Staff Review With Todd Levin

Conan sits down with staff writer Todd Levin to discuss his trajectory as a comedy writer, Minty the Candy Cane, and making things needlessly complicated. Wanna get a chance to talk to Conan? Submit here: teamcoco.com/apply

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Conan O'Brien?

  Now Sona, clearly I'm a very important person to you.

• 0:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:05Conan O'Brien?

  Just accept the premise and we'll move ahead.

• 0:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 0:08Conan O'Brien?

  I'm a very important person to you. What would you get me from Macy's for the holidays?

• 0:13Speaker 01

  A vase.

• 0:15Conan O'Brien?

  No, I don't want a vase. I want something better.

• 0:17Speaker 01

  A jacket.

• 0:19Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, nice jacket. I love a nice jacket.

• 0:20Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, that jacket. Nice jacket.

• 0:21Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, so now you have to do it, because you said you would.

• 0:23Speaker 01

  Aw man, I didn't know you were doing that.

• 0:25Conan O'Brien?

  Well, I know the holidays are months away, but it's never too early, Sona, to find gifts that I will love, gifts I will wear, and surprises that make the season unforgettable for me.

• 0:37Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 0:37Conan O'Brien?

  Macy's Gift Guide makes holiday shopping easy with beauty favorites, stylish fashion, jewelry, cozy essentials, must-have toys, home upgrades, and picks for every person on your list. Coach handbags, Breville appliances, Lego UG, and more, all in one place so you can skip the scrolling and shop with confidence. Shop now in-store or online at macy's.com/giftguide.

• 1:00Speaker 02

  At Amica Insurance, we know trust isn't built in a day. It's earned over time by showing up in the moments that matter. And it's why customers stay with us three times longer. Visit amica.com to get a quote today.

• 1:18Speaker 01

  Conan O'Brien Needs a Fan. Want to talk to Conan? Visit teamcoco.com/callconan. Okay, let's get started.

• 1:27Conan O'Brien?

  Hey, welcome to a Thursday episode of Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend. Usually, these are fan episodes, but we've been mixing it up a little bit recently. I'll tell you why. Getting ready for the Oscars, and I have my A-plus, elite writing staff downstairs in the building, working hard on concepts, riddles, quizzes, recipes for the Oscars. And I am very fortunate, I'll just come out and say it, I work with the best writers in the world.

• 1:58Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:58Conan O'Brien?

  And one of them, I want to come up and hang with them. We did this with Ryan Kylie a couple of days ago, and now we're going to do it with Mr. Todd Levin, about as sharp a writer as you will find. You really are.

• 2:11Speaker 03

  That's really nice.

• 2:11Conan O'Brien?

  You're crazily talented and I'm so glad that you're helping me with the Oscars. And we've, I think you joined me, did you say it was 2009 was when you came on board?

• 2:23Speaker 03

  2009, just as you were wrapping up Late Night in New York.

• 2:27Conan O'Brien?

  I was wrapping up Late Night and I was headed to take over The Tonight Show for a 30-year run.

• 2:33Speaker 03

  We had jobs for life.

• 2:35Conan O'Brien?

  You said, I remember, I hired you and you said, you know, Tonight Show hosts last forever.

• 2:42Conan O'Brien?

  And you said, count me in, and you started spending money like crazy.

• 2:46Speaker 03

  Oh yeah, it was, most of it was spent before I even got to California.

• 2:49Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, yeah, he showed up and the first day he got, he said, I'm buying a Bentley. Yeah, and he got a license plate that said, Tonight Show for Life. And I said, I looked it up, it was way too many characters.

• 3:06Speaker 03

  It was.

• 3:07Conan O'Brien?

  For a license plate, it wasn't even legal.

• 3:08Speaker 03

  It was actually Tonight Show for Life 3, because two other people had gotten the same badly.

• 3:14Conan O'Brien?

  Two other writers for my Tonight Show. Yeah, so you were with me for the end of Late Night, Tonight Show, then the TBS thing, and now Oscars. And yeah, so you will be my writer for life, whether you want to be or not.

• 3:31Conan O'Brien?

  So, I'm just, let's get into this a little bit, because there are different types of writers. There are the kinds that chatter constantly. I'm sorry to say I was one of those.

• 3:42Speaker 01

  What? Oh my god.

• 3:44Conan O'Brien?

  Doing bits in the room and dancing around like a chimp on crack. And then, Todd, you're that, I call you, you're like a ninja, an assassin. You're quiet, you're taking things in, and then you'll say something that's really hilarious, and you'll write something that's really great, but there's not a lot of, you know, babbling and hey, look at me, which I really admire.

• 4:07Speaker 03

  It's not demonstrative, because I believe in my work.

• 4:10Conan O'Brien?

  Oh, wow.

• 4:14Conan O'Brien?

  I am very much like a bad magician, and I'm also a bad musician, but I'm a bad magician trying to distract you. I'm like, whoa, look at this, wee, wah! And then, because I'm afraid someone will really look and see, there's not a lot of protein here.

• 4:29Speaker 03

  No, I was, I think it's awesome just because I'm, I've never been uncomfortable with that part of like, performing stuff.

• 4:35Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 4:35Speaker 03

  Even when I was doing stand-up, I was the guy who just hugged the microphone. I just held it dear to me and I wasn't like a big act out guy.

• 4:42Conan O'Brien?

  You'd often try and leave with it.

• 4:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly.

• 4:44Conan O'Brien?

  You'd be like, "Todd, you've gotta keep that here."

• 4:45Speaker 03

  Come back with a mic.

• 4:46Conan O'Brien?

  Well, tell me about your journey a little bit because this happens so often. I work with these really talented people and I get to know them. We're in the trenches together and I think, "Hey, I don't really know your origin story." But when did you know, "Oh, comedy is for me"?

• 5:02Speaker 03

  I mean, I think I always knew it as a kid, but I didn't know, I think you probably hear this a lot and I think a lot of people who are in comedy say this, but I didn't know it was a career. You know, I didn't grow up in that kind of environment, you know? My parents were both state workers in Albany, New York. And I, so I loved comedy as a kid and my dad was really instrumental in that because my dad had, my parents had a terrible record collection. They had very, they had like a couple John Denver's, a couple Barbra Streisand's.

• 5:30Conan O'Brien?

  Right.

• 5:30Speaker 03

  But then my dad also had-

• 5:32Conan O'Brien?

  David's saying, "What's wrong with that"? "Sounds great to me."

• 5:37Speaker 03

  Not much. I love your parents.

• 5:41Conan O'Brien?

  "When can I come over, David? Settle down."

• 5:45Speaker 03

  But my dad had Bob Newhart records as well.

• 5:48Conan O'Brien?

  There you go.

• 5:49Speaker 03

  So he had, he was my, my introduction to comedy. So I would listen to his records all the time. He had Cosby records too. You could say that, but those were also like huge, a huge influence on me.

• 6:00Conan O'Brien?

  Huge, yeah.

• 6:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, and then my dad also had this rule, like we had this really strict bedtime. But if, we had HBO when I was growing up and if there was a funny movie on at like nine o'clock, he would let me stay up to watch, watch it with him. So I'd watch a lot of comedies with my dad.

• 6:17Conan O'Brien?

  Everything you're saying resonates completely with me because my parents had nothing to do with show business. I'm growing up just outside Boston. I, you know, show business is this thing that exists on Jupiter. It's done by aliens. But my father was very interested in comedy. He was a infectious disease scientist, doctor. And he, but he loved comedy. He loved New Heart. We had those records. He, they also had a terrible record. I mean, like, no records. And, but he loved comedy. And when a movie like Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World would come on.

• 6:58Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 6:59Conan O'Brien?

  Uh, once a year. We, we weren't allowed to watch TV at night. If it was a school night, if we had school the next day. But he would say, when this comedy came on, he would say, we could all watch it. And I mean, this was unheard of, but that was sacrosanct. If there was a really good classic comedy, we could watch that. So, and I think New Heart, I mean, what a great person to learn from because the jokes and the concept. It's about jokes and concepts.

• 7:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 7:28Conan O'Brien?

  He's like a matador. He didn't move that much. It's, you know, it's all the power of the joke and a stillness to it.

• 7:34Speaker 03

  Yes, for sure.

• 7:35Conan O'Brien?

  And a musical ear.

• 7:36Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah, I loved him. Yeah, my, my, so my dad turned me on to Monty Python, to SNL, all those things. So I was really into it as a kid and like, like, you know, had no idea that it could be a thing you could do for a living. And then when I moved to New York, which was just a place I knew that I wanted to be in New York eventually. I didn't know what I wanted to do there. I just knew I needed to be in New York eventually. And then when I got there, I just gravitated toward people who were doing improv and doing stand up. And I don't even know how or why I befriended these people. But I started to kind of get in with that world and people, my friends were just encouraging me to get out on stage and just do stuff.

• 8:14Conan O'Brien?

  That's great.

• 8:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, so in the beginning, I wasn't even. My, the beginning of my standup career was me reading bits. It was very much like a New Heart thing where I was just, I would prepare a written bit that depended on the page because I was so scared and I just was like, I need the words to be perfect. And so I would structure it like, well, I got these letters in the mail and I, you know, I thought I'd share them with you. Or these, I found these old diary entries. So something that was sort of, it had to be read. And then as I continued to do it, I just got more comfortable being in front of people and being spontaneous.

• 8:45Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 8:45Speaker 03

  And the pages started drifting away.

• 8:47Conan O'Brien?

  But you have to find a special place to do that because.

• 8:51Speaker 03

  Yes. You can't go to a club.

• 8:53Conan O'Brien?

  There are comedy clubs where it's very confrontational and you have to almost fight them to prove that you're funny.

• 9:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 9:01Conan O'Brien?

  Uh, which is, you know, can breed a certain kind of style. And then there are places you can go, they're more open to experimentation.

• 9:11Speaker 03

  A hundred percent.

• 9:11Conan O'Brien?

  Uh, and so where were you finding those places?

• 9:14Speaker 03

  So in New York, that was, there was a place called Rafifi, which was in the back of a, it was like, they, they showed movies there. And there was also like burlesque nights. It was a really weird place. There was a bar in the front and a little theater in the back. And there was a big kind of thriving alternative scene there. So I would do shows there, the UCB, places like that. Um, there's a place called Luna Lounge.

• 9:36Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 9:36Speaker 03

  That had a very famous like alternative show on Monday nights.

• 9:39Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 9:39Speaker 03

  Marin kind of ruled the roost there.

• 9:42Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 9:42Speaker 03

  And he was, he was at an older, generally kind of a generation of comics before me.

• 9:46Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 9:46Speaker 03

  Um, yeah. So there were all these little rooms you could do that. And then once you got comfortable, there still was an expectation that you do clubs. I never really wanted to do clubs, but if you're doing, if you're trying to get into a festival or get on TV, then you kind of have to be in clubs and you have, and it is, it's different. It's like, I have to make you like me.

• 10:05Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 10:06Speaker 03

  Whereas in the alternative rooms, you're kind of like, well, this will make you like I, this, the words I'm saying will hopefully make you like me. But like, you have to be this person that's approachable and it, it can be combative, but it's just a, it's more of like a, a struggle. Like I have to make these. Idiots like me.

• 10:25Speaker 03

  You just. Mudbrain.

• 10:26Conan O'Brien?

  You morons. How are you morons tonight?

• 10:30Speaker 01

  Idiots.

• 10:31Conan O'Brien?

  You working class scum. Hey, why did the crowd wasn't that good tonight? Yeah, they were. They were really good until you screamed at them.

• 10:39Speaker 03

  In your wool suit.

• 10:43Conan O'Brien?

  You dropped your horn-rimmed glasses at one point.

• 10:46Speaker 03

  I waved a newspaper at them.

• 10:49Conan O'Brien?

  Don't you idiots read?

• 10:52Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, everyone has to find their own way. And you do that. And then, did you do TV jobs before you came to me?

• 11:01Speaker 03

  This was my first TV job. So I had been doing pretty well as a stand-up. And I'd gotten like a TV gig, just performing, and I got an agent through that. But as soon as I got an agent, I said, I want to write. Like, that's what I want to do. Like, you know, I like stand-up, but I love writing. And this, Late Night, was my first TV job. And I almost didn't take it because I thought, well, shouldn't I have a job on a worse show first? Like, I had that. That's my own, like, you know, insecurity and growing up in this kind of like working, middle-class family. I was like, shouldn't I have started on something smaller? Because I was such a huge fan of the show when I got hired, that I almost didn't take it. And then the week that, that week, I got.

• 11:43Conan O'Brien?

  You got the job and you were like, hey, this show isn't that good. I think I'll be just fine.

• 11:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly. I don't know what all the fuss is all about.

• 11:52Conan O'Brien?

  I think Conan's on pills.

• 11:55Speaker 03

  But yeah, I, so I, that, I had gotten a job on another TV show, VH1 TV show, that same week. And the, and I was, I almost took that job. And then I got a call from Sweeney about this show.

• 12:09Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 12:09Speaker 03

  And, yeah.

• 12:09Conan O'Brien?

  That's good.

• 12:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was crazy.

• 12:11Conan O'Brien?

  I'd love it if you had turned us down and worked on Ridiculousness.

• 12:14Speaker 03

  I know.

• 12:15Speaker 01

  Oh, my god.

• 12:16Conan O'Brien?

  I would be rich. People in bikinis falling down.

• 12:19Speaker 03

  I would be rich beyond my wildest dreams.

• 12:20Conan O'Brien?

  You'd be so rich.

• 12:23Conan O'Brien?

  You'd refuse to come on this podcast now. I'm not talking to him.

• 12:26Speaker 03

  How much does this pay?

• 12:27Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 12:29Conan O'Brien?

  So, talk to me about some of the bits that you, like, your experience working on the show. What were some of the bits that you got on early days? Or just in general that you were really proud of?

• 12:40Speaker 03

  Well, the first, I would say the first thing that I got on that, well, there are a couple of things. Like, there are a couple of things early on that I got. I liked, but the first thing that I got on that I was really proud of that really kind of broke through was Minty.

• 12:53Conan O'Brien?

  Yes.

• 12:53Speaker 03

  Minty the Candy Cane.

• 12:54Conan O'Brien?

  Oh my god, I love Minty.

• 12:55Speaker 03

  And that was like, it just made people happy.

• 12:58Conan O'Brien?

  Oh, it was so.

• 12:58Speaker 03

  It made me happy.

• 12:59Conan O'Brien?

  Great. Now, refresh us. Take us through the, Minty is a candy cane, but not any candy cane.

• 13:05Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 13:05Conan O'Brien?

  And, and he's played by McCann.

• 13:07Speaker 03

  He was played by Brian McCann. I had, basically, I had so much insurance for that bit, though, because I had Brian McCann, who's an incredible performer.

• 13:14Conan O'Brien?

  Such a great performer.

• 13:15Speaker 03

  Playing this candy cane that had fallen, the idea is that he had fallen on the ground briefly.

• 13:21Conan O'Brien?

  Briefly.

• 13:21Speaker 03

  Briefly.

• 13:22Conan O'Brien?

  He briefly fell on the ground.

• 13:23Speaker 03

  So he had a few things stuck to him, like a cigarette butt and a penny and.

• 13:26Conan O'Brien?

  And then the song was, can you do the song? I'm trying to remember it. Uh, uh, (mimicking singing) Minty the Candy Cane who briefly fell on the ground. And it was done in that kind of old timey.

• 13:37Speaker 03

  And he fell on the ground.

• 13:38Conan O'Brien?

  Oh, Minty fell on the ground.

• 13:41Conan O'Brien?

  It was.

• 13:41Speaker 03

  Now he's covered in goo.

• 13:42Conan O'Brien?

  Now he's covered in goo. Oh my god. And.

• 13:46Speaker 03

  But like, so, so McCann played him, Stack sang, Brian Stack.

• 13:50Conan O'Brien?

  Brian Stack sang.

• 13:51Speaker 03

  Performer sang the song and Jimmy Vivino arranged it. I can't sing.

• 13:55Conan O'Brien?

  It's a great song. Yeah. And, um, of course, near and dear to my heart because my favorite era of singing is about 1914.

• 14:03Speaker 03

  Megaphone singing.

• 14:04Conan O'Brien?

  Megaphone singing. Yeah. Oh, and you know, uh, and it was great. He had just the perfect thing stuck to him. And immediately people loved him. I loved him. I would always dance along with Minty. I think Minty threw things at people.

• 14:19Speaker 03

  He threw, he had a little basket of candy canes that he passed out in the audience and then.

• 14:23Conan O'Brien?

  And then he would whip them at me.

• 14:24Speaker 03

  Violently whip them at you.

• 14:25Conan O'Brien?

  And quick shout out to Brian McCann, who I gotta get in here at some point because he played, he was such a, that early, early late night show. He was on and. Would just play these hilarious characters that really helped us put our stamp on the kind of humor we liked. And one of my favorites was the man with bulletproof legs.

• 14:45Speaker 03

  So good.

• 14:46Conan O'Brien?

  And McCann would come out wearing super short shorts and an incredibly self-satisfied expression. And he would sing a song about how you can't hurt me because I've got bulletproof legs. Yes, I've got bulletproof legs. You can't. And then blam, he'd get shot in the chest and collapse and die. And it was one of my favorite things because he would, he'd make his legs elongate.

• 15:12Speaker 03

  Yes, he would like, like almost do this kind of beautiful swan walk.

• 15:17Conan O'Brien?

  Yes, he'd do this long-legged swan walk bragging about how, swan walk bragging about how his legs were bulletproof and then he'd get shot in the chest. And it just delighted me. And that's one of maybe 10,000 things McCann did for us. What do you got there, Eduardo?

• 15:35Speaker 02

  You want me to play it?

• 15:36Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, if you want to see one of these Minty sketches come to life, go on the Team Coco channel. Look up Minty the Candy Cane. Come on, let's hear him. Happy holidays, everyone!

• 15:46Speaker 03

  The voice he chose, yeah.

• 16:02Conan O'Brien?

  That's it.

• 16:03Speaker 03

  Just a moment or two.

• 16:04Conan O'Brien?

  Now, you know, my favorite was Minty's covered in goo. And it's this goo. Oh, that made me so happy.

• 16:18Conan O'Brien?

  You know, winning an award, that's a big achievement, right? Yeah. Every now and then in life, maybe something nice like that comes your way. Winning them consistently is almost impossible. It just doesn't happen, you know? Well, guess what? Winning five times in six years? You know what that sounds like to me? Sustained excellence.

• 16:36Speaker 01

  Nice.

• 16:36Conan O'Brien?

  Hyundai has done just that, earning the title of America's best SUV brand for 2026 from US News and World Report. You are a very happy Hyundai driver.

• 16:44Speaker 01

  I drive a Hyundai Palisade and I love my car. I love it. I love driving it around.

• 16:49Conan O'Brien?

  I've been tooling around in an Ioniq 5N, which I love.

• 16:53Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 16:53Conan O'Brien?

  Beautiful car. Well, listen, whether you need an SUV for everyday life, your next big adventure, or extra room for family and friends, Hyundai has an option for you. The Tucson Hybrid is loaded with technology and built for everyday life. The Santa Fe Hybrid's fully capable and ready for adventure. The Palisade, that's yours, right?

• 17:08Speaker 01

  Hello.

• 17:09Conan O'Brien?

  They're gonna rename that the Sona. The Palisade Hybrid, yeah, delivers premium capability and class-leading interior space. With available, I have this memorized, H-Track all-wheel drive, up to an EPA-estimated 619 miles of range on vehicles like the Palisade Hybrid and Hyundai's industry-leading warranty. It's easy to see why Hyundai continues to deliver the quality innovation technology and value drivers expect from an award-winning brand. View US News Best Cars at cars.usnews.com and call 562-314-4603 for complete details.

• 17:45Conan O'Brien?

  We all have those pieces in our closet we can count on. Sona, I imagine for you it's that leather jacket I got you.

• 17:50Speaker 01

  Are you gonna do a bit?

• 17:51Conan O'Brien?

  No, no, it's a really nice leather jacket I got you once.

• 17:53Speaker 01

  I had that and then I replaced it and yes, I use it all the time.

• 17:56Conan O'Brien?

  We all have that versatile jacket, the perfect t-shirt, and those are the pieces that make getting dressed easy. And you know what I was thinking about this morning?

• 18:05Speaker 01

  What?

• 18:06Conan O'Brien?

  Quince. They do it best. They really do. I was really thinking about this.

• 18:09Speaker 01

  What a coincidence that we're doing an ad for them.

• 18:11Conan O'Brien?

  No, a co-coincidence.

• 18:13Speaker 01

  Oh, no.

• 18:16Conan O'Brien?

  That's why I get the big money.

• 18:17Speaker 01

  I gotta go.

• 18:18Conan O'Brien?

  Cut to very small amount of money. Quince makes elevated everyday essentials using premium materials and designs that are timeless, thoughtful, crafted, and made to be worn again and again. And when the temperature starts to drop, Quince makes it easy to build on those everyday staples with versatile layers. Layer up. That's the key. Now, Blay, you're using some Quince. That's right. Spending a lot of time back east in Michigan. It's getting a little colder, so I got a featherless quilted jacket, an Atlas Navy, and I just feel like a different guy. I feel classy. You look like a different guy because you're well dressed. That's right. Oh. No, I'm serious. He looks like a hobo half the time. That's true. He's right. That's true. No, they really do great stuff. Find your next fall favorites at Quince. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com.

• 19:01Conan O'Brien?

  Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK as well. All right. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend. Please do that. Say, by the way, I heard about this on Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend. Oh, I didn't really ask. I just want you to know. It's the best way to support the show.

• 19:27Conan O'Brien?

  Coca-Cola Zero Sugar is so good. It's almost impossible not to finish it before the meal arrives. It's just too good to wait. That happens to me sometimes. Me too. You can try rules like no sipping until the appetizer arrives, or you tell your friend, don't let me touch my glass. But every time you're staring at an empty glass. So if you've ever finished your Coke Zero before the first fry hits the table, you're among friends. It happens. Occupational hazard with Coke Zero. Yeah. Real Coca-Cola taste, zero sugar, too good to wait. Enjoy an ice cold Coca-Cola Zero Sugar today.

• 20:02Speaker 02

  At Amica Insurance, we know trust isn't built in a day. It's earned over time by showing up in the moments that matter. And it's why customers stay with us three times longer. Visit amica.com to get a quote today.

• 20:23Speaker 03

  Oh, another early thing. I don't want to talk about this that much, but was the Human Centipede menorah.

• 20:28Conan O'Brien?

  Yes.

• 20:29Speaker 03

  Which was, that was like, it might have been the same year.

• 20:31Conan O'Brien?

  And Human Centipede had just come out, which was one of the most horrifying, and still remains one of the most horrifying movies of all time. Sona made me watch it on the tour bus.

• 20:41Speaker 01

  I did.

• 20:42Speaker 03

  Oh, really?

• 20:42Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 20:43Speaker 03

  I've never seen it. I won't watch it.

• 20:45Speaker 01

  And it buffered a lot, so it took us four hours to watch it.

• 20:49Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 20:49Speaker 01

  It was really, really not worth it.

• 20:51Conan O'Brien?

  It was a labor of love. And so, uh, yeah. Human Centipede Menorah, so, um, did this get you tossed out of any religious affiliations?

• 21:03Speaker 03

  Well, the two things I remember about it were that Patton Oswalt had tweeted something about how horrifying it was. And I was like, if that got him, that's good.

• 21:12Conan O'Brien?

  If this horrified Patton Oswalt and got him's not sleeping.

• 21:16Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 21:17Conan O'Brien?

  Then we know we're in the right territory.

• 21:18Speaker 03

  And then the other thing was that we did it multiple years. And for some reason, they always, I guess because the costumes fit, they always tried to hire back the same nine guys.

• 21:28Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 21:29Speaker 03

  And except for like, one of them, they all came back. It was like a, like they had Stockholm syndrome.

• 21:34Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah. Yeah, the one that didn't come back, Timothy Chalamet.

• 21:39Conan O'Brien?

  He just, you know, and he won't acknowledge it anymore.

• 21:42Speaker 03

  No, no, he doesn't talk about it.

• 21:43Conan O'Brien?

  Doesn't talk about it.

• 21:44Speaker 03

  But it was crazy because those guys would, they all stayed in touch with each other. It was like a shared trauma. And they all, they all kept in touch. And I.

• 21:53Conan O'Brien?

  If you want to see the Human Centipede Menorah, go on the Team Coco site. And then don't look at the clip because it was horrifying.

• 22:01Speaker 03

  It's so horrifying.

• 22:02Conan O'Brien?

  And it's everything you think it is.

• 22:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:04Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 22:05Conan O'Brien?

  Wow, so.

• 22:06Speaker 03

  But I like to do, that was a thing that I think that I would go back to a lot, which was take something monstrous and make people have to celebrate it.

• 22:14Conan O'Brien?

  Yes, that's true.

• 22:15Speaker 03

  Or take something sweet and make it monstrous, which like Wiki Bear was like a sweet thing that Stack and I wrote.

• 22:21Conan O'Brien?

  I love Wiki Bear.

• 22:22Speaker 03

  You love it when you see it and his voice is cute, but he's a monster.

• 22:26Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, what was it, was it, what was Wiki Bear was when I would take the, it was like the, um, the bear that they were selling.

• 22:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 22:35Conan O'Brien?

  It was a real bear that they were selling that you could ask it questions and could it?

• 22:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was based on a real thing. There was a bear that could connect to the internet.

• 22:41Conan O'Brien?

  Could connect to the internet.

• 22:42Speaker 01

  It was like obsessed with murder. Wasn't it constantly, the Wiki Bear was always giving? Anecdotes, not anecdotes, but like stories.

• 22:50Speaker 03

  Facts. It would give you facts and you would ask it very innocent questions. It would answer them and then pivot off the question to something absolutely horrifying. So give me an example.

• 22:58Conan O'Brien?

  I'm trying to remember.

• 22:58Speaker 03

  It would be like, so you would ask it like, it was always, I wish I could give an example.

• 23:04Conan O'Brien?

  Cause it was a cute kid's toy. So I was saying, hey, Wiki Bear, how are you? You know, and then it would, I'm fine, Conan. And then it would pivot off that really quickly.

• 23:11Speaker 03

  Speaking of blah, blah, blah.

• 23:14Conan O'Brien?

  Ed Gein made, Ed Gein made lampshades out of human skin. And I'd be like, Wiki Bear.

• 23:21Speaker 03

  Speaking of bright ideas, yeah, it would be like something like that.

• 23:25Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 23:26Speaker 03

  He was a clever fella.

• 23:27Conan O'Brien?

  I think one of the reasons you fit in so nicely is that I think my whole life, so many bits were me trying to be the innocent talk show host who was doing something sweet.

• 23:38Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 23:38Conan O'Brien?

  It's almost like we didn't have rehearsal, if you follow that logic. I'm gonna try out this Wiki Bear. Hey Wiki Bear. And then I'd be trying to be like, okay, well, let's just move it along, Wiki Bear. Did you know that the second night of the Manson murders, they, you know, and I'm like, hey, hold on a second Wiki Bear. But if you look through it, that's a theme that runs through the entire show. Uh, for years and years and years, any version of it is me trying.

• 24:04Speaker 03

  Trying to put on a nice show for you.

• 24:05Conan O'Brien?

  I'm trying to put on a nice show and I don't understand what's going on here.

• 24:09Speaker 03

  But that was a bit that you helped a lot, actually, because the original draft was like, kinda, it was, I don't think it was unfunny, but it wasn't focused. And then when we were doing it in rehearsal, because the bear would move, like they could control its mouth, it could always move. And Stack was in the voiceover booth and you guys just started talking about the Manson family. It just became a funny thing at rehearsal. And then Stack and I kind of locked into that. We're like, that's what the bit is.

• 24:33Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, you have to find it sometimes.

• 24:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. It changed the whole thing and it was so much fun.

• 24:38Conan O'Brien?

  So what surprised you? You went from watching the show to then working on it. What are some of the things that, that struck you as, oh, this is different or? I mean, what were your impressions?

• 24:48Speaker 03

  Well, the thing that, I'll tell you a thing that terrified me at first, but then became my favorite thing about the show was that the writers have a lot of autonomy and that you're kind of expected to not just write your bits, but to produce them.

• 25:00Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 25:00Speaker 03

  And in a sense, direct them as well. And you're working with the editors and you're working with all the departments.

• 25:05Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 25:05Speaker 03

  And in the beginning, when you've, if you've never done that before, it's so scary.

• 25:09Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, it is.

• 25:10Speaker 03

  Cause you're like, there's a thousand ways to mess this up and you know, a couple of ways to get it right. And then-

• 25:14Conan O'Brien?

  Well, that is something I learned from Lauren Michaels. When I went to work on Saturday Night Live with Greg Daniels, um, it was, I mean, it stunned us. I mean, I was, I don't know, 23?

• 25:27Speaker 03

  Oh my god.

• 25:27Conan O'Brien?

  Maybe, or 24? And suddenly, yeah, I would've been 24, I think. But, um, you know, we pitched a sketch. They said, you know, I did well at read through. And the next thing you know, you're talking to set designers, wardrobe people. You're telling them, you know, Lauren would say to me, what kind of restaurant is this? And I'd be like, I don't know. I just get pizza at the corner, around the corner. I get a slice. Are we at Orso? Are we at Elaine's? Oh my god. You know, are we downtown at Le Bon Somme? And I'm like, I don't know!

• 25:58Speaker 03

  Only go to three restaurants.

• 25:59Conan O'Brien?

  I don't go to restaurants. I've never been to a restaurant. I have two pairs of jeans and a 1973 Plymouth Valiant. Don't ever tell me that again. Um, but, uh, yeah. And so Lauren threw us into the deep end of the pool. And at first it felt like insanity. And then I realized, no one's gonna care more than the people who thought of it.

• 26:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's a great idea.

• 26:22Conan O'Brien?

  And, um, so you should be the one that's anal and like, you know, exacting about what it has to be because it's your vision.

• 26:33Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 26:33Conan O'Brien?

  And so, uh, and then you, you just, I think it leads to so many things. I mean, I think you have a really good director's eye. So many of the writers do, you develop that really quickly because you know what you want.

• 26:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's very true.

• 26:48Conan O'Brien?

  Sometimes even when you didn't think you were that kind of person, you find out really quickly if you have to produce the sketches.

• 26:54Speaker 03

  I totally agree. And the other- downside of it is that you also waste so many resources. Like, there's so many times, because you're in control of it, there's no one to say, are you sure you need all that? And you're like, absolutely.

• 27:07Conan O'Brien?

  Why is minty made out of silver?

• 27:11Conan O'Brien?

  Because that's the way I thought of it.

• 27:13Speaker 03

  Exactly. Do it for me.

• 27:15Conan O'Brien?

  Do it. Eight hundred thousand. Yeah, no.

• 27:17Speaker 03

  There would be a lot of times, like, there was a thing that Dan Cronin and I worked on that was so, so needlessly ambitious. It was just a parody of a commercial, like a, what was it? It was like, uh, not El Pollo, uh, Del Taco. That's what it was. It was the idea that was a Del Taco delivery system. So that it was, it was so stupid on its face. It was a, a special device on your toilet that when you flushed it, it could recognize when your body had room for another burrito. I knew the toilet was gonna come in the play. Immediately provides you with that burrito, once you had cleared enough room out of your body for a new burrito.

• 28:01Conan O'Brien?

  Yes.

• 28:01Speaker 03

  And we, and it's, and it became this.

• 28:04Conan O'Brien?

  Trust me, this is something Del Taco's thinking about.

• 28:07Speaker 03

  I think it was off some story about how Nike or Reebok had developed these sneakers that you could press a button and it would get Domino's for you. It was like connected to Domino's. So this was like Del Taco's version of that.

• 28:18Conan O'Brien?

  Synergy, man.

• 28:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. And it was so, it's so stupid on its face and it became so ambitious where there's this, it gets so in sync with your body's needs that it, it opens up like a third eye and takes you to this like place of nirvana where it's like, everything's perfectly in sync. It was so expensive.

• 28:36Conan O'Brien?

  But that's what Jim Downey was really good at this. He loved the comedy of take something very simple and then make it needlessly complicated. But that in itself is funny.

• 28:47Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 28:47Conan O'Brien?

  So a long commercial about change bank where Jim Downey's explaining to you that if you give us five dollars, we'll give you, you know, this, this many quarters, this many singles and/or we'll also give you this many nickels, this many quarters, and it's over explaining it. And I think there's something to an idea that's stupid. That then probably uses animation, computer graphics to explain how it works. Green screens of like, once this area has been voided, then this area is created and this area of your brain. And you're like, this is such a stupid idea. I cannot believe that you would go to this much trouble. And that's where the funny stuff comes from, I think, a lot of times.

• 29:29Speaker 03

  I think the show kind of, for me at least, taught me some of that too, because so much of what I felt like I was trying to do as a writer was to break you. Because I, I knew, because you've seen so much, you just have seen so much and that there's always, there's that kind of line between, okay, that'll work for the show. And I want to see that on the show, you know? And I think we're always trying, and I, and I knew you're rooting against us.

• 29:53Conan O'Brien?

  And you know what? I'm rooting against you right now.

• 29:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, this is what I'm, I wanted to say something. You're having such a respectful conversation with Todd and it's very confusing to me.

• 30:05Speaker 03

  When he was being nice in the beginning, I thought it was an ambush.

• 30:07Speaker 01

  I know.

• 30:08Conan O'Brien?

  Oh, it is. This is an IRS sting operation.

• 30:11Speaker 01

  Has he ever made fun of you for like a piece not working out? Can we talk about that?

• 30:16Conan O'Brien?

  Trust me.

• 30:17Speaker 01

  Can we talk about you making fun of him?

• 30:19Conan O'Brien?

  Trust me.

• 30:19Speaker 03

  Delighting.

• 30:20Conan O'Brien?

  Can you, Eduardo, can you kill her mic?

• 30:24Conan O'Brien?

  No, no, that is, I mean, I would have this, there was this relationship with the writers where if something was really tanking, you could see me licking my lips, like, oh yes, this is gonna be delicious. And I remembered, I think we were doing, I forget, we were doing shows at Comic Con and one of the writers had come up with, it's R2-D2, but he's gone Hollywood and he's like, hey, make sure you get me a good table at the, you know, and he had like a cigar. And, you know, yeah, and where's my limo? Yeah, she, she, and it was just, wasn't working and felt like kind of an old take.

• 31:02Conan O'Brien?

  And I, people said they saw me licking my lips and rubbing my hands together. I was so like, oh, we, we've got to have more. R2-D2 gone Hollywood? And, um...

• 31:17Speaker 03

  Yes, you would sometimes interact with the thing more than needed.

• 31:20Conan O'Brien?

  Yes. And tell us more. R2-D2, who's gone Hollywood? And whoever wrote it was like, okay, fuck you, Conan. But, um, no one is more delighted by left-brain crazy ideas that tickle me. Like, those things, that's a religious experience. You've written much more than your share of those. And, um, you know, let's hope we can do it at the Oscars.

• 31:45Speaker 03

  Can't wait.

• 31:45Conan O'Brien?

  I like, it's gonna be so much fun. But yes, I will ridicule you in an hour when I come back down. I will mock you.

• 31:52Speaker 03

  Time flattens everything.

• 31:53Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah. There is no past, there's only the present.

• 31:57Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 31:58Conan O'Brien?

  Time is a loop. Um, but, uh, cannot thank you enough. Uh, honored to work with you and, uh, get back to work.

• 32:07Speaker 03

  Thank you so much for having me.

• 32:10Speaker 04

  Conan O'Brien Needs a Fan with Conan O'Brien, Sona Movsesian, and Matt Gourley. Produced by me, Matt Gourley. Executive produced by Adam Sacks, Jeff Ross, and Nick Liao. Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino. Take it away, Jimmy.

• 32:27Speaker 04

  Supervising producer, Aaron Blair. Associate talent producer, Jennifer Samples. Associate producers, Sean Dougherty and Lisa Berman. Engineering by Eduardo Perez. Get three free months of SiriusXM when you sign up at siriusxm.com/conan. Please rate, review, and subscribe to Conan O'Brien Needs a Fan wherever fine podcasts are done.

• 32:57Conan O'Brien?

  Technology can generate salary recommendations in seconds, but building an offer that lands skilled talent, that takes more than just an estimate you came up with.

• 33:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're right.

• 33:07Conan O'Brien?

  That's where Robert Half's new 2027 Salary Guide can help.

• 33:11Speaker 01

  That's good.

• 33:11Conan O'Brien?

  Did we use a salary guide with you, Sona?

• 33:13Speaker 01

  Uh, no, but maybe...

• 33:14Conan O'Brien?

  For several years, I just gave you groceries, remember?

• 33:16Speaker 01

  I know, yeah, I remember that. That was not good.

• 33:19Conan O'Brien?

  Uh, well, anyway, now you got Robert Half's new 2027 Salary Guide. As a staffing firm placing talent every day, Robert Half combines compensation data with the experience of local recruiters so you can hire with the confidence that comes from experience. The new Robert Half Salary Guide is here. Visit roberthalf.com/salaryguide.

• 33:39Speaker 04

  Hey, that's me, Teddy Swims. You hear that? That's life. So go grab it. Grab your old friends, grab new friends, grab a White Claw. Grab flavor for everyone in your group. Grab music, laughter, and moments you'll never forget. You'll never regret it. Oh, hey, man. Grab new friends, grab old friends, grab life. By the Claw, White Claw. Please drink responsibly. White Claw Celta Works, Chicago, Illinois.