Pod Insights Pop Culture Happy Hour Olivia Rodrigo you seem pretty sad for a girl so in love About this episode Olivia Rodrigo is back blending spikey rock with tender ballads. How do we feel about her evolving sound? Her third album you seem pretty sad for a girl so in love is a collection of fizzy, sometimes jagged pop songs about a love that goes amazingly well until it doesn’t.
If you’re looking for other fizzy pop songs, check out:
Taylor Swift re-enters her banger era in ‘The Life of a Showgirl’ https://www.npr.org/2025/10/06/nx-s1-5560827/taylor-swift-re-enters-her-banger-era-in-the-life-of-a-showgirl
Sabrina Carpenter returns with the short and saucy 'Man's Best Friend' https://www.npr.org/2025/09/04/nx-s1-5526878/sabrina-carpenter-returns-with-the-short-and-saucy-mans-best-friend
Harry Styles' new album has vibes all the time. Bangers, occasionally. https://www.npr.org/2026/03/11/nx-s1-5743431/harry-styles-new-album-has-vibes-all-the-time-bangers-occasionally
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Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
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0:27 Stephen Thompson? Olivia Rodrigo's first two albums were massive, chart-topping hits. Now she's back with a third collection of fizzy, sometimes jagged, pop songs about a love that goes amazingly well until it doesn't. I'm Stephen Thompson. Today, we are talking about Olivia Rodrigo's new album, "You Seem Pretty Sad for a Girl So in Love," on Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR.
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2:07 Stephen Thompson? Joining me today is NPR Music Editor Hazel Sills. Welcome, Hazel.
2:11 Speaker 04 Hey.
2:12 Stephen Thompson? It is a pleasure to have you. Also with us is NPR Music Reporter Isabella Gomez Sarmiento. Hey, Isabella.
2:18 Speaker 05 Howdy. Thanks for having me.
2:20 Stephen Thompson? It is great to have you. So Olivia Rodrigo was a Disney Channel star before pivoting to music full time, but she's been a superstar from virtually the moment she released her first single, Driver's License, five years ago. Like her first two albums, Sour and Guts, the new album mixes spiky rock with tender ballads while incorporating influences like Taylor Swift and Paramore. But it also contains several callouts to The Cure, up to and including Rodrigo's first ever featured guest, as The Cure's Robert Smith turns up to sing on the song "What's Wrong With Me."
3:09 Stephen Thompson? You seem pretty sad for a girl so in love is out now. Isabella, I'm gonna start with you. What do you think?
3:15 Speaker 05 You know, it's not my favorite Olivia Rodrigo album. I'll say that. There were moments that I really liked. I was excited to see Robert Smith on there. I think that she took risks, and sometimes they landed, and sometimes, for me, they did not. It was like a little bit too much piano. There were specific moments, like "Stupid Song," where I was like, this bridge rocks.
3:42 Stephen Thompson? Oh, the bridge is so good.
3:43 Speaker 05 Yeah, but like, I don't want to sit through that whole song. It's just, it's too slow. I don't.
3:48 Stephen Thompson? Wow.
3:49 Speaker 05 Anyway, I concede.
3:52 Stephen Thompson? So, mixed?
3:53 Speaker 05 Mixed.
3:53 Stephen Thompson? Is what I'm taking away from this?
3:55 Speaker 05 Mixed. It has moments that I will definitely come back to again and again, and I'm already thinking about. And then it has songs that I probably will never listen to again, if I can avoid it.
4:03 Stephen Thompson? Okay. How about you, Hazel?
4:04 Speaker 04 Yeah, I mean, I certainly was, I think, a little bit more negative on this album. I think that Olivia Rodrigo really pulled me in with Guts. I think that was her first album where... I felt like she had sort of emerged as a very exciting voice in pop music for me. And there was so much angst on that album and a very kind of specific point of view coming from like a young woman artist. And I, I think that she loses a bit of that specificity on this album to sort of create this larger narrative of, you know, being in love, falling out of love. And, you know, I think there are some strong moments. I think like her production on this album is really interesting. But I think overall, on like a songwriting
4:49 Speaker 04 perspective, I wanted more from her.
4:52 Stephen Thompson? Wow. Y'all, I'm, I think I am the token person on this panel who is completely O-Rod pillbilled.
5:00 Speaker 04 Yeah.
5:01 Stephen Thompson? What she does works for me. It's worked for me since Sour. I think she kind of emerged pretty fully formed as a, just a very strong presence, a strong songwriter, a very strong singer and live performer. Every time she's popped up, you know, any, you know, singing on SNL or whatever, I just think, wow, her vocals are really, really strong. And to me, this record, you know, feels like a natural extension of the records that came before it with kind of a few new influences swirled in. I have always been really, really impressed just by the cleverness of the way that she has managed over the course of her career
5:39 Stephen Thompson? to combine Gen Z singer songwriter, very Taylor Swift influenced pop with a lot of sounds of like 90s alt rock. And here she, she also manages to mix in a little bit of New Order, a little bit of The Smashing Pumpkins, a little bit of obviously The Cure, not only in the song that, you know, we heard that includes Robert Smith, but like name checking the song Just Like Heaven in the single Drop Dead.
6:21 Stephen Thompson? The second single on this album is called The Cure, even though it doesn't in any other way really reference the band. To me, I think she does such a great job bridging a generational gap between Gen Z and Gen X and kind of fusing them together in clever ways. For me, on this record, I think the strongest songs are the ones that have a little more energy. I think her ballads, I find a little lethargic and they don't really hook me in.
6:51 Speaker 04 I agree.
6:51 Stephen Thompson? I think maybe the way a couple of the ballads on her first two records do.
6:55 Speaker 04 Yeah, totally.
6:56 Speaker 05 Yeah, I've never really been a fan of Ballad Olivia. Like Driver's License for me was not the biggest hook into her career. I was really excited when she started experimenting with like punk rock. And like you're saying, Stephen, really calling back to these influences. We all know she's very into like the sort of Riot Girl pop punk aesthetics. And I was really thrilled to see her sort of pivot a little bit on this album away from those and further back into the eighties. Like I did feel like, I don't know, I didn't want her to get stuck in that sound. And I think there are moments on this album where she pulls it off really well. Like I liked the song You Plus Me Equals Less Than Three.
7:40 Speaker 05 I like that it sounded a little bit like The Cure and it sounded a little bit like Always or Diet Sig, like it had a little contemporary crispiness to it.
7:48 Stephen Thompson? Yumi Zuma.
7:51 Stephen Thompson? I don't know that she's listening to Yumi Zuma, but it seems like she could be.
7:54 Speaker 05 Yeah, you know, so there were moments, but I agree with Hazel where like, I feel like it was missing some of the bite and some of the sarcasm that I really enjoyed from her first two albums. Like some of the lyrics just fell a little flat, even though sonically I liked what she was going for in a couple of different places on this album.
8:11 Speaker 04 Yeah, I just feel like on the last album, you know, I really love Olivia in the mode of songs like Bad Idea, Right, or Get Him Back, or Ballad of a Homeschool Girl. Like this sense of anxiety or like inner conflict that I feel like she is actively working through on her songs. And I just, I didn't hear that as much on this album. I think because it has such a clear, you know, sort of container. Like she is singing about this one relationship and how it has transformed her, falling in love, how its demise. And I think that. You know, Sour and Guts just had such wider scope.
8:51 Speaker 04 And I loved hearing her sing about all these different aspects of her life, from like, social anxiety to, you know, body dysmorphia. And I think, you know, that really set her up to me in my mind as a very, you know, Stephen, to your point, like, a very like generational talent, like, someone who I just really wanted to hear their perspective on her personal life and what she's going through. And I didn't get as many of those moments on this album. I just think because it was, you know, very narrative driven, and she's leading us through this story.
9:24 Stephen Thompson? I mean, I'm just gonna keep steering us in the direction of things I like about this record.
9:28 Speaker 04 Go for it.
9:30 Stephen Thompson? Because I really am a fan. And, and one thing that I really appreciate, and I think Hazel, you and I have talked about the song "The Cure" as a real highlight
9:38 Speaker 04 Yes.
9:39 Stephen Thompson? of this record. And I think one thing that I think this song hints at, and kind of suggests of, you know, a future direction and expansion of her sound, is I think there are several tracks here, including "The Cure", that really get at a kind of grandeur, like, a sonic grandeur to match the emotional grandeur that she's trying to capture. And to me, that song has these, like, these big strings. It's definitely a song that evokes the, you know, kind of peak Smashing Pumpkins.
10:25 Stephen Thompson? That song's also getting at something, I think, really important, which is that, like, love is not the solution to all your problems.
10:31 Speaker 04 Yeah.
10:32 Stephen Thompson? I also just feel like that's a great message to put out into the world.
10:36 Speaker 04 Great message to put out into the world, and I think especially powerful for someone like her. I mean, most of this album, you know, the first half of this album is basically love songs.
10:46 Stephen Thompson? Right.
10:47 Speaker 04 Songs about being intensely head over heels in love. And that's actually kind of a new subject material for Olivia Rodrigo. I mean, she has sort of built this reputation with songs like "Drivers Like". Vampires, these really intense, you know, cutting songs aimed at exes. And I think The Cure is so interesting to me because, you know, she is someone who has spent most of her career writing about love and chasing it and, you know, searching for it. And on The Cure, it's like she has it and it's not a song that's, you know, a dig at an ex or something like that. It's not like a vampire. It's this moment of real self-realization
11:27 Speaker 04 and like discovery. And it sounds like I'm hearing her, you know, have this epiphany in real time. And I think that that is why The Cure for me is the strongest song on this album because it, I think it contains this sort of critical distance that I wanted Olivia Rodrigo to have about most of her relationship on this album. And it's just an incredible performance. Like she is singing on that song and it has a great music video. And so it's definitely the highlight for me.
12:00 Speaker 05 Yeah, I agree. I think her voice sounds incredible. I didn't love this song when it came out as a single, but I think in the context of the album, it like really clicked into being like kind of what Hazel's saying, like she's taking a little bit more of a step back grappling with conflict in a way that we don't really get to hear for a lot of the album. And yeah, her voice just sounds incredible. I like that she's not singing so much in a falsetto or in a like, she's just kind of, it's a little bit like balked down in a way that I really like. And I think matches the emotional tone of the song.
12:29 Stephen Thompson? And I think it's worth discussing kind of the context of this record where she had written a bunch of love songs, you know, because she was in a relationship and was very happy and was, has, you know, has spoken in interviews about kind of like this was my first kind of grown up relationship. And then over the course of the making of this record, that relationship ended. And so they suddenly kind of had to go back and like retrofit an air of sadness to it and to kind of create the track sequencing that we have going on here. I mean, this, this record is sort of subtitled where like the first half of the songs are subtitled, A Girl So In Love and the second half of the record. Record is subtitled You Seem Pretty Sad. And The Cure is the song that is the fulcrum.
13:14 Stephen Thompson? And I agree with Issa that my initial reaction to the song as a single was like, no, it's pretty good. But then hearing it in the context of the way that these songs fall, it kind of took on much, much, much more power. I want to stick up for the song, Stupid Song.
13:31 Speaker 05 I'm sorry, I went too hard. I'm a hate of it.
13:34 Speaker 04 I will say it's grown on me, but I want to, Stephen, I want to hear your like full throated defense.
13:38 Speaker 05 Yeah, go, go for it.
13:39 Stephen Thompson? I mean, first of all, I think it's the best song Taylor Swift has done since Midnight's.
13:43 Speaker 04 Exactly.
13:44 Stephen Thompson? I think it is massively better than anything on the last two Taylor Swift records. It is certainly very swift coded, including, I know it has that thing that I think Hazel is maybe more tired of than I am, which is that kind of pitter patter vocals.
13:59 Speaker 04 Yeah.
14:01 Stephen Thompson? But to me, part of what jumps out to me at the song is it's just very commercial. It feels like a colossal summer hit. Also, you know, we've spoken several times just about how strong a singer she is. I think her vocal command on this song is something that very, very few, even major pop singers could pull off.
14:23 Speaker 04 I don't, it's interesting you say that because I honestly felt like she was straining a bit on this song. But, but, but I, I sort of like those higher notes, but it, I, even though I don't love this song, I understood it to potentially be a choice because the way that the song plays out, her voice is building in intensity. She's like, I'm a heart of wax melting in the sun, like I'm this undone thread. And there's this kind of like build to it. But it's funny that you said that like she is, I don't know, I don't know if she was totally hitting all those notes for me in that song.
14:55 Stephen Thompson? So you kind of hinted at what I'm saying though, which is that like letting your voice go a little ragged is part of the toolkit of a powerhouse singer. Think about like Beyonce and like certain moments on the self titled record or Lemonade or whatever, where she lets her voice. Get a little raspy.
15:14 Speaker 04 Yeah, break a bit.
15:15 Stephen Thompson? Like, she could hit those notes, but by letting her voice go more ragged, she's letting emotion in. And I think the way that song has this like, this kind of careening quality to it, where like, her emotions are running ahead of her.
15:29 Speaker 04 Yeah.
15:30 Stephen Thompson? Her voice can't quite keep up. To me, I think that's part of its power. I don't want pop music to sound totally frictionless, right?
15:53 Speaker 04 I don't know. It's interesting, the story behind this album of them, you know, Olivia Rodrigo and her collaborator, Dan Nygros, having to go back and sort of tweak these early songs. And I think one of my biggest problems with this album is that I don't know if they successfully pull off that tweaking. I think that there are a lot of songs in the first half where I just, they, they read as very earnest to me, even though I can sense or tell that they are trying to put this, you know, darker level of sadness, or I think she described it as like creepy in an interview with the New York Times aura to them. And I think that the song on the first half of the
16:38 Speaker 04 album that I think really successfully does that tweaking to me is the song Maggots for Brains, which I really loved and is very totally like, you say, you mentioned all ways earlier. It's like a jangle pop song.
17:03 Speaker 04 That is the song where I heard it and I was like, okay, I see what you were trying to do. And I think you've really successfully done it on this song where you're essentially describing yourself as, you know, feeling like a zombie in your body. Like every time your boyfriend leaves the house, you're like beside yourself. So, yeah, it's, it's stupid song is, I think, one of the songs on this album that very successfully like completely telegraphs love to me.
17:27 Speaker 05 And that bridge. It's just like cruel summer. Like, I'm glad that you called it a Taylor Swift song, Stephen, because it came on and I was like, this is the thing that would make me, I would listen to this whole song just waiting for this buildup, but I just wish it didn't, I don't know, like the emotional drive of it isn't enough to get me to sit through the first half of the song until that part kicks in. But the drums are incredible.
17:48 Stephen Thompson? Oh, that bridge. It's interesting, because like when Driver's License came out, so many people were just like, oh, that bridge, that bridge, that bridge is the best ever. And to me, like, that bridge was what kind of tipped the song over into a little kind of silliness for me. It's like, oh, she's so young and she's swearing. It's very teenage, right? And like, that's part of what works about it. To me, this was like, this bridge felt like she's in command.
18:12 Speaker 05 Yeah, which is what I wanted to hear more of on the record. Like, I think when I heard of that bridge, I was like, oh, my God, when she's locked in, like, she is so incredible. And I think that the production worked really well. Like, I think that song takes a really good pivot in the second half. But it just, I don't know, I feel like overall, like, this album just had too many ballads for me. And I feel like it kind of, it bogs her down. I think it sort of keeps her in this kind of like adolescent sort of, Hazel, you've described this to me before, as like Claire's core music. And that is, I was unfortunately getting a little too much of that on this record.
18:46 Speaker 04 I always, and I don't know if it's selfish, I don't know if it's my personal taste getting in the way of my critical ability to evaluate the music. I always want Olivia to push back from her theater kid Disney Channel upbringings. And I, you said to your point, I think when she is in ballad mode, and I think Stupid Song does have a little bit of that, you know, theater kid flair, for sure, when she's in that ballad moment, I don't hear the growth. I think I hear growth when she is making more interesting choices. And also, there's a part of me that's like, you know, would these songs, if she had sat with some of these ballads more, would they have turned into a different kind
19:28 Speaker 04 of song? Like, would a song like Begged, you know, if she had sat on that a little bit longer, would it have stayed in its, you know, minimalist kind of at the piano origins?
19:38 Stephen Thompson? That's interesting, because I think Begged is maybe the strongest ballad here.
19:40 Speaker 04 Okay.
19:41 Stephen Thompson? In part, I think because of the sound, because of that gorgeous choral arrangement.
19:57 Stephen Thompson? I think that keeps it grounded in prettiness. The way a song like Honeybee, to me, is like floating away and it's like a little too cloying. Begged, I think, has a little more emotional heft.
20:10 Speaker 04 Yeah, it's interesting talking about these songs because I think because of the way that the album is packaged and the way that she has, you know, described it and sold it to listeners, is this like, you know, tight kind of cohesive narrative. I think it, it makes me listen to the songs, I think, a little more critically because they're in conversation with each other and I'm not a fan of Honeybee at all. I can't forget her for Honeybee. But it is so interesting to me that, you know, Stupid Song is this song about, you know, being unable to fully express your, you know, feelings in music because they're so strong. And then, then she has a line in Honeybee, which is the song that follows Stupid Song, where she also expresses the same idea.
20:55 Speaker 04 Like, she sings about being, you know, kind of unable to describe her feelings. So it's, it's moments like that where I just, you know, I wanted, I don't know, I felt like the songs kind of bled into each other a little bit for me, or I was listening to them differently as I would say, you know, Guts are sour.
21:13 Speaker 05 I agree. I think I was craving a little bit more mess and it all felt a little too tight and like, everything was a little bit too contained. I wanted her to go off the rails a little bit more. And I think the moments in which she does that, like maggots for brains, it really works. I think she's really good at sort of teetering over the edge but keeping the song together. And, I don't know, I think there were a lot of moments on this album where it was a little predictable and boring.
21:39 Stephen Thompson? Oh, oh, Isa.
21:40 Speaker 04 A single tear falls from Stephen's face.
21:43 Speaker 05 But you know what? I loved how, I, I really did like the collaboration with Robert Smith, which Hazel, I know you weren't the, the biggest fan of, even if she's been a little bit heavy-handed with references to The Cure on this album. I appreciate that choice. I think they sound really great together. I like the way that their voices meld. I don't know, I thought it was cute, even though there is sort of an underlying, like, lacking a little bit of dryness and bite and sarcasm that I wish was a little bit more present. But I liked hearing him on the record. I thought it was a really fun choice.
22:14 Stephen Thompson? Well, I think we can agree that this is a great record.
22:19 Stephen Thompson? I like it.
22:20 Speaker 04 That's the point of this podcast. Stephen has an opinion, invites guests on, and at the end of the day, we must agree with him. And we do.
22:28 Stephen Thompson? That is, that's exactly founders in tech, what this show is all about. All right, that brings us to the end of our show. Isabella Gomez Sarmiento, Hazel Sills, thanks so much for being here.
22:39 Speaker 04 Thank you.
22:40 Speaker 05 Thank you.
22:41 Stephen Thompson? This episode was produced by Liz Metzger and Mike Katzif and edited by our showrunner, Jessica Reedy. Hello, Kim provides our theme music. Thanks for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR. I'm Stephen Thompson, and we will see you all next time.
22:57 Stephen Thompson? Stay tuned for the following announcements and messages from our sponsors.
23:01 Speaker 03 This week on Up First, we're in the final days before the midterm elections. And this is one of the wonderful things about politics, one of the wonderful things about humanity. We have all this data, we have all this information, and nobody really knows what's gonna happen. We're gonna follow it day by day, through Election Day and beyond. And you can listen to Up First every morning on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts. Oh, Kevin, it feels good to be back. It sure does, Casey. And what a time. The world is talking about AI and what's going on in Silicon Valley. And we are here with a new show to tell you all about it. That's right, Kevin. On our new show, Machine Gods, twice a week, we'll be bringing you the biggest news in tech and bring you unmatched access to the real titans of this industry.
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