn't get to do a lot of fancy vacations and other things as a kid growing up. And I remember the first time I got to fly was my first job and I was going to do an audit and I went and bought a sports coat. Cause I thought that's what you did. You dressed up to go on an airplane. Cause I didn't know anything. You know, coming up from humble beginnings and it sounds like Bianca, you're the same way. This stuff, I don't want you to wake up when you're my age and go, what the heck was I doing in my twenties? Why did I screw up and save? Cause I've seen so many, we were just at this, um, and I got to hang out with, we got to see Humphrey there. The, the just press publish or whatever. And there was a guy, and you're going to tell me the name, uh, cause I, I never remember his name.

• 24:26Brian Preston?

  Who was the like early influencer.

• 24:29Speaker 05

  Casey Nice Dad.

• 24:31Brian Preston?

  I never can remember names. I'm the opposite of Humphrey because he remembers everybody's names. Casey, his whole thing was once he started making big money, he realized how empty it. I know that if you're broke right now, you're like, shut up with this stuff. I hate it when rich people tell me it's horrible to have all this money. No, but I'm telling you, there is a balance there from yes, cover your, cover your basics, do the responsible discipline thing. But there is a thing where you get so just to, you, you, you squander what life is meant to be. If all you do is hoard it in the background. There's a, that's why I say there's a fine line between financial mutant and a financial miser.

• 25:10Brian Preston?

  Cause what Casey was saying is he got to the top of the mountain and realized, oh my gosh, it's so empty here that I haven't built a, put enough life in this. That he was running and screaming from the mountain tops. Go back, go back and go do more stuff. And, and I think that that's the thing I would tell you, Bianca, I don't want you to be in your fifties and go, what was I doing? Yes, I'm wealthy, I'm loaded, but I'm not in my twenties anymore. I'm not going to be in my thirties and I'm going to miss out on a lot of life. So I enjoy every age and decade you're in, bedazzle your basic life. So that you have just a, just a life of no regret.

• 25:46Speaker 04

  I also think that she's doing really good. I mean,

• 25:48Brian Preston?

  Oh, she's crushing it.

• 25:48Speaker 04

  Investing 25%.

• 25:49Brian Preston?

  Crushing it.

• 25:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, saving 25% of 75,000.

• 25:51Brian Preston?

  But that's why we can, we can also tell her it's okay because I have so many people, and I know you do in your audience too, Humphrey, that they don't, they're hard on themselves. They need somebody to kind of coach them and say, it's okay. You know, a lot of, we were picking on financial advisors earlier. Another thing I think we, as financial advisors, we do, a lot of people think we're the Suzy Ormans, I'm aging myself by saying that.

• 26:14Speaker 04

  I know.

• 26:14Brian Preston?

  Because her shows were, no, no, no. It's just the opposite. We are constantly telling people, go do this, go do more, go live your best life, is because sometimes you financial mutants are the hardest on yourself and you need somebody out there giving you perspective and context saying, go enjoy your life.

• 26:32Speaker 03

  Money is nothing more than a tool that allows us to accomplish the goals that we have. But I think so often we forget, not all goals have to be 40 years down the road. Not all goals have to be 20 years down the road. It's okay if one of your goals, Bianca, is to fly in an airplane and go on a trip somewhere, if you use the money that you have right now to help you accomplish that. And so one of the things I tell all people to do is, hey, list what all your goals are, both the long-term, intermediate term, and then short-term. Prioritize how important they are and then make sure your dollars align with that priority. Because if just having a big stack of money at the end of your life is your only goal, then yeah, throw everything at that. But if you have other goals that are not that,

• 27:16Speaker 03

  it's okay to deploy and use your dollars to accomplish those things. We only get one spin on this thing, so you might as well make the most of it while you're here.

• 27:25Brian Preston?

  I do want to, this isn't part of the question, but Humphrey, I have to ask since we've got you sitting here.

• 27:29Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 27:30Brian Preston?

  Bo and I are knuckleheads. We, we went through this whole phase where we even did this thing called Tightwad Nation. Because I mean, I was tight as of tight. I mean, I resembled a lot of Bianca, of, you know, just the way I've lived my life. But I have, but I have, as I've gotten more success, I've eventually traded in my tightwad card. Because I have realized I spend more money on stuff and I felt like I was a hypocrite and I have a no hypocrite policy.

• 27:52Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 27:52Brian Preston?

  What you're, because you're in that stage, you've obviously very successful, but you come from a background where even you said your childhood, you know, you were taught kind of save it, build it.

• 28:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 28:02Brian Preston?

  What's your journey like? I mean, have you felt an evolution with how you've looked at money?

• 28:06Speaker 03

  I think he's asking, were you a tightwad?

• 28:08Brian Preston?

  Yeah.

• 28:08Speaker 03

  Are you a tightwad?

• 28:10Brian Preston?

  Thank you for speaking.

• 28:10Speaker 03

  And then what are you now?

• 28:11Speaker 04

  Yeah, I think I still err on the side of tightwad, but I am not opposed to spending money on experiences now.

• 28:17Brian Preston?

  Right.

• 28:18Speaker 04

  Because I think they bring you a lot of joy and fulfillment, like, you know, just even running the marathon on Sunday, I stayed in a nice hotel that was close to the start line, because I didn't want to walk a mile to the start line, right?

• 28:29Speaker 03

  I will run 26.2 and not walk a foot further.

• 28:32Speaker 04

  Exactly.

• 28:33Speaker 05

  I, I respect that.

• 28:35Speaker 04

  Yeah, so, so I've become more abundant with at least the spending habits. I mean, my father passed away this year, but he passed away with, with, you know, more money than he should have, and he never enjoyed his life. At, towards the end of his life, he was still eating frozen meals, because that's what he was used to.

• 28:50Speaker 03

  He just got, he had conditioned himself.

• 28:51Speaker 04

  He got conditioned to, and he still wanted to fly economy even though he didn't have to. And so I kind of looked at his life and I said, okay, how can I change my habits so that I at least enjoy a little bit of the money, but still, you know, have, have some money for later and perhaps have some money for my future family?

• 29:09Speaker 03

  I love that.

• 29:09Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 29:10Speaker 03

  Love that.

• 29:10Brian Preston?

  But your parents got to see all your success, though?

• 29:13Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 29:14Brian Preston?

  That's a, that's a cool thing.

• 29:14Speaker 04

  My mom's still kicking it, so she's good. She's good. She's not a tightwad.

• 29:18Brian Preston?

  Okay.

• 29:18Speaker 04

  She likes to, she likes to spend the money.

• 29:20Speaker 05

  Good for her.

• 29:21Speaker 04

  She's like, budget? What's that? Yeah, so you know, I also grew up, you know, with a mom who's like, oh, what's a budget? And then my dad's like, no, don't spend any money, so, so I got a really good balance.

• 29:30Speaker 03

  Nice balance.

• 29:30Speaker 04

  A really good balance of like, okay, what's, what's right and what's not right here, yeah, so.

• 29:35Speaker 03

  That's awesome.

• 29:36Speaker 05

  Oh, that's great. Well, Bianca, great question. Thank you so much. I will say, Bianca, you're in this live stream, you're saving 25%. A lot of people can't like, or it takes a while for people to get those basics down. So I love that you're already there, and I think what the guys shared about. Potentially like looking at your goals differently and doing those experiences was amazing and go grab that download money guy.com slash resources. How much did you save?

• 30:02Speaker 03

  My kids, they just like, they want to go on a trip where we fly. They don't care where we go.

• 30:09Speaker 03

  So I literally have thought about what's the cheapest plane ticket that I could buy? Like my whole family to just fly to a city, you know, like Sheboygan, Wisconsin, or whatever.

• 30:19Brian Preston?

  Probably Miami.

• 30:19Speaker 03

  And then fly to Miami.

• 30:21Brian Preston?

  Miami flights are cheap for some reason. I don't know why they're so cheap.

• 30:26Speaker 03

  Can you imagine me pitching my wife on this? Hey sweetheart, we're gonna fly all five of us down to Miami. Soon as we get there, we're just gonna turn around, come right on back.

• 30:36Brian Preston?

  The hotels are not cheap in Miami.

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• 31:40Speaker 05

  All right. I've got another question for you. It's from Derek S. It says, as an early 30 something. Would you consider it dangerous to be solely invested in something like VOO instead of a target date retirement fund? Is this, should, should this, is there, oh, sorry. The wording is funny here. Should there be more diversification than one index? There it is. What do you think?

• 32:06Speaker 03

  This was interesting. I don't know where we're all going to land on this.

• 32:09Brian Preston?

  Oh, man. Yeah, this is, Derek's gonna stir the pot.

• 32:11Speaker 03

  Since you're our guest, we're gonna let you take this one first. Young 30, all VOO, all, you know, all equity. Is that okay?

• 32:20Speaker 04

  So I would question the target date retirement fund because if I'm not mistaken, you guys have to correct me here. Usually a target date retirement fund, when you are 30, is like 90% VOO anyway, right?

• 32:30Speaker 03

  Nailed it.

• 32:31Speaker 04

  It's 90% S and P 500 or 90% market. VOO has 500 and change stocks in it anyways. So I've always viewed that as pretty diversified, but I would like to hear your take on if you would add more bonds or fixed income into that portfolio as an early 30 something. It depends on his goals too, right? I'm not sure.

• 32:51Brian Preston?

  I mean, I'm willing to go first, but I mean, I'll let you.

• 32:55Speaker 03

  No, you go ahead.

• 32:57Brian Preston?

  Look, Bo and I have even debated this and Bo makes some, and I'm gonna let him kind of have the word on it because there was, I tried to craft some rules where I was like, 20 somethings, yeah, just go buy the, you know, total market or S and P 500. I think that those index funds are so strong, but Bo's gonna get into the behavioral stuff that goes with why we say index target retirement funds is because, look, we know in the beginning, it's just the behavior of starting the saving and investing because there's such a battle of consumption out there for 20 somethings that people just don't even start the habit of building 10% or 15% savings rates. So the fact that we're even at this discussion of having, is it okay to do just index funds versus index target retirement funds?

• 33:41Brian Preston?

  You're so ahead of the masses on this because most people don't even have the discipline to get that far. But I'm never gonna beat up, because we even gave advice, I had a studio tour who came through and I found out that they, you know, because they asked the same question. Their index target retirement fund was 10% bonds and they were, um, do you remember how old they were, Bo? They were, were they in their 26?

• 34:01Speaker 03

  26.

• 34:02Brian Preston?

  26 years old. And I was like, well, look, there's, in the Roth accounts. Buy, buy VOO or, or, or buy the total market VTI or whatever you want. And then that way it's going to bring your total allocation to probably a three to 5% bonds, which now you're not going to lose as much sleep about. So you can even balance it out, but, but I, I, I'm not going to pick on you either way. I bet a, a, a financial mutant who's asking in their twenties or even early thirties, these two questions, you're going to come out a winner, both sides. So we're, we're now getting into the, the, we're, we're splitting hairs.

• 34:37Speaker 03

  Well, I, I think that, uh, when it comes to the advice that we give, we want to probabilistically set you up for success. We know that a lot of success in finance is based more on behavior than is based on actual mathematics. Right? Uh, and so I'm going to do this little exercise really quick. This will seem unkind. It's not. Um, Humphrey, at what age did you turn old?

• 34:59Speaker 03

  His response, oh, I'm not, I'm not old.

• 35:00Brian Preston?

  Yeah, I'm not old.

• 35:01Speaker 03

  So now, Brian, at what age did you turn old? And you're going to say, I'm not old.

• 35:06Brian Preston?

  Well, no, I'm going to say, I'm going to say it 50 kicks. It's like a donkey.

• 35:11Speaker 03

  Here's.

• 35:11Brian Preston?

  I don't feel bad, but it's just that everybody looks at you different once you tell them you're in your 50s.

• 35:16Speaker 03

  Here's the reason why I asked that question. I would imagine what you say is, hey, I'm not old yet. I mean, maybe I might be old 10 years. And so we all subjectively assign, oh, I'm still young. I'm still aggressive. I can still, my risk tolerance is still my stuff. And so one of the problems I see with folks in their, in their twenties, they're VOO for life and they get really used to 12, 13, 14% annualized returns because that's when they came through. And then in their thirties, they keep doing the same thing and the numbers get bigger and the bigger the numbers get, the bigger the numbers get. And so then they carry that into their forties. Well, oh, I'm still young in forties. I got 25 working years. I can still be a hundred percent equities. Well, then you get to your 50s, gosh, I'm, I'm not retiring yet. I'm still getting, and you end up to where there, while there should likely be a glide path, it never actually happens. And so

• 35:59Speaker 03

  it's not uncommon. Brian and I, we used to sit down with prospects and they'd sit down with us and they'd be 65, ready to retire. We'd look at their portfolio and say, you've got 97% equities and 3%. And so then we show them, hey, we do an analysis. Here's your current portfolio today and here's what we're recommending. Guys, I've been annualizing 15% per year and you're going to put me in something where I'm only gonna make 7%, 8% per year. And it's a really hard adjustment to make. And then what happens? 2008 happens. And then you have fourth quarter of 2018, you have COVID, you have 2022, and there's these significant downturns and you really do suffer from a very real sequence of return risk in those early years of retirement, early years of financial independence. And so,

• 36:43Speaker 03

  if we can build the behavior early on, that diversification is not bad. Taking some risk off the table is not bad. Having a healthy savings rate that can maybe compensate for me not getting the absolute best return possible every single year is not bad. Because when it comes to investing, when it comes to building wealth, it's more about how much you get to keep over the long term than how much you make this month, this quarter, this year. And so if we can set that behavior, and I think the 30s is a great time to start thinking about that, I don't think that's going to be a bad thing.

• 37:14Brian Preston?

  I want to give some context of, I think when you're in your 20s and 30s, and I'm going to make a plain analogy, we'll bring your fighter pilot in here too. And my 20s and 30s, you can put up with a lot. And you just have the tolerance, you can do it. I mean, that's what I've make the joke all the time is that it seemed reasonable to go on a trip and put 10 guys in one hotel room in my 20s. Now, if I don't have an en suite, I'm like, what are we doing here? It's just, it's funny how your life will change. And I think about all my people who are vu for life, or some semblance of, I'm just gonna be just wild with the aggressiveness all the way up until I retire. It is the analogy, that's why I like the glide path, because you're landing an airplane of life.

• 37:56Brian Preston?

  Can you imagine if you're on a commercial flight, and they are flying you in, and then all of a sudden, they tell you, okay, we're quickly approaching, you know, San Francisco Airport, and then they dive bomb that thing. They circle it in and then skid it in, and you'd be like, oh my God, the trauma you would have would probably make it where you'd never want to fly on an airplane again, is because, yeah, they got you in, but there was a lot of drama and a lot of things that really impacted you. Whereas, I'm telling you, Is you're as a person going to change your life is going to change. Success is going to change you. You're going to, you're going to be, you want a nice, smooth, commercial type landing where the, the pilot is slowly pulling it down to where when you touch it, go wow, what a great landing.

• 38:40Speaker 03

  That was so smooth.

• 38:41Brian Preston?

  That felt so good and you have no drama, trauma that you took with you and that for, you know, if you had a meeting the next morning, you didn't even sleep the night because it was just so traumatic how this thing blew up around you and you were. That's what people do to themselves with investing is that they, that's why they tell me, and that's why people like your father say, I don't want any risk. It's because they're doing it wrong. I mean, if you have to go to where you're just taking all these risks and then it's, it hurts. You, you didn't do it right because a good diversified portfolio should serve you well when you're young and aggressive. And then it should serve you well when you get old and you're starting to dial down the risk.

• 39:14Speaker 04

  Yeah. I want to add one more, and I actually have a question for you guys, you know, recently the stock market's been phenomenal, right? And so that's kind of what we're used to right now.

• 39:23Brian Preston?

  Well, 80% of the time it's phenomenal.

• 39:24Speaker 04

  And, uh, you know, I'm thinking about those downturns that, that you're talking about right now. And right now I have one individual stock position that's up five, five, six X, right? And I don't want to sell it because I don't want to take these capital gains hits. What would you got, what would you guys say to someone like me who has a lot of short-term capital gains and maybe they're becoming long-term soon, but I don't want to take the tax hit?

• 39:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's a, it's a really hard thing because when it comes to stock, I learned, I learned this very early on in my very first investments class. They say when it comes to buying individual stocks, you don't have to make two decisions really, really well. You gotta buy at the right time and you gotta sell at the right time. And oftentimes it's that second one that's really, really difficult because, uh, so whenever we have a client who comes to us and say, I've got this one stock position and I've made a thousand percent or I've gone five X on it or whatever. So, okay. Uh, what would be more painful to you right now? If you're at five X and we saw this really bad downturn and all of a sudden it went to where you're only up two X. And so you lost out on that. Is that more painful or what if you sold it today and you sold it five X and it didn't go to 10 X? And we'll ask that question. And so then a lot of times we'll like ask them, which one of those is more painful for you?

• 40:29Speaker 03

  Okay. That's going to tell me where your bent is in terms of holding it or getting out of it. And once we do decide, okay, maybe. Makes sense for us to begin divesting out of this position. Well, then comes the how. Well, if it's, if I think it's an all time high right now, do I just sell that chunk today? Or do I want to remove a motion from the equation and say, okay, every month I'm going to sell this percent? Or I'm going to sell every quarter, I'm going to sell this many shares. Just like I dollar cost average into position, I can dollar cost average out to try to remove it. If the stock goes up, great. I've still got holdings that are making money. If it goes down, it's okay. I took some of my chips off the table and you can approach it that way. Cause what we want to prevent people from doing is being emotional and making this like knee jerk reaction. That again, changes the way their behavior happens in the future.

• 41:13Speaker 04

  Hmm. Gotcha.

• 41:14Brian Preston?

  I would, you know, I'm going to make this personal because personal finance is very personal.

• 41:18Speaker 04

  Oh, boy.

• 41:19Brian Preston?

  You, you were successful. I imagine this thing, even though it's up five fold, it's probably a small percentage of your total net worth. You might get benefit because I, I have, I have one holding that I'm so proud of. Cause look, I did the same thing. I bought Apple in 2008 and I talk about this in millionaire mission. I sold it after it doubled or tripled. Meanwhile, I have a, a childhood best friend who he bought it. He still owns those shares.

• 41:42Speaker 03

  From 2008.

• 41:43Brian Preston?

  Oh, holy cow. What those shares are worth. It is literally one of those stories where you hear people say, you know, if you bought a thousand dollars worth of Amazon, it turns into a million bucks. Like, nobody does that. There's a few people that do unique things like that. And that's why I highlighted it in the book, but I'm like everybody else. I sold Apple after I made two or three fold. When I bought it in 2008. Well, I have another, I got another lick that I hit in 2018. I bought a stock and, and now I've just decided it's part of my permanent portfolio. I'm just now it's, it's fun for me. Even though this thing, I really think this thing is well, I mean, I'm at the path where this one purchase is going to be worth seven figures off of this one thing.

• 42:25Brian Preston?

  And I'm going to see if he'll do it. I just want to see it. So it's kind of a fun conversation piece, but it's such a small percentage of my total net worth. It just doesn't matter. So for me, and I think for you, you could just, if it's fun for you.

• 42:37Speaker 04

  It's fun.

• 42:38Brian Preston?

  Keep that. But if this was, we have people come to us all the time, even with like an Nvidia, who where this is, but they were. Worked for Nvidia and this is like now 80% of their net worth. I don't care how good a company is, we have to divest you of this. So that you don't have the the Lucent stories and all these other things that I constantly give experience shares on. So for somebody like that, then you have to get out of these investments to make sure it's more balanced from a risk goal perspective. But for you, I think, because do you know how many conversations I get to have about this stock? That I bought in 2018 and now it's going to potentially be seven figures at some point? I mean, that's, that's a fun little conversation. That's a little sweetener of life that you get to share.

• 43:22Speaker 03

  But you can do it, depending on how you acquired it. There are ways to be sophisticated and how you dispose of it. You could do charitable giving with appreciated securities. You can do loss, gain matching to loss harvesting to try to offset it. You can sell specific lots depending on how you bought that. So just because you make the decision to exit a position, doesn't mean you have to take on a big tax hit. There are ways to get around it or at least to minimize that to the best, best of your ability.

• 43:49Brian Preston?

  And I even detailed again, and once I feel like I'm giving a plug for Millionaire Mission, which I am. My, my, my giving strategy uses a lot of appreciated holdings where I even, I will dollar cost average into my same joint account. Kind of what I'm giving to the churches and other things, because it's just, it's a really cool thing. When you get to give those appreciated holdings and then push up the basis, it, it, it's fun.

• 44:14Speaker 03

  Cool. Can I say another behavioral thing I think that, that I think is just wild that people do sometimes? And I bet some of you financial mutants do this. Say I bought Apple in 2008, right? And or whatever, and say I had, I bought $10,000 of it and it's worth 20,000 now. I always tell people, hey, if you're, if you're charitably inclined, you're someone who wants to like give to charity. Why would you not give that appreciated? But I bought it in 2008. I can't go back. I was like, no, no, no. You realize right now, today, you have $20,000 of exposure. If you gift that $20,000 of Apple to the charitable giving account and then you go buy Apple today to 20,000. You still have the exact same investment exposure that you had from that stock you bought back in 2008. You just eradicate the gains. I'm amazed at how many people.

• 44:55Speaker 03

  Not only are anchored to the stock that they bought, they are anchored to the day that they bought that. And that is a fallacy because you don't want those gains. You want to get rid of those out of your portfolio. So even if you have a position you love and you're thinking, oh, I would never get rid of this fill in the blank. No, think about getting, you can always just go rebuy it today and reset your basis.

• 45:16Speaker 04

  Cool. That's a really good tip slash hack.

• 45:19Speaker 03

  I love that.

• 45:20Speaker 04

  Slash tax tip.

• 45:22Speaker 05

  Anything you want to call it.

• 45:24Brian Preston?

  Let's just come up with, we can just come up with all kinds of little things.

• 45:26Speaker 05

  No, that's great. Um, okay. I've got another question queued up for you. This one's a little, I don't know. I'm interested to hear what you're gonna say.

• 45:33Speaker 04

  Oh, boy.

• 45:34Speaker 05

  A little spicy, maybe. Maybe. You see.

• 45:36Speaker 04

  No, I will not do that.

• 45:38Speaker 05

  You be the judge. It says, uh, Sing Sign Speak says, I have low interest student loans from my parents. I'll be 24 when I graduate. So how should I balance my investing and paying them off to preserve their relationship?

• 45:54Speaker 04

  Does this person mean that the parents loaned this person the money?

• 45:59Speaker 05

  That's how I read it. Yes. So it is true. There's like a, like a mathematical component here. There's also a relational component. So I'd love to hear your thoughts.

• 46:08Speaker 03

  I think, I'll start, I'll start with this one as you guys are gathering your thoughts. I think this, uh, sing sign, this is what I would say. Mom, Dad, I love you guys. Um, but I went to moneyguy.com/resources and I downloaded the Financial Order of Operations Deliverable. It's a free copy. It's a nine step process of what I should do with my next dollar. And because I listened to these guys, because I listened to Humphrey Yang, this says right here that I should not begin paying off low interest debt until step nine, Mom and Dad. So like, I'd love, but I, Mom, Dad, I haven't, I, I've done my emergency. I gotta max out my Roth. I gotta max out my HSA. I gotta max out my retirement.

• 46:49Speaker 03

  I gotta be a high person. I'm just not there yet, but Mom and Dad, as soon as I get there, you are number nine on the list. And I think that's the way.

• 46:57Speaker 05

  I think that'll work.

• 46:59Brian Preston?

  Humphrey, I have thoughts, but I want to hear Humphrey's thoughts first.

• 47:02Speaker 05

  I do too.

• 47:03Speaker 04

  I guess my thought would be, it depends on how fragile the relationship is. If it's something that's really important to your parents, maybe set up a little payment plan where monthly you spend a small portion of your income, not a large portion, very small, we're talking 100 bucks a month, maybe, where it goes back to paying your, your parents off, and then maybe you can slowly amp that up over time. But I do agree with you that it should be lower on the priority list of paying off the low interest rate debt, because you, there are a lot of better things you can do with that money, but it depends on your parents. Like, if they're hounding you every month, being like, hey, where's my payment?

• 47:37Speaker 03

  We need that money.

• 47:38Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 47:38Speaker 03

  Where's my money?

• 47:40Speaker 05

  Yeah, I noticed there wasn't anything about, if there was an expectation set in this question. So like, have you already committed to something? Like, have they, have they let you know? Like, so I don't know, that's probably a conversation that just needs to happen.

• 47:52Speaker 03

  How low interest is this debt? Maybe we just refinance at a higher rate with mom and dad. Mom, dad, you gave me this at 2%. What if we refinance at 5%? It's still...

• 48:01Brian Preston?

  I will give the old man answer here, because I'm the only one on this panel that has a 22-year-old daughter.

• 48:07Brian Preston?

  Can I tell you, one of the funnest things about being a parent is if, if you see your children model really good behavior, like critical thinking skills. So if your parents had the ability to where they gave, you know, were able to essentially fund college with a low interest loan, this is ripe fertile ground to have a conversation. That's the first thing I'd do is, is if you have a good relationship, is have a great conversation with your parents about exactly what Bo set up, is that, hey, you know, I'm starting out, I want to do my Roth IRA, I want to do this, but also, I feel this obligation because you guys have paid it forward to me to have this education. I would love to figure out the balance. And if you just have that conversation, do you know the tingle

• 48:50Brian Preston?

  factor your parents will have? Like, yes, this is what I'm talking about. It's connecting everything I've done. And then I would say to your parents, I want to do something, even though I know that this is a step nine of the financial order of operations. I believe it is so important for me to model. I don't know if it's $50 a month, $100 a month. I want you guys, for you to see it as me honoring this gift that y'all have done, the investment you made. But I'm also, I want you to know why it's so low in these beginning stages. Is this more of a... A trophy or a token contribution to thank you for the gift, but then I'm still going to fund my Roth, my 401k and all these other things. And, and I guarantee you, because I, I know I've shared, another plug for the book. Have you written?

• 49:35Brian Preston?

  I don't mean to plug this, but it's just I put all these, I put all these stories in the book. Cause I had, I was on the other side of this is that I remember when I got into my adult life, I realized very quickly how hard it was to be an adult and I got myself in some credit card debt. And I had to call my dad and it was only like $300, but it crushed me to have to call my parents to ask. And I remember when it was time when I, I called them back to say, Hey, I'm ready to pay you back. They're like, no, no, no, don't, don't worry about it. You know, then I'm like, no, no, no, this is a principled moment. And I think if you could have those conversations with your parents, because they made an investment in you and have a principled conversation, use this as a tool. Man, the tingles I get just thinking about that as a parent, you, you will make their year.

• 50:18Brian Preston?

  Because they'll start to see, man, it took, you know, the graph of what I was trying to imprint and share with, with the next generation. Cause we know the stats, you know, every time we do the wealth studies and it's comes from millionaire next door, Ramsey and them and all theirs. And we've done 25,000, even in our own interviews of all the, the financial mutants, you know, 70 to 80% of millionaires are first generation. So that stat only exists if we know the stats that, you know, between 70% disappears in generation two, 90% by generation three. So if your parents, if they had the abilities to pay it forward and now you're actually breaking the trend that creates those stats that we all cite, they're, they're, they're going to be very excited about that.

• 51:04Speaker 04

  Good answer.

• 51:04Speaker 05

  That was great. No, honestly, that was a good, uh, variety of thoughts. All right. I've got another question queued up for you from Makula. It says, how often does Humphrey rebalance his portfolio? Any differences between what the money guys recommend?

• 51:21Speaker 03

  I'll take this question.

• 51:23Speaker 05

  How does Humphrey rebalance his portfolio?

• 51:26Speaker 04

  Honestly, not enough. For someone who makes content on YouTube a lot about personal finance, I admittedly have not rebalanced it in a couple of years, so I should rebalance it this year, probably at the end of this year. Ideally, I would be doing it once a year, but I'd love to hear your take.

• 51:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, so we, I'll tell you the way that I think about this. One of the things I do is because I'm a contributor accumulator, I like to think about as I'm making contributions, I'm kind of naturally rebalancing in terms of the asset cloud. I mean, most of it's on autopilot, but every now and then I might just kind of do like a manual override, hey, I need more small cap or I need more international, whatever, whatever that thing may be. For our clients, what we generally target is we want to look at rebalancing generally twice a year, right? And there's no, there's no science of that, but what we would do is we review it. It doesn't mean that we actually place rebalances, but we want to review the allocation with the eye towards rebalancing. And a lot of times it might be, okay, hey, our large cap target is 47% and you're at 48.2, yeah, we're not going to rebalance that.

• 52:24Speaker 03

  We're going to, we're going to allow that to be in an acceptable, acceptable range, but we've at least investigated, right? And then when the market gives us opportunities, we want to make sure that we take advantage of those opportunities. So a lot of people don't recognize that in 2025, this has been a fantastic investment year. It's been a great year for investors. In April, we were down like 19% off the high. So if you were someone who was recently buying or you've recently allocated some dollars, there was a good chance that you had a huge opportunity right there in April of this year to do some loss harvesting, to do some rebalancing, to allocate your dollars in a different way where you could take advantage of that. Now, that's not timing the market, that's being tactical in how you think about your rebalancing.

• 53:06Speaker 03

  So we look for in a, just a normal boring year, looking at it twice a year, but in years we do see those big intra declines, we want to be kind of like dialed in, is now a good time for us to get back to target or make some tweaks that we maybe have not made?

• 53:20Brian Preston?

  I'm willing to be confessional and tell you that I do. Do a better job, and I know all of our advisors here do a better job with rebalancing than I do for myself. Is because it's part of our direct process, what we do for clients. For myself, I will say, because I have a no hypocrisy policy. I like to be transparent with you guys. It's once a year because I do my annual net worth statement once a year. I do charitable giving, you know, off of appreciated holdings that I have and so forth. So those things naturally create when I do the net worth statement. And then also when I'm doing my, just truing up my annual giving. Those are perfect rebalancing opportunities for me to kind of think about it and those create those. So I am doing it, but I'm not doing it as much as if I was a client of the firm.

• 54:04Brian Preston?

  I'm just being confessional about that, but I think that's, but it's once a year would be my answer.

• 54:09Speaker 03

  Love that.

• 54:10Speaker 04

  Well, you guys have inspired me for sure.

• 54:14Speaker 05

  There was a lot of alignment on that one, honestly.

• 54:16Brian Preston?

  Well, create a process. I mean, everything in my life is try to create a system or a process. It's probably why we came up with financial order of operations. Is because I just love thinking about money in a methodical way. So it really makes the good habits that much easier and the bad habits that much harder. Because human nature is, is we let our emotions and all these other things come into play. So if we can create a system that takes all that out, even if you're not doing it as well as you could, it's still getting done.

• 54:41Speaker 03

  Now, brief aside, only because I think from an investment perspective, this is an interesting thought process to go down. So when you, when you rebalance, you're really making two decisions. I'm making the decision to sell something and to buy something else. Well, we believe as investors, oftentimes momentum is a real thing that happens in the markets. There are markets that momentum will carry an asset class on. So I'll use the large cap example again, it is not uncommon for us to look at a rebalance. Okay, this is supposed to be 47%, it's at 48%. If I were to sell that 1%, is there something else in the portfolio that's compelling right now for me to buy? Or if there's nothing compelling for me to buy, I might be okay allowing my portfolio to drift a touch.

• 55:24Speaker 03

  Now, this is where there's a little bit more of an art there than a science. But I don't want people to get so dogmatic in rebalancing. They think, okay, I've got to place trace today. Because a lot of times, a lot of custodians, depending on the fund, there might be charges, there might be, it might not be an inexpensive thing to rebalance. And so I don't want to see you like, I'm selling $7 of this, I'm going to go buy 4.3 and $1 of this. That math doesn't math. But I don't, I want to make sure that when you make a financial decision, when you make a decision in your portfolio, there's a reason you're not, you're making it, you're not just making it for the motion of it.

• 55:58Brian Preston?

  I get upset because I'm not going to name names, but we, asset allocation is important. Because when we do asset allocation, you know, obviously in your retirement accounts, you'll put your fixed income because they're taxed a certain way. And then in your Roth accounts, you'll put growth assets. So we'll, we'll do asset allocation within different account structures. And there is a custodian that does, because we work with clients who might work with a custodian or an employer that gives them like advisors for free and they take that as an executive benefit. And we have these, these custodians that we're like, no, no. In, in this retirement account, we want this allocation. And they're like, no, no, our fiduciary responsibility won't allow us, we have to, and we're like, oh my God, you knuckleheads.

• 56:41Brian Preston?

  You know, so it's, this is why sometimes as financial planners that, you know, it's, you have to be careful with being too dogmatic, where it needs to be more practical of what's the total plan, what's the why? How does it fit into the personal finance situation? Because a lot of these people, that makes me break my system that I just said is because they'll create a system, that's a system for the sake of being a system without really thinking about the whole picture.

• 57:04Speaker 04

  I agree with both of you. I think you gotta really think for yourself too. And not just follow a rule because someone on the internet told you to.

• 57:11Speaker 03

  That's coming from three guys on the internet right now.

• 57:13Speaker 05

  You know, it's true.

• 57:15Speaker 04

  So yeah, so, you know, make sure it fits you and, and, you know, personal finance is personal, as you guys said earlier, so.

• 57:21Speaker 03

  So tune in next week when we, we're going to live rebalance Humphrey's portfolio.

• 57:26Speaker 05

  Well, I like you kind of threw in there that you at least look at it. You don't always have to do the thing.

• 57:30Speaker 04

  Right.

• 57:31Speaker 05

  I think that's a great point.

• 57:32Speaker 04

  I look at it every day, which is unhealthy.

• 57:35Brian Preston?

  Because I mean, we take some flak as that I don't share my income. I don't share my net worth completely. I'm not so transparent.

• 57:40Speaker 04

  I stopped sharing.

• 57:41Brian Preston?

  Yeah.

• 57:42Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 57:43Brian Preston?

  Because it's some people do, some people do share it all. And I'm like, do y'all not have relatives?

• 57:48Speaker 04

  I had people coming up, I had people coming up to me like, oh, how's your balance sheet position doing? I'm like, I don't really want this. Yeah.

• 57:56Speaker 03

  That's funny.

• 57:57Speaker 05

  All right. I've got another one queued up from Mr. Quest. It says, can you be too diversified with individual stocks? I'll hear a new stock and invest in it, but feel like my money's spread too thin. Would it be better to focus on a few strong stocks instead of many?

• 58:18Speaker 03

  I've got very strong feelings.

• 58:20Brian Preston?

  We're gonna let Humphrey say it.

• 58:21Speaker 05

  I knew you guys would want to know what Humphrey's gonna say.

• 58:23Brian Preston?

  I've watched enough of Humphrey's content. I know we're gonna differ a little bit.

• 58:27Speaker 04

  I think if it's held within a Roth account, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm loving the few strong stocks instead of many. But you know, I think I have more of a aggressive approach to things.

• 58:38Speaker 04

  I don't know how many individual stocks this person has, but I do think that, you know, if you're going to be diversified with like 60 individual stocks, you might as well just buy an ETF at that point.

• 58:49Speaker 03

  I love that. I love that so much.

• 58:51Speaker 04

  That's my, that's my take. I personally like to have a few strong stocks in my Roth IRA. In addition to an index fund and I like the aggressive approach that I take and the fact that, oh, maybe I can have like a lot of tax free gains. But that's personally what I do. Would I say that that's what everyone should do? Probably not. I think, you know, again, at the beginning of this live stream, I said, you know, it's probably better to just set it and forget it and not look at it. Probably been, would have been way better off, right?

• 59:20Speaker 05

  What do you think of how he said, I'll hear a new stock and then invest in it?

• 59:24Speaker 04

  That's a little scary.

• 59:25Speaker 05

  Because I know Brian and Bo were gonna say something about it. So I'm curious what you think about that philosophy.

• 59:28Brian Preston?

  Jim Cramer's your friend on that one.

• 59:29Speaker 04

  Yeah, I think that you should probably be doing at least. 30 hours of research before you buy a new stock. Just don't, you know, if, if your mom says to buy, It's a good take. Buy a new stock. Just go for it.

• 59:41Speaker 03

  I'm curious to know what he hears about it. Oh, I heard that this would make 20% last year. I need to buy that. Right. That's, I don't know. That's the way that I base my investment decision making.

• 59:50Brian Preston?

  Okay. I, I, I'm just gonna say, I don't love individual stocks now because look, here, here's the reality of the situation is when you start having some success and then you, you, you start having a growing family. Time is just something I don't have a lot of anymore. And it's, it's, so when, to hear Humphrey say, you gotta invest 30 hours to buy one stock.

• 1:00:12Speaker 03

  Per stock.

• 1:00:12Brian Preston?

  I would end up with just a portfolio of cash. Cause I don't have 30 hours to go find the next stock to do it. So I had to create things, the behaviors that will force it. And that's what always

• 1:00:25Brian Preston?

  like I said, I just hung out with a buddy of mine who was, um, who moved back to Chicago and we were talking. He's like, man, I am so much better off. Since you got me buying index funds. He goes, because he was, we'd sit on his back porch and he'd be, cause when people find out you do finance, they think that the first thing, what's, what stock are you doing? I'm, I don't know. I'm buying an S and P. I'm buying an index fund for myself. And so he would tell me, I remember we used to have so many conversations about Fitbit and all these other things. And, and finally I was like, what are you doing? I mean, you're successful. You know, you know, you're doing all these things. Just buy the index fund. When we were on this trip recently, he was like, you know, I'm so much better off. He goes, when I look at how my index funds are performing and I don't have to put any effort into it whatsoever.

• 1:01:08Brian Preston?

  It, it, it just, I feel like I got time back. I got emotional value back. I mean, there's just a lot of things. So I, look, I think it's like most things on your, your maturity with, with something. This makes me sound like an old man on a porch too, is that when you find a new concept, like if you're come from humble beginnings and you just now understand about investing, you're going to be just so fascinated with the process that I get it because it's a, it's a new hobby. It's a new thing. But I'm just saying, when the practicality of it, because you know, you look at the Spivo research and everything else, the index funds outperform the active managers and you're more. More than likely not going to do better than the active managers yourself. So if you, if you're thinking about this is, you know, actual eating money. This is going to be your retirement money.

• 1:01:51Brian Preston?

  Then I like index funds, ETFs, mutual funds, you choose, you know, your delivery method. If this is fun, because you truly do get so much value of it, treat it like a hobby. But don't let that be, let that be the vacation money, money versus the money and, and, and automate the behavior.

• 1:02:07Speaker 03

  You know, I have, I have a good buddy. He's been in the industry. He's a very successful financial advisor. Been in the industry for a long time now, but when he first became a financial advisor, he was, you know, early on trying to figure out how this all worked. And his dad let him take over a portfolio for him, right? Because, you know, dad wanted support or whatever. And one of the very early things he did is he was able to like sell SMAs, like these separate account managers who are selling.

• 1:02:31Brian Preston?

  Oh, no.

• 1:02:31Speaker 03

  Individuals.

• 1:02:32Brian Preston?

  Oh, gosh. He's talking about me. Keep going.

• 1:02:35Speaker 03

  I was doing so good.

• 1:02:37Brian Preston?

  Keep going.

• 1:02:38Speaker 03

  Thank you for the reveal. This thing, I'm going to have this separate account manager that'll buy all these individual stocks and stuff, right? Well, what ended up happening inside of this advisor's father's portfolio is he'd be like, son, why, why do I own $7 worth of this? And why do I have $9 worth of this? And why do I, and why is my mailbox just full? Or today it'd be, why is my inbox just full of all these prospectuses? It was not adding a ton of value. And frankly, managing a large stock portfolio is pretty difficult. I mean, if you're someone who, who like does like direct indexing, it's a difficult thing to manage that well. And to make sure that you're not getting off on tracking and that sort of thing. And so it's hard.

• 1:03:19Speaker 03

  So before you do it, understand why you're doing it and make sure that it's worth it. Because this same advisor that I'm talking about, he was also an accountant. And so he did a ton of tax returns. He said, one of the most annoying things in the world is when you have one of his like stock picking clients, it's a trader. That would have 500, 600, 800 transactions throughout the course of the year. And every single one of those had to show up on his tax return, right? And you're talking about buying, selling, buying, selling. And it was just an absolute nightmare. So a lot of times make sure when you implement these types of strategies. Is the juice actually worth the squeeze that it's gonna take?

• 1:03:57Speaker 04

  I saw a really funny post on the internet yesterday on like social media. And the title of the post was, do you think my accountant will be mad at me? And the screenshot was 5,523 trades, profit and loss, $80.

• 1:04:09Speaker 03

  Yes, your accountant will be mad at him.

• 1:04:12Brian Preston?

  Well, fortunately, everything's automated now, so you can upload that stuff a lot easier. So you save yourself tons of money. But I want to give some context because I think a lot of you, I want to save you the journey I was on because mine was, there was a pureness of thought on this is that when I started working, the second firm I worked at, super high net worth individuals, a lot of Fortune 500 founders, a lot of professional athletes, celebrities and others, we were managing the, running the money for them. And when I found out I could get access to these separate account, management accounts that such wealthy people were using and my dad's, I mean, it was barely over a hundred thousand dollars, but that was the minimum to get access to these managers. I was like, I'm going to do my father a solid because we don't come from money. I'm going to get him into this stuff because this is what rich people get.

• 1:04:56Brian Preston?

  So if it's good enough for the rich people, it's probably going to be better. And then, because I was new to this whole process too, even though I'm managing money, working as an associate advisor at this large firm that's doing all these celebrities and Fortune 500 people. I quickly realized, oh my gosh, this thing, it's more about the sizzle than the practicality of it. It just wasn't as good as what the brochure, now it's, it's fun to market this stuff because you, rich people stroking that ego, telling them, we're going to give you something that the general public doesn't get, we're going to lock you up for seven to 10 years while we do it. You don't say that part out loud, but you, but this is, this is what you get when you do these type of structures.

• 1:05:37Brian Preston?

  And I thought I was doing my dad a solid, but then I quickly saw the warts on this thing. And that's why even with our wealth management business, you know, we run billions of dollars here. I don't do a lot of the private deals because I saw that, and like I said, it's back to the no hypocrisy policy. I try to treat your money like if it was my money and I learned something very valuable by seeing those, doing what rich people do is sometimes more about the brochure and the sizzle than it is about actually the result that you're getting at the end of the day. So I didn't want y'all to think that I was out there doing, I mean, this is my, my heart really is trying to, but I learned something by putting my own father in that stuff. And I was like, gosh, what am I doing?

• 1:06:20Speaker 05

  No, I think the three of you gave a good picture of like the places where some version of this strategy might be really good, but you have to know yourself. Like personal finance is personal, like you're saying. And there's reasons that we talk about some of the more automated things because that is going to set a lot more people up for success than some of the really specialized, complicated things. So I loved that. Mr. Quest, thank you for the question. And thank you to everyone who joined us for this special live stream with Humphrey.

• 1:06:48Brian Preston?

  Wait, is that it?

• 1:06:49Speaker 05

  It is. We're out of time.

• 1:06:51Brian Preston?

  Oh, my gosh. Humphrey, you're the secret sauce. I feel like the time just moved.

• 1:06:55Speaker 04

  You're welcome.

• 1:06:56Speaker 03

  What are you saying on the normal show?

• 1:06:58Speaker 05

  I know.

• 1:07:01Brian Preston?

  I love doing shows with you, but I mean, that was, I'm like, now I see the timer up there. I'm like, how did an hour pass?

• 1:07:08Speaker 04

  I'll send you an invoice. Okay.

• 1:07:09Brian Preston?

  Gosh, that was way too much fun.

• 1:07:12Speaker 05

  No, here's the good news, though. I agree. This was lovely. And even though we're turning off the cameras right now, we're going to record even more awesome content all together. So be sure to subscribe to Humphrey Yang's channel and the Money Guy Show channel, because there will be videos featuring all three of these wonderful gentlemen coming out soon. So don't miss that.

• 1:07:31Brian Preston?

  Yeah, Humphrey, you're on our platform right now. I mean, is it live stream? Anything you want to share with the audience? Anything you've got, something that you want them to know about or?

• 1:07:37Speaker 04

  No, I mean, I've learned a lot from you guys and I appreciate you guys having me on. And I'm, I'm excited to use the collab feature on YouTube, which is brand new.

• 1:07:45Speaker 05

  It's true.

• 1:07:46Speaker 04

  Basically, it means we can post together. So I'll have a video on my channel. These guys will have a video on your channel and you'll get to see more content. Thank you for tuning into the live stream. Is there anything else we need to say?

• 1:07:57Brian Preston?

  Well, I don't mind sharing because I know when we had Aaron come on, people in the comments, they beat us up. They're like, why didn't you guys do more than just that with Aaron? We have more stuff we're going to be doing too. So there's more to come. This thing, I just got attacked by the microphone. We have more that's going to be coming your way. So we're not going to be squandering this great opportunity because we know what a special thing it is to have Humphrey in studio today. And so more to come. Thank you. Thank you for joining us. I'm your host, Brian.

• 1:08:23Speaker 03

  God, this thing keeps coming at me.

• 1:08:26Brian Preston?

  Joined by Mr. Bo Hanson and of course Humphrey Yang. Thanks guys. Money Guy team, out.

• 1:08:31Speaker 03

  The Money Guy Show is hosted by Brian Preston and Bo Hanson. Brian and Bo are partners with Abound Wealth Management. Abound Wealth Management is a registered investment advisory firm regulated by the Securities and Exchange Commission in accordance and compliance with the securities laws and regulations. Abound Wealth Management does not render or offer to render personalized investment or tax advice through The Money Guy Show. The information provided is for informational purposes only, may not be suitable for all investors, and does not constitute financial, tax, investment, or legal advice. All investments involve a degree of risk, including the risk of loss.

• 1:09:04Speaker 06

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