Short Stuff: The Guinness Widget

Guiness beer is famous for its smooth and creamy texture, thanks in part to nitrogen, and also a simplistically brilliant little device called the Guinness widget. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:04Josh Clark?

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• 0:39Josh Clark?

  Hey, and welcome to Short Stuff. I'm Josh and there's Chuck and we're talking short stuff today. We're talking widgets on short stuff, I should say. Widgets that were first introduced as a concept from a play, right Chuck?

• 0:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, there was the word, first of all, we need to thank our old buddy Brian Didsbury.

• 0:57Josh Clark?

  Oh, right.

• 0:59Speaker 02

  The boom operator on the Stuff You Should Know TV show.

• 1:02Josh Clark?

  So great.

• 1:03Speaker 02

  Who comes to our live shows, still a friend. He texts me all the time, trying to get me to play Red Dead Redemption with him online.

• 1:08Josh Clark?

  He texts me Simpsons quotes.

• 1:10Speaker 02

  Does he really?

• 1:11Josh Clark?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:12Speaker 02

  Oh, did he text you about this too?

• 1:14Josh Clark?

  No.

• 1:15Speaker 02

  Oh, okay. Yeah, he texted me a couple of days ago and he's like, hey, man, how about one on the Guinness widget? And I was like, done buddy.

• 1:21Josh Clark?

  It's a good idea for sure.

• 1:23Speaker 02

  It is. And thanks to Guinness.com, How Stuff Works, conservable, conversable economist, petroleum service company, where else? YouTube?

• 1:35Josh Clark?

  Yeah, that's pretty much it.

• 1:38Speaker 02

  Okay, anyway, widgets.

• 1:42Speaker 02

  Everybody thinks it's basically a spin off of the word gadget, which is probably true. We don't know the true etymology, but I believe it was in a play in 1924 where they specifically in the play talked about like, we're in the widget business and that may be like the first time that anyone had ever used it like that. But then Guinness came along and said, well, you know what? Everyone talks about widgets is just a thing you make, a nameless thing you make at any company. We're going to make a real thing and we're really going to call it a widget and get it patented as such.

• 2:13Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and they did. It's this thing that. Makes canned Guinness much more like Guinness from the tap, which is actually much more like Guinness from a cask, because Guinness is its own kind of thing, as a matter of fact. And I say we dig into how Guinness is Guinness.

• 2:32Speaker 02

  That's right. I think we should prep people that this simple, simple little short stuff was a cause of a lot of emails and consternation between us today, right?

• 2:43Josh Clark?

  Is it simple?

• 2:45Speaker 02

  I think so.

• 2:46Josh Clark?

  All right. Well, I think you should take the lead then.

• 2:48Speaker 02

  It's basically a ping pong ball.

• 2:50Josh Clark?

  Oh, yes. The widget is simple, right? So let's talk about what we're talking about. If you open a can of Guinness, and just the can, it's not in the bottle, there's a little plastic sphere with a hole in the bottom that you will hear rattling around the can. If you cut the can open, very gently set one aside, and then be very careful holding the other one up, because it's a sliced can, they're very dangerous. And look inside, you'll see this little plastic sphere. That is the Guinness widget.

• 3:19Speaker 02

  You can play ping pong with it even.

• 3:21Josh Clark?

  It's not that big, is it?

• 3:23Speaker 02

  No, it looks a little smaller.

• 3:25Josh Clark?

  But could you, though? Does it have bounce to it?

• 3:27Speaker 02

  Hmm, I doubt it, because it's not, it's not full of air. And it's heavier. I was just making a joke.

• 3:35Josh Clark?

  Okay, I guess. Well, I didn't know. I could see that being like a thing that the internet figured out.

• 3:39Speaker 02

  I bet they've done that in Ireland. And by the way, Guinness calls these officially within the Guinness Company, they call it a smoothifier.

• 3:46Josh Clark?

  Okay, so everybody else calls it a widget, then?

• 3:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:50Josh Clark?

  Okay, so they put this in there, and only God himself knows how they work.

• 4:01Speaker 02

  Well, let's talk a little bit about a guy named Michael Ash. In 1951, Michael Ash joined the Guinness Company. He was a mathematician, he was a master brewer. He was a big believer in science. And he was like, hey, there's all these beers that are made with carbon dioxide. And it's that CO2 that is dissolves in the beer that makes it fizzy when you, when you open it up. When the can is closed, the pressure inside is much higher than the pressure outside. So when you open that thing up, there's a pressure drop and the agitation of pouring it makes that CO2 come bubbling out. And that's where you get your foamy head on a beer.

• 4:38Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 4:38Speaker 02

  He was like, this cask Guinness is smooth and creamy and CO2 just doesn't do it. If we're going to try and put this stuff in pubs and eventually in cans.

• 4:48Josh Clark?

  No, no. So the, if you have a cask, the beer that's put into the cask, it ages in the cask. Like when you deliver it to a pub, it's still doing its thing aging. And once you tap the cask, you have three days to drink it. That's how like unpasteurized and new it is. But the thing is, is when you get the beer out of the cask, you have to actually pump it out. And that creates like a totally different pour and finish than if you're pouring it out of a keg. So because the world kind of transitioned from casks to kegs around the, the middle of the 20th century. Michael Asher was like, well, then what can we do to make Guinness more cask like,

• 5:31Josh Clark?

  or keep its cask like profile and look and taste and everything? And he figured out that adding nitrogen is what would do that.

• 5:39Speaker 02

  That's right. And you know what? I think that's a good little cliffhanger.

• 5:42Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 5:43Speaker 02

  So let's take a break and we'll talk about the, the magic inside the Guinness can and glass right after this.

• 6:08Josh Clark?

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• 8:32Speaker 02

  All right, so where we left off, Michael Ash had discovered that nitrogen, along with, it's not, it doesn't replace the CO2. It's a mixture of the carbon dioxide and nitrogen.

• 8:43Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 8:45Speaker 02

  But nitrogen isn't absorbed into the beer like carbon dioxide is. So it has the same pressure of just a regular beer, but it has a lot less CO2. And so it's not as fizzy, which is not what you want out of a Guinness anyway, because that nitrogen is making up a great deal of that pressure inside the can.

• 9:04Josh Clark?

  Yes, and even though it's harder for nitrogen to dissolve inside beer, CO2, it's very easy. Nitrogen will, some will dissolve, and it forms smaller bubbles and more stable bubbles. So when you pour this nitrogen-infused Guinness beer, the head will be foamier, much creamier than, say, like a CO2 lager head that eventually kind of settles down and looks like urine in a glass after a while, especially if you're talking about Coors Banquet beer. This is like a foamy head that, because the nitrogen bubbles are more stable, stays around way longer, too. So he figured out by adding nitrogen, you can basically replicate

• 9:49Josh Clark?

  the look and the feel and the taste of cask-poured Guinness, like it used to be.

• 9:54Speaker 02

  That's right. So the next step was like, how do I make this happen in a can? It seemed like an impossibility until a guy named John Lunn, L-U-N-N, a master distiller, created the widget. The patent, I believe Guinness eventually filed for the patent in 69 for an improved method of and means of dispensing carbonated liquids from containers. It began as Project Dynamite, but apparently there was a lot of, that was problematic for customs, because it said "Project Dynamite" on all the paperwork and stuff.

• 10:29Josh Clark?

  Are you serious?

• 10:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. So they changed it to Project Oak Tree.

• 10:36Josh Clark?

  They changed it to Project Dino Mike.

• 10:38Speaker 02

  Right. They changed it to Project Nuclear Waste. Now, Project Oak Tree, I think, was a reference to the original Project Acorn from Guinness. So they wanted to get these cans right. You can get Guinness in a bottle, but it's not the same beer at all. It's completely different beer.

• 10:56Josh Clark?

  So you like the canned version better, huh?

• 10:59Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. That's the pub version.

• 11:02Josh Clark?

  I might not be doing it right then, because I'm like, what is this crap? Like, I would rather just drink the Guinness out of a bottle any day of the week.

• 11:10Speaker 02

  Oh, I mean, do you like Guinness in a pub?

• 11:13Josh Clark?

  I don't know that I've ever actually had real Guinness in a pub.

• 11:17Speaker 02

  Oh, Josh.

• 11:18Josh Clark?

  Because it's supposed to be...

• 11:19Speaker 02

  I'm taking you to England next week.

• 11:22Josh Clark?

  Okay, that'd be awesome.

• 11:24Speaker 02

  You're like, really? That just surprises me.

• 11:27Josh Clark?

  I must not have poured it correctly, because it doesn't make any sense that they would even go to this trouble of putting a widget in it to make worse Guinness than it is in the bottle. So I just didn't do it right. That's my guess.

• 11:40Speaker 02

  Well, maybe you just don't understand the concept of Guinness. I mean, Guinness is supposed to go down like a milk and not a fizzy carbonated beverage. It's got, they call it the surge and settle. It pours in and you just see it gently falling to the bottom and you get this milky foam at the top.

• 11:57Josh Clark?

  The cascade.

• 11:59Speaker 02

  Yeah. And like, that's why I could always drink a lot of Guinness, because it didn't it didn't fill you up and make you super gassy and burpy.

• 12:06Josh Clark?

  Wow. So I've been doing the opposite, because drinking a single bottle of Guinness is like eating a whole loaf of bread to me.

• 12:13Speaker 02

  The bottle is completely different.

• 12:15Josh Clark?

  Wow, okay. So I gotta try this other version, because what you're talking about is basically the opposite of the Guinness I'm familiar with.

• 12:22Speaker 02

  Oh, wow. That is, that's funny.

• 12:26Josh Clark?

  Like, I really want to try it. Like, you've just blown my mind.

• 12:28Speaker 02

  Yeah. Oh, man, go out and get a four-pack and... Crack the can open and then just dump it in the glass as hard as you can. Just turn it upside down.

• 12:37Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 12:38Speaker 02

  And it won't overflow or anything. It'll get to the top and just stop and then start settling.

• 12:42Josh Clark?

  Well, there's this other thing they have now too, that I guess kind of takes the whole thing into a new level. It's called Nitro Surge.

• 12:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, I saw that.

• 12:52Josh Clark?

  You put it on top of a can and it does, it does the pouring like it would from a cask, as far as I understand, right there at home or, you know, in the parking lot of a convenience store.

• 13:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, I saw the Nitro Surge. I don't think they sell them here yet, but it's like a, I think it's like a mechanical device. Like, does it have a battery in it even? I'm not fully sure. I stopped looking into it.

• 13:17Josh Clark?

  It looks like it could.

• 13:18Speaker 02

  When I realized how much further it was taking me away from the widget. You know what I mean?

• 13:23Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah, I forgot we were talking about the widget.

• 13:26Speaker 02

  All right, let's get back to the widget.

• 13:27Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 13:27Speaker 02

  So the widget is a little plastic ball. And I think this is where we got hung up earlier. I don't know if you saw my most recent email. I think it's a matter of semantics because I kept saying that the, and Guinness on their website says it's a nitrogen-filled sphere. And you're like, it's not filled with nitrogen. I think it's just semantics because they don't literally fill this ball with nitrogen and then drop it in.

• 13:49Josh Clark?

  Okay, some people say they do.

• 13:51Speaker 02

  It is, because it has a hole in it. It's, you drop it in there and then fill the can with nitrogen. And then that ball fills up with nitrogen and beer.

• 14:01Josh Clark?

  Gotcha.

• 14:02Speaker 02

  And it stays in this tiny, it's basically a little mini turbo jet. So when you crack that beer, it's a little mini ball with higher pressure than the rest, than even what's inside the rest of the can.

• 14:16Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 14:16Speaker 02

  And so when you crack that beer and all that pressure changes, just like a regular beer, it comes shooting out of that little tiny hole in the plastic ball and provides this little extra boost of nitrogen, like a little beer jet, agitating everything to create even more bubbles.

• 14:32Josh Clark?

  Right, but the specific kind of nitrogen bottles that make Guinness Guinness, which are smaller and more stable, so you get that foamy creamy head and the cascade and all that. I get it.

• 14:43Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 14:44Josh Clark?

  Yeah. You did a great job.

• 14:45Speaker 02

  I think it was the semantical thing. When people say it's filled with nitrogen, it is, but as a virtue of the canning process.

• 14:51Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 14:52Speaker 02

  They don't like fill it up and go like, quick, throw it in there.

• 14:55Josh Clark?

  You have to hold it just right, put your thumb over the hole and then just throw it in and put the top of the can on really quick.

• 15:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's really ingenious, though. I mean, it's got this tiny little hole and imagine a little ball filled with like nitrogen infused beer being jetted out of this tiny little hole. As you're pouring, as you've opened and pouring this beer. It's so simple, it's ingenious and so ingenious that in 2004, they did a survey of almost 9,000 people. And they voted that the Guinness widget was a greater invention than the internet.

• 15:27Josh Clark?

  Right. And they're wrong, but I get the point for sure.

• 15:31Speaker 02

  I mean, it's something to put on your website.

• 15:33Josh Clark?

  I guess it depends which version of the internet you're talking about, you know?

• 15:37Speaker 02

  Let me ask you this. Have you ever had any like cream stouts?

• 15:42Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 15:43Speaker 02

  Like Boddington's or Murphy's or any of those?

• 15:45Josh Clark?

  Yes.

• 15:46Speaker 02

  Okay, but just not the Guinness.

• 15:48Josh Clark?

  Like I just associate a stout with like, like I just had dinner three hours ago. I can't drink a stout. Cause I'll, I'll throw up. I'll be too full.

• 15:58Speaker 02

  No, I think that's, uh, to my mind, it's a misnomer because stout sounds heavy because it's a big dark beer. But it's because it's not heavily carbonated like a lager. Like it doesn't fill you up like that. It doesn't make you gassy and burpy. It's like drinking a big thick milk, which may make you feel full, but it's not from like gassy full.

• 16:20Josh Clark?

  Okay, we're, we're getting tripped up by semantics again. It to me, yeah, the big milky thing. If I drank a big glass of milk after I ate, I would probably throw up. So it's the same thing in that sense, but no, it's not making me like, you know, like Coors Banquet beer would, where I'm like burpy or whatever.

• 16:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 16:38Josh Clark?

  It doesn't fill you up in that sense. It like literally fills you up.

• 16:42Speaker 02

  I got you.

• 16:43Josh Clark?

  Yes. So yeah, I think we're talking about the same thing. Well, now I'm worried that I have experienced Guinness like you're supposed to, and there's not like a whole world out there for me to try.

• 16:53Speaker 02

  Well, you may not like it.

• 16:55Josh Clark?

  I'll try it for sure.

• 16:57Speaker 02

  I haven't, I mean, I don't drink a lot of beer anymore, period. And I went through a big Guinness phase in the 90s, uh, starting in college and through New Jersey. And in fact, that brings me to another little factoid here. The Guinness uses a floating widget.

• 17:11Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 17:12Speaker 02

  Since 1997. And I was like, oh, that explains it. Cause in the 90s, we cut open the can because we were like, what is that in there? And it was fixed to the bottom of the can. So it was pre 97 and during COVID with supply issues, they fixed it to the bottom of the can then as well. But otherwise it's been a floating widget.

• 17:30Josh Clark?

  Wouldn't you have been freaked out when you cut the can open and you found the thing just fixed to the bottom of the can, looking back up at you and blink?

• 17:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, like a little Irish eyeball.

• 17:42Josh Clark?

  Uh, one other thing though, there's a, I noticed on this list, Old Speckled Hen uses widgets too, which I didn't know. That used to be one of my fave beers for a while.

• 17:51Speaker 02

  Yeah. And the Boddingtons, Murphys, Beamish, Tetleys.

• 17:56Speaker 02

  What else? Wexford, Bellhaven, and I'm sure we've missed some, but they all use the widget technology to deliver that, that pub, pub drawn flavor to your lips. Right there at home.

• 18:09Josh Clark?

  Yep. This episode of Short Stuff brought to you by Coors Banquet Beer.

• 18:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, I doubt that.

• 18:15Josh Clark?

  You got anything else?

• 18:17Speaker 02

  I got nothing else. I'm sure we got some stuff wrong. There's some beer aficionados that are like, not quite right, guys.

• 18:22Josh Clark?

  Whatever. I think you should say the thing.

• 18:24Speaker 02

  Okay. Short Stuff is out.

• 18:30Speaker 03

  Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts, iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.