The SECRETS to Glowing Skin - Tackling Breakouts, Wrinkles & Skin Barrier Damage with Dr. Sandy Skotnicki

Here’s a run down of today’s show on skincare: 00:00 - Introduction 02:32 - Skincare essentials 05:15 - How the gut microbiome affects our skin 08:32 - Diet Recommendations for acne, eczema, psoriasis, rosacea, and premature aging/ wrinkles 11:49 - Impact of stress on skin 12:30 - Impact of lack of sleep on skin 15:49 - Skin Barrier 101 19:55 - Natural Skincare vs Synthetic 24:17 - Tween Beauty and Influencers 28:44 - Skincare Myth vs Fact Check in with today’s amazing guest: Dr Sandy Skotnicki Instagram: @drsandyskotnicki Website: drsandyskotnicki.com Podcast: skintoitpodcast.com Book: Beyond the Soap by Dr. Sandy Skitnicki References: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6115795/#abstract1 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30079512/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4884775/#S0003 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18194824/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30079512/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11151999/#s3 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31453631/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7432353/#sec3-ijms-21-05405 https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8794493/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5718124/#sec4 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38854476 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38192916/ Disclaimer: The content in this episode is for educational and entertainment purposes only and is never a substitute for medical advice. If you’re struggling with with your mental or physical health, please work one on one with a health care provider. If you have heard yourself in our discussion today, and are looking for support, contact the free NEDIC helpline at 1-866-NEDIC-20 or go to eatingdisorderhope.com. • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • •✨ Reach Your Weight & Health Goals — Without Dieting! Pre-order The Hunger Crushing Combo Method, Abbey’s revolutionary additive approach to eating well. Learn how to boost satiety, stabilize blood sugars, reduce disease risk, and improve your relationship with food — all while getting the best nutrient bang for your caloric buck. With 400+ research citations, cheat sheets, evidence-based actionable tips, meal plans, and adaptable recipes, The Hunger Crushing Combo Method is the only nutrition bible you’ll ever need. 👉 Pre-order today! 🛒 Where to Purchase: Amazon Barnes & Noble Amazon Kindle Apple Books Google Play Kobo Apple Books (Audiobook) Audible abbeyskitchen.com/hunger-crushing-combo • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • •✉️ Subscribe to My Newsletters: Abbey’s Kitchen Newsletter 📘 Check out my FREE E-Books: Hunger Crushing Combo™ E-Book Protein 101 E-Book 👋 Follow me! Instagram: @abbeyskitchen TikTok: @abbeyskitchen YouTube: @AbbeysKitchen Blog: abbeyskitchen.com Book: The Mindful Glow Cookbook • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • 🎧 Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen — and leave us a review! It really helps support the show ❤️ 💬 If you liked this podcast, please like, follow, and leave a review — and let me know who you’d love to hear about next! ⭐ ⭐ ⭐⭐ ⭐ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the HouseMajorityPac.com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 0:31Speaker 01

  I always say, when people say natural, I go, poison ivy is natural, arsenic is natural. Doesn't mean it's better for your skin. It might be better for the planet Earth, but not necessarily for your skin.

• 0:45Abbey Sharp?

  Welcome to another episode of Bite Back with Abbey Sharp, where I dismantle die culture rules, call out the charlatans spinning the pseudoscience, and help you achieve food freedom for good.

• 0:59Abbey Sharp?

  Today's episode, we are going to be talking all things skincare. And as I inch closer to 40, I am personally super invested in all the tips. But skincare isn't just about aesthetics. It's your body's largest organ and one of its most powerful storytellers. From persistent breakouts and dryness to dullness or sensitivity, what's happening on the surface may tell us something about what's going on inside. Hormones, gut health, nutrition, hydration, stress levels, sleep quality, and even immune function all play a role in shaping the look, feel, and health of your skin. And to help me unpack it all is Dr. Sandy Scott Nicky,

• 1:44Abbey Sharp?

  a Toronto-based dermatologist, professor at the University of Toronto, podcast host, and author of the book Beyond the Soap. As an expert on all things skin, I am so excited to be chatting with her on what women actually need in their skincare routine, skincare facts versus fiction, and the role that the skin barrier, stress, sleep, and our gut health play in our skin health. And at the end, I will be going through the unique role that Diet plays in conditions like acne, eczema, and psoriasis. And of course, I'll be sharing the best foods for support. If you're on a mission to get healthy, glowing skin, then this episode is a must listen. I already know I am going to learn so much from Sandy, and I absolutely know that you will too.

• 2:30Abbey Sharp?

  Now, a quick note that the information in this episode is not a replacement for personalized health advice. So always speak to your doctor or dermatologist about your unique needs. Also, I would love, love, love if you would subscribe to the podcast wherever you are listening. And please do leave me a little review and a comment because it really, truly does help me out.

• 2:58Abbey Sharp?

  Well, Sandy, thank you so much for joining me.

• 3:01Speaker 01

  It's a real pleasure to be here. Thanks.

• 3:03Abbey Sharp?

  Okay, so there is like no shortage of, you know, skincare products and procedures being promoted online. And it's so hard to like know what is like hype and what is an actual hack. And obviously, everybody's different, you know, all of our needs are unique. But if you were to just like pick a handful of products, just like kick us off here. What would be the most essential products for for women to have?

• 3:29Speaker 01

  Well, first of all, with your first comment, I mean, it's just, it's not just become, it's such a problem now. Like there are, everybody's so confused. And and then that's why, you know, we need more information podcasts and not not 10 second, you know,

• 3:44Abbey Sharp?

  Influencer clips?

• 3:44Speaker 01

  Yeah. Or a 30 second reel.

• 3:46Abbey Sharp?

  Right.

• 3:47Speaker 01

  What is the like in your, in my bag, like people say, what's in my bag? I mean, obviously, I'm a dermatologist. I'm going to say sunscreen.

• 3:53Abbey Sharp?

  Yes.

• 3:53Speaker 01

  I like, like, one of the tips and tricks is like to have a sunscreen powder. Like, you're not going to use sunscreen powder as a one off, but it's nice to have it, you throw it in your bag. A little shout out to Color Science, since I have no, no association with them. They, I think they have the best powder. They've actually shown some studies, like they have done some studies to show. So that's a great tip. And as far as like my nighttime routine, is this what you're getting at? I kind of. I do exactly what I would tell my patients. I use a, uh, something for decreasing aging or rolling back aging. I don't like the term anti-aging. So I use retinols. I use peptides. I don't like to wash my face aggressively. I have very sensitive skin, so I typically use a micellar, micellar water.

• 4:38Abbey Sharp?

  Okay.

• 4:38Speaker 01

  Wash. My favorite is Bioderma. And moisturizer, I, I might use a little bit more, I like cycloids.

• 4:44Abbey Sharp?

  Yeah.

• 4:45Speaker 01

  If I, if a retinol is too irritating or a peptide, a serum underneath a moisturizer. And my moisturizers vary because I have so many ones that I try.

• 4:53Abbey Sharp?

  Right.

• 4:54Speaker 01

  And I think that's the whole key is, once you find something you like, stick with it. Or if you're that type of person who always likes to try something, just be careful because you can react and you can't go by the hype.

• 5:04Abbey Sharp?

  Right. And, and if you're putting like a million things on your face at the same time, you don't know what you reacted to.

• 5:09Speaker 01

  That's the whole point. And that's what a lot of my book is about. And so like, it's about eliminating, just like a product, like a diet elimination, you can product eliminate. So whenever you've had a reaction, yes, take everything away. Don't throw it out. Go back to three or four things that have very little in them. And then reintroduce one product per week.

• 5:25Abbey Sharp?

  Okay. That is a really great, you know, great, some great tips there to, to start us off. Okay. And, you know, we're going to talk about a lot of things today. Um, and I want to just preface that we're going to be focusing mainly on like lifestyle, uh, factors when it comes to skin. But there's a lot of other non-controllable factors in play, like genetics.

• 5:43Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 5:43Abbey Sharp?

  Just getting older, different life stages, pregnancy, postpartum, you know, menopause, et cetera, you know, medications, infections, all that jazz. But I want to kind of start with the role of the gut, because this is something that I'm interested in. Um, and a lot of people don't know that we have this like bidirectional, this two-way communication street called the skin gut axis. And when we see dysbiosis, we, you know, we tend to potentially see, you know, inflammation or, you know, um, immune dysfunction or nutrient deficiencies, you know, malabsorption. Um, and all that can affect the skin. So can you just talk a little bit about some of the ways that you might see like gut dysbiosis appear or present itself on the skin?

• 6:23Speaker 01

  I came, I kind of look at it slightly different than you as a dermatologist. And I always think about when I went to medical school, which I am dating myself now, thirty years ago plus, we never even talked about how food affects the skin. Right. So my general statement, and I did do a little bit of research on some of the studies, but generally, like, let's say you came in to see me as a patient. At your age, you would get adult acne, cyclical, round your cycle, you'd get a cyst or two. And then you say to me, okay, I'm going to do X, Y, and Z that you've told me to do, Dr. Skonik, what about my diet? So this is where I kind of come in as, at it generally, like, okay, what are, what is the science? Where, where are the studies at?

• 7:07Speaker 01

  So the number one thing is anti-inflammatory diets. Yeah. Okay. So if you have an inflammation, whether it's an inflammation in the skin, inflammation in your joint, we could be talking about somebody with arthritis. Right. I would say, follow an anti-inflammatory diet. Of course, we'll talk a lot about that, too. Eat some blueberries, leafy greens, et cetera. The next thing, and there's actually now some really good science on high glycemic foods. So when you eat, I always use this as an example of my patients, and I, I don't mean to be, you know, because you're the dietitian, but when you drink a glass of orange juice, your sugar spikes. We see on a graph. Yep. When you eat an orange, because you've got the fiber, you've got everything else, the glycemic or sugar spike is low.

• 7:49Speaker 01

  And so when you have that high spike, you induce insulin growth factors. And that drives an inflammatory response, basically drives cortisol, cortisol just turned into testosterone, testosterone to the dopamine. So I do think there's a big role with foods that cause high glycemic spikes. And people, you know, the old adage, I ate chocolate and I got acne. I mean, there's actually now some science. And then the last thing is the probiotic. So when I looked at the probiotic data, there was one actually really good 12-week randomized controlled double-blind study, which for your listeners, if you don't know, I'm sure you do, that means it's a good study. Right. Now, I don't know how robust it was or the power, but they looked at oral probiotic supplements.

• 8:33Speaker 01

  And for people with acne between 12 to 30 years old. And there was a 50% improvement compared to benzoyl peroxide.

• 8:41Abbey Sharp?

  So.

• 8:42Speaker 01

  There is some, the research is happening.

• 8:44Abbey Sharp?

  Right.

• 8:45Speaker 01

  There is something to, if you have a dysbiosis. My, when I talk to microbiome researchers, like I had a guest on, I was, we were talking about before the show, that he worked in, you know, all the major microbiome labs in the world. They, we don't know exactly which one to give.

• 9:00Abbey Sharp?

  Right, we don't know.

• 9:01Speaker 01

  Right. You can't suggest something to treat a disease if you don't know what the normal is.

• 9:06Abbey Sharp?

  Right.

• 9:06Speaker 01

  What is the normal microbiome of the skin? What is the normal microbiome of the gut? Well, we don't really know that. And there's no normal because if you live in the desert or you live in a jungle or you live in a city, it's, you know, and your diet is X, Y, Z, it's all going to be different. So it's one of the biggest nuts we have to crack. It doesn't mean we can't try using something. For acne, there's topical probiotics that have been studied. I actually suggest oral live in microbiome or bacteria when people, I'm giving them antibiotics for longer than

• 9:39Abbey Sharp?

  Of course.

• 9:39Speaker 01

  four weeks. There's some study that actually it might enhance the results of the antibiotic use. There was a study that showed giving antibiotics for acne with probiotic and without the, it was again, not a great robust study, but there was some, something to it. And then immune modulation, there was one study looking at giving a probiotic that increased an anti-inflammatory mediator in the gut.

• 10:02Abbey Sharp?

  Oh, interesting.

• 10:03Speaker 01

  So if you decrease, again, inflammation in the body, are you going to have an improved result when you give an acne treatment? So I think there's a lot that we still need to learn and it's a very interesting and fascinating topic. And it's something that as a physician, you don't know about, you should really educate yourself.

• 10:22Abbey Sharp?

  Yeah, and if not, you know, speak to a colleague who, who may have some more, you know, information, but you're right, like the, the challenge with the gut is we know there's a connection. We just aren't sure what the specific solution is.

• 10:37Speaker 01

  Right, because we don't know what the norm is.

• 10:38Abbey Sharp?

  We don't know what the norm is. Absolutely hit it on the, on the head. And, you know, I've also read some very interesting. Studies looking at, I know, you know, the idea of quote unquote leaky gut is a very controversial topic in in science space, but the more, you know, technical term intestinal permeability, there is some, you know, linkage there to some of those more inflammatory skin disorders like psoriasis, eczema, acne, things like that. They've looked at children with eczema and noticed that they may have lower levels of some of the more beneficial strains of bifidobacterium in their gut.

• 11:10Speaker 01

  Study on that.

• 11:11Abbey Sharp?

  So that's interesting. Even things like SIBO, which is a, you know, a functional gut disorder. They've seen that nearly 50% of rosacea patients also have SIBO. So we know there's obviously connections here. We just don't always know what the solution is.

• 11:27Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I think the trouble with all that, when you have an area that is sort of still evolving, that's when you get a lot of charlatas.

• 11:32Abbey Sharp?

  Of course, yeah.

• 11:34Speaker 01

  So my son, as we, as I was telling you, has IBS and, and he tried the SIBO diet, which isn't, or SIBO is the over.

• 11:41Abbey Sharp?

  Yes, it is, correct.

• 11:42Speaker 01

  He tried that. It's a, what's the acronym for the diet?

• 11:44Abbey Sharp?

  The SIBO is, the diet is the elemental diet.

• 11:48Speaker 01

  Okay, I don't know. He tried a couple.

• 11:49Abbey Sharp?

  Yes.

• 11:50Speaker 01

  Life on that. The, that's it, that's it. Yeah. And he did see some response, but it's not easy to follow.

• 11:55Abbey Sharp?

  Oh, it's terribly hard. It's terribly hard. It's not even meant to be a long-term solution. You know, you have to basically eradicate the SIBO. And actually, we do have a, an episode on SIBO. So definitely check that out.

• 12:19Abbey Sharp?

  Okay. So switching gears here because, and this is actually quite related in fact, because there's a, there's a gut-skin axis and there's a gut-brain axis. So I want to talk about the role of stress when it comes to skin, because that also may play a role. Can you kind of talk a little bit about, about that?

• 12:35Speaker 01

  Well, I had, I interviewed a psychiatrist dermatologist.

• 12:40Abbey Sharp?

  Hmm. Interesting combo.

• 12:42Speaker 01

  She was fascinating. I think there is, again, when I go back to my thirty years ago when I was in med school, not talking about anything that wasn't specifically organ driven or medicine driven. So I think the biggest issue there is sleep.

• 12:59Abbey Sharp?

  Mm hmm.

• 12:59Speaker 01

  Especially like, we probably don't sleep a lot.

• 13:02Abbey Sharp?

  No, no.

• 13:03Speaker 01

  And then just, yeah, stress. I mean, we know stress increases cortisol. And then when you drive cortisol, you drive inflammation. It's all connected.

• 13:10Abbey Sharp?

  Yes.

• 13:10Speaker 01

  It's all connected. And there's countless studies now, some of them very, very good, to show that, you know, if you don't sleep well, you age faster. You know, if you are, you can see stress in people's faces.

• 13:23Abbey Sharp?

  Yes.

• 13:23Speaker 01

  And you can see, like, I will, I try to go on a retreat now once a year where I sort of disengage, don't read, don't do anything. I come back and people go, wow, what did you do? I go, I basically did nothing for a week. And it's, that's, that, between that and sleeping is more cost effective than a lot of, you know, that's why I looked so much better before kids, guys.

• 13:46Speaker 01

  Wait, just wait, you know what they said? Stress. Well, when the kids get older, there's fewer problems, but.

• 13:54Abbey Sharp?

  They're bigger problems. I don't know that it's better.

• 13:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, enjoy what you can.

• 13:58Abbey Sharp?

  Mm hmm. Yep. Sleep is a big one, right? Like, a lot of us are not getting to sleep. We live in this, like, hustle culture where everyone's promoting, like, you've got to grind it out at night and then, like, get up for this, like, four AM morning routine. It's like part of your wellness routine. Like, that's seen as like a flex online. But obviously, like you said, it can do more damage than good because, you know, sleep is this time for our bodies to, you know, down regulate inflammation and release these anti-inflammatory hormones and repair skin cells and tissues and, and, you know, produce collagen and all that. So without that deep restorative sleep, we do see an increase in these, like, pro-inflammatory cytokines and a decline in immunity and boost in cortisol, like you said, insulin as well, which can play a role in acne.

• 14:44Abbey Sharp?

  So these things are absolutely connected.

• 14:46Speaker 01

  And so it's not just about sleeping. It's about sleeping well.

• 14:50Abbey Sharp?

  Well, yeah, yeah. So, you know, Cold temperatures, dark room.

• 14:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:55Abbey Sharp?

  Getting rid of the technology before bed, like, you know, real asleep hygiene 101.

• 14:59Speaker 01

  I know.

• 15:00Abbey Sharp?

  And we all, we know it's just very hard to actually do it, especially because we live in this like digital age where we're just like addicted to our screens.

• 15:07Speaker 01

  A good tip is to get an old fashioned alarm clock.

• 15:10Abbey Sharp?

  Yes.

• 15:11Speaker 01

  And leave your phone downstairs.

• 15:12Abbey Sharp?

  I love that.

• 15:12Speaker 01

  Right before bed.

• 15:13Abbey Sharp?

  Yep.

• 15:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:13Abbey Sharp?

  Cool fashion.

• 15:16Abbey Sharp?

  Ours, when we were growing up, it used to always just like turn the radio on. Um, so yeah, there's, I mean.

• 15:21Speaker 01

  There's lots of things. But you're right, to finish off on that, the, the, um, stress and lack of sleep, uh, you wear it on your face.

• 15:30Abbey Sharp?

  You wear it on your face. And actually, that just got me thinking too, about like, okay, dark circles and like puffy eyes. Like, what is that about?

• 15:37Speaker 01

  Mm hmm. Such a common question that's asked. I would say that the vast majority of that is genetics. You know, some people just have thinner skin there, their, their vasculature, their, their blood vessels, you just see more readily, they have a deeper groove. A lot of that is genetics. Then, you know, some things like if they have persistent, uh, rhinitis, which is, you know, allergy season in the runny nose, or they have, uh, chronic sinusitis, like that can cause congestion. And then, and asthma, so any of those kind of, and again, it's inflammation in the area, but, you know, that's not a large percentage of people. The vast majority of it is unfortunately genetics.

• 16:15Abbey Sharp?

  Got it, got it, got it. Okay. So another thing that we keep hearing a lot about is the kind of, you know, the, the skin barrier.

• 16:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:24Abbey Sharp?

  Um, can you just define what the skin barrier is and then we'll kind of talk more about it?

• 16:27Speaker 01

  Well, actually, I wanted to jump in there when you were talking about the leaky gut. So the, you know, the, the gut lining is an extension of the epidermis, right? When we're being made in, in utero, you know, there's the ectoderm, endoderm, mesoderm. So ectoderm is all of our outside skin, but it's also all the lining inside. They're, they're, they're similar.

• 16:46Abbey Sharp?

  Right.

• 16:46Speaker 01

  So you, if you have a leaky gut, that means the cells aren't, you know, right beside each other. You, that's what the skin barrier is. So the very, I like to make an analogy of a brick wall. So the very outer layer of our skin is called the stratum corneum. And it's actually dead. Cells are dead there. They're desiccated and they're like a brick wall. So the bricks are the cells. The mortar is the contour in between or which is the lipids.

• 17:11Abbey Sharp?

  Right.

• 17:12Speaker 01

  So if you have, and when it's tight and the wall is working well, um, your, your skin barrier is working well. When the, the mortar is decreased and the cells are far for further apart, which you can also use the term leaky.

• 17:27Abbey Sharp?

  Totally.

• 17:27Speaker 01

  That's a skin barrier that's um, not working well. The thing I, the problem I have, cause it's such a trendy thing right now. There's this like, I damaged my skin barrier forever. Well, no, I mean, cause we, our skin turns over every thirty days. So every thirty days, you're getting a new, that new wall. So if you kind of use too much exfoliant and you washed a little aggressively and you did too many masks. Okay, do nothing.

• 17:53Abbey Sharp?

  Do nothing.

• 17:53Speaker 01

  And then a month later, it'll repair itself. So there's all this like, I've damaged it forever kind of stuff on, on social media, which is not scientifically possible.

• 18:03Abbey Sharp?

  Right. So with the skin barrier, like what are some things that you see causing this damage?

• 18:08Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, you know, it's, it's everything we do to our, our skin, right? Um, because, well, first of all, just water itself will damage your skin barrier.

• 18:18Abbey Sharp?

  Oh.

• 18:19Speaker 01

  Well, think about it. So you've got this brick wall. The, the mortar is lipids. What dissolves lipids? Water. The hotter the water, the higher the pH of the water, so the more alkaline the water, the more you damage your mortar.

• 18:30Abbey Sharp?

  So that's how husband showers? Cold, cold husband showers?

• 18:35Speaker 01

  So the, the act of washing, then you add detergent or cleansers or soaps or whatever terminology you want to use. Soaps are actually more damaging than cleansers because they're usually high pH. The higher the pH, the more damaging to our skin barrier. Um, our skin is a pH of us four to six.

• 18:53Abbey Sharp?

  Okay.

• 18:54Speaker 01

  Okay. So it's acidic and on a gradient. And when you um, alkalize the skin through washing and through high pH soaps, you've damaged your skin barrier more. So you want to have pH adjusted cleansers. That's all where the whole pH things. The pH is important to maintain a skin barrier. Um, so. So when you do that, that will make the skin barrier dysfunctional. What else can make it? Well, you can take it off. You can exfoliate it. You know, with like, we don't need 11 year olds using retinol and glycolic acid. And um, because their skin barrier isn't fully like fully, fully formed. Like it is, but it's not working as well. And you know, there, when you over exfoliate, uh, those are the main two things that damage our skin barrier.

• 19:37Abbey Sharp?

  So all us millennials with the Saint Ives apricots scrub was not a good plan. I should, I I'm filing that one under like bad beauty, you know, hacks with the tanning beds and the sun in in my hair and like the ironing my hair on the ironing board.

• 19:55Speaker 01

  We did that one.

• 19:55Abbey Sharp?

  Oh, God. And then what do we do to repair it? Or does it just repair itself? You just like do nothing?

• 20:00Speaker 01

  So again, I mean, if you do nothing, you, your skin does regenerate in in 30 days. So and the skin barrier, um, like you're still washing and cleaning. So if you've really done a, done a really bad job, you kind of want to repair it. How do you repair it? You you replace the mortar. What is the mortar made out of? Lipid. So sphenol's phthalates, ceramides, all those catchy words you hear. Um, I mean, ceramides is the best thing. The question always was like, if you put it in a cream, does it actually absorb into the layers of the skin? And a few companies have shown that it does. But you know, everybody in their mother's making it in their garage. So like you, there is a reason why you want to use some companies that actually have some science behind them.

• 20:41Abbey Sharp?

  Okay, speaking of science behind them and not science behind them. So what about the beef tallow thing? Should we be like slathering ourselves in just like butter, fat oils?

• 20:51Speaker 01

  Well, beef tallow, I mean, it is, it's got some things in it. It's got some specific amino acids and things that repair the barrier. Can't remember all the details, but it stinks.

• 21:02Abbey Sharp?

  Yeah.

• 21:02Speaker 01

  And it's heavy and it can cause acne. You're better served with using things that, you know, have have, will have a same result. I guess the argument there is it's more natural, it's more, it's cheaper. But I always say, when people say natural, I go poison ivy is natural, ours is natural. Doesn't make it, it's better for your skin. It might be better for the planet. Earth. And so if you're putting beef towel and when you wash it off, it's going down the drain. It's probably better for the earth.

• 21:27Abbey Sharp?

  Great.

• 21:28Speaker 01

  But not necessarily for your skin.

• 21:30Abbey Sharp?

  Yeah, that's, yeah, I was gonna talk about that because actually on the podcast, we talk a lot about the appeal to nature's fallacy, which is, you know, basically this assumption that because it comes from nature, that it's inherently better, safer, you know, healthier.

• 21:44Speaker 01

  It is for the earth.

• 21:45Abbey Sharp?

  Fair, fair, fair.

• 21:46Speaker 01

  But not necessarily for our skin or our bodies. I mean, some, some of the most powerful, toxic medications we have in medicine come from plants. Do you know what, where the joxin comes from?

• 21:59Abbey Sharp?

  No.

• 21:59Speaker 01

  Do you know what the joxin does?

• 22:00Abbey Sharp?

  No.

• 22:01Speaker 01

  It's a, if you wanna kill somebody, Greg could take a syringe and put the joxin. It's a heart medication. It comes from foxglove.

• 22:09Abbey Sharp?

  I love foxglove. They're so pretty.

• 22:10Speaker 01

  That's why.

• 22:10Abbey Sharp?

  I know that they're bad.

• 22:11Speaker 01

  Plant it around your pet.

• 22:13Abbey Sharp?

  No, no, no, I know.

• 22:13Speaker 01

  They eat it, they die. So that fallacy of, again, the plant. But on the flip side, there's so many miraculous drugs and good things that come from plants. But this catchall, just because it's natural is better is, is not. And unfortunately for the skin, many times it isn't.

• 22:29Abbey Sharp?

  Right. And can you give us any other examples of like, quote unquote, natural products that are, you know, may cause more harm than good?

• 22:36Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, this, that the harm sometimes is, for me, like my academic interest is reactions. You know, people that had come in and have, have had bad reactions to skincare. I got a rash, I got a burning, it was whatever, my, my acne got worse. So it's ingredients that actually can aggravate the skin, like many, like the de joxin example, they're not gonna kill you. But in, in prop, the problem is, is it's mostly the essential oils. Now, the poison's in the dosage, you know, I have arguments with toxicologists and perfume people online. It is, like perfumes can be good if they're, the dosage is properly, not all of them are bad.

• 23:16Speaker 01

  So dosage is important, but, you know, it's mostly the essential oils where people often get reactions. And the number one cause of allergic reaction and irritant reaction into skincare is from fragrance, both synthetic and natural.

• 23:32Abbey Sharp?

  Wow. Yeah, that doesn't surprise me. I'm definitely sensitive. I really have to be careful about that. Sometimes you don't even know if it's if just reading these long lists, if it has some kind of fragrance, even if it's not, it might not say perfume.

• 23:45Speaker 01

  Right. Well, that's the legislation is going to change in Canada. I did a whole episode on regulation and labeling. So in Europe, if you see fragrance on a bottle, so fragrance is a perfume is a placeholder, a placeholder name, because you actually don't know what's in that. Because it's often proprietary, what makes, you know, Pantene smell like Pantene, and they don't want to give that recipe away. But if there are, there's kind of identified 26 fragrance allergens that are quite problematic from an allergy point of view, from sensitization. And now another hundred and something, and which many of which are essential extracts. So if you want to, as a company, use any of those hundred plus fragrance molecules

• 24:28Speaker 01

  in your fragrance recipe, you have to put it on the label.

• 24:32Abbey Sharp?

  Hmm, yeah.

• 24:46Abbey Sharp?

  I want to go back to something that you mentioned earlier about 11 year olds wearing retinol. Because like they, there's this whole kind of Sephora tween culture with all these like, you know, Gen Z skincare influencers putting all these, these things on their face. You know, products that like, when I was that age, I never, never would I have thought about retinol. I didn't even think about retinol until I was like 30.

• 25:10Speaker 01

  Right.

• 25:11Abbey Sharp?

  So like, what are the risks here and what should parents be looking out for?

• 25:14Speaker 01

  I think the number one, and, and not to keep plugging my podcast, but we did a whole episode on tweens. And I think when I, when I did all the research, I think the number one thing, especially, I have three sons. I mean, you have two sons. I don't have a daughter, but my friends that have daughters and they're teenagers, you're either have, you know, a very easy relationship with your daughter, or you're just constantly like just butting heads. I think what you want to do is not be dismissive. Because when you are dismissive, the teen will just go out and buy stuff anyway. So I think that's the number one point to take home that I got when I was researching for the, for the topic. And everything that I read. And then, you know, try to make it fun and do a little research together because a lot of them are very knowledgeable.

• 25:56Speaker 01

  And I'm like, okay, well, listen, this, this person read, wrote this and this, you know, read about everything and then go to Sephora together and say, well, let's try to get products that are fragrance free. Let's try it. Peptides seem to be safe, like they, they're, they're okay. We can use that. The whole Haley Berry, Berry, was Bieber. Um, hers all peptides. I mean, so you can focus on, you know, ingredients that have safety and make it fun and do it together. I think face masks, you know, those.

• 26:27Abbey Sharp?

  Oh, yeah.

• 26:27Speaker 01

  You can get bamboo ones.

• 26:28Abbey Sharp?

  I prefer those, yeah.

• 26:29Speaker 01

  They can be biodegradable. You can get fragrance free ones or maybe something like with watermelon and they have a sleepover. It can be fun. You can have formaldehyde free nail polish. Like there are ways of doing it and you do it together and you come out with products that there's the, get the boring stuff.

• 26:46Abbey Sharp?

  Yeah.

• 26:46Speaker 01

  The body wash, maybe the shampoo, and then let them have some fun with some other things.

• 26:51Abbey Sharp?

  Yeah.

• 26:51Speaker 01

  But I, I would encourage the parents to go with them when possible.

• 26:56Abbey Sharp?

  Yeah.

• 26:56Speaker 01

  That's a way of doing it.

• 26:57Abbey Sharp?

  No, of course. I mean, from my perspective, a lot of my job, you know, I'm a dietitian, but a lot of my job is, is really commenting on, you know, the dangers of what we see on social media every day when it comes to just our own mental and physical health. And so this is like such an old person thing to say, but like, I worry about the young people and like their exposure to social media. And the fact that they, you know, are used to seeing all skin through a filter, through this like glowy, sparkly filter, you know, all the stars are gone. That's not real life. We don't even know what real skin looks like.

• 27:31Speaker 01

  And now it's generative AI.

• 27:33Abbey Sharp?

  Right.

• 27:33Speaker 01

  It's even worse.

• 27:34Abbey Sharp?

  Even worse. And I actually just saw this like TikTok recently where people were commenting on like the real images of all the celebrities at the Met Gala. Because they were like real unedited skin and they were like, this is real skin. This is real skin. This is real skin. Because normally we see these celebrities after they've been edited and filtered, right? And so, um, we need more of that because I do think there's this like, this fear of the unknown of like what. Real skin looks like through the stages and I just always worry that when you know young people's kind of like wellness, the idea of wellness is centered in this aesthetic perfection.

• 28:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:15Abbey Sharp?

  That it displaces other really important acts of self-care, whether it's like friendships and play and movement and you know, emotional regulation and all those other things because their idea of wellness is just like putting 10 products on their skin to look a certain way.

• 28:32Speaker 01

  And that's really like you are as parents who always say we want our kids to be happy.

• 28:36Abbey Sharp?

  Right.

• 28:37Speaker 01

  Well, if you look at happiness, I was, we were talking about this earlier, it's your relationships with other people. It's giving back to society. It's cultivating purpose in life. It's not about your skincare. So I mean, but I think what I have evolved as a dermatologist through all this stuff that I do in social media is you can't just dismiss it.

• 29:00Abbey Sharp?

  Yep.

• 29:00Speaker 01

  So you have to be part of the discussion, especially as a dermatologist, we have to be part of the discussion. And you have to somewhat make it fun and especially as a parent and try to be part of the conversation.

• 29:12Abbey Sharp?

  Yeah, I love that. Okay, I want to just close off because sometimes I like to do this kind of like quick fire, like hype versus hoax segment in some episodes and there's obviously so many that we could cover. But okay, the first one, and I know the answer because you know, I'm very into this myself. Okay, you don't need sunscreen on a cloudy day.

• 29:32Speaker 01

  Oh, that's incorrect. Yes.

• 29:35Abbey Sharp?

  I feel like I'm, you know, I feel so vindicated.

• 29:38Speaker 01

  Well, actually the clouds filter out the UVB rays, which are the ones that kind of give you the sunburn. But the UVA rays still go through. I mean, a lot of it still goes through. And those are the more damaging ones that are associated with skin aging and skin cancer.

• 29:52Abbey Sharp?

  Right.

• 29:53Speaker 01

  They also go through windows.

• 29:54Abbey Sharp?

  Oh, gotta get those blinds down. You gotta wear sunscreen in the house at all times, even if you don't leave the house, folks. Um, okay, oily or acne prone skin does not need a moisturizer.

• 30:06Speaker 01

  I'm gonna even take that further. No skin really needs a moisturizer. Especially young people.

• 30:13Abbey Sharp?

  Fair.

• 30:14Speaker 01

  Right?

• 30:14Abbey Sharp?

  Yes.

• 30:14Speaker 01

  Moisturizer replaces, you know, something that you've removed through washing.

• 30:18Abbey Sharp?

  Right.

• 30:19Speaker 01

  It's not anti-aging. You know, unless it has an active that potentially does something. So, basic moisturizer is not necessary. If you are feeling like you're dry, you can use it. You can also use it if you're oily, because, you know, some people like this sensation. It's self-care again.

• 30:35Abbey Sharp?

  Right.

• 30:35Speaker 01

  But, you know, choose your moisturizer wisely if you're oily.

• 30:38Abbey Sharp?

  Okay, that's very helpful. You can shrink your pores in some way or another, can you?

• 30:44Speaker 01

  Well, a pore is very deep, by the way. And we're born with, it's just like, some people say, can I get more hair follicles? No, you're only born with so many. So, you're born with so many pores.

• 30:54Abbey Sharp?

  Right.

• 30:54Speaker 01

  And they're deep. So, you can increase the scaffolding around a pore. Think of it like a hole.

• 30:59Abbey Sharp?

  Uh huh.

• 30:59Speaker 01

  So, you can increase the scaffolding with things that increase collagen or elastin. That takes years. And so, if you use, you know, your products like Retin-A or glycolic acid over the years, your pores will continue to improve. If you wanna do it fast, you can do things that damage your pore and make it regrow. So, those are like microneedling. And then the next level would be fractionated injury with laser. So, you're actually, you're putting holes into the skin, which seems counterintuitive.

• 31:28Abbey Sharp?

  Yeah.

• 31:29Speaker 01

  And then you're, then you're reforming the skin. The skin's regrowing. And when it regrows, the pores can be tighter.

• 31:35Abbey Sharp?

  Oh, okay. The best way to get rid of a pimple is to pop it.

• 31:38Speaker 01

  Uh, no.

• 31:40Abbey Sharp?

  So, the pimple popper. Dr. Pimple Popper.

• 31:43Speaker 01

  Well, she's actually removing large

• 31:45Abbey Sharp?

  Fair, yes.

• 31:46Speaker 01

  epidermal and pilocyst. If you have a black head, that's the only thing, is a dermatologist, we say, you can take a tissue and very gently with a tissue, try to exfoliate, it's good to do, not exfoliate, to express it, after a shower where your skin's a little bit more moist and the pores are a little bit more open. But if you have like a closed pimple, no. If you have a big pustule.

• 32:08Abbey Sharp?

  Yeah.

• 32:08Speaker 01

  Like, no one wants to ruck around with a pustule. Again, very gently with a tissue, you can pop that, not aggressively. Because when, I always tell people, when you push a pimple, it's not only going up, it's also going down. You're pushing inflammation down. So... I hope that answers the question.

• 32:24Abbey Sharp?

  That does. And then after you, and then after you pop that pimple, what do you do? Like, what do you put on it?

• 32:29Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, if you have an opening, you want to make sure that it's disinfected. Like, wash your face. You could put some acne medicine over top, like salicylic acid, if it's over the counter, benzoyl peroxide, or something that your dermatologist gave you.

• 32:39Abbey Sharp?

  Great. Okay. That's good to know. And what about, like, just generally all of these kind of TikTok trends? Are there any weird things that you're seeing people put on their face? And you're like, why? Don't do that. We talked about the beef tallow earlier, but what else?

• 32:56Speaker 01

  So I, my partner in crime, who I do my podcast with, she's a TikTok fanatic. So I actually feel like I don't have to. I'm not a big TikToker. I am on Instagram. So one of the, some of the trends that we kind of looked at, you know, DIY, DIY sunscreen, big no-no. Okay, big no-no. Like, we chatted about DNA, salmon DNA. There's actually some studies, I don't know. Like, it's like, they take this DNA and the ribonucleus, the RNA, from sperm, salmon sperm, because it's similar to human. And then they're injecting that. This seems kind of weird, but there is some studies. Why are they doing that? Rejuvenation, it's DNA, it's all right.

• 33:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know. It's crazy. Other trends, you probably know more.

• 33:45Abbey Sharp?

  Snail mucin.

• 33:46Speaker 01

  Well, snail mucin, I mean, it's just, again, it's really, really, it's going to have a lot of hyaluronic acid, polysaccharides, which, all of those things are, like, hemactin's going to absorb water. So you're going to look like puffy and glassy and everything. But it's gone in, in like, you know, hours to a day.

• 34:03Abbey Sharp?

  Oh.

• 34:03Speaker 01

  And it's gross.

• 34:04Abbey Sharp?

  That seems like a, not worth the, not a good ROI for putting snail gunk on your face.

• 34:10Speaker 01

  No, it's kind of gross, yeah.

• 34:12Abbey Sharp?

  Okay, well, this was so, so helpful. Thank you so much, Sandy. And you have a podcast, Skin2It, and a book?

• 34:18Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 34:19Abbey Sharp?

  The book's called?

• 34:20Speaker 01

  Beyond Soap.

• 34:21Abbey Sharp?

  Beyond Soap, excellent. So I'm going to be leaving links to all of that below. So you can, you know, check out lots of great resources on your website and channel. So definitely, definitely check that out.

• 34:30Speaker 01

  Thank you so much for having me on.

• 34:31Abbey Sharp?

  Thank you.

• 34:35Abbey Sharp?

  Oh, that was so incredibly helpful. You know, some really good reminders here about how our overall health can impact our skin. And I did want to share a bit of like very top level nutrition insight into best practices for various skin conditions. Now, very broadly speaking, there are some very strong themes when it comes to skin health nutrition, regardless of the unique condition. That is, we want to try to focus on antioxidant-rich, high-fiber fruits, veg, and whole grains to reduce inflammation and feed our microbiome. We want lean protein, especially a lot of plant protein, and we want to focus on anti-inflammatory fats like omega-3s.

• 35:17Abbey Sharp?

  And we also, of course, want to limit alcohol, foods that are high in sugar, or animal fats. So if you've got those things down, you are likely at least 90% there regardless of what skin issue ails you. But there may be some more specific food triggers for some conditions in some people. So with acne, for example, many studies have shown an association between dairy intake and acne, with skim milk dairy being a greater culprit than full fat because it lacks the fat to buffer the blood sugar response and it tends to have more poor clogging compounds just because of how it's been processed.

• 35:58Abbey Sharp?

  Then there's eczema and psoriasis, which may be linked to certain food intolerances and gut dysbiosis, with some evidence that certain strains of probiotics may be helpful, along with omega-3s and vitamin D supplements. Then there's rosacea, where food triggers can be a little trickier to identify, but some of the more common culprits include cinnamon aldehyde foods like tomatoes, citrus fruits, and chocolate, I know, sorry, high histamine foods like aged cheese, sauerkraut, and processed meat, spicy food, and then again, alcohol.

• 36:34Abbey Sharp?

  And then finally, there's just good old fashioned aging, which is really where protein, especially collagen protein, may come into play, which research suggests may help to improve skin elasticity, hydration, and wrinkles. As always, any specific diet restrictions or supplements beyond the general Mediterranean heart healthy diet should ideally be explored and monitored with the help of a dietitian or dermatologist. But I really do hope that this was insightful for those of you who are struggling with frustrating skin challenges. And on that note, that is all that I have for today. Thank you again to Dr. Sandy Scott Nicky for helping me fight back against misinformation online. Signing up with Science and SAS, I'm Abbey Sharp. Thanks for listening.