20VC: 3 Questions Founders Must Stress Test VCs with, What Separates the Good From The Great VCs & Why 80% of VC Detract Value From Board Meetings with Seth Sternberg, Founder & CEO @ Honor

Seth Sternberg is the Founder & CEO @ Honor, the startup that provides homecare your family will love. To date Seth has raised over $60m in funding with Honor from the likes of Thrive Capital, a16z, Homebrew and 8VC. Prior to Honor, Seth was the Co-founder & CEO of Meebo, a web communications platform backed by the likes of Sequoia, Khosla and True Ventures. Meebo reached $50M in revenue and close to half of the US internet population before being acquired by Google for $100M in 2012. At Google, Seth became a Product Director working on the Google+ Platform and GoogleX. Seth is also a prolific angel investor with a portfolio including the likes of Fitbit and Gusto to name a few. In Today’s Episode You Will Learn: 1.) How Seth made his way into the world of startups with the founding of Sequoia backed, Meebo? How did he transition from social network to homecare provision? 2.) From his experience with Meebo, what are the biggest elements Seth has done differently with the building of Honor? What was successful the first time that he has carried with him to Honor? How does Seth approach the hiring process fundamentally differently the 2nd time around? 3.) Seth has worked with the likes of Sequoia, Khosla, Thrive and more, what are the commonalities that make the best VCs so special? Where does Seth believe VCs can add true value? Where do many seriously detract value? Why does Seth believe that 80% of VCs are actually detrimental to board meetings? 4.) What 3 questions must all founders ask when considering to take on a new investor? What is that investor-founder assessment structure? When there is a disagreement with investors, how does Seth approach this? What is the best method for doing this in as fast and efficient method as possible? 5.) Would Seth agree with David Barrett @ Expensify that we are going through a wave of founders creating companies for the quick flip? How does Seth's 20-year time horizon with Honor affect how he both thinks about hiring and individual scaling within the firm? Why is he so jealous of Google and Facebook with regards to this? Items Mentioned In Today’s Show: Seth’s Fave Book: The Firm As always you can follow Harry, The Twenty Minute VC and Seth on Twitter here! Likewise, you can follow Harry on Instagram here for mojito madness and all things 20VC. We also speak about Movidiam – as brands turn to smarter ways of creating video and digital content, the Movidiam platform offers faster turnarounds whilst maintaining or improving quality. They’re already working with some of the biggest, most innovative companies to help compare teams and freelancers across the global curated network of creative talent. Producers and marketers looking for the best creatives can get a shortlist from Movidiam’s account managers in hours – tailored to their project’s needs. Submit a brief or check out the platform at Movidiam.com.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Harry Stebbings?

  Welcome to part two of the 20 minute VC this week and it's Founders Friday with me, Harry Stebbings and you can find me on Instagram at H Stebbings 1996 with two Bs. I would love to see you there where you can ask questions for future guests and even suggest future guests for the show. But to the show today, and we welcome an incredible serial entrepreneur in the form of Seth Sternberg, founder and CEO at Honor, the startup that provides home care your family will love. To date Seth has raised over $60 million in funding with Honor from the likes of Thrive Capital, Andreessen Horowitz, Homebrew and 8 VC, just to name a few. And prior to Honor Seth was the co-founder and CEO of Meebo, a web communications platform backed by the likes of Sequoia, Khosla and True Ventures. And Meebo reached $50 million in revenue and close to half of the US internet population

• 0:45Harry Stebbings?

  before being acquired by Google for $100 million in 2012. At Google Seth served as a product director working on the Google Plus platform and Google X. And Seth's also an incredible angel investor with a portfolio including the likes of Fitbit and Gusto, just to name a few. I do also want to say a huge thank you to Shan Lin Marzola for the intro to Seth today without which this episode would not have been possible. We really do appreciate that Shan. But before our episode today, brands are now turning to smarter ways of creating video and digital content to fit new distribution channels, looking for faster turnarounds while maintaining or improving the quality. The Movidiam platform addresses that directly. It's now simple for brands and agencies to connect with the very best creatives for their projects. Movidium is already working with some of the biggest forward-thinking companies to

• 1:30Harry Stebbings?

  save time and cost by allowing comparison of the global network of curated creative talent. With a global network, they're well-placed to continue to expand to take on the world's content demand. Producers and marketers looking for the best creatives can get a shortlist from Movidium's account managers in hours tailored to their project's needs. And all you need to do is submit a brief today or check out the platform at movidiam.com, home to some of the biggest names in the industry. And support for the 20 minute VC also comes from Wunder Capital, the easiest way to invest in large-scale solar energy projects across the US. With Wunder, you can earn up to 7.5% annually while helping to finance renewable energy projects. And you can get started at wundercapital.com/20minetc, all in letters. Wunder Capital, where impact investing meets capitalism.

• 2:14Harry Stebbings?

  But that's enough from me and I'm now thrilled to hand over to Seth Sternberg, founder and CEO at Honor.

• 2:25Speaker 01

  You have now arrived at your destination.

• 2:29Harry Stebbings?

  Seth, it's such a pleasure to have you on the show today. A huge thanks to Shannon Zola for the intro, but thank you so much for joining me today.

• 2:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

• 2:37Harry Stebbings?

  Not at all, but I want to get started today. And from social media platform to personalized home care, it's been a diverse career. So how did the founding of Honor come to be, Seth?

• 2:47Speaker 02

  So as you kind of mentioned, we built our previous companies. So Sandy and I had done Mebo together and we sold it to Google. Then Cam had done Plaxone, he'd sold it to Comcast. And we're kind of thinking about what was next for us. And we wanted to work on something where we could look a lot of people in the eye and know that we're going to make their lives fundamentally better. And we spent about a year and a half looking for that idea and then got a little bit worried about our parents. And that's when we started kind of diving on kind of issues around the elderly in general and then kind of settled on how to help people stay in their homes as they age.

• 3:18Harry Stebbings?

  And I spoke to Satya Patel at Homebrew before the show, and he mentioned the element of driving with your mother and that kind of being a realization moment for the founding of Honor. I'm intrigued, how do you think the personal and sentimental element of that idea moment maybe changed the way you build Honor, rather than if it was just a good idea that came to you in a big market?

• 3:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, Honor is a mission company, right? Like, we do Honor because it'll help us ultimately with our parents. It'll help people's parents. It even helps the care professionals, the people who go into people's homes and help them with these things that are called activities of daily living. So getting out of bed or getting food or getting dressed. So I think when you start with a mission first, you make a lot of different choices. And you also end up with a very different kind of team. And that's something I care a lot about is kind of the quality of our team attacking what's really a very complex problem.

• 4:09Harry Stebbings?

  Absolutely. We spoke about your founding there first with Mebo. I do want to start staying on the theme of serial entrepreneurship. We've discussed before, as I said, the founding of Mebo and Honor staying on this theme. Question from Shannon Zola, based on your experience founding and scaling Mebo, what are the biggest things you do differently with Honor as a result?

• 4:28Speaker 02

  I think the most helpful thing is there are a lot of mistakes you make as a first time entrepreneur or things You do that slow you down that you can just kind of speed through. So an example is I always wanted these kind of what I now call unicorn people to fulfill a unicorn role like. Why do you need to pay for both a salesperson and a marketing person? Can't they just be one person? And second time around, you recognize that there are actually really two different skill sets and two different personality types. And of course you need like one person who kind of does sales and another person who does marketing. You just get a lot more speed because you know more about the way the world works. I think the other thing that we're really careful about second time around is really carefully selecting the team.

• 5:10Speaker 02

  And you hear it all the time, but you hear this concept of hire slow, fire fast. And we really are extremely careful with who we bring in. But we're even much more aggressive this time around, around if we made a mistake, then we'll ask someone to leave.

• 5:25Harry Stebbings?

  Cass, how do you do that? You've built multiple successful businesses. What have been your learnings in terms of doing that in the right way, so to speak?

• 5:33Speaker 02

  If someone's not a good fit for a company, then it's actually bad for them too, right? And so if you figure that out really quickly, you can point that out to them before having joined the company even but it becomes a thing on their resume. And they are better off because they'll be more successful in a place that they're better suited for. And it'll kind of just fade from their resume. And then the way you have to really think about it, especially when you're such a mission driven company, is having the right team is what will make us succeed in making the lives of the elderly and their kids and the care pros better. Right? Like that is how we sustainably change the world at scale. Because really honor is nothing more than the team of people that work on it day in and day out.

• 6:14Speaker 02

  And so if your goal is really to fulfill on that mission for the world, then you have to be very careful about how you build the team that works on that goal.

• 6:22Harry Stebbings?

  You said about kind of the speed element there being very different in terms of scaling MIBO and on and kind of driving through those processes. Are there foundations that you saw work at MIBO that you've successfully carried with you to honor?

• 6:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, probably one of the most obvious ones is we are building the tech teams in really similar ways. So there are a few different philosophies on how to build the tech team. But what we do is extraordinarily selective, but low numbers of engineers. So it's really hard to find engineers that we want to work at Honor because our bar is frankly just so high. But when we find someone, they're amazing and they're kind of like, you kind of hear this mythical 10x productive engineer. And we really do have the 10x productive engineer. So it's really painful in the process of finding those people because you have to say no to a lot of people. But once a team like that, it's pretty amazing. And that's something that we carried between the two companies.

• 7:16Harry Stebbings?

  So if that's what you carry between two companies, speed maybe is what you do differently. Satya at Homebrew asked, what are elements that although you've done before, remain very difficult with both?

• 7:26Speaker 02

  Lots of things. You know, any kind of startup that you build will have its own really unique challenges based on what the market is. So frankly, in Honor's case, one of the most difficult things is that we often deal with customers who are in difficult states in their lives. So someone might have dementia and they might not remember that a care professional is going to come to their home. And they might literally call the police and say, hi, my home is being broken into. And that's the kind of thing that we have to now routinize. So you hear this thing with tech startups, this concept of turn every customer call into a bug. Like if it's a, if it's a report of something that went wrong, turn it into a bug and make it sustainably fixed over time. And the level of thing that we have to kind of make sustainable in just a process that's really simple.

• 8:11Speaker 02

  Like, how do you deal with a customer who, you know, does call the police because they don't remember where you're supposed to go? Or how do you even deal with the customers who pass away? Because, you know, we will literally be in the homes of customers who pass away when we're in the home. Those are things that we have to make a repeatable system.

• 8:27Harry Stebbings?

  Yeah, no, absolutely. It may sound a challenge, definitely. One interesting element that we discussed before and discussed with some of your investors is the interesting element of two married couples on the founding team. I'm interested, how do you address opposing points of view on the team with this maybe slightly different dynamic?

• 8:45Speaker 02

  You know, we actually, in a way, are really simple because there's the founding team that is two married couples. And then you've got the other executives who are kind of all in the exec team who report to me. And the way we make most decisions is we kind of lock ourselves in a room for three hours on Mondays and Wednesdays. And then everybody has their role. So you know, Cam, who's been my friend since year eighteen, has his role as running tech and Sandy, who's his wife, has her role of running kind of the bridge between technology and care. You know, my wife runs business operations, but at the end of the day, everybody kind of has their role. And then you've got the other execs who run care, Austin runs care and Nita runs demand. And everyone really just has an equal voice in that room.

• 9:26Harry Stebbings?

  Absolutely. In terms of kind of equal voices, often investors have voices. And you've had incredible experiences with VC fundraising in the past from raising from the likes of Sequoia, Coastler, Thrive, Andreessen and many more incredible people. I'm intrigued, though, with this experience, you've worked with some of the very best. Tell me, from your entrepreneurial perspective, what are the commonalities that you've seen and the truly great VCs that you've worked with?

• 9:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, you know, one is they really understand that the company is run by the founders. And they understand the limits of their knowledge on what's going on on the inside, kind of tactically. And so they're really, like the truly great VCs are really good at giving strategic advice. And they're really good at helping you think through your very difficult problems, but they do not try to run your company. And when I hear stories from friends of mine who've worked with other VCs that might not be quite as amazing, you get a lot of stories of like, oh, my God, I had a six-hour board meeting and we're going through different product ideation ideas. And I'm just like, ooh, like, that sounds pretty bad.

• 10:31Speaker 02

  So it's really this, like, knowing where they can truly be helpful. And knowing where really they have to trust the founding team to run the company is actually one of, I think, the real defining traits.

• 10:42Harry Stebbings?

  Ashana Zola, a mutual friend of ours, asked, what questions would you recommend founders really ask potential new investors when deciding who to pick as their investor or board member?

• 10:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, so the three things that we look at are Our personality fit first and foremost. So when you pick a new investor, you are going to work with this person for a really long time. So do you really like them and do you really want to work with them? The second thing is, do we truly agree on the vision? Like, do we agree on where we're going? So we all want to climb Mount Everest, not Mount Whitney. Got it. Okay, good. And then the last one is tactically, do you agree? Do we agree on how to get there? So, you know, let's say we all agree Mount Everest is the goal. But you say, let's climb the north face. And I say, let's climb the south face. And we're both completely convinced that we'll die on the other face because of an impending storm system or whatever. That can also make for a really painful relationship going forward. So those are the three things I think have to be there, right?

• 11:37Speaker 02

  It's like, do we like each other? Do we agree on the vision and do we agree on the tactics at a high level? And then from there, it's a lot of nice to haves. But I think those three are the core.

• 11:46Harry Stebbings?

  I'm intrigued specifically on the tactical element. For me, always an interesting time is when there's a small element of friction. I'd love to hear, when have you not gone with a board decision? And how did you communicate this?

• 11:58Speaker 02

  I literally can't think of a time when we've had a board decision. First of all, board decisions don't happen that frequently. This might be part of having really great VCs. But if something actually comes to like a split vote in the board or the board has to go through a formal process to make a decision that kind of everybody didn't already kind of agree on, that's probably a pretty bad sign. So I can't think of any, but it's almost because I can't think of a time when we really had to have kind of a quote unquote board decision. I think other times when, you know, I've gotten advice from one of my investors and done something else, yeah, of course. But that's what they kind of expect. Like, the good ones expect you'll listen to them. Like, I think a good entrepreneur listens really closely to what other people say,

• 12:41Speaker 02

  takes it in, integrates it into their model, but then ultimately does what they think the kind of combination of all the right things plus their own intuitive sense or data-driven sense drives them to. Because that's, I think that's usually where you get the wins.

• 12:55Harry Stebbings?

  No, absolutely. I'm intrigued, have you seen your board management and how you really evaluate the board chemistry? Have you seen that change over the time? You've developed and scaled both Meebo and Ona.

• 13:05Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah, I mean, I have no clue for Meebo.

• 13:09Speaker 02

  I was twenty five, I'd never done startups before and I think we got really lucky that you know, our first board member was Rulov from Sequoia. So that was a really good way to start and then I kind of learned along the way. You know, now I'm just really careful to make sure folks are informed about what's going on, the things that are important, not like kind of, you know, small things because it really doesn't matter. So I, you know, I might, in today's world, I might talk to our board members every other week or something. And I think that's about the right cadence. And then, you know, it's really just frankly, it's making sure you've got the right people on the board, more than anything. Because I kind of have this theory, I think about eighty percent of VCs frankly detract from the value of the kind of board in the discussion. I think ten percent are

• 13:52Speaker 02

  neutral and I think ten percent are really positive. So you want to find those like ten percent amazing VCs to be the ones that are funding your company.

• 14:00Harry Stebbings?

  Speaking of amazing VCs, you mentioned Rulov. I am intrigued, what were the biggest takeaways for you from working with him in the really kind of formative stages of your progression as a founder and an entrepreneur?

• 14:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, so the funny thing is, is Rulov was just developing as a VC when he worked with MIBO and us, because, you know, he had just recently joined Sequoia. And, you know, probably one of the top things about Rulov is he's just so analytical and so good at working through complex situations and kind of boiling them down to, okay, well, this is probably the way I would look like, break down that very complex problem and think about it. And that, along with his truly famous pulling out his notebook and pulling out a ruler and drawing very crisp, straight lines on his pager notes he's about to take. Those are probably the two things.

• 14:46Harry Stebbings?

  Love that. I do want to discuss one final element before we move into the quick fire, my favorite element of any interview, but the element of time and the long-term view that you very much have with Honour. Hunter Walk told me that this is a problem that you've said to him is big enough for the next ten to twenty years of your life. With that in mind, I'm intrigued, we recently had David Bauer to expenseify on the show and he said that too many founders and VCs in the valley are focused for and building for the quick flip and early exit. Would you maybe agree with that, having been and witnessed the frontline of the valley now for For over ten years.

• 15:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, you know, I think things come and go, and I think there was definitely a period where a lot of people were kind of building the flip. And that might be true of a number of people today, but I don't even really know. I do think it's the wrong way to build a company because you will make the wrong decisions. Like, if you're building a flip, you'll make short-term decisions and that will come back to bite you. So I think that people should really work on what they're super passionate about. Like, that is the most important thing. Here's the difference between Meebo and Honor. I used to go to way more industry events and now I just don't. Like, I'm almost like a hermit. And it might be because I have a son and another one on the way and I don't have enough time. Or it might be because I've determined that the highest value isn't really going to industry events or whatnot.

• 16:02Speaker 02

  It's really just concentrating on working with the team here and working with our customers. But I feel like I've become a little bit more detached from maybe what the pulse is of the moment for a question like that. Because I'm a little more focused than I used to be on just Honor.

• 16:18Harry Stebbings?

  Well, first, a massive congratulations on the impending addition to the portfolio of family. I am intrigued, and it's one question that I love, is how's having kids changed the way you think about Honor, company building, and the world maybe more in general?

• 16:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, so you definitely, A, spend your time more carefully. I do three things in life. I do Honor, family, and I ride bicycles to stay in shape, and that's all I have time for. I used to fly airplanes, but I don't have time to do it anymore, so I stopped. And then I think that you become much better about thinking about everyone else and less about yourself. Because when you truly become completely responsible for another human, it forces you into a totally different way of thinking. You almost understand. It helps you understand a broader swath of people because lots of people have had kids. And so, and certainly a lot of Honor's customers have had kids. And a lot of Honor's customers have their parents are taken care of. It's like, it's the kids who are forty to sixty years old.

• 17:16Speaker 02

  Have their own kids and then have their parents who they're taking care of. So it also just gives you a better perspective on how I think other people think and feel.

• 17:25Harry Stebbings?

  I do have one final question from Hum to Walk with regards to the long-term. Nature, he said, given the long term vision in terms of team building, how do you think the team will evolve over time? And do you seek to retain the people that hunger for startup life? Or is that one that you let transition?

• 17:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, you know, I'm really jealous of what I think both Facebook and Google have done. So like, if you look at Google, you've got people like Sindar, who are there from totally from the start, right? And he's still there. Or you look at, you know, Ben Smith is another example, less well known, but been there from the start and he's still there, even Don Harrison. You look at Facebook and you've got Cheryl, who's been there from so early, or you know, Shrepp, Mike Shreppoffer. These people who really were foundational in the building of the company and who are still there today when they're both worth, you know, hundreds of billions of dollars. And I think that's pretty awesome. And I would, I would kill to have that same outcome for Honor and its team.

• 18:18Harry Stebbings?

  What do you think Facebook have done to ensure their retention and their success over time?

• 18:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think it helps when you're growing really quickly because I think it keeps it interesting for people. And then I think empowering people to like, clearly both Larry and Sergey and then Mark did a good job of truly empowering really, really smart people because you cannot keep really smart people if you kind of just tell them what to do. It doesn't work. So entrusting the senior leadership that you hire to kind of run their show, I think is also really important.

• 18:50Harry Stebbings?

  In terms of the scaling of Honor over time, like we said there about the scaling and fast growth of Facebook and Google, how do you look to determine whether someone is or isn't scaling with the company? Is that kind of an assessment mechanism?

• 19:02Speaker 02

  When people don't scale with the company, it's really interesting. It really means that they're not scaling with the role that they're in with the company. Because, you know, roles do change very quickly. And some people just are better for certain stages and certain roles. And what usually happens when you talk to founders, you'll, they'll kind of hear this same story over and over again. You know, person X was absolutely incredible. And then one day I woke up and I realized that person X was no longer incredible and it blew my mind. And all founders, I think, have had that happen to them. And really, the most important thing to do is quickly start to talk to that person about what you perceive and figure out if new role would be better for them or it would be better to bring someone in who they report to?

• 19:45Speaker 02

  Or is it, or is it better for them to leave the company and go do something else because they like that role at that stage? And they should go do it again at another company.

• 19:52Harry Stebbings?

  No, absolutely. I do want to finish those day on a quick fire round. My favorite of any interview, as I said, so I say a short statement, you give me your immediate thoughts. Sixty seconds per one. Are you strapped in Seth?

• 20:03Speaker 02

  Okay, let's go for it.

• 20:04Harry Stebbings?

  So your favorite book and why? What must I be reading?

• 20:07Speaker 02

  Um, honestly, it's probably The Firm. It's a John Gershon book. It's one of the first he did. I think it's the one that put him on the map and it's because it's the first long book that I actually got through my ADD to be able to read cover to cover.

• 20:20Harry Stebbings?

  Do you know it is one of my favorite films as well?

• 20:23Speaker 02

  Oh, there you go.

• 20:24Harry Stebbings?

  Yeah, fantastic. Tom Cruise. Tell me, what keeps you up at night other than children?

• 20:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, children did it last night. It's actually really team. Like, my job is have an amazing team because they're the ones who make honor real. So ensuring that we have the right people is the number one thing for me.

• 20:43Harry Stebbings?

  What motto or quote do you frequently revert back to?

• 20:46Speaker 02

  Oh, wow. Actually, kiss, keep it simple, stupid. I think when you overcomplicate things, it usually becomes too hard to do.

• 20:53Harry Stebbings?

  What moment in your life has served as an inflection point and really changed the way you think?

• 20:58Speaker 02

  Actually, probably the process of getting my pilot's license and then a few of the things that have happened when flying airplanes, because sometimes things happen really fast and you have to make decisions really fast. But the number one thing in flying an airplane is you learn that you get all sorts of data coming at you, like here's my altitude and here's the way the plane is pointing and here's my airspeed and, you know, sometimes they seem to conflict. Like, it's it's too much information and you don't know how to process it all. And so you have to kind of pick signal from noise and make a decision without perfect information, but based on kind of the best information you have. And that applies to running startups very well.

• 21:37Harry Stebbings?

  Tell me, what do you believe that most around you disbelieve?

• 21:40Speaker 02

  I think the people around me honestly believe most of the things I do. Like, I I surround myself with people who believe. Um, and they they push really hard. You know, if I'm thinking about the honor team, I I don't know how to answer that question.

• 21:53Harry Stebbings?

  No, absolutely. Tell me, next five years for you and for honor, what's in the roadmap?

• 21:58Speaker 02

  You know, the first and foremost is to just build a really consistent Solid home care experience across the entire country. That does not exist today. And if we do that, we'll have made the world so much better for the elderly and their kids and the care pros. And we'll do that in partnership with the existing home care industry because that's a big part of our model. And then, you know, also within five years, for sure, we'll have introduced kind of new products and services into the homes that really change the face of what home care is considered to be today, but will make it so much better for our kids and their parents.

• 22:32Harry Stebbings?

  Well, Seth, as I said, I heard so many great things, everyone from Kareem to Aaron Hoffman. So I want to say huge thank you for giving up the time to stay to join me. It was incredible and I so appreciate it.

• 22:42Speaker 02

  Totally. Well, thanks for having me.

• 22:45Harry Stebbings?

  Such a fantastic guest and serial entrepreneur to have on the show then. If you'd like to see more from Seth, which I highly recommend you can on Twitter at SethJS. Likewise, I'd love to see you behind the scenes on Instagram. You can suggest future questions for the show and future guests for future episodes on Instagram at H W's 1996 with two Bs. It'd be great to see you there. But before we leave you today, brands are now turning to smarter ways of creating video and digital content to fit new distribution channels, looking for faster turnarounds while maintaining or improving the quality. The Movidiam platform addresses that directly. It's now simple for brands and agencies to connect with the very best creatives for their projects. Movidium is already working with some of the biggest forward-thinking companies to save time and cost

• 23:28Harry Stebbings?

  by allowing comparison of the global network of curated creative talent. With a global network, they're well placed to continue to expand to take on the world's content demand. Producers and marketers looking for the best creatives can get a shortlist from Movidium's account managers in hours tailored to their project's needs. And all you need to do is submit a brief today or check out the platform at movidiam.com, home to some of the biggest names in the industry. And support for the 20 Minute VC also comes from Wunder Capital, the easiest way to invest in large-scale solar energy projects across the US. With Wunder, you can earn up to seven and a half percent annually while helping to finance renewable energy projects. And you can get started at Wundercapital.com/20minutevc, all in letters. Wunder Capital, where impact investing meets capitalism.

• 24:11Harry Stebbings?

  As always, I so appreciate all your support and I cannot wait to bring you an incredible week of episodes next week.