Inside Canadian Sniper Operations | Barry Nisbet | Ep. 373

In this episode, former Canadian sniper Barry Nisbet and co-author Mir Bamanyar discuss their book 'Send It! Canada's Snipers at War in Afghanistan.' They delve into the journey of writing the book, the rigorous training and structure of Canadian sniper courses, and share personal experiences from their deployments, including Operation Medusa. The conversation highlights the importance of teamwork, the evolution of sniping tactics, and the impact of IEDs on combat. They reflect on the human element in military operations and the future of the Canadian military. Grab the book here: ⬇️ Send It: Canada's Snipers at War in Afghanistan https://a.co/d/2vMDZPq Today's Sponsors TrueWerk ⬇️ https://truewerk.com/house use code "HOUSE" for 15% off! GhostBed ⬇️ https://www.ghostbed.com/house FOR 25% off sitewide! For ad free video and audio and access to live streams and Eyes On Geopolitics... JOIN OUR PATREON! https://www.patreon.com/c/TheTeamHouse To help support the show and for all bonus content including: -live shows and asking guest questions -ad free audio and video -early access to shows -Access to ALL bonus segments with our guests Subscribe to our Patreon! ⬇️ https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouse Support the show here:⬇️ https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouse ___________________________________________________ Subscribe to the new EYES ON podcast here:⬇️ https://www.youtube.com/@EyesOnGeopoliticsPod/featured __________________________________ Jack Murphy's new book "We Defy: The Lost Chapters of Special Forces History" ⬇️ https://www.amazon.com/We-Defy-Chapters-Special-History-ebook/dp/B0DCGC1N1N/ —————————————————————— Or make a one time donation at: ⬇️ https://ko-fi.com/theteamhouse Social Media: ⬇️ The Team House Instagram: https://instagram.com/the.team.house?utm_medium=copy_link The Team House Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheTeamHousePod Jack’s Instagram: https://instagram.com/jackmcmurph?utm_medium=copy_link Jack’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/jackmurphyrgr?s=21 Dave’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/dave_parke?s=21 Team House Discord: ⬇️ https://discord.gg/wHFHYM6 SubReddit: ⬇️ https://www.reddit.com/r/TheTeamHouse/ Jack Murphy's memoir "Murphy's Law" can be found here:⬇️ https://www.amazon.com/Murphys-Law-Journey-Investigative-Journalist/dp/1501191241 The Team Room Reading Room (Amazon Affiliate links):⬇️ https://jackmurphywrites.com/the-team-room-reading-room/ Intro music by https://www.youtube.com/user/RemixSample "Karl Casey @ White Bat Audio" 00:00 Start 02:47 The Journey to Writing 'Send It!' 05:57 Understanding Canadian Sniper Training 08:56 Early Military Experiences and Deployments 11:41 The Structure of Canadian Sniper Courses 14:52 The Role of Sniper and Spotter 17:50 The Importance of Team Cohesion 20:51 Engagements and Combat Experiences 23:59 Operation Medusa: A Canadian Perspective 29:46 The Evolution of Sniping Tactics 32:47 The Impact of IEDs on Combat 35:57 The Human Element in Sniping 38:55 Reflections on Military Service 41:41 The Future of Canadian Military Operations Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

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  Special Operations.

• 1:37Speaker 04

  Covert Ops. Espionage. The Team House. With your hosts, Jack Murphy and David Park.

• 1:53Jack Murphy?

  Welcome to episode 373 of The Team House. I'm Jack Murphy, here with tonight's guests, former Canadian sniper Barry Nisbet, and former Ranger and co-author of the book Mir Baminyar. They are the author of Send It: Canadian Snipers at War in Afghanistan. Thank you both of you gentlemen for joining us tonight.

• 2:17Speaker 06

  You're welcome.

• 2:18Speaker 07

  Thanks for having us, Jack.

• 2:20Jack Murphy?

  Um, so maybe we just like kick it off. I mean, this is a little unorthodox, but talk a little bit about how this project came together. How did, how did Mir and Barry meet each other?

• 2:31Speaker 06

  All right, I'll take this one Barry, because you know, yeah, we can't trust you. You're old. Uh, look, this, this sort of started in 2010. Uh, I'd, I'd written a SEAL book with Chris Osman. I wanted to do something on snipers. And Chris said, there's this great guy in, uh, in Afghanistan he met called Gordon Cullen, who is instrumental in also writing this book. And through Gordon, I met Barry, and that's a long time ago. I think we met 10 years ago or something like that. And, uh, I went and interviewed Barry and, you know, on and off, it's taken me a long time to finally get to the book. And I, I was gonna write this whole thing about Canadian snipers because I now live in Canada and

• 3:14Speaker 06

  I thought there were some stories that needed to be told that we haven't heard yet. And to that end, I got permission from the Green Machine of Canada's forces that I could participate in two weeks at a sniper, call it boot camp, whatever, training course, uh, with the RCR, which is the Royal Canadian Regiment. So I spent two weeks with those guys. And I interviewed some of them and I was gonna write the book, but I, I recognized almost immediately that I'm just an idiot. There's no way I could write a book about something like sniping. I was really just so complex, at least to me it was. So I, I asked Gordon if he'd be interested in helping me on that. And he also introduced me to Barry at the time. So

• 3:58Speaker 06

  I met with Barry a bunch of times, went to his house and... Looked at a lot of things. We talked a lot. He showed me a lot of the video footage. And eventually I just made the decision. I don't even remember how long ago that was. But a few years back, I said, you know, do you guys want to just write this book? And I'll write one or two chapters, but it's really your story. You guys should write it and do justice to what, what, what took you, you know, to, uh, to, how to actually get to the point where you became combat efficient and very good at your job with, you know, sniper school and all the other experiences they had.

• 4:35Speaker 06

  For me, they, and, and we reached out to a number of others, uh, sniper. Many of them were excited at the beginning, but not participate.

• 4:47Speaker 06

  Barry and another guy, a couple of other guys. So that's how I met Barry through this process and we've become good friends.

• 4:57Jack Murphy?

  You know, something I wanted to mention too, from the onset is that, and I'm dating myself a little bit here, but when I went through sniper school many years ago, uh, all the instructors all told us how great the Canadian snipers are. Like, I'm not blowing smoke, like, and, and I heard that throughout my career in the army. People speak very highly about the Canadian snipers. And, and Barry, I was wondering if you could tell us a little bit about, you know, why do you think the Canadian snipers are, are so well regarded? And what is it about the Canadian military that has led them to create this program? That seems to work very well for them.

• 5:35Speaker 07

  Jack, I, I think it's, it's a combination of a lot of things. We're a, we're a small military, so we do a lot of cross-training. Um, and, and we have a really good base of infantry skills. Before we even, even think about, uh, getting onto a sniper course. You know, I was, you know, nine, eight years in the military before I even got an opportunity to go on the course. And, you know, at that point, you know, I was a machine gunner, mortarmen, reconnaissance patrolman. Um, so we just have a, a really solid base of basic. Before we can even be looked at to, to go on to a basic sniper course.

• 6:23Jack Murphy?

  Let's dig a little bit deeper Barry. Tell us a little bit about your origin story about how you joined the military and why. How did all of that come about for you?

• 6:35Speaker 07

  Well, how it came about for me, I was, I was 20, didn't really have a direction and my mom said to me, why don't you join the military? And I thought, why don't I join the military? So I went to recruiting office. I watched some videos. I saw the guys running around with guns, jumping out of airplanes. And I said, well, that's, that's what I want to do. And you know, I signed up for the infantry and I was told it would be, you know, months until I heard anything. Three weeks later, I got a phone call from a recruiting sergeant that, that called me very early in the morning and said, I hope you like getting up early. You're, you're in

• 7:17Speaker 07

  basic training in three weeks. And off, off I went.

• 7:24Jack Murphy?

  And was it you Barry, or was it your, your buddy Gordon? Well, because I remember it's in the book somewhere. One of you is colorblind?

• 7:33Speaker 07

  Yeah. That's Gordon.

• 7:34Jack Murphy?

  Oh, that's Gordon. Okay.

• 7:35Speaker 07

  Yeah. So Gord kind of, Gord kind of tucked under the radar. There's some, some requirements, but we're all very glad, very glad he did. Yeah. Just because, you know, exceptional soldier, exceptional sniper and instructor and mentor.

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• 11:19Jack Murphy?

  Mary, if you could just tell us then about, you know, you joined the military. Tell us about sort of your early military career. You had a series of infantry positions, it sounds like.

• 11:33Speaker 07

  Yeah, absolutely. I was always, I've always been in the first battalion Royal Canadian Regiment in, in Petawawa, Ontario. I'll say my first deployment was to, was the, was, would have been to Kosovo in 1999. I would have been in a, in a section or I guess a squad and I was just a, I was just a rifleman. So that was sort of my first, first deployment, peacekeeping mission into Kosovo. And then, you know, just kind of up through the ranks, you know, you get a little bit of leadership training. Next deployment was into Bosnia,

• 12:15Speaker 07

  where I was a, we would call section 2IC, I guess. What would that be like in a squad? Assistant team leader, maybe?

• 12:23Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 12:24Speaker 07

  Assistant team leader? Squad leader. Assistant squad leader, maybe. Yeah. Again, you know, just like another peacekeeping tour. And then a few years later, 2005, I was in Kabul, Afghanistan. We were, what we were doing there was, we were doing defense and security of a camp and QRF. So again, I was doing, you know, section 2IC and that. And, you know, then that kind of brought me.

• 12:59Speaker 07

  You know, that I guess say, you know, you cut your teeth a bit on those tours, you get a taste, you get exposed to other countries and other units and, you know, you kind of start to see that there's a, there's a lot more in the military to do. And, and that's when I sort of, you know, well, at that point, my first turn Afghanistan, I'd already been a Ranger School. I went to Ranger School in 2003.

• 13:26Speaker 07

  And it just progressed, you know, sniper course, oh, five, lucky to be in the sniper platoon, deployed to Afghanistan in, in oh, six. And that was a pretty interesting, pretty interesting tour, kind of first taste of combat.

• 13:47Speaker 07

  Progressed through into sniper detachment commander course, advanced sniper course. And then final tour was as a sniper detachment commander in, in 2010, back in Afghanistan.

• 14:01Jack Murphy?

  So talk to us a little bit about how the, the kind of the course works, the training. It sounds like there's a, you've mentioned a basic course and an advanced course. And how, how does the, how is Canadian sniper training structured?

• 14:15Speaker 07

  So first, to even get on to this, on to the basic sniper course, I guess it's basically structured in three phases. You have your basic, you have your sniper detachment commander, and then your, your advanced sniper, which would give you a position to be a unit master sniper. And just to get on the basic course, when I did it, pre-rexit was you need to have a basic comms, communication and reconnaissance patrolman. So like, like we chatted before, like your infantry skills are already, are already pretty up there.

• 14:50Speaker 07

  We had a pre-course of 24 candidates online that whittled down to 18 after a week of, you know, where they just, to use, to use a Ranger School term, where they smoked us pretty good. And, and then to the course where we graduated three of, of the 18. So a pretty high attrition rate back then with the course.

• 15:20Jack Murphy?

  And I mean, aside from that, you're learning, obviously, marksmanship, stocks, target identification, target distance estimation, and all of these kind of foundational sniper skills.

• 15:35Speaker 07

  Yeah, absolutely. You know, the course is broken down into, you know, different, you know, performance checks, judging distance, observation, obviously, marksmanship, stalking. And back then, in 05, stalking, the course was very heavily weighted on stalking. That was, that was a real, that was a real man eater. That's where we lost so many candidates because it was just, was just hard. And I think that's, that is something that really sets the Canadian Sniper Course

• 16:15Speaker 07

  apart from, from some other ones is, is just the, the level of stalking, the skill that, you know, we're, you're expected to be able to achieve, the level you're expected to be able to achieve, you know, on the basic Sniper Course.

• 16:34Speaker 06

  And it's And there's, sorry to interrupt Barry, there's a great chapter Barry actually wrote on stalking, which is highly detailed, but it really talks not just about the physical grueling aspect of it, but also about the emotional, mental strength that is required for you to actually complete the stalk. Sorry, had to throw that in there. It was a great chapter.

• 16:55Speaker 07

  Yeah, no, absolutely. And that is a big, that is a big part in the book because it's, any sniper, they, they're always going to remember the stalking phase of their course because it's, it's just like, I think I describe it in the book, is it's like, it's, it's a man eater and it's a dream, it's a dream crusher because that's, that's just where, that's where we lose so many guys because it's so difficult. It's such a difficult aspect of the course.

• 17:23Jack Murphy?

  And let's talk hardware for a second here. The Canadians are known to love their 338s. Is that what you learned to fire in the course or was there a different platform that you guys were taught on initially?

• 17:36Speaker 07

  So my core, we were using the C3A1 with with a Nurdle 10 power, fixed 10 power bullet drop compensator, uh, 308. It was an old gun, but she she fired, she fired straight.

• 17:55Jack Murphy?

  I I was laughing when I read about that in the book because friends of mine who had gone to the Marine Corps Scout Sniper Course used the Unertal scope and they told me the exact same thing you guys wrote in the book, that the mil dots are made out of wax or something like this and they melt off of the crosshairs.

• 18:13Speaker 07

  Yeah, you can always say you can tell an old Canadian sniper on a range because he'll, he'll take his hat, you know, put it on his scope.

• 18:19Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 18:20Speaker 07

  Because the reticle was wire and the mil dots were made of wax. So you never wanted the scope to heat up because then your mil dots get out of shape and then you're doing a judging distance PO and, you know, you're trying to cut that target by a mil dot that, you know, should be a mil and maybe now it's 1.3 or 1.2. So we've, we've, we've definitely advanced from that.

• 18:41Jack Murphy?

  And for, uh, for the young people out there, civilians who are not necessarily acquainted, could you describe the two positions on the sniper team, the sniper and spotter for folks out there?

• 18:53Speaker 07

  Yeah, absolutely. Um, the way, the way we would operate is the, you know, you have, you have your shooter, your primary shooter who will, will kind of have all the primary data, the primary dope dope on the gun. And then you'll have your spotter. Um, the way, the way we would structure it is your, your spotter is your more senior guy because spotting is spotting is more difficult. Spotting requires more skills. Spotting, spotting requires more time. And if you moved into the spotting position, you've already had that, that time on the gun.

• 19:32Speaker 07

  And I always describe it to people and they're always in in amazement. I always say, well, you've seen the movie The Matrix? And you see when Neo's dodging bullets and you can see that shockwave coming off the bullet. I tell people, well, you can see that. And they're like, you can't see that. And I'm like, yeah, you could see that. And that's, you know, ultimately, why why we're spotting and why when you're when you're seeing a sniper team, you know, that spotter is out with the spotting scope in line to the shooter with his scope over the barrel. So you're getting that true relation to when you're seeing that swirl, when when you're spotting that round to,

• 20:10Speaker 07

  you know, if you don't get a first round hit, as Hollywood makes it look like we always get first round hits. But as you know, Jack, that's that's not always the, it doesn't always happen. So you want to have a good spotter who's going to be able to make that quick, fast correction, you know, either, you know, a hold off or or, you know, if you're going to adjust windage or whatever. But that's the basics of how we'll work in a two man team.

• 20:35Jack Murphy?

  The the spotter really is like the human calculator that comes up with the formula and tells the sniper what the program into the scope. And the sniper really is just a marksman, a very good marksman, but all he has to do is pull the trigger, right? He has the easy job.

• 20:53Speaker 07

  Yeah, and I mean, we we we train and we cross train so much, and especially before we deploy that, you know, if I have to roll over and and get behind, we'll say the three three eight, you know, you know, I can do it vice versa, you know, he can come over and and spot. And and again, like, I think why we are so good or or why we're, you know, why we are very good at the job of being of of sniping is that we just have that, we we have that cross training and we have that confidence to to switch out in a position because, you know, if we're going out for two or three days, one guy can't stay on the gun for all that time.

• 21:35Speaker 07

  You know, you got to switch out and you got to have the the confidence in your teammates to be able to to be able to do the job if if if you're not the one on the gun.

• 21:44Jack Murphy?

  You know, this is something I've heard Barry, you can confirm or deny for me if this is true or not. I heard that one of the reasons why the Canadians are field such good sniper teams is it has to do with in the Canadian military, those teams can stay together much longer than they can, for instance, in the American military where the sniper and spotter have worked together for years and years.

• 22:06Speaker 07

  Definitely, Jack, in my experience, you know, I think that's, that's, that's pretty true. And I think if you talk to other Canadians, they would say the same. And I think that's also to the point where we're, we're a small military, you know, especially compared to the US, you know, and we try to keep the specialties to where they need to be. So if a guy, you know, if he gets into snipers and he's doing well and he's progressing, then why wouldn't we want to keep him in that position? And then, you know, and like you know, I mean, you, you build that confidence with your, with your spotter and vice versa.

• 22:50Speaker 07

  And the more range time you get, you know, shooting in all the different conditions, different distances and such, and especially if you, you get to deploy with, with, with that guy and with that team and stay together, it's just going to make you, it's going to make you better, it's going to make you more effective.

• 23:06Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, that's huge to have that kind of rapport between the sniper and spotter over such a long period. And I, I know this is jumping a little bit forward in your personal story, but while we're talking about training, I'd like to bring it up. You mentioned the advanced course. How does that differ from the basic one that we've been talking about?

• 23:24Speaker 07

  So, so the basic, I hate to call it basic because it's anything but basic, but it's, you know, you're laying the foundations for everything that's going to, that's going to propel you forward, you know, as a sniper. Whereas the advanced course is your, your, your learning, um, the, the tactical side, the employment of a sniper debt, uh, about briefing company commanders, about briefing, uh, unit commanders on the best way to employ, um, best way to employ a sniper debt. Because we don't have, or we didn't have, we never,

• 24:09Speaker 07

  we didn't have an officer. So an NCO was My NCO was it. In our, in our case, it was a warrant officer. And, you know, he's responsible to go and, and potentially brief a lieutenant colonel. And, and if we break it down further, me as a, as a deck commander with my, my debt, if I'm, you know, going to work in a, in a company, um, it's an infantry company, then it's going to be a sergeant that's going to be going and briefing, um, a major potentially. So, um, you know, and I think having that NCO knowledge, um, and, and, and learning those skills of building your courses of action, and being able to, to do a brief in, in front of officers, it's, you know, it's just another,

• 24:55Speaker 07

  I think it's just another skill that, you know, Canadians and snipers that we bring to the table.

• 25:00Jack Murphy?

  That, that's a great point.

• 25:01Speaker 06

  Yeah, I want to throw in something on that. I'm sorry to interrupt, Jack. You know, the interesting thing is, having talked to a bunch of these guys, I was always amazed as to how many officers had no idea how to deploy snipers in combat zones. How it was up to the UMS, the Unit Massive Sniper, or whoever it was, to actually kind of convince them and brief the officers as to the best deployment of various detachments across the front or something like that. That was a huge thing. I was surprised by that. I would have thought by now in the 21st century, you know, they would know how to employ snipers to the best abilities for everyone involved, but that wasn't always the case.

• 25:40Jack Murphy?

  I think it's a, it's an ongoing issue, Mira. I mean, any kind of specialized troops, be they snipers, reconnaissance, or, or even like mortars. Uh, and now today you get into electronic warfare and drone specialists. You know, if the officers haven't been brought up on that, on those tactics in their basic course, then they're not going to know how to employ those troops when they have them, you know, as a resource.

• 26:07Jack Murphy?

  Fair enough, yeah.

• 26:09Speaker 07

  Yeah, absolutely, and I think, I think too, I mean, as a, if I'm a deck commander and I'm in Afghanistan, you know, I don't, I want to be able to explain my capabilities to an officer. I don't want him to be trying to explain my capabilities to me because he hasn't done the course. He hasn't done the training.

• 26:31Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 26:31Speaker 07

  He doesn't know, he hasn't gone out in these tiny, small groups, you know, where you have to be self-sufficient, where if QRF's on 15 minutes notice to move, that doesn't mean shit because it's 30 minutes till they get to you, right? So my team is my team and I, I know how to best employ it. So, and you know, survivability is, is one of the factors that I have to look at when I'm, when I am going to deploy my debt, especially, you know, into combat.

• 27:01Jack Murphy?

  So, yeah, the, the advanced course is training you guys to be the voice inside the talk that's representing the sniper detachment.

• 27:08Speaker 07

  Exactly, yeah.

• 27:11Jack Murphy?

  I, you went to Ranger School, you mentioned that, we'll talk about that a little bit more, I, in, as we get down here. Um, tell us about your first deployment over to Afghanistan.

• 27:25Speaker 07

  So, the first deployment in, in snipers?

• 27:28Jack Murphy?

  Uh, yeah, oh, your first was with the infantry?

• 27:32Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 27:34Speaker 07

  But I mean,

• 27:35Speaker 06

  That was 2005 was your first deployment to Afghanistan in the regular army?

• 27:40Speaker 07

  Yeah, and, and as a, as just an infantry soldier and then, so yeah, I mean, I mean, 2006, there was, you know, I was, I was sniper trained, I was in the sniper platoon and Canada had, we had been in Afghanistan, at least in Kandahar now for a few years, so, you, you know, I remember, I, I really remember it because guys were dying. And in the Canadian Army, we were still getting used to that, like we were in combat and, and guys are dying. And so there's just, you know, there's that build up to the deployment. And, you know, and, and then you get there and I think

• 28:24Speaker 07

  there's always that thing in the back of your head is like, you know, okay, I've been a soldier for, you know, eight, nine years now, like,

• 28:35Speaker 07

  But I haven't been a soldier in combat yet, and I'm going into combat, and I'm gonna see combat. Like, and how am I gonna react? So, just have that in the back of your head, like, how, wha- what am I gonna do when the bullets start flying, you know? How am I gonna react? So, uh, uh, definitely not trepidation, but, you know, and, and I talk about it in the book, in during Al Medusa, when, you know, the, the, the first time when I was personally under direct fire, when the Taliban were just shooting at me. And, you know, I, I remember it so well.

• 29:14Speaker 07

  We were, we had, we'd been up in Masamgar, um, supporting Al Medusa, and, um, the worst of it was, was over. And I said, ah, you know, I gotta go down and make a phone call, so, walked down the, down the mountain about eight hundred meters to one of the labs, and, you know, of course, I'm wearing a soft cap, I don't have any body armor on, I've got my C8, suppressed C8 slung over my back. And, uh, you know, I'm walking in, to the left is the Argandab, and on the other side is, you know, the Taliban's still there. And I, and I hear a machine gun burst off to my left, and I don't think anything of it. And, I think because it was so far away, you know, the rounds were subsonic when they went over my head, so there was no crack.

• 29:59Speaker 07

  But the rocks started just, just kinda dancing all above me, and I said, holy shit, they're shooting at me. And I just swung my C8 around, grabbed it, not gonna shoot back, obviously, and I just ran. I, I just, I sprinted as fast as I could to that lab, and I, and I got to it. And, you know, I get behind the, the big, big green monster, and I'm, and I'm safe, and I was just like, holy shit, they were shooting at me.

• 30:31Jack Murphy?

  And, you know, you mentioned the Argandab Valley, and I just wanna point out that we have interviewed a eighty-second airborne division guy, and a hundred and first airborne division guy, who told us about, you know, operating in that valley as, as infantry. And I mean, that place was nasty, that, that was a very hot area.

• 30:50Speaker 07

  Yeah, it it it it was a hot area um and you know I'll say we as first on on combat deployment, you know, we we we were learning fast, you know, we were we were learning quick. Um, we're doing a lot of infills. Well, ninety nine percent of our infills we were doing by night. Um, you know, small units, NVG, it all lucky if we had um some surveillance overhead, you know, telling us the way was clear. But yeah, it was a heavily, it was a heavily IED area.

• 31:33Speaker 07

  Um, very difficult to identify, um, you know, good guys from bad guys. One day they're uh, and they're they're spraying AK rounds at you. So it it it was there definitely an intense area and um, a a lot of uh, a lot of lessons learned working in and out of there.

• 31:58Jack Murphy?

  But can you kind of lay out the like big picture, what Operation Medusa was? Because that's sort of like all in and around this book, I feel like.

• 32:08Speaker 07

  Yeah, it's it's certainly a a big, a big portion. So uh, two thousand six, the Canadian contingent, um, a mere jump in here anytime.

• 32:19Speaker 06

  I want to point out something real quick, actually. The interesting thing is two thousand six was really mostly a Canadian operation in that area. I mean, I'm not not saying no Americans participated because we know differently, but it was really primarily a Canadian operation. And in two thousand six, you could still call in a lot of air support, artillery, things like that. And that would change in two thousand ten, I think. Uh, so my impression has always been from Medusa as one of the biggest Canadian ops, I think, since the Korean War. I think, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it was. And they were supposed to seize a particular town and drive out the Taliban from there, right? And they had to cross a river and there was all sorts of aerial bombardment, artillery, all this kind of stuff.

• 33:05Speaker 06

  But I think political pressure forced an early attack. I don't think the Canadians, this is my opinion, I don't think the Canadians were quite ready to uh to launch the assault. I don't think they had softened up enough targets, things like that, so. But the key thing to remember in two thousand and six, they had a lot of air and artillery availability. And they could basically hit anything they wanted to, and that'll change by two thousand and ten, as Barry will eventually tell us. But Medusa, Up Medusa was a huge thing for Canada. And Barry will tell you all about the sniper uh use over there, but we should also remember Up Medusa is where Canadians take a lot of casualties, not from the Taliban, but

• 33:48Speaker 06

  from Americans, so anyway, let Barry jump back in.

• 33:54Speaker 07

  I think, yeah, Jack, like, like Mira said, it was a, it was a big operation. We, you know, we were going into um into Panjway to, to push the Taliban out. Um, you know, I was a, I was a master corporal. I don't know what that would, would that equate to in the, in the US military. Um, so we had, uh, I was the second in command of our, of our three, sometimes four man sniper detachment, depending on what we were doing. We were attached to Charles Company. And um, it was about a two day road movement into the Argandab, and then we seized, we seized the, and we seized Massumgar.

• 34:36Speaker 07

  And the uh infantry guys were, were happy to throw us out of their labs, and then we had to walk up Massumgar.

• 34:46Speaker 07

  With, you know, incredibly heavy rocks, probably, mine was probably tipping a hundred and fifty pounds. I had an AR ten, I had two hundred rounds of seven six two in that, plus all of our optics, plus food, water, and all that. And, you know, the, the initial, once we got up and we got set up, um, you know, and, and we're in the high ground and we're looking across the Argandab and, you know, everything is quiet, right? Everything is quiet, we're not seeing any movement. It's, it's kind of early morning, the, the labs, the infantry units, they're getting into their, into their positions. And then, like Mira had said, there's, there is a plan for a

• 35:30Speaker 07

  two to three day bombardment of the area. Um,

• 35:37Speaker 07

  that happened, but it was not the intensity or the length, um, that we were initially told in, in the, in the first process of it. Um, and I, I can tell you why that was.

• 35:53Speaker 07

  You know, they fired, from what I heard, they fired everything from naval guns to, uh, MLRSs, you know, A tens, every aircraft you could think dropped on that lot of artillery. And after a few days of that, the decision was made for the Charles Company, um, the infantry company to, to, to push across.

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• 38:02Speaker 08

  Hi, I'm Jenna Ashkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 38:17Speaker 09

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 38:28Speaker 08

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• 38:33Speaker 10

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 38:39Speaker 08

  So join us and hear their stories and more because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart radio app today.

• 39:00Speaker 12

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• 39:30Jack Murphy?

  And you guys set up an observation position and were overseeing that push?

• 39:37Speaker 07

  Well, we, we had been up in an observation post. We were, we were co-located with the, we actually had a couple Americans with us that were, that were doing, we're doing a couple of things as well. And, you know, my detachment commander made the decision that we'd be better suited to go across with the push. And once we got across, then to push out to a flank and then to provide flank security and overwatch. So we were actually in the thick of it and we turned into, back into just pure infantry soldiers after some,

• 40:20Speaker 07

  a couple of vehicles got hit, mobility kills, guys got killed. And, you know, for a couple, a couple of minutes there, all hell broke loose.

• 40:30Speaker 06

  The idea was that the, like we'd said before, that the bombardment would soften up everything. And the assumption had been, I think it was shortened by a day, don't quote me on that. The assumption had been that everything had been softened up. The Taliban weren't going to pose a problem. And so you guys launched the assault across the river and all that stuff. And that's, and everything to your front opened up, basically. So the bombardment may have done something, but it certainly didn't soften up the resistance by any stretch of the imagination.

• 41:02Speaker 07

  I, I think those guys were too hard and tough to be softened up. Like, they were, they were fierce. They were ferocious. They, you know, they fought us for every inch. And ultimately, we, we pulled back.

• 41:21Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, I mean.

• 41:22Speaker 06

  It's during that pullback, though, I think, that Charlie Company gets hit by the AT-10, unless I'm mistaken, somewhere around that time.

• 41:33Speaker 07

  Once we had, once the push had stopped and we had taken, we'd taken at that point four, four KIA, um, a lot of wounded, a cou- a couple of vehicle kills, um, the decision was made to, to pull back and, and we pulled back to, to our original position on Mastiff Garden. It was a day or two later when, um, an A-10, um, came and, you know, again, I can only speculate, but, um, you know, they got cleared on, on, uh, my understanding was, was they got talked onto a fire that was on the other side of the river. The fire was

• 42:17Speaker 07

  misidentified and, you know, a short burst was let out on, uh, on the A-10. And, you know, for those of us who know the sound of it, it's unmistakable. And that burp was a very short burp, you know, and it, it ended up killing one Canadian and wounding upwards of 20 or 25 and making that infantry company combat ineffective.

• 42:45Jack Murphy?

  I mean, Jesus, what, what happened after that? I mean, the, the sun comes up the next day and I mean, what's the, what's the battle plan? Because I remember you writing in the book about like the base getting attacked that you were in.

• 42:59Speaker 07

  Yeah, I mean, in, in that situation with, with the A-10, I remember I was sleeping and I had like, I had my ranger blanket pulled over my head and that A-10 woke me up, you know, and everyone. And then you look down at the main body of the company and you just see, you know, dust and smoke and it's like, you know, what, what just happened is the, is the reaction. And luckily we had some Canadian SF guys, uh, located very near to us and, you know, they sent their advanced, uh, medic guys down and just started patching and bandaging and, you know, it was, it was, uh, it was, it was a crazy time for sure.

• 43:42Speaker 07

  And especially when we don't know, we didn't know what happened.

• 43:47Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, wow, that's terrible.

• 43:51Jack Murphy?

  Um, and so, I mean, you guys start evacuating the wounded and what was the next phase for this mission?

• 44:02Speaker 07

  You know, that's, that's exactly where it got, it kind of got, it got weird, you know, is the, so we evacuate the, you know, Chinooks came in because there's so many casualties. Chinooks came in, they're taking the wounded out and, um, you know, slowly it was almost like the force on the mountain sort of scaled down. Um, we stayed up in that OP. We had a, uh, like I said, we had a, there is a Canadian SF team up there watching another objective. And they were, they left and then, uh, an ODA team

• 44:46Speaker 07

  ended up coming up because they were pushing into our AO. And, you know, eventually after that, you know, intense push by Charles Company to, to get across the Argandab and to seize that ground. Eventually what ended up happening, it was a combination of ANA, Canadian, and I think some Americans. You know, probably two weeks later and they just gently walked across the Argandab and met no resistance.

• 45:19Jack Murphy?

  That is weird.

• 45:20Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 45:22Speaker 06

  I should point out though, I also think do some, GORD and the other detachments were calling in, uh, strikes unless I'm mistaken. Whereas you guys had gone down, uh, to become infantrymen, basically, I think the other, other detachments were out there still calling fire and all that kind of stuff onto, uh, onto the village unless I'm mistaken on that.

• 45:44Speaker 07

  Yeah, GORD's, GORD's debt was, uh, also on Mastumgar. They're about eight, nine hundred meters away from us and they were definitely calling in fire. And then we had another sniper debt with a blocking force to the north. And uh even once when we did finally pull back and got back up into our original position, we were we were much more effective there like Mira said, because you know, we had artillery, we had um we had air and you know, I think again, what makes like we were chatting before, what makes a Canadian sniper, you know, lethal is, okay, I can't shoot you with the gun.

• 46:27Speaker 07

  Well, I have a radio and I'm going to call in a fire mission on you and oh, I I don't have guns. Well, I'm gonna I'm gonna jump on to the uh you know, ECAS net and and see who's up there and and and see what I can call in and you know, I think we we that's a big a big skill that we brought the table and that we also, you know, learnt in Afghanistan, you know, in combat is, hey, maybe we can't get them with the gun, but there's plenty of tools in the toolbox that we can use.

• 47:00Jack Murphy?

  And when the uh when you met up with the O D A up there, is that where you ran into your old Ranger buddy?

• 47:07Speaker 07

  Yeah, so you you know, and it it was it was really surreal. So I mean, like I said, I did Ranger School in oh three and you know, you you meet some great people through it and I I I meet I meet a guy, Joe Healy, he's uh he was O D A, he was a sergeant. And we just sort of, we were in the same company or platoon in Ranger School and you know, we just sort of clicked.

• 47:36Speaker 07

  We we stuck together through the whole school. I remember during uh one of the phases, I was the P L and he was my platoon sergeant and we had to set up the patrol base and everyone's tired and hungry and nobody wants to listen. They just want to get their fifteen minutes of sleep and eat their ration. And him and I, we just worked, we just worked great together, you know? And you know, you lose you lose touch with these guys as much as you you think you're gonna you're gonna be able to keep in touch with them.

• 48:09Speaker 07

  Um, you know, but it's, but it's hard. So, yeah, it's, this is like post Medusa push. We're still in Massimgar and I was on shift in the OP. And I'm just, I'm looking across the Argandab and we're told, hey, there's a, there's an ODA team coming up. Just to see you, they're, they're coming up. Um, they're gonna park half their team here and they're gonna go set up another position higher up on the mountain. So it's okay. So they come up and I can hear them behind me, but I'm on shift, so I don't pay any attention. They go up the mountain. And, uh, I get relieved and I'm sitting back in the shade. And I'm looking at all their backpacks, all their rucks.

• 48:49Speaker 07

  And, uh, they all had their name tapes on, on them and I, and I look and I, and I see the last name Healy. And I, and I joked to, to one of the guys, Cash, I said, hey, that was my best buddy in, in sniper school. You know, knowing well that you guys have, what did I say? Ranger school, sorry. Knowing that, you know, the US has upwards of 50,000 special forces soldiers and the whole Canadian military has about 50,000 in it. So thought never crossed my mind that that was, that was the guy. And, uh, so I see, I see them all, the US, the ODA team, they're, they're walking down the hill and, you know,

• 49:29Speaker 07

  getting bigger and okay, I can, I can make out arms and legs now and, you know, and I'm looking and I'm looking. And I see this big tall guy and he's got a Boston Red Sox hat on. And, and I'm looking at him and I look back at his rucksack and I look at the name and I look back at him and I just say, no way. So he keeps, he keeps walking closer and he's, you know, he's basically right in front of me and I have my, my telly hat pulled down low. And I just look at him and I go, hey, hoser. And he looks at me. And we just kind of smile and then you have this rest of this, you know, Green Beret team who are going, who's this fucking Canadian calling us a hoser, right?

• 50:12Speaker 07

  And then, yeah, the next thing you know, you know, we hug. We have a, we have a, a, a, a super awesome man hug and then, uh, yeah, he's like, holy shit, guys, you know, in his, in his accents, because I think all Americans have accent. He's like, yeah, this is Barry from Ranger School and, and, you know, it's funny because that introduction and just having that connection, that whole O D A team was like, fuck, yeah, you guys are good, right? And we did some damage up there, you know? We definitely did some damage up there with, you know, them having the, the air assets that they could control and

• 50:56Speaker 07

  just our ability to observe and to, uh, and to, you know, to, um, to, to pick targets. Um, it was, it, well, I'll say it was meant to be.

• 51:09Jack Murphy?

  There was another interesting vignette that I'd like to ask you that I, I think happened somewhere around this time, where you guys had an O P that got compromised by the locals. And it, it was just like one village boy seeing that some rocks were overturned or something like that. Um, can you tell us about that story?

• 51:29Speaker 07

  Yeah, I mean, and that was a constant issue that we had was in, in, and we would all say, you know, it's like the mountain is, the mountain is their T V. They don't, they don't, that, that's what they look at. And when, if something's out of place, they know it. Right? Like they, they know that it's moved. They know that it's changed. They, they, they just had this uncanny ability to, to just.

• 51:58Speaker 07

  To be able to understand the smallest change in their environment and think something's up there. And I mean, like Jack, I, the amount of times that we had been out and just thought we were, we were good and no one saw us. And then all of a sudden, a kid would just come walking out.

• 52:20Jack Murphy?

  Mm hmm.

• 52:20Speaker 07

  And they would all send a kid, and he would just come walking out and he turned and he'd just look right at us. And we're like, he can't see us. We're highly trained snipers, masters of stealth and camouflage. He can't see us. And, you know, anytime they sent the kid out, they knew we were in the area. And then we were like, all right, time to go. Because if we didn't, we knew what was the next. It's gonna be a RPK burst, it's gonna be an RPG, or, or, or hopefully not a recoilless rifle round that's gonna come ripping over our heads, but, um, yeah, the kids, the kids were a warning.

• 53:01Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, there's something about, you know, children get into everything. I mean, anyone who actually has kids knows, you know, how that works and remembers what it was like to be a kid themselves. And there's another story in your book that your buddy Gordon tells, uh, in Kosovo, where him and his buddy are wearing their ghillie suits and they're wearing the big bear suits and think they're super well hidden. And a little girl has her ball bounce away off a trail and she goes down the hill to get her ball and sees two snipers, like, holy shit.

• 53:29Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 53:29Jack Murphy?

  It goes running to her mom. Yeah.

• 53:32Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 53:34Speaker 06

  Yeah, it's true. Also, another thing, I'm sorry, I want to point out another thing, um. I mean, I think you were a sniper in the Ranger Battalion, uh, Jack, unless I'm mistaken, or at least you were on the long gun of sorts. But what I always found interesting is when I was talking to these guys is about the Rangers that they were shooting at in Afghanistan, right? Th- this was genuine sniping. This was not law enforcement shooting or, you know, city urban shooting. This was long range shooting. So I was always, I always found that to be quintessential Canadian. I don't know why, but since I guess Canadians were only in Afghanistan, they hold the record for these long range, uh, shots and, uh, it's always stuck out to me.

• 54:18Speaker 06

  About how good they really were at long range shooting. This, this, this is the one thing I.

• 54:23Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 54:24Speaker 06

  I observed from all my research and hanging out with the guys. So anyway, thought I should point that out.

• 54:34Jack Murphy?

  Um, Barry, do you want to move forward to the two thousand ten deployment?

• 54:41Speaker 07

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 54:44Speaker 07

  So, you know.

• 54:47Speaker 07

  I guess four, four years removed, um, I would have done my, uh, I would have done my advanced sniper course. Um, and then it was our turn to rotate, to rotate back in again and, and, and like you had said, uh, Jack, you know, with the ability to stay together. Um, I'll say that, you know, the, our sniper platoon changed, but the core, the core was still there. Uh, the core guys, you know, who were there in oh six with the, that experience and those lessons learned.

• 55:24Speaker 07

  You know, we're, we're going back in two thousand and ten and, and plus we had the, um, the bonus that we had trained the guys that were coming with us. Because we run our sniper courses in-house. Um, unlike I know US Army, they have their US Army Sniper School, you know, they all go through there, they all go through the same thing. We would run, our units would, we would run our own sniper courses. And again, you know, that helps because we're training the guys that are potentially going to come into our, into our unit. That are going to come and serve with us, that are going to, you know, go into combat with us. So it's a, it's a big bonus. So. We, we deployed back two thousand and ten.

• 56:08Speaker 07

  Um, I'm a, I'm a detachment commander now. Um, and we're, I'll say we're in a, we're in a diff, we're definitely in a different area. Um, we still shoot, we still went back to a few of the old, of the old haunts, but, um. We were, I guess we called like Adam's Eye, Adam's Eye Chain, uh, Shalawat, um.

• 56:36Speaker 07

  Definitely some different areas. The, the big thing that stands out with, with that tour was the amount of IEDs had just increased tenfold. I- in two thousand and six, I think the Taliban, they, they tried to fight us more. They, they would try to go toe to toe with us. Engages with a lot more small arms, a lot more ambushes. But they lost because, you know, we've got artillery, we've got aircraft stacked that all these levels and we've just got, we're, we're just so lethal. We're just such a lethal force and, and a lot of that was combined with, with the, uh, obviously with the Americans with multiple ODA teams that we worked with.

• 57:21Speaker 07

  And in two thousand and ten, it seemed like that was scaled back a bit, but the IEDs were just littered everywhere. Um, we had a lot of casualties from IED strikes. Um. Luckily not us, although we did have one in, in two thousand and six when we were out on a patrol. Um, but even the ROE in two thousand and ten was different. The ability to, to call an air or to call an artillery was much more, it was restricted. Um, as far as what we could do. And I think that made our role as snipers even more important.

• 58:02Speaker 07

  Because we could, we could use that precision fire uh, with the minimum collateral damage, which was, which was a big thing in two thousand and ten where I, I, I mean, maybe we're going, we were going a little bit more hearts and minds by that time. Um, now having been fighting this insurgency for, for almost a decade, I would definitely say there was a, a definite shift in two thousand and ten into, into how we fought. Just like there was a shift in how the Taliban fought in two thousand and ten. So it was a it was a, you know.

• 58:42Speaker 07

  Your steps and we still did the majority of our insertions at night. We did the majority of our insertions on foot, but it definitely up the risk factor just with the increased ID threat on that tour.

• 59:00Jack Murphy?

  And you talk a little bit about, I think one of your engagements, you thwarted a ambush that was being planned?

• 59:15Speaker 07

  Trying to think of the one.

• 59:18Jack Murphy?

  If there's more.

• 59:18Speaker 06

  You had a patrol going out. You had a patrol going out and you guys were on top of the mountain. I think it was with Gordon. I think that's.

• 59:26Speaker 07

  I think that was, I think that was Gord, yeah.

• 59:29Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah. When he hit someone who was preparing to set an ambush for the infantry patrol that was gonna go through the town. And I think you observed some guy with a radio or something like that. And then Gordon didn't.

• 59:44Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 59:44Speaker 06

  Yeah, Gordon didn't tell anyone he was gonna take the shot and he scared the shit out of everybody on patrol when his rifle went off. And I want to say he hit someone on that, but I don't remember that exactly. But I think that's the mission.

• 59:57Speaker 07

  Well, I think, I think, Jack, if, if, you know, and this was actually one of the chapters that Mere, Mere wrote in third person for, from one of my stories. And that was when we were on a, on a mountain called the Salavat Gar. And honestly, this was just, it seemed like just such a classic sniper mission where, you know, the planning was excellent. The, the major in charge, he knew the best way to deploy snipers was to let the snipers tell him how, how, how we were gonna deploy. And that was Major, that was

• 1:00:42Speaker 07

  Major Brown, and he gave us that flexibility and we came up with a, with, you know, I think a stellar plan, given the results. And what we did was our, our debt, we pushed out the night before.

• 1:00:56Speaker 08

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 1:01:10Speaker 09

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 1:01:21Speaker 08

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 1:01:27Speaker 10

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 1:01:32Speaker 08

  So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast, on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.

• 1:01:53Speaker 13

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• 1:02:16Speaker 03

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• 1:02:22Speaker 07

  I waited till dark. We infilled up the mountain. We got into position, you know, still under dark. And once we were set, then they pushed a patrol out from, they pushed a patrol out from one of the strong points. And so we're hitting up the mountains. We've got the 338, you know, the sun's coming up. You're getting a good indication of the wind because the cooking fires are coming up and they're set at different distances. So you're getting your, you know, you're getting your near wind, you're getting your far wind. And, you know, we're elevated, we're hidden, and the focus was completely on this patrol that was walking through. And

• 1:03:08Speaker 07

  You know, I was, I was spotting at the time and one of the guys is, is on the three thirty eight and we're sort of tracking these couple of guys through, through a village and the patrols coming from north to south, down, kind of down a wadi line. And you know, these two individuals are getting a little bit more interested in the patrol. And, you know, we have our ROEs and we're, we're very strict with our ROEs. And, um, in this instant, this individual, um, was, was, was definitely in contravention of the ROEs in close proximity to the, to the patrol. And, you know,

• 1:03:54Speaker 07

  without thought, you know, it was standby, send it, you know, we crack a, a three thirty eight round. It goes over the patrol because they're below us. We didn't have time to warn them, you know, they all hit the deck, you know? We, we engaged the guy, I think he was at about, I think he was six hundred and eight meters. And, um, you know, it, it's, it's, it's a good hit. And then, you know, we just radioed to the patrol. Hey, that was us. You guys are good, you know? And then patrol gets up, dusts himself off. Um, they, they continue their, uh, they continue their patrol through the town.

• 1:04:37Speaker 07

  Everything's good. They're looping back around and, um, we've just, we've got a really great position. We've got basically three hundred and sixty degree views. We're fairly well hidden. We're in a defendable position if, you know, if, if the ship was going to hit the fan on our end anyways. And we can see north up this road into this open area that the patrol has to cross to get back to the camp. Well, we weren't the only ones thinking that and knowing that. So as the patrol's looping around and they're getting ready to come through this open area. In the field, great, there's great fields below us. And, you know, people were starting to mill about and, you know, they weren't farmers.

• 1:05:20Speaker 07

  And, you know, a tactic that the Taliban would always use is they would, I think the hide from, uh, from the drones was, uh, or from surveillance was they always just wrap a blanket or something around a gun and they would carry it. And that was always like an RPK, right? It's like, that's gonna be an RPK under that blanket. So guys are just starting to set up. I think Taliban are starting to set up, getting eyes up, up that road to where they know the Canadians are gonna cross, you know, and it's a, you know, it, it's gonna, it's gonna funnel, it's gonna funnel them in there. And, you know, so we picked this guy up walking and he's, he's carrying, he's carrying something, he's got a big blue cloth on it. We know what it is.

• 1:06:02Speaker 07

  But we don't have, like, we don't have PID, we don't have positive ID. We, we can't say that's a gun, we, we can't shoot him. At this point, the teams had switched up, so we had, um, we had another guy. We had been actually the number one on the three, three, and my two I C, he was spotting and, um, I'm on the comms, so I, I'm talking to the patrol commander and I can see him and I'm like, okay, you guys gotta wait, you gotta stop, we got, you know, we got a situation developing here, we've got, um, just, just give us a few minutes and then. So this guy carrying this, you know, what we believe to be a gun, he just, he stops on the trail. And for whatever reason, maybe to reassure himself that he wasn't back carrying an RPK, he just took the cloth off.

• 1:06:45Speaker 07

  And, you know, two of us are like, RPK, like, P I D, RPK. And we can see, we could see where he was going, we could see where he was going to set up the gun, you know? He's just, soon as the Canadians start crossing, he was just gonna start laying rounds down. And, you know, he's walking, he's getting close to his position and, you know, I'm talking to the guys, I'm like, yeah, do what you gotta do when, when you, when you see the right window for the shot. And I'm, I'm radioing the patrol and I'm like, hold, hold, hold, just wait. And then sure enough, you know, the guys, the guys engaged, you know, moving target, I think that one was four seventy-five.

• 1:07:25Speaker 07

  And, you know, once we, once we made that shot, the gig was up because all the other Taliban.

• 1:07:35Speaker 07

  Just turned and looked up at the mountain, you know, and we were like, okay, it's it's it's time to go. So we're like, hey, out patrol, you guys are clear. And our plan was to stay up till dark and then, uh, you know, come down. And at that point, I made the call like, pack up, we gotta get out of here, because there's gonna be, if we stay here, we're gonna be in a world of hurt. So. You know, good, good day for us, bad day for them, but they weren't all like that.

• 1:08:04Jack Murphy?

  Do you want, you want to walk people through like the, the verbiage between the sniper and the spotter real quick, which leads into the title of your book?

• 1:08:13Speaker 07

  Yeah, and I mean, I would like to hear yours, yours on this. I don't know if that's uniquely Canadian or not. Uh, I've definitely heard different variations of it, but you know, you know, right from training, it's, um. You know, you're in your sniper team and we're on, we're on the range or, or, or, or you're in combat. It's, it's always the same. And it's just this calm, sort of just like rhythmic. Just you, you just get into this, you just get into the zone, right? You just, you're, because you're so comfortable behind, behind the gun. You're so comfortable behind the spotting scope.

• 1:08:53Speaker 07

  And it doesn't matter if your knees and elbows are digging into jagged rock and you're bleeding. It's just, you, you just get into that zone. And, you know, the communication, when you're getting down onto a target, it's just, it's quiet, it's calm. And, you know, as, as the shooter, you know, the shooter is going to make that decision as to when he's going to fire. But the spotter is, the spotter is continually monitoring the target. He's, he's monitoring the winds. He's monitoring the mirage. You know, he's looking for those changes that he's going to need to, to talk to the shooter about if we need to make a small correction, you know?

• 1:09:34Speaker 07

  We have our initial, initial windage dialed in, but if we need to do a hold left or right, you know, that's, that's what the spotter is doing. So, you know. The shooter knows he's, he's, he's in position, he's getting his breathing down. You know, he's in that slow breathing and it's, it's, you know, top of your breath. The shooter is saying, stand by, where he's like, I'm on target. You know, I'm good to go. I'm ready to release the shot. He says, stand by. He's doing that three quarter exhale. And as the spotter, because you know, we're, we're cross trained, I know where he is in his breathing cycle and I'll try to match that sometimes too, if I can. And then it's send it, you know, and once he hears that send it.

• 1:10:18Speaker 07

  Once he's ready, once he's applied all those marksmanship principles. And you know, we're, we're good with the target, then it's that slow squeeze and you know, I say this in the book, that's still the, the best phrase I've ever, all, all I think I'll ever hear is stand by, send it.

• 1:10:39Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, I think we used very similar terminology. I think we might've said shooter ready and send it. Might've been it. Um, going back a ways for me, um, but very similar.

• 1:10:53Jack Murphy?

  Um, so after that deployment, I mean, do we want to talk about sort of like the end of your military career and um, how you retired out of the military?

• 1:11:05Speaker 07

  You know,

• 1:11:08Speaker 07

  I love the military. I still love the military and um, you know, I, I, well, the best thing for me for getting out was, you know, I got out of my terms. I, I was a sergeant. Um, I had, you know, turned down um, uh, uh, the next leadership course because I, I, I just knew, I just knew I, I was done, you know? And, and even in mirror writes a, mirror writes a chapter in the book and it's, you know, I can tell you, my mom was upset because she read the book and, and I'm, I'm standing outside a tent and I'm, and I'm smoking a cigarette and my mom was like, oh my God, you smoked over there?

• 1:11:51Speaker 07

  And I said, yeah, mom, I didn't have a cigarette in my mouth. I had a, you know, a dip a skull in my mouth and you know, you just do bad things when you think there's potential for bad things that are going to happen to you. And then standing outside in a, in a fob. I'm smoking a cigarette and two mortar rounds land a hundred, a hundred and fifty meters away inside the camp. And, you know, I'm on my fifth tour, I'm in my thirties now. And i- i- it was literally that moment where I was like, okay, you know what? I've, I've used my nine lives and then some. I've lost some good friends and I just, at that time, I made the decision to say,

• 1:12:36Speaker 07

  you know, I'm, I'm gonna look for something else.

• 1:12:39Speaker 06

  How long were you in for at that time?

• 1:12:42Speaker 07

  Well, that was, that was twenty ten, so that was thirteen, thirteen years. Thirteen years, five deployments and.

• 1:12:51Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, kept you busy.

• 1:12:54Speaker 07

  Absolutely, yeah. So I, I mean, I hung around the battalion for a couple more years, taught on a few more, uh, taught on a few more courses and then, you know, i- i- i- I, I left at, at the pinnacle. I, in my mind, I wasn't gonna do anything better. There was nothing I could do within the regular army that was going to top having, you know, been able to deploy twice as a, as a sniper into Afghanistan, which is pretty rare amongst, um, you know, amongst Canadian snipers to get two, you know, combat deployments to Afghanistan. So,

• 1:13:37Speaker 07

  you know, been there, done that, got the T-shirt and it was time to move on.

• 1:13:42Speaker 06

  Hey, do you remember that picture you guys showed me of the stuffy that you guys had left on the, the path? That you were hoping the Taliban would walk on and take a look at it?

• 1:13:52Speaker 07

  Well, that was, that was Percy the Penguin.

• 1:13:54Speaker 06

  Yeah, what year was that? Could you tell us a little bit about that?

• 1:13:58Speaker 07

  So that was, that was two thousand and six and, you know, again, my, for whatever reason, my mom had sent me this, this tiny little stuffed penguin at Christmas. He had, he had like a Santa Claus hat on and a little jingle bell sewn into him. So we, we had to tactical him up, so we took the hat off, we took the jingle bell out. And we named him Percy. I won't tell you why we named him Percy. So Percy would ride in my, in my breast pocket of my shirt on every op we went on after that. So o- one day we were, we were.

• 1:14:35Speaker 07

  Double, we, I think there's five or six of us in the team and we had pushed out um to watch an objective and um we were set, we, we took the second floor of this building and um we had strong pointed it and we're like, well, you know, what if, what if somebody walks by, you know, what if the Taliban walked by then? You know, the best bet is, you know, how do we get them to stop? So what we did was we, we put Percy on the trail um with a little note. Um, we thought that would grab anybody's attention. Um, I won't say what was on the note. What was on the note? I won't say what was on the note, um, but uh, you know.

• 1:15:18Speaker 07

  Fortunately for the Taliban, they didn't walk by that day, but uh, yeah. I, I still have Percy somewhere.

• 1:15:28Speaker 11

  I think we have a viewer question for you, uh, Dee, if you want to read that off for them.

• 1:15:42Speaker 11

  From Al, uh, what's Barry's opinion on the modernization plans for the Canadian Army?

• 1:15:53Speaker 07

  I mean, if, from friends that I still have in the army and, you know, there's been a lot of media about it with, um, you know, the Prime Minister. Um, saying he's gonna meet the, meet the 2% uh, spending and then I think they're going in the right direction. Um, I think I think we need to get more current. I think we always have sort of been a little bit behind um in as far as procurement. Um, but I think we always make up that where we just, we have top-notch soldiers, we're, we're cross-trained.

• 1:16:33Speaker 07

  And, you know, we have the ability to act in, in so many different roles and because we're such a small force. Um, you know, we, we, we need to have that capability and we need to keep that capability and and I know we are, um, I've got friends that are on, uh, you know, they're, they're in Latvia with um, doing training missions throughout there and uh, guys that I had served with and

• 1:17:02Speaker 07

  You know, from them, they're telling me is that, you know, they're going in the right direction. They're keeping the standards high and, you know, Canada, we're going to continue to be a top notch professional force, you know, as we go into the, as we go into the next, whatever the next theater of operations is.

• 1:17:24Jack Murphy?

  Guys, thank you for joining us tonight. Is there anything else that we haven't talked about that you'd really like to bring up, either one of you?

• 1:17:32Speaker 06

  Yeah, I just want to point out, I didn't go to Ranger School because people like Barry got my slot.

• 1:17:38Jack Murphy?

  You're blaming the dirty foreigners, the Canadians. The Canadians, the Canadians took your job, Mere. Is that what you're saying?

• 1:17:47Speaker 06

  That's definitely what it is. That's why I had to move to Canada, so I can be one of them. But anyway, no, but it was great, you know? I mean, it's really great to hear Barry talk about this in some detail. And, you know, the book did take on and off 15 years to do. And the best decision that I made and they made is that they decided to be part of it. Because I think when you read the stalking chapter that Barry wrote, for example, I mean, that's the nitty gritty. If nothing else, you learn something. And then, you know, if Gordon had the opportunity to make it today, we could, we could have talked about what a nerd he is and the human computer that he is. And, you know, he wrote some very interesting chapters about what it takes to be one and weapons and, you know,

• 1:18:30Speaker 06

  all the gadgets and things like that. And he talked a little bit about the future of sniping, which is in the book. So if you're interested in that, you can, you can read up on that. And I remember what was very funny is when Gordon told me about this, he was attending some five I thing in Washington DC with a bunch of other people and, and they were talking about long range.

• 1:18:52Speaker 08

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the Food Allergy Podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 1:19:07Speaker 09

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant. So I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 1:19:18Speaker 08

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you, you're not alone.

• 1:19:23Speaker 10

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 1:19:29Speaker 08

  So join us and hear their stories and more because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat, it's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At The Table, the food allergy podcast on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At The Table and start listening on the free iHeart radio app today.

• 1:19:50Speaker 14

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• 1:20:13Speaker 03

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• 1:20:19Speaker 06

  And you know, drone, AI, that kind of stuff and shots at four clicks and things like that. And they were talking about the challenges for the future with all that for the sniper. And he said to two British officers behind him, said, well, we'll just send in drones. And Gordon was really funny. And he said, you know, it really crushed our sniper hearts that we, that these guys said that they'd send in drones instead of us. But he, he remains optimistic about the human involvement in sniping, even if it's super long range, even if it involves AI and drones and what have you not. So I think the key thing for me that I've taken away from all of this is the, the thing that you can't

• 1:21:03Speaker 06

  replace, which is that intangible human element, right? You look at someone like Barry, read a stalking chapter, you can just imagine the pain. Or like any of us, you know, when we've gone through certain types of selection, the pain you're willing to put up with and understand and you get from that is, is I think what sets snipers and elite forces, and I will consider Canadian snipers to be absolutely elite, that sets them apart from most people. And I'm not belittling drone operators or people who work in AI. But there's something to be said about the human spirit, the intangible element of a guy like a Barry, like a Gord, like you, you know, who've gone and done the work.

• 1:21:45Speaker 06

  Without technically speaking, without a drone, a little bit of AI maybe. And I take it back, you did guys, you did, I still use some drones, but you know, limited. You still needed to have your skill set and all that, so just saying, human element is always key, even in the future.

• 1:22:01Speaker 07

  A- and I think Jack, like the big, the big thing with this book is, you know, you know Hollywood, Hollywood TV, there's this myth. Uh, you know about, you know, the sniper and it's about, it's always about making that shot, right? And what, what, what this book does is it, it teaches you and it, it tells stories about what it takes to get up to that point. To be able to take that shot, the, the training that we have to go through, you know, the, the stalking, the shooting, the judging distance, the. You know, the, the mental, the mental toll that it takes, the physical toll that it takes.

• 1:22:42Speaker 07

  You know, just to get to that point to say, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a sniper, you know, I'm a Canadian sniper. And then, and then the book, it, it just takes you through missions and we're not glorifying them. You know, it's, it's, it's gritty, it's, it's raw, you know, sometimes we win and, and, and sometimes we lose. And that is, that is all in the book, you know, those stories are in the book. It's not, it's just not a glorified version, it's, it's, it's honest, it's true. And um, you know, I think anyone who, who reads the book will, you know, we'll, we'll see that. And, and there's, and there's just um, you know, so many great stories in it, you know, and I'll, and I'll give a shout out to uh, you know.

• 1:23:26Speaker 07

  Yves Bedard, who was another guy who I was on two tours with, who wrote a chapter in, in the book as well and um.

• 1:23:34Speaker 06

  He's B, yeah.

• 1:23:36Speaker 07

  He's B, it's just. The perspectives in the stories in the book are, you know, I just think they're they're honest and they're raw and they're, I think people will find them really engaging.

• 1:23:49Speaker 06

  Yeah. The last thing I want to add to this is something Barry told me a long time ago that stuck in my head, actually. He said, Afghanistan didn't define him, but it refined him. And somehow that's always stuck with me. I don't know, it was a great line. I want to say about the book also that it's kind of a weird book, you know, usually sniper books about one guy who does all these wonderful things in his mind, maybe in reality. But this book is sort of part manual, part mental examination, and then it's coupled with real world missions. And I think that's what sets it apart. And it's got different perspectives on it.

• 1:24:29Speaker 06

  I think in total, we had four people in there plus me who've contributed in some manner or anything. But I think it's very representative of the entire Canadian sniping community. I think I'm, I'm right on that.

• 1:24:42Jack Murphy?

  And the book is titled Send It: Canada's Snipers at War in Afghanistan. Guys, where can people find the book? When's it coming out?

• 1:24:54Speaker 07

  Uh, the book is out now, Jack, and currently it's available on, on Amazon. Um, or, well, basically that's on Amazon right now.

• 1:25:05Speaker 06

  Yeah, and Kindle. You can get paperback and Kindle. So I would, I would suggest, of course, the book. Because I'm still old fashioned. I'd like to hold things in my hands, so.

• 1:25:16Jack Murphy?

  I know.

• 1:25:17Speaker 06

  And it's doing well. It's gotten good reviews and I'm very happy with the book, actually. And I'm very pleased about the writing Gord, Barry and Bee had done for the book. It really makes it unique. So anyone who wants to know anything about sniping, Canadian or otherwise, should really be reading this book.

• 1:25:34Jack Murphy?

  When we had, uh, when we had lunch years ago, Mir, I remember showing you my Kindle and you were just befuddled by this contraption. Like, what, what, what is that? Like, you read books on this thing? Like, what?

• 1:25:49Speaker 06

  I'm still kind of like that, you know, I mean, you're only seeing parts of it, but I got something like three plus thousand books behind me and I need a ladder to

• 1:25:57Jack Murphy?

  I get it, I get it, man.

• 1:25:59Speaker 06

  So I, I love books, but it's, it's, you know, the future really I think belongs to Kindle or Kobo or whatever.

• 1:26:06Jack Murphy?

  I

• 1:26:07Speaker 06

  You don't have to lug stuff around.

• 1:26:08Jack Murphy?

  My personal preference is I like to read novels on my Kindle and nonfiction books like Send It, I will buy and, and put on my bookshelf.

• 1:26:16Speaker 06

  And I, and I should be, I should give you a shout out. You've got a book, a novel coming out next year.

• 1:26:22Jack Murphy?

  June.

• 1:26:23Speaker 06

  Barry is working on a novel.

• 1:26:25Jack Murphy?

  Cool.

• 1:26:25Speaker 06

  I'm working on a novel. So we're all sort of still doing the writing gig.

• 1:26:28Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, okay.

• 1:26:29Speaker 06

  Always exciting.

• 1:26:30Jack Murphy?

  Great. Well, we'll talk about that's those projects more down the line, I'm sure.

• 1:26:35Speaker 06

  Um, for sure.

• 1:26:35Jack Murphy?

  For all of our listeners, we'll have links down the description to send it where you can go and find it. Um, do you guys have any social media that you want to plug before we go?

• 1:26:46Speaker 06

  I'm, I only have a website. Barry also has a website, but I think he's on, do you have social media, Barry?

• 1:26:53Speaker 07

  Yeah, I've got at Send It Book on Instagram. You can follow that and I've got my website, Barry C. Nisbet.com. You can also get the book through there. Just, there's a link on there, uh, straight to Amazon.

• 1:27:09Jack Murphy?

  Awesome. That sounds great.

• 1:27:11Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 1:27:11Jack Murphy?

  Um, so thank you, both of you for joining us tonight, being flexible and, uh, hanging with us. Really appreciate it. I know our viewers will too. And, uh, for all of you out there, we'll see you guys next time. Thank you.

• 1:27:24Speaker 06

  Thank you.

• 1:27:25Speaker 07

  Thanks, Jack. Thanks, Dee.

• 1:27:28Jack Murphy?

  Hey guys, I want to tell all of you today about a new newsletter that we're launching that encompasses both the Team House podcast, the Eyes On podcast, and the High Side news outlet, which I run with Sean Naylor. Uh, the newsletter is going to be once a week. It's going to come into your inbox and you're going to get the most current podcasts on Eyes On and the Team House and whatever's topical or current on the high side. So it's another way for us to get the information out to you as social media algorithms are pretty iffy and you never really know what you're going to get. Um, so this is a once a week email. It'll slide into your inbox and it will have, you know, the greatest hits of that week. It's really good, man. Checking it out.

• 1:28:12Jack Murphy?

  The website for it is teamhousepodcast.kit.com/join. Teamhousepodcast.kit.com/join. Go there and you enter into your email list or you enter your email into the little thing on the website and you're good to go and that'll be it. So we really appreciate your support and hope you'll consider signing up.

• 1:28:35Speaker 15

  Where's the link?

• 1:28:37Jack Murphy?

  The link will also be down in the description if you'll.

• 1:28:39Speaker 08

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 1:28:54Speaker 09

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 1:29:05Speaker 08

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 1:29:10Speaker 10

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 1:29:16Speaker 08

  So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat, it's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart radio app today.

• 1:29:35Speaker 02

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• 1:30:01Speaker 03

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• 1:30:06Jack Murphy?

  Looking for it there. And that's teamhousepodcast.kit, K-I-T, Kilo, India, Tango, dot com, backslash, join.

• 1:30:19Speaker 08

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 1:30:34Speaker 09

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 1:30:45Speaker 08

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 1:30:50Speaker 10

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 1:30:56Speaker 08

  So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast, on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.

• 1:31:17Speaker 12

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• 1:31:21Speaker 02

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• 1:31:34Speaker 12

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• 1:31:38Speaker 03

  Spinquest is a free-to-play social casino. Void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details.

• 1:31:58Speaker 08

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 1:32:13Speaker 09

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 1:32:24Speaker 08

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 1:32:29Speaker 10

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 1:32:35Speaker 08

  So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast, on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.

• 1:32:55Speaker 02

  Hey, guys. Lady Luck here. I just love the fall season. Chris Mornings, pumpkin spice latte, and it's the best time to cozy up and play Spinquest. They have over a thousand different slots in all my favorite casino-style games. And they're running a deal for all new players, a $30 coin package for just $10. So this fall, grab your favorite blanket, visit spinquest.com and download the app today.

• 1:33:19Speaker 03

  Spinquest is a free-to-play social casino. Void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details.

• 1:33:35Speaker 08

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 1:33:49Speaker 09

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 1:34:00Speaker 08

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 1:34:06Speaker 10

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 1:34:11Speaker 08

  So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast, on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.

• 1:34:31Speaker 14

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• 1:34:56Speaker 03

  Spinquest is a free-to-play social casino. Void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details.

• 1:35:18Speaker 08

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 1:35:32Speaker 09

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 1:35:43Speaker 08

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 1:35:48Speaker 10

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 1:35:54Speaker 08

  So join us and hear their stories and more because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.

• 1:36:14Speaker 16

  What's up, everybody? It's Gretzky. I just got done stealing candy from all of the kids in my entire neighborhood, and my stomach just hurts so bad I can barely get off my couch. But don't worry, I can still spin a thousand of my favorite slots and play all of the live table games I love on spinquest.com. New users get a $30 coin package for just $10. Go to spinquest.com or download the app today.

• 1:36:38Speaker 03

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• 1:36:45Speaker 08

  She's been thinking about this sleepover all week, but I think about her food allergies all the time. Fortunately, her doctor prescribed Zolair, omalizumab. It's proven to significantly reduce allergic reactions if a food allergy accident happens.

• 1:36:58Speaker 01

  Zolair 150mg is a prescription medication used to treat food allergy in people one year of age and older to reduce allergic reactions due to accidental exposure to one or more foods. While taking Zolair, you should continue to avoid all foods to which you are allergic. Don't use if you are allergic to Zolair. Zolair may cause a severe, life-threatening allergic reaction called anaphylaxis. Tell your doctor if you ever had anaphylaxis. Get help right away if you have trouble breathing or if you have swelling of your throat or tongue. Zolair should not be used for the emergency treatment of allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis. Zolair is for maintenance use to reduce allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis, while avoiding food allergens. Serious side effects such as cancer, fever, muscle aches and rash, parasitic infection, or heart and circulation problems have been reported. Please see zolair.com for full prescribing information. Ask an allergist about Zolair.

• 1:37:41Speaker 01

  This is an advertisement for Zolair paid for by Genentech and Novartis.

• 1:37:44Speaker 02

  Hey guys, Lady Luck here. I just love the fall season. Cris Mornings Pumpkin Spice Latte, and it's the best time to cozy up and play Spin Quest. They have over a thousand different slots in all my favorite casino-style games. And they're running a deal for all new players. A $30 coin package for just $10. So this fall, grab your favorite blanket, visit spinquest.com, and download the app today.

• 1:38:09Speaker 03

  Spin Quest is a free-to-play social casino. Void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details.