SYSK Gets Weird Playlist: The Creepy Legacy of the Hotel Cecil

The Hotel Cecil in downtown Los Angeles has had no less than 16 unnatural deaths, from suicides to murders and everything in between. Listen in to the history of this decidedly creepy hotel. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:04Speaker 01

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• 1:02Speaker 01

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• 1:37Josh Clark?

  The Hotel Cecil is probably best known as the site for the very sad death of Elisa Lam in 2013, or maybe you know it as a setting in American Horror Story. It turns out that Elisa was just one in an unusually long line of deaths that took place in the Cecil, which seems to have had way more than its fair share of tragedy since it was built in 1924. I'll leave it to you to get to the bottom of what's up with the Hotel Cecil.

• 2:06Speaker 00

  Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeart Radio.

• 2:16Josh Clark?

  Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant over there and Jerry's hanging around in sunny area lurking like a unseen spirit in a haunted hotel.

• 2:32Josh Clark?

  And this is Stuff You Should Know.

• 2:34Speaker 01

  Yeah. Can we do a couple of quick announcements?

• 2:39Josh Clark?

  Yeah, sure.

• 2:40Speaker 01

  Without singing that announcement song?

• 2:42Josh Clark?

  Did we have an announcement song ever?

• 2:44Speaker 01

  Well, not us, but it like summer camp.

• 2:47Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 2:48Speaker 01

  You never did that?

• 2:49Josh Clark?

  No.

• 2:51Speaker 01

  Well, I'm not gonna sing it now, then.

• 2:52Josh Clark?

  I kinda wanna hear it now.

• 2:54Speaker 01

  No, no, no, no, no.

• 2:55Josh Clark?

  Was it like announcements, announcements, it's announcements time?

• 2:59Speaker 01

  It sort of, almost. Yeah, that's close enough. Trigger warning for this one, first announcement, because there's some grisly stuff in here. I guess that's all we need to say. And then also, we've been remiss in that we haven't mentioned the fact that there's a Stuff You Should Know board game out.

• 3:19Josh Clark?

  Yeah, it's not grisly at all.

• 3:21Speaker 01

  No, it's very family friendly, in fact.

• 3:24Josh Clark?

  It's one of the highest honors that's ever been bestowed upon us and Stuff You Should Know, Chuck, because out of the blue, out of nowhere, about a year and a half ago, maybe?

• 3:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:38Josh Clark?

  Trivial Pursuit, the makers of Trivial Pursuit got in touch with us and said, we want to do a Stuff You Should Know Trivial Pursuit game. And they did. It wasn't a practical joke.

• 3:48Speaker 01

  The fine people at Hasbro, who I gotta say, I mean, we've worked with a lot of outside companies for various projects. And boy, Hasbro is about as tight and buttoned up and awesome as any company we've ever worked with.

• 4:01Josh Clark?

  Right. But also like super friendly, super fun, super nice. And not in like that creepy, everybody's trying to be nice way. Like, they're all just like a genuinely pleasant group to work with. But yes, they are super buttoned up as well. Very rare animals. Yeah, they make games.

• 4:16Speaker 01

  They all seem like they make games for a living, which would mean that you have a pretty cool job. And developing the game with them was fun. And the questions are based on Real Stuff You Should Know episodes. And it is not just Trivial Pursuit. It is co-branded, so it is not, do not expect to get the Trivial Pursuit game with a little pieces of pie.

• 4:36Josh Clark?

  No, no.

• 4:37Speaker 01

  Just wanted to be clear.

• 4:38Josh Clark?

  They said, we want to make up a brand new game for this. And they did. They made up a game. And this is the Stuff You Should Know Trivial Pursuit game.

• 4:47Speaker 01

  That's right. And you can get it wherever you get games. I recommend your local little indie toy gaming store if they have it. But otherwise, we would love the support.

• 4:56Josh Clark?

  You got a weirdo in your town who dresses up in wizard clothes and goes to work? Go buy your game there.

• 5:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, great Christmas gift, by the way.

• 5:04Josh Clark?

  Yeah, for sure. Also, why, why just stop there? It's great for dads, grads, moms, proms, everything.

• 5:13Speaker 01

  I think it's like 20 bucks, right?

• 5:15Josh Clark?

  Yeah, it's like really, really reasonably priced, if you ask me. $20. 20 bucks. You got two 20s in your wallet, you could buy our book and the game at the same time.

• 5:25Speaker 01

  So we did, we did the TV show. We did a book. We do a podcast.

• 5:32Josh Clark?

  Don't forget our YouTube series.

• 5:34Speaker 01

  Oh, sure. Who can?

• 5:37Josh Clark?

  And now, now Chuck.

• 5:39Speaker 01

  And now the game.

• 5:40Josh Clark?

  It's amazing.

• 5:42Speaker 01

  And now the Hotel Cecil.

• 5:43Josh Clark?

  Yes, on to the show. So I'm glad you did that little trigger warning, because there is some grisly stuff in here. But there's also, I think, some like fact settings, some fact straightening that, you know, we should do from the outset. Because one of the things that people who get into the Elisa Lam story, which we'll talk about in a little bit, quickly find that there are all manner of internet, urban legends and myths and conspiracy theories surrounding it. And none of those seem to be true. And we should-

• 6:23Speaker 01

  It's pretty annoying, actually.

• 6:24Josh Clark?

  Yeah, it is very annoying. It's just so internet-y, too. You know what I mean?

• 6:29Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, this, this goes on a lot these days, but it seems like this one maybe more so than even others. Because the bizarre nature of one part of this story and, I don't know, I found myself slightly annoyed.

• 6:44Josh Clark?

  I am too. In the exact same way that I'm annoyed by people who believe that the couple from The Conjuring were like, you know, legit in real life. You know what I mean?

• 6:55Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 6:55Josh Clark?

  But at the same time, it goes even further than that. I think I ran across a couple of articles that I really think struck home. What's genuinely annoying and even disrespectful about that is that, like, Elisa Lam died because she had serious mental illness that had been diagnosed and she wasn't managing properly with the medications that she was on. And that happens a lot. And she died because of it. And so to say that she was possessed by evil spirits, or that there were, you know, ghosts at the Cecil, or even that she was murdered by an unknown suspect, it's really, it really, it really disrespects the reality of the situation, which is, you know, sad enough as it is. But at the same

• 7:39Josh Clark?

  time, Chuck, there's one more thing I have to caveat all this with. It's understandable, the impulse to, to bring in, you know, restless spirits and, you know, the just conspiracy theories. It's understandable in this particular situation because of the setting.

• 7:58Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I guess, you know, the first part of this show will be about the setting, which is the Hotel Cecil in downtown Los Angeles, which is not open right now. It may be open in the future. I think they were doing a, this thing was open in the 1920s during the height of the depression. And it's a very large hotel, 19 floors, 700 rooms. And in the 1920s, it was sort of like a, a big deal for downtown Los Angeles. It was near a major rail station. And it was kind of just what LA needed. And it was kind of fancy schmancy for the time. And over the years, you know, we'll talk a little bit about

• 8:38Speaker 01

  the downfall. But at the time of Elisa Lam's stay, they had carved out three floors and built a separate lobby entrance to try and, in an effort to rebrand this hotel as something called Stay on Main. And that they had three kind of floors that were a little bit redone cosmetically, a little bit of a nicer lobby that was, you know, sort of away from, you know, some of the situations that we're gonna detail here in a second. But they did all share a common elevator. And Elisa Lam was staying in the Stay on Main, Stay on Main section. Stayed on Main.

• 9:21Speaker 01

  But that's just to point out the fact that the hotel was gonna eventually supposedly undergo a massive renovation and that it was all sort of put on hold because of COVID. And I think now it's just being sat on with some of the long-term tenants that are protected to stay there.

• 9:36Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I think it was like 30, but there's, like you said, 700 rooms.

• 9:40Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 9:41Josh Clark?

  But you said it, that the Cecil Hotel, which is very much down at the heels now, started life in a much different way, where it was meant to be like a pretty nice hotel designed for middle-class travelers to LA. And that situation next to the rail station was a big draw for it. It was definitely a feather in its cap. And I saw it's in the Bozart style. It's not incredibly pretty from the outside, but the inside lobby is still pretty neat looking.

• 10:17Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 10:18Josh Clark?

  Lots of terrazzo tile and columns, and there's fake Roman statuary and a big clock and like the, over the check-in desk, it's really pretty and a really like, you know, 1920s original, original style still, although it's just kind of got this drab air that's kind of fallen over it over the years.

• 10:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, and that is in large part because, like you said, there are a lot of unhoned people there today, a lot back then. The area called Skid Row of downtown Los Angeles is kind of right there. I used to drive through that area sometimes when I lived in LA, when we would go downtown to eat sushi, or if we, you know, back then, when I lived there, downtown was not as much of a destination unless you were going to Staples Center or something. But it's made a real resurgence since I've left and kind of trying to build downtown back up. But Skid Row is still an issue and they're, you know, like you said, that there are people

• 11:17Speaker 01

  there that work with unhoned folks that are really trying their best to take care of them. And the fact that that hotel is right there, sort of looming large, is a bit of a thumb in the eye.

• 11:29Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and I get the impression that the area that's now Skid Row in Los Angeles had, had, at least since the 1880s, kind of had a, an unusual reputation. It wasn't always, you know, for people down on their luck or anything like that, but, you know, it was a little more low rent than other parts of Los Angeles. Like, there was just a mishmash of all sorts of different people. It seemed like really alive. And the Cecil was kind of built at the outskirts of that, between what would become Skid Row and then one of the nicest parts of LA at the time, Bunker Hill. And everything was hunky-dory for the Cecil when it first opened in either 1924 or 1927, depending on who you ask. I could not confirm one way or the other.

• 12:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:15Josh Clark?

  Because both dates have kind of taken off so much. But when the stock market crashed, that area that was just kind of colorful and a little bit low rent, that it quickly became Skid Row as we understand it, beginning around the Great Depression. And not only did the proximity to Skid Row kind of like lower the Cecil star rating, when the tenants started, the hotel guests started to dry up, they had to lower their rates and start catering to people who, people of less means. And so the hotel just kind of stopped taking care of itself little by little, starting around the Great Depression and continuing on through World War II.

• 13:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, and you know, it kind of became a last resort kind of destination for people with addiction problems, people in the, in the sex working industry. And, you know, it got that reputation and pretty soon got a reputation for all kinds of bad things happening there. There have been no less than 15 or 16 what's classified, I guess, as an unnatural death at the Cecil. Many people took their own lives there. Quite a few, I mean, if you read down the laundry list, it's like quite a few people ingested poison, quite a few people jumped, or maybe were pushed out windows.

• 13:41Speaker 01

  There have been some murders by gun, there have been murders by strangulation, there have been sexual assaults. This one sad case of a woman who gave birth to a baby and was suffering from some sort of mental illness, evidently thought her baby was, was born not alive and went to throw the baby out the window. And it turns out the baby was alive, then then died. She was found not guilty, I think temporary insanity was the plea there. And just weird, kind of tragic, awful things happening over the years, time and time again at the Hotel Cecil.

• 14:21Josh Clark?

  Yeah, like another frequently referred to incident was where a woman named Pauline Otten, she jumped from, I think, like the ninth or 10th floor to take her own life and landed on a guy who was a passerby, who happened to just be walking unluckily beneath the Cecil at that moment on the sidewalk and was struck by Pauline. And they were both killed. And like, that, that doesn't usually happen very often. Like, that's a pretty remarkable thing. And I know that, that, like, the most I could find was, I think, 18 incidents, but it seems like those are just ones that have been documented.

• 15:04Josh Clark?

  There seems to be quite a bit more. There was a Netflix series, I think a four-part series on this recently, and they interviewed a woman who had spent 10 years managing the Cecil. And she said that, her name was Amy Price, she said that under her 10-year tenure, at least 80 people died, that she knows of. And you can kind of imagine, like, like, you know, you could find newspaper write-ups from like the 20s and 30s and 40s, when somebody jumps out a window, and definitely when somebody jumps out a window and lands on a hapless pedestrian, like, that's definitely going to be documented and make news. But if somebody on Skid Row overdoses and dies in this hotel, you know, is that going to be documented?

• 15:49Josh Clark?

  So it's possible that there are a lot more people who have died at the Cecil under, from unnatural causes over the years than, than just those 17 or 18.

• 16:01Speaker 01

  Did you watch all of that documentary?

• 16:03Josh Clark?

  No, I haven't seen it actually, yet.

• 16:05Speaker 01

  Oh, okay.

• 16:06Josh Clark?

  Have you seen the whole thing?

• 16:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, I feel terrible because the director was, is the great Joe Berlinger, who actually had on Movie Crush, in one of my favorite episodes, where we kind of just talked about documentary filmmaking, he's a legend. He did the Paradise Lost series, he did that documentary on Metallica when they're all in therapy.

• 16:26Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah.

• 16:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, he's just, he's just sort of the, a legend in the genre.

• 16:31Josh Clark?

  I saw he did the Ted Bundy tapes recently, that's like his.

• 16:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, he did that, and then he directed the movie version with, what's his face?

• 16:39Josh Clark?

  Ryan Gosling.

• 16:40Speaker 01

  Zac Efron. With who?

• 16:42Josh Clark?

  I said Ryan Gosling.

• 16:43Speaker 01

  Oh, close. Another super handsome hunk. And that was a good movie, but this wasn't so great. I didn't love it. It felt kind of overlong and a little salacious and like.

• 16:54Josh Clark?

  Yeah, that's the impression I had from reading about it.

• 16:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I was disappointed, but Joe is a great filmmaker and a good guy, so I feel kind of bad giving it.

• 17:01Josh Clark?

  I think that's a fair caveat. A great filmmaker and a good guy can still make a hunk of poop.

• 17:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, it wasn't a hunk of poop. It was all right.

• 17:11Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 17:12Speaker 01

  But maybe let's take a break and I'll email Joe and tell him I'm sorry ahead of time.

• 17:17Josh Clark?

  All right.

• 17:18Speaker 01

  And we'll be right back.

• 17:31Josh Clark?

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• 17:44Josh Clark?

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• 19:16Josh Clark?

  So, uh, okay, we're, we're, so we're, the Cecil Hotel starts to get a pretty, pretty, not a great reputation, even around town. I, I read a article on kct.org, which I guess is a PBS station in SoCal. And they said that local residents started to refer to the, um, the Cecil as the suicide. That was the name of the hotel for people around there. Um, and it just, it just kind of like, it just kept going. Like every time, you know, maybe a couple of years would pass without some high-profile death in the hotel, and then it would happen again. And, and it would just reaffirm everybody's ideas that there was, that place just wasn't quite right. There was something wrong with it, almost

• 20:01Josh Clark?

  like it was a magnet for that kind of tragedy, you know?

• 20:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, I think most major cities have had at least one of these hotels that just sort of is inexpensive, maybe in the wrong part of town, and has a reputation sometimes for lurid activities and checking in and not checking out. Uh, and this was LA's, and LA for sure had more than one.

• 20:26Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 20:27Speaker 01

  Um, it did not help their reputation in the 1980s, uh, when Richard Ramirez, AKA the Night Stalker, and one of the more sensational serial killers in American history, uh, he stayed there for a while and, um, lived there and apparently brought body parts back to the Cecil Hotel, I said Cecil like I'm British, uh, Cecil Hotel, from some of his victims to ingest there. Uh, and that's certainly like, super creepy.

• 20:56Josh Clark?

  Wait, did you say ingest? I hadn't come across that. Did he eat, uh, that victim's eyeballs?

• 21:02Speaker 01

  I think so.

• 21:03Josh Clark?

  Wowee.

• 21:04Speaker 01

  And other, he wasn't like, uh, I don't think he was Dahmer level, but he was known to eat some body parts. He has a, there's a great documentary on his, his case too.

• 21:16Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 21:17Speaker 01

  It's super disturbing.

• 21:18Josh Clark?

  Yeah, that's on Netflix as well, I think.

• 21:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:20Josh Clark?

  If I'm not mistaken. But, um, one thing I hadn't realized before that I ran across when I was researching some of his stuff, was how he was caught. It's just absolutely triumphant.

• 21:30Speaker 01

  It was a mob of people in a neighborhood.

• 21:34Josh Clark?

  In East LA.

• 21:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was great.

• 21:36Josh Clark?

  He was spotted, he saw himself on the front page of the newspaper, and just instinctively started running, tried to carjack a woman, uh, hit her, uh, was seen hitting her, and an older man, um, basically ran over and helped the, helped the woman, pulled Richard Ramirez out of his car. And, um, the woman whose car it was, husband came over and started beating him. Uh, and he tried to get away and just, uh, an increasingly large mob chased him and would beat him, and he'd get away some more, and they'd chase him down and catch him again. And they finally pinned him down and waited for the cops to come.

• 22:11Speaker 01

  That's how he was caught.

• 22:12Josh Clark?

  It's so great.

• 22:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, and caveat that I'm not down with mob justice, but a group of people finding a serial killer

• 22:20Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 22:21Speaker 01

  on the street and like, subduing him, I'm way okay with that.

• 22:24Josh Clark?

  No, I totally am. In this particular instance, like, I'm all fine with that, that kind of justice, for sure.

• 22:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was, and a badge of honor for, uh, East LA, cause the, the entire city of Los Angeles was, I mean, it was a scary situation there in the 80s.

• 22:39Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I can imagine. That's where Cheech Marin was born, according to that one song of his.

• 22:44Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 22:46Josh Clark?

  Yep. So, uh, the Night Stalker, he was not the only serial killer that checked in there. He actually inspired, just a few years after he was convicted in, I think, 1989, uh, I think like in 92, maybe 93, there was another serial killer named Jack Unterweiger, who, uh, was Austrian, um, who had already been convicted, I think when he was like 19 or early twenties, of killing a woman by strangling her with her own bra.

• 23:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:16Josh Clark?

  Um, and went to prison. He was very, very smart, very charming. He used this to basically get early parole. He convinced the public that he was actually reformed, and apparently was held up. It's like a great example of how, you know, the, the, the prison system could rehabilitate someone. And it was just a complete false fabrication. He was basically posed as a true crime journalist, like he reinvented himself as that, went to LA and other parts. He went to Europe, traveled, uh, through Europe a little bit too, but also ended up in LA, um, to do research on his true crime novels. Went along

• 23:56Josh Clark?

  on ride-alongs with the LAPD, um, and ended up using that to scout, um, victims. He killed three sex workers, and the whole time he was staying at the Cecil Hotel, and they think probably is an homage to, um, to Richard Ramirez, or at least a connection to him, you know?

• 24:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, so that, I mean, at this point, like, the reputation for the hotel, it, it's not the kind of thing that, uh, is gonna appear online, you know, 15 years ago, when young people like Elisa Lam are searching for an inexpensive place to stay. Uh, and sadly, that's exactly what happened, was, um, a Canadian traveler, uh, she was 20, 21 years old, was on her way kind of up the West Coast, traveling by herself. Um, her parents were a little unnerved by her traveling by herself, so she was, you know, asked to check in every day, which she was doing. Uh, and at the time, it was, uh, you know, they had kind of dorm-style rooms, kind of youth hostel-style rooms, where you had bunk

• 24:58Speaker 01

  beds and a shared bathroom. And so you could stay there, it was a traveler's hotel. And if you, uh, you know, I hate to say it, but if you, if you didn't know much about LA, you may end up at the Hotel Cecil, because you could stay there for like 75 bucks a night, or something like that.

• 25:13Josh Clark?

  Yeah, from what I could tell, Stay On Main did a really good job of making their, you know, using their website to their advantage and making it seem like this is a really hip, happening spot. And, I mean, they, in some ways, they were, they were kind of like, just a little ahead of their time, because apparently that area around Skid Row in downtown LA is like, the hippest spot to live in now, again. Um, but at the time, it was still really, really, um, Skid Row-y, basically.

• 25:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:45Josh Clark?

  And

• 25:46Speaker 01

  It could be, it could be, you know, it could be dangerous.

• 25:47Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and I think it still is, but I think it's just becoming more and more gentrified, and it's becoming, I guess, less dangerous in that sense. Um, but at the time, when Elisa Lam showed up in 2013, it was, you know, it was, it was a dangerous place to be, but, um, this particular spot was just full of, you know, especially European kids on basically budget holidays

• 26:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:11Josh Clark?

  uh, staying in LA, basically in hostels. And I know originally, she was put into a room with a couple of other girls that I think were traveling together, but she was traveling alone. So it was very hostile, um, and not hostile with an E.

• 26:25Speaker 01

  Right.

• 26:26Josh Clark?

  Well, yeah, there's an E, but it's in a different place than you'd expect. Um, youth hostility. It was very youth hostility, like she was put in a room with other people at first.

• 26:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, LA didn't have a lot of that. I remember there was a youth hostel in Venice that, uh, for some reason, I always wanted to stay there when I lived in LA. I was like, I'm gonna go down and stay in the hostel one night, cause the beach was so

• 26:49Josh Clark?

  Pick up some dudes.

• 26:50Speaker 01

  The, the beach was really far when you lived on the east side, and you kind of never went over there much, unless someone came to town and wanted to go to the beach.

• 26:57Josh Clark?

  Oh, that makes sense, sure.

• 26:58Speaker 01

  So, and, you know, I was broke back then, so it, it could have been a, like, a little staycation.

• 27:02Josh Clark?

  Did you ever do it?

• 27:03Speaker 01

  Nah.

• 27:04Josh Clark?

  No.

• 27:05Speaker 01

  It's one of those things you think about late night, and then you wake up the next day and you're like, nah.

• 27:10Josh Clark?

  You blew all your money on Taco Bell instead?

• 27:14Speaker 01

  Oh, man, I miss Taco Bell.

• 27:17Josh Clark?

  Do you? I don't.

• 27:18Speaker 01

  Uh, I mean, I didn't eat it that much, but like, I haven't had it in years.

• 27:23Josh Clark?

  I, I've had too much, I think was my problem.

• 27:25Speaker 01

  Oh, okay. Was that the deal?

• 27:27Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 27:28Speaker 01

  By the way, side note, speaking of weird, uh, late night foods, um, we had a guy on our front door camera the other day, come in the middle of the night, and leave a package, and we were like, what is this? We went out the next day, and it was a bag full of Crystals.

• 27:44Josh Clark?

  Wow.

• 27:45Speaker 01

  And I think it was

• 27:47Josh Clark?

  But also creepy.

• 27:48Speaker 01

  A delivery, like a DoorDash or something.

• 27:50Josh Clark?

  Oh, Crystals, I thought you meant like, amethyst or

• 27:52Speaker 01

  No, no, no, I mean tiny square sliders.

• 27:55Josh Clark?

  Yeah, he had the wrong address.

• 27:57Speaker 01

  I think so.

• 27:58Josh Clark?

  Either that, or your daughter is, uh, has mastered the telephone by now.

• 28:02Speaker 01

  It was really weird, and of course, the first thing I did was feel terrible that someone's, uh, late night munchies didn't get satisfied.

• 28:10Josh Clark?

  Did you eat them the next morning, just as a homage?

• 28:13Speaker 01

  Oh, God, no. No, no, no.

• 28:14Josh Clark?

  No? You don't like Crystals? Or was it because it was sitting there overnight?

• 28:18Speaker 01

  Both. I never was into Crystals for some reason.

• 28:21Josh Clark?

  Man, I like Crystals.

• 28:23Speaker 01

  Uh, it was the thing. I just was, I don't know why. I think I was just a Waffle House guy.

• 28:29Josh Clark?

  Uh, I, I don't, I'm fine with Waffle House too. The big problem with Crystals though, Chuck, I'll tell you, is their fries are probably the worst fries of any fast food locate. They're the most bland. Somehow, if you just bit into a raw potato, it would be less bland and tasteless than if you ate a Crystals fry.

• 28:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:49Josh Clark?

  I don't know how they do it. Buh.

• 28:51Speaker 01

  And if you're from the, uh, other places in the country, you might, uh, White Castle is sort of an analog to Crystals.

• 28:57Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 28:59Speaker 01

  Anyway, this is not an episode of the Doughboys.

• 29:04Speaker 01

  This is stuff you should know. And back to Elisa Lam. She was supposed to be there for about, I think, four days and check out on February 1st and did not get in touch with her parents like she had been doing each day. She had been seen shopping for books at a nearby bookstore and then bought some books. And this is one of the things in the documentary, like, you know, they didn't really have any footage of her with any other people inside the hotel before her disappearance.

• 29:34Josh Clark?

  Well, she was also reported to be constantly by herself, too, by people who saw her.

• 29:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, she was traveling alone, so that that makes sense. But she she did get handed off, there were two gentlemen that handed off a kind of a largest largish box to her.

• 29:50Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah.

• 29:50Speaker 01

  On camera in front of the hotel. And of course, the internet sleuths are like, who are these guys? What was in the box? And apparently, in the box were these books that she got because she had spoken with the book read seller about like, the size of them. And boy, I don't even know if I can carry these. And I think had them delivered to the hotel or whatever. So kind of nothing to see here. And another example of how annoying this case can be with people online speculating like wrong stuff.

• 30:17Josh Clark?

  Yeah, yeah, can be a little annoying for sure. But yeah, so she was she was alone, traveling alone. I think she started out in San Diego, or at least her last stop had been San Diego. Her next stop was going to be Santa Cruz. And yeah, her parents have been like, okay, you need to call us every single day.

• 30:38Josh Clark?

  And she had been pretty faithfully until that February 1st came and went with no call. And I believe they pretty much immediately contacted the hotel and the LAPD and said, hey, you know, our daughter hasn't checked in. Can you see what's going on? I don't know if they did it on February 1st or not, but in pretty short order, the LAPD determined that she she was just gone. She wasn't, she was nowhere to be found and that there was some suspiciousness going on for sure.

• 31:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, they did a thorough inspection. They went to her room. They had found that the hotel had gathered all her stuff and bagged it and was holding it in storage, which was regular protocol when someone doesn't check out and just leave stuff. Nothing shady going on there. They checked around the hotel in the alleyways and sidewalks. They checked up on the roof. They didn't find anything. And things got really strange. And I guess we should take another ad break here. But things got really strange when the hotel sent them footage from inside the elevator of the Cecil Hotel. And we'll get to that right after this.

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• 32:34Speaker 03

  Welcome to the haunted library. Have you come in search of a tale? This podcast invites you to browse the shelves and find stories that will linger long after you've left this place. From Gothic masterpieces to pulpy penny dreadfuls. Join me, Colin Morgan, with new episodes twice a week. Find the haunted library wherever you get your podcasts.

• 33:09Josh Clark?

  All right, Chuck. So Elisa Lam is now known to be missing. She left her stuff behind at the Cecil Hotel and she didn't check out. She didn't call her parents as she usually did. And she's officially a missing person. Within a couple of days, I think maybe February 6th, the police held a press conference and explained what was going on to the public. And basically asked for everybody's help and if anyone had any info, you know, where did she go? Where is she? How's she doing? Is she okay? And I guess I don't, I didn't see anything about any get any crazy leads or anything like that. It doesn't seem to have really kind of captured the public's interest at first.

• 33:54Josh Clark?

  And I saw there's this guy named Josh Dean, who's wrote and written several articles on on the Elisa Lam disappearance. And I believe one of the, one of the ones that he wrote kind of pinpoints why there wasn't a huge public interest in the first like week or even two of her case. It was because Christopher Dorner had gone on his rampage against the LAPD, basically declared war on the LAPD and was killed in, I think, the mountains of San Bernardino in a standoff, like right when Elisa Lam went missing. So not only were was the public's attention on this, especially in LA, the LAPD's attention was definitely on that as well.

• 34:39Josh Clark?

  So Elisa Lam was kind of like this faint little chirp in this huge maelstrom at the time.

• 34:45Speaker 01

  Faint chirping and maelstrom.

• 34:47Josh Clark?

  It's the best I could come up with on short notice.

• 34:49Speaker 01

  Amazing. Are you kidding me?

• 34:50Josh Clark?

  Oh, thanks.

• 34:52Speaker 01

  You just made that up?

• 34:52Josh Clark?

  Yeah, yeah, I did. You like it?

• 34:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I just have the feeling that next time I'm at your house, it's going to be like, that's going to be carved into your desk or something.

• 35:03Josh Clark?

  It's on a T-shirt and.

• 35:04Speaker 01

  Right. Did you put, you make Momo wear that T-shirt every day?

• 35:08Josh Clark?

  That's right.

• 35:10Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, you know, the other big reason was until this footage actually came out of the elevator car, then, you know, that's when, that's when the public's attention really caught hold.

• 35:22Josh Clark?

  That changed everything.

• 35:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, there's no way around it. It's it's a very sort of unsettling. And I remember when this happened, before any of the facts of the case were kind of out. I remember looking at this video and it is very unsettling. And it does appear to be very creepy in that a young woman gets on an elevator very kind of casually presses all the center buttons on all the floors. I think they determined she was on the 14th floor and sort of pressed all the floors on the way down.

• 35:54Speaker 01

  Elevator doesn't do anything. The doors don't shut. She moves to the back corner and sort of standing there. She goes and she's, she looks outside of the elevator both ways a couple of times in the hallway and then kind of retreats back quickly. At one point, she steps out into the hallway and appears to be gesturing towards somebody, or she's at least making hand gestures to the right down the hallway.

• 36:19Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and they're unusual hand gestures. They're not like the normal hand gestures you might make. They're not at all subtle or casual or almost even like, like, you know, you might not even realize you're using your hands when you're talking sometimes. Like, these are, these are more gesticulations than just mere gestures. You know what I mean?

• 36:39Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, you know, there's, there's no doubt. And eventually she kind of leaves around to the left and exits to the left. And the door stays open for a while before it shuts.

• 36:50Speaker 01

  But there, there's no getting around the fact that it, having known nothing and knowing that this person disappeared, this young woman, and then you see this, it seems very suspicious.

• 37:00Josh Clark?

  And creepy, admittedly creepy.

• 37:02Speaker 01

  I think it looks, I don't even think it looks that creepy. It looks to me like that she is trying to get away from someone and is afraid someone has followed her or is gesturing at a person who she feels threatened by. It's what it looks like to me. I know other people online are talk about otherworldly spirits. And she's kind, like you said earlier, she's conjuring spirits with her hands. Like, I just, that never occurred to me. It just looked like she might be in some kind of peril and was trying to get away from someone.

• 37:31Josh Clark?

  Right. But that's creepy in and of itself, you know?

• 37:35Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, I just mean that creepy in like a supernatural, like, what's going on here?

• 37:40Josh Clark?

  No, I think the thing that really, when it really turns creepy to me is when she turns around and hides in the corner of the elevator, like she's, she's hiding. And then the second part that's, that's genuinely creepy is when she like leans out and like looks both ways and then kind of jumps back into the elevator. It's just, I mean, it's really hard not to kind of put yourself in her shoes. And she's clearly frightened at that. And to see somebody frightened like that, it's, that's creepy.

• 38:10Speaker 01

  And you're, and you're waiting on someone to enter the elevator, but that never happens.

• 38:17Speaker 01

  And with the internet sleuthing, you couldn't really make out the time code very well. And so all the people online are like, well, why can't you make out the time code and the timestamps? Like, what would degrade that and not the rest of it? And, and then they, they think, right. And then they think they decoded it and there's almost a full minute missing. And the hotel Cecil edited out a portion clearly and before they sent it to the cops. And, and they interviewed the woman and that you were talking about the manager. And she was like, no, of course, we didn't edit anything out. Like, we were horrified by this disappearance. It just sent them everything we had.

• 38:51Josh Clark?

  Right. Plus, I'm sure also that most of the employees that stay on main know exactly how to edit video out before handing things over to the cops anyway.

• 39:00Speaker 01

  Well, it is LA.

• 39:02Josh Clark?

  That's true. That is a good point, actually.

• 39:04Speaker 01

  But I don't buy it. I think it was, it is what it was, which was. A person in an elevator who had some, was having some mental issues. And you know, we'll get to that in a second. And I think, you know, it's sort of like the easiest explanation of the video, at least to me, seems to be the most accurate.

• 39:26Josh Clark?

  All right.

• 39:28Josh Clark?

  That's what I buy. That's how I buy it to you.

• 39:32Josh Clark?

  That was, so that video was released on February 13th and now all of a sudden the public is taking notice. She becomes an internet meme like almost overnight. With people like watching and analyzing that video like you were saying. And yet they still can't find her. No one has any idea where she is. It's been two weeks now since she went missing. This video is out there, the whole, the entire internet is on the case now. And it wasn't until a couple of days, I think, two days after the video came out, Chuck, that one of the guys, one of the custodians of the Cecil Hotel of Stay on Main, I should say, was asked to go check on the water supply on the roof.

• 40:15Josh Clark?

  Because the Cecil Hotel used gravity fed water. They had four 1,000 gallon tanks on the top of the roof. And when you open the tap, the water would come pouring down from those tanks into your room and out the faucet. And some of the tenants, I don't know if it was just the hotel or some long-term tenants, but they were complaining that the water pressure had suddenly gotten really low. And that the, the water that was coming out had a strange odor and taste and weird kind of color to it. And so they dispatched the custodian to the roof. And he went and checked and I think as he was approaching

• 40:59Josh Clark?

  the, the main water tank, I think tank number one, he noticed that the hatch was open. And in very short order made the grisly discovery of Elisa Lam's body.

• 41:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, he was a, he was kind of like the super, he was a maintenance guy. His name is Santiago Lopez. And he's in the documentary too. I don't think he saw the hatch because the hatch is on top of the tank. But he went to go and he said it was a routine thing. If there was any kind of water issue, was to climb the ladder to the tanks and go look and see what was going on because there's probably a clog or something. And he saw her body naked about a foot below the water, just sort of suspended there. And you know, when they interviewed this guy in the documentary, it's really sad, you know, he was sort of at the center of a lot of this with interviews and he, he was speaking through it.

• 41:52Speaker 01

  I guess not through a translator, but through subtitles, but he was clearly, you know, still very upset about this and it scarred him to see this woman floating in the tank and he knew immediately who it was. And called down to the, the hotel manager who we've been talking about. And said, you know, she's, she's up here in the tank. And, you know, the cops came, they, they found her clothes, which were determined to be the same clothes she was wearing in the elevator video, kind of at the bottom of the tank they had sunk. And, you know, immediately the new mystery is not what's going on in this video, although, you know, that played a part because they were still trying to figure that out as far as foul play goes, but was how she made it in here and, and why she made it in there.

• 42:38Josh Clark?

  Yeah, because she, she, it was like the hatch is not easy to get in or out of, they had to like cut her out of the, they had to cut a hole in the bottom of the tank so they could access it, right? They couldn't just pull her back out of that hatch. So that's kind of weird in and of itself. She's also nude. That also kind of added to the mystery of the whole thing. And then also the, you know, the coroner, when, when he made his, his toxicology report available, he basically said it was, he wasn't able to make any conclusive, find any conclusive results because there wasn't enough blood to take a sample from. You know, she had just kind of permeated the water in that her blood had.

• 43:23Josh Clark?

  And it wasn't, you just couldn't like take a water sample and be like, oh yeah, there's no, you know, there's no drugs in here or anything like that. So all of that combined really kind of

• 43:35Josh Clark?

  just, just took that mystery. You know, that people had been primed to start thinking about with that video and then just blew it through the, the roof, you know, I mean, the, the, the water being, you know, going to other people's taps in the hotel and you know, Elisa Lam basically being a part of that water really kind of solidified her legendary status or the legendary status of her mystery, I think in people's imagination. Anybody who comes across that case can't help but like, let the mind wander in that respect.

• 44:06Speaker 01

  Oh, for sure. I mean, the idea of drinking water and bathing in water with a decomposing body. I mean, the body had, was in a pretty, pretty rough state of decomposition at that point. They did do, obviously in the autopsy, they didn't find any signs of foul play. There were no, obviously no like obvious wounds. There were no internal wounds. There was no strangulation. They, they pretty much said this doesn't look like foul play at all. The one, one of the mysteries was how she got up there.

• 44:38Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 44:39Speaker 01

  Because you, if you want to go just through the regular staircase to the rooftop, and this is not a rooftop that you, you know, doesn't have like a rooftop hangout area or whatever, although people, you know, there was plenty of graffiti and beer bottles and drug needles and some people would make their way up there, but if you go through the regular door, it's one of the alarm doors which would trigger downstairs and all throughout the lobby. That never came on and you have to have a key to disable it, but there is a fire escape entry with the ladder basically for the last, like for the last story. It's a little precarious.

• 45:15Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 45:15Speaker 01

  But she, she could have just simply gone out the window to the fire escape and climbed up the ladder and then up the ladder to the tanks. It's not, you know, it's a little, it would be a little bit of a scary trip up that ladder, I think.

• 45:29Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 45:30Speaker 01

  But considering what happened, she, she clearly was, was not in a good place mentally. So I think that's completely believable.

• 45:38Josh Clark?

  That journalist Josh Dean went in, I think, 2015 to see the Cecil himself. He had gotten obsessed with the, the case. So he went and kind of investigated it in person. And he quickly found that open window was still open. And the, the fire escape was easily accessible and in the, I think one of his articles is called American Horror Story, which is a reference to what I think the hotel season of American Horror Story was based on or inspired by Elisa Lam's disappearance. But there's a picture that he took of that ladder leading from the fire escape on the 15th or 14th floor up to the roof.

• 46:23Josh Clark?

  And all you see is up, like you just see the ladder and then above it is sky. But after reading about it, your imagination just thinks of like the 15 stories behind you. Like as you're, you know, as you're looking up this ladder. It's one of the most unsettling pictures I've ever seen. If you read the text, you know, that surround it. But he said, by his judgment, an average person could easily make it up that ladder, especially if you don't look down.

• 46:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:53Josh Clark?

  He said, if you're carrying a body or another person, you could not do it. He said, it just would be too difficult.

• 46:59Speaker 01

  And you know, it's one of those straight up vertical ladders on the side of the building.

• 47:02Josh Clark?

  Yeah. But if you were in a manic state, as a lot of people believe Elisa Lam was, you could probably make it up that ladder pretty quickly and you wouldn't even necessarily consider looking down and all of a sudden you'd be on the roof. And after you were on the roof, it would be a fairly easy proposition to get into one of those tanks, especially I think she weighed about 115 pounds and was about five feet, four inches. So it was possible for her to get into one of those tanks through that hatch. But either she was too scared to come out conceivably or she couldn't get out when she wanted to get out and tired of treading water because the water would have been about eight feet deep and drowned after a while.

• 47:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, they did. I think the police dogs did pick up her scent near that window. So that seems to be what happened. And, you know, this is one of those cases where the more I read, like, all I could feel was despair about this poor woman having what looked to be some sort of medication-related manic episode, maybe scared, maybe thinking someone was following her and trying to get away and going at great lengths, going to great lengths to maybe hide somewhere, like inside of a water tank. I don't know, like, why her clothes were off, or why her clothes ended up in the tank. I'm not saying any of this makes

• 48:28Speaker 01

  sense, but it is something that could happen. And all I can think about is what an awful place that she must have been for something like this to have happened.

• 48:38Josh Clark?

  Yeah. And I mean, to kind of back up the, the, the mental break theory, which is what I buy, that's, that's where I put my stock. She, remember, I said she was originally put in a room with a couple other girls she didn't know at the Stay On Main. They complained about her behaving strangely. So she was moved to her own private room. Apparently, she went to a taping of the Conan O'Brien show and was escorted out because she was behaving strangely. And then detectives also found she was on four different medications

• 49:16Josh Clark?

  for bipolar one disorder and depression. And the LAPD, based on the, the, the prescription dates on the bottles, and then the number of pills that were left, and the instructions on the bottles, the LAPD were able to determine that she hadn't been following the, the dosage recommendations, or taking her pills or medication. So if you put all of that together, and then also that people taking their clothes off as part of a psychotic episode happens, it's been documented. You, like, there's no, there's no pieces missing on the table. Like, she could have gone out on that fire escape, gone up the ladder. Like, there's nothing that

• 50:00Josh Clark?

  is, well, yeah, but then there's this really big thing that remains unexplained. Like, it explains absolutely everything. And then suddenly, it kind of makes all the other stuff, like government mind control, or ghosts, or whatever, seem just kind of gross, you know?

• 50:16Speaker 01

  Totally agree. I believe her parents brought a lawsuit against the hotel that was eventually dismissed, if I'm not mistaken. And it just remains a very, very sad situation and a sad case. And, and it is very annoying when you get online and everyone thinks that their spirit's being conjured and, and all this wacky stuff. It's just not the case.

• 50:40Josh Clark?

  Not the case, indeed. You got anything else?

• 50:42Speaker 01

  I got nothing else.

• 50:43Josh Clark?

  Well, that's it for the Cecil Hotel and Elisa Lamb, R.I.P. And since I said R.I.P., that means it's time for a listener mail.

• 50:54Speaker 01

  I'm gonna call this follow up to Y2K.

• 50:57Josh Clark?

  Oh, yes.

• 50:58Speaker 01

  And this is something that we actually had in our notes, that we, I guess, just kind of failed to bring up.

• 51:06Josh Clark?

  Yeah, yeah. I mean, you had it in your notes as well?

• 51:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, the 2038 problem. We got a lot of emails about this. And, and we're not going to fully probably explain to everyone's satisfaction how it works. But, hey, guys, just got done listening to the Y2K podcast, which brought back an interesting range of memories of living through that time. In case you weren't aware, there's something called the Unix Y2K problem that still exists, but is slowly being fixed by smart people behind the scenes.

• 51:36Josh Clark?

  Thank goodness.

• 51:36Speaker 01

  The majority of computers in the world run Unix-based operating systems, not Windows or Mac OS. And unless these systems are patched, at 3:14 on January 19, 2038, their clocks will roll over to think it's midnight, January 1, 1970.

• 51:55Josh Clark?

  Yes.

• 51:56Speaker 01

  The cause is basically the same. In the early versions of the OS, only had so much memory allocated to time representations, but more modern versions now have this fixed, and hence, computers aren't susceptible once they're updated or upgraded, although not all systems can be easily updated. And that is from a bunch of people, but specifically from PhD Alan Chalker.

• 52:19Josh Clark?

  That's great. Thanks, Alan, and everybody who wrote in. I was like, oh, man, I meant to include that. But apparently Unix represents time as the number of seconds from the epoch date, which is some date in 1970. And then eventually, it's going to have more seconds than it can represent in the number of digits. So it'll just roll back over, like you were saying, which is pretty neat.

• 52:41Speaker 01

  Come on, Unix?

• 52:42Josh Clark?

  Pretty cool. But also, I'm glad to hear that there are smart people working on that, because we got 17 years, man. You guys, take it easy. Take a weekend, you know?

• 52:52Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 52:53Josh Clark?

  Go, go sit in your house and social distance from everybody.

• 52:58Speaker 01

  That's right. We also got a lot of emails just from people that, some people whose parents helped rewrite code, or were heading up projects rewriting code. And it was, it was pretty cool. We got a lot of, a lot of emails about that one. It struck a chord.

• 53:10Josh Clark?

  Yeah, it was a good idea, Chuck. Well, if you want to get in touch with us, like Alan and everybody else did, you can send us an email. Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota Fordability. And it starts with a great deal on an off-road-ready Tacoma or half-ton Tundra, two of Toyota's longest-lasting trucks, combining power for work, tech for adventures, and style in between. And they're built on a reputation for quality and reliability, which is why Toyota trucks are known for holding their value, which could mean big savings when it's time for your next Toyota. So get a great deal today and a great value tomorrow. Shop toyota.com for more. Toyota, let's go places.

• 53:53Speaker 03

  Welcome to the Haunted Library. Have you come in search of a tale? This podcast invites you to browse the shelves and find stories that will linger long after you've left this place. From Gothic masterpieces to poppy penny dreadfuls, join me, Colin Morgan, with new episodes twice a week. Find the Haunted Library wherever you get your podcasts.

• 54:19Speaker 06

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.