638: Kirk Herbstreit - The Most Prepared Broadcaster In The World, Responding To Adversity, Faith, Elk Pride, High School Sports, NIL Deals, Lee Corso, & The Emotional Moment When The Buckeyes Won The Title

Go to www. LearningLeader.com https://www. LearningLeader.com for full show notes This is brought to you by Insight Global http://www.insightglobal.com/learningleader. If you need to hire 1 person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world have the hustle and grit to deliver. www. InsightGlobal.com/LearningLeader https://www. InsightGlobal.com/LearningLeader Kirk Herbstreit is the voice of college football. A former Centerville High School and Ohio State University Quarterback, Kirk has been the lead Analyst for ESPN's College Gameday since 1996. He calls the biggest games in college football on Saturday nights, and he broadcasts the college National Championship. Beyond college football, Kirk is also the lead analyst for Thursday Night Football on Amazon Prime Video. Kirk has been nominated for 19 Sports Emmy Awards and has won 5 times. This conversation was recorded in front of about 300 people in Centerville, Ohio. Kirk's dog Peter was with us on stage when he wasn't wandering around in the audience. Kirk's emotional moment after Ohio State's national championship was about his authentic connection to Coach Day, his son (who was on the team), and all the players. "I try so hard to be impartial. I try so hard to be just objective and fair. It's almost like the culmination of just a release." Showing authentic emotion and humanity makes leaders more relatable and trustworthy, not weaker. Bob Gregg and Ron Ullery's impact: "They didn't tear your knees out, but they just made sure as a 16, 17, 18-year-old that you knew this ain't about you. It's about us." This foundation created a work ethic that translates across all of life. The most prepared broadcaster in the world - "When I started in 1996 on college game day, unless you were a Big 10 fan, you had no idea who I was. So my idea of trying to build my brand was they're gonna know me from my work ethic." "They're gonna know me from my work ethic. They're gonna know me like, damn, I don't know who that dude is, but he seems to know what he's talking about." "I prepare a hundred percent, and I use 20% for all three shows." Over-preparation creates confidence and the ability to handle any direction conversations might go. When you're not the most naturally gifted, becoming the most prepared person in the room creates a competitive advantage. High School Football Builds Life Skills – "I'm such an advocate for high school football because of my own experience... It's about what these guys are doing... simple old school values, like hard work and perseverance and facing adversity." "I could choose to be embarrassed of who I was on national TV, or choose to have a bit of a chip on my shoulder. And I was kind of a chip on my shoulder guy my whole life." Feeling underestimated can fuel extraordinary preparation and performance when channeled constructively. Deal with Imposter Syndrome when he started broadcasting NFL games for Amazon on Thursday nights: "I didn't even go to an NFL camp, and here I am calling NFL Games as the expert game analyst. And so, and I'm working with freaking Al Michaels." "I don't deserve your respect in my brain until I earn it." College Football's Current Crisis – "The players went from our era. You had no say to now they have all to say... It's like the world is upside down right now when it comes to that aspect of it." "Who fixes it? The NCAA doesn't fix it... No one's worried about the global view of the sport. They're worried about their region... who's in charge? No one's the boss." "They're great players, but they're a dime a dozen. Like you're on a conveyor belt as a player. There's other players coming right behind you." Kirk supports true name, image, likeness marketing but opposes pay-for-play: "I am a fan of, if Jeremiah Smith becomes Jeremiah Smith after he gets there... if he can make money in marketing... But not, a guy is over at Bowling Green... and LSU needs a left guard and they're just like, Hey, how much does it take?" "These coaches are a little bit hesitant on how hard they're gonna be on these guys because they don't wanna believe. Imagine being a coach and you're worried about, is this guy gonna leave if I really do what I want to do with him?" Mental Health Through Faith – "For me, it's my faith... daily devotional prayer and really trying to connect helps me... having very honest conversation with family and friends and opening up." The Value of Chosen Hardship – My perspective: "I think you gotta keep doing that stuff... choose to do really hard things every day to prove to myself that I can keep doing hard things so that when adversity strikes, I'm prepared." Generational Empathy – "This generation, I can't imagine going through what they go through, whether it's Snapchat and middle school... just everybody being in your business and everything online." The Lee Corso Legacy – "He was hot takes before we knew what Hot Takes were... our relationship really changed was off air... he was a really good listener... like Yoda or like Don Corleone." The best mentoring relationships evolve from one-directional learning to mutual care and support. The Lunatic Fringe - "There's 90% of Ohio State fans that whether they win or they lose, they're proud of 'em... every fan base has that 10% that we're all embarrassed of."

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Ryan Hawk?

  This episode is brought to you by Insight Global. Insight Global is a staffing and professional services company that builds world-class technical teams for clients around the globe. If you need help with your applications, infrastructure, or data layer, Insight Global's team of technical experts can build custom or manage services to deliver the outcomes you desire. Getting the most out of your technology can be tough, but growing your business with the right technical solutions can be magic. Visit insightglobal.com/learningleader.

• 0:37Ryan Hawk?

  That's insightglobal.com/learningleader today to learn more. Welcome to the Learning Leader Show. I am your host, Ryan Hawke. Thank you so much for being here. Go to learningleader.com for show notes of this and all podcast episodes. Go to learningleader.com. Now, on to tonight's featured leader, the great Kirk Herbstreet, the voice of college football, a former Centerville High School and Ohio State University quarterback. Kirk has been the lead analyst for ESPN's College Game Day since 1996.

• 1:19Ryan Hawk?

  He calls the biggest games in college football on Saturday nights, and he broadcasts the college national championship. Beyond college football, Kirk is also the lead analyst for Thursday Night Football on Amazon Prime Video. He has been nominated for 19 Sports Emmy Awards and won five times. This conversation was recorded in front of about 300 people in Centerville, Ohio. Oh, and Kirk's dog, Peter, was with us onstage when he wasn't wandering around in the crowd. It was awesome. Some of the topics we covered. Why he was so emotional on TV the night the Ohio State Buckeyes won the national championship

• 2:01Ryan Hawk?

  and struggled initially to speak when ESPN's Scott Van Pelt asked him about the game. Then, we talked about how he deals with the, quote,

• 2:10Speaker 01

  Lunatic fringe fans in the sports world. Then we both shared the importance and impact of our high school football coaches, Ron Ullery and Bob Gray. Kirk and I both went to the same high school, both played quarterback for the legendary Ron Ullery and Bob Gray. And then near the end, we talked about some mental health struggles and how to get through them. Ladies and gentlemen, this one's so good. Please enjoy my conversation with Kirk Herbstreit. I gotta say something first about how this whole thing got put together. So Kirk Herbstreit is the most prepared human in the world when it comes to his job, whether it's football, broadcasting, whatever it takes.

• 2:54Speaker 01

  The second, or maybe tied for the first, is Terry Herbstreit. His sister is amazing. Let's give Terry a round of applause here in this room. Where'd she go?

• 3:03Speaker 02

  Right here.

• 3:04Speaker 01

  Oh, just the amount of prep, the amount of prep and texts and calls, getting ready for this. This is so cool. Like, it runs in the family. It really makes a lot of sense, so.

• 3:13Speaker 02

  He's like, now I know where he gets it.

• 3:14Speaker 01

  It does. It makes a lot of sense. Kirk, to start, I was telling you before when we were hanging out, eating backstage, that I vividly remember the January night a few months ago, sitting in bed by myself for the moment, my wife's with one of my daughters, and crying, watching you cry as Ohio State wins a national title. Scott Van Pelt throws it back and you go, no, no, no, no, no. Can you have Fowler go first? No, no, no, no, no. And yet, and I just want you to take us back to that night. Like, what are you feeling? What's it like at that moment when they throw it back to you and you're trying to bring yourself together after the Bucks win it all?

• 3:49Speaker 02

  That part was so hard and scary. I mean, on national TV, the game just ended. I obviously love Ohio State, but I think this particular, this, this particular team, oh yeah, this particular team, when they lost to Michigan, the reaction, I know Ryan very well, the reaction that a lot of the fanbase had towards him and towards that team. I just happened to, I had a son on the team, but he had some heart issues, had to, had to medically retire, but Ryan kept him on board. So when they did senior tackle, right after they lost to Michigan, my wife and I went out, it was just a family, it's a closed event. When I played, it was open to the public. Now it's, it's closed. And it was, they just lost to Michigan.

• 4:31Speaker 02

  And everyone hates them. And it's closed to the public, it's at the Woody Hayes facility. And the seniors are sitting at about the 20-yard line, Ryan Day's at the goal line. And all the families are on this side. It's like a tunnel. All the families are on this side. And all the other teammates are over here. So it's like a cool setup. And each position coach comes up, and he's in charge of saying something about each senior in his group. And I went in there thinking, are they going to cancel this after that game? And they had it. And I didn't know what to expect. And to see guys like Trevion Henderson,

• 5:11Speaker 02

  and Jack Sawyer, and GT, so really, all of them. But to hear them, so the coach says something about them, and then they grab the mic, and then they say something. I was just like, I think Ally was there, we were just blown away by 48 hours later, it's them against the world. I know you guys like to say Ohio against the world. You guys weren't involved in this. This was them against the world. And when I saw that, I left there, I was like, wow, like, these guys are on a mission. And then when the Tennessee game, you look, I go out, I called all four games, the Tennessee game, it was 40, 30,000, 40,000 Tennessee fans. They were convinced they were going to win. And Ohio State just dominated

• 5:56Speaker 02

  the game. And I think when talking to James Larnit and a lot of players, when they came out and saw all that orange, after all the noise on social media about fire Ryan Day, they were kind of like, F everybody. And I knew that was like lighting a fuse. And then they went Tennessee, I called every game, Tennessee, Oregon, Texas, in Dallas, and then the championship game against Notre Dame. And it was just, I think it was, for me, I tried so hard to be impartial, I tried so hard to be just objective and fair. It's almost like The culmination of just a release because you're looking at confetti coming down and

• 6:40Speaker 02

  you're seeing all that go on with these players who had everybody against them and they had their moment. I was just happy. It was what a story for them. They should write a movie script on really that story. So I think it was that, my son, he had heart failure, you almost faced a heart transplant, that being a part of it, looking down saying, "Hem," you know, just all kinds of stuff that was going on. And it was just like all of that at once and Scott McPhee's like, "Herbie, what are you feeling?" And I'm just like, "Uh." So it was, it was, it was really cool. It'll be a great, I've done this 29 years. That'll be one of my, one of my favorite memories, just seeing Ryan Day, just his family, just how happy they were. It was cool. It was good.

• 7:20Speaker 01

  It was a real human moment, man. I think it brought a lot of people close to you. And it's actually been kind of a weird year for you with Ohio State fans. You mentioned the lunatic fringe, which has been repeated a lot. And now, you know, they come back and win it and you feel like this emotion. How do you feel through that? Like when, after you mentioned some of the fans, there may be some in this room that are part of the lunatic fringe, Kirk, I don't know. I mean, how do you, how do you feel about that?

• 7:45Speaker 02

  Well, I think Fowler said something about during the game, the game was pretty much over. They were up by whatever it was, 20 or 30 points in his final few minutes. And he said, "Is this going to be enough to, to make the masses come back and get back in the corner of Brian Day?" And I said, "I mean, you're asking a guy to try to think for the lunatic fringe." I said, "I have no idea what they think," you know. So that, that's what it kind of took off. But I've always felt that there's 90% of Ohio State fans that whether they win or they lose, they're proud of them. And this, by the way, this isn't Ohio State, Dan. This, this is every fan base. There's a guy over here loves Florida. I'm sure there's Notre Dame, Michigan, Roll Tides here. Every fan base has that

• 8:30Speaker 02

  10% that we're all embarrassed of, you know, and.

• 8:36Speaker 02

  They do.

• 8:37Speaker 01

  It might be more than that, I don't know.

• 8:38Speaker 02

  I'm just being honest, they are, they're crazy.

• 8:41Speaker 01

  Nobody thinks they're part of that 10%, though.

• 8:44Speaker 02

  No, and listen, listen, I'm a Reds lunatic fringe fan.

• 8:48Speaker 01

  I've seen your tweets about the Reds.

• 8:49Speaker 02

  I have a strong thing, and then I'm like, delete, delete, delete. I'm a psychotic Reds fan, they won 6-4 tonight, so they're gonna have a winning, it was good. They're actually gonna have a winning nine-game road trip, which for us is monumental. I mean, that's monumental. Have you figured it out?

• 9:10Speaker 01

  I think so.

• 9:11Speaker 02

  I mean, how am I supposed to work with this? This is what I get. I mean, that...

• 9:17Speaker 01

  Come here, bud.

• 9:19Speaker 02

  Are you kidding me? I mean, look.

• 9:23Speaker 02

  So I'm a lunatic fringe member myself, so I get it, I understand it. We all come from a good place, but when things don't go well, it's like, here we go again, you know, kind of thing, so I understand, it's emotion. But it's not Ohio, it's Michigan has it, everybody has it. I just think when you do my job and you're trying to be kind of even and the voice of reason and try to be the, kind of the conscious of the sport, it's, when you take bullets all the time, you just, it's almost like when the season starts in September, you're, you know, you have an ability to kind of withstand, and then it just kind of keeps going and going and going, and by late October, you're just like, you're ready to swing, you

• 10:06Speaker 02

  know, and so you have to be careful of engaging. I love to engage on social media, but I don't want to say something rude and be disrespectful, so I, I'm better off just avoiding it, because it's so easy to just tell people to F off, you know, just like, because they're just so rude. So I just, what I do is I mute them, or I block them, and just kind of move on.

• 10:30Speaker 01

  You just mentioned, you know, we all come from somewhere, SDP said that that night, so like, again, humanized you, you also come from here. We see fellow Central Football players here, head coach Ben Allery, new head coach John Puckett. A lot of the boys here, you know, we both were lucky enough to play for the legendary Bob Gregg and Ron Ullery and we could talk about that for two and a half hours, I know.

• 10:54Speaker 02

  What's your, what's your memory of playing for those two?

• 10:57Speaker 01

  Oh my God.

• 10:58Speaker 02

  How'd they impact your life?

• 10:59Speaker 01

  I would say you learn. Coach Ullery was always taking notes, always the first guy there, always the most prepared person, and he injected confidence in us that we knew we were the most prepared, most in shape, most resilient team every Friday night. And the cool thing about that, and I'd love to hear you talk about this, is that is portable for the rest of your life. You can take what you learned in your, those formative years and do that for the rest of your life, be resilient. I mean, as I said, you're the most prepared guy in, in all of sports and all of broadcasting, all the Emmys or whatever, but to me, I have to believe that that, some of that stemmed from Bob Gregg and Ron Ullery.

• 11:43Speaker 02

  I think that's why I'm such an advocate for high school football because of my own experience.

• 11:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:49Speaker 02

  Because it's not just about trying to get a scholarship and, and going on and going, trying to get to the NFL. It's about, about what these guys are doing. Like, I don't know if you still do it, but when I was going through, we would get up in the summer at five in the morning. I mean, it was still dark out and, you know, your buddies that didn't play football, they're at a party, they're probably getting in at five and you're, you're just getting ready to get up and go, go work out. And it's a massive sacrifice. And you don't know if you're going to become a starter or not. Everybody's there. We're all doing it together. And that's why I'm so big on, on simple, old school values like hard work and facing perseverance and facing adversity and just getting knocked down and

• 12:30Speaker 02

  getting back up and loving your teammates and not getting caught up in your own accolades. I mean, I started, probably like you, I started to get a little bit of a run, was I think the Journal of Herald or the Dayton Daily News, be in the paper, be on Channel 7, Omar Williams, Channel 2. And Bob Gregg would be like, "Yeah, Mr. Hollywood, here he comes." "He's a golden boy here."

• 12:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, the golden boy.

• 12:52Speaker 02

  And I'm like, like, I'm not the golden boy. Like, I want no attention. And that's why, you know, I, to this day, I hate attention. Like if I walk into a room, my goal was to get from A to B as quiet as I can. Like, like

• 13:06Speaker 01

  How does that guy choose to go be on TV for a living?

• 13:09Speaker 02

  I know, I know. That's, that's, I love what I do, doing, you know, being recognized is just kind of part of it, but I think it goes back to Bob Gregg and Ron Allrie. Just, they didn't tear your knees out, but they just made sure as a 16, 17, 18-year-old that you knew, this ain't about you.

• 13:29Speaker 01

  Right.

• 13:29Speaker 02

  It's about us. And I, it just, I don't know, it's, it's, it's one of those things that, on game day, on, on everything I do, it's those values. I'm sure you do the same thing.

• 13:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:42Speaker 02

  So like I'm doing Amazon with Al Michaels and I'm doing game day, and I'm doing Saturday Night Football with Chris Fowler. I mean, these are three behemoths in my industry. And most people have one, and it takes everything you have to do that, that one. And so, man, I go right back to Bob Gregg and Ron Allrie and, and that, that program. That, that's how, that's how, I, I think what these guys are going through, it's not about social media. It's not about, you know, what are you, what star are you? It's about the values that you learn and how it's going to impact you down your life. And maybe it's hard to see that, but you and I see it when you, when you get out. So Bob Gregg and Ron Allrie and all those guys, they impacted just thousands of kids that, that didn't go on to play college football or, and

• 14:27Speaker 01

  They, they normalized really hard work and being very prepared and being able to bounce back when it doesn't go your way. They normalized that. So now when you go out into the world and what's just normal for you is actually not normal for everybody else.

• 14:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:41Speaker 01

  That's the thing I'm most grateful for.

• 14:43Speaker 02

  That's great.

• 14:43Speaker 01

  Most grateful is the fact that like,

• 14:44Speaker 02

  That's all you know.

• 14:45Speaker 01

  This is what we do. And that's what I want to ask you about. Like, can you actually walk through a week in season? I know Ali probably like, oh God, I don't see him. But like, walk through a week, because you have to prepare for three behemoths, as you said. Thursday night with the legendary Al Michaels NFL games, different sport than college. Then Saturday game day, which is the show to watch to get ready. And then you go to the game Saturday night. So what's your prep process like throughout the week?

• 15:10Speaker 02

  It's just, you know, my four boys, I have one still at the house, he's about to leave. So you try to balance out family with with your job like everybody in this room. Those four months are the toughest just because every minute, when I didn't do NFL, Sunday was like a unplugged day, collapse on the couch after the week of game day and the Saturday night game and just watch the NFL, but really maybe watch the Bengals and then really dial in on the on the Sunday night game and then watch highlights of the other games. And now if I'm doing Chargers Raiders next week and the Chargers are playing the Broncos and the Raiders are playing the Dolphins, I'm sitting there on Sunday off of a couple

• 15:53Speaker 02

  hours of sleep dialed into those games, you know. And so it it starts on Sunday, your week of prep, and then by the time you wake up on Monday, you guys ever have those weeks where you wake up Monday at 7:30 or 8:00 and you're behind? That's that's kind of where I start every single week. I wake up and I'm just like, I'm behind. And it's just kind of a sprint. It's like if you get on a treadmill, you guys ever get on a treadmill and you can walk in 3.5 or 3.8 or 4, or you could sprint at 10 or 11 or 12? I feel like I'm on a treadmill at 11 for like four months. And then it's funny, and then on January 21st, I don't ease it down to 7 to 6, I go from 11 to 0.

• 16:35Speaker 02

  You know, like it just stops for eight months. And then I I take him for a walk with with all his other guys and I love to go to the woods with these guys. But yeah, my normal week is just if I'm awake and Ally or the boys don't have something going on, I'm on the phone with the producer, I'm on the phone with the quarterback, I'm talking to a coach. It's really just nonstop. The hard part is juggling Al Michaels Thursday night, all those notes, because we do a Zoom. If we're doing the Chiefs and they're on the road, we got Andy Reid for 20 minutes, you got Patrick Mahomes for 20 or 30 minutes, their defensive lineman, maybe Chris Jones for 20 or 30 minutes. And then you do, it's really hard to explain, it's just not, it's just nonstop preparation.

• 17:20Speaker 02

  Because my thing is, I'm not a guy that was a Heisman winner. You know, when I first started a game day in 96, I could choose to be embarrassed of who I was on national TV, or choose to have a bit of a chip on my shoulder. I was kind of a chip on my shoulder guy my whole life. So I chose, instead of like, when I started in 1996 on college game day, unless you were a Big Ten fan, you had no idea who I was. So my idea of like, trying to build my brand was, they're gonna know me from my workout ethic. They're gonna know me like, damn, I don't know who that dude is, but he seems to know what he's talking about. Like, that was my goal. And to this day, I mean, I still try to be the guy that's, like you said, the most prepared.

• 18:03Speaker 02

  So if I'm talking Kansas State one segment, Missouri, UCLA, Texas, Florida State, like whoever we're talking about, I want to try to be overly prepared. Because the conversation on game day could go anywhere. You know, they give you an idea of where it might go, but Desmond might say something, and I'm like, all of a sudden I'm gonna react to that. Or Nick Saban might say something, and I gotta react to that. And if you're not prepared, you don't know where it's going. And you don't know how to have information, to have credible comments. So I prepare 100%, and I use 20% for all three shows. So the amount of hours that takes for me to feel confident,

• 18:48Speaker 02

  and again, I didn't even go to an NFL camp. And here I am calling NFL games as the expert game analyst. And so, and I'm working with freaking Al Michaels. You know, so like, that was a, that was a behemoth, using that word behemoth again, that was a big step for me in my career, to be confident. But luckily, it was late in my career, I'd accomplished some things, and Al looked at me as an equal to him. And I looked at him like, wow, you know, and I'd worked with Mike Tirico. My four people that I've called games with are Mike Tirico, Brent Musburger, Chris Fowler, and Al Michaels. Those are the only four people I've ever called games with in my entire career.

• 19:34Speaker 02

  So by the time I got to Al, I'd been with Mike Tirico, I'd been with Brent Musburger, Chris Fowler. So it felt like, even though I was...

• 19:45Speaker 02

  Intimidated because it's a step up to the NFL and it's Al Michaels. I still felt with the work ethic, I'm gonna be okay. And so.

• 19:53Speaker 01

  I think a phrase that's out there now that's more common is imposter syndrome. People are a little nervous about like, do I belong? It's hard to believe that you would ever feel like, but do you? Did you the first night on Amazon, the first NFL game? Do you ever fit that sense of like, I don't know?

• 20:06Speaker 02

  Well, I'm deferential by nature.

• 20:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:09Speaker 02

  So I am very, I don't deserve your respect in my brain until you earn it.

• 20:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:19Speaker 02

  Maybe that's not how they view it, but that's how I view it. So in the NFL, I was super, like the first game I called, college game, I walk out, he's with me. Ben used to be with me. We just, not to be cocky, but I know the boundaries. I know where I can go in the pregame. Teams are warming up, balls are flying through the air. You know, if Ali's with me, I'll say, come on out. You know, it's just a very comfortable setting for me. NFL, I'm calling the first game, I think, oh my gosh, it was Chargers Chiefs in Kansas City. Chiefs won the Super Bowl the year before. And I have no idea how I'm gonna be accepted. And I'm on the field pregame. I don't know, am I allowed to? I'm standing

• 21:01Speaker 02

  on the sidelines. And I'm like, with my spotter, I'm like, I don't know, are we allowed to go? The teams, teams are warming up. Mahomes is right over there. Justin Herbert's over there. And I'm like, are we allowed to go out there and say hi? I mean, there's other people out there. So I just kind of, first few weeks, I just kind of stayed over here and waited. And then Mahomes came over. This was cool about my job. Mahomes comes over to jog in. He sees me. He's like, what's up? It's almost like I'm that uncle or relative that they haven't seen in a while because they, they look at me like I'm college football.

• 21:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:36Speaker 02

  And they miss college football. So they see me, they're like, oh my God, what's up? You know, and it's, that really helped me.

• 21:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:43Speaker 02

  Be like, oh shit. Like they're, they're cool here. Like I, I belong in the arena. That probably helped me as much as anything is just them. Making me feel like, you know, you're part of this.

• 21:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:56Speaker 02

  And now, I've done it for three years, so now it's very different now than where it was in that first year.

• 22:01Speaker 01

  We're gonna open up in a second. I'll ask one more question and then Terry, I think we'll open it up for you guys to ask some questions. So while you're gathering, I'll go one more. So Kirk, I confirm this and I was rereading your book this morning and this is the guy, for those who haven't read it yet, you should by the way, but for those who haven't, that decided to take a zero in a public or a community English class when you had to give a speech, right? Take a zero out of 25% of your grade and you just gave it up because you were too afraid to give a speech in front of the class? This Kirk Herbstreit? Really? I need to hear more about this.

• 22:37Speaker 02

  Yeah. My senior year, I did not give, my name came up, Ms. Nythart, if she's here, she was the teacher. She asked me to give, it was my turn to give a speech and I just said, "I'm good." And she said, "You're good?" And I said, "Yeah, I'm good." And she said, "It's 25% of your final grade." And I said, "Okay, like I'm not doing it." And she's like, "Kirk, you really need to do it." And I said, "I was like, now you're making it worse because now I'm getting like attention, just like, please move on." So I got a zero on that. And I blame it on my ninth grade year when I was, I don't know if Chit Kasano is still here, anybody in my class?

• 23:21Speaker 02

  They'll remember this name. You'll remember this name. There was a girl, Centerville has very pretty girls when you're in high school. Ninth grade, there was a girl named Leo Usasian. And I hope she's not here, but it was my turn to give a speech in ninth grade. And I was like, "Oh, okay, I'm not comfortable, but I guess I gotta do it." So I stumbled up to the front of the class and I had some no cards and I run hot. Like, normal temperatures, what, 98.6? I run at like 100, just in general. So I'm the guy, when it's February, windows open, air conditioning on. If college game day's in Baton Rouge, it's 100. I got air conditioning things below.

• 24:04Speaker 02

  I'm just always hot. I'm hot right now. It's just the way I am. And I walk up to the front of the room and I'm sweating and I start to talk and my face gets really red because I'm, I just, that's what happens when you get embarrassed. And my face turns red. She's sitting right here. And in the middle of my speech, she goes, "Oh, my gosh, look how red his face is."

• 24:29Speaker 02

  And I officially retired from speeches that moment. I was just like...

• 24:35Speaker 01

  What is she thinking now?

• 24:36Speaker 02

  I don't know. I was like, "I will never, I'll never do that rest of my life." And to this day, if Terry would have asked me to stand up here and give a speech for 20 minutes, I would have been like, "I'm good." I was like, "Is it moderated? Ryan can maybe come in?" I'm like, "I'm in." So she scarred me when I was 14 years old, to this day.

• 24:57Speaker 01

  I think you turned out all right. Terry, do we want to open it up?

• 25:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, absolutely. I'm actually...

• 25:03Speaker 01

  Oh, you go first.

• 25:04Speaker 03

  Kirk, I would love for you to tell everybody how the book came into existence, one, that process-wise, and one, you publish your top team.

• 25:13Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, and I've been asked over the years to write a book by different authors that had approached me, different ideas. And then when COVID hit, Gene Wojciechowski, who is a reporter on College Game Day, he asked me, he writes books, and he said, "I'd really love to write a book with you. We have some time now. This might be a good time for you to reflect. Would you consider?" I said, "Let me, let me think about it." The world was, as we all remember, everything was closed down and we really didn't know what was going on. And I, after thinking about it for a few weeks, I decided to take him up on it. And he wanted to just kind of tell my story of, you know, my life,

• 25:57Speaker 02

  going back to when I was a kid, with my mom, my sister, my brother, my dad, and just kind of all the way through, some of the obstacles we faced. And I think what he wanted me to do was give examples to show people... You know, the appearance that you give on air versus what your life was like is very different. And I think people would love to hear some of the stuff that you had to go through in order to get to where you are. And so, he said, "The only thing is you gotta be comfortable with being vulnerable." Like, we really have to open up some topics that you probably haven't thought about, you know, in thirty, forty years. So, I said, "Okay, I would do it."

• 26:41Speaker 02

  But I don't think I really understood, as we went way back, and he talked with my mom, he talked with my sister, he found a lot of stories out. So, by the time he got to me, and he came to my house for, I don't know, four or five days, by the time he got to me, he was bringing things up that my mom maybe shared with him, or my sister shared with him, going way back. You know, my parents divorced when I was about, I think, maybe eight or nine years old. And it was a pretty traumatic experience for our family. And I think a lot of people, you know, whether they're adults going through divorce, or kids, you know, you're worried about your kids. I just opened up, and he's just saying, "All right." I opened up and talked about that. I talked about my time at Ohio State, and, you know, I came out as if they did stars

• 27:26Speaker 02

  back then, whatever. I mean, I would've been a, you know, a five-star guy that was supposed to walk in and play right away, and I didn't. You know, and I opened up about falling flat on my face, and what that experience was like. And the whole point was just trying to reach people that maybe were going through hard times. You know, my wife and I, when we had our twins, they were our first boys, they were born at two pounds, you know, each, at twenty-eight weeks. So, I could take my ring, I remember taking my ring, going down their foot, all the way up to their hip bone. And their skin was transparent, you could see their organs. And so, there are people that spend time in the NICU, you know. I didn't, you know, you hear about NICU, and you think, "Oh, my gosh."

• 28:08Speaker 02

  And then your kids are in the NICU, and you're, they're holding on, fighting for their lives, and you go through it. And I thought, "Man, to maybe share that experience, maybe that'll help, you know, people out there that are..." So, anyway, we had a bunch of stuff. You know, the Ohio State stuff, I talked about, I went to a sports psychologist when no one, no one did that. You know, and I remember going in to see him. He changed my career. And I remember walking into his office, like, making sure none of my boys, or nobody saw me, like, going in there, and they're, like, clowning on me, that I'm going to see a sports psychologist. That was nineteen ninety-one, nineteen ninety, ninety-one. And so I thought, man, I didn't even think, I guess I do have a few stories that are pretty

• 28:49Speaker 02

  relatable, you know, and, and so we got together and we talked a lot. I don't know. You said you've read it. It's not a how to book at all. It's more of this is my experiences. This is what I've been through and just sharing those.

• 29:04Speaker 01

  I give you huge props for how vulnerable you got.

• 29:07Speaker 02

  I appreciate it.

• 29:08Speaker 01

  Because it's, as you said before, we're getting ready for this. Like, hey, get, do the juicy stuff. That's better than just the boring stuff. But like you did that in your book, you know, and that's scary. And people are going to judge you and they may judge you and you're just putting yourself out there. And I think that's really hard to do. But that makes it, it makes it a better book because it's more real, right? It's actually what happened.

• 29:24Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. And, and I, I, I had to talk about Ohio State coaches, you know, the, the only people that I had to be honest, where it was uncomfortable, were a couple of Ohio State coaches and, and a guy I worked with in broadcasting and I, I, I, I told, I said, are you going to edit this? Are you, am I going to be able to read this? He said, yeah, of course. So I told him everything and then I read it and I was like, no, we can't, we can't say that. And then he, he went back, tweaked it a little bit and then I read it again. I was like, oh my God, I, I just don't feel, and he's like, listen, part of writing a book is being honest. If you're not honest, then it's not, the reader is going to sense

• 30:09Speaker 02

  that. I'll tell you the hardest part was I had to, if, if you've not read it, or I, I ended up doing the book on audio.

• 30:15Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 30:15Speaker 02

  So I, I had to go through that and just to read the words and go through it, you know, it, it was, number one, challenging to do that and, um, pretty, pretty emotional to read that story out loud.

• 30:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:30Speaker 02

  So, yeah, it was, it was a good experience for sure.

• 30:33Speaker 01

  Terry?

• 30:34Speaker 03

  We're going to class him right over here.

• 30:36Speaker 04

  Hello. My name is Stephanie Lettle and you were talking about Poet Alrey, which he ended up going to Springbrough and he coached our child, our son, who's now going to be a junior. Very instrumental in his life, very impactful. My question is, with the NFL draft, beyond the Sander situation, were there any other surprises for you that you, was kind of shocking?

• 31:01Speaker 02

  Oh, man. Let me think.

• 31:09Speaker 02

  I would say, as a Bengals fan, I was surprised they didn't get more offensive linemen to protect Joe Burrow. I did, I mean, I did like that they addressed the defense, because, I mean, that was the, that was a concern, obviously, last year, but I don't, I don't know. And the Sanders stuff, I mean, that was, that was kind of crazy for a lot of people. Yeah, that was, that was wild.

• 31:38Speaker 02

  We'll see how that, you know, they also drafted Dylan Gabriel, who I'm a huge fan of. A little short, but quick decision-maker, very accurate. You know, if you watch the Ohio, if your only experience with Dylan Gabriel is the Ohio State game, it was almost like the field was like that. Ohio State was on a roll. If you remember Dylan Gabriel in Eugene, he played pretty well. He's very accurate, he can move around. He's just short. I mean, if he were 6'2", everyone would be probably putting him in the first round. He played at UCF, that's the world we're in, UCF, Oklahoma, and Oregon. Started at all three places, which is really strange. I mean, sometimes the portal...

• 32:20Speaker 02

  I think he's looking, honestly, I think he's looking for squirrels.

• 32:25Speaker 02

  Here he comes.

• 32:28Speaker 02

  But no, there's, there's really, this just wasn't one of those years where there were so many big names that you were surprised, other than Shador Sanders. So, nothing really, I'd have to go back to give you a great answer, but nothing stood out to me. It was great to be there. I was there first round Thursday night. Nick Saban, me, Dez, and Reese Davis did it on ABC. We had a blast. We do it very differently. We, guy gets drafted, we celebrate the player, we talk to his mom, we talk to his sister, we show you a story about maybe some, some kind of difficult thing in his career that he had to overcome. We don't really break down, you know, oh, they need this, or they need that. It was really more about the players. Kind of a college game day spin on the draft is what we do on ABC.

• 33:11Speaker 02

  And we, we had a blast, so it was cool. Green Bay's such a great town. Just that, you would not believe where Lambeau Field is, right? I mean, it's in the middle... It's like a village, you know, it's just like neighborhood Lambeau. If you like Lambeau Field being right over there. It's the wildest thing where most of these NFL stadiums are in a huge downtown. It's just, it's like in a little suburb. It's cool.

• 33:36Speaker 03

  Good question. Thank you so much.

• 33:39Speaker 05

  Hi Kirk. Being a lifelong college football fan, it feels like with NIL and the recent decision that they're going to be able to pay them from the schools, that we're in a different sport almost. What's your take on that?

• 33:55Speaker 02

  I'm a traditionalist, so all this was difficult to digest, but I look at it like I'm not retiring. So I can put my head in the sand and just say, this isn't right, this isn't fair. Or I can try to get my arms around it, try to be understanding, which I've done. I'm not a fan of collectives. I'm not a fan of pay for play. I'm not a fan of going and buying a player to bring him to your school. Think that's stupid. I don't think it's right or healthy or sustainable. I am a fan of if Jeremiah Smith becomes Jeremiah Smith after he gets there and becomes maybe the biggest name in the sport and he can go make, not because it's hey, here, here's whatever you need.

• 34:39Speaker 02

  It's Pepsi wants to do something with him, whoever. Like if he can make money in marketing, which is name, image and likeness, it's marketing. So if he can create money for himself, I think we've all gotten to a point where that makes sense. But not a guy is over at Bowling Green and he's an All-American and LSU needs a left guard and they're just like, how much, how much does it take? A lot of these guys, these five stars, they're taking, to me, they're looking at their lives like this and not looking at it 40 years down the road. They're just looking at it right here. And they have, whether it's parents or agents, they're just trying to get as much as they can. And going back to some of the life lessons I learned from Bob Gregg and Ron Alrie in

• 35:23Speaker 02

  this program here, sometimes that might be the right answer. Joe Burrow left Ohio State. He wasn't going to get an opportunity. Made sense for him. Dwayne Haskins went ahead of him after J.T. Barrett left. It worked out great for him. There's plenty of examples where it works. I just don't think the first sign of adversity, you should leave. I think you have to fight through that adversity. I just don't believe in leaving your teammates. It's so foreign to me that that's even in play. So that part of it's really difficult. So I don't want to say I don't believe in NIO. I don't believe in transfer portal because I think sometimes it applies. But I just don't, I think if you take a coach, these coaches are a little bit hesitant on how hard they're going to be on these guys because

• 36:08Speaker 02

  they don't want to believe. Imagine being a coach and you're worried about, is this guy going to leave if I really do what I want to do with him? And so that's a concern for me. The whole thing, I think, where we're going in hopefully two or three years, hopefully it's different from right now. Like the NFL, there are rules, right? There's free agency. Like if Brock Purdy, who makes 850,000 in the middle of a Super Bowl run, decides at week eight, I don't want to play anymore. I'm a pro bowler. You're only paying me 850. I'm worth 50 million. Why am I going to play? Either get my contract right or I'm not playing next week against Philly. You imagine if that happened? That's what college football

• 36:52Speaker 02

  players are doing. Complete BS. The players went from our era, you had no say, to now they have all the say. All the say. So to put it in our perspective as parents, if you have kids, imagine if your kids were, I don't know, 12 years old and they're like, hey, I need the keys to the car. And you're like, I'm your parent. You can't drive. You're 12. And the kid's like, oh, really? Give me the keys or I'm going, so I'm going to go live somewhere else. And you're like, what? No, no. And the kid has all the power. You have no power. No, please don't leave. Don't leave. Does that make sense? That's

• 37:32Speaker 02

  what college football is right now. The 12-year-olds are deciding what they want to do. And you're the parent going, okay, whatever you say.

• 37:43Speaker 02

  It's like the world is upside down right now when it comes to that aspect of it. What's crazy is you still turn a college football game on on Saturday, the marching bands come out, the uniforms come out, and we still go crazy. So as much as they're trying to kill the sport, I don't know if it's ever been more popular. So what I think the players are underestimating is what we all digest. They're great players, but I hate to say this, they're a dime a dozen. Like, you're on a conveyor belt as a player. There's other players coming right behind you. As long as that Ohio State uniform is in play, or that Michigan, or that Notre Dame fight song, or that US, that's all fans care about. So, they're important, but they're not, they don't deserve all the say, like

• 38:28Speaker 02

  they have right now. They need to learn some things and go through some tough times because it's for their own good. When they get older and become employees, whether it's the NFL or in the real world, they become husbands, they become fathers. This is hurting them long-term, not helping them. So, they gotta, they gotta fix it. And by the way, who fixes it? The NCAA doesn't fix it. The conference commissioners are supposed to be in charge, but Greg Sankey's worried about his constituents in the SEC. Tony Petiti's worried about the Big Ten. No one's worried about the global view of the sport. They're worried about

• 39:08Speaker 02

  their region. So how the heck are we gonna fix this? Who's in charge? That's probably my biggest concern is, we're coming up with all these great ideas, but who do we present them to? No one's, no one's the boss. And everyone's afraid to be the boss because they're afraid of litigation. Because if you stand up to a player, his agent, you get sued. Or you're getting threatened to get sued. So then you go, okay, go back to the 12, you're 12 years old, you wanna drive? Go drive. That's, that's where we are.

• 39:41Speaker 06

  Haker, question for ya, and first of all, thanks for not forgetting where you came from. We're all real proud.

• 39:46Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 39:51Speaker 02

  Thanks buddy, thanks.

• 39:53Speaker 06

  My name is Scott Vaughn and I want to ask you, I know this is Coach Corso's last, he's going to do one more show. I know you have a special relationship with him. Could you share some of that and then also maybe your favorite Lee Corso story?

• 40:08Speaker 02

  Man, I would love to pull up my, I don't know if you can pull up my favorite Lee Corso story, but if you Google "Lee Corso F-bomb", it would probably be mine.

• 40:18Speaker 01

  It's a great video.

• 40:21Speaker 02

  If your team can pull that up, that would be priceless. So, Lee Corso is 89 years old, he'll be 90 August 7th. Here's what's crazy is he came back, he did me a favor, I don't know if you guys still do the Sonny Younger Award. We used to do something called the Sonny Younger Award at Centerville, it was a fundraiser. Sonny Younger was a former Centerville Elk and he was in Vietnam, lost his life. And I guess Bob Gregg or the families of the football players came up years ago, maybe in the 70s with a fundraiser. So anyway, when I started to work at ESPN, probably right around when you were playing,

• 41:01Speaker 02

  we decided to try to bring whoever it might be. I had Mike Tirico come back with me one year, I had Chris Fowler, Lee Corso, I had Mike Vrabel. But we just, every year we were trying to like, what should we do this year, kind of thing. We kept trying to raise the bar. Well, one year Corso came back, did an amazing job. And a week later, he had a stroke and really never, has never really fully recovered. And I think our relationship before was me looking at him and him having his arm around me. Not just on air, but I think where our relationship really changed was off air. When I got married, I would ask him questions. You know, we'd be in the back of a car going to a photo shoot.

• 41:43Speaker 02

  And I didn't know him that well, but he was a really good listener, so I would just bring up stuff. And I always call him like Yoda or like Don Corleone, you know, he's kind of petting a cat as you tell him a story. He's this Italian, big Italian presence and here I am, just like, "Here's my thing this time," you know, and he just is like, listening to me. But he's really listening. Picture Don Corleone, you know, just like, listening. And then he would say like, two sentences, and I'd be like, "Oh, okay, alright," and I would just, so time after time, he would do that. I remember my kids, you know, my kids like to play with Legos, you know, I'm throwing them a ball and they, you know, "Are they gonna play ball?" And he's like, "Play Legos. Play Legos with them. They wanna play Legos, play Legos."

• 42:27Speaker 02

  You know, he's like, he's like, "You're building a new house? Good for you, that's great." He goes, "Have you decided what you're gonna do in the rooms?" I was like, you know, he's like, "Whatever Allison says, you just go, 'Okay, sounds good.'" He goes, "She wants purple pillows?" "Purple pillows, okay, sounds good," he's like, "All you do is nod your head." So, anyway, there were just millions of those kind of stories over the years. So, when you talk about life with somebody, it changes from just sitting next to him and working. So, our on-air relationship really changed. And I always, he was my mentor, I always watched him, he's putting the headgear on and I'm, like, I'm just sitting there watching, learning how he does things, without him really coaching me, I'm just watching. And, I think after the stroke,

• 43:13Speaker 02

  they didn't know if he'd ever come back, because he couldn't speak. After the stroke, he slowly got his words back, and I just, it wasn't like we had a discussion, I'd just be sitting next to him and he'd get caught on a word, and I would just try to subtly, like, interrupt him in a funny way, or just try to, whatever I could do to just kind of, just quietly, just kind of give him a little nudge, or just a little, just a little crutch, for him to kind of gather himself and just finish his thought. And I didn't really think anything of it, I think, you've probably done the same thing, it's just what you do, you know, and... And I think over time, that was 15 years ago. So imagine, maybe some of you either have been through a stroke or you know people.

• 43:56Speaker 02

  So his cognitive thinking at 89 is firing. I mean, he knows everything. He just can't get his words out. So if you, you younger guys, you don't realize what Lee Corso was. Lee Corso was hot takes before we knew what hot takes were. Like, he was the guy that said something and everyone was like, "Oh my God, I can't believe he just said that." Like, he was that guy without trying to be that guy. He is an icon in our industry. I was so fortunate to sit next to him and, and watch him and learn so much from him. And just build a relationship over time. It didn't happen overnight. I mean, this is my 29th year, this is my 30th year this year on the show. And we just build a rapport and a love for one another. But our roles changed after the stroke. I tried to take care of him.

• 44:41Speaker 02

  After all those years, he took care of me. And the last few years have been tough. You know, Nick Saban came on the show. Pat McAfee now is on the show. Like, the vibe of the show from when I started with Chris Fowler, young Lee Corso, myself, Chris Felica, Tom Rinaldi, Gene Wojciechowski, eventually Desmond came on, David Pollock, you know. All those people are gone with the exception of Desmond. So I'm like the last person that I started with on the show. So the vibe is, is different. Doesn't mean it's better or worse, it's just different. And Lee decided that he's gonna do one more show. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it's Ohio State-Texas.

• 45:22Speaker 02

  Cause he started with, with the Brutus headgear that Ali helped get him to wear that, that first time. And it would be the last time, you know. The challenge there is that is currently a noon kick. As much as you guys don't like those noon kicks, it's, which would be great for this moment. 100,000 people in that stadium. He comes out to do his last pick, puts the headgear on. 100,000 people could be symbolic of the nation showing their love for him. I think that would be so fitting to end his, his run like that. I'm hoping it stays at a Saturday noon. I think Ohio State's trying to get it to be moved to a night game, so I have no idea how that'll play out.

• 46:04Speaker 02

  But I think our hope is that it's in Columbus. And it would be just an awesome, awesome moment. But he's my guy, love him to death and he's a... And I'll tell you, when he retired, he doesn't, he doesn't have a computer. Like, he does, forget social media, he has a flip phone. He knows nothing other than what his family or I tell him. And I, I reached out to him and I was like, he still faxes, you know, from his office.

• 46:31Speaker 02

  Really? Yeah, yeah, he has no idea what's happening.

• 46:36Speaker 02

  Which, by the way- It's kinda nice.

• 46:39Speaker 02

  I may graduate to that, but I had to reach out to him after he retired. It went public a couple of weeks ago, and I just, I knew he'd probably hear from him. He has four kids, I knew he'd probably hear from them, and I said, I had to call him and just say, "How are you? You doing alright?

• 46:54Speaker 02

  You, you, you gotta know what's going on out here." I mean, it was just an avalanche of love. Like, you guys know in social media, it's very rare to have 100% positivity about something. It was 100%. And I was just like, "Man, they are people, I just want you to know, they love you." You know, it's like, you need to know that. And he's just like, "Ah, ah, you know," he'd always change the subject, "Ah, I appreciate it." And then we talked about something else for about 15 or 20 minutes. And then I said, "Okay, man, I'll talk to you, I love you, buddy, take care." And he goes, "Hey, tell, tell everybody I appreciate that. It means a lot to me that they, that they did that." And I was like, "I'll let him know." So I sent out a tweet letting him know that, you know, people love him and are thinking about him. So, that's gonna be a rough show to get through, that last, last show.

• 47:40Speaker 07

  Hi, my name is Jeff Tronoskis, I'm representing Tenth here. OH?

• 47:47Speaker 07

  Thank you. Purdy, I appreciate that last drive against Michigan, I was in the stadium. Papa Joe's was rocking that night, so, and I was there.

• 47:57Speaker 02

  Papa Joe's, what a, what a spot.

• 47:59Speaker 07

  Yeah, that was-

• 48:01Speaker 02

  High energy, Park Alley.

• 48:03Speaker 07

  Oh yeah, I remember Mr. Mustard's or whatever. It's just not the same anymore.

• 48:07Speaker 02

  It's not, it's fancy.

• 48:08Speaker 07

  Security Fletcher's, you know, it's-

• 48:11Speaker 02

  It's nice and clean.

• 48:12Speaker 07

  We need like a bunch of trunk, trunk, trunk and stuber guys right here. But, you know, that, that was our, that was South Campus for us with the rope.

• 48:20Speaker 02

  Oh, it's so good.

• 48:21Speaker 07

  I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go back to when a couple of these gentlemen have asked you with regards to the state of college football. Obviously-

• 48:30Speaker 07

  Conference realignment, it seems like the Big Ten and the SEC and then maybe everybody else, you know, what is the thought process that you have with regards to that? I mean, plus the transfer portal, you've got guys playing football, basketball for six or seven years. I'm just wondering, you know, and then you've got Coach Saban, right? Legendary coach. I mean, when you guys are back channels and stuff like that, is, was that a motivation to retire or was because the landscape, he just doesn't play that way? Which I appreciate the work ethic, you earned. I'm just interested to hear what you guys do when the cameras are off and you're actually honest with each other and you don't have social media or whatever.

• 49:12Speaker 07

  You know, what's the state with Coach Saban and, you know, Coach K stepped away, Coach Williams in other sports or whatever, you know? The landscape is just to the point where, shoot, I kinda wanna go back to college if I ask. But I'm interested to hear your take on that, so I appreciate it, thank you.

• 49:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, I appreciate the question. How fun is that though? I mean, it was tough during the time, but to go from 12 to eventually 10 and 8 and then into that starting lineup. I mean, it's great, you must have played for a great coach to recognize that you're working, you earned that. Instead of just labeling you, you know, you're just kind of a grunt, like he saw that. So that's great that he did that. And by the way, that impacted you the rest of your life. And that's what I'm talking about, we're taking that away. We're not, some of the advisors are taking that away, I think, from some of these guys. Yeah, Coach Saban is very misunderstood because he was the head coach of Alabama when they won all their games. I know Coach Saban incredibly well.

• 50:14Speaker 02

  That's one of the cool things about my job is getting to know these coaches. And he was a guy that, early in his career at Michigan State, he just, he and I, there we go, Sparty.

• 50:26Speaker 02

  We got everybody here. We got Sparty here. But he and I go all the way up to Michigan State. And he and I would have very, very candid conversations. He knew he could trust me and he could be open with me going way back to that era, all the way through LSU, beginning of Alabama. And so, he and I talked very, very honest with one another. He got out. A lot of it had to do with just not, I mean, he related to players for a long time. But I think he got to a point with all the changes at the stage of his career, with all he had accomplished. Not because, "Well, we were cheating and now everyone's cheating. This isn't..." That's like bullshit social media stuff that's not real. That's not why he got out. He got out because he couldn't do what he did. Have you ever go to a practice in Nick Saban?

• 51:11Speaker 02

  It is hard. Like, it is... If you're thinking about quitting and you go to a Tuesday or Wednesday practice, you're probably gonna quit. Because he's gonna attack you and really test you. And the guys that are there to get better, they get through it and become great players. And the guys that don't, they end up leaving. And I think it became more and more apparent he was struggling to relate to the way he likes to coach. And so, I think he just thought it was the right time. By the way, he'd been calling me for the last three or four years prior to that. Like, "Hey, Mo, what do you think about college game day? You know, you think you have something on you?" And I was like, "Hey, you'd be great. I think you'd be great. I think you'd be a natural."

• 51:54Speaker 02

  And so, we've been talking. After every season, he would call me and talk to me about him, think, "I might do it, let's see." So, it's really been trending to a direction. But I think when you get to that stage in your career and you accomplish so much, I think you wake up one day. I don't think you have a plan. I think you just wake up one day maybe and say, "I think that's it. I don't have what I used to have. I think I need to, for my players' sake, I need to get out." And I think that's kind of what hit him. He's more concerned, you talk about a guy that loves college football. And wants to get it right. I don't think he sleeps at night because of the state of college football. He, if anybody can save it, it's him. Like he's, he's like, he's

• 52:39Speaker 02

  trying his everything he can to fix the sport. And, and still in a way to help players, but not chaos. And so, I don't know if that'll ever happen. Whatever he says, I just like, shake his hand, turn him around, "Keep going buddy, you can do it, you can do it." Like, if anybody gives us any hope, it's him. So, pray at night for Nick Saban to try to figure out, as much as you may hate him, pray at night for Nick Saban to fix where we are currently because he really does, he cares about the coaches, cares about the sport, cares about

• 53:19Speaker 02

  the players. His heart is in the right spot, always has been. He is another guy I'm lucky to work with now, but just lucky to cover. I used to call him after he'd won a championship, and I'm just like, "How do you get your guys not to talk to the other team?" Like, like all these other teams, they'll catch you five yard out, the DB will make a play, and they get up to talk all kinds of junk. Alabama, they just hit you into the ground and drive you into the ground, and then they get back in a huddle. And he's like, "It's simple." He goes, if they, he goes, "When, when we're in practice?" He goes, "I don't do that on Saturday." He goes, "And we're in practice, and a guy does that?" He doesn't ever do it again. He goes, "I, I tell them over and over, 'We are not here to talk to the other

• 54:01Speaker 02

  team. You can talk to your own team. But if I ever catch you talking to the other team, you're done.'" And they're just like, "Yes, sir." So, maybe winning all those championships, and the way he delivers the message, I'm guessing they don't want to test him. But I always appreciated the way Alabama carried themselves, and not only beat you, but they beat you in like, old school way. So, he is a great man, great for the sport, great for College Game Day, but he is frustrated with where we are as much as anybody. And with his connections, I'm hopeful that, that he'll, he'll be able to try to get something done.

• 54:37Speaker 03

  Great, we have a question.

• 54:38Speaker 08

  My name is Josh Bogleman, I'm a big mental health advocate. So I wanted both of you, if it's okay, with your busy schedules and how successful you are in your chosen field, what do you all do currently for your mental health? And how do you balance that with, as busy as you all are?

• 54:54Speaker 02

  It's a great question. For me, it's my faith. You know, I get tested a lot. And I don't want to get involved in politics anyway. But there was an incident that really touched me, and I apologize if I offend anybody. But there was, we have twins, and there were twins down in, I think it was Frisco, Texas, and it tracked me. And one of them got, and I don't know the deal of what happened, one of them in a track meet got stabbed by another guy in the heart, and died right in front of his twin. And I just thought, I put myself in the shoes of that dad when I heard that story. And then I just happened to hear him speak.

• 55:39Speaker 02

  And the world we live in today, I thought, oh my gosh, like he, he's gonna be really emotional, go after this guy. And he was upset and emotional about losing his son, but he almost was like praying for the other guy. Like he forgave the other guy. And I was like, that's, that's like a whole different level of have your faith being tested. Because I feel like my faith really gets tested a lot when people come at me on social media. I didn't get into this line of work to, I just have, I'm really prepared, and I give opinions. And that's it. That's the end of the story. And I don't have an agenda.

• 56:21Speaker 02

  I don't have, I'm not smart enough to do some of the stuff that people say, but boy, when it happens time after time, you can get really resentful, and it can really affect you. So...

• 56:34Speaker 02

  My answer is a lot of times, delete the app. And that's not healthy.

• 56:38Speaker 07

  Right.

• 56:39Speaker 02

  That's like putting a Band-Aid on something. So I've just found daily devotional prayer and really trying to connect helps me. Helps me get to a point where I'm like, okay, I need to work on me to be able to get to that point where that dad is. You know what I mean? So it's that, that's, that and then just being, having very honest conversation with, with family and friends and opening up. I'm a guy that likes to have conversation. I like to open my heart up with the right people. I find that to be very helpful as well.

• 57:14Speaker 03

  I would also mention that I feel like your dogs for you are, you know, Peter, Honest and Good Peter and all the other guys, just such a comfort, especially on the road, I think.

• 57:26Speaker 02

  That's huge for me. In the woods, like some people like to be at a beach.

• 57:33Speaker 02

  And like see a sunset at the beach. I, I love the woods. You know, I love, and I, my dogs, and I'm on a trail and I'm in the woods. Like that, that probably as much as anything connects me from a spiritual standpoint to where I need to be. So I take a walk every day.

• 57:51Speaker 02

  And we're moving back. Our plan all along was to move back. We moved our son, youngest son up to go to high school and he's finishing right now. So that chapter is kind of closing. Our goal all along was to go back to our home in Nashville. We kept our house, so we're going to go back June 1st and we're excited about that. One of the things my wife and I talk about, we miss is there's a, a trail that, that we just love and we go to every day and we miss that so much. So, uh, yeah, I think there's a lot of, sorry, that's a long answer, but there's just a lot there. I appreciate the question, Josh. Do you have, do you have anything?

• 58:26Speaker 01

  Honestly, I think people don't all get the luxury of voluntary hardship. What I mean by that is we were put through incredibly tough things, I think, at Center for Football. That's why, why Kirk and I bonded so much and have ever since. But I think you gotta keep doing that stuff. So to me, like you talk about mental health, I think I need to choose to do really hard things every day to prove to myself that I can keep doing hard things so that when adversity strikes, I'm prepared. And so I always feel like punishing myself in the gym, running, lifting, reading. I've interviewed 630 of the world's most impactful leaders over the past 10 years. I wasn't as smart as any of those guys and girls.

• 59:10Speaker 01

  So to prepare and to get ready and to do the hard thing and then do the hard thing and then do the hard thing, I just think you gotta do hard things. I think you have to voluntarily choose to do the hard thing so that when adversity strikes, you're more prepared. When mentally like it's tough or, oh, I don't know if I can handle this. No, I've built evidence for myself. I build evidence for myself every single day because I choose to do hard things. So I think like that's, maybe that's not the nice fuzzy fun answer because it's hard, but I think it's the right answer. It is for me at least to say like, if I voluntarily choose to punish myself physically and mentally, whatever comes my way, I feel like, you know, I can't predict that, but I have a better chance of getting through it because I've done it before.

• 59:56Speaker 01

  I do it every day. And I think, you know, unfortunately, like gotten lazy, like too many people are lazy. Like, we gotta choose to do the hard thing on a regular basis. We do that. I like your odds of conquering whatever the thing that you don't want to happen. I like your chances of beating that if you're doing it every day leading up to those moments.

• 1:00:16Speaker 02

  And I'll just add for this group, just because I have, I have four sons and I have one that's senior in high school, like this generation, a lot of times they get ridiculed. I just found that this generation, I can't imagine going through what they go through, whether it's Snapchat and middle school and seeing all the emojis go to a party that you didn't get invited to. You imagine going through that in eighth grade? Or, you know, just everybody in your business and everything online? I just think if you're a parent of this age, just being there, listening, and you guys having some grace for yourselves, because Is really, none of us can relate to what you guys, you know what I'm saying?

• 1:00:57Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 1:00:58Speaker 02

  Nobody can relate to what you guys are going through. So, your coaches, your parents, just being in your corner, helping you get through.

• 1:01:04Speaker 01

  It's one of the best things about team sports, though. You get your guys, like, you got your guys, and you're lucky to have such good coaches. Like, I know you don't fully realize that right now, but, God, you're gonna, you'll realize it as you get older, like, man, we were so lucky. We were so lucky, the coaches, these guys care so much about you.

• 1:01:19Speaker 02

  And what seems traumatizing for you in 16 or 17, if you have coaches to help you get through it, or your parents get through it, you're gonna realize you're gonna be okay. It's like, it's probably paralyzing for you to go through it, maybe you know people, maybe you've gone through some yourself, but you guys, I cannot, I just, again, I think all of us look at you and think, keep, just stay strong. You know, like, for me, if I were your faith, going to church, talking to parents, talking to coaches, but just keep grinding, because it's not easy doing what you guys do. People are cruel, and you guys are in, you're like in a sewage, you know, of just a bunch of crap, and you're somehow trying to find a ladder to get out of it.

• 1:02:03Speaker 02

  And that's what a coach, or a parent, or your boys, that's who they are. They'll get you through it, but it's not easy, what you guys are dealing with. And I don't mean just sports, I'm talking social stuff. You know, you get to college football, and you play on national TV, and you miss a field goal, and the game's on the line, you get death threats, death threats. That's real. You know, Will Howard, he took a knee against Oregon, he played his ass off at Oregon, he took a knee, because he lost, lost a time, and he took death threats. Like, it's just insane that these people have a voice to get to you, and you just gotta

• 1:02:44Speaker 02

  somehow insulate yourself, you know, the best you can, because it's brutal.

• 1:02:49Speaker 09

  I think you have one last question. Hi, Kirk, Julie Benoit, I'm the Central Grab Buckeye alum, and big thanks to you for sharing your expertise tonight on football. Big thanks to your sister, because she's making the magic happen.

• 1:03:03Speaker 02

  No doubt. Yeah.

• 1:03:05Speaker 09

  And I think you've spoken really greatly about all of the important college football things tonight, right? But we are all dying to know, what is Peter's favorite treat?

• 1:03:21Speaker 02

  I tell ya, when I feed my dogs, it's become like a science project. After Ben died, he was 10 years old. And the way, you know, I felt like, you know, I'd love to see him live another four or five years, and it just happened so sudden from cancer. And the more people I talked to, the more people talked about how cancer is obviously such a big thing with us, but also for canines and all animals. And because I love dogs so much, I, you know, researching the ingredients and why is this happening? Actually, I'm doing a, he, not me, I'm with him. We have a three-day parina shoot, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, because of him. And a lot of it is about what you need to feed your dogs and trying to help dogs out.

• 1:04:06Speaker 02

  So, he is, you've never seen a dog attack a bowl of food the way he does. I've never, I've had dogs since my sister brought the first golden I had back in 1985, a dog named Megan, who was another gem of a dog. I've had a golden in my life since that day, moving forward. And this guy, I don't know if it's his big head or what it is, but he just, he attacks his food, just a sweetheart. They're all different. Their spirits and their energy are all just so different. You know, when Ben passed away, I took him to a Texas A&M game, and he was limping very, very noticeably after that game, like just literally the next day.

• 1:04:48Speaker 02

  And so, a friend of mine who lives in New York said, "Hey, I know a holistic doctor. You gotta get him over to New Jersey. This guy works miracles and da-da-da-da." So, I immediately flew to New Jersey and tried to do everything that I could for about four or five days. And it just, at that point, it was too late. And the very, you know, the season doesn't stop. So, that was on a Thursday. I was calling the Bengals at the Ravens when he died. And I went home for my son's game. I would go home after, after the Thursday games to get back to see Chase. And I thought, do I bring a dog out? I mean, he was, at the time, like... 13 months, never been out in public without all the dogs.

• 1:05:33Speaker 02

  I'm just because when I take him, I take him all, he's never been out solo. So I took him to a Centerville playoff game at Wynton Woods. I know they played Wynton Woods. And he went, I was like, I'm out to take him into the game. It was sold out. I took him in and he was totally chill in the game in the stands. He was just kind of like looking around. And I was headed to LSU Alabama in Baton Rouge, which is one of the most hostile environments that the sport has. And I'm like, I'm just going to take him with me. See how it goes. If it doesn't work out, he can stay on the bus. And I took him out in the pregame. And first he came on game day and everybody went crazy to meet him.

• 1:06:16Speaker 02

  And he's all perked up, tail, and he just didn't know what he was doing. He's just like, hey, everybody, what's going on? And then I took him out on the field pregame. I always take Ben out. I said, I might as well take him out. I'm talking loudest music you can think of is on the speakers. Balls are flying and bouncing. Players are all over the place. Players are coming over, petting in full uniform. And he's just kind of taking it in. He didn't freak out. He didn't do anything. He was just kind of like watching, wagging. And I was like, oh, my God, this dude, he's made for this. And so from that point on, I took him every, I took him every Thursday. Stays in a hotel with me, goes to dinner with me. Al Michaels, who's not a big dog guy. Ben, Ben won all over, which was great.

• 1:07:00Speaker 02

  I should have shared that picture with you, Terry, to put up there. I was like, I, I don't know about dogs. And I was like, I was like, okay. I was like, if you don't like dogs, I won't bring him around. He goes, yeah. And then the next morning, he goes, where's Ben? And I go, I left him up in a room. He told me to. And he goes, he goes, why don't you bring him down? I go, all right. So I went back upstairs, got Ben, brought him down. And Ben's super chill. And Al kind of came over, kind of looked at him. There's like 50 people in the room. And he's like looking at him and. Reaches down, touches him, and he's like, huh. And he sits down. We called a game. We're in Chicago. We called a game, the Bears. We get done, about midnight, get back to the hotel.

• 1:07:43Speaker 02

  We just happen to be across from each other. Never happened before. So, we always go back to our room, and then we go down to like a restaurant bar for a kind of a post-game. The studio show, Sherm, Wim, all these guys, we just all get together post-game. And I go, Al. I go, he goes, what is he, did he take it? I go, no dude. I go, he's trained. I go, he's not gonna go to the bathroom. He goes, what do you think he's doing all day? He's been in there five hours. I go, he's probably asleep. And he goes, no way. And I go, yeah. And I open the door, he goes, and Al went to his room. And I tiptoed, looked around the corner, and Ben was up on the couch in this hotel room, sound asleep.

• 1:08:25Speaker 02

  And I go, I go, I knock on his door, I go, come here, look, come here. And he comes over, he looks, and he goes, holy shit.

• 1:08:36Speaker 02

  And he got so excited, he gets his phone out, and he's walking over, and I'm filming, Al Michaels filming Ben. And he's like, taking video to show his wife, like, look at this dog, he just sleeps in the, in the hotel. And from that point on, I couldn't go anywhere without bringing Ben around Al Michaels. So, once that happened, when Ben, when Ben passed, then he warmed up to Peter too. So, it's amazing, I've never, being around Lee Corso and being kind to him, bringing my dogs around, tells you a lot about the human element in this, because I've called, whatever it is, 16 national championships,

• 1:09:14Speaker 02

  17 Rose Bowls, I do all these things, and people look at, I think I'll be, I'll be remembered for Lee Corso and my dogs. Like, I don't, I don't, I don't, there's anything I can call that will be bigger than those two. But I love doing it, I love being a part of it. I've got two years left, by the way, on my contract. I just signed a five-year deal with Amazon and ESPN, I've got three down, two to go. And after two years, I'll either... Step away or keep going. I don't know what I'm gonna do.

• 1:09:43Speaker 01

  You're not stepping away. There's no way. You're stepping away, dude. There's no way.

• 1:09:47Speaker 02

  I wouldn't mind just... I've never been to a tailgate. I wouldn't mind going to a tailgate. But look, you guys look like you're having... You look like you're having a hell of a time at those tailgates. I look out my bus in the window and I'm like, "Oh, my God. Look at these guys. They're having a great time."

• 1:10:02Speaker 01

  You see that as a player. Remember you pulling? You're like, "God, this is so much more fun."

• 1:10:05Speaker 02

  I mean, the smoke's going through the air and everyone's waving, having a good time, so... One day, I'm gonna participate in that.

• 1:10:12Speaker 03

  We would love that. I'd love to have you.

• 1:10:14Speaker 02

  Yeah. I tailgated for the St. X Centerville game. That was the only... One of the few times I got to tailgate. Yeah.

• 1:10:20Speaker 03

  Hey, that was the last question, but Mom has a question, so I can't say no to that.

• 1:10:25Speaker 02

  Oh, no. Yeah.

• 1:10:29Speaker 10

  Kirk, I've never asked you this.

• 1:10:30Speaker 02

  You're not gonna make me cry. You're not gonna make me cry.

• 1:10:35Speaker 02

  Don't make me cry.

• 1:10:37Speaker 10

  I'm not gonna make you cry. This is... This is a question I've always wanted to ask you.

• 1:10:42Speaker 02

  Oh, boy.

• 1:10:43Speaker 10

  And I never have. At Centerville High School, you played both football and baseball, and you were good in both.

• 1:10:53Speaker 10

  You played baseball. The whole team had played with so much joy. And I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you had a 500 batting average as a senior. I often wonder, you went into football, you followed it at Ohio State, you couldn't play both. So your whole career, you followed football and you've done very well in it. Do you ever miss baseball?

• 1:11:26Speaker 02

  Baseball, you probably know, baseball was my most natural sport. I just...

• 1:11:34Speaker 02

  I don't know, I was, back in our day, you can relate to this, like, we were in the yard. Like, we were in the creek or the yard. Like, that was all, that was all we knew, eh, when you grew up in my era. And so, we played wiffle ball, we played pitcher's hand, we played pickle, we played anything you could imagine, not to mention four-square and all the other games that we played. Hide and seek, I mean, it was just constant, in-the-yard playing. And, baseball, when we played baseball, I was always the youngest, and just, I just loved it. I, baseball's my, probably my first love. Baseball, again, was my most natural thing. I played for a great coach, Tim Inglekay, who, probably, we're talking a lot about

• 1:12:15Speaker 02

  Bob Gregg and, and Ron Allery, Tim Inglekay probably impacted me as much as anybody in my life as well. If you guys know Tim Inglekay, I know he retired a few years ago. He had a life. Oh, did he? Yeah, Tim, coach was a beast, and scary. Like, just a tough, a tough coach that, I, I made the varsity as a sophomore, which was fun, but scary, just being around that, that environment. And, I burst my appendix, almost died my 10th grade year, because they misdiagnosed it. But, I, I think I miss baseball, I mean, I always miss it when I watch it now, but, I don't miss football, playing football at all. I missed, I didn't see how

• 1:12:56Speaker 02

  far I could go with baseball. Like, if there's any regret I would ever have, as a, as an athlete, it was, I didn't go just in baseball and just, and give it a run. But, I don't, I'm doing okay now, but I, I don't, I don't, I don't dwell on it. But, um, it would've been fun to see what, what would've happened, uh, with that sport. Love it. I'm just gonna say, thank, Terry, thank you. Appreciate you having me. I, I know we stayed longer than, uh, you'd hoped, but, uh, Ryan, Ryan, thanks, brother. Hey, I love you, man. Love you. Yeah, it's awesome, too, man. Appreciate it.

• 1:13:31Speaker 03

  I really appreciate it so much that both of you made time to do this. Just give him a hand, thank you.

• 1:13:41Ryan Hawk?

  It is the end of the Podcast Club. Thank you for being a member of the end of the Podcast Club. If you are, send me a note, [email protected]. Let me know what you learned from this great conversation with the legendary Kirk Herbstreit. A few takeaways from my notes. I loved hearing him talk through what he was feeling the night Ohio State won the national championship and what it meant to him because he's so close with Coach Ryan Day and Kirk's son is on the team and dealing with the heart issues that he had and the fact that Coach Day kept him apart, a member of the team. It was obvious that this was a super meaningful

• 1:14:22Ryan Hawk?

  night and I just love how vulnerable Kirk has become. He's showing his true self and to me that just makes him real and it makes him relatable and somebody that I really enjoy talking with. And then how Kirk, being the most prepared broadcaster on TV stemmed from his time playing quarterback at Centerville High School for Coach Bob Gregg and Ron Ullery. It's where he learned his work ethic, to persevere, to get back up, to prepare, to be a great teammate, and it prepared him for his life. And I think he's taken all of those lessons he learned, again, from the legendary Bob Gregg and Ron Ullery, and uses them in his everyday life. And that's what makes him the best in the world at what he

• 1:15:03Ryan Hawk?

  does. And then I loved hearing him talk about his relationship with Lee Corso, the 89-year-old Lee Corso, and how their relationship has evolved from Lee originally mentoring a young Kirk Herbstreit and helping him to become a great husband and dad and be great on TV and all of those things that Kirk is. But now Kirk is the one helping Lee as Lee has dealt with a stroke and other health issues. And it's so obvious when you see the look in Kirk's eyes, how much care and love he has for Lee Corso. It's a very special relationship. Once again, I would say thank you so much for continuing to spread the message and telling a friend or two, hey, you should listen to this episode of the Learning Leader Show with Kirk Herbstreit. I think he'll help you become a more effective leader because you

• 1:15:47Ryan Hawk?

  continue to do that and you also go to Spotify and Apple Podcasts and you subscribe to the show, really important. You rate it, hopefully five stars, and you write a thoughtful review. And by doing all of that, you For giving me the opportunity to do what I love on a daily basis and for that I will forever be grateful. Thank you so, so much. Talk to you soon. Can't wait.