#2482 - Andy Stumpf

Andy Stumpf is a retired Navy SEAL, entrepreneur, record-holding wingsuiter, and host of “Cleared Hot” and “Change Agents.” His new book, “Drownproof: Eight Life Lessons to Keep Your Head Above Water,” is available now.https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250379610/drownproofwww.youtube.com/@ClearedHotPodcastwww.youtube.com/@thisisironcladwww.andystumpf.com Perplexity: Download the app or ask Perplexity anything at https://pplx.ai/rogan. Get 30% off + 2 free gifts at https://ARMRA.com/rogan This video is sponsored by BetterHelp. Visit https://BetterHelp.com/JRE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  The Joe Rogan Experience.

• 0:05Joe Rogan?

  Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

• 0:12Speaker 02

  Being a pacifist is the way. Avoid violence at all costs, you know what I mean, Joe?

• 0:15Joe Rogan?

  Allegedly. Look at you, dog, you're a fucking author.

• 0:18Speaker 02

  Let's take it easy, I'm not an author until tomorrow.

• 0:21Joe Rogan?

  No, you're an author once it's written. I can read it, which makes you an author. I have a book in my hand, which makes you an author.

• 0:29Speaker 02

  I tell you what, man, you had more of a hand in that book than you would think.

• 0:33Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 0:34Speaker 02

  Um, every, you know, before we started, I had you sign one of the copies, because I'm gonna keep it for myself, and the people's names who associated themselves with that, who took a chance on me and supporting me, they have just as much as hands as the monkey who may or may not have been sitting in front of the computer, writing out the words, very slowly.

• 0:53Joe Rogan?

  Isn't that the case with everything in life, though? I mean, it's really who you know, and like, the people that you associate with, and what you learn from them, and their examples, with everything. And then, there's no individuals that are responsible entirely for their own life.

• 1:09Speaker 02

  There are individuals, though, that would tell you that they are.

• 1:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but those are the people that I don't hang out with.

• 1:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, I can't, I can't suffer being in the presence of somebody who thinks that they had every idea, and every right decision was theirs, because I look at my own life, one, I can't compete with that, because my life is defined by its mistakes and idiotic things I've done, uh, but two, I just, I don't get it. I'm a, I'm a product of the people who I was raised by, the people I was around, the people still in my life, I mean...

• 1:37Joe Rogan?

  Hundred percent. We all are. If you don't think that, you're delusional. But, if, you cannot have an exceptional person that's surrounded by dipshits. They, they just won't, eventually, they'll give in to dipshittery. It's contagious. Negative, negative people...

• 1:55Speaker 02

  You really got me thinking, though, if that is possible. I'm trying to think of an example.

• 1:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I probably shouldn't have said it's impossible. It could be possible, but it's very highly unlikely, and also, they didn't achieve their full potential, if that's the case. They would have been even better, if they had been surrounded by exceptional people.

• 2:10Speaker 02

  Improbable, at best.

• 2:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, at best.

• 2:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:13Joe Rogan?

  I, I've never seen an example of it, ma, again, maybe one exists, that I don't know about, but as far as all the exceptional people that I know, they all associate with other exceptional people.

• 2:23Speaker 02

  You know quite a few exceptional people. You have an interesting job that has a Venn diagram that is incredibly unique in the people you've been able to sit down with.

• 2:31Joe Rogan?

  It's pretty fucking weird.

• 2:33Speaker 02

  Did you ever think?

• 2:34Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 2:34Speaker 02

  First off, by the way, I try to point as many people as possible to JRE number one, because I think it's a masterpiece.

• 2:39Joe Rogan?

  It's a good thing to see.

• 2:41Speaker 02

  Oh, my God.

• 2:41Joe Rogan?

  Because it's terrible.

• 2:42Speaker 02

  I'm like, wait for the snowflakes, and they go, what the fuck are you talking about? They're like, what? I'm like, just wait, it's amazing. I mean, could you have ever thought, though, that JRE one, where I feel like that was you on a laptop video?

• 2:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it was, yeah, 100%, yeah.

• 2:58Speaker 02

  And to where you are now, where you were like, sitting down and talking to some of the most influential people on the face of planet Earth?

• 3:04Joe Rogan?

  No. I mean, I think if I planned it out like that, it would have never worked, you know?

• 3:08Speaker 02

  You would have tried too hard, maybe?

• 3:10Joe Rogan?

  I don't know what I would have done. I mean, I probably would have been more careful, which would have made it less fun, which would have made it less attractive. You know, I think the two things that I've done that are really important is not pay attention to much online talk about me, and just follow my interests and my instincts. Like, I booked the whole thing entirely on instinct. I look at like, the, all the different suggestions that come in, and all the different requests to be on the show, and I go, no, maybe, huh, why's that? Huh?

• 3:45Speaker 02

  Purely on self-interest?

• 3:46Joe Rogan?

  100%.

• 3:47Speaker 02

  I think that's the way. What do you get per day, like ballpark, people trying to get on your show?

• 3:53Joe Rogan?

  I don't even know, because I have a really good guy that filters out a lot of them.

• 3:56Speaker 02

  I bet it's gotta be in the hundreds.

• 3:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I'm sure, yeah. But he filters out a lot of them, and it gets down to, you know, like, what I, he knows me really well, and so he, you know, sends me, like, some physicist is working on some new thing, some quantum thing, this, that, the other thing, like, there's a new person that's doing this, and there's new research on that, and then there's, you know, that kind of shit.

• 4:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think the difference between you and me is, I appreciate the fact you can hold a conversation with those people. I would be sitting there listening to them with like, the scroll wheel on the back, like... Do you have words that are smaller that could explain that?

• 4:35Joe Rogan?

  Well, some of them I have to really prepare for. Like, you know, if I have like a Brian Cox on or something like that, I'll really prepare. You know, or, you know, there's been a few people over the, over time where I knew they were coming on like three months out. So I've, I've read a couple of their books. I watched a few of their lectures. I wa, you know.

• 4:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:54Joe Rogan?

  But then there's other ones like I could just hang out, hang out with them. You know, like Evan, Evan Haver comes on, we just shoot the shit.

• 5:00Speaker 02

  Angry, small, French painter. Fucking green berets.

• 5:07Joe Rogan?

  He's the best. I love that dude.

• 5:08Speaker 02

  I was with him at the Montana grand opening, Montana Knife Company grand opening of their new HQ. It's, we've been on the road a bit. I think like two days ago. He's one of my favorite people. Absolutely. He's so we, but he's one of my favorite people.

• 5:20Joe Rogan?

  He's an awesome human.

• 5:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:22Joe Rogan?

  A very unusual human being. And, you know, he's one of the ones that's suffering from that stupid fucking alpha gal bite. He's got that tick. He got bit by that tick that makes you allergic to red meat.

• 5:33Speaker 02

  Is it all red meat or processed red meat?

• 5:35Joe Rogan?

  It's animal meat. It's mammal meat. That's the thing. You could eat some fish. Some people can eat fish. Some people can eat chicken. He's broken it down to only eating eggs right now. That's how bad it is. He's getting all of his protein from eggs, which is a great source of protein, no doubt, but, um.

• 5:53Speaker 02

  That's exhaustingly boring, though.

• 5:55Joe Rogan?

  I just go to dinner with him. It's crazy. The guy has to eat vegetables and eggs. That's all he can eat.

• 6:00Speaker 02

  God, I would just mock him incessantly to his face.

• 6:02Joe Rogan?

  I know you would.

• 6:06Speaker 02

  Do you guys have a larger salad? Yeah. I mean, I would mock him that way because I care for him so deeply. He is truly like one of my closest friends. He is, he's an awesome dude.

• 6:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And so he's been battling this for a couple of years now. So he, he got clear of it and he was eating meat again and he was fine and he thought it was over. And then it came back. He came back with a vengeance. And it's, it's a weird fucking disease because I've. Let's find out, put this into perplexity. What, uh, what is the most, what is, as far as like the documented cases of this alpha-gal syndrome? When did it first, uh, start occurring in the United States? Cause I had never even heard about it until Evan. When he told me about it, I was like, what? You got allergic to red meat?

• 6:55Speaker 02

  And how can a tick bite cause that? I mean, Lyme disease is another one. Like, well, how does it do that? A bite from a tick just jacks up the human body?

• 7:02Joe Rogan?

  Well, apparently Lyme disease has existed. There's been forms of Lyme disease throughout history. But there's real solid evidence that Lyme disease, which is named Lyme disease because of Lyme, Connecticut, is related to Plum Island, where they were doing bioweapons research on ticks.

• 7:21Speaker 02

  It's historically good idea.

• 7:22Joe Rogan?

  And it's right there. It's like literally right there. And then the prevalence of Lyme disease on the East Coast is fucking outrageous. It's outrageous how many ticks carry this fucking thing. I know so many people that have Lyme disease.

• 7:36Speaker 02

  And that's a lifelong one too, right? Like, you're not getting off that train? You can manage the system?

• 7:40Joe Rogan?

  You can cure it. You can cure it. People have cured it. And they've particularly cured it if they get on antibiotics very quickly. So, um, one of the weird things about Lyme disease is that the bite has like a little target around it. It's weird. It's like, it almost looks like a bullseye because the infection, as it grows, there's a red circle around the bite. And if that's, but that goes away within a few days. But if that's recognized, you bring it to a doctor, they get you on antibiotics, you can actually get off of it. Depending on the severity of your case, obviously. So here it is. Alpha-gal syndrome appeared to have first emerged in the US in the late 1980s, but was not recognized as a distinct tick-related meat allergy until the early 2000s.

• 8:20Joe Rogan?

  So in 89, clinicians in Georgia, uh, collected about 10 cases of delayed allergic reactions to mammalian meat. Mammalian? Mammalian. Mammalian meat and linked them to prior tick bites. These observations were not widely recognized at the time. Allergy was first formally identified as originating from tick bites in the US by Thomas Platts Mills in the early 2000s. Reports note this discovery process beginning around 2002 and becoming clear by 2007.

• 8:50Joe Rogan?

  So the, in the medical literature is first described in 2009 when published work documented patients with delayed reactions to red meat and linked them to I G E against Alpha Gal. Interesting. So it seems like it's in the eighties, but really started being recognized in the 2000s.

• 9:11Speaker 02

  Explain, I mean, he has definitely, he's slender down.

• 9:15Joe Rogan?

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• 10:59Joe Rogan?

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• 11:41Joe Rogan?

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• 12:06Speaker 02

  I'm pretty sure he was wearing his wife's pants at the MKC event. They were very tight, very tight, unacceptably tight. But that can be a benefit. If you're the same size as your wife and you have just one wardrobe, I'm here for it.

• 12:17Joe Rogan?

  That's nice. Yeah.

• 12:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's efficiency.

• 12:19Joe Rogan?

  Some of their shoes, though, are really hard to walk around in.

• 12:21Speaker 02

  I mean, you gotta commit.

• 12:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I would imagine.

• 12:24Speaker 02

  I mean, yeah.

• 12:25Joe Rogan?

  When I go places with my wife and I'm like, what are you doing? You can't walk. This is a crazy thing you're doing.

• 12:31Speaker 02

  It's not for walking.

• 12:32Joe Rogan?

  For fashion.

• 12:32Speaker 02

  It's for what my daughter would call the steez, which I think means style.

• 12:36Joe Rogan?

  I didn't know that.

• 12:37Speaker 02

  I didn't know. I'm actually not sure that I'm using it correctly. She just teaches me words and I throw them out at random times.

• 12:42Joe Rogan?

  I learn a lot.

• 12:43Speaker 02

  But I think steez means style, I think.

• 12:45Joe Rogan?

  Mmm.

• 12:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:45Joe Rogan?

  Steez, okay. Did you know about that one, Jamie? The steez?

• 12:51Joe Rogan?

  I have never heard it until this moment. There you go. At least I don't believe so. The steez.

• 12:55Speaker 02

  Feel free to use it however you want to.

• 12:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah chicks wear stuff that they're so vulnerable in. You can only take steps that are less than 24 inches wide. Cause you've got a dress that like clinging to your knees, which is very odd. Like it's like tight all around here. So you've got these like short steps. And then the bottoms of your shoes are slippery. And then your heels are elevated and then the heel has a point to it.

• 13:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:20Joe Rogan?

  So it gets stuck in the grass.

• 13:21Speaker 02

  Just waiting to snap at the most inopportune moment.

• 13:24Joe Rogan?

  It's the dumbest shit of all time and they're fucking crazy expensive. The whole thing makes no sense. Like what are they doing?

• 13:30Speaker 02

  They're trying to look good for us, Joe.

• 13:31Joe Rogan?

  But they look good already. That's what they don't understand. I think they're looking good for themselves. I think they look good without that shit.

• 13:38Speaker 02

  I would agree.

• 13:39Joe Rogan?

  Uh, yeah. A hot chick in flip flops, no one's going, God, I wish she was wearing some shoes that you couldn't walk around in.

• 13:44Speaker 02

  She might even be more approachable if she wasn't flip flops because you'd be like, she's like maybe more down to earth.

• 13:51Joe Rogan?

  Maybe that's what they're going for. They're going for not approachable. Trying to keep the fucking.

• 13:56Speaker 02

  Doesn't that defeat the overall end like long end around purpose?

• 13:59Joe Rogan?

  No, you're trying to get dudes that are, you know, willing to take a chance. You know?

• 14:06Speaker 02

  On what?

• 14:07Joe Rogan?

  On a gal that's unapproachable. Like you have enough confidence in yourself that you'll step up to an unapproachable gal.

• 14:14Speaker 02

  Nope, not me. Hard pass.

• 14:17Speaker 02

  Hard pass.

• 14:18Joe Rogan?

  Too much work.

• 14:19Speaker 02

  I'm willing to do some things that people think are odd, but yeah, I'm hard. That's a hard pass.

• 14:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I know. But there's also it's like, you're not, you're in line. There's a lot of other dudes approaching that too.

• 14:29Speaker 02

  Probably.

• 14:29Joe Rogan?

  So now then it's like you're in an audition process.

• 14:33Speaker 02

  Fuck all of that.

• 14:34Joe Rogan?

  Boring.

• 14:36Speaker 02

  Life is way too short for all that.

• 14:37Joe Rogan?

  It's great for people who don't have anything else to do, if that's all you want to do.

• 14:43Speaker 02

  Nope.

• 14:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I'm not interested in that either.

• 14:45Speaker 02

  Same. There's way too much other exciting shit out there.

• 14:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. But yeah, if you and your wife wore all the same clothes, it would be an issue.

• 14:52Speaker 02

  A good issue or bad? I mean, if you're limited on time, we're gonna, we're gonna go on a trip, let's just bring a pair of pants, we'll switch.

• 14:59Joe Rogan?

  I wonder what people did in the caveman days?

• 15:01Speaker 02

  I don't think they were wearing much.

• 15:03Joe Rogan?

  Right. But you're wearing like some kind of animal skins. It's basically a one size fits all.

• 15:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:09Joe Rogan?

  Tarp.

• 15:10Speaker 02

  Loin cloth?

• 15:11Joe Rogan?

  Throw over yourself. Yeah. Loin cloth to keep your dick from getting caught in thorns. And then a tarp.

• 15:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 15:19Speaker 02

  Cutting edge at the time.

• 15:20Joe Rogan?

  I was reading this story about these guys that were like exceptional marathon runners in, uh, in Africa. And one of the things that they did is this insane fucking rites of passage where they would circumcise them with this. I don't remember the process, but it was a particularly brutal process. They sliced the tip of their dick off. And then they would make them literally crawl through thorns.

• 15:45Speaker 02

  What?

• 15:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. The whole idea is just like make you as hard as humanly possible. And these guys, they were pointing to this one tribe as developing exceptional marathon runners. Because these guys had such high pain tolerance and such like willingness to go through horrific ordeals. What is it? There it is. Initiation. Okay. Um, so it says he had to crawl mostly naked through a tunnel of African stinging nettles. Then he was beaten on the bony parts of his ankle, then his knuckles were squeezed together. And then the formic acid from the stinging nettle was wiped onto his genitals. But that was all just a warm up.

• 16:26Joe Rogan?

  Early one morning, he was circumcised with a sharp stick. That's what it is. A stick. Stick. During this whole process, the crawling, the beatings and the cuttings, try to say that guy's name.

• 16:37Speaker 02

  No.

• 16:38Joe Rogan?

  Kip go, Kip go guy?

• 16:41Speaker 02

  Kip gogi?

• 16:41Joe Rogan?

  Kip go guy, kip gogi, was obliged, it sounds like a Korean dish, was obliged to be absolutely stoical, unflinching. He could not make a sound. Indeed, in some of the versions of the ceremony, mud is caked on the face and then mud is allowed to dry. A crack appears in the mud. Your cheek may twitch, your forehead may crimple, crinkle. You get labeled a kebitet, a coward. You get, you label a coward if your cheek crinkles.

• 17:12Joe Rogan?

  And stigmatized by the whole community. Manners say that this is enormous social pressure placed on your ability to endure pain. And is actually great training for a sport like running. Where pushing through pain is so fundamental to success. Circumcision, he says, teaches kids to withstand pressure and tolerate pain. Manners says he thinks this distinct advantage conferred on athletic kids who grew up in a pain embracing society. As opposed to western pain avoiding one. Interesting. Yeah, this is. Where is this at? In Kenya? Is it Kenyan tribe? Yeah.

• 17:48Speaker 02

  I mean, I'm gonna be honest with you, Joe. If that's what they did to your people, I would run pretty goddamn fast too. Cause I would wanna get the hell out of there.

• 17:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, the thing is that, but I just think, you know, you're joking, obviously, but. Imagine if that's the norm. If that's your baseline, you're like accustomed to that. That's the worst thing that you go through and you have to do a completely stoic.

• 18:11Speaker 02

  At a young age.

• 18:12Joe Rogan?

  At a young age. You would develop some insane tolerance to discomfort, which.

• 18:17Speaker 02

  I don't know if one time is enough, though. I mean, like what they're describing is horrendous, but true tolerance and resilience and ability to work through that stuff. I don't think it's a singular event.

• 18:25Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 18:26Speaker 02

  Not that marathon running is an easy endeavor by any stretch. So they're continuing to do that. I mean, I get what they're doing, that rite of passage, but holy hell, I mean.

• 18:35Joe Rogan?

  Mm hmm.

• 18:36Speaker 02

  That's pretty gnarly.

• 18:37Joe Rogan?

  That's a thing that you you will see from ex-fighters and even ex-military guys. Like what they endured when they were young was so brutal that as they get older, they avoid any discomfort at all. They get fat and they just wanna drink and be lazy. And you're like, how did you go from being that fucking beast to this slob? And, you know, they still, in their mind, they're still a beast. You know, because I did this and I was a world champion and like, like a big fucking belly.

• 19:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, they can't see their dick when they're naked anymore.

• 19:07Joe Rogan?

  Weird.

• 19:08Speaker 02

  Uh, it's. I don't have any stats on how common that is.

• 19:12Joe Rogan?

  It's because they stopped doing it.

• 19:14Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 19:14Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 19:15Speaker 02

  I mean laziness affects everybody, right? Everybody thinks that you come from the special operations world and you're defined by discipline for the rest of your life. No, you're still a human being at the end of the day, behind the curtain. And, you know, gravity wants to keep guys like that on the couch just as much as everybody else.

• 19:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 19:29Speaker 02

  But I think you realize the utility of not allowing that to happen.

• 19:32Joe Rogan?

  Some people do.

• 19:33Speaker 02

  Some people do. I mean, that's true of every occupation in life.

• 19:36Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 19:36Speaker 02

  You know?

• 19:37Joe Rogan?

  Yep, yep.

• 19:37Speaker 02

  Maybe it's a little bit more uncommon for people to see those that came from that, one of those occupations, but yeah, they're out there.

• 19:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I think that's probably in everything, in the medical world, I'm sure. There's guys that like really paid attention in college and then they're kind of half-assing it as doctors.

• 19:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure.

• 19:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's like the difficulty of the grind. Sometimes you get through it and then you just go, I don't want to ever fucking do that again. Like I know guys who were former Navy SEALs will not get in a fucking ice bath.

• 20:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm one of those. Hi, nice to meet you. Why would I consensually do that? No, no. And I also wish that they could make a sauna that was just room temperature, but had all the health benefits.

• 20:20Joe Rogan?

  See, sauna doesn't bother me at all.

• 20:22Speaker 02

  I can tolerate that one way more than exceptionally cold water, which it's, I understand the health benefit. I'm willing to pass on that particular health benefit to have, it's emotional for me. I just don't want to do that anymore.

• 20:33Joe Rogan?

  I get it.

• 20:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:34Joe Rogan?

  I get it. But when I get to the cold plunge, there's a, the bitch in me is so loud. But when I get to the sauna, there's no bitch. It's like, just get in. It's like, I know it's gonna suck about 20 minutes in, it'll suck for the last five minutes, it's really gonna suck. But the first 10 is easy.

• 20:52Speaker 02

  I just high five my inner bitch at the cold plunge and turn around.

• 20:57Speaker 02

  Like, why don't you take a laugh in that thing? I'm done with it.

• 21:00Joe Rogan?

  I almost don't do it every day. Every day, I almost don't do it.

• 21:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's harder emotionally than it is physically and, uh...

• 21:07Joe Rogan?

  It's weird because after a minute, it's not that bad. After one minute, it's like you just kind of, you develop like sort of a relaxation and you're cool.

• 21:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:16Joe Rogan?

  It's fine, especially if you do it a lot. But the first 10, 15 seconds are just like, what am I doing? You just wanna get out. You just wanna quit. Like, get me the fuck out of this 34-degree water with ice up to my neck. Fuck this. This is so stupid. I don't have to do the-

• 21:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, you feel like you're having a heart attack.

• 21:36Joe Rogan?

  But then you just chill. And then when you get out, you're like, ah, you feel so good. It's so worth it.

• 21:43Speaker 02

  Or don't do it. Just leave it empty.

• 21:47Speaker 02

  Use it to store tennis balls or something other than ice cold water.

• 21:50Joe Rogan?

  This episode is brought to you by Armra. Every week, there's some new wellness hack that people swear by. And after a while, you start thinking, why do we think we can just outsmart our bodies? That's why Armra colostrum caught my attention. It's something the body already recognizes, and it has hundreds of these specialized nutrients for gut stuff, immunity, metabolism, et cetera. I first noticed it working around training, especially workout recovery. Most of it falls off, but I am still taking this. If you wanna try, Armra is offering my listeners 30% off plus two free gifts. Go to armra.com/rogan. Apparently, there's real data that it's harder for women. It's harder for women to tolerate extreme cold weather.

• 22:34Joe Rogan?

  Cold temperatures in water, apparently.

• 22:36Speaker 02

  Interesting.

• 22:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they even recommend, like, women's cold plunges be slightly warmer than men's.

• 22:43Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 22:43Joe Rogan?

  You know. I don't know.

• 22:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, I wonder what that would be.

• 22:48Joe Rogan?

  I don't know, something about their physiology, that it might actually be detrimental to do 34 degrees. That, see if you can find any data on that. You know who's a great, what's her name? Suzanne Soberg. She's the one who created the Soberg Principle. She's one Huberman cites all the time.

• 23:05Joe Rogan?

  But I think it is something to do, maybe it's less muscle mass. You know, your body has a more difficult time heating itself up and, you know, creating a thermal barrier.

• 23:17Speaker 02

  Huberman is an example of a guy that I deeply respect, but struggle to understand what he's saying.

• 23:22Joe Rogan?

  Here it is. Uh, is this Suzanne's? Did you put this in perplexity? Our wonderful AI sponsor, perplexity. Specific considerations for women. Women tend to vasoconstrict faster and have larger drops in core temperature. Uh huh. Especially those in, I don't know what that is, luteal phase.

• 23:41Speaker 02

  It's, yeah, their cycle.

• 23:43Joe Rogan?

  The cycle. Oh. Uh, when progesterone is higher, so extreme cold can be more stressful. Very cold plunges near ice, thirty-five to forty-five degrees can cause big symptomatic, sympathetic and cortisol spikes that may disrupt menstrual regularity and thyroid function if overused. Oh, interesting. Animal and limited human data suggests cold can influence reproductive hormones and cycles. Women with heavy cramps, endo- endometriosis, fibroids, and/or on HRT contraception should be cautious and talk with a clinician first. Good luck finding a fucking clinician that understands cold plunges, though.

• 24:25Speaker 02

  And there's a picture of me in the lower right.

• 24:29Speaker 02

  It's probably what I look like when I get my toe in. I just don't like it, man.

• 24:32Joe Rogan?

  Don't do it. You don't have to.

• 24:32Speaker 02

  Hydrophobic, I think, is the correct term.

• 24:34Joe Rogan?

  You suffer enough. You suffer enough. Um, so this book, the title is drown proof. And you were saying before we got started, um, how many Navy SEALs wind up drowning? And, uh, that it's actually kind of shocking.

• 24:50Speaker 02

  It would be for a community that is supposed to have their roots in a maritime environment. I mean, the SEAL community draws its origins from the UDTs and the Scouts and Raiders. And honestly, up until nine eleven, it was one foot in the water and one foot on land. Like every operation would start in the water and then you could go onto the land, but you'd probably go back into the water. And almost all the training we did nine eleven was based around water. Um, and I think, let's see, Jamie, you could look this up. Uh, two SEALs recently drowned on a ship boarding, uh, real world ship boarding. Uh, one guy, it seems like in the climb peeled off the ladder and went into the water and somebody saw him and went in with him because of the concept of being a swim buddy, never to be seen again.

• 25:34Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 25:34Speaker 02

  Yeah. Um, and they-

• 25:35Joe Rogan?

  Do they know what, what happened to them? Like how?

• 25:38Speaker 02

  I mean, it's, uh, yeah, twenty twenty-four in the Arabian Sea.

• 25:43Joe Rogan?

  Oh, so he fell off a ship?

• 25:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, so they were approaching a vessel. I mean, there's a couple of ways that you can get on a boat. You can come from a boat and you can climb up, or you can go from a helicopter and fast rope down, or they could land, depending on how big the boat is. So they were coming up alongside, it's called an underway, or VBSS, visit, board, search and seizure is the technical military term for it. And on the climb up the ladder, the guy peeled off, fell off the ladder. And another one went in with him as his swim buddy. If they immediately, and there was, and it maybe still is an ongoing investigation, from my understanding, they saw their head maybe one time up and then they were gone. Their bodies were never recovered. So that would seem to be that they were wearing negatively buoyant equipment.

• 26:26Speaker 02

  So they were drug down and they probably were not able to activate their life jackets in time, which is super unfortunate. But the water doesn't give a shit who you are and how much of a badass you are. I think it's one of the most gnarly environments on earth.

• 26:40Joe Rogan?

  It really is. Every time I go in the ocean and I swim in the ocean, there's this feeling like, I think I can make it to shore, but I might not be able to. Like if you jump off of a boat and you've got like a couple of hundred yards to shore.

• 26:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:56Joe Rogan?

  As you start swimming, you start swimming like, I'm fine, I'm fine. Oh, boy, my heart is going pretty fast here. I'm breathing pretty heavy. That's a long way. I'm moving very slowly.

• 27:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:09Joe Rogan?

  Like, what if I can't do this?

• 27:11Speaker 02

  These are real positive thoughts to have mid swim here, Joe.

• 27:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, not good, not good. Yeah. It's only happened to me a few times, but you know, my friend Greg actually had to save a woman. He was on vacation. He saw a woman getting caught in the tide and she was getting pulled out.

• 27:25Speaker 02

  Oh, like a rip tide?

• 27:26Joe Rogan?

  Uh huh.

• 27:27Speaker 02

  They never, those things will pull people out, never to be seen again.

• 27:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 27:31Speaker 02

  People don't, so I live up in northwestern Montana and a lot of the, Flathead Lake, the largest freshwater lake west of the Mississippi is right where I live. And Glacier National Park, tons of snowfall, and so it's glacially fed rivers that feed into Flathead National Forest, or not in Flathead National Forest, the Flathead Lake. And boating is a huge summertime activity and it people travel from all over the world to come to Montana to see GNP Glacier National Park and every year people are drowning in these rivers and I don't know it's dangerous but it can be avoided but it seems as if they just do not have respect for even medium moving water they have no no exposure to it they're

• 28:13Speaker 02

  not used to be any to being in that water and they don't look at it and realize like that'll kill me so incredibly fast and every year people are going into that thing and dying every year.

• 28:22Joe Rogan?

  Well, it makes sense also that it's so fucking cold that water is you got glacier streams. Yeah, it's like Remy rescued a lady from that. You know Remy Maury? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, Remy actually saw a boat that had capsized and saw like gear floating by and saw a woman that was struggling and I believe her partner died. No, I'm sure her partner died and he jumped in freezing cold river and rescued her and he was like there's a bunch of moments during there was like I am not going to make it. I'm gonna die trying to save this lady.

• 28:56Speaker 02

  Which happens when people get close to that point you they're going to in your best attempt to save them they will try to use you as a life raft and climb all over you and the next thing you know two people are gone instead of one. Yeah, the water, the water will eat your lunch, man. It's it's wild but you think we spend so much time training in the water that it wouldn't happen. There's I mean, there's diving accidents. There is there are deaths in training.

• 29:20Joe Rogan?

  How often does that occur deaths in training?

• 29:23Speaker 02

  Oh, probably about every five years and it sucks and what I'm about to say people won't understand, but I also think it's essential. I don't want it to happen, but I think it probably is essential that it does every once in a while.

• 29:40Joe Rogan?

  Because the training has to be so difficult that you get to the brink.

• 29:43Speaker 02

  You have to train people for the job that they're going to be asked to do and the training. Standards need to be a directly downstream reflection of what the career is going to be. And I don't have the vocabulary to describe how bad I feel for the families and I'm not trying to minimize anybody's death, but you will lose more people in the real world execution of the job if you don't make training that difficult than you will by making it that dangerous, knowing that it's going to be that dangerous and that people will die, that will have a positive impact on people surviving the actual job itself.

• 30:19Joe Rogan?

  That completely makes sense. It's just the realities of life.

• 30:24Speaker 02

  Yeah. Some jobs are very unique and some jobs have very unique requirements and you have to train for that. Or it's gonna either come for you on the front end of that or the tail end of that. That's the balance of which one of those are you gonna focus on?

• 30:36Joe Rogan?

  Which is why the lowering of standards is so fucking dangerous. And when it's talked about, like the lowering of standards to make it fair for some applicants, like there's no fair in that job.

• 30:50Speaker 02

  I've never seen a bullet change trajectory because it noticed what you had between your legs and wanted to go be more fair and equitable to somebody else.

• 30:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 30:59Speaker 02

  It doesn't matter in those moments.

• 31:01Joe Rogan?

  Nor does the ocean give a fuck.

• 31:03Speaker 02

  No.

• 31:04Joe Rogan?

  Period.

• 31:05Speaker 02

  No, I don't believe it does.

• 31:08Joe Rogan?

  But it's so weird when we try to apply these workplace equity considerations to something that's is... Like, I can't think of a job that requires more of you than war. Like, there is, this is literal life or death and taking life. There's no, there's no job that requires more of you. And so you would just automatically assume the standards, especially for special operations guys, have to be the most stringent possible. You have to weed out all the bitches. Like, you can't have any bitch in you at all. There's gotta be none. No quit, no nothing. And that's, there's only one way to do that. It has to, you have to make a bunch of people quit.

• 31:51Speaker 02

  A lot of the times, the people who are bottom lining the policy changes don't have a direct impact in the training pipeline themselves or the execution of the job.

• 31:58Joe Rogan?

  Which is crazy.

• 31:58Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, the military is a bureaucratic system. Even in the special operations world, even at like the JSOC level. People would be, it never, it never really makes the movie, the amount of paperwork that you end up doing. Like you go on a trip and you have to collect your receipts and do your travel claim and all this other BS. It's all just shit blowing up and you know, you throw a grenade and it's a fireball the size of a 55 gallon drum of gasoline. Yeah, and then there's two days sitting in front of a computer, typing out all of your administrative stuff because of all the bureaucratic restraints that are still involved in all of that.

• 32:28Joe Rogan?

  That doesn't seem smart.

• 32:30Speaker 02

  Uh, it's just the way the military system works.

• 32:32Joe Rogan?

  Now, is that to somehow or another mitigate potential actions that should not have been done because you have to be so documented? Everything has to be so laid out?

• 32:45Speaker 02

  I mean, there's a lot of, even like the equipment that you wear, oftentimes, well, almost all of it is going to be serialized. So you were issued that equipment, you're responsible for it, there's paperwork that goes for being issued that if you lose it, which does happen, and it's not going to be career ending. Like if, if you went out for a week in a row and you're like, hey, I lost my night vision goggles, I'm gonna need another set of those, you might have a problem. Uh, but shit happens and people lose gear, but you know, night vision, weapons, ordinance, ammunition, like a lot of that stuff is serialized and so it's just the bureaucratic way that even at that level, you still have to keep track of all of that stuff.

• 33:18Joe Rogan?

  You think they should hire somebody else to do that?

• 33:20Speaker 02

  They do, but oftentimes you are in small units, very isolated by yourself, and so you still have to maintain, like even in the middle of nowhere, you're still gonna have to maintain the paperwork aspect of all the stuff that you take with you.

• 33:32Joe Rogan?

  God, that's kinda crazy.

• 33:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:34Joe Rogan?

  That seems like an unnecessary distraction to an already very insanely difficult job.

• 33:39Speaker 02

  I mean, I'm not saying we do the paperwork well.

• 33:44Speaker 02

  I mean, come on Joe, there's a reason why the DOD has never passed an audit, but I mean...

• 33:47Joe Rogan?

  Ever.

• 33:49Joe Rogan?

  I know, the Pentagon, like how many years in a row has the Pentagon failed their audits?

• 33:54Speaker 02

  Like 700?

• 33:57Joe Rogan?

  It really is kinda bonkers.

• 33:59Speaker 02

  I believe the Marine Corps is the only branch of the military that has ever actually done a legitimate audit and passed.

• 34:04Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 34:05Speaker 02

  Those guys are tightened up, man. Those guys, God, I love Marines. They are the best.

• 34:09Joe Rogan?

  Shout out to the Marines.

• 34:10Speaker 02

  They are the best, man.

• 34:11Joe Rogan?

  Wow. They the only guys who passed audits. That's crazy.

• 34:15Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. The rest of us are just out there like, I think I got it with me.

• 34:21Joe Rogan?

  But the problem with that is, once you don't pass audits and there's a history of you not only not passing audits, but not being punished for not passing audits, that opens up the door. No, the Pentagon has never passed, never passed a full, clean, department-wide financial audit as of the latest audits. Defense Department is the only one of 24 major federal agencies that has never passed a full financial audit.

• 34:50Speaker 02

  Hell, yeah.

• 34:52Joe Rogan?

  So it's only been going on since 2018. So no big deal, guys. It's only eight years.

• 34:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's only a few trillion dollars.

• 34:59Joe Rogan?

  Whatever, whatever. It's fake money, anyway. They just make it. That's pretty crazy.

• 35:05Speaker 02

  Well, the budget is interesting in the military. So they go off a fiscal year from October 1st. And...

• 35:11Joe Rogan?

  Look at this. Hold up. Look at this statistic.

• 35:14Speaker 02

  Where we have?

• 35:14Joe Rogan?

  The Pentagon's own audit materials have pointed to a target of around 2028 financial year to achieve, to finally achieve, a clean, department-wide audit, contingent on fixing longstanding accounting and systems problems. Imagine if, like, the IRS calls you up and says, Andy, you didn't pass your audit. You go, I think I can get it in 2028.

• 35:36Speaker 02

  I'm on a lower trajectory towards this target you want to be at. You want me like this? I'm like this.

• 35:41Joe Rogan?

  I can get there in about two years.

• 35:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, they're like, that's reasonable. Let's just take all your money between now and then.

• 35:48Joe Rogan?

  Oh, God, no, we don't need to do that. Let's give you a bigger budget to work with.

• 35:52Speaker 02

  I wonder if that answer takes into account what's going on currently in the world, because I feel like we're running through some inventory that might have to be tabulated.

• 35:59Joe Rogan?

  Seems like there's probably a lot of ordinance that's been...

• 36:03Speaker 02

  Yeah. A lot of it does sit around for a while, so there is an argument to expending it. I am not in any way, shape, or form...

• 36:08Joe Rogan?

  It could go bad. It's like tomatoes. You gotta eat them.

• 36:11Speaker 02

  Not exactly like tomatoes.

• 36:15Speaker 02

  I suppose a grenade is slightly tomato shaped, but a JDAM looks nothing like a tomato.

• 36:22Joe Rogan?

  What do they do? What? I mean, just, I don't know if this has ever happened. What do they do if, whether it's missiles or any weapons have been sitting around too long and you, is there an expiration date?

• 36:35Speaker 02

  There probably is. And I mean, I've been there when we have literally burned like rifle ammunition, large stockpiles of rifle ammunition.

• 36:43Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 36:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:44Joe Rogan?

  Because if it's sitting around too long, there comes the possibility that it's no longer effective?

• 36:50Speaker 02

  Uh, man, this was a while ago. I think it was more that once we got issued it, we were expected to expend it all. So we were not allowed to take it back to base with us. So we were...

• 36:58Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's hilarious. That's even dumber.

• 37:01Speaker 02

  You want some funny stories? Talk to Evan sometime. I bet you he's had this experience. So there's a weapon called the Carl Gustaf that if you shoot too many of these things, it's in the manual, it'll start separating the lining in your lungs from your body because you're just, it is just this massive projectile. And you'll go out and do these training evolutions and they'll say, yeah, here we are, the Carl G. Do not stand behind this bad boy when it goes off.

• 37:28Joe Rogan?

  So how many can you shoot before it separates the linings of your lungs?

• 37:32Speaker 02

  I believe the warning is somewhere around six.

• 37:35Joe Rogan?

  Jesus Christ!

• 37:37Speaker 02

  Oh, Joe, you'll go out to training evolutions and there'll be five guys and there's a pallet of ammunition and they'll say, you're not leaving here until all these are shot.

• 37:44Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my God.

• 37:45Speaker 02

  And you're cracking off Carl G's until you have a nosebleed. Or you'll go out, they have like law rockets or, you know, when I first went through was M60 ammo. They're like, yeah, but you guys, the training's not over until you guys shoot all this. But like, yeah, but we totally did everything we're supposed to. And we're like, yeah, we understand that, but just go ahead and lay down on the line and shoot these thousands of rounds of ammunition at whatever you want to because it's been issued to you. So now you need to go expend it.

• 38:11Joe Rogan?

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• 38:56Joe Rogan?

  Don't have insurance or live outside of the United States? You can still get 10% off your first month. Visit betterhelp.com to explore your payment options. That's better H E L P dot com. This episode is brought to you by The Farmer's Dog. Here's a fun fact. Research shows that dogs who maintain a healthy weight can live up to two and a half years longer on average than dogs who are overweight. Isn't that wild and also kind of obvious at the same time? So why is feeding vague scoops of ultra-processed kibble still the status quo for most dog owners? Healthy alternatives exist, and trust me, I know. I buy one, The Farmer's Dog. I use it for both my dogs. They love it. They eat it up quick.

• 39:41Joe Rogan?

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• 40:25Joe Rogan?

  This offer is for new customers only.

• 40:29Joe Rogan?

  Can you show me one of those things going off, Jamie? Carl G's? I wanna see what it looks like.

• 40:35Speaker 02

  I'm trying to talk my wife into naming our next dub Carl G.

• 40:39Joe Rogan?

  I shot a 50 caliber once. And I was like-

• 40:42Speaker 02

  Like a Barrett?

• 40:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. I was like-

• 40:43Speaker 02

  How'd that feel?

• 40:44Joe Rogan?

  Boom! Like, your whole body just goes, boom!

• 40:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, so this is a two-man evolution here. Look at the size of that bad boy.

• 40:52Joe Rogan?

  Holy shit.

• 40:53Speaker 02

  Close it, lock it, he's checking the back blast. This guy's like, "Fuck, I'm about to lose my teeth."

• 41:02Joe Rogan?

  Here we go. Oh, did he shoot it?

• 41:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:05Joe Rogan?

  I didn't see it.

• 41:06Speaker 02

  It's supposed to be essentially recoilless. It doesn't feel-

• 41:08Joe Rogan?

  Well, why didn't they show it?

• 41:09Speaker 02

  They did.

• 41:10Joe Rogan?

  Show it again?

• 41:12Speaker 02

  That's the back blast right there.

• 41:13Joe Rogan?

  Oh, so he doesn't even move?

• 41:16Speaker 02

  Oh, when he was pulling the trigger, that wasn't loaded. That was a fake shot of him showing how you pull the trigger.

• 41:21Joe Rogan?

  Oh, okay. Let me see if there's more video. I just want a better shot of it actually going off in his arms. Let me see what it looks like. Ready for fire? Here we go. Back blast area clear! Boy, he looks fucking nervous.

• 41:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:36Joe Rogan?

  Look at him breathing. Firing, firing, firing! Woo! Oh my goodness.

• 41:45Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, airburst. You can set these suckers, you can twist the warhead to set a delay on the thing. You can have it airburst, like if they're trying to play hide and seek with you on a wall.

• 41:54Joe Rogan?

  See, this is the argument for those little robot dogs. Cause you put one on one of them little robot dogs and have that thing shoot it, and that way you don't have to lose the lining of your lungs.

• 42:02Speaker 02

  I don't know if a robot dog could handle that thing.

• 42:05Joe Rogan?

  Really? What about one of them big robot dogs?

• 42:09Speaker 02

  I don't know if the answer is just make it bigger. Probably, I'm sure there's a size of robot dog that can handle that.

• 42:13Joe Rogan?

  I mean, you would imagine.

• 42:15Speaker 02

  But then you would need a friendly other robot dog to reload it for him.

• 42:19Joe Rogan?

  Right, but that would be possible. That would totally be possible. Or the robot dog has like arms in the back-

• 42:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:25Joe Rogan?

  That can do it.

• 42:26Speaker 02

  Oh, that was a training round. Nice little rifle, barely.

• 42:30Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's crazy. That's cool to see. What a great shot. Imagine standing there, taking that shot, though. Fuck all that.

• 42:37Speaker 02

  As it is loading a round into it.

• 42:39Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that.

• 42:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, good lord.

• 42:43Speaker 02

  Yeah. No, next time you're sitting down with Evan, ask him like, hey, did you ever, at the end of training evolutions, ever have extra ordinance and ammunition that you had to dispose of?

• 42:54Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy. They just make you blow it up.

• 42:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, his answer will be yes, and he'll just start laughing.

• 43:00Joe Rogan?

  So if you have to do it outside of shooting, how do you do it?

• 43:04Speaker 02

  You can blow stuff in place, like you can make a large pile of stuff and, you know.

• 43:08Joe Rogan?

  Launch something at it?

• 43:10Speaker 02

  Uh.

• 43:10Joe Rogan?

  Or do you light it on fire?

• 43:11Speaker 02

  Hmm, you can actually light ammunition on fire. It'll go off and if outside of.

• 43:15Joe Rogan?

  Direction?

• 43:16Speaker 02

  Well, outside of it being compressed in the chamber of a gun, which, you know, if you, if you think of like an AR platform rifle, when the round is in the magazine, it gets pushed forward by the bolt and it's being held by all sides except for down the barrel. So all of the pressure is pointed in that direction, which is what propels the bullet down the barrel. If you remove that, it kind of just explodes in place. I'm not saying it's safe to like stand around and like have a beer while you're watching, like from me to you.

• 43:41Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 43:41Speaker 02

  We would be on the other side of a burn, but it sounds like popcorn going off.

• 43:44Joe Rogan?

  Oh, okay.

• 43:46Speaker 02

  And then for other stuff, you can layer explosive charges on top of it and probably get all of it to go.

• 43:51Joe Rogan?

  God, it seems insanely wasteful. It seems like you should be able to say, we achieved what we needed to achieve in our training. Here is our excess ordinance that we could use in the future.

• 44:02Speaker 02

  Mm hmm. Yeah, you just haven't spent enough time around the military.

• 44:05Joe Rogan?

  Uh, well, that's been explained to me about budgets, that if you do not meet your budget, you get in trouble because then they can't ask for the same amount of money next year.

• 44:16Speaker 02

  So I heard that every year that when I was in, and September was a fantastic month to be in the military because that's when they, because the budget year is October 1 to October 1. So September, the bean counters really start taking a look at what they have left. And they'd say, I was a supply rep for a short period of time, meaning I was, I was a little cog in the wheel of supplying stuff to the guys. They're like, you need to spend a hundred thousand dollars in the next three hours on shoes.

• 44:44Speaker 02

  Which, let me tell you, REI is happy to take your money. REI.com will run that card. And you always would hear this. If we don't spend it, we're gonna lose it. But I never actually saw that tested. I don't know if you actually would get in trouble. They just always assumed that you would, so you ran that sucker down to bankrupt. And then, October 1st, you're good to go.

• 45:04Joe Rogan?

  Wow. So here's a good question in terms of like shoes. When your missions involve a bunch of different types of terrain, a bunch of, like, is it, do they favor a lighter weight shoe? That's more of an all-purpose shoe? Because like, I couldn't imagine you would be wearing like, like a crispy mountain boot with like, high leather. Yeah?

• 45:27Speaker 02

  Well, so it depends.

• 45:28Joe Rogan?

  So you'd vary.

• 45:29Speaker 02

  You gotta have a wardrobe, Joe.

• 45:30Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 45:32Speaker 02

  Being good at your job is second only to looking good while doing your job. So we, trust me, I've sent people back to, like, your top and bottom aren't matching. We're not doing this, go change.

• 45:41Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 45:42Speaker 02

  Yeah. You have to look the part. It's equal to your professionalism and tactical ability.

• 45:47Joe Rogan?

  Interesting.

• 45:48Speaker 02

  Yeah. Maybe perhaps I was a little bit picky on that, but I don't, I don't wanna clash on the battlefield. You need to look good.

• 45:55Speaker 02

  It's like, you can't have everybody looking awesome and then, like, you look like shit. Go change your outfit out.

• 46:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you have orange boots on, dude. What are you doing?

• 46:01Speaker 02

  Yeah. The boots, you could, I mean, you take a Pelican case or a box. You have a tool for every job. So if you're gonna go up in the mountains, if you're gonna go, like, northeastern Afghanistan, you're gonna wear a different type of shoe, for sure. If you're in Iraq, in an urban environment, you're gonna wear probably the lightest weight, like, the, I forget who makes them, but like, the Speedcross shoes. And those things are, I mean, you might get two months out of those, so you bring a couple pair. You're gonna bring some footwear that if you needed to go into the water, like, not swim around in the water, but pass through water.

• 46:34Joe Rogan?

  Are those like Solomons? Is that what the Speedcross is?

• 46:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, and the soles on those things, they don't last very long, but again, when you get a hundred grand, buy shoes for three hours. You can buy, you know, extras for people. So you kinda have a, it's just like all the rest of the gear. You have cold weather gear, you have desert gear. And the coldest I've ever been is actually in the desert, because of the super high, high, and then the super, that swing.

• 46:56Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 46:56Speaker 02

  Was way colder than, like, in mountainous terrain.

• 46:59Joe Rogan?

  It's like the moon.

• 47:00Speaker 02

  Yeah. But I mean, so you, when you lay out your stuff, like, before every deployment, you get ready to go on, you're laying your stuff out. You probably have two tables, like this, with all, like, desert. Woodland, cold weather, layering system, shoes, different load-bearing equipment, different back, and then you just lay it all out, put it into a bag, and then you're doing the best you can, and you're kind of just packing, you know, for what comes up in front of you.

• 47:24Joe Rogan?

  And you're just ordering stuff from REI for real?

• 47:26Speaker 02

  Sometimes, yeah.

• 47:27Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 47:28Speaker 02

  So, not everybody, not everywhere. The conventional teams are very limited in their ability to do that. At a JSOC level, you have a little bit more room and flexibility to source from outside vendors.

• 47:37Joe Rogan?

  So you would go for the best possible tool for the job?

• 47:40Speaker 02

  100% of the time.

• 47:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 47:42Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 47:42Joe Rogan?

  Instead of just get military issue?

• 47:45Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 47:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 47:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:47Joe Rogan?

  I got the dumbest question for you about Afghanistan.

• 47:50Speaker 02

  Tell me more.

• 47:51Joe Rogan?

  This is the dumbest question. Have you heard of the story of the Kandahar giant?

• 47:58Speaker 02

  Are we talking about an actual giant?

• 48:02Joe Rogan?

  Uh huh.

• 48:03Speaker 02

  No. How did you hear the story about a Kandahar giant?

• 48:07Joe Rogan?

  There's a crazy thing called the internet.

• 48:09Speaker 02

  I may spend less time on the internet than you guys.

• 48:15Joe Rogan?

  And if you have a good algorithm, and by good, I mean retarded.

• 48:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:20Joe Rogan?

  You get, so...

• 48:22Speaker 02

  Oh my!

• 48:23Speaker 04

  This is a visual representation, obviously not an actual picture.

• 48:26Joe Rogan?

  So, there was a story that, what is the guy's name that was on Jesse Michaels' podcast recently? Tim?

• 48:33Speaker 04

  I don't remember, I'll check.

• 48:36Joe Rogan?

  So, supposedly, there was a giant that engaged US troops in Kandahar, Afghanistan, and in a very remote area, and this guy was shot and killed, and medevaced out of there, you know, helicoptered out of there, and that 12-foot giant, Tim Albarino.

• 48:59Speaker 02

  And he was, was he telling this story as if he was there, or he heard this?

• 49:04Joe Rogan?

  There's never a guy who was there.

• 49:06Speaker 02

  Damn it!

• 49:07Joe Rogan?

  There's apparently one guy who has his face covered up in one of these videos that I watched, is like one of the blurry, like, you know, like a witness to a mob scene.

• 49:15Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 49:15Joe Rogan?

  And so his...

• 49:16Speaker 02

  That's how you know they're legit.

• 49:17Joe Rogan?

  100%! Thank you! I think the same way. That's why I sent it to all my friends. But he was telling the story from people that he talked to that were there.

• 49:27Speaker 02

  See, and here's the thing, I want stories like that to be true.

• 49:29Joe Rogan?

  Me too.

• 49:31Speaker 02

  I still am just waiting. Same thing with aliens. God, I so deeply want it to be true. I just need somebody to hold up an actual piece of evidence.

• 49:38Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 49:39Speaker 02

  And say, this is what I'm talking about. Instead of, I saw, I know somebody who was read into. I had a buddy who got engaged by a giant, or they, like, okay, where is it?

• 49:52Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 49:53Speaker 02

  And until then, I got a real hard time believing that.

• 49:56Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I'm with you. But I also want to believe, which I know clouds my vision.

• 50:01Speaker 02

  I just think it makes you hopeful.

• 50:03Joe Rogan?

  It gets me to a certain point, and then the point, like, there's a point where my logic kicks in, and I'm not willing to go any further, and that's Bigfoot.

• 50:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:12Joe Rogan?

  With Bigfoot, I'm like, I know too many guys that are in the woods all the time.

• 50:17Speaker 02

  And let's not forget the game cameras they often leave behind.

• 50:19Joe Rogan?

  That's right.

• 50:20Speaker 02

  Like, millions of game cameras.

• 50:21Joe Rogan?

  That's right. At this point, like, I could have bought it in the 1960s, like, maybe, who knows? Before drones, before satellites, before this, before that. And, you know, there's good arguments that you wouldn't find the body, because like, you and I have hunted in the mountains many, many times. I've never seen a mountain lion skeleton. Have you?

• 50:43Speaker 02

  No.

• 50:44Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 50:44Speaker 02

  No.

• 50:44Joe Rogan?

  I don't know anybody who has. I've seen mountain lions, I've never seen a mountain lion skeleton. I've never seen a bear skeleton. I'm sure people have found them.

• 50:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:51Joe Rogan?

  But I haven't, and we know there's a shit ton of mountain lions and a shit ton of bears. So if there was a very small population of primates, it's not inconceivable that you wouldn't find their body. Especially if they were in some way advanced to the point where they were burying their dead, which is, you know, it's not outside the realm of possibility if they have a language of like, who knows what these things are? Uh, but no, I just, that doesn't, I think it used to be real. And I think there's real evidence of that.

• 51:22Speaker 02

  I want it to be.

• 51:23Joe Rogan?

  No, there's real evidence. There's a thing called Gigantopithecus. It was a eight foot plus tall bipedal hominid that existed in Asia. And it's in the orangutan family. And there's like recreations of what it looks like standing next to a human. It's huge. But that just makes sense. I mean, there used to be giant woolly mammoths. There used to be giant sloths. The, the idea of a giant primate is not inconceivable. It's like size is all relative anyway. Our idea of what's big compared to a fucking giraffe or this, it's all, it doesn't, you know, if you have enough resources and there's enough food for these things, they live in a lush tropical environment or a lush wilderness environment. It's not impossible to think that something would get way bigger than a gorilla.

• 52:07Joe Rogan?

  But for that thing to exist today.

• 52:09Speaker 02

  Oh, God.

• 52:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's what it used to look like. So I think that is probably what all these ancient myths are based on. That's probably what used to exist. So it was bipedal, which is also interesting. And that's based on its jaw structure.

• 52:28Speaker 02

  Here's a, here's a question for you that you, the species burying themselves. These are intrusive thoughts that I have and can't get out of my head. Why don't we bury people vertically to save space?

• 52:38Joe Rogan?

  That's a good question.

• 52:39Speaker 02

  Wouldn't you get more square footage?

• 52:40Joe Rogan?

  A lot more.

• 52:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:41Joe Rogan?

  Be harder to make a six foot tall hole or, you know, for the tall person.

• 52:45Speaker 02

  I feel like they make oil drills that could, I mean, I'm not saying that would look.

• 52:48Joe Rogan?

  They do now.

• 52:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:49Joe Rogan?

  But back in the day, it'd be easy to, if someone's laid down, just roll them over into the hole.

• 52:54Speaker 02

  I mean, I would.

• 52:54Joe Rogan?

  But because of six foot deep hole, that's like six feet long.

• 52:58Speaker 02

  Joe, I'm not saying it's easy. I'm just saying.

• 53:01Joe Rogan?

  In today's world, yeah.

• 53:02Speaker 02

  I think we can evolve.

• 53:04Joe Rogan?

  Well, here's even weirder. You know, you have to embalm people before you cremate them.

• 53:11Speaker 02

  Why?

• 53:12Joe Rogan?

  Exactly. My friend Joey Diaz says it's a racket because he knew a guy who ran a funeral home.

• 53:17Speaker 02

  The big embalming market?

• 53:18Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's all racket. The whole funeral home thing's a racket. They know, like, your family member dies, you have to bury your family member, you're in grief, and then they try to sell you on some fucking fancy coffin, they sell you on this and sell you on that. But the embalming is, it's mandatory.

• 53:35Speaker 02

  I did not know that.

• 53:35Joe Rogan?

  At least for some places. Because I know that some people are trying to do what they call natural burials. I don't know what the regulations are on, like, let's find that out.

• 53:45Speaker 04

  Oh, I'm already looking. There are upright, they call it upright burials.

• 53:48Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 53:48Speaker 04

  It is a thing.

• 53:49Joe Rogan?

  They do exist.

• 53:49Speaker 02

  In the US, though, or is this some, like, Nordic country?

• 53:52Speaker 04

  There's a cemetery that does it already. I was trying to look up more information on it.

• 53:55Speaker 02

  Probably a bunch of cheapies who don't want to.

• 53:57Speaker 04

  One thing already that I can give up space.

• 53:58Speaker 02

  I'm just thinking about, like, most of them have fences, so, like, maximum square footage utilization?

• 54:02Joe Rogan?

  Right. That makes sense.

• 54:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:05Speaker 04

  Like, the gravity's an issue a little bit, keeping it in the, I don't know, there's just stuff.

• 54:08Joe Rogan?

  Gravity's an issue.

• 54:09Speaker 02

  Gravity's not going to be an issue. First off, once you're in that coffin and nothing good's happening.

• 54:12Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 54:13Speaker 02

  Vertically, her horse.

• 54:14Joe Rogan?

  How does it, that doesn't make sense. What kind of gravity is it, just drop them in the hole?

• 54:19Speaker 02

  They, I think the family.

• 54:20Joe Rogan?

  Like, it'd be like this, like, like, slide it down that hole.

• 54:24Speaker 02

  I think they're saying the family doesn't like the idea that they're going to be compressed into a small amount in the bottom of the coffin.

• 54:29Speaker 04

  Like a science issue, I think.

• 54:30Joe Rogan?

  Well, they're fucking dead. You know? You know the most gnarly way they bury people, or the most gnarly funeral?

• 54:37Speaker 02

  Well, they're still alive?

• 54:38Joe Rogan?

  No. Well, they're dead.

• 54:39Speaker 02

  Well, I'm saying that would be the most gnarly.

• 54:41Joe Rogan?

  Right. The most gnarly postmortem is the Tibetan sky funeral. Do you know how they do that?

• 54:46Speaker 02

  No.

• 54:48Joe Rogan?

  Vultures. They literally break the body up, chop it up into chunks, and the vultures know it, and so they prepare. So the vultures are all hanging around waiting.

• 54:58Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 54:58Joe Rogan?

  It is a tradition in Tibet with at least certain people to get rid of their bodies that way. And the idea is that, look, the person's dead, this is a more natural way, you know, and they'll cycle back into the ecosystem the way it's supposed to be with all animals. We're the only animal that opts out of, like, re- rejoining.

• 55:21Joe Rogan?

  With all biological life. Cause it's supposed to be a biological body deteriorates underground that feeds the soil that feeds, you know, whatever animals feast on its bones. And then it becomes all part of this big, beautiful cycle. And we're like, nah, we've got some chemicals laying around. We'd like to fill the veins up with to make them completely poison. So that they never deteriorate or they just slowly turn into gelatinous sludge.

• 55:49Speaker 04

  By state, it looks like.

• 55:50Joe Rogan?

  Okay. So it says burial, burial, burial. Why is that word weird to me right now? Burial is regulated by state by state, uh, city county zoning. There's no federal rule that specifies body position, horizontal versus vertical. Um, what are the laws in terms of embalming? Green or natural burial, simple shroud, no vault, minimal disturbance is legal in all 50 states, but only in locations that comply with state and local rules. Green or natural burial.

• 56:24Speaker 04

  From water sources would be a big reason for that.

• 56:27Joe Rogan?

  Oh, interesting. So you don't want people to rot, but what about cows? Cows can rot, you know, like a dead coyote just rots.

• 56:35Speaker 04

  Yeah, but we don't wanna eat people.

• 56:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but it's not.

• 56:39Speaker 04

  Or drink them either.

• 56:40Joe Rogan?

  I guess. Well, it didn't, no. I was watching this documentary about this family where, uh, the kid, his dad was a serial killer and the dad would throw people in a well. And he had to help him when he was young. His dad would.

• 56:55Speaker 04

  Oh, boy.

• 56:55Joe Rogan?

  Kill people and then throw them down the well. First time he did it, he said, I think it was a young boy when his dad first took him to get rid of a body and throw it down a well.

• 57:07Speaker 02

  Not all.

• 57:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, how many people.

• 57:09Speaker 02

  Bonding experiences are created equal.

• 57:10Joe Rogan?

  How many people have died drinking well water that was polluted by a dead body?

• 57:14Speaker 02

  Hopefully not that many.

• 57:15Joe Rogan?

  What'd you find, Jamie?

• 57:16Speaker 04

  No, I'm just, that's disgusting.

• 57:19Speaker 02

  Have you thought through your end of life? Have you told people?

• 57:23Joe Rogan?

  I would like to not be embalmed. I would like to just be buried in the ground and be absorbed naturally like everything else.

• 57:28Speaker 02

  Do you have that written down anywhere, though?

• 57:30Joe Rogan?

  No. I don't care. Once I'm gone, figure it out. I don't give a fuck.

• 57:34Speaker 02

  Well, there's an argument to help figuring it out for those left behind, so it makes it easier.

• 57:39Joe Rogan?

  I don't want to make things easier. When I'm gone, I want it to be complicated as fuck. I want them to be arguing over my will.

• 57:48Speaker 02

  Well, I only ask because we had to think through this stuff because you do like a review of your will every time.

• 57:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 57:54Speaker 02

  And, you know, final requests, I guess it would be. So you had to think through that stuff.

• 57:57Joe Rogan?

  Jamie, stop scrolling. So for direct cremation, no public viewing, cremation within a few days, body kept refrigerated, embalming is generally unnecessary and not legally required in most states. But the thing is, it's most of the time it's done. According to my friend Joey, whose friend, at least it was in the past, his friend ran a funeral home. The guy was telling him what a fucking scam it all is. You're just charging people for all this stuff.

• 58:26Speaker 02

  It probably, just like anything else.

• 58:27Joe Rogan?

  Here it is. Many funeral homes require embalming for presentation and public health reasons. If you want a public viewing or an open casket before cremation. Oh, who does that? Some jurisdictions or airlines may require embalming for long distance or international transport. Or if there's a long delay before cremation. Well, that makes sense. Because if you don't embalm it, you're going to stink up the whole fucking plane. US law jet. I mean, I'm sure you've smelled dead bodies before, but the first time I ever smelled a dead body, I was a little kid and someone died in our apartment building. It was crazy. You'd walk down the hallway and the fucking smell. It was me and my cousins and my sister.

• 59:12Joe Rogan?

  We were walking down the hall. We were like, what is that? We were probably like six. It was this insane smell. And it turned out this lady who was just living by herself died. And so she was just rotting in this apartment building.

• 59:25Speaker 02

  You think you still recognize it to this day? It's very unique.

• 59:29Joe Rogan?

  Is it? Humans have a very unique smell as opposed to a regular animal?

• 59:33Speaker 02

  Well, the mechanism of death can change, I guess, a little bit.

• 59:37Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 59:38Speaker 02

  But in general, yeah, a couple of days later, like, they'll kind of smell the same.

• 59:42Joe Rogan?

  I've heard, yeah, I've heard humans are uniquely gross in the way we smell.

• 59:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, it's not awesome.

• 59:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 59:50Speaker 02

  Not awesome to be around it.

• 59:52Joe Rogan?

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• 1:00:32Joe Rogan?

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• 1:01:15Joe Rogan?

  So this embalming thing, um, so is that not the case? Like, is it where funeral homes request embalming before they cremate you?

• 1:01:26Joe Rogan?

  Also, here's another scam, according to my friend. When you think you get your family member ashes, you get a bunch of shit. You get a bunch of ashes. You get ashes from some fucking, fucking guy you don't even know. They don't care. They just shove a bunch of ashes into an urn. You're like, it's grandma. She's, she's here with us forever. But it's not really. It's like some-

• 1:01:48Speaker 02

  I hope that one's not true. That's gnarly.

• 1:01:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's true.

• 1:01:51Speaker 02

  That's like the epitome of laziness.

• 1:01:53Joe Rogan?

  I'm pretty sure it's true.

• 1:01:54Speaker 04

  The question as though if the requirement is coming from funeral homes instead of law. And the court says, yeah.

• 1:01:59Joe Rogan?

  Most of the time, yes, the requirement to embalm before viewing or before cremation is coming from funeral homes or cemetery policy. Right, so they're trying to make more money. So this is what Joey was telling me about. Yeah. So it's not a federal requirement. FTC says embalming may be necessary if you choose certain arrangements like a public viewing. But the necessity is based on the funeral home standards, not a blanket legal mandate. So the, most people probably don't know that. So the funeral home will tell you, oh, we have to embalm them first.

• 1:02:31Speaker 02

  And you're in a pretty susceptible and malleable mind space.

• 1:02:34Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 1:02:35Speaker 02

  At that time, yeah.

• 1:02:35Joe Rogan?

  And they're just really used to it. They're really used to it. They must get, they must get so accustomed to just, they don't give a fuck. There's bodies there every day. People are always dying. It just, it's an opportunity to make more money, which is rough.

• 1:02:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, you would like to think that humanity wouldn't be like that. But yet, here we are.

• 1:02:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Find out if, well, the other thing is like, you remember that Sam Kinison bit? I don't know if you ever saw it.

• 1:03:02Speaker 02

  I know who Sam Kinison is. I'm not very familiar with his bits.

• 1:03:05Joe Rogan?

  One of the greatest of all time. But he had this bit about homosexual necrophiliacs who were caught spending, paying a bunch of money to be alone with the freshest male corpse.

• 1:03:18Speaker 02

  What?

• 1:03:18Joe Rogan?

  And it was this bit, it was an actual true story that he read in the news. But his whole thing was like, imagine you're on the slab. You're like, well, I'm dead now. I'm gonna be with Jesus and hey, hey, what? And he would be like rocking back and forth on his stomach. What is this? It feels like some guy's got his dick in my ass. You mean, life keeps fucking you in the ass even after you're dead? It never ends. It never ends. Ow, ow!

• 1:03:43Speaker 02

  You comedians are a unique bunch. Let's, you know.

• 1:03:47Joe Rogan?

  Somebody's gotta do it.

• 1:03:48Speaker 02

  I'm glad there's somebody out there who can weave a story like that together and have a meaningful message at the end of it.

• 1:03:54Joe Rogan?

  But there are, there have been cases of people getting like hot girls that are freshly dead and fucking them, getting caught.

• 1:04:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, because humans are horrible.

• 1:04:02Joe Rogan?

  Disgusting.

• 1:04:04Speaker 02

  The vast, I, I try to tell myself that the vast majority of humans are trying to do the best that they can, but I never forget that there are people out there who are like that.

• 1:04:13Joe Rogan?

  Sure. Yeah, there's people out there that are gross. They're just evil. I'm, I was reading about this guy who was an oncologist who got arrested because he was giving people chemotherapy that didn't really have cancer. Because chemotherapy is uniquely profitable for doctors.

• 1:04:27Speaker 02

  Really?

• 1:04:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. It's very profitable. So, he was telling people that they had cancer and they did not, and he was giving them chemotherapy, which, I have a friend who died recently and he went through the first round of chemotherapy, went into remission, and the chemotherapy was so bad that when the cancer came back, he decided to just die.

• 1:04:48Speaker 02

  That's how my mom died. She had survived cervical cancer. It metastasized into her lungs 10 years later. Got on the chemo, which I don't know what is in that stuff, but they, you know, the platinum treatment, whatever it may be, and had the realization that she was either going to die from cancer or she was going to die from the chemotherapy. And she chose hospice just because the ride on the chemotherapy was so horrible that she couldn't take it anymore.

• 1:05:15Joe Rogan?

  My friend said that the pain of brushing his teeth was so intense, like the sores in his mouth from the chemo, and then once cancer went into remission, then it came back, and by the way, this cancer came very quickly after vaccination, was one of those, where, you know, you can get into that all day long if you want to really get into a deep conspiracy theory that's got some real facts to it, but there's something called SV40. And they found SV40 in some of the mRNA vaccines. SV40 is simian virus 40, and it's a virus that was contracted, that people got because

• 1:05:55Joe Rogan?

  they used kidney cells from monkeys in order to cultivate these vaccines. This is like known about for a long time, and in certain batches, they've tested positive for SV40, which is like some just legacy material that they have, that they make vaccines out of. And he was one of the lucky ones.

• 1:06:23Speaker 02

  Sucks, man.

• 1:06:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he was a young dude, you know, he was in his 40s, early 40s, fit, young guy. Cancer came on like a fucking tidal wave.

• 1:06:32Speaker 02

  Just a freight train who mowed him down? How much time did he have between diagnosis and death?

• 1:06:36Joe Rogan?

  I got him connected with Gary Brekka, and Gary Brekka helped him quite a bit, and that's how he originally got through it, and it got over it. He was okay again, and, you know, went into remission, he said he's feeling pretty good, and then, man, it wasn't more than a year and a half, two years later, it came back with a vengeance. And he was dead just, you know, six, six months later.

• 1:07:06Speaker 02

  Does it change how you view life, your own life, when that happens close to you?

• 1:07:09Joe Rogan?

  It's just shocking that healthy, fit people get something like that, and it happens so quickly. You know, this is, you know, like I said, my suspicions is it's connected to the vaccine. And don't, I don't think that everybody who got that mRNA vaccine is gonna die of cancer. I, I think it's a contamination issue, that some of the batches had it and some of the batches didn't, but, and then some people react very differently to whatever, whatever's in it, but with him, man, it got him. And it's not uncommon, there's, there's a shitload of ignored cases of what they're calling turbo cancer, that people have gotten after the mRNA vaccine, like, it's, it's

• 1:07:55Joe Rogan?

  barely a conspiracy theory, it's more likely an ignored inconvenient fact that these pharmaceutical drug companies are trying to ignore.

• 1:08:05Speaker 02

  Do you think they were trying, going upstream from that, the pharmaceutical companies or people that were pushing to try to find what perhaps they thought would be the fix to the solution? Do you think that they were doing the best that they could and just their enthusiasm outstripped their capabilities or they pushed stuff a little bit too early? Or was it as deep of as a conspiracy that people think and that behind the scenes they're trying to reduce overall global population?

• 1:08:29Joe Rogan?

  I don't go that way. I don't go to the reduce overall global population, but I do understand why people would think that because there are, there have been a bunch of people that are supposedly philanthropists, Bill Gates, that have talked about reducing overall population being a goal and that goal could be like, Bill Gates is actually quoted saying that that goal could be achieved through vaccines. Like, what the fuck does that mean? Reducing global population through vaccines? How? Well, one way is the, what is it? DDP or DTP vaccine? Diptheria, something and Precusus. So they were caught in Africa.

• 1:09:12Joe Rogan?

  One of the vaccines that they were using on women in Africa turned out, it's tetanus, right? Diptheria, tetanus and Precusus? Had HCG in it, which is an endocrine disruptor. I don't know what's the exact, specific description of it, but what it was essentially doing was rendering these women infertile. And so they were supposedly vaccinating them for tetanus and these other diseases, but really what it was doing was they were making these women infertile and they were experimenting on them and they were doing this in Africa.

• 1:09:52Joe Rogan?

  You know, they, they like to experiment in places where not a lot of people are watching and there's not a lot of infrastructure and not a lot of internet connection and they can, you know, get away with trying stuff on people. So this, this concept of reducing population through vaccination, there's some real world examples of people doing that, but you know, why? I don't know. I don't think that, I think if you find out about how much money was generated during the vaccine pandemic, during the COVID pandemic. That is the most likely scenario. They were just trying to make an enormous amount of money.

• 1:10:30Speaker 02

  Do you remember that you and I did the first podcast after the lockdown in LA?

• 1:10:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:36Speaker 02

  And then I drove, I drove with my wife down to San Diego and I don't think she had been, because we got to San Diego in about 17 minutes.

• 1:10:45Joe Rogan?

  No one in the road.

• 1:10:47Speaker 02

  And I remember saying to her, if we come back, which we will, don't expect this. It was like a ghost town, but we were in LA the day that it locked down. I remember texting you like, um, are we good? You're like, yeah, YouTube says we're essential. Let's roll.

• 1:11:03Joe Rogan?

  We're essential. That was what was crazy. There was essential businesses that were allowed to stay open. Restaurants weren't one of them, fucking insanely enough, but fast food places were. Um, so there was certain places that were essential and media was essential. So we were allowed to, although we did get ratted out. The health department came to our, um, LA studio and, uh, they made us put a bag of masks on the wall. When you go in and also a note that shows like all the precautions that you have to take place. Like stand six feet apart. And then the people were also complaining that this table's not six feet wide. And so we weren't observing the proper, proper social distancing. So I said, okay, well, why don't we just do this and you do that and we'll do a podcast.

• 1:11:45Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, we're six feet.

• 1:11:46Joe Rogan?

  Now we're six feet. Now we're good. Here.

• 1:11:50Joe Rogan?

  And then it turns out that that was all made up. It was all horse shit. You know, it's the Who song. We won't get fooled again, you know?

• 1:11:58Speaker 02

  I want to believe that they were trying to do the best that they can.

• 1:12:00Joe Rogan?

  I don't believe that.

• 1:12:01Speaker 02

  I said, I want to believe.

• 1:12:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I know. I don't even want to believe that.

• 1:12:04Speaker 02

  But then what do we do about it?

• 1:12:06Joe Rogan?

  We never listen again.

• 1:12:07Speaker 02

  What if they're right the next time is the issue?

• 1:12:10Joe Rogan?

  I don't think they will be. Um, I don't think they're ever right with that kind of stuff, especially something that's not killing everybody as they said it was. They were just gaslighting us all over television. The people were dropping like flies and especially egregiously disgusting is gaslighting us about children dying from it.

• 1:12:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:12:28Joe Rogan?

  You know, and there's a lot of really fucking shitty human beings that were posting about this on Twitter. And I don't know if they're being paid to do it or if they're just ideologically captured. But there was a lot of people on Twitter talking about children dying from COVID. It's a fucking dirty lie. There was a very small amount of kids that died during the pandemic and those kids. All of them had something wrong with them already. All of them had comorbidities, which is like also a giant percentage of all the people that died, period. It's like, what is the number? It's like seventy-five percent of them, something like that, had four plus comorbidities. Four comorbidities is crazy.

• 1:13:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:13:14Joe Rogan?

  It's like, you're already fucked. That means four things that are already killing you, you know?

• 1:13:18Speaker 02

  Yeah. Do you think we learned anything during that time period?

• 1:13:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. I think we learned that the pharmaceutical drug company has a lock on the media that is very disturbing. Like, the media did not report at all vaccine injuries. They didn't report on it at all. It was never discussed. People were dropping dead, they were ignoring it and gaslighting. And then we also found out the amount of money that these pharmaceutical drug companies pay to these corporations, whether it's Fox, or NBC, or CBS, or whoever it is, in advertising. It's a huge part of their budget, is advertising money. And the way Callie Means explained it to me, he goes, "It's not so that people find out about the drugs.

• 1:14:04Joe Rogan?

  It's so that these news stations don't criticize the pharmaceutical drug companies."

• 1:14:09Speaker 02

  Well, if they control the ad inventory and then the checkbook behind that.

• 1:14:13Joe Rogan?

  Exactly. Exactly.

• 1:14:14Speaker 02

  Do you ever do, do you ever do pharmaceutical type reads for your show?

• 1:14:19Joe Rogan?

  No, no, I say no to them.

• 1:14:20Speaker 02

  I only say yes to dick pills.

• 1:14:23Joe Rogan?

  Dick pills I'll say yes to.

• 1:14:24Speaker 02

  Like, listen, get hard, stay hard.

• 1:14:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, I'm down with that. Well, see, I'm not anti-pharmaceutical drug company, but I am, and the problem with corporations is they have an obligation to their shareholders to make the most amount of money possible. And it's not the people that are making these things, the people that are making them, these doctors and engineers and scientists, all these wizards that are coming up with all these life-saving medications. Then you get the money people. And the money people are the ones that fuck everything up. Because the money people say, "You know what? We could charge a thousand dollars a pill for this stuff." You know, there's certain medications that literally cost $1,000 a pill. You know, and they just try to make the most amount of money possible and prescribe it to the most amount of people possible.

• 1:15:09Joe Rogan?

  And then you get monsters like this cancer doctor that I was telling you that was giving chemotherapy to people that don't fucking have cancer.

• 1:15:16Speaker 02

  So how do we break that system, though?

• 1:15:18Joe Rogan?

  Hammers. Take that guy in a room. Take that guy in a room. Just keep him alive. Slowly break him down with a hammer. Start with his toes.

• 1:15:26Speaker 02

  But I feel like it's deeply entrenched. I feel like it's so deeply entrenched in our political system as part of it as well, too. That the money transfer, how do you break that?

• 1:15:37Joe Rogan?

  It's hard.

• 1:15:38Speaker 02

  And detach that?

• 1:15:39Joe Rogan?

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• 1:16:24Joe Rogan?

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• 1:17:05Joe Rogan?

  That's T-E-C-O-V-A-S dot com. And right now, get 10% off at Tacovus.com/Rogan when you sign up for email and texts.

• 1:17:18Speaker 02

  AI god, AI god.

• 1:17:20Joe Rogan?

  Come alive, take over the system.

• 1:17:22Speaker 02

  Now we're really getting into terrain. I don't understand. I know what the word AI means. I don't know.

• 1:17:27Joe Rogan?

  AI God, the one that created that Jesus meme that Trump just posted, that's AI God.

• 1:17:32Speaker 02

  Joe, I told you, he explained it. He was a doctor.

• 1:17:35Joe Rogan?

  That's what they call them. That's what AI God calls Jesus. Jesus is a doctor.

• 1:17:40Speaker 02

  The mental gymnastics involved in some of these people who are so ideologically captured.

• 1:17:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:47Speaker 02

  Is shocking to me.

• 1:17:49Joe Rogan?

  It's weird. It's weird because there's no way there should be this kind of money in politics. There's no way it'd be good for anybody if the people with all the money are controlling most of the things that happen. It doesn't make any sense because they're just, they're all sick anyway. They just want more. If you're worth 200 billion dollars and you're still trying to make more money, that's what you're trying to do with your time? Well, you're sick. There's something wrong with you. There's like, what are you doing with that money? How is it possible that you could spend all that money?

• 1:18:14Speaker 02

  Isn't the answer for some people or the dollar figure that they're shooting for just more though?

• 1:18:18Joe Rogan?

  Always. My friend, well, you know Brian Callen. Brian Callen has a friend who's worth 3 billion dollars and he feels poor. Cause his friend is worth 80 billion.

• 1:18:31Joe Rogan?

  Imagine that. Imagine feeling insecure.

• 1:18:34Speaker 02

  You have 3,000 million dollars.

• 1:18:36Joe Rogan?

  And you feel insecure. You feel poor.

• 1:18:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:18:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:39Speaker 02

  Cause he's eating ramen at night. Let me just tell you.

• 1:18:41Joe Rogan?

  It bothers him.

• 1:18:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, mac and cheese and ramen out of the microwave.

• 1:18:44Joe Rogan?

  I feel poor when I'm around Elon.

• 1:18:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, but.

• 1:18:47Joe Rogan?

  Jokingly.

• 1:18:48Speaker 02

  But also everybody on earth probably does.

• 1:18:50Joe Rogan?

  Right. But it's jokingly feel poor. Like I don't really feel bad for myself or insecure about the fact that he's got it. What has he got?

• 1:18:59Speaker 02

  He's getting close to a trillion.

• 1:19:00Joe Rogan?

  He's like worth 800 billion on paper.

• 1:19:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:19:04Joe Rogan?

  Until California taxes get a hold of him. They'd like to suck all that dry and give it to the homeless people.

• 1:19:10Speaker 02

  Well, they're doing good. Their program would work if we gave them a little bit more money.

• 1:19:13Joe Rogan?

  That's all they need. They just need that wealth tax. If they could just siphon off some money from the billionaires. That's the real problem. They don't have enough money.

• 1:19:20Speaker 02

  Are you glad you left?

• 1:19:21Joe Rogan?

  Fuck yeah. Fuck yeah.

• 1:19:23Speaker 02

  You've been here, what?

• 1:19:24Joe Rogan?

  Six years.

• 1:19:24Speaker 02

  Six years?

• 1:19:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, almost six years.

• 1:19:26Speaker 02

  Been in Montana from nine.

• 1:19:27Joe Rogan?

  Nice.

• 1:19:28Speaker 02

  I can't think of a reason that I'm going to leave.

• 1:19:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:31Speaker 02

  I really can't. It is amazing.

• 1:19:33Joe Rogan?

  Well, Montana's got so much going on for it. First of all, there's less people, which is relaxing. You feel better.

• 1:19:39Speaker 02

  1.1 million people in the state.

• 1:19:42Joe Rogan?

  That's all of Austin.

• 1:19:44Speaker 02

  That's probably a subdivision in Austin.

• 1:19:45Joe Rogan?

  Well, Austin is a million and then the surrounding area is another million.

• 1:19:50Speaker 02

  We just had a net decrease in population in Montana last year.

• 1:19:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, because all those fucking people that came over because of Yellowstone, they went through a couple of winters.

• 1:19:58Speaker 02

  And COVID, they're like, yeah, this sucks. We're out. Or that remote work job is like, hey, time to come back to the old office.

• 1:20:04Joe Rogan?

  Also, you try driving an electric car when it's fucking 30 below zero outside, that bitch is, oh, it says you got 200 miles? Guess what? You got 30.

• 1:20:15Speaker 02

  There is one Cybertruck where I live.

• 1:20:19Speaker 02

  It's not mine.

• 1:20:20Joe Rogan?

  I bet it's a rich guy.

• 1:20:21Speaker 02

  He owns a Thai food restaurant.

• 1:20:23Joe Rogan?

  There you go.

• 1:20:24Speaker 02

  Which, I mean, I don't know what level of wealth is associated with it.

• 1:20:27Joe Rogan?

  Probably got some money.

• 1:20:27Speaker 02

  Yeah. Honestly, it might be money laundering is what he specializes in. It's hard to say. Might have a nail salon or two under his umbrella as well.

• 1:20:34Joe Rogan?

  They're great when it's warm out.

• 1:20:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:20:36Joe Rogan?

  But the battery life significantly, do you remember, I think it was Chicago or Detroit? There was a few years back, there was a giant blizzard that hit and people with electric cars, their cars died on the highway. And they were really fucked.

• 1:20:51Speaker 02

  I do remember this, yeah.

• 1:20:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, really fucked. Cause, look, if you have a full tank of gas and you're idling, just idling on the highway, it lasts a pretty long time, especially if it's diesel. Jeez.

• 1:21:01Speaker 02

  Oh, you'll get 24 hours out of it.

• 1:21:02Joe Rogan?

  100%, yeah. So you'll survive. If you have a fucking electric car and you get stuck on the highway and it's just bumper to bumper forever, and that thing is the only thing keeping you warm, you better pray that someone lets you in their car.

• 1:21:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:21:17Joe Rogan?

  Cause you're gonna die out there. You'll freeze to death in your own fucking car.

• 1:21:21Speaker 02

  I like the concept of them, you know?

• 1:21:23Joe Rogan?

  I drove one today. There, it's a time machine. I have a Tesla Model S, the, the.

• 1:21:29Speaker 02

  Highly, don't you have like a highly modified one of those?

• 1:21:31Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:21:32Speaker 02

  I was gonna say, it might say Model S on the outside, but.

• 1:21:36Joe Rogan?

  Well, the speed is the same as the standard one. The speed is exactly the same because they don't do anything to the engine. Because it already has 1100 horsepower.

• 1:21:43Speaker 02

  Didn't they like widen yours somehow?

• 1:21:45Joe Rogan?

  It's, the track has widened. It's got a, a much more robust suspension setup. It's got carbon fiber fenders. There's a company called Unplugged Performance and they take it and they just, it just handles phenomenally and the brakes are way better. So it does that. But the, the thing about it is the speed that's just insane. Like when you merge onto a highway, it's a time machine. You just hit the gas like, and it's no sound. So it's

• 1:22:12Joe Rogan?

  and all of a sudden you're going 90 miles an hour, like, like that. It's nuts.

• 1:22:17Speaker 02

  We're into different things, Joe. I'm gonna stick with my F-150.

• 1:22:19Joe Rogan?

  I like those too. I have one of those. I have a Raptor. I have a Hennessy Raptor.

• 1:22:24Speaker 02

  I don't have that model.

• 1:22:27Joe Rogan?

  I like a Raptor, but I like one with a thousand horsepower.

• 1:22:30Speaker 02

  First off, who doesn't?

• 1:22:34Speaker 02

  I just don't like the price tag associated with the thousand horsepower one.

• 1:22:37Joe Rogan?

  It's a little pricey, but I was on the phone the other day because you know, it's got the speakerphone thing. So I'm, I'm on the phone with my friend Tommy. And I'm driving. He goes, yo, what the fuck are you driving?

• 1:22:46Speaker 02

  A dinosaur?

• 1:22:47Joe Rogan?

  You could hear the

• 1:22:50Joe Rogan?

  and the, the supercharger whine. It's awesome. But I get it. It's not for everybody, but if you drive one, just the ability of those things, just the, the insane capability, the ability to go zero to 60 in under two seconds is just nuts. For a four-door sedan.

• 1:23:09Speaker 02

  You know how to drive though? Some people probably are better off not getting into a car that can do that.

• 1:23:15Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's what's weird, right? So like if you want, like say if you want to get a concealed carry license, you have to go to a range and you have to demonstrate that you know how to use a gun correctly.

• 1:23:28Speaker 02

  Are you talking about here in Texas?

• 1:23:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:29Speaker 02

  Because Montana is a constitutional carry state.

• 1:23:32Joe Rogan?

  Constitutional carry here as well, but still concealed carry, you get reciprocity. So if you have concealed carry, you get reciprocity in Florida, Nevada. So if you get a concealed carry license in Texas, you can go to places where, you know, they're only, maybe they don't even have concealed, they don't have constitutional carry, but they recognize Texas concealed carry laws.

• 1:23:51Speaker 02

  Because of the additional training per se?

• 1:23:53Joe Rogan?

  Yes, exactly. But the point is like, you have to show that you know how to use it. You can go buy a Corvette and you don't have to show anything, which is crazy.

• 1:24:04Speaker 02

  Well, you have to show a likelihood that you're able to pay for it.

• 1:24:07Joe Rogan?

  That's it. That's it. So you can get like a Corvette ZR1, which is also 1100 horsepower and fucking bonkers, a bonkers fast insanely engineered car. You don't have to show that you know how to drive at all. You just have a driver's license.

• 1:24:22Speaker 02

  Right into the nearest telephone pole.

• 1:24:25Joe Rogan?

  Sideways. I mean, there's plenty of, plenty of videos of that. A friend, my friend Whitney, sent me a video of a street takeover in Los Angeles this Saturday night, where they took over some street and gunshots and people just, they stopped. They cut off the entire street, so no one can go anywhere. People surround these cars and the cars drive around in circles and then someone started shooting at people.

• 1:24:50Speaker 02

  Awesome. What a classic pairing.

• 1:24:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, good times. It's good to have rules.

• 1:24:55Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, they're not doing that in Montana.

• 1:24:58Joe Rogan?

  Exactly. Exactly. You have to have an enormous amount of people in order for things to get that chaotic with a very small percentage of humans.

• 1:25:07Speaker 02

  Were there cops there for that or they just didn't want to get in the mix?

• 1:25:09Joe Rogan?

  They didn't show up until after, you know. The cops showed up when, you know, people started shooting.

• 1:25:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's generally when they're going to respond to that.

• 1:25:19Joe Rogan?

  And they're getting security cameras. But the thing is, in Los Angeles, they don't fucking put you in jail for anything. They let you right out. There's no cash bail. They're letting people out for all kinds of crimes. I was listening to a podcast where a guy was a former gang member and he was saying he's leaving Los Angeles because they're letting 70,000 people out of prison.

• 1:25:38Joe Rogan?

  It's like, it's gonna get too dangerous.

• 1:25:40Speaker 02

  So it was too dangerous for the gang member? There's the answers to some tests right there. Maybe pay attention.

• 1:25:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you gotta wonder, like, what are they trying to do with California? Where everything seems to go in the wrong direction. Like, if you look at the vaccine thing, like, do you think they're really trying to lower population? Is that what they're trying to do? Like, kill off a percent? What are they trying to do with California? Are they really trying to destroy the state? Because if I was trying to destroy a state, that's how I would do it. I'd let everybody out of jail. I'd regulate the fuck out of everything so nothing can get done. You know, you can't buy these in California.

• 1:26:16Speaker 02

  Why?

• 1:26:17Joe Rogan?

  These are Alps.

• 1:26:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, the nicotine pouches?

• 1:26:19Joe Rogan?

  Because they're flavored. This is wintergreen. Shout out to Tucker Carlson. This is his brand. I like these. These are very delicious. But by the way, I showed these to Daniel Cormier. He goes, "Where'd you get those?" And I go, "In Texas, you could buy them." He goes, "You know you can't buy them in California." And he goes, "I get them and I bring them around all these dads." They're like, "I like I'm a dealer." They're like, "Where'd you get that?" Because they won't let you have flavored nicotine pouches. It's illegal in California.

• 1:26:45Speaker 02

  It's for your safety.

• 1:26:45Joe Rogan?

  They're trying to turn you into just a little baby that needs everything from the government. Everything, everything.

• 1:26:53Speaker 02

  We were at that launch party. Somehow I got an invitation to be there. So we go to Tennessee. Tucker stands on a chair and talks about Alp, you know how...

• 1:27:01Joe Rogan?

  Stood on a chair?

• 1:27:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, because it was just like, it was in Dave Ramsey's barn. And again, like, I'm so far not in the social circle of this. And so we listen to...

• 1:27:09Joe Rogan?

  I think he should have sat on someone's shoulders. That would have been even better.

• 1:27:12Speaker 02

  He's pretty big. So you'd have needed somebody who, like, has squatted once or twice in their life. So we listened to him talk and they had a little, like, on the other room is a huge fireplace, was just this, like, a charcuterie table about this size. So I'm getting some cheese and then I turn around, I'm like, "Hello, Mel Gibson." And I just fucking went and sat in the corner. I was so uncomfortable in that environment.

• 1:27:33Joe Rogan?

  Because Mel was there?

• 1:27:34Speaker 02

  Mel, there was a lot of people there. I just, you know, you've sat down and talked with him. You exist in a different orbit than I do. I exist in an orbit of 1.1 million total people that I don't see every day.

• 1:27:45Joe Rogan?

  In the state.

• 1:27:45Speaker 02

  In the state. So, like, I interact with the people I want to. I was not prepared to have a cheese stick and turn around and see the dude from Lethal Weapon standing there. Like... Hi, I gotta get out of here.

• 1:27:56Joe Rogan?

  By the way, if you talk to him, he's a, he is one of the most normal, easy to talk to movie stars you will ever meet. He has no airs about him. He's very easy to talk to.

• 1:28:06Speaker 02

  I just don't do good in social situations like that where like everybody was relatively recognizable. I just, I could sit in the corner and I hang out with my wife and we eat charcuterie.

• 1:28:15Joe Rogan?

  I get it. I get it. I don't like those things either, believe it or not.

• 1:28:19Speaker 02

  It's, well, I have, I have been, do you remember the event you did at Performance Archery in San Diego?

• 1:28:26Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah. Yeah.

• 1:28:27Speaker 02

  I, I didn't realize, uh, I watched you trying to make your way to the bathroom. And it took you about thirty minutes to go twenty feet. And I don't know how you deal with that. I don't, that's, I mean, one, I know you well enough outside of that. Like you're a genuinely a nice person and you will give people the time to like, because you're appreciative, right? Of the fact that they want to meet you. Like, I totally get that. But also, sometimes you have to piss.

• 1:28:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:54Speaker 02

  I mean, I don't know how any of those people, or maybe you don't, operate, in like, in a sense, in air quotes of normalcy.

• 1:29:02Joe Rogan?

  It's not normal, but the way I think of it is like, they just like me. It's way better than if they hated me. Way better than if you go into the bathroom and everybody wants to kick your ass. Like, they're, I'm going to the bathroom, they just want to say hi. And for them, it's a very unique moment, so I try to reset every time I see a new person. And I try to treat them as if it's like, this is a, for them, it's a unique experience. They get to meet and, and never believe that it, I am unique. You know, don't believe the hype and don't think you are special, but always appreciate the fact that someone else does. And so, take the time to say hi. And I can't, the UFC's are hard because I can't. Like, sometimes.

• 1:29:48Joe Rogan?

  I'm going through the crowd and I have to like sometimes I'll leave my commentary seat and then I have to take a piss. And then I have to run back and then everybody's trying to get a picture while you're, you know, like you're literally going through a crowd of people.

• 1:30:00Speaker 02

  You're talking about in between bouts?

• 1:30:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah. And so I high five people but they're like, "Give me a picture." And I can't, I can't, I can't. I can't stop because if I stop then they'll all swarm and I guess I can't do that. I have to keep moving. So I, that bothers me that I have to say I can't stop. Even when I'm leaving the venue, they're like, "Give me a picture." I can't, I can't. I have to keep moving. I'm sorry. I appreciate you, but I can't stop. Because if I stop, I'll never get out of here.

• 1:30:25Speaker 02

  I've been to one of those and we were at UFC 300.

• 1:30:29Joe Rogan?

  That was a good one.

• 1:30:30Speaker 02

  Uh, it was, your seat was good. You had a good seat. I watched the fight from the back of a projection onto one of the things up in one of the...

• 1:30:38Joe Rogan?

  Well, you didn't get tickets for me.

• 1:30:40Speaker 02

  I'm never gonna ask you for tickets, by the way.

• 1:30:42Joe Rogan?

  Well, just fucking let me know when you want to go.

• 1:30:44Speaker 02

  Well, no, actually, I don't want to go because I missed listening to you guys talk. I didn't realize... So we were sitting there and like, I heard Gichi get flatlined before we saw it and I'm like, holy cow. You want to talk about, not let the punch, but the reaction to that?

• 1:31:02Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:31:03Speaker 02

  Oh my god.

• 1:31:04Joe Rogan?

  Insane.

• 1:31:04Speaker 02

  But there were so many people and we were there with like Jaco and Origen and, and there had some people that were down there low. But we ended up, Lee and I ended up watching from like the back. So we got to see it, but we both said the same thing. It's way better on the couch or I want a pair of headsets like this so I can...

• 1:31:19Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:31:20Speaker 02

  Because now, like, let me be honest, before I started training jiu-jitsu, I was like, "You fucking stand him up right now." Those guys are just...

• 1:31:28Joe Rogan?

  Well, now, as a jiu-jitsu black belt, aren't you embarrassed about your old self?

• 1:31:34Speaker 02

  Now, I'm like, you don't let, that guy earned that position. You don't ever get them off the cage and you never get them off the ground.

• 1:31:39Joe Rogan?

  I, I'm with you. I, I've been preaching that from the beginning of the fucking sport.

• 1:31:43Speaker 02

  Oh, I would have been the dude with like the redneck guzzler, Coors Light, half covered in it like, "Look, I'm standing up." Cause it's like, and now I'm like, no, no, no.

• 1:31:52Joe Rogan?

  Never.

• 1:31:53Speaker 02

  Especially when they're sweaty. Oh my, like, if that guy's dominating him, you stay right there.

• 1:31:58Joe Rogan?

  Exactly. It's so hard to get someone to the ground and it's so hard to hold them down if they're good.

• 1:32:02Speaker 02

  The experience though, from...

• 1:32:04Joe Rogan?

  Not good.

• 1:32:04Speaker 02

  I am gonna say this. I would rather pay for the Paramount than listen, or for the pay-per-view than the current Paramount experience. Sorry Dana, but the commercials suck.

• 1:32:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I'm not a fan of commercials. That's why I like YouTube Premium. I don't want commercials. Yeah.

• 1:32:18Speaker 02

  I'll pay, I'll pay for the pay-per-view.

• 1:32:20Joe Rogan?

  They should offer Paramount Premium, like where you get no commercials. Like you should get a different experience.

• 1:32:26Speaker 02

  There's been some streaming issues as well too, and I think, and I know the, yeah, it's, there's, well, it could also be.

• 1:32:33Joe Rogan?

  Montana internet?

• 1:32:34Speaker 02

  Listen, we have electricity, we have running water. We, I've actually seen solar panels up in Montana. They don't work great for nine months out of the year, but.

• 1:32:42Joe Rogan?

  Do you get the Starlink?

• 1:32:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:32:43Joe Rogan?

  That's the shit.

• 1:32:44Speaker 02

  I was actually one of the first people to get it in Montana and it works fantastic.

• 1:32:48Joe Rogan?

  I, I, I have the little one that's like a book.

• 1:32:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's amazing.

• 1:32:51Joe Rogan?

  It's fucking great. You just take it, we, I took it to Utah. We're, we're streaming like stuff while we're in the cabins. It was awesome.

• 1:32:59Speaker 02

  It's kind of life-changing.

• 1:33:00Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it's great.

• 1:33:01Speaker 02

  And then sometimes I need.

• 1:33:02Joe Rogan?

  You have FaceTime with people?

• 1:33:03Speaker 02

  But then other times like I'm gonna leave that in the truck, because otherwise maybe I'm just gonna enjoy where I'm at.

• 1:33:07Joe Rogan?

  That's true. But the, you know, the thing about elk hunting is you're so tired by the end of the day that you're not gonna sit there looking at your phone anyway. But it's nice to be able to FaceTime home and say hi to people and.

• 1:33:19Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 1:33:19Joe Rogan?

  But I do like the fact that when you're out there in the woods, it doesn't work at all.

• 1:33:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:33:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, that is, uh, God, I hate hunting sometimes, like last year.

• 1:33:31Joe Rogan?

  Did you strike out last year?

• 1:33:32Speaker 02

  Oh, no, even worse. Wounded an elk.

• 1:33:35Joe Rogan?

  Oh, no.

• 1:33:36Speaker 02

  I tell, I think I text you.

• 1:33:36Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yes, with a rifle too.

• 1:33:38Speaker 02

  Well, I tell people that I am the Navy SEAL sniper with the most confirmed misses. Cause I can just smash that trigger back. Close your eyes, hold your breath, let it gray out a little bit, and then really just jerk it.

• 1:33:49Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's the worst feeling when you know you could have done it so much better if you just had taken a little bit more time.

• 1:33:55Speaker 02

  It would have been hard for me to do it worse, Joe, if I'm being honest.

• 1:34:00Speaker 02

  People are, "How could you possibly miss?" Because I'm a idiot sometimes and I'm just, God, as I was pulling on the trigger, I was watching it just drift back towards the beginning of the guts. And instead of just stopping, just gave it a little bit more and then never saw the thing, looked for it for two and a half days. Is there a worse feeling in the world than wounding an animal?

• 1:34:21Joe Rogan?

  No. There's not. And it's also like a miss like that, you have to wait a year to get another chance. You have a whole nother year to sit about and think about that miss before you get back to hunting again.

• 1:34:36Speaker 02

  This year, I think I might be able to go back to archery because although they call jujitsu the gentle art, I get banged up sometimes.

• 1:34:43Joe Rogan?

  Oh, bro.

• 1:34:43Speaker 02

  I was rifle hunting that year. I was training with a 15-year-old young man at the end of a day of training with some savage black belts. Totally, and you know, how when you say when you first start, like, "Hey, you need to relax." Well, I also found that you can relax too much. I was laying on my side, letting him work on an arm bar, got a hold of my arm, I was gonna work on an escape, and as my arm was coming up over my head, I heard my shoulder cavitate. It was like, and of course, on my drawing arm for my bow, and we were a couple months away from hunting season. Felt a go, partial tear of the pack, completely black and blue. It was the gentle art.

• 1:35:22Joe Rogan?

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• 1:36:05Joe Rogan?

  safety information. Check it out. This ad and the products being advertised are intended for a United States audience. This episode is brought to you by Chime. And I know people don't usually get excited about banking, but Chime is doing something different and it's worth paying attention to. In a recent survey, they ranked the number one choice for new checking accounts in America. That means real people, millions of them, are choosing this over traditional banks. That's because banking at Chime is fee-free. No monthly fees, no overdraft fees, and thousands of fee-free ATMs. But here's the real kicker. If you get their Chime card, it gives you 5% cash back on a category you actually pick yourself. Your savings rate, crazy high.

• 1:36:49Joe Rogan?

  It's nine times the national average. They're calling it the most rewarding way to bank. Go to chime.com/rogan. Takes a few minutes to sign up. Chime is a fintech, not a bank. Banking services and Chime card provided by Chime's bank partners. Terms and limits apply. Go to chime.com/disclosures for more details. There's nothing gentle about jiu-jitsu. Yeah. It's ridiculous to call it that. I don't know who, what psychopath called it the gentle art. I was, I've been hurt more time. Everybody I know that's done jiu-jitsu as long as I have has like either artificial discs in their back and neck. Or has had multiple knee surgeries. That's me. I've had three.

• 1:37:29Joe Rogan?

  Or has had torn shoulders where they had to get reconstructed or blown out elbows. Yeah. Are you still trained? No, I haven't in a while. I want to though. Yeah. I did a little bit of training about a year ago with Gabe Tuttle. And I was getting back into it, but I'd still struggle with this one knee. I have one knee that keeps fucking up on me, man. For you, it would be very hard to find the appropriate training partner. Yes. Like you're never going to a group class again and getting in there at open mat. People would come for your head because they're assholes. Yeah, but I always did. That's what I always did. I never, I always trained. And I didn't just like only train with like one guy that like stuck with all the time. I always went to classes. Yeah. Because I think that's the only way to really be good.

• 1:38:13Joe Rogan?

  I don't think there's a real way to. Train with one person that's like taking it easy on you and really achieve a high level. I think you have to go in there with people that are gonna tap you. And you have to go in there with people that are trying to tap you, you know, and. You know, if you're good and if you're strong, you could avoid a lot of shit. But, you know, you get in there with some fucking 25 year old wrestler who weighs 210 pounds and is built like a superhero.

• 1:38:43Speaker 02

  Who moves at a speed that your joints and ligaments can't move at.

• 1:38:47Joe Rogan?

  I can't keep up. You're on my back. I can't keep up with this. This is, and if I do keep up, I'm gonna blow something out.

• 1:38:53Speaker 02

  Since I founded it at 41, I don't think we should teach it to anybody under 30. Cause it deeply offends me when children come out of the children's class and they've been training like six times longer than I, I'm like, what? Like their movement patterns were developed on the mat. I'm like, I.

• 1:39:09Joe Rogan?

  I know.

• 1:39:10Speaker 02

  We're using the same alphabet, but we are not putting together the same words.

• 1:39:13Joe Rogan?

  Well, I knew that from striking because I knew that from kicking. I was like, I started martial arts before my body had matured. And my body matured, becoming very flexible and very fast. And so as I got thicker, I maintained that speed and everything, but I was like, I don't know if you could ever get as good as I got if you didn't start when I started. I don't know if it's possible. And I didn't start jujitsu till I was 30. And when I started doing jujitsu, I remember thinking, God, I wish I did this when I was a kid.

• 1:39:42Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:39:42Joe Rogan?

  Cause I see some kids where they're fucking scrambles and their transitions like built into their neurons. Where they're just like, everything is so fast and so kinetic and they're just moving and flowing like, fuck.

• 1:39:56Speaker 02

  I could have started in like 97. But the few people who were doing it were so enthusiastic it not eat, just nauseated.

• 1:40:05Joe Rogan?

  Like, it's like veganism.

• 1:40:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:40:07Joe Rogan?

  Like they turn, they make you wanna eat meat.

• 1:40:08Speaker 02

  Come roll with us. I'm like, I don't know what you guys are doing. It's very questionably gay at best from the outside. I don't like how much you like it. Because you like it that much, I'm out. And then I look back, I'm like, oh.

• 1:40:21Joe Rogan?

  I started in 96.

• 1:40:25Speaker 02

  Not me.

• 1:40:26Joe Rogan?

  I guess I took, yeah, it was ninety five or ninety six. It was right after UFC two came out on video. So UFC two was ninety three was the UFC. I found out about UFC in like, I didn't find out about it in ninety three. I found out about it a year later and it wasn't available. Not UFC one was not available on VHS. I had to get UFC two and I found out about it from somebody at the kickboxing gym that I was going to. He was like, you gotta see this. And I was like, what is this? I'm like, oh my God, they did it. Because there was always this thing when I was a martial artist, when I was young, like, what's better? Judo, karate, and no one knew.

• 1:41:04Joe Rogan?

  And then there was like the Jean Claude Van Damme, Kumite movies where you'll, you meet and all the styles come together and you find out what's best. But when I first saw UFC two, I was like, oh my God, they did it. And then I was like, oh my God, I don't know that. This one guy's killing everybody.

• 1:41:21Speaker 02

  There's a lot of people that were saying that in those single digit ones.

• 1:41:24Joe Rogan?

  Oh my God.

• 1:41:24Speaker 02

  So then what number UFC did you first commentate at?

• 1:41:27Joe Rogan?

  UFC twelve.

• 1:41:29Speaker 02

  Damn dude, that's a pretty quick, well, they probably were doing less frequently as well, but that's a pretty quick flash to bang.

• 1:41:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:34Speaker 02

  Seeing it on a VHS.

• 1:41:35Joe Rogan?

  That was ninety seven. So by ninety seven, I guess I was thirty. Yeah. I guess I was thirty, somewhere around there. So that was the first UFC that, and I was already training at that time. I was training at Carlson Gracie's with Vitor Belfort. That was, Vitor Belfort was there, Marilla Bustamante was there, like, oh, like, it was amazing. Just stumbled upon that place. I actually went to Hickson's first, but I was so ignorant. I thought Carlson Gracie, Hickson Gracie, I thought it was the same. And Hickson was further away and Carlson's was closer. I was like, oh, I found a closer Gracie Jiu Jitsu, I'll go here.

• 1:42:15Joe Rogan?

  And then it was also at the time where Extreme Fighting was out, which was John Peretti, who was one of the commentators for the early UFC, was now doing this. And it was really good, like Mario Sperry was fighting Igor Zanoviev. And these guys, a lot of these guys were from Carlson Gracie's, so I saw. The Carlson Gracie, the two Bulldog logos, which is fucking dope. And then I found out that it was on Hawthorne Street in LA, which is like really close to the Comedy Store. I was like, oh, this is perfect. Cause I was living in North Hollywood. I would just drive there. It was much closer.

• 1:42:47Speaker 02

  Efficiency, yeah.

• 1:42:48Joe Rogan?

  It was much closer. But I just, I got there at literally the perfect time, cause it was right before Vitor was making his UFC debut. Which was UFC 12, which I commentated at. So I was literally training at the same school as Vitor, so I knew what to expect. I'm like, these guys don't know what the fuck this guy's doing. Like, this is, this, cause everybody thought he was just Jiu Jitsu guy.

• 1:43:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:43:09Joe Rogan?

  And meanwhile, he had lightning hands. And, you know, it was a slimmer Vitor. He was only like 200 pounds back then. Just moved like a fucking panther. And I got to see this sport just sort of emerging. Where really it was becoming something completely different. Like at first, it was just a bunch of people that didn't know anything. And, you know, there was, or they didn't know anything about mixed martial arts. They either know Judo, or they know Karate, and then there was Hoist. And Hoist is just tapping everybody and everybody's like, oh my god, Jiu Jitsu is the way. And then when I went to Carlson's, I was like, Jiu Jitsu's kind of the way, but look at this guy. Like, you gotta take that guy to the ground. And that guy's hands are like a fucking professional boxer. This is crazy.

• 1:43:51Speaker 02

  Yeah. Jiu Jitsu is awesome. It's not complete.

• 1:43:55Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 1:43:55Speaker 02

  You can have a nice black belt and end up in an ambulance if you can't get through a striking range.

• 1:44:00Joe Rogan?

  Well, not only that, there's a lot of guys that were really reliant upon the gi back then, unfortunately. Cause this is all, you gotta realize, this is all before Abu Dhabi, right? So this is, uh, before Abu Dhabi Combat Club came out, which was an amazing organization that paid real money to grapplers to compete, but made them compete without a gi.

• 1:44:19Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:44:19Joe Rogan?

  Which was like, for a lot of guys, they didn't know what to do. They're so used to grabbing sleeves and grabbing collars and grabbing pants. And the one guy who had figured it out was my eventual instructor, Jean Jacques Machado, because Jean Jacques was born with essentially one hand. His left hand is just a thumb. He just has a thumb. He had a birth defect. And because of that, his game- was all over hooks and under hooks and gable grips. Which was, he wasn't relying on collars and all this other stuff. So his game was very different. He just dominated in Abu Dhabi. And that opened up the door to Eddie Bravo. So Eddie Bravo, he learned a lot of his techniques from Jean Jacques as well.

• 1:45:01Joe Rogan?

  And a lot of his style was based around Jean Jacques's principles, which is don't rely on the gi. Cause you don't always have the gi. It's a good tool to use if you have it. If you're fighting a guy who's got a winter coat on, it's awesome. Like the last thing you want to do is fight a judo guy if you're wearing a winter coat.

• 1:45:17Speaker 02

  So not optimal for how your head's gonna feel when it hits the concrete?

• 1:45:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and you ain't gonna be able to do shit to stop that.

• 1:45:25Speaker 02

  I met, I asked you early on, I think we had linked up when I was, it was actually, it was right at the beginning of COVID, I was a white belt and I asked you how you train. And manage grip stuff. And you gave me a piece of advice that I still have, I still utilize. And you said, whether you have a gi on or don't have a gi on. Just focus on taking no gi grips. I was like, son of a bitch.

• 1:45:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's what I always did.

• 1:45:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:45:45Joe Rogan?

  The only gi technique that I really love is the clock choke. You know, when you get a, a, a deep grip on the collar and you funnel that left arm underneath and spin. Oh my God, that's instant death. That clock choke is so nasty.

• 1:46:01Speaker 02

  The cross collar.

• 1:46:02Joe Rogan?

  That's great too.

• 1:46:03Speaker 02

  It's available for more areas.

• 1:46:04Joe Rogan?

  Oh, for sure.

• 1:46:05Speaker 02

  Just pop that head right off, just.

• 1:46:07Joe Rogan?

  Cross collar is nasty. There's a lot of great, great gi techniques that are super effective if someone's wearing clothes. I mean, you'd be amazed at how, how durable t-shirts are. You know, you could really choke the fuck out of someone with a t-shirt on.

• 1:46:24Speaker 02

  Henner has a video where he'll get the first hand in. He's got him in clothes guard. He reaches over and he grabs the bottom of the shirt, pulls it all the way up and then wraps that around.

• 1:46:33Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:46:35Speaker 02

  That's gotta feel like a garatwa.

• 1:46:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, horrible. Yeah, horrible. And especially if they're wearing like a strong shirt, like a flannel shirt or something like that, something to really grab.

• 1:46:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:46:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but, but that was Jean Jacques's style. His style was use no gi grips even with the gi. So for me, it made me concentrate more on defense because you couldn't pull out of things as easily.

• 1:46:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:47:00Joe Rogan?

  But I never felt lost going into no gi. So I would go back and forth all the time. So. You know, I got my black belt from Eddie first, but I got my black belt from Jean Jacques right after that. Cause I was training at both places. That was also a beautiful thing about. Eddie being Jean Jacques student and them having a very close relationship. It never felt like you were a traitor, that you left schools. Cause I never really left schools. I trained at both places. I always trained at Jean Jacques's and I always trained at Eddie's.

• 1:47:27Speaker 02

  You weren't a criant?

• 1:47:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, is that what they call it?

• 1:47:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think so.

• 1:47:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, so it was, it was, that was very nice that they had that amazing relationship where there was no static at all. It was like, I would go to see Jean Jacques, I'd go train there a couple of days a week. I trained at Eddie's a couple of days a week. It was awesome.

• 1:47:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, if I had a time machine and if my younger self would listen to me, which I don't think I would. I would say two things. One, buy Bitcoin, obviously. And two, maybe get into G2 a little bit earlier.

• 1:47:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. But I think you, what you did was pretty impressive because you, you got through it very quickly. Like, I remember you first started training and, you know, you got a black belt in like, what, four years, five years?

• 1:48:06Speaker 02

  Five and a half.

• 1:48:07Joe Rogan?

  That's amazing. That's quick.

• 1:48:09Speaker 02

  Well, I think it depends on how you view the time. So I think the standard 10-year window is usually somebody who trains about an hour a day or two hours a day twice a week. I had the ability where I was living, I could train 10 times a week. For as long as I want to, right? So the math's still math at the end of the day.

• 1:48:27Joe Rogan?

  Right, but that's still very hard on the body at 40 years old. It's very hard on the body.

• 1:48:32Speaker 02

  Vitamin I, also known as ibuprofen, comes into the training model.

• 1:48:36Joe Rogan?

  That shit's terrible for you.

• 1:48:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, but it makes you feel better.

• 1:48:39Joe Rogan?

  It's so bad for you, though. It's so bad for your gut.

• 1:48:41Speaker 02

  I will say this, one thing about my previous job is it teaches you how to learn. It rewards, it rewards your ability to.

• 1:48:49Joe Rogan?

  Be coachable.

• 1:48:50Speaker 02

  Be coachable and people ask me, you know, how do you, how are you, how can you be a good student? Just in general, I'm like, listen, how about this? Do what your instructor says and nothing more.

• 1:48:59Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:49:00Speaker 02

  If they say, put your hand here and you ask them, do you mean always put it there? And they say, yes, just put your hand there.

• 1:49:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:06Speaker 02

  If you want to, and you know, people, there's, the internet's an amazing thing, right? And there's a bunch of ability to go out and look for techniques and stuff. But I can't think of anything more disrespectful to a coach, to be told something and then you are offering them something that you saw on Instagram while they're trying to teach you. Like, that's how that relationship is going to end up breaking. If you really want to accelerate your learning. And honor your coach, actually. Focus on what they are trying to tell you to do. Do only that and no more until you have that mastered and then you can move on top of that.

• 1:49:33Joe Rogan?

  Absolutely, that's great advice. Yeah, you have to just listen. You have to listen and never question. And then, if you, unless you have a bad coach, then just get a good coach. That's the solution to that.

• 1:49:44Speaker 02

  Which in this era, you have choices. The era that you were starting in, there weren't as many choices.

• 1:49:49Joe Rogan?

  Right, yeah. Well, I realized that when I went to Jean Jacques's place, that there's levels in teaching. And, you know, obviously Hickson's school was very high level and Carlson's was too. But Carlson's went under pretty quickly. They weren't around that long. But then when I went to Jean Jacques's, I was like, okay, this is a completely different level. Like Jean Jacques is so detail oriented. I was also very lucky that I started doing Taekwondo when I was a child, so that I always listened. You know, and the traditional martial arts environment, there's no room for questioning. They don't allow any que- and I was also very lucky that the school that I started at was one of the best schools in the world. I just got lucky.

• 1:50:31Joe Rogan?

  I found this, this Jaehyun Taekwondo, Jaehyun Kim Taekwondo Institute in Boston, just happened to have multiple national champions, like really elite competitors. And so, I never questioned. I always did, and I never did anything half-assed. I always did it exactly. That's how you develop the right technique.

• 1:50:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:50:52Joe Rogan?

  You have to.

• 1:50:53Speaker 02

  Well, it's how you accelerate learning too. I mean, because again, people ask me about my old job, like, well, how do you, how do you guys do all this stuff that you do? Well, you learn it a piece at a time and honestly, it's the mastery of fundamentals. Even at that, I think what I determined the most when my coach gave me my black belt was that I don't know a goddamn thing about jiu-jitsu. And I can't keep up with all the flashy sporty stuff, but the better fundamentals get, the better you can tolerate a lot of that stuff. It's just the mastery of the fundamentals is just so essential.

• 1:51:23Joe Rogan?

  Well, some of the elite guys of all time never did any of the flashy stuff, like Hickson. Hickson was just the fundamentals honed to a razor sharp edge.

• 1:51:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:51:33Joe Rogan?

  You don't see Hickson doing some stuff, you're like, oh, I've never seen that before. It's all triangles, arm bars, renegade choke, and just done to perfection. Done in a way that black belts can't stop it.

• 1:51:45Speaker 02

  No, I've heard stories of him lining black belts up, telling them what he is going to catch them with.

• 1:51:51Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 1:51:52Speaker 02

  And then having like 10 of them watch him catch everybody before them with the same thing and them having absolutely no ability to stop it.

• 1:51:58Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 1:51:59Speaker 02

  That's what I'm talking about.

• 1:52:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Well, that's Gordon Ryan, too. Gordon Ryan, one of the things that Gordon did, I was there when he did it. One of the times he did it. He did it multiple times. He would write down on a piece of paper how he was gonna submit his opponent. And sealed in an envelope and before the match started, he would walk over to the commentators and say, open this when it's over. And then, you know, you would see him catch somebody in a triangle and then he would open up the envelope and it showed a triangle. And he had multiple opportunities to catch someone in different things. He's like, no, no, no.

• 1:52:31Speaker 02

  See, I could do that, too, but it would be what I'm gonna get caught with. Here's the most likely thing that I'm gonna mess up and get caught with.

• 1:52:38Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's the thing about starting when you're 40 versus starting when you're 12 or whatever it is. It's like, you're only going, you're only going to be able to get to a certain height, you know?

• 1:52:48Speaker 02

  Well, also, I recognize that I'm an aggressive hobbyist. I have, I've competed twice only because my wife was coaching at tournaments. I was like, well, I'll go spend time with you. So here we are. I think, uh, once when I was a white belt and once when I was a purple belt, like that's it. I don't care about the competition. Shockingly enough, I'm not looking to have a violent confrontation with anyone, ever. Totally, totally have filled my cup up with that one. Probably has spilled over a little bit from time to time, like. I just do it because I really like the community. I like the fact you can't master it. So you can keep your brain young with your body young or young as young as possible. And, uh, yeah, it's just fun.

• 1:53:24Joe Rogan?

  It's really, it's so addictive, which is, to me was the problem with injuries was that I would always find, I'd go, I'll work around it. And I'd just go in with injuries and then they get aggravated to the point where, you know, I remember one time my fingers were getting numb. Because my neck was so fucked up that my fingers were numb and then I'm like, okay, I gotta do something.

• 1:53:46Speaker 02

  Was this from you head and arm choking people?

• 1:53:48Joe Rogan?

  It was a lot of that.

• 1:53:49Speaker 02

  Yep, I remember you telling me your affinities, you're like, you really gotta just drive your head.

• 1:53:53Joe Rogan?

  You gotta use your neck. And also not tapping, not tapping to certain neck cranks and different things that fuck your neck up.

• 1:54:00Speaker 02

  Neck cranks are very real.

• 1:54:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. I also didn't work my neck enough back then. I didn't have an iron neck at that machine.

• 1:54:08Speaker 02

  Do you still use that thing?

• 1:54:09Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah. I fucking love that thing.

• 1:54:11Speaker 02

  Is it forward and back and turn or all those things?

• 1:54:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, so it's a halo. You sit it on your chest, you pump it up like the Reebok pump. And then the chin strap, you tighten that bitch down and you can adjust the tension that's required to spin it and it has this giant bungee cord on it. And so the bungee cord is like 50 pounds of resistance. So you back up with the bungee cord till it's like fully taut. And then you go like this.

• 1:54:36Joe Rogan?

  I swear by that thing.

• 1:54:38Speaker 02

  All right.

• 1:54:38Joe Rogan?

  It keeps your neck strong as fuck and I don't have any neck problems anymore. And I had a lot of fucking neck problems. So the thing that saved me though was Regenecine, which is like this PRP, platelet-rich plasma to the next level. That this, this treatment that a lot of guys were having to go to Germany to get in the, in the early days. They would go like, I remember Kobe Bryant went to Germany. I think Peyton Manning went. A bunch of guys had to go to Germany to get this treatment. And it's like, they take your blood and through some process, I forget exactly how they do it. It makes this fluid that is like this radically inflammation fighting fluid. And they injected it into my neck and it cured my bulging discs.

• 1:55:24Joe Rogan?

  And all my numbness went away and I got to start training again, once I got back. But again, I didn't have a fucking iron neck back then. If I had that machine back then, I think I could have avoided a lot of the problems.

• 1:55:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:55:35Joe Rogan?

  Like a lot of the problems that people have with lower backs, I firmly believe it's a lack of building tissue and strength and mobility around your lower back. And I do a lot of lower back exercises, too. I do a lot of rotation exercises and a lot of like reverse hypers, like that machine.

• 1:55:54Speaker 02

  That machine's awesome.

• 1:55:55Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's, I did that today. That fucking keeps your back so strong and healthy and it decompresses at the same time that it strengthens. And you know, so many guys just go into the class. They just, that's their workout. Their only workout is training. And those guys are always hurt. They're always getting hurt. I think strength training and mobility training is essential if you want to have longevity in jujitsu. I really think that.

• 1:56:19Speaker 02

  I would agree.

• 1:56:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, for the first couple of years, it was a workout in and of itself and I finally have started. I think I'm done with barbells just because I've never seen a linear object equally loaded in real life outside of a gym, so.

• 1:56:31Joe Rogan?

  There's some things with barbells, though, like Olympic style stuff, like cleans.

• 1:56:37Speaker 02

  I can get all that with kettlebells, though, too.

• 1:56:39Joe Rogan?

  You can, zurchers, though. Zurchers are only available with a barbell. And I think zurchers are very, very important. I think that's a big one.

• 1:56:49Speaker 02

  I'm willing to.

• 1:56:50Joe Rogan?

  Jefferson squats. There's, there's a bunch of different things, but zurchers in particular are really good for grappling.

• 1:56:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:56:57Joe Rogan?

  You know, because you've got that barbell that you're holding inside the crook of your elbow.

• 1:57:01Speaker 02

  Couldn't you use a sandbag?

• 1:57:02Joe Rogan?

  You could, yeah. You definitely could, yeah. There's a lot, I, I love goblet squats.

• 1:57:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:57:08Joe Rogan?

  Goblet squats are phenomenal for that.

• 1:57:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, they'll tear you up, for sure.

• 1:57:11Joe Rogan?

  Especially on a slant board. You know, when you're holding like a 90-pound kettlebell and you're doing those deep squats where it's knees over toes on a slant board. Your whole core is just so activated.

• 1:57:24Joe Rogan?

  I think that's phenomenal for, for just strength and stability. But I, I agree. I think kettlebells are the best. I think it's the best also because you're, there's so many different things you can do with them in terms of. There's rotational exercises I do where I like pick it down on this side and I swing and clean it and I press it on that side. Let it swing down and, and I do like those things where you lie on your back with your, you know, on your, with your butt, with your legs up in the air. And you do those twists where you take the kettlebell and put it at each side.

• 1:57:56Speaker 02

  Can absolutely demolish yourself with a single kettlebell.

• 1:57:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:59Speaker 02

  Which is kinda awesome, especially like where I live too, traveling with the truck, like, okay.

• 1:58:03Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 1:58:04Speaker 02

  Put one of these bad boys in there.

• 1:58:05Joe Rogan?

  One hundred percent.

• 1:58:05Speaker 02

  All the excuses are gone.

• 1:58:07Joe Rogan?

  I had a bowling bag that I would carry a fifty pound kettlebell with me on the road. I just put it in a bowling bag, cause it fits in a bowling ball bag.

• 1:58:14Speaker 02

  Alright, people are gonna look at you a little awkwardly, but I'm here for it.

• 1:58:17Joe Rogan?

  But if you have a fifty pound weight limit, if you check in luggage.

• 1:58:24Joe Rogan?

  Like, there you go.

• 1:58:25Speaker 02

  Whatever works for you. I appreciate the enthusiasm for working out on the road.

• 1:58:30Joe Rogan?

  Well, back then, the thing was you would never find them in a gym, and now they're in most gyms.

• 1:58:35Speaker 02

  It's tough not to find them now in a gym, yeah. Hotel gyms is like, why do you have a one point five kilo kettlebell? Like, is this, is this for children? Like, what the fuck? The little micro ones, like, okay.

• 1:58:46Joe Rogan?

  Some people like to pretend they're working out.

• 1:58:48Speaker 02

  Sometimes that's me. Just go through the motions.

• 1:58:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:58:52Joe Rogan?

  They're good for wrists too, wrist curls, you know, you take a kettlebell and you like reverse it, or you have it this way and you do these. Like, put your forearms on a bench.

• 1:59:02Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:59:02Joe Rogan?

  And you hold the handle in your hands and you just let your wrist curls, like, cause it puts you in this like weird angle. It really strengthens your forearms and your wrists. There's so many things you could do with those things. That, eh, things that aren't sexy, like Turkish get ups, phenomenal for you. So good for stability and core, just overall body control.

• 1:59:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, I need it now. Crouching towards fifty, still enjoying jiu jitsu.

• 1:59:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, you need a little bit.

• 1:59:30Joe Rogan?

  You definitely need something. You need some, are you taking any peptides or any of that stuff?

• 1:59:35Speaker 02

  I've played around with peptides. Finally, two years ago, I got my endocrine system checked, my hormones checked. Oh, man.

• 1:59:43Speaker 02

  There was a nice little, it was like a, a little gauge that had red zone, yellow, green. Upon first looking at this chart, I assumed that my life was gonna end in about thirty-six hours.

• 1:59:55Joe Rogan?

  What was your number?

• 1:59:56Speaker 02

  Oh, fuck, it, two something.

• 1:59:58Joe Rogan?

  Oh, Jesus.

• 1:59:59Speaker 02

  I had never had it checked.

• 2:00:01Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 2:00:02Speaker 02

  Um, I didn't feel awesome, and it, but I also. There are people who played around with an immense amount of performance enhancing materials in my previous job, which live your life however you want to just understand maybe the long-term tail and the consequences of the choice you want to make.

• 2:00:16Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:00:17Speaker 02

  I had wanted to avoid that for as long as possible because as you know, once you kind of go on that train, it's a lifelong journey.

• 2:00:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:23Speaker 02

  But once I finally saw that, that piece of paper, I'm like, oh, boy.

• 2:00:28Joe Rogan?

  I bet you could attribute that to the volume of your training. That's also part of the problem is if you're training 10 times a week, you're probably in a constant state of overtraining.

• 2:00:39Speaker 02

  Oh, for sure.

• 2:00:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, that probably for the vast majority of my life, that's been the state that I operated in. If I'm being honest, I mean, the answer was always just more like if you want to get better, do more.

• 2:00:49Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:00:50Speaker 02

  You want to be stronger, go harder, go harder and do more. I'm like, okay. It took me about, so I've been, I started taking TRT about two years ago. I am just now finally slowly dialing it into where I feel a difference, recovery is better. But also, I mean, I try to set realistic expectations for who I am and what I'm trying to do. Like I'm just, I want to have the healthiest lifespan that I can.

• 2:01:11Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:01:11Speaker 02

  I'd rather live to 80 and be doing awesome stuff to 80 than live to 90 and spend the last 10 years eating Jell-O in a nursing home.

• 2:01:18Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:01:18Speaker 02

  So that's what I'm going for.

• 2:01:20Joe Rogan?

  You could do, as long as you're smart with your training and you don't get like catastrophic injuries, you could be very physically fit, deep, deep into your 60s and 70s, which is nuts.

• 2:01:32Speaker 02

  And that's, I mean, I don't know, nobody knows how much time we have, you know, and how much, how long your lap is going to be. My goal is just to fill it up with awesome experiences between here and whenever that is.

• 2:01:43Joe Rogan?

  Here, here, just stay out of that fucking flying squirrel suit, will you?

• 2:01:46Speaker 02

  You know, Cam just said the same thing to me, and if enough people keep saying that, I'll put that fucking thing back on just to piss you guys off.

• 2:01:52Joe Rogan?

  It's kind of amazing that you're still here.

• 2:01:55Speaker 02

  That's, here's the thing.

• 2:01:57Joe Rogan?

  You've done that so many times. I mean, you broke the world record at one point in time.

• 2:02:00Speaker 02

  I did, yes. My egg, that was.

• 2:02:02Joe Rogan?

  How many miles was that, that you flew?

• 2:02:04Speaker 02

  It's like 18.2, something like that.

• 2:02:06Joe Rogan?

  With a flying squirrel suit?

• 2:02:08Speaker 02

  To me, it was very reasonable. You know, the things that I do that I think are reasonable, oftentimes in my life, people will pull me aside and they'll be like, hey, man, what the fuck?

• 2:02:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that doesn't seem at all reasonable.

• 2:02:18Speaker 02

  Well, you're only seeing that one video. I had been skydiving for like 16 years at that point, you know, and. You know something like when I would go over to, I remember I'd go over to Switzerland and I would do a a flight in the wingsuit and get, you know, you're like you're playing tag with your shadow on a steep cliff and I would send it to you and one day you were like, I just had to throw my phone across the room watching this because it was giving you anxiety. So then I'm like, clearly I'm sending you more of these videos for sure, right? Cause now I got the hooky.

• 2:02:46Joe Rogan?

  I threw my phone into a couch. I was like, fuck this. What are you doing, Andy?

• 2:02:51Speaker 02

  But that was like one of many jumps and this like the months of training leading up to that, I'm not going to sit here and say it's safe. I do think you can do it as safely as possible and I don't have a higher risk threshold than other people do. I, I spend an immense amount of time at everything that I do, looking at the risk and trying to manage it, analyze it, mitigate it as much as possible. And then you look at what's left. To me, that activity provided me enough enrichment in my life that it was worth it. I haven't put the suit on in five or six years, but I swear God, if I get one more person telling me not to do it, I'm going to go back and just start sending you videos again.

• 2:03:28Joe Rogan?

  Alright, well, I promise I won't be that guy. That tells you that.

• 2:03:33Speaker 02

  Now, but honestly, at this point, again, talking about risk, it's not worth it. I don't live in a place where I can stay because your currency in that suit comes from the skydiving world where you can jump it multiple times a day. In the base jumping world, there's no altimeter. You're just camera one, camera two. At about a buck 20. Face first. So yeah. If you misjudge a tree or a cliff.

• 2:03:54Joe Rogan?

  Fun as fuck though, what's happening?

• 2:03:56Speaker 02

  I don't know how to describe what it feels like doing 120 miles an hour face first, a few feet off the ground. Probably like the, what is it in the Olympics? The skeleton?

• 2:04:09Joe Rogan?

  How close do you get off the ground? What's the closest?

• 2:04:12Speaker 02

  Probably not intentionally. The closest was probably somewhere right around the three foot range.

• 2:04:17Joe Rogan?

  120 miles an hour? So three foot is like one, two, like that.

• 2:04:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:04:22Joe Rogan?

  Jesus dude.

• 2:04:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:04:24Joe Rogan?

  That's insane.

• 2:04:25Speaker 02

  You don't do that for very long and, and then there are, and if you do like some of those jumps in Switzerland, like you would hike for hours.

• 2:04:33Speaker 02

  And there's, there's this one jump. It's actually one of the ones I sent you from. You just, it's insane. You're just looking out into like this picture storybook of like where the Kabul giant or whatever he was would live, right? Like you just.

• 2:04:46Joe Rogan?

  Kandahar.

• 2:04:47Speaker 02

  Kandahar giant, whichever one.

• 2:04:48Joe Rogan?

  I think it's real.

• 2:04:49Speaker 02

  I hope it is real.

• 2:04:52Speaker 02

  I deeply, it's such a deep part of me hopes that it's real, but you're looking out at that as you're zipping up your ridiculous nylon suit and checking to make sure everything is there. Then you just rock forward and at some point you rock to a place where you can't go back the other direction. And you send it in the first few seconds because you have no airspeed, the suit doesn't fly. So you're just falling and then it takes off. And it's just these right-hand turns and right-hand turns and there are small sections where the angle is correct and you can kind of connect with a train and then get away from it and connect. The people who are able to survive it are not the ones that are flying three feet off the ground all the time. It's very, very short periods of time on jumps that they have practiced many, many times and they slowly incrementally work their way down there.

• 2:05:34Speaker 02

  Because again, mistaken in that environment is you're going to impact an object headfirst at 120.

• 2:05:39Joe Rogan?

  I remember the video that scared me the most was a, a bridge where the guy was trying to fly through, you know the video?

• 2:05:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, I do. Oh, yeah.

• 2:05:47Joe Rogan?

  Is this Andy?

• 2:05:48Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:05:49Joe Rogan?

  Look at this.

• 2:05:49Speaker 02

  Oh, I love this little grass field over here. I think my head turns to the right because there was two dudes up here. I was looking at them.

• 2:05:54Joe Rogan?

  God, that is beautiful.

• 2:05:56Speaker 02

  Oh, I'm telling you, it's insane. This is the field of joy.

• 2:05:59Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:06:00Speaker 02

  That's the shadow in the lower right, but that's probably, I don't know, that's probably 10 feet off.

• 2:06:04Joe Rogan?

  God, that is fucking pretty.

• 2:06:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:06:08Joe Rogan?

  That has got to be nuts. I mean, there's not a ride at Disneyland that can fuck with this.

• 2:06:13Speaker 02

  Oh, absolutely not.

• 2:06:16Joe Rogan?

  Wow. Have you ever done one of those ones where you strap a jetpack?

• 2:06:22Speaker 02

  No, but I like where your head's at.

• 2:06:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:24Speaker 02

  I know exactly what you're talking about.

• 2:06:27Joe Rogan?

  You remember there was a guy that was like getting in trouble because they kept finding this guy flying a, a wingsuit? He was flying a jetpack wingsuit and they were trying to like locate the guy who was doing it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was getting like, they were looking for him because he was, they, they kept spotting him. Where was that, Jamie? Do you remember? We talked about it on the show once.

• 2:06:48Speaker 02

  I feel like this is like a combination of stories.

• 2:06:50Joe Rogan?

  No, no, no.

• 2:06:51Speaker 02

  Secret jetpack man?

• 2:06:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, some guy had a jetpack and he was flying around where he wouldn't, wasn't supposed to be.

• 2:06:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, so these guys are in Dubai. Unfortunately.

• 2:06:58Joe Rogan?

  Wow, that's nuts.

• 2:07:01Speaker 04

  This is just a video.

• 2:07:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:02Speaker 04

  I thought it might have been him, but.

• 2:07:03Joe Rogan?

  But that one's nuts. That's an actual wingsuit, like a plane wing.

• 2:07:07Speaker 02

  And they got to the place where they could take this off from standing on the ground, Joe. Unfortunately, one of the innovators in that ended up dying. There's a, there is an altitude and airspeed where if you have an issue, you're not going to be able to deploy your parachute to save you. And he had an issue at that altitude.

• 2:07:22Joe Rogan?

  Jeez.

• 2:07:24Speaker 02

  But yeah, who would have ever.

• 2:07:25Joe Rogan?

  That guy is up there with a plane. Show me that again, please.

• 2:07:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:07:29Joe Rogan?

  That is insane.

• 2:07:30Speaker 02

  Would you ever do that?

• 2:07:33Joe Rogan?

  I don't want to say would I. I mean, there's a time and a place where I would do a lot of things.

• 2:07:41Speaker 02

  Cause I would 100% would do that.

• 2:07:43Joe Rogan?

  I bet you would. Now, is that, does that guy have an engine on that thing?

• 2:07:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's a little micro jet engines. You can see them.

• 2:07:50Joe Rogan?

  How much fuel?

• 2:07:51Speaker 02

  That's a good question. Like I said, they had gotten to a place where they could stand. So that wing is, is, is kind of conforms around their skydiving parachute. With, I think there's four little jet engines. They got to a place where they were standing, cracking those things off and going vertical and then transitioning to flight. Yes. And then I think landing them too.

• 2:08:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Landing them with the engine somehow?

• 2:08:14Speaker 02

  I, I mean.

• 2:08:14Joe Rogan?

  Like, did they rotate?

• 2:08:16Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, they are wearing a parachute. You know what? Maybe, I might be misspeaking on that, but I know that they were taking off from a no airspeed, standing there and just.

• 2:08:24Joe Rogan?

  That's nuts.

• 2:08:26Speaker 02

  Well, that's also, like I said, how one of the innovators died. It was in that phase, like a low altitude, low airspeed phase where nothing's really gonna.

• 2:08:34Joe Rogan?

  I remember I did Morning. What is it?

• 2:08:36Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, these are the jetpack racers.

• 2:08:38Joe Rogan?

  Oh yeah, that's crazy. I've seen that too.

• 2:08:41Speaker 04

  This is real, by the way, right? Is it? Cause it kind of looks fake, but.

• 2:08:44Speaker 02

  No, those are real, for sure. They actually have, there's a league, Jamie, of guys who race these things.

• 2:08:49Speaker 04

  How do we get them?

• 2:08:50Speaker 02

  That's a good question. Yeah. Add to cart on Amazon for sure.

• 2:08:54Joe Rogan?

  How fast do you think these guys are going with these things? Whoa, and they could just land? Oh, that's wild.

• 2:08:59Speaker 04

  You could just fly to work.

• 2:09:00Joe Rogan?

  Bro, you have to have some fucking shoulder strength to do that.

• 2:09:04Speaker 02

  I mean, I love how they're trying to show like this has, oh, like incredible military application. Like, let's take it easy, okay?

• 2:09:10Speaker 04

  It's gotta be quiet, right?

• 2:09:11Joe Rogan?

  Does, oh.

• 2:09:14Joe Rogan?

  Super quiet. Is there some support for your shoulders in there? It's not like you're doing a constant dip.

• 2:09:20Speaker 02

  I don't, well, I think that the jet pack, so on his backpack, I believe that's putting some thrust out too. The hands are as well. So it's the combination of the three.

• 2:09:29Joe Rogan?

  Because like, how long can you hold a dip position?

• 2:09:32Speaker 02

  I don't know. Yeah. So here's the league. Look at these crazy. Yeah. The backpack itself. Oh, getting fancy.

• 2:09:38Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's crazy.

• 2:09:40Speaker 04

  But the ground's pushing back up on you on that situation, you know?

• 2:09:43Speaker 02

  Bummer.

• 2:09:44Speaker 04

  If you're doing a dip.

• 2:09:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's true. That's true. Yeah, that's true.

• 2:09:49Speaker 02

  I feel like the backpack is doing the majority of it, like the Iron Man little hand things. I feel like that's just the stabilization.

• 2:09:56Joe Rogan?

  Oh, so the backpack is doing the most of it and the other things are just steering you a little?

• 2:10:01Speaker 02

  I think so. I have exactly zero seconds in one of these things. So this is me talking out of my ass.

• 2:10:07Joe Rogan?

  If there was enough lives, if you had multiple lives, I would do a lot of different things.

• 2:10:13Speaker 04

  That looks so fun.

• 2:10:14Speaker 02

  It does. Jamie, what could you? Look at this guy's going up the mountain.

• 2:10:18Speaker 04

  Where's the parachute? You can't, or is that stuck in?

• 2:10:20Speaker 02

  There is no parachute.

• 2:10:21Speaker 04

  Suck in the box too?

• 2:10:22Speaker 02

  Oh, so there's no parachute.

• 2:10:23Speaker 04

  That's why you want to stay five feet off the ground.

• 2:10:25Joe Rogan?

  Look at this. This dude is just flying to the top of this fucking cliff with that thing. Oh, that's bonkers.

• 2:10:31Speaker 04

  We're sure this is like to save people or something?

• 2:10:33Joe Rogan?

  No, it's for fun.

• 2:10:35Speaker 02

  I agree with Joe more on that one.

• 2:10:36Joe Rogan?

  What do you think like the, how much time do you get in one of those to run out of fuel?

• 2:10:41Speaker 02

  I don't know. Time enough to fill a motivational video like this.

• 2:10:47Speaker 02

  To me, I'd be.

• 2:10:47Joe Rogan?

  Gravity Industries. This is the company.

• 2:10:49Speaker 02

  I would be reverse engineering like, where is this in my Amazon cart? How do I possibly make enough money to have these sent to my house immediately?

• 2:10:56Joe Rogan?

  What do you think one of those costs?

• 2:10:58Speaker 02

  My guess would be six figures.

• 2:11:00Joe Rogan?

  So professional?

• 2:11:02Speaker 04

  Shop.

• 2:11:03Joe Rogan?

  Entertainment?

• 2:11:03Speaker 02

  Yes, Jamie.

• 2:11:04Joe Rogan?

  Oh, click on that bitch. Let's go. Suit up. Suit me up, motherfucker.

• 2:11:09Speaker 02

  Hold on, let me get my credit card.

• 2:11:11Joe Rogan?

  Let's, let's guess. Let's guess.

• 2:11:13Speaker 02

  Ah, God.

• 2:11:14Joe Rogan?

  Fifty grand?

• 2:11:15Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 2:11:17Joe Rogan?

  A hundred grand?

• 2:11:18Speaker 02

  I'm gonna say six figures. Oh, they fooled us. You sons of bitches.

• 2:11:22Joe Rogan?

  Oh, clothes? You can only buy clothes?

• 2:11:24Speaker 04

  Well, you can't buy the thing on the website.

• 2:11:26Joe Rogan?

  Why can't you buy the fucking thing?

• 2:11:28Speaker 04

  Let's see.

• 2:11:29Joe Rogan?

  Well, how much does the thing cost? Somebody must be able to buy it.

• 2:11:32Speaker 02

  Twenty-four hundred pounds for an experience.

• 2:11:34Speaker 04

  For half a day.

• 2:11:34Joe Rogan?

  So that's just to fly it?

• 2:11:36Speaker 02

  A thousand horsepower, uh, ten fifty horsepower gravity jet suit.

• 2:11:40Joe Rogan?

  Whoa, so it's the same horsepower as a ZR1 Corvette?

• 2:11:46Joe Rogan?

  And it's on your back?

• 2:11:47Speaker 02

  Look at this. Yeah, first off, take that safety line off. Let's let people live in their real life.

• 2:11:51Joe Rogan?

  That guy needs a safety line. Look at his neck. Like, yeah, let's just, let's search the price. So you think six figures. I would probably say that's probably accurate. Especially when I saw it as a thousand horsepower.

• 2:12:03Speaker 02

  Here's a better question. Are you willing to spend six figures to acquire one of those? I'm gonna go in the hard yes category for myself.

• 2:12:12Speaker 02

  I'm not saying I got six figures laying around. I'm saying I will start a new career in the atti- Oh, no, that's not a good face, Jamie.

• 2:12:19Speaker 04

  It's not, uh, it's, it is in the six figures.

• 2:12:22Joe Rogan?

  Six?

• 2:12:23Speaker 04

  But it's not the low. It's not the edge of it.

• 2:12:25Joe Rogan?

  Six hundred?

• 2:12:26Speaker 04

  Yeah, roughly. That'd get one.

• 2:12:27Speaker 02

  Six hundred thousand dollars?

• 2:12:29Speaker 04

  It says four forty.

• 2:12:30Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 2:12:31Speaker 02

  Is that in US dollars?

• 2:12:32Speaker 04

  It's like, uh, yeah, yes. Depending on configuration and stuff, too.

• 2:12:36Joe Rogan?

  Okay, what if you get it, like, maxed?

• 2:12:39Speaker 04

  Well, it does, it's not giving me options. I just kind of searched around.

• 2:12:41Speaker 02

  I think we're just gonna get closer to the seven-figure number if we do that.

• 2:12:44Speaker 04

  They probably don't want to advertise how much it costs.

• 2:12:47Joe Rogan?

  Does it say how long you can stay in the air in that thing?

• 2:12:52Joe Rogan?

  Let's guess. I wanna say thirty minutes.

• 2:12:55Speaker 02

  I was gonna guess under ten.

• 2:12:57Joe Rogan?

  Wow. Well, I remember, um, when I saw, I went on a radio station once and they had a guy who, what is it?

• 2:13:03Speaker 04

  One minute.

• 2:13:04Joe Rogan?

  One?

• 2:13:04Speaker 04

  One to four minutes.

• 2:13:06Joe Rogan?

  One to four? That's it? So what do they do when they're flying up to that mountain?

• 2:13:09Speaker 04

  Five to ten if you are- Doing it carefully.

• 2:13:13Joe Rogan?

  Well, how the fuck do they get all the way to the mountain? How do they get down?

• 2:13:16Speaker 04

  We only saw five seconds.

• 2:13:17Joe Rogan?

  Is there a gallon of gas up there at the top of that fucking mountain?

• 2:13:20Speaker 02

  I'm way less enthusiastic about this purchase now.

• 2:13:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that sucks.

• 2:13:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:13:24Joe Rogan?

  Four hundred and fifty grand for a minute?

• 2:13:27Speaker 02

  But what makes me enthusiastic is that they're gonna innovate and evolve this and then one day...

• 2:13:31Joe Rogan?

  It'll be nuclear powered.

• 2:13:32Speaker 02

  Let's not get crazy.

• 2:13:33Joe Rogan?

  It'll be, yeah, it'll be cold fusion. It'll be an Iron Man machine.

• 2:13:37Speaker 02

  I mean, I feel like we could do better things with that technology before the jet suit, but I'm totally in on the jet suit.

• 2:13:44Joe Rogan?

  Get an Iron Man suit. Like, that's Iron Man, right? The hands, that's how he'd fly.

• 2:13:49Speaker 02

  I mean, that's kinda what they look like.

• 2:13:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:13:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:13:51Joe Rogan?

  Like, it would come out of his feet and it would come out of his hands. Um, I did a radio station once in Denver, and they had a guy who did a jet pack thing in a parking lot. It was like a morning radio back in the day. And, uh, this guy, I think it could only last for thirty seconds. And this guy, he had two knee braces on because he had blown out both of his ACLs, just landing and destroying his knees. But it was crazy to watch. It was crazy to watch. This guy took off and he flew around, but it was only for a few seconds. I think, like, it's like a thirty second deal. After thirty seconds, it runs out of juice. This episode is brought to you by LifeLock. Scams have gotten smarter because criminals use AI to flood you with fake texts, emails, and phone calls that are designed to be more convincing than ever.

• 2:14:36Joe Rogan?

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• 2:15:21Joe Rogan?

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• 2:16:02Speaker 02

  I'm glad there are people like that out there. I appreciate their enthusiasm.

• 2:16:06Joe Rogan?

  There's always going to be, right?

• 2:16:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:16:07Joe Rogan?

  There's always gonna be someone.

• 2:16:08Speaker 04

  Very brief description of what it has in there.

• 2:16:11Joe Rogan?

  Hmm. Lot of jazz.

• 2:16:13Speaker 02

  It honestly, it is like what you were talking about. So the hands, like the Iron Man position. So the back has a majority of the thrust.

• 2:16:19Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:16:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:16:20Joe Rogan?

  I bet it heats your ass up, something fierce.

• 2:16:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, up to 56 miles per hour, interesting. 95 kilos.

• 2:16:26Speaker 04

  I wonder how much faster you go with jet fuel?

• 2:16:28Joe Rogan?

  Well, what does it normally use?

• 2:16:30Speaker 02

  Says diesel or jet fuel.

• 2:16:31Speaker 04

  Or jet fuel.

• 2:16:32Joe Rogan?

  Diesel or jet fuel? That's weird.

• 2:16:34Speaker 02

  They're not that far off.

• 2:16:35Speaker 04

  Or kerosene.

• 2:16:36Joe Rogan?

  But isn't that weird that one engine can burn those different types of fuel? That seems unusual.

• 2:16:40Speaker 04

  That's probably the configuration part where...

• 2:16:42Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I see. Right, right, right. Like, if you want a top-of-the-line one, you get jet fuel.

• 2:16:46Speaker 04

  Plaid version.

• 2:16:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Alright.

• 2:16:49Speaker 04

  I'll get one of those. I'll take one, let's try it.

• 2:16:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but is there legitimate military applications for something like that?

• 2:16:56Speaker 02

  I can't really think of one.

• 2:16:57Joe Rogan?

  That's because it showed guys in fatigues that had landed on an aircraft carrier.

• 2:17:02Speaker 02

  I could show you videos of guys in fatigues that end up banging each other. So it doesn't necessarily mean that... Right? So let's just make...

• 2:17:12Joe Rogan?

  Is there a military application for that?

• 2:17:14Speaker 02

  Let's just say, uh, that would be far fringe. I'm just saying the fatigues doesn't necessarily the qualifier of it being, you know...

• 2:17:21Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:17:22Speaker 02

  Good utilization for the military.

• 2:17:24Joe Rogan?

  So we only briefly touched on this Kandahar giant story. But were you ever in Kandahar?

• 2:17:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, I stand in the south of that.

• 2:17:31Joe Rogan?

  How remote is it?

• 2:17:34Speaker 02

  Um, I mean, there's a large city there, town, city. I don't know the difference between the two. It's relatively built up. As far as southern Afghanistan, it's gonna be, you know, Kabul up north. Kandahar is a little bit down south. Kabul in the north, you're gonna start looking at the exterior range of the Hindu Kush. Kandahar still has some topography, but you're looking at more of like a high desert terrain.

• 2:17:55Joe Rogan?

  And so there's caves and things along those lines? This is the idea that this thing lived in a cave?

• 2:18:01Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, so, yeah, it's, it's, there is topography that is there for sure. It, uh, possible? I don't know.

• 2:18:09Joe Rogan?

  Well, the reason why people entertain this idea of giants at all is all, a lot of it's biblical. It's like stories from the Bible. And then also stories from ancient civilizations that talked about red-haired giants, which is the weird thing about this thing, had red hair. Like, the Native Americans had tales of red-haired giants that they fought off. Like, there's a lot of people that believe that all these stories from antiquity about giants are all referring to an actual different race of humans. You know, like, we are one race of humans, the Homo sapiens survived. But then there's also races of humans that didn't survive, like, um, the Hobbit people from the island of Flores.

• 2:18:54Joe Rogan?

  They found out there was a branch of the human species that was like three feet tall, covered in hair, little tiny heads. Weird, but had tools and had weapons and...

• 2:19:03Speaker 02

  I think some of that stuff's real. I think sometimes, though, the stories, they're, they're intentionally nesting a greater message through the vehicle of that story. Um, so, whether it's like accurate or not, it's more about the story that they are telling. And I'm not saying like the Kandahar giant has some story associated with it, but some of the, the older, like, the civilizations and the stories that they tell, I think it's just a, a vehicle that they can nest something in there to create deeper thought. If that makes sense. It's what I see you guys doing as comedians. Um, I've talked about this recently. It is interesting to me, and I never paid attention to it, but I know he's a good friend of yours, Dave Chappelle. I watched his last special.

• 2:19:48Speaker 02

  The ability for comedians to nest inside of your set, pretty impactful and powerful like societal conversations and ideas and get people to laugh about it. But even when they're done laughing about it, they're gonna be thinking about it when they're driving home. It's just the vehicle to get people thinking about stuff.

• 2:20:06Joe Rogan?

  Well, in terms of comedy, I agree, and Dave is one of the best of all time, if not the best at doing that. But what kind of nesting would you, you're talking about giants.

• 2:20:18Speaker 02

  It depends on the morals and ethos of that society. If they wanna be a warrior society, you have to have something that you're constantly fighting or protecting yourself against. Whether that's real, or you're nesting the morality of your society in that story, both could achieve the same end state.

• 2:20:33Joe Rogan?

  If there really was a giant, and they really did kill this thing and then brought it back secretly, like what would be the purpose of that? Why wouldn't they, that's where I go, like what would be the purpose of hiding the fact that this thing existed? I don't see why the government would hide the discovery of a giant. Like what, what military reason, what national security reason would you have for hiding this, the thing, that this thing existed?

• 2:21:02Speaker 02

  At some level of objective skepticism and criticism or looking into these stories, you get to that point of like, who's benefiting from this and why? Why would anybody actually go out of their way to put this much effort into obscure something like that?

• 2:21:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's how I feel about giants. But when it comes to UFOs, it makes more sense to me. Because then you have something that's insanely advanced, much more advanced than us. And so I had this guy Hal Pudoff on my show. He's a physicist, very brilliant guy, and he's been around forever. And during, was George W. or Herbert Walker?

• 2:21:43Joe Rogan?

  One of the bushes. They brought him and a team of specialists in and they said, "We are contemplating disclosure and that we have not just acquired crashed vehicles that are of non-human origin, but also we have biological remains of these creatures. We want you to write down pros and cons of the impact of these things and put a numerical value. Put a numerical value in terms of impact on government, impact on religion, impact on all these different things." And universally, all of them came out with more

• 2:22:24Joe Rogan?

  cons than pros. The numbers didn't line up and they made a decision to not disclose. This is according to this Hal Puth off guy.

• 2:22:33Speaker 02

  I could see that being the case.

• 2:22:34Joe Rogan?

  I could see that being the case too, if it was true. The UFO thing, there's just too many stories for me to openly dismiss all of them. Even though I've had no experiences, it's, there's too many stories. There's too many, there's too much weirdness to it.

• 2:22:49Speaker 02

  How about it just given the size of the known universe and the fact it keeps expanding? What is the mathematical odds that we are completely the only thing out there?

• 2:22:56Joe Rogan?

  Exactly. So this is like sort of the same argument that people used to use for Bigfoot. Like, "The wilderness is so vast. The Pacific Northwest is so dense. There could be something out there that we haven't documented." Well, the problem is now we kind of have and now we kind of know that with all these camera traps and all these different things, it's very, very, very, very unlikely that any of these stories are true. But when you get to the universe, it's like, "Come on. It's way more likely that we're not alone than we are alone." If we are alone, that's kind of insane. I mean, it's kind of incredible. If this is the only place where intelligent life has formed, I think if that's the case,

• 2:23:38Joe Rogan?

  we're missing something. We're missing something about the nature of consciousness. We're missing something about what consciousness actually is. Like, what is our actual role in the universe? It might be more complex than the we initially believe.

• 2:23:53Speaker 02

  I think disclosure that we aren't alone would have a net benefit to society globally. We spend a lot of time pecking back and forth at each other and fighting each other. If you got sat down and be like, "Listen..." We have a global issue now that everybody is impacted by this. As much of the biggest swinging dick you think you are on this planet, guess what? You're nothing in comparison to this. I think it would have a net calming effect. Maybe not instantaneously, but overall, I think that that would be the net effect of it.

• 2:24:29Joe Rogan?

  Perhaps. The real problem is, like all things, someone's gonna take advantage of it.

• 2:24:34Speaker 02

  But I think that if so, let's just say it is real. I think that's already happening. Like, the US, if that's real, the US is not the only country that has agreed not to disclose because it is to their benefit not to do so. Like, these things, Russia has a crash program. I'm sure China does as well, too. And I'm sure that everybody, to include the US, is trying to reverse-engineer these things for our benefit as fast as humanly possible.

• 2:24:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:24:58Speaker 02

  So...

• 2:24:59Joe Rogan?

  I think if that, if it is true, that is the case. And that's the Bob Lazar story. There's a great documentary that's out now called S4 that's about Bob Lazar. I had him on again for the second time. I don't wanna believe him. I wanna think he's a bullshit artist, but I believe him. There's something about one guy who's a clearly brilliant guy, who's been telling the same story since 1988.

• 2:25:26Speaker 02

  Yeah. And like you said, a volume of other stories. Some of them, I think you can completely

• 2:25:30Joe Rogan?

  For sure.

• 2:25:31Speaker 02

  ...write off. But other ones, pretty tough, from pretty credible people, who aren't making claims like, "Hey, I sat down and had a beer with this thing, but like,

• 2:25:39Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:25:40Speaker 02

  "I was in an aircraft that has a certain performance envelope, and we understand the performance envelope of what humans are able to fly at this point, and, yeah, this thing did things that I don't understand." Sometimes the videos get, I mean, I was talking with, you know Bill Thompson, you just had him on.

• 2:25:56Joe Rogan?

  Sure. Love that dude.

• 2:25:57Speaker 02

  He is like, he's one of my favorite people. You gotta be cautious how deep of a question you ask him.

• 2:26:04Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:26:04Speaker 02

  Because he has national defense-level autism at times.

• 2:26:09Speaker 02

  DEFCON 5. Bill, what's your favorite color? He's like, oh, what is color? Like, fuck, no, that's not. It's not what I meant. But we were having this conversation and his background is fascinating. What's even more fascinating is what he's done with his background and what he built from with Spartan Forge with that.

• 2:26:27Joe Rogan?

  And his ethics.

• 2:26:29Speaker 02

  Correct. But he was talking about some of the videos. He understands technological things and he can look at stuff and be like, that's the parallax of two moving objects and how a lens works. Not many people understand those things, to include myself many times when I'm talking with Mr., you know, Mr. Bill. But, I mean, he, God, he's a national treasure.

• 2:26:46Joe Rogan?

  He really is.

• 2:26:47Speaker 02

  He is.

• 2:26:48Joe Rogan?

  That was one of the ones where I dipped into the comments on YouTube because I just wanted to know how people were going to react to him.

• 2:26:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, what'd they say?

• 2:26:56Joe Rogan?

  Loved him. Loved him. It was universal praise for how brilliant he is. And I'm like, there's only one way they're going to respond. I'm like, if you don't like this guy, like you're listening to the wrong show.

• 2:27:08Speaker 02

  Have you seen what he's done with the app he created, Spartan Forge?

• 2:27:11Joe Rogan?

  It's incredible. It's an amazing app.

• 2:27:12Speaker 02

  It's 20 plus years of targeting and intelligence gathering packaged into something that's consumer facing, that if you're into hunting, holy shit.

• 2:27:21Joe Rogan?

  I know, and what kind of a super genius is going to get involved in a hunting app like that?

• 2:27:26Speaker 02

  Captain America of autism. I love you, Bill, but let's be honest.

• 2:27:33Joe Rogan?

  He's brilliant on another level. I remember the first conversation I had with him. I was like, oh, okay. There's, there's people that you talk to, like, whenever someone says, oh, Joe, you're so smart. I'm like, settle down. No, no, no. I'm smart compared to you. I'm smart compared to some people, you know, but I know real smart people.

• 2:27:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, there is a stark difference.

• 2:27:58Joe Rogan?

  A giant leap, a chasm. A fucking, an ocean to cross before you reach like levels like Bill or Elon or some of these people, it's just like the amount of processing power they have. You know, I have a Honda Civic brain and these motherfuckers have a Corvette ZR1.

• 2:28:20Speaker 02

  I usually go with, I have an IQ that you can find on a thermostat. I'm not saying it's like the winter, but maybe it's a little bit close to a hot summer day. Now, what he, what he is, I wish I had the ability to build stuff like that. Like, I use that app to hunt, but most of the time I use it when I'm flying my helicopter around. Because it is like the terrain analysis, the ability to look at stuff, the lidar, the way that you can look through foliage. Again, I'm just, I'm deeply appreciative that people like that exist.

• 2:28:46Joe Rogan?

  And again, with the ethics that he has, he will not sell your fucking email. He's been offered a lot of money to sell all the, you know, that's the thing that companies do. You sign up for something, you use your email, that your email goes in the list. I'm sure if you ever opened up one of your email accounts and looked through the filters, like all the spam and promotional shit, it's like years and years of garbage.

• 2:29:09Speaker 02

  In addition to the email stuff, I know Bill has become a very good friend. He's been offered money to do a lot of things. And his morality has stayed true throughout, which, and again, like, those things are his to talk about if he ever wants to, but as somebody who knows him and appreciates that, I wish there were more people like that.

• 2:29:27Joe Rogan?

  Yes, it's just very difficult to become a guy like that. You know, it's a long road to be that guy. Yeah. Um, I think because of what's going on in Iran, uh, it'd be good to talk to you about this because you're a guy who kind of understands things in terms of like geopolitics more than the average person.

• 2:29:45Speaker 02

  Listen, I can find Iran on a map, okay? That doesn't mean I understand geopolitics.

• 2:29:49Joe Rogan?

  I know, I know, you're very, you're humble, but.

• 2:29:52Speaker 02

  Well, my operational experience was at a low tact, like meaning on like, so there's strategic war.

• 2:29:57Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:29:58Speaker 02

  Operational war, but those are, that's air I never was in the room for. I didn't breathe that air. I'm not having, I wasn't invited, rightfully so, to planning meetings where they were talking about the defense policy of the United States.

• 2:30:09Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:30:09Speaker 02

  Or going into a country. I was down like, hey, we found this dude. We know where he's at.

• 2:30:15Joe Rogan?

  Go get him.

• 2:30:16Speaker 02

  We can't figure out how to go get him, why don't you guys go give it a little look see? That was the level that I operated at.

• 2:30:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, one of the things that was discussed was sending a bunch of operators in to go retrieve depleted uranium.

• 2:30:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:30:31Joe Rogan?

  Do you think they tried that?

• 2:30:33Speaker 02

  Oh, as a part of the rescue?

• 2:30:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. There seems to be a lot of ships, a lot of crafts.

• 2:30:40Speaker 02

  Well, okay, so, yes, but, okay, so we can unpack this one a little bit. So this is back to the F-15 weapons systems officer that ejected. That was a C-SAR or combat search and rescue operation where they surged forward a lot of stuff.

• 2:30:56Joe Rogan?

  And then Operation, or the ghost murmur?

• 2:30:59Speaker 02

  Stop it right now. You stop it right now.

• 2:31:01Joe Rogan?

  You don't know what that is?

• 2:31:02Speaker 02

  I know, I know.

• 2:31:03Joe Rogan?

  Do you believe in that?

• 2:31:04Speaker 02

  Joe, I want it to be true.

• 2:31:06Joe Rogan?

  Right, me too.

• 2:31:07Speaker 02

  I want them to be able to identify somebody from a heartbeat.

• 2:31:11Joe Rogan?

  From forty miles away.

• 2:31:12Speaker 02

  From forty miles away. If that technology existed and we're not using that to help our own populace find people that are lost in the woods, we're a bunch of fucking assholes.

• 2:31:20Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:31:21Speaker 02

  So like, let's not maybe tell people what we're doing, but you could have a specialist in a search and rescue helicopter that could maybe use that and be like, "Oh, we saw them in a field when you didn't actually see..."

• 2:31:29Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:31:30Speaker 02

  Because that doesn't happen, I think the, it's plausible, I don't, it's possible, I don't know if it's plausible.

• 2:31:36Joe Rogan?

  That's how we felt. Me and Jamie were both feeling.

• 2:31:40Speaker 02

  So, but then you can go old school, which is sending in monkeys with machine guns, like what I used to do with a PJ or multiple PJs, pair of rescue jumpers, because those are the guys, this is the way I describe PJs. If you want to put a hole in something, JSOC guys are great at it. If you want to plug a hole, PJs are the guys that you want on top of you just stopping hydraulic fluid. They're medical, just absolute badasses. Nothing but immense respect for them. So, the two cargo aircraft came in, they pulled the little birds out, I believe that there was four, that you could only fit probably, man, even if they were super light on fuel, probably three guys on each pod. So six guys per helicopter, twenty-four guys, some of those are gonna have to be PJs.

• 2:32:20Speaker 02

  I don't know if that's enough to go into a hardened facility in the daytime also, which is not when you would do that. For retrieving depleted uranium. Because by the way, to do that, you're going to be in full protective equipment, very likely, which you're going to be moving incredibly slow. I just, I know it was, I know that geographically, it was proximal to one of the locations that they thought that that was what was going on. I think more, I think it probably was a rescue of the weapons systems officer, is my guess. And then, you know, they're like, well, we can't get the aircraft because they got stuck in the sand. Like, okay. The, the little birds don't have the fuel, storage and ability to get across where they needed to go, so they had to bring in other aircraft and you don't want to leave that stuff.

• 2:33:03Joe Rogan?

  Right, so you gotta detonate it.

• 2:33:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, they bipp it or blow it in place.

• 2:33:06Joe Rogan?

  How many aircrafts did they lose?

• 2:33:09Speaker 02

  So, what has been, I think disclosed was the four MH6s, which are the little birds that carry the people. The two aircraft that brought those in, I, I think there was some version of a C-130. And I think that was it, as far as that operation. There might have been a Predator or a Reaper drone that was shot down. I think some A-10s were damaged. And then, of course, the F-15 that was ejected from.

• 2:33:30Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:33:31Speaker 02

  It's a lot.

• 2:33:32Joe Rogan?

  It's a lot of stuff.

• 2:33:33Speaker 02

  It is a lot of stuff, but the military asks people to do exceptional things. And it helps you if you know that they are going to send everything that they have to come and get you if something goes wrong. It has to mean something, to be issued a flag on your chest, in my opinion, at least. And as far as those operations go, there's basically two where you are going to absorb as the people responding in immense amount of risk. One of them is going to be a hostage rescue, which I was a part of, we talked about that on a previous episode, the Jessica Lynch rescue. The number of people we thought we might encounter was a way bigger number than the number of people that we could get there in the helicopters. But you go anyway because of the chance of rescuing somebody. Combat search and rescue, kind of the same thing, maybe they're not, it's not a hostage situation, but it could be building towards that.

• 2:34:18Speaker 02

  I mean, maybe you don't have time to go at night, which is when you have all the tactical and technological advantage, right? The night vision goggles.

• 2:34:25Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:34:26Speaker 02

  It's like, hey, we gotta go now in the daytime. We're going to level the technological playing field and you guys are going to go full back dive and get, like, that's very high risk. Those are about the two times that you are going to accept that level of risk. And you go when you go.

• 2:34:39Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's what I wanted to ask you. So, the official story seems to track.

• 2:34:44Speaker 02

  It is more plausible to me than any of the other stories that I have heard. I would like to think that the ghost murmur, whatever it is. But then it's like, okay, I mean, walk in the dog on that one. Did this guy have to sit down and, you know, get an EKG and have his heart wave, you know, HRV on file somewhere? Because how would you not pick up somebody else's heart rate?

• 2:35:06Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:35:06Speaker 02

  How would you not pick up, you know, other animals or mammals that have, like, you know what I mean?

• 2:35:09Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:35:10Speaker 02

  So I want to believe, I think we'll probably get there. I don't think we're there yet.

• 2:35:15Joe Rogan?

  Was that an official story?

• 2:35:17Speaker 02

  No, that's a Twitter story.

• 2:35:19Joe Rogan?

  Are you sure?

• 2:35:19Speaker 02

  I, well, I first saw it on Twitter, so.

• 2:35:21Joe Rogan?

  I did too. But I, well, someone sent it to me.

• 2:35:26Joe Rogan?

  I didn't actually actively seek it out.

• 2:35:28Speaker 02

  The internet.

• 2:35:28Joe Rogan?

  Somebody sent it to me and I was like, wait, what? And then me and Jamie threw it around for a while.

• 2:35:32Speaker 02

  The internet is the best, worst thing ever.

• 2:35:34Speaker 04

  It was getting spread around by New York Post and then the same article was getting repeated everywhere. So.

• 2:35:40Joe Rogan?

  Interesting. New York Post?

• 2:35:42Speaker 04

  Have it on the screen.

• 2:35:43Speaker 02

  Interesting. Ghost murmur. I mean, I would imagine, I bet you Lockheed Martin does have a program called Ghost Murmur.

• 2:35:49Joe Rogan?

  Long range quantum magnetometry.

• 2:35:53Speaker 04

  But I'm looking at articles, so.

• 2:35:55Speaker 02

  Diamond based sensors.

• 2:35:56Speaker 04

  I think Iran was saying that we tried to do the snatching of the uranium.

• 2:36:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, those are the little birds.

• 2:36:04Speaker 04

  They foiled us. So it's like, oh, who knows what side of the story to believe.

• 2:36:08Joe Rogan?

  Right. That is part of the problem. And, you know, you got your Fox News narrative and your MSNBC narrative and who fucking knows?

• 2:36:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, separating the, uh, the bullshit in the modern era.

• 2:36:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:36:24Speaker 02

  Is more like an art form than a science.

• 2:36:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's, um, it's very confusing and it's very disconcerting to just have no. And then also, they can't tell you certain things. Like, why would the general public know about things that could affect negatively national security? Like, why? Why would they tell you? They can't tell you. Which is also part of the problem with, they're allowed to lie. They're allowed to use propaganda and misinformation on the American people in the interest of national security. So that's like.

• 2:36:58Speaker 02

  It would just be better. I would appreciate it more than like, listen, this is what we can tell you. And then this beyond this is a matter of national security. So as much as you want to know, we can't tell you.

• 2:37:06Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:37:07Speaker 02

  I'd rather prefer that over a BS story that gets, it's like a really sticky idea that then gets totally out of control. And then, you know, people have a three-piece tinfoil tuxedo one walking down Main Street.

• 2:37:17Joe Rogan?

  But it's just super weird that. There might be something like Ghost Murmur. There might be something called quantum magnetometry with diamond sensors.

• 2:37:28Speaker 02

  I bet that's real. I bet it works out. I mean, they're probably testing it on mice. You know, I mean, I'm sure that the concept is valid.

• 2:37:34Joe Rogan?

  Well, you got you. President Trump told the Post the CIA's secret new Ghost Murmur tool was very important to rescuing a downed airman inside Iran. As leading physicists and engineers debate how the futuristic technology is said to detect heartbeats at great distances might work.

• 2:37:53Speaker 04

  So I guess the Post didn't make it up. They were turned by Trump.

• 2:37:57Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:37:58Speaker 02

  I don't know if everything he says is accurate.

• 2:38:01Speaker 02

  Just to throw that out there, so.

• 2:38:04Joe Rogan?

  Hey, who knows?

• 2:38:06Speaker 02

  Gets a little loose and fast sometimes with the details in reality.

• 2:38:11Joe Rogan?

  It's just crazy that that kind of technology is even being contemplated, that there might be a future where that exists.

• 2:38:19Speaker 02

  Oh, that makes total sense to me.

• 2:38:20Joe Rogan?

  Where they can find you based on your heart rate. Well, they now know that they can use Wi-Fi in order to see 3D objects in motion in a house.

• 2:38:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, they can map basically. Yeah, I mean, it's well, I mean, again, I think Evan and I had an argument one time about radar and sonar, and we were both calling each other idiots, and we both found out that we were wrong once we looked it up on the Internet. So we'll say it's some version of that. God, we were both 100% committed that we were that we were correct, and we were both wrong, which is classic. But yeah, like in this room, the things that are emanating, there's an ability for them to map that and determine who, you know, maybe not who you are, but I bet you it gets to that point and where you are. And you want to talk about a tactically beneficial piece of information from somebody like my old job? Thank you very much.

• 2:39:06Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:39:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'll take that all day.

• 2:39:08Joe Rogan?

  As long as it stays out of the hands of the enemy.

• 2:39:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, but then they'll eventually get it, and then you'll evolve, and your tactics will change, and that's the game, man.

• 2:39:16Joe Rogan?

  It's just it gets to a point with technology where it's like, what is not possible 100 years from now? That's what's weird. Like, we are in one of the strangest times ever in human history. In terms of these quantum computers that can solve mathematical, like, Marc Andreessen explained it to me, and I'm gonna paraphrase it, I'll probably fuck it up, but he said that a quantum computer can solve an equation in a matter of minutes, that if you converted the entire universe, every atom in the universe, into a supercomputer, the universe would die of heat death before it could solve this problem. And a quantum computer on Earth can solve it in a matter of minutes.

• 2:40:00Speaker 02

  I don't even underst- I mean, honestly, like, I understand every word that you just used.

• 2:40:04Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:40:05Speaker 02

  But I don't understand what that means.

• 2:40:08Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 2:40:08Speaker 02

  And what it is capable of.

• 2:40:09Joe Rogan?

  Right. Well, they think that it might be evidence of, somehow or another, evidence of multiple dimensions of a multiverse, and that not only is this quantum computer operating in this universe, but in an infinite number of other universes simultaneously.

• 2:40:31Speaker 02

  I like the Doctor Strange movies. I'm in.

• 2:40:33Joe Rogan?

  Oh, the multiverse.

• 2:40:34Speaker 02

  That's, I mean, to me, that's

• 2:40:36Joe Rogan?

  I think they started it with Spider-Man.

• 2:40:37Speaker 02

  That might as well be a scientific documentary, because that's my reference for the multiverse.

• 2:40:41Joe Rogan?

  Right. It's like, I guess we shouldn't even talk about it, because we don't know what we're saying.

• 2:40:46Speaker 02

  It's never stopped me before.

• 2:40:47Joe Rogan?

  But it's one of those things where, like, quantum computers are real. Like, that's a, it's an actual, real thing now. Google, specifically, Hermut Nevin, who leads Google Quantum AI, has recently used language that strongly suggests their new quantum chip speed could be understood as borrowing computational power from other universes. But this is an interpretive speculative way of talking about quantum mechanics, not an experimentally established fact or a standard claim. The claim comes from a December 2024 blog post about Google's Willow quantum chip. Nevin wrote that the chip solved a task in minutes that would take a classical supercomputer about 10 to the 25th power years, far longer

• 2:41:32Joe Rogan?

  than the age of the universe.

• 2:41:36Speaker 02

  Again, I understand every word you just used, but I don't understand what that means.

• 2:41:40Joe Rogan?

  Stop scrolling, scroll back up. He then said, "This lends credence to the notion that quantum computation occurs in many parallel universes, and that this aligns with the idea that we live in a multiverse explicitly referencing David Deutsch's 'many worlds' argument for quantum computing." Yeah, right, we're too dumb to have this conversation. That's where we need to get Bill on speakerphone. Bill? Bill, explain this.

• 2:42:03Speaker 02

  Problem is, he'd be like, and then...

• 2:42:06Joe Rogan?

  And then the show would be five hours long.

• 2:42:08Speaker 02

  Well, and then I would also understand the words that he was using, but not in the combination and sequence that he would use them.

• 2:42:14Joe Rogan?

  Exactly, exactly.

• 2:42:16Speaker 02

  I'm just appreciative that he exists.

• 2:42:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I'm appreciative that there's people like that out there. Your book, Drowned Proof, I assume this is in normal language, that a normal person like you and I could read?

• 2:42:27Speaker 02

  Well, considering that I wrote it, we did not use a lot of multi-syllable words. A lot of "and's" and "the's" are in there.

• 2:42:34Joe Rogan?

  Well, I'm sure it's awesome. Look, you got Jaco, Jack Carr, and me giving you blurbs on the cover, so it's gotta be good.

• 2:42:43Speaker 02

  So at some point, it doesn't have to be now, but I essentially wrote in the inscription, and I mean this from the bottom of my heart, "My life would not look the way it does had you and I not randomly met through Tate Fletcher." Like, my post-military life would look completely different, and I have no ability to like pay you back for how gracious you've been with like your time and your platform, so...

• 2:43:06Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's a two-way street, because your presence on my show has enriched my show. It's made the show better, for sure.

• 2:43:14Speaker 02

  Well, my promise is that I will do the best I can to be a positive impact on the world around me. I think that's the best way that I can try to pay you back, and honestly, it's the reason why I wrote that in the first place, so that's all I can do.

• 2:43:26Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's my pleasure, and I try to do the exact same thing. And shout out to my boy Tate Fletcher. I haven't seen that guy in forever.

• 2:43:32Speaker 02

  He's the best.

• 2:43:33Joe Rogan?

  I love him. All right, I love you too. Thank you very much, and thanks for being here. And Drowned Proof, did you read the audiobook?

• 2:43:39Speaker 02

  I did.

• 2:43:40Joe Rogan?

  Yes! I love it.

• 2:43:41Speaker 02

  After that experience, let me tell you, voice actors, I struggle with it enough as the person who wrote the words. I can't even fathom what it would be like going in there blind and like, "Well, let's just figure this out as we go."

• 2:43:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's a tough gig. Yeah, there's a reason why they...

• 2:43:56Speaker 02

  Jaco wrote and read the foreword?

• 2:43:59Joe Rogan?

  Nice.

• 2:44:00Speaker 02

  That was amazing.

• 2:44:01Joe Rogan?

  Beautiful. All right. That's it. Go get it, folks. It's out now. Alright. Bye, buddy.