S3 Ep345: Coffee and Community Cracks A Cold Case

In 1992, the remains of a woman were discovered in north Houston, Texas. For 33 years, she was known only as a Jane Doe. Today, through forensic genetic genealogy, she has finally been identified as Joann Zamora, a mother of six. With the help of Moxxy Forensic Investigations, Intermountain Forensics, Break Investigative Group, and supporters of Criminal Coffee Company like you, we were able to discover the identity of a Jane Doe left unknown for over three decades. Now, Joann has her name back, her family has some answers, and investigators can search for what happened to her. If you have any information in the case of Joann Zamora, please contact the Houston Police Department Crime Stoppers at (713) 222-8477. Criminal Coffee Co. is offering $5,000 to anyone with information leading to an arrest of those responsible for her death. Read more about the case here: https://www.forensicmag.com/3594-All-News/621319-Moxxy-IDs-1992-Jane-Doe-Case-is-Ongoing/ Try our coffee!! - www. CriminalCoffeeCo.comBecome a Patreon member -- > ｿ https://www.patreon.com/CrimeWeeklyShop for your Crime Weekly gear here --> ｿ https://crimeweeklypodcast.com/shopYoutube: https://www.youtube.com/c/CrimeWeeklyPodcastWebsite: CrimeWeeklyPodcast.comInstagram: @CrimeWeeklyPodTwitter: @CrimeWeeklyPodFacebook: @CrimeWeeklyPod

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:11Stephanie Harlowe?

  Hello, everybody. Welcome back to Crime Weekly. I'm Stephanie Harlow.

• 0:15Derrick Levasseur?

  And I'm Derrick Levasseur.

• 0:17Stephanie Harlowe?

  And we are here to talk to you today about sort of a crossover. Because, yes, we are Crime Weekly, but for anybody who doesn't know, we're also the owners of Criminal Coffee Co., where we sell great coffee. Personally, we think so. A lot of other people think so as well.

• 0:32Derrick Levasseur?

  A little biased, yeah.

• 0:32Stephanie Harlowe?

  And we also use a portion of the profits from Criminal Coffee to donate to helping solve cold cases. We've done that before, and we are-

• 0:43Derrick Levasseur?

  Albert Frost? Yeah, that was our first one.

• 0:45Stephanie Harlowe?

  We're happily here to announce that we have done it again. For more than three decades, a woman known only as Jane Doe lay buried in an unmarked grave in Houston, Texas. She had no name, no story. Her life and how she got there was a mystery. But thanks to the power of forensic genealogy and the unlikely partnership between a nonprofit, a coffee company, and a grieving daughter, she finally has her name back, and it is Joanne Samora. This all started in September 8th of 1992, when skeletal remains were discovered in a wooded area off West Rittenhouse Road, north of Houston. Investigators believed that the woman, the victim, was white, in her 20s, with brown hair, and she had distinctive dental work.

• 1:28Stephanie Harlowe?

  But despite efforts, she was never identified, and she was buried as unknown in Harris County Cemetery. For decades, she became another statistic, a Jane Doe lost in the system. At the time Joanne disappeared, her daughter Spencer Graham was just two years old. And for years, Spencer lived with a very painful uncertainty. She was told that her mother had just simply run away, basically abandoned her. And obviously, Spencer grew up with questions that she had no answers to, and she carried the weight of an absence that was never explained. But now, we have at least some answers. We know who this person was. We know what happened to Joanne, and she didn't just run away.

• 2:12Stephanie Harlowe?

  She didn't just leave her family. In 2024, Moxie Forensics Investigations, which is a Houston-based nonprofit, launched an investigative genetic genealogy effort to identify her. The project began in earnest on December 5th, 2024, and this effort was aided in part by crowdfunding and also a sponsorship from Criminal Coffee Co. So we provided the critical financial support for the genealogical effort, and we've also offered a $5,000 reward for information leading to the arrest of those responsible. Now, currently, because Joanne has been identified and the police department have said, hey, we're treating her death as a homicide,

• 2:56Stephanie Harlowe?

  they're actively investigating. And we hope that we can help in that effort as we helped in the effort to identify her.

• 3:04Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, absolutely. As you just stated, this case came from Moxie Forensics a little over, I want to say, seven, eight months ago. We were looking for another case. They're difficult to find. They really are.

• 3:16Stephanie Harlowe?

  Surprisingly, they shouldn't be.

• 3:17Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, they really are. It's a weird industry. But this case came across my desk, looked it over. It looked promising as far as potentially identifying her, although, and I'm going to let the team talk about it in a couple of minutes. Depending on the background of the dough, it can be more difficult, and it ended up being the case here. But this is classified as a homicide. Emmy has ruled her death, cause of death, a homicide. And so that's where we are now. We have her identification. We know where she was found, and we just don't know the who. And so that's where we go from here. And that's why it's not only about identifying the victim, it's also about bringing the people to justice that are responsible for this. And that's why we're continuing our effort with your help,

• 4:00Derrick Levasseur?

  all of you guys out there, supporting us and supporting Criminal Coffee, where we're able to offer a reward of $5,000 for an arrest and conviction of someone if they are brought to justice. So it's a big congratulations to you guys. We are a small, independent company. We don't have this big organization behind us. And in this tough economy where a lot of businesses are going out of business. The fact that we're almost three years into this now and we're still going strong. It's a testament to your support for us and what we're doing here. And like Stephanie said at the top of the show, we do think it's a combination of things. The coffee tastes pretty good. We're biased. Yes, it is. But I also think that Crime Weekly and this true crime community that we have

• 4:44Derrick Levasseur?

  and our obsession with not only finding out what happened, but getting answers for those who need them. I think that's what brings us all together. And you guys are now responsible for solving two different cases just by purchasing coffee. And there was really very little law enforcement movement on this one until we all got involved. So nobody's going to sit here and tell me that a podcast or a coffee company or a group of individuals who care can't make a difference because if it wasn't for everybody that we just mentioned, we wouldn't be here right now. So how did we get here? Moxie reaches out, we look at the case, it looks good. I reach back out to them and say, not only are we going to fund the DNA testing,

• 5:30Derrick Levasseur?

  but I'm going to also provide two genetic genealogists. They both are on staff with Break Investigative Group, my firm. Their names are Jeremy and Ryan. You're going to be hearing from them in a little bit. They are absolutely incredible. And so they went over for free and worked with Moxie Forensics. And I'm not going to spoil it for you guys. I'm going to let them talk you through it. But when you hear what these guys do and how they do it, specifically in this case and on a more macro level, I think you're going to be extremely impressed and you want to stick around because I've talked to Jeremy and I talked to Ryan and I want to show you how good they are at what they do. So one of you tonight are going to be able to weigh in down in the comments. If you have someone that you're looking for, you're looking to learn more about yourself,

• 6:12Derrick Levasseur?

  something in your family background where maybe you were adopted or whatever and you can't find your family. We're going to pick someone and we're going to do the genetic genealogy for you for free. That's what we're gonna do tonight, in addition to speaking to them, and we're also going to speak to Spencer. So, without further ado, let's bring Ryan and Jeremy on so they can tell you, talk to you about what they did in this case. Alright, so we're here with my guys, Jeremy Lipford, Ryan Russell. These guys, I've mentioned them numerous times on this channel before, but I believe it's the first time you've ever seen their faces unless you were at CrimeCon the last couple of years. Ryan was there two years ago, Jeremy was there two years ago, and this year. For anybody who doesn't know, I want to talk just from a general perspective.

• 6:56Derrick Levasseur?

  What is genetic genealogy? When you get a case like this, what is the process? Take us through that.

• 7:02Speaker 02

  Sure, thanks Derek. So, you know, a lot of people are taking DNA tests at places like Ancestry or 23andMe. And when you do, when you do that, what comes back to you is a list of like DNA matches. And so you may have close ones, like aunts and uncles or cousins that you spend the holidays with. But then you've also gonna have more distant ones, like, you know, second, third, fourth and beyond cousins. People you've never heard of before, but they're related to you. You share, you share DNA with them. And so what happens when we get a case like this is that we upload the unknown person's DNA to a database called Jedmatch. And what happens is that it populates a list of who that person is related to.

• 7:46Speaker 02

  Just like when you take an ancestry test for your family. And we get a list of this unknown person's family. And if we're lucky, those matches might be close, like first cousins, or they may be really far, like third, fourth cousins or worse. And so that's kind of where the process begins. And then from there, what we do is we start looking for like clusters of matches. And so if you think about your family, how like you probably have cousins on your mom's side and you have cousins on your dad's side. But they probably don't know each other because they're not like really related, you know, at least in most cases. And so the way that it works is when we see the match list, we start looking for who is related to each other.

• 8:28Speaker 02

  So people that are related not just to the person we uploaded, but also to one another as well. And that makes like a little cluster of matches. And then when we find a cluster, what we can do is we start looking at the family trees for those people. Sometimes we're lucky and they give us their family tree. They just upload it to the database. Other times we have to build it for them. We have to kind of do the homework and figure out who their grandparents and everything are. But as we build those family trees back in time, what we start to see is like some common ancestors. We start to realize like, oh, all these people in this cluster, they're all related to Mr. And Mrs. Smith. And what that tells us is that the unknown person is also related to Mr. And Mrs. Smith. They're also descended from them. Then we just have to figure out how.

• 9:10Speaker 02

  And so then what we do is we build down from Mr. And Mrs. Smith, find all their descendants. And basically until we find the person that we're looking for. So that's an overview of how it works.

• 9:21Derrick Levasseur?

  And Jeremy, can you even take us further back? Like that's the, that's once the DNA, the profiles uploaded to Jedmatch. And I know this is in your area of expertise, but when we find a Jane Doe, baby Doe, John Doe. Can you talk about the process specifically as far as the lab process? Cause I, people hear the term sequencing and things like that. I've even asked you some questions before where I'm like, hey, what would that process be like? Can you walk us through that from discovering of a body to the profile being uploaded to Jedmatch?

• 9:49Speaker 03

  Right. So for, you know, this particular Jane Doe, they had to extract DNA from her teeth. So they sent the tooth to the lab. They do whatever they do there to get the DNA extracted. And then they format the data in a way that it can be uploaded to those public genealogy databases like Jedmatch. So it's, if you were to look at the data, if you open up, it's like an Excel spreadsheet with a whole bunch of numbers and letters. And I call it garbly goop. But once, but, but that translates and it uploads, you know, to those databases in a way that we're able to see who they're related to. So there, there is a lot more science involved into it, but generally, you know, with the Jane Does, sometimes they have to exhume the bodies first.

• 10:34Speaker 03

  And I don't know in this particular case if, if they did that or not. I think they just maintained.

• 10:39Derrick Levasseur?

  Might have maintained the tooth and the evidence.

• 10:41Speaker 03

  In the evidence, yeah.

• 10:43Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah. And I mean, shout out to Intermountain Forensics. I don't think we've mentioned them yet. We worked with them on Albert Frost as well. They did the, the DNA, the lab testing here. They developed where they extract the DNA from the tooth. They create this. Terms called sequencing where they can, like Jeremy said, in a more eloquent way, they develops a pattern or a code that can be uploaded to these websites where then someone like Jeremy or Ryan can start the investigative work and start that genetic investigative, whatever detective work you want to call it. Stephanie, any questions for you before we dive into Joanne specifically?

• 11:17Stephanie Harlowe?

  I mean, I don't have a huge understanding of this process like Ryan and Jeremy do, but we did go to Intermountain Forensics a few years ago and they walked us through the process. They showed us some of the equipment they used. It was so interesting. And so now every time I face a case like this that has any genealogy or forensics aspect to it, I always remember that process. How, not only how extensive it is, how thorough it needs to be, how expensive it is. And, and you know, when we were going through the lab, he was like, oh, every time you use this machine, it's this much money. And every time you turn this machine on, it's this much money. And so it's just so very important to have people like Jeremy and Ryan who are donating their time and their services

• 12:02Stephanie Harlowe?

  and their intelligence to solving these cases. And, and really it's great that, you know, people have a very, a huge desire to purchase criminal coffee, not only because it's good, but because they know that a portion of it is going towards helping to fund these things, which are so expensive and, and so widespread. So that's all I have to say. But, um, yes, we want to hear more from Ryan and Jeremy, I think.

• 12:25Derrick Levasseur?

  Ryan, with, with this particular case, we had given an opening before you guys hopped on here and we had talked about the fact that initially when Joanne was discovered in Houston, they thought she could be a white woman in her twenties. And you and Jeremy have talked to me extensively about the hurdles that happen when, come to find out, the Jane Doe, John Doe, baby Doe is not Caucasian. Can you talk to us about that, some of those complications that it's not only about being able to process whatever evidence you have and turn it into a DNA profile that you can use, but then uploading it to like a Jed match, depending on their background, that could make it more difficult as the genetic detectives here to actually find those connections to family members.

• 13:10Speaker 02

  That's right. So it's a lot more difficult on average to solve Hispanic cases. There's a lot of reasons, but probably the biggest one is just these databases are underrepresented by Hispanic people. White people like myself are the most likely to have taken DNA tests and to upload them to databases. And so therefore more likely to have more matches and closer matches. And when you have a lower representation from the Hispanic population in the database, you're just, you're probably not going to get as many matches and as many close matches. And that's the single biggest challenge in a situation like this. And it also comes back to, to, you know, your ancestry, right?

• 13:51Speaker 02

  And where your family's from. And so in Hispanic cases where maybe a person's, you know, grandparents or great grandparents are, have, you know, come here from Latin America, whatever country they've come from may not have genealogical records that are as easy for us to access as the ones in the US. And so therefore it gets a lot harder to build their family tree back in time to find those connections and relatives. We just don't have access to the information that we do for those who have had sort of multiple generations, extensive generations back in the US. And so those are challenges that we kind of run up against. And I actually found some, some research, this is a little bit dated from

• 14:31Speaker 02

  2022, but basically at this point in time, at 2022, there were only like 14 cases that had been solved of Hispanic ancestry through IgG total, which was about 3% of the entire amount of cases that had been solved. Only 3% were Hispanic. And generally that was because, you know, they got lucky and those people had pretty good matches to work with. You know, second cousins are closer. And usually that's kind of what it takes. And so in this particular case, we had, I wouldn't say amazing matches, but they also weren't horrible. But we were kind of on the outside range of is this possible, just based on the level of matches that we got. And so.

• 15:14Derrick Levasseur?

  I remember the call. You guys said, well, she's definitely, she's Hispanic and that's going to make it a lot harder for us. And I said, okay, well, do what you can. That was the start of it. So Jeremy, maybe walk us through. You go over here, I bring you guys in, you're working with Moxie, it's not just you two over there, there's a team of people. How does that work? Cause it definitely takes a whole organization, a whole group of people, you're all attacking it from different angles.

• 15:39Speaker 03

  Right. There's a spreadsheet that we all participate in where we claim matches. So we look at the relatives that show up and Ryan says, I'm gonna work this one, Jeremy says, I'm gonna work this one, and everybody kinda works in collaboration together so that we're not stepping over each other. And so Ryan actually stumbled across the right track, and this has happened to me and Ryan several times.

• 16:01Speaker 02

  I always pick the right one, every time.

• 16:03Speaker 03

  I always choose the wrong way.

• 16:04Speaker 02

  Every time.

• 16:06Speaker 03

  And so he was able to work it, but there were, but there were a total of eight volunteers that we were all working on this collaboratively, but yeah, Ryan was the one that struck gold.

• 16:14Derrick Levasseur?

  So talk to us about that, Ryan, because how does that feel? You're sitting in front of a computer, you're drinking your coffee, your criminal coffee, of course.

• 16:21Speaker 02

  Right, of course.

• 16:22Derrick Levasseur?

  And you're working this case and you're, you know, you don't know if you've picked the right one. You could be just chasing a dead lead, but it's part of the process and it needs to be done. So what happens as you're sitting there in front of your computer, whatever you're doing, when you say, oh wait, I might have something here?

• 16:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, the blood starts pumping and you know, you start getting, like I gotta go for a walk, you know, like start pacing, get a little jittery. I mean, it is, it is exciting, it's a rush for sure, yeah.

• 16:50Derrick Levasseur?

  I remember getting the call. It was probably one, I don't know, text or whatever, it was late at first, but you guys know me, I'm always up, but I got the text message in the break group chat, and you say, you up, we got something to tell you. And when you said you had to call me, I knew it was good.

• 17:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's right.

• 17:05Derrick Levasseur?

  I knew it was good, and I was so pumped.

• 17:06Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 17:07Derrick Levasseur?

  And obviously, we couldn't tell anybody, I immediately called Stephanie the next morning cause she's not up till 2:00 in the morning, cause she's not a sociopath, but- I am up until 2:00 in the morning. Sometimes you are, sometimes you go to bed early though, sometimes- Sometimes. Um, but no, it was, I was so pumped for you guys, so pumped for everybody, cause I knew the chances weren't high. So talk to us a little bit more about Joanne's case in particular. What was it in her case as you were doing this match, if you remember it? What relative was it where you started to see a connection where you're like, this could be, this could be our person, this could be our family?

• 17:39Speaker 02

  So like I said earlier, you you you find that cluster of matches and you're looking for the common ancestor. You know, I called him Mr. and Mrs. Smith, you know, and you know, you find that that couple and then you're kind of working backwards in time to find out who their descendants are. And so in this case, I mean, you know, it's like whoever the couple was, we need to find all of their second great grandkids because it's probably one of them, you know, and that's a lot of people, you know, and and you can always use some clues to kind of narrow down which one it's gonna be. We know we're looking for a female, for example. We know that we are looking for somebody who was born in probably like the 1960s ish. So that helps. We know we're looking for somebody that lived in Houston, Texas, obviously, because that's where she was was found. So with all those

• 18:24Speaker 02

  criteria, you're able to kind of narrow down the field and eliminate people. And ultimately, you know, we we sort of found the the Zamora family and realized that they had been living in Houston, Texas in the 1990s. And that's kind of when, you know, you start to realize, oh, this is something we've we've found something here. And Jeremy found something exciting at that point, too. So.

• 18:48Speaker 03

  When Ryan said, I think this is the family. So I looked up in one of our PI databases, kind of skip trace to see where they lived. And it turned out that Jane, or Joanne, rather, 's body was found less than two miles away from her mother's house. It's like, this can't be a coincidence. We're definitely at, you know, we have the right person.

• 19:08Derrick Levasseur?

  This was that call when you said it. And and talk to us about that, Jeremy, because you actually went to Houston and you sat down with Spencer and Joanne had other children as well?

• 19:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, six children in total.

• 19:19Derrick Levasseur?

  Six children in total. And you went down there and you went on your own dime, went down there, saw her, which you're just amazing. And both of you guys, you guys care so much. Once you make that match, Ryan, Jeremy, you have that match, it looks good on paper, but now there's a physical element to it because it's not just enough to have it in the computer. You got to start making some calls, right, Jeremy? There's this, you have to start interviewing people to see, hey, Are you missing anybody? Did a family member ever disappear on you?

• 19:46Speaker 03

  Yes, and that part we weren't involved with directly. Another member of the moxie team would then work with law enforcement. And law enforcement would take that tip, that lead, and go to the family and talk to them. And that's where they were able to confirm that it was Joanne.

• 20:00Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, it's incredible. It's absolutely incredible what you guys do.

• 20:03Speaker 03

  And we started this case, I think, late December or mid-December and solved it by January. Yeah, it took a month.

• 20:09Derrick Levasseur?

  Pretty damn good.

• 20:11Stephanie Harlowe?

  That's really good.

• 20:11Derrick Levasseur?

  Pretty damn good. Yeah, Stephanie and I have known for a while, but we've been chomping at the bit to say something. And unfortunately, we weren't allowed till as of late, but...

• 20:20Stephanie Harlowe?

  We were dropping little hints here and there, but yeah.

• 20:23Derrick Levasseur?

  Just a couple. No, it's incredible. It really is. And before you guys jumped on, I let the audience know that you guys have graciously volunteered your services. I figured we could pick one person. You guys will be in the comments as well. What are some of the type of cases that you would be looking for to do here? Where if there's someone out there right now listening or watching and they have, what's the type of case that you would look at if they describe it in the comment section and say, "Hey, that's potentially promising where we can actually help"?

• 20:52Speaker 03

  I mean, anyone who's been adopted, that's, you know, easy. I say easy, because Ryan and I work in that world. It's much more easy to work with people who are adopted because we're able to use ancestry.com or ancestry DNA, whereas we can't use that in our genetic genealogy investigations because we're only able to use Jedmatch or Family Tree DNA. Those two databases are limited in scope for law enforcement. Whereas if we're working with adoptees or people who just don't know who their biological parents are, we're able to work with the actual consumer DNA companies, 23Me, Ancestry. And so we can, and that just gives you more data.

• 21:35Speaker 03

  So for example, Ancestry has like, you know, over 20 million users.

• 21:40Derrick Levasseur?

  Yep.

• 21:40Speaker 03

  Jedmatch has 2 million. So, you know, the bigger pond to fish in.

• 21:45Derrick Levasseur?

  That's a good distinction to make. I don't think a lot of people know that.

• 21:48Speaker 03

  It's easier to work within the ancestry database, but we're not able to do that with, you know, Jane Does, John Does and Cold Case.

• 21:55Derrick Levasseur?

  Imagine if we had access to that database for that.

• 21:58Speaker 03

  So it takes, it takes education. So people who have taken DNA tests from Ancestry 23Me to take, if they're interested in helping solve cold cases, crimes, violent crimes, we have to download a file from Ancestry or 23Me and upload it into Gedmatch or Family Tree DNA. And then you can opt in for law enforcement to match the violent crimes. And that way, people can help, you know, your DNA can help solve, solve cases.

• 22:29Derrick Levasseur?

  You guys were saying before this recording, I think it was last night, that you really wanted to push today to anybody listening or watching, go and upload your data to Gedmatch. If that's something that you believe in, if that's something you're okay with, upload it directly to Gedmatch. How would someone go about doing that, guys?

• 22:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, and this is a way that anybody can help, even if you know, you know who your parents are, you don't have a mystery you're trying to solve, you can still be involved in these efforts. Go to Gedmatch.com and you spell that G E D match.com. And, and they're gonna have right there on the website, a link you can click that will talk about the step-by-step of how to download your data from whatever site you tested at, Ancestry 23Me, and then upload it to Gedmatch. It takes like five, 10 minutes. It's, it's easy, anybody can do it. You do have to just take a test first. So if you've already taken one, you can do that literally right now. If not, but you're interested, maybe order that test. And then after you get the results in, you can take that step.

• 23:25Derrick Levasseur?

  That'd be amazing. So anybody out there right now who's listening or watching, if you're an adoptee, or you're looking to find your biological parents, Ryan and Jeremy may be able to help you. No charge to you at all, be completely done under break investigative group. If there's something more to it, if it's a cold case that your relatives in, and it's something where we need to get a little bit more involved with Criminal Coffee, we would entertain that as well.

• 23:46Speaker 02

  Absolutely. That'd be, that'd be great.

• 23:48Stephanie Harlowe?

  No, I agree. I think that, you know, I've gone back and forth about putting your information into these databases. But Gedmatch, that's, that's what it's specifically there to do. It's not this weird for-profit thing, you know, it's there to help.

• 24:04Stephanie Harlowe?

  Identify these people and that's very important and I highly encourage everyone to do it and I have done it myself.

• 24:09Derrick Levasseur?

  I have not actually done it yet and Jeremy was trying to get me to do it when we were at CrimeCon and I was going to do it. But I think it's something I have to do at home, but Jeremy, hold me accountable.

• 24:18Speaker 03

  Look at your D-Day kid.

• 24:19Derrick Levasseur?

  I'll do it. I'll do it. I'll give my, uh, my stamp of approval. I've been wanting to do it. I just, you know, gets away from you and you got a lot of white boys in the system already, so I don't know how much I'm gonna help.

• 24:31Speaker 03

  But, but Ryan, how close was the, was the match for Joanne? Like was a third cousin, was that the closest or something of that nature?

• 24:38Speaker 02

  You know, second, third cousin range, some, something in that nature. Yeah, yeah.

• 24:42Speaker 03

  So someone that distance is, is the reason why we were able to give Joanne back her name? So even if you, you know, you don't have anybody that you know that's missing in your family, your DNA can still help solve those cases.

• 24:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, most people don't know their second or third cousins, you know, uh, but you know, if one of them that you're related to is missing or, you know, whatever, like you could be the reason why they're identified. So, yeah.

• 25:04Derrick Levasseur?

  No, you guys are incredible. I'm so proud of you and, and we don't talk a ton about Break, but what we do, that we do a lot of air searches, surplus searches, not fun stuff at all, not criminal related. That's how we pay the bills, but what Jeremy and Ryan are really passionate about is IGG. And we are, are getting more into it now as we're growing Criminal Coffee and these two are rock stars. I told Moxie they were rock stars and they didn't let me down. And I appreciate you for that, cause you know me, my ego. I had to, I had to be right. But I appreciate you guys being here again. If someone out there right now is listening or watching this and you're someone who was adopted or is looking to find relatives of yours, you think there's a, a bigger family out there that you're just waiting to find and maybe there was some financial restrictions for you where you, or you didn't know where to go.

• 25:49Derrick Levasseur?

  Jeremy and Ryan are here right now. Break is gonna do it, no cost to you whatsoever. We wanna show you guys what we're capable of doing and maybe it'll incentivize more people to get involved with this process. Cause you at home right now, if you like true crime and you like solving cases. This might be an avenue for you because it doesn't really take, it takes a lot of, it takes experience and knowledge. You got to go to the schools to do, but this is something I would say almost anybody can do if they put the time in. Is that fair to say?

• 26:15Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 26:16Derrick Levasseur?

  Absolutely. Great. Well, we appreciate you guys. Next, we're going to bring on someone who's closer to Joanne than any of us could ever be. That's going to be her daughter Spencer. Guys, thank you so much. We're going to be right back with her.

• 26:28Stephanie Harlowe?

  Okay, so we are here with Spencer Graham, Joanne's daughter. Now Spencer, I know that your mother had six children and you were just two when she went missing and you were the second youngest of her children, correct?

• 26:40Speaker 04

  That's correct.

• 26:41Stephanie Harlowe?

  And so, I mean, obviously you're two years old, so you're not going to remember a lot from that time period, but as you grew up, I'm sure you had questions about who your mother was, where she was. Can you tell us a little bit how that went?

• 26:54Speaker 04

  Yeah, so I'm not sure how old I was when I first got the story, the whole story from when I was younger was that, you know, she had her own issues and there was a time that she could not physically be with us due to court orders. And so, one day she just couldn't do it anymore and she was going to visit us one Easter and she just disappeared.

• 27:29Derrick Levasseur?

  Never showed up.

• 27:30Speaker 04

  Never, never showed up. And so, for the majority of my life, I thought that she was just a mother who left behind her children.

• 27:41Stephanie Harlowe?

  So you grew up believing your mother abandoned you and your siblings?

• 27:44Speaker 04

  For the majority of it, up until a few years ago.

• 27:47Stephanie Harlowe?

  So how was it when you kind of got to a place where you thought, hey, maybe that's not what happened and maybe something happened to her that prevented her from coming back to us? What was the emotion you were experiencing in that time?

• 28:01Speaker 04

  Being a true crime fan myself, you know, I was putting some pieces together and...

• 28:09Speaker 04

  Thinking, yeah, she, she was murdered. I remember turning to my sister and telling her she's, she was murdered. And even though I said it out loud, I didn't truly believe it. It was almost as if I was talking about one of the true crime shows that I watch where you're like, oh, she disappeared. Nope, she's, she's buried somewhere. She hasn't been found. You know, it was almost as if I was speaking about somebody else's family.

• 28:41Stephanie Harlowe?

  I mean, yeah, absolutely. There's of course, after a certain amount of time passes, you're thinking to yourself, hey, she would have reached out by now. She would have made an attempt to reconnect by now. Nobody's seen her. Nobody's heard from her. This is not just a simple instance of a woman taking off and, you know, taking time for herself or getting space or just not wanting to take care of her responsibilities. Something happened to my mother. And based on your, your kind of knowledge and your interaction with the true crime community, you probably saw that it's very likely that, that this happens. This does happen. People think their parents or their loved ones leave them, but in fact, they encountered foul play that prevented them from coming back.

• 29:23Stephanie Harlowe?

  So it was almost as if it was something you hoped would be the case. I don't know which would be better, right? I, and I was thinking about this when I was reading about your mother and, and your, your story and thinking, I don't know, as a child, would you want to believe this person left me? Or would you rather believe that something happened to them and prevented them from coming back? But either way, you'd want to know what did actually happen. You'd want the truth.

• 29:49Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's, that's exactly it. Cause either outcome is heartbreaking, really. Obviously with the outcome of her leaving, at least it wasn't somebody who decided to just take her life for whatever selfish reasons.

• 30:05Derrick Levasseur?

  How was that like? I mean, I can't even imagine, I would assume, and please correct me if I'm wrong, initially when you thought that she had just left, she had just quit essentially. I would assume there was some, some resentment there, maybe a little bit, a little bit of wondering, how could she do that to us? Fast forward to when you get the call when we start poking around and moxie calls and Houston PD and they're saying, hey, just want to know, you know, this could be connected. What was that like for you personally? And, and walk us through that experience when you first found out that this was occurring all these years later.

• 30:38Speaker 04

  So the moxie, like the whole journey, I was actually not in the know at all.

• 30:46Derrick Levasseur?

  Wow.

• 30:46Speaker 04

  Until it was confirmed. So I have only known about this a little over two months. Um, I found out July 3rd and I guess this had been going on for months.

• 31:00Derrick Levasseur?

  Yes, it has.

• 31:01Speaker 04

  Yeah. So my mother's sisters, my aunt, they were in the know. They were testing their DNA. And it wasn't until they reached out to my sister, who then told me one day that she needed to talk to me. And I knew that it was serious because she wouldn't text it to me. She wouldn't call me and I was actually getting a little upset at her because, um, me and my husband have been almost like married almost 10 years. So we were redoing our vows in Vegas. So I was thinking she's going to cancel on me. She's not coming to Vegas for my vow renewal or something else.

• 31:44Speaker 04

  Like I was like, what could it be where she didn't want to talk to me? And so she came over after giving me, you know, a heart attack all day. And there was a second where she had said, you know, the ancestry.com like finding, I think that's kind of like a pathway they had finding out the connection that it was her. And there was like, just like a breath where a couple of things were running through my head. And I was thinking, where is she? You know, I was born in New Jersey, so she has ties to the East Coast. I was thinking, hmm, she has a family in New Jersey.

• 32:27Speaker 04

  You know, like, where are you going to tell me she's been at this whole time? And then within that next breath, it was. She was murdered in nineteen ninety-two. So it was just a lot of emotions. Um, you know, I think that this may be a funny analogy. But you know, when you think about winning the lottery.

• 32:53Derrick Levasseur?

  All the times, all the times, Spencer, every day.

• 32:56Speaker 04

  And you just have like, you know that the chances of winning the lottery are very slim. It's something that you dream about, though. And you you kind of think about what your life could be like if you win the lottery. And it's just nice to to think about it and to kind of have a little bit of hope. And then to basically be told you'll never win the lottery. That little bit of hope of your mother coming back into your life. And I told myself, I'm gonna give her a hard time for leaving us. And I'm gonna, I'm gonna be, I'm gonna let her get to know me. You know, I'm gonna give her hell and tell her, you know, you missed out on a lot.

• 33:37Speaker 04

  Me getting married, me having cancer in twenty twenty-four. All of these things that, you know, you need a mother for. I wanted to give her a hard time, but I was gonna let her in. And then that little bit of hope just vanished. And you're basically being told you'll never win the lottery. It will never happen for you. So it was heartbreaking in so many different levels.

• 34:08Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, I was, I was wondering that, you know, there's obviously, it's good to know. My mother didn't just leave me. But also now that that chance of reconnection, that chance of, like you said, letting her in. And having some opportunity to have a relationship with your mother, the only one, you know, you'll ever get. It was gone in that moment. So it's great to know what happened, but it's not the closure that you would have liked.

• 34:34Derrick Levasseur?

  How's your other siblings? You're one of six. Uh, you were saying at the top of the show, we were putting that out there. Obviously, you're here representing your family. But how is everybody doing? How's your family doing with this information? And knowing that at this point, it's an active homicide investigation. There's somebody out there right now, potentially it's responsible for for your mother's murder. And they could be someone from that area. I mean, we know where your mom was found, less than two miles away from your home at the time. Uh, how how are you guys doing?

• 35:02Speaker 04

  Yeah, so I'm representing, uh, representing all of my, um, siblings. They're mixed emotions, um, because even though that last couple of years, we thought that this could be the case, knowing it for certain is, is different. You know, they're, I would say, private. Unfortunately, my, our mom's story, it's a bit messy, you know?

• 35:31Derrick Levasseur?

  But you know what? Most family, most family dynamics are.

• 35:34Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah.

• 35:35Derrick Levasseur?

  That's the truth.

• 35:36Speaker 04

  So I think that they, they don't wanna be in the, you know, the spotlight. And, you know, honestly, I'm not a spotlight person. I'm an extrovert. I don't like to have my face out there, even though I've been doing news interviews and things like this. But I know that somebody has to be her voice, and I want that for her. I wanna, you know, shout out on the rooftop that she didn't just leave us and, you know, that she was trying to be a good mother. I know, speaking with my siblings, that regardless of exactly what happened, they wanna know it all.

• 36:19Speaker 04

  Even if it's hard to hear, they wanna know every detail and try to fit all of the pieces in, because there are a lot of gaps in her entire story. Especially us being so little and me not even being the youngest.

• 36:36Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah.

• 36:36Stephanie Harlowe?

  So at this point, are you working with the police department? Are they sharing information with you? Have they given any indication of what direction they're taking with this? What's next?

• 36:46Speaker 04

  Uh, a little bit. So there is a detective working on the case. And they have said that they have to reopen it, as if it's starting from scratch. You know, getting all of the, the details. And, um, I know that they have some evidence, at least, you know, of her jaw, you know? Things like that, that they still have. I- Don't know any more than that, um, but I do know that getting her story out there is really going to get us some, the answers that we're looking for. Cause somebody knows something.

• 37:21Derrick Levasseur?

  Hundred percent.

• 37:22Stephanie Harlowe?

  When she went missing, was there any sort of investigation on behalf of law enforcement?

• 37:25Speaker 04

  So her family did hire a private investigator, um, and I believe they also did a police report. And my family, you know, they just, they just thought that she left.

• 37:38Stephanie Harlowe?

  Okay. So at this point, what the police are doing is they're saying, hey, there's never really been an investigation into this. So we're going to take this as if we're starting from day one, hopefully retrace her steps, hopefully bring in some suspects, people who may have had interactions with her in the days leading up to her death, anybody who may have had a problem with her. And if, as far as you and your family goes and the people in your lives, are there any possibilities in your heads of, of something, someone who might've done this or a reason why?

• 38:11Derrick Levasseur?

  And you could be careful how you say this if you are, obviously it's an open case. So i- if you don't feel comfortable, that's fine, but you know, just be careful saying any names.

• 38:20Speaker 04

  Right. Well, I don't have any names. The only person that I could kind of point a finger at is whoever she was seeing at the time. Her and my father were not together at that time. And, you know, I mentioned a couple of years ago, how I think I, I rethought about her leaving versus her possibly some foul play. It's because my paternal uncle had mentioned, you know, she had her problems, but she loved you guys so much. And she would always call you to check up on you

• 39:05Speaker 04

  and want to come see you.

• 39:07Stephanie Harlowe?

  Because this was out of character to just disappear, right?

• 39:10Speaker 04

  Right. Yeah, e- exactly. And so that's when I turned to my sister and I said, she was murdered. And I think her boyfriend or the guy she was seeing at the time did it. Because we received a phone call, like my dad's side of the family and my grandmother, from a boyfriend asking, you know, where she's at because, you know, she was supposed to come show up, but, you know, she left with his camcorder and I, you know, some money and, um, I think that there's different stories of, oh, she, he's claiming she took off and then there's stories about, oh, I gave her bus money. I just wanted to see if she showed up.

• 39:55Speaker 04

  And, you know, again, this, this could be the true crime person in me, thinking about these two things and, you know, how somebody could cover their tracks by, oh, you know, I just want to make sure she's, you know, they talk about people being close to the investigation in a way and they insert themselves. So I'm thinking they, you know, this person could have reached out to maybe clear themselves of, like, oh, I have no idea where she's at.

• 40:24Stephanie Harlowe?

  Or start to start a narrative of, and she took off. So don't look over here.

• 40:29Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, yeah. No, but that's, that's why these, solving these dough cases are so important because for an investigator, the first thing you do is look at the victim and develop a profile on them. Who were they around at the time of their disappearance or their murder? Were they having any issues? Where were they the last time they were seen? All these really important details that you get pretty much right from the beginning. Well, if you don't know who the person is when you find them, you can't do that. So now, having that information, detectives can start this case where it should have started in 1992, but they were unable to do so. And, I mean, I guess that's like where I want to go with this because we're always trying to promote here on Crime Weekly, you know, if you know something, say something.

• 41:12Derrick Levasseur?

  But also with what we're doing with Criminal Coffee and how important it is to solve these cases where you just don't know who the person is because it doesn't only have an impact on that victim, it has this residual impact on the entire family. And that doesn't stop after a year or two when the case goes cold. That's with them forever and you're walking, talking proof of that. And so. For me, it's so important to have you on here. We didn't have this with our last case. And for people to be able to listen to you and see you and see the impact it's had on you, I think is extremely important for not only true crime, but any type of nonprofit, whatever you're doing to raise money for these causes. I think hearing from you is extremely important.

• 41:51Speaker 04

  Yeah, you mentioned that it really sticks with you. My whole life, ever since hearing, you know, the story since I was younger, I've had this fear of somebody that I love just disappearing. So if my husband goes somewhere and he doesn't like check in, you know, with me, this split second moment, I think about those true crime, you know, scenarios, the story of my mother and think, something's happened to him and I'll never find out. And I also fear that if something happens to me, that nobody will find out. It's literally something that sticks with me daily.

• 42:36Speaker 04

  And it's all because of these answers that I never thought that I would have.

• 42:43Stephanie Harlowe?

  I think we all in the true crime space get that way. And I know that there's a lot of people, my kids, close friends, family, who, you know, if they leave my house, I'm like, text me when you get home. And then if they don't, I'm that weird person that's like, you're home, right? Like, I need to know, you're home, correct? So yeah, it makes us all very hyper vigilant and worried. And for you, I imagine it's tenfold, especially now. This is going to be, you know, a traumatic thing that does stick with you. But when this happened, she was living in Houston and so were you, correct?

• 43:16Speaker 04

  Actually, no, I was living in Austin. I've, I only lived in Houston when I was just a little bit younger for a short time. But I was living with my grandmother on my father's side.

• 43:29Stephanie Harlowe?

  So she was supposed to visit you for Easter in Austin?

• 43:32Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 43:33Stephanie Harlowe?

  Okay, but she was living in Houston?

• 43:35Speaker 04

  That's right, yes.

• 43:36Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, less than two miles from that house where she was found.

• 43:39Stephanie Harlowe?

  So when her body was found, was there any coverage on the news, on TV, about a woman's body being found that made its way to Austin? Or to anybody who knew you? Or was, were these two things just never put together?

• 43:53Speaker 04

  They were never put together. Um, and honestly, even if it was, I don't think that we ever would have connected to the dot, like the dots, because she's Hispanic, you know, it said that she was white. It said that she has scoliosis, which I didn't know about that. And that she had artificial teeth and her family would have known that because they have like this, like this um, kind of like disease that she apparently.

• 44:21Derrick Levasseur?

  Genetic disorder in the teeth?

• 44:23Speaker 04

  Yeah, um, apparently since she was like, you know, younger, like a teenager. Um, I never knew that. Me and my sister were very surprised when we found that out. Um, but apparently it's something on, you know, her side of the family. Luckily that we didn't inherit. Um, so all of these things, I never would have put them together, even if I had that path, to find out like if she was a missing person, I would have just scrolled along and said that's, that's obviously not her.

• 44:52Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, that's, these things have disqualified her from being, yeah, I see what you mean. Oh, very, very sad, but I'm really so happy now that you have some answers.

• 45:01Derrick Levasseur?

  Some answers, yeah, of course.

• 45:02Stephanie Harlowe?

  And you can start.

• 45:03Derrick Levasseur?

  More to come, hopefully.

• 45:04Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, resolving that, moving on as far as the emotional aspect of it. The criminal aspect, the technical aspect, that continues. But as far as, you know, in yourself, you weren't left and you were loved. And that's so, I think, I mean, important to know at the end of the day. And, and we really appreciate you coming on here and talking about your mom and talking about this. It has to feel very strange to be thrust into the public eye suddenly. This is a very private matter, but we appreciate you being so open and talking about your mom and what happened to the, the Crime Weekly viewers who, who do care very, very much. You know, they wouldn't buy criminal coffee and they wouldn't be so, um, you know, intense about finding out what's happening with these cases.

• 45:46Stephanie Harlowe?

  They care and, and they're, you know, they're going to be a part of your family now too. And they're going to be wanting to know what's going on and, and wanting to see this case move forward. So you have a whole slew of supporters behind you right now who are not going to let this fade to black again.

• 46:00Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, and by the way. This isn't over, right? Like, we, we, we found your mom. She's now gonna be reunited with you guys, but now we have to find the scumbag who did this. And as, I don't know if you know this or not yet, but we're putting up a $5,000 reward from Criminal Coffee, where if there's information that leads to an arrest and a conviction, there's money on the table. So for no other reason than for the money, come forward and say something. If you know something, if you're out there right now, listening or watching, I'm also gonna, right here on the screen, and also say for audio, uh, the Houston Police Department's homicide main number is 713-308-3600.

• 46:39Derrick Levasseur?

  They also have a cold case squad, which is phone number 713-308-3618. If you know anything about Joanne, or people she was around during that time, maybe there was something that was said in a bar, or at a get-together, or a friend or family member who was acting weird around the time when this occurred. If you know something, say something. Come forward. You can remain anonymous. You can help bring this case to a close, and make sure that the person who's been probably out there, walking around all these years, is finally held accountable for what they did. There's time to make a difference, not only for Spencer, but for her entire family, and for, most importantly, for Joanne, because you're very kind to bring up the fact

• 47:22Derrick Levasseur?

  that your, your family dynamic wasn't perfect. You don't have to disclose that. But no family is perfect. And everyone goes through trials and tribulations. But regardless of what's going on, nobody deserves this. Your mother did not deserve this. She needs justice. We have an opportunity to give it to her and your family, so I'm hoping we can do it. I really am. But either way, we're here for you, no matter what you need. Yes, absolutely.

• 47:46Speaker 04

  Thank you for all of that, for the, you know, the reward. Um, also for, you know, donating to this case, because I definitely wouldn't have answers yet. There's other, you know, Jane Does and John Does that are still, you know, waiting to kind of get their story solved. I do appreciate, you know, everything, um, the both of you. Um, I know that I certainly want answers for me, of course, selfishly. I think also...

• 48:22Speaker 04

  I want other people to kind of get this type of feeling that I have. And so I feel super passionate, uh, moving forward to, you know, do whatever I can to also kind of give like this relief, um, to other people. I think that you can relate to this because you're true crime fans. There's two mysteries I always wanted to have solved. My mother's and what happened to JonBenet Ramsey. So it's just got one of those already.

• 48:56Stephanie Harlowe?

  Oh.

• 48:57Derrick Levasseur?

  Get in line.

• 48:58Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah.

• 48:59Derrick Levasseur?

  Get in line.

• 49:01Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yo, y'all want to know that one.

• 49:02Derrick Levasseur?

  We definitely do. Well, thank you so much for being here, Spencer. Anything you need, let us know.

• 49:07Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah.

• 49:07Derrick Levasseur?

  Obviously, I'm sure everyone will be showing their love and support in the comments.

• 49:10Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yes, they will.

• 49:11Derrick Levasseur?

  And, uh, hopefully we'll be talking to you soon and we'll have another update and it'll be a big one.

• 49:15Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yes.

• 49:16Speaker 04

  Thank you, Wolf. I really appreciate it.

• 49:18Stephanie Harlowe?

  Okay. So thank you, everybody, for joining us for this special crime weekly episode. I know that you all are as happy and pleased with the results as we are. You get to see the face of somebody who was personally and directly impacted by the funds of Criminal Coffee to help solve her mother's case, or at least give her mother her name back and hopefully leading

• 49:38Derrick Levasseur?

  Let's hope.

• 49:39Stephanie Harlowe?

  to solving the case. It was so nice to hear from Spencer directly, emotional, obviously. I, I, I can't, I think I'm, I'm not just speaking for myself when I say that we all can relate to what she's saying on a, on a very human level. And it's good that she has some information, but as Derek said, the battle is just starting. And hopefully this leads to some real answers and, and then action as well. So Derek's going to give you the number to call again, one more time. If you have information, if you do know something, as Spencer said, she's sure somebody knows something out there.

• 50:13Derrick Levasseur?

  Definitely knows something here, no doubt about it. Homicide main number is seven one three, three zero eight, three six zero zero. And the cold case squad is seven one three, three zero eight. 3618. And like I said when Spencer was on, you can remain anonymous. If you know something, just give them some breadcrumbs. Let them follow them.

• 50:30Stephanie Harlowe?

  And we really appreciate everybody being here. And as we did last time with Albert Frost, we are going to offer anybody watching a special discount on Criminal Coffee. So you can re-up on your coffee and continue contributing to solving future cases. And the discount is going to be 10% off. And all you have to do is use the code JOANN. J-O-A-N-N.

• 50:53Derrick Levasseur?

  All one word. And just like with Albert, we sold a ton of coffee after that. Listen, whether you purchased one bag two years ago, this isn't just, I'm not just saying this to hype you guys up. You helped solve a case. And so if you didn't get in on it the last two cases now, you didn't get on the first two, we're going to keep going. We're not stopping anytime soon. Be part of this. Come join our community. If you want to help people like Spencer, check out Criminal Coffee. Or if you don't, go to a nonprofit, do something, give something if you can, if you're able to do so, because these cases matter and it really truly does make a difference. And I'm so proud of what we've been able to accomplish in two years with this little company, little criminal coffee company right here, just doing

• 51:37Derrick Levasseur?

  it out of our own office. We have contributed to solving two cases. If you told me that three years ago, I might have doubted you, but we're just getting started. And as we continue to grow and spread that message, hopefully, we're able to do more, more frequently. That would be the plan.

• 51:52Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yes, absolutely. And like Derek said, it's kind of a complicated industry.

• 51:56Derrick Levasseur?

  She's my, Stephanie's my therapist, behind the closed doors about this, because it is not easy. Lot of gatekeeping going on with these cases.

• 52:06Stephanie Harlowe?

  Lot of gatekeeping, a lot of egos at play.

• 52:09Derrick Levasseur?

  How do you put it? Stipulations on everything, you know, they want your money. And I'm not calling on anybody specifically, but it's a complicated thing. And that's why I brought Jeremy and Ryan in as well, because I just know, I just know what they're capable of. And I knew that if it was solvable, they were going to solve it. They did. Final words to you. I'm excited. I'm pumped.

• 52:29Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yes, I'm very excited. Yeah, I'm just, I, like you said, I'm proud of everybody. I'm proud of the people watching, the people purchasing. I'm proud of you. I'm proud of Jeremy. I'm proud of Ryan. I'm proud of Spencer.

• 52:39Derrick Levasseur?

  I'm proud of you, Stephanie.

• 52:43Stephanie Harlowe?

  I just think it's a great thing when people come together for good.

• 52:46Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, absolutely. Thank you to Moxie Forensic Investigations, Intermountain Forensics, Houston Police Department, everybody involved. It takes a whole group of people to get this done, not just one person.

• 52:56Stephanie Harlowe?

  It takes a village.

• 52:56Derrick Levasseur?

  Takes a village, exactly. And let's find this person. Let's find this person and plaster their face everywhere.

• 53:03Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, thank you so much for being here, sticking with us. And as always, if you're listening on audio, thank you. If you're listening on YouTube, please let us know what you think about it in the comments and give Spencer some love.

• 53:15Derrick Levasseur?

  Until next time, guys, everyone stay safe out there. We'll see you soon.