Trust Your Kids with Mara Brock Akil

On today’s episode, Girlfriends and Forever creator Mara Brock Akil joins Michelle and Craig to talk about her incredible career, and how her children have inspired her current projects. The group discusses navigating the teen and early adult years, giving their teenagers more freedom, and figuring out how to build and improve on your personal foundation. Plus, Mara spills on the possibility of a Girlfriends movie! Have a question you want answered? Write to us at imopod.com http://imopod.com. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Michelle Obama?

  Well, there are a lot of young black people that they get into college and they don't, they've never had.

• 0:06Speaker 01

  They've never, I don't think that's healthy.

• 0:07Michelle Obama?

  A boyfriend or girlfriend.

• 0:08Speaker 01

  I don't think that's healthy.

• 0:08Michelle Obama?

  I totally agree with you.

• 0:09Speaker 01

  I don't think.

• 0:10Michelle Obama?

  And a lot of that comes from being in all white environments as a black kid.

• 0:15Speaker 01

  Not to be felt like someone who likes you, even if it's for a week.

• 0:19Michelle Obama?

  Yes.

• 0:20Speaker 01

  There's no memory of a mutual desire and how to negotiate those feelings. There's no place for them to even practice those practices we're talking about.

• 0:30Michelle Obama?

  I always thought that black boys had it easier. This is my ignorance because I grew up with daughters.

• 0:41Michelle Obama?

  This episode is brought to you by Rivian.

• 0:47Michelle Obama?

  You got on your island wear.

• 0:48Craig Robinson?

  I got my Vineyard wear on.

• 0:50Michelle Obama?

  Well, howdy doody.

• 0:51Craig Robinson?

  How you doing?

• 0:52Michelle Obama?

  I'm good, I'm good. We are in this beautiful barn.

• 0:57Craig Robinson?

  On Martha's Vineyard.

• 0:58Michelle Obama?

  Up Island in Chillmark and it's just a beautiful, beautiful place to record.

• 1:06Craig Robinson?

  And would you do me the favor of explaining up island like you explained it to me? Because I was thinking up meant over, but up actually means up.

• 1:15Michelle Obama?

  This is the higher elevation of the island. So you have more rocky cliffs over the ocean. If there are beaches, they are rocky and sandy. Whereas, you know, down island where Edgar Town, Opluks are, it's flatter. It's more, you know, the elevation is closer to the ocean. So, you know, it's sort of the sandier beaches are there. So we are up island.

• 1:41Craig Robinson?

  Well, speaking of up island and all the rocky roads, this is the perfect place to test out the Rivians that we were given by Rivian.

• 1:52Michelle Obama?

  This is the perfect terrain for Rivian owners. It is the perfect lifestyle.

• 2:00Craig Robinson?

  Yes.

• 2:01Michelle Obama?

  Because you have beaches, you've got the back roads. You need to be able to lift that vehicle up, lower it down. And I have driven my Rivian. In here.

• 2:10Craig Robinson?

  I am.

• 2:11Michelle Obama?

  The ones we were gifted.

• 2:12Craig Robinson?

  I'm so excited about.

• 2:14Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 2:14Craig Robinson?

  Getting a chance to drive there. It's really nice, isn't it?

• 2:17Michelle Obama?

  It's really nice. It's really easy to drive. And when you're going over these bumpy roads, you really don't feel it in the car because it sits up so high. So I really love it. So.

• 2:27Craig Robinson?

  We're excited today.

• 2:29Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, we've got a great guest, um, somebody that I have been watching from afar, uh, hoping to get to spend some time with. So I feel like, you know, this is the fun thing about this podcast. I get to meet people that I have admired from afar and spend some time with them.

• 2:46Craig Robinson?

  And unlike, uh, well, like you, I've admired her from afar, but just through her work.

• 2:50Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 2:51Craig Robinson?

  And, uh, she is, um, the mastermind behind some iconic shows. So, uh, let me get right to her bio. Mara Brockakil is a television writer and producer credited with 400 episodes of television, including one of my all time favorites girlfriends that I'm, I hope we can dig into a little bit here. The game, Being Mary Jane, and, and in most recent fan favorite and critically acclaimed, and a, and a new Robinson favorite. So our whole family watched this whole series together forever.

• 3:35Craig Robinson?

  So without further ado, Mara Brockakil, come on out.

• 3:39Michelle Obama?

  Mara.

• 3:42Speaker 01

  Welcome to my MO. Thank you. Oh my gosh, I am so happy to be.

• 3:48Michelle Obama?

  You are here. You are here. You are here. Yes, girl. Yes.

• 3:53Speaker 01

  Oh my goodness.

• 3:54Michelle Obama?

  Welcome, welcome.

• 3:56Speaker 01

  You've been watching me from afar. I don't want to be your friend forever.

• 3:58Michelle Obama?

  I have. I just, you know, I'm, I, first of all, you're beautiful.

• 4:02Speaker 01

  Oh my goodness.

• 4:03Michelle Obama?

  You know.

• 4:03Speaker 01

  Thank you. Right back at you.

• 4:05Michelle Obama?

  And I'm just like, who is this badass, beautiful woman who is involved in everything? And just sort of killing the game. So I have really been a fan. And we actually got to meet a couple of days ago.

• 4:23Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 4:23Michelle Obama?

  Because a good friend of our mutual friend Tracy brought you to Barack's Birthday Bash here. He always, we celebrate his birthday and have a little barbecue. So I was just thrilled when you walked in the door.

• 4:36Speaker 01

  Oh, my goodness. It was so, it was, it was, it was quite a moment for me. I had to, you know, so much respect for you and your family. And to be that close proximity and, and how loving I was, you know, it was a beautiful time. And you're like, oh, you know, you guys are who you are. But I, what I love mostly is that you are a family first.

• 5:02Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, that's true.

• 5:04Speaker 01

  And just regular, regular people having a good time, having a good barbecue, some good food.

• 5:08Michelle Obama?

  Doing a little electric slide, the babies dancing in the middle of the floor.

• 5:12Speaker 01

  But you do, you come in first. And there was a moment that I really just, I just thank God. I love being there. I love being there for what it represents. But then we take that breath. You're like, oh, yeah, we're just here together, having a good time on the Vineyard.

• 5:26Michelle Obama?

  Well, that's what the Vineyard represents.

• 5:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:29Michelle Obama?

  To us, and I know to you, you were a long time.

• 5:32Speaker 01

  Been coming for 14 years.

• 5:34Michelle Obama?

  For 14 years.

• 5:35Speaker 01

  And my first, well, technically 15 years. My, I talk about Ralph Farquhar all the time.

• 5:41Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 5:41Speaker 01

  But, you know, it's important to have.

• 5:43Michelle Obama?

  Talk for our listeners, so people know who he is.

• 5:45Speaker 01

  So Ralph Farquhar is a, an amazing storyteller himself, known as a showrunner. But he has, I, I met him when he was. Well, he was my boss on Moesha.

• 5:57Michelle Obama?

  Mm hmm.

• 5:58Speaker 01

  So then back up on South Central.

• 6:00Michelle Obama?

  See, you've had so many shows.

• 6:01Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 6:02Michelle Obama?

  He's like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

• 6:03Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, whoa, whoa, whoa. He's had so many shows. I think his career started in Happy Days. And he's talking about this place called Martha's Vineyard. And black people descend upon the island. What? I was like, we're like birds. We're migrating over here or something. And the way he talked about it, I just wanted to see it, touch it, feel it. And I came, and I'll never forget this because music is, it guides my work, but it guides my life and my memory. And Jay-Z's Reasonable Doubt had just dropped.

• 6:32Michelle Obama?

  Uh huh. So you can remember by this, what dropped?

• 6:35Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 6:36Michelle Obama?

  And it's like the summer playlist.

• 6:38Speaker 01

  It's the summer. It was interesting too, because it was in July. And it was a younger, it's a different August, it's a different island in July than it is in August.

• 6:49Michelle Obama?

  It definitely is.

• 6:50Speaker 01

  And it was younger people hanging out together, partying a lot.

• 6:54Michelle Obama?

  How old were you on your first?

• 6:57Speaker 01

  I'll leave it there.

• 6:58Michelle Obama?

  If we do the math, how old?

• 7:00Speaker 01

  I was 20 and I was 26. So that was my first time. So then later, when we came on the island, it was right after jumping the broom. And just wanting to be here and learning the legacy, learning about the island more historically and not just from a party perspective.

• 7:22Michelle Obama?

  Yes.

• 7:22Speaker 01

  It was just, this is where we needed to be. In fact, vacationing sometimes, was just tired to be in the only black family sometimes in these beautiful places. But to come to this island and see each other and get the rest restoration, the joy, the laughter, the food, the safety.

• 7:41Michelle Obama?

  The safety.

• 7:41Speaker 01

  In numbers, but in, but also you can chill out.

• 7:45Michelle Obama?

  But it's a place where kids and little black boys and black girls, they can find love and they can stand in groups and not be bothered. They can loiter like kids should be able to do and feel safe and parents don't have to worry.

• 8:01Speaker 01

  They can see themselves in others as well. You know, can feel that freedom together, can have those memories of what your nervous system feels like when it feels safe. So you actually know the difference.

• 8:15Michelle Obama?

  Yeah. And we'll talk more about this when we get into our favorite show.

• 8:21Speaker 01

  Oh, I love how you guys say that. Truly, truly, forever we are talking about, but we're gonna talk more about that.

• 8:29Craig Robinson?

  And before we dig into the show, you know, I wanna know what was your relationship with your older brother like?

• 8:37Speaker 01

  Oh, my goodness. Shout out to my brother. I lost him a few years ago. Thank you, thank you. I, we had a very passionate sibling relationship. We talked a lot, we argued a lot.

• 8:53Craig Robinson?

  And what's the age difference?

• 8:54Speaker 01

  He, um, he's three years older.

• 8:57Craig Robinson?

  Okay.

• 8:57Speaker 01

  He's three years older.

• 8:58Craig Robinson?

  Similar.

• 8:58Speaker 01

  You know, I wanna say this too, cuz I really believe it. Our relationship is still thriving and growing. I feel his energy around me all the time. We have an angel number that lets me know that he's nearby. And a hundred times I'll ask him, "Yo, where are you? Because I need you right now." And one of the things that we often talked about, he really wanted to be, um, he was the only, um, sort of, he was the only man in our family for a very long time, in a family full of women. And he felt such a responsibility to being the man and making it financially successful.

• 9:40Speaker 01

  And, um, and I think about him a lot in his, in his, you know, just compassion for, for what he was going through. And he didn't need to put that pressure on himself. You know, I think about that sometimes. But now, I experience him, I feel his COO presence on me. I was like, "Come on, let's go help me build, help me." And I hope I don't sound, you know, I'm not gonna own that. I know I don't sound weird. I really believe in the spiritual connection still. He's not in body anymore, but he is in spirit with me. But are we, he was my big brother, you know? Even if we argued, you couldn't argue with me, though. See what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? Sounds familiar.

• 10:25Speaker 01

  You couldn't argue with me, you know?

• 10:27Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 10:28Speaker 01

  Back up, you know? It's like, that's my, you know, that's my sister. It was funny cuz we went, there was- We had one overlap in school together and he let me have, oh, I have another funny story. He let me have my, my space, you know, kind of vibes. But I always loved when I passed him in the hallway. He, I always wondered, is he gonna talk to me because he's a senior and I'm a freshman? And he always, he always said, hello, how you doing? Everything good? And he was, he was kind of had this formality to him that I really loved. I'm, I'm good.

• 10:56Michelle Obama?

  And isn't there, you know, I, I never tell Craig this to my face, but when you have a big brother that you adore, there is a certain energy, you know? Like, I would just get excited knowing he was in the same space.

• 11:10Speaker 01

  Safe.

• 11:10Michelle Obama?

  Even though, safe, yeah. Even though I was trying not to be the little sister because we were raised not to be up under each other. My mother and father wanted to make sure that he didn't feel like he had to protect me.

• 11:22Speaker 01

  Right.

• 11:22Michelle Obama?

  Because he, like your brother, is a worrier. He was the one that took on just naturally a lot of stuff. And so my mom was like, your little sister is fine. Don't worry about her. So I tried to give him his space.

• 11:37Speaker 01

  So he could have a little life too, not, not having to be.

• 11:39Michelle Obama?

  Not to feel like when I'm around, it's like, how's, how's she doing? Is everything okay?

• 11:43Craig Robinson?

  But I did it anyway, you know? It's just, just who, who I was and she was just so cute and I didn't want anything to happen to her.

• 11:51Speaker 01

  But you know, I found like that's really interesting too, because the birth order is beautifully, um, if we believe in God's majesty and, and the dynamic nature of our lives, your being born the big brother is a part of the dynamic that is needed. Taking that on that when you came into the world, you were loved not by just two people, but by three people. You know what I'm saying? And, and a very, and I think that's a beautiful way to think about siblings. You, that, this is part of your role. And it's funny with our two boys, you know, I often also let Nasir know Yaseen is our oldest and Nasir is our youngest. And Nasir is a.

• 12:36Speaker 01

  They're both, you're a great little brother and you're a great big brother. In your dynamic, I always, and so I just feel like that's also unique in that part of that responsibility. You know, but to your point, not to overdo it, but that's, you said, that's just who you are. The sibling relationship is one of the most special relationships. And I tell them that, you know, we're gonna be out of here. And you guys are gonna, you guys are gonna be left in it together. So how are you going to move together? How are you gonna support each other? These are the times in which those, those bonds need to, you know, to anchor in.

• 13:20Speaker 01

  And here's the other thing too, when I think about love, what really is love? What is it? And I feel like it's the witnessing of another.

• 13:31Speaker 01

  Through the good, the bad, the mundane, the in-between. And who gets the VIP courtside, all the special VIP bracelets in your life? And that's a, that's a privilege. You know what I'm saying? Think how much we, we wanna be in the party. Well, you wanna be in someone's life like that. Well, a sibling has it from, all of your dreams and memories are packed into each other. And for someone to sort of, and to lose that bond over time is just, it would be unfortunate.

• 14:13Craig Robinson?

  Boy, this has been a terrific trip to Martha's Vineyard.

• 14:17Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, it's been so nice having you and young Aaron with us. We've had such a ball having you here.

• 14:24Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, it's, it's been really nice. And, and look, we topped it off with a party at the end of the visit.

• 14:29Michelle Obama?

  I know, it was a good jam with a DJ. I heard you were doing a little electric slide.

• 14:35Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, the old man electric slide. So just from here, here.

• 14:38Michelle Obama?

  More slide than electric.

• 14:40Craig Robinson?

  More slide than electric, yeah. Yeah, but check this out. You know I'm an Airbnb guy now, right? Well, you remember the photographer who was there?

• 14:49Michelle Obama?

  Uh huh, yeah.

• 14:49Craig Robinson?

  Got him on Airbnb.

• 14:51Michelle Obama?

  No way.

• 14:51Craig Robinson?

  You can.

• 14:52Michelle Obama?

  Wait, wait, what do you mean?

• 14:53Craig Robinson?

  You. Or ordered.

• 14:54Michelle Obama?

  But he was a professional photographer.

• 14:57Craig Robinson?

  A professional photographer. You can order services through Airbnb.

• 15:02Michelle Obama?

  Oh, as part of this new Airbnb extra amenities. What do they call the program?

• 15:08Craig Robinson?

  Airbnb services.

• 15:09Michelle Obama?

  Airbnb services.

• 15:10Craig Robinson?

  And you can order a chef. You can order all kinds of stuff. I was like, let's order a photographer so we don't have to worry about taking pictures. He'll, he took all the pictures and will send them to us on a.

• 15:22Michelle Obama?

  You know, now that's a great idea because if, I am so horrible at even thinking about taking pictures and while you've got a great phone and everybody's good at that, it's so nice to have somebody that follows you around like we did in the White House. We had a White House photographer.

• 15:38Craig Robinson?

  Right, right.

• 15:38Michelle Obama?

  So it's sort of like Airbnb services lets you have your own White House photographer that can follow you around and just get all these great candid shots. That is so cool.

• 15:48Craig Robinson?

  And it was very similar to being at a wedding where you don't even know he's there, but you're going to have this whole album of pictures.

• 15:56Michelle Obama?

  That's so great. This generation would love that. That is a phenomenal amenity. I can't wait to see the pictures.

• 16:04Craig Robinson?

  I'm just a little worried he might have caught me doing the non-electric slide, so.

• 16:10Michelle Obama?

  Well, if he's any good, he definitely caught that.

• 16:13Craig Robinson?

  So we want our listeners to definitely check out Airbnb services on the Airbnb app or website. You'll love it.

• 16:27Michelle Obama?

  It sounds like you and your brother, like Craig and I, we weren't competing with each other. That, I know that I was his biggest cheerleader, still am. And I know I try to make, I've tried in my parenting of Malia and Sasha to make sure that they never felt like they were competing with each other. I think you've done a great job because I've been able to witness your children outside in the world and they feel like friends. They, they, they have become friends. Individuals, not even locked, it's, we're sisters, holding hands, moving down.

• 17:04Speaker 01

  But they're, they feel like friends respecting each other.

• 17:09Michelle Obama?

  Well, and if you talk about the lives that they've lived in such a short time, you know, they are the only two people who really relate to the unique blend of crazy that was their life growing up together. And I think that that's helped. But I've also tried to make sure that they appreciate their individuality.

• 17:32Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 17:32Michelle Obama?

  And that we see it.

• 17:34Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 17:34Michelle Obama?

  Like, it's not like be like your big sister, or look at your little sister. Like, I made it a point not to talk about grades at the dinner table, just because, you know, it's like, let's talk about school.

• 17:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:47Michelle Obama?

  But when we talk about grades or scores, you know, I was always sensitive. What if the, what if the other one's not doing great? And we are rewarding and cheering an A when the other one might be getting a C? And that's, you know, and then you set up, you know,

• 18:04Speaker 01

  Competition.

• 18:05Michelle Obama?

  Some kind of,

• 18:06Speaker 01

  Measure.

• 18:07Michelle Obama?

  Measure unintentionally. I know Craig and I didn't have that, and some of that, I think, is because we were opposite gender. But I feel like that's something that, you know, a lot of parents, you know, they think that, you know, for the big one, be like your big.

• 18:26Speaker 01

  Well, it's interesting you say that, because I remember my brother was really good. And grades, we didn't talk about that, but I knew he was good. So there was this, I think, healthy competition around that. I, you know, I liked when he talked about his A's, I'm like, okay, well, look at mine. I mean, so I remembered that feeling. But that's an interesting intentional idea that you're saying that you didn't bring to the table. I want to mention one that you did, that you offered to us as a nation, and I believe probably maybe the world, is the rose and the thorn.

• 19:00Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 19:01Speaker 01

  We use that a lot. We did use that a lot. And one of the things, how it's morphed for me is I'll ask Nassir now, who's still at the dinner table, Yaseen is in college, he's at NYU, but the, I'll ask, when did you laugh today? And what did you laugh about? And that has gotten a lot of results.

• 19:22Michelle Obama?

  That's a good question.

• 19:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was a good one. And then I kind of get some insight into his friends and what they're laughing about, what they're talking about. I think storytelling is, even if it's like little snippets, those are the things that I find that I like most at the dinner table that I think allows for a relationship to blossom in real time, even amongst, you know, we don't just caught up and just, we just eat together, right? What are we talking about while we're eating together? A lot of debate is happening at the, you know, I think even for young men, for them to be able to express their opinion clearly. I mean, children in general, but for us, but like express themselves, but then also be able to witness your children

• 20:06Speaker 01

  and how they are able to get their, their opinion across and, and be able to sort of watch them before they launch out into the world. Yes, yes.

• 20:14Craig Robinson?

  And I will share with you what our family always did. It was really interesting when we had family gatherings, it was never kids in the other room. Our family always allowed us to be in the room and hear the adult conversations. And when you were ready, you could chime in. Now, it couldn't be any mess and it had to be well fought out and serious or you would be pummeled with ridicule. But in a way that would keep you wanting to come back. And I always thought that helped my ability to navigate communication in the world. Was exactly what you said, I had a safe place to practice. It's like a sport.

• 21:00Craig Robinson?

  I got to practice in the, in this comfort of our own home. And, and then when we both were old enough to sort of give back, you know, give as good as we got. That's when she passed me up.

• 21:17Craig Robinson?

  Because she got really good at arguing and debate.

• 21:21Michelle Obama?

  I think one of the things you point out, Craig, is the practice. And as parents, as parents raising kids, kids of color, I think we underestimate the importance of setting our kids up for practicing their voice and their emotions.

• 21:36Speaker 01

  I think sometimes I have doubled down. I'm like, okay, well, how'd that make you feel? Mom.

• 21:40Michelle Obama?

  It's like, I don't feel anything right now. I feel annoyed.

• 21:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, I feel annoyed. Great.

• 21:46Craig Robinson?

  Boys are different from girls. They'll tell you how they feel when they're 30. They will.

• 21:50Speaker 01

  They will.

• 21:50Craig Robinson?

  Eventually.

• 21:51Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, but there's still the practice of, I think you tap into that sooner because you, you were also encouraged just to talk.

• 21:59Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, I'm being a little facetious there. I'm making the point that, that, girls just are more advanced. We have one girl and three boys, so she's ahead of all, she was ahead of all of them emotionally when she was eight.

• 22:16Speaker 01

  See, I, okay, I want to get into this. I actually think there's a lot of emotional intelligence in boys.

• 22:22Craig Robinson?

  Yes, there is.

• 22:23Speaker 01

  But they hold it in their bodies.

• 22:25Craig Robinson?

  Right.

• 22:26Speaker 01

  I'm just sort of witnessing it.

• 22:31Speaker 01

  And when they're ready, actually.

• 22:33Michelle Obama?

  When you say you're witnessing it, what are you seeing?

• 22:36Speaker 01

  Boys hold a lot in, and I know, I think that's a societal idea as well, put upon boys that I don't think that we allow for places for them to emote, but I think it is expressed in their, in their physical movement. And so in that, I find the days that sort of my sons have exerted themselves in the things that they want to do. The car ride or the tuck in at bed is where there's a lot of conversation.

• 23:08Craig Robinson?

  The best discussions I've had with my, the three boys have been rearview mirror discussions. When they're in the backseat.

• 23:16Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 23:17Craig Robinson?

  And I can look to just see what they're doing, but I'm not looking directly at them. And it made me think about forever. Because we watched forever with our two younger boys, like our oldest son is 33, so.

• 23:31Speaker 01

  Okay. He's got his own Netflix account.

• 23:35Craig Robinson?

  Finally, he has his own Netflix account. I don't think our daughter does, she's 29, but he's got his own. But we watched it.

• 23:43Speaker 01

  We need those numbers.

• 23:44Craig Robinson?

  And now that, when I knew you were coming on, because when I'm watching this whole thing and I didn't know your background then, now when we were doing the research for this, you had two sons, I wanted to know, how did they influence that whole storytelling? And I, and, and I'm asking for myself, but I'm asking for my, my kids because after you talk, I'll share with you their reaction.

• 24:06Speaker 01

  I really want to know. Well.

• 24:10Speaker 01

  A lot of my storytelling ethos is I tell the truth through fiction.

• 24:19Craig Robinson?

  Okay.

• 24:19Speaker 01

  And so a lot of times, my heart locks in on something, or I'm locked in on something. In real time, as a mother, I'm locked in on my boys. At a time where I was concerned about just their rite of passage, their coming of age. What are they gonna get, miss, and you're trying to fill in the gaps, right? I had a place to pour all these feelings I was having about my parenting, about my sons, what I'm witnessing into this coming of age story about firsts, which is one of the biggest things I was concerned about. Yes, they're getting a great education in the private white institutions, but at what cost? And the social things were really starting to creep up.

• 25:02Speaker 01

  And I was concerned that he was not my eldest son, who is pioneering the family in a lot of ways. I didn't feel as though he was getting some of the social experiences I think children need while they're in the home, while they're in this stage of life.

• 25:20Michelle Obama?

  What was he missing and why?

• 25:22Speaker 01

  You know, I think he deserved to be felt crushed on.

• 25:29Speaker 01

  And mutually felt. I felt like there was his, a lot of his classmates who, you know, you do the catch-ups with the moms, right? Oh, they're on their third girlfriend. I'm like, oh, wow, I haven't had that experience.

• 25:44Michelle Obama?

  Well, there are a lot of young black people that they get into college and they've never had.

• 25:50Speaker 01

  They've never, I don't think that's healthy.

• 25:51Michelle Obama?

  A boyfriend or girlfriend.

• 25:52Speaker 01

  I don't think that's healthy.

• 25:53Michelle Obama?

  I totally agree with you.

• 25:54Speaker 01

  I don't think.

• 25:54Michelle Obama?

  And a lot of that comes from being in all-white environments as a black kid.

• 26:00Speaker 01

  Not to be felt like someone who likes you, even if it's for a week.

• 26:03Michelle Obama?

  Yes.

• 26:04Speaker 01

  There's no memory of a mutual desire and how to negotiate those feelings, those conversations, those opportunities maybe to come to mom or dad for advice, or aunt and uncle, or village. There's no place for them to even practice those.

• 26:22Michelle Obama?

  See, I always thought that black boys had it easier. This is my ignorance, because I grew up with daughters.

• 26:28Speaker 01

  You know, I'm not in every household, but when I look at it from, I think there's a time in which black boys, they're really cute from kindergarten to 4th grade. And actually, Dr. Jawaz Akjufu has a book about the conspiracy to destroy black boys. And it's typically, society starts to pull away from them. They're, imagine, being so cute. Yeah. And then suddenly so threatening. Yeah. So then you start to see the, they, and we're trying to give them language around this, and you're watching this. So there can be a separation where now you are a threat.

• 27:11Speaker 01

  And as your body gets bigger, your physical self gets bigger.

• 27:17Speaker 01

  It, all the things that we're still trying to work on in our country, all that race, whether it's conscious or unconscious, it is starting to form about who's gonna kiss, those ideas. If you're crushing on someone, another step is a kiss. And we understand those ideas that are still embedded in our, in our country. And I don't think, and again, I'm not saying that people are leading with this, but I am saying that he's, he's a, he's handsome, he's dynamic. I've seen pictures of your sons. They are gorgeous. Yeah, it's like, where, where are the flood, where are the flood?

• 27:58Speaker 01

  And again, you, when you sort of do the math, is it, is it because he's the only black boy in the class? And then as a parent, I'll be honest, you know, my guilt sort of comes up about it. Selena and I talk about it all the time, and we, we check in and all the time. So what, so, and, just going back to the vineyard. Hey, we got, we need to get to the vineyard just so he can see. Maybe, maybe one little flirtation on Circuit Avenue might help us get through the rest of the year. [laughing]

• 28:32Michelle Obama?

  Just hold on to that.

• 28:33Speaker 01

  Just hold on, babe. Just hold on, hold on. We're gonna get two weeks, three weeks out of this.

• 28:36Michelle Obama?

  But Mari, you make a good point about,

• 28:40Michelle Obama?

  you know, and Craig, I'd love to hear how you think about this as being one of those cute little boys that grew into maybe a threatening young man.

• 28:49Speaker 01

  Overnight.

• 28:50Michelle Obama?

  Overnight. When we know that overnight, they don't change internally.

• 28:54Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, they're wobbly.

• 28:56Michelle Obama?

  They become, I call them baby giraffes.

• 28:58Speaker 01

  They really, oh, my God. That's a great term.

• 29:00Michelle Obama?

  You know.

• 29:01Speaker 01

  And they're up and down.

• 29:02Michelle Obama?

  And I call them baby on a stick, you know? Because it's like the same little baby face on top of this big, huge man body.

• 29:08Speaker 01

  Six feet plus.

• 29:09Michelle Obama?

  And just the body grew, but they're still the same cute little boy in themselves, but they're walking out.

• 29:15Speaker 01

  And then I'm gonna add before it. They add the mask of what they think black masculinity is. So even like when you're trying to take a picture, everybody's happy and then everybody mean mugging in the shot, you're like, guys, guys, guys.

• 29:27Michelle Obama?

  It's like, why can't we smile?

• 29:29Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 29:29Michelle Obama?

  What is this?

• 29:30Speaker 01

  And making room for that because they're trying to protect themselves. And again, trying to protect, I think, what we keep overlooking and missing and not built to hold for them.

• 29:50Craig Robinson?

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• 30:32Craig Robinson?

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• 31:13Craig Robinson?

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• 31:55Craig Robinson?

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• 32:40Craig Robinson?

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• 33:23Craig Robinson?

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• 34:09Craig Robinson?

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• 34:36Craig Robinson?

  Well, I will say for me, you're growing up. If you, I know you remember this, but you wouldn't know this. I went to an all-boys high school.

• 34:46Speaker 01

  Oh, how was that?

• 34:47Craig Robinson?

  And it was, uh, talk about storytelling. I could tell a bunch of stories about that, but it, it took the pressure off of having to perform every day in order to attract girls. That's what, in looking back, at the time, I didn't realize this.

• 35:09Speaker 01

  Right.

• 35:09Craig Robinson?

  At the time, I was like, geez, this is a lot of dudes around here. And it was a Catholic school, so it was very rigid, so. Any social reaction, any, any social interactions were, were intentionally put upon us with dances with the girls school. Right, right, right, right. So inevitably, there was enough people there where you could actually go ask somebody to dance. If you wanted to ask a black girl to dance, you could. If you wanted to ask a white girl to dance. There were, it, it was like the proportions were about the same.

• 35:45Craig Robinson?

  And so I didn't feel like I was missing out on anything. But did you feel like a threat as you grew? Could you feel society change its reaction to you? I did not feel that. And I don't know when I started to, I, I, I didn't really feel like I was a threat until I was, had gone away to college and then come back. Because I was a little bit more able to perceive slights toward me where I don't think I could in high school. You were just oblivious, you think? I was, I was either oblivious or I didn't run into it because I was an athlete. To, to, to your point about.

• 36:29Craig Robinson?

  Well, yeah, there is a, there is a privilege that comes with athletes. An athlete and not even a good athlete. All you have to be is on the team and people treated you differently. And, and my, my Catholic school was mostly white. So there were, and, and there were, there was the odd slight, you know, the, the one teacher who thought, okay, you shouldn't apply to Princeton because you won't get in. Right. That kind of thing. But we were used to that. Seems like there's a lot of those in the counseling department.

• 37:02Craig Robinson?

  We were used to that. But when I, when I really think back on, on feeling like I.

• 37:10Craig Robinson?

  I didn't feel like I was a threat until I started driving around. The first time I felt like I was a threat when I got pulled over just for driving a car. Yeah, driving while black and but I was prepared for that, right? I was prepared for it. Doesn't make it right, but I was prepared for it. But I so and now when I think about my sons and I think about you, I'm listening to you talk to your sons and we're watching forever and you know, this was when they were 14 and 12. Now they're 15 and 13, so they were they were young and thanks to Malia, because we were no R rated stuff until you get to 16.

• 37:51Speaker 01

  You need a big cousin.

• 37:52Craig Robinson?

  You need a cousin to put the pressure.

• 37:54Speaker 01

  She ripped that.

• 37:55Craig Robinson?

  She ripped that Band-Aid off and Kelly and I were like, ooh. So we we watched it and there were some, as you know, there were some scenes and we were like, we're shaking more than the boys were and.

• 38:07Speaker 01

  But it forces communication, absolutely.

• 38:10Craig Robinson?

  Good discussion about these things.

• 38:12Speaker 01

  Yes, and we should. And I think that's what I would hope that Forever can do. So when I hear about families watching it together, I feel like it's just that opportunity, not only to talk about sexual health, but talk about their emotional health in to themselves, to their friend group and to their their significant other and to their household. And and ultimately to their future, because that's what we're really trying to protect is that, yes, you should go through this rite of passage, but how do you get it? How do you get through it in a healthy way of sound mind and body?

• 38:50Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 38:50Speaker 01

  That's the goal, right?

• 38:52Craig Robinson?

  That's what it did for us.

• 38:53Speaker 01

  And it's gonna and it is uncomfortable to think about this for any child, but it's gonna happen eventually. And I think the privilege and the joy is it to happen while they're under our roof. That we can witness them.

• 39:09Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, so agree.

• 39:10Speaker 01

  And and not that we want our children to fall, but if but if they're gonna fall, let them fall and come home and let them fall right there. They can see themselves.

• 39:21Michelle Obama?

  Well, then, Mar, this is what you're saying about black kids. You want them to have enough social experience. And I'm talking to my brother, too, you know, because there's a balance of you worry about them being out and being in the wrong house. And the parents aren't this and they aren't that. You know, but that's coming, you know, they're gonna.

• 39:40Speaker 01

  With or without.

• 39:41Michelle Obama?

  In high school, sophomore, two, three years, it's going to happen.

• 39:46Craig Robinson?

  When we're having our discussions during and after the show, I asked the boys, so what is the thing that comes to your mind when you're watching this?

• 39:58Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 39:59Craig Robinson?

  And you know what they said?

• 40:03Craig Robinson?

  We compare your parenting to their parenting.

• 40:08Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 40:09Craig Robinson?

  Isn't that something?

• 40:09Speaker 01

  So who are you?

• 40:11Craig Robinson?

  Well, of course, I'm the dad.

• 40:15Craig Robinson?

  But I'm not as cool as. I'm not, I'm not that cool. But they were, they were really focused in on comparing the show's parenting style to our parenting style.

• 40:33Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 40:33Craig Robinson?

  And in the middle, we'd be watching it and it's like.

• 40:36Michelle Obama?

  Well, because the truth is.

• 40:38Craig Robinson?

  They'd be like, mom would never do that. Or, oh, that's exactly what mom would do.

• 40:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:43Craig Robinson?

  Or dad, you'd never, you'd never let us do this. Or, you know.

• 40:47Michelle Obama?

  But that's why I love the show because it checks, it helps to check parents. Because we are so afraid.

• 40:55Speaker 01

  We are so afraid.

• 40:57Michelle Obama?

  So many parents, out of deep love. It's not, it's, it's deep love. You don't want, you don't want your baby. I mean, the thought, that's why we're as happy as our least happy child. That's saying every parent knows it, every parent feels it. You know, but sometimes we don't realize that we parent out of our fears.

• 41:16Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 41:17Michelle Obama?

  We parent out of our desire not to feel the hurt. And we couch it in terms of I'm doing it for them.

• 41:25Craig Robinson?

  Yes. It, I mean, there was a whole lot of stuff going on in the Robinson household. So it was really cathartic for our family.

• 41:35Speaker 01

  That's what I'm hearing, that there's a big sigh.

• 41:40Speaker 01

  A big, deep breath, another regroup. Okay, everybody, let's, let's figure this out on all sides.

• 41:47Michelle Obama?

  And they also need to see our flaws. It is so, it is so helpful for them. I mean, I think one of the biggest reliefs was when, about it, yeah, I thought my parents were perfect. Because, you know, and not perfect in some ridiculous way, I just, you know, I couldn't see their flaws. But you, there comes a point, you know, and I was in college and I'd gone off and studied sociology and psychology. And then I could bring all those theories back and, you know, pick apart my parents.

• 42:19Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 42:20Michelle Obama?

  Right? But that, that was sort of a necessary thing to realize, oh, my, my father's relationship to his MS is not healthy. You know, the notion that he, we, we would applaud the fact that our father just caught up and he went to work and he never sacrificed for anybody and he never took a day off. This is a man who had MS.

• 42:42Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 42:43Michelle Obama?

  And as I got older, I was like, why aren't, why aren't we looking at therapies?

• 42:48Speaker 01

  Right.

• 42:49Michelle Obama?

  Why isn't he going to the doctor more? Why are we bragging about the fact that he?

• 42:54Speaker 01

  Never stops.

• 42:55Michelle Obama?

  Never stops. When MS is a disease that is so debilitating that there's sometimes he needs to stop. What is it about him? What is it about my mother? You know, where we've created this heroic, you know, paradigm that is not healthy at all.

• 43:15Speaker 01

  That's the beauty of progress, right? Sometimes it takes, you don't like, sometimes how long it can take because of the different, you know, constraints on us. But I think, you know, as a storyteller, sometimes I have to keep going back to the origin of things. And you realize, oh, that's why he didn't stop. He didn't stop because. Stopping meant something different to us a few generations ago. You two may not be here if other generations didn't stop.

• 43:45Michelle Obama?

  There's no food on the table.

• 43:46Speaker 01

  There's no. But at some point, to your point, where are we at the tipping point? Where it's going to kill us in other ways if we don't think about how we

• 43:58Speaker 01

  take care of ourselves and as we fight continuously for our humanity. And it comes with sometimes the ability to rest and reflect, to look at the patterns, to look at, to examine. I'm going to apply these, this knowledge I have at some of the best institutions we have in our country, and I'm gonna take it back to my family. That's what I would love that we can do. You know, and that, and that excites me in a lot of ways, even though there's a lot of work still to be done.

• 44:29Michelle Obama?

  Oh, for sure.

• 44:37Craig Robinson?

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• 45:22Craig Robinson?

  so you can actually see how something looks and works in real people's homes. Find pieces made for real life and get even more value with Wayfair Rewards. Join Wayfair Rewards today to get 5% back on every purchase. Head to wayfair.com to shop all things home. That's W A Y F A I R dot com.

• 45:47Craig Robinson?

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• 46:21Craig Robinson?

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• 47:10Michelle Obama?

  I really want you to talk a bit about your staying power in this industry. You know, you were one of the youngest showrunners, black showrunners.

• 47:24Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 47:24Michelle Obama?

  I mean, you have put out hit after hit after hit. And in a business where it doesn't happen, you got a season two on Netflix.

• 47:33Speaker 01

  My love for it. I, um, accepting that I, accepting my purpose in my life, I think, is my staying power. And actually, as much as I want to make hit after hit after hit, I really enjoy making. I love the stories of us. I just see so many, so many opportunities that were missing at the time that I came in the industry. It felt like, guys, there's so many stories. I did have to develop, how do I sell those? Which can be very challenging at times.

• 48:07Michelle Obama?

  Can you talk more about that?

• 48:08Speaker 01

  Well, it's interesting, honestly.

• 48:13Speaker 01

  It's akin to how Black people have succeeded in America throughout. Is that oftentimes, America will ask of us to come in when things are in chaos or in turmoil.

• 48:28Michelle Obama?

  Oh, I feel that.

• 48:32Speaker 01

  You know, a little something about that?

• 48:36Speaker 01

  Think about that. Think about that moment when we don't know what to do. Then now, maybe.

• 48:42Michelle Obama?

  Here you go.

• 48:42Speaker 01

  There could be a first Black president. So when girlfriends came about, UPN, the network, was in trouble. Nobody would touch that network. And I took all the legacy, I treated it as of value, and found other people who also saw this opportunity as valuable and led from that place. So typically, if you go back in the pattern of my career, I have made leaps when the industry was changing in a way that felt like, you know, a little bit of the sky is falling kind of vibes. So that was one way.

• 49:27Speaker 01

  And the third part that's very important to me is job creation. I know that if I'm able to take this idea that's floating out here in my heart, and I can land it on the page, and it becomes a lighthouse for other talent to come and join me, I also know that is feeding families. And that, my staying power is not just about my own need to tell stories, right?

• 49:56Michelle Obama?

  Well, and you're doing this in real time, not just from your programs, but you are mentoring the next generation of creatives. Can you talk a bit about that?

• 50:07Speaker 01

  Oh, thank you. It's a, you know.

• 50:11Speaker 01

  I have produced over 400 episodes of television. And with that, it has inspired a lot of young people who typically are the, their families are saying, please go to be a doctor, go be a banker, go be a lawyer.

• 50:31Michelle Obama?

  Again, because it feels safe for us as parents.

• 50:33Speaker 01

  Because it feels safe as parents. But we have inspired them to want to be storytellers, which I personally believe is the most valuable asset we as humans have is our story. The challenge is that the industry changing and it looked like a gold rush yesterday. It doesn't feel like that today, but there's a long line of people who want to tell, who are now inspired to tell their story. And I can't pretend I don't see it. And so the way I thought is that I would have a writer's colony. And I built a res, it's been four years. It's, it's a place to write. It's a place to belong and a place to find your voice. What we don't need, we don't need another Mara.

• 51:17Speaker 01

  We need what it, there's something in you that you and God want to get out as a, as sort of like a co-creation idea. You need to get that out, but where are you going to get your foothold? And even signal to family who's helping to typically all artists, they're supported by someone and typically it's the family. So the first venture capitalists are family, you know, family and friends, a family and friends round, right?

• 51:43Michelle Obama?

  That's right.

• 51:44Speaker 01

  And so the signal to even the writer themselves and the family that's supporting them, what it, what could be created so that it feels like they can actually get into this institute, into this industry and thrive. And the reason why you do need a community of peers, mama and daddy and auntie and grandma and uncle, they're going to love your script, but you need.

• 52:10Michelle Obama?

  I know, right?

• 52:11Craig Robinson?

  You need objectivity.

• 52:13Michelle Obama?

  Oh, baby.

• 52:15Speaker 01

  I mean, first of all, people are just blown away that you can write 100 pages of anything. And I think the communication around the expectations from family, if you just sort of meet it with real conversations, hey, this is what I'm doing. This is what I understand the industry is. This is my strategy. Literally, I would mass my life so that I protected the ability for me to write.

• 52:38Michelle Obama?

  Well, this might be a good time to.

• 52:41Craig Robinson?

  Whoa, look who's.

• 52:42Michelle Obama?

  I'm sorry.

• 52:43Craig Robinson?

  No, go ahead. No, no, do that. No, go ahead.

• 52:45Michelle Obama?

  For our listener question.

• 52:46Craig Robinson?

  Yes, it's perfect.

• 52:47Michelle Obama?

  It kind of ties into a lot of what we're talking about.

• 52:50Craig Robinson?

  And it's our, it's IMO's attempt to be sort of communal, you know? So we get a question from our listeners.

• 52:58Michelle Obama?

  Okay.

• 52:58Craig Robinson?

  And this question is from Julia, who happens to be from Los Angeles.

• 53:03Michelle Obama?

  Okay.

• 53:04Speaker 03

  Hi, Michelle and Craig. My name is Julia. I'm the daughter of immigrants, went to Princeton on scholarship where I felt like an outsider, and then took a job in finance, which I hated, before pivoting to teaching, which I still do now. I know both of you went to Princeton and then took jobs in lucrative fields like law and finance, before pivoting to less lucrative but more fulfilling careers. People of color and immigrant kids often feel extraordinary pressure to go to the best schools and get the best, highest-paid jobs because of the sacrifices and suffering of their parents, even if these schools and jobs are not the best fit. My parents, for example, worked at a fast-food restaurant that burned during the L.A. uprising.

• 53:44Speaker 03

  I'm now the parent of teenagers, and I wholeheartedly believe they do not need to go to an Ivy League school or have a highly-paid job in medicine, law, or finance in order to be happy, quote, "successful" human beings. But I also know I have so much more privilege than my parents ever did, and that my kids don't need these fancy degrees and jobs in the way I felt I did. What advice do you have for these kids and also for their parents?

• 54:07Michelle Obama?

  Oh, my goodness. This is the perfect question, and we started talking about this.

• 54:12Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 54:13Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, so I didn't want to get too far into it.

• 54:16Speaker 01

  Too far, because it kind of just led.

• 54:18Michelle Obama?

  Right.

• 54:18Speaker 01

  I would think first is acknowledge that you, the awareness is beautiful.

• 54:26Speaker 01

  She already knows, Julia already knows, that is different. I think, and I think, I know I go to therapy a lot, but she might need to sort of work on that guilt.

• 54:41Speaker 01

  That, meaning.

• 54:46Speaker 01

  They're still embedded in the question, am I doing something? Did I do something right? And by nature of her, the privilege for her to pivot, her parents applaud them. That they got a child to Princeton through that experience into a career and have the presence of mind that this is not for me. That is the progress. That is the victory. That is it. And if theirs can be made peace, I don't know if the diet, what that not knowing the full dynamic. But I hear a little bit, and maybe I, of guilt, perhaps.

• 55:31Speaker 01

  And by letting that go, will free up parents who have journeyed through something themselves to then not bring that guilt into the parenting of the next generation. So the awareness is a beautiful step. And maybe that next step would be there. But it sounds like Julia's doing a great job of awareness and knowing that she needs to parent different. I think communication, which is hard sometimes, and it's interesting, we talked about that from the beginning, that what we as parents are pouring into our kids to allow them, I think you were talking about even at the when you were, what can you offer back to the community when you were ready to, your debate skills

• 56:14Speaker 01

  and your communication skills. Kids being back at that dinner table, having the support to add new ideas to the family, to grow the family. Our children have a lot of good ideas. And likely in Julia, Princeton, her, even though she felt like an outsider, she probably was a good witness to a lot of good information that she could bring back to her family, to herself, and thus to her family, her growing family. But the kids do have things to offer. And I think we need to make room for them. They know themselves, especially when they are raised.

• 56:57Speaker 01

  I think that's whatever the dynamic of the family, and they can help lead that new conversation. I'll tell you one. When I first was, you know, in Northwestern, I'm at, I'm in LA making the little bit of money that I was making.

• 57:15Speaker 01

  But my grandmother kept sending me articles about teaching in LAUSD. Because we had LA, my family had LAUSD on lock. That's the Los Angeles United School District.

• 57:29Speaker 01

  And at first, it broke my heart. And I'm like, do they understand what I'm trying to do? What I'm trying to do? I'm out here trying to do the thing. And then I thought, no, they don't. And not only do they not understand it, Mara, you haven't fully let them know, while you're still trying to figure it out. But this has hit me like a ton of bricks. They can't help you. There's no phone call they can make to say, look out for my baby.

• 57:51Michelle Obama?

  Right. You're going down a path that...

• 57:53Speaker 01

  Can they get an interview? Can they just, can somebody read the script?

• 57:57Michelle Obama?

  Yes.

• 57:57Speaker 01

  There's nobody to call.

• 58:00Michelle Obama?

  The baby's out in the desert.

• 58:01Speaker 01

  Yes, there's no community we can put around, no extra eyes on them. And then for me, what's my accountability as a child? To help relieve some of that burden because, and then the check in, this is what I'm doing. This is what I'm at. Or, or even, I gave myself two years. At the end of those two years, I sat down with Gina Prince-Pithwood. Shout out to my friend, you know, Woman King, you know, Old Guard, all those things. But we were, we were, this is after South Central. There was an unemployment phase before Moesha in my, in my gap. And I said, I, I, and so I tasted it, right?

• 58:46Speaker 01

  I tasted it and I didn't feel like I was going to be able to keep going. And I thought, well, teach for America. I can maybe go to, I wasn't going to teach. I was like, you know what? If I'm going to teach, I'm going to teach out in another country. At least I'll get some travel out of this. And she said, stay, stay an extra month. I later found out she only said that because she didn't know what else to say. And that's when Ralph Farquhar called me and said, hey Mara, I got this show called Moesha.

• 59:11Speaker 01

  And so you, the timing of life too, and the community. I was also able in that communication. Ralph only knew that because I had gone to his office when I had $50 in my pocket. And I was trying to be his assistant, just to stay in. And he looked, he goes, "Ma, you're not an assistant, you're a writer." Great compliment, does not help my math problem.

• 59:34Michelle Obama?

  I gotta eat.

• 59:36Speaker 01

  I gotta eat. So I feel communicating also what your needs are in your community. Being vulnerable enough to say, "I have $50 in my pocket." "I don't know what else to do."

• 59:50Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 59:50Speaker 01

  And somebody else offering something, whether it's not just encouragement, or a meal, or something to keep us going. That matters who's around us.

• 1:00:02Craig Robinson?

  That's so, that's so perfect. And I'm just gonna try and sum it all up. But you got another point?

• 1:00:08Michelle Obama?

  I do have one other, one other thing that I wanna say is, just like you learned with your son, that the next generation has a vision and a voice. I think it's incumbent upon our generation of parents to realize that we, we don't know their future.

• 1:00:25Speaker 01

  We don't.

• 1:00:27Michelle Obama?

  So we can't always have a strong opinion because the world will be very different for them.

• 1:00:33Craig Robinson?

  Right.

• 1:00:34Michelle Obama?

  For our kids today, especially for your kids who are younger.

• 1:00:37Craig Robinson?

  Yep.

• 1:00:38Michelle Obama?

  And they're living in it. Yes, they're the ones living through it. They're the ones who are out there in school, surveying the land, understanding whatever industries they're in. And we're bystanders.

• 1:00:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:51Michelle Obama?

  So there's gotta be some, I wanna reemphasize, the trust.

• 1:00:55Craig Robinson?

  Yes.

• 1:00:56Michelle Obama?

  In the fact that you, you, you give your kids tools.

• 1:01:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:00Michelle Obama?

  You give them the best education that you can afford, which is not always a guarantee to anything. But like you say, you give them love. You give them, you know, you know, unwavering support, you know? Not without criticism. And then at some point, you got to let them.

• 1:01:23Michelle Obama?

  Try out this new thing.

• 1:01:24Craig Robinson?

  This process.

• 1:01:25Speaker 01

  And I think in parenting too, sometimes if we get out of our own way, we can see them. And in seeing them, we can help them while they're in our daily care.

• 1:01:35Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:36Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, I, I, I'm not gonna add anything other than sort of

• 1:01:41Michelle Obama?

  Okay.

• 1:01:41Craig Robinson?

  summing it up because I love your math problem example. But I think when we're, what we don't do is we don't, we have our own math equation and we impose it on our kids rather than teaching them how to create their own math problem.

• 1:02:02Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:02:03Craig Robinson?

  So when we look at our kids, we see this gigantic algebra problem.

• 1:02:08Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:02:09Craig Robinson?

  And they've got a arithmetic problem. And that's all they need to survive is make their arithmetic work. We're looking at it as if they're in our orbit. So I would say to Julia, take into consideration this math problem. And your math problem isn't their math problem.

• 1:02:28Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:02:28Craig Robinson?

  Let them figure out what their math problem is. And then to your point, you, both of you all's points, help them with their math problem.

• 1:02:34Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:02:34Craig Robinson?

  And then the other thing that was big there for Julia is don't impose your fears on your kids. And we all do that.

• 1:02:44Michelle Obama?

  Yes.

• 1:02:44Speaker 01

  Oh, my gosh. That's why you need the good girlfriends and they get it out and they get it out in your community. Don't take it off.

• 1:02:50Craig Robinson?

  Have it in the chair of anger, the girlfriend thing, you just have it. Talk about it and then keep your mouth shut and let, and, and wait for the kids to need help, then help them.

• 1:03:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:00Craig Robinson?

  Don't try and help them before, so.

• 1:03:03Michelle Obama?

  Well, I think.

• 1:03:04Craig Robinson?

  It's a lot.

• 1:03:04Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:05Speaker 01

  It's a lot.

• 1:03:06Michelle Obama?

  But, uh, you know, the, the work that you do, Mara, you know, just to bring these stories to light and with, with, with humor.

• 1:03:17Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:03:17Michelle Obama?

  With truth. It, it really helps get the conversation going in so many ways. And that's why Forever is such a success, along with everything else you're doing.

• 1:03:28Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:03:29Michelle Obama?

  I just wanna know, uh, what, what's, uh, what's going on with girlfriends?

• 1:03:35Speaker 01

  I do, you're gonna ask, love it that you asked you.

• 1:03:38Craig Robinson?

  You know, you know.

• 1:03:39Speaker 01

  I want to say, are we gonna get through this without asking about girlfriends? I love this.

• 1:03:44Craig Robinson?

  I wanted to be William. I wanted to be William.

• 1:03:47Speaker 01

  Oh, my gosh.

• 1:03:48Michelle Obama?

  Well, you sort of are. You're kind of the good guy.

• 1:03:51Speaker 01

  That's my brother's name. I named him after my brother.

• 1:03:54Craig Robinson?

  That was my dude back in the day, and I was like, man, he's.

• 1:03:57Speaker 01

  You know why I put him there? Because back in the day, we were talking about, we need to find a good black man. And then some of my criticism of us, myself included, we were overlooking a lot of good brothers. And William spoke up for, he was like, we, I'm him.

• 1:04:12Michelle Obama?

  I'm sitting around all y'all complaining. Here I am.

• 1:04:15Speaker 01

  I'm standing right here. I'm right here, and you looking over because you think you gotta have a little edge, little bad boy, a little this, little that. Okay, I, okay, so, okay, great. But girlfriends, thank you for bringing, you know, you know, this is our 25th anniversary.

• 1:04:28Michelle Obama?

  We know.

• 1:04:29Speaker 01

  25th anniversary. It is not, I keep my heart open, actually Tracy, Persia, Jill, Golden, and Reggie. We've all, we desire to do it. But I, as, but what is important to me is that we be able to tell the story with the proper resources. There's a, there's a way we tell stories in our business. And it is time that we don't have to scratch and survive to tell this story. We have given 172 episodes, eight years, eight seasons of a lot of love and value. This story is four generations deep now. The 16-year-old thinks I'm a rock star. I'm like, oh, my God, I love it.

• 1:05:13Speaker 01

  But it's been global. So this is a ripe, valuable story. And so my conversation with God is, I'm here, I'm ready to go. But it needs to be lined up with the right financial resources and support that it's going to treat it as a global success.

• 1:05:35Michelle Obama?

  And we're talking about girlfriends, the movie.

• 1:05:38Speaker 01

  The movie. I only want to do a movie. To be honest with you, I think that, you know.

• 1:05:44Speaker 01

  I have a fresh pen for the girlfriends. Like, I think why Girlfriends was so successful. I was living that life. I was 29, as Joan was 29.

• 1:05:56Speaker 01

  And those, and those, I was, I was in the issues of the day. I think that's kind of why my journalism aspect, my truth through fiction, because I was living it, or at least in proximity with my friends. I was, I was able to understand what we were going to, going through in real time. And I, I, I would love a fresh pen for a new Girlfriends of Tomorrow in a series, but for Girlfriends, the movie. I feel the, the, the, the audience deserves the ending. Those characters deserve.

• 1:06:28Michelle Obama?

  We deserve an ending.

• 1:06:30Speaker 01

  The characters deserve, I agree. I'm with you.

• 1:06:32Michelle Obama?

  And I'm with you.

• 1:06:33Speaker 01

  I'm with you, so I, I, yeah, so I'm, yeah, so.

• 1:06:37Craig Robinson?

  So make the check right.

• 1:06:39Speaker 01

  Somebody got a check.

• 1:06:40Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, make the check. And I love that you say that. Make the check right.

• 1:06:44Speaker 01

  Make the check right.

• 1:06:44Michelle Obama?

  Don't come nickel and diming. This is worthy, it, it has an audience. You have an audience. It is not a favor.

• 1:06:53Speaker 01

  It is real beautiful business. And I think, and I'm excited for the day. I know it's coming, I'm gonna let it show up. Oh my God, I got to cry. Oh my God, sorry.

• 1:07:05Michelle Obama?

  But let it show up.

• 1:07:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I'm now curious.

• 1:07:10Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:11Speaker 01

  How it's gonna show up. Oh my God, you guys, I have a hot flash.

• 1:07:16Craig Robinson?

  Okay, all right. That's the way to end the episode right now.

• 1:07:20Speaker 01

  Wow, okay, okay, wow. I mean, look, can you see it?

• 1:07:23Craig Robinson?

  Yes, I feel them.

• 1:07:24Speaker 01

  Oh my gosh.

• 1:07:25Michelle Obama?

  That means it's coming, it's coming. And I think there's, there's some prophecy here in this barn.

• 1:07:29Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:07:30Michelle Obama?

  I think maybe we're generating, I'm looking around at my team.

• 1:07:33Speaker 01

  My brother's here, I told you.

• 1:07:35Michelle Obama?

  He's here, he's here.

• 1:07:36Speaker 01

  You, yeah, we just, oh my.

• 1:07:38Michelle Obama?

  He's here, he's like, this is, these are some, some signs, yeah. Well.

• 1:07:43Craig Robinson?

  It's wonderful.

• 1:07:44Michelle Obama?

  We are excited. I personally am excited. This has been amazing.

• 1:07:49Speaker 01

  This is amazing for me.

• 1:07:50Michelle Obama?

  It's been as amazing, if not more amazing than I thought.

• 1:07:53Speaker 01

  I don't know about you.

• 1:07:54Craig Robinson?

  I am just sitting. Now I'm starting to get goosebumps.

• 1:07:59Craig Robinson?

  No, this has been a real treat. Thank you so much for being with us.

• 1:08:03Speaker 01

  Thank you so much for having me.

• 1:08:05Craig Robinson?

  And thank you so much for everything you're doing, because it is uplifting a whole lot of folks. You don't even know it.

• 1:08:11Speaker 01

  Thank you, Mara. Thank you so much. Thank you.

• 1:08:34Craig Robinson?

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