Jason Bateman

From child star to frustrated actor to a comedy superstar in TV and film and that's just the beginning of the story for Jason Bateman. He joins Josh to talk about his latest act as a director and dramatic star of hit shows like OZARK and BLACK RABBIT. UPCOMING EVENTS 10/8-10/12 - New York Comic Con -- tickets here 10/14 -- Aziz Ansari in NY -- tickets here Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes, video versions of the podcast, and more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:31Speaker 01

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• 0:59Josh Horowitz?

  Do you ever get any unironic, like, fans of Teen Wolf 2 that are like, "That movie, that movie changed my life"?

• 1:07Speaker 03

  He didn't say it changed his life, but he... Quentin Tarantino, I was out in the city drinking once, years and years and years and years ago.

• 1:19Speaker 03

  And I, I, he came up to me and introduced himself. I was like, knocked out. He was like, "You know what I just saw yesterday? Teen Wolf 2. Great movie." And he started going on, I mean, you know, we ended up hanging out that night and having fun, but that was a big, like, just goes to show you, like, there's, there's something in every film for everybody, you know? I'm sure he would not put it on his top 10 all-time favorites, but it was very nice of him to, to bring out some of the things in it that are worthy of, I, I can't remember what he said about it, but that was surprising.

• 1:55Speaker 04

  Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused, begins now.

• 2:02Josh Horowitz?

  Hey guys. Today on Happy Sad Confused, we've got Jason Bateman. He's an actor, he's a filmmaker. Yes, he's also a podcaster with the new series, Black Rabbit on Netflix. A lot to talk about with first time guest, Jason Bateman. Hey guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy Sad Confused. I am back from a lot of travel. I just got back into New York last night and dove right into a podcast today with Jason Bateman. This is a really fun one and surprisingly, a first time visit from Jason on the pod after all these years. The occasion is a good one. He is starring, executive producing, directing some episodes of the new limited

• 2:45Josh Horowitz?

  series for Netflix. It is called Black Rabbit. It is excellent. It is big time drama. Think more Ozark certainly than Arrested Development and Jason really delivers in this brother role opposite Jude Law. They are brothers who come together around a crime, around a restaurant bar in New York. Jason is maybe cast against type as the ne'er do well and Jude Law more of the hero of the story. Very compelling stuff, well made and continues Jason's huge hot streak in television. This is a fun one. Before we get to more on Jason,

• 3:27Josh Horowitz?

  let me just mention, as I said, I'm just back from the Emmys actually. Really lucky to be there hosting the MTV coverage on the red carpet. It's frankly been a whirlwind few weeks for me. I'm very happy to be back home in New York for a minute now. It was essentially Tyler Wright Film Festival, almost straight to Toronto Film Festival, almost straight to Los Angeles. And now I can exhale a little bit and get back to the usual patterns of my day to day life. That being said, there's a lot of really exciting stuff coming up in New York and beyond this fall. For all the early word on events in New York and beyond, you know what to do. Go to patreon.com/happysadconfused.

• 4:10Josh Horowitz?

  We have a New York event coming up, October.

• 4:15Josh Horowitz?

  Fourteenth, I believe it's October. I'm looking at my calendar. Wait, I can't even say what it is. So this is cool to say. Yes, October fourteenth. I can't officially announce what it is, but it is a 92nd Street Y event. We're screening a film with a very funny, very cool guest that's never been on the pod before. So look out for that. I'm doing a ton at New York Comic Con. If you haven't gotten your tickets to New York Comic Con by now, hurry up. Hope to see you guys there. I'm moderating a bunch of really cool panels, some that have been announced, some that haven't, hosting a reunion for Alien, for The Matrix, for X-Men, and that's really just the tip of the iceberg. I think there are two or three other panels that I'm moderating that I can't quite announce yet. So I hope to see you guys in

• 4:57Josh Horowitz?

  New York. I hope to see you guys at 92nd Street Y. I hope to see you guys at some other events outside of New York. Dot, dot, dot. More to come. As always, patreon.com/happy, sad, confused. Okay, let's talk Jason Bateman. I've wanted to have Jason on the podcast forever. There was, I mentioned this to him early on in the conversation, but certainly my early years of MTV coincided with kind of the return to prominence for Jason. He, of course, was a child star, but then was kind of out in the wilderness for a minute. And then Arrested Development came around and we fell in love with him all over again and fell in love with that show, all obsessed with it. And since

• 5:38Josh Horowitz?

  then, there's been no looking back. Films like Horrible Bosses and Game Night, TV shows like Ozark, and now Black Rabbit. He's a filmmaker, he's an actor, and yes, now he's a podcaster in recent years, the biggest podcast on the planet, it seems, Smartless alongside Sean Hayes and Will Arnett. So we cover all of it in this conversation. It was great to catch up with him. Check out his new limited series, Black Rabbit. It is on Netflix September 18th. And yeah, without any further ado, here's my long overdue catch up with the charming man that is Jason Bateman. Jason Bateman? I didn't see you there.

• 6:19Speaker 03

  You sound surprised.

• 6:20Josh Horowitz?

  You snuck up on me.

• 6:21Speaker 03

  Hi, good morning.

• 6:21Josh Horowitz?

  I feel the vision is pretty shitty, so I didn't, you know. It's good to see you, man.

• 6:25Speaker 03

  You too. Thank you for having me, Josh.

• 6:27Josh Horowitz?

  It's been a long time. We've... There was like a period of time. There were the glory days. I feel like there was a decade where we couldn't get rid of each other. It was like the Arrested to Magorium's Wonder Emporium to Bora Bora.

• 6:39Speaker 03

  Wasn't there... Was there an MTV period in there?

• 6:44Josh Horowitz?

  Well, I'm still... I'm still working for MTV. This isn't MTV, but I still have that job.

• 6:47Speaker 03

  Truly?

• 6:48Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 6:49Speaker 03

  Nice.

• 6:49Josh Horowitz?

  Isn't that insane?

• 6:50Speaker 03

  Good for you.

• 6:50Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, I'm the oldest man working for MTV.

• 6:53Speaker 03

  You might be the one with tenure, right?

• 6:57Josh Horowitz?

  I turned into Kurt Loder at some point. I started working for Kurt, and now I'm like older than Kurt somehow. I don't know.

• 7:03Speaker 03

  Is there anybody there working that has been there longer than you, truly? That's on camera?

• 7:07Josh Horowitz?

  Not in my world, no. Isn't that bizarre?

• 7:10Speaker 03

  Congratulations. Truly.

• 7:12Josh Horowitz?

  We're survivors, you and I.

• 7:14Speaker 03

  Like cockroaches.

• 7:15Josh Horowitz?

  You know where we peaked? I feel like my boondoggle of a trip to Bora Bora. Like, can't we do that anymore? Do you miss those days?

• 7:21Speaker 03

  How great was Bora Bora?

• 7:23Josh Horowitz?

  Couple of trips.

• 7:24Speaker 03

  Still there. It's waiting for us.

• 7:26Josh Horowitz?

  Can Black Rabbit, season two, go to Bora Bora?

• 7:30Speaker 03

  Yeah. The guys get out of town fast.

• 7:34Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, so we do have a lot to catch up on. First, we both went to the fancy Emmys. You did your thing.

• 7:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 7:40Josh Horowitz?

  Did you do that when you were a kid? Was there ever like early days award show shenanigans for Jason Bateman?

• 7:46Speaker 03

  I feel like there probably was.

• 7:49Josh Horowitz?

  There must have been.

• 7:51Speaker 03

  Yeah. You start to forget things as you age, Josh.

• 7:55Josh Horowitz?

  With the volume of work. You've done enough that you forget.

• 7:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, but it's still not lost on me like kind of the cool stuff we get to do. I'm not yet that jaded. I'm, you know, like talking to the fancy folks we get to speak to on like Smartless, for instance. Like, I'm constantly starstruck, you know? And, you know, and then doing that thing in the Emmys the other day, like all the... Cool people that you pass in the hallway on the way to do your thing there. Harrison Ford walked by me, it was like, oh, you know, it's pretty cool.

• 8:28Josh Horowitz?

  How many times have the Smartless guys turned down hosting the Emmys, the Oscars, the Golden Globes? They've come, they've come calling to you guys. You're a no-brainer at this point.

• 8:36Speaker 03

  I cannot confirm or deny, but it's, you know, it's not something that I think we do or that we are. Maybe we're in denial, but you know, it's just three dumbasses talking and we're still very grateful and flattered that people are listening to that. But we, I just don't think we, to be a host, like, you gotta really know what you're doing. That's not, they make it, the good ones make it look easy. But it takes a lot of work and a lot of pretending and we're not doing any of that on Smartless. We're really just sincerely curious and having a conversation. We don't really have a bunch of questions prepared.

• 9:21Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, I know, I can tell.

• 9:23Speaker 03

  It's a bunch of goop.

• 9:25Josh Horowitz?

  No, I have to suppress my resentment. I mean, I love the show so much, but like, you've jumped into my field and so surpassed me so quickly. It's insane.

• 9:33Speaker 03

  I don't know about that, but whatever it is, we're very grateful to keep doing it.

• 9:39Josh Horowitz?

  So, has that, has that led to any work? Have you, has any relationships or friendships or conversations on Smartless, I don't know, manifested any actual?

• 9:50Speaker 03

  That's a good question. I don't think so. I don't think so, but it's, it's helpful for me. If I were to ever work with any of those people, I would be a little less nervous working with them because now we kinda know each other already. Like, there's a lot. I still remember when I was a little kid in school, like, a couple of years after I'd gotten started. So maybe I was, I don't know, 13, 14, something like that. I remember one of my friends at school asking me like, whoops. What's the most famous person you've ever met? And I remember thinking like, yeah, that's a great question. And I had like just done a telethon with like Bob Hope or something. And I remember saying Bob Hope and like that guy was like, oh, all right. It was pretty good. But like, that was it.

• 10:34Speaker 03

  I could only think of like three people that would even qualify to even mention.

• 10:39Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 10:40Speaker 03

  And so it's not lost on me that like I get to talk to like a really famous person once a week and it's a, I've got questions for those folks because I'm a fan. I watch TV and watch movies and listen to music and it's kind of like getting stuck in an elevator with one of these folks. You're immediately on a peer level with them because here we are for an hour. Like you've got to kind of talk to me.

• 11:03Josh Horowitz?

  And one thing on Spartacus before we move into Black Rabbit, I've been very curious about, there's the panic that must set in occasionally when the face jumps on the screen and one of you doesn't quite know anything about the person or much about the person. Like how much frantic Googling do we not see from any of you in the moment?

• 11:24Speaker 03

  I would phrase it differently. It is less frantic and probably a bit more responsible. And that would be Sean and Will at times. I'm less responsible. I'm usually just like, hey, hi, you know, in kind of like what I've just been saying. I'm like, oh my gosh, this person's right in front of me. And just immediately the first questions that would come to my mind.

• 11:48Josh Horowitz?

  Yes.

• 11:49Speaker 03

  I'm immediately thinking about, waiting to get a word in, you know, because the three of us love the sound of our voice so much, you know. Whereas Sean's a little bit more responsible. He'll go in there and like start to look at their Wiki page or whatever and get something intelligent to ask.

• 12:05Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, let's talk a little Black Rabbit. Congratulations on this one, man. I've enjoyed the whole thing, eight episodes. You and the great Jude Law, obviously brothers. You guys have gone up for brother roles before in the past a lot. Does this often happen?

• 12:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, no, but I was really excited to get the call.

• 12:22Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Talk to me a little bit about, I mean, the casting is very cool because like you play a true degenerate in this. Like Vince, I mean, this is like makes Fredo Corleone look like, you know, the most responsible one in the family.

• 12:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:35Josh Horowitz?

  Fun to kind of lean into, I don't know, testing an audience's loyalty because you engender so much like empathy and connection from an audience. That's like one of your super skills.

• 12:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:44Josh Horowitz?

  And Vince kind of puts us to the test, like how much can we really forgive this guy?

• 12:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, I guess he doesn't really, I would, I would argue that like for, as far as, you know, recent references, say like the character I played on Ozark, like that, that, that guy did some legitimately bad things. Uh, you know, the guy I play in Black Rabbit, you know, he, he does accidentally kind of run a guy over in the beginning, but like, it's not really his fault and, but he's in that situation, it's his fault because he's, you know, he's trying to sell his dad's, you know, coins and stuff. He, he, he takes shortcuts, you know, he's, he doesn't really apply himself and he, uh, he likes drugs a little bit and booze a little bit, but those, that's sort of a self, self-loathing

• 13:31Speaker 03

  stuff and so you, I, I'm empathetic towards him, you know, and, and so I wanted to play that part of him, whereas I think you, you could play the character less empathetic, um, less apologetic, less dumb, uh, than I chose to play him. I just felt like that would be more interesting to, to kind of see the softer side of him.

• 13:54Josh Horowitz?

  I know you talked a, a bunch about kind of like your philosophy on acting being like, you know, you're not necessarily the person that, that likes to transform for a role. You're kind of like more of like, often the audience's avatar and there are kind of like subtle adjustments to make, but like, you do transform for this. I mean, like you lost some weight, the look is pretty intense.

• 14:11Speaker 03

  Yes, it's a little similar to this. You coming back in?

• 14:14Josh Horowitz?

  Never went away.

• 14:15Speaker 03

  You coming back in? No, no. Um, it's, it's, it's a little similar to, to this. Yeah, I, I, um, I did a job after Black Rabbit before this, uh, where it was, I was a very conservative, you know, sort of midwestern guy. Um, so I just haven't cut my hair since then, so now it's kind of starting to get back to where it was.

• 14:36Josh Horowitz?

  When you looked in the mirror for full, full character, was it a little Teen Wolf 2 that you saw in there?

• 14:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, crossed with, uh, Jesus Christ Superstar.

• 14:44Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 14:46Speaker 03

  It was a deliberate choice to switch my look up a little bit because I felt like TV's Jason Bateman would not really be, that's a different type of drug addict and alcoholic, you know, on screen, you know, you wouldn't like, is that really Vince now? Vince probably doesn't really go to a hairdresser or, you know, he probably doesn't shave that much and so what does that guy look like? So I just didn't shave and cut my hair for nine months leading up to that thing and then by the time it got up to shooting, I was like, well, maybe I just won't shape it at all and just go with nothing.

• 15:31Speaker 03

  And that was helpful for me, each morning to kind of remind myself what I look like to the outside world. It allowed me to do less sort of faking and acting, which is kind of the goal.

• 15:43Josh Horowitz?

  And now you know what happens in like the post-apocalyptic landscape when like, you know, all the tools of mankind are gone and you just let yourself go, it's Vince, you turn into Vince.

• 15:51Speaker 03

  Right, or you get stuck on an island like Tom Hanks.

• 15:53Josh Horowitz?

  Exactly, this is your castaway basically. My sense is even look at your worst days way back in the day, you probably presented better than this guy. This guy like is like manifesting the inner turmoil on the outside. Am I safe to say like back in the day, even if you were a mess on the inside, you kind of were able to kind of present better?

• 16:11Speaker 03

  Oh sure, yeah, I mean, I'm a professional liar, you know, I mean, that's what we do as actors, you know, so yeah, I knew how to take a shower and comb my hair, for sure, yeah. But I still, I wasn't like, I was never Vince, I was just out there kind of playing, you know.

• 16:27Josh Horowitz?

  Right. Did you have rowdy days in New York? This is a very New York show.

• 16:30Speaker 03

  Oh yeah, back in the day, yeah, I had a lot of fun in the city, my god.

• 16:34Josh Horowitz?

  Were you kicked out of any restaurants like Black Rabbit?

• 16:36Speaker 03

  I don't think I ever got kicked out of anywhere, but no, I moved around quite a bit in the city and it stays up pretty late. I really enjoyed that. Yeah, I've been in a few cabs during morning rush hour on my way home.

• 16:49Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 16:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's kind of fun.

• 16:58Speaker 00

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• 17:29Speaker 05

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• 18:01Josh Horowitz?

  All right, talk to me about like where you're at in the career now. Because this obviously is like an extension in a way of like what Ozark, you know, started to build as a foundational piece for you as both, you know, filmmaker and as an actor. You'd been directing for a bit, but like Ozark really, safe to say, changed different sides of the profession, correct?

• 18:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, for sure. I directed a couple of like festival films before then and really wanted to take on more responsibility and do things even more challenging. And so directing all episodes of a limited series or an ongoing series was, you know, Carrie Fukunaga had just done True Detective. And so that was, that was something that I would have loved to have done and was the plan on Ozark. And just, we couldn't work out the scheduling to get, to get that done. So just ended up doing the first two.

• 18:57Josh Horowitz?

  You mean on Black Rabbit, rather.

• 18:58Speaker 03

  But no, on Ozark.

• 18:59Josh Horowitz?

  Ozark, initially the plan was to do all of them too?

• 19:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 19:02Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, okay.

• 19:03Speaker 03

  And, and so.

• 19:06Speaker 03

  overseeing the whole thing as the executive producer was some of the same type of oversight, responsibility and creative continuity that I was looking for as a director of all episodes. It's obviously not as much of the input that I would have wanted because other directors directed those episodes, but you know, they hand you their episode after they're done with their cut and then it's your responsibility as executive producer to make sure that fits in the continuity of all the other episodes. And so you may adjust some of the editing and of course you're establishing all the music and doing a lot of collecting to make

• 19:48Speaker 03

  it all one thing. And that's a tricky thing to do and something I really enjoyed doing. And when they asked me to do that with this, I just jumped at it, you know?

• 20:00Josh Horowitz?

  Backtracking for a second. So Bad Words was I think the first feature you directed, which I very much enjoyed. You and Catherine Hahn, I remember back in the day, 2013. Then you do the Family Fang, which like, no one saw. Like, what happened? Like, I mean, is that a learning? Like, because you have success with Bad Words. It has an audience, good reviews. And then The Sophomore Effort, like, did you feel like, oh shit, like I'm now in director jail? Like, it's...

• 20:24Speaker 03

  I don't know. I think jail is reserved for those that spend a whole lot of money and then it doesn't work and it costs the studio a bunch. You know, Family Fang was a very small movie, as was Bad Words. And, you know, the expectation was not huge for either of those films. I would have loved for more people to see either one of them, but it's hard, you know, independent films, getting an audience, even just getting distribution. I was happy to just get distribution on both of those. You know, a lot of films that go to festivals, I think it's, you know, probably higher than 80%. You don't even get bought.

• 21:05Josh Horowitz?

  Oh no, five a nickel for every... Not bad, like Sundance movie I've seen that's literally no one ever sees again. Here's again, it's crazy.

• 21:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's really tragic. So it was a bit of a win just to get those films in movie theaters. What films get traction and end up lasting in movie theaters is a little bit of a mystery cocktail. We didn't really get it with either one of those.

• 21:32Speaker 03

  But, you know, super proud of those movies and I'm really excited for people to maybe one day revisit them, you know, maybe after I'm dead and they see it, you know, and like sort of like the canon of things that I do, "Oh, what the hell was that?" I've never seen them, they watch them, "Oh, God, I wish he was still alive so I could tell him I liked it."

• 21:52Josh Horowitz?

  We'll get there before that happens. What, I mean, aspirationally, I mean, you're obviously having so much success and creative freedom in television. Like, you've been attached to a bunch of films the last few years, and I would imagine some of it is also based again on where the industry is at and where the opportunities are. Like, does part of you still want to make direct films, or are you happy with the way you're doing this in TV?

• 22:15Speaker 03

  I, yes, absolutely want to direct films, things that are, you know, a big challenge, you know, things that carry that big budget and all the responsibility of having to be a good soldier to the people writing those big checks. So, big commercial films that are, you know, artistically credible as well. I just refuse to think you can't do both. You know, there's some incredible directors that happen to do both, Christopher Nolan or Denis Villeneuve, you know, like, it's, it can be done. So, I aspire to do things like that. Doing the stuff and streaming is, you know, it all looks and feels the same when you're

• 23:00Speaker 03

  on the set.

• 23:01Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 23:02Speaker 03

  Where they end up being exhibited is less important to me. I'm just, you know, you want people to see what you do, and nowadays, people are really enjoying seeing stuff at home and not crying next to a stranger, you know?

• 23:22Josh Horowitz?

  Just like to cry by ourselves on our couches, yeah.

• 23:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, I get the convenience of it, and everyone's kind of got a big TV now, and, you know, some films you kind of, or shows, rather, you figure, "Oh, I've probably got to watch this at night because, you know, it's lit dimly like I like to do." So, you kind of, there's, I don't know, it's, both mediums are completely valid in my opinion.

• 23:48Josh Horowitz?

  I would imagine, though, like, based on what you've been able to accomplish in recent years in TV, like... They probably like talk to you about some major, major assignments like, I mean, not to say this is the aspiration nowadays, but like, I would imagine like you could direct a Marvel or DC movie, you absolutely could, like, you're directing 600-page novels at the highest level.

• 24:07Speaker 03

  Right, the budgets of the whole show that I'm overseeing are well over a hundred million dollars, yes, so it's, the responsibility is there for sure, and I'm so appreciative of that trust and support, and sure, doing it for a movie studio and to be in movie theaters, great, love to, and yes, in fact, I am talking to all folks like that, and as you know, things are, each thing is further down the field than another thing, and you know, we'll see what, you know, gets into the end zone, you know, sometimes it's a streaming thing that gets across the finish line first, you know, and so, you know, yeah, the next, the next few years, I anticipate being really fun.

• 24:51Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, let's tease that out for a second, were you a comic book guy growing up at all, you just played Batman, kind of.

• 24:55Speaker 03

  Oh, right, yeah, no, I was never a comic book guy, and I don't say that proudly, I recognize I'm kind of behind the eight ball there, but I do really enjoy what's being done with that IP, so, yeah, all that stuff is really interesting to me.

• 25:14Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, so, we're not gonna go through the entire filmography down memory lane, but we're gonna hit some stuff, if I'm building the 80s montage of Jason Bateman, you know, Silver Spoons, Tiger Beat, Battle of the Network Stars.

• 25:28Speaker 03

  I never did that, I would have loved to, I was a little too young for that, but that should be brought back.

• 25:33Josh Horowitz?

  Totally should, I mean, what is peak 80s Bateman, like, what are the moments on the, high on the mountaintop, like, were you on the cover of Tiger Beat, did you get that, did you get the teen heart drop status, did you feel it?

• 25:45Speaker 03

  I don't know, if I ever was, it was probably lower right corner, underneath, you know, the little tag with your, with your address on there, that you couldn't even see me.

• 25:56Speaker 03

  I don't know, the 80s were definitely fun for me and an interesting way to be young. It was, I enjoyed it. It was, it was super fun and, you know, you think you're so dumb and naive at that age, you think it's gonna last forever and of course, you know, you forget, I've gotta make a transition into adult acting at some point, so I wish someone had prepared me for that, cause that was, that was a-

• 26:24Josh Horowitz?

  A rude awakening?

• 26:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was a little bit of a sort of, huh.

• 26:30Josh Horowitz?

  Wait, no one, no one mentioned this part.

• 26:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, I, no one saved my place in line? So yeah, were it not for Arrested Development, I probably wouldn't be here today.

• 26:41Josh Horowitz?

  When were you at your most insufferable? At what age, if I had met you, do you think?

• 26:46Speaker 03

  I thought I was pretty cool for a long time there in the 80s, and probably 90s too.

• 26:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, and then you get, like anybody growing up, whether you're a teen actor or not, you know, you get, you get humbled as you transition from being a fearless kid into being an adult, where you've got to, you know, most kids, it happens in college, when you're actually studying about an industry or an occupation and you realize, oh, I'm not just studying this because it's interesting to me, this is a path to providing and like paying a mortgage and feeding yourself and maybe a family one day, so if things get real pretty quick, and that was, that was an interesting period for me, as it is for, for all, and as I said,

• 27:39Speaker 03

  fortunately, you know, Arrested Development was basically like getting a really good job coming out of college, you know, and there's, there is a career path here. If I, if I'm responsible, if I, if I stay right here on this escalator, hopefully, maybe they won't kick me off and I can continue to ascend into something that can bring me longevity and job security and, I mean, it's never a guarantee in this business, even what I'm doing right now, you know, everyone's just a job away from, you know, quiet or, or the opposite, so you gotta kinda keep your knees bent.

• 28:13Josh Horowitz?

  So, in the years, a couple of years before, like Arrested even, did you feel like you were always one job away? Like, were there jobs that you came close to at the time that felt like- This is, I'm about to turn the corner on the top three, they're saying, they're saying the right things, like, does anything stand out as like the one that almost got, that got away that would have changed things?

• 28:31Speaker 03

  I mean, I've said it before, so I apologize if anyone's ever heard this, but like, I, I read to be the Verizon Can You Hear Me Now guy, and, and really wanted it, because I was, I was, things were not great for me financially or otherwise, and a friend of mine was directing that commercial campaign, and, and they were, they were looking for kind of a pseudo-celebrity to, to do it, and I thought I'd really nailed the audition, and he, I actually saw him at a party later that day, at that, that night, and he said, we're, we're gonna, we're gonna go with, with, with just an actor, and I was like, ah, I was really disappointed.

• 29:11Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 29:12Speaker 03

  Three weeks later, I auditioned for Arrested Development, so it, you know, you think this job you're reading for is the one?

• 29:21Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 29:22Speaker 03

  You kind of have to to, to really kind of invest.

• 29:24Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 29:25Speaker 03

  Creatively, emotionally into it, to do a good job, but it never is, it's, tomorrow's always a different day, different opportunity, and that's true in any, in anybody's life, you know, you always think today is the most important day, and you just gotta kind of keep paddling.

• 29:41Josh Horowitz?

  In the nicely packaged narrative of your life and career, it's easy to like connect Arrested to sobriety, which happened a couple of years prior, do you connect it at all? Like, that you weren't in a better place personally, just as a human being, with getting arrested, or is it a little bit of happenstance, or both?

• 29:58Speaker 03

  It was kind of around the same sort of era, you know, stopping drinking happened after Arrested was, was, was going, I think probably into the second year or something like that, but definitely, had I not had this incredible job and, and, you know, life raft sent my way, I, it would have been maybe a little bit harder to... You know, I mean, I had something to wake up for in the morning, you know, like, I get it. I've still got friends that, you know, enjoy partying a great deal and they don't have to get up in the morning for something. And so I get it, you know, stay up later and, you know.

• 30:40Speaker 03

  But I had a real good reason to get up early and have a clear head and, you know, I was into a great relationship with my now-wife. And things were, I had just kind of done what I planned to do as a kid, as a teenager in my twenties. And it really was time to turn the page and do the things I really wanted to do as an adult. And fortunately, those things were coming. I wanted to have a career. I wanted to be a husband. I wanted to be a father. And those things happened right there in those years. And it would've just been foolish to hold on to something else that was part of the old. It was like, that was

• 31:23Speaker 03

  part of my senior year curriculum and it was time to be a freshman in the next phase of my life. And so, you've done that class, you know.

• 31:33Josh Horowitz?

  Does Arrested feel like a daily part of your life to this day? Do you get the same frequency of people quoting you lines, of referencing the Blue Phantom, the Banana Stand?

• 31:44Speaker 03

  No, not so much. I mean, as recently as maybe five, six years ago, there was still a little bit of that, but not so much anymore. I mean, really, just Will Arnett is really the...

• 31:57Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, he was in that too?

• 31:58Speaker 03

  The daily connection for me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, Will and I are, you know, best of friends and that's, that's still, that's the daily connection to that that still exists in my life.

• 32:12Josh Horowitz?

  Do any specific references, quotes that, when people bring up, bring a smile to your face? Like, are there like, things that people can bring up that key into like a particularly happy memory from Arrested?

• 32:24Speaker 03

  I mean, anything and everything associated with it gives me a smile. It was, it was a really, I mean, for all the reasons we've been talking about, it was a great memory, but then just, just the, the work that we were doing. That, you know, those scripts were hilarious and those actors, every one of them, were incredible at what they were doing and, you know, it's like sitting there, when someone tells you a joke and you laugh your ass off, you kind of want that moment to... And that, that moment was there at least once an hour, every hour, every day. And so it was, it was just a, an absolute gift.

• 33:06Josh Horowitz?

  What's the funniest thing you ever saw Will do to your face on that show?

• 33:13Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 33:14Josh Horowitz?

  Was there a run, was there like a day in particular that jumps out of like, this guy is next level in terms of what he can do?

• 33:22Speaker 03

  I feel like, I don't know, when I, I had no, I mean, I did audition with him, so I got a sense of how he was gonna play the character. But it seemed like, in the first episode, we have this scene where I, he rides up on his Segway and, and I, I say something like, you know, "How's it going? How's it been going?" Because I guess I haven't seen him, my brother, for a while. And he just looks down at the Segway, he's like, "Pretty good." You know, like, so, you know, he's, his take on everything was just super confident, super arrogant, but an absolute clown.

• 34:00Josh Horowitz?

  Yes.

• 34:00Speaker 03

  And...

• 34:01Josh Horowitz?

  It's that classic Will Ferrell mode, like, it's the, it's the, it's the overconfident...

• 34:05Speaker 03

  And he's just a huge blind spot.

• 34:07Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 34:07Speaker 03

  You know, which takes a great deal of acting talent to pull off.

• 34:11Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 34:11Speaker 03

  Absolutely no winking. And Will's just, just an incredible actor, both Wills.

• 34:17Josh Horowitz?

  Luckily, like, this, this run of like, great work both on TV and film coincided with this great era of like, comedy and film, which sadly we're not in right now. It's just insane. I hope it comes back. Can we agree game night now? Is a masterpiece. Game Night's amazing.

• 34:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, I have not seen it for a while. I remember, I remember it being pretty great. Those guys did a really, really good job directing that movie and writing it.

• 34:42Josh Horowitz?

  I feel badly sometimes because I've done a lot with Jesse Plemons in recent years. And it's like, there's so much to talk to him about his career. All I want to talk to him about is Gary.

• 34:49Speaker 03

  Oh, really?

• 34:50Josh Horowitz?

  Like, it's just...

• 34:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, I hear his new film is incredible.

• 34:52Josh Horowitz?

  It is. He's unbelievable in it.

• 34:53Speaker 03

  That Yorgos Lanthimos, what a filmmaker. Yeah, that, that movie, people absolutely love it, and I don't blame them. And it was, it was incredible, incredibly fun thing to do. I was, I was really glad that we got a lot of the night shooting out of the way because I was going to direct that for a long time. I developed that script. And we needed a rewrite on it. And I, and I asked Jonathan, Jonathan to do the rewrite. And they, they were like, eh, we're really just writing things we direct now. And I was like, alright, I'll jump off as director if you'll redo the rewrite. They were like, great. Alright, so...

• 35:31Josh Horowitz?

  It's a win-win.

• 35:31Speaker 03

  While, while I was developing it, I hate shooting at night. So even though it's called Game Night, and the whole thing takes place at night...

• 35:38Josh Horowitz?

  Day for night, guys? What do you think?

• 35:39Speaker 03

  I had changed all these scenes to be interiors instead of exterior so that we could shoot during the day and just tent the building.

• 35:46Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 35:46Speaker 03

  So we ended up only shooting like, I don't know, a week of actual exterior nights. You know, where you start at 6:00 at night and wrap at 6:00 in the morning. It's death.

• 35:55Josh Horowitz?

  It must drive people insane. I can't imagine.

• 35:57Speaker 03

  But I was really proud of that part, that I'd gotten that all the way down.

• 36:01Josh Horowitz?

  Well done.

• 36:40Speaker 05

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• 37:12Josh Horowitz?

  So do you take, at this point, greater satisfaction in dramatic work versus comedy work? You were so known for so long as comedy guy. It's just like we take you for granted that you can do that. I don't know, is there a sense of satisfaction when Ozark hits and now Black Rabbit? That you're still showing new colors to audiences or what?

• 37:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, I would be lying if I said that I wasn't somewhat interested in trying to prove to myself that I can do the other and maybe try to show the audience that I can be believable with the other as well. And that did feel good for it to be embraced on Ozark. That was... I was very flattered that people bought it. And once again with Black Rabbit, it's another thing that I wasn't trying to prove anything, but I really... It was really fed by directing.

• 38:14Speaker 03

  The things that I love as a director, the things I like to do as a director are... have a lot to do with all the other departments except acting. Camera, lighting, production design, editing, composing, like all the other departments you don't get to play with as an actor. And so when you're doing a drama, particularly something scary or violent or criminal...

• 38:42Speaker 03

  There is a bit more of a demand on those other departments than maybe you'd find in a comedy film.

• 38:48Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 38:49Speaker 03

  And so...

• 38:50Josh Horowitz?

  We'll find it in the edits. We'll kind of do that. There's that, a little bit of that sense in comedy sometimes.

• 38:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, and you've got to turn on all the lights and you've got to make sure that, you know, you're here instead of over here to make people laugh. And I don't really agree with all of that, but that's the way people are used to seeing it. And so, I would like to do more comedic work now, because I feel like I've kind of scratched that itch for the meantime with drama. As a director, I'd like to direct a comedy film. I mean, I enjoyed doing that with Bad Words, you know, like that was, all the colors were desaturated in that. And it was long lens and it was, you know, we played with grain and lighting and music. Like, it didn't really look like a comedy and we still made people laugh.

• 39:36Speaker 03

  So it definitely can be done. I'm certainly not the first person to do it. But I look forward to directing a comedy and have it, you know, look a little bit better than it needs to. And John and Jonathan did that with Game Night. You know, we talked a lot about look and feel and, you know, they're big fans of David Fincher. We talked about him a lot on that and, you know, they had a couple of moves in there that were Fincher-esque. You know, or, you know, some of the composition that they were talking about there. And so, it can be done and I look forward to doing it.

• 40:12Josh Horowitz?

  I think of someone like, honestly, like on the same shelf as you, someone like Stiller. Stiller who like approaches comedy, like Tropic Thunder is a very well-made film. All of his films are impeccably made and he doesn't lose.

• 40:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's just taste. It doesn't cost any more money. It's just, it's just taste. And you can, I think the audience would love to laugh with a film or a show and have it look a little better than what is typical.

• 40:44Josh Horowitz?

  Do you have to audition anymore? Are your audition days over? Do you remember the last time you had to audition, Jason?

• 40:48Speaker 03

  I don't, to be honest.

• 40:52Josh Horowitz?

  It's probably been a minute, I would imagine.

• 40:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, but it's somewhat helpful. I mean, I'm not asking...

• 40:58Josh Horowitz?

  To prove to yourself that you're capable of it, or what?

• 41:01Speaker 03

  No, it's for the director to see what your version of this character is gonna be before it's too late. You know? Because if it's an offer, no one gets to see what you're gonna do until it's too late to recast you. And it's probably too late to even have the creative negotiation with that actor to just explain tone. Like, I appreciate your version of the character, what you're doing there, but I need to let you know that these other people that I've hired, you haven't seen them do... We may have already been shooting for a couple of weeks before you come on. I need to let you know what this is, you know?

• 41:44Josh Horowitz?

  Well, that's your whole job as a director, is to make it all fit together.

• 41:46Speaker 03

  Exactly. And so, auditioning, or just having a meeting with a director and talking about tone and talking about comps for that character, or what type of film is this? Is this a Mel Brooks comedy? Is it a Woody Allen comedy? Is it like, where does it sit? Or, and, you know, same type of references for drama, too. It's helpful to know what movie we're all in.

• 42:10Josh Horowitz?

  Do you remember seeing, like, that spark, like, Julia Garner, for instance? When she auditioned? Like, was it immediate, like, oh, she's bringing a take? That's really interesting here, that I can fit into this world?

• 42:22Speaker 03

  Yes, yeah, yeah. There's... My personal preference of performances is to not see a performance, you know? Some people really like to see acting. They think the audience might wanna show up to watch a performance.

• 42:39Josh Horowitz?

  Yep.

• 42:40Speaker 03

  And that's valid. As an audience member myself, I like to see everything just kinda disappear. And so, I'm looking for people that are not helping the audience. You know, people who are the characters internally, as opposed to externally.

• 42:58Speaker 03

  Excuse me, Julia was very good at... Being that character Ruth internally and she was just basically thinking Ruth instead of performing Ruth.

• 43:09Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 43:09Speaker 03

  And so consequently, as an audience member, you kind of lean in and try to read her mind because she's not helping you. She's not thrown to the back row. It's just for the front row. And if you can't hear it or see it from back there, you might want to lean in and pay better attention. And that's, I like that.

• 43:28Josh Horowitz?

  You've mentioned a couple filmmakers that you admire. Who's the one that like if the phone call, the message, the text came in, you would drop everything to show up on set?

• 43:36Speaker 03

  That's a long list. You know, I've got a lot of company with this list, you know, people like Paul Thomas Anderson and Denis Villeneuve and Christopher Nolan and, you know.

• 43:51Josh Horowitz?

  Come close to any of those? Have you had conversations with any? Do we need to manifest something for you? You're doing pretty well, but I want to help manifest anything you want.

• 44:00Speaker 03

  I mean, I've never met Christopher Nolan, but I've talked to the other two. And, you know, they're incredibly nice guys and incredible at what they do. And I mean, I literally would, I would pull cable on their sets just to watch them do what they do. Because, you know, directing is such an amorphous thing. It's not, it's not, it's not something, it's the only person on the set that doesn't have a job. You know, so to watch how they do it is, it's a very unique thing. And directors don't get to see other directors direct.

• 44:42Josh Horowitz?

  Well, that's why so many, as you well know, actors turn, filmmakers turn out to be so good because they have way more experience. Like you've heard all these stories of great filmmakers who when they directed their first film, had way less experience than the actors that they were directing.

• 44:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, and you can cherry pick from all those great directors if you ever get the chance. So I'm surprised more actors don't direct or more cameramen don't direct or more first assistant directors don't direct. Because, you know, we all work with multiple directors every year.

• 45:10Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 45:11Speaker 03

  Directors never get to see another director direct. So they don't know if they're doing something not great or if they're doing something really good and should lean into that or, you know, it's weird.

• 45:22Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, a couple of random things for you. Is there an actor who intimidated you most on set? Who did you have to kind of get over your? Hero worship or just their manner?

• 45:31Speaker 03

  I did a movie of the week in the early 90s on CBS with Katharine Hepburn. And she, I was doing this really emotional scene with her and I guess I was, I was pressing a bit and she stopped in the middle of it and she said, "Stop acting." And, you know, I was like, "As a profession?"

• 45:51Josh Horowitz?

  She was very blanket.

• 45:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, and she was like, "No, no, in the scene, just say it, just say it, the words." I was like, "Ah, yeah, of course." So that was, that was helpful. I don't know if that was so much intimidating as it was, you know, educational. You know, she's, she knows what she's talking about.

• 46:10Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, because I'm an asshole. I do bring up Teen Wolf 2 over the years with you always.

• 46:14Speaker 03

  It's quite alright. Thank God it's not the high watermark.

• 46:18Josh Horowitz?

  I'm able to do that because there has been so much great work. Do you ever get any unironic, like, fans of Teen Wolf 2 that are like, "That movie, that movie changed my life."

• 46:28Speaker 03

  He didn't say it changed his life, but he, Quentin Tarantino, I was out in the city drinking once, years and years and years and years ago.

• 46:40Speaker 03

  And I, I, he came up to me and introduced himself. I was like, knocked out. He was like, "You know what I just saw yesterday? Teen Wolf 2, great movie." And he started going on, I mean, you know, we ended up hanging out that night and having fun, but that was a big, like, just goes to show you, like, there's, there's something in every film for everybody, you know. I'm sure he would not put it on his top 10 all-time favorites, but it was very nice of him to, to bring out some of the things in it that are worthy of, I, I can't remember what he said about it, but that was surprising.

• 47:16Josh Horowitz?

  Amazing. Is there a gig that stands out that you were sure you were gonna be fired on? That like, "Oh my God, this is, this is like day two, I'm, this is not gonna work."

• 47:28Speaker 03

  That's a great question, and I bet there's a good answer to that, but I probably just poured cement over the memory.

• 47:35Josh Horowitz?

  Years of therapy have blocked it out.

• 47:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, but there's plenty, there's plenty of times that you're just not sure if what you're doing is working, you know, because we're, you know, it's just fake life. It's a real cringey, embarrassing thing to try to pull off, to pretend that camera's not there, and like, we're just having a conversation, there's no one else in the room. It's like, it's a weird thing.

• 48:00Josh Horowitz?

  It's a thin line between genius and silliness.

• 48:04Speaker 03

  So you kind of have to get past that and just kind of pull your pants down and go for it.

• 48:10Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, metaphorically.

• 48:11Speaker 03

  Metaphorically speaking.

• 48:12Josh Horowitz?

  Since you've had such a storied career, I've done this with folks that have long filmographies, we're going to pit some of your projects against each other, and we're going to anoint the greatest project of your career. You ready?

• 48:21Speaker 03

  We're going to whittle it down.

• 48:22Josh Horowitz?

  We're going to whittle it down, it's like Round Robin style. Okay. You're a sports fan. Okay, we're putting Arrested Development versus Juno first. What do you pick?

• 48:30Speaker 03

  Arrested Development.

• 48:31Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. Horrible Bosses versus Game Night.

• 48:33Speaker 03

  Horrible Bosses.

• 48:34Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. Dodgeball versus Identity Thief?

• 48:37Speaker 03

  Identity Thief.

• 48:38Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. Ozark versus Hancock?

• 48:41Speaker 03

  Ozark.

• 48:42Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, now, we've got Arrested versus Horrible Bosses.

• 48:47Speaker 03

  Arrested.

• 48:50Josh Horowitz?

  Identity Thief versus Ozark?

• 48:52Speaker 03

  Ozark.

• 48:53Josh Horowitz?

  All the marbles, we knew this was going to head this way. Ozark versus Arrested, the one true champion in the career of Jason Bateman, according to Jason Bateman, is?

• 49:02Speaker 03

  I guess I'd have to say Arrested, because without Arrested, there would be no Ozark, you know, so.

• 49:07Josh Horowitz?

  The logic strikes.

• 49:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm super proud of what I did with Ozark, just because I asked for it. I asked for the responsibility.

• 49:16Josh Horowitz?

  And you rose to the challenge.

• 49:17Speaker 03

  For the rope, yeah, and so that could have been a wipeout.

• 49:20Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, looking ahead, you're working with, you worked with one of my favorite people, David Harbour.

• 49:25Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 49:26Josh Horowitz?

  I believe, yeah.

• 49:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. He's such a good dude. Yeah, that's DTF St. Louis, it's a... Limited series for HBO that'll be out, and I think probably January or February. That's a really special thing that Steve Conrad wrote and directed. But I've been a huge fan of his forever and a very unique writer and director. And so I was very happy to be a soldier for him on that. I'm just an actor and producer on that.

• 49:52Josh Horowitz?

  I always think, Harper asked me once, this is like years ago. He's like, what's all this podcast stuff? Is there money in podcasting, Josh? And I was like, I don't think so, David. And then like the next day, you guys like sold Smart List for like a gajillion dollars.

• 50:06Speaker 03

  Licensed.

• 50:07Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, sorry.

• 50:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's shocking, but grateful.

• 50:13Josh Horowitz?

  I've heard you talk about like Next Act, maybe coming here to do some theater at some point.

• 50:19Speaker 03

  That would be great, yeah. I mean, my 13-year-old is still got to get through school and once she is off into college, then Amanda and I can kind of go wherever we want. And the East has always been a place I'd love to come back to. I was born here, but left when I was super young. I'd love to do theater. Some of my friends have done really incredible work on stage and I really, I'd love to do that and maybe do more of kind of what you're doing, you know? Like, you know, we were talking before we started about, you know, how great that show Charlie Rose was, you know, and how he brought, you know, really interesting people together to talk about what they do.

• 51:03Speaker 03

  And I guess we're doing a little bit on that on Smart List, but you know, it's a lot of actors talking about actor stuff. But you know, that show talked about different people in different industries a bit more and that would be a really interesting thing to, just for my own personal edification.

• 51:19Josh Horowitz?

  Well, I know like the whole other part of your life you always talk about is like you spend all your time basically watching MSNBC, like you're a political junkie. So like, I would imagine there's a whole part of your brain that's unexplored professionally.

• 51:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, I never went to college and so I would like to sort of selfishly educate myself, sitting across a wood table, surrounded by doofetine.

• 51:37Josh Horowitz?

  I can help make that dream come true. Okay, we're going to end with a happy, second-fuse, profoundly random questions, Jason. You ready? Dogs or cats?

• 51:45Speaker 03

  Dogs.

• 51:46Josh Horowitz?

  What do you collect, if anything?

• 51:49Speaker 03

  I collect baseballs.

• 51:54Josh Horowitz?

  Like, game used?

• 51:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, they're not significant ones in boxes.

• 52:01Speaker 03

  But yeah, I've got a bunch of them sitting around the house.

• 52:02Josh Horowitz?

  How many have you caught or stolen from children?

• 52:05Speaker 03

  I've actually caught two foul balls in my life, which is pretty good. I'd trade one of them in for a hole-in-one in golf, which I still haven't gotten, but equally rare.

• 52:15Josh Horowitz?

  Amazing. Favorite video game of all time?

• 52:18Speaker 03

  It would be a stand-up one, because I'm an old guy.

• 52:22Speaker 03

  Probably Pac-Man. I put in a lot of time there and got pretty far. I think like 14th key, I think, was...

• 52:32Speaker 03

  You need to talk to your dad.

• 52:34Josh Horowitz?

  I'm the same age, basically, yeah. This is the Dakota Johnson memorial question. She asked me this. Would you rather have a mouthful of bees or one bee in your butt?

• 52:45Speaker 03

  I was just gonna say something that would have been your clip. But I'm not gonna give it to you.

• 52:52Speaker 03

  But you say Dakota Johnson, I gotta say, Splitsville is a fucking great movie.

• 52:56Josh Horowitz?

  I agree.

• 52:57Speaker 03

  That's a great movie.

• 52:58Josh Horowitz?

  People sleeping on that one, check it out.

• 52:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 53:03Speaker 03

  I guess it... I don't want bees in the mouth.

• 53:08Speaker 03

  That would hurt a lot and could potentially kill you. So I'd take the other.

• 53:12Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. What's the wallpaper on your phone?

• 53:16Speaker 03

  My two girls.

• 53:18Josh Horowitz?

  Last actor you were mistaken for?

• 53:22Speaker 03

  Probably Jerry O'Connell, you know.

• 53:28Josh Horowitz?

  Worst noted director has ever given you?

• 53:33Speaker 03

  Less.

• 53:36Josh Horowitz?

  How'd you take that?

• 53:38Speaker 03

  To heart.

• 53:41Speaker 03

  I dried my eye and did another take. Yeah, that's it.

• 53:45Josh Horowitz?

  It's boss.

• 53:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, as, as, as, once I became a director, I, I figured out how to give that note in a much kinder way.

• 53:53Josh Horowitz?

  How do you do it? Give it to me. I've just gone too big in a take. What would you say to me?

• 53:56Speaker 03

  I can't reveal my secret, but rest assured, the, the proper note lives in, in, in instilling confidence in the actor.

• 54:04Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 54:05Speaker 03

  You know, you've got to figure out how to get them to.

• 54:07Josh Horowitz?

  Start with something positive and then?

• 54:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, you know, it's, you, you lose an actor's confidence, you're going to have an even worse take next.

• 54:15Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 54:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 54:16Josh Horowitz?

  And then finally, in the spirit of happy, sad, confused, an actor who always makes you happy, you see them on screen, you're instantly in a better mood.

• 54:22Speaker 03

  Will Ferrell.

• 54:24Josh Horowitz?

  Movie that makes you sad.

• 54:30Speaker 03

  Well, in light of today's tough news, Ordinary People.

• 54:34Josh Horowitz?

  Redford.

• 54:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 54:35Josh Horowitz?

  Best.

• 54:36Speaker 03

  What a great movie.

• 54:36Josh Horowitz?

  To ever do it. And a food that makes you confused, Jason, you don't get it.

• 54:41Speaker 03

  Noki.

• 54:43Josh Horowitz?

  You don't like the potato gnocchi?

• 54:45Speaker 03

  What is it? Is it pasta? Is it, is it a vegetable? Is it, how are we spelling that? How are we going to pronounce that without making me cringe?

• 54:53Josh Horowitz?

  So it's about the word and what it is?

• 54:55Speaker 03

  The whole thing's a wipeout, yeah. Forget it. It's, let's have pasta or let's have vegetables.

• 54:59Josh Horowitz?

  You just haven't met the right gnocchi in your life yet.

• 55:01Speaker 03

  Stop saying the word.

• 55:02Josh Horowitz?

  Gnocchi. Congratulations on Black Rabbit. First time guest on the podcast. It only took 11 years to get you on. Let's not make it another 11.

• 55:10Speaker 03

  Let's, yeah, let's, I, we've got to get a video component on our podcast.

• 55:14Josh Horowitz?

  That's where the real money is. You guys can make a gajillion dollars.

• 55:17Speaker 03

  Well.

• 55:19Josh Horowitz?

  You're doing video anyway on Zoom, just turn it on.

• 55:21Speaker 03

  I know, right? Maybe.

• 55:23Josh Horowitz?

  You thinking about it?

• 55:23Speaker 03

  Do people want to watch a quad split?

• 55:28Josh Horowitz?

  I, I want to watch your quad split. Sounds wrong.

• 55:31Speaker 03

  Keep it clean, Josh.

• 55:31Josh Horowitz?

  Sorry. It's good to see you, buddy. Congratulations on Black Rabbit.

• 55:34Speaker 03

  You too. Thank you. And you as well.

• 55:36Josh Horowitz?

  Thanks for the time today.

• 55:58Speaker 06

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