Can the U.S. Win a War in the Pacific Against China? | EYES ON GEOPOLITICS

We sit down with former U. S. Navy submariner and defense analyst Thomas Shugart to examine the rapidly shifting military balance between the United States and China, from Taiwan invasion planning and shipbuilding to missile stockpiles and the future of Indo-Pacific deterrence. We also explore whether America is prepared for a prolonged conflict with China and why Beijing may be far closer to that goal than many realize. Find Tom here: https://x.com/tshugart3?lang=en https://www.linkedin.com/in/thomas-shugart-703079114 https://thomasshugart.substack.com/ Support the show on Patreon:⬇️ https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouse Subscribe to our newsletter!!!! https://teamhousepodcast.kit.com/join Jack's news outlet:⬇️ https://thehighside.substack.com/ Jack's new book:⬇️ https://a.co/d/0gywUGvn Find Jon Hackett here:⬇️ Jon's Twitter: https://x.com/jonathanhackett Jon's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thejonathanhackett Jon's books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B0C5L659N5?ccs_id=e11a2062-f8d3-498e-bfd7-7d2f3869caf6 Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thejonathanhackett Twitter: https://x.com/jonathanhackett "Karl Casey @ White Bat Audio" 00:00 Start 01:50 China's Military Pressure Is Increasing, Not Slowing 03:38 Why the PLA Is Building a Different Military Than America's 07:18 Does China's Lack of Combat Experience Matter? 10:41 Why Hasn't China Invaded Taiwan Yet? 13:58 Would the U. S. Actually Defend Taiwan? 17:32 Can Diplomacy Reduce the Risk of War? 20:21 The First & Second Island Chains Explained 25:27 China's Special Operations and Fifth Column Threat Inside Taiwan 28:04 Rare Earth Minerals, Seabed Mining & Military-Civil Fusion 30:58 America's Shipbuilding Problem in a Long War 34:01 China's Military Doctrine and "Active Defense" 39:04 Can the Pentagon Innovate Fast Enough? 43:15 China's Allies, Overseas Bases & Global Logistics 48:29 Missile Stockpiles, Air Defenses & Preparing for a Pacific War Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:30Speaker 01

  911, what's your emergency? Please help us, they're everywhere. We think they're murder warnings. 911 Nashville returns.

• 0:40Speaker 02

  What's a homicide detective doing here?

• 0:42Speaker 03

  Three bodies on the ground.

• 0:43Speaker 01

  With emergencies of biblical proportions.

• 0:46Speaker 03

  All since swarms upon you and upon your people.

• 0:49Speaker 02

  That's one of the plagues of the Bible.

• 0:50Speaker 03

  And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville.

• 0:53Speaker 01

  Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 1:00Speaker 04

  Hey, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Eyes on Geopolitics. I'm here with Thomas Sugart, Jonathan Hackett, and Jack Murphy. For the people that don't know who Tom is, he actually did a great episode on the Team House, you should check that out, talking about his career. He's a former US Navy submariner who served more than 25 years, and he's now a data analyst, defense analyst, excuse me, and an adjunct senior fellow at the Center for New American Security, where obviously he focuses on the Indo-Pacific and the involving, like, and just the balance between America and Chinese militaries and stuff. So he's the guy who's keeping his eye on all this. He's got a great Twitter account.

• 1:43Speaker 04

  I suggest anyone's interested in this topic to check him out and follow him there. I'll leave a link in the description as well, you can find him. Tom, thanks for joining us.

• 1:52Speaker 05

  Pleasure to be here, thanks, Dean.

• 1:54Speaker 04

  Of course. I mean, obviously, I feel like the Chinese-American rivalry has kind of taken a backseat, at least in the press, since Iran started. And there's obviously some connections there, too. Like, there's some rumor that China is helping Iran with some targeting, or at least supplies. You know, definitely, they were the biggest Iranians, they were Iran's biggest customer for oil. So there are some connections there, but I definitely want to focus on that US-Chinese rivalry, where it's at. You know, I just saw that China just had some, like, live-fire drills off the coast of Taiwan a few days ago, for a couple of days.

• 2:37Speaker 04

  And like, just where we're at, essentially, now, July 2026, with this, you know, this thing that will basically define the next probably 50 years.

• 2:50Speaker 05

  So I would say that while there has been perhaps a drop-off a bit in the rhetoric of the competition, as it were, I mean, the facts on the ground haven't, from China's side, certainly haven't dialed back at all. You know, they are being aggressive as they ever were in the South China Sea. You know, we just saw the other day Chinese sailors, you know, beating on Philippine sailors with sticks. Remember, that's a treaty ally of the United States we're talking about, that they're, you know, conducting violent action against. The development of the Chinese military has, if anything, their trajectory has increased in the last few years. We now have multiple classes of nuclear submarines under production.

• 3:32Speaker 05

  We have the commander of the Office of Naval Intelligence, in testimony recently said that Chinese submarine production is now going to go all nuclear, they're not going to build conventional submarines anymore, which is quite a surprise to me and development. We have their first nuclear-powered aircraft carrier under construction. We have the revelation that they are using even more than we thought commercial shipping in practicing, you know, conducting amphibious assaults. We have increasing numbers of Chinese aircraft crossing the median line of the Taiwan Strait. We now have the Chinese, not just coast guard, but their whole of government, other agencies as well, acting like they own the waters east of Taiwan, waters that are actually, you know, really should be divided between the Philippines and Japan.

• 4:16Speaker 05

  I mean, so the facts on the ground in the Pacific are, if anything, more aggressive than they were in the past. It's just, the US government doesn't seem to be choosing to make a lot of hay about it right now at this point. I guess they've got other things they're busy with.

• 4:33Speaker 04

  Yeah, boys, any questions, go ahead, please.

• 4:36Jack Murphy?

  Well, I mean, I think, you know, based on what you're saying, I'd be interested to hear you expand on the arms production, because my impression, at least, of China is that their strategy in the past has been not to meet us tank for tank, fighter jet for fighter jet, carrier for carrier. Is that still true? And if it is, what do you think, or how do you interpret this sort of, like, I guess, increase in proliferation?

• 5:05Speaker 05

  So I think what we'll see is, until Taiwan is resolved, one way or another, there will be a pretty significant asymmetry between what China is doing and their capabilities are developing, and what we traditionally see is US power-projection capabilities. Because Taiwan's only 100 miles away, right? So you need different capabilities to do that. So, for example, let's talk about amphibious assault vessels. So, you know, when you look at the US Navy and its amphibious assault vessels, you have, you know, large amphibious assault ships, you know, 40,000-plus tons in some cases, they're equipped to operate, you know, thousands of miles from home for months at a time. That's overkill for the Taiwan Strait. You don't, you need something that can efficiently take troops as fast as possible, load them

• 5:50Speaker 05

  as fast as possible, go 100 miles, unload them as fast as possible, come back and get more, right? So, so while China does have and is building more amphibious assault ships that are similar to those that we build, that's not the meat and potatoes of what they would need to do a Taiwan invasion. That's where China uses an asset that it has and we don't have any longer, which is a massive merchant marine. So they're, so the vast majority of the sea lift capacity that China would use, and this is not theoretical, right? We see them practicing doing this routinely in their exercises. So they use civilian vessels that have been modified, built to national defense standards, owned by state-owned companies that are run by the Chinese Communist Party. I mean, literally, the leadership structure of these companies is dual-headed, Chinese Communist Party and Company.

• 6:35Speaker 05

  But, you know, they use these all the time. These are ferries, these are landing craft tank, which I call LCTs, and I can, I can expand on this some more, it was a kind of remarkable discovery last year. So civilian vessels that are used for kind of the dump trucks of the sea that are derived on landing craft designs, we're now seeing them use those in exercises. So that's going to kind of be the meat and potatoes of a Taiwan invasion. On the firepower end of it, it's going to be rocket launchers, like kind of China's HIMARS, so to speak, but that are longer range. So those are capabilities that are asymmetric, that are going to be focused on that kind of assault. Now, at the same time, China is developing capabilities that do look more like the traditional markers of US global power projection.

• 7:19Speaker 05

  So nuclear-powered aircraft carriers, more nuclear submarines, nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarines, tankers, strategic airlift, that's all going to, is starting to look, in some cases, toward, you know, toward the future, where you have a China that has, you know, they made it clear their goal is to have a world-class military. Well, that's the kind of things you have, to have a world-class military that projects power worldwide. So over time, I think it will start to look a little bit more like, like those US capabilities, but they've still got to get past Taiwan first.

• 7:50Jack Murphy?

  And Tom, I'm curious, you know, China is building up a lot of these assets, these physical things, but their forces haven't been tested in combat. And of course, that is a huge question mark of how will they stand up, just like any military, including our own in World War II. You know, there were early moments when we learned a lot of lessons very quickly. And I'm curious, how do you see that playing out? How has China developed kind of a rapid lessons-learn uptake to, in anticipation of something like that happening?

• 8:17Speaker 05

  So I think that that point has validity, the sense that they have not engaged in combat operations. But what I'd say it's important to keep in mind is what kind of combat operations have they engaged in and have we engaged in. So the United States, yes, has engaged in lots of wars over the last, you know, 20 years. However, none of them were against a peer competitor that had anything close to our capabilities. So I think the utility of that and calling a difference between the two is maybe a little less than people might think. Let me give you an example. Between World War I and World War II, you know, the Wehrmacht didn't fight anyone for 20 years.

• 8:58Speaker 05

  There was almost no one in the German army, very few, you know, you had a few really senior officers who had been in World War I 20 years before, but very few of their personnel had been involved in combat with a, with a peer adversary in high-end warfare. On the other hand, you had the UK, who had been engaged in all kinds of brushfire wars, you know, colonial, essentially imperial management around the world against various, we call them third-world countries today. Well, which army was better prepared for high-end combat when the shooting started between peer industrialized nations? I would, I would say, I don't think you would, you would want to look at the Germans and say, well, they weren't ready for the war because they didn't fight, they didn't fight for 20 years, but clearly they were. They were doing the right kind of training for the fighting that they were going to have to do.

• 9:42Speaker 05

  Now, of course, you did have German observers in other conflicts, you know, in the Spanish Civil War, probably observing, I know, I think they were working with the Russians some, probably in the Finland War, might have been observing there.

• 9:53Speaker 04

  The Chinese Civil War, also.

• 9:55Speaker 05

  Yeah, and, well, and who do we have watching the Russo-Ukraine conflict? You've got Chinese observers, they're getting the latest lessons learned, probably at Russian headquarters, seeing how they do business, learning lessons for them. So I'm, I'm not as confident about that. Also, I would keep in mind that we have to look at the fact that any conflict in the Western Pacific is going to be, its decisive elements are probably going to be in the air and at sea. You know, they're going to be air and naval combat. I mean, if there is an attempt to invade Taiwan, the conflict will eventually be finished one way or the other on the ground in Taiwan, but it'll be decided in the air and not in the sea. You know, if, if the Chinese military, through air and sea superiority, has unfettered access

• 10:39Speaker 05

  to Taiwan and can send as much troops and supplies as it wants across, I don't see any way that Taiwan survives that. So, and that, assuming that Taiwan is isolated and can't get supplies like Ukraine can. So. If that conflict is going to be decided in air and at sea, well, when's the last time anybody fought a peer navy at sea? It was not the Iran war, that's for sure. The closest thing we have is the Falklands in the 1980s. So, you know, we have to remember that there's two ships in the United States Navy that have sunk another warship at sea, and that's USS Constitution, which did it in the War of 1812 and is in Boston Harbor. And now we have USS Charlotte, the submarine that sank in, essentially, I wouldn't say

• 11:24Speaker 05

  defenseless, but pretty helpless Iranian frigate. So I don't think either side has a lot of experience in really high-end naval combat. And I think we have to be very careful about thinking otherwise.

• 11:36Jack Murphy?

  I mean, the other question I'd like to ask, and this is more of a political question, I suppose, is sort of the timing. And we've been having this conversation for many years now, and China has made, it's always been China's policy to reintegrate, reunify Taiwan into the mainland. Why hasn't that happened yet? What are the Chinese waiting for? Is the wars in Ukraine, in the Middle East, is that sort of like figuring into their calculus that they don't want to become a global pariah? What do you think is the reason why they haven't made this attempt yet?

• 12:11Speaker 05

  So I always make clear that I am a military analyst, not a political analyst.

• 12:17Jack Murphy?

  I know.

• 12:18Speaker 05

  So I look at it from a military perspective, and I think certainly up until this point, it's been pretty clear that they didn't have the military capability to be able to successfully, to have confidence that they would win an invasion of Taiwan and succeed in the event of a US intervention, that they didn't have the ability to deter a US intervention, and they didn't have the ability, if they failed to deter, to defeat a US intervention. So that's a pretty clear reason why they wouldn't try.

• 12:46Speaker 05

  So the question becomes, when do they reach the point where they do have the confidence that they're going to succeed? That either they have the confidence that they will be able to convince the United States not to intervene, or if the US intervenes, it won't matter, they'll be able to defeat it. So that's why we have to, I think, if you're watching those capabilities that they're developing, I think, I think at this point, probably deterring a US intervention is what they may be hoping for, but if you look at Chinese doctrine, they always say you have to be ready for that intervention of the powerful enemy, they call it, you know, which is their code for the United States. That means they have to be ready for a protracted conflict. They also talk about that in their doctrinal texts. So, you know, that is, I think, what they're worried about.

• 13:31Speaker 05

  I think that's what's kept them from pulling the trigger from a military perspective. So then the question is, will there come a time, you know, Xi Jinping has told the PLA to be ready to execute an invasion or assault on Taiwan in 2027? Are they going to be there? I don't know. I mean, it's hard to tell at this point, but I think they're doing the kinds of things that I would expect them to do to be able to do that.

• 13:53Jack Murphy?

  You might be muted, John.

• 13:55Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah. John's having some mic problems. Yeah, we'll see. John's going, I'll be right back after these messages now. Hello, everyone. If you're hearing this, you are not a member of the Patreon. You can get your hands on ad-free episodes that come out early, and you can ask us questions, maybe we'll answer them. You can also watch the Team House podcast completely ad-free and early, and you can also watch it live as we interview our guests. And it's the best way to support the channel. So if you can, if you're open to it, you can go to patreon.com/the team house. That link is in the description. We appreciate the supporters, and we hope you would consider being one. So it's patreon.com/the team house. Thanks, guys.

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• 16:19Speaker 00

  911, what's your emergency?

• 16:22Speaker 00

  Please help us, they're everywhere. We think they're murder warnings.

• 16:26Speaker 01

  911 Nashville returns.

• 16:29Speaker 02

  What's a homicide detective doing here? Three bodies on the ground.

• 16:32Speaker 01

  With emergencies of biblical proportions.

• 16:34Speaker 03

  I will send swarms upon you and upon your people.

• 16:37Speaker 02

  That's one of the plagues of the Bible.

• 16:39Speaker 03

  And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville.

• 16:42Speaker 01

  Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 16:48Speaker 04

  In your mind, Tom, what's your, like, what's the most pressing issue between the US and China, both militarily and politically? I mean, if they did go in in 2027 and try to take Taiwan, obviously, this is kind of skewing into a political question. Will the US be there to interdict, to stop it, to try and stop it? You know, we're seeing, like, THAAD missile batteries being moved from the in and around the theater and stuff like that. I mean, that obviously signals something to China, right?

• 17:23Speaker 04

  Where are you at with that? Like, where's your thought process there?

• 17:27Speaker 05

  I just don't know at this point. I mean, you know, we had pretty clear statements from the last administration, from the president, from President Biden, that, you know, he said things like, straight up, the United States would intervene in the case of a Chinese assault on Taiwan, where to the point that the administration, you know, the folks below him kind of reeled it back at times and said, well, United States, our policy remains the same as it ever was, you know, strategic ambiguity, you know, we would consider it to be a grave problem, but it doesn't mean we're going to, you know, they would kind of walk that back. President Trump has kind of said things now and then that it's hard to tell where he would go on this, where, you know, he's given indications he would not defend Taiwan in some cases.

• 18:12Speaker 05

  But at the same time, you have a national defense strategy that very explicitly says a goal is to prevent China from gaining control of the first island chain, of which Taiwan is kind of the linchpin in the center of the first island chain. So it's hard to know, quite frankly, what this administration would do in the event of that. I think any administration against the Chinese military that really has been fully prepared is going to face some pretty grave decisions about what to do. This would not be free for the United States to intervene, and China has been looking at this problem for decades now, and is basically building the military that is the scariest that you could deal with, you know, that is built for the American way of war, that is designed to destroy the bases that the US has come to rely upon in the region, that's

• 18:56Speaker 05

  designed to attack the US's highest-value naval units at sea, its aircraft carriers.

• 19:03Speaker 05

  If you look in particular, you know, there was one kind of ominous development recently. The Air Force War College, Air War Colleges, China Aerospace Studies Institute, CASI, recently released a study that they had found using open source imagery, a new type of Chinese missile launcher being tested out in the desert in western China. And what this was, was basically a large rectangular, kind of retractable roof silo complex, but it wasn't just one silo. It appeared to be one kind of building that would have multiple medium-range ballistic MRBM-sized missiles in it.

• 19:47Speaker 05

  And if you do the math, I'm guessing something like 12 to 16 missiles per one of these things. So basically, the roof would roll back, and this thing would launch like a vertical launch system, but full of humongous MRBMs, missiles that can hit all of Japan, potentially Guam or beyond. That's, these were just under development, but this is a couple of years ago, and they moved pretty fast on this stuff. So it's possible that, you know, that sort of thing could be under construction now. Why does that worry me? Because that is the kind of weapon system that is built for a first strike, that's built for them to use it first. It's a use it or to lose it type weapon system. Here you've got a fixed target with a bunch of missiles in one place that are relatively expensive, that could be struck in the event of an ongoing conflict.

• 20:29Speaker 05

  It's very much the kind of thing you use to initiate a conflict or to threaten the start of it. So I talked about this on Twitter, like, this is a textbook first-strike weapon. So to see them testing those a couple of years ago now, this is when these images were taken, makes me wonder, are they being built somewhere? That's the kind of thing that I worry about in conjunction with their improvements in amphibious capacity that indicates they really are making the preparations, the kind of things you would need to be able to, again, either defeat or ideally deter a US intervention.

• 21:00Jack Murphy?

  John, you were about to say, please? Yeah, I was curious, you know, we're talking a lot about the march toward conflict, and I wonder about the march away from conflict. I mean, in early, maybe, let's say, 15, 20 years ago, we allowed RIMPAC to have Chinese observers, we've allowed at other periods of time to have Chinese military folks interacting with us.

• 21:17Speaker 02

  In exchanges and different things, kind of like trying to cool some tensions or at least bring each other closer for various diplomatic reasons. What do you think that the way forward on that could be if you were if you were going to make, you know, a an argument to say that's a good idea, what are some ways the government could actually do that that would be effective?

• 21:36Speaker 05

  So I think the tricky part of those connections between the US military and China is that it's pretty consistently the US has tried to have those hotlines open and the and lines of communications open because I think we see that as useful and part of this based on our experience in the Cold War, you know, we set up a hotline with Moscow for a reason. Uh, and we found that to be useful that from both side for both sides to prevent and on, you know, and on misunderstandings from turning into something bigger. The Chinese, I think, I think have, from what I've read, seem to see this very differently. And that they see those those lines of communication as something to reward us with when we're more behaving the way they like us to behave. Because they know that we seem to want that more than they do.

• 22:21Speaker 05

  They actually, there are accounts that they see as some utility in the lack of those lines of communication, causing us to be more cautious. They want us to be more uncertain about what might happen and that therefore will be more cautious. So they see withdrawing those lines of communication in a crisis as a means of getting us to back down because we're too worried about about a conflict breaking out. So I think they see that in a very different way than we do. Uh, I, you know, I oftentimes see writers in the think tank space say, you know, we should have more. We should have more open lines of communication with China. And I think everybody agrees that you talk to the Chinese about it, you know, you if you want, if you want traction on that, on that argument, write the article in Chinese. Because they're the ones that really are the one are usually blocking that sort of thing.

• 23:06Jack Murphy?

  We, uh, we interviewed a FBI lead at at the embassy in China years ago, and he had this incredible story about how everything with the Chinese is so transactional. Um, and his example was, um, they got word unfortunately of a American citizen at a Chinese school who's abusing children. And they went to the Chinese authorities and said, hey, this, this guy's a bad dude, you know, this is a criminal. He's hurting kids. You need to go and arrest them. And the Chinese were like, okay, you release a couple of our spies, we'll go get them. And the guy was like, what? Like, this isn't like a trade. Like, what are you talking about?

• 23:42Speaker 05

  Wow. Yeah.

• 23:45Speaker 04

  Just for our legal attache, right?

• 23:47Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah.

• 23:48Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 23:49Speaker 02

  Just Actually, I want to jump back in. Tom, you're talking about the first and second island chain. Some years ago, I was in the South China Sea doing some stuff for another partner we had. And we were getting daily Chinese overflights of pairs of Chinese aircraft that basically violating the sovereign airspace of that country. And I'm curious from where you sit and what you analyze, what do you think the role of that second island chain will play for China? If they were to go, if, you know, the main objective is Taiwan, what are they doing in those envelopes around those island chains to kind of enable that operation?

• 24:21Speaker 05

  So China has, if you look at China's naval strategy over time, they've started with the idea of near seas operation. So their first goal was to be able to gain sea control of inside the first island chain. You know, the, so for those not familiar, first island chain is basically Japan down through Taiwan. The Philippines, kind of the first set of island chains that encompass the Yellow Sea, the East China Sea, South China Sea. Second island chain is further out, it's Guam, it's the Marianas, you know, it's down through maybe parts of Indonesia. I don't know if I, I don't know if you call Australia part of it, but but there, the longer term goal in Chinese naval strategy has been to to between the first and second island chains. So in the Philippine Sea, for example,

• 25:04Speaker 05

  it at least get to a point where they have sea denial that they can prevent operations by others. And they call those far seas operations. But to be clear, they do have a goal to gain the gain control of those far seas in the longer term too, to actually get sea control in the in between the first and second island chains. So folks understand what we're talking about here. So they have, so sea denial and sea control, those are work, those are wartime concepts. It's the idea that during a war, sea denial is you preventing the other side from using a given area of water. Not all the time, but in most times, most places. So right now, for example, Iran is essentially waging a sea denial campaign in the Strait of Hormuz. They're basically trying to deny the use of that, not all the time, but most time, most places.

• 25:50Speaker 05

  Whereas the US is attempting to gain sea control over the Strait of Hormuz, where most times and most places we can use that waterway for our use. And we seem to have a limited success there.

• 26:02Speaker 05

  China would be trying to basically at the minimum regain sea control inside the first island chain, sea denial out to the second island chain. Their longer term goal is to gain sea control in out to the second island chain as well. So in wartime, having gained sea control inside the first island chain allows China to keep its ports open. To be able to get imports in and out of China. I think there are a lot of folks that kind of assume that we could shut off China's seaborne imports in wartime. And I think that's a dangerous assumption to make. Because we have to remember that trade out at sea is highly internationalized, like ships that are going to China don't necessarily have a big sign on the side of it that say that we're, I mean, they may be

• 26:46Speaker 05

  broadcasting something on AIS, but it could be a lie. Cargoes get bought and sold en route. So you can't just sink ships in the middle of the Indian Ocean, for example, or maybe even of a locker, you may not know, be able to reliably tell where something's going, even as it goes to the Strait of Malacca. So the only way to really stop shipping from going into China is to threaten the actual entrances to Chinese ports. Well, if China gains sea control where they can effectively protect the approaches to their ports, then it becomes much more difficult to cut them off from seaborne trade. The perfect example I give of that, how difficult this can be is the Ever Given. So maybe people may remember that that was the ship that ran aground in the Strait of, in the, in the Suez Canal a few years ago.

• 27:28Speaker 05

  It was a ship that basically ran aground and was blocking the Suez Canal. That ship was,

• 27:35Speaker 05

  let me see if I can remember, Japanese built, Japanese owned, chartered to a Taiwanese company with, uh, mostly Indian crew carrying goods from China to Europe. I mean, do you sink that ship in the, in the middle of the Indian Ocean? Do you stop it and board it at the Strait of Hormuz? But it is carrying trade from China. So, um, so I think, I think that problem is much more difficult than people think it is. And that's where that first island chain, second island chain stuff really comes to the fore. I think it's worth remembering too. We've gotten a pretty good lesson here with the Strait of Hormuz that you can't make these shippers go through, right? If they're, if they think it's too risky, and that's been a bit of a surprise, I think, to a lot of people, myself included.

• 28:19Speaker 05

  Was that even if you say, hey, we'll convoy you, even if you say we're going to give you insurance, they may still not go, right? If they, if they, if they think the risk is too great. And these shipping companies don't owe any allegiance to the United States, they don't owe any allegiance to our allies. They're flagged all kinds of places, they're owned all kinds of places. So it may be very difficult to have shipping continued to our allies. China's not like that. Right? China has an enormous merchant marine, it's Chinese flagged, it's Chinese owned, it's crewed by Chinese, they can make those guys keep going. And that's where that, I think that physical control inside the first island chain really matters.

• 28:55Speaker 02

  We've talked a lot about the conventional aspect just now, but also with the maritime aspect, the merchant marine kind of moving into the less conventional category or kind of quasi gray zone, let's say. What about the actual unconventional warfare capability in Taiwan? If this thing was to go off, obviously we'd be having a very conventional confrontation, whether that's Taiwan or the US or both against China. What would the unconventional insurgency or other types of resistance that are non-conventional potentially look like?

• 29:23Speaker 05

  That's a tough one for me. I, you know, I really am kind of a maritime air naval analyst for the most part. I mean, Chinese doctrine certainly talks about what they call sabotage operations, which would basically be special forces, you know, they, they're certainly a we see plenty of stories of Taiwanese, uh, former officers and other, you know, Taiwanese citizens that have gotten afoul of the law in, in basically being bought out by the Chinese.

• 29:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:50Speaker 05

  So, so I think they're whether it's money or ethnic cohesion or family ties or whatever. There's certainly, I think, a much more risk of fifth column activities behind the lines than there is potentially with, you know, one nation state versus another nation state, you don't have those connections or different, different ethnicities that, you know, they're, they're different, they look different, you know? I think there's a lot more risk of that, uh, behind the lines in Taiwan. I think the Taiwanese should expect disruptions like that. They should expect some pretty significant, uh, fifth column activities. I do worry about, you know, there being elements of, of the Taiwanese society that kind of open the gates and let, you know, let, let the invaders in potentially.

• 30:32Speaker 05

  I think that, you know, that's why I think, I think autonomy's government has to be very, very careful about that stuff. And I think they are. I think they're, uh, certainly working hard to try to eliminate that sort of thing, but it's definitely a risk. I think that the Chinese military talks about 3D island assault, three dimensional island assault. So there's going to be a significant airborne, uh, angle to it. There's going to be a significant helicopter assault angle to it. That could certainly result in a lot of folks being put down behind the lines. I think you could see, you know, they've got their own special operations forces, you know, there, there's all kinds of things they're probably going to do with those folks.

• 31:09Speaker 05

  China has tens of thousands of fishing boats that they can use to transport small teams to do things that, that's, that's another asymmetric advantage they have. That really doesn't exist anywhere else. So there, there's plenty of opportunity to have a bit of a Swiss cheese effect on, on the Taiwanese defenses in the manner that you're talking about. I think that's what you're, if that answers your question.

• 31:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's really interesting.

• 31:30Jack Murphy?

  Another subject I'd like to touch upon, I mean, maybe this is separate but related, is, uh, rare earth minerals on the seabed. And I, I've seen some papers about this and I was wondering what you think about how those, if, if any of those deposits play into the sort of conflict we've been talking about. And if that relates to, you know, sub, subsurface warfare as well.

• 31:53Speaker 05

  I mean, China, China clearly has put us in a bit of a hammerlock with, with rare earth. I mean, we saw how things didn't go well with the, the trade war that the president initiated against China. They pretty quickly pulled that lever on rare earth and forced, forced the US to back down. How does that apply in a military conflict? I, I think it matters more for a protracted conflict than it does for a short-term one. You know, it's, that's really something that's going to speak to longer-term industrial production and ability to supply munitions and replacement parts.

• 32:26Speaker 05

  And that's part of their game plan, you know, when, when they, when they, their doctrine specifically says for a campaign against the powerful enemy, and again, that's us, that you have to specifically with that enemy, you have to consider the, the possibility of protracted conflict, which is then going to be driven in, in large part by industrial production and, and national resilience. So yeah, their ability to, to have more of a hammer, even more of a hammerlock on that area of industrial production is going to matter. Does it matter as much in wartime? I don't know. I'm not sure if that kind of activity can, can, can continue on. I mean, many of the places that they're looking at to do that are in the Central Pacific. These are not close to China for the most part. So can they sustain that in wartime? I doubt it.

• 33:13Speaker 05

  Now, are there other angles to it? Sure. I mean, a lot of places where these things exist are areas where US vessels would be transiting back and forth, both in peacetime and wartime. Reporters have asked me, could they leave behind things that would be useful for them? Yeah, they could leave behind sensors potentially. If they've got industrial activity, we have to remember, like, anything the Chinese do, like they have a very specific military civil fusion strategy that, that leverages their civilian industry for military purposes. They're quite clear about it, although in recent years they have kind of talked a little less about it because it was so obvious what they were doing. So you should assume that if there's any industrial activity they're taking that could have military benefits, that those are being used for military purposes as well.

• 33:55Speaker 05

  So let's, let's say they are doing it, you know, mineral mining on the bottom of the ocean. If there, if there is a possibility that that activity could have military benefits by harvesting data, by looking at the bottom type, by leaving behind sensors, by whatever, I would assume they're doing it. I mean, there's no reason that they would. These are not, Chinese companies are not normal companies. They don't just operate for profit. They operate at the behest of the CCP. So if there's a military utility, it's something they're doing. You should just see their, their, you should assume that they're getting it.

• 34:24Speaker 04

  I have a question, talking about a protracted fight.

• 34:29Speaker 04

  What would it look like if we weren't a protracted fight with China? And like where our like statuses in terms of shipbuilding is nowhere near. We don't have the capacity anywhere near China, what China does. So let's say a war does last a couple of years and we lose a couple of aircraft carriers or we lose a couple of destroyers. How do we replenish that?

• 34:52Speaker 05

  I mean, I don't know at this point. I'm not, I, I have a hard time imagining us keeping up. They're, they've got such a head start in shipbuilding. I mean, could we improve from where we are? Yes, absolutely. You know, we could reopen shipyards that have been closed, but it takes time to train the people to do that. We have to remember the last time we were in a, you know, as I said, it's been a long time since we were in a peer naval, naval war at sea. Well, the last time we did that was World War II. The last, the last time the US fought a peer competitor at sea was the Battle of Lakehead Gulf in October 1944. So what did that conflict look like from a protracted war perspective? Well, everybody knows, right? The Chinese, I'm sorry, Chinese, the Japanese executed an attack against Pearl Harbor

• 35:36Speaker 05

  and destroyed a significant portion of the US Pacific fleet and yet still lost the war. Because there was a tidal wave of American naval production that had begun in 1938 and 1940. You know, years before that point.

• 35:50Speaker 05

  The, the two, the two ocean Navy acts of 1938, 1940 financed humongous increases in the size of the US Navy. So that, that large capital ship production was already happening at the time the war started. It didn't really matter if the, if the Japanese lost, had won or lost the Battle of Midway. They still would have been overwhelmed by US carrier production. It didn't really matter what happened at the Battle of the Coral Sea. They still would have been overwhelmed by US, you know, capital ship production. So the thing that's scary to me about the Chinese at this point is they're the ones practicing executing the Pearl Harbor attack on the US in the form of a surprise attack using ballistic missiles and other, and other weapons. But they also have the huge industrial production on their side. So it's like, well, I'm worried about a Pearl Harbor happening to us

• 36:35Speaker 05

  and we're the ones that, that are going to get outproduced after the attack is over and after we've incurred those losses. So I am deeply worried about, about that capacity. I think it also, when you look at the ability to, to, to deal with battle damage, you know, China has, the US Navy in peacetime, without any battle damage, is having a great deal of difficulty just completing its normal maintenance just from our ships getting used, not necessarily being, you know, caught, incurring battle damage. The Chinese shipbuilding industry, it's, again, it's dual purpose. The same shipyard pumps out warships that pumps out commercial vessels and they also do overhauls and refits on military vessels as well. So that's more capacity, again, than in, in the event of a conflict could be used to repair battle damage as well.

• 37:20Speaker 05

  So yeah, I'm deeply worried about that asymmetry in, in shipyard capacity in the event of a protracted war.

• 37:27Speaker 02

  Speaking of asymmetries, especially in, in special operations world, a lot of times we heard about Unrestricted Warfare, the book that was written in 1999 by two PLAAF colonels. This was kind of like the source document that we had a lot, when, especially talking about great power competition and like how does SOCOM fit into that and all so on. That was like the doctrinal book we had from the other side. How much weight does that still actually hold from the other side? If it ever did, if you know.

• 37:54Speaker 05

  I, I tend to focus on the doctrinal texts that I look at are the Science of Campaigns from 2006. Cause those are more like the joint. First of all, they're highly authoritative, so they're, they're published by their National Defense University. So 2006 Science of Campaigns, the 2013 Science of Military Strategy, and then a 2020 version. One problem we have is that a lot of that production has dropped off. Like there's fewer of those texts that are now being released into the open source world. So it's hard to know. Obviously, there's been a lot of changes and a lot of lessons that have been learned from the, the Russo-Ukraine war and drones in the last few years. So I'm sure there have been changes to, to the way China is looking at, at combat like that. But it's difficult to know because they don't really replace the, they haven't really released those, the replacements for those texts.

• 38:39Speaker 05

  That being said, I think much of the the, the larger, you know, bigger muscle movement military that we see being in production now is, I think it makes sense to see from a doctrine, from a document like that from 20 years ago. That's kind of the timeline for this is how we're going to do this, this thing. Okay, well, let's start working on the product, the weapon system development and then the testing and the, you know, 20-year timeline is kind of consistent with that. So it makes sense that we'd be seeing a Chinese military that in its kind of longer-term, larger capital investment areas like ballistic missiles, hypersonics, using merchant, because they, they talk in Science of Campaigns about using merchant, merchant, you know, merchant ships to supplement, you know, sea lift.

• 39:23Speaker 05

  We see the, the carriers being built. I mean, all that kind of stuff is, is on that timeline. So those tend to be the documents that I'm used. There's some fantastic translations by, again, CASI, China Aerospace Studies Institute, has translated some of those documents. The trouble is, again, we're not seeing much in, in recent years. That's really dropped off a lot.

• 39:42Speaker 02

  There's a book by Fravel called Active Defense. I don't know if you've read that, he's at Princeton, that talks about kind of the idea of luring the enemy in deep and then engulfing them, which is based off like earlier Maoist thought, but it has for some time remained. I don't know if it still remains. I'm curious, you know, from that strategic perspective, is that still a valid concept for them?

• 40:02Speaker 05

  Sure. I mean, active defense is, that is still something they've, at least again, in the documents we have, they still do talk about active defense. But they also talk, you know, more recently, informationized warfare and then intelligentized warfare are kind of the more recent expansions to that. We've got to remember too, active defense is China's way in some regard of saying that whatever they do is defensive, right? So, so like, for example, if, let's say Taiwan declares independence and they launch a humongous ballistic missile strike on Taiwan, they would say that was defensive, right? They were, China, Taiwan had insulted us, had, had caused us damage in the political, you know, arena.

• 40:45Speaker 05

  And so we are defending ourselves politically by launching this huge ballistic missile strike. That is not something anybody else on the planet is going to be considered a defensive measure, but they will still call it active defense in that regard. Or let's say that, you know, they saw the US had turned on the O Plan and was spinning up the TIPFID to start, you know, sending, getting all our forces out there. And then they launched a strike on our bases in, in Asia. They would call that defensive. They would say, they would call that active defense. So it's kind of a convenient way politically for them to call whatever it is they're doing as, as a defensive thing.

• 41:19Speaker 04

  What's O Plan in TIF?

• 41:22Speaker 05

  O Plan, you know, O Plan's operational plan, so the, the theater level operational plan for whatever it is you're doing, Defense of Korea, Defense of Taiwan. And then the TIPFID is the TPFDD

• 41:36Speaker 05

  Plan Force, I forget what it all stands for.

• 41:38Speaker 04

  Sorry, I'm putting you on the spot.

• 41:40Speaker 05

  It's basically the giant, the big, you know, gonkulator plan of how to get all the stuff over there that we need to execute the O Plan essentially.

• 41:48Speaker 04

  I'm just for the, for the audience and me too. I didn't know what that meant.

• 41:51Speaker 05

  Sure.

• 41:53Speaker 04

  Talking a little bit more about the, like the protracted war that, that they're planning for. Are you worried at all about like the DOD and it's like kind of slow procurement process and able, like the ability for it to adjust? Like we're seeing it a bit in Iran right now with our missile defense, obviously. We probably would have been in a better spot if we had some low-cost drones to be able to, you know, knock out the ballistic missiles and drones that are heading over to our bases. Are you worried about something like that? Let's say a conflict lasted, you know, years. Our, our kind of inability to adjust and improvise?

• 42:30Speaker 05

  I think that, well, to some degree, you know, necessity is the mother invention, right? So where do we see the most aggressive innovation and action happening? You know, it's in Ukraine, it's in Russia, because they have to, right? There's, nobody gets bent out of shape about, about the relatively small risks that you might be taking when the larger risk is that you're going to lose a war and, you know, get killed. So it's extremely difficult, I think, to cause change at the scale that it needs to happen at in a peacetime military. And yes, we're fighting a war against Iran and there is innovation happening there, but it's not an existential war for the United States.

• 43:13Speaker 05

  You still have bureaucratic imperatives that can override things. You can still have, you know, if you're building a runway somewhere, you know, environmental issues, you can have all kinds of rules that Congress has put in place about sourcing things, buy American rules, like a lot of that can get in the way of doing things. That's what we call red tape, right? I mean, it's all, all of it, every, every, every little bit of red tape is somebody's good idea, right? Like, I mean, somebody says, hey, we should make sure we're not buying things that are Iranian sourced. Yeah, it sounds great, right? So that's one more bureaucratic requirement because the bureaucrat is, there has to be some person that verifies that, yes, we're in fact not buying stuff from, that's Chinese source. Or that's what we call a bureaucrat, right? It's some expert that makes sure you're actually doing what you said the rule.

• 43:57Speaker 05

  It seemed like a good idea at the time, you know, that when you combine all those things together and it makes it harder and harder and harder to do things. Ultimately, if you have a no kidding existential war, you can say that is all off the table, all the requirements are waived, declare an emergency, and you can move forward faster, but it's difficult to do that in the absence of existential conflict. So I do worry about our ability to move fast and there are some good signs for sure. You see a lot of defense, new defense startups that are doing interesting things. But what I worry about is that some of those, certainly in the event of an air and naval dominated conflict, aren't quite as transformational as people might think they are.

• 44:40Speaker 05

  You know, one of my, one of my sayings that I'm semi-famous for in Twitter circles is there are no magic beans, right? There's no, there's no magic beans, there's no free lunches. Like drones, for example, at sea, I mean, they're not as new at sea as people think they are, right? The US, the US, you know, during the Cold War, we worried about cruise missiles, right? Scary Russian cruise missiles, Mach 3. We worried about homing torpedoes, right? Those are basically drones. So what, you know, you say, hey, there's a one-way attack drone that's going to attack ships at sea. Well, yeah, those are called cruise missiles, right? And quite honestly, a 100 mile per hour cruise missile that's propeller powered is not as scary as what we've been dealing with now for decades.

• 45:23Speaker 05

  If you look at the ranges involved in some of those weapon systems, if you look at the huge blue Pacific, right? They're not, they just don't operate that far in many cases. So I think things may be a little less transformational than some folks think. So some of those defense startups that are kind of their shining light of hope may not be quite as transformational in a high-end air and naval war as people might think.

• 45:45Speaker 05

  I do think, so if you look at the, on the shipbuilding question, you know, one thing I saw pointed out the other day that where the US actually does have an asymmetric advantage is in boat production. So if you look at US boat production, the US is, I think, the world's largest producer of boats. Not ships, but boats. So like, and a lot of it's driven by US boating, the boating community, right?

• 46:06Speaker 04

  Yeah, want to go out on the lake and, you know,

• 46:08Speaker 05

  Yeah, go down the lake. Well, guess what? You can take that same hull form and put a GPS, you know, so I already got a GPS on it. You know, you could put some sign up, some sort of autonomous thing on it, load it full of TNT, and now you've got a, you've got a one-way attack drone. And we have plenty of the world's largest producers of that sort of thing. Personal watercraft and all these, all these Ukrainian USVs, a lot of them are basically modified jet skis. We're actually pretty well placed to do that. The problem is, how do you get something like that 6,000 miles across the Pacific? So unless we're fighting a war here, then we've really got problems.

• 46:40Speaker 02

  That power projection problem, that brings up an excellent point about allies and partners. Because you remember, you know, the 2021 NDS, for example, mentioned allies and partners like 128 times, something like that. So obviously we have allies and partners, Indonesia, Philippines, Australia, you know, you name it, they're there. We've been working shoulder to shoulder with them, not just Taiwan, but also obviously Japan with the SOFA in a, you know, enhanced defense security cooperation agreement with Philippines. All this is like kind of designed just for that battle. So let's say that battle starts, whatever that looks like, not for our allies and partners, but what about China's allies and partners? You know, they've got security cooperation agreements with Russia and Iran of varying degrees, you know, and other countries around, especially, you know, Solomon Islands, for example. What's, what are the Solomons going to do?

• 47:24Speaker 02

  What kind of basing access and overflight is China looking for? I'm curious from that kind of perspective.

• 47:30Speaker 05

  That's a great question and it's, for one thing, they certainly don't have the same number as we do. I mean, you know, what's, I don't, like, I have a hard time imagining Russia choosing to get into a kinetic war with the United States just to help China take Taiwan. But let's say the Russians just send the Pacific Fleet out, right? They don't, they don't, they're not sending them out to actually shoot at us, but they just send them out. And all of a sudden, we have to worry about that, like, we have to cover down on that. So when we've already got our hands full with the Chinese Navy, now you've got this huge distraction of, let's say, a bunch of Russian submarines out roaming around the Central Pacific or Eastern Pacific.

• 48:05Speaker 05

  You know, that could certainly make things much more complicated. Let's say the North Koreans are, start rattling their saber and they've at least doing enough that the South Koreans decide, you know what? We don't really want you using our, our airfields in this conflict over Taiwan because we're, we're, we don't want to get North Korea into this. They could certainly do things to make life much more complicated.

• 48:27Speaker 05

  I don't see them, I don't think I see those, you know, Russian, North Korea actively engaging in combat operations, but they could certainly make an already strapped US force, an US and allied force, have that much more to worry about, at least cover down on. The Central Pacific, I mean, you know, it's sensible that they would be building, building bridges there for the future. Because, you know, let's face it, a Chinese Navy that in 15 or 20 years is the equal of the US Pacific Fleet, that is not a Navy that has to fight the US Pacific Fleet in the Western Pacific. They can push out to the Central Pacific now at that point. And now those places start to matter a lot more for the basing and access, right? So the Chinese haven't built a lot of naval bases overseas,

• 49:10Speaker 05

  but Chinese contractors have built a lot of ports and airfields overseas that are ostensibly commercial.

• 49:17Speaker 05

  And so seeing these kinds of things in development in places like that, that could someday be a Chinese base. And in some cases, maybe whether the locals want it to be or not, I have to remember that.

• 49:27Speaker 02

  And actually, the Gwadar port in Pakistan that's run by China, I'm curious, what role might something like that far-flung, or Djibouti, for example, they have troops there as well. What role might those far-flung places play if the war, like, kicked off in Taiwan?

• 49:41Speaker 05

  So I think where that matters is, you know, China's made quite clear in their defense white papers that maintaining their sea lines of communication is a huge priority, right? Would make sense, right? They are, they're the world's largest trading nation. They're the world's largest exporter, they have the world's largest, largest merchant marine. So that really matters to them. And if you look at the sources of raw materials that China has, like, some of the key sources are across the Indian Ocean. So it's raw materials or whatnot from Africa and energy from the Middle East. So we should expect to see them, you know, create infrastructure over time that would allow them in conflict to be able to try to maintain those sea lines of communication.

• 50:24Speaker 05

  So Guada, that's an example, that where they've been, we're trying to make inroads in the Maldives. Tanzania, there's plenty of places across those, across the Indian Ocean in particular, that you see them in making investments in the kinds of places that you would imagine they would be interested in. You know, one thing I found kind of interesting in a lot of these places is they're, they tend to be a little bit out of the country. You know, Hampton Tote Port, for example, in Sri Lanka, water's kind of out there in the country. Why does that matter? Well, I mean, they will, people will say things like, well, the local host nation has said that this isn't for military use. Well, what if it doesn't matter what the locals think? I mean, in World War II, right? We fought our way across the Pacific, we built bases all over the place.

• 51:09Speaker 05

  Does anybody even know what the local community's thought about, about the bases that we use to fight our way across the Pacific? Do you think we asked? I mean, Xi Jinping is not going to let his own people decide whether he launches or wins or loses World War III. He certainly doesn't care what they're going to care what the Sri Lankans think. If he has a defensible base that he can use and put PLA and Marines around it and tell the locals, hey, we're going to use this, for what we're going to use it for, and just stay out of it. You know, that, that's how that, I think, potentially could work. So if they've built the facility, if it's there, if it can be used in the event of a high-end conflict, I would expect it to be used, regardless of any previous agreements or what anybody said about what it's for.

• 51:50Speaker 04

  Jack, you got something?

• 51:51Jack Murphy?

  Um, I mean, I guess the last thing, and we touched on it briefly, is the subject of depletion of stockpiles of ballistic missiles, cruise missiles and so on. And John and I have talked about this before. I mean, there's just, over the weekend, I believe, Mike Walz was in the press talking about this, you know, blaming the last administration for it being depleted and then saying, actually, it's not depleted. But politics aside, I think that goes to your procurement and sustainment side of this conversation. Has, what you're seeing in our fight with Iran and the depletion of weapon stockpiles, is that concerning for you as we move into a theoretical conflict with China in the future?

• 52:35Speaker 05

  So I have to say that

• 52:39Speaker 05

  it may surprise people to hear me say that I'm not quite, I don't think the depletion of interceptor stockpiles makes quite as big of a difference for

• 52:52Speaker 05

  You know, for China's calculus and deciding whether to pull off something because I'm not sure those stockpiles are really going to matter much after the first salvo. Regardless of how deep the magazine is at the US bases in Asia, I expect the interceptor batteries to be overwhelmed by the sheer number of Chinese missiles. I mean, I have a hard time imagining that our stockpiles are going to get so low that there isn't one set of missiles on the rails, ready to go for that first shot. But I mean, Chinese doctrine is pretty straightforward that the some of the first things they hit on in a firepower strike is ballistic missile defenses, right? They have, they have, you know, DF-27 hypersonic missiles that are probably very difficult to shoot down and appear to be pretty accurate.

• 53:37Speaker 05

  That's the kind of thing I would expect them to use to destroy BMD rather than deplete it. So, you know, how, how many sets of reloads we have in the magazine on base? I'm not sure it matters all that much, to be honest.

• 53:49Speaker 04

  When the launcher is blown up.

• 53:50Speaker 05

  If the launchers are destroyed and the runways are cratered and you can't fly anything in anyways and, and the, you know, and the, and the crews that operate them have been killed by anti-personnel airbursts. And I mean, I just.

• 54:02Speaker 02

  You're, you're picturing sort of like, like our base in Bahrain that got just overwhelmed and evacuated.

• 54:08Speaker 05

  Far beyond that. I mean, like, you know, people, I think people look at what the Iranian missiles have done and, and oh, they shot 100 missiles at our carrier and none of them hit. Okay. Iran is not China, right? The PLA Rocket Force is not the IRGC Quds Force. They are not the same. Go look at Iran's version of a stealth fighter and compare it to China's actual version. Go look at Iran's version of a frigate and compare it to an actual Chinese frigate. I mean, they're just not the same thing. It's harder to tell those differences with missiles, I think, because they kind of all look the same to people as opposed to the kind of look at cardboard looking stealth fighters at the Iranian's, you know, parade. But I think the differences are just as deep.

• 54:50Speaker 05

  And I think any confidence, and we've seen how challenging it was even with Iranian missiles to defend our bases. And yet, we seem to not be refusing to harden anything in the Western Pacific. The Air Force isn't budgeting any money for it. I beat this drum over and over again. That is to say nothing of drones. Like, let's remember, China is the world's largest drone producer. There, I worry deeply about drone strikes on, you know, people may recall Operation Spiderweb, right? The Ukrainian attack on Russian airbases. I worry a lot about that kind of thing happening to us. That can make the Bahrain stuff look relatively tame in a lot of ways.

• 55:31Speaker 04

  Tom, we got to get you back, man. This was great, great episode. Um, I mean, I don't feel great about it, obviously.

• 55:40Speaker 05

  Everybody says that. They talk to me like, so much fun to talk to you. We're screwed. Hopefully not.

• 55:45Speaker 04

  Yeah. Um, I want everyone to go and check out Tom. If you have something to plug, man, feel free that I didn't hit.

• 55:51Speaker 05

  I'll, I'll provide links to you guys for some of the things that I mentioned and you can feel free to put those in there if you want.

• 55:58Speaker 04

  Yeah, the links will be down in the description and in the show notes if you're listening on audio. Um, and Tom is a great Twitter follow. If you're interested in this, he is, he's got his ear to the ground. He knows what's, he knows what's going on. Of course, Jonathan Hackett, Jack, all their links are in the description as well. Tom, a pleasure. We got to do it again.

• 56:16Speaker 05

  Thank you, gentlemen.

• 56:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, thank you.

• 56:18Speaker 05

  It was great. Thank you.

• 56:20Speaker 07

  Hey y'all, it's Lauren LaRosa and y'all know I always have the latest. So on my new audio series, Love Lately, I'm getting into the conversations we're really having about love, relationships, and our sexual health. Every week, it's me and Dr. Contessa Metcalf, my big sister with a medical degree, breaking down what the culture says versus what the doctor says and helping make sense of it all, get into it. You know, the thing me and my friends don't really talk about is like how you're having conversations with people about getting tested. I'll be honest, so many women don't feel comfortable talking about it and they don't feel comfortable advocating for themselves. But let's go ahead and just put you in a position to where you can kind of empower yourself and it, it isn't something, it's not a judgment thing.

• 57:05Speaker 07

  It brings that peace of mind that y'all can just do what y'all do and have a good time. Yeah. I say get tested together and that's beautiful. Bring you closer together. Listen to Love Lately with Lauren LaRosa from iHeart's Ruby Studio on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by Gilead Sciences.

• 57:27Speaker 01

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 57:59Speaker 00

  911, what's your emergency? Please help us. They're everywhere.

• 58:06Speaker 01

  We think they're murder wantons. 911 Nashville returns.

• 58:11Speaker 03

  It's a homicide detective down here. Three bodies on the ground.

• 58:14Speaker 01

  With emergencies of biblical proportions.

• 58:16Speaker 03

  Hell, sin swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues of the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville.

• 58:23Speaker 01

  Brian Phillippe, 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 58:29Jack Murphy?

  Hey guys, I want to take a moment to tell you about the Team House Podcast newsletter. If you go and subscribe, it's totally free and what it will do is aggregate all of our data, all of our content that we put out, the things that are on the Team House, on our geopolitics podcast, Eyes On, things that I write journalistically with Sean Naylor on the high side, anything else that we have going on, books we recommend, upcoming guests that we have coming on the show, and also, you know, filtering in some fun stuff in there as well. If you go and check it out, we send it out just once a week. We don't want to spam you guys.

• 59:10Jack Murphy?

  It's just a kind of roll up of all of our content on a weekly basis. You can find our newsletter at teamhousepodcast.kit.com/join. Again, the website for that is teamhousepodcast.kit.com/join. So we hope to see you there. The link will be down.

• 59:30Speaker 07

  Hey y'all, it's Lauren LaRosa and y'all know I always have the latest. So on my new audio series, Love Lately, I'm getting into the conversations we're really having about love, relationships, and our sexual health. Every week, it's me and Dr. Contessa Metcalf, my big sister with a medical degree, breaking down what the culture says versus what the doctor says and helping make sense of it all, get into it. You know, the thing me and my friends don't really talk about is like how you're having conversations with people about getting tested. I'll be honest, so many women don't feel comfortable talking about it and they don't feel comfortable advocating for themselves. But let's go ahead and just put you in a position to where you can kind of empower yourself and it, it isn't something, it's not a judgment thing.

• 1:00:13Speaker 07

  It brings that peace of mind that y'all can just do what y'all do and have a good time. Yeah. I say get tested together and that's beautiful. Bring you closer together. Listen to Love Lately with Lauren LaRosa from iHeart's Ruby Studio on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by Gilead Sciences.

• 1:00:35Speaker 00

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval. 911, what's your emergency? Please help us. They're everywhere.

• 1:01:13Speaker 01

  We think they're murder wantons. 911 Nashville returns.

• 1:01:18Speaker 03

  It's a homicide detective down here. Three bodies on the ground.

• 1:01:21Speaker 01

  With emergencies of biblical proportions.

• 1:01:23Speaker 03

  Hell, sin swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues of the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville.

• 1:01:31Speaker 01

  Brian Phillippe, 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 1:01:36Jack Murphy?

  In the description.

• 1:01:37Speaker 07

  Hey y'all, it's Lauren LaRosa and y'all know I always have the latest. So on my new audio series, Love Lately, I'm getting into the conversations we're really having about love, relationships, and our sexual health. Every week, it's me and Dr. Contessa Metcalf, my big sister with a medical degree, breaking down what the culture says versus what the doctor says and helping make sense of it all, get into it. You know, the thing me and my friends don't really talk about is like how you're having conversations with people about getting tested. I'll be honest, so many women don't feel comfortable talking about it and they don't feel comfortable advocating for themselves.

• 1:02:19Speaker 07

  But let's go ahead and just put you in a position to where you can kind of empower yourself and it, it isn't. It's not a judgment thing. It brings that peace of mind that y'all can just do what y'all do and have a good time. Yeah. I say get tested together and that's beautiful. Brings you closer together. Listen to Love Lately with Lauren LaRosa from iHeart's Ruby Studio on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by Gilead Sciences.

• 1:02:50Speaker 01

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star Trust Pilot Reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:03:19Speaker 00

  911, what's your emergency?

• 1:03:22Speaker 07

  Please help us. They're everywhere.

• 1:03:24Speaker 00

  We think they're murder hornets.

• 1:03:26Speaker 01

  911 Nashville returns.

• 1:03:29Speaker 03

  What's a homicide detective doing here? Three bodies on the ground.

• 1:03:32Speaker 01

  With emergencies of biblical proportions.

• 1:03:35Speaker 03

  Oh, since swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues of the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville.

• 1:03:42Speaker 01

  Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 1:03:54Speaker 07

  Hey, y'all, it's Lauren LaRosa and y'all know I always have the latest. So on my new audio series, Love Lately, I'm getting into the conversations we're really having about love, relationships, and our sexual health. Every week, it's me and Dr. Contessa Metcalf, my big sister with a medical degree, breaking down what the culture says versus what the doctor says and helping make sense of it all. Get into it. You know, the thing me and my friends don't really talk about is like how you're having conversations with people about getting tested. I'll be honest, so many women don't feel comfortable talking about it and they don't feel comfortable advocating for themselves. But let's go ahead and just put you in a position to where you can kind of empower yourself and it isn't, it's not a judgment thing.

• 1:04:37Speaker 07

  It brings that peace of mind that y'all can just do what y'all do and have a good time. Yeah. I say get tested together and that's beautiful. Brings you closer together. Listen to Love Lately with Lauren LaRosa from iHeart's Ruby Studio on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by Gilead Sciences.

• 1:05:01Speaker 00

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:05:33Speaker 00

  911, what's your emergency?

• 1:05:36Speaker 07

  Please help us. They're everywhere.

• 1:05:38Speaker 00

  We think they're murder hornets.

• 1:05:40Speaker 01

  911 Nashville returns.

• 1:05:43Speaker 03

  What's a homicide detective doing here? Three bodies on the ground.

• 1:05:46Speaker 01

  With emergencies of biblical proportions.

• 1:05:49Speaker 03

  Oh, since swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues of the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville.

• 1:05:56Speaker 01

  Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 1:06:07Speaker 07

  Hey, y'all, it's Lauren LaRosa and y'all know I always have the latest. So on my new audio series, Love Lately, I'm getting into the conversations we're really having about love, relationships, and our sexual health. Every week, it's me and Dr. Contessa Metcalf, my big sister with a medical degree, breaking down what the culture says versus what the doctor says and helping make sense of it all. Get into it. You know, the thing me and my friends don't really talk about is like how you're having conversations with people about getting tested. I'll be honest, so many women don't feel comfortable talking about it and they don't feel comfortable advocating for themselves. But let's go ahead and just put you in a position to where you can kind of empower yourself and it isn't, it's not a judgment thing.

• 1:06:51Speaker 07

  It brings that peace of mind that y'all can just do what y'all do and have a good time. Yeah. I say get tested together and that's beautiful. Brings you closer together. Listen to Love Lately with Lauren LaRosa from iHeart's Ruby Studio on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by Gilead Sciences.

• 1:07:15Speaker 01

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star Trust Pilot Reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:07:43Speaker 00

  911, what's your emergency?

• 1:07:47Speaker 07

  Please help us. They're everywhere.

• 1:07:49Speaker 00

  We think they're murder hornets.

• 1:07:51Speaker 01

  911 Nashville returns.

• 1:07:54Speaker 03

  What's a homicide detective doing here? Three bodies on the ground.

• 1:07:57Speaker 01

  With emergencies of biblical proportions.

• 1:07:59Speaker 03

  Oh, since swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues of the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville.

• 1:08:06Speaker 01

  Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 1:08:18Speaker 07

  Hey, y'all, it's Lauren LaRosa and y'all know I always have the latest. So on my new audio series, Love Lately, I'm getting into the conversations we're really having about love, relationships, and our sexual health. Every week, it's me and Dr. Contessa Metcalf, my big sister with a medical degree, breaking down what the culture says versus what the doctor says and helping make sense of it all. Get into it. You know, the thing me and my friends don't really talk about is like how you're having conversations with people about getting tested. I'll be honest, so many women don't feel comfortable talking about it and they don't feel comfortable advocating for themselves. But let's go ahead and just put you in a position to where you can kind of empower yourself and it isn't, it's not a judgment thing.

• 1:09:01Speaker 07

  It brings that peace of mind that y'all can just do what y'all do and have a good time. Yeah. I say get tested together and that's beautiful. Brings you closer together. Listen to Love Lately with Lauren LaRosa from iHeart's Ruby Studio on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by Gilead Sciences.

• 1:09:25Speaker 01

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:09:56Speaker 00

  911, what's your emergency?

• 1:10:00Speaker 07

  Please help us. They're everywhere.

• 1:10:02Speaker 00

  We think they're murder hornets.

• 1:10:04Speaker 01

  911 Nashville returns.

• 1:10:07Speaker 03

  What's a homicide detective doing here? Three bodies on the ground.

• 1:10:10Speaker 01

  With emergencies of biblical proportions.

• 1:10:12Speaker 03

  Oh, since swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues of the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville.

• 1:10:19Speaker 01

  Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 1:10:32Speaker 07

  Hey, y'all, it's Lauren LaRosa and y'all know I always have the latest. So on my new audio series, Love Lately, I'm getting into the conversations we're really having about love, relationships, and our sexual health. Every week, it's me and Dr. Contessa Metcalf, my big sister with a medical degree, breaking down what the culture says versus what the doctor says and helping make sense of it all. Get into it. You know, the thing me and my friends don't really talk about is like how you're having conversations with people about getting tested. I'll be honest, so many women don't feel comfortable talking about it and they don't feel comfortable advocating for themselves. But let's go ahead and just put you in a position to where you can kind of empower yourself and it isn't, it's not a judgment thing.

• 1:11:16Speaker 07

  It brings that peace of mind that y'all can just do what y'all do and have a good time. Yeah. I say get tested together and that's beautiful. Brings you closer together. Listen to Love Lately with Lauren LaRosa from iHeart's Ruby Studio on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by Gilead Sciences.

• 1:11:40Speaker 01

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star Trust Pilot Reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:12:09Speaker 00

  911, what's your emergency?

• 1:12:12Speaker 07

  Please help us. They're everywhere.

• 1:12:14Speaker 00

  We think they're murder hornets.

• 1:12:16Speaker 01

  911 Nashville returns.

• 1:12:19Speaker 03

  What's a homicide detective doing here? Three bodies on the ground.

• 1:12:22Speaker 01

  With emergencies of biblical proportions.

• 1:12:25Speaker 03

  Oh, since swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues of the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville.

• 1:12:32Speaker 01

  Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 1:12:44Speaker 07

  Hey, y'all, it's Lauren LaRosa and y'all know I always have the latest. So on my new audio series, Love Lately, I'm getting into the conversations we're really having about love, relationships, and our sexual health. Every week, it's me and Dr. Contessa Metcalf, my big sister with a medical degree, breaking down what the culture says versus what the doctor says and helping make sense of it all. Get into it. You know, the thing me and my friends don't really talk about is like how you're having conversations with people about getting tested. I'll be honest, so many women don't feel comfortable talking about it and they don't feel comfortable advocating for themselves. But let's go ahead and just put you in a position to where you can

• 1:13:23Speaker 00

  Kind of empower yourself and it isn't something, it's not a judgment thing. It brings that peace of mind that y'all can just do what y'all do and have a good time. Yeah. I say get tested together and that's beautiful. Brings you closer together.

• 1:13:38Speaker 07

  Listen to Love Lately with Lauren LaRosa from iHeart's Ruby Studio on the iHeart Radio App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by Gilead Sciences.

• 1:13:51Speaker 01

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:14:20Speaker 00

  911, what's your emergency? Please help us, they're everywhere. We think they're murder warnings.

• 1:14:28Speaker 01

  911 Nashville returns.

• 1:14:30Speaker 03

  What's a homicide detective doing here? Three bodies on the ground.

• 1:14:33Speaker 01

  With emergencies of biblical proportions.

• 1:14:36Speaker 03

  I will send swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues for Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville.

• 1:14:43Speaker 01

  Brian Philippi joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 1:14:55Speaker 07

  Hey y'all, it's Lauren LaRosa and y'all know I always have the latest. So on my new audio series, Love Lately, I'm getting into the conversations we're really having about love, relationships, and our sexual health. Every week, it's me and Dr. Contessa Metcalf, my big sister with a medical degree, breaking down what the culture says versus what the doctor says and helping make sense of it all. Get into it. You know, the thing me and my friends don't really talk about is like how you're having conversations with people about getting tested. I'll be honest, so many women don't feel comfortable talking about it and they don't feel comfortable advocating for themselves. But let's go ahead and just put you in a position to where you can kind of empower yourself and it isn't something, it's not a judgment thing.

• 1:15:38Speaker 07

  It brings that peace of mind that y'all can just do what y'all do and have a good time. Yeah. I say get tested together and that's beautiful. Brings you closer together. Listen to Love Lately with Lauren LaRosa from iHeart's Ruby Studio on the iHeart Radio App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by Gilead Sciences.

• 1:16:02Speaker 00

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval. 911, what's your emergency?

• 1:16:37Speaker 00

  Please help us, they're everywhere. We think they're murder warnings.

• 1:16:41Speaker 01

  911 Nashville returns.

• 1:16:44Speaker 03

  What's a homicide detective doing here? Three bodies on the ground.

• 1:16:47Speaker 01

  With emergencies of biblical proportions.

• 1:16:50Speaker 03

  I will send swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues for Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville.

• 1:16:57Speaker 01

  Brian Philippi joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 1:17:09Speaker 07

  Hey y'all, it's Lauren LaRosa and y'all know I always have the latest. So on my new audio series, Love Lately, I'm getting into the conversations we're really having about love, relationships, and our sexual health. Every week, it's me and Dr. Contessa Metcalf, my big sister with a medical degree, breaking down what the culture says versus what the doctor says and helping make sense of it all. Get into it. You know, the thing me and my friends don't really talk about is like how you're having conversations with people about getting tested. I'll be honest, so many women don't feel comfortable talking about it and they don't feel comfortable advocating for themselves. But let's go ahead and just put you in a position to where you can kind of empower yourself and it isn't something, it's not a judgment thing.

• 1:17:53Speaker 07

  It brings that peace of mind that y'all can just do what y'all do and have a good time. Yeah. I say get tested together and that's beautiful. Brings you closer together. Listen to Love Lately with Lauren LaRosa from iHeart's Ruby Studio on the iHeart Radio App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by Gilead Sciences.

• 1:18:17Speaker 01

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:18:48Speaker 00

  911, what's your emergency?

• 1:18:51Speaker 00

  Please help us, they're everywhere. We think they're murder warnings.

• 1:18:55Speaker 01

  911 Nashville returns.

• 1:18:58Speaker 03

  What's a homicide detective doing here? Three bodies on the ground.

• 1:19:01Speaker 01

  With emergencies of biblical proportions.

• 1:19:04Speaker 03

  I will send swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues for Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville.

• 1:19:11Speaker 01

  Brian Philippi joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 1:19:25Speaker 07

  Hey y'all, it's Lauren LaRosa and y'all know I always have the latest. So on my new audio series, Love Lately, I'm getting into the conversations we're really having about love, relationships, and our sexual health. Every week, it's me and Dr. Contessa Metcalf, my big sister with a medical degree, breaking down what the culture says versus what the doctor says and helping make sense of it all. Get into it. You know, the thing me and my friends don't really talk about is like how you're having conversations with people about getting tested. I'll be honest, so many women don't feel comfortable talking about it and they don't feel comfortable advocating for themselves. But let's go ahead and just put you in a position to where you can kind of empower yourself and it isn't something, it's not a judgment thing.

• 1:20:08Speaker 07

  It brings that peace of mind that y'all can just do what y'all do and have a good time. Yeah. I say get tested together and that's beautiful. Brings you closer together. Listen to Love Lately with Lauren LaRosa from iHeart's Ruby Studio on the iHeart Radio App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by Gilead Sciences.

• 1:20:32Speaker 00

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval. 911, what's your emergency?

• 1:21:07Speaker 00

  Please help us, they're everywhere. We think they're murder warnings.

• 1:21:11Speaker 01

  911 Nashville returns.

• 1:21:14Speaker 03

  What's a homicide detective doing here? Three bodies on the ground.

• 1:21:17Speaker 01

  With emergencies of biblical proportions.

• 1:21:20Speaker 03

  I will send swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues for Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville.

• 1:21:27Speaker 01

  Brian Philippi joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 1:21:39Speaker 07

  Hey y'all, it's Lauren LaRosa and y'all know I always have the latest. So on my new audio series, Love Lately, I'm getting into the conversations we're really having about love, relationships, and our sexual health. Every week, it's me and Dr. Contessa Metcalf, my big sister with a medical degree, breaking down what the culture says versus what the doctor says and helping make sense of it all. Get into it. You know, the thing me and my friends don't really talk about is like how you're having conversations with people about getting tested. I'll be honest, so many women don't feel comfortable talking about it and they don't feel comfortable advocating for themselves. But let's go ahead and just put you in a position to where you can kind of empower yourself and it isn't something, it's not a judgment thing.

• 1:22:23Speaker 07

  It brings that peace of mind that y'all can just do what y'all do and have a good time. Yeah. I say get tested together and that's beautiful. Brings you closer together. Listen to Love Lately with Lauren LaRosa from iHeart's Ruby Studio on the iHeart Radio App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by Gilead Sciences.

• 1:22:47Speaker 01

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:23:18Speaker 00

  911, what's your emergency?

• 1:23:21Speaker 00

  Please help us, they're everywhere. We think they're murder warnings.

• 1:23:25Speaker 01

  911 Nashville returns.

• 1:23:28Speaker 03

  What's a homicide detective doing here? Three bodies on the ground.

• 1:23:31Speaker 01

  With emergencies of biblical proportions.

• 1:23:34Speaker 03

  I will send swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues for Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville.

• 1:23:41Speaker 01

  Brian Philippi joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 1:23:52Speaker 07

  Hey y'all, it's Lauren LaRosa and y'all know I always have the latest. So on my new audio series, Love Lately, I'm getting into the conversations we're really having about love, relationships, and our sexual health. Every week, it's me and Dr. Contessa Metcalf, my big sister with a medical degree, breaking down what the culture says versus what the doctor says and helping make sense of it all. Get into it. You know, the thing me and my friends don't really talk about is like how you're having conversations with people about getting tested. I'll be honest, so many women don't feel comfortable talking about it and they don't feel comfortable advocating for themselves. But let's go ahead and just put you in a position to where you can kind of empower yourself and it isn't something, it's not a judgment thing.

• 1:24:35Speaker 05

  It's not a judgment thing. It brings that peace of mind that y'all can just do what y'all do and have a good time. Yeah. I say get tested together and that's beautiful. Brings you closer together.

• 1:24:46Speaker 07

  Listen to Love Lately with Lauren LaRosa from iHeart's Ruby Studio on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by Gilead Sciences.

• 1:24:59Speaker 01

  Cash Flow Crunch. OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:25:31Speaker 00

  911, what's your emergency?

• 1:25:34Speaker 00

  Please help us. They're everywhere. We think they're murder women.

• 1:25:38Speaker 01

  911 Nashville returns. There's a homicide detective down here. Three bodies on the ground. With emergencies of biblical proportions.

• 1:25:47Speaker 03

  I will send swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues in the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville.

• 1:25:54Speaker 01

  Brian Philippi joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 1:26:02Speaker 00

  If your phone sounds like mine, you know life gets busy. But no matter how busy I am, my health, including my sexual health, is a priority for me. When I learned prep could be an option for women, I looked into it. Prep can be about 99% effective in preventing HIV through sex when taken as prescribed. And it comes as a long-acting injectable, which might need more time between doses. Ask your healthcare provider about a long-acting injectable prep option and visit prepisforwomen.com. Sponsored by Gilead.

• 1:26:30Speaker 01

  Cash Flow Crunch. OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:27:00Jack Murphy?

  Picture the KFC bucket you love. Now picture it on the go, right in your hand, filled with all your KFC favorites. You see it? It's the new KFC Go! Bucket. Choose what you crave for just $3.49. Golden Nuggets, Spicy Wings, or a Crispy Tender, paired with fries or wedges. Now go ahead and picture yourself devouring your Go! Bucket. Man, it's a pretty picture. Try a new way to KFC with Go! Buckets for just $3.49 and be good to go.