Bill Gates, Truth About Vaccines, & Big Pharma’s Plot to Destroy Doctors Who Question ”The Science”

Post-Nazi medicine is based on informed consent, so naturally Dr. Kirk Moore allowed his patients to decide whether or not they wanted the Covid shot. For this, federal prosecutors tried to put him in prison for life. (00:00) Reacting to Donald Trump’s Message to the Pharmaceutical Companies (10:40) How Dr. Kirk Moore Spotted the Covid Scam So Quickly (21:17) The Censorship Campaign to Silence Good Doctors (31:31) Bill Gates, Anthony Fauci, and the Suspicious Push for Vaccines (42:24) Why Dr. Kirk Moore Told His Patients Not to Take the Covid Vaccine (50:49) Why Dr. Kirk Moore Decided to Administer Fake Vaccines (1:09:32) The Ridiculous Indictments (1:22:32) The Moment Dr. Kirk Moore Found Out He Might Go to Jail for Life Paid partnerships with: Eight Sleep: Get $350 off the new Pod 5 Ultra at https://EightSleep.com/Tucker PureTalk: Go to https://PureTalk.com/Tucker to and save 50% off your first month. Cozy Earth: Go to https://CozyEarth.com/Tucker & use code TUCKER for up to 40% off joggers, pants, shirts - everything. TCN: Watch the full series as soon as it premieres: tuckercarlson.com/the911files Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

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• 0:27Tucker Carlson?

  So, thank you for doing this. I think you're a hero. I just want to say that. This is not going to be an objective interview.

• 0:35Tucker Carlson?

  I want to thank you for everything you've done and I want to hear a story, but I want to begin with a statement from the president just out now. This is Donald J. Trump on Truth Social, and I'm quoting. "It is very important that the drug companies justify the success of their various COVID drugs. Many people think they're a miracle that saved millions of lives. Others disagree. With the CDC now being ripped apart over this question, I want the answer and I want it now," in all caps. "I've been shown information from Pfizer and others that is extraordinary, but they never seem to show those results to the public. Why not? They go off the next hunt and let everyone rip themselves apart, including Bobby Kennedy Jr. and the CDC, trying to figure out the success or failure of the drug companies' COVID work.

• 1:17Tucker Carlson?

  They show me great numbers and results, but they don't seem to be showing them to many others, and I want them to show them now to CDC and the public and clear up this mess one way or the other. I hope that Operation Warp Speed was brilliant, as many say it was. If not, we all want to know about it and why. Thank you for your attention to this very important matter, President DJT." Wow.

• 2:00Tucker Carlson?

  What does that mean?

• 2:01Speaker 02

  That is a total reversal from what...

• 2:05Speaker 02

  I can't say it's a total reversal. I'm really, uh, I'm encouraged by those words, significantly encouraged. Um, it's been a struggle with this whole Operation Warp Speed with what we know.

• 2:20Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 2:21Speaker 02

  We.

• 2:22Tucker Carlson?

  Being physicians practicing?

• 2:23Speaker 02

  Being physicians practicing, but not all physicians practicing. We talked about this earlier, you know, where a very small percentage of us actually quote unquote, "No." Okay?

• 2:31Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 2:33Speaker 02

  And, but to hear that coming from him where he may actually be questioning the Operation Warp Speed numbers that were put behind him and that were given to him before is a really, really interesting twist.

• 2:46Tucker Carlson?

  It's pretty unbelievable that he has to send something like this out considering that companies like Pfizer and Moderna and their executives are all billionaires because of federal tax dollars. So like this, these are not really, I mean, they're publicly traded companies, but they're not in some kind of private sector business. They are government contractors. We're forced to take their products. We have no recourse if those products hurt us because they have full immunity. And so they're getting rich from our tax dollars, but we don't get to see the numbers? Like maybe, maybe someone should go to jail like right away.

• 3:18Speaker 02

  What numbers is he seeing that he says have been really impressive numbers that we're not seeing?

• 3:23Tucker Carlson?

  Well, this Bula, the veterinarian Bula guy?

• 3:25Speaker 02

  Right.

• 3:26Tucker Carlson?

  Who I think is not a, he's a vet, right?

• 3:28Speaker 02

  He's a vet, correct.

• 3:29Tucker Carlson?

  And you're a surgeon, but they tried to put you in prison for the rest of your life. But Bula is now a billionaire because he is involved in a scam where US tax dollars go into his pocket and there's nothing we can do about it.

• 3:43Speaker 02

  Right.

• 3:43Tucker Carlson?

  And if you complain about it, by the way.

• 3:45Speaker 02

  Then they shut you down and censor you and they try to arrest you or they do arrest.

• 3:49Tucker Carlson?

  So this Bula creep, this ghoul has been showing up at the, he's been at the White House a bunch, I think.

• 3:54Speaker 02

  Right.

• 3:54Tucker Carlson?

  And, um, he's been spinning.

• 3:56Speaker 02

  Well, and Donald Trump has called him out saying, "Hey, this is my best friend," or not my best friend, but this is a, you know, really good friend of mine, you know, Bula and, uh, you know, and, and kind of praised what they've done.

• 4:09Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah. How about I call you when my dog has puppies? Okay. Like, what are you doing? What is this? Anyway, sorry, sorry, sorry. So, but, but Trump's position up until apparently this morning, as far as I know.

• 4:21Speaker 02

  Right.

• 4:22Tucker Carlson?

  Has been Operation Warp Speed, which he.

• 4:24Speaker 02

  Saved millions of lives.

• 4:25Tucker Carlson?

  Saves millions of lives. It was like Jonas Salk's polio vaccine and. So the last line in here is, it was brilliant, as many say it was. If not, we want to know what happened.

• 4:39Speaker 02

  And that's, like I said, that is the first time that I've heard him maybe somewhat question the effectiveness or what actually was behind Operation Warp Speed. Operation Warp Speed was a DoD operation. It was run by a general, General Perna. And there's a lot of evidence out there, and Sacha Lepov and Catherine Watt, and a lot of people have put out information that essentially, the DoD is who developed these jabs, these COVID vaccines. And then they in turn asked Pfizer and Moderna to slap their label on it for money, and then distribute them, because it was a military operation in terms of this whole.

• 5:23Tucker Carlson?

  What's the US military doing in my healthcare?

• 5:27Speaker 02

  Look, there's all kinds of agencies that are out there, and they have all these acronyms, ASPER, BARDA, DARPA. I couldn't begin to tell you what they stand for, but it's crazy how much. It was a change in biological warfare. When we, back, I think I want to say in the 70s, when chasing or biological warfare became a crime, and we said we were going to get rid of everything that we do, and all of these biological weapons, and all of these things here that we could use to kill people with clouds of germs, okay?

• 6:11Tucker Carlson?

  Lyme disease.

• 6:12Speaker 02

  Lyme disease.

• 6:14Tucker Carlson?

  Excuse me, sorry.

• 6:16Speaker 02

  But when, so when we changed, when we made, we actually passed a law, it's a federal law that says we're not allowed to do that.

• 6:22Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, we signed a convention, I think.

• 6:24Speaker 02

  Yes. But what happened is, just like the scientists from Operation Paperclip went to the tobacco industry, and then from the tobacco industry to the food industry.

• 6:39Speaker 02

  The scientists that went from these biological weapons development programs went to essentially a, an umbrella organization that was used to combat biological warfare. So they used it under the auspices of, um, we are going to develop these things as an antidote or as a treatment for the potential bioweapons that somebody else.

• 7:02Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, we're going to keep our research going.

• 7:05Speaker 02

  Right.

• 7:05Tucker Carlson?

  To defend ourselves against the Russian bio program.

• 7:08Speaker 02

  Right.

• 7:08Tucker Carlson?

  And that's why we need all these bio labs in Ukraine and shut up conspiracy theorists if you ask about them.

• 7:12Speaker 02

  Right, right.

• 7:13Tucker Carlson?

  I will say as someone who, uh, smoked for many years and also got Lyme disease, that I got a lot more out of smoking than I did at Lyme disease. Okay. So those were like, I guess, two products of government programs and one was a lot better than the other from my perspective. So, okay, I just had to, I want a perspective on this. So that was my.

• 7:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm, I mean, you said that came out this morning. I had not seen that.

• 7:35Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 7:35Speaker 02

  Everything up until this point was, you know, Operation Warp Speed saved lives, Operation Warp Speed saved millions of lives. You know, it's the best thing, you know, the best thing that ever happened. I'm so proud of what we did and, you know, and everything else. And like you said, he's been pushing, um, you know, the Pfizer and Moderna CEOs and everything else. And what a great job they did and everything else. I'm really interested to see what numbers it is that they're showing them that they can't show the public.

• 7:56Tucker Carlson?

  We could fix all of this just by stripping them of their immunity. I don't, do you have blanket immunity?

• 8:01Speaker 02

  Oh, my gosh.

• 8:01Tucker Carlson?

  In your job?

• 8:02Speaker 02

  So I don't have blanket immunity.

• 8:03Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, you don't? I don't either, actually.

• 8:05Speaker 02

  Right.

• 8:05Tucker Carlson?

  So I get sued or whatever.

• 8:07Speaker 02

  Look, um.

• 8:08Tucker Carlson?

  So why do they have blanket immunity?

• 8:09Speaker 02

  Ah, well, one, vaccines have blanket immunity from the 1986 National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act.

• 8:15Tucker Carlson?

  Correct.

• 8:16Speaker 02

  Okay. Um, and then the PREP Act in 2005. So the PREP Act in 2005 further extended that, that when they declare a state of emergency, then everybody, there's no, there's no liability. So now everything done under EUA has no liability. And as a matter of fact, the law even says that our judicial branch can't even review that law. So how is that constitutional and how has that not been challenged? We're talking 20 years here where we had a legislative body in 2005 and signed by the president, George Bush at the time, that basically said that anything that's passed under emergency use authorization, um, has no liability and the judicial branch of our government can't review it.

• 8:58Tucker Carlson?

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• 9:43Tucker Carlson?

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• 12:14Tucker Carlson?

  So there are all of us US citizens, little worker bees who keep the thing going. And then there are leaders, but then above even our leaders, above the Supreme Court of the United States sits the vaccine industry. And they're like the gods, they're Zeus and Jupiter. And there's literally nothing we can do to them. Yeah.

• 12:35Tucker Carlson?

  Okay, none of this.

• 12:36Speaker 02

  I'm glad you figured that out.

• 12:38Tucker Carlson?

  It's dawning slowly.

• 12:41Tucker Carlson?

  I knew that I committed some kind of blasphemy, but I wasn't exactly sure against whom, but it's against Albert Burla. The vet. And I am going to call him next time my dog gets distemper. You know, eats another mop and he's some pull the strands out.

• 12:54Speaker 02

  Swallows a sock or something.

• 12:56Tucker Carlson?

  Excuse me, I love vets. He's a discredit to the business. Okay, your story, you're a surgeon, you live in, in Utah. You're from a military family, your dad was a test pilot, flew over a hundred missions in Vietnam. So you've been around the government a lot. Obviously you grew up in a government world.

• 13:15Tucker Carlson?

  Um, COVID happens 2020. Let's begin your story there.

• 13:20Speaker 02

  So, yeah.

• 13:22Tucker Carlson?

  What were you doing? What was, what was your reaction to it?

• 13:24Speaker 02

  So COVID happens, I'm, you know, I'm operating, I operate two days a week. I see patients two, three days a week. I operate Tuesday, Thursday. I actually listen to podcasts, probably listen to a lot of your shows. You know, 2020, I was probably listening to a lot of Dan Bongino. And, uh, you know, and I also follow a guy that I used to do a lot of options trading with, and he used to trade his options based upon current world events. And so he was talking about the whole COVID thing. So all through January, February and early March, you know, he's doing trades and he's talking about, you know, all of this stuff that was happening with COVID and all of the people that were killing over in, in China and all the lockdowns that were happening and how it had expanded into Italy and now it was into Spain and all this stuff.

• 14:08Speaker 02

  And I, I had, I'm busy. Okay. And so I don't have a lot of time to do a lot of my own research and look into all of this stuff. I mean, I'm conservative by nature anyway. I mean, I'm, you know, Republican, probably more libertarian than I am Republican. But, uh, you know, I, I had no reason to doubt what was going on. So on March 17th, Tuesday afternoon, I get home, I must have seen something on the TV. We'd already had some lockdowns in some of the states in this country. We'd already had Italy had gone into complete lockdown in Spain. And so at that point, I, again, without knowing anything anymore, I called my office manager and I said, hey,

• 14:48Speaker 02

  we're not gonna, we're gonna cancel all surgeries. We're gonna close the doors. I can't risk getting sick, bringing it home to my kids. And so let's just have somebody, just have one person in the office. Let's lock the doors. Have one person there answering the phones. And so we did that on March 17.

• 15:08Speaker 02

  In other words, you took it very seriously. I did, because I didn't know anything about it. Me too. I agree. And, and I tell this story all the time. It wasn't 24, 36 hours that I'd done a total 180, a complete 180. By Thursday morning of March, so 19th, okay? I was like, oh my gosh, I gotta open the doors back up. By this time, I'd already canceled my surgeries. I couldn't really just turn around and, you know, do everything. So, but by that time, I realized that it was all fake. And In two days? In two days. How?

• 15:42Speaker 02

  I got online and started reading articles. I got online and started reading about viruses and refreshing myself on microbiology. And going back to kind of basic, what I felt was basic science and trying to understand, hey, how do these things work? How does, you know, how does an epidemic happen? How does a pandemic happen? You know, and then you realize that they changed the definition of pandemic some time before that so that it would apply. I realized that at the time that they declared, it wasn't the pandemic yet.

• 16:11Speaker 02

  But they declared some sort of kind of international emergency in like in the middle of January. And then the WHO declared their fake P H E I C pandemic. Okay, the Public Health Emergency of International Concern. Okay, that's what that stands for. I think they do this all on purpose. Okay, but when you sound it out, it's fake. Okay. And, you know, I realized that there actually were only 44 cases of COVID total in the whole world by the end of January. And there was one death.

• 16:43Speaker 02

  Due to that. And the one death was to, I think he was a physician, actually an ophthalmologist in China at the time. And they supposedly had isolated this. I don't know how they isolated it. They didn't have, you know, they didn't have a test and didn't have anything that was available for them to isolate it. So again, the whole thing just kind of started falling apart. You knew there was lying at the center? I knew there was all kinds of lying going on. And then I started, so then I started going, okay, well, what can I do about it? So I knew it was a lie, but what can I do about it? And the first huge flag to me was when we were told that as physicians, there's no treatment.

• 17:20Speaker 02

  You can't treat this. Well, last I heard, COVID is a flu-like illness. Nausea, malaise, fever, chills, uh, lost the taste and smell, which happened in the flu. Anyway, um, nothing was, you know, nothing was pathognomonic, which means nothing was directly attributed only to this one disease. And so what did we used to do for the flu? Treat them symptomatically, give them, I, you know, give them something for their fever, give them something for their flu symptoms, give them something for the sinus infection, give them something for whatever it is that, you know, whatever their problems were. If they're having diarrhea, then you give them something to help with their diarrhea. Whatever their symptoms were, you would treat those symptoms. Well, why weren't we treating those symptoms? We just weren't. It was like, all of a sudden, there's no treatment.

• 18:02Tucker Carlson?

  So can I ask, I mean, and it's especially relevant to us, the rest of us are just trying to figure out what the hell is going on. You're a doctor in practice, clinical practice.

• 18:12Speaker 02

  Right.

• 18:12Tucker Carlson?

  You're seeing patients, you're a surgeon, and you're a licensed physician. How do you get that guidance? How do you know that? Like, who tells you, we just don't have treatment for this?

• 18:22Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, the media was telling us, we don't have treatment for it.

• 18:25Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 18:26Speaker 02

  And Fauci was telling us that there's no treatment for it. And just wait till you're turning, you know, you turn blue in the face, you can't get up, you're, you know, on death's doorstep and call an ambulance and then we'll treat you and we'll take care of you.

• 18:36Tucker Carlson?

  But is there a special doctor website you go to? I mean, your neighbors are probably like, hey, you're a doctor, what should I do about this COVID?

• 18:41Speaker 02

  Well, that's right. So people are calling me.

• 18:43Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 18:44Speaker 02

  So I'm treating them the way I would have treated any other flu-like illness.

• 18:47Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 18:48Speaker 02

  That's what I was doing. I have a lot of primary care experience. In addition to my plastic surgery, um, I was in the military for three years. So I took care of flight squadrons for three years as a primary care doc for, you know, for pilots in a, you know, in a squadron, uh, in addition to taking care of people in a clinic. And I'd moonlighted in emergency rooms at least twice a day or twice a week for, you know, 12, 24 hour shifts. So I did that for eight years. Okay. I was going back during my residency, I would leave for a weekend and I would go back to Meridian, Mississippi, and I would work from 6:00 PM on a Friday night until 10:00 AM on a Sunday. So I'd leave my training on Friday afternoon on the weekend that I was not on call. And I would go and I would work in an emergency room until 10:00 AM on Sunday and get on a flight and go back.

• 19:32Tucker Carlson?

  Damn.

• 19:32Speaker 02

  So I did that in order to supplement my income, but it also gave me a lot of experience and it gave me, you know, a lot more primary care experience than what we typically would have gotten out of, you know, another surgery resident or plastic surgery resident. So I just fell back on my experience. And but again, I hated microbiology in medical school. Okay, just I despised it, didn't like it. Looking at, you know, bugs in a microscope and reading. And so I always relied on the pathologist to say, hey, this is your lab test. This is what we grew out of your microbiology sample. And then this is what it's sensitive to. And so I go, okay, well, you need that antibiotic. Here you go. Okay. Yeah. That's that was my microbiology experience through practice. Okay. But I had to go back and review all that stuff. So I so I did.

• 20:15Speaker 02

  And I just I got online because it wasn't nothing was online back then when I was in school. But I was just able to get back on there and read articles and read journal articles and get on. I was pulling things from libraries, you know, because I have privileges at a hospital. Or I did then I don't anymore, but I did then. So I had access to their library. So I would I would send them, hey, I want to see this article. Give me the because I would read the abstract online. Now go, I want to read this article. So they would send me the article and I'd usually get it within 12 to 24 hours.

• 20:44Speaker 02

  And so that's what I was doing. I mean, I did that throughout this whole time. And and I realized that there were a lot of, you know, a lot of discrepancies, let's say, and a lot of lies that I was getting out of Fauci and Burks and all the people that were, you know, that were talking about it. Every once in a while, you would hear something, you know, like a little bleep from Scott Atlas or Paul Alexander, who was in the White House at that time, who were kind of like, you know, like they're on our side, yes. Yes. Where they would say, hey, this this really isn't what's happening. So, I mean, I use the analogy a lot with what they told us about COVID, with what I had a lot of experience with at that time. And that was breast cancer.

• 21:27Speaker 02

  So it the analogy to me about no treatment for this disease was analogous to somebody coming to me as a plastic surgeon, as breast cancer surgeon, saying, hey, you have a lady here who's got a small little nodule on her breast that we've either seen on mammogram or we felt through a physical exam. But we're not going to do anything about that until it's a big fungating wound and it's eroded through her skin. And now you see and you can feel lymph nodes in her groin. And we can do a CT scan and see, you know, that she's got metastases to her brain and to her, you know, to her lungs. That was the analogy that I was using in explaining this to people when we're telling people that there's no treatment for it. That's when you put it that way, it's horrifying.

• 22:12Speaker 02

  It is horrifying. It was and it was an absolute lie. Because you know, there is treatment. We've always treated the flu. Okay, just because they supposedly found a new strain of the flu, doesn't mean that you don't treat it. Right? Um, and so that led me to understanding that, hey, there's something nefarious going on here.

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• 24:39Tucker Carlson?

  But that's even I can understand your reasoning.

• 24:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:44Tucker Carlson?

  Why didn't 90% of doctors say, hey, we're in the treatment business. That's what we do. And all of a sudden they're telling us on CNN, we're not allowed to treat this illness. That's a problem.

• 24:54Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah, it's actually more like 99%. Okay. It's a very small percentage of us.

• 24:59Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, I've never been to the doctor again, and I'm not going. Because they so disgraced themselves.

• 25:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:05Tucker Carlson?

  And I, and I would very much like to see a lot of doctors stand trial for that. But that'll never happen, of course. Um, but, but anyway, but why didn't, I mean, that's so obvious.

• 25:14Speaker 02

  So they shut us down. Um, I got, I got kicked off of Facebook. I got kicked off of Twitter. Um, I was, you know, posting articles of things that I was reading, um, that at the time I could find, I've since gone back and without going back through the Wayback Machine, it's not there. Um, so they've taken things, they've just completely whitewashed a lot of this stuff. And they were doing it. They were shutting us down. All these docs out there, Vladimir Zelenko, um, you know, who passed away from a, you know, a pulmonary angiosarcoma, but, um, uh, you know, he was one of the first people that I listened to. He's the one that sent that video to Donald Trump. He's the one I believe that Donald Trump saw the video of and came out and spoke in favor of hydroxychloroquine.

• 25:57Speaker 02

  And then right after that, Fauci, the little gnome gets up there and goes, oh, this is just anecdotal and hydroxychloroquine doesn't work. Do you know that he wrote an article back in 2007, 2008 espousing the benefits of using hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine in the treatment of SARS? Okay. And SARS-1, which is the disease in the early 2000s, um, has a 73% homology with SARS-2, the virus that they claim that is out there right now. So 73%. They actually did a study back in 2020 and they took a number of people. I want to say it wasn't a very large number. It might've only been 10 people, but they had 10 people, then they checked their serology. They checked their blood, um, for antibodies to SARS-1. And they found out that all 10 of those people also had immunity to SARS-2.

• 26:40Speaker 02

  Okay, there was an article that was published out there. I can't find it anymore. All right. But they checked their blood and they checked antibodies and they checked to see whether in a lab test, obviously, okay, they didn't infect these people or find the virus. But they checked it against a blood sample with somebody or a blood sample of the COVID disease and they found that they had killed the COVID disease. All 10 of them. So if you survived SARS one, okay, and you had antibodies to it, which I'm sure it was circulating widely, okay, and it's a reason why not a lot of people died. They had they had immunity to SARS two, but they didn't want that out there. And that was the whole objective is they don't want that information out there. Because if there's treatment, okay, you can't announce for you can't

• 27:25Speaker 02

  declare a state of emergency and get the emergency use authorization and then launch the COVID vaccine. I mentioned before that I had three things that I saw that were red flags to me. The first one was the treatment. Okay, the second one was every single country, every single government in the world was doing the exact same thing. You and I can't agree on whether you want baked potatoes or sweet potatoes for Thanksgiving dinner. Okay, but yet you have 208 countries that are going to do the exact same thing when the everybody was in lockstep. Okay, absolute everybody is doing the same thing. They're taking these drugs off the market, ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine are over the counter in France and they got taken off the market. Oh, yeah.

• 28:07Speaker 02

  And, you know, we got the I was ordering hydroxychloroquine for my office. Okay, and for about six months, eight months, I couldn't get it. It was gone. Just I couldn't order it. I was on back order. It was, you know, I had ordered some because I was having my patients come in and I was treating them in the office with hydroxychloroquine. And I'm not allowed to dispense medications, but I was having them come in because they couldn't get it. I was writing so many prescriptions for hydroxychloroquine in March, late March, early April of 2020, that the pharmacies, the Walgreens pharmacies that I used a lot of in the town that I'm in right now. They called me and they said, we don't have anymore. We can't get anymore. I had wiped them out of all their hydroxychloroquine without just writing it for my patients,

• 28:52Speaker 02

  my family, my friends and everybody else. Cause I, I was just like, hey, here's Zelenko's protocol. Okay. Hydroxychloroquine, zithromax, vitamin C, vitamin D and zinc. And I was, and I was just telling everybody, I just, I took exactly what he did and what he was treating. Cause I think he'd treated 800 patients by that time and he'd only had one patient die and that patient had only come to him more than three weeks out from starting, you know, from getting sick. None of his patients had died. None of my patients died. Everybody that I treated, and I treated people from 2020 until 2022, 2023. Okay. And I'm still treating occasional patient for COVID. I'm, I'm not sure it exists, but,

• 29:33Speaker 02

  but I treat the symptoms and I treat them all the same way. Not one of my patients died. Not one of them went to the hospital. Not one of them got intubated. Okay. Not one of them got any more sick. As a matter of fact, I had, I can't tell you the number of times that somebody would call me and they would take a dose of ivermectin or take a dose of hydroxychloroquine. And within hours, they're like, I can breathe. I can feel better. Okay. Is it a placebo? I don't know. But my point is it happened over and over and over again. And like I said, none of these patients got sick.

• 30:02Tucker Carlson?

  I've heard that from other physicians, the small number who prescribed that protocol and had similar results. What's interesting about what you're saying is that you believe that the treatment, specific treatments for COVID were banned by governments because they were effective.

• 30:22Speaker 02

  Yeah. Cause if they have a treatment, then they can't, and they can't announce or they can't declare a state of emergency and have an emergency use authorization. That law requires that there is no treatment for them to then put the third flag to me was the vaccine. Nothing's going to get back to normal until you put a needle in everybody's arm. 8.4 billion people on this earth need a needle in their arm in order to survive and to be a member and contributing member of society. So that was strike number three for me.

• 30:49Tucker Carlson?

  I remember very early in 2020, there was a study out of China that showed that heavy cigarette smokers had a lower mortality rate. Which was like, kind of unforgettable. I mean, what? It was, this is a respiratory illness and smokers are doing better than not? Like, what is that? And the conclusion that they reached was that nicotine has some kind of prophylactic effect. I don't, I never followed up. But I did notice that the European Union almost immediately banned online sales of nicotine pouches.

• 31:24Tucker Carlson?

  What?

• 31:26Tucker Carlson?

  What is that?

• 31:30Tucker Carlson?

  I mean, you don't want to let your brain go there, but like-

• 31:33Speaker 02

  Well, again, they'll call it a conspiracy theory, but it's not. It's an actual conspiracy.

• 31:37Tucker Carlson?

  Well, that's a fact. I mean, that's, I'm just saying what happened. But like, what is that?

• 31:40Speaker 02

  Right. And, and it's done on purpose because they want to launch this vaccine. That's what they're trying to do.

• 31:47Tucker Carlson?

  Man, well, that just raises a whole bunch of other questions that I've been mulling over for the past five years. But anyway, I'm sorry, I'm stepping on your story. So, um, okay, so you're, within two days of taking COVID seriously, now you flipped your view based on the evidence as a practicing physician. You start prescribing this Lenco regimen to people, it works.

• 32:10Speaker 02

  Right.

• 32:11Tucker Carlson?

  And then the final red flag, the vaccine.

• 32:13Speaker 02

  Right.

• 32:13Tucker Carlson?

  What happened?

• 32:14Speaker 02

  Well, we started hearing about the vaccine probably, I don't know, late spring, early summer. You know, May, April, well, you know, late April, May-ish of 2020 was when people are like, hey, I think we're going to get a vaccine and we're going to have something, you know, in short order. And before I knew a whole bunch about it, I don't even know if I'd heard the, the term Operation Warp Speed yet. But, you know, I, I, you know, I mentioned earlier that I don't really like vaccines. I don't think they help. I've had arguments with friends, family, I've had arguments with colleagues that I no longer talk to over vaccines. I mean, it's a, it's a cult and they, they say that we're a cult. People that believe in vaccines is a cult. It's a belief system.

• 32:58Speaker 02

  It's not based on science. It's not based on anything. I got my hepatitis B vaccine when I started medical school in 1989. I got one shot. Within hours, I had shingles. I mean, a real bad patch of shingles in my left armpit. And it hurt like hell. And I just, but I remember it very distinctly. I didn't get the second one. I didn't get the third one. Nobody was chasing me down. Okay, nobody. So just because I didn't get it, I wasn't like some pariah somewhere in there.

• 33:26Tucker Carlson?

  But you had a demonstrable vaccine injury.

• 33:28Speaker 02

  But I had, well, what I felt was a, you know, vaccine injury. And I mean, I'm just starting medical school. I don't know. But I'm, I have enough common sense, okay, to, to know and to think that, hey, you know, the timeliness of this, that I, you know, what happened to me? Why am I getting a shingles, you know, eruption when I've never had shingles in my past?

• 33:46Tucker Carlson?

  And you're a healthy man in your twenties.

• 33:47Speaker 02

  I'm a healthy guy in my twenties. I'm playing soccer three days a week. You know,

• 33:51Tucker Carlson?

  You don't have immune suppression that you're aware of.

• 33:53Speaker 02

  Immune suppression that I'm aware of. I don't have any problems. But I get this huge patch of shingles that hurt like hell. And, you know, and so I just, I refused any other vaccine. And, but I, at the time, we're talking, you know, 1989, nobody's chasing me. Now you see people that are kind of like, you know, you see the military, you know, you see her stories. I just heard a story the other day of a guy who was in the army, ROTC, did nothing but want to be in the army for his whole life. And he joined the army, and he was kicked out of the army because he was standing there with his CO with paperwork that said, if you don't get this vaccine and we have to fire you or kick you out of

• 34:36Speaker 02

  the army, you are going to owe all this money back, or you can take this needle. Okay, that's, that was exactly the state, that, what they, you know.

• 34:45Tucker Carlson?

  Bow down before me and all of this will be yours.

• 34:47Speaker 02

  All of it, correct. And, you know, look, and to his credit, he said, no. And he signed the papers and he left. Funny story, they called him back, you know, just a year ago, and they were down on some deployment in Mexico with his unit.

• 35:04Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 35:04Speaker 02

  And they called him and said, where are you? Like they expected him to be there. Okay.

• 35:10Tucker Carlson?

  We gotta go fight the Houthis. Come on.

• 35:13Speaker 02

  So anyway, but because he's so into the army and really liked him, he actually ended up joining again. But my point being is.

• 35:20Tucker Carlson?

  What a nice guy.

• 35:21Speaker 02

  It's, yeah, I mean, certainly nicer than me. But, uh, but yeah, but that's the, you know, that, that was the, that, that was the mentality back then where there was just kind of, okay, you don't want it. You don't have to have it. We're just trying to do it for your best interest, you know, but there was no coercion. There's no, nobody's forcing me to do anything, you know? Flip that around. Okay. Where, you know, the first person that I see is Bill Gates saying that, well, nothing's going to be back to normal unless you get a needle in your arm. Well, who the fuck's Bill Gates?

• 35:50Tucker Carlson?

  Exactly. Is he a doctor?

• 35:52Speaker 02

  So I, well, I think he slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night, so.

• 35:56Tucker Carlson?

  Well, so that's like, kind of the irony here is that we were told, um, you know, for several years to trust the science and to listen to people who actually practice medicine. And you're a man of science and you practice medicine. You're a surgeon. So, uh, I would think that your opinion would have more weight than Bill Gates. Who's like some autistic rich guy who was really close to Jeffrey Epstein. What does he have to do with this? Fall is here and so is fall fashion. So let's talk about Cozy Earth. Cozy Earth pants and joggers are perfect when it starts to get chilly out. You can wear them at home, running, indoors, outdoors, even to work or on flights. And best of all, they are comfortable, really comfortable.

• 36:35Tucker Carlson?

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• 37:15Speaker 00

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• 38:07Speaker 05

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• 38:15Speaker 02

  Well, and not only that, but why not even more credence than... And I'm not saying that I have any more, you know, um, I mean, I'm no more ex... No more of an expert than, than anybody else is from the standpoint of being a doctor, okay? But why are some doctors being shut off and some are not? Well, if that's... You know, look, Anthony Fauci never took care of a patient in his life, okay? He, he did his residency at the NIH. He did his training at the NIH. He's a federal bureaucrat. And he's a bureaucrat, okay? Deborah Burke's the same way. I mean, she did some stuff in the military, but I think she was all kind of all administrative, never took care of patients. And so all of a sudden, we're supposed to trust these people that never, that never been on the front lines, never took care of patients, have never seen an illness, are just looking at it from the standpoint of reading a book, or reading an article, or

• 38:59Speaker 02

  listening to some podcast, or listening to some, you know, going to some meetings or something like that, okay? And we're, and now all of a sudden, these are, you know, the, they, you know, kind of like the media-proclaimed experts in all this. I'll tell you, before 2020, I'd been in practice exactly 19 years, okay? I graduated from, I graduated, well, so let's count medical school. I graduated from medical school in 1993, all right? And then from 1993 to 2020, I had been to... The CDC website to ask them advice on what I needed to do for my practice exactly zero times. Okay, zero. There is never any reason for anybody, at least my perspective, to go to the CDC. I'm reading articles. I'm listening to my colleagues. I'm talking, you know, I'm,

• 39:42Speaker 02

  I'm, I go to meetings. I, you know, I, I kind of review cases with some of my friends and some of my colleagues about certain things, but I've never, never gone to the CDC.

• 39:53Tucker Carlson?

  So a practicing physician trying to keep current with the science would have no, which you're apparently doing, would have no reason to consult CDC?

• 40:01Speaker 02

  No, none. There's nothing that the CDC is going to put out that is, you know, that is informative to me. Now, maybe they put out stuff for maybe some pediatricians or family practice docs that maybe they follow or something like that, I guess. But, you know,

• 40:18Tucker Carlson?

  Well, they're liars. I mean, they, they can't even admit that Lyme was a bioweapon. Okay, which is very obvious to anyone who pays any attention at all. And all these, you know, so they're liars. So they're just discredited, I would say, right there.

• 40:31Speaker 02

  Well, and you mentioned, boy, did you just made me think about something and now I can't think about it. I can't remember what I was.

• 40:42Tucker Carlson?

  Cause you're making

• 40:42Speaker 02

  Oh, oh, oh, the first, the even the very first, one of the very first articles that was even put out on the CDC website about COVID, okay, about COVID, said that of all the people that had supposedly died of COVID, okay, only 6% of them did not have a comorbidity. Meaning,

• 41:03Speaker 02

  that they're only 6% of the people that they claimed had died from COVID actually died just with COVID.

• 41:09Tucker Carlson?

  Right. And the rest were in like a motorcycle accident or it's stage four pancreatic cancer.

• 41:13Speaker 02

  Right. Or had two other comorbidities. The average, the average comorbidity was 2.2. So in other words, they had two other diseases that were going on at the same time.

• 41:22Tucker Carlson?

  Just happened to have advanced COPD and

• 41:24Speaker 02

  Advanced COPD and diabetes or diabetes or, you know, or morbid obesity or something along those lines. And then they died of COVID. You know, the, the real answer is they may have died with COVID. Okay. But they, they probably died from something else. And you mentioned that.

• 41:40Tucker Carlson?

  Well, but I mean, okay. So you're the, you're the science, professional science guy. If, if you catch someone lying, I mean, that like invalidates everything else, doesn't it?

• 41:50Speaker 02

  It should.

• 41:52Tucker Carlson?

  I mean, lying is the one thing that's not allowed in science. It's science, the the process is designed to be for honesty, right? For clarity. Like, we can't lie about anything. I thought that was the whole point of science.

• 42:07Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah. So the whole point of science is not to lie, and the whole point is to never believe that there's not something that can be improved on it. Science is never-

• 42:15Tucker Carlson?

  Right, including to yourself. You can't lie to yourself.

• 42:17Speaker 02

  Correct. Science is never settled. And, and, you know, a number of times where, you know, well, this is settled science. No, it's not. Okay. And I'll tell you, the, it's a much bigger picture. Okay. Big Pharma, I call them Big Harma, okay. They own everything. Right? There's a number of journals that have come out, or editors, past chief editors of journals. And we're not talking just, you know, like some throwaway journals. We're talking New England Journal of Medicine, Lancet, British Medical Journal, okay, some of the biggest journals in the world. Those are top three out of the top four that I just

• 42:58Speaker 02

  named. Journal of American Medical Association is the other one. But chief editors in the last 20 years, at least six of them have come out and said that at least 50% of the science that's published is fake. Come on. Read their quotes. Marcia Angel is one of them, that I can remember her name. There's a guy by the name of Richard something or other from the British Medical Journal who said the same thing. I just, I just read an article about it just the other day. I'll, I'll send it to you because it-

• 43:28Tucker Carlson?

  I'm not surprised. I mean, the depth of corruption is, is stunning. And the fact that pretty much nothing's been done about it makes you wonder, you know, how long this can all last. So back to your story, which I keep distracting from my, I'm sorry, you're making me mad. So it's, it's hard to keep focused.

• 43:47Tucker Carlson?

  So the vaccine is announced. What, how do you respond to that? What happens next?

• 43:53Speaker 02

  Well, so for me, the vaccine was fine because I was just telling all my patients, all my friends, all my family, just like I was doing from previous vaccines. So my daughter was only partially vaccinated. My son was not. I have only had one vaccine in the last 20 years, and that was a yellow fever shot so that I can go on humanitarian trip to go to Ghana. That was it. I tried to bribe the nurse to not give it to me and squirt it in the garbage, and she wouldn't do it. But I figured, hey, one shot, maybe, okay, I'll be all right. I think I am. Some people argue. But when it came out, I was just, you know, I'm just telling everybody, don't, don't take it. It's not worth it. You know, we, we've been trying to try to, we've been trying to find a vaccine for cancer for 100 years. We've been trying to find a vaccine for AIDS for

• 44:38Speaker 02

  the last 40. And now all of a sudden, we're going to find the, the vaccine for the common cold virus in less than nine months. That's been with us since the dawn of time? No. So I was just really happy just to tell everybody, don't, you know, don't take it. It's not worth it. It's too risky. It's experimental. Just stay away from it. And I thought we were going to be just fine. And nobody wanted to give Donald Trump credit for the vaccine prior to the election. I'm sure you remember that.

• 45:09Tucker Carlson?

  I do.

• 45:09Speaker 02

  And then as soon as Biden gets elected, you know, they're like, I'll never take that vaccine. You know, Biden, Kamala Harris are like, oh, that's the Trump vaccine. No way. I'm not going to touch it. January 20th of 2020 comes around, and all of a sudden, oh, it's, you know, everybody should get it. It's the greatest thing, you know, and all that. And then, and then when they found out that people were not, did not want it, they started forcing it. And they started talking about, well, it's free. You should get it. You see, get, get your free donuts. Get your free Happy Meal. You know, all of this stuff that was out there trying to just convince people to get it. California is trying to pass laws so that 13 year old kids could get it without their parents' permission.

• 45:52Speaker 02

  I mean, there was a case in Virginia, I believe, where a 13 year old kid or 16 year old kid actually told the doctor that he didn't want it. The doctor gave it to him anyway, and they ended up filing a lawsuit. And I think they lost that lawsuit, actually. The family won the lawsuit, let's say. The doctor did lose that lawsuit.

• 46:10Tucker Carlson?

  Good.

• 46:11Speaker 02

  But, you know, that's, you know, but I was okay. I'm just telling everybody, don't do it. Then the mandates happen. You're not going to be able to go to school without a shot. You're not going to be able to have a job without a shot. You're not going to be able to travel without a shot. So people that whose job depended on them traveling. You're not going to be able to stay in the military without getting your COVID shot. And the worst case to me was people that were mandated to get a potentially danger. Well, I already knew it was dangerous. I'd already met a number of people that had already been vaccine injured. There were 700 VAERS deaths that were reported.

• 46:48Tucker Carlson?

  I knew one of them. In January 2021, I knew someone who dropped dead.

• 46:52Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 46:53Tucker Carlson?

  From it.

• 46:53Speaker 02

  And there were 700 reported deaths in the month of January alone. Okay, just in one month.

• 47:01Tucker Carlson?

  And that's VAERS. That's self-reporting.

• 47:03Speaker 02

  That's self-reporting, correct. Okay, or self-reporting or reported by, you know, a physician. Actually, physicians are actually required to report complications. Okay, it's a, it's a law. You're, you're required to do that. They'll get around it because they'll say, well, I, I didn't really think that it was because of vaccine.

• 47:21Tucker Carlson?

  It's subjective. We don't know.

• 47:21Speaker 02

  You know, I mean, we don't really know, so I didn't report it. But there were 700 reported cases. There was this, there was a Harvard study done in the 2010, 2014, something like that, that said that the VAERS reports under the VAERS, you know, VAERS under reports things by at least one to 10%. Okay. So that means we could have had in the month of January, we could have had 7,000 deaths or 70,000 deaths at a 1% rate. And there's over 40,000 that are not over, maybe. I think we're right at 40,000 now.

• 47:53Tucker Carlson?

  Dead.

• 47:53Speaker 02

  Dead that have been reported since January of 21. Okay. So that means we either have 400,000 or 4 million deaths. Okay. According, just according to those numbers. But again, so the mandates come out and I said that the last straw for me, not straw, but I mean, the last thing was when they were requiring people to get a transplant. If you want a transplant, you need a kidney transplant in order to survive, you've got to go get the COVID vaccine.

• 48:18Tucker Carlson?

  The official story on 9/11 is a complete lie. The 9/11 report is a joke.

• 48:25Speaker 06

  You have CIA following two men all over the planet and then eventually even to America, right? And you don't tell the FBI. 9/11 Commission, cover.

• 48:42Tucker Carlson?

  So what did happen? What did the government know? What did foreign governments know? There was a cover-up. Why? It's been nearly 25 years and it's time Americans learned what actually happened. We're going to tell you. We're releasing one episode per week. You're not going to want to wait. If you're a member, you don't have to. You get all five episodes the day it drops, right then, ad-free. Our first episode airs Thursday, 9/11, September 11th. You will not want to miss it. Join us now at TuckerCarlson.com.

• 49:17Speaker 00

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• 49:46Tucker Carlson?

  So that's where, so, you know, if I were running things, I would find out who made that decision and they'd be punished for it. They'd be on trial for that. I mean, that's the cruelest thing I can imagine. We covered that at the time. I couldn't believe, that's when you sort of lose faith in like your country's systems. Right. Like, if that's the result, if someone can actually reach that conclusion and everyone around them is like, "Oh, no, good plan. Let's say people die." Right. Unless they take this vax, which we're supposedly giving because it's life-saving. We're going to just kill people if they won't obey. That's the point where you're like, we need a new system because that's evil. Well...

• 50:22Speaker 02

  We live in a system where if something works, everybody wants it. If something is good, everybody's gonna pay for it and everybody's gonna want to have it.

• 50:32Tucker Carlson?

  Exactly right.

• 50:33Speaker 02

  Okay, but when you're coercing people and forcing people to do it, there's gotta be something wrong.

• 50:38Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 50:38Speaker 02

  Okay, and I don't know, we talked about this briefly earlier. I don't know how, as a physician, you can feel comfortable injecting a product into somebody's arm that you don't even know what's in it. Okay, the product.

• 50:55Tucker Carlson?

  Good question.

• 50:56Speaker 02

  The product data sheet, the safety data sheet that comes with it, you unfold it. It's this thing folded up in this box.

• 51:03Tucker Carlson?

  Origami.

• 51:04Speaker 02

  Okay, it's like an origami and you unfold it and it says intentionally left blank on the front and back. And so you have doctors that are taking that vial that's in the same box, reconstituting it and then injecting it into people's arms. What did you just inject? What did you just give them? How do you know that it's safe? Where's the information? Where's the data? Cause we're talking 2021, right? There is no science, no data, nothing has been published and nothing was gonna get published until Aaron Siri filed that FOIA request and that lawsuit and the government required it to be published over the course of the next nine months. So none of this information was even available until 2022.

• 51:47Speaker 02

  Okay, and we still don't really know what's in these products. Okay, everybody's talking about the lipid nanoparticle. Everybody's talking about the, you know, the, um, the product, the mRNA and all of that stuff that's in these injections. All of the animal studies on the mRNA, all the animals died. Okay, and the one of the last articles that I read on it said, this, this is not ready for human use yet. Okay, and now, you know, nine months later, a year later, okay, we're injecting it into eight point four, 8.4 billion people on this earth. When it's not ready for human use and yet we've transitioned, okay,

• 52:27Speaker 02

  to, to giving it to every human because Anthony Fauci says that the science is settled and that he is Mr. Science.

• 52:35Tucker Carlson?

  He is science itself.

• 52:36Speaker 02

  He is science. Yep.

• 52:40Tucker Carlson?

  So how, okay, so your perspective is really clear. It's obvious you feel a moral duty to do the right thing by your patients. The mandates come down. Where does that leave you?

• 52:53Speaker 02

  Well, so that's when I made a decision to do something. And my decision at that point was I signed up with the Utah Health Department to become a vaccine clinic. I've never given vaccines before, but I signed up and said that I can probably treat this number of people. They gave me, you know, gave me the form to sign. We signed it. I became a vaccine provider for the COVID vaccine. And instead of giving the COVID vaccine, I gave saline shots to kids and I just gave the cards to their parents.

• 53:22Tucker Carlson?

  How hard was it for you to reach that decision, that conclusion that you were willing to do that?

• 53:26Speaker 02

  I truly thought that this was just a decision between my patients. They're giving me a product to use that they want me to use, but I chose not to use it because I didn't think that the science supported it. And my patients were coming to me and agreed with my assessment. And therefore they, you know, they, I gave them full informed consent and I would show them the sheet, a piece of paper says intentionally left blank. Do you want me to inject this into your body? Okay. And anybody who's got any common sense is going to say no. All right. And that's exactly right. I saw you come to me as a patient and you say, hey, I have questions about this vaccine. Should I take it? Okay. And I give you my, my opinion, my professional opinion is all of the animals that they treated mRNA products with lipid nanoparticles died.

• 54:10Speaker 02

  They said that it wasn't ready for human use. Nine months later saying, now it's ready for human use in spite of the fact that we don't have any human studies in between this and we don't know what the studies are that they have done. And here's your product data sheet that says it's intentionally left blank. Would you like me to inject this into your arm? Anybody with common sense is going to say, no, thank you. And so I didn't. And I truly thought that. I was taking care of my patient, full informed consent. I'm abiding by my Hippocratic oath because like you, we just talked about this. We already knew that a lot of people had died. Okay, you knew somebody personally in January 21 that, you know, keeled over dead. I didn't know anybody personally at that time. I knew some people that had been injured from it. I did not know anybody personally, but I'm looking at the numbers. Okay, I'm like 700 people.

• 54:55Speaker 02

  I mean, they're the, the average number of people I think that have been reported deaths reported for all vaccines combined per month was probably in the low double digits. Okay. Prior to January 21. All right. In one month, we have 700 that are reported, 19,000 adverse events. By April, that number was 1,700. Okay. And I went back.

• 55:24Tucker Carlson?

  Dead.

• 55:25Speaker 02

  Dead. Okay. Reported to VAERS at a 1% to 10% number. Okay. So we're talking about 17,000 or 1.7 million people or 170,000 people, sorry. So 17,000 to 170,000 by April of that, of just three months later.

• 55:41Tucker Carlson?

  Can you explain informed consent? My understanding was informed consent, the idea came out of or was certainly bolstered by the experience of the Nuremberg trials.

• 55:53Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 55:54Tucker Carlson?

  And we learned that the Nazi medical program, which really was one of the worst things about Nazi Germany was the way physicians treated patients murdered a lot of them. But after that, the American Medical Association made a really clear statement about the moral requirement and legal requirement for doctors to tell their patients the potential consequences of, of the treatment. Is, is that?

• 56:18Speaker 02

  That's informed consent.

• 56:19Tucker Carlson?

  That's informed consent. You have a right to know.

• 56:21Speaker 02

  Well, you, I mean, you have a right to know and I have a right to tell you. I mean, I have, I have to tell you.

• 56:26Tucker Carlson?

  You have an obligation.

• 56:27Speaker 02

  I have an obligation to tell you, not just the right. I have an obligation to tell you, hey, look, this is what I think your treatment should be. First of all. You're coming to me with these symptoms, okay? And I'm telling you what I think that it is. And then this is what I propose as a treatment. Okay? And this treatment has these side effects and has these potential benefits. That's, that's informed consent. Okay? Across the board. And I've been doing that for years. I mean, I can't go to surgery without informed consent. Okay? I have a five-page informed consent form for my surgeries, whatever surgery it is that I'm doing. This is the risk, this is what I, you know, this is what I'm doing. And this is the reasons why we're doing it. This is what you agreed to doing, but these are the risks that are involved with that. Okay? I do it every single day. And that's part of medicine. That's part of what we were taught. It's part of the legal side of medicine, too.

• 57:12Speaker 02

  If I don't do informed consent to my patients and then they have a complication and they sue me and there's no informed consent on the chart, well, I'm screwed.

• 57:21Tucker Carlson?

  As you should be.

• 57:22Speaker 02

  And, you know, but why aren't we, why was nobody in this case? Nobody's given informed consent. How do you give informed consent on something that you don't even know what's in it? I mean, that to me is the, that, one of the number one things that I'm just sitting here going.

• 57:36Tucker Carlson?

  But where all the other doctor, I mean, so you're describing a system that was in place pre-COVID in which informed consent is the very center of the process. Like you don't get to cut on somebody ever without this formal process. Like here are the potential consequences. But everybody, every doctor knows this, right?

• 57:56Speaker 02

  Right. And it's supposed to be for medications. It's supposed to be for vaccines. It's supposed to be for injections.

• 58:00Tucker Carlson?

  Any treatment.

• 58:01Speaker 02

  For every, any treatment. Correct.

• 58:03Tucker Carlson?

  But every doctor does this.

• 58:05Speaker 02

  They're supposed to.

• 58:06Tucker Carlson?

  It's required by law.

• 58:07Speaker 02

  It is required.

• 58:09Tucker Carlson?

  So all of a sudden you have every doctor participating in this vaccine program effectively.

• 58:15Speaker 02

  Right.

• 58:16Tucker Carlson?

  And this is the one treatment that doesn't require informed consent? And you're, you're the only one who notices this? I mean, what?

• 58:24Speaker 02

  I'm not the only one that noticed it. There were a lot of people that.

• 58:26Tucker Carlson?

  No, I know, but.

• 58:27Speaker 02

  I, um, but no, I get it. Um, but you know what? This is the problem with vaccines. Okay? You don't get informed consent even with any vaccine. You go in and talk to your doctor about the DPT vaccine. Or you go in and talk to him about the Hep B vaccine. But now, by the way, I talked to you about before Hep B vaccine. Okay? It was given to me when I was, you know, 20 years old or, I'm sorry, 24 years old when I started medical school. Okay? Um, because I was an at-risk person. You know what it's given now? Day one of birth. Okay, day one of birth.

• 58:58Tucker Carlson?

  You were an at-risk person because you were dealing with body fluids as a physician.

• 59:02Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 59:03Tucker Carlson?

  Right, and you could be infected, but why? But now, in the 35 years since, it's required for every child born in the United States.

• 59:11Speaker 02

  Yes, they get one on day one of birth, they get another one a month later, and they get another one six months later. And that's because it's a captive audience. That's the only reason. How many babies are going to be IV drug abusers or go out and have unprotected sex? Or get a blood transfusion? From somebody who's infected? And by the way, some of the pediatricians will tell you, "Well, mom could have had hepatitis B, and therefore you're trying to prevent the baby from getting it." Well, mom was tested for hepatitis during her pregnancy. So you would have known if they had hepatitis and hepatitis B, and so then you would have been able to either treat it or do something about it, or maybe prophylactic.

• 59:54Tucker Carlson?

  Why would pediatricians go along with that?

• 59:58Speaker 02

  They... To put it bluntly? Money.

• 1:00:07Tucker Carlson?

  Why are they allowed to practice medicine with those attitudes? No, I'm serious. Why doesn't the FBI raid their offices? If they're giving infants treatment that the infant doesn't need, that has potentially harmful consequences, and they're doing it for money, then they're criminals.

• 1:00:28Speaker 02

  You're absolutely right. And not only are they doing it for money, but they don't even know what it is that they're doing. You know, the average, there's two hepatitis B vaccines that are in the United States right now, okay, that are in use? Do you know what the long-term, the follow-up study on those two hepatitis B vaccines is? Four days for one, five days for the other.

• 1:00:48Speaker 02

  Four day follow up on one, five day follow up.

• 1:00:50Tucker Carlson?

  Where's the longitudinal study?

• 1:00:52Speaker 02

  They haven't done it.

• 1:00:53Tucker Carlson?

  How can that be?

• 1:00:55Speaker 02

  That's the vaccine industry. In 1986, when they got liability, okay, um, starting in about 19.

• 1:01:02Tucker Carlson?

  Liability protection.

• 1:01:03Speaker 02

  Liability protection, correct. Sorry. Um, when they got liability, full liability protection. Okay.

• 1:01:09Tucker Carlson?

  The one that you don't have and that I don't have, but only Albert.

• 1:01:12Speaker 02

  Nobody else that I know of has this right now.

• 1:01:14Tucker Carlson?

  In the world.

• 1:01:14Speaker 02

  In the world, in any industry. Okay. Nobody. But pharmaceutical companies do on all vaccines.

• 1:01:21Tucker Carlson?

  Cause it's life saving, but you can live without vaccines. You can't live without food.

• 1:01:25Speaker 02

  I've never known of a baby that was born with a vaccine deficiency. Okay.

• 1:01:29Tucker Carlson?

  Right. But I'm just saying like, why don't the food, you know, one of the big ag companies, why doesn't your family farm have full liability protection? Because I mean, talk about a life saving industry.

• 1:01:40Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:01:41Tucker Carlson?

  But they don't have it.

• 1:01:42Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:01:42Tucker Carlson?

  Only the vaccine makers have it.

• 1:01:44Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 1:01:45Tucker Carlson?

  Right. Okay.

• 1:01:46Speaker 02

  And Ronald Reagan, I think he, there's a quote saying that it was probably one of the one, one of the one laws that he signed that he regretted signing.

• 1:01:56Speaker 02

  For what it's worth.

• 1:01:58Tucker Carlson?

  It wasn't a great second term, I would say.

• 1:02:00Speaker 02

  It was not.

• 1:02:01Tucker Carlson?

  No. Um, yeah. Anyway, I don't want to be mean like Ronald Reagan, I guess, but.

• 1:02:05Speaker 02

  No, I do too. I'm not, again.

• 1:02:07Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, but.

• 1:02:07Speaker 02

  Nobody's perfect.

• 1:02:08Tucker Carlson?

  What is that? What is that? A lot of these laws were signed by Republican presidents.

• 1:02:11Speaker 02

  Yes. The prep act was signed by.

• 1:02:14Tucker Carlson?

  It does make you want another party, actually. Um, whatever. But that, that's not the scope of this interview, doctor. Um, okay. So there's no informed consent for any vaccine given is your point?

• 1:02:26Speaker 02

  So correct, because, um, there's never, there are no long-term studies on any vaccines. And, uh, and, and there are actually no placebo controlled studies on any current vaccines that are on the market right now.

• 1:02:41Speaker 02

  Not one current vaccine that is on the children's schedule has ever been studied against a placebo.

• 1:02:52Tucker Carlson?

  But I, I thought that that was a prerequisite.

• 1:02:55Speaker 02

  It is a prerequisite.

• 1:02:56Tucker Carlson?

  For science.

• 1:02:57Speaker 02

  It is a prerequisite for science and it's not been done.

• 1:02:59Tucker Carlson?

  Why?

• 1:03:04Speaker 02

  In a nutshell, they put out something, they will do a short-term study on something, they will proclaim that it's safe and effective. And when they put it on the childhood vaccine schedule, they will then use that fact that it's on the schedule as an ethical, moral foundation, that if you don't, because they've declared it's safe and effective, they will use that as a moral foundation to say you cannot withhold, you cannot safely or ethically withhold it from.

• 1:03:33Tucker Carlson?

  It's not logical. It's safe because it's safe.

• 1:03:36Speaker 02

  It's safe because it's safe and it's effective because it's safe and, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's effective because it's effective. Okay. And you can't keep it from babies and you can't keep it from anybody.

• 1:03:48Tucker Carlson?

  This is why logic needs to be a requirement in school. Right. It's safe because we said it's safe.

• 1:03:55Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 1:03:56Tucker Carlson?

  Therefore, it's so safe, by definition, it's safe because we declared it safe, that

• 1:04:00Speaker 02

  we can't.

• 1:04:01Tucker Carlson?

  Testing for its safety would be a violation of safety.

• 1:04:03Speaker 02

  Well, it would be violation of safety. And it would be, it would be an ethical and moral, you know, threshold that we do not want to cover.

• 1:04:13Tucker Carlson?

  Right. It would be immoral to find out if it's actually safe because the process of finding out would require us to withhold it from certain people.

• 1:04:19Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 1:04:20Tucker Carlson?

  Which is immoral. Which is immoral. Holy shit. That is, okay, so I always say of doctors, and again, there's no, probably no group I dislike more in the world than doctors, just because I think they've. Really misuse their authority, but and fallen so short. But I always say to myself, anyway, having known a lot of doctors, they're all, they're all smart. I mean, it's pretty hard to get into med school. It's hard to go get through residency, all the rest. But now you're convincing me that a lot of them must not be smart because that's just like basic logic right there.

• 1:04:53Speaker 02

  It is basic logic. Unfortunately, they've been brainwashed, okay, into believing that they are safe and effective. And not all of them will go back and look at the science. It takes time, it takes effort, it takes an ability. You, you end up, you know, you kind of get into this.

• 1:05:13Speaker 02

  You get into this routine in your life where, you know, you trust the people that are coming to you and trust them that the studies that they're giving you are appropriate and that they're true and they're not fake and then and the evidence that they're showing you is, you know, is the, is the correct evidence. We already talked about, you know, half of the evidence, at least half of the evidence that is being published. Look, it's, it's a, it's a captured industry. Okay. The people that are making the drugs are the ones that study the drugs and then are the ones that publish the results. Okay. The New England Journal of Medicine, the, um, the Journal of American Medical Association, the British Medical Journal and the Lancet, all those top four journals from 2020 to 2022. They, you, when you go through a peer review process and you submit your journals to them

• 1:05:58Speaker 02

  to be reviewed to get published, those reviewers, okay, were paid 1.06 billion dollars in three years. Okay. By the pharmaceutical industry. And that's a number that's out there that's just recently been published. 1.06 billion dollars was given to those people that reviewed those journal articles for publication.

• 1:06:21Tucker Carlson?

  Those, those are the peers in the peer reviewed study.

• 1:06:23Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 1:06:25Tucker Carlson?

  The peers are all on the take.

• 1:06:27Speaker 02

  They're all on the take. And they were also given research grants and the average research grant, average research grant was $153,000. Okay.

• 1:06:35Tucker Carlson?

  By pharma.

• 1:06:36Speaker 02

  By pharma.

• 1:06:39Speaker 02

  So they, they do the study, they, they designed a study, they pay the study investigators, they collate the data and pay the people that are reviewing it for publication in the journal that they own, essentially they own, because the journals get money on, the majority of their money, they get money is on pre-prints or on reprints. So the pharmaceutical companies will pay the journal X amount of money for a reprint and they give those reprints to then give them out to doctors' offices through their pharmaceutical representatives that go out to the offices, go walk into a, you know, into a pediatrician office and hand

• 1:07:23Speaker 02

  out six pre-prints or, sorry, reprints. They give them these reprints that they've paid for from the pharmaceutical, from the journals. And that's how these journals, the majority of their money comes from these reprints. It's, it's such a closed system, it's just astonishing and it's astounding.

• 1:07:40Tucker Carlson?

  But you're the criminal here, I just want to remind you.

• 1:07:42Speaker 02

  I know, yeah, thank, I don't, please don't tell me that.

• 1:07:45Tucker Carlson?

  Just want to reorient your moral universe a little bit, you doctor are the criminal. So, so the mandates come, you are registered with the state of Utah as a vaccine dispensary or as a physician.

• 1:07:57Speaker 02

  Vaccine provider, yeah.

• 1:07:58Tucker Carlson?

  Provides vaccines, your patients come, you give them, to the extent you can, all the information that you have about these products. There's not a lot, but you tell them what you know and then you give them the option, because it's their body, their choice, about whether or not to take the vax. Where's the, okay, so this is, obviously you're serving your patients, I wish you'd been in my neighborhood at the time. How do you get in trouble for that?

• 1:08:25Speaker 02

  Well, because I didn't do what they wanted me to do.

• 1:08:30Tucker Carlson?

  Who's they?

• 1:08:31Speaker 02

  The government. So. You made a very good, you know, astute comment. I went to the state health department in Utah to become a vaccine provider. But yet the federal government came after me. So in January of 2023, on January 11th, I had 10 or 11 officers show up in my office. They didn't have their guns drawn like they did with Roger Stone.

• 1:08:54Tucker Carlson?

  What kind of officers?

• 1:08:55Speaker 02

  FBI, HHS, it was the OIG's Office of the HHS and DHS, Department of Homeland Security. They love having their task forces. So they established a task force.

• 1:09:07Tucker Carlson?

  Such a buffoons.

• 1:09:09Speaker 02

  So they established a task force sometime in 2022 because they heard about me providing these saline shots and COVID cards without a shot. So they showed up in January, served it in January 23 and they served a search warrant on me and on my office manager for our phones. They confiscated our phones.

• 1:09:29Tucker Carlson?

  Like your cellphone?

• 1:09:30Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 1:09:30Tucker Carlson?

  They took your cellphone?

• 1:09:31Speaker 02

  They took my cellphone.

• 1:09:33Tucker Carlson?

  What if you just say no?

• 1:09:35Speaker 02

  Well, they had a search warrant, so they had a legal.

• 1:09:37Tucker Carlson?

  Well, how about no? This is all fake. They have a search warrant. Okay, you and your fake government, back off.

• 1:09:45Speaker 02

  Well, I tried that and I'll tell you that later.

• 1:09:47Tucker Carlson?

  Okay. I have a search warrant, a safe and effective search warrant.

• 1:09:51Speaker 02

  Well, and then they tried to get me to open up my phone so that they could access it. They actually never did get into my phone because they didn't have the password and Apple.

• 1:09:59Tucker Carlson?

  So what did you say?

• 1:10:01Speaker 02

  I just said no. Said, I don't know my password and I'm not going to give it to you.

• 1:10:04Tucker Carlson?

  What did they say?

• 1:10:06Speaker 02

  They said, well, they actually said, well, it could go a lot easier on you if you give us access. I said, no, no, thanks. It's going to be hard enough.

• 1:10:16Speaker 02

  It's going to be hard enough as it is anyway. But it was funny because I.

• 1:10:20Tucker Carlson?

  I'm sorry, I just want to linger on this point for one second. So you're like a physician practicing medicine and the FBI shows up with a task force at your office? What did you think?

• 1:10:29Speaker 02

  Uh, well, my office manager came back to my office all in a panic, you know, completely, you know, white faced, said the FBI is here. And I said, what are they here for?

• 1:10:39Tucker Carlson?

  You had no warning?

• 1:10:39Speaker 02

  No warning. Um, and she said, well, they're here to serve it. They want your phone and my phone. It's a search warrant. Um, and I go, oh, okay. Um, did they tell you what it's about? And she's like, no. And go around to the front and they're sitting there talking to Sandra, who was, that was Carrie, and they're sitting there talking to Sandra at the front desk. And they were trying to get her to, you know, to spill the beans on stuff. They were just questioning her. And, uh, and Sandra was just, you know, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Just, you know, doing, you know, doing the right thing, really, just not answering any questions.

• 1:11:15Tucker Carlson?

  I like Sandra, just hearing, go Sandra.

• 1:11:20Speaker 02

  And, uh, um, and so anyway, so, um, they served a search warrant. They took my phone. They took Carrie's phone.

• 1:11:28Tucker Carlson?

  And you never gave them the password?

• 1:11:29Speaker 02

  I never gave them the password. Um, there is a-

• 1:11:33Tucker Carlson?

  They just walk off? They could just show up and walk off with your phone?

• 1:11:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:11:38Tucker Carlson?

  People keep a lot of personal stuff on their phones.

• 1:11:41Speaker 02

  A lot of personal-

• 1:11:41Tucker Carlson?

  I do not, but I'm just saying-

• 1:11:43Speaker 02

  You don't anymore.

• 1:11:44Tucker Carlson?

  The average, I don't know. I've had my phone taken, so I know. But, um, yeah, just, just a quick sidebar. If you're involved in any job that's even remotely controversial, do not keep personal stuff on your phone. Sorry. Everyone should know that. Anyway, don't go to any website that you wouldn't want your mom to know about. Just stay clean digitally. That would be my strong advice. So, um, wow, that's totally crazy. So how did you respond? They just come in, they take your phones and then-

• 1:12:17Speaker 02

  So I called my attorney. My attorney showed up. I mean, he's not a criminal attorney. He was just my real estate guy.

• 1:12:24Speaker 02

  He shows up, um, and-

• 1:12:27Tucker Carlson?

  Doing a title search?

• 1:12:29Speaker 02

  Kind of like, hey, uh, what's, what's wrong with this contract here? But, you know, and he was, he was good. He was just said, hey, look, Kirk, don't say anything. Just, you know, and so we gave him my phone. And, and like I said, they never got into mine. They do have a program that can kind of get into phones, but it takes probably three or four years of the operating system in order for them to hack into it. So my phone was still new enough to where they weren't able to get into it even, you know, up to the, you know, up to January or July of this year. So.

• 1:13:06Tucker Carlson?

  Think we need some way to like, blow up your phone the second the FBI start knocking.

• 1:13:11Speaker 02

  Well, there is a way that you can do that now. Not blow it up. You can't, no, you heard about that once in, in, was it Israel, whatever, where they had the, where they actually had something in it where they could actually make the thing catch on fire?

• 1:13:22Tucker Carlson?

  No, but I want that.

• 1:13:25Speaker 02

  So there was something that they did that they put in, in the cell phones. I don't know if it was Apple phones, or if it was Android versions or what, but they had something in there that they had, that they had supposedly put in the phones and then given them to some terrorists or something. And they were able to kind of make the phone blow up. You didn't hear about that?

• 1:13:42Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, there are the, the pagers.

• 1:13:44Speaker 02

  Oh, was it pagers?

• 1:13:45Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, yeah, it was the pagers.

• 1:13:47Speaker 02

  Oh, I thought it was, okay, sorry about that. Yeah.

• 1:13:49Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, so blew the genitals off a thousand people simultaneously. So, no, that, I don't know that there's any like domestically available.

• 1:14:00Speaker 02

  Well, but you can actually erase your phone. You can, if you, if you lose your phone, you can get, if it's an iPhone, then you can actually get on it and you can, and you say, I lost my phone. It's permanently lost. And you can erase, you can erase everything on there.

• 1:14:15Tucker Carlson?

  Did you do so?

• 1:14:15Speaker 02

  I did not, because I didn't want to get in trouble for that, for tampering with evidence, or you know, whatever.

• 1:14:21Tucker Carlson?

  Evidence, okay.

• 1:14:23Speaker 02

  But I did not do it.

• 1:14:24Tucker Carlson?

  So when did you learn what you're going to be charged with?

• 1:14:28Speaker 02

  A week later. I learned about it in a email that I got from a reputation website that published a article by heavy.com that had seen something on the DOJ that the DOJ had announced the indictment. I never got served. I never got paperwork. I never got subpoenaed. Never, no. And I, you know, I actually, none of us did.

• 1:14:56Tucker Carlson?

  So you first heard from some company that like repairs damaged reputations?

• 1:15:00Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:15:02Tucker Carlson?

  From like Harvey Weinstein's publicist, basically.

• 1:15:06Tucker Carlson?

  Now that you're a bad person, you should hire us.

• 1:15:08Speaker 02

  You should hire us to help you.

• 1:15:10Tucker Carlson?

  Are you serious?

• 1:15:10Speaker 02

  Yeah. So it was a heavy.com article that was kind of regurgitating what the DOJ had said in their press release.

• 1:15:15Tucker Carlson?

  But no one had ever sent you the press release or informed you?

• 1:15:18Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:15:20Tucker Carlson?

  What, what country is this?

• 1:15:21Speaker 02

  I think we still live in the United States.

• 1:15:23Tucker Carlson?

  Barely.

• 1:15:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:15:24Tucker Carlson?

  Wow. Wow. Wow.

• 1:15:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:15:27Tucker Carlson?

  By the way, do you have any patients in the office when the FBI barged in?

• 1:15:31Speaker 02

  We, oh, that's a good, on Wednesday. Yeah, we would have had patients in the office.

• 1:15:36Tucker Carlson?

  They must have been surprised.

• 1:15:37Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, you know, as a plastic surgery business, I typically don't have a lot of patients in there all at once. So, you know, it's a pretty private kind of, you know, scenario. We have, you know, one or two patients per hour that kind of come in at, you know, at any given time. Sometimes we're a lot busier, but on a Wednesday, on our consult days, you know, it's typically pretty slow. So I, I don't remember, but there were probably.

• 1:16:00Tucker Carlson?

  I bet they remember.

• 1:16:03Tucker Carlson?

  I bet they'll never forget it. Um, it's hilarious. Sorry. I know not for you. So what were you charged with?

• 1:16:11Speaker 02

  So I was charged with fraud, conspiracy to commit fraud because there was more than one of us and, and counterfeiting.

• 1:16:21Tucker Carlson?

  Counterfeiting?

• 1:16:22Speaker 02

  Counterfeiting because I filled out cards when I didn't, you know, input the COVID vaccine lot number and the date that it was supposedly injected and then signed it.

• 1:16:34Tucker Carlson?

  So this is like, there were a lot of cases like this in the 1850s where like a runaway slave would show up at somebody's house and they'd harbor the slave and they would get charged. Right. And there was a huge theological debate about this at the time, of course, culminating in the John Brown murders. And I mean, there was a lot of debate. It wasn't just John Brown, but about whether it's ethical to violate an immoral law.

• 1:16:58Tucker Carlson?

  Right. And that must be a conversation you had, at least with yourself.

• 1:17:03Speaker 02

  Well, the conversation that I had with myself was I'm taking care of my patient. There were no COVID laws. There were no laws that require me to inject anybody with anything.

• 1:17:19Speaker 02

  And so my discussion with myself was exactly that, said, I'm not breaking any laws. So I don't really understand why they're coming after me. That's one. And then two.

• 1:17:29Tucker Carlson?

  There weren't, there was never a law. You're right.

• 1:17:30Speaker 02

  Never a law.

• 1:17:33Speaker 02

  And two.

• 1:17:35Tucker Carlson?

  So what law did you violate if there was no?

• 1:17:37Speaker 02

  Well, they, they were claiming fraud that they had given me $28,000 worth of product. And I had, and I was told to use it in a certain way, and I didn't use it in the way that they wanted me to.

• 1:17:50Tucker Carlson?

  What'd you do with it, by the way?

• 1:17:52Speaker 02

  Just throw it away.

• 1:17:55Tucker Carlson?

  How, how big is a 28,000 item lot of COVID vax?

• 1:18:02Speaker 02

  It was 2,270 doses is what I had ordered.

• 1:18:07Tucker Carlson?

  Okay. So was that like, could you fit that in a duffel bag?

• 1:18:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, they're small vials. They're about an inch tall by, you know, three quarters of an inch.

• 1:18:17Tucker Carlson?

  And you just tossed them in the garbage?

• 1:18:19Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, we just covered them. As a matter of fact, I mean,

• 1:18:26Speaker 02

  Carrie, my office manager, she would order the product. They would, it would get delivered to the office by UPS or FedEx or whatever. She would sign for it. And then she told me, and I didn't know this at the time, but in order to keep anybody from actually using them, she would take them home immediately. And then from home, she would just throw them away. So we had, there was another employee of mine that supposedly had told the FBI in some thinner interview that.

• 1:19:02Speaker 02

  That she didn't agree with what it was that we were doing and thought that her daughter should have gotten her COVID shot. And so she went in there and drew one up and gave it to her herself because we weren't going to give it to her. And it was a total lie because we never had any of the COVID vaccine in the office.

• 1:19:18Tucker Carlson?

  So how did you, is she the one who ratted you out to the feds?

• 1:19:21Speaker 02

  No, so the way they found out about it is a lady was completely anti COVID and anti vax, told her office, told her staff, told everybody that she worked with her PR, her, her HR department, everybody, that she would never get the vax. She'd rather quit, get fired, whatever. And then one day she shows up with a card from my office. And so then they called the Utah Health Department and said-

• 1:19:45Tucker Carlson?

  Her office did?

• 1:19:46Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:19:46Tucker Carlson?

  What kind of office was it?

• 1:19:48Speaker 02

  I think it was a utility office in California. I'm not positive about that. And, you know, and so they called the Utah Health Department and the Utah Health Department then, I guess, in turn called the FBI. And we found this out during the trial, that the first thing that the Utah Health Department was supposed to do upon hearing that somebody was not using their COVID vaccines properly was they were supposed to shut us down. And if they weren't going to shut us down, then they should have at least done a site review on us.

• 1:20:19Tucker Carlson?

  Or call you and say, hey, is it true that you're not dispensing the COVID vaccine?

• 1:20:22Speaker 02

  But they didn't do anything. They got ahold of the FBI right away. And so then that was, again, part of the whole scheme on their part. So they're claiming I had a scheme. And my scheme was to save, I didn't want to murder or maim my patients. Okay, that was my scheme.

• 1:20:36Tucker Carlson?

  Good scheme.

• 1:20:37Speaker 02

  Their scheme, their scheme was to try to catch me. And then, and that's what they did. They ran a sting operation on me, had two police officers come in and get a COVID card, both of them without a shot. They had to, you know-

• 1:20:51Tucker Carlson?

  Did you consult with them?

• 1:20:52Speaker 02

  Uh, no, I did not. I didn't see, I hardly, none of these patients came in to get a COVID vaccine. They all knew what we were doing. It was a word of mouth thing. I never kept any patient from getting a vaccine if they wanted it. Okay. And I never gave a vaccine to somebody who didn't want it. But everybody that was coming to me was coming to me because I was giving fake cards. They knew it. They wanted it. I wasn't, I didn't have to talk to them. They'd done all their own research. They, you know, if they had any questions, they would ask me.

• 1:21:24Tucker Carlson?

  And I wish I'd known. I had, I had a friend who printed a bunch of fake vax cards. I was proud to carry a fake vax card around the world in the various countries. And

• 1:21:36Speaker 02

  Well, you did an interview with Ed Dout about that.

• 1:21:38Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:38Speaker 02

  In January of 23, January, February of 23, I think it was on your Fox Nation show.

• 1:21:43Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, I felt guilty about, I only, I actually only showed it one time in one country, but I felt guilty. I felt like I should be man enough to be like, I'm not getting that. And, and just, but I

• 1:21:56Speaker 02

  But you can't, you know, you have the whole system that's out against you.

• 1:21:59Tucker Carlson?

  I know. I just felt like it was for doing that. And I felt like a real man would just stand up. I can't imagine my father like having a fake vax card. Buzz off. But I did. Anyway, but I just, God bless everyone who provided fake vax cards. And I just want to thank you to your face for doing that. It's what a wonderful service and a truly ethical thing to do. But you're facing life in prison for doing it. So you get indicted. When do you find out that the penalty is life?

• 1:22:30Speaker 02

  Well, so originally the penalty was total of 15 years max if I'd been convicted on all charges. They were also accusing me of making money. And they, I, I wasn't doing anything. So initially in the summer of 21, I was just giving cards out. And, you know, anybody who wanted them, just giving them out. If they came in with a kid, then I would do a saline shot on their kid. Eventually that kind of changed, the routine changed a little bit, where some people were getting nervous, hey, you're just doing this so freely, you're going to get caught. And somebody's going to say that you did something wrong or whatever. And you, you know, you run the risk. And again, I, I still fell back on, what am I doing wrong? I'm taking care of my patients. This is what they want. They're coming in, they have full informed consent, you know, and everything else.

• 1:23:14Tucker Carlson?

  There's no COVID law.

• 1:23:16Speaker 02

  And there's no COVID law. Right. But eventually we, we got convinced that, you know, look, we got to start screening people. And so that's where Chris comes in, my other co-defendant.

• 1:23:28Speaker 02

  And so she started screening people. And in addition to that, we had people that were saying, hey, you know, Kirk or Dr. Moore, you know, you're not taking any payment on this. What can we do to help, you know, help you? And I said, well, look, there's this organization that is trying to change the laws here in the state of Utah to prevent this from ever happening again. And I'd been to their meetings and I was kind of doing what I could to help. I was testifying in Congress or in our state, you know, state house and senate committee hearings to try to get laws passed to take away the right of our health department and our county council to force mandates indefinitely on anybody.

• 1:24:12Speaker 02

  And so we had passed some laws. And so I knew what this organization was doing. And so I said, look, if you have, if you want to do something, please donate to this organization. And they said, well, how much? I said, well, typically people are charging their insurance companies about 50 bucks for a shot. So just donate $50 to this organization. And I would have them put a little orange, I don't know where I came up with an orange. I had them put an orange in their Zelle or Venmo payment or whatever, so that, you know, that so that HIA, who was the organization, would know what it was. And, and so we did that. And the government claimed that I did that for everybody.

• 1:24:51Speaker 02

  So all 1,937 patients that got listed to the Utah State Information and Immunization Information System, USIS, were claiming that those were people that had come to my office that we had put their name on the list and said that they got a COVID shot. So they were saying that out of that, at $50 apiece, it's like $96,000, plus the 28 grand that they gave me in product was $128,000 worth of $124,000.

• 1:25:15Tucker Carlson?

  That money you said it went to charity, it didn't go to you.

• 1:25:18Speaker 02

  Correct. I didn't get a dime. Okay. But they were trying to claim that it, that I was making money somehow. Okay. And they did. And they, you know, and they did that. But then they had to take that charge away. Okay. So here's a funny story. The second police officer that came in to do this sting operation on me to confirm what had happened to his quote unquote girlfriend, okay. He got busted for selling bath salts. So he was an FBI agent that was stealing bath salts from a confiscated, you know, raid and then taking some of it and then turning around and selling it.

• 1:25:50Tucker Carlson?

  No way. He's a drug dealer.

• 1:25:52Speaker 02

  He's a drug dealer. Okay. So they had.

• 1:25:55Tucker Carlson?

  He was an FBI agent?

• 1:25:56Speaker 02

  He's an FBI agent. Yeah.

• 1:25:59Tucker Carlson?

  I'm not surprised. Actually, I mean, you're an FBI. I couldn't have a lower opinion of FBI agents in general, not all, but most. But if they tell you, okay, we're going to do a sting operation on a physician who's decided as a practicing medical doctor that he doesn't want to give the COVID vaccine, your job is to bust him. If you're going along with that, it's voluntary. You don't have to do it if you don't want. You're a low person. Like, you're a disgusting person. Like, check yourself. What am I? Is this why I got into the FBI? To bust doctors for not prescribing an untested vaccine?

• 1:26:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, they don't look at it that way. They

• 1:26:34Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, I know they don't.

• 1:26:35Speaker 02

  They're, I mean, the whole government scenario, everything that they're, again, this is not about justice. Okay, it's not about the truth. Okay, it's just about winning. And it's about, and when it came to me, in my case, it came to be about proving a point. Okay, they wanted to prove that to other doctors, this is what happens to you. Okay, when you mess with us, when you fuck with us and everything else, this is what's going to happen to you. It didn't matter whether it was the right thing.

• 1:27:05Tucker Carlson?

  It's display of power.

• 1:27:06Speaker 02

  It didn't matter. It didn't matter that I had not hurt any patient. It didn't matter that I was, that I'm a plastic surgeon doing house calls and I'm saving people's lives. Okay, and then I literally take people out of the hospital, get them off the remdesivir that they're in, give them high dose steroids, give them ivermectin and everything else, and now they're still alive and not six feet under. Okay, and I did that on two or three occasions. And I didn't charge a dime to anybody for doing this. That doesn't matter to them. Okay, it, what mattered to them was, you didn't do what we told you to do, and therefore, we are going to hold your feet to the fire, and we are going to prove, and we're going to make it hurt so much to you, and we're going to show the world that

• 1:27:49Speaker 02

  if they ever were to try this, that this is what's going to happen.

• 1:27:52Tucker Carlson?

  It's sadomasochism. They're, they're in the dominant position. They've got the whip hand, and they want you to know it.

• 1:27:56Speaker 02

  And they ruin you financially. They spend all this money. They, they, they make you spend. I had to hire an attorney for my business. Okay, for my business. Does my business speak? Okay, do they get up? Can you, can I take my business and put my business on the stand and ask them why my business did this? Okay, but no, I had to hire an attorney and spend a buttload of frickin' money, okay, to pay my attorney to just sit there in trial.

• 1:28:27Speaker 02

  Okay, that's our system.

• 1:28:28Tucker Carlson?

  What do you think it cost you?

• 1:28:31Speaker 02

  Um, if I add up the bills, it was somewhere between seven and eight hundred grand.

• 1:28:38Speaker 02

  Which is not as expensive as what some other cases are, but I lost a lot of money out of my business too. I mean, just think about the time and effort and the lack of, you know, the loss of, um, focus. I mean, I, I used to just work, right? I mean, I just, I'd go to the office, I'd take care of my patients. I'd advertise, I'd market, I would, you know, be there for them and do everything. I didn't have anything else. I didn't have all this extraneous stuff that I'm thinking about. But now I'm, the only thing I'm thinking about is how do I keep myself out of jail? How do I provide for my family?

• 1:29:09Tucker Carlson?

  Jail?

• 1:29:10Speaker 02

  So, yeah. Oh, so you asked me before, so, and we got off subject. So when that officer got caught, all the data and evidence and everything that they had in the, in original indictment had to be removed. So what they did was-

• 1:29:24Tucker Carlson?

  Turns out the FBI agent was a drug dealer.

• 1:29:26Speaker 02

  Yes, the FBI agent was a drug dealer. So they had to take all that out. But then what they did was, um, is they added another charge of destruction of government property and evidence tampering, which added another 20 years to my sentence.

• 1:29:40Tucker Carlson?

  20 years?

• 1:29:41Speaker 02

  20 years, evidence tampering.

• 1:29:43Tucker Carlson?

  What was the government property that you destroyed?

• 1:29:45Speaker 02

  The vaccine.

• 1:29:48Speaker 02

  They claimed that even though they gave me a product, so the ultimate Indian givers, okay? They gave me a product and that it was sitting in my freezer that they had given to me. And that until I injected it into a patient's arm, that they own that product. Because they gave it to me, because they paid for it and they gave it to me as the custodian, I guess.

• 1:30:11Tucker Carlson?

  They're gonna put you in prison for 20 years for that?

• 1:30:14Speaker 02

  Uh, they were gonna put me in jail for, yeah, if I destroyed that property, correct. They were gonna, that was gonna additional 20 years of, you know, of, of-

• 1:30:21Tucker Carlson?

  What kind of prosecutor, and you're in your late 50s by this point?

• 1:30:25Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah, I turned 60 this year, right.

• 1:30:28Tucker Carlson?

  And what was the total sentence you were facing?

• 1:30:30Speaker 02

  35 years.

• 1:30:32Tucker Carlson?

  So that puts you in prison until 95, till you're dead.

• 1:30:35Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:30:35Tucker Carlson?

  Right. So what kind of, so at some point, a prosecutor had to decide on what the maximum penalty would be. That's a judgment called subjective.

• 1:30:45Speaker 02

  Right. Well, no, the maximum penalty is the judge. So if I'd have been sentenced, then, you know.

• 1:30:52Tucker Carlson?

  Of cour-, of course, the judge determines that, but the prosecutor decides which charges he's gonna bring.

• 1:30:58Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:30:58Tucker Carlson?

  And he knows what penalty is attached to those charges.

• 1:31:01Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 1:31:02Tucker Carlson?

  So.

• 1:31:03Speaker 02

  They hated me.

• 1:31:04Tucker Carlson?

  But like.

• 1:31:05Speaker 02

  They looked at me with such disdain.

• 1:31:06Tucker Carlson?

  Please name these prosecutors and tell, tell us who they were.

• 1:31:09Speaker 02

  So Todd Bowden.

• 1:31:11Tucker Carlson?

  Todd Bowden?

• 1:31:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, B O U T O N.

• 1:31:13Tucker Carlson?

  B O U T O N. Who is Todd Bowden?

• 1:31:15Speaker 02

  So Todd Bowden came from California in the prosecutor's office in California. He'd only been in, he's only been in Utah. Well, at the time that he had me under indictment, he'd only been there about a year, I think.

• 1:31:26Tucker Carlson?

  He's a federal prosecutor?

• 1:31:27Speaker 02

  He's a federal prosecutor.

• 1:31:28Tucker Carlson?

  So he was in the US Attorney's Office?

• 1:31:30Speaker 02

  US Attorney's Office in Salt Lake City, yes.

• 1:31:33Tucker Carlson?

  Todd Bowden. How old is Todd Bowden-ish?

• 1:31:36Speaker 02

  Um, 50, 48.

• 1:31:40Tucker Carlson?

  And Todd Bowden was, do you think, one of the prime movers behind this?

• 1:31:45Speaker 02

  He was the lead prosecutor on this case.

• 1:31:46Tucker Carlson?

  Lead prosecutor. Okay.

• 1:31:48Speaker 02

  So I don't know if it got assigned to him, or if he chose it, or if he, but he hated me. I mean, he looked at me with such disdain.

• 1:31:54Tucker Carlson?

  Why?

• 1:31:54Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 1:31:56Tucker Carlson?

  Todd Bowden, does he still work at the Department of Justice?

• 1:31:59Speaker 02

  He does.

• 1:32:00Tucker Carlson?

  How can Todd Bowden still have a job at the DOJ?

• 1:32:05Speaker 02

  Um.

• 1:32:07Tucker Carlson?

  I would think draining the swamp would require firing Todd Bowden day one, but that's just my view. Okay. And I'm, again, stepping on your story. So, okay, there was Todd Bowden was lead prosecutor. Who else?

• 1:32:17Speaker 02

  So Jacob Strain was his boss, or.

• 1:32:20Tucker Carlson?

  Jacob Strain?

• 1:32:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, so J A C O B, and then S T R A I N.

• 1:32:25Tucker Carlson?

  Uh huh.

• 1:32:26Speaker 02

  Um, and he was, he's the senior prosecutor in that, but he was taking a backseat to Todd Bowden. Todd Bowden was leading the, you know, leading the charge. And Jacob Strain has been in that office in Salt Lake for a long time.

• 1:32:38Tucker Carlson?

  Is he still there?

• 1:32:39Speaker 02

  Uh, he's still there as well. Uh, yes, he's still there. How? Um, this was just one of many cases that they had. Of this, of this kind? Well, they, I don't know if you heard about that one case that they had where they, there were people that were selling COVID cards on eBay. There was a guy in Utah. Of course, I. There was a guy in Utah and a guy in New York. And between the two of them, they sold 140,000 cards on eBay that they had just printed. They'd gone to Kinko's. I don't know if Kinko's still exists, but my point, you know, they went to a printing company where they printed them at home, made COVID cards, stamped them, and, and were selling them for 10 bucks a piece. These guys made 1.4 million dollars. God bless them.

• 1:33:19Speaker 02

  Um, and they got convicted. They got a year in jail and a $40,000 fine. That was their conviction. They took a plea deal. Okay? Did they actually do the time? Uh, I don't know. I think so. Okay? Damn. But a year in jail and $40,000 fine. And then the same prosecutor, so Todd Voughton, same guy, okay, took those guys and he got that plea deal. And he's taking me to trial and trying to put me in jail for 35 years. And you're a physician? And I made no money. Okay? I made no money. I didn't charge anybody anything. I made no money. I asked people to donate to an organization that was helping pass laws in the state of Utah that I, you know, that, that we supported as an organization and everything else. Um, and

• 1:34:03Speaker 02

  yet he, you know, they never offered me a plea, ever. I would not have taken one if they had they, but I, but they never even came. They give pleas to child molesters all the time. Yes. All the time. All the time.

• 1:34:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, let's cut it down to a decent exposure and we'll, we're fine. Um, had you ever been in trouble with the law? So I had a, um, I had a case four or five years ago where I got accused of insurance fraud, um, of filing a false insurance claim. Um, and that I had three of my, my employees turn me in, even though it wasn't true. Um, but I had to take a plea deal on that because I had three people against me for, you know, for me, for one. So I took a misdemeanor, you know, charge and. Did you lose your medical license? I had it suspended for, well, on paper suspended for two years, but they, but it was, um,

• 1:34:59Speaker 02

  But so they suspended, but gave it back to me under probation. And so I did an 18 month probation, never got in trouble. I've never been in trouble prior to that at all. So I got accused of, I had a trailer that was stolen from my office parking lot. And the trailer had a whole bunch of stuff in it, some of which I knew, some of which I didn't. I had just moved into my office and we're moving stuff in, moving stuff out. I came from an office that was 5,800 square feet to an office that was just under four. So we had a lot of stuff that just didn't fit. And so I had my sister out who's kind of helping with interior design. And so we're moving stuff in and out. And I didn't know what was in the trailer, what was not and everything else.

• 1:35:40Speaker 02

  And so I put a lot of things on the insurance claim and some of which I took off later, some of which I didn't. But my, my staff that I had fired accused me of, you know, fraudulently making claims on my insurance. And I didn't, if I did, it was a mistake because I didn't know, you know, I didn't really, I truly didn't know what was on there. I do know that there were at least, you know, there was a couple of boxes of medical charts on there. And there was a whole bunch of medical supplies and, you know, and those kinds of things. So, but.

• 1:36:13Tucker Carlson?

  So it wasn't an insurance claim related to your medical practice?

• 1:36:16Speaker 02

  No, no, it had nothing to do with that.

• 1:36:18Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:36:22Tucker Carlson?

  So what happened next? You're facing life in prison for this. They, they do not offer you a plea deal. You wouldn't have taken it anyway, you said. But how long did this drag out and how did it end?

• 1:36:33Speaker 02

  So we, I went to jail twice.

• 1:36:38Tucker Carlson?

  You went to jail?

• 1:36:39Speaker 02

  I went to jail twice.

• 1:36:40Tucker Carlson?

  Why?

• 1:36:41Speaker 02

  Remember at the beginning when you said, uh, how does?

• 1:36:43Tucker Carlson?

  Did you get a tattoo? Join a gang?

• 1:36:46Speaker 02

  No tattoos, no gang. But remember when you said, why did you give them your phone? Cause the government, you're not really, they don't, you know, it's, it's your government. Well, I challenged the jurisdiction of my government and they didn't like that challenge. So they threw me in jail.

• 1:37:00Tucker Carlson?

  They threw you in jail, like actual jail?

• 1:37:02Speaker 02

  Yep, 12 days.

• 1:37:04Tucker Carlson?

  Come on now.

• 1:37:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:37:07Tucker Carlson?

  What jail?

• 1:37:08Speaker 02

  Uh, I was at the Logan County Jail, Logan, uh, in the sheriff's department, whatever.

• 1:37:14Tucker Carlson?

  Were you the only surgeon in the, in the cell block?

• 1:37:16Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. I think it was the only, I was the only white collar there, only white collar guy there at all. Everybody else was drug addicts and there were some murderers and rapists.

• 1:37:24Tucker Carlson?

  You spent 12 days in jail?

• 1:37:27Speaker 02

  I spent 12 days in jail that time, yes.

• 1:37:29Tucker Carlson?

  Wh- why?

• 1:37:31Speaker 02

  Um, well, because I challenged their jurisdiction. I filed a motion that said that they don't have jurisdiction over me.

• 1:37:38Speaker 02

  And, you know, trying to go, some people claim it's like the sovereign citizen or, uh, state national route or, you know, whatever. Basically, I was just saying, you know, you guys are overstepping your bounds here.

• 1:37:50Tucker Carlson?

  You don't have the authority to do this.

• 1:37:51Speaker 02

  And you don't have the authority to do this. And they didn't like that. So the judge says, I don't like you and I don't like what it is that you're doing. And he threw me in jail.

• 1:37:59Tucker Carlson?

  Who's the judge?

• 1:38:00Speaker 02

  Uh, Judge Bennett.

• 1:38:04Speaker 02

  Jared, Jared Bennett?

• 1:38:06Tucker Carlson?

  That is totally bonkers. What does your family say?

• 1:38:11Speaker 02

  Well, um, they were like, Dad, what can you do to get out of jail? So I, um, in order to do that, I had to fire my attorneys and everything else and go pro se, uh, which, you know, it means defending yourself. And then, um, and so then I had to hire an attorney to then file a motion to say that I had, I reneg on what it was that I said before. I don't believe in that. Um, it was, you know, it was a mistake on my part. Uh, so please let me out of jail so I can take care of my family. And so they did. They put me on an ankle monitor for 90 days.

• 1:38:44Tucker Carlson?

  What?

• 1:38:46Speaker 02

  And, uh, I was on house arrest and I could go from my office to-

• 1:38:51Tucker Carlson?

  Is this true?

• 1:38:53Speaker 02

  This is true. It's, it's true. Absolutely. All of it is. I have pictures. I was even accused of being a, um, of being a consider, of continuing my conspiracy theory because I, I, I was told that I said that my ankle monitor probably had a microphone and transmitter in it and I was covering it with a towel so people couldn't listen to it.

• 1:39:16Tucker Carlson?

  Well, your iPhone definitely does. So like, why is it crazy to think your ankle monitor does?

• 1:39:21Speaker 02

  I don't think I said that, but even if I did, I mean, the point is-

• 1:39:23Tucker Carlson?

  Well, that's true. That's factually true.

• 1:39:25Speaker 02

  They brought that up in court to try to keep me in jail.

• 1:39:28Tucker Carlson?

  Cause you're not allowed to have conspiracy theories. You're allowed to think whatever the fuck you want in this country, by the way, I'll remind you.

• 1:39:34Speaker 02

  Not anymore.

• 1:39:36Tucker Carlson?

  So did you ever, because I'm a few years younger than you, but basically the same generation and went to similar high schools in the similar region. So I get, I know what your world, I mean, I know the world that you grew up in. Um, did you ever think like, I'm just not going to participate. I'm not going to do this. Like I'm armed and come and, come and get me bitch.

• 1:40:00Speaker 02

  Well, by this time, oh no, actually by that, yeah. Uh, uh, did I think about it?

• 1:40:05Tucker Carlson?

  Well, you could see how you could become Randy Weaver really quick.

• 1:40:07Speaker 02

  Yes. I, did I think about that? The absolute question, the absolute thing is yes.

• 1:40:11Tucker Carlson?

  Of, of course.

• 1:40:12Speaker 02

  So I'm, I'm, I'm literally thinking, okay, how do I board up my windows?

• 1:40:16Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:17Speaker 02

  Okay. How do I put little holes in it? You know?

• 1:40:19Tucker Carlson?

  Hundred percent.

• 1:40:21Speaker 02

  You're absolutely right that I think about it.

• 1:40:23Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah. I'm not suggesting that anyone do that. Like they murdered Randy Weaver's wife and child and dog. Like you don't win going Branch Davidian, but ever. However, I certainly understand the impulse.

• 1:40:37Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:40:37Tucker Carlson?

  Especially if you grew up in a free country. You're like, well, you can't do this.

• 1:40:41Speaker 02

  All right.

• 1:40:42Tucker Carlson?

  What was, what was 12 days in jail like?

• 1:40:45Speaker 02

  Well, the first four days I was in, uh, so they have a rule when you get into jail at Logan, uh, the Logan County jail there that you have to do 48 hours. Um, your first 48 hours is in solitary confinement because they want to make sure that you're not tweaking on drugs and that you're not going to freak out. And so before you go to your, you know, regular cell block that.

• 1:41:06Tucker Carlson?

  Tweaking on drugs? You're a surgeon. Like what the?

• 1:41:11Speaker 02

  I get, I get, I didn't get any special treatment there either one way or the other. Okay. Um, but the rule also said that it's 48 hours. They did this to me on the Friday afternoon before Memorial Day weekend. So my 48 hours didn't start clicking until Tuesday morning at seven o'clock. So I was in solitary confinement, Friday night, Saturday night, Sunday night and Monday night. Okay. I got out of my cell for one hour a day. Um, and because I was in this, you know, this, this whatever state, I can't remember what they called it, what the state, you know, what, what they do for that, that solitary confinement state for that 48 hours, but it doesn't start till then. So then they gave me a benefit is that on Tuesday afternoon at like four o'clock, they said, okay, well, you know,

• 1:41:54Speaker 02

  we'll move you to your cell block. And so then they moved me from there. To kind of award a pod with a bunch of bunk beds and 26 or 27 other, you know, cellmates in there, which was obviously a lot better because you can have some communication and talk to people and I had phone access and, you know, everything else, but. What were those days in solitary like?

• 1:42:20Speaker 02

  Boring.

• 1:42:24Speaker 02

  You know, you got out of, they would bring you out of your cell to eat literally for 20 minutes and then they can send you back in. And then they would combine your lunch or your dinner on alternating days with your one hour of time where you could just kind of walk around in the cell block. How was the food? Books.

• 1:42:44Speaker 02

  Food was, I don't know, jail food. Just

• 1:42:51Speaker 02

  plastic trays with a plastic fork. That, you know, if you put too much on your plastic fork, it would collapse because it couldn't be stiff enough for you to use it as a weapon. You know, it was just

• 1:43:04Speaker 02

  green beans, corn,

• 1:43:07Speaker 02

  hot dogs.

• 1:43:11Speaker 02

  I think there were a couple of times where we had a burger.

• 1:43:15Speaker 02

  But it was. So that was my first time in jail. My second time in jail was I got the marshal service showed up. So we had. So I got my ankle monitor off at the end of the summer of 2022. Okay.

• 1:43:32Speaker 02

  No, sorry. Ankle monitor. This is so crazy. I just want to like, what about the politicians in your state that supposedly? Nobody said a fucking word. Nobody said a word at that time.

• 1:43:47Speaker 02

  It's the most shameful period in American history by far. And so I. By the way, if those people ever take power again, this will be every day. Those people are really dangerous. Yeah.

• 1:44:01Speaker 02

  Um, so I got my ankle monitor off like end of August, beginning of September of 2023. So now I'm kind of like, last thing I want to do is kind of rock the boat and do anything. Ankle monitor, do you have to shower with it and keep it on? It's on, it's just, they strap this thing on and if you cut it off, it sends like some sort of, you know, it's got a really loud beep and siren or something in it. So it's like a dog collar, like you're an animal. Right, right. They put a tag in your ear? Not, no, that, not yet. They didn't, they didn't get to that point yet.

• 1:44:36Speaker 02

  So

• 1:44:38Speaker 02

  following that, um, we had a motion to, we filed a motion to dismiss my case based upon the Chevron doctrine and how the CDC was overstepping their bounds. The judge denied that. No legislative authority. They have no legislative authority, none. There's no law. There's no law, there's no legislative authority. By the Pharisees, yeah. But the judge didn't grant our motion to dismiss. They had a motion simultaneously to preclude me from using a necessity defense. And basically a necessity defense is that what the treatment is that I was doing was less dangerous than the treatment that was the alternative. Correct. And which I truly believed was true. Um, the judge. Why else would you do it?

• 1:45:22Speaker 02

  The judge granted them that motion, which then meant that I couldn't bring in any patients that came to me and talk them about the reasons why. Wait, they can tell you what defense you can offer? That's another really good question, Tucker. How do they get to decide what your defense is? What is going on? Yeah. I mean, that's exactly my, I had almost the same exact, you know, motion was emotion, which was I laughed and giggled and was like, I, I, I thought I lived in the United States and I'm allowed to present any defense that I want to. But no, in this case, a necessity defense was not permitted.

• 1:46:08Speaker 02

  So that means I couldn't bring any vaccine injured patients in to talk about. Wait, who decides? The judge decides? The judge decided this. So the, so I had a magistrate judge and he was, that was Judge Bennett who threw me in jail the first time. Okay, and then we had this motion to dismiss. So any dispositive motions go to your actual district judge. Okay, so the district judge that heard my case is, you know, is different than the magistrate judge. And then his name is Howard Nielsen. And so Howard, Dr. or Judge Nielsen heard my motion to dismiss and heard their motion for necessity.

• 1:46:50Speaker 02

  He denied my motion to dismiss and he upheld their motion for the necessity defense. So that means I could not bring in any patients that wanted the treatment that they got and have them tell their story, why they came to me. I could not present any data or evidence and in support of the reasons why I treated people the way I did. I couldn't bring in any experts to also support all that. So I couldn't bring in the Peter McCullas and the Mary Tally Bodens and, you know, Pierre Corey's and anybody else in there to help me with my case and, you know, and, you know, a real good friend of mine,

• 1:47:25Speaker 02

  Jim Thorpe, wouldn't, you know, none of these people, I couldn't bring anybody in as an expert witness on my behalf. And then I couldn't bring in any patients that had been vaccine injured. So all the people that I know that were vaccine injured to kind of help prove my case. So I was precluded from doing any of that. So that was on the 19th of October.

• 1:47:43Tucker Carlson?

  So they just, just to restate, they charge you with these crimes. They threaten you with life in prison. They throw you in jail for 12 days to start. And then they decide what your defense can be.

• 1:47:57Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 1:47:59Speaker 02

  That's our system now, right? So the day before we had trial, sorry, the day before we had the hearing, so on October 18th, I sent a text message to two of my co-defendants because I knew that they were struggling with get their attorneys, they weren't, you know, communication wasn't the greatest and they didn't know about the hearing. And so I texted him and said, hey, we have a hearing tomorrow. It's our motion to dismiss their motion for the necessity defense. I think you should be there with your attorneys. Ra ra, let's go, our case can go away, you know, whatever. Okay, that's it. All right.

• 1:48:36Speaker 02

  We go to the hearing. They're, they are at the hearing. I told you, you know, we lost both motions essentially.

• 1:48:44Speaker 02

  The day after Donald Trump was elected, I had two marshals show up in my office and perp walked me out of my office for communicating with my co-defendants about the case. How did they know? One of the people that I was communicating with turned me in. So my ex-office manager gave them a copy of the text messages. Why did she do that?

• 1:49:05Speaker 02

  Because she wanted out of the case. So she took a plea deal.

• 1:49:11Speaker 02

  And she took a plea deal for- Well, she's gonna have to live with that. She's gonna have to live with that.

• 1:49:18Speaker 02

  She's ultimately not a very nice person. And so I don't know that it's really gonna give her that much heartache. I hope it does. So what happened? The US Marshals show up? So the US Marshals show up, put me in chains, ankle chains. Actually? Actually, ankle chains and cuffs behind my back with chains connected between my ankles and feet because I was such a flight risk. Took me to jail and I spent 30,

• 1:49:46Speaker 02

  I spent 22 days in jail that time.

• 1:49:50Speaker 02

  Are you serious? Same jail? No, different jail this time. So I had to learn a whole new routine. What was your family saying at this point? Well,

• 1:50:03Speaker 02

  what are they saying? You know, they're, they're struggling, obviously. It's, you know, I'm the breadwinner in the family, you know, I'm, you know, I'm not making any money. And, you know, my fiance now is kind of trying to keep things afloat. My parents are doing whatever they can to kind of communicate with my attorneys and do anything and all. And you're like 59 years old at this point? 59 years old. And, you know, like I said, I'm barely surviving in my practice anyway. And with a federal indictment hanging over you, nobody wants to really have a lot to do with you. So it's, you know, it's, it's, it was hard. It's really hard.

• 1:50:49Speaker 02

  Had to sell, I owned a house, a summer house with a really good friend of mine, and had to sell out my partnership on it that I'd owned for 17 years. And it was, you know, it was a getaway for us. We loved it. It was a place up in Bear Lake. And, you know, I had to sell out from that, but I, you know, the money that I got from that went, it was all gone in like three weeks.

• 1:51:14Tucker Carlson?

  To lawyers.

• 1:51:15Speaker 02

  All to lawyers or to pay off my business expenses. I mean, I, you know, I was in jail for, you know, 22 days. I didn't get any income, none. I'm not able to advertise, and so I can't, you know, I, you know, all my money, all my discretionary money was going towards my attorneys or fees or this or, you know, running my business or, you know, or anything.

• 1:51:36Speaker 02

  And, you know, so it was, you know, it was, those 22 days were really hard. I got out the, so here's more, here's more of an example of them coming after me, okay? I told you that in May of 2023, I filed that motion kind of as a state, national sovereign guy, you know, government doesn't have jurisdiction over me. I filed the same motion as, as, as Carrie did. The exact same motion. We just changed the name on the motion. Both of us filed it. They put me in jail for 12 days. They let her go home.

• 1:52:12Tucker Carlson?

  Carrie would be the woman who ratted you out.

• 1:52:14Speaker 02

  Yes. Okay. And then later, when I went to jail the second time, and it was Carrie and Chris and myself in this three-way text, okay? And Carrie was the one that turned it in, so obviously she's not going to go to jail, but they arrested Chris too, okay? And two days later, we had a hearing in terms of the disposition. Are we going to let them go again? Or, you know, or are we going to keep them in jail? Well, they let her go and they kept me in jail for the exact same violation. But because I'd had that previous violation, okay? I'm now considered a flight risk and a danger to the community, and so now I need to-

• 1:52:49Tucker Carlson?

  A danger to the community?

• 1:52:51Speaker 02

  A danger to the community. The prosecutor said it in the hearing.

• 1:52:54Tucker Carlson?

  Which prosecutor?

• 1:52:55Speaker 02

  Todd Bowden.

• 1:52:57Tucker Carlson?

  Todd Bowden, who is still-

• 1:53:00Tucker Carlson?

  I'm really gonna try to make a note to myself to just say his name as often as I can until he loses his job and doesn't get hired at a big white shoe law firm and rewarded for this Todd Bowden. Okay.

• 1:53:12Speaker 02

  Yeah. So I was a danger to the community and I'm a flight risk in spite of the fact that, you know, I've got no property anywhere else. The only property I have is in my town. I have my kids going to school there, you know, my, my mom lives with me part of the time, you know, everything else. There's no, you know, a flight risk for what?

• 1:53:31Tucker Carlson?

  Also, who cares?

• 1:53:31Speaker 02

  I don't have my passport.

• 1:53:32Tucker Carlson?

  Who cares? You didn't do anything wrong. We've got 50 million illegals in the country. Drug cartels control huge parts of the southwestern United States. Like, this is so crazy. I can't even believe this is real.

• 1:53:44Speaker 02

  Right. And I, look, and I'm not the only one.

• 1:53:47Tucker Carlson?

  If you fled the United States, the only loser would be the United States. We need people like, no, I'm, I'm serious. Like, I, flight risk?

• 1:53:58Speaker 02

  Flight risk and a danger to the community. What am I gonna do to the community, right?

• 1:54:01Tucker Carlson?

  So you think Todd Bowden still works at the US Attorney's Office?

• 1:54:03Speaker 02

  I do. As far as I know. I mean, I, you know, but yes.

• 1:54:09Tucker Carlson?

  I do think your senators should know that. I think, I think if Senator Lee knew that.

• 1:54:14Speaker 02

  Well, he does know that. He was at my, so he was at my meeting that I had with, you know, Attorney General Bondi, you know, a few weeks ago. So he knows.

• 1:54:24Tucker Carlson?

  Okay. Well, I think they should fire Todd Bowden immediately because this is such an abuse of power, just crushing a man. No one comes to your aid.

• 1:54:32Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:54:33Tucker Carlson?

  What was the 22 days in jail like?

• 1:54:36Speaker 02

  So this time was actually a little bit harder. The last time I told you, remember where I had like four days in solitary and then I had the other eight days or so kind of in a ward where you're out and you can talk to people. This time I was in, I was in the Salt Lake County Jail system, same, same sheriff's department, but they just had different rules and all federal, all federal inmates in that jail are, can never get below medium security.

• 1:55:06Speaker 02

  Medium security is four hours a day out of your cell.

• 1:55:12Speaker 02

  And the rest is in your cell.

• 1:55:15Speaker 02

  And you can't go outside. You, you know, you get books delivered once a month. You get commissary that, you know, that you can, that you can order online or, you know, whatever. You have a tablet that you have access to during your four hours of out time. But they had some sort of an electric, electric problem in the grid with control of the cells, doors and everything else that they had cut our time down to two hours a day. So I was in my cell 22 out of 24 hours for those full 22 days. In a cell with like? In a cell, an eight by 10 cell, seven by 10 cell. Yeah. 22 out of 24 hours. What did that do to you?

• 1:56:04Speaker 02

  Two things, I think.

• 1:56:07Speaker 02

  The first thing that it did to me is it

• 1:56:12Speaker 02

  built up my resilience and I wasn't gonna let them mess with me anymore. Good. You know, that, that it just didn't matter what they're gonna do to me, then

• 1:56:21Speaker 02

  I'm gonna fight back. And then the second thing that it did is it made me realize how much of a scam the fucking jail system is. Because my first cellmate in there was an illegal. Nice kid, didn't speak much English. He was only in my cell for 24 hours. But that poor guy

• 1:56:43Speaker 02

  had supposedly had two DUIs that he didn't even know about. They didn't ever pulled him over for driving.

• 1:56:50Speaker 02

  They just issued a DUI warrant out for him. He didn't even know that those DUI warrants were out for him. The third time he did get pulled over for DUI. And for some reason, they felt like he was a maximum security guy. They put him in maximum security where he was in lockdown for two and a half months. Okay, a guy who's 23 years old, who made some mistakes driving a car once, don't even know about his first two cases. They're not even cases that they, that he never got pulled over. They just, somebody said, hey, he's been drinking and that's the car that he was driving. But they put him, how is that guy a max security risk? Okay.

• 1:57:31Speaker 02

  It's a scam. These jails go around and all they do, it's a per capita count.

• 1:57:36Tucker Carlson?

  Of course.

• 1:57:37Speaker 02

  And, and morning and night, they want to know how many people are in each ward and in each, you know, medium, moderate, I mean, you know, minimal security, medium security and high security or max security, whatever. And they get more money. That's all it is. It's just a money scam and a money grubbing operation. That's all it is. The day that I got released, there were 17 people in my time block. And I think, I want to say they were about two hour time blocks for get released because they get, they let you get out of your jail. They take you to this desk. You sign your forms. You get your clothes. You get the stuff that they arrested you with and all of that stuff. It takes about two hours to process a certain number of people. There were 17 of us total, okay, in that two hour

• 1:58:17Speaker 02

  time block. 13 out of 17 of those had nowhere to go. Nowhere. No family, no friends, nothing. They got a bus pass to take them down to wherever it is they want to. A single one, like a one-way bus pass. Where do you think those guys are going to go? Right back to where they were before, you know, right back to what it was. And in 48 hours, they're going to be right back where they are. There was no attempt at all to help these people to do anything. Nothing. Okay. And that's why I'm saying you just realize that it's just such a scam for these people. Just that they want the recidivism and they, if the recidivism rate drops below 90%, then they're hurting. So they want to do whatever it is that they can to kind of make sure that those people.

• 1:58:59Tucker Carlson?

  This country's too big. You can't treat people as human beings. The government's too big. It's all unsustainable. It's like, the scale is just not. You either have to go full 1984 and just facial recognition to go to the bathroom. Like, you have to have like totalitarian control. Or, you know, you wind up with this where it's just people get crushed.

• 1:59:21Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:59:22Tucker Carlson?

  In the gears. And, um, no, wow, is this a really racing story?

• 1:59:29Tucker Carlson?

  So you get out of jail the second time. Again, I just want to remind anyone who's made it this far in the conversation. Your crime was not prescribing the COVID vax, not giving administering the COVID vax.

• 1:59:40Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:59:41Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 1:59:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:59:44Tucker Carlson?

  Then what happens? Then your trial is still in progress.

• 1:59:47Speaker 02

  So we get out of jail or I get out of jail. And now we're, you know, planning on going to trial. I mean, there's a whole other story behind it, but it's, you know, it's kind of long. And we finally are scheduled for trial to go in July. They do that superseding indictment.

• 2:00:05Tucker Carlson?

  This July?

• 2:00:06Speaker 02

  So July, just last month.

• 2:00:08Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:08Speaker 02

  Like six weeks ago. And they did that superseding indictment where they had to take out that other agents, you know,

• 2:00:16Tucker Carlson?

  Because he turned out to be a drug dealer. But you're the criminal.

• 2:00:19Speaker 02

  Criminal.

• 2:00:20Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 2:00:20Speaker 02

  Okay. So they do the superseding indictment, add the 20 years to the evidence tampering charge.

• 2:00:30Tucker Carlson?

  Todd Bowden is the one who added 20 years.

• 2:00:32Speaker 02

  Todd Bowden added the 20 years.

• 2:00:34Tucker Carlson?

  Someone's got to pay for this, and I think it should be Todd Bowden.

• 2:00:38Speaker 02

  And, but they did all of this before Donald Trump was, you know, inaugurated because they were worried. They actually wanted me to go to trial before the inauguration. And because we were originally scheduled for to go to trial on January 15th. So they wanted the trial to start before Trump was going to be inaugurated because they felt that Trump was going to pull the plug on this. Well, Donald Trump gets inaugurated after the superseding indictment. And he announces that weaponization work group. That was for the January 6 people. And then Pam Bondi comes in and she kind of puts the weaponization work group together. And she assigns the people that are supposed to go on this committee. It's the deputy attorney general.

• 2:01:20Speaker 02

  It's the attorney, the assistant attorney for civil rights, the assistant attorney for legal services, and then a number of other people that are on this committee. Okay. So as soon as they do that, we submit a packet to them, to this weaponization work group for, because one of the things in that.

• 2:01:43Speaker 02

  It wasn't an executive order, but the announcement was that we're going to go after any of the weaponization cases of the previous administration. And I was just like, well, we fit in this category there. I mean, they've weaponized the whole.

• 2:01:57Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, you think?

• 2:01:58Speaker 02

  So we go through that. We submit this packet, we get an answer back. We had to then go to the acting US Attorney in the state of Utah to say, ask him whether he would dismiss the case voluntarily without sending it to the Weaponization Work Group. He said, no, we're not planning on dismissing it. So we sent that off to back up to the DOJ in Washington DC.

• 2:02:20Tucker Carlson?

  The Assistant Attorney General of Utah was not going to dismiss it?

• 2:02:23Speaker 02

  So the acting Attorney General, John Vitti, was not going to dismiss the case. He says, no, we think we have a good case. We think we can win it. We're not planning on dismissing the case.

• 2:02:32Tucker Carlson?

  Who is he?

• 2:02:33Speaker 02

  Well, he's the acting Attorney General that, you know, took over for Trina Higgins, who got fired.

• 2:02:38Tucker Carlson?

  US Attorney.

• 2:02:39Speaker 02

  US Attorney.

• 2:02:40Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, the Attorney General.

• 2:02:41Speaker 02

  Oh, oh, sorry, sorry, sorry.

• 2:02:43Tucker Carlson?

  Acting US Attorney, the head federal prosecutor.

• 2:02:46Speaker 02

  The head federal prosecutor, yes. Sorry about that. So the acting US Attorney said, no, we're not going to dismiss the case.

• 2:02:52Tucker Carlson?

  Is he still the acting US Attorney?

• 2:02:53Speaker 02

  He's still the acting US Attorney there, yes.

• 2:02:55Tucker Carlson?

  How?

• 2:02:58Speaker 02

  None of these people get fired.

• 2:03:00Tucker Carlson?

  What is going on?

• 2:03:01Speaker 02

  None of these people get fired. They don't.

• 2:03:06Tucker Carlson?

  This, showing this level of cruelty to a fellow American, to an American citizen, is just disqualifying.

• 2:03:12Speaker 02

  What should be. It should be. You know, I've had this conversation with friends of mine. What happened to the humanity, right, of our society? What happened to?

• 2:03:22Tucker Carlson?

  Crushing people. And they're not even bad people. I mean, in a world with a lot of bad people, by the way.

• 2:03:28Speaker 02

  There are a lot of bad people out there. And, but again, this is a system that's built on winning. It's not built on the justice. It's not built on truth. Okay? It's built on winning. And when they see a case that they can win, okay, then they're going to go after you. And they really thought that they were going to win and they really wanted to win because they really wanted to show, don't fuck with us because this is what's going to happen with you.

• 2:03:55Speaker 02

  That brings up levels of hostility in me that I feel guilty about.

• 2:04:01Tucker Carlson?

  So, okay, so as of six weeks ago, you were on trial for your, literally for your life.

• 2:04:06Speaker 02

  Yes. So we filed this with a weaponization work group. Eventually, the weaponization work group said, no, we're not gonna, we're not gonna, we're not gonna intervene in this case.

• 2:04:15Tucker Carlson?

  What?

• 2:04:15Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:04:18Tucker Carlson?

  Why?

• 2:04:20Speaker 02

  Uh, that's a really good question. I don't know why. Um, it was, I got my email from the DOJ in DC, or my attorney got the email. Um, probably within a, within a few days or within a week of, um, and I don't know if it's just coincidence. I don't think, do you remember, um, Ed Martin, right? Ed Martin was nominated, was nominated for the DC Circuit Court.

• 2:04:48Tucker Carlson?

  Correct.

• 2:04:49Speaker 02

  And, and one of our senators, Comer, I think, said he wouldn't vote for him. I can't remember who the, who it was.

• 2:04:55Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, no, he's been in this room telling a story. Yes.

• 2:04:58Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 2:04:58Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:04:59Speaker 02

  So, anyway, um, so he got, he, you know, his nomination gets pulled, um, and then the very next day, he gets assigned as the pardons attorney at the DOJ. Right about that time was when I got notified that they weren't gonna take my case. I don't think Ed Martin knew about my case at the time.

• 2:05:17Tucker Carlson?

  I'd be surprised.

• 2:05:19Speaker 02

  Um, and that's what I've heard as well. Um, but I just don't think he had enough time to kind of get in there and figure things out. I mean, it takes time, you know.

• 2:05:27Tucker Carlson?

  They take the effective ones out immediately. They know who you are. They can smell it on you.

• 2:05:31Speaker 02

  So, um, so anyway, uh, and I don't think that my case ever made it to the committee. I think my case was headed off before it got to the committee. I can't prove that. I don't know that.

• 2:05:48Tucker Carlson?

  Doctors have an inalienable right to choose the treatment they deem most effective for their own patients. Like, that's just a foundational fact of American medicine, and it has to remain that. So, um, and by the way, they've lectured us on that for, like, my entire life, 40 years. It's between a doctor and his patients. Okay. All right. All right now. Um, and they not only, uh, stripped that right from you and from your patients, they threw you in jail twice and then tried to send you away for life. For exercising a foundational right. So that's all I would need to know if I was on that working group or that committee or wherever they fucking call it. It's like, no, this is outrageous. And anyone who prosecuted this guy is fired immediately.

• 2:06:33Tucker Carlson?

  That's just not hard. This is not a tough one. Right? This is not a let's split the baby.

• 2:06:38Speaker 02

  Well, you and I have, you and I have common sense. And you're right. You don't need to split the baby in this case. I didn't keep anybody from being vaccinated that wanted to be vaccinated.

• 2:06:47Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 2:06:47Speaker 02

  And I, and I didn't vaccinate the people that didn't want to be vaccinated.

• 2:06:51Tucker Carlson?

  Exactly. Thank you.

• 2:06:51Speaker 02

  And I took care of my patients the way they were in front of me. And I didn't fool anybody. It's not like I was telling him that I was doing something when I wasn't or not.

• 2:07:00Tucker Carlson?

  It's not like you told them the vaccine was safe and effective and it would prevent transmission of COVID.

• 2:07:04Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 2:07:05Tucker Carlson?

  Right. Cause there were quite a few doctors who did that. That's called fraud. And none of them has been indicted for it.

• 2:07:10Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:07:11Tucker Carlson?

  Right. Okay. Sorry. Whoa. I almost have to bring this to a close because you're making me so mad. I care for my cardiovascular health.

• 2:07:20Speaker 02

  So, so I'll tell you, so in the end, it gets denied. I, like I said, I then go to trial. July 7th was the beginning of trial.

• 2:07:31Tucker Carlson?

  This is like a bad dream, dude.

• 2:07:34Speaker 02

  So I go to trial. There was a, there was a small rally for us the day our trial started. We actually had the Speaker of the House, the state of Utah was there on our behalf.

• 2:07:45Tucker Carlson?

  Good.

• 2:07:46Speaker 02

  A couple of other politicians were there as well. Carrie Ann Listonby, you know, Kristin Chevry, you know, gave her support. And, you know, there were a couple of people that had run for, for the House, US House that were there. So people that were pretty well known. And they, you know, they formed a rally for us and, you know, with signs and everything supporting us. We had jury selection for three days. During that time, Ed Zall, who was one of the producers for the movie Died Suddenly, was there and he was documenting everything. He was doing video and pictures and cameras. He was writing down notes. He

• 2:08:27Speaker 02

  was in the courthouse for all five days. And he published an article midweek that basically accused Pam Bondi of personally prosecuting me because it's her DOJ that was letting this go and she should know better.

• 2:08:44Speaker 02

  That article went viral, got picked up by Marjorie Taylor Greene, got picked up by Thomas Massey and Senator Lee. And then we had a

• 2:08:56Tucker Carlson?

  The three members of Congress I love. Okay, I'm so glad to hear that.

• 2:09:00Speaker 02

  And then, and then picked up, and then we had another larger rally on Friday. And my son spoke at both of those rallies. One of his speeches went viral, 1.7 million views. And, and then later, and so we were, by this time, we're in trial. I actually got accused of jury tampering because we, because we reposted the links to the rallies that were happening. The prosecutors accused us of jury tampering. Thankfully, the judge shot them down and said, I think we still have a First Amendment in our country. And

• 2:09:41Speaker 02

  so then trial goes through Friday. I thought we had done a really nice job. I mean, their witnesses were the director of the CDC COVID Task Force, a guy by the name of Chris Dugger. And he called us the enemy. The people that were vaccine hesitant.

• 2:09:57Tucker Carlson?

  Sick.

• 2:09:58Speaker 02

  The vaccine people were the enemy. Then he said that in court, that we were the enemy, that they had to

• 2:10:05Tucker Carlson?

  The enemy.

• 2:10:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, that we, that they had to change their policies because the anti-vax people were the enemy, the enemy of

• 2:10:12Tucker Carlson?

  The American citizens.

• 2:10:13Speaker 02

  The American citizens were the enemy.

• 2:10:15Tucker Carlson?

  The federal agency is calling American citizens the enemy because they disagree.

• 2:10:18Speaker 02

  Yes, yes.

• 2:10:19Tucker Carlson?

  You just shut it down. I mean, I don't understand.

• 2:10:22Speaker 02

  Okay, we had the director of BARDA, Gary Disbrow, the director of BARDA, the bio,

• 2:10:31Speaker 02

  gosh, I can't, I wish I could remember these acronyms, what it stands for. But essentially, they were the ones that were in charge of

• 2:10:40Speaker 02

  In charge of the pharmaceutical companies getting the COVID shots and determining whether they, you know, who was going to get what and everything else and looking at quote unquote safety and then all of this stuff of these COVID vaccines and giving them the license to be able to distribute these products. And he was the director of that. The interesting thing was is that he came all the way across from Washington DC to testify in my case. And there was a contract that he said that he was intimately involved in negotiating with between the Department of Defense. Okay, again, this is what we mentioned earlier, the DOD and the pharmaceutical companies. Okay, they tried to submit this contract,

• 2:11:25Speaker 02

  redacted. We objected and you can't submit a redacted contract. The judge said, you're right. Get the contract unredacted or you can't do it. They actually got the contract unredacted and then they decided to not present the contract. Okay, I don't know what was in the contract. My attorneys do because it was an attorney's eyes only. But my supposition, my speculation is, is that I think a couple of things. One is, I think that the contract predated COVID. Okay, that's my speculation is, is that this contract was, you know, predated with this. They started the negotiations sometime in 2019. Okay?

• 2:12:06Tucker Carlson?

  Just getting ready.

• 2:12:07Speaker 02

  And then it showed how involved our government was and our Department of Defense was in terms of development and manufacturer and everything else of this vaccine. And I believe that it showed that they did everything and then they just slapped the labels on it for the pharmaceutical companies.

• 2:12:22Tucker Carlson?

  It was called Operation Warp Speed. Operation. Who does operations? Is it going to do operations? No, they have product rollouts. Does Pfizer do operations? I don't think so. They're not occupying any countries. So the US military does operations. That's who does operations.

• 2:12:38Speaker 02

  And that's why it was run by General Perna. Operation Warp Speed was run by a guy, a general in our, you know.

• 2:12:45Tucker Carlson?

  So did the, pardon my ignorance, though, in this interview, ignorance has really helped me because I'm like shocked by everything you've said.

• 2:12:54Tucker Carlson?

  And your case got almost no publicity outside of Utah.

• 2:12:56Speaker 02

  They didn't want publicity.

• 2:12:57Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, well, you didn't get any. I would have been on it a lot earlier if I'd known it was happening.

• 2:13:02Speaker 02

  I tried to, at the very beginning of my indictment, I tried to get my indictment pushed back because I didn't even have an attorney yet. So we're talking about January 23. So January 26 was when.

• 2:13:15Tucker Carlson?

  Your real estate.

• 2:13:16Speaker 02

  Arraignment. So arraignment was January 26th, and I tried to get it pushed back because I didn't have an attorney. And I was told at the time that, no, we can't push it back because we have media there and everything else, and we don't want to change the date. So we will assign you an attorney for your arraignment only. Okay. When I showed up for my arraignment, there were exactly zero mainstream media people there. We had a rally that day, too. We had a couple hundred people that were out on the steps that were there supporting us and everything else because we had put out the word. But I truly believe that even though we were told that the media was supposed to be there, they didn't want to delay it any further because they didn't want to give us the opportunity to get more media publicity, to have more people there. So they didn't want media. That's why they, that's why they were going against the necessity defense.

• 2:14:01Speaker 02

  They didn't want us to put the COVID vaccine on trial. They didn't want us to put all this evidence that we could have put into.

• 2:14:08Tucker Carlson?

  The COVID vaccine is the center of the story. The government property you're indicted for destroying was the COVID vax.

• 2:14:15Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:14:15Tucker Carlson?

  The reason that you didn't want to administer the COVID vax is because you thought the COVID vax was ineffective at best and poisonous at worst.

• 2:14:21Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:14:21Tucker Carlson?

  The whole story is the COVID vax.

• 2:14:23Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 2:14:24Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 2:14:25Speaker 02

  But we weren't allowed to talk.

• 2:14:26Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, in our system, they can indict you, threaten you with life in prison, throw you in jail twice, and then decide how you can defend yourself.

• 2:14:33Speaker 02

  Right. So one last thing that I'll tell you, and that'll get your blood boiling going even further.

• 2:14:39Tucker Carlson?

  I can't handle it anymore, doctor.

• 2:14:40Speaker 02

  Okay. Right before trial started, the prosecution filed four more motions. And basically, they were a motion, so in our country, fraud requires intent. Okay. You have to intent, you have to intentionally defraud somebody. You have to have the intent that you're taking money from somebody, that you're telling them you're going to do something, and you didn't do it, or you're going to use it for some other reason, and that was your intent. Okay. So they filed four more motions that the judge actually didn't deny to preclude me from, if I got on the stand, from even me talking about what my intent was. So if I'd had to get on the stand, it's very likely that I wasn't even going to be

• 2:15:23Speaker 02

  able to tell the story that I just told you. In other words, the judge was going to keep me from saying, well, Dr. Moore, you can't say why it was that you're doing it.

• 2:15:32Tucker Carlson?

  How about you just say, no, I'm guaranteed by the Bill of Rights, in fact, first line item in the Bill of Rights, the right to say what I think is true. It's called the First Amendment, and I'm going to say this in court. What would happen? Back to Salt Lake City Jail?

• 2:15:48Speaker 02

  Probably, probably.

• 2:15:51Tucker Carlson?

  So how are you here?

• 2:15:53Speaker 02

  Well, so that Friday at the end of court, with all of the publicity, Marjorie Taylor Greene getting ahold of, she said, I am sending a letter right now to AG Bondi. I believe she got on the phone with her. I think.

• 2:16:06Tucker Carlson?

  Did you know Marjorie Taylor Greene?

• 2:16:08Speaker 02

  I did not know her from Adam.

• 2:16:10Tucker Carlson?

  Marjorie Taylor Greene has helped more people individually than any member of Congress. Of course, she never gets credit for anything, but that's true. So she's just moved by a sense of justice.

• 2:16:19Speaker 02

  She's moved by a sense of justice, coming from the state of Georgia with me in the state of Utah. Okay. Thomas Massey put out a really nice tweet about us that went viral as well. Senator Mike Lee did. Senator Mike Lee finally contacted Attorney General Bondi as well. Friday, so Saturday morning, our case got dismissed. Attorney General Bondi put out a tweet and said, you know, Dr. Moore gave his parents a choice, or gave his patients a choice that the federal government did not. I am dismissing this case on my, at my direction. This ends now. Those three words. And so, and then five days later, I'm in her

• 2:17:00Speaker 02

  office, meeting her, MTG, and Mike Lee. You know, so, like I said, I didn't.

• 2:17:08Tucker Carlson?

  So a week before, you were facing life in prison, and the next thing you know, you're in the Attorney General's office.

• 2:17:12Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:17:13Tucker Carlson?

  When, what was that date that that happened?

• 2:17:15Speaker 02

  So July 12th was the day. It was a Saturday, which was the day that my case got dismissed. And so July 17th, we were in her office.

• 2:17:23Tucker Carlson?

  So six weeks ago, how's your head now? Like, how's your life?

• 2:17:30Speaker 02

  It's been a whirlwind. It's been a big change. We are trying to put our pieces back together. I'm trying to-

• 2:17:40Tucker Carlson?

  So from, just to restate the timeline really quick, from the day the FBI showed up at your office, scared the hell out of your lone patient, until July 17th, how long was that?

• 2:17:51Speaker 02

  So, two and a half years.

• 2:17:52Tucker Carlson?

  So, two and a half years is just gone from your life-

• 2:17:54Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:17:55Tucker Carlson?

  At age 60, just gone.

• 2:17:56Speaker 02

  Right. And I'm having to rebuild my practice and say, start over. I mean, I'm not really kind of formally starting over, but yeah, it's rebuilding-

• 2:18:05Tucker Carlson?

  Your appetite for starting over, I can say since I'm 56, diminishes with age. So like, you don't want to do that at this age. It's just like not, you should be with-

• 2:18:15Speaker 02

  And why do I want to stay in medicine? Right?

• 2:18:19Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 2:18:19Speaker 02

  I mean, that's, that's the question that I struggle with every day. Because 99% of the people out there believe that I didn't do what was right, or that I was not, that what I did was wrong.

• 2:18:33Tucker Carlson?

  So if you got a bunch, just a cross-section of American physicians and said, you know, knowing the evidence, does Dr. Moore deserve to be sent to jail twice, you know, with MS-13? And then do life in prison? How many do you think would agree?

• 2:18:48Speaker 02

  Oh, I think that's, that's a different question. I don't know that a lot of them would agree. I think that, but I would say that there's probably a third of them that would. There's still a third of the doctors that are out there that would say that what I did was wrong. I falsified medical records. I-

• 2:19:05Tucker Carlson?

  These are the people who lied about the effectiveness of the COVID vax.

• 2:19:08Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 2:19:09Tucker Carlson?

  Right, okay. So that's why I don't go to the doctor. I mean, this is like, that's, this is an, I'm not sure how you fix this.

• 2:19:15Speaker 02

  I don't either. I don't either. But that's the struggle with my profession right now, is that it's so-

• 2:19:26Speaker 02

  It's so bought and paid for by the pharmaceutical industry from top to bottom. They own the textbooks, they own the medical schools, they own the journals. They, they own our conferences, they own our medical organizations, the AMA, the American College of Obstetrics, you know, the, look, the AMA has a code of ethics. Okay, the code of ethics says, it's a printed code of ethics that says that as a physician, you are going to come into conflict with the law. We know that that's gonna happen. You have two things that you need to do as a physician. The first one is you need to try to change the law so that it can comport back into your code of ethics that you're taking care of your patient. And if your second thing is if you can't do that, you have to take care of your patient that's in front of you.

• 2:20:10Speaker 02

  I don't see the AMA standing behind me and helping me out.

• 2:20:13Tucker Carlson?

  Is the AMA that's for late term abortion? I mean, shut up AMA.

• 2:20:16Speaker 02

  I guess.

• 2:20:16Tucker Carlson?

  Disgusting.

• 2:20:17Speaker 02

  Right, it is.

• 2:20:18Tucker Carlson?

  Liar. Why don't you go to work for Bobby Kennedy?

• 2:20:23Speaker 02

  Hi, I don't know, if he called me, I'd probably consider it. But, you know, he's having a tough time right now, too.

• 2:20:31Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, I know.

• 2:20:34Speaker 02

  You know, the whole, Dan Bongino and Cash Patel are having a hard time. Okay, the, the stink is deep. Okay, and, you know, I mean, what was it, just a couple of weeks ago, Dan Bongino said that if you knew what I knew, you, you know, you'd, you'd struggle too.

• 2:20:55Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, he told me that. I love Dan. He called me, he was upset. He didn't give me any specifics, no classified information.

• 2:21:03Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:21:04Tucker Carlson?

  Everything's classified, all of their wrongdoings are classified.

• 2:21:07Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:21:07Tucker Carlson?

  All of my sins are public, but.

• 2:21:08Speaker 02

  But it's, it's such a rot that goes so deep, it's been going on for 250 years and it's only gotten, it's only, look, you know this, it's human nature. You don't, you can't, if you don't get caught in a lie and you don't suffer the consequences of it, then you're gonna lie again. And our government and our politicians and, and our industry and everybody has been lying to us for decades, for centuries. And it's just, it's lie upon lie upon lie. And you, you get to the point where, oh my gosh, you just can't, you, you can't get to the bottom of it.

• 2:21:44Tucker Carlson?

  No. All made possible by secrecy.

• 2:21:48Speaker 02

  All made possible by secrecy.

• 2:21:51Tucker Carlson?

  I'm really, once again, I consider you a hero. I'm grateful for what you did. I'm grateful you're still here. I hope you recover. I can't imagine what it must have done to you. And I hope that the rest of your life is spent in a really useful pursuit. I hope that you find that thing. And maybe it's not medicine, but I think you've got a, your example is inspiring, and I think you've got a lot to give to the country. And I hope you find a way to give it. I appreciate you having me on, Tucker. Oh, I mean it. Thank you, doctor. Okay, thank you.

• 2:22:24Tucker Carlson?

  We want to thank you for watching us on Spotify, a company that we use every day. We know the people who run it, good people. While you're here, do us a favor. Hit follow and tap the bell so you never miss an episode. We have real conversations, news, things that actually matter, telling the truth always. You will not miss it if you follow us on Spotify and hit the bell. We appreciate it. Thanks for watching.