Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 19: Nineteen Kills and Counting

It's time to Rewind with Karen & Georgia! This week, K & G recap Episode 19: Nineteen Kills and Counting when Georgia covered the Freeway Phantom and Karen detailed the crimes of Anders Behring Breivk. Listen for all-new commentary, case updates and much more!

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  This is exactly right.

• 0:06Speaker 01

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• 0:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Everyone loves the idea of spending an afternoon curled up with a good book.

• 0:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, grow up because it's almost impossible.

• 0:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Luckily, you can take your next great story with you on Audible.

• 0:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Audible has a massive selection of titles to choose from, including This American Life, new books by Michael Connelly, along with classics from Magga the Christie, and so much more.

• 0:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Whether you want a mystery, a true crime story, or something completely different, there's always something new to listen to.

• 0:59Karen Kilgariff?

  New members can start listening with a 30-day free trial at audible.com/mfm.

• 1:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Audible, stories that speak to you.

• 1:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye.

• 1:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Hello. And welcome.

• 1:26Georgia Hardstark?

  To Rewind with Karen in Georgia.

• 1:29Karen Kilgariff?

  If you don't know, this is our extra Wednesday podcast where we go and revisit our earliest episodes. We react to what we used to be like, and we give you any case updates that we might have for the stories that we tell you.

• 1:43Georgia Hardstark?

  And today, we're rewinding to episode 19, which came out on Thursday, June 2, 2016, called 19 Kills and Counting, which I didn't get for a second because it's been so long since that show.

• 1:55Karen Kilgariff?

  I still don't get it.

• 1:56Georgia Hardstark?

  19 Kids and Counting? Wasn't that the Duggar TV show?

• 2:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, yeah. This is a Duggar reference episode. It's a disaster from the beginning.

• 2:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Right from the start.

• 2:08Karen Kilgariff?

  So now it's time for you to grab a glass of water, and the person who cut your hair, and your favorite cuddle buddy, and you can all listen along because now, because of Rewind, we can all be day one listeners.

• 2:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, let's listen to the intro of episode 19.

• 2:26Speaker 04

  This is recording now?

• 2:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Am I gonna, am I gonna really annoy you if I keep telling you not to hold that part of this?

• 2:34Speaker 04

  Oh, no, you're, I need it.

• 2:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Is it gonna annoy you, though? I feel like at some point, you're gonna be like, "Yah! I'm gonna murder you!"

• 2:40Speaker 04

  Let's plan out our first fight now. Um...

• 2:44Georgia Hardstark?

  I'll cry, start crying immediately.

• 2:47Speaker 04

  I feel like anytime we've even come within thirty miles of the slightest fight, we have a total talk down.

• 2:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, you're gonna be like, "I wanna talk to you about something."

• 2:55Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 2:56Georgia Hardstark?

  I like that.

• 2:57Speaker 04

  Did I say that?

• 2:58Georgia Hardstark?

  No, that, I, we both, yeah.

• 2:59Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 3:00Georgia Hardstark?

  No, I like that. I think it's because we started our friendship at a place of vulnerability.

• 3:03Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 3:04Georgia Hardstark?

  By talking about, literally, being vulnerable.

• 3:08Speaker 04

  That's right. And also, when I think about being in a fight with you, it makes me immediately wanna start crying. I'm just like, I can't have it. I just can't. I'll do anything to make sure it doesn't happen.

• 3:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Yay! That's, makes, I'm gonna do so much shit now. Now that I know I have fucking carte blanche to-

• 3:25Speaker 04

  Free rein!

• 3:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Fuck with you?

• 3:28Speaker 04

  Well, I will, I'm not saying I won't very firmly confront you.

• 3:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. It's not a fight if you're just screaming at me.

• 3:37Speaker 04

  If I scream, you're down into a corner.

• 3:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, that's not technically a fight. If it's one punch and I'm out, that's not a fight.

• 3:44Speaker 04

  Some of my favorite fights, cuz I, I do the Irish thing where I won't say anything.

• 3:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 3:48Speaker 04

  And then, all of a sudden, I'm out. I'll just be Irish goodbye you.

• 3:52Georgia Hardstark?

  I think I know that, and that's why I'm like, that's what I'm scared of.

• 3:57Speaker 04

  Right. Which, but, that's why I'm saying I'll be very, I'll, I'll be, I'll, total conversations at the jump, at the slightest thing.

• 4:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 4:07Speaker 04

  That's why I'll always be like, "Here's how I feel, here's my thing, and here's my, I need you to know my thing."

• 4:12Georgia Hardstark?

  We're adults and we know our things by now.

• 4:14Speaker 04

  Yep. You gotta say your thing. It's, I, you know what? It's only fair that you give the other person a chance. You say, "Here's the thing," and the other, give the other person a chance to at least go-

• 4:26Georgia Hardstark?

  And you'll know by their response whether or not there's someone that you can have a lifelong relationship with, or at least for the next few weeks. Until they do it again.

• 4:36Speaker 04

  Until our podcast gets out of the top ten. Are we out already? We must be.

• 4:41Georgia Hardstark?

  We're not. I checked today. Excuse me. That was loud.

• 4:47Speaker 04

  That was the best reaction.

• 4:49Georgia Hardstark?

  No, it's so good. We're still, you guys are in the top 10 iTunes comedy podcasts. We were number one a week ago. I'm disappointed in you guys. No, I'm not. I love you.

• 4:57Speaker 04

  Don't say that.

• 4:59Georgia Hardstark?

  So, do we, maybe the reason we're not number one anymore is because we haven't, nobody knows what podcasts is.

• 5:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Hey, This is My Favorite Murder.

• 5:06Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah. This is My Favorite Murder, starring Georgia Hardstark.

• 5:10Georgia Hardstark?

  And Karen Kilgariff.

• 5:11Speaker 04

  We say each other's names. If that, if you're trying to figure out who's talking, I always say Georgia Hardstark. It's like a cute, I think it's things, people do it on the radio a lot.

• 5:21Georgia Hardstark?

  It's cute. Did you?

• 5:23Speaker 04

  It's cute.

• 5:23Georgia Hardstark?

  So on our, on our fucking storied famed Facebook group that everyone loves.

• 5:29Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 5:30Georgia Hardstark?

  That has 11,000.

• 5:32Speaker 04

  Holy, 11? The last, the last time I looked, it was nine.

• 5:36Georgia Hardstark?

  11,000 people in it.

• 5:37Speaker 04

  Bro.

• 5:38Georgia Hardstark?

  And they're all cool. Somehow, they're all fucking cool.

• 5:40Speaker 04

  Because everybody gets that everybody else wants everybody to be cool.

• 5:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. And when they're not cool and they like go to talking to, they're like, I'm sorry, cool. Someone, our last names are Killhard together.

• 5:52Speaker 04

  Oh, fuck, yeah. Hardkill.

• 5:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Hardstark and Kilgariff.

• 5:55Speaker 04

  I like that a lot. That's, they are kind of badass-y murder names.

• 6:00Georgia Hardstark?

  It's almost like fucking fate.

• 6:03Speaker 04

  It's fucking fate.

• 6:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Hardkill. That's the name of our TV show.

• 6:06Speaker 04

  That's a good idea. The Hardkill.

• 6:09Georgia Hardstark?

  The Hardkill. The book we write together about.

• 6:13Speaker 04

  I feel like if we do The Hardkill, we should both dress up as, like, we should dress up like kind of 70s news anchors.

• 6:21Georgia Hardstark?

  I was gonna think you were gonna say spy versus spy.

• 6:24Speaker 04

  And try to kill each other. But we have to be vulnerable about it and really discuss it.

• 6:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, and like sad.

• 6:29Speaker 04

  I feel like I want to come at you with the naive, but.

• 6:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Hardkill is definitely 70s anchorwoman.

• 6:35Speaker 04

  Yeah. We're like, we have bows at the neck and.

• 6:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Feathered hair. You have feathered hair, you, because you already have this great, you would be feathered hair. I'll do like a Mary Lou Retton bowl cut.

• 6:45Speaker 04

  Oh, my god.

• 6:46Georgia Hardstark?

  How great would that?

• 6:47Speaker 04

  God, Hardkill. Let's do this thing.

• 6:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Are any, is anyone listening who wants to make a TV show for us?

• 6:54Speaker 04

  We're specifically talking about FXX. If anyone from FXX is listening, we just call out. Well, you know what? That's how they do it on The Secret. You just ask for what you want to the universe or, you know.

• 7:08Georgia Hardstark?

  To podcast listeners.

• 7:10Speaker 04

  I just sit in at work today, everybody had a conversation about how they don't understand what podcasts are. And they don't understand why they're popular. And I just sit there like, like with my dirty secret that I have two podcasts. And they're not around.

• 7:25Georgia Hardstark?

  You fucking, they bring you joy. Like you don't even just have them.

• 7:28Speaker 04

  I almost at one point said, it's kind of like if you could control the radio.

• 7:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, it's a radio show.

• 7:34Speaker 04

  It's a radio, if you liked what you were listening to on the radio, that's kind of what it's like.

• 7:38Georgia Hardstark?

  It's a radio show and there are various topics all that span everything and you're always going to find one you're interested in.

• 7:46Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's basically if, do you like two dudes just interrupting each other? They've got that.

• 7:51Georgia Hardstark?

  They've got a lot of that.

• 7:53Speaker 04

  They've got that. Do you like two grown women who talk like they're in junior high about murder?

• 7:58Georgia Hardstark?

  We're here.

• 7:59Speaker 04

  We've got, hello and welcome.

• 8:01Georgia Hardstark?

  That's us. Nobody knew that you had two podcasts?

• 8:05Speaker 04

  Well, Kreisel knows, my boss knows, but he wasn't saying anything.

• 8:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, he was like keeping your secret.

• 8:11Speaker 04

  And Fred knows because he's been on one of them.

• 8:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 8:14Speaker 04

  But he was just, it was just everybody kind of, I had that exact same feeling before I started listening to podcasts. I was like, why would anyone want to listen to stand up comics talking? That's all I've listened to for the past 20 years of my life. It's so boring unless you're really shitfaced.

• 8:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Or just NPR. Nobody likes fucking, never mind. I'm not going to talk shit on them.

• 8:36Speaker 04

  Yeah, let's not be show talkers. I, what I do like is cool music jams. That's how I usually spend my time if I'm going to just listen to something.

• 8:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Not me. Fucking audiobook.

• 8:48Speaker 04

  You're all about that.

• 8:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Break.

• 8:50Speaker 04

  But then, you know, when the first couple of times I listen to podcasts driving home to San Francisco on the five.

• 8:56Georgia Hardstark?

  You fall asleep.

• 8:56Speaker 04

  God bless. No, it got, it makes the ride feel like it's an hour long.

• 9:01Georgia Hardstark?

  I have a friend who was on a fucking road trip with her boyfriend this weekend texting me. We're listening. We're on episode 12.

• 9:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 9:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Like, totally into it.

• 9:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Don't you love there was a couple of people who are sending, um, who are posting on the Facebook page, "Why don't you guys have an episode 12?"

• 9:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Do we?

• 9:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, it turns out, we do. That's "Our Bodies, Our Twelves."

• 9:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, yeah.

• 9:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Um, another, a great title. I'll say it myself. But, uh, I was immediately like, "Oh, shoot." We should, because of when we misnumbered the other ones.

• 9:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, yeah.

• 9:34Karen Kilgariff?

  When we thought 15 was 16. Um, I assumed that they were right immediately, but it was some weird thing with-

• 9:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Glitch?

• 9:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. It was an iTunes glitch or something glitch.

• 9:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, we're back.

• 9:50Karen Kilgariff?

  And we're back.

• 9:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Should we discuss this topic of having our first fight? Should we open that can of worms?

• 9:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, hey, look. I mean, that, first of all, that mistake that I did make with the microphone, which I made almost every episode for like, maybe the first 20, 30, I don't know. But it was, I didn't really listen back often, but when I did, I was just like, "What is happening?" And it was me just jiggling the mic as I was talking, right?

• 10:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, I don't, I don't, I totally don't remember. And we held microphones, we were, they were handheld for so long.

• 10:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 10:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Way longer than we should have, way longer than most podcasts know to do.

• 10:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 10:35Georgia Hardstark?

  So it's inevitable that there's gonna be, you know, outside noises that happen.

• 10:40Karen Kilgariff?

  There's gonna be some issues.

• 10:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. I think for some reason, I'm really susceptible to noises. I'm not for some reason, it's because I'm fucking, have anxiety. But I'm really aware of like little noises that could be in the background, more so than other people. So I'm always the like, "Hold for sound" person, even though I'm not the sound person, you know? Or like, "Do you guys hear that? We should, we should pause." So I think I'm just hyper aware of that.

• 11:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. You have a sensitivity toward it?

• 11:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 11:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Whereas I clearly am completely deaf to it. And I'm like, I not only don't know what you're talking about, I'm not doing it.

• 11:10Georgia Hardstark?

  It's not your job, you know?

• 11:11Karen Kilgariff?

  It's not my job. And also, I'm, I just will flatly deny that it's happening. And then listen back to the episode and just be like, "That's so distracting and so irritating."

• 11:20Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm sorry we have sound people now. What's up, guys?

• 11:23Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, here's the thing. We finally started releasing on one day.

• 11:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 11:26Karen Kilgariff?

  And we got that cadence correct. You can't expect us to also have good sound. Come on.

• 11:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. It's only episode 19. But the thing is, we already have 11,000 people in the Facebook group by then.

• 11:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 11:39Georgia Hardstark?

  That's a lot for 19 episodes.

• 11:41Karen Kilgariff?

  It is.

• 11:41Georgia Hardstark?

  That happened quick, too.

• 11:42Karen Kilgariff?

  It went fast.

• 11:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 11:43Karen Kilgariff?

  The whole fucking thing went really fast, but we start to become aware that other people are aware of us and don't like it. And that was very strange.

• 11:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 11:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Because it's almost, suddenly it's the, we're being observed. And of course, that changes something inherently.

• 11:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Absolutely.

• 12:00Karen Kilgariff?

  And that idea of like, somebody's saying, we're making fun of murder, which we're like, no, we're not. But then...

• 12:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, that's the thing is like, they're saying they don't like it. They don't like the idea of it.

• 12:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Right.

• 12:11Georgia Hardstark?

  They've never listened to it, which we completely understand.

• 12:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 12:15Georgia Hardstark?

  True crime and comedy together, those words don't make sense together.

• 12:19Karen Kilgariff?

  And we are flippant about it. So there's, it's like...

• 12:23Georgia Hardstark?

  And we also don't give a fuck if you haven't listened and you don't like it.

• 12:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Right. But like, in those early days, you know, we've listened back. It's a harsh listen to go like, oh, yeah, we shouldn't have said that. We shouldn't have said it that way. We should have had a kind of a more meta-awareness of what we were doing and other people listening to it, you know? But we just, we didn't, because we are just regular people that were talking into microphones.

• 12:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. But what we learned is to take the true crime part seriously and the comedy part around it. And it's always explained to someone who's like, what do you do? And then I tell them about the podcast. I'm like, okay, but we don't, the comedy is not the story part. The comedy is that, you know, we have this anxiety around the idea that these things happen in our society and they're terrifying. And our way of coping with horror and terror and fear is through laughing together.

• 13:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Right.

• 13:15Georgia Hardstark?

  And humor.

• 13:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Yep.

• 13:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Not about, it's not about the stories we're telling of the victims or the, you know, horrible things that are happening.

• 13:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. I also think that awareness is, then suddenly the focus becomes, how are we being criticized? As opposed to all the other people who get it. Because there's all these people who get it and are showing up to say they get it. And I'm so happy to hear, like, this being discussed, the way you're discussing it. There's plenty of people doing that. But those people disappear when someone comes and says you're a bad person.

• 13:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 13:47Karen Kilgariff?

  It's a very, very strange kind of like, that awareness, I'll never get over it, because it's just so weird. You're being perceived and you're being judged. And people think you're a bad person. There's nothing you can do about it.

• 14:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Except for the day or the episode 19 listeners, those people are not judging us.

• 14:06Karen Kilgariff?

  No.

• 14:06Georgia Hardstark?

  We appreciate you.

• 14:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Never. Also, the idea that I was talking about my job at the time. So Erin put this together and she, her theory is that I worked on Portlandia because I was telling stories about my boss, John Kreisel, and Fred Armisen. But I think that's also the funniest thing of working on that show. And at one point, transitioning from that show to a second show.

• 14:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 14:31Karen Kilgariff?

  But doing this podcast the entire time. It was just like the most exhausting, insane. And I was just like, oh, I can't quit any of these things.

• 14:40Georgia Hardstark?

  You can't, yeah.

• 14:41Karen Kilgariff?

  I can't quit anything.

• 14:42Georgia Hardstark?

  All of them are like, you can't, not yet.

• 14:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Keep all these chips on the table. It was wild. It was a wild time. And also then it's like you're doing, I had to do homework on top of that homework. But I don't like homework. We've talked about this.

• 14:56Georgia Hardstark?

  I know. But do you think you're a workaholic, kind of?

• 14:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Absolutely.

• 15:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Do you think you'd be like one of those 1950s absent dads who has like a bachelor apartment in the, in the city because he just is at work all day?

• 15:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, I think I would have like a one main family and two secret families. I wouldn't be able to get away.

• 15:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Cause you need the work.

• 15:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, I need it. I need it. I need the drama and the problems. But also I think it's just that when you like move to LA because you think you're going to be in show business and you have one idea of what show business is, you have no fucking clue what show business is. And what show business is, is fucking 16 hour days. Do you want to be in this or not? Because we can get somebody else that, you know, will replace you in one day. Like, it is

• 15:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Constant hustle.

• 15:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Tough. It is, it is a tough business. So that was my thing always was like, I gotta pay these bills and I gotta keep it going.

• 15:47Georgia Hardstark?

  And it's like you're throwing all these, you have all these pans in the fire? Is that what they say? Because you don't know what's going to like, create the biggest fucking explosion. I don't know where this is coming from, but you have no idea. Is it gonna be Portlandia, which obviously that's huge in itself, but it's like, but you still have to think of what's next because

• 16:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 16:06Georgia Hardstark?

  There's only eight episodes. What are you doing after that?

• 16:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Exactly. When that run is done, you immediately, you have to do such a good job that people recommend you for your next job. And this is, now we're talking 2016 era. The rooms are so much smaller now. There's so many fewer writing jobs now. It's rough. I mean, it's crazy. But then also the idea that my pan in the fire. Of a podcast with my friend Georgia that I'd met True Crime Comedy. Six months prior. It's wild. All right. So Georgia goes first on this episode. So here is her story about the so-called freeway phantom.

• 16:49Speaker 01

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• 17:19Georgia Hardstark?

  The holidays are coming, which means we'll all be spending more time away from home.

• 17:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Whether you're visiting family or doing something actually fun, you want to know your home is protected while you're away.

• 17:29Georgia Hardstark?

  That's why now is a good time to think about home security with SimpliSafe.

• 17:32Karen Kilgariff?

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• 17:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, I really think that's invaluable peace of mind that just like relying on your neighbors, paying attention is not going to give you. We've partnered with SimpliSafe to offer our listeners their biggest savings of the year. 70% off your new system with professional monitoring when you visit simplisafe.com/mfm.

• 18:15Karen Kilgariff?

  That's simplisafe.com/mfm. And when you order, write in MFM at checkout and it tells them we sent you and it really helps the show.

• 18:23Georgia Hardstark?

  SimpliSafe, ahead of crime in real time.

• 18:26Karen Kilgariff?

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• 19:09Karen Kilgariff?

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• 19:16Speaker 04

  Okay, you're first this week.

• 19:18Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm first this week, okay.

• 19:20Speaker 04

  Let's get down to business. I don't wanna mess around. What is this?

• 19:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Ooh.

• 19:26Speaker 04

  Something circus in town.

• 19:29Georgia Hardstark?

  We're gonna get deep into this shit. Are you guys ready for our favorite murders? Wait.

• 19:34Speaker 04

  Yes, we are.

• 19:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Where the fuck is my favorite?

• 19:36Speaker 04

  We love murder.

• 19:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my god, I thought mine was deleted from my...

• 19:39Speaker 04

  Oh, my god.

• 19:40Georgia Hardstark?

  All right. I've never heard of this one.

• 19:43Speaker 04

  Uh-oh.

• 19:45Georgia Hardstark?

  The Freeway Phantom Killer?

• 19:47Speaker 04

  Aw, shit, y'all.

• 19:49Georgia Hardstark?

  You heard of this one?

• 19:49Speaker 04

  I don't know.

• 19:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, man.

• 19:51Speaker 04

  I don't think so.

• 19:51Georgia Hardstark?

  This is some fucked up shit. And here's what I was thinking. I don't wanna... I want to not only do white women like Martha Moxley getting killed.

• 20:02Speaker 04

  Right.

• 20:02Georgia Hardstark?

  But I don't wanna do that. I found this one and I'm like, "I've never heard of this." And it's a fucking serial killer. Four six young girls

• 20:10Speaker 04

  Ugh.

• 20:11Georgia Hardstark?

  gotten murdered in the same area.

• 20:13Speaker 04

  Are they women of color?

• 20:14Georgia Hardstark?

  They are all black women.

• 20:15Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's fucking... Yeah.

• 20:17Georgia Hardstark?

  And it's tragic. It's the... I'll get into it. All right, here we go.

• 20:22Georgia Hardstark?

  So...

• 20:25Georgia Hardstark?

  The Freeway Phantom was a name given to an unidentified serial killer known to have abducted, raped, and strangled six female youths in the Washington DC area from April 1971 through September 1972. So it's not even a fucking year.

• 20:42Speaker 04

  No.

• 20:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Which immediately makes you think he got arrested right afterwards or moved on.

• 20:48Speaker 04

  Oh, because they don't know who it is?

• 20:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, yeah, unidentified still.

• 20:52Speaker 04

  Oh, sorry.

• 20:52Georgia Hardstark?

  No, it's fine. I... It's fine, I have some suspects.

• 20:58Georgia Hardstark?

  The victims were all African American girls between the ages of 10 and 18.

• 21:03Speaker 04

  No, no.

• 21:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Sweet baby angels. Okay, so the first one was in April 1971. 13 year old Carol Spinks was sent by her sister to go to a 7-Eleven located half a mile away from her home, which is like what you do back then. You go walk, and 13, that's like old enough.

• 21:22Speaker 04

  Oh, so old. We used to walk to the store, the corner store, which is like easily a half a mile away. Every single day from when I was like six years old.

• 21:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, we used to, we used to jaywalk on one of the busiest streets. Like encouraged to jaywalk to the store across the street.

• 21:37Speaker 04

  Just cut across the street.

• 21:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, just run fast.

• 21:40Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 21:40Georgia Hardstark?

  You fucking idiot.

• 21:43Georgia Hardstark?

  On her way home from the store, Carol was abducted and her body was found six days later on a grassy embankment next to the northbound lanes of the I-295.

• 21:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Over a month later, in July, Darlene Johnson, was 16, was abducted while on her way to a summer job at a recreation center. 11 days later, her body was discovered 15 feet from where Spinks had been found. So again, on the freeway, near the freeway.

• 22:12Georgia Hardstark?

  In July 1971, little 10 year old Brenda Crockett failed to return home after having been seen, sent to the store by her mother again. Three hours after, okay, here's this interesting, three hours after Brenda was last seen, because they were immediately like this, she should have come home.

• 22:27Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 22:28Georgia Hardstark?

  The phone rang and it was answered by her seven year old sister, who was waiting at home to see if she'd come home while her family was searching the neighborhood. Brenda was on the line crying and she said, "A white man picked me up and I'm heading home in a cab." And then she added that she believed she was in Virginia before abruptly saying bye and hanging up.

• 22:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Where?

• 22:52Speaker 04

  What?

• 22:52Georgia Hardstark?

  A short time later.

• 22:53Speaker 04

  Wait, sorry, if it's 1971, how's she calling from being, how is she calling from a cab?

• 22:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. There's a lot of inconsistencies. Well, let's, I want to hear your opinion on this, yeah.

• 23:02Speaker 04

  Okay, I'm, I, this, this sucks.

• 23:05Georgia Hardstark?

  I know, I'm sorry.

• 23:05Speaker 04

  No, no, no, I just.

• 23:06Georgia Hardstark?

  I mean, I guess.

• 23:07Speaker 04

  I feel like I can see them in my head.

• 23:09Georgia Hardstark?

  I do too. A short time later, the phone rang again, and this time it was answered by the boyfriend of Brenda's mother. It was Brenda again, and she repeated what she said to her sister, and then said, "Did my mother see me?" And he asked, "How could she see you when you're in Virginia?" And the boyfriend also said, "Tell the man to come to the phone and tell me where you're at, and I'll come get you." The boyfriend then heard heavy footsteps in the background, and Brenda said, "I'll see you," and the line went dead. A few hours later, Brenda was found by a hitchhiker on Route 50, near the I-295, in a place where she couldn't be missed. She had been raped and strangled, and a scarf is knotted around her neck.

• 23:54Georgia Hardstark?

  What, what is... The thing, "Did my mom see me?" makes me think she like drove by the house in this person's car. Like somehow, it was someone they knew.

• 24:12Georgia Hardstark?

  You know what I mean?

• 24:12Speaker 04

  Right.

• 24:13Georgia Hardstark?

  And the whole, it was a white man was maybe, and I'm coming home was maybe a... The killer told her that, told her to say that to throw them off. Because I bet they didn't expect them to start searching for her so quickly.

• 24:24Speaker 04

  Right.

• 24:25Georgia Hardstark?

  So, maybe she was in the neighborhood.

• 24:27Speaker 04

  I wonder, like, why would he let her?

• 24:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 24:30Speaker 04

  Use the phone? Was she on drugs, or drugged in some way?

• 24:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 24:35Speaker 04

  That she was saying weird shit? Like, you know, like, she got chloroformed, woke up, grabbed the phone?

• 24:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 24:42Speaker 04

  Something, I mean.

• 24:43Georgia Hardstark?

  But why would that happen a couple times?

• 24:46Speaker 04

  Yeah, where's, where was the guy?

• 24:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. It makes me think that it's someone she knew.

• 24:52Speaker 04

  "Did my mom see me?"

• 24:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, or maybe he... Maybe he lied to her and said, your mom sent me to come get you.

• 25:00Speaker 04

  Oh, oh, yeah. Your mom knows that you're you're getting in the car with me.

• 25:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, your mom saw what you were doing. I don't know.

• 25:08Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 25:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay. So authorities quickly concluded that Brenda's call home was at the behest of the killer. That's just their guess, you know?

• 25:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Furthermore, one witness reported having seen one of the victims, Ms. Johnson, in an old black car driven by an African American male shortly after her abduction. So then on October, in October nineteen seventy one, twelve year old

• 25:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Namoshia Yates was walking home from a Safeway store in northeast Washington DC when she was kidnapped, raped and strangled. Her body was found within a few hours of her abduction again, which is interesting that he just doesn't keep the bodies.

• 25:50Speaker 04

  Right.

• 25:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Just off the shoulder of the Pennsylvania Avenue, the shoulder of Pennsylvania Avenue in Maryland. It's after this murder that the quote freeway phantom moniker was first used in the city tablet article describing the murders. So. Um, in the last murder, it was November nineteen seventy one.

• 26:14Georgia Hardstark?

  After having dinner with a high school classmate, Brenda Woodward, eighteen, boarded a city bus to return to her home. And six hours later, police officers discovered her body stabbed and strangled in a grassy area near an access ramp to Route two oh two in the Baltimore-Washington Parkway. Okay, so here's here's a weird, oh, no, that's that's not the final victim. That's the second to final victim. I'm sorry. So a coat had been placed over her as if it was like tucking her in. And in the pockets, there was a note from the killer. It said, this is tantamount to in to my, sorry. This is tantamount to my insensitivity to people, especially women. I will admit the others when you can catch me exclamation mark.

• 26:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Signed, the freeway phantom. But he wrote free dash way, the freeway phantom. And they're saying that it looks like the note was written by the victim in her own handwriting, but I looked at the note and it looks like a fucking psychopath's handwriting. It doesn't look like her handwriting.

• 27:15Speaker 04

  Were they interpreting it as like a young person's handwriting or?

• 27:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, like that it wasn't hers, but I didn't, no, no, not a young person, just like. I don't know why they came to that conclusion and nobody, I'll tell you why, nobody knows that.

• 27:33Speaker 04

  Also, is he using the word tantamount correctly?

• 27:35Georgia Hardstark?

  That will come back around.

• 27:38Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 27:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, I know what you mean. Yeah. This is tantamount to my insensitivity to people, especially. So he's saying, this is the point, this is how, this is how much I don't like people or don't care about people, especially women.

• 27:53Speaker 04

  Right.

• 27:53Georgia Hardstark?

  That's what his point is.

• 27:55Speaker 04

  I always thought that meant, tantamount meant equivalent, though.

• 27:58Georgia Hardstark?

  That's what it means. So I think this murder of this girl is equivalent to how much I don't give a shit about people.

• 28:03Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 28:04Georgia Hardstark?

  I mean, it's not used correctly.

• 28:06Speaker 04

  Got it.

• 28:07Georgia Hardstark?

  So, September 1972.

• 28:08Speaker 04

  I don't know why I'm so worried about grammar all this time.

• 28:10Georgia Hardstark?

  No, because it actually comes back, it's an interesting word to use that one would think can be, like, in, uh, in, um, the jinx, how he spelled Beverly.

• 28:19Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 28:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Which helped to get him caught, is a fucking great clue.

• 28:24Speaker 04

  Every single thing.

• 28:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Every little.

• 28:26Speaker 04

  Can be a clue, yeah.

• 28:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Every dot of the I can, can, like, uh, can.

• 28:32Speaker 04

  Indicate something.

• 28:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Indicate or exonerate.

• 28:35Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 28:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Something.

• 28:36Speaker 04

  That's right.

• 28:37Georgia Hardstark?

  So, September 1972, the Phantom's final victim.

• 28:42Georgia Hardstark?

  So, the high school senior, Diane Williams, she had cooked dinner for her family and then visited her boyfriend's house. She was last seen boarding a bus. Again, um, and a short time later, her strangled body was discovered alongside the I, 295, just south of the district line.

• 29:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Um, so those are the murders. They, yeah. So thirty, um, the slings supposedly triggered one of the largest investigations in the region has seen. Two dozen detectives were assigned to the hunt initially and the FBI was called in until Watergate diverted the agency's manpower.

• 29:19Speaker 04

  Oh, man.

• 29:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Fucking rich politicians ruining it again.

• 29:25Speaker 04

  With their stupid bullshit.

• 29:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Yep. Is my cat kicking you?

• 29:29Speaker 04

  A little bit.

• 29:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, I'm sorry. Um, so, among the individuals considered were a gang known as the Green Vega Rapists. That's a fucking cheery name. Jesus Christ.

• 29:41Speaker 04

  Do you think they danced?

• 29:42Georgia Hardstark?

  What were they up to? Yeah, I don't know, just simple little. They played craps.

• 29:47Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 29:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Members of this gang were collectively responsible for numerous Washington DC and surrounding Maryland vicinity rapes and abductions that occurred near the Washington Beltway.

• 29:59Georgia Hardstark?

  So everyone thought it was them. One dude was like, one of the gang members, and they were all incarcerated, was like, I know, it wasn't me, I had nothing to do with it, I know who did it. If you don't say who I am, if you keep me anonymous, I'll give you information. And they were like, okay. And he was gonna identify, he identified the guy, the date and location of the crime, and a signature detail, which was not provided to the public, but which was known only to the perpetrator and to detectives, that signature information was correct.

• 30:27Georgia Hardstark?

  The inmate who provided the information says he wasn't involved, blah, blah, blah, he had an alibi, a verified alibi.

• 30:34Georgia Hardstark?

  But during this period, an election was being held in Maryland, and one of the candidates publicly announced to the press that a break had occurred in the freeway phantom investigation, and provided that an inmate at the prison where this guy was at had given information.

• 30:47Speaker 04

  No.

• 30:48Georgia Hardstark?

  After that announcement, the inmate who provided the information was like,

• 30:51Speaker 04

  Was killed?

• 30:52Georgia Hardstark?

  No, not killed, but maybe eventually, but he was like, later days, and denied that he had anything.

• 30:56Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 30:57Georgia Hardstark?

  He was just like, I'm out.

• 30:58Speaker 04

  You're rube.

• 31:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Total rube.

• 31:00Speaker 04

  You idiot politician.

• 31:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Fucking idiot. And looking through the, I don't think he, I don't think they had any, that they were involved. I don't think,

• 31:11Speaker 04

  The green, Vega rapists?

• 31:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Looking at the evidence and their, their MO, and this sounds like the work of one person. I don't think this was them. And it's like,

• 31:25Georgia Hardstark?

  raping, rape is a different crime than murdering and kidnapping, raping, murdering with bare hands, disposing of a body.

• 31:35Speaker 04

  Yeah, I would think that in gangs, like, it reminds me of like Hell's Angels or something, where they take women, they don't usually, raping a 10-year-old child is, crosses a line, even when you are a gang member, even when you are, like, pedophilia and all that kind of shit is not, that's not just standard.

• 31:52Georgia Hardstark?

  No. And,

• 31:54Speaker 04

  Activity.

• 31:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Gaining access and the trust of these girls.

• 31:59Georgia Hardstark?

  And to get, you know, he had to have gotten them in his car somehow.

• 32:03Speaker 04

  That's right.

• 32:04Georgia Hardstark?

  They had to have gone with him somehow.

• 32:05Speaker 04

  It's a, it's wolf in sheep's, sheep's clothing. If you see a gang member, if you see three gang members coming at you, fucking run. You don't get in their car.

• 32:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Even then, children are talk, don't talk to strangers.

• 32:16Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 32:16Georgia Hardstark?

  So if you see, but yeah, if you see gang members, you're not gonna fucking get in the car.

• 32:21Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 32:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Alright, so I don't think it's them. Uh, but the case is still open, as we said. So fucked up.

• 32:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Let's see here. Alright, so, and there's not, the last article I could find from any of this was from 2013. So, and at that time, alright, let's, here we go. So, the DC police detective, James Trainum, he's kind of the dude now who's like, I'm gonna try to, or was like 2006. He's like, I'm gonna get this sucker.

• 32:53Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 32:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Um, and a lucky hit on DNA sample could change all that. So here, but here's the fucking thing. Everything got law, everything got lost or destroyed. All of the fucking evidence.

• 33:06Speaker 04

  What?

• 33:06Georgia Hardstark?

  And that's why that note, you, there's a photo of it, but you know, there's no way to test it. Everything got thrown away and destroyed.

• 33:16Speaker 04

  No.

• 33:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Yep. But the good news is that because it was in different districts, they were able to find a DNA sample from a district that, not the main district.

• 33:26Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 33:26Georgia Hardstark?

  So Maryland has, uh, Maryland State Police have a sample. Found on Williams, one of the girls who was killed, and they had never tested it because they, because she was leaving her boyfriend's. So they figured that she had had sex with her boyfriend that night, so they never fucking tested the DNA.

• 33:43Speaker 04

  What? Why wouldn't they ask her?

• 33:46Georgia Hardstark?

  She was dead.

• 33:47Speaker 04

  Oh, oh my god, I'm so sorry. Oh my.

• 33:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Ask him.

• 33:52Speaker 04

  Ask him.

• 33:55Speaker 04

  I forgot what podcast I was on.

• 33:59Speaker 04

  Oh, my god.

• 33:59Georgia Hardstark?

  They did ask him and he said they didn't have sex.

• 34:03Speaker 04

  I, it's so irritating. Like, anytime you talk about like, police making assumptions, I just, my mind goes to like, what?

• 34:13Georgia Hardstark?

  And this is why people, I don't want to like, I don't want to just fucking bury all the cops in this, in everything because this is how stuff was done back then.

• 34:23Speaker 04

  This was how stuff was done, that's right.

• 34:25Georgia Hardstark?

  And it seems like they did put a lot of work into it, but if you ask the families, which there's a lot of interviews from the families, they fucking didn't, and the families are like, it's because if these were all blonde, white women, this would have been solved.

• 34:38Speaker 04

  That's exactly right.

• 34:39Georgia Hardstark?

  And, you know, you can't help but believe that.

• 34:42Speaker 04

  Well, of course, of course, that's true. Of course, it is. We've, that's just been tested out time and again. But the other thing is, that the, the attitude of these cops is like, immediately, you're, you're the victim of a crime, you're dead, you've been murdered, and suddenly it's like, oh, she fucked her boy.

• 35:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 35:02Speaker 04

  There is, you can hear the slut shaming through the years. And you, and you just know that that's, they were, it makes me crazy, it's just like, not treating people with respect, even in death.

• 35:16Georgia Hardstark?

  I agree, and this is why I wanted to do this, this is why when I was looking for the next one, I was like, I've never fucking heard about this.

• 35:22Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 35:22Georgia Hardstark?

  And this is like, six children got fucking murdered, and there's nobody who got ever, you know, fingered for it, it's insane.

• 35:32Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 35:33Georgia Hardstark?

  So, this guy, Trainum, he took it up as a cold case in 2004, he was like, I'm gonna solve this, he thought, he had a key piece of evidence that on the clothing of the Phantom's last known victim, they found a potential DNA sample. Let's see here.

• 35:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, so because her body was discovered over this, over the district line in Prince George, Maryland Police initially handled the case, and so they had this information. And so it's like this, I found all these articles that they're like, so the DNA testing will be done if the sample yields a good profile, it'll be submitted to the database, blah de blah, but the last fucking thing I can find about that was from 2013. So I don't know if it's been tested, or...

• 36:21Speaker 04

  I feel like there should be money.

• 36:25Georgia Hardstark?

  I think there's a hundred and fif- oh, to test it?

• 36:28Speaker 04

  Well, I'm, I'm just saying, I feel like people in this country need jobs. And like, there's like, the whole thing of like, old rape kits that haven't gone tested, and they, they're actually doing, what I love is Mariska Harkit is doing all that work to change it, which, God bless her, and all the other people, there's a bunch of people that are like, there, there is the woman that's the mayor of, is she the, she, city councilwoman in Detroit, or she's the mayor of somewhere? It's of, it's on the Facebook page, that's where I read it. But these people that are just stepping up and being like, no, no. But I feel like, some company could make money. Why, why aren't they just prioritizing this

• 37:09Speaker 04

  the way they do everything else in terms of financial gain? Pay people, like, get it going.

• 37:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, let's, let's change that, and let's change statute of limitations on rape.

• 37:21Speaker 04

  Which is insane.

• 37:22Georgia Hardstark?

  There's a, I just want everyone to think about that. There's a statute of limitations on fucking rape, even if it's pedophilia.

• 37:31Speaker 04

  Yeah. Even if it's a 10-year-old girl, that was just trying to go to the corner store. And here's one thing I'll change, is I'll remember that the people that we're talking about are dead.

• 37:44Speaker 04

  I don't know what, I don't know what just happened.

• 37:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Were you really thinking that, like, in your brain?

• 37:48Speaker 04

  Well, you know what it was? This, what's that? The second that you started saying that of like, they just assumed she had sex with a boyfriend, I just went down that whole thing of like, how many stories to this day in 2016, you hear of, of judges being...

• 38:04Speaker 04

  The sexism and the misogyny that you hear to this day in the legal system.

• 38:09Georgia Hardstark?

  And the reason why you'll net will never know the exact number of rape victims is because why would you go, why would you come forward with this rape? If you know, you're going to be like, well, you fucked your boyfriend earlier. So it's probably not.

• 38:24Speaker 04

  It's just sickening. I mean, it's, it's happening less and less, but the fact that it still happens at all is just a disgrace. It's just like, we need to do better as the human race.

• 38:34Georgia Hardstark?

  We do. So Trainham called on an expert who specializes in, this is a fucking fascinating fact, specializes in narrowing the field of suspects. Kim Rossmo, she's a former Canadian police officer and professor at Texas State University, developed a computer system that plots crime events on a map and helps determine where the suspect's quote, anchor point or home or workplace or significant location might be. How fucking cool is that?

• 39:00Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 39:01Georgia Hardstark?

  So they spent weeks looking through reports together. They visited the crime scene and they developed a geographic profile of the killer's movements. I mean, they think the anchor point was in Congress Heights, just south of the hospital. I don't really understand. Nothing came out of that. So they have a suspect that I think sounds pretty good. So there's this dude, Robert Askins, A S K I N S, who's also some like web developer. So when you Google him, put murder in. He had been charged with raping a 24 year old woman in his house. He had killed prostitutes. He had been charged three times with homicide.

• 39:45Georgia Hardstark?

  He was in St. Elizabeth's Hospital, which is down the street from where they thought that he lived, that the killer lived. And had later been convicted in a 1938 killing of a prostitute by cyanide poisoning.

• 39:57Speaker 04

  Jesus Christ.

• 39:57Georgia Hardstark?

  But his sentence had been overturned on legal technicalities and saying that he was too impaired to stand, like too drunk at the time to be liable for it.

• 40:07Speaker 04

  Did you say 1938?

• 40:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 40:10Speaker 04

  So when he was really young and he was probably doing, if it was him, doing these ones when he was way older.

• 40:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. So.

• 40:18Georgia Hardstark?

  They arrested him in 1977 for something else. They found some, um, okay, so here's the inform- interesting part. So they went through his stuff and they found in his desk drawer a footnote from the judge, the judge's sentence. And the word tantamount had been, had been used over and over in that. Um, and later he would learn that this guy, Askins, you often used the word at the National Science Foundation where he used as a, he was worked as a crime, as a computer technician. So everyone he worked with was like, he used the word tantamount a lot. I've never fucking used that word in my life.

• 40:59Speaker 04

  I've never used that word. I've never heard anybody else use that word.

• 41:02Georgia Hardstark?

  That's like a, that's like a fucking Elmer Fudd word.

• 41:05Speaker 04

  Yeah. There's a tantamount to, uh, that's crazy. And also, he, was this guy white?

• 41:16Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 41:17Speaker 04

  Um, that's fascinating. He was like a black computer scientist in the 60s and 70s?

• 41:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Can I say something?

• 41:25Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 41:25Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't know if he was white.

• 41:28Speaker 04

  You don't know if he was white or black?

• 41:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 41:31Speaker 04

  That's very interesting.

• 41:32Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm gonna edit that out, cause I needed, I should have seen that. But I, I couldn't find any photos of him.

• 41:37Speaker 04

  Oh, I guess I assumed he was black because they, they saw the one girl in the car with a black guy.

• 41:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 41:41Speaker 04

  But that doesn't mean anything. Okay, we'll take it out.

• 41:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Technicians found on all six victims, green synthetic carpet fiber, fiber, excuse me, on all but one of the victims' clothing. And they couldn't find anything like that in this dude's house. And they dug up his backyard and they didn't find anything. And he was never charged. He's 87, serving a life sentence in North, in a federal prison. I think he died in like 2009 or so.

• 42:12Speaker 04

  But on his record, he had already been arrested for killing people three other times?

• 42:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, but they were always prostitutes. But when, but when he was asked by a reporter later, he said, "I didn't do those crimes, but I fuck, I hated women so much." Like, he almost was like, "I wish I had."

• 42:27Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 42:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 42:30Speaker 04

  Wow, that's crazy.

• 42:32Georgia Hardstark?

  So it's still an open case. Maybe I called the crime hotline in the county.

• 42:38Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah?

• 42:38Georgia Hardstark?

  And asked if they had checked the DNA, if they had searched the DNA.

• 42:42Speaker 04

  To get an update?

• 42:43Georgia Hardstark?

  And they like, didn't know what the fuck I was talking about and I felt like an idiot.

• 42:48Speaker 04

  Hey, at least you tried.

• 42:49Georgia Hardstark?

  I know.

• 42:49Speaker 04

  I wonder how you do find out about stuff like that?

• 42:51Georgia Hardstark?

  I think you have to be, you have to have some kind of authority. I don't think they'll just give that out.

• 42:55Speaker 04

  Um.

• 42:56Georgia Hardstark?

  They'll find out about that. Can someone who's like in forensics find out if that?

• 43:00Speaker 04

  Yeah, or just people that are listening. If you want to be a sleuth, try to find out updates on the freeway phantom murders.

• 43:07Georgia Hardstark?

  It's weird that the last thing I saw was like, they're trying to test the DNA and then.

• 43:12Speaker 04

  And then just nothing.

• 43:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Nothing, not even like there was no match or there was, it was inconclusive. I mean, I'm just curious.

• 43:17Speaker 04

  It's, well, and also it's just that it's such a quagmire of like DNA and testing and all that stuff. It's like, there are some places where it takes years.

• 43:27Georgia Hardstark?

  I mean, yeah, especially places where they have high crime. That's not their priority. And this guy's probably dead, whoever it is.

• 43:35Speaker 04

  Right.

• 43:37Georgia Hardstark?

  But these people, but the families deserve answers. And that's the point is that families deserve answers just as much as any other family.

• 43:47Speaker 04

  That is so sad and horrifying.

• 43:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Awful.

• 43:50Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 43:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Awful. I mean, as I was rereading through the details of the case to do this, I'm just shocked over and over again and so amazed that there's no updates in this case. It seems like it should be solved now.

• 44:04Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 44:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you very much. Like, let's get back to this. I have two corrections from my story. One is that the suspect, Robert Askins, died in prison in 2010, not 2009, like I stated in the episode. And through the episode, I mispronounced one of the victim's names. I called her Brenda Woodward, but her last name was actually Woodard. So my apologies there. And also, if you're interested in this case, which you should be, it's fucking fascinating. Let's get, shed more light on it. Our friends over at Tenderfoot TV put out a limited series podcast about this case called Freeway Phantom. So definitely check that out. They make such good work over there.

• 44:38Speaker 04

  I definitely want to listen to that.

• 44:40Georgia Hardstark?

  I do too.

• 44:41Speaker 04

  Yeah. It deserves the deepest dive and like.

• 44:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 44:45Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 44:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Fresh eyes. All right, well, let's get into Karen's fucking horrible story. This is the story of Anders Behring Breivik. And just a warning, this story is about a mass shooting, so take some precautions if you need to.

• 45:04Speaker 05

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• 45:32Georgia Hardstark?

  The holidays are coming, which means we'll all be spending more time away from home.

• 45:36Karen Kilgariff?

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• 45:41Georgia Hardstark?

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• 45:45Karen Kilgariff?

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• 46:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, I really think that's invaluable peace of mind, that just like relying on your neighbors, paying attention is not going to give you. We've partnered with SimpliSafe to offer our listeners their biggest savings of the year. 70% off your new system with professional monitoring when you visit simplisafe.com/mfm.

• 46:28Karen Kilgariff?

  That's simplisafe.com/mfm. And when you order, write in "MFM" at checkout and it tells them we sent you, and it really helps the show.

• 46:36Georgia Hardstark?

  SimpliSafe, ahead of crime in real time. Goodbye.

• 46:39Karen Kilgariff?

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• 46:44Georgia Hardstark?

  So give your home a little holiday upgrade with Article.

• 46:47Karen Kilgariff?

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• 46:52Georgia Hardstark?

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• 47:01Karen Kilgariff?

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• 47:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Plus, Article's customer care team is available seven days a week. I know we're getting into fall and winter, but we live in Los Angeles, so my outdoor furniture is just like the perfect focal point for the pool parties we still end up having. Sorry, everyone, when it's like sunny and gorgeous year round. I sit on my Article patio furniture every morning and have my coffee and watch Cookie lay in the sun, and the whole thing is just so peaceful and pretty. Article is offering our listeners $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more.

• 47:40Karen Kilgariff?

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• 47:45Georgia Hardstark?

  That's article.com/murder for $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more.

• 47:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye.

• 47:53Speaker 04

  All right. Do you want to hear my, this week's my favorite murder?

• 47:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes, please.

• 47:58Speaker 04

  This is one I've wanted to do for a while, and I have to say, when I was looking up the different ones that I wanted to do today, I am very tired from my work, having to work and do things, do homework as well.

• 48:11Georgia Hardstark?

  I know.

• 48:12Speaker 04

  I'm not used to it. I'm kind of more of a lady of leisure. But I realized that all the ones I want to do are episodes of I Survived that I've seen that I loved. And I was like, I can't just keep retelling I Survived stories.

• 48:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Can't you?

• 48:28Speaker 04

  I guess I can, though, because I did again.

• 48:30Georgia Hardstark?

  And if you, if you add little details in that they didn't add in.

• 48:33Speaker 04

  Right. Well, because that's all firsthand account. So it's basically the person saying, this is like what it was like for me to go through it.

• 48:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 48:40Speaker 04

  But I just love that show so much because they are amazing. The stories themselves are crazy and amazing.

• 48:47Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm not going to watch it because I just want to hear from you.

• 48:49Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 48:49Georgia Hardstark?

  The stories.

• 48:50Speaker 04

  Oh, that's, that's perfect.

• 48:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 48:51Speaker 04

  Then I'll never have to bust myself again.

• 48:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Cool.

• 48:53Speaker 04

  But they did a special on I Survived of the Norway attacks. I don't know if you remember those, but they were the attacks on July 22nd in 2011 where Anders Behring Breivik, who was a crazy, fucking, right-wing fascist lunatic racist asshole.

• 49:16Speaker 04

  First blew up a government building in Oslo and then went on to a s- an island that had a summer camp.

• 49:25Georgia Hardstark?

  I remember this hor- horrifying, go on.

• 49:28Speaker 04

  Alright, so there is, I can't remember, I couldn't find the actual season and episode number, but if you look up the Norway attacks I survived, they have a special episode where it's four different kids who were on the island who survived these attacks. And it, also, they speak perfect English.

• 49:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh my god, what? Oslo's like, isn't that where the, it's the most peaceful place in the fucking world.

• 49:54Speaker 04

  They, they, um, not since World War II had they had violence like this in their country. It's also has the most beautiful people. My college roommate Kristin was obsessed with Norway and she went there one summer, she talked about it constantly, and she showed me these pictures, she's like, "We went there and we went to this music festival." And everyone was just like a gorgeous blonde model. They are truly amazing.

• 50:22Speaker 04

  So yeah, it's pretty great. I mean, they've, they've got it down. But of course, we, there's al- there's always gotta be an asshole to ruin things.

• 50:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 50:31Speaker 04

  So, this guy Anders Behring Breivik, um, he drove a van with a bomb made of fertilizer and fuel oil, which was similar to the Oklahoma, um, bombing, Oklahoma city bombing. He went and drove that and parked it next to the building where the office of the Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg was. And that van blew up. It killed eight people and it injured 209.

• 51:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Holy shit.

• 51:02Speaker 04

  Twelve of them very seriously.

• 51:06Speaker 04

  Luckily, fewer, fewer people than normal were in the area because, um, it was during, in July, so most people, that's the vacation month for Norwegians. And it was a Friday afternoon, so, oh, government people were gone for the day. Um, cuz he was, he had posted a video on YouTube the day before where he was wearing a scuba suit and holding AK-47 and talking about he wanted to rid his nation of Muslims.

• 51:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh wow.

• 51:36Speaker 04

  Um.

• 51:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, the Muslims are the problem, you fucking psychopath.

• 51:39Speaker 04

  You fucking terrorist. So, okay, so he does this hideous bombing. All of Oslo is just going nuts cuz it doesn't happen there. It does not happen there. Um, and then, less than two hours later, this guy Breivik, he's dressed up like a cop. Yeah.

• 51:55Georgia Hardstark?

  That's not fair. Like, I called bullshit on that.

• 51:58Speaker 04

  It's the creepiest worst, that thing where you immediately have the trust of people and you're manipulating that trust. So he gets on, um, a ferry and he takes, um, the ferry over to the island of Utoya. I'm going to pronounce it like a dirty American and, as I will every other word in this article that is basically, sounds like me reading an Ikea catalog. It's going to be that bad.

• 52:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Is it, I wonder if any murderer has ever taken a ferry to his, to his murder place? You know what I mean?

• 52:34Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 52:35Georgia Hardstark?

  It seems almost like-

• 52:36Speaker 04

  Maybe that should be next week's theme.

• 52:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, I feel like he should have taken a like, um, like a mo- like, what's a, what are those ones where you stand up and room across the-

• 52:44Speaker 04

  Oh, like, um, a gondola?

• 52:46Georgia Hardstark?

  No. A jet ski.

• 52:49Speaker 04

  Oh, okay.

• 52:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Like a jet ski.

• 52:51Speaker 04

  A ski-doo?

• 52:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Something but a fucking ferry.

• 52:54Speaker 04

  He had to jump on the ferry with all the other commuters. So he goes over to this, a summer camp. The average age of the campers are 18.

• 53:02Georgia Hardstark?

  No, why?

• 53:03Speaker 04

  They're, the Norwegian Youth Labor Party. So it's basically, it would be like if a bunch of young Democrats. Um, and there was a lot of children that were, uh, related to, um- Uh, um.

• 53:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Higher ups in the government?

• 53:17Speaker 04

  Yes, government workers and, and people that were.

• 53:21Georgia Hardstark?

  So he was, no, you're right. He was sending a message strictly to these people, which like, when has that ever worked? When are people ever gonna be like, okay?

• 53:29Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, here's the thing. If your plan is to kill people's children, you're the bad guy. Sorry. Anyway, yeah, I'm doing it again. Um, so he goes over onto the island of Utoya. He is dressed like a cop and he, um, tells them, they hear about the bombing in Oslo, which is of course, like, it's a national emergency.

• 53:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 53:52Speaker 04

  So he, as dressed as a police officer, goes to say that he's come for a routine check because there's all these diplomat and politicians, children on this island. So he's there to check if everybody's okay.

• 54:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Sure.

• 54:06Speaker 04

  So he meets with, um, Monica, a woman named Monica Boyse, who is the camp leader and the island hostess. And she, there is also a man who is the security officer on the island named Trond Bernstein. And he was also an off-duty cop.

• 54:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, please do something.

• 54:25Speaker 04

  Um, he killed, Breivik killed both of them immediately.

• 54:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Son of a, I was gonna be like, maybe this guy?

• 54:31Speaker 04

  Yeah, no. So he basically, he gets on, gets access to the island, immediately meets with the people in charge, takes out the adults in charge.

• 54:39Georgia Hardstark?

  How surprised do you have to be to have that happen to you? Like, Mom, before you die?

• 54:45Speaker 04

  Oh, my God. It's the last thing you expect.

• 54:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 54:47Speaker 04

  Um, and so he goes down. So in this episode of I Survived, the kids tell the story. But there was a lot of kids, they had gathered everybody up to tell them that this bombing had happened in Oslo. So then there were still people sitting on this big, kind of outside area, kind of standing around and talking about it. And this guy shows up dressed as a cop and he calls everyone around.

• 55:11Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm gonna throw up.

• 55:11Speaker 04

  Ask them to gather up and then just start shooting. And so, so the kids have, it's like they've just gotten this terrible news. Then this starts happening. They have no idea what's going on.

• 55:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Like you don't even know to run because it's so surreal.

• 55:26Speaker 04

  It's so surreal, that's what they all say. And he's dressed like a policeman, so on top of it, they don't understand what's happening.

• 55:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, because they probably still think he's a policeman. It's not like you're like, oh, this guy lied.

• 55:36Speaker 04

  Right, exactly. And also, you're far away enough, so if you're seeing it happen, like they think, is this some sort of huge prank? Or is it an emergency? Some of the kids said that on the other parts of the island, because they did have, it wasn't strange that there would be gunshots on the island. Because they were out in nature and they said that wasn't a weird thing. Yeah, like, that that didn't surprise them, but then it was when they heard screaming. That they realized something bad was happening. This island is also very small.

• 56:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Is it?

• 56:04Speaker 04

  Yeah. So, for the next hour and a half.

• 56:07Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 56:07Speaker 04

  Yep, this guy.

• 56:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Rampage.

• 56:09Speaker 04

  Walking and running around the island, picking kids off.

• 56:12Georgia Hardstark?

  No, no, no. Where do they hide? Where do you hide?

• 56:15Speaker 04

  It's such a nightmare. So some kids hid in a freezer. And there's, there's kids that told a story of hiding in a freezer, like five kids. He walked into the kitchen area, all the way around. And to the freezer, but didn't look inside and walked away. And that's the reason they survived. And there's kids, they, it's, there's article after article where kids tell stories like that. Where they were in their bunk, they all went under mattresses or whatever, and they just held their breath and hid. And then there's other stories that these kids tell from I Survived. Where like they're hiding and their phone goes off because the parents.

• 56:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Their parents are.

• 56:51Speaker 04

  Yeah, are calling to see if they're okay. And that's what gives them away. It's, it's bone chilling. This guy just walks around picking off kids.

• 56:59Georgia Hardstark?

  I always want to know, like, in the, in, I always immediately think. When I hear stories like that, or like Columbine or school shootings, like where would I be in that room? Like where would I hide? Where would I be?

• 57:10Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 57:11Georgia Hardstark?

  It's, you're never gonna, you're never gonna know if it's the right place to go or not.

• 57:14Speaker 04

  Well, and also when you're in a panic situation like that, you're just gonna make do with what the best, you know, thing that's near you. It's just luck. It's dumb luck and random fate.

• 57:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 57:27Speaker 04

  It's terrible. The other thing too is, he had enough time that he was going around, he shot kids, and then there were some kids who were just laying there pretending to be dead. He had enough time to go back around and double check and shoot them if they weren't dead. So it's fucked. So some kids had places to hide, some kids would come out of the places where they were hiding and then realize that the guy wasn't gone yet. So they would, you know, they would hide for half an hour and then think it must be all clear. And it's just because they weren't hearing screaming anymore.

• 58:01Georgia Hardstark?

  You guys, don't leave your hiding place until a real cop comes. I don't know.

• 58:06Speaker 04

  But how would you know? I mean.

• 58:08Georgia Hardstark?

  As I was saying that, I was like.

• 58:10Speaker 04

  I know. This is why, I mean, this is like, this is such a terrible worst case scenario, because it's also in a place where nothing, they don't have school shootings. They don't have stuff like that happen. It's not common at all. And then they're also, it's just a kid's camp. It's like such, so much innocence that it, that like, it's just the most surreal. A bunch of kids jump into the lake and start swimming away across, and now it's really cold water. Really cold water. And thank God, there were people that were on the islands across and in the houses that heard stuff, heard gunshots, heard screaming. At first thought that the gunshots must have been firecrackers, whatever, but there was one

• 58:54Speaker 04

  guy who had a big boat who heard it and got a call to say something bad is happening. You have to go over to that island. He thought it was a prank, but went anyway. God bless. He saved thirty kids.

• 59:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Holy shit.

• 59:09Speaker 04

  Because he just went. He was like, this sounds like nothing, but I will go anyway. There were kids in the water. He was throwing out life jackets to kids who he couldn't fit on the boat. They did like four trips. He did that. He was a local named Marcel Giefi, is how I'm gonna think it's pronounced. He was a German residence that was staying at the, a camping area on the mainland. And he got his boat out there. Then there was, another forty kids were saved by. Hegi, H-E-G-E, Dolan and Toral Hansen, who was a married couple who are holidaying nearby.

• 59:51Speaker 04

  This Wikipedia was clearly written by a foreign person.

• 59:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 59:55Speaker 04

  Using words like holidaying. Dolan was helping from land, so kids were swimming up on the land and she was getting them like to safety while Hansen and another neighbor were making boat trip rescues.

• 1:00:15Speaker 04

  Then there was a man named Casper Oleg, who made three trips to the island in his boat.

• 1:00:24Speaker 04

  And, oh, sorry, Casper is the one who thought initially it was a prank, but went anyway. Altogether, 150 kids swam away from the island.

• 1:00:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 1:00:33Speaker 04

  And were pulled out of the fjord by campers on the opposite shore.

• 1:00:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Holy shit.

• 1:00:38Speaker 04

  So that's an, it always makes me feel better when you hear that, like, other citizens taking action and helping out.

• 1:00:44Georgia Hardstark?

  They're helping, yeah.

• 1:00:44Speaker 04

  But the thing was, this motherfucker, once he saw the kids were getting into the water, went down and just started strafing the water.

• 1:00:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Dude.

• 1:00:52Speaker 04

  So he was in Berserker mode, as they like to say on last podcast on the left. He was in the mode where he was, no one was going to live.

• 1:00:59Georgia Hardstark?

  How did they stop him?

• 1:01:02Speaker 04

  Basically, the cops finally showed up after an hour and a half.

• 1:01:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Why did it take so long?

• 1:01:07Speaker 04

  Because...

• 1:01:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, they were at the other, they were at the bombing?

• 1:01:10Speaker 04

  They were at the other bombing and they didn't get word and all, it was a bunch of different stuff, but yeah, it basically just took them, that was how far away it was and how long it took.

• 1:01:24Speaker 04

  They finally got on, you know, it was a bunch of cops in like full riot gear and SWAT type gear, went on and just made an announcement saying, "Put your gun down." And I think at that point, he was done.

• 1:01:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:39Speaker 04

  Because they said he had made a couple of calls too. So I think it was that kind of thing where it was like, he made his first round and then it was just like he was coming down off of it.

• 1:01:49Georgia Hardstark?

  And he was ready to put... His message out too, probably.

• 1:01:53Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:01:53Georgia Hardstark?

  It was like not, this wasn't just to kill people. This was like a message.

• 1:01:57Speaker 04

  It was absolutely a message. And it was this kind of thing of like, we need to take our country back.

• 1:02:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:03Speaker 04

  And this is how we're gonna do it. We're gonna deliver the message to these politicians and to these people who are quote unquote, allowing things to happen.

• 1:02:12Speaker 04

  So at the end of the day, Breivik had killed sixty eight children outright.

• 1:02:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Jesus.

• 1:02:17Speaker 04

  Sixty eight children.

• 1:02:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh my god.

• 1:02:20Speaker 04

  That's more that was in my high school graduating class.

• 1:02:23Georgia Hardstark?

  That makes me so sick.

• 1:02:25Speaker 04

  It's terrible. And then he injured a hundred and ten, fifty five of them seriously. The sixty ninth victim died in the hospital two days later. So he was arrested. He was examined by a court appointed forensic psychiatrist. And he was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia.

• 1:02:46Speaker 04

  And they concluded that he was psychotic at the time of the attacks and criminally insane. But they, when it came time to have him go to court, they did a second psychiatric evaluation. And found that he was not criminally insane, that he was fully aware of what he was doing. It was planned and it had been planned for years. Because not only did he post that YouTube video the night before, but he had been, for years had been talking and ranting about this xenophobic shit of, we need to get these people out. And of course, he had a manifesto.

• 1:03:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 1:03:22Speaker 04

  So they find the manifesto and there are sections that he ripped off directly from the Unabomber without, without attributing. And he just replaced, um, he, uh, replaced leftists, which was Unabomber.

• 1:03:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:37Speaker 04

  With cultural Marxists. He, when he got on to, when he first started shooting the kids, he kept yelling, um, today is the day you die Marxists.

• 1:03:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 1:03:48Speaker 04

  So he was accusing everybody of, of being, you know, like communists or whatever.

• 1:03:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, my children. I mean, not that adults are any better, but it's just like.

• 1:03:57Speaker 04

  Because that's gonna send like the fastest worst message. Um, and it's also, it's, that's a person who wants to do evil.

• 1:04:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:04Speaker 04

  This isn't just, you know, you send it, you, you park a van. That has a bomb in it next to a government building and you're trying, that's chaos and mayhem. You're trying to create.

• 1:04:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, and you're walking away from it. It's not like you're point blank shooting, like, but when, but that is like.

• 1:04:21Speaker 04

  He took it to the next level because he wanted, he's evil and he wanted evil to be done. Uh, which is like, what do you, who do you think you are to protect anybody from anything or pretend? That's what your intentions are.

• 1:04:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:36Speaker 04

  When what you're doing is killing children of your own country. That's, that's where your argument falls apart.

• 1:04:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:44Speaker 04

  So he also, in his manifesto, um, said he was an admirer of the Tea Party movement of America.

• 1:04:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, well, there you go.

• 1:04:52Speaker 04

  So, you know, just know that, know that, know who you're appealing to. On August 24th, um, he was found to be sane by that panel of judges and sentenced to preventative detention. Um, which is a sentence of 21 years in prison. That can be repeatedly extended by five years as long as, um, the person is considered a threat to society.

• 1:05:18Karen Kilgariff?

  That's not long enough. He should have been fucking.

• 1:05:21Speaker 04

  It's the maximum sentence allowed by Norwegian law and the only way to get, to allow for life imprisonment is to get the 21 year sentence and then re-up it every five years.

• 1:05:35Georgia Hardstark?

  All right, we're back and this story still is just so heartbreaking.

• 1:05:39Karen Kilgariff?

  It's a horror movie. I mean, it truly is. It's a horror movie. And as a story, it's like a person who tried to plan the most painful, hurtful, scary thing that he could do and then he did it.

• 1:05:54Georgia Hardstark?

  All right, are there any updates, Karen?

• 1:05:56Speaker 04

  No major updates. So.

• 1:05:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Bravick has been held in isolation since he began his prison sentence in 2012. So he tried to sue the state, saying that his human rights were being breached, according to the Justice Ministry. So it's inhumane to hold him in isolation. But the reason he's being held in isolation is because he did a thing that people can't even fathom or wrap their head around. It's just like, I don't know.

• 1:06:26Georgia Hardstark?

  All right, well, let's turn this around and we can end this rewind episode on what we would call the podcast now, if we were naming it after a quote from the episode and not a weird number system that's like falling apart already.

• 1:06:40Karen Kilgariff?

  That's clearly falling apart because we're basing it on what the Duggars are doing. That's...

• 1:06:46Georgia Hardstark?

  The wheels have come off the fucking car. But we're still driving it.

• 1:06:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Look, 2024 will not hold up, you know, eight and a half years from now. Let me, that's just a thing people need to realize. It's just like, all of this, as we evolve, it, we can't look back and go, we did great.

• 1:07:06Georgia Hardstark?

  People, we will never do that. That's our promise to you.

• 1:07:09Karen Kilgariff?

  We really can't. But I think it's interesting, this is such a clear episode where we needed a good producer to go, hey, if you're gonna do this story, if Karen's gonna do this story, then we have to do a slightly, a slightly different story, so it's not so horrifying in this, in this show.

• 1:07:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 1:07:28Karen Kilgariff?

  But didn't do it this time.

• 1:07:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Nope.

• 1:07:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Too early.

• 1:07:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. You have two jobs. I think I had a couple weird gigs.

• 1:07:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, yeah. You had some stuff, you were doing that, um, weren't you doing like a streaming thing? Or some sort of like video thing for your other podcast?

• 1:07:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, yeah, that's right. We were doing like a, yeah, streaming thing.

• 1:07:49Karen Kilgariff?

  We were busy.

• 1:07:50Georgia Hardstark?

  We were busy ladies.

• 1:07:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, the suggestions for the titles. Encourage to Jaywalk. That's a great one. Georgia said that when she was talking about being a kid and walking alone.

• 1:08:00Georgia Hardstark?

  I hear that. It's so true. Jaywalk, you'll be quicker.

• 1:08:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Just run, yeah.

• 1:08:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Get quick home. So Jaywalk.

• 1:08:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Hitchhike. Get a ride from a stranger if you want to get home quicker.

• 1:08:11Karen Kilgariff?

  You're five, so run out in the street where they can't see you.

• 1:08:15Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm pretty good at jaywalking now, I will say. And then, this is the first time I think I said Sweet Baby Angels, referring to the victims of the freeway phantom. Pretty wild.

• 1:08:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, I mean, sometimes we just have to review episodes that are just a bummer in every way.

• 1:08:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. But we did that. And thank you, guys, for listening. Stick around for more Rewind episodes. We'll keep doing them if you like them.

• 1:08:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, that's right. Thanks for showing up. Stay sexy.

• 1:08:41Georgia Hardstark?

  And don't get murdered.

• 1:08:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie?

• 1:08:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Vacation planning should feel like a breeze, not a deep dive into countless travel sites searching for the best deal.

• 1:08:57Georgia Hardstark?

  With CheapCaribbean's Budget Beach Finder, you can search every destination and every date, all in one search.

• 1:09:03Karen Kilgariff?

  You'll save time and money with the Budget Beach Finder.

• 1:09:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Say goodbye to endless scrolling and tab hopping and hello to Budget Beach Bliss at your fingertips.

• 1:09:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Go to CheapCaribbean.com to try out the Budget Beach Finder and see just how stress-free vacation planning should be. Goodbye.

• 1:09:18Speaker 06

  Coca-Cola. For the big, for the small, the short, and the tall. Peacemakers, risk-takers. For the optimists, pessimists. For long-distance love. For introverts and extroverts. The thinkers and the doers. For old friends and new. Coca-Cola. For everyone. Pick up some Coca-Cola at a store near you.