MFM Minisode 461

This week’s hometowns include a Hocus Pocus connection and a drunk storm off. For our sources, please visit https://www.myfavoritemurder.com/episodes. Support this podcast by shopping our latest sponsor deals and promotions at this link: https://bit.ly/3UFCn1g. Head to social media to share your favorite moments from this episode. Instagram: instagram.com/myfavoritemurder http://instagram.com/myfavoritemurder Facebook: facebook.com/myfavoritemurder http://facebook.com/myfavoritemurder TikTok: tiktok.com/@my_favorite_murder http://tiktok.com/@my_favorite_murder Watch full episodes of My Favorite Murder on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@my_favorite_murder Send your hometown stories to [email protected] mailto:[email protected]. Join the Fan Cult to access ad-free episodes of My Favorite Murder. Members also receive merch store discounts, exclusive audio and video content and more! Visit www.fancult.supercast.com http://www.fancult.supercast.com/ to join. Shop for My Favorite Murder and other Exactly Right merchandise here: www.exactlyrightstore.com https://www.exactlyrightstore.com. Rate, review and follow My Favorite Murder on the iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you like to listen. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  This is exactly right.

• 0:06Speaker 01

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• 0:36Speaker 02

  In New Orleans, truckers kept getting sideswiped the exact same way. When a man is found murdered under questionable circumstances related to these accidents, the rubber hits the road. And what the feds uncover is a complex scheme of staged wrecks, financial fraud, and a pair of conspiring lovers behind it. This is a story about fake accidents that led to real consequences. Listen to Over My Dead Body: Operation Sideswipe wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can binge all episodes early and ad-free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

• 1:12Georgia Hardstark?

  The Hulu original series Phony is now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+. Sonny's life is pretty great, until he wakes up from a car accident to a world that looks exactly like his, with one exception: his mom.

• 1:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Starring five-time Emmy nominee Connie Britton and Sam Nivola, this small town is hiding the mother of all mysteries just beneath the surface.

• 1:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Watch the Hulu original series, Phony.

• 1:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+ for bundle subscribers. Terms apply.

• 1:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Goodbye.

• 1:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Hello and welcome.

• 1:58Georgia Hardstark?

  To my favorite murder.

• 2:00Karen Kilgariff?

  The minisode.

• 2:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 2:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Do you know what we do here? What we're about to show you.

• 2:05Georgia Hardstark?

  We're gonna show you and tell you.

• 2:06Karen Kilgariff?

  We're gonna tell you, but first show you.

• 2:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes, those things. I'm first, right?

• 2:11Karen Kilgariff?

  You're first.

• 2:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay. I'm not reading you the subject line. This email has been sitting in my drafts folder for forever, but you guys just asked for fucked up bone stories, basically calling me out. This sounds fake. I promise it isn't. Let's get into it, shall we? I grew up in South San Jose. Hey, NorCal.

• 2:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Hey.

• 2:33Georgia Hardstark?

  In a suburban neighborhood of tract homes that were built in the early 70s. I was in second grade at the time of this incident, making it about 1991, two-ish. 1991 or 2. It was a Sunday and my dad was setting about to transplant a bush from the front yard to the backyard. I scampered off down the street to play with friends before I could be roped into any sort of forced labor. Apparently, the proper procedure for transplanting a bush involves digging around the roots and attempting to leave the plant with enough root material that it's able to survive in its new home. Got it.

• 3:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Sure.

• 3:03Georgia Hardstark?

  The first shovel full or two passed uneventfully, but something small and white came up with the third. My dad picked up the object to examine it more closely and found himself holding a bone. Maybe a previous owner of our home had buried a beloved family pet in the front yard. In true dad fashion, he set the bone aside and went back to the task at hand. The next shovel full of dirt, however, cleared up any pet cemetery questions. There, peeking out from under the damn bush, was a human skull.

• 3:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Holy shit.

• 3:33Georgia Hardstark?

  There was a whole dead person in our front yard. Gets worse. I looked up from playing down the street to find a cop car in my driveway. Lots of police came, a coroner came. They dug up the rest of the skeleton, which was about a foot and a half below the surface, and curled in a fetal position around the roots of the bush. The first bone that had been set aside was a finger bone. After much examination, it was determined that this was no recently buried body. In fact, it had been there for a very, very long time. Unbeknownst to us or anyone else in our neighborhood, our unassuming tract homes had been built unceremoniously upon a traditional native burial ground.

• 4:08Karen Kilgariff?

  No.

• 4:09Georgia Hardstark?

  This is the plot of Poltergeist.

• 4:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, it is.

• 4:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Is this person lying?

• 4:13Karen Kilgariff?

  They just moved the headstones. Yeah. That's why they said it sounds like a lie, but it's not.

• 4:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. The skeleton that had been unearthed in our yard was that of a Moecma Aloney man in his 30s who had passed hundreds of years before.

• 4:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Wow.

• 4:27Georgia Hardstark?

  As a second grader, I was thrilled that ours was the most interesting house on the street for a while. We even made it into the newspaper. A group of archaeology students from San Jose State spent the summer combing through the rest of our yard, looking for other artifacts. I'm not sure if they ever found anything. We were informed that it was very probable that there were other bodies buried within our property lines and advised not to dig too deep.

• 4:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 4:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Once it had been thoroughly examined, the fate of the skeleton had to be determined. His descendants, current tribal members, informed my parents that the remains could be moved to the graveyard at Mission San Jose or be reburied in our front yard. Since it was his place before it was ours, the remains were returned to where they had been found. He remains there to this day.

• 5:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Nice.

• 5:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Stay sexy and maybe don't build houses on someone else's sacred ground. Marissa, she/her.

• 5:13Karen Kilgariff?

  That's wild.

• 5:15Georgia Hardstark?

  I know.

• 5:15Karen Kilgariff?

  And then, what a beautiful thing that they did. Yes, that's where that person belongs, like.

• 5:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 5:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, my God.

• 5:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, so wild.

• 5:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, I won't read you the subject line, but it does say Bay Area hometown.

• 5:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 5:29Karen Kilgariff?

  This is the effects of, we were just in Oakland.

• 5:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 5:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Right? It just says, "What's up, MFM fam? I grew up in a small suburb of the Bay Area named Millbrae. I tried to think of something cool to rep about our town, but sadly, nothing comes to mind. Anyways, on to the story." Well, let me just stop you there, because here's what reps Millbrae. Almost all of my cousins grew up in Millbrae.

• 5:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh.

• 5:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Millbrae was where, like, three or four of my uncles and aunts settled after they moved out of San Francisco.

• 5:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 6:00Karen Kilgariff?

  We spent lots of time in Millbrae growing up, so.

• 6:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, gee.

• 6:04Karen Kilgariff?

  I think your town is cool. Okay, so at some point, you've asked for stories about people hiding in houses slash ceilings, and boy, do I have one for you.

• 6:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 6:13Karen Kilgariff?

  At my high school, once you hit your senior year, you get to elect for all the cool classes like Cooking, Leadership, Yearbook, you know, the classes with no homework. The Leadership class was the coveted class to get into and was taught by Mr. L., who was always full of energy and fun. Everybody wanted to be in his class because he was always thinking of insane things to create for rallies or murals to paint around the school. You had to apply and get accepted into the class. That's how many seniors wanted to be there. As the school year came to its halfway point, we noticed Mr. L. disappearing a lot from class at random times, until that fateful week that we all became aware of what he was doing when we couldn't find him. Turns out, he was crawling around in the ceilings of the school,

• 6:56Karen Kilgariff?

  installing cameras above the stalls in the girls' bathrooms.

• 7:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Ew, what a creep.

• 7:03Karen Kilgariff?

  He first convinced the yearbook teacher to switch storage closets with him, which was conveniently located next to the bathrooms, cut an entry point into the ceiling and would crawl in there during class, passing periods and at lunch. He also installed a camera on the underside of his desk to film girls unknowingly in class.

• 7:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Ew.

• 7:24Karen Kilgariff?

  I remember all week, girls getting pulled into the principal's office to be made aware that they were on the tapes.

• 7:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Jesus.

• 7:31Karen Kilgariff?

  You could see the small holes above the stalls for months after. That's so fucking.

• 7:37Georgia Hardstark?

  But they didn't fill them in?

• 7:38Karen Kilgariff?

  They didn't. Because don't you just have to replace that one tile?

• 7:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Just leave them.

• 7:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Fuck. And we even saw the entry into the ceiling in the storage closet.

• 7:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 7:48Karen Kilgariff?

  It turns out Mr. L wasn't the energetic cool teacher. He was a child predator whose energy was, in fact, fueled by meth.

• 7:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Fuck. Wow.

• 7:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Second shoe drop. After he was arrested, his YouTube account got leaked.

• 8:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, this is recent then. I was picturing like the 70s. So he was posting this shit.

• 8:07Karen Kilgariff?

  No, he wasn't posting that, it doesn't look like. After he was arrested, his YouTube account got leaked, to which we found videos of meth-fueled ramblings.

• 8:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh dear. Those are the worst kind of ramblings.

• 8:18Karen Kilgariff?

  I thought our content was cringe. So we should definitely do some meth-fueled ramblings.

• 8:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Fan cult. Hey, fan cult, this one's just for you.

• 8:28Karen Kilgariff?

  It's us in the 90s.

• 8:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Fan cult exclusive, meth-fueled ramblings.

• 8:33Karen Kilgariff?

  I have some more insane stories from my wife, who grew up in a religious cult that tried to resurrect a teenage girl for three days after she had passed. But I'll save that for another time. Stay sexy and hug the nurses in your life because they probably need it these days. Sarah.

• 8:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow. That's just so fucked up. I was like, that's from the 70s or 80s. Like, that shit doesn't happen anymore. And it's like, nope, that's from recently.

• 8:57Karen Kilgariff?

  That's a recent one, and it's a real problem. And now that they have those weird Google glasses that can record you, and they just look like glasses, but they're video recorders. Have you heard of those?

• 9:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, but I don't want to know too much about them.

• 9:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay. Well, just know that if somebody's like, what did you just say with glasses on?

• 9:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Don't say anything stupid.

• 9:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Then you just start singing any Disney song.

• 9:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, right, because you can't. So smart.

• 9:20Speaker 01

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• 9:50Georgia Hardstark?

  There are plenty of things that keep you up at night. Your sleep tracker shouldn't be one of them.

• 9:55Karen Kilgariff?

  You know that feeling, laying in bed, staring at the ceiling, counting all the times you said something weird.

• 10:00Georgia Hardstark?

  And then you wake up and check your sleep score. Now you have to start your day knowing that you failed at sleeping.

• 10:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Hatch Sleep Clock does it differently.

• 10:07Georgia Hardstark?

  It tracks your sleep from your nightstand. No ring, wristband, or judgmental score waiting for you in the morning.

• 10:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Instead, you'll get personalized insights to understand your sleep and recommendations to build a routine you'll love night after night.

• 10:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Fall asleep to the next chapter of an audiobook, like The Odyssey, a nervous system reset meditation, or a calming sound bath.

• 10:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Then you can find out which gives you 20 more minutes of deep sleep each night.

• 10:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Hatch Sleep Clock.

• 10:31Karen Kilgariff?

  The sleep tracker designed to get you to sleep. Available now on hatch.co.

• 10:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Goodbye.

• 10:37Karen Kilgariff?

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• 11:20Karen Kilgariff?

  use offer code MURDER to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Goodbye.

• 11:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, here's my next one. I'm not going to read you the title. Hey besties. I'm here today to tell you a story from my family history. This is all about fucking the witch trials.

• 11:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 11:38Georgia Hardstark?

  In the year of our Lord, 1692, in Salem, Massachusetts, my great, great, great, great, and then it says, that's 11 greats, I'm not going to read them all.

• 11:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Wow.

• 11:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Grandmother Mary Town Esty was accused by a neighbor girl of witchcraft. She was likely accused in the first place, of course, actually by this poor little girl's father or uncle, who had a real problem with ladies owning land due to how hard she was fighting back against the witch trials happening around her.

• 12:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 12:03Georgia Hardstark?

  She actually wrote an incredible petition directly to the governor of Massachusetts, begging him to come and end the persecution. She was unfortunately hanged on September 22, 1692, after being convicted of witchcraft, and the governor returned to Salem only weeks after to put a stop to all this madness.

• 12:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Ah.

• 12:20Georgia Hardstark?

  It's not crazy that there were people in the state who like-

• 12:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Could have done something.

• 12:24Georgia Hardstark?

  And didn't believe in what was happening.

• 12:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Right. Also, just, it's so sad that he didn't come in time, but then what she did actually saved a bunch of other women.

• 12:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, here you go.

• 12:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 12:34Georgia Hardstark?

  I have known about Mary and my connection to her for several years, but what I recently learned on a trip to Salem is that she had two sisters also accused of witchcraft. Rebecca Nurse, the oldest sister, was hanged the same day as Mary, and the younger sister, Sarah Cloys, was saved from execution, likely partly in thanks to Mary's petition.

• 12:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 12:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Several years after the Salem trials, Sarah Cloys was given three sovereign coins in reparations, which would be about four US dollars then, in 1700s money. So today-

• 13:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Four dollars in the 1700s would be around $80,000?

• 13:13Georgia Hardstark?

  $3,000.

• 13:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 13:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Says, so yeah, sorry, the state murdered your sisters, but here's 3K about it.

• 13:22Georgia Hardstark?

  I love, anyhow, three sisters, witches in Salem, sound familiar? That's right. My ancestors served as the real life inspiration for the Sanderson sisters from the legendary Hocus Pocus.

• 13:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Holy shit, girl.

• 13:36Georgia Hardstark?

  I know. And it says, fuck the patriarchy for real. I love you ladies and all you stand for, and I'm happy to continue my family legacy of being a loud mouth bitch who has to be hung to shut up and submit.

• 13:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 13:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Ally, she, her.

• 13:51Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right, Ally.

• 13:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Yay.

• 13:53Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right. What a, oh my god.

• 13:55Georgia Hardstark?

  I know.

• 13:56Karen Kilgariff?

  What a legacy.

• 13:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 13:58Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, dang, Ally. That was a great one.

• 14:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 14:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay. The subject line of this email, stop storming off when you're drunk.

• 14:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Ooh, I've done that. Oh, you just brought some bad fucking memories up, real quick.

• 14:13Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean.

• 14:13Georgia Hardstark?

  You brought some bad, like, I'm so lucky I'm not dead memories up.

• 14:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, well, here we go.

• 14:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, god.

• 14:20Karen Kilgariff?

  And away we go. This says, ladies, and Steven in parentheses. Steven. Look, listen, I was not a well behaved teen. You know how it is. My sister and I are less than two years apart, very close, and got up to all kinds of trouble in our youth. More on that another time. When I was 16, my sister, a few friends, and myself decided we should go to San Francisco for my birthday and get into trouble. And then it parentheses, it says, why were we so dumb? And it's like, I'll tell you, because wherever you lived around San Francisco had nothing going on.

• 14:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Absolutely nothing.

• 14:52Karen Kilgariff?

  The only place to go. San Francisco was about a three hour drive. Oh, no. Where did she live? Monterey or some shit?

• 14:59Georgia Hardstark?

  That's like Sacramento, too, isn't it?

• 15:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Sacramento would be like two. Maybe they lived in like Yukai or something. San Francisco was about a three hour drive from where we lived, and it was doable, so we did it. Wanting to go out and drink, but only being 16 years old, we came up with a plan. We hypothesized that if we were to stroll into a busy bar, all dressed up and cute, and just take a seat, eventually some drinking age type gentleman would buy us ladies a drink. I'd love to tell you, we were wrong. Unfortunately, we were, all caps, exactly right. I don't remember a lot of what happened that night, but I do remember my sister throwing up in the bathroom. I also remember getting into an argument with one of my girlfriends and storming off down the street by myself. Parenthesis, I know, I know, but live and learn, right?

• 15:43Karen Kilgariff?

  I didn't even make it to the next street light when I was approached by a man. He asked me if I wanted a ride or something to that effect. I declined, but he didn't like that. He swiftly swooped me up, threw me over his shoulder, and hastily began to walk towards a nearby parking garage. She's a drunk teenager.

• 16:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh my god.

• 16:03Karen Kilgariff?

  A drunk teenager alone.

• 16:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, in a big city.

• 16:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. Luckily, I had enough sense to begin kicking and screaming. Even luckier, though, my friends were not that far and heard the commotion. They ran up to the man and screamed at him to put me down with so much force and veracity that they drew the attention of other people nearby. Then he set me down and ran to the parking garage. Broke, scared, and completely wasted, we flagged down a taxi that was passing by and explained the situation to the driver. This kind man picked up four drunk-as-fuck teenage girls and dropped us back off at our hotel and didn't charge us for the ride.

• 16:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh my god.

• 16:41Karen Kilgariff?

  I was lucky, all caps. Lucky that my friends were nearby and lucky that they had the courage to verbally assault my would-be kidnapper, forcing him to flee. I'm a grown up now with an adult nursing job and adult bills, as well as two children of my own at home. I'm also a helicopter parent because I know the kind of shenanigans kids get up to when they leave the house without supervision, and I also know what kind of predators lie in wait. Thank you both so much for what you do. Listening to your dynamic makes me feel like I'm talking to my little sister. She is still my best friend to this day. Recently, I convinced her to listen to the pod as we were both enamored with true crime. And then parentheses says, "she loves," of course. I love you both dearly and listen to the podcast while my 12-hour night shifts drag on and on at the hospital.

• 17:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Holy shit.

• 17:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Hope to meet you both someday. Stay sexy and don't, all caps, walk off by yourself like ever. Love always, Jess.

• 17:35Georgia Hardstark?

  I can't even blame my not being a teen. I was in my twenties, and guess where? I walked off alone at night, drunk. New Orleans.

• 17:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 17:44Georgia Hardstark?

  And lucky, the person who came after me was a friend. This dude who saw me leave and he was like, "Oh, no," and locked me back to my hotel room.

• 17:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Fucking thanks, dude. I mean, also in towns like that where the tourism is based on tourists getting drunk. There is a whole Yeah. sub-business of like picking off drunk tourists. Totally. In all different kinds of ways. Totally. Oh. Oh, my God, fucked up. Tell us your stories so we don't feel so bad. I know. Yes, exactly. We can all collectively shudder about the stupid things we did when we were drunk and 16. And then 29. Really? Oh, and 29. Well, we're always always 16. Yeah, in our hearts, we're 16. That's right.

• 18:25Speaker 05

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• 18:55Georgia Hardstark?

  There are plenty of things that keep you up at night. Your sleep tracker shouldn't be one of them.

• 18:59Karen Kilgariff?

  You know that feeling, laying in bed, staring at the ceiling, counting all the times you said something weird.

• 19:04Georgia Hardstark?

  And then you wake up and check your sleep score. Now you have to start your day knowing that you failed at sleeping.

• 19:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Hatch Sleep Clock does it differently.

• 19:12Georgia Hardstark?

  It tracks your sleep from your nightstand. No ring, wristband, or judgmental score waiting for you in the morning.

• 19:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Instead, you'll get personalized insights to understand your sleep and recommendations to build a routine you'll love night after night.

• 19:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Fall asleep to the next chapter of an audiobook like The Odyssey, a nervous system reset meditation, or a calming sound bath.

• 19:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Then you can find out which gives you 20 more minutes of deep sleep each night.

• 19:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Hatch Sleep Clock.

• 19:36Karen Kilgariff?

  The sleep tracker designed to get you to sleep. Available now on hatch.co.

• 19:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Goodbye. Buying furniture is a lot of pressure. It has to look good, feel good, and hold up to everyday life.

• 19:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Take it from me, a bad couch can ruin your life.

• 19:50Georgia Hardstark?

  That's why Article focuses on stylish, high-quality pieces designed to last.

• 19:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Article makes it effortless to create a stylish, long-lasting home at an unbeatable price.

• 19:59Georgia Hardstark?

  They take great care in curating their collection, focusing on pieces that stand the test of time. There's no filler. Every item is chosen for its craftsmanship, design, and lasting value.

• 20:09Karen Kilgariff?

  And with Article's 30-day satisfaction guarantee, you can shop with confidence, knowing that if you're not completely in love with your new furniture, you can easily return it. Man, there was nothing I loved more than when I was broke and I could still buy furniture that I needed at Article. It wasn't cheap-looking. It's like I was investing in these pieces that were comparatively inexpensive, and I was finishing rooms. I was getting the kitchen table that was bringing the whole thing together. And it was such an incredible thing because I never got to do that before. I love that about Article.

• 20:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Article is offering our listeners $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more.

• 20:45Karen Kilgariff?

  To claim, visit article.com/murder, and the discount will be automatically applied at checkout.

• 20:50Georgia Hardstark?

  That's article.com/murder for $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more.

• 20:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye.

• 20:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, this is called "My toddler sees dead people." Greetings, accolades, and whatnot. This is the story about the time my son outed Grandma's secret lover. And then it says, "Or so I thought." And then Molly reminded us that we ask for "or so we thought" themed stories.

• 21:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, that's, ugh.

• 21:16Georgia Hardstark?

  We still want them.

• 21:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, "or so we thought."

• 21:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Outed my Grandma's secret lover, "or so I thought." In 2018, my husband tragically lost his mother to cancer. Even though she passed before our son was born, we always talk fondly about Grandma Sheila to our now-three-year-old to keep her memory alive. Our son adores looking at pictures of his Grandma and hearing stories about her life. One day, while digging in his sandbox, my toddler, unprompted, announced, "Grandma's with Kevin." "Kevin?" I asked. "Yeah," he replied. "Who is Kevin, you ask? We have no idea." I asked my husband if he knew who our son could be talking about, but nothing rang about. He has never met anyone named Kevin in his short life, the son, not the husband, and is only familiar with Kevin McAllister from Home Alone.

• 22:01Karen Kilgariff?

  [laughing]

• 22:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Is this who he meant, or did Grandma have a secret companion she was reunited with in the afterlife? I tried to think back to her funeral. Were there any mysterious figures standing inconspicuously in the back of the cemetery secretly mourning her death? I don't think so.

• 22:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Can I just make a guess?

• 22:17Georgia Hardstark?

  No, no, you can't.

• 22:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 22:19Georgia Hardstark?

  So, our son continued to bring Grandma and Kevin every so often, but the mystery of Kevin endured. Don't say anything.

• 22:27Karen Kilgariff?

  I won't.

• 22:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Fast forward a few months when we lost my beloved grandpa, who we affectionately called Bubba. We explained to our son that Bubba had passed away and was now with Jesus. Shortly after this, while driving to daycare, my son announced from his car seat that Grandma and Bubba are at Kevin's. Again, I thought, who the heck is Kevin? And then it hit me. Buddy, I asked, do you mean Grandma and Bubba are in heaven? To which he raised both his hands into the air and replied, yeah, up in the sky. We thought it was Kevin. I have never felt more dumb. Of course, my son was not channeling Grandma's secret lover or referencing Macaulay Culkin's iconic character. He was just a little off with his pronunciation.

• 23:07Karen Kilgariff?

  [laughing]

• 23:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Love the pod and all you do, stay sexy and do Kevin's mission.

• 23:12Karen Kilgariff?

  [laughing]

• 23:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Corinne, rhymes with chlorine.

• 23:16Karen Kilgariff?

  [laughing] I want, my guess was that, did he mean Jesus?

• 23:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh.

• 23:23Karen Kilgariff?

  But that's kind of a crazy one, because it doesn't sound like.

• 23:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Kevin and, no, you could, yeah, I see it.

• 23:29Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, I don't know. That's so good.

• 23:31Georgia Hardstark?

  He's with Kevin.

• 23:32Karen Kilgariff?

  He's with Kevin. I told you that when Nora was really little, and for some reason, this memory really embarrasses her, but now that she's an adult, I can embarrass her. One time, they were driving down this little street in Petaluma, like where Copperfield's Books is, Kentucky. It was just like a little main drag with all the businesses on it. And there was a couple walking, an old couple, like, walking hand in hand. And Nora looked at them and goes, oh, they're walking in Jesus's love. And my sister's like, what the fuck? Wow, where did she get that from? From her Catholic grammar school that she went to. Right. Uh huh. They're walking and she's, and every time I say it, I think she's gonna laugh with me and she's like, Yeah, that's embarrassing. You're super Christian when you were four.

• 24:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, I'm not gonna read you the subject line. It just starts, "My parents were high school sweethearts and married young after my dad joined the military, moving us to Florida. Thirteen years later, the marriage ended bitterly when I was nine, and a few years later, they married other people. Fast forward to my senior year of college, my dad, now living in Corpus Christi, got the much-needed therapy he needed to begin the journey of overcoming his PTSD from serving in the military and began to address his demons. One day in September, he had a panic attack at work so bad, he thought he had a heart attack, and I rushed to Corpus from San Antonio in record time. He was fine, but shaken up. The next morning, my mom texted me and asked how he was doing. I texted back, 'He's great, take a look,' and sent her a photo.

• 25:00Karen Kilgariff?

  She replied, 'Wow, he looks really good.' I told my dad about this exchange and her comment. He grabbed my phone and, looking at the text, looked like a teenager who was just told his crush liked him back. Shut the fuck up. They began texting and, a few months later, in December, reunited to watch me walk the stage with my bachelor's degree. Turns out, they had been reconnecting via text for months and went out on their first date, just dinner, the weekend I graduated. Oh my god. End of story, right? Wrong. My dad had divorced his second wife, but my mom was still married. Two months later, my stepdad's cancer, which we thought had gone into remission four years earlier, had come back with a vengeance.

• 25:42Karen Kilgariff?

  I was on the first flight back to Florida and was able to have one conversation with him before he passed a week later. Oh my god. My mom was racked with guilt because she had intended to leave my stepdad to go back to my dad. Messy, so messy. So messy. A few months later, my dad flew to Florida and helped her pack up and move to Texas. A year later, they had a small apartment together, and less than a year after that, they were remarried in a small courthouse ceremony a few miles from where they met. Oh my god. And just so you know, the subject line of this email is, "I parent-trapped my parents."

• 26:21Karen Kilgariff?

  I found your podcast in 2022 shortly after I gave birth to my daughter and postpartum depression and anxiety had me in a chokehold. I went all the way back to the first episode and your voice has got me through one of the worst periods of my life as I cared for my newborn. It took me two years to catch up and I now listen religiously. My husband and I just went to see your live show in Austin a few weeks ago. Oh my god. Like many others have said, thank you so much for speaking so vehemently about mental health. A.

• 26:51Georgia Hardstark?

  What? I've always thought that's such a trip. Like, as someone whose parents divorced when I was five, there was one, they didn't like each other, they never talked. There was one moment in time in high school where they suddenly got along and I'd see them together and it was just so fucking weird. Like,

• 27:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 27:07Georgia Hardstark?

  to see your parents together and that be weird is a weird feeling. You know what I mean?

• 27:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Right, because it just wasn't the norm for you.

• 27:13Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 27:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 27:14Georgia Hardstark?

  But yeah, oh, that's a trip. Oh, I love you and I, pre- uniting stories, but I don't like that this poor stepdad.

• 27:20Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, it's the kind of thing where like that mother must have, it's not just guilt.

• 27:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 27:24Karen Kilgariff?

  I bet she was overwhelmed with the synchronicity where it's like, it's just the thing that's happening. And it's almost like you didn't want that to happen.

• 27:32Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 27:33Karen Kilgariff?

  You just,

• 27:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, yeah.

• 27:35Karen Kilgariff?

  God.

• 27:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Messy.

• 27:36Karen Kilgariff?

  So messy.

• 27:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Send us your messy family stories at myfavoritemurder@gmail. The messier, the better.

• 27:41Karen Kilgariff?

  The messier, the better. I remember seeing a woman who was, there was a boy in my class who I liked and so I paid way too much attention to what he was doing. And his parents got divorced and then his dad started dating a woman who looked literally exactly like the mother. And that woman was the, like, worker in the place where me and my dad just were. So when we got into the car, I go, that's so and so's dad's new girlfriend. And the girlfriend looks exactly like the ex-wife. And I was like, isn't that weird? My dad goes, Karen? You never know what people are gonna do. Like, he gave this thing as if he had been waiting to talk about it forever, but it was just this super general thing of like, people are nuts.

• 28:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Or, everybody has a type. And they stick, even, even adults.

• 28:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Yep.

• 28:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 28:24Karen Kilgariff?

  You never know what people are gonna do. I was like, oh, that's very true.

• 28:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, we know what you're gonna do, and that's having listened to this.

• 28:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Turn it off.

• 28:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Already. And we appreciate you having listened. Thank you so much.

• 28:37Karen Kilgariff?

  And send us your stories. If you have anything related to anything you just heard and you would like to add to the conversation.

• 28:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, anything at all.

• 28:43Karen Kilgariff?

  [email protected]. Stay sexy.

• 28:46Georgia Hardstark?

  And don't get murdered.

• 28:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie?

• 28:58Karen Kilgariff?

  This has been an Exactly Right production.

• 29:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Our senior producers are Alejandra Keck and Molly Smith.

• 29:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.

• 29:05Georgia Hardstark?

  This episode was mixed by Liana Spolacci.

• 29:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Email your hometowns to [email protected].

• 29:10Georgia Hardstark?

  And follow the show on Instagram at MyFavoriteMurder.

• 29:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 29:17Georgia Hardstark?

  And now you can watch us on Exactly Right's YouTube page. And while you're there, please like and subscribe.

• 29:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye.

• 29:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Calling all amateur detectives and podcast obsessives.

• 29:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Virgin Voyages' second True Crime Voyage sets sail March 20th, 2027, for a five-night escape to Grand Turk and the beach club at Bimini.

• 29:41Karen Kilgariff?

  As part of the On Air at Sea collection, this immersive sailing brings together fan favorite podcasts, including Disgrace Land, Buried Bones, and Wise Crack, for live recordings, behind-the-scenes access, exclusive meet-and-greets, and crime-themed programming that you won't find anywhere else.

• 29:57Georgia Hardstark?

  All aboard our award-winning, kid-free ships.

• 30:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Head over to virginvoyages.com/truecrime to secure your spot.

• 30:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Goodbye.

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