SYMHC Classics: Mary Winston Jackson

This 2019 episode covers Mary Winston Jackson, best known as the first black woman to become an engineer at NASA. But she also worked to clear the way for other underrepresented people at NASA. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.

• 0:04Holly Frey?

  A rare disease diagnosis can change your life, but it doesn't have to define your future. In season seven of Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, host Martine Hackett continues the conversation with people living with MG, CIDP, and the broader rare disease community, exploring what comes after diagnosis through stories of hope, progress, and connection. Produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Argentix. Listen on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 0:35Tracy V. Wilson?

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• 1:37Tracy V. Wilson?

  The Old Gays are back with Silver Linings, their lovable podcast from iHeart's Ruby Studio in partnership with ViiV Healthcare. Robert, Mick, Bill, and Jessa strut back down memory lane for season two, sharing lessons on life, love, and loss. These are the kind of insights that only come from experience. So tune into Silver Linings with The Old Gays on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 2:06Tracy V. Wilson?

  Happy Saturday. We got a message from a listener recently who was hoping for an episode on a woman aeronautical engineer. You'll hear that email on a forthcoming episode of the show because we recorded some stuff out of order. But we wanted to go ahead and re-release something that was relevant to that request, which is Mary Winston Jackson, first Black woman to be hired as an engineer at NASA before it was known as NASA.

• 2:33Holly Frey?

  At the end of the episode, we talked about the Hidden Figures Congressional Gold Medal Act, which at that point had been introduced in Congress but had not become law. It was signed into law on November 8, 2019, and the ceremony took place in September of 2024. The ceremony honored Katherine Johnson, Dorothy Vaughan, Mary Jackson, and Dr. Christine Darden, whose family members accepted medals on their behalf. It also honored all the other women who served at NASA and its precursor, NACA, as computers, mathematicians, and engineers between the 1930s and the 1970s.

• 3:10Tracy V. Wilson?

  This episode originally came out on February 11, 2019. Enjoy.

• 3:18Holly Frey?

  Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production of iHeartRadio.

• 3:29Tracy V. Wilson?

  Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm Tracy V. Wilson.

• 3:32Holly Frey?

  And I'm Holly Frey.

• 3:33Tracy V. Wilson?

  Folks who have seen the movie Hidden Figures or read Margot Lee Shutterly's book by the same title will probably recognize the name Mary Jackson. She was the first Black woman to become an engineer at NASA, and she's been on my list for an episode for a while. We have a collection about women in STEM fields, but we haven't talked specifically about a woman engineer. And she really hasn't gotten as much recognition as some of the other women who were featured in Hidden Figures, such as Katherine Johnson, who calculated the trajectory for the United States' first human spaceflight and celebrated her 100th birthday in August of 2018. But I didn't realize until I got into this episode just how much Mary Jackson also works to clear the way for other

• 4:18Tracy V. Wilson?

  underrepresented people at NASA. I mean, she changed the whole direction of her career to do this. And in particular, she did a lot to try to make more room for black women in the ranks of NASA engineers. That made me even more excited to talk about her today.

• 4:34Holly Frey?

  Yeah, she's pretty great. And Mary Jackson started working as a computer at the National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics, or the NACA, years before it was absorbed into NASA. So before we get to her specifically, we have to back up and talk a little bit about human computers. If it sounds weird for you to say someone worked as a computer, that is what they were called, human computers, and how Langley Memorial Aeronautical Laboratory, now known as Langley Research Center, came to have a segregated pool of human computers in the 1940s.

• 5:05Tracy V. Wilson?

  There were surely people doing this kind of work in other parts of the world as well. But our focus today is really on Europe and North America. In English, the word "computer," to mean a person who makes calculations or computation, goes all the way back to the early 17th century. Many of these early computers were men. They were apprentices and assistants who were doing this work as part of their education and training to become, say, an astronomer or an engineer. But women have played a really important part, too, especially the wives and sisters and daughters of astronomers and physicists and other scientists, some of whom were scientists in their own right. These women did calculations to support the research of their male

• 5:50Tracy V. Wilson?

  family members, often without ever getting the credit for it.

• 5:54Holly Frey?

  One example is mathematician and astronomer Nicole Renlepot, whose husband Jean-André was France's royal clockmaker. She worked with astronomer Joseph Lalande and mathematician Alexis Clairaut to calculate the return of Halley's comet in 1758.

• 6:11Holly Frey?

  Le Land later said, "For six months, we made calculations from dawn to dusk, sometimes even during the meals. The help given by Madame Laporte was such that without her, I would not have been able to complete such a colossal enterprise." But when Claro published their findings, which were far more accurate than previous predictions had been, he did not acknowledge Laporte's work at all.

• 6:34Tracy V. Wilson?

  The Harvard College Observatory started hiring women as assistants toward the end of the 19th century. They cared for glass plates that were used to record images of the night sky, and they analyzed and recorded the images from those plates, classifying the stars and compiling the data. Observatory Director Edward Charles Pickering, in particular, started hiring a whole group of women computers in 1881. They were nicknamed Pickering's Harem, which was not a particularly nice nickname and nods to sort of a perception that one of the reasons that some of these departments were all women was because the men in charge wanted to be surrounded by young women.

• 7:17Tracy V. Wilson?

  We don't talk about that as much, and other reasons why there were women staffs of computers, but that was a thing, that there was at least the perception was going on. One of the computers at the Harvard College Observatory was Annie Jump Cannon, who developed the method for classifying stars that is still used today.

• 7:37Holly Frey?

  During World War II, hundreds of women worked as computers at the US Army's Ballistic Research Laboratory, doing the math for the firing tables for rockets and artillery. This included civilian women with degrees in math or science, as well as women from the Women's Army Corps.

• 7:53Tracy V. Wilson?

  Women worked as computers at the Manhattan Project, that Los Alamos National Laboratory as well. Some were women with math or physics degrees who had been recruited for that work, and others were the wives of other Los Alamos employees.

• 8:06Holly Frey?

  Thanks to Hidden Figures, today, the idea of a whole department of human computers is heavily associated with Langley and the space race. But within the NACA, computing departments weren't unique to Langley. Other NACA facilities had them as well. They also significantly predate the space program. Langley created its first computing pool in 1935, hiring five women as computers. These women did their calculations by hand with the help of slide rules, mathematical tables, and mechanical calculators.

• 8:40Tracy V. Wilson?

  Before the computing pool was established, Langley's engineers and scientists had been performing all of their calculations themselves. And the idea was that moving the calculating work over to a dedicated department could free up those men to focus on the science and the engineering while also making the process of computing faster and more accurate. That's also why all of those wartime departments were women, because the men were needed to go to combat roles.

• 9:07Holly Frey?

  At first, many of the men who had previously done their own calculations resisted this idea and doubted whether women could do the necessary math. But the creation of the computing group had exactly the outcome the organization had been looking for. It was faster and more accurate. Plus, since women were being hired for the positions, they could be paid much less than the engineers and scientists, whose work they were absorbing.

• 9:34Tracy V. Wilson?

  Of course, we are not endorsing that fact, but the administrators liked it.

• 9:38Holly Frey?

  There's a lot to unpack. It's unfortunate, but that was part of the logic train.

• 9:43Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah, computing was also considered a sub-professional position, while engineering was a professional one. So the top of the ranks for a computer was mathematician, and that was equivalent to an entry-level position for a male engineer. So in other words, the top of the computing ranks lined up with the bottom of the engineering ranks.

• 10:04Holly Frey?

  And that brings us to how this job occupied a complicated spot in the grand scheme of things. Often, women computers were paid significantly more than they might have been in other work that was open to them. Think of things like teaching school. But at the same time, many of the women who were hired to be computers were overqualified for the job. And as we just talked about, they were handling work that had previously been done by men who were higher up in the org chart. Because the computers were women and their jobs were seen as subordinate to those of male engineers, they also faced sexism in a way that they might not have in other industries.

• 10:41Tracy V. Wilson?

  These disparities became even more pronounced when Langley started recruiting black women to work as computers. In July of 1941, Franklin D. Roosevelt signed Executive Order 8802, which said in part, quote, "There shall be no discrimination in the employment of workers in defense industries and in government because of race, creed, color, or national origin." This executive order followed extensive advocacy by A. Philip Randolph and other black labor and civil rights leaders, and it also established the Fair Employment Practices Committee to make sure that order was enforced.

• 11:18Holly Frey?

  This executive order came as the United States was preparing for war. The previous May, the president had called for the US to build 50,000 aircraft. This was a dramatic increase in aircraft production, up from fewer than 100 airplanes a month.

• 11:33Tracy V. Wilson?

  Langley was where aircraft manufacturers were having their high-performance aircraft tested and improved. Langley engineers would put aircraft through test flights and wind tunnels and evaluate their performance and suggest improvements and refinements on the design. The goal was to make aircraft safer, faster, and more effective. So when the president made this call for more aircraft, that gave Langley a lot more work to do. And the NACA had to hire a lot more people across the facility to do it.

• 12:05Holly Frey?

  The expansion was so huge and dramatic that it led to a housing crisis in the area around Langley, addressed in part by building a dormitory to house some of the women. A 372-unit dorm opened in the summer of 1943 with a house mother who locked everything up at 11:00 PM.

• 12:24Tracy V. Wilson?

  At first, a lot of these new hires were white candidates, but before long, there just weren't enough white candidates to fill all the jobs, many of which were intended to be temporary wartime positions and not long-term careers. So after Executive Order 8802, the administration at the NACA started actively recruiting black candidates to fill these jobs. Langley had black employees before this point, but mostly doing things like janitorial work and groundskeeping and food service. This was the first time that Langley had recruited black employees for professional and sub-professional roles.

• 13:00Holly Frey?

  Although the executive order barred discrimination in hiring, Virginia, where Langley is located, was still racially segregated by law. So this newly hired group of Black computers, who started work in 1943, were placed in a segregated section known as the West Computing Group, or just the West Group, in which Black women reported to white supervisors. This also meant adding segregated restrooms and a segregated area of the lunchroom. Segregation was so strictly maintained that many of the white computers and lab employees didn't realize that the West Group even existed.

• 13:37Tracy V. Wilson?

  There was one computer named Miriam Mann, who made it a point of repeatedly removing the colored computer sign that was used to mark the Blacks-only part of the cafeteria. She would just basically take it and put it in her purse and leave. And a few days later, it would show back up on the table again. And all the computers were like, "We know. We know this is where you want us to sit. We know this is our designated area. You don't have to keep pointing it out to us." And her husband was like, "Miriam, they're gonna fire you."

• 14:07Tracy V. Wilson?

  Miriam was kind of like, "Well, they're gonna have to."

• 14:10Holly Frey?

  Right.

• 14:10Tracy V. Wilson?

  She kept doing it until they finally stopped putting the sign there.

• 14:13Holly Frey?

  I'm like, "That would be a firing well-earned, in my opinion." We mentioned a few minutes ago how a woman might be better paid as a computer than she had been while working at another job, while still being overqualified for that computing job. This was particularly true for Black women. Many had done exceptionally well in their study of math and had advanced degrees, years of experience teaching math and science, or both. Many, but certainly not all, of the white computers did not. They might have a math degree, but little to no experience beyond college.

• 14:47Tracy V. Wilson?

  Additionally, teaching was really one of the most prestigious jobs that was available to Black women in the 1940s. Within their communities, Black teachers were really regarded with a lot of respect and admiration. And the increase in pay between working as a teacher and working as a computer could be even more dramatic for Black computers than it was for white ones. Black teachers overwhelmingly taught in segregated schools for Black children, and they tended to have poorer facilities and much lower pay than the schools for white children.

• 15:18Holly Frey?

  But once they got to Langley, these women were just a computer. They were often looked down on by the engineers, whose calculations they were carrying out. Although the women hired as computers typically enjoyed and excelled at math, other people perceived that work as tedious drudgery. It could almost feel like a simultaneous step up and a step down. And for many of the women, the fact that they were doing critical wartime work at a facility as prestigious as Langley, but still being segregated by their race, was even more galling.

• 15:51Tracy V. Wilson?

  It was a little bit later, but still into the same world that Mary Jackson stepped when she got hired to work at Langley, and we will get to her after a sponsor break.

• 16:03Speaker 04

  First thought is like, wow, how are we going to do all this?

• 16:06Tracy V. Wilson?

  Hey, everybody. It's Tracy from Stuff You Missed in History Class. That's Alan Goya, a planning engineer at AT&T. He's talking about Intuit Dome, home of the Los Angeles Clippers, where every seat, screen, phone, and transaction is connected with AT&T fiber and 5G, defining the fan's experience. And Alan's master plan made it all possible.

• 16:27Speaker 04

  It was going to rival anything that was already built, and that takes quite a bit of people and different teams to all be on the same page.

• 16:34Tracy V. Wilson?

  That includes field services manager Drexel Jones. His team made sure it all came together and held up on game day.

• 16:41Speaker 05

  Through what Alan's whole crew designed, we connected the event visitors to the world.

• 16:47Tracy V. Wilson?

  And after years of hard work and collaboration, it was opening night.

• 16:50Speaker 05

  To actually see the whole stadium light up and data's flowing is a beautiful thing.

• 16:55Speaker 04

  What the fans experience is incredible. It gave me a lot of pride.

• 16:58Tracy V. Wilson?

  AT&T, connecting fans to what they love.

• 17:01Speaker 06

  Connecting changes everything. AT&T.

• 17:04Tracy V. Wilson?

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• 18:11Holly Frey?

  We've all done it. Tumble down an internet rabbit hole trying to self diagnose. And sometimes doing our own research can leave us more anxious than informed. Your feed is packed with wellness trends telling you to cold plunge, protein max, detox, track your sleep. But what's actually real? What's exaggerated? What's just wrong? That's exactly what Health vs. Hype from the American Medical Association and iHeart Media's Ruby Studio is here to find out. Each episode, Emmy nominated science communicator Trace Dominguez, who's racked up billions of views across PBS, Discovery Channel, and YouTube, talks to doctors, influencers, and real people trying these trends. Not

• 18:53Holly Frey?

  to cancel them, not to hype them more, but to actually understand them. Because when it comes to your health, who you listen to matters. Start asking better questions and listen to Health vs. Hype on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 19:14Tracy V. Wilson?

  Guess who's back in the house? The old gays return for season two of Silver Linings, their hit podcast from iHeart's Ruby Studio in partnership with ViiV Healthcare. Just wait until you hear what hosts Robert McMillan and Jess A. have in store this time around. They strut back down memory lane navigating life, love, loss, and everything that shaped them along the way. And as usual, someone just might break into song. From leather bars to bathhouses, dance floors to drag brunch, nothing stays off limits. These are the kinds of insights that can only come from

• 19:47Holly Frey?

  From experience. So, listen to your elders, honey, and discover the silver linings you can take with you. All sass, zero filter, and decades of perspective from four friends proving that queer joy only gets better with age on the podcast that never gets old. Listen to Silver Linings, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 20:19Tracy V. Wilson?

  Mary Jackson was born Mary Winston on April 9, 1921, in Hampton, Virginia, not far away from Langley. She was from a large family, and her parents, Ella and Frank Winston, were extremely focused on making sure all of their children got a good education and were really good citizens and role models.

• 20:37Holly Frey?

  Mary attended high school at George P. Phoenix Training School, which was on the campus of Hampton Institute, which is now Hampton University. Hampton Institute has actually come up on the show before. Most recently, it is where Susan LaFleche-Picot continued her studies before going to medical school and becoming the first Native American woman in the US to earn an M.D.

• 20:59Tracy V. Wilson?

  Hampton Institute was founded in 1868 to teach trade and industrial skills to freed people as well as to train them to become teachers. By the 1920s, it had become a college with numerous courses of study. The city of Hampton didn't provide education for Black children beyond elementary school. So, the Hampton Institute had established Phoenix Training School for that purpose.

• 21:23Holly Frey?

  Mary graduated from Phoenix with highest honors and went on to college at the Hampton Institute. She expected that she would become a teacher, but she pushed herself to finish a double major in mathematics and physical science, even though that was a far more strenuous course of study than she would need to teach. She graduated in 1942 and was soon hired as a teacher at a segregated school for Black students in Maryland.

• 21:48Tracy V. Wilson?

  About a year later, Mary moved back home. Her father had become ill, and she came back to help look after him. But she found that she couldn't get a teaching job back in Hampton. Two of her sisters were already teaching in Hampton, and there were nepotism rules that kept her from being able to join them. So, she had to find a job somewhere else.

• 22:07Holly Frey?

  She started out as the secretary at the King Street USO, doing everything from keeping the books to acting as a hostess. The King Street USO was one of the many USO centers established to serve Black members of the military. The USO had a policy of serving the entire military regardless of race, but a lot of places had segregated USO centers for reasons ranging from Black service members requesting them to Jim Crow laws requiring them.

• 22:34Tracy V. Wilson?

  Mary worked at the King Street USO until the end of World War II, and it was there that she met her husband Levi Jackson, who was a serviceman from Alabama. They got married in 1944, and in 1946, they had their first child together, a son who was also named Levi.

• 22:49Holly Frey?

  Throughout all this, Jackson was active with the Bethel AME Church, where she and her family had long been members. She also started serving as a leader for the church's Girl Scout troop, which she would do for about 30 years. She did not yet have a daughter. Her daughter Carolyn was born several years later, but she loved the Girl Scouts. She was a teacher, a mentor, and a big sister for the girls in the troop, many of whom were from working class and poor families, with parents who did agricultural or domestic work.

• 23:19Tracy V. Wilson?

  While she was working as the Girl Scout leader, Jackson started doing something that would also be a hallmark of her time at NASA and before that, the NACA. She really wanted the girls that she worked with to see what was possible beyond what was familiar to or expected of them, and she wanted to open as many doors for them as she could. So she arranged all kinds of field trips and projects aligned with all the various merit badges to really try to broaden their experience of the world and encourage them to set really ambitious goals for themselves. Later on, Jackson would also play a key role in integrating the Black and White Girl Scout councils in the area into one integrated council in her part of Virginia.

• 23:59Holly Frey?

  Jackson returned to work when Levi Jr. turned four. She applied for a clerical position with the Army and a computing position at Langley. The offer from the Army came first, and she worked there for a few months before being offered the computer job at Langley, where the Army agreed her skills would be of better use. She started her job as one of the West Area Computers on April 5, 1951, at the age of 26.

• 24:25Tracy V. Wilson?

  That was just a few months after Dorothy Vaughn became the head of the West Area Computers, having started out as one of the West Area's mathematicians. This made Vaughn the first Black supervisor at Langley.

• 24:37Holly Frey?

  This was almost three years after President Harry Truman had signed executive orders 9980 and 9981. That happened on July 26, 1948, and ordered the desegregation of the federal workforce and the US Armed Forces. But segregation was still required by law in Virginia. That had not changed. So when Jackson started work at Langley, the West Area Computers were still, in the words of Administrative Officer Kemble Johnson, quote, "composed entirely of Negro women." The restroom and cafeteria facilities were also still segregated.

• 25:12Tracy V. Wilson?

  It had, however, become a lot more common for the West Area Computers to be assigned out to other departments at Langley for periods of days to months to work on specific projects. This became more and more common as the white East Area Computers shrank in number as their members were promoted or permanently transferred into other departments.

• 25:34Holly Frey?

  In 1953, after two years in the West Computing Group, Mary Jackson was assigned to a project on Langley's east side, along with several white computers. Jackson didn't know the layout of the buildings on the east side at all. And when she asked her coworkers from that side of the campus for directions to the restroom, they pointedly told her that they did not know where her restroom was.

• 25:56Tracy V. Wilson?

  Jackson was frustrated and angry, not just about the insult of her bathroom and the dismissive way that her colleagues had talked to her, but also about being a second-class citizen at Langley because of her race, even though she was a computer and she had more experience than some of her colleagues did. Later that day, she ran into Keszmeres Zarneki, who worked at Langley's supersonic pressure tunnel. He asked how she was doing, and she answered him honestly.

• 26:24Holly Frey?

  From a number of angles, it was socially unacceptable for a black person to unload their feelings on a white person, especially when it came to racism and discrimination. And it's not entirely clear whether Jackson had just gotten so fed up that she lost her temper or whether she had perceived Zarneki, who had immigrated from Poland, as someone it was safe to be candid with. But either way, Zarneki asked her why she didn't come work for him, and she agreed to. And this was before he learned that she had majored in both math and science.

• 26:56Tracy V. Wilson?

  We don't want to imply that these racial disparities and who it's OK to vent feelings to. We don't want to imply that those disparities are gone. But... That was what was happening at the time. So, uh, Jackson really made a name for herself almost immediately in this, in this new department when she completed some calculations for John Becker, who was the chief of the compressibility division and was multiple rungs up the ladder above Zernicki. Jackson's final numbers didn't look quite right, and Becker insisted that they were wrong, but Jackson insisted that they were right. It turned out that Jackson had done all the calculations flawlessly, but the data that Becker had given her to start with was wrong.

• 27:40Tracy V. Wilson?

  This earned her an apology and praise not only for her skill, but also her confidence and her insight.

• 27:45Holly Frey?

  Zernicki soon suggested Jackson join the engineer training program. The NACA had very few women engineers at all and no black women engineers. The engineer training program required after-work classes from the University of Virginia, which were held at Hampton High School, which was still whites only. So to take the needed courses to become an engineer, Jackson had to get a special dispensation from the city of Hampton to allow her to take the classes that she needed.

• 28:14Tracy V. Wilson?

  She did, and in 1958, after she finished her courses, Mary Jackson was promoted to engineer. This made her the NACA's first black woman engineer and possibly the first black woman working as an aeronautical engineer anywhere in the United States.

• 28:30Holly Frey?

  1958 was a year of big changes at Langley, and we're going to get to those after we first pause for another sponsor break.

• 28:41Holly Frey?

  We've all done it, tumble down an internet rabbit hole trying to self-diagnose. And sometimes doing our own research can leave us more anxious than informed. Your feed is packed with wellness trends telling you to cold plunge, protein max, detox, track your sleep. But what's actually real? What's exaggerated? What's just wrong? That's exactly what Health vs. Hype from the American Medical Association and iHeartMedia's Ruby Studio is here to find out. Each episode, Emmy-nominated science communicator Trace Dominguez, who's racked up billions of views across PBS Discovery Channel and YouTube talks to doctors, influencers, and real people trying

• 29:22Holly Frey?

  these trends, not to cancel them, not to hype them more, but to actually understand them. Because when it comes to your health, who you listen to matters. Start asking better questions and listen to Help Versus Hype on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 29:44Tracy V. Wilson?

  Guess who's back in the house? The old gays return for season two of Silver Linings, their hit podcast from iHeart's Ruby Studio in partnership with ViiV Healthcare. Just wait until you hear what hosts Robert McMillan and Jess A. have in store this time around. They strut back down memory lane navigating life, love, loss, and everything that shaped them along the way. And as usual, someone just might break into song. From leather bars to bathhouses, dance floors to drag brunch, nothing stays off limits. These are the kinds of insights that can only come from experience. So listen to your elders, honey, and discover the silver linings you can take with you. All sass, zero filter,

• 30:25Tracy V. Wilson?

  and decades of perspective from four friends proving that queer joy only gets better with age on the podcast that never gets old. Listen to Silver Linings, available on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 30:43Speaker 07

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• 31:39Tracy V. Wilson?

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• 32:55Tracy V. Wilson?

  In 1958, the NACA and other similar organizations were merged together into the National Aeronautics and Space Administration, or NASA. As part of that whole process, the West Area Computing Group, which at that point was the last segregated department in the organization, was finally formally disbanded. There were only nine employees of the West Computers by then, including Dorothy Vaughn, who had been running it for seven years at that point.

• 33:21Holly Frey?

  Those remaining computers were moved to various engineering groups around Langley, and Vaughn was one of the ones who started working with the IBM computers that were gradually making human computers obsolete.

• 33:33Holly Frey?

  Women who had been working with mathematical tables and mechanical calculators began working with punch cards instead. Mathematicians were gradually replaced by data analysts. And the teams working with the IBM computers were integrated in terms of both race and gender, although over time, more and more of the data analysts were young men.

• 33:52Tracy V. Wilson?

  Mary Jackson co-authored her first paper in 1958 as well. "Effects of Nose Angle and Mach Number on Transition on Cones at Supersonic Speeds." She continued to work with Zarnaki at the supersonic pressure tunnel.

• 34:07Holly Frey?

  In addition to her work as an engineer, Jackson informally mentored women and minorities, especially the ones who were hoping to get promoted into engineering roles. In a way, she was replicating and building on something that had always existed at the West Computing Group. Because they were segregated from the white staff, the West Computing Group had developed a deep network of support and resources among themselves. This gave them the tools to try to mitigate some of the racial discrimination that they faced on the job, something that black men, who were scattered across the organization, could struggle with. So as Jackson mentored people, she tried to maintain that support network, including connecting to the former West Group computers, who were now working in other parts of the organization.

• 34:50Tracy V. Wilson?

  As the space race wound down and the US aeronautics industry became less focused on the idea of supersonic transport, Langley went through numerous reorgs and reductions in force. Jackson continued to work in the supersonic pressure tunnel, specializing in how air behaves in proximity to supersonic aircraft. She took classes in the programming language Fortran to be able to work with IBM computers as well.

• 35:17Holly Frey?

  But eventually, her career hit a glass ceiling. Staff at Langley were paid according to the Civil Service Pay Scale, known as the GS Scale, which ranks people in pay grades from 1 to 15. Jackson got up to GS 12, which was the top of the non-management scale for her role. There were very few women at Langley in grade GS 13 or above. And Jackson found that no matter how hard she worked, she just could not get to that next level.

• 35:44Tracy V. Wilson?

  In 1979, Casemiroz Zarnaki retired. And by that point, Jackson had written or co-written 12 technical publications for NASA and its predecessor. But rather than continuing to struggle for another promotion that seemed like it would just never come, she decided to change directions. A position had opened up as Langley's Federal Women's Program Manager. This was a role that would let Jackson focus on what she had been doing informally, as well as through the committees that she had been on at work. And it was also a demotion down to GS 11, which she willingly accepted for the sake of helping other people.

• 36:20Holly Frey?

  In 1981, she was offered the role of Equal Opportunity Specialist, and she went to Washington DC to train for it. She spent the last years of her career at NASA focused on making sure women and minorities had equal opportunities at Langley.

• 36:35Tracy V. Wilson?

  In these roles, Jackson took a more formal approach to the mentoring that she had been doing while she was still an engineer. She realized that a lot of the people who seemed like they were being overlooked for promotions had basically the same degree and experience as their peers, but they might be missing one particular course or one specific skill. She started intentionally seeking out people who fit this pattern to encourage them to go take that one class they needed to close the gap. But she paid particular attention to women in the lower ranks of the organization who had the right skills and background otherwise to become an engineer.

• 37:11Holly Frey?

  She also kept this focus outside of work, working as a Girl Scout leader and doing extensive lecturing and workshops at high schools in her area, demonstrating for students that neither engineering nor Langley was a world reserved only for white men. She said of this work, quote, "Sometimes they are not aware of the number of black scientists and don't even know of the career opportunities until it is too late."

• 37:34Tracy V. Wilson?

  Jackson retired from Langley in 1985. She kept up her volunteer, community, and church work after retiring, and she died on February 11, 2005, at the age of 83. She died in a retirement home in Hampton, Virginia, and was survived by her children as well as grandchildren and great-grandchildren.

• 37:52Holly Frey?

  In 2018, the Salt Lake City Board of Education unanimously voted that Jackson Elementary School in Salt Lake City, previously named for President Andrew Jackson, would be renamed Mary W. Jackson Elementary School.

• 38:06Tracy V. Wilson?

  That same year, the US Senate passed the Hidden Figures Congressional Gold Medal Act, which would award the Congressional Gold Medal to Catherine Johnson, Dorothy Vaughn, Mary Jackson, and Dr. Christine Darden. Darden was the first Black person of any gender to be promoted to the senior executive service at Langley. The House referred the bill to a committee in November of 2018. As of when we are recording this, which is the end of January 2019, there have not been further updates on it, perhaps unsurprisingly, given what January was like in the government.

• 38:40Holly Frey?

  That is true. Oh, Mary, I love her so much.

• 38:45Tracy V. Wilson?

  I do, too. If you want to learn more about the computers and more about like life at Langley during all this time, really do go read Hidden Figures. You can also, if you like, go amuse yourself by reading the one-star reviews of the book Hidden Figures by people who clearly thought they were signing up to read a novel.

• 39:11Holly Frey?

  Oh, whoops.

• 39:12Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah, things like, "This book introduces 10 new characters in a paragraph and then just never follows up on them again."

• 39:21Tracy V. Wilson?

  Those weren't characters, honey, they were people.

• 39:24Holly Frey?

  They were people. Oh, bless their hearts.

• 39:32Tracy V. Wilson?

  Thanks so much for joining us on this Saturday. If you'd like to send us a note, our email address is [email protected]. And you can subscribe to the show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

• 39:54Holly Frey?

  A rare disease diagnosis can change your life, but it doesn't have to define your future. In season seven of Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, host Martine Hackett continues the conversation with people living with MG, CIDP, and the broader rare disease community, exploring what comes after diagnosis.

• 40:14Holly Frey?

  Through stories of hope, progress and connection. Produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Argenx. Listen on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 40:25Tracy V. Wilson?

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• 41:10Tracy V. Wilson?

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• 41:32Speaker 07

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• 42:00Speaker 00

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