Who Is Michael Cohen? | PBD #728

Patrick Bet-David sits down with Donald Trump’s former lawyer Michael Cohen to discuss his claim that New York prosecutors Letitia James and Alvin Bragg pressured and coerced his testimony against Trump, the fallout from MeidasTouch cutting ties with him after those claims, the political and legal reactions to his Substack statements, his perspective on his role in the Trump civil fraud and “hush money” cases, and the broader implications of his shifting stance toward Trump and prosecutors. ------ Ⓜ️ MINNECT WITH MICHAEL COHEN: https://bit.ly/4a1ygE8 🎙️ FOLLOW THE PODCAST ON SPOTIFY: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4g57zR2⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/4g57zR2 Ⓜ️ CONNECT ON MINNECT: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4kSVkso ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/4kSVkso Ⓜ️ PBD PODCAST CIRCLES: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4mAWQAP⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/4mAWQAP 👔 BET-DAVID CONSULTING: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4lzQph2 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/4lzQph2 🥃 BOARDROOM CIGAR LOUNGE: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4pzLEXj⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/4pzLEXj 💬 TEXT US: Text “PODCAST” to 310-340-1132 to get the latest updates in real-time! ABOUT US: Patrick Bet-David is the founder and CEO of Valuetainment Media. He is the author of the #1 Wall Street Journal Bestseller “Your Next Five Moves” (Simon & Schuster) and a father of 2 boys and 2 girls. He currently resides in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  The words the media should be using to describe Mr. Trump are generous, kind, honest, and genuine.

• 0:07Speaker 01

  He was the ultimate loyalist.

• 0:08Speaker 00

  It's not a question of flip. It's a question of answering questions.

• 0:12Patrick Bet-David?

  You flip, though.

• 0:13Speaker 00

  It's not a flip.

• 0:14Patrick Bet-David?

  Michael.

• 0:15Speaker 00

  You flip.

• 0:16Patrick Bet-David?

  You went on every single channel. You talk negatively about the president.

• 0:18Speaker 03

  The man who once said he'd take a bullet for Donald Trump.

• 0:21Speaker 00

  The only time I would not is if he's the one that was pulling the trigger. I pled guilty in federal court to felonies for the benefit of individual number one. And for the record, individual number one is President Donald J. Trump.

• 0:35Speaker 04

  Ex-Trump attorney Michael Cohen says New York prosecutors pressured him to target President Trump.

• 0:40Speaker 00

  I would never have testified. I didn't want to.

• 0:43Patrick Bet-David?

  And you've been canceled now by both sides.

• 0:45Speaker 00

  They started getting 20,000 people telling them if Michael Cohen remains on the network, we're unsubscribing. My audience will say, are you back in his camp? Are you bending the knee? I almost can't say anything.

• 0:59Patrick Bet-David?

  You chose that job, David. That comes with the territory. So there's probably two communities watching that are saying, why would Michael Cohen go on the PBD Podcast? And number two, why would we have Michael Cohen on the podcast today? After he just got fired by Midas Touch, they cut his show. And we started talking. We've been talking for about almost two years because I wanted to get him on to talk about some of the decisions that he made. And it was very uncomfortable in certain moments, very awkward in certain moments, but he was very open. He said some things that I did not think he was going to say. I asked him a question. I said, who do you trust and who trusts you? You will be very surprised by the answer he gave. And he got emotional when he gave the answer. I said, do you want a pardon from the president? You know, which side do you trust more?

• 1:44Patrick Bet-David?

  The left or the right? You've been attacked by both sides. Which one is worse? And he was very frank and very open about it. Right before we were going live, he was doing a talk for 100 universities, some of the biggest universities, Yale being one of them, to tell them how to handle the lawsuit, how to deal with the president. He opens up and talks about that. Of course, he told a lot of stories behind the scenes with the president. And you'll see a moment, even an initiative, that he's wanting to share on. Why he may want to go to the White House and sit down and talk to the president. This is Michael Cohen. President Trump's lawyer wants to go and talk to the president. You're gonna watch this. And I don't know how you're going to process this, but I think by the time it's over. You're gonna say this is definitely.

• 2:27Patrick Bet-David?

  The last thing I would have thought for Michael Cohen to do on this show on PBD Podcast. With that being said. Enjoy the interview. Who is Michael Cohen?

• 2:51Speaker 05

  My handshake is better than anything I ever signed right here.

• 2:55Patrick Bet-David?

  You are a one of one.

• 2:56Speaker 06

  My son's right there.

• 2:57Speaker 05

  I don't think I've ever said this before.

• 3:03Patrick Bet-David?

  All the time, so. But i- i- if there's one thing I will tell you while the audience is watching this. They're probably surprised that you're sitting here. Like if there was any anywhere you would be on a podcast right now, your audience is probably surprised you're here. And my audience gonna say.

• 3:17Speaker 00

  My audience would kill me.

• 3:18Patrick Bet-David?

  That's exactly what I'm saying, that you're sitting here, so. But I got a lot of questions, a lot of things I want to go through, and by the way, it's important that the audience knows. Nothing is off the table. You get to choose to answer whatever way you want, and I'm gonna ask my questions. But something happened right before we got live, you were doing an interview that I ask you if you're comfortable sharing with the audience.

• 3:37Patrick Bet-David?

  So the the the head of Yale asked you. To speak to a hundred presidents of different universities. Why?

• 3:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, so it's Jeffrey Sonnenfeld. He's the head of the Yale University Business School. I've known Jeff for a while, I speak at Yale several times a year at Jeffrey's bequest. He brought in a hundred university presidents. And the question that they were discussing, the topic. Was how to deal with Donald Trump as it relates to being the head of a university. As we all know. Trump is right now in litigation with Harvard. When I say Trump, I'm talking about the United States of America, with Trump being of course the president. There's litigation against Harvard based upon a multitude of issues from DEI to

• 4:28Speaker 00

  gender equality and the education that they're providing. But they had, like I said, 100 individuals and they were asking me, how do you think that we should deal with President Trump in handling this issue? Because they are right now in a very precarious situation. They do not want to lose the funding, the government funding, which Trump controls and is using as leverage.

• 4:57Patrick Bet-David?

  Sure.

• 4:59Speaker 00

  While simultaneously, they want to keep their ability to operate the school in the manner that they deem best. And that's a problem.

• 5:08Patrick Bet-David?

  What did, what feedback did you give them?

• 5:10Speaker 00

  I gave them, my recommendation is to settle and settle early. Because if you don't, Trump doesn't stop. He will keep going. He will keep, he will keep pushing the envelope farther and farther. So if he starts with, say, $100 million as a, as a payment

• 5:32Speaker 00

  in exchange for removing the restrictions on the grants, my suggestion, try to water down the poison as much as you can. Maybe get it down to 50 million or 75 million. But if you don't, he and his team will continue to push it. Next thing you know, it's not 100, it's 250. And after 250, it goes to 500. And he keeps the pressure on. That's how we operated at the Trump Organization. See, that's the beautiful thing about Donald Trump. Nothing changes. He's exactly the same. He operates in the same way that he operated at the Trump Organization. He's running the United States. Identical.

• 6:14Patrick Bet-David?

  It's, it's as if you're already negotiating on his behalf on the fir-, in the first 30 seconds of our conversation.

• 6:20Speaker 00

  Well, if you say so, what I'm doing is I'm providing them with facts.

• 6:24Patrick Bet-David?

  He's gonna see this. So if he sees this, knowing him, that he may use this or he may surprise, which one you think he'll do? Will he change his tune and say, I don't like the fact that Michael is saying I'm gonna do this? I'm gonna change it up and I'm gonna do it.

• 6:36Speaker 00

  No chance, no chance.

• 6:37Patrick Bet-David?

  What do you think he does?

• 6:38Speaker 00

  I say he does the exact same thing that he's doing now. He doesn't change. It's very rare. He knows he has all the leverage. He knows, as he says all the time, I control the cards. And as it relates to these universities, Donald Trump controls the cards. Now, my audience, my audience will say, Michael, what the hell is wrong with you? Why are you, why are you saying good things about the president? Why are you saying good things about Donald? Are you back in his camp? Are you bending the knee, right? Are you looking for something from him? The answer is no. A fact is a fact. Whether you like that fact or you don't, a fact is still a fact.

• 7:19Speaker 00

  Donald Trump will use whatever leverage and pressure that he can on the universities to get them to capitulate.

• 7:26Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so what did they say? What, did any of the presidents, can you say which presidents? You told me one of them, so I don't want to say publicly if you are comfortable saying it.

• 7:33Speaker 00

  You know, I'd rather not, only because I don't know what it's going to be put out. It's top, let me say, let me say this. It's part of the Big Ten, and it's one of the Big Ten schools, a very well, very respected school, and a very, very respected president. Asked me an incredible question. We're not there yet.

• 7:56Patrick Bet-David?

  To settle.

• 7:57Speaker 00

  Right. And I said to him, do it. Because there is no benefit to you to hold out. Ultimately, you will pay, very much like the law firms did.

• 8:09Patrick Bet-David?

  Why? Because of discovery? Because of what? Because what comes out?

• 8:12Speaker 00

  It's not about the discovery. It's the pressure. Again, they need the money within which to operate. They have all sorts of funding needs. Now, Harvard is taking a little bit of a different position. As we know, Harvard has the largest endowment.

• 8:27Patrick Bet-David?

  Massive, sixty, seventy, eighty billion.

• 8:29Speaker 00

  Something like that. And the interest that they earn off of it annually is also massive. Technically, they really don't need the money. Doesn't mean that they don't want it.

• 8:39Patrick Bet-David?

  Sure.

• 8:40Speaker 00

  They just don't need it. So they have the ability, but many of the hundred schools that Jeffrey Sonnenfeld had on that live viewing.

• 8:50Speaker 00

  They don't have the endowments that Harvard has, not even a percentage of it. And so they need that money.

• 8:58Patrick Bet-David?

  The smaller ones, the smaller of the 100.

• 9:00Speaker 00

  Correct.

• 9:00Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay.

• 9:01Speaker 00

  And that's where Trump, again, has the massive leverage. One of the things that they're interested in doing is maybe acting cumulatively as educational facilities across America within which to try to negotiate some sort of a global deal, like almost like a mass tort litigation, something like that, once again. Once again.

• 9:24Patrick Bet-David?

  Not a, you're not saying a flip class action against the White House?

• 9:27Speaker 00

  No, no.

• 9:27Patrick Bet-David?

  That would be a dumb move.

• 9:28Speaker 00

  No, it would be a stupid move. What I'm saying is, as a group, educational, that they would come up with some sort of a global settlement with the president in terms of how they're going to operate

• 9:42Patrick Bet-David?

  Right, right.

• 9:43Speaker 00

  On a, we'll call it Department of Education basis.

• 9:46Patrick Bet-David?

  Got it. It's a bad look for them right now. It's not been a good season for them.

• 9:49Speaker 00

  At the end of the day, who's the winner in that fight?

• 9:51Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, Trump is.

• 9:51Speaker 00

  Amen.

• 9:52Patrick Bet-David?

  It's not even a question about it.

• 9:53Speaker 00

  It's not. By the way, that amen by me saying will probably get me, again, canceled by many of the far left. You see, here's the problem. I've never been far left. I am probably a foot left of center. And the problem is, not only do I have, of course, the far right that despise me, I also get tremendous pushback from the far left because I will not sit here and I will not make up stories about a man who I was very close with, as close as two people could really be who are non-familial. I will not make up lies within which to appease their desires.

• 10:38Speaker 00

  And so when I state a fact, it's a fact off of my lived experience, my knowledge. Not hearsay, not innuendo, just my lived experience. And that gets me in trouble.

• 10:51Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, and it continues to, but I want to go through this. So to me, who has Michael Cohen's back today? Here's why I ask this question. Of course, in 06, when you start working with them.

• 11:00Speaker 00

  My wife and children.

• 11:00Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, but you know, in 06, you're working with them. From business side, Trump has your back. Then there's a following out, you flip FBI, Time, prison.

• 11:10Speaker 00

  Actually, I hate that word.

• 11:11Patrick Bet-David?

  Let me just finish this and you say whatever you want. So then you go to the left, whatever word you want to call it. Uh, you're the darling of the left. You know, Jimmy Kimmel has you on, MSNBC, CNN, everybody has you on. Then you go to Midas Touch. And by the way, Midas Touch, their entire, uh, they even talk about this. Their vision, why they started Midas Touch in March of 2020, was to prevent the president from getting reelected. That was their entire MO to get reelected. You have a show with them. I even think you have a show with one of the founders. If I'm not mistaken, his name is Ben. If I'm not mistaken, is that his name, Ben? Right. So you have a show with them and then you come out and you say the following comments. And you said you were compelled and coerced to only provide information and testimony that would satisfy the government's desire to build, build the case

• 11:57Patrick Bet-David?

  against and secure a judgment and convictions against Trump. You say this in your Substack. Not a crazy thing. This is your opinion against Letitia James and Alvin Bragg. Then we get news that Midas Touch drops. See, this is 10 or 12 years, days ago. Drops fired, cutting away, whatever word they want to use. They fired the podcast and they move on. If you were at any other place, you're not getting fired. So your position today, who has Michael Cohen's back? I want to hear your thoughts.

• 12:25Speaker 00

  My wife, my daughter, my son.

• 12:27Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay.

• 12:28Speaker 00

  And those people who are more centrist. I have no issue with Ben or his brothers Brett or Jordy. We're still friends. We still speak. We're just not doing business together.

• 12:41Speaker 00

  And I understand the reason why they did what they did. They have a very left-leaning constituency.

• 12:52Speaker 00

  And so they started getting.

• 12:57Speaker 00

  10,000, 20,000 people telling them if Michael Cohen remains on the network, we're unsubscribing.

• 13:06Patrick Bet-David?

  Just for that comment?

• 13:07Speaker 00

  Yes, sir. Just for that comment. Now, these people didn't just make that threat. They actually did it. And it was a significant amount of money. And they have, as you do, a large payroll. And so, I said, I understand. I understand. And I have to be me, and you have to be you. But we're still friends. And we still will remain friends even after this. You know, I have friends who are on the far, far left. And I have friends who are on the far, far right. And everyone is entitled to their opinion.

• 13:48Speaker 00

  I prefer, when you give your opinion, that it's predicated off of facts, not, you know, something you pull out of your ass. I do prefer that. But everybody has the right. It's the First Amendment.

• 14:01Patrick Bet-David?

  I get that. But, you know, CNN viewers probably are not a fan of Scott Jennings. He didn't get fired. He got a longer contract, right?

• 14:11Speaker 00

  Right.

• 14:11Patrick Bet-David?

  You know?

• 14:12Speaker 00

  I saw Scott Jennings about two weeks ago.

• 14:13Patrick Bet-David?

  He's very good at what he does. Scott Jennings, to me, I call him the CO-CNN, because he runs the show there. If, without Scott, a lot of people wouldn't be watching CNN.

• 14:22Speaker 00

  And on the other side, they would say that Jessica Tarlov is the COO of Fox 2, where she's with Greg Gutfeld and Jesse Waters.

• 14:29Patrick Bet-David?

  What I'm saying to you is, kudos to both institutions for not firing a Michael Cohen.

• 14:35Speaker 00

  Agreed.

• 14:35Patrick Bet-David?

  Because to me, a, what's the benefit of a Michael Cohen? You're a complicated character to the, to the average person, right? So, to the left or the right, they're like, um, I don't know, maybe. But what do you do? You at least bring eyeballs, right? You at least gonna get to say, what does this guy have to say?

• 14:53Speaker 00

  Well, I'm certain that your show's gonna do great right now.

• 14:55Patrick Bet-David?

  We'll see.

• 14:55Speaker 00

  People are gonna be, why is, why is Patrick having Michael Cohen? I mean, what's wrong with him? Is Patrick turning PBD Podcast into a radical left, you know, lunatic show?

• 15:07Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, or even bigger. Am I gonna go, you know, try to hire you as a fixer?

• 15:11Speaker 00

  Are you gonna be, by the way, that'd be a smart move. Are you? Are you, are you already, you know, turning the cheek? Are you already, you know, seeing some demise coming to this administration?

• 15:23Patrick Bet-David?

  No, I actually see the, the opposite. And here's what I see with you. Because to me, you know, when I, when I think about you, one thing you have that's very unique with you, and you probably wouldn't recommend this to the average person, but you've gone through it. So you, your guy that comes in, you saw what it's like to publicly, you know, you say things about Trump. You know, you're on Jimmy Kimmel, you know, he asked you a question, you know, who is the biggest lowlife in that community you're a part of? And you give all these names. You start off with him, his family, Weisenberg. You go through a list of names that you give, right?

• 15:56Speaker 00

  I'm not sure that was the word that I used, but okay.

• 15:58Patrick Bet-David?

  He used the word lowlife. He said, who is the biggest lowlife? And you said it starts with that. So they can play the clip to see it, but I watched the clip, I think, yesterday or something like that. Because I'm watching to see how you were used, okay? So you go there and you're thinking you're making the right move. And maybe you still believe that, that you, you know, with Trump, you said things publicly. And then it was very difficult for him for a season. And then the left comes in and you've been canceled now by both sides. So for you going through this position, do you sit there and say, maybe I shouldn't have done this? Maybe I should have stayed, you know, with Trump? Maybe I should have stayed that position? Has that thought at all crossed your mind?

• 16:36Speaker 00

  So it's interesting you bring that up. While I was in Otisville, there was a guy, I won't mention his name because I'm sure he listens to your podcast. He knows exactly who he is. Uh, hey Sasha. And um, he turned around, he said to me, why don't you just shut up? He goes, chances are, the second you get out, or even before.

• 16:55Patrick Bet-David?

  How long was this?

• 16:56Speaker 00

  Well, that was um, within the first year that I was there.

• 16:59Patrick Bet-David?

  Yep.

• 17:00Speaker 00

  He goes, Trump will pardon you and he'll probably bring you back in for all you know, you'll end up with a big contract with Fox. First of all, he goes, you're funny. You're also incredibly, you know, knowledgeable. So he goes, you'll probably end up with like some sort of a Fox contract. And I said, no, nothing that I've said.

• 17:21Speaker 00

  is untrue. I said, I will speak the fact, whether it's in favor of Trump or not. Now, I didn't take that advice. From a financial standpoint, probably should I have? Yes. Um, did I? No. Have I been canceled by both sides? Yes.

• 17:44Speaker 07

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• 18:24Patrick Bet-David?

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• 18:40Patrick Bet-David?

  Would you do anything differently? Specifically with the, because to me, uh, okay, well, let me ask a question.

• 18:47Speaker 00

  So let me give you, let me give you the better way to sort of frame this question.

• 18:55Speaker 00

  What ended up pushing me into the hands of prosecutors was never my desire. It was never my goal. I never wanted the FBI to raid my home, my hotel that I was staying at, uh, or my law office. I never wanted it. Why did it happen? Well, the Russia hoax, and I've always maintained that the Steele dossier was bullshit. Um, I never went to Prague. I've never been to Prague. Um, they claimed I had 10 million in cash in Prague to pay off Russian compromises and so on. None of it is true. All 13 allegations raised against me were a lie.

• 19:37Speaker 00

  I went and I saw the president in the Oval Office, the very first time I received. A request to appear before CIPSE, the Senate Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence. And I said, no. I spoke to an attorney by the name of Jay Sekulow, who I received through Sean Hannity. And he said, it's like an invitation to a wedding, or a bar mitzvah, or something like that. You don't have to go. I said, fine. I typed out a response, thank you, but no, thank you. They then hit me with a subpoena. And I said to the president, eye to eye, same distance I'm sitting from you.

• 20:21Speaker 00

  The only difference wasn't a Formica desk. It was the Lincoln desk, the Resolute desk. I said to him, sir, please shut this down. Nothing good is going to come out of this. These are a bunch of animals. I'm telling you. And the advice that he got from those that were around him were, it'll be bad. The story will be bad. Today, if it was happening today in 2025, 2026, Trump would have shut it down. That I know because he understands the power that the presidency has. But he was more concerned. He allowed them to convince him. And that's where it all started. When you're under oath,

• 21:05Speaker 00

  you don't want a thousand and one violation. You're not going to lie under oath, unless, of course, you're a member of Congress. Right? Then it's off. Then somehow it becomes permissible. I didn't, I wasn't going to lie under oath. They asked me questions. I gave them the answer. And that's how I became the darling of the left. Because what they did is they took specific topics. And by the way, with all due respect to every single one of your listeners, yourself and everybody that's in this gigantic studio, same thing that they did to him, the same thing they did to me, they can do to you. And that's my, that's my disdain for the system. The system, we are a country of laws. But we're not a country of justice.

• 21:47Speaker 00

  Depends upon who sits at the lever of power determines who ends up getting screwed and who ends up walking.

• 21:54Patrick Bet-David?

  They can do to you. Who's they?

• 21:57Speaker 00

  Government, the Department of Justice, the judge, the prosecutors. It's all about what they want to advance their career. You know, ask anybody who's been through the system. Here's the first line of horseshit that comes out from a prosecutor's mouth. I have a 98% conviction rate. You're not going to be part of that 2%. Oh, 98%, well, you must be a genius. How come you and every single prosecutor has a 98% conviction rate? The answer? Because they control all the levers. They control the whole game.

• 22:29Patrick Bet-David?

  Still?

• 22:30Speaker 00

  Still. And with me, what happened? I didn't want to testify. I was subpoenaed every single time within which to testify. Had I not had to testify the first time around? None of this would have gone on. I had no desire within which to. And it's not a question. You use the word flip. It's not a question of flip. It's a question of answering questions, responding to questions.

• 22:54Patrick Bet-David?

  You flipped, though.

• 22:54Speaker 00

  It's not a flip.

• 22:55Patrick Bet-David?

  Michael, you flipped.

• 22:57Speaker 00

  When you flip, you flip.

• 22:58Patrick Bet-David?

  You talk negatively about the president.

• 23:00Speaker 00

  You flip only when you flip only when you get a benefit from it. What benefit have I ever received? In other words, think about the mob. Think about the mob. When they flip on their boss.

• 23:10Patrick Bet-David?

  I will tell you, yeah.

• 23:11Speaker 00

  Okay, what did I get?

• 23:12Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, no. What you got, you didn't get. What you wanted, you didn't get.

• 23:16Speaker 00

  What did I want?

• 23:17Patrick Bet-David?

  What didn't you want? You didn't want a pardon from Biden? You didn't hope that he would pardon you like?

• 23:21Speaker 00

  By the way, with all due respect.

• 23:22Patrick Bet-David?

  He said, I want to de-politicize the concept of pardoning. And then he ends up pardoning his son and Fauci and his family and all the J6, you know, committee.

• 23:32Speaker 00

  Mind you, when I asked for that pardon, I was already finished and I was already off paper, six years. So flipping, you don't do it post facto, right? I'm not asking for a postmortem award. I wanted it. I wanted it early, early on, but that wasn't happening.

• 23:47Patrick Bet-David?

  So I've sat down with actual mobsters. I've probably done more mob interviews than anybody else in the podcast world. And you talk to any one of them? They'll come and talk to me. Uh, whether it's Sammy Dabo when he got out, whether it's Michael Francis, whether it's the late Frank Colada or Philly and I'll give you the list of every one of these guys.

• 24:04Speaker 00

  Should I be afraid?

• 24:04Patrick Bet-David?

  No, not at all. It's just got, it's, it's, I, I enjoy the movies and so, uh, uh, and I'm in Florida. A lot of these guys end up here, as you know, because they, they like to live here.

• 24:13Speaker 00

  They like the warm weather.

• 24:13Patrick Bet-David?

  They like the warm weather. Yes, they do. But flipping is.

• 24:17Speaker 00

  You know why they like the warm weather? The ground is easier.

• 24:21Patrick Bet-David?

  The ground is easier.

• 24:22Speaker 00

  Sure, to dig up.

• 24:23Patrick Bet-David?

  Makes sense.

• 24:23Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 24:24Patrick Bet-David?

  Makes sense. I like that joke. I think the right people got it faster than I got it. But no, I got it. So, but, uh, you know, going back to it, when, when we talk about flipping, I want to qualify it and isolate this main issue. You're not one of the guys. Uh, how many total hours did you spend with the president?

• 24:41Speaker 00

  Oh, my God.

• 24:42Patrick Bet-David?

  Total hours?

• 24:44Speaker 00

  Fifty thousand.

• 24:45Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, that's a lot of, how many people have spent fifty thousand hours with them?

• 24:48Speaker 00

  Zero.

• 24:48Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so you're a guy.

• 24:49Speaker 00

  Maybe Allen, maybe Allen Weisselberg.

• 24:51Patrick Bet-David?

  Let's say handful.

• 24:52Speaker 00

  But maybe, I don't, I don't think as many.

• 24:53Patrick Bet-David?

  Let's say handful. Let's say handful, maybe his son, family, whoever it is. Let's say a handful. Okay. So you go, you know, everything. In, in, in, in a business sense, I'm trusting you and you're telling the pub, I would take a bullet for this guy.

• 25:06Speaker 00

  And I would have.

• 25:07Patrick Bet-David?

  I think, at what age, you read Art of the Deal twice? You were fifteen or sixteen years old? I don't know what it was.

• 25:12Speaker 00

  No, so the Art of the Deal came out in nineteen eighty-seven. I was a sophomore in college.

• 25:16Patrick Bet-David?

  College, okay. And you, I think you said you read it a couple of times.

• 25:19Speaker 00

  Twice.

• 25:19Patrick Bet-David?

  So this is a guy you looked up to since you were a kid coming up?

• 25:22Speaker 00

  Correct.

• 25:22Patrick Bet-David?

  So you ended up working for this guy?

• 25:24Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 25:25Patrick Bet-David?

  You're in there.

• 25:25Speaker 00

  In there.

• 25:27Patrick Bet-David?

  I don't have it prepared, but if I wanted to tell my guys i- in the next six hours to create the clips of every time you defamed him, they can come up with hundreds. Yes?

• 25:38Speaker 00

  Well, I don't know about the word defamed, but I would say, said extremely negative things about him.

• 25:43Patrick Bet-David?

  Low life is pretty negative.

• 25:44Speaker 00

  Oh, you're right.

• 25:45Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, low life is pretty negative. So it's not like, I don't want to play.

• 25:47Speaker 00

  By the way, with all due respect, think about how many times she said that about me too.

• 25:51Patrick Bet-David?

  But there's a difference though. Here's the difference. And I will tell you what the difference is. If in the power structures of the world, okay, in any, in a, especially with him, New York, you guys go by a different rule than, you know, Toledo, or Mesa, Arizona, or Glendale, California. It's a different rule in New York. New York is tough in business. New York real estate is tough. So when you're playing it, you have to know in the power structure, I'm the boss, him, and you're my right-hand guy that's doing stuff for me. I expect 100% that you have my back.

• 26:24Speaker 00

  And I gave it that.

• 26:25Patrick Bet-David?

  I get that. But was, what was the moment where you were kind of like, were you hoping for a job? Were you hoping to get something that maybe you didn't get? And then was the pressure from the other side so much that maybe someone from that administration came in and said, Michael, if you do XYZ, we will protect you, we will have your back, we will get you a job, you'll be taken care of? Because that's typically things that happen. Okay, so what happened?

• 26:49Speaker 00

  Okay. Can we, we have to break that down into things because the timeline is all over, right? It's like from the year of Gimmel all the way to the end of the earth in terms of the timeline you just set up. I received exactly what I asked President-elect Trump for. There was all this bullshit about he wanted, Michael wanted to be Chief of Staff. That's not true. What I wanted, Mr. Trump gave to me. Personal attorney to the President of the United States of America. When I tell you I was honored with that title, I was honored he gave it to me?

• 27:31Speaker 00

  It was one of the few times in my life, other than when my children were born, I had tears in my eyes. Tears. I was like, thank you, sir. That's exactly what I want. I want to be Chief of Staff. How can I monetize that position as Chief of Staff? I don't want to live in DC. I lived in DC for four years. My son was a senior in high school. My daughter was a senior in college. My son was a ball player, playing actually for Hank's Yanks, the high school travel baseball team for the New York Yankees. He had tryouts with the, with the Chicago White Sox, with Yankees, the Mets, you know, as a young boy. I wanted to be there for every single game. And in fact, I can just tell a good story about Trump. And I've told the story many times. It's not as if I only said bad things about him.

• 28:14Speaker 00

  I also said some positive things about him. But you're not wrong when you say I told. Trump was a baseball player when he was at NYMA, New York Military Academy. And how do I know that? By coincidence, I end up speaking to his coach, who actually also had to be like the general over there at New York Military Academy.

• 28:35Speaker 00

  Says, "I'd love to come in and speak to Donald because the school is going to be for sale, and I'd like Donald to buy it, so keep NYMA going." He comes in, little guy, right? But rock solid and typical, what you would say, he's, as Trump would say, he was central casting. Trump goes, "Michael, keep him away. Michael, keep him away from me." I said, "Why, boss?" So he goes, "He once smacked me so hard in the head. He hit me upside the head so hard, he goes, 'Sometimes when I think about it, I still get a headache.'" And I was like, "Really?" So he goes, "I sure did," and so on. And he did. He goes, "But I will tell you, Donald was the best baseball player. He was incredible hand-eye coordination as a hitter and as a fielder."

• 29:20Speaker 00

  And I said, "No kidding, really?" So he goes, "Yeah." So he goes, "He was a great baseball player."

• 29:27Speaker 00

  Donald got a chance to know, of course, my children quite well. Especially, you know, my son. And he loved the fact that he was a baseball player, but not just a baseball, he was a really good baseball player. In fact, the time I was allegedly in Prague, we were in LA where my son had a tryout with the USC Trojans. Another time, he was here at Miami where he ended up going to school at the University of Miami. He wanted to play for the Miami Hurricanes. Didn't happen because of everything that happened. He ended up a little bit with the yips. If anybody in baseball knows what the yips is, it's where psychologically it just throws you off. It's almost like, you know, one day you're pitching a no-hitter, and the next day you can't hit the strike zone. It's a real condition.

• 30:13Speaker 00

  But Trump always said,

• 30:16Speaker 00

  "Even if I need you, I'm not going to bother you when you're at the game with your kid. I'm not going to take you away from that." He appreciates sports. In fact, he's actually quite knowledgeable in all sports, much, much, much more than I.

• 30:32Speaker 00

  And I always appreciated that from him, you know, and it was more than just a few games. I don't have to tell you, you know, because it's truncated into a short period, but he was always

• 30:42Patrick Bet-David?

  So you're his right-hand guy, right-hand lawyer, and when you're at the game, he's not bothering you?

• 30:46Speaker 00

  No, unless it was an emergency and then, you know, he was like, just when you get back, you know, just come straight over. And sometimes that would mean come over to the apartment, or I'll meet you down in the office, or just we would spend hours on the telephone, you know, dealing with an issue.

• 31:00Patrick Bet-David?

  What part of his relationship with you, the 50,000 hours, do you miss the most?

• 31:04Speaker 00

  All of it.

• 31:05Patrick Bet-David?

  You miss all of it?

• 31:06Speaker 00

  All of it. So I see your expression, same expression Todd Blanch had when I was on trial, sitting in that witness box. He said, "You hate Donald Trump, don't you?" I said, "No, sir." So he goes, "What do you mean?" I said, "In fact, I love the guy."

• 31:23Patrick Bet-David?

  Loved or love?

• 31:25Speaker 00

  Love. I still love.

• 31:27Patrick Bet-David?

  Present?

• 31:28Speaker 00

  Present. I'm still insanely angry with him for allowing others to interfere with the relationship. And I don't care. Look, we all know one thing about Trump, he will never apologize, even when he knows he made a mistake. He will not. It's just not in his nature. Some people can, some people can't. He cannot. But I know in his heart of hearts, he knows he made the mistake on allowing them to convince him to abandon me. You use the mob experience as sort of a way of, "He's the boss. Call me a capo, right? I'm a made

• 32:07Speaker 00

  guy in, we'll call it Trump land." When there's an issue, when does the mob boss throw his capo under the bus, listening to some foot soldier? It never happens. You're supposed to, smartly, you wrap your arms around the guy and you protect him. "Don't abandon me." They didn't just abandon me in a conversational manner. I was handling legal matters for him that ultimately resulted in the FBI raiding my home hotel and law office. And that's because they wanted to get him. I despise James Comey. I've always said I despise James Comey.

• 32:51Speaker 00

  I know that Comey ended up getting from John McCain, the Steele dossier, then it went, I think, Andrew Weisman, from Weisman, it went to Jeffrey Berman, who recused himself, then to another guy by the name of Robert Kazami. I mean, all for what? In order to get him. And that is just true, and I hope it's apparent to everybody. I don't care if you're far left or far right. That is and should be apparent to everyone.

• 33:16Patrick Bet-David?

  So, give me the exact timeline. What month was it when you say, you know, he made the wrong decision, he sided with them instead of me? What was the timeline? Exact.

• 33:27Speaker 00

  I was in the process of going through all of the documents on a review to ensure protection for him in terms of attorney-client privilege. We were doing a document review.

• 33:40Patrick Bet-David?

  He's in already?

• 33:41Speaker 00

  Oh, he's in already. He's president.

• 33:43Patrick Bet-David?

  So, what's the month? Give me a month-ish.

• 33:45Speaker 00

  It's...

• 33:46Patrick Bet-David?

  Seventeen?

• 33:47Speaker 00

  It's twenty-eight. It's twenty-seventeen. No, it's, uh, yes, it's twenty-eighteen.

• 33:52Patrick Bet-David?

  So, end of seventeen, early eighteen-ish?

• 33:55Speaker 00

  Something like that.

• 33:56Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, continue. So, you're going through that?

• 33:58Speaker 00

  We're going through that, and all of a sudden, my lawyer turns around and says, "Can you please reach out to Trump Org? We haven't gotten paid." We got to pay some, they held back on the next one, they didn't pay the third bill, now it's a fourth bill. "We can't continue to represent you." I'm saying, "Wait, wait. You're joking, right? So, not only did they push me under the bus, but now, something that I should be protected under, which is executives and officers' insurance, they're not even willing to pay that? Why?

• 34:38Speaker 00

  What the hell did I do to deserve to be ignored, abused, neglected, thrown away, discarded? What did I do so bad?" And then I turn around and I realized during a interview that they were doing with Trump...

• 35:00Speaker 00

  He turned around and they asked him, it was right after the raid, he goes, "It's disgusting that they raided one of my attorneys. Now all of a sudden, I lost my name? Remember, I know the man better than any human being should know another? That's the first sign that you're out."

• 35:18Patrick Bet-David?

  You knew that?

• 35:18Speaker 00

  Yes. It was that comment that really made me pause and say, "Wait, wait. Now, I don't have a name? What happened to Michael?" Every morning, 4:30, 5:00 in the morning, for over a decade, every morning at 5:00 a.m. and every night, the man doesn't sleep. By the way, neither do I, which is what made us even closer. Every single morning, 4:30 to 5:00, phone call. Every night, 11:30, give or take, a phone call. First in the morning, last before he goes to bed. And now, all of a sudden, Michael Cohen doesn't exist? Tell me why? What did I do? So deservant, so bad, that I deserved to be not just thrown under the bus,

• 36:03Speaker 00

  but how about run over, not once, not twice, but a half a dozen times? And I was like, "Okay, okay, I guess I am on my own."

• 36:15Patrick Bet-David?

  So what's your next move when that happens? Because I got a bunch of follow-up questions, but I want to know what you do exactly after that? You see this, you know what the signs are? You're like, "I don't think I'm on the inner circle anymore. I'm on the outer, if not the ousted, like I'm about to be ousted." What's your next move?

• 36:30Speaker 00

  I just continue. I had no moves. It wasn't as if I didn't call-

• 36:34Patrick Bet-David?

  Did you approach him? Did you talk to him about it? Did you see the calls declining in a major way?

• 36:40Speaker 00

  I was told by people like Jay Sekulow, "Oh, don't worry, I'm speaking to the boss. I'm speaking to the boss. You know, everything's gonna be fine."

• 36:52Speaker 00

  Ultimately, I realized that Sekulow is lying to me. They then tried to send in this scumbag, Bob Costello, a lawyer who was with Rudy Giuliani. They tried to infiltrate the defense where he wanted to come in. It's really a terrible, terrible... This, by the way, would be probably an Oscar-winning movie because it's so outlandish, it's so ridiculous. Nobody would possibly believe that this is true. They would think that this is some sort of a made-up plot by some really dystopian writer. Why in the world would you do it to me?

• 37:37Speaker 00

  Somebody who would legitimately have taken a bullet for you, except under one condition. If he's the one pulling the trigger, I couldn't do it. It was the ultimate betrayal. It was like being betrayed by a brother.

• 37:52Speaker 07

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• 38:43Patrick Bet-David?

  Indeed sponsor jobs.

• 38:49Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so but from there on, what I'm trying to find that is, did you approach him? Did you talk to him? How far, how sudden was the fall of communication with him? The late night, the early calls? Or was it still going on? That's still taking place?

• 39:02Speaker 00

  That stopped.

• 39:03Patrick Bet-David?

  So when is the last time you spoke to him?

• 39:05Speaker 00

  The day after the raid.

• 39:06Patrick Bet-David?

  The last time you spoke to him is the day after the raid?

• 39:08Speaker 00

  The day after the raid.

• 39:09Patrick Bet-David?

  You've never spoken to him since?

• 39:11Speaker 00

  The day after the raid.

• 39:12Patrick Bet-David?

  Got it, okay. So you called him or he called you?

• 39:16Speaker 00

  I called him to let him know I was raided by the FBI, which I found to be unusual. Even back then,

• 39:27Speaker 00

  Trump didn't fully appreciate the power of the presidency. But people still feared him because he was getting rid of people left and right. Remember how, how many people got shit canned from him at the beginning? You're gonna really tell me that the FBI was raiding the home, hotel and law office and the personal attorney to the President of the United States? And nobody had the decency to tell the President that this was gonna happen? Why did he allow that to happen?

• 40:00Patrick Bet-David?

  Can I speculate?

• 40:01Speaker 00

  You can.

• 40:01Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so if you're in a position like that, and he has a lot of people that are in his ear, right? If you're in a position like that and there's a lot of people in his ear, and I've gone through this before, I've gone through it closely, of course, on a much smaller scale, in a business where you're like, wait a minute, who is on my side right now? That guy used to be on my side. But why are you protecting that guy now? Used to say this, now you're getting a little too cocky because we're getting so much attention. You're walking around like you run this place and you look at me in a certain way. Don't look at me like that. You never looked at me like that before. Don't get too comfortable. And there's a certain level of expectation to maintain that energy of respect to know he's it, right?

• 40:45Patrick Bet-David?

  The power struggle, he's trying to learn everybody. He's trying to study everybody.

• 40:51Patrick Bet-David?

  As that is happening, don't you think there's a part of it where to say, okay, he's going through a season that he went into a world that he doesn't know this world yet. It's his first term. He's much better now. I mean, he knows what he's doing now with his third term, whatever you want to call it. Of course, those four years he was off, he learned a lot. It was actually, he has an advantage because at that fourth year of being off, everybody came and gave him so much information to prepare for this.

• 41:20Speaker 00

  But let's at least acknowledge it's his second term, not his third.

• 41:23Patrick Bet-David?

  For sure it is. It's his second term.

• 41:24Speaker 00

  Because otherwise that would make this term unconstitutional.

• 41:26Patrick Bet-David?

  No, no, no. This is a second term. But what I'm saying is that four year was a very good break of getting smarter. I think he has a competitive advantage over his peers. But don't you think while you're in that moment, like, there's a little bit of saying, and maybe he's going through a season. Let me see what he's going through, instead of, nope, I'm out.

• 41:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's not how it happened. You see, what you're doing is you're creating a break in a timeline. I didn't break the timeline. The people, the enablers, the sycophants that were around him are the ones who did it.

• 41:58Patrick Bet-David?

  Who are some of the names?

• 41:59Speaker 00

  Jay Sekulow. In my book Revenge, Jared Kushner, Ryan's prebuss, Steve Bannon. There was a whole group of them. Not, you gotta cut him off. You gotta cut him off. Jared, that saddens me too, because we had a friendship, you know. Ivanka, from what I understand, from investigations that I used to write my book Revenge. Ivanka was like, you can't do that to MC, her nickname for me, right? You can't do that to MC. You know, stop. Well, he took the advice of people who were never in his orbit before

• 42:40Speaker 00

  over the protection of me.

• 42:45Speaker 00

  And I don't think that you, or even any of your listeners would turn around and say, "Yeah, I would, I would have done that." I think everybody would have done it differently. In fact, I am 100% certain, not, not 99 and a half like Ivory Soap, 100% certain, today, if this happened, he would never have done what he did. Certainly not over a million dollars in legal fees, certainly not listening to the enablers that were around him over somebody who he, who he spoke to and, and who he trusted every single day for more than a decade. You know, I'm, I'm interesting in a way like insanely loyal.

• 43:28Speaker 00

  And I don't ask for the same for reciprocal loyalty. I do ask for some. And when I said it, and I'm going to repeat it, I said it before, and I think it's important. I would have taken a bullet for him. Someone pulled out a gun, I would have jumped in front of it. The only time I would not, if he's the one that was pulling the trigger. And what I realized is that in this case, when it related to me, he was the one pulling the trigger. He may not have went out and purchased the gun and the ammunition, that was given to him by his enablers, but he was the one pulling the trigger because as President of the United States, he had the power to do what I told him, what I asked him, I pleaded, I begged him, "Just shut this shit down.

• 44:13Speaker 00

  Nothing good is going to come out of this. They're going to come after both of us, and we're both going to get hurt from it." And you know what? Sadly, I was correct.

• 44:24Patrick Bet-David?

  Let me ask you, let's role play-

• 44:26Speaker 00

  But let me go one step further. Can I go one step back even further? I wouldn't change anything.

• 44:30Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, but let's, let's, let's play something else out, okay? Let's play it out, you don't do what you did. Where are you at today, in 26?

• 44:38Speaker 00

  Broke, on the street, no wife, children hating me.

• 44:45Speaker 00

  That's where I was. You see, people have me all wrong. I heard all this crap, you know, Trump made you. Shitheads. I retired at the age of 39, alright? I didn't need to work for Donald Trump. I wanted. When he offered me that job, which came out of the blue, I didn't put in an application. I was in the office. He asked me to help him with a matter, a matter that dealt with the casinos. And of course, I had done several of the legal matters for him as well, prior to that. Then he was like, "You happy at that sleepy old firm that you're at?" It was at one of the oldest law firms in America, Philip Snizer. I was a partner at the firm. He's like, "Yeah, I don't really work too hard. I'm doing just fine, having a great time, great life."

• 45:29Speaker 00

  He said, "Why don't you come work for me? I'll give you Ivanka's office. They just built on the 25th floor. You'd be right next to me. You'd be my personal attorney, my special counsel." And I was like, huh, a guy who I admired tremendously is offering me a job? I didn't expect it. Actually, I expected to get paid for the work that I did on Trump. I was waiting for a check. And when I asked him for the check, humorously, he turned around and goes, "You want to get fired on the first day?" I was like, "Okay." And I accepted the job. And I don't look back, nor do I look back with the NDAs and so on. I don't look back at any of that.

• 46:06Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, there's a difference between when you're saying shitheads, you know, you think I wasn't making money before.

• 46:13Patrick Bet-David?

  There's a difference between being a lawyer for an oldest, you know, oldest law firm, and you're making good money, you got a good life, to all of a sudden, you're with the guy in New York City.

• 46:22Speaker 00

  No, no, you understand my point. I retired.

• 46:25Patrick Bet-David?

  I know you did. So this is not a money thing, but there's a difference between... There's a lot of billionaires nobody knows.

• 46:29Speaker 00

  Right. I wasn't a billionaire. I was more than comfortable enough. I didn't need to work anymore.

• 46:34Patrick Bet-David?

  I know the story of owning 30 or 40 medallions.

• 46:35Speaker 00

  No, 285 yellow cabs in New York City.

• 46:38Patrick Bet-David?

  Caps or medallions?

• 46:39Speaker 00

  Medallions I owned, some, right? The 40.

• 46:43Patrick Bet-David?

  Right.

• 46:43Speaker 00

  And then I had some in Chicago as well.

• 46:44Patrick Bet-David?

  And some of these medallions, at the peak, was a million bucks.

• 46:46Speaker 00

  1.4.

• 46:47Patrick Bet-David?

  Right.

• 46:48Speaker 00

  I had about $60 million just in medallions in New York alone.

• 46:51Patrick Bet-David?

  And then you had 280 cabs?

• 46:53Speaker 00

  And we had 280... 85 yellow cabs in New York City.

• 46:55Patrick Bet-David?

  Through the wife and the family or this is you?

• 46:57Speaker 00

  No, that was me. I was a lawyer that was working. My, my father-in-law had a couple of medallions. I ended up buying them from him right after nine 11.

• 47:06Patrick Bet-David?

  And then you took it to a different level?

• 47:07Speaker 00

  No, I was already in the industry. I started in the taxi industry December of 1995. I bought out a client when I was practicing negligence tort and medical malpractice. I bought out a client that was leaving the country. I then merged his with another client and we built it together, me and my ex-partner, to 285 yellow cabs. Bought buildings together, properties together. In fact, bought properties in Trump World Tower. We bought a whole slew of apartments. I bought one, my parents bought one, my in-laws bought a few, my partner bought, some friends bought. I put together a whole block.

• 47:48Patrick Bet-David?

  With the intention of what? With the intention of trying to get close or just ruin your business?

• 47:53Speaker 00

  That was my, that was the year 2000. I was about to go close. I valued the Trump brand for what it was. And I was getting a very good deal price per square foot and it was an investment. That's it. And I rented the apartment. I didn't live there. I rented it.

• 48:09Patrick Bet-David?

  To others?

• 48:10Speaker 00

  Excuse me?

• 48:10Patrick Bet-David?

  To others. You rented to others?

• 48:12Speaker 00

  Generally, I rented him to ambassadors and to consulates. Cause it's right across the street from the United Nations.

• 48:18Patrick Bet-David?

  06, when you guys got close, how did it happen?

• 48:20Speaker 00

  So what happened is he had had a battle, a dispute with the board at that building. And Don Jr. had said, hey, there's a guy who I know, Michael. He has an apartment in that building, but his parents, his in-laws, his friends, there's a whole group of them. You should really speak to him. He's kind of sharp-elbowed, right? He may be the right guy for you to talk about this.

• 48:45Patrick Bet-David?

  Junior's telling this to pops?

• 48:46Speaker 00

  Correct.

• 48:47Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay.

• 48:47Speaker 00

  And I met Junior because I had just bought apartments in a different building that I... Had um combined together for my primary residence. And that's where Don Jr., he was doing the construction.

• 49:01Patrick Bet-David?

  Got it. Okay, so today, Michael, so you're saying I would have done it the same way all over again. If I wouldn't have, if I would have stayed the same, I would have been broke today, not married, family, all this stuff that you're talking about, that the situation wouldn't be good for you today. You believe that?

• 49:15Speaker 00

  I do.

• 49:15Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, uh, uh, fair. So today, who today do you trust? And who today trusts Michael Coleman?

• 49:24Speaker 00

  My wife and my children.

• 49:25Patrick Bet-David?

  Outside of family, outside of family?

• 49:30Speaker 00

  I don't know.

• 49:31Patrick Bet-David?

  What do you think about that?

• 49:33Speaker 00

  I hate that.

• 49:35Speaker 00

  You know, I do have a lot of still supporters, a lot, um, on my various different social media platforms, as I told you, um, and really what brought us together for this conversation is there's an entire left-wing ecosystem, maniacs that are trying to cancel me. And I probably on my YouTube channel or my Substack, I probably lost, I don't know, somewhere between seven to 10% of my subscribers.

• 50:03Patrick Bet-David?

  From making those comments?

• 50:05Speaker 00

  Yes, from that one comment of feeling coerced and pressured.

• 50:09Patrick Bet-David?

  These are lunatics that are saying that canceled you?

• 50:11Speaker 00

  Correct.

• 50:11Patrick Bet-David?

  I mean, Midas Touch canceled you as well.

• 50:13Speaker 00

  I don't know if I would say that. Yes, I will acknowledge, yes, they did.

• 50:17Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so, so for you, when I'm asking?

• 50:20Speaker 00

  Cancel me business-wise, not personally.

• 50:22Patrick Bet-David?

  That's even, you, you, that, that's saying we don't want you representing our brand and I don't want to talk to you anymore, right?

• 50:30Speaker 00

  No.

• 50:30Patrick Bet-David?

  On live, on a show, on a show, on a show, okay. So, but who trusts you today and who do you trust today outside of family? You said you have supporters. I'm not saying supporters. I'm saying trust. Who trusts Michael and who does Michael trust today?

• 50:46Speaker 00

  I don't think there's anyone.

• 50:49Patrick Bet-David?

  How do you feel about that?

• 50:50Speaker 00

  Terrible, sad. I have emotions. I'm not, I'm not a stone. I actually have, um, I'm, I'm much more sensitive than people think.

• 51:01Speaker 00

  And it is sad, right? Because at one point in time, I had the guy trust me emphatically. And you know, I'll tell you something, it's that kind of a statement that he trusted me emphatically, that these left-wing lunatics, these maniacs, these canceling animals are trying to use. "Michael, you must know every single thing about Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein." What's pissing them off about that? What's pissing them off about the fact that I turned around and said, "Let me be crystal, crystal clear."

• 51:36Speaker 00

  I came into Trump's orbit in 2006, full-time, 2007, March of 2007 was really my starting date.

• 51:45Speaker 00

  During that 10, the 10 years, from 2011 years, 2007 to 2018, I must have been in his office. I don't know, I may, I maybe shouldn't even have had an office, I just should have had that far-right chair, the one with the red velvet on it, right? That was my chair. And it's almost like I felt sometimes that I never left that chair. During those 11 years, I never once heard Donald Trump talking to Jeffrey Epstein on the phone. I never once saw Jeffrey Epstein in that office. I never spoke to Jeffrey Epstein personally. I never engaged in emails, text messages, any communication, which have, in fact, I only live like 12 blocks away from Jeffrey Epstein, right?

• 52:31Speaker 00

  He lives on, well, that doesn't matter, but I live about 12 blocks away from him.

• 52:35Patrick Bet-David?

  That Lex Wexner house, the 77 million, out of 52,000 square foot.

• 52:39Speaker 00

  Correct, that he got for a dollar.

• 52:41Patrick Bet-David?

  Gift, as a gift, yeah. For whatever reason, no one knows yet.

• 52:44Speaker 00

  I live 12 blocks away from him. I'm not even sure if I was ever in the same restaurant as Jeffrey Epstein. Never had any communication with him at all. And because I turn around and I say that, that during the 11-plus, 12-years, that I was literally living inside Trump's office, I never once had any dealings where Trump was in communication or talked about Jeffrey Epstein. However, there is one case that came across my desk.

• 53:18Speaker 00

  As Trump's special counsel.

• 53:24Speaker 00

  I received an envelope. And in it is a Jane Doe case against Donald Trump. Jane Doe makes the allegation that she was a child and that she was raped by Donald. Well, it's obviously concerning to me as I read through the complaint. It's Jane Doe buying through her mother and natural guardian, Mary Jane Doe. It's a little bit odd that you have the mother still in there because if in fact that there's any truth to it, why do you need a natural guardian? You're clearly over the age of 18. Nothing really made sense in that case to me, but I don't keep secrets from the president

• 54:09Speaker 00

  when something like this comes about. And so I walk over, I knock on the door, "Hey boss, can I come in?" I said, "I just got this crazy ass suit or this notice of lawsuit." They call that a naked summons. "What do you know about it?" So he goes, "Michael, it's complete and total bullshit." I said, "Okay." So he goes, "Just handle it." And we had obviously many other things going on at the time. He was running a campaign. I said, "Sure." So I reach out to folks who I know. We send an investigator to the alleged address of this Mary Jane Doe.

• 54:52Speaker 00

  And it's a vacant parking lot. Why are you looking at me confused? Because that's the same look that I had. How is that possible?

• 54:59Patrick Bet-David?

  Did you say vacant parking lot?

• 55:01Speaker 00

  Vacant parking lot, you know, like a piece of dirt, land. So I reach out to the lawyers and I just start engaging them in conversation. And I don't know what made me ask. It was just a gut feeling. Sometimes you get them and they turn out to be the right ones. "Have you ever met your client?" He says, "No." I said, "What are you talking about?" So I said, "How'd you get the case?" "It was through the mail." "So is it possible that maybe it's not real?" "You think it's possible?" "Because the address that's included in here is a vacant parking lot." So he goes, "Give me, give me, give me some time. I'm going to call you back." And they ultimately...

• 55:49Speaker 00

  Walked away from the case.

• 55:51Patrick Bet-David?

  Did we have find out who it was that sent out to him?

• 55:54Speaker 00

  No. It was somebody that played them and sent in this case. Okay. All of a sudden, this left-wing ecosphere, these maniacs, they're now equating, for whatever the reason it may be, that this Jane Doe is someone by the name of Katie Johnson. And Katie Johnson is a real person. But I've never worked on the case of Katie Johnson. I've never looked at the file. I don't know anything about this file. That's being handled by somebody else. It's being handled by Alan Garten, who's general counsel at the Trump Organization. I have no knowledge of it.

• 56:37Speaker 00

  In fact, my understanding is that Lisa Bloom, daughter of Gloria Allred, was the lawyer for Katie Johnson. Now, that case was abandoned, or it was dismissed. Okay, fine. What does that have to do with me? What does it have to do with the fact that there was a case that the attorneys walked away from because it was not a legitimate case? Why is all of a sudden Mary, this Jane Doe, Katie Johnson? They're not the same. Lisa Bloom, I believe, acknowledged that. They're not the same people. And it doesn't make any sense either that they would be the same person. Why would there be two cases? So you're saying that Michael Cohen threatened this Jane Doe, and so they abandoned it?

• 57:21Speaker 00

  And I need to try to figure out on a timeline whether that allegation is before the Katie Johnson case was filed or after. Was it, were they going on simultaneously? Patrick, none of this makes any sense at all. And again, how much easier would it be for me just to say, "Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I threatened this Jane Doe's lawyer and so on, and they managed to dismiss it." Right? Pump myself up, you know, like, you know, like, you know, a boss, right? Like a, like a capo? It's not true. It's not what happened. The lawyers, the lawyers walked away from it because it wasn't a legitimate case.

• 58:03Speaker 00

  Plain and simple. And because I refuse to take that opportunity within which to beat up on the president, now all of a sudden, once again, Michael's a bad guy. He's bending the knee for Trump. He's asking for pardons. He's asking for something. He wants back into the fold. Hey, Michael Cohen here. Look, you all know who I am. Donald Trump's former personal attorney and fixer. A lot of things have taken place over the years. A lot of questions need to be answered. Well, you may have a lot of questions. So do me a favor. Anytime you want to ask me a question, feel free to reach out to me on the net.

• 58:41Patrick Bet-David?

  Do you think you care too much of what people think?

• 58:45Speaker 00

  I think everybody cares.

• 58:46Patrick Bet-David?

  No, but there's difference. No, I think there's a limit. And to me, I learned a long time ago, like, one of the things I put in my, in my business plan is knowing who I care, cares about what I think, you know, and what I'm saying, and who I could care less about. And in life, if you're not too careful, if you care too much about the noise creators, what they think about you, you're gonna be a hostage by them. You'll make some dumb decisions.

• 59:14Speaker 00

  Well, I'm not so sure about that. I think what it does is it's true.

• 59:17Patrick Bet-David?

  Tell me more.

• 59:18Speaker 00

  I think it sharpens me. It doesn't make me make dumber decisions. It makes me more cautious.

• 59:22Patrick Bet-David?

  Sensitive, sensitive decisions.

• 59:23Speaker 00

  It's okay to be sensitive, but it doesn't mean that they're reckless decisions. I am receiving DMs on a daily basis. It's almost like, you know, I was on Charlemagne the God once on Comedy Central, and I was doing the mean tweets, right? I can't begin to tell you the number of, some of the vilest comments being made, all about something that is absolutely 100% untrue. Just because you want to believe something doesn't make it factually accurate.

• 59:55Patrick Bet-David?

  Sure.

• 59:56Speaker 00

  All right? Imagine if you're... Subscribers, if your followers, people who have been loyal to Patrick,

• 1:00:02Patrick Bet-David?

  Right.

• 1:00:02Speaker 00

  Right? They think that you walk on water. Now, all of a sudden, writing you some of the vilest shit that you could possibly imagine, because there are people spreading lies about you. And then, all of a sudden, that lie gets metastasized into the next person, who's using that lie to build subscribers and profiting from it off of your back. But, by the way, it doesn't stop there. It's like that Brex hair commercial, but wait, there's more. And then so on, and so on, and so on. And next thing you know, there's like, there's like 10, 12, 14, 16 people, all of whom are attacking you 24/7.

• 1:00:41Patrick Bet-David?

  Right.

• 1:00:41Speaker 00

  We're talking about two individuals that died in Minneapolis. We're talking about Trump's capturing of Maduro. We're talking about Greenland. We're talking about a multitude of issues far bigger, far greater, far more important than Michael Cohen. And yet, not with these folks, because Michael Cohen makes them money.

• 1:01:07Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, I mean, that's the business. You ever read Rules for Radicals? You know, the 13 rules?

• 1:01:10Speaker 00

  Yes, I have.

• 1:01:10Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so I mean, that's, that's, that's a business model. That's how a lot of media companies are built off of, right? And they know how to destroy your life if they want to. But I want to go back to that question, when I said, who do you trust and who trusts you? Right? And I said, outside of family, and you said, you don't know, you want to support us, and you kind of went through how emotional and tough it is to be in a place like them. And I said, how do you feel about it? Because I think as a man, you know, there are a few people who, as a man, for your identity, not everybody will understand this, that you want them to look at you in a certain way. It's how your wife looks at you. It's how your kids look at you. Boys are a different look than daughters. It's how your enemies look at you.

• 1:01:55Patrick Bet-David?

  It's a look you want from your enemies. It's how your peers look at you. It's how your boss, investors, look at you. Those each individually are very important.

• 1:02:06Speaker 00

  So then let me then go back to your question.

• 1:02:10Patrick Bet-David?

  Please.

• 1:02:11Speaker 00

  I still have my oldest and closest friends. They have never shied away from me. Not when I was with Trump, not when I was against Trump, not when I was with Midas, not when I'm no longer with Midas. My friends are my friends. They know the true essence. They know.

• 1:02:31Patrick Bet-David?

  That's important.

• 1:02:32Speaker 00

  I mean, I have friends since, you know, the age of 10. I mean, you know, you're talking about almost 50 years, right? Whereas close today as we were when we were stupid kids riding our bicycles. I've gone through, like everybody in life, I've had friends who have done incredibly well. And I have friends who unfortunately passed away from various different things, from whether it's cancer to drug overdose.

• 1:03:01Speaker 00

  You know,

• 1:03:04Speaker 00

  I miss them as well, right? Because they would be here for me right now. But I still have so many of my college friends, my, my law school friends, even friends from when I was in Otisville, I still speak to. And they don't walk away. So I do have that support.

• 1:03:22Patrick Bet-David?

  Respect to those guys, by the way.

• 1:03:23Speaker 00

  Big time.

• 1:03:24Patrick Bet-David?

  Major respect for those.

• 1:03:25Speaker 00

  Big time. I tell that to them all the time.

• 1:03:26Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, I tell that to them all the time.

• 1:03:30Speaker 00

  But I'm there for them as well. You know, they have moments in their lives too where

• 1:03:37Speaker 00

  things are great. And then, like everything.

• 1:03:41Patrick Bet-David?

  There's a fall.

• 1:03:42Speaker 00

  Right. The ED medication is wearing off.

• 1:04:33Patrick Bet-David?

  Podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now? Then this is a job for Indeed sponsor jobs.

• 1:04:43Patrick Bet-David?

  That is so funny. Who do you think is more loyal? Of all the people you've done business with? Who do you think is more loyal to his people? Donald Trump or anybody else you ever met?

• 1:04:54Speaker 00

  Well, okay, that's a loaded question for me because he's the only person I ever worked for in my life. Other than the very first lawyer who I worked in the law firm, as I told you, I did tort litigation and medical malpractice. Other than him, I've worked for myself. I had people working for me.

• 1:05:15Patrick Bet-David?

  You've been around a lot of people. You've been around a lot of people. You're a guy. You're also a tough guy. You're not you're in New York, so you're you're you don't become taxi industry medallions. That's a mob.

• 1:05:28Speaker 00

  No, it's not.

• 1:05:29Patrick Bet-David?

  I don't mean mob like gangsters mob. It's not what I mean. It's a tough business. It's not it's not like you can't be in that and be a lightweight making it. It's especially in New York. Those things are very, very valuable. I think the second biggest city I would put for that would probably be Vegas and it's not even

• 1:05:44Speaker 00

  No, it's not. It's Chicago.

• 1:05:45Patrick Bet-David?

  It's okay, Chicago, right.

• 1:05:47Speaker 00

  And then Boston, Philadelphia.

• 1:05:48Patrick Bet-David?

  So meaning if you're in that space, you better be tough or else you're not going to make it. So you met a lot of guys. You met a lot of people and you're looking at them and say, okay, all right, all right, all right. Now, 2026, looking at Trump, his approval rating amongst them amongst Republicans, super high, right? Super high, 94, 92, whatever the number.

• 1:06:06Speaker 00

  Well, it's it's it's dropped down a little bit. I think it's 92% now. It used to be 96.

• 1:06:10Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, it's insane. But even to say, if you're in the 70s, you're good. You're in the 80s, you're good. He's 92, 96. And then you're seeing.

• 1:06:17Speaker 00

  By the way, you're going to get me canceled again for making a comment. Yeah, that amongst Republicans. And the funny thing is then I'll go and I'll show them a statistic. And I'll say, but that's not me. That's the Ipsos poll that's showing it. F you, Michael, right? You're back. You're back trying to appease Donald Trump. It's incredible. I almost can't say anything that is flattering to him.

• 1:06:38Patrick Bet-David?

  It's not gonna stop though.

• 1:06:39Speaker 00

  No, it won't stop me.

• 1:06:40Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, it's not gonna stop. But, but it's about what are you solving for? So let me go back to it. 2026, J.D. Vance said stuff, "I'm a never Trumper." 10 years ago, whatever it was, when he's doing the interview.

• 1:06:50Speaker 00

  No, he called him America's Hitler.

• 1:06:51Patrick Bet-David?

  He did, but he said, "I'm a never Trumper." Like, "I'm never," you know, you know when saying never Trump is like, "I'm never doing anything with him." He's the VP, right? Rubio, going back and forth, right? Ted Cruz, inside, working with him, right?

• 1:07:03Speaker 00

  Called him a sniveling coward.

• 1:07:05Patrick Bet-David?

  A lot of things, but, but the point is, he's also a guy that, hey, you come and you give respect, you're back in a circle, let's do business together, let's move on. And there is that side of him, and some people don't have that at all. There are people, you cross them once, you ain't never getting it. That's not him.

• 1:07:22Speaker 00

  No.

• 1:07:22Patrick Bet-David?

  So he does have a side that's, I don't know if I want to say forgiving, I don't know if I want to say, you know, his closest, closest guy right now is probably Marco Rubio. I mean, do you?

• 1:07:33Speaker 00

  No, no, no. I wouldn't say it's Marco.

• 1:07:35Patrick Bet-David?

  One of the closest guy, it's one of the closest guy. You know, you, you know.

• 1:07:38Speaker 00

  I still think his, one of his closest is probably Steve Whitkoff. There's a history that goes back.

• 1:07:43Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay.

• 1:07:43Speaker 00

  I have a history with Steve Whitkoff, um, outside of Trump, you know?

• 1:07:48Patrick Bet-David?

  Real estate, another guy.

• 1:07:49Speaker 00

  And, and our, our children are all friends, you know, and so, I mean, yeah.

• 1:07:53Patrick Bet-David?

  Are you still good with Steve, or do you?

• 1:07:55Speaker 00

  If I saw him, sure. Howard Lutnick, I know Howard longer than I know Trump. My daughter and his son went to nursery school together. It's 25 years I know Howard. All right? 25 years. I saw him, uh, after Trump became president. Came over, gave me a hug, the whole bit, gave him a kiss hello, "How are you?" You know, the whole bit. I have no problem with him or, or Allison, his wife, or any of his kids.

• 1:08:18Patrick Bet-David?

  Why are they so loyal to him?

• 1:08:21Speaker 00

  Well, there's many different reasons. One, they believe in what Trump's agenda is. And two, it's probably very financially lucrative, you know, for all of them to be in the inner circle.

• 1:08:32Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so, fair to say that. Now, but going back to it, with Trump. 2026, how important would you say, like, if you were to say, one of the most loyal guys I've met to his people is Trump, where would you rank him?

• 1:08:45Speaker 00

  One of the most loyal?

• 1:08:47Patrick Bet-David?

  To his people that are loyal to him.

• 1:08:52Speaker 00

  Let's say out of 10 people.

• 1:08:54Patrick Bet-David?

  You met a lot of guys. Where would you rank him?

• 1:08:56Speaker 00

  Towards, probably towards the top.

• 1:08:58Patrick Bet-David?

  Towards the top?

• 1:08:59Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 1:09:00Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay.

• 1:09:00Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 1:09:01Patrick Bet-David?

  Would you have said that in 2020, 2021?

• 1:09:04Speaker 00

  By the way, if you look at my testimony, that when I was on the stand, and again, I did not volunteer to be on that stand. I was subpoenaed. By the way, would I have done the 60, 90 days like Peter Navarro or like Allen Weisselberg? Had I had somebody in my camp, hell, yeah. Certainly, it's a lot better than the six years that I got from that idiot judge, right? Off of what? Off of doing an NDA? Right? I mean, that's really what it was about. About an NDA? About the Russia hoax?

• 1:09:40Speaker 00

  Had I had even just a shred of loyalty thrown back to me? Some care, some knowledge that a, um, let's protect Michael. Let's put our arms around him. What a mob boss would do. Don't take the guy and then just say, oh, yeah, the point over there. Hey? No, no, no. Look at him. Don't look at me. Stop looking at me. Look at him over there. No, that's not right. That's not, I would never have testified. I didn't want to. In fact, when I said I felt pressured and coerced, I felt coerced. I was under subpoena. I felt pressured. I didn't want to do it. I just didn't want to. It's my personal feelings. And I'm entitled to them.

• 1:10:17Patrick Bet-David?

  Absolutely, you are. So if these guys, these guys who were in Trump's ears, let's just say that they, you know, turned you against him.

• 1:10:28Speaker 00

  No, no, the other way around.

• 1:10:29Patrick Bet-David?

  Turned him against you, whatever it may be. And let's just say you know that for a fact.

• 1:10:33Speaker 00

  I do.

• 1:10:33Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, fair. If you know that for a fact, don't you think time's gonna be on your side? Don't you think within time, he's gonna realize what happened?

• 1:10:43Speaker 00

  My hope?

• 1:10:44Patrick Bet-David?

  No, no, but what I'm saying is, so what I'm saying is, even in that moment to say... Did this guy, I have 100% of his back. Don't you think, and I want to finish this and we can move on to the next topic.

• 1:10:56Speaker 00

  No, because I have a response for this. That's gonna blow you away.

• 1:10:58Patrick Bet-David?

  So what I'm saying is, in that moment, you're like, what is he doing? Patient, three months, six months, 12 months, 18 months, 24 months. Then he sees the guys that did this, then he sees how they did, and then he sits there and says, "But that Michael guy never flipped. But that Michael guy never threw me under the bus. But that Michael guy, you know what? Call Michael." Don't you think time would have strengthened the relationship?

• 1:11:22Speaker 00

  Who has that time? All right, when this is happening to you in real time, you're thinking post-fact. And I agree with you, post-fact probably would have been better.

• 1:11:32Patrick Bet-David?

  That's what makes it tough, though. That's what makes it hard.

• 1:11:34Speaker 00

  No, not what makes it tough, it makes it impossible. Because you're living in a world.

• 1:11:38Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:39Speaker 00

  I, I, I can assure you, this has never happened to you. In fact, it's probably never happened to any of your, any of your listeners either. You can't imagine what it feels like. It's not an anvil dropping out like in The Road Runner from the sky and squashing you into a...

• 1:11:56Patrick Bet-David?

  You chose that job, though. That comes with the territory. It's not an easy job.

• 1:12:00Speaker 00

  What, what job are you referring to?

• 1:12:01Patrick Bet-David?

  Don't choose to go into the administration. Don't choose...

• 1:12:04Speaker 00

  I didn't go into the administration.

• 1:12:05Patrick Bet-David?

  Don't choose to stay supporting when he's at that level. I mean, this is the most targeted man in politics in our lifetime.

• 1:12:12Speaker 00

  Though, it wasn't anything that we had done while he was in office. This was everything pre. None of it was political. Um, it's, this was all pre.

• 1:12:23Patrick Bet-David?

  I, I understand that.

• 1:12:24Speaker 00

  My point is, so, what was I, what was I looking for? What was I hoping for? I was hoping that the man who I revered,

• 1:12:32Patrick Bet-David?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:12:33Speaker 00

  man who I had worked for, I had blasts with, we used to travel together, laugh. I don't see Trump laughing anymore. I don't see him smiling. I don't see him having a good time.

• 1:12:44Patrick Bet-David?

  I think he's having a time of his life.

• 1:12:46Speaker 00

  No, no, he's not. He, he's not. He's not laughing. When we were together... He used to enjoy everything. He used to smile more. He used to laugh more. That I assure you. You know, there was a moment when Trump had become president-elect. And I had said, I want, I don't want to go into DC. I'll be there every day for you if that's what you want. You want, I'm gonna be back in the city. You want me to bring you like a potato knish from Katz's Del. You want a dirty water dog, whatever you want. I'll get onto a train. I'll get into the car. I'll drive up. I don't care. Whatever you need, I'll be there. But I want to be personal attorney to the president.

• 1:13:27Speaker 00

  And I remember him turning around after he decided that Reince Priebus was gonna be his chief of staff. He says to Reince, "What role is Michael playing?" Because at first, he didn't want me to be on the outside. Trump likes familiarity. And he had no familiarity there. Reince Priebus was loading the place up with his people because he thought that he was gonna be able to make Trump into a puppet, a puppet president. And Trump likes-

• 1:13:54Patrick Bet-David?

  Well, he was wrong.

• 1:13:55Speaker 00

  Oh, wrong?

• 1:13:56Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:57Speaker 00

  Damn straight. That's why he got shit canned so fast.

• 1:13:59Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:00Speaker 00

  Trump likes familiarity. Unfortunately, he did allow me the job that I wanted.

• 1:14:08Patrick Bet-David?

  Maybe it was a test. Maybe he was testing you.

• 1:14:10Speaker 00

  Could be. But he said to Reince, "Find Michael the right position." In fact, he wanted me to be assistant deputy counsel.

• 1:14:20Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:21Speaker 00

  Under, what was his name? The lawyer. I visualize him. I, he was from the big Duane law firm. Anyway, "No, thank you, sir. I actually have some other ideas and ways that I would be able to protect you on the outside from all of this nonsense that we all know is gonna come." He said to Reince, "Let me be clear. You find Michael a job." This is his words, not mine. The only reason you're in that spot is because of him. I know you 10 seconds, I know him 10 years. Those are Trump's words. That was the loyalty. About me. That was the loyalty I expected.

• 1:15:03Speaker 00

  You're gonna listen to Reince Priebus? Who was dubbed in the office rancid penis? I mean, who the hell is listening to Reince Priebus? He did. And to whose detriment? Mine. By the way, my hope, my hope is that the president is actually listening to this podcast. Turns around and says, you know what? Yeah, I miss the guy too. Give me a call. He still has my cell number. It actually was once, it was once a Trump number.

• 1:15:36Patrick Bet-David?

  You know, he's a type of guy that would call.

• 1:15:38Speaker 00

  And I would take it.

• 1:15:40Patrick Bet-David?

  Have you tried?

• 1:15:40Speaker 00

  And I would take it.

• 1:15:41Patrick Bet-David?

  Have you tried calling?

• 1:15:42Speaker 00

  Nah, I can't do that.

• 1:15:43Patrick Bet-David?

  Why?

• 1:15:43Speaker 00

  It's, it can't.

• 1:15:44Patrick Bet-David?

  Why?

• 1:15:45Speaker 00

  Because maybe I will. Maybe I will.

• 1:15:47Patrick Bet-David?

  Can I tell you why, why, uh?

• 1:15:52Speaker 00

  I'm not 100% certain I know what I would even say at this point.

• 1:15:55Patrick Bet-David?

  I think neither one of you guys. It's just gonna be the conversation. You'll know within the first two seconds.

• 1:16:00Speaker 00

  You're probably right about that.

• 1:16:01Patrick Bet-David?

  You don't know until you make the call. But to me.

• 1:16:03Speaker 00

  You know what, I was also, by the way, not to interrupt you, you know what else also surprised me? My relationship with the kids. Especially Dawn. And then Ivanka and Eric as well. I mean, I sat on Eric's board. I got, I got canceled a long time ago for saying that too. Oh, Eric, you know, Eric Trump was stealing money from the charity for St. Jude's Church. I sat on that board, he didn't steal money from anybody. Okay, let me be crystal clear. Eric did not. Dawn? I saved Dawn in countless, countless scenarios. Ivanka? Incredibly close with her as well.

• 1:16:39Patrick Bet-David?

  Till today?

• 1:16:40Speaker 00

  No.

• 1:16:40Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay.

• 1:16:41Speaker 00

  And when I see her sometimes in the city? She turns around, looks the other way. And it kills me.

• 1:16:50Patrick Bet-David?

  That's the look I'm talking about.

• 1:16:52Speaker 00

  That's the same person who came to my apartment and I cooked my famous world-class lasagna for. And we were fighting on the floor like, like siblings for the last piece. Even though I'm the one who made it. Cause she wanted me to wrap it for her for, for work the next day. That's how much.

• 1:17:12Speaker 00

  And how significant a relationship that we had, all of us. And then not one of them to reach out, to turn around to say, I'm not gonna let dad do this to you. You know, I'll tell you an interesting story. I was sitting in my office, Ivanka's old office, on the 26th floor. And Don, Ivanka and Eric walk in. It was right after the launch, right after the very famous escalator scenario where he made comments about Mexico and Mexicans. Maybe two days or so after that, three days. And they turn around, they said to me,

• 1:17:57Speaker 00

  "You need to get dad to stop, to withdraw. He can't run for the presidency." Donald's sister, Judge Barry, called me and said, "Michael, what the hell are you doing?" I turned around and said, "Your honor, you're about the only one that Donald actually has any fear of." And he did. He was, his sister petrified him, you know? Not in the...

• 1:18:20Patrick Bet-David?

  Of course, I get it.

• 1:18:21Speaker 00

  Right, in a familial way.

• 1:18:22Patrick Bet-David?

  In the similar like the baseball coach guy.

• 1:18:24Speaker 00

  Damn straight.

• 1:18:25Patrick Bet-David?

  Right.

• 1:18:27Speaker 00

  They asked me to go speak to dad and get him to withdraw. I said, "No chance. He's never going to withdraw, you know it." If, you know, like, "Thanks to you," so their words, not mine. And if they want to be honest about it, they'll acknowledge it. "Thanks to you, the legacy that we're gonna be left won't be the Trump Organization, it'll be the Rump Organization." I said, "You're not, don't be so certain. Meanwhile, they're all kicking ass right now, all right? Thanks to the Rump Organization." Not one of them had the decency to pick up a phone and call. My daughter and Tiffany, as an example.

• 1:19:05Patrick Bet-David?

  I'm not surprised, though.

• 1:19:06Speaker 00

  Have been friends since they were in their early teens, went to college together.

• 1:19:11Patrick Bet-David?

  Are you surprised?

• 1:19:12Speaker 00

  I am.

• 1:19:12Patrick Bet-David?

  Why are you surprised?

• 1:19:13Speaker 00

  Because I would, because I would make that call.

• 1:19:16Patrick Bet-David?

  But you're not Trump. You're not Trump.

• 1:19:18Speaker 00

  I never said I was, though.

• 1:19:19Patrick Bet-David?

  No, no, that's why you would make the call. Because, you know, the, the, I'm not surprised at all.

• 1:19:26Speaker 00

  That the kids?

• 1:19:27Patrick Bet-David?

  I'm not surprised at all.

• 1:19:28Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:19:29Patrick Bet-David?

  And that, in my opinion, I could be wrong, and people have their own right to write the comment and say, you're so this. Totally get it. My opinion is, I'm not surprised, because that's the part. It's, it's why phrases like "ride or die", it's that phrase, it's that part where, hey, you know, it, it, it totally understand the relationship with all this stuff. You crossed the line with my dad, you're my enemy. It's a, you know, um.

• 1:19:56Speaker 00

  Did I cross the line with him, or did they cross the line with me?

• 1:19:59Patrick Bet-David?

  It doesn't matter.

• 1:20:00Speaker 00

  You're right, by the way. You gotta always stand by your family.

• 1:20:02Patrick Bet-David?

  But, but, but, but the part with-

• 1:20:04Speaker 00

  It doesn't mean it's not gonna hurt.

• 1:20:06Patrick Bet-David?

  No, no, you have the right to, I totally, and I feel the sincerity, I, you know, I totally feel the relationship. Makes me wanna try that lasagna, that-

• 1:20:13Speaker 00

  By the way-

• 1:20:14Patrick Bet-David?

  Guy that is a lasagna guy.

• 1:20:15Speaker 00

  World frickin' class.

• 1:20:17Patrick Bet-David?

  That good? Don't BS me, cuz I actually like las-

• 1:20:18Speaker 00

  I'll show you a photo.

• 1:20:19Patrick Bet-David?

  All right, okay. Okay, so maybe, maybe we gotta test that out here and see how it works out.

• 1:20:24Speaker 00

  Why, do you have a kitchen in the studio?

• 1:20:26Patrick Bet-David?

  We're down the street, we'll go cook it and, and get a feel for it, but, but going back, going back to it, going back to it to me is, um, you know, a, a leader, okay, a leader, a coach, a politician, a military leader, when do you think they stopped testing their generals?

• 1:20:45Speaker 00

  Never.

• 1:20:45Patrick Bet-David?

  That's the point. That's the point.

• 1:20:49Speaker 00

  Oh, I didn't say it the right way. Um, that would be a ne- never for a thousand?

• 1:20:53Patrick Bet-David?

  Never for a thousand, but what do you think it is for Trump? Even more, right? Okay, so to me, um-

• 1:21:00Speaker 00

  But you see, as the president-

• 1:21:02Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:03Speaker 00

  The way I see it, he's the most powerful man on the planet.

• 1:21:07Patrick Bet-David?

  Sure.

• 1:21:08Speaker 00

  And the most powerful man on the planet should fear nothing and nobody.

• 1:21:12Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, that's not how life works, though. No way.

• 1:21:14Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:21:14Patrick Bet-David?

  The most powerful man in the planet has the most enemies targeting him to destroy him. So, there is a, there's a layer where you go to sleep and you're around your friends and family, you're breaking bread.

• 1:21:29Speaker 00

  So then where do I sit? So where do I sit in the, in the living room? Do I sit, you know, as I used to, in the seat next to him, as I used to? Or now do I sit in the bathroom in the back with mush, right? Stop looking at the dice. Remember that from Bronx Tale?

• 1:21:45Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, of course. Of course. Chaz is a friend. That's a, that's a.

• 1:21:48Speaker 00

  He's so great, by the way.

• 1:21:49Patrick Bet-David?

  He's phenomenal.

• 1:21:50Speaker 00

  Phenomenal.

• 1:21:51Patrick Bet-David?

  He's phenomenal. Have you been to the show, the, the Bronx Tale show he does?

• 1:21:54Speaker 00

  No.

• 1:21:55Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, you, you've never.

• 1:21:56Speaker 00

  No, I could pretty much do the movie by heart, by the way.

• 1:21:58Patrick Bet-David?

  If he continues doing the one man show, go to it once.

• 1:22:01Speaker 00

  Where's it at?

• 1:22:02Patrick Bet-David?

  He does it all over. Broadway, New York, he does it all over. It's phenomenal.

• 1:22:06Speaker 00

  Chaz, I'm coming.

• 1:22:06Patrick Bet-David?

  Phenomenal. You gotta go see how it is. It's incredible. So, but, but to me, it's, that's your choice. Your choice is what level of pain do you want to tolerate to maintain that relationship long term?

• 1:22:20Speaker 00

  So you think I should actually make a call to the White House and ask to be seen?

• 1:22:24Patrick Bet-David?

  Uh, what's your outcome?

• 1:22:26Speaker 00

  I could either get a yes, which would make me happy.

• 1:22:28Patrick Bet-David?

  But what's your outcome?

• 1:22:30Speaker 00

  What's the reason for the visit?

• 1:22:31Patrick Bet-David?

  Yes.

• 1:22:31Speaker 00

  Well, twofold. One, something that I'm also being attacked by, I'm gonna say them again, the radical left lunatics that are lying. Michael wants a pardon.

• 1:22:44Patrick Bet-David?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:22:45Speaker 00

  Okay. Yeah, I would take a pardon, but I'm not asking for a pardon for me. I'm asking a pardon for 70 million Americans who are nonviolent felons here in America right now that are treated like second-class citizens. I call this, I actually wrote a letter, which I did send in, by the way, to the White House.

• 1:23:09Speaker 00

  I call it TEPO, T-E-P-O, Trump Emancipation Proclamation Order. It would give a second chance to 70 million nonviolent felons who have finished their sentence completely. No restitution, they, no supervised release, no home confinement, they are done. So there is no commutation of sentences. It is merely no longer being listed as a felon that prevents you from getting work, having a bank account, having the ability to reintegrate into society, which is exactly what they want. I have that in front of him. He would, you know, here's a question for you.

• 1:23:52Speaker 00

  And I do not diminish the disgusting part of America's history where slavery was rampant. You know how many slaves existed in America during slavery? Hmm. Do you know? Most people don't. Just under 3 million. 70 million Americans carry the stigma of felony convictions, that scarlet letter, bank accounts, employment, housing, etc. This would give them the ability. You know who I co-authored this with? A very longtime dear friend of mine, Jesse Jackson Jr.

• 1:24:35Speaker 00

  I've been friends with his father for decades, and through his father, I met Jesse Jr., who was a felon himself, former congressman. We co-authored this, and I sent it in. So if I had the opportunity to sit with my former boss, my former friend, who knows? Maybe 70 million Americans, mostly minority, like when I created, I created the National Diversity Coalition for Trump.

• 1:25:11Speaker 00

  Diversity. Bring back so that it's not an issue of, oh, Donald, you know, Donald is racist. Donald doesn't believe in diversity. It's not true. It's not true. Give me the ability within which to do this for 70 million Americans. So I would have that opportunity to sit with him. And then I would have the opportunity to look my old friend in the face and ask, is there maybe something privately you would like to say to me? Right? Maybe just between you and me, not for the cameras, not for, you know, not for media, for me. You think maybe you want to say something?

• 1:25:56Speaker 00

  What I went through, 51 days of solitary confinement, the first three days, no food, when they put me the second time in because I refused to waive my First Amendment constitutional right and not publish my first book, Disloyal? They put me in a freezer for about three hours. You know what it's like when you're so cold and you're chattering so hard, your teeth feel like they're going to fall out of your jaw? You think that that goes away? You think that's not a trigger for PTSD? Oh, I know I have it. I've had 20 different people, friends, family, whose wives, they're therapists. Like, how is it you're not seeing a therapist? And I was like, well, it's just, like many things, I just don't believe in it. It's just me. I believe people should see therapists.

• 1:26:40Speaker 00

  It's just not for me. I'm like, hmm, maybe you should.

• 1:26:45Speaker 07

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• 1:27:24Patrick Bet-David?

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• 1:27:40Patrick Bet-David?

  Who, uh, I think you should make that call. And I don't know what's gonna happen, but I think you should make that call. Uh, the, the risk he's gonna have, and, and I don't know if he cares. I actually think he's reached a status right now that, um, remember when, when, I don't know when it was? That 2019, 2020, that if you were a Trump ally, you were worried, am I gonna get sued? Am I gonna do this? Am I, people were afraid to be, you couldn't go anywhere wearing the MAGA stuff. Nowadays, people are like, accepted the fact that he got reelected. Don't get me wrong, there's still a lot of chaos behind it as well. Just two weeks ago, he called Elizabeth Warren. Said, hey, what do you think about the 10% credit card?

• 1:28:24Patrick Bet-David?

  You know, and she's like, I was shocked he called me.

• 1:28:26Speaker 00

  I got canceled for that one, too. I turned around and said, good for him.

• 1:28:29Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:30Speaker 00

  By the way, can I ask you this? So let's just say, let me go back to what people consider me to be that, you know, lefty, anti-Trump guy.

• 1:28:40Patrick Bet-David?

  Right.

• 1:28:41Speaker 00

  And I turn around and I say, you know what? Good for him for calling Elizabeth Warren. Good for him for having Chuck the schmuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries come to his office. By the way, I never liked either of them. Ever, not when I was doing my, and, and, you know, and on Midas, he'd be like, why do you always have to say that? I said, I, I just don't like them. I think that they're worthless, they're faux outrage and anger all the time with their fist. I, I just don't like them. I'm allowed not to like somebody, right? So we would laugh about it.

• 1:29:14Speaker 00

  Why does that make me bad? Because I turned around and I said, good for him for having fortitude to pick up a phone and to call somebody who has been, um, let's just say, less than complimentary?

• 1:29:26Patrick Bet-David?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:29:27Speaker 00

  Why does that make me a bad guy?

• 1:29:28Patrick Bet-David?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:29:29Speaker 00

  Why is everything that I say, somebody has to make a determination about the quality of my soul and character? I'm under this microscope from everybody. Everybody thinks they have a right to judge me. Why? There's only one person that's gonna be judging me. And that person's not sitting here on this planet. That I can assure you. So. Maybe people should learn to keep their judgments to themselves. Listen to the facts. Facts matter. Innuendo doesn't mean anything. Everybody has an opinion. Good. Now, take your opinion and keep it. Right? I don't know if I'm allowed to say the things on your podcast that I say on my own.

• 1:30:12Speaker 00

  Stick it up your ass. All right? I'm not interested in your opinion, even if it's positive towards me or negative. Just keep it to yourself. Just because you have an opinion doesn't mean you have to express it. And especially to those that are attacking me wildly every single day, shame on you. Shame on you. And the funny thing is, they all claim, they all claim to be these devout Christians. They're all devout Christians. Really? Think Jesus would say that? Let me be very clear. When I was in Otisville, despite being Jewish, I became very friendly with the deacon that was there, Deacon Davis. Truly a phenomenal man, much nicer than the rabbi that was there. No, no, no. Really, much, much, much nicer than the rabbi. He was a terrible human being. The deacon?

• 1:30:54Patrick Bet-David?

  The rabbi?

• 1:30:54Speaker 00

  The rabbi, terrible guy. The deacon couldn't be kinder, nicer, more caring for not just the inmates, but me particularly, right? Because he realized I was suffering. You know, there was a lot of anger and hatred. I was the highest, highest profiled inmate in the Bureau of Prison when I was there.

• 1:31:16Patrick Bet-David?

  Who was, who else was there with you?

• 1:31:18Speaker 00

  Well, who was there with me?

• 1:31:19Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:19Speaker 00

  Mike the Situation from Jersey Shore, Senator Dean Skelos, Billy McFarlane of Fire Festival.

• 1:31:28Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, Fire Festival, at his peak, yeah.

• 1:31:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, we had, we had.

• 1:31:32Patrick Bet-David?

  You did the thing with Ja Rule, I think, the big party, yeah.

• 1:31:34Speaker 00

  That's correct. Yeah. We had a couple of pretty significant notables. Joe Percoco, who was Andrew Cuomo's Chief of Staff. He ultimately had his conviction overturned. Good. Thank God. He's a great guy.

• 1:31:53Speaker 00

  There were some significant notables, but I was the highest profiled inmate in the Bureau of Prisons. In fact, I had to build my own fence.

• 1:32:01Patrick Bet-David?

  Let me ask this.

• 1:32:02Speaker 00

  I learned how to do a lot of things while I was there.

• 1:32:04Patrick Bet-David?

  I mean, the deacon, that's, that's a...

• 1:32:06Speaker 00

  He was the kindest.

• 1:32:09Patrick Bet-David?

  Respect.

• 1:32:09Speaker 00

  Respect, damn straight.

• 1:32:10Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:11Speaker 00

  There was also a, um, a nurse. She's a, um, that was, that was there, who also was beyond, beyond kind to me. Cause I, I have, um, blood pressure issues, believe it or not, uh, which I developed there. She would make sure that I was properly given my blood pressure medication, and then there were times where just the stress becomes overwhelming and, you know, um, she'd make sure. If it wasn't for her, I probably wouldn't be here today. I write about her in the book, too.

• 1:32:44Patrick Bet-David?

  Very cool. Respect.

• 1:32:45Speaker 00

  Respect is right.

• 1:32:46Patrick Bet-David?

  Respect. Respect for them. By the way, at what point, when you started working with the president, did you know he's gonna run for office?

• 1:32:53Patrick Bet-David?

  From OSHA?

• 1:32:53Speaker 00

  2011.

• 1:32:54Patrick Bet-David?

  2011?

• 1:32:55Speaker 00

  2011.

• 1:32:55Patrick Bet-David?

  What happened in 11?

• 1:32:56Speaker 00

  Oh, so, okay, here we go. Ready for this? So, to the, all the, to all the people who are maybe beginning to have a shred of compassion for me, right? Uh, 2011, I started a website. Let, let me go back, take it to the, I'm reading a newspaper, as I do, like he does every single day. And I'm reading the newspaper and there was a survey.

• 1:33:22Speaker 00

  "Who would you like to see run for the presidency in 2012 against Barack Obama?" "5% said Donald Trump." That expression on your face.

• 1:33:33Patrick Bet-David?

  2012.

• 1:33:33Speaker 00

  2011.

• 1:33:35Patrick Bet-David?

  2011.

• 1:33:37Speaker 00

  Time matters. Okay.

• 1:33:39Patrick Bet-David?

  How many people voted? Wa- was it a good, uh, sample, uh?

• 1:33:44Speaker 00

  To be honest with you, I don't remember, but it was about a thousand people.

• 1:33:46Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay.

• 1:33:47Speaker 00

  Whatever. It's a, it's a fair survey.

• 1:33:49Patrick Bet-David?

  Sure, yeah.

• 1:33:49Speaker 00

  And it was in the newspaper. So I rip it out. And he gets in. Now, mind you, this is, you know, before 8:00 AM. And I see he's in the office. "Hey, boss, wanna see something pretty frickin' cool?" He goes, "What do you got? What do you, what do you got?" And I turn around and I was like, um, "All right, check this out." And I hand it to him and I highlight it, so it brings his eyes directly to what? And he's like, "Huh." He goes, "What do you think?" I said, I think it'd be pretty freaking cool. He goes, you know, I'm kind of bored of all of this. How many more deals? How many more golf courses? How many more buildings? How many more licensing deals? You know, let, let, I'll let the kids do that.

• 1:34:32Speaker 00

  I was like, you know, we're in the middle of a couple right now, some pretty big ones like the Doral. Right? And he had bought the ones in, um, in Scotland and in Ireland, Duneberg. I was like, um, yeah. He goes, explore this. Congratulations. You got another job now, mind you. During the time period that I was with Trump, not only was I his personal attorney, consigliere, as they wanted to call me. I was on the board of the Miss Universe Organization. There were only three of us, Donald Weiselman and myself.

• 1:35:06Patrick Bet-David?

  Weiselman?

• 1:35:07Speaker 00

  Yes, the three of us were the board of Miss Universe, along with NBC.

• 1:35:10Patrick Bet-David?

  Sure.

• 1:35:10Speaker 00

  That co-owned it. I was co-president of Trump Productions, which was involved in The Apprentice and also other reality television. With a guy named Larry Glick, who runs golf.

• 1:35:24Speaker 00

  I sat on six different boards, uh, real estate, um, building boards where I was the treasurer. Cause I'm very, very sharp with a pencil, um, like insanely sharp.

• 1:35:38Speaker 00

  So I had plenty going on with that. And, um,

• 1:35:45Speaker 00

  it was, to say the least, another incredibly big job. So I meet this attorney out of Dallas. In fact, I still have the book. It's in a leather-bound, um, uh, three-ring notebook. Which I will

• 1:36:04Speaker 00

  give to his library on loan. I want to continue to own it. It's mine, right? But that set up the future.

• 1:36:12Patrick Bet-David?

  Is this a lawyer of Andy Beal or no relation to Beal?

• 1:36:15Speaker 00

  No relation to Andy Beal. He was a lawyer.

• 1:36:17Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay.

• 1:36:17Speaker 00

  Uh, he may actually work for Andy Beal. I don't know, but I was introduced to him. It's broken down into every single state and to every county who you need to speak to. It's the most thorough book. And then I ended up going to Iowa to learn about the first and call. We ultimately decided, let me rephrase that. Donald ultimately decided, I certainly concurred. We had negotiated another season for The Apprentice, where he was a guarantee of $60 million for that one season.

• 1:36:54Patrick Bet-David?

  Stop it.

• 1:36:55Speaker 00

  Don't stop. Truth.

• 1:36:57Patrick Bet-David?

  One season, 60 million.

• 1:36:58Speaker 00

  Respect.

• 1:36:59Patrick Bet-David?

  Beautiful.

• 1:37:00Speaker 00

  Say it.

• 1:37:00Patrick Bet-David?

  Good for him.

• 1:37:01Speaker 00

  Say it.

• 1:37:04Speaker 00

  Damn straight.

• 1:37:04Patrick Bet-David?

  Good for him.

• 1:37:05Speaker 00

  Damn straight. 60 mil. Here's Trump's line to me. Michael, no one walks away from Hollywood. Hollywood walks away from you. I can't walk away from it. And I was like, I wouldn't either, boss. Right? I wouldn't either. But he goes, if you stand with me, shoulder to shoulder in 2015, I give you my word, we're gonna do it. And from 2011 on, from the sweeps is when it was the day of the sweeps. He made the decision not to go in 2012 for the presidency.

• 1:37:40Speaker 00

  To 2015, we talked about it every single day. Plotting it out every single day.

• 1:37:47Patrick Bet-David?

  Plotting it or stuff like, what do you think about what he said? I wouldn't do this. Well, we'd do this. Was it that kind of conversation?

• 1:37:54Speaker 00

  Strategy.

• 1:37:54Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay.

• 1:37:55Speaker 00

  On everything.

• 1:37:56Patrick Bet-David?

  Such as? Give us examples.

• 1:37:58Speaker 00

  On everything. Okay. The war in Iran.

• 1:38:01Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:02Speaker 00

  One of the things that he turned around, he goes, what sort of an idiot. Sends your troops and we don't keep the oil. He goes, why are we not keeping the oil? He goes, Michael, have you ever heard of the adage, to the victor go the spoils? Why are we walking away from it? I said, I don't know. He's an idiot. So he's like, I'd keep it. I said, you do realize then we'd have to surround it with the military? He goes, so what? To the victor go the spoils. Just one example. These are all, by the way, if Trump would call in right now, he'd turn around and tell you, yeah, I did say that. I absolutely did. These are the sort of things that we did. I bring it back, the weave, to when I turn around and I was saying about that article,

• 1:38:47Speaker 00

  about the 5%. So I started something called shouldtrumprun.com. Did it on my own with a guy named Stu, funded it, the whole bit. Within, I don't know, 72 hours, 10 million people responded.

• 1:39:04Patrick Bet-David?

  Stop it.

• 1:39:05Speaker 00

  Don't tell me, stop it, respect.

• 1:39:06Patrick Bet-David?

  Go to shouldtrumprun.com.

• 1:39:08Speaker 00

  That's right. Shouldtrumprun.com.

• 1:39:10Patrick Bet-David?

  Wow. 72 hours.

• 1:39:12Speaker 00

  72 hours. It was like.

• 1:39:13Patrick Bet-David?

  How did you advertise it? How did it get out?

• 1:39:15Speaker 00

  I don't know. I just put it out there, made a couple announcements on like television, things like that. I used my relationships in media.

• 1:39:23Patrick Bet-David?

  Go to images? Go to images? Just go to images, seeing which one it was? Uh, okay, it's not up because it's been many years. Okay, so shouldtrumprun.com.

• 1:39:34Speaker 00

  I'm sure there are articles if you go into that.

• 1:39:36Patrick Bet-David?

  Go to news rap? Go back and go to news. 2019, 2018. Go to that one, the second one right there. And then see if the domain is there. Shouldtrumprun.com, right there. Months earlier, Michael Cohen had helped set up a website called shouldtrumprun.com. It's a long time ago. Cohen also traveled to explore the protocol. Interesting. So you're behind, so you're behind closed doors, checking the terrain to see if there's a appetite.

• 1:40:06Speaker 00

  Interest and appetite. Amen to that. And I come back to him and I said, boss, you're much more popular than you think. I got that look, you know, the look, right? Perched lips, the eyes sort of squint. He's so happy. And his happiness in those days made me happy.

• 1:40:31Speaker 00

  And we laughed our asses off. We turned around, he goes, can you imagine if we pull it off? Can you imagine? I'm like, yeah. And I think you can do it. Don't say that, you're jinxing it. I was like, I'm not jinxing shit. I'm like, this was the conversations that I had. Which again, brings us all the way back to the beginning of this podcast. When Todd Blanch asked me, you hate Trump. No, I don't.

• 1:40:59Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:00Speaker 00

  No, I don't. There were a bunch of questions Todd Blanch probably could have asked me during that trial.

• 1:41:05Patrick Bet-David?

  Sure.

• 1:41:06Speaker 00

  That probably would have gotten it dismissed, or I should say, a hung jury. But that's neither here nor there.

• 1:41:14Patrick Bet-David?

  Very interesting. So you were involved fully behind, was he a superstitious guy? Is he a big time superstitious guy?

• 1:41:20Speaker 00

  He is superstitious.

• 1:41:21Patrick Bet-David?

  That's sports, that's baseball, by the way.

• 1:41:22Speaker 00

  He's superstitious.

• 1:41:23Patrick Bet-David?

  Baseball fans, baseball players are superstitious, the highest.

• 1:41:26Speaker 00

  Could you imagine, you see them going like this at like a Yankees game, right? You know, when it's like a three and two in the, you know, the ninth inning or something?

• 1:41:36Patrick Bet-David?

  Baseball is like the ultimate superstitions.

• 1:41:38Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 1:41:38Patrick Bet-David?

  What else about him behind closed doors that you appreciate? Where you're like, you know, as much as I see, like what were rules? There's certain non-negotiables I have that when I do business, I'm curious. What were some of his non-negotiables? Like, hey, Michael, we're never doing business with that guy. Was it ever things like never, we'll never, we'll never do this? Or was it never, okay?

• 1:41:59Speaker 00

  Never was not a word.

• 1:42:01Patrick Bet-David?

  Never was not a word?

• 1:42:02Speaker 00

  No.

• 1:42:03Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay.

• 1:42:04Speaker 00

  There's nothing that is never to him. Just because, like when we tried to buy, I was involved in that, tried to buy the Buffalo Bills. We were in negotiation, we went, we met with the NFL. Reviewed the documentation behind it in order to put in an offer.

• 1:42:26Speaker 00

  I knew we weren't gonna get it because.

• 1:42:28Patrick Bet-David?

  Politics or?

• 1:42:29Speaker 00

  No, it wasn't politics. It was Terry Pagula, who is a native, ended up buying it and he outbid Trump by like $700 million. I mean, he had just made billions off of fracking and he is a local Buffalo native and there was, he outbid everybody, right? Trump by like 700 million and.

• 1:42:55Patrick Bet-David?

  Can you pull up the Sky Terry? I want to know. Oh, there it is. Terry Pagula. So zoom in a little bit. He owns the Bills and NHL team as well, Buffalo Sabres?

• 1:43:03Speaker 00

  He owns the Buffalo Sabres as well.

• 1:43:06Patrick Bet-David?

  What kind of money does he have?

• 1:43:07Speaker 00

  Seven billion.

• 1:43:07Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, he's a seven billion guy?

• 1:43:09Speaker 00

  Now he's, now he's a pitcher compared to Trump.

• 1:43:13Patrick Bet-David?

  Well, I mean, you don't know the name, so you.

• 1:43:16Speaker 00

  Oh, I do. By the way, interestingly.

• 1:43:17Patrick Bet-David?

  The average person doesn't know Terrence Pagula.

• 1:43:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, okay. Let me give you a little factoid. You know who his daughter is? Jessica Pagula, the tennis star.

• 1:43:26Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:43:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:43:27Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so now I know his daughter.

• 1:43:29Speaker 00

  So you know who the richest one in tennis is?

• 1:43:31Patrick Bet-David?

  She is.

• 1:43:33Patrick Bet-David?

  Billionaire Jessica Pagula playing against, there you go, Buffalo, New York, Boca Raton.

• 1:43:40Speaker 00

  That's right.

• 1:43:40Patrick Bet-David?

  So they live down here? They live in Boca?

• 1:43:42Speaker 00

  They live everywhere.

• 1:43:43Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay.

• 1:43:43Speaker 00

  You know, it's seven billion. When you have seven billion plus dollars, you can live wherever the hell you want.

• 1:43:47Patrick Bet-David?

  That's actually a very good point. That's a very good point. When you, when you have that kind of money.

• 1:43:50Speaker 00

  Ready?

• 1:43:51Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:51Speaker 00

  Respect.

• 1:43:51Patrick Bet-David?

  Respect.

• 1:43:54Patrick Bet-David?

  So it's very obvious, Michael, from the, I'm not gonna lie to you. I had no idea where the conversation would go. I'm like, you know, when you and I talked, we talked the.

• 1:44:03Speaker 00

  Three weeks ago?

• 1:44:03Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, but the first time we talked, when was the first time?

• 1:44:06Speaker 00

  Oh, my God. The first time we talked, I think, was like two years ago.

• 1:44:10Patrick Bet-David?

  What was it about? What did we talk about? Was it Michael Wolff? What was it about when you and I spoke?

• 1:44:15Speaker 00

  No, I think it was about my second book, Revenge.

• 1:44:18Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay.

• 1:44:18Speaker 00

  May have, may have just come out. Both New York Times bestsellers, Disloyal number one, Revenge number six. Thank you very little. Yeah.

• 1:44:28Speaker 00

  There was a question or an issue there that piqued your curiosity and I remember you reached out, but.

• 1:44:38Speaker 00

  You then reached out, or somebody reached out in regard to my Michael Wolff interview on my Mea Culpa podcast.

• 1:44:44Patrick Bet-David?

  Right, right.

• 1:44:45Speaker 00

  And something, again, sparked an interest.

• 1:44:51Speaker 00

  And I don't remember if we had a lengthy conversation, or maybe it was just by text message, but then oh, about a week or so ago.

• 1:44:59Patrick Bet-David?

  Week ago, yeah.

• 1:45:00Speaker 00

  After I started getting canceled, that was last Friday.

• 1:45:04Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:05Speaker 00

  You reached out and, to be honest, I was thankful that you did, because, you know, it's a very troubling place to live, between two polar opposites.

• 1:45:23Speaker 00

  It's sad that you can't have an opinion today without being brutally beaten by one side or both sides.

• 1:45:36Patrick Bet-David?

  Let me ask you, if, let's just say, the visual, the visual is, you call, they accept the call, you talk, you go to the White House, there's a picture of you and him.

• 1:45:49Speaker 00

  So what?

• 1:45:50Patrick Bet-David?

  What happens next to you?

• 1:45:51Speaker 00

  I could give two shits.

• 1:45:52Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, that's good.

• 1:45:53Speaker 00

  How about that one?

• 1:45:54Patrick Bet-David?

  That's good.

• 1:45:55Speaker 00

  Especially if I'm successful.

• 1:45:57Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:58Speaker 00

  In that $70 million Trump Emancipation Proclamation Order.

• 1:46:02Patrick Bet-David?

  Yep.

• 1:46:03Speaker 00

  70 million Americans, I'm willing to take the hits from these asses, these radical left maniacs, these liars. I'm okay to take the hit on that. By the way, one of the loudest detractors against me is a felon himself, a nonviolent felon, that will benefit from that Trump Emancipation Proclamation Order. That is historic. That is legacy stuff. When you can fix the lives of 70 million Americans, 7-0, it's not just them, what about their families? What about their spouses? What about their children? Why should, if the judge gave you a three years, as they did to me, three years in, three years out, six-year sentence, and you finish it. Judge didn't turn around and say, "You're a felon for life."

• 1:46:47Speaker 00

  Why can I not have, isn't this country a country of second chances? Isn't this a country that's supposed to want to see reintegration into society, proper reintegration? That's exactly what this does. And just imagine the favorabilities now.

• 1:47:06Speaker 00

  He already has the Republican Party.

• 1:47:08Patrick Bet-David?

  What was the thing he did in 2018? The first act, that Van Jones showed up to the White House? And he was standing behind Trump? You know which one I'm talking about? You know which one I'm talking about? They did something for second chances.

• 1:47:22Speaker 00

  It was called the Second Chance Act.

• 1:47:24Patrick Bet-David?

  Is that what it was called? Second Chance Act? The First Step Act? Zoom in. Formerly incarcerated, reenter society, transform 715. 2018 President Donald Trump signed the Act and acted several changes in the US federal criminal aim that, I can't see what that word is.

• 1:47:42Speaker 00

  Reforming federal prisons and sentencing laws. In order to reduce recidivism.

• 1:47:47Patrick Bet-David?

  Got it.

• 1:47:47Speaker 00

  Decreasing federal inmate population. Basically, what that was, was sort of the decriminalization of marijuana and other...

• 1:47:57Patrick Bet-David?

  How different? So that's misdemeanors. You're saying felonies?

• 1:48:00Speaker 00

  Correct.

• 1:48:01Patrick Bet-David?

  To try to get back into the system?

• 1:48:02Speaker 00

  Correct. No, no, no. These are people who have already done their time. This is taking away the stigma of having a felony conviction. Like, it's impossible to get a bank account. It's impossible to get a credit card. We're a cashless society right now, or as close to cashless as you can get. So now you have to go to one of these third parties. You gotta constantly take cash and re-up whatever your credit card is that you're using, your debit card. Why? Why? Why should a felon? I don't care who that felon is, as long as it's nonviolent, that would fall into TPO? Why should you not be able to open up a savings account? Or a checking account? You can only spend what's in there, right?

• 1:48:46Speaker 00

  There's no fraud that they could commit. So this TPO Act? My estimation would significantly change. And I'm gonna get attacked for this shit again, right? By the radical left. Why are you doing anything to help Trump? Why are you doing anything to help Republicans? You're a Democrat. Been Democrat my whole life. Right? Do you know when I was the vice chair of the RNC? I was the vice chair. There were only four of us. Led by Steve Wynn. Great guy. It's another one that was very hurtful. You know, we were very close. And as a direct result of what happened...

• 1:49:23Speaker 00

  They went with the power. By the way, respect, understand it. But they did. Doesn't mean it doesn't hurt, right? A lot of these guys who I was very close with. But I was the vice chair of the RNC Finance Committee. I was a Democrat.

• 1:49:39Patrick Bet-David?

  You voted for Obama in 08? Didn't you, you're, you're, you, did you vote for Obama in 08?

• 1:49:44Speaker 00

  I did.

• 1:49:44Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, you did. Yeah. So that's pretty wild to have that. So you're sitting there while you're a Democrat.

• 1:49:49Speaker 00

  Do you know how many times that I had conversations with Trump about Obama? He would get angry at me. But here's something that people don't know about Trump. And I wish and I pray that many of the enablers, the sycophants, the cabinet, right, would tune into your podcast and hear these words. Trump doesn't want you to turn around and to be a bobblehead. He doesn't want you to agree with him. He doesn't care if you do or you don't. He's gonna do what he wants anyway. He wants to hear your real thoughts. I was somebody who would push back with him on a regular basis.

• 1:50:31Speaker 00

  And I would say, you know, boss, I see where you're going with this. But you think maybe we can take a different route? One that doesn't seem so caustic? One that does, let's all acknowledge, for example, we all want strong borders. Would you acknowledge you want strong borders?

• 1:50:48Patrick Bet-David?

  Sure.

• 1:50:48Speaker 00

  Would you acknowledge Trump's adage? A country without borders, quite frankly, isn't a country? Those are his words, not mine.

• 1:50:56Patrick Bet-David?

  Sure, I'm there as well.

• 1:50:57Speaker 00

  Okay, you acknowledge that?

• 1:50:58Patrick Bet-David?

  I do.

• 1:50:58Speaker 00

  Okay. I think it's also fair to say that ICE or having guys with masks, no identification, no names, no ID numbers with AR-15s, many of whom are not properly trained, 47 days is certainly, in my estimation, not enough. I would like to see ICE stand down. I'm not saying don't guard a federal building if you think it's under assault. I'm just saying, there's no need to ever turn around, put your hands on a woman and throw her to the ground. Simply because she's filming, simply because she's blowing a whistle. Again, you may think differently. Many of your listeners may think differently. It's my opinion, right?

• 1:51:43Speaker 00

  I don't put my hands on women, alright? And I don't believe that these guys should do it either. Doesn't mean we can't get to the same ultimate goal, which is strong borders, which is knowing every single person who's coming into this country and residing here. I think it's all fair to say, none of us want, for example, MS-13 in this country, not in our neighborhoods, not in this country. We don't want

• 1:52:06Patrick Bet-David?

  You'd be surprised when you say none of us want. What do you do when the borders are wide open? Who do you know who comes in?

• 1:52:12Speaker 00

  That's the whole point.

• 1:52:13Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, I mean, when you keep the border, when you say what you're saying, I have a rebuttal to that. One to me is, why didn't Minnesota cooperate? Why doesn't the local and the state police cooperate and send the reports to the government? Why doesn't LA and California cooperate? Why doesn't Maine, Chicago, Illinois? You can cooperate. If you don't cooperate, so what do I do? Don't send anybody there to not protect the people? I, it's my responsibility to protect the number two is...

• 1:52:38Speaker 00

  Well, it's actually really the governor's primary responsibility. Should they have come to the White House? By the way.

• 1:52:47Patrick Bet-David?

  He made the phone call. What did Trump do? When he made the phone call, he picked it up, and what did Trump do? Trump's a reasonable guy. He came out of his way to do what? Hey, tell me what you need, we're gonna come help you out. Did you see when Tim Walz announced that?

• 1:52:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:53:00Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, it was all over the place. So for Trump even tweeted about it, saying, "We spoke, he sounds reasonable, we're on the same page, we're gonna work together." Because to him, the American people are first. And in regards to the women, is, if I'm ICE, if I'm a cop, and you're not following my orders, am I supposed to say, "Don't put your hands on a woman"? You're asking to follow orders. If you do, do. If you don't, I have to do what I have to do, protect. It's a very complicated issue here, Michael.

• 1:53:30Speaker 00

  It's complicated, however. However, what was she doing? Filming? A First Amendment-protected constitutional right? Alright, there was no reason...

• 1:53:44Speaker 00

  You know, you know, the old expression, you know, um, one bad apple spoils the bunch. I am never going to denigrate someone who puts on the uniform, not the blue, not our military, ever. Ever. But then there's always the bad guys. There's always, like in the movie, like in the movie Stand By Me, one bad apple spoils the bunch. What about three or five rotten to the fricking core?

• 1:54:09Patrick Bet-David?

  And by the way, sometimes.

• 1:54:10Speaker 00

  It happens.

• 1:54:11Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 1:54:12Speaker 00

  And for anybody to turn around, right? So, thank you for acknowledging that because there are bad people in everything.

• 1:54:18Patrick Bet-David?

  For sure.

• 1:54:19Speaker 00

  That doesn't mean that I should be, um, you know, taken apart. It shouldn't mean that. It just means that you have to keep an eye because especially you have two Americans who were killed. Who died? Who died unnecessarily, unnecessarily. Nobody was a threat.

• 1:54:41Patrick Bet-David?

  Same with DC, same with what happened in DC and how he cleaned up the streets in DC.

• 1:54:44Speaker 00

  By the way, how about, how about that poor, that, that poor, um, what do you call it? A agent, um, ICE agent?

• 1:54:49Patrick Bet-David?

  Right.

• 1:54:50Speaker 00

  Who was executed?

• 1:54:51Patrick Bet-David?

  Right.

• 1:54:51Speaker 00

  Why? Why? We have a problem in this country.

• 1:54:55Patrick Bet-David?

  But, but, but that's the sacrifice. That's the risk that comes with that job. Nobody chooses that job not knowing their job.

• 1:55:03Speaker 00

  Civilians.

• 1:55:03Patrick Bet-David?

  No, those are two, that's why I'm isolating the job of this person and we're talking civilians. No.

• 1:55:07Speaker 00

  By the way, can I get some more coffee?

• 1:55:09Patrick Bet-David?

  Absolutely.

• 1:55:10Speaker 00

  This, by the way, nothing for nothing, but this conversation, right? Requires high octane. You require a high octane, Patrick.

• 1:55:17Patrick Bet-David?

  Rob, would you mind having somebody grab some coffee, please? No, no, it's totally fine. They'll get it for you. By the way, with, with the things that's going on with.

• 1:55:24Speaker 00

  Are we still on?

• 1:55:25Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, we're still on. They're still recording.

• 1:55:26Speaker 00

  So, sorry about that, folks. It's like, you know, you get a little bit parched.

• 1:55:29Patrick Bet-David?

  No, no, it's totally fine.

• 1:55:30Speaker 00

  Patrick is tough, man.

• 1:55:31Patrick Bet-David?

  No, it's totally fine.

• 1:55:32Speaker 00

  And you write wingers.

• 1:55:34Patrick Bet-David?

  So, uh, what do you think when, when all of a sudden Trump is like, "Yeah, we need Greenland. It's national security. We need it." "Yeah, Cuba, you know, we'll see. We'll see what's gonna happen." "Venezuela, hey, you know, boats, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven." "Mother Earth's been captured, middle of the night." "What do you think about when he's doing what he's doing?" "How many of these things that you're seeing happening?" "He talked about then that you're like, 'Yeah, that's been part of his strategy.'" "How many of it, how many of it is, 'Nope, it's just off the cuff. He thinks it's a good idea. He executes.'"

• 1:56:06Speaker 00

  Okay, so Venezuela was never a topic that we talked about, not in 2011, not in 2015.

• 1:56:11Patrick Bet-David?

  Even with the oil stuff, so?

• 1:56:13Speaker 00

  That, that was different. That was Iran.

• 1:56:15Patrick Bet-David?

  No, no, I know what I'm saying. It's Venezuela, Western Hemisphere, oil. Okay, got it.

• 1:56:19Speaker 00

  Never talked about it. Iran, he would talk about. Barack Obama's birth certificate, we talked about, uh, a lot. Let, let me be crystal clear on something. Venezuela was never part of this. I have issues with whoever it is that is guiding him on this... Uh, how do you call it? This, um, boondoggle? Thank you so much.

• 1:56:45Patrick Bet-David?

  Thank you.

• 1:56:45Speaker 00

  This boondoggle, as far as I see it.

• 1:56:50Patrick Bet-David?

  Did you say boondoggle?

• 1:56:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:56:51Patrick Bet-David?

  This the second time that word's been used in the last two days?

• 1:56:54Speaker 00

  Sorry about that.

• 1:56:54Patrick Bet-David?

  No, it's, it's good.

• 1:56:56Speaker 00

  Why do I say that? First and foremost, fentanyl doesn't come from Venezuela.

• 1:57:07Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay.

• 1:57:07Speaker 00

  Right? That's his own FBI, his own intelligence agencies are telling him. Or should be telling him. That's not where fentanyl comes from. Fentanyl comes from China, and the bulk of it comes from China through Mexico. That's not Michael Cohen making assertions. That's facts that have been provided by his intelligence agencies. So when you blow up an 18-foot aluminum boat that has the capacity of 80 miles, you would need to refuel that, I don't know, 112 times in order to get anywhere near US land? What's on those boats? Well, potentially cocaine.

• 1:57:52Speaker 00

  Definitively marijuana, that's already been proven, and definitively fish. Because there are a couple of those boats that were fishermen. I have a real problem with that double strike, right? I have a problem with it.

• 1:58:09Speaker 07

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• 1:59:08Speaker 00

  It's a difficult operation in and of itself. I'm trying to understand exactly what the purpose of that military operation is. Is it regime change? If it's regime change, okay, that's a whole new conversation, Patrick, for you and me. It's a whole new conversation. I'm not opposed to regime change. In fact, the woman who picked me up yesterday from the airport, and I engaged in a rather interesting conversation. She's from Brazil. She would love, love Trump to invade Brazil and to get rid of the gangs that are destroying her country. Sao Paulo nightmare.

• 1:59:54Speaker 00

  The killings nightmare. She would love him to do the exact same thing.

• 1:59:58Patrick Bet-David?

  This is who? This is a friend?

• 1:59:59Speaker 00

  This is the woman who drove me yesterday from the airport.

• 2:00:02Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, got it. She's telling you this?

• 2:00:04Speaker 00

  She's telling me the story. How amazing is that?

• 2:00:07Patrick Bet-David?

  Well, I mean, you gotta think about because what Alexandre de Moraes and Lula did.

• 2:00:11Speaker 00

  Oh, could you say that again?

• 2:00:12Patrick Bet-David?

  Alexandre de Moraes.

• 2:00:13Speaker 00

  You sound like the guy from like the Modelo commercial.

• 2:00:17Patrick Bet-David?

  Have you seen this guy? Have you seen what he looks like?

• 2:00:18Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 2:00:19Patrick Bet-David?

  He is like a legit.

• 2:00:23Speaker 00

  Oh, he's a gangster.

• 2:00:23Patrick Bet-David?

  He's a gangster. No, he's a legit gangster. They, they, they control the Supreme Court. They control Congress. They control Senate like 80 to 20, 90 to 10, the, the level of control that they have. And now there's a young guy, Nicholas Fejera, I don't know if you're following that guy or not. He's 30 years old. He's probably, he, he's probably going to be saving Brazil. The guy is so capable, talented and loved.

• 2:00:46Speaker 00

  Unless they take him out.

• 2:00:47Patrick Bet-David?

  Unless they take him out.

• 2:00:48Speaker 00

  And that was her fear.

• 2:00:49Patrick Bet-David?

  So watch this. This Nicholas guy, Nicholas Fejera, right there. Fejera. Okay. J, go to F E J. If you go to F E J, hang on, let me pull them up right now.

• 2:01:05Patrick Bet-David?

  This guy, when you see him, you won't believe how many Instagram followers he has and how much love he has from Brazil.

• 2:01:14Speaker 00

  Nicholas, can you follow me, please, on my YouTube?

• 2:01:16Patrick Bet-David?

  There you go.

• 2:01:17Speaker 00

  My Instagram?

• 2:01:18Patrick Bet-David?

  Can you, can you?

• 2:01:19Speaker 00

  I've seen him.

• 2:01:19Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, he is a talent.

• 2:01:21Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 2:01:22Patrick Bet-David?

  A gifted talent. Rob, can you pull up his Instagram account just to show he's been doing a march in Brazil on his own? Look how many followers he's got at 30 years old. 20 million followers, 21 million followers. Go a little bit lower, Rob. Okay, you see that video to the top left? That got 9.3 million likes. Can you click on it? How many views did he get, Rob? If you click on the view, if you click on a 9.3 on the bottom, it'll tell you. That clip that he posted.

• 2:01:50Patrick Bet-David?

  Uh, it's not showing you. That clip, I believe, got 300 million views.

• 2:01:54Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 2:01:55Patrick Bet-David?

  On Instagram.

• 2:01:56Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 2:01:57Patrick Bet-David?

  He is loved, admired. So Brazil, a lot of Brazilians, similar to Venezuela. Uh, the difference is, you know.

• 2:02:03Speaker 00

  I have family loose in Sao Paulo.

• 2:02:05Patrick Bet-David?

  You do?

• 2:02:05Speaker 00

  I do, yeah.

• 2:02:06Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah. I was there last year. I was there to, uh, uh, go and visit with Jair Bolsonaro, and it was an incredible experience. The people are some of the most amazing people. We did a three and a half hour interview, and in the moment, in the middle of the podcast, while we're doing the interview, reports come, he's getting arrested, he had to leave. When the, when the interview's going.

• 2:02:24Speaker 00

  And that's why she wants a regime change there too. But here's the problem with that. And I said to her, are we really wanting America to become the police of the world?

• 2:02:35Speaker 00

  While I acknowledge Brazil is problematic, there's a lot of places that are problematic.

• 2:02:40Patrick Bet-David?

  It's a very good debate. I think it's a very good debate.

• 2:02:42Speaker 00

  It's a fair debate.

• 2:02:42Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, I think it's a very fair debate to have.

• 2:02:45Speaker 00

  But you know what? Her belief is that only one person who actually has the balls big enough to do it.

• 2:02:52Patrick Bet-David?

  She's right.

• 2:02:53Speaker 00

  By the way, I didn't disagree with her. Well, for two reasons. One, she was driving kind of fast.

• 2:02:57Patrick Bet-David?

  Did she know who you were, or no?

• 2:02:58Speaker 00

  I'm not sure. I don't think so.

• 2:03:00Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, got it.

• 2:03:00Speaker 00

  I really don't think so. But she was driving a little quick, so I didn't want to get her all excited. So I just agreed with her.

• 2:03:05Patrick Bet-David?

  She's not wrong. I mean, you know, I was born and raised in Iran, and a lot of people in Iran are wondering what's gonna happen with Iran. And a lot of Iranians know there's only one guy that can help them be free, and it's him. And, you know, he's already sent, what is it? Abraham, is it the Lincoln that's on its way, 5,800 soldiers, and, uh, they're right outside. I think he moved Lincoln.

• 2:03:27Speaker 00

  What's the chance that he'll turn around and make like the USS Michael?

• 2:03:32Patrick Bet-David?

  Michael? USS Michael?

• 2:03:33Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:03:34Patrick Bet-David?

  I don't know. Probably less than a 0% chance of that happening. I mean, I think, let's start off with, you know, the first call before we go making those requests. But anyways, Michael, uh, it's, uh, I've really enjoyed this. This was great.

• 2:03:49Speaker 00

  Is it what you thought it was gonna be?

• 2:03:51Patrick Bet-David?

  Yes, I was walking this morning and I'm doing my workout and I'm like, I, I, I think this is gonna be a good conversation. I think this is gonna be a good conversation. And let's see what's gonna happen. There was a percentage of me, I'm like, you know, i- is he gonna come and try to make us, you know, be a, a spectacle and do this? 10% chance of me, I'm like, maybe he's gonna do that. But I have to tell you, I really enjoyed the conversation.

• 2:04:18Speaker 00

  As, as did I.

• 2:04:19Patrick Bet-David?

  I really enjoyed the conversation. Uh, I think you were fair in areas, you're giving your answers and the audience gets to decide. And I'm sure, you know, a lot of people on your side are going to hate that you did this today. And I'm sure a lot of people on my side are gonna sit there and say, why the hell would you have him on? But I'm certain anybody that watched the whole thing is gonna say, I re- really enjoyed this conversation. I'm certain of it. I'm certain anybody at the end is gonna say, he was, uh, vulnerable, he was honest, he was transparent and, you know what? Let's see what happens next.

• 2:04:50Speaker 00

  And I'll keep you posted on that phone.

• 2:04:51Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, you sure, you make sure you make that phone call.

• 2:04:53Speaker 00

  You know I will.

• 2:04:54Patrick Bet-David?

  Don't ask for the change, uh, of the name of the ship. I don't think that's a good idea, but all the other stuff, go ahead and do it.

• 2:04:59Speaker 00

  Deal.

• 2:05:00Patrick Bet-David?

  Really enjoy the body.

• 2:05:01Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 2:05:01Patrick Bet-David?

  All the best. Take care everybody. God bless. Bye bye, bye bye.

• 2:05:04Speaker 00

  Hey, Michael Cohen here. Look, you all know who I am. Donald Trump's former personal attorney and fixer. Lot of things have taken place over the years. Lot of questions need to be answered. Well, you, you may have a lot of questions. So do me a favor. Anytime you wanna ask me a question, feel free to reach out to me on the neck.

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